1 1

1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

2 OFFICE OF POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION

5 PUBLIC REGIONAL HEARING ON

6 NEGOTIATED RULEMAKING

9
10 Loyola University – Water Tower Campus
11 Rubloff Auditorium – 1st Floor
12 820 N. Michigan Avenue
13 Chicago, Illinois 60611

14 Thursday, October 5, 2006

15 9:02 A.M. – 3:30 P.M.

4
5
 6 2
7

1
2
3D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n P a n e l M e m b e r s :
4
5
6D a n i e l T. M a d z e l a n
7D i r e c t o r o f F o r e c a s t i n g a n d P o l i c y A n a l y s i s S t a f f
8
9J e f f r e y Ta y l o r
10D e p u t y G e n e r a l C o u n s e l f o r P o s t s e c o n d a r y a n d R e g u l a t o r y A f f a i r s
11O f f i c e o f G e n e r a l C o u n s e l
12
13C a r n e y M c C u l l o u g h
14S e n i o r P r o g r a m A n a l y s t
15P o l i c y a n d B u d g e t D e v e l o p m e n t S t a f f

9
10
11 3
12

1P R O C E E D I N G S

21 PHIL HALE: Good morning. Would everyone

3h a v e a s e a t , p l e a s e ?

4 My name is Phil Hale. I am Vice President

5o f P u b l i c A f f a i r s h e r e a t L o y o l a U n i v e r s i t y ,

6C h i c a g o . Thank you all for coming.

7 We are very honored to have the

8o p p o r t u n i t y t o h o s t t h i s p u b l i c h e a r i n g f o r t h e

9U . S . D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n , a n d I a m v e r y

10d e l i g h t e d t o h a v e t h i s o p p o r t u n i t y t o w e l c o m e a l l

11o f y o u t o o u r W a t e r T o w e r C a m p u s .

12 Let me start with some housekeeping, if I

13m a y . First of all, the bathrooms are over here,

14o u t s i d e o f t h e r o o m t o m y l e f t . There is also

15w a t e r o u t s i d e t h a t w i l l b e r e f r e s h e d t h r o u g h o u t

16t h e d a y . For those of you who are planning to

17m a k e a d a y o f i t , a f t e r l u n c h w e w i l l h a v e s o m e

18c a f f e i n a t e d b e v e r a g e s a n d s o m e c o o k i e s t o k e e p y o u

19g o i n g .

20 I would also like to encourage those of

21y o u w h o a r e a l s o p l a n n i n g t o b e h e r e f o r a w h i l e

22t o s i t i n a l i t t l e b i t t o w a r d s t h e c e n t e r . This

23i s a n i c e a u d i t o r i u m , b u t w e a l w a y s h a v e t h i s

24t e n d e n c y - - e v e r y o n e s i t s a l o n g t h e a i s l e s a n d s i t s

13

14
15
16 4
17

1i n t h e b a c k a n d t h e n l a t e c o m e r s c o m e a n d t h e y a r e

2t o o e m b a r r a s s e d . So there are a lot of empty

3s e a t s , b u t t h e r e i s t h i s c l u s t e r o f p e o p l e i n t h e

4b a c k . We have no idea how many people to expect,

5b u t I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t w e a r e a l r e a d y p r e t t y f u l l

6f o r t h i s m o r n i n g ’ s t e s t i m o n y . So just be aware of

7p e o p l e t h a t m a y b e c o m i n g i n l a t e , i f y o u w o u l d ,

8p l e a s e .

9 Before I introduce our panelists from the

10D e p a r t m e n t a n d b e f o r e w e l a u n c h i n t o t h e p u b l i c

11t e s t i m o n y , I w o u l d j u s t l i k e t o a s k i f w e c o u l d

12j u s t s t e p b a c k f o r a m i n u t e a n d r e m i n d o u r s e l v e s

13v e r y b r i e f l y o f w h a t w e a r e a l l a b o u t . We all

14c o m e h e r e t o d a y w i t h s o m e v e r y p a r t i c u l a r i s s u e s

15t h a t w e w a n t t o d i s c u s s a n d t o s h a r e w i t h t h e

16D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n , b u t w e a r e h e r e b e c a u s e

17t h e s e i s s u e s a l l p e r t a i n t o F e d e r a l f u n d i n g f o r

18p o s t s e c o n d a r y e d u c a t i o n a n d , l i k e e v e r y o t h e r

19l e v e l o f e d u c a t i o n , f u n d i n g f o r h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

20i s v e r y m u c h a n i n v e s t m e n t o n t h e p a r t o f t h e

21F e d e r a l g o v e r n m e n t , a n d a n i n v e s t m e n t t h a t h a s

22b e n e f i t s t h a t , I t h i n k , a c c r u e t o o u r e n t i r e

23s o c i e t y .

24 I used to have a doctor who used to say

18

19
20
21 5
22

1t h a t t h e r e i s n o p a n a c e a i n m e d i c i n e e x c e p t f o r

2p r o p e r w e i g h t c o n t r o l , a c h i e v e d t h r o u g h g o o d d i e t

3a n d e x e r c i s e . I think the same thing is true for

4s o c i a l i l l s , a s w e l l . There is no panacea for

5s o c i a l i l l s e x c e p t f o r e d u c a t i o n . We frequently

6d i s c u s s t h e b e n e f i t s o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a n d w h a t

7i t c a n d o f o r t h e i n d i v i d u a l s t u d e n t , a n d t h a t i s

8i m p o r t a n t , e s p e c i a l l y i n t e r m s o f t h e i r p o t e n t i a l

9f o r f u t u r e e a r n i n g s . Investments in higher

10e d u c a t i o n a l s o h a v e s o c i e t a l b e n e f i t s t h a t I t h i n k

11w e j u s t d o n o t t a l k a b o u t n e a r l y e n o u g h .

12 For example, in addition to preparing

13i n d i v i d u a l s f o r e m p l o y m e n t , h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

14p r e p a r e s s t u d e n t s t o b e g o o d c i t i z e n s , c i t i z e n s

15w h o a r e b e t t e r i n f o r m e d a b o u t i s s u e s , c i t i z e n s w h o

16a r e m o r e a c t i v e i n t h e i r c o m m u n i t i e s . Higher

17e d u c a t i o n a l s o f u e l s n e w t e c h n o l o g i e s a n d

18i n n o v a t i o n s t h a t a r e a t t h e v e r y l e a d i n g e d g e o f

19t h i s c o u n t r y ’ s e c o n o m i c d e v e l o p m e n t . Similarly,

20i t i s j u s t i m p o s s i b l e t o i m a g i n e , f o r e x a m p l e , o u r

21h e a l t h c a r e s y s t e m i n t h i s c o u n t r y w i t h o u t

22c o l l e g e - e d u c a t e d n u r s e s , d o c t o r s , r e s e a r c h e r s , a n d

23o t h e r p r o f e s s i o n a l s u p o n w h o m a l l o f u s d e p e n d ,

24r e a l l y , f o r o u r v e r y l i v e s .

23

24
25
26 6
27

1 So the programs we will be discussing

2t o d a y , l i k e A C G a n d S M A R T , h a v e a s o c i e t a l i m p a c t

3t h a t g o e s w e l l b e y o n d t h e i n d i v i d u a l s t u d e n t s w h o

4w i l l d i r e c t l y b e n e f i t f r o m t h e m . And I just think

5i t i s i m p o r t a n t t o r e m i n d o u r s e l v e s o f t h a t e v e r y

6o n c e i n a w h i l e . As you know, this public hearing

7i s o n e o f f o u r r e g i o n a l h e a r i n g s t h a t t h e U . S .

8D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n h a s s c h e d u l e d . We are

9v e r y h o n o r e d t o h o s t t h e M i d w e s t h e a r i n g , a n d I

10w a n t t o w e l c o m e a l l o f o u r p a n e l i s t s f r o m t h e

11D e p a r t m e n t w h o a r e h e r e t o d a y .

12 I would like to introduce, now, from the

13U . S . D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n , D a n M a d z e l a n ,

14D i r e c t o r o f F o r e c a s t i n g a n d P o l i c y A n a l y s i s S t a f f ,

15O f f i c e o f P o s t s e c o n d a r y E d u c a t i o n , U . S . D e p a r t m e n t

16o f E d u c a t i o n .

17 Did I get it right?

18 DAN MADZELAN: Yes.

19 PHIL HALE: All right. Thank you, Dan.

20 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you, Phil.

21 Phil did get my title correct. I do work

22i n a h i e r a r c h y a n d , p r e t t y m u c h , y o u r p o s i t i o n i n

23t h a t h i e r a r c h y i s d i r e c t l y r e l a t e d t o t h e l e n g t h

24o f y o u r t i t l e . You start with Secretary, Deputy

28

29
30
31 7
32

1S e c r e t a r y , A s s i s t a n t S e c r e t a r y , D i r e c t o r o f S t a f f

2f o r F o r e c a s t i n g a n d P o l i c y A n a l y s i s i n t h e O f f i c e

3o f P o s t s e c o n d a r y E d u c a t i o n .

4 So, at any rate, thanks to everyone for

5c o m i n g h e r e t o d a y . What I want to first do is

6i n t r o d u c e m y c o l l e a g u e s h e r e u p a t t h e h e a d t a b l e .

7 To your far right is Jeff Taylor. Jeff is

8o u r D e p u t y G e n e r a l C o u n s e l f o r P o s t s e c o n d a r y a n d

9R e g u l a t o r y A f f a i r s .

10 Seated next to Jeff and between Jeff and

11m y s e l f i s C a r n e y M c C u l l o u g h . Carney is with me in

12t h e O f f i c e o f P o s t s e c o n d a r y E d u c a t i o n . She is the

13S e n i o r P o l i c y A n a l y s t f o r t h e S t u d e n t F i n a n c i a l

14A i d P r o g r a m s .

15 As some of you probably know, we are

16r e q u i r e d b y s t a t u t e i n t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

17E d u c a t i o n , a n d w i t h r e s p e c t t o t h e s t u d e n t

18f i n a n c i a l a i d p r o g r a m s a u t h o r i z e d b y t h e T i t l e I V

19o f t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t , t o e n g a g e i n a

20p r o c e s s k n o w n a s n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g a n y t i m e w e

21w a n t t o i s s u e n e w r e g u l a t i o n s o r a m e n d e x i s t i n g

22r e g u l a t i o n s t h a t a f f e c t t h e T i t l e I V s t u d e n t

23f i n a n c i a l a i d p r o g r a m s .

24 We are required to do that except in a

33

34
35
36 8
37

1c o u p l e o f l i m i t e d c i r c u m s t a n c e s . We actually had

2o n e o f t h o s e l i m i t e d c i r c u m s t a n c e s t h i s p a s t y e a r

3w h e n t h e C o n g r e s s p a s s e d t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n

4R e c o n c i l i a t i o n A c t , w h i c h m a d e s i g n i f i c a n t c h a n g e s

5t o t h e s t u d e n t l o a n p r o g r a m , b u t a l s o m o r e

6i m p o r t a n t l y a u t h o r i z e d t w o n e w g r a n t p r o g r a m s , t h e

7A c a d e m i c C o m p e t i t i v e n e s s , a n d t h e N a t i o n a l S M A R T

8G r a n t p r o g r a m s . We just did not have time to go

9t h r o u g h a f u l l n o t i c e a n d c o m m e n t , n e g o t i a t e d

10r u l e m a k i n g p r o c e s s . So we did issue interim final

11r e g u l a t i o n s o n t h o s e p r o g r a m w i t h c o m m e n t s

12i n v i t e d , e x p e c t i n g t o i s s u e f i n a l r e g u l a t i o n s ,

13e s s e n t i a l l y f o r y e a r t w o o f t h e n e w g r a n t p r o g r a m s

14N o v e m b e r 1 s t . But again, we are on a pretty tight

15t i m e f r a m e a n d p r e t t y s t r i c t r e q u i r e m e n t s i n

16g e n e r a l .

17 So that is really why we are here today,

18t o s t a r t o f f t h i s n e x t n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g

19p r o c e s s . This is the fifth time that we will have

20u n d e r t a k e n t h i s p r o c e s s s i n c e t h e 1 9 9 2 H i g h e r

21E d u c a t i o n A m e n d m e n t . Carney and I have been

22i n v o l v e d i n – - I d o n o t k n o w i f a l l o f t h e m , b u t

23c e r t a i n l y m o s t o f t h e m . I have been a Federal

24n e g o t i a t o r o n t h r e e o c c a s i o n s .

38

39
40
41 9
42

1 The regional hearing that we are having

2t o d a y , a s w e l l t h e o n e t h a t w e h a d a c o u p l e o f

3w e e k s a g o i n B e r k e l e y a n d t h e t w o t h a t w e h a v e

4u p c o m i n g , i s r e a l l y t h e f i r s t s t e p i n t h i s

5n e g o t i a t i n g r u l e m a k i n g p r o c e s s . We want to hear

6f r o m t h e a f f e c t e d e n t i t i e s , t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

7c o m m u n i t y , a b o u t t h e t h i n g s t h a t w e o u g h t t o b e

8r e g u l a t i n g .

9 Basically, our process for negotiated

10r u l e m a k i n g i s t h a t w e h a v e t h e s e r e g i o n a l

11h e a r i n g s . We also invite comment. We essentially

12a l s o s o l i c i t n o n - f e d e r a l n e g o t i a t o r s . That was in

13o u r A u g u s t 1 8 t h n o t i c e . You have until November

149 t h t o s u b m i t y o u r s e l f o r s o m e o n e y o u k n o w a s a

15n o n - F e d e r a l n e g o t i a t o r . Then, I think we have it

16s c h e d u l e d f o r D e c e m b e r - - s i t d o w n a n d b a s i c a l l y

17h a v e o u r f i r s t n e g o t i a t i n g s e s s i o n i n W a s h i n g t o n ,

18D . C . Typically, we have had four or five of these

19s e s s i o n s o v e r a p e r i o d o f f o u r t o f i v e m o n t h s

20w h e r e w e a l l s i t a r o u n d t h e t a b l e a n d w e c r a f t t h e

21a c t u a l l a n g u a g e f o r n o t i c e o f p r o p o s e d r u l e m a k i n g .

22G e n e r a l l y , w e f i n i s h t h a t u p i n M a y o r J u n e . We

23h a v e e s t a b l i s h e d a l i t t l e b i t m o r e a g g r e s s i v e t i m e

24p e r i o d t h i s t i m e a r o u n d . We are actually starting

43

44
45
46 10
47

1t h i s p r o c e s s a m o n t h o r s o e a r l i e r .

2 As far as what it is that we are

3n e g o t i a t i n g , t h a t i s w h y w e w a n t t o h e a r f r o m y o u .

4B a s i c a l l y , w e d o h a v e o n e i t e m t h a t w e w i l l

5n e g o t i a t e . The Secretary announced this in this

6p a s t M a y t h a t – - y o u p r o b a b l y k n o w f o r t h e A c a d e m i c

7C o m p e t i t i v e G r a n t s p r o g r a m , t h a t o n e o f t h e

8e l i g i b i l i t y r e q u i r e m e n t s i s t h a t a s t u d e n t c a n

9p l e a d a r i g o r o u s p r o g r a m o f s e c o n d a r y e d u c a t i o n .

10W h a t d o e s t h a t m e a n ? Well, we made a stab at it,

11a n d w e h a v e t h e S e c r e t a r y ’ s l e t t e r o f l a s t M a y , a s

12w e l l a s s o m e r e g u l a t o r y l a n g u a g e , b u t t h a t i s t h e

13o n e i t e m t h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t h a s c o m m i t t e d t o

14n e g o t i a t i n g . Everything else is open.

15 We know, beyond that one issue, that there

16h a s b e e n c o n c e r n r a i s e d o u t i n t h e c o m m u n i t y a b o u t

17t h e S e c r e t a r y ’ s C o m m i s s i o n o n H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n a n d

18t h e i r r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s , w h a t t h e S e c r e t a r y m a y t r y

19t o d o i n t e r m s o f i m p l e m e n t i n g s o m e o f t h o s e

20r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s t h r o u g h r e g u l a t i o n s . Again, I can

21s a y n o d e c i s i o n s h a v e b e e n m a d e o n t h a t . We had

22a l s o l e f t r o o m i n t h i s p r o c e s s f o r n e g o t i a t i n g a n y

23i t e m s t h a t m a y h a v e c o m e o u t o f a n y

24r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n i n t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t , b u t

48

49
50
51 11
52

1s i n c e t h e c u r r e n t a u t h o r i t y f o r t h e H i g h e r

2E d u c a t i o n A c t h a s b e e n e x t e n d e d y e t a g a i n , t h i s

3t i m e t o J u n e 3 0 , 2 0 0 7 , w e a r e n o t r e a l l y l o o k i n g

4a t a n y r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n i t e m s i n t h i s p a r t i c u l a r

5n e g o t i a t i n g r u l e m a k i n g s e s s i o n .

6 For today, many of you have signed up to

7s p e a k . We are going to give you five minutes to

8s p e a k . These sessions will have a transcriber and

9r e c o r d e r , s o p l e a s e , w h e n y o u s t e p u p t o t h e

10m i c r o p h o n e , s t a t e y o u r n a m e , s t a t e y o u r

11a f f i l i a t i o n , a n d t h e n y o u h a v e f i v e m i n u t e s t o

12s p e a k . We are not going to cut off at five

13m i n u t e s . We do not have a series of lights here,

14b u t w e a r e n o t g o i n g l e t y o u r a m b l e o n , e i t h e r ,

15b e c a u s e w e d o h a v e a s c h e d u l e a n d w e a r e g o i n g t o

16t r y a n d s t i c k w i t h i t .

17 We have scheduled a break at 10:30, but

18t h a t w o u l d o b v i o u s l y b e m o r e f o r u s t h a n f o r y o u

19g u y s . If we, you know, feel that we have good

20m o m e n t u m , k i n d o f a g o o d d i s c u s s i o n , o r i f w e a r e

21h e a r i n g g o o d t h i n g s , t h e n w e w i l l j u s t g o t h r o u g h

22t i l l l u n c h t i m e . We will break for lunch at–-is

23t h a t n o o n , o n t h e r e ?

24 Okay, 12:00 to 1:00, we will have a break

53

54
55
56 12
57

1f o r l u n c h .

2 Again, please speak into the microphone

3a n d I w i l l b e – - I g u e s s I a m t h e t i m e k e e p e r , a n d I

4w i l l c a l l p e o p l e t o t h e m i c r o p h o n e e s s e n t i a l l y i n

5t h e o r d e r t h a t y o u h a v e s i g n e d u p .

6 Again, just in closing, we are here today

7t o l i s t e n . If you have a question, we will be

8h a p p y t o a n s w e r i t . We are not committing to

9a n y t h i n g t o d a y . That is what the actual

10n e g o t i a t i n g s e s s i o n s a r e a b o u t . But again, we are

11v e r y i n t e r e s t e d i n h e a r i n g w h a t i s o n y o u r m i n d ,

12w h a t y o u h a v e t o s a y , w h a t y o u t h i n k t h e

13D e p a r t m e n t s h o u l d b e d o i n g w i t h r e s p e c t t o m o v i n g

14t h e s e T i t l e I V s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m s f o r w a r d .

15 And with that, I will call our first

16s p e a k e r , M i r i a m P r i d e , t o t h e m i c r o p h o n e .

17 MIRIAM PRIDE: Which microphone?

18 DAN MADZELAN: Any one you like. Thank

19y o u .

20 MIRIAM PRIDE: First of all, I want to say

21t h a n k y o u t o P h i l H a l e a n d t o L o y o l a f o r h o s t i n g

22u s , a n d t h a n k y o u t o o u r p a r t n e r s a n d c o l l e a g u e s

23f r o m t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n f o r h a v i n g t h e

24c o u r a g e t o s t e p o u t s i d e t h e B e l t w a y a n d h a v e a

58

59
60
61 13
62

1c o n v e r s a t i o n w i t h u s a t o u r h o m e t e r r i t o r i e s .

2 Good morning, everyone. My name is Miriam

3P r i d e , M i m P r i d e , f r o m B l a c k b u r n C o l l e g e . I come

4t o d a y p r i m a r i l y a s a r e p r e s e n t a t i v e o f t h e W o r k

5C o l l e g e s . Blackburn College is a small, private,

6l i b e r a l a r t s c o l l e g e t h a t i s a f f i l i a t e d w i t h t h e

7P r e s b y t e r i a n C h u r c h l o c a t e d i n C a r l i n v i l l e ,

8I l l i n o i s . We enroll slightly more than 600

9s t u d e n t s , a l l o f w h o m e n g a g e i n s o m e f o r m o f w o r k

10o n c a m p u s a n d p e r f o r m c o m m u n i t y s e r v i c e a s p a r t o f

11t h e i r a c a d e m i c p r o g r a m a n d a s p a r t o f t h e

12r e q u i r e m e n t s f o r g r a d u a t i o n .

13 We are one of seven Work Colleges,

14i n c l u d i n g s e v e n W o r k C o l l e g e s t h a t r e c e i v e F e d e r a l

15f u n d s u n d e r S e c t i o n 4 4 8 o f t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n

16A c t , a s r e v i s e d 1 9 6 5 . Those colleges include

17A l i c e L l o y d , B e r e a C o l l e g e i n K e n t u c k y , C o l l e g e o f

18t h e O z a r k s i n M i s s o u r i , S t e r l i n g C o l l e g e i n

19V e r m o n t , B l a c k b u r n i n I l l i n o i s , E c c l e s i a i n

20A r k a n s a s , a n d W a r r e n W i l s o n i n N o r t h C a r o l i n a .

21 While there are no specific issues in a

22n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g s e s s i o n t h a t w i l l b e

23c o n v e n e d l a t e r t h i s y e a r a n d e a r l y n e x t y e a r t h a t

24d i r e c t l y a f f e c t t h e W o r k C o l l e g e s , w e d o b e l i e v e

63

64
65
66 14
67

1t h a t o u r v o i c e s h o u l d b e h e a r d i n t h e n e g o t i a t e d

2r u l e m a k i n g s e s s i o n s . This is especially true as

3i t r e l a t e s t o t h e v e r y r e a l c o n c e r n s o f s m a l l e r ,

4i n d e p e n d e n t , l i b e r a l a r t s i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d t h e

5s t u d e n t s t h a t t h e y s e r v e , m o s t e s p e c i a l l y a s i t

6r e l a t e s t o t h e o v e r a r c h i n g c o n c e r n o f k e e p i n g t h e

7c o s t o f c o l l e g e w i t h i n t h e r e a c h o f l o w - a n d

8m i d d l e - i n c o m e f a m i l i e s a n d s t u d e n t s w h o a t t e n d t h e

9W o r k C o l l e g e s .

10 Work College students largely come from

11f a m i l i e s t h a t c a n b a r e l y a f f o r d a c o l l e g e

12e d u c a t i o n . Berea College and College of the

13O z a r k s r e c r u i t o n l y s t u d e n t s w h o s e e x p e c t e d f a m i l y

14c o n t r i b u t i o n i s s o l o w t h a t t h e y c a n n o t b e

15e x p e c t e d t o c o n t r i b u t e a n y t h i n g t o t u i t i o n .

16F o r t y - o n e p e r c e n t o f B l a c k b u r n s t u d e n t s a r e t h e

17f i r s t i n t h e i r f a m i l y t o g o t o c o l l e g e .

18 We are able to keep tuition low in our

19i n s t i t u t i o n s b e c a u s e s t u d e n t s c o n t r i b u t e b y t h e i r

20w o r k t o t h e w o r k o f t h e i n s t i t u t i o n a n d l o w e r t h e

21c o s t o f c o l l e g e . We also, all of us, raise

22s u b s t a n t i a l p r i v a t e f u n d s .

23 Most of our students complete a

24b a c c a l a u r e a t e d e g r e e w i t h a m i n i m u m o f l o a n

68

69
70
71 15
72

1i n d e b t e d n e s s a n d w i t h i n f o u r y e a r s . The only

2m a j o r e x c e p t i o n t o t h a t i s t e a c h e r p r e p a r a t i o n

3s t u d e n t s w h o , t y p i c a l l y , n o w a r e t a k i n g f o u r - a n d -

4a - h a l f y e a r s .

5 We believe we have a unique perspective to

6c o n t r i b u t e t o t h e o n g o i n g d e b a t e a b o u t c o l l e g e

7s t u d e n t c o s t s , s t u d e n t i n d e b t e d n e s s , a n d

8i n s t i t u t i o n a l a c c o u n t a b i l i t y f o r F e d e r a l s t u d e n t

9a i d f u n d s . We believe that the Work College

10e x p e r i e n c e a n d t h e p o i n t o f v i e w s h o u l d b e h e a r d

11a t t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g t a b l e .

12 In the past, the Work Colleges have been

13i n d i r e c t p a r t i c i p a n t s i n t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g

14s e s s i o n s . However, during the Neg. Reg.,

15f o l l o w i n g t h e e n a c t m e n t o f t h e 1 9 9 8 H i g h e r

16E d u c a t i o n A m e n d m e n t s , t h e p r o c e s s o f s e l e c t i n g

17i n s t i t u t i o n a l r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s b y t h e U . S .

18D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n c h a n g e d .

19 First, the major Washington-based

20a s s o c i a t i o n s w e r e l a r g e l y i g n o r e d i n t h e p r o c e s s

21o f s e l e c t i n g p e r s o n s t o r e p r e s e n t t h e v a r i o u s

22s e c t o r s i n t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n c o m m u n i t y . While

23i n d i v i d u a l s w e r e s e l e c t e d f r o m t h o s e s e c t o r s , t h e y

24d i d n o t n e c e s s a r i l y r e p r e s e n t t h o s e s e c t o r s , n o r

73

74
75
76 16
77

1d i d t h e y h a v e e f f e c t i v e l i n e s o f c o m m u n i c a t i o n o r

2w a y s o f e x p r e s s i n g t h e v i e w s o f t h o s e

3a s s o c i a t i o n s .

4 Second, not all sectors, and particularly

5t h e s m a l l e r l i b e r a l a r t s c o l l e g e s , w e r e

6e f f e c t i v e l y r e p r e s e n t e d . The Work Colleges urge

7t h e S e c r e t a r y t o a s s u r e t h e p r e s e n c e a n d a c t u a l

8r e p r e s e n t a t i o n o f a l l s e c t o r s , a n d a l l p o i n t s o f

9v i e w , a n d t o e n s u r e t h a t a b a l a n c e d v i e w p o i n t i s

10p r e s e n t e d a r o u n d t h e n e g r e g t a b l e w h e n k e y i s s u e s

11r e l a t e d t o a l l o f t h e F e d e r a l s t u d e n t l o a n

12p r o g r a m s , t h e n e w F e d e r a l g r a n t p r o g r a m s , a n d

13o t h e r i m p o r t a n t s t u d e n t f i n a n c e i s s u e s a n d

14p o l i c i e s a f f e c t i n g s t u d e n t s a n d t h e i r p a r e n t s a r e

15d i s c u s s e d .

16 Just a few weeks ago I attended a very

17w o n d e r f u l c o n f e r e n c e i n N o r t h C a r o l i n a . The most

18e l i t e i n s t i t u t i o n s i n t h i s c o u n t r y w e r e p r e s e n t .

19S o m e o f y o u h e r e w e r e p r e s e n t . The conference was

20w e l l f u n d e d . The best demographers, financial aid

21e x p e r t s , p e o p l e w h o c a r e d e e p l y a b o u t y o u n g p e o p l e

22w e r e d i s c u s s i n g h o w t o p r o v i d e a c c e s s f o r a b l e ,

23l o w - n e e d s t u d e n t s a n d t h e y s t r u g g l e d w i t h t h a t

24i s s u e f o r t h r e e o r f o u r d a y s . At the end of the

78

79
80
81 17
82

1c o n f e r e n c e I l e f t s a d b e c a u s e n o w h e r e a t t h e t a b l e

2w e r e m y c o l l e a g u e s f r o m t h e H B C U s , o r f r o m B e r e a ,

3o r f r o m B l o o m f i e l d C o l l e g e , t h e p e o p l e w h o , f o r

4d e c a d e s , h a v e s e r v e d t h o s e p o p u l a t i o n s w e l l . In

5t h e c a s e s o f B e r e a a n d B l a c k b u r n , f o r a l m o s t 1 5 0

6y e a r s .

7 It would be sad indeed if higher education

8h a s r e a c h e d t h e p o i n t w h e r e t h e p r i v a t e , l i b e r a l

9a r t s t e a c h i n g i n s t i t u t i o n s a r e n o t r e p r e s e n t e d a t

10t h e t a b l e w h e n p u b l i c p o l i c y a b o u t h i g h e r

11e d u c a t i o n i s b e i n g m a d e .

12 We would also encourage the Secretary to

13u s e h e r c o n s i d e r a b l e i n f l u e n c e t o u r g e t h e

14C o n g r e s s t o c o m p l e t e t h e r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n o f t h e

15H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t , e s p e c i a l l y t h o s e p a r t s

16p r o v i d i n g F e d e r a l P e l l G r a n t , s u p p l e m e n t a l g r a n t ,

17F S E O G , a n d F e d e r a l W o r k - S t u d y f o r n e e d y s t u d e n t s .

18 Thank you.

19 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

20 DAN MADZELAN: David Preble.

21 DAVID PREBLE: Good morning. Thanks for

22h a v i n g u s h e r e .

23 I am Dr. David Preble, Director of the

24C o m m i s s i o n o n D e n t a l A c c r e d i t a t i o n o f t h e A m e r i c a n

83

84
85
86 18
87

1D e n t a l A s s o c i a t i o n . The Commission on Dental

2A c c r e d i t a t i o n a c c r e d i t s o v e r 1 , 3 0 0 a n d i s t h e

3a c c r e d i t i n g b o d y r e c o g n i z e d b y t h e U . S . D e p a r t m e n t

4o f E d u c a t i o n f o r d e n t a l , a d v a n c e d d e n t a l , d e n t a l

5s p e c i a l t y , a n d a l l i e d d e n t a l e d u c a t i o n .

6 As their representative, I will be

7l i m i t i n g m y c o m m e n t s t o a c c r e d i t a t i o n i s s u e s .

8F i r s t o f a l l , w e d o a p p l a u d t h e S e c r e t a r y f o r

9m e n t i o n i n g i n h e r r a d i o a d d r e s s t h a t s h e w o u l d b e

10m e e t i n g w i t h a c c r e d i t o r s t o t a l k a b o u t s o m e o f t h e

11i s s u e s t h a t c a m e o u t o f t h e C o m m i s s i o n r e p o r t .

12 It is important to recognize that

13s p e c i a l i z e d , p r o f e s s i o n a l a c c r e d i t a t i o n i s

14d i f f e r e n t i n m a n y w a y s f r o m i n s t i t u t i o n a l

15a c c r e d i t a t i o n . Specialized accreditation deals

16w i t h d e v e l o p m e n t o f c o m p e t e n t p r a c t i t i o n e r s , a n d

17t h e C o m m i s s i o n o n D e n t a l A c c r e d i t a t i o n i n

18p a r t i c u l a r r e q u i r e s t h a t p r o g r a m s p r o v i d e o u t c o m e

19m e a s u r e s t h a t p r o v i d e t h e p u b l i c w i t h v e r y u s e f u l

20i n f o r m a t i o n o n p r o g r a m c o m p l e t i o n , s u c c e s s o n

21l i c e n s u r e e x a m s , a n d e m p l o y m e n t r a t e s .

22 Our program’s on-time completion rates are

23e x e m p l a r y , g e n e r a l l y o v e r 9 5 p e r c e n t , a n d s u c c e s s

24r a t e s o n l i c e n s u r e e x a m s a r e s i m i l a r l y h i g h .

88

89
90
91 19
92

1S p e c i a l i z e d a c c r e d i t a t i o n i s a d i s c i p l i n e - s p e c i f i c

2r e v i e w p r o c e s s b a s e d o n p r o f e s s i o n a l e x p e r t i s e

3t h a t t a k e s y e a r s t o d e v e l o p . We do involve public

4r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s i n t h e p r o c e s s , b u t w e b e l i e v e

5t h i s i s m o s t a p p r o p r i a t e a t t h e d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g

6l e v e l w h e r e t h e p u b l i c c a n m o s t e f f e c t i v e l y

7o v e r s e e t h e p r o c e s s .

8 Accreditors provide accurate and

9a p p r o p r i a t e p u b l i c i n f o r m a t i o n . We feel it is

10a l s o i m p o r t a n t t o r e c o g n i z e t h a t a c c r e d i t a t i o n i s

11n o t s i m p l y a n e v a l u a t i o n p r o c e s s , b u t o n e t h a t

12a l s o f o s t e r s i m p r o v e m e n t . In order to maintain

13t h e i n t e g r i t y o f t h e p r o c e s s , n o t a l l a s p e c t s o f

14t h e p r o c e s s a r e a p p r o p r i a t e t o b e m a d e p u b l i c

15b e c a u s e o f t h e c h i l l i n g e f f e c t t h a t w o u l d h a v e o n

16p r o g r a m c a n d o r , a n e c e s s a r y c o m p o n e n t t o d e v e l o p

17u s e f u l r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s f o r i m p r o v e m e n t .

18 Accreditors throughout–-not just

19s p e c i a l i z e d a c c r e d i t o r s , w o r k t o k e e p t h e c o s t s

20a s s o c i a t e d w i t h a c c r e d i t a t i o n r e a s o n a b l e . Some of

21t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s i n t h e C o m m i s s i o n r e p o r t w o u l d

22c r e a t e a n u n d u e b u r d e n i n t i m e a n d m o n e y w i t h o u t

23p r o v i d i n g s i g n i f i c a n t b e n e f i t . Since a major

24t h r u s t o f t h e r e p o r t i s c o s t c o n t a i n m e n t i n

93

94
95
96 20
97

1e d u c a t i o n , w e r e c o m m e n d c a r e f u l c o n s i d e r a t i o n o f

2c o n s e q u e n c e s b e f o r e a c t i n g , s u c h a s p o t e n t i a l f o r

3i n c r e a s e d l i t i g a t i o n , m a i n t e n a n c e o f i n c r e a s i n g l y

4e x t e n s i v e d a t a b a s e s , i n c l u s i o n o f p u b l i c m e m b e r s ,

5o n s i t e v i s i t t e a m s , e t c e t e r a .

6 From a process standpoint, we are in

7a g r e e m e n t w i t h a l e t t e r f r o m m e m b e r s o f t h e

8C o m m i t t e e o n H e a l t h E d u c a t i o n , L a b o r , a n d P e n s i o n s

9r e g a r d i n g c o n c e r n a b o u t n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g f o r

10C o m m i s s i o n r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s b e f o r e l e g i s l a t i v e

11a c t i o n . In the absence of new legislation

12s p e c i f i c a l l y o n a c c r e d i t a t i o n , w e s e e n o

13j u s t i f i c a t i o n f o r n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g .

14 And lastly, again, we advise caution in

15l u m p i n g a l l a c c r e d i t a t i o n a n d e d u c a t i o n i s s u e s i n

16o n e b a s k e t w h e n c o n s i d e r i n g r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s . We

17b e l i e v e s p e c i a l i z e d , p r o f e s s i o n a l a c c r e d i t o r s h a v e

18s h o w n s t r e n g t h a n d s u c c e s s i n a r e a s t h a t m a y b e a

19c o n c e r n f o r u n d e r g r a d u a t e i n s t i t u t i o n s .

20 Thanks for the opportunity to share my

21t h o u g h t s .

22 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you very much.

23 Also, I will do my best, but if I

24m i s p r o n o u n c e y o u r n a m e , p l e a s e a c c e p t m y a p o l o g y .

98

99
100
101 21
102

1T h a t i s p a r t o f t h e r e a s o n w h y w e a s k y o u t o s a y

2i t y o u r s e l f . With a name like Madzelan I am a

3l i t t l e a c c u s t o m e d t o t h a t , a s w e l l .

4 DAN MADZELAN: Umair Mamsa.

5 UMAIR MAMSA: Dear Department of

6E d u c a t i o n , m y n a m e i s U m a i r M a m s a , a n d t h a n k y o u

7f o r t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o s p e a k t o d a y a t t h e h e a r i n g .

8 I am a junior at the University of

9I l l i n o i s i n C h i c a g o , m a j o r i n g i n p h i l o s o p h y a n d

10p o l i t i c a l s c i e n c e . As a student, I believe that

11t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n s h o u l d m a k e h i g h e r

12e d u c a t i o n a c c e p t a b l e a n d a f f o r d a b l e , a n d t h a t a l l

13t h o s e t h a t h o p e f o r a q u a l i t y e d u c a t i o n c a n a l s o

14h a v e t h e o p p o r t u n i t y , j o y , a n d s a t i s f a c t i o n t o

15c a l l t h e m s e l v e s a s t u d e n t o n e d a y .

16 Historically, the affordability of

17e d u c a t i o n w e n t t h r o u g h t h r e e p h a s e s , a s I v i e w i t ,

18l u x u r y , p r i v i l e g e , a n d o p p o r t u n i t y . Today it is a

19n e c e s s i t y .

20 First, in the early days, with the birth

21o f t h e b e s t A m e r i c a n u n i v e r s i t i e s , a c o l l e g e

22d e g r e e w a s r e v e r e d a s a l u x u r y f o r t h e r i c h a n d

23a f f l u e n t m e m b e r s o f s o c i e t y . Later on, as

24c o l l e g e s b e c a m e a l o t m o r e e m i n e n t a n d m o r e b e g a n

103

104
105
106 22
107

1t o e m e r g e , i t b e c a m e a p r i v i l e g e f o r t h e m i d d l e

2c l a s s a n d i t b e c a m e a l i t t l e b i t e a s i e r t o g o t o

3c o l l e g e .

4 Then we moved on to the opportunity phase.

5I n t h e l a t e 1 9 6 0 s , t h e r e w a s n e w o p t i m i s m a n d h o p e

6w i t h t h e p a s s a g e o f t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t a n d

7f i n a n c i a l a i d p r o g r a m s . Through hardworking

8p a r e n t s ’ l i f e l o n g s a v i n g s a n d s t u d e n t s ’ h a r d w o r k ,

9t h e y c o u l d o p e n a w i n d o w f o r o p p o r t u n i t y w i t h

10s c h o l a r s h i p s a n d l o a n s . The dream of belonging to

11a n i n t e l l e c t u a l c o m m u n i t y , t o s t u d y t h e a r t s a n d

12h u m a n i t i e s , r e s e a r c h a n d l e a r n t h e s c i e n c e s ,

13e x p a n d t h e m i n d , c o u l d b e m a d e p o s s i b l e .

14 But contrasting that to today, education

15i n t o d a y ’ s s o c i e t y i s m o r e t h a n a l u x u r y a n d a

16p r i v i l e g e . It is a necessity for the individual,

17a n e c e s s i t y t h a t w i l l e n s u r e o n e ’ s p u r s u i t o f

18h a p p i n e s s , t h e a b i l i t y t o s u c c e e d i n t h e

19w o r k f o r c e , a n d s e c u r e t h e f i n a n c i a l w e l l - b e i n g a n d

20t o p r o v i d e f o r t h e i r l o v e d o n e s . It is also a

21n e c e s s i t y f o r s o c i e t y , w i t h t a x p a y e r d o l l a r s , a n d

22t h o s e d o l l a r s f u n n e l r i g h t b a c k i n t o s o c i e t y . A

23s o c i e t y c a n n o t f u n c t i o n w i t h o u t i t s d o c t o r s ,

24l a w y e r s , t e a c h e r s , s c i e n t i s t s , a n d r e s e a r c h e r s a s

108

109
110
111 23
112

1t h e y p r o v i d e s e r v i c e s a n d a w e a l t h o f k n o w l e d g e

2f o r t h e c o m m u n i t y . Education, thus, is a self-

3s u s t a i n i n g i n v e s t m e n t f o r s o c i e t y t o e n s u r e i t s

4w e l l - b e i n g a n d t h e m e c h a n i s m t o e n s u r e a n e d u c a t e d

5c i t i z e n r y .

6 So, in order to meet this necessity, the

7b u r d e n f a l l s o n t h e s t u d e n t a n d h i s o r h e r

8p a r e n t s . Today, the primary stress of the student

9i s h o w t h e y a r e g o i n g t o p a y t h e i r c o l l e g e b i l l ,

10a f f o r d t h e s k y r o c k e t i n g c o s t o f t e x t b o o k s , a n d

11w o r k i n c r e a s i n g l y l o n g h o u r s , o f t e n a t m i n i m u m

12w a g e s a l a r i e s , a n d t h e l a s t w o r r y i s s t r u g g l i n g t o

13f i n d t i m e t o s t u d y . As a result, the education

14t h a t o n e g e t s i s e m p t y a n d h o l l o w , o n e t h a t s u c k s

15u p t h e i n t e l l e c t u a l c u r i o s i t y a n d q u e s t f o r

16k n o w l e d g e . The initial enthusiasm and joy of

17l e a v i n g o f f t o c o l l e g e i s d r i e d u p i n t h e

18r e m a i n d e r o f t i m e s p e n t t r y i n g t o l e a v e a s q u i c k l y

19a s p o s s i b l e .

20 Now, if we really live in an enlightened

21s o c i e t y , i f w e r e a l l y r e g a r d o u r s e l v e s a s t h e b e s t

22n a t i o n i n t h e w o r l d , a s o c i e t y t h a t c h e r i s h e s t h e

23r i g h t s a n d f r e e d o m s o f i n d i v i d u a l s , t h e n t h e

24e d u c a t i o n o f o u r c i t i z e n s a n d o u r s t u d e n t s s h o u l d

113

114
115
116 24
117

1a l s o b e r o o t e d b y t h e s a m e s a c r e d v a l u e s . A

2c o l l e g e d e g r e e s h o u l d n o t h a v e t o b e d e p e n d e n t o n

3f i n a n c e s a n d s h o u l d n o t b e a b u r d e n . Education is

4a n e c e s s i t y , b u t i t n e e d s t o b e a f u n d a m e n t a l

5r i g h t . In order for one to obtain an education

6n o w t h e b u r d e n i s h u g e . It is this very burden

7t h a t t h e F e d e r a l g o v e r n m e n t s h o u l d b e s u p p o r t i n g .

8 Now, in the Spellings Commission Report,

9i t s t a t e s t h a t t h e m e d i a n d e b t l e v e l a m o n g

10s t u d e n t s w h o g r a d u a t e f r o m f o u r - y e a r c o l l e g e s a n d

11u n i v e r s i t i e s w a s $ 1 5 , 0 0 0 f o r p u b l i c u n i v e r s i t i e s

12a n d $ 1 9 , 4 0 0 f o r p r i v a t e i n s t i t u t i o n s . Now,

13i n s t e a d o f v a l u i n g a n d r e g a r d i n g t h o s e t h a t g o t o

14c o l l e g e , t h e y a r e p e n a l i z e d a n d p u n i s h e d b y d e b t .

15 But today, I urge that the Department of

16E d u c a t i o n c o n s i d e r w a y s i n w h i c h h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

17c a n b e c o m e m o r e a f f o r d a b l e a n d a c c e s s i b l e f o r a l l

18s t u d e n t s . And it can easily be done in a variety

19o f w a y s i n c l u d i n g i n c r e a s i n g g r a n t a i d a n d m a k i n g

20l o a n s m o r e m a n a g e a b l e b y l i m i t i n g a s t u d e n t ’ s

21r e p a y m e n t t o a r e a s o n a b l e p e r c e n t a g e o f t h e i r

22i n c o m e a n d r e c o g n i z i n g t h a t b o r r o w e r s w i t h

23c h i l d r e n h a v e l e s s i n c o m e a v a i l a b l e f o r s t u d e n t

24l o a n s . Protecting borrowers from high interest

118

119
120
121 25
122

1c h a r g e s w h e n t h e y f a c e e c o n o m i c h a r d s h i p s w i l l , i n

2e s s e n c e , a i d a l l s t u d e n t b o r r o w e r s i n t h e i r

3e f f o r t s t o s u c c e s s f u l l y e a r n a c o l l e g e d e g r e e .

4 In conclusion, let’s set the stage for

5h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n . We went from luxury, privilege,

6o p p o r t u n i t y , a n d t o d a y o f n e c e s s i t y . Today, let’s

7f i n i s h w h a t n e e d s t o b e d o n e a n d m a k e h i g h e r

8e d u c a t i o n a b a s i c r i g h t . Let the next few days be

9a l a n d m a r k a s t h e 1 9 6 0 s H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t g a v e

10h a r d w o r k i n g s t u d e n t s a n o p p o r t u n i t y , I a s k t h a t

11t o d a y o r i n t h e n e a r f u t u r e t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

12E d u c a t i o n m a k e a p r o g r e s s i v e a c t i o n a n d t r a n s f o r m

13t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o a f e w t o a f u n d a m e n t a l a n d

14b a s i c r i g h t f o r a l l .

15 Thank you once again for allowing me to

16s p e a k .

17 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

18 DAN MADZELAN: Bammeke Jenkins.

19 BAMMEKE JENKINS: My name is Bammeke

20J e n k i n s , a n d I a m a n a l u m n i o f t h e U p w a r d B o u n d

21P r o g r a m . For those that do not know Upward Bound,

22i t i s a p r o g r a m b e c a u s e o f t h e W a r o n P o v e r t y

23u n d e r P r e s i d e n t J o h n s o n i n 1 9 6 4 . It was started

24t o s e r v e f i r s t g e n e r a t i o n a n d l o w - i n c o m e , c o l l e g e -

123

124
125
126 26
127

1b o u n d s t u d e n t s . There were 130 students in the

2i n i t i a l y e a r .

3 I am a product of the Chicago public

4s c h o o l s y s t e m , a n d w h e n I w a s i n g r a m m a r s c h o o l ,

5i t w a s d e e m e d t h e w o r s t s c h o o l s y s t e m i n t h e

6n a t i o n . Because of Upward Bound, I have not only

7g r a d u a t e d f r o m h i g h s c h o o l , I h a v e a l s o g r a d u a t e d

8f r o m u n d e r g r a d , a n d I h a v e a m a s t e r ’ s d e g r e e , a n d

9r i g h t n o w I a m w o r k i n g o n a m a s t e r ’ s / P h . D . h e r e a t

10L o y o l a . So Upward Bound has truly been a benefit

11f o r m e .

12 Right after I graduated from undergrad, I

13w e n t b a c k a n d s t a r t e d t o w o r k f o r t h e p r o g r a m t h a t

14I g r a d u a t e d f r o m . So I felt that there was a need

15f o r m e t o g i v e b a c k t o t h o s e t h a t w e r e l i k e m e .

16I f y o u c u t U p w a r d B o u n d - t y p e p r o g r a m s , t h e n t h o s e

17s t u d e n t s t h a t w e r e l i k e m e w h o w e r e a p a r t o f t h i s

18p u b l i c s c h o o l s y s t e m t h a t r e a l l y w a s n o t h e l p i n g a

19l o t o f p e o p l e - - i f y o u c u t p r o g r a m s l i k e t h a t ,

20s t u d e n t s l i k e m e w o u l d n o t b e s t a n d i n g h e r e t o d a y

21a s t e a c h e r s r i g h t n o w . Right now, I teach at City

22C o l l e g e s o f C h i c a g o .

23 So I just want to say that Upward Bound

24h a s d o n e s o m u c h f o r s o m a n y a n d I a m a n a d v o c a t e

128

129
130
131 27
132

1o f i t . I advocate all of the TRIO programs to my

2s t u d e n t s . The TRIO programs actually are Upward

3B o u n d , E d u c a t i o n a l T a l e n t S e a r c h , E d u c a t i o n a l

4O p p o r t u n i t y C e n t e r s , U p w a r d B o u n d M a t h a n d

5S c i e n c e , R o n a l d E . M c N a i r P o s t - B a c c a l a u r e a t e

6P r o g r a m S t u d e n t S u p p o r t S e r v i c e s , a n d t h e y a l s o

7h a v e p r o f e s s i o n a l t r a i n i n g g r a n t s t h a t a r e a l s o

8u n d e r t h e T R I O u m b r e l l a .

9 The last thing that I really want to say

10a b o u t U p w a r d B o u n d i s t h a t i t w a s s t a r t e d t o

11h e l p - - t h e p u r p o s e o f t h e p r o g r a m w a s t o h e l p

12s t u d e n t s m a t r i c u l a t e i n t o c o l l e g e a n d b e c o m e

13s u c c e s s f u l a n d c o n t r i b u t i n g p e o p l e t o o u r n a t i o n

14a n d s o c i e t y . I have a lot of friends who have

15g r a d u a t e d f r o m U p w a r d B o u n d a n d t h e y a r e d o i n g

16j u s t t h a t . So I want you to consider keeping the

17T R I O p r o g r a m s w h e n y o u g o b a c k t o t h e B e l t w a y .

18 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

19 DAN MADZELAN: Nayshon Mosley.

20 NAYSHON MOSLEY: Good morning. Again, my

21n a m e i s N a y s h o n M o s l e y a n d I b r i n g y o u g r e e t i n g s

22o n b e h a l f o f C h i c a g o S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ’ s U p w a r d

23B o u n d p r o g r a m .

24 I, like Mr. Jenkins, am a product of the

133

134
135
136 28
137

1C h i c a g o p u b l i c s c h o o l s , a s w e l l a s t h e C h i c a g o

2S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ’ s U p w a r d B o u n d p r o g r a m . I was

3i n t r o d u c e d t o t h e p r o g r a m a s b e i n g a s t u d e n t i n

4o n e o f t h e i r t a r g e t s c h o o l s i n 1 9 9 2 . I

5p a r t i c i p a t e d a n d g r a d u a t e d t h r o u g h t h a t p r o g r a m i n

61 9 9 5 . As a result of that, I not only went on to

7g e t m y b a c h e l o r ’ s d e g r e e , b u t I a l s o g o t a

8m a s t e r ’ s d e g r e e , a n d I a m c u r r e n t l y w o r k i n g o n m y

9d o c t o r a t e d e g r e e .

10 Being from a low income, poverty-level

11s i t u a t i o n , f i r s t g e n e r a t i o n a l c o l l e g e s t u d e n t , I

12w o u l d h a v e n e v e r b e f o r e p r o b a b l y b e e n g i v e n t h e

13o p p o r t u n i t y t o a d v a n c e - - a n d n o t o n l y j u s t t h e

14o p p o r t u n i t y , b u t t h e e n c o u r a g e m e n t t h a t t h e s t a f f

15i n U p w a r d B o u n d h a v e p r o v i d e d m e w i t h . Not only

16d o w e j u s t g o t o c o l l e g e a n d g r a d u a t e c o l l e g e , b u t

17t h r o u g h o u r t i m e i n U p w a r d B o u n d w e w e r e g i v e n t h e

18o p p o r t u n i t y t o n o t o n l y g o t h r o u g h h i s t o r i c a l

19c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s , b u t w e a l s o t o o k

20c u l t u r a l t r i p s .

21 We did a lot of journeying into Canada

22t h r o u g h t h e U n d e r g r o u n d R a i l r o a d s i t u a t i o n s . We

23w e n t t o H i s t o r i c a l l y B l a c k C o l l e g e s a n d

24U n i v e r s i t i e s . We went to private and liberal

138

139
140
141 29
142

1c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s . We had the opportunity

2t o k i n d o f s e e w h a t a l l o p p o r t u n i t i e s w e r e

3a v a i l a b l e t o u s , n o t o n l y j u s t t o m o t i v a t e y o u t o

4g o t o c o l l e g e b u t t o g i v e y o u d i f f e r e n t o p t i o n s .

5W e w e r e m a n d a t e d t o a p p l y t o a m i n i m u m o f e i g h t

6c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s , t o n o t p u t a l l o f o u r

7e g g s i n o n e b a s k e t , t o g o a h e a d a n d , i f y o u d i d

8g e t r e j e c t e d b y o n e s c h o o l o r i f y o u d o n o t g e t

9a c c e p t e d b y o n e o r t w o s c h o o l s , y o u s t i l l h a v e

10f i v e o r s i x s c h o o l s .

11 A lot of students that, where I came from,

12t h a t w o u l d b e a d i s c o u r a g e m e n t t o t h e m , t o g e t a

13r e j e c t i o n l e t t e r f r o m o n e u n i v e r s i t y w o u l d b e

14e n o u g h t o s a y , “ O h , s e e . Now I can’t go to

15c o l l e g e . ” Well, those students that were in the

16p r o g r a m w i t h m e a n d t h o s e s t u d e n t s t h a t c o n t i n u e d

17t o b e s e r v i c e d b y t h e U p w a r d B o u n d p r o g r a m s , a s

18w e l l a s a l l T R I O p r o g r a m s , t h e y h a v e m o r e o f a n

19o p p o r t u n i t y a v a i l a b l e t o t h e m t o d a y .

20 One of the main focuses of the Upward

21B o u n d p r o g r a m i s , a g a i n , t o t a r g e t l o w - i n c o m e ,

22f i r s t g e n e r a t i o n a l c o l l e g e s t u d e n t s . As a result

23o f t h a t p r o g r a m , I s t a n d h e r e b e f o r e y o u t o d a y , a s

24w e l l a s M r . J e n k i n s , t o e n c o u r a g e y o u a l l t o

143

144
145
146 30
147

1c o n t i n u e t o p u s h f o r f u n d i n g f o r t h e U p w a r d B o u n d

2p r o g r a m s , t o n o t c u t f u n d i n g , t o n o t o v e r w h e l m

3t h e m w i t h t h e n u m b e r s t o w h e r e t h e y c a n n o t r e c e i v e

4q u a l i t y s e r v i c e s .

5 I stand here today so that my daughter and

6o t h e r c h i l d r e n w i l l n o t h a v e t o g o t h r o u g h t h e

7c y c l e o f n o t o n l y n o t b e i n g a f i r s t g e n e r a t i o n a l

8c o l l e g e s t u d e n t , b u t a l s o s i d i n g f o r e d u c a t i o n s o

9t h a t s h e c a n l i v e a b o v e t h e p o v e r t y l i n e . I

10b e l i e v e t h a t t h e U p w a r d B o u n d p r o g r a m i s a

11s u c c e s s f u l p r o g r a m . I believe that the graduation

12r a t e s , n o t o n l y f r o m h i g h s c h o o l b u t a l s o f r o m

13c o l l e g e , a r e h i g h e r t h a n t h e y w o u l d b e j u s t w i t h

14t h e b a s i c c i t y o f C h i c a g o e d u c a t i o n . I think a

15l o t o f s t u d e n t s t h r o u g h t h e U p w a r d B o u n d p r o g r a m

16d o n o t j u s t r e s o r t t o c i t y c o l l e g e s b e c a u s e i t i s

17c o n v e n i e n t . I think that they branch out and go

18t o o t h e r c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s a c r o s s t h e

19s t a t e a n d a c r o s s t h e c o u n t r y . Without the Upward

20B o u n d p r o g r a m , t h a t e n c o u r a g e m e n t w o u l d n o t b e

21t h e r e c o m i n g f r o m i m p o v e r i s h e d a r e a s .

22 So I just want to thank you for the

23o p p o r t u n i t y t o s h a r e w i t h y o u m y t e s t i m o n y , a n d

24a g a i n , e n c o u r a g e y o u , f i g h t f o r f u n d i n g f o r U p w a r d

148

149
150
151 31
152

1B o u n d . It is a great program.

2 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

3 DAN MADZELAN: Paul Murray.

4 PAUL MURRAY: Hello, my name is Paul

5M u r r a y . I am a student of University of Illinois

6a t C h i c a g o . I would like to start by saying thank

7y o u f o r h o l d i n g t h e s e h e a r i n g s .

8 In February, billions of dollars were cut

9f r o m h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n f u n d i n g . This may not have

10c a u s e d m a n y p r o b l e m s r i g h t t h e n a n d t h e r e , b u t i n

11t h e l o n g r u n I t h i n k t h i s w i l l p r o v e t o h a v e b e e n

12a h u g e m i s t a k e t h a t c o u l d c r i p p l e t h e A m e r i c a n w a y

13o f l i f e , a s w e l l a s t h e e c o n o m y .

14 There are five main points that are being

15p u s h e d b y s t u d e n t s a c r o s s t h e M i d w e s t . The five

16p o i n t s w i l l b e d i s c u s s e d i n t o t a l b y a t l e a s t o n e

17s t u d e n t t o d a y . I would like to touch on one of

18t h e s e p o i n t s . I will discuss the idea of linking

19r e p a y m e n t o f s t u d e n t l o a n s t o a p e r c e n t a g e o f

20i n c o m e a f t e r g r a d u a t i o n .

21 Lower government aid means that more of

22t h e c o s t i s p l a c e d o n s t u d e n t s . The consequences

23f o r s t u d e n t s , o f c o u r s e , a r e m o r e d e b t , l o w e r

24g r a d e s , a n d d i f f e r e n t j o b s e l e c t i o n s . Since more

153

154
155
156 32
157

1d e b t i s a s s u m e d , I a m j u s t g o i n g t o m o v e r i g h t o n

2t o l o w e r g r a d e s . When more of a burden is placed

3o n s t u d e n t s , s t u d e n t s n e e d t o f i n d a w a y t o

4s u p p o r t t h a t b u r d e n . A student may need to work a

5f u l l - t i m e j o b c o n c u r r e n t w i t h t h e i r f u l l - t i m e

6c l a s s s c h e d u l e . In this case, the emphasis for

7t h e s t u d e n t i s m o r e o n a m e a n s o f f u n d i n g c o l l e g e

8r a t h e r t h a n r e c e i v i n g h i g h m a r k s i n c l a s s e s .

9 Second, a student may choose a higher-

10p a y i n g j o b r a t h e r t h a n a l o w e r - p a y i n g j o b . Such a

11s t u d e n t m a y w a n t t o b e a t e a c h e r , a p o l i c e

12o f f i c e r , o r e v e n a c r i m i n a l d e f e n s e a t t o r n e y f o r

13t h e s t a t e , b u t t h i s s t u d e n t m a y n o t b e a b l e t o

14t a k e t h e s e c a r e e r s i n t o c o n s i d e r a t i o n .

15 Take me, for example, trying to get a

16d e g r e e i n p o l i t i c a l s c i e n c e a t U I C . I will

17g r a d u a t e a t l e a s t $ 3 0 , 0 0 0 i n d e b t . After

18g r a d u a t i o n , I h o p e t o m o v e o n t o l a w s c h o o l . I

19t h i n k w e a l l k n o w h o w e x p e n s i v e l a w s c h o o l i s .

20W h e n I g r a d u a t e f r o m l a w s c h o o l , w h i c h i s n o t e v e n

21a s u r e t h i n g , I k n o w t h a t I w i l l n o t b e a b l e t o

22a f f o r d t o w o r k f o r t h e s t a t e . I am so sure that I

23w i l l n o t b e a b l e t o a f f o r d i t t h a t t h e t h o u g h t ,

24“ M a y b e I w i l l w o r k a s a c r i m i n a l d e f e n s e l a w y e r

158

159
160
161 33
162

1f o r t h e s t a t e , ” w i l l n o t e v e n b e a t h o u g h t b y t h a t

2t i m e .

3 If I am thinking like this, there are

4c e r t a i n l y m a n y o t h e r s . Who will the state turn to

5f o r a t t o r n e y s w i t h i t s r i s i n g n u m b e r o f j a i l

6i n m a t e s ? Everyone I know rants about how greedy

7l a w y e r s a r e . What if that were true? What if, 30

8y e a r s d o w n t h e r o a d , i t w a s s t i l l t r u e ? Would the

9U n i t e d S t a t e s r e a l l y d e p e n d o n a l l o f t h e l a w y e r s

10i n t h e c o u n t r y t o g e n e r o u s l y d o n a t e t h e i r t i m e t o

11w o r k o n p r o b o n o c a s e s ? Then it would be like a

12c i t i z e n o b l i g a t i o n , k i n d o f l i k e j u r y d u t y , o n l y

13t h i s w o u l d b e s e c l u d e d t o g r e e d y l a w y e r s . We all

14k n o w h o w e v e r y c i t i z e n j u m p s a t t h e c h a n c e t o d o

15j u r y d u t y .

16 What I say about college debt being hard

17t o p a y b a c k , I t h i n k i t g o e s d o u b l e f o r a n y o n e o u t

18t h e r e t r y i n g t o g o t o s c h o o l t o b e a t e a c h e r ,

19p o l i c e o f f i c e r , o r a n y o t h e r g o v e r n m e n t p o s i t i o n .

20W h o k n o w s , f u n d i n g e d u c a t i o n m a y s a v e t h e

21g o v e r n m e n t t h e y w o u l d o t h e r w i s e h a v e t o p a y t o

22e m p l o y e e s i n o r d e r t o b a l a n c e t h e i r s t u d e n t l o a n

23d e b t . If I am not mistaken, raising wages on such

24a w i d e s c a l e a s i t i s i n g o v e r n m e n t m a y e v e n r a i s e

163

164
165
166 34
167

1i n f l a t i o n o r c o s t o f l i v i n g a t a h i g h e r r a t e t h a n

2t h e c u r r e n t , a s i t d i d w h e n t h e c u t s w e r e m a d e i n

3F e b r u a r y . However, I digress.

4 I would like to conclude by saying that

5c o l l e g e w o u l d b e a l o t e a s i e r o n s t u d e n t s , a n d

6p o s i t i o n s i n c e r t a i n j o b s w o u l d b e a l o t e a s i e r t o

7f i l l i f r e p a y m e n t o f f i n a n c i a l a i d w a s a

8p e r c e n t a g e o f t h e i n c o m e o f t h e s t u d e n t a f t e r

9g r a d u a t i o n . Society will benefit as a whole if

10h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n r e c e i v e s m o r e m o n e y b e c a u s e

11p u b l i c d e m a n d o n h i g h - p a y i n g j o b s w o u l d n o t b e a s

12h i g h . What if this were the way to trim a little

13f a t o f f t h e e v e r - w i d e n i n g g a p b e t w e e n r i c h a n d

14p o o r ?

15 Thank you for your time.

16 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

17 DAN MADZELAN: John Padgett.

18 JOHN PADGETT: Good morning and thank you.

19 Thank you for this opportunity to

20p a r t i c i p a t e i n t o d a y ’ s h e a r i n g s . My name is Dr.

21J o h n P a d g e t t , a n d I a m p l e a s e d t o s e r v e a s

22P r e s i d e n t o f t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l A c a d e m y o f D e s i g n

23a n d T e c h n o l o g y h e r e i n C h i c a g o .

24 The Academy is an accredited institution

168

169
170
171 35
172

1o f f e r i n g a s s o c i a t e a n d b a c h e l o r d e g r e e s t o o v e r

22 , 0 0 0 t a l e n t e d s t u d e n t s i n t h e f i e l d s o f d e s i g n

3a n d t e c h n o l o g y . Our primary programs of study

4i n c l u d e f a s h i o n d e s i g n , i n t e r i o r d e s i g n ,

5i n f o r m a t i o n t e c h n o l o g y , m e r c h a n d i s i n g m a n a g e m e n t ,

6a n d v i s u a l c o m m u n i c a t i o n s .

7 We commend the Commission and Secretary

8S p e l l i n g s f o r t h e s u g g e s t e d c o n c r e t e a n d b o l d

9s t a t e m e n t s t o t h e p r o b l e m s f a c i n g s t u d e n t s a n d

10p o s t s e c o n d a r y i n s t i t u t i o n s t o d a y . It is time that

11w e s h i n e a l i g h t o n t h e s y s t e m t h a t h a s f a i l e d

12m a n y s t u d e n t s . The obstacles to student success

13h i g h l i g h t e d i n r e p o r t s a r e o n e s w e d e a l w i t h e v e r y

14d a y . Our student population is unique, although

15n o t e n t i r e l y u n i q u e . Fifty-eight percent of our

16s t u d e n t s a r e o v e r t h e a g e o f 2 1 . Nearly 60

17p e r c e n t a r e m i n o r i t i e s . Many of the students are

18t h e f i r s t t o a t t e n d c o l l e g e . Like many other

19c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s a c r o s s t h e c o u n t r y , I A D T

20m u s t a d d r e s s t h e d e f i c i e n c i e s i n a n e d u c a t i o n a l

21s y s t e m t h a t g r a d u a t e s s t u d e n t s f r o m s e c o n d a r y

22s c h o o l s w i t h o u t b a s i c s k i l l s o r t h e c o m p e t e n c e

23r e q u i r e d t o b e s u c c e s s f u l i n p o s t s e c o n d a r y .

24 Of all incoming students on our campus, 65

173

174
175
176 36
177

1p e r c e n t h a v e l o w e r t h a n c o l l e g e s k i l l s a n d / o r

2E n g l i s h . Thirty-five percent of our incoming

3s t u d e n t s d o n o t h a v e s e c o n d a r y s c h o o l l e v e l

4r e a d i n g o r m a t h . To bridge this chasm between

5s t u d e n t s ’ s k i l l l e v e l s a n d c o l l e g e w o r k , I A D T

6o f f e r s a t w o - t i e r e d s y s t e m o f d e v e l o p m e n t a l

7c o u r s e s i n s u b j e c t s o f E n g l i s h a n d m a t h .

8 The first tier course focuses on helping

9s t u d e n t s a c h i e v e s e c o n d a r y s c h o o l l e v e l s i n m a t h

10a n d E n g l i s h . The second tier courses are designed

11t o b r i n g t h e s t u d e n t s ’ s k i l l s t o t h o s e o f c o l l e g e

12l e v e l s .

13 With improvements in our developmental

14c u r r i c u l u m a n d i n s t r u c t i o n a l d e s i g n , a s w e l l a s

15i m p r o v e m e n t s i n c l a s s r o o m d e l i v e r y , w e h a v e s e e n

16a n i n c r e a s e i n t h e p a s s r a t e o f o u r d e v e l o p m e n t a l

17s t u d e n t s . Currently, 65 percent pass versus 47

18p e r c e n t l a s t y e a r . Even more telling, we have

19s e e n a m a r k e d i m p r o v e m e n t i n a t t e n d a n c e r a t e s i n

20o u r d e v e l o p m e n t a l s t u d e n t s , 8 5 p e r c e n t a t t e n d a n c e

21f o r a l l c l a s s e s v e r s u s 5 5 p e r c e n t l a s t y e a r .

22 The retention of these high-risk students

23h a s s i g n i f i c a n t l y i n c r e a s e d s i n c e t h e p o l i c y h a s

24b e e n i n p l a c e , i m p r o v i n g 2 5 p e r c e n t f o r t h i s

178

179
180
181 37
182

1s p e c i f i c p o p u l a t i o n . In an effort for the success

2o f I A D T s t u d e n t s e n r o l l e d i n t h e s e t y p e s o f

3p r o g r a m s , C a r e e r E d u c a t i o n C o r p o r a t i o n h a s

4d e s i g n e d a d e v e l o p m e n t a l c u r r i c u l u m t o b e r o l l e d

5o u t a t m o r e t h a n 8 0 c a m p u s e s a c r o s s t h e c o u n t r y

6t h i s f a l l .

7 The preparatory education program is

8d e s i g n e d t o t a r g e t a l l i n c o m i n g s t u d e n t s , u n l e s s a

9s t u d e n t r e q u e s t s a t e s t - o u t o f t h e d e v e l o p m e n t a l

10c o u r s e w o r k . Every student, then, will

11p a r t i c i p a t e i n a c o r e c o n t e n t c o u r s e e a c h t e r m

12d e s i g n e d s p e c i f i c a l l y t o i m p r o v e s t u d e n t s k i l l

13l e v e l s w h i l e a l s o e n g a g i n g i n t h e p r o g r a m o f s t u d y

14o f t h e i r s u b j e c t .

15 CEC has committed time and resources to

16p r o g r a m s s u c h a s t h e s e t o h e l p s t u d e n t s s u c c e e d

17t h r o u g h o u t t h e i r e d u c a t i o n a l e x p e r i e n c e , e n h a n c e

18t h e i r c o n f i d e n c e , a n d t h e i r m a s t e r y o f b a s i c

19s k i l l s i n m a t h , r e a d i n g , a n d w r i t i n g . We support

20t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s o f t h e C o m m i s s i o n w i t h r e g a r d s

21t o b e t t e r a l i g n i n g s e c o n d a r y s c h o o l p r e p a r a t i o n

22f o r t h e a d v a n c e d c o l l e g e l e v e l w o r k .

23 First, encourage state efforts to align K-

241 2 g r a d u a t i o n s t a n d a r d s w i t h c o l l e g e a n d e m p l o y e r

183

184
185
186 38
187

1e x p e c t a t i o n s .

2 Second, provide incentives for higher

3e d u c a t i o n i n s t i t u t i o n s t o m a k e l o n g - t e r m

4c o m m i t m e n t s t o w o r k a c t i v e l y a n d c o l l a b o r a t i v e l y

5w i t h K - 1 2 s c h o o l s a n d s y s t e m s t o u n d e r - s e r v e d

6s t u d e n t s i m p r o v i n g c o l l e g e p r e p a r a t i o n .

7 Additionally, we also recommend that the

8D e p a r t m e n t p r o v i d e i n c e n t i v e s t o h i g h s c h o o l s a n d

9s c h o o l s y s t e m s t o d e v e l o p p o s t - g r a d u a t i o n b r i d g e

10c o u r s e w o r k g e a r e d t o w a r d s s t u d e n t s w h o a r e n o t

11p r e p a r e d t o e n t e r c o l l e g e , a n d y e t h a v e c o m p l e t e d

12t h e i r h i g h s c h o o l r e q u i r e m e n t s .

13 And finally, standardize state high school

14g r a d u a t i o n r e q u i r e m e n t s t o l e v e l t h e p l a y i n g f i e l d

15f o r s t u d e n t s g o i n g o n t o h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n .

16 Thank you very much for this opportunity

17t o s p e a k .

18 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

19 DAN MADZELAN: Earl Dowling.

20 EARL DOWLING: Good morning and thank you

21f o r t h i s o p p o r t u n i t y .

22 Please know that we, members of the

23p r o f e s s i o n a l f i n a n c i a l a i d c o m m u n i t y , a p p r e c i a t e

24y o u r k e e n i n t e r e s t a s e v i d e n c e d b y t h i s r e g i o n a l

188

189
190
191 39
192

1i n i t i a t i v e a n d b y h e r o i c a l l y d e v e l o p i n g a n d

2i m p l e m e n t i n g t w o n e w f e d e r a l g r a n t p r o g r a m s .

3 My name is Earl Dowling, and I am the

4D i r e c t o r o f S c h o l a r s h i p s a n d F i n a n c i a l A s s i s t a n c e

5a t H a r p e r C o l l e g e .

6 Harper College is a comprehensive public

7t w o - y e a r c o l l e g e , w i t h a n e n r o l l m e n t o f o v e r

82 4 , 0 0 0 , l o c a t e d i n P a l a t i n e , a n o r t h w e s t s u b u r b o f

9C h i c a g o . Harper College is dedicated to providing

10a n e x c e l l e n t e d u c a t i o n a t a n a f f o r d a b l e c o s t ,

11p r o m o t i n g p e r s o n a l g r o w t h , e n r i c h i n g t h e l o c a l

12c o m m u n i t y , a n d m e e t i n g t h e c h a l l e n g e s o f a g l o b a l

13s o c i e t y .

14 My professional financial aid experience

15s p a n s 2 5 y e a r s , m o s t l y i n t h e p u b l i c s e c t o r . I

16a p p e a r b e f o r e y o u t h i s m o r n i n g t o m a k e t h i s o n e

17s u g g e s t i o n f o r i n c l u s i o n i n n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g

18d i s c u s s i o n s . The Academic Competitive Grant

19p r o g r a m i s n o t a v a i l a b l e b y i n t e r i m F e d e r a l

20r e g u l a t i o n s t o s t u d e n t s e n r o l l e d i n c e r t i f i c a t e

21p r o g r a m s . The negotiated rulemaking committee

22m u s t r e c o n s i d e r t h i s o v e r s i g h t , a n d t h e r e f o r e I a m

23r e c o m m e n d i n g t h e d e f i n i t i o n o f a n e l i g i b l e p r o g r a m

24o f t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a m e n d m e n t s b e m o d i f i e d t o

193

194
195
196 40
197

1r e a d a s f o l l o w s , ” A n e l i g i b l e p r o g r a m i s a

2p r o g r a m , a s d e f i n e d i n 3 4 C F R 6 6 8 . 8 t h a t , f o r t h e

3A C G p r o g r a m l e a d s t o a c e r t i f i c a t e — “ t h a t i s t h e

4n e w l a n g u a g e — “ O r t o a n A s s o c i a t e ’ s o r B a c h e l o r ’ s

5D e g r e e i n a t w o - y e a r a c a d e m i c d e g r e e p r o g r a m . ”

6 For the current academic year, Harper

7C o l l e g e w i l l e n r o l l o v e r 9 5 0 f u l l - t i m e s t u d e n t s i n

8o u r c e r t i f i c a t e p r o g r a m s . Harper students will

9e a r n t h e i r c e r t i f i c a t e s i n s u c h h i g h - m a r k e t a r e a s

10a s c u l i n a r y a r t s , e a r l y c h i l d h o o d a d m i n i s t r a t o r ,

11e a r l y c h i l d h o o d t e a c h e r , f i n a n c i a l m a n a g e m e n t ,

12h o t e l m a n a g e m e n t , a n d l i c e n s e d p r a c t i c a l n u r s e , t o

13n a m e j u s t s i x p r o g r a m s . These programs are in

14s k i l l e d a n d v e r y m a r k e t a b l e a r e a s . They attract

15t h e s a m e q u a l i t y s t u d e n t a s e n r o l l e d i n t h e

16a s s o c i a t e ’ s d e g r e e p r o g r a m .

17 In fact, and this is critical to my

18a r g u m e n t , a s t u d e n t e a r n i n g a c e r t i f i c a t e , i n ,

19s a y , f o r e n s i c s c i e n c e , w i l l s i t a l o n g s i d e a n

20i n d i v i d u a l w o r k i n g o n t h e i r a s s o c i a t e ’ s d e g r e e i n

21f o r e n s i c s c i e n c e . Same faculty member, same

22l e s s o n p l a n , a n d s o m e r i g o r o u s h i g h s c h o o l

23b a c k g r o u n d , b u t o n e i s r e w a r d e d w i t h a n A C G . One

24c h o s e t h e a s s o c i a t e s d e g r e e f o r t h e i r

198

199
200
201 41
202

1p o s t s e c o n d a r y s t u d i e s , w h e r e a s t h e o t h e r c h o s e a

2c e r t i f i c a t e . We have created an inequity issue,

3b u t e a s i l y c o r r e c t e d d u r i n g n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g .

4 This concludes my remarks. Thank you for

5t h e t i m e .

6 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

7 DAN MADZELAN: Alisa Abadinsky.

8 ALISA ABADINSKY: Good morning. I want to

9t h a n k y o u f o r t h i s o p p o r t u n i t y t o t e s t i f y , a n d

10a l s o f o r h a v i n g i t , r e a l l y , i n m y b a c k y a r d t h i s

11m o r n i n g .

12 My name is Alisa Abadinsky. I am the

13P r e s i d e n t o f t h e C o a l i t i o n o f H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n

14A s s i s t a n c e O r g a n i z a t i o n , a l s o k n o w n a s C O H E A O . It

15i s a m e m b e r s h i p o r g a n i z a t i o n t h a t i s a p a r t n e r s h i p

16o f o v e r 3 0 0 e d u c a t i o n a l i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d

17c o m m e r c i a l o r g a n i z a t i o n s f r o m t h r o u g h o u t t h e

18c o u n t r y . I work as the Director of University

19S t u d e n t F i n a n c i a l S e r v i c e s a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

20I l l i n o i s s y s t e m . I am very proud to have heard

21s t u d e n t t e s t i m o n y f r o m t h e r e t h i s m o r n i n g ,

22a l t h o u g h , t o d a y , I a m t e s t i f y i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e

23B o a r d o f D i r e c t o r s a n d m e m b e r s o f C O H E A O .

24 COHEAO members support student financial

203

204
205
206 42
207

1a s s i s t a n c e a n d t h e y a r e d e d i c a t e d , e s p e c i a l l y t o

2t h e p r e s e r v a t i o n a n d i m p r o v e m e n t o f t h e P e r k i n s

3L o a n P r o g r a m . The Federal Perkins Loan program

4b e g a n i n 1 9 5 8 a f t e r t h e S p u t n i k l a u n c h b y t h e

5S o v i e t U n i o n a s t h e N a t i o n a l D e f e n s e L o a n P r o g r a m .

6I t w a s r e n a m e d t h e D i r e c t S t u d e n t L o a n P r o g r a m ,

7t h e n r e n a m e d a g a i n a s t h e P e r k i n s L o a n P r o g r a m

8a f t e r R e p r e s e n t a t i v e C a r l P e r k i n s o f K e n t u c k y , t h e

9f o r m e r C h a i r m a n o f t h e H o u s e E d u c a t i o n a n d L a b o r

10C o m m i t t e e . It is the oldest federally supported

11s t u d e n t l o a n p r o g r a m , a p r o g r a m t h a t h a s h e l p e d

12m a n y o f o u r n a t i o n s l e a d e r s p a y f o r c o l l e g e .

13 The Perkins Loan Program remains one of

14t h e m o s t c o s t - e f f e c t i v e w a y s o f p r o v i d i n g s t u d e n t

15f i n a n c i a l a s s i s t a n c e . It is one of the best-

16t a r g e t e d p r o g r a m s f o r a c c o m p l i s h i n g t h e m i s s i o n o f

17i m p r o v i n g a c c e s s t o h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n . It

18r e p r e s e n t s a h i g h l y e f f i c i e n t u s e o f F e d e r a l f u n d s

19s i n c e i t t a r g e t s t h e l o w e s t - i n c o m e s t u d e n t s a n d

20i n c l u d e s a n i n s t i t u t i o n a l m a t c h o f 2 5 p e r c e n t o f

21F e d e r a l C a p i t a l C o n t r i b u t i o n s . That makes it

22u n i q u e a m o n g f e d e r a l l y s u p p o r t e d l o a n p r o g r a m s .

23 Since the Perkins Loan Program began in

241 9 5 8 , m o r e t h a n $ 2 1 b i l l i o n i n l o a n s h a v e b e e n

208

209
210
211 43
212

1m a d e t o s t u d e n t s t h a n k s t o t h e r e v o l v i n g f u n d

2c o n c e p t a n d t h e i n s t i t u t i o n a l m a t c h , o n l y o n e -

3t h i r d o f t h e s e f u n d s c a m e f r o m t h e f e d e r a l c a p i t a l

4c o n t r i b u t i o n s .

5 COHEAO has several issues that it believes

6s h o u l d b e i n c l u d e d i n t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g

7s c h e d u l e t o c o m m e n c e t h i s y e a r . In general, we

8b e l i e v e t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g o f f e r s a n

9e x c e l l e n t o p p o r t u n i t y t o e x p a n d a n d i m p r o v e t h e

10a d m i n i s t r a t i o n o f t h e P e r k i n s L o a n P r o g r a m b y

11c a m p u s e s a n d t h e D e p a r t m e n t .

12 First, we believe that the current

13p r a c t i c e b y t h e D e p a r t m e n t t o h o l d a l l f u n d s

14r e c o v e r e d f r o m d e f a u l t e d l o a n s t h a t h a v e b e e n

15a s s i g n e d f o r c o l l e c t i o n t o t h e d e b t c o l l e c t i o n

16s e r v i c e s h o u l d b e m o d i f i e d . Under current

17p r a c t i c e , a n i n s t i t u t i o n t h a t b e l i e v e s t h a t i t

18w i l l n o t b e a b l e t o c o l l e c t a d e f a u l t e d P e r k i n s

19l o a n h a s t h e o p t i o n o f a s s i g n i n g t h e l o a n t o t h e

20D e p a r t m e n t , w h i c h c a n t h e n a t t e m p t t o c o l l e c t t h e

21l o a n i t s e l f . Sometimes the Department’s efforts

22r e s u l t i n a s u c c e s s f u l c o l l e c t i o n . However, the

23g o v e r n m e n t d o e s n o t r e t u r n t h e c o l l e c t e d f u n d s t o

24t h e P e r k i n s L o a n r e v o l v i n g f u n d , n o r t o t h e

213

214
215
216 44
217

1o r i g i n a l c a m p u s w h e r e t h e m o n e y c o u l d b e r e l e n t e d

2t o h e l p f u t u r e s t u d e n t s . This not only continues

3t o p e n a l i z e f u t u r e s t u d e n t s f o r t h e i r

4p r e d e c e s s o r ’ s f a i l u r e , i t a l s o d i s c o u r a g e s s c h o o l s

5f r o m a s s i g n i n g l o a n s t o t h e D e p a r t m e n t i n t h e

6f i r s t p l a c e , s i n c e t h e a s s i g n m e n t m e a n s a t o t a l

7l o s s o f t h a t l o a n f o r t h e i n s t i t u t i o n ’ s P e r k i n s

8L o a n f u n d .

9 Current law gives the Department the

10o p t i o n o f w h e t h e r o r n o t t o r e t u r n a s h a r e o f

11c o l l e c t i o n s t o t h e i n s t i t u t i o n . We propose the

12c o l l e c t i o n s o f a s s i g n e d l o a n s b e r e t u r n e d t o t h e

13r e v o l v i n g f u n d o f t h e c a m p u s t h a t a s s i g n e d t h e

14l o a n a f t e r d e d u c t i n g t h e D e p a r t m e n t ’ s c o l l e c t i o n

15c o s t s .

16 Other issues that COHEAO believes should

17b e p a r t o f t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g a g e n d a

18i n c l u d e t h e f o l l o w i n g c h a n g e s t h a t w o u l d i m p r o v e

19t h e o p e r a t i o n o f t h e P e r k i n s L o a n P r o g r a m , a n d I

20w i l l o f f e r a s u m m a r y , a n d w e h a v e a d d i t i o n a l i t e m s

21i n o u r s u b m i t t e d t e s t i m o n y . Although the VISTA

22c a n c e l l a t i o n b e n e f i t s t i l l e x i s t s , c o n f u s i o n h a s

23a r i s e n d u e t o t h e m a n a g i n g o f t h e p r o g r a m , w i t h

24t h e A m e r i C o r p s p r o g r a m u n d e r t h e C o r p o r a t i o n f o r

218

219
220
221 45
222

1N a t i o n a l S e r v i c e . The regulations need to reflect

2t h e b e n e f i t s c l e a r l y u n d e r t h e n e w p r o g r a m n a m e .

3 Second, prior to consolidating a Federal

4P e r k i n s L o a n , c o n s o l i d a t i o n l e n d e r s s h o u l d b e

5r e q u i r e d t o p r o v i d e e a s y t o u n d e r s t a n d a n d

6c o n s p i c u o u s d i s c l o s u r e s t o P e r k i n s L o a n b o r r o w e r s

7a b o u t t h e l o s s o f b e n e f i t s t h a t w o u l d r e s u l t i f a

8P e r k i n s L o a n w e r e c o n s o l i d a t e d , i n c l u d i n g t h e f a c t

9t h a t t h e r e i s n o i n t e r e s t r a t e b e n e f i t f r o m

10c o n s o l i d a t i n g P e r k i n s . Borrowers currently are

11c o n s o l i d a t i n g t h e i r l o a n s w i t h o u t b e i n g f u l l y

12i n f o r m e d a b o u t l o s t b e n e f i t s .

13 Third, allow deserving borrowers who have

14s e r v e d t h e i r c o u n t r y a n d t h e m i l i t a r y c o n t i n g e n c y

15o p e r a t i o n t o r e c e i v e t h e n e w m i l i t a r y d e f e r m e n t o n

16a l l o f t h e i r o u t s t a n d i n g F e d e r a l P e r k i n s L o a n s i f

17a t l e a s t o n e l o a n m e e t s t h e c r i t e r i o n o f h a v i n g

18t h e f i r s t d i s b u r s e m e n t m a d e o n o r a f t e r J u l y 1 ,

192 0 0 1 . In the Federal Perkins Loan Program, no

20f e d e r a l i n t e r e s t s u b s i d y c o s t i s i n v o l v e d .

21T h e r e f o r e , t h e r e i s n o c o s t r a t i o n a l e f o r

22r e s t r i c t i n g t h e l o a n s e l i g i b l e f o r t h i s m i l i t a r y

23d e f e r m e n t t o o n l y t h o s e f o r w h i c h t h e f i r s t

24d i s b u r s e m e n t w a s o n o r a f t e r J u l y 1 , 2 0 0 1 . The

223

224
225
226 46
227

1s t a t u t e d o e s n o t p r e c l u d e t h i s i n t e r p r e t a t i o n a n d

2i t i s m u c h c l e a r l y a n d , w e b e l i e v e , m u c h f a i r e r t o

3b o r r o w e r s a n d a m o r e l o g i c a l a p p r o a c h .

4 And finally, address conflicts in the

5A u g u s t 2 0 0 6 i n t e r i m f i n a l r e g u l a t i o n s o n l o a n

6r e h a b i l i t a t i o n .

7 I want to thank you for this opportunity

8t o t e s t i f y a b o u t t h e u p c o m i n g n e g o t i a t e d

9r u l e m a k i n g . COHEAO looks forward to participating

10i n t h i s r o u n d , a n d w e w i l l b e s u b m i t t i n g t h e n a m e

11o f a n e g o t i a t o r a t t h e a p p r o p r i a t e t i m e . Thank

12y o u .

13 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

14 DAN MADZELAN: Mauri Ditzler.

15 MAURI DITZLER: Good morning. I am Mauri

16D i t z l e r . I am President of Monmouth College.

17 Monmouth is a private, residential,

18l i b e r a l a r t s c o l l e g e i n M o n m o u t h , I l l i n o i s . We

19a r e a m e m b e r o f t h e A s s o c i a t e d C o l l e g e s o f t h e

20M i d w e s t , t h e C o u n c i l o f I n d e p e n d e n t C o l l e g e s , a n

21i n d e p e n d e n t c o l l e g e s ’ o r g a n i z a t i o n , t h e

22A s s o c i a t i o n o f P r e s b y t e r i a n C o l l e g e s , a n d a n u m b e r

23o f o t h e r i n s t i t u t i o n s .

24 I speak for myself today, but I expect

228

229
230
231 47
232

1t h a t m y e n t h u s i a s m f o r w h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

2E d u c a t i o n m a y d o i n r e s p o n s e t o t h e S p e l l i n g s

3R e p o r t a n d m y c o n c e r n f o r w h a t t h e y m a y d o a r e

4s h a r e d b y m y l i b e r a l a r t s c o l l e g e .

5 Those of us who work daily in higher

6e d u c a t i o n k n o w t h a t t h e r e i s a l o t o f w o r k t h a t

7n e e d s t o b e d o n e . So we welcome the Federal

8g o v e r n m e n t a s y o u j o i n u s i n t h a t t a s k . As a

9m a t t e r o f a f a c t , I a m p a r t i c u l a r l y e n t h u s i a s t i c

10t h a t t h e F e d e r a l g o v e r n m e n t i s i n t e r e s t e d b e c a u s e ,

11i n m y c a r e e r , I n o t e d t h a t w h e n y o u p r o m p t u s ,

12t h o s e o f u s i n e d u c a t i o n , e v e n t h o s e o f u s i n

13p r i v a t e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n , w e u s u a l l y r e s p o n d , a n d

14w e r e s p o n d q u i t e e n t h u s i a s t i c a l l y .

15 That is also why I am a bit concerned,

16b e c a u s e s o m e t i m e s y o u p r o m p t u s a n d w e r e s p o n d ,

17a n d t h e n , i n o u r e n t h u s i a s m o f r e s p o n s e , t h e r e a r e

18s o m e t i m e s s o m e u n i n t e n d e d c o n s e q u e n c e s . When we

19l o o k a t w h a t t h e S p e l l i n g s C o m m i s s i o n a s k s y o u t o

20d o , w e a r e e n t h u s i a s t i c a b o u t t h o s e t h i n g s . I

21t h i n k a l l o f u s s h o u l d b e . Access, affordability,

22a c c o u n t a b i l i t y - - w h o c o u l d b e a g a i n s t t h o s e t h i n g s ?

23A n d w e a r e f o r t h e m , a s w e l l . But we know that,

24i n o u r e n t h u s i a s m t o l e g i s l a t e f o r t h o s e i t e m s ,

233

234
235
236 48
237

1s o m e t i m e s w e c a n c a u s e a c t i o n s t h a t h a v e

2u n i n t e n d e d c o n s e q u e n c e s . I think that is my

3c o n c e r n .

4 At Monmouth, we regularly ask ourselves,

5“ W h a t w e r e c o l l e g e s m e a n t t o b e ? What, really,

6s h o u l d b e a b o u t ? ” And we have concluded, looking

7b a c k a t o u r h e r i t a g e , a n d t h e h e r i t a g e o f s o m a n y

8c o l l e g e s l i k e o u r s , t h a t w e a r e r e a l l y a b o u t t h e

9p u b l i c g o o d . As I read the Spellings Report, I am

10c o n v i n c e d t h a t t h o s e p e o p l e w e r e t h i n k i n g a b o u t

11t h e p u b l i c g o o d .

12 But then I worry that, in their attempt to

13b e v e r y c o n c r e t e , t h e y g o t a w a y f r o m t h e i d e a l i s m .

14T h e y t a l k e d a b o u t c o n c r e t e t h i n g s l i k e a c c e s s a n d

15a f f o r d a b i l i t y . Those items can support the public

16g o o d , b u t o n e c a n a l s o i m a g i n e h o w e n t h u s i a s m

17t o w a r d s t h o s e c o u l d a c t u a l l y t u r n u s a g a i n s t t h e

18p u b l i c g o o d .

19 What I am going to do is give you two

20q u i c k e x a m p l e s , a n d t h e n s u g g e s t t h a t y o u b e v e r y

21c a r e f u l a s y o u l e g i s l a t e i n t h e s e a r e a s . One has

22t o d o w i t h a f f o r d a b i l i t y . Affordability is a good

23t h i n g . The Commission talks about the importance

24o f e a s e o f t r a n s f e r . That should make things more

238

239
240
241 49
242

1a f f o r d a b l e , a n d I c a n i m a g i n e w h a t t h e y h a d i n

2m i n d . A young person could look around and find

3t h e c o l l e g e t h a t h a d t h e l e a s t e x p e n s i v e E n g l i s h

4c o m p o s i t i o n c o u r s e a n d e n r o l l i n t h a t c o l l e g e f o r

5a t i m e . Then they could find someplace that had

6i n e x p e n s i v e c a l c u l u s c o u r s e s a n d t a k e t h o s e

7c o u r s e s f o r a t i m e . And when it was time to put

8t h e m a j o r t o g e t h e r , t h e y c o u l d f i n d , m a y b e , a m o r e

9e x p e n s i v e i n s t i t u t i o n t h a t w o u l d g i v e t h e m t h e

10c o u r s e s i n t h e i r m a j o r . The net effect would be

11l e s s c o s t o v e r a l l , s o i t w o u l d s e e m m o r e

12a f f o r d a b l e .

13 But some of us think that we miss a piece

14w h e n w e d o t h a t . We think that when you transfer

15t h e r e i s a p r o b l e m . We think that a very

16i m p o r t a n t p a r t o f e d u c a t i o n h a s t o d o w i t h

17i n t e g r a t i o n a n d b u i l d i n g a c o m m u n i t y a n d l e a r n i n g

18f r o m e a c h o t h e r . We think it is important for

19y o u n g p e o p l e t o w o r k w i t h t h e s a m e c o l l e a g u e s , t h e

20s a m e s t u d e n t s , o v e r f o u r y e a r s . They see what

21h a p p e n s i f t h e y a r e u n c i v i l a s a f r e s h m a n t o s o m e

22c l a s s m a t e s . They see what happens if they get

23a l o n g w i t h t h e i r p r o f e s s o r s , i f t h e y b u i l d

24b r i d g e s . They see what it is like to be led as a

243

244
245
246 50
247

1f r e s h m a n b y u p p e r - c l a s s s t u d e n t s a n d t h e n

2g r a d u a l l y t a k e t h a t r e s p o n s i b i l i t y a s t h e y m o v e

3o n .

4 So we think that it is very important that

5y o u l i v e i n a c o m m u n i t y , l e a r n h o w t o f u n c t i o n i n

6a c o m m u n i t y , o r l e a r n t h e c o n s e q u e n c e s o f n o t

7f u n c t i o n i n g w e l l i n t h a t c o m m u n i t y . We think it

8i s v e r y i m p o r t a n t t h a t , w h e n y o u a r e a s e n i o r , y o u

9c a n t h i n k b a c k t o y o u r f i r s t y e a r a n d r e m e m b e r

10t a k i n g c o u r s e s w i t h t h o s e s a m e s t u d e n t s . So you

11a l l h a d r e a d s o m e o f t h e s a m e t e x t s , h a d s o m e o f

12t h e s a m e p r o f e s s o r s , w e n t t h r o u g h t h e s a m e c r i s e s

13o n c a m p u s , f i g u r e d o u t h o w t h o s e w e r e w o r k e d o u t ,

14s o t h a t w h e n y o u t a l k t o e a c h o t h e r a n d y o u l e a r n

15f r o m e a c h o t h e r , y o u l e a r n a s a c o m m u n i t y s h o u l d .

16 We think that if you focus too much on

17t r a n s f e r , a s I t h i n k t h e C o m m i s s i o n ’ s r e p o r t d o e s ,

18y o u r u n t h e r i s k o f l o s i n g p a r t o f w h a t w e t h i n k

19i s a v e r y i m p o r t a n t a s p e c t o f t h e A m e r i c a n h i g h e r

20e d u c a t i o n s y s t e m . We are building from a

21c o m m u n i t y a n d l e a r n i n g a s p a r t o f t h a t c o m m u n i t y .

22 Another example of where I can imagine one

23m i g h t t a k e a r e c o m m e n d a t i o n o f t h e C o m m i s s i o n a n d

24t h e n g o i n t h e w r o n g d i r e c t i o n h a s t o d o w i t h

248

249
250
251 51
252

1a c c o u n t a b i l i t y . Accountability is a good thing.

2W e s h o u l d a l l b e f o r i t , b u t , a g a i n , i t c a n h a v e

3s o m e u n i n t e n d e d c o n s e q u e n c e s . If we asked

4c o l l e g e s t o b e a c c o u n t a b l e , o n e o f t h e t h i n g s w e

5w o u l d a s k t h e m t o b e a c c o u n t a b l e f o r i s t h e i r

6g r a d u a t i o n r a t e . We should all do better for the

7g r a d u a t i o n r a t e . If a young person enters our

8c o l l e g e , w e s h o u l d m a k e s u r e t h a t t h e y g r a d u a t e .

9I f w e a r e n o t d o i n g a g o o d j o b o f t h a t , w e h a v e t o

10l e t p e o p l e k n o w . So we ought to publish, in some

11f a s h i o n , o u r g r a d u a t i o n r a t e s . I can imagine a

12r e s p o n s e t o t h e S p e l l i n g s C o m m i s s i o n t o s a y ,

13“ L e t ’ s m a k e t h a t r e a d i l y a v a i l a b l e . ” But if we

14m a k e t h a t t o o r e a d i l y a v a i l a b l e , w e w i l l m i s l e a d

15y o u n g p e o p l e . Well, actually, more

16p r o b l e m a t i c a l l y , w e w i l l c a u s e c o l l e g e s t o r e s p o n d

17i n i n a p p r o p r i a t e w a y s . If it is important to me

18t h a t m y c o l l e g e h a s a h i g h g r a d u a t i o n r a t e , i f i t

19i s p u b l i s h e d a n d w e a r e a c c o u n t a b l e f o r t h a t , I

20c a n d o o n e o f t w o t h i n g s . I can work very hard to

21m a k e s u r e m y s t u d e n t s a r e l i k e l y t o g r a d u a t e , a n d

22I h o p e I w o u l d d o t h a t . But another thing that is

23l i k e l y t o h a p p e n i s w e a r e l i k e l y t o l o o k a t t h e

24p o p u l a t i o n o f a p p l i c a n t s a n d s a y , “ W h i c h o f t h o s e

253

254
255
256 52
257

1a p p l i c a n t s a r e m o r e l i k e l y t o g r a d u a t e ? ”

2 So we might give a preferential financial

3a i d p a c k a g e t o s t u d e n t s w h o s e g e n d e r , r a c e , a n d

4e c o n o m i c b a c k g r o u n d s u g g e s t t h e y a r e m u c h m o r e

5l i k e l y t o g r a d u a t e . I fear that would happen.

6W h i l e , i n o u r e n t h u s i a s m t o l o o k b e t t e r i n t h e

7a c c o u n t a b i l i t y s t a n d a r d s , w e w o u l d t a k e a c t i o n s

8t h a t w e r e i n a p p r o p r i a t e .

9 I do hope that you will hold us more

10a c c o u n t a b l e , b u t I a s k w h e n y o u d o t h i s

11l e g i s l a t i o n y o u t a k e a g r e a t d e a l o f c a r e , t h a t

12y o u d o n o t s i m p l y p u b l i s h s t a t i s t i c s , b u t y o u

13t h i n k o f w a y s t o c o r r e c t t h o s e a n d f i n e t u n e s o

14t h a t , i n f a c t , i n s t i t u t i o n s a r e n o t p u n i s h e d f o r

15t a k i n g r i s k s w o r k i n g w i t h s t u d e n t s w h o h a v e a l o n g

16w a y t o g o , b e c a u s e w e t h i n k t h a t i s i n t h e p u b l i c

17i n t e r e s t .

18 I come today simply to say to you that we,

19i n p r i v a t e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n , w a n t t o b e a p a r t n e r

20w i t h t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n . We want to

21e n d o r s e t h e S p e l l i n g s C o m m i s s i o n ’ s r e p o r t , b u t w e

22a s k t h a t y o u b e r e m a r k a b l y c a r e f u l a s y o u g o d o w n

23t h a t p a t h . We know that, when we work together

24w e l l a n d w h e n w e a r e o n t h e s a m e p a g e , w e c a n d o a

258

259
260
261 53
262

1l o t o f g o o d t h i n g s t o g e t h e r . But we also know

2f r o m p a s t e x p e r i e n c e t h a t s o m e t i m e s t h e r e s p o n s e s

3o f t h e d i v e r s e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n c o m m u n i t y a r e n o t

4w h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n e x p e c t s t h e m t o

5b e a n d w e s u f f e r f r o m u n i n t e n d e d c o n s e q u e n c e s .

6 Thanks for the opportunity to talk.

7 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you very much.

8 DAN MADZELAN: Paula Peinovich.

9 PAULA PEINOVICH: As a 1966 graduate of

10S t . O l a f C o l l e g e f r o m t h e M i d w e s t C o n f e r e n c e a n d a

11c o l l e a g u e f r o m M o n m o u t h , I t h i n k t h a t t h e s e

12c o m m e n t s w i l l a l s o i n d i c a t e t o t h e D e p a r t m e n t t h e

13t r e m e n d o u s l y c o m p l i c a t e d t a s k w e a r e u n d e r t a k i n g

14h e r e .

15 My name is Paula Peinovich, and I am

16P r e s i d e n t o f W a l d e n U n i v e r s i t y . Walden is an

17e n t i r e l y o n l i n e u n i v e r s i t y o w n e d b y L a u r e a t e

18E d u c a t i o n . We offer graduate degrees at the

19m a s t e r ’ s a n d d o c t o r a l l e v e l s i n e d u c a t i o n ,

20p s y c h o l o g y , m a n a g e m e n t , p u b l i c p o l i c y , a n d

21a d m i n i s t r a t i o n , a n d h e a l t h a n d h u m a n s e r v i c e s , a s

22w e l l a s m a s t e r ’ s p r o g r a m s i n e n g i n e e r i n g a n d I N T ,

23a n d u n d e r g r a d u a t e p r o g r a m s i n b u s i n e s s .

24 We serve the independent adult learner.

263

264
265
266 54
267

1T h e a v e r a g e a g e o f o u r s t u d e n t p o p u l a t i o n i s 3 5 .

2W a l d e n i s a c c r e d i t e d b y t h e H i g h e r L e a r n i n g

3C o m m i s s i o n o f t h e C e n t r a l A s s o c i a t i o n .

4 I appreciate the opportunity to share my

5t h o u g h t s w i t h y o u t o d a y o n a n u m b e r o f i s s u e s t h a t

6W a l d e n b e l i e v e s t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n s h o u l d

7c o n s i d e r d u r i n g t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g p r o c e s s .

8W e s u p p o r t t h e w o r k o f t h e C o m m i s s i o n o n t h e

9f u t u r e o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n .

10 As an overarching issue for consideration,

11m y c o m m e n t s a r e f o c u s e d o n t h e n e e d t o b e t t e r

12i n c o r p o r a t e t h e i n t e r e s t s o f t h e n o n - t r a d i t i o n a l

13l e a r n e r i n t o F e d e r a l h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n p o l i c y . As

14P e t e r S o a k e s s o d e f t l y d e m o n s t r a t e d i n h i s i s s u e d

15p a p e r t o t h e C o m m i s s i o n , t h e t r a d i t i o n a l f u l l - t i m e

16s t u d e n t 1 8 - 2 2 y e a r s o f a g e r e s i d i n g o n a c a m p u s

17r e p r e s e n t s o n l y 1 6 p e r c e n t o f t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

18p o p u l a t i o n . Thus, as I speak today on the

19s p e c i f i c c o n c e p t s o f o u t c o m e s m e a s u r e s a n d

20t r a n s p a r e n c y , i n n o v a t i o n i n t e a c h i n g , a n d c h a n g e s

21t o T i t l e I V f u n d i n g , I d o s o w i t h a b r o a d e r

22r e c o m m e n d a t i o n t h a t c h a n g e s i n t h e s e p o l i c i e s m u s t

23t a k e i n t o c o n s i d e r a t i o n t h e n e e d s o f t h e n o n -

24t r a d i t i o n a l a d u l t l e a r n e r .

268

269
270
271 55
272

1 We applaud the Commission’s consideration

2a n d d i a l o g u e r e g a r d i n g h o w t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

3c o m m u n i t y m i g h t b e t t e r m e a s u r e s t u d e n t a c h i e v e m e n t

4a n d h o w t o u s e t h o s e m e a s u r e s i n a m a n n e r t h a t

5b e s t i n f o r m s s t u d e n t s ’ p r o s p e c t i v e p o l i c y m a k e r s

6a b o u t t h e q u a l i t y o f o u r i n s t i t u t i o n . The issues

7a r e d i f f i c u l t . I think you have just seen that

8f r o m l o o k i n g a t W a l d e n a n d M o n m o u t h C o l l e g e .

9 It is essential to ensure that we do not

10e n d u p w i t h a m e c h a n i s m t h a t p i g e o n h o l e s

11i n s t i t u t i o n s a s o n e - s i z e - f i t s - a l l . Rather, we

12m u s t e m b r a c e a n d e n c o u r a g e t h e d i v e r s i t y i n t h e

13i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d i n t h e e d u c a t i o n s t h a t t h e y

14o f f e r .

15 At Walden, we have a specific process for

16m e a s u r i n g s t u d e n t a c h i e v e m e n t t h a t i n c o r p o r a t e s

17c o n t i n u e d i m p r o v e m e n t a s a p r i m a r y g o a l . Each

18a c a d e m i c p r o g r a m a t W a l d e n h a s a s e t o f s t u d e n t

19l e a r n i n g o u t c o m e s s p e c i f i c t o t h a t p r o g r a m a n d w e

20c o n d u c t a u d i t s t o i m p r o v e t h e i r c l a r i t y a n d s c o p e

21r e g u l a r l y . We work to ensure that the measures

22u s e d a r e a p p r o p r i a t e a n d a t t h e c o r r e c t l e v e l o f

23s p e c i f i c i t y f o r t h e l e a r n i n g o u t c o m e i n q u e s t i o n .

24 Learning and outcome assessment at Walden

273

274
275
276 56
277

1d r a w s u p o n m u l t i p l e m e a s u r e s , i n c l u d i n g t h i n g s

2t h a t a r e e a s i l y r e p o r t e d , s t u d e n t G P A , r e t e n t i o n

3r a t e , g r a d u a t i o n r a t e , s t u d e n t c o u r s e e v a l u a t i o n s ,

4r a t i n g s o n r e s e a r c h p a p e r s a n d d i s s e r t a t i o n

5e v a l u a t i o n r e c o r d s , s t u d e n t a s s e s s m e n t , f i n a l

6c o u r s e g r a d e s , a n n u a l s u r v e y s o f s t u d e n t s a n d

7a l u m n i , a n d a w i d e r a n g e o f t h e s e k i n d s o f

8m e a s u r e s . Some are not as easily reported

9p u b l i c l y a n d i n a c o m p a r a b l e r a t e .

10 We also use third-party studies of the

11i m p a c t o f o u r g r a d u a t e s o n t h e i r o w n c o m m u n i t i e s

12a n d t h e i r o w n c l i e n t b a s e . Within our

13i n s t i t u t i o n , t h e p r o c e s s o f u s i n g o u t c o m e d a t a f o r

14c o n t i n u o u s i m p r o v e m e n t i s e m b e d d e d i n t o t h e

15U n i v e r s i t y ’ s f u n c t i o n i n g . The faculty of the

16C u r r i c u l u m a n d A c a d e m i c P o l i c y C o m m i t t e e s , w h i c h

17i s t h e c o r e o f o u r f a c u l t y - s h a r e d g o v e r n a n c e

18s y s t e m , r e v i e w r e g u l a r l y t h e o u t c o m e s t h a t a r e p u t

19t o g e t h e r b y o u r O u t c o m e s A s s e s s m e n t D i v i s i o n . The

20f a c u l t y c o m m i t t e e s r e c o r d t h e i r a n a l y s e s , m a k e

21a c t i o n p l a n s f o r i m p r o v e m e n t i n t o a c o n c r e t e

22s y s t e m , a n d r e v i e w p r o g r e s s a g a i n s t p l a n s

23c o n t i n u o u s l y .

24 In terms of the accreditors in student

278

279
280
281 57
282

1a s s e s s m e n t , I w a n t t o m e n t i o n t h a t W a l d e n h a s b e e n

2a c c e p t e d i n t o t h e H i g h e r L e a r n i n g C o m m i s s i o n ’ s

3A c a d e m y o n t h e A s s e s s m e n t o f S t u d e n t L e a r n i n g . In

4t h e A c a d e m y , i n s t i t u t i o n s v o l u n t a r i l y p a r t i c i p a t e

5i n a f o u r - y e a r s e r i e s o f w o r k s h o p s a n d p r o j e c t s o n

6a s s e s s m e n t . The goal of the Academy is for

7i n s t i t u t i o n s t o i m p r o v e t h e i r a s s e s s m e n t p r o g r a m s

8a n d s h a r e t h e i r e x p e r i e n c e s w i t h t h e p e e r g r o u p .

9 Walden’s participation will serve as a

10s p r i n g b o a r d t o d e v e l o p i n g t h e n e x t i t e r a t i o n o f

11W a l d e n ’ s O u t c o m e s A s s e s s m e n t F r a m e w o r k .

12C h a l l e n g e s f o r t h e f u t u r e a t W a l d e n i n o u r

13a s s e s s m e n t p r o g r a m i n c l u d e i n t e g r a t i n g p e r i o d i c

14a c a d e m i c p r o g r a m r e v i e w a n d c o n t i n u o u s o u t c o m e

15a s s e s s m e n t , a s s e s s m e n t o f s t u d e n t s e r v i c e s ,

16p r o v i d i n g c a p a c i t y f o r l o n g i t u d i n a l a n a l y s i s

17p r o v i d i n g i n f o r m a t i o n t o t h e p u b l i c o n l e a r n i n g

18o u t c o m e s , a n d u s i n g t h i r d p a r t y r e s e a r c h i m p a c t

19a s s e s s m e n t m o r e b r o a d l y w i t h i n t h e i n s t i t u t i o n .

20 This new Academy, sponsored by the Higher

21L e a r n i n g C o m m i s s i o n , w i l l b e a v a l u a b l e s e r v i c e t o

22a s s i s t u s i n m o v i n g f o r w a r d w i t h t h o s e w i t h n o t

23o n l y t h e s u p p o r t o f o u r o w n i n s t i t u t i o n , b u t w i t h

24p e e r c o l l a b o r a t i o n .

283

284
285
286 58
287

1 Walden supports the general concept

2p r e s e n t e d b y t h e C o m m i s s i o n t h a t i n s t i t u t i o n s h a v e

3a r e s p o n s i b i l i t y t o d i s c l o s e m o r e i n f o r m a t i o n t o

4s t u d e n t s , p r o s p e c t i v e s t u d e n t s , a n d t h e p u b l i c i n

5o r d e r t o i m p r o v e i n s t i t u t i o n a l a c c o u n t a b i l i t y

6r e g a r d i n g s t u d e n t a c h i e v e m e n t , a n d t o h e l p

7s t u d e n t s t o m a k e m o r e i n f o r m e d d e c i s i o n s a b o u t

8t h e i r e d u c a t i o n . However, each school or type of

9i n s t i t u t i o n m a y d e f i n e s t u d e n t a c h i e v e m e n t

10d i f f e r e n t l y b a s e d u p o n t h e i r m i s s i o n a n d t h e

11p o p u l a t i o n t h e y s e r v e .

12 Any Federal policy regarding the

13d i s c l o s u r e o f d a t a f o r c o m p a r a t i v e p u r p o s e s s h o u l d

14r e s p e c t i n s t i t u t i o n a l d i s c r e t i o n a n d d i v e r s i t y i n

15t h a t r e g a r d . This is why Walden does not support

16a m a n d a t o r y t e s t i n g r e q u i r e m e n t a s a m e a s u r e o f

17s t u d e n t a s s e s s m e n t a n d i n s t i t u t i o n a l q u a l i t y a t

18t h e u n d e r g r a d u a t e l e v e l .

19 While national testing may be applicable

20i n t h e K - 1 2 s t u d y , w e b e l i e v e t h e d i v e r s i t y o f

21h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d d e g r e e s o f f e r e d

22p r e v e n t a n y a p p l i c a t i o n o f e f f e c t i v e t e s t i n g a t

23t h e u n d e r g r a d u a t e l e v e l . A testing requirement

24f o r a l l e l i g i b l e i n s t i t u t i o n s w o u l d u l t i m a t e l y

288

289
290
291 59
292

1r e s u l t i n t h e h o m o g e n i z a t i o n o f o u r h i g h e r

2e d u c a t i o n i n s t i t u t i o n s .

3 Alternatively, we believe it is possible

4t o r e q u i r e i n s t i t u t i o n s t o p u b l i c l y d i s c l o s e

5c e r t a i n s p e c i f i c i n f o r m a t i o n . We support the

6i d e a , f o r e x a m p l e , t h e g r a d u a t i o n r a t e s ,

7c o m p l e t i o n r e t e n t i o n r a t e s , t h e d i s c l o s i n g o f t h a t

8a r e u s e f u l t o t h e p u b l i c . When considering

9m e t h o d s f o r d o i n g s o , h o w e v e r , i t i s c r i t i c a l t h a t

10t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n c o n s i d e r t h e n e e d f o r

11c o n s i s t e n c y i n d e f i n i n g t h e s e t e r m s .

12 In addition, the Commission report

13s u g g e s t s t h e p o s s i b i l i t y o f r e q u i r i n g d i s c l o s u r e

14o f a l l o u t c o m e s b y b o t h t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

15E d u c a t i o n a n d b y a c c r e d i t o r s . While both entities

16m i g h t r e q u i r e i n s t i t u t i o n s t o r e p o r t s u c h d a t a ,

17e a c h o f t h e m f o r d i f f e r e n t p u r p o s e s , d i s c l o s u r e t o

18t h e p u b l i c s h o u l d c o o r d i n a t e b e t w e e n t h e r e l e v a n t

19e n t i t i e s .

20 Walden prides itself on its reputation and

21a c c o m p l i s h m e n t s i n p r o v i d i n g a q u a l i t y e d u c a t i o n

22e x c l u s i v e l y t h r o u g h d i s t a n c e l e a r n i n g . Distance

23e d u c a t i o n i s n o w a p r o v e n w a y i n w h i c h t o p r o v i d e

24a c c e s s t o a q u a l i t y e d u c a t i o n f o r m a n y l e a r n e r s

293

294
295
296 60
297

1w h o o t h e r w i s e m i g h t n o t b e a b l e t o e n r o l l . Walden

2w a s a t t h e f o r e f r o n t o f d i s t a n c e e d u c a t i o n w h e n w e

3w e r e f o u n d e d 3 5 y e a r s a g o , a n d w e h a v e s o m e i d e a s

4o n h o w t o e n c o u r a g e i n n o v a t i o n w h i l e e n s u r i n g

5c o n t i n u e d q u a l i t y .

6 Walden supported the recent repeal of the

75 0 p e r c e n t R u l e a s p a r t o f t h e e f f o r t t o e x p a n d

8a c c e s s t o d i s t a n c e e d u c a t i o n . However, with its

9r e p e a l c o m e s a d d i t i o n a l r e s p o n s i b i l i t y o n t h e p a r t

10o f t h e D e p a r t m e n t , t h e c r e d i t o r s , s t a t e s , a n d

11a c c r e d i t e d d i s t a n c e e d u c a t i o n i n s t i t u t i o n s

12t h e m s e l v e s .

13 We support the Department’s new

14r e g u l a t i o n s t h a t i m p l e m e n t t h e r e p e a l o f t h e 5 0

15p e r c e n t R u l e . In particular, we think it is

16c o n s i s t e n t w i t h t h e A c t ’ s i n t e n t t o c l a r i f y t h e

17d i s t i n c t i o n s b e t w e e n t e l e c o m m u n i c a t i o n s , d i s t a n c e

18e d u c a t i o n c o u r s e s , a n d c o r r e s p o n d e n c e c o u r s e s . We

19u n d e r s t a n d t h a t s o m e m a y h a v e c o n c e r n s a b o u t t h i s

20l a n g u a g e , a n d s p e c i f i c a l l y t h e n e e d t o c l a r i f y t h e

21t e r m , “ r e g u l a r a n d s u b s t a n t i v e i n t e r a c t i o n . ” We

22l o o k f o r w a r d t o c o n t i n u e d d i s c u s s i o n o f t h o s e

23t e r m s .

24 Walden has continually worked to ensure

298

299
300
301 61
302

1t h e a p p r o p r i a t e l e v e l o f i n t e r a c t i o n b e t w e e n o u r

2f a c u l t y a n d s t u d e n t s , a n d w e w e l c o m e t h e

3o p p o r t u n i t y t o s h a r e o u r e x p e r i e n c e i n d e f i n i n g

4t h o s e t e r m s w i t h t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n i f

5t h i s l a n g u a g e i s u n d e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n d u r i n g

6n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g .

7 We also believe that accreditation should

8p l a y a n i m p o r t a n t r o l e i n e n s u r i n g q u a l i t y i n

9d i s t a n c e e d u c a t i o n a s i t d o e s w i t h a l l

10i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d p r o g r a m s . While we supported the

11r e p e a l o f t h e 5 0 p e r c e n t R u l e , w e a l s o h a d a n

12e x p e c t a t i o n t h a t C o n g r e s s w o u l d i n c l u d e c e r t a i n

13s a f e g u a r d m e a s u r e s . It is important ensure that

14a l l r e c o g n i z e d a c c r e d i t e d a g e n c i e s a r e d o i n g a

15c o n s i s t e n t j o b s r e v i e w i n g i n s t i t u t i o n s t h a t o f f e r

16d i s t a n c e e d u c a t i o n .

17 Adjusting Title IV programs to better meet

18t h e n e e d s o f t h e i n d e p e n d e n t w o r k i n g a d u l t l e a r n e r

19i s o f g r e a t i m p o r t a n c e t o W a l d e n . While we

20r e c o g n i z e t h a t o u r r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s w i l l b e o u t s i d e

21t h e s c o p e o f n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g , w e b e l i e v e

22t h e y a r e i m p o r t a n t t o m e n t i o n . In my written

23s u b m i s s i o n , I h i g h l i g h t a n u m b e r o f

24r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s f o r f o c u s o n d i s c u s s i o n o n t h e

303

304
305
306 62
307

1P L U S L o a n P r o g r a m .

2 While we applaud the extension of the PLUS

3L o a n P r o g r a m f r o m j u s t p a r e n t s o f d e p e n d e n t

4u n d e r g r a d u a t e s t o w o r k i n g g r a d u a t e s t u d e n t s ,

5i n d e p e n d e n t a d u l t u n d e r g r a d u a t e s t u d e n t s r e m a i n

6e x c l u d e d . These students who represent the most

7i m p o r t a n t d e m o g r a p h i c t o e n r o l l o f t e n h a v e l e s s

8a c c e s s t o f u n d i n g t h a n o t h e r s . Again, I refer you

9t o P e t e r S o a k e s r e p o r t t o t h e C o m m i s s i o n a b o u t t h e

10d e m o g r a p h i c s o f t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n s t u d e n t

11p o p u l a t i o n . We strongly encourage the Department

12o f E d u c a t i o n t o c o n s i d e r t h e e x p a n s i o n o f t h e P L U S

13L o a n P r o g r a m t o i n c l u d e i n d e p e n d e n t u n d e r g r a d u a t e

14l e a r n e r s .

15 We, of course, also applaud Secretary

16S p e l l i n g ’ s i n i t i a t i v e t o s t r e a m l i n e t h e F A F S A

17a p p l i c a t i o n a n d a p p r o v a l p r o c e s s f o r s t u d e n t s w h o

18m a y m o r e q u i c k l y u n d e r s t a n d t h e f u n d i n g f o r w h i c h

19t h e y a r e e l i g i b l e . Such understanding often has a

20d i r e c t b e a r i n g o n t h e i r e d u c a t i o n a l c h o i c e s . This

21i s a n a r e a i n w h i c h t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n

22c a n i m p r o v e s y s t e m s w i t h o u t t h e n e e d f o r F e d e r a l

23l e g i s l a t i o n .

24 In conclusion, I ask that the Department

308

309
310
311 63
312

1o f E d u c a t i o n c o n s i d e r w h e n m a k i n g a n y c h a n g e s t o

2i t s r e g u l a t i o n s h o w t h e F e d e r a l g o v e r n m e n t a n d t h e

3h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n c o m m u n i t y m i g h t d o a b e t t e r j o b

4s e r v i n g t h e n e e d s o f t h e g r o w i n g c o h o r t o f

5i n d e p e n d e n t a d u l t l e a r n e r s . We believe that all

6s t u d e n t s a n d t h e p u b l i c w o u l d b e n e f i t f r o m t h e

7i n c r e a s e d d i s c l o s u r e o f s t u d e n t a s s e s s m e n t d a t a b y

8i n s t i t u t i o n s f r o m c o n t i n u e d g r o w t h a n d a c c e s s t o

9i n n o v a t i v e m e t h o d s o f t e a c h i n g a n d f r o m r e f o r m t o

10o u r f i n a n c i a l a i d s y s t e m s .

11 I look forward to any opportunity to work

12w i t h t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n o n t h e s e i s s u e s

13a s i t p r o c e e d s w i t h n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g .

14 Thank you very much.

15 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

16 I see my boss is coming down the aisle.

17 [Pause in proceedings.]

18 DAN MADZELAN: Some on-the-fly

19a d j u s t m e n t s .

20 DAN MADZELAN: Steven Crow.

21 STEVEN CROW: My name is Steven Crow, and

22I a m t h e E x e c u t i v e D i r e c t o r o f t h e H i g h e r L e a r n i n g

23C o m m i s s i o n o f t h e N o r t h C e n t r a l A s s o c i a t i o n o f

24C o l l e g e s a n d S c h o o l s .

313

314
315
316 64
317

1 The Commission is a regional accrediting

2a g e n c y t h a t a c c r e d i t s o v e r 1 , 0 0 0 c o l l e g e s a n d

3u n i v e r s i t i e s i n 1 9 s t a t e s .

4 I also appear today on behalf of the

5C o u n c i l o f R e g i o n a l A c c r e d i t i n g C o m m i s s i o n s , w h i c h

6I r e c e n t l y c h a i r e d . The Council, known as CRAC,

7i s c o m p r i s e d o f s e v e n r e g i o n a l h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

8a c c r e d i t i n g c o m m i s s i o n s i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s .

9 Thank you for the opportunity to comment

10o n a v a r i e t y o f i s s u e s g e r m a n e t o h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

11a n d t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n . Dr. Barbara

12B e n o , t h e c h a i r o f C R A C , s p o k e a t t h e h e a r i n g i n

13B e r k e l e y o n S e p t e m b e r 1 9 t h . I will not repeat most

14o f t h e p o i n t s s h e m a d e t h e r e a b o u t C R A C ’ s

15a c t i v i t i e s r e l a t e d t o t h e a u t h o r i z a t i o n o f t h e

16H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t , a n d t o t h e r e c e n t l y

17c o m p l e t e d N a t i o n a l C o m m i s s i o n o n t h e F u t u r e o f

18H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n . My comments today, as hers on

19S e p t e m b e r 1 9 t h , r e f l e c t t h e v i e w s o f t h e C o u n c i l o r

20R e g i o n a l A c c r e d i t i n g C o m m i s s i o n s .

21 We admit to some confusion about the

22v a r i o u s p r o p o s a l s t h e S e c r e t a r y o f E d u c a t i o n h a s

23m a d e a b o u t a c c r e d i t a t i o n . In the Federal Register

24f o r t h e s e h e a r i n g s , w e l e a r n e d o f t h e p l a n t o

318

319
320
321 65
322

1b e g i n a r o u n d o f n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g c o m m e n c i n g

2b y t h e e n d o f t h i s y e a r a n d s a w t h a t a c c r e d i t a t i o n

3w a s s p e c i f i c a l l y i n c l u d e d i n t h e s c o p e o f t h a t

4n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g . In her speech on September

52 7 t h , S e c r e t a r y S p e l l i n g s a n n o u n c e d p l a n s f o r a

6s u m m i t i n N o v e m b e r o n a c c r e d i t a t i o n .

7 Through Barbara Beno, CRAC stated the case

8t h a t i t w o u l d b e w i s e r t o p o s t p o n e a n y n e g o t i a t e d

9r u l e m a k i n g r e l a t e d t o a c c r e d i t a t i o n u n t i l a f t e r

10C o n g r e s s r e a u t h o r i z e s t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t ,

11p r o b a b l y n e x t y e a r . In light of some of the

12c h a n g e s c o n t a i n e d i n t h e H o u s e a n d S e n a t e d r a f t s

13i n S e c t i o n H o f H E A t h i s y e a r , w e e x p e c t a

14n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g o n a c c r e d i t a t i o n m a y

15p o t e n t i a l l y n e e d t o o c c u r w i t h i n a f e w m o n t h s o f

16t h e r o u n d c o n t e m p l a t e d t o s t a r t t h i s w i n t e r .

17 Our suggestion to postpone negotiated

18r u l e m a k i n g a p p l i e s o n l y t o a c c r e d i t a t i o n . We are

19f u l l y a w a r e t h a t n e w r e g u l a t i o n s n e e d t o b e

20c r a f t e d f o r c h a n g e s i n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n f u n d i n g

21t h a t h a v e b e e n a p p r o v e d . And we understand that

22t h e D O E a n d t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n c o m m u n i t y w o u l d

23b e w e l l s e r v e d b y a n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g o n t h e s e

24m a t t e r s . With respect to accreditation, it seems

323

324
325
326 66
327

1m o r e l i k e l y t h a t , i n t h e s h o r t r u n , m o r e u s e f u l

2c o l l a b o r a t i o n m i g h t b e m a d e t h r o u g h t h e p r o p o s e d

3s u m m i t t h a n t h r o u g h n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g .

4 Secretary Spellings has made it clear that

5s h e w a n t s a c c r e d i t a t i o n t o p l a y a m o r e v i t a l r o l e

6i n a s s e s s i n g s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g , w h i l e e a g e r t o

7p a r t i c i p a t e i n a d i s c u s s i o n a b o u t w h a t t h a t r o l e

8m i g h t b e a n d h o w i t m i g h t b e a c h i e v e d . However,

9t h e S e c r e t a r y h a s m i s u n d e r s t o o d a s s e s s m e n t a n d

10a c c r e d i t a t i o n b y c o m m e n t i n g t h a t t h e a c c r e d i t a t i o n

11p r o c e s s o n l y i n q u i r e s w h e t h e r a n i n s t i t u t i o n d o e s

12a s s e s s m e n t , a n d t h e n i s s a t i s f i e d w i t h a y e s - o r - n o

13r e s p o n s e .

14 Strong assessment of student learning

15r e q u i r e s t h a t f a c u l t y d e t e r m i n e a n d s t a t e c l e a r

16l e a r n i n g g o a l s a n d t h e n c r e a t e m e t h o d s b y w h i c h

17t h e y d e t e r m i n e w h e t h e r a s t u d e n t a c h i e v e s t h o s e

18g o a l s . From these assessments, faculty and

19a d m i n i s t r a t i o n p l a n a n d f u n d w a y s t o e n h a n c e

20s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g . This is hard and complex work

21t h a t n e v e r r e a l l y e n d s .

22 Therefore, it should be no surprise that

23w i t h i n m y C o m m i s s i o n , a t l e a s t 5 0 p e r c e n t o f o u r

24a c c r e d i t a t i o n d e c i s i o n s i n t h e p a s t f e w y e a r s h a v e

328

329
330
331 67
332

1i n v o l v e d r e q u i r i n g f o l l o w - u p o n t h e e f f e c t i v e n e s s

2o f a g i v e n i n s t i t u t i o n ’ s p r a c t i c e s o n a s s e s s m e n t .

3E v e r y o t h e r r e g i o n c o u l d r e p o r t t h e s a m e . Most

4r e g i o n a l l y a c c r e d i t e d c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s , I

5t h i n k , w i l l f r e e l y t e s t i f y t h a t f o r t h e p a s t 1 0 - 1 5

6y e a r s , a s s e s s m e n t o f s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g h a s , i n m a n y

7w a y s , s h a p e d t h e i r r e l a t i o n s h i p w i t h t h e i r

8r e g i o n a l a c c r e d i t i n g a g e n c y .

9 All recent revisions to regional

10a c c r e d i t a t i o n s t a n d a r d s h a v e m a d e a s s e s s m e n t o f

11s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g c o r e t o t h e a c c r e d i t a t i o n

12e n t e r p r i s e . In addition, thousands of

13a d m i n i s t r a t o r s a n d f a c u l t i e s h a v e a t t e n d e d s c o r e s

14o f m e e t i n g s a n d w o r k s h o p s p r o v i d e d b y r e g i o n a l

15a s s o c i a t i o n s t h a t w a n t t o e d u c a t e t h e s e

16i n s t i t u t i o n a l r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o n w a y s o f m a k i n g

17t h e i r a s s e s s m e n t p r a c t i c e s m o r e e f f e c t i v e . To be

18s u r e , w e a l s o g i v e a s s i s t a n c e i n p r o v i d i n g b e t t e r

19i n f o r m a t i o n t o t h e i r a c c r e d i t o r a b o u t a s s e s s m e n t

20o f s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g o n t h e i r c a m p u s e s .

21 Regional accreditors see assessment as a

22m a j o r m e a s u r e b y w h i c h t o s h i f t t h e c u l t u r e o f o u r

23c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s t o p l a c e a h i g h v a l u e o n

24l e a r n i n g m o r e a b o u t w h a t s t u d e n t s l e a r n o n t h e i r

333

334
335
336 68
337

1w a y t o a d e g r e e . We believe that effective change

2i n t h e l e a r n i n g e n v i r o n m e n t s c r e a t e d b y

3i n s t i t u t i o n s s h o u l d b e d r i v e n b y e v i d e n c e r a t h e r

4t h a n i n s t i n c t , b y k n o w i n g r a t h e r t h a n a s s e r t i o n ,

5b y d e p e n d a b l e d a t a r a t h e r t h a n s u r m i s e .

6 Institutional self-studies and peer review

7t e a m r e p o r t s a r e f i l l e d w i t h e v a l u a t i o n s o f

8a s s e s s m e n t p r o g r a m s a n d a d v i c e o n h o w t o m a k e

9a s s e s s m e n t a n e f f e c t i v e m a n a g e m e n t t o o l f o r

10e d u c a t i o n a l q u a l i t y . It has been a challenging

11l e s s o n t o t e a c h a n d a h a r d o n e f o r i n s t i t u t i o n s t o

12l e a r n . The amount of follow-up testifies to that

13a n d t o t h e c o m m i t m e n t o f r e g i o n a l a c c r e d i t a t i o n t o

14c o n t i n u e a n d e n h a n c e t h e a s s e s s m e n t i m p e r a t i v e .

15 But we have come to understand that this

16i n s t i t u t i o n a l l y s p e c i f i c , m i s s i o n - b a s e d

17a s s e s s m e n t , n o m a t t e r h o w u s e f u l i t m i g h t b e f o r

18o u r c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s , d o e s n o t

19n e c e s s a r i l y p r o v i d e t h e k i n d o f c o m p a r a b l e d a t a

20a b o u t l e a r n i n g t h a t t h e N a t i o n a l C o m m i s s i o n

21p r o p o s e s a n d t h e S e c r e t a r y s e e k s .

22 It is worth noting that the wording

23c o n s i d e r e d b y t h e S e n a t e a n d t h e H o u s e t h i s y e a r ,

24i n r e v i s i n g t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t , s u g g e s t e d

338

339
340
341 69
342

1t h a t F e d e r a l l y r e c o g n i z e d a c c r e d i t i n g a g e n c y

2s t a n d a r d s r e l a t e d t o s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g s h o u l d

3v a l u e , a m o n g o t h e r t h i n g s , s u c h a s t h e d e g r e e

4c o m p l e t i o n a n d j o b p l a c e m e n t , t h e k i n d s o f d a t a

5u s e d b y i n s t i t u t i o n s t o i m p r o v e t h e i r p r o g r a m s .

6T h i s h i g h l y s p e c i f i c t o e a c h i n s t i t u t i o n , s o w e d o

7n e e d t o h a v e a n i m p o r t a n t d i s c u s s i o n w i t h t h e

8S e c r e t a r y a b o u t t h e i d e a t h a t a c c r e d i t a t i o n c a n

9s u p p o r t a n a t i o n a l i n s t i t u t i o n a l r e p o r t i n g s c h e m e

10g u a r a n t e e d t o p r o v i d e u s e f u l p o i n t s o f c o m p a r a b l e

11d a t a .

12 The report of the National Commission, by

13t h e w a y , w a s n o t t h e f i r s t t o n o t e t h a t

14a c c o u n t a b i l i t y a n d a s s e s s m e n t a r e n o t s y n o n y m o u s ,

15a n d t h a t t h e y d o n o t n e c e s s a r i l y s e r v e t h e s a m e

16e n d s . At this point, we are concerned that the

17s h i f t t o n a t i o n a l l y c o m p a r a b l e d a t a i s l i k e l y t o

18h a v e t h e u n i n t e n d e d c o n s e q u e n c e o f u n d e r c u t t i n g

19t h e e f f o r t s o f r e g i o n a l a c c r e d i t a t i o n a n d o u r

20m e m b e r i n s t i t u t i o n s t o m a k e a s s e s s m e n t a p o w e r f u l

21t o o l f o r e d u c a t i o n a l i m p r o v e m e n t .

22 The debate over the right mix of national

23t e s t s o r s o m e o t h e r m e a n s o f d e v e l o p i n g u n i f o r m

24c o m p a r a b l e p e r f o r m a n c e d a t a p r o m i s e s t o b e h e a t e d .

343

344
345
346 70
347

1T h e e n e r g y b u r n e d t h e r e , p a r t i c u l a r l y t h a t o f

2f a c u l t y w h o a r e f u n d a m e n t a l t o t h e s u c c e s s o f

3a s s e s s m e n t , p r o b a b l y w i l l c o m e a t t h e e x p e n s e o f

4m a k i n g p r o g r e s s i n a s s e s s m e n t .

5 Make no mistake, in higher education no

6a s s e s s m e n t s c h e m e w i l l w o r k u n l e s s t h e f a c u l t y

7b e l i e v e s i t i s w o r t h w h i l e f o r t h e s u c c e s s o f t h e i r

8s t u d e n t s a n d f o r t h e a b i l i t y o f t h e f a c u l t y t o

9i m p r o v e t e a c h i n g a n d l e a r n i n g . While a few

10n a t i o n a l t e s t s m a y w e l l p r o v i d e c o m p a r a b l e d a t a

11f o r c o n s u m e r s a n d p o l i c y m a k e r s , w e a r e c o n f i d e n t

12t h a t , i n a n d o f t h e m s e l v e s , t h e y d o n o t p r o v i d e

13t h e r i c h m i x o f e v a l u a t i o n s t r a t e g i e s f o u n d i n

14a s s e s s m e n t s t h a t l e a d t o n e c e s s a r y e d u c a t i o n a l

15i m p r o v e m e n t .

16 This is not an either/or situation before

17u s . Instead, it is a both/and. We understand,

18a n d w e l o o k f o r w a r d t o t h e c o n v e r s a t i o n s t h a t

19c o n t r i b u t e t o u n d e r s t a n d a n d r e a s o n a b l e s h a r e d

20r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s a m o n g i n s t i t u t i o n s , s t a t e s ,

21a c c r e d i t o r s , a n d t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n .

22 Thank you for your time.

23 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

24 DAN MADZELAN: George Torres.

348

349
350
351 71
352

1 GEORGE TORRES: Thank you.

2 As a result in the sudden change in the

3w e a t h e r f r o m A u s t i n , T e x a s t o C h i c a g o , a n d t h e

4f a c t t h a t t h e c a b d r i v e r a s k e d m e i f I h a d a m a p ,

5I w i l l b e b r i e f .

6 [Laughter.]

7 GEORGE TORRES: My name is George Torres.

8I a m t h e A s s i s t a n t V i c e P r e s i d e n t f o r

9C o n g r e s s i o n a l L e g i s l a t i v e R e l a t i o n s w i t h T e x a s

10G u a r a n t e e d S t u d e n t L o a n C o r p o r a t i o n . I cannot

11h e a r w h a t I a m s a y i n g , I a m s o r r y , b e c a u s e o f t h e

12c h a n g e i n w e a t h e r . So let me know if what I am

13s a y i n g i s c l e a r .

14 I do have a detailed copy of my testimony

15o u t s i d e , s o I w i l l b e v e r y b r i e f . This is just a

16s u m m a r y . Texas Guaranteed Student Loan

17C o r p o r a t i o n w a s e s t a b l i s h e d i n 1 9 7 9 b y t h e T e x a s

18L e g i s l a t u r e a s a p u b l i c n o n - p r o f i t c o r p o r a t i o n t o

19a d m i n i s t e r t h e F e d e r a l e d u c a t i o n l o a n p r o g r a m f o r

20t h e S t a t e o f T e x a s , a n d t o p r o v i d e o t h e r r e l a t e d

21p r o g r a m s t o s u p p o r t t h e s t a t e ’ s p o s t s e c o n d a r y

22e d u c a t i o n e f f o r t s , s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a i d ,

23r e c r u i t m e n t , r e t e n t i o n p r o g r a m s , t h o s e k i n d s o f

24t h i n g s - - o u t r e a c h a w a r e n e s s .

353

354
355
356 72
357

1 At the outset, we would like to make a

2c o u p l e o f p o i n t s . One is that we, along with the

3C B A , t h e E d u c a t i o n F i n a n c e C o u n c i l , t h e N a t i o n a l

4A s s o c i a t i o n o f S t u d e n t L o a n A d m i n i s t r a t o r s , a n d

5t h e S t u d e n t L o a n S e r v i c i n g A l l i a n c e , s u b m i t t e d

6c o m m e n t s t o t h e i n t e r i m f i n a l r e g u l a t i o n s

7p u b l i s h e d t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n i n A u g u s t ,

8a n d w e a p p r e c i a t e t h e D e p a r t m e n t ’ s c o n s i d e r a t i o n

9o f t h o s e c o m m e n t s . We also want to support

10p r e v i o u s i n p u t t o t h e D e p a r t m e n t t h a t s t r o n g l y

11e n c o u r a g e s t h e D e p a r t m e n t n e x t y e a r d u r i n g t h e

12r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n o f t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t t o d o

13a l l t h a t y o u c a n t o u r g e t h e C o n g r e s s t o i n c r e a s e

14s p e n d i n g f o r n e e d - b a s e d g r a n t s , e s p e c i a l l y f o r t h e

15P e l l G r a n t P r o g r a m . And to hopefully increase the

16i n c o m e p r o t e c t i o n a m o u n t s f o r s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l

17a i d a p p l i c a n t s .

18 These statutory changes have been

19r e c o m m e n d e d b y b o t h t h e a d v i s o r y c o m m i t t e e i n

20s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a s s i s t a n c e , a s w e l l a s t h e

21S e c r e t a r y ’ s C o m m i s s i o n . And doing just those two

22t h i n g s w i l l g o a l o n g w a y i n i n c r e a s i n g a c c e s s t o

23h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n f o r l o w - i n c o m e s t u d e n t s a n d

24f a m i l i e s .

358

359
360
361 73
362

1 In Texas, 70 percent of all financial aid

2a w a r d e d e v e r y y e a r i s t h r o u g h t h e F e d e r a l p r o g r a m ,

3w h i c h i s u n f o r t u n a t e . We do not like it, but that

4i s t h e w a y i t i s . Ninety percent is through the

5F e d e r a l p r o g r a m s . So the Federal programs are

6v e r y , v e r y i m p o r t a n t i n t h e S t a t e o f T e x a s .

7M a k i n g t h e s e c h a n g e s , o p e n i n g u p t h e s e p r o g r a m s a s

8m u c h a s p o s s i b l e w i l l h e l p e v e r y b o d y .

9 For negotiated rulemaking, I am just going

10t o t o u c h o n t h r e e i s s u e s . One is that, because of

11t h e s i z e o f t h e s t u d e n t l o a n p r o g r a m , a b o u t h a l f

12o f a l l t h e f i n a n c i a l a i d i n t h e c o u n t r y i s

13g e n e r a t e d t h r o u g h s t u d e n t l o a n s t h r o u g h t h e F F E L P .

14A n d b e c a u s e a c o r e f o c u s o f g u a r a n t o r s i s t o t r y

15t o w o r k w i t h t h e s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a i d c o m m u n i t y

16t o m a x i m i z e t h e s u c c e s s o f b o r r o w e r s i n r e p a y i n g

17t h e i r l o a n s , w o r k i n g w i t h t h e D e p a r t m e n t , w i t h

18f a m i l i e s , w i t h s c h o o l s , w i t h l e n d e r s , w i t h s t u d e n t

19l o a n s e r v i c e s t h r o u g h o u t t h e l i f e o f t h e l o a n , w e

20f e e l i t i s o f u t m o s t i m p o r t a n c e t h a t a g u a r a n t o r

21b e a p a r t o f t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g t e a m .

22 Therefore, Texas Guaranteed has nominated,

23a n d s t r o n g l y e n c o u r a g e s t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

24E d u c a t i o n t o a p p r o v e , a s i n p a s t y e a r s , a

363

364
365
366 74
367

1g u a r a n t o r o f t h e N a t i o n a l A s s o c i a t i o n o f S t u d e n t

2L o a n A d m i n i s t r a t o r s t o r e p r e s e n t t h e i n t e r e s t o f

3t h e F F E O a s t h e p r i m a r y s o u r c e o f f i n a n c i a l a i d t o

4t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g t e a m .

5 The issues of negotiated rulemaking,

6a g a i n , b e c a u s e o u r f o c u s i s o n t r y i n g t o s i m p l i f y

7t h e p r o c e s s o f a p p l y i n g f o r s t u d e n t l o a n s i n b o t h

8t h e F F E L a s w e l l a s t h e D i r e c t L o a n P r o g r a m , w e

9u r g e t h e D e p a r t m e n t t o l o o k a t s i m p l i f y i n g t h e

10m e t h o d o f o b t a i n i n g a n d g r a n t i n g s t u d e n t l o a n

11d e f e r m e n t s . Currently, a borrower must document

12e l i g i b i l i t y f o r t h i s b e n e f i t w i t h h i s o r h e r

13l e n d e r , a n d a h o l d e r c a n g r a n t o n l y a n i n - s c h o o l

14d e f e r m e n t i f t h e h o l d e r r e c e i v e s i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t

15s u p p o r t s t h e b o r r o w e r s ’ e l i g i b i l i t y f o r t h e

16d e f e r m e n t .

17 To simplify the process, Texas Guaranteed

18s u g g e s t s t h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t r e q u i r e a h o l d e r t o

19g r a n t a n y t y p e o f d e f e r m e n t t o t h e b o r r o w e r ,

20n o t i f y t h e b o r r o w e r i f t h a t b o r r o w e r h a s c u r r e n t l y

21b e e n g r a n t e d s u c h a d e f e r m e n t b a s e d u p o n

22d o c u m e n t a t i o n o b t a i n e d b y a n o t h e r h o l d e r . We also

23t h i n k t h a t t h e N a t i o n a l S t u d e n t L o a n D a t a S y s t e m

24c o u l d p r o b a b l y b e u s e d t o a c c o m p l i s h t h i s a n d t o

368

369
370
371 75
372

1s i m p l i f y t h a t p r o c e s s .

2 Utilization of discretionary

3f o r b e a r a n c e - - w h i l e f o r b e a r a n c e c a n b e a u s e f u l

4t o o l i n p r e v e n t i n g d e f a u l t s , g u a r a n t o r s h a v e f o u n d

5t h a t t h e r e i s l i t t l e t h a t c a n b e d o n e f o r

6b o r r o w e r s t o r e s o l v e m i d - a n d l a t e s t a g e a n d

7p r e v e n t d e f a u l t s b e c a u s e o f h e a v y u s e o f

8d i s c r e t i o n a r y f o r b e a r a n c e e a r l y i n t h e i r

9r e p a y m e n t . We suggest the Department examine

10w h e t h e r t h e c u r r e n t u s e o f f o r b e a r a n c e i s

11a p p r o p r i a t e a n d , i f n o t , i m p l e m e n t c h a n g e s t o

12s t r e n g t h e n i t s u s e b y e n c o u r a g i n g l e n d e r s t o

13i n c r e a s e c o u n s e l i n g t o b o r r o w e r s r e g a r d i n g t h e

14i m p a c t o f f o r b e a r a n c e o n l o a n r e p a y m e n t

15i l l u s t r a t i n g t o t h e b o r r o w e r t h e i m p a c t o f

16i n t e r e s t o v e r t i m e , r e q u i r i n g s o m e t y p e o f p a y m e n t

17w h e n t h e b o r r o w e r h a s u s e d o n e o r m o r e y e a r s o f

18f o r b e a r a n c e b e f o r e g r a n t i n g a s u b s e q u e n t

19f o r b e a r a n c e , r e i n f o r c i n g w i t h l e n d e r s a n d

20g u a r a n t o r s t h e i m p o r t a n c e o f b o r r o w e r s

21e s t a b l i s h i n g r e s p o n s i b l e r e p a y m e n t h a b i t s e a r l y ,

22a n d t h e i m p o r t a n c e o f b o r r o w e r s p r o m p t l y r e s u m i n g

23r e p a y m e n t s a f t e r a p e r i o d o f n o n - p a y m e n t d u e t o a

24d e f e r m e n t o f f o r b e a r a n c e . And, probably most

373

374
375
376 76
377

1i m p o r t a n t , r e q u i r i n g l e n d e r s a n d g u a r a n t o r s t o

2p r o m o t e t h e u s e o f d e f e r m e n t t o o b t a i n a n e c o n o m i c

3h a r d s h i p d e f e r m e n t a l t e r n a t i v e r e p a y m e n t o p t i o n s ,

4s u c h a s g r a d u a t e d r e p a y m e n t s p l a n s , i n t e r e s t o n l y

5p a y m e n t s , o r r e d u c e d p a y m e n t f o r b e a r a n c e p r i o r t o

6g r a n t i n g a d i s c r e t i o n a r y f o r b e a r a n c e .

7 Exit counseling--we would like the

8D e p a r t m e n t t o r e c o m m e n d o r r e e v a l u a t e e x i t

9c o u n s e l i n g r e q u i r e m e n t s t o i n c l u d e t h e n e w

10g r a d u a t e d p r o f e s s i o n a l G r a d P L U S b o r r o w e r s , a s w e l l

11a s S t a f f o r d b o r r o w e r s w h o h a v e o b t a i n e d i n - s c h o o l

12c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n s . And that exit counseling

13i n c l u d e a d i s c u s s i o n o f a g r a c e p e r i o d a n d i t s

14a p p l i c a b i l i t y o n l y t o S t a f f o r d L o a n s t h a t h a v e n o t

15b e e n c o n s o l i d a t e d , d i s c u s s i o n o f t h e a v a i l a b i l i t y

16o f d e f e r m e n t a n d f o r b e a r a n c e f o r G r a d P L U S a n d

17c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n b o r r o w e r s , e n c o u r a g i n g t h e

18b o r r o w e r t o e s t a b l i s h e a r l y r e p a y m e n t h a b i t s , a n d

19a w a r n i n g a b o u t t h e i m p a c t o f t a k i n g a d v a n t a g e o f

20a l o n g e r r e p a y m e n t p e r i o d , a s p e r m i t t e d u n d e r t h e

21e x t e n d e d r e p a y m e n t s c h e d u l e , a s w e l l a s u n d e r t h e

22c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n p r o g r a m .

23 On a final note, Texas Guaranteed supports

24t h e v i e w s e x p r e s s e d i n t h e t w o S e p t e m b e r l e t t e r s

378

379
380
381 77
382

1f r o m 1 2 U . S . S e n a t o r s - - I t h i n k t h e r e w e r e 1 4 U . S .

2S e n a t o r s o n t h e o t h e r l e t t e r - - c o n c e r n i n g t h e

3r e g u l a t i o n s t h a t w i l l b e p r o m u l g a t e d t o i m p l e m e n t

4c h a n g e s t h a t w e r e m a d e i n t h e D e f i c i t R e d u c t i o n

5A c t c o n c e r n i n g t h e p a y m e n t o f s p e c i a l a l l o w a n c e

6f o r c e r t a i n l e n d e r s . That was the letter that was

7s e n t o n S e p t e m b e r 1 s t s i g n e d b y 1 4 S e n a t o r s , I

8b e l i e v e , i n c l u d i n g M r . E n s i g n a n d M r . K e n n e d y .

9A n d t h e S e p t e m b e r 6 t h l e t t e r f r o m - - w e l l , I d o n o t

10t h i n k M r . K e n n e d y s i g n e d t h a t o n e , b u t t h e

11S e p t e m b e r 6 t h l e t t e r s i g n e d b y M r . E n s i g n a n d M r .

12K e n n e d y a n d 1 0 o t h e r S e n a t o r s r e g a r d i n g t h e

13t r e a t m e n t o f t h e C o m m i s s i o n ’ s r e p o r t i n n e g o t i a t e d

14r u l e m a k i n g .

15 Having said all of that, it is certainly

16o u r i n t e n t t h a t T e x a s G u a r a n t e e d w o r k i n

17c o n j u n c t i o n w i t h o u r s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a i d

18c o m m u n i t y t o w o r k w i t h o u r c o n g r e s s i o n a l

19d e l e g a t i o n n e x t y e a r a n d w i t h t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

20E d u c a t i o n d u r i n g t h e r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n a n d t o d o

21e v e r y t h i n g w e c a n t o e d u c a t e o u r d e l e g a t i o n o n t h e

22f i n d i n g s o f t h e a d v i s o r y c o m m i t t e e o n s t u d e n t

23f i n a n c i a l a i d , w h i c h , a g a i n , f o r t h e t h i r d t i m e , I

24t h i n k , t h i s d e c a d e , h a s f o u n d t h a t t h e t w o b i g g e s t

383

384
385
386 78
387

1b a r r i e r s t o o b t a i n i n g h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i s

2i n a d e q u a t e i n d e x f u n d i n g a n d t h e c o s t o f

3e d u c a t i o n , a s w e l l a s w o r k i n g w i t h t h e m o n

4r e v i e w i n g t h e f i n d i n g s o f t h e S e c r e t a r y ’ s

5C o m m i s s i o n .

6 That is it for me. Thank you.

7 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you very much.

8 DAN MADZELAN: Alan Stager.

9 ALAN STAGER: Hello, my name is Alan

10S t a g e r , a n d I a m a j u n i o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

11W i s c o n s i n W a u k e s h a . I am also the student

12g o v e r n m e n t p r e s i d e n t a t U W W a u k e s h a . I would

13f i r s t l i k e t o t h a n k y o u g u y s f o r h e a r i n g s t u d e n t s

14t o d a y .

15 Going back to my public education in high

16s c h o o l , I k n o w I h a d t o w o r k h a r d t o g e t a g r e a t

17e d u c a t i o n a n d g e t i n t o a g r e a t c o l l e g e . What I

18d i d n o t r e a l i z e w a s t h a t n o m a t t e r h o w h a r d I

19w o r k e d , m y c h o i c e o f c o l l e g e w o u l d u l t i m a t e l y

20d e p e n d o n c o s t . Working hard is what I did. I

21w o r k e d t o r e c e i v e t w o s c h o l a r s h i p s a n d a l s o b e g a n

22w o r k i n g f u l l - t i m e a t t h e a g e o f 1 5 . My initial

23c h o i c e s i n c o l l e g e w e r e t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

24W i s c o n s i n M i l w a u k e e a n d t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

388

389
390
391 79
392

1W i s c o n s i n M a d i s o n , t w o o f t h e l a r g e r r e s e a r c h

2u n i v e r s i t i e s i n t h e a r e a , k n o w i n g t h a t t h e s e w o u l d

3b e b e t t e r f o r m y e d u c a t i o n a n d b e t t e r f o r m y

4r e s u m e , a n d b e i n g a b l e t o g e t a b e t t e r j o b o u t o f

5c o l l e g e .

6 My choice to go to UW Waukesha was pretty

7m u c h , b a s i c a l l y , s o l e l y o n c o s t . It would be

8a b o u t h a l f a s m u c h a s i t w o u l d b e c o m p a r e d t o

9g o i n g t o U W M i l w a u k e e o r M a d i s o n - - n o t n e c e s s a r i l y

10t h e q u a l i t y b u t l i k e I s a i d , t h e c o s t .

11 Coming from a middle class family, I am

12n o t e l i g i b l e f o r a n y f i n a n c i a l a i d . My brother

13a n d I h a v e n o t r e c e i v e d a n y f i n a n c i a l a i d f r o m m y

14f a m i l y , e x c e p t f o r t h e h o u s e w e l i v e i n , b a s i c a l l y

15b e c a u s e m y p a r e n t s a r e g o i n g t o b e r e t i r i n g s o o n ,

16a n d a l s o t h e y h a v e t h e i r i n t e r e s t s t o w o r r y a b o u t

17a s f a r a s b e i n g a b l e t o l i v e f o r t h e r e s t o f t h e i r

18l i v e s .

19 Like I said, I have been working full-time

20o v e r t h e s u m m e r s a n d p a r t - t i m e d u r i n g t h e s c h o o l

21y e a r , w o r k i n g 2 4 - 2 5 h o u r s a w e e k , s o m e w h e r e a r o u n d

22t h e r e , t h r o u g h o u t c o l l e g e . There have been many

23t i m e s t h a t m y s t u d i e s h a v e s u f f e r e d . There have

24b e e n m a n y t i m e s w h e n I h a d t o c h o o s e w h a t c l a s s e s

393

394
395
396 80
397

1t o s k i p t o s t u d y f o r t h e o t h e r c l a s s e s , b e c a u s e I

2s p e n t t h e w h o l e n i g h t b e f o r e w o r k i n g .

3 Every day is a struggle between school and

4w o r k , m a k i n g s u r e t h a t I p a s s a l l m y c l a s s e s , n o t

5t o m e n t i o n g e t t i n g g o o d g r a d e s , a n d f o l l o w i n g

6t h r o u g h o n p r o m i s e s a t w o r k t o m y b o s s , m a k i n g

7s u r e I c a n c o n t i n u e t o g o t o s c h o o l , w h i c h a l s o

8l e a v e s n o t i m e f o r s t u d y g r o u p s , s p o r t s , c l u b s ,

9a n d o r g a n i z a t i o n s o n c a m p u s . It makes it really

10h a r d t o j u g g l e a l l t h r e e a n d s t i l l m a k e s u r e I g e t

11a g o o d e d u c a t i o n a n d b e a b l e t o g e t a g o o d j o b o u t

12o f c o l l e g e .

13 After I graduate college, I will have

14r a c k e d u p o v e r $ 1 5 , 0 0 0 i n d e b t . I mean, that is

15m y p l a n s o f a r . If I can get out with $15,000 in

16d e b t t h a t w o u l d b e g o o d - - w e l l , a s g o o d a s I c a n

17g e t f o r n o w , I g u e s s . I decided to go to a two-

18y e a r c o l l e g e , l i k e I s a i d , t o s a v e o n c o s t . If I

19d i d n o t , I w o u l d b e l o o k i n g a t u p w a r d s o f $ 2 0 -

203 0 , 0 0 0 i n d e b t .

21 Working and getting scholarships has

22o b v i o u s l y h e l p e d b r i n g t h a t d o w n , b u t $ 1 5 , 0 0 0 i n

23d e b t c o m i n g o u t o f c o l l e g e t o s t a r t m y l i f e o f f I

24d o n o t t h i n k i s f a i r . I mean I was planning on

398

399
400
401 81
402

1s t a r t i n g m y l i f e a f t e r I g o t o u t o f c o l l e g e , n o t

2a f t e r I h a d t o p a y o f f m y s t u d e n t d e b t .

3 Being at Waukesha, I started getting

4i n v o l v e d i n s t u d e n t o r g a n i z a t i o n s . Like I said,

5i t w a s a h a r d j u g g l e b e t w e e n c l a s s e s a n d w o r k , b u t

6e v e r y t i m e I c o u l d , I h a v e b e e n w o r k i n g t o - - I h a v e

7b e e n e n j o y i n g s t u d e n t o r g a n i z a t i o n s .

8 I am actually at Waukesha right now

9b e c a u s e I r e a l l y b e l i e v e i n t h e i r w a y o f l e a r n i n g ,

10a n d t h e i r a c c e s s i b i l i t y j u s t m e a n s t h a t I d o n o t

11n e c e s s a r i l y h a v e e n o u g h m o n e y t o g o t o a f o u r - y e a r

12c o l l e g e r i g h t a w a y . That is why I am President

13r i g h t n o w a t U W W a u k e s h a . I really believe that

14e d u c a t i o n s h o u l d b e o p e n t o m o r e s t u d e n t s , n o t

15o n l y m y s e l f , b e i n g a m i d d l e c l a s s s t u d e n t t h a t i s

16s t r u g g l i n g t o g e t t h r o u g h c o l l e g e , b u t f o r

17e v e r y o n e t h a t i s n o t a s p r i v i l e g e d a s I a m t o b e a

18m i d d l e c l a s s s t u d e n t .

19 Some of the things that I would really

20l i k e t o s e e b e d o n e t o h e l p s t u d e n t s g e t m o r e

21a c c e s s i b l e e d u c a t i o n i s m o r e p r o g r a m s f o r h i g h

22s c h o o l s t u d e n t s t o g e t e n c o u r a g e d t o g o t o

23c o l l e g e , m o r e f i n a n c i a l a i d f o r s t u d e n t s w h o m i g h t

24b e f i r s t g e n e r a t i o n s t u d e n t s t o g o i n t o c o l l e g e ,

403

404
405
406 82
407

1a s f a r a s t h e i r f a m i l i e s , l o w e r i n g t u i t i o n , n o t

2o n l y f o r t h o s e s t u d e n t s w h o d o n o t h a v e e n o u g h

3m o n e y t o g o , b u t a l s o m i d d l e c l a s s s t u d e n t s l i k e

4m y s e l f t h a t w i l l e n d u p w i t h $ 1 5 - , $ 2 0 - , $ 3 0 , 0 0 0

5i n d e b t . I guess the real question is, I guess,

6g e t t i n g t h r o u g h c o l l e g e , l i k e I s a i d , i s h a r d f o r

7m e , w h a t a b o u t a l l t h o s e l e s s f o r t u n a t e s t u d e n t s

8t h a t w i l l n o t h a v e t h i s o p p o r t u n i t y t h a t I h a v e .

9 Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you very much.

11 DAN MADZELAN: Kiley Williams.

12 KILEY WILLIAMS: Good morning. My name is

13K i l e y W i l l i a m s . I am a student at the University

14o f W i s c o n s i n O s h k o s h , a n d I a m t h e v i c e p r e s i d e n t

15o f U n i t e d C o u n c i l o f U n i v e r s i t y W i s c o n s i n

16S t u d e n t s , w h i c h r e p r e s e n t s 1 2 5 , 0 0 0 s t u d e n t s o n 2 1

17c a m p u s e s i n t h e U W s y s t e m .

18 I began my college education at one of

19t h o s e c a m p u s e s , t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f W i s c o n s i n F o x

20V a l l e y . Fox Valley is a two-year campus, minutes

21a w a y f r o m m y h o m e i n A p p l e t o n . With good grades

22a n d s t r o n g e x t r a c u r r i c u l a r s t h r o u g h o u t h i g h

23s c h o o l , I w a s a c c e p t e d t o e v e r y U n i v e r s i t y I

24a p p l i e d t o .

408

409
410
411 83
412

1 For me, attending a two-year was far away

2f r o m t h e p r e s t i g i o u s e d u c a t i o n I d r e a m t o f g r o w i n g

3u p . But, being from a middle class family, I

4q u a l i f i e d f o r n o t h i n g b u t l o a n s . To save money I

5a t t e n d e d F o x a n d l i v e d a t h o m e f o r m y f i r s t t w o

6y e a r s i n s c h o o l .

7 I got involved with the student

8a s s o c i a t i o n o n c a m p u s a n d w a s e l e c t e d a s

9C o m m u n i c a t i o n s D i r e c t o r . I thought the skills

10t h a t I w o u l d l e a r n a s C o m m u n i c a t i o n s D i r e c t o r

11w o u l d d i r e c t l y a p p l y t o m y m a r k e t i n g m a j o r . I did

12n o t t h i n k t h e p o s i t i o n w o u l d l e a d m e t o y o u t o d a y .

13 Once I got involved with student

14g o v e r n m e n t o n c a m p u s , I g o t i n v o l v e d w i t h t h e

15U n i t e d C o u n c i l a n d t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s S t u d e n t

16A s s o c i a t i o n w h e r e I f o u n d a p a s s i o n t h a t I n e v e r

17k n e w I h a d . Growing up in a household where a

18c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n t r a n s f o r m e d m y p a r e n t s ’ l i v e s , I

19a l w a y s b e l i e v e d t h a t e d u c a t i o n i s t h e k e y t o

20c r e a t i n g a b e t t e r l i f e f o r o n e s e l f . And yet,

21e d u c a t i o n i s n o t a n o p t i o n f o r s o m a n y p e o p l e

22b e c a u s e o f v a r i o u s b a r r i e r s .

23 The United States has come so far as a

24c o u n t r y , a n d w e p r i d e o u r s e l v e s o n h a v i n g a

413

414
415
416 84
417

1p r o g r e s s i v e s o c i e t y , b u t t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s i s

2f a i l i n g i n o u r g l o b a l e c o n o m i e s r i g h t n o w . I

3c a n n o t h e l p b u t i m a g i n e o u r p o s i t i o n i n t h e g l o b a l

4c l i m a t e y e a r s f r o m n o w w h e n o u r f r i e n d s a n d I a r e

5t h e l e a d e r s o f t h i s c o u n t r y . How can we be a

6c i v i l i z e d n a t i o n , a p r o g r e s s i v e s o c i e t y , a n d a

7g l o b a l l e a d e r i f w e a r e n o t a n e d u c a t e d

8g e n e r a t i o n ?

9 As a nation, we have amazing rights that

10m a n y c o u n t r i e s a d m i r e u s f o r . How can we exercise

11r i g h t s , t h o u g h , i f w e a r e n o t e d u c a t e d ? I truly

12b e l i e v e i n t h e p o w e r o f e d u c a t i o n , a n d I a l s o

13b e l i e v e i n t h e r i g h t o f e v e r y p e r s o n t o h a v e

14a c c e s s t o h a v e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i f t h e y s o d e s i r e .

15T h e o n l y b a r r i e r t o h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i n t h e U n i t e d

16S t a t e s s h o u l d b e l a c k o f w i l l t o a t t e n d c o l l e g e .

17H o w d o w e b r e a k d o w n t h e o t h e r b a r r i e r s ?

18 The first step is to increase grant aid.

19 Second, to make loans more manageable by

20l i m i t i n g l o a n r e p a y m e n t s t o a p e r c e n t a g e o f

21s t u d e n t s ’ i n c o m e , a n d a l s o t o r e a l i z e t h a t

22s t u d e n t s ’ p a r e n t s h a v e l e s s i n c o m e t o d e v o t e t o

23r e p a y m e n t , a n d t h e n a l s o t o l o w e r i n t e r e s t .

24 And finally, just to give more grant money

418

419
420
421 85
422

1t h a n l o a n s s o t h a t s t u d e n t s l i k e m e a n d A l a n d o

2n o t g r a d u a t e w i t h t h o u s a n d s u p o n t h o u s a n d s o f

3d o l l a r s i n s t u d e n t d e b t .

4 As a student and the Vice President of a

5u n i t e d c o u n c i l r e p r e s e n t i n g 1 2 5 , 0 0 0 s t u d e n t s i n

6W i s c o n s i n , I b e g y o u t o m a k e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a

7t o p p r i o r i t y i n o u r c o u n t r y t o e n s u r e a s t r o n g

8f u t u r e f o r g e n e r a t i o n s t o c o m e .

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Michelle Villarreal.

11 MICHELLE VILLARREAL: Hello. I just want

12t o t h a n k y o u f o r c o n v e n i n g t h e s e h e a r i n g s a b o u t

13h o w t o m a k e c o l l e g e m o r e a f f o r d a b l e .

14 DAN MADZELAN: Could you state your name

15a n d a f f i l i a t i o n ?

16 MICHELLE VILLARREAL: Yes. My name is

17M i c h e l l e V i l l a r r e a l . I am with the University of

18W i s c o n s i n S t e v e n s P o i n t , r e p r e s e n t i n g a b o u t 9 , 0 0 0

19s t u d e n t s .

20 My story begins like many other college

21s t u d e n t s . I had the anticipation after graduating

22h i g h s c h o o l a b o u t c o l l e g e - - o r b e f o r e g r a d u a t i n g

23h i g h s c h o o l . I had that feeling of urgency that I

24n e e d e d t o l e a v e h i g h s c h o o l a n d f i n a l l y b e o n m y

423

424
425
426 86
427

1o w n . Of course it was not that easy.

2 After months of deciding and delegating

3w h a t c o l l e g e t o a t t e n d i n t h e F a l l o f 2 0 0 6 , I

4f o u n d t h e c o l l e g e I p r e s e n t l y a t t e n d , U n i v e r s i t y

5o f W i s c o n s i n S t e v e n s P o i n t . I also found myself

6f u n d i n g t h i s a t m y p a r e n t s ’ m e r c y s o t h a t t h e y

7c o u l d p r o v i d e m e o n c e m o r e , b e c a u s e I r e a l i z e d

8q u i c k l y t h a t I w o u l d n o t b e a b l e t o p a y f o r

9c o l l e g e o n m y o w n .

10 In order to take out a loan I would need a

11c o s i g n e r , m y m o t h e r . I searched for a loan and

12f o u n d o n e t h a t w a s s e e m i n g l y r e a s o n a b l e , l a t e r t o

13f i n d o u t t h a t i t w a s a n y t h i n g b u t t h a t . A loan

14f o r $ 2 0 , 0 0 0 w o u l d a c c u m u l a t e i n t e r e s t , a n d I w o u l d

15e n d u p p a y i n g w a y o v e r $ 6 0 , 0 0 0 u p o n g r a d u a t i n g . I

16f o u n d t h a t t h e l o a n c o m p a n i e s m i l k t h e f a c t t h a t

17s t u d e n t s h a v e n o o t h e r o p t i o n t h a n t a k i n g o u t a

18l o a n .

19 It is a win-win situation for the loan

20c o m p a n i e s b e c a u s e o f t h e f a c t t h a t s t u d e n t s h a v e

21n o o t h e r o p t i o n t h a n t a k i n g o u t a l o a n o t h e r t h a n

22s c h o l a r s h i p s . The business of loans make almost a

232 0 0 p e r c e n t p r o f i t o f f o f t h e m o n e y t h a t t h e y a r e

24l o a n i n g b e c a u s e o f t h e m o n e y I w i l l e n d u p p a y i n g

428

429
430
431 87
432

1i n i n t e r e s t . Between the gap of school and

2g r a d u a t i o n , I w o u l d n e e d t o j u g g l e w o r k , s c h o o l ,

3e x t r a c u r r i c u l a r a c t i v i t i e s , a n d m y s o c i a l l i f e , a s

4w e l l a s m y f a m i l y l i f e . That is a vague picture

5o f m o s t c o l l e g e s t u d e n t s .

6 Extracurricular activities are essential

7b e c a u s e , o t h e r t h a n G P A , i t s e t s y o u a p a r t f r o m

8o t h e r c o n t e s t a n t s i n t h i s c u t t h r o a t j o b m a r k e t . I

9f o u n d i t d i s h e a r t e n i n g t h a t n e w a c t i o n s a r e b e i n g

10c o m m i t t e d a g a i n s t t h e f a c t t h a t c o l l e g e t u i t i o n

11h a s g o n e u p s u b s t a n t i a l l y a n d i n t e r e s t r a t e s

12c o n t i n u e t o s k y r o c k e t . Coming from a middle class

13f a m i l y , I c a n o n l y i m a g i n e h o w m u c h m o r e p a i n f u l

14i t i s f o r f a m i l i e s w h o c a n n o t e v e n t h i n k o f t h e

15p o s s i b i l i t y o f c o l l e g e .

16 Many hold this misconception that their

17p r o b l e m s a r e r e a l l y i n t h e i r a c t i o n , b u t i t i s n o t

18t h e c a s e i n t h i s s i t u a t i o n , b e t w e e n s t u d e n t s a n d

19c o l l e g e . The bigger picture here is that this

20p r o b l e m h a s n o t b e e n a c c e p t e d a s a n i s s u e . It has

21b e e n t h r o w n t o s t u d e n t s i n t h i s c o u n t r y a s t h e i r

22o w n p r o b l e m . This problem should be addressed as

23a n i s s u e a n d a s o l u t i o n s h o u l d b e s o u g h t

24d i l i g e n t l y a n d j u s t l y b y t h e i n s t i t u t i o n s t h a t I

433

434
435
436 88
437

1r e l y o n : the education institutions and, most

2i m p o r t a n t , t h e g o v e r n m e n t i n s t i t u t i o n s .

3 How can young adults concern themselves

4w i t h t h e s o c i a l i s s u e s o f t o d a y w h e n t h e i r m a i n

5c o n c e r n a f t e r g r a d u a t i n g c o l l e g e w i l l b e , “ H o w a m

6I g o i n g t o b e a b l e t o r i d m y s e l f o f t h e s h a c k l e s

7o f d e b t ? ”

8 Thank you.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Colleen Kiefer.

11 COLLEEN KIEFER: Hello, my name is Colleen

12K i e f e r , a n d I a m w i t h t h e S t u d e n t G o v e r n m e n t

13A s s o c i a t i o n a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f W i s c o n s i n ,

14S t e v e n s P o i n t .

15 First of all, I want to thank you for

16a r r a n g i n g t h i s e n t i r e e v e n t . I know all of us

17r e a l l y a p p r e c i a t e b e i n g a b l e t o a c t u a l l y t a l k

18a b o u t i s s u e s t h a t a r e a f f e c t i n g u s .

19 Like I said, my name is Colleen Kiefer. I

20a m a n o u t - o f - s t a t e s t u d e n t f r o m P h i l a d e l p h i a

21s t u d y i n g w a t e r w a s t e m a n a g e m e n t a n d s e w a g e s i t e s

22a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f W i s c o n s i n S t e v e n s P o i n t . I

23a m a l s o a S e n a t o r r e p r e s e n t i n g t h e s t u d e n t s o f t h e

24C o l l e g e o f N a t u r a l R e s o u r c e s i n o u r s t u d e n t

438

439
440
441 89
442

1g o v e r n m e n t a s s o c i a t i o n . Because I am an out-of-

2s t a t e s t u d e n t a n d m y t u i t i o n i s e x t r e m e l y h i g h e r

3t h a n t h e a v e r a g e s t u d e n t a t o u r s c h o o l , a n d

4b e c a u s e o f t h i s h i g h c o s t , I h a v e a l r e a d y t a k e n

5o u t a p p r o x i m a t e l y $ 2 0 , 0 0 0 i n p r i v a t e l o a n s a n d

6w i l l g r a d u a t e w i t h a n e s t i m a t e d d e b t o f $ 5 0 , 0 0 0 ,

7w h i c h i s a l o t o f m o n e y .

8 With my major in waste-water management, I

9w i l l b e q u a l i f i e d t o p r o v i d e c r u c i a l s e r v i c e s t o

10t h e c o m m u n i t y . However, these services, while

11p e r s o n a l l y s a t i s f y i n g , a r e n o t e x c e p t i o n a l l y

12r e w a r d i n g i n c o m p e n s a t i o n , m a k i n g i t d i f f i c u l t f o r

13m e t o p a y o f f m y a c c u m u l a t e d s t u d e n t d e b t . While

14m y s i t u a t i o n i s m o r e e x t r a n e o u s f o r m y u n i v e r s i t y ,

15t h e r e a l i t y i s t h a t m y c o n s t i t u e n t s a t t h e

16U n i v e r s i t y o f W i s c o n s i n , S t e v e n s P o i n t a r e

17g r a d u a t i n g w i t h a n a v e r a g e o f a l m o s t $ 1 5 , 0 0 0 i n

18d e b t .

19 At UW Stevens Point, over 90 percent of

20o u r s t u d e n t s a r e f u l l - t i m e , a n d i t i s d i f f i c u l t

21f o r u s t o r e m a i n i n g o o d a c a d e m i c s t a n d i n g w h i l e

22s t r u g g l i n g t o b a l a n c e w o r k , c l a s s w o r k ,

23e x t r a c u r r i c u l a r a c t i v i t i e s t h a t a r e d i r e c t l y

24r e l a t e d t o f i e l d w o r k t h a t t h e y w i l l d o l a t e r i n

443

444
445
446 90
447

1l i f e , l i k e r e s e a r c h o n t h e f i e l d , a s w e l l a s

2i n t e r n s h i p s t h a t a r e v i t a l f o r f i e l d e x p e r i e n c e

3a n d f u t u r e e m p l o y m e n t . Because of the financial

4d e m a n d s p l a c e d o n u s , m a n y o f m y c o n s t i t u e n t s a r e

5f o r c e d t o c h o o s e a m i n i m u m w a g e j o b a t a l o c a l

6g r o c e r y s t o r e o r c o f f e e s h o p , i n s t e a d o f

7i n t e r n s h i p s a n d g o i n g t o t h e s e e x t r a c u r r i c u l a r

8a c t i v i t i e s .

9 This is detrimental to their educational

10p r o g r e s s i o n , a s w e l l a s f o r t h e m a r k e t a b i l i t y o f

11t h e m o n c e t h e y h a v e l e f t a n d g r a d u a t e d . As a

12s p e c i f i c r e p r e s e n t a t i v e o f m y u n i v e r s i t y ’ s C o l l e g e

13o f N a t u r a l R e s o u r c e s , I r e p r e s e n t s t u d e n t s w h o a r e

14g e n e r a l l y e n t e r i n g f i e l d s t h a t d o n o t r e c e i v e h i g h

15i n c o m e s . For example, the average environmental

16p r o t e c t i o n m a j o r w i l l m a k e a p p r o x i m a t e l y $ 2 7 , 0 0 0

17a f t e r g r a d u a t i n g . A resource management major

18w i l l m a k e a p p r o x i m a t e l y $ 2 5 , 0 0 0 a f t e r g r a d u a t i n g .

19 All of these jobs pose as vital services

20f o r t h e s u s t a i n a b i l i t y o f o u r e n v i r o n m e n t a n d o u r

21e c o n o m y . However, the majority of my constituents

22w i l l b e u n a b l e t o p u r c h a s e c a r s , h o u s e s , o r e v e n

23s e c u r e l y s t a r t f a m i l i e s d u e t o t h e f i n a n c i a l

24c o n s t r a i n t s o f h a v i n g t o p a y o f f t h e i r s t u d e n t

448

449
450
451 91
452

1l o a n s . It is because of this that I ask you to

2c o n s i d e r t h e f i v e - p o i n t p l a n t h a t h a s b e e n

3p r e s e n t e d e a r l i e r t o d a y a n d t o h e l p u s r e l i e v e

4h o n o r a b l e g r a d u a t e s o f i m p o s s i b l e d e b t t h a t c a n

5j u s t l o a d t h e m d o w n f o r d e c a d e s .

6 Thank you.

7 MARY MILLER: Break.

8 [Laughter.]

9 DAN MADZELAN: My boss is suggesting that

10w e t a k e a b r e a k .

11 [Laughter.]

12 DAN MADZELAN: So, how about 15 minutes,

13a n d w e w i l l r e c o n v e n e a t 1 1 : 0 0 ?
14

15 DAN MADZELAN: Well, I think we will

16r e c o n v e n e .

17 Before we start, I just want to mention

18t h a t o u t o n t h e t a b l e i n t h e l o b b y t h e r e a r e s o m e

19p a p e r s t h a t p r o v i d e s o m e l o c a l l u n c h e o n

20o p p o r t u n i t i e s - - o r i d e n t i f y , I g u e s s , s o m e l o c a l

21l u n c h e o n o p p o r t u n i t i e s f o r y o u .

22 With that, we will continue with Jeff

23R u n i o n .

24 JEFF RUNION: My name is Jeff Runion. I

453

454
455
456 92
457

1a m a s o p h o m o r e c u r r e n t l y a t t e n d i n g S t . L o u i s

2C o m m u n i t y C o l l e g e a t M i r a m a c k . I am also the

3S t a t e B o a r d C h a i r f o r M i s s o u r i P u b l i c I n t e r e s t

4R e s e a r c h G r o u p .

5 St. Louis Community College is a two-year

6p u b l i c i n s t i t u t i o n a n d a g a t e w a y t o h i g h e r

7e d u c a t i o n f o r m a n y n o n - t r a d i t i o n a l s t u d e n t s . Like

8o t h e r n o n - t r a d i t i o n a l s t u d e n t s a t m y i n s t i t u t i o n ,

9I h a v e t o d e a l n o t o n l y w i t h a h e c t i c c l a s s

10s c h e d u l e , b u t a l s o w o r k i n g t o f i n d e n o u g h l i v i n g

11e x p e n s e s .

12 Right now, I am only able to do this by

13c o m b i n i n g i n c o m e f r o m t h e t h r e e j o b s I w o r k o n

14c a m p u s a n d s u p p l e m e n t i n g t h a t w i t h s t u d e n t l o a n s

15a n d P e l l G r a n t s . At the start of each semester, I

16g e t a k n o t i n m y s t o m a c h a s I w a l k i n t o t h e

17f i n a n c i a l a i d o f f i c e t o t a k e o u t y e t a n o t h e r

18e s s e n t i a l s t u d e n t l o a n . I know, as I use this

19m o n e y t o p a y f o r f o o d , r e n t , c l o t h i n g , a n d b o o k s ,

20t h a t o n e - d a y , a f t e r I a m h a n d e d m y d i p l o m a , I w i l l

21a l s o b e h a n d e d a b i l l , w i t h i n t e r e s t .

22 This debt incurred by students has not

23o n l y f i n a n c i a l r e p e r c u s s i o n s b u t s o c i a l

24i m p l i c a t i o n s , a s w e l l . Student loan debt after

458

459
460
461 93
462

1c o l l e g e k e e p s s o m e s t u d e n t s f r o m p u r s u i n g v i t a l

2p u b l i c s e r v i c e c a r e e r s , a s p u b l i c s e r v i c e c a r e e r s

3d o n o t p a y e n o u g h f o r s t u d e n t s t o p a y o f f t h e i r

4l o a n s a n d m a n a g e t h e i r l i v i n g e x p e n s e s . In

5a d d i t i o n , t h i s d e l a y s m i l e s t o n e e v e n t s l i k e b u y i n g

6a h o m e , s t a r t i n g a s m a l l b u s i n e s s , t h e d e f i n i t i o n

7o f t h e A m e r i c a n D r e a m .

8 Both PIRG and the St. Louis Community

9C o l l e g e S t u d e n t G o v e r n m e n t h a v e w o r k e d t o g e t h e r t o

10h i g h l i g h t s t u d e n t c o n c e r n s a b o u t c o l l e g e

11a f f o r d a b i l i t y . We have conducted research at

12l o c a l , s t a t e , a n d n a t i o n a l l e v e l s t h a t p o i n t s t o

13s t u d e n t l o a n b u r d e n a s t h e p r i m a r y c u l p r i t i n

14c r e a t i n g i m m e d i a t e a n d c o n t i n u i n g h a r d s h i p f o r

15s t u d e n t s a t b o t h t w o - y e a r a n d f o u r - y e a r c o l l e g e s .

16W e h a v e i d e n t i f i e d s e v e r a l p r o b l e m s , s u c h a s

17s t u d e n t l o a n s b e i n g t o o h a r d t o m e e t b y p e o p l e w h o

18w o r k i n t h e p u b l i c s e c t o r , a n d p o l i c i e s f o r

19d e f a u l t e r s d o n o t i n c l u d e l e n i e n c y f o r u n e x p e c t e d

20h a r d s h i p s .

21 In addition, when students default, they

22a r e i n e l i g i b l e f o r h a r d s h i p c l a i m s , l o a n

23f o r g i v e n e s s , a n d F e d e r a l P e l l G r a n t s . This

24s e r i o u s l y c o m p r o m i s e s t h e i r a b i l i t y t o c o m p l e t e a

463

464
465
466 94
467

1d e g r e e a t a f o u r - y e a r s c h o o l a n d o b t a i n g a i n f u l

2e m p l o y m e n t . Fixed non-variable interest rate

3l o a n s a r e t o o i n f l e x i b l e t o c r e a t e , a n d c r e a t e

4e x c e s s m o n e y f o r l o a n p a y m e n t s t h a t c o m m o n l y g e t

5d i v e r t e d a w a y f r o m e d u c a t i o n b u d g e t s .

6 This was the case last winter when the

7U . S . H o u s e a n d S e n a t e d e f l e c t e d b i l l i o n s o f

8d o l l a r s i n i n t e r e s t r a t e s t o r e c o n c i l e t h e b u d g e t .

9S t u d e n t s a r e n o t p r o p e r l y e d u c a t e d a n d c o u n s e l e d

10o n h o w l o a n p r o g r a m s w o r k . This lack of knowledge

11l e a d s t o f e a r o f e n t e r i n g c o l l e g e o r n e g l i g e n t

12b u d g e t i n g . Some students who are undecided in

13t h e i r m a j o r s o r o v e r w h e l m e d b y m o u n t i n g d e b t d r o p

14o u t o f t w o - y e a r s c h o o l s , d e f a u l t i n g o n t h e i r l o a n s

15p r i o r t o r e c e i v i n g a s s o c i a t e ’ s d e g r e e s , l e a v i n g

16t h e m i n d e b t a n d l e s s e n i n g t h e i r p r o s p e c t s f o r

17e m p l o y m e n t .

18 I have some recommendations I would like

19t h i s B o a r d t o c o n s i d e r :

20 One, to increase loan forgiveness. The

21B o a r d n e e d s t o c r e a t e l o a n f o r g i v e n e s s p r o g r a m s

22f o r p e o p l e p u r s u i n g p u b l i c s e r v i c e c a r e e r s s u c h a s

23e d u c a t i o n , n u r s i n g , o r s o c i a l w o r k . These

24v a l u a b l e a n d n e e d e d p u b l i c s e c t o r c a r e e r s w i l l

468

469
470
471 95
472

1a p p e a r m o r e a t t r a c t i v e a n d r e a l i s t i c o p t i o n s t o

2s t u d e n t s .

3 Reform default regulations. Students who

4h a v e p r e v i o u s l y d e f a u l t e d s h o u l d h a v e

5s t r a i g h t f o r w a r d o p p o r t u n i t i e s t o c l a i m h a r d s h i p

6a n d r e t u r n t o d e f e r m e n t . In addition, loan

7p r o g r a m s n e e d t o o f f e r c o m m u n i t y s e r v i c e o r s o m e

8o t h e r r e d e m p t i v e r e c o u r s e t o e n a b l e d e f a u l t i n g

9s t u d e n t s t o r e p a y l o a n s .

10 Reinvest grant aid. Excess money from

11s t u d e n t l o a n p a y m e n t s a n d p r i v a t e l o a n s u b s i d i e s

12n e e d t o b e i n v e s t e d i n n o n - b i n d i n g g r a n t a i d . The

13i n t e r e s t r a t e n e e d s t o b e v a r i a b l e a n d k e p t a t 6 . 8

14p e r c e n t s o s t u d e n t s w i l l b e a b l e t o t a k e a d v a n t a g e

15o f l o w e r i n t e r e s t r a t e s , y e t b e a b l e t o b u d g e t f o r

16a c a p p e d c o n s t a n t r a t e o v e r t h e c o u r s e o f t h e i r

17s c h o o l i n g .

18 Provide more financial education to

19s t u d e n t s . Colleges need to offer regular

20m a n d a t o r y i n f o r m a t i o n a l w o r k s h o p s a n d a d v i s i n g

21s e s s i o n s o n l o a n p r o g r a m s a n d s c o p e o f t u i t i o n

22p a y m e n t o p t i o n s . Loan counseling should be

23c o u p l e d w i t h t h e y e a r l y v i s i t s t h a t a s t u d e n t

24m a k e s t o h i s o r h e r a c a d e m i c a d v i s o r . To this

473

474
475
476 96
477

1e n d , c o m m u n i t y c o l l e g e s n e e d m o r e f e d e r a l f u n d i n g

2f o r f i n a n c i a l a i d a n d a d v i s i n g s t a f f t o f a c i l i t a t e

3l o w e r a d v i s o r t o s t u d e n t r a t i o .

4 Thank you.

5 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

6 DAN MADZELAN: Elizabeth Tieri.

7E l i z a b e t h ?

8 [Pause.]

9 DAN MADZELAN: Brett Thurman?

10 ELIZABETH TIERI: I apologize.

11 I am Elizabeth Tieri from the University

12o f I l l i n o i s a t C h i c a g o .

13 Today, I present to you not one but seven

14s t o r i e s , a g e n e r a t i o n o f c o l l e g e a t t e m p t s ,

15d i s a s t e r s , a n d s u c c e s s e s .

16 As the youngest child of a large family, I

17h a v e n e v e r b e e n a b l e t o m a k e a s i n g l e s t e p i n m y

18l i f e w i t h o u t f i r s t s t u d y i n g s i x o t h e r s b e f o r e m e .

19M y s t e p s t o w a r d s c o l l e g e , t o w a r d s m y c a r e e r ,

20t o w a r d s t h i s t e s t i m o n i a l b e f o r e e a c h o f y o u t o d a y

21c a n o n l y b e m a d e i n r e f l e c t i o n o f m y s i b l i n g s . So

22I o f f e r y o u t h e i r s t o r i e s a s t h e p r e l u d e t o m i n e .

23P a r d o n m e i f I g e t a l i t t l e p e r s o n a l .

24 Donald Jr. was an enthusiastic man who

478

479
480
481 97
482

1q u i c k l y f o u n d h i m s e l f f o o t s t e p s t o f o l l o w o u t s i d e

2o f o u r s t r u g g l i n g m i d d l e c l a s s f a m i l y . He learned

3a t r a d e a n d s t a r t e d a b u s i n e s s w i t h l i t t l e c o n c e r n

4f o r t h o s e o f u s s t i l l w a i t i n g f o r l i f e t o b r e a t h e

5t h r o u g h o u r l u n g s .

6 Colleen left as quickly and as distantly

7t o w o r k f u l l - t i m e i n t h e c i t y w h i l e s t u d y i n g o n e

8c o u r s e a t a t i m e . She graduated as a nurse 15

9y e a r s l a t e r w h i l e I w a s t a k i n g t h e A C T s , b u t

10w i t h o u t a c e n t o f d e b t .

11 Andrea tried a few trade schools, but

12d e c i d e d r a i s i n g h e r t o d d l e r w a s s i m p l e r .

13 Rocco panicked without a determined career

14a n d d e d i c a t e d h i s l i f e t o t h e R e s e r v e s i n o r d e r t o

15a f f o r d a f u t u r e .

16 After Cheri’s divorce, she maxed out

17F e d e r a l l o a n s i n o r d e r t o s u p p o r t h e r c h i l d r e n .

18 My sister Kathleen was found by a

19s c h o l a r s h i p f o r f a m i l i e s l i k e o u r s , b u t t h a t d i d

20n o t i n v o l v e o u t - o f - s t a t e l i v i n g e x p e n s e s , w h i c h

21s h e h a d t o c o v e r w i t h s t u d e n t l o a n s a n d w e e k e n d

22j o b s .

23 And now there is me. At the beginning at

24m y c o l l e g e c a r e e r , I f e a r e d w o r k i n g t o o m u c h a n d

483

484
485
486 98
487

1m o v i n g t o o s l o w l y , t a k i n g t o o m a n y l o a n s a n d n o t

2e n o u g h c o u r s e s . I dabbled in secondary education

3b e c a u s e I w a s t o l d t h e r e w e r e j o b s a n d h a v e

4r e c e n t l y b e e n a d v i s e d t o t r y i n f o r m a t i o n s c i e n c e

5f o r s i m i l a r r e a s o n s .

6 Apparently there is no money in my chosen

7p r o f e s s i o n , a n d m a n y m e n t o r s f i n d t h a t a l a r g e r

8f a c t o r t h a n m y i n t e r e s t s a n d m y t a l e n t s . But in

9t h i s , m y l a s t y e a r o f u n d e r g r a d u a t e s t u d i e s , I c a n

10c l e a r l y s t a t e w h a t I w a n t , r e g a r d l e s s o f t h e

11u n c l e a r p a t h t o w a r d s t h a t g o a l .

12 I do know, however, that it involves

13g r a d u a t e s c h o o l , a s s o m a n y c a r e e r s h a v e s l o w l y

14b e g u n t o i n c l u d e . Unfortunately, this decision is

15a n u n p r e c e d e n t e d o n e i n m y f a m i l y , a n d I f o u n d

16m y s e l f w i t h o u t m y s t a n d a r d c o u n s e l .

17U n f o r t u n a t e l y , a s w e l l , I f i n d m y s e l f c o n s i d e r i n g

18n o t d e p a r t m e n t s , p r o g r a m s , o r p r o f e s s o r s , b u t

19d i s t a n c e s , t u i t i o n , a n d t e a c h i n g a s s i s t a n t s h i p s .

20 These are not quite factors that I

21u n d e r s t a n d d i r e c t l y , b u t m o r e c o m p r e h e n s i b l e a r e

22t h e i r e f f e c t s o n m e . Speaking in numbers, as is

23t o o o f t e n d o n e i n t h e s e c i r c u m s t a n c e s I h a v e o v e r

24$ 3 0 , 0 0 0 i n l o a n s a l r e a d y a n d a m l o o k i n g a t s i m i l a r

488

489
490
491 99
492

1c o s t s e a c h y e a r u n t i l I e a r n m y d o c t o r a t e .

2 Between my siblings and I, we have more

3t h a n $ 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 i n s t u d e n t d e b t , a n u m b e r t h a t c o u l d

4n e a r l y b u y m y m o t h e r a n d f a t h e r a h o m e o f t h e i r

5o w n , b u t t h a t i s a l u x u r y t h a t m y p a r e n t s c o n t i n u e

6t o c o n s i d e r m u c h l e s s p r o f i t a b l e t h a n h i g h e r

7e d u c a t i o n . I am lucky and grateful to have

8p a r e n t s w i t h s u c h s t r o n g p r i o r i t i e s . They have

9i n s t i l l e d i n m e t h e s t r e n g t h t o j u g g l e a f u l l

10c o u r s e l o a d , t w o p a r t - t i m e j o b s , a n d s o m e

11s e l e c t i v e e x t r a c u r r i c u l a r a c t i v i t i e s .

12 I feel I have succeeded, but I am quite

13a w a r e t h a t m a n y o t h e r s t u d e n t s a r e n o t s o s t r o n g .

14M a n y s t u d e n t s f a l l b e h i n d i n t h e i r s t u d i e s , s k i p

15d i n n e r s o n a r e g u l a r b a s i s , a n d l i t e r a l l y c o l l a p s e

16b e n e a t h t h e w e i g h t o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n . I,

17m y s e l f , h a v e b e g u n t o n o t i c e m y w e a k n e s s e s . Just

18y e s t e r d a y , I f e l t f o r c e d t o s t e p d o w n f r o m a n

19e x e c u t i v e p o s i t i o n i n o u r u n d e r g r a d u a t e s t u d e n t

20g o v e r n m e n t b e c a u s e I a m n o t a b l e t o s a c r i f i c e t h e

21l i t t l e t i m e I h a v e b e t w e e n c l a s s e s , m y l i b r a r y

22j o b , a n d m y w a i t r e s s i n g j o b f o r t h e s t u d e n t b o d y .

23I m u s t f o c u s t h a t t i m e o n h o m e w o r k , r e a d i n g , a n d

24m y t h e s i s a s a d o u b l e m a j o r i n h i s t o r y a n d F r e n c h

493

494
495
496 100
497

1l a n g u a g e s t u d i e s .

2 This has been a realization for me. I can

3t e l l m y s e l f t h a t i t i s m y b e s t o p t i o n f o r t h e

4p r e s e n t . I cannot forget, however, that this

5s e l e c t i o n w o u l d n o t h a v e b e e n n e c e s s a r y i f j u s t

6o n e p a r t - t i m e j o b w o u l d s u f f i c e . And I cannot

7h e l p b u t b e j e a l o u s o f t h o s e w h o s e h i g h e r

8e d u c a t i o n i s n o t t a i n t e d b y t h e s e s e l e c t i o n s , a s

9f e w a s s u c h s t u d e n t s m a y b e .

10 In preparation for standing before you

11t o d a y , I f o u n d t h a t i n m y F r e n c h L i t e r a t u r e c l a s s

12o f 1 5 s t u d e n t s , 1 0 o f u s f e l t f o r c e d - - n o t j u s t

13c o m p e l l e d b u t f o r c e d - - t o w o r k m o r e t h a n p a r t - t i m e

14t o s u p p o r t o u r e d u c a t i o n s . To reiterate the

15n u m b e r s , t h a t i s t w o - t h i r d s o f m y c o l l e a g u e s .

16 I stand here today to compel you to

17c o n s i d e r m y s t o r i e s a n d t h o s e I h a v e b r o u g h t t o

18y o u w h i l e y o u l e g i s l a t e c h a n g e s t h a t s h o u l d m a k e

19h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n m o r e u n i v e r s a l l y a v a i l a b l e a n d

20m o r e p o s i t i v e l y e x p e r i e n c e d b y f u t u r e s t u d e n t s .

21 Thank you very much.

22 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

23 DAN MADZELAN: Brett Thurman.

24 MATTHEW GUIDRY: Hello. Brett Thurman

498

499
500
501 101
502

1w i l l n o t b e a b l e t o m a k e i t i n t o d a y . He is not

2y e t h e r e . My name is Matthew Guidry. I am taking

3h i s s p o t .

4 I am with the University of Wisconsin

5S t e v e n s P o i n t , a n d I a m r e p r e s e n t i n g b o t h a

6s t u d e n t o r g a n i z a t i o n , W i s P I R G , W i s c o n s i n P u b l i c

7I n t e r e s t R e s e a r c h G r o u p . I am the Vice President

8o f t h e S t a t e B o a r d a n d a l s o t h e l o c a l c a m p u s

9o r g a n i z e r t h e r e . I was also a student there.

10A l o n g w i t h t h a t , I a m a l s o r e p r e s e n t i n g t h e

11C o l l e g e o f L e t t e r s a n d S c i e n c e a s a S t u d e n t

12G o v e r n m e n t S e n a t o r . So there are a lot of people

13i n t h e r e , b u t t o a d d o n e m o r e s t a c k t o i t , m e a n d

14t h e f e l l o w W i s P I R G c o m p a t r i o t s a n d s t u d e n t s w e n t

15o u t a n d c o l l e c t e d p o s t c a r d s o f o t h e r s t u d e n t s t h a t

16w e r e a l s o i n t o t h i s a n d r e a l l y w a n t e d t o b e

17r e p r e s e n t e d b u t c o u l d n o t m a k e i t b e c a u s e o f

18c l a s s e s o r o t h e r r e a s o n s . Also, getting 260 other

19s t u d e n t s h e r e w o u l d b e a l i t t l e b i t h a r d e r . But

20t h e y c a m e i n s p i r i t , a n d I w i l l h a v e p o s t c a r d s f o r

21y o u l a t e r f r o m a l l o f t h e m .

22 On to what I was actually looking to say

23t o y o u g u y s - - b e y o n d t h a t I r e a l l y w a n t e d t o h i t o n

24t h r e e m a i n p o i n t s , t h e s y s t e m . And from the

503

504
505
506 102
507

1s y s t e m w a s b a s i c a l l y f r o m s t a r t i n g f r o m h i g h

2s c h o o l , m y o w n p e r s o n a l f e a r s a n d f e a r s o f m a n y ,

3m a n y c o m p a t r i o t s t h a t I h a v e h a d g o i n g i n t o t h i s .

4T h e y w e r e s c a r e d t o g o i n t o c o l l e g e a n d , o n c e t h e y

5m a d e i t i n t o c o l l e g e , w h e n i t r e a l l y h i t t h e m w a s

6t h a t f i r s t f r e s h m a n s e m e s t e r w h e r e t h e y w o u l d g e t

7s c a r e d . They would see that giant bill come in

8a n d h a v e n o i d e a h o w t o p a y f o r i t , a n d t h a t w o u l d

9s c a r e s o m e o f t h e m a w a y . Some of them would work

10l i k e c r a z y , w o r k 4 0 - 6 0 h o u r s , w h i c h i s r i d i c u l o u s ,

11w h i c h e v e r y h i g h s c h o o l c o u n s e l o r a n d e v e r y

12c o l l e g e a d v i s o r t h a t I h a v e t a l k e d t o h a s s a i d ,

13“ D o n o t w o r k m o r e t h a n 2 0 h o u r s , o r y o u a r e

14h u r t i n g y o u r s e l f b y h u r t i n g y o u r h o m e w o r k t i m e ,

15a n d h u r t i n g y o u r c o l l e g e t i m e , a n d h u r t i n g y o u r

16e x t r a c u r r i c u l a r t i m e - - t o b a s i c a l l y l o s e o u t o n

17t h a t c o l l e g e e x p e r i e n c e o f d i v e r s i t y a n d

18e d u c a t i o n . ”

19 But with that, it is beyond fear of just

20g e t t i n g t h a t l o a n . It is beyond fear of not

21k n o w i n g h o w t o d o i t . So that is one of those

22q u e s t i o n s t h a t I w o u l d p r o b a b l y p o s e t o y o u a n d

23y o u a r e p r o b a b l y l o o k i n g a t r i g h t n o w , i s h o w t o

24m a k e t h a t a p p l i c a t i o n p r o c e s s e a s i e r a n d s m o o t h e r

508

509
510
511 103
512

1f r o m n o t j u s t c o l l e g e f r e s h m e n b u t h i g h s c h o o l

2s e n i o r s . I am hoping to see you hit it earlier

3a n d h a r d e r . And, as Jeff had mentioned earlier

4f r o m M i s s o u r i , h a v e t h a t a s a n a d v i s o r y p o i n t

5w h e r e e v e r y y e a r , e v e r y s e m e s t e r , w h e n y o u g o t o

6g e t a d v i s e d f o r w h a t c l a s s e s y o u a r e t a k i n g , b e

7a d v i s e d o n y o u r l o a n s s o y o u c a n s t a y u p t o d a t e

8o n t h a t , b e c a u s e t h e s e c o l l e g e k i d s , o f c o u r s e ,

9w i t h t h e i r b u s y s c h e d u l e s a n d t h e i r h e c t i c l i v e s ,

10h a v e m a n y t h i n g s o n t h e i r p l a t e t h a t - - t h e y f e e l

11o v e r b u r d e n e d . That is probably from inexperience

12f r o m i t o r l i t e r a l l y b e i n g o v e r b u r d e n e d f r o m b e i n g

13o v e r w o r k e d , a l o n g w i t h m a n y o t h e r t h i n g s

14c o n t r i b u t i n g t o t h a t .

15 So taking it off their plate for some

16r e a s o n a n d g e t t i n g i t b a c k o n t h e p l a t e s e e m s t o

17b e v e r y , v e r y i m p o r t a n t . It is getting those kids

18t o l o o k a t i t c o n s i s t e n t l y o v e r t i m e . I think

19t h a t w o u l d a t l e a s t g e t r i d o f t h a t i n i t i a l f e a r .

20 Beyond that, add to the existing

21c o u n s e l i n g o v e r a n d o v e r a n d o v e r a g a i n b e c a u s e o f

22t h a t l o n g - t e r m d e b t t h a t i s c o m i n g i n t h e r e . One

23o f m y f r i e n d s h a d m e n t i o n e d e a r l i e r t h a t s h e h a d

24t o o k o u t $ 1 5 , 0 0 0 i n l o a n s s o f a r , a n d t h a t i s

513

514
515
516 104
517

1g o i n g t o b o o s t h e r u p t o a b o u t $ 6 0 , 0 0 0 t o p a y f o r

2t h a t i n t h e e n d . Luckily, she got rid of that

3s p e c i f i c l o a n b e c a u s e i t j u s t d i d n o t s e e m

4e c o n o m i c a l a n d v i a b l e t o w h a t s h e w a n t e d t o d o a s

5a n o u t - o f - s t a t e s t u d e n t .

6 So, getting stuff like that, even

7t h o u g h - - t h e r i d i c u l o u s n e s s o u t o f i t , w h i c h i s ,

8b a s i c a l l y , m a y b e t h e l o a n c o m p a n i e s t a k i n g

9a d v a n t a g e o f c e r t a i n s t u d e n t s , n o n - t r a d i t i o n a l

10s t u d e n t s , o u t - o f - s t a t e s t u d e n t s , f i n d i n g a b e t t e r

11w a y t o m a k e i t a s m o o t h e r t r a n s i t i o n f o r s t u d e n t s

12t h a t r e a l l y w a n t t o g o t o t h a t n u m b e r o n e c o l l e g e

13t h a t t h e y l i k e . For instance, Stevens Point is

14h u g e i n n a t u r a l r e s o u r c e s . We just had Governor

15D o y l e u p t h e r e , a n d h e j u s t p l e d g e d t o g e t u s i n

16f i v e y e a r s - - w e l l , i n 2 0 1 2 , i n h i s m i n d - - t o g e t u s

17t o 1 0 0 p e r c e n t r e n e w a b l e e n e r g y a n d o f f t h e g r i d .

18 Now, to do that, we have to keep our

19n a t u r a l r e s o u r c e p e o p l e , o u r p h y s i c s p e o p l e , a n d

20a l l o u r p e o p l e w i t h i n t h a t c o l l e g e m o t i v a t e d a n d

21m o v i n g . And to continue doing that, it seems to

22b e a l o t m o r e e f f e c t i v e t o g e t t h e m o n e y w o r r i e s

23o u t o f t h e w a y a n d g e t t h a t e c o n o m i c a l s t a b i l i t y

24t o g i v e t h e m t h e a b i l i t y t o g e t i n t h e r e a n d d o

518

519
520
521 105
522

1t h e i r s t u d e n t o r g a n i z a t i o n a l s t u f f t h a t w i l l c o m e

2f r o m t h e i d e a s t o h e l p u s w i t h t h a t f u t u r e .

3 Along with getting everyone going like

4t h a t , I w o r k i n t h e I T d e p a r t m e n t a l o t . So I

5h a v e a l o t o f e x p e r i e n c e r i g h t i n t h e r e , a n d w h a t

6I g a i n e d f r o m t h a t e x p e r i e n c e , b e y o n d j u s t t h e

7l i t t l e c o m p u t e r k n o w l e d g e , i s w o r k i n g w i t h a l o t

8o f t h e p e o p l e . Those people I work a lot with,

9S c h o o l o f E d u c a t i o n p e o p l e , t h e y c o m e i n

10c o n s t a n t l y a n d t h e y a r e a l w a y s w o r k i n g o n t h e s e

11n e w W e b s i t e s . But what I hear from them over and

12o v e r a g a i n i s n o t t h e f a c t t h a t t h e y h a v e t o w o r k

13o n t h e s e W e b s i t e s t h a t t h e y h a v e v e r y l i t t l e

14t r a i n i n g , i s t h a t t h e f a c t t h a t t h e y h a v e e n o r m o u s

15s t u d e n t d e b t c o m i n g i n a n d , a s t e a c h e r s , t h e y

16c a n n o t r e a l l y a f f o r d t o h a v e a f a m i l y , o r t h e y

17c a n n o t r e a l l y a f f o r d t o l o o k t o b u y a c a r s o o n .

18T h e y a r e i n v e s t i n g i n t h a t b i k e , a n d t h e y r e a l l y

19l i k e t h a t b i k e , b u t i t i s k i n d o f h a r d t o c o m m u t e

20w i t h a b i k e i f y o u a r e , s a y , c o m i n g f r o m C h i c a g o

21t o K i n o s h i a o r R a c i n e t o M i l w a u k e e . It is a

22l i t t l e b i t t o p e d a l .

23 It is economic hardships like that that

24j u s t m a k e m e c r i n g e a l i t t l e b i t a n d s a y , “ W e n e e d

523

524
525
526 106
527

1t o g e t o u t t h e r e a n d h e l p o u r p u b l i c s e r v i c e

2f i g u r e s , h e l p o u r e d u c a t i o n a l p e o p l e ” - - w h i c h y o u

3g u y s , I k n o w y o u a r e r i g h t t h e r e w i t h u s a n d y o u

4a r e p r o b a b l y , l i k e , s a y i n g , “ Y e s . That is what we

5a r e h e r e f o r a n d t h a t i s w h a t w e w a n t t o d o . ”

6K e e p g o i n g w i t h i t , b e c a u s e i t h a s g o t t o h a v e a n

7a n s w e r o u t t h e r e .

8 I think we have thrown some answers out

9t h e r e , h o p e f u l l y , t o d a y w i t h t h e f i v e - p o i n t p l a n

10a n d p u t t i n g s o m e c a p s o n t h e i n t e r e s t s ’ r a t e s t o

11p r e v e n t s o m e o f t h a t r i d i c u l o u s o v e r s p e n d i n g a n d

12m a y b e o v e r - p r o f i t i z i n g f r o m i t . More importantly,

13l o o k i n g b e y o n d t h a t , i s t h o s e w i t h e x c e p t i o n a l

14p r o b l e m s .

15 I had a friend it was two years ago, now.

16H e h a d a s l i g h t a c c i d e n t a n d i s n o w p a r a l y z e d f r o m

17t h e c h e s t d o w n . He is still going to school. He

18i s s t i l l k i c k i n g r e a l l y h a r d , b u t h e i s t h i n k i n g a

19l o t m o r e a b o u t s t u d e n t d e b t b e c a u s e t h e d i r e c t i o n

20h e w a s o r i g i n a l l y g o i n g w a s i n n a t u r a l r e s o u r c e s

21a n d , k i n d o f , a g a m e w a r d e n k i n d o f t h i n g , w h i c h

22h e i s n o w u n a b l e t o d o . So now he is changing

23d i r e c t i o n s , “ e l a p s i n g ” s o m e m o r e s t u d e n t d e b t w i t h

24s o m e m o r e l o a n s . He is still worried about how he

528

529
530
531 107
532

1i s s t i l l g o i n g t o p a y f o r i t , i f h e i s g o i n g t o b e

2a b l e t o p a y f o r i t , i f h e i s g o i n g t o b e a b l e t o

3w o r k f o r t h a t .

4 Really, that was kind of an eye opener to

5m e o n h o w h a r d t h i s p r o c e s s r e a l l y w a s , b e c a u s e h e

6i s u n a b l e t o s e e w h a t d i r e c t i o n h e i s g o i n g , o r

7h o w m u c h l o a n d e b t h e i s g o i n g t o b e i n a t t h a t

8p o i n t f o u r y e a r s f r o m n o w , n o w t h a t h e h a s t o

9r e s t r u c t u r e h i s m a j o r t o c o m p e n s a t e f o r t h a t

10a c c i d e n t .

11 So I think that falls into some economic

12h a r d s h i p a n d e c o n o m i c f o r b e a r a n c e i s s u e s t h a t

13s h o u l d r e a l l y g e t t o u c h e d o n a n d f o r t h e h a r d s h i p

14e s p e c i a l l y w i t h s p e c i f i c i n j u r i e s o f t h a t n a t u r e

15w o u l d b e s o m e t h i n g t h a t w o u l d b e r e a l l y t o u c h i n g - -

16I t h i n k y o u g u y s w o u l d k n o w h o w t o h a n d l e t h a t ,

17b u t s o m e t h i n g I r e a l l y w a n t e d t o p o i n t o u t .

18 And getting beyond that, I would also like

19t o t h a n k y o u f o r h a v i n g t h i s a n d m a k i n g t h i s h e r e

20t o d a y . I would like to say that we have several

21s t u d e n t s f r o m U W C a t t h i s p o i n t , a s y o u h a v e

22p r o b a b l y h e a r d f r o m , n o w . They have come about

23f i v e h o u r s , a n d w e l e f t a b o u t 9 : 0 0 l a s t n i g h t . So

24w e m a y b e a l i t t l e w i r e d a n d a l i t t l e t i r e d , b u t

533

534
535
536 108
537

1w e a r e r e a l l y h a p p y t o b e h e r e , a n d w e a r e r e a l l y

2h a p p y t h a t y o u g u y s a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t t h i s a n d

3g e t t i n g t h i s i s s u e o n t h e t a b l e t o g e t i t f i x e d

4o u t t h e r e .

5 So thank you, and hopefully there will be

6s o m e m o r e c o m m e n t s a n d s o l u t i o n s f o r y o u g u y s .

7 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you, and it has been

8a n i c e d a y . It will continue to be so, I am sure.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Edgar Staren.

10 [Pause.]

11 DAN MADZELAN: Edgar Staren?

12 DAN MADZELAN: Dan Mann.

13 DAN MANN: Good morning. Dan, Carney and

14J e f f , w e a r e r e a l l y h a p p y t o h a v e y o u i n C h i c a g o ,

15h e r e i n o u r h o m e s t a t e .

16 My name is Dan Mann. I am the Director of

17F i n a n c i a l A i d a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f I l l i n o i s a t

18U r b a n a C h a m p a i g n .

19 My colleague, Susan Fisher from the

20U n i v e r s i t y o f W i s c o n s i n a t M a d i s o n i s h e r e . We

21a r e h e r e p r e s e n t i n g c o m m e n t s o n b e h a l f o f t h e

22F i n a n c i a l A i d D i r e c t o r s o f t h e B i g T e n

23U n i v e r s i t i e s .

24 Our Big Ten Universities enroll more than

538

539
540
541 109
542

15 8 9 , 0 0 0 s t u d e n t s . This past year, we administered

2m o r e t h a n $ 2 . 3 b i l l i o n i n F e d e r a l f i n a n c i a l a i d

3f u n d s . We have been very pleased to have the new

4A C G a n d S M A R T g r a n t s . We are very happy that,

5a f t e r m a n y y e a r s , w e h a v e h a d n e w g r a n t m o n e y

6a v a i l a b l e t o o u r s t u d e n t s . I do not think any of

7u s w o u l d h a v e d e s i g n e d t h e s e p r o g r a m s t h i s w a y i f

8w e w e r e t o l d t h a t w e h a d n e w m o n e y , b u t w e a r e

9n o n e t h e l e s s t r y i n g t o m a k e t h e m h a p p e n a n d w o r k .

10S o o n e o f o u r c o n c e r n s i s t r y i n g t o m a k e s u r e t h a t

11w e a r e a b l e t o a d m i n i s t e r t h e s e p r o g r a m s i n a n

12e f f i c i e n t w a y f o r o u r s t u d e n t s .

13 In terms of our comments today, we are

14a c t u a l l y c o m i n g t o y o u w i t h 1 5 v e r y s p e c i f i c

15r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s . In the spirit of trying to keep

16w i t h i n o u r f i v e - m i n u t e t i m e r a n g e , I a m n o t g o i n g

17t o r e a d a l l f o u r p a g e s o f t h i s , b u t I a m g o i n g t o

18t r y t o s u m m a r i z e t h e 1 5 r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s .

19 Our first six comments are specific to the

20A C G a n d S M A R T g r a n t s . Recommendation number one

21i s t h a t A C G a n d S M A R T g r a n t s s h o u l d n o t o n l y b e

22a v a i l a b l e t o U . S . s t u d e n t s , b u t t h e y s h o u l d a l s o

23b e a v a i l a b l e t o e l i g i b l e n o n - c i t i z e n s , j u s t a s

24o t h e r T i t l e I V a i d p r o g r a m s a r e a v a i l a b l e t o t h e s e

543

544
545
546 110
547

1s t u d e n t s .

2 Our second recommendation is that

3c o n t i n u e d e l i g i b i l i t y f o r A C G a n d S M A R T s h o u l d b e

4b a s e d o n t h e i n s t i t u t i o n ’ s e s t a b l i s h e d

5s a t i s f a c t o r y a c a d e m i c p r o g r e s s p o l i c i e s , j u s t a s

6i t i s d e t e r m i n e d f o r o t h e r T i t l e I V p r o g r a m s , a n d

7n o t o n a p r i o r s e m e s t e r g r a d e p o i n t a v e r a g e .

8 Recommendation number three, initial

9e l i g i b i l i t y f o r A C G a n d S M A R T s h o u l d b e d e t e r m i n e d

10a n y t i m e d u r i n g t h e a c a d e m i c y e a r f o r s t u d e n t s w h o

11m a y h a v e n o t q u a l i f i e d f o r i t a t t h e b e g i n n i n g o f

12t h e f a l l s e m e s t e r . However, a student should

13r e t a i n e l i g i b i l i t y f o r t h e e n t i r e y e a r , u n l e s s

14s a t i s f a c t o r y p r o g r e s s r e q u i r e m e n t s a r e n o t m e t .

15 Recommendation number four, if AP/IP

16c r e d i t s e x c e e d s t h e g r a d e l e v e l o n e s t a t u s a s

17d e f i n e d b y t h e i n s t i t u t i o n s w h e n t h e s t u d e n t

18b e g i n s i n i t i a l e n r o l l m e n t a t t h e i n s t i t u t i o n , t h e

19s t u d e n t s h o u l d b e e l i g i b l e f o r y e a r - t w o A C G

20w i t h o u t e s t a b l i s h i n g a g r a d e p o i n t a v e r a g e o f 3 . 0

21o r h i g h e r a t t h e i n s t i t u t i o n .

22 Recommendation number five, grade level

23p r o g r e s s i o n f o r d e t e r m i n i n g e l i g i b i l i t y f o r A C G

24a n d S M A R T , s h o u l d f o l l o w t h e r u l e s c u r r e n t l y i n

548

549
550
551 111
552

1p l a c e f o r t h e S t a f f o r d D i r e c t L o a n a n n u a l l o a n

2l i m i t s .

3 Recommendation number six, the cumulative

4g r a d e p o i n t a v e r a g e o f t h e p r i o r i n s t i t u t i o n s

5s h o u l d b e u s e d t o d e t e r m i n e e l i g i b i l i t y f o r

6t r a n s f e r s t u d e n t s i n r e g a r d s t o t h e r e q u i r e d 3 . 0

7g r a d e p o i n t a v e r a g e .

8 We also have two recommendations on other

9p r o v i s i o n s . The first is the provision that calls

10f o r t h e e l i m i n a t i o n o f b u s i n e s s a s s e t s f o r a l l

11s m a l l b u s i n e s s d e f i n e d a s t h o s e w i t h f e w e r t h a n

121 0 0 e m p l o y e e s i s p a t e n t l y u n f a i r . In our

13e x p e r i e n c e , t h e a s s e t p r o t e c t i o n a l l o w a n c e

14c u r r e n t l y i n t h e F e d e r a l m e t h o d o l o g y p r o t e c t s a

15r e a s o n a b l e a m o u n t o f s u c h a s s e t s a n d e v a l u a t e s a l l

16f a m i l y - o w n e d b u s i n e s s e s e q u i t a b l y .

17 Our other recommendation is we support the

18r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s p u t f o r t h b y t h e p r o j e c t o n

19s t u d e n t d e b t . The five practical reforms proposed

20b y t h i s g r o u p w e i g h s t h e b u r d e n o f s t u d e n t d e b t

21f o r o u r s t u d e n t s .

22 We have three other comments in general.

23O n e i s w e s u p p o r t t h e c o n t i n u a t i o n o f t h e c u r r e n t

24e x p e r i m e n t a l s i t e s i n i t i a t i v e s , a n d w e w i l l w o r k

553

554
555
556 112
557

1t o w a r d s c h a n g i n g t h e s t a t u t e s t h a t t h e s e

2e x p e r i m e n t s h a v e p r o v e n t o b e u n n e c e s s a r y .

3 A second general recommendation, we

4s u p p o r t c o n t i n u e d e f f o r t s t o i n c r e a s e t h e a n n u a l

5l o a n l i m i t s f o r u n d e r g r a d u a t e s a t t h e f r e s h m a n a n d

6s o p h o m o r e l e v e l s .

7 And the third general comment, we support

8i n c r e a s i n g t h e a g g r e g a t e l o a n l i m i t s f o r a l l g r a d e

9l e v e l s .

10 We also have four very specific

11r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s a n d c o m m e n t s r e g a r d i n g t h e

12S p e l l i n g s C o m m i s s i o n ’ s r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s . First, we

13a g r e e t h a t t h e a m o u n t o f f u n d i n g c u r r e n t l y f o u n d

14i n a l l s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m s i s i n s u f f i c i e n t t o

15m e e t t h e n e e d s o f o u r s t u d e n t s .

16 Second, we are proponents of any means to

17i d e n t i f y l o w - i n c o m e s t u d e n t s w i t h a c a d e m i c p r o m i s e

18w h o w o u l d b e n e f i t f r o m e a r l y i n t e r v e n t i o n

19p r o g r a m s .

20 Number three, we support increasing the

21f u n d i n g i n F e d e r a l g r a n t p r o g r a m s t o r e s t o r e t h e

22p u r c h a s i n g p o w e r o f t h e P e l l a n d F S E O G p r o g r a m s .

23 And finally, we have participated in many

24e x p e r i m e n t a l s i t e i n i t i a t i v e s t h a t h a v e

558

559
560
561 113
562

1d e m o n s t r a t e d t h a t e l i m i n a t i n g s o m e r e g u l a t i o n s

2h a v e n o d e t r i m e n t a l e f f e c t o n t h e i n t e g r i t y o f o u r

3s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m s . As we are talking about

4s i m p l i f i c a t i o n , w e t h i n k w e o u g h t t o b e l o o k i n g a t

5s i m p l i f y i n g t h e c u r r e n t r u l e s t h a t a r e t h e r e ,

6b e c a u s e w e h a v e p r o v e n t h a t s o m e o f t h o s e r u l e s

7a r e n o t n e c e s s a r y .

8 Thank you.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Eric Weems.

11 ERIC WEEMS: Good morning. I am Eric

12W e e m s . I am the Director of Financial Aid here at

13L o y o l a U n i v e r s i t y o f C h i c a g o .

14 I would like to thank you, as well as all

15o f t h e p a r t i c i p a n t s f o r t a k i n g t h e t i m e t o v i s i t

16o u r l o v e l y c a m p u s h e r e a t t h e W a t e r T o w e r c a m p u s .

17F o r t u n a t e l y , w e h a v e g o t t e n m a n y o f t h e

18c o n s t r u c t i o n c r a n e s m o v e d o u t o f t h e w a y f o r a n e w

19r e s i d e n c e h a l l a n d s o m e o f t h e o t h e r c o n s t r u c t i o n

20g o i n g o n i n t h i s c a m p u s .

21 I would like to applaud the Department of

22E d u c a t i o n f o r g i v i n g u s t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o o f f e r

23o u r o b s e r v a t i o n s a s a h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n c o m m u n i t y ,

24a n d s p e c i f i c a l l y a s a s t u d e n t a i d c o m m u n i t y t o b e

563

564
565
566 114
567

1a b l e t o w o r k t o w a r d c o l l a b o r a t i v e e f f o r t s t o

2i m p r o v e a l l o f t h e F e d e r a l s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m s .

3S o t h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h , a g a i n , f o r b e i n g h e r e .

4 I would also like to thank Dan Mann, who

5s u m m a r i z e d m a n y o f t h e p o i n t s t h a t I h a d i n m i n d

6t o s a y t o d a y . So I will, at the risk of time--I

7w i l l n o t g o b a c k a n d t r y t o e x p a n d o n h o w h e

8e l o q u e n t l y t o u c h e d o n t h e s e p o i n t s .

9 I would like to make just a few general

10o b s e r v a t i o n s a b o u t t h e A c a d e m i c C o m p e t i t i v e n e s s

11G r a n t a n d t h e N a t i o n a l S M A R T G r a n t . Clearly, as

12D a n n o t e d , w e a r e t h r i l l e d t o h a v e o p p o r t u n i t i e s

13t o e x t e n d n e e d - b a s e d g r a n t a s s i s t a n c e t o s t u d e n t s .

14I t h i n k a l l o f u s i n f i n a n c i a l a i d o f f i c e s

15r e c o g n i z e t h e n e e d f o r g r e a t e r a m o u n t s o f n e e d -

16b a s e d a s s i s t a n c e a t t h e f e d e r a l l e v e l a n d a t a l l

17l e v e l s f o r s t u d e n t s , a n d t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o u s e

18g r a n t s t o b e a b l e t o e x t e n d t h a t i s s o m e t h i n g t h a t

19w e w e r e v e r y p l e a s e d f o r .

20 With that said, and recognizing, as your

21o p e n i n g r e m a r k s n o t e d , t h a t t h e i n t e r i m

22r e g u l a t i o n s a n d t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o s t a r t t h i s

23p r o g r a m w e r e d o n e q u i c k l y , I w o u l d l i k e t o m a k e

24t h e g e n e r a l c o m m e n t t o m a n y o f t h e p o i n t s t h a t D a n

568

569
570
571 115
572

1m a d e t h a t , t h r o u g h t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g , y o u

2c o n s i d e r m a k i n g t h e S M A R T a n d t h e A c a d e m i c

3C o m p e t i t i v e n e s s G r a n t f o l l o w a l o n g t h e e x i s t i n g

4p r o v i s i o n s f o r m a n y o f t h e a l r e a d y e x i s t i n g

5F e d e r a l s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m s , n o t t h e l e a s t o f

6w h i c h t h e f a c t t h a t t h e r e c i p i e n t s o f t h e s e t w o

7g r a n t p r o g r a m s a r e r e c i p i e n t s o f t h e F e d e r a l P e l l

8G r a n t . We want to be able to be consistent with

9r e s p e c t t o t h i n g s l i k e m a k i n g i n e l i g i b l e n o n -

10c i t i z e n s b e i n g a b l e t o p a r t i c i p a t e i n t h i s g r a n t ,

11a n d , a s w e l l , f o l l o w i n g t h e a c a d e m i c y e a r

12d e f i n i t i o n .

13 I think one of the things that we are

14a l w a y s i n t u n e t o a t t h e c a m p u s i s t r y i n g t o m a k e

15t h i n g s a s s i m p l e a s p o s s i b l e f o r s t u d e n t s , t r y i n g

16t o e l i m i n a t e c o n f u s i o n . Having two academic year

17d e f i n i t i o n s , o n e f o r t h e s t u d e n t l o a n p r o g r a m s ,

18w h i c h - - s t u d e n t l o a n p r o g r a m s , b y t h e w a y ,

19f o l l o w i n g t h e d e f i n i t i o n w e w o u l d b e u s i n g a t t h e

20u n i v e r s i t y f o r a c a d e m i c l e v e l p r o g r e s s i o n . Being

21a b l e t o b e c o n s i s t e n t f o r s t u d e n t s i s s o m e t h i n g I

22t h i n k w e s h o u l d a l l s t r i v e f o r .

23 With respect to the student loan programs,

24I o b v i o u s l y w o u l d l i k e t o c h i m e i n , e v e n t h o u g h i t

573

574
575
576 116
577

1m a y n o t b e s o m e t h i n g a s p a r t o f t h e n e g o t i a t e d

2r u l e m a k i n g , t o c o n t i n u e t o t h i n k a b o u t

3o p p o r t u n i t i e s t o i n c r e a s e t h o s e a n n u a l l o a n

4a m o u n t s . While I would not want that to stand in

5t h e w a y o f e x i s t i n g g r a n t p r o g r a m e x p a n s i o n , t h e

6f a c t o f t h e m a t t e r i s m o r e a n d m o r e s t u d e n t s ,

7p a r t i c u l a r l y f i r s t a n d s e c o n d y e a r s t u d e n t s , a r e

8i n n e e d o f a d d i t i o n a l l o a n a s s i s t a n c e .

9U n f o r t u n a t e l y , w h e n t h e F e d e r a l s t u d e n t a i d

10p r o g r a m s , F e d e r a l S t a f f o r d L o a n , a s a n e x a m p l e , i s

11n o t e n o u g h t o c o v e r f u n d s n e e d e d , t h e s t u d e n t s a r e

12g o i n g t o b e u s i n g h i g h e r p r i c e d l o a n s t h r o u g h

13p r i v a t e o r o n e o f t h o s e a l t e r n a t i v e s t u d e n t l o a n s .

14 So I think the opportunity to expand the

15F e d e r a l S t a f f o r d L o a n p r o g r a m i s n o t s o m u c h a n

16o p p o r t u n i t y t o p u t o n m o r e d e b t b u t r a t h e r t o

17p r o v i d e o p p o r t u n i t i e s f o r s m a r t e r b o r r o w i n g . And

18t o t h a t e n d , I w o u l d a l s o l i k e t o o f f e r t h i s ,

19a g a i n , t h e s u g g e s t i o n t h a t w e c o n s i d e r e x p a n d i n g

20f o r t h e G r a d u a t e P L U S l o a n , t h e o p p o r t u n i t y f o r

21l o a n c o u n s e l i n g t o b e i n c l u d e d a s a p a r t o f t h a t .

22T h o u g h t h e g r e a t e s t m a j o r i t y o f o u r s t u d e n t s a r e

23g o i n g t o b e s t u d e n t s w h o a r e g o i n g t o b e g o i n g

24t h r o u g h l o a n c o u n s e l i n g a s p a r t o f t h e i r F e d e r a l

578

579
580
581 117
582

1S t a f f o r d L o a n b o r r o w i n g , i t i s n o t a r e q u i r e m e n t .

2T h e r e w i l l b e s t u d e n t s w h o w i l l n o t h a v e b o r r o w e d

3t h r o u g h t h e F e d e r a l S t a f f o r d L o a n p r o g r a m . We

4w i l l g i v e t h e m o p p o r t u n i t i e s t o b e g i n b o r r o w i n g

5l a r g e a m o u n t s o f f u n d s w i t h o u t g o i n g t h r o u g h t h a t

6l o a n c o u n s e l i n g .

7 At the school, I am hesitant, in a way, to

8o f f e r n e w r e q u i r e m e n t s , b u t a t t h e s a m e t i m e I

9t h i n k t h i s i s g o o d p r a c t i c e f o r s t u d e n t s t o g o a n d

10b e e d u c a t e d b o r r o w e r s a s t h e y p r o g r e s s f o r w a r d

11t h r o u g h t h e r e m a i n i n g o f t h e i r g r a d u a t e a n d

12p r o f e s s i o n a l c a r e e r .

13 So thank you very much for the opportunity

14t o o f f e r o u r t h o u g h t s h e r e t o d a y a n d f o r b e i n g

15h e r e . Thank you.

16 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

17 DAN MADZELAN: Jacki Fairbairn.

18 JACKI FAIRBAIRN: Hello, my name is Jacki

19F a i r b a i r n . I am the Director of Policy and

20R e g u l a t o r y C o m p l i a n c e o f G r e a t L a k e s H i g h e r

21E d u c a t i o n G u a r a n t e e C o r p o r a t i o n .

22 Great Lakes is a public, non-profit

23c o r p o r a t i o n . It administers the Federal Family

24E d u c a t i o n a l P r o g r a m s . We are the designated

583

584
585
586 118
587

1g u a r a n t o r i n t h e S t a t e o f W i s c o n s i n , M i n n e s o t a ,

2M i c h i g a n , a n d i n O h i o .

3 To begin with, Great Lakes would like to

4e x p r e s s o u r s u p p o r t f o r t h e t e s t i m o n y g i v e n b y M r .

5T o r r e s f r o m t h e T e x a s G u a r a n t e e S t u d e n t L o a n

6C o r p o r a t i o n , w h i c h I w i l l r e f e r t o a s T G . In

7p a r t i c u l a r , w e s u p p o r t T G ’ s c a l l f o r t h e N a t i o n a l

8A s s o c i a t i o n o f S t u d e n t L o a n A d m i n i s t r a t o r s t o b e

9r e p r e s e n t e d i n t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g a c t i v i t y .

10 We too feel that NASLA has been an

11e f f e c t i v e v o i c e f o r s t u d e n t g u a r a n t o r s w h o s e

12m i s s i o n i t i s t o e n s u r e c o n s i s t e n t a n d r e l i a b l e

13s e r v i c e s t o A m e r i c a ’ s s t u d e n t s , p a r e n t s , a n d p o s t -

14s e c o n d a r y i n s t i t u t i o n s . Importantly, NASLA is not

15a W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . , b a s e d t r a d e a s s o c i a t i o n . It

16o p e r a t e s t h r o u g h t h e c o n s e n s u s o f i t s m e m b e r s

17w i t h o u t p a i d s t a f f o r o u t s i d e c o n s u l t a n t s .

18A c c o r d i n g l y , i t b r i n g s t o t h e t a b l e t h e d i r e c t a n d

19u n f i l t e r e d v i e w s o f a c t u a l o p e r a t i o n a l g u a r a n t e e

20a g e n c y p a r t i c i p a n t s .

21 We believe that, together with the program

22b e n e f i c i a r i e s , o u r s t u d e n t s , a n d o u r p a r e n t s , i t

23i s t h e o p e r a t i o n a l p r o g r a m p a r t i c i p a n t s w h o s h o u l d

24b e a t t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g t a b l e . We

588

589
590
591 119
592

1u n d e r s t a n d t h a t i t i s i m p o s s i b l e f o r a l l t o

2p a r t i c i p a t e . In that regard, the Secretary should

3r e c o g n i z e t h o s e a s s o c i a t i o n s a n d c o n s o r t i u m s t h a t

4m o s t d i r e c t l y r e p r e s e n t t h e o p e r a t i o n a l

5p a r t i c i p a n t s .

6 Appointment of umbrella organizations, of

7t r a d e a s s o c i a t i o n s a s d i r e c t n e g o t i a t o r s w o u l d

8a p p e a r a p p r o p r i a t e o n l y w h e r e t h e u m b r e l l a

9o r g a n i z a t i o n r e p r e s e n t s c o n s t i t u e n c i e s t o o

10n u m e r o u s t o b e s e p a r a t e l y s e a t e d , o r w h o h a v e n o

11s e p a r a t e v o i c e . In the case of guarantee

12a g e n c i e s , d i r e c t r e p r e s e n t a t i v e e n t i t i e s s u c h a s

13N A S L A a n d t h e G u a r a n t o r C E O C a u c u s w o u l d a p p e a r t o

14b e t h e p r e f e r r e d c h o i c e .

15 This would appear appropriate in the case

16o f t h e T i t l e I V l o a n i s s u e s n e g o t i a t i n g t r a c k .

17T h e r e f o r e , w e e n c o u r a g e t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

18E d u c a t i o n t o c o n s i d e r , o n c e a g a i n , e x t e n d i n g a n

19i n v i t a t i o n t o t h e n a t i o n ’ s g u a r a n t o r s .

20 Now, the Department has heard a variety of

21v e r y i m p o r t a n t i s s u e s t h r o u g h o u t t o d a y ’ s

22t e s t i m o n y , w h i c h c e r t a i n l y u n d e r s c o r e s t h e

23n e c e s s i t y o f e n g a g i n g i n a n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g

24p r o c e s s . We would like, as Great Lakes, to echo

593

594
595
596 120
597

1t h e c o n c e r n s b r o u g h t f o r t h b y o u r c o l l e a g u e s a t

2t h e T e x a s G u a r a n t e e A g e n c y , a n d w e w o u l d l i k e t o

3a d d a f e w m o r e i s s u e s t o t h e l i s t f o r y o u r

4c o n s i d e r a t i o n .

5 We will be submitting several

6r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s b u t , f o r p u r p o s e s o f b r e v i t y , a n d

7i n t h e i n t e r e s t o f a v o i d i n g r e d u n d a n c i e s , I w i l l

8h i g h l i g h t o n l y t h r e e , t h e f i r s t b e i n g

9c a p i t a l i z a t i o n p o l i c i e s , d i s a b i l i t y d i s c h a r g e ,

10a n d , a g a i n , a s w a s m e n t i o n e d o t h e r t i m e s , b u t a l s o

11f a i r r e p a y m e n t .

12 Regarding the capitalization policies, I

13w o u l d l i k e a d d r e s s t h e i s s u e w i t h t h e f r e q u e n c y

14w i t h w h i c h i t o c c u r s w i t h t h e P L U S a n d

15c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n p r o g r a m s . Congress, industry

16t r a d e a s s o c i a t i o n s , b o r r o w e r s , a n d o t h e r s h a v e

17e x p r e s s e d c o n c e r n a b o u t t h e i n c r e a s e d o v e r a l l

18a m o u n t t h a t b o r r o w e r s m u s t r e p a y o v e r t h e l i f e o f

19t h e i r l o a n s . The current capitalization policy

20f o r P L U S a n d c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n s a l l o w s l o a n

21h o l d e r s t o c a p i t a l i z e i n t e r e s t o n a q u a r t e r l y

22b a s i s .

23 Interest occurring on Stafford Loans may,

24h o w e v e r , o n l y b e c a p i t a l i z e d w h e n t h e l o a n g o e s

598

599
600
601 121
602

1f r o m a n o n - r e p a y m e n t s t a t u s , s u c h a s g r a c e o r

2d e f e r m e n t , t o a r e p a y m e n t s t a t u s . We suggest the

3D e p a r t m e n t c o n s i d e r a l i g n i n g t h e c a p i t a l i z a t i o n

4p o l i c i e s f o r P L U S a n d c o n s o l i d a t i o n w i t h w h a t i s

5a l l o w a b l e u n d e r t h e S t a f f o r d L o a n p r o g r a m . This

6c o u l d s a v e P L U S a n d c o n s o l i d a t i o n b o r r o w e r s a

7c o n s i d e r a b l e a m o u n t o f m o n e y , e s p e c i a l l y w h e n

8v i e w e d i n t h e c o n t e x t o f m u c h h i g h e r o u t s t a n d i n g

9b a l a n c e s c a r r i e d b y s t u d e n t s a n d p a r e n t s o n P L U S

10a n d c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n s , c o u p l e d w i t h t h e l o n g e r

11r e p a y m e n t p e r i o d s o f c o n s o l i d a t i o n l o a n s .

12 The other issue we would like to bring

13f o r w a r d i s t h a t o f t h e t o t a l a n d p e r m a n e n t

14d i s a b i l i t y d i s c h a r g e p r o c e s s a n d r e q u i r e m e n t s .

15T h e c o n d i t i o n s o f a d i s c h a r g e p r o v i s i o n h a v e b e e n

16i n p l a c e s i n c e 2 0 0 2 . We feel that sufficient time

17h a s t a k e n p l a c e f o r t h e D e p a r t m e n t t o t a k e a s t e p

18b a c k a n d c o r r e c t i v e l y l o o k a t t h e c o n d i t i o n a l

19d i s c h a r g e p r o c e s s a n d e v a l u a t e w h e t h e r o r n o t i t

20i s e f f e c t i v e l y a c c o m p l i s h i n g i t s p u r p o s e o f

21p r o v i d i n g a b a l a n c e b e t w e e n p r o g r a m i n t e g r i t y a n d

22t h e a d d i t i o n a l b u r d e n p l a c e d o n b o r r o w e r s w h o h a v e

23b e e n d e t e r m i n e d e l i g i b l e f o r t o t a l a n d p e r m a n e n t

24d i s a b i l i t y d i s c h a r g e b u t w h o a r e f o r c e d t o w a i t

603

604
605
606 122
607

1f o r t h i s b e n e f i t .

2 While we understand the Department’s

3o b l i g a t i o n i s t o p r o t e c t t h e i n t e g r i t y o f t h e

4d i s c h a r g e p r o g r a m a n d n o t a l l o w f o r a b u s e o r

5f r a u d , w e a r e n o t c o n v i n c e d t h a t t h e c u r r e n t

6p r o c e s s i s a s s t r e a m l i n e d o r a s e f f i c i e n t a s i t

7c o u l d b e . Experience in working within the

8p a r a m e t e r s o f t h e c o n d i t i o n a l d i s c h a r g e p r o c e s s

9o v e r t h e p a s t f o u r y e a r s h a s s h o w n t h a t t o o m a n y

10b o r r o w e r s a r e b e i n g c a u g h t i n a w e b o f

11b u r e a u c r a t i c r e d t a p e a n d f o r c e d t o j u m p t h r o u g h

12t h e p r o v e r b i a l h o o p s . In too many cases, a

13d i s q u a l i f i c a t i o n d e t e r m i n a t i o n h a s b e e n f o u n d t o

14b e b a s e d u p o n t h e D e p a r t m e n t ’ s p r o c e d u r a l

15i n a b i l i t y t o v e r i f y c o n t i n u e d e l i g i b i l i t y .

16 In addition, Great Lakes would like the

17D e p a r t m e n t t o r e e x a m i n e i t s p o l i c y t h a t a l l o w s i t

18t o g a r n i s h t h e d i s a b i l i t y w a g e s o f d e f a u l t e d

19b o r r o w e r s . We believe that this is a policy that

20o u g h t b e r e s c i n d e d . Borrowers whose disability

21p a y m e n t s a r e g a r n i s h e d a r e f r e q u e n t l y i n t h e m o s t

22e x t r e m e f i n a n c i a l c i r c u m s t a n c e s , a n d r e s o l u t i o n o f

23g a r n i s h m e n t c o m p l a i n t s a r e d i f f i c u l t i f n o t

24i m p o s s i b l e t o r e s o l v e w i t h a l t e r n a t i v e r e p a y m e n t

608

609
610
611 123
612

1o p t i o n s o r t o e v e n j u s t i f y a s m o r a l s o c i a l p o l i c y .

2 Finally, we would like to endorse the plan

3f o r f a i r l o a n p a y m e n t s a s o u t l i n e d b y R o b e r t

4S h i r e m a n , E x e c u t i v e D i r e c t o r o n t h e P r o j e c t o n

5S t u d e n t L o a n D e b t , d u r i n g h i s t e s t i m o n y o n

6S e p t e m b e r 1 9 , 2 0 0 6 , i n B e r k e l e y . Great Lakes

7j o i n s s t u d e n t g r o u p s , p a r e n t a s s o c i a t i o n s , a n d

8c o l l e g e a c c e s s p r o v i d e r s i n f o r m a l p e t i t i o n u r g i n g

9t h e D e p a r t m e n t t o m a k e s t u d e n t p a y m e n t s m o r e

10m a n a g e a b l e f o r l o w - i n c o m e b o r r o w e r s .

11 The plan focuses specifically to simplify

12w o r k i n g o n t h e h a r d s h i p a p p l i c a t i o n p r o c e s s a n d

13m a k e r e q u i r e d p a y m e n t s m o r e m a n a g e a b l e b y b a s i n g

14t h e m o n b o t h F e d e r a l p o v e r t y g u i d e l i n e s a n d f a m i l y

15s i z e . It also seeks to make the income contingent

16r e p a y m e n t p r o g r a m m o r e e f f e c t i v e a n d a c c e s s i b l e t o

17m o r e s t u d e n t l o a n b o r r o w e r s , n o t j u s t t h o s e i n t h e

18F e d e r a l D i r e c t L o a n P r o g r a m .

19 The proposal contained in that plan are

20c o n s i s t e n t w i t h G r e a t L a k e s c o m m i t m e n t t o h e l p i n g

21b o r r o w e r s a v o i d d e f a u l t i n g o n t h e i r s t u d e n t l o a n s

22a n d , i f a d o p t e d , w o u l d f u r t h e r a d v a n c e o u r e f f o r t s

23t o p r o v i d e v i a b l e r e p a y m e n t o p t i o n s t o b o r r o w e r s

24w h o a r e w i l l i n g t o p a y t h e i r s t u d e n t l o a n s , b u t

613

614
615
616 124
617

1a r e u n a b l e t o m a n a g e t h e i r m o n t h l y p a y m e n t s .

2 In closing, I would like to also mention

3t h a t G r e a t L a k e s s u p p o r t s t h e c o m m e n t s e n d o r s e d b y

4N A S L A , t h e G u a r a n t e e A g e n c y C E O C a u c u s , a n d o t h e r s

5i n r e s p o n s e t o t h e i n t e r i m f i n a l r e g u l a t i o n s t h a t

6t h e D e p a r t m e n t p u b l i s h e d i n t h e A u g u s t 9 t h F e d e r a l

7R e g i s t e r .

8 Thank you.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: We will try for Edgar

11S t a r e n a g a i n b e f o r e l u n c h . Edgar?

12 [Pause in proceedings.]

13 DAN MADZELAN: Okay. Thank you.

14 Does anyone want to be Edgar?

15 [Laughter.]

16 DAN MADZELAN: You have the opportunity

17f o r 1 5 m i n u t e s o r s o .

18 Okay. We will, then, break for lunch.

19 [Discussion off the record.]

20 DAN MADZELAN: This is the, I guess, the

21o p e n m i k e p a r t o f t h i s .

22 [Laughter.]

23 PAUL LINGERFELTER: I am on your schedule

24r i g h t a f t e r l u n c h . My name is Paul Lingerfelter,

618

619
620
621 125
622

1a n d I w i l l j u s t g o a h e a d n o w , i f t h a t i s o k a y .

2 I am the President of the State Higher

3E d u c a t i o n E x e c u t i v e O f f i c e r s A s s o c i a t i o n . I have

4n o t - - I a m g o i n g t o s p e a k e x t e m p o r a n e o u s l y t h i s

5m o r n i n g . We have a statement on our Web site. I

6a l s o w o u l d c a l l y o u r a t t e n t i o n , a n d t h e a t t e n t i o n

7o f t h e a u d i e n c e , t o a n o t h e r c o m m i s s i o n r e p o r t t h a t

8s h e h a s s p o n s o r e d , t h e C o m m i s s i o n o n

9A c c o u n t a b i l i t y i n H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n , c h a i r e d b y o n e

10o f S e c r e t a r y S p e l l i n g s ’ p r e d e c e s s o r s , D i c k R i l e y ,

11a n d a l s o G o v e r n o r F r a n k K e a t i n g .

12 Now, these two commission reports have

13v e r y m a n y s i m i l a r r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s , a l l a d d r e s s i n g

14t h e p r o b l e m s w e a r e a l l h e r e t o t a l k a b o u t t o d a y .

15I w a n t t o t h a n k y o u f o r y o u r a t t e n t i o n , a n d a l s o

16t h e a u d i e n c e , f o r t h e i r p a r t i c i p a t i o n a n d p a t i e n c e

17t h r o u g h a l l o f t h i s t e s t i m o n y .

18 I want to begin by thanking the Secretary

19f o r e s t a b l i s h i n g t h e C o m m i s s i o n o n t h e F u t u r e o f

20H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n , a n d m a k e j u s t a c o u p l e o f

21c o m m e n t s o f w h y I t h i n k t h i s i s a s i g n i f i c a n t

22r e p o r t . The positive changes in the world economy

23h a v e c h a n g e d t h e j o b d e s c r i p t i o n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n .

24W h e n I g r e w u p , t h e j o b o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n w a s t o

623

624
625
626 126
627

1e d u c a t e 2 0 o r 3 0 p e r c e n t o f s t u d e n t s t o w h a t w e

2t h e n c o n s i d e r e d a h i g h s t a n d a r d o f l e a r n i n g . Now,

3w e h a v e t o e d u c a t e 5 0 - 8 0 p e r c e n t o f s t u d e n t s t o

4t h a t s t a n d a r d . It is a totally different job.

5 I think the important contribution of the

6C o m m i s s i o n i s t o c a l l f o r a n e n d t o c o m p l a c e n c y

7a b o u t h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s . We

8h a v e b e c o m e v e r y a c c u s t o m e d t o t h i n k i n g w e h a v e

9t h e b e s t h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n s y s t e m i n t h e w o r l d , a n d

10w e d i d f o r t h e w o r l d t h a t w e h a d 2 5 y e a r s a g o .

11F o r t h e w o r l d t h a t w e h a v e t o d a y , i t i s n o l o n g e r

12t h e b e s t .

13 The bottom line is that more Americans

14n e e d t o p a r t i c i p a t e i n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a n d n e e d

15t o s u c c e e d , a n d w e a l s o h a v e t o h a v e a b e t t e r

16s y s t e m o f l i f e l o n g e d u c a t i o n . It is pretty

17o b v i o u s w h a t w e h a v e t o c h a n g e . We have to

18p r o v i d e o p p o r t u n i t i e s f o r p e o p l e t h a t a r e n o t

19p a r t i c i p a t i n g a n d s u c c e e d i n g n o w t o p a r t i c i p a t e

20a n d s u c c e e d . They tend to be lower income. They

21t e n d t o b e m i n o r i t y . They tend to be

22d i s a d v a n t a g e d i n a v a r i e t y o f w a y s .

23 The most important issues that we need to

24d e a l w i t h a r e , f i r s t , p r e p a r a t i o n f o r c o l l e g e .

628

629
630
631 127
632

1T h e A c a d e m i c C o m p e t i t i v e n e s s G r a n t s a r e a n

2i m p o r t a n t m e a n s o f a d d r e s s i n g t h a t i s s u e . Other

3t h i n g s n e e d t o h a p p e n i n t h e s t a t e s t o a d d r e s s t h e

4s a m e i s s u e .

5 The second important issue is aspiration

6f o r c o l l e g e . Nobody has said anything about Gear

7U p t o d a y . I would like to. I think that the Gear

8U p p r o g r a m , b e c a u s e i t i s s y s t e m i c , i t i s

9f r e q u e n t l y u s e d a t t h e s t a t e l e v e l t o e n c o u r a g e

10p a r t i c i p a t i o n i n c o l l e g e , i s a n e n o r m o u s l y

11i m p o r t a n t r e s o u r c e a s w e a d d r e s s t h i s n a t i o n a l

12c h a l l e n g e .

13 The third critical issue is affordability.

14W e n e e d t o h a v e a c c e s s a n d w e n e e d t o m a k e s u r e

15t h a t s t u d e n t s t h a t h a v e d o n e w h a t t h e y n e e d t o d o

16t o b e p r e p a r e d c a n s u c c e e d .

17 I would like to emphasize just a few

18s h o r t - t e r m p r i o r i t i e s . Our first is to simplify

19t h e p r o c e s s o f a p p l y i n g f o r a i d . The Secretary

20a n d t h e C o m m i s s i o n a r e a b s o l u t e l y r i g h t . We need

21t o r e c o g n i z e t h a t a l o t o f t h e r e g u l a t i o n s t h a t w e

22u s e t h a t m a k e t h i s c o m p l i c a t e d a n d c u m b e r s o m e

23c r e a t e a s e n s e o f f a l s e p r e c i s i o n t h a t i s b o g u s ,

24t o u s e a s h o r t , c o m m o n w o r d .

633

634
635
636 128
637

1 Second, I think we need to find ways of

2g e t t i n g s t u d e n t s m u c h e a r l i e r k n o w l e d g e t h a t t h e y

3a r e e l i g i b l e f o r s t u d e n t a i d . There is a great

4s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m i n t h e s t a t e o f O k l a h o m a t h a t

5t e l l s s t u d e n t s a s e a r l y a s 7 t h , 8 t h , a n d 9 t h g r a d e

6w h e t h e r t h e y w i l l b e e l i g i b l e f o r a i d i n c o l l e g e .

7T h a t i s a s t a n d a r d w h i c h w e s h o u l d a l l a s p i r e t o .

8 Third, we need to find ways of connecting

9t h e r e g u l a t i o n s f o r t h e A c a d e m i c C o m p e t i t i v e n e s s

10G r a n t t o e x i s t i n g s t a t e p r o g r a m s . There needs to

11b e s o m e r e a l c o n v e r s a t i o n a n d e f f o r t t o m a k e s u r e

12t h a t t h e e f f o r t s o f t h e s t a t e s a n d t h e F e d e r a l

13g o v e r n m e n t a r e a l i g n e d .

14 We need to increase the Pell maximum as

15q u i c k l y a s p o s s i b l e , a n d w e n e e d t o p r o v i d e

16i n c e n t i v e s f o r g r o w t h i n s t a t e s t u d e n t a i d

17p r o g r a m s . The Federal government cannot do

18e v e r y t h i n g . It needs to be done--a few states

19h a v e s t r o n g s t u d e n t a i d p r o g r a m s , b u t m a n y m o r e

20n e e d t o .

21 I want to mention just a couple other

22i s s u e s t h a t a r e o n t h e t a b l e , a n d t h e n I w i l l

23s t o p , a n d w e c a n a l l g o t o l u n c h . One issue that

24i s r e a l l y i m p o r t a n t i s d a t a s y s t e m s . The

638

639
640
641 129
642

1C o m m i s s i o n s a w t h i s a s a n i s s u e . The fact is that

2w e w i l l n o t b e a b l e t o m o b i l i z e t h i s c o u n t r y t o d o

3w h a t w e n e e d t o d o i n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n u n l e s s w e

4c a n g i v e t h e p e o p l e g o o d i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t

5g r a d u a t i o n r a t e s , a b o u t s t u d e n t s u c c e s s i n o u r

6s y s t e m s o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a n d f o c u s p u b l i c

7a t t e n t i o n o n t h e g o a l s w e n e e d t o a c h i e v e .

8S e c o n d l y , w i t h o u t d a t a s y s t e m s , w e d o n o t k n o w

9w h e r e w e n e e d t o i m p r o v e . So we need to have

10b e t t e r d a t a s y s t e m s t o d e a l w i t h t h o s e i s s u e s .

11 I want to make just a quick comment on

12s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g . I think some of the comments

13m a d e t o d a y a b o u t t h e i m p o r t a n c e o f a v o i d i n g , s h o r t

14o f , a r i g i d n a t i o n a l s y s t e m f o r a s s e s s i n g s t u d e n t

15l e a r n i n g a r e r i g h t o n . It would be a mistake to

16u s e s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g a s a f i n e - g r a i n e d t o o l o f

17a s s e s s i n g i n s t i t u t i o n a l p r o g r e s s o r i n s t i t u t i o n a l

18c a p a c i t y . At the same time we need to have

19g e n e r a l m e a s u r e s o f w h e t h e r s t u d e n t s a r e l e a r n i n g

20w h a t t h e y n e e d t o l e a r n i n a h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

21s y s t e m .

22 The Commission’s recommendations for a

231 2 t h g r a d e N A E P f o r i n c r e a s i n g t h e f r e q u e n c y o f a

24n a t i o n a l a s s e s s m e n t o f a d u l t l i t e r a c y , a n d a l s o

643

644
645
646 130
647

1f o r s t a t e s t o d e v e l o p g e n e r a l a s s e s s m e n t s o f

2s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g , s o s t a t e s c a n k n o w w h a t t h e i r

3i s s u e s a r e .

4 And finally, the Commission report called

5f o r r e a l i n c r e a s e s i n p r o d u c t i v i t y o f h i g h e r

6e d u c a t i o n . I think we all recognize that is

7e s s e n t i a l . I think it is important, though, to

8s t r e s s t h a t w e a r e g o i n g t o n e e d t o s p e n d m o r e

9m o n e y i n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i n o r d e r t o m e e t t h e s e

10n a t i o n a l g o a l s . We have got to find a way to get

11a l o t m o r e p r o d u c t i v i t y o u t o f t h e m o n e y w e d o

12s p e n d . And that is the way we need to think about

13t h i s .

14 Thank you very much.

15 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

16 DAN MADZELAN: With that, we will break

17f o r l u n c h a n d r e c o n v e n e h e r e a t 1 : 0 0 .

18 [Whereupon, at 11:51, the hearing

19a d j o u r n e d f o r l u n c h . ]

20

21 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N

22 [1:11 p.m.]

23 DAN MADZELAN: Welcome back. Noticing the

24p r e s e n c e o f a q u o r u m , w e w i l l c o n t i n u e w i t h M e e g a n

648

649
650
651 131
652

1B a s s e t t .

2 MEEGAN BASSETT: Good afternoon. Thank

3y o u s o m u c h f o r t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o a d d r e s s y o u

4t o d a y .

5 My name is Meegan Dugan Bassett. I am a

6S e n i o r P o l i c y A s s o c i a t e w i t h a g r o u p c a l l e d W o m e n

7E m p l o y e d .

8 As I was preparing my testimony today, I

9w a s r e a l l y a s t o n i s h e d t h a t t h e w i d t h a n d d e p t h o f

10t h e C o m m i s s i o n w a s a b l e t o r e a c h a r e p o r t , a n d I

11h o p e t h a t m y c o m m e n t s w i l l h e l p y o u a l i t t l e b i t

12i n t r i m m i n g s o m e p r i o r i t i e s f o r t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

13E d u c a t i o n .

14 Women Employed is a 34-year-old

15o r g a n i z a t i o n l o c a t e d h e r e i n C h i c a g o . We are

16d e d i c a t e d t o t h e e c o n o m i c a d v a n c e m e n t o f w o m e n a n d

17r e m o v a l o f b a r r i e r s t o e c o n o m i c e q u i t y . We pursue

18t h i s m i s s i o n b y p r o m o t i n g f a i r w o r k p l a c e s ,

19i n c r e a s i n g a c c e s s t o e d u c a t i o n a n d t r a i n i n g f o r

20l o w - i n c o m e a d u l t s a n d d e v e l o p i n g m o d e l t o o l s a n d

21p r o g r a m s .

22 As our economy has changed, postsecondary

23e d u c a t i o n h a s b e c o m e t h e b e s t w a y f o r l o w - i n c o m e

24a d u l t w o r k e r s t o i n c r e a s e t h e i r w a g e s . In 2003,

653

654
655
656 132
657

1w o r k e r s w i t h a s s o c i a t e d e g r e e s e a r n e d 3 4 p e r c e n t

2t h a n t h o s e w i t h o n l y a h i g h s c h o o l d i p l o m a , a n d

3n u m b e r s w e r e d o u b l e f o r b a c h e l o r d e g r e e h o l d e r s .

4 In Illinois and elsewhere, jobs requiring

5n o f o r m a l t r a i n i n g a r e r e a l l y o n t h e d e c l i n e . So

6i t i s m o r e i m p o r t a n t t h a n e v e r t o i n c r e a s e

7a c c e s s i b i l i t y a n d a f f o r d a b i l i t y i n o u r n a t i o n ’ s

8e d u c a t i o n s y s t e m f o r l o w - i n c o m e w o r k i n g a d u l t s

9t h a t w i s h t o r e t u r n t o s c h o o l , a s w e l l . The

10C o m m i s s i o n h a s r e c o g n i z e d t h e n e e d t o a d d r e s s

11c h a l l e n g e s s p e c i f i c t o t h e g r o w i n g n u m b e r o f

12a d u l t s w h o a r e e n r o l l i n g a s i n d e p e n d e n t s t u d e n t s .

13H o w e v e r , p r o g r a m s o f t e n i g n o r e t h i s p o p u l a t i o n .

14 I will just really quickly go through a

15f e w p r i o r i t i e s w e b e l i e v e t h e D e p a r t m e n t r e a l l y

16s h o u l d t a k e o n i f a c c e s s i b i l i t y a n d a f f o r d a b i l i t y

17a r e t o i m p r o v e f o r l o w - i n c o m e a d u l t s i n

18p a r t i c u l a r . First of all, we cannot make progress

19t o w a r d s i n c r e a s e d a c c e s s w i t h o u t i n c r e a s i n g

20a v a i l a b l e n e e d - b a s e d a i d a n d e n s u r i n g t h a t i t g e t s

21t o t h e n e e d i e s t s t u d e n t s . This may not be

22s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u h a v e m u c h c o n t r o l o v e r , b u t I

23w o u l d l i k e t o p u t i t o n y o u r r a d a r s c r e e n .

24A l t h o u g h i n d e p e n d e n t s t u d e n t s t e n d b e f r o m l o w e r -

658

659
660
661 133
662

1i n c o m e f a m i l i e s t h a n o t h e r s t u d e n t s , F e d e r a l

2E x p e c t e d F a m i l y C o n t r i b u t i o n c a l c u l a t i o n s p e n a l i z e

3t h e m f o r w o r k i n g . Calculations of independent

4s t u d e n t a i d a r e o f t e n d e e p l y u n r e a l i s t i c .

51 A single mom earning $15,000 a year simply

6c a n n o t a f f o r d t o s p e n d 5 0 p e r c e n t o f h e r i n c o m e o n

7c o l l e g e c o s t s a s t h e f o r m u l a o f t e n a s s u m e s . Too

8o f t e n , l o w - w a g e w o r k e r s w i t h c h i l d r e n m u s t c h o o s e

9b e t w e e n g e t t i n g t h e s k i l l s t h e y n e e d t o i n c r e a s e

10t h e i r i n c o m e a n d k e e p i n g t h e i r f a m i l i e s f e d ,

11c l o t h e d , a n d s h e l t e r e d , n o t t o m e n t i o n d a y c a r e , i f

12t h e y a r e j u g g l i n g s c h o o l a n d

13w o r k .

14 Increasing the basic Pell Grant

15s u b s t a n t i a l l y , a s t h e C o m m i s s i o n h a s r e c o m m e n d e d ,

16w o u l d g r e a t l y i n c r e a s e t h e n u m b e r o f l o w - i n c o m e

17w o r k e r s w h o c a n a f f o r d t o c o m p l e t e p o s t s e c o n d a r y

18e d u c a t i o n . The current cutoff is considered

19v o l a t i l e b y s o m e , m e a n i n g t h e v e r y s m a l l

20d i f f e r e n c e s i n i n c o m e l e a d t o i n e l i g i b i l i t y v e r y

21q u i c k l y . A study by the Illinois Student

22A s s i s t a n c e C o m m i s s i o n s h o w s t h a t i n d e p e n d e n t

23s t u d e n t s r e c e i v i n g e a r n i n g s a s l o w a s $ 1 8 , 0 0 0 a

24y e a r a n d p o s s i b l y l o w e r a r e n o t e l i g i b l e f o r P e l l

663

664
665
666 134
667

1G r a n t s i n I l l i n o i s .

2 One thing that I would also like to

3m e n t i o n i s t h a t t h e C o m m i s s i o n h a s m e n t i o n e d

4t h e n e e d f o r c o n n e c t i o n s b e t w e e n a d u l t e d u c a t i o n

5r e m e d i a l c o u r s e s a n d t h e c o l l e g e l e v e l , a n d t h a t

6i s r e a l l y i m p o r t a n t , b e c a u s e c o n t i n u a t i o n r a t e s

7a r e r e a l l y a b y s m a l i f y o u l o o k a t s t u d e n t s w h o a r e

8i n r e m e d i a l c o u r s e o r a d u l t e d u c a t i o n w h o w i s h t o

9g e t i n t o c e r t i f i c a t e o r d e g r e e p r o g r a m s .

10 However, some of the grant programs that

11a r e b e i n g c o n s i d e r e d b y t h e D e p a r t m e n t r i g h t n o w

12s u m m a r i l y e x c l u d e n o n - t r a d i t i o n a l s t u d e n t s . There

13a r e a n u m b e r o f c e r t i f i c a t e p r o g r a m s o u t t h e r e

14t h a t a r e d e m a n d e d b y b u s i n e s s e s a n d t h a t w o r k v e r y

15w e l l f o r l o w - i n c o m e w o r k i n g s t u d e n t s b e c a u s e t h e y

16a r e q u i c k e r a n d t h e y a r e v e r y c o n n e c t e d t o t h e

17t y p e s o f j o b s t h a t t h e y w o u l d l i k e t o g o i n t o .

18T h o s e a r e o f t e n n o t c o v e r e d b y f i n a n c i a l a i d .

19 One issue that also remains unaddressed by

20t h e C o m m i s s i o n i s t h e n e e d f o r s u p p o r t

21s e r v i c e s . I believe that relates to some of the

22p r o g r a m s t h a t y o u a l l a r e l o o k i n g a t r i g h t n o w .

23F o r l o w - i n c o m e s t u d e n t s , s u p p o r t s e r v i c e s s u c h a s

24s u b s i d i z e d c h i l d c a r e , t u t o r i n g , i n t e n s i v e

668

669
670
671 135
672

1c o u n s e l i n g , a n d e a r l y c o m p r e h e n s i v e c a r e e r

2c o u n s e l i n g c a n m a k e a t r e m e n d o u s d i f f e r e n c e i n

3w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e y c o m p l e t e s c h o o l .

4 One of the things--last year we put out a

5r e p o r t c a l l e d , " I n v e s t i n g i n S u c c e s s : E d u c a t i o n a l

6S u p p o r t s f o r L o w I n c o m e S t u d e n t s i n I l l i n o i s , " a n d

7o n e o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t I f o u n d a s I w a s p r e p a r i n g

8f o r t h a t r e p o r t w a s t h a t I t a l k e d t o a n u m b e r o f

9s t u d e n t s a l l o v e r I l l i n o i s w h o w e r e a d u l t

10s t u d e n t s - - I s h o u l d s a y i n d e p e n d e n t s t u d e n t s - - w h o

11w e r e i n t h e T R I O p r o g r a m . Everyone that I talked

12t o s a i d t h a t t h e y a b s o l u t e l y d e p e n d e d o n t h e e x t r a

13s u p p o r t t h a t t h e y h a d r e c e i v e d f r o m T R I O b e c a u s e

14t h e y o f t e n - - b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e j u g g l i n g f a m i l y

15r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s a n d w o r k r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s , t h e y

16o f t e n r a n i n t o e m e r g e n c i e s a n d n e e d e d a l o t o f

17h e l p , b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e a l s o f i r s t g e n e r a t i o n

18s t u d e n t s . They did not have that background

19f a m i l y k n o w l e d g e a b o u t w h a t t h e y n e e d e d t o d o i n

20s c h o o l a n d t h e t y p e s o f c a r e e r s t o g e t i n t o , e t

21c e t e r a .

22 So I would really like to encourage the

23D e p a r t m e n t t o d o a s m u c h a s y o u c a n t o c o n t i n u e t o

24f u n d p r o g r a m s t h a t a r e w o r k i n g w e l l a n d i m p r o v i n g

673

674
675
676 136
677

1t h o s e p r o g r a m s a s o p p o s e d t o c u t t i n g b a c k o n t h e m

2a s m u c h a s i t i s i n y o u r p o w e r .

3 We commend Secretary Spellings' Department

4o f E d u c a t i o n C o m m i s s i o n o n t h e F u t u r e o f H i g h e r

5E d u c a t i o n f o r t a k i n g a f r e s h l o o k a t h i g h e r

6e d u c a t i o n a n d r e a l l y a t t e m p t i n g t o a d d r e s s t h e

7t h r e e " A ’ s " : accessibility, affordability, and

8a c c o u n t a b i l i t y . The Commission has made

9s o m e e x c e l l e n t r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s t h a t w e b e l i e v e

10c o u l d m a k e a s i g n i f i c a n t d i f f e r e n c e f o r n o n -

11t r a d i t i o n a l s t u d e n t s . If we are to develop the

12w o r k f o r c e t h a t o u r n e w e c o n o m y n e e d s , w e m u s t

13e f f e c t i v e l y a d d r e s s a c c e s s i b i l i t y a n d

14a f f o r d a b i l i t y f o r o u r c u r r e n t w o r k f o r c e , a s w e l l

15a s f o r y o u n g e r s t u d e n t s .

16 Low-income workers possess a wealth of

17w o r k e x p e r i e n c e , b u t m u s t b e a b l e t o a c c e s s

18p o s t s e c o n d a r y e d u c a t i o n t o q u a l i f y f o r j o b s i n a

19k n o w l e d g e - b a s e d e c o n o m y . Your work can make the

20d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n a l a g g i n g w o r k f o r c e a n d a

21w o r l d - c l a s s w o r k f o r c e .

22 Perhaps Commissioner [sic] Spellings

23p h r a s e d i t b e s t i n a H o u s t o n C h r o n i c l e e d i t o r i a l

24o n S e p t e m b e r 2 8 t h , " O u r g o a l i s n o t h i n g l e s s t h a n

678

679
680
681 137
682

1f u l l a c c e s s t o t h e A m e r i c a n D r e a m b y e v e r y

2A m e r i c a n w h o c h o o s e s t o p u r s u e i t . " Let's make

3t h a t d r e a m a r e a l i t y .

4 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

5 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you, Meegan, for

6r e m i n d i n g t o r e m i n d e v e r y o n e t h a t , w h e n y o u s t e p

7u p t o t h e m i c r o p h o n e t h i s a f t e r n o o n , i f y o u s t a t e

8y o u r n a m e a n d y o u r a f f i l i a t i o n s o w e m a k e s u r e w e

9k n o w w h o s a i d w h a t w h e n w e a r e l o o k i n g a t o u r

10t r a n s c r i p t s o f t h i s s e s s i o n t o d a y .

11 DAN MADZELAN: Next, Edgar Staren and

12B r e t t T h u r m a n .

13 EDGAR STAREN: Hello. My name is Edgar

14S t a r e n , a n d I a m t h e s t u d e n t g o v e r n m e n t p r e s i d e n t

15a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f I l l i n o i s a t C h i c a g o .

16 I remember when I was back in high school.

17I t h o u g h t i t a n e c e s s i t y t o a t t e n d t h e

18p r e s t i g i o u s p r i v a t e u n i v e r s i t i e s l i k e m y f r i e n d s ,

19w h o d i d a c t u a l l y c o m e f r o m a l o t o f m o n e y . My

20f a t h e r d o e s m a k e a s t u r d y i n c o m e , b u t m y p a r e n t s

21a l s o l o v e d t h e i d e a o f f a m i l y . As such, they

22d e c i d e d t o h a v e s i x c h i l d r e n .

23 I remember being so frustrated that I

24w o u l d n o t b e a b l e t o a t t e n d a s c h o o l l i k e m y

683

684
685
686 138
687

1f r i e n d s b e c a u s e , a t t h e t i m e , t h i s w a s t h e

2p r i v i l e g e d t h i n g t o d o , b u t i t w a s t o o e x p e n s i v e .

3I d i d n o t q u a l i f y f o r f i n a n c i a l a i d , a n d m y

4p a r e n t s c o u l d n o t a f f o r d t h e r i s k o f n o t b e i n g

5a b l e t o a f f o r d t o s e n d m y b r o t h e r s a n d s i s t e r t o

6s c h o o l i n t h e f u t u r e .

7 I would not have even known how to take

8o u t a l o a n , o n l y b e i n g 1 7 y e a r s o l d a n d , t o t h i n k ,

9l o a n s f o r g r a d u a t e s c h o o l o n t o p o f t h a t . I

10r e m e m b e r t h i n k i n g , " P o o r m e . I am that kid in the

11m i d d l e c l a s s l o o p h o l e . " But in reality, I was too

12y o u n g t o u n d e r s t a n d t h e s i g n i f i c a n c e o f a l l t h o s e

13z e r o e s w h e n I l o o k e d u p t u i t i o n s o f s c h o o l s . Then

14I g r e w u p .

15 I attend a four-year public university,

16w h i c h I a m v e r y p r o u d t o a t t e n d . I was around

17p e o p l e w h o w e r e b a r e l y e v e n a b l e t o a f f o r d

18a t t e n d i n g t h e r e , h o w e v e r . I remember my

19f r e s h m a n y e a r o f s t u d y i n g a t 2 : 0 0 a . m . i n t h e

20l o b b y w h i l e m y g o o d f r i e n d w o r k e d a t t h e d e s k ,

21w h o , i n c i d e n t a l l y , w a s t a k i n g t h e s a m e t e s t a s m e

22t h e n e x t d a y . He was one of the brightest kids I

23k n e w , a s w e l l . He did not even end up graduating

24f r o m t h a t u n i v e r s i t y b e c a u s e h e c o u l d n o t a f f o r d

688

689
690
691 139
692

1t h e c o s t s . So he ended up going into another

2f i e l d w h i c h h e d i d n o t d r e a m o f w h i c h r e q u i r e d

3l e s s e d u c a t i o n .

4 I remember feeling so fortunate at that

5t i m e t h a t m y p a r e n t s s a v e d a n d w o r k e d h a r d t o

6a l l o w m e t h i s o p p o r t u n i t y , b e c a u s e I k n o w h o w m u c h

7t h e y s t r u g g l e d t o d o s o . Eventually, I realized I

8w a s o n e o f t h e p r i v i l e g e d n o w , i n t e r m s o f t o d a y ' s

9s o c i e t y . I realized that there are millions of

10s t u d e n t s t h a t w o u l d h a v e l o v e d t o h a v e h a d t h e

11o p p o r t u n i t i e s t h a t I h a v e h a d i n t h i s r e g a r d .

12T h i s j u s t c a n n o t b e .

13 My senior year, I was elected to Student

14B o d y P r e s i d e n t . This is the largest student

15p o p u l a t i o n a t a n y p u b l i c u n i v e r s i t y i n C h i c a g o ,

16w h i c h , a s y o u k n o w , i s t h e t h i r d l a r g e s t c i t y i n

17t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s . In this capacity, I have the

18h o n o r o f r e p r e s e n t i n g o v e r 1 6 , 0 0 0 s t u d e n t s .

19T o d a y , I a m h e r e t o d o t h a t t o t h e b e s t o f m y

20a b i l i t y .

21 However, I am not just going to sit up

22h e r e a n d a c t l i k e I u n d e r s t a n d t h e A m e r i c a n

23h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n s y s t e m t o a " T " a n d a c t l i k e I

24h a v e a l l t h e s o l u t i o n s . Just thinking about

693

694
695
696 140
697

1w r i t i n g t h i s s p e e c h i n t h e l a s t c o u p l e o f d a y s , I

2s a w t h e r e a l i z a t i o n o f t r u l y h o w m a n y f a c t o r s

3t h e r e a r e t o c o n s i d e r . However, despite all these

4d i r e c t r e q u e s t s a n d e x p e c t a t i o n s o f a l l t h e

5s t u d e n t s s p e a k i n g t o d a y , I b e l i e v e t h e r e i s o n e

6u n i v e r s a l m e s s a g e , a n d t h a t i s w h a t I w o u l d l i k e

7t o c l o s e w i t h .

8 There are problems. And, while state

9s u p p o r t i s a n e c e s s i t y , i t i s b i g g e r t h a n t h a t .

10F o r t y - t h r e e s t a t e s a r e r e c e i v i n g a n " F " f o r

11c o l l e g e a f f o r d a b i l i t y , w i t h t h e o t h e r 7 r e c e i v i n g

12" D ’ s " a n d " C ’ s . " This is on the national report

13c a r d i n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n . How can we expect our

14s t u d e n t s t o w o r k h a r d f o r t h e b e t t e r i n g o f t h i s

15n a t i o n b y r e c e i v i n g t o p g r a d e s w h e n o u r s y s t e m o f

16h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i s f a i l i n g ?

17 We have top ranks in the world for having

18o l d e r a d u l t s w i t h d e g r e e s , b u t a r e f a i l i n g

19i n t h e e d u c a t i o n a l a t t a i n m e n t o f o u r y o u t h . This

20d i s c r e p a n c y w i l l o n l y g e t l a r g e r u n l e s s t h e s e

21i s s u e s a r e f o c u s e d u p o n .

22 Ninety percent of the fastest growing jobs

23r e q u i r e a p o s t - g r a d u a t e e d u c a t i o n , y e t 9 0

24p e r c e n t c a n n o t a f f o r d t h a t e d u c a t i o n . In the last

698

699
700
701 141
702

1t e n y e a r s , t u i t i o n a n d f e e s o f p u b l i c s c h o o l s r o s e

25 1 p e r c e n t a f t e r i n f l a t i o n , 1 5 p e r c e n t m o r e t h a n

3p r i v a t e s c h o o l s . The debt levels, when comparing

4p u b l i c s c h o o l s t o p r i v a t e s c h o o l s , a r e h a v i n g l e s s

5a n d l e s s d i f f e r e n t i a t i o n .

6 Perhaps the solution is money management

7o r d i f f e r e n t p o l i c i e s t o b e s e t f o r t h . Y e t , e i t h e r

8w a y , w e n e e d t o i m p r o v e o u r y o u t h ' s p r e p a r a t i o n

9p r i o r t o e n t e r i n g c o l l e g e . Perhaps this can be

10d o n e b y f u r t h e r i n g n a t i o n w i d e m e r i t - b a s e d s u p p o r t .

11E i t h e r w a y , w e n e e d t o i n c r e a s e t h e a m o u n t o f

12g r a n t s a n d t h e i r w o r t h . We need to strengthen the

13i m p o r t a n c e o f r e c e i v i n g a c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n , a n d

14w e n e e d t o m a k e t h i s e d u c a t i o n a p o s s i b i l i t y a s

15w e l l a s a r e a l i t y f o r a l l . Then we will continue

16t o u p h o l d t h e s t a n d a r d o f e x c e l l e n c e t h a t t h e

17U n i t e d S t a t e s p r i d e s i t s e l f u p o n .

18 All of these students are asking for is

19o n e t h i n g , a n d o n e t h i n g o n l y . Please make

20t h e f u t u r e o f t o m o r r o w t h e p r i o r i t y o f t o d a y .

21 Thank you.

22 BRETT THURMAN: Thank you for allowing us

23t o c o m e h e r e a n d s p e a k .

24 My name is Brett Thurman. I am also from

703

704
705
706 142
707

1t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f I l l i n o i s C h i c a g o . I am the

2C o m m i t t e e C h a i r o f t h e A c a d e m i c A f f a i r s C o m m i t t e e

3o n t h e U n d e r g r a d u a t e S t u d e n t G o v e r n m e n t .

4 I served four years in the United States

5A r m y b e f o r e e n t e r i n g c o l l e g e a n d , a s s u c h , w a s

6p l a c e d i n a u n i q u e p o s i t i o n t o s e e m y f r i e n d s

7l e a v i n g c o l l e g e a t t h e t i m e I w a s e n t e r i n g . So I

8g o t t o s e e a l o t o f t h e i r i s s u e s w i t h s t u d e n t a i d

9a n d d e b t b u r d e n . And what I have seen from a lot

10o f m y f r i e n d s i s t h i s : t h e b u r d e n a n d c o s t o f

11a t t a i n i n g c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n h a s b e c o m e t o o h e a v y a

12l o a d t o c a r r y r e g a r d l e s s o f t h e p a t h s s t u d e n t s

13t a k e .

14 Although our nation's lower-income

15s t u d e n t s p r e v i o u s l y r e l i e d u p o n a r a t h e r l a r g e

16n e t w o r k o f c o m m u n i t y c o l l e g e s t o o b t a i n t h e i r

17d e g r e e , t h i s a l t e r n a t i v e h a s a l s o i n c r e a s e d i n

18c o s t b e y o n d m o s t s t u d e n t s ' a b i l i t y t o p a y , e v e n

19w i t h f i n a n c i a l a i d .

20 In Dearborn, Michigan, Timothy Pollit is

21c u r r e n t l y i n h i s s i x t h y e a r o f p u r s u i n g h i s

22j o u r n a l i s m d e g r e e , p r e v i o u s l y a s t u d e n t a t E a s t e r n

23M i c h i g a n U n i v e r s i t y , h e n o w a t t e n d s a c o m m u n i t y

24c o l l e g e . After attempting to balance school with

708

709
710
711 143
712

1w o r k i n g f u l l - t i m e t o c o v e r n e c e s s a r y l i v i n g

2e x p e n s e s s u c h a s r e n t , c a r i n s u r a n c e , a n d f o o d ,

3n o t t o m e n t i o n t u i t i o n f e e s a n d b o o k s , T i m h a s

4f i n a l l y s u b m i t t e d t o m o v i n g b a c k i n t o h i s p a r e n t s '

5h o m e . For his six years struggle to pay down

6c o l l e g e d e b t a n d a t t e n d c l a s s e s a t t h e s a m e t i m e ,

7T i m h a s t h e f o l l o w i n g t o s h o w f o r h i s e f f o r t s : H e

8h a s m o v e d b a c k i n t o h i s p a r e n t s ' h o m e ; h e h a s 7 2

9c r e d i t s t o w a r d s a 1 2 8 c r e d i t d e g r e e , a n d h e h a s

10a c c u m u l a t e d a p p r o x i m a t e l y $ 2 0 , 0 0 0 i n s t u d e n t d e b t .

11 In Augusta, South Carolina, Lauren Duncan

12i s c u r r e n t l y w o r k i n g a s a n u r s e ' s a i d e a t P e o p l e ' s

13H o s p i t a l . She wants to attend college and then

14n u r s i n g s c h o o l , b u t c a n n o t a f f o r d t o q u i t w o r k i n g .

15W h e n s h e d e c i d e d t h a t s h e c o u l d n o t a f f o r d t o

16a t t e n d a l a r g e f o u r - y e a r u n i v e r s i t y , s h e l o o k e d

17i n t o n e a r b y c o m m u n i t y c o l l e g e s . What she found

18w a s t h a t t h e i n s u f f i c i e n t a m o u n t o f f i n a n c i a l a i d

19a v a i l a b l e t o h e r w h e n s h e w a s c o n s i d e r i n g t h e

20f o u r - y e a r u n i v e r s i t y w a s n o t e v e n o f f e r e d i f s h e

21a t t e n d e d a c o m m u n i t y c o l l e g e p a r t - t i m e .

22 Between the meager financial aid available

23a n d t h e c o s t o f a t t e n d i n g s c h o o l , p a y i n g

24f o r a v e h i c l e t o c o m m u t e t o s c h o o l , a n d a d d i t i o n a l

713

714
715
716 144
717

1l i v i n g e x p e n s e s , L a u r e n h a s f o u n d n o o p t i o n

2b u t t o c o n t i n u e w o r k i n g a s a n u r s e ' s a i d e a n d

3f o r e g o s e e k i n g a h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n . My friend

4L a u r e n i s 2 3 y e a r s o l d .

5 Ladies and gentlemen, these are my

6f r i e n d s , a n d I h a v e m a n y m o r e l i k e t h e m a c r o s s t h e

7c o u n t r y i n s i m i l a r p r e d i c a m e n t s . I stand here

8t o d a y i n t h e i r p l a c e b e c a u s e I a m f o r t u n a t e e n o u g h

9t o h a v e t h e t i m e a n d e d u c a t i o n t h a t t h e y a r e s t i l l

10s t r u g g l i n g f o r . The names, universities,

11l o c a t i o n s , a n d m a j o r s a r e a l l d i f f e r e n t , b u t t h e

12f i n a n c i a l h a r d s h i p r e m a i n s d i s m a l l y u n i v e r s a l .

13 Our current financial aid system is

14f a i l i n g t o a s s i s t i n n e w a r e a s t h a t h a v e d e v e l o p e d

15s i n c e i t s i n c e p t i o n . New considerations must be

16t a k e n i n t o a c c o u n t a n d a n o v e r w h e l m i n g a m o u n t o f

17f i n a n c i a l a i d i s a v a i l a b l e o n l y t o f u l l - t i m e

18s t u d e n t s . At a time when students choose to work

19a n d a t t e n d c o l l e g e p a r t - t i m e s i m p l y t o a t t e m p t t o

20r e d u c e t h e a m o u n t o f d e b t t h e y i n c u r .

21 Most community colleges are, by their very

22n a t u r e , c o m m u t e r c a m p u s e s , a n d w e h a v e n o

23m e a s u r e m e n t s i n p l a c e t o a s c e r t a i n t h e f i n a n c i a l

24b u r d e n o w n i n g , o p e r a t i n g , a n d m a i n t a i n i n g a

718

719
720
721 145
722

1v e h i c l e n e c e s s a r y t o g e t t o a n d f r o m c l a s s e s , o r ,

2m o r e a p p r o p r i a t e l y , t o g e t b e t w e e n c l a s s a n d w o r k .

3 Although the advertised price of a

4c o m m u t e r c o l l e g e m a y b e l e s s t h a n t h a t o f a l a r g e r

5u n i v e r s i t y , t h e s t u d e n t s t i l l f a c e s t h e s a m e l a r g e

6e x p e n s e s f o r t e x t b o o k s a n d s u p p l i e s . If a

7s t u d e n t d o e s m a n a g e t o r u n t h e g a u n t l e t a n d f i n i s h

8w i t h a d e g r e e , h e o r s h e i s g u a r a n t e e d t o h a v e

9a h e f t y l o a n r e p a y m e n t b e a r i n g d o w n o n t h e m s i x

10m o n t h s f o l l o w i n g g r a d u a t i o n , o r t h e y m a y s t i l l

11b e s e a r c h i n g f o r a j o b t h a t p a y s e n o u g h t o m a k e

12t h e n e c e s s a r y l o a n p a y m e n t s .

13 The solutions to these problems begins

14w i t h a m o r e c o m p r e h e n s i v e F A F S A a p p l i c a t i o n a n d

15d e t e r m i n a t i o n p r o c e s s . If the additional expenses

16i n c u r r e d b y s t u d e n t s a r e n o t i n c l u d e d i n t h e

17u n i v e r s i t i e s ' e x p e c t e d c o s t a n a l y s i s - - i f t h e s e

18a d d i t i o n a l e x p e n s e s a r e a c c o u n t e d f o r , a m o r e

19a c c u r a t e d e s c r i p t i o n o f n e e d w i l l f o l l o w .

20 Secondly, the growing number of students

21t h a t c h o o s e t o w o r k f u l l - t i m e t o h e l p c o v e r t h e

22c o s t s o f t h e i r p a r t - t i m e e d u c a t i o n n e e d t o b e

23a d d r e s s e d a n d g i v e n a s s i s t a n c e . Whereas

24t h e t h i n k i n g i n t h e p a s t m a y h a v e b e e n t h a t

723

724
725
726 146
727

1w o r k i n g s t u d e n t s n e e d l e s s f i n a n c i a l a i d d u e t o

2t h e i r i n c o m e , t h e o p p o s i t e i s m o r e c o m m o n l y t r u e

3t o d a y .

4 More financial aid for part-time students

5w i l l h e l p u s t o s t o p p u n i s h i n g t h o s e w h o c h o o s e t o

6w o r k t h e h a r d e s t t o a c h i e v e a p o s t - s e c o n d a r y

7e d u c a t i o n .

8 Thank you.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Trevor Montgomery.

11 TREVOR MONTGOMERY: Hello. My name is

12T r e v o r M o n t g o m e r y . I am also a student at the

13U n i v e r s i t y o f I l l i n o i s C h i c a g o . I am a senior. I

14a m a p a s t S t u d e n t B o d y P r e s i d e n t a t t h e

15U n i v e r s i t y , a n d I a m a l s o t h e f o u n d e r a n d

16P r e s i d e n t o f t h e S t u d e n t L o b b y i n g A s s o c i a t i o n . I

17w o u l d l i k e t o t h a n k a l l o f y o u f o r t h i s

18o p p o r t u n i t y t o s p e a k h e r e t o d a y .

19 The Commission on the Future of Higher

20E d u c a t i o n r e p o r t s t a t e s t h a t t u i t i o n a t p u b l i c

21f o u r - y e a r c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s h a s i n c r e a s e d

22b y 5 1 p e r c e n t o v e r t h e l a s t t e n y e a r s a f t e r

23a d j u s t i n g f o r i n f l a t i o n . Many people blame these

24i n c r e a s e s o n t h e l a c k o f s t a t e f u n d i n g f o r p u b l i c

728

729
730
731 147
732

1c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s . I am one of these

2p e o p l e .

3 There once was a time when an individual

4c o u l d g o t o a l o c a l s t a t e - f u n d e d u n i v e r s i t y , e a r n

5a d e g r e e , a n d g o o n t o w o r k a n o b l e c a r e e r a s a

6t e a c h e r , s o c i a l w o r k e r , o r a n y t h i n g t h a t t h e y

7d r e a m e d o f , w i t h o u t b e i n g h e l d b a c k b y t h e b u r d e n

8o f s t u d e n t d e b t . This time is no more.

9 Currently, students that graduate from

10l o c a l s t a t e - f u n d e d c o l l e g e s f a c e t h e s a m e

11d e b t b u r d e n a s s t u d e n t s g r a d u a t i n g f r o m p r i v a t e

12s c h o o l s . When comparing Northwestern University,

13a p r i v a t e i n s t i t u t i o n i n E v a n s t o n , I l l i n o i s , a n d

14t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f I l l i n o i s , C h i c a g o , a s t a t e

15f u n d e d u n i v e r s i t y , I f o u n d t h a t a l m o s t t h e s a m e

16p e r c e n t a g e - - a c t u a l l y 4 5 p e r c e n t f r o m U I C a n d 4 6

17p e r c e n t f r o m N o r t h w e s t e r n - - g r a d u a t e w i t h s t u d e n t

18d e b t . Of those students, the average student with

19d e b t f r o m N o r t h w e s t e r n g r a d u a t e s w i t h a b o u t

20$ 1 8 , 0 0 0 , w h i l e t h e a v e r a g e U I C g r a d u a t e w i t h d e b t

21w a l k s a w a y w i t h a b o u t $ 1 7 , 0 0 0 i n d e b t .

22 I think it is hard to believe that

23s t u d e n t s f r o m a s t a t e - f u n d e d s c h o o l , w i t h t h e

24m i s s i o n o f a c c e s s i b i l i t y a n d a f f o r d a b i l i t y c a n

733

734
735
736 148
737

1w a l k a w a y w i t h t h e s a m e a v e r a g e d e b t a s s t u d e n t s

2f r o m a p r e s t i g i o u s p r i v a t e u n i v e r s i t y . This

3c l e a r l y d e m o n s t r a t e s h o w t h e l a c k o f s t a t e f u n d i n g

4i s r o b b i n g s t u d e n t s o f t h e r i g h t t o a n a f f o r d a b l e

5p u b l i c e d u c a t i o n .

6 I think it is obvious that, as tuition

7r a t e s i n c r e a s e s i g n i f i c a n t l y , s t u d e n t s f r o m b o t h

8p u b l i c a n d p r i v a t e c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t i e s a r e

9f o r c e d t o r e l y m o r e o n F e d e r a l g r a n t s a n d l o a n

10p r o g r a m s . Students need affordable loans now more

11t h a n e v e r , b u t s a d l y , a n o t h e r f a c t t h a t w e a r e a l l

12f a m i l i a r i s t h a t r e c e n t l y , F e b r u a r y , t h e F e d e r a l

13g o v e r n m e n t c u t m o r e t h a n $ 1 2 b i l l i o n t o F e d e r a l

14s t u d e n t l o a n p r o g r a m s . This was the largest

15s i n g l e c u t t o s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a i d i n h i s t o r y ,

16a n d i t c a m e a t o n e o f t h e w o r s t t i m e s f o r

17s t u d e n t s . The increasing cost of college, coupled

18w i t h t h e i n c r e a s i n g l a c k o f a f f o r d a b l e s t u d e n t

19l o a n s , a r e b e i n g f e l t b y m a n y p e o p l e , l i k e m y

20f r i e n d , S a r a .

21 My friend Sara attended a state-funded

22u n i v e r s i t y i n S o u t h e r n I l l i n o i s . She received a

23b a c h e l o r ’ s d e g r e e . She enrolled in another state-

24f u n d e d s c h o o l w h e r e s h e r e c e i v e d h e r m a s t e r ’ s

738

739
740
741 149
742

1d e g r e e i n s o c i a l w o r k . After completing six years

2o f e d u c a t i o n , S a r a w a s r e a d y t o f u l f i l l h e r d r e a m

3o f b e c o m i n g a s o c i a l w o r k e r i n C h i c a g o . But even

4w i t h t h e h e l p o f t h e I l l i n o i s V e t e r a n s G r a n t ,

5S a r a ’ s l o a n d e b t w a s o v e r $ 3 5 , 0 0 0 . She knew that

6s h e w o u l d n o t m a k e a l o t o f m o n e y a s a s o c i a l

7w o r k e r , b u t s h e d i d n o t w a n t t o l e t h e r l o a n d e b t

8s t a n d i n t h e w a y o f h e r d r e a m .

9 After only a few months of working, Sara

10w a s a l r e a d y s t a r t i n g t o m a k e a d i f f e r e n c e , b u t

11a f t e r s h e b e g a n t o p a y o n h e r s t u d e n t l o a n s , S a r a

12w a s f o r c e d t o q u i t h e r j o b b e c a u s e o f h e r

13u n m a n a g e a b l e d e b t . She now works at a higher

14p a y i n g j o b , w h i c h a l l o w s h e r t o m a n a g e h e r s t u d e n t

15l o a n s , b u t s h e i s n o t d o i n g w h a t s h e d r e a m e d o f .

16A n d t h e s a d d e s t p a r t i s t h a t t h e e x t r e m e l y n e e d y

17p e o p l e t h a t s h e l o v e d a n d w o r k e d w i t h w i l l s u f f e r

18f o r t h i s m o r e t h a n a n y o n e , b e c a u s e t h e y h a v e l o s t

19s o m e o n e t h a t t r u l y c a r e d .

20 After hearing a story like Sara’s, I feel

21t h a t t h e r e a r e m a n y t h i n g s t h a t s h o u l d b e d o n e t o

22l i g h t e n t h e b u r d e n o f s t u d e n t d e b t , s u c h a s

23p r e s e r v i n g f i x e d - r a t e l o a n c o n s o l i d a t i o n , l o w e r i n g

24t h e i n t e r e s t r a t e c a p , e l i m i n a t i n g o r i g i n a t i o n

743

744
745
746 150
747

1f e e s , a n d e x p a n d i n g l o a n f o r g i v e n e s s o n l o a n s , a l l

2o f w h i c h c o u l d b e c h a n g e d a n d m a i n t a i n e d w i t h i n

3t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t .

4 Federal grants can also be paramount in

5r e l i e v i n g t h e b u r d e n o f s t u d e n t d e b t . The

6A c a d e m i c C o m p e t i t i v e n e s s G r a n t a n d t h e S M A R T G r a n t

7a r e g r e a t n e w p r o g r a m s , b u t t h e r e i s a l s o a n e e d

8f o r i n c r e a s e d g r a n t a i d t h a t i s a c c e s s i b l e b y a l l

9s t u d e n t s . The Pell Grant has been the cornerstone

10o f l o w - a n d m i d d l e - i n c o m e s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a i d

11p a c k e t s , a n d h a s h e l p e d m a n y t o a t t a i n w h a t r e a l l y

12s h o u l d b e t h e r i g h t o f p o s t s e c o n d a r y e d u c a t i o n .

13 However, the current maximum Pell Grant of

14$ 4 , 0 5 0 o n l y c o v e r s a b o u t 4 4 p e r c e n t o f t h e a v e r a g e

15i n - s t a t e t u i t i o n a t p u b l i c f o u r - y e a r c o l l e g e s .

16A n d , a s a r e c i p i e n t o f t h e g r a n t , I k n o w a l l t o o

17w e l l t h a t t h i s f a i l s t o c o v e r t h e r i s i n g c o s t o f

18t u i t i o n .

19 The Commission on the Future of Higher

20E d u c a t i o n m a d e a r e c o m m e n d a t i o n t o i n c r e a s e

21F e d e r a l s p e n d i n g o n n e e d - b a s e d a i d a n d i n c r e a s e

22t h e a v e r a g e P e l l G r a n t , s o t h a t i t c o v e r s 7 0

23p e r c e n t o f t h e a v e r a g e i n - s t a t e t u i t i o n a t a

24p u b l i c f o u r - y e a r c o l l e g e . This would be a major

748

749
750
751 151
752

1s t e p i n r e d u c i n g t h e b u r d e n o f s t u d e n t d e b t a n d

2m a k i n g c o l l e g e m o r e a c c e s s i b l e t o e v e r y o n e .

3M y s e l f , a n d s t u d e n t s f r o m a l l o v e r t h e M i d w e s t

4e n c o u r a g e t h e C o m m i s s i o n t o w h o l e h e a r t e d l y p u r s u e

5m a k i n g t h i s r e c o m m e n d a t i o n a r e a l i t y .

6 I also would like to ask each of you to

7c o n s i d e r t h a t , o u t o f f i v e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s t h a t

8m y s e l f a n d m a n y o t h e r s t u d e n t s m a y h a v e r e f e r r e d

9t o t o d a y , t h e s t u d e n t s i n t h e M i d w e s t a n d a r o u n d

10t h e c o u n t r y f e e l t h a t t h e i m p l e m e n t a t i o n o f t h e s e

11r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s w o u l d h e l p s i g n i f i c a n t l y r e d u c e

12t h e b u r d e n o f s t u d e n t d e b t i n t h e l i v e s o f m a n y

13A m e r i c a n s . We would ask that you would consider

14e a c h o f t h e m .

15 I ask that you consider one, limiting

16s t u d e n t l o a n r e p a y m e n t t o i n c o m e - r e l a t e d

17p r o p o r t i o n s o n a l l l o a n s .

18 Two, I ask that you consider taking family

19s i z e i n t o a c c o u n t w i t h s t u d e n t l o a n r e p a y m e n t

20p l a n s , r e c o g n i z i n g t h a t b o r r o w e r s w i t h c h i l d r e n

21h a v e l e s s i n c o m e t o b u d g e t f o r m o n t h l y l o a n

22p a y m e n t s .

23 Three, I ask that you cancel student loans

24a f t e r 2 0 y e a r s o f g o o d f a i t h p a y m e n t , b r i n g i n g

753

754
755
756 152
757

1r e l i e f t o b o r r o w e r s t h a t h a v e d o n e e v e r y t h i n g t h e y

2c o u l d , i n c l u d i n g p a y i n g o n t i m e a n d p a y i n g i n

3f u l l , b u t a r e s t i l l l i v i n g u n d e r t h e b u r d e n o f

4s t u d e n t d e b t .

5 Four, I ask that you consider suspending

6i n t e r e s t o n t h e l o a n s o f i n d i v i d u a l s w h o a r e

7e n r o l l e d i n t h e e c o n o m i c h a r d s h i p p r o g r a m .

8 And five, I ask that you consider

9s i m p l i f y i n g t h e p r o c e s s o f a p p l y i n g f o r t h e

10e c o n o m i c h a r d s h i p p r o g r a m .

11 As a student with over $15,000 in loan

12d e b t m y s e l f , I a s k t h a t e a c h o f y o u t a k e t h e s e

13c o n s i d e r a t i o n s a n d o p i n i o n s , a l o n g w i t h t h e

14r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s o f m y f e l l o w s t u d e n t s , i n t o

15a c c o u n t .

16 I would sincerely like to thank all of you

17f o r t h i s o p p o r t u n i t y , a n d i t h a s b e e n m y h o n o r .

18T h a n k y o u .

19 DAN MADZELAN: Robert Skorczewski.

20 ROBERT SKORCZEWSKI: My name is Robert

21S k o r c z e w s k i , a n d I a m f r o m t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

22I l l i n o i s a t S p r i n g f i e l d . I am the Sergeant-at-

23A r m s a t t h e S t u d e n t G o v e r n m e n t A s s o c i a t i o n t h e r e .

24 First of all, thank you for having these

758

759
760
761 153
762

1h e a r i n g s a n d g i v i n g m e t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o s p e a k .

2 With that, let me say that, at this time

3i n h i s t o r y , w e s e e m t o b e a t a p o i n t t h a t w i l l

4d e f i n e u s f o r y e a r s t o c o m e . It could be said

5t h a t o u r g r e a t n a t i o n s t a n d s a t a c r o s s r o a d . As

6w i t h a l l c r o s s r o a d s , w e m u s t c h o o s e a p a t h . The

7p a t h t h a t I h a v e c h o s e n f o r m y s e l f i s o n e o f

8p u b l i c s e r v i c e .

9 I have spent my college career serving my

10f e l l o w s t u d e n t s a s a m e n t o r , a t u t o r , a n d a s a

11m e m b e r o f t h e S t u d e n t G o v e r n m e n t A s s o c i a t i o n .

12A f t e r I g r a d u a t e , I p l a n o n s e r v i n g m y c o u n t r y i n

13t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s N a v y . One day, I hope to serve

14m y f e l l o w c i t i z e n s a s a n e l e c t e d o f f i c i a l .

15 Public service is one of the greatest

16i n v e s t m e n t s a p e r s o n c a n m a k e i n h i m s e l f a n d h i s

17c o m m u n i t y . It pains me, therefore, to know that

18s t u d e n t s a r e b e i n g f o r c e d t o f o r e g o s e r v i c e

19o p p o r t u n i t i e s a f t e r t h e y g r a d u a t e i n f a v o r o f

20h i g h e r p a y i n g j o b s e l s e w h e r e . Many must do this

21b e c a u s e o f t h e n e e d t o r e p a y t h e i r s t u d e n t l o a n s .

22 Often, graduates simply cannot afford to

23t a k e l e s s e r p a y i n g j o b s , b u t j o b s t h a t a r e v e r y

24m u c h n e e d e d a n d s e r v e t h e p u b l i c . Each year we

763

764
765
766 154
767

1s e e s t a t e f u n d i n g f o r o u r s c h o o l s d e c r e a s e . This

2t r a n s l a t e s t o t u i t i o n i n c r e a s e s . Students must

3t a k e o u t m o r e l o a n s t o c o v e r t h e s e i n c r e a s e s .

4 I am not here to ask you to make tuition

5i n c r e a s e s g o a w a y . Some increases are necessary

6t o m a i n t a i n t h e q u a l i t y o f o u r s c h o o l s . I am,

7h o w e v e r , a s k i n g t h a t y o u d o w h a t i s i n y o u r p o w e r

8t o e n s u r e t h a t s t u d e n t s a r e n o t f o r c e d t o s u f f e r

9o v e r w h e l m i n g b u r d e n s t h e i r e n t i r e l i v e s i n o r d e r

10t o g e t t h a t q u a l i t y e d u c a t i o n .

11 Many have mentioned the five-point plan

12t h a t w i l l h e l p a l l e v i a t e t h e b u r d e n t h a t s t u d e n t

13l o a n s c a n b e f o r s t u d e n t s . Please take our

14t e s t i m o n i e s t o h e a r t , a n d h e l p s t u d e n t s w i t h

15l o a n s , w h e r e h e l p i s s o d e s p e r a t e l y n e e d e d .

16 Today, I am here with you. My brother, a

17m e m b e r o f t h e A r m y N a t i o n a l G u a r d R e s e r v e s , w i l l

18b e a t S o u t h e r n I l l i n o i s U n i v e r s i t y i n

19E d w a r d s v i l l e , w h e r e h e i s a t t e n d i n g s c h o o l .

20O b v i o u s l y , p u b l i c s e r v i c e i s h i g h l y v a l u e d i n m y

21f a m i l y .

22 My father will be at Carlisle High School.

23H e w o r k e d 1 8 y e a r s i n a c o a l m i n e . When the mine

24s h u t d o w n , h e r e t u r n e d t o s c h o o l , a t t h e

768

769
770
771 155
772

1U n i v e r s i t y o f I l l i n o i s i n C a r b o n d a l e , t o g e t a

2t e a c h i n g d e g r e e . Now, he is taking classes online

3t o w a r d s a m a s t e r ’ s i n l i b r a r y s c i e n c e s , s o h e c a n

4k e e p w o r k i n g a t t h e s c h o o l .

5 My sister will be Minneapolis, following

6h e r d r e a m o f b e i n g a w r i t e r . She hopes to attend

7a c r e a t i v e a r t s s c h o o l t h e r e n e x t y e a r , b u t m u s t

8m o v e t h e r e , f i r s t , b e c a u s e f o l l o w i n g h e r d r e a m

9w o u l d b e t o o e x p e n s i v e w i t h o u t r e s i d e n c y . The

10l o a n s w o u l d s i m p l y b e t o o m u c h .

11 My mother will be working at Washington

12C o u n t y H o s p i t a l t o d a y a n d , m o s t l i k e l y , t h i s

13w e e k e n d . She will be working extra shifts at a

14h o s p i t a l i n a n e a r b y c i t y .

15 Student loans affect my family very much,

16w h i c h i s w h y I f e e l s o p a s s i o n a t e l y a b o u t t h i s

17c a u s e . You could say that my brother and I are

18l u c k y t h a t o u r p a t h s h a v e l e d u s t o s e r v e i n t h e

19m i l i t a r y , w h i c h w i l l h e l p u s p a y f o r o u r

20e d u c a t i o n . I will be graduating this spring with

21a l m o s t $ 2 0 , 0 0 0 i n d e b t , b u t I h a v e t h e s e c u r i t y o f

22a g e n e r o u s l o a n r e p a y m e n t o p t i o n w i t h t h e N a v y .

23T h e r e s t o f m y f a m i l y i s j u s t a s h a r d w o r k i n g ,

24t h o u g h , a n d w i l l h a v e t o c o n t i n u e t o b e

773

774
775
776 156
777

1h a r d w o r k i n g t o d e a l w i t h t h e d e b t f o r s t u d e n t

2l o a n s .

3 I am not telling you this to look for

4p i t y . I am not asking you for a handout. I am

5n o t h e r e t o a s k f o r m o r e s c h o l a r s h i p s o r g r a n t

6m o n e y f o r m y o w n e d u c a t i o n . I am asking that you

7m a k e l o a n s l e s s o f a l i f e l o n g b u r d e n f o r s t u d e n t s

8a l l o v e r t h e c o u n t r y . The rewards would be truly

9w o r t h w h i l e .

10 Imagine more teachers and social workers.

11I m a g i n e m o r e g r a d u a t e s t a k i n g a y e a r o r t w o t o

12w o r k f o r a n o n - p r o f i t o r g a n i z a t i o n . Imagine a

13m u c h s t r o n g e r c o m m u n i t y .

14 So we stand here at a crossroad. Down one

15p a t h , I s e e a p a t h o f d e b t , a p a t h o f w o r k i n g a

16j o b t h a t i s n o t r e w a r d i n g , b u t m u s t b e t a k e n t o

17r e p a y s t u d e n t l o a n s . It is a path of graduates

18w h o m a y n e e d t o t a k e a s e c o n d j o b t o m a k e e n d s

19m e e t . It is not a path that is desirable for

20s t u d e n t s .

21 Down the other path, I see a world of

22f u l f i l l m e n t . This path allows us to explore our

23d e s i r e s t o s e r v e o u r f e l l o w m e n a n d w o m e n , a n d n o t

24h a v e t o w o r r y a b o u t a n u n b e a r a b l e l o a n r e p a y m e n t

778

779
780
781 157
782

1s c h e d u l e . I ask that you please make this second,

2m o r e f u l f i l l i n g p a t h a v a i l a b l e t o s t u d e n t s a l l

3a c r o s s A m e r i c a .

4 On Monday, I sat at a table asking

5s t u d e n t s t o s u p p o r t o u r r e q u e s t f o r a c h a n g e i n

6s t u d e n t l o a n r e p a y m e n t s . In the short time I was

7t h e r e I r e c e i v e d a l m o s t 1 0 0 s i g n a t u r e s . I was one

8s t u d e n t w h o a s k e d f o r s u p p o r t f o r a f e w h o u r s o n e

9d a y , a n d t h e r e s p o n s e w a s o v e r w h e l m i n g . This is

10t r u l y a n i s s u e t h a t i s o f g r e a t i m p o r t a n c e t o

11s t u d e n t s , f a c u l t y , s t a f f , a d m i n i s t r a t o r s , p a r e n t s ,

12a n d a l u m n i a l i k e .

13 Thank you for this opportunity to speak

14a b o u t a n i s s u e t h a t i s v e r y i m p o r t a n t t o s o m a n y

15o f u s .

16 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

17 DAN MADZELAN: Bill Church.

18 BILL CHURCH: Good afternoon. My name is

19B i l l C h u r c h , a n d I w i l l a l s o b e s p e a k i n g

20e x t e m p o r a n e o u s l y t o y o u t h i s a f t e r n o o n .

21 Based on what I have heard this morning, I

22h a v e j o t t e d d o w n a f e w n o t e s , s o p l e a s e b e a r w i t h

23m e .

24 I am a Commissioner with the National

783

784
785
786 158
787

1A c c r e d i t i n g C o m m i s s i o n o f C o s m e t o l o g y A r t s a n d

2S c i e n c e s , a n d a l s o a s c h o o l o w n e r , a n d , a s s u c h ,

3r e p r e s e n t t h e p r o p r i e t a r y s e c t o r o f p o s t s e c o n d a r y

4e d u c a t i o n - - t h e p e o p l e w h o a r e t a x p a y i n g . Of

5c o u r s e , p a y i n g t a x e s t h e o r e t i c a l l y d e p e n d s o n

6w h e t h e r o r n o t y o u m a k e a p r o f i t , a n d w e c e r t a i n l y

7h o p e w e c a n d o t h a t .

8 We read with great interest the

9C o m m i s s i o n ’ s r e p o r t a b o u t a c c e s s a n d a f f o r d a b i l i t y

10a n d q u a l i t y , a n d i n n o v a t i o n , a n d a c c o u n t a b i l i t y .

11F o r t h e m o s t p a r t , w e a r e i n a g r e e m e n t w i t h t h a t

12r e p o r t . So much of what is contained in the

13r e p o r t a r e t h i n g s t h a t w e h a v e b e e n d o i n g f o r a

14l o n g t i m e i n t h e p r o p r i e t a r y s e c t o r , e s p e c i a l l y i n

15t h e a r e a o f a c c o u n t a b i l i t y - - c o m p l e t i o n r a t e s ,

16l i c e n s i n g r a t e s , a n d p l a c e m e n t r a t e s - - w e h a v e

17s e v e r e t h r e s h o l d s t h a t w e n e e d t o a d h e r e t o .

18 We also need to even share with our

19p o t e n t i a l s t u d e n t s a s w e e n r o l l t h e i n f o r m a t i o n

20r e g a r d i n g s a f e t y i s s u e s a n d s a l a r y i s s u e s . All of

21t h a t i s d i s c l o s e d u p f r o n t . I must tell you that,

22b a s e d o n t h e s c h o o l s t h a t c o m e a c r o s s m y d e s k a s a

23c o m m i s s i o n e r , I c a n a s s u r e y o u t h a t s c h o o l o w n e r s

24a n d / o r t h e i r a d m i s s i o n s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s a r e n o t ,

788

789
790
791 159
792

1i n f a c t , e n r o l l i n g s t u d e n t s t o m a k e t h e i r

2c o m p l e t i o n r a t e s l o o k g o o d , n o t b a s e d o n s o m e o f

3t h e c o m p l e t i o n r a t e s t h a t I s e e . I just do not

4t h i n k t h a t i s h a p p e n i n g .

5 Of course, in our schools, we must improve

6o u r o u t c o m e s , a n d w e d o t h a t t h r o u g h a n u m b e r o f

7d i f f e r e n t m e a n s , n o t t h e l e a s t o f w h i c h a r e

8s t u d e n t s u r v e y s a n d e m p l o y e r s u r v e y s a n d a d v i s o r y

9c o m m i t t e e s , a l l a s s e s s i n g c o n s t a n t l y o u r o u t c o m e .

10S o i t i s s o m e t h i n g t h a t w e h a v e b e e n d o i n g f o r a

11l o n g , l o n g t i m e . Some of that which is contained

12i n t h e c o m m i s s i o n r e p o r t w a s v e r y , v e r y r e f r e s h i n g

13t o u s .

14 Very quickly, some of the issues that we

15w o u l d l i k e t o s e e , a n d I r e a l i z e t h a t t h i s i s

16p r i m a r i l y a b o u t f i n a n c i a l a i d , a n d I m u s t t e l l y o u

17t h a t t h e f i n a n c i a l a i d p r o g r a m , s p e c i f i c a l l y w i t h

18r e g a r d t o l o a n s , d o e s n e e d t o b e r e v a m p e d , i f n o t

19t h e l e a s t o f w h i c h i s t h i s s t r e a m l i n i n g o f t h e

20F A F S A . We are subjected in our proprietary sector

21t o s o m e r a t h e r s t r i c t c o m p o s i t e s c o r e s t h a t w e

22m u s t m e e t a t t h e e n d o f e v e r y y e a r b a s e d o n a n n u a l

23a u d i t s t h a t w e g e t , o r t h a t w e r e c e i v e .

24 I must tell you this, most healthy

793

794
795
796 160
797

1c o r p o r a t i o n s i n t h i s c o u n t r y w i l l h a v e a v e r y ,

2v e r y d i f f i c u l t t i m e m e e t i n g t h o s e c o m p o s i t e

3s c o r e s , b u t s o m e h o w , y e a r a f t e r y e a r , w e a r e a b l e

4t o d o t h a t . Those schools that do not must get a

5L e t t e r o f C r e d i t . We would love to see that

6e l i m i n a t e d , i f p o s s i b l e .

7 The issue of default rates, which plagued

8p r o p r i e t a r y s c h o o l s f o r y e a r s s e e m s t o b e u n d e r

9c o n t r o l , b u t , o n c e a g a i n , t h e s e g m e n t o f t h e

10p o p u l a t i o n t h a t w e t e n d t o s e r v e a r e t h e o n e s t h a t

11a r e l e a s t l i k e l y t o p a y t h o s e l o a n s b a c k . We do

12s e e m t o h a v e a b e t t e r h a n d l e o n t h a t , b u t w e w o u l d

13l o v e t o s e e t h a t e l i m i n a t e d a s w e l l .

14 The big thing with the public, private,

15a n d p r o p r i e t a r y s e c t o r s , a s w e s e e i t , i s e q u i t y .

16W e w o u l d l o v e t o s e e w h a t e v e r r u l e s a n d

17r e g u l a t i o n s , w h a t e v e r o u t c o m e s , w h a t e v e r

18t h r e s h o l d s t h a t a r e t h r o w n u p o n t h e i n d u s t r y b e

19d i v i d e d i n e q u i t a b l e a m o u n t s t o a l l t h r e e o f t h o s e

20p o r t i o n s o f e d u c a t i o n . In other words, measure us

21a l l t h e s a m e w a y . That is all we are asking.

22 Quite frankly, I would encourage you

23s t r o n g l y t o i n v i t e t o t h e t a b l e o f n e g o t i a t e d

24r u l e m a k i n g a s m a n y p r o p r i e t a r y s c h o o l s a s

798

799
800
801 161
802

1p o s s i b l e . I really think we have something to

2o f f e r .

3 Thank you.

4 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

5 DAN MADZELAN: Cynthia Davenport.

6 CYNTHIA DAVENPORT: Good afternoon. My

7n a m e i s C y n t h i a D a v e n p o r t , a n d I a m t h e E x e c u t i v e

8D i r e c t o r o f A S P A , t h e A s s o c i a t i o n o f S p e c i a l i z e d

9a n d P r o f e s s i o n a l A c c r e d i t o r s .

10 ASPA is a membership organization

11r e p r e s e n t i n g 5 1 d i f f e r e n t a c c r e d i t i n g g r o u p s a n d

12n e a r l y t h a t m a n y p r o f e s s i o n a l f i e l d s a n d

13d i s c i p l i n e s . Together, the members of ASPA

14a c c r e d i t r o u g h l y 1 5 , 0 0 0 p r o g r a m s , s c h o o l s , o r

15u n i t s , a n d t a k e p r i d e i n t h e r o l e t h e y p l a y i n

16h e l p i n g t o e n s u r e t h e q u a l i t y o f e d u c a t i o n

17p r o v i d e d t o t h e m a n y t h o u s a n d s o f s t u d e n t s i n

18t h o s e p r o g r a m s .

19 While many of the programs accredited by

20m e m b e r s o f A S P A a r e h o u s e d i n i n s t i t u t i o n s t h a t

21a r e a c c r e d i t e d b y o u r n a t i o n a l o r r e g i o n a l

22c o l l e a g u e s , s o m e m e m b e r s o f A S P A a r e r e c o g n i z e d b y

23t h e S e c r e t a r y o f E d u c a t i o n a s T i t l e I V

24g a t e k e e p e r s , e s p e c i a l l y f o r s i n g l e - p u r p o s e ,

803

804
805
806 162
807

1f r e e s t a n d i n g i n s t i t u t i o n s . Many others are

2r e c o g n i z e d a s p r o g r a m a c c r e d i t o r s f o r o t h e r

3f e d e r a l p u r p o s e s .

4 I appreciate the opportunity to appear at

5t h i s h e a r i n g t o d a y . The report of the Commission

6o n t h e F u t u r e o f H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n w a s d i s c u s s e d a t

7l e n g t h d u r i n g a r e c e n t A S P A m e m b e r s h i p m e e t i n g ,

8w h i c h h e l p s m e t o s p e a k o n b e h a l f o f t h e m e m b e r s

9o f A S P A . First, ASPA is in agreement sent in

10e a r l y S e p t e m b e r b y t h o s e m e m b e r s o f t h e C o m m i t t e e

11o n H e a l t h , E d u c a t i o n , L a b o r , a n d P e n s i o n s w h o

12e x p r e s s e d c o n c e r n r e g a r d i n g i n c l u s i o n o f

13r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s f r o m t h e r e p o r t o f t h e C o m m i s s i o n

14i n n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g , b e f o r e a n y l e g i s l a t i v e

15a c t i o n h a s b e e n t a k e n . We have a strong

16p r e f e r e n c e r a t h e r t h a n t w o r o u n d s o f n e g o t i a t i o n ,

17w h i c h w o u l d b e b e s t h e l d , w e b e l i e v e , a f t e r

18r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n o f t h e H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t i s

19c o n c l u d e d .

20 Next, we think that it is possible to

21a g r e e w i t h t h e c o n c e r n s s t a t e d i n t h e e a r l y p a g e s

22o f t h e r e p o r t w i t h o u t a g r e e i n g w i t h m a n y o f t h e

23p r o p o s a l s i n t h e l a t e r s e c t i o n s . Accreditation

24h a s a l o n g h i s t o r y o f s e r v i n g t h e p u b l i c i n t e r e s t .

808

809
810
811 163
812

1I n f a c t , s p e c i a l i z e d a c c r e d i t a t i o n w a s d e v e l o p e d

2s t a r t i n g i n t h e e a r l y 1 9 0 0 s b e c a u s e o f a n e e d t o

3b e s u r e t h a t t h e p u b l i c w a s w e l l - s e r v e d b y

4c o m p e t e n t p r a c t i t i o n e r s i n f i e l d s t h a t r a n g e d f r o m

5m e d i c i n e t o b u s i n e s s t o l a w , l i b r a r y s c i e n c e ,

6m u s i c , a n d s u b s e q u e n t l y t o t h e m a n y p r o f e s s i o n a l

7f i e l d s a n d d i s c i p l i n e s t h a t c o n t i n u e t o s e r v e t h e

8p u b l i c t o d a y .

9 The focus on ensuring the development of

10c o m p e t e n t p r a c t i t i o n e r s m e a n s t h a t s p e c i a l i z e d

11a c c r e d i t i n g o r g a n i z a t i o n s h a v e l o n g b e e n

12i n t e r e s t e d i n r e s u l t s a n d s t u d e n t l e a r n i n g

13o u t c o m e s . However, they also recognize that

14c o m p o s i t e o u t c o m e s a r e a t r a i l i n g i n d i c a t o r , a n d

15n o t a n i n d i c a t o r o f i n d i v i d u a l s t u d e n t

16a c h i e v e m e n t . Accreditors focus on institutions

17a n d p r o g r a m s p r o v i d i n g c o n d i t i o n s t h a t w i l l e n a b l e

18s t u d e n t s t o s u c c e e d , b u t t h e y a l s o r e c o g n i z e t h a t

19s t u d e n t s m u s t a c c e p t s o m e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r t h e i r

20o w n l e a r n i n g a s p a r t o f t h e p a r t n e r s h i p t h a t

21c r e a t e s t h a t s u c c e s s .

22 In part because of their strong roots in

23p u b l i c s e r v i c e , m e m b e r s o f A S P A b e l i e v e t h a t i t i s

24v e r y i m p o r t a n t t o a c k n o w l e d g e t h a t t h e r e i s n o

813

814
815
816 164
817

1s i n g l e p u b l i c i n t e r e s t . Because of this,

2a c c r e d i t a t i o n m u s t a d d r e s s n u m e r o u s , o f t e n

3c o m p e t i n g e l e m e n t s o f t h e p u b l i c i n t e r e s t .

4M a n d a t i n g a n y s i n g l e p u b l i c i n t e r e s t t h r o u g h

5e i t h e r l e g i s l a t i o n o r r e g u l a t i o n w o u l d

6d i s e n f r a n c h i s e a n d u l t i m a t e l y b e a d i s s e r v i c e t o

7o t h e r i m p o r t a n t p u b l i c s .

8 I have modified my remarks slightly,

9b e c a u s e m y c o l l e a g u e , D a v i d P r e b l e , c o v e r e d s o m e

10o f t h e p o i n t s v e r y e l o q u e n t l y t h a t I w a s p r e p a r e d

11t o m a k e , b u t t h e y w i l l b e i n c l u d e d i n m y w r i t t e n

12t e s t i m o n y t h a t I w i l l s u b m i t , b u t I a m k i n d o f

13s k i p p i n g a h e a d , h e r e .

14 ASPA member accreditors believe that

15a c c r e d i t a t i o n i s m e a n t t o f o s t e r i m p r o v e m e n t a n d

16n o t j u s t p r o v i d e e v a l u a t i o n . They are committed

17t o p r o v i d i n g g o o d , a c c u r a t e , a p p r o p r i a t e p u b l i c

18i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t d o e s n o t c o m p r o m i s e t h e i n t e g r i t y

19o f t h e p r o c e s s . The business world understands

20t h e n e e d f o r p r i v a t e d i s c u s s i o n s p r i o r t o m a k i n g

21a n n o u n c e m e n t s t o s t o c k h o l d e r s o r t h e p u b l i c .

22A c c r e d i t i n g o r g a n i z a t i o n s a n d i n s t i t u t i o n s a l s o

23n e e d t h e t i m e a n d s p a c e t o m a k e d e c i s i o n s . It is

24i m p o r t a n t t o m a k e p u b l i c a l l f i n a l a c c r e d i t a t i o n

818

819
820
821 165
822

1a c t i o n s , b u t m a i n t a i n i n g a l e v e l o f

2c o n f i d e n t i a l i t y e n a b l e s t h e s y s t e m t o w o r k t o t h e

3b e n e f i t o f a l l . Because only a small number of

4p r o g r a m s i s u n d e r r e v i e w a t a n y g i v e n t i m e , a n d

5b e c a u s e i n s t i t u t i o n s a r e d y n a m i c w i t h o n g o i n g

6c h a n g e s , i n a p p r o p r i a t e c o m p a r i s o n s a r e l i k e l y t o

7c r e a t e a n o n - l e v e l p l a y i n g f i e l d , p u t t i n g

8i n s t i t u t i o n s a t a c o m p e t i t i v e d i s a d v a n t a g e , a n d

9p e r h a p s e v e n m i s l e a d t h e p u b l i c , s o m e t h i n g w h i c h

10g o e s a g a i n s t t h e v e r y n a t u r e o f s p e c i a l i z e d

11a c c r e d i t a t i o n .

12 We believe that preserving autonomy and

13f r e e d o m o f a c t i o n i s i m p o r t a n t . It allows the

14d i v e r s e m i s s i o n o f i n s t i t u t i o n s t o f l o u r i s h .

15I n n o v a t i o n a n d c r e a t i v i t y w i l l d i e w i t h o u t s o m e

16d e g r e e o f f r e e d o m . Retaining principles that

17r e s p e c t f r e e d o m a n d t i m e f o r i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d

18p r o g r a m s , a n d a l s o f o r a c c r e d i t i n g o r g a n i z a t i o n s

19p r o d u c e s e f f e c t i v e , p r o d u c t i v e , a n d c o s t - e f f i c i e n t

20w a y s o f o p e r a t i n g .

21 Members of ASPA are concerned that much of

22t h e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n p o l i c y d i s c u s s i o n s e e m s t o

23h a v e l o s t s i g h t o f t h e f a c t t h a t t h e f u t u r e o f

24A m e r i c a n s u c c e s s d e p e n d s o n t h e e x t e n t t o w h i c h

823

824
825
826 166
827

1s t u d e n t s m a s t e r d i s c i p l i n a r y a n d p r o f e s s i o n a l

2c o n t e n t , n o t o n h o w m u c h d a t a i s c o l l e c t e d , o r t h e

3s p e c i f i c k i n d s o f a c c o u n t a b i l i t y s y s t e m s u s e d .

4A c c r e d i t o r s a r e r e c e p t i v e t o , a n d a p p r e c i a t e ,

5t h o u g h t f u l r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s f r o m m a n y s o u r c e s , b u t

6w a n t r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s , e s p e c i a l l y t h o s e t h a t c a l l

7f o r c h a n g e , t o b e b a s e d o n a c c u r a t e i n f o r m a t i o n ,

8e m p i r i c a l d a t a , a n d b a l a n c e d a n a l y s i s .

9 Many of the proposals under discussion,

10u n f o r t u n a t e l y , d o n o t m e e t t h e s e c r i t e r i a . Having

11s a i d t h i s , i t m a y b e i m p o r t a n t t o a d d t h a t

12o p p o s i n g s o m e o f t h e p r o p o s e d c h a n g e s i s n o t t h e

13s a m e a s b e i n g o p p o s e d t o a l l c h a n g e , o r e v e n t o

14c h a n g e i n g e n e r a l . Members of ASPA simply hope to

15a s s u r e t h a t c h a n g e i s n o t c h a n g e j u s t f o r t h e s a k e

16o f c h a n g e , b u t h a s a r e a l p o t e n t i a l t o m a k e

17p o s i t i v e i m p r o v e m e n t s t h a t w o u l d p a s s t h e c o s t

18b e n e f i t a n a l y s i s .

19 In conclusion, on behalf of ASPA and its

20m e m b e r s , I w a n t t o t h a n k S e c r e t a r y S p e l l i n g s f o r

21i n d i c a t i n g t h a t s h e u n d e r s t a n d s t h e n e e d t o m e e t

22w i t h t h e a c c r e d i t a t i o n c o m m u n i t y t o d i s c u s s s o m e

23o f t h e p r o p o s a l s c o n t a i n e d i n t h e C o m m i s s i o n ’ s

24r e p o r t . We are hopeful that, as we meet, ways to

828

829
830
831 167
832

1i m p l e m e n t s o u n d i d e a s w i l l e m e r g e , a n d t h e

2p o t e n t i a l h a r m o f u n i n t e n d e d c o n s e q u e n c e s c a n b e

3a v o i d e d . We urge you to keep the points from

4t h e s e r e m a r k s i n m i n d a s y o u d e v e l o p t h e t o p i c s t o

5b e a d d r e s s e d i n n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g . ASPA

6s t a n d s r e a d y t o a s s i s t i n t h i s i m p o r t a n t e n d e a v o r

7w h e n e v e r i t o c c u r s , a l t h o u g h w e h o p e t h a t t h e

8a c c r e d i t a t i o n a s p e c t s w i l l b e a d d r e s s e d w h e n

9r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n i s c o m p l e t e d , a n d n o t t h i s f a l l .

10 Thank you.

11 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

12 DAN MADZELAN: Chris Rasmussen.

13 CHRIS RASMUSSEN: Thank you for the

14o p p o r t u n i t y t o b e h e r e t o d a y . My name is Chris

15R a s m u s s e n . I currently serve as the Director of

16P o l i c y R e s e a r c h a t t h e M i d w e s t e r n H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n

17C o m p a c t , a n i n t e r s t a t e c o m p a c t o f 1 1 M i d w e s t e r n

18s t a t e s . Based in Minneapolis, it serves higher

19e d u c a t i o n i n s t i t u t i o n s , s y s t e m s , a n d g o v e r n m e n t

20s t a k e h o l d e r s . I am here today speaking not so

21m u c h o n b e h a l f o f t h e M i d w e s t e r n H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n

22C o m p a c t , b u t r a t h e r a s a n i n d i v i d u a l w i t h n e a r l y

232 0 y e a r s o f e x p e r i e n c e w o r k i n g w i t h c o l l e g e

24s t u d e n t s , a n d s e r v i n g i n s t u d y i n g h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

833

834
835
836 168
837

1i n f i v e U . S . s t a t e s a n d t h e C o m m o n w e a l t h o f

2A u s t r a l i a .

3 I would like to add that I am the first in

4m y f a m i l y t o e a r n a c o l l e g e d e g r e e . I am a former

5P e l l G r a n t r e c i p i e n t , a n d I r e l i e d h e a v i l y o n

6F e d e r a l S t a f f o r d a n d P e r k i n s L o a n s , s e l f l o a n s ,

7i n s t i t u t i o n a l l o a n s , a n d p r i v a t e l o a n s i n t h e

8p u r s u i t o f b o t h m y u n d e r g r a d u a t e a n d g r a d u a t e

9d e g r e e s .

10 Since the last major reform of the federal

11f i n a n c i a l a i d s y s t e m i n t h e e a r l y 1 9 8 0 s , a t t e m p t s

12t o r e d u c e b a r r i e r s t o a c c e s s h a v e a m o u n t e d t o

13l i t t l e m o r e t h a n t i n k e r i n g w i t h w h a t m a n y w o u l d

14a r g u e i s a d y s f u n c t i o n a l m o d e l o f c o l l e g e p r i c i n g

15a n d d i s c o u n t i n g . Perhaps, instead of continuing

16o u r e f f o r t s t o r e p a i r a b r o k e n m o d e l o f c o l l e g e

17f i n a n c i n g , w e s h o u l d a b a n d o n t h e m o d e l a l t o g e t h e r ,

18a n d c o n s i d e r a r a d i c a l r e s t r u c t u r i n g o f o u r

19t h i n k i n g a b o u t h o w t o p a y f o r c o l l e g e .

20 Anytime we look outside of our own country

21f o r e x a m p l e s o f h o w w e m i g h t d o a b e t t e r j o b o f

22g e t t i n g m o r e o f o u r t a l e n t e d y o u t h t o a t t e n d

23c o l l e g e , w h i l e r a d i c a l l y r e d u c i n g t h e c o m p l e x i t y

24a n d t h e b u r e a u c r a c y o f o u r c u r r e n t F e d e r a l

838

839
840
841 169
842

1f i n a n c i a l a i d s y s t e m . One worthy example of

2c o n s i d e r a t i o n i s i n A u s t r a l i a , w h e r e I h a v e s p e n t

3c o n s i d e r a b l e t i m e s t u d y i n g w h a t i s k n o w n a s t h e

4H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n C o n t r i b u t i o n S c h e m e . This is a

5F e d e r a l g o v e r n m e n t p r o g r a m t h a t a l l o w s s t u d e n t s t o

6d e f e r a l l t u i t i o n c o s t s u n t i l a f t e r g r a d u a t i o n , a t

7w h i c h p o i n t t h e y r e p a y t h e d e b t t h r o u g h s a l a r y

8r e d u c t i o n . The program is essentially a form of

9i n c o m e c o n t i n g e n t l e n d i n g , w i t h b o r r o w e r r e p a y m e n t

10s e t a s a p e r c e n t a g e o f a n i n d i v i d u a l ’ s g r o s s

11e a r n i n g s , c u r r e n t l y b e t w e e n f o u r a n d e i g h t p e r c e n t

12o f p a y .

13 A minimum income threshold must be reached

14b e f o r e a n y r e p a y m e n t b e g i n s , c u r r e n t l y s e t a t t h e

15e q u i v a l e n t o f a b o u t U S $ 2 7 , 0 0 0 . This helps to

16e n s u r e t h a t i n d i v i d u a l s a r e n o t o v e r l y b u r d e n e d b y

17l o a n o b l i g a t i o n s a s t h e y s t r u g g l e t o f i n d w o r k o r

18c h o o s e t o e n t e r f i e l d s t h a t a r e t r a d i t i o n a l l y

19l o w e r p a i d , i n c l u d i n g t h e s e r v i c e i n d u s t r i e s a n d

20p r o f e s s i o n s s u c h a s t e a c h i n g , c h i l d c a r e , a n d

21s o c i a l w o r k .

22 While repayment is based on income, no

23s t u d e n t o r f a m i l y m e a n s t e s t i n g i s a p p l i e d a t t h e

24p o i n t o f c o l l e g e e n t r y , m e a n i n g n o F e d e r a l F A F S A

843

844
845
846 170
847

1i s c o m p l e t e d , a l t h o u g h a s e p a r a t e F e d e r a l

2g o v e r n m e n t p r o g r a m d o e s p r o v i d e c a s h a s s i s t a n c e

3a n d h o u s i n g a l l o w a n c e t o s t u d e n t s w h o m e e t c e r t a i n

4i n c o m e s t a n d a r d s . While scholarships exist for

5t h e m o s t h i g h l y t a l e n t e d o f c o l l e g e a p p l i c a n t s ,

6a l l s t u d e n t s e n t e r i n g t h e s a m e a c a d e m i c p r o g r a m

7a r e a s s e s s e d a t t h e s a m e l e v e l o f d e f e r r e d

8t u i t i o n .

9 The Australian system applies to both

10f u l l - t i m e a n d p a r t - t i m e s t u d e n t s , t h u s c o v e r i n g

11h i g h s c h o o l g r a d u a t e s w h o g o r i g h t t o c o l l e g e , a n d

12w o r k i n g a d u l t s r e t u r n i n g t o c o m p l e t e a d e g r e e o r

13o b t a i n t h e e d u c a t i o n n e e d e d f o r a c a r e e r c h a n g e o r

14p r o f e s s i o n a l d e v e l o p m e n t . From an economic

15p e r s p e c t i v e , t h e A u s t r a l i a n m o d e l o f f e r s d i s t i n c t

16b e n e f i t s t o t h e p r o s p e c t i v e c o n s u m e r . The entry

17p r i c e o f c o l l e g e i s , e s s e n t i a l l y , z e r o , a t l e a s t

18i n t e r m s o f t u i t i o n . The income-contingent aspect

19o f r e p a y m e n t a n d t h e m i n i m u m i n c o m e t h r e s h o l d

20s e r v e a s f o r m s o f i n s u r a n c e t h a t r e d u c e t h e r i s k

21a s s o c i a t e d w i t h t h e c h o i c e t o g o t o c o l l e g e .

22 While the government loan is indexed

23a n n u a l l y f o r i n f l a t i o n , i t d o e s n o t c a r r y a n y

24n o m i n a l i n t e r e s t r a t e , n e i t h e r w h i l e t h e p e r s o n i s

848

849
850
851 171
852

1i n s c h o o l o r d u r i n g r e p a y m e n t . Therefore, a delay

2i n r e p a y m e n t i s n o t p e n a l i z e d t h r o u g h i n t e r e s t

3c o m p o u n d i n g . This makes the net value of college

4i n v e s t m e n t m o r e f a v o r a b l e t h a n b o r r o w i n g a t m a r k e t

5r a t e s .

6 In my work with Australian students and

7f a m i l i e s f r o m l o w - i n c o m e b a c k g r o u n d s , t h e v a s t

8m a j o r i t y i n d i c a t e d t h e y w o u l d n o t h a v e b e e n a b l e

9t o p u r s u e e d u c a t i o n w i t h o u t t h e a v a i l a b i l i t y o f

10t h e d e f e r r e d p a y m e n t o p t i o n . Features of the

11s y s t e m r e l i e v e d t h e i r a n x i e t i e s a b o u t p a y i n g f o r

12c o l l e g e , i n c l u d i n g a m i n i m u m r e p a y m e n t t h r e s h o l d ,

13a n d a r e l a t i v e l y s m a l l a m o u n t o f t h e i r w a g e s t h a t

14w o u l d b e d i r e c t e d t o w a r d f u l f i l l i n g t h e i r l o a n

15o b l i g a t i o n s . As a result, they expressed

16r e l a t i v e l y l i t t l e c o n c e r n a b o u t t h e i r a b i l i t y t o

17r e p a y t h e i r l o a n s o r t h e b u r d e n r e p r e s e n t e d b y

18t h e i r d e b t .

19 Individuals who chose not to attend

20c o l l e g e d e c i d e d t o p a s s o n t h e o p p o r t u n i t y n o t

21b e c a u s e o f t u i t i o n c o s t s o r p o t e n t i a l

22i n d e b t e d n e s s , p e r s e , b u t m o s t l y b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e

23i n t e r e s t e d i n c a r e e r s t h a t d i d n o t r e q u i r e a

24c o l l e g e d e g r e e . In fact, many indicated to me

853

854
855
856 172
857

1t h a t t h e y w o u l d l i k e l y h a v e a t t e n d e d c o l l e g e i f i t

2h a d b e e n r e q u i r e d t o e n t e r t h e i r d e s i r e d

3o c c u p a t i o n a l f i e l d . The financial indebtedness

4w a s s o m e t h i n g t h e y w e r e w i l l i n g t o a s s u m e i f

5n e c e s s a r y .

6 The cost-related concerns for these

7s t u d e n t s , o r n o n - s t u d e n t s , a s i t w e r e , e x p r e s s e d

8h a d m o r e t o d o w i t h r e l o c a t i o n f o r c o l l e g e , t h e

9n e e d t o s u p p o r t t h e m s e l v e s w h i l e i n s c h o o l , a n d

10v a r i o u s o u t - o f - p o c k e t e x p e n s e s . Many researchers

11a n d h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a d v o c a t e s i n b o t h A u s t r a l i a

12a n d t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s h a v e a r g u e d t h a t i n d i v i d u a l s

13f r o m l o w - i n c o m e b a c k g r o u n d s a r e m o r e d e b t a v e r s e

14t h a n t h e i r m i d d l e - a n d h i g h e r - i n c o m e p e e r s . This

15p l a y s a r o l e i n t h e i r d e c i s i o n w h e t h e r t o a t t e n d

16c o l l e g e .

17 I believe that what some might consider

18d e b t a v e r s i o n i n t h e c o l l e g e c h o i c e c o n t e x t i s

19o f t e n m o r e a c c u r a t e l y d e s c r i b e d i n e c o n o m i c t e r m s

20a s a “ l o w t a s t e f o r r i s k ” a n d h e i g h t e n e d

21d i s c o m f o r t w i t h t h e u n c e r t a i n t y o f o u t c o m e s f r o m

22t h e c o l l e g e i n v e s t m e n t . Educational debt aversion

23s e e m s t o e x i s t m o r e a s c o n v e n t i o n a l w i s d o m t h a n i t

24d o e s a s a n e m p i r i c a l l y - p r o v e n p h e n o m e n o n . What

858

859
860
861 173
862

1a p p e a r s t o b e a t w o r k i n m a n y c a s e s i s a r e l a t i v e

2l a c k o f k n o w l e d g e o r u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f p r i n c i p l e s

3o f f i n a n c e a n d i n v e s t m e n t , a n d o f t h e l o n g - t e r m

4b e n e f i t s o f s h o r t - t e r m b o r r o w i n g . An effort to

5a c h i e v e a h i g h e r l e v e l o f e c o n o m i c l i t e r a c y i n

6a d o l e s c e n t s m i g h t h e l p t o r e d u c e t h e a n x i e t i e s

7a b o u t t h e c o s t o f c o l l e g e f e l t b y m a n y .

8 At the moment, many college students face

9a d o u b l e w h a m m y u p o n g r a d u a t i o n , h i g h s t u d e n t l o a n

10d e b t a n d t h e d r a m a t i c a l l y i n c r e a s e d c o s t o f

11h o u s i n g , w h i c h h a s g o n e u p m o r e t h a n 1 0 0 p e r c e n t

12o v e r t h e l a s t s i x y e a r s i n s o m e p a r t s o f t h e

13c o u n t r y . The average home cost in many cities in

14t h e M i d w e s t , w h i c h h a s h i s t o r i c a l l y e n j o y e d a

15r e l a t i v e l y l o w c o s t o f l i v i n g , i s n o w o v e r

16$ 2 5 0 , 0 0 0 . The volume of student loan debt carried

17b y m a n y s t u d e n t s , t o g e t h e r w i t h t h e f a c t t h a t a

18h o m e p u r c h a s e i s s u b s t a n t i a l l y o u t o f r e a c h f o r

19m a n y , c o u l d h a v e s e r i o u s i m p l i c a t i o n s f o r o u r

20s o c i e t y , i n c l u d i n g d e l a y e d m a r r i a g e , d e l a y e d o r

21r e d u c e d c h i l d b e a r i n g , e x t e n d e d r e s i d e n c e w i t h

22p a r e n t s , a n d t h e i n a b i l i t y t o i n v e s t o r s a v e f o r

23e m e r g e n c i e s a n d r e t i r e m e n t .

24 Finally, I believe the importation and

863

864
865
866 174
867

1a p p l i c a t i o n o f p i e c e s o f t h e A u s t r a l i a n m o d e l

2w o u l d m a k e f o r a n i n t e r e s t i n g e x p e r i m e n t i n

3e x p a n d i n g e d u c a t i o n a l o p p o r t u n i t y i n t h i s c o u n t r y

4w h i l e r e d u c i n g t h e r e l a t i v e b u r d e n i m p o s e d b y

5s t u d e n t l o a n s . It certainly is better than

6c o n t i n u i n g t o t i n k e r w i t h t h e m o d e l w e p r e s e n t l y

7u s e .

8 Thank you very much for your time.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Matt Glaman.

11 MATT GLAMAN: During high school, I wanted

12t o g o t o c o l l e g e . Well, now I am there–

13 DAN MADZELAN: Name and affiliation,

14p l e a s e . Thank you.

15 MATT GLAMAN: I am Matt Glaman. I am from

16S t e v e n s P o i n t . I am a freshman this year.

17 Throughout high school, I planned to go to

18c o l l e g e , a n d I k n e w t h a t i t w o u l d b e t o u g h t o p a y

19f o r i t , b u t I k i n d o f p u t t h a t a s i d e , b e c a u s e I

20n e e d e d t o g r a d u a t e . I wanted to make sure that I

21w o u l d a c t u a l l y b e a b l e t o g o t o c o l l e g e .

22 This summer I applied for financial aid,

23w h i c h w a s a l o t o f p a p e r w o r k a n d a l o t o f t i m e ,

24a n d i t w a s q u i t e c o n f u s i n g f o r m e . I applied for

868

869
870
871 175
872

1i t , a n d I w a i t e d a n d w a i t e d . I found out that I

2w a s o n l y g o i n g t o r e c e i v e $ 1 , 3 0 0 . Tuition this

3s e m e s t e r c o s t m e a r o u n d $ 4 , 5 0 0 . That leaves me

4r o u g h l y $ 3 , 0 0 0 f o r t h i s s e m e s t e r . If this were to

5c o n t i n u e f o r a l l e i g h t s e m e s t e r s , I w o u l d b e i n

6d e b t $ 2 4 , 0 0 0 . I searched around for loans to

7f i g u r e o u t h o w t o p a y o f f t h i s $ 3 , 0 0 0 , a n d a l l o f

8t h e l o a n s w e r e a t a n i n t e r e s t r a t e o f a b o u t f i v e

9p e r c e n t . So $24,000 at five percent over four

10y e a r s - - t h a t i s a l o t o f d e b t t h a t I a m g o i n g t o

11h a v e t o p a y o f f .

12 Also, I have friends that do not even go

13t o c o l l e g e n o w b e c a u s e o f t h i s c o s t . They saw

14t h a t a h e a d o f t i m e . They did not ignore it like I

15d i d . My friend Tighe, he had received a 26 on the

16A C T , c o u l d h a v e g o n e t o a g r e a t c o l l e g e , b u t h e

17w a s u n a b l e t o p a y f o r i t . He is now working at a

18g a s s t a t i o n . He was going to apply to Milwaukee,

19g e t a b u s i n e s s m a j o r a n d o p e n a c o m m u n i t y c e n t e r

20w h e r e k i d s c o u l d g o a n d b a n d s c o u l d p l a y - - t r y t o

21g i v e s o m e t h i n g b a c k t o t h e c o m m u n i t y , b u t n o w h e

22i s n o t d o i n g t h a t b e c a u s e h e c o u l d n ’ t a f f o r d

23c o l l e g e .

24 My friend Liberty, she was going to go to

873

874
875
876 176
877

1s c h o o l t o b e a p h o t o j o u r n a l i s t . Throughout high

2s c h o o l s h e h a d a j o b a t W a l g r e e n s . She came very

3s e c u r e . She had a good income. She was able to

4s u p p o r t h e r s e l f . She chose not to go to college

5s o t h a t s h e w o u l d n o t l o s e t h i s j o b . She would

6n o t g o t o c o l l e g e . She would not get into debt,

7a n d s h e w o u l d n o t h a v e t o f i n d a n e w j o b a n d h a v e

8t o s t a r t a l l o v e r .

9 Then, going back to my situation, with

10t h i s $ 2 4 , 0 0 0 i n d e b t w i t h f i v e p e r c e n t i n t e r e s t

11o v e r t h e f o u r y e a r s , a n d t h e n g e t t i n g o u t o f

12c o l l e g e h a v i n g t o f i n d h o u s i n g , p a y f o r f o o d ,

13o t h e r t h i n g s I w i l l n e e d , a n d c o m m u t i n g t o a j o b - -

14I d o n o t k n o w h o w I a m g o i n g t o s t a r t o f f . I do

15n o t k n o w h o w t o s t a r t l i f e b e c a u s e I a m s o f a r

16b e h i n d . So I am hoping that, with all these ideas

17t h a t h a v e c o m e u p , y o u g u y s h e l p f i n d a w a y t o

18h e l p m a k e c o l l e g e m o r e a f f o r d a b l e s o t h a t p e o p l e

19w h o d o d e c i d e t o g o t o c o l l e g e a n d m a k e t h i s

20c o u n t r y g r e a t e r b y u s i n g t h e i r i n t e l l e c t - - a n d t h e n

21g e t m o r e p e o p l e t o g o t o c o l l e g e . That is pretty

22m u c h t h e s u m o f i t a l l .

23 Thank you for your time.

24 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

878

879
880
881 177
882

1 DAN MADZELAN: Katie Kloth.

2 KATIE KLOTH: Hello. My name is Katie

3K l o t h , a n d I a t t e n d t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S t e v e n s

4P o i n t , W i s c o n s i n . You have seen many of us here

5t o d a y .

6 I did not break it, I promise.

7 DAN MADZELAN: It belongs to Loyola, not

8u s , s o – -

9 [Laughter.]

10 KATIE KLOTH: Loyola, I did not break your

11m i c r o p h o n e .

12 In all seriousness, though, I am double

13m a j o r i n g a t S t e v e n s P o i n t i n c o m m u n i c a t i o n s a n d

14p o l i t i c a l s c i e n c e a n d , a f t e r m y c o l l e g e e n d e a v o r s

15h a v e c e a s e d , I p l a n t o a t t a i n a j o b d o i n g

16e n v i r o n m e n t a l a c t i v i s m a n d / o r j o u r n a l i s m .

17H o w e v e r , d u e t o e n o r m o u s o f s t u d e n t l o a n d e b t t h a t

18I w i l l h a v e t o p a y o f f p o s t - g r a d u a t i o n , I w i l l

19m o s t l i k e l y f i r s t h a v e t o g e t s o m e k i n d o f h i g h e r

20p a y i n g j o b i n a f i e l d t h a t i s n o t m y f i r s t

21i n t e r e s t o r f i r s t c h o i c e , a n d r a t h e r t h a n d o i n g

22w h a t I w a n t t o d o , w h i c h i s n o n - p r o f i t a c t i v i s t

23w o r k t h a t w o u l d b e n e f i t n u m e r o u s o t h e r p e o p l e ,

24r a t h e r t h a n j u s t m y s e l f .

883

884
885
886 178
887

1 In having aspirations to be a non-profit

2w o r k e r , s u c h a s a p r o g r a m o r g a n i z e r , i n a p l a c e

3m u c h l i k e I c o m e f r o m , S t e v e n s P o i n t - - w e d o m a n y

4g r a s s r o o t s t h i n g s a n d s o c i a l i n t e r e s t t h i n g s a n d

5i t i s a m a z i n g . Any way you choose to describe it,

6i t i s a m a z i n g . Sadly, the salary you get is only

7a b o u t $ 2 3 , 0 0 0 a y e a r , a n d t h a t i s n o t a l o t o f

8m o n e y c o n s i d e r i n g h o w m u c h d e b t I a m g o i n g t o b e

9h a v i n g .

10 With this job, getting new experience in

11o t h e r c o u n t r i e s h e l p s b r o a d e n y o u r s p e c t r u m o f

12u n d e r s t a n d i n g a n d a t t a i n a p l e t h o r a o f n e w

13k n o w l e d g e t h r o u g h e x p e r i e n t i a l l e a r n i n g . However,

14i n a d d i t i o n t o d e b t f r o m t u i t i o n , i f o n e w a n t s t o

15s t u d y a b r o a d i t o n l y c r e a t e s a h i g h e r b i l l t h a t

16c a n n o t m e r e l y b e s u p p l e m e n t e d b y g o v e r n m e n t a l

17f i n a n c i a l a i d , a n d c a u s i n g m e a n d o t h e r p e o p l e t o

18t a k e o u t o t h e r a l t e r n a t i v e l o a n s , w h i c h I h a d t o

19t a k e o u t t h i s y e a r - - l i k e , a $ 1 3 , 0 0 0 l o a n . They do

20n o t e v e n h a v e c e i l i n g s , s o t h e y c a n j u s t

21s k y r o c k e t . You can owe all this money, it is

22r e d u n c u l o u s [ s i c ] . Anyway--I am serious, though.

23 Anyway, so, the unfortunate reality of

24t h i s i s - - i n f a c t , e v e r y o n e s h o u l d h a v e t h i s g r e a t

888

889
890
891 179
892

1o p p o r t u n i t y t o s t u d y a b r o a d a n d g o w h e r e t h e y

2p l e a s e , a s i t i s a l i f e - c h a n g i n g o p p o r t u n i t y t h a t

3c a n b e m i s s e d . I, for one, am studying abroad in

4A u s t r a l i a n e x t s e m e s t e r a n d , l i k e I s a i d , I h a v e

5t a k e n a $ 1 3 , 0 0 0 a l t e r n a t i v e l o a n a n d , s i n c e I

6a l r e a d y h a v e a S t a f f o r d L o a n , a P e r k i n s L o a n , a n d

7w o r k s t u d y , t h i s i s j u s t g o i n g t o b e a r i d i c u l o u s

8a m o u n t o f e x t r a l o a n m o n e y a n d d e b t I w i l l h a v e t o

9p a y o f f t h a t I w i l l n o t b e a b l e t o .

10 In conclusion, I think that student debt

11n e e d s t o h a v e b e t t e r r e g u l a t i o n s t o h e l p c o n t r o l

12t h e s e i n t e r e s t r a t e s t h a t a r e s p i r a l i n g o u t o f

13c o n t r o l . There needs to be more financial aid

14a v a i l a b l e t o a l l q u a l i f i e d s t u d e n t s , i n g e n e r a l ,

15s o o t h e r s l i k e m e d o n o t h a v e t o w o r k t w o j o b s

16d u r i n g t h e s c h o o l y e a r , a n d e n d u p j u g g l i n g

17e x t e n s i v e j o b d e m a n d s w i t h s c h o o l , w h e r e t h e

18m a j o r i t y o f m y t i m e w i l l b e s p e n t m a k i n g m o n e y

19v e r s u s s t u d y i n g , w h i c h I a m a c t u a l l y g o i n g t o

20s c h o o l f o r .

21 Thank you for your time.

22 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

23 DAN MADZELAN: Scott Formo.

24 SCOTT FORMO: Good afternoon. My name is

893

894
895
896 180
897

1S c o t t F o r m o , a n d I a m t h e P r e s i d e n t o f t h e

2M i n n e s o t a S t a t e C o l l e g e S t u d e n t A s s o c i a t i o n , a n d

3a l s o a s t u d e n t a t A l e x a n d r i a T e c h n i c a l C o l l e g e i n

4A l e x a n d r i a , M i n n e s o t a .

5 I am very appreciative that these hearings

6h a v e b e e n c a l l e d t o d i s c u s s s o m e o f t h e p o s i t i v e

7c h a n g e s t h a t c a n b e m a d e t o t h e F e d e r a l f i n a n c i a l

8a i d p r o c e s s . Currently, the Minnesota State

9C o l l e g e s a n d U n i v e r s i t y S y s t e m , o r M N S C U , i s t h e

10l a r g e s t s i n g l e p r o v i d e r o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n i n t h e

11s t a t e o f M i n n e s o t a , w h i c h e n c o m p a s s e s 4 6 t w o - y e a r

12c o m m u n i t y a n d t e c h n i c a l c o l l e g e c a m p u s e s , a s w e l l

13a s s e v e n f o u r - y e a r s t a t e u n i v e r s i t i e s . MNSCU

14s e r v e s a p p r o x i m a t e l y 2 4 0 , 0 0 0 s t u d e n t s a n n u a l l y i n

15c r e d i t - b a s e d c o u r s e s , a n d a n a d d i t i o n a l 1 3 0 , 0 0 0

16s t u d e n t s a y e a r i n n o n - c r e d i t c o u r s e s .

17 As President of the Minnesota State

18C o l l e g e S t u d e n t A s s o c i a t i o n , o r M S C S A , I a m h e r e

19t o d a y t o r e p r e s e n t t h e m o r e t h a n 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 s t u d e n t s

20f r o m M i n n e s o t a ’ s t w o - y e a r p u b l i c c o l l e g e s . MSCSA

21e m p o w e r s s t u d e n t g o v e r n m e n t s a n d s t u d e n t s b y

22o r g a n i z i n g a n d p r o m o t i n g a c t i v i t i e s a n d e n c o u r a g e

23u n i t y w i t h i n t h e s t u d e n t c o m m u n i t y , w h i l e a l s o

24p r o v i d i n g o p p o r t u n i t i e s f o r s t u d e n t s t o d e v e l o p

898

899
900
901 181
902

1l e a d e r s h i p s k i l l s .

2 Over the past couple of months, we have

3g e a r e d u p f o r w h a t m a k e s t o b e a n i n t e r e s t i n g

4y e a r , b o t h a c a d e m i c a l l y a n d l e g i s l a t i v e l y .

5R o s a l i n d C a r t e r o n c e s a i d , “ A l e a d e r t a k e s p e o p l e

6w h e r e t h e y w a n t t o g o . A great leader doesn’t

7n e c e s s a r i l y t a k e p e o p l e w h e r e t h e y w a n t t o g o , b u t

8o u g h t t o b e . ”

9 We have worked hard along the way with

10o t h e r s t u d e n t a s s o c i a t i o n s t o t r a i n m a n y g r e a t

11l e a d e r s t o a d v o c a t e f o r w h a t “ o u g h t t o b e ” b y

12m o b i l i z i n g o u r l e a d e r s h i p t e a m s t o r a i s e a w a r e n e s s

13o f t h e i s s u e s a t h a n d , i n c l u d i n g t h e r i s i n g

14i n t e r e s t r a t e s a n d s t u d e n t d e b t t h r o u g h r e g u l a r

15p r e s s e v e n t s , t r a i n i n g , w o r k s h o p s , a n d r e g u l a r

16a s s o c i a t i o n u p d a t e s t o a l l o f o u r 4 6 c a m p u s e s .

17M o r e r e c e n t l y , w e h a v e s h i f t e d i n t o h i g h g e a r i n

18o u r “ G e t O u t t h e V o t e ” e f f o r t s b y s w a r m i n g

19c a m p u s e s w i t h s t u d e n t s , w o r k i n g t o r e g i s t e r n e w

20v o t e r s . So far, this year, we have registered

21o v e r 1 , 2 0 0 n e w v o t e r s a t o u r c a m p u s e s .

22 In addition, through comprehensive

23s t u d e n t - b a s e d , g r a s s r o o t s e f f o r t s , M S C S A a d v o c a t e s

24l o c a l , s t a t e , a n d f e d e r a l l e v e l f o r a c c e s s i b l e ,

903

904
905
906 182
907

1a f f o r d a b l e , a n d q u a l i t y e d u c a t i o n . In fact, this

2p a s t w e e k , M S C S A s t u d e n t s w e r e i n W a s h i n g t o n ,

3D . C . , t o a d v o c a t e a t t h e F e d e r a l l e v e l w i t h

4S e n a t e , C o n g r e s s i o n a l , a n d t h e N a t i o n a l G o v e r n o r ’ s

5A s s o c i a t i o n d e l e g a t e s a n d s t a f f , v a r i o u s

6e d u c a t i o n a l l o b b y i s t s , a n d o t h e r l o c a l , s t a t e , a n d

7F e d e r a l s t u d e n t a s s o c i a t i o n s t h a t w e r e p r e s e n t f o r

8t h e A m e r i c a n S t u d e n t A s s o c i a t i o n o f C o m m u n i t y

9C o l l e g e s a t t h e A S A C C f a l l c i t i z e n s h i p c o n f e r e n c e .

10 While in Washington, D.C., I heard many

11s t o r i e s s i m i l a r t o t h e o n e s y o u h a v e h e a r d t o d a y ,

12a n d w i l l h e a r a t f u t u r e h e a r i n g s , o f h o w s t u d e n t

13d e b t i s a g r o w i n g c o n c e r n t h a t a f f e c t s t o d a y ’ s

14s t u d e n t s a n d t o m o r r o w ’ s e c o n o m y . More

15i m p o r t a n t l y , t h o u g h , h e r e t o d a y , I a l s o r e p r e s e n t

16t h e g r o w i n g n u m b e r o f a d u l t s a n d s t u d e n t s l i k e m e

17w i t h f a m i l i e s a n d c h i l d r e n w h o a r e r e t u r n i n g t o

18s c h o o l t o a c h i e v e v o c a t i o n a l g o a l s a n d a c q u i r e t h e

19s k i l l s n e c e s s a r y t o c o m p e t e i n t h e g l o b a l e c o n o m y .

20 Many of us have returned to school to

21c r e a t e a b e t t e r l i f e , n o t o n l y f o r o u r s e l v e s a n d

22o u r f a m i l i e s , b u t a l s o f o r t h e c o m m u n i t y a s a

23w h o l e . Like many other non-traditional students,

24I r e t u r n e d t o s c h o o l b e c a u s e I f e l t t h a t I n e e d e d

908

909
910
911 183
912

1t o u p d a t e m y s k i l l s i n e d u c a t i o n i n o r d e r t o m a k e

2m y s e l f m o r e m a r k e t a b l e i n t o d a y ’ s w o r k f o r c e . As a

3r e t u r n i n g p a r e n t / s t u d e n t , n o t o n l y a m I f a c i n g t h e

4c h a l l e n g e s o f r e t u r n i n g t o s c h o o l a n d b a l a n c i n g

5f a m i l y t i m e w i t h s c h o o l a n d w o r k , b u t a l s o

6r e a c q u a i n t i n g m y s e l f w i t h t h e n e c e s s a r y s t u d y

7s k i l l s t o s u c c e e d , w h i l e b a t t l i n g t h e r i s i n g c o s t

8o f t u i t i o n i n M i n n e s o t a , a s w e l l a s a c r o s s t h e

9n a t i o n .

10 I also returned to school to help create a

11b e t t e r c o m m u n i t y . Higher interest rates and

12i n c r e a s i n g s t u d e n t d e b t c a n s e r i o u s l y d e t e r

13s t u d e n t s f r o m g o i n g t o s c h o o l a n d f i l l i n g

14e s s e n t i a l r o l e s i n s o c i e t y . College campuses that

15h a v e m a n y b e n e f i t s t o o f f e r t h e c o m m u n i t y , a l o n g

16w i t h t h e w i d e v a r i e t y o f c h o i c e s i n d e g r e e

17o p t i o n s - - h o w e v e r , l i k e a n y o t h e r c o l l e g e c a m p u s i n

18t h e n a t i o n , t h e s e o p t i o n s d o n o t c o m e w i t h o u t a

19h i g h p r i c e t a g , a s s t u d e n t s t o d a y a r e f a c e d w i t h

20c u t s t o f i n a n c i a l a i d a n d h i g h e r i n t e r e s t r a t e s o n

21s t u d e n t l o a n s .

22 With our future earning capacity devoted

23t o p a y i n g o f f t h e e x t r a d e b t c r e a t e d b y t h e r i s i n g

24i n t e r e s t r a t e s , s t u d e n t s t o d a y a r e f a c e d w i t h s o m e

913

914
915
916 184
917

1t o u g h d e c i s i o n s . With such a high debt load, how

2c a n I p r o v i d e f o r m y f a m i l y , a n d a c t u a l l y m o v e

3a h e a d i n m y c a r e e r , w h i c h i s m y s o l e r e a s o n t o

4r e t u r n t o s c h o o l i n t h e f i r s t p l a c e . More

5i m p o r t a n t l y , h o w i s i t p o s s i b l e t o s a v e f o r m y

6r e t i r e m e n t , a n d , e v e n m o r e i m p o r t a n t l y t h a n t h a t ,

7m y t e n - y e a r - o l d s o n ’ s c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n , w h e n I

8c a n h a r d l y p a y f o r m y o w n , a s i t i s ?

9 Parent-students from Minnesota and across

10t h e n a t i o n a r e o f t e n f o r c e d t o d e c i d e b e t w e e n

11f i n a n c i n g t h e i r o w n e d u c a t i o n a n d t h a t o f t h e i r

12c h i l d r e n . Even if they ambitiously attempt both,

13a f t e r g r a d u a t i o n t h e y w i l l h a v e e v e n l e s s i n c o m e

14t h a n t r a d i t i o n a l s t u d e n t s t o c o n t r i b u t e t o w a r d s

15r e p a y m e n t . MSCSA urges the Department of

16E d u c a t i o n t o f o r m a l l y r e c o g n i z e t h e u n i q u e

17f i n a n c i a l n e e d s o f p a r e n t g r a d u a t e s i n t h e

18r e p a y m e n t p r o c e s s .

19 Balancing the financial needs of both

20e d u c a t i o n a n d f a m i l y i s m a d e m o r e d i f f i c u l t b y t h e

21a m o u n t o f b o r r o w i n g t h a t h a s b e c o m e n e c e s s a r y t o

22f i n i s h a d e g r e e , e v e n a t t h e p u b l i c t w o - y e a r

23c o l l e g e s y s t e m . At Alexandria Technical College,

24m y h o m e c a m p u s , 7 8 p e r c e n t o f s t u d e n t s a r e n o t

918

919
920
921 185
922

1e l i g i b l e f o r t h e P e l l G r a n t , a n d 1 0 p e r c e n t h a v e a

2f a m i l y i n c o m e o f l e s s t h a n $ 3 0 , 0 0 0 .

3 As a thirty-something non-traditional

4s t u d e n t , I a m o n l y s l i g h t l y a b o v e t h e a v e r a g e a g e

5o f M i n n e s o t a ’ s p u b l i c t w o - y e a r s t u d e n t s , w h i c h i s

62 6 . 3 y e a r s o f a g e . When you consider that 95

7p e r c e n t o f t h e s t u d e n t s o v e r a g e 2 5 r e c e i v e n o

8p a r e n t a l s u p p o r t f o r t h e i r e d u c a t i o n , a c c e s s t o

9s u p p o s e d l y o p e n - a c c e s s i n s t i t u t i o n s s e e m s

10i n c r e a s i n g l y o u t o f r e a c h .

11 According to the United States Student

12A s s o c i a t i o n , n a t i o n w i d e t h e r e i s $ 3 1 b i l l i o n i n

13f i n a n c i a l n e e d t h a t i s n o t b e i n g m e t b y f i n a n c i a l

14a i d . MSCSA applaud Secretary Spellings and the

15D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n ’ s r e c o g n i t i o n t h a t

16s t u d e n t s f a c e h e a v y d e b t l o a d s u p o n g r a d u a t i o n ,

17a n d w e e n c o u r a g e t h e D e p a r t m e n t t o t a k e g r e a t

18s t r i d e s i n c o n t r o l l i n g t h e a f f o r d a b i l i t y o f l o a n

19r e p a y m e n t i n t h e f i n a n c i a l a i d p r o c e s s , g e n e r a l l y .

20 Student borrowing rates are a huge concern

21a c r o s s t h e c o u n t r y . In Minnesota, 74 percent of

22u n d e r g r a d u a t e s g r a d u a t i n g f r o m p u b l i c i n s t i t u t i o n s

23i n 2 0 0 4 h a d b o r r o w e d m o n e y t o c o m p l e t e t h e i r

24d e g r e e s , b o r r o w i n g a n a v e r a g e o f $ 1 7 , 2 0 0 e a c h .

923

924
925
926 186
927

1S i n c e t h a t t i m e , t u i t i o n h a s c o n t i n u e d t o r i s e a t

2r a t e s t h a t d w a r f b o t h i n f l a t i o n a n d t h e c o s t o f

3l i v i n g . Tuition at Minnesota’s public two-year

4c o l l e g e s h a s r i s e n 6 7 p e r c e n t s i n c e t h e y e a r 2 0 0 0 .

5 A great deal of the Higher Education Act

6w a s r e a l l y t o a c c e s s i b i l i t y a n d a f f o r d a b i l i t y t o a

7q u a l i t y e d u c a t i o n b y a l l . Minnesota’s population

8i s e x p e c t e d t o i n c r e a s e b y 1 4 p e r c e n t o v e r t h e

9n e x t 1 4 y e a r s . Currently, eight percent of the

10a d u l t p o p u l a t i o n o f M i n n e s o t a h a s l e s s t h a n a h i g h

11s c h o o l d i p l o m a , m a k i n g a c c e s s i b i l i t y e v e n m o r e

12i m p o r t a n t t h a n i n y e a r s p a s t .

13 Affordability means having the ability to

14g o t o c o l l e g e f u l l - t i m e w i t h o u t h a v i n g t o t a k e o n

15o n e , t w o , o r e v e n t h r e e j o b s , h a v i n g t o t a k e o u t

16s t u d e n t l o a n s w i t h i n t e r e s t r a t e s h i g h e r t h a n t h e y

17w e r e o n l y a f e w m o n t h s a g o , o r e v e n h a v i n g t o

18c h o o s e b e t w e e n w h a t y o u w a n t t o d o v e r s u s w h a t y o u

19c a n a f f o r d t o d o . While this is what past

20g e n e r a t i o n s w e r e a b l e t o c a l l a f f o r d a b l e ,

21c u r r e n t l y i t i s t h e e x a c t o p p o s i t e . Average

22s t u d e n t d e b t f o r s t u d e n t s h a s i n c r e a s e d b y 1 0 7

23p e r c e n t i n t h e p a s t d e c a d e . Minnesota colleges

24a r e m o r e d e p e n d e n t o n t u i t i o n t h a n o u r n e i g h b o r s .

928

929
930
931 187
932

1 Recently, the Chronicle for Higher

2E d u c a t i o n r e l e a s e d i t s d a t a , a n d M i n n e s o t a ’ s t w o -

3y e a r p u b l i c c o l l e g e s n o w r a n k s n u m b e r t w o i n t h e

4n a t i o n , n u m b e r t w o a s i n t h e s e c o n d h i g h e s t c o s t

5o f c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s , n o t

6e x a c t l y w h a t w e w a n t t o b r a g a b o u t . MSCSA urges

7t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n t o c o n s i d e r t h e p o i n t

8a t w h i c h l a c k o f a f f o r d a b i l i t y b e c o m e s a r o a d b l o c k

9f o r a c c e s s i b l e e d u c a t i o n .

10 The National Center for Public Policy in

11H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n ’ s M e a s u r i n g U p 2 0 0 6 , t h e s t a t e

12r e p o r t c a r d o n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n s t a t e s t h a t ,

13c o m p a r e d w i t h t h e b e s t p e r f o r m i n g s t a t e s , f a m i l i e s

14i n M i n n e s o t a d e v o t e a f a i r l y l a r g e s h a r e o f f a m i l y

15i n c o m e , e v e n a f t e r f i n a n c i a l a i d , t o a t t e n d p u b l i c

16t w o - y e a r c o l l e g e s . Measuring Up 2006 goes on to

17s t a t e t h a t M i n n e s o t a d o e s n o t o f f e r l o w - p r i c e

18c o l l e g e o p p o r t u n i t i e s . Even after financial aid

19i s d i s b u r s e d t o i n s t i t u t i o n s a n d s t u d e n t s , t h e

20p e r c e n t o f M i n n e s o t a ’ s i n c o m e , t h e a v e r a g e o f a l l

21t h e i n c o m e g r o u p s , n e e d e d t o p a y f o r c o l l e g e

22e x p e n s e s , m i n u s f i n a n c i a l a i d , h a s r i s e n f r o m 1 9

23p e r c e n t t o 2 2 p e r c e n t f o r t h e p u b l i c t w o - y e a r

24c o l l e g e s , 7 p e r c e n t h i g h e r t h a n o t h e r t o p s t a t e s

933

934
935
936 188
937

1i n t h e n a t i o n . It has risen from 19 percent to 26

2p e r c e n t a t t h e f o u r - y e a r p u b l i c c o l l e g e s a n d

3u n i v e r s i t i e s , 1 0 p e r c e n t h i g h e r t h a n o t h e r t o p

4s t a t e s i n t h e n a t i o n .

5 In populations with the lowest income, 52

6p e r c e n t o f t h e a v e r a g e f a m i l y i n c o m e i s s p e n t o n

7c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n a t t h e t w o - y e a r p u b l i c c o l l e g e

8s y s t e m , w h e r e a s 2 4 p e r c e n t o f t h e l o w e r m i d d l e -

9i n c o m e , a n d 1 6 p e r c e n t o f t h e m i d d l e - i n c o m e , a n d

10s o f o r t h . The report also states that

11u n d e r g r a d u a t e s t u d e n t s a r e b o r r o w i n g a n a v e r a g e o f

122 2 p e r c e n t t h a n i n 1 9 9 2 . MSCSA is conscious of

13t h e f a c t t h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n c a n n o t

14d i r e c t l y c o n t r o l t u i t i o n , n o r t h e a m o u n t o f

15f i n a n c i a l a i d o u r s t u d e n t s a r e a w a r d e d . However,

16b y n e g o t i a t i n g r u l e s o f r e p a y m e n t t h a t a l l e v i a t e

17t h e f i n a n c i a l b u r d e n o f g r a d u a t e s , t o d a y ’ s

18s t u d e n t s m a y b e i n a b e t t e r f i n a n c i a l p o s i t i o n t o

19c o n t r i b u t e t o t h e e c o n o m y i n t h e e s s e n t i a l w a y s w e

20a l l v a l u e , t h r o u g h c a r e e r s i n p u b l i c s e r v i c e ,

21i n c r e a s e d t a x r e v e n u e , a n d a n e d u c a t e d w o r k f o r c e .

22 There are many small ways that we could

23p r o v i d e g r e a t b e n e f i t t o t o d a y ’ s l e a r n e r . I am

24s u r e y o u w i l l h e r e m a n y c r e a t i v e p r o p o s a l s

938

939
940
941 189
942

1t h r o u g h o u t t h e c o u r s e o f t h e s e h e a r i n g s . However,

2I a m c o n c e r n e d w i t h t h e a b i l i t y o f w o r k i n g a d u l t s ,

3p a r t i c u l a r l y p a r e n t s , t o r e t u r n t o s c h o o l i n

4t o d a y ’ s h i g h - t u i t i o n , h i g h - d e b t c l i m a t e . Allowing

5l o a n f o r g i v e n e s s a f t e r m a n y y e a r s o f d i l i g e n t

6p a r e n t s w o u l d d e f i n i t e l y a i d p a r e n t s b o g g l e d b y

7h o w t o h e l p t h e i r c h i l d r e n a c c e s s h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n

8w h i l e r e p a y i n g t h e i r o w n s t u d e n t l o a n s .

9 Additionally, families run into financial

10h a r d s h i p f o r a m u l t i t u d e o f r e a s o n s , m a n y

11u n f o r e s e e n a n d n o t p r e v e n t a b l e . Providing

12g r a d u a t e s w i t h a s i m p l i f i e d p r o c e s s f o r a p p l y i n g

13f o r h a r d s h i p d e f e r r a l s a n d h a l t i n g t h e a c c r u a l o f

14i n t e r e s t d u r i n g t i m e s o f h a r d s h i p w o u l d e n s u r e

15t h a t e v e r y f a m i l y c a n r e a c h t h e i r e d u c a t i o n a l

16g o a l s . This is not to say that there should not

17b e a c c o u n t a b i l i t y t h a t a c q u i r e l o a n s t o f u n d t h e i r

18c o u r s e w o r k o f e d u c a t i o n i s a n i n v e s t m e n t , a n d

19s o m e t i m e s b o r r o w i n g i s a n e c e s s a r y e x p e n s e t o

20a c h i e v e a d e g r e e . As a student, a future

21p r o f e s s i o n a l , a n d a p a r e n t I t a k e t h i s

22r e s p o n s i b i l i t y v e r y s e r i o u s l y , a s d o o t h e r

23s t u d e n t s a c r o s s t h e c o u n t r y . If given the tools

24t o a l l e v i a t e a p o r t i o n o f t h e r e p a y m e n t b u r d e n , w e

943

944
945
946 190
947

1c a n a c h i e v e m o r e t h a n w e e v e r t h o u g h t p o s s i b l e .

2 Our association represents students that

3w i l l t r a i n a n d t r a n s i t i o n i n t o t o m o r r o w ’ s

4w o r k f o r c e - - t h e h a r d w o r k i n g p e o p l e w h o w i l l e n t e r

5s e r v i c e o c c u p a t i o n s , s u c h a s n u r s i n g , l a w

6e n f o r c e m e n t , e d u c a t i o n , a n d p u b l i c i n t e r e s t w o r k .

7T o a l l o w e n t r y i n t o t h e s e f i e l d s , p a r t i c u l a r l y

8a m o n g n o n - t r a d i t i o n a l s t u d e n t s , s o m e t h i n g m u s t b e

9d o n e t o a l l e v i a t e u n r e a s o n a b l e r e p a y m e n t o n

10s t u d e n t d e b t . Allowing for income-contingent

11r e p a y m e n t p l a n s f o r a l l b o r r o w e r s , a n d f o r g i v i n g

12r e m a i n i n g d e b t a f t e r 2 0 y e a r s o f d u t i f u l r e p a y m e n t

13w o u l d s i g n i f i c a n t l y a s s i s t i n t h i s a r e a .

14 MSCSA urges the Department of Education to

15m a k e r e p a y m e n t m o r e m a n a g e a b l e f o r g r a d u a t e s i n

16a l l f i e l d s o f s t u d y t h r o u g h t h e s e m e a s u r e s . We

17e n c o u r a g e y o u t o l o o k c r e a t i v e l y a t o t h e r m e a n s o f

18g r o w i n g A m e r i c a ’ s p o t e n t i a l w o r k f o r c e t h r o u g h

19a f f o r d a b l e e d u c a t i o n . With the passing of the

20H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n o f 1 9 6 5 , t h e F e d e r a l s t u d e n t l o a n

21p r o g r a m s w e r e c r e a t e d . President Johnson declared

22t h a t t h e r e s u l t o f t h i s l e g i s l a t i o n w a s t h a t “ A

23h i g h s c h o o l s e n i o r a n y w h e r e i n t h i s g r e a t l a n d o f

24o u r s c a n a p p l y t o a n y c o l l e g e s a n d u n i v e r s i t y i n

948

949
950
951 191
952

1a n y o f t h e 5 0 s t a t e s a n d w o u l d n o t b e t u r n e d a w a y

2b e c a u s e h i s f a m i l y i s p o o r . ”

3 Just over 40 years later, this vision

4c o u l d n o t b e f u r t h e r f r o m r e a l i t y . The good news

5i s t h a t t h e v i s i o n h a s n o t b e e n l o s t , a n d t h e r e

6a r e t h i n g s t h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n c a n d o

7t o s e t h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n o n a n e v e n p l a y i n g f i e l d

8f o r a l l . Become a model for state governments,

9a n d l e a d t h e F e d e r a l f i n a n c i a l a i d s y s t e m t o w h e r e

10i t o u g h t t o b e .

11 Thank you, again, for your time and

12c o n s i d e r a t i o n t o d a y .

13 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

14 DAN MADZELAN: You will have to tell us

15w h o i s n e x t .

16 KATIE CAMPION: My name is Katie--is this

17l o u d e n o u g h ?

18 DAN MADZELAN: No.

19 KATIE CAMPION: Okay. My name is Kate

20C a m p i o n . I am the Treasurer for the Minnesota

21S t a t e C o l l e g e S t u d e n t A s s o c i a t i o n , a n d I a m t h e

22S t u d e n t S e n a t e P r e s i d e n t f o r I n v e r H i l l s C o m m u n i t y

23C o l l e g e i n M i n n e s o t a . I am what you might call

24j u s t a l i t t l e b i t b i a s e d .

953

954
955
956 192
957

1 Thank you very much for the opportunity to

2s h a r e m y t h o u g h t s w i t h y o u .

3 Like the Department of Education, I am

4c o n c e r n e d w i t h m a k i n g c h a n g e s t o t h e f i n a n c i a l a i d

5p r o c e s s a n d e s t a b l i s h e d r u l e s t h a t w o u l d p r o v i d e

6i n c r e a s e d a f f o r d a b i l i t y t o t o d a y ’ s c o l l e g e

7s t u d e n t . I bring a somewhat different perspective

8t o t h i s d i s c u s s i o n , a s I h a v e o n l y r e c e n t l y

9g r a d u a t e d h i g h s c h o o l a n d b e g u n m y c o l l e g e

10e x p e r i e n c e w i t h p l a n s t o e a r n a d e g r e e i n u r b a n

11e d u c a t i o n .

12 With tuition at colleges and universities

13a t a r a p i d r a t e , m a n y s t u d e n t s a r e r u l i n g o u t

14h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n b e f o r e t h e y e v e n s t e p f o o t i n t o

15t h e d o o r . I attend a two-year community college,

16t h e o p e n a c c e s s p o i n t i n M i n n e s o t a f o r a f f o r d a b l e

17h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n f o r h i g h s c h o o l g r a d u a t e s . Two-

18y e a r c o l l e g e s h a v e a l w a y s p r i d e d t h e m s e l v e s a s

19s e r v i n g a s a n o p e n a c c e s s p o i n t t o h i g h e r

20e d u c a t i o n , h o w e v e r , n a t i o n w i d e , t h i s i s b e c o m i n g

21l e s s a n d l e s s t h e c a s e . Tuition has more than

22d o u b l e d i n t h e l a s t t e n y e a r s , s u p p r e s s i n g

23i n c r e a s e s i n a v a i l a b l e a i d , r e s u l t i n g i n s t u d e n t s

24b e i n g p r i c e d o u t o f a c o l l e g e d e g r e e .

958

959
960
961 193
962

1 Fifty-four percent of traditional-age

2s t u d e n t s u n d e r a g e 2 5 i n M i n n e s o t a d o n o t r e c e i v e

3p a r e n t a l c o n t r i b u t i o n s t o w a r d t h e i r e d u c a t i o n a l

4e x p e n s e s , y e t p a r e n t a l i n c o m e i s c o n s i d e r e d i n t h e

5f i n a n c i a l a i d p r o c e s s f o r m o s t o f t h e s e s t u d e n t s ,

6e x c l u d i n g m a n y o f t h e m f r o m r e c e i v i n g n e e d - b a s e d

7g r a n t s a n d s u b s i d i z e d l o a n s . Private loans or

8p u b l i c u n s u b s i d i z e d l o a n s q u i c k l y b e c o m e t h e o n l y

9m e t h o d o f f i n a n c i n g h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n f o r t h e s e

10s t u d e n t s .

11 Although I took advantage of earning

12c o l l e g e c r e d i t s w h i l e s t i l l i n h i g h s c h o o l , m y

13p a r e n t s h a v e b e e n a b l e t o a s s i s t m e t h u s f a r .

14S o o n e n o u g h , I t o o w i l l b e f o r c e d t o b o r r o w t o

15c o n t i n u e m y e d u c a t i o n a l p u r s u i t s , a b u r d e n t h a t

16n e i t h e r m y s e l f , n o r m y f a m i l y i s p r e p a r e d f o r .

17T h i s y e a r , m y f a m i l y i s f a c e d w i t h a d i f f i c u l t

18d e c i s i o n . My parents’ income, collectively,

19d i s q u a l i f y m e f o r s t u d e n t a i d , b u t a r e n o t e n o u g h

20t o b e a b l e t o a c t u a l l y a f f o r d m y e d u c a t i o n w i t h o u t

21p u t t i n g a h u g e s t r a i n o n t h e i r f i n a n c e s .

22 Without many options, and with

23s k y r o c k e t i n g i n t e r e s t r a t e s o n s t u d e n t l o a n s , m y

24d a d d e c i d e d t o j u s t b i t e t h e b u l l e t a n d p a y f o r m y

963

964
965
966 194
967

1e d u c a t i o n . I do not know how long he is going to

2b e a b l e t o k e e p t h a t u p , t h o u g h . I will soon join

3t h e m a j o r i t y o f s t u d e n t s f i n a n c i n g t h e i r e d u c a t i o n

4o n s t u d e n t l o a n s a n d a c c u m u l a t i n g d e b t . High

5s t u d e n t l o a n i n t e r e s t r a t e s c o m p o u n d t h e s t i c k e r

6s h o c k t h a t h i g h s c h o o l g r a d u a t e s a n d t h e i r p a r e n t s

7f a c e w h e n l o o k i n g a t i n v e s t i n g i n h i g h e r

8e d u c a t i o n . Many are wary of accepting the high

9d e b t b u r d e n n e c e s s a r y t o a t t e n d c o l l e g e .

10 For those that do go to college, what

11h a p p e n s i f t h e y f a l l o n h a r d t i m e s a f t e r

12c o m p l e t i n g t h e i r d e g r e e ? College graduation is

13m e a n t t o b e a t i m e o f c e l e b r a t i o n a n d d r e a m s o f

14w h a t t h e f u t u r e h o l d s , b u t t h e g r o w i n g c o n c e r n o f

15c o l l e g e g r a d u a t e s i s t h e i r s u b s t a n t i a l d e b t l o a d s ,

16a n d i t i s t e r r i f y i n g . Graduates facing economic

17r o a d b l o c k s a r e r e q u i r e d t o m a k e t o u g h d e c i s i o n s

18s i m p l y t o m a k e l o a n p a y m e n t s . Would you choose

19b e t w e e n h e a l t h i n s u r a n c e , f o o d f o r y o u r f a m i l y , o r

20m a k i n g a l o a n p a y m e n t ?

21 For students entering the service sector,

22t h e q u e s t i o n i s n o t a m a t t e r o f w h e n e c o n o m i c

23h a r d s h i p w i l l c o m e , i t i s i f a b a s e s a l a r y c a n

24e v e n c o v e r t h e c o s t o f r e p a y i n g d e b t . The

968

969
970
971 195
972

1n a t i o n a l a v e r a g e s t a r t i n g s a l a r y f o r a t e a c h e r i n

2s c h o o l y e a r 2 0 0 3 - 2 0 0 4 w a s $ 3 1 , 7 0 4 . According to

3r e p o r t s , a n e w t e a c h e r w i t h t h a t i n c o m e w o u l d h a v e

4j u s t u n d e r $ 1 3 , 0 0 0 i n d i s c r e t i o n a r y i n c o m e . In

5t h e c a s e o f t h e a v e r a g e t e a c h e r , t h a t r e s u l t s i n a

6m a x i m u m p a y m e n t o f $ 4 , 5 8 6 . 5 0 a y e a r , o r $ 2 1 6 a

7m o n t h . That is about the cost of my car payment.

8T h i s l e a v e s j u s t o v e r $ 1 0 , 0 0 0 i n d i s c r e t i o n a r y

9i n c o m e , w h i c h , t o m e , i s n o t t h a t m u c h t o b a s e a

10f u t u r e o n .

11 I fear that, as an urban educator, I will

12h a v e t o t a k e t i m e a w a y f r o m p r e p a r i n g m y c l a s s e s

13t o w o r k a s e c o n d j o b j u s t t o r e p a y m y l o a n s . If

14t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n w e r e t o a l l o w m o r e

15a c c e s s i b l e h a r d s h i p d e f e r r a l s o n l o a n s t o g r a d u a t e

16r e p a y m e n t , i t w o u l d p r o v i d e p e a c e o f m i n d t o

17c o u n t l e s s s t u d e n t s a n d e n s u r e t h a t f e w e r g r a d u a t e s

18d e f a u l t o n t h e i r l o a n s , a l l o w i n g t h e m t o m a i n t a i n

19t h e c r e d i t t h e y s o d e s p e r a t e l y n e e d t o b e g i n t h e i r

20a d u l t l i v e s .

21 The default rate on student loans in

22M i n n e s o t a a v e r a g e 3 . 3 p e r c e n t i n 2 0 0 3 , b e l o w t h e

23n a t i o n a l a v e r a g e o f 4 . 5 p e r c e n t . However, in the

24p u b l i c t w o - y e a r s y s t e m , 1 8 o f 2 9 c o l l e g e s h a d a

973

974
975
976 196
977

1s t u d e n t l o a n d e f a u l t r a t e a b o v e t h e n a t i o n a l

2a v e r a g e . On the high end, Fond du Lac Community

3C o l l e g e , a c o l l e g e w i t h a s u b s t a n t i a l A m e r i c a n

4I n d i a n p o p u l a t i o n , h a d a d e f a u l t r a t e o f 2 1 . 8

5p e r c e n t . America cannot afford a future of

6i n d e b t e d g r a d u a t e s , o r w o r s e , a f i n a n c i a l l y

7i n a c c e s s i b l e e d u c a t i o n a l s y s t e m , e s p e c i a l l y f o r

8s t u d e n t s o f c o l o r .

9 The public two-year college system that I

10r e p r e s e n t e d u c a t e s m o r e t h a n 5 0 p e r c e n t o f

11M i n n e s o t a ’ s f u t u r e , w h i c h I h o p e w i l l s o o n i n c l u d e

12m e - - 7 8 p e r c e n t o f t h e s t a t e ’ s n u r s e s , a n d 9 2

13p e r c e n t o f t h e l a w e n f o r c e m e n t o f f i c e r s . These

14o c c u p a t i o n s a r e c r i t i c a l t o p r e s e r v i n g t h e h i g h

15q u a l i t y o f l i f e i n o u r c o u n t r y , o u r s t a t e s , a n d

16o u r c o m m u n i t i e s . Cracks in the current system are

17a l r e a d y b e g i n n i n g t o s h o w . Over the next decade,

18A m e r i c a w i l l h a v e t o r e c r u i t 2 m i l l i o n n e w

19t e a c h e r s t o f i l l o u r n a t i o n ’ s c l a s s r o o m s . Two-

20t h i r d s o f g r a d u a t e s t o d a y h a v e s t u d e n t l o a n s .

21 With significant debt, students will see

22l i t t l e i n c e n t i v e t o m o v e i n t o t h e s e l o w - p a y i n g b u t

23e s s e n t i a l j o b s . By providing for loan repayment

24p l a n s t h a t a r e i n c o m e d e p e n d e n t , a n d c a n c e l l i n g

978

979
980
981 197
982

1l o a n s a f t e r 2 0 y e a r s o f o n - t i m e p a y m e n t s , t h e

2D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n w o u l d s t o p s t u d e n t s f r o m

3h a v i n g t o c h o o s e w h a t t h e y w a n t t o d o w i t h t h e i r

4l i v e s a n d w h a t t h e y n e e d t o d o t o r e p a y t h e i r

5d e b t .

6 As I mentioned earlier, my field of study

7i s u r b a n e d u c a t i o n , a n d I a m p e r s o n a l l y f a c i n g

8t h i s d e c i s i o n . In order to gain licensure, I must

9h a v e a b a c h e l o r ’ s d e g r e e f r o m a f o u r - y e a r

10i n s t i t u t i o n . By the time I am done with that,

11d e s p i t e m y p a r e n t s ’ a s s i s t a n c e t h i s y e a r , I w i l l

12h a v e b e t w e e n $ 2 0 - a n d $ 3 0 , 0 0 0 w o r t h o f d e b t . With

13a p o t e n t i a l s t a r t i n g i n c o m e a s l o w a s $ 2 3 , 0 0 0 a

14y e a r i n M i n n e s o t a , n e a r l y $ 8 , 0 0 0 b e l o w t h e

15n a t i o n a l a v e r a g e , h o w c a n I a f f o r d h u n d r e d s o f

16d o l l a r s a m o n t h i n l o a n r e p a y m e n t ?

17 If I remain on my current path and nothing

18i s d o n e t o p r e v e n t r i s i n g t u i t i o n a n d i n t e r e s t

19r a t e s , i t w i l l b e n e a r l y i m p o s s i b l e f o r m e t o p a y

20o f f m y s c h o o l l o a n s . College and university

21s t u d e n t s a r e d r o w n i n g i n a s e a o f p o p q u i z z e s a n d

22d e b t . Although the quizzes are arguably in our

23f a v o r , t h e r e i s m u c h t o b e d o n e a b o u t u n m a n a g e a b l e

24d e b t .

983

984
985
986 198
987

1 The ability of the financial aid system to

2l e s s e n t h e d e b t o b s t a c l e s t h a t s t u d e n t s f a c e i n

3p l a n n i n g t h e i r f u t u r e s w o u l d a l l o w m o r e i n c l u s i v e

4a c c e s s t o h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a n d i n c r e a s e l i k e l i h o o d

5o f s t u d e n t s u c c e s s . Congress seems to understand

6t h e p o t e n t i a l e f f e c t o f l o a n d e b t o n e d u c a t o r s

7b e c a u s e , i n t h e f a l l o f 2 0 0 4 , C o n g r e s s p a s s e d t h e

8T a x p a y e r T e a c h e r A c t o f 2 0 0 4 , w h i c h a l l o w s f o r

9l o a n f o r g i v e n e s s f o r m a t h , s c i e n c e , a n d l a n g u a g e

10t e a c h e r s w i t h f i v e y e a r s o f t e n u r e a t l o w - i n c o m e

11s c h o o l s . While this legislation is a positive

12s t e p , i t f a i l s t o a d d r e s s t h e g r o w i n g p r o b l e m o f

13h o w t o r e c r u i t 2 m i l l i o n c o l l e g e g r a d u a t e s i n t o a

14l o w p a y i n g c a r e e r w h e n m a n y m u s t b e g i n m a k i n g

15s t u d e n t l o a n p a y m e n t s w i t h i n a f e w m o n t h s i n t o

16t h e i r f i r s t s e m e s t e r o f t e a c h i n g .

17 Students such as me, who are facing

18s i g n i f i c a n t c h a l l e n g e s a n d c h o i c e s b e t w e e n w h a t w e

19w a n t t o d o a n d w h a t w e c a n a f f o r d t o d o , w i l l

20u l t i m a t e l y f e e l m o r e s t r o n g l y t h e p u l l o f l o a n

21d e b t o v e r c a r e e r c h o i c e . Teachers, social

22w o r k e r s , n o n - p r o f i t c o m m u n i t y w o r k e r s , a n d t h e

23p e r f o r m i n g a r t s , w h i c h r e p r e s e n t a w h o l e s e c t o r o f

24l o w p a y i n g b u t s o c i a l l y v a l u a b l e c a r e e r s a r e

988

989
990
991 199
992

1c r i t i c a l f o r a s t r o n g a n d f l o u r i s h i n g n a t i o n .

2 MSCSA strongly encourages the Department

3o f E d u c a t i o n t o c o n s i d e r a l t e r n a t i v e l o a n

4r e p a y m e n t , h a r d s h i p , a n d f o r g i v e n e s s a c t i o n s t h a t

5l e s s e n t h e d e b t l o a d s a n d b e n e f i t t h e n a t i o n a l a n d

6l o c a l e c o n o m i e s , a s w e l l a s s o c i e t y a t l a r g e .

7 Thank you, again, for your consideration.

8 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Nichelle Bottko.

10 NICHELLE BOTTKO: Hello, I am Nichelle

11B o t t k o . I am the Director of Development for the

12M i n n e s o t a S t a t e C o l l e g e S t u d e n t A s s o c i a t i o n , a n d I

13a m a l s o a p r o u d s t u d e n t o f S t . P a u l T e c h n i c a l

14C o l l e g e .

15 I would like to thank you for allowing me

16t o s p e a k t o y o u t o d a y t o s h a r e w i t h y o u a l i t t l e

17a b o u t m y w o r r i e s , m y p e r s o n a l s t o r y , a n d h o w i t

18r e l a t e s t o s t u d e n t s a t t e m p t i n g t o a t t e n d c o l l e g e

19a n d f u r t h e r t h e m s e l v e s i n l i f e .

20 As a young person whose life is

21c o n s i s t e n t l y f i l l e d w i t h s t u d e n t w o r r i e s , I

22s o m e t i m e s f o r g e t t h a t t h e p l i g h t o f t h e a v e r a g e

23s t u d e n t t o d a y i s n o t r e a d i l y a p p a r e n t t o t h o s e w h o

24a r e n o t c u r r e n t l y e n r o l l e d . It was not that long

993

994
995
996 200
997

1a g o t h a t a p e r s o n c o u l d p a y f o r c o l l e g e o f f o f t h e

2m o n e y t h a t t h e y e a r n e d w h i l e w o r k i n g a s u m m e r j o b .

3T h e y c o u l d l e a v e w i t h t h e i r e d u c a t i o n a n d v e r y

4l i t t l e , i f a n y , c o l l e g e l o a n s t o w e i g h t h e m d o w n .

5 It seems that the entire world has changed

6i n j u s t a f e w s h o r t y e a r s . I am a typical,

7t r a d i t i o n a l - a g e d c o l l e g e s t u d e n t . I take classes,

8a n d I w o r k a l o t t o t r y a n d p a y f o r t h e m .

9A l t h o u g h I o w n a h o u s e w i t h m y b r o t h e r , a n d m y

10p a r e n t s a r e u n a b l e t o c o n t r i b u t e t o m y e d u c a t i o n ,

11t h e i r i n c o m e s t i l l c o u n t s a g a i n s t m e w h e n m y

12f i n a n c i a l a i d i s c a l c u l a t e d . Because of this, I

13a m n o t e l i g i b l e f o r a n y k i n d o f a i d o t h e r t h a n

14l o a n s , a n d t h e l o a n s t h a t I d o r e c e i v e d o n o t

15c o v e r t h e c o s t o f a f u l l - t i m e c o l l e g e c l a s s l o a d ,

16l e t a l o n e b o o k s o r o t h e r l i v i n g e x p e n s e s .

17 One of the greatest challenges that I face

18a s a s t u d e n t i s d e b t . I worry about a future that

19i n c l u d e s h i g h m o n t h l y p a y m e n t s c o m b i n e d w i t h e v e r -

20i n c r e a s i n g i n t e r e s t r a t e s . The high cost of

21s t u d e n t d e b t h a s a l r e a d y f o r c e d m e t o m a k e t o u g h

22d e c i s i o n s t h a t w i l l h a v e a l i f e l o n g i m p a c t . I

23h a v e a l r e a d y c h a n g e d m y c a r e e r p a t h . Like our

24M S C S A t r e a s u r e r , K a t i e , I i n i t i a l l y w a n t e d t o

998

999
1000
1001 201
1002

1b e c o m e a t e a c h e r . Although teaching is a very

2r e w a r d i n g c a r e e r , i t w a s w a y t o o m u c h t o t h i n k

3a b o u t t h e k i n d s o f l o a n s t h a t I w o u l d h a v e

4c o l l e c t e d b y t h e t i m e I h a d g r a d u a t e d .

5 Figuring out how to pay them with a

6t e a c h e r ’ s s a l a r y w a s e v e n m o r e d a u n t i n g . Because

7o f t h i s , I d e c i d e d t o b e c o m e a n A m e r i c a n S i g n

8L a n g u a g e i n t e r p r e t e r . I chose this program

9b e c a u s e I c o u l d e a r n a t w o - y e a r d e g r e e a n d t h e n

10e n t e r t h e w o r k f o r c e . This career, however, will

11n o t s a t i s f y a l l m y f u t u r e n e e d s a n d , a f t e r I

12c o m p l e t e m y t w o - y e a r d e g r e e , I w i l l b e w o r k i n g o n

13d e g r e e s i n b u s i n e s s m a r k e t i n g a n d a l s o c o m m u n i t y

14d e v e l o p m e n t .

15 Students today, like myself, are already

16d o i n g e v e r y t h i n g t h e y c a n t o r e d u c e t h e i r l e v e l s

17o f d e b t . Gone are the days when a student could

18e a r n a y e a r , o r e v e n a s e m e s t e r ’ s w o r t h , o f

19t u i t i o n a t a s u m m e r j o b . Today, students are

20f o r c e d t o m a k e d i f f i c u l t a n d s o m e t i m e s d e t r i m e n t a l

21f i n a n c i a l d e c i s i o n s i n o r d e r t o s t a y a f l o a t .

22S t u d e n t s a r e t a k i n g f e w c l a s s e s , w h i c h i s

23p r o l o n g i n g t h e i r e d u c a t i o n , i n o r d e r t o p a y f o r

24t h e i r l i v i n g e x p e n s e s a n d h o l d d o w n t h e i r l o n g -

1003

1004
1005
1006 202
1007

1t e r m d e b t .

2 In the MNSCU system, 25 percent of

3s t u d e n t s r e p o r t u s i n g c r e d i t c a r d s t o p a y f o r

4t h e i r t u i t i o n a n d f e e s , a n d 3 7 p e r c e n t u s e c r e d i t

5c a r d s t o p a y f o r t e x t b o o k s a n d s u p p l i e s . Some

6s t u d e n t s a r e c o n c l u d i n g t h a t t h e h i g h d e b t l o a d i s

7t o o m u c h t o t a k e o n a n d a r e l e a v i n g s c h o o l , o r n o t

8c o n s i d e r i n g h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a t a l l . America

9c a n n o t a f f o r d t o l o s e t h i s c r u c i a l r e s o u r c e , a n d

10e d u c a t e d w o r k f o r c e , w h i c h p r o v i d e s i n n u m e r a b l e

11s o c i o - e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s .

12 In their 2005 report, “How Much Debt is

13T o o M u c h ? ” S a n d y B a u m a n d S a u l S c h w a r t z a t t e m p t e d

14t o e x p l a i n t h e h i s t o r y o f p r e v i o u s e f f o r t s t o

15a n a l y z e u n m a n a g e a b l e d e b t a s 8 p e r c e n t p r e - t a x

16i n c o m e . They suggested that the 8 percent rule is

17a l e n d e r b e n c h m a r k t h a t a r o s e f r o m m o r t g a g e

18u n d e r w r i t i n g s t a n d a r d s a n d i s n o t a p p r o p r i a t e f o r

19m e a s u r i n g t h e b u r d e n s o m e u n d e r g r a d u a t e d e b t . They

20g o o n t o s u g g e s t t h a t , i n o r d e r t o p r o t e c t l o w -

21i n c o m e g r a d u a t e s , a n y o n e e a r n i n g l e s s t h a n h a l f o f

22t h e m e d i a n i n d i v i d u a l i n c o m e i n t h e U . S . s h o u l d

23n o t b e e x p e c t e d t o m a k e a n y l o a n p a y m e n t s . They

24s u g g e s t t h a t t h o s e i n t h e u p p e r e n d o f t h e w a g e

1008

1009
1010
1011 203
1012

1e a r n i n g s p e c t r u m s h o u l d p a y m o r e t h a n 1 7 - 2 0

2p e r c e n t o f t h e i r p r e - t a x i n c o m e o n t h e i r d e b t ,

3w h i l e t h o s e s o m e w h e r e i n b e t w e e n s h o u l d n o t p a y

4m o r e t h a n 2 0 p e r c e n t o f t h e i r d i s c r e t i o n a r y

5i n c o m e , w h i c h i s d e f i n e d a s i n c o m e e x c e e d i n g h a l f

6o f t h e m e d i a n e a r n i n g s .

7 Now, those numbers may be a little hard to

8f o l l o w , b u t t h e r e s u l t i s t h a t u s i n g t h i s

9b e n c h m a r k t o a n a l y z e s t a r t i n g s a l a r i e s a n d

10m e a s u r i n g u n m a n a g e a b l e d e b t , w e c a n s e e t h a t

11t o d a y ’ s e d u c a t o r s w i l l b e f a c i n g u n m a n a g e a b l e d e b t

12l o a n s , a l o n g w i t h m a n y l o w - p a y i n g p u b l i c s e r v i c e

13c a r e e r s , w h i c h a r e v i t a l c o n t r i b u t o r s t o A m e r i c a n

14s o c i e t y a n d t h e o v e r a l l e c o n o m y .

15 Even after changing my degree aspirations

16d u e t o h i g h t u i t i o n a n d l o w i n t e r e s t r a t e s , I h a v e

17h a d t o m a k e m o r e c o n c e s s i o n s a s a s t u d e n t . I

18t r i e d t o l e s s e n m y d e p e n d e n c e o n l o a n s b y w o r k i n g

19f o u r j o b s , b u t w o r k i n g 4 0 - 5 0 h o u r s a w e e k a l s o h a s

20i t s c o s t s . Work greatly limits a lot of time that

21I c a n s p e n d s t u d y i n g , a n d h a s e v e n r e s u l t e d i n

22t a k i n g s m a l l e r c o u r s e l o a d s , d e l a y i n g m y

23g r a d u a t i o n w i t h a t w o - y e a r d e g r e e .

24 I am not alone. Forty-nine percent of

1013

1014
1015
1016 204
1017

1w o r k i n g s t u d e n t s i n M i n n e s o t a s a y t h a t t h e i r j o b

2w i l l l e n g t h e n t h e a m o u n t o f t i m e t h a t i t t a k e s f o r

3t h e m t o c o m p l e t e t h e i r e d u c a t i o n . Coordinating a

4w o r k s c h e d u l e a n d a s c h o o l s c h e d u l e i s a l s o a

5p r o b l e m . Because of class time constraints that

6c e r t a i n c l a s s e s p u t o n m y s c h e d u l e , I h a v e h a d t o

7w o r k s e v e r a l p a r t - t i m e , l e s s e r - p a y i n g j o b s , j u s t

8s o I c a n a f f o r d t u i t i o n a n d b o o k s f o r t h e c l a s s e s

9t h a t I n e e d .

10 I did not start out in debt. Part of the

11p r o b l e m i s t h a t , o v e r t h e p a s t s e v e r a l y e a r s , t h e

12m i d d l e c l a s s h a s b e e n p r i c e d o u t o f a h i g h e r

13e d u c a t i o n . A study released this year from the

14M i n n e s o t a O f f i c e o f H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n s h o w s t h a t

15t h e n u m b e r o f s t u d e n t s w i t h a h o u s e h o l d i n c o m e

16b e t w e e n $ 6 0 , 0 0 0 a n d $ 9 0 , 0 0 0 w h o w e r e t o t a k e o u t

17e d u c a t i o n a l l o a n s r o s e 1 2 p e r c e n t b e t w e e n 2 0 0 0 a n d

182 0 0 4 . I know, however, that I am one of the lucky

19o n e s , e v e n t h o u g h I h a v e h a d t o m a k e s o m e t o u g h

20d e c i s i o n s .

21 My brother, who is only a year younger

22t h a n m e , i s i n t h e s a m e p r e d i c a m e n t I a m i n . The

23d i f f e r e n c e i s t h a t h e w a s u n a b l e t o s t a y

24p r o d u c t i v e i n s c h o o l a n d t o m a k e e n d s m e e t w i t h

1018

1019
1020
1021 205
1022

1t h e j o b t h a t h e h a d . Instead, he now works full-

2t i m e a n d , f o r t h e t i m e b e i n g , h a s p u t o f f c o l l e g e

3e d u c a t i o n a l t o g e t h e r .

4 I know another two-year college student

5w h o h a s , o u t o f d e s p e r a t i o n , a n d l a c k o f a n o t h e r

6v i a b l e o p t i o n , d e c i d e d t o p a y f o r h e r c l a s s e s

7u s i n g c r e d i t c a r d s .

8 Many of the non-traditional students who

9a r e e s t a b l i s h e d e c o n o m i c a l l y a r e f i n d i n g

10t h e m s e l v e s m a k i n g t o u g h d e c i s i o n s , a l s o , o f

11w h e t h e r t o f i n a n c e t h e i r o w n e d u c a t i o n , o r t o s a v e

12f o r t h e i r c h i l d ’ s . I can tell you for a fact that

13h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a n d t h e p r o s p e c t o f n e v e r - e n d i n g

14s t u d e n t d e b t h a v e s t o p p e d s t u d e n t s t o c h o o s e t o

15e n r o l l i n c l a s s e s .

16 Not only has my brother given up a higher

17e d u c a t i o n , b u t m y m o t h e r , w h o w o u l d l o v e t o

18c o m p l e t e a t w o - y e a r d e g r e e , h a s a l s o g i v e n u p .

19A f t e r s e e i n g m y s t r u g g l e , a n d m y b r o t h e r g i v i n g u p

20o n h i s c o l l e g e e d u c a t i o n a l t o g e t h e r , s h e a n d m y

21d a d a r e t r y i n g t h e i r h a r d e s t j u s t t o b e i n a p l a c e

22w h e r e t h e y c a n h e l p m y t w o t e e n a g e s i s t e r s a f t e r

23t h e y g r a d u a t e f r o m h i g h s c h o o l .

24 Student debt is a very real problem and,

1023

1024
1025
1026 206
1027

1f o r s t u d e n t s l i k e m e , i t i s u n a v o i d a b l e . It

2a f f e c t s t h e c h o i c e s t h a t I m a k e e v e r y d a y . MSCSA

3s t r o n g l y e n c o u r a g e s t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n t o

4t a k e n o t i c e o f t h e d i s a s t r o u s c o n s e q u e n c e s t h a t

5u n m a n a g e a b l e l o a n r e p a y m e n t a n d i n c r e a s i n g

6i n t e r e s t r a t e s h a v e d a m a g e d . If graduates were

7p r o v i d e d w i t h i n c o m e d e m a n d r e p a y m e n t o p t i o n s a n d

8c a n c e l a b l e d e b t a f t e r 2 0 y e a r s o f r e g u l a r

9p a y m e n t s , a n d p r e v e n t a t i v e m e a s u r e s t o s t o p

10i n t e r e s t r a t e s f r o m d e e p e n i n g t h e p r o b l e m s w i t h

11b o r r o w e r s f a c i n g h a r d s h i p s i t u a t i o n s , f u t u r e

12g r a d u a t e s o f m y g e n e r a t i o n w o u l d n o t b e s h a c k l e d

13t o d e b t , a n d t h e y w o u l d s e e t h e l i g h t a t t h e e n d

14o f t h e t u n n e l .

15 Thank you very much for this opportunity

16t o s h a r e m y s t o r y w i t h y o u t o d a y .

17 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

18 DAN MADZELAN: Okay. We are going to take

19a b o u t a t e n - m i n u t e b r e a k . We will back at about

202 : 4 0 .

21 [Brief recess.]

22 DAN MADZELAN: Well, let us reconvene this

23a f t e r n o o n .

24 DAN MADZELAN: Rebecca Myers.

1028

1029
1030
1031 207
1032

1 REBECCA MYERS: Hello, my name is Rebecca

2M y e r s , a n d I a m a c t u a l l y a g r a d u a t e s t u d e n t h e r e

3a t L o y o l a U n i v e r s i t y C h i c a g o . I am in the

4m a s t e r ’ s s o c i a l w o r k p r o g r a m , a n d I w i l l g r a d u a t e

5i n M a y , h o p e f u l l y .

6 I am not from any student government or

7a n y o r g a n i z a t i o n h e r e o n c a m p u s . I just found out

8a b o u t i t a n d d i d n o t w a n t t o m i s s t h e o p p o r t u n i t y

9t o s h a r e m y s t o r y w i t h y o u g u y s . I apologize if

10i t i s a l i t t l e b i t s c a t t e r b r a i n e d . I did not have

11a l o t o f t i m e t o p u t t h i n g s t o g e t h e r .

12 I went to Ohio State for my undergraduate.

13I g o t a b a c h e l o r o f a r t s i n S p a n i s h a n d a b a c h e l o r

14o f s c i e n c e i n s o c i a l w o r k i n f o u r y e a r s . Before I

15e v e n s t a r t e d c l a s s e s , y o u k n o w , I f i l l e d o u t t h e

16i n f a m o u s F A F S A , a n d d i d a l l t h a t b y m y s e l f . My

17p a r e n t s w e r e n o t i n v o l v e d i n a n y o f i t . I had to

18p a y f o r s c h o o l a l l b y m y s e l f . I ended up going

19i n t o t h e f i n a n c i a l a i d o f f i c e a n d s i g n i n g a l l t h e

20p a p e r s , n o t r e a l l y k n o w i n g w h a t I w a s g e t t i n g

21i n t o .

22 I had difficulties, also, because I had to

23r e c o r d a l l o f m y p a r e n t s ’ s a l a r i e s a n d e v e r y t h i n g

24o n t h e F A F S A , b u t i t w a s n o t t a k e n i n t o

1033

1034
1035
1036 208
1037

1c o n s i d e r a t i o n t h a t t h e y d i d n o t h e l p m e w i t h

2a n y t h i n g d u r i n g m y s c h o o l i n g , s o i t w a s d i f f i c u l t

3t o g e t g r a n t s . I was not eligible for a lot of

4t h i n g s .

5 So I graduated with, actually, not as much

6d e b t a s m o s t o f m y p e e r s . I was very lucky. I

7w o r k e d t w o j o b s f o r t h e m a j o r i t y o f m y c o l l e g e

8c a r e e r , m y u n d e r g r a d u a t e c a r e e r . After that, I

9w a s a c o u n s e l o r i n M e x i c o . I lived there for a

10y e a r . I took a year off and went back home to

11C a l i f o r n i a , t o m y h o m e s t a t e , a n d h a d d i f f i c u l t i e s

12f i n d i n g a j o b t h a t w o u l d p a y e n o u g h f o r m e t o m a k e

13a l i v i n g w a g e , a s w e l l a s p a y o f f m y s t u d e n t d e b t .

14 For instance, I was offered a job that I

15w a s i n t e r e s t e d i n t a k i n g . I was qualified to do

16i t . I had been trained to do the specific work,

17w o r k i n g w i t h s e v e r e l y e m o t i o n a l l y d i s t u r b e d

18a d o l e s c e n t m a l e s i n a g r o u p h o m e f o r t h e n i g h t

19s h i f t , a n d t h e y p a i d $ 1 0 a n h o u r . I just knew

20t h a t I h a v e t o g o b a c k t o s c h o o l . I have to get

21m y m a s t e r ’ s d e g r e e . This is not going to cut it.

22 So I moved out here to Chicago just a few

23m o n t h s a g o t o g e t m y m a s t e r ’ s d e g r e e a n d g e t m y

24M S W . So, hopefully, I will be able to get a job

1038

1039
1040
1041 209
1042

1t h a t p a y s a l i t t l e b i t b e t t e r o n c e I f i n i s h a n d

2r e a l l y e n t e r t h e f i e l d . The problem now, however,

3i s t h a t I ’ m a c c r u i n g t r i p l e t h e a m o u n t o f l o a n s

4t h a t I h a d a s a n u n d e r g r a d u a t e . Like I said, it

5i s v e r y d i f f i c u l t f o r a s o c i a l w o r k e r t o f i n d w o r k

6o n c e w e g r a d u a t e t h a t i s g o i n g t o p a y e n o u g h f o r

7u s t o m a k e a w a g e , a s w e l l a s p a y o f f a l l o u r

8s t u d e n t l o a n s .

9 I know that a lot of us in my program are

10h a v i n g d i f f i c u l t y a p p l y i n g f o r j o b s t h a t w e d o n o t

11n e c e s s a r i l y w a n t , b u t w e h a v e t o t a k e b e c a u s e t h a t

12i s w h a t i s g o i n g t o p a y u s t h e m o n e y t h a t w e n e e d

13t o p a y o f f t h e s e l o a n s . So a lot of these jobs

14w h e r e w e r e a l l y n e e d p e o p l e w h o c a r e a n d h a v e a

15h e a r t t o d o t h e s e t h i n g s , w o r k i n g w i t h t h e s e t y p e s

16o f k i d s , m e n t a l l y i l l , o r w h a t e v e r t h e s p e c i f i c

17f i e l d o f s o c i a l w o r k t h a t i t m a y b e . A lot of us

18a r e h a v i n g t o p a s s w h a t w e r e a l l y w a n t t o d o a n d

19a r e t r a i n e d t o b e c a u s e i t j u s t d o e s n o t p a y

20e n o u g h , a n d w e a r e h a v i n g t o g o i n t o o t h e r f i e l d s ,

21s o m e t i m e s , t o p a y o f f t h e s e l o a n s .

22 So I know that there is no easy answer for

23w h a t w e n e e d t o d o t o f i x t h e p r o b l e m s t h a t I k n o w

24a l l o f u s a r e f a c i n g a s s t u d e n t s , b u t I t h a n k y o u

1043

1044
1045
1046 210
1047

1f o r r e c o g n i z i n g t h a t i t i s a n i s s u e , a n d

2r e c o g n i z i n g t h a t t h i s c o u n t r y i s r e a l l y p u t t i n g

3o u t a h u g e n u m b e r o f y o u n g a d u l t s w h o a r e i n

4s e r i o u s d e b t , a n d I j u s t t h a n k y o u f o r m a k i n g i t a

5c o n c e r n o f y o u r s a n d f o r l i s t e n i n g t o o u r

6c o n c e r n s . So I am just very grateful, and I thank

7y o u f o r l i s t e n i n g t o m y s t o r y a n d t a k i n g t h e t i m e .

8 Thank you.

9 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

10 DAN MADZELAN: Steve Schulz.

11 STEVE SCHULZ: Good afternoon. My name is

12S t e v e S c h u l z . I am a staff member with Marquette

13U n i v e r s i t y i n M i l w a u k e e , l i k e o u r h o s t i n s t i t u t i o n

14t o d a y , a C a t h o l i c J e s u i t i n s t i t u t i o n a n d a m e m b e r

15o f t h e A s s o c i a t i o n o f J e s u i t C o l l e g e s a n d

16U n i v e r s i t i e s .

17 We are a doctoral research university with

18m o r e t h a n 1 1 , 5 0 0 s t u d e n t s , a n d w e a r e t h e l a r g e s t

19p r i v a t e i n s t i t u t i o n i n t h e s t a t e o f W i s c o n s i n . We

20a r e a l s o o n e o f o n l y t w o w i t h a l a w s c h o o l i n t h e

21s t a t e , a s w e l l .

22 I will make a few brief remarks. I will

23p r e f a c e t h e m b y s a y i n g t h a t w e a p p r e c i a t e t h e

24o p p o r t u n i t y t h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n h a s

1048

1049
1050
1051 211
1052

1m a d e t o m a k e s o m e c o m m e n t s . However, we do note,

2a s o t h e r s h a v e , t h a t t h i s t a k e s p l a c e d u r i n g t h e

3n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g p r o c e s s , t a k i n g p l a c e

4c o n c u r r e n t l y w i t h t h e r e a u t h o r i z a t i o n o f t h e

5H i g h e r E d u c a t i o n A c t . And, to that end, as others

6h a v e , w e w o u l d u r g e t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n t o

7l i m i t i t s n e g o t i a t i o n s g o i n g f o r w a r d t o i s s u e s

8t h a t a r e n o t g o v e r n e d b y r e l e v a n t s t a t u t o r y

9a u t h o r i t y .

10 That said let me take a micro-view, first,

11i n t e r m s o f A C G a n d S M A R T , a n d t h e n a b i t o f a

12m a c r o o n e i n s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l a i d . We concur

13s u b s t a n t i a l l y w i t h w h a t D a n M a n n a n d E r i c W e e m s

14a d v o c a t e d t h i s m o r n i n g w i t h t h i s p a n e l , i n t h a t w e

15a r e a l w a y s g r a t e f u l f o r F e d e r a l s t u d e n t f i n a n c i a l

16a i d . That said we certainly have some suggestion

17o f h o w t o i m p r o v e a d m i n i s t r a t i o n f o r A C G a n d

18S M A R T , i n p a r t i c u l a r .

19 Our experiences have come typically in

20a d m i n i s t r a t i v e g u i d a n c e f r o m t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f

21E d u c a t i o n , a s w e l l a s s o m e p r o b l e m a t i c i s s u e s . I

22w i l l j u s t h i g h l i g h t a c o u p l e , t h a t a r e a t t h e t o p

23o f t h e m i n d f o r u s . There has been substantial

24c o n f u s i o n t o t h e i n t e r p r e t a t i o n o f g r a n t s r a t e d t o

1053

1054
1055
1056 212
1057

1a s t u d e n t ’ s a c a d e m i c y e a r i n e d u c a t i o n , a s o p p o s e d

2t o t h e i r c l a s s s t a n d i n g i n t h e i r f i e l d o f s t u d y .

3T h e i n i t i a l g u i d a n c e t h a t w e r e c e i v e d i n d i c a t e d

4t h a t , i n o r d e r f o r a s t u d e n t t o q u a l i f y f o r a

5f i r s t - y e a r A C G , t h a t i n d i v i d u a l h a d t o g r a d u a t e

6f r o m h i g h s c h o o l o n o r a f t e r J a n u a r y 1 . To

7q u a l i f y f o r a s e c o n d y e a r , t h e s t u d e n t h a d t o h a v e

8g r a d u a t e d o n o r a f t e r J a n u a r y 1 o f 2 0 0 5 .

9 We asked the Department of Education, if a

10s t u d e n t s e t o u t a y e a r , w o u l d t h e y q u a l i f y f o r a

11f i r s t - y e a r g r a n t i f t h e y w e r e a f r e s h m a n i n t h e

12c u r r e n t a c a d e m i c y e a r , a n d t h e a n s w e r c a m e b a c k

13t h a t t h e y w o u l d q u a l i f y , w h i c h w a s c o n t r a d i c t o r y

14t o t h e o r i g i n a l g u i d a n c e t h a t w a s p r o f f e r e d b y t h e

15D e p a r t m e n t .

16 We also asked on September 12, actually,

17a b o u t a s t u d e n t t h a t g r a d u a t e d f r o m h i g h s c h o o l

18t h i s p a s t J u n e m e t a l l o t h e r A C G c r i t e r i a , a n d h a d

19e n o u g h a d v a n c e d p l a c e m e n t c o u r s e s t o b e c l a s s i f i e d

20a s a s o p h o m o r e . We had asked the Department, does

21a s t u d e n t q u a l i f y f o r a f i r s t - y e a r o r a s e c o n d -

22y e a r g r a n t , a n d c a m e b a c k w i t h a r e s p o n s e i n t h e

23D e p a r t m e n t t h a t t h e y w e r e s t i l l d e t e r m i n i n g h o w t o

24h a n d l e A P c r e d i t . As of my last discussion with

1058

1059
1060
1061 213
1062

1o u r f i n a n c i a l a i d o f f i c e , t h a t s t u d e n t s t i l l h a d

2n o t b e e n a w a r d e d u n d e r A C G b e c a u s e t h a t

3d e t e r m i n a t i o n h a d n o t b e e n m a d e .

4 I would also remark that the Department e-

5m a i l t o s t u d e n t s a d v e r t i s i n g S M A R T a n d A C G i t s e l f

6c a u s e s o m e c o n f u s i o n . Because these grants are

7b a s e s p a r a l l e l e l i g i b i l i t y , M a r q u e t t e h a s f i e l d e d

8a l o t o f q u e s t i o n s f o r s t u d e n t s t h a t a r e

9a b s o l u t e l y c e r t a i n t h e y h a v e m e t t h e c r i t e r i a

10o u t l i n e d , o n l y t o f i n d o u t t h a t t h e y d o n o t

11q u a l i f y . For example, they transferred in middle

12o f l a s t y e a r . They are classified as continuing

13f r e s h m e n , s o t h e y a r e n e i t h e r a n e w f r e s h m a n n o r a

14s o p h o m o r e , a n d t h e r e f o r e i n e l i g i b l e u n d e r t h e

15g r a n t . We would also note that the Department has

16n o t a d v e r t i s e d P e l l G r a n t s i n t h e s a m e w a y t h a t

17t h e r e w a s p r o a c t i v e e f f o r t m a d e w i t h A C G a n d

18S M A R T .

19 In terms of administration, we would echo

20w h a t D a n a n d E r i c b o t h s a i d t h i s m o r n i n g , i n t e r m s

21o f - - w e a s k w h y o n l y U . S . c i t i z e n s a r e e l i g i b l e f o r

22t h i s p r o g r a m , u n l i k e e v e r y o t h e r T i t l e I V p r o g r a m

23t h a t w e a r e c u r r e n t l y i n v o l v e d w i t h .

24 JEFF TAYLOR: There is a very simple

1063

1064
1065
1066 214
1067

1a n s w e r f o r t h a t , a n d t h a t i s b e c a u s e t h e s t a t u t e

2i t s e l f r e q u i r e s t h a t s t u d e n t s w h o q u a l i f y f o r A C G

3o r S M A R T G r a n t s b e c i t i z e n s o f t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s .

4T h a t w a s C o n g r e s s ’ s r e s t r i c t i o n t h a t t h e y p l a c e d

5i n t h a t . That is a very clear restriction that we

6c a n n o t l e g a l l y g e t a r o u n d . So, for that to be

7c h a n g e d , C o n g r e s s w i l l h a v e t o d o i t .

8 Thank you.

9 STEVE SCHULZ: I understand. Thank you

10f o r c l a r i f y i n g .

11 Also, with regard to program

12a d m i n i s t r a t i o n , i n t e r m s o f t h e r i g o r o u s n a t u r e o f

13c u r r i c u l u m , a s w o r d e d w e a r e t a k i n g t h e w o r d o f

14p a r e n t s o r g u a r d i a n s o f h o m e - s c h o o l e d s t u d e n t s a s

15t o t h e n a t u r e o f a r i g o r o u s c u r r i c u l u m , a n d

16p e r m i t t i n g t h a t i n t e r p r e t a t i o n f o r h o m e - s c h o o l e d

17s t u d e n t s , a n d y e t d e m a n d i n g o t h e r s p r o v e t h e r i g o r

18o f t h e i r p r o g r a m a t a t r a d i t i o n a l h i g h s c h o o l . It

19i s a n i n c o n s i s t e n t a p p l i c a t i o n . We would ask, and

20a r e g l a d t o h e a r t h e a n n o u n c e m e n t , t h a t t h e r e w i l l

21b e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g o n t h a t p o i n t , a b o u t w h a t

22q u a l i f i e s a s r i g o r .

23 In short, our experience has been that

24s t u d e n t s i n p a r t i c u l a r a r e l o o k i n g a t s t a f f a t

1068

1069
1070
1071 215
1072

1s e v e r a l a t o u r o f f i c e s t h a t , h i s t o r i c a l l y , h a v e

2n o t b e e n i n v o l v e d i n t h e a d m i n i s t r a t i o n o f

3f i n a n c i a l a i d b e c a u s e o f h o w A C G a n d t h e S M A R T

4G r a n t w a s s e t u p . This was typically a student

5f i n a n c i a l a i d e f f o r t f o r u s . We have our

6r e g i s t r a r ’ s o f f i c e i n v o l v e d , a d m i s s i o n s - - t h e r e a r e

7m a n y f o l k s w h o a r e n o t e x p e r i e n c e d i n t h i s v e i n

8t h a t h a v e h a d t o c o m e i n , b e c a u s e o f t h e w a y t h e

9s y s t e m i s c u r r e n t l y w o r d e d , c u r r e n t l y b e i n g r u n .

10 The administrative burden that they are

11b e i n g a s k e d i n t h a t f o r m i s u n p r e c e d e n t e d , t o t h e

12e x t e n t t h a t t h e y h a v e n o t h a d t o h a v e t h a t

13j u r i s d i c t i o n b e f o r e . More broadly, students who

14q u a l i f y f o r t h e P e l l G r a n t a r e t h e m o s t n e e d i e s t

15s t u d e n t s , a n d a m o n g t h o s e w h o c a n l e a s t a f f o r d

16p o s t - s e c o n d a r y e d u c a t i o n , a n d y e t S M A R T a n d A C G

17b e n e f i t o n l y s o m e o f t h o s e s t u d e n t s b y a s s i s t i n g ,

18a g a i n , U . S . c i t i z e n s w h o h a v e h a d t h e o p p o r t u n i t y

19t o r e c e i v e a r i g o r o u s e d u c a t i o n , s u b j e c t t o

20d e f i n i t i o n , a n d d e c i d e e a r l y o n a m a j o r a n d a

21p a r t i c u l a r d i s c i p l i n e . Many students remain at a

22d i s a d v a n t a g e . The lack of additional funding for

23t h e m r i s k s s e n d i n g t h e w r o n g m e s s a g e b o t h t o

24c u r r e n t a n d p r o s p e c t i v e s t u d e n t s .

1073

1074
1075
1076 216
1077

1 The simple fact, as we have heard today,

2i s t h a t t h e r e i s n o t e n o u g h s u f f i c i e n t a i d o v e r a l l

3f o r s t u d e n t s i n n e e d , a n d o u r f e e l i n g i s t h a t

4p r o g r a m s s u c h a s A C G a n d S M A R T , a s c u r r e n t l y

5c o n f i g u r e d , d o n o t s u p p o r t a l r e a d y s c a r c e

6r e s o u r c e s a t t h e i n s t i t u t i o n a l l e v e l i n a i d i n g t h e

7m o s t n e e d y i n d i v i d u a l s . We are spending, in our

8v i e w , a n e x t r a o r d i n a r y a m o u n t o f t i m e h a v i n g t o

9s e t t h e s e u p , p l a n , i n t e r p r e t , a n d i m p l e m e n t f o r a

10r e l a t i v e l y s m a l l n u m b e r o f s t u d e n t s , w h e r e a s m o r e

11b r o a d - b a s e d p r o g r a m s , s u c h a s P e l l , r e m a i n

12s t a g n a n t i n t h e i r f u n d i n g a n d t h e i r a p p l i c a t i o n .

13 It is not, in our view, the most equitable

14d i s t r i b u t i o n o f m u c h n e e d e d a i d . We applaud the

15D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n , t h o u g h , i n s e e k i n g i n p u t

16o n A C G a n d S M A R T , a n d w e w i l l b e o f f e r i n g w r i t t e n

17c o m m e n t s , a s w e l l . We encourage the Department to

18c o n t i n u e w o r k w i t h h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n c o m m u n i t y

19l e g i s l a t o r s a n d o t h e r s t o e n h a n c e f i n a n c i a l a i d i n

20a p p r o p r i a t e w a y s .

21 Thank you for your time.

22 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

23 DAN MADZELAN: Just, also, a quick note on

24t h e a c a d e m i c y e a r q u e s t i o n . That has been a tough

1078

1079
1080
1081 217
1082

1n u t f o r u s , b e c a u s e t h e s t a t u t e f o r A C G a n d S M A R T

2d o e s s p e c i f i c a l l y s a y “ a c a d e m i c y e a r . ” There is a

3s p e c i f i c a c a d e m i c y e a r i n t h e s t a t u t e .

4 Now, there may be a disconnect there, in

5t h a t t h e d e f i n i t i o n o f a c a d e m i c y e a r i n t h e

6s t a t u t e i s m o r e o f a p r o g r a m m a t i c , n o t a n

7i n d i v i d u a l s t u d e n t , k i n d o f t h i n g . We have been

8s t r u g g l i n g t o f i g u r e o u t h o w t o r e c o n c i l e t h o s e .

9 Steve, I think you are waiting on your

10a n s w e r . I cannot share it with you right now,

11b e c a u s e i t i s i n i t s f i n a l s t a g e s o f c l e a r a n c e

12w i t h i n t h e D e p a r t m e n t , b u t I b e l i e v e t h a t a n s w e r

13i s i m m i n e n t , i f n o t b y t h e e n d o f c l o s e o f

14b u s i n e s s t o m o r r o w , t h e n t h e f i r s t p a r t o f n e x t

15w e e k , w h i c h i s n o t M o n d a y , s i n c e t h a t i s a h o l i d a y

16f o r u s .

17 DAN MADZELAN: Rebecca Thompson.

18 REBECCA THOMPSON: Good afternoon. My

19n a m e i s R e b e c c a T h o m p s o n . I am the Legislative

20D i r e c t o r f o r t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s S t u d e n t

21A s s o c i a t i o n .

22 USSA is the nation’s oldest and largest

23n a t i o n a l s t u d e n t o r g a n i z a t i o n , a n d w e a r e t h e

24o f f i c i a l l y r e c o g n i z e d v o i c e o f s t u d e n t s i n t h e

1083

1084
1085
1086 218
1087

1D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n , o n C a p i t o l H i l l , a n d i n

2t h e W h i t e H o u s e .

3 Today, I urge the Department of Education

4t o p r i o r i t i z e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n a c c e s s a n d

5a f f o r d a b i l i t y a s i t b e g i n s i t s n e g o t i a t e d

6r u l e m a k i n g p r o c e s s . The Spellings Commission

7r e p o r t e d t h a t n e t c o l l e g e c o s t s a t f o u r - y e a r

8p u b l i c u n i v e r s i t i e s w e r e 7 3 p e r c e n t o f a l o w -

9i n c o m e f a m i l y ’ s i n c o m e i n 2 0 0 5 , a s c o m p a r e d t o 5 7

10p e r c e n t i n 1 9 9 2 .

11 Access to higher education is a right, not

12a p r i v i l e g e , a n d s h o u l d b e a c c e s s i b l e t o a l l

13s t u d e n t s , r e g a r d l e s s o f t h e i r i n c o m e . Also, the

14i n c r e a s e i n t h e p r i c e o f c o l l e g e h a s e x c e e d e d

15p r i c e i n c r e a s e s i n a l l o t h e r s e c t o r s o f t h e

16e c o n o m y .

17 In addition to being the legislative

18d i r e c t o r f o r U S S A , I a m a l s o a r e c e n t c o l l e g e

19g r a d u a t e , w i t h a l m o s t $ 3 5 , 0 0 0 i n s t u d e n t l o a n s .

20L i k e m a n y o f t h e s t u d e n t s w h o h a v e s p o k e n t o d a y , I

21a m a l s o s t r u g g l i n g w i t h u n m a n a g e a b l e d e b t . Better

22y e t , I a m d r o w n i n g i n d e b t .

23 While more can be done on both the campus

24a n d t h e s t a t e l e v e l s t o r e d u c e t h e c o s t o f

1088

1089
1090
1091 219
1092

1s k y r o c k e t i n g t u i t i o n , w e u r g e t h e D e p a r t m e n t t o

2r e v i s e i t s r e g u l a t i o n s t o b e n e f i t m i l l i o n s o f

3s t u d e n t s w h o a r e s t r u g g l i n g j u s t l i k e m e . As the

4D e p a r t m e n t b e g i n s t o i m p l e m e n t t h e S p e l l i n g s

5C o m m i s s i o n r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s , I a s k y o u t o i n c r e a s e

6g r a n t a i d a n d m a k e s t u d e n t l o a n s m o r e m a n a g e a b l e .

7 USSA strongly supports the Commission’s

8r e c o m m e n d a t i o n t o i n c r e a s e t h e P e l l G r a n t t o c o v e r

97 0 p e r c e n t o f i n - s t a t e t u i t i o n c o s t . Doing so

10w i l l a l l o w c o u n t l e s s m o r e l o w - t o m i d d l e - i n c o m e

11s t u d e n t s a n o p p o r t u n i t y t o t a k e a d v a n t a g e o f a n

12o p p o r t u n i t y t h a t h a s b e e n t r a d i t i o n a l l y a v a i l a b l e

13t o t h e w e a l t h y , a s 9 0 p e r c e n t o f t h e f a s t e s t

14g r o w i n g j o b s i n t h e n e w i n f o r m a t i o n a n d s e r v i c e

15e c o n o m y w i l l r e q u i r e s o m e p o s t - s e c o n d a r y

16e d u c a t i o n .

17 Today, more than ever, it is important for

18t h e U . S . t o h a v e a n e d u c a t e d w o r k f o r c e w h o c a n

19t r u l y c o m p e t e i n t h e g l o b a l e c o n o m y . When

20n e g o t i a t i n g i t s c u r r e n t s t u d e n t l o a n r e g u l a t i o n s ,

21t h e r e a r e a v a r i e t y o f w a y s i n w h i c h t h e

22D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n c a n m a k e l o a n s m o r e

23m a n a g e a b l e .

24 The first is by limiting loan repayments

1093

1094
1095
1096 220
1097

1t o a p e r c e n t a g e o f a s t u d e n t ’ s i n c o m e . With more

2a n d m o r e s t u d e n t s t a k i n g o n t h e b u r d e n o f

3u n m a n a g e a b l e d e b t , h a v i n g a c o l l e g e d e g r e e w i l l

4e s s e n t i a l l y b e w o r t h l e s s i f s t u d e n t s a r e s p e n d i n g

5t h e m a j o r i t y o f t h e i r e a r n i n g s o n l o a n r e p a y m e n t s .

6 Next, take into consideration that

7s t u d e n t s ’ p a r e n t s h a v e s i g n i f i c a n t l y l e s s i n c o m e

8t o c o n t r i b u t e t o l o a n r e p a y m e n t s . Students should

9n o t b e p e n a l i z e d f o r a t t e m p t i n g t o p r o v i d e a

10b e t t e r l i f e f o r t h e i r f a m i l i e s , a n d s h o u l d n o t

11h a v e t o c h o o s e b e t w e e n f o o d a n d o u t r a g e o u s l o a n

12p a y m e n t s .

13 Lastly, I urge the Department to lower the

14i n t e r e s t r a t e c a p . By lowering this cap, students

15c o u l d p o t e n t i a l l y s a v e t h o u s a n d s o f d o l l a r s e a c h

16y e a r .

17 In conclusion, on behalf of millions of

18s t u d e n t s a c r o s s t h e c o u n t r y , I a s k t h e D e p a r t m e n t

19o f E d u c a t i o n t o p r i o r i t i z e h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n , a n d

20a s k t h a t y o u h e l p o p e n t h e d o o r s o f h i g h e r

21e d u c a t i o n t o a l l s t u d e n t s .

22 Thank you.

23 DAN MADZELAN: Thank you.

24 [insert Grace Serino testimony]

1098

1099
1100
1101 221
1102

1 BILL PARSONS: I am Bill Parsons with the

2A m e r i c a n C o u n c i l o n E d u c a t i o n , a n d i t i s n i c e t o

3b e w i t h y o u a l l t o d a y . Two things I just wanted

4t o a s k , b y w a y o f c l a r i f i c a t i o n . Did I

5u n d e r s t a n d , t h i s m o r n i n g t h a t y o u a r e s a y i n g t h a t

6t h e o n e a r e a t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n w a s

7c o m m i t t e d t o a d d r e s s i n g i n t h i s u p c o m i n g

8n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g w a s r i g o r o u s h i g h s c h o o l

9c u r r i c u l u m ?

10 DAN MADZELAN: That is correct.

11 BILL PARSONS: And that is narrower than

12A C G a n d S M A R T G r a n t s , g e n e r a l l y ?

13 DAN MADZELAN: Yes. The basic high school

14e l i g i b i l i t y c o m p o n e n t , i f y o u w i l l , f o r A C

15G r a n t s – -

16 BILL PARSONS: Is the one area you are

17c o m m i t t e d t o a d d r e s s i n g .

18 DAN MADZELAN: Yes.

19 BILL PARSONS: And then, second, did I

20u n d e r s t a n d t h a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t h o p e s t o h a v e a n

21a n n o u n c e m e n t r e g a r d i n g a p o t e n t i a l f i x t o t h i s

22a c a d e m i c y e a r c o n u n d r u m , s h o r t l y ?

23 DAN MADZELAN: Yes.

24 BILL PARSONS: Great. Thank you.

1103

1104
1105
1106 222
1107

1 DAN MADZELAN: As I mentioned, this has

2b e e n a r e a l i n t e r n a l s t r u g g l e f o r u s , a c r o s s o u r

3o f f i c e s , a n d o w i n g , i n a l a r g e p a r t , f r a n k l y , t o

4t h e s t a t u t e , b u t s o m e o f o u r o t h e r

5i n t e r p r e t a t i o n s - - s o w e b e l i e v e t h a t w e h a v e w o r k e d

6t h o s e d i s a g r e e m e n t s o u t a t t h e s t a f f l e v e l - - t h e

7e v e n h i g h e r s t a f f l e v e l s . But again, the

8D e p a r t m e n t o f E d u c a t i o n ’ s o r d i n a r y c l e a r a n c e

9p r o c e s s f o r t h e s e k i n d s o f i n t e r p r e t a t i v e

10d o c u m e n t s - - i t i s n o t d o n e u n t i l S e c r e t a r y

11S p e l l i n g s s a y s i t i s d o n e .

12 BILL PARSONS: I understand. That is a

13h o p e f u l p r e d i c t i o n , t h o u g h .

14 Thank you.

15 DAN MADZELAN: Yes.

16 [Discussion off the record.]

17[ M s . A t e n i A s i h e l w a s t h e l a s t p r e s e n t e r . H o w e v e r

18d u e t o a r e c o r d i n g e r r o r , M s . A s i h e l ’ s t e s t i m o n y

19w a s n o t r e c o r d e d . ]

20 DAN MADZELAN: I think we will take this

21o p p o r t u n i t y t o t h a n k e v e r y o n e f o r c o m i n g t o d a y .

22 Jeff, would you care to–-

23 JEFF TAYLOR: Yes. I would just like to

24s a y , a l o t o f t h e p r e s e n t e r s h a v e a l r e a d y l e f t ,

1108

1109
1110
1111 223
1112

1b u t t h i s w a s m y f i r s t , I g u e s s , p u b l i c o p e n

2m e e t i n g f o r t h e D e p a r t m e n t , a n d I h a d b e e n v e r y

3i m p r e s s e d o v e r t h e c o u r s e o f t h e d a y o f t h e

4t h o u g h t f u l n e s s a n d t h o r o u g h n e s s o f t h e c o m m e n t s ,

5b o t h f r o m s t u d e n t s , a n d l e n d e r s , a n d s c h o o l

6a d m i n i s t r a t o r s , a n d o t h e r f o l k s t h a t a r e v e r y

7i n t e r e s t e d i n h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n .

8 As my colleagues will confirm, we will, of

9c o u r s e , h a v e a t r a n s c r i p t o f t h e p r o c e e d i n g s

10t o d a y , a n d w e w i l l t a k e t h a t b a c k a n d r e v i e w w h a t

11h a s b e e n r e c o m m e n d e d , a l o n g w i t h t h e o t h e r t h r e e

12p u b l i c m e e t i n g s t h a t w e w i l l h a v e a s w e c o n s i d e r

13w h a t t h e n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g s e s s i o n s w i l l l o o k

14l i k e .

15 CARNEY MCCULLOUGH: I just want to echo

16w h a t D a n a n d J e f f h a v e s a i d .

17 This has been my fourth or fifth

18e x p e r i e n c e w i t h n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g , a n d i t w a s

19r e a l l y e x c i t i n g t o s e e s u c h a l a r g e t u r n o u t o f s o

20m a n y p e o p l e f r o m a l l a r e a s o f h i g h e r e d u c a t i o n , a s

21w e m e n t i o n e d . This is sort of unprecedented in

22t h e h e a r i n g s t h a t w e h a v e h a d i n t h e p a s t . So

23t h a t i s r e a l l y n i c e t o s e e e v e r y b o d y v e r y e x c i t e d

24a b o u t t h e i s s u e s a n d , a s J e f f s a i d , w e a r e g o i n g

1113

1114
1115
1116 224
1117

1t o t a k e t h a t b a c k a n d l o o k a t t h e t r a n s c r i p t a n d

2t h e w r i t t e n m a t e r i a l s t h a t p e o p l e h a v e s u b m i t t e d .

3T h e r e w e r e w r i t t e n m a t e r i a l s t h a t w e r e c o m i n g i n .

4W e w i l l c a r e f u l l y c o n s i d e r t h e m a s w e m o v e f o r w a r d

5w i t h o u r n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g a c t i v i t i e s .

6 Thanks again.

7 DAN MADZELAN: And I have nothing more to

8a d d t o t h a t o t h e r t h a n t o t h a n k y o u a g a i n . If you

9c a n m a k e i t d o w n t o O r l a n d o , w h i c h i s w h e r e w e

10w i l l b e n e x t o n o u r r o a d s h o w - - w h a t i s t h a t ?

11A b o u t a m o n t h . We will see you then, if not, some

12o f t h o s e w i l l s e e y o u i n W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . , a t t h e

13n e g o t i a t e d r u l e m a k i n g , I a m s u r e .

14 Thanks again for your participation.

15 [Whereupon, the hearing concluded at 3:30

16p . m . ]

1118

1119
1120