Netscape Documentary

Tape 123/10198 230 mEg MT interview

Youre an evil man

Whyamlanevilman

Did you or did you not hear the man saying if

you have source leaving one bug

you will be in here at 130

Oh thought it was 230

Now youre evil and stupid

You know what Im actually just in different time zone

fl
thought stupidity was an excuse though Isnt stupidity an excuse

Ignorance ---jumble---its just now you know why youre dying as we kill ycu

So urn your stuff is checked in not checked in

Its not checked in its ready to check in just the XP..

Its not checked in right this instant because..

Because Ive done some things which am not sure work..

File them on to me saying confess that did these things which Im not very

comfortable with and then check your coding and close your bug

There was just lot of inconsistency can just tell

you what it is just fixed alt

the inconsistency

Just check it in

Ok Ill check it in

cause anything youre worried about will be ..just check it in and move on

Ok Youre not worried about breaking some other platform or something are

you just changed the product ---my name

Thats good

dont have any problem there

dont have problem

Hey Lloyd do you want us to turn off the lights so you can show the pretty

--

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Sure we could do it that way It doesnt matter

talk into
dont want to do it Im asking if you want to do it This isnt can you

that

Oh

Do you care

where
of turning the lights off
if people ask questions
Urn lets have the option

could best deal with it by pointing to the page

Alright

Hows that

No snap decisions Equivocate little longer

Did you rush back at my machine to like mad your mail

et
the trees and flames
Uh wanted to check out Thinderbugs

careful night and everything got..

Jeff was really last

Supsedly MAC is fixed and supposedly Windows just got fixed

7/
And supposedly Yanex just got fixed

Next spin Weve high degree of confidence that we dont know what the hell
got

were doing So the next spin

Gramps Garrett didnt toast Mac

stars to actually work these days Well

So what urn are those little supposed

the little tinderbox page

when click on then they just go to like top

You ran three or above

Oh

LAUGHTER

The truth comes out..

2-0
Im amazed that
you run 3-0 Jimmy thought you were
still
running

With these special GWC user agent the browser

a
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Tape 12 3/10/98 230 mtg MT interview

works.. instead what were gonna do

Well given that were not shipping.. that it

LAUGHTER

Were source nuns

Source nuns Thats good

Source whores is what we used to be

You better change your religion

Indistinguishable conversation

dont want to distract them right now

about that
so do something
recognize you little more since you shaved

am growing it back

thing out there because..

Profile manager Do we care about getting
this

No
she decides to own it and
In its an old-style for the....if she cleans it if
fact project

clean it Im fine for it

going out

but after we merged up to roughly Monday

Java was having trouble last night

afternoon suddenly we couldnt click at all

So you own it now

You volunteered Steve

just

NS Modules MAC profile manager

Actually check with check with Cathy.

Can change your name to WD

the
off on what weve done So over the weekend created this page called
Sign

what runs the source

hostage list And what this does it is is script that that pulls

in the tree And we

of various conditions in the files there
tree and checks the state

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Tape
the cameras are on me
Im not being able to speak today because
decided that urn

Okay so urn

as lameass excuse
list And dont use the cameras
Hostage

with joke
Always open

The tree builds

so sanitized these files you have

So whats the deal So signing off on files you

looked at these files and

to everybody that youve
you have
tell
to tell somebody

in and theres
that have the license it
that theyre ok and that means they

from Tinderbox
link to You can get to this page
checklist thats on the this page

check and theres list of things that you can

source Click the list
from the free

about to sign off on And Michael can

true about the files that youre
say that are

click on that
you

to find the link

prefer

and wait please

Could you point

This true about..

Ok So you read
this list is

All interface the Navigator

that Im about to commit to

this is true about the files
the and
you read say
list

You read the list If

process of committing
signing off on
files is
check in And

did the right thing

that some of this is not true or you think you
fear
you have any

what you think is the right

do is do the right thing or
what youre supposed to

fear And
confessing
and then file bug against
Michael Toy and that your
thing

that ii theres
important that you..
its really important that you do this Really

up at
you dont
that might keep you
with that
anything
that youre uncomfortable

do this You do
about that do we have the right to shot4l
night that you worry

form of
what you think is the right thing
and then confess it in the
bun
heads and say yes
Michael Everybody nod their

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Tape 12 3/10/98 230 mtg MT interview

collect
fearless and youre confident you know go past go and your
If youre

$200 right

has conform to this list right

If it conforms to this list Most 99% of the tree gotta

99% of the bottles...they re just gonna..

there on the wall

us an example of whats up
that list
on blurry
Lets.. give

written in Netscape This is true youre gonna go

Oh ok So uh this code is

look
section Are you sure this is Netscape code Well mean you
at

through

and you say well theres guy talking

about BSD here Hmmm maybe
the code

Id be so sure about that

its not Netscape code wouldnt say

code not 100% Netscape code

Not Netscape means

Right

then do the right thing

So if this code started out as someone elses code
Right

but let Michael know

Urn did you actually read the code mean did you did you you know you

off really actually read the code Uh the code has

gotta you just sign
it
saying

Its got the FPL in

the license You looked at the top of the file
proper copyright

in there if it should Urn

Abere if it should or its got somebody elses copyright

theres else weird about it well if its weird and youre not
and then if anything

sure what to do then you file the bug

the
And then after you file bug..

the file
you sign

and have couple fears

Im done believe this code is ready to ship

and theyre filed as separate bugs

we need to examine for that

again unless
it
look that
But we dont have to go at file

fear

that Youre free

Right So youre done with your job at point

Correct

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230 mtg MT interview
Tape 12 3/10/98

And it
goes on to appeal process

the idea is no one should ever.

Right

is be afraid
And another rule

Im let Michael be afraid for me

but
Im gonna follow
rule rule gonna

tells you what

Im
of the page here this basically
Alright so then urn then alot

the file
about how you actually sign
telling you now Theres some instructions

What we do is we do CBS commit dash R2

Who is
gonna help
us MAC weenies do that

You can go to our UNIX log in check out the files..

Someone is going to help us do that..

You are LAUGHTER

awesome of UNIX
Yes we know how power
to wield the

Ill volunteer

If you cant
find somebody come downstairs

Otherwise CBS wont let

you commit
it
Um you need to touch the file before

files been touched Um at the

you commit
it if the
you
comrnit it So itll only let

information that shows us where we are

bottom of the is list of statistical
page

that are
This was 9300 yesterday so there are things
There are 9068 to sign

coming out of the modules

arent reflected there

checked the N2000 files last night that

Urn... LAUGHTER

Up...scroll..

Thats the screen Lloyd

contain the NPL There was about 1000

No actually yesterday...these
files

theres..
yesterday that had the NPL and now

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Tape 12 3/10/98 230 mtg MT interview

think there was about 2000 yesterday that had the NPL There should be about

4000 today

remember there being about 1000 yesterday

You know what We can figure this out

So the unsanitized copyright is warning that maybe its not it has the NPL in

it and another copyright

Untyped files to be less than 1000 by Thursday by Friday morning

And whats in it for us

You guys get donuts either

way

Ok

Youre gonna get donuts whether its me or Michael who buys them

Its dozen donuts Its up on the board there

dozen donuts

Wait minute If Im buying the donuts want to go to the really affordable place

Buy bunch of donuts and one bite will be taken out of each donut

It will be much better if we have Lloyd buy the donuts like those anchovy paste

filled ones

think we should dozen if Lloyds right and dozen if Michaels wrong

get

right

Ok
iC

Lets see You change the superpulse use the.. theres tool that Viii Keitiper

wrote that lets

you..

Ownership

Lets you set ownership

-V
Or if
you dont believe it..

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Tape 12 3/10198 230 mtg MT interview

Change the ownership file And you put owner colon the owner name and thats

the
way the tool will look for it And heres all the directory Put owner colon and

then the name OK

-j So something saw in the two or three times that is bad is uh when was going

through the files and replacing the Put the copyright notice here with the copyright

had some had copyrights on them

notice people put that in files that already Like

like theres be like put the Netscape copyright notice here and then on the next

line like the BSD copyright or an Apple copyright and and..

That would be bad

Well okay so that would be bad but if twist brain around

you your you can kind

of understand what someone was thinking Well this file started out being by this

person over here but then we modified it so its ours too Well dont even

bother there If theres if theres

going license on the file already that lets us

redistribute it just use that license Its good enough We dont need to get in

world where we have to figure out whether these two licenses are actually

compatible So..

Were shipping the first code which contains and each

many files file has its own

individual license Thats whats here

essentially going on

Yes

And we all know that thats whats on

going

Ok so...you can sign files with the preclose because they dont the
actually modify

RCS files Im sorry it doesnt modify the source files so the build shouldnt be

affected

If youre about to do big dump and the tree the close

is
please mail the release

team just so we dont have two cows

But if youre just bumping the version to 2-0 like it

shouldnt you shouldnt even

notice that right

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Tape 12 3/10/98 230 mtg MT interview

Bonsai will tell us

Hes ready to go

Ive been ready for weeks Laughter

Oh sure Alan rub it in

Ok So thats the
only example we have to wony about Mostly Javas going out

so that shouldnt be an issue going removing

Right right And if Im this thing is just using urn the core client stuff and its

not using the stuff thats used to close the

tag with the separate tag and Im

assuming that theres gonna be very little of that the tiEthe buil4 and so there

may some more stuff that comes on..

So the
way you do this is the modules and then look
you pull at the files

Yes

So if you come out of your modules you wont be on if youre not in the modules

youre not on the list

Yes Oh thats the other thing right If you have something that shouldnt be in

the modules mail me will what will do is will remove it from the modules

for you and then will sit

you in front of Tinderbox and make you watch

Tinderbox until it
clears cause its check-in ok And Ill be right out to help

you

Lots of fun What happens if..uh. and know the answer Im

to this but just

asking this to be stupid

This is one of those rhetorical questions..

What happens if we do dash or whatever on it and we decide oh darn we

have to make another change to this file or fill in the blank reason What doom

happens

No doom happens You just check in relax

Everybody

Indistinguishable conversation followed by laughter

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other There is accountability

thing
We know who signed the files Thats the

here We can see who signed it

5YLLJ/X1
OhwehavetosignWithOUr0wnna11

fr- kmt
Idontlikeitasme

Badt the only one going to prison

-/

Ok

...Were all going to prison

about signing
Alright any questions Any questions

What whats ERL for your page

Tinderbox theres
remember but to Tinderbox presource
Uh dont if
you go

iink right at the top the page

Top of the page

Yeah its the Tinderbox go to the top of the page./

presource

.t Hal broke

indistinguishable
my tree

dialog everyone

work
talking at once

Do we really need Links to though

feature
You know Links working would be really interesting

Whats your ETA

jy-
and Links didnt work
The thing that happened was that we did the merge

and so thats what were trying to track

We think that the Mazila thread is forked

down

do you think its something you did or something..

would land there over the

.We think its landing in Java script Sometimes things

weekend As we merged them in we saw this

Java script What the hell was.

and the Mazila thread is forked..

Java inhorked the Mazila thread
Script

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was going to go
down the second that they had information
----C swore up and

in their direction so that we

neededto be whipped
and whip whatever engineers

could get people all over this baby

Youre gonna help us with Windows and
seek fame and fortune
So you just gotta

the
make sure that that keeps moving along So were trying the thing this thing

were not moving Were actually moving and

that Im stressing is its not that

and and then if

We not only do build we do build test

being more cautious

And so its making everyone feel nervous

we see problem we dont land it

understand that we are methodically. you

follow me
think but you should

whole bunch of
do because
Cut to the chase Ok what time are you gonna it

people..

thats what he was gonna wanna know

Did not say

the --- its

Well no see the trees open right now so if you open

counterproductive right

some fairly complex things now and if you catch us

Yeah but the people are doing
TA
MAC Gordon
amid say the projects thats gonna screw up

Like
what we need we need at least two hour lead time right
Well is

at
time where we can
is
say the tree closing
yesterday we need two hour lead

2pm
stable state Then we have to
First weve got to resolve we have to resolve to

traction with that is

like youre not getting any
and merge...If youre looking
try

can out of the..

we over here in Quineage help you guys
there any way that

and
We last night to get ex-heads involved Ricks gonna come over help
stopped

us with Windows make sure..

needs MAC weenies feel free to call whoever you

Gordon
you need any any
If if

need to..

Were doomed here

Links to work on the MAC too Oh man just

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Tape

Ok so why dont we go..

to us for Jerry
Dont talk to us What are you talking

indistinguishable dialog

feel more comfortable

do you think people any
Ok so Windows. .so

Were all doomed You know this..

for the
think Meuncon would have pushed
No the good news is is early on

and that means we although we

and so were shooting hard at that
315 really

dont want to admit it that means were gonna live

the sea.
What was your quote last week Dead bodies greet

dead bodies now Were doing great

Yeah thats right Well theres no right

Not until Michael laters all 2000 bugs

Are you starting to realize

this business
You see theres lot of fame involved in

that yet

to undo everything Ive done for the

This
We did all the initial stuff is just nying

last..

indistinguishable

dont of recap what

is that is being made Why you sort
Todays meeting progress

we just lived through

we live through Hopefully

What we just experienced Well urn what did just

44 their
what do now that theyre all done cleaning
at this point everyone knows to

of tasks that need to be

but the list
files Not everyone is done cleaning their files

that were sure thats

rate pretty
order for us to be clean at
done in is shrinking

and hopefully well

then theres like handoff process
gonna go to zero and

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describe the handoff process So today what we accomplished was that were

seeing good progress on getting the total number of problems down to zero and

also were starting the handoff process hopefully Well look watch the Web

page and see if its actually going on

When is the handoff .. the handoff process begins next week You start releasing

beta of the tree

-t Well probably Monday we will attempt to then grab the whole pile of files that

have been handed off carry it to some machine you know that hasnt previously

been used for development and see whether that looks like you know complete

distribution and if it does then well give it to small number of people outside the

building who have agreed to test it for us

Do you hand it off on CD-Rom or just out of curiosity how does one actually..

No clue

What does it
actually look like when you hand ofL

Yeah well probably go to CD-Rom because its too much stuff to throw over the

wire At Netscape we could do it because we have big fat pipes but not

everybody else has got AT3s or whatever we have

How are you feeling these days How does it feel to be sort of moving down the

pike here

Ah feel progressively better Im still would like it to look easy It stilt doesnt

look easy Id like to get to the point where its like oh were gonna make this

This is cakewalk But were not to that cakewalk part its little
yetjUm
concerning mean expected double the number of people at each of the meetings

we had today So was little concerned Maybe Ijust am not aware of how

many people That really is everybody who ought to be working on this but sort

of in my mind or the magnitude there are more people who should know these

/2 rC zzsc3
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things And so one of the things that have to do is

go run around and find out

from other people how close we were to getting the correct full attendants

------How does this compare to thŁfly daysNetscap6and the release of Dot9

Well in the early days of Netscape it would never be questioned whether all the

people who had to know something knew something mean that that stuff was

all free right You could just stand up and yell it over the top of the cubes and

then everybody would know it And so you werent very you didnt have to focus

on communication You just focused on what you wanted to accomplish In in

an organization this big you really have to focus lot on how effective is
my

communication What are the things were gonna do alright lets do it and how

effective is my communication about those things and am using the right kinds

of communication for as part of the process

Ah Jim Roskin is little bit in the hotseat hercobviously because he has to check

Yeah but thats gonna be uh...or check out

Yeah right Cut it out Tell us little bit about Jim and you know how he is in

situations like this and whether hes feeling any pressure

Yeah think hes feeling lot of pressure but hes the kind of person that the

more pressure he feels the slower and more cautious he becomes right And so

you can kinda trust that hes gonna do the

right thang and uh you know it
may

come slower but it will only be slower because he felt like it needed to be that
way

in order to get it done Jim will come in and if Jim isnt in

by Friday itll be close

to Friday and thatll be good enough

Good great thanks Im looking forward to those donuts

/7

--

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