JACKSON V AEGLive May 30th 2013 Trail Transcripts

PLEASE HELP US TO CONTINUE THIS EFFORT FOR MICHAE L!<<CLICK

Paul Gongaware (Co-CEO of AEG Live Concerts West, This Is It Producer) Plaintiffs Adverse Witness.

Continued direct examination by Brian Panish: Q. Good morning. A. Good morning. Q. Have a chance to meet with your attorneys again? A. Yesterday.

Q. Last night after court? A. Briefly, yes. Q. How about this morning? A. Yes, this morning. Q. Get your memory refreshed? A. We discussed a few things. Q. Was your memory refreshed? A. My memory is okay. Q. So you didn't learn anything new or refresh your memory about anything? A. No. Q. Did you look at any documents? A. No. Q. Okay. Sir, yesterday we were talking about Mr. Jackson's health. You remember that? A. Yes. Q. Was AEG concerned about Mr. Jackson's health? A. Well, when he was sick, we obviously had a concern. Q. So only that one day, then -- well, what day was he sick? A. I was out of town. I think it was that the 19th. Q. Who told you he was sick? A. Just from reading the emails.

Q. The emails where he was trembling, obsessing, couldn't cut his own food -- all of that? A. Yes. Q. Did you know he was wrapped in blankets on the 24th at the Staples Center and had chills on that day? A. I don't recall that. Q. You haven't seen the Staples videotapes of that? A. No. Q. Now, sir -- so other than the 19th, was AEG Or AEG Live concerned about Mr. Jackson's health? A. I don't know if I can speak for AEG I didn't have particular concerns. Q. Well, sir, you're one of the C.E.O.S of Concerts West, right? A. Yes. Q. As the CEO, were you concerned at any time, other than June 19th, about Mr. Jackson's health? A. No, not particularly. Q. Was anyone, to your knowledge, at AEG Live ever concerned about Mr. Jackson's health, other than June 19th when no one from AEG Live was present? A. I don't know. I couldn't say what other people were thinking. Q. No one told you that, right? A. No. Q. Is that correct? A. That's right. Q. Okay. Now, sir, we talked about Mr. Hougdahl -- is he from Wisconsin? A. Yes.

Q. And he was telling you about Mr. Jackson deteriorating in front of his eyes for eight weeks, right? A. Yes. Q. Before that he was telling you that you needed to fatten up Mr. Jackson, right? A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. Let's see if we can refresh your recollection. Exhibit 261, 1 through 3 Was that email sent to you, sir? A. The one from Hougdahl? Q. Yes, sir. A. Yes. Q. Okay. Let's take a Look at it. And this is the man that you said from AEG Live was present every day and in the best position to observe Mr. Jackson, right? A. Well, he was in a good position. Q. Well, who was in a Better position for AEG Live? A. He would have been the guy, yes. Q. So you admit that? A. Yes. Q. Well, if we go to the back of this, this is Mr. Payne writing to -- let's go to the first one here, 261-3, and Mr. Travis Payne. You know who he is, sir? A. Yes. He was the choreographer. Q. Okay. And Travis Payne and -- strike that. You know who Alif Sankey is? A. She was one of the assistant choreographers.

Q. Mr. -- the first email, Kenny Ortega was writing to you -- if we go to 261-2 there -- and he writes, "Paul" -- that's you, right? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Ortega was concerned about Mr. Jackson, someone being responsible for him getting proper nourishment, vitamins, therapy every day. You see that? A. Yes. Q. And he was telling you that he thought he should have a top nutritionist and physical therapy person. And then I showed you emails yesterday where it refreshed your recollection that you were involved in doing that, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, if we go back to the next page, this is sent to you. Now, what was Mr. Hougdahl -- Mr. Hougdahl, was he joking around about this situation? A. I think he was. Q. Well, let's see what he was joking about. Because this is the man who told you that he'd seen Mr. Jackson deteriorate in front of his eyes for eight weeks, right? A. That's what he wrote. Q. Did you take that seriously? A. Uhm, I didn't see it the way he saw it. Q. Okay. Because you weren't there seeing it the way he was seeing it, were you, sir? A. No. But I was still there. Q. You just told me that he was in the best position of anyone from AEG Live to observe Mr. Jackson, didn't you, sir? A. Yes, I think so.

Q. And you told us that you weren't there that much because you were busy doing other things, correct? A. I was always there, but I was busy doing other things. I didn't sit and watch every rehearsal. Q. And what did Mr. Hougdahl write about Mr. Jackson, the man who he thought was deteriorating in front of his eyes for eight weeks? Can you read it for us, sir? A. "He needs some cheeseburgers with a bunch of Wisconsin cheese head bowlers and a couple of brats and beers." Q. Did you think that was funny? A. I did. Q. So when Mr. Jackson was not doing well physically, your person that knew the most about him at the rehearsals said, "Oh, just get him some cheeseburgers and cheesehead bowlers." What's a cheesehead bowler? A. I have no idea. Q. "and a couple of brats and beers." You know what those are, right? A. Yes. Q. Had a few of those in your day? A. Maybe a few.

Mr. Putnam: Argumentative. Judge: Objection? Mr. Putnam: Argumentative and not relevant. Judge: Overruled.

Q. Okay. So here we are now 10 days before Mr. Jackson dies, and you and Mr. Hougdahl are joking about his physical condition, right? A. I think Bugzee is. Q. Did you write him back and say, "That's not a nice thing to joke about someone who is not doing well that we're relying on to make millions and millions of dollars"? Did you say that to him? A. I don't recall doing that. Q. Did you say, "Well, why are you telling us that he's deteriorating in front of your eyes, and all you want to do is give him a couple cheeseburgers and bowlers and brats and beers"?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Lack of foundation. This email is later. Judge: Okay. Sustained.

Q. So five days later he writes you and tells you he's deteriorating in front of his eyes. Did you say, "Hey, wait a minute. You said he only needed a couple cheeseburgers"? A. I don't recall saying that. Q. Did you say anything to him, sir? A. I don't recall saying anything to him. Q. Now, sir, yesterday you told us that you take this very seriously, correct? A. Yes. Q. Because your lawyer told you that you're being sued for billions of dollars, right? A. Yes. Q. Now, everything you did on this case was on behalf of AEG Live and AEG Productions, right?

A. On behalf of me as well, as I'm being personally sued. Q. But you were acting in your capacity in your course and scope as an employee of the company, correct? A. I was acting as an employee, yes. Q. And you didn't hire these lawyers, did you, sir? A. No. Q. The company hired them, right? A. Yes. Q. And the company pays for anything that is awarded against you in this case, don't they, sir? A. I don't know that. Q. They haven't told you that as an employee, you're covered by the company for anything you did? A. I assumed that, but I don't think I've discussed it with them. Q. Well, sir, you have a Written contract with the company, don't you, sir? A. Yes. Q. And in your written contract, you're indemnified, the company agrees to pay for anything that happens to you while you're working for the company, isn't that true?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Lacks foundation. Also calls for a Legal conclusion. Judge: Overruled.

A. I haven't read my contract in 12 or 13 years. I don't know if it says that. If it does -Q. Okay. So you haven't signed a Contract in 12 or 13 years for the company? A. Signed extensions.

Q. Okay. Well, sir -- so you weren't worried enough to go back and read your contract to see whether or not the company would cover you for this case? A. I didn't go back and read it. Q. Did you ask anyone at the company if you're covered? A. I don't recall. Q. But you assumed the company's covering you for this, right, sir? A. I've been assuming that. Q. So you have nothing to worry about because the company is covering you, right? A. I think it depends on how big the judgment is and whether the company could cover it. If it couldn't, they would come to me. Q. Oh, really? So how much can the company covers? A. I have no idea. Q. So why did you say that they can't cover something?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony. Judge: Sustained.

Q. Well, sir, you understand the company has other ways to cover this judgment, don't you, sir? A. I don't know about that. Q. Really? Well, what were you trying to get to cover you for the Michael Jackson losses, if you had any?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Vague.

Judge: Sustained. Vague.

Q. Did you take any steps, sir, to secure anything that would protect the company if something happened during the concert tour? A. We had some cancelation insurance. Q. Insurance. And do you know whether you're covered by the company by any insurance in this case?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. That's not admissible. Judge: Yes. Sustained. Mr. Panish: Well, your honor, I'd like to go to sidebar on this. He brought up yesterday a nonresponsive -Judge: Okay. Let's go to sidebar.

(Sidebar)

(back to open court)

Judge: Okay. Mr. Panish: Thank you.

Q. Mr. Gongaware, we were talking about your employment agreement, okay?

A. Yes. Q. Remember those questions? How many pages is it? A. I don't know. Q. Did you have a lawyer assist you in preparing your employment agreement with AEG? A. The first one. Q. Okay. And who was that?

Judge: Are you asking who the lawyer was? Mr. Panish: Yes. I'm sorry.

A. Can't recall his name right now. Q. So you had a lawyer, and you and AEG negotiated a contract which you signed, right? A. Yes. Q. And your lawyer, I assume, was looking out for your best interests? A. Sure. I believe so. Q. Okay. And you've had other employment agreements before that one? A. I think that was the first one. Q. First time in your whole life you ever had a written employment agreement? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And in that employment agreement, did you get protection that you'd be indemnified for anything you did on behalf of AEG? A. I'm assuming I did. Q. You're assuming you did, because that, in your experience, is standard in employment agreements, if

you're working for the company, and something happens, the company pays, right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation. Judge: Sustained.

Q. Your understanding -- you told me yesterday you've done all kinds of agreements with people, right? A. I've been involved in them, sure. Q. And you've read them? I assume you read them once in a while, right? A. Once in a while. Q. Okay. You read them and see what the provisions are? And you know what an indemnity provision is, sir? A. Yes. Q. What is an indemnity provision? A. Means someone else is taking on that responsibility. Q. So like if you did something wrong -A. My company would take on that responsibility. Q. Exactly. And you wouldn't be -- let's say you were driving on behalf of the company to the concert, and you got in an automobile accident when you were driving for the company. Then the company would cover you, right? A. I think my car insurance would cover me. Q. Bad example. Well, if you're working for the company, Okay, and you do something -- take away the car the company's responsible, they're going to pay for your share, right? A. I believe so, yeah.

Q. And that's your understanding of what your agreement with the company says, correct? A. Yes. Q. And they've never told you in this case they're not covering you based on your agreement, right? A. No. No one's said that. Q. Okay. And no one has told you there's any conflict of interest that you and the company have in this case, right? A. No. Q. You've never signed and said there's any conflict of interest in this case, right? A. No. Q. Now, sir, let's take a look at exhibit I can't remember the number, but I know we've all seen it.

Mr. Panish: you know what it is? I think it's -Mr. Boyle: 638-108 to 638-109.

Q. All right. And there's just a couple questions I want to ask you. The one you spent at least an hour or two with your lawyers reviewing. You remember this document, sir? A. Yes. Q. And I want to focus. Did you go back and review this again last night? A. No. Q. Okay. And -- so, it's not -- I'm sorry. That's not the right one. It's 307. It's the last one I was showing you yesterday. I just can't remember what it was.

Mr. Boyle: 307-1.

Mr. Panish: 307-1. Thank you. Mr. Boyle: through 3. Through 4. Mr. Panish: sorry. So what happened to the documents he was looking at yesterday? All right.

Q. I'm going to be brief on this. This is the one that was sent to your private email. We went through all that yesterday, right? That you rarely use, you told us, right? Kazoodi? Remember that? Kazoodi. We don't need to get back into that. So let's go back. Let's look at one of the emails that Mr. Leiweke and you -- were forwarded to your private email from Mr. Phillips. We go down. We can see the email Mr. Phillips sent to Mr. Ortega. Remember we were talking about this yesterday, right? A. Do you have a copy of this I can see? Q. Here, I'll give you what Mr. Boyle wrote on. Just ignore his writing. Okay. Sir, you with me on that? Remember we discussed it yesterday? I'm focusing on the email Mr. Phillips forwarded to you where he talked about his concern about this guy. Remember that? We -- I don't want to get into the discussion. A. Yes. Q. So you told us yesterday that you thought all doctors are ethical, right? A. I think so. I believe so. Q. But you know that they're not, right? Not all doctors are ethical, right? A. Well, there's an occasional bad one, but I don't look at it that way. Q. Okay. Well, Mr. Phillips told you and Mr. Leiweke: "This doctor is extremely successful. We check everyone out" -- and we talked about that. I don't want to get back into that. But then he goes on to say: "and does not need this gig, so he" -- and I think he meant to say "is" "totally unbiased and ethical." would you read that to mean, since he doesn't need this, he's totally unbiased and ethical? That's what he's saying to you and Mr. Ortega, right? A. That's what he's writing.

Q. Okay. So in other words, he's suggesting that if somebody doesn't need this gig, that would certainly indicate that they're unbiased and ethical, right? A. That's what he says here. Q. Okay. So what's the reverse? If they really need the gig, what would the reverse be?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Calls for speculation. Judge: Overruled.

A. I don't think just because someone needs the gig means they're not going to be ethical. So I don't understand what the reverse would be, what you're referring to. Q. Well the reverse would be, so if you don't need this gig, so you're unbiased and ethical, wouldn't the reverse be, he really needs the gig, so he's biased and unethical? A. I wouldn't take that from it. Q. Well, he says he doesn't need the gig, so then you assume he's unbiased and ethical, right? Isn't that what you said? A. That's what Mr. Phillips is saying. Q. So the reverse of that, if you really need the gig, you could be biased and unethical. Doesn't that follow, sir? A. Doesn't follow with me. Q. Okay. Is Mr. Phillips unbiased and ethical, sir? A. I think he is. Q. And when he made those statements to Mr. Ortega, that we know were not true, do you think that was being ethical?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation. Judge: Overruled.

A. Which statement are you referring to, sir? Q. "doctor's extremely successful. We check everyone out." let's start with that. A. Yes. Q. You think that's ethical to make that statement without knowing that to be true? A. I don't know what he knew at the time. Q. Okay. Want you to assume that no one knew that, and no one checked him out like they said. That would be unethical to make that statement to a Man who's concerned about someone's physical condition, who died five days later, wouldn't it, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Improper hypothetical. Judge: Overruled.

A. You're asking me a hypothetical question? Q. Yes, sir. A. Could you try that again, please? Q. Sure. Mr. Phillips is affirmatively representing to Mr. Ortega in response to many concerns Mr. Ortega had about Mr. Jackson's health, correct? A. Yes. Q. That's an affirmative statement, right? A. Yeah.

Q. "The doctor's extremely successful. We check everyone out." You got that, right? That's an affirmative representation by Mr. Phillips to Mr. Ortega who is concerned about trouble with Mr. Jackson, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And would it be unethical to make an affirmative statement that you know is not true to someone that's concerned about an individual's health? A. Yeah, I suppose it would be. Q. And it certainly would be biased to do that, wouldn't it, sir? A. I don't understand what the bias would be. Q. You don't know what bias means? A. I know what it means, but I don't understand the bias here in this context. Q. The bias that he didn't want Mr. Ortega to complain so the show could go on, because he was concerned about Mr. Ortega potentially derailing the show. A. I don't take that from this. Q. Mr. Phillips' No. 1 priority is AEG Live, isn't it, sir? A. You'd have to ask him what his No. 1 priority is. Q. Well, your No. 1 priority is AEG Live, isn't it, sir? A. It's one of them. Q. Well, you told us yesterday your No. 1 priority is the show must go on, right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony. Judge: Sustained.

Q. Did you tell us yesterday that your priority is the show must go on? A. That's my job, to make sure that happens. Q. Exactly. That's your No. 1 priority at the company, that the show must go on, right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Same Objection. Judge: Sustained.

Q. Okay. What's your no. 1 priority? Is it that the show must go on, sir? A. I don't know if that's my No. 1 priority. Q. Okay. What's your No. 1 priority?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Vague, your honor. Judge: Overruled.

A. Relating to these shows? Q. No. To your job for AEG Live. A. That I do it well. Q. Okay. And with your job, doing well means the show must go on, right? A. That's part of it. Q. What's more important than the show must go on, sir? A. Getting it right. Q. Getting it right. Okay. Now, sir, let's look at exhibit 302-1 and 2, which is next in line (shows document). When you're ready, let me know.

A. Okay. (reading document) Got it. Q. You got it? Okay. Seen that before, sir? A. You showed me parts of it yesterday. I don't know that I've seen this top, maybe. Q. Okay. Well, let's -- it's sent to you, wasn't it, sir? Did you not read that, also? A. Got it. Q. Okay.

Mr. Panish: Let's put it up, please.

Q. Now, Mr. Branca was an attorney for Mr. Jackson, correct? A. Yes. Q. And Mr. Dileo, was he ever Michael Jackson's manager? Did you ever see a Written agreement between him and Mr. Jackson? A. Never saw a Written agreement, but I did understand that he was managing. Q. When? A. When he came on board. Q. When was that? A. Think it started somewhere in the middle of April. Q. So you remember that specifically? A. No. Generally. Q. Okay. And then it says -- Mr. Branca is telling you and everyone: "I have the right therapist/spiritual advisor/substance abuse counselor who could help." Did I read that right, sir?

A. Yes. Q. "And he recently helped mike tyson get sober and paroled. Do you know whether there's a Substance issue involved? Perhaps better discussed on the phone." Did I read that right? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Branca was asking you, is there substance abuse involved, right? A. Yes. Q. He's writing directly to you, among others, isn't he, sir? A. Among others, yes. Q. Well, you're not cc'd. It's e-mailed directly to you and Mr. Leiweke, Mr. Phillips, Mr. Katz, Dileo and Kane, right? A. Right. Q. And what did you do to find out if there was a substance-abuse issue involved, sir? A. I think this was at -- this was referring to the meeting that was going to take place that day. And I was waiting to see what the result of the meeting was going to be. Q. Does Mr. Branca mention any meeting there, sir? A. No. But this is the day the meeting took place. Q. No, but, sir, does Mr. Branca mention any meeting there? A. No. Q. In fact, the meeting email that we showed yesterday was just sent to you and Mr. Leiweke at your private emails, right? A. That's the one I saw yesterday. Q. They didn't send that to Mr. Branca, did they? Mr. Phillips, he didn't send that email to Mr. Branca, did he, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation. Judge: If he knows. Overruled.

A. You know, I don't know. Q. Well, you've never seen that email being sent to Mr. Branca or Mr. Dileo or Mr. Kane, have you, sir? A. I didn't see it. Q. Now -- so my question is, did you do anything affirmatively to find out about a substance issue? "yes" or "no"? A. No. I didn't believe there was any substance issue. Q. Well, you'd seen Mr. Jackson where you already thought before he was under the influence of a substance, didn't you, sir? A. In the entire time that I was dealing with him on this tour, I saw it once, and that was when he had just come back from the doctor. Q. Okay. You were at his house once that you recall with Mr. Jackson in June, right? A. Yes. Q. And the one time that you were there at his house, you saw him come in and be under the influence, as far as you could tell, of a substance, right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony, your honor. Judge: Overruled.

A. Well, I was there more than one time, but there was one time that I did see that, yes. I saw Michael was a bit slow, yes.

Q. Well, you said he had slurred speech, and you said as far as you could tell, he was under the influence of some substance. Didn't you testify to that? A. I think he was. Q. Okay. A. But he had just come back from his doctor. Q. Right. And did you know the doctor gave him some substances? A. I don't know what the doctor did. Q. Did you know the doctor? A. No, sir. Q. Did you check it out? A. Check what out? Q. The doctor. A. No. It was Michael's doctor. It wasn't my business. Q. Who was it? A. It was Dr. Klein. Q. I thought Dr. Murray was his doctor. A. Yes, he was. Q. Okay. Now, sir, how many times were you at Mr. Jackson's house in June? Do you now remember that?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony. Judge: I'm sorry. What was your question? Mr. Panish: Do you now remember how many times you were at Mr. Jackson's house in June? Judge: Overruled.

A. I don't remember how many times. Q. Well, we had some discussion, I thought, and you told me you could only remember one time that you were there, is that right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Misstates prior testimony. Judge: No. I think he said he believes he might have been there more than once, but he recalls specifically one. Mr. Panish: Right. Exactly. Judge: I think that's a fair question. Overruled.

A. I remember being there, but I just -- you asked me specifically when I was there. I don't recall specifically, but I was there at meetings in June. Q. Oh, you were. So tell us about how many meetings you were there then? A. I don't remember how many. Q. Okay. Tell us how many Mr. Jackson was there at? A. Every meeting I was at in June, Mr. Jackson was there. Q. Was it more than five? A. Might have been. Q. More than ten? A. Probably not. Q. So somewhere between five and ten meetings you were at Mr. Jackson's house in June now, is that right? A. Somewhere in there. Q. Okay. Tell us who was at the other four meetings that we haven't discussed that you now recall?

A. I don't remember specifically the meetings, but every meeting I was at at the house, Michael was there, most of them, Frank Dileo was there, Kenny was at most of them, Randy was at most of them. That's what I remember. Q. So Randy Phillips was at five to ten meetings with you in June at Mr. Jackson's house, correct? A. Somewhere around there, yeah. Q. Okay. And Mr. Ortega was at five to ten meetings with you at Mr. Jackson's house, right? A. Somewhere around there, yeah. Q. And so then you were pretty much going to a Meeting every day or two at Mr. Jackson's house, then? A. No. Q. Well, he died on June 25th, and we know you weren't there on the 23rd and the 22nd and 24th, so you were at five to ten meetings between June 1st and June 20th. But we also know you were out of town for four days in June, right? A. I was out of town the 19th through the 21st. Q. Okay. So now were you there the day before you left to go back east to the wedding? A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. So we know now you were at five to ten meetings from June 1st to June 18th, right? A. Sounds right. Q. So that would be almost every other day you were at a meeting at Mr. Jackson's house, wasn't it, sir? A. According to your calculation. Q. Well, I'm just using what you've told us. Were you there when you were in Pennsylvania? A. If you're using five, it would be one every four days. Q. Well, no, no. The 18th --

A. All right. About every 3.5 days. Q. Okay. Forgot you're a CPA, right? Okay. So you were at a meeting every 3 days at Mr. Jackson's home, but you can't remember any of them except for one specifically, right? A. Well, there were two -- I mean, there was the one with Dr. Murray, and there was the one where he came in under the -- you know, he was a bit slow. Q. "Under the influence" you were going to say, right? A. Might have, yeah. Q. So then now you remember that that meeting with Dr. Murray was in June at Michael Jackson's house, is that right? A. Yeah, I believe.

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony, your honor. Judge: Overruled.

A. I believe it was in June. Q. Okay. Because yesterday you said you didn't remember whether it was April, May or June. Remember that? A. The meeting with Dr. Murray -Judge: Wait. Mr. Putnam: Same Objection, your honor. Judge: Sustained.

Q. All right. So we're confirmed now, you had a meeting in June with Dr. Murray at Michael Jackson's house. No question, right? A. Yes. Q. And that was in early June, right?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Asked and answered. Mr. Gongaware: Sometime in June we talked about it. It was sometime in June. Judge: Sir, if there's an objection -Mr. Gongaware: I'm sorry. I can't hear him. Judge: -- don't answer so I can make a ruling. Mr. Gongaware: I can't hear him. Mr. Putnam: I'm sorry. I'll speak louder. Judge: We have a fan going, so maybe that's it. All right.

Q. Okay. So let's look at did you call Mr. Branca to discuss this substance issue? A. No. Q. Did you call anyone to discuss the substance issue? A. I don't believe I did. Q. Now, you told us on the 24th you watched the "Thriller," right, and you thought Mr. Jackson did fine then, right? A. Yes. Q. "He was engaged," was your language. A. He was. Q. Fully focused, right?

A. Yeah, I believe he was. Q. Was he engaged on the 25th? A. I didn't see him on the 25th. Q. Now, sir -- strike that. You were involved in the insurance issues, getting insurance, weren't you, sir? A. No, I wasn't involved in getting it. Q. You weren't involved at all in the process, is that right? A. Just peripherally, but I wasn't involved in the process. Q. So peripherally would mean very rarely you would be involved, right? Peripherally? A. I wasn't involved much. Q. You weren't writing emails back and forth to the insurance people, were you? A. Might have been one or two. Q. One or two. That's it, right? A. From what I recall. Q. Well, let's look at the one you wrote on June 25th, the day that Michael Jackson died. That's exhibit 364. So were you involved in insurance issues up to the day Mr. Jackson died, sir? A. Only peripherally. Q. Okay. Well, let's start with this one. Who is Bob Taylor? A. He was our insurance agent. Q. Someone that you'd dealt with over the years, correct? A. Yes. Q. Right? You're familiar with him, right? A. Yes. Q. He's actually an insurance broker, isn't he, sir?

A. Yes. Q. And when you deal with Lloyds of London, that's who you deal with for entertainment-type concert insurance, right? A. We usually deal through him, yes. Q. And he, Mr. Taylor, is the conduit between you and Lloyds of London, right? A. Yes. Q. You don't directly deal with any of the underwriters, do you? A. Oh, no. Q. Okay. So let's look at this email now (shows document). Now, this is your peripheral involvement on the 25th. Did you write this email, sir? A. Yes, I believe I did. Q. Okay. So here Mr. Taylor is writing you on June 25th. Now, this may be London time, Okay? So if we subtract eight hours -- eight hours' difference, is that your understanding, sir? A. Yes. Q. So if we subtract eight hours, that makes it 9:31 in the morning, right? A. I got it -- it would be 9:07. Q. Fair enough. How do you get 9:07 out of that? A. Well, he was at 5:07. If you subtract eight hours. Q. Okay. I'll accept that. So you write to Mr. Taylor and say: "In the interest of full disclosure." What does that mean, "In the interest of full disclosure"? A. I was giving him my opinion. Q. Well, do you usually give partial disclosure or full disclosure?

A. Usually, full disclosure. Q. Why do you have to tell him "in the interest of full disclosure"? A. I don't know why I said that. Q. Why did you say, "but just between us"? Did you not want him to tell that to anyone? A. Well, I think I said "just between us" because this was just my opinion. Q. Okay. Wait a Minute. You're saying, "in the interest of full disclosure," that would mean full, everyone would know, right? A. That he would know how I felt. Q. Well, you didn't say "just between" you didn't say, "in the interest of partial disclosure between you and I," did you? A. No, I didn't say that. Q. You said, "in the interest of full disclosure, but just between us." that means you and Mr. Taylor, right? A. Yes. Q. You didn't want him to tell this to the insurance company, did you? A. I don't think it was a question of that. I don't have a Say in insurance. That decision is made by other people. But I think what I have a say in is keeping costs in line. And I think what I'm saying here is that if we don't have sickness coverage, I don't want to spend the money because I don't think it's worth it. Q. Okay. So you're making the decision right here: "if we don't get sickness coverage, we're dropping the policy." That's what you said, didn't you, sir? A. That's my opinion. It wasn't my decision. I think bob knew it wasn't my decision. Q. Did you say, "in my opinion," sir? A. Didn't say that on here.

Q. Whose decision was it? A. Wasn't mine. It would be a corporate decision. Q. Whose decision was it? A. I think Shawn Trell would be involved in that. Q. Did you send this email to Shawn Trell? A. No. Q. You knew you needed sickness coverage, didn't you, sir? A. I knew that if we -- I didn't want to pay for coverage that didn't include sickness because it just, to me, wouldn't have been worth it, and I was trying to control costs. Q. Sir, you wanted sickness coverage, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. And you knew -- and you had been told repeatedly that Michael Jackson was not healthy, hadn't you, sir? A. No, I don't think that's the case. Q. So you don't count bugzee saying, eight weeks, him deteriorating in front of his own eyes, as being Michael Jackson not healthy? A. My observation of Michael Jackson was that he was healthy. Q. Sir, you were told by the people that saw Mr. Jackson the most and that were in the best position to see him that he was not healthy, weren't you, sir? A. Yes. And then we had a Meeting, they had a Meeting to discuss that. And he took a couple days off, and he came back strong. Q. Miraculous recovery is, I think, you called it, right? A. I don't think I called it that.

Q. So in other words, he's deteriorating, he's declining, he's needing cheeseburgers and brats, his heart is pumping out of his chest. And in two days he was all better, right? A. Those two days of rehearsals, he was good. Q. He was all better, and everything was fine. But you're still trying to get sickness coverage on the day he died, weren't you, sir? A. That was for the 50 shows. Q. Is that a "yes"? A. I wanted -- if we were going to have cancelation insurance, I wanted to have sickness insurance for those 50 shows. Q. And Mr. Taylor told you: "Understood. It was always down to the medical issues from the word go." did I read that right, sir? A. Yes. Q. So you and Mr. Taylor knew that it was always down to Michael Jackson's medical issues from the word go, isn't that true, sir? A. No, sir. I don't think that's what he was referring to. The issue would have been if we were going to get sickness coverage, Michael would have had to do another physical, and Michael didn't want to do another physical. Q. And you remember all of this going on, this email, right? A. I remember what was going on at the time. Q. And you remember, and you have a good memory of all this, right? A. I remember it. Q. Remember it well. You were just telling us all about what was happening, and what he meant, right? A. I remember it.

Q. Okay. Well, let's see what you said in your deposition under oath, sir, at page 267, line 23, to 272, line 14, when you were asked about this. And while counsel looks at that, is this a Subject that you got your memory refreshed by the lawyers, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. That misstates the law. The question is whether he was refreshed by any documents. Judge: Overruled.

A. Oh, sorry. Question again, sir? Q. Is this a subject matter that you got your memory refreshed by your lawyers over here? A. No. Q. Okay.

Mr. Panish: so can I play that now? Mr. Putnam: No. I've been trying to object at the same time as trying to look at this. Just a second. Mr. Panish: Object all you want. That's okay. Mr. Putnam: I've been trying. Mr. Panish: I appreciate that. Mr. Putnam: All right. Mr. Panish: Okay. Let's go.

(Mr. Panish plays video clip of Gongawares deposition):

Q. A.

"Sir, do you know who Bob Taylor is? "Yes.

Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.

"Who is Bob Taylor? "He's an insurance broker. "And for who, if you know? "His company was Robertson Taylor. "And they're based in England, or he's based in England? "I believe he is. "Okay. I hand you exhibit 23. "we're done with 22?"

Mr. Panish: Just stop. For the record, exhibit 22 is the same exhibit we're looking at now. 23. I'm sorry. (continues playing Gongawares deposition video clip):

Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.

"Sir, do you know who Bob Taylor is? "Yes. "Who is Bob Taylor? He's an insurance broker. "And for who, if you know? "His company was Robertson Taylor. "And they're based in England, or he's based in England? "I believe he is. Okay. I hand you exhibit 23. "We're done with 22? Okay.

"Mr. Putnam: this is 23? Yes.

"Mr. Boyle: this is 23. Aegl59111. "Okay. "Okay. And the first email On this page, the first in time, Says, 'from Paul Gongaware, sent: 25 June 2009 at 17:31 to Bob Taylor, Timm Woolley, subject: MJ policy.' Q. A. "You see that one? "Yes.

Q. "And I'm going to read it: "'in the interest of full Disclosure, but just between us, if we don't get sickness coverage, we are dropping this policy. Paul G.'" "Did I read that correctly? A. Q. A. "Yes. "What did you mean by that? "I don't know. I don't remember this email.

Q. "So do you know anything significant about the date June 25th, 2009? "Was that the day he died? A. "Yes, sir, it was. Q. "Do you know why on the day Michael Jackson died you would have been e-mailing an insured's broker about trying to get sickness coverage? A. "No.

Q. "And then I see above, Mr. Taylor responds to Paul Gongaware and Timm Woolley on June 25th, 2009, 5:07 p.M. And 27 seconds. I'll read it. Mr. Taylor says: "'Understood. It was always down to the medical issues from the word go. Once we know what happens on the 6th, we can make a decision. Best, Bob.' "Did I read that correctly? A. Q. A. "Yes. "Do you know what Mr. Taylor was talking about there? "No.

Q. "When Mr. Taylor says, 'it was always down to the medical issues from the word go,' do you know what he meant? A. Q. "No. "Do you know what was supposed to be happening on the 6th that would lead them to make a

decision about the insurance policy? A. "I think the 6th we were supposed to be in London. Q. A. "Was there supposed to be a medical exam of Michael? "I believe there -- I believe when he got to London, there would be another exam.

Q. "Now, do you know if when you sent the email at 17:31, which is 5:31 p.M., do you know if when you sent that email on June 25th to Mr. Taylor and Mr. Woolley, do you know if you had already heard about Michael's passing? A. "If I would have heard of Michael's passing -- this doesn't make sense, the dates and the times and everything, because if I would have heard of Michael's passing, I wouldn't have been dealing with this. Q. "Separate and apart from the dates and times, when you -- what -- why did you want to get sickness coverage so much so that you would drop the policy without it? A. "I don't recall specifically about this, but speaking generally, if you don't get sickness, the policy probably isn't worth having. Q. A. Q. A. "And you have experience with sickness coverage in policies for other artists, I assume? "Yes. "You know what it means, right? "Yes.

Q. "And was there some particular concern in the Michael Jackson case about why you wanted sickness coverage? A. Q. "Not that I recall. "It had nothing to do with the fact that he wasn't doing so well around this time?

A. "No. I think that's just what we tried to do, is get that kind of Coverage. If we're going to have insurance, that's the main -- that's The main risk, you know, if somebody gets sick and misses a Show. Q. A. Q. A. Q. "And is it your understanding that sickness coverage was never Procured in this case? "I don't know what the final was on the insurance. "Do you know if there was a Cancelation insurance policy in Place? "I know there was an insurance policy in place, but I don't know the details. "Do you know if it was a $17.5 million cancelation policy?

A. Q. A.

"I have no idea what the numbers were. "You never heard anything about that? "No. I didn't pay much attention to that."

Mr. Panish: Okay. Now, sir, what was it that refreshed your recollection about what Mr. Taylor said after you took your deposition and signed it -- and you never changed that, did you, sir? A. No. Q. Okay. So tell us all how your memory got refreshed, after you did the deposition, after you read it, after you didn't change it. What was it, sir, that refreshed your memory about all of these discussions with Mr. Taylor that you didn't recall? A. I think it was the physical in London, that there needed to be a second physical in order to get sickness and that Michael didn't want to do it. Q. But you knew all that at your deposition didn't you, sir? A. I -- at the time I didn't recall any of that. Q. You said in your deposition you knew there was going to be a physical in London, didn't you, sir? A. I believe there was. Q. And then you reread your deposition, then you didn't change it, and then now today you remember, right? A. Yeah. I had a chance to think about it. Q. So when were you thinking about it when it came back to you? A. I've been thinking about this all along. Q. Months? So since when did you start thinking about it? When did you start thinking about it, sir? A. After my deposition.

Q. Okay. Well, but you told us that you read your deposition, and you didn't change that. Were you thinking about it then? A. Hadn't come to me at that point. Q. Okay. When was it that it came to you? Was it after you met with your lawyers? A. When I started reviewing all this stuff in context. Q. Well, it was just some deposition exhibits is all you reviewed, is that right, sir? A. I had a Chance to think about all of them. Q. And you had a chance to think about it when you met with your lawyers, and they refreshed your recollection, isn't that true?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Argumentative, and misstates the prior testimony. Judge: Overruled. Is that what happened? Mr. Gongaware: Specifically, I don't know. But generally speaking, I went through all this stuff and really had a chance to sit down and think about it and remember it.

Q. When did it come -A. Remembered at least what was on my mind at the time. Q. When did it pop back into your mind? A. I don't remember. Q. Was it before you met with your lawyers? A. I don't remember when it was. Q. All right, sir. Now, let's talk a Little bit more about your peripheral involvement with the insurance. Find my exhibits here. Now, sir, you started to get involved in the insurance all the way back in February of 2009, didn't you, sir? A. That's when these issues were starting to come forward, yes.

Q. And then that's when your peripheral involvement began, right? A. I believe so. Q. Okay. I want to show you exhibit 74-1 about your peripheral involvement (shows document). And when you look at that, sir, can you tell me -- you were peripherally involved for a long time, weren't you, about the insurance? A. Yes. Q. So peripheral to you means -- could be a Long time you were peripherally involved, right? A. Insurance wasn't my domain. I didn't make decisions on insurance. Q. Well, first you said you were just peripherally involved. You want to change that now? A. No. Q. Okay. Well, this is you communicating directly with Mr. Taylor, right? A. Right. Q. And this is when Mr. Taylor and you were discussing, what can you do about getting insurance coverage, right? A. Yes. Q. And there's a long email, and it says let's start at the beginning. A. Can I have a Minute just to read it? Q. Absolutely. A. Thank you. Q. And I'm going to start at the very back, so if you wanted to start there -A. Okay. Q. Okay. Now, do you have an email address at AEG Live? A. Yes. Q. Do you have an email address at Concerts West?

A. Yes. Q. And do you have an email address at kazoodi? A. Not anymore. Q. When did you cancel that one? A. I don't recall. Q. After Michael Jackson's death? A. I don't think so. I think it was before that. Q. Well, you received an email on June 20th at that address, didn't you, sir? A. I don't know. I don't recall receiving that email. Q. Didn't we talk about that yesterday, sir? A. Yes. Q. So how could you have canceled that email address -- well, strike that. Do you have proof when you canceled that email address? A. I don't remember when it was, but it was I don't remember. Q. Well, sir, you know that I can go on the internet and look that up, right? A. Yes. Q. And I went on the internet, and I looked up kazoodi.Com. Did you know that?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Lacks foundation. Kazoodi.Com, was that the email address? Judge: Well, it's not an appropriate objection, but I'm going to sustain the objection. Mr. Panish: Okay. Judge: What counsel does is not evidence, so --

Q. Okay. Well, you still own that domain, kazoodi, sir?

A. I think I do. Q. Do you have any documents saying when you canceled that email address? A. My accountant might. Q. But you don't know as you sit here today? A. No, I don't know. Q. Okay. So we know that you had at least three email addresses. Did you have any other ones? A. I mean, over the years I've had different email addresses. Q. Fair question. During the time that you were working with Michael Jackson in 2009. A. The main one was paul@concertswest. There may have been a couple other ones, but I don't think I was using them. Q. Sir, you were using a Mac email address then, weren't you? A. Yeah. Q. So you were using an AEG Live email address, mac email address, Concerts West email address, kazoodi email address in 2009, correct?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation. Judge: Overruled. Gongaware: I don't think I was using kazoodi then.

Q. So you're saying that Mr. Phillips never sent you that email? A. I'm saying I don't remember receiving it. Q. All right. This email, do you remember receiving this one, sir? A. I remember this email.

Q. You remember it? All right. Great. And this is -- who is dealing with the insurance at this time, sir? A. Timm Woolley was for sure. I believe AEG Corporate. Might have been Shawn Trell. Q. Who did you cc on this email, sir? A. On the one that I sent? Just sent it to Bob. Q. Yeah. You were the only one involved in this email chain, isn't that right, sir? A. In this chain? Yes. Q. You weren't sending this to Mr. Trell or Mr. Woolley, were you, sir? A. No. Q. Okay. Where is the email that precedes this? A. Email that precedes this? Q. Yeah. Because you're saying: "Bob, let me know if you need anything else." this was pertaining to insurance, wasn't it, sir? A. What he needed, yes. Q. Okay. And where was -- was there a Prior email that told you what he needed? A. You would have it. Q. Well, I would? How would I have it? A. You have all of my emails. Q. Oh, I do. So you produced an email before this, sir, to your lawyers? Is that what you're saying? A. I produced all my emails to my lawyers. Q. Did you delete any emails, sir? A. No. Q. So you never deleted any emails? A. No. Q. Ever?

A. Well, ever? Q. In 2009 to the time you produced emails, whenever -- you never deleted a single email? Is that what you're telling us? A. I don't recall ever deleting emails. Q. So as far as you recall, you never deleted a Single email from 2009 until you produced these documents in 2012? A. No. Q. Is that right? A. Right. Q. Saved them all? A. Yes. Q. Okay. So you're asking bob what else he needs for insurance, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Let's go to the next page. And then Bob writes back, and he gives you a laundry list of things, right? A. Yes. Q. And I went through that with Mr. Trell, but I want to go to the top email. And you write back, and you say -- what did you write back to Mr. Taylor, sir? A. "Anyplace I can call you re this? I'm not ready to put anything in writing." Q. You didn't want to put anything in writing? Is that because you knew you never delete emails? A. No, sir. What I was referring to is, his email had all these questions, and none of these questions have been resolved. We didn't -- you know, he was talking about the length of the show, and back-toback shows, and, you know, we hadn't gotten a Schedule yet. "PR support." none of those things were

happening. And it was a long email, and I didn't want to sit there and write answers to these, because there were no answers to them. I was just going to tell him on the phone. It was too much work to answer these because there were no answers at the time. Q. So you couldn't just say -- write back and say, "bob, I really don't have answers to these questions"? A. I chose to do it this way. Q. Okay. Because you weren't ready to put anything in writing, correct? A. I wasn't ready to answer any of these questions because there were no answers to these questions. Q. You didn't say that, did you, sir? A. I just did. Q. Well, sir, was one of the questions about a Medical update of Mr. Jackson? A. Yes. Q. And you didn't want to put that in writing, did you, sir? A. Well, he was asking a question I had no answer for. Q. Well, but you said -- you didn't say, "I don't have answers." You said, "I'm not ready to put anything in writing!" didn't you? A. Yes. Q. Let's go to the next one. You only wrote one or two, right? A. Wasn't a Lot. Q. Okay. Well let's go to 731-1 and 2 (shows document). A. Ok Q. When you're ready, let me know. A. Okay. Q. Okay. We'll put that up. There was concern that some of the reinsurers, they were backing out of this

insurance, correct? A. The only one that I know, I was only on part of this chain. Q. Okay. Well, on the part that you were on, did you learn that reinsurers were cutting off of the potential insurance? A. I think what this refers to is there were articles in a paper in the UK, and that was causing the insurance people to question the insurance. Q. To be warned off, right, sir? A. I don't know if that's the right term. But, yeah, I mean, they were skittish. Q. And this was in April 2009, right? A. Yes. Q. And there's an article link right there about it, right? A. That would be the Daily Mail. Q. That's a newspaper in London? A. That's a newspaper, yeah. Q. And they were writing an article about growing concerns about Michael Jackson's mental state, et cetera, correct? A. Well, that's one of the tabloids over there, yes. Q. But there was an article over there about it, right? A. But articles in the Daily Mail really aren't worth reading. Q. So you never read that link, then, right? A. I don't think so. Q. Wasn't worth your time to do that? A. Daily Mail is just a rag.

Q. Well, sir, isn't true that up to the day before Michael Jackson died, Mr. Trell was trying to get life insurance on Mr. Jackson? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. Well, let's show you here, sir, exhibit 729-1 through 4. You never knew that? Today is the first time you heard that, is that right, sir? A. First time I recall hearing it, yes. Q. Okay. . A. reading Q. You ready? A. No. Not yet.

BREAK..

Q. Mr. Gongaware, how you doing? A. Good. Q. Okay. I just wanted to ask you, sir, whether reviewing that document, just that one portion, would refresh your recollection as to whether or not, right before Mr. Jackson's death, Mr. Trell was inquiring about life insurance for Mr. Jackson? A. I really didn't pay much attention to insurance because I had no say in it. So I don't recall this. Q. That doesn't refresh your recollection? A. No. I don't even know if I would have read this because I wasn't paying much attention to insurance.

Q. Okay, sir. Fair enough. Now, when Mr. Jackson died, were you working that day? A. Yes. Q. Where were you working? A. I was -- in the morning I was working out of home. Q. And where were you living then? A. Hermosa Beach. Q. Okay. Weren't you in Redondo Beach when you were told that Michael Jackson died? A. No. Q. You didn't testify to that? A. I don't think so, no. Q. And who notified you? A. Randy called me. Q. Mr. Phillips? A. Yes. Q. He had your telephone number? A. Yes. Q. And he told you that Mr. Jackson had passed away? A. Well, he called me first to say that Frank had called him and said, "get over to the house right away. There seems to be a problem." Randy said that as he got to the house, the ambulance was pulling out, and he followed the ambulance to UCLA. Q. I was just asking you -- Okay. Maybe you were answering it. He told you first there was a problem, right? A. Right.

Q. And later did you learn -- how many calls did you have with Mr. Phillips, from that first call until the time he died? A. The second call was when he informed me that he had died. Q. And do you know at that time where Mr. Phillips was? A. He was at the hospital. Q. And do you know who was there at the hospital with him? A. No. Q. Do you know if Dr. Conrad Murray was there speaking to AEG Live people? A. I don't know who was there. Q. You don't think he was there, or you don't know? A. I don't know who was there. Q. Oh, Okay. Fair enough. Now, did you go to work that day? A. I went into the rehearsal, yeah, at Staples Center, yes. Q. Was there rehearsals going on that day after Mr. Jackson died? A. Not at that point. Q. Did you speak to Kenny Ortega? A. I believe I did, yes. Q. Okay. Did you talk to Mr. Ortega about Mr. Jackson's health condition? A. I don't think that was the topic of discussion. Q. Were you sad that Mr. Jackson died? A. Very much so. Q. Was Mr. Jackson a friend of yours? A. You know, he was a business associate, I guess you'd call it. I did business with him, and we were very friendly.

Q. So you would call him a business associate, is how you would characterize Mr. Jackson? A. Somebody who I was doing business with, yes. Q. He's not a friend of yours who you would hang out with when you weren't doing business? A. No. I didn't hang out with him. Q. But you were sad that he died, right? A. Yes. Q. And after his death, sir, did you and Mr. Phillips communicate about the -- making the This Is It documentary? A. At some point we did. Q. Okay. Did Mr. Phillips ever send you an email where he said that he wanted you to remove footage where Michael Jackson looked like a skeleton? A. He did send me an email like that. Q. Okay. Well, let's play your deposition and see what you said about that. Page 231, lines 18 to 22.

Mr. Panish: Is that Okay? Mr. Putnam: Uh-huh.

(Panish plays video clip of Gongawares deposition):

Q. "Do you recall ever getting an email from Randy Phillips where Mr. Phillips said to you he wanted to remove certain footage where Michael looked like a skeleton? A. "I don't remember that."

Q. Did you change that deposition testimony when you met with your lawyers, sir?

A. No, sir. Q. Okay. Your memory has been refreshed since then, is that right, sir?

Mr. Putnam: Objection, your honor. Misstates the actual testimony. Judge: Overruled.

A. What's the question again, please? Q. Did you change your testimony about that? A. No. Q. And, sir, you now remember, though, right? Getting that email? A. I saw it, yes, as part of my prep. Q. Part of your prep? Okay. In other words, the lawyers showed it to you, and that refreshed your recollection?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation, your honor. Judge: Overruled.

A. I believe so. Q. Let's take a Look at that email. Exhibit 638-115. I'll come show it to you, if you want, but see if you can remember from when the lawyers showed it to you. It's pretty short. Is that the email that you saw, sir, when your lawyers showed you, to refresh your recollection? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And why don't you read to us what Randy Phillips wrote to you August 9th. So that's about six weeks after Mr. Jackson passed away, approximately?

A. About. Q. Okay. Tell us what Mr. Phillips tells you to do? A. "Make sure we take out the shots of MJ in that red leather jacket at the soundstage where the mini movies were being filmed. He looks way too think and skeletal." Q. You think he meant to say, "thin and skeletal"? A. I think so. Q. Okay. And what did you right back? A. "Okay. Will have a Look when it comes on screen." Q. Okay. Sir, and you -- strike that. Let's just play what you said in your deposition about that email. Mr. Panish: 239, line 13, to 232, line 17. Is that Okay? Mr. Putnam: Trying to find it. Mr. Boyle: 239, line 13. Mr. Panish: to 232 -Mr. Boyle: 232, line 17. And just for the record, while they're looking, exhibit 638-115 was also exhibit 20 to Mr. Gongaware's deposition. Mr. Putnam: Okay. Mr. Panish: Okay.

(Panish palys video clip of Gongawares deposition):

Q. "Okay. And I had asked you if you recalled getting an email like This before earlier today. A. "You remember that.

Q.

"I remember that, but I don't remember this email.

A. "Okay. It looks to me like the first email on this page is the lower one where it says on August 9th, 2009, at 10:10 p.m., Randy Phillips wrote: "'make sure we take out the shots of mj in that red leather jacket at the soundstage where the mini movies were being filmed. He looks way too thin and skeletal.' "Mr. Putnam: just for the record, it doesn't say, 'thin.' It says, 'think.' "Mr. Boyle: you're correct. Let me read it again. "It says -- from Randy Phillips, wrote: "'Make sure we take out the shots of mj in that red leather jacket at the soundstage where the mini movies were being filmed. He looks way too think and skeletal.' "Did I read that correctly? A. "Yes, you did.

Q. "And then it looks like you responded at -- well, on the top of the page, it says to 'Randy Phillips from Paul Gongaware, sent 8/10/2009,' which would be the next day, at '1:00 p.M.' and it says, the body of the email says: "'Okay. Will have a Look when it comes on screen.' "Do you see that? A. Q. A. "Yes. "And you understand that Michael Jackson died on June 25th, 2009, correct? "Yes.

Q. "And this August 9th and August 10th, 2009, is obviously after the death of Michael Jackson, right? A. "Right.

Q. "And when -- on the part of the email where it says, Randy Phillips wrote, 'He looks way too T H I N K and skeletal,' do you have an understanding of what Randy Phillips meant? A. "I don't know what he meant.

Q. "Do you think he may have meant that in whatever footage this Is referring to, Michael Jackson looked too thin and skeletal? A. "I don't know what he meant.

Q. "And -- and then you responded -- or you wrote: "'Okay. Will have a Look at it -- will have a Look when it comes on screen.' "Do you know what you were referring to?

A. "No. But I can tell you we didn't edit anything. We didn't keep anything out, based on what Randy wanted. Q. A. Q. A. "Of the movie, you mean? "Right. "So you mean -- but do you think this email chain was referring To the 'this is it' movie? "Probably.

Q. "And do you have any understanding why Randy Phillips would be concerned about Michael looking skeletal in the movie? A. Q. A. "Yeah. I have no idea. "Did you ever talk to him about that? "I don't recall."

Q. Since that time, sir, have you talked to Mr. Phillips about that? A. I don't think I have. Q. Now, sir, the documentary film, you were one of the producers, right? A. Yes. Q. And, sir, the film or the documentary, there were interviews of people on it, right? A. Some, yes. Q. And you wanted to control what the people said in the interviews, correct? A. No. Q. And you didn't want anyone to stress that Michael Jackson was looking emaciated, did you, sir? A. We didn't control anything. Q. My question was: you wanted to control the people to keep it positive, and you wanted them to stress that Michael Jackson was active, engaged, and not the emaciated person, correct? A. No. We didn't try to control any of that.

Q. Okay. Let's look at exhibit 954, sir.

Mr. Boyle: 9154. It's a Defense exhibit. Mr. Panish: Is it okay if I show him you guys can have that. Is it okay if I show him mine? Is it okay?

Q. Is that you, Mr. Gongaware? A. The question again? Q. Are you paulgongaware@concertswest.Com? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Let's look at the full --

Mr. Panish: put it up there.

Q. Now, who are you writing to here, sir? A. Not clear. Q. How about Joann Tominaga? You see that? A. Yes. Q. Who is that? A. She worked with the musicians. Q. Who is power base entertainment? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. Did you okay, as the producer, to let the band, singers and dancers do interviews now as of July 9th, 2009, sir?

A. Yes. Q. Okay. Why don't you read to us what you told Ms. Tominaga about the interviews? A. "We're okay with the band, singers and dancers doing the interviews now. The only thing we ask is that they keep it positive and stress that mj was active, engaged, and not the emaciated person some want to paint him as being." Q. Who is the "some" that wanted to paint him as being emaciated, sir? A. Specifically, I don't know, but there were people like that. Q. Who? A. I don't know. Q. Well, who were you referring to? A. I don't recall who I was referring to there. Q. But that would seem like you're trying to control what people are saying, wouldn't it, sir? A. Well, we're just asking to keep it positive. Certainly not controlling what they're saying. Q. "The only thing we ask," and you're saying what they should say, aren't you, sir? A. Asking. Q. Okay. And you're telling them what not to say, aren't you, sir? A. We're asking them to keep it positive. Q. Right. And not say he was emaciated, right? A. Yes. Q. Was that full disclosure that you wanted them to give, sir? A. I don't understand that question. Q. Well, you use the term full disclosure, don't you? Transparency. You've used that term, too, haven't you, sir? A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Did you ask them to be totally, fully disclosing and transparent with the world, or did you ask them to do their interviews in one sense, or one way versus another? A. Did ask them to keep it positive, yes. Q. So you were controlling the message, weren't you, sir, as a producer of that documentary? A. I don't think so. Q. Okay. Now, sir, when Mr. Jackson died, people emailed you, right? A. Yes. Q. And you told them you worked with elvis, you weren't surprised at all, the things that happened, right? A. I did, yes. Q. And you told them what you were going to work on was getting back -- or trying to recover the losses from the show. That's what you started to work on, right? A. That would have been one of the things, yes. Q. Well, let's look at 9163-1. Who is Linda Cobb, sir? A. Girlfriend of a friend of mine. Q. Okay. Are you a surfer? A. Yes. Q. I guess that's why you live by the beach. A. One of the reasons, yeah. Q. And Ms. Cobb, is that a good friend of yours? A. I knew her. Q. Is that someone that you email back and forth about? A. Not so much anymore.

Q. Okay. Well, certainly in 2009? A. I guess so, yeah. Q. Okay. Well, did you write that email, sir? A. Could I see a copy of it, please? Q. You certainly can. A. Okay. Q. Okay. And this is --

Mr. Panish: put it up. Q. This is Ms. Cobb kind of like sending a condolence to you? A. Yeah. Q. And then she says at the top here, "oi vey." what does that mean? A. That's an expression. Q. What does it mean? A. I don't know. Q. "Oi vey, dude. Big ouch, I'm sure. Hopefully we can catch a Few waves this summer to distract you." Hugs and kisses, or kisses and hugs. I'm not sure. Is this a friend of yours? A. Girlfriend of a friend, yes. Q. And this is kind of a condolence, right? A. Right. Reads that way. Q. And then she's asking you what you're going to do, right? If we go back here. I went too far in the front. It says, "I heard" -- here we go. "Yes. Shock and loss. I heard you planned on being in Londonmost of the year." That would have been for the This Is It, right? A. Yes.

Q. And this is within two weeks of Michael Jackson's death, approximately, correct? A. Right. Q. And she asked you, "what are your plans now?" Right? A. Right. Q. And what did you write back were your plans within two weeks of Michael Jackson -- what were you writing to her that you were going to focus on then, sir? A. "Trying to recover our losses on the show." Q. And that's AEG's losses, their money? A. Yes. Q. That's what you were focused on? A. Yes. Q. All right. Now, sir -- so let's just briefly -- I want to just talk about This Is It. The first 31 -- by the way, how many seats does the 02 arena have for a concert? A. For this one, it was about 15,000. Q. Okay. And that was owned by AEG, right? A. Yes. Q. And 15,000, what was the average ticket price? A. The average was -- the top was 85 pounds, and the second price was, I think, 49.50 in pounds. Q. And at that time pounds was like 2-to-1 to the dollar? A. No. It was fluctuating between 1.45 and 1.6. Q. Okay. So you said 89 to 49? Is that what you said? A. Yes. Q. How many were --

A. 85. Q. How many were at 85? Like half the arena? A. More than that. Q. Okay. So how about 70? Is that like kind of an average, if you take more than half is 89, and the rest was 45, you said, or 49? A. 49, I think it was. Q. Let's just say 50 for the purpose -A. Quick math. Okay. Q. Right. I mean, you were the C.P.A.. What would the average be? A. You could call it 70. Somewhere in there. Pounds. Q. 70 pounds. Let's say 1.50 for an average? A. Okay. Q. So 70 pounds would be $105, right? A. Yeah. Q. So 105 times how many seats? A. 15,000. Q. So what is that for the revenue there? A. A million 550. Somewhere in there. Q. Ballpark? A. In US dollars. A million 5. Q. A million 5 US and 31 shows were first on sale? A. Uh-huh. Q. "Yes"? A. Yes.

Q. And that was 31 times 15,000? A. Yeah. Q. So what's that? A. 465. Q. 465,000 at 105. What does that come out to? A. 47 million, call it. Q. Okay. And how long does it take for 47 million to come in when the tickets went on sale? A. Bang. Went out fast. Q. Fastest you've ever seen it in your life, right? A. It was. Q. Okay. So within two hours? A. Yes. Q. It was instant, wasn't it? A. It wasn't instant because the system took time to sell each ticket. But it was as fast as the system could sell. Q. Right. And then there was another 250,000 people that lined up who wanted to buy more tickets; right? A. That was at the end of the public sale, or the second sale, call it. Q. How many were sold in the second sale? How many shows? A. The other 19. Q. So that's another 19 times 15 times 105? A. Right. Q. How much is that? A. 300 -- 31.

Q. So now we're at 77 million, right? A. Yes. Q. And when did these -- when were these all sold? What was the date? A. It was in March. Q. Okay. And then what happened to that money between march and when Mr. Jackson died? A. It was held by -- I don't know who it was held by. Either the ticketing company or by the arena. Q. But AEG Had control of that money, didn't it, sir? A. If it was held by the arena, yes, they would have. Q. And then there were another 250,000 people who wanted to buy additional tickets, right? A. Right. Q. So that would have been another -- it's a little hard. You have to divide 15,000 into 250. A. Another 20 million. Q. Well, how many shows is that? A. 250 would be --

Mr. Boyle: 15 into 250.

A. Another -Q. 15? A. No. It would be more than that. Q. 18? A. Somewhere in there. Q. So another 18 shows. So that's another you already gave me. How much more money? A. 40 million-plus. Q. Okay. And that's just for the ticket revenue, right?

A. Yes. Q. That doesn't count a lot of other things that go with concerts, right? A. Yes. Q. What else goes with the concerts? As a promoter, that's part of what you're doing, is promoting the show, and everything that goes with it, right? A. Yes. Q. And what else goes with the show? A. Merch. Merchandise. Q. Merchandise? A. That's sold at the show. T-shirts, hats. Q. Posters. And Michael Jackson, that's a Big seller, isn't it? A. It's a Very good one, yes. Q. Could make more than the tickets on merchandise? A. No. Q. No? A. I don't think so, no. Q. Okay. What else do you have that you can make money on? How about refreshments? A. The building keeps that. Q. Who owned the building? A. AEG. Q. So AEG Keeps all that money? A. Yes. Q. They don't give any of that to the artist? A. No. But it's offset, in the sense that Michael didn't pay rent, so that offset the rent.

Q. Well, but, like, every Coke -- do they sell alcohol at these concerts? A. I think they sold beer. Q. Everything that's sold. Cokes, popcorn, peanuts in England? A. Right. Q. All that money, every 15,000, whatever they're buying, that money goes to AEG, right? A. Uhm, the net of it, yes. Q. Right. And then Michael Jackson, as far as you told us the other day, was the biggest star that you knew of, right? A. Yes. Q. And he had unlimited potential, correct? A. His potential was pretty great, yes. Q. And he had an unlimited ceiling if he wanted it, right? A. If he was willing to work that hard --

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Vague.

A. -- he would have done well. Q. Did Michael Jackson -- did you know that he wanted to move to Las Vegas? A. Yes. Q. And in Las Vegas, does AEG Live do any shows there? A. Yes. Q. Do you do residential shows? A. Yes. We have at the Coliseum we have Celine Dion, Shania Twain, Elton John, Rod Stewart and

Jerry Seinfeld. Q. They put on a lot of shows? A. They do well. Q. Are any of these stars as big as Michael Jackson? A. Michael Jackson is as big as any of those. Q. And Michael Jackson, if he wanted to do a residential show and live in Las Vegas, would have no problem getting people to come, would he? A. He would do well. Q. And this AEG Live, Mr. Gongaware, in planning the concert dates for the "this is it," was there an intention by the parties to the contract that there would be more than 50 shows? A. Well, the contract was 31, and then more shows could be added, as was the case. They added -- we added another 19. Q. In other words, sir, was this going to be a multi-city tour?

Mr. Putnam: Objection. Calls for speculation. Judge: Overruled.

A. The only thing we knew is it was going to be 50 shows in London. Michael hadn't agreed to do anything else.

Lunch break

Continued direct examination by Brian Panish:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Gongaware. A. Hello again. Q. Did you go meet with your attorneys for the last hour and a half? A. Had lunch. Q. Did you meet with them during lunch, or not talk about the case again? A. Didn't really talk about the case.

Q. Okay. So you met for -- you were with your lawyers an hour and a half, never mentioned the case. Is that your testimony?

A. We never talked about it.

Q. Never talked about it. Okay. Sir, that means your memory wasn't refreshed about anything, right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So when your lawyer asks the questions, you'll have the same memory as you did when I questioned you, right?

A. I hope so. Q. Okay. Well, you didn't remember a lot, did you, sir? A. If I don't remember, I say so.

Q. Okay. I got that. Now let me show you, sir -- you know what? I'm just going to read this last thing, and I'll be done. Okay? So this would be exhibit -- your testimony under oath September 28th, 2012; and it will Be page number 2567, lines 12 through 21. And I'll Tell you what. When we get it ready, I'm going to read the question, and you, if you would, please, read your Answer that you gave under oath. Okay? Oh, here it is. It's 2566.

Judge: What's the exhibit number?

Mr. Panish: The exhibit number is 630, dash, 15.

Mr. Boyle: 638, dash, 15.

Judge: Mr. Boyle, are you the keeper of the Exhibits?

Mr. Boyle: I'm doing my best, your honor.

Mr. Panish: I need help. I'm just going to go to the first line to Keep it in context, and I'll be done. Okay. So let's say we go to line 1.

Q. Mr. Gongaware, this is regarding the This Is It tour and the shows and that. Okay? Just to orient you.

A. Is this from the Murray trial? Q. Yes, sir. You did testify under oath there, didn't You? A. Yes.

Mr. Panish: Okay. Question -- you can put it Up. And then you'll help me read this,

Mr. Gongaware.(reading document)

Q. Describe for me what it means To have people in the queue with regards to the ticket-selling Process.

A. Well, the queue is just like The lineup of people waiting to get there to buy their tickets. It's Just, a, how many people are actually There waiting.

Q. At the time that the 31 shows Sold out, were there still people Waiting to purchase tickets?

A. Yes. Q. How many? A. At the 31, I'm not sure. I did check at the 50 shows. Q. And what was that number?

A. There were about 250,000 People still in the queue, which would have been enough to sell out Another 50 shows.

Q. Mr. Gongaware, in the planning of the concert dates, was There an intention by the parties to contract that there would be more Than 50 shows? In other words, was This going to be a multi-city tour?

A. Yes. Q. Did you tell the truth when you testified In this case, sir? A. Yes.

Mr. Panish: Nothing further at this time. Thank You very much.

Judge: All right. Thank you. Cross-examination?

Mr. Panish: It's actually redirect, your honor.

Judge: You may --

Mr. Putnam: thank you, your honor.

Judge: you may begin.

Cross-examination by Marvin Putnam:

Q. Hello, Mr. Gongaware. A. Marvin. Q. How are you doing? A. Good. Q. Doing okay?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Have you ever personally been sued before? And I mean personally, you, Paul Gongaware, have you ever personally been sued before for the wrongful death of anyone?

A. No. Q. And have you ever come to trial for such a thing before? A. No. Q. So this is a new experience for you? A. Yes. Q. How is it going so far? A. You'd have to tell me. It's -- it's a little -- it's -- I mean, it's difficult. It's very stressful. Q. Are you nervous? A. Yes. Q. Is it confusing to you in any way? A. Not so confusing, except when the legal stuff starts to -Q. Flying around? A. Yes. Q. All right. If you have any questions as I go along as to what I'm asking, please let me know. Okay?

A. Yes.

Q. And I'm going to try to go through a lot of things that have already been gone over, so we'll be revisiting them. And I hope you can look at this stuff as I show you, and we'll go through and try to -I'll Ask questions, you give answers. It's going to be very

Similar to what happened before, but he'll be making the objections this time. Okay? Let's start with your memory, Mr. Gongaware. Mr. Panish asked you on Tuesday if you have a, quote, really good memory, end quote, or a, quote, very good memory, end quote. And for both, you gave the identical answer. Do you remember what that was?

A. "It's all right." Q. So you didn't say it was very good in either case, or really good, did you? A. No. Q. You said that it's all right? A. Yes. Q. And do you believe your memory is all right? A. Yes. Q. And are you trying to give your best answers today as you remember them? A. Yes.

Q. And you were asked over the last two days about certain emails, and you were asked why you didn't recall certain emails, particularly at your deposition. Do you remember those questions?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember what you gave as an answer to why you couldn't recall them when you were asked that question -- why you couldn't recall it at your deposition?

A. Well, I hadn't reviewed them, so I hadn't seen them in years. Q. Your deposition was in December of 2012, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And your emails that you were asked about, They were emails that had taken place three to four Years before, is that correct?

A. Right. Q. So that would be in 2008 and 2009? A. Yes.

Q. And had you seen any of those emails since 2008 and 2009 at the point you were deposed in December Of 2012?

A. No, I hadn't seen any. Q. So you hadn't gone back and reviewed them, correct? A. No.

Q. And there were a lot of questions asked of you of what you did with your attorneys. Did you go over any of those emails with your attorneys in advance of your deposition?

A. No. Q. So the first time you were seeing them was at your deposition? A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember Mr. Panish asked you specifically how many emails you had handed over to them in discovery? Do you remember being asked that?

A. Yes. Q. And do you remember what your answer was? A. Like a couple thousand, maybe. Q. If I were to represent to you that you said "thousands" -A. Thousands, yes. Q. -- does that sound right? A. Yeah.

Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Leading and Suggestive. Who's testifying here? Judge: Overruled. Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor. I'm trying To bring it back so we don't have to go through all Those questions again, where he was.

Q. Do you remember what Mr. Panish said to you in response? A. No. Q. Do you remember him saying, "really? Because you didn't produce thousands to us"?

Mr. Panish: It's leading and suggestive. Judge: Overruled.

Q. Do you remember? A. I remember that.

Q. Mr. Gongaware, would it surprise you to learn that you had handed over more than 13,000 emails in

discovery?

Mr. Panish: No foundation. Judge: Overruled.

A. It wouldn't surprise me. Q. And that would be thousands, wouldn't it, Mr. Gongaware? A. It would. Q. And do you know that -- what those related to, what time period? A. The period of This Is It and the period leading up to it. Q. So that would be in 2008 and 2009, the 13,000 -- more than 13,000 emails handed over, correct?

A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you have any idea why Mr. Panish would claim otherwise? A. No.

Q. Now, one of the emails that was claimed You didn't hand over, I want to talk to you about. Do you remember when Mr. Panish said to you That he had -- that an email had been sent to your, quote, private email address of kazoodi? Do you remember that?

A. I do. Q. Do you remember you were asked like an hour of questions about that yesterday? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember you were asked about it again this morning? A. Yeah, I was.

Mr. Putnam: Okay. I'd like to bring that email back. This is the one that was given -Mr. Panish: It's different. Mr. Putnam: In this one, your honor, we've taken away what his actual email address -- they had blackened out what his email address was.

Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. I object. I didn't black it out, they did.

Mr. Boyle: They made us do that, your honor. This was the whole private email thing. Mr. Putnam: It was not provided to them blacked Out, your honor. They knew what the email was.

Judge: All right. There's been a number of redactions in the case. Mr. Panish: It was at their request, not ours. Judge: There's been a Number of redactions In the case, a lot of different reasons by a lot of different parties. Mr. Panish: Not by us. Judge: Let's not handle this right now. We're talking about redactions. I don't want to handle This right now. If you want to talk about redactions, We'll go to sidebar. It's a Sensitive subject, it shouldn't be discussed out here. Do you want to have a sidebar?

Mr. Panish: No.

Judge: All right. You may continue.

Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.

Q. Mr. Gongaware --

Mr. Panish: Yes, I do want to have a sidebar on this issue. Judge: All right. (Sidebar) (return to open court) Judge: You may begin. Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor. All right, going back to where we were, we were at exhibit 307, 1 through 4.

Q. Do you have a copy before you, Mr. Gongaware? Did I bring you one? May I approach, your honor?

Judge: Yes. Mr. Putnam: Show him the full document first.

Q. So do you recognize being asked some questions about this series of emails on Tuesday, sir?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, at the time we couldn't see some of The email addresses. And I want to show you the one that you were asked about, which was the -- I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Kazoodi?

A. Yes.

Q. Going to that, you see right there it says kazoodi@earthlink.net. Do you see that?

A. I do.

Q. Now, going through it a little bit, sir, so we can recall -- I can see it right there. So this is sent to a couple of people. It was sent to Frank Dileo. And just to remind the jury, who is Frank Dileo?

A. He was Michael's manager.

Q. So it was sent to Michael's manager, it was sent to what we determined -- is that correct? Kazoodi@earthlink.net, is that an email address that You had at one point?

A. At one point, I did, yeah.

Q. And then you see Leiweke COM, and it Was represented that was a private email account for Tim Leiweke at AEG, correct?

A. Yes.

Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Can we unredact the other addresses, too, then? Judge: We'll take that up later. Let's just continue with the examination.

Mr. Putnam: Okay.

Q. And going forward from there, it says -- This is on Saturday the 20th, correct? A. Yes. Q. And do you recall something important about that day? A. That was the wedding in Pennsylvania that I attended.

Q. And so you were in Pennsylvania that day, and was there something that you understood was occurring here in Los Angeles on that day?

A. Yes. This is after the night of the 19th, there was a meeting scheduled with Michael on the 20th.

Q. And the subject line, could you read that To me? A. That one is "trouble at the Front." Q. Small "t," capital "f"? A. Yes. Q. And it says "FW." Do you understand what "FW" means? A. It's "forward." Q. And do you remember being asked if you could recall ever receiving this email? A Yes. Q. And what was your answer? A. I didn't remember getting it. Q. And did you say, "I don't recall"? A. I don't recall.

Q. And do you remember Mr. Panish saying, "Oh, This is another email where you don't recall?"

A. I don't remember that. Q. Okay. Mr. Gongaware, do you remember receiving this email? A. I don't.

Q. And is that what you provided as testimony On Tuesday -- or yesterday. Sorry -- you didn't remember receiving it?

A. Yes, I believe so. Q. And do you remember being asked if you'd ever read it before? A. I don't remember that.

Q. Do you remember being asked if you had failed to turn that document over in discovery?

A. Yes.

Q. I'd like to pull out from the -- so we can See the whole document. You see -- and before I zoom In, so it's a two-page document, and these are the two pages, correct?

A. Yes. Q. I apologize. Three-page -- a four-page document. Do you see them there? A. Yes. Here.

Q. And on the lower right-hand corner, you'll see a number that begins AEGL. Do you see that?

A. Yes. Q. Do you have an understanding as to what that represents, sir?

A. I think that's the number assigned to this page of this document that was turned over.

Q. And that's where we turned over things in discovery from AEG Live and gave them to Plaintiffs' counsel?

Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Who is testifying, the witness or Mr. Putnam? Objection. Judge: What's the objection? Mr. Panish: Leading. Judge: Sustained. Mr. Panish: Suggestive. Judge: Sustained.

Q. So you said that is -- sorry. What does "AEGL." represent to you, sir?

Mr. Panish: Well, objection on this -- foundation. If he knows about this. Judge: Overruled. He may know.

A. AEG is AEG, I don't know what The "L" means. Q. Okay. Do you have an understanding that you turned over documents to the other side? By that, I mean Plaintiffs' counsel.

A. Yes. Q. And do you have an understanding as to whether those documents are stamped in some measure?

A. Yes, I believe that's what this represents. Q. I'm going to ask you something else. Do you have any understanding as to how many documents as AEG Live were handed over to Plaintiffs' counsel?

A. No. Q. No idea at all? A. No. Q. Now, yesterday when you were asked about this, all you could see was the kazoodi part, right?

A. Yes. Q. Now, have you only had one kazoodi account over the years? A. I may have had more than one, I think. Q. And you were asked yesterday whether or not this was an email you received. And now you know what email account it is, which is an Earthlink account?

A. Right. Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether the Earthlink account was opened at this time? A. It was long gone at this time.

Mr. Putnam: I'm going to -- may I approach -Judge: I'm sorry. I'm confused. Earthlink is gone at what time? What are we talking about? Mr. Putnam: I'm talking about on June 20th, 2009.

Mr. Panish: Well, who's testifying?

Q. Do you have an Understanding, sir, as to whether or not your Earthlink account was available on June 20th, 2009? A. No, I wasn't using it then. Q. And is that what you said yesterday? A. I didn't talk about an EarthLink account yesterday.

Mr. Putnam: Okay. Your honor, may I approach the witness with something to refresh his recollection, maybe? Mr. Panish: It's his own witness. Judge: That's all right. He can refresh his own witness. All right. You may. Mr. Panish: What's he going to show him? Mr. Putnam: I'm going to show you, too, sir. Mr. Panish: Is this a new exhibit? Mr. Putnam: Yes. It will be something provided to you in discovery, 13398. Mr. Panish: It's not on the exhibit list. Mr. Putnam: It wasn't on the exhibit list because we didn't know you were asking about kazoodi yesterday.

Judge: You can use anything to refresh recollection, whether it's on the exhibit list or not, So let him continue.

Mr. Putnam: Review this, sir. Please read the whole thing, if you would.

Gongaware: It's to Randy -Mr. Putnam: No, no. Don't read it out loud, Sir. Judge: Read it to yourself. Gongaware: Sorry. Judge: Is that it on the board? Mr. Putnam: No. Judge: Okay. Different. Mr. Putnam: May I approach with one for your honor? Judge: That's okay. I don't need it. Mr. Putnam: Okay. Judge: Are you done reading it? Gongaware: Yes. Judge: Okay.

Q. Does this refresh your recollection, sir, in any way as to whether your account was open on the 20th of June, 2009? A. The account was closed at that time. Q. And, in fact, you didn't know whether it was open at that time, correct? A. Earlier I said that, yeah. Q. And, in fact, you were asked several times why you didn't hand over the document in discovery, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Couldn't hand it over if you didn't have It, could you?

Mr. Panish: Objection, leading and suggestive. Judge: Overruled. Mr. Panish: And also, your honor, I object that this document does not purport to say what the witness said it does. Judge: Then I'm sure on redirect you will bring that out. Mr. Panish: I will. Judge: Overruled. You may continue. Gongaware: Okay. Is there a question still? Mr. Putnam: Yes, sir. So why don't we just jump back so everyone knows where we are with this.

Q. Sir, was it, in fact, correct when you said that you couldn't recall this email -- do you recall ever having seen this email before it was given to you yesterday? A. No. Q. And as we sit here today, do you know whether you ever received this email or saw it before today -- yesterday? A. According to this, it says --

Mr. Panish: Your honor, you just told him he couldn't do that. Judge: you can't read it. You can read it to refresh your recollection and then just testify. Gongaware: I'm sorry. Okay. I never received the email.

Q. And going on from there, if I can, sir, so it looked like you couldn't remember before, but actually could you remember the other day When you said you didn't remember seeing this ever before?

A. I couldn't remember --

Judge: That's a Little -- that's a Little Bit of a -- rephrase that. Mr. Putnam: Okay. I'll just skip. I think People understand what I'm doing.

Q. When you can't recall seeing email previously, what are you saying, Mr. Gongaware? A. That I can't recall. Q. And -- but when that email has been from you, have you ever denied that you sent it? A. No, I never denied it. Q. And when an email has been delivered to you that says "Paul Gongaware," have you ever said, in deposition or anyplace, that you didn't receive it?

A. No. Q. And, in fact, you've then been asked questions about that email. What have you then tried to do? Have you answered the questions?

Mr. Panish: I'm going to object, vague, ambiguous, overbroad. Judge: It's a little vague, "What did you Try to do?"

Q. If someone asked you questions about that email, despite the fact that you can't remember it, do you refuse to give any answers?

A. No. I just try to recall what I remember. Q. Going back to the email that you were given originally, not the one I just gave you, but the one purportedly sent to you --

A. Yes. Q. -- can you tell me who that's from? A. It's from Randy. Q. And is there an email address there? A. Not on this one.

Q. I'm sorry. For Mr. Phillips. Oh, there isn't. Let me ask you a question. Do you have an understanding as to whether Or not Mr. Phillips -- . You can't know if It doesn't say there. Never mind. Let's go back to 2008/2009. At the height of your preparations for the This Is It tour, did you have any understanding as to approximately how many emails you were receiving a day related to the tour?

A. Hundreds. Hundreds. Q. Hundreds? Did you read them all? A. No. Q. Did you respond to them all? A. No. Q. Are you claiming you didn't get those emails? A. No. Q. Why wouldn't you read them all? A. Mostly it was just the time factor, or it was something that didn't have to do with me. Q. Let me ask you a question about that, sir. Where are AEG Live's offices in Los Angeles? A. On Wilshire. Q. Wilshire Boulevard? A. Yes. Q. And are there more than -- is there more than one office there for AEG Live?

A. For AEG Live, well, there's a complex of offices, yes. Q. And approximately how many offices are there in that complex of AEG Live offices? A. Well, we have a couple hundred people working there, so, you know, 50 or more. Q. Okay. Are any of those offices yours, sir? A. No. Q. Do you have an office at AEG Live? A. No. Q. Do you have an office somewhere else? A. My house. Q. And if I may -- why don't you have an office there? A. I don't need to be there. Q. Why not, sir? A. I don't really deal with what's going on there. I do my own projects.

Q. And just vaguely, you don't have to go through all of them -- you say you do your own projects. What does that mean?

A. The projects that I'm assigned to, I -- I do them, I just do them from wherever I am. I don't have to go into an office to do them.

Q. Okay. Well, a number of times it's been represented that you are the CEO of AEG Live. Are you the CEO of AEG Live? A. Of AEG Live Concerts West. Q. What -- who is the CEO of AEG Live? A. Randy.

Q. All right. But you're called the CEO of AEG Live Concerts West? A. Well, the Co-CEO John Meglen is my partner. Q. And so the Co-CEO Of Concerts West doesn't have an office at AEG Live? A. No. Q. Do you have an understanding as to why you're called the CEO of Concerts West? A. I was the founder of the company with John, and I've just maintained that title. Q. That's a title you've maintained ever since the acquisition of Concerts West by AEG Live? A. Yes. Q. When was that, approximately, sir, if you Know? A. 2000, somewhere in there. Q. So that happened 13 years ago, approximately? A. Yes, approximately. Q. But you've kept the title since it was acquired, correct? A. Yes. Q. But you don't have an office at AEG Live? A. No. Q. But you've continued to work on special projects for AEG Live? A. Yes.

Q. Now, going back to 2008/2009, you said that at the height of that, you were receiving approximately -- or hundreds of emails a day -- is that correct? -- related to the project?

A. Yes. Q. If you didn't have an office, how were you receiving those emails? A. On my computer.

Q. And where is your computer? A. It's always with me.

Q. Now, during your deposition, there were a lot of things -- a lot of points of your deposition were shown. Do you remember seeing those the last couple of days?

A. Yes.

Q. When you were asked questions during your deposition about an email that you hadn't seen in the Intervening three or four years, the fact that you hadn't seen them, did that stop you from trying to answer the questions?

A. No. I just talked about what I recalled. Q. And when you couldn't recall, what would you say? A. "I don't recall." Q. Now, that was December of 2012. We're now at trial in 2013, its six or seven months later.

Mr. Panish: I'll object, that's -- misstates the facts. Mr. Putnam: Okay. Sorry. It's about five months later.

Q. Is that correct? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And in that time period, in those intervening five months before coming to trial, have you looked at various of your emails to try to prepare for trial here?

A. Yes. Q. And why did you look at those emails?

A. Well, in the deposition, they kind of came At me in a random way, and I wanted to put everything In context and sit down and think about what happened and where my mind was at the time.

Q. And did that result because your attorney said, "Here, you gotta look at these"? A. No. I wanted to look at them. Q. In fact, did you say something to your attorneys? A. Yeah. Q. What did you say? A. "I want to look at those." Q. And did you say specifically what you wanted to look at? A. Well, I wanted to look at the ones that were in the deposition. Q. Now, despite that, are there still things You don't recall? A. Yes. Q. And are there, however, things that now you think you may have some memory of? A. Yes. Q. Is that memory perfect? A. No. Q. Have you tried to give your best testimony here over the last two and a half days? A. Yes, I have.

Q. Now I'm going to ask you about a couple of things that it appears that you did recall, so I can start

there. Do you recall testifying about a phone call that you made to Dr. Conrad Murray at the direction of Michael Jackson and being told by Dr. Conrad Murray That he wanted $5 million?

A. Yes, I remember that. Q. And is that something you remember doing? A. Oh, yes. Q. And did you testify about that at your deposition? A. Yes. Q. And did you testify about that at the criminal trial of Dr. Conrad Murray? A. Yes.

Q. And is that something that you spoke with The LAPD about when they were preparing their criminal trial against Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes.

Q. So that's -- has that ever been something where you said you don't recall that conversation?

A. No.

Q okay. So we have a phone call -- and was that the first time you ever spoke with Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes. Q. Okay. So just for shorthand for the moment, I'm going to call that the $5 million call.

A. Okay. Q. Okay? So you recall the $5 million call? A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, do you also recall testifying about a subsequent -- a second call with Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes.

Q. And is that the call where you offered Dr. Conrad Murray the $150,000 -- have you testified about that call that you said that you offered him $150,000 at the direction of Michael Jackson?

Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Every question is leading and suggestive of the answer, calling for a yes or no.

Mr. Putnam: Your honor, I'm asking if he recalls testifying to the same. Judge: Overruled.

A. Yes, I remember. Q. So you remember -- do you remember that telephone conversation? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember testifying about that conversation? A. Yes. Q. And did you testify about that conversation at your deposition? A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember testifying about that second conversation at the criminal trial of Dr. Conrad Murray? A. Yes, I did.

Q. And do you remember telling the police about that telephone -- about that second telephone call in their investigation of Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes.

Q. So I'll call that the $150,000 call. So you remember, as we sit here today, the $5 million call, correct?

A. Yes. Q. And you remember, as we sit here today, the $150,000 call? A. Yes. Q. Now, are these the -- did you ever have any other telephone conversation with Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. No.

Q. So the only two times you ever spoke with Dr. Conrad Murray on the phone were those two times?

A. Yes. Q. Are you sure of that? A. Yes, I am sure. Q. Why?

A. I remember them, that was -- Dr. Murray, I just remember them.

Q. And if you couldn't recall --. If you were uncertain of that, would you tell me so?

A. Yeah, I would.

Q. So let me also ask about two other things that you've testified about. Do you remember testifying about the first time you actually met Dr. Conrad Murray at Mr. Jackson's Carolwood home?

A. Yes. Q. And do you remember testifying as to who You believed were at that meeting? A. Yes. Q. And who did you testify was at that meeting? A. It was Michael, Kenny, Randy. I believe Frank was there, as well -- Dr. Murray was there. Q. And are you sure that's the first time you Ever met Dr. Conrad Murray? A. Yes. Q. And are you sure that was at Carolwood? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember that meeting? A. I do. Q. Do you remember all the specifics of the Meeting? A. No.

Q. Now, that meeting, I'll call that the Carolwood meeting. That Carolwood meeting, is that something That you testified about at your deposition?

A. Yes, I did. Q. Is that something that you testified about At the criminal trial? A. I did.

Q. And is that something that the police interviewed you about when they were investigating for the criminal trial of Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes. Q. So that was the first time you ever met Dr. Conrad Murray, correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you recall testifying about one other time that you met Dr. Conrad Murray? A. I did, yes. Q. And what was that time?

A. It was at -- it was at the Forum, I believe, and he was attending a rehearsal, and I went up and said hi to him.

Q. And do you remember testifying previously about just that in your deposition? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember testifying about just that at the criminal trial of Dr. Conrad Murray? A. Yes.

Q And do you remember testifying about that -- not testifying. Pardon me. Do you remember talking to the LAPD About that when they talked to you in preparation for the criminal trial of Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes. Q. And that was the second time you met Dr. Conrad Murray, correct? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember that as we sit here today? A. I do. Q. And if you can recall, how long was that encounter with Dr. Conrad Murray? A. The second one? Q. Yes, the one at the Forum. A. A Minute or two, maybe. Q. So I'll call that the Forum meeting with Dr. Conrad Murray. A. Okay. Q. Do you recall if anybody else was with him? A. When I talked to him, he was just standing on the floor of the -- arena floor. Q. Do you remember anything else about that encounter, sir? A. No. Just saying hello to him. Q. And you had met him once before at Carolwood, correct? A. Yes. Q. So I now have you meeting Dr. Conrad Murray twice. Is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Did you meet him any other time besides those two? A. No.

Q. Are you sure of that? A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And, obviously, I'm talking about before Michael Jackson's death. Did you ever see him at any point after Michael Jackson's death?

A. Just at the trial. Q. And by that you mean at his criminal trial, saw him there? A. Yes. Q. So before the passing of Mr. Michael Jackson, you saw Dr. Conrad Murray twice, correct? A. Right. Q. And before the passing of Mr. Jackson, you spoke to him on the telephone twice? A. Yes.

Q. And as you sit here today, can you recall any other time that you saw Dr. Conrad Murray prior to Mr. Jackson's passing?

A. No.

Q. And prior to Mr. Jackson's passing, can you remember talking to Dr. Conrad Murray at any other time on the telephone besides the two you've just mentioned?

A. No.

Mr. Putnam: All right. I just want to establish a little bit about your memory before we move on,

sir. Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. I move to strike counsel's comment. Judge: Overruled, motion denied. Mr. Putnam: Mr. Gongaware, I'm going to start at the beginning.

Q. How did you first get involved in promoting and producing concerts? A. Back in college, I promoted a couple of shows, promoted some dances. Q. Did you say after college? A. No. In school. Q. Oh, in college? A. Yeah. Q. Now, where did you go to college, sir? A. Waynesburg College in Pennsylvania.

Q. And if you don't mind my asking -- put it this way. Did you graduate from that college, sir?

A. Yes. Q. What year did you graduate? A. 1969.

Q. So sometime prior to your graduation in 1969, you worked on some concerts in -- at Waynesburg College?

A. Yes. Q. You don't have to go into details, but as a couple things -- why? Why did you do that in college?

A. I was always interested in this, always wanted to do that. Q. Do you remember any of the bands you worked With at that time? A. The OJays, Jethro Tull didn't show up. Q. Excuse me? A. Jethro Tull, but he didn't show up. Q. Do you remember why? A. No, I don't remember why. Q. But you remember he didn't show up? A. Right. Q. And this is all while you were in college? A. Yes. Q. Did you work on concerts during your summers in college? A. No. Q. So this is something you did during College? A. Yes. Q. And -A. Promoted dances, as well, in that time Period. Q. What do you mean by "promoted dances"? A. Just hired bands, sold tickets. Q. At college? A. Yes. Q. And so you graduated in 1969. What was your degree in, sir? A. Accounting. Q. Accounting student by day, producing concerts at night? A. Something like that.

Q. Okay. When you graduated from college, did you then go out and start producing shows? A. When I graduated, I went to work for Arthur Anderson in New York City. Q. Were you -- in what capacity were you working for Arthur Anderson? A. I was an auditor. Q. What was your degree in from Waynesburg? A. Accounting. Q. It was accounting? A. Yes.

Q. So you went off to be an auditor and you worked for Arthur Anderson. And what is Arthur Anderson?

A. They're accountants and auditors. Q. And it's the same Arthur Anderson that we would know today? A. Well, they don't exist anymore.

Q then it would not be the same Arthur Anderson that we know today. What happened to them, if you know?

A. They got involved in the -- I think it was The Enron scandal, and it ended up shutting down. Q. Were you working for them at the time? A. No. Q. So -- was it 1969 that you went off to work For Arthur Anderson in New York City? A. Yes. Q. And how long did you work there?

A. Just maybe a little over two years. You had to work two years in public accounting in order to get your CPA, so I worked long enough to get that.

Q. And what is your CPA? A. Certified public accountant. Q. And did you have to -- is that a license? A. Yes.

Q. And you've been asked some questions on Tuesday about your CPA License. Do you remember those questions?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember being asked on Tuesday whether you had testified at your deposition as to whether your licenses were current? Do you remember that?

A. Yes.

Q. And I'm going to ask you a question, sir. Do you remember testifying about this at your deposition?

A. Yes. Q. Do you recall exactly what you said at your deposition? A. No.

Q. And you weren't shown that on Tuesday, were you? A. I don't think so, no.

Mr. Putnam: Can I show it to him, if you have It? I'll just show him the excerpt to refresh his recollection. Gongaware, 30, line 7, through 31, Line 10.

Mr. Panish: Can I see it? Mr. Putnam: You don't have it? Mr. Panish: No, I don't. Mr. Putnam: I would like to bring it up, your honor. Mr. Panish: We actually do have it if you'd like me to give this back to him. Mr. Putnam: If you could so I can approach him? Mr. Panish: Sure. Mr. Putnam: May I approach, your honor? Let me find that for you, sir. It's page 30, line 7 -okay. So from right here -- do you see that? To the next page, which is 31, line 10.

Q. All right? A. Yes.

Mr. Putnam: Why don't you look at that, see if That refreshes your recollection. Judge: Read it to yourself. Mr. Panish: What's the question? Mr. Putnam: I'm asking him if this will refresh his recollection of what he spoke about in his deposition in terms of his licensing.

Mr. Panish: What page are you on? Mr. Putnam: 30, line 7, through 31, line 10. Gongaware: Yes.

Q. Does that refresh your recollection, sir? A. Yes. Q. Is that your testimony at your deposition? A. Yes. Q. And did you, in fact, testify at your deposition that your CPA Licenses were still in good standing?

Mr. Panish: It's calling -- it's an improper question, your honor. Judge: Overruled. Gongaware: No. I said I wasn't current.

Q. In fact, did you talk about the fact -- what did you say would be required for them to be current? A. There's a continuing education requirement For CPA's, and I hadn't done that. Q. And did you say that, in fact, at your deposition? A. Yes. Q. So you actually said that you were not currently still with a current license as a CPA, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. But at some point, were your licenses ever current? A. Well, they were, yes, back then. Q. And when is "back then," sir? A. Early '70's.

Q. And was that in -- where did you have licenses back then, sir? A. New York and in Washington. Q. But you haven't kept current with your requirements for licenses since that time, is that correct? A. That's right. Q. And, in fact, is that what you said at your deposition? A. Yes.

Mr. Putnam: Now, going back -- so you got your CPA exam -- I'm just going to leave that up there if I can, your honor. Or do you want me to close it? Judge: No. That's fine.

Q. So you worked at Arthur Anderson for two years, then went and got your CPA license, is that correct? A. Well, I passed the exam before the two Years, and I worked for just a little bit longer than two years. Q. And after that, did you leave and go work for another accounting agency? A. No. Q. Did you work for any other accounting firm? A. No. Q. Why did you leave? A. I didn't like that work. Q. Why didn't you like that work?

A. You know, it's like -- accountant is being like a historian, and an auditor is, you know, checking the historian's work. I just -- I want to do -- I want to do things and not just be an accountant.

Q. And so you quit after about two years. Does that mean you quit in approximately 1971? A. Yes, something like that. Q. And when you left, did you have another Job? A. No. Q. What did you go do? A. I ski bummed for a winter. Q. All right. Where did you ski bum? A. In Taos, New Mexico.

Q. Taos, New Mexico. So you went off skiing in Taos -- and did you at some point -- were you working as a ski Instructor -- did you have any job at that time?

A. I was doing some bookkeeping to try to pay for my lodging. Q. And did a point come where you ended up being gainfully employed again? A. Well, I don't know what you mean by "gainfully employed." it took a while to get that. Q. Okay. Well, did you end up going back into the music business at any point? A. Yes, I did. Q. And when was that?

A. In September of '72, I promoted the Grateful Dead at Folsom Field in Boulder, Colorado. It was a stadium.

Q. And how did that come about, sir? A. Well, you know, I'm not exactly sure. I was able to secure the venue, and I talked to the Dead, And

they said yes. Q. And did you know the Dead at that point? A. No. Q. By "the Dead," you mean the Grateful Dead, Right? A. The Grateful Dead, yes. Q. So did you know anybody in their management at the time? A. No. Q. Did you know any members of the band? A. No. Q. Did you know anybody who was promoting them? A. No. Q. Did you know anybody who was producing them? A. No.

Q. So how did it come to be that in 1972 -- September of 1972, it came to be that you had a show with the Grateful Dead? How did you do that?

A. I don't know. They said yes, and I did the Show. Q. Well, who asked them to do it? A. I did. Q. And did you could call them? How did you do It? A. Yeah, pretty much. Q. All right. And was this the first show that you had produced since college? A. Yes. Q. And did you produce it and promote it?

A. No. Just promoted it. Q. Just promoted it? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Was the show a success? A. Yes. It sold out. Q. How were the -- what did you do with the profits? A. I had some investors, and I paid them back and made a little money on it. Q. What do you mean by the fact you had investors?

A. I went around and got friends and people to put up some money so I had enough money to make the deposits and so forth to make the show happen.

Q. And is this something that you all did by yourself?

A. Pretty much. There was a Guy from Arthur Anderson named Al Cohen who was in Denver at the time and helped me.

Q. And if you'd just answered this, I missed it. I apologize. What did you do with the profits then? A. Paid back the investors and kept a Little. Q. And did you do any more shows after that? A. Yes. Q. What did you do next?

A. I started promoting, I did some Grateful Dead shows in the Midwest, I did a few shows with Three Dog Night, I did something with Jackson Browne, Phoebe Snow, a few others.

Q. And was this all in the early '70's? A. Yes. Q. So were those all -- were you promoting all those shows, or did you produce any of them? A. No, just promoting. Q. And were you promoting these for some other company or by yourself? A. It was for me. Q. So you were an independent promoter? A. Yes, very independent. Q. What do you mean? A. It was just me. Q. Did a Time come where you ever stopped being an independent promoter?

A. Around 1975, I was doing the Grateful Dead In Oklahoma City, and I met Terry Bassett, who was promoting the Three Dog Night show there, as well, and struck up a conversation, a friendship with him. He was a -- I think he was a partner in Concerts West, and he hired me to go to work for Concerts West, the original one.

Q. Okay. And let me ask you a question about that. The -- when you say the original Concerts West, there's been some conversations and some questions about Concerts West. Explain to me, this Concerts West that you're talking about, is that the same company that you are now called the CEO of?

A. No. That was years ago. That was the original One. Q. So there was an original Concerts West, and this guy -A. Yes --

Q. My writing is not great. Terry Bassett? A. Yes. Q. So Terry Bassett, he's with this company Called Concerts West? A. Yes. Q. And did there later come to be a different company called Concerts West? A. Yes. John and I, when we formed Concerts West Years later, we took up that name. Q. So we'll get to that. So now we're talking about some other organization called Concerts West that Mr. Bassett was with. A. Yes. Q. And did you go start working with Mr. Bassett at Concerts West around this time? A. Yes, but they -- Terry ran the Dallas office, and they actually sent me to Seattle to work For Tom Hulett. Q. I'm sorry. I couldn't hear that. A. They sent me to work in Seattle to work for Tom Hulett. Q. Hulett? A. Yes. Q. And this was around 1975? A. Yes, somewhere in there. Q. And how long did you work with this Concerts West in Seattle? A. I don't know, maybe ten years, maybe not quite that much. Q. So approximately 1975 to 1985? A. Yeah, somewhere in there.

Q. Now, again, I won't go into all kinds of detail, but what type of work with you -- strike that. Let me ask a different question. You said you were a very independent promoter, and now you're going to work

for a company called Concerts West in their Seattle office. Were they concert promoters, as well?

A. Yes. Q. Why did you decide to stop being an independent promoter? A. The money was steady. Q. And can I understand from that, your Answer -- does that mean you didn't find the money Steady when you were an independent promoter? A. Not at all. Q. And why is that?

A. Well, it was, you know -- didn't always make money on shows, didn't always have shows, it was hard to -- you know, to get shows.

Q. Now, what were some of bands that you worked with in this period of Concerts West while you were in Seattle? I mean from 1975 to 1985.

A. Bad Company, worked on some Led Zeppelin shows, Beach Boys, Chicago, Eric Clapton, more. They Were -- it was a big operation. I can't recall all of them right now.

Q. And just generally, what type of work were you doing for Concerts West with these shows at the time?

A. I was a promoter. Q. And what did that mean at that time?

A. The same thing it does now. You know, putting tickets on sale, advertising and promoting Shows, making arrangements.

Q. But back then, there wasn't the internet, correct? A. Oh, no. Q. Did Ticketmaster exist back then? A. No. This is long before Ticketmaster.

Q. So you mentioned Oklahoma, so I'll use Oklahoma. If you were going to put on a show in Oklahoma, you were going to promote that, how could you do that?

A. Well, you'd have to secure the venue and set up all the advertising and promotion. Back then, you'd have to order hard tickets. And Oklahoma City Had a -- I guess a Ticket operation, you'd call it. They had a guy named Ron Nance who had several outlets around town, and you put the tickets into the outlets, and he put them up and sold them.

Q. Now, what did you call him, Ron or Rod Nance? A. Ron, yeah. Q. How is it, if you know, that you can remember Ron Nance as you sit here today, but you can't remember some of those emails that you were asked about? A. I don't know. Just sticks in my mind. Q. Okay. And so you'd go out and you'd promote in Oklahoma City, and that's how -- you'd set up an operation for promoting if you did a concert there? A. Yes. Q. Is that the type of work you were doing at this time in Concerts West?

A. Yes. Q. I want to ask you about a specific artist because there have been some emails that you were asked about that I'm not sure it's from this time period. Do you remember we've seen now two different sets of emails over two days relating to Elvis Presley? A. Yes. Q. Was -- were you -- was it in this time period that you worked with Elvis Presley? A. Yes, I was -- Jerry Weintraub was Elvis's Promoter, and Concerts West actually handled the dates For Jerry, and I was -- Concerts West assigned me to Colonel Parker. Q. And who is Colonel Parker again, sir? A. He was Elvis's manager.

Mr. Putnam: I'll find the first one -- one second. Hopefully I have this right. One second. I apologize. I think I have this right. I think the trial exhibit you were asked about was 9098. You were asked about this two days ago. May I approach, your honor? Judge: Yes. Mr. Putnam: Now, let's pull back to see the whole thing first, if I can. So this is a one-page document, again, With -- number 9098.

Q. While you're looking at it, I'm going to ask you, do you remember being asked about this exchange of emails two days ago? A. Yes. Q. And I'm going to go through it. Do you remember not going through the emails at the time, two days ago, going through each line of the email?

A. I think we did.

Q. And your questions -- do you remember being asked questions about each line? A. About some of it, at least, yeah. Q. Some of it? Okay. I'm going to go through all of it, If I can. All right? A. Okay.

Q. So let's start with what appears to be the first one. Do you see at the bottom there, it says "July 5 --" Thank you. It was June 25th, 2009. And could you please read that to me, sir?

A. "Hey, Paul. Sorry to hear about MJ and All the consequences that has for people at this Moment. Hope things will get sorted out. G."

Q. And you were asked who Gabe Sutter was, correct?

A. Initially, Mr. Panish asked me who Gabe Sutton was. I think he asked me twice, and I Didn't know who Gabe Sutton was. But then he referred to this, which is Gabe Sutter, and I did know him.

Q. Who is Gabe Sutter, sir? A. He was a -- he was a tech on Dangerous, might have been on History, as well.

Q. And did you have an understanding as to what Mr. Sutter meant when he asked you -- when he said He was sorry to hear about MJ And all the consequences that has for people at this moment?

A. Yeah, I do remember. Q. And what was your understanding as to what he meant?

A. Well, when a major artist like this dies, It immediately puts a hundred or more people out of work and just in a heartbeat, everything changes, and everything that was up to that instant is completely different, and it's -- it's such an incredible shock to -- you know, to go through that and experience it.

Q. And then let's go to the next line that you Have. You have, on July 5th, 2009 -- so that's approximately a Week and a half later, is that correct?

A. Something like that. Q. Could you read that to us, please?

A. "Thanks, Gabe. I was working on the Elvis Tour when he died, so I kind of knew what to expect. Still quite a shock."

Q. And what do you mean by that?

A. Well, kind of what I just talked about. I mean, it all changes in an instant, and -- and I think that's -- I think that's what I was referring to, that, you know, everything -- everything changes and it's just different.

Q. Now, were you working on an Elvis Presley Tour at the time that he passed? A. Yes.

Q. And what was it like after he passed? What Were the consequences as -- for everyone as discussed Here? What were the consequences at that time, if you can recall?

A. Well, you just have all these people out of work. The ones that worked for Elvis were permanently out of work. And then the estate takes over, and everything is different, you have nothing to say about anything. It's all up to the estate at that point.

Q. And when you said in response that "I was working on the Elvis tour when he died, so I kind of knew what to expect," were you talking about what happened after the passing of a major artist?

A. Yes.

Q. Let me ask you, did you mean in any way when you wrote that that you expected Michael Jackson to die?

A. No, not at all.

Q. Was there any point before Mr. Jackson's passing where you ever even considered the idea that Mr. Jackson might pass?

A. No, never.

Q. Do -- you remember seeing a bunch of emails, correct, sir, that were shown to you over the last couple of days? For example, from Kenny Ortega expressing concern about Mr. Jackson's nutrition. Do you remember seeing those?

A. Yes.

Mr. Panish: Well, it's, number one, leading. Number two, misstates what the emails were addressing.

Mr. Putnam: We talked about nutrition, your honor, for a day and a half.

Judge: We did, there was a certain email. What is your objection?

Mr. Panish: My objection is it's leading, Misstates what all the emails -- he said all the emails that talk about nutrition. That wasn't what all the emails talked about that we showed him.

Mr. Putnam: I'll rephrase it if you'd like, your Honor.

Judge: Okay. Rephrase it.

Q. Do you remember being asked about any email or emails from Kenny Ortega where he expressed concern about Mr. Jackson's nutrition?

A. Yes. Q. Do you have an understanding of why Mr. Jackson died? A. I believe I do. Q. And what is that understanding, sir? A. He died from an overdose of propofol.

Q. Do you have an understanding of Mr. Jackson Having passed because of a problem with his

nutrition?

A. No.

Q. Do you remember looking at a bunch of stuff From Kenny Ortega, various emails or whatnot, where Mr. Ortega talked about a concern for Mr. Jackson and his physical therapy?

A. Yes. Q. Do you remember others that talked about his physical stamina? A. Yes.

Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether Mr. Jackson passed because of a problem he had with His -- his physical stamina?

Mr. Panish: Objection; leading and suggestive of the answer. Also no foundation for this witness.

Judge: Overruled.

A. He didn't die from those things. Q. What did he die from, sir, In your understanding? A. An overdose of propofol. Q. And at the time of Mr. Jackson's passing, did you have any understanding that Mr. Jackson was actually getting the drug called propofol? A. I had no idea. Q. At the time of Mr. Jackson's passing, had you ever heard of the drug propofol?

A. No.

Q. Going back to these emails about Elvis, and the idea of knowing what it's like at the time, do you have an understanding as to -- well, I should ask first, how old were you when you worked on the Elvis Tour?

A. Seven. Q. No. How old were you, sir? A. In my 20's. Q. I might have been seven. 20's. Okay. A. Yes. Q. And your job at that time -- what was your job on the Elvis tour? A. The Colonel sent me out to -- to advance the shows. When the tickets were going to go on sale, on like the Thursday night, he would put the -- he would have the arena manager do a Press conference, and they would announce that Elvis is coming. And as soon as that happened, there were lines at the box office, and they just -- they were there for a couple of days. So then the next day, on -- on like the Friday, the Colonel would buy every radio station in town. He'd buy like 10 or 12 spots, every radio station, it didn't matter what the format was, and just pounded Elvis, Elvis, Elvis. And then the Saturday morning, usually About 10:00 o'clock, the tickets would go on sale, and I was there to make sure that all the tickets in the front rows went to the people who were standing in line, and then I was to report to the Colonel every hour on the sales.

Q. And that's -- is that what your job was at the time of Mr. Presley's passing? A. Yes. Q. Do you have an understanding as you sit here today as to the cause of death for Mr. Presley?

A. I believe I do. Q. And what do you believe that to be? A. It was a heart ailment. Q. Heart ailment? A. Yes. Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether Mr. Presley passed because of propofol? A. No, he didn't pass because of that. Q. Do you know whether propofol even existed at that time? A. I have no idea.

Mr. Putnam: Going back to this email -- are we taking a break, your honor? I can keep going.

Judge: Jurors, break? Court reporter, break? Yes. Okay. 15 minutes.

(15 minute break)

(Putnam resumes cross examination)

Q. All right. Mr. Gongaware, we were talking about time in the '70's, I guess around 1977, And it was the time of Mr. Presley's passing. A. Yes, sir. Q. And I think you said you were 27 at the time. Is that correct? A. 20's. Q. In your 20's?

A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And let me ask you a question. So You're in your 20's at that time. Had you ever met Mr. Presley at the time of his passing? A. No. Q. Did you ever -- so you never met Mr. Presley? A. No. Q. Did you ever understand that Mr. Presley had a problem with drugs?

A. Kind of understood that later. There was a period where we didn't work, and the Colonel wasn't allowing Elvis to work for -- for a pretty long time. And I didn't understand at the time why, but I found out later that it was because it was a drug problem and the Colonel just said, "No, you can't work."

Q. And just to make sure we're -- who is the Colonel? A. Elvis's manager. Q. So is it fair to say, then, that you came to understand sometime after Mr. Presley's passing that He had had a problem with drugs? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever come to understand what drugs those were? A. No. Q. And at the time that you were working on this tour, were you working for Concerts West? A. Yes. Q. So you weren't working for Colonel Parker? A. I was assigned to him. Q. Assigned by Concerts West? A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And I'm not sure if this question will make sense. Was -- was Mr. -- did Mr. Presley have an agreement with Concerts West for the tour?

A. His agreement was with Jerry Weintraub, and Jerry Weintraub used Concerts West to do the shows.

Q. Okay. And who -- better way to ask it, who Was the concert promoter at the time, if you know? A. Tom Hulett. Q. Got it. A. It was Jerry, obviously, but Tom Hulett was The guy at Concerts West who was the primary -primary guy there. Q. So if I understand correctly, then, does that mean that more than one company was promoting the tour at the time? A. Yeah, I guess you could say that. It Was -- it was really Jerry's company, and Concerts West did the work. Q. And you didn't work for Jerry's company, did you? A. No, I worked for Concerts West. Q. And, again, just for the record, that's Jerry Weintraub? A. Yes.

Mr. Putnam: Now, we got into this because we were talking about some of these emails that you were shown, and we just went through one that you were shown yesterday. And I would like to bring back up one that you were shown today. I don't have a copy of this because it was just given this morning. I have the one copy that I was given.

Mr. Panish: That's okay.

Mr. Putnam: It's 9163.

Q. Do you recall being asked about this email This morning, sir? This is the one to -A. Yeah. This screen kind of squeezes it, makes it very difficult to read. Q. If you look -- I don't know this, but since you were given it this morning, it might be in that stack there. A. I have it. Q. So do you remember being asked this morning about this series of emails from a -- between you and a Ms. Linda Cobb? A. Yes. Q. And you indicated that Ms. Cobb was a girlfriend of a friend, is that right? A. Yes.

Q. And here, on the second page, there's an email that she sends to you. And, again, all I'm trying to do is put these into context so that people see the entire thing, so I'm -- I'll just read it, and you tell me if I read it correctly. "Hey, Paul. You've been on my mind so much with the passing of Michael Jackson. I imagined you hustling to put together the memorial. I ran into Bonnie yesterday, and she confirmed you did just that. It was great. I just wanted to say I'm sorry. "He was such a pivotal artist for you, who continued to reward you with loyalty for so many years. I'm assuming there was a personal aspect to your relationship. Many condolences, I'm thinking about you and hoping for the best. Linda," hug, hug, kiss, kiss, right?

A. (nods head) Q. And if you look at the prior page, that's dated July 9th, 2009, correct? A. Yes. Q. So this is a little more than two weeks after Mr. Jackson's passing? A. Right. Q. And it talks about "I imagined you hustling To put together the memorial." Do you have an understanding as to what she meant by that? A. Well, the memorial service at Staples Center. Q. And do you recall when that occurred? A. I don't remember the exact date. Q. Was it sometime prior to July 9th -A. Yes. Q. -- 2009? A. Yeah. Q. And what was the memorial service, sir? A. It was a memorial for Michael. A lot of people spoke, there was some music, I think, and it was televised worldwide. Q. And did you attend the memorial? A. Yes. I worked on it. Q. You worked on it. What does that mean?

A. Pulling -- pulling the elements together necessary to do it. I didn't handle the television side, but I did -- worked on ticketing and that sort of thing, security, all those kinds of things that you do.

Q. And did you charge for that memorial?

A. No. Q. Did you work in conjunction with the -- the Jackson family on that memorial? A. Yes. Q. And was it -- for lack of a better term, was it like a funeral? A. I'm not sure it was like a funeral. It was more like a memorial, people speaking and that sort of thing. Q. And this is something that you worked on after the passing of Mr. Jackson? A. Yes. Q. Why? A. It was the right thing to do.

Q. Now, she sent you this note, and then in response that same day, July 9th, 2009, you say "Thanks, baby. I was working for Elvis when he died, so nothing came at me that I didn't expect. Still, quite a shock. Paul G."

A. Right. Q. What did you mean by that?

A. Well, it's the same thing I talked about earlier about how everything changes at that instant, And -and I -- this time I understood what was happening, I understood that, yeah, a lot of people were out of work. That was a very tragic thing. I knew those people well, and -- and I understood that the estate would be taking over, nothing was going to be the same.

Q And was anything the same after that? A. No.

Q. I'll ask you the same question I asked you about the other email. Did you in any way mean by that response that you expected Michael Jackson to pass at the time of his passing?

A. No.

Q. All right. Moving on from there, sir, The -- we're talking about the time that you were working -- sorry about that -- at a -- something called Concerts West out of Seattle. You said it was about from approximately 1975 to 1985, correct?

A. Right. Q. And did a time come when you left Concerts West in Seattle?

A. I went to LA, I mean, I think it was part Of that time period, somewhere in there, but yes, I went to work in LA For -- Concerts West had an Operation there, and Jerry Weintraub had an operation At that time, he owned a piece of Concerts West.

Q. So you came to work for the same company here in Los Angeles? A. Yes.

Q. And when you indicated that you stopped working for that company around 1985, when you stopped working for that company, did you stop working for them here in Los Angeles?

A. Yes. Q. And did you -- what did you do after you worked for Concerts West?

A. I went to Warren Miller Films, a guy that makes ski movies. Q. Is that related to the concert business? A. Yes, it was. Q. How?

A. Terry Bassett, who was at Concerts West, had purchased a piece of the Warren Miller Films, and he brought me in to -- to run it.

Q. And let me just ask briefly what did you do When you were working for Warren Miller Films?

A. Everything. You know, put together distribution, shot film, edited film, handled the business affairs.

Q. And what type of films was Warren Miller Films making at the time? A. Primarily ski movies. Q. What does that mean? A. He would do an annual feature film about skiing. Q. And if you could describe that briefly, what does that mean?

A. Well, we'd send crews, really, around the World to -- you know, it was like part travel log, part ski -you know, just -- it was about skiing, you know, and every year, he would do a new one. It was a doc -it was a documentary film.

Q. Okay. Did they make one film a Year? A. As a feature film, yes, and then other films that -- some commercial, some -- things like That.

Q. And did -- where was Warren Miller Films based? A. Hermosa Beach. Q. Hermosa Beach? A. Yes. Q. And is that where you worked, sir? A. Yes. Q. And how long did you work with Warren Miller Films? A. Two or three years. Q. And did a time come where you went back into the concert promotion business?

A. Yeah. After Warren Miller, I did some freelance film work, and then in -- I think it was around '92, 1992, I went to work on the Dangerous Tour for Michael Jackson.

Q. And -- so you went to work on the Dangerous Tour around 1992. Had you ever worked with Michael Jackson prior to the Dangerous Tour?

A. No.

Q. So -- and all the other times that you'd worked in any way as a Concert promoter, you'd never Worked for Michael Jackson?

A. No. Q. What about the Jacksons? Had you ever worked with the Jacksons previously? A. I did work with the Jacksons, and I think that was in -- right around 2000. Q. So sometime afterwards?

A. Yeah, it was after. I believe it was, yeah. Q. Are you unsure? A. Yes, I'm unsure timingwise, but not --

Q. So prior to working on the Dangerous Tour In 1992, do you have any memory as you sit here today of ever working with any of the Jacksons before?

A. I believe the -- you know, I don't remember the name of the tour, but I did work on one tour with them.

Q. And, again, just to make sure I understand, And -- but you don't recall ever working with Mr. Michael Jackson before?

A. He was on the tour.

Q. Oh, okay. All right. So -- do you have an understanding as we sit here today as to whether or not that prior work had any -- how is it you came to get the job working on the Michael Jackson Dangerous Tour In 1992?

A. I was hired by Jim Maury, who was Michael's co-manager at the time. Q. And did you know Mr. Jim Maury prior to working with him in 1992 on the Dangerous Tour? A. No, I didn't. Q. And you say "co-manager." Did Mr. Jackson have another manager at the time? A. Yeah, he was also managed by Sandy Gallin. Q. And was it Mr. Maury who asked you to work on the tour?

A. Yes, he's the one who offered me the job. Q. And did Concerts West, the one you worked for in Seattle -- did they have any role in that tour? A. No. Q. And the Concerts West that you later helped establish, was that established at this point? A. No. That was much later. Q. Just so I can use it when I'm going through this, around when was the Concerts West you created -when did that come into being? A. '9 -- like '97 or somewhere in there. Q. All right. I'll keep that in mind. So the Concerts West Seattle didn't work on The Jackson tour, correct? Sorry. The Dangerous Tour? A. No. Q. And your new Concerts West didn't exist yet, correct? A. Right. Q. And what about AEG Live? Did they work on this tour? A. No. That didn't exist, either. Q. So when you came to work on the Dangerous Tour, who were you working for, if you know?

A. I was working for Michael Jackson. I was the tour manager, which meant that I handled the logistics, like travel, for the B party. And that tour had four parties. There was the A Party, the artist Party, which was Michael's group, the B party was the band and administration, C party was the crew, and then there was also a D party, which was documentary.

Q. All right. Let me break that down a little Bit. All right. So you came on and you -- you said your title was tour manager?

A. Yes.

Q. And you said, if I got it correct -- I was trying to write it down quickly. You said you worked for the B party?

A. Yes, I did logistics for the B party. Q. All right. And let me break that down a little bit. Was there a promoter on that show? A. Yes. Q. Who promoted that? A. It was Marcel Avram from Germany. Q. So Marcel Avram promoted the show, and you were hired by Michael's manager -- or co-manager Jim Maury, correct? A. Yes. Q. And your title was tour manager for the B party? A. Yes.

Q. So in the hierarchy which was talked about a couple of weeks ago -- in the hierarchy in the people who work on a tour, where would you fit on this tour hierarchy?

A. At the bottom there, near the bottom. Q. Here? A. Yes. Q. All the way down here? A. Pretty much. Q. Okay. And so you were responsible for logistics and travel for the B party. Was Mr. Jackson part of

the A party? A. Yes. Q. Did you do any logistics for the A party? A. No. Q. Did you do any travel arrangements for the A party? A. No. Q. Did you do any work for the A party at all? A. No. Q. Was all of your work for the B party? A. Yes. Q. Did you do anything except arrange for their travel and logistics? A. That's pretty much it.

Q. The Dangerous Tour. We've learned that several tours have -- some tours have legs on it. Were there various legs to The Dangerous Tour?

A. Yeah, there were several. Q. Several legs? A. Yeah. Q. Were you on each leg of the Dangerous Tour? A. Yes. Q. And was this a Tour that went from -- to different locations, or did it stay in one spot? A. No. It was a worldwide tour.

Q. So when you say you did logistics and travel, are you saying that you would arrange for the Travel

from place to place?

A. Yes.

Q. So you were with the B party, working for the B party. Did you have -- did you meet Mr. Jackson at all during that tour?

A. No. Q. Did you ever see him? A. Obviously saw him in shows, but very rarely would I see him.

Q. Now, you spoke -- and I apologize. I don't -- at this point, I don't remember what day it was -- at some point about meeting Michael Jackson, about the first time you met Michael Jackson. Do you remember being asked about that?

A. Yes. Q. And -- well, let me ask you, when was the first time you met Michael Jackson?

A. I'm not sure of the date, but it was -- I was at Colonel Parker's apartment in Las Vegas, and Kenny Wynn, who is Steve Wynn's brother, was with Michael, and called the Colonel and said, "Michael Jackson wants to meet you." And I was there at the time of the call. And I said, "Well, I'd better go." And the Colonel said, "No, no. Stay." And he took a couple of pictures of Michael from all of his pictures and made sure they were up front, and he -- And Michael came over and had a, you know, pleasant conversation. Q. Now, let me just make sure I understand. When some -- when Kenny Wynn called and said that,

"Michael Jackson wants to meet you," did he mean that he wanted to meet you, Paul Gongaware?

A. No. Q. What did he mean? A. He wanted to meet Colonel Parker. Q. Okay. Now did that occur before or after you worked on the Dangerous Tour? A. Before. Q. Before. Did you ever go up to Michael Jackson at any time during the Dangerous Tour and say, "Hey, We've met before"? A. No. Q. Did you ever explain to anyone there that you'd actually met him before with Colonel Parker? A. I don't think so. I don't recall. Q. And if I just asked this, I apologize. You Were on each leg of the tour, correct? A. Yes. Q. Now, I want to ask you just a little bit about the third leg of the tour, if I may. Do you remember where the third leg of the tour went, by chance? A. It started in Bangkok. Q. And do you remember where it ended? A. It ended in Mexico City. Q. And do you remember where it traveled in between?

A. I think Singapore, Taipei, several shows in Japan. I'm not sure exactly where we went after that, but it did get into South America, too, Buenos Aires And Sao Paulo, Santiago, and up to Mexico City.

Q. Did it ever go to North America?

A. As Mr. Panish pointed out, yes, Mexico.

Q. Oh. Thank you. I actually didn't remember that, but yes. All right. Now, when you were being asked questions about that, do you remember being asked if there were any doctors on that tour?

A. Yes. Q. And were there any doctors on that tour, Sir? A. Yes, two. Q. Now, one of them was named Dr. Forecast, correct? A. Yes, that was Michael's physician. Q. What do you mean by -A. That he worked strictly with Michael Jackson. Q. And how do you know that? A. I don't know how I knew it, but that was the case. Q. Well, did you ever talk to him? A. Sure. Q. So you met Dr. Forecast on the tour? A. Yes, uh-huh. Q. Did he ever discuss with you in any way What his treatment was with Mr. Jackson? A. No. Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether -- sorry -- whether Dr. Forecast treated anybody else on the tour? A. I don't think he did. That's why Dr. Finkelstein was out there. Q. Do you have any understanding as to why Dr. Forecast was on the tour treating Mr. Jackson? A. No.

Q. What party was Dr. Forecast in, if you remember? A. He was -- he would have been in A party. Q. And you said the other doctor was the one that you know, Stewart Finkelstein, correct? A. Yes. Q. And you called him the tour doctor. What do you mean by that? A. Dr. Finkelstein? Q. Uh-huh.

A. He was -- we were going to just some strange -- I wouldn't call it strange, just different locations where we didn't really know about quality of Medical care, and so he was out there just to make sure everyone was taken care of.

Q. Now, was he in the A party? A. No, he was in B party.

Q. B party. And I believe you said this, but let me ask, did you have an understanding at the time as to what type of doctor Dr. Finkelstein was?

A. Sure. He was a general practitioner. Q. You also mentioned that he was your doctor, personal doctor, is that correct? A. Yes, he was. Q. And in that capacity, what kind of doctor was he for you? A. Just a general practitioner.

Q. And if you were asked this already, I apologize. I don't remember. Did you have an understanding at

the time as to what type of doctor Dr. Forecast was?

A. No, I didn't know. Q. Okay. Did you know at the time? A. No, I don't think so.

Q. Did you have an understanding as to whether or not Dr. Finkelstein was -- had come on the tour to treat Michael Jackson?

A. That wasn't the reason he was hired. Q. Okay. What was your understanding as to Why he was hired? A. To take care of the B, C and D parties. Q. Did you -- did you ever see Dr. Finkelstein treat Michael Jackson? A. Never saw him do that, no. Q. Did you ever see Dr. Forecast treat Michael Jackson? A. No. Q. Have you ever seen any doctor treat Michael Jackson? A. No.

Q. Now, did -- during the time of the tour, the Dangerous Tour, can you recall Dr. Finkelstein ever mentioning to you that he treated Michael Jackson?

A. There were two times that he told me he did. Q. Okay. Let's ask about the first. What's the first time?

A. Well, the first one was in Bangkok. We went in there -- Michael hadn't rehearsed at all, and we went in there, and he -- it was like 100 degrees Heat and 100 percent humidity, and he -- he did the Show, he nailed it. And then after that, we were supposed to do -- take like a day off and do a second show in Bangkok before we moved on, and we couldn't do the second show. Michael was -- he wasn't able to do it. Not -- not right away, not as scheduled.

Q. And that didn't answer my question, so I'm curious. My question was whether you had any understanding as to whether Dr. Finkelstein ever treated Mr. Jackson -- yeah, Mr. Jackson.

A. That -- I think that's part of it. So when it -- when the show was like postponed, we just said -- I guess the management said we're not going to be able to do the second show, we're moving on, because I think the next show was in like Taipei, something like that. Maybe it was Singapore. But it was another country. And I didn't understand why, you know, it was being cancelled, but the -- but the King of Thailand said, "You're not leaving until you play that second show because that's when my friends are coming," So he put like soldiers on the doors of the hotel to make sure we weren't leaving. So at that point, you know --

Q. I'm going to have to ask it again. I apologize. Does Dr. Finkelstein come into this? A. Yes, doctor -- sorry. Q. It's all right.

A. I'll get to it, I guess. Dr. Forecast wasn't there then, he hadn't arrived yet, so Dr. Finkelstein was pressed into service to treat Michael Jackson.

Q. All right. And so in Bangkok, you understood that Dr. Finkelstein, in some measure, treated Michael Jackson?

A. Yes. Q. All right. Did he tell you the specifics of what he did?

Mr. Panish: That would be calling for hearsay.

Judge: Sustained.

Mr. Putnam: All right.

Q. Did you have an understanding as to what his treatment was?

Mr. Panish: It would call for hearsay.

Judge: It probably will. Sustained.

Q. So this is the first time we're talking about, correct? A. Yes. Q. Did you have an understanding as to any other time that Dr. Finkelstein treated, in any measure, Mr. Jackson? A. Yeah, there was one other time he told me that he did. Q. And when was that?

Mr. Panish: Same thing, your honor.

Q. When was that?

Mr. Panish: Same thing because it calls for hearsay of this witness because he just said he spoke to the physician about the treatment.

Judge: You might want to ask him other than having spoken to him, something like that.

Mr. Putnam: Well, I'm asking for timing, I'm not asking what was said.

Judge: I understand, but if it's based on what he said, it's hearsay. But if he can tell you other than what he was told, then he can testify.

Q. Did you have an understanding that later Dr. Finkelstein treated Mr. Jackson? A. There was one other time he told me, yes.

Mr. Panish: Same -- it's -- you know what my objection is. That's -- there's no foundation other than a discussion with a physician.

Judge: It sounds like that, it has no foundation other than the conversation. If he has some other foundation other than the conversation, he can testify.

Mr. Putnam: I can fix this.

Judge: Okay.

Mr. Putnam: Let me ask you this, which they told Me.

Q. Did you ever hear any details -- I'm not asking what they were, I'm asking did you ever hear any details about that -- those treatments? A. No.

Q. Let's talk about your deposition a little bit. Okay? So we talked this morning about -- I guess It was before the break, about your having a deposition taken in this case, correct?

A. Yes. Q. And that was December 20th, just before Christmas 2012? A. Yes. Q. And at some point after that, you reviewed the transcript, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember how long your deposition transcript was? A. A couple hundred pages. Q. And did you make any changes to your testimony? A. A few, yes.

Mr. Putnam: I'd like to show you a copy of a letter where that was corrected. That's trial exhibit 13396. You were shown this yesterday.

Mr. Panish: I think it has another number. If you want to use it, too, but -- I think it's 88 --

Mr. Putnam: I'd actually like to show the entire document.

Mr. Panish: Well, the whole thing is in evidence, so --

Mr. Putnam: You didn't use the whole thing.

Judge: You can use duplicates. That's Fine.

Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.

Q. Do you recall this, sir? A. It squeezes it, so -- oh, I've got it --

Mr. Putnam: May I approach, your honor?

Judge: Yes.

Mr. Putnam: Here you go.

Q. Do you remember seeing this document yesterday, shown to you by Mr. Panish? A. Yes. Q. And were you given a hard copy of this previously, sir? A. I think I was. Q. Okay. And do you notice that there's -- on the third page, do you see your signature on the third

page? A. Yes. Q. Do you recall that being shown previously? A. No, I don't recall. Q. So let me go through it with you, if I may, for a second, sir. Okay. On this first page, there seems to be a list of changes. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Can you count for me how many changes were made in your deposition? A. Seven. Q. So there were seven changes in the entirety of the deposition? A. Yes. Q. And how many pages did you say were in your deposition? A. A couple hundred. Q. And did these result from after you read your deposition? A. Yes. Q. Did you decide on these changes, or did your attorneys decide on these changes, sir? A. I did. Q. And why did you make changes to your deposition, sir? A. Just to correct it. Q. Since you made changes, does that mean you weren't telling the truth during your deposition, sir? A. No. Q. So why did you make changes? A. When I reviewed it, some things stood out to me. Q. And let me ask you a question. Do you remember being asked yesterday who signed this? -A. Yes.

Q. -- and made changes? Do you remember? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember being asked to look at the second page? Do you remember that, and the second page going up on the screen? A. Yes. Q. And is that what you saw up on the screen, my signature? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember then saying, sir, "but It says a copy of Mr. Gongaware's signature page is enclosed"? A. Do I remember what? Q. Do you remember saying that it said "a copy Of Mr. Gongaware's signature page is enclosed"? A. I don't know if I said that or not. Q. Okay. Let me ask you, what does that say, sir? A. It says "a copy of Mr. Gongaware's signature page is enclosed." Q. Okay. And was that signature page shown here in court yesterday? A. My signature page, no. Q. Why don't we go to that. Why don't we go to the next page. And, Pam, could you show it, please? Do you see this, sir? A. Yes.

Q. If I may read it, tell me how I do. "I, Paul Gongaware, do hereby declare under penalty of perjury that I have read the foregoing transcript, that I have made any corrections as appear noted, in ink, initialized by me or attached hereto, that my testimony as contained herein as corrected is true and correct. Executed this 25th day of January, 2013, at Los Angeles, California," with a signature of Paul Gongaware. Did I do okay reading that?

A. Except for -Q. What did I do? A. You said "initialized," I think, and it's "initialed." Q. Oh. Thank you. Other than that, did I do okay? A. You did great.

Q. Thank you, sir. So let me ask you a question about this third page. So do you remember being asked if you had done as you were told, which is to write in ink what your changes were? Do you remember being asked that question?

A. I don't remember that specifically.

Q. Okay. Well, do you see here -- let me ask you this. Do you see here that you're allowed to make changes by attaching? Do you see that?

A. Yes. Q. Is that, in fact, what you did, sir? A. I did. Q. And do those represent your changes? A. Yes.

Q. Thank you, sir. Now, let me ask you one other thing about this, if I can. Do you also remember being asked the following question by Mr. Panish, where he asked you why you believed there were any time limits on your ability to make changes?

A. I remember the question, yes. Q. And do you remember him representing to you that there is no time limits on making changes? A. I think that's what he said, yes.

Q. Do you remember being told by the attorneys in this case that you had 30 days to make any changes?

A. I think that's where I had the impression that there were -- was a time limit, because I know there was some time I had to get this done.

Q. In fact, within a month of your deposition, did you read your deposition, make several changes, and then sign that you had done the same?

A. Yes.

Mr. Putnam: Thank you, sir. All right. I'm Going to move back to where we were. We were talking about Mr. Finkelstein.

Judge: Just so you're aware, there's a few More minutes before we're going to adjourn for today.

Mr. Putnam: Sorry, your honor. Let me quickly try to finish this part. Two minutes, is that it?

Judge: Yes.

Mr. Putnam: All right.

Q. We were talking about Mr. Finkelstein during the Dangerous Tour, correct, sir? A. Yes. Q. All right. During the Dangerous Tour, not after, during it, did you ever come to have an understanding that Mr. Jackson had a problem with drugs? A. No. Q. Did you, during the Dangerous Tour, ever come to have an understanding that Mr. Jackson had a problem with painkillers? A. No. Q. Was the Dangerous Tour cut short, sir? A. Yes. Q. And where was it cut short? A. Mexico city. Q. And did you have an understanding as to why it was cut short? A. After it -- afterward, Michael made a statement that he had a problem.

Mr. Putnam: I'd like to play for you what has already been done, which is exhibit 12929, and ask you If this is the announcement you're talking about.

Mr. Panish: Did he see this?

Mr. Putnam: I can show it again.

Mr. Panish: To this witness?

Mr. Putnam: No.

Mr. Panish: I'm asking for the foundation for this witness.

Mr. Putnam: He said he heard it.

Judge: You guys are moving a little too fast. What exhibit are we talking about?

Mr. Putnam: Your honor, it's 12929.

Judge: Which is known as what? It's a video clip, or --

Mr. Putnam: It's the audio and the transcript of the announcement that he said he heard sometime afterwards of the announcement.

Mr. Panish: that's not what he testified to, But --

Judge: Okay. So is there an objection?

Mr. Panish: Yes, foundation for this witness.

Q. Again, did you indicate, sir -- did you come to have an understanding as to why the Dangerous tour was cut short? A. Yes.

Q. And what was that understanding based on? A. The announcement that Michael made. Q. And where did you hear that announcement? A. It was in the media, it was public. Q. So it wasn't something he said to you personally? A. No. Q. But it was something you heard? A. Yes.

Mr. Putnam: Any objection, sir? No?

Mr. Boyle: No objection.

Mr. Putnam: All right. Play it please.

(Michaels November 1993 audio recording is played)

Q. Prior to hearing this announcement, did you have any understanding that Mr. Michael Jackson had a problem with painkillers? A. No. Q. Did you have any understanding that Mr. Jackson, prior to hearing this announcement, had any problem with drugs? A. No. Q. Did you have any understanding prior to hearing this announcement that Mr. Michael Jackson, in 1993, was stopping the Dangerous Tour so that he could go into rehab?

A. No. Q. And do you have an understanding as you sit here today as to whether Mr. Michael Jackson went into rehab in 1993 at the conclusion of the Dangerous Tour? A. I believe he did. Q. And do you have any understanding as to whether Michael Jackson's rehab was successful or not? A. I believe it was.

Mr. Putnam: No more questions today, your honor.

(court adjourned for the day)