EEN GESPREK MET BRAZILIAANS INDIAANS LEIDER AILTON KRENAK door ALANN DE VUYST

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KKN DNPK\UDKS IKP DN@DJNKNGKD@K\ JDGPMN H\KNJH

_dkfdk|' kkn rjj| e|jciknpkn ujn fkp dnpk|udks ikp Jdgpmn H|knjh' qpdafpk| kn amõ|`dnjpm| ujn `k[.N.D. &[ndám `jq Njãûkq Dn`dcknjq$ ikp kpkg dn Qám Rj{gm qpj`' ckumk|` mr :5 @kakilk| :464`mm| Jgjnn @k U{tqp.

\mn` :;.12 { qpjrp Jdgpmn H|knjh fkp hjnpmm|cklm{s ujn `k [ND ldnnkn. Fdo fkkep ik kkn {{| gjpkn sjafpkn. Fdo dq kn k|c `|{h lkzkp ijn ijj| ijjhpk pmaf p{qqkn jg zdon jeqr|jhkn nmc kukn pdo` umm| ido. Jdgpmn' 15 ojj| m{`' hmip ido muk| jgq kkn ujqplk|j`kn ijn kn fdo fkkep kkn mnckgmekgdohk ijcnkpdqafk {dpqp|jgdnc. _don p|k` dq zm zkhk| jgq zdon qpkudck fjn``|{h. Kkn ijn ikp afj|dqij. Ikp k|nqpdck lgdh u|jjcp fdo ik umm| skghk m|cjndqjpdk dh sk|h dn Lkgcdè. _mn`k| idon kk|qpk u|jjc je pk sjafpkn lkcdnp fdo ujnzkge muk| `k [ND. Ijj| kk|qp s|doep fdo zdon mckn {dp mi`jp fdo lkzm|c` dq muk| zdon pdknoj|dck `mafpk| `dk mr `jp mcknlgdh dn \dm kkn mrk|jpdk imkp mn`k|cjjn.Uk|umgcknq pmmnp fdo ik knhkgk empm—q ujn fkp Qjjid umgh {dp Edngjn`' ldo sdk fdo umm| kkn mngjncq sk|` {dpcknm`dc`. Fdo |kdq`k `jj|nj `mm| Qajn`dnjudè mi zdaf kkn lkkg` pk um|ikn ujn f{n lkqafjudnc.

Jdgpmn

) ‖@k [ND fkkep pmp `mkg u|dkn`qafjr pk qg{dpkn kn kkn ljn` pk gkcckn ikp jggk dnfkkiqkumghkn muk|jg pk| sk|kg`. Sk sk|hkn n{ jg pdkn ojj| qjikn jjn mnk kdckn |j`kn dn L|jdgdè'sjj|mn`k| kkn \jj` `dk mijj| kuknpokq :62 dnfkkiqk njpdkq uk|pkcknsmm|`dcp. Pmkn k mukkgkpndkèn ldo kghjj| fj``kn' umn`kn sk fkp lkgjnc|doh mi umghk|kn l{dpkn L|jdgdè kkn uk|lmn` pkqg{dpkn' mj. Dn Jdè' Je|dhj' `k kdgjn`kn dn `k Qpdggk Makjjn' `k Edgdrrdonkn' Dn`mnkqdè' Cmj kn Pjfdpd.@k {dpsdqqkgdnc sjq sk`k|do`q. Sdo qp{|kn mnk jiljqqj`k{|q njj| cdn`k| kn sdqqkgkndnem|ijpdk {dp. Dn _{d`)Jik|dhj kn K{|mrj don cknmkc dnfkkiqk umghk|kn `dk mmh f{n lkqpk `mknmi f{n kcok pk h|dockn dn `k rmgdpdkh kn kamnmidk ujn f{n kdckn gjn`. _m imkpkn mnk uk|kkn`kh|jafpkn imckgdoh ijhkn `jp sk dnugmk` h|dockn dn `k dnqpdp{pkn mjgq \kck|dnckn' `k Ljnh ujnMnpsdhhkgdnc dn Gjpdonq Jik|dhj kn `k r{lgdkhk m|cjnkn `dk daf lkdc fm{`kn ikp mnpsdhhkgdncujn mnk qp|khkn.—

Jgjnn

Jdgpmn

) ‖@k [nd dq ckkn `mm| `k \kck|dnc k|hkn`k em|ikgk m|cjndqjpdk. Fkp umm|njjiqpk dq `j `k[ND hjn e{nck|kn jgq dnqp|{iknp' jgq id``kg umm| `k dnfkkiqk umghk|kn kn jgq lkckgkd`dnc dn `kqp|do` umm| f{n |kafpkn' mr`jp f{n u|jckn |kgkujnp m{`kn don. Sk fkllkn n{ ldoumm|lkkg` kkn o{|d`dqafk japdk gmrkn? sk kdqkn `jp `k \kck|dnc `k cm{`mkhk|q skcp|khp {dp fkp Tjnmijidckldk`. @k [ND gkd`p `kk japdk.—

Jgjnn

)‖Pdo`knq idon uk|lgdoe ldo `k Vjujnpkq h|kkc dh h|dpdkh pk fm|kn mr `k [ND jgq m{ fkp ään ujn`k mukgk hjnpm|kn don sjj| jggkkn ijj| ckr|jjp sm|`p muk| dn`djnkn|kafpkn kn skdndc ck`jjnsm|`p.

Jdgpmn

) ‖@jp dq lkqp imckgdoh kn fkp dq sjj|qafdongdoh `jp dn Vjujnpk`m|rkn `k [ND lkh|dpdqkk|`sm|`p. Dh udn` `jp mr daf ndkp m qgkafp. Ijj|' jgq ‖`k dn`djjn— `k [ND lkh|dpdqkk|` `jn lkh|dpdqkk|`fdo dn kk|qpk rgjjpq dafkge. @k [ND qpjjp umm| dn`djnkn ujn L|jdgdè. Dh m{ fkp ukkg |k`kgdohk|udn`kn imafpkn k `k E{njd' `dk kkn l{`ckp fkkep ujn 62 idggdj|` a|{j`mq rk| ojj| kn lkqafdhpmuk| 6222 jilpknj|kn' ugdkcp{dckn' sjcknq' hjnpmm|cklm{skn' pkgkemmn' amir{pk|q' |dohqsjcknq'pkgkv' rmgdpdk kn amnp|mgk{|q' mn`k| u{{| nkikn. _mn`k| `jp k `jj|ikk dkpq umm| `k dn`djjnr|kqpkk|p. Fkp m{ njíke don mi pk `knhkn `jp `k [ND jggkkn ijj| lkqafdhp ljgjtjq &ijn`knckijjhp ujn gdjnkn$' sjp rjrdk|' kkn gjn`hjj|p `mkn ikp ijíknj' rdogkn kn lmckn kn jggk|gkd

Dn`djnknijpk|djjg' kkn c|kdnpok ijafp m{ lkdppkn dn `kk lgjnhk sk|kg`. @k sk|kg` ujn `klgjnhkn dq `dk ujn `k lgjnhkn kn `dk ujn `k dn`djnkn dq `dk ujn `k dn`djnkn* @k dn`djnkn `dk dafumm| `k lgjnhk sk|kg` dnpk|kqqk|kn kn `jj| kkn rgjjpqok sdggkn ' uk|cdqqkn daf. _k p|khhkn fkpmnckg{h muk| daf. Odo' Jgjnn' hmip {dp kkn sk|kg` `dk uk|mn`k|qpkg` sm|`p mnpsdhhkg` kn |doh pk don.@knh odo' imafpkn `k dn`djnkn h|dockn sjp om{s sk|kg` fkn jjn ldk`p' k ckg{hhdc m{`kn don=Fkp gdohp jgqme qmiidck dn`djnkn `jj|mr {dp don' `jp k f{n gkukn' f{n |kjgdpkdp sdggkn |{dgkn umm| `k|miikg `dk fkp skqpkn r|m`{akk|p. K| don dn`djnkn `dk `k [ND lkh|dpdqk|kn' ijj| k lkh|dpdqk|knumm|jg Jdgpmn H|knjh. Sjnp' Jdgpmn H|knjh dq fdk| ndkp mi ujn `k dn`djnkn lkqafjje`kqpk`kgdnckn pk ijhkn.—

Jgjnn

)Sjj| p|khp Jdgpmn Hknjh `k gdon sjp lkp|kep fkp kumg{pdkrjp|mmn ujn `k dn`djjnqk umghk|kn=@k Vjujnpkq sdggkn p|japm|q' j{pm—q. @k Hjijt{|j—q &Vdncÿ |kqk|ujjp$ hdohkn k njj| L|{ak Gkk kn\jilm dn f{n `m|r. Sdggkn qmiidck dn`djnkn gdkuk| cjÿafmq sm|`kn=

Jdgpmn

) ‖Dh `knh `jp qmiidckn `jp dn`k|`jj` sknqkn? k hdohkn {dp njj| kkn |j`dm mr ljppk|dokn'kkn p|japm| me pkgkudqdk. Fkp dq kkn u|jjcqp{h `jp `k [ND lkdc fm{`p kn ikp `k dn`djjnqk njpdkqlkqp{`kk|p. Jgq k `jj|mr {dp don fkkep fkp uk|`k| ckkn dn mi qjikn pk qp|do`kn. Sjnnkk| kdafkge njj| `k uk|`mkikndq sdggkn fkgrkn `jn imkpkn k `jp kge ijj| `mkn' ijj|' jgq fkp cjjpmi kgeskk|ljj|fkd` jjn pk gk|kn' `jn h{nnkn k mr [ND |khknkn. Hdoh' jgq ok ok ejidgdk ldor|mlgkikn kkn `dknqp sdg lksdokn' `jn `{s ok k ckkn uk|cde me sjrknq dn f{n fjn`kn umm| f{nkgeimm|` ijj| `jn cj ok njj| keekapdkuk jgpk|njpdkukn mkhkn. Sk imkpkn qp|kukn njj| kknfm{`ljj| kuknsdafpdck mnpsdhhkgdnc dn fj|imndk ikp `k njp{{| ijj| umm|jg imkpkn sk mnke{n`jiknpkn' p|j`dpdkq kn a{gp{{| lksj|kn. @k `jc `jp jggk dn`djnkn`m|rkn umg qpjjn ikp pu kn|j`dm' jg `k dn`djjn jggkq don lkfjguk dn`djjn.—

Jgjnn

) Sjp udn`p { ujn `k ijndk| sjj|mr `k dn`djnkn sm|`kn lkp|mhhkn ldor|kqd`knpquk|hdkdnckn=

Jdgpmn

) ‖Ck`{|kn`k `k gjjpqpk r|kqd`knpquk|hdkdnckn u|mkc kkn om{|njgdqp jjn \jmné umm| sdk `kdn`djjn m{ qpkiikn. \jmné jnpsmm|``k `jj| mr `jp `k dn`djnkn daf ndkp imckn iknckn dn `kjhkn ujn lgjnhkn. Dh qg{dp ik ldo don ikndnc jjn. Mnk fmmr dq cke{n`kk|` mr jn`k|k r|dnadrkq.Sk lkqpjjn jg pdkn â psjjge`{dkn` ojj| mr `kk rgjnkkp' sjj|mi m{`kn sk n{ jgq kkncm|`kg`dk|k mnk hmr dn knk cjp imkpkn qpkhkn kn mnk ckqafdk`kndq uk|ckpkn= @k rmgdpdkh= Jg `dk`dnckn ujn `k lgjnhkn don ujn umm|ldocjjn`k jj|`. Nkp mjgq `k cmgukn ujn `k kk `dk jgq ksmkqp sm|`kn kkn fkkg fmck ugmk` uk|mm|jhkn mi `jj|nj jgq `k cmgukn kn ugmk` skcp|khhknskk| kkn rk|dm`k hknp ujnsjj| jggkq uk|ujjcp. @k mik|' `k pdo` sjj|dn `k lgjnhkn qpkk`q rmcknmi fkp gkukn ujn `k dn`djjn pk uk|jn`k|kn jg kge mmh uk|jn`k|kn. Fkp lkgjnc|dohqpk dq `jp `kdn`djnkn `dp lkqkeekn kn `k ajrjadpkdpkn lkdppkn mi jggkq sjp ujn `dafpldo cklk{|p pk h{nnkn`mm|qpjjn.—

Jgjnn

‑‖Pmaf dkn sk kkn qaf|donkn`k pmkqpjn` dn `k |kqk|ujpkn dn `k U.Q. sjj| `k dn`djnkn ujnskgkk| f{n sjj|`kn me kge|kqrkap uk|gm|kn gdohkn pk fkllkn? jgamfmgdqik kn kgeimm|` donqafk|dnc kn dnqgjc. Lkqpjjp `dp ckujjp mmh ndkp umm| jggk L|jdgdjjnqk dn`djnkn=

Jdgpmn

) ‖Ikn imkp daf ndkp jgpdo` gjpkn gkd`kn `mm| {dpk|gdohfk`kn.Idqqafdkn fkl ok mmh h{nnkn dkn`jp ldnnkndn `dk rk|qmmn `dk daf mcknjji` gjjp cjjn' kkn ckkqp' kkn khk|k `dkrpk lkqpjjp'c|mmp ujn p|j`dpdk kn `jp k `dk {dpk|gdohfk`kn nm`dc fkllkn mi pk muk|gkukn. _k h{nnkn ndkp ikk|njjhp gkukn me ojckn mi`jp `k lgjnhkn fkp ndkp m{`kn pmgk|k|kn `jp k| dn f{n l{{|p njjhpkdn`djnkn |mn`sk|ukn kn mi`jp k| ckkn ojafpckldk`kn ikk| don. _k gmrkn n{ ckhgkk`. @k lgjnhknmnpnjikn fkn f{n pk||dpm|dj' uk|lm`kn f{n fkdgdck `|jnhkn' cjukn k jgamfmg kn qpmrpn k dn|kqk|ujpkn sjj| k ndkpq ikk| {dpumk|`kn. Ukkg lkgjnc|dohk| dq ' `jj| lkn dh ujn muk|p{dc`' `jp k|cdn`q nmc ukkg rjoäq &qojijnkn$ don. Ijafpdck ijnnkn ikp kkn qpk|hk qrd|dp' `dk `jj|ikk `mm|

{ggkn cjjn' jg lgkke k| ijj| ään ujn fkn muk|. Fkp lksj|kn ujn `k a{gp{{| ujn `k umghk|kn ujnfkp Nmm|`kn pmp fkp pdo jg hk|kn kn k f{n o{h {ggkn jesk|rkn. Dn `k r|mekpdkèn ujn mnk qpjiikn'uk|qr|kd` muk| Nmm|` kn _{d` sk|` mnq |kk`q ckkc` `jp k mr kkn `jc mr `kk ijndk|mn`k|sm|rkn m{`kn sm|`kn. Idon uj`k|' c|mmp‑kn muk|c|mmpuj`k| sdqpkn `jp |kk`q. Sjj|mim{`kn sdo mnq jekppkn pkckn mnk kdckn r|mekpdkèn= Dh ukafp `jj| ndkp pkckn' dh sdg `jp k dafumgp|khhkn. Mr kkn `jc jg fkp umm|ldo don. Ok h{np fkp uk|ckgdohkn ikp hmm|pq me rdon. Dkijn` dkp okkn |mkrp? ‖Sjp fkl odo kkn hmm|pq* Ijj| odo skkp `jp ok fkp u|mkck| jg kknq fklp ckfj`' `jp fkp jgmuk|cjjn kn `jp ok k| ndkp jjn qpk|ep. K|cknq `dkr dn ok ldnnknqpk lgdoep k| dkpq ldo ok pmp `k hmm|pquk|`sdonp. Ok hmip ldo kn ok lkqkep `jp ok nmc gkkep. @jp skkp mnq umgh {dp k|uj|dnc. Mr kkn `jc jg `klkqafjudncqhmm|pq ndkp ikk| don. Sk skpkn `jp sk imkpkn `mm|cjjn ikp mnk sjj|`kn kna{gp{{| kn `jp sk `dp ndkp {ggkn |{dgkn umm| sjj|`kgmk |miikg.—

Jgjnn

)Dh qpkg`k ldo `k Vjujnpkq ujqp `jp kkn fkgklmkg ljlt—q kn hdn`k|kn `mm| |jppkn sm|`kncklkpkn kn dnekapdkq mrgmrkn. Dh u|mkc jjn `k ajãdz{k sjj|mi k ndkp r|mlkk|`kn dn fjncijppknpk qgjrkn mjgq ldoumm|lkkg` `k Tjnmijid—q `jp `mkn. Fkp m{ ftcdèndqafk| don umm| `k hdn`k|kn.Fdo jnpsmm|``k ik `jp fkp f{n a{gp{{| ndkp sjq. Ijj| mmh sjcknq kn |j`dm—q ijhkn ckkn `kkg {dpujn f{n a{gp{{| kn pmaf fkllkn k `dk skg. @jp dq pmaf ndkp gmcdqaf=

Jdgpmn

) ‖Nkk' sjj|qafdongdoh ndkp. Ijj|' fkp fkkep skg kkn |k`kn. Mnk a{gp{|kn don ndkp gmcdqaf. @kp|j`dpdk ujn idon umgh' &`k H|knjhq$' dq mmh ndkp gmcdqaf kn dh ckgmme `dk ujn `k Vjujnpkq mmh ndkp.Fkp dq kk|`k| kkn ijcdqafk p|j`dpdk. @jj|mi cjjn k `mm| ikp mr `k c|mn` pk qgjrkn. @jpfkllkn k |kk`q `{dkn`kn oj|kn ck`jjn' sjj|mi m{`kn k `jp dnkknq ndkp ikk| `mkn= Fkpfkkep fkn nmmdp hsjj` lk|mhhkn`. @k qkgkapdkajrjadpkdp' skpkn sjp k skg me ndkp sdggkn' dq ldokpndqafk a{gp{|kn me hgkdnk umghkn fkkg q{lpdkg. Pk q{lpdkg pkcknmuk| `k jc|kqqdudpkdp ujn kknlkqafjudnc. @k Vjujnpkq fkllkn `k gjjpqpk pdkn ojj| kkn dnpknq amnpjap ikp `k `dnckn` `dk `klkqafjudnc r|m`{akk|p. Idqqafdkn dq umm| fkn `k pdo` |dor mi ikp `dk `dnckn pk qrkgkn.Ujn `k knk `jc mr `k jn`k|k hjn `dk ejqadnjpdk mrfm{`kn kn gjpkn k `k |miikg gdnhqgdcckn.Jn`k|k qpjiikn fkllkn `dp r|makq jg jafpk| `k |{c. K| don qpjiikn `dk nmc ckkn knhkgkhkk| ujn `jp qmm|p mnp`khhdnckn fkllkn imckn r|mkukn' mjgq `k Tjnmijid—q. `knh ok `jp `kTjnmijid—q `jj| ckkn dn dn m{`kn fkllkn= Fkllkn k fkp |kafp ndkp= Idqqafdkn {ggkn`{dkn`kn ujn fkn `jj|`mm| mihmikn. Ijj|' nmaf dh' nmaf odo' ijc fkn `dp uk|ldk`kn me `k hjnqmnpnkikn mi ujn `jp lgjnhk cde pk r|mkukn.—

Jgjnn

) ‖Uk|sk|r odo `jn jggkq sjp `k lgjnhk r|m`{akk|p=

Jdgpmn

)‖Nkk.—

Jgjnn

) )_don k| `dnckn `dk ok gk{h udn`p=

Jdgpmn

) ‖Qmiidck. K| don kgeq `dnckn `dk `k lgjnhk r|m`{akk|p sjj| fdo kge ndkp jafpk| qpjjp.Ijj|' fdo lkfjn`kgp `k `dnckn' `dk fdo umm| hdkqk jhkn nm`dc fkkep' ikp gdke`k. @k iknqkn'a{gp{|kn me umghk|kn hknnkn ikkqpjg ndkp `k jafpk|c|mn` ujn kkn {dpudn`dnc `dk fdo fkn aj`kj{`mkp. Fkp uk|fjjg ujn `dk mnp`khhdnc {ggkn k nmmdp fm|kn' k m{`kn fkp pkckn dafkge ckl|{dhkn.Ndkp jggkq sjp cmk` dq umm| lgjnhkn dq mmh cmk` umm| `k dn`djnkn.—

Jgjnn

)‖@k ikkqpk Dn`djnkn `dk dh mr idon skc mnpimkppk sj|kn pkckn `k E{njd kn umm| `kjeqafjeednc k|ujn. _don umm|cjnck|' `k QRD' imkqp mrckfkukn sm|`kn skcknqam||{rpdkqafjn`jgkn. Imafp fkp mmdp muk| ikp E{njd hmikn' imkp k| `jn skk| kkn ndk{s m|cjjnmrck|dafp sm|`kn me m{`kn `k dn`djnkn f{n kdckn lmmnpokq h{nnkn `mrrkn=J

dgpmn

) ‖Fkp rk|aknpjck dn`djnkn dn L|jdgdè lk`|jjcp 2':5' uk|qr|kd` muk| Nmm|` kn _{d` kn muk|Mmqp kn Skqp. Nkp jgqme ok sjp ijndmhikkg dn ok fjn` nkkip kn k| m kknq dn lgjjqp. _m

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Tags:	ailton krenak stam indianen brazilie mato grosso sao paulo u ailton krenak stam indianen brazilie mato grosso sao paulo u (fewer)

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