Ralph Simms Testimony

Case 2:07-cr-01215-SJO Document 755 Filed 12/01/2008 Page 1 of 137
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
WESTERN DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) CASE NO: CR-07-01215(A)-SJO

)
Plaintiff, ) CRIMINAL
)
vs. ) Los Angeles, California
)
KENYAN TERRANCE PAYNE, SR., ) Wednesday, November 26, 2008
ET AL., ) (8:35 a.m. to 12:03 p.m.)
)
Defendants. )
JURY TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE S. JAMES OTERO,

UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
Appearances: See next page
Court Recorder: Margarita Lopez
Deputy Clerk: Victor P. Cruz
Law Clerks: Emily Churg

Kerry Begley
Transcribed by: Exceptional Reporting Services, Inc.

14493 S. Padre Island Drive
Suite A-400
Corpus Christi, TX 78418-5940
361 949-2988
Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording;

transcript produced by transcription service.
EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC
2
APPEARANCES FOR:
The Government: ROSALIND WANG, ESQ.

KERRY C. O’NEILL, ESQ.
WILLIAM A. CROWFOOT, ESQ.
Assistant United States Attorney
312 North Spring Street
Los Angeles, CA 90012
FBI: Agent James Smith
Oscar Dillon: JOHN P. ROGERS, ESQ.

MICHAEL MERESAK, ESQ.
Attorney at Law
120 S. Central, Suite 130
St. Louis, MO 63105
Tracy Prince: ROBERT M. ROSS, ESQ.

Klass, Helman, and Ross
16133 Ventura Blvd., Suite 1145
Encino, CA 91436
Roy Burris: DAVID KALYONIDES, ESQ.

624 South Grand Ave., Suite 2200
Demond Lee: PETER CARL SWARTH, ESQ.

4804 Laurel Canyon Blvd., Suite 232
North Hollywood, CA 91607
Bernard Beard: JAMES PERNELL COOPER, III, ESQ.

5777 W. Century Blvd., Suite 750

3
INDEX
WITNESS FOR THE DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

GOVERNMENT
Ralph Simms
By Ms. Wang -- 10
By Mr. Rogers -- 12
By Mr. Swarth -- 14
By Mr. Kaloyanides -- 17
Andrew Lindholm
By Ms. Wang 19 --
By Mr. Swarth 29 --
Fernando Mata
By Ms. Wang 37 --
By Mr. Swarth 46 --
Daniel Corral
By Mr. Crowfoot 52 --
By Mr. Rogers 111 --
EXHIBITS
GOVERNMENT’S EXHIBITS RECEIVED
Number 88 39
Number 89 40
Numbers 90 and 91 41

4
1 Los Angeles, California; Wednesday, November 26, 2008;8:35 a.m.
2 Call to Order
3 THE CLERK: Please come to order. This Court is
4 again in session.
5 THE COURT: Okay. Please have a seat. We’re back on
6 the record on United States versus Payne. All Counsel are
7 present with the Defendants.
8 Mr. Simms is back in the witness chair. The
9 Government has rested with Mr. Simms yesterday. What’s the
10 request?
11 MS. WANG: Oh, I’m sorry, your Honor. I didn’t
12 realize that I had rested. I assumed that we were going into
13 redirect and the only reason we had cut off was because it was
14 time to cut off.
15 THE COURT: Well, we had redirected.
16 MS. WANG: I mean re-redirected.
17 THE COURT: How many re’s do you -- are you
18 requesting?
19 MS. WANG: I’m not requesting any, your Honor. I
20 just --
21 THE COURT: Well, what do you need to cover?
22 MS. WANG: I just wanted to go into some of the --
23 THE COURT: Well, what’s the offer of proof?
24 MS. WANG: Well, it’d just be --
25 THE COURT: As to why the Court should allow you to

5
1 reopen?
2 MS. WANG: The only issue is that I think the Defense
3 is left with the impression that Mr. Simms has lied throughout
4 his proffer --
5 THE COURT: I think that’s the impression that the
6 Court has.
7 MS. WANG: But I think that --
8 THE COURT: And I think that’s a reasonable
9 impression.
10 MS. WANG: And I think Government will want to
11 clarify that with Mr. Simms.
12 THE COURT: Well, what parts are you going to
13 clarify?
14 MS. WANG: Well, I think the -- I think what the
15 witness would say is that he lied through his first proffer but
16 did not subsequently lie after that.
17 (Pause)
18 THE COURT: Every time Mr. Simms is asked a question
19 he seems to tell a different story. For example, with Exhibit
20 268 the 11 page conversation regarding Mr. Burris, he’s
21 testified on direct and redirect regarding the -- his
22 understanding of certain portions of the conversations, on
23 cross-examination he testified that he doesn’t really remember
24 what the conversation was really about and there -- the
25 question is whether he’s referring to the entire conversation

6
1 or only portions of it. He says Mr. Burris was never involved,
2 never bought, never sold, never assisted, never helped -- does
3 the Government have more than this?
4 MS. WANG: Really it was just to clarify the -- those
5 -- that situation with the proffers.
6 THE COURT: No, but in reference to Mr. Burris, for
7 example.
8 This witness has said Mr. Burris was never involved
9 in drug sales, drug purchases, never assisted, never aided,
10 never abetted, never profited. Does the Government have
11 another witness that it intends to call to -- regarding Mr.
12 Burris?
13 MS. WANG: Well, just in regards to the witness, Mr.
14 Simms, your Honor. He has said that Mr. Burris was going to be
15 paid from the marijuana transaction. And he has testified
16 that, in these several calls, Mr. Burris was giving him updates
17 as to how the marijuana was selling in St. Louis.
18 So the Government not’s --
19 THE COURT: They had conversations about drugs that
20 may be the case. But it’s not clear to the Court that Mr.
21 Burris was involved at all in drug sales.
22 MS. WANG: But your Honor, in order for Defendant
23 Burris to be guilty of conspiracy, he doesn’t have to have been
24 actively selling the drugs or transporting the drugs. But the
25 fact that he’s in St. Louis and he’s giving status updates and
7
1 he expects that he’ll be paid out of the drug sales --
2 THE COURT: Paid for what?
3 MS. WANG: I’m sorry?
4 THE COURT: What was he getting paid for? What’s the
5 Government’s theory? He was getting paid for what? Doing
6 what?
7 MS. WANG: Well, for the introduction to the source.
8 THE COURT: Pardon?
9 MS. WANG: The introduction to the source of supply.
10 And --
11 THE COURT: And that’s what this witness is going to
12 testify to?
13 MS. WANG: Well, I think he’s already testified that.
14 THE COURT: Well, look. I don’t know what this
15 witness has said involving Mr. Burris. And I would hope that
16 the Government has a stronger case that what I’ve heard so far.
17 (Pause)
18 THE COURT: I don’t know how many times you can say
19 that Mr. Burris was not involved.
20 MR. KALOYANIDES: And your Honor, if I may just
21 clarify. Mr. Simms testified he was going to give money from
22 the sale, not that Mr. Burris was getting money for doing
23 anything.
24 THE COURT: Exactly.
25 MR. KALOYANIDES: That was his testimony.

8
1 THE COURT: And I -- the question -- the question is
2 what he getting money for?
3 My question is to the Government. What is he getting
4 money for? What’s Mr. -- what’s your theory for the case?
5 What is Mr. Burris getting money for?
6 MS. WANG: Well, I mean he’s out there in St. Louis
7 and he’s giving status reports to Simms as to how the marijuana
8 is selling and --
9 THE COURT: I don’t interpret what this witness has
10 said as providing status reports. Now, I don’t know how many
11 times he can say that Mr. Burris was not involved in this -- in
12 these drug transactions.
13 MS. WANG: Well, but the evidence does show that Mr.
14 Burris was involved.
15 THE COURT: No, it does not. Not so far.
16 MS. WANG: And Defendant Burris is also on the phone
17 calls.
18 THE COURT: At best, if you could draw -- if you
19 could draw two reasonable interpretations from the evidence so
20 far, one which points to guilt and one which points to
21 innocence. Assuming best case scenario for the Government, one
22 which points to guilt and one which points to innocence. The
23 jury must adopt the interpretation that points to innocence.
24 That’s the definition of reasonable doubt.
25 So, look -- look, you can proceed with your case, but
9
1 I would -- I’m waiting for more than what the Government has
2 offered. If this is the best that the Government has involving
3 Mr. Burris then you may have a problem with your case.
4 So I’ll let you reopen because I think the Government
5 should be given additional opportunity to prove its case. So
6 let’s bring the jury in and you can reopen.
7 (Pause)
8 (Jurors enter the courtroom)
9 THE COURT: We have our jury coming into the court
10 with the alternates. Welcome everyone.
11 All Defendants are present with Counsel. We continue
12 with the Government’s case-in-chief.
13 Would you please have a seat, Mr. Simms?
14 (Witness takes the stand)
15 THE CLERK: Good morning, sir.
16 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
17 THE CLERK: Once again you are reminded you are still
18 under oath. For the record please state your name and then
19 spell your last name.
20 THE WITNESS: Ralph E. Simms, S-I-M-M-S.
21 THE CLERK: Thank you, sir.
22 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
23 THE COURT: The Government is pursuing a re re-direct
24 of Mr. Simms because the Government has additional questions.
25 Go ahead.
Simms - Further Redirect by Ms. Wang 10
1 MS. WANG: Thank you.
2 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
3 BY MS. WANG:
4 Q Mr. Simms, you had talked about lying through your first
5 proffer with the Government on -- in March of 2008. Subsequent
6 to that do you recall meeting with the Government in April,
7 2008?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And did you lie through that proffer as well?
10 A May I read it just to be sure? May I read it?
11 Q Yes, it’s Defense Exhibit 307.
12 (Pause; Witness reads Defense Exhibit 307)
13 A No, I didn’t lie through this one.
14 Q And do you recall meeting with agents in St. Louis and
15 Atlanta?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And did you lie to the agents in St. Louis and Atlanta
18 during your meetings with them?
19 A No.
20 Q When you were conducting these meetings -- or when you in
21 these meetings, who was directing the questioning? Did the
22 agents ask you specific questions or did they just ask you to
23 tell them whatever you knew about the case?
24 A They asked me to tell whatever I knew about the case.
25 Q Did they ask you about specific people or did they just
Simms - Further Redirect by Ms. Wang 11
1 leave it open-ended?
2 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Leading.
3 THE COURT: Overruled.
4 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question again?
5 BY MS. WANG:
6 Q Did they ask you to talk about specific people or did they
7 just leave it open-ended as to what you wanted to talk about?
8 A It was -- just left it open-ended.
9 Q All right, so they -- the agents didn’t give you a topic
10 that they wanted you to talk --
11 MR. ROGERS: Objection. This is leading and
12 suggestive, your Honor.
14 THE WITNESS: No.
15 BY MS. WANG:
16 Q All right. You mentioned earlier that Defendant Burris
17 expected to be paid for the marijuana transaction in fall of
18 2007. Why were you going to pay Defendant Burris?
19 A Is that the guy that I had got the marijuana from -- you
20 know I met him through Burris, so it was just because I met him
21 through Burris. That way, you know, me and Lewis had talked,
22 we’s like well, since we met him through him and that’s --
23 we’re just going to pay him. Cause of that.
24 MS. WANG: I have nothing further, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: That’s it?

Simms - Further Recross by Mr. Rogers 12
1 MS. WANG: That’s it, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. Rogers.
3 MR. ROGERS: Thank you, your Honor.
4 FURTHER RECROSS EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. ROGERS:
6 Q John Rogers on behalf of Mr. Dillon.
7 Mr. Simms, do you understand the term “lie by
8 omission”?
9 A Yes.
10 Q That means when you don’t tell the whole truth and then
11 you purposely don’t say something. Correct?
12 A Correct.
13 Q And that can be deceptive true -- also. Is that correct,
14 sir?
15 A Correct.
16 Q All right. And just a moment ago Ms. Wang asked you a
17 number of questions concerning your proffer on -- in April of
18 2008. You remember that, sir?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And in nowhere -- and you said, through her questioning,
21 that the agents didn’t hit you with a bunch of point-blank
22 questions. Correct, sir?
23 A Correct.
24 Q What they said was they wanted to know whatever you knew.
25 Right?
Simms - Further Recross by Mr. Rogers 13
1 A Right.
2 Q And that wasn’t -- that allowed you to tell them what you
3 knew. True?
4 A True.
5 Q And so -- you know, a couple days ago you made some
6 general comments that you had been dealing with Mr. Dillon in
7 2005 in the narcotics business. You remember that?
8 A Correct.
9 Q You didn’t give a bunch of specifics, you just said in
10 2005. Right?
11 A Correct.
12 Q That information was not conveyed at any point in time
13 when you had an opportunity to speak with those agents in April
14 2008. Was it, sir?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Right. And so you omitted that information according to
17 what you’re saying today. Correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And that’s deceptive, if you’re to believe what your story
20 was two days ago. Right?
21 A No. You think I could have got everything in in one
22 meeting? I don’t think so.
23 MR. ROGERS: Nothing further.
24 THE COURT: Any additional questions?
25 MR. KALOYANIDES: Yes, your Honor.

Simms - Further Recross by Mr. Swarth 14
1 MR. SWARTH: Excuse me, we’re out of order. I’m
2 going to have some questions, but I don’t want --
3 MR. KALOYANIDES: Oh, I’m sorry, your Honor.
4 MR. SWARTH: -- to step on Mr. Kaloyanides.
5 THE COURT: No, let’s pursue the same order.
6 MR. KALOYANIDES: I’m sorry, your Honor.
7 MR. SWARTH: Oh, I’m sorry, sir.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Swarth.
9 MR. SWARTH: You want to go? Okay.
11 BY MR. SWARTH:
12 Q I want to follow up very briefly on that last line of
13 questioning.
14 You agree that to omit is also to lie? If you admit
15 the truth -- omit the truth. Correct?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Now you say you were being honest with the agents after
18 that first interview in November. Correct?
19 A Correct.
20 Q And you met with them in March?
21 A What I said -- may I ask the question again?
22 Q What -- now -- let me ask my question. Okay?
23 You said that you were -- you told them whatever you
24 could think of, any lie you could think of, when you were
25 having your post-arrest interview. Is that correct?

1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. But we did establish yesterday that the information
3 regarding Tweety was accurate in that interview. Correct?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Now you also had an interview in March of 2008.
6 Correct?
7 A Correct.
8 Q You had an interview in April of 2008? Correct?
9 A Correct.
10 Q Is that correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q And you had an interview in August of 2008. Correct?
13 A Correct.
14 Q And in none of those -- none of those interviews did you
15 ever mention the name Demond Lee? Correct?
16 A Well, for the --
17 Q Is that correct?
18 A That’s correct.
19 Q Okay. And you did just testify that you were -- you were
20 offering to the Government that was not asking you pointed
21 questions everything you knew. Correct?
22 A Correct.
23 Q Okay. The last thing I want to ask you is I just want to
24 see if I can identify your relationship with Mr. Lee. Am I
25 correct, did you tell me that your mother and Mr. Lee’s
1 grandmother were sisters?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And during -- we established yesterday that you went --
4 when you went to prison on your murder conviction Mr. Lee was
5 still a little boy. Correct?
6 A Correct.
7 Q Is it true, however, that on visiting days the family
8 would bring him along with other members of the family up to
9 visit you?
10 A Correct.
11 Q And so he saw you as he was growing up. Correct?
12 A Correct.
13 Q And so then -- there was not a total separation, though
14 you were away from society essentially for almost 18 years,
15 there was still an opportunity to have some closeness, some
16 relationship with Mr. Lee and other members of your family.
17 Correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And when he would come to Los Angeles on his business as a
20 trucker, he would stay with you. Correct?
21 A Correct.
22 Q Okay. I thank you.
23 MR. SWARTH: I have no further questions. Thank you,
24 your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Anyone else? Mr. Kaloyanides?

Simms - Further Recross by Mr. Kaloyanides 17
1 MR. KALOYANIDES: Thank you, your Honor.
3 BY MR. KALOYANIDES:
4 Q Good morning, Mr. Simms.
5 A Good morning, sir.
6 Q This morning Ms. Wang asked you a question and she phrased
7 it that Mr. Burris expected to be paid from the marijuana deal
8 you were doing with Mr. Lewis.
9 You didn’t testify that Mr. Burris expected to be
10 paid, did you?
11 A No. What I said was -- you know, after we met the guy,
12 Ryan Dean (phonetic) that gave us the weed, the marijuana, was
13 -- that me and Lewis talked about it and then we told them --
14 you know, we felt that we was going to pay them because we met
15 the guy through him.
16 Q Right. And yesterday you also testified, and correct me
17 if I’m wrong, that Mr. Burris did not introduce you to Mr. Dean
18 so that you could get marijuana. Right?
19 A Right.
20 Q You met him because he’s a friend of Mr. Burris’s. Right?
21 A Right.
22 Q You also testified, and again, correct me if I’m wrong,
23 that Mr. Burris went to St. Louis for vacation. Right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q He was not going there to give you updates on Mr. Lewis’s

Simms - Further Recross by Mr. Kaloyanides 18
1 drug transactions. Right?
2 A Right.
3 Q He was not going there to be your status report man.
4 Right?
5 A Right.
6 Q He was not there to monitor the sales. Right?
7 A Right.
8 Q You called him up because you hadn’t heard from Mr. Lewis.
9 Right?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And you knew that Mr. Burris, your best friend, would tell
12 you the straight story about what he may have known. Right?
13 A Right.
14 Q And you were not paying him for that. Were you?
15 A No.
16 Q Thank you.
17 MR. KALOYANIDES: Nothing further, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Anyone else? May be witness be excused?
19 MS. WANG: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.
20 THE COURT: Thank you, sir, for your testimony.
21 (Witness is excused from the stand)
22 THE COURT: Next witness.
23 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government calls Andy
24 Lindholm.
25 THE CLERK: Good morning, sir.

Lindholm - Direct by Ms. Wang 19
1 MR. LINDHOLM: Good morning.
2 THE CLERK: Sir, would you please stop and raise your
3 right hand to be sworn?
4 ANDREW LINDHOLM, GOVERNMENT’S WITNESS, SWORN
5 THE CLERK: Thank you, sir. Please be seated.
6 THE COURT: We just lost a light.
7 THE CLERK: Sir, for the record, would you please
8 state your name and spell your last name?
9 THE WITNESS: Charles Andrew Lindholm, L-I-N-D-H-O-L-
10 M.
11 THE CLERK: Thank you.
12 THE COURT: Your witness.
13 MS. WANG: Thank you.
14 DIRECT EXAMINATION
15 BY MS. WANG:
16 Q Mr. Lindholm, what is your job title?
17 A I’m a sergeant with the California Highway Patrol.
18 Q And how long have you been with the highway patrol?
19 A Twenty-five years.
20 Q And what are your job responsibilities there?
21 A I am the supervisor of the special enforcement unit which
22 is the inland division’s canine team stationed out of the
23 Rancho Cucamonga area.
24 Q And of the 25 years of -- you’ve been with the CHP how
25 many of it dealt with drug trafficking?

1 A Drug trafficking specifically, I started in about 1992
2 when I was selected as the canine handler for the San
3 Bernardino area CHP office.
4 Before that, working graveyards here in the central
5 Los Angeles area I had been involved in several DUI stops or
6 other types of stops that ended up developing into possession
7 for sales as well as personal possession arrests.
8 Q Are you familiar with secret compartments?
9 A Yes, I am.
10 Q What is a secret compartment?
11 A Compartment is a location that has been modified in some
12 way in a vehicle to enable the driver of that vehicle to hide
13 drugs, weapons, or the money from the sale of drugs.
14 Q And are secret compartments legal?
15 A No, they are not.
16 Q I’m sorry.
17 A They are not.
18 Q Illegal or -- legal or illegal?
19 A They are illegal.
20 Q And under what provisions are they illegal?
21 A Under the Health and Safety Code, 11366.8(a), a felony,
22 states basically that anytime a compartment in a vehicle has
23 been modified in any way to allow the hiding or the secretion
24 of drugs or the products from drug sales, weapons, that they
25 would be guilty of a felony.

1 Q How many secret compartments have you seen in your career?
2 A It’s impossible to say. Personal -- personally arrests
3 that I’ve made have been in excess of a hundred. However, as a
4 canine handler -- I’m also bilingual in Spanish, so on many
5 cases when a partner officer would get a find that had a secret
6 compartment, I would be called out to the scene to assist in
7 translation or to run my dog. So I would observe that
8 compartment even though it wasn’t specifically my arrest.
9 So I would estimate possibly up to a thousand
10 different types of compartments that I’ve been involved in. To
11 see several times that many in classes that I’ve taken or
12 conferences that I’ve attended where they’ve shown photographs
13 of common concealment and new types of compartments that I’ve
14 actually seen, not in person, but through training and
15 photograph. And sometimes even they would remove that
16 compartment and bring it to the conference, such as a seat
17 compartment or a battery compartment inside an auto battery and
18 they would have that battery present there for us to look at.
19 So I’ve seen all of those as well.
20 Q Have you testified as an expert in secret compartments?
21 A Yes, I have.
22 Q How many times?
23 A I would estimate between 20 and 25 times.
24 Q Are there certain common characteristics of secret
25 compartments in vehicles?
1 A Yes.
2 Q What are those?
3 A Many times when a compartment is constructed we are
4 actually looking for or smelling for the presence of those
5 building materials that they would use to construct that
6 compartment. Sometimes a compartment could be inside a fender
7 well where they had to acttally cut an access panel in that
8 fender well in order access the compartment.
9 In order to close that back up to make it appear as
10 though no compartment is there, they’ll use Bondo, spray over
11 it with fresh paint or undercoating. All of those chemical
12 odors are indicators that someone has been in there and created
13 that compartment.
14 Also carpeting, where it shouldn’t be, carpeting
15 glued down in an area where actually the factories or
16 manufacturers of vehicles don’t glue their carpet down. So if
17 we encounter, say, a floor where you try to lift the carpet and
18 look underneath it and that carpet is secured by some kind of
19 glue, then I automatically know that this has been an
20 aftermarket modification because the factories don’t glue their
21 carpets down to the floor.
22 Q All right. Did you participate in the -- in this
23 investigation on August 10th, 2007?
24 A Yes, I did.
25 Q And what did you do in this investigation?

1 A Actually on this investigation I backed up one of my
2 canine handlers, Officer Mike Blane, as he had made a stop
3 northbound on the 15 Freeway in the vicinity of the 395.
4 Q And where -- what city were you in, approximately?
5 A It’s actually an unincorporated area of San Bernardino
6 County, just south of Hesperia, the city of Hesperia.
7 Q And what did Mike Blane pull over?
8 A He pulled over a bob-tailed big rig. That’s a tractor
9 with no trailer. Just the three-axled truck tractor with the
10 fifth wheel exposed and no trailer being pulled behind it.
11 Q Do you mean like a cab without an end?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you see who was the occupant of that -- I guess, the
14 bob-tail, as you call it?
15 A I actually saw the subject out of the vehicle that Officer
16 Mike Blane was talking to at the time I pulled up because I
17 pulled up a few minutes after the actual stop was made.
18 Q And can you describe that occupant?
19 A I recall that he was a black male, thin.
20 Q Do you recognize that person in the courtroom today?
21 A No, not without guessing, I don’t.
22 Q And what did you do after you had pulled in behind Mike
23 Blane?
24 A I placed the subject in the backseat of my patrol car,
25 it’s a caged car where he could be secured, and so that we

1 could search the vehicle in safety.
2 Q And then did you search the vehicle?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And did you find anything significant inside the vehicle?
5 A Yes, we did. As soon as you entered the cab area through
6 the open door there was a strong smell of new wood or fresh
7 lumber. At that point we began searching the interior of the
8 vehicle, saw that there was a gap between the back wall of the
9 sleeper berth area, the very rear of the living space inside
10 that tractor, and the interior wall behind the bed of the
11 sleeper berth.
12 At that point we removed the two closet or
13 compartment, storage compartment areas, plastic shelving
14 basically, in the upper corners of the sleeper berth area. We
15 removed screws holding the back wall in place and were able to
16 pull it forward enough to look down inside that area and saw
17 that there was a constructed compartment.
18 Q Would you have considered that a secret compartment?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Could you take a look, please, there are some manila
21 folders in front of you, Government Exhibits 73 through 81.
22 I’m sorry, 73 through 82. And just look up when you’re done.
23 You recognize this?
24 A Yes, I do.
25 Q What are those?

1 A Those are photographs of the interior sleeper berth area
2 of that compartment.
3 MS. WANG: Your Honor, I’d like to publish what’s
4 been previously admitted into evidence and that’s --
5 THE COURT: Yes, please.
6 MS. WANG: All right. Publishing Exhibit to the
7 Court.
8 BY MS. WANG:
9 Q And do you see what’s up there on the screen?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q Can you explain what that is?
12 A If you are standing between the driver and the passenger
13 seats facing towards the rear of the truck inside the cab, that
14 is the rear sleeper berth wall of that tractor.
15 Q And the box to the left, what is that?
16 A That is that shelving or storage compartment that I said
17 we had to remove in order to access the compartment.
18 MS. WANG: Your Honor --
19 THE WITNESS: And there’s a duplicate one of those on
20 the opposite side.
21 MS. WANG: Your Honor, I’m publishing Exhibit 76.
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q And what is Exhibit 76?
24 A This is that back wall removed exposing the construction
25 of that compartment creating the void. The manufacturer --

1 when that vehicle was manufactured that wall was within an inch
2 of that back wall where you see the number 38, that wood built
3 that compartment out in order to allow that space that you see
4 there now.
5 Q What were approximately the dimensions of this
6 compartment?
7 A Well, the wood that you see there appear to be two by
8 four, perhaps. So, that’s approximately an eight inch gap from
9 the floor of that sleeper berth all the way up six feet high up
10 to the roof, approximately, of the interior of that cab. As
11 you can see it takes that entire back wall, which is
12 approximately eight feet wide, six feet high and at least four
13 inches deep -- or six to eight inches deep with the two two by
14 fours.
15 Q Have you seen cabs that contain secret compartments
16 before?
17 A Yes, I have.
18 Q And based on your experience would you say that this
19 compartment was a common or uncommon type of secret
20 compartment?
21 A Fairly common.
22 Q And did it look like it was finished?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Based on your experience what was that compartment
25 designed to hold?
1 MR. SWARTH: Objection. Foundation.
3 MR. SWARTH: And speculation.
4 THE WITNESS: Well it can hold anything that fit in
5 that location. What it would easily accommodate is double-
6 stacked kilos of cocaine. You could also put in any manner of
7 containers with that width.
8 Now a kilo being solid you could stack more as
9 opposed to say a plastic container or a loose bag of something
10 that could get pinched and broken open. But a kilo container
11 there, I would say that compartment could probably hold
12 anywhere from 75 to 100 kilos of cocaine in that compartment.
13 Q How long did it take you to -- oh, after you opened the
14 secret compartment did you then close it up?
15 A Yes, we did.
16 Q And did it require any special equipment to open?
17 A A Makita screw gun is what we used. Several -- between 20
18 and 50 screws were required to take off those outer shelving
19 compartments that you saw the picture of, as well as the screws
20 holding the plywood in place to the back wall there and to that
21 wood. So, basically it was the screw gun and also a pry bar to
22 pull that wood free from the back in order to look down into
23 the compartment.
24 And when we opened it we did not activate -- if you
25 see that metal latch coming out that actually hooks into what
1 is commonly used in a trunk of a vehicle, a trunk latch. There
2 were two trunk latches holding that compartment closed, we did
3 not pop those latches. We actually removed the whole wall and
4 peeled the wall forward to look down into the compartment
5 without actually activating those latches.
6 Q So --
7 A So to put it back together we just replaced all of the
8 screws that we had removed and pushed it back into position.
9 Q All right. So you did not open it, you believe the way it
10 was designed to open?
12 Q And why did you close up the secret compartment
13 afterwards?
14 A We contacted the requesting officer who asked us to make
15 that stop, Officer Mike --
16 Q And who was -- go ahead.
17 A -- Officer Mike Blane, contacted him and told him what we
18 had found. That we could arrest him for the felony possession
19 of the compartment, but he requested us to just close it up and
20 let the subject go.
21 Q And who was the requesting official?
22 A I have no idea.
23 Q Did you tell the driver of the vehicle what you had found?
24 A No, we did not.
25 Q Or what did you do with the driver of that vehicle after

Lindholm - Cross by Mr. Swarth 29
1 you found that?
2 A We told him that we were sorry that it took so long for us
3 to search his vehicle, but that there was something going on
4 with the walls of his tractor and we couldn’t find anything
5 wrong, but he needed to be careful and that he was free to go.
6 MS. WANG: I have nothing further at this time, your
7 Honor.
8 THE COURT: Any cross?
9 MR. ROGERS: Not for Mr. Dillon, your Honor.
10 MR. COOPER: Not for Mr. Beard, your Honor.
11 MR. KALOYANIDES: No, thank you, your Honor.
12 MR. ROSS: Nothing for Mr. Prince, your Honor.
13 MR. SWARTH: I have a couple of questions.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Swarth.
15 CROSS EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. SWARTH:
17 Q Good morning, sir.
18 A Good morning.
19 Q My name’s Peter Swarth and I represent one of the
20 Defendants’ in this case, his name is Demond Lee.
21 Sir, am I correct that -- do you recall what the
22 grounds were stated for this traffic stop?
23 A Yes. I believe he was speeding was the reason that
24 Officer Blane pulled him over.
25 Q Okay. Are you sure it was speeding or perhaps it was a

1 claim that Mr. Lee had failed to stop at a scale?
2 MS. WANG: Objection. Foundation.
4 THE WITNESS: I’m not sure. Actually I approached
5 after the stop was made. I only recall what Officer Blane told
6 me.
7 BY MR. SWARTH:
8 Q Isn’t it true that whatever the stated grounds for the
9 stop was, this was a prearranged stop? Wasn’t it?
10 A We had previous information that if we saw this vehicle to
11 make a stop on it, yes.
12 Q Okay. And so a pretext was arranged in order to make the
13 stop in order to get inside the vehicle. Isn’t that correct?
14 A No pretext. An actual violation was observed which --
15 Q Well --
16 A -- allowed us to make a legal stop, whether we had known
17 that before or not. However, the focus of the vehicle --
18 Q Well, hang on a second, hang on --
19 A Go ahead.
20 THE COURT: Let him finish his response.
21 THE WITNESS: The --
22 MR. SWARTH: He’s not answering my question.
23 THE COURT: Let him finish his response.
24 MR. SWARTH: Thank you, your Honor.
25 THE WITNESS: The focus on the vehicle was based on

1 the request from an allied agency.
2 BY MR. SWARTH:
3 Q Was the gentleman issued a speeding ticket?
4 A Not that I recall.
5 Q Okay. Now, the officer that made the stop. Was he a
6 canine officer?
7 A Yes, he was.
8 Q Did he have a canine companion that day?
9 A He did.
10 Q And was that canine used in entering the vehicle?
11 A No, it was not.
12 Q So the canine didn’t come out of the officer’s vehicle?
14 Q Would it surprise you if there’s different information?
15 MS. WANG: Objection. Foundation, speculation.
16 THE COURT: Well, that -- it’s -- whether he’s
17 surprised or not it’s irrelevant. It assumes facts.
18 Sustained.
19 MR. SWARTH: Thank you, your Honor.
20 BY MR. SWARTH:
21 Q Did you participate in the search of this vehicle
22 yourself?
23 A Yes, I did.
24 Q Did you go inside?
25 A Yes, I did.
1 Q And did you personally view what you’ve testified to
2 today?
3 A Yes, I did.
4 Q Okay. Did you see any evidence of narcotics?
5 A No. We found no narcotics in the vehicle.
6 Q No residue.
7 A No.
8 Q Correct? No paraphernalia?
9 A No.
10 Q No packaged money?
11 A No.
12 Q Right? It was just empty, it was -- it’s a compartment
13 that you suspect is useable for transporting drugs, but there
14 is no evidence of it being used for transporting drugs.
15 Agreed?
17 Q Was there a particular reason why the canine officer was
18 used to make the stop?
19 A The particular reason is that we are familiar with
20 narcotics investigations and that we were the number that
21 requesting agencies would call.
22 Q Okay. So I mean --
23 A And half --
24 Q -- in other words it was a specific request for a canine
25 unit?
1 A For the canine unit --
2 Q When this stop was going to be made?
3 A Yes. But I also have several non-canine handlers that are
4 part of my team and the request could have just as easily been
5 handed to them.
6 Q But it didn’t, it was handed to the one with the dog?
7 A Correct.
8 Q Okay. How much advance notice did you have on this call?
9 A I don’t recall. Enough time for us to catch up to the
10 vehicle and make the stop.
11 Q Okay. Did -- other than speeding and other than the
12 request from U.S. Government agents to make the stop and
13 search, there were no grounds for you to enter into that
14 vehicle, were there? There was no basis for a search inside
15 that vehicle, was there?
16 A So your question is, if we hadn’t observed a violation and
17 we hadn’t received a --
18 Q Well, let’s --
19 A -- request from the agency we wouldn’t have stopped the
20 vehicle?
21 Q So in other words you don’t understand my question. Let
22 me ask it again. Okay. That would be my fault. Let me try
23 and get it better.
24 Speeding, in your experience, does not in -- a
25 speeding ticket, all on its own, or a speeding violation, since

1 we have no ticket in this case. Is it your experience that
2 that entitles an officer to search the inside of a vehicle?
3 A No.
4 Q You require something more?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Generally, you require a warrant. Right?
7 MS. WANG: Objection. Relevance.
8 THE COURT: It’s going to be sustained on 403. These
9 are legal determinations for the Court to determine.
10 BY MR. SWARTH:
11 Q Other than the speeding and the request by U.S. Government
12 officers, there was no other independent grounds for you to
13 make entry into that vehicle. Correct?
14 A Once the stop was made, yes, there was. However, there
15 has to be probable cause or reasonable suspicion in order to
16 initiate that contact which would be the speeding or the
17 driving by the scales without stopping.
18 Q When you say “once the stop was made” there was cause.
19 Did the driver do something?
20 A It was actually having knowledge of what is normal
21 operating procedures for a truck driver and the circumstances
22 that this particular person gave as to his activities over the
23 previous few days.
24 For truck drivers, for instance, they’re required to
25 maintain a log book which explains how many hours they’ve been
1 driving, how many hours they’ve been off in order to insure
2 that someone driving an 80,000 pound vehicle isn’t going to
3 fall asleep behind the wheel and crash into a bunch of traffic.
4 So there are certain laws that we investigate on a
5 big rig stop different than a regular passenger vehicle stop
6 and there were certain things involved in this stop that were
7 not consistent with the industry of truck driving, but that are
8 consistent with drug trafficking.
9 Q So you’re saying, in other words, you’re saying he didn’t
10 have his logs up to date.
11 A No, not necessarily. It is that a truck driver makes
12 money when he’s driving -- carrying a load. He had driven this
13 vehicle --
14 Q Hang on a second. If I may stop you?
15 A Sure.
16 Q Are you a truck driver?
17 A No.
18 Q Have you been a truck driver?
19 A Never.
20 Q And yet you’re going to speak to me now as to what truck
21 drivers think is important?
22 A That’s correct. Not what truck drivers think are
23 important, but the industry norms.
24 Q And you’re not a member of the trucking industry?
25 A No.
1 Q And you’ve never been a member of the trucking industry?
2 A No.
3 Q Then I think I’ll take a pass. Thanks very much.
4 (Laughter)
5 MR. SWARTH: No further questions.
6 THE COURT: Any redirect?
7 MS. WANG: Nothing further, your Honor, thank you.
8 THE COURT: May the witness be excused? Thank you.
9 THE WITNESS: Certainly, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.
11 (Witness is excused from the stand)
13 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government calls Fernando
14 Mata.
15 THE CLERK: Sir, would you please stop and raise your
16 right hand and be sworn?
17 FERNANDO MATA, GOVERNMENT’S WITNESS, SWORN
18 THE CLERK: Thank you. Sir, please be seated.
19 Sir, for the record, would you please state your name
20 and then spell your last name.
21 THE WITNESS: Fernando Mata, M-A-T-A.
24 MS. WANG: Thank you, your Honor.
25 //
Mata - Direct by Ms. Wang 37
2 BY MS. WANG:
3 Q What is your job title?
4 A I’m a police detective for the city of Redondo Beach.
5 Q And how long have you been with the city of Redondo Beach
6 Police Department?
7 A Twenty-five years.
8 Q And what is your current assignment?
9 A I’m assigned to LA impact, the quarantine group temp.
10 Q And can you explain what that is?
11 A That’s a covert operation informant network intelligent
12 unit.
13 Q What was your assignment in July and August of 2007?
14 A I was assigned to LA impact, group 1, primarily a
15 surveillance team.
16 Q And did you do something in this investigation on July
17 7th, 2007?
18 A Yes, I did.
19 Q What did you do on that day?
20 A I was asked by Special Jim Smith if I would monitor the
21 activity at 748 East 27th Street in the city of Los Angeles.
22 Q And approximately what time did you get to -- or 748 East
23 27th Street?
24 A I arrived at the location at approximately 06:30 hours.
25 Q And what did you see there?

1 A I observed a Nissan Pathfinder parked in the driveway of
2 748 East 27th Street and in the back driveway there was a
3 tractor with Illinois plates on it, blue/silver in color.
4 Q I’m sorry, with what plates on it?
5 A Illinois plates.
6 Q Okay. Where was the tractor parked in relation to the
7 residence?
8 A To the rear of the residence in an alley.
9 Q Could you take a look, please, there’s folders in front of
10 you, at Government’s Exhibit 88?
11 A Eight, eight?
12 Q Eight, eight.
13 MR. SPEAKER: Pardon me, what number are we looking
14 at?
15 MR. SPEAKER: Eight, eight. Thank you.
16 BY MS. WANG:
17 Q Do you recognize that?
18 A Yes, I do.
19 Q What is it?
20 A That is the residence at 748 East 27th Street.
21 Q And is that a photograph?
22 A Yes, it is.
23 Q Have there been any additions made to that photograph? I
24 mean, markings made to that photograph?
25 A Yes, I -- the streets have been labeled and the house --

1 Q And --
2 A -- the house is depicted on the photograph here.
3 Q Including the markings, is that a fair and accurate
4 representation of the area that you were surveilling on July
5 7th?
6 A Yes, ma’am.
7 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit
8 Exhibit 88 and permission to publish?
9 THE COURT: Received.
10 (Government’s Exhibit Number 88 was received in evidence)
11 BY MS. WANG:
12 Q And could you explain on Exhibit 88 where the residence is
13 that you were watching?
14 A It is the -- the residence that I was watching -- the
15 front door faces 27th Street and the alley is off of Stanford
16 Avenue.
17 Q Is it marked on that photograph?
18 A Yes, it is.
19 Q How is it marked?
20 A Stanford Avenue is marked with capital letters there and
21 27th Street is marked just directly in front of the house.
22 Q All right.
23 A And 748 is on the roof.
24 Q And could you point out on that photo where you saw the
25 tractor parked?
1 A In the alley backed into the driveway there where the
2 wrought iron fence is.
3 Q Does that alleyway run parallel to East 27th Street?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Could you take a look, please, at Exhibits 90 and 91. I’m
6 sorry, 89, 90, and 91. Do --
7 A I have 89 in front of me.
8 Q What’s 89? Do you recognize it?
9 A Yeah, that’s the -- excuse me, that’s the residence at 748
10 East 27th Street and the Nissan Pathfinder backed into the
11 driveway.
12 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government --
13 BY MS. WANG:
14 Q Is that a fair and accurate depiction of the residence as
15 you saw it on 7-27?
16 A Yes.
17 Q On 7-7-07?
18 A Yes.
20 Exhibit 89 and permission to publish.
21 THE COURT: I’m assuming no objection. It’s
22 received.
23 (Government’s Exhibit Number 89 was received in evidence)
24 BY MS. WANG:
25 Q And which residence was it that you were watching on

1 Exhibit 89?
2 A The residence I was watching is -- the residence there
3 with the Pathfinder backed in the driveway which is 748 East
4 27th.
5 Q And relative to this picture, where was the tractor
6 parked?
7 A To the rear of this residence.
8 Q And what about Exhibits 90 and 91?
9 A Ninety is -- it’s showing the tractor parked in the alley
10 off of Stanford Street.
11 Q And 91?
12 A Ninety-one is showing the same picture. Just a little
13 closer.
14 Q Are those photos a fair and accurate depiction of the
15 truck as you saw it parked?
17 90 and 91 into evidence and permission to publish.
18 THE COURT: No objection being entered, they’re
19 received.
20 (Government’s Exhibits Numbers 90 and 91 were received in
21 evidence)
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q I’m publishing 90. Did that truck -- or that tractor
24 leave at any point during your surveillance?
25 A On this date?
1 Q On that date.
2 A No.
3 Q Did you see anyone leaving the residence that you were
4 watching on that date?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q Who did you see?
7 A I saw a malE Hispanic, exit the residence. A female
8 Hispanic exit the residence and a young child. And they loaded
9 up into the Nissan Pathfinder and they drove from there to a
10 Bank of America on Figueroa Street.
11 Q Are you able to recognize the male Hispanic by sight?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And could you take a look, please, at Exhibit 178, which
14 has previously been moved into evidence?
15 A I’m looking, it could be misplaced. It’s jumping from
16 one --
17 THE CLERK: What exhibit?
18 THE WITNESS: One seventy-eight, sir. It’s not --
19 THE COURT: Maybe you could publish it on the ELMO.
20 MS. WANG: I’ll publish on the ELMO. It’s been
21 previously admitted.
22 THE COURT: It’s been previously received, yes.
23 MS. WANG: Okay.
24 BY MS. WANG:
25 Q All right. I’m publishing 178. Could you look on your

1 screen?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Do you recognize that?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Who is that?
6 A That’s the subject known to me as Adam.
7 Q And was that the person you saw on that day?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did you also do something in this investigation on August
10 10, 2007?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What did you do on that day?
13 A I had received information from Special Agent Jim Smith
14 that a subject known to me as D-boy was en route on the 10
15 Freeway, probably heading to the area of --
16 MR. SWARTH: Objection. Hearsay. I move to strike
17 it.
18 THE COURT: It’ll be sustained. Ask your next
19 question and then if the -- if Counsel would like it -- a
20 limiting instruction you can so request.
21 MS. WANG: Yes, your Honor.
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q What did you actually do on that day?
24 A I observed a tractor -- I observed a tractor on the 10
25 Freeway at Milliken at the Ontario Truck Stop traveling

1 eastbound on the 10 Freeway.
2 Q And was that the same truck that you saw parked at the
3 residence on July 7th, 2007?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Could you take a look, please, at Exhibit 70? Actually,
6 I’ll just publish Exhibit 70.
7 MS. WANG: It’s been previously admitted, your Honor.
8 BY MS. WANG:
9 Q Could you look on the screen?
10 A Yes, ma’am.
11 Q Do you recognize that exhibit?
12 A That is the tractor. Yes.
13 Q And you said you saw it on the 10 Freeway?
14 A It was traveling eastbound on the 10 Freeway, off of
15 Milliken, just north of the truck stop.
16 Q And what did you do when you saw that truck?
17 A I engaged in a surveillance of that vehicle.
18 Q Could you see who was driving that truck?
19 A Yes, I could.
20 Q Where were you at the time that you could see who was
21 driving that truck?
22 A I was coming up to -- in the number one traffic lane,
23 eastbound on the 10 Freeway at about Milliken when I observed
24 the tractor in the number 4 traffic lane. I was at a dead stop
25 in traffic and as I looked over to my right, through my window,

1 I could see a male African American driving that vehicle and I
2 had previously seen him on previous surveillance and he was
3 known to me as D-boy or --
4 Q All right. I’ll just stop you there.
5 MR. SWARTH: Again, objection. Move to strike.
6 Hearsay.
7 THE COURT: Motion granted.
8 MS. WANG: All right, so --
9 MR. SWARTH: I will ask for an instruction, your
10 Honor.
11 THE COURT: The jury’s ordered to disregard it.
12 BY MS. WANG:
13 Q Could you describe the driver of the vehicle?
14 A Yes. He was a male African-American --
15 Q All right.
16 A -- he had short hair, he was fairly tall, he was thin and
17 from previous --
18 Q All right. I’ll just stop you there. Do you see the
19 driver in the courtroom today?
20 A Yes, I do.
21 Q Could you describe what he’s wearing and where he is?
22 A He’s sitting in the second row in the back there with
23 about a number 1 haircut with a plaid shirt.
24 THE COURT: Well, I’m not sure --
25 THE WITNESS: I can’t see over there --

Mata - Cross by Mr. Swarth 46
1 THE COURT: -- a number 1 haircut is very short.
2 THE WITNESS: Very short, very short, haircut.
3 (Laughter)
4 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Those are all just -- right
5 there with the Defense Counsel scratching his head right now.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Indicating the Defendant.
7 MS. WANG: Thank you, your Honor. Nothing further at
8 this time.
9 MR. ROGERS: No thank you on behalf of Mr. Dillon,
10 your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Any questions?
12 MR. COOPER: No questions on behalf of Mr. Beard.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Swarth, any questions?
14 MR. SWARTH: Oh, okay, I’m -- I was just waiting for
15 Mr. Ross.
16 THE COURT: Mr. Ross? No?
17 MR. ROSS: Nothing, your Honor.
18 CROSS EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. SWARTH:
20 Q Good morning, sir. My name’s Peter Swarth.
21 A Good morning, sir.
22 Q And I represent Defendant -- the -- one of the Defendants’
23 in this case, his name is Demond Lee.
24 On July 7th, when you first started your
25 surveillance, is that when you initiated your surveillance?

1 A On that particular date, yes.
2 Q Okay. On that particular location?
3 A That day, yes.
4 Q Well, is that the day that you initiated your surveillance
5 of that location?
6 A I had other surveillances prior to that there.
7 Q Of that location?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Okay. Was the truck present at that location on any
10 previous occasions?
11 A I believe so.
12 Q When?
13 A I can’t recall right now without looking at the complete
14 report.
15 Q Did you see the truck arrive at the location?
16 A No.
17 Q Did you see who drove the truck to that location?
18 A No.
19 Q Do you know offhand when the truck arrived at that
20 location?
21 A Without referring to the report I can’t answer that, sir.
22 Q In other words you don’t have an independent recollection?
23 A That is correct.
24 Q Right. Otherwise, you’ve been able -- you feel you’ve
25 been able to testify today without referring to a report.

1 Correct?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Now, you say you saw the driver of the vehicle on August
4 10th on the 10 Freeway. Correct?
6 Q And that you had an opportunity to look from -- by the
7 way, when you made the observations that you spoke about about
8 seeing the driver in the vehicle next to you -- am I correct,
9 that it was next to you?
10 A Two lanes over.
11 Q Two lanes over. Were you -- and the -- I think you had
12 the truck in the number 4 lane. Correct?
14 Q And for those who might not be initiated the number 4 lane
15 is actually the one closest to the exit lane. Correct?
17 Q And the number 1 lane is the high speed lane?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Okay. So this truck was over in the slow lane?
21 Q And at the time that you saw the vehicle it was at a stop?
22 A I was at a stop in traffic.
23 Q You were at a stop. Was the truck at a stop?
24 A No, sir.
25 Q So you made your observations. You saw this person and

1 based on this view you were able to make an identification.
2 The vehicle was moving past you and you were stopped in traffic
3 two lanes over. Correct?
4 A Correct.
5 Q And am I correct in assuming that you did not simply stop
6 on a freeway with traffic whizzing by you on all the other
7 lanes?
8 A No. It was --
9 Q Traffic was stopped in all the --
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q -- except the number 4 lane which was moving.
12 A Number 4 -- he was merging onto the number 4 lane, yes.
13 Q Okay. And for how long did you surveil this vehicle from
14 that point?
15 A I surveilled that vehicle until I could have California
16 Highway Patrol initiate a traffic stop on the vehicle.
17 Q Can you give me distance or time?
18 A Probably 30 minutes.
19 Q Okay. And are you saying you observed for 30 minutes and
20 then you asked CHP to initiate the stop or is it 30 minutes
21 until the stop?
22 A Thirty minutes until the stop.
23 Q Okay. And you were on the 10 or the 15, what highway were
24 you following this vehicle on?
25 A Traveling the 10 East to the 15th -- the 15 North.

1 Q And what were traffic conditions that day?
2 A It was tight for a while there until we got onto the 15
3 Freeway.
4 Q Okay. Did it open up on the 15?
5 A It wasn’t bumper to bumper and you weren’t flowing at 60
6 or 70 miles an hour. It probably was about 30 miles an hour,
7 35 miles an hour.
8 Q Okay. All the way up on the 15?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q So it was about 30 or 35 until we had the traffic stop?
11 A Correct.
12 Q Is 30 miles an hour speeding on the California freeways?
13 A No, sir.
14 Q Okay. Thank you.
15 MS. WANG: Objection, relevance.
16 MR. SWARTH: I have no further questions.
17 THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.
18 MR. SWARTH: I’m sorry?
19 THE COURT: The objection was sustained.
20 MR. SWARTH: Then let me -- I’m sorry. If I may
21 then, let me -- I didn’t anticipate the Court’s ruling, so let
22 me try and ask a different question, a different way, if I may.
23 BY MR. SWARTH:
24 Q Did you -- in calling the CHP, to make a stop. That was
25 your intention. Correct? Calling CHP and have them stop this
1 vehicle. Correct?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Let me try it -- some foundation. Before you became a
4 detective, you’re with the Los Angeles Police Department?
5 A Redondo Beach Police Department.
6 Q Redondo, I’m sorry, my mistake. Before you became a
7 detective you were a patrol officer?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q You handled traffic offenses?
10 A Spent six years in the traffic bureau.
11 Q You’re familiar with what speeding means? What it --
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q The truck wasn’t speeding, was it?
14 MS. WANG: Objection, relevance.
15 THE COURT: It’s sustained, it’s sustained on 403, in
16 relevance.
17 MR. SWARTH: Thank you. No further.
18 THE COURT: Any -- anyone else?
19 MR. KALOYANIDES: No, thank you, your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Redirect?
21 MS. WANG: No, thank you, your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Thank you sir, for your testimony.
23 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.
24 (The witness is excused from the stand)

Corral - Direct by Mr. Crowfoot 52
1 MR. CROWFOOT: Your Honor, the United States calls
2 Daniel Corral.
3 THE COURT: Hold on. Is Mr. Corral here?
4 MR. CROWFOOT: Yes, your Honor, he’s here.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. CROWFOOT: The agent went to get him.
7 THE CLERK: Sir, please come forward. Sir, would you
8 please stop and raise your right hand this morning?
9 DANIEL CORRAL, GOVERNMENT WITNESS, SWORN
10 THE CLERK: Thank you, sir. Please be seated.
11 Sir, for the record would you please state your name
12 and then spell your last name?
13 THE WITNESS: Daniel Corral. Corral, C-O-R-R-A-L.
16 MR. CROWFOOT: Thank you, your Honor.
18 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
19 Q Good morning, Mr. Corral. Would you tell the jury please,
20 how old you are?
21 A I just turned 34.
22 Q Where were you born?
23 A Culver City, California.
24 Q Where did you grow up?
25 A Culver City.
1 Q How far did you get in school?
2 A Tenth grade.
3 Q What happened after 10th grade?
4 A After 10th grade I just --
5 MR. ROGERS: Objection, relevance.
7 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
8 Q Did you drop out of school?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Are you married, Mr. Corral?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And what is your wife’s name?
13 A Yvonne Vasquez.
14 Q Mr. Corral, were you arrested on the Indictment in this
15 case?
16 A Yes, I was.
17 Q And when did that occur?
18 A Excuse me, I wasn’t arrested. But when the Indictment
19 came out I surrendered to the authorities in February.
20 Q Of this year?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And did you plead guilty in this case?
23 A Yes.
24 Q What crime did you plead guilty to?
25 A Conspiracy to distribute cocaine.

1 Q Did you plead guilty as part of a written agreement with
2 the Government?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Does that plea agreement require that you provide
5 cooperation?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Are you currently under indictment in any other case?
8 A Yes, I am.
9 Q What are you charged with in that case?
10 A The same, conspiracy to --
11 Q And is that a Federal case?
12 A Yes, it is.
13 Q And where was that Indictment lodged?
14 A Detroit, Michigan.
15 Q Have you pleaded guilty in that case?
16 A No, I haven’t.
17 Q Have you been offered a plea agreement in that case?
19 Q Are you hoping to be offered a plea agreement in that
20 case?
21 A Yes.
22 Q What United States Attorneys’ office are you dealing with
23 in that case?
24 A Detroit, Michigan.
25 Q That’s good enough.

1 A Yeah.
2 Q Mr. Corral, other than your guilty plea in this case, do
3 you have any prior felony convictions of any kind?
4 A No, I don’t.
5 Q Do you have any prior convictions of any kind related to
6 drug trafficking?
7 A No, I don’t.
8 Q Were you involved in drug trafficking prior to the --
9 prior to the crime that you’re charged with on this case?
10 A Yes, I was.
11 Q When did you first become involved with selling drugs?
12 A Nineteen, ninety-nine.
13 Q How old were you about then?
14 A Nineteen, ninety-nine.
15 Q Well, 10 years ago roughly.
16 A Twenty, twenty-five, twenty-six.
17 Q When you first got started selling drugs, what drugs were
18 you selling?
19 A Marijuana.
20 Q Did you, at any time, become involved in selling any other
21 kinds of drugs?
22 A Yes, I did. I started since selling cocaine, right around
23 2002.
24 Q How did you become involved in selling cocaine?
25 A The customers had -- I had some friends that brought it

1 all to the table back in 2002. Ruben Salazar and John Paul
2 Gramatigo (phonetic).
3 Q When you say “they brought it all to the table,” what does
4 that mean?
5 A Well, they brought some customers, customers in.
6 Q And did you have a source of supply of cocaine to be able
7 to deal with them?
8 A Yes, I did. Here in Los Angeles.
9 Q Okay. Who was that?
10 A At that time I had -- it was a gentleman called Chi Chi.
11 Q Now between 2002 and 2006, what quantity of drugs, on
12 average, of cocaine on average, were you selling each month as
13 a result of the cocaine dealing that you just said you got
14 involved in?
15 A Hundreds.
16 Q Hundreds of what?
17 A Of kilos of cocaine.
18 Q And between 2002 and 2006 who were your principal
19 customers for that cocaine?
20 A A man named Terry, a man named Meat, John Paul Gramatigo,
21 Ruben Salazar and Wayne Joyner.
22 Q Do you know where those customers were located?
23 A They were based -- they were out in East Coast area.
24 Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, everywhere.
25 Q Do you know whether any of those customers were buying

1 drugs for distribution in the LA area?
2 A Yes, they were.
3 Q In addition to being the middle man in those cocaine
4 deals, did you have any kind of street distribution
5 organization of your own?
6 A Yes.
7 Q How many people did -- well, did you have any people who
8 you paid to help you with your drug dealing?
9 A Yes, I did, two of them. Two men.
10 Q And were those the guys who were distributing on the
11 street?
12 A Yes.
13 Q How did you communicate with your -- well, the people that
14 work for you and the people that were your customers and your
15 suppliers?
16 A How’d I communicate with them?
17 Q Yes.
18 A Through cell phones.
19 Q Did you have more than one phone?
20 A Yes, I did.
21 Q How many phones did you normally have?
22 A I would carry at least five on me.
23 Q And why --
24 A Five cell phones on me.
25 Q I’m sorry. And why did you have so many phones?

1 A Well, cell phones for different customers. And, you know,
2 different -- different people.
3 Q And why did you have different cell phones for different
4 customers?
5 A To -- well, to avoid, you know, being in detect by the
6 law.
7 Q How did you think the law might detect you?
8 A Well, wire taps. Just trying avoid wire taps.
9 Q Did you subscribe to the cell phones under your own name?
10 A No, I wouldn’t.
11 Q How would you get those though?
12 A I would put them under fake names.
13 Q And did you ever use prepaid cell phones?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q How long did you normally keep your phones?
16 A I would keep them -- I would change up every two to three
17 weeks.
18 Q Now, do you know a person by the name of Ralph Simms?
19 A Absolutely.
20 Q When did you first meet him?
21 A Late 2006.
22 Q And who introduced you to Ralph Simms?
23 A Wayne Joyner.
24 Q Who was Wayne Joyner?
25 A He was a customer.
1 Q Did you know Simms by any name other than Ralph Simms?
2 A Sure, Paco.
3 Q When did you learn that his name actually was Ralph Simms?
4 A After the Indictments came out.
5 Q Did Simms call you by your real name?
6 A No, he wouldn’t.
7 Q What was the name he called you by?
8 A Hugo and Nice.
9 Q Okay. Where did your first meeting with Ralph Simms take
10 place?
11 A Late ’06 at the Marriott Hotel.
12 Q At the Marriott Hotel. Do you recall which Marriott
13 Hotel?
14 A By the LAX.
15 Q And do you recall who was present at the meeting other
16 than Simms?
17 A Sure. Wayne Joyner, Ruben Salazar, and a couple other
18 people from St. Louis.
19 Q What was the purpose of your meeting with Simms?
20 A The purpose was to talk about drugs, kilos of cocaine,
21 yeah.
22 Q Did you and Simms arrange any drug sales after that
23 meeting?
24 A Yes, we did.
25 Q When was that -- when did that happen?

1 A Sometime right after that.
2 Q That would be in what year?
3 A Two thousand and six -- like late, you know, 2006.
4 Q Okay. So right after the meeting?
5 A Right around October area, right around there.
6 Q Well, all right. Turning your attention now to your first
7 transaction with Mr. Simms in late 2006. What did you sell
8 him?
9 A Kilos of cocaine was the first deal.
10 Q Do you recall how many kilos of cocaine were involved in
11 that deal?
12 A I can’t give you a actual amount, but it was between 15 to
13 20 kilos.
14 Q In that particular case, do you recall who supplied you
15 with the cocaine?
16 A Wilbur.
17 Q And now you had mentioned before that you had been getting
18 your cocaine from somebody by the name of Chi Chi?
19 A Yes.
20 Q How did Wilbur get into the picture?
21 A Wilbur became one of my suppliers sometime in 2005, 2004,
22 2005.
23 Q And what happened to Chi Chi?
24 A He -- Chi Chi was still around, but there was a lot of
25 money owed to him.

1 Q I see. And did you have any other suppliers in addition
2 to Wilbur?
3 A Yes, I did.
4 Q Who was that?
5 A Yvonne Vasquez, Wilbur --
6 Q Now, is Yvonne Vasquez the same Yvonne Vasquez to whom you
7 are married?
8 A Yes, it is.
9 Q When did you meet Yvonne Vasquez?
10 A Nineteen, ninety-eight.
11 Q When did you marry Yvonne Vasquez?
12 A Two thousand and five, March, of 2005.
13 Q Between 1998 and 2005 were you involved -- well, was
14 Yvonne Vasquez involved in supplying cocaine or drugs to
15 anybody during that period?
16 A Yes, she was.
17 Q Did you work with her on drug trafficking during that
18 period between 1998 and 2005?
19 A Not until right around like 2000 -- like 2 or 3, I
20 believe. Right around there.
21 Q In 2002 or 3 that was when you developed those customers
22 that you mentioned who wanted cocaine?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Turning now back to your first transaction with Mr. Simms.
25 Did you have to pay your supplier, Wilbur, in advance for the
1 cocaine that you provided Mr. Simms?
2 A Sometimes I would.
3 Q But in that particular case, do you recall?
4 A On the first deal?
5 Q Yes.
6 A I can’t remember.
7 Q When -- did Simms pay you in advance for the cocaine that
8 you supplied to him?
9 A No.
10 Q In that first deal? Did Simms ever pay you for the
11 cocaine from that first deal?
12 A Yes, he did.
13 Q How much later did he pay you?
14 A Maybe about a week -- a week after that, after we gave it
15 to him.
16 Q Did he personally pay you?
17 A Yes, he did.
18 Q Now, do you know what the term “fronting the drugs” means?
19 A Yes. It means you don’t got to put the cash up and a
20 front will take a day, two, three or four days and then you
21 will get your money back.
22 Q Now was it your normal practice to front drugs to somebody
23 in a first deal? As you did to Mr. Simms?
24 A Yes.
25 Q That -- why is that?

1 A Well, because the -- there -- the history was already
2 there.
3 Q What do you mean by that?
4 A With Wayne Joyner, with Mr. Wayne -- the history was
5 already there.
6 Q What history would -- what do you mean exactly?
7 A Well, the history would be distributing hundreds of kilos
8 of cocaine with Wayne Joyner.
9 Q You’re referring to your history with Wayne Joyner?
10 A Yes, my history, yes.
11 Q Now, did Wayne Joyner say anything about Mr. Simms that
12 caused you to front drugs to Mr. Simms?
13 A Well he had mentioned that he’s -- you know, -- this guy’s
14 good. This guy’s good for it.
15 Q Now did Simms tell you what he was going to do with the
16 cocaine that he bought from you?
17 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Hearsay.
18 THE WITNESS: Excuse me?
19 THE COURT: Objection’s overruled.
20 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
21 Q Did Mr. Simms tell you what he was going to do with the
22 cocaine that he bought from you?
23 A Oh, yes. He was going to send it to his people in St.
24 Louis.
25 Q Did he, at that time, tell you who those people were?
1 A Yes.
2 Q And who were they?
3 A Tito, Muscles, another guy named Cuzzo. He had a number
4 of customers out there.
5 Q In St. Louis?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Now, were you supposed to -- were you supposed to take the
8 cocaine to St. Louis yourself? In your arrangement with Mr.
9 Simms?
10 A On the first deal?
11 Q Yes.
12 A No, no.
13 Q Well, how -- what -- did you and Simms make arrangements
14 for the delivery of that cocaine to St Louis?
15 A Yes, we did.
16 Q And what were those arrangements that you made?
17 A Well, the -- an individual by the name of Little D
18 transported that cocaine --
19 Q Now, we’re talking about the --
20 A -- to St. Louis.
21 Q -- first transaction?
22 A Yes. This is the first one.
23 Q And who was Little D?
24 MR. ROGERS: Objection. No foundation.

1 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
2 Q Did you know this person, Little D?
3 A Yes. I had met him through Simms.
4 Q And who is that -- do you know that person’s real name?
5 A No, I don’t. He’s the transporter guy, he ships the
6 drugs. He’s a shipper.
7 Q Now at any point, does that person Little D also go by the
8 name of Tweety?
9 A No.
10 Q Who is Tweety?
11 A Tweety’s another guy that works for Wilbur and Yvonne
12 Vasquez.
13 Q And --
14 A He’s -- yeah.
15 Q -- who -- I’m sorry. To go -- so was this Tweety one of
16 your guys? I mean, not Tweety, Little D. Is that somebody
17 who worked for you?
18 A No, he worked for Simms.
19 Q I see.
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q And Tweety worked for?
22 A Tweety worked for Yvonne Vasquez and Wilber.
23 Q Did Tweety ever also -- well, I’ll come back to that.
24 Now, do you recall the interview you had with Special Agent
25 Smith and Ms. Wang, prosecutor Wang, and Special Agent Wagner
1 in February of this year?
2 A Yes, I do.
3 Q What was that meeting for?
4 A It was a proffer meeting.
5 Q And do you remember telling them a different story about
6 what you sold Simms in your first transaction with Simms?
7 A Yes.
8 Q What did you tell them you sold Simms in that first
9 transaction?
10 A Eight ounces of marijuana.
11 Q Was that the truth?
12 A No. It was a lie.
13 Q And was there a reason why you lied to the agents and the
14 prosecutor in that first meeting about what you sold?
15 A I have never experienced nothing like that. I was
16 concerned and you know, scared.
17 Q Now after your first cocaine transaction with Mr. Simms,
18 did you supply Simms with any more drugs?
19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q Where -- did you continue to supply him with cocaine?
21 A I continued to supply him with kilos of cocaine. Yes, I
22 did.
23 Q Do you recall how many completed transactions you had with
24 Mr. Simms in which you supplied him with cocaine? And by that
25 I mean where you delivered the cocaine and you actually got
1 paid for it?
2 A Right around six -- six deals.
3 Q Did you supply him exclusively with cocaine or did any of
4 those deals involve anything else?
5 A Cocaine.
6 Q Did you supply him the same amount of cocaine each time?
7 A No. It varied.
8 Q And what was the range that it varied from and to?
9 A From 20 to 35, 45 to as high as 80.
10 Q Did --
11 A Kilos of cocaine.
12 Q Thank you. Did -- you mentioned that in your first
13 transaction Simms told you who it was in St. Louis that he was
14 sending this stuff to. Did he tell you during subsequent
15 deals, deals after your first one, that he was continuing to
16 sell or to supply that cocaine to those same people?
17 MR. SWARTH: Objection, hearsay.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
21 Q Now, you mentioned that in that first transaction somebody
22 by the name of Little D took the cocaine. In those other six
23 deals or so that you had with Mr. Simms, who transported the
24 coke? Did you make arrangements, did you discuss with Simms
25 each time how the drugs, how the cocaine was going to get to
1 St. Louis?
2 A Yes, yes.
3 Q And you did not take the cocaine to St. Louis yourself
4 personally. Correct?
6 Q Who took that cocaine to St. Louis in those subsequent --
7 in those transactions after the first one?
10 MR. ROGERS: And foundation. I -- that’s all right.
11 THE COURT: Go ahead.
12 MR. ROGERS: I object as to which deals he’s speaking
13 of.
14 THE COURT: Of vague?
15 MR. ROGERS: Vagueness.
16 THE COURT: Sustained.
17 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
18 Q You said there were six deals. Does that include the
19 first or there were six in addition to the first?
20 A Six on top of the first.
21 Q Okay. Let’s look at the second deal. Do you recall who
22 -- what arrangements were made to take the cocaine to St. Louis
23 in that second deal?
24 A By a man named D-boy transported it.
25 Q And do you know D-boy’s real name?

1 A At the time I didn’t, but now I do. After the Indictment,
2 it’s of Demond Lee.
3 MR. SWARTH: Objection. Move to strike.
4 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection, lacks foundation. Move
5 to strike.
6 THE COURT: The motion would be granted. The jury’s
7 ordered to disregard it. Lacks foundation.
8 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
9 Q Mr. Corral, did you ever have occasion to actually meet
10 this person named D-boy?
11 A Yeah, I had met him once. I met him through Simms.
12 Q And where did you meet him?
13 A Here in Los Angeles at Simms location.
14 Q Do you recall the -- what was going on at the time you met
15 him?
16 MR. SWARTH: Objection. Vague, what was going on?
17 THE COURT: Do you understand the question?
18 THE WITNESS: No, I don’t.
19 THE COURT: Rephrase it.
20 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
21 Q Why did Simms introduce you to D-boy?
22 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Lack of foundation,
23 calls for speculation.
24 MR. SWARTH: Objection. It’s mine.

1 THE WITNESS: Well, he told me D-boy was the
2 transporter. He’s the guy that drives the trucks and he -- at
3 the time he was working for a truck company and he was the guy
4 transporting the drugs back and forth. From LA to St. Louis.
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q In -- do you recall whether anybody other than D-boy
7 transported any of those other loads to St. Louis?
8 A Yes.
9 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Foundation.
11 THE WITNESS: Tweety.
12 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
13 Q And Tweety?
14 A Yeah, a guy named Tweety.
15 Q In each of those subsequent deals, the deals after the
16 first one, did you continue to front the drugs? The cocaine to
17 Mr. Simms?
18 A Yes.
19 Q In those deals did you get paid for that cocaine?
20 A Yes.
21 Q How did you get -- who paid you?
22 A Simms.
23 Q How long would it generally take him to pay you?
24 A The turn around would be from a week to two weeks at the
25 latest.
1 Q Did Simms ever explain to you in connection with those
2 transactions where he was getting the money from?
5 THE WITNESS: It -- cause -- his people in St. Louis.
6 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
7 Q Did he tell you how the money was going to arrive in Los
8 Angeles?
9 A Through D-boy and the big truck. The trailer.
10 Q Were you ever present when D-boy arrived with the money?
11 A On one occasion I do remember.
12 Q How did you know that that occurred?
13 A Cause I personally picked up the money myself.
14 Q Was D-boy present when you picked up the money?
15 A Yes, he was.
16 MR. SWARTH: I’m going to object then to -- and
17 strike that entire line of questioning, your Honor. The
18 initial question was “Were you present when the money arrived?”
19 And that’s --
20 THE COURT: What’s the ground?
21 MR. SWARTH: Relevance, hearsay, foundation.
22 THE COURT: Overruled on each.
23 MR. SWARTH: Thank you.
24 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
25 Q Now you said you have learned the real name of this person
1 that you were introduced to as D-boy. Do you know what that
2 real name is?
3 A Yes, I do.
4 Q What is that name?
5 A Demond Lee.
6 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Calls for hearsay.
7 Move to strike. Lacks foundation.
8 MR. SPEAKER: Join.
9 THE COURT: The objections are overruled. Motion is
10 denied.
11 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
12 Q When did you learn -- how did you learn that real name?
13 A Well, when the Indictments came out.
14 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Same objection, lacks
15 foundation. Move to strike, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Motion denied. Objection’s overruled.
17 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
18 Q Do you see that person, Demond Lee, that D-boy, here in
19 this courtroom today?
20 THE COURT: You can stand up if you wish.
21 THE WITNESS: Yeah. The gentleman standing right
22 over there.
23 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
24 Q Could you describe him a little bit more specifically,
25 they’re --
1 A A brown collared shirt, right over there.
2 THE COURT: Additional.
3 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
4 Q Would you describe the shirt more specifically?
5 A A checkered shirt, the brown shirt straight -- right over
6 there.
7 THE COURT: Indicating the Defendant.
9 THE COURT: Mr. Lee.
10 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
11 Q Now, Mr. Corral, you have said that you have supplied
12 cocaine to Mr. Simms for his customers in St. Louis. Did you
13 ever give Mr. Simms any cash for him to buy cocaine from
14 somebody other than you?
15 A Yes.
16 Q When did that happen?
17 A Late January, sometime in February.
18 Q Of what year?
19 A ’07.
20 Q Do you remember how much cash you gave him?
21 A Ninety-five k.
22 Q And where did you get that cash?
23 A Some cash I had buried.
24 Q You had it buried?
25 A Yeah, I had it buried.

1 Q And why did you give Simms cash to get cocaine from
2 somewhere else?
3 A Cause the money looked awful and other suppliers wouldn’t
4 take it, so Simms tells me he had someone that would.
5 Q What types of -- how did the money look exactly?
6 A It looked awful, it looked like -- you know, faded money.
7 It looked like rats bit it, it just looked terrible.
8 Q What type of bills were these, were this money?
9 A Hundreds and fifties.
10 Q Was the -- how was the -- was the cash wrapped in any way?
11 A Well, it was in a -- it was $5,000 stacks.
12 Q Why didn’t you just use that money to buy cocaine from
13 your own suppliers?
14 A I tried, but they wouldn’t take it.
15 Q Did Simms tell you what he did with the money?
16 A Yeah, he purchased six or seven kilos of cocaine from
17 someone else.
18 Q Did he ever repay you the $95,000?
19 A Yes, he did.
20 Q How much money did he give you?
21 A Right over a 100,000.
22 Q What did that money look like?
23 A Clean money.
24 MR. CROWFOOT: I’m going to publish, your Honor,
25 Exhibits 10, Government Exhibits 10, 11 and 12, which were

1 previously admitted into evidence, so that --
2 THE COURT: Go ahead, please.
3 MR. CROWFOOT: -- Mr. Corral can see them.
4 Thank you.
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q Now, Mr. Corral, this is -- Exhibit 10 is now on display
7 on the screen. Are you able to see that on the screen in front
8 of you or on one of the big ones?
9 A I can see it right in front of me.
10 Q And what is -- what is it you’re looking at? Do you
11 recognize that?
12 A The money I gave Simms.
13 Q This is --
14 MR. CROWFOOT: I’m publishing Exhibit 11.
15 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
16 Q Can you see that on your screen?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Are we looking at the same -- the same money?
19 A I believe so, yes.
20 Q Does -- is that frayed? Is that what you mean by the rats
21 chewed on it?
22 A Yeah, faded money -- just looks like it’s ripped apart.
23 That’s the money I gave him.
24 Q Same? This I’m publishing now, Exhibit 12.
25 A Yes. This is it.

1 Q Mr. Corral, did you ever meet Oscar Dillon?
2 A Yes.
3 Q When did you meet that person?
4 A Late January, sometime in February, I met him in Carson on
5 Turmont (phonetic) Street.
6 Q And -- on Carson at Turmont Street -- I was going to ask
7 you where did you meet him.
8 What is the significance of -- what is -- what is
9 that location on Turmont Street in Carson that you met him at?
10 A It was a home, one of Simms’s homes.
11 Q Had you been to that home before?
12 A Yes, I have.
13 Q Who arranged for your meeting with Mr. Dillon?
14 A Simms.
15 Q Was he present at the meeting?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Do you recall whether anybody else was present?
18 A Simms, Muscles, and there was a woman and another guy that
19 I don’t know of.
20 Q Now you’ve mentioned that Simms and Muscles -- I’m going
21 to come back to this question in a moment.
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q Matter of fact I’m going to come back to the question now.
24 When you were introduced to Mr. Dillon, were you introduced to
25 him as Oscar Dillon or were you introduced to him by some other

1 name?
2 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Leading.
3 THE COURT: That’s -- it’s overruled.
4 THE WITNESS: I was introduced to him to Muscles.
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q Were you given any other name for him?
7 A No, I wasn’t.
8 Q Did you have any subsequent dealings with that person,
9 Muscles?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Were you -- did you ever learn any other names or
12 nicknames for him?
13 A Yes.
14 MR. ROGERS: Objection. No foundation.
16 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
17 Q What were those names?
18 A Chest, Brother, yeah.
19 Q Now, going back to that meeting, your first -- your
20 meeting with -- did you subsequently learn the true name of
21 Muscles or Chest?
22 A Yes, I did.
23 Q And when did you learn that?
24 A When the Indictments came out.
25 MR. ROGERS: I object. This is an improper -- an

1 Indictment is not personal knowledge, your Honor. It’s --
2 THE COURT: What’s the ground?
3 MR. ROGERS: It’s hearsay and there’s no foundation
4 for the identification based on an Indictment.
6 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
7 Q Do you see Mr. Dillon in court here today?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Could you point him out, please?
10 A He’s just sitting right over there. With the blue shirt
11 and tie.
12 Q I actually didn’t hear your answer. What did you say?
13 Which shirt?
14 A He’s sitting over there with the blue -- blue shirt and a
15 tie.
16 Q In the first row or --
17 A Straight back.
18 Q -- the second row?
19 A Second row.
20 THE COURT: Indicating Mr. Dillon.
22 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
23 Q Now, in the -- what was the purpose of your meeting with
24 Mr. Dillon in early 2007?
25 A We discussed kilos of cocaine.

1 Q And just -- you discussed kilos of cocaine for what
2 purpose?
3 A We -- well, for him to have kilos of cocaine in his
4 hometown of St. Louis.
5 Q And who was going to supply those kilos of cocaine?
6 A I was.
7 Q After that first meeting or after that meeting did you
8 ever supply Dillon with cocaine?
9 A Yes, I did.
10 Q When you supplied Dillon with cocaine was Simms involved
11 in that process?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What was his role? Simms’s role?
14 A Simms’s role was to help transport the -- pretty much to
15 have everything arranged.
16 Q Do you recall when the first time was that you supplied
17 Dillon with cocaine? Was it --
18 MR. ROGERS: Object to foundation.
19 THE WITNESS: I want to say March.
20 MR. ROGERS: I object. There’s been no foundation
21 known that this -- he has any first-hand knowledge of that.
22 THE COURT: The objection’s overruled.
23 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
24 Q Excuse me, just repeat your answer, if you would.
25 A March, right around March, I believe.

1 Q Of which year?
2 A ’07.
3 Q And how much cocaine did you supply?
4 A Thirty-five kilos of cocaine.
5 Q Did you deliver that to Dillon?
6 A Not myself, yeah, but it did get to St. Louis.
7 Q Who did you deliver it too?
8 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Lacks foundation. Move
9 to strike.
10 MR. ROGERS: Join.
11 THE COURT: The response “it did get to St. Louis” is
12 struck. The jury’s ordered to disregard it.
13 You can ask your question.
14 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
15 Q Who did you deliver that cocaine too?
16 A To Simms.
17 Q Did Simms tell you or confirm to you who that cocaine was
18 going too?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Do you recall what price you were charging for that
21 cocaine?
22 A Sixteen, five.
23 Q What does that mean?
24 A Sixteen thousand, five hundred. Per kilo.
25 Q Do you recall how big that transaction was for? How many
1 kilos were involved?
2 A Thirty-five.
3 Q Did you get paid for that cocaine?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Was that before or after you delivered the cocaine to
6 Simms?
7 A After.
8 Q In your first -- in your meeting with Dillon, did you get
9 his telephone number?
10 A No, I didn’t.
11 Q So how did you communicate with him?
12 A I didn’t start communicating with him till maybe a couple
13 months after that.
14 Q Well after that first transaction with Mr. Dillon did you
15 supply him with any more cocaine?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q Did you deliver it directly?
18 A Yes.
19 Q To Mr. Dillon?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Well, let me back up on that question.
22 Did you personally transport that cocaine to St.
23 Louis?
24 A Not me personally.
25 Q Who transported that cocaine to St. Louis?

1 A Tweety did.
2 Q Tweety did.
3 A Yeah.
4 Q Now you said you -- how many transactions -- how many
5 times did you supply cocaine to Mr. Dillon?
6 A Right around four times, four to five times.
7 Q At some point you said you got Mr. Dillon’s telephone
8 number?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Who gave you that?
11 THE COURT: Okay. Why don’t we take the morning
12 recess. Please -- let’s make it a 20 minute recess. Please
13 return at 25 to the hour. During your absence do not discuss
14 the case amongst yourself or with any other person.
15 Sir, please wait until the jury exits.
16 (Jurors exit the courtroom)
17 (Court in recess from 10:17 a.m. to 10:38 a.m.)
18 (Jurors entered the courtroom at 10:38 a.m.)
19 THE CLERK: Thank you, everyone. Please be seated.
20 THE COURT: Did you share it with Counsel?
21 THE CLERK: I did not.
22 THE COURT: Okay. Let me have you share it. I have
23 a note from one of the jurors. I’m going to share it with
24 Counsel so Counsel can see it.
25 THE CLERK: Would you just pass it around when --

1 (Attorneys read juror note)
2 THE COURT: You may proceed.
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q Mr. Corral, before the break, you mentioned that after
7 your first transaction with Mr. Dillon, you supplied him with
8 cocaine on several additional occasions and you mentioned how
9 many times that was and how much cocaine you supplied but what
10 I did not ask you and I’ll ask you now is over what period of
11 time after that first day, how long did you -- how long did
12 that supply relationship continue?
13 A Well, from -- say, right around six months, six, seven
14 months between February and, like, July.
15 Q Of ’07?
16 A Of ’07, correct.
17 Q And in each case, you did agree with Mr. Simms on the
18 transportation arrangements for that cocaine to get to
19 St. Louis, correct?
20 A Correct.
21 Q And forgive me if I’ve ask you this already but there were
22 a number of objections and I don’t remember. Was the cocaine
23 that you subsequently delivered to Mr. Dillon or to Simms for
24 delivery to Dillon -- was it transported to St. Louis in each
25 case by the same person, to your knowledge?

1 MR. SWARTH: Objection, calls for speculation.
3 THE WITNESS: There was two people that transported
4 it.
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q And who were those two people?
7 A D-Boy and Tweety.
8 Q Considering that you mentioned that you had done four to
9 five additional deliveries for Mr. Dillon, do you know how many
10 of those were delivered by Tweety and how many were delivered
11 by Demond Lee?
12 MR. SWARTH: Objection, compound.
13 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
14 Q Well, do you remember how many of those were delivered by
15 Demond Lee?
16 A At least three.
17 Q Were you paid for each one of those transactions?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did Simms tell you in each case the arrangements for
20 bringing the money back to Los Angeles?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Did the same person -- who brought the money back to
23 Los Angeles in each of those cases?
24 A D-Boy did.
25 MR. SWARTH: Objection, no foundation.

2 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
3 Q Now, you mentioned that at some point, you did actually
4 get Mr. Dillon’s telephone number, correct?
5 A Correct.
6 Q How did you get that telephone number?
7 A Through Simms.
8 Q Did you ever then after that have occasion to speak with
9 Mr. Dillon on the telephone?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And what did you talk -- how many times did you speak with
12 Defendant Dillon over the telephone?
13 A I would say roughly --
14 MR. ROGERS: Objection, speculation.
16 THE WITNESS: Roughly between five or ten times.
17 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
18 Q Did you engage in any -- what was the subject matter of
19 those telephone conversations that you had with Mr. Dillon?
20 A To discuss the business.
21 Q The business being what?
22 A Cocaine.
23 Q So when you say you were discussing the business, were you
24 discussing -- do you mean that you were discussing those
25 transactions, those supplies, those five supplies that -- or

1 whatever number it was after you got his telephone number with
2 Mr. Dillon?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Now, I’m going to turn your attention to a specific event
5 in March of 2007. Do you recall meeting with Ralph Simms on
6 March 27, 2007?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Do you recall where you met him?
9 A Chili’s.
10 Q And what is Chili’s?
11 A Chili’s Restaurant.
12 Q And where is that restaurant located?
13 A Carson.
14 Q What was the purpose of that meeting?
15 A To discuss kilograms of cocaine.
16 Q Do you recall who was present at that meeting?
17 A Simms, Tito, some guy named Big Rob and some girls were
18 there, too, but I can’t remember.
19 Q Any other males there?
20 A There was some other guy from St. Louis there. I can’t --
21 D-Sod or D-Hod, something like that.
22 Q When you said that the meeting was to discuss kilos of
23 cocaine, can you be more specific? Do you recall whether there
24 was a particular transaction you were discussing that day?
25 A Yes. Yeah, I do remember D-Boy was there also. We were

1 talking about kilos of cocaine.
2 Q And were you making -- was the purpose of the meeting to
3 make arrangements or was it a general discussion?
4 A It was for arrangements for D-Boy to pull out of L.A.
5 within a couple days with kilos of cocaine.
6 Q And who were those kilos of cocaine going to?
7 A Muscles.
8 Q Meaning Defendant Dillon?
9 A Yes.
10 Q After the meeting at Chili’s, did you meet again that same
11 day with Simms?
12 A Yes, we did.
13 Q Where did you meet?
14 A At his house right around the corner.
15 Q Right around the corner from what?
16 A From Chili’s, I’m sorry.
17 Q Who was present at his house?
18 A D-Boy, Tito, Simms and Rob -- a guy named Rob.
19 Q Was there any cocaine at Simms’ house?
20 A Yes, there was.
21 Q How much cocaine was there?
22 A Thirty-five kilos of cocaine.
23 Q Do you know how the cocaine got there?
24 A I delivered it to -- I delivered it there to the house on
25 Turmont (phonetic).
1 Q That’s the house where you were meeting that day?
2 A Yes, yes.
3 Q Did you deliver it that day?
4 A No.
5 Q When did you deliver it?
6 A A week before that.
7 Q Was anything done with the cocaine that day on March 27th
8 when you went there after the Chili’s Restaurant?
9 MR. ROGERS: Objection, foundation.
11 THE WITNESS: Yes. We wrapped them.
12 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
13 Q When you say, “We wrapped them” --
14 A Yeah. We had to rewrap the cocaine.
15 Q Who is “we”?
16 A Me, D-Boy, Tito and Simms.
17 THE COURT: Clarify who he means by D-Boy.
18 MR. CROWFOOT: Yes. I apologize, your Honor.
19 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
20 Q D-Boy was who?
21 A Demond Lee.
22 Q You said that you were wrapping the cocaine?
23 A Yes.
24 Q So what condition was the cocaine in before you were
25 wrapping it?
1 A It smelled awful. So we had to rewrap it. We had to
2 rewrap so that when he left, you know, it just wouldn’t smell
3 so bad.
4 Q When who left?
5 A D-Boy, back to St. Louis.
6 Q And when you say, “D-Boy,” if we’re talking about Demond
7 Lee --
8 A Yes, we are.
9 Q -- would you just say “Lee”?
10 A Oh, okay.
11 Q Okay. Did -- do you know what happened to that cocaine?
12 Did anybody tell you?
13 A What happened to it? It got delivered to St. Louis.
14 Q Who told you that?
15 A Simms.
16 Q Did you see that cocaine leave the house that day?
18 Q In -- turning now your attention to June or July of 2007,
19 did anyone ever speak to you about installing a secret
20 compartment in a truck?
21 A Simms did.
22 Q What did Simms tell you about this truck?
23 A Well, he told me --
24 MR. SWARTH: Objection, hearsay.

1 THE WITNESS: Well, he mentioned to me that there was
2 a stash of kilos of cocaine and that was going to get done to
3 the truck and that was going to fit a hundred kilos of cocaine
4 and -- yeah.
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q Did he -- did Simms tell you how much that construction
7 was going to cost?
8 A Ten thousand.
9 Q Did he ask you to pay for it?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you pay for the whole amount?
14 A I don’t remember if I paid for the whole amount but I did
15 give him some money.
16 Q Were you expecting to get paid back for that?
17 A No.
18 Q Why did you put up the money?
19 A Just to -- I put it up so the stash can get done and for
20 security reasons.
21 Q When you say, “for security” --
22 A Yeah.
23 Q -- how would this stash benefit you?
24 A Well, for the -- you know, for the kilos to be well
25 stashed in the truck.

1 Q Did you -- did Simms tell you what truck this stash was
2 going to be installed in?
3 MR. SWARTH: Objection, calls for hearsay.
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, he did.
6 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
7 Q Whose truck -- or what truck did he say?
8 A Demond Lee’s truck.
9 Q Did you ever actually see the stash?
11 Q Did you ever actually see the truck?
13 Q Do you know if the truck with the secret compartment was
14 ever actually used to ship cocaine to St. Louis, the cocaine
15 that you supplied to Dillon or to other people in St. Louis?
16 A That actual truck, no.
17 Q And do you know why not?
18 A No, I don’t.
19 Q Turning your attention to July of 2007, did you agree to
20 supply anyone with a hundred kilos of cocaine?
21 A Yes, I did.
22 Q Who did you agree to supply a hundred kilos of cocaine to?
23 A Muscles in St. Louis.
24 Q With whom did you discuss the arrangements for that supply
25 of cocaine?
1 A With Simms and Yvonne Vasquez.
2 Q Did you ever speak with Defendant Dillon directly about
3 that hundred-kilo deal?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did you do that in person or by telephone?
6 A Oh, telephone.
7 THE COURT: And when you refer to the participants,
8 please identify them by their last name, if you know it, and
9 not by their monikers or AKAs, please.
10 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sure.
12 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
13 Q When you say you discussed it with Yvonne Vasquez, what
14 was her role in that transaction?
15 A To transport it to St. Louis through Tweety.
16 Q Now, at -- had you at any point before that transaction
17 ever supplied as big an amount as a hundred kilos to anybody in
18 St. Louis?
19 A No.
20 Q In this case you said Tweety was supposed to take the
21 load?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Do you know why the load was not sent with -- Tweety was
24 somebody you say worked for Ms. Vasquez?
25 A Yes.
1 Q Do you know why the load was not sent with Defendant Lee?
2 A Because at the time, his truck was being installed. That
3 was one of the reasons, yeah.
4 Q Did the hundred kilos get delivered to St. Louis, to your
5 knowledge?
6 A They were supposed to but it turned out to be a --
7 Q Well, what -- let me just -- I’ll -- so the answer is
8 “No”?
9 A Uh-huh, correct.
10 Q Why were the hundred kilos not delivered in St. Louis?
11 A They weren’t delivered because it was phony. It was a
12 phony run by Yvonne Vasquez.
13 Q When you say that, what do you mean by “It was a phony run
14 by Yvonne Vasquez”?
15 A Well, she had made it look like she was delivering the
16 cocaine to St. Louis, a hundred kilos of cocaine with her
17 transporter Tweety and she -- it turned out to be a big lie.
18 Q Well, let me ask you this. At the time, did you know all
19 of this that you’re telling us today?
20 A At the time --
21 Q Did you know that it was a big lie?
22 A No.
23 Q Were you expecting a hundred kilos to be delivered?
24 A Yes, I was.
25 Q And when those hundred kilos were not delivered, what were
1 you told -- well, who told you that they were not delivered?
2 A Yvonne Vasquez told me.
3 Q Did she give you a reason?
4 A She had made up this story.
5 Q Well, what was the reason she gave you?
6 A The story was that three black men jumped out at the truck
7 stop over there in St. Louis and robbed Tweety and that’s --
8 Q Did you believe that story at the time?
9 A No, I didn’t.
10 Q Did you talk to any -- to Simms or to Dillon or to anybody
11 of those people that you were supplying this cocaine to about
12 this lost load?
13 A Yes, I did.
14 Q Who did you talk to?
15 A I talked to Simms and Oscar.
16 Q What did you tell Simms or what did he tell you about the
17 lost load?
18 A Well, we were trying to figure out what had happened. We
19 were on the phone -- we were talking on the phone a few times.
20 I talked to Dillon a few times. We were discussing back and
21 forth what had happened. So did you tell them that you didn’t
22 believe the story? What did you tell them about --
23 A Well, I told them someone was playing games but at the
24 time I just wasn’t sure who it was.
25 Q Did you at some point reach some kind of conclusion in

1 your own mind as to who had stolen the cocaine or what had
2 happened to that cocaine?
3 A Yes.
4 Q When did that happen -- when did you reach that
5 conclusion?
6 A Like, sometime in, like, August or September.
7 Q And did -- at any point between July and August or
8 September, did Simms give you any cash up front for a supply of
9 cocaine?
10 A Yes, he did.
11 Q When did that occur?
12 A Right after 7-7-7.
13 Q What is the significance of 7-7-7?
14 A That’s the day where this whole robbery thing was planned
15 by Yvonne and the kilos were supposed to be going to St. Louis.
16 Q Now, 7-7-7, in your mind, stands for what -- what is --
17 A July 7th of -- July of -- July 7th of ’07. The seventh
18 month, yeah.
19 Q Is that the day you became aware of the fact that this
20 load went missing?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Now -- so sometime after that date, Simms gave you some
23 cash for a supply of cocaine. That’s what you said?
24 A Yes, he did.
25 Q Do you recall how much cash he gave you?

1 A Sixty thousand.
2 Q Did he tell you where he got that cash?
3 A Yeah. He had said half of it was Demond Lee’s and the
4 other half was his.
5 Q And what were you supposed to do with that cash?
6 A Get cocaine for them.
7 Q How much -- do you recall how much cocaine you were
8 supposed to get for that cash?
9 A Right around 5 kilos.
10 Q Did Simms tell you what he was going to do with that
11 cocaine?
12 A Yeah, transport -- take it to St. Louis.
13 Q Did he say anybody in particular was going to get it?
14 A Yeah, well, he was going to give it to Mr. Lee and take it
15 to St. Louis.
16 Q Did you actually supply the cocaine that they gave you
17 money for?
19 Q Why not?
20 A I had stayed with the money.
21 Q When you say, “I had stayed with the money” --
22 A Yeah, I stayed with the money because at the time I had
23 five -- when that had happened, I thought, you know, that they
24 were, kind of, in on the robbery and, you know, I wasn’t sure
25 if they were in or not on 7-7-7, the robbery that took place in

1 St. Louis. So I decided to just tell them, you know, that --
2 well, I decided to really just take that money from them.
3 Q How much was that hundred-kilo load of cocaine worth to
4 purchase from your suppliers?
5 A One point five million.
6 MR. CROWFOOT: Your Honor, I’m going to publish
7 Exhibit 239.
8 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
9 Q Mr. Corral, up there on the -- where you’re sitting, there
10 is a binder of transcripts. If you would -- it’s a black
11 binder. Perhaps Mr. Cruz might be able to show you which one
12 it is because there’s several binders up there.
13 A Yeah, there’s three over here.
14 THE COURT: On the note that I have from one of the
15 jurors is the -- first is, can you provide a picture of Daniel
16 Corral. Just so we have clarification, Mr. Corral is in the
17 witness chair and if the Government has a picture, then we can
18 provide that later.
19 MR. CROWFOOT: A picture of Mr. Corral, your Honor?
20 THE COURT: There’s a request for a picture of
21 Mr. Corral. Okay. So the Government may have that picture but
22 I just want to make sure everyone understands Mr. Corral is the
23 person testifying in the witness chair. And the other question
24 is, what does “pretext” mean. “Pretext” means the stated
25 reason is different than the actual reason. Go ahead.

2 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
3 Q Mr. Corral, do you have Exhibit 239-A in front of you?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Would you look at the very first page of that exhibit
6 before it has all the lines with the talking on it? Are you
7 looking at that?
8 A Um.
9 Q The very, very first page. It looks like -- the one that
10 looks like that?
11 A Yes, yes.
12 Q Okay. Could you just tell us by looking at that page what
13 is the date of this particular telephone call?
14 A 8/6/07.
15 Q And who is involved in this call?
16 A Me and Simms.
17 Q Now, you have listened to that call before, have you not?
18 A Yes, I have.
19 Q And you’ve read the transcript before this morning?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. And you’re aware of the fact that the transcript
22 that you have in front of you, and the jury has, has been
23 redacted for legal reasons, things have been blacked out for
24 legal reasons?
25 A Sure.
1 Q Okay.
2 MR. CROWFOOT: I’m now publishing Exhibit 239.
3 (Government’s Exhibit Number 239 audio was played from
4 11:01 a.m. to 11:17 a.m.)
5 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
6 Q Mr. Corral, in this call -- I’m now looking at the page
7 that says -- it’s got a little “Page 2” at the bottom of it
8 just so that we can keep track of the questions. You tell
9 Simms, “I’ve been suffering, man.” What did you mean by that?
10 A I meant that I’ve been very confused ‘cause of what had
11 happened and --
12 Q I’m sorry. Go ahead.
13 A No, and I just wasn’t able to figure out what had
14 happened.
15 Q And what was it that had happened that you were referring
16 to?
17 A Well, the delivery of the cocaine was all phony.
18 Q The lost load of cocaine.
19 A Yeah, the lost load of the cocaine, yeah.
20 Q When you told him that the cats -- “These cats are on me,”
21 what did you mean by that?
22 A The suppliers were pressuring me.
23 Q Were the suppliers, in fact, pressuring you?
24 A Yes, they were.
25 Q Who was pressuring you?

1 A The suppliers, Yvonne’s suppliers.
2 Q At the time -- on Page 3, if you look down, sort of, half
3 way down the page, you say, “But you didn’t do that, Brother?”
4 And it’s a question. You asked him as a question. You’re
5 talking to Simms. Did you at the time believe that Simms might
6 have been involved in that lost load?
7 A Yes.
8 Q On Page 4, Simms -- in the conversation, Simms says to
9 you, “Muscles, swear to god, he didn’t, man.” What did you
10 understand him to be telling you there?
11 A That Muscles wouldn’t have done that.
12 Q That -- and who did you think he was referring to when he
13 said, “Muscles didn’t do that”?
14 A Oscar Dillon.
15 Q Just a little bit -- a few moments later in that same
16 conversation on the transcript on the same page, you go -- he
17 says, “Then on top of that, you know, they done started that
18 other shit back.” What was -- what did you understand him to
19 be referring to at that point?
20 A Some other indictments that came out.
21 Q Do you know where that had happened?
22 A I believe Atlanta.
23 Q I’ll refer you to the transcript on Page 6, the little 6
24 on the bottom. It says -- Simms at that point in the
25 conversation says to you, “Dude, swear to god, he ain’t either.

1 He down there talking about how bad he’s suffering ‘cause you
2 know, he was looking -- looking forward to that.” It appears
3 that you knew what he was talking about. What did you -- who
4 did you understand him to be referring to in that?
5 A Oscar Dillon.
6 Q Now, on Page 7 of the transcript -- well, let me ask you
7 this. Did you -- were you ever introduced to or meet anybody
8 by the name of -- that you knew by the name of Scooter?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Who was that person?
11 A Scooter is D-Boy.
12 Q And D-Boy is?
13 A Demond Lee.
14 Q Now, in that section of the conversation -- if you look on
15 Page 7, it’s the first one where Simms is speaking to you. He
16 said, “You know, he been out here for a week and shit, too. He
17 be calling me everyday wanting to know if I talked to
18 you and I’m, like, I just be telling him no ‘cause I
19 already know you don’t want to talk to no mother-
20 fucker.” Did you understand what he meant by -- when
21 he was telling you that that person named Scooter or Demond Lee
22 was looking to talk to you?
23 MR. SWARTH: Objection, speculation.
25 THE WITNESS: Uh, yes.

1 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
2 Q What did you understand him to be telling you?
3 A Oh, he wanted to come talk to me about cocaine, kilos of
4 cocaine.
5 Q Any particular kilos of cocaine that he wanted to talk to
6 you about?
7 A The ones he -- that were for him.
8 Q Are those -- are you referring to the ones for which you
9 had received money but had not delivered?
10 A Yes, the 30,000 that he had put up.
11 Q So by the time this conversation took place, you had
12 already gotten that money that you kept?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Looking at Page 9 of the transcript, you’re going back and
15 forth about, you know, my dead son, et cetera. And you say to
16 Simms, “Dude came back beat up, man.” And then you say, “They
17 just touched him up a little bit.” Who were you talking about
18 and what did you mean?
19 A I was talking Tweety, the guy that supposedly had
20 transported it.
21 Q So you saw Tweety after he came back from St. Louis?
22 A Yes, I did. Yes.
23 Q And did he appear injured to you in some way?
24 A I did see him. He had a black eye.
25 Q Further on, on that same page and just a little bit later
1 in the conversation, you tell Simms, “I gave him everything I
2 had. I owe him, like, one two right now -- a point, 1.2.”
3 What are you referring to there?
4 A That I had given him money but that was just smoke I was
5 blowing.
6 Q Well, let’s break it down. You had given who money?
7 A The suppliers --
8 Q And --
9 A -- just to calm him down.
10 Q -- you’re -- so had you given the suppliers any money at
11 that point?
12 A No.
13 Q But you were telling Simms that you had given them some
14 amount of money, 1.2?
15 A Yes.
16 Q What was the 1.2 a reference to? What did you mean by
17 1.2?
18 A Oh, for the kilos of cocaine.
19 Q And the number 1.2, how much money were you referring to?
20 A $1.2 million.
21 Q And just -- and the very next you said, you said, “You
22 know, the door is shut. The door is shut. I need to come in
23 with at least seven or six so I can get that opportunity.”
24 What did you -- what were you telling him there? What did you
25 mean?
1 A I was trying to get some type of money from him so that I
2 can give it towards the suppliers ‘cause they were pressing me.
3 Q When you say, “The door is shut,” what door were you
4 referring to?
5 A The cocaine business, the cocaine.
6 Q Were you referring to the availability of supply?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And what did you mean?
9 A That it was closed. We can’t grab any kilos of cocaine
10 right now ‘cause of the situation.
11 Q And when you said, “I need to give him six or seven,” what
12 were you actually referring to?
13 A Six hundred thousand, seven hundred thousand.
14 Q Now, just shortly after that in the conversation, Simms
15 tells you, “The dude, he finally got that with what’s-ya-name”
16 and you say, “What,” basically “Who that” and then he says,
17 “You know, putting the speakers in the truck.” Did you
18 understand what he meant at that point by “putting the speakers
19 in the truck”?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What did he mean?
22 A The truck that was getting the stash done.
23 Q And when he said, “You finally got done with that
24 yesterday, all that shit for nothing,” what did you understand
25 that to mean?
1 A That he had finished up installing of the stash in the
2 truck.
3 Q And what did he mean by “all that shit for nothing”?
4 A I don’t know.
5 Q You asked him, “Where’s Scooter at?” Who were you
6 referring to in that reference?
7 A Demond Lee.
8 Q Then Simms replies to you, “He in the house, sick as hell
9 worried about, you know, what his man going to do, sick as
10 hell. He don’t know what’s, man.” Did you understand what
11 Simms meant when he said that to you?
12 A No.
13 Q A good deal later in the conversation on Page 15 of the
14 transcript -- the part that’s on Page 15 of the transcript, you
15 tell Simms, “Man, tell Muscles to help me out.”
16 A Correct.
17 Q What did you mean when you said that?
18 A To give me some cash.
19 Q Who should give you some cash?
20 A For Muscles to give me some cash.
21 Q “Muscles” meaning whom?
22 A Oscar -- I’m sorry.
23 Q Oscar who?
24 A Oscar Dillon. So he can -- so I can give it to my
25 suppliers.
1 Q Why should Oscar Dillon have given you any cash?
2 A ‘Cause he’s the money man.
3 Q He’s the money man in what context?
4 A He’s the money man in St. Louis.
5 MR. ROGERS: Objection, move to strike. There’s been
6 no foundation established so the witness can make that
7 statement.
8 THE COURT: The motion is denied.
9 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
10 Q Later on in that -- well, right after that, Simms says --
11 you have a discussion about -- he tells you about calling him
12 on a phone. Did you ever actually -- after this conversation
13 actually talk to Oscar Dillon about this situation?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did Dillon ever agree to give you any money to resolve
16 this issue?
17 A No.
18 Q Do you know a person by the name of Roy Burris?
19 A Yes, I do.
20 Q Who is he? How do you know him?
21 A I know him through Simms.
22 Q Do you see him here in this courtroom?
23 A Yes. He’s sitting right over here in the front, white
24 shirt on.
25 THE COURT: Indicating Mr. Burris.

2 BY MR. CROWFOOT:
3 Q How did you meet Defendant Burris?
4 A I met him through Simms.
5 Q How often did you see Defendant Burris?
6 A A total of five, six, seven times maybe.
7 Q Do you recall ever talking to Burris either in person or
8 on the telephone about any specific cocaine transaction?
9 A I think we had -- we talked about the whole 7-7-7 thing
10 once.
11 Q And when you say you talked about the whole 7-7-7 thing
12 once --
13 A Yes.
14 Q -- why don’t you spell that out a little bit more in plain
15 English? What did you talk about with him about the 7-7-7
16 thing?
17 A I just remember him saying that the problem will get
18 fixed. Don’t worry about it.
19 Q Do you remember when you had that conversation?
20 A August, September maybe. I’m not sure.
21 Q Of what year?
22 A ’07.
23 Q Do you recall having a meeting in person with both Simms
24 and Burris in August of 2007?
25 A Yes, I do.
1 Q Where was that meeting?
2 A Century City at McDonald’s on --
3 Q Do you recall when in August -- I’m sorry. I shouldn’t
4 have -- Century City -- could you repeat your answer?
5 A Century City at McDonald’s on Pico Boulevard.
6 Q And I asked you whether it was in August. Was it, in
7 fact, in August?
8 A It could have been July. I’m not sure.
9 Q Had anything else occurred right around that time that you
10 recall caused this meeting to happen?
11 A The Atlanta indictments came out. Mr. Simms was -- he was
12 concerned.
13 Q And so did he invite you to come to this meeting?
14 A Simms did, yeah.
15 Q And who was present at the meeting?
16 A R.B. was.
17 Q Who is R.B.?
18 A Roy Burris, yes.
19 Q And I should have asked you.
20 A Yeah.
21 Q Well -- Roy Burris. You knew him as R.B.?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And what did Simms talk to you about that -- about at that
24 meeting?
25 A Well, he had just told me if anything happens to him

1 because he was concerned about the indictment that came out in
2 Atlanta -- if anything happens to him, talk to R.B. He knows
3 the whole business.
4 Q Now, did you contact Simms after July -- after the 7-7
5 lost load -- after July 2007 to put together any cocaine
6 transactions other than the 30,000 -- or the one where you kept
7 the money?
8 A Uh --
9 Q Any -- did you -- after that transaction where you kept
10 the money, did you engage in any other discussions about any
11 transactions?
12 A Yes, we did in -- towards the end, like, October time.
13 Q And what was that discussion about?
14 A It was a 30-kilo discussion that we wanted to put together
15 and it was going to St. Louis.
16 Q Now, what had changed to -- you had told him before that
17 the door was shut. What had changed between your conversation
18 in early August and this conversation in October? What caused
19 the door to open?
20 A Well, at that point I had already started putting things
21 together and I realized that it wasn’t the people from
22 St. Louis that stole that.
23 Q When you said, “I had started putting things together,” --
24 A Yeah.
25 Q -- what do you mean in plain English?

1 A Well, Yvonne Vasquez had -- she started telling me what
2 had happened and she told me that it wasn’t the people in
3 St. Louis, that she, kind of, planned it and stuff like that.
4 She started telling me.
5 Q And did you speak with anybody other than Simms in October
6 about putting together another cocaine transaction?
7 A Oscar Dillon.
8 Q Did you speak to him in person?
9 A On the phone.
10 Q Did you discuss a transaction in any kind of detail?
11 A We would just talk about 30 cents here and there, the “30
12 cents” meaning kilos of cocaine.
13 Q And so that would have been how many kilos of cocaine?
14 A Thirty -- 30 kilos, yeah.
15 Q Did you discuss a price with him for those kilos?
16 A No.
17 Q Why not?
18 A ‘Cause I’m sure he knew the price.
19 Q How would he know the price?
20 A He’s a good customer from St. Louis.
21 Q Did that further transaction with Simms or Dillon ever
22 occur?
23 A No.
24 Q Why not?
25 A ‘Cause the indictments came out.

Corral - Cross by Mr. Rogers 111
1 Q The indictments in which case?
2 A In this case.
3 MR. CROWFOOT: No further questions, your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Mr. Rogers?
6 THE COURT: And, recall, we will end at noon today.
8 CROSS EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. ROGERS:
10 Q Mr. Corral, my name is John Rogers. I’m an attorney and I
11 represent a gentleman named Oscar Dillon. I’m curious, sir.
12 Would you tell me the number of times you rehearsed your direct
13 testimony with a prosecutor from the United States Attorney’s
14 Office?
15 MR. CROWFOOT: Objection, argumentative.
16 THE COURT: It’s sustained and let me just instruct
17 the jury. Any insinuations suggested by Counsel in this
18 question is not evidence.
19 BY MR. ROGERS:
20 Q Sir --
21 THE COURT: This is the second time Counsel’s
22 admonished.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Rogers, you’re on notice.
25 MR. ROGERS: Yes, sir.

1 BY MR. ROGERS:
2 Q Can you --
3 A Hold on. Can I close this? Can I close this up? Yes?
4 THE COURT: Yeah, please.
5 BY MR. ROGERS:
6 Q Mr. Corral, how many times did you go over your testimony
7 with a Government Prosecutor or agent? This testimony that you
8 testified here today, how many times did you go over it?
9 A How many times did I go over it?
10 Q Where they asked you questions and you gave them answers
11 like you did earlier today.
12 A Three times.
13 Q Within the last week, sir? Within the last week?
14 A Uh, yes.
15 Q And, sir --
16 A The last two weeks.
17 Q Within the last two weeks?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And was that with Mr. Crowfoot?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And, sir, your vocabulary -- you stated a couple things in
22 your direct examination. I’ve got a couple questions. When
23 you say in direct that you stayed with the money, what you
24 really mean is you stole the money, correct?
25 A Yes.
1 Q And, sir, when you say -- when you stated on direct that
2 you were blowing smoke, what you meant was you were lying,
3 right?
4 A Correct. That’s correct.
5 Q All right. And, sir, people that lie are called liars,
6 aren’t they?
8 Q And you were lying yourself on that phone call, correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q When you say you were blowing smoke, what you meant to say
11 is, “I was lying,” right?
12 A Yes.
13 Q All right. And, sir, the way that you spoke on this phone
14 call, that was you on Government’s Exhibit -- well, that was
15 you on the phone call, right, Government’s 239?
16 A Yes, it was. Yes, it was.
17 Q And, sir, you speak in a vocabulary that is -- I would
18 describe as a street vocabulary. Is that -- would you agree?
19 A Sure.
20 Q All right. And so as you speak to these ladies and
21 gentlemen of the jury during your direct testimony, you were
22 speaking in a more proper way. Would you agree?
23 A Correct.
24 Q All right. And were you given any instruction by anyone
25 that your vocabulary in court should be professional or in any

1 certain way?
2 A Not at all. No one instructed me.
3 Q Okay. And, sir, the way that drug dealers speak on the
4 streets, I mean, it is consistent with Government’s Exhibit
5 that you heard, 239. You speak in slang, right?
6 A Correct.
7 MR. CROWFOOT: Objection, foundation.
9 BY MR. ROGERS:
10 Q Well, sir, you’re certainly a drug dealer. Would you
11 acknowledge that?
12 A Absolutely.
13 Q All right. And the way you communicated with other
14 individuals that were involved in dealing drugs, you spoke to
15 them in a way consistent with the way you spoke on Call 239,
16 right?
17 A Two thirty-nine, what is that?
18 Q I’m sorry.
19 A What is 239?
20 Q On that telephone recording that you heard.
21 A Oh, yes.
22 Q All right. When involved in the drug game, it’s
23 commonplace to lie to other people that you’re dealing with,
24 isn’t it?
25 A Oh, yeah.
1 Q The better -- when it serves your purpose -- strike that.
2 When it serves your purpose to lie to other drug dealers,
3 that’s done commonly, isn’t it?
4 A In that business, there’s a lot of smoke going around.
5 Q And another word for “smoke” is there’s a lot of
6 deception. Fair enough?
7 A I don’t know what that means. What does “deception” mean?
8 Q Lie. There’s a lot of lying going on.
9 A Smoke, yes.
10 Q Well, sir, do you understand that blowing smoke and lying
11 is the same thing?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. And so when you were dealing, one of the people
14 that you testified you dealt with was Mr. Ralph Simms, right?
15 A Correct.
16 Q And in the phone call that we just listened to, the two of
17 you are loving you, man, and loving each other. You guys are
18 talking about this back and forth, weren’t you?
19 A Sure.
20 Q Okay. And so it’d be fair to say you had a business
21 relationship with him, right?
22 A Yes.
23 Q But the affection that you shared with him was one of
24 friendship as well, right?
25 A Yes.
1 Q Okay. And, sir, I am not asking you to guess during this
2 portion of the questioning. If -- would you agree with me,
3 sir, that if you don’t know the answer to one of my questions
4 that you will tell me you don’t know?
5 A Yes.
6 Q All right. And you said that an individual named
7 Ms. Vasquez was involved in deceiving you regarding this lost
8 100-kilo load that was intended for St. Louis; is that correct,
9 sir?
10 A Correct.
11 Q That woman is legally married to you at this moment, isn’t
12 she?
13 A Correct.
14 Q All right. So when we speak of Ms. Vasquez, we’re
15 speaking of your wife?
16 A Yes.
17 Q The person you share the same bed with, right?
18 A At times.
19 Q During 2007 -- 7-7-7 as you referred to it, sir, were you
20 living in the same household as Ms. Vasquez at that time?
21 A Yes. We were staying in an apartment.
22 Q Okay. And, sir, did you have children together?
23 A No.
24 Q All right. When you had this conversation with Mr. Simms,
25 the one that was played -- Exhibit 239, that took place on
1 August 6th, 2007; is that correct, sir?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And so between 7/7/07 and August 6th, ’07, approximately a
4 month in time had gone by, right?
5 A Sounds right.
6 Q And during this conversation, you’re trying to figure out
7 whether Mr. Simms was involved in taking the cocaine, more or
8 less, correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q So during that time period, you were living with someone
11 who you now know was deceiving for that period of time,
12 correct?
13 A I was not living with her past 7 -- she left right after
14 7-7-7 --
15 Q Okay.
16 A -- ‘cause she know -- she knew what she had done.
17 Q Did you have any contact with her between 7/7/7 and 8/6/7,
18 the date of this phone call?
20 Q But it would be fair to say that you hadn’t figured out
21 for sure that Ms. Vasquez had anything to do with the nondrug
22 transaction, the non-delivery of the cocaine on 7/7/7 because
23 you were questioning Mr. Simms about it on 8/6/07, correct?
24 A Correct. I was confused.
25 Q You didn’t know what to believe, right?

1 A Correct.
2 Q And during this conversation, you lied to Mr. Simms when
3 you told him that you gave him everything I had, 1.2. That was
4 a lie, right?
5 A Yes.
6 Q You didn’t give anybody any money, did you?
7 A Right.
8 Q Sir, you had an opportunity -- you’ve been coming to court
9 in this matter with other people charged in this alleged
10 conspiracy for a good part of the year 2008, correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q And so you’ve seen me in court before, sir? Do you
13 recall?
14 A Yes, I have.
15 Q And you’ve seen other gentlemen seated at this table in
16 court prior --
17 A Yes, I --
18 Q -- to your testimony today, sir, correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q All right. And you’ve had an opportunity to review your
21 discovery with your attorney, correct?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And your attorney’s name, sir?
24 A Gregory Nicolaysen.
25 Q Okay. And you’ve worked with Mr. Nicolaysen and you’ve

1 gone over many of these phone calls, correct, sir?
2 A Yes.
3 Q You’ve listened to them?
4 A Yes.
5 Q All right. With other members of his firm as well,
6 correct?
7 A Just him.
8 Q Okay. And, sir, you’ve had an opportunity to review some
9 of the reports and some of the calls, too, on transcripts,
10 correct?
11 A Yes.
12 Q All right. Sir, you stated that you had a number of
13 telephones; is that correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q As a matter of fact, you are aware that the Government
16 intercepted two phones in particular that they believed you
17 were using, correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Telephone Number 818-862-8149, do you remember that
20 number, sir?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Sir, do you also remember using and utilizing 818-862-
23 4796? Does that sound familiar?
24 A Possibility.
25 Q Okay. The point is you took great care in changing phones

1 every couple of weeks according to your testimony in direct,
2 correct?
3 A Correct.
4 Q Even though you took this great care, fair enough to say
5 that the Government got on two of your phones, right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Certainly you’re aware that they got on Mr. Simms phone
8 because we just heard a conversation between you and Mr. Simms,
9 right?
10 A Was I aware is your question?
11 Q I’m sorry, sir. Let me rephrase it. You are now aware
12 that the Government was on this particular telephone for
13 Mr. Simms where you were talking to him about this missing
14 load?
15 A Yes.
16 Q All right. And so you’re aware that they were on your
17 phones, too, right?
18 A No. I wasn’t aware.
19 Q Okay. You’re aware now? I’m sorry.
20 A Yes.
21 Q And you’re aware now that they’re on Mr. Simms’ phones,
22 correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And you’ve seen the applications and they were on a number
25 of phones. You’re aware of that as you testify here today,

1 right?
2 A Correct.
3 Q But at this point in time during any of your meetings with
4 the Government, the Government has not played a single phone
5 call where you identified Mr. Dillon as a person involved in
6 that telephone conversation, correct?
7 A Correct.
8 Q So when you contend that you spoke to Mr. Dillon on the
9 phone, there’s nothing to back that up but your word, is there,
10 that you’ve with the Government?
11 A Correct.
12 Q Your dealings with Mr. Simms in particular, you stated
13 that he’s lied to you on a number of occasions while you were
14 talking to him, correct, sir?
15 A Correct.
16 Q As a matter of fact, during one of your business --
17 illegal business dealings with Mr. Simms, you kept $30,000 that
18 he intended for the future purchase of cocaine to pay off a
19 previously owed debt, correct?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q So you took -- that was -- you have to concede that was
22 deception, right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q When you received that money, you told Mr. Simms that you
25 were going to help purchase more cocaine but you kept that
1 money --
2 A Yes.
3 Q -- and that wasn’t the deal at the time, correct?
4 A Correct.
5 Q Okay. One of the things that a drug dealer like yourself
6 is concerned about or was concerned about before the
7 indictments in this case came down was that somebody would
8 snitch on you, right?
9 A Sure.
10 Q Before you were indicted and/or self-surrendered, you were
11 -- you understand how the snitch game works, right?
13 THE COURT: It’s vague and ambiguous. You can
14 rephrase.
15 MR. ROGERS: Thank you.
17 MR. ROGERS: Thank you.
18 BY MR. ROGERS:
19 Q Mr. Corral, you’re -- one of the things that people who
20 are dealing drugs don’t want to happen is they don’t want to
21 get caught, right?
22 A Absolutely.
23 Q And you understand that the Government utilizes people
24 that tell on other people in the presentation of prosecution,
25 that they use snitches in their cases against people they

1 charge. Fair enough?
2 A Yeah.
3 Q And so when you were on the street before you were
4 indicted, you were concerned that somebody would snitch on you,
5 right?
6 A Sure.
7 Q Mr. Simms and other people, correct?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And you’ve had an opportunity to review the discovery in
10 this particular case as it pertains to you, correct, sir?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And you’re aware that people said things about you that
13 weren’t true, right?
14 A True.
15 Q They said your mother was involved in this conspiracy.
16 You’ve reviewed that, correct?
17 A Correct.
18 Q All right. And as far as you know, your mother’s never
19 been charged, has she?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. And your mother’s not involved in working with you
22 in your drug conspiracy, correct?
23 A She’s far from it.
24 Q Okay. And certainly the Government, in exchange for your
25 cooperation, didn’t promise not to prosecute your mother. Fair

1 enough? That’s not part any conversation that you had with any
2 member of the Government?
3 A Correct?
4 Q All right. When your home was searched, you resided at
5 6416 West 83rd Street in Los Angeles for a period of time in
6 the year 2007, correct, sir?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q And you relayed, before your home was searched, to
9 Mr. Simms that you believed indictments may be coming down
10 soon?
11 A Yes.
12 Q That was on a telephone conversation between you and
13 Mr. Simms, correct, sir?
14 A It sounds right.
15 Q Okay. Sometimes before the indictments actually came
16 down, you got word that they might be coming down, correct?
17 A I had heard it somewhere, yes.
18 Q Sir, when your home was searched on November the 6th,
19 2007, you weren’t home, were you?
20 A Correct.
21 Q You’re aware though, sir, 17 cell phones were recovered
22 from that residence?
23 A Yes.
24 Q All right. And the Government’s in possession of those
25 cell phones as far as you know, correct, sir?

1 A Uh-huh, yes.
2 Q And you can’t point to any one of those cell phones to
3 support your story that you used one of them to speak to
4 Mr. Dillon?
7 BY MR. ROGERS:
8 Q To support your contention that you spoke to Mr. Dillon?
9 A The cell phone I talked to him on was on me 24/7.
10 Q Where’s that cell phone today, sir?
11 A I threw it away.
12 Q So there is nothing to support your contention that you
13 spoke to Mr. Dillon on a cell phone other than your word?
16 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that, please?
17 BY MR. ROGERS:
18 Q Yes, sir. There is no cell phone record that you reviewed
19 to support that you talked to Mr. Dillon, correct?
20 A Correct.
21 Q There is -- you did not produce any cell phone and hand it
22 over to the Government to show them this is the phone that I
23 spoke to Mr. Dillon with, right?
24 A Correct.
25 Q What we’re left with is your word?

1 A Correct.
2 Q Sir, you contend that you had -- strike that. You
3 understand, sir, that it’s -- that the Court has requested that
4 you in court identify individuals by name. You heard the judge
5 instruct you to do that earlier, correct?
6 A Yes, I did.
7 Q But you -- prior to the prosecution of this case, you
8 never used the word “Dillon” when referring to the person
9 Muscles ever, had you?
10 A Correct.
11 Q And what you did in this particular case is after the
12 indictments came down and you began coming to court, you tried
13 to put pieces of the puzzle together, right?
14 A Pieces --
15 Q Match names with nicknames and things?
16 A Well, you get the indictment, you look at it and you know
17 who “who” is. I’m -- yeah.
18 Q But you hadn’t --
19 A I’m --
20 Q You could no more on November 7th, 2007 linked Muscles to
21 any particular name. You couldn’t have done that on that day,
22 right, sir?
23 A Correct.
24 Q But as time progressed and you reviewed discovery, you
25 became familiar with the people in the discovery, correct?

1 A Yes.
2 Q All right. And the indictment assisted you in putting
3 that -- names with nicknames as well, correct?
4 A Yes.
5 Q All right. You became aware that the Government executed
6 a search warrant of 6416 West 83rd Street close in time to the
7 actual execution of that warrant, correct?
8 A Yes.
9 Q All right. But you were not arrested on November the 6th,
10 2007, were you?
11 A Correct.
12 Q You went on the run, right?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And your lawyer and yourself turned you in knowing that
15 there was a fugitive warrant for your arrest in 2008, correct?
16 A Yes.
17 Q So there is a period of time where you didn’t volunteer to
18 turn yourself in from November to January of ’08, right? You
19 remained on the run during that time period, right?
20 A Yes. I was trying to find the proper lawyer to walk me
21 through it.
22 Q All right. And you did self-surrender in January of the
23 year 2008, correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q All right. And you’re aware, sir, that a number -- that

1 the Government in this particular case moved to have a number
2 of people charged in this case detained without a bond, right?
4 THE COURT: Overruled. If he knows, he can answer.
5 BY MR. ROGERS:
6 Q You’re aware that a lot of guys charged in this indictment
7 were detained -- they were locked up, right?
8 A Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
9 Q And they were not given an opportunity to make bond,
10 right?
11 A I’m not aware of that. I don’t know.
12 Q Okay. In your case though, are you aware of whether or
13 not the Government moved to detain you with -- for -- to not
14 allow you to have a bond? Was that motion filed?
15 A No, I don’t --
16 Q And the reason it wasn’t filed is because when you went
17 in, you agreed to start cooperating with them, right?
18 A Correct.
19 Q It’s a deal you and your lawyer were involved with making
20 with the Government, correct?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And so on the very day that you turned yourself in, you
23 began to speak to Government agents including Ms. Wang from the
24 United States Attorney’s Office?
25 A Correct.
1 Q That date was -- I’m sorry -- February 26th, 2008,
2 correct?
3 A Sounds right.
4 Q Sir, what’s been previously marked as Defendant’s Exhibit
5 306, might it help refresh your recollection as to the date of
6 your first meeting with Ms. Wang and the Government if you
7 refer to notes of that meeting?
8 A Can you rephrase that, please?
9 Q No problem. Would it help you out if you were able to
10 look to notes of that meeting to see the date that the meeting
11 took place?
12 A It was the day when I surrendered.
13 Q And I had previously stated that it was January but it was
14 February 28th, 2008?
15 A Yeah.
16 Q Okay. Sir, I’m not looking for you to guess and I don’t
17 mean to confuse you. When you agreed with me that you turned
18 yourself in in January of 2008, you remember agreeing that you
19 did it in that month? This is a time question. Do you
20 remember agreeing that you turned yourself in in January?
21 A Yes, I did. Yes.
22 Q But, sir, I believe now that it was actually February that
23 you turned yourself in. Can you tell me as you sit here today
24 using your memory whether you turned yourself in in January of
25 ’08 or February of ’08?

1 A February.
2 Q Okay.
3 A Late February.
4 Q All right. February 26, 2008, perhaps.
5 A Sounds right.
6 Q All right. Whenever it was, whatever date it was that you
7 turned yourself in, that same day you sat down and met with
8 Government agents. We’re clear about that, right?
9 A Yes.
10 Q All right. And your lawyer, before even turning you in,
11 told you how important it was to tell the Government the truth,
12 right?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And Ms. Wang and Government -- and Agent Smith were there
15 when you first sat down with them and they said, “Mr. Corral,
16 don’t lie to us.” Didn’t they?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And they said, “If you lie to us, we might not be able to
19 use you as a witness in our prosecution in the future and all
20 bets are off,” right? That was generally conveyed to you, that
21 message, true?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And what you did when you went into that meeting is you
24 lied to them, didn’t you?
25 A Yes.
1 Q Told them that Simms was small-time marijuana dealer,
2 right?
3 A Something like that.
4 Q Didn’t tell them the same information that you relayed
5 here today about dealing with Mr. Simms in significant amount
6 of kilo cocaine drug transactions. You didn’t tell them that?
7 A No. That meeting -- I remember when that meeting took
8 place. I’ve --
9 Q A meeting was -- I’m sorry.
10 A I’ve never experienced nothing like. I didn’t know what
11 was going on --
12 Q And so --
13 A -- and I didn’t know what to expect.
14 Q Okay. And so in your words today, that gives you
15 permission to lie? Not knowing what to expect made it okay for
16 you to lie to them. Is that what you’re saying?
17 A Not no --
19 THE COURT: Overruled. He can respond.
20 THE WITNESS: Can you rephrase that again?
21 BY MR. ROGERS:
22 Q Your not knowing what to expect gave you an excuse to lie
23 to the United States Attorney’s Office during that February
24 26th proffer. Is that what you’re saying?
25 A It gave me what?
1 Q Are you trying to imply with your answer to my question
2 that because you didn’t know what to expect --
3 A Right.
4 Q -- during that proffer meeting --
5 A Right.
6 Q -- that it was okay for you to lie?
7 A It’s not okay to lie but I just -- I was confused, never
8 experienced nothing like that.
9 Q Well, are you --
10 A I didn’t know what to expect.
11 Q Have you ever experienced testifying in court before, sir?
13 Q Okay. So you don’t know what to expect here today,
14 correct, sir?
15 A Absolutely.
16 Q July 7th, 2007 is this 100-kilo non-transaction that we’ve
17 been speaking of, correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And I call it a non-transaction. You understand as you
20 sit here today there was never any drugs. There was never
21 100,000 kilos that ever left the state of California intended
22 for
23 St. Louis on or about July 7th, ’07?
24 THE COURT: One hundred kilos.
25 THE WITNESS: One hundred.

1 MR. ROGERS: I’m sorry. Thank you, your Honor.
2 BY MR. ROGERS:
3 Q One hundred kilos.
4 A Correct.
5 Q All right. And during your direct examination, you stated
6 that you had Mr. Dillon’s telephone number and you spoke to him
7 on it occasionally, right?
8 A Yes.
9 Q You didn’t have his telephone -- you didn’t have Muscles’
10 telephone number on July 7th, 2007, did you?
11 A We had a number that we communicated on.
12 Q Well, certainly in August of 2007 when you’re on the
13 recorded phone call -- well, strike that. What was the number?
14 A Which number?
15 Q The number that you say that you had of the guy named
16 Muscles from St. Louis in July of 2007?
17 A I can’t remember it completely but it was a 636.
18 Q Well, that’s half of St. Louis, sir.
19 A Oh, okay.
20 Q You understand that?
21 A That’s the only thing I can give you.
22 Q Six three six is the prefix -- is the area code for half
23 of St. Louis’ telephone numbers. Are you aware of that?
24 MR. CROWFOOT: Counsel is testifying.
25 THE COURT: It’s a question and you can answer.

1 BY MR. ROGERS:
2 Q You’re aware of that, sir?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay.
5 THE COURT: Okay. We’ll stop. We’re going to --
6 Monday I have another calendar to handle in the morning. So
7 we’ll start at 9:30. Have a good weekend, Thanksgiving
8 holiday. Please do not discuss the case amongst yourselves or
9 with any other person. Again, Monday at 9:30.
10 (Jurors exited the courtroom at 12:01 p.m.)
11 THE COURT: Let’s see. Just a few housekeeping
12 matters. The jury’s been excused. Counsel remains. Please
13 have a seat. When does --
14 MR. SPEAKER: Does the witness remain, your Honor?
15 THE COURT: Yeah, the witness is excused. You can --
16 witnesses can leave also. When does the Government believe
17 they will conclude? December 4th still the target date?
18 MS. WANG: Yes, your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Okay. And then Defense, when do you
20 believe you will conclude? December 12th is still the target
21 date? Yes?
22 MR. ROGERS: We’ll conclude before that, I would
23 guess, your Honor. I’m conferring with Co-counsel.
24 MR. KALOYANIDES: I think that’s --
25 THE COURT: Okay. I have another trial to start

135
1 after this one here but I just want to make -- to get a
2 determination as to when we will conclude in this case. The
3 Government still has another second portion of a count to
4 proceed with.
5 MS. WANG: We do but it’s very short, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: And how long will that take?
7 MS. O’NEILL: Your Honor, I’d estimate approximately
8 two hours. I’d also like to alert the Court that for that
9 second part, we would be proving some of the elements of
10 possession in the bifurcated count. We haven’t proven them all
11 here in this trial.
12 THE COURT: Okay. Okay.
13 MR. COOPER: And, your Honor, there is one scheduling
14 matter. It’s about Mr. Beard. I will know more about the
15 Defense case if the Government can tell me if they are going to
16 call Steven Peoples, aka Rambo, because that will shorten my
17 defense if they don’t call him.
18 THE COURT: Okay. You mean in this portion of the
19 case?
20 MR. COOPER: Yes.
21 THE COURT: Have you --
22 MS. WANG: Well, we’re not going to call Peoples in
23 our case-in-chief, your Honor.
24 THE COURT: That answers your question.
25 MR. COOPER: Okay.

136
1 THE COURT: Thank you. Have a good holiday.
2 MR. COOPER: Thank you.
3 MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, your Honor.
4 (This proceeding was adjourned at 12:03 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATION
I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the
electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-
entitled matter.
November 28, 2008 _
TONI HUDSON, TRANSCRIBER

Ralph Simms Testimony

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Case 2:07-cr-01215-SJO Document 755 Filed 12/01/2008 Page 1 of 137

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) CASE NO: CR-07-01215(A)-SJO

BEFORE THE HONORABLE S. JAMES OTERO,

Appearances: See next page

Court Recorder: Margarita Lopez

Deputy Clerk: Victor P. Cruz

Law Clerks: Emily Churg

Transcribed by: Exceptional Reporting Services, Inc.

Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording;

The Government: ROSALIND WANG, ESQ.

FBI: Agent James Smith

Oscar Dillon: JOHN P. ROGERS, ESQ.

Tracy Prince: ROBERT M. ROSS, ESQ.

Roy Burris: DAVID KALYONIDES, ESQ.

Demond Lee: PETER CARL SWARTH, ESQ.

Bernard Beard: JAMES PERNELL COOPER, III, ESQ.

EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

WITNESS FOR THE DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

GOVERNMENT’S EXHIBITS RECEIVED

EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

1 Los Angeles, California; Wednesday, November 26, 2008;8:35 a.m.

3 THE CLERK: Please come to order. This Court is

5 THE COURT: Okay. Please have a seat. We’re back on

6 the record on United States versus Payne. All Counsel are

7 present with the Defendants.

8 Mr. Simms is back in the witness chair. The

9 Government has rested with Mr. Simms yesterday. What’s the

11 MS. WANG: Oh, I’m sorry, your Honor. I didn’t

12 realize that I had rested. I assumed that we were going into

14 time to cut off.

15 THE COURT: Well, we had redirected.

16 MS. WANG: I mean re-redirected.

17 THE COURT: How many re’s do you -- are you

19 MS. WANG: I’m not requesting any, your Honor. I

21 THE COURT: Well, what do you need to cover?

22 MS. WANG: I just wanted to go into some of the --

23 THE COURT: Well, what’s the offer of proof?

24 MS. WANG: Well, it’d just be --

25 THE COURT: As to why the Court should allow you to

2 MS. WANG: The only issue is that I think the Defense

5 THE COURT: I think that’s the impression that the

7 MS. WANG: But I think that --

8 THE COURT: And I think that’s a reasonable

10 MS. WANG: And I think Government will want to

11 clarify that with Mr. Simms.

12 THE COURT: Well, what parts are you going to

14 MS. WANG: Well, I think the -- I think what the

16 did not subsequently lie after that.

18 THE COURT: Every time Mr. Simms is asked a question

19 he seems to tell a different story. For example, with Exhibit

20 268 the 11 page conversation regarding Mr. Burris, he’s

21 testified on direct and redirect regarding the -- his

22 understanding of certain portions of the conversations, on

23 cross-examination he testified that he doesn’t really remember

24 what the conversation was really about and there -- the

25 question is whether he’s referring to the entire conversation

1 or only portions of it. He says Mr. Burris was never involved,

2 never bought, never sold, never assisted, never helped -- does

3 the Government have more than this?

4 MS. WANG: Really it was just to clarify the -- those

5 -- that situation with the proffers.

6 THE COURT: No, but in reference to Mr. Burris, for

8 This witness has said Mr. Burris was never involved