From:
defined ®
15/07/2003 1:16:01 PMSubject:
can they or cant they
post id: 1156Our Foreign Minister has assured us that the North Koreans cannot reach Australia withnuclear missiles.In 1998, the North Koreans launched a three-stage rocket, a Taepo Dong 1, intended to put asmall satellite into orbit. The rocket passed over Japan, with the first stage falling into thePacific beyond Japan. The second stage fell into the Pacific beyond Hawaii. The third(according to the Koreans) propelled the small satellite into orbit, where it broadcast patrioticsongs. The Americans described the launch as a ICBM test intended to alarm the Japanese.They first described it as a single stage missile capable of reaching Japan. Then theyreluctantly admitted that there was a second stage, and that the whole could reach Alaska.They denied that there was a third stage, but then said that it had exploded and thereby failedto insert the satellite into orbit.Despite subsequent US disinformation (including the suppression of photos of the launchfacility, and the closure of Japanese sites which mentioned the satellite launch) intended toprevent the US public from realising that hassling N. Korea could produce some very seriousblowback, the game was given away by George Tenet in his testimony to the Senate ArmsCommittee ( http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/12/us.nkorea/ )Summary: The director of the CIA knows it, the readers of CNN know it, our intellenceagencies know it, i know it, you know it, but Alexander has not been told...From:
Cricket ®
15/07/2003 2:08:40 PMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1196Actually, Downer was right. North Korea can't reach us with NUCLEAR missiles. Its longestrange missile is thought to be able to reach northern Australia, but with a very limited warheadcapacity. In other words, the missile might reach Darwin but certainly not with an ultra-heavynuclear warhead. At most, it could deliver a small conventional warhead (which is a lotlighter).From:
defined ®
15/07/2003 2:52:21 PMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1225The Taepo Dong 1 was a three stage rocket, the second stage of which landed not far shortof the US. That means the first two stages carried the weight of the third stage plus thesatellite.This means we had a demonstration in 1998 that the Nth Koreans could deliver a nuclearbomb-sized payload a distance greater than Pyongyang to Darwin.Since then, there has been 5 years of development on the newer, larger Taepo Dong 2.From:
leone ®
15/07/2003 8:25:43 PMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1367How can we know what North Korea does or does not have and whether or not they have
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nukes that can reach Australia? After all, it seems our intelligence agencies cannot be trustedto keep the prime minister informed.what information do we rely on? Is any of it just theslightest bit accurate. As for Downer - it is probably safer to beleive the opposite of anythinghe says.From:
Cricket ®
16/07/2003 3:40:29 PMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1692A transmission satellite is pretty light. Sputnik weighed only a kilogram or so.From:
gfairlie ®
16/07/2003 7:11:28 PMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1774i think your reference point may be way off...Sputnik-1 Technical SpecificationsConstruction: Aluminum alloyShape: sphericalWeight: 83.6 Kg (184 Lbs)Diameter: 58 cm (23 in.)Orbit time: 96.16 minInitial orbit perigee: 142 miApogee: 588 miInclination: 64.3 degreesSpeed at perigee: 18,000 mphSpeed at apogee: 16,200 mph184 lbs is a lot different from 2.2lbsFrom:
defined ®
17/07/2003 9:32:19 AMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1914COMMISSION TO ASSESS THE BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT TO THE UNITEDSTATES ...this 1998 report deals with the specific question of the range and futuredevelopment of North Korean missiles.( http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/rumsfeld/toc.htm )The conclusion was that there was a high probability that the North Koreans could lob a nukeon middle America. They also pointed to weaknesses in US intelligence and that they couldbe surprised by the speed of Nth Korean missile development.That being the case, it is wicked of Downer and the participants of the Brisbane conferenceon interdiction to claim that the Nth Koreans "cannot" attack Australia.From:
MickyD
17/07/2003 10:08:34 AMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1929defined
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So what now?Sit round and wait til one lands?Or do we do the rumpty, pinko,weenie left wing socialist peacenik thing and wrap ourselves incopious quantities of Stalins "Last walk to the Woodheap" and hope for the best.From:
pistoph ®
17/07/2003 10:25:55 AMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1943The simple fact is that nobody outside the central pwoer club in North Korea can say with anycertainty that North Korea has an ICBM capability. All that can be said is that, on the availableevidence, this is unlikely.Downer, in claiming that Korea does not have this capacity, and then claiming that we are justified in ignoring international law to attack North Korean interests on the high seas iand inthe air, is simply being mischievous. He appears to be saying that it is safe to attack NorthKorean interests because they don't have the capacity to strike back, and that we NEED toattack their interests because they pose a clear and present danger.I think that this type of thing is known as "doublespeak".From:
defined ®
17/07/2003 11:30:58 AMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1994What to do? You recognise that applying pressure, sanctions and insults to the North Koreanscould result in very serious consequences for the citizens of Australia and the US.You recognise that North or South, Koreans are Koreans, and that they wish to be re-unified.You stop projecting your tired and irrelevent cold-war worldview onto a society that you do notunderstand or respect.And...you face the fact that a re-unified Korea will probably mean that a US military presenceon the North Asian mainland is no longer required or desired.From:
Cricket ®
17/07/2003 11:38:47 AMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 1998I accept the correction on Sputnik except that I don't think that refers to the actual orbitingtransmitter.Either way, 85kg is STILL a lot lighter than a first-stage nuclear weapon, which even withoutover-engineering (the first nukes for every country are always over-engineered) weigh at leasta tonne (the Hiroshima device weighed in at more than 10,000 pounds, didn't it?).From:
gfairlie ®
17/07/2003 1:09:33 PMSubject:
re: can they or cant they
post id: 2032cricket, nope, that is the weight of the orbiting trannie. (all up dry weight)
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