TTK Prestige Results conference call

January 31, 2011

MODERATORS: MR. T.T. JAGANNATHAN CHAIRMAN, TTK PRESTIGE MR. S. RAVICHANDRAN MANAGING DIRECTOR, TTK PRESTIGE MR. K. SHANKARAN DIRECTOR, CORPORATE AFFAIRS, TTK PRESTIGE

TTK Prestige January 31, 2011

Moderator

Ladies and gentleman, good evening. This is Rochelle, the moderator for the Conference Call with TTK Prestige hosted by Collins Stewart Inga Private Limited. We have with us today Mr. T.T. Jagannathan, Chairman of TTK Prestige along with Mr. S. Ravichandran, Managing Director of TTK Prestige and Mr. K. Shankaran, Director-Corporate Affairs of TTK Prestige. At this moment all participant lines are in the listen-only mode. Later we will conduct a question and answer session. At that time if you have a question please enter * and then 1 on your touchtone telephone keypad. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would like to hand the conference over to Mr. T.T. Jagannathan, Chairman of TTK Prestige. Thank you and over to you sir.

T.T. Jagannathan

Good afternoon. My name is T.T. Jagannathan, Chairman of TTK Prestige. Welcome to all of you for the conference, you have seen our quarterly results we have grown the top line by 61%, bottom line by 91% for the quarter and for the half-year we have grown the top line by 50%, bottom line by 60%. Company is doing extremely well and its poise to do better, I await your question.

Moderator

Thank you very much. Our first question is from the line of Nirjar Handa of M3 Investments, please go ahead.

Nirjar Handa

Could you tell me in the first nine months this 581 odd crores of net sales that have what would be the rough split between pressure cooker, cookware and other appliances?

T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa

Pressure cooker 245 crores. The cookware 113. Okay, others 208. Others 208, that is whole the appliances. Then miscellaneous about 22. Okay. And out of this you are only manufacturing press cookers and cookware or have you started manufacturing appliances also?

T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan

No, as of now we make only pressure cookers and cookwares. And going forward what are the plans to manufacture appliances? There are plans we have actually setup a factory in Roorkee to manufacture appliances, its not yet gone into production. We will start in the year 11-12.

Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan

Okay. It will start and is this also in our tax exempt area? Yes, it is.

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Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa Both excise and income tax, right? That is correct. Okay. And one more thing, do you have a sales number for the nine months of last year for pressure cooker which is 245 this year? T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Last year it was 185. Cookware 64. Other items 116. And then others are about 16 crores. Okay. And so that means you grown pressure cooker value terms by about 32%? That is absolutely. So what has been the industry growth in your estimate? There is no data for this but we estimate around 10%. By values, is it? By volume, value would be about 15%. Thats for the estimate. There is no data available. Okay. And roughly what would be the state of the organized sector if that is possible to? Again its a big wild guess I would say the organized sector value would be about 75% and unorganized 25 in value. Nirjar Handa T.T. Jagannathan Nirjar Handa Moderator In value terms. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much and all the best for the future. Thank you Mr. Handa. The next question is from the line of Shivani Mehra of Techno Shares & Stocks, please go ahead. Shivani Mehra Sir, I just wanted to know of what would be our capacities in the major segment currently and what would it be going into FY12. Along with what is the CAPEX that is going into for increasing the capacity sir? T.T. Jagannathan Current capacity of pressure cooker is about 4 million, 40 lakhs cookers a year. And cookware is about 30 lakh cookware a year. We are adding of about 60 lakhs pressure cookers per year as

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capacity. And another 75 lakhs cooker per year as capacity. So and the total investment capacity will be the range of 250 crores. Over the next 12 months. We will also be adding marginal capacity in appliances. Shivani Mehra Okay sir. Sir, any new product or any new line that we have feel that-, where the company looking at to entry for new growth prospect? T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra Yes, we are getting a full automatic hard anodizing plant. Hard anodized okay cookers, yes sir. Fully automatic plant flat that produces 5 million pieces a year. Okay. And this is mainly an export product, right sir? No, its mainly India. Okay mainly India. Sir, what were the exports for Q3 this year and Q3 last year sir? Five crores this year, last year four crores, this year five crores. Okay, Q3. Yeah. Okay sir. I just wanted to know, how is the distribution network now currently between North Indian and South India, we are seeing more, you see growth and traction basically in top line coming in because we are moving more from South India to North India, the incremental growth sir? T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra We are growing very well both in South India and non South India. Sir is there is a division between distribution network between North and South, if you could give me and how they moved in the last two-three years, how have they increased our distribution? T.T. Jagannathan Shivani Mehra Moderator In the nine months we have grown equally in South India and North India. Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you Ms. Mehra. Our next question is from the line of Umesh Gupta of Reliance Wealth Management please go ahead.

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Umesh Gupta Yeah, one question on your capacity you are saying you have about four million cooker capacity right now and you are putting another six million cooker. T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Correct. I am assuming you have about 40% market share in the overall cooker capacity market. Yeah. If you put six million more, you would be more than the overall market. So, dont you think there will be an over capacity kind of situation? T.T. Jagannathan No, you are assuming that market is not going to grow, market is growing plus there is a huge opportunity for export which we are going to tap. And capacity is not for next 12 months, we are setting up capacity for next 12 months for the next five years. Umesh Gupta No, but if you have a capacity of lets 10 million cookers available with you around next year onwards. And if you are not utilizing that capacity which means you are under utilizing your CAPEX? T.T. Jagannathan No, leaving the cookware and pressure cooker industry the capacity build up is not very expensive and you always have to build up vastly more capacity than you require because you dont know when the market is going to grow. The current capacity was set up in 2001. Umesh Gupta Okay. And on the exports front what kind of annual volume do you think, you would be able to generate one year, two year down the line? T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan We are currently doing about a million cookers; we expect that to go up to two, three million. Two, three million cookers, on the cookware side? On the cookware side we are developing brand new technology in cooker, we are currently very little cookware but we expect it go up substantial quantity. Umesh Gupta Okay. And on this export side I was reading some old interview of yours probably, you are present in the export market but you withdrew from that export market because of some concerns in the payment and you probably had a write off also. So what is changed for the export market now and what are you learn from that experience?

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T.T. Jagannathan We were present in the US in a big way and with our own brand and our own company and out there, we withdrawn only from the US, we have not withdrawn from the export market. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Okay. So what were the problems in the US market and have you entered again in the US? We are investigating, the US market is really in bad shape and we had bankruptcies andwrite offs . The US market went a really bad patch and we got hurt in the bargain and we decided that we will withdrew temporarily, regroup and see what market does n the future and then decide. Umesh Gupta Okay. What is the export model currently, do you have your own subsidiary there which does the business in your own name or you have the distributors led model there? T.T. Jagannathan We had our own subsidiary there which is now still there; it should not closed down, but is dormant. We are now using a distributor in the US. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Do they use your brand or do they have their own branding? No, they use our brand they are distributors. So the brand name is Prestige. Brand name is Mantra actually and we also have Prestige in the US, yes. Okay. So what kind of payment terms are there with the distributor or what I am trying to understand are these models similar to what you have in India or is it different? T.T. Jagannathan The model is different what you asked we have in India and I am afraid I cannot discuss payment terms with you. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Okay. But have you had any write off or any bad payments in lets say last three-four years? No. Okay. And secondly on this capex this 260 crores, should the entire capex you will be spending in FY12 T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta No, some would come in FY13 Okay. And how are you going to fund this capex?

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T.T. Jagannathan By the end of this year we should do about 100 crores in cash, we expect to get another 100 crores in FY12 that will fund about 200 or 250 we will borrow about 50, 60 crores which can be paid back in FY13. Umesh Gupta Okay. And finally coming on the demand, you said that in the first nine months you have seen similar demand in North India and South India? T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta No I said the growth in value is same in North India and South India thats what I said. Growth in value is the same between north and south India. Yes, between South India and other parts of India. Okay. So what we are trying to understand, what is your strategy for North India expansion and how far have you reached in terms of your distribution in North India? T.T. Jagannathan We always had a very good distribution in North India, it is just that we did not have right product we produced outer lid cookers and North India is largely inner lid cookers market. For last three years we have not produced Inner Lid cookers and so we are getting larger market shares. But the distribution set up existed even before that Umesh Gupta Okay. And what is your breakup of revenue in terms of geographically if you could highlight a ball park between North, South, East and West, what are the three categories? T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta I am afraid that is very confidential information, I dont think we should give you that. Okay. And you said that you have been in North India for a very long time, but in terms of brand competiveness that you are definitely much better in the South India and so what are the steps you are taking to gain a larger foot holding North India is a strategy same only that differences are you are now Inner Lid cookware or you find there is something different in the North India? T.T. Jagannathan I must correct you in the brand survey that was done by super brand and Mera brand and master brand three different organizations, our branch is varied from North India. So it is not true, that we are only in South India, we didnt have the right product, the brand, always been very salient Umesh Gupta Okay. And what are your distributions, strengths on our overall basis in terms of the number of outlets? T.T. Jagannathan We are available at about 45000 outlets.

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Umesh Gupta And what would be the target outlet in your opinion which are still to be tapped or lets say what kind of expansion could there be in terms of this number of outlets? T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta I would expect range 8% to 10% growth every year. 8% to 10% growth every year. And where is the most demand coming from is it from metro or Tier1, Tier2, if you could tell us about the difference in growth between different kind of cities? T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan It is actually uniform at metros Tier 1, Tier 2 at all levels uniform growth. Okay. What kind of growth rates do you expect for the next two-three years? If the economy continues growth at 8% to 8.5% and the interest rates continue to hold at current levels then we do expect to grow topline by between 30% and 35% going forward. Umesh Gupta You know, the economy as always been growing at about 7, 8% for last six, seven years, but you are not growing at T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta I am sorry you can go and look at our growth rate for a last, for eight years is been 35% CAGR. No, right but off let in the last four to six quarter you have grown much faster than your historical rate? T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Thank you. but I am expecting that going forward it will be revert back to 35%. And what is the risk in your opinion in GDP growth declining, what do you think could derail this 35% growth rate. T.T. Jagannathan Severe raw material prices which of course is a risk and we will have to increase our price fairly dramatically that will slow the market down. But its not showing up right now. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan And how do you mitigate the commodity risk, We cannot mitigate that commodities rise, if annually raw material price goes up up we will have to absorb it and pass it onto the consumer Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta And does it happen in the same quarter or its with a significant lag? That depends upon various things in the market. Okay. So you think that you will be able to maintain the current margin given the

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T.T. Jagannathan I expect that as a last quarter margins been 18% EBITDA, we expect to maintain to 16% and 17% EBITDA. Umesh Gupta Moderator 16% and 17% okay. Thanks I will get back in case if I have further questions. Thank you very much. Our next question is from the line of Shashank Tulsyan of SBI Mutual Fund, please go ahead. Shashank Tulsyan Sir, a very basic question could you give us a nine month figures, if you could give us only the quarterly numbers or Q3 FY11 and Q3FY10. T.T. Jagannathan Shashank Tulsyan Repeat the question please. I think you had given us nine month segmented breakdowns. Could give us only three months segmented based on that we really breakdown. T.T. Jagannathan Shashank Tulsyan T.T. Jagannathan Shashank Tulsyan T.T. Jagannathan Pressure cooker is 91 crores, cookware 49 crores and appliances about 91 crores, others 8 crores. Okay sir. And that gas stoves and electrical appliances. I cannot do that. Because okay, last con call you had done that, no problem sir. Now what is the Q3FY10? 66 crores for pressure cooker, cookware 26 crores, others 52 crores and there is appliances 52 crores, other is about 6 crores. Shashank Tulsyan Moderator Other is about 6 crores. Sir thats great, thats all from my end as of now. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Tulsyan. Our next question is a follow up from the line of Umesh Gupta of Reliance Wealth Management, please go ahead. Umesh Gupta I know you will probably not comment on the competition and what are the reasons. There is a only one significant competitor, I would not name it, that looking at the numbers they have been facing problems all around right from the top line to bottom line on the commodities and the raw material and we have not seen anything like that and your number. So without commenting specifically on that particular competitor, could you tell us what exactly is different from what you are doing in the market? T.T. Jagannathan Sir I will give you all the information on TTK Prestige that you asked me, I refuse to answer any questions on the competitor, please call them and ask them.

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Umesh Gupta No, I am asking you, is it only because you have extended in terms of the cookware and appliances which is dragging growth for you even in the cookware probably because the brand has extended or is it like the market itself is growing and you have just been able to tap that market correctly. What is the specific reason for your growth? T.T. Jagannathan I already said that we are growing much faster than the market is so we are certainly getting market share in the market and as far as we are concerned. S. Ravichandran We are built enough capacity in the last three years to give me the demand, we are building capacities thats the reason why we are able to grow our share very nicely. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Okay. In the cooker, in the first nine months what is been the volume growth for you? About 35%. And the value growth? 32%. Okay. So its still a largely volume driven growth and you think that if you continue to do like in terms of the realization, this will continue to fall may be on a slightly lower rate or do you think that the realization will also start going up considering the commodity prices have hardened? T.T. Jagannathan Sir currently the realization will follow the commodity prices, if the commodity prices harden, the realization will go up. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Are you seeing that in the last few months? Yes certainly the impact is up by 6% in FY11. On the pressure cooker. That is correct. Okay. And how is that trend in the cookware is similar in terms of volume growth and Similar, in terms of cookware the volume growth is much higher. Cookware value growth is 76% for the nine months and volume growth is about 90%. Umesh Gupta Okay. And would you be able to give some ballpark number in terms of the sales through these large format retail stores

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T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Moderator 10% of our sales is through large format retail store. And is the growth rate similar there as the overall growth rate? Yes, very similar. Very similar okay. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Gupta. Our next question is from the line of Ruchita Maheshwari of Nirmal Bang Securities, please go ahead. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Sir, I just missed the CapEx number, can you tell me what is the CapEx for FY11 and for FY12? Going forward over the next 15 months it will be 250 crores. Okay. And sir how you are going to fund it? We will have about 100 crores in cash by the end of this year we will raise. And we will raise another 100 crores in cash internally by next year by FY12 March. And that will fund around 250 crores; we expect to borrow the balance and repay it by FY13. Ruchita Maheshwari Okay. And can you tell me what is the revenue growth from rural and from urban, what is the percentage? T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari Its been uniform; the company growth has been uniform in the Tier-1, Tier-2, Tier-3 and metros. Okay sir. Sir, what do you expect, like the rural incomes are growing so do you think that revenue will be more generated from the rural area or it will be like 50-50? T.T. Jagannathan S. Ravichandran It will be like it is today, all the territories will grow uniformly. See migration is a big thing in India. So the urban market is also driven by migration trends. Therefore we will expect that the growth rate is urban and rural in India will be shaped by the migrations and as well as the rural income growth. Ruchita Maheshwari Okay. Are you seeing any raw materials pressure or if we are then how we are going to minimize it, are we seeing any increase in the prices going forward? T.T. Jagannathan I cant guess as of now there has been a marginal increase price aluminum and almost flat in stainless steel. I can only tell you if there are cost increases, we will pass it on to the consumer.

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Ruchita Maheshwari So are we sure of passing on the cost increase to our customers or will we see any volume decline due to the raise in prices? T.T. Jagannathan We have passed on cost increase successfully over the last 55 years. And if the cost increases are very high volume do get impacted For instance one year we increased price by 80% volume growth is dropped. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Sir, apart from Prestige do we have any other brands or is it only Prestige? In India it is only Prestige, we have another brand called Mantra for export but its very-very small, about 1% of our total sale. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari Okay sir. Are we planning for any new launch of new appliances or? Yes. Sir, what will be the timeline for that? Q2-FY12. And what type of appliances will that be? That I cannot reveal right now. Okay fine. And sir what is the percentage of revenue from the Prestige cooker? What do you mean by, what is the revenue for Prestige cooker? Means, if suppose you are having 100 crores of revenue so how much does Prestige contribute to that revenue? T.T. Jagannathan 100 crores, we will get all the 100 crores. What is the question, repeat the question, Prestige is our brand if we grow 100 crore Prestige grows by 100 crores. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Okay. I was specifically asking the Prestige cooker? You mean pressure cooker growth, 32% in value total 100 crore sale, 42% is pressure cooker. Okay. Sir, what will be the top line for FY12 any guidance for that? We expect to grow by 35%.

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Ruchita Maheshwari And if you can tell me what will be the million units that you will be selling it FY12 compared to FY11? T.T. Jagannathan S. Ravichandran Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari Moderator Well we sell about 4.7 million units. Yeah, about a million pieces more in pressure cookers. A million pieces more. So what will be the FY11 number roughly? About 3.7 million. 3.7 million so roughly FY12 will be 4.7 or 5 million. Around 4.7 million. Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you Ms. Maheshwari. Our next question is from the line of Abhijit Akella of JM Financial, please go ahead. Abhijit Akella Could you please quantify the market opportunity in terms of feature for product lines, or the industry sizes rather? T.T. Jagannathan Abhijit Akella I didnt get the question, repeat the question please. For cookers, cookware, appliances, what is the industry size and what is our market share within each of those? T.T. Jagannathan There is no hard and fast data unfortunately. But in, value we expect the market will be about 1000 crores give or take. We will do about 400 crores which is about 40%. Cookware market, there is no data at all because cookware requires stainless steel, cottage industry everything and it is unknown. But in the last cookware market we estimate size to be 800 crores; there also we will be doing about 250 crores now. Appliance in market in total will be about 10000 crores, we do 250 crores. Abhijit Akella Okay. Are we emphasizing any one of these categories where we see the bulk of future growth coming or? T.T. Jagannathan It will be in all the three categories.

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Abhijit Akella Right. And how do we differentiate ourselves against the larger incumbents lets say in the appliances category where the currently a relatively small player, what is our unique preposition there? T.T. Jagannathan I would disagree that we are currently a small player. We are only in kitchen appliance where we are a very large player. Abhijit Akella Okay. What was the size of that be? I mean kitchen appliances as a segment how large could that be? T.T. Jagannathan Abhijit Akella T.T. Jagannathan Abhijit Akella The kitchen appliance, kitchen appliance segment is around 4000 crores. And we said we are doing around 250. That is correct. Everybody is very fragment, it is an extremely fragment in market. Got it, okay. And what would you say TTK Prestige key strength relative to competition, is it branding is it distribution reach, is it manufacturing expertise or all of the above? T.T. Jagannathan Abhijit Akella Moderator All of the above. Okay. All right, thank you so much. Thank you Mr. Akella. Our next question is from the line of Amit Vohra of TCS Securities, please go ahead. Amit Vohra T.T. Jagannathan Amit Vohra Moderator What is the cash currently on books? About 50 crores as of now. Okay. Most of my questions have been answered, thanks. Thank you Mr. Vohra. We have a follow up question from the line of Umesh Gupta of Reliance Wealth Management, please go ahead. Umesh Gupta Yeah, on the exports what are the currently exporting in terms of revenue and what are the main export market where we are doing business? T.T. Jagannathan Currently revenue is very small which is about 25 crores, it could go up to 30 crore this year may be. And we export to UK, Middle East, Australia, South East Asia, Africa, and US nearly all over the globe.

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Umesh Gupta So the reason for a small number is that we are currently now focusing on those markets or do you think that the markets for us are not significant. T.T. Jagannathan No, there was a capacity concern in FY11 and we decided that we serve in the Indian market first to protect the brand and supply abroad. As and when the capacity constraints ease over the next year we will start focusing more on export. Umesh Gupta T.T. Jagannathan Umesh Gupta Moderator But you said next year also you will be targeting about 30 crores revenue? We are targeting yes, the growth in export comes very slowly, its not like India. Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you Mr. Gupta. We have a follow question from the line of Ruchita Maheshwari of Nirmal Bang Securities, please go ahead. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Sir, are we planning for any capacity expansion as such? I have given that details, I said we are going to be investing 250 crores over the next 15 months. Yeah, I just wanted to know in which? In pressure cooker or? I also answered that question, pressure cooker we will go up from the current capacity from 4 million to 10 million, cookware will go up to from the current capacity of 3 million to 10 million, I have answered both those questions. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Sir, I joined late thats why. Okay. 3 million to and appliances will be. Appliances we just investing a small amount in capacity expansion that will come probably in the year FY13. Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari Okay sir. And cookware from 3 million to, I missed that number. 3 million to 10 million cookware and 4 million to 10 million pressure cooker. Okay sir. And what is the current capacity utilization as of now?

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T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari T.T. Jagannathan Ruchita Maheshwari Moderator I would say above 100%. Above 100%. Okay. And so by what time will these capacities be operationalize? Hopefully, before the end of FY12. End of FY12. Yeah before. Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you Ms. Maheshwari. Our next question is from the line of Aliasgar Shakir of Elara Capital, please go ahead. Aliasgar Shakir Sir, I were just wondering, you gave the industry data in all the segments where you are operating, which is pressure cooker, cookware, and appliances, what I was just trying to understand obviously you have also outgrown the industry by quite a bit consistently. So what is the opportunity that we see domestically in all these segments in terms of penetration what about the data that you probably must be sourcing, what is the opportunity that we see in terms of growth, in terms of the maximum maturity or saturation in any of these industries? T.T. Jagannathan Nowhere near saturate in fact whats happening is all sectors pressure cookers, cookware and appliances have grown significantly, we expect growth to accelerate actually in the market. Aliasgar Shakir In that case, where if I have to understand on the scale of one to 100 whatever in terms of percentage, in terms of penetration where, we like at 20% or 80% of the market is still untapped or they are at 80% or we are 20%, just to understand how large is the opportunity in this. T.T. Jagannathan In pressure cookers I would say, the penetration about 40% but even those that 40% by second cooker, third cooker, and throwing away the old cookers and buy new cooker as far as non-stick cooker I dont feel it has penetrated even 10%. So we got huge opportunity, same in appliances. Aliasgar Shakir Okay. So cookware and basically appliances you are saying, we must at penetration as lesser than 10%. T.T. Jagannathan That is correct.

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Aliasgar Shakir Okay. And pressure cooker I think also when you say 40% I think is much of an inflated number because in terms of household we may not have more than 20% household with pressure cooker actually. T.T. Jagannathan Aliasgar Shakir You may be right. Okay. So then but again when you say 80% is untapped we would also have to factor that quite a large part of this 80% remaining untapped also does not have the pertaining power to still buy an appliance. So factoring all that I just wanted to understand, let us assume we are at 4000 crore today, where do we see the market 5 years, 10 years down the line? T.T. Jagannathan That is correct. Share is about, balance 80% . Over the next 10 year maybe we have the penetration can go up from the current 10% to maybe 25%. Aliasgar Shakir T.T. Jagannathan Aliasgar Shakir Moderator So that is the sort of growth? Yeah, there is a large of growth levels in the market. Right, thanks a lot. Thank you Mr. Shakir. Ladies and gentleman that appears to be the last question, I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. T.T. Jagannathan Thanks everyone for joining the conference call. I hope you had received sufficient replies for their questions. In case if you had any further questions, you can always call us or e-mail-mail, we will try to reply Thank you. Moderator Thank you very much, members of the management team. Ladies and gentleman with that we conclude this conference call. Thank you for joining us and you may disconnect your lines now. Thank you.

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