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6
FALL 2004
3 GURUS, 48 QUESTIONS
 MATCHING INTERVIEWS WITH
SRI T.K.V. DESIKACHAR, SRI B.K.S. IYENGAR & SRI K. PATTABHI JOIS
 Interviews by
R. ALEXANDER MEDIN
 Edited by
DEIRDRE SUMMERBELL
THE HISTORY OF YOGA 
1
 W  YOUR EORY OUE ORN OF YO?
T.K.V. Desikachar:
Yoga is from theVedas.
K. Pattabhi Jois:
We cannot know forsure the original nature of yoga, butaccording to what tradition tells us,Shiva first taught it to Parvati, thenParvati taught it to Shannmuka andShannmuka taught it to Narada. Andthe first yoga found before the YogaSutras of Patanjali was when Adinathaincarnated in this world to provide yogaas a means to liberating man from the world of suffering. Also yoga is found inthe
shastras 
[scriptures], in the BhagavadGita, and in different Upanishads.
 AN O   REFLEE NE RURL,  ELL  N ELN, RON?Desikachar:
ere are many referencesin the Vedas concerning what yoga is.It is referred to not only as
 pratyahara
[sensory withdrawal], but, in someSanskrit passages, it is understood to bethe discipline of the senses of the mind.In the Upanishads, yoga is seen as thediscipline of controlling the mind, andPatanjali also focuses on the mind, asVedanta focuses on God.
Pattabhi Jois:
In India, tradition isrooted in faith. Without faith, our whole tradition would collapse. Andit is the greatness and wisdom of ourforefathers that guides us on our pathto perfection. To come to realize thedepth of their knowledge and wisdom, we need to gain an experience of thatto which they testify. This can bevery difficult in the times we live in,but to gain this experience, we needto have faith in what they taughtand a willingness to follow theirmethods with consistent dedicationand hard work. It is not easy, butfor every 
sadhaka
[ardent seeker],there is profound spiritual wisdom tobe rediscovered from our tradition.India has a great history of trying tounderstand the human mind and itstheories of 
moksa
[release; liberation of soul from further transmigration] aresomething other religious traditionscannot ignore. Some living teachersare good representatives of our greatheritage, while others are less concerned with tradition, and do as they please,making up rules and regulations of their own.
HO OE PNL’ LL YO N N RELON O H YO?Desikachar:
Hatha yoga is not in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. e term
Hatha yoga
is in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika of  Yogi Swatmarama. It is also found insome passages of the Upanishads, butas far as the Yoga Sutras are concerned,there is only one word. And that is notmantra yoga, not Raja yoga, not Layayoga, not Jnana yoga, but yoga, plainand simple! All other words come fromKriya yoga, and are for an agitated mindthat cannot practice yoga.
 
 An agitatedmind is not free to perceive yoga. Forthis, one needs mental support orphysical stimuli, which Hatha yogasimply acts to provide by preparing thebody-mind field to be more fit for suchperception.
Pattabhi Jois:
Hatha yoga means theunion of the opposing energies of the body and the channeling of theseenergies into the central pathway. Andthis comes about when the
surya nadi 
[right nostril] and
chandra nadi 
[leftnostril] are controlled, and the vitalenergy of these two channels mergesin the central pathway of the spine.So, when the
 prana
is finally at rest andno longer moved by the various senseorgans, we then realize God inside. atis our Self, our true identity. So, Hathayoga is experiencing God inside.
 WO ERE E ORNOR OFH YO?Desikachar:
We don’t know if Shivacomposed the Vedas or if someoneelse did. In India, a lot of peoplecompose works that are then ascribedto ancient sources, but nobody knowsfor certain who really wrote them. Itis a tendency in India to mythologize
 Dattatreya, Guru of all Gurus
1
ese interviews were originally conducted in the early months of 2004 in Mysore, Pune, and Madras, as part of a master’s thesis. e fullthesis runs to some 55,000 words, a generous portion of which is made up of the interviews, which appear here in abridged and edited form.For clarity’s sake, answers have been grouped together according to questions asked, rather than to their order in the original talks. Additionally,there are a few instances in the thesis when brief quotes from books by the interviewees have been added to their answers to help clarify ideasor to fill in indecipherable gaps on the interview tapes. ese have been retained and footnoted. Not all interviewees, of course, answered eachand every question, preferring occasionally to pass a particular one over. Mr. Medin’s work is currently being expanded into a book.
 
7
FALL 2004
and to ascribe materials to ancientfounders to make them more authentic.Even my father, Krishnamacharya,invented parts of his teaching. I know that he wrote down several passagesin his early life which he changed inhis later life. He also authored workshimself, much like, in ancient times,ancient scholars would do and thennever acknowledge that they had doneso. Divine intervention or not [
laughs 
],these scholars always claimed that texts were by some superhuman being ratherthan themselves. So, naturally, they  would say that Shiva was the composerbecause Shiva is a supernatural being,rather than just an ordinary individual. And, yes, of course, they talked aboutsubtleties and superhuman powers, but we don’t know how they perceived this. We have to rely on textual evidenceand can only assume that there wasan esoteric teaching running parallel with their texts. Subtleties such as the
nadi 
s [nerve pathways] and variousenergy channels are mentioned in theUpanishads and it is evident that thesepeople had an insight into them, but itis not easy for us to understand wherethey derived their knowledge from. LikeShankaracharya, for example, who saidhe learned everything from Gaudapada.But who was Gaudapada? at’s why they say,
 gurubhyo param apnoti 
, whichmeans a person’s clarity should highlighthis teacher, not himself. One shouldnever tell anybody where a mantra wasreceived from. Instead, one should only speak of the guru, never of the mantra.at’s the universal law.
Pattabhi Jois:
I don’t know for certain.I only know what my guru taught me.But many texts mention the
rishi 
sMatsyendranath, Goraknath, Vamana,but before them, there were other
maharishi 
s. Yoga is at least two to threethousand years old, if not older.
 W NUE H YOFROM OER YL FNEEXERE?Desikachar:
According to various texts,
ha” 
means the
surya nadi 
and “
tha” 
 means the
chandra nadi 
. When thesetwo energy channels,
ha
and
tha
, mergetogether in the
sushumna
[spinal nadi],there is a complete understanding of Hatha yoga. Hatha also means power orforce, but whatever the interpretation,I believe that the union of these twomajor
nadi 
s produces a harmonizinginfluence on the body and hence allowsus to experience yoga.
Pattabhi Jois:
[
Laughs 
] Yoga is notphysical—very wrong! Hatha yoga can,of course, be used as external exerciseonly, but that is not its real benefit. Yogacan go very deep and touch the soulof man. When it is performed in theright way, over a long period of time,the nervous system is purified, and sois the mind. As the Bhagavad Gita istelling us.
Yatato hyapi Kaunteya  purshasya vipashcitah indriyani pramathini haranti  prasabham manah Tani sarvani samyamya yukta asita matparah Vase hi yasyendriyani tasya prajna  pratishtita BG 2:60-61
[
Controlling all the senses, the self-controlled one should sit meditating on Me. Verily, his wisdom is steady whose senses are under control. The turbulent senses, O son of Kunti, forcibly lead astray the mind of eventhe struggling wise person.
]The whole purpose of Hatha yoga is topurify and control our senses. It is theultimate science of helping us discover what lies behind the apparent reality of body and mind. But look at the worldtoday! There are so many different ways of doing yoga. Everybody saysthat they are doing it the right way,but what is the right way unless itproduces a certain change in people,unless a certain energy is awakened within them? As Swatmarama is tellingus, in the last verse of the Hatha YogaPradipika:
Yavan naiva pravishati caran maruto madhyamarge Yavad bindur na bhavati drdaprana vata prabandhat |Yavad dhyane sahajasadrsham jaayate nanva tattvam Tavaj jnanam vadati tadidam dambhamithyapralapah ||HYP 4:113 
[
Until the 
prana
enters and flows inthe middle channel and the breathbecomes firm by the control of the movements of 
prana
; and until the mind assumes the form of Brahmawithout any effort in contemplation,up to then, all talk of knowledge and wisdom is merely the nonsensical babblings of a mad man.
]So, we must follow the method that iscorrect and practice it for a long time.
Satu dirgha kala nairantarya satkara sevitodridhabhumih
[A practice over a longperiod of time, consistently, humbly, with the best intention, becomesthe firm foundation for cultivatinga cessation of the fluctuations of themind.] This can take many lifetimes of practice—even 100,000 years!
KRISHNAMACHARYA 
CN YOU EREKRNMRY N REE OR?Desikachar:
One word:
acharya
 [spiritual teacher]. at is enough!
B.K.S. Iyengar:
He was a versatile man,an extraordinary man—not of a normalkind. I revered him. He was the masterof many subjects. It is hard to findpeople nowadays with knowledge likehis. And how men of our low intellectcan speak of a person like him, I don’tknow!
Pattabhi Jois:
A very good man, a strongcharacter. A dangerous man.
 W O YOU NO OFKRNMRY’LNEE NEER?Desikachar:
You can refer to this in thebook covering Krishnamacharya’s lifepublished by our institute.
Iyengar:
As far as I know, his teacher wasRamamohan Brahmachari of Nepal,but we didn’t speak much about hisguru in detail. I knew Krishnamacharyabecause he married my sister in thenineteen-thirties. What he did beforethat, I am not too familiar with. But itis certain that, due to his being a greatSanskrit scholar, he met a lot of ancientscholars in India who introduced him toRamamohan Brahmachari. Accordingto legend, Krishnamacharya studied
 
8
FALL 2004
 Early poster of T. Krishnamacharya and student demonstrating twenty-one asanas.
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