NY B9 Farmer Misc- WH 2 of 3 Fdr- 1-28-02 Campbell Brown-NBC Interview of Cheney 460

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THE

WHITE HOUSE

Office

of the

Press SecretaryInternal Transcript January 28, 2002INTERVIEW

OF

THE

VICE PRESIDENT

BYCAMPBELL

BROWN,

NBC NEWSMrs.

Cheney's

OfficeEisenhower Executive Office Building

11:00

A.M.

ESTQ

Let's start with

a

subject that

I

know

is one of

your favorite at the moment --

Enron. You've

made yourposition on this abundantly clear, that you have nointentionofhanding over documentsto theGeneral

Accounting

Office relating

to the

Energy TaskForce.

But

overtheweekend, Chiefof

Staff

Andy Card,onMeetThePress, seemed to indicate that there may be some room forcompromise for perhaps handing documents to a congressionalcommittee,certain

documents

limiting the information. Isthat something

that's

being discussed?

THE

VICE

PRESIDENT:

Well,webelieve

we've

alreadyprovided a great deal of information. The important thinghere, Campbell, to understand is what

we're

focused on arethose things that relate

to my

role

as

Vice President; thatasVice PresidentI'm theconstitutional officer provided

for

in the

Constitution.

And the General Accounting Officehas authority over statutory agencies, but not overconstitutional officers.

That's

not the way their statute

is

set up. And

that

it's

important here

to

protect

the

ability of the President and THE VICE

PRESIDENT

to get

unvarnished

advice from any source we want.We have given them a lot of information, for example,aboutthecostof theoperation.

They've

got

information

on

the

various agencies and departments that participated

where

they clearlydohave jurisdiction.But inthisonearea,wethink

it's

very important to preserve that

principle.

Q I understand the principle, the

confidentiality

issue.

But can youunderstandtheperception problem, that

to

many people

it may

look like

the

administration

has

something

to

hide?

THE

VICE PRESIDENT:

Well,

but

again,

what's

the

charge

\? What

is it

that

we are

alleged

to

have done with

|

000358

respect

to the

Energy

Task

Force?

The

fact

is,

there reallyaren't

any

charges.

Enron

didn't

receive

any

special

i

treatment.

We

talked

to all

kinds

of

people.

We

talked

to

energy companies, we talked to consumer groups, we talked toenvironmentalists,

we've

talked

to

labor leaders,

as we puttogether

our

package.

It's

a very good

package.

What

happened was

that Congressman

Waxman

decided

he

didn't

want to have to deal with the substance of what we

recommended,so he

attacked

it on the

basis

of

process:

youdidn't

talk

to the

right people;

you

should have talked

to

this person instead of that person.When he got the GAO involved when they first looked at

this

last

August, and we took a very tough

position,

they,

in effect,

backed

off. Now

what's

happened

is,

with

the •

Enron corporate collapse, some of my Democratic friends on

the

Hill have decided they'd like

to

come back

and try to

create

a

political

issue when

there really

isn't

one.

But

for

us to

give

up on

this very important principle

for the

sake

of

political expediency, which, frankly,

is the way we

look

it -- the

collapse

of

Enron should

not

justifycompromise on a basic fundamental principle of thepresidency -- we think that would be a mistake. We thinkthat would

be wrong.

-^

Most

of

all,

we're

interested here

in

trying

to

pass

on

|

to

our

successors

our

offices

in

better shape than

we

^s?

them

in. For 35

years that

I've

been

in

town,

there's

been

a

constant, steady

erosion

of the

prerogatives

and the

powers of the President of the United

States.

And I don'twant

to be a

part

of that.Q

But

can't

you understand the perception problem?You're

a

former

oil man --

THE

VICE PRESIDENT:

I

have

to

deal

in

reality,

not

perception.

Q

But this is the reality. You are a former oilman; the

President's

a formal oil man; Don Evans, theCommerce Secretary, a former oil man. So to a lot of

people,

it may appear that your friends at the energycompanies

may

have

had

undue

influence

when you

were

developing this

--

THE

VICE PRESIDENT:

Let's

talk about

undue

influence

for

a

minute.

The

Sierra Club

put out a set of

energy

policy

recommendations, 12 points. Our energyrecommendations

put out by our

task

force includes

11 ofthose.

Are we

unduly

influenced by the Sierra Club? Ofcourse not.

The

solution,

if you

want

to

evaluate

the

^

policy,

is go

read

the

study, look

at the 105

J

000359

recommendationswemade, decide whether they make senseordon't make sense. Some of them are probably good news for

energy

companies, some

of

them

aren't.

Enron, for example, wanted us to put a mandatoryemissions limit

on

carbon dioxide.

We

said

no.

Enronwanted us to support the Kyoto Treaty. We said

no.

Noteverybody got everything they wanted. But did we talk toenergy companies? Absolutely.

You'd

haveto be adamn fool

to

put together a comprehensive, nationwide energy policyand nottalktoenergy companies.

QI'm

going

to do

this

one

more time, then

we're

going to move on.

THE

VICE PRESIDENT:

That'sall

right.

Q

You're

arealist, though.You do

know

that there

is

a

political cost here.

Is the

principle worth thatpolitical cost?

THE

VICE

PRESIDENT:

I

took

an

oath

when

I

took

--

whenI was sworn in to support and defend the Constitution of theUnitedStates.

You

have

an

obligation,

I

believe,

in

these

offices to

defend

the

office against

the

unlawful

or

unconstitutional

or

unreasonable encroachment

by the

otherbranches

of

government.

The way the Constitution is set up specificallyprovides

for

separation

of

powers.

And to

create

a

precedent where future vice presidents, for example, would

be

in a

situation where anytime they meet with somebody,they have to call Henry

Waxman

and tell them who they metwith, what

the

subject

was

that

was

discussed, giving

him

notes

of the

meetings that were taken

--

now,

the

Congressman does not have the constitutional right to insistthat

the

President

or THE

VICE

PRESIDENT

provide

him

with

that

information, any more than I can demand of theCongressman, look, you've

got to

tell

me

everybody

you

talked to before you cast that vote.

That's

silly.

That's

not

the way the government works.

We

sit down, we get advice from any source we want.

We,

in the end, make decisions, and those decisions get

embodied

inlegislationwerecommended,or inthis case,in

a

177-page report whichis notsecret,weprinted thousands

of

copies

of it,

distributed

it all

over town.

Go

evaluate

the

report.Enron

didn't

get any special

deals.

Nobody got anyspecial

deals.

What

we did was to

give

our

best judgment.You can argue with it, you can debate

it,

you can say you

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