"I would hope we’ll look back in history at the idea of discriminating with government money against protected categories as one of those mystifying artifacts of the past in the not-too-distant future." - Rabbi David Saperstein, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
The RAC joined almost 70 other activist and civil rights groups in calling on President Obama to refuse to expand "religious exemption" language in his anticipated executive order extending workplace non-discrimination protections to LGBT employees of federal contractors. Interfaith Alliance was among the signatories as well. A separate letter, signed by over 100 progressive faith leaders - co-authored by State of Belief host and Interfaith Alliance President Welton Gaddy - was sent to the White House to counter conservative leaders' call for an expanded set of "religious exemptions." ***Update: the White House has announced that President Obama will sign the executive order on Monday (July 21) with no additional "religious exemptions."***
Original Title
Exemptions and the Executive Order: David Saperstein State of Belief Interview, July 19, 2014
"I would hope we’ll look back in history at the idea of discriminating with government money against protected categories as one of those mystifying artifacts of the past in the not-too-distant future." - Rabbi David Saperstein, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
The RAC joined almost 70 other activist and civil rights groups in calling on President Obama to refuse to expand "religious exemption" language in his anticipated executive order extending workplace non-discrimination protections to LGBT employees of federal contractors. Interfaith Alliance was among the signatories as well. A separate letter, signed by over 100 progressive faith leaders - co-authored by State of Belief host and Interfaith Alliance President Welton Gaddy - was sent to the White House to counter conservative leaders' call for an expanded set of "religious exemptions." ***Update: the White House has announced that President Obama will sign the executive order on Monday (July 21) with no additional "religious exemptions."***
"I would hope we’ll look back in history at the idea of discriminating with government money against protected categories as one of those mystifying artifacts of the past in the not-too-distant future." - Rabbi David Saperstein, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
The RAC joined almost 70 other activist and civil rights groups in calling on President Obama to refuse to expand "religious exemption" language in his anticipated executive order extending workplace non-discrimination protections to LGBT employees of federal contractors. Interfaith Alliance was among the signatories as well. A separate letter, signed by over 100 progressive faith leaders - co-authored by State of Belief host and Interfaith Alliance President Welton Gaddy - was sent to the White House to counter conservative leaders' call for an expanded set of "religious exemptions." ***Update: the White House has announced that President Obama will sign the executive order on Monday (July 21) with no additional "religious exemptions."***
INTERFAITH ALLIANCE STATE OF BELIEF RADIO JULY 19, 2014
RUSH TRANSCRIPT: David Saperstein
Click here for video Click here for audio [KEVIN ECKSTROM, SUBSTITUTE HOST]: Due to the improbability of ENDAs passage by a Republican-controlled House exemption or no exemption the Obama administration recently announced a coming executive order, requiring ENDA-like protections for LGBT workers employed by federal contractors. Now, out of concern over the possibility of too-broad religious exemptions in that order, a number of rights groups have expressed concerns. A letter signed by prominent leaders, including Interfaith Alliance president Welton Gaddy, went to the White House earlier this month. And this week, 60 religious and civil rights groups signed onto a similar message to the President. Interfaith Alliance was among the signatories; and so was the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism. Joining me now is Rabbi David Saperstein. Hes the Director of the RAC, and a longtime board member of the Interfaith Alliance Foundation. David, welcome back to State of Belief! [RABBI DAVID SAPERSTEIN, GUEST]: Always a pleasure to be here. [KE]: So, Religious Action Center has joined many others, including Interfaith Alliance, in writing to the President regarding the religious 1 exemptions in the anticipated executive order on federal contractors. Tell me about your concerns. [DS]: This should be a matter of core principle, here in the United States, that tax dollars should not be used to discriminate. Theres something deeply troubling about the notion that someone pays their tax dollars to the government; the government then partners with a private organization a religious organization and then that religious organization would be able to discriminate against the very person whose money was paid into it. So this is a core principle for many of us; it was one that the President afrmed in his Zanesville speech while he was running for the presidency, and it would be our hope that there would be no religious exemption, as far as an executive order would be concerned, protecting protected classes including the LGBT community. I should point out that there is an existing exemption that has been on the books since President Bush, that does exempt religious organizations and allows them to discriminate on the basis of religion in who they hire with government money. And its not clear that the administration would reverse that; its probably more likely they would leave that intact in passing an executive order, but weve asked them to rescind that, as we asked the Bush administration before this administration, to rescind that executive order allowing discrimination. [KE]: And as I understand it, the Bush-era policy that youre talking about dealt with the faith-based ofce and faith-based groups that contract with the government. So is that really much diferent from the executive order on LGBT in federal contractors? [DS]: What would likely happen - no one knows, because no ones seen, publicly, the executive order - what would likely happen is they 2 would add LGBT to an existing executive order that actually was passed by President Roosevelt that bars discrimination on the basis of race, age, gender, national origin in federal contracting a range of protected classes would now add LGBT to that. Since the Bush executive order added to all of the protected categories the right to discriminate on the basis of religion only not against any of those targeted classes that very likely would stay in place. The administration has the choice to do as we have asked, to eliminate it and not allow any discrimination with government money; or the administration could listen to a number of prominent religious leaders who have written asking for a broader exemption an ENDA type exemption that would allow for discrimination against the LGBT community per se by religious groups. That would be unprecedented in terms of federal contracting. But all of that is in play, and it remains to be seen what the administration will do. [KE]: So Welton has talked on this show about the listening sessions that the White House has held with leading religious organizations in preparing this non-discrimination order. So how clearly do you think the administration has heard that message, that in todays climate, religious exemption language could end up being an invitation to discriminate? Are they hearing you, do you think? [DS]: Look, the hardest issues in public life are when two valid moral principles are in tension with each other. Thats the case here: with all of these debates Hobby Lobby, ENDA, the executive order the religious freedom and religious liberty of people, people able to follow their conscience in functioning as citizens. And against that, the obligation to prevent people from being discriminated against by characteristics that are core to their conscience or core to their identity. In general, we dont allow religious claims with government money against people because theyre women; because theyre men; 3 because theyre disabled. And now we hope LGBT will be added to that list. As I said, the Bush exemption does allow for discrimination in a federal contract for a Catholic agency to hire Catholics with government money; a Jewish agency to hire Jews; a Muslim agency to hire Muslims. Whether it goes beyond that, to what is called religious tenets that is, they can discriminate against people who do not follow the religious beliefs of the faith that would actually allow for discrimination for, lets say, against an unmarried woman who becomes pregnant and had sexual relations without being married for a religion that thought that was immoral, and someone wouldnt be in good standing. Or against the LGBT community if they thought that it would not be allowed. No one knows what the outer parameters of the existing exemption are, but what some are calling for is an outright exemption an ENDA type exemption and the diference between the Employment Non-discrimination Act that has been moving through Congress with a fairly broad exemption that did allow for discrimination against the LGBT community from religious institutions and this is private money is at stake in the ENDA exemption; this is government money here. And you shouldnt discriminate with government money. I would hope well look back in history at the idea of discriminating with government money against protected categories as one of those mystifying artifacts of the past in the not-too-distant future. [KE]: Now, and just to be clear, since were talking about the ENDA, the Employment Non-discrimination Act and there have been groups that have pulled their support for that where is your ofce on the bill as it currently sits? 4 [DS]: No ones pulled their support for ENDA. In other words, the Employment Non-discrimination Act says, there are 29 states in this country where an employer still can fre someone simply because that person is gay or lesbian, all right? And people feel, we now understand enough about the natural characteristics of the LGBT community that people ought not to be discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. And we want to bar that, like we do discrimination against blacks, against religious groups, against any other category of protected classes. The question is, how broad a religious exemption that will allow religious groups that believe homosexual activity is wrong or that not to hire people in this category? And here, theres a fairly broad exemption. And the reason there was a broad exemption broader than exists in Title VII, the Civil Rights Act itself, that allows for discrimination not on the basis of religion but of religious identity the reason this was brought up is many advocates in the LGBT rights community believed it was the only way to get it passed. That it would take the Catholic Church out from under it, it would take certain of the Evangelical groups - it was a bitter pill to swallow, in order to have millions of people covered. Now, with enough momentum in making gains in civil rights for the LGBT community, some of the very people who had supported a broad exemption now want to do away with the broad exemption and just leave the Title VII exemption in place that says you cant discriminate on the basis of religious identity. [KE]: So youre an attorney and a longtime activist here in DC. What are your greater concerns about where this current appetite for exemptions could ultimately take us whether theyre based on religion or anything else? 5 [DS]: Well, the real problem is the Hobby Lobby case. By giving religious exemptions to a broad category of employers millions of employers in this country and allowing them to make religious claims to discriminate on the basis of religion, this is deeply, deeply troubling. I mean, you can see that its not just, I have a religious objection to contraception; it could be to transfusions, to any kind of medical Christian Scientists; it could be a religious objection to working with women! It could be a religious exemption to working with Jews; a religious exemption to working with Catholics Theres no end to the claims that can be made. And the question is, whether or not the general rule that protects core constitutional rights that was undercut by the Supreme Courts decision in Oregon v. Smith on religious freedom, and restored by the Religious Freedom Restoration Act whether that will protect protected categories against discrimination in the face of religious objections of employers or not. Thats really the biggest problem today. RFRA has, in the main, worked to balance religious liberty against the rights of third parties, but where it comes to corporations, it really is a deeply, deeply alarming Pandoras box thats been opened here. [KE]: Right. So this is really, I think in many ways, just the beginning of this fght. [DS]: Were going to have litigation across the board. The phrasing of the case - the Hobby Lobby case and the decisions in that - is so ambiguous in terms of what the extent of the claims are: is it only closely-held corporations, or was that just named because it was the kind of corporation that was here? Is it only healthcare claims; is it any kind of claim that can be made? Were going to have thousands 6 and thousands of cases coming up through the courts, and people making religious claims. And you know we have been spared, in this country, the divisions along sectarian lines that have torn apart so many other countries, including many democracies, across the globe because of the separation of Church and State that doesnt have the government choosing amongst religions, and because of the robust religious liberty claims here that have been characterized as applying to religious groups and to non-proft organizations where people join around a particular cause. But usually, the court has held more like in US v. Lee, where you enter commerce, you have to give up certain rights that you would have otherwise to be part of the commercial landscape of America. This now abandons that idea, and opens it up to these kinds of religious divisions that threaten to exacerbate the culture wars and tear America apart. [KE]: So, last question for you: theres a lot of pressure on the other side, urging the administration to maximize these religious exemptions in any non-discrimination order to make the exemptions broader rather than smaller. Do you have any prediction as to who may eventually prevail? Youre a smart guy; you know that, right? [DS]: Its really hard to know. I think the administration understands, deeply, the nature of religious freedom claims. The President is a deeply religiously knowledgeable person; he understands the religious community. He has enormous support across a broad range in the religious community, but hes deeply committed to civil rights, and hes deeply committed to including the LGBT community within the categories of protected classes that cant be discriminated against without a compelling interest by the government to do it. 7 If I had to guess, I think that theyll probably leave the Bush exemption intact; they will not add or diminish anything, and simply add the LGBT community, recognizing that that protection will make it possible, again, for hundreds of thousands or millions of people who work for government contractors to be free of discrimination simply on the basis of who they are. So I expect there will be an executive order; I would be hard-pressed to see that they would change it one way or the other. But in balancing these out, who knows. And as long as this is the last question, let me just simply say what an honor it is, Kevin. Ive done this with Welton Gaddy many times; but you have been extraordinary in your leadership of the Religion News Service. That is a key tool for information and understanding by religious people and others all across America, and I thank you for your good work. [KE]: Well, thank you! This has been fun. Weve been talking with Rabbi David Saperstein. Hes the Director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism. This week, the RAC joined almost 60 other religious and human rights groups in signing on to a letter to the Obama administration, urging restraint in any religious exemption language in the coming executive order mandating protections for LGBT workers who are employed by federal contractors. David, thank you so much for making time to be with us once again on State of Belief Radio. [DS]: Take care. 8
Selected by Newsweek magazine in 2009 as the most infuential
rabbi in the country and described in a Washington Post profle as the "quintessential religious lobbyist on Capitol Hill," Rabbi David Saperstein represents the Reform Jewish Movement to Congress and the Administration as the Director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism (RAC). Under Rabbi Saperstein, writes J.J. Goldberg in his book Jewish Power, the Religious Action Center "has become one of the most powerful Jewish bodies in Washington, second only to AIPAC." In addition to its advocating on a broad range of social justice issues, the RAC provides extensive legislative and programmatic materials to synagogues nationwide and coordinates social action education programs that train nearly 3,000 Jewish adults, youth, rabbinic and lay leaders each year. During his over three-decade tenure at the helm of the RAC, Rabbi Saperstein has headed several national religious coalitions, including the Coalition to Protect Religious Liberty. He serves on the board of numerous national organizations including the NAACP, People For the American Way, National Religious Partnership on the Environment and the World Bank's "World Faith Development Dialogue." In 1999, Rabbi Saperstein was elected as the frst Chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, created by a unanimous vote of Congress, and in 2009, he was appointed by President Obama as a member of the frst White House Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. In 2004 and 2006, the Wall Street Journal and the Religion News Service respectively 9 described him as among the country's most infuential shapers of religious issues in national elections. Also an attorney, Rabbi Saperstein teaches seminars in First Amendment Church-State Law and in Jewish Law at Georgetown University Law School. A prolifc writer and speaker, Rabbi Saperstein has appeared on a number of television news and talk shows including Oprah, Nightline, Lehrer News Hour, ABC's Sunday Morning, Crossfre, the Rachel Maddow Show, Hardball - and the O'Reilly Factor. His articles have appeared in the Washington Post, the New York Times and the "Harvard Law Review." His latest book is Jewish Dimensions of Social Justice: Tough Moral Choices of Our Time. Rabbi Saperstein is married to Ellen Weiss, an award-winning journalist. They have two sons, Daniel and Ari. Rabbi Saperstein is part of a large rabbinic family. Two great uncles were Reform rabbis, and two great-grandfathers were Orthodox rabbis; his father Harold and uncle Sanford were well-known Reform rabbis; and his brother Marc is one of this generation's leading Jewish scholars.
Kevin Eckstrom is Editor-in-chief at Religion News Service. Kevin
joined the RNS staf in February, 2000 and became editor in 2006. Prior to coming to RNS, he worked as religion editor at the Stuart/Port St. Lucie News in Florida. He was the winner of the 2000 Cassels Award for small newspapers from the Religion Newswriters Association. Under his leadership, RNS was named Best Wire 10 Service by the Associated Church Press for both 2006 and 2007 the only time RNS has won back-to-back years. Eckstrom holds a M.S. from Columbia Universitys Graduate School of Journalism and a B.A. from The George Washington University. In 2007, he was elected president of the Religion Newswriters Association. His work was featured in Changing Boundaries: The Best Religion News Writing of 2003.
State of Belief is based on the proposition that religion has a positive
and healing role to play in the life of the nation. The show explains and explores that role by illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in America the most religiously diverse country in the world while exposing and critiquing both the political manipulation of religion for partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of government for sectarian purposes. Each week, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy ofers listeners critical analysis of the news of religion and politics, and seeks to provide listeners with an understanding and appreciation of religious liberty. Rev. Gaddy tackles politics with the frm belief that the best way to secure freedom for religion in America is to secure freedom from religion. State of Belief illustrates how the Religious Right is wrong wrong for America and bad for religion. Through interviews with celebrities and newsmakers and feld reports from around the country, State of Belief explores the intersection of religion with politics, culture, media, and activism, and promotes diverse religious voices in a religiously pluralistic world. 11
Author of more than 20 books, including First Freedom First: A
Citizens Guide to Protecting Religious Liberty and the Separation of Church and State, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy leads the national non-partisan grassroots and educational organization Interfaith Alliance and serves as Pastor for Preaching and Worship at Northminster (Baptist) Church in Monroe, Louisiana. In addition to being a prolifc writer, Dr. Gaddy hosts the weekly State of Belief radio program, where he explores the role of religion in the life of the nation by illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in America, while exposing and critiquing both the political manipulation of religion for partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of government for sectarian purposes. Dr. Gaddy provides regular commentary to the national media on issues relating to religion and politics. He has appeared on MSNBCs The Rachel Maddow Show and Hardball, NBCs Nightly News and Dateline, PBSs Religion and Ethics Newsweekly and The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, C-SPANs Washington Journal, ABCs World News, and CNNs American Morning. Former host of Morally Speaking on NBC afliate KTVE in Monroe, Louisiana, Dr. Gaddy is a regular contributor to mainstream and religious news outlets. While ministering to churches with a message of inclusion, Dr. Gaddy emerged as a leader among progressive and moderate Baptists. Among his many leadership roles, he is a past president of the Alliance of Baptists and has been a 20-year member of the Commission of Christian Ethics of the Baptist World Alliance. His past leadership roles include serving as a member of the General Council of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, President of Americans United 12 for Separation of Church and State, Chair of the Pastoral Leadership Commission of the Baptist World Alliance and member of the World Economic Forums Council of 100. Rev. Gaddy currently serves on the White House task force on the reform of the Ofce of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. Prior to the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), Dr. Gaddy served in many SBC leadership roles including as a member of the conventions Executive Committee from 1980-84 and Director of Christian Citizenship Development of the Christian Life Commission from 1973-77. Dr. Gaddy received his undergraduate degree from Union University in Jackson, Tennessee and his doctoral degree and divinity training from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. 13