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th e
ro u te ,
a n d
th e
m e th o d
o f
tra n s p o rt.
H e
s a id
h e
le ft
fro m
N ew
O rle a n s
S e p te m b e r
1 9 .
I
w a s n \u2019t
a b s o lu te ly
s u re
th a t
w as
th e
d a te
h e
g a v e
m e,
o n
a
F rid a y
b y
s h ip .
A c tu a lly
th e
1 9 th
w as
a S a tu rd a y .
A n d
h e m ig h t
h a v e
le ft
o n
th e
1 8 th .
T h a t
it to o k
h im
12 days
to
g e t to
Le Havre,
th a t
he booked
a flig h t
to
H e ls in k i
b u t
y o u
c o u ld n \u2019t
f l y
to
H e ls in k i
fro m
L e
H a v re .
Y o u
w o u ld
h a v e
to
fly from
P a ris .
M r.
S L A W S O N . A c tu a lly
h e
fle w
fro m
L o n d o n .
H e
w e n t
fro m
L e
H a rre
to
L o n d o n
a n d
th e n
H e ls in k i.
M iss
JOHNSON. By
th e
sam e
s h ip ?
M r.
SLAWSON. No;
b y
a irp la n e
I
b e lie v e .
A n y w a y
h e
d is e m b a rk e d
o n
th e
s h ip
at Le
H a v re ,
as he
to ld
y o u ,
th e n
w e n t
fro m
th e re
to
L o n d o n
I
b e lie v e
b y
a irp la n e ,
a lth o u g h
I a m .n o t
c e rta in .
B u t
th e n
he went
b y
a irp la n e
fro m
L o n d o n
to
H e ls in k i.
M iss
J O H N S O N . Y e s ; a c tu a lly
h e g o t h is
v is a
in
L o n d o n
p ro b a b ly .
M r.
S L A W S O N . W e ll,
I do know
som e
o f th e s e
fa c ts ,
b u t
I w o u ld
lik e
y o u
to
g o
o n th e b e s t o f y o u r
re c o lle c tio n .
M iss
J O H N S O N . H e s a id
n o th in g
a b o u t
L o n d o n
a t a ll.
I never
w as
s u re
h o w
th e
h e ll
h e
g o t to
H e ls in k i,
b u t
h e s a id
h e
w e n t
b y
tra in
fro m
H e ls in k i
to
M oscow ,
a n d
h e re p e a te d
th a t
fo r
10 days he had
b e e n
o n th o s e
v o u c h e rs .
M r.
S L A W ~ O N . D id
h e
in d ic a te
to
y o u
a n y th in g
a b o u t
h o w
h e
g o t
h is
v is a ?
M iss
JOHNBON. No;
n o t
a t
a ll.
I
m ay
w e ll
h a v e
a s k e d
h im
to o .
A
q u e s tio n
a n d
a
n o n re p ly ,
th o u g h ,
a re
n o t
re c o rd e d
in
m y
n o te s ,
b u t
I
m ay
w e ll
h a v e
a s k e d
h im .
On the
o th e r
h a n d
I th in k
I w o u ld
h a v e
re m e m b e re d
i f
he had
s a id
a n y th in g .
I f
h e
ju s t
e v a d e d
th e
w ay
h e
e v a d e d
a lot,
I
m ig h t
n o t
h a v e
p u t
it
d o w n ,
b e c a u s e
e v a s io n
w as
re a lly
q u ite
c h a ra c te ris tic
o f
h im .
B u t
of course
I
w as
c u rio u s
w h e re
he got it,
a n d
h o w .
A n d
I do have
$ 3 0 w ritte n
d o w n
h e re
a s
th e
ra te .
Y o u
k n o w
th e re
w as
a b u s in e s s m a n \u2019s
ra te
of $12
a day
a t
th a t
tim e ,
a n d
a ls o
th e
$ 3 0
ra te
I
a m
te llin g
y o u
is a s o f th a t
tim e
b e c a u s e
it
is n o w
$ 3 5 .
B u t
I
d o
h a v e
$ 3 0
w ritte n
d o w n ,
so I
assum ed
th a t
h e
s p e c ifie d
th a t
h e
w as
th e re
a t th e
$ 3 0
ra te
th o s e
10 days,
n o t
th e
$ 1 2 .
N o;
h e
s a id
n o th in g
a b o u t
a
v is a , a n d
of course
I was
c u rio u s .
M r.
SLAWSON. I
h a v e
n o
m ore
s p e c ific
q u e s tio n s ,
M iss
J o h n s o n .
I f
y o u
h a v e
a n y th in g
a t
a ll
to
a d d ,
or any
fu rth e r
c o m m e n ts
y o u
w a n t
to
m ake,
p le a s e
g o
a h e a d
a n d
do so.
M iss
JOHNSON. No;
I d o n \u2019t.
M r.
SLAWEON. Thank
you very
m uch
fo r
c o m in g
h e re .
M iss
JO H N S O N . Thank
y o u .
T E S T IM O N Y
O F
E R IC
R O G E R S
T h e
te s tim o n y
o f
E ric
R o g e rs
w as
ta k e n
o n
J u ly
21, 1964,
a t
th e
O ld
C iv il
C o u rts
B u ild in g ,
R o y a l
a n d
C o n ti
S tre e ts ,
N ew
O rle a n s ,
L a .,
b y
M r.
W e s le y
J .
L ie b e le r,
a s s is ta n t
c o u n s e l
o f th e P re s id e n t\u2019s
C o m m is s io n .
E ric
R o g e rs ,
h a v in g
b e e n
tlr s t
d u ly
s w o rn ,
w as
e x a m in e d
a n d
te a title d
a s
fo llo w s
:
M r.
L IE B E L E B .
M r.
R o g e rs ,
I
a m
a n
a tto rn e y
OD the
s ta ff
o f
th e
P re s id e n t\u2019s
C o m m is s io n .
I th in k
I met you
one day.
M r.
ROQEBS. I
re m e m b e r
y o u ;
y e s , s ir.
M r.
L IE B E L E B .
I w a n te d
to
a s k
y o u
a few
q u e s tio n s
a b o u t
O s w a ld .
I
a m
q u e s -
tio n in g
y o u
u n d e r
a u th o rity
g ra n te d
to
m e
b y
th e
C o m m is s io n
u n d e r
E x a tiv e
O rd e r
N o . 1 1 1 3 0 , d a te d
N o v e m b e r
29, 1933, and
jo in t
re s o lu tio n
of Congress,
N O .
1 3 7 .
Y o u
a re
e n title d
to
h a v e
a n
a tto rn e y
i f
y o u
w a n t
to
a n d
y o u
d o n \u2019t
h a v e
to
a n s w e r
a n y q u e s tio n s
if you
fe e l th a t
th e y a re in c rim in a tin g .
M r.
R O G E B S . W e ll,
I c a n \u2019t
a n s w e r
w h a t
I d o n \u2019t
k n o w .
I w ill
te ll
y o u ju s t
w h a t
I told
th e m , y o u
s e e .
T h a t\u2019s
a ll I s a w .
M r.
L IE B E L E R . M r.
R o g e rs ,
a m
I
c o rre c t
in
u n d e rs ta n d in g
th a t
y o u
liv e d
a t
4 9 0 7 M a g a z in e
S tre e t
d u rin g
th e p e rio d
la s t
sum m er
w h e n -
4 6 0
M r.
R O G E R S .
I
d id
; a few
m o n th s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W hen
d id
yo u
m ove
th e re ?
M r.
R O O E R S .
It
w as
a ro u n d
in
th e -in
.J u ly ,
a ro u n d
.J u ly .
M r.
L IE R E L E R .
W as
O s w a ld
th e re ?
3 lr.
R O W E R S .
H e
w as
th e re
fo r
a short
p e rio d
o f
tim e .
M r.
L IE B E I.E R .
T o n
liv e d
rig h t
n e s t
d o o r
to
O s w a ld ?
M r.
R O O E R S .
M y
a p a rtm e n t
w as
in
th e
fro n t
a n d
m y
w in d o w
w as
rig h t
n e x t-
n e a r
h is
a p a rtm e n t.
M r.
I~ E B E T ~ E R .
Y o u
m et
O s w a ld
a n d
cam e
to
kn o w
h im ?
D id
yo u
e ve r
m eet
h im ?
M r.
R O W E R S .
S o :
I
n e ve r
m et
h im .
H e
d id n \u2019t
b id
th e
tim e
to
a n yo n e .
M r.
L IF X E L E R .
D id
yo u
ta lk
to
h im
o r
a n y th in g ?
M r.
R O G E R S .
N o;
n e ve r
d id .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
yo u
kn o w
w h a t
h is
nam e
w a s ?
M r.
R O G E R S ,
J u s t
b y
m a il
c o m in g
in
th e
b o x
o n
th e
fro n t.
M r.
L IE R E L E R .
D id
yo u
e ve r
ta lk
to
h is
w ife ?
M r.
R O G E R S .
S h e
s p o k e
R u s s ia n .
S h e
d id
b id
th e
tim e
o f
d a y,
th a t\u2019s
a ll,
b u t
h e
d id n \u2019t.
H e
w o u ld n \u2019t
b id
th e
tim e
to
n o
o n e .
M r.
L IE B E IZ R .
D id
th e y
e ve r
h a ve
a n y
a rg u m e n ts
th a t
yo u
kn o w
o f?
M r.
R O G E R S .
S o m e
s p a ts ,
b u t
in
R u s s ia n ,
lo o k e d
lik e .
Y o u
kn o w
w h a t
I
m ean?
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
T h e y
s p o k e
R u s s ia n
a n d
yo u
c o u ld n \u2019t
u n d e rs ta n d
w h a t
th e y
w e re
s a y in g ?
M r.
R O G E R S .
Y e s ,
s ir.
M r.
L IE B E I~ E R .
D id
yo u
e ve r
s e e
O s w a ld
h a ve
a n y
v is ito rs
a t
h is
a p a rtm e n t?
M r.
R O G E R S .H e
h a d
n o
o n e .
H ad
som e
k in d
o f
a
d a rk
fe llo w
a s k e d
w h e re
h e
liv e d .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
h e
a p p e a r
to
b e
a Cuban?
M r.
R O G E R S .Y e s
; S p a n is h
ty p e
o f
p e rs o n .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W as
th a t
in
A u g u s t,
d o
yo u
re m e m b e r?
M r.
R O G E R S .A ro u n d
th a t
tim e .
I
b e lie v e
it
w as
a ro u n d
th a t
tim e .
M r.
L IE B E I.E R .
N ow
d o
yo u
rem em ber
a n yb o d y
e ls e
th a t
v is ite d
O s w a ld
a t
h is
a p a rtm e n t?
M r.
R O G E R S . P ro b a b ly
a t
th e
tim e
th e y
h a d
th is -y o u
k n o w -F a ir
P la y
fo r
C u b a ,
s o m e th in g
lik e
th a t.
I
th in k
th e y
w e re
ra d io
in te rv ie w e rs ,
I
th in k .
L o o ke d
lik e
lo c a l
p e o p le .
D id n \u2019t
lo o k
lik e -h e a rd
h im
s a y in g
s o m e th in g
a b o u t
w a n tin g
to
p la y
o n
ra d io .
T h a t\u2019s
a ll.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y o u
d o n \u2019t
rem em ber
a n y
o th e r
o n e s ?
M r.
R O G E R S ,
N ot
th a t
I
kn o w
o f
u n le s s
I
w as
a t
w o rk.
I
w a s n \u2019t
th e re
a ll
th e
tim e .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y o u r
w ife
w as
in
th e
h o s p ita l
p a rt
o f
th is
tim e ,
is
th a t
c o rre c t?
M r.
R O Q E R S .
T h a t\u2019s
rig h t.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
yo u
w o rk
a t
th a t
tim e ,
s ir?
M r.
R O G E R S .N o;
I
w a s n \u2019t
w o rk in g
a t
th a t
tim e .
S e e ,
M r.
L ie b e le r,
I
a m
o n
p e n s io n ,
yo u
s e e .
I
a m
o n ly
a llo w e d
to
m ake
s o
m uch
a
ye a r
b e c a u s e
o f
th e
p e n s io n ,
yo u
s e e .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
I
s e e .
D id
yo u
e ve r
s e e
O s w a ld
s ittin g
o n
th e
fro n t
p o rc h ?
M r.
R O G E R S .O h,
y e s
; w ith
b o o k s ,
re a d in g .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
h e
re a d
a lot?
M r.
ROGERS. Yes.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
yo u
e ve r
s e e
a n y
r ifle
o r
fire a rm s
o f
a n y
ty p e
in
h is
p o s s e s s io n
a t
th a t
tim e ?
M r.
R O G E R S .
N o;
I
n e ve r.
W e
d id
s e e
o n e
tim e
s o m e -th e
m a ilm a n
b ro u g h t
a
b ig
p a c k a g e
in .
I
w o u ld n \u2019t
s a y
w h a t
it
w a s ,
o f
c o u rs e .
I
g u e s s
th e y
c h e c k e d
th a t
th ro u g h
th e
m a il.
M r.
L IE R E L E R .
W hen
w as
th a t?
M r.
R O G E R S .
It
w as
in
th e
sum m er,
som e
tim e
b e fo re
h e
le ft,
so m e w h e re
a ro u n d
th a t
tim e .
M r.
L IE B E L F Z .
O s w a ld \u2019s
a p a rtm e n t
h a d
a little
p o rc h
in
th e
fro n t?
M r.
R O G E R S .
S c re e n e d
p o rc h .
M r.
LEERELER. It
h a d
b lin d s
in
it,
to o ,
th a t
y o u
c o u ld
le t
d o w n ,
d id
it
n o t?
M r.
RW ERS.
Y e s .
4 6 1
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
S o
it
w o u ld
h a ve
b e e n
p o s s ib le
fo r
h im
to
h a ve
s a t
in
th a t
p o rc h
a n d
yo u
c o u ld n \u2019t
s e e
h im
ve ry
w e ll
fro m
th e
s tre e t?
M r.
R O Q E R S .
H e
w o u ld n \u2019t
d is c u s s
a n y th in g
o n
th e
p o rc h ,
H e
w o u ld
g o
in
th e
h o u s e .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W o u ld
it
h a ve
b e e n
p o s s ib le
to
s it
in
th a t
p o rc h
a n d
d ro p
th e
b lin d s
s o
th a t
p e o p le
c o u ld n \u2019t
s e e
yo u ?
M r.
R O Q E R S .
It
c o u ld
b e
p o s s ib le .
I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w .
I
n e v e r-1
s e e n
h im
s ittin g
d o w n
th e re
a n d
g o
in
a n d
o u t,
c o m in g
in
a n d
o u t.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W e
ta lk e d
to
yo u
p re v io u s ly
o u t
a t
th e
a p a rtm e n t,
a n d
m y
re c o l-
le c tio n
is
th a t
yo u
to ld
u s
th a t
som e
tim e
in
S e p te m b e r,
I
b e lie v e ,
th a t
a
s ta tio n
w a g o n
cam e
a n d
p ic k e d
u p
M rs.
O s w a ld .
M r.
R O ~E R B .
T h a t
w as
th e
tim e
h e
le ft
to w n .
M r.
L IE B E L E B .
T e ll
u s
a b o u t
th a t.
M r.
R O O E R S .
T h e
s ta tio n
w a g o n
w as
v is ib le .
I
c a lle d
m y
w ife .
I
s a id
\u201cW e ll,
h e
m ust
b e
le a v in g .\u201d
T h e y
w e re
p a c k in g
a ll
th e
th in g s .
P ro b a b ly
ie ft
th e
n e xt
n ig h t
o r
s o m e tim e
lik e
I
to ld
yo u ,
th e
fo llo w in g
n ig h t
a fte r.
H ad
th e
tw o
th in g s
in
h is
h a n d
a n d
g o g g le s
o n
lik e
h e
w as
ru n n in g
o u t
o f
th e re .
I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w
w h a t
h e
w as
d o in g .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
T e ll
u s
a b o u t
th o s e
g o g g le s .
W ere
th e y
s o m e th in g
lik e
s u n -
g la s s e s ?
D e s c rib e
th e m .
M r.
R O G IE R S .
I
d o n \u2019t
kn o w .
I c o u ld n \u2019t
s a y
th a t.
M r.
L IE B E L E B .
D id
yo u
s e e
w h a t
lic e n s e
p la te s
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n
h a d
o n
it?
M r.
R oom s.
N o,
M r.
L ie b e le r,
I
c o u ld n \u2019t
te ll
yo u
o n
th a t.
K in d
o f
a
g ra y
s ta tio n
w a g o n .
H e
w as
p tittin g
th e
p a c k in g ,
e v e ry th in g
in
th a t
h im s e lf.
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D o
yo u
kn o w
w h e n
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n
le ft?
M r.
R O G IE R S .
W e ll,
I
to ld
m y
w ife --s h e
s a id
s h e
m ig h t
h a ve
le ft
e a rly
in
th e
m o rn in g
b e fo re
w e
g o t
u p ,
w ith
th e
la d y .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y o u
th in k
th a t
s h e
m ig h t
h a ve
le ft
w ith
th e
la d y ?
M r.
R O O E R S .
Y e s .
T h e n
h e
le ft
th a t
n ig h t
o r
la te
a fte rn o o n .
W ent
o u t
in
a
h u rry .
L e ft
a ll
th e
lig h ts
o n .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
W ho
w as
in
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n ?
W as
th e re
a n o th e r
la d y ?
M r.
R O O E R S .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
yo u
s e e
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n
le a v e ?
M r.
R ~ ~ E R s.
W e
d id n \u2019t
s e e
it
le a v e ,
b u t
it
w a s n \u2019t
th e re
w h e n
h e
le ft.
T h e re
w as
n o b o d y
e ls e
e v id e n tly .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
yo u
s e e
O s w a ld
a t
a ll
a fte r
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n
le ft?
M r.
R ~ ~ E R s.
N o;
I
d id n \u2019t
s e e
h im
u n til
th a t
n ig h t.
H e
s lip p e d
o u t
o f
th e re .
H e
w as
g o in g
o u t
to
c a tc h
th e
b u s
a c ro s s
th e
s tre e t.
T h e
b u s
s to p
is
rig h t
a c ro s s
th e
s tre e t
fro m
u s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
Y o u
d id
s e e
O s w a ld
com e
o u t
o f
th e
a p a rtm e n t
in
th e
e v e n in g ?
M r.
R ~ C + E R S .
Y e s .
W e
w as
s ittin g
o n
th e
p o rc h
a t
th a t
tim e .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
S o
it
is
c le a r
to
yo u
th a t
O s w a ld
d id
n o t
le a v e
w ith
th e
la d ie s
in
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n ?
M r.
R O O E R S .
N o;
h e
d id n \u2019t
le a v e
w ith
th e m
in
th e
s ta tio n
w a g o n .
It
w as
th e
fo llo w in g
e v e n in g
h e
le ft
o n
th e
b u s
w ith
th e s e
tw o
h a n d b a g s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
T h a t
w as
in
th e
e v e n in g ?
M r.
R ~ c+ E R ~ .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
H e
ra n
a c ro s s
th e
s tre e t
a n d
g o t
o n
th e
b u s ?
M r.
R A T E R S .
T h a t\u2019s
rig h t.
M r.
L IE R E L E R .
D id
h e
g e t
o n
th e
b u s
a t
th e
b u s
s to p ?
M r.
R ~ IJ E R S .
B u s
s to p
o n
th e
c o rn e r
rig h t
o p p o s ite .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
T o w a rd
th e
c e n te r
o f
th e
c ity ?
M r.
R O W E R S .
Y e s .
M r.
L IE B E L E R .
D id
yo u
s e e
th e
b a g s
th a t
h e
h a d
in
h is
h a n d
w h e n
h e
w e n t
o u t?
M r.
R A T E R S .
M y
w ife
s e e n
som e
o f
th e m .
M r.
L IE B E L E R
(h a n d in g
p ic tu re s
to
w itn e s s ).
L e t
m e
s h o w
yo u
som e
p ic tu re s
a n d
s e e
if
th e s e
lo o k
lik e
it.
M r.
R O C JE R S
(in d ic a tin g ).
T h is
m id d le
o n e ,
I
kn o w
th a t
a in \u2019t
th e
ty p e
th e re .
T h a t\u2019s
n o t
th e
ty p e .
M r.
L IE B E L E X
(h a n d in g
p ic tu re
to
w itn e s s ).
I
s h o w
yo u
a
p ic tu re
o f
a
b a g
th a t
h a s
b e e n
m arked
a s
\u201cC o m m is s io n
E x h ib it
N o.
1 2 6 ,\u201d
a n d
a s k
yo u
if
th a t
lo o k s
lik e
th e
b a g .
4 6 2
of 00

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