Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen Exposed

Bismillahir Rahman nir Raheem

17. Al-Isra'.81 "Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its
nature) bound to perish."

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Table of Contents Page

Introduction to this Heretical sect. 3

The Hidden Kufr. 4

The Basis of their argument. 6

Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's Explanation to the Hadith. 7

Refutation. 8

Jamaat-ul-muslimeen and their Bayah. 9

Back breakers for Jamaat ul Muslimeen. 11

How to counter Jamaat ul Muslimeen. 12

Online Debate with Jamaat-ul-muslimeen. 16

Even a child can disprove their concept. 24

Latest Findings about the Jamaat ul Muslimeen - Masoodiyyah 26

Kufr Quotes - Jamaat ul muslimeen – Masoodiyyah 30

Shaikh Albaani on the word "Muslim" 32

The Open Challenge for an Online Debate once more. 34

Our second challenge to Jamaat ul muslimeen – Masoodiyyah. 35

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 Introduction to this Heretical sect.

Although this Jamaat is an old one, many of us do not know about it, it
is however very important to warn people about it . Jamaat-ul-muslimeen was
formed in Pakistan by a person named "Syed Masood Ahmed". He was from the
"jamiat-e-ahl-e-hadith". He justified the forming of a new jamaat by the hadith of
"Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman". Many people think that this is just another average
Jamaat but it is not so. Unlike others this Jamaat considers every one else
besides them as Kaafirs. They consider themselves as the only ones destined to
salvation. This Jamaat can be proved wrong through many ways. Their beliefs
lead to the point that Islam was not understood properly untill the arrival of
Masood Ahmed in other words the Deen was not complete... because they are
the first ones in history to say that "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is a name... read on to
know more...

They have an Ameer who they consider as a Khalifah.

According to them, the one who does not give Bayah to their Ameer will die a
death of Jahiliyyah. They do not pray behind any person who does not belong to
their Jamaat, as they consider him as a Kaafir ( read the article- The hidden
KUFR).

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 The Hidden Kufr.

There are allegations against Jamaat-ul-muslimeen one of them

being their declaration of every one else besides them as "Kaafirs". This jamaat
claims, on the face of it, that it does not call anyone else a "Kaafir". This is a true
allegation against them, although they deny it. The following are proofs against
them:

If you read the article posted on their website (aljamaat.org) titled "The Distinctive
Features of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" point no. 10 says," To leave Jamaat-ul-
muslimeen is to invite a death of ignorance (the era before Islam)". And what is a
person who lives in the era before Islam? "Kaafir" of course!! Because he has not
accepted Islam.

Further in point no. 11 they openly declare," To leave Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is to

leave Islam." This means that if a person is a member of their jamaat , he is in
Islam. And if he is not then he has not yet entered the fold of Islam. In other
words he is a non-Muslim i.e. a "Kaafir". Never in history did the Sahabah
declare anyone else as "Kaafir" just because they have not given the Bayah
(oath of allegiance). We will also discuss about this (Bayah) later.

If you read their Urdu booklet "Faridha-e-ita'at-e-ameer" (The obligation of

obedience to an Ameer), the same points have been mentioned on its back side
in Urdu with an extra point which says" Jamaat-ul-muslimeen kay paas jo kuch
hai uska inkaar KUFR hai" which means that rejecting whatsoever they have is
"KUFR". If you reject whatever they have, good or bad, it's KUFR.

Finally if you read their book "Invitation to Haq" posted on their website
(www.aljamaat.org), which is in English, on page no.4, referring to the sects of
Islam, it reads:

"When people of such sects are invited towards the base of Islam (Quran and
Sunnah) they become redundant. They practically reject the divine commands in
the presence of teachings of their religious scholars and heroes. This is exactly
how the Jews and the Christians were acting and now are acting. The question is
whether such a person remains a Muslim or not? For sure the reply will be in
negative."

Here you can clearly observe that they have declared that all sects are not
muslims or in other words kaafirs.

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This Jamaat is tricky and plays with words. Instead of saying, "He is a Kaafir",
they will say, "He is not a muslim". This is like so..........instead of saying, "you are
dumb or foolish" they say, "You are not intelligent". There is no difference, only a
clever usage of words.

Alhamdulillah, these points are enough to prove that they consider everybody
else besides them as "KAAFIRS".

At this point we all must recall the saying of our Prophet (PBUH), "Whoever calls
his brother as "O Kaafir" then it applies to one of them" Muwatta of Imam Maalik
(56.1)

Hence we must refrain our tongues from such utterances of Jahiliyyah

(ignorance). May Allah guide us.

In the end Allah knows best !!

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 The Basis of their argument .

The following is a hadith which is found in Sahih Al-Bukhari as well as Sahih Al-
Muslim and also in a few other books of Ahadith. It was narrated by Hudhaifah
Bin Al-Yaman. Read the Hadith carefully:

The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about
evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in
ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will
there be any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good
after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tainted with Dakhan (i.e. Little
evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people
who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see
their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there be any evil after that
good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the
doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by
them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They
will belong to us and speak our language." I asked, "What do you order me to do
if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the Main body of
Muslims (in Arabic - Jamaat-al-muslimeen) and their Chief." I asked, "If there is
neither a Main body (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep
away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a
tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."

This Hadith is the basis of the formation of their jamaat.

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Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's Explanation to the Hadith.

Note: This Article only explains their interpretation.

After reading out the Hadith to you they say that the things mentioned in the
hadith about the people not practicing the traditions of the Prophet (PBUH) and
the people inviting to the doors of hell refer to our period i.e. today. Secondly they
say that everybody else besides "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is a sect (firqa) destined
to go to hell according to the hadith. They say we must leave all the sects and
join the true one. Thirdly they say that according to this hadith the name of the
jamaat in Islam should be "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen". Which is why they say sects
are based upon the differences in names. Whosoever has a name other than
theirs, they become a sect that has gone astray. They then say that because we
have kept our Jamaat's name as so, all people must join them or be destined to
burn in hell. Fourthly they say that you must not call yourself anything other than
the name "Muslim". For e.g. if a person calls himself a "Hambali", even if he says
he is a Muslim, proclaims Shahadah, prays salah, fasts, performs Hajj and even
gives Zakat, he is out of Islam i.e. he is a Kaafir. They say that Allah says in the
Quran "...He has named you Muslimeen before and in this (Quran)..." Surah Hajj.
They say that hence only the name Muslim should be used. Hence whosoever is
not a part of the Jamaat-ul-muslimeen he is not a "Muslim".

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 Refutation.

First of all one point is enough to disprove them and that is the
explanation of "Hafiz Ibn Hajar", the person who wrote the "sharah"-commentary
Fath-ul-baaree (13\35) of Sahih al-Bukhari, which says what a muslim should do
before there is Ijma' upon a Khalifah i.e. before agreeing upon a Khalifah and the
unity and disunity talked about in the hadith is of a political nature i.e. it does not
relate to sects in differences of beliefs, actions or NAMES but political sects. This
will shatter their argument because they give explanations by their own desires
and do not follow the explanations of the Salaf-us-Saleh (Sahabah, Tabayeen &
Tabe Tabayeen) .Secondly nowhere in the Quran and Hadith is it ever mentioned
that "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is the name of the jamaat. Neither did the Salaf-us-
Saleh ever say such a thing nor can it be traced back to the Islamic history. This
is a clear innovative belief. "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" only means "a Group of
Muslims" or "Main body of Muslims", which is a term used for Khilafah. Whatever
they say can never be traced back to the Salaf-us-Saleh (Sahabah, Tabayeen &
Tabe Tabayeen). Thirdly the hadith in reference speaks about what to do in times
of disunity (political) and in the absence of the Main body of muslims (Khilafah). It
never says to form a new jamaat, which is what they did. This was never the
command of the Prophet (PBUH). He only said to stay away from all sects even if
you have to die, but not to form a new jamaat. Hence they, instead of following
the Hadith are opposing it. Fourthly the Prophet (PBUH) and the Salaf-us-Saleh
(Sahabah, Tabayeen & Tabe Tabayeen) never said that one should call himself a
muslim ONLY, this is also an innovative belief because there were a lot of names
that were used by them( Mo'mineen, ibaadallah etc). And the Jamaat was called
(Ahl-us-sunnah-wal-jama'ah, Ahl-us-sunnah, Ahl-ul-jama'ah, etc) . Finally the
hadith clearly says that the people inviting to the doors of hell will be among their
skin ( hum fi jildatina) and they will speak their language. Therefore it is quite
clear that they will be Arabs speaking Arabic. Hence the prophecy does not apply
to non-Arab sects, as they suggest. Hence this relates to the political scenario in
the Arab world.

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 Jamaat-ul-muslimeen and their Bayah.

The Jamaat-ul-muslimeen say that whosoever does not give

the Bayah to their Ameer he will die a death of ignorance. They use the following
hadith for their argument :

The Prophet (SAW) said, "One who withdraws his hand from obedience (to the
Ameer) will find no argument (in his defense) when he stands before Allah on the
Day of Judgment, and one who dies without having bound himself by an oath of
allegiance (to an Ameer) will die the death of one belonging to the days of
Jahiliyyah."

Sahih Muslim Hadith 4562 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Omar.

This hadith, of course, applies to the time when there is Khilafah.

But when there is no Khilafah then a normal muslim who cannot do anything will
not be put to blame. They use this hadith and say that after taking Bayah a
person becomes a Muslim. So if a person (a normal muslim) does not give
Bayah he is not a muslim and no member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is supposed
to pray behind him or attend his marriage or even reply to his greetings (Salaam).
These are their rules. They have declared their Ameer as Khalifah by giving
Bayah. No where does the hadith of Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman, or any other
Hadith for that matter, gives such a solution or teaches that every body else are
Kaafirs. The Hadith only says to keep away and not to form a new jamaat. At this
juncture it would be fit to mention a saying of Omar (RA) :

"Whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without

consulting the other Muslims, neither that person, nor the person to whom the
pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be
killed."

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.817 Narrated by Ibn Abbas.

Now here if they LIE that they consider all as muslims then their manhaj (way)
goes against the above saying, that is because they gave the pledge without
consulting the other muslims. Or they simply have no other alternative but to say
that all others are Kaafirs.

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Lastly the Hadith of Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman says to leave all and not to start a
new Jamaat by taking Bayah. The above mentioned saying of Omar (R.A), if
read in its context talks about what not to do at times when there is no Khalifah.
That is when the Ummah has not yet agreed upon one Khalifah. This is the
beauty of Islam which teaches us unity and not to have hundreds of Khalifas or
takers of Bayah. Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's methods lead to a lot of Factionalism.
You might like to know that there are two groups (in our knowledge, Allah knows
best how many more really exist) by the name of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen. They
both have Khalifas and they take Bayah and do not accept each other . This is
what we mean by factionalism. And from the Pakistan's Jamaat-ul-muslimeen
there has also emerged a new group called the "Jamaat-ul-haq". All these groups
are making a mockery of Islam and should be stopped.

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 Back breakers for Jamaat ul Muslimeen.

The following questions should be asked to any member of Jamaat-ul-

muslimeen. Alhamdulillah they are back breakers for them. They won't know the
depth of these questions when asked. But once they answer, the refutation
should be provided. We have asked a few people from this jamaat these
questions personally but none have answered. The only answers we received
were through e-mail and never one on one....

These questions should be asked in a straight forward manner to get precise

answers..

Q.1) What is a person who is not a member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen?

a) Muslim

b) Kaafir

Q.2) How does a person become a muslim?

Q.3) When did the Khilafah (started by the sahaabah) end?

Q.4) What did the people become after that (the end of that Khilafah)?

a) Muslims

b) Kaafirs

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 How to counter Jamaat ul Muslimeen.

These are the questions to be asked to any member of Jamaat ul Muslimeen and
how to refute their answers. Note: Read the article "The hidden kufr" carefully
and memorize the points mentioned therein to counter their answer for this
question.

The first question's answer:

"What is a person who is not a member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen?"

If they say that every body else are muslims then their Manhaj (methodology)
goes against the following saying of Umar (R.A):

"Whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without

consulting the other MUSLIMS, neither that person, nor the person to whom the
pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be
killed."

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.817 Narrated by Ibn Abbas.

This is so because Islam does not want Hundreds of Khalifas taking bayah. Islam
is for unity. And unless and until there is no agreement upon a Khalifah, then no
one is supposed to take bayah as a Khalifah.

If they say that every body else is a Kaafir then they are going against the saying
of the Prophet (SAW):

" Whoever calls his brother "O Kaafir" then one of them is a Kaafir"

Muwatta of Imam Maalik (56.1)

And we also have a beautiful historical example, where Ali (R.A) was asked
about the Khawarij, "Are they Kaafirs?" and Ali (R.A) replied, "NO, they are trying
to run away from kufr." When such a big personality as that of Ali (R.A) did not
declare them Kaafirs..........who are we? Even though the Khawarij rejected Ali's
(R.A) Khilafah, did not give bayah, declared many Sahabah as Kaafirs and
Renegades (Murtads) and started killing Muslims, Ali (R.A) did not call them
Kaafirs.

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The second question's answer:

"How does a person become a muslim?"

They will answer that "By joining Jamaat-ul-muslimeen".

How does a person join this jamaat?

They will answer, "By giving bayah".

First of all they will not be sure. but if they answer as above then this is another
innovative concept. This was never the way of the Prophet (SAW) and the
Sahabah . Ask them to provide solid evidence from the Quran and Hadith.

They might quote the following:

"One who dies without having bound himself by an oath of allegiance (bayah) will
die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance)."
Sahih Muslim Hadith 4562 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Omar.

The text is absolutely right but the context in which they use it is wrong. This
applies only when a Khalifah is present, not that we must start looking for one or
make one ourselves. This hadith does not speak of a person becoming a
MUSLIM or about how to become a muslim.

History of Islam has been a witness from the time of the Prophet (SAW) that a
person becomes a muslim by proclaiming Shahadah and he remains one by
fulfilling the rest of the four pillars of Islam.

The Jamaat-ul-muslimeen should fear Allah and stop these innovations, for the
Prophet (SAW) said:

"Whoever does something not approved by us will have it rejected." (Bukhari and
Muslim).

The Prophet and the Sahabah never said that a person becomes a muslim by
giving bayah. Hence their beliefs are not approved.

And if they say that a person becomes a muslim by reciting the "Kalimah" then
refer to the first question's answer.

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The third question's answer:

"When did the first Khilafah end?"

This question is only for information's sake.

They will most probably answer "After Omar bin Abdul Aziz, the 12th Khalifah"

This answer will help us in our next question.

The fourth question's answer:

"What did the people become after that (End of that Khilafah)?"

If they answer muslim then it means that they (the people) remained muslim
even after the end of Khilafah which means that khilafah is not a requirement to
be a muslim and this proves that there were still muslims present at the time
when Masood Ahmed formed his jamaat by taking bayah, which goes against the
following saying of Omar (RA):

"Whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without

consulting the other MUSLIMS, neither that person, nor the person to whom the
pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be
killed."

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.817 Narrated by Ibn Abbas.

If you corner them from this angle then they have no other alternative but to say
"Kaafir".

And here is the punch:

If they say that every one after the end of Khilafah of Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz
became a Kaafir or apostate or even a renegade (murtad) ..........then read the
following:

1. The Khilafah of Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz ended in around 98 Hjrah.

2. All the major muhadditheen (scholars of hadith) like Imam Bukhari & Imam
Muslim came after him.

3. Many narrators of ahadith came after him.

4. All the Imams (of fiqh) also came after him.

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Considering the above points, keeping Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's concept, the
above mentioned people (2,3&4) are all Kaafirs (May Allah forgive us for such
utterances)!!!!!

And a Kaafir's hadith cannot be accepted, hence their concept leads to kufr and it
finally leads to the rejection of Ahaadith and books like Sahih Bukhari and Sahih
Muslim, because in the chain of narrators you will find according to them many
non-muslims or apostates (May Allah forgive us for such utterances)!!!

Hence this Jamaat leads to madness and Kufr.

The above mentioned points are, Al-hamdulillah, enough for a person with right
intentions to leave this jamaat. Persons with Ikhlas (sincerity) will definitely leave
this jamaat. People with evil intentions will never leave it.

May Allah guide us all !!

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 Online Debate with Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.

The following were the answers received from them (e-mail) to the back breaking
questions:

"Here you go:

1. A person who is not in Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen is in Firqa's.

2.A person becomes a muslim by witnessing the oneness of ALLAH and the
prophethood of prophet Muhammad (Sallallh-u-Aliahi-wa-Sallam); and acting
upon Islam as well.

For that you have to stick to Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen as it is the command of

ALLAH and His prophet.

3.After the 12 khaleefa's , the brightest era of lslam ended as is in Saheeh

Bukhari.

4. Allah knows best what they became after that we are answereable for that
which we know not what they did."

Their email address: info@aljamaat.org

Notice the cleverness with which they have answered. The reply given to them
was as follows:

(Note: You have to be aggressive against them)

"Praise be to Allah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek
refuge with Allah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds.
Whomsoever Allah guides cannot be misled, and whomsoever He leaves astray
cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allah alone, with no
partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and
Messenger.

I received your answers to my four questions and here is my response:

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To the first answer:-

I think you do not understand simple English. My question was not about a
person being in a firqa or not? as you have cleverly answered or should I say
cleverly "avoided". The actual question was:

whether he is a MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?

MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?

NOW IS IT CLEAR? Please answer to the point (Choosing one) and dont try to
be clever!!

To the second answer:-

How does a person become a muslim?

you answered that, By testifying that there is no god but Allah ,that Muhammad
(S) is his last messenger, follow Islam and be with Jamaat ul muslimeen as it is
the command of Allah and his Messenger.

It seems that you have added another Pillar to the pillars of Islam which is an
innovation. Your Kufr is clear over here. Why do you have to specifically mention
about Jamaat ul muslimeen, why don't you also mention about growing a beard
as it is also the command of Allah and his Messenger, VERY CLEVER AND
SELECTIVE INDEED.

Because you are IGNORANT about matters of fiqh you do not know the
difference between FARDH (compulsory) and WAAJIB (obligatory).. Pity..

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What is your opinion about Shaikh Albanee And Shaikh bin Baaz who were not
of your jamaat ?

ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?

ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
I HAVE TO REPEAT IT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND
SIMPLE ENGLISH.

When the Prophet (S) was asked about "What is Islam?" he never said what you
said.. Hence it is clear from your answer that you consider only your jamaat
people or people who are a part of you as muslims and the rest as KAAFIRS for
which you are famous. Refute if you are on HAQ.

To the third answer:-

When did the Khilafah end ?

You said after 12 Khalifas. This is only a key to open the door to prove your kufr
through the fourth question which will be a back breaker..

To the fourth question:-

What did the people become after that?

You said you don't know and its not your business.
Well listen to this , according to your jamaat people, the last Khalifah was Umar
bin Abdul Aziz (or be it any other man for that matter), This Khilafah ended
before the era of the great muhadditheen

Eg: Imaam Bukhari and Imaam Muslim RAHIMA HUMULLAH..

Now if a person says that "i do not know whether these muhadditheen were
muslims or not" (as in effect you have) then he is "OUT OF ISLAM" because he
in turn has rejected all the Ahadith which are based upon their authority. And a
Non Muslim's hadith cannot be accepted .

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HENCE YOUR AQEEDAH LEADS TO KUFR AND HENCE YOUR ARGUMENT
IS BASELESS..

THE CORRECT AQEEDAH IS THAT THE PEOPLE REMAINED MUSLIMS

BECAUSE THEY HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB TO PRESERVE THE MESSAGE
OF ISLAM. LET ME ASK

YOUR IGNORANT JAMAAT THIS QUESTION,

" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY
THEY CAME AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"

" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY

THEY CAME

AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"

" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY
THEY CAME

AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"

" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY
THEY CAME

AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"

I HAVE TO REPEAT IT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND

SIMPLE ENGLISH.
PLEASE PONDER OVER YOUR HOPELESS SITUATION AND IF YOU FEEL
CORNERED AND CANT ANSWER THEN FEAR ALLAH AND SEEK HIS
FORGIVENESS FOR YOU HAVE INDEED "INNOVATED" IN ALLAH'S DEEN.

PLEASE REPLY CLEARLY AND TO THE POINT IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS."

After this reply form us, Jamaat-ul-muslimeen said:

"Dear Baatil Firaq Destroyer,

May be you think you are over cloud nine for giving these very updated replies.

I think you still have not told us who you are and which sect do you belong to and
whatever sect you belong to please prove it's existence from the days of the
prophet ( Sallallh-u-Alaihi-wa-Sallam ) and his companions.

We will be extremely grateful.

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If khilaafah ended it does not mean that there was no Muslim as all the
Muhadditeen were Muslimeen and not any thing else, they did not belong to any
sect as they can't practice against Islam and Islam shuns sectarianism in all its
evil forms.

Awaiting your religious identification.

A MUSLIM."

Then we replied:

"Praise be to Allaah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek
refuge with Allaah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds.
Whomsoever Allaah guides cannot be misled and whomsoever He leaves astray
cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allaah alone, with no
partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and
Messenger.

I have received your answers and here is my response:

It is human nature that when you are cornered and trapped by questions you
cannot answer, you either counter question or you change the topic which is
being discussed. Let us not go anywhere but to the point.

Let us now compare your answers. In your first reply you said that you do not
know what the people became after the end of the Khilafah. And in your second
reply you were knocked to your senses and then you said that the Muhadditheen
were Muslims who were of course among the people after the Khilafah. Now
here are some points derived from our discussion:

1) According to you the Muhadditheen were not the part of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen

(Khilafah).
2) As they were Muslims, this proves that Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's existence is not
necessary for being a Muslim.

Now the questions that arise are:

What about people who are not muhadditheen?

Were they Muslims too?

i.e. if you say that only the muhadditheen were muslims and not anyone else

then what about the narrators of ahaadith?

In the chain of narrators of Ahaadith there are many non-muhadditheen.

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So the question is, "Were these people also Muslims or not?"

"Were these people also Muslims or not?"

"Were these people also Muslims or not?"

"Were these people also Muslims or not?"

Because according to the principles of the science of hadith only a Muslim

narrator can be accepted.

The principles do not even accept a hadith from a person who practices Bid'ah
leave alone non-muslim.

Hence we have to accept them as good Muslims who were very close to the
Sunnah.

Now here are your possible replies and their refutation:

If you say "we dont know", as you have in effect said in your first reply, then you
are OUT OF ISLAM because you have then rejected all the ahaadith.
If you say "no they were not muslims", then your Kufr is undoubted as you again
have rejected

Ahaadith.
If you say "yes they were muslims", then that without doubt means that people
can be muslims without Khilafah. And then it means that there were MUSLIMS
PRESENT AT ALL TIMES.

You also said that the muhadditheen did not belong to any sect, now I shall
prove, Insa'allah, that the one which will go to heaven is also referred to as a sect
in ahaadith.

There is a misconception among you people that the people who will go to
heaven are not a sect.

21
We don't know from where you got this innovative concept. If you have a some
brains, can understand clear langauge and don't have any pre-conceived notions
then observe the following hadith:

Rasool allah (peace be upon him) said:" There will befall my Ummah exactly (all
those) evils which befell the people of Isra'il, so much so that if there was one
amongst them who openly committed fornication with his mother there will be
among my Ummah one who will do that, and if the people of Isra'il were
fragmented into seventy-two sects my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-
three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. They (the
Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that?Whereupon he said: It is
one to which I and my companions belong.

(Tirmidhi. 171)

Ummah of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings of Allaah be upon him)

Total sect/s = 73
Sect/s that will go to hell = 72
Sect that will go to heaven = 1
Where is it ever mentioned that it is not a sect?
Our answer is nowhere. WHAT IS YOURS?

If the above calculation is wrong, prove it!

Hence your aqeedah is baseless and you have no proof. I pity you..

Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?

Our answer is yes they did. The presence of Khilaafah is not neccessary for
being in it. That group is only based on the "Aqeedah" of The Prophet and the
Sahaabah. Whoever has the right aqeedah is among the saved group that will go
to heaven. Because if you say that every individual group should be counted as a
sect, then there will not be 73 sects but thousands of them. Hence we have to
believe that the sects mentioned in the above hadith are only related to Aqeedah.

My name is not necassary at the moment but regarding my religious identification

"I AM A MUSLIM" and I belong to the Saved group according to my aqeedah as
it is in accordance with the Prophet (S), the Salaf and the Ashab ul Hadith
(Muhaddithoon) who had the same aqeedah as well.

22
I Believe in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, The Day of judgment
and divine destiny (taqdeer). I believe in interpreting the Quran and Ahaadith
According to the understanding of the Prophet and the Sahaabah, tabaeen and
tabe tabaeen i.e. Salaf us Saalih. Unlike you, who give their own interpretations
according to their desires.

Now just incase you have forgotten, here are the questions:
(Note: the first question has not been answered to the point from the very
beginning, if you don't answer it now I WILL ANSWER IT QUOTING YOUR OWN
LITERATURE)

Q1) What is a person who is not a member of your Jamaat?

a) Muslim b) Kaafir
(Note: a person can only be a Muslim or a Kaafir there is no third thing)

Q2)What are the narrators, who are not muhadditheen, who came after the
Khilafah?
a) Muslims b) Kaafirs c) We dont know (we are ignorant)

Q3) Did the muhaddithoon belong to the group that will go to heaven?
a) yes b) no c) We dont Know (we are ignorant)

Answer to the point and not missing out on any.

Based on your response, you will know the state of your Islam. And Allaah is the
Guide to the Straight Path."

After this answer from us they never replied..........

23
 Even a child can disprove their concept.

Let us now study what they say from the grammatical point of view.

They say that Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is the name of the jamaat, i.e. it is a proper
noun, and any other name is not acceptable. Take now the Arabic words Jamaat-
ul-muslimeen.

Now ask an Arab what does it mean. He would answer in English " a Group of
muslims"

Now look at the following sentence :

"I saw a Group of Muslims"

Any little child who knows some grammar, if asked about the above would say,
Group is an adjective (any word that describes a noun) and muslims is a noun.
The same applies to Arabic !!!

Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is not a proper noun at all!!. No person on earth who

knows a bit of Arabic grammar would ever say this.

Hence the people of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen have no strong basis in their

argument.

And above all The Prophet and the Sahabah never said that Jamaat-ul-
muslimeen is a "NAME".

The Jamaat-ul-muslimeen must fear Allah and repent for they have indeed
innovated in Allah's religion. And every innovation leads to Hell fire. Further more
because of this innovation they have declared many as Kaafirs.

The people of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen LIE and say that the prophet said that
"Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is the name of the jamaat.

Let them know this hadith as well:

"He who deliberately attributes a lie to me, let him take his seat in Hell-fire."

Sahih sunan Ibn Majah (1/11/28).

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Please keep this in mind

Jamaat: adjective

Muslimeen: noun

This will shatter their baseless arguments and beliefs, Insha'allah. Allah is the
guide to the straight path !

25
 Latest Findings about the Jamaat ul Muslimeen -
Masoodiyyah

Under this section, we will Insha'Allah be dealing with all the latest happenings,
news and new research to prove Jamaat ul Muslimeen's kufr to the world.

1)New findings about their beliefs regarding Ahadith (the second source of
Islamic Law).

2). A lecture in Urdu refuting Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.

3). How they "automatically" became the chosen ones: :-)

4). Muhammed Ishtiaq, Imam???

5) Masood Ahmed and another one of his lies.

6) Masood Ahmed - The liar.

-------------------------------

1)New findings about their beliefs regarding Ahadith (the second source of
Islamic Law).

The following is a question posted on their website in the QA column. Read their
answer carefully.

"Q # 14:

Do you refer to books written by Albani or Ibn Baaz etc?

Answer:

26
We refer to all books but it is not necessary that we might agree to a hadith which
Albani or anyone etc declared Sahih or dhaeef, we do our own research."

To read original article click here.

It can be clearly understood from their answer that they don't trust anyone. "We
do our own research". We doubt whether their "learned" Ameer or any Tom, Dick
or Harry from Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen knows the number of the different types of
Hadith leave alone their names. Their Kufr is clear here. Refer to the online
debate to know what happened regarding the Ahadith.

---------------------------------------------------------------

2). A lecture in Urdu refuting Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.

While doing some research on the internet, we came across a lecture in Urdu by
Shaikh Abdullah Naasir Rehmani. (source: www.quransunnah.com). The lecture
is in two parts. You would need real player. If you wish to listen please click here.

-------------------------------------------------------

3). How they "automatically" became the chosen ones: :-)

Look at the following statement from their website, we could not stop laughing.
(The article is "Why was Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen revived?")

"We are ordered to remain united and in the form of one Jamaat, this unity of
Muslimeen in the form of a Jamaat has been called Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen by our
Prophet (SallAllah-u-Alaihi-wa-Sallam), so Masood Ahmad and his friends
automatically became Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen by following Quran and Sunnah, and
in practice of sunnah they named their Jamaat Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen."

You cant get more ridiculous than this. :-)

---------------------------------------------------------

4). Muhammed Ishtiaq,Imam??

The Jamaat ul Muslimeen claim they follow the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of
Allaah be upon him) and his companions. However that is just a claim. The
following is taken from one of their books:

27
 They refer to Ishtiaq as Imam. This is not the way of the Prophet (Peace and
Blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Sahabah. Never did the sahabah refer
to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allaah be upon him) or the Khalifas as
"Imam" except for during salah. "Ameer ul Mu'mineen" was the title given to a
Khalifah. This Jamaat wants to avoid using the word Mu'mineen since it goes
against their kufr. They come up with a new innovative titles like "Ameer-e-
Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen".

---------------------------------------------------------

5) Masood Ahmed and another one of his lies.

Masood ahmed in one of his books by the name "Hamara naam sirf ek - Muslim"
clearly mis-translates a verse from the word of Allaah, The Holy Quran.

Note how he has translated the word Ummat as Jamaat. Quite clever. All this just
to support his group and his takfiri aqa'id (beliefs). Any ignorant person (Jamaat
ul Muslimeen is full of them) who doesn't know Arabic and who only reads the
urdu part of the booklet would think that this Jamaat was mentioned in the Quran
as well.

---------------------------------------------------------

6) Another one here.

Look here how he mistranslates again from the same booklet. This time it's not
the word of Allah but the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

28
He translates every word except Jamaat al Muslimeen (for his selfish motives).
Also the Arabic word "Imaamahum" would mean "their Imaam". He translates it
as "Jamaat ul Muslimeen kay Ameer" which means Jamaat ul Muslimeen's
Ameer. Although looks very harmless but when the ignorant read it they are sure
to believe that these are the exact wordings of the hadith. Please note that
Masood Ahmed used to call himself "Ameer of Jamaat ul Mulsimeen".

He continues the same hadith but for the second line, he deliberately removes
the arabic text. See below:

The original Arabic text would be (transliteration): "Fa illam yakullahum jama'atun
wala imaamun?". Which would translate as: "And if there is no Jama'at and no
Imam?". But this man translates it as: "Agar jamaat ul muslimeen na ho...", in
English it would be: "If there is no Jamaat ul muslimeen..." The following
questions are to be asked:

Why did he hide the Arabic text?

Why did he translate the word Jama'at as Jamaat ul muslimeen?

29
 Kufr Quotes - Jamaat ul muslimeen -
Masoodiyyah

In this section, Insha'Allah, we will be dealing with what we heard them saying.
As we have had several interactions with them. Although this would not be solid
proof but it would still be and eye-opener for many. All these days we have been
dealing with their concept as a whole but now let us analyze what they
individually say. The names of the persons (from Jamaat ul Muslimeen) who
made these statements have been withheld. Please note that we went to them as
ordinary people seeking the truth and this is what we heard them say. We did not
go to them for a debate during these quotes. (JM : a person from Jamaat ul
Muslimeen ; WE : Jmexposed). The discussions were in the Urdu language
below is a translation.

1). During one of our discussions with them we asked a person from amongst
them who was a muslim who joined them:

WE: "There are a lot of reverts (converts to Islam) in your Jamaat. Are you also a
revert?"
JM: "All of us (the members of Jamaat ul Muslimeen) are reverts (to Islam)."

As you can see here it is pretty clear what he means by it.

-----------------------------------

2). In a casual living room discussion, we were trying to prove to a person from
their group that they are wrong:

WE: "What is a person who is not a part of Jamaat ul Muslimeen?"

JM: "He is a Kaafir."

No comments...

-----------------------------------

3). One of our associates who left Jamaat ul Muslimeen had a discussion with
one of their members on the points mentioned in the article "The Distinctive
Features of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" and this is what happened:

WE: "You see it says here in point no. 11 "To leave Jamaat ul Muslimeen is to
leave Islam", doesn't this prove that you consider everybody else as Kaafirs?"
JM: "No no, It means if a person joins us and then leaves us, he is a Kaafir."

30
WE: "I was a part of your Jamaat and then I left you. So what am I?"
JM: "A Kaafir."

No comments again. Every thing is self explanatory.

-----------------------------------

4). One of their members on the word Kaafir. There was actually a discussion on
whether or not they consider all besides them as kaafirs or not:

JM: "I don't know why people are afraid of the word "Kaafir". It merely means
(literally) a Farmer."

It can be clearly understood here how they are trying to justify their claims. They
easily call other Muslims as Kaafirs.

-----------------------------------

5). During a discussion about the end of the Khilafah:

WE: "When do you think the Khilafah of the Sahabah ended?"

JM: "The last Khalifah was Omar bin Abdul Aziz, he was the twelfth one and after
that every one (of the Ummah) became a Murtad (Apostate)."

Please refer to the online debate to see how to counter this effectively.

Their Kufr is clear here.

6). This happened during a discussion on Aqeedah and its importance, and how
Jamaat ul Muslimeen has sidelined this aspect of Islam. This person (JM) is a
part of Jamaat ul Muslimeen for the past 14 years.

WE: Where is Allah?

JM: I don't know.

Narrated by Abu Ismaa'eel al-Ansaaree in his book "al-Faarooq" and quoted in

"al-'Aqeedah at-Tahaaweeyah, p.288
Al-Balakhee reports that he asked Imaam Abu Haneefah about a person who
does not know whether his Lord is in the heavens or on earth. Abu Haneefah
replied, "He has disbelieved, because Allaah has said, 'The most Merciuful is
above the Throne (Taahaa 20:5), and His throne is above the seven heavens."
He (al-Balakhee) then said, "What if he then said that He (Allaah) is above the
throne but he does not know whether the throne is in the heavens or on earth?"
He (Abu Haneefah) then replied, "He has disbelieved because he has denied
that He (Allaah) is above the heavens and whoever denies that He (Allaah) is
above the heavens has disbelieved."

31
 Shaikh Albaani on the word "Muslim"

Shaikh Nasiruddin Al-Albaani (Rahimahullah) had a discussion with a person

who, like the Jamaat ul Muslimeen, wanted to use the name "Muslim" only and
nothing else.

Shaikh al-Albaani: "When it is said to you, ‘What is your madhhab’, what is your
reply?"

Questioner: "A Muslim".

Shaikh al-Albaani: "This is not sufficient!".

Questioner: "Allaah has named us Muslims" and he recited the saying of Allaah
Most High, "He is the one who has called you Muslims beforehand." (al-Hajj
22:78)

Shaikh al-Albaani: "This would be a correct answer if we were in the very first
times (of Islaam) before the sects had appeared and spread. But if we were to
ask, now, any Muslim from any of these sects with which we differ on account of
aqeedah, his answer would not be any different to this word. All of them – the
Shi’ite Rafidi, the Khaariji, the Nusayri Alawi – would say, "I am a Muslim".
Hence, this is not sufficient in these days."

Questioner: "In that case I say, I am a Muslim upon the Book and the Sunnah."

Shaikh al-Albaani: "This is not sufficient either".

Questioner: "Why?"

Shaikh al-Albaani: "Do you find any of those whom we have just mentioned by
way of example saying, ‘I am a Muslim who is not upon the Book and the
Sunnah’?" Who is the one who says, ‘I am not upon the Book and the Sunnah’?"

At this point the Shaikh then began to explain in detail the importance of being
upon the Book and the Sunnah in light of the understanding of the Salaf us-
Saalih…

Questioner: "In that case I am a Muslim upon the Book and the Sunnah with the
understanding of the Salaf us-Saalih".

Shaikh al-Albaani: "When a person asks you about your madhhab, is this what
you will say to him?"

32
Questioner: "Yes".

Shaikh al-Albaani: "What is your view that we shorten this phrase in the
language, since the best words are those that are few but indicated the desired
intent, so we say, ‘Salafi’?" End of quotation.

Hence, the point is that naming with "Muslim" or "Sunni" is not enough, since
everyone will claim that. And Imaam al-Albaani emphasised the importance of
the truth being distinguished from the falsehood – from the point of view of the
basis of manhaj and aqidah, and that is taking from the Salaf us-Saalih, as
opposed to the various sects and groups whose understandings are based upon
those of their mentors and leaders and not that of the Salaf, fundamentally.

Source : www.albani.co.uk

33
The Open Challenge for an Online Debate once
more.

The Following is an email sent by us to Jamaat-ul-muslimeen on Tue, 17 May

2005:

"Praise be to Allah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek
refuge with Allah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds.
Whomsoever Allah guides cannot be misled, and whomsoever He leaves astray
cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allah alone, with no
partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and
Messenger.

We at Jmexposed organization strive for excellence in the field of islamic dawah.

Alhamdulillah our website has a new look. Check this link

www.jmexposed.ly2.com

Very soon inshallah we will have a dot com domain and we will advertise heavily
against Kufr and bid'ah (jamaat-ul-muslimeen).

We openly invite you to the truth. If you wish we can have a serious online
debate.

The one and only condition of the debate will be that we promise to have it
posted as it is on our individual websites the way it goes to let the world know.

This will be an e-mail based debate, with six e-mails in total. Three each.

We are waiting for your response.

(P.S: this e-mail will also be posted on our website)

Ameer

Jmexposed organisation."

We are still waiting for their response....

34
Our second challenge to Jamaat ul muslimeen –
Masoodiyyah.

The Following is an email sent by us to Jamaat-ul-muslimeen on Tue, 17 May

2005:

"Praise be to Allah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek
refuge with Allah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds.
Whomsoever Allah guides cannot be misled, and whomsoever He leaves astray
cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allah alone, with no
partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and
Messenger.

We at Jmexposed organization strive for excellence in the field of islamic dawah.

Alhamdulillah our website has a new look. Very soon inshallah we will have a dot
com domain and we will advertise heavily against Kufr and bid'ah (jamaat-ul-
muslimeen). We openly invite you to the truth. If you wish we can have a serious
online debate. The one and only condition of the debate will be that we promise
to have it posted as it is on our individual websites the way it goes to let the world
know. This will be an e-mail based debate, with six e-mails in total. Three each.

We are waiting for your response.

Jmexposed

(P.S: this e-mail will also be posted on our website)"

We are still waiting for a response.

35
 Contact Us

You can contact us on the following e-mail address:

www.jmexposed.ly2.com

jmexposed@gmail.com

Jazakallah Khair!!

36