Episode 10 A Brave New World Participants: Adam B. Levine (AL) Host Andreas %tep$an& . Antonopolo!s (A.A.) "o#$ost !

t !rp$& (% ) "o#$ost

Andreas Petersson (AP) # 'itcoin!pdate.com (!stice (() Listener w$o 'rie)l& appears at *+,:-0

AL Hello ever&'od&. Adam B. Levine $ere. / want to welcome &o! to t$is special episode o) Lets0al1Bitcoin. 2ecorded at t$e ver& end o) t$e con)erence. %tep$anie !rp$& and / were 3oined )or t$is late ni4$t ro!nd!p '& Andreas Petersson o) Bitcoin5pdate.com. /n t$is episode we disc!ss o!r )avorite t$in4s. o!r t$o!4$ts. o!r views and o!r $opes. / $ope t$at &o! en3o& t$is episode as m!c$ as we en3o&ed ma1in4 it.

% 6otta $ave t$e $at w$en &o! wrap !p t$e part&.

AL Well /7m tr&in4 to create t$is anac$ronistic vi'e w$ere /7ve 4ot t$e s!spenders 4oin4 on and /7ve 4ot t$e.. / alwa&s wear s!spenders a4ain / $ave t$is idea t$at 3o!rnalism is t$is dead art )rom a past a4e and i) &o! can replicate t$e vi'e &o! can 'rin4 it 'ac1.

% 8o! do and &o!7ve 4ot &o!r 'ad4e on &o!r s$irt 3!st li1e an old sc$ool. 8o! loo1 li1e &o! stepped o!t o) t$e 19:07s.

AP 8ea$. it7s cra;&. /t7s 4reat.

AL Here we 4o one last time.

AP /7ll 'e $onest a'o!t it. /t7s o1a& i) &o! are tired.

% /s Andreas Antonopolo!s comin4<

AL No $e7s not. $e7s...

% =1a&. well we $ave an Andreas.

AP / was 3!st s!''in4 t$at7s )ine.

% /t7s Adam s!''in4 Andreas. Not t$e Andreas t$at &o!7re !sed to.

AL We7re 3oined '& Andreas Petersson )rom t$e Bitcoin 2eport.

AP 8es act!all& it7s t$e Bitcoin 5pdate. 0$e 'itcoin!pdate.com.

AL 0$e Bitcoin5pdate.com w$ic$ is t$e world7s onl& and 'est 6erman lan4!a4e and 'itcoin speci)ic podcast and &o! 4!&s are wee1l&. ri4$t<

AP E>actl&. 8ea$. &ea$ we do record wee1l& as )ar as it7s possi'le. %o )ar we7ve made it wee1l&. And we started o!t as a ver& small podcast in a se4ment in an open#so!rce podcast w$ere t$ere7s a lot o) 'eer 'ein4 cons!med. People li1e me 3!st met on t$e street and tal1ed a'o!t open#so!rce and t$e topic alwa&s circled aro!nd 'itcoin. %o it was 1ind o) ta1in4 a (ina!di'le 0:::1-) podcast so we decided to ma1e a se4ment dedicated to t$at and spin it o)) and / t$in1 t$at7s 'een a 4ood s!ccess so )ar.

AL

Well. / don7t spea1 6erman '!t / $ear 4ood t$in4s. %o i) &o! 4!&s start doin4 transcripts /7ll 'e a'le to 4et )eed'ac1 on &o!r content '!t as it stands ri4$t now. %o / 4!ess we s$o!ld pro'a'l& ins!re o!rselves at t$is point. %o w$at. it7s a'o!t 10:00 on w$at. %!nda& t$e last da& o) t$e Bitcoin ?estival. Bitcoin "on)erence :01- and we are all dead e>$a!sted.

AP /t7s a weird )eelin4. ri4$t 'e)ore t$e $an4over. /s t$at correct<

% / t$in1 t$is is t$e $an4over.

AP 0$is is t$e $an4over< 8o! $ave to sleep to $ave a $an4over.

AL %o t$is was a. t$is was a $ell o) a t$in4. wasn7t it. 8o! 1now / 1now t$at / $ad prett& $i4$ e>pectations 4oin4 into it 'eca!se / was t$in1in4 t$at t$is is somet$in4 t$at7s comin4. t$e time is ri4$t. 0$ere7s a lot o) people comin4 in )rom all over t$e world '!t it reall& 'lew me awa& /7ve 4ot to sa&. Andreas so &o! were $ere 'ot$ as a vendor '!t t$at7s t$e wron4 word. 8o! were $ere displa&in4 )or &celi!m w$ic$ was reall& one o) t$e most interestin4 pro3ects.

% He was one o) t$e 'oot$ 'a'es. No /7m 3!st 1iddin4.

AP 8ea$. &ea$ we $ad nice 'oot$ 'a'es. And were were t$e main sponsors act!all& o) t$is con)erence. And we tried to present o!r plat)orm to t$e 4eneral a!dience and 3!st 4et some )eed'ac1 on it. %o o!r main prod!ct will 'e t$e Bitcoin "art. %o t$e Bitcoin"art.or4 &o! can see an inspirational video t$at is sort o) a vision o) w$at is 4oin4 to come. 0$e )irst iteration we are 4oin4 to s$ow is 4oin4 to 'e a little 'it down to eart$.

% W$at are t$e ot$er prod!cts< Beca!se / was onl& aware o) t$e Bitcoin"art.

AP 8ea$ so t$e Bitcoin"art is t$e main prod!ct and to s!pport it we will create a w$ole '!nc$ o) additional prod!cts t$at &o! can !se wit$ it so t$e &celi!m wallet will 'e in t$e pla& store $ope)!ll& ver& soon act!all&. And we will $ave sol!tions )or merc$ants to !se 'itcoin in a ver& eas& wa&. %o &o! can sell &o!r prod!cts )or 'itcoin ver& easil& and &o! don7t $ave a c!rrenc& ris1. And &o!7d $ave 0 con)irmations and we 4!aranteed t$at &o! will 4et t$e mone&. B!t t$at7s a little 'it )ar o!t in t$e )!t!re so &o! can7t 4et t$at ri4$t now. 0$e wallet will pro'a'l& 'e t$e )irst t$in4 t$at will 'e availa'le )or &celi!m.

AL %o we7re act!all& $ave Ale> t$e visionar& 'e$ind t$at prod!ct on as soon as $e 4ets 'ac1 )rom oscow. / spent m& entire &esterda& 'asicall& 'oo1in4 o!r ne>t + wee1s wort$ o) 4!ests.

% 6od. Loo1 at &o!.

AL Well. %tep$anie. 6od. &o! recorded li1e 1@ interviews.

% =$. no. it7s more li1e -0 at t$is point. We7re 4onna $ave content )or mont$s i) we want it. We7re 4onna $ave to release a w$ole podcast t$at7s interviews or somet$in4 li1e t$at.

AL 8ea$. well &o! 1now. a4ain t$e 'on!s content t$in4 3!st $as to $appen. Beca!se t$ere7s so m!c$ content comin4 o!t o) t$is. We $aven7t reall& tal1ed a'o!t speci)ics 'esides t$e &celi!m card '!t t$e people w$o are presentin4 ideas $ere... one o) t$e 4!&s w$o 4ave a presentation t$at / reall& reall& li1ed. $is name is (o$n Li4$t. We7re a4ain 4onna $ave $im on t$e s$ow. His concept is. $e7s reall& )oc!sed on clo!d identit& mana4ement. And wit$ t$e idea t$at ?ace'oo1 and t$ese ot$er plat)orms are essentiall& data silos t$at ta1e &o!r data and t!rn t$e c!stomer into t$e prod!ct. %o / t$in1 t$at t$at7s 1ind o) o'vio!s i) &o! loo1 at t$e s&stem and sa& o1. well $ow are t$e& ma1in4 mone&. Well. o'vio!sl& $ow it is. His idea wit$ t$is tal1 on personal clo!ds is to )!nctionall& ta1e t$at concept o) $ere7s &o!r identit&. $ere7s all o) t$is data a'o!t &o! t$at lives in t$is clo!d # it7s all encr&pted and &o! $ave complete control over w$o 4ets to see w$at. And &o! essentiall& open c$annels to vario!s people. /t7s almost li1e w$en &o! )riend some'od& in t$e s&stem &o!7re si4nin4 a contract wit$ $im sa&in4 /7d li1e to s$are t$is in)ormation wit$ &o!. and &o! can send reall& ric$ parameters on it too. %o ma&'e some people &o! onl& want to

'e a'le see partic!lar in)ormation )rom 9#@ in t$e da& and it 4ives &o! complete 4ran!lar control to 'e a'le to do t$at.

AP /sn7t t$at e>actl& t$e idea 'e$ind Aiaspora or was it<

% 6oo4le Pl!s $as some o) t$ose )eat!res too. '!t.

AL 8ea$ so 6oo4le Pl!s. 0$at7s t$e interestin4 t$in4 a'o!t t$is. 6oo4le Pl!s $as t$is concept. ri4$t< E>cept 6oo4le does 1now all &o!r data. %o t$ere7s t$at part. B!t t$e ot$er part is &o! $ave to 'e &o!rsel). ri4$t< %o li1e &o!7re %tep$anie !rp$& no matter w$at it is. not matter w$ic$ circle &o!7re tal1in4 to it7s 3!st t$at di))erent circles see di))erent aspects o) &o!. W$ereas wit$ t$is &o! can act!all& maintain m!ltiple identities and !se application speci)ic identities in certain scenarios t$at are advanta4eo!s so &o! can $ave one t$at7s a real name associated wit$ it t$at is &o!r real name and it $as &o!r medical records in it. %o &o! 4o to t$e doctor and instead o) t$em $avin4 &o!r medical records )or t$e rest o) &o!r li)e instead &o! can sa& o1a&. well $ere are medical records and &o! can $ave t$em )or B da&s and t$en a)ter t$at t$e&7re no lon4er reall& relevant to &o!.

AP %o i) &o! are !sin4 t$is as a tool / 4!ess t$at7s 1ind o) missin4 t$e point 'eca!se i) &o!7re !sin4 one tool to mana4e all t$ese identities t$at are still lin1ed p$&sicall& 'eca!se t$e& are on one mac$ine to4et$er.

AL Well. no. act!all& / mean. We7re 4onna $ave (o$n on t$e s$ow prett& C!ic1. He7s act!all& local to me. He7s onl& a'o!t +0 miles awa& )rom w$ere / record. /7m s!re $e can 4o into it in more detail t$an / can. And now /7ve )or4otten w$& &o!7ve act!all& as1ed me.

AP 8ea$. so i) &o!7re !sin4 all o) t$ese identities )rom one partic!lar pro4ram t$e&7re act!all& p$&sicall& lin1ed to &o!r comp!ter at t$e same time so t$e&7re not li1e encr&pted. separate...

AL 0$e& are encr&pted. ever&t$in4 is encr&pted. And w$at $appens is t$at essentiall& &o!7ve 4ot all o) &o!r data stored encr&pted on &o!r mac$ine. and t$ere7s a 'ac1!p t$at lives in t$e clo!d. And t$at 'ac1!p s&nc$roni;es wit$ ever&t$in4 else. %o it7s li1e w$en &o! wor1 wit$ 6oo4le. li1e / do a lot o) t$in4s wit$ 6oo4le Arive. And w$en / wor1 wit$ t$at it sta&s in t$e clo!d. /t starts in t$e clo!d. / '!ild it in t$e clo!d. it sta&s in t$e clo!d. And t$en / can access it. %o / donDt act!all& $ave a local cop& most o) t$e time. W$ereas wit$ t$is &o! do $ave a local cop&. %o an&wa&s t$at was 1ind o) one o) t$e interestin4 t$in4s t$at came o!t o) t$is. Andreas w$at was &o!r )avorite t$in4 at t$e con)erence.

AP 0$e t$in4 t$at / was t$e most impressed wit$ was t$e amo!nt o) new innovation 4oin4 on. %o ri4$t 'e)ore t$e con)erence / was reall& p!mped and said wow. /7m so e>cited. /7m loo1in4

)orward to t$is and t$is and t$is pro3ect. %o especiall& t$e... / li1e most act!all& Llama %o!p B0". 0$e 'itcoin A0 . / t$in1 t$e& $ave a real practical sol!tion to all t$ese 1inds o) pro'lems.

% / 1now t$ose 4!&s. 0$e& live near me in New Hamps$ire.

AP / t$in1 t$e& $ave a reall& convincin4 stor& to 'rin4 t$is to t$e mar1et. =) co!rse on t$e tec$nical side )or me practicall& t$is was t$e onl& tal1 / attended. /t was a'o!t HA wallets. $ierarc$ical deterministic wallets. 0$is is 4oin4 to ma1e 'itcoin reall& more !sea'le once t$is is implemented in t$e wallet so)tware so /7m loo1in4 )orward to t$at. =$. so HA Wallets p$&sicall& means t$at &o! don7t $ave to 'ac1!p &o!r wallet ever& time t$at &o! send a transaction. Beca!se ri4$t now i) &o!7re !sin4 'itcoin E0 t$e wa& it wor1s is &o! $ave a 1e& pool. and i) &o!r 1e& pool 4ets depleted i) &o! do a lot o) transactions so t$at &o!r pac1et 4ets invalid 'eca!se &o!r new 1e&s are no lon4er in t$is 'ac1!p an&more.

AL %o w$at &o!7re 'asicall& sa&in4 is t$at i) / !se @0. let7s sa& t$e '!))er is @0. =1a&. so t$e '!))er is @0.

AP B!))er is 100.

AL

B!))er is 100. o1a&. %o i) t$e '!))er is 100 i) &o!7re sa&in4 t$at 'etween t$e time t$at / 'ac1!p m& wallet. /) / t$en 4enerate 100 more addresses. t$en a)ter t$at point t$ose are no lon4er act!all& recovera'le !nless &o! re)res$ t$e 'ac1!p.

AP 8ea$. &o! $ave to 'e aware t$at &o! are also 4eneratin4 addresses w$en sendin4 mone& and receivin4 mone& 'eca!se &o! $ave to 4enerate t$e c$an4e addresses.

AL %o it7s transactions almost.

AP 8ea$. it7s transactions.

AL =$ reall&. so t$en t$ere7s onl& a '!))er o) 100 transactions 'etween 'ac1!ps.

AP 8ea$. 'ac1 and )ort$ act!all&. 'eca!se &o!7re 4eneratin4 new addresses w$en &o!7re receivin4 somet$in4 i) &o! are activel& doin4 t$at '!t &o! are a!tomaticall& 4eneratin4 new addresses w$en &o! are receivin4 c$an4e.

AL

Well / t$in1 / need to re)res$ m& 'ac1!p.

AP 8ea$F A'sol!tel&. A'sol!tel&. %o BitcoinE0 reall& needs re4!lar 'ac1!ps act!all&. All t$e time. %o HAWallets. once t$at7s implemented &o! can 'ac1 !p 3!st one seed and t$e wa& it wor1s is it 4enerates new p!'lic 1e&s and new private 1e&s and it can act!all& do )anc& tric1s li1e creatin4 a new seed )rom t$e master seed t$at is let7s sa& )rom one part o) a compan&. And eac$ department can !se its own private seed. And t$e "E= o) t$e compan& can !se t$e master seed to spend all department )!nds at once. =r somet$in4 li1e t$at. %o &o! can ima4ine..

AL W$at does t$e HA stand )or<

AP Hierarc$al Aeterministic. Hierarc$al means t$at &o! can create t$e tree str!ct!re. 0$en &o! 4enerate a '!nc$ o) private 1e&s and p!'lic 1e&s. %o t$e most common !se case wo!ld 'e li1e. /7m a s$op. / want to accept 'itcoin. and t$en / p!t m& master p!'lic 1e& into a p!'lic so)tware t$at7s r!nnin4 somew$ere on t$e net t$at doesn7t need to 'e ver& sec!re 'eca!se no'od& can access &o!r )!nds '!t &o! can 4enerate a new address )or eac$ c!stomer )or e>ample wit$o!t an& tro!'le on t$is remote mac$ine t$at7s not ver& sec!re. 8o!7re receivin4 t$e mone& and spendin4 )rom &o!r paper. 'ac1!p. w$atever &o! need. And t$e Peter W$eeler t$e core developer is wor1in4 on t$at. And a lot o) pro4rams. $ardware vendors also and $ope)!ll& also t$e 'itcoin card will pic1 t$at !p and !se it. 0$at7s not a promise '!t / $ope.

AL Li1e / said we7re tal1in4 ver& late at ni4$t so ta1e ever&t$in4 at )ace val!e $ere. %o %tep$anie. &o!7re $ere wit$ 3!st a ton o) di))erent pro3ects and &o!7ve 'een 4eneratin4 incredi'le content and so &o! said &o! did -0 interviews. W$o do &o! t$in1 was &o!r )avorite interview< / 1now it7s li1e as1in4 to pic1 &o!r c$ildren wit$ t$e people $ere. =1a&. let7s 3!st do a top -.

% 8ea$. o1a&. Well 6avin. / tal1ed to 6avin. t$at was reall& cool. / sort o) $ad an in 'eca!se / 1new $im 'eca!se $e was )riends... &o! 1now $e... /7m involved wit$ t$is radio s$ow ?ree0al1Live. we act!all& 'roadcasted toni4$t $ere )rom t$e con)erence and /an and ar1 t$e main $osts o) ?ree0al1Live $ad met 6avin 'ac1 in :010 or somet$in4 li1e t$at and tal1 a'o!t 'itcoins and / t$in1 $e prett& m!c$ li1e convinced t$em to 4et on 'oard. %o / 1ind o) 1new $im t$at wa& and $e also lives in t$e town w$ere / went to colle4e. %o we 1inda tal1ed a'o!t t$at st!)) a little 'it '!t we also tal1ed a'o!t a lot o) t$eir st!)) and $e said $e7s li1e mostl& a li'ertarian and t$at7s cool. / alwa&s li1e it w$en / 4et people to admit t$at t$e&Dre li'ertarians. Beca!se / am.

AP / t$in1 on t$e 'itcoin con)erence &o! 1ind o) $ave to sa& t$at 'eca!se / 4ot in some $eav& disc!ssions 'eca!se... / wo!ld not sa& /7m t$is la'el or t$at la'el. B!t /7m certainl& not strai4$t o!t li'ertarian.

AL We act!all& tal1ed a'o!t t$is on ?ree0al1Live w$en / was on )or m& 'rie) period o) time.

% /7m not re)errin4 to t$e li'ertarian part& or an& poetical part& or an&t$in4 li1e t$at. (!st some'od& w$o val!es $!man )reedom 'asicall&.

AL 8ea$. t$e la'els do 4et con)!sin4.

AP 8ea$. / t$in1 la'els are dan4ero!s. La'els p!t &o! into corners and limit &o! in &o!r ima4ination.

% 8ea$ '!t w$at do &o! call &o!rsel) to s!ccinctl& descri'e &o!r views<

AP 8ea$. t$at7s a )air..

AL / 4o wit$ )iscall& conservative and social li'eral.

% 0$ose are complete opposites.

AP / 4o wit$ Noam "$oms1&.

AL Noam "$oms1&. =1a&. s!re. /7ll '!& t$at. %o t$at was n!m'er one )or &o!. Ao &o! $ave an& ot$ers<

% 8ea$. let me t$in1 w$o else / interviews. 8o! 1now some o) m& interviews were 1ind o) s$ort. Li1e / wo!ld $ave li1ed to $ave more time to tal1 to t$e people '!t t$at7s )ine. / 4!ess / 4ot some names. / tal1ed to i1e Gern toda&. 0$at was interestin4. He said some even more interestin4 st!)) o)) t$e record / 4!ess. W$ic$. &o! can $ear t$e interview '!t / won7t li1e repeat w$at $e said. B!t. we $ad a conversation a'o!t di))erent !ses o) 'itcoins )or smart propert& and also some o) t$e social en4ineerin4 t$at7s '!ilt into 'itcoins and some o) t$e ot$er alt coins. 0$at was interestin4 to me. 0$at was de)initel& in m& top t$ree. And w$o was t$e ot$er one< Let7s see. / t$in1 / $ave to t$in1 a'o!t t$is a little more /7ll pass on it )or now.

AL 0$at7s )ine. We $ad a 4reat interview on. see w$at / did. %tep$anie wor1ed t$ro!4$o!t t$e w$ole t$in4. & 3o' as t$e editor in c$ie) is to create content '!t also /7m wor1in4 o!t t$e sc$ed!le. /7m loo1in4 )or contri'!tors. %o one o) t$e reall& 4reat t$in4s a'o!t 'ein4 $ere and )or t$is time is t$at t$ere are so man& 3!st cra;& smart people. / mean t$e 4ro!p t$at came $ere $as totall& sel)#selected to 'e $ere and it7s 3!st t$e amo!nt o) passion t$at7s in t$is crowd is a'sol!tel& !nreal. /t7s $!m'lin4 'eca!se it7s t$e sort o) t$in4 w$ere / $ave t$rown m&sel) into t$is in a ver& w$ole $earted wa& and /7ve 1ind o)

viewed m&sel) as t$is cra;& o!tlier and it t!rns o!t not t$at cra;& or ma&'e t$at cra;& '!t at least t$ere are ot$er cra;& people w$o are 4oin4 on t$is same 3o!rne& wit$ !s as we 4o down t$e ra''it $ole.

% / 'et a lot o) people were t$in1in4 t$at same t$in4. / t$in1 t$atDs t$e point o) con)erences to some e>tent. 8o!7re o!t t$ere w$erever &o! live in t$e world and &o!7re 1ind o) alone 'eca!se t$ere aren7t tons o) people aro!nd &o!. a&'e &o! can 4o to meet!ps and st!)) '!t t$ere aren7t a ton o) people aro!nd &o! w$o reall& s$are &o!r interests on a deep level and w$en &o! 4o to a con)erence it7s 1ind o) li1e a little cit& 4ets created # almost li1e '!rnin4 man / 4!ess &o! co!ld sa& )or a wee1end or $owever lon4. And &o!7re s!ddenl& amon4 a '!nc$ o) people w$o are real visionaries and l!minaries w$o totall& s$are &o!r interest. 2eall& cool connections.

AL =ne o) t$e reall& cool t$in4s was to see all t$ese people w$o are )!nctionin4 li1e "ip$er p!n1s w$ic$ is t$is concept o) people w$o !se cr&pto4rap$& as a wa& to do st!)). (ac1. 4ive me a 'etter de)inition t$an t$at.

AP / wo!ld sa& a c&p$er p!n1 is someone w$o 'elieves t$e& can c$an4e a societ& '& !sin4 cr&ptoo4rap$& and

AL 0$at7s a 'etter de)inition.

AP %o essentiall& t$e !se o) cr&pto4rap$& is ver& central to t$at.

AL %o some o) t$e people $ere w$o 1ind o) most )all into t$at cate4or& are total cele'rities $ere. And it7s li1e t$is cool t$in4. 8o! see t$e tal1s t$at are reall& sparsel& pop!lated. t$e&7re t$e ones t$at are tal1in4 a'o!t t$e re4!lator& # not t$e re4!lator&. t$e re4!lator& act!all& was ver&. ver& crowded. 0$ere7s a lot o) people reall& concerned a'o!t t$at. B!t some o) t$e tal1s t$at are a'o!t more mainstream topics / can7t t$in1 o) an& o)) t$e top o) m& $ead. We7re not t$at well attended. '!t t$en on t$e )lip side o) it we7ve 4ot people w$o. t$ere7s a 4!& w$o created e#mone& w$o was $ere and spea1in4. /t was act!all& w$ile / was o!tside d!rin4 one o) &o!r panels. %tep$anie. t$ere was a 4ro!p o) pro'a'l& @0 or B0 people w$o $ad 3!st s!rro!nded $im and mo''ed $im and it lasted )or li1e a $al) $o!r. And t$ere were people wit$ cameras $oldin4 !p. 8o! 1now it was li1e a cele'rit& and it was 3!st li1e wow. t$is is s!c$ a contrar& t$in4. We7re in t$is real world place '!t it7s so not t$e real world.. we7ve ta1en it over and it7s 3!st people li1e !s.

AP 2e)errin4 to t$at %o!t$ selection &o! previo!sl& mentioned. / t$in1 t$atDs a ver& $ard pat$ to act!all& )ollow. 8o! $ave to 1now a lot a'o!t a n!m'er o) topics to 'e reall& ent$!siastic a'o!t 'itcoin and most people 4ive !p $al) t$e wa& and sa& o$ t$at7s some cra;& internet t$in4&... act!all& it7s not so m!c$ t$e &o!n4 people. 8ea$. ed!cated people also.

AL

Well it depends on &o!r de)inition o) &o!n4 is. We were tal1in4 a'o!t t$is all t$ro!4$o!t t$e con)erence. 0$at t$e a4e 4ro!p t$at is $ere t$at is most impact)!l is pro'a'l& t$e a4e 4ro!p 'etween a'o!t :@. :B. li1e -@#+0 on t$e !pper end. And t$en 'e&ond t$at &o! certainl& $ave o!tliers. /7m not sa&in4 t$at ever&'od& was 'etween t$ose '!t t$e people t$at are doin4 t$e cra;iest st!)) are 1ind o) in t$at ran4e. And / t$in1 t$at7s reall& interestin4.

AP 8ea$. t$e &o!n4 people act!all&...

AL Aon7t !nderstand it.

AP 8ea$. comin4 to t$e con)erence is a 'i4 $!rdle )or man&. / mean. 4ettin4 in a plane. and leavin4...&o! $ave to 'e ali1e... an& wor1 li)e.. a&a$.

% Ao &o! t$in1 t$ere were an&'od& w$o didn7t come 'eca!se t$e& don7t want to 'e p!'lic essentiall&< Almost li1e %atos$i<

AL A$. no. / t$in1 t$at ma&'e %atos$i was $ere< W$o wo!ld 1now< 8o! 1now. / mean a4ain. t$at7s w$at / wo!ld do. /) &o!7re 4onna ma1e somet$in4 disr!ptive li1e t$is t$e pla& is &o! ma1e it. &o! 4et it to t$e point w$ere &o!r idea $as le4s and it7s 4onna wor1.

And t$en &o! wal1 awa&. t$row awa& t$at identit&. A4ain. comin4 'ac1 to t$e personal clo!d concept. it7s a'o!t $avin4 application speci)ic identities 'eca!se t$e realit& is t$ese tec$nolo4ies are dan4ero!s. And it7s not dan4ero!s 'eca!se &o!7re 4onna c!t o)) &o!r )in4er. /t7s dan4ero!s 'eca!se t$e&7re disr!ptive and 'eca!se t$e& c$an4e t$e wa& t$at t$e world wor1s. And once &o! 1ind o) e>trapolate t$at o!t t$ere are real implications t$at come alon4 'eca!se people w$o $ave power reall& don7t li1e 4ivin4 it !p. And an& time &o! $ave disr!ption &o! $ave s$i)ts o) $ow t$e power is distri'!ted.

AP / $ave a 'it o) s!spicion t$at t$e real innovative new !ses )or 'itcoin are not essentiall& t$e ones we are seein4 on t$e s!r)ace ri4$t now '!t rat$er li1e real disr!ptive to o!r 'ase services )or e>ample. /7m not re)errin4 to an& partic!lar one 'eca!se t$ere are reall& new ones comin4 !p. / t$in1 t$at t$at will 'e an interestin4 space to watc$. Also li1e a virt!al 4ames t$at are inte4ratin4 virt!al c!rrencies. 0$at co!ld 'e ver& interestin4. / don7 t$in1 t$ose people will s$ow !p $ere so t$e& will '!ild somet$in4. p!t it o!t t$ere ma&'e care )or it ma&'e not.

AL %o w$ile / was $ere / saw at least t$ree doc!mentaries 'ein4 s$ot '& di))erent 4ro!ps. / don7t 1now i) an&'od& else $as seen it. t$ere7s a doc!mentar& a'o!t competitive scra''le pla&ers called Word Wars t$at came o!t a co!ple &ears a4o. Has an&'od& seen t$is<

% /7m not nerd& eno!4$ )or t$at '!t it so!nds awesome.

AL We went t$ro!4$ a period o) time. m& wi)e and /. w$o is m& actin4 en4ineer. W$ere we were watc$in4 a lot o) doc!mentaries 'eca!se watc$in4 an&t$in4 else was a little 'it. st!pid it seemed at t$e time. A4ain it7s one o) t$ose t$in4s w$ere t$e s!'3ect almost doesn7t matter. W$at matters is t$at people $ave t$e passion and t$e& $ave t$e appreciation o) it. And i) &o! 4et eno!4$ o) t$ose people to4et$er t$en &o! can do reall& insane t$in4s. And a4ain t&in4 it 'ac1 to 'itcoin. / 'rin4 t$is !p 'eca!se t$e 4!& w$o made t$at doc!mentar& is now ma1in4 a doc!mentar& tal1in4 a'o!t essentiall& t$e Ban1 o) /nternational %ettlement. And all t$e vario!s wa&s it is in)l!encin4. / t$in1 $e said t$e title is called W$o Wants to 'e a 0rillionaire. =r somet$in4 li1e t$at. And it7s a'o!t 'itcoin and 'itcoin is t$e contin!it& t$at ties it all to4et$er. 0ies to4et$er $ow t$ee decisions are made on a 4lo'al scale and $ow. so an&wa&s. 0$at was one o) t$em. t$ere were a co!ple ot$ers. t$is one called somet$in4 a'o!t t$e revol!tion. 0$ose 4!&s were aro!nd a lot. 20 was $ere e>tensivel& doin4 interviews.

% 8ea$. t$e& 4ot Andreas Antonopolo!s on camera. And $e said $e didn7t pimp t$e podcast.

AL =$. $e didn7t pimp t$e podcast. 0$e& 4ot me on and all / did was pimp t$e podcast.

AP

0$e rise and rise o) 'itcoin will 'e cool too. %o t$ere are 6erman 4!&s doin4 a 4reat 'itcoin doc!mentar& as well. 0$e& are 4oin4 across road. / t$in1 t$e& co!ldn7t attend t$e con)erence 'eca!se o) t$eir lac1in4 donations. so ma&'e i) &o!7re $ere. &o! s$o!ld 4et to t$e'itcoindoc!mentar&.or4 t$e& are 4reat 4!&s. &o! s$o!ld s!pport t$em. AL 8es. w$at was t$e 52L a4ain< AP / t$in1 it was t$e'itcoindoc!mentar&.or4. AL t$e'itcoindoc!mentar&.or4. =G. 4reat. we7ll $ave to c$ec1 t$at o!t. Aid &o! 4!&s watc$ t$e 1e&note< % No. AP No. % / was at t$e 'oot$ t$at / was wor1in4 at wit$ t$ese non#pro)it or4ani;ations. and it was pac1ed d!rin4 t$e w$ole 1e&note. / co!ldn7t 4et awa&. AL %o. / watc$ed t$e 1e&note. and it was pain)!l and / !nderstand w$& it too1 me a w$ile to 4et it / !nderstand w$& t$e )o!ndation c$ose to )eat!re t$e Win1levoss twins as t$e 1e&note spea1ers. even t$o!4$ t$e& didn7t deliver a ver& 4ood speec$ '& an& real standard. '!t it7s 'eca!se t$e& 'rin4 to t$e mainstream press almost a sense o) le4itimac&. 'eca!se )or some reason. $avin4 a lot o) mone&. re4ardless o) $ow &o! 4ot t$at mone&. is a so!rce o) 'ein4 Hri4$tI in o!r partic!lar c!lt!re. / don7t a4ree wit$ t$at. and / t$in1 t$at. )rom t$e perspective o) it 'ein4 a 1e&note speec$. it was a ver& poor c$oice. '!t )rom an optics perspective loo1in4 at it t$ro!4$ t$e lens o) t$e

mainstream media once &o! start readin4 t$e covera4e. / read a stor& on "#NE0 and somew$ere else too and t$e& C!oted ma&'e two sentences )rom t$e tal1. '!t it was all a'o!t t$e )act t$at t$ese people were investin4 mone& into it. Now. t$at 'ein4 said. t$e wa& t$e&7re investin4 mone& into it is one o) t$e ver& )ew wa&s t$at / le4itimatel& consider $oardin4 'eca!se t$eir w$ole strate4& was to '!& 'itcoins. stic1 t$em onto )las$ drives. and p!t t$em into distri'!ted 'an1s7 sa)e deposits aro!nd t$e co!ntr&J w$ic$ is 4reat and all. '!t it ma1es it impossi'le )or &o! to ever spend it. so t$ere7s not even reall& t$e c$ance o) t$at $appenin4. and / t$in1 t$at t$at7s a little 'it d!m'. % Well. on t$e ot$er $and. it drives t$e price o) 'itcoins !p # AP / consider t$at le4itimate. 'eca!se ri4$t now s!re. &o! can '!& &o!r pi;;a online. ma&'e. '!t &o!7re not '!&in4 a 4reat deal o) propert& t$e& can certainl& tr& to invest in 'itcoin '!sinesses. and t$at7s # AL Well. t$e&7ve done t$at. AP 0$e&7ll certainl& do t$at. AL B!t a4ain. t$e& $ave a real advanta4e it7s one o) t$ose t$in4s w$ere 'eca!se 'itcoin is mone&. i) 'itcoin s!cceeds. an&'od& w$o $olds a lot o) 'itcoin s!cceeds. so )rom t$at perspective. / t$in1 it7s val!a'le to t$em. '!t /7m sa&in4 t$at as a service to as 'ein4 KanL act!al part o) t$e comm!nit& / )eel li1e it almost isolates &o! w$en &o! sa& H=G. well /7ve made m& investment. and it7s 4oin4 awa&. loc1ed in a loc1 'o>. and we7ll loo1 at it in )o!r &ears.I 0$at means t$at t$ose are o!t o) circ!lation # &o!7re ri4$t. it drives t$e price $i4$er # '!t it doesn7t $elp an&'od& w$o7s tr&in4 to '!ild t$e mar1et.

% Well. '!t it 1inda does. 'eca!se it 4ives p!'licit& to 'itcoin. / don7t t$in1 loo1in4 at it )rom t$e perspective o) Hdoes it $elp t$e comm!nit&<I is w$ere t$e&7re comin4 )rom. '!t t$at7s )ine. 'eca!se it7s t$eir mone&. 8o! co!ld ar4!e a'o!t $ow t$e& 4ot t$at mone& t$e& pro'a'l& didn7t reall& wor1 )or it # AL Well. t$e& s!ed some'od& )or it. so t$at7s val!a'le in o!r societ& # % / t$in1 people reall& 4ripe a'o!t t$at. B!t !ltimatel&. i) it7s some'od& 'itcoins. w$atever t$e& wanna do wit$ t$emJ /7m not $ere to tell t$em w$at to do. AL Well. t$e& $ad to '!& t$e 'itcoins )rom some'od&. so / 4!ess w$atever t$eir investment meant act!all& went 'ac1 into some'od&7s poc1ets w$o was $oldin4 'itcoins 'e)ore. %. : 8ea$. and some'od& $ad to a4ree to sell t$em. so t$e&7ve named t$eir price and t$e& 4ot it t$at was a vol!ntar& transaction. so /7m not a'o!t to 4et in t$e middle o) t$at # AL ?air eno!4$. % =ne t$in4 / $eard a'o!t t$eir speec$ was t$at t$e& said Hit7s time to come to t$e )eds and tr& to 4et t$em to re4!late 'itcoinI. AL Well. t$at was a 'i4 t$in4 $ere. t$ere were a lot o) people representin4 t$e it7s not reall& li'ertarian. it7s almost li1e anarc$o#capitalist viewpoint o) re4!lation. w$ic$ is H4et t$e $ell o!tI. % 8ea$. t$at7s me. / a4ree.

AL And t$en t$ere7s t$e ot$er camp. t$at7s li1e Ht$is is 4onna $appen one wa& or anot$er. wit$ or wit$o!t !s. so it7s 'etter i) we7re in a conversation t$an notI. B!t %tep$anie. /7m c!rio!s Ka'o!tL w$at &o! t$in1 to a certain e>tent. isn7t participatin4 in t$e s&stem le4itimi;in4< %a&in4 t$at H&es. re4!lators. &o! $ave a!t$orit& over t$isI # is t$at a positive t$in4. or is t$at a ne4ative t$in4. or do &o! t$in1 t$at it7s # % =$. ne4ative # t$e onl& t$in4 t$e& co!ld possi'l& do to $elp 'itcoin is to 4et o!t o) it. and / can 1inda !nderstand. or relate. to t$ese companies w$o K$aveL invested a lot into 'itcoin start# !p '!sinesses. or w$atever. and t$e&7re !ncertain. and t$e&7re a)raid. 'eca!se w$at t$e&7re a)raid o) is t$at t$ere7s 4onna 'e some 1ind o) new re4!lation t$at comes down t$at7s reall& 4onna $!rt t$eir '!siness. t$at t$e&7re 4onna $ave no sa& over and t$at s!c1s w$en &o!7ve invested a lot o) time into a start# !p. %o / 4et w$& t$e& want it to $appen. and t$e& want to $ave a sa& in it. and t$e& want some clarit& a'o!t w$at7s 4onna 'e reC!ired o) t$em. 'eca!se t$e& see it as inevita'le. '!t a4ain. / t$in1 t$e&7re missin4 t$e point t$at t$e 'est t$in4 t$at t$e )eds co!ld do is step o!t o) t$e wa&. And $ow are t$e& act!all& 4oin4 to even re4!late 'itcoin )!nctionall&< /t7s one o) t$ose t$in4s t$at 3!st lends itsel) to decentrali;ation. AP / t$in1. t$e centrali;ed e>c$an4es t$e& are de)initel& a 4ood pla&4ro!nd )or t$e re4!lators. and &o! s$o!ld stic1 t$em to t$eir pla&4ro!nd and leave t$e rest o) !s alone w$o are doin4 !se)!l wor1. AL /sn7t it almost a lose#lose sit!ation. t$o!4$. )or t$ose companies< Beca!se / !nderstand w$at &o!7re sa&in4. '!t t$en. on t$e )lipside o) it. let7s sa& t$at t$e re4!lations do 4et solidi)ied. and t$e&7re 4ood. and t$e& loo1 li1e it7s 4onna 'e permissi'le t$en doesn7t t$at mean t$at t$e le4ac& 'an1in4

s&stem comes in and sa&s H=G. well. i) it7s le4al. t$en s!re. we7re 4onna provide t$is serviceI. and )ran1l& o'solete Bit/nstant. 'eca!se Bit/nstant or BitPa& or reall& an& o) t$ese t$in4s. t$e&7re reall& all wor1aro!nd companies 'ased on t$e idea t$at t$e le4ac& s&stem won7t inter)ace wit$ !s. so t$ere)ore we7re 4onna create t$is s&stem w$ere &o! 3!mp t$ro!4$ all t$ese $oops # % Well. it wo!ld enric$ t$e entrenc$ed interest. and t$e 'i4 '!sinesses. and it wo!ld impoveris$ t$e 'itcoin start!ps and t$e small 4!&s. and a4ain. / t$in1 t$ese 'itcoin start!ps w$o are as1in4 )or re4!lation are 1inda missin4 t$e point t$at t$e& came a'o!t and t$e& spr!n4 !p in an environment t$at was totall& )ree. and t$e less )ree it 4ets. t$e more di))ic!lt it7s 4oin4 to 'e )or new 'itcoin start!ps to come o!t. and )or )ran1l& tec$nolo4& to p!s$ )orward. and new tec$nolo4ies to come o!t. AP / a4ree. &ea$. and / t$in1 t$at it7s a ver& val!a'le t$in4 to $ave 'itcoin as a standalone c!rrenc& t$at7s not even reco4ni;ed as a c!rrenc&. so it7s 3!st Kt$atL we are sendin4 t$ese )!nn& internet to1ens. and on top o) t$at &o! can do all 1inds o) innovative new services. and / t$in1 t$at7s reall& 4oin4 to provide a val!e )or $!manit&. /t7s )!nn& to sa& it li1e t$at. % Ao &o! wanna tal1 a'o!t ot$er t$emes at t$e con)erence. an&t$in4 li1e t$at< AL 8ea$. did &o! identi)& an&< % 8ea$. / 4!ess one t$in4 t$at came o!t to me was it7s 'een a w$ile. at least in t$e 5%. since t$ere7s 'een a period o) real economic prosperit& and / de)initel& 4ot t$is sense o). almost reminiscent o) t$e dot com era. and in )act 'itcoin $as 'een compared t$is wee1end to t$e internet in 199:J we7re at t$e

'leedin4 ed4e o) tec$nolo4&. we7re t$e )irst adopters. and we7re 4onna all ma1e 'an1 o!t o) t$is. or 'ecome reall& s!ccess)!l. or 'e reall& )amo!s. or w$atever and people were part&in4 already 'eca!se o) t$at. and 'asicall& e>pectin4 t$is to $appen. %o w$en / see t$at. / s$are in t$at 3!'ilation. totall&. and / t$in1 t$is is $!4e it7s a $!4e deal. o'vio!sl&. /7m also a little ca!tio!s. 'eca!se / 1now not all o) t$ese 'itcoin start!ps are 4onna s!cceed some start!ps do )ail # AL Some start!ps do )ail. $a$a. % ost start!ps do )ail. 90MF AP A @0M c$ance o) e>c$an4es )ailin4. AL @0M< Now t$at7s a )a1e n!m'er. 0$e& cited t$at n!m'er. it was H+-M o) e>c$an4es )ail and ta1e mone& wit$ t$emI. '!t t$ere7s a :-M mar4in o) error. % %o it co!ld 'e an&w$ere )rom :0#B0M< AL E>actl&. :0#B0MF AP / $ave some practical e>perience wit$ t$at. A lot o) m& mone& 4ot 'lown awa&. AL =$. t$at7s too 'ad. w$ere were &o! in< AP =$. well. 1ind o). all o) t$em< / t$in1 it7s m& 3o' to 1now t$e 'itcoin space. / tr& all t$e t$in4s. %o / 4ot s$!t down '& all t$e t$in4s. o) co!rse. Not all t$e mone&. o) co!rse. 0$e most recent one was 'itcoin:+.com t$at was r!n '& a 6erman 4!&. '!t / ost start!ps do )ail.

t$in1 t$ere is a decent c$ance t$at some da& / mi4$t 4et some o) m& )iat mone& t$at was tied !p 'ac1. % / $ope so. AP 8ea$. / $ope so tooF % 0$ere7s a lot o) ris1 in t$is space. and w$en &o! see t$e 'i4 s!ccesses and &o! see t$e 'i4 'ooms. it7s eas& to )or4et a'o!t t$e ris1 t$at7s t$ere. and to 1eep a perspectiveJ it7s eas& to 4et s!per#e>cited and sa& Ho$ &ea$. we7re 4!aranteed to s!cceedI. '!t t$at7s not t$e realit& a lot can $appen and t$at7s =G. 'eca!se !ltimatel& we7re in a process o) 4rowt$J we7re in a process o) )i4!rin4 o!t w$at t$e mar1et act!all& wants. in terms o) 'itcoin. and w$at 1inds o) new tec$nolo4ies can 'e 'ro!4$t to t$e )ore and t$at7s =G. t$at7s all t$e process o) 4rowt$. 0$ere7s a little 'it o) creative destr!ction in t$ere and it7s !n)ort!nate w$en t$at $appens not#creativel&. 'eca!se o) re4!lators. and t$at7s w$at we7ve seen a lot o) t$e time. B!t t$ere7s also $ac1ers. t$ere7s t$e)tsJ people $ave to learn t$in4s a'o!t sec!rit& wit$ 'itcoins t$e $ard wa&. and t$at does $appen. too. 0$at7s a le4itimate t$in4. %o / don7t 1now. / 4!ess it7s 4reat to $ave parties w$ere t$ere are )ree drin1sJ / love t$at to $appen. it7s 4reat to see people wal1in4 aro!nd in s!its &o! 1now. &o!n4. attractive 4!&s. and t$ere7s a lot o) 4!&s $ere '!t we do $ave to 1eep t$in4s in perspective a little 'it. too. 'eca!se we don7t want to 'e in a '!''le and not 1now it. and no'od& $as an& cl!e. AP / t$in1 we7re not in a '!''le / t$in1 t$e potential is $!4e. we7re 4oin4 to see a lot more. AL Are we tal1in4 a'o!t a price '!''le. or are we tal1in4 a'o!t a realit& '!''le<

% /7m 1inda tal1in4 a'o!t 'ot$. / mean. 7ca!se t$e price re)lects t$e realit& and t$e attit!de a'o!t 'itcoin to a certain e>tent# AL Not $ere. it doesn7t / didn7t $ear one person tal1in4 a'o!t t$e price. t$is entire con)erence. Aid &o!< % No. not reall&. act!all&. e>cept at t$e Lamass! mac$ine# AL =$. ri4$t. ri4$t. w$ere t$e&7re doin4 e>c$an4es. 8ea$. o) co!rse. '!t o!tside o) t$at. it wasn7t li1e people were 4oin4 aro!nd. 4oin4 Ho$ man. can &o! 'elieve it7s !p to N1:@. t$is is so )antastic. we7re all 4onna 'e ric$FI # / mean no. no'od& reall& cares a'o!t t$at. we7re all tal1in4 a'o!t t$e companies t$at are 'ein4 '!ilt aro!nd it to ma1e it 'etter. and to ma1e it easier. and to ma1e it cleaner. % Well. / 4!ess w$at / was re)errin4 to w$en / said H'!''leI was 3!st t$e amo!nt o) vent!re capital mone& t$at7s )lowin4 into 'itcoin start!ps ri4$t now some o) t$at is not 4onna s!cceed. some o) t$ose companies are 4onna 4o '!st )or w$atever reason. ri4$t< AL B!t a4ain. to t$at point. t$e w$ole vent!re model w$en it comes to t$is# % #&ea$. it '!ilds in ris1# AL #well &ea$. it '!ilds in a huge amo!nt o) )ail!reJ t$e standard model )or t$is t&pe o) compan& is: &o! wo!ld ma1e si>teen investments. )i)teen o) t$em are s!pposed to )ail. and t$e one t$at s!cceeds is t$e one t$at ma1es &o! cra;&. cra;& ric$ 'e&ond &o!r wildest dreams. %o on t$e vent!re side. we

certainl& did see some o) t$at. and t$ere were a lot o) people wanderin4 aro!nd. loo1in4 into places. tr&in4 to )i4!re o!t w$at was 4oin4 on / t$in1 it7s t$e attit!de t$at7s most important. We $ad a vent!re 4!& come to o!r )irst meet!p on ?rida&. and it was reall& interestin4 tal1in4 to $im 'eca!se $e $ad 3!st le)t $is compan& and a4ain. we7re not 4onna 4et into names '!t $e $ad a co!ple o) $!ndred t$o!sand dollars t$at $e was wantin4 to t$row at pro3ects. and w$en / tal1ed to $im on $is wa& o!t a co!ple o) $o!rs a4o. $e7s li1e Ht$e t$in4 / reali;ed is t$at a )ew $!ndred t$o!sand dollars is 3!st not eno!4$ to 'e a'le to do pro3ects and spread t$e ris1 aro!ndI. %o w$at $e was 4oin4 to do was. $e was )l&in4 'ac1 immediatel& to $is old vent!re )irm. and was 4oin4 to sa& H$e&. let7s t$row a co!ple o) million dollars at t$is pro3ectI # and a4ain. even )rom t$e vent!re space. a co!ple o) million dollars is not$in4. t$at7s li1e a co!ple o) people c$ippin4 in on t$at side. w$ereas &o! $ave t$ese 4iant )!nds. AP %tep$anie. &o! were comparin4 t$at to t$e dot com '!''le. / t$in1 t$e dot com '!''le onl& reall& too1 o)) once ever&t$in4 was traded on t$e New 8or1 %toc1 E>c$an4e. and / t$in1 we are wa&. wa&. )ar apart )rom $avin4 t$at in t$e 'itcoin space. so t$ere is no mass appeal spi1e w$en ever&one7s t$rowin4 mone& at t$e 'itcoin stoc1s. AL And t$e ot$er t$in4. o) co!rse. t$at7s di))erent )rom t$e dot com era is t$at t$e moneti;ation wit$ 'itcoin is '!ilt in so a4ain. &o! $ave t$is pro'lem w$ere wit$ t$e dot com. ever&one was so e>cited a'o!t 4ettin4 t$e e&e'alls t$at t$at was t$e )oc!s. and so it7s li1e ?ace'oo1 it7s li1e. Hwe 3!st need to 4et t$e !sers. and t$en we7ll worr& a'o!t $ow to moneti;e it laterI # '!t t$e pro'lem is t$at w$en &o! '!ild &o!r '!siness aro!nd not moneti;in4. wit$ t$e idea t$at &o!7ll do it later. w$at &o! wind !p doin4 is Kt$atL as &o! tr& to moneti;e. ever& sin4le t$in4 &o! do p!s$es !sers awa& )rom &o!. 'eca!se t$e service is 4ettin4 worse instead o) 4ettin4 'etter. so wit$ 'itcoin a4ain. it $as ot$er pro'lems / t$in1 t$at t$e re4!lator& ris1 is

meanin4)!l '!t it doesn7t $ave t$at pro'lem. 0$e moneti;ation is act!all& t$ere )rom min!te one. 'eca!se it7s mone&. AP A'sol!tel&. % m. '!t t$ere are people w$o spec!late on 'itcoin 'eca!se it7s also a commodit&. AL =G. '!t t$at7s m& point. t$at t$at7s di))erent. 8o! can spec!late on it &o! co!ldn7t spec!late on t$e internet companies !ntil t$e& were on t$e stoc1 e>c$an4e. '!t 'eca!se 'itcoin is mone&. it7s )loatin4 val!e. relativel& spea1in4. A.P. And it7s an E0? on t$e w$ole 'itcoin space. AL 8ea$. t$at7s e>actl& ri4$t. 0$at. o) co!rse. is t$e ot$er t$in4. is t$at i) &o!7re loo1in4 at t$is )rom a ris1 perspective. solel&. '!&in4 'itcoin is s!c$ a sa)er investment. 'eca!se i) &o!7re investin4 in companies. and 'itcoin )ails. all t$e 'itcoin companies )ailJ '!t i) &o!7re investin4 in 'itcoin. it doesn7t matter i) t$e 'itcoin companies )ail. it 3!st matters i) t$ere7s adoption overall. and &o! still $ave t$at e>ponential m!ltiplier e))ect t$at 1ic1s in. A4ain. it7s 3!st one o) t$ose t$in4s w$ere 'eca!se o) w$at is is and $ow it operates. it 'rea1s a lot o) t$e r!les 'eca!se t$e moneti;ation is alread& '!ilt inJ &o! don7t need to worr& a'o!t t$at part o) t$em all &o! need to worr& a'o!t ot$er t$in4s. '!t not t$at. AP %o now we7re tal1in4 a'o!t t$e price all t$e time. ri4$t< % 8o! 1now. / $aven7t c$ec1ed t$e price in a co!ple o) da&s. /7m 4onna 4o to m& 'itcoin Paranoid app / did notice t$at a)ter t$e 6i4a= meet!p on 0$!rsda& ni4$t. w$ic$ was a smas$in4 s!ccess. t$ere was a '!mp in price o) a'o!t )ive '!c1s o)

'itcoins. / don7t 1now i) t$at7s meanin4)!l. '!t / t$o!4$t ma&'e it was. AL %omet$in4 else t$at de)initel& is tr!e $ere is Kt$atL t$is is an incredi'l& m!ltic!lt!ral event. 0$ere were people )l&in4 in )rom all over the world. % / love t$e accents. /ncl!din4 &o!rs. AndreasF A.L: 0$e accents were 4reat. We $ad s!c$ )!n tal1in4 wit$. / wanted to sa& a Hset o) 6ree1sI # t$e& were act!all& a co!ple o) reall& nice 6ree1 4!&s. w$o $adn7t 1nown eac$ ot$er. and we saw t$is act!all& / saw t$is w$ole 4ro!p o) "anadians. ri4$t. w$o didn7t 1now eac$ ot$er 'e)ore t$e t$in4. '!t 'eca!se t$e& were "anadians. wo!nd !p $an4in4 o!t to4et$er )or most o) t$e t$in4 and 3!st 4oin4 aro!nd )rom t$in4 to t$in4. Act!all&. Peter A!c$ins1&. one o) t$e contri'!tors )or t$e s$ow. 1ind o) 4lommed onto t$is 4ro!p # % / didn7t 4et to meet $imF He m!st $ave 'een wit$ t$e "anadians t$e w$ole time... AL 8o! didn7t 4et to meet $im< Peter7s a 4reat 4!&. man. B!t it was t$e same t$in4 wit$ t$ere were a co!ple o) 6ree1 4!&s w$o $ad met over t$e co!rse o) t$e t$in4. and all $ad pro3ects t$at were relevant to eac$ ot$er. and so t$en &o! $oo1 !p $ereJ and so even t$o!4$ it7s t$is t$in4 $appenin4 in America. t$e&7re all 4oin4 'ac1 to 6reece t$ro!4$ t$eir vario!s c$annels at some point in t$e near )!t!re. and t$e& all are colla'oratin4 now to '!ild tools. and seminars. and trainin4s to essentiall& 4et t$is st!)) into t$e wild. /t7s ver& e>citin4. 0$e ot$er t$in4 t$at 3!mped o!t to me is t$at it was so m!c$ less a'o!t t$e tal1s. and so m!c$ more a'o!t t$e attendees. Nearl& ever& sin4le person t$at / tal1ed to and reall&. towards t$e end o) it. / reali;ed t$at / was missin4 o!t '& not introd!cin4

m&sel) to ever& sin4le person t$at / saw 'eca!se ever&'od& $as a pro3ect. even t$e people w$o were $ere as attendees were )!nctionall& not attendees. t$e& s$o!ld7ve 'een spea1ers. AP A'sol!tel&. &ea$. %o people came to o!r 'oot$J almost ever&one co!ld ma1e a speec$ o) t$eir own a'o!t w$at t$e& are doin4 in t$e 'itcoin space. and / t$in1 t$ere were onl& one or two people w$o 3!st said Hwell. /7m interested in t$e w$ole t$in4I. '!t a $!ndred people# % / t$in1 t$at7s it. it attracts c!rio!s. active#minded people. and t$e& all t$en. as a res!lt. once t$e& !nderstand eno!4$ want to $ave t$eir own pro3ects. and t$e& do. 'eca!se not$in47s stoppin4 t$em. 'eca!se it7s so eas& to 3!st start one o) &o!r own. AL And t$ere7s so m!c$ to doF 8o! can loo1 at t$is )rom so man& di))erent an4les. and ever&'od& loo1s at it and sees somet$in4 a little 'it di))erent. 'eca!se comin4 )rom o!r own conte>t. &o!7re a'le to 3!st appl& it to w$atever t$e $ec1 &o!7re alread& doin4 and see t$e wa&s it ma1es it easier. or 'etter. or more e))icientJ it 3!st c$an4es t$in4s. and it7s reall& power)!l. % Anot$er t$in4 t$is is 4onna 'e 1ind o) meta. 'eca!se we7re doin4 a podcast a'o!t t$e podcast. '!t 3!st to toot o!r own $orn a little 'it / was st!nned at t$e n!m'er o) people # we7ve onl& 'een pod castin4 )or a mont$. Adam # AL 8ea$. 3!st a mont$. % #and / was st!nned at t$e n!m'er o) people w$o a) $ad $eard o) o!r s$ow. ') $ad listened to o!r s$ow. c) reco4ni;ed me wit$o!t me 1nowin4 w$o t$e& wereF Aid &o! $ave t$e same e>perience<

AL 8ea$. / did. AP / t$in1 &o!r podcast was wa& overd!e. ='vio!sl&. 'eca!se o) m& accent. / won7t do an En4lis$ podcast all t$e time. We were as1ed m!ltiple times. Hswitc$ to En4lis$F 8o! will 4et s!c$ an a!dienceF 0$ere is no En4lis$ podcast. w$at7s 4oin4 on<I # and &o! were 3!st ri4$t )or t$e time. AL 0$an1 &o! )or sa&in4 t$at. Andreas. =ne o) t$e most )!n e>periences t$at / $ad $ere was 'ein4 a'le to meet all t$ese people w$o. /7ve 'een readin4 t$eir st!)) )or &ears. and / $ave no idea w$at t$e& loo1 li1e / o)tentimes didn7t 1now t$eir real name '!t 0witter was s!c$ a tool )or )i4!rin4 o!t w$o people were. coordinatin4 wit$ t$at. and t$en sc$ed!lin4 t$e meet!p. / 4ot to meet one o) m& personal $eroes. (e))re& Pa!l. w$o 4oes '& %nea1 online $e7s t$e 4!& w$o did a tal1 at """ 'ac1 in :010. / t$in1 it was# % W$at7s """< AL """ is t$e "$aos "omm!nication "on4ress. % /t7s "+. AL An&wa&s. it7s a 6erman &earl& seminar t$at7s 'asicall& on in)ormation sec!rit& and st!)) li1e t$at. /t7s 1inda 4ee1&. it7s act!all& s!per reall&#tec$nical 4ee1&. and /7m not t$at tec$nical. as )ar as 'ein4 a'le to loo1 at code and sa& H=G. well / see w$at t$at doesI. '!t / li1e to $ear people w$o 1now w$at it does tal1 a'o!t it. 'eca!se t$at $elps me 'e a'le to !nderstand it / don7t !nderstand e>actl& $ow it wor1s. '!t it7s li1e a dollarJ &o! don7t need to !nderstand $ow a dollar wor1s in order to 1now t$at it7s !se)!l. in order to 1now its p!rpose. %o t$at side o) it

was reall& e>citin4. 4ettin4 to tal1 to t$ese people and t$en on t$e ot$er side o) it. $avin4 people come !p to me and sa& H/7m $ere 'eca!se o) &o!. / came to t$is s$ow 'eca!se o) &o!r s$ow and t$e ideas t$at it spar1ed in m& $eadI # 'eca!se t$at7s li1e m& dream. & dream is to $elp people $ave ideas a'o!t t$is. 'eca!se / $ave so man& ideas a'o!t t$is. and / 1now t$at /7m not t$e onl& one. and t$at7s ver& e>citin4 to me. %o. ot$er people w$o we met... act!all&. /7m not even 4onna tr& to list t$em. t$ere7s too man& to list. % 8ea$. t$ere are too man& too list. AL 0oo man&. / don7t wanna leave an&'od& o)). % %o man& o) t$em were reall& ama;in4. / )elt li1e startin4 at o!r meet!p on ?rida&. w$en we $ad listeners come and meet !s. / reall& connected wit$ a lot o) people t$ere. and t$en )ollowin4 t$at. at t$e con)erence. K/L met a lot o) cool people t$at / )elt li1e / $ad a lot in common wit$. so t$at was awesome. AL 0$is was an incredi'le e>perience. and / do not travel. 0$at is not somet$in4 t$at / en3o& doin4. / didn7t $ave to travel an&w$ere near as )ar as most people t$at7s t$e onl& reason w$& / came '!t a)ter t$is e>perience. i) t$is is w$at 'itcoin con)erences are 4onna 'e li1e. t$en /7m 4onna 4et on a plane and /7m 4onna )l& w$erever t$e $ec1 we need to 4o ne>t time somet$in4 li1e t$is $appens. AP %o t$en. &o! s$o!ld come to Oienna. AL / 1now. / 1now. / don7t wanna 4o to 6erman&. / don7t wanna 4o to E!rope...

% Well. &o! don7t $ave to 4o to 6erman&. 'eca!se Oienna7s in A!striaF AL / don7t wanna 4o to E52=PEF B!t it7s =G. m& wi)e7s 4onna wor1 at (incomprehensible, sorry) )or a w$ile. so we mi4$t )ind o!rselves t$ere. We mi4$t )ind o!rselves in New 8or1. too. /7m )indin4 t$at / wanna 4o to t$at. so we can $it t$at to4et$er. 0$at7ll 'e )!n. % "ool. A.A.: ?rom 1st to -rd Novem'er. t$ere will 'e t$e !ns&stem.net. / t$in1 t$e )oc!s will 'e more political aspects o) 'itcoin. and anarc$ism. -A printin4. and# AL Well. t$e -A printin4 /7m interested in. '!t it7s t$e tec$nolo4&. / t$in1. and t$e pro3ects t$at are 'ased aro!nd K'itcoinL t$e politics. $onestl&. / )eel li1e t$e more we )oc!s on t$at. t$e less !se)!l it is 'eca!se it draws s!c$ ne4ative attention to t$e w$ole t$in4. AA 8ea$. t$at7s tr!e. / wo!ld li1e more '!siness#oriented st!)). '!t w$o 1nows. it7s 4oin4 to 'e a lon4 time !ntil Novem'er. we7ll see $ow t$at develops. AL Well. a4ain. t$ere are ot$er s$ows. t$ere are ot$er con)erences t$at are 4onna 'e startin4 !p 'e)ore t$at. so / t$in1 t$ere7s at least one or two 'e)ore Oienna. %o t$e 'itcoin con)erence ecos&stem. t$is was reall& a proo) o) concept t$at now is t$e time. and t$e people are $ere. and t$e colla'orations are $ere m& 4od. t$e colla'orations. / 4ave a tal1 on content moneti;ation and it was not to a terri'l& lar4e room. '!t / $ad pro'a'l& 1@ people )ollow me o!t. and + o) t$em wanted to '!ild t$e services t$at / was sa&in4 we s$o!ld '!ild.

% =$. li1e w$at< AL Well. a4ain. m& )oc!s $as 'een on a co!ple o) t$in4s. =ne t$in4 we7ve done wit$ t$e s$ow is t$at we $ave t$ese tip wid4ets. 0$e pro'lem is t$at t$e tip wid4ets are 1ind o) 'ro1en. t$e& don7t reall& wor1 )or ever&'od&. and even )or t$e people t$e& do wor1 )or. t$e& co!ld 'e improved in a n!m'er o) wa&s. li1e ma1in4 it so t$at we co!ld $ave di))erent addresses on eac$ o) t$e sites t$at t$e s$ow is posted to. and t$en w$en donations come in. we7re a'le to see t$ose. We can do t$at now. '!t o!r pro'lem is t$at o!r wid4et onl& displa&s one address at a time. so we need a wa& )or it to ta1e m!ltiple addresses. s!m t$em to4et$er and displa& t$e total )or t$e s$ow. '!t still 'e a'le to 4ive !s in)ormation a'o!t w$ere t$e tips are comin4 )rom. AP 0$at so!nds li1e a 4reat implementation )or HA wallets. act!all&. % =$. ri4$t. &ea$. AP 8o! can do t$at wit$o!t HA wallets. as well. % B!t &o! $ad someone o))er to '!ild t$at. AL We $ad someone o))er to '!ild t$at. nice. '!t now we7re tal1in4 wit$ t$e '!siness development 4!& at ?lattr. w$ic$ is a micro transaction tippin4 service. 'asicall& # % 8ea$. /7m )amiliar. t$e& !se ?2Ns t$ere. ri4$t< AL 0$e& do !se ?2Ns now. '!t t$e&7re loo1in4 to o'solete t$emselves a4ain. / can7t 4et into too man& details. '!t t$ere7s

a lot o) movement in t$is space ri4$t now. and / t$in1 we7re seein4 t$e end o) t$ese proprietar& tippin4 services. or t$ese proprietar& / don7t wanna name names. '!t t$e realit& is. plat)orms t$at tr& to intercept t$e val!e tr& to sa& H$e&. come and $ave a wallet on o!r plat)ormI # / t$in1 t$ose are 4oin4 t$e wa& o) t$e dinosa!rs. 'eca!se t$e&7re 3!st totall& !nnecessar&. AP Well. ?lattr in partic!lar. / t$in1 t$at $as a !se in 'itcoin. W$en we started o!t tal1in4 a'o!t 'itcoin. a lot o) people said H'!ild a 'itcoin ?lattr replacementI. 'eca!se it7s act!all& ver& rewardin4 )or podcasters to $ave mont$l& donations in a re4!lar wa&. and )or t$e !sers it7s li1e t$e& are allocatin4 t$eir c!lt!ral '!d4et. so t$e& sa& H=G. / want t$e )i>ed amo!ntI. and t$en t$e& are spreadin4 t$is amo!nt eac$ mont$. so t$e& don7t $ave to ta1e care o) all t$e divisions and microtransactions and so on. %o t$e& 3!st $ave to $ave s!c$ that some o) t$em are removed and some o) t$em are (indaudible). / t$in1 t$at7s a !se)!l service. even wit$ 'itcoin. 'eca!se &o! don7t want to send o!t li1e a $!ndred di))erent donations to all t$e tin& t$in4s &o!7re listenin4 and all 'loc1s &o!7re readin4. % 8ea$. / was 4onna sa&. is it too earl& to start a travel )!nd< /) t$e listeners en3o&ed o!r covera4e o) t$is con)erence. t$e& co!ld send !s to ot$er con)erences. somet$in4 li1e t$at. AL / t$in1 t$at7s de)initel& somet$in4 we s$o!ld 'e tal1in4 a'o!t. B!t t$e 4ood news is t$at in addition to $avin4 listener s!pport. it loo1s li1e we7re 4onna 'e a'le to $ave sponsor s!pport. 'eca!se a4ain. t$at was t$e ot$er t$in4 $ere t$is is t$e start o) somet$in4 'i4. and it7s t$e start o) somet$in4 'i4 )or 'itcoin. '!t we7re ridin4 t$e wave $ere. /n t$e press room. one o) t$e ot$er o!t)its t$at was t$ere is called B0"(o!rnal. 0$e& don7t e>ist &et. t$e& start e>istin4 ne>t wee1. %o t$ere7s competition movin4 into t$e space. '!t at t$e same time. 3!st 'eca!se we $ave a mont$7s $ead start. it7s s!c$ an advanta4e. /t7s cra;&

$ow m!c$ o) an advanta4e doin4 t$e s$ow )or a mont$ $as 'een. 'eca!se it7s 4otten !s into so man& peoples7 $eads. / $ave a )eelin4 t$at over t$e ne>t co!ple o) mont$s. we7re 4onna 'e a'le to levera4e t$is into some reall& incredi'le. insi4$t)!l interviews t$at are 4onna 'low peoples7 minds. and it7s cra;&. 0$e people w$o are developin4 t$ese tec$nolo4ies and developin4 t$ese plat)orms $ave so m!c$ vision. and it7s reall& eas& to 4et st!c1 in an ec$o c$am'er and sa& Ho$ man. t$at7s a 4reat idea no. t$at7s a 4reat idea no. that's a 4reat ideaI '!t to a certain e>tent. t$e& are. Li1e / said in t$e 'e4innin4 o) t$is. w$en &o! t$row &o!rsel) entirel& into somet$in4. and &o! ma1e it all t$at &o! are. it7s $ard. 'eca!se &o! can )eel alone. And w$at t$is s$owed !s is t$at t$ere7s at least B00 o) t$e 1000 attendees $ere w$o are doin4 e>actl& t$e same t$in4. and wit$ so man& people C!ittin4 t$eir 3o's and )oc!sin4 all o) t$eir creative e))ort and all o) t$eir time onto t$ese properties and pro3ects. / don7t 1now w$at7s 4onna $appen. '!t it7s 4onna 'e ama;in4. AP / t$in1 we will see a world wit$ new services. and t$at7s 4reat. t$at7s evol!tion. /nd!strial revol!tion +.0 or somet$in4. AL %o t$at7s a'o!t all t$e time we $ave )or toni4$t. We7re 4oin4 on eleven o7 cloc1 and / certainl& $ave to 4et to 'ed. And / 1now t$at %tep$anie7s pro'a'l& still on New Hamps$ire time. so# % /7m on West "oast 0ime even w$en /7m on t$e east coast. / sta& !p late. AL Have &o! ad3!sted &et Andreas< AP / t$in1 / will 3!st s1ip a )ew ni4$ts. ma&'e. t$at will 'e )ine. AL Well. 4reat. t$is was t$e most )!n /7ve $ad in a lot o) &ears. And

/7ve covered a lot o) con)erences 'e)oreJ we7re doin4 t$is at t$e %an (ose "onvention "entre. / covered 6A". 6ame Aevelopers7 "onvention $ere )or a n!m'er o) &ears. and t$ere were e>ponentiall& less people $ere. and it was e>ponentiall& more interestin4 t$an /7ve ever seen it 'e)ore. %o t$at7s a'o!t it )or t$is episode o) Let7s 0al1 'itcoin. % 8o!r poor voice. Adam. /t so!nds li1e ra4. %o tiredF AL / $ave 'een tal1in4 non#stop )or da&s. /t7s cra;&. 'eca!se &o!7re 'o!ncin4 )rom $o!r#lon4 conversation to $o!r#lon4 conversation wit$ eac$ person. ( /7m 4onna 3!mp in. o!t o) t$e pean!t 4aller&. / can7t resist. AL /t7s (!stice $ere. (!stice# ( (Incomprehensible, likely surname) 0$e secret to con)erences is to s1ip all o) t$e tal1s. Aon7t watc$ t$em # t$e&7ll 'e on 8o!0!'e. a1e t$e personal connections. tal1 to people # 4et ?ace0ime. All t$ese tal1s t$e&7re a 'ait and switc$. t$e&7re an e>c!se )or !s to all come and $an4 o!t to4et$er. And it7s t$e personal connections t$at reall& ma1e t$ese con)erences val!a'le. AL 8ea$. / totall& a4ree. AP Now &o!7ve spoiled it. 8ea$. / a'sol!tel& a4ree. And &o! s$o!ld come to o!r 'oot$. &celi!m. ( 8o! $ave to $ave new !sers w$o don7t 1now t$at secret. so t$at

t$ere will 'e an a!dience )or t$e spea1ers. '!t t$e real secret is Hdon7t 4o to t$e tal1sI. 0al1 to people. eet people. AL / ca!4$t &o!r panel. %tep$anie. / ca!4$t (o$n Li4$t7s tal1. / ca!4$t t$e alt coin tal1 or t$e alt coin panel. w$ic$ was prett& interestin4J it $ad some reall& interestin4 c$aracters on it. And t$en / 4ave m& tal1 on content moneti;ation '!t / t$in1 'esides t$at. / didn7t see an&t$in4. B!t. &o! 1now. 8o!0!'e is a 4reat t$in4. AP 8o! can reall& see t$e evol!tion o) 'itcoin a little 'it in t$e con)erence evol!tion. / was at Pra4!e in :011. t$ere were. / t$in1 a $!ndred and )i)t& people t$ere. and t$ere were people comin4 )rom all over t$e world and t$en London. and t$en $ere. so it7s reall& 4ettin4 o)). 2eall& e>citin4. AL Aawn o) a 'rave new world. AP A'sol!tel&. AL 6oodni4$t. 0$an1s )or t!nin4 into t$is special episode o) Let7s 0al1 'itcoin. W$et$er &o! li1ed. loved or $ated t$e s$ow. we wanna 1now w$at &o! t$in1. Please send all listener male to adamPletstal1'itcoin.com. "ontent )or t$is episode was provided '& %tep$anie !rp$&. Andreas Petersson. and listener (!stice. !sic )or t$is episode was provided '& (ared 2!'ens. ?or lin1s to $is wor1. visit letstal1'itcoin.comQm!sic. We7ve 4ot lots o) content comin4 !p. '!t / can7t )or t$e li)e o) me tell &o! w$at7ll 'e o!t ne>t so /7ve decided to stop ma1in4 4!esses $ere !ntil we 4et t$e editorial calendar !p and )!nctional. 0$an1s so m!c$ )or &o!r s!pport. /) &o!7d li1e to donate to t$e s$ow. please visit www.letstal1'itcoin.com. %ee &o! ne>t time.