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w ith
th e
X
in
\u201cB rin g u ie r
E x h ib it
S o .
1 \u201d
is
th e
m an
w ho
w as
in
th e
b a r
a n d
w ho
h e
id e n tifie s
a s
L e e
H a rve y
O s w a ld
m ore
th a n
h e
is
a b o u t
th e
m an
s h o w n
in
\u201cG a rn e r
E x h ib it
N o.
1 .\u201d
D d
yo u
b a re
a n y
q u e s tio n
th a t
th a t
m an
w as
in
yo u r
b a r,
re fe rrin g
to
th e
m an
p o rtra y e d
in
\u201cG a rn e r
E x h ib it
N o.
l? \u201d
M r.
R O D R IG U E Z .
A s
fa r
a s
th is
\u201cE x h ib it
S o .
1 ,\u201d
a
m an
a p p e a rs
to
b e
O s w a ld
a s
I
re c o g n iz e
h im
fro m
n e w sp a p e r
p ic tu re s
o f
O s w a ld .
M r.
L IE IIK L E R .
R e fe rrin g
to
\u201cG a rn e r
E x h ib it
N o.
1 .\u201d
R ut
th e
m an
in
\u201cI% rin g u ie r
E x h ib it
N o.
1 \u201d
lo o k s
m ore
lik e
th e
m an
w ho
w as
in
th e
b a r?
M r.
R O D R IG U F .Z .
T h e
m an
in
\u201cB rln g u ie r
E x h ib it
N o.
1 \u201d
I
h a ve
id e n tifie d
a s
th e
m an
w ho
I
le a rn e d
la te r
w as
O s w a ld .
M r.
L IF IX L E R
[h a n d in g
lb ic tu rr
to
w itn e s s ].
I
s h o w
yo u
a
p ic tu re
w h ic h
h a s
b e e n
m arked
\u201cP iz z o
E x h ib it
S o .
4 & \u201c-C ,\u201d
a n d
a s k
yo u
if
th a t
lo o k s
lik e
th e
m an
w ho
w as
in
th e
b a r.
M r.
R O D R IG U E Z .
T h is
a p p e a rs
to
m e
th a t
th is
is
th e
m an.
It
lo o k s
s o m e w h a t
lik e
th e
m an
th a t
w as
in
th e
b a r
w ith
O s w a ld ,
b u t-
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
L ik e
th e
m an
th a t
w as
in
th e
b a r
w ith
O s w a ld ?
M r.
R O D R IG U E Z .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
T h a t\u2019s
w h a t
h e
s a id ?
M r.
L o o a x.
K o w
h e
s a y s
n o .
H e
s a y s
th a t
th is -h o w
d o
yo u
w a n t
to
c a ll
it?
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
\u201cP iz z o
E x h ib it
S o .
4 % & C .\u201d
M r.
Loo~m .
\u201cP iz z o
E x h ib it
N o.
4 5 3 -C \u201d
d o e s
n o t
a p p e a r
lik e
th e
m an
in
b a r.
T h e
o th e r
m an
w as
m ore
o f
a
L a tin -a p p e a rin g
m an.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W e ll,
n o w ,
h a ve
yo u
e ve r
s e e n
th is
m an,
s e t
fo rth
in
\u201cP iz z a
E x h ib it
N o.
4 % & C ,\u201d
in
th e
b a r
a t
a ll
; at
a n y
tim e ?
h lr.
L IE B E L E R .
W hat
is
h e
s a y in g ?
M r.
LO G A N .
H e
is
s a y in g
th a t
th is
re m in d s
h im
o f
O s w a ld
b e c a u s e
o f
th e s e --th e
e ye
p a rt
h e re
[in d ic a tin g ],
th e
s a g g in g
e y e s ,
lik e ,
yo u
k n o lv -I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w
h o w
yo u
w a n t
to
s a y
th a t-lik e
h e
h a s
p u ffy
e y e lid s .
M r.
L IB E L E R .
H e
h a s
a n
a re a
a ro u n d
th e
e ye s-
M r.
LO G A N .
T h a t
re m in d s
h im
o f
O s w a ld .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D o e s
h e
id e n tify
th is
m an
a s
O s w a ld ?
M r.
L o o a x.
H e
s a y s
th a t
th e
m an
in
th is
e x h ib it
a p p e a rs
to
h im
to
b e
O s w a ld ,
b u t,
o f
c o u rs e ,
h e
s a y s
it
h a s
b e e n
a
lo n g
tim e
s in c e
h e
s a w
h im
a n d
h e
is
n o t
re a d y
to
b e
p o s itiv e
o n
th a t.
T h a t\u2019s
a s
c lo s e
a s
yo u
c a n
com e
to
it,
I
g u e s s .
h lr.
L IB E L E R .
Y o u
a re
n o t
s u re
th a t
th is
w as
th e
m an
th a t
w as
in
th e
b a r?
M r.
LO G A N .
N ow
h e
s a y s
it
is
h im .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
It
is
o r
is n \u2019t?
M r.
LO Q A N .
In
h is
m in d ,
\u201cB rin g u ie r
E x h ib it
N o.
1 \u201d
w h ic h
h a s
th e
m an
w ith
th e
X
o n
h im
is
th e
m an
w ho
w as
in
th e
b a r
a n d
w ho
h e
la te r
le a rn e d
w as
O s w a ld .
T h is
p ic tu re
s ta n d s
o u t
in
h is
m in d
th e
b e s t,
re m in d s
h im
o f
th e
m an
th e
b e s t
; this
o n -
h lr.
L IE B E L E R .
\u201cP iz z o
E x h ib it
;\\u2018o .
4 .5 3 -C .\u201d
h lr.
LO G A N .
A p p e a rs
to
h im
to
b e
O s w a ld ,
b u t
h e
s till
s a y s
th a t
th e
o th e r
p h o tc +
g ra p h
is
th e
o n e
th a t
h e
c a n
b e s t
id e n tify
h im
a s
th e
m an
w ho
w as
in
th e
b a r.
W hat
w e
h a ve
g o t
g o in g
h e re
is
th e
fa c t
th a t
th is
lo o k s
lik e
O s w a ld ,
b u t
h e
is -
p ro b a b ly
s in c e
th e
o th e r
p h o to g ra p h
re m in d s
h im
d is tin c tly
o f
th e
fa c t
th a t
th a t
w as
th e
m an
th a t
w as
in
th r\u2019b ir,
h e
is
a little
re lu c ta it\u2019
to
s a y \u2018th \u2019a t.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
A ll
rig h t.
T h a n k
yo u
ve ry
m uch.
T E S T IM O N Y
O F
O R E S T
P E N A
T h e
te s tim o n y
o f
O rest
P e n a
w as
ta k e n
o n
.J u ly
2 1 ,
1 9 G 4 ,
a t
th e
O ld
C iv il
C o u rts
B u ild in g ,
R o ya l
a n d
C o n ti
S tre e ts ,
S e w
O rle a n s ,
L a .,
b y
h lr.
W e s le y
J .
L ie b e le r.
a s s is ta n t
c o u n s e l
o f
th e
P re s id e n t\u2019s
C o m m is s io n .
O rest
P e n a ,
h a v in g
firs t
b e e n
d u ly
s w o rn ,
w as
e x a m in e d
a n d
te s tifie d
a s
fo llo w s
:
3 4 6
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W o u ld
yo u
s ta te
yo u r
fu ll
nam e
fo r
th e
re c o rd .
M r.
P E S A .
O rest
P e n a .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
T h a t\u2019s
O -r-e -s-t
P -e -n -a
; is
th a t
c o rre c t?
M r.
P E S A .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W hat
is
yo u r
a d d re s s ?
M r.
P ~ s a .
1 1 7
D e c a tu r.
M r.
L IE B E IX R .
Is
th a t
yo u r
p la c e
o f
b u s in e s s
o r
is
th a t
yo u r
re s id e n c e ?
M r.
P E S A .
S o
; th a t\u2019s
m y
p la c e
o f
b u s in e s s .
O n
th e
g ro u n d
flo o r
is
m y
p la c e
o f
b u s in e s s .
IO n
th e
s e c o n d
flo o r,
in
th e
re a r
o f
th e
s e c o n d
flo o r
I
liv e .
M r.
I,IE B E I.E R .
I
a n 1
a n
a tto rn e ;r
fo r
th e
P re s id e n t\u2019s
C o m m is s io n .
I
u n d e rs ta n d
th a t
th e
& w et
S e rv ic e
s e rrc d
a
s u b p e n n
o n
yo u
la s t
w e e k
a n d
yo u
a re
h e re
u n d e r
th a t
s u b l)e n a
a t
th is
tim e .
T h e
ru le s
o f
th e
C o m m is s io n
e n title
yo u
to
h a ve
yo u r
la w y e r
p re s e n t
if
yo u
w is h .
M r.
P E X A .
I
d o n \u2019t
th in k
I
n e e d
h im .
M r.
L IE B E I.E R .
Y o u
h a ve
th e
rig h t
u n d e r
o u r
ru le s
n o t
to
a n s w e r
a n y
q u e s tio n
th a t
g o n
d o n \u2019t
w a n t
to
a n s w e r
in
th v
firs t
in s ta n c e .
s p e c ify in g
th e
re a s o n s
if
yo u
d o
re fu s e
to
a n s w e r
a n y
q u e s tio n s .
I
a m
h e w
u n d e r
th e
a u th o rity
g ra n te d
to
th e
C o m m is s io n
b y
E x e c u tiv e
O rd e r
S o .
1 1 1 3 0 ,
d a te d
P l\u2019o v e m b e r
2 9 ,
1 9 6 3 ,
a n d
jo in t
re s o h tio n
o f
C o n g re s s
S o .
1 3 7 .
I
u n d e rs tn n d
th a t
a tta c h e d
to
th e
s n b p e n n
a re
c o l)ie s
o f
th e
E x e c u tiv e
o rd e r
th a t
I
h a ve
re fe rre d
to
a n d
ru le s
o f
th e
C o m m is s io n
: is
th a t
c o rre c t?
(T h e
w itn e s s
h a n d e d
docum ent
to
c o u n s e l.)
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y e s
; th e y
a re
a tta c h e d .
W h e re
w e re
yo u
b o rn ,
M r.
P e n a ?
M r.
P E X A .
In
C o lo n ,
C u b a .
M r.
L IE B E I.E R .
W hen?
M r.
P E S A .
A u g u s t.
1 5 ,1 9 2 3 .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
A re
yo u
a c itiz e n
o f
th e
I\u2019n ite d
S ta te s ?
M r.
P E N .\.
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W hen
d id
yo u
becom e
a c itiz e n ?
M r.
P E S A .
I
becam e
a c itiz e n
J la y
5 ,1 9 X
M r.
L IM E L E B .
A n d
yo u
becam e
a
c itiz e n
th ro u g h
n a tu ra liz a tio n ;
is
th a t
c o rre c t?
M r.
P E X A .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L F .R .
T h e
p la c e
o f
b u s in e s s
th a t
yo u
h a ve
a t
1 1 7
D e c a tu r
S tre e t
is
a
b a r
a n d
lo u n g e ?
M r.
P E S A .
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE R E I.E R .
W hat
is
th e
nam e
o f
it?
M r.
P E S A .
H a b a n a
B a r
a n d
L o u n g e .
X r.
L IE B E L E R .
A m
I
c o rre c t
in
u n d e rs ta n d in g
th a t
yo u
h a re
a
b ro th e r
b y
th e
nam e
o f
R u p e rto
P e n a ?
U r.
P E N N .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D o e s
h e
w o rk
w ith
yo u
in
th e
b a r
a n d
lo u n g e ?
M r.
P E R T A .
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
A m
I
a ls o
c o rre c t
in
u n d e rs ta n d in g
th a t
o n e
o f
th e
b a rte n d e rs
is
nam ed
E ra ris to
R o d riq n e z ?
M r.
P E K A .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D o
yo u
kn o w
C a rlo s
B rin g u ie r?
M r.
P E X A .
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Is
M r.
B rin g u ie r
c o n n e c te d
w ith
a
c lo th in g
s to re
lo c a te d
c lo s e
to
yo u r
b a r
a n d
lo u n g e ?
M r.
P E N A .
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE B E I.E R .
W hen
d id
.ro u
firs t
m eet
M r.
B rin g u ie r?
M r.
P E S A .
W hen
h e
cam e
to
th e --if
I
a m
n o t
w ro n g ,
I
b e lie v e
I
m et
h im
w h e n
h e
s ta rte d
th e
s to re .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
A p p ro x im a te ly
h o w
lo n g
a g o
w as
it
th a t
yo u
m et
M r.
B rin g u ie r?
M r.
P E N .\.
I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w
e x a c tly .
M ig h t
b e
a year
a n d
a
h a lf
o r
2 years.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
M r.
B rin g u ie r
is
a c tiv e
in
a n ti-C a s tro
C u b a n
a ffa irs ;
is
th a t
c o rre c t?
M r.
P ~ s .4 .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
H a ve
yo u
e ve r
h a d
a n y
c o n n e c tio n
w ith
C u b a n
p o litic s ?
3 4 7
M r.
P E N A .
N ot
w ith
h im ,
b u t
w ith
s o m e th in g
e ls e
h e re
in
N ew
O rle a n s ,
an
o rg a n iz a tio n ,
about
4
ye a rs
a g o ,
m ore
or
le s s .
M L
L IE B E L E R .
W hat
o rg a n iz a tio n
w as
th a t?
M r.
P E S A .
I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w .
T h e
F B I
kn o w
ve ry
w e ll
because
a
person
fro m
th e
F B I
w as
th e re
a ll
th e
tim e .
I
d o n \u2019t
rem em ber
e x a c tly
th e
nam e
o f
th e
o rg a n iz a -
tio n
rig h t
n o w ,
b u t
th e
o rg a n iz a tio n
w as
in
th e
B a lte r
B u ild in g ,
I
th in k ,
in
th e
second
flo o r.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W h a te v e r
th e
o rg a n iz a tio n \u2019s
nam e
w a s,
w as
it
an
a n ti-C a s tro
C uban
o rg a n iz a tio n ?
M r.
P E N A .
It
w as
in
th e
B a lte r
B u ild in g ,
th e
o n ly
one
th e re .
M r.
L IE B E I~ R .
Is
th a t
th e
o rg a n iz a tio n
s o m e tim e s
kn o w n
as
Ju re ,
J -u -r-e ?
M r.
P E N A .
I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
J u n ta
R w o lu c io n a ria
C ubana?
M r.
P E N A .
T h e
c h ie f
or
th e
\u2018b o s s
o f
th a t
o rg a n iz a tio n ,
w ho
w as
in
M ia m i,
B a rro n a .
H e
w as
th e
boss
o f
th a t
o rg a n iz a tio n .
M r.
~ ,IE B E L E R .
B a rro n a ?
M r.
P E N A .
Y e s .
H e
w as
th e
boss
o f
th a t
o rg a n iz a tio n .
J Ir.
L IE B E L E R .
W hen
d id
you
le a v e
C uba?
M r.
P E N A .
I
le ft
C uba
in
S e p te m b e r
1946.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
H ave
you
been
back
to
C uba
s in c e
th a t
tim e ?
M r.
P E N A .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W o u ld
you
te ll
us
w hen?
M r.
P E N A .
O h,
m any
tim e s
I
w e n t
to
C uba.
M y
la s t
tim e
I
w e n t
to
C uba
w as
about
8
m o n th s ,
I
b e lie v e ,
a fte r
C a s tro
to o k
o ve r,
b u t
b e fo re ,
I
used
to
g o
ve ry
o fte n
because
a ll
m y
fa m ily
is
in
C uba,
m y
m o th e r,
m y
fa th e r-b e fo re
m y
fa th e r
d ie d ,
I
used
to
g o
to
C uba
m any
tim e s .
I
w as
a
seam an,
to o .
I
used
to
s h ip
o u t
w ith
th e
U n ite d
F ru it
C o.
and
th e
L yke s
B ro th e rs
C o.
T h a t\u2019s
b e fo re
C a s tro
to o k
o ve r.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W hen
d id
you
s to p
w o rk in g
as
a seaman?
M r.
P E N A .
Ju st
b e fo re
I
w e n t
in
b u s in e s s ,
in -1
w e n t
in
b u s in e s s
1958.
I
s to p
in
1957.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y ou
s to p p e d
w o rk in g
as
a
seam an
in
1957?
M r.
P E N A .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L F X
W ere
you
in
C uba
in
A p ril
or
M ay
o f
1959?
M r.
P E N A .
I
th in k
th a t\u2019s
th e
la s t
tim e
I was
in
C uba.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W hat
w as
th e
purpose
o f
your
trip
to
C uba
a t
th a t
tim e ?
,M r.
P E N A .
I
w e n t
to
C u b a -I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w .
I
w e n t
to
have
an
o p e ra tio n .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W h ile
you
w e re
in
C uba,
d id
you
have
any
c o n ta c t
w ith
any
o ffic ia ls
in
th e
C a s tro
g o v e rn m e n t?
M r.
P E N A .
N o
; not
a n y.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
H ave
you
ever
expressed
a
fa v o ra b le
a ttitu d e
to w a rd
th e
C a s tro
re g im e ?
M r.
P E N A .
N o;
I
never
w as
fo r-1
w as
a g a in s t
B a tis ta ,
b u t
I
never
w as
even-1
d id n \u2019t
even
kn o w
C a s tro .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y ou
had
n o th in g
to
do
w ith
C a s tro ?
M r.
P E N A .
N o.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
N ow
a fte r
you
cam e
back
to
th e
U n ite d
S ta te s
fro m
C uba
in
195GM r.
P E N A .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
you
g o
d ire c tly
back
to
th e
U n ite d
S ta te s ?
M r.
P E N A .
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
you
g o
anyw here
e ls e --
M r.
P E N A .
N o.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
E xce p t
to
C uba
on
th a t
trip ?
M r.
P E N A .
N o;
I
cam e
back
to -1
w e n t
fro m
h e re
t-d ire c tly
fro m
h e re
to
H avana
and
fro m
H avana
to
N ew
O rle a n s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
A fte r
your
trip
to
C uba
in
1959,
w hen
w as
th e
n e xt
tim e
th a t
you
w e re
o u t
o f
th e
U n ite d
S ta te s ?
M r.
P E N A .
It
w as
la s t
sum m er.
I
w e n t
on
v a c a tio n
to
M e x ic o .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
H ow
lo n g
w e re
you
th e re ?
M r.
P E N A .
N in e
d a ys.
I
p la n
2
w e e ks,
b u t
I
g o t
s ic k
to
m y
s to m a c h ,
so
I
cam e
b a ck.
3 4 8
of 00

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