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9-11Commission Hearing 2003-12-08

9-11Commission Hearing 2003-12-08

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Published by: jrod on Apr 28, 2009
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05/11/2014

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HEARING OF THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THEUNITED STATES
SUBJECT: SIXTH PUBLIC HEARINGCHAIRED BY: THOMAS H. KEAN
 WITNESSES PANEL I: INTELLIGENCE COLLECTIONS WITHIN THE UNITEDSTATES
;LARRY D. THOMPSON, SENIOR FELLOW, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, ANDFORMER DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES;STEPHEN J. SCHULHOFER, PROFESSOR OF LAW, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY;
PANEL II: PROTECTING PRIVACY, PREVENTING TERRORISM 
;JUDITH A. MILLER, PARTNER, WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY, AND FORMERGENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE;STEWARD A. BAKER, PARTNER, STEPTOE & JOHNSON, AND FORMER GENERALCOUNSEL, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY;MARC ROTENBERG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ELECTRONIC PRIVACYINFORMATION CENTER;
PANEL III: PREVENTIVE DETENTION: USE OF IMMIGRATION LAWS ANDENEMY COMBATANT DESIGNATIONS TO COMBAT TERRORISM 
;JAN TING, PROFESSOR OF LAW, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY BEASLEY SCHOOL OFLAW, AND FORMER ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES, ASYLUM ANDPAROLE, IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE;KHALED MEDHAT ABOU EL FADL, VISITING PROFESSOR, YALE LAW SCHOOL,AND PROFESSOR, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW IN ISLAMIC LAW, UCLA SCHOOLOF LAW;DAVID MARTIN, WARNER-BOOKER DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OFINTERNATIONAL LAW, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA LAW SCHOOL, AND FORMERGENERAL COUNSEL, IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE;
PANEL IV: GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION AND DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE
;WILLIAM P. BARR, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL,VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS, AND FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITEDSTATES;JOHN J. HAMRE, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CENTER FORSTRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES, AND FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARYOF DEFENSE;JOHN MACGAFFIN, DIRECTOR, AKE LLC, AND FORMER ASSOCIATE DEPUTYDIRECTOR FOR OPERATIONS, CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
 
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 LOCATION: 253 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.TIME: 9:00 A.M. ESTDATE: MONDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2003THOMAS H. KEAN: As Chairman of the National Commission onTerrorist Attacks Upon the United States, I'd like to convene oursixth public hearing. We've taken as the topic of today'shearing, "Security and Liberty." I guess its very title suggeststhe myriad of issues we'll be examining today. In one or morerespects, all deal with civil liberties, how they can bepreserved while our nation seeks to enhance the security of itspeople in the aftermath of the most heinous attacks ever launchedagainst our country by a band of international terrorists.In some respects, a debate that continues to surround thePATRIOT Act, use of immigration laws and other measures is notterribly surprising. Historians that are either with us in theaudience today or watching us on television would remind us thatquestions not unlike those we'll be hearing today have come upeach time our nation has gone to war. Legal scholars can cite animpressive stack of case law that grew out of them. They canalso cite some obvious infractions of civil liberties, thesuspension of habeas corpus, the interment of Japanese citizens.These are things our society as a whole grew to regret.At the same time, as my colleague Lee Hamilton, Vice Chair,has reminded us, the unprecedented nature of the attacks onSeptember 11th produced a strong response. We want to know moreabout that response, how well current policies are working, andwhat steps are needed to protect our cherished liberties as wellas to protect our nation. We've assembled four distinguishedpanels to help us do that.The focus of the first will be intelligence collectionwithin the United States. The theme of the second panel will beprivacy protection and how this can be achieved whilediscouraging and preventing terrorism. These need not beincompatible goals. Our commissioners are particularly eager tohear what our guests have to say as to how we as a nation canachieve both goals simultaneously.Our third panel will examine what is going under the headingof preventive detention. In particular, witnesses will assesshow immigration laws and enemy combatant designations have beenused in this war against terrorism. In addition to makingrecommendations on all of these important issues, the Commissionhas been charged to consider whether the domestic intelligencefunction should remain within the FBI. As we proceed with ourinvestigation, we'll be asking ourselves whether the FBI should
 
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perform this role or whether a new entity should be establishedto perform collection, analysis and dissemination of intelligencewithin the United States, primarily to prevent, curtail andcombat terrorism.As you know, opinions differ widely on this. In our recenthearing, we heard some of these different views from threeuniversally acknowledged experts in this field and we'll do soagain today with our final panel.Before we begin, just to do a small amount of housekeeping,we are operating today under a very, very tight schedule. We'llbe hearing from a dozen witnesses. In order to be fair to eachof them, I'm going to give appropriate attention to the concernsthey raise and allow for free-flowing discussion. I ask each ofour panelists to abide by the five minute timeframe that we'veimposed. I request also that they reserve additional commentsthey care to make hopefully for the question period. They mayalso submit additional materials to the record, which we'll holdopen for an additional 10 days.In exchange for our panelists' advance cooperation, I hopewe can ask our commissioners to keep our questions short and tothe point and to keep their eyes on the clock as well. Upon theconclusion of today's hearing, Congressman Hamilton and I will beavailable, as always, for questions.We will now hear from our first panel, offering their viewson intelligence collection within the United States, LarryThompson, senior follow, the Brookings Institute, and formerdeputy attorney general of the United States, and Steven J.Schulhofer, professor of law, New York University. If we couldbegin with Mr. Thompson.LARRY D. THOMPSON: Thank you. Good morning. Thank you forasking me to appear before the Commission this morning. As theChairman has said, I'll try to abide by the five minutelimitation. I have prepared written testimony but this morningwhat I would like to do is briefly highlight three points that Imade in my written testimony and then expand a bit with respectto one of the points.The subject of this morning's panel is intelligencecollection. Intelligence collection is, however, as I point outin my written testimony, only the first step that we need to beconcerned about in combating terrorism. Once you collectinformation, Mr. Chairman, you need to share it and disseminateit. Those are very important steps that we need to take. Now,even before the horrific events of September 11, I witnessedfirst hand, as the deputy attorney general, some of the problemsthat we in the department had with sharing information, even inthe department, sharing information with intelligence officialson one hand of the FBI and with our prosecutors on the other hand

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