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YourroleasthefirstDirectorofSustainabilityinPhiladelphiaisquiteexciting.WheredoyouseethemostpotentialfortheOfficeofSustainabilitytobringaboutchange,andaretherecertainventuresorstrategiesinparticularthatyouseeashavingahighreturnoninvestment?

WellIthinkthatpartlybydesign,theorganizationalstrategyforanofficeofsustainabilityinalocalgovernment‐reallyprobablyinanycomplexorganization,butlocalgovernmentshavesomespecialcharacteristicsthatIthinkmakethisstrategyparticularlyapt,is,what’ssometimescalledmatrixmanagement.Theofficeitselfcanstayrelativelylean,butthedirectorofthatofficeinparticularneedstobeascloseaspossibletotheCEO,orthemayor,butthatthebasicmechanicsoftheofficearesuchthatitreallyworksacrosstheorganizationitself,andbecomespervasive,throughoutthemissionofallthedifferentpartsofacomplexorganizationlikeagovernment.So,whatamIsaying?Thereareacoupleofwaysthatyoucanestablishanewoffice.YoucouldsetuparelativelylargeOfficeoftheEnvironmentandtrytopullinsay,someairqualityissues,somewatermanagementissues,maybesomekindoflongtermplanningaroundclimatechangeandadaptationorvulnerability‐differentkindsofthingslikethat‐andconsolidatethatcontentandthatauthorityandbudgetsandeverythingintoasingleplace.So,you’vegotsomeniceclearreporting,you’vegotsomerealauthoritytotellpeopletododifferentthings,andsoon.Butwhatyoutradeawayisthechancetoaffectwhateverydepartment‐thestreetsdepartment,thepolicedepartment

doesonadailybasis.Ourdecisionwastosay,“OK,everythingisupfornegotiation,there’salwaysgoingtobearematch,you’renotgoingtohavealotofauthority,you’renotgoingtohaveabigbudget,andwe’regoingtohavetorelyonotherpeopletocommittothesethings,buttheupsideisthatweactuallygetintothestandardpractices,thedailybusiness,ofeveryplaceingovernment.”Soasanapproach,that’sthewaytogetthemaximumleverage.Sometimestheindividualleversaresmall,buttheyadduptowhereyou’rereallyturningtheentiretankofgovernment.AndIthinkthat,bothasanillustrationofthatandalsoasananswertothesecondpartofyourquestion‐whereisthehighestreturn,especiallymaybeforsomesortofinitialstuff‐ithastodowithenergymanagement.Regardlessofwhethersomeone’sjobistorunyouthprograms,ortoclosepotholes,ortohandletheITneedsofthecity‐everybody’susingpower,gasorelectric,regardlessofthefuelsource.Sooneofthethingsthatwefocusedonveryearlywassomeofthemoreobviousstuff–makingsurewemeetourrenewableportfoliostandards’commitments,andmakingsurethatinadditiontoenteringthebravenewworldofwholesale,market‐directpurchasingofyourelectricity,webuildsomecapacitytobeabletobeastrategicenergymanagerinthecity.Thatmeanspayingattentiontothingslikethefactthatrightnow,forperfectlygoodreasonsthathavebeeninplaceforoverfiftyyears,nobodyseestheirelectricitybill‐itjustgoestoacentraloffice.It’salwaysbeentreatedasakindoffixedcost,kindoflikeyourpensionbenefits,andmaybeit’sthe

samepensionpackageoroneoftwoorthreepensionpackages,sowhydoyouhavetobudgetit,it’salwaysgoingtobethesame?Powerrunsinthesameway.Now,asyouknow,whenyou’resetupthatway,there’sabsolutelynoincentivetoturnthelightsoff,becausethere’snoimpact.Andsopeopleoccupybuildingsinwhichthecostofelectricityoranyotherpowerisessentiallyfreetothem,andtheyover‐consume‐theywasteit.Oneofthethingsthatwepaidalotofattentiontointhisfirstyearwaschangingthatbudgetpractice.Sonow,theoccupantsofbuildings,whethertheyareinalibrary,orpoliceorfirestation,outintheneighborhoods‐wherevertheyare‐nowfaceincentivestoconserve,sothattheyactuallygetsomeofthebenefitsofthatconservationwheretheysavemoneyandcanspenditonthingsthattheyreallycareabout,ratherthanontheelectricbill.Sothere’sanexampleofbothsomethingthatyouhavetodofirst‐becauseit’sbigreturnsonefficiency,andbecausealotofthosereturnsaccruetothewaythatpeopleusebuildings,becausebuildingsareabsolutelythekeyaspartoftheinitialfirststeps,butalsothebulkofwaste.InNewYork,buildingsareseventy‐ninepercent‐alittlelowerinPhiladelphia‐ofthecostofcarbonemissionsaswellaspowerandenergyconsumptionincitiesisassociatedwithbuildings,withafarlowerpercentageofitinNewYork,Philadelphia,andinthenationalaveragebeingassociatedwithtransportationandmasstransit.Soyoufocusonenergyinbuildingsandefficiencyfirstbecausethereturnissohigh,andtheonlywayyougetallofthatreturniswhenyoumakesurethatyou’vefiguredoutawaytohaveanOfficeofSustainabilitythattalkstoeverybody’sbuildingowners.Noweventhatmodelisnotthemagicbullet,becauseitreliesoncertainthingsthatyouhavetohave,themostimportantofwhichistheabsolutebackingofthemayor,orwhoeveristhechiefelectedofficial.Withoutthat,thispervasivethingdoesn’thappen.You’regivingupspecificsetofreportinglines,whichistheessenceofyourcontrol,butwhatyou’regettinginsteadisthissubsidiary,thisdelegatedauthoritywhereyou’resaying,“Iknowyoudon’treporttome,butthemayorreallywantsmetodothis,soI’maskingyou,andyoureallyneedtodoit.”

Onemajorthemeonourblogisthediscussionofwhatsustainabilitymeans. Asarchitects,weareawareofhigh-techlingoandLEEDcertification,howeverthesearereallythetasksofengineers.OneprimaryinitiativeinGreenworksistherenovationofcity-ownedbuilding,and,asyoualreadydiscussed,improvingenergyefficiencyacrossallbuildingtypes.Doyouimaginethattheseslow,steady,efficiency-basedimprovementstothebuiltenvironmentwillsuffice?Doyoueverthinkthatsomeradicalizationfromthebottomup,(thepeople),needstooccur,orwilltheaccumulationoftheminimuminvolvementbythemassesbeenough?

No,it[theminumum]willnotbeenough.It’sgoingtotakealloftheabove.Theelephantintheroom,isobviously,thatthechallenges–andagain,thisisstillallcontested,there’sstillsomeuncertainty,wehavetomakesomejudgmentsinthefaceofuncertaintyofhowbadtheproblemis‐butIthink,certainly,I’monthesideoftheargumentthatsaysthatthechallengesaresolargethatit’sreallynotaquestionofpickingfromamongstrategies,butmoreofaquestionofprioritizingthestepsinwhichwemightdothings.Wehavetodoeverythingweknowabout,orwearen’tgoingtogetthere.Thesethingsneedtoworkintandem,andthedesignquestion,ifyouwill,ishowyoucansequenceandprogramthosestepssothattheybecomemutuallyreinforcingandyougetsomekindofefficiencyoutofyourpolicyaswellasoutofyourbuildings.Forexample,ifyoulookatafullyrealizedprogramofconsistent,yearafteryearretrofittingofmunicipalfacilities,notonlyisthatinherentlyuseful‐becauseit’sloweringconsumptionpatternandtheloadassociatedwiththoseproperties,andsoon‐it’salsoateachingmoment.Itbecomesakindofbrandingandteachingdevicethatyoucanuseinsaying“OK,we’relookingattheenvelopeofa1964municipalservicesbuilding,andwe’repayingattentiontosomeofthewaysthatthewindowsinourbuildingarebeingcoated,ortreated,orsealed,orwhatever,andwe’retalkingaboutthatnotjustbecauseitlowerstheenergyconsumptioninthatbuilding,butalsobecausewewantothersimilarofficebuildingsandotherbuildingtypestobecomeawareofthenewtechnologiesthatareemerging,howtopayforandfinancetheuseofthosetechnologies,andwhatsomeoftheadvantagesofdeployingthemare.”Soitalsobecomesawayofreinforcingsomeofthebottom‐up,moredistributedwaysofnotjusteducatingbutalsoempoweringpeopletoactuallytakeadvantageofsomeofthisstuffthemselves‐whichhastohappen‐andthesethingscanworktogether.Ithinkyouhavetodoallofthat.

Butasidefromteachingpeopletobemoreefficientwiththeirenergyuse,forexample,doyouseethegovernmenthavingtheabilitytobringaboutsomeofthelifestylechangesthataregoingtoneedtohappeninorderforustotrulylive“sustainably”andsubstantiallysaveonenergyuse?

Ithinkthatthereareacoupleofthings.Wehavetoexploremoreofwhatyoumeanbythe“lifestylechanges”,butwe’retalkingaboutthemorefundamentalstuff.Ithinkthatyou’reright‐youneedtogobeyondjusteducatingpeoplesothey’llpursueenlightenedselfinterest,andchangesomeoftherulesofthegame–forexample,whatNewYorkisdoingnowandwe’restartingtodoourselveshere.NewYorkisveryfaralong.They’vearticulatedthestrategyverynicely,andit’seasytoreadaboutthiswholenewgreenbuildingcode.Theyarecompletelyrelookingthecode,involvingallofthesedifferentparties,propertymanagers,constructionfirms,thebuildingtradesunions,aswellasthegovernmentregulatorstogothroughtheentirebuildingandzoningcodeandreplacetheenergyspecificationsthatarebuiltintothosevariouscodes,andsoon–it’sterrific.Sothey’rechangingtherulesofthe

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Full Mark Alan Hughes Interview Transcript

Jargon, Etc. Interview with Dr. Mark Alan Hughes, Philadelphia's first Director of Sustainability

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