Theism and Atheism – Governing

Dynamics and Perceptions

A Compilation of Discussion

For Private Use Only – Strictly Confidential

Preface
Dear Member,

The following paper is a compilation of the minutes of the discussion. I have made an
attempt to provide the same in an essay format with headings for coherence. This
paper is strictly meant for Private Use of the members only. This paper is not an
academic or research paper and hence you are strictly advised not to quote anything
outside. The objective of the paper is to only provide a summary of what has been
discussed. This means that the topic is still open for discussion, debate and
deliberation in the online forum/ blog.

Theism and Atheism are two sensitive topics in the society today. While each
individual decides his stance, predominantly we brand the other side with stereotypes
as being “absurd”, “dumb” etc without understanding the perspectives. The Society
for Intellectual Thinking (hereinafter referred to as „SIT‟) sat down to discuss the
varying perceptions and dynamics in these two aspects. The discussion covered the
following:

 Theism– An understanding, perceptions involved

 Atheism - An understanding, perceptions involved
 The Grey Area – A life of Contradictions
 The Up Bringing- Does it decide your stance?
 Proof – The varying perceptions

Date: 21/12/ 08
Venue: Gandhi Statue, Marina Beach, Chennai

Participants
1. Srinath Varadarajan – Moderator and Philosophic
2. Prashanth Krishnaswami - Agnostic
3. Harish Sampath Kumar - Purist
4. Akshay Madhavan – Core Atheist
5. Srinath Veeraraghavan - Purist
6. Dr. Mohan Rao - Spiritual
7. Shyleshwari Rao - Spiritual
8. Sairam Gopalan - Religious
9. Rajaraman Subramaniam – Theist
10. Aparajith Jayaraman - Theist
11. Sundar Velan – Core Atheist
12. Srinath Chakravarthi - Agnostic

Regards,
Srinath Varadarajan
Member, SIT

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Theism – An Understanding
Theism and the idea of God arise out of man‟s innate nature to question things beyond
his understanding and perception. These could include inability to reason out fate,
phenomena in nature, randomness and chaotic nature of the functioning of life and
hedging the prevailing uncertainty. This creates and also reinstates the theists that
there is something that is eternal, constant, a superior phenomenon beyond human
senses, etc

In a complete state of abstractness and randomness, the entire world is transient and
ever changing. To bring in realism or tangibility or hedge against such a phenomenon,
we have developed systems, logical thought process, lifestyles and the like. A
complete ideal and in fact natural phenomenon is where man has none of these and is
in a total chaotic state. That is the reason why theists believe in a new born baby and a
child as manifestations of the Godhood, meaning that it is pure and natural.

The idea of theism besides being “worship of God”, “rituals”, and the possible
“superstitions” , also lays emphasis on the “attainment of godhood” which is a state
where one does not distinguish anything from anything, understanding the constancy
in the transient, does not go by systems, etc, in short, becomes what a new born baby
is! Some theists also believe in the worship of nature per se, meaning rain, sun, wind
etc, which have a direct bearing to our living.

Another manifestation or rather a separate body all together is Spirituality which

believes in the existence of a soul and the realization of the same as the task of
mankind. Predominantly, all the prevailing and famous religions of today believe in
this concept. This concept believes in an eternal cosmic energy (by whatever name
you call) that is identifiable in all creations and universe and creation is a
manifestation of that cosmic energy, which is termed as the “soul” (In Hinduism,
Atman) and the whole energy as such is called the “Universal soul” (In Hinduism,
Brahman). The idea of life is to wake up the soul and identify it with the universal
soul, the state being called Self Realization. Attaining that state would involve a
concentration which is very powerful and a self introspection that is deep and to the
core in the literal sense of the term. Under spirituality, that concentration and
introspection should be beyond ones senses as they are believed to divert the focus or
move a person from identifying within him, the “reality”. Hence the lifestyle, attitude
and practices were suggested and later became “doctrines” to enable a person to
achieve that ideal or at least provide the means to achieve the same. Some suggest
meditation and constant introspection , the term called as “Jnana” and some use
indirect approach where the feeling of “I” is bowed down to something superior, the
approach being called “Bhakthi” or a lifestyle called “Karma” that intrinsically
enables one to achieve that goal.

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Atheism – An Understanding
Atheism unlike theism, does not believe in the existence of God. While the atheists
believe in the chaotic nature, randomness and uncertainty, they tend to relate the same
with the nature of the world and not attribute the same to a superior force, say God.
According to atheists, the idea of God is only a hypothesis that has arisen due to
man‟s innate nature to question things but something that is not proven. The atheists
believe that a baby is a born atheist and the idea of theism and God unless instilled in
the mind, the baby does not relate anything to God. The idea of God is only to support
himself, give him a self confidence, to vent out emotions, an artificial companion, etc.
While the theists believe that life and death and the power to reason is a boon for man
to think beyond and reach the ideal, the atheists look at it as a biological and
evolutionary phenomenon and man as a “social animal”.

The idea of God being only an hypothesis, though the atheists agree that there “could
be a possibility”, they refuse to accept or digest the same as the same has not proven
and the atheists attach their belief on things that are proven by science, as the same is
“more likely” and “dependable”. Though proofs are not always rite and can be
negated over time, the atheists alter their beliefs on the basis of proofs as they occur.

Another similar ideology is being agnostic. An agnostic person is one who holds that
the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are
unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. The
difference between atheism and being agnostic, is that the atheist negates the
existence of God while the agnostic person holds the view that though may be
possible, it would not be possible to know, however, the lifestyle of the atheist and
agnostic person are more or less similar. The various happenings are related to luck,
chance and probability.

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The Grey Area – Life of Contradictions
This was one view that came up the discussions.

While we find that each individual has his own stance on the same, many a times we
find that people live in contradictions meaning that though are theists, they are
atheists for certain situations and vice versa. For example, under complete theism, the
feeling of I or the ego is negated and unselfishness is agreed to be God. However,
people in some situations in the guise of saying it is “practical” many a times get to go
against the theist ideology and are atheists for that particular situation. In the same
sense, at the time of a crisis, we could find that those who do not believe in God also
have a hope that a miracle could take place! Hence, the common man today is more or
less in the “grey” and not really extreme theist or extreme atheist.

Up Bringing – Does it decide your

stance?
There was a contention that theism arises only by up bringing, else the child grows to
be an atheist. While this could be true, after a point of time, as one grows, one could
find that at a phase of life, self thinking and quest really moves a person to sustain the
belief or faith or transition into another philosophy. This is so true with people who
convert to other religions, to atheism, from atheism to theism, etc. (This is however
for people who transition purely out of choice and not persuasion or coercion).

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Proof – The Varying Perceptions
The entire discussion on Atheism Vs Theism can be summarized as Proof Vs Belief.
Hence it would be essential to understand the perceptions with reference to the term
“proof”. It would be difficult to say exactly what is proof because on the discussion
one could sense that the idea of proof for each person was different from what was
commonly accepted as a “Proof”. The following are some suggestions made by the
members.

1. A physical existence
2. A precedent
3. A credible source
4. Adherence to set of commonly accepted ways of logical thinking
5. Science as such is proof
6. Anything written is proof
7. Proof of emotions can only be felt
8. Proof has to be clinical and should be experimented rather than being emotive
9. Proof is consistency

The idea of proof for the participants were so different and it only brings to a doubt if
there is a common accepted proof at all, or is it just proof for the outside while each
individual chooses his own way of defining proof for himself!

This is again highly debatable!

What did we conclude?

We could not really conclude on whether theism or atheism is right. However, we
realized that it was proof vs belief and there are so many perspectives involved
and it is essential to respect both the sides rather than living with unreasonable
prejudice. It was a good learning to all and the discussion is still open!

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