Newsweek Dialogue Series "Climate and Energy Policy: Moving?"

NEWSWEEK DIALOGUE SERIES

CLIMATE AND ENERGY POLICY: MOVING?CO-PRESENTED BY

API

MODERATOR:

Howard Fineman, Newsweek

PANELISTS:

Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.)Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.)Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.)Jack Gerard, President and CEO, APIRana Foroohar, Newsweek

Tuesday, December 1, 2009

HOWARD FINEMAN: I think we're going to get started. Welcome to thewonderfully august Mansfield Room, that's Mike Mansfield up there with the pipe, and I think there are a lot of interesting discussions that go on behind closed doors in this room because if I'mnot mistaken, some of the Tuesday -- Sen. Dorgan -- don't the Tuesday Senate lunches take placein and around here? So, this is a place that is used to frank discussion, and we're going to try to dothat here today.My name is Howard Fineman, I'm senior Washington correspondent andcolumnist for NEWSWEEK, based here in the Washington bureau. You're to hear a panel that isco-hosted by NEWSWEEK Magazine and the American Petroleum Institute, and the purpose of itis to discuss environmental policy and legislation, and to do it with some of the mostknowledgeable and important people in town. I'm going to introduce them in reverse order frommy far right.The first one I want to mention because he's going to have to leave at 5o'clock, and we'll want to hear from him right off the top, after I introduce everybody, is Sen.Byron Dorgan of North Dakota. He's Chairman of the Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development, member of the Appropriations Committee, member of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and also he's the Chairman of the Democratic Policy Committee. Iknow there are a lot of Hill staffers here, a lot of people from downtown, people who know their way around Washington. You know that the policy committee is a very important organization.That's really where the rubber meets the road in terms of thinking about policy and trying to draftlegislation. So, Sen. Dorgan's here. Next to him is Jack Gerard, who's the President -- is that the correct title -- of API, and who I think has Hill roots. Right? You worked for Jim McClure and so forth, and is agraduate of both GW undergraduate and I think GW Law School, if I'm not mistaken. How manyyears have you been head at API?JACK GERARD: One.FINEMAN: One.MALE: [INAUDIBLE]FINEMAN: Okay, he's a veteran of one year. What's the normal length,tenure for presidents of API?MALE: Fifty.MALE: Hopefully more than one.

FINEMAN: Yeah, hopefully long for you, longer than Charlie Weiss of Notre Dame, or something like that.MALE: That's it.FINEMAN: And Eddie Markey is the missing chair. He assures me he'll behere at any minute. Ed was flying down from Boston. He said the weather was very clear. No problem. I won't hazard a guess as to which airline he was flying but if it's the one I think he wasflying, he may get here by six. And then Fred Upton, Congressman Fred Upton, a verydistinguished member who's the ranking member of the Subcommittee on Energy andEnvironment, and for those of you who aren't either Hill staffers or members of Congress or professionals in life in Washington, the ranking member is a very nice way of saying he's the guywhose job it is to deal with the chairman on behalf of the other party.Ranking has the sound of power about it, but it isn't always the case. At leastwhen your party is not in charge, which at this point, Fred's party is not. But I think he's knownon the Hill and known around town and known everywhere as a person of good will, and I think that's true of everybody here. Arguing is good. I wrote a whole book saying that arguing is theessence of who we are as a people. But if you don't accept the fundamental humanity of the people you're arguing with, you're not going to get anywhere, and I think the people who are uphere, all of them, and Congressman Markey when he shows up, are the kinds of people who are persons of goodwill. Who want to argue their positions, argue them forcefully, even emotionally, but who believe in the humanity of others.What we're going to do is talk for awhile about policy. I'm going to ask questions, and then toward the end, we're going to ask if you have any questions. We're going to pass out cards. If you have questions, write them down, send them up, and I will read them outloud, as many as we have time for.I'm going to start with Sen. Dorgan, since he does have to leave. Senator, myunderstanding is that even as the House passed a cap-and-trade bill, which seeks to use in waysthat I profess I don't completely understand the mechanics of the marketplace, to try to incentivizeenvironmental progress and control, you have doubts about using that mechanism, to oversimplify perhaps, you're for cap but not for trade. Explain why.HON. BYRON DORGAN: Well, Howard, first of all, thanks for doing this,and with Jack, and my colleagues from the House, Fred and Ed will be here, hopefully he's on theright airline. You're right, I have great difficulties, not with cap, but we're going to have a lower carbon future. I believe in capping carbon and doing it the right way; setting up targets and time