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Testimonium Flavianum, Marian Hillar

Testimonium Flavianum, Marian Hillar

Ratings: (0)|Views: 61|Likes:
Published by David Bailey
Most of these people talking about this make mistakes. This lady made mistakes (or at least did not mention some pertinent facts), but much better than Whealey who makes some points not amounting to anything and are just plain dumb. Meier makes mistakes and contradicts himself a little in his Marginal Jew when discussing the TF. Of course, without the TF and Tacitus (the rest of the extra biblical references are about Christians), he is left with Jesus only existing in the NT which is a bunch of fairy tales that he himself tore to shreds in tons of places. Even if we were to agree that both the Tacitus statement, (the only thing there that mentions Jesus does not actually mention Jesus but Christians who got their name from Christ "auctor nominis eius christus=name came from Christ" and that this Christ guy was executed during the reign of Tiberius [a given once Pilate is injected because of dates] by the Procurator Pontius Pilate. Here Tacitus gets Pilate's official title wrong as he was "Prefect" which Meier states is evidence he wasn't citing any official Roman records), and the TF were written by the authors of the works, so what! The important question in both cases is where did Tacitus get his information (and Josephus too, assuming he wrote the TF which he probably did not, for that matter) since neither one is a direct witness to any of this. Sources! Keep in mind too that Josephus used the Table of Nations in Genesis to make part of his history of the Jews [ ! ] so he wasn't exactly critical of sources to say the least. Meier admits that Tacitus may simply be repeating what was common knowledge about Christians at the beginning of the 2nd century. Of course he was, and it smells of information that Christians would preserve or derived from their own creeds. Is there anything else left except interpolation either in part or whole? In other words, both are just about worthless as far as historical information about Jesus no matter how we slice and dice them.

Everyone interested in looking into this simply must read the article in the journal cited below. Bottom line is that it is more likely that Eusebius forged the TF (what I believe) than Josephus wrote it, and this goes for the entire thing.

Catholic Biblical Quarterly, vol. 61, no. 2, April 1999

Eusebius and the Testimonium Flavianum by K. A. Olson

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00268Y83E/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

If I could be 100% assured I would not get in trouble, I would copy it out and post it here, but I can't.

Also see here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/101267367/The-Christ-Passage-in-Josephus-S-Zeitlin

and here:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/pliny.htm

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm
Most of these people talking about this make mistakes. This lady made mistakes (or at least did not mention some pertinent facts), but much better than Whealey who makes some points not amounting to anything and are just plain dumb. Meier makes mistakes and contradicts himself a little in his Marginal Jew when discussing the TF. Of course, without the TF and Tacitus (the rest of the extra biblical references are about Christians), he is left with Jesus only existing in the NT which is a bunch of fairy tales that he himself tore to shreds in tons of places. Even if we were to agree that both the Tacitus statement, (the only thing there that mentions Jesus does not actually mention Jesus but Christians who got their name from Christ "auctor nominis eius christus=name came from Christ" and that this Christ guy was executed during the reign of Tiberius [a given once Pilate is injected because of dates] by the Procurator Pontius Pilate. Here Tacitus gets Pilate's official title wrong as he was "Prefect" which Meier states is evidence he wasn't citing any official Roman records), and the TF were written by the authors of the works, so what! The important question in both cases is where did Tacitus get his information (and Josephus too, assuming he wrote the TF which he probably did not, for that matter) since neither one is a direct witness to any of this. Sources! Keep in mind too that Josephus used the Table of Nations in Genesis to make part of his history of the Jews [ ! ] so he wasn't exactly critical of sources to say the least. Meier admits that Tacitus may simply be repeating what was common knowledge about Christians at the beginning of the 2nd century. Of course he was, and it smells of information that Christians would preserve or derived from their own creeds. Is there anything else left except interpolation either in part or whole? In other words, both are just about worthless as far as historical information about Jesus no matter how we slice and dice them.

Everyone interested in looking into this simply must read the article in the journal cited below. Bottom line is that it is more likely that Eusebius forged the TF (what I believe) than Josephus wrote it, and this goes for the entire thing.

Catholic Biblical Quarterly, vol. 61, no. 2, April 1999

Eusebius and the Testimonium Flavianum by K. A. Olson

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00268Y83E/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

If I could be 100% assured I would not get in trouble, I would copy it out and post it here, but I can't.

Also see here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/101267367/The-Christ-Passage-in-Josephus-S-Zeitlin

and here:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/pliny.htm

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

More info:

Published by: David Bailey on Jul 27, 2012
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