Eben40

Sad that this sort of book is necessary even on an otherwise mundane and mostly harmless website, because rabid fanatics obsessed by their malevolent hatreds have published all sorts of antisemitic book excerpts, several pushing Holocaust denial, on even this site. So decency requires the publication along with them of Lipstadt's book at the least. Thanks to "xtremepunker" for doing a good deed in a too dark world. The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history. Nazi government documents, photo albums of SS troops, short movies by Nazis themselves, accounts by non-Jewish witnesses by the tens of thousands throughout Nazi-occupied Europe in diaries, memoirs, post-war testimonies, and other media, mass graves, train administration records, confessions by concentration camp guards and commanders taken down by video cameras as they spoke (e.g., in Claude Lanzman's 6-hour film Shoah, and in the confessions of the commanders of Sobirbor, Auschwitz and elsewhere, and the agreement in detail with all the above of Jewish survivors's oral and written accounts by the hundreds of thousands both right after the war and up to the present, along with the manifest reduction of global Jewish numbers from at least 17 million before WWII to about 11 million after the war - and Jews have still not recovered their numbers, since there are only about 13 million of them now if one adds up their figures in national censuses around the world. There are just too many evidences, not just of death camps and gas chambers, but of systematic murder and burial of entire towns and cities of Jews by Einsatzgruppen Nazi troops in eastern Europe during the war, machine-gunning them directly into huge pits. And then there was the deliberate starving of entire ghettos, to weaken their numbers by famine and disease, prior to dispatching the remaining Jews to concentration camps or murdering them en masse right there. All of this is massively documented. To doubt this produces a "historical method" that could disprove that France really exists, because it was a German hoax all along: you just cannot trust French people who claim otherwise, and have written whole libraries to prove France's existence, because all French people (according to this utterly fantastical and malicious theory) are incredibly industrious liars, QED. Or maybe it is Germany itself that is a hoax because all Germans are part of a sinister conspiracy, and anyone who says otherwise must be in their pay or secretly German themselves (etc., etc., etc.). You can't prove it isn't, using Holocaust denial methods.

xtremepunker

The official figure for Auschwitz hasn't been reduced. It's been 1,1-1,5 million in the history books for 50 years. The soviet government exaggerated the number of russians that were killed in Auschwitz. They had been told by historians that this figure of 4 million dead was wrong but they refused to acknowledge this until the Soviet Union fell. The history books have always been correct about this. There are tons of evidence of the nazi genocide and the information isn't unreliable at all. What's completely unreliable is Holocaust denial since deniers have been caught lying too many times. Your antisemitic statement that there's a "jewish propensity for lying" shows where this denial really comes from.

logang

There was a German holocaust that began with Dresden and continued after the war, notably with the murder of between one and two million German POWs by exposure. The information about the camps is very unreliable and needs serious re-examination. (The official figure for Auschwitz has been reduced from 4 million to 1 million.) The real Jewish holocaust was by shooting in the Soviet Union and the Baltic states - there is plenty of reliable documentary evidence and the figure is probably in excess of one million. Comparable evidence does not exist for the camps and there are many anomalies. The Jewish propensity for lying (Kol Nidre aka the Liars' prayer) is another problem, as is Jewish shamelessness (chutzpah). Honest Jews have also pointed out that the Shoah is a massive money spinner, though the money is often pilfered (Kol Nidre and chutzpah again).

hurazor

parbon18218: you ask "Where is the proof?" It is there: survivors, witnesses told it million a time before. Language, words, speech taken as proof. Even at court. That is how our lives are structured, done and remembered. If you can't accept this practice of thousands of years now, see a doctor. ;-)

xtremepunker

I told you where to find the documents you say you seek. If you don't want to be exposed to something that conflicts with your mindless drivel then quit demanding historical evidence. You don't want truth, you just comforting lies to justify your antisemitism like every denier.

xtremepunker

No, you are anti-semitic for saying that Hitler's hatred for the jews is logical and rational and that the jews control all media and politics. That's the working definition of anti-semitism for the European Union. Again, I won't do your research for you. Read a proper history book. Extensive research has already been done and historical truth has already been established. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your crazy ideology... wait, I'm not!

parbon18218

Google isn't a fact finder, and a library can be biased by removing all books with differing views. In trying to portray us as insane and irrational you're going to slip up sooner or later. Truth can not be silenced, only delayed.

parbon18218

Ok I'll make it simple for you, if I disagree with your version of events in exactly the way described I am anti-semitic? If nazi documents exist proving the existence of gas chambers I've yet to find them. My point is upon finding proof I WILL BE SATISFIED. I'm not out to get or hurt anyone, the truth is at stake.

xtremepunker

The bombing of Dresden was not an act of genocide; it was not an attempt to exterminate the German people and this is quite obvious. The number of casualties was not bigger than the bombing of London by the nazis and even the denier David Irving agrees. The short-lived boycott of German goods by a few business owners because of nazi hatred towards jews is not an act of genocide either. Or would you call islamic boycott of Danish goods genocide? What's more, the nazis immediately retaliated with a boycott of jewish goods and jewish organizations soon agreed to end it in exchange for jewish lives. Forensic testing of the gas chambers done by the Institute for Forensic Research in Cracow indicated the presence of cyanide in greater quantities than the buildings which were fumigated a few times with Zyklon B. This shows the impossibility of the denier claim that the gas chambers were just morgues which were occasionally fumigated. I'm convinced they were gas chambers because of the nazi documents describing them as gas chambers and the testimony of both prisoners and SS personnel. There's no bias or conspiracy, history is the work of thousands of historians who have ideological differences and they have reached a consensus. As in science, the burden of proof lies on those who defy the accepted consensus. There's heaps of evidence backing this historical consensus and your unawareness of it is irrelevant. The burden of proof is on those who make outrageous claims which deny common knowledge. You have NOT done your research properly. I have reviewed the documents in question many times. I won't do your research for you. Google it or visit your local library. And please spare me the usual "inquisitive mind" strategy of deniers. Your comments on other documents show your anti-semitism as the real motive behind your assertions.

parbon18218

I've done my research, and unfortunately most history relating to war is biased towards the victors until independent parties pull apart all the evidence without a pre-emptive view of what is true and what isn't. You look at a chamber with staining from zyklon b and you see this as proof of a gas chamber because you were already convinced a gas chamber was there. Get it? This backwards logic will not hold up to reason, and I'm afraid the holes in the story will not vanish. I'm not denying anything, just asking.

parbon18218

*researched

parbon18218

There WAS genocide against the Germans, you obviously haven't research Dresden very well. Have you looked into the worldwide boycott of German goods? Have you looked at the alleged proof or you just accept it is proved because for 60 years we've been told the same bullshit. In fact forensic testing of the gas chambers points towards zyklon B being used for delousing. Does the holocaust theory have any evidence? Does the theory AGAINST the holocaust have more evidence? I DO NOT have to prove it didn't happen, you have to prove it did, its simple.

xtremepunker

As I said, evidence of the Holocaust is readily available at any library or even online. Not just the testimony of both the victims and perpetrators, but also the nazi documents (that even deniers accept as factual), photographs, forensic testing of the gas chambers (from reputable institutions, not ignorant deniers who don't know how to take samples) and recent excavations in the former camps which appeared in many newspapers. The bombing of Germany was a war crime, just as Germany's bombing of Britain and Guernica were war crimes. But that's where the comparison and moral relativism end. The Holocaust was an act of genocide and therefore a crime against humanity. There was no genocide against the Germans.

xtremepunker

No, Holcaust denial is absolutely divorced from science and reality. The scientific process involves conjecturing rational explanations and then contrasting them with the available evidence for corroboration. Only then a conclusion is reached as to whether the theory withstands the evidence or it's false. Holocaust deniers first reach a conclusion for ideological reasons and then manipulate and distort the historical evidence to fit that conclusion. Whatever evidence doesn't fit is discarded, labeled as a hoax and a great conspiracy involving millions of people. They have been exposed as pathological liars and some of these easily refuted lies are detailed in this book.

parbon18218

Science is based on refuting previously conceived notions of what is true. Have a good look at scientific theory and have a look at revisionism and you'll see the two are interdependent, in fact without revising our history in light of propoganda and political considerations we may as well just believe everything we're told. I'm sick of being told of this huge body of evidence when all I see is hearsay. The sad truth is even if every single thing reported about the german atrocities is true, the allied bombing of germany was worse in scale and depravity, yet no one hears about this! 60 years of wartime propoganda is giving you the delusion that you have facts when all you have is hearsay.