Depositions of Defense and State Witnesses The motions have begun and witnesses have been disclosed.

The next thing to do is depose the witnesses. This step is seeking out, under oath, what the witnesses know and will testify to at the actual trial. It is also a filter as to whom will be called, who has actual facts to relay to the jury. The depositions stated here are ones dealing with those personally connected to both Felix and Frank. I will delve a little into them, for they can become lengthy and repetitive. There were other depositions taken of family members, and friends or acquaintances of Frank Garcia, but they had no relevant information to give to the jury about the crime. There were no friends of Felixs deposed or interviewed. Why? In all my talks with Felix, I never heard from him, if he had a friend he bummed around with. Perhaps there were school friends at school, I know of one fellow student who knew Felixs hearing limitations and tutored him after classes. And definitely Michelle, the mother of his baby daughter, was a girlfriend at one time. Possibly other girlfriends, none he ever talked about, though. What this is telling us, his progressive deafness was becoming a great obstacle in communicating with people, relating with people. Instead he was avoiding people, didnt feel he belonged. But the worst part in this, he thought he was normal. On December 11, 1981 the depositions began. From 10:34 a.m. to 11:14 a.m., Terry Stubbs, as a State witness, was deposed by the Defense. It is vice-versa when it is a Defense witness, although all attorneys can ask questions. Present were Felixs attorney Raul Palomino, co-defendant Frank Garcias attorney Public Defender Brian Donerly. and Assistant State Attorney (ASA) Nick Sinardi, who represented the State witnesses. I will highlight certain questions and answers pertaining directly to Felix and where I have emphasized in italics is not in the original transcript. Mr. Palomino began asking:

Q. How did you happen to meet Felix?

A. I met Felix through Frank. Q. In August, did you ever have some type of conversation with Felix or with Frank about this particular incident? A. Yes, sir. Q. Tell me what that was. A. Okay. Well, I didnt talk to Felix, I talked to Frank. Frank was over at A.J.s. [Alexander Joseph Lynch, her boyfriend.] Q. Tell me what happened. A. I walked in, they were already talking about it, and I wanted to know what they were talking about, too. Q. When you say they were already talking about it, what were they saying? A. I dont - they were just talking about what they - Frank was telling what they had done the night before, or - yeah, the night before, what they had done, what Frank and Felix had done. Q. He said what Frank and Felix had done? A. Yes. Okay. Frank told - was talking to A.J. I walked in, and I cant put an exact order, but they were just - Frank was telling me, you know, if I - Id better not say nothing to anybody, dont let it get past me or A.J., and I said all right. They told me they were at a motel and they were in this room with this guy named Joseph

and Felix shot him in the head and Frank had a slice thing and sliced his neckthey got some gold and stuff, and when I was talking to Frank at that time Frank has a necklace with a coin in the middle that he was showing me, some thick old necklace he got from JoJo [another name the victim went by]. Q. Did he [A.J.] ever threaten you not to say anything because he could get in trouble? A. No, no. Frank told me that I better not say nothing, because if I said something that Felix hisself would shoot me or get rid of me, you know. Q. Frankie told you that? A. That Felix would. Felix was not there at the time Frankie told me. Q. Have you ever been present when Felix made the statement that he shot this JoJo? A. No.Felix never said nothing about it. You know, I guess Felix didnt want nobody to know it. Q. Have you talked to anybody that stated that Felix had told them that he shot this JoJo? A. The only people Ive talked to about it was Julie [Franks girlfriend], and thats all. Q. What did Julie tell you? A. That Frank slashed him with aknife or whatever, on his neckand Felix shot him in the head. Q. All right. Did Julie tell you where she found this out or how she found that? A. Yes, because when Frank - Frank was saying about all these chains they had gottenAnd Frank was telling Julie earlier something about he needs - she need to take the gold and hide it or somethingbecause Julie had one of the chains on and Frank said, Dont wear it. All youre doing is showing it off and somebodys gonna recognize it. Q. Did Felix ever say anything? A. No, not that I remember, no. Q. Do you remember Felix ever saying anything from the day of this incident to the day he was arrested, whenever you saw him, in your presence, did he say anything about this incident? A. I cant remember if Felix said anything or not. Q. Did Felix ever tell anybody in front of you, I shot that guy? A. No, not that I remember, no. Q. Did Felix ever tell anybody in front of you, Look at this gold chain that I have? A. No, but Frank did. Q. Has Felix ever threatened you? A. No. Q. Has he ever threatened anybody in your presence? A. Not that I remember, no. Q. And all you know is what Frankie said? A. Yes, Frank.

Q. And Felix was the one what shot him? A. Felix shot him. Q. But Frankie was the one that had the gold chain with the coin? A. Yes. Q. And Julie, Frankies girlfriend, was the one that had the chain that Frankie warned her about showing? A. Yes, sir. Q. You didnt see any gold chains on Felix? A. No, sir, not that I remember. Q. And Julie Morris statement that she said to you about this incident and what happened, was that based on what Frankie told her? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did A.J. ever tell you that JoJo had come around to his house? A. Yeshe told me after the incidentI said How do you know JoJo from? And he said Well, when he andFrank were at Ki-Kis. Q. How did he tell you that he introduced Frankie to JoJo? A. No, he said Frankie introduced him to JoJo. Q. Frankie introduced him? A. Thats what he told me, yes. A.J. told me that Frankie introduced A.J. To JoJo at the Ki-Ki Bar. Q. Years ago? A year ago? Three weeks before? A month before? A. I guess it was within a year because he didnt say no two years. From 11:18.am. to 11:51 a.m., Julie Morris [Franks girlfriend], a State witness, deposition started off with Attorney Palomino asking the questions: Q. All right. How did you happen to find out about this murder? A. Frank had told me. Q. What did Frankie tell you? A. He just - that they killed this man. Q. Well, did they say how many times they stabbed him? A. No, nothing about nobody being stabbed, that Felix shot him. Q. Just that Felix shot him? Did Frankie ever tell you anything about cutting the mans throat He never told you that? A. Nothing about nobodys throat being slit. Q. Okay. What did Felix say at this point? A. Felix didnt talk to me. I dont think he liked me very much. Q. What did he [Frank] tell you about the goldthe chains or whatever else they had? A. He said - I guess he said he got it from Ray. Q. He said he got it from Ray? A. Yeah, Ray and Felix, mostly.

Q. Well, did he [Frank] tell you We shot this guy or They shot this guy or I shot this guy? A. It was more in the lines of We shot him and Felix did it, but I wasnt there. So, that doesnt make any sense, either. Q. Did Frankie ever give you any jewelry? A. Yesan Italian Horn. Q. Did you tell them [the officers who questioned her at time of the arrest of Frank and Felix] what Frankie told you about how he got it? A. It was some bullshit about 22nd Street. Q. Okay. Tell me about that bullshit. A. When this whole thing started, thats what everybody everybody out there said, they got it off 22nd Street. Q. Everybody out there? I dont know who everybody out there is. A.. A.J., me, Tina and Ray. [Where is Felix? Remember in his interrogation the officer reported Felix confessed the jewelry was gotten off 22nd Street.] Q. Did Felix at anytime in front of you make a statement or tell anybody that he shot this man? A. No. Q. Did you tell Terry Stubbs anything about anybody slitting anybodys throat? A. No. [Contradicts what Terry said in her deposition.] Q. [Attorney Sinardi] Has Frankie ever told you what to say about this case? A. Im sure a few things hes told me what to say, but I cant really remember. Q. So, he wanted you to say that this jewelry had come form 22nd Street? A. Yeah. Q. You talked to him [Felix]? Did he tell you what to say? A. No. Q. Did he [Felix] threaten you? Did he tell you what not to say? A. No. He just said, how you doing and that was about it. It isnt the norm but some times witnesses are brought back later for some more deposition testimony when the attorneys feel the witnesses still have more information to give or have not revealed. Julie was such a witness. This took place January 13, 1982, 3:10 3:50 p.m. ASA Sinardi is replaced with ASA Mark Ober who starts off this session: Q. How long have you been his [Frank] girlfriend. A. Couple of months. Q. Do you have any information from Felix Garcia that either he or Frank was involved in this? A. No. Q. I asked you whether or not Frankie had told you not to tell the truth and you indicated he told everyone not to tell the truth. Do you remember telling me that?

A. Well, if you are sitting in jail wouldnt you say something like that to you? Q. Im asking did he tell you not to tell the truth about what you know about this case? Yes or no? A. Not really. Q. [Mr. Donerly] Julie, did you tell Detective Nelms that Frankie had said to you that he did it? A. He said they did it. Q. [Mr. Ober] Who is they? A. I guess Felix and them, I guess. Q. [Mr. Palomino] Then a few days later when did he when did he [Frank] get around to the part about how he got it in the killing? A. Im pretty sure when we read the paper or something because he got pretty upset when he saw it and we had to go back over to Tina and Rays and they told me they killed this man for it. Q. Did Felix ever tell you that they killed the guy? A. No. Q. And youre under oath now and at any point did Felix ever tell you that he did it? A. No. Q. At any point did Frankie ever tell you that Felix shot this guy? A. I wouldnt be able to say Felix because he [Frank] always said they. Q. At one point when you first found out about they you were right there at Ray and Tinas house? A. Im pretty sure we were standing there. Q. With Frankie? A. Yeah. Q. Youre not sure if Felix was there or not? A. Im not sure. [This is important because the actual perpetrators revealed by Frank in 1989 were Tina, Ray and himself.] December 11, 1981, from 1:16 p.m. to 2:13 p.m., A.J. Lynch, a State witness, deposition started off with Attorney Donerly asking the questions: Q. A.J., how long have you known Frank Garcia? A. Six years. Q How about Felix, how long have you known Felix? A. Three years. Q. How well do you know Felix? A. Not very well. Q. How about Joseph Tramontana? A. Met him one time about a year and half ago. Q. Where did you meet him? A. At a bar.Q. Q. Was Frank there? A. Yes. Q. Felix?

A. No. Q. How frequently did you see Frank? A. Everyday. Q. When was the first time that Frankie mentioned JoJo to you? A. After he had did what he didFrank told me that they had did it. Q. Was Frank alone by this time? A. Yes. Q. What did he tell you? A. He said that his brother had shot him and that he had cut the guy. Q. He told you it was JoJo? A. Uh-huh. Q. Felix is not around when Frank tells you this? A. No, he wasnt. Q. Okay. Now, there was a later time, I take it, at your place where there was a discussion, is that right? A. Uh-huh. Q. Is that the next time you talked this over with Frank? A. Yes. It was my sister, me, and Terry was there. Q. How about Felix? A. No, he wasnt. Q. What did Frank say this time? A. Just says that they had robbed the guy and shot him. Q. [Mr. Palomino] The first time that Frankie told you that he had killed this guy, or they had killed this guy, Felix was not present? A. Felix was not there, no, he wasnt. Q. [Mr. Sinardi] And youre indicating that Frankie told you that while Felix was notnot present when this statement was made? A. Because he didnt want his brother hear him tell me .Q. [By Palomino] He told you that he didnt want his brother to hear him tell you? A. He didnt want his brother to know. Q. Did he tell you why? A. His brother would kill me, man, because his brother - I dont know - I guess thats the reason. Q. Do you know whether Frankie ever said that he introduced Felix to JoJo? A. No. Q. Do you know of your own personal knowledge whether Felix even knew JoJo? A. No. Q. I believe you stated earlier that Felix was little crazy. You told me he was little crazy at times. A. He tries to act crazy. Hes a little bit. [Natural reaction to someone different, Felix could not appear normal all the time while progressing in his deafness.]

Next deposed is Tina Garcia Stanley from 2:16 p.m 3:31 p.m., starting with Mr. Donerly asking the questions: Q. Lets go back to the evening of August 3rd. First had you ever heard your brother, either Frank or Felix mention anything about gold jewelry, about JoJo Tramontanaor anything else that has any connection to this case Im saying before August 3rd, before the night of the murder.? A. They just said that they was gonna go and rob somebody, but they didnt say who or what yetTheys been talking about it for a day or so, that they wanted to go do something because they didnt have any money. Q. On the night of August the 3rd, why dont you tell me what happened then. Thats the night that JoJo died. A. My brothers asked if they could borrow the carthey said they were going to the moviesThey left. They came back , I guess, a couple hours laterAnd when they came in the house they had all this jewelryThey said at first that they had just broke into somebodys house and took it. Q. Which one of them said that, do you remember? A. They both did. Q. What time of the night is this? A. Its about 10:30 or 11:00, something like that. Q. Well, on that evening did they ever say anything about blowing somebody away or hurting somebody or killing somebody? A. Yes, but I didnt really pay that much attention to them. Q. Who said what, do you remember? A. Felix stood there and he said he had to shoot somebody to get the goldand Frankie just really agreed with him. Q. Did Frankie say that he was there or that he participated? A. Yes. Q. What did Frank say that indicated that he participated or that he was there? A. All he did - all he said was that he helped Felix get this gold.. Q. Did either of them say anything else that night? A. They said that they had to get rid of the briefcase and they took it to the backyard and they burned it, and they said that they were gonna go out partying. Q. How about Ray? A. Ray just went back there to see what they were doing. Q. About what time is this now? A. I dont know, I guess about 12:00. Q. Tell me, please, and tell me who said what, if you can remember? A. Okay. Frankie said that A.J. had introduced him to this man and this man was supposed to have been gay or something, I dont know, and A.J.

was supposed to be this mans lover. And Frankie said that when he met the man he had a bunch of gold on, you know, and that the man liked him and that he wanted Frankie to go out with him. So Frankie said that he had called him and set up a meeting with him. Felix was supposed to have been downstairs in the coffee shop or something waiting , you know. Frankie was already in this mans room and Frankie said that he had told the man something about Felix was working or something and he had to come and get the car, you know. And so, Felix called the mans room from the coffee shop and he went upstairs after he called the room and Frankie said something to the man about Felix picking up the keys to the car or something, you know. When the man let Felix in, Felix said that the man was telling him something about where he was gonna take Frankie or he was gonna take Frankie out or something like that. And Felix said that thats when he told the man he wasnt gonna take Frankie anywhere, and he said he pulled a gun out on him and took him into the bedroom. Q. Okay. I must admit I havent heard this one from any sourceIs Frank telling you this or Felix telling you part of it? How is this? A. Theyre both telling me that. Q. Okay. Why dont we continue from here. A. Felix just said that he took the man in the room and he shot him in the head and he said that - Frankie said that he cut his throat with something. Q. Did they give you anymore information that Felix takes him into the room and shoots him and then Frank cuts his throat? A. No. That was all he really told me. He just said that he had taken him into the room. Q. Felix told you that? A. Uh huh. Q. Frank said that he cut his throat? Did he give you anymore detail on that? A. No, thats all he said. Q. Anybody ever tell you that this guys throat was never cut according to the A. No. I didnt want to hear any more about it.