16
One foot in the door
DESPITE A BAD BACK AND FATIGUE FROM TWO WEEKS
OF CRISS-CROSSING THE NATION, PARTI KEADILAN
RAKYAT (PKR) DE-FACTO LEADER AND FORMER DEPUTY
PRIME MINISTER DATUK SERI ANWAR IBRAHIM IS
ALL SMILES, FOLLOWING THE ALTERNATIVE FRONT’S
UNPRECEDENTED PERFORMANCE IN THE RECENT
GENERAL ELECTION AND HIS IMPENDING RETURN TO
ACTIVE POLITICS. HE TELLS R. NADESWARAN AND
TERENCE FERNANDEZ OF THE CHALLENGES IN GOING
INTO THE POLLS AND THE EVEN BIGGER TESTS AHEAD.
Nades: One of your biggest
challenges was (prior to
the elections) getting a
cohesive team. You had
three different parties with
three different ideologies.
How did you manage to
unite and convince them on
having straight fights?
Anwar: What’s so different
about Umno, MCA and MIC?
Or PBB or PBS or PBDS. One
talks about ketuanan Melayu,
one talks about Chinese
survival, one wants Indian
affairs resolved. It does not
seem to be contentious as in
practice they were able to
show a cohesive stance.
Similarly within Keadilan,
PAS and DAP. Other than
what’s perceived from
outside … look at the manner
they conducted the election
campaign, they were together
and worked well. We have
Chinese voting for PAS, Malays
voting for DAP. The people
have spoken. They said:
“Look, we want a cohesive
Opposition, so today, so-called
contentious issues of the past,
like the Islamic State and
Hudud have been resolved. It’s
neither their (PAS’) manifesto
nor their agenda anymore.”
Nades: How did you
manage to get PAS to drop
the Islamic State agenda
which they had been so
vociferous on in previous
elections?
Anwar: I’ve convinced them
and they also know my
position ... if you want me to be
involved, this is my position.
Similarly with Keadilan and
DAP. They must be seen to be
multiracial and not questioning
the position of Bahasa or the
Malay position. You can adjust
but the paramount interest of
justice, catering to those who
are poor and marginalised,
covering all races must be
realised. I think what was
achieved last night (a meeting
between PKR, DAP and PAS)
is a very important beginning.
We sat down and discussed for
hours and looked at the issues
and it was agreed that we must
unite and make politically
expedient decisions.
Terence: It seems that
when you go into elections
it is easy to have a
common front. But like
what happened in Perak
shows that once you gain
power, it is a different story
altogether.
Anwar: What happened in
Perak is less problematic
(than those) in Perlis and
Terengganu (laughs). Because
the media is controlled by
them; that is why the focus is
on Perak and Selangor.
But I don’t deny that there
are problems. Even within
Keadilan, we have contending
candidates, the DAP and PAS
also have issues. But in the
case of Perak, I understand
the problem. PAS had the least
number of seats so naturally,
for DAP to take a tougher
stance is quite understandable.
(But) Why does the media
play up this huge issue? We
took a position that was quite
tough too – we support the MB;
we support the administration
but we refused to participate in
the administration unless the
spirit of cooperation is there.
I have enough problems
in Penang with having eight
non-Malays and two Malays.
To have a similar arrangement
in Perak would not be wise. It
does not mean the Opposition
is cracking up and to be fair to
DAP, they made adjustments.
And I have to record my
appreciation.
That’s in the past, now
contrary to popular perception
that the collaboration is merely
prior to elections or prior to
forming a government ... as
of last night (March 18), we
have now entered into this
new arrangement. It will be a
much more cohesive force as it
will not be like the BN or PAS
or DAP… here is the agenda,
about constitutional
guarantees, what about
the Malaysian Economic
Agenda, basic tolerance
and the perceived
dominance of one
race against the
others.
Terence: You
needed this
new resolution
because you
were ill-prepared
for the aftermath
of the elections
where Barisan
Rakyat took five
states and Kuala
Lumpur? You
never expected
the results.
Anwar: I was
very confident that
we will take over the whole
government. We crossed the
one-third mark a long time
ago.
Nades: Reading your
comments in a Singapore
interview, we said maybe
Anwar is overconfident?
Anwar is sounding cocky
that he can form the
government.
Anwar: The interview in
Singapore was given after they
cancelled the indelible ink
and the reason they cancelled
the ink was because we were
edging towards that (winning
the election). We had passed
48% of the popular vote.
Edging about 2% a day of the
shift; and they knew that.
That’s why they cancelled the
indelible ink. Which means
they had 3-4% votes to cheat.
So imagine if they had used the
ink? And the postal votes? We
would have won easily.
Nades: Should the postal
votes be abolished as
we are not at war or in
emergency. It was (mostly)
meant for our servicemen
in the jungles during the
Emergency and the war
against the communists.
Anwar: No. Postal voting can
be conducted in a transparent
and fair manner. These people
… they virtually have robbed
the people of their
votes.
theSun
Like in Setiawangsa (which
was won by Datuk Seri
Zulhasnan Rafique) … we
won. Then came 14,000 postal
votes.
Terence: We cannot prove
this but is there any truth
that in Lembah Pantai,
where your daughter Nurul
Izzah was contesting (and
won against Datuk Seri
Shahrizat Abdul Jalil), there
were similar attempts?
Anwar: Yes. But there was not
enough to go around. In Teluk
Kemang 7,000 postal votes
were brought in, still our guys
managed to win.
Which means the number
supporting us is big. That’s
why I said, we will win if
we get 55%. Even during the
campaign I said you want to
win with 50%, forget it!
Nades: How are you going
to put your economic plan
into action while dealing
with the sensitive topic of
the NEP?
Anwar: I drafted the MEA
(Malaysian Economic Agenda)
a year ago and gave a detailed
explanation to civil servants
about what we have planned
for the poor and marginalised
Malays, Chinese and Indians.
We should start with regaining
our competitiveness which we
have lost, and attract more
We have foreign direct investment. We
Chinese have to build the economy
voting for PAS, upwards. With that in mind,
Malays voting then we can talk about
distributive justice and equity.
for DAP. The
people have Terence: It seems that
spoken. They only Umno is opposing
said look, we the MEA while the other
want a cohe- BN component parties are
keeping mum.
sive Opposi- You see, even in Umno there
tion, so today, is disconnect between the
so-called thinking of the leaders and the
contentious grassroots.
I will be meeting division
issues of the
past, like the
Islamic State
and Hudud
have been
resolved.”
| THURSDAY MARCH 27 2008
leaders to explain this. I
was portrayed negatively by
Utusan Malaysia. They were
demonising us, saying that we
are traitors to the Malays.
That’s interesting. “I am a
traitor to the Malays”. I have
not taken one share, no taxi
permit, no contract in the
name of bumiputra and all
those so-called champions of
Malays have taken hundreds of
taxi permits, APs and contracts
by the hundreds of millions of
ringgit.
So I said don’t enter into this
(argument) otherwise I will
smash them hard. Don’t use
the racial card. If you say you
are concerned about the NEP,
it’s okay we can argue, we
can discuss this but don’t start
condemning us. I’ve appealed
to them to stop this.
Reviewing the NEP is not
just (DAP secretary-general
and Penang Chief Minister)
Lim Guan Eng’s view; of
course in my mind we should
craft the words properly.
Coming from a Chinese
they would immediately play
the racial card.
It is unfair to Guan Eng,
although I would have advised
him not to touch on the NEP,
but it was unfair to him
because his words were taken
out of context. He did say it was
for the poor of all races.
Nades: Closer to Selangor,
what changes can we expect
from the new government?
Anwar: Firstly, it’s governance.
There was so much of wastage,
corruption, leakages and
alienation of land. According to
the reports I have, hundreds of
millions of ringgit are literally
down the drain.
But we have to be careful.
We cannot create the
impression that we are going
to dismantle everything,
because we will lose investor
confidence. People want
theSun | THURSDAY MARCH 27 2008
stability and continuity.
The only major issue we
accept is the mentri besar’s
recommendation to review
the water agreement. The
water agreement is virtually
scandalous! And it is a burden
to consumers.
Nades: What about land
alienation to cronies? You
cannot take the land back
because the deal is done.
Anwar: There are many ways
to deal with this. If the land is
given, we can go through the
plans; we want to know why
this is done in such a way.
Terence: But you are not
going on a witch hunt, are
you?
Anwar: I think it will be
a problem for us, because
it is endless. Then we will
spend the next two years just
doing this instead of running
the states that we won.
Immediately our plans are to
move on by ensuring a vibrant
economy. Drawing foreign
investment, but problems
affecting the poor are top on
our list.
Yesterday we went to
Kampung Jawa (in Klang)
to visit the Malay and Indian
squatters. A contention was the
demolished temple. So I told
(Mentri Besar Tan Sri Abdul)
Khalid (Ibrahim), you better
deal with this immediately.
In two weeks get it done;
give them their land and pay
compensation to rebuild their
temple. Of course they will
demand for this and that.
That’s normal, but we draw
the line.
Then it’s their housing
status. Khalid was concerned
with Ijok where some areas
have no water supply. It cost
just RM200,000 to supply
the water, so Khalid has
announced that water will be
supplied. These things must
happen whether it’s a Malay
area, Chinese area or Indian
area, it must happen. There are
huge problems in Selangor and
he (former Mentri Besar Datuk
Seri Dr Mohamad Khir Toyo)
has the audacity to talk about
governance!
Nades: What are your
plans after April 13 when
you are eligible to contest
for political office? Your
wife is Opposition Leader
- a position which is being
warmed for you.
Anwar: Yes, but it is still early. discussing some election laws
Parliament only convenes
in May. We still have time.
I have to travel overseas for
some engagements and I have
to resign from my
positions (in several
foreign think tanks and
academic boards) …
meetings and lectures
in Harvard and at
Kennedy School … ground rules we will be alright. No way
we’ll see. But now the are
focus is on having a land to your son, daughter, son-in-law.
cohesive Opposition No way!”
and make sure the state
governments are on
track.
Terence: Are you ready to
take over?
Anwar: This is for the MPs
and the people to decide. We
just want to make sure that
the states are running well,
and that we are prepared for
Parliament. We have time to
come to that.
Terence: If you asked me
two weeks ago, one would
dismiss Anwar Ibrahim
being prime minister.
But today, there is such
likelihood, with the dawn of
the two-party system.
Anwar: Yes, well, like I said,
we actually won the election.
Terence: While Anwar can
become PM, there seems to
be a dearth of individuals
who would be able to
govern and this brings me
to the formation of the
shadow cabinet.
Anwar: Yes, when all these
fellows took over … (former
Prime Minister Tun Dr
Mahathir (Mohamad) …
they had no administrative
experience. Myself too … so
was the first generation of civil
servants. As long as we have a
clear programme and agenda,
and more importantly here
and now, clearer ground rules
we will be all right. No way are
we going to tolerate alienation
of land to your son, daughter,
son-in-law. No way! I think we
have to work as a team.
As far as qualified people
are concerned, you look at
(DAP stalwart Lim) Kit Siang,
he is still there. We were
last night and he brought
up some laws which I don’t
remember. (laughs) He says,
“Anwar you were finance
As long as we have a clear pro-
gramme and agenda, and more
importantly here and now, clearer governments under
we going to tolerate alienation of
minister, how can you not
know this?”
I said: “Yalah Kit, I don’t
remember.” Then he reminds
me.
I think he is certainly
qualified to serve. You have
(PAS president) Hadi (Awang)
who has four years experience
of being mentri besar of
Terengganu … and many
others.
Nades: Come to think of
it, you have some experts
on your side like Charles
17
to put you on Page One? back the IGP and tell him, I
Also associates who once cannot be a Penang leader if I
had no time for you, but can’t settle this problem.”
now are queuing up to see Nobody wanted to go! Koh
you? Tsu Koon, Shariff Omar, all the
Anwar: (Laughs) I have no excos semua tak nak pergi! So
malice. You know, sometimes I went.
I laugh at these people. This is You know the problem? I
the quality of people and they told the mosque people, azan
think they are great. five times a day is ok but there
I have no personal agenda. were some announcements,
I don’t deny They have. Some of them are touching on Melayu and Islam,
that there are scared. Dead scared! They some hints ... so I told them:
problems. came to see me saying we “Lima kali. Lebih daripada
are sorry, but were forced to itu, I have a problem. I kena
Even within do this and do that. In a way rampas you punya mike.”
Keadilan, it is good - not that it is fair (Five times. Anything more,
we have for them to put me in prison I will have to seize your
contending and treat me that way … but microphone.)
it is a good experience. And So they said: “Jangan
candidates, if people make mistakes and Datuk.” So I said: “You know
the DAP and are remorseful, we should I’m with you, don’t overdo it.”
PAS also have give them a chance. I always I also told Koh Tsu Koon
issues. But believe that. to give them the land for the
in the case (relocation of the) temple.
Nades: But what was your So, I told the (Muslim)
of Perak, I problem with (former PKR people, you pukul budak Hindu
understand vice president) Chandra umur 12 tahun, (hit a 12-year-
the problem. Muzaffar? He came out very old Hindu boy) is not right. So
PAS had the scathing against you. they settled and shook hands.
Anwar: I was in prison when Done.
least number he first decided to attack and I only brought my
of seats so smash me to pieces prior to plainclothes guards. Even the
naturally, for the 2004 elections. He had police were not allowed in the
DAP to take problems within the party, temple because people were
a tougher initially with the Youth Wing already angry as they tear-
… Ezam, later (former PKR gased the neighbourhood.
stance is quite vice-president) Marina Yusof. I said the same thing to the
understand- I was still backing him but he temple committee: “I know
able.” came out very strong against your prayer times.” I was
me. I still wonder why. studying in Malay College
Santiago on water and R. Kuala Kangsar where there
Sivarasa on human rights. Terence: After Chandra was was a temple next door. You
Anwar:There you are! Some released from the ISA, he don’t have to look at your
of them of course are not as seemed to be more pro- watch. Teng! Teng! Teng!
well-known as I am but Siva establishment. Teng! 6am. Teng! Teng! Teng!
is a Rhodes scholar … very Anwar: Well, he went through Teng! 6pm.
articulate. Syed Husin Ali is a lot. I can’t deny So I told
one of the more renowned that and I do them don’t
scholars. appreciate his That’s inter- provoke
initial contributions esting. ‘I am a because during
Nades: How did you to Keadilan. I did traitor to the the Muslim
manage 13 days of not want to pursue prayer times
litigation (over his
Malays’. I have not they were
campaigning with a bad
back? statements against taken one share, ringing the
It was not easy. We were using Anwar during the no taxi permit, no bells even
my Dad’s car a Mercedes since election), but my contract in the name louder.
it was bigger. I had to duduk lawyers advised me of bumiputra and So I told
bersila like in yoga. (laughs) (to proceed) and the them that
Also, we had (PKR deputy letter (of demand) all those so-called I warned
president) Dr. Syed Husin was already sent. champions of the mosque
Ali. He didn’t want to stand in Malays have taken committee that
this election, but he was here Terence: Do you hundreds of taxi I will seize the
manning the fort, while I was want to retort microphone.
against Chandra’s
permits, APs and So, to the
travelling all over the country.
I was wondering who would allegations about contracts by the temple
be doing this as (former PKR the words you hundreds of millions committee, I
Youth chief) Ezam (Mohd uttered when of ringgit.” said if you do
Noor) is gone, Nik Nazmi (Nik you visited the the same thing,
Ahmad who won the Seri Hindu temple I will also
Setia state seat in Selangor ) in Penang? rampas your
is gone; (Sim) Tze Tzin (who (Background: In March bells.
won the Pantai Jerejak state 27, 1998, a group of And what did Chandra say?
seat in Penang) is gone … then Muslims marched from the That I threatened to silence all
I realised I was handicapped. Kampung Rawa mosque bells in Hindu temples across
My staff was making all the to the nearby Sri Raja Raja the nation?! It’s not true. Of
arrangements. Madurai Veeran temple, course I had to sound very
angered by the loud ringing tough also. How do you solve
Terence: Do you of the temple’s prayer bells. the problem when they are
think the media The resulting clash between fighting like that?
has been fair with 500 Muslims and Hindus It is totally wrong what they
the new state resulted in several people are trying to portray me as. I
being injured. The dispute am very indebted to the Indian
Barisan Rakyat? was settled when the state community. They have helped
Anwar: They have government provided an me a lot. You see the Bukit
not been fair to them. alternative site for the Selambau fellow (Independent
What with these temple.) candidate V. Arumugan)? He
loaded questions and Anwar: These accusations are said he will join PKR if I come
their own agenda. excessive. Did he ask me what there and hold his hand. So I
Give them a chance happened at the mosque? I was did. And he won, and now he
to do something like DPM at that time and nobody has joined Keadilan!
how I suggested to Guan Eng wanted to go down there. I
that he should go to the Malay went to the mosque and then Terence: What is your take
villages, no one highlighted the temple. on the new cabinet? Some
it when he went to Tanjung (Then) IGP (Inspector say that it is very Umno-
Tokong. General of Police Tan Sri) centric.
That’s why I was very Rahim Noor called up the Anwar: Ya! First I can see that
rough with the Utusan guy. It’s Penang CPO (chief police there are attempts to respond
not their fault though, I know officer) and told him: “Tell to the electorate but overall it
that when they start pushing, Anwar not to go down to the is a disappointing line-up. It is
they have their instructions but mosque as the police cannot not catered for the expectations
repercussions can be great. guarantee his safety.” of people. There seem to be
(Incidentally it was Rahim some shift in policies but then
Terence: Can we touch a Noor who gave Anwar his some characters tainted with
little on some of the media black eye that inspired the PKR corruption continue to be in
organisations that used to symbol). office… well, these are exciting
blacklist you but now want I told the CPO: “You call times!