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OUT-OF-CHURCH CHRISTIANS - Andrew Strom
Quem são os cristãos que estão saindo das igrejas aos milhares? Em inglês.
From Fleur du Monde
-------Original Message-------
From:
Date:
06/19/05 14:54:38
To:
Subject:
Re: BH and Prophetic Movement
Linda, Since you were a long time friend of Dolo's, I kept from telling you of my concern about yourpraise for Benny Hinn. I was surprised this e-mail. We have a lot more in common than I thought.I have inserted my responses below:
-------Original Message------- From: Karl & Linda UbrigDate: 06/19/05 12:48:17To: Bible lover BillSubject: Re: BH and Prophetic Movement Bill, Yes, I did read all the articles down to the last period.
***Response from Germany-- I am glad that you read all.
And I would never go so far as to say that everything said could very well be right. And yes, we should judge what goes out, but before we start a big campaign against a person we should first pray for theleadership around this person to be the first to approach them about the problems. That is also the ApostlePaul's advice. When the leadership fails then and only then should it be brought before the congregation(not the whole Body of Christ around the World) and they should first go to prayer and decide whatshould be done. And even when it finally comes again to failed attempts to correct the problems, I stillfeel that we should be very careful what we say to others.
***Response from Germany-- I am the most concerned about the unBiblical teaching because of the warnings in the last chapter of the Bible and the exhortations about wrong teaching elsewhere.I do not have a campaign against Benny Hinn or anyone else. I do not like having to share suchinformation. But I know you and your husband want to do more ministry and I was concernedabout what you both would teach others because of your high regard for Mr. Hinn. He has beenapproached and exhorted in private by at least the Evangelist James Robison back in the 1980s andhe rejected the exhortations. I am very sure others have tried. The author of a book about him didtry. Mr. Hinn is not under any church authorities so the rest of Matthew 18:15-17 cannot be doneor 1 Corinthians 6.
I would rather hear something like," Hey folks, there seems to be some very real problems in BennyHinn's ministry and we as believers need to prayer and ask the Lord how we should pray for him and theministry.(period!)"
***Response from Germany-- Where in the Bible does it indicate such? What is being shared nowin public about the Christian leaders who have gone from their good beginnings is not gossip. Theyare quotes directly from the preachers. Also, you know the best intercessory prayer is done whenone has details to pray about.
More should not be said. Is not our Great Big Heavenly Father and our Saviour and the Holy Spirit notquite able (after creating the world , the universe and all that is in it) to inform the Body of Christ around
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the World who to pray for and how to pray for them without us taking the sword to them. Believe me, Ihave used the sword very unwisely and found out how the double edge sword could turn around on meand that no matter how right, bibically I thought I was. I am not condemning you or the others in anywayabout the need to pray but just giving a warning to be careful about how you do it.
***Response from Germany-- God uses human beings to do such attempts to correct such leaders.Check the history of Christianity, especially the revivals. Many of such leaders like Benny Hinn didend up poor and with awful health problems. Do you know of the late Brandham who many evennow considered the Prophet for the End Times. Dolo just told me yesterday that the leadingcharismatic group for setting up things for "faith healers" here in Hannover has had to stop after12 years. She was shocked.
From John G. Elliott:Characteristics of a fleshly ministry:1.
striving
-- trying to open a door of opportunity on my own effort2.
frustration
5.
selfish ambition
3.
burn-out
6.
shallowness
4.
self-promotion
7.
pleading for money
Characteristics of a Holy Spirit-led ministry:1.
historic evidence of the work of Divine Providence
of opening and closing doors for ministry2.
peace and contentment
5.
humility
3.
freshness
6.
spiritual depth
4.
the promotion of God, not self
7.
adequate provision
That group was doing a lot of merchandising of expensive things and helping some very unBiblicalpreachers. They even had expensive courses for faith living.I believe that only 2% of what is being done as "speaking in tongues", "signs and wonders", andprophesying is Holy Spirit urged and done. The rest is human done for pleasing others so the doersfeel acceptable.
And Bill, you are talking to someone who was raised so Baptist that you could not make me anymoreBaptist since my grandfather was a "Fire, Hell, and Damnation" Baptist preacher and all he ever read washis Bible and sometimes the newspaper. He preached to us from the moment we entered his house till weleft. And my parents never missed a meeting except for sickness all the years I was growing up. I alwayssay that I was born, fed, dressed, and grew-up in the church and in the Word of God and had to memorizeit as well.
***Response from Germany-- I am not for such either. I was exposed to several types of hyperfundamentalism churches and an elder in two of them. In the GARB, they avoided even speakingthe phrase “Holy Spirit” because of their hatred for charismatics. I never could have hatred oreven dislike of something I didn’t know about. I could only have hatred about what God hates.The GARB even condemned Rev. Billy Graham because he had “non-believers” in the pastor groupon the platform in his crusades and even referred people to go to non-Baptist churches. I could notthink likewise, but I did receive some good Bible teaching in those churches and Bible churches.God has had me exposed to other different Christian churches and religions so that I could besympathetic and compassionate with other people. I know that all of us have to be convinced thattrue Christianity is much much better than what we have been in. I was raised in the FirstCongregational Church which has become very liberal and just good works emphasis instead of theGospel and Jesus Christ. I keep praying for people in that church; it has the best church buildingcomplex I have ever seen (not fancy but very Christian looking with a huge boulder half in and half out of the front of it). It wasn't until 1982 that I realized how un-Biblical were the beliefs and theministries of that church. I was first married in a Roman Catholic church. My first full timeteaching ministry was in a Christian school supported by an Assembly of God Church. My nextministry was teaching in a Christian school supported by a small GARB church. I also went to
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Church of Christ, Southern Baptist, Independent/Conservative Baptist, Bible, Brethren, Methodist,and a number of different charismatic churches. In all, I looked for the good. I also did one timevisits to various cult meetings. All churches and cults have a lot of God's truths, but all of them alsohave non-God-pleasing beliefs and doctrines. The Apostle Paul warned several times about man'straditions and false teaching. It is hard for anyone to admit wrong and to change a habit. I am not for “forced” Bible memorizing and “forced” Bible reading. I am not for the “Hell, fire,damnation” preaching or any yelling preaching. I am not for “being forced to repeat a statementmade by the pastor” usually to someone sitting nearby. I am not even forced for being told to standup and sit down during worship. I am not for any manipulation done by church leaders. I haveenjoyed home groups, discussion Sabbath and Sunday school, Holy Spirit led worship, verse byverse Bible teaching, and intercessory prayer groups.
Still my experience with the Holy Spirit was just as profound as my experience with Salvation anddeeply moving. And I never want to stop learning at the feet of the Holy Spirit of all that He desires toshare with us of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and our wonderful Heavenly Father. And that includesthe prophectic no matter how many Baptists tried to say that it and healing and all the other gifts of theSpirit all died with the Apostles - and yes, I have been told that by many a Baptist. I now consider myself and Charismatic Baptist and that will not change.
***Response from Germany-- After loosing a ministry for not having done such and after beggingGod for a few months, I first spoke in tongues in January of 1975. In 1988 in a Washington D. C.church, I stood behind a woman who had been given some of the same words that I had receivedfrom God! In obeying the Holy Spirit of going to the church He had me see in the Yellow Pages ads,I had to walk several miles and go past at least 6 other churches. A number of other thingshappened at that church to confirm I was in the right place. Outside the Oaklawn Race Track inArkansas, I sang in tongues for the first time while we waited to pass-out Christian tracts to thoseleaving (most in despair because of the money they lost). I played the flute “by the Spirit” (not “byear”) songs I never heard before in the First Congregational Church of Redwood City, the FirstPresbyterian Church in Arcata, and various Roman Catholic churches when courting my first wife.That was in the Assembly of God Church I went to in the Fall of 1974. I did such again when I wasin Tennessee in 1988 and Arkansas in 1989. I have received words of knowledge and wisdom. Ihave had divine healings. And the Holy Spirit has helped me transform from a humble self-righteous worrier to an enduring man of faith. So I have a very charismatic history as well as myBible loving history. I was actually born again on May 25, 1967, but didn’t really get into the Bibleuntil the end of 1974 after being unjustly fired from my first ministry. Daily I love thinking asProverbs 3:5-8 says, looking for things to be thankful for, doing whatever the Holy Spirit urges, andpraying a lot for others (mostly related to the current events). But I cannot say I am of anydenomination; I am only a child of God who loves the Bible and what God loves. Christ-likenessshould be our goal. (Philippians 2)
I believe that the Word of God together with the Holy Spirit is the only way we will see revival in our day.
***Response from Germany-- I only think on personal revival terms in hope now. I did research of the great Christian revivals in the past and now we don’t have what it takes to have such. I believethat we are in the End Times now, the end of the Age of Grace. How can God be patient muchlonger, especially with what is happening in the churches and the spiritual warfare caused bydenominationalism?
You just can not leave out one for the other. Many Baptist Missionaries went to the field to learn that theyhad only their Salvation experience but no power to deal with all the demonic powers that they had tocope with. Many came and have come home broken for not knowing how to deal with these very real problems. Others discovered the power of the Holy Spirit and saw not only people saved but delivered of all kinds of demonic bondages that salvation alone did not free them of. Sadly I have spoken to many of
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07_03_30 About Discerning Ministries
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