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Scot
: Okay – confirm that this is just a semantics issue for me:
 
Gears of Wa 
r is a firstperson shooter.
 
True or false?
Ryan
: False.
Scot
: Why?
Ryan
: 'Cause the majority of the game is third person.
Scot
: That's semantics.
Ryan
: That's the default POV.
Scot
: What im getting at is, to me it doest matter the point of view, because it plays likean FPS - right down to the control scheme.
 
Thus, if i had to categorize it as 3d personaction or FPS, I'd put it under FPS.
Ryan
: Matters less how it controls and more how it looks.
 
It's not in first-person, so it'snot a first-person shooter.
Scot
: It shares every single gameplay element with first person shooters. Control herematters more than looks, because if you take out the on-screen character model, youstill play the game the same exact way.
 
The third person viewpoint here is more asytlistic decision than an actual gameplay impacting one, I say.
Ryan
: But that's the
difference 
between a third-person shooter and a first-personshooter anyway.
 
Take __
Jet Force Gemini 
__.
Scot
: What is a third person shooter?
 
No such genre exists.
Ryan
: Fine, just a shooter, then.
Scot
: Fair enough.
Ryan
: I called it third-person for comparison's sake.
Scot
: More separates __
Jet Force Gemini 
__ from FPS than __
Gears of War 
__, though.
 
What of an FPS that give the option to play in third person, does playing in third personrender them non-FPS?
 
Now, I know no such option exists for __
Gears of War 
__.
Ryan
: I take issue with calling it "first-person" anything, because it's not first person.
Scot
: But what I'm getting at is the way a game plays, ie: gameplay, matters a hell of lotmore than such a trifling detail.
Ryan
: Sure, but lord of the rings is a fantasy movie, even though it has all the charactermarkings of a straight-up drama.
Scot
: Alright - another example:
 
__
Devil May Cry 
__.
 
Is a third person shooter.
Ryan
: __
Devil May Cry 
__ is an action game.
 
I know that you shoot, but isn't most ofthe action done with swordplay?
Scot
: Depends on how you play it, i suppose.
 
You could melee everything in __Halo__,too.
Ryan
: Yes, but are you supposed to shoot everything in __
Devil May Cry 
__?
Scot
: It's far easier that way.
Ryan
: Hm.
Scot
: They don't really force you into one way of doing it, to be honest.
 
Swords lookflashier, guns kill faster.
Ryan
: I'd be hesitant to call it a shooter, though.
 
There's so much more going on.
Scot
: The term FPS grew because people needed something to call
 __Wolfenstein__
,because it was clearly not a 'shooter' like
 __Gradius__
.
 
But at this point, I'd say that it'scome to define a genre in which certain aspects are present.
 
And by now, its evolved tothe point where i dont think the "F" is a totally integal part.
 
Take
 __Unreal 
 
 
Championship 
 
2__
:
 
it was an "FPS" - you ran around, shot things, but it pulled to thirdperson for melee.
 
Hell, you could play the whole game in third person
Ryan
: I could play through side-scrolling shooters without actually shooting.
 
But itdoesn't make them something else.
Scot
:
 __Ikaruga__
bullet eater.
Ryan
: Right.
 
Doesn't make it not a shooter.
Scot
:
 __Viewtiful 
 
Joe__
,
 __Odin 
 
Sphere__
.
 
Both use the same perspective, and aredifferent games.
 
I do not see why perspective makes a difference anymore, especiallywhen, at this point, it seems like such an arbitrary decision with regards to FPSs.regarding UC2 – so is it not an fps?
Ryan
: It is.
Scot
: So, what happens when i play in 3rd person?
Ryan
: Nothing happens
Scot
: Why?
Ryan
: Why should anything happen?
 
It's the same game.
Scot
: Why is it the same though?
 
Because of how its played?
 
Because a simpleperspective change, doesnt really change whats at the core?
Ryan
: Sure.
 
But it doesn't change the fact that gears is not in first person.
 
I'm notsaying you're wrong in attemping to break down these arbitrary divides, but calling athird-person game first-person anything is just incorrect.
Scot
: Okay so you're telling me that despite the fact that it shares everything else incommon with any number of other console FPSs, the simple fact that its not in firstperson completely invalidates everything else? Calling it a "third person shooter thatplays exactly like an FPS" is more accurate (not saying it isn't, just asking if that's whatyou're saying).
Ryan
: I wouldn't label a novel written in third-person as first-person.
Scot
: Right, because that's different.
Ryan
: How?
Scot
: Narration perspective in novels is a major element of the story.
 
__Gears ofWar__ tells its story through first person anyway.
 
You are Marcus Fenix - you justhappen to see him all the time.
Ryan
: But there are first- and third-person novels that share narrative elements.
 
Thatline is blurred too
Scot
: It's not a third person story, you don
ʼ
t know where the Locust are.
 
You're aslimited as a narrator in the first person.
 
But that's applying the terms to something elseentirely.
 
First and third person mean different things in video games and novels.
 
Enough so that I don
ʼ
t think that's a valid comparison.
 
Just to be sure i understandhere:
 
you'd call __
Gears of War_
_ a game that plays like a FPS, but is in third person?
Ryan
: Yes.
 
I don't disagree with anything you've said about the game.
 
Other than thefirst-person aspect of the label.
Scot
: Well, as long as you can concede that.
 
See, this is what bothers me.
 
I gotoWikipedia, and it lists GoW as third person shooter.
 
Okay, fine.
 
So, I click the label,and the first screenshot is of __
Resident Evil 4 
__.
Ryan
: Hm.
 
But this is wikipedia we're talking about here.
Scot
: I wouldn
ʼ
t really call __
Resident Evil 4 
__ a shooter by any means anyway,though.
 
Ryan
: Right.
Scot
: But it also lists stuff like
 __Grand 
 
Theft 
 
Auto__
,
 __MDK__
,
 __Metal 
 
Gear 
 
Solid__
,and
 __Splinter 
Cell__.
Ryan
: All are incorrect.
Scot
: Well, no.
 
__Grand Theft Auto__ is a third person game, you shoot stuff.
Ryan
: But it's not a shooter.
Scot
:
 __MDK__
is a shooter.
Ryan
: It's not the core of the game.
Scot
: Ugh.
 
And
 __Gears of War__,
the core of the game is not that its in third person.
Ryan
: I know.
 
It's a shooter.
 
-person just modifies it.
Scot
: I mean – hell, you even directly control the characters viewpoint.
Scot
: Which is a hallmark of the first person genre.
Ryan
: Not all the time, though.
Scot
: But thats not the core of the game.
 
That's an aside.
 
We can forgive asides.
 
Ninety percent of the time in
 __Halo__
, I'm not driving.
 
When I'm driving it's no longerfirst person.
 
Most of the game is spent with direct control of the characters head.
Ryan
: Okay, I've figured it out.
Scot
: The third person perspective lacks anything that i would consider hallmarks of3ps, while retaining most of the ones associated of 1ps.
Ryan
: It's important that gears is in third-person, and not first.
Scot
: Hit me
Ryan
: Because of point of view, you're taking cover, your character is facing you head-on, you see what's going on behind him, and it's important for your success in thegame.
Scot
: Right, that's fine.
 
You can do that in an FPS, too.
 
See
 __Perfect Dark: 
 
Zero__
.
 
 __Killswitch__
, for example, because of the way the camera works.
 
You can control it, itgives you a more overhead view.
 
Not an over-the-shoulder-attached-to-a-five-foot-invisible-pole-FPS-like view.
 
I would not call
 __Jet 
 
Force 
 
Gemini__
a first personshooter.
 
__
Gears of War_
_, I would though, because it behaves exactly like one, inliterally every single respect.
 
Behavior, not appearance.
 
Which is a better indicator ofthe nature of things.
Ryan
: Let's say you come across a pear.
 
And you can check back and make sure it'sbeen raised just like every other pear you've ever eaten.
 
But this one somehow tasteslike a cheeseburger.
 
Is it no longer a pear?
Scot
: So its a cheeseburger that looks like a pear?
 
Is basically what you're telling me.
 
Iwould say "No, that is a cheeseburger."
 
People would not believe me, and I wouldinstruct them to eat it.
Ryan
: And they would say it tastes like a cheeseburger.
 
What an interesting pear youhave.
Scot
: If a cow goes "baaaa" its not a sheep.
Ryan
: No.
Scot
: I'll give you that.
Scot
: But again you're pulling in something that is not a game, and comparing it to agame.
Ryan
: I'm comparing things with different surfaces and interiors.
Scot
: That are not games, if I'm being narrow.
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