Did The Mossad Commit The Terrorist Acts Against The US On 9/11? (A Debate)

Did the Mossad commit the terrorist acts against the US on 9/11?
{Thoughtcriminal Wrote}
I hold that the Mossad did not commit the terrorist acts against the USA on
9/11.
I personally feel that they had been tracking the actual terrorists, and had
some knowledge (the depth of which we certainly don't know today) that a
strike was in the works.
Ansar holds the opinion that the Mossad committed the terrorist acts on 9/11
against the US out of "cui bono".
"I object, your honor! This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a
sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham." (Fielding
Mellish)
Re: Did the Mossad commit the terrorist acts against the US on 9/11?
Flag to: ansar
Lay out your evidence.
"I object, your honor! This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of
a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham." (Fielding
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Page 1 of 226
My aim in this cage match is to show the undeniable mountain of evidence
pointing to Israeli involvement with 9/11. This evidence, if was pointed to at
any other country in the world, would make Americans demand en-mass a
full investigation of the facts surrounding 9/11 and immediate cooling of
relations between that country and the U.S. In fact there is already such a
petition signed by now over a hundred thousand people demanding this
investigation. From the evidences I am aware of, I firmly believe that the
Israelis and crooked elements in our government engineered 9/11 to create a
Pearl harbor type of event that would benefit the American Israeli dupes and
their Jewish masters.
The other point that is very personal to me is that thousands of Muslims have
been killed, harassed and tortured. The U.S. is about to attack Iraq another
Muslim country under false pretense somehow linking 9/11 to Iraq.
Thousands of more innocent Muslims will die. I think a thorough exposure
of this frame-up of Muslims by the media and our Zionist Occupied
Government is necessary if not only to make the suffering and deaths of
thousands of innocent Muslims not be in vain.
Fraud and deception has been the way of the Jahcubites (Satanic Jews) for
thousands of years. I use the term Jahcubites instead of Jews because I don’t
think it is fair to lump all Jews under this umbrella of being evil. There are
too many good Jews who don’t fit in that category and too many of them
who lost their lives fighting against the diabolical scheme of the Jahcubites.
The use of media as a way of swaying public opinion in defiance of truth is

an old tactic. It was even done in the time of Christ (pbuh). The Sadducees
and the Pharisees were able to convince the Romans and their own people
that Christ (pbuh) committed treason and that he should be crucified. They
even were successful in getting the people to make choosing to spare the life
of Barabbas, a common criminal, more valuable than sparing the life of the
noble Christ (pbuh). With incidents like the Lavon Affair, the USS Liberty
attempted sinking, the Mexican bombing attempt and others, the deceptive
tactic of the Israelis -- committing actions and having others take the blame --
has been exposed. I contend that 9/11 is one of those actions. They were
caught in the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty attack, etc. but with 9/11 there are
countless instances of evidences pointing to them. The track record of the
Israelis in conducting terrorist activities and causing others to take the blame
Page 2 of 226
as well as using the American media to shield their dirty deeds should not be
ignored.
"Strive as in a race to achieve the

goal of excellence in all that you do.”
http://www.ascertainthetruth.com
{Ansar Wrote}
Thoughtcriminal I am going to make a list of events associating the Israelis

with 9/11. Which one of these would you say is false:
1. Israelis were caught celebrating and photographing each other while the
WTC was burning and going down in a rubble.
2. The men belonged to an Israeli company named Urban Moving Systems.
3. The owner of the company Dominik Suter immediately fled to Israel
4. After refusing lie detector tests for several weeks when taken each of the
Israelis failed the lie detector tests.
5. Under suspicious circumstances the Israelis were deported to Israel
6. There were thousands of Israelis working in the WTC in high tech and
high level jobs and executive positions primarily in international finance,
banking and stock trading. There were several Israeli firms at the WTC.
7. The Foreign Ministry of Israel received the names of 4000 Israelis believed
to be working in the WTC area.
8. Two employees of the Israeli company Odigo had prior warnings of the
WTC attack 2 hours before it happened.
9. Initially President Bush reported that 130 Israelis got killed at the WTC but
after final analysis it was found out that it was only one. Whereas other
nations that had less employees working at the WTC had greater number of
deaths.
10. There was a huge Israeli spy ring working in the U.S. and the authorities
arrested many of them. The authorities in the DEA are on record stating that
they believe this spy ring (art students) had something to do with 9/11.
11. In the van belonging to Urban moving maps were found that the FBI says
showed the Israelis had a definite involvement with 9/11.
Page 3 of 226
12. Israelis were caught on October 10, 2001 with explosives on them at the
Mexican congress.
13. General Gul, who was the director General of the Pakistani Intelligence
Services and a close ally of America, said the following: "Mossad and its
American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits from the crime?
The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. and four flights are
diverted from their assigned air space and no air traffic controller sounds the
alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m. That also smacks of a
small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against the Pentagon perhaps? Radars
are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend or foe identification --
challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF, jets are instantly
scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no further questions asked. This
was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed to the shelter of a
nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation. Who could that have
been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation, like the Warren report
after the Kennedy assassination?
I will stop here but have some more. I await your response.

Keep going.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Page 4 of 226
14. Many newspapers in the U.S. and Canada reported incidents of people
having foreknowledge of 9/11. One such incident is an American spy by the
name of Vreeland who was imprisoned in Canada.
15. The Washington Times ran a story on September 10, 2001 about a 68-page
study issued by the U.S. Army School for Advanced Military Studies
(SAMS). The study, issued by the elite Army officer’s school, detailed the
dangers of a possible U.S. Army occupational force in the Mideast. Here is
the article's comment about the study's view of the Israeli Mossad:
Of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, the SAMS officers say:
"Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces and
make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act."
16. Thousands of people made huge profits on American Airline and United
as a result of put stocks. Many of them were Israelis.
17. It is true that in the last authentic interview with Carol Valentine OBL
denied having anything to do with 9/11?
I will stop at this point and would like for you to respond to any of the above
as being true or false.

{Ansar Wrote}
For what you agree with or disagree with you can just refer to them by
numbers.

Page 5 of 226
Keep going.
What about the planes?
Who flew the planes?
Who did they work for?
Why would they commit suicide if it was for the Israelis and not for Allah?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Don't deflect my questions above. I want you to answer true or false to any of
what I listed. I have stopped at this point with listing but will not list more
until I get an answer as to whether you believe what I listed above is true or
false.

I'm asking you to present your case in its totality.
Page 6 of 226
If I start countering now, the debate will get muddled.
Please present your entire case as if we were in a court of law.
It's quite simple, you're trying to prove something, and I'm trying to defend
those accused.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Thoughtcriminal...don't make this more difficult than it is. Let me give you
an example of how I would like you to respond. You can do the following:
1. true
2. false
Got it???? I need to establish a ground base between us of what we both

accept to be common knowledge. I will proceed from there.

Page 7 of 226
No, that's not how it is done.
You are to present your case in its entirety, and then I present my defense in
its entirety.
If we start going point by point, the debate won't end because we'll be stuck
debating each point and not the issue as a whole.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
OK...for the sake of continuing, that's my entire case answer it.

That's not your entire case since you haven't discussed the planes, the
hijackers (if there actually were any), who the terrorists were, etc.
Please proceed.
Mellish)
Page 8 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Why don't you discuss those things for me since you know my case better
than I do? Other than past Israeli actions I rest my case on what I presented
above and would dearly love to get your response.

Who hijacked the planes?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
TC no fair! I asked you questions first. Please answer.

{Thoughtcriminal Wrote} Page 9 of 226
No, it is fair.
You have to present your whole case since you've made the assertion.
Without detailing what actually occurred, your argument is incomplete.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
What are you afraid of?

I'm afraid that you'll never post your entire argument.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Page 10 of 226
The dictionary definition of evidence is 1.) an outward sign: indication, 2.)
something that furnishes proof, 3) testimony.
I feel that the above that I presented serves as evidences to show the Israeli
involvement with 9/11. Along with their proven track record in events where
they try to blame others for their actions and got caught I believe the Israelis
are guilty as charged. It was not Russians, Chinese, Indians nor French men
who were involved with any of the above incidents. It was Israelis and why?
Maybe as a rebuttal you could tell me why all these events listed just so
happens to involve Israelis and not people from other nations.

You haven't addressed all the events of the day.
If they were Mossad agents, why would they knowingly commit suicide?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Page 11 of 226
TC don't put words in my mouth. I listed evidences showing a connection to
the Mossad with 9/11. Just deal with those for now please. Are they true or
false?

Who were the men?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Now you are playing a game with me by avoiding the issue. Remember there
are many reading this. Please don't embarrass yourself.

Page 12 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
TC I am building much of my case using what I presented above as a

foundation. Don't you think that if you destroy my foundation I will have
nothing to stand on? Just a little tip that may help you with this debate. Not
that I want you to win though.

The one embarrassing himself is you, since you haven't even made your
argument yet.
You've failed to address the actual incidents of the day.
What you want of me is to follow your path of argument bit by bit.
It doesn't work that way. It's a debate.
The way a debate works is that you lay out your case in its entirety, and then
I counter.
Then you counter, and then I counter.
Simple.
Proceed.
Page 13 of 226
Mellish)
I'd rather you present your entire case in all its glory.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Let me post this again in case you have not read it.
Quote:
OK...for the sake of continuing, that's my entire case answer it.
I believe that because of the evidences presented above and Israelis past
actions such as the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty and other actions that the
Israelis were responsible for 9/11 and got the blind American people to
blame Arabs for it.
How's that? Am I clear now? I heartily await your response.

Page 14 of 226
Here's my response:
What exactly happened that day?
Can you give us a timeline on what happened that day?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Now TC if you want to know how a person will act in the future don’t you
think it would be wise to look at how they acted in the past? Their actions in
the past will give a good gage of what we can expect from them for their
future actions. Let’s look at some of Israel’s past actions and the actions of
Zionists. Again I would like you to answer true or false to each of the items
listed:
1.In 1956, as reported by the Times Of London, during one of Israel's

perpetual wars with its neighbors, the Mossad tried to trick the United States
into siding with Israel against the Arabs by blowing up a US facility in Cairo
and blaming the Arabs for it. The plot was wrecked when the operatives
were caught and confessed, creating a huge scandal.
2. According to Victor Ostrovski, a defector from the Mossad, the USA was
tricked into bombing Libya when the Mossad planted a radio transmitter in
Tripoli which sent out fake orders to terrorists which the USA could
Page 15 of 226
intercept.
3. On June 8, Israel used unmarked fighters and torpedo boats to launch an
hour and one-half attack on the American Navy ship the USS Liberty, costing
34 American lives and 171 wounded. The Israelis first attacked the Liberty's
radio towers in an attempt to stop the Sixth Fleet from learning that the
Israelis were the attackers. After unmarked Israeli fighters horrendously
bombed and strafed the Liberty, Israel sent in torpedo boats to finish the job.
They even machine gunned the deployed life rafts in an effort to ensure that
there would be no survivors (witnesses) who could expose them. Just as in
the Lavon Affair, Israel hoped to blame this act of war on their enemy, the
Egyptians. This time, only the courage and resourcefulness of the Liberty's
crew prevented a further compounding of the travesty.
4. As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them a former Israeli
Colonel and Mossad agent, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican congress
carrying 9mm pistols and dynamite, but were released following intense
pressure from the Israeli Embassy. The initial arrests of the two Israelis inside
the Palacio Legislativo de San Lázaro made top news on Mexico City
television and radio on the evening of October 10. TV Azteca had extensive
coverage on the first night and on the following day. La Cronica de Hoy
Newspaper and El Universal Newspaper both covered the incident the
following two days but now it seems that there is a lack of reports. If the
Mexican Congress blew up guess who would have been blamed?
6. In 1950 there was a wave of anti-Semitism and terrorist acts against Jews in
Iraq. One such person who was greatly affected by this was Naeim Giladi
who was 21 at the time. He joined the Zionists to fight against an enemy who
he thought were deliberately trying to kill Jews.
Today Naeim has changed he no longer supports the Zionists. In an essay

"The Jews of Iraq", which is on line, Giladi describes his bitter realization that
Zionists were behind the anti Semitism and bombings.
A testimony is one of the ways that evidence is defined. In the above Mr.
Giladi admits that the Zionists committed acts against Iraqi Jews and got
others to take the blame for it.
I contend that in the examples above and many more the Jews have shown
a consistent pattern of performing terrorist acts and have others blamed so
Page 16 of 226
that they can advance their own interests. "Cui Bono" applied above and it
also apply with 9/11. The ones who benefited most from the 9/11 attacks
were the Israelis.
Even Netanyahu said the following:
Quote:
Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States
and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, "It's very
good." Then he edited himself: "Well, not very good, but it will generate
immediate sympathy.

Edited by ansar on 03/13/03 10:49 PM.
Okay, you're setting the scene by explaining a pattern of deception by Israel

in the past.
Good, you're building an argument.
Now, proceed to the events of that day.
Page 17 of 226
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Ha ha ha TC you are playing judge by evaluating my arguments and telling

me which way to go. Hey! You are not supposed to do that.
I conclude TC and I repeat again:
Israelis were responsible for 9/11 and got the blind American people to
blame Arabs for it.

How can you conclude your argument by not talking about the actual act
committed?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Page 18 of 226
My argument was to show evidences implicating the Israelis with 9/11. I
have done that as far as I know since you have not refuted any of what I
presented. I even showed past actions by the Israelis I use as further evidence
to support my claim.
The real question is what do you have to refute any of what I presented? Just
telling me I don't have an argument is not enough. If that were the case it
should be easy for you to refute me.

You haven't even discussed the actual events of that day.
How can you form an argument without addressing the central points of
contention?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
TC you are fast becoming a waste of my time. Well then you discuss the
events of the day! Use that to refute my argument!
Page 19 of 226
You don't have an argument to refute!
You say the Israelis are implicated yet you haven't addressed the
circumstances of the terrorist attacks.
What happened that day?
Mellish)
Okay, let's say your foundation is correct.
What exactly happened that day?
Mellish)
Page 20 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Do you agree that my foundation is correct? Is that what you are saying?

No, I'm not saying that.
Let's assume it is though for the sake of this debate.
Get to your central points.
Continue on with what happened that day.
Give us a timeline.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
If you are not saying that, then which of my assumptions are wrong? Not for
the sake of the debate but for what you believe is true. I can accept it if you
show some to be wrong and others to be right.
Page 21 of 226
Why not just present your entire argument so that then I can rebut your
argument?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
Israelis were responsible for 9/11 and got the blind American people to blame
Arabs for it.

Page 22 of 226
You haven't addressed the actual events of that day.
You would lose in any court.
I will humor you however.
Mellish)
Quote:
Source?
Mellish)
Quote:
5. Under suspicious circumstances the Israelis were deported to Israel
Page 23 of 226
Source?
Mellish)
Quote:
Source for the 1000's number.
How many roughly in those towers were Israelis?
Mellish)
Quote:
Page 24 of 226
Source?
Mellish)
Quote:
deaths.
Sources?
Mellish)
Quote:
Page 25 of 226
On record? Where?
Mellish)
Quote:
showed the Israelis had a definite involvement with 9/11.
Source?
Mellish)
Quote:
Mexican congress.
Source? And if so, what does this have to do with 9/11?
Page 26 of 226
Mellish)
Quote:
General Gul of the Pakistani ISI is heavily responsible for the creation of the
Taliban and giving shelter to Al-Qaida.
He is not an impartial observer....he has much to benefit from claiming that

someone else is the actual perpetrator of the terrorist acts, since the ISI's role
in Afghanistan vis a vis the Taliban and Al-Qaida is well known.
Mellish)
Quote:
Page 27 of 226
How does this implicate the Israelis directly?
Mellish)
Quote:
Source?
Mellish)
Quote:
How does that implicate the Israelis?
Page 28 of 226
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
That is a lot better TC. Here are the sources for both 4 and 5.
Quote:
A September 14 New York Times round-up of the nationwide investigation

into the terrorist attacks seemed to imply not just foreknowledge, in the case
of the 5 Israelis, but some form of collaboration:
"In New Jersey, where officials believe that the hijackers received assistance
from accomplices, Sherri Evanina, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Newark,
said that five men were detained late Tuesday after the van in which they
were driving was stopped on Route 3 in East Rutherford. She said witnesses
had reported seeing the men celebrating the attack on the World Trade
Center earlier in the day in Union City. 'They were seen leaving the location
after they were celebrating,' Agent Evanina said. 'They were watching the
entire event from their location.'"
If the best comedy is unintentional, then "The White Van" is chock full of
yucks. The following had me rolling on the floor:
"For the FBI, deciphering the truth from the five Israelis proved to be
difficult. One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10
weeks — then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told
us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked
for Israeli intelligence in another country."
Page 29 of 226
Okay, so we have 5 Israelis cheering the terrorist act, and one who refused to
take a lie detector for 10 weeks.
How does this implicate the Israelis?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Hey TC please hold that thought. I really want to be thorough and not miss
anything. Let me provide source for all that you asked me for so that we and
all who are following this will be on the same page. I want to be sure that my
foundation is true and accepted by you.

Page 30 of 226
Okey-dokey.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
For the 4000 Israeli number:
Quote:
The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000
Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon at the time of the attack. (The headline and first sentence of the
Jerusalem Post article)
Jerusalem Post. (2001). Thousands of Israelis missing near WTC, Pentagon.
Sept. 12.
For the Odigo Warnings:
Quote:
WORKERS AT ISRAELI OFFICE RECEIVED ADVANCE NOTICE OF THE

9-11 TERROR ATTACK
SOURCE: HA'ARETZ (ISRAELI NEWSPAPER) ENGLISH LANGUAGE
EDITION
THIS STORY WAS ALSO CONFIRMED IN THE WASHINGTON POST
www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?
itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C
ODIGO SAYS WORKERS WERE WARNED OF ATTACK
By Yuval Dror
Page 31 of 226
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received
messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11
predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating
with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to
find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the
messages and immediately after the attack informed the company's
management, which immediately contacted Israeli security services, which
brought in the FBI. "I have no idea why the message was sent to these two
workers, who don't know the sender. .......And I don't know if our
information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover.
Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with
offices in Herzliya.
Don't be impatient there is more to come.

{Ansar Wrote}
Mexican Congress Story:
Quote:
Interview with Journalist Hector Carreon on 11-30:

http://www.broadcast.com/shows/endoftheline/01archives.html
From the PGR (Mexican Department Of Justice) official web site comes an
interesting story.
Page 32 of 226
As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them a former Israeli
pressure from the Israeli Embassy.
Israeli Spy Ring:
Quote:
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about
evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring.
10/09/02 Windows Media File: Part 4 of the Carl Cameron story on the Israeli
Spies. This story reports on the penetration of US telephone systems by
Amdocs and Comverse Infosys, and shows how quickly the US Government
moved to cover it all up.
10/09/02 The Fox News story on the Israel Spy Ring Real Player - Part 3
10/09/02 The Fox News story on the Israel Spy Ring Real Player - Part 4

{Ansar Wrote}
OBL Denial:
Quote:
OSAMA BIN LADEN CLAIMS HE'S BEING FRAMED

"I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the
United States. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the
Page 33 of 226
killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act.
There exists a government within the government of the United States. That
secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.... The
United States should trace the perpetrators of these attacks to those persons
who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam
and Christianity so that their own nation could survive.
- Osama Bin Laden (Source: BBC Interview with Carol Valentine)
Insider Stock Trades:
Quote:
Remember right after the attacks when you couldn't watch TV for five
minutes without hearing somebody say "put option"? The 9/11 insider stock
trades got endless airplay on the major networks before Osama bin Laden
became fixed in the popular imagination, whereupon the media bent
themselves to the task of establishing his guilt. Still, even if Al Qaeda placed
the 4,744 suspicious transactions, wouldn't the story still be useful, if only to
further illuminate the terrorist network's money machine? Apparently not,
because the story didn't just fade away over time; it suddenly vanished. Once
in a while, a TV news anchorperson would assure us there had been "nothing
to" the rumors while failing to explain, if this was true, where the story had
come from or why it had gotten so such attention.
But conservative scandal-tracker Tom Flocco didn't give up on the hinky
stock trades. In a series of articles, he follows the money back to a bigwig in
the financial firm Deutsche Bank, who also was once executive director of
(surprise!) the CIA. Some might question Flocco's credibility as an
investigative reporter, I suppose -- although credibility in the news business
appears to be a dead letter anyway, if CNN could accidentally fabricate the
5,000 trades out of whole cloth to begin with.
Page 34 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
General Gul:
Quote:
Search Result 2
From: Carlos cmsahe (cmsahe@excite.com)
Subject: Sep. 26, 2001, Interview with General Gul
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.afghanistan
Date: 2001-10-19 16:45:53 PST
UPI United Press International, Sep. 26, 2001, Interview with General
Gul
General Hameed Gul
General Hameed Gul was director general of the Pakistani Intelligence

Services ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) and a close ally of
America, working hand in hand with the American CIA. Gul was also a
great supporter of the "American Way Of Life" and Western democracy.
General Gul turned against America for betrayal and countless broken
promises.

Page 35 of 226
A Usenet post....funny.....
....but proceed.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Hey TC please let me know if I miss anything or do you have any problems
with any of my sources.
I am a Muslim and it is time for me to pray. Please post your responses and I
will get back to you after my prayers.

I need every point sourced.
Allahu akbar....see you tomorrow evening with my rebuttals.
Page 36 of 226
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Hey it will only take me about a half hour to pray. We can continue
afterwards or do you want to pick up tomorrow evening as a preference to
you. It is OK with me but I will be posting sourced info as you requested.

Continue posting your sources.....and try to discuss the events of September

11, 2001 as well.
I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Page 37 of 226
I have associated sources with all my previous statements made and
combined them. I have even added extra sources and comments to further
make my case. I still want you to confirm that the information is accurate and
the sources credible. I will start with the following:
1.Israelis were caught celebrating and photographing and videotaping each

other while the WTC was burning and going down in a rubble.
3. The owner of the company Dominik Suter immediately fled to Israel.
5. Under suspicious circumstances the Israelis were deported to Israel.
11. In the van belonging to Urban Moving Systems maps were found that the
FBI says showed the Israelis had a definite involvement with 9/11.
Sources for information above are as follows:
Quote:
1. In an astonishing story in the Bergen Record, we learn that 5 men

described as "Israeli tourists," were picked up 8 hours after the WTC attack,
"carrying maps linking them to the blasts." "...[S]ources close to the
investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing
plot.’There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted,' the
source said. 'It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they
knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.'"
According to this account, the 5 "tourists" had been picked up by local police
after receiving the following alert from the FBI:
"Vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack. White, 2000 Chevrolet
van with New Jersey registration with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back
seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner
into World Trade Center. Three individuals with van were seen celebrating
after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office
requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals."
Page 38 of 226
2. 20/20 ABC News
The White Van

Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?
June 21 — Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center
attacks, and those who saw them won't forget them. But a New Jersey
homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation
into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.
Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade
Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor
calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.
She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower
Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.
Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in
the parking lot of her apartment building. "They seemed to be taking a
movie," Maria said.
The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade
Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the
expressions on the men's faces. "They were like happy; you know … They
didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange," she said.
She found the behavior so suspicious that she wrote down the license plate
number of the van and called the police. Before long, the FBI was also on the
scene, and a statewide bulletin was issued on the van.
The arresting officers said they saw a lot that aroused their suspicion about
the men. One of the passengers had $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock.
Another was carrying two foreign passports. A box cutter was found in the
van. But perhaps the biggest surprise for the officers came when the five men
identified themselves as Israeli citizens.
‘We Are Not Your Problem’
Page 39 of 226
According to the police report, one of the passengers told the officers they
had been on the West Side Highway in Manhattan "during the incident" —
referring to the World Trade Center attack. The driver of the van, Sivan
Kurzberg, told the officers, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your
problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." The other
passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and
Omer Marmari.
The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn,
ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States
illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to
be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in
Washington put a hold on the case.
The five men were held in detention for more than two months. Some of
them were placed in solitary confinement for 40 days, and some of them
were given as many as seven lie-detector tests.
For the FBI, deciphering the truth from the five Israelis proved to be difficult.
One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10 weeks
— then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told us
Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked for
Israeli intelligence in another country…
From what the Israelis were saying to the cops, it is interesting how these
Israelis "knew" the next day after 9/11 that the ones responsible were the
Palestinians. How were they so sure? Then they proved to be liars anyway!

{Ansar Wrote}
Page 40 of 226
Sources:
Quote:
1.These are the latest revelations, detailed in an article written by Paul

Rodriguez for Insight – a magazine published by the Washington Times,
editorially a staunch supporter of Israel:
Citing internal DEA documents and unnamed senior federal officials,

Rodriguez basically confirms the thesis by Carl Cameron: that, starting last
year, organized teams of young Israelis who described themselves as "art
students" descended on federal facilities, including military bases, ostensibly
selling their paintings, and aggressively seeking access – not only to public
buildings, but to the private homes of senior officials. Rodriguez writes that
the students "claimed to be from either the University of Jerusalem or the
Bezalel Academy of Arts in Jerusalem." However, an Associated Press
account which otherwise pooh-poohs the whole affair as "murky" at best, and
sprinkles the story liberally with denials from Abe Foxman and several
government officials, nonetheless informs us that:
"Several of those questioned by investigators said they were students from

Bezalel Academy of Art and Design. But Pnina Calpen, spokeswoman for the
Israeli school, said no one named in the report was a student there in the last
10 years."
"Besides federal law-enforcement incidents, DEA's I[nternal] S[ecurity] unit

found that several military bases also had experienced unauthorized entries
by some of the students, including two bases from which Stealth aircraft and
other super secret military units operate. Unauthorized photographing of
military sites and civilian industrial complexes, such as petroleum-storage
facilities, also was reported to the DEA, the documents show and interviews
confirm.
Page 41 of 226
2. On December 11, Fox News ran the first of a four-part series by Carl
Cameron that offered yet more evidence to support my contention that the
Israelis had some rather specific foreknowledge of the 9/11 atrocity. Citing
sources in law enforcement, Cameron dropped a bombshell:
"A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to
investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions
when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United
States… A highly placed investigator said there are – quote – 'tie-ins.' But
when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, – quote –
'evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about
evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information.
The detained Israelis, reported Cameron, had been part of a vast spy
operation that had very possibly been tracking the hijackers, and had both
the means and the opportunity to discover the terrorist plot. Over four
nights, he detailed extensive Israeli penetration of US defense and
government facilities revealed in the documents of a secret task force within
the government that has been collecting evidence on this case since the early
1990s.
Cameron's report, which was immediately denied by the Israelis, spread

pandemonium throughout the government, and official spokesmen
stonewalled. Ari Fleischer was unusually laconic, referring questions from
reporters to an unresponsive Justice Department and other equally
uncooperative government agencies. As for the rest of the American media –
a stunning silence. You could hear a pin drop. As Cameron put it in an
interview with CSPAN:
"The biggest story of our time, of Israel spying on all branches of the
government, on all our intelligence agencies – in the CIA [Central
Intelligence Agency], the DEA and the White House itself, is not picked up
by the leading newspapers like the New York Times and the Washington
Post."
3. From Der Spiegel:

"An entire troop of Israeli terror investigators disguised as students took to
the tracks of Arabic terrorists and their cells in the USA between December
2000 and April 2001. During their undercover investigations, the Israelis
Page 42 of 226
came very close to the later perpetrators of September 11. In Hollywood,
Florida they located both of the former Hamburg students and later terrorist
pilots Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi as potential terrorists. Agents
settled down in immediate proximity of their apartment and observed the
seemingly normal flight school students around the clock."
So they were living next door to the terrorists, including the leader of the 9/11
hijackers, watching their every move – but didn't tell us what they were up to
until August, 2001. It is, of course, extremely difficult to prove the precise
role of a secretive, foreign intelligence organization, such as the Mossad, in a
terrorist act; they don’t brag about their exploits on the Internet. If indeed
they had foreknowledge of these murderous acts of terrorism – and then had
the cold-blooded mentality not to warn the United States because they saw a
horrendous massacre of thousands of Americans as good for Israel - it
follows that they would have felt no restraint from actually instigating and
covertly aiding this terrorist plan through their own agent provocateurs.

{Ansar Wrote}
deaths.
Page 43 of 226
Sources for the above statements are as follows:
Quote:
The day after the attack on the World Trade Center, the Jerusalem Post, the
most respected and famous Israeli newspaper in the world, reported that
4000 Israelis were missing in the attack on the WTC. The Foreign Ministry
compiled the number from Israeli relatives, who in the first few hours after
the attack, contacted the Israeli Foreign Ministry and gave the names of
Israeli friends and relatives who worked in the WTC or who had business
scheduled in it or its adjacent structures. Even without seeing the article in
the Jerusalem Post, logic alone would tell you that there would be many
hundreds, if not thousands of Israelis in the World Trade Center at the time
of the attacks. The international Jewish involvement in banking and finance
is legendary. For instance, two of the richest firms in New York are
Goldman-Sachs and the Solomon Brothers; and both firms have offices in the
Twin Towers. Many executives in these firms regularly commute back and
forth to Israel. New York is the center of world-wide Jewish financial power,
and the World Trade Center is at its epicenter. One would naturally expect
the Israeli death toll to be catastrophic. The Jerusalem Post certainly thought
so on September 12, 2001. Here is the beginning of its article:
Thousands of Israelis missing near WTC, Pentagon
The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000
Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and
the Pentagon at the time of the attack. (The headline and first sentence of
the Jerusalem Post article)
Searching through hundreds of articles trying to track down the true Israeli
death toll, I found a New York Times piece that clarified the precise number
of Israelis who died in the World Trade Center attack. It turned out that of
the 130 Israelis President Bush claimed had died in the World Trade Center,
129 of them were still alive. Only one Israeli had actually died. I was
incredulous. "Good God," I said to myself, "only one Israeli!" Here is the
pertinent excerpt from the NY Times:
Page 44 of 226
But interviews with many consulate officials Friday suggested that the lists
of people they were collecting varied widely in their usefulness. For
example, the city had somehow received reports of many Israelis feared
missing at the site, and President Bush in his address to the country on
Thursday night mentioned that about 130 Israelis had died in the attacks.
But Friday, Alon Pinkas, Israel's consul general here, said that lists of the
missing included reports from people who had called in because, for
instance, relatives in New York had not returned their phone calls from
Israel. There were, in fact, only three Israelis who had been confirmed as
dead: two on the planes and another who had been visiting the towers on
business and who was identified and buried. (New York Times, Sept. 22)
The very low death toll of 130 suggested that a number of Israelis at the
Trade Center had been warned before the attack. When I found out the truth
that only one Israeli had died, there could be no doubt that there had been a
prior warning for many Israelis.

{Ansar Wrote}
Source:
Quote:
1.WORKERS AT ISRAELI OFFICE RECEIVED ADVANCE NOTICE OF THE

9-11 TERROR ATTACK
Page 45 of 226
EDITION

By Yuval Dror
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received
messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11
predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating
with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to
find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover.
Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with
offices in Herzliya.
2. Officials at instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed today that two

employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World Trade
Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New York
landmarks.
But Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed that
workers in Odigo's research and development and international sales office
in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user approximately two
hours prior to the first attack. (From the Washington Post's Newsbytes)
So now we have powerful and convincing evidence from impeccable sources

that Israel had foreknowledge of the attack. First, without a prior warning,
there could not have been only a single Israeli victim at the World Trade
Page 46 of 226
Center. Secondly, there is clear confirmation that a company with offices in
both Israel and the WTC received warnings immediately prior to the attack.
Who would have warned Israelis of the impending attack, if not Israel's
Mossad? The fact that Israel's government had prior knowledge of the
pending attack and had warned potential Israeli victims, but then
deliberately let thousands of Americans die – makes the Israelis equally
responsible for the carnage.

{Ansar Wrote}
Mexican congress.
Source:
Quote:
1. Interview with Journalist Hector Carreon on 11-30:

http://www.broadcast.com/shows/endoftheline/01archives.html
From the PGR (Mexican Department Of Justice) official web site comes an
interesting story.
As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them a former Israeli

pressure from the Israeli Embassy...
2. From Crónica de Hoy, Mexico City, October 12, 2001

Unabridged Translation by The Narco News Bulletin
Page 47 of 226
Mexico will investigate if Israelis were terrorists
-- They were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades, explosives, three
detonators and 58 bullets
-- They were detained by sugar industry workers in the Legislative Palace
By Alejandro Páez and Francisco Mejía
The Attorney General is investigating and interrogating two Israelis (one

already a nationalized Mexican) who were detained in the House of
Representatives Wednesday with two 9mm pistols, nine grenades,
explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets, to determine if they belong to any
group connected with terrorists or subversive groups. Salvador Gersson
Smike, 34, a retired Israeli military official and nationalized Mexican, and Sar
Ben Zui, 27, of Israeli nationality, were held yesterday in the installations of
the metropolitan offices of the Attorney General, headed by the assistant
attorney general for criminal process Gilberto Higuera Bernal…

{Ansar Wrote}
Services and a close ally of America, said the following:
"Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits
from the crime? The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. and
four flights are diverted from their assigned air space and no air traffic
controller sounds the alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m.
That also smacks of a small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against the
Pentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend or
foe identification -- challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF, jets
are instantly scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no further
questions asked. This was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed
Page 48 of 226
to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation. Who
could that have been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation, like
the Warren report after the Kennedy assassination?”
Source:
Quote:
From: Carlos cmsahe (cmsahe@excite.com)

Subject: Sep. 26, 2001, Interview with General Gul
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.afghanistan
Date: 2001-10-19 16:45:53 PST
UPI United Press International, Sep. 26, 2001, Interview with General
Gul
General Hameed Gul was director general of the Pakistani Intelligence

Services ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) and a close ally of America, working
hand in hand with the American CIA. Gul was also a great supporter of the
"American Way Of Life" and Western democracy. General Gul turned against
America for betrayal and countless broken promises.
What is key about General Gul is that he headed the ISI and had close
contacts with the CIA and Mossad. If anyone would know about a covert
operation, he would. In an interview conducted with Arnaud de Borchgrave
on September 14, 2001 for UPI he said the following:
Quote:
De Borchgrave: So who did Black Sept. 11?
Gul: Mossad and its accomplices. The U.S. spends $40 billion a year on its 11
intelligence agencies. That's $400 billion in 10 years. Yet the Bush
Page 49 of 226
Administration says it was taken by surprise. I don't believe it. Within 10
minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center CNN
said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of
disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and
put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people
from thinking for themselves.

{Ansar Wrote}
Source:
Quote:
© Copyright 2002, From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com, All

Rights Reserved.
TOROTNO (FTW) - Delmart Edward "Mike" Vreeland, an American citizen

whose claims to being a US Naval Lieutenant assigned to the Office of Naval
Intelligence (ONI) are being increasingly corroborated in open court, has
been in a Canadian jail since December 6, 2000. On August 11 or 12 of 2001,
the date is uncertain, after trying to verbally alert his Canadian jailers to the
coming World Trade Center attacks, he wrote down key information and
sealed it in an envelope which he then had placed in jailers' custody. This
event is not disputed by Canadian authorities. The letter specifically listed a
number of targets including The Sears Towers, The World Trade Center, The
White House, The Pentagon, The World Bank, The Canadian parliament
building in Ottawa and the Royal Bank in Toronto.
Page 50 of 226
A chilling sentence follows the list of targets, "Let one happen. Stop the
rest!!!"
When the envelope was opened on September 14th it set off alarms in the US
and Canada...
2. The following is from the NATION. STERN-INTEL

(Canada), September 17, 2001.
A US military intelligence source revealed details of

an internal intelligence memo that points to the
Israeli Mossad intelligence service having links to
the World Trade Centre and Pentagon attacks.
The intelligence source, who requested his name be

withheld, confirmed the internal US intelligence memo
circulated four weeks ago describing information that
pointed to the threat of a covert Israeli operation on
US soil to turn mass public opinion against
Palestinian Arabs via an apparent terrorist attack on
US interests that would give Israel the green light to
implement a large scale military onslaught against the
Palestinian Arab population...

{Ansar Wrote}
15. The Washington Times ran a story on September 10, 2001 about a 68-page
Page 51 of 226
The Mossad is the most ruthless terrorist organization in the entire world. It
is also one of the largest and most sophisticated intelligence organizations.
No other nation comes even close to its scope and power in the Mideast
region. It prides itself on infiltrating every sizable militant Palestinian and
Arabic organization on earth. Knowing these facts, there can be little doubt
the Mossad has deeply penetrated one of the oldest, largest and what is
considered the most dangerous Arabic terrorist organization on earth; bin
Laden's al-Qaida.
Furthermore, the FBI and the CIA have clearly stated that the attack on the
WTC and Pentagon was a huge covert operation using an international
network of at least a hundred terrorists, spanning three continents. Could
Mossad agents in al-Qaida as well as the rest of Mossad vast network of
thousands of infiltrators and informants, not have known about the most
extensive and ambitious terrorist operation in history?

{Ansar Wrote}
This is common knowledge that have been reported extensively in the media
I will just quote what two sources wrote about this:
Quote:
1. Remember right after the attacks when you couldn't watch TV for five
minutes without hearing somebody say "put option"? The 9/11 insider stock
trades got endless airplay on the major networks before Osama bin Laden
Page 52 of 226
became fixed in the popular imagination, whereupon the media bent
themselves to the task of establishing his guilt. Still, even if Al Qaeda placed
the 4,744 suspicious transactions, wouldn't the story still be useful, if only to
further illuminate the terrorist network's money machine? Apparently not,
because the story didn't just fade away over time; it suddenly vanished. Once
in a while, a TV news anchorperson would assure us there had been "nothing
to" the rumors while failing to explain, if this was true, where the story had
come from or why it had gotten so such attention.
But conservative scandal-tracker Tom Flocco didn't give up on the hinky

stock trades. In a series of articles, he follows the money back to a bigwig in
the financial firm Deutsche Bank, who also was once executive director of
(surprise!) the CIA. (by Mike Ward, PopMatters Columnist and Film Critic,
December 2002)
2. It was reported that an unusually large amount of thousands of put stock

options were purchased on United and American airlines just before 9/11.
You make money on put options when the price of a stock goes down. There
were also reports of unusual stock transactions in Europe related to 9/11. The
CIA supposedly monitors these kinds of unusual stock transactions so that
people who have insider information can possibly be identified and
apprehended as potential participants in a case like 9/11. To date, the identity
of the person or persons, who were involved in these option and stock
transactions, have not been made public. It was also reported that a
$2,500,000 profit from one of the option trades has not been claimed by the
person who made that trade. The FBI can easily identify the person or
persons involved in these stock trades because in order to make a stock trade,
you have to open an account with a stockbroker and deposit money in your
account before you trade.
It would seem easy enough for the FBI and CIA to go to the stockbrokers
where these trades were made and find out who made them. This is probably
the closest link that can be established to someone who was involved in 9/11
but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this. Why? (A View
From Jerusalem, Israel, By Michael Shore)

Page 53 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Source:
Quote:
SOURCE: http://www.public-action.com/9/11/oblintrv.html
(Source: BBC Monitoring Service)
==========================================
Bin Laden: AUTHENTIC INTERVIEW
by Carol A. Valentine
October 16, 2001-- An interview with Osama bin Laden was published in a
Karachi-based Pakistani daily newspaper, Ummat, on September 28, 2001. In
this interview, bin Laden says of the September 11 attacks in the US:
"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the
United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no
knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women,
children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids
causing
harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is
forbidden even in the course of a battle.
"It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women,

children and common people . . . "
Page 54 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
Not only is this true of the Mossad but this seems to be a consistent pattern
for Jahcubites (Satanic Jews). They are very good at committing fraud and
setting up others to take the blame for their deeds. Here is an example of
what a Jewish Microbiologist responsible for the anthrax scare did. Notice
the details in his note in trying to implicate an Arab.
Jews setting up An Arab
Page 55 of 226
Los Angeles, Alta California - 2/26/2002 - (ACN) Jewish microbiologist Dr.
Philip M. Zack may be behind the deadly anthrax contaminated letters that
were mailed to NBC's Tom Brokaw, Senator Tom Daschle and others,
according to FBI sources. In a rapidly unraveling investigation by the FBI, it
appears that the "Arab-hating-Jew" was behind a vile conspiracy to frame a
colleague who was born in Egypt and who worked, along with Dr. Zack, at
the U.S. Army's Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases in Fort
Detrick, Md.
La Voz de Aztlan has maintained from the beginning that the anthrax-laced
letters seemed contrived and were purposely written to make them appear
that they were coming from someone in the Islamic World. New information
just released by the FBI confirms our suspicions. On October 9, 2001 we
published "anthrax Terrorists may be Zionists" in which we outlined the
reasons for our suspicions and in addition reported on a letter we received
with a yellowish powder. On October 24, 2001 we published an editorial
"anthrax Letter Messages Seem Contrived" in which we commented on our
theory concerning the origin of the letters.
The case against Dr. Phillip M. Zack began unraveling when Egyptian-born
scientist Dr. Ayaad Assaad, now a U.S. citizen, was called in by the FBI for an
interview on October 2, 2001. The FBI had received an unsigned letter falsely
accusing Dr. Assaad of being responsible for mailing the anthrax tainted
letters. The letter stated, among other things, "Dr. Assaad is a potential
biological terrorist," and "I have worked with Dr. Assaad, and I heard him
say that he has a vendetta against the U.S. government and that if anything
happens to him, he told his sons to carry on."
The anonymous letter falsely accusing Dr. Assaad was sent a little after the
September 11 terrorist attacks but before anyone knew about the anthrax-
laced letters. On October 5, 2001, about 10 days after the anonymous letter
was mailed, Robert Stevens, Photo Editor of The Sun in Florida, became the
first of five individuals to die from an anthrax infection...
You can go here for the entire story.

Page 56 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
TC...I have in detail presented my evidences showing the Mossad

involvement with 9/11. I have taken the time to meticulously list sources that
are credible. These sources are Jewish as in the Jerusalem Post and Ha'aertz
and they are standard Zionist supporting organizations like the NY Times,
Washington Post, etc. I was careful to not use sources that you or anyone that
are doubters could criticize although there are volumes of good information
from those sources as well. I want to proceed with the understanding that the
foundation I presented is correct. You may not agree with statements as in
what General Gul said or feel he is credible but my point is whether or not
you believe he said what I posted. It was a UPI story. I await your reply TC.

{Ansar Wrote}
TC it is 3:57 AM in the morning where I am. I have to be at work for 7 AM. I
am going to get a few hours of sleep. Please respond and I will get back to
you later.

Page 57 of 226
What's the source of this Stock trade insider?
Who profited/
How much?
If people profited, how are they involved in 9/11?
Mellish)
Your General Gul proof is inadmissible.
It's a UseNet posting.
ISI links to Al-Qaida and the Taliban are well documented.
Even if he did say this, no doubt it's to cover his own ass.
Mellish)
What did the 5 people do?
Page 58 of 226
Did they bring the towers down by remote?
Were they there to make sure it went down?
What was their purpose?
Mellish)
Pure speculation on your part as to their motives.
However, it does fit my thesis that Israeli intelligence was tracking these
guys.
Mellish)
Quote:
The very low death toll of 130 suggested that a number of Israelis at the
Trade Center had been warned before the attack. When I found out the truth
that only one Israeli had died, there could be no doubt that there had been a
prior warning for many Israelis.
Page 59 of 226
Based on what? Wishful thinking?
How 4000 people could kept quiet about an advance warning?
It's impossible for 4000 people to not talk about an advance warning for 1
and a half years.
Mellish)
Quote:
So now we have powerful and convincing evidence from impeccable sources

that Israel had foreknowledge of the attack.
No, we don't.
Mellish)
What does Mexico have to do with 9/11?
Page 60 of 226
Mellish)
General Gul piece from Usenet.
Disregarded.
Mellish)
Is Vreeland Mossad?
Was he involved in the attack?
Mellish)
How does this implicate the Mossad in the terrorist acts of 9/11?
Page 61 of 226
Mellish)
It's not common knowledge.
Who profited?
How much?
How so?
Mellish)
La Voz De Aztlan isn't a reliable source.
Mellish)
Page 62 of 226
You haven't detailed anything.
You have stated that the Mossad has used tricks in the past, much like every
other intelligence organization, as a historical precedent.
No good.
You have 5 guys getting arrested for cheering the incident and one refusing a
lie detector for 10 weeks.
You have a lot of circumstantial evidence...yet no hard proof of forewarning.
How are 4000 people able to keep a secret for so long?
Why were just Israelis, and not all Jews, forewarned?
What was the purpose of those 5 in New Jersey?
Mellish)
How did the Mossad commit the acts of terror on 9/11?
Mellish)
Page 63 of 226
The 4,000 hoax
[Addendum, Oct. 7, 4 p.m. ET: Osama Bin Laden essentially claimed credit
for the Sept. 11 attacks in a statement recorded before Sunday's strikes on
Afghanistan. "America was hit by God in one of its softest spots," he said. "If
it continues with this policy [against Iraq and the PLO], the sons of Islam will
not stop their struggle."]
It is an article of faith in many Muslim countries that Israel was behind the
attack on the World Trade Center, with many citing as their evidence a "news
report" that 4,000 Israelis called in sick from their jobs at the World Trade
Center on Sept. 11. The allegation has now appeared on scores of Web sites
and bulletin boards, has been reproduced in e-mails too numerous to count,
and has run as fact in newspapers and news broadcasts in the Middle East.
Where did this charge originate, and what path did it take around the world?
First, a question begs: Where did the precise figure of 4,000 Israelis come
from? According to the Anti-Defamation League's Web site, on Sept. 11, the
Israeli Embassy released a statement expressing concern about the 4,000
Israeli nationals living in New York City—few of whom actually worked in
the World Trade Center. At press time, the embassy couldn't confirm this
statement.
According to Nexis and the Google search engine, the first mention of Israeli
involvement in the attacks came in a Sept. 17 report on Lebanon's Al-Manar
Television. The Los Angeles Times reports that the terrorist group Hezbollah
has free access to Al-Manar's airwaves, and the station's Web site claims that
the station exists to "stage an effective psychological warfare with the Zionist
enemy."
The next day at 6:26 a.m., the American Web site Information Times
published an article headlined "4,000 Jews Did Not Go To Work At WTC On
Sept. 11," and credited it to an "AL-MANAR Television Special Investigative
Report." This was not the first time that Information Times had pointed the
Page 64 of 226
finger at Israel. The day after the attacks, it warned in an article that the
"terrorist government of Israel … cannot be ruled out" as a suspect.
Information Times purports to be edited by Syed Adeeb from the eighth floor
of the National Press Club at 549 15th St. NW, Washington, DC, 20045. The
Press Club says it has no such tenant and repeated messages sent to the e-
mail address for Syed Abeed listed on the site bounce back as undeliverable.
Directory assistance for Washington, D.C., has no listing for Information
Times.
The "4,000 Jews" page is easily forwarded as e-mail, and this may explain the
message's rapid dissemination.
The Information Times article makes three charges:
1) Citing the Jordanian newspaper Al-Watan, it alleges that "Israelis

remained absent [on Sept. 11] based on hints from the Israeli General
Security Apparatus, the Shabak." No media source except Al-Manar claims to
have actually seen the editorial in Al-Watan, which the Jordanian Embassy's
information bureau describes as an obscure newspaper with a low
circulation. Al-Watan's source? Unnamed "Arab diplomatic sources." (A few
newspapers called Al-Watan have Web sites—click here, here, and here to
visit them—though none seem to be based in Jordan.)
2) Citing the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot, it alleges that Israeli secret
police prevented Prime Minister Ariel Sharon from traveling to New York
City on Sept. 11.
3) Citing the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, it alleges that the FBI arrested five
Israelis who were caught filming the WTC's smoking rubble from their office
building roof. (They were being held on the charge of "puzzling behavior.")
No other media outlet that can be searched through Nexis or Google has
confirmed the Information Times claims about Sharon and the five Israelis.
Within days, the story appeared in newspapers around the world. A

remarkably similar version appeared under the byline of Irina Malenko in
Russia's Pravda on Sept. 21. Pravda removed the article from its Web site a
few hours after posting, calling it a "great and foolish mistake," but it can still
Page 65 of 226
be accessed here. On Sept. 21, the Chicago Tribune reported that a Pakistani
paper, which it did not name, had published a similar account. In his Sept. 23
Slate "Dispatch" from Islamabad, Peter Maass reported that a local pro-
Taliban politician repeated the 4,000 Jews claim at an anti-U.S. rally. On Sept.
26, Pakistan's Business Recorder printed the story about 4,000 Jews in
language almost identical to the original Al-Manar article as a letter to the
editor under the name "Hakeem." The same day, the New York Times
reported that the allegation had appeared in a newsletter published by an
Islamic charity and in lesson plans prepared by Egyptian middle-school
teachers. On Oct. 4, the Chicago Tribune spotted the allegation in a Saudi
paper, which it did not name. In the Oct. 8 issue of Time, Tim McGirk
reported from Pakistan that the story had swept through the country's
mosques and Urdu newspapers.
On Sept. 28, USA Today repeated the claim in the context that "Muslims the
world over" had tried to pin the attack on Israel. USA Today did not explain
the origin of the charge. The Village Voice did the same on Oct. 2. The hoax-
debunking site Snopes.com assailed the story, as well. With the Web as a
weapon, a lie spreads quickly and easily. With the Web as a corrective tool,
the same lie becomes much easier to bat away.
Mellish)
Bye bye 4,000!
Page 66 of 226
Mellish)
The classification of information also falls squarely into my thesis:
-that the CIA is hiding foreknowledge of a terrorist attack, and is trying hide
its long relationship with Islamic radicals.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
Bye bye 4,000!
No it’s welcome home 4,000. Have a seat and stick around for a while.
If you noticed I never used any of the sources you mentioned in my report
about the 4,000. I used the Jerusalem Post and quotes from an article in the
NY Times. I know your thinking. Although what other news sources around
the world may have reported were true, you would deny it with your
favorite subtle charge of “anti-Semitism”. I know you would not call the
Jerusalem Post anti-Semite. Before any newspaper in the world, the
Jerusalem Post reported the 4,000 number on September 12th one day after
9/11. Where did they get that number from? Please pay close attention. The
Foreign Ministry compiled the number from Israeli relatives, who in the
Page 67 of 226
first few hours after the attack, contacted the Israeli Foreign Ministry and
gave the names of Israeli friends and relatives who worked in the WTC or
who had business scheduled in it or its adjacent structures. No Arab or
other news source made that number up. It came straight from the horse’s
mouth.
When 9/11 first happened, the Israelis wanted world sympathy to also be on
them so that number was truthfully reported to show that they also suffered
with the Americans from the “terrorists” actions. Little did they know that
their truthful reporting was really going to turn out to be a noose around
their necks? With such a high number of Israelis expected in that area (from
Israeli sources like relatives, etc) the following revelation by Alon Pinkas,
Israel’s general consul turned out to be a shock:
Quote:
But Friday, Alon Pinkas, Israel's consul general here, said that lists of the
missing included reports from people who had called in because, for
instance, relatives in New York had not returned their phone calls from
Israel. There were, in fact, only three Israelis who had been confirmed as
dead: two on the planes and another who had been visiting the towers on
business and who was identified and buried. (New York Times, Sept. 22)
Except for the one Israeli visitor who may not have been informed, no Israeli
was killed out of the 4,000 who were expected missing. Considering the
expected numbers of Israelis working in International banking firms like
Goldman Sachs, Solomon Brothers, etc. in the WTC and considering that
their numbers were significantly higher than people who were killed from
other nations like South Korea, Australia, Bangladesh and others, isn’t it just
peculiar that no Israeli died in the WTC attacks? Doesn’t that make you
wonder why??? Or do you blindly believe that God protected them because
they are his chosen people although the majority of them are atheistic
Marxists?
Any honest mind looking at these facts will conclude, “Well I don’t know for
sure but maybe, somehow the Israelis were warned ahead of time about
this.” But lookie lookie here there were two reports not from Arab
Page 68 of 226
newspapers, Russian newspapers or any other nation’s newspapers but from
good old Ha’aertz and the Washington Post that indeedy, yes sir buddy,
some Israelis were warned in N.Y. and in Israel 2 hours before the attack
took place.. Gee whiz how come it wasn't Iraqis who were warned? Here
again are some newsbytes from the stories from Ha’aertz and the
Washington Post:
Quote:
1. Instant Messages To Israel Warned Of WTC Attack
Officials at instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed today that two

employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World Trade
Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New York
landmarks.
But Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed that
workers in Odigo's research and development and international sales office
in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user approximately two
hours prior to the first attack. (From the Washington Post's Newsbytes)
2. WORKERS AT ISRAELI OFFICE RECEIVED ADVANCE NOTICE OF

THE 9-11 TERROR ATTACK
EDITION
By Yuval Dror Micha Macover,
information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said
Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New
York, with offices in Herzliya.
Page 69 of 226
Now this ain’t no Arab paper nor is it one a ‘dem’ anti-Semite papers
reporting this. This is straight from the holy Ha’aertz and the Washington
Post. Again why does it just happen to be Israelis who were warned? Why
wasn’t it Russians, Chinese, Africans, Saudis, Iraqis or some other nation?
Why do all of these circumstantial things surrounding 9/11 happen to
involve Israelis? I am sure if these facts were true about Iraq it would be front
paged news religiously known by EVERY American showing a definite tie of
Iraq to 9/11. Anyway it would be stronger than any of the nonsense Bush,
Powell and the U.S. government is trying to sell the world about Iraq’s
involvement with 9/11. After all these are the facts:
1. The WTC was attacked and thousands died.

2. Thousands of Israelis worked in firms like Goldman Sachs, Solomon
Brothers, etc. in the WTC.
3. As further proof of the numbers expected to be working there the Israeli
Foreign Ministry took the names of about 4,000 Israelis who were missing
and originally thought to be killed.
4. None, no not one of the 4,000 Israelis who were missing or expected
dead were found dead. The one found dead was a visitor. (darn…they did
not get to him on time!)
5. Not in Rome, not in Paris, not in Mecca, not in Baghdad but in Israel and
NY employees were warned 2 hours ahead of time about the 9/11 event.
These employees just happen to be Israelis. This was not reported by Arab
Newspapers at first, the very first report came from Ha’aertz and the
Washington Post.
Let any of the above facts be true about Iraq. Let one and not all five be
true about Iraq and I bet the next week Iraq would be no more!

{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
Page 70 of 226
What's the source of this Stock trade insider?
If people profited, how are they involved in 9/11?
The point made by Michael Shore in Jerusalem was: It was reported that an
unusually large amount of thousands of put stock options were purchased
on United and American airlines just before 9/11. You make money on put
options when the price of a stock goes down. There were also reports of
unusual stock transactions in Europe related to 9/11.
Mike Ward, PopMatters Columnist and Film Critic also reported: Still, even
if Al Qaeda placed the 4,744 suspicious transactions, wouldn't the story
still be useful, if only to further illuminate the terrorist network's money
machine? Apparently not, because the story didn't just fade away over
time; it suddenly vanished…Tom Flocco didn't give up on the hinky stock
trades. In a series of articles, he follows the money back to a bigwig in the
financial firm Deutsche Bank, who also was once executive director of
(surprise!) the CIA.
First of all the number of put stocks purchased were unusually high. How
did so many people on September 10, 2001 knew that American and United
Airlines stocks were going to take a dramatic drop in value the next day on
9/11? According to Mike Ward one of those people identified making money
on the put stocks happened to once be an executive director of the CIA. How
did he know that the stocks were going to drop in value to risk investing in
them?
Along with no inquiry into the identities of people investing in put stocks the
story was suddenly dropped. Very peculiar huh? I am sure if it was found
out that Al-Qaeda members made money on put stocks it would be front
page news. After all they and the Taliban were the ones in on this plot and
would be most likely to risk investing in put stocks. This is much the same
kind of thing that happened with the USS Liberty attacks and the Lavon
Affair where no investigation was done and the stories suddenly dropped
from mainstream media. What’s common about those stories, which I
suspect is common about the put stocks, is that besides the CIA, Israelis were
involved. Very suspicious isn’t it and I ask the same question as Michael
Page 71 of 226
Shore below:
where these trades were made and find out who made them. This is
probably the closest link that can be established to someone who was
involved in 9/11 but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this.
Why?
Quote:
Your General Gul proof is inadmissible.

It's a UseNet posting.
ISI links to Al-Qaida and the Taliban are well documented.
Even if he did say this, no doubt it's to cover his own ass.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I am not saying or denying that the

contents of General Gul’s statements are true. The point that I want you to
admit is whether or not he made those statements. It was a UPI story or do
you not trust UPI also? What is it about UseNet that repulses you? Hey, I am
not saying that it proves anything just whether or not you believe General
Gul made those statements.
Quote:
What did the 5 people do?

Did they bring the towers down by remote?
Were they there to make sure it went down?
What was their purpose
All excellent questions! The only thing I want from you is whether or not the
stories reported about them on ABC 20/20, the Bergen Record and other
sources were true.

Page 72 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
You have a lot of circumstantial evidence...yet no hard proof of forewarning.

Why were just Israelis, and not all Jews, forewarned?
I do have hard proof which was written about in the Ha’aertz and
Washington Post newspapers of Israelis being warned two hours before 9/11
actually took place. Regarding why just Israelis and not all Jews were
warned, you may want to ask that of whomever it was that sent the Odigo
warnings to the Israelis.
If you go to the following link:

The last paragraph states the following:
Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said
Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the
law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of
the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider,
and the actual sender of the original message.
Was the original sender found or did the focus on this just drop out of site as
all stories involving Israeli treachery does in our Zionist controlled media?
Don’t you think that knowing the source for the Odigo warnings is important
information? If you are really interested in knowing why only Israelis and
not American Jews were warned you should track this story down and do
some research into who sent the Odigo messages. Maybe then you will get an
answer.
Quote:
Page 73 of 226
How could 4000 people kept quiet about an advance warning?
It's impossible for 4000 people to not talk about an advance warning for 1
and a half years.
4000 people for one and a half years? That is nothing my man. Try millions of
Jews for hundreds of years! They have lived among Gentiles for hundreds of
years and have kept the following secrets:
1. What the Talmud teaches about Gentiles.

2. That only Jews can have a godly soul whereas non-Jews cannot --
according to their Kabala. That is why Jews are true Jews only if their
mothers are Jews. The godly soul can only be inherited through the mother.
3. That the majority of “Jews” who immigrated to Israel are Khazars and
have no blood or historic relations to the original 12 tribes of Israel. They are
actually Caucasians who converted to Judaism in between the 6th and 7th
century. As such their claim to Israel being given to them by God in the Bible
is false.
How many Gentiles know these things????
Only a few out of the millions let the secret out. Brave Jews like Arthur
Koestler, who wrote the book The Thirteenth Tribe to expose the Khazar
history of the European Jews paid for it with his life and the life of his wife.
Also people like Benjamin Freedman, Ralph Schoenman, Maya Schone,
Norman Finkelstein and others are bravely exposing truths about the
holocaust and the other secrets of the transgressions of the Jahcubites. Oh,
and Israel Shahak who did nothing more than translate the Jewish
newspapers in Hebrew written in Israel into English so that English speaking
people can know what Jews are saying to each other at a time when there
was a blackout of the truth about Israel and the Palestinians in the U.S.
Although Jews lie to Gentiles they often tell the truth to each other. Professor
Israel Shahak was persecuted for his translations while there were millions
who knew the truth and kept it a secret from the Gentiles for several years.
4000 for one and a half years? Please, give me a break!!!!
Page 74 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
What does Mexico have to do with 9/11?
The real question is what would have happened if the Israelis succeeded in
blowing up the Mexican Congress? This would have been another act
blamed on Al-Qaeda and Muslim terrorists. It just so happen that the Israelis
were caught and found to be members of the Mossad. As in the Lavon Affair
and the USS Liberty event this serves as more consistent evidence to show
the pattern of Mossad deception even after 9/11. As usual the media buried
this story and the Israelis were quickly deported to Israel. Oh boy what a
party the media would have had if these men were Muslims.
Quote:
Is Vreeland Mossad?
Was he involved in the attack?
Along with the CIA director that made a killing on put stocks, General Gul’s
admission about Mossad involvement, Vreeland as a member of the
intelligence community knew about 9/11 and proved it. This proves without
a doubt that the CIA knew about the attacks before they happened. If that’s
true then the 20,000 Afghans who were killed as a result 9/11, actually was
Page 75 of 226
murder of innocent people who were set up by those who were truly guilty.
Vreeland was not a high ranking member of the intelligence community and
he knew. From that alone I bet that many more CIA members knew. I find
the following interesting and wonder if there is any connection:
Quote:
On August 11 or 12 of 2001, the date is uncertain, after trying to verbally alert

his Canadian jailers to the coming World Trade Center attacks, he wrote
down key information and sealed it in an envelope which he then had placed
in the jailers' custody. This event is not disputed by Canadian authorities.
The letter specifically listed a number of targets including The Sears Towers,
The World Trade Center, The White House, The Pentagon, The World Bank,
The Canadian parliament building in Ottawa and the Royal Bank in Toronto.
A chilling sentence follows the list of targets, "Let one happen. Stop the
rest!!!"
When the envelope was opened on September 14th it set off alarms in the US
and Canada...
Could this be related to:
MORE SUSPICIOUS ISRAELI "MOVERS" DETAINED WITH DETAILED

VIDEO OF SEARS TOWER
SOURCE: THE MERCURY (PHILADEPHIA AREA NEWSPAPER),

POTTSTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA
www.zwire.com/site/mercury_101801.html
MICHELLE MOWAD, Special to The Mercury, October 17, 2001

PLYMOUTH (PA) -- Two men whom police described as Middle Eastern
were detained in the township by federal immigration authorities after being
found with detailed video footage of the Sears Tower in Chicago.
Plymouth Police encountered the men after an officer responded to Pizzeria

Uno on West Ridge Pike at 2:40 p.m. Thursday for a report of illegal
dumping.
Page 76 of 226
A manager there advised the police officer that a tractor-trailer was observed
backed up to the dumpster at the rear of the restaurant. The manager noticed
a freshly dumped pile of furniture adjacent to the Dumpster, according to
police. The manager confronted the vehicle's operator, a Middle Eastern man,
police said.
The man, who later identified himself as Moshe Elmakias, 30, denied that he
did anything and fled the scene, heading west on West Ridge Pike... The
manager was able to provide township police with the Florida registration
number of the tractor-trailer and said that a sign posted on the side of the
vehicle read "Moving Systems Incorporated" police said…

{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
The classification of information also falls squarely into my thesis:

-that the CIA is hiding foreknowledge of a terrorist attack, and is trying hide
its long relationship with Islamic radicals.
Your thesis based on your opening sentence was:

Quote:
I hold that the Mossad did not commit the terrorist acts against the USA on
9/11.
I personally feel that they had been tracking the actual terrorists, and had
Page 77 of 226
some knowledge (the depth of which we certainly don't know today) that a
strike was in the works.
You said nothing about the CIA. But granted I think this is something we
have partial agreement on because my thesis is that there is enough evidence
to show that the Mossad and crooked elements in our government were
involved with 9/11.

{Ansar Wrote}
Based on your responses and non-responses I will go ahead and answer my

original questions to you. If I am wrong about your answer to any of these
questions please provide proof correcting my statements and show source.
WTC was burning and going down in a rubble. (true)
(true)
3. The owner of the company Dominik Suter immediately fled to Israel (true)
Israelis failed the lie detector tests. (true but it was only one who waited
several weeks)
5. Under suspicious circumstances the Israelis were deported to Israel (true)
banking and stock trading. There were several Israeli firms at the WTC. (true)
to be working in the WTC area. (true)
Page 78 of 226
WTC attack 2 hours before it happened. (true)
deaths. (true)
they believe this spy ring (art students) had something to do with 9/11. (true)
11. In the van belonging to Urban Moving Systems maps were found that the
FBI says showed the Israelis had a definite involvement with 9/11. (true)
Mexican congress. (true)
been? Will that also be hushed up in
the investigation, like the Warren report after the Kennedy
assassination? (Likely but you don’t accept the source)
name of Vreeland who was imprisoned in Canada. (true)
15.The Washington Times ran a story on September 10, 2001 about a 68-page
make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act." (true)
Page 79 of 226
as a result of put stocks. Many of them were Israelis. (true)
denied having anything to do with 9/11? (true)

Edited by ansar on 03/17/03 05:09 AM.
{Ansar Wrote}
While waiting on your response TC, I would like to go ahead by debunking
some of the popular myths about 9/11. I will start with excerpts from an
article written by Michael Shore in Jerusalem on January 1, 2002 titled, A
View From Jerusalem, Israel.
Quote:
There are so many amazing possibilities to the true story of what really
happened and who is the real mastermind behind 9/11, that some sort of
independent peoples' committee (like that which revealed the TWA 800
cover-up - ed) should be set up to investigate all the facts and questions that
have never been answered since the horrific attacks on 9/11. This peoples'
committee could be made up of intelligent independent citizens who have no
connection to anyone in the U.S. government. Here is a list of some of the
questions that might be answered with such an inquiry.
2. It was reported that none of the names of the so-called Arab terrorists were
on any of the passenger lists of any of the four planes involved in 9/11. Plus,
the FBI and CIA with all their multi-billion dollar budgets claimed that they
had no prior information that a "terrorist" act of this magnitude was about to
happen. Yet within 48 hours, the FBI and CIA somehow managed to produce
the pictures and names of 19 Arabs who were supposedly the "terrorists" on
the planes, even though none of their names were on ANY of the passenger
lists. How did they know? Just because you had an Arab name, they were
able to determine that you were a "terrorist" on the planes? Plus, you may
recall, when the names of the "terrorists" were first released to the press,
Page 80 of 226
there were reports in the media that some of the passports which the
"terrorists" were using may have been stolen and the real names of the
"terrorists" may have been different than the names released to the media.
3. It was reported that a number of passengers were able to make cell phone
calls from the planes that were supposedly hijacked. You'll see why I used
the term "supposedly hijacked" in number 4. It was also reported by some
sources that these reported cell calls never showed up on the cell phone
company billings. Why are hijackers letting anyone on the planes make cell
phone calls to people on the ground? Can you remember any other hijacked
airplane incident where people were making cell phone calls? Can you easily
make cell phone calls from a plane that is 35,000 feet high and hundreds of
miles away from your cell phone provider?
It was reported that the black boxes from the planes, which record
conversations between the pilot and ground control, were all either
destroyed or the conversations on recovered black boxes could not be
released for some ridiculous reason. Number one, black boxes are built to
survive the worst fiery plane crashes. By not releasing the black box
communications and data, we cannot know what is really happening in the
cockpit or on the aircraft and who is flying those planes. Additionally, there
had to be some communication between the pilots and someone in the
control towers. Yet no air traffic controller was interviewed to talk about their
conversations with the pilots during the course of the "hijackings."
So, the only communication we are told about is some supposed cell phone
conversations of a few passengers and a flight attendant on the planes. The
only cockpit sounds that are released to the public are a few seconds of what
we are told is a scuffle between passengers and hijackers in the cockpit of
flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania. It is extremely important that any
black box communication between the pilots and ground control be heard, if
it still exists. This is probably the most important available part of the
mystery in the puzzle. (To date, FBI Director Mueller refuses to release black
box recordings saying they might impede the investigation and that they are
too horrible for people to hear, especially family members. -ed)
4. It was reported there is a new technology that currently exists called

onboard the UAV 'Global Hawk' platform. This technology was referred to
by President Bush immediately following the 9/11 tragedy. Bush said that in
Page 81 of 226
the future, we must strengthen the cockpit doors and further the
development of a new technology whereby a pilot on the ground can take
over the controls of a hijacked aircraft and fly the plane, and land the plane,
at a designated airport. Bush was referring to this technology being
developed sometime in the future when he knew that this technology has
been under development for many years and exists now!
In April 2001, a pilotless plane flew from the US to Australia and back to the
U.S. Boeing has under development a pilotless fighter plane, whose final test
was set for December 2001. With these new planes, you won't have to have
live fighter pilots risking their lives in war. Plus it will save huge amounts of
money training fighter pilots, which currently costs two to three million
dollars, each pilot. So what does all this mean?
It means that the "Global Hawk" pilotless plane technology that Bush
talked about already exists and could have been used in the 9/11 events.
Guess how many planes one trained pilot can fly sitting in front of his
computer screens? Four. How many planes were involved in 9/11? Four.
And according to a conference of professional commercial airline pilots,
the supposed Arab "hijackers" could not have flown those planes at all, or
as well as they were flown, if they only attended the flight schools that
were reported in the news.
So, let's look at how all the above could might into play. None of the
supposed Arab "terrorist" names were on any of the passenger flight lists and
the U.S. government, within 48 hours, shows us pictures of 19 Arab
"terrorists" - even though the FBI and CIA said they had no prior information
that the 9/11 event could happen. You really don't need any live pilots in the
cockpit to fly any of the four planes. They could all be flown by one very
well-trained pilot using Global Hawk technology from somewhere on the
ground.
Therefore, the 19 Arab "hijackers" didn't even need to board the planes. You
didn't even need "hijackers." All you need is 'Global Hawk' technology to
take over control of the aircraft from the ground. By the US government
refusing to release any of the pilot-to-ground control communication from
the (allegedly destroyed) black boxes in the aircraft, the US government
blacks out any conversation from the "hijacked" airline pilots possibly telling
the control tower that the flight controls of their planes had been taken over.
Page 82 of 226
You might ask, what happened to the fourth plane, Flight 93? According to
one theory, Global Hawk technology malfunctioned on Flight 93. Somehow
the pilots onboard were able to regain control of their aircraft. If Flight 93
lands safely on the ground, the secret of what was really happening on all
four planes would be revealed. A back-up plan had to be implemented.
Flight 93 was then supposedly shot down by a US military jets. There are
verifiable facts to substantiate this possibility. There were a number of eye
witnesses who claimed to have seen flight 93 explode before it fell to the
ground. These eye witnesses also saw a military jet in the sky near the crash
site. Plus, there were reports of a small white private plane circling the crash
site immediately after the crash - even though all private aircraft were
supposed to be grounded at the time. Aircraft debris from flight 93 was
strewn over an area six to eight miles from the crash site, which would be
impossible, if as the government said that some passengers fought with the
hijackers and intentionally crashed the plane to prevent the plane from
hitting another terrorist target. Explaining how metal parts and other debris
flew through the air and landed six to eight miles from the crash site, without
there being an explosion in the air before the plane crashed to the ground,
would be very hard for the government to do...Plus if the passengers did
overtake the hijackers, why would they want to crash the plane? Couldn't the
real flight 93 pilots fly the plane and land it safely?
Now comes the hero story from the government. This story is used to supply
all the answers to all the questions about what happened on Flight 93 and to
avoid any further inquiry by a gullible American public that accepts most
anything their government officials say is truth. As George Bush, Sr. was
quoted as saying: "Don't confuse people with the truth."
5. No US military planes were sent up to intercept any of the hijacked planes

even though there were at least 30 minutes to one hour from the time it was
known that the planes were hijacked. Much has been written about this by
the alternative free press on the internet. It is standard procedure for military
planes to be sent up if a plane is off course and the plane is not or cannot
communicate with ground control. This is just normal safety protocol
because if a plane starts flying in a different flight pattern, it could crash into
another plane in the sky. The big question is who gave the order to not
"scramble" US military jets under these emergency and highly-dangerous
Page 83 of 226
conditions? If you think Bin Laden could have done this sitting in some cave
in Afghanistan - think again. The only people who could have pulled this one
off are high-ranking government officials who were part of the plan of the
real "Mastermind" behind the attacks.

{Ansar Wrote}
More Debunking!
http://www.sumeria.net/politics/bushknew/milschool.html
Air Force Officer Disciplined for Saying
Bush Allowed September 11 Attacks
Hijacker Attended US military School
By Jerry Isaacs
21 June 2002
A US Air Force officer in California recently accused President Bush of

deliberately allowing the September 11 terror attacks to take place. The
officer has been relieved of his command and faces further discipline. The
controversy surrounding Lt. Col. Steve Butler's letter to the editor, in which
he affirmed that Bush did nothing to warn the American people because he
"needed this war on terrorism," received scant coverage in the media.
Universally ignored by the press, however, was that the officer was not
merely expressing a personal opinion. He was in a position to have direct
knowledge of contacts between the US military and some of the hijackers in
the period before the terrorist attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center
and damaged the Pentagon.
Page 84 of 226
Lieutenant Colonel Butler, who wrote in a letter to the editor of the Monterey
County Herald charging that "Bush knew about the impending attacks," was
vice chancellor for student affairs at the Defense Language Institute in
Monterey, California - a US military facility that one or more of the hijackers
reportedly attended during the 1990s.
In his May 26 letter to the newspaper, Butler responded to Bush supporters,

who had written the paper opposing the congressional investigation into the
September 11 events. He wrote:
"Of course President Bush knew about the impending attacks on America. He
did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on
terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. His presidency
was going nowhere. He wasn't elected by the American people, but placed in
the Oval Office by a conservative supreme court. The economy was sliding
into the usual Republican pits and he needed something on which to hang
his presidency.... This guy is a joke. What is sleazy and contemptible is the
President of the United States not telling the American people what he
knows for political gain."
The letter provoked immediate retaliation against the 24-year Air Force
veteran. Butler was transferred from the Monterey installation and
threatened with court martial under Article 88 of the military code, which
prohibits officers from publicly using "contemptuous words" against the
president and other officials.

{Ansar Wrote}
Slam Dunk Debunking!
The latest information to come out is that Stanley Hilton who was Bob Dole's
Page 85 of 226
Chief of Staff, a Harvard Graduate and schoolmate of Paul Wolfowitz is
representing 400 families suing Bush for Engineering 9/11. This ain't no pie in
the sky empty headed light weight. This was a key leader of the Republican
Party making these claims. The lawsuit was filed last May and Mr. Hilton
claims that he has definite evidence showing that the Bush Cabal Engineered
9/11. I will post part of the interview below but when you read it lo and
behold guess which country's secret service agency is mentioned. No,
dummy not Iraq's! No, not Iran's! I will give you one more try. Gee whiz get
a brain in your head it is not North Korea! It is the Mossad. The following is a
brief excerpt from the interview but the whole interview can be found here
Quote:
Alex Jones Radio Show

Interview of Stanley Hilton
March 11, 2003
AJ: He has a busy schedule. He’s been in court, all last week and all this
week. We had him on about a year ago. He’s Stanley Hilton. He was brutally
attacked by the big government pimps Hannity and Colmes. He was a senior
advisor for Bob Dole, counsel for Bob Dole and others in the Republican
Party. He’s an expert on government-sponsored terrorism and has written a
book about it, throughout history. And he now has new revelations never
before revealed from his depositions of witnesses involved in and around
9/11. He represents over 400 of the victims of 9/11’s families and he has been
given almost no attention. While some of the other groups headed by well-
known PR bureaucrats, we’ve had them on the show, as well, are trying to
suppress this information. Joining us is Stanley Hilton. We are honored to
have you on the show Stanley.
SH: Glad to be here.
AJ: Tell us just a little bit about yourself, your lawsuit; recap what we
covered last year and in the last year. Tell us what’s developed with the
lawsuit and the new revelations that you told me about on the phone.
SH: Well, we filed the lawsuit last May against Bush and Cheney and
Rumsfeld and several other of the rest of the terrorists that run the U.S.
Page 86 of 226
government for complicity in causing and also in aiding and abetting the 9/11
attacks, in order to promote their political agenda. And, we are in the
process, you know these lawsuits, they come and they go in terms of level of
activity. And most of it is done, you know, in confidential, called discovery,
litigation that is depositions under oath, battles in court to get documents.
We are facing very strong resistance from the government. They are claiming
national security over everything. They claim they don’t want to release
documents, etc. But I represent the people who were victimized by what the
government did. I’m also challenging the constitutionality of the so-called
USA PATRIOT Act, they call it; the anti-patriot act is what I call it. And
Patriot Act I and II, with II in the wings, which the government plans to
introduce this year, which will be even more severe than Patriot Act I. And
this new one, Patriot Act II, they are going to give Bush the right to declare
any American citizen a “enemy combatant” arbitrarily. And then take away
your citizenship. This will give the government the power to literally strip
any American of citizenship if Bush says you’re an enemy combatant, i.e.:
political opponent of the government. So anyway, we saw some very
interesting documents and memoranda, including several of those advisors
around Bush, namely Wolfowitz, Wormser, Feith, Perle, the rest of them.
And they actually wrote these memos several months before 9/11, in which
they fervently wished for a “Pearl Harbor type incident” to give them the
shock value that would enable them to ramp through their agenda.
AJ: And this you told me last week before this was on ABC News that you
have gotten some of this information through depositions and some other
little tidbits that haven’t been disclosed. But also, you talked about how you
deposed; you got the marriage certificates, the evidence, and the photographs
– a woman who was married to one of the hijackers. You talked to what you
said were six or eight people who were connected to them. And then we
have the news articles where the FBI gave them homes, paid their rent,
followed them around. We know Israel was involved in similar things. Can
you speak to that please?
SH: Yes, I do have a witness who was married, she’s an American woman,
but she was married to one of the hijackers and she knew about seven of
them. She met seven of them. Essentially these Arab hijackers were double
agents. That is, they were operating inside the U.S. for ten to fifteen years in
“cells”. Some of them used the term al Qaeda, they’ve used other terms. Al
Qaeda is just a word. That means nothing. You could call them the Muslim
Page 87 of 226
Brotherhood, the Army of God; they go by all sorts of names. But what they
are is a series of cells that have been aided and abetted by the U.S.
Government. This woman was involved also, married to him at the time of
the 1993 World Trade Center first bombing and the Oklahoma City bombing
when her “ex-husband” actually traveled to Oklahoma City several weeks
before the bombings. And they were involved, apparently, in that.
But what we have here is double agents. In that they nominally appear to
be Arab fanatics. But one of the points that she stressed is they are really
not Muslims. They are more interested in Playboy than in the Koran. I
mean these people drink. They are very secular. They are not the fanatical
Muslim zealots that the Bush criminals would lead us to believe is what’s
operating here. What they are is they receive regular payments from the U.S.
Government. They have been recruited by the CIA, FBI, counter-intelligence,
and so-forth and paid money and allowed to exchange information with U.S.
government agents about various activities going on and....
AJ: Let me stop you right there Mr. Hilton. Everything you said was already
backed up by mainstream reports. You’ve gotten it now, in sworn testimony
in depositions under oath. But something that everybody wants to ignore is
that three of the hijackers, at least, were trained at Pensacola Naval Air
Station not at a local airfield – on the base, by the government, at least. Now
we find out that eight of the hijackers under names we heard are still alive in
the Middle East, on television doing interviews. You know, their faces, their
names, same people. We have then Mohamed Atta being sent over to the
Defense Language School at Monterrey. You talked to Steven Butler.
SH: Yeah........
Please click on the link above and read the whole thing. Believe me it is well
worth it for EVERY American to do!

Page 88 of 226
{Ansar Wrote}
Pouring Salt In the Wound Debunking!
Quote:
The Magic Passport Theory.

We can now add Mohamed Atta's reality-defying passport to the Arlen
Specter Gallery of Improbable Projectiles. This incriminating item was
thrown intact from a cataclysmic fireball and miraculously plucked from 1.6
million tons of debris in a matter of hours. The corporate media rarely
mention the unlikelihood of this. Many in the alternative press, though, are
unafraid to draw an obvious, albeit taboo, inference: that the Atta passport is
planted evidence. According to Washington, DC, peace activist John Judge,
other potential plants include the Arabic-language flight manuals left in one
of the hijackers' cars (with note: The discussion of the flight manuals begins
at around 13:30). These manuals could serve no useful purpose at such a late
stage unless the hijackers planned to finish learning how to fly during a half-
hour ride to the airport. But as deliberately placed articles, they are as if a
signed diary called "My Plan to Kill the President" had been unearthed in Lee
Harvey Oswald's flat. Also high on the possible planted evidence list is a
spiritual manifesto for the Al Qaeda kamikaze pilots, which, to journalist
Robert Fisk, sounds an awful lot like it was written by a God-fearing
Christian.
An About Face Debunking!
Quote:
Former South African resistance leader and President, Nelson Mandela,

announced a high-profile and deeply considered "about-face on bin Laden,"
reported first on South Africa's News24 television on New Year's Day.
Page 89 of 226
Mandela repudiated and apologized for his former, controversial statement
holding Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda responsible for the attacks, as "one-
sided and over-stated." He said he would be arranging meetings with
Muslim leaders in South Africa to personally convey this message"called by
News24 a "highly unusual" reversal of view by the most widely respected of
African leaders. "We are also writing to President Bush," Mandela
announced, "to appropriately qualify the view we previously expressed to
him in person and in correspondence.

{Ansar Wrote}
The Real Reasons For 9/11 Debunking!
Quote:
According to people like Dick Eastman and others there were four goals that
the 9/11 attacks were meant to accomplish. The four goals were:
1. Gain control of $6 trillion worth of oil and natural gas in central Asia. This
oil is associated with the Caspian Sea and the countries surrounding it where
pipelines are to be laid.
2. Win back support for the increasingly unpopular Sharonist policies in

Israel and provide a basis for a mass invasion of occupied Palestine.
3. Allow certain people to profit from the opium trade of the Northern
Alliance drug lords and the money-laundering through global investment
channels that the opium trade and the derivative heroin trade supports. If
Page 90 of 226
you noticed that during the rule of the Taliban the opium trade nearly
disappeared. As soon as the Northern Alliance were put back into power the
trade picked up again.
4. Clear people arraigned before a grand jury on charges of fixing gold prices,
illegal involvement in oil swaps between Kazakhstan and (sanctioned) Iran,
and bribery in cases where all incriminating documentary evidence was
stored in FBI files and data banks in one of the twin towers of the WTC.
I want to add a fifth goal that was not mentioned:
5. Start a war between Christianity and Islam by blaming the religion of

Islam for the 9/11 incident and terrorist acts throughout the world.
Analysis:
With the placement of the puppet government in Afghanistan and ex-Unocal

Adviser Hamid Karzi as head, with U.S. troops firmly in place in Central
Asian countries like Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Republic of
Georgia and others, with the American people giving Bush the green light for
a "war on terrorism" which is really a war for oil I would say that goal
number one is accomplished and is successfully being exploited. Bush's "oil
patch" people like Condoleeza Rice, Cheney, and Khalilzad are poised and
ready to go after the multi-trillion dollar deal. So on a whole, goal one is
proceeding with success.
Goals 3 and 4 are also successful. Opium production has increased as a result
of eliminating the Taliban and Alan Greenspan and others are not being
implicated for any money scams. Recently it has been reported that
Afghanistan has recaptured the title as the world's number one Opium
producer. Goal 2 although accomplished did not achieve the results
expected.
Yes...under the pretense of fighting terrorism, the Israelis were able to

conduct a mass invasion into Palestinian villages. This was their payment for
the role they played in helping to ignite the 9/11 attacks that triggered and
gave the justification for all of the four goals above to be acted upon. Let's not
forget also the role they played in controlling the media to keep the finger
pointed at Bin Laden and not allow any intelligent scrutinization to go on.
Page 91 of 226
The fallout the Israelis are receiving may be less than what was expected by
them. They felt that the 9/11 attacks would so enrage Americans and the
world that everyone will be in an uproar and would support whatever
heinous actions the Israelis would do against the Palestinian "terrorists."
Except for the Christian Zionists and ignorant, uninformed Americans the
world has joined in unison to condemn them. In the court of world opinion
the Israelis are no better off today than they were before the 9/11 attacks and
the condemnation in Durban, South Africa of Zionism as racism. So yes they
got their invasion into the Palestinian territory but they are still seen as being
ugly to the rest of the world.
Goal number 5 is actively being pursued. Christian Zionists and members in

government has openly declared Islam as the enemy. They have started a
huge smear campaign in print and in the media to discredit the Quran,
Prophet Muhammad and all Muslims. They have even openly admitted that
they will also lie to accomplish their goals. Innocent Muslims are being
harassed and locked up for no reason under the powers granted by the
Patriot Act. Warlike declarations from leaders in religion and government are
being made against Muslims and Muslim nations. Lately one of the leading
Preachers in Christianity has publicly called the Prophet of Islam a terrorist.
Despite the huge onslaught on Islam, the religion continues to grow. It is the
fastest growing religion in the world and since 9/11 it has experienced the
largest number of conversions to Islam in the history of the religion in the
U.S. Thomas Jefferson, one of America's founding fathers and considered to
be the leader among them, publicly declared and it is documented, that he
was well acquainted with the Quran and that he wanted Muslims to be a part
of the new nation. Although he has gotten his wish the majority of
Americans are still very ignorant of the Quran and Islam.
Despite the numerous violations of UN resolutions by Israel and the

confirmed presence of weapons of mass destruction the country being
threatened with war is Iraq. The UN has agreed on the conditions required
by Iraq when Inspectors are sent in. These conditions by the way are
deliberately set up to humiliate Iraq and assure their non-compliance so that
war will be inevitable. Iraq is in a position of "damned if you do and damned
if you don't". The smear campaign against Muslims and their religion by the
mainstream media has successfully demonized Arabs and Muslims. When
thousands are killed by the American onslaught in Iraq the American public
has already been de-sensitized to feel no sympathy for the innocent lives lost.
Page 92 of 226
The average American will view the massacres as necessary killings of
"Moslem terrorists".
Along with the above there is also the request for inquiry into the 9/11 attacks
by Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney from Georgia. She claims that
corporations close to the Bush administration like the Carlyle Group, may
have benefited from the 9/11 attacks and Bush's "never ending war on
terrorism". Bush's father is a member of the Carlyle Group and among other
things the Carlyle Group is in the weapons industry. As a result of her
request for an "inquiry" she has come under the most vehement attacks from
Government figures and the press. But surprisingly a lot of people have come
to her aid. But alas she was defeated in her bid for re-election last August by
her AIPAC supported opponent. So as a present brave voice in government,
hers has been stilled.
The past developments implicating Bush having prior knowledge of the 9/11
attacks is very interesting. I agree with many that this may be a black mail
scare tactic by the Jews against Bush. Although quite complacent with most
of their plans, Bush may not have been complacent with ALL of the Israeli
plans. We also see that after his last speech blaming the Palestinians and
demanding a new leader that the "noise" about Bush's involvement with 9/11
died out. This has played out very well for Bush. He is portrayed in the most
positive way in the media and indeed he is considered to be a very popular
president. The November wins by a majority of Republicans are being
credited by many to Bush. It seems that as long as Bush follows the whims of
his Israeli masters things will go well for him and the Republican party.

Page 93 of 226
Wow!
Still absolutely nothing about the terrorist attack except that it was done by
remote control!
Are you gonna give us a timeline on what happened that day or not?
Mellish)
4,000 Israelis did not work in the WTC.....it was the estimated amount of
Israelis in the general vicinity.
Mellish)
If true about the stocks, since it hasn't been verified, how does this tell us that
the Mossad committed the acts, when it seems to implicate not them, but the
CIA?
As for your general, he is not an objective source, even if he did say that,
since he's ISI.
Page 94 of 226
We all know the ISI's relations to Al-Qaida and the Taliban.
His words are for public consumption to protect the ISI, and by accusing
others, he only placates his constituency.
Mellish)
This post is completely worthless since it's full of hysterical conjecture

worthy of a teenager.
4,000 people can't keep a secret.
It's ridiculous.
Mellish)
No, the question is what does it have to do with 9/11?
Again, you go off on a tangent, relying on a notorious anti-Jew site.
Page 95 of 226
Mellish)
Quote:
Along with the CIA director that made a killing on put stocks, General Gul’s
admission about Mossad involvement, Vreeland as a member of the
intelligence community knew about 9/11 and proved it. This proves without
a doubt that the CIA knew about the attacks before they happened. If that’s
true the 20,000 Afghans who were killed for 9/11 was murder of innocent
people who were set up by those who were truly guilty. Vreeland was not a
high ranking member of the intelligence community and he knew. From that
alone I bet that many more CIA members knew. I find the following
interesting and wonder if there is any connection:
Complete and utter crap!
Since when is the ISI to be trusted as an objective source?
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
In all your responses I see nothing but condemnation and judgment calls. No
shred of information old or new to combat any of the painstaking detailed
information I presented. I provided mainstream sources for the information I
Page 96 of 226
presented and you have yet to present another source other than the bogus
one calling the 4000 number a hoax.
Is this a debate or just a battering of your judgment on my presentations?

Please provide information. Please provide source to refute at least one of my
arguments. This is not a competition to see who can cuss each other best.

{Ansar Wrote}
I repeat the following assumptions. Please point out by number which

ones you disagree with. If you don't I will assume that you accept my
estimation of what you think. I will give you as much time as you need.
But if I don't hear back from you by end of today I will summarize and
conclude my argument.

(true)
several weeks)
Page 97 of 226
deaths. (true)
showed the Israelis had a definite involvement with 9/11. (true)
Page 98 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: graybeard, Fletch, Voegelin, Kudzu, RidinShotgun, Nanette,

WholeTruth123, OneChopStick, bluegrass, AbeFoxmann, texoma, LaDonna,
Fred25, ExiledInTaiwan, hoplophile, The_Janissary, Judson,
windrivershoshoni
Quote:
Complete and utter crap!
This post is completely worthless since it's full of hysterical conjecture

worthy of a teenager.
4,000 people can't keep a secret.
It's ridiculous.
Page 99 of 226
Again, you go off on a tangent, relying on a notorious anti-Jew site.
After one full day of no response is this the best you can do or is this tactic
from your book of tricks? When you have nothing of substance to bring to
the debate, squeal like a pig!!! (BTW, what is a notorious anti-Jew site?)
Well for someone squealing so loud where is your proof to back up what you
say or are we just supposed to believe your statements because you said so.
Prove that it is utter crap, ridiculous, etc. Show us your research and
scholarly insights that could refute my arguments. Of course you don’t have
anything so squealing like a pig is all you are left with. I am impressed and it
only took you a whole day to come up with that.
Quote:
Wow!
Still absolutely nothing about the terrorist attack except that it was done by
remote control!
Are you gonna give us a timeline on what happened that day or not?
Please! Give up trying to dictate how I should present my case. Rather focus
on doing some research to prove me wrong. But again when you have
nothing you grab at straws!

Page 100 of 226

Ansar, I'll make it simple.
It's up to you to prove that the Mossad committed the acts on 9/11.
It's not up to me to prove that someone else did.
So, to prove that they did, please give us a timeline of what happened that
day, how the acts were committed, and who committed them.
You said the Mossad did it, so prove it.
So far all we have are 5 Israelis from an Israeli moving company that were
caught cheering the towers coming down.
That's it.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
So far all we have are 5 Israelis from an Israeli moving company that were
caught cheering the towers coming down.
That's it.
Page 101 of 226

Boy you are selective! I must have missed something but I don't remember
you disproving any of the 17 facts that I presented nor any of the information
I presented thus far. But I give you credit that is a lot better than pig
squealing.
I give you the all time record for avoiding the issue and avoiding simple true
or false questions. What are you afraid of? If you want me to prove
something just answer true or false to the questions I am going to list. It ain't
going to hurt you. I will make it easy for you. For the facts I list you don't
have to refute all of them just half if you disagree. OK the number is 17, I
will make it 8 facts. Show me, and all who are watching, with convincing
knowledge that they are not true. If not, and all I get is more pig squealing
and dictates on how I should prove the point you want me to make, I will
take it as your acceptance of the facts I presented. It's time to put up or shut
up! The spot light is on you my friend. No refutation with facts and source
will mean that the facts I list are true. You have been dutifully notified.

{Ansar Wrote}

windrivershoshoni
For the umpteenth time, please answer. I will give you as much time as you
need.
Page 102 of 226

I repeat the following assumptions. Please point out by number which
ones you disagree with. If you don't I will assume that you accept my
estimation of what you think. I will give you as much time as you need.
But if I don't hear back from you by end of today I will summarize and
conclude my argument.

(true)
several weeks)
deaths. (true)
showed the Israelis had a definite involvement with 9/11. (true)
Page 103 of 226


Page 104 of 226

How's about addressing the actual events of the day?
How can you discuss 9/11 without discussing the planning, and the actions?
All you're doing is circling the actual events....
Flag me when you want to seriously discuss the actual events of 9/11.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Thanks for accepting the 17 facts I presented as true! I knew you couldn't
refute them. They were well presented and the sources quoted were
impeccable.
Before making my conclusions I want to include one more piece of evidence

to show Israel's role in spying on America and damaging America's interest
along with the complicity given to Israel even after the damaging facts about
what Israel has done is known:
Quote:
Israel: A nation that spies on America and sells our secrets to our worst
enemies
In the 1980s, Israel recruited an American Jew, Jonathan Pollard, to spy

against the United States. After his apprehension, Israeli officials at first
claimed he was a "rogue agent," but later they admitted that Pollard was
Page 105 of 226

working for them from the beginning. Other than the Jewish spies, Ethel and
Julius Rosenberg, who gave our atom bomb secrets to the Soviets, probably
no spies have ever done more damage to our country than that which was
done by this single Israeli spy: Jonathan Pollard.
Israel's use of Pollard's information not only destroyed our intelligence

operations in the Mideast; it practically destroyed our intelligence apparatus
in the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. Many of America's most loyal and
best agents in the Communist world were executed because Israel sold or
bartered Pollard's stolen information to the Soviets. Israel would not even
allow us to debrief the Mossad agents who handled the Pollard spying so as
to help determine the full extent of the damage done to the United States and
the dangers posed to American agents overseas.
Some of the enormously sensitive secrets stolen by Pollard may have been
either sold, or bartered, by Israel to the Soviet Union.
A number of key CIA agents in the East Bloc were allegedly executed as a
result of Pollard's spying. The KGB likely gained access to top-secret U.S.
codes - either directly from Israel, or through spies in Israel's government. In
short, Pollard's treachery caused one of the worst security disasters in
modern U.S. history…
So, Israel, which receives billions of American aid, has treacherously spied on
and harmed the very security of the United States. To further demonstrate
their contempt for us, they even bartered the top secret information they had
stolen from us – to America's worst enemies. Even after Israel's public
relations apologies for the Pollard spying, it has continued to spy on us. The
Los Angeles Times in 1997 reported that an American Jew named David A.
Tenenbaum “admitted to divulging secrets to Israel.”To quote the Los
Angeles Times, “A civilian engineer working at an Army command facility
near Detroit has admitted divulging classified military information to Israeli
officials over the last 10 years.”
Even after Israel proved its willingness to spy on us and critically damage
America’s intelligence operations, President Clinton appointed a dedicated,
Zionist Jew to Chairman of the National Security Council, the highest
intelligence position in the White House. Even the Israeli daily Maariv
referred to Berger as a “warm Jew,” meaning that he is devoted to Israel first.
Page 106 of 226

Appointing Berger as National Security Council chief after the Pollard Spy
Case is pure insanity.
The fact that Israel could commit these outrages against the United States
without suffering scathing media attacks or even the end of aid to Israel
shows their extreme power over us and the treason that reaches into the
highest echelons of the American establishment. It is no wonder that Ariel
Sharon could make the following statement to Simon Peres when he
suggested that Israel might lose American aid if it did not pull back recent
Israeli incursions. Sharon responded:
Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do
that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about
American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and
the Americans know it. ---Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001
It is not only Jonathan Pollard who has committed treason against America.
All those in the American government who would continue to monetarily
and militarily support a foreign nation that spies on us and severely damages
our intelligence operations (along with causing the deaths of American
agents) have committed treason against the United States of America. In
response to these ongoing acts of treachery against the United States, a truly
patriotic American Government would have (at the very least) ended our
support for Israel. Supporting a foreign nation after it willfully commits such
acts of treachery against America is nothing less than treason.

Page 107 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}

windrivershoshoni
I mentioned the following in my opening statement: The track record of the

Israelis in conducting terrorist activities and causing others to take the
blame as well as using the American media to shield their dirty deeds
should not be ignored.
The above post also mentioned: Even after Israel proved its willingness to
spy on us and critically damage America’s intelligence operations,
President Clinton appointed a dedicated, Zionist Jew to Chairman of the
National Security Council, the highest intelligence position in the White
House. Even the Israeli daily Maariv referred to Berger as a “warm Jew,”
meaning that he is devoted to Israel first. Appointing Berger as National
Security Council chief after the Pollard Spy Case is pure insanity.
The fact that Israel could commit these outrages against the United States
without suffering scathing media attacks or even the end of aid to Israel,
shows their extreme power over us and the treason that reaches into the
highest echelons of the American establishment…
Along with all the evidence presented showing Israeli Mossad spy activities
and “tie-ins” to 9/11 as so readily agreed to by thoughtcriminal, it must
boggle the mind as to how the Americans can be so docile and allow and
even reward Israel for its treacherous actions against the United States. Why
don’t the American people rise up and remove this cancer from their midst?
The reason why this don’t happen can also be seen in the time of Christ. One
word explains it. Propaganda. Through propaganda Jesus was crucified and
the masses of people were made to believe that he was an enemy and threat
to them. Today this same tactic is being used to keep the American people
docile and fully in support of Israel despite all the treacherous actions Israel
has taken against us. It’s like a one-two punch on the American people with
the second punch coming from the media to knock the American people’s
brains out. The ones who control the propaganda in the U.S. are the same
Page 108 of 226

Satanic Jews. Everything Americans see, hear and read is slanted. Important
news stories like the Israeli spies, the attempted blowing up of the Mexican
Congress, the put stock purchases and even historical truths like the Lavon
Affair and the USS Liberty attack are either dropped or slanted to keep the
real truth from getting to the American people. Who are these people in the
media controlling the information Americans are exposed to? Here is a
listing and from the names and positions they hold I am sure that you will
say, “yep I see why!”
Quote:
First of all, Sumner Redstone ( né Murray Rothstein) owns $8 billion dollars

worth of Viacom, which gives him the controlling interest in CBS, Viacom,
MTV
worldwide (Brian Graden, president), and most recently he bought Black
Entertainment Television and proceeded immediately to cut down its
public-affairs programming. The president of CBS is Leslie Moonves, the
great
nephew of David Ben-Gurion.
Michael Eisner is the major owner of Disney-Capitol Cities, which owns

ABC.
David Westin is the president of ABC News. Although it has lost viewers,
Nightline host Ted Koppel is a strong supporter of Israel. Lloyd Braun is
chair
of ABC Entertainment. And there is the perennial Barbara Walters.
Neil Shapiro is the president of NBC News. Jeffrey Zucker is the head of
NBC
Entertainment and Jack Myers has some important post there, as well.
Although Rupert Murdoch of Fox is not Jewish, Mel Karamazin, the

president of
the corporation is, as is Peter Chernin, the second in command at Murdoch's
News
Corps.
Sandy Grushow is chairman of Fox Entertainment, and Gail Berman is
Page 109 of 226

president.
Murtdoch has received numerous awards from various Jewish charities.
Jamie Kellner is chair and CEO of Turner Broadcasting.
Walter Issacson is the News Director of CNN which also has Wolf Blitzer,
host of
Late Edition, Larry King of Larry King Live, Paula Zahn, and Andrea
Koppel,
Ted's daughter.
Jordan Levin is chairman of Warner Bros. Entertainment.
Howard Stringer is chair of Sony Corp. of America.
Robert Sillerman is the founder of Clear Channel Communications,
Ivan Seidenberg is chair of Verizon Communications
Terry Semel, former co-chair of Warners is CEO of Yahoo.
Barry Diller, former owner of Universal Entertainment, is the chair of USA

Interactive.
Joel Klein is chair and CEO of Bertelsmann's American operations, the largest
publishing conglomerate in the world.
Mort Zuckerman, the Chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish

American Organizations, owns US News and World Report and the NY
Daily News.
Arthur Sulzberger, Jr. publishes the NY Times, the Boston Globe and a host
of
other publications.
Marty Peretz publishes the New Republic, which is unabashedly pro-Israel,

as is
Page 110 of 226

William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard.
Donald Graham, Jr. is the chair and CEO of Newsweek and the Washington
Post.
Michael Ledeen, of Iran-Contra fame, edits National Review.
Ron Rosenthal is the Managing Editor of the SF Chronicle and Phil Bronstein
is
the Executive Editor.
David Schneiderman owns the Village Voice and a number of other

"alternative"
weeklies.
Columnist William Safire, Tom Freidman, Charles Krauthammer, Richard

Cohen, Jeff
Jacoby, are among the most widely syndicated columnists.
There are a number of widely syndicated talk show hosts such as Michael
Savage
(ABC) on more than 100 stations, Michael Medved, 124 stations, and Dennis
Prager
who has an Israeli flag on his website. Others include Ron Owens, Ben
Wattenberg, and former ZOA official Jon Rothman, all in San Francisco on
ABC.
In Hollywood, which was founded by Jews, there is of course, Stephen

Spielberg,
David Geffen, and Jeffrey Kranzberg of DreamWorks, Eisner of Disney, Amy
Pascal,
chair of Columbia, and many, many more.
For the intellectuals, we have NPR, with pundit Daniel Schorr and weekend
hosts
Scott Simon and Liane Hansen, Robert Segal, Susan Stanberg, Eric Weiner,
Daniel
Lev, Linda Gradstein (a well-known speaker at pro-Israel events) covering
Jerusalem, Mike Schuster (whose soft-ball interview with Ariel Sharon after
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Sabra and Shatila should have brought him before the court of Hamarabi).
Brook
Gladstein.
And that's just for starters. From the boss to the delivery it's an impressive
list. While they certainly can't be put in the same box when it comes to Israel,
they more or less guarantee that there will be limits to any criticism they may
make of Israel".

No, I haven't accepted your facts as true.
Please present your case in its entirety, then I will rebut.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
You definitely have not proved my facts to be false!
Rebuttal...I will be glad to see that. I hope it will be with references and
legitimate sources and not just a bunch of pig squealing or believe it because
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"criminal with a thought" says so.

When you finish presenting your case that asserts that the Mossad committed
9/11, I will address your points.
When you lay out the events of the day, and conclude the whole thing, then I
will begun my rebuttal.
Mellish)
Ansar: who hijacked the planes?
How did they hijack them?
Page 113 of 226

Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Thoughtcriminal please! Let's don't play this childish game again. You have
not answer the same questions I have asked you for umpteenth times and
you truly believe I will reciprocate and answer yours. What world are you
living in my friend? I am fully capable of making my case without your
prodding. Just be patient!

So make your case.....
Discuss the actual events of that day.
If you show it was Mossad that committed the acts, I will graciously concede.
I'll be waiting.
Mellish)
Page 114 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}

windrivershoshoni
I stated the following in my opening statement: From the evidences I am

aware of I firmly believe that the Israelis and crooked elements in our
government engineered 9/11 to create a Pearl harbor type of event that
would benefit the American Israeli dupes and their Jewish masters. Not
only do I believe the Satanic Jews engineered 9/11 to be a Pearl Harbor type
of action to spawn the war on terrorism and the global aggression against
Iraq and the Muslim world, I also know from history that WW1 and WW2
were instigated by them through (1.) The Zimmerman Letter in WW1 and (2.)
the actual Pearl Harbor in 1941. Let’s look at the facts behind all these claims.
This will all fit in with my charge of a consistent history of the Jews using
treachery to get the Gentiles to go to war for them:
Marcus Eli Ravage the authentic Jewish Biographer for the Rothschild Family
wrote in an article in The Century Magazine, January 1928, volume 115, No.
3. pp 346-350 about the influence of the Jews on the gentiles:
Quote:
"We are intruders. We are disturbers. We are subverters. We have taken

your natural world, your ideals, your destiny, and played havoc with them.
We have been at the bottom of not merely the latest Great War [World War
One] but of nearly all your wars, not only of the Russian but of nearly
every other major revolution in your history. We have brought discord and
confusion and frustration into your personal and public life. We are still
doing it. No one can tell how long, we shall go on doing it."
This amounts to an admission. Now Mr. Ravage was no light weight. He was
the authentic Jewish Biographer for the most powerful financial dynasty in
Page 115 of 226

the world, the Rothschild. Was he making idle statements or was he boldly
exposing truth? To read the whole article you can go here. Let’s look at the
circumstances surrounding WW1 and WW2 to see if he was telling the truth.
I will start with WW1:
Quote:
“Zionist influence began to gain momentum during WWI in Europe. The first
two years of the war were basically a series of pitched battles with hardly any
movement by either side on the western front. The cost in lives and materiel
was staggering and both England and Germany were ready to negotiate a
peace treaty, Germany probably because of the cost; Britain because it was
losing. Up to that point, America was completely neutral, if not pro-German.
“Here, we must introduce Chaim Weizmann who ultimately became the first
president of Israel. He was born in Russia and emigrated to Britain where he
worked as a research chemist in Manchester on the synthesis of acetone,
apparently an important ingredient in the manufacture of explosives. He was
intelligent, a fanatical Zionist, witty and charming, and made many friends
amongst the elite, including CP Scott, the editor of the Manchester Guardian,
prime minister David Lloyd George and Sir Mark Sykes. In Chaim
Weizmann’s diary we find a statement indicating that in 1916, German
Zionist (some of whom were in high places in imperial Germany) had been
approached by the German government in the hope that they would serve as
intermediaries in peace negotiations with the British via the British Zionists.
Both the British and the Germans were tired of the war and it was actually
the Kaiser who put out peace feelers to the Allies. Preliminary contacts were
made but nothing came of them. At this time, some German Jews were
influential and powerful, and had been accepted into German society. In fact,
Germany was the first European country to give the Jews some degree of
civil rights back in the 1820s. Germany, at that time, had a liberal policy
towards Jewish immigration; they accepted thousands of eastern Jewish
(“Die Ostjuden”) from the pogroms in Poland and Russia.
“In 1914, the war began in Europe as a purely European affair between the
Central Powers (Germany, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and their side-kick,
the Ottoman empire) against the Allies – Britain, France and Russia; America
was not a party to the quarrel. By 1916, the cost in lives and material was
staggering and both sides were ready to negotiate a peace treaty.
Incidentally, not one Allied soldier fought on German soil until America
Page 116 of 226

entered the war. Up to that point, a peace-loving President Woodrow Wilson
was neutral and regarded the Germans as his friends…
“Clearly, America did not want any part of the European war, in spite of the
endless barrage of anti-German propaganda coming out of Britain and from
George Creel’s American propaganda apparatus, the CPI…
“At this point, Wilson had to contend with three factors, the growing
American anti-German frenzy being whipped up by George Creel and his
congeners, the increasing activity of German U-boats which were
indiscriminately sinking all ships which might be bringing supplies to a
beleaguered England, and the Mexican problem. The Germans did not want
to be entangled in a war with America and had made contingency plans for
that eventuality. In a cabinet meeting at Pless Castle on January 9th , 1917,
the German Chancellor had stated unequivocally that if the Kaiser command
that a ruthless U-boat war be launched, he, the Chancellor, would “endeavor
to succeed in keeping America out of it. “ But he was not sanguine: “We will
have to calculate upon America’s entrance into the war against us. “ And the
U-boats began to prowl the shipping lanes on the orders of the Kaiser while
American vessels foolishly ignored German warnings to avoid those lanes.
The Mexican dictator, Huerta, was a thorn in Wilson’s flesh – he was playing
the Germans against the Americans. Together with the Germans, he
broadcast ominous rumblings about the imminent involvement of Japan
which both Germany and Mexico felt would pose a grave threat to the
United States. This led the diplomatically inept president into the Veracruz
debacle which spurred the Germans further to arm Huerta, promising him
revenge for the American capture of Texas. Eighteen American sailors died
in the attack on Vera Cruz for no good reason, a tragedy which determined
Wilson yet more strongly to avoid war if possible.
“The reasons given for the entry of the United States into the war were that
two or three American lives were lost in the sinking of the S.S. Sussex, the act
itself being a contravention of international law. To this writer, it seems
hardly likely that the proto-pacifist, Woodrow Wilson, would declare war
over such an incident.
“What in fact precipitated American participation in the war was the

disclosure to the British in January 1917 of highly confidential, top-secret
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telegram, known as the “Zimmerman Telegram”, sent in an unbreakable
code by Arthur Zimmerman, the foreign secretary, from Berlin to Mexico.
It was purely a contingency step, seeking a Mexican alliance in the event
that America declared war on Germany. No more than that.
“Here, we must return to the Zionist movement. The sequence of events

seems to be as follows: Zionists (some of whom were in high places in
Imperial Germany) had been approached by the German government as
early as 1916 in the hope that they would serve as intermediaries in peace
negotiations with the British via the British Zionists. Both sides were aware
that the Zionists were still in close touch with one another even though their
countries were at war. People like Walther Rathenau, the industrialist, the
Warburgs, the biggest merchant bankers in Germany, the Rothschild,
Bleichroder, the banker to the Imperial Family, and the Balin family, owners
of two major steamship lines were all Jewish. Actually, they were culturally,
socially and intellectually more German than the Germans, a fact carefully
noted by the German intellectual elite and the Prussian Junkers. Their Jewish
lineage was a social blemish which could tactfully be overlooked when
necessary.
“Preliminary contacts were made between German and British Zionists, as

the Germans had requested, but the expected movement towards peace did
not emerge from those contacts but rather a move towards war. Since both
sides had wanted a peace treaty, this outcome was surprising and the reason
for this remained unknown until the Paris peace conference. What
apparently happened was that in January 1917, a German Zionist with access
to Zimmerman Telegram sent the un-coded, plain text to the British Zionists
who had easy access to the British prime minister David Lloyd George and
his close associates, C.P. Scott of the Manchester Guardian and Sir Mark
Sykes who were all fervent Zionists, having been converted to the idea by
Chaim Weizmann himself. At this point the British had still not decoded the
Zimmerman note. It seems likely that the British Zionists decided to
provide the prime minister with the decoded text of the Zimmerman Note
which the British could then send to the Americans. It would be
sufficiently inflammatory to compel Woodrow Wilson to declare war on
Germany, come to the rescue of Britain and ensure the defeat of the Kaiser.
But both the German and British Zionists wanted something in return – a
British promise to give them Palestine; there could be no other (or lesser)
motive for their betrayal of Imperial Germany.
Page 118 of 226

This promise would be in total agreement with British colonialist aims.
The British were informed of the existence of the Telegram late in January
1917 and within a couple of weeks, Weizmann submitted a memorandum
to Mark Sykes entitled outline of a Program for the Jewish Resettlement of
Palestine in Accordance with the Aspirations of the Zionist Movement. A
month later, the British Zionists met with members of the British
government and handed over the decoded Zimmerman Telegram after the
British had studied the Weizmann document and had agreed to issue a
declaration of support for the establishment of the Jewish state. Less than
two months after this meeting, on April 6th. 1917, President Wilson, after
consulting his closest advisors, including Justice Brandeis, declared war on
Germany.
On November 2nd, 1917, the Balfour Declarations was issued. In a letter to

Lord Rothschild. Lord Balfour wrote: “His Majesty’s Government view with
favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,
and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object…
provided that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and
religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” Within
days, Lloyd George ordered General Allenby to capture Palestine from the
Ottomans.
This sequence and timing of events is most suggestive. If indeed, as Barbara

Tuchman claims, the Allies had decoded the Zimmerman Note when it was
first transmitted, would the British not have sent a copy to Washington
immediately in January 1917 and provoked Wilson into declaring war much
earlier? That this didn’t happen suggests that Britain in fact had not decoded
the message and that the Zionists had held back the un-coded version until
after Weizmann had obtained the promise of Palestine from the British
government. Meanwhile, Wilson was well aware of the turmoil in Mexico-
President Carranza’s mob skirmishing with Pancho Villa’s mob while ex-
dictator Huerta still retained strong German support as the Imperial
government tried to embroil America in a war with Mexico and to lure Japan
into attacking lower California. Yet aside from a few minor incidents here
and there, Wilson had avoided involving the US in a fully-fledged war
against Mexico. And for well over a year, he had refused to declare war on
Germany in spite of repeated attacks on American shipping. Only after the
Zimmerman telegram was sent to Washington did he request Congress to
declare war on Imperial Germany.
Page 119 of 226

In the House of Commons, Winston Churchill, the colonial secretary in 1922,
hinted at the reason for Britain’s having issued the Balfour Declaration. He
said that it should not be thought that with the Balfour Declaration Britain
gave the Jews something and got nothing in return. Churchill doesn’t say
what it was that Britain got in return from the Jews but it must have been
something pretty important, if not vital, for Britain to risk its substantial
interest which depended on Arab goodwill. Lloyd George described the
Balfour Declaration as a thanks offering for Weizmann’s war efforts in the
production of acetone. To the logical reader, this seems a reward totally
disproportionate to Weizmann’s accomplishment. Would England have
given Bermuda to Watson and Crick for discovering the structure of DNA?
Would America have given Guam to Werner Von Braun for his great
contribution to the American space program? One has sought high and low
for a reasonable and logical explanation for the Balfour Declaration and the
sequence of events described above seems to be the most plausible.
From, “The Unholy Land” by Dr. Peter J. Kirsch

{Ansar Wrote}
Partial text of the Zimmerman Telegram
Quote:
Page 120 of 226

The note, dated January 19, 1917, reads, in part, as follows: "On the first of
February we intend to begin unrestricted submarine warfare. In spite of
this, it is our intention to Endeavour to keep the United States neutral. If
this attempt is not successful, we propose an alliance on the following
basis with Mexico: That we shall make war together and together make
peace....Please call to the attention of the President of Mexico that the
employment of ruthless submarine warfare now promises to compel
England to make peace in a few months"

{Ansar Wrote}
World War 2
This is from the article whose link is WW2 and written by Dr. Albert D
Pastore PhD:
Quote:
ZIONISM AND WORLD WAR II
Let us fast forward our time machine to the early 1930's. Again, there is no
need for a detailed analysis and debate of the causes and major events of
World War II. The purpose here is to again illustrate yet another case of
selfish Zionist agitation for American entry into a war.
The German people were bitterly resentful of not only the Zionist role in
bringing about their defeat in World War I, but also over the brutal monetary
reparations which had been imposed upon them by certain Zionist bankers
Page 121 of 226

who helped craft the brutal Treaty of Versailles after the war. Stripped of
formerly German territory, and with the German economy in ruins, the
people of Germany elected Adolf Hitler as their Chancellor leader. Hitler and
the Nazi party soon seized control of the German media, banks, and
universities away from the influential Zionists who reigned supreme in those
institutions.
Almost immediately, Zionists all over the world began to agitate for action
against Germany. Boycotts of German imports were imposed and calls for
the UK and USA to take immediate action against Germany began to
emanate from Zionist circles. On March 24, 1933, The Daily Express of
England carried the bold headline; "Judea Declares War on Germany. Jews of
All the World Unite in Action." The front page story revealed that the
Zionists had announced a concerted worldwide effort to isolate Germany
and turn other nations against her.
The following year, Zionist political leader Vladimir Jabotinksy wrote:
"The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish
community; on every continent...We shall start a spiritual and material war
of the world against Germany. Our Jewish interests call for the complete
destruction of Germany."
A few years later, Lord Beaverbrook, a British newspaper magnate issued

this warning about the Zionist influence over the British press. Beaverbrook
warned:
"There are 20,000 German Jews who have come here to England. They all
work against an agreement with Germany. The Jews have got a big position
in the press here. Their political influence is driving us into the direction of
war."
In 1939, Germany and Poland went to war over disputed territory that was
taken away from Germany by the Versailles Treaty of 1918. Under the phony
pretext of protecting Poland, Great Britain and France immediately declared
war on Germany. Beaverbrook’s prediction was realized.
In the United States, the Zionist Mafia again went to work on a US president.
The names of the players had changed but the game was still the same. It was
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Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s turn to deliver the US into another European
war. Patriotic Americans such as famed aviator Charles Lindbergh saw this
and tried to warn the American people that Zionist media influence was
intending to drive us into another World War. Said Lindbergh:
"I am not attacking the Jewish people. But I am saying that the leaders of both
the British and the Jewish races, for reasons which are as understandable
from their viewpoint as they are inadvisable from ours, for reasons which are
not American, wish to involve us in the war."
Because of strong public anti-war sentiment, FDR and his Zionist allies had a
hard time dragging the US into the European war. Then another "incident"
came along at Pearl Harbor in 1941. Japan and Germany were bound to a
mutual defense agreement, which meant that war with Japan would
automatically mean war with Germany. FDR embargoed Japan’s oil supply
in the hopes of forcing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor. Overwhelming evidence
from government documents clearly shows that FDR had advance
knowledge of the Japanese attack and allowed it to happen so that he could
drag the US into World War II.
As was the case in WW I, US entry the war meant another defeat of

Germany. Hours before committing suicide on April 30, 1945, Adolf Hitler
dictated his last will and political testament. In it he placed responsibility for
WW II on the Zionist Mafia - or, as he called it - "International Jewry and its
henchmen". It's no surprise that Hitler would make such a claim. However,
his final accusation of the Zionists does parallel the statements made by
Jabotinsky, Lindbergh, Beaverbrook, Joe Kennedy, and many others. In the
final writing of his life, Hitler wrote:
"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was
wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish
Origin or working for Jewish interests... Nor had I ever wished that after the
appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either
England or America."
Regardless of your view of World War II and whether or not the USA
belonged in the fight, the essential point which cannot be refuted is again
this: years before World War II had even started, the Zionists had yet again
demonstrated that they had no aversion to sending Americans to die for their
Page 123 of 226

own interests.

{Ansar Wrote}

windrivershoshoni
My opening statement said the following:
Quote:
My aim in this cage match is to show the undeniable mountain of evidence

pointing to Israeli involvement with 9/11. This evidence, if was pointed to at
any other country in the world would make Americans demand en-mass a
full investigation of the facts surrounding 9/11 and immediate cooling of
relations between that country and the U.S…
I was very clear on what I was trying to prove. Contrary to

thoughtcriminal’s poor reading of English I never said I was going to
prove that the Mossad did 9/11. I said I will present a mountain of evidence
showing their undeniable involvement with 9/11. I will summarize this
mountain of evidence below and also summarize what I presented about
Israeli past actions showing that 9/11 fits nicely into a pattern of events
similar to ones committed in the past. All of this begs the question why, why
isn’t our government seriously investigating the Israelis for so many events
involving them with 9/11?
Page 124 of 226

I also said the following in my opening statement:
Quote:
From the evidences I am aware of I firmly believe that the Israelis and
crooked elements in our government engineered 9/11 to create a Pearl
Harbor type of event that would benefit the American Israeli dupes and their
Jewish masters.
This is what I firmly believe but I never said that I will prove that. Mr.
thoughtcriminal better get his facts straight or go learn how to read English.
My endeavor was to present the evidence and let whoever reads it to come to
their own conclusions. As for me my conclusion is that the Mossad and
crooked elements in our government are responsible. Anything also showing
CIA or any government foreknowledge or involvement enhances my
position.

{Ansar Wrote}

windrivershoshoni
The Mountain of Evidence!
So in regards to 9/11 we find the Israelis involved with many things. Strange
wouldn’t you say that we don’t find Russians, Chinese, Italians or even
Africans involved with events related to 9/11 as Israelis? Isn’t it just
Page 125 of 226

coincidental that the people involved just happen to be Jews? Based on what
I presented and what you could not refute as fact we find the following:
1. It was Israelis who were caught watching the WTC burn and crumble and
celebrating it with joy. When the Lakers beat Sacramento for the NBA crown
they celebrated. Why? Because their efforts were successful! The event, which
was the championship game, they won. The Israelis, according to the eye
witnesses who saw them on top of the van were ecstatic. They were joyful
and why you ask? Because of America’s misery, America’s lost and
thousands of innocent lives perishing. But to the Israelis this was success.
They were ecstatic with joy because they too won the championship game!
The reason why the Israelis failed lie detector tests is because the truth that
they could not admit was, we planned this. We pulled it off. We successfully
created a Pearl Harbor incident to get the stupid goyim fully in bed with us.
And just like we did in the time of Christ we are going to do today. We will
get our media fully in bed with us to blame someone else for the crime. Yeah
we were caught in the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, etc. But we are ready now.
The stakes are too high. “Yippee Aye Yay we are successful. Come on
Kurzberg let’s dance!!!”
2. It was Israelis whose van was stopped and maps and other paraphernalia
were found leading the FBI to believe that they had definite involvement
with 9/11.
3. It was the Israeli owner of the Moving van company that immediately
shutdown his business, put his house up for sale and fled to Israel when his
employees were caught. Aren’t these drastic actions and shouldn’t we want
to know why the owner behaved that way?
4. It was Israelis who were caught spying on the US and lived in the same
vicinity as the supposed “hijackers”.
5. It was Israelis who were part of a spy ring that Carl Cameron reported
about in Foxx News saying that government officials stated that they had
“tie-ins” to 9/11. By the way this news was suppressed and the story taken
off the Foxx News website. The people responsible for that were JINSA (the
Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs). JINSA President and CEO
Page 126 of 226

David Steinmann is also a director of CAMERA (Committee for Accurate
Middle East Reporting in America), the group that actually staged the e-mail,
fax, letter, and phone call mobilization that squeezed Fox TV, to the point
that they removed the transcripts of the four Carl Cameron segments from
their own web site. I wonder why these American Jews will be interested in
doing such a thing?
6. It was Israelis who the following was reported about by U.S. government
authorities when the Israeli spies were found: “An Israeli government
spokesman reported a few days ago the news of arresting a number of
Israelis by the US intelligence bodies in Florida. This might seem strange but
what is more significant is the deliberate ignorance by the Israeli government
of the reason for the arrests. The Israelis did not even mention the reason or
the case for which their subjects were detained. The point is that a big
quantity of the Anthrax germ was held with the Israelis when they were
arrested. Moreover, the detainees had 15 charts of the New York Trade
Center and eight charts of the Pentagon building which were attacked on
September 11th. This is in addition to other six charts of the White House,
which was among the would-be targets of the September 11th attacks.
According to discreet US reports, the charts found with the Israelis had
accurately drawn the Pentagon building and the World Trade Center and
defined their geometric projections, as well as, precisely depicted the many
floors. Further, some data included in the charts define the itineraries of civil
passenger planes and their destinations!!!...”
7. It was Israelis who the Jerusalem Post reported about that 4000 were
missing or expected to be dead as a result of doing business and working at
the WTC on 9/11.
8. It was the Israeli general counsel Alon Pinkas who reported that out of the
4000 Israelis dead or missing actually only one was killed, a visitor. The
statistics of this happening is IMPOSSIBLE. The only reason this could
happen is if somehow Israelis were warned ahead of time about the planes
crashing into the WTC. The natural question to ask is are there any evidence
of prior warnings of the impending WTC attacks given to anyone in the
world? If there is let’s narrow the list down to see if any warnings happen to
be given to Israelis. Well it just so happens that there were prior warnings
and the only people in the world to receive them were Israelis!!!!
Page 127 of 226

9. It was Israelis who received Odigo warnings two hours before the planes
struck the WTC buildings. This was reported both in the Ha’aertz and
Washington Post newspapers. This is proof positive that someone who cares
for the lives of Israelis knew that planes were going to be crashed into the
WTC ahead of time and wanted to make sure Israelis were not killed. I am
sure the identity of that person was not Bin laden. This succinctly explains
why only one Israeli got killed on 9/11 although the number was expected to
be as much as 4000.
10. It was Israelis who were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades,
explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets and caught in Mexico in an
attempt to blow the Mexican Congress up on October 10, 2001. The Israelis
were booked for conspiracy to destroy a building by means of an explosive
by the Mexican police. If they were successful in blowing up the Mexican
Congress then like 9/11 it would have been blamed on Muslim terrorists.
They got caught red-handed here and only God knows how many other
incidents that innocent Muslims are being blamed for that was really done by
Israelis.
11. General Gul, who at one time was a close ally of the U.S. and a staunch
supporter of western values, who could have blamed 9/11 on his Russian or
Indian enemies but instead choose to blame 9/11 on Israelis. This former
director of the Pakistani Intelligence Service said un-categorically about 9/11
that “Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits.” Why did
he just happen to also blame Israelis? Of course you would say he was
biased, etc. I expect that from you but why didn’t he blame India or Russia
who were far worse enemies to Pakistan than Israel? This was a man who
was close to the American Secret Service leaders and their ally. How come he
seems to know what Vreeland and other CIA operatives worldwide knew
about 9/11?
12. The news about the impending attacks was known by even low ranking
CIA agents like Delmart Vreeland. To prove it he wrote what was going to
happen in August, 2001 in a sealed envelope while in prison in Canada and
had his guards open the envelope on September 14th. Lo and behold he
accurately predicted the attacks of 9/11. If he knew about this I am certain
that many others in the CIA especially at higher levels knew about it also. As
Page 128 of 226

such this was a deliberate planned action set up to create a Pearl Harbor type
event to cause the American government to take actions that the planners of
this event wanted. With the complicity of the Jewish controlled news media
the finger was solidly pointed on OBL, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. They did
not allow any suspicion to be pointed anywhere else. How convenient!!!
As an example of the many reports throughout the world implicating Israeli

involvement in 9/11, here is a partial text of one from Canada’s Stern-Intel on
September 17, 2001:
”A US military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence

memo that points to the Israeli Mossad intelligence service having links to
the World Trade Centre and Pentagon attacks.”
13. The U.S. Army School for Advanced Military Studies (SAMS) wrote this
about the Israeli Mossad which was reported about on September 10, 2001
one day before 9/11:
BINGO! The very next day an “Arab act” took place against the U.S. and no
suspicion or investigation was done based on this credible report from
SAMS. As I said the finger was so firmly pointed against Bin Laden that even
intelligent people were so suffocated by the Jewish press that no other
questions were entertained.
14. An abnormal amount of put stock options were purchased against

United and American Airlines one day before 9/11. Gee whiz I wonder why
British Airways, Southwest Airlines, Continental or other Airlines did not
have abnormally large amounts of put stock options purchases also? Why
did it just so happen to be from the two airlines that were involved with the
9/11 incident? It was reported that many Israelis and even an ex-CIA director
from Deutsche bank made huge profits on the purchase. One person made as
much as $2,500,000.00 on the deal and when last reported did not come to
pick up his money. How did all these people know that American and
United Airlines stocks will drop so dramatically in value the next day??? I
ask the same question as Michael Shore does in the following paragraph,
Page 129 of 226

Why? Also why did this story just drop from the media and no follow up
was done? Another example of the media in cahoots with the planners of
9/11 to deflect attention from the obvious and keep the Americans firmly
fixated to OBL as the only possibility for 9/11.
Why?
15. When Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and other Palestinian groups
commits an act of freedom against the brutal Israeli regime, no matter how
small the numbers they kill of the enemy they take responsibility for it. That
has been their pattern for a long time. Now the largest attack killing the most
amount of “the enemy” Americans, instead of OBL boasting about it and
even cheering like the Israelis did at the WTC he says the following: “I have
already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the
knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent
women, children and other humans as an appreciable act…”
This is quite significant because as successful as this act was it would have
been something for OBL to boast about but instead he condemns it and
distances himself from it. Very unlikely behavior for someone guilty and
who would normally gloat at such a major accomplishment. The U.S.
government claimed that it had proof which they never showed any of us.
They claimed that they showed it to the Pakistani President but he also
recently came out with a statement claiming that he believes that there is no
way that OBL could have pulled off 9/11. What happened to the proof?
With all this evidence of Israeli involvement, corrupt U.S. government

officials involvement and media complicity in covering and even dropping
information that should be pursued and thoroughly investigated I ask the
question why, why in the hell is any of this not being investigated? This is
a mountain of evidence. Other evidence not discussed but also valid is
how an Israeli company abruptly broke its lease with the WTC, incurring
huge costs just weeks before 9/11, the many reports showing evidence that
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the WTC was blown up from within explaining how the buildings fell, no
video or stills of any of the hijackers at Logan Airport, how did the U.S.
government identify so quickly the identities of the hijackers and was able
to fix the blame on OBL just a few hours after the event, the fact that 8 of
the hijackers identified are still alive today, the many false reports about
terrorists identities like the one recently of a Pakistani man who never left
Pakistan in his life having his picture publicly broadcasted in the media,
and I could go on and on.
What we have been told officially about 9/11 has more holes in it than aged
cheese. It just does not add up. Yet serious actions are being taken against
innocent Muslims and thousands of lives are being lost and even more are
being harassed and persecuted. Why isn’t our government investigating
the huge pile of evidence pointing to the Israelis and why aren’t relations
between the U.S. and Israel cooled? Why? Why? Why?

{Ansar Wrote}

WholeTruth123, OneChopStick, bluegrass, texoma, LaDonna, Fred25,
ExiledInTaiwan, hoplophile, The_Janissary, Judson, AmericanWoman,
windrivershoshoni
A Pattern of Consistent Behavior!
Page 131 of 226

1. The leadership of the Jews made false accusations of Jesus and brought
him before Pontius Pilate for punishment. They also used their “media” to
persuade the masses to choose Barabbas over Jesus. They used deceit to lie
against Christ and to whip up public support to the point where the people
were yelling “Crucify him, crucify him, crucify him” as human cattle (goyim)
blindly obsessed in seeing an innocent man killed for no crime committed. I
have posted excerpts below but you can read about it more here in Matthew.
Quote:
1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people
took counsel against Jesus to put him to death: 2 And when they had bound
him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor…
11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying,
Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest. 12 And
when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing.
16 And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas. 17 Therefore when
they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I
release unto you? Barabbas or Jesus which is called Christ? 20 But the chief
priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas,
and destroy Jesus.….. 22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with
Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23
And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the
more, saying, Let him be crucified…. 25 Then answered all the people, and
said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
King James Version, Matthew Chapter 27
Reading this is reminiscent of what the U.S. is doing today against Iraq. The
Jewish media has whipped up public support within the U.S. to have our
government attack Iraq for no crime committed against the U.S. This is like
how the Jews used the Roman governor Pontius Pilate to crucify Jesus for no
crime committed. The irony of it all is that 9/11 was the trigger for this
unjustified attack on Iraq of which Iraq was totally innocent. If half of the
mountain of evidence against the Israelis for 9/11 were true about Iraq then
maybe there would have been some justification. But no such thing exists.
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The Americans are just blindly following the behests of the Satanic Jews. Isn’t
it any wonder that Jesus said the following about them:
Quote:
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent
me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear
my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye
will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his
own: F19 for he is a liar, and the father of it…
John, Chapter 8 of the King James Version of the Bible

{Ansar Wrote}

ExiledInTaiwan, hoplophile, The_Janissary, Judson, windrivershoshoni,
Bolero
Here are a few more examples of Jewish treachery against their own people
and other people with the aim of having others take the blame for their
actions and to accomplish specific goals beneficial to Jewish people:
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2. The Jewish Pogroms: Started in the 1890s and continued for three decades
to accomplish the following goals:
A. Provide large number of refugees to the U.S. to create a voting block to

finalize the Internationalist bankers acquisition of America’s monetary
system.
B. Create worldwide hatred of the Czarist regime in Russia.
The details exposing this dastardly plan is exposed in full at this Illuminati
and CFR site. A brief description is given below:
Quote:
"The poverty matter was not a great problem, but the voter problem was a
different story. But as I previously said; Jacob Schiff was a smart cookie. Here
is the atrocious and murderous method he employed to solve that voter
problem. His solution emphasizes how very little the Jewish internationalist
banker’s care about their own racial brethren as you shall see. Suddenly;
around 1890, there broke out a nationwide series of pogroms in Russia.
Many, many, thousands of innocent Jews; men, women, and children were
slaughtered by the Cossacks and other peasants. Similar pogroms with
similar slaughter of innocent Jews broke-out in Poland, Rumania, and
Bulgaria. All those pogroms were fomented by Rothschild agents. As a
result; the Jewish terrified refugees, from all of those nations, swarmed into
the United States and that continued throughout the next two or three
decades, because the pogroms were continuous through all those years. All
those refugees were aided by self-styled humanitarian-committees set up by
Schiff, the Rothschilds, and all the Rothschild affiliates.
"In the main; the refugees streamed into New York, but the Schiff-Rothschild
humanitarian-committees found ways to shuffle many of them into other
large cities such as Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc...
All of them were quickly transformed into "naturalized-citizens" and
educated to register as Democrats. Thus all of that so-called minority-group
became solid Democratic voter-blocks in their communities, all controlled
and maneuvered by their so-called benefactors. And shortly after the turn of
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the century; they became vital factors in the political-life of our nation. That
was one of the methods Schiff employed to plant men like Nelson Aldrich in
our Senate and Woodrow Wilson in the White House.
3. WWI: I already detailed how the Zionists used the Zimmerman Telegram
as a way of getting the U.S. into WWI in exchange for the British promising
them Palestine. Here also is a few quotes from Benjamin Freedman, who was
the Jewish principal owner of the Woodbury Soap company and personally
acquainted with Bernard Baruch, Samuel Untermyer, Woodrow Wilson,
Franklin Roosevelt, Joseph Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, and many more
movers and shakers of our times. The speech was given in 1961 before a
patriotic audience which confirms what I presented earlier about the Jews
getting the U.S. involved with WWI in order to get the British to promise
them Palestine via the Balfour Declaration. The link to the full speech is here.
Quote:
What happened? World War I broke out in the summer of 1914. There are
few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was waged on
one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other side by
Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.
Within two years Germany had won that war: not only won it nominally, but
won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise to the world,
had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean. Great Britain stood there
without ammunition for her soldiers, with one week's food supply -- and
after that, starvation. At that time, the French army had mutinied. They had
lost 600,000 of the flower of French youth in the defense of Verdun on the
Somme. The Russian army was defecting, they were picking up their toys
and going home, they didn't want to play war anymore, and they didn't like
the Czar. And the Italian army had collapsed.
Not a shot had been fired on German soil. Not one enemy soldier had
crossed the border into Germany. And yet, Germany was offering England
peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers
call a status quo ante basis. That means: "Let's call the war off, and let
everything be as it was before the war started." England, in the summer of
1916 was considering that -- seriously. They had no choice. It was either
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accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering
them, or going on with the war and being totally defeated.
While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the
Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and -- I am
going to be brief because it's a long story, but I have all the documents to
prove any statement that I make -- they said: "Look here. You can yet win
this war. You don't have to give up. You don't have to accept the negotiated
peace offered to you now by Germany. You can win this war if the United
States will come in as your ally." The United States was not in the war at that
time. We were fresh; we were young; we were rich; we were powerful. They
told England: "We will guarantee to bring the United States into the war as
your ally, to fight with you on your side, if you will promise us Palestine
after you win the war." In other words, they made this deal: "We will get the
United States into this war as your ally. The price you must pay is Palestine
after you have won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and
Turkey." Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody,
as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason
whatsoever. It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain, that never had any
connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine should
offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the United States
into the war. However, they did make that promise, in October of 1916. And
shortly after that -- I don't know how many here remember it -- the United
States, which was almost totally pro-German, entered the war as Britain's
ally.
4. WWII: I explained previously how Franklin Roosevelt allowed Pearl

Harbor to happen in order to get the Americans into WWII against Germany.
This move was pushed on the U.S. by the Jews who were adamantly pressing
the U.S. into war.
What I did not go into was what the Jews wanted as a result of WWII. The
two goals that were achieved for Jews as a result of WWII were as follows:
A. Create world sympathy for Jews via the "Holocaust".
B. Finalized the creation of the state of Israel and mass migration of Jews
Page 136 of 226

from Europe.
Quote:
According to Myron Fagan at the link Illuminati and CFR:
"World War II, when and if necessary, was to be fomented by using the
controversies between Fascists and political Zionists, and here let it be
noted that Hitler was financed by Krupp, the Warburgs, the Rothschilds,
and other internationalist bankers and that the slaughter of the supposed
6,000,000 Jews by Hitler didn't bother the Jewish internationalist bankers
at all. That slaughter was necessary in order to create worldwide-hatred of
the German people and thus bring about war against them. In short; this
second world war was to be fought to destroy Nazism and increase the
power of political Zionism so that the state of Israel could be established
in Palestine.”
The Neturei Karta, a highly religious Jewish group admits that during WWII
Zionists were working with Hitler to force immigration of German Jews to
Palestine. The following is a statement from their website
www.netureikarta.org:
" It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the
means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-
Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the
world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did -
They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of
Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take
whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists
themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Ha Meitsor, etc.). The
Zionists continue to practice this strategy today, they incite anti-Semitism
and then they present themselves as the "saviors".
Another reference is from the article: The Secret Alliance Between Hitler and
The Zionists, written by M. Raphael Johnson PHD. The link to this article is
at Hitler and Zionists.
The war by the international Jewish leadership on Germany not only

sparked definite reprisals by the German government but also set the stage
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for a little-known economic and political alliance between the Hitler
government and the leaders of the Zionist movement who hoped that the
tension between the Germans and the Jews would lead to massive
emigration to Palestine. In short, the result was a tactical alliance between
the Nazis and the founders of the modern-day state of Israel - a fact that
many today would prefer be forgotten…
In fact, the Zionist faction had every reason to ensure the permanence of
National Socialist ideology in Germany. Klaus Polkehn, writing in the
Journal of Palestine Studies ("The Secret Contacts: Zionism and Nazi
Germany, 1933-1941"; JPS v. 3/4, spring/summer 1976), claims that the
moderate attitude of the Zionists was due to their vested interest in seeing
the financial victory of National Socialism to force immigration to
Palestine. This little-known factor would ultimately come to play a pivotal
part in the relationship between Nazi Germany and the Jews.

{Ansar Wrote}
5. Zionist Committed Terrorist Actions Against Iraqi Jews:
I want to repeat a sentence from the Neturei Karta’s quote above to show the
raw truth about the Zionists. …It is openly stated in books written by the
founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a
state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of
Page 138 of 226

the Jews in all the lands of the world… The following is an open admission
by an Iraqi Jew showing how terrorist actions were committed against Iraqi
Jews by Zionists to force them to flee to Israel. The link to the full details of
this article is at Iraqi Jews
Quote:
In 1950, a wave of anti Semitism and terrorism in Iraq made Naeim Giladi,
21, join the Zionist underground.
Giladi was imprisoned, tortured and sentenced to death by Iraqi authorities.

He escaped and fled to Israel only to discover that the anti Semitism and
bombings had been engineered by his fellow Zionists to dupe Iraqi Jews into
going to Israel.
Giladi's family was part of a Jewish community that settled and prospered in
Babylon 2600 years ago, 600 years before Christianity, and 1200 years before
Islam.
Then in the late 1940's, the Prime Minister Nouri-el-Said fired Jewish
government employees, denied permits to Jewish merchants, and finally, in
March 1950, deprived Jews of their citizenship. Still they did not leave.
A month later, a series of terrorist bombings started the wave of emigration.

By January 1951 when a bomb thrown at a synagogue killed three and
wounded 30, the exodus of frightened Jews jumped to 600-700 per day.
When Giladi's father discovered his son had joined the Zionists, he was
skeptical. "You'll come home with your tail between your legs," he said.
But Giladi was young and idealistic. Jews were being killed and Zionism
represented a chance to build a national home. "I was a true believer," he
writes.
In an essay "The Jews of Iraq", which is on line, Giladi describes his bitter
realization that Zionists were behind the anti Semitism and bombings.
Unknown to Giladi, two members of the Zionist Underground had been
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arrested and confessed that they had carried out the terrorist attacks.
A book, "Venom of the Zionist Viper," by an Iraqi investigator names Zionist

"emissary" Mordecai Ben-Porat as the organizer. The book was banned in
Israel.
Iraqi Prime Minister Said was a British pawn. He met Israeli PM David Ben
Gurion in Vienna in 1948 and agreed to transfer the Iraqi Jews to Israel as
part of the elite geopolitical program.
This and other Zionist crimes against Jews are documented in Giladi's book,
"Ben Gurion's Scandals: How the Mossad and the Haganah Eliminated
Jews,"(1992) which will be republished by Dandelion Books this spring.
By January 1952, all but 6,000 of 125,000 Iraqi Jews had fled to Israel where as
"Arab Jews," they were treated as second-class citizens. Israel wanted them to
perform the menial jobs vacated by the Palestinians. Between the Iraqi and
Israeli governments, the Iraqi Jews lost much of their wealth…

{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
Page 140 of 226

6. In 1956, as reported by the Times Of London, during one of Israel's
perpetual wars with its neighbors, the Mossad tried to trick the United States
into siding with Israel against the Arabs by blowing up a US facility in Cairo
and blaming the Arabs for it. The plot was wrecked when the operatives
were caught and confessed, creating a huge scandal.
7. According to Victor Ostrovski, a defector from the Mossad, the USA was
tricked into bombing Libya when the Mossad planted a radio transmitter in
Tripoli which sent out fake orders to terrorists which the USA could
intercept.
8. On June 8, Israel used unmarked fighters and torpedo boats to launch an

34 American lives and 171 wounded. The Israelis first attacked the Liberty's
Israelis were the attackers. After unmarked Israeli fighters horrendously
bombed and strafed the Liberty, Israel sent in torpedo boats to finish the job.
the Lavon Affair, Israel hoped to blame this act of war on their enemy, the
I will stop here but I could go on and on with many more examples. The
examples I listed above are MAJOR indictments against the Satanic Jews.
From major world wars, that cost the lives of millions of humanity, to
treacherous actions against their own people. These are very, very serious
actions against all of humanity. I contend that true to their past consistent
actions in the past and along with the mountain of evidence pointing to
their involvement with 9/11, that Satanic Jews along with corrupt elements
in our government are responsible for 9/11. I firmly believe they are
responsible and that innocent Muslims were framed for the murderous
actions of Jews!
Page 141 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}

Bolero
I conclude this debate by quoting the following reactions from Israeli

leaders when the news of 9/11 broke:
Quote:
Reactions from the Israeli side to the September attack:
Ehud Sprinzak, terrorism expert at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said

"From the perspective of Jews, it is the most important public relations act
ever committed in our favor."
The attack "was good for the Jews," "It is very good", said Netanyahu...before
he caught himself and amended his statement.
In an interview with Le Monde, Ami Ayalon, former Head of Israeli Shin Bet,
stated: "Since September 11, our leaders have been euphoric."
Lastly TC, I want you and all of the doubters out there to seriously follow the
following news report. In this news report we will use certain word
substitutions to make our point. I seriously want you to clear your mind and
think like a goyim. Put yourself in the mindset of the average American.
What would you Mr. average American think after reading such a report?
Please follow me with this. OK here we go:
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Breaking News! ABC news reporter Ansar has compiled in conjunction with
government agencies and respected news sources here in the U.S. and
around the world the following report about events surrounding 9/11. This
tragic incident that took the lives of about 3000 Americans is something that
will never be forgotten in American history. As a result of this our brave
President has initiated the war on terrorism and has attacked Iraq to
eradicate the possibility of WMD falling into the hands of terrorists.
The following report shows factual events involving the Republic of Iran
with 9/11. The details are as follows:
So in regards to 9/11 we find the Iranians involved with many things.

Strange wouldn’t you say that we don’t find Russians, Chinese, Italians or
even Africans involved with events related to 9/11 as Iranians? Isn’t it just
coincidental that the people involved just happen to be Iranians? Based on
what was presented before I want to list the following:
1. It was Iranians who were caught watching the WTC burn and crumble
and celebrating it with joy. When the Lakers beat Sacramento for the NBA
crown they celebrated. Why? Because their efforts were successful! The
event, which was the championship game, they won. The Iranians,
according to the eye witnesses who saw them on top of the van were ecstatic.
They were joyful and why you ask? Because of America’s misery, America’s
lost and thousands of innocent lives perishing. But to the Iranians this was
success. They were ecstatic with joy because they too won the championship
game!
To show that this joy was not local only to the 5 Iranians, look at what was
said by and about their leaders:
Reactions from the Iranian side to the September attack:
Farooza Pourkey, terrorism expert at Khomeini University in Tehran, said

"From the perspective of Iranians, it is the most important public relations
act ever committed in our favor."
The attack "was good for the Iranians," "It is very good", said Mohammed
Qahtani...before he caught himself and amended his statement.
Page 143 of 226

In an interview with Le Monde, Ali Namazi, former Head of the Iranian
Militia for the Republic of Iran, stated: "Since September 11, our leaders
have been euphoric."
The reason why the Iranians failed lie detector tests is because the truth that
they could not admit was we planned this. We pulled it off. We successfully
created a Pearl Harbor incident to get the stupid goyim fully in bed with us.
And just like we did in the time of Christ we are going to do today. We will
get our media fully in bed with us to blame someone else for the crime. Yeah
we were caught in the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, etc. But we are ready now.
The stakes are too high. “Yippee Aye Yay we are successful. Come on Ali
let’s dance!!!”
2. It was Iranians whose van was stopped and maps and other paraphernalia
were found leading the FBI to believe that they had definite involvement
with 9/11.
3. It was the Iranian owner of the Moving van company that immediately
shutdown his business, put his house up for sale and fled to Iran when his
employees were caught. Aren’t these drastic actions and shouldn’t we want
to know why the owner behaved that way?
4. It was Iranians who were caught spying on the US and lived in the same
vicinity as the supposed “hijackers”.
5. It was Iranians who were part of a spy ring that Carl Cameron reported
about in Foxx News saying that government officials stated that they had
“tie-ins” to 9/11. By the way this news was suppressed and the story taken
off the Foxx News website. The people responsible for that were IINSA (the
Iranian Institute for National Security Affairs). IINSA President and CEO
Faruddin Mosadeq is also a director of CAMERA (Committee for Accurate
Middle East Reporting in America), the group that actually staged the e-mail,
fax, letter, and phone call mobilization that squeezed Fox TV, to the point
that they removed the transcripts of the four Carl Cameron segments from
their own web site. I wonder why these American Iranians will be interested
in doing such a thing.
Page 144 of 226

6. It was Iranians who the following was reported about by U.S. government
authorities when the Iranian spies were found: “An Iranian government
spokesman reported a few days ago the news of arresting a number of
Iranians by the US intelligence bodies in Florida. This might seem strange
but what is more significant is the deliberate ignorance by the Iranian
government of the reason for the arrests. The Iranians did not even mention
the reason or the case for which their subjects were detained. The point is
that a big quantity of the Anthrax germ was held with the Iranians when
they were arrested. Moreover, the detainees had 15 charts of the New York
Trade Center and eight charts of the Pentagon building which were attacked
on September 11th. This is in addition to other six charts of the White House,
which was among the would-be targets of the September 11th attacks.
According to discreet US reports, the charts found with the Iranians had
accurately drawn the Pentagon building and the World Trade Center and
defined their geometric projections, as well as, precisely depicted the many
floors. Further, some data included in the charts define the itineraries of civil
passenger planes and their destinations!!!...”
7. It was Iranians who the Tehran Post reported about that 4000 were
missing or expected to be dead as a result of doing business and working at
the WTC on 9/11.
8. It was the Iranian general counsel Mohammad Nasruddin Mehdi who

reported that out of the 4000 Iranians dead or missing actually only one was
killed, a visitor. The statistics of this happening is IMPOSSIBLE. The only
reason this could happen is if somehow Iranians were warned ahead of time
about the planes crashing into the WTC. The natural question to ask is, are
there any evidence of prior warnings of the impending WTC attacks given to
anyone in the world? If there is let’s narrow the list down to see if any
warnings happen to be given to Iranians. Well it just so happens that there
were prior warnings and the only people in the world to receive them were
Iranians!!!!
9. It was Iranians who received Odigo warnings two hours before the planes
struck the WTC buildings. This was reported both in the Tehran Times and
Washington Post newspapers. This is proof positive that someone who cares
for the lives of Iranians knew that planes were going to be crashed into the
WTC ahead of time and wanted to make sure Iranians were not killed. I am
Page 145 of 226

sure the identity of that person was not Bin laden. This succinctly explains
why only one Iranian got killed on 9/11 although the number was expected
to be as much as 4000.
10. It was Iranians who were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades,
explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets and caught in Mexico in an
attempt to blow the Mexican Congress up on October 10, 2001. The Iranians
were booked for conspiracy to destroy a building by means of an explosive
by the Mexican police. If they were successful in blowing up the Mexican
Congress then like 9/11 it would have been blamed on Christian terrorists.
They got caught red-handed here and only God knows how many other
incidents that innocent Christians are being blamed for that were really done
by Iranians.
11. General Gul, who at one time was a close ally of the U.S. and a staunch
supporter of western values, who could have blamed 9/11 on his Russian or
Indian enemies but instead choose to blame 9/11 on Iranians. This former
director of the Pakistani Intelligence Service said un-categorically about 9/11
that “The Iranian Savak and its American associates are the obvious
culprits.” Why did he just happen to also blame Iranians? Of course you
would say he was biased, etc. I expect that from you but why didn’t he blame
India or Russia who were far worse enemies to Pakistan than Iran? This was
a man who was close to the American Secret Service leaders and their ally.
How come he seems to know what Vreeland and other CIA operatives
worldwide knew about 9/11?
12. The news about the impending attacks was known by even low ranking
CIA agents like Delmart Vreeland. To prove it he wrote what was going to
happen in August, 2001 in a sealed envelope while in prison in Canada and
had his guards open the envelope on September 14th. Lo and behold he
accurately predicted the attacks of 9/11. If he knew about this I am certain
that many others in the CIA especially at higher levels knew about it also. As
such this was a deliberate planned action set up to create a Pearl Harbor type
event to cause the American government to take actions that the planners of
this event wanted. With the complicity of the Iranian controlled news media
the finger was solidly pointed on OBL, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. They did
not allow any suspicion to be pointed anywhere else. How convenient!!!
As an example of the many reports throughout the world implicating Iranian
Page 146 of 226

involvement in 9/11, here is a partial text of one from Canada’s Stern-Intel on
September 17, 2001:
”A US military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence

memo that points to the Iranian Savak intelligence service having links to the
World Trade Centre and Pentagon attacks.”
13. The U.S. Army School for Advanced Military Studies (SAMS) wrote this
about the Iranian Savak which was reported about on September 10, 2001
one day before 9/11:
BINGO! The very next day an “Arab act” took place against the U.S. and no
suspicion or investigation was done based on this credible report from
SAMS. As I said the finger was so firmly pointed against Bin Laden that even
intelligent people were so suffocated by the Iranian press that no other
questions were entertained.
14. An abnormal amount of put stock options were purchased against

United and American Airlines one day before 9/11. Gee whiz I wonder why
British Airways, Southwest Airlines, Continental or other Airlines did not
have abnormally large amounts of put stock options purchases also? Why
did it just so happen to be from the two airlines that were involved with the
9/11 incident? It was reported that many Iranians and even an ex-CIA
director from Deutsche bank made huge profits on the purchase. One person
made as much as $2,500,000.00 on the deal and when last reported did not
come to pick up his money. How did all these people know that American
and United Airlines stocks will drop so dramatically in value the next day???
I ask the same question as Michael Shore does in the following paragraph,
Why? Also why did this story just drop from the media and no follow up
was done? Another example of the media in cahoots with the planners of
9/11 to deflect attention from the obvious and keep the Americans firmly
fixated on OBL as the only possibility for 9/11.
Page 147 of 226

Why?
15. When Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and other Palestinian groups
commits an act of freedom against the brutal Israeli regime, no matter how
small the numbers they kill of the enemy they take responsibility for it. That
has been their pattern for a long time. Now the largest attack killing the most
amount of “the enemy” Americans, instead of OBL boasting about it and
even cheering like the Iranians did at the WTC he says the following: “I have
already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the
knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent
women, children and other humans as an appreciable act…”
This is quite significant because as successful as this act was it would have
been something for OBL to boast about but instead he condemns it and
distances himself from it. Very unlikely behavior for someone guilty and
who would normally gloat at such a major accomplishment. The U.S.
government claimed that it had proof which they never showed any of us.
They claimed that they showed it to the Pakistani President but he also
recently came out with a statement claiming that he believes that there is no
way that OBL could have pulled off 9/11. What happened to the proof?
With all this evidence of Iranian involvement, corrupt U.S. government

officials involvement and media complicity in covering and even dropping
information that should be pursued and thoroughly investigated I ask the
question why, why in the hell is any of this not being investigated? This is
a mountain of evidence. Other evidence not discussed but also valid is
how an Iranian company abruptly broke its lease with the WTC, incurring
huge costs just weeks before 9/11, the many reports showing evidence that
the WTC was blown up from within explaining how the buildings fell, no
video or stills of any of the hijackers at Logan Airport, how did the U.S.
government identify so quickly the identities of the hijackers and was able
to fix the blame on OBL just a few hours after the event, the fact that 8 of
the hijackers identified are still alive today, the many false reports about
terrorists identities like the one recently of a Pakistani man who never left
Pakistan in his life having his picture publicly broadcasted in the media,
and I could go on and on.
Page 148 of 226

What we have been told officially about 9/11 has more holes in it than aged
cheese. It just does not add up. Yet serious actions are being taken against
innocent Christians and thousands of lives are being lost and even more
are being harassed and persecuted. Why isn’t our government
investigating the huge pile of evidence pointing to the Iranians and why
aren’t relations between the U.S. and Iran cooled? Why? Why? Why?
Along with this the Iranians have a consistent history of fraudulent actions
costing the lives of millions of human beings. Here is a brief look at some
past Iranian actions showing their treachery, deception and fraud in having
innocents take the blame for their evil actions and false accusations:
Quote:
1. According to our Bible it was Iranians who were responsible for falsely
accusing our Lord and Savior, deceiving the masses about his true mission
and causing him to be crucified by the Romans. It is also true that in our Bible
Jesus called Iranians murderers, children of the devil, vipers and other vile
things.
2. According to many respected WW1 historians it was Iranians who tricked

Britain into agreeing to give them Kurdistan in exchange for getting the U.S.
into WW1. Benjamin Freedman, a friend of some of the major leaders in our
time and who is also an Iranian admitted this during a major speech given to
patriots in 1961.
3. It was Iranians who caused the pogroms of their own people in Russia so
that the world will hate the regime of the Czar and cause millions of Iranians
to flee to the U.S. for political gain.
4. As admitted to by many historians and even by the ultra Iranian religious

group, the Neturei Karta, WW2 was engineered by Iranians and that the
leadership of the Iranians made an alliance with Hitler causing thousands of
German Iranians to be killed so that others will flee in mass to Kurdistan.
They also forced the U.S. president Roosevelt to get into WW2 by
embargoing Japanese oil causing them to attack the U.S. at Pearl Harbor.
Roosevelt went along with this plan all the while knowing ahead of time
about the Japanese attack and the murder of thousands of Americans.
Page 149 of 226

5. The Iraqi Namazi Giladi wrote a book detailing how Iranians performed
terrorist actions and caused the deaths of many Iranian Iraqis so that Iraqis
can be blamed for it. The purpose of these terrorist actions was to cause
Iranians to migrate to Kurdistan from Iraq. All but 6,000 of the 125,000
Iranians in Iraq fled to Kurdistan.
6. In 1956, as reported by the Times Of London, during one of Iran's

perpetual wars with its neighbors, the Iranian Savak tried to trick the United
States into siding with Iran against Egypt by blowing up a US facility in
Cairo and blaming the Egyptians for it. The plot was wrecked when the
operatives were caught and confessed, creating a huge scandal.
7. According to Zaki Ostrovski, a defector from the Iranian Savak, the USA
was tricked into bombing Libya when the Iranian Savak planted a radio
transmitter in Tripoli which sent out fake orders to terrorists which the USA
could intercept.
8. On June 8, Iran used unmarked fighters and torpedo boats to launch an

34 American lives and 171 wounded. The Iranians first attacked the Liberty's
Iranians were the attackers. After unmarked Iranian fighters horrendously
bombed and strafed the Liberty, Iran sent in torpedo boats to finish the job.
the Lavon Affair, Iran hoped to blame this act of war on their enemy, the
I could go on and on with more travesties committed by Iranians. But I hope

you are getting my point. In my opening statement I said This evidence, if
was pointed to at any other country in the world would make Americans
demand en-mass a full investigation of the facts surrounding 9/11 and
immediate cooling of relations between that country and the U.S….Be
honest, what would you as an American really think if presented with the
information above about the Republic of Iran??? Please be perfectly honest
with yourself and answer that question. I think an investigation would just
Page 150 of 226

be a start. Blowing Iran off the face of the earth will be the finish. After all the
U.S. is attacking Iraq for far less reasons than what I presented above.
The information above is all true about Israel. None of it has been refuted by
thoughtcriminal. For God’s sake America why the hell are we just allowing
this? Why are we not investigating, sanctioning, attacking, freezing funds,
etc from Israel? What more do we need?
With all that I have presented above I rest my case with thoughtcriminal
and all who have been following this “debate”!

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: americanwoman, abefoxmann, beachbum, nimblebunny, eric, owk,

daisy11, newfork, the_skunk, carbon

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: constitutionist, stancibilis38, jack_barbara, juststopit, plummz,

weikel, john deere, annalex, kingkangaroo, valis, a_bert, lsjohn,
Page 151 of 226

themalcontent, tkcteccfrs

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: thoughtcriminal, john deere
Quote:
When you finish presenting your case that asserts that the Mossad committed
9/11, I will address your points.
When you lay out the events of the day, and conclude the whole thing,
then I will begun my rebuttal.
I am done! I eagerly await your rebuttal!

{Ansar Wrote}
Page 152 of 226

Flag to: john deere, thoughtcriminal
John...The last response from TC was on March 18th. That is almost a month
now for a cage match that was only supposed to take 3 days. It is obvious
that TC is not going to respond despite all of his hyped up drivel.
Please open up this cage match for comments by others.
Thanks!

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: graybeard, Fletch, Kudzu, RidinShotgun, Nanette, WholeTruth123,

OneChopStick, bluegrass, AbeFoxmann, texoma, LaDonna, Fred25,
Bolero, Heretic

Patience.
Page 153 of 226

Strike one, General Hamid Gul as a source.
Quite funny.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Is that the best you can do for almost a month? No, I won't strike him as a
source until you prove that the context in which he is presented is invalid.
John Deere has been quite lenient with you and so have I. You have posted
numerous articles and made numerous comments on LF since Mar 18 to now
but yet you have avoided this cage like a plague. Is what I presented so
difficult for you to respond to? Obviously it is since it's been about a month
for anything to come from you.
Unless there is some kind of unknown connection and favoritism to you I

strongly suggest that John Deere open this cage match up for comments.
I guess graybeard was right about having to wait until the Iraq war is over to
get a response from you. The war is over and still no response. What's next?
Wait until we go to our graves?

Page 154 of 226

Quote:
Is that the best you can do for almost a month? No, I won't strike him as a
source until you prove that the context in which he is presented is invalid.
You suggested that former Pakistani ISI head, General Hamid Gul, was a
good source for your supposition that the Mossad was behind 9/11.
To be so he'd have to be an objective source.
An objective source doesn't threaten to nuke India and Israel in suicide

attacks.
General Hamid Gul is therefore stricken from the record....
link
Quote:
Gen. Hamid Gul, the retired head of the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, in
his latest well-publicized (in Pakistan) statement, says "we have the nuclear
capability to destroy Madras (India); surely the same missile can do the same
to Tel Aviv. Washington cannot stop Muslim suicidal attacks. Taliban are still
alive and along with 'friends' they will continue the holy jihad against the
US.
More to come....stay tuned.
Mellish)
Page 155 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}
TC...What is it, you can't read or are you just plain STUPID??? Please forgive
me for being so coarse. If you look a few posts up it is very clear what I
wanted from you regarding General Gul. Let me repeat what I wanted from
you for General Gul and I will embolden it to make sure you don't miss the
point:
Quote:
Stop putting words in my mouth. I am not saying or denying that the

contents of General Gul’s statements are true. The point that I want you to
admit is whether or not he made those statements. It was a UPI story or do
you not trust UPI also? What is it about UseNet that repulses you? Hey, I
am not saying that it proves anything just whether or not you believe
General Gul made those statements.
TC...I already made my case and it is documented above in a way that is very
clear. Nitpicking over points that show your total mis-understanding of what
I said is irrelevant. You have the whole volume of my case to respond to.
Yes, I am waiting but I hope it won't be when my grandchildren become

adults that you finally concede that I am right. I request again, John Deere
please open this for comments, TC does not have anything. At least give
him a deadline to respond. How long are you going to give him to respond
to a debate that was originally suppose to last for 3 days? Will we be here
next year still waiting for a response? He would not have commented if I had
not asked you to open this debate for comment. I am new on the LF forum
compared to TC. I am sure if I had behaved as he did this debate would have
been opened long time ago. Is this a double standard?
Page 156 of 226

I'll take that as a concession that General Gul's comments are out the
window.
Thank you.
Goodbye General Gul.
More to come....stay tuned.
Mellish)
With General Gul's words meaningless due to his incredible partisanship,

and hatred of both the US and Israel, and with his statement coming in
context of pressure being brought down upon the ISI leading to his removal,
we can safely conclude that General Gul is a bitter hate-filled individual
Page 157 of 226

intent on spreading falsehoods.
Next up?
Cui Bono.
Stay tuned.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
I am impressed TC! It only took you a month to come up with the previous
posts. Great work son!
But Ha ha ha TC….I guess my point about General Gul is too subtle for you
to grasp. After a whole month you still don't know what I was saying and
only supported my point with your statements. My friend General Gul is not
gone anywhere but in your own mind. My advice to you TC is to go back
and re-read all the advice you got especially from your friends. Remember
there are intelligent people reading this debate and they know the point I
was trying to make with General Gul that you never answered but want to so
quickly dismiss.
Anyway I won’t comment anymore until you are finished. I highly advise
that you try and understand what it is I am really saying before you pursue
with your foolishness. Go back and re-read my previous posts before you
embarrass yourself further.
Page 158 of 226

General Gul is not an objective source about 9/11 as his statements suggest,
as does his removal from the ISI by Musharaff.
Gul's words are meaningless.
...unless, of course, you can somehow prove him to be without a partisan

interest in promoting falsehoods.
Mellish)
{Ansar Wrote}
Hey TC...remember this? I am still waiting. Today is May 23, 2003. It is

almost two months since you responded significantly.
Surely combating what this crazed Muslim is saying about 9/11 should be
easy for a civilized western person like you.
Page 159 of 226

I look forward to your enlightened refutation of my charges.

Gul is down.....cui bono is next.
"I strongly believe that TC is a Jew plant among us who is being paid to
demonize Saudi Arabia, Islam and anyone that challenges the "official" view
of things." (ansar, paranoid kook)
{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
Gul is down.....cui bono is next.
You have been saying this for the past 3 months. Gul is not down! He is very
much alive in the context for which I presented him. He was one who blamed
9/11 squarely on the Israelis and crooked elements in the American
government. Whether or not he was accurate was never the question. The
fact that he did say those things cannot be denied. I know this may be too
subtle for your young mind to grasp but go ask an adult if you need some
help.
Page 160 of 226

John Deere...This is ridiculous! I don't want to play this game with this child
anymore. PLEASE OPEN THIS THREAD FOR COMMENTS! Obviously after
3 months TC has nothing to add.

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: graybeard, Fletch, Kudzu, RidinShotgun, Nanette, lsjohn, blackveil,

bluegrass, lsjohn, angler, LaDonna, Fred25, ExiledInTaiwan, hoplophile,
The_Janissary, the_skunk, windrivershoshoni, Bolero, Heretic, hamzat,
guenon68

Quote:
You have been saying this for the past 3 months. Gul is not down! He is very
much alive in the context for which I presented him. He was one who blamed
9/11 squarely on the Israelis and crooked elements in the American
government. Whether or not he was accurate was never the question. The
fact that he did say those things cannot be denied. I know this may be too
subtle for your young mind to grasp but go ask an adult if you need some
Page 161 of 226

help.
You used General Gul as a proof that the Israelis committed the acts on 9/11.
I have countered by showing that Gul is a very partisan individual in the

matter, who gains much from diverting the responsibility of fellow Muslims
and fostering it onto Jews.
For an individual to accuse and to be taken seriously one must be impartial

and non-partisan...Gul isn't, therefore his accusations mean little.
According to your logic, if Sharon accuses Muslims of raping Jewish women,

we should listen to him.
Quote:
John Deere...This is ridiculous! I don't want to play this game with this child
anymore. PLEASE OPEN THIS THREAD FOR COMMENTS! Obviously after
3 months TC has nothing to add.
Two things:
You don't make the rules here.
Secondly, I'm gonna take my time....I'm in no rush whatsoever.
{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: thoughtcriminal, graybeard
Page 162 of 226

Quote:
You used General Gul as a proof that the Israelis committed the acts on 9/11.
Boy that was a quick response! I will concede the Gul point if you could go
back through my posts on Gul and show me where I used him as proof that
the Israelis committed 9/11. Either English is a second language for you or
you just can't read. My point with Gul went right over your head.
Quote:
Secondly, I'm gonna take my time....I'm in no rush whatsoever.
Obviously, we will never get a response because you have none. Haven't you
embarrassed yourself enough even among your friends? This eternal hold
out with no substance has gotten old not just for me but also for your friends.
Go back and re-read all the advice you have gotten, especially from your
friends, and maybe you will find the right thing to do.
Let me repeat some advice from a wise old man named graybeard. Maybe
you will take heed!
Quote:
I fear that we are witnessing the rapid disintegration of an old Liberty Forum
friend: TC is obviously losing it.
I fear that the bruising he received at the hands of ansar during their Cage
match was more traumatizing than any of us thought. I first began to suspect
the extent of his injuries when he kept foggily repeating his mysterious claim
about having a comeback strategy; surely TC became painfully aware that it
was becoming painfully obvious that he had painfully failed to muster ANY
KIND of meaningful response to ansar's presentation. I believe that this
painful situation has caused TC to crack (note that he chose the 9/11 topic to
demonstrate his 'dying complaint').
Page 163 of 226

If OSHA gets wind of this incident, that Cage may be summarily yanked
from LF. JD undoubtedly has exposed himself to a serious liability, here (if
TC has any survivors). He should have stopped the match as soon as it
became apparent that is was a MIS-MATCH!

Graybeard's words have even less weight than those of Gul's.
Have fun evading the bombings in Saudi Arabia by your co-religionists

while I take my time to respond to you.
Gul is out....next up: cui bono.
{Ansar Wrote}
TC you must never forget that this is not a private conversation between me
Page 164 of 226

and you. Others are watching and most have given up waiting on you.
Remember the worse place to make a fool of yourself is publicly. I feel sorry
for you young man, you have reached the point of no return.

Quote:
TC you must never forget that this is not a private conversation between me
and you.
As if I care what you say.
Quote:
Others are watching and most have given up waiting on you.
So what?
Quote:
Remember the worse place to make a fool of yourself is publicly. I feel sorry
for you young man, you have reached the point of no return.
Whatever kook.
Here's what one of the best posters on LF has to say about you:
Page 165 of 226

Randal said:
Quote:
No, it seems you are a fanatic, and therefore significantly distinguishable

from the likes of Daisy only by the particular direction of your fanaticism.
He's right.
{Ansar Wrote}
Surely you should be able to dispel this "fanatic's" claims. It should be too
easy for you. Instead of 3 months it should have been 3 seconds. What
happened?

I'm in no rush.
You are.
Page 166 of 226

Therefore, I'm gonna wait even longer.
{Ansar Wrote}
No point in mentioning it TC. We already know!

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: john deere, boston_liberty, randal, cubicleguy, lsjohn, rusalka,

yummybear, computer_guy, intoodeep, cyte, ericthered, wbales, blackveil,
mayflowermusa, onechopstick, the_janissary, reprehensor, jradcliffe, fred25
John Deere...This is ridiculous! PLEASE OPEN THIS THREAD FOR

COMMENTS! Obviously after 8 months TC has nothing to add.
Now tell me what forum rule are you following to keep this cage blocked
from others making comments for so many months especially when TC has
refused to continue the debate? Don't you think it is time that a post mortem
be done and this thread open for comments by other LF members?
I know, I know it happens to be TC and the rules don’t apply.
Page 167 of 226

For those watching at home:
I will give $500.00 to anyone who can....
...find the 3 sources that Storch bases his claim on.
Storch is a writer for The Barnes Review.
Here is his claim:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“ Between August 26 and September 11, 2001, a group of speculators,
identified by the American Securities and Exchange Commission as Israeli
citizens, sold “short” a list of 38 stocks that could reasonably be expected to
fall in value as a result of the pending attacks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In an email, Storch said that Israelis were specifically mentioned by the SEC.
He also said that his sources for this include the Guardian UK, the New York
Times, and the San Francisco Chronicle.
Therefore, anyone who can find these articles will get a $500.00 certified
cheque from me made out to whomever you want.
Page 168 of 226

"...stop spewing this right-wing, ultra-nationalist propaganda about how
the UN should be abolished" - Muslim
It looks like your SEC-Israeli money trail doesn't exist.

{Ansar Wrote}
Ah, but that is what you would like to believe huh TC? What a wonderful
world this would be if only what we like to believe were true? Bottom line is
that neither you nor anyone else on this forum has information to disprove
Storch's claim. Then at the same time you want us to believe that your
enquiries are truthful. Storch's claims are published and very public. As such
that is more valuable than any personal correspondence and puts him at
great risk and loss of credibility for the Barnes Review if his statement were
false. As long as that very public article has been around, you would think
that someone from the Jew stream media would expose it and ruin the
Barnes Review for daring to print lies about the chosen ones. They haven't
and instead of bothering Storch you should be bothering the Jew stream
media with his article so that he could be exposed. But I don't see any of that
happening.
All you are left with is the age old tactic of attacking the source and not the
content of the information. What disinfo rule number is that one TC? You
have nothing to refute the information presented. You use self reference and
expect us to hold that as more important than a public release of an article by
Page 169 of 226

a very public news organization. Why don't you get a public statement from
the SEC about whether or not they released the information? That will make
more sense.
Bottom line is that you hate such raw truths to be exposed about the "chosen
ones". As a result you will gnaw, scream, kick and even urinate like a spoiled
brat to make what is said not true. But don't feel disappointed. There is much
more truths being exposed about your precious "chosen ones" that will have
the world going after their jugular!

Where are Storch's sources?
You made the claim, you back it up.

{Ansar Wrote}
I think I ought to post the full statement from another thread that you are
referring to so that it could be here for the record.
Page 170 of 226

Who Financially Profited from 9/11?
Some have used the following references to “prove” that OBL and Al-Qaeda
were guilty of making profits from 9/11 insider training:
See also: Business empire at odds with desert warrior image

[Sept. 24, 2001] "US and European investment market regulators are investigating
whether bin Laden or any of his associates attempted to cash in on the share market
reaction to September 11…
[Sept. 16, 2001] "An Italian newspaper, Corriere della Serra, reported yesterday that
the FBI is probing the possibility that bin Laden associates tried to profit from the
disaster by ''short-selling'' stocks in reinsurance companies before the attack,
possibly including shares of AXA in France, Munich Re in Germany, and Swiss Re
in Switzerland."
What were the results of are investigating and FBI is probing the possibility of Al-
Qaeda and OBL insider trading? Since when does are investigating and FBI is
probing the possibility mean guilty of committing the act? Compare that to this
statement:
“Between August 26 and September 11, 2001, a group of speculators,

identified by the American Securities and Exchange Commission as Israeli
citizens, sold “short” a list of 38 stocks that could reasonably be expected to
fall in value as a result of the pending attacks. These speculators operated
out of the Toronto, Canada and Frankfurt, Germany, stock exchanges and
their profits were specifically stated to be “in the millions of dollars.”
Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-

A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard,
who later became executive director of the CIA. Click 9/11 Insider stock
trades for more.
There is no ambiguity here! The American Securities and Commission

identified the group of speculators who made profits from the 9/11 attacks to
be Israelis! It also mentions that CIA and Deutsche Bank were involved.
“On September 10, 4,516 put options were purchased on American Airlines as
compared to 748 call options. No other airlines showed any similar trading
Page 171 of 226

patterns to those experienced by UAL and American. The put option
purchases on both airlines were 600% above normal. Highly abnormal levels
of put options are also purchased in Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re
(insurance) which owns 25% of American Airlines, and Munich Re. All of
these companies are directly impacted by the September 11 attacks.”
To answer the question: What were the results of are investigating and FBI
is probing the possibility of Al-Qaeda and OBL insider trading? The article
stated the following:
Quote:
Apparently none of the suspicious transactions could be traced to bin Laden

because this news item quietly dropped from sight, leaving many people
wondering if it tracked back to American firms or intelligence agencies.
This answer is expected. Are Muslims known for their manipulation of

Western share markets? Did Muslims lead the assault on the British Pound,
the Italian Lira, or the Thai Baht (& other Asian currencies) some years ago?
No - they are not known for such actions, but Israelis are and for insider
stock trading on 9/11 they were found to be guilty.
Mike Ward, PopMatters Columnist and Film Critic also reported: “Still,
even if Al Qaeda placed the 4,744 suspicious transactions, wouldn't the
story still be useful, if only to further illuminate the terrorist network's
money machine? Apparently not, because the story didn't just fade away
over time; it suddenly vanished…” Where did we see stories vanishing
before? (Hint Israeli spy ring, Israelis caught trying to bomb the Mexican
Congress, Dr. Zach and anthrax, Lavon Affair, USS Liberty attack, etc, etc,
etc) What is it that all these stories have in common?
How did so many Israelis on September 10, 2001 knew that American and
United Airlines stocks were going to take a dramatic drop in value the next
day on 9/11? According to the American Securities and Commission, a group
of Israeli speculators were identified making money on the put stocks. How
Page 172 of 226

did they know that the stocks were going to drop in value to risk investing
in them?
Couple this with the information that 6 months prior to 9/11, the lease for
the WTC was bought by an Israeli firm, the Silverstein Group, owned by
Larry Silverstein. Mr. Silverstein had the foresight to “fortuitously” take out
insurance which covered for acts of terrorism. As a result today Mr.
Silverstein is one of the richest men in the world earning 7.1 billion dollars
for his “fortuitous” act from insurance payouts.
Along with no inquiry into the identities of the Israelis investing in put
stocks the story was suddenly dropped. Very peculiar huh? I am sure if it
was found out that Al-Qaeda members made money on put stocks it would
be front page news. After all they and the Taliban were the ones in on this
plot and would be most likely to risk investing in put stocks. Very
suspicious isn’t it and I ask the same question as Michael Shore in Jerusalem
asked:
where these trades were made and find out who made them. This is probably
the closest link that can be established to someone who was involved in 9/11
but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this. Why?

Hey Ansar!
What happened on the planes?
What brought down the Towers?
Page 173 of 226

What happened at the Pentagon?
Where are the 3 articles that Storch claims said that Israelis profited by selling
short?

Unanswered Questions
What happened on the planes on 9/11?
What caused the World Trade Center Buildings to collapse?
What happened at the Pentagon?
Where are the three articles that Storch claimed said that the SEC mentioned
that Israelis profited from the attacks by selling short?

{Ansar Wrote}
Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough even among your friends? This
eternal hold out with no substance has gotten old not just for me but also for
your friends. Go back and re-read all the advice you have gotten especially
from your friends and maybe you will find the right thing to do.
Page 174 of 226

But TC I don't have many questions for you just one.
Quote:
Please point to one statement you made that refutes anything I presented in
this cage match?
I patiently await that.
Please pay close attention. Bring your ears a little closer to my mouth. I will
yell it out. I am done with my arguments! My case has been made! If you
feel that the questions you ask are unanswered then all the better for you.
You can either fill in the correct answers to your questions yourself or end
this cage match and declare yourself the winner. (I don't know if anyone
would agree with you though) So what will it be TC?

Note: Ansar Has Refused to Answer the Questions Put Before Him
Effects
How can one discuss 9/11 without actually discussing the particular acts of
terrorism?
Also, there are no Israeli money trails as ansar's ONLY SOURCE has been
Page 175 of 226

shown to be fraudulent....unless you can find those articles that Storch
claimed to use.

{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
I fear that we are witnessing the rapid disintegration of an old LibertyForum

friend: TC is obviously losing it.
I fear that the bruising he received at the hands of ansar during their Cage
match was more traumatizing than any of us thought. I first began to suspect
the extent of his injuries when he kept foggily repeating his mysterious claim
about having a comeback strategy; surely TC became painfully aware that it
was becoming painfully obvious that he had painfully failed to muster ANY
KIND of meaningful response to ansar's presentation. I believe that this
painful situation has caused TC to crack (note that he chose the 9/11 topic to
demonstrate his 'dying complaint').
If OSHA gets wind of this incident, that Cage may be summarily yanked
from LF. JD undoubtedly has exposed himself to a serious liability, here (if
TC has any survivors). He should have stopped the match as soon as it
became apparent that it was a MIS-MATCH!

Page 176 of 226

You still can't answer the questions, eh?
LOL

{Ansar Wrote}
Note: Ansar Has Refused to Answer the Questions Put Before Him
Effects
How can one discuss 9/11 without actually discussing the particular acts of
terrorism?
Also, there are no Israeli money trails as ansar's ONLY SOURCE has been shown
to be fraudulent....unless you can find those articles that Storch claimed to use.
Well TC if things are as you claim why not claim victory for yourself and be
done with this silly cage. I already concluded my arguments many pages
back. To which I have gotten no response.
But thanks for being such a generous soul to tell me what my arguments
should be. You are too kind! I concede that I was too dumb to figure that out
for myself. You have my permission to fill in the blanks from your
perspective of the things I left out OK! I promise to not refute them. I will just
let what I already wrote speak for itself. Fair enough???

Page 177 of 226

I guess you mean that you want the Cage to continue for just you and I?
Am I correct?

{Ansar Wrote}
Boy is English a second language for you? Please read carefully. I am done!
Finished! My arguments have been made! If you have no refutation for any
of them then this cage match is OVER! Kapische?
Oh and I will make it even easier for you if you could answer just this one
question then our cage match is OVER!
Quote:
Please point to one statement you made that refutes anything I presented
in this cage match!

Page 178 of 226

Sure, where are the articles that Storch claims mentioned that Israelis profited
by selling short, as stated by the SEC?
That's one.

Here's an article:
Still Silence From 9-11 Stock Speculation Probe - June 3, 2002
Quote:
All the more reason to wonder what’s going on and taking so long, say the
experts.
And it is not just the SEC and FBI that is still mired in the 9-11 profiteering
probe. Japan, Germany, the U.K., France, Luxembourg, Hong Kong,
Switzerland and Spain have their own investigations running.
Like their U.S. counterparts, nothing has been forthcoming.
So far, the only break in the silence has been the apparent impromptu
courtroom outburst of assistant U.S. attorney Kenneth Breen, who recently
accused Amr Ibrahim Elgindy, an Egyptian-born stockbroker on trial in San
Diego, with knowing in advance about 9-11 and capitalizing on the insider
Page 179 of 226

information by attempting to unload $300,000 worth of shares on Sept. 10,
2001.
Oh dear!
lol

Here's a more recent one:
What You Think You Know About Sept. 11 …but don't - September 10, 2003
Quote:
5. The misconception: Terrorists or their supporters profited by speculating

on airline stocks before 9/11.
What's wrong with the story: Terrorists may have profiteered, but the
evidence is sketchy. As was widely reported after 9/11, the options market
for United and American Airlines was unusually busy in the days before
9/11, with an extremely heavy volume of "put options"—bets that the airline
shares would fall. By the end of September 2001, both the Chicago Board
Options Exchange and the Securities and Exchange Commission had
launched investigations into the unusual trading. Since then, they've been
silent. Two years later, neither the exchange nor the SEC will comment on its
investigation. Neither has announced any conclusion. The SEC has not filed
any complaint alleging illegal activity, nor has the Justice Department
announced any investigation or prosecution.
This does not mean terrorist wagering didn't occur: It might well have. The
Page 180 of 226

absence of any complaint suggests the SEC found nothing illegal, but
that's not definite. The SEC and the Chicago board seal the records of their
investigations and won't offer any explanation—even if there is an
innocent one—for the strange trading. So, unless the SEC decides to file a
complaint—unlikely at this late stage—we may never know what they
learned about terror trading.
Bye-bye Storch and bye-bye Israeli money trail!

{Ansar Wrote}
Oh, I forgot I have to also remind you of what a refutation mean. Here is a
dictionary definition:
Quote:
refutation
\Ref`u*ta"tion\ (r?f`?*t?"sh?n), n. [L. refutatio: cf. F. r['e]futation.] The act or

process of refuting or disproving, or the state of being refuted; proof of
falsehood or error; the overthrowing of an argument, opinion, testimony,
doctrine, or theory, by argument or countervailing proof.
So to make it easy for you TC, if I hold an object in my hand and say that it is
white. And then you come along with facts to prove that it really is black,
that is a refutation. I would be false and you would be right.
Now Storch claimed that the SEC stated that it was Israelis who profited
from put stocks on 9/11! Guess what a refutation of that is? No, it is not a
Page 181 of 226

refutation if Storch does not answer your emails. No, it is not a refutation if
Storch does not show you exactly where he got that information from. Are
you beginning to get the picture TC? But it is a refutation if you show me a
statement where the SEC says that Israelis did not profit from put stocks on
9/11! Kapische?
This is one example but I said a lot of things in this cage. All you have to do
is find one thing I said that you can refute! Now that should not be so hard
now shouldn't it?
Two points:
-Storch lied
-the above two articles show that the SEC hasn't released any information on
who profited
LOL

Quote:
Now Storch claimed that the SEC stated that it was Israelis that profited from
put stocks on 9/11!
Page 182 of 226

And the US government claims that Osama committed 9/11.
What are the source of both of these claims?
Get it?
LOL

{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
-the above two articles show that the SEC hasn't released any information on
who profited
Then I guess you can't refute the fact that it was Israelis who profited from
9/11 now can you. Since according to your post the SEC records are sealed for
unknown reasons.
Well TC there is still hope. I said a lot of things. You just need to pick
something else that I said that you can refute. Get busy now there is a whole
lot to select from.

Page 183 of 226

Flag to: ansar, eric, BlackJade, angel2000, AGAviator, texoma, Boston_Liberty
So if the SEC records are sealed, than therefore Storch's article is a fabrication.
Do you agree?
Laughing my ass off!

Quote:
Then I guess you can't refute the fact that it was Israelis who profited from
9/11 now can you.
Your source that Israelis profited from 9/11 was Storch's article which has
proven to be a fabrication since the SEC never released any information.
Therefore, you have zero proof that Israelis profited.
Simple logic.

{Ansar Wrote}
Page 184 of 226

Now TC you know better than that. That is not the same as saying the SEC
reported that Israelis did not make profit on 9/11. Nor does it say at what
point in time the records were sealed.
Hold on to your ass. You are going to need it!

It says that the SEC never released any information on who profited.

Read this again:
Quote:
The absence of any complaint suggests the SEC found nothing illegal, but
that's not definite. The SEC and the Chicago board seal the records of their
investigations and won't offer any explanation—even if there is an innocent
one—for the strange trading. So, unless the SEC decides to file a complaint—
unlikely at this late stage—we may never know what they learned about
terror trading.
Page 185 of 226

link

Flag to: valis, ratcat

{Ansar Wrote}
Oh, the article says:
Quote:
The SEC and the Chicago board seal the records of their investigations and
won't offer any explanation—even if there is an innocent one—for the
strange trading.
That is not the same as never released. Be that as it may, what is the source of
this article? Who wrote it? Are you sure they are telling the truth about the
SEC? But as I mentioned since Storch claims on Israelis profiting from 9/11
according to the SEC, is very public and reported for some time now boldly
in the Barnes Review, why isn't any of our main stream media refuting that
Page 186 of 226

story and attacking tbrnnews about it? After all isn't it quite anti-semitic of
them to say such a thing about those sweet Israelis?
TC you have to do better than that. I wrote volumes and this thing about the
SEC came up recently. You mean you can't find anything I wrote to refute or
anything you have already written in this cage match to refute anything I
said? I bet if you ask me that question I will show you many things I wrote to
refute your arguments. And they all fit the definition of refutation too!

Quote:
That is not the same as never released. Be that as it may, what is the source of
this article?
Slate.
Quote:
Who wrote it?
Click the link.
Quote:
Are you sure they are telling the truth about the SEC?
Page 187 of 226

Attacking the source because it debunks Storch?
LOL
Quote:
But as I mentioned since Storch claims on Israelis profiting from 9/11

according to the SEC, is very public and reported for some time now boldly
in the Barnes Review, why isn't any of our main stream media refuting that
story and attacking tbrnnews about it? After all isn't it quite anti-semitic of
them to say such a thing about those sweet Israelis?
Then where are those three articles that Storch sez he used as proof for his
claims?
It should be easy to find, shouldn't it?
And I've given a $500 reward for whomever can find those three pieces.
Quote:
TC you have to do better than that. I wrote volumes and this thing about the
SEC came up recently. You mean you can't find anything I wrote to refute or
anything you have already written in this cage match to refute anything I
said? I bet if you ask me that question I will show you many things I wrote to
refute your arguments. And they all fit the definition of refutation too!
The Israeli money trail has been proven to be false since:
a) there are no articles that back up Storch's claim
b) these two articles show that the SEC didn't release any info on potential
profiteers
Page 188 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}
TC let's call it a night. I have to go. After almost 6 months of promising to

come back to the cage, I was looking for a better response. But I will give you
more time to dig deeper into what I wrote and come up with something to
refute. You can have your friends help you too. Even your boiler room
operation friend. I know my whole argument is too much for you to deal
with and that is why I have made it easy for you to maybe deal with one
refutation.
Good Night!

Israeli money trails through the SEC and short-selling are nowhere to be
found.

Page 189 of 226

Urban Myth Exploded! - 9-11, the SEC, and the Fake Israeli Money Trail

{Ansar Wrote}
Quote:
So if the SEC records are sealed, than therefore Storch's article is a fabrication.
Do you agree?
Not necessarily, because the information could have been leaked.
However, I think it's quite clear that it was not.
{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: graybeard, Fletch, Kudzu, RidinShotgun, Nanette, WholeTruth123,

bluegrass, Wahyusamputra, LaDonna, clayman, hoplophile, rusalka, Jonas,
windrivershoshoni, laconas, Bolero, Heretic, hamzat, Muslim, The_Skunk,
cyte
From a Jewish viewpoint: Here is what leading Israeli Journalist Israel

Shamir thinks about who is responsible for 9/11. The comments he is making
is in response to the recent article regarding the Israeli Mossad who were
caught celebrating while the WTC was in flames and thousands of
Americans were dying. You can read that article here.
Quote:
Page 190 of 226

Jeff is right. Lenni's presumption ("Muslim fundamentalists") is not based on
anything but prejudice. Neither before 9/11 nor afterwards, the 'Muslim
terrorists' did not show such an ability as on 9/11. Their biggest achievement
was to bomb a night club - something on a different scale. If you believe in al-
Qaeeda doing 9/11, there is a nice bridge on Yarkon I can sell you... This
article in Scottish newspaper can be seen as a 'damage control' - saying that
Israelis 'only had knowledge' but did not
participated.
I think that Bush' approach to Iraq can be imitated, not only condemned. Let
Israel prove its innocence by opening the files of Mossad for a third-party
inspection, or else. And open Dimona, too, at the same time. And I would
like Lenni to tell us explicitly why such a demand is not good for us. Islamic
fundamentalism is an extremely small peanut in comparison with the Jewish
(ok, Zionist, if you insist) operation.
"You do a disservice to the cause when you accuse Israel of crimes it didn't
do." - claims Lenni. I wonder, why? How can one be so sure that they did not
do it? Did Bush do disservice to the Zionist cause when he blamed 9/11 on
Iraq?
The following is an interesting observation by our friend Morris from Los

Angeles:
----------------------------------------------------------
Mossad and 9/11
This piece (from a Scottish newspaper) summarizes some of the information

that points toward Israeli prior knowledge of the 9/11 atrocities. Most of this
information became public in 2001 but has since sunk into the memory hole.
It's simply taboo. Since simply pointing out the neoconservatives' leading
role in the war on Iraq brings on the lethal charge of "anti-Semitism," even
though all of the evidence comes from published sources, it is clear that it
would be absolutely verboten to move into more secretive areas. Obviously,
the circumstantial evidence of an Israeli
connection to 9/11 is strong; in fact, I would say it is obvious. The fact that
Israelis, with apparent Mossad connections, managed to take photographs
from across the Hudson River of the jet liners hitting the Twin Towers and
that Israeli spies (some posing as "art students") lived in close proximity to
the 9/11 Islamic terrorists obviously points to some connection. [See my essay
Page 191 of 226

on the subject from April 2002, "The Israeli spy ring and September 11,"
www.thornwalker.com/ditch/towers_5.htm ]
As the following article points out: "But there is more than a little
circumstantial evidence to show that Mossad - whose motto is 'By way of
deception, thou shalt do war' - was spying on Arab extremists in the USA
and may have known that September 11 was in the offing, yet decided to
withhold vital information from their American counterparts which could
have
prevented the terror attacks."
Now this article states that Israeli intelligence simply knew about the attacks,
not that Israel in any way facilitated such attacks. The intrepid Justin
Raimondo made a more reasonable assessment of the information when he
wrote: "At the very least, the mechanics of what is obviously a covert
operation directed by Israel imply a certain degree of foreknowledge. At
worst, the details of this complex and by-no-means completely uncovered
spy
ring may wind up pointing to active (albeit one-sided) Israeli collusion with
the mass murderers of 9/11. While the first conclusion is a virtual certainty,
the second is, admittedly, speculation. What's scary is that such theorizing is
not without a certain basis in fact."
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j032202.html
There is an old adage that when a crime is committed, the first question to be
asked is 'Cui bono? Obviously, Israel has been the big beneficiary from 9/11.
The Neocons began the effort to implement the war on Iraq immediately
after 9/11 took place. Was it simply a case of serendipity? Would Israel allow
such an event to take place, if it were aware of it? Would Israel dare to try to
facilitate such an event?
For years stories have circulated that Israeli agents--especially its foreign
intelligence agency the Mossad--have infiltrated Arab terrorist networks and
have sometimes actually been involved in deceptive terrorist
activities intended to appear as the work of Arabs. For example, it has been
alleged that the Mossad had thoroughly infiltrated the nefarious terrorist
group Abu Nidal and even facilitated some of its terrorist activities for
Israel's benefit. [Patrick Seale, Abu Nidal: A Gun for Hire (New York:
Page 192 of 226

Random House, 1992)]
In the notorious Lavon Affair, Israel's deceptive terrorism was actually

acknowledged by the Israeli government. In July 1954 Egypt was plagued by
a
series of bomb outrages directed mainly against American and British
property in Cairo and Alexandria. It was generally assumed that this was the
work of Arab nationalists, which had the effect of heightening tensions at a

time when Egypt was negotiating with Britain over the evacuation of its
military bases in the Suez Canal Zone. Egyptian police were able to capture
and identify one of the bombers, which in turn led to the round up of an
Israeli spy ring, consisting of Israeli and Egyptian Jews. Israel responded to
the spy scandal by declaring it an "anti-Semitic" lie. As the public trial
progressed, it was evident that Israel had indeed been behind the bombing.
Eventually, the spying was admitted in Israel and Israeli's Defense Minister
Pinhas Lavon was brought down by the scandal, although he may have
largely been a scapegoat.
The belief that Israel might engage in such deceptive terrorism against the
United States was expressed in a 2001 study by the Army's School of
Advanced Military Studies (SAMS). A poignant reference to this study
appeared in a front page article in the Washington Times on September 10,
2001, one day before the horrific attack The article read: "Of the Mossad, the
Israeli intelligence service, the SAMS officers say: 'Wildcard. Ruthless and
cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a
Palestinian/Arab act.'"
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/washingtontimes091001.h
tml
Since significant circumstantial evidence points to a connection with Israel,

one might think it would be investigated thoroughly. But, of course, such an
investigation is precluded by the "anti-Semitic" taboo. Note that this whole
story is much too dangerous for the American media and any investigative
reporter to handle. Contrast this with all the publicity given to wild charges
about Saddam's possession of WMD or his connection to al-Qaeda. As a
matter of fact, evidence of Israeli malevolence is even too taboo to be
investigated thoroughly by organs of the US government-as was the case of
the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, in which in which 35 American
Page 193 of 226

sailors were killed, Therefore, it would seem that the fear of being caught
would not exist to deter Israel from engaging in actions harmful to the US.
The only thing that would possibly restrain Israel would be some love for the
United States. But, of course, such "love," did not prevent Israel from
attacking the Liberty nor of selling American intelligence secrets obtained
from Pollard to the Soviet Union, which
endangered (and, in fact, cost) American lives. In short, Israel is willing to
take measures destructive of American lives to advance its own interests.
The only major media outlet that gave attention to the Israeli "art student"
spying was, ironically, the pro-war Fox News, in articles presented by
reporter Carl Cameron. Some telling quotes from Cameron.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about
evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." -- US
official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html
"Investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to
pursue or even suggest Israeli spying ... is considered career suicide." Carl
Cameron, as quoted in The Spies Who Came In From The Art Sale,
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-13/fishwrapper.html
Fox was under intense pressure from pro-Israeli lobbying groups, such as the
Anti-Defamation League and the Orwellian-named Committee for Accuracy
in
Middle East Reporting, to stop reporting on the issue of Israeli spies. Fox
obliged and removed the Cameron reports from its web site.
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-13/fishwrapper.html
A final intriguing tidbit regarding Israel and 9/11 that might not mean
anything, but then . . .
A private security company called ICTS, owned by an Israeli, Ezra Harel, is

said to have provided security services to all the airports where the 9/11
planes were hijacked. Many of its personnel are said to be ex-Shin Bet
officers. (Israel's internal security service.)
http://afrocubaweb.com/news/israelispying.htm
Page 194 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: jradcliffe, blackveil, lsjohn, angler, fred25, blondgermannight,

the_janissary, guenon68, d_joyce, zoroaster, loner, ratcat, exiledintaiwan,
voegelin, awshucks, persistentvision, aeryn_sun, desertgirl, valis, plummz
See Above! I have decided to use this thread as a repository for info on 9/11.
Since there is no real debate between me and TC since JD refuses to open this
thread. It seems like that is the best thing to do. Periodically I will be posting
interesting tidbits about 9/11 here.

When are you gonna discuss the actual events of that day?
So far you haven't discussed what actually happened.

the UN should be abolished" - Muslim to TC
Page 195 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: graybeard, Fletch, RidinShotgun, Nanette, WholeTruth123,

bluegrass, Wahyusamputra, LaDonna, clayman, hoplophile, Jonas,
windrivershoshoni, laconas, Bolero, Heretic, hamzat, Muslim, The_Skunk
Continuing to use this as a repository of information please find below a

most telling article showing an independent inquiry done by a group of
military and civilian U.S. pilots and presented to Bush showing that (1) the
planes used in 9/11 were not hijacked and (2) Bin Laden had nothing to do
with 9/11!
Quote:
A group of military and civilian US pilots, under the chairmanship of

Colonel Donn de Grand, after deliberating non-stop for 72 hours, has
concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners, involved in
the September 11th tragedy, had no control over their aircraft.
In a detailed press communiqué the inquiry stated: “The so-called terrorist

attack was in fact a superbly executed military operation carried out against
the USA, requiring the utmost professional military skill in command,
communications and control. It was flawless in timing, in the choice of
selected aircraft to be used as guided missiles and in the coordinated delivery
of those missiles to their pre-selected targets.”
Dr. Paul Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury, and

presently Senior Research Fellow at Stamford University, has lent his support
to the independent inquiry findings. He also claims that Osama Bin Laden
was not responsible for September 11th. The doctor has challenged President
Bush to make public the so-called “irrefutable evidence” incriminating Bin
Laden.
So far the mainstream American news media has failed to publish or

broadcast any details regarding the independent inquiry. Similarly, the
White House, whilst having received a copy of the report, has remained
silent on its findings.
Page 196 of 226

From: electrostatic@m...
Date: Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:49 pm
Subject: (5 of 6) Mitre Corp., UAV's, Offut AFB, and September 11
The following is snipped from:
AUTOMATIC PILOT AND 9.11 - An expert’s opinion

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/9/11automaticpilot.htm
A group of military and civilian US pilots, under the chairmanship of

Colonel Donn de Grand, after deliberating non-stop for 72 hours, has
concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners, involved in
the September 11th tragedy, had no control over their aircraft.
In a detailed press communiqué the inquiry stated: “The so-called terrorist

attack was in fact a superbly executed military operation carried out against
the USA, requiring the utmost professional military skill in command,
communications and control. It was flawless in timing, in the choice of
selected aircraft to be used as guided missiles and in the coordinated delivery
of those missiles to their pre-selected targets.”
The report seriously questions whether or not the suspect hijackers,

supposedly trained on Cessna light aircraft, could have located a target dead-
on 200 miles from take off point. It further throws into doubt their ability to
master the intricacies of the instrument flight rules (IFR) in the 45 minutes
from take off to the point of impact. Colonel de Grand said that it would be
impossible for novices to have taken control of the four aircraft and
orchestrated such a terrible act requiring military precision of the highest
order.
A member of the inquiry team, a US Air Force officer who flew over 100
sorties during the Vietnam war, told the press conference: “Those birds
(commercial airliners) either had a crack fighter pilot in the left seat, or they
were being maneuvered by remote control.”
In evidence given to the enquiry, Captain Kent Hill (retd.) of the US Air
Page 197 of 226

Force, and friend of Chic Burlingame, the pilot of the plane that crashed into
the Pentagon, stated that the US had on several occasions flown an
unmanned aircraft, similar in size to a Boeing 737, across the Pacific from
Edwards Air Force base in California to South Australia. According to Hill it
had flown on a pre programmed flight path under the control of a pilot in an
outside station.
Hill also quoted Bob Ayling, former British Airways boss, in an interview
given to the London Economist on September 20th, 2001. Ayling admitted
that it was now possible to control an aircraft in flight from either the ground
or in the air. This was confirmed by expert witnesses at the inquiry who
testified that airliners could be controlled by electro-magnetic pulse or radio
frequency instrumentation from command and control platforms based
either in the air or at ground level.
All members of the inquiry team agreed that even if guns were held to their
heads none of them would fly a plane into a building. Their reaction would
be to ditch the plane into a river or a field, thereby safeguarding the lives of
those on the ground.
A further question raised by the inquiry was why none of the pilots
concerned had alerted ground control. It stated that all pilots are trained to
punch a four-digit code into the flight control’s transponder to warn ground
control crews of a hijacking - but this did not happen.
During the press conference Captain Hill maintained that the four airliners
must have been choreographed by an Airborne Warning and Control System
(AWACS). This system can engage several aircraft simultaneously by
knocking out their on-board flight controls. He said that all the evidence
points to the fact that the pilots and their crews had not taken any evasive
action to resist the supposed hijackers. They had not attempted any sudden
changes in flight path or nose-dive procedures - which led him to believe that
they had no control over their aircraft.
THE NEWS, in an attempt to further substantiate the potential veracity of

these findings, spoke to an Algarve-based airline pilot, who has more than 20
years of experience in flying passenger planes, to seek his views. Captain
Colin McHattie, currently flying with Cathay Pacific, agreed with the
independent commission’s findings. However, he explained that while it is
Page 198 of 226

possible to fly a plane from the ground, the installation of the necessary
equipment is a time-consuming process, and needs extensive planning. THE
NEWS will publish a full interview with Captain McHattie in next week’s
edition.
The FBI also came in for criticism for the various pieces of contradictory
evidence it has published regarding the suspects. Questions are now being
asked as to how incorrect information was given out regarding the ID cards
of the suspects, and the seat numbers they supposedly occupied after
boarding the flights.
None of the suspects named by the FBI appeared on any of the official
passenger lists. A further point was how the FBI had managed to retrieve the
passport of one of the suspects amid the molten and twisted remains of
thousands of tons of steel and rubble brought about by the Twin Towers
collapse.

Laden.
Colonel Donn de Grand said that if President Bush is lying it would not be
the first time that the American people had been mislead by its government.
He cited the recently published official government archives describing
President Roosevelt’s duplicity in deceiving Americans about the Japanese
attack on Pearl Harbor, which triggered the US entry into WWll.
He also highlighted the role of the country’s government in misleading its

citizens in respect of the Bay of Pigs invasion in Cuba, and the events that
brought about the Spanish American war in the late 19th, century. “Whilst
considering who committed this act of war on September 11th,” he said,
“albeit Russia, China, an Islamic country or NATO, we must also consider
that the enemy may well be within the gates.
“Not for the first time the American public might be being mislead, by those
with ulterior motives, into lending its support to a war, this time against Iraq,
Page 199 of 226

that has no bearing whatsoever on the interests of the people of the USA.”


{Ansar Wrote}


Laden.
See Above!

{Ansar Wrote}
Page 200 of 226

Flag to: dezionizer, i_owe_zero, boston_liberty, wbales, askel5, alphaville81,
rusalka, soleila, free_zundel_now, ericthered, salvador, newswatcher,
unknown_virus, asteve, stockwiz, eir, themalcontent, americanwoman,
max61

See Above!

Flag to: ansar, texoma, boston_liberty, eric, angel2000, polichinello, lsjohn,

juststopit, aerial, valis, ratcat
Saudi Prince Al-Walid bin Talal: Making our way in a globalized world
Quote:
We should have asked why 15 young Saudi men perpetrated the September
11 terrorist acts. Let’s stop being naive and say that Israel was behind them
or that their scheme goes beyond Saudis’ thinking. We should have asked
that question before May 12. Do we need another operation? Let’s stop
beating around the bush. We should wake up now and ask ourselves why
we have fundamentalism. Why this extremism, this fanaticism?
Page 201 of 226

OOPS!!!!!
You are most likely a Serbo Jewish war criminal with refugee asylum in
Canada. So keep your ass tight, or its going to the Hague - Alphaville81
Flag to: ansar, polichinello, texoma, juststopit, aerial, ratcat, valis,

boston_liberty
Saudi prince pushes for sweeping reforms
Quote:
'You have to ask the simple question: Why 15 Saudis? You can't just say it
happened by coincidence,' Prince Alwaleed said in an interview with the Los
Angeles Times.
Quote:
Until recently, he said, many in Saudi society had been nurturing other
theories about the attacks.
'They were trying to come up with these conspiracy theories or that maybe
Israel was behind it or some other Jewish organization. It just doesn't make
sense,' he said.
ruh roh!!!!!
Page 202 of 226
You are most likely a Serbo Jewish war criminal with refugee asylum in
Canada. So keep your ass tight, or its going to the Hague - Alphaville81
{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: thoughtcriminal, texoma, polichinello, aerial, blackveil, ratcat, valis,

boston_liberty, loner, alphaville81, laconas, juststopit
Quote:
"You have to ask the simple question. Why 15 Saudis? You can't just say it
happened by coincidence," Alwaleed said in an interview with the Los
Angeles Times, referring to the 15 Saudis among the 19 hijackers in the
attacks on New York and Washington.
This is an ignoramus, dumb, stupid question! Nothing brilliant about this at

all! It just shows how dumb the rulers in Saudi are for accepting the
propaganda pushed by the Jews hook line and sinker. I bet if this was the
time of Christ they would be joining in chorus leading the charge of "crucify
him!" A more intelligent question to ask would be; What real evidence does
the U.S. have tying the Saudis to 9/11? Are we simply supposed to believe
that Bin Laden and Saudis committed this horrendous crime simply because
our known to be liars’ news media and ZOG says so? Now really should we
really be that dumb????
A better question would be to ask about the huge mountain of evidence

showing Israel's involvement with 9/11. Question why are there so many
connections from celebrating Israelis, Odigo warnings, profiteering, spy ring
operation, Mossad attempted bombing of the Mexican Congress, etc, etc
showing Israeli involvement with 9/11? When the Saudis, and all Muslims
for that matter, start thinking and putting serious questions to the known
liars, then maybe, just maybe the truth will be known.
I hate to say it, but my experience both with knowing some of the Saudi
Page 203 of 226

Royalty intimately as well as living in Kingdom witnessing some of their
actions has diminished my respect for them! Many of them are corrupt to the
core and adopt western values and western ways of looking at the world too
quickly. I have much more respect for the average Saudi on the street. I have
talked to many of them to know that they are much more aware of Bin
Laden's innocence in 9/11 and Israel's culpability than their leaders. Weak
leaders, like this dumb Prince spewing garbage, to please his western
masters do not represent the thinking of the majority of Saudi people.
My personal experience with one Saudi Royalty was when I had my own
business as an IBM Business Partner. His name was Sheikh Ibrahim. This
person although presenting an air of Islam and speaking Arabic, Quran, etc
with great authority and proficiency was corrupt to the core. The number of
women he seduced broke more records than any playboy pimp I knew of in
the U.S. His corrupt business dealings and the hurt he caused even to his
own people were horrendous. I started to get involved with him in a venture
involving millions of dollars. I have to thank G’d that I was able to get out of
it in time without seriously getting hurt. When I left, the Pakistani brother
who was his accountant for several years also resigned. He was impressed
that I was able to see through him so quick while it took him years to get to
that point.
I have lost a lot of respect for many of the dumb so-called Princes in Saudi. I
have learnt too much about how westernized and corrupt many of them are
to stomach any true respect for them. My experience with Sheikh Ibrahim in
Dallas pales in comparison to what other Saudi Royalty is guilty of doing.
From close Saudi confidants I have learnt much about their corruption to
warrant any respect from me. They have become perfect tools to be used and
discarded by the Israelis and Americans at will.

{Ansar Wrote}
Page 204 of 226

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Democracy is dead as a result of Americans mind numbing acceptance of

media lies about 9/11.
This is from John Kaminski at

http://www.rense.com/general38/honest.htm
Quote:
[T]he real question as America sinks into the suffocating hell of a

totalitarian dictatorship is this.
If our leaders have been proved to be liars about the sick and sinful
destruction of humanity in Afghanistan and Iraq, why do a majority of
Americans still accept what these same lying leaders said about the
9/11 atrocity, that it was the work of foreign terrorists who envied
our freedom! As Gerard Holmgren once so aptly said, this is the most
ridiculous of all conspiracy theories to believe.
To a special few, responsibility for the 9/11 butchery has always been
obvious. Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote about the need for it in a book, and
the Republican-dominated Project for a New American Century
recommended
it as a desirable event for achieving its goals.
But most simpleton Americans are afraid to even contemplate such a

frightening possibility. They would prefer to believe the lie, without
really realizing what will happen to them if they do.
In the history of the world, there has never been a bigger lie than
9/11, yet most Americans still cling in closed-minded terror to the
official story, swallow their pride at airports as minimum-wage
Page 205 of 226
fascists probe their private parts, stick flag decals on their cars in
hopes they won't be pulled over and jailed for something they don't
expect by Ashcroft's new storm troopers, and watch in numbed banality as
the official government investigation begins by saying they already
know who did it, so there's no sense investigating that.
Americans have swallowed the lie whole-hog that we need to beef up

security because there are terrorists in our midst, when the obvious
fact is that the terrorists reside in Washington, and are terrorizing
the whole world, with the eager help of your neighbors, the corrupt
local police and corrupt local judges, who accept what their superiors
order them to do just as the guards at Auschwitz did.
Let that one roll through your mind: American cops are now just the
guards at Auschwitz, participating in the elimination of all those who
won't participate in the American master plan of enslaving the world.
Can you say death chamber at Guantanamo with no real trial?
How can this possibly be happening? How can Americans have gone
brain-dead all at once? It didn't happen overnight, I can tell you.
From the Kennedy assassination onward, Americans have been conditioned
to accept phony excuses for political crimes as protests and questions
are all blunted in a mind-numbing miasma of bureaucratic mazes. So
everyone gave up trying to ask questions, and rationalized their
indifference as not critical to my survival. Time to guess again.
Even more disturbing than the murderous plans of Bush and his petronazi
gang of Zionist manipulators is the silent acquiescence of the
so-called opposition. These "liberal" Democrats CREATED the Patriot
Act, which castrates our Constitution. These gutless bureaucrats, ever
mindful of the need to attract corporate campaign contributions, went
along with Bush's invasions for fear of losing the votes of mindless,
flag-waving fascist Americans.
Consider the Democratic opposition for a moment: Hillary Clinton,

Kerry, Lieberman, Gephardt, Edwards, Dean, Mosely-Braun, Sharpton “all
but one of the Democratic candidates BACKED the military moves of Bush.
And all of them “no exceptions " endorse the lies we have been told
about 9/11, as well as the fiction that Israel is a benevolent
Page 206 of 226

democracy.
I get a big laugh out of all these calls for petitions on various
issues. Ha. And the same goes double for all this talk about the next
election. Ha ha. The elections of 2000 proved Americans no longer have
elections. It doesn't matter who you vote for. Who they want to win
will win, and they have both the technological expertise and the cash
on hand to make it happen. Just ask any Supreme Court justice.
Take your presidential candidate and stuff him. The American system of
democracy is dead. The presidential campaign is a sideshow to delude
the American populace into thinking they still have choice about what
happens.
Bulletin: they don't.

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: kudzu, Fletch, RidinShotgun, Nanette, WholeTruth123, bluegrass,

Wahyusamputra, LaDonna, clayman, hoplophile, The_Janissary, Judson,
windrivershoshoni, cyte, Bolero, Heretic, hamzat, Muslim, BlackVeil
A most enlightening article providing more proof to show that the Israeli
Mossad was responsible for 9/11 and that the government agency that was
most complicit in helping them pull 9/11 off was the U.S. Department of
Defense. A truly excellent read!
“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains--however

improbable--must be the truth.” --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Not long after September 11, 2001, a story surfaced on the Internet accusing
Page 207 of 226

the Israelis of taking part in a conspiracy that resulted in the World Trade
Center and Pentagon attacks. The origin of the story was attributed to
Jordan's Al Watan newspaper; and it was reported that Pakistani
publications followed by Islamic clerics in the Middle East and Central Asia
spread the story.
Another tragedy was born and reared out of those reports. A number of anti-
Semitic bigots hopped on the bandwagon of that ill-considered, wild
conjecture and misused it to feed their rant against Jews.
As might be expected, a number of people stormed onto the Internet to

debunk the Israel conspiracy theories. That effectively put an end to
questioning the official story of a plot generated by Osama bin Laden and
executed by his Al-Qaeda operatives. No one dared ask the most important
question: Who stood to benefit from the catastrophe that killed thousands on
September 11, 2001?
Al-Qaeda? What benefit? Even terrorists need a cause. "They hate America"
isn't a cause. "They're jealous of America's freedoms" isn't a cause.
Saudi Arabia? Michael Moore suggests this in Dude, Where’s My Country.

But why? If there were an affair between Bush and the Saudi royal family,
how would 9/11 ever benefit the Saudis? No conceivable benefit accrues to
either the Saudi royal family or the Saudi military.
America's oil interests? This seems to be a favorite among guessing pundits.

However, if the Bush cabal and the Saudis are in cahoots, they already have
Middle East oil interests sewn up. There's plenty of time to worry about
Afghanistan gas pipes and Iraqi oil when supplies get dangerously low. Why
burn up millions of gallons of fuel in a war to protect fuel supplies for control
of Iraqi oil? For what? In order to pay for the war costs?
What about G.W. Bush and the Republican Party? While the “Patriot” theme
and “fighting terrorism” undoubtedly aided the Republicans in the 2002
elections as well as their legislative agenda, the risk of prolonged occupations
accompanied by deaths of military personnel argue against any long term
benefit to Bush and his party. Combine that with continued loss of credibility
over the falsehoods used to justify unilateral attacks on Iraq, and any
Page 208 of 226

potential benefit seen earlier goes up in smoke.
The Bilderberg group and the financial interests of a "New World Order"?
That international finance has been served by 9/11 seems obvious with the
US being looted to serve a trans-national elite with no allegiance to any
nation. That they're organized enough to plan and execute a national disaster
like 9/11 is impossible. (http://www.nexusmagazine.com/Bilderbergers.html)
Israel? Without a sliver of doubt, Israel was/is the major benefactor of the
9/11 strike. How has Israel benefited? Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency,
believed that Iraq could have weapons of mass destruction and Israel wanted
Iraq neutralized before they had a chance to use them against Israel.
(http://pballes.com/updates9.htm)
Israeli hawks have, since the beginnings of their occupation of Palestine,

wanted to rid Palestine of the Palestinians. So long as Palestinians remained
in the occupied territories, an Iraqi missile strike that would kill more
Palestinians than Israelis was impossible. So long as Iraq possessed a capacity
to even develop WMD’s it would be impossible for Israel to get rid of the
Palestinians. Thus, getting control of Iraq facilitated Israel's ultimate desire to
eliminate the Palestinians.
How does 9/11 fit into the Iraq-Israel scenario? 9/11 provided the clarion call
for the so-called war against terrorism. Without 9/11, the U.S. would have
had no excuse for invading Afghanistan. The battle against Al-Qaeda and bin
Laden was the precursor to the invasion of Iraq; and the trumped up
connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda provided the excuse for invading
Iraq.
There's no doubt that Israel's Mossad, the Middle East intelligence experts as
far as America is concerned, provided the assessment of Iraq's WMD's to
America. The following Associated Press report (December 8, 2003) makes
clear, though perhaps unwittingly, that Israelis believed that Iraq had
WMD's.
ISRAELI intelligence overplayed the threat posed by Iraq and reinforced an

assumption by American and British counterparts that Saddam Hussein had
large caches of weapons of mass destruction, a retired Israeli general said
Page 209 of 226

today, after studying the run-up to the US-led invasion of Iraq.
The Israeli assessment may have been colored by politics, including a desire
to see Saddam Hussein toppled, said Shlomo Brom, once a senior Israeli
military intelligence officer and now a researcher with Israel's top strategic
think tank.
Brom stopped short of accusing intelligence officials of intentionally

misleading Britain and the United States.
...
Brom said in an interview today that "Israeli intelligence was a full partner
with the United States and Britain in developing a false picture of Saddam
Hussein's weapons of mass destruction capability".
He said Israeli intelligence "badly overestimated the Iraqi threat to Israel and
reinforced the American and British belief that the weapons existed".
Brom said the Israeli assessment might have been influenced by politics.
Brom's last comment was a gross understatement! And while he stopped

short of accusing Mossad of intentionally misleading Britain and the United
States, there's little doubt that's exactly what happened.
Considering again the answer to the question “who benefited from 9/11?” it
becomes perfectly clear that Israel, and Israel alone, had reason to plot and
execute the disaster that hit The World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the
four flights involved in that fateful September day in 2001. Israel, however,
couldn't possibly have executed such a plan alone without help from some
US authorities. Who might possibly provide the means for accomplishing
that genocidal goal?
The FBI and the CIA along with the general category of "the Bush
Administration" have been suggested in conjecture about possible
accomplices in a conspiracy. "The Bush Administration" is much too broad to
even be nominated for serious consideration, with the ever-present
possibility that somewhere among the ranks there might be a whistle blower
Page 210 of 226

with a conscience.
The FBI has certainly refused to cooperate with inquirers outside the
government; but that refusal to release information in ongoing investigations
cannot be logically interpreted as part of a cover-up. The same can be said for
the CIA. Additionally people in both agencies have revealed that they had
advanced knowledge of the potential hijackings.
Apart from other considerations, the CIA, having shared intelligence with
Mossad and having been burnt on a number of those occasions with false
intelligence, would have no love lost for the deceivers among their Israeli
counterparts. According to Gordon Thomas, “both the FBI and CIA regard
Mossad as a clear and present danger to U.S. national security.”
(http://www.antiwar.com/orig/thomas2.html)
Who's left as cooperative partners in the 9/11 executions that would form the
basis for the American invasions against all objections from most of the rest
of the world? The process of elimination leaves only the Department of
Defense (DoD). Its leaders are secretive enough to keep its plans under
wraps. To violate the top-secret code of silence, even by someone who later
felt moved by conscience to disclose the truth, would be cause for court
martial and a death sentence for treason, if not to an assassination made to
look like a suicide.
Unlike the CIA, which has "never killed Americans" in its covert activities,
the DoD has been responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans, both
in the military and among civilians considered as collateral damage. The
DoD has no qualms about killing Americans when it serves their purpose.
For 60 years the DoD managed to cover up their prior knowledge of the
planned Pearl Harbor attack by the Japanese that killed 4575 US Navy
personnel. The DoD also stopped US fighter jets from scrambling to end the
Israeli massacre of US Navy personnel on the USS Liberty.
(http://www.ussliberty.org/)
The DoD is the only body that could have kept the North American
Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) from performing its duty to
scramble fighter jets to intercept the hijacked planes on 9/11. The DoD was in
Page 211 of 226

the position to stop the hijacked jets from performing their mission. They
didn’t (http://www.publicaction.com/9/11/noradsend2.html), and they’ve
never answered why they didn’t.
Similarly, just as they were in a position to stop the attack on Pearl Harbor,
they did not. There was no excuse for that failure other than using the attack
to justify U.S. entry into WWII. That the DoD did not intercept the hijacked
aircraft on 9/11 is evidence that they wanted the end result to happen and
participated in the attack.
Leading civilians in the DoD figure among US leaders serving Israel. Paul
Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith have been more devoted to
Israeli interests than they have to those of America. At best, they have acted
as "dual loyalists."
Some background on these dual loyalists of the DoD:
Paul Wolfowitz, United States Secretary of Defense: "The neoconservative

members of President Bush's cabinet led by Wolfowitz advocated pre-
emptive strikes on terror cells in Afghanistan."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz)
"Wolfowitz, a 'hawkish' conservative military analyst under Ronald Reagan,

had in the 1990s, during the Clinton presidency formulated a new foreign
policy with regard to Iraq and other 'potential aggressor states', dismissing
‘containment’ in favor of ‘pre-emption’; strike first to eliminate threats.” Such
a strike could not be made without an attack like Pearl Harbor or like 9/11.
(http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Paul_Wolfowitz)
Richard Perle, previously chairman, now member of the Defense Policy

Board for the DoD: together with Douglas Feith and Richard Wurmser, Perle
authored a paper “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,”
in 1996 which declared that “removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq'
was an “important Israeli strategic objective...”
(http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Richard_N._Perle That
removal could not be accomplished without a 'casus belli' (an event used to
justify war).
Page 212 of 226

Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Policy at the U.S. Department of Defense:
"A prolific writer, Feith has left a long paper trail of anti-Arab tracts and
diatribes against those who challenge or seek to compromise Israel’s strength
and as he defines it, ‘moral superiority’ over the Arabs."
(http://middleeastinfo.org/article701.html) Feith would participate in any plot
to advance Israel's interests at the expense of the Arabs.
Along with the DoD triumvirate, add the two white house controllers. First,
David Wurmser, whose Israeli wife and close friend Perle make him the
perfect conduit to VP Richard Cheney. "...it was precisely because of the
strategic importance of the Levant that Wurmser advocated overthrowing
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in favor of an Iraqi National Congress....
'Whoever inherits Iraq dominates the entire Levant strategically,' he wrote in
one 1996 paper for the Jerusalem-based Institute for Advanced Strategic and
Political Studies." (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?
title=David_Wurmser). Iraq could not be 'inherited' without 9/11 as an excuse
for a pre-emptive strike.
The second, Elliot Abrams, described in The Nation as "the nastiest policy
warrior as Washington has seen in decades" was convicted of lying to
Congress about the Iran Contra affair and he serves Israel in the National
Security Council. As Jim Lobe observed in Tom Paine "Israel's Likud Scores
Big With White House Appointment." Abrams would have no qualms about
sacrificing American lives for Israel's benefit.
All of these Likudite Bush aides are unequivocal supporters of Israel's

conservative Likud Party, now headed by the 'Butcher of Sabra & Shatilla'
Ariel Sharon; and the dual loyalists have past ties either to Likud or to Israeli
companies.
Having eliminated the impossible, what remains is not as improbable as it

might have looked at first. What remains are people in the DoD with a
motive. Combine that with the history of deception of both Mossad and the
DoD as well as their proven willingness to sacrifice American lives for their
causes.
Victor Ostrovski (By Way of Deception and The Other Side of Deception)
made it perfectly clear that Mossad often infiltrated any organization it
Page 213 of 226

wanted to watch and/or control. For them, infiltrating Al-Qaeda cells would
be a cinch; and getting a number of Arabs to hijack planes under any ruse
would be normal Mossad behavior. Ostrovski, former Mossad agent,
revealed how Mossad got America to bomb Libya and fight Iraq. There’s
plenty of evidence of Mossad agents posing as Arabs, thus supplying the
"means" for the attacks and blaming Al-Qaeda and the Arabs.
(http://www.fpp.co.uk/BoD/Mossad/FakePalestinians.html)
There's no reason to believe that the Arabs involved in the hijacking, who
were not the expert flyers with the skills required to accomplish the flying
feats of 9/11, had a clue about where they would end up in planes guided by
remote control. All the hijackers had to do was turn over the guidance to
ground control in the hands of the DoD. (http://www.9/11-
strike.com/remote_bb.htm)
Since the supposed Arab hijackers couldn't even fly small planes solo,
according to the testimony of their flight instructors, and since remote control
devices had proven effective, the process of elimination again points to the
only conclusion remaining: 9/11 was planned and executed by Mossad and
the DoD in order to justify military action in the Middle East for the major
benefactor, Israel.
Until now, the belief that Israel could have anything to do with planning or
executing the atrocities of 9/11 have been arbitrarily dismissed as ‘conspiracy
theory’. The Anti Defamation League (ADL) in America has labeled any such
beliefs as anti-Semitic. Conveniently, the ADL has chosen to ignore the fact
that Arabs are also Semites. Furthermore, presenting a well-reasoned case
against Israel—even when it or its agent’s activities are criminal—does not
constitute anti Semitism. Israel, through its admittedly deceptive intelligence
arm, Mossad, in tandem with a DoD run by "dual loyalists", had all that it
takes to establish a case in a court of law: the means, the motive and the
opportunity.
If the ADL or any other group wishes to protect its followers from the
dangers of spreading anti-Semitism, they need to closely examine the
activities of the war hawks in both Tel Aviv (or Jerusalem) and Washington.
Most importantly, they need to ask and seek an honest answer to the
question: who benefited from the catastrophe that killed thousands on
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September 11, 2001?
*****
*Paul Balles is a retired American university professor and freelance writer

who has lived in the Middle East for 34 years. For more information, see
http://www.writerfreelance.com and http://www.pballes.com.

{Ansar Wrote}
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How does 9/11 fit into the Iraq-Israel scenario? 9/11 provided the clarion call for the
so-called war against terrorism. Without 9/11, the U.S. would have had no excuse
for invading Afghanistan. The battle against Al-Qaeda and bin Laden was the
precursor to the invasion of Iraq; and the trumped up connection between Iraq and
Al-Qaeda provided the excuse for invading Iraq.
See Above!

Page 215 of 226

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: dezionizer, i_owe_zero, boston_liberty, wbales, askel5, alphaville81,

soleila, free_zundel_now, ericthered, tradcatholic, unknown_virus, asteve,
stockwiz, eir, themalcontent, americanwoman, max61
Quote:
Considering again the answer to the question “who benefited from 9/11?” it
becomes perfectly clear that Israel, and Israel alone, had reason to plot and
execute the disaster that hit The World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the
four flights involved in that fateful September day in 2001. Israel, however,
couldn't possibly have executed such a plan alone without help from some
US authorities. Who might possibly provide the means for accomplishing
that genocidal goal?
See Above!

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: amalgamy, graybeard, Fletch, RidinShotgun, rusalka,

WholeTruth123, nimblebunny, bluegrass, Wahyusamputra, LaDonna,
clayman, hoplophile, windrivershoshoni, laconas, Bolero, Heretic, hamzat,
Muslim, The_Skunk, BlackVeil
It is critical for anyone who is really after knowing the truth to consider two
of the most significant events involving Americans since the year 2000. How
Page 216 of 226

did we come about being involved with these events and also how did we go
about assessing blame and identifying the culprits. Looking carefully and
dispelling the hype pushed on us by an untrustworthy media would expose
significant facts. Let’s look at the two events briefly:
1. 9/11 Attacks: The following is from the Globe Intel website:
Quote:
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon authorized the leak of sensitive

documents which reveal America's spy agencies were warned about a
terrorist strike weeks before September 11… Mossad chiefs insist the Israeli
spy agency was tracking Osama Bin-Laden's terrorists in America before
September 11 and that that the information was passed on to the CIA on Five
separate occasions before the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. As late as
August 24, less than two weeks before the attacks, a Mossad warning,
confirmed by German intelligence, BND, said that "terrorists plan to hijack
commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of
American and Israeli culture."
The following is from the September 18, 2001 issue of the Jerusalem Post!
Quote:
…the Israeli officials specifically warned their counterparts in Washington

that "large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American
mainland were imminent." They offered no specific information about
targets, but they did link the plot to Afghanistan-based terrorist Osama bin
Laden, and they told the Americans there were "strong grounds" for
suspecting Iraqi involvement.
This was an accusation more than it was a warning. Mossad's pointing the
finger to Bin Laden in advance was an attempt to ensure that Bin Laden was
blamed for the attack, to pre-empt the finger-pointing. They wanted no other
possibilities to be considered. As a result a lock was placed on Bin Laden.
Page 217 of 226

Along with Bin Laden they skillfully also pointed to Iraq, an enemy that they
wanted to use the goyim to get rid of. They already had their spy network in
place in the U.S. and were armed with explosives and in all the right places
to carry out 9/11. They were so exact about when and where it was going to
take place that none of their people got killed in the WTC, some even
received Odigo warnings 2 hours before it happened and others were
strategically placed to film and celebrate the twin towers destruction. Such
fantastic knowledge and details is truly amazing for one who did not plan
and execute the act.
2. Iraq: Israel manipulated western intelligence agencies to attack Iraq. Here

is a story about this from the Hebrew Press where an Israeli general admits
how his government manipulated the American and British intelligence
agencies:
Quote:
How Israel Manipulated Western Intelligence Agencies

Richard H. Curtiss, Special to Arab News
WASHINGTON, 19 December 2003 — It’s no secret that much of the news

reported in Israel’s Hebrew-language media never reaches the mainstream
American press, for the simple reason that items unfavorable to Israel
generally are not translated. And, because very few Israelis break this self-
imposed censorship, items from the Hebrew press that do appear may be
much more newsworthy than their anemic English translations indicate.
It was a bit stunning, therefore, to read an article in Strategic Assessment, the

quarterly bulletin issued by the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv
University. The report, titled “The War in Iraq: An Intelligence Failure?” was
written by Shlomo Brom, a brigadier general in the Israeli Army reserves,
and said what no one seems to have dared publish since President George W.
Bush decided to wage war on Iraq. Shockingly, it told the full truth about the
American and British intelligence “sources” making the case for war.
In fact, according to Brom, these sources were utterly compromised by Israeli

intelligence, which made the case for starting the war and kept it going as
long as necessary. The retired general described Israel as a “full partner” in
US and British intelligence failures that exaggerated Iraq’s nuclear, chemical
Page 218 of 226

and biological weapons programs in the lead up to the US-led invasion…
In both these examples Israel led American actions on who to blame and who
to attack. Can we say it is coincidence that the only nation in the world that is
leading us to blindly follow their suggestions in matters of critical
importance to the U.S. is Israel? How is it that this small nation has so much
power and pull over the mighty U.S.?
This should be of great concern to Americans. We are being led to kill and be
killed not as a result of American interests but as a result of being
manipulated by a foreign country for their gain. We have been told who did
9/11, the worst domestic attack on U.S. soil, and also blocked from doing any
reasonable investigation to find the true culprits from the available evidence.
We have been told that there is proof but after more than 2 years none have
been shown to the American public. It is as if Americans don’t know
anything about frame-ups even though Israel has been guilty of framing
Arabs on numerous occasions for actions they commit. Even with Israelis
also admitting that they manipulated Americans and Brits to attack Iraq with
false intelligence, the average American still remains blind. We are indeed in
a very dark period of American history. This is a very sorry state of affairs for
us. What is worse is the death and misery our nation has unleashed on
millions of innocent Muslims as a result of being manipulated by Israel. Is it
any wonder that Jews think so little about the intelligence of gentiles?

{Ansar Wrote}
Page 219 of 226

Flag to: graybeard, Fletch, RidinShotgun, WholeTruth123, bluegrass,
Wahyusamputra, LaDonna, clayman, rusalka, cyte, hoplophile, Judson,
windrivershoshoni, laconas, Bolero, Heretic, hamzat, Muslim, jonas,
BlackVeil
The following post shows how far Israel will go to frame Arabs for their
crimes. This time they were caught creating a phony Al-Qaeda ring in
Palestine. The proof was shown to the U.S. The big question is what is our
government going to do about it?
http://www.mediabypass.com/archives/february-03.htm
Mossad Exposed in Phony "Palestinian al Qaeda" Caper
by Michele Steinberg and Hussein Askary
The United States government has been provided with concrete evidence
that the Israeli Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services have been
involved in a 13-month effort to "recruit" an Israeli-run, phony "al Qaeda
cell" among Palestinians, so that Israel could achieve a frontline position in
the U.S. war against terrorism and get a green light for a worldwide
"revenge without borders" policy. The question: Does the United States
have the moral fiber to investigate?
Evidence of the Israeli dirty tricks burst onto the public scene on December 6,
when Col. Rashid Abu Shbak, head of the Palestinian Preventive Security
Services in the Gaza Strip, held a press conference revealing the details of the
alleged plot, as his agency had put the pieces together.
The revelations undermine the "big lie" that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has
used to justify new brutal attacks on Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip
and other occupied areas. Sharon claimed on December 4 that Israeli
intelligence had "hard evidence" of al Qaeda operations in the Gaza Strip.
Now, the top Palestinian leadership has shown the United States and other
nations how Israeli intelligence entities were creating that al Qaeda link!
American leader Lyndon LaRouche, a Democratic Presidential pre-candidate

in 2004, commented that these revelations, if confirmed, could be "of strategic
Page 220 of 226

importance" in stopping the American, British and Israeli war hawks
pushing for a Middle East war, beginning with an invasion of Iraq. A war
would justify the Sharon government's plan to annihilate the very idea of a
Palestinian state.
LaRouche warned that if institutions of the American Presidency and the

international community successfully block an American pre-emptive war on
Iraq, the biggest danger would be that a "mega-terror" attack, blamed on
Palestinians, or an "Iraqi-linked" al Qaeda, would be staged by Israel's ruling
Jabotinskyite fanatics, to put the war back on the agenda.
News about the Mossad-run attempt to create an al Qaeda cell came when
well-informed intelligence sources based in Washington had already told the
Executive Intelligence Review (EIR) that there are many doubts about the
Mossad's hasty declaration that "al Qaeda" had been responsible for the
November 28 attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, where three Israelis were
killed, and the failed rocket attack on an Israeli chartered jet that was
departing from Mombasa airport.
There was no identification of the bombers within the first five days of the
incident, the sources pointed out, yet Sharon's government ministers went on
an immediate propaganda rampage announcing worldwide revenge.
Authorities in Kenya also denied the al Qaeda link. But the usefulness of
blaming al Qaeda, for the Israeli right, was palpable, when Foreign Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu called the Kenya attacks "a golden opportunity" to
prove to the United States that Bush's war on terrorism, and Israel's war with
the Palestinians is the same thing. Netanyahu's faction has violently rejected
the Palestinian Authority's revelations, and so far, the American and
European press have followed suit, despite the dramatic nature of these
charges, and the documents that the Palestinians have provided to the
international press.
Chronology of the Revelations
On December 7, the British news service, Reuters, the Israeli daily Ha'aretz,
and Qatar-based Al-Jazeera TV network, all reported that the Palestinian
Authority had accused the Mossad of creating a phony al Qaeda cell in the
Gaza Strip. Ha'aretz reported, "the head of Palestinian Preventive Security" in
Page 221 of 226

the Gaza Strip, Col. Rashid Abu Shbak, said on December 6, "that his forces
had identified a number of Palestinian collaborators who had been ordered
by Israeli security agencies to 'work in the Gaza Strip under the name of al
Qaeda.' He said the investigation was ongoing and evidence would be
presented soon." Al-Jazeera TV added that the Palestinian authorities had
arrested a group of Palestinian "collaborators with Israeli occupation" in
Gaza, involved in the operation.
Reuters' reporter Diala Saadeh, under the headline, "Palestinians: Israel

Faked Gaza al-Qaeda Presence," quoted a number of Palestinian Authority
(P.A.) senior officials, including President Yasser Arafat, who told reporters
at his West Bank Ramallah headquarters, that Sharon's claims of al Qaeda
operations in Palestinian territories "is a big, big, big lie to cover [Sharon's]
attacks and his crimes against our people everywhere." P.A. Information
Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo detailed the case: "There are certain elements
who were instructed by the Mossad to form a cell under the name of al
Qaeda in the Gaza Strip in order to justify the assault and the military
campaigns of the Israeli occupation army against Gaza."
Palestinian officials promised to provide detailed evidence, and did so on

December 8, in a press conference addressed by Colonel Shbak, and by
Palestinian Minister for Planning and International Cooperation Nabil
Shaath. Shbak told the international representatives that, "Over the past nine
months, we've been investigating eight cases in which Israeli intelligence
posing as al Qaeda operatives recruited Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."
Colonel Shbak said that three men were under arrest, and 11 had been
released.
He explained that those released had voluntarily provided information going

back to May 2002, about the contacts that had been made asking them to
operate as an "al Qaeda" group. The alleged al Qaeda recruiters were traced
to Israeli intelligence, said Colonel Shbak. He detailed incidents, some of
which were described in official documents, of cell phone calls and e-mails,
where Palestinians were asked to "join al Qaeda." Shbak said, "We
investigated the origin of those calls, which used [wireless phone] roaming,
and messages, and found out they all came from Israel," reported the
publication Islam Online. He said that the potential "recruits," had been given
money and weapons, "although most of these weapons did not even work."
Page 222 of 226

He also noted that the money for these targeted Palestinians "was transferred
from bank accounts in Jerusalem or Israel."
Minister Shaath announced at the press conference that the P.A. had "handed
ambassadors and consuls of the Arab and foreign countries, documents
revealing the involvement of the Israeli intelligence in recruiting citizens
from Gaza Strip in a fake organization carrying the name of Qaeda." He said
the ploy was intended "to create a new excuse to escalate the aggression on
Gaza Strip."

{Ansar Wrote}

Mossad Exposed in Phony "Palestinian al Qaeda" Caper
by Michele Steinberg and Hussein Askary
The United States government has been provided with concrete evidence
that the Israeli Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services have been
involved in a 13-month effort to "recruit" an Israeli-run, phony "al Qaeda cell"
among Palestinians, so that Israel could achieve a frontline position in the
U.S. war against terrorism and get a green light for a worldwide "revenge
without borders" policy. The question: Does the United States have the moral
fiber to investigate?
Page 223 of 226

See Above!

{Ansar Wrote}
Flag to: artbishop, graybeard, Fletch, RidinShotgun, WholeTruth123,

bluegrass, Wahyusamputra, LaDonna, clayman, kudzu, hoplophile,
The_Janissary, Judson, windrivershoshoni, laconas, cyte, hamzat, Muslim,
The_Skunk, BlackVeil
I want to add the following post by artbishop to this thread. He makes some
excellent points regarding evidence from videos at the airport pointing to the
Arab hijackers. These are other things that also have to be considered
regarding 9/11. The only thing I like to add is that the evidence is
overwhelming that it was Israelis, along with corrupt elements in the US
government, who masterminded 9/11. This has been my whole case on this
thread. Also I believe that the 5 celebrating Mossad agents caught
videotaping the event, were also involved with planting explosives in the
WTC buildings.
Quote:
We are SICK and TIRED of this Bush knew and let it happen kaka! SICK of
everyone saying bush knew bush knew bush knew bullshit! We have to
STOP this CHARADE and spit it out already!
Page 224 of 226

BUSH DID IT!
Harvey Lee Osama Bin Laden was clueless in Afghanistan.
BUSH and his brother Captain MARVEL and the shadow cabal/gov
MASTERMINDED 9/11.
We shouldn’t be electing him president, we should be trying him in court,

and he should stand trial and be sent to jail not the white house.
From day one we should have focused on the investigation instead of

blindly seeking revenge from who bush and tony blurr told us did it.
THEY did it. There were no "19 hijackers". A REAL investigation by the
people and the families of the 9/11 victims would prove beyond a doubt
that the Bush gang the real thugs masterminded 9/11.
The mere fact that they shipped the debris if the WTC to the scrap yards in
Pakistan speaks volumes of cover-up. They didn’t want us to find
explosives in the debris that no 19 hijackers could have placed that only
MARVIN and his security firm that handled the WTC could have placed.
The nagging fact that the THREE AIRPORTS where the alleged hijackers
boarded the planes were run by an Israeli security firm...and they DO NOT
have any security cameras installed in the airports and cannot produce any
security camera video footage of the 19 NINETEEN "hijackers" is an
INSULT to our intelligence. That is IMPOSSIBLE. The first thing one
would hook up when handling the SECURITY of an airport is video
cameras. That is SOP....EVEN 711's have them!
So WHERE are the videos of the 19 hijackers?
Be sure that there were videos of all the passengers that day in all those
airports.
They are HIDING the videos.
WHY ARE THEY HIDING THE VIDEOS?
Page 225 of 226

Because NW...there were NO 19 Arab hijackers that’s why.
They would have beaten us to death with them on FOX and CNN if they had
footage of NINETEEN HIJACKERS.
They didn’t and the fact that they don’t say that there were NO hijackers.
The 19 hijackers, in an honest and fair trial..will be proven to be the BIGGEST

BUSHURBAN MYTH that we bought hook line and stinker.

Page 226 of 226

Did The Mossad Commit The Terrorist Acts Against The US On 9/11? (A Debate)

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Did The Mossad Commit The Terrorist Acts Against The US On 9/11? (A Debate)

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Did the Mossad commit the terrorist acts against the US on 9/11?

Flag to: ansar

Lay out your evidence.

The use of media as a way of swaying public opinion in defiance of truth is

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

Thoughtcriminal I am going to make a list of events associating the Israelis

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

What about the planes?

Who flew the planes?

Who did they work for?

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

I'm asking you to present your case in its totality.

Please present your entire case as if we were in a court of law.

Got it???? I need to establish a ground base between us of what we both

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

OK...for the sake of continuing, that's my entire case answer it.

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

Who hijacked the planes?

TC no fair! I asked you questions first. Please answer.

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

Without detailing what actually occurred, your argument is incomplete.

What are you afraid of?

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

I'm afraid that you'll never post your entire argument.

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

You haven't addressed all the events of the day.

Who hijacked the planes?

Who did they work for?

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

Who hijacked the planes?

Who were the men?

Who did they work for?

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

TC I am building much of my case using what I presented above as a

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

You've failed to address the actual incidents of the day.

What you want of me is to follow your path of argument bit by bit.

It doesn't work that way. It's a debate.

Then you counter, and then I counter.

OK...for the sake of continuing, that's my entire case answer it.

How's that? Am I clear now? I heartily await your response.

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

Who hijacked the planes?

Who did they work for?

What exactly happened that day?

Can you give us a timeline on what happened that day?

1.In 1956, as reported by the Times Of London, during one of Israel's

Today Naeim has changed he no longer supports the Zionists. In an essay

Even Netanyahu said the following:

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

Edited by ansar on 03/13/03 10:49 PM.

Okay, you're setting the scene by explaining a pattern of deception by Israel

Good, you're building an argument.

Now, proceed to the events of that day.

Ha ha ha TC you are playing judge by evaluating my arguments and telling

I conclude TC and I repeat again:

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

"Strive as in a race to achieve the

You haven't even discussed the actual events of that day.

You don't have an argument to refute!