Lets Talk Bitcoin! - Episode 06: Cyprus & Serendipity Participants: Ada B! Le"ine #ABL$ - %ost Andreas &!

Antonopoulos #A&A$ - Co-%ost Step'anie (! &urp'y #S(&$ - Co-%ost &ic'ael %ill #&%$ - )uest! Bitcoin Cyprus Pro*ect! Se+ ent starts at ,-:.,! /e00rey Tucker #/T$ - )uest! Laisse1 2aire Books! Se+ ent starts at 33:00! ABL: %i4 and 5elco e to 6Lets Talk Bitcoin46 a s'o5 0or anyone interested in cryptocurrencies and t'e 0uture o0 oney! Co in+ up on todays s'o5: 78e 'a"e t'e San 2rancisco 2or9es eetup report! 7T'eres al5ays oney in t'e 9anana stand4 also teeny-tiny AS:C iners4 are you a 9uyer; 7: c'eck in 5it' &ic'ael %all on 9itcoins and t'e Cypriot cala ity! 7&akin+ 'istory! 8e talk Satos'i s<uare and t'e ca0e eetup ori+ins o0 odern stock arkets! 7Bad stu00 on t'e 9lockc'ain! 8e separate 0act 0ro 0iction and 'ope0ully lay t'e issue to rest! 7And 0inally4 an e=tra-lon+ inter"ie5 5it' /e00rey Tucker o0 Laisse1 2aire Books4 on t'e Serendipity o0 Bitcoin and 'is *ourney 0ro skeptic to ent'usiast! Lookin+ to educate yoursel0 on t'e 0uture o0 oney; C'eck out LetsTalkBitcoin!co >learn 0or your connection to t'e Bitcoin Education Pro*ect! &y na e is Ada B! Le"ine! : a a 5riter and speaker 5'o likes to e=plain co plicated topics in understanda9le ter s! T'ats really 5'at 5e are doin+ 'ere4 takin+ t'e co plicated topic o0 crypto+rap'ically secured oney and 'elpin+ people see 5'at it can do in t'eir o5n li"es! /oinin+ e in our on+oin+ <uest 0or clarity are: Andreas &! Antonopoulos4 an e=pert in decentrali1ed net5orks and secure syste s4 A&A: %i. ABL: - and ?r! Step'anie &urp'y4 a scientist and syndicated radio 'ost! S(&: %ello. ABL: T'anks 0or *oinin+ e a+ain on anot'er episode o0 Lets Talk Bitcoin!

A&A: 8it' all o0 t'is talk o0 tec'nolo+y4 it6s so eti es easy to +et cau+'t up in it and 0or+et a9out all t'e people 9e'ind all t'e tec'nolo+y4 and really 0or+et a9out 5'at 5onder0ul people t'ese are! @esterday4 : 5ent to a San 2rancisco eetup or+ani1ed 9y a 2or9es contri9utor4 Aas' ir %ill4 5'o is doin+ an e=peri ent to li"e on Bitcoin 0or a 5eek4 and t'is 5as 'er +rand 0inale! S'e in"ited e"eryone to Sake Bone4 5'ic' is a local sus'i and sake 9ar in San 2rancisco4 ne=t to t'e :nternet Arc'i"e - <uite a nice coincidence4 or a +reat arran+e ent - and s'e in"ited people to dinner! : t'ou+'t ay9e 9uy 0our or 0i"e people dinner4 and set up a re<uest 0or people to s'o5 up! So : arri"ed at t'e restaurant at Cp and : looked inside and : 5as tryin+ to 0i+ure out 5'ic' ta9le 5as t'e Bitcoin ta9le4 so : 5alked up to t'e people 5'o looked +eekiest and said4 D:s t'is t'e Bitcoin ta9le;E And t'ey looked at e 0unny !!! turns out all o0 t'e ta9les 5ere Bitcoin ta9les4 t'e o"er0lo5 outside on t'e side5alk 5as Bitcoin ta9les! T'e entire restaurant 'ad 9een co pletely taken o"er4 pro9a9ly 30 - -0 people 5ere t'ere4 and 9oy4 5'at an a a1in+ e"enin+ it 5as! )ot to eet so e incredi9le people! So e o0 t'e o"ers and s'akers o0 t'e Bitcoin industry t'ere! : dont 5ant to ention na es! T'ey pro9a9ly didnt 5ant to attract t'at uc' attention4 9ut t'ere 5ere a couple o0 0ounders and CEFs 0ro a*or Bitcoin 9usinesses t'ere! T'ere 5ere lots and lots o0 users4 interestin+ people4 de"elopers4 ne5 9usiness o5ners4 all kinds o0 people4 as 5ell as o0 course a 5'ole 9unc' o0 *ournalist>press> edia people! And it 5as a 0antastic e"enin+4 lots o0 +reat con"ersations! :ts so easy to 0or+et a9out all t'e inspirational people out t'ere4 all o0 t'e +reat ideas4 and 5'at really 9rin+s us to+et'erG t'is s'ared purpose t'at 5e all 0eel! So : le0t t'is eetin+ co pletely 9u11ed4 5it' do1ens o0 9usiness cards and connections 5'ic' led to actually se"eral con"ersations and 0ollo5-ups today! :0 you dont do eetups4 start doin+ t'e ! T'is is a +reat reason to do t'e ! Bitcoin is a +reat 5ay to +et into t'e eetup space4 and eetin+ people 5'o are interested in Bitcoin is really a lot o0 0un4 so : +oin+ to 9e doin+ a lot o0 t'ese 0ro no5 on! S(&: : ABL: @ou totally *ealous4 t'at sounds a5eso e! ean : 'a"e to lea"e y 'ouse;

A&A: 8ell no4 actually4 you dont Ada ! 8'ats really easy is you +o to &eetup!co and you start one at your 'ouse4 and t'en you 5atc' t'e 30 people co e t'ere! Seriously4 5'y not; A picnic one 5ould 9e a9solutely a5eso e! : 5ould co e! : actually si+ned up 0or H ot'er eetups t'is 5eek4 and in e00ect4 its a 5ay to keep eetin+ people! Also i0 you are interested in doin+ t'is as a li"in+4 ri+'t; :0 you are interested in earnin+ 9itcoin 0or 5ork4 9eco in+ a 9itcoin pro0essional4 startin+ a 9usiness4 +ettin+ 'ired in 9itcoin: o'4 t'ese are +reat places! : ean4 yesterday t'e place 5as literally 0ull o0 9ot' 9usiness people 'irin+ people 5'o 5ere o00erin+ ser"ices - de"elopers4 +rap'ic desi+ners4 "arious ot'er areas o0 e=pertise4 as 5ell as a couple o0 ICs 5'o 5ere tryin+ not to look like ICs! :n"estors4 rat'er4 : s'ould say4 5'o 5ere casually listenin+ in on con"ersations4 and t'en akin+ contacts! : 5ouldnt 9e surprised i0 a lot o0 Bitcoin pro*ects +et 0unded t'rou+' t'is type o0 serendipitous eetin+!

S(&: T'at is so cool4 you kno5 e"en little Je5 %a ps'ire4 'ere 5'ere : 0ro 4 'as 9itcoin eetups once a 5eek! T'eres a pretty acti"e 9itcoin co unity 'ere! &ostly li9ertarians and people 5'o are in"ol"ed in t'e 2ree State Pro*ect in so e 5ay or 0riends o0 t'e 4 and its called t'e 2ree State Bitcoin Consortiu 4 t'ey 'a"e 5eekly eetups! &ay9e t'e ones in t'e 9ay area are a little ore 0illed 5it' people 0ro t'e tec' sector! A little ore 'i+' class! : 'eard +reat t'in+s a9out t'e ! But yea'4 : ean t'eres pretty uc' 9itcoin co unities all o"er t'e place! And not only do : t'ink it 5ould 9e a +reat place to +et *o9s and to net5ork pro0essionally4 9ut also per'aps to eet 0riends4 and to eet people to +o into potentially 0uture 9usinesses 5it' or pro*ects 5it'4 or e"en to eet si+ni0icant ot'ers4 did you see any o0 t'at 'appenin+; A&A: : a 'appily arried and 9lind to all o0 t'at!

ABL: 8ell actually t'at is a decent <uestion! 8'at 5as t'e +ender ratio like4 i0 you could tell; A&A: T'ats a +reat <uestion! Actually4 : 5ould say it 5as a per0ect representation o0 t'e 9itcoin co unity! E"ery 5alk o0 li0e4 e"ery a+e4 e"ery et'nicity4 country o0 ori+in4 lan+ua+e spoken! 5eird accent4 5eird look4 and +ender 5as represented e<ually! S(&: 8o54 t'ats a5eso e! ABL: T'at is pretty a5eso e actually! : t'ink its +reat t'at you +uys 'a"e acti"e co unities4 9ut : t'ink t'at4 e"en you Step'anie in Je5 %a ps'ire t'eres a really 9i+ li9erty oriented co unity4 so : t'ink t'eres a lot o0 9itcoin a5areness 9ecause o0 t'at! : a9out an 'our and a 'al0 nort' o0 San 2rancisco and t'eres not'in+! : 'a"e a9out t'ree to5ns4 0our to5ns around e and t'ere are no eetups! So t'e <uestion 0or e 'as not 9een do : 5ant to +o to a eetup4 its 9een do : eit'er A$ 5ant to dri"e a lon+ 5ay to +o to a eetup4 or B$ do : *ust start so et'in+ ysel0 and take t'at on as an additional pro*ect! : t'ink ulti ately t'ats 5'ats +oin+ to 'appenin+ is t'at : *ust +oin+ to start a eetup and t'en its kinda +oin+ to +ro5 0ro t'ere! But : t'ink t'ats so et'in+ t'at: i0 you are listenin+ to t'is podcast4 c'ances are "ery +ood t'at you are 5ay a'ead o0 t'e cur"e o0 KKL o0 t'e people t'at you kno5! @ou kind o0 are t'e 0ore0ront o0 t'is4 and i0 your local to5n or local area doesnt 'a"e a 9itcoin eetup4 its real easy to start one and once you do start one4 t'ey kind o0 9eco e conta+ious! :ts all a9out education4 t'ats 5'at 5e are doin+ 'ere 5it' t'e s'o54 9ut t'ats 5'at t'ese eetups are a9out4 too! :ts a9out net5orkin+4 and its a9out education4 and s'arin+ t'at in0or ation!

S(&: @ea'4 : 5onder i0 5e can put so et'in+ up on our 5e9site4 LetsTalkBitcoin!co 4 a9out startin+ a local eetup and ay9e listeners could post t'eir eetups and 0ind people to attend t'at 5ay! ABL: A+ain4 5e +otta do t'is 0oru t'in+! its on y list to do4 it really is! T'anks 0or t'at update a9out t'e San 2rancisco eetup Andreas4 t'ats really +reat to 'ear! : +lad t'at t'eres so uc' e=cite ent4 and San 2rancisco is kind o0 a speci0ic place 0or t'at4 and e"en so 5e"e 9een 'earin+ t'is sort o0 t'in+ e"ery5'ere! : 5as talkin+ 5it' /o'n 8aller ay9e t5o 5eeks a+o4 and 'e 5as tellin+ e a9out 'o5 t'ey 'ad4 in /apan4 a local Bitcoin eetup t'at 'e 'ad 9een attendin+4 'ad e=ploded like K0L in ter s o0 attendance o"er t'e course o0 a couple o0 5eeks and t'ere 'a"e 9een ot'er stories t'ere too4 co in+ up all o"er t'e place! : really t'ink its t'e ti e and its t'e 5ay people are interactin+ 5it' eac' ot'er! MMMM &usic MMMM S(&: : *ust lookin+ at t'is t'read 'ere 0ro t'e BitcoinTalk 0oru ! And its called4 t'e 'eadline is: NAnnounce ent: Block Erupter OSB4 and apparently t'eres a co pany called Bit2ountain and t'ey 'a"e an e=peri ental 9atc' o0 t'ese OSB-po5ered AS:C iners t'at 'a"e passed t'eir initial tests4 t'ey 'a"e pictures o0 t'e online4 and eac' one ines at a9out H00 '>s! Jo5 t'ats not as uc' as t'e ot'er AS:Cs t'at4 0or instance4 Butter0lyla9s is talkin+ a9out4 or t'is /upiter t'in+ t'at 5e talked a9out4 5'ic' ay 9e *ust as 0ra+ entary as +oin+ to /upiter itsel04 t'at supposedly ines at .-0 +'>s4 so t'at 5ould 9e like ,4000 ti es 0aster t'an t'is little OSB t'in+! But you can plu+ it into OSB4 its entirely po5ered 9y t'e OSB port4 one o0 t'e pictures 'ere s'o5s a 'eat sink so you can potentially cool it in a 9unc' o0 di00erent 5ays4 and its opened to t'e air4 you can see all t'e circuitry4 it 'as a little LE? in it t'at 0las'es 5'ile its inin+4 5'en a s'are +ets accepted! T'ey 'a"e a picture 'ere 5'ere t'ey 'a"e a ten-OSB strip and t'ey"e plu++ed in se"en in a ro5 o0 t'ese de"ices and t'ey said t'ey"e ran t'e o"erni+'t and t'ey are all "ery sta9le! T'is looks really pro isin+4 t'is is like t'e 0irst p'ysical e"idence 5it' +ood pictures 5e"e seen! And t'ese are a9out t'e si1e o0 a <uarter4 : +uess4 o0 a s all coin! Actually4 t'ey are s'o5in+ a /apanese coin4 so : not sure 5'at kind o0 coin it is! But t'eyre pretty s all4 : 5ould say like t'e si1e o0 your t'u 9 and s all enou+' t'at you can 'a"e a OSB dri"e t'at po5ers t'e ! T'eyre sayin+ t'ey are +oin+ to 9e a"aila9le 0or order in 9atc'es! Eac' one is +oin+ to cost t5o 9itcoins4 ,!KK 9itcoins4 and you 'a"e to order at least H00 de"ices4 so t'is is +oin+ to 9e - t'e 0irst 9atc' is +oin+ to 9e 0or +roup-9uys and retailers 5'o are +oin+ to sell t'e to ot'er people! 8'at do you +uys t'ink a9out t'is; A&A: : t'ink its a +reat idea4 really e=citin+! :ts a +reat opportunity to +et into and e=peri ent a 9it! S(&: :t looks like people are really really e=cited a9out t'is on t'e 9itcointalk t'read! S aller OSB AS:C iners t'at are a little 9it ore a00orda9le 0or t'e a"era+e person are pro9a9ly +oin+ to ake t'e net5ork 9i++er4 t'ey are +oin+ to ake it ore distri9uted4

5'ic' is al5ays a +reat t'in+! @ou could pro9a9ly +et ten o0 t'ese4 like t'ey said4 and run t'e o00 a OSB strip4 and you could 9e 'a"in+ so e pretty +ood 'as'in+ po5er4 so : t'ink t'is 5ould 9e a +reat t'in+ 0or Bitcoin in +eneral4 and : 5ould lo"e to +et y 'ands on one! A&A: &ake t'at t5o please4 Step'anie! :d like one4 too! ABL: T'ere are t5o an+les t'at : t'ink t'at : 'a"e a little 9it o0 di00erences 5it' you on! : a+ree 5it' you t'at t'is is +ood 0or Bitcoin4 9ut 0ro t'e perspecti"e o0 so eone 5'o i+'t actually 5ant to 9uy one - : dont really kno5! Because4 a+ain4 5'at youre doin+4 5'at youre tradin+4 : t'ink t'ey cost like , 9itcoin or ,!H 9itcoin eac'4 you said; S(&: Jo t'ey actually cost t5o 9itcoins eac'! ABL: T'ey cost t5o 9itcoins eac'! Fkay4 so t'ey cost t5o 9itcoins eac'4 and youre 9uyin+ t'e no54 youll pro9a9ly recei"e t'e no5 - 9ut isnt t'ere a pro9le 5it' t'e AS:C saturation t'in+ +oin+ to 'appen; ?idnt Butter0lyla9s *ust announce t'at t'ey are releasin+4 t'ey are 0inally +oin+ to 9e releasin+ all o0 t'e pre-orders t'ey took; T'at 5ould 9e y concern 5it' t'is! @ou 5ould 9uy t'is no54 and 9y t'e ti e you +ot it4 t'e net5ork 5ould 'a"e ad*usted! So e"en t'ou+'4 yea' its H00 '>s4 5'ic' looks +ood ri+'t no54 pro9a9ly 5'en t'e net5ork +oes up .0 ti es : *ust 5onder 5'at t'e return is +oin+ to 9e! T'at 5ould 9e y pri ary concern4 really 5it' +ettin+ into any kind o0 inin+ ri+'t no5 is *ust t'at o"in+ 0or5ard - especially i0 you are talkin+ a9out steppin+ into Bitcoin4 applicationinte+rated speci0ic circuit4 t'ose can only 9e used 0or Bitcoin! H00 '>s is +ood no54 and certainly t'e po5er consu ption is +ood! : *ust 5onder i0 in t'ree ont's i0 it is really +oin+ to 9e anyt'in+! :0 t'e net5ork +oes up .0 ti es4 t'en suddenly4 you are talkin+ a9out t'e e<ui"alent o0 ,- '>s! S(&: @ea'4 a9solutely! T'ere are a lot o0 people sayin+ t'is on t'e 9itcoin 0oru s! And : ean4 t'ey actually 'a"e 9een sayin+ t'is a9out e"ery sin+le inin+ tec'nolo+y t'at co es out! T'ere 5ill 9e at least one naysayer t'at says4 DF'4 its not +oin+ to 9e pro0ita9le 5it' t'is tec'nolo+y in a couple o0 ont's4 so don6t 5aste your ti e any5ay!E And e"en t'ou+' people 'a"e 9een sayin+ t'at 0or a lon+ ti e4 t'ere 'a"e 9een so e unseen t'in+s like t'e delay 5it' AS:Cs 9ein+ introduced into t'e arket! T'e price o0 Bitcoin is also anot'er 0actor! 8e dont kno5 5'at t'e price is +oin+ to 9e in a couple ont's4 so e"en i0 youre only inin+ a 0e5 satos'is a day4 t'at could 9e e"entually really pro0ita9le! ABL: (i+'t4 and : t'ink t'ats t'e 5ildcard t'ereG 9ut4 a+ain4 anyti e t'at 5e start talkin+ t'ese tec'nolo+ies4 : t'ink its really i portant t'at people keep in ind t'at 5'at t'ey ean no5 does not necessarily translate to 5'at t'ey are +oin+ to ean in t'e 0uture! @ou kno5 5'at : ean; At t'e sa e ti e4 i0 0or 5'ate"er reason all t'e tec'nolo+ies t'at are out t'ere start to 0ail4 t'en t'is could 9e e"en ore "alua9le! : *ust t'ink t'at t'e case is ore likely t'at it 5ill 9e less "alua9le! But youre ri+'t4 it is all relati"e 9ased on t'e price o0 9itcoin4

9ecause earnin+ 0!0, BTC 5'en its 5ort' P,00 is not so +reat4 9ut earnin+ 0!0, BTC 5'en its 5ort' P,04000 is o9"iously a sli+'tly di00erent "alue e<uation! S(&: (i+'t! &ay9e its ti e to +o to ABL: @ea'! S(&: :ts not 0!, 9itcoin4 its ,00 9its Q BTCR! : t'ink t'e ot'er 0actor is t'at t'ese are +oin+ to 9e s'ippin+ 0ro C'ina4 so 5'o kno5s 5'at could 'appen: s'ippin+ delays4 anu0acturin+ delays4 custo delays4 t'eres all kinds o0 di00erent 0actors! 8'en it co es to takin+ an idea and +ettin+ a prototype 9uilt and t'en +ettin+ t'at ass produced and t'en +ettin+ t'at actually s'ipped! All kinds o0 t'in+s could 'appen4 and t'eres still a lot o0 risk in"ol"ed in t'is4 9ut : can see 5'y so e people are e=cited and : can see 5'y so e people are really skeptical! MMMMM &usic MMMMM ABL: 8ere 'ere 5it' &ic'ael %ill! &%: : a )reek citi1en and an A erican citi1en li"in+ in Cyprus! : 5as 9orn in Qunintelli+i9leR ?akota4 y ot'er is )reek4 : o"ed to At'ens4 initially! 2i"e years a+o : o"ed to Cyprus! ABL: So 5it' e"eryt'in+ t'at 'as 9een 'appenin+ in Cyprus o"er t'e last couple t'at so et'in+ t'at 'as a00ected you and people you kne5 directly; &%: @es4 a9solutely! : consider Cyprus to 9e y per anent place o0 residence4 so o9"iously4 yea'4 it a00ected e and pretty uc' e"eryone : kno5! ABL: :n t'e political situation leadin+ up to it4 5as t'is t'e sort o0 t'in+ 5'ere t'ere 5as any 5arnin+ 5'atsoe"er4 as 0ar as ost people are concerned; &%: : t'ink t'e +eneral sense in Cyprus is t'at t'ere 5asnt a speci0ic 5arnin+ o0 5'at t'e 0inal solution 5ould 9e4 9ut t'ere 5ere de0initely dark clouds 0or in+ since t'e past year! Especially at t'e PS: deal 5it' )reece 5'ic' in0licted "ery 'ea"y losses on Cypriot 9anks! 8ell4 in Cyprus t'ey call it t'e Dpre- e orandu E - e orandu 9ein+ t'e a+ree ents t'at eac' indi"idual country akes 5it' t'e Euro +roup to i ple ent certain re0or s and policies! T'e pre"ious +o"ern ent4 o0 ?e etris C'risto0ias4 si+ned a pre- e orandu last ont's4 is 9its Q BTCR4 like 5e"e talked a9out 9e0ore!

su er to i ple ent certain re0or s! Apparently4 one o0 t'ose re0or s 5as restructurin+ t'e t5o a*or 9anks o0 t'e nation! T'e pre"ious +o"ern ent didnt take any speci0ic action! T'ey 9asically *ust 5as'ed t'eir 'ands on t'e 5'ole atter and le0t it up to t'e ne5 +o"ern ent t'at 5as elected in 2e9ruary to deal 5it' t'e 5'ole crisis! Basically4 t'e 9o 9 kind o0 e=ploded in t'e 'ands o0 t'e ne5 president! T5o 5eeks a0ter 'e 5as elected4 'e 5as 9asically a 9us'ed at Qt'eR Euro +roup con0erence! ABL: So 5'at you are sayin+ is t'at t'e old +o"ern ent 'ad ade t'is a+ree ent 5it' t'e Euro1one prior to lea"in+4 and t'en 5'en t'e ne5 +o"ern ent ca e in4 t'ere 5as pretty uc' not'in+ t'ey could do a9out it! &%: Pretty uc'! And no54 politically4 t'e situation in Cyprus is t'at t'ese t5o parties are tryin+ to s'i0t 9la e on eac' ot'er! T'e citi1ens really dont kno5 5'o to trust any ore! ABL: So 0or people 5'o 'a"e 9een under a rock4 can you +i"e us a rundo5n o0 5'at 'as 9een +oin+ on in Cyprus; &%: T'e decision o0 &arc' ,-t' 5as to s'ut-do5n and li<uidate t'e nation6s second lar+est 9ank4 popular 9ank - Laiki Bank as it is called in )reek - and 0or it to 9e split into a +ood 9ank and a 9ad 9ank! T'e 9ad 9ank 5ill take all t'e unsecured deposits and outstandin+ loans t'at 5erent 9ein+ 'onored or up-to-date so to speak! T'at 9ank 5ould 9e li<uidated4 5'ic' eans t'ey 5ould +o a0ter assets t'at are tied to t'e loans4 suc' as property or ot'er assets! T'e +ood 9ank- 5'ic' 5ould 9e constituted o0 +ood loans and in"est ents t'at are still in t'e 9lack - it 5as essentially 9ou+'t out 9y t'e nations lar+est 9ank: t'e Bank o0 Cyprus! T'e current situation ri+'t no5 is t'at you 'a"e t'e Bank o0 Cyprus4 5'ic' 'as 9asically con0iscated all o0 t'e uninsured deposits4 5'ic' is deposits a9o"e ,004000 euros4 t'eyre ne+otiatin+ t'e a ount o0 t'e 'aircut t'at 5ill 9e i posed on t'ese deposits! A couple o0 days a+o4 t'ere 5as a decision t'at t'is a ount 5ould 9e close to K0L! So 9asically4 any a ount o"er ,004000 5ill 9e taken a5ay 0ro people and 9usinesses and in"estors! ABL: 8e ori+inally started talkin+ 9ecause you 5ere postin+ on (eddit a9out 5antin+ to +o 9ack to Cyprus and essentially educate people a9out Bitcoin! Can you tell us a9out your plan; &%: 8'at : e=periencin+ as a citi1en4 5'at : seein+ is t'at t'ere is a se"ere cas' s'orta+e in t'e econo y! People si ply do not 'a"e cas' to ake transactions! T'ose t'at do 'a"e cas' are 'oldin+ on to it and only 9uyin+ t'e 9are essentials! So t'e econo y 'as co e to a standstill and t'is is in turn 5ill o0 course lead to an e"en 9i++er econo ic do5nturn4 and 5ill a00ect t'e de9t to )?P ratio4 5'ic' is esti ated to 9e -S!CL t'is year alone! T'ats a "ery +enerous esti ate! Cyprus is +oin+ t'rou+' t'e sa e cycle t'at )reece e=perienced t'ree years a+o and is still e=periencin+! : 9elie"e t'at Bitcoin could 9e

a solution i0 it is introduced to t'e econo y as a co petin+ currency to t'e Euro: youll 9asically 'a"e an additional currency to per0or transactions! T'is o0 course is so et'in+ "ery ne5! : no e=pert on it! : *ust 5ant to or+ani1e a 9itcoin 0oru to +et ot'er people 5'o understand econo ics 9etter t'an e4 5'o understand Bitcoin 9etter t'an e4 and discuss possi9le solutions to t'is crisis! ABL: So i0 so e9ody 5ants to 'elp you in your task4 is t'ere a 5ay t'ey can +et in touc' 5it' you; &%: A9solutely! : a "ery acti"e on (eddit and try to update as uc' as possi9le! : *ust +ettin+ started so4 ri+'t no54 : a really not in a position to ask 0or speci0ic 'elp 9ecause : do not 'a"e anyt'in+ speci0ic to o00er! Anyone 5'o is interested in trackin+ pro+ress o0 t'is pro*ect4 t'ey can 0ollo5 us on our 2ace9ook pa+e: D(e9oot Cyprus 8it' Bitcoin!E Also on (eddit4 keep an eye on t'e Bitcoin su9reddit! ABL: %o5 'as t'e reaction 9een to 9itcoin in Cyprus; %a"e you spoke 5it' people a9out t'is yet; &%: : do kind o0 'a"e an approac' : like to use! 8'ene"er : +o to a ca0eteria or a 9ar or a s'op4 and 5'en : ask 0or t'e 9ill4 : *ust tell t'e 4 Ddo you accept 9itcoin;E E"ery9ody in"aria9ly says4 D5'ats 9itcoin;E : tell t'e 4 D8ell its a di+ital currency used all o"er t'e 5orld4 you"e 'eard o0 it;E %e says4 DJo!E So 5e start a s all discussion4 and : tell 'i 4 DLook you 5ant to kno5 ore a9out t'is4 : started a 2ace9ook pa+e4 look it up! : also tryin+ to or+ani1e a 0oru 0or anyone interested to co e and talk! &ay9e 5e can do t'is on a ont'ly 9asis and start 0indin+ solutions to t'is econo ic crisis!E T'e reception 'as 9een "ery +ood! : 5as surprised4 so e people are de0initely co in+4 ot'er people really 5anted to kno5 ore a9out t'is! (i+'t no5 : in t'e process o0 takin+ in a lot o0 in0or ation and 5ritin+ it out in )reek4 9ecause t'ere is not a lot o0 in0or ation in )reek out t'ere! :tll really 'elp in co unicatin+ a9out Bitcoin! ABL: %a"e you run into any9ody yet 5'o is already 5orkin+ 5it' t'e currency; &%: : 'a"ent run into any9ody in Cyprus 5'o is 5orkin+ 5it' it! : did +et a response on (eddit 0ro so eone 5'o said 'es 9een li"in+ in Cyprus and 'es 9een trackin+ Bitcoin since .0,0! : 5rote a reply and : told 'i 4 D)reat4 5'y dont you co e to t'e 0oru ; Lets eet! Lets talk! : 'ope to see you t'ere!E ABL: @ou said youre plannin+ to do it as a e"ent; ont'ly t'in+! 8'at is t'e date o0 your 0irst

&%: :t 5ill 9e &ay .-t'4 tentati"ely4 o0 course! 8'en : return to Cyprus and : start usin+ y connections t'ere4 : 'a"e a 0riend 5'o 5orks at t'e lar+est daily ne5spaper t'ere Qunintelli+i9leR! )et so e press releases and so e articles4 and ay9e t'ey can start +ettin+ t'e 5ord out! : also 'a"e so e 0riends 0ro so e ad"ertisin+ a+encies t'at : used to 5ork 0or4 t'at can 'elp e or+ani1e 9ook "enues4 print so e lea0lets and put up posters! : +oin+ to do all o0 t'ese t'in+s a couple o0 5eeks leadin+ up to &ay .-t'! T'ere 5ill 9e a lot o0 5ork 5aitin+ 0or e 5'en : +et 9ack to Cyprus 9ut : "ery e=cited to do t'is! : really 9elie"e in t'e idea o0 Bitcoin as an alternati"e currency 'elpin+ out Cyprus at t'is ti e! &ay9e people outside o0 Cyprus need to +et a 9etter understandin+ o0 t'e social situation in Cyprus! T'e edia in Cyprus 'a"e 9een pretty uc' usin+ scare tactics4 and t'e politicians4 o0 course! People o0 Cyprus 'a"e 9een presented 5it' t5o u+ly options! Fne is: stay in t'e euro4 pus' t'rou+' t'ese re0or s4 +o t'rou+' 0i"e or si= years o0 depression4 and t'en4 at t'e end o0 t'e tunnel4 5ill 9e de"elop ent! T'ats 5'at t'eyre sayin+! T'ey are sayin+ i0 5e dont do t'is and 5e pull out o0 t'e euro and 5e print our o5n currency4 t'e currency 5ill 9e de"alued 9y C0L-S0L! @ou 5ill lose e"eryt'in+! :t 5ill 9e disaster4 it 5ill 9e c'aos! People are scared into su9 ission4 9asically! : 9elie"e in a essa+e t'at is ore positi"e: a essa+e t'at t'ere is an independent currency t'at is not controlled 9y any central 9ank! :t doesnt re<uire t'e use o0 co ercial 9anks! All it re<uires is your 0ait' in usin+ it! All it re<uires is indi"idual initiati"e! T'ats so et'in+ t'at really runs a+ainst Cypriot entality! :ndi"idualis is not really t'e "alue t'at it is in A erican society4 0or instance - or in Britis' or in 8estern society! Cyprus is a 9it ore di00erent! :ts a ore closed4 conser"ati"e society! ABL: :t see s like so et'in+ 5'ere e"en i0 people 5ere a5are o0 t'e possi9ility t'at it could 'appen4 : dont t'ink t'at any9ody t'ou+'t t'at it 5ould 'appen in real li0e4 ri+'t; &%: T'ere 'a"e 9een reports a9out politicians and relati"es o0 politicians pullin+ out t'eir deposits 0ro Cypriot 9anks *ust days 9e0ore t'e Euro +roup decision! T'eres a lot o0 an+er in Cyprus4 as you can understand! ABL: : t'ink it is a si ilar situation else5'ere in t'e 5orld4 5'ere you start talkin+ a9out t'ese concepts4 9ut people dont really 'a"e t'e conte=t to appreciate or understand it! (eally4 to conceptuali1e t'at t'in+s could 9e di00erent 0ro t'e 5ays t'at t'ey are no54 9ut 'ere 5e 'a"e an e=a ple o0 e=actly t'at 'appenin+ - a really drastic c'an+e 'appenin+ 5it' "ery little notice! &%: @ea'4 and in a sense4 Cyprus is in a uni<ue situation to really test t'e li its o0 Bitcoin to see 5'ere it can +o4 and : t'ink t'at t'e Bitcoin co unity really 5ants to see t'is 'appen in a country4 in t'e sense t'at4 so 0ar 9itcoin 'as 9een seen ore as a speculati"e in"est ent! So et'in+ t'at you can 9uy today and sell s'ort4 in a ont' or so et'in+! T'e price cras' last ont' 5as so et'in+ t'at a lot o0 people e=pected4 9ut per'aps not to suc' e=tre es! Bitcoin 'as "olatility issues4 it 'as so e re+ulatory issues! : 9elie"e t'at t'ese 5ill s oot' out i0 a country like Cyprus actually 9e+ins usin+ it as a currency! :t is in t'e interest

o0 t'e international 9itcoin co unity to see Cyprus to success0ully start usin+ 9itcoin4 and o0 course4 it 5ould 9e in t'e interest o0 Cyprus itsel0! ABL: So lets play t'is out! E"eryt'in+ 5orks! E"eryt'in+ +oes to plan! 8ere a year in 0ro no54 and you"e 'ad se"eral o0 t'ese sy posiu s or eetin+s! 8'at does it look like; &%: 8ell : en"ision kind o0 like an econo y o0 co petin+ currencies! T'e c'oice o0 5'ic' currency to use at any +i"en transaction is up to t'e indi"idual! :n t'is scenario4 any price "olatility in 9itcoin4 or e"en in euro4 5ould iti+ate any loss to t'e indi"idual4 i0 'e or s'e 5ould 'a"e an a ount in 9ot' currencies! ABL: So essentially4 not puttin+ all your e++s in one 9asket! @oure 'ed+in+ your e=posure to your +i"en currency4 e"en t'ou+' its your local currency! &%: @ea'4 as opposed to t'e syste 5e 'a"e no54 5'ere 5e 'a"e 9asically a onopoly in currency! 8e 'a"e a euro onopoly in eac' country! T'is concept o0 Deac' country ust 'a"e an o00icial currency4E pretty uc' a t5entiet' century concept! T'e 5orld 'as o"ed on! T'e 5orld 'as 9eco e ore +lo9ali1ed4 ore interconnected at an indi"idual le"el! T'e concept o0 nation-state no lon+er can satis0y t'e indi"iduals need! Per'aps 5e are o"in+ into a 0uture 5'ere 5e 5ill 'a"e only di+ital currencies4 in t'e distant 0uture4 : ean! : t'ink its already started! : t'ink 5ere already o"in+ into t'at direction! T'e 0irst country to 9e+in acceptin+ t'is ne5 reality t'ats 0or in+ 5ill 9e in a "ery +ood position in t'e lon+ run! : can still see a role 0or t'e euro4 in a sense t'at 5e can still pay ta=es in euros4 still pay 0or +o"ern ent ser"ices in euros4 start payin+ o00 national de9t in euros! Bitcoin can ostly ser"e as a currency 0or e"eryday transactions! T'e s aller transactions and 0or international transaction4 o9"iously4 9ecause Cyprus 'as 9asically 9een cut o00 and isolated! :n a sense4 Cyprus doesnt 9elon+ in t'e Euro1one! T'ey use t'e euro4 9ut t'ey dont 9elon+ in t'e Euro1one 9ecause t'ere is no 0ree o"e ent o0 capital! Like : said4 Cyprus is in a "ery uni<ue position to start usin+ 9itcoin4 and di+ital currencies in +eneral! : not a s'ill 0or 9itcoin4 : ean litecoin4 terracoin4 5'ate"ercoin - ay9e 5e create a Cyprus coin! : *ust sayin+ t'e concept o0 a di+ital currency4 a currency t'at is not printed 9y a central 9ank t'at 9elon+s to t'e +lo9al 0inancial syste 4 is t'e 5ay to +o! ABL: &ic'ael %ill! Bitcoin Cyprus Pro*ect! : appreciate your ti e! &%: T'ank you Ada ! And : 'ope 5e can talk a+ain! MMMM &usic MMMM

:0 : s'o5ed you a 5e9site 5'ere you could easily purc'ase electronics 0ro t'e 5orlds lar+est distri9utor4 5it' 9itcoins4 at 1ero percent arkup4 5ould you t'ink its too +ood to 9e true; )ood ne5s4 its real and its at Bitcoinstore!co ! C'oose 0ro 'al0 a illion ite s4 sa"e oney o"er A a1on and Je5e++4 and con"ert your 9itcoins to real 5orld ite s! @ou can e"en 9uy 5it' pri"acy! All t'ey need is a s'ippin+ address! But dont take y 5ord 0or it! See 0or yoursel0 at Bitcoinstore!co ! ABL: Lets Talk Bitcoin is 0unded 9y your donations4 5it' a per-episode support +oal o0 , BTC per s'o5! Episode -4 so 0ar4 'as recei"ed a total 0!63666 BTC4 so 0ar4 0ro a total o0 ,. donors! T'ank you "ery uc'! Please re e 9er e"en i0 t'e a ount you 5ould donate is s all4 5it' 9itcoin and a +ro5in+ audience4 it adds up 0ast! :0 you are ne5 to 9itcoin and 5ould like to learn 'o5 it 5orks in ore detail4 please "isit LetsTalkBitcoin!co >learn to 9e directed to t'e 9itcoin education pro*ect4 5'ic' : 'i+'ly reco end! :0 you are 5onderin+ 5'at t'e 'osts look like4 5ant to correspond directly4 or 5ant to learn ore a9out t'e tea 9e'ind Lets Talk Bitcoin4 c'eck out t'e D eet t'e tea E section on t'e site! %osts 'a"e indi"idual tip *ars on t'eir pa+es4 so i0 you 5ould like to ake sure you are re5ardin+ t'e ri+'t indi"idual4 t'ats your destination! Lets Talk Bitcoin is also seekin+ sponsors 5'ose 9itcoin related products or ser"ices 5ould 9e use0ul to our listeners! Please contact Ada Tletstalk9itcoin!co to start t'e con"ersation! And o0 course4 our s'o5 5ould 9e not'in+ 5it'out an audience! Please s'are Lets Talk Bitcoin 5it' anyone you t'ink 5ould or s'ould 9e interestin+ in t'e 0uture o0 oney! Lets Talk Bitcoin is released under an open sourced license 5'ic' allo5s 0or t'e non-co ercial clippin+4 re i=in+4 and postin+ in any 0or at or to any site you 5ant4 so lon+ as you include a link to our site: LetsTalkBitcoin!co ! 8ere also acti"ely recruitin+ 9ot' on and o00-air talent 0or t'is and ot'er s'o5s to co e! Fnce a+ain4 i0 you are interested please contact e at Ada Tletstalk9itcoin!co !

S(&: A couple o0 5eeks a+o4 : 5as in Je5 @ork City 0or an e"ent called Anarc'y in t'e J@C4 and 5'ile : 5as t'ere4 : 5ent out to dinner 5it' a +roup o0 people4 and one o0 t'e people t'ere 5as t'e person 5'o runs t'e Je5 @ork City 9itcoin eetup4 and 'e +a"e e a 9usiness card! T'en a couple o0 5eeks later4 : connected 5it' 'i on 2ace9ook and 'e s'ared t'is article 5it' e: T'eres a 9itcoin eetup +oin+ on in Onion S<uare in Je5 @ork City4 and its an actual literal arketplace 0or 9uyin+ and sellin+ 9itcoins! : t'ink it could 9e potentially later on 0or sellin+ actual t'in+s - like o9*ects4 p'ysical o9*ects 0or 9itcoin - 9ut t'is 0irst eetup t'ere 5as *ust 9itcoins and le+acy currency c'an+in+ 'ands and it 5as actually "ery success0ul! T'e Je5 @ork Ti es 'as a piece a9out t'is eetup and its called NA Pus' 0or Bitcoin Button5ood! T'eyre sayin+4 D/ust 0eet 0ro t'e park statue o0 )eor+e 8as'in+ton in Onion S<uare4 a cro5d o0 youn+ en +at'ered on &onday a0ternoon to 9uy and sell t'e di+ital cryptocurrency! T'ey 5ere 9rou+'t to+et'er 0ro an online postin+ 0ro t'is +uy4 /os' (ossi4 9itcoin a0icionado 5'o 5orks in tec'nolo+y at t'e 8orld Trade 2inancial )roup!E T'en t'e +o on and talk a little 9it a9out 9itcoins and t'ey descri9e so e o0 t'e transactions t'at 5ent on! T'e 0irst one is t'at so e9ody 9ou+'t P.0 5ort' o0 9itcoin at t'e rate o0 P,.0 per 9itcoin! Fnce t'e 0irst transaction 5ent t'rou+'4 t'at 5as 0ollo5ed 9y any ot'er transactions! : t'ink t'is is really e=citin+! T'ey are 9asically takin+ LocalBitcoins to t'e ne=t le"el! Fnce t'ey +et so e traction and start eetin+ re+ularly4 people are +oin+ to kno5 t'at t'ey are t'ere and t'is is 5'ere you can +o to +et 9itcoins

and people ay 9e 'earin+ t'is and t'inkin+4 DF'4 t'is is so e sketc'y4 eet so e dude in t'e park and 'and 'i so e cas'4 +et so e 9itcoins4 you i+'t +et u++ed!E But no4 t'at doesnt sound like 5'at it 5as at all! : ean it sounded like it 5as +oin+ on in 9road dayli+'t4 t'ere 5as a lot o0 docu entation4 lots o0 people around akin+ sure e"eryt'in+ stays sa0e and a9o"e-9oard! : t'ink its really cool4 : e=cited a9out it! 8'at do you +uys t'ink; A&A: San 2rancisco is t'e place 5'ere 0ar ers arkets +ained early acceptance and actually 9eca e 'u+e! : a literally and 'onestly e 9arrassed t'at 5e didnt t'ink o0 t'is 0irst4 so eit'er :"e issed one t'at 5as already 'appenin+ or 5e need to +et our act to+et'er! : ean4 co e on4 5e s'ould 'a"e a 9itcoin 0ar ers arket or a 9itcoin open air arket! T'ere are so any a5eso e locations ri+'t 'ere in San 2rancisco4 and in t'e 9ay area in +eneral! Across t'e 9ay in Berkeley 0or sure4 and any ot'er places 5'ere t'is odel 5ould 5ork 9eauti0ully! Eit'er 5e"e issed it or t'is s'ould de0initely 9e 'appenin+ and : t'ink t'is 5ould 9e a 'u+e success 'ere! :ts a +reat idea! S(&: @ou kno5 t'e ori+in o0 t'e ter DButton5oodE 5'ic' 5as t'e title o0 t'is article: its a re0erence to t'e start o0 t'e Je5 @ork Stock E=c'an+e4 5'ic' 5as so e eetin+ 5'ere t'ey 5ere tradin+ stocks or so et'in+ like t'at4 so : t'ink t'at 5as cute! ABL: 8'at it sounds like 'appened is so et'in+ close to a prototype 0or an old-style tradin+ pit4 5'ere you"e +ot 9uyers and sellers o00erin+ and co petin+ 0or eac' ot'er 9asically 0or price4 and t'en once an a+ree ent is ade4 t'e interested parties step aside and do t'eir transaction4 and t'en +o ri+'t 9ack into t'e pit! ?oes it sound like4 do 5e t'ink4 t'is can +o in t'at 5ay; S(&: @ea'4 a9solutely! :0 you look at so e o0 t'e transactions4 t'ere 5as actually anot'er article t'at detailed e"ery transaction t'at 5as ade4 and t'ere 5as a pretty +ood price spread 0ro people 9uyin+ at P,.0 a 9itcoin4 do5n to like P,03-P,0S4 and it c'an+ed o"er t'e course o0 t'e a0ternoon! So4 t'at 5as super interestin+ to e! A&A: T'e 'istorical re0erences 'ere are tre endous! : o0ten 'a"e t'e 0eelin+ 5'en : dealin+ 5it' 9itcoin and 9itcoiners t'at 5e are akin+ 'istory! :ts a "ery "ery stron+ 0eelin+ and : t'ink a lot o0 9itcoiners 0eel like t'at! T'is is unprecedented! :ts unc'artered territory! And t'e 'istorical re0erences 9ack to t'e ,600s4 5'en one o0 t'e ost a*or c'an+es in 'u an econo ic condition 'appened - essentially4 t'e H4000 years 9e0ore ,600 5ere all 1ero-+ro5t' years! And t'en 0ro ,600 until odern days4 5e"e 'ad t'is e=ponential +ro5t' in econo ies! Be0ore ,6004 it really 5asnt 'appenin+! 8'at 'appened at t'at ti e 5as lots o0 di00erent t'in+s con"er+in+: renaissance4 enli+'ten ent and all o0 t'e ot'er t'in+s4 includin+ t'e odern corporation - East :ndia Co pany4 etcetera etcetera! And one o0 t'e interestin+ t'in+s is t'at it 5as also t'e 9e+innin+ o0 stock e=c'an+es in London ca0es! :t 5as eetups t'at started and in 0act "ery near to t'e locations o0 t'e 0irst ca0es in London 5'ere t'ose eetups started 0or erc'ants to 9uy into t'in+s4 like t'e East :ndia

Co pany4 is 5'ere t'e London Stock E=c'an+e sits today! 8e are de0initely and 5ere doin+ a lot o0 t'e sa e +rassroots t'in+s t'at t'ey did 9ack t'en!

akin+ 'istory4

ABL: : really appreciate t'at 'istorical conte=t! : 5as not t'at up to date on t'e 'istory o0 stock arkets4 9ut yea' it sounds like t'ats e=actly 5'at 5e are doin+4 *ust transpose us a couple 'undred years! MMMM Pause MMMM ABL: T'eres 9een a story +oin+ around a9out kiddie porn in t'e 9lockc'ain! : t'ink t'is is anot'er one o0 t'ose stories 5'ere t'e 'eadline sounds a lot di00erent t'an t'e e00ects are and : t'ou+'t it 5as i portant t'at 5e address t'is as <uickly as possi9le! T'e ori+inal 5ay : ca e across it 5as actually 0ro a 5riter na ed /o'n (o94 5'o usually : 'a"e a lot o0 respect! %e runs a 9lo+ called )lo9al )orillas and 'es a "ery 0or5ard t'inkin+ 5riter essentially a9out ne5 security issues and t'in+s like t'at! %e descri9es it like t'is: DBitcoin is currently 9ein+ used as a pu9lis'in+ syste due to a desi+n 0la5! T'at 0la5 t'reatens t'e "ia9ility o0 9itcoin as a currency! %o5 so; So e 0olks 'a"e e=ploited t'at 0eature>0la5 to pu9lis' 8ikileaks ca9les and pedop'ile porn links in 9itcoins 9lockc'ain! F0 course4 t'ats a pro9le and ay attract so e a++ressi"e 9e'a"ior 0ro +o"ern ents 5ell 9e0ore it reac'es aturation! %o5e"er4 t'ats still a pro9le since 9itcoin is decentrali1ed4 t'e steps re<uired to pre"ent people 0ro pu9lis'in+ in0or ation is "ery di00icult!E T'e article +oes on 9ut : t'ink t'at kind o0 +i"es t'e +eneral i pression t'at :6"e seen out t'ere ost co only4 is t'at t'eres kiddie porn t'at is 9ein+ put into t'e 9lockc'ain4 alon+ 5it' ot'er t'in+s t'at 5e dont 5ant t'ere <uote-un<uote4 like t'e 5ikileaks ca9les! And so e'o54 t'is 5ill 9e a pro9le 9ecause it 5ill 9rin+ do5n t'e ire o0 t'e re+ulators! Because as 5e all kno54 t'e one t'in+ you can do to totally +et yoursel0 tar+eted 9y +o"ern ent a+encies is to deal4 in so e 5ay4 s'ape4 or 0or 4 5it' c'ild porno+rap'y! A&A: Let e *ust 0i= t'at last state ent 0or you4 Ada ! T'e one 5ay t'at +o"ern ent a+encies can crack do5n on 5'ate"er t'ey 5ant is 9y loosely associatin+ it 5it' one o0 t'e 9i+ 9oo-+a-9oos! ABL: (i+'t! A&A: T'at are tiny and insi+ni0icant t'reats4 9ut t'ey o9ili1e an entire ilitary econo y and t'e 5rat' o0 t'e people to respond to! So i0 you 5ant to ake so eone look 9ad4 you associate t'e 5it' one o0 t'ese 9i+ 9u+-a-9oos! And t'ats 5'ats annoyin+ a9out t'is4 9ecause really !!! you cant !!! put !!! c'ild U porn U in !!! t'e 9lockc'ain! 8as t'at clear enou+'; @ea'4 you cant! @ou can put te=t in t'e 9lockc'ain! @ou can put links to stu00 in t'e 9lockc'ain! So t'is is really *ust a 9i+ sensationalist ess! :ts really disappointin+! T'e people 'a"e 9een reportin+ on t'is as i0 its a real issue! F9"iously4 : a 9it sensiti"e a9out t'e issue 9ecause : t'ink t'at a lot o0 +ood tec'nolo+ies4 especially ones t'at are ne5 and

di00icult to understand4 i ediately +et painted 5it' t'e a9solute 5orst possi9le use i a+ina9le4 and not all o0 t'e ot'er uses t'at are uc' ore 0re<uent4 uc' ore rele"ant4 and per0ectly le+iti ate! At t'e end o0 t'e day4 lets 9e real! &ost c'ild porn and dru+s and ot'er t'in+s are 9ou+'t in OS dollars! QF0R course4 t'e 9i+ di00erence is t'at 5'en people 9uy t'ose t'in+s in OS dollars4 so eti es t'ey also roll up t'ose OS dollars4 and use t'e to snort t'ose t'in+s strai+'t up t'eir nose! So 9itcoin4 in a 5ay4 is uc' ore 9eni+n! As : said 9e0ore4 cri inals use t'e ost po5er0ul tools t'ey 'a"e at t'eir disposal 9e t'at p'ones4 cars4 or oney! And t'is particular case is really con0latin+ t'ose t5o issues in a "ery 9ad 5ay! @ou can put .-- 9ytes o0 te=t in t'e 9lockc'ain! @ou can put t'at in a cookie on your 9ro5ser! @ou can put t'at in t'e %TTP 'eaders on your 9ro5ser! @ou can put t'at in t'e disc encryption on your laptop! @ou can put t'at in any one o0 t'e apps t'at you 9ou+'t on iTunes or t'rou+' t'e Android arket! : say 5e 9an all o0 t'ose! ABL: Fkay4 so pretty clearly4 5e all t'ink t'is is a little 9it silly4 9ut lets talk a9out 5'at t'e actual co plaint is! @ou said it 5as .-- 9ytes 5ort' o0 data! 8'at are t'ey talkin+ a9out 5'en t'ey re0er to c'ild porn; Because : dont t'ink t'ey are talkin+ a9out links4 9ecause i0 t'eyre talkin+ a9out linksU A&A: @ea'4 t'ey are talkin+ a9out links! T'ese are links t'e si1e!!! ABL: F'4 t'ey are talkin+ a9out links; A&A: @es4 a9solutely! T'ese are O(Ls4 t'ats all t'ats in t'ere! :ts O(Ls to a couple o0 sites4 and in 0act4 ost o0 t'e people lookin+ at t'is didnt 0ollo5 t'ese links4 t'ey *ust looked at t'e titles and t'ou+'t4 DFoo'4 t'at looks nastyE @ea'4 its links! T'e 8ikileaks ca9les t'at are in t'ere! T'eyre links to t'e 8ikileaks ca9les! T'ese are links to t'ose sites! :n 0act4 all o0 t'ese links e=ist in an ot'er really4 really ne0arious or+ani1ation called )oo+le! ABL: QLau+'terR So youre sayin+ you can searc' 0or all o0 t'ese t'in+s and t'ey can co e up4 9asically! A&A: F'4 o0 course4 a9solutely! And in 0act4 i0 youre searc'in+ 0or ot'er t'in+s4 so eti es t'ey can co e up4 as you can i a+ine4 and t'ey +et 9uried under iles and iles o0 rele"ant results so you dont see t'e ! @ou really 'a"e to +o to e=tre es to e"en 0ind t'ese t'in+s on t'e 9lockc'ain4 to e"en kno5 t'at t'eyre t'ere4 and 5'en you do4 all you"e ac'ie"ed is 5'at you could 'a"e ac'ie"ed 5it' a )oo+le searc'4 i0 you 5ere so per"erted! &ost o0 t'e ti e4 t'e te=t 0ield in transactions is not used! Fccasionally4 : put a little note in a transaction to re ind so eone 5'y : sendin+ t'e oney4 9ut 0or t'e ost part4 t'at 0ield re ains unused! : dont kno5! Step'anie4 Ada 4 'a"e you e"er put in a te=t co ent in a transaction;

ABL: A''4 :"e put!! :"e la9eled t'in+s4 9ut : dont t'ink t'ats 5'at youre talkin+ a9out! : t'ink youre talkin+ a9out actually a essa+e t'at +ets sent4 ri+'t; A&A: @es4 t'ats t'e optional essa+e you 'a"e a little te=t area underneat' your transaction! @ou cant do it on t'e ain 5allet4 really4 t'e o9ile 5allet4 0or sure4 doesnt 9rin+ t'at to t'e 0ront o0 t'e user inter0ace! Fn Blockc'ain i0 you do a custo send4 you can add a essa+e to t'e 9otto 4 9ut t'e <uick send doesnt do t'at! So t'e easy ans5er4 Q'o5R people 0ound t'is 5as si ply t'at KK!KL o0 all transactions dont 'a"e any te=t! T'e ones t'at do 'a"e a little te=t! So its "ery easy to 0ind t'e ones t'at 'a"e a lot o0 te=t! Fr to searc' 0or link patterns and O(Ls4 and t'ose 'a"e "arious 5eird t'in+s in t'e ! ABL: So 0ro a 5orst case scenario standpoint4 : ean4 tryin+ to look at t'is 0ro t'e perspecti"e 0ro t'e people 5'o are actually le+iti ately concerned a9out t'is4 or at least sayin+ t'at t'ey are le+iti ately concerned a9out t'is4 5'ats t'e scary pitc'; Because : ean4 clearly t'e Nputtin+ c'ild porn in t'e 9lockc'ain is not really an accurate assess ent4 so 5'at is an accurate assess ent; T'at you can *ust put a link4 and t'en t'at could like 9ut t'en4 its not like youre 'ostin+ - its not like you can look at it t'ere! :t *ust - i0 it li"es on t'e :nternet4 : dont understand 'o5 its e"en a t'in+4 you kno5; :0 it li"es on t'e :nternet and you can 0ind a link to it - 9ecause o9"iously you 'a"e to 9e a9le to 0ind a link in order to +et to it - so i0 you can 0ind a link to "isit it4 doesnt t'at ean you can take it do5n; A&A: 8ell yea'! T'ats t'e ain point! : t'ink t'e ain concern is t'is! T'e 9lockc'ain is 0ore"er! Fnce its on t'ere4 its 0ore"er! :n 0act 5e depend on it 9ein+ 0ore"er! 8e also depend on t'e 9lockc'ain 9ein+ e"ery5'ere! E"ery5'ere plus 0ore"er eans t'at 5'en youre runnin+ a 0ull node client4 you 'a"e t'e C-S +i+s 5ort' o0 9lockc'ain on your 'ard dri"e! @ou possess t'at! So t'e scary part 5as4 5ell i0 people could put4 not links4 9ut t'e actual 9ad stu00 in t'ese .-6 9ytes4 t'en you 5ould 9e in possession o0 t'at stu00 *ust 9y 'a"in+ a 0ull node client! T'ats a "ery tenuous ar+u ent4 9ot' le+ally and p'ilosop'ically! T'e 0act t'at so e 9ytes are on your co puter4 and t'eyre links - you cant really put i a+es or t'in+s like t'at in t'ere! : t'ink its an o"er9lo5n concern! :n t'e 0uture4 5e ay 'a"e to t'ink a 9it ore clearly a9out 5'at 'appens i0 certain 9locks 9eco e so o9*ectiona9le t'at you need to recalculate t'e 9lockc'ain 0ro t'at point o"er4 9ut : really dont t'ink you can do anyt'in+ in te=t t'at isnt protected 9y 0irst a end ent speec'4 or could 9e used4 really4 0or a possession c'ar+e4 5'en you 'a"e a9solutely no kno5led+e 5'ats in t'e 9lockc'ain! MMMM &usic MMMM ABL: Today4 : a 'onored to 9e *oined 9y /e00rey Tucker! %es is t'e e=ecuti"e editor o0 Laisse1 2aire Books and a sc'olar o0 ne5 econo ics! /e00rey4 5e"e 9een talkin+ a9out t'e serendipity o0 cryptocurrencies4 like Bitcoin4 +ainin+ e=posure and popularity4 durin+ t'is ti e 5'en t'e oney 5e all use isnt doin+ so 'ot! :s t'is an e<ual and opposite reaction4 or is so et'in+ else 'appenin+ 'ere;

/T: : dont t'ink its a coincidence at all t'at 5e sa5 t'e rise o0 Bitcoin at t'e ti e t'at 5e"e seen it: ri+'t a0ter t'e currency crisis o0 .00S! T'at really put e"ery9ody on notice: so et'in+ is not 5orkin+ a9out t'e syste ! :ts e=actly t'at period t'e re+ulators4 t'e 2ed4 t'e Treasury and e"eryt'in+ - t'ey sent t'e 5'ole syste into a +i+antic up'ea"al t'ats 0unda entally c'an+ed its 5orka9ility! Banks today dont 5ork anyt'in+ like 5'at t'ey 5orked like ten years a+oG its a co pletely di00erent operation! T'ey ake oney in a di00erent 5ay t'eir reser"es are 'andled in a co pletely di00erent 5ay4 t'e 2ederal (eser"e is totally dedicated to ta pin+ do5n interest to 1ero4 to ne+ati"e! &oney and t'e 0inancial syste *ust isn6t 5orkin+ t'e 5ay it used to 5ork4 so Satos'is in"ention4 Bitcoin4 co es alon+ really at e=actly t'e ri+'t ti e! :ts kind o0 t'e per0ect stor in any 5ays! ABL: T'e onetary syste 'as already o"ed to kind o0 t'e 0uture o0 oney4 e=cept 0or all t'e people like us4 5'o are still stuck 'ere usin+ t'e oney t'at 5e"e 9een usin+ all alon+! :ts *ust not t'e sa e t'at it used to 9e! /T: 8ell4 one o0 t'e e=citin+ t'in+s a9out usin+ di+ital currencies4 alternati"e currencies4 is t'at you +ain a reali1ation o0 so et'in+ t'at you can read a9out in 9ooks4 9ut it really co es 'o e to you once you start actually en+a+in+ in real transactions 5it' alternati"e pri"ate currencies4 like Bitcoin! @ou suddenly reali1e t'at t'e dollar syste 4 t'at t'e 5orld oney syste 4 in any 5ays is nationali1ed4 and 'as 9een 0or a9out a 'undred years at least! So et'in+ 0unda ental c'an+ed in ,K,H 5it' t'e ad"ent o0 central 9anks! :t 9asically eant t'at a kind o0 carteli1ed +o"ern ent structure nationali1ed our oney4 and t'e results a 'undred years later are not pretty to see! 8e"e seen assi"e depreciation4 o0 course4 take place4 9ut also continuin+ le"els o0 9usiness cycles and it 5orsened at e"ery sta+e! 8'et'er it 5as in t'e ,KH0s or 5'en Ji=on 0inally closed t'e +old 5indo5 a0ter t'e collapse o0 Bretton 8oods! 8e"e 9een on kind o0 t'is lon+-run e=peri ent4 5'ere oney 'as 9een 9asically ana+ed 9y +o"ern ent and its connected po5er structure4 5it'in a "ery sta+nant and ancient sort o0 a+in+ institution called con"entional 9anks! T'is 0ully da5ns on you once you 0irst kind o0 +et en+a+ed in akin+ 9itcoin transactions! @ou suddenly reali1e4 No'4 t'is is t'e 5ay oney could 9e 5orkin+ in t'e di+ital a+e! : see it essentially as an unstoppa9le 0orce! T'e di+iti1ation o0 oney is co in+ - i0 its not already 'ere - and its *ust +oin+ to +ro5 ore and ore as t'e years +o on and t'e +o"ern ent structures are *ust +oin+ to continue to 0ail! : ean t'ere are certain analo+ies out in t'e 5orld! @ou can look at t'e 5ay ails 'a"e +one 0ro 9ein+ purely onopoli1ed 0ro pu9lic policy4 essentially 0ro t'e early days o0 t'e repu9lic up until t'e in"ention o0 e ail4 and t'en t'e 5'ole syste kind o0 9le5 apart! And 5e sa5 t'e in"ention o0 a totally ne5 5ay o0 doin+ t'in+s4 t'at 9le5 our inds4 t'at 5ere ne5 5ays t'at 5ere uni a+ina9le in4 say4 t'e ,K60s! Jo5 5e take t'e 0or +ranted4 9ut t'e sa e kind o0 t'in+4 you kno5 - it also 'appened in education4 it6s 'appened in 'ealt'care4 it6s 'appened to a lot o0 sectors! 8ell no54 t'e sa e 0orce o0 inno"ation and di+iti1ation4 c'oice is a00ectin+ oney and 0inance4 and : t'ink t'ats +oin+ to 9e our 0uture!

ABL: :"e 'eard t'is ar+u ent 9e0ore4 t'at 5e are essentially +oin+ to see essentially +o"ern ent oney or le+acy currencies as : like to call t'e 4 9eco e kind o0 o9solete! But t'ere see s to 9e an in'erent con0lict in t'ere4 9ecause 5'ile t'e ail analo+y 5orks to a certain e=tent4 +o"ern ents dont transact ail in order to 0und +o"ern ent! But t'ey do do t'at 5it' currency! So isnt t'ere kind o0 a clas' t'ats ine"ita9le 'ere; /T: 8ell4 yea'! @ou can ake it a clas'! : t'ink its really up to pu9lic policy4 and t'e re+ulators! :0 t'ey 5ant to ake it a clas'4 t'ats 0ine! : dont t'ink t'ey can 5in i0 t'ey 5ant to ake it t'at! But its also "ery possi9le t'at durin+ t'e rest o0 our li0eti es 5ere +oin+ to 9e operatin+ 5it' parallel syste s4 and any people around t'e 5orld are used to t'is4 in t'e 5orld o0 oney and 9ankin+! ?ollar users and t'e de"eloped 5orld arent usually used to t'at sort o0 t'in+! 8'ere youre *u++lin+ se"eral di00erent currencies4 you are keepin+ "arious e=c'an+e rates in your ind all t'e ti e4 9ut people o0 t'e de"elopin+ 5orld 5it' e=c'an+e controls and 0i=ed relations'ips 9et5een t'eir kind o0 cruddy local currency and t'e dollar4 are used to t'is! T'ey sort o0 +ro5 up 5it' t'is syste and t'is is 5'at t'ey li"e 5it'4 so t'eres not'in+ 5ron+ 5it' parallel syste s - co petin+ currencies4 as t'e Qunintelli+i9leR called it! ABL: T'e t'ird 5orld to t'e OS ?ollar analo+y is an interestin+ one4 9ecause : t'ink t'at its +ood 9ut its also 9rin+s up4 a+ain - it 9rin+s us 9ack to t'ese issues! T'e reason t'at people in a t'ird 5orld country use t'e dollar as a parallel syste is 9ecause t'eir currency t'at t'ey use on a local 9asis is not "ery "alua9le in certain conte=ts! So isnt t'at 5'ere 5e are no5 5it' 9itcoin; Be0ore you 'a"e t'e cryptocurrencies4 pretty uc' any currency t'ats out t'ere is a currency created 9y 0iat4 created 9y +o"ern ents and 9acked4 essentially4 9y t'ose +o"ern ents t'at created t'e ! Bitcoin presents a ne5 type o0 co petition enterin+ t'e arket! As 0ar as : can tell4 t'ere 'asnt really 9een anyt'in+ like it t'at 'as t'is decentrali1ed no real control structure 0or any particular or+ani1ation or +roup! :t *ust 0eels t'at t'e ot'er currencies 9eco e sort o0 secondary in nature i0 you play out t'is lo+ic to its lo+ical conclusion! /T: 8ell4 : t'ink t'at t'ats ri+'t! T'eres also a "ery interestin+ t'in+ t'at 'appened 5it' Satos'is in"ention 'ere! %e kind o0 looked at t'e operation o0 t'e +old standard and 9uilt into 9itcoin4 5'at people sort o0 put do5n as t'e de0lationary tendency! : like to look at it as a relentlessly risin+ in purc'asin+ po5er! T'ats possi9le *ust 9ecause o0 t'ese "ery strict li its on inin+ and t'en t'e ulti ate 0inal li it on 5'at can 9e created! @ou 'a"e 5it'in 9itcoin an unusually sound currency! :ts e"en radically sound! :ts e"en sounder t'an a ,Kt' century +old standard! :ts kind o0 se"ere and strict in so e 5ays! T'e arket 5ill tell4 and : t'ink t'at 0ro y readin+ o0 onetary t'eory and onetary 'istory t'at t'e sound currency 5ill e"entually pre"ail! Fn t'e ot'er 'and4 5'at you call le+acy currencies 5ill continue to 9e4 o9"iously 5ill 9e in de and 0or t'e conduct o0 pu9lic policy and t'at sort o0 t'in+4 and : t'ink t'ose can e=ist side-9y-side! &y re0erence to t'e de"elopin+ 5orld is "ery uc' s'aped 9y an e=perience : 'ad so e years a+o 5'en : tra"eled to Jicara+ua4 and at t'e ti e4 t'e +o"ern ent 'ad "ery strict e=c'an+e controls on t'e local currency as it relates to t'e dollar! T'ey 'it you at t'e airport4 and t'ey 5ould 'it you at t'e o00icial oney e=c'an+es! @ou +ot on t'e street and t'ere 5ere kids t'at 5ere C and S years old up and

do5n t'e 9lock e=c'an+in+ currency 5it' tourists! T'ey keep up 5it' t'e rates! T'ey kne5 a lot o0 at'! T'ey kne5 a lot ore t'an t'e tourists t'e sel"es and t'e rates 5ere constantly c'an+in+ 9ecause it 5as a 'i+'ly in0lated currency at t'e ti e! T'ey 5ere *ust aster0ul at it! : 'ad to lau+' at it 9ecause : t'ou+'t 5ell 'ere you 'a"e t'ese poor peasants in so e poor country actually doin+ ore co ple= 0inancial transactions t'an ost A erican sc'ool kids could e"er do! :ts a "ery co plicated syste 9ut t'ey ana+ed to - : t'ink its t'e kind o0 t'in+ 5e are +oin+ to see in t'e 0uture! : sure you 'a"e 9een t'rou+' t'is too 9ut4 i0 you +o t'rou+' an entire day or t5o 5'ere youre usin+ 9itcoins 0or your 0inancial transactions4 0or retail purc'ases and t'in+s4 you do 9e+in to e=perience a kind o0 ental s'i0t takin+ place4 e"en 5it' your o5n ind! @ou 9e+in to price t'in+s in ter s o0 9itcoins! @ou can see t'is 9it o0 e er+ent psyc'olo+y o0 5'at its like to use t'is ne5 currency! T'at 5as "ery e=citin+ 0or e! :ts a ind-openin+ e=perience! : t'ink t'at in t'e 0uture 5ere all +oin+ to +et used to t'is ore and ore! ABL: Fn t'is s'o54 5e"e 'ad t'e lu=ury o0 9ein+ a9le to kind o0 operate in an entirely 9itcoin ecosyste 4 5'ere our listeners donate and our ad"ertisers pay in 9itcoin4 and 5e are a9le to use t'ose 9itcoins to pay our contractors! : actually *ust kind 'anded o00 a 9usiness card creation pro*ect 0or 0!. 9itcoins to so eone 5'o4 : 'a"e no idea 5'ere t'ey are4 it doesnt really atter 5'ere t'ey are4 it *ust atters t'eir <uality o0 5ork! :ts a really really interestin+ process and it lets us 5ork 5it' ne5 people "ery <uickly instead o0 'a"in+ to +o t'rou+' so e sort o0 pay ent processin+ syste ! /T: @ea' t'at is so t'rillin+4 t'ats so e=citin+! : 0elt it - : 'a"e to tell you t'at : 0elt it t'e "ery 0irst ti e! 8ell4 so e9ody donated a 9itcoin to e at so e point4 not a 0ull - : ean it 5as so e s all 0raction4 so : 9e+an to sell o00 so e o0 t'e +oods t'at : 9rou+'t 5it' e to a particular con0erence 0or 9itcoins 9ecause people 5ere 9uyin+ t'e ! But : 'ad enou+'4 actually4 to use one online! &y 0irst purc'ase 5as so e=citin+ - easier t'an A a1on ,-Click you *ust 0eel like you are transported to t'is 0uture 5orld! Actually4 you al ost 0eel like an idiot t'at you 9ou+'t into t'e old syste ! Actually4 t'e 0irst ti e you use 9itcoin4 you see t'at t'e le+acy currency syste 4 or 5'at : call t'e +o"ern ent currency syste 4 is *ust so old 0as'ioned 9y co parison! : 0elt a sense o0 0li+'t: 5'at it ust 'a"e 9een like to 9e in t'e Aitty %a5k 0or t'e 0irst ti e! :ts *ust suc' an incredi9le kick4 and you cant really +o 9ack! : t'ink t'is is 5'y people +et so dedicated to 9itcoin a0ter usin+ it *ust a little 9it! @ou 9e+in to reali1e t'e possi9ilities and it *ust c'an+es your 5'ole outlook on li0e! : t'ink 5e need to reali1e4 too4 t'at t'e e er+ence o0 t'is as a currency4 and e"en as a pay ent syste 4 presents a lot o0 c'allen+es to sort o0 t'e intellectual elite 5'o 'adnt really entirely - youll notice t'eres sort o0 a deart' o0 acade ic papers on t'e su9*ect4 ri+'t; T'ey are *ust no5 e er+in+ and people are tryin+ to catc' up4 tryin+ to 0i+ure out 5'at t'e 'eck is +oin+ on! 8e are li"in+ in a real ti e e=peri ent 'ere in 5'ic' t'e real 9uyin+ and sellin+ o0 indi"iduals4 t'e real inno"ations playin+ t'e sel"es out4 t'e di+ital a+e arket-econo y4 are ser"in+ as a kind o0 institutionali1ed p'ilosop'er-kin+ teac'in+ +o"ern ents and intellectuals so et'in+ a9out t'e 5orld t'at t'ey didnt kno5 9e0ore! :ts +oin+ to cause o0 a re"ision o0 a lot o0 onetary t'inkin+ and a lot o0 t'inkin+ a9out t'e 5orld! T'is is not a political t'in+4 really! T'e le0t is c'allen+ed 9y t'is4 t'e ri+'t is c'allen+ed 9y t'is! All t'e old assu ptions are 9ein+ 9lo5n up 9y real-ti e arket e=perience! : 5as t'inkin+ a9out t'is last ni+'t - 5it' Satos'is in"ention! T'e usual pat' is t'at you propose an idea4 t'ro5 it out

to t'e acade ic *ournals4 it +ets peer re"ie5ed4 all t'e old tenured pro0essors knock t'e idea around4 kill t'e youn+ +uy or 5'ate"er4 and t'en t5enty years later4 ay9e you start to see it e er+e4 9ut t'ats not 5'at 'appened in t'is case! Satos'i proposed t'e idea and t'en t're5 it out t'ere4 discussed it 0or a 5'ile and t'en disappeared a+ain! T'e t'in+ is playin+ itsel0 out in real ti e arket conditions! T'e peer re"ie5 process is t'e arket itsel0! And t'e intellectuals are *ust scra 9lin+ to keep up! :ts a "ery intri+uin+ process to 5atc'! : kno5 t'at in y o5n t'inkin+ 'as 9e+un to s'i0t t'at 0ate0ul day4 5'en : ac<uired 9itcoin and t'en 9e+an to use it4 it s'ocked e and no5 : reali1in+ :"e carried around a lot o0 errors in y 'ead 0or any years4 you kno5; : t'ink a lot o0 people are +oin+ to start seein+ t'is! ABL: Fn t'e su9*ect o0 ne5 econo ics in t'e Austrian Sc'ool - as its +ro5n in popularity o"er t'e last couple o0 years4 kind o0 alon+side and on top o0 9itcoin4 actually - t'eres 9een a lot o0 skepticis co in+ 0ro t'at co unity! : kno5 youre a relati"ely ne5 con"ert to t'e cryptocurrency t'ou+'t! 8'y do you t'ink t'at is and 5'ats t'e *ourney; /T: @ou kno54 it6s interestin+ t'at you 5ould ask e t'at <uestion 9ecause it 'as 9een <uite a *ourney4 a little 9it o0 a pri"ate *ourney actually! Because : 'a"e 9een steeped in onetary t'ou+'t 0or a "ery lon+ ti e - : 5rote y under+raduate t'esis on t'e +old standard4 'ad lon+ 9een a +old standard ad"ocate4 0ou+'t all t'e onetary 5ars 9et5een t'e Austrians and t'e Aeynesians and t'e &onetarists and so on! @oure e 9edded in t'is 5orld lon+ enou+' you t'ink you kind o0 kno5 e"eryt'in+ t'ere is to kno5! : +uess :"e 'eard so e *a99erin+ a9out 9itcoin4 a year or so a+o4 ay9e a couple o0 years a+o4 9ut : didnt pay uc' attention to it 9ecause it see ed to e t'at it o9"iously contradicted e"eryt'in+ : t'ou+'t : kne5! : 9elie"ed t'at : kne5 t'at a oney 'ad to e er+e out o0 a real co odity used in t'e real 5orld! 2irst as a 9arter and t'en as a kind o0 speculati"e "enture4 as indirect e=c'an+e4 and t'e 5'ole process t'at people nor ally assu e 5it' t'e (e+ression T'eore ! So 9itcoin co es out o0 no5'ere and y 0irst t'ou+'t 5as D5ell4 t'is is o9"iously untrue4 it cant 9e t'e case!E But as : 9e+an to look at it4 : t'ink 5'ats 'appenin+ 'ere is t'at 5e sort o0 0ail to understand t'at 5e are li"in+ in a ti e 5'ere code - really 5ell 5ritten code - is e=tre ely "alua9le! :ts o9"iously a co odity4 its 9een t'e dri"in+ 0orce o0 t'e 5orlds econo y 0or t'e last H0 years! So its not necessarily a contradiction to t'e Austrian "ersion to see crypto+rap'y used to create a currency t'at 'as all t'e properties o0 t'e de0inition o0 a currency in e"ery sin+le respect t'at e er+es essentially out o0 a co odi0ied code! @ou 5ould e=pect t'at4 : t'ink4 in a di+ital a+e! : t'ink 5e need to reali1e t'at t'e 5orld c'an+ed dra atically o"er t'e last .0 years - essentially i+rated 0ro t'e p'ysical to t'e di+ital 5orld - so it akes sense t'at oney 5ould take t'at sa e tra*ectory! But e"en t'en4 : still 5asnt con"inced 9ecause t'e real 9eauty o0 t'e di+ital sp'ere is its capacity 0or in0inite reproduci9ility o0 e"eryt'in+! : ean4 t'ats 9een t'e source o0 its econo ic a+ic in so any 5ays! 8ell4 in t'e oney 5orld4 you dont 5ant in0inite reproduci9ility! @ou 5ant strict scarcity and you 5ant strict title o5ners'ip! @ou dont 5ant co ons and you dont 5ant all t'ose sort o0 in0inite 0eatures o0 di+ital edia pertainin+ to oney! : t'ink it 5as 0ro readin+ a 8ired a+a1ine article or so et'in+4 : 9e+an to reali1e t'at Satos'i understood t'e sa e t'in+4 and 9uilt into t'e structure o0 t'e protocol is strict assi+n ent o0 title and o5ner4 sort o0 tricked di+ital edia into replicatin+ per0ectly and e"en i pro"in+ on t'e 9est onetary syste you could e"er 'ope to de"elop in t'e p'ysical 5ord! : 5as so da11led 9y t'e 9rilliance o0 t'e inno"ation t'at it *ust knocked e o00 y c'air4 : *ust couldnt 9elie"e 5'at :

5as seein+! T'ats 5'en it clicked 0or e4 suddenly4 and t'en : sort o0 reali1ed its "ia9ility and its co pati9ility 0ro 5'at : kne5 9e0ore4 alt'ou+' : 'ad to adapt y o5n t'inkin+! : al5ays ur+e people t'at are skeptical o0 9itcoin *ust to look a little ore in dept' at it - not *ust read t'e 5'ate"er press story t'at 'appens to 9e in t'e 8all Street /ournal - 9ut to look at t'e ore detailed 5ork on it: e=a ine t'e code4 5'ere it ca e 0ro 4 t'e t'inkin+ t'at 5as 9e'ind it4 t'e operation o0 t'e syste ! T'e ore you look at it t'e ore you reali1e4 DNF'4 y +oodness! Fkay4 : 9e+innin+ to understand 'o5 t'is 5orks and 5'y t'is 5orks!E ABL: : 'a"e it in y 'ead t'at i0 a nation 5ere to issue t'eir currency 9acked 9y 9itcoin reser"es: a nation like Cyprus or )reece or so e place 5'ere t'ey are 'a"in+ a lot o0 trou9le 5it' not only sta9ility 9ut also 5it' corruption in t'e +o"ern ent and +ra0t , speci0ically! :0 t'ey 5ere a9le to lea"e t'e Euro4 issue a currency 9acked 9y 9itcoin reser"es kept in one or any transparent 5allets4 it could kind o0 operate like a odern +old standard yet not 9e su9*ect to t'e +a es t'at can 9e played 5'en t'e reser"es are locked in a "ault 'idden 0ro si+'t! A : issin+ so et'in+ 'ere; /T: T'ats "ery interestin+! @oure sort o0 touc'in+ into so e o0 y o5n intellectual tra*ectory 'ere4 in t'inkin+ a9out t'e relations'ip 9et5een 9itcoin and t'e +old standard! Fne o0 its ad"anta+es is precisely t'at it doesnt 'a"e to 9e locked a5ay: t'at it can 9e 'eld 9y users! T'e corruption o0 t'e current onetary syste really 9e+ins 'al0 a illenniu a+o 5'en 9ankers 0irst persuaded users to let t'e keep t'eir +old 0or sa0ekeepin+ and t'en 9e+an to de"elop loan arkets 9ased on kind o0 0ractional syste ! 8it'in 9itcoin4 t'ats essentially i possi9le! : ean you can 'a"e loan arkets 9ut t'eres a "ery strict o5ners'ip to e"eryt'in+! Plus t'ere is no need 0or t'e 5are'ousin+ 0unction traditionally understood 9ecause o9"iously 9itcoins are not 'ea"y and you can carry t'e around and t'e indi"idual can keep t'e in cold stora+e! @ou dont 'a"e t'at potential 0or corruption t'ere! :n so any 5ays4 its an i pro"e ent! : intri+ued 9y t'e possi9ility t'at 9itcoin i+'t 'a"e a stran+e e00ect t'at none o0 us understand and : t'ink 5e 'a"e to prepare oursel"es 0or surprises! @ou and : could talk 0or 3S 'ours a9out t'is su9*ect and 9rainstor and still iss t'e t'in+ t'at 5ill ulti ately 'appen 'ere4 9ut : do t'ink its interestin+ to i a+ine t'e possi9ility t'at 9itcoin 5ill end up i pro"in+ +o"ern ent syste s o0 oney4 *ust in t'e sa e 5ay t'at all co petition i pro"es e"ery +ood and e"ery ser"ice! Central 9anks i+'t 9e discoura+ed 0ro e+re+ious 'aircuts t'at t'ey atte pted in Cyprus in t'e 0uture! 8e could see +o"ern ents 0ir in+ up t'e <uality o0 t'e oney to pre"ent a run out 0ro t'e currency into di+ital currency! 8e could see dra atic c'an+es in onetary policy4 in 5'ic' 9itcoin 9eco es a kind o0 a teac'er to +o"ern ents and 0iscal 9anks a9out 'o5 to run a sound onetary syste ! T'at could 'appen4 9ut : t'ink t'e 5orlds population 5ould 9e 9etter ser"ed 9y sound oney t'an t'e current syste 4 so 'o5e"er 5e +et t'ere4 : all 0or it! ABL: /e00rey : noticed t'at Laisse1 2aire Books4 L2B!or+4 does not accept 9itcoin 0or e 9ers'ip! Are t'ere any plans to ake a o"e in t'at direction;

/T: @ea'4 t'eyre 9i+ plans and e"ery9ody is 5orkin+ like cra1y to ake it 'appen! L2B is a su9sidiary o0 A+ora 2inancial 5'ic' is in turn a su9sidiary o0 A+ora :nc!4 5'ic' is a 9i+ +lo9al corporation 5it' a9out 64000 e ployees internationally and a uni0ied accountin+ syste ! ABL: Jot as si ple as *ust t'ro5in+ up a 9utton on t'e 5e9site! /T: @ea'4 you kno54 its 0unny 'o5 it is4 its actually not a surprise to you at all4 it 5ouldnt 9e a surprise to any9ody 5'o 5orks in 5e9 co erce4 9ut its a lot easier 0or s all institutions to inno"ate in t'ese ed+y areas t'an it is 0or lar+e old institutions! : 5ill tell you t'at e"ery9ody at y o00ice - includin+ t'e accountant tea and t'e le+al tea - t'at e"ery9ody is super 0ired up a9out t'is and 5orkin+ really 'ard to t'ink t'rou+' all t'e i plications and i ple ent t'e solutions! T'at akes e 'appy! As lon+ as 5e are akin+ pro+ress4 t'en t'ats +ood4 9ut any9ody else - t'anks to so any o0 t'e inno"ations4 really o"er t'e last 6 ont's - its so easy 0or s all co panies and 9lo+s and any9ody to accept 9itcoin and e"ery9ody s'ould *ust i ediately do t'at! : dont kno5 5'y any9ody 5ould 9e 5aitin+ at all! ABL: %o5 lon+ 'a"e you actually 9een interested in 9itcoin4 9ecause you said you 5ere a5are o0 it 9e0ore4 9ut 5'en did t'at s'i0t 'appen; /T: T'ats a 0ascinatin+ t'in+ 9ecause 5'en : 5as an editor o0 &ises!or+4 : used to +et t'ese 9itcoin su9 issions and : used to t'ink4 DF'4 y +oodness!E :"e al5ays lo"ed code +eeks and t'e code 5orld and : 5rote a ton o0 articles a9out it and really adored t'is sector o0 li0e! T'e t'in+ a9out 9ein+ an editor o0 a pu9lication: t'e pu9lication can only 9e as s art and +ood as its editors4 really4 9ecause editors dont 5ant to run anyt'in+ t'ey dont 0ully understand! So all t'rou+'out .0,,4 really - : +uess : o"ed to Laisse1 2aire in Jo"! .0,, 9ut all t'rou+'out t'at year : 5as +ettin+ lots o0 su9 issions o0 articles on t'e topic! : *ust couldnt 5rap y 9rain around t'e ! : didnt kno5 'o5 to e"aluate t'eir *ud+ ent on t'e atter! :t 9eca e "ery 0rustratin+ 0or e as an editor 9ecause : *ust couldnt really - : 5as learnin+ as : 5as re"ie5in+ t'e articles4 you see 5'at : ean; :ts "ery di00icult to ake t'ose kind o0 *ud+ ents! &ises!or+ itsel0 ne"er said a 5ord a9out t'e su9*ect durin+ t'at entire year! : o"ed to Laisse1 2aire QandR t'at 5as on y list o0 t'in+s to 0inally disco"er! 2inally4 it 'appened to e 5'en : 5ent up to Je5 %a ps'ire 0or a con0erence t'at se"eral erc'ants4 9itcoin-associated erc'ants4 surrounded e and dra++ed e to lunc' and ade e an o5ner ri+'t t'ere on t'e spot4 and t'ats 5'at c'an+ed e"eryt'in+! :ts one t'in+ to sort o0 t'ink a9out a su9*ect a9stractly4 9ut once you possess it4 and Ada 4 : t'ink you kno5 5'at : ean 'ere! T'eres so et'in+ 0unny a9out 9itcoin in particular4 t'at it does 'a"e t'e psyc'olo+y o0 a p'ysical t'in+! @ou do 'a"e t'e e=perience o0 'a"in+ ac<uired so et'in+ real 5'en you +et it! : ean4 its true t'at its all di+ital and all t'e rest o0 it4 9ut you do +et s5ept up in t'is sense o0 o5ners'ip 5'en you 0irst +et your 0irst 9itcoin! So t'at 5as t'e 9e+innin+ o0 t'e process and t'at 5as only4 : t'ink no54 ay9e t5o ont's a+o! @ea'4 so : t're5 ysel0 into it 9i+ ti e4 9ecause 5'en : 5as t'e ad inistrator and editor o0 &ises!or+4 all y pro0essional e=perience is t'at you need to 0ollo5 t'e inno"ators4 you need to see 5'at t'ey are doin+4 9ecause t'at is t'e 0uture! And t'e people t'at put do5n t'e inno"ations4 t'ats sort o0 sociolo+ical cultural i pulse to dispara+e t'e ed+y ne5 t'in+

is al ost al5ays 5ron+! E"entually4 yesterdays cra1y radical idea 9eco es today6s con"entions t'at e"ery9ody *ust assu es are nor al! :"e li"ed t'rou+' t'e cycle a+ain and a+ain! : ean : sa5 it 5it' e ail! T'e 0irst ti e so eone tried to persuade e to +et e ail4 : 5as like4 D8'y do : e"en need t'at; :"e +ot ode and a p'one attac'ed to y 5all 'ere! : could *ust 'ook up to so eone directly!E : couldn6t see t'e need 0or it! 8ell4 : 5as 5ron+ and t'en t'e sa e t'in+ on t'e 8orld 8ide 8e9! 8'en : 0irst looked at it : t'ou+'t4 D8ell t'is is *ust a 5'ole series o0 9ill9oards! Jo di00erent t'an dri"in+ do5n t'e 'i+'5ay! 8'ats t'e ad"anta+e o0 dri"in+ do5n t'is 'i+'5ay;E T'at 5as y 0irst t'ou+'t! 8ell4 : 5as 5ron+! : 9e+an to learn o"er ti e t'at t'eres kind o0 an un0oldin+ process 5it' ne5 tec'nolo+y! 2irst4 its ed+y4 its 9u++y4 it doesnt see particularly use0ul! :t doesnt see like you really need it4 so you 'a"e t'ese early adopters t'at +o into it and try to i pro"e it and ake it ore accessi9le and ake it ore use0ul! By t'e ti e it 9eco es ainstrea 4 e"ery9ody *ust accepts it as a nor al t'in+ and t'ey 0or+et t'at it 5as contro"ersial! : re e 9er 5'en A a1on 0irst 9e+an4 people 5ere puttin+ it do5n! DT'is is ridiculous! T'is is a stupid idea! T'is is not a 9usiness odel! T'is 5ill ne"er +o any5'ere!E ?a"id Broder 0or t'e 8as'in+ton Post 5rote a colu n4 : re e 9er4 t'at *ust put do5n A a1on t'at said4 DT'is is not a stock t'at : 5ould 'a"e anyt'in+ to do 5it'! T'is is a disaster! T'is co pany t'inks it can 9uy and sell products usin+ t'e :nternet; 8ell4 5'at akes t'e t'ink t'ey can do t'is 9etter t'an any9ody else; Any9ody can do t'is4 so it 'as no particular ad"anta+e!E %es puttin+ it do5n! And t'en t'e 9ust o0 ,KKK see ed to con0ir all t'e skeptics and t'eir attitudes and t'eir sort o0 t'e luddite attitudes! But o0 course4 o"er t'e 0ollo5in+ ten years4 retail 5e9 co erce s'aped t'e 5orld! 8e are seein+ t'e 5'ole 5orld *ust co pletely re"olutioni1e 0unda entally! &assi"e +lo9al up'ea"als as a result o0 tec'nolo+y and all t'e skeptics 'a"e 9een pro"en 5ron+! : t'ink t'at t'e sa e t'in+ is 'appenin+ 5it' Bitcoin! :"e seen t'is process play itsel0 out too any ti es to not take t'is su9*ect e=tre ely seriously! : t'ink its +oin+ to surprise us and a a1e us4 'o5 t'e 5orld is +oin+ to c'an+e in t'e 0uture4 t'anks to t'is 0unda ental radical inno"ation t'at +oes to t'e 'eart o0 econo ic li0e o0 people and nations! ABL: Fne o0 t'e reasons t'at people are +ettin+ into it is 9ecause t'e price 'as +one up <uite a 9it! Jo54 you said t'at you +ot in"ol"ed a9out t5o ont's a+o! To so e people t'e price is i portant4 so e people not so uc'! 8'ere do you stand on t'e issue; /T: @ea'! 8ell4 its 0unny! Je59ies are al5ays 0ocused on t'e price4 ri+'t; Fnce you +et a little ore sop'isticated4 you reali1e 5'at atters is 0unctionality ore t'an anyt'in+ else! :ts not a co odity t'at you *ust 5ant to treat as a speculati"e in"est ent! :ts purpose is to e er+e as a real eans o0 pay ent! :ts an e er+ent oney4 not *ust a speculati"e "enture! But yes4 : li"ed t'rou+' t'e soarin+ up to P.66 and t'en 9ack do5n a+ain ri+'t at t'e sort o0 da5n o0 y ent'usias 0or t'is sort o0 t'in+! So 0or e to 5atc' 5as e=tre ely intri+uin+ and it caused e to +o 9ack in 'istory and see 'o5 t'ose played t'e sel"es out in real ti e! : looked at t'e railroad industry as a +ood e=a ple o0 t'is! (ailroads 5ere su9*ect to 5ild speculati"e 0ren1ies at t'e ti e 9ecause t'ey 5ere entered into real arket conditions! And people 'ad4 at t'e ti e - : talkin+ in t'e ,SC0s - 'ad a 'ard ti e distin+uis'in+ 9et5een railroads as a tec'nolo+y and seein+ 5'at t'at tec'nolo+y 5ould do 0or ci"ili1ation! T'e sort o0 unrelentin+ up'ea"als t'at 5ould co e a9out 0ro t'e stock prices o0 particular railroad co panies! :ts 'ard to separate t'ose t5o t'in+s! T'eres al5ays a cro5d o0 people

out t'ere +oin+4 D8ell4 t'e railroad stock : 9ou+'t at PH0 is no5 PH4 so clearly t'ere is no 0uture to railroads!E : t'ink t'ere is an i pulse to do t'at 5it' 9itcoin! Fr t'e re"erse4 DT'e railroad stock +ot 9ou+'t at PH4 is no5 PH04 so clearly4 t'eres a 0uture to railroads!E T'e trut' is 5e 'a"e to separate t'ese t'in+s in our inds! 8e 'a"e to separate out t'e speculati"e aspect o0 cryptocurrencies 0ro t'e tec'nolo+ical use0ulness! :t6s not al5ays easy to do4 9ut in t'e real 5orld4 all +reat tec'nolo+ies co e o0 a+e4 de"elop4 and ature 5it'in real 5orld arket conditions! T'e 5ise people 5ill understand t'e di00erence and super0icial people 5ill *ust 0ollo5 prices up and do5n! : doin+ y 9est to detac' ysel0 a little 9it 0ro its e=c'an+e rate4 9ecause : reali1e t'ats so et'in+ o0 a distraction 0ro t'e lar+er issue4 and yet at t'e sa e ti e4 : as 9ad as any9ody! :0 : 5ake up at .a 0or no apparent reason and y s artp'one is 9y y ni+'tstand4 : pick it up and yes4 : dont c'eck y e ail4 : c'eck t'e e=c'an+e rate! QLau+'terR! :ts 9ad! :ts a disease4 : tell ya! ABL: :t took e a9out 6 ont's! A0ter a9out 6 ont's4 : 5as a9le to - : ne"er c'eck t'e price any ore4 its really +reat4 and its 9een really 0reein+ to e 9ecause it eans t'at : can - : t'ink t'at t'e railroad analo+y is a really +ood one t'ere4 9ecause youre totally ri+'t! (ailroads c'an+ed t'e 5orld not 9ecause o0 t'eir stock price 9ut 9ecause o0 5'at t'ey o00ered and 5'at t'ey could do! 2or e4 t'ats t'e ost e=citin+ part a9out 9itcoin - is t'at it ena9les all o0 t'ese t'in+s t'at you *ust cant do in ot'er circu stances! /T: @ea'4 t'ats true4 and its true 5it' e"ery tec'nolo+y is t'is 5ay! &arkets tend to 9ecause +reat tec'nolo+ies enter t'e real 5orld arket conditions4 t'ey are su9*ect to t'is unrelentin+ "aluation 9ased on t'e potential 0or speculati"e pro0its! Fne t'in+ : a tryin+ to +et 9etter a9out is - : not spendin+ a 5'ole lot o0 ti e en+a+in+ in de9ates a9out people on t'e :nternet! NSo eones 5ron+ on t'e :nternet4 :ll +o to dinner later4 ri+'t; But people 5'o *ust 0ocus solely on t'e e=c'an+e rate and its potential 0or pro0its! : t'ink early in"estors o0 9itcoin are +oin+ to do "ery 5ell in t'e 0uture! 8'at 'appens 9et5een no5 and t'at 0uture 5e *ust dont really kno5! 8e are kind o0 in a 0unny situation! : sure you looked at t'e data4 too4 5e"e seen assi"e increases in *ust pu9lic interest in 9itcoin e"er since t'e price ran up! :n a 5ay t'at price run up did a lot o0 +ood in ter s o0 ABL: :ts a 9eacon4 yea'! /T: @ea'! But at t'e sa e ti e its kind o0 'ar 0ul 9ecause it distracts people 0ro t'e core issue! Bitcoin is 0unny 9ecause : t'ink all o0 us 'a"e 5is'es o0 5'at 5e t'ink 5e 5ant to 'appen 5it' it! A9out a ont' a+o4 : 'ad t'is kind o0 5is' in y ind t'at it 5ould sta9ili1e around P,00 and stay t'ere 0or t'e ne=t <uarter! T'e 9est t'in+ a9out 9itcoin is t'at none o0 us controls it! :t really is a erc'ant order t'at is an or+anic product o0 t'e social order itsel0! 8it' all t'e +reat co 9inations o0 t'e di"ision o0 la9or4 erc'ants4 intellectuals4 codeslin+ers4 e"ery9ody cooperatin+ to+et'er in t'is "ast +lo9al syste t'ats so pro+ressi"e4 and so inno"ati"e4 and e=citin+! :ts a 9eauti0ul t'in+ t'at none o0 us +et our - none o0 our 5is'es co e true4 in a 5ay! : could 5is' 0or a certain e=c'an+e rate4 : could 5is' 0or it to stay t'at 5ay 0or a certain a ount o0 ti e4 9ut : totally prepared to see 9itcoin take its o5n pat'! : see ysel0 less as a pro+nosticator or prop'et o0 t'e t'in+! : en*oy t'inkin+ o0

ysel0 as a student ore t'an anyt'in+ else! T'eres a lot t'at all o0 us can learn *ust 0ro 5atc'in+4 and in"esti+atin+4 and e=a inin+ closely t'e e er+ence o0 t'is tec'nolo+y! 8e 'a"e to re e 9er *ust 'o5 0ortunate 5e are as a +eneration to 9e 5atc'in+ all o0 t'is take place in real ti e! T'is 'asnt 'appened to any ot'er people in t'e 'istory o0 'u anity - to 5atc' so et'in+ like t'is 'appen! T'is is a +reat4 i0 you 9elie"e in t'is sort o0 t'in+ its a 9lessin+ really! :ts a teac'a9le o ent! 8ere +oin+ to learn a lot a9out t'e 5ay t'e 5orld 5orks and can 5ork in t'e 0uture *ust 9y 5atc'in+ t'e e er+ence o0 9itcoin4 and seein+ t'e de"elopin+ sop'istication o0 t'e erc'ants4 and its price and its tra*ectories4 and t'e response 0ro t'e re+ulators! Bitcoin is a kind o0 sociolo+ical icrocos o0 'o5 reality un0olds 9e0ore our eyes! 8ere seein+ it all 'appenin+ so 0ast and 'appenin+ so any a+ical and 9eauti0ul 5ays! :ts *ust a +reat ti e to 9e ali"e! : consider it a 9eauti0ul present in y o5n li0e to 9e a9le to 'a"e t'is presented to e at y 0eet4 and : can un5rap it4 and 5atc' it4 and play 5it' it! :ts a 9eauti0ul t'in+! ABL: /e00rey Tucker! Laisse1 2aire Books! L2B!Fr+! T'ank you 0or your ti e! /T: T'ank you4 Ada ! MMMM &usic MMMM