--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Anthony Marr <anthony_marr@yahoo.com> wrote:From: Anthony Marr <anthony_marr@yahoo.com>Subject: To Camille: My 10-point email to Francione and his replyTo: camille@negotiationisover.comCc: anthony-marr@hope-care.org, sbest1@elp.rr.comDate: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 2:24 PMCamille,Here is my 10-point letter and Francione's response to it.Anthony=================================================Dear sir,When I mentioned CCing or BCCing to friends, I was speaking it as a matter ofprinciple, and as a possibility. Did I in fact do it? No, with but oneexception. I did BCC it to my friend Dominique, who is a very discrete andtrustworthy person, who has committed to keeping the matter to herself. The onlydifference is that she did not participate in the discussion and was notconsidered to be a part of the show, otherwise she is no different from Adam andBob. Let me point out that you have let 2 persons (Adam and Bob) in on this, andI have only let one person (Dominique) in, so you beat me on this score. Anyhow,directly or indirectly, Ms. Marino did NOT hear it from me. Please make thispoint very clear to yourself.Anthony MarrAnimal Voices--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Gary L. Francione <gfrancione@earthlink.net> wrote:From: Gary L. Francione <gfrancione@earthlink.net>Subject: Re: To Professor FrancioneTo: anthony-marr@hope-care.orgCc: sbest1@elp.rr.com, "'Bob Torres'" <bob@rjtorres.net>, "'Adam Kochanowicz'"<adam@vegpage.com>Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:08 PMDear Anthony:I do not agree with salient parts of your narrative and the email exchanges areclear. Please do not read my not responding to any particular point as agreementon that point.I do want to address one thing you say because I find it shocking. Last night,when I saw the "Negotiation is Over" website, which contained blatantmisrepresentations of what we had discussed, I wrote to you and Best and you bothdenied having provided Marino any information. You stated that you had no "direct"contact with her and both of you claimed not to know how Marino learned of ourdiscussions (that she misrepresented in any event).

In this email, you acknowledge that you shared our emails or parts thereof withothers because we did not agree beforehand that they would not be shared. That isremarkable. So that is how Marino found out. You just BCC'd various people and itjust happened to get to her and she happened to misrepresent it and you happenedto do nothing to correct her misrepresentations. That's remarkable, Anthony. Foryour information, I only shared the emails with Bob and Adam and it would neverhave occurred to me to BCC emails, particularly if there was any chance that theywould be misrepresented by someone. Now I understand why you said that you had no"direct" contact with Marino. Your denial of providing this information to Marinowas, at best, disingenuous.I am sorry you wasted your time. I never asked you to expend any. My time is quitevaluable as well and I am done wasting it with you. I will not appear on your showbecause I do not trust you. Period. And this exchange has confirmed why I cannottrust you. Please do not lecture me about honor. You really ought to be ashamed ofyourself.I am sincerely sorry if you are upset but I have nothing more to say to you.Best has agreed to do a Skype debate with me with no moderation "anytime,anyplace, anyhow."Gary FrancioneAnthony Marr, founder and presidentHeal Our Planet Earth (HOPE)www.HOPE-CARE.orgwww.MySpace.com/AnthonyMarrwww.YouTube.com/AnthonyMarrwww.HomoSapiensSaveYourEarth.blogspot.comwww.ARConference.orgwww.AnimalVoices.org604-222-1169--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Anthony Marr <anthony_marr@yahoo.com> wrote:From: Anthony Marr <anthony_marr@yahoo.com>Subject: To Professor FrancioneTo: gfrancione@earthlink.netCc: anthony-marr@hope-care.org, sbest1@elp.rr.com, "'Bob Torres'"<bob@rjtorres.net>, "'Adam Kochanowicz'" <adam@vegpage.com>Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 10:57 AMDear Gary,I have responded to your initial demand for an interview with all due respect. Ihave addressed you with courtesy, honesty and I believe professionalismthroughout. The following have transpired, some involving significant timeexpenditure on my part:1. In response to your initial complaint about what Dr. Best (not me) said aboutyour philosophy on my show, I have designed the fairest solution for allconcerned, and extended invitations to both you and Dr. Best to hold a civildebate on my show, so that you will have a chance to counter whatever point Dr.Best made with which you disagree. You wrote back that you would favor debating

Dr. Best on my show than Bob's. I have confirmed my offer, which Dr. Best, AdamKochanowski, you, and presumably Bob Torres, have all accepted.2. You expressed concern about me taking sides in the debate, and though Iinitially expressed an interest in doing so, I have heeded your concern andredefined myself as the host and one of the two co-moderators, as you haverequired, and accepted Adam as the other co-moderator, as you have decided.3. You wanted to have Bob come on the show as a debater, and though I thoughtthat he would be "on you side", I had no objection, and neither had Dr. Best.4. We have all spent time pinning down the date (see the exhanges quoted below),and have jointly agreed on September 18. I repeat, we have all agreed to do thedebate on my show on September 18.5. I have spent time designing the debate format and presenting it for all to seeand critique. In this format, I have made perfectly plain that Adam and I will beonly asking questions, and the time-frame and time lines are clearly shown to haveno provision for Adam or I to interject in the debate. So, if Bob does notparticipate, it would indeed be a one-on-one debate between you and Dr. Best.6. I repeat, I have been consistently courteous and honest with you, as withanyone I deal with, and in fact professionally respectful to you throughout ourfacebook and email exchanges. I have told you that I have never contacted CamilleMarino in this matter or in fact ever. She and I are myspace friends, but neitherhave the other among his/her top friends, and she and I have never exchanged asingle comment or message. She and I have never been friends on facebook up tothis point. And yet, you repeatedly and highhanded accused me (or Dr. Best) ofbeing a "liar". You are a law professor, sir. Do you teach your students toaccuse without evidence or proof? Have you considered that our facebook and emailcommunications have not been agreed upon to be secret, and that we (you included)have every right to CC or BCC them in whole or part to some of our own friends,who have friends of our own? Afterall, you yourself have involved others besidesDr. Best and myself, e.g. Adam and Bob, and presumably others of whom I have nomeans to be aware. What Ms. Marino does with the basic information she hadgathered from whatever source of hers is strictly up to her interpretation of it,and she certainly did not ask for my approval about using the word "wit". (Aftersome strenuous searching involving both myself and my trusted friend Dominique, wefinally found Ms. Marino's comment in a blog site, and that was HOURS AFTER youhave accused me of colluding with Ms. Marino).6. Since we have arrived at our all round agreement to do the show on AnimalVoices (again according to your own preference over Bob's) on September 18, I havespent hours writing the announcement, respectfully using the best pictures of youI could find on the internet, and cropping the one I decided on as nicely as thepicture allowed. The exact wording in the announcement is as follows (I have sentit to you once before, but here it is again:"On Friday, Sept. 18, Anthony Marr will host the first ever online debate betweentwo prominent animal rights philosophers/activists, who, though both vegans, holddiametrically opposed views on the strategies and tactics of the AR/veganmovement. One is Dr. Steve Best, professor of philosophy, U of TX @ El Pasothe other is Gary Francione, professor of philosophy and law, Rutgers U, NJ