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1

1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT


FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA :
3 :
vs. : 08 CR 54
4 : 09 CR 121
SHANE BUCZEK : 09 CR 141
5

9 Arraignment and detention hearing in the above-captioned

10 matter held on Wednesday, May 6, 2009, commencing at 10:12

11 a.m., before the Hon. H. Kenneth Schroeder, in the United

12 States Courthouse, 68 Court Street, Buffalo.

13 New York, 14202.

14

15

16
APPEARANCES:
17
GEORGE BURGASSER, ESQUIRE, Office of the U.S.
18 Attorney, 138 Delaware Avenue, Buffalo,
New York, appeared for the Government.
19
SHANE C. BUCZEK, appeared pro se.
20

21

22

23
RECORDED BY FTR GOLD ELECTRONIC RECORDING
24 TRANSCRIBED BY DEBRA L. POTOCKI, RMR, RDR, CRR
843/723-2208
25
2

1 THE CLERK: United States versus Shane Buczek, Docket

2 No. 08-CR-54. This is a status conference. Assistant United

3 States Attorney George Burgasser appearing on behalf of the

4 Government, and Shane Buczek appearing pro se.

5 THE COURT: Good morning.

6 MR. BURGASSER: Good morning, Your Honor.

7 THE DEFENDANT: Good morning.

8 THE COURT: Mr. Buczek, did you receive a copy of the

9 evaluation report?

10 THE DEFENDANT: No, Your Honor, nothing.

11 THE COURT: You did not?

12 THE DEFENDANT: No.

13 THE COURT: Well, you are certainly entitled to it.

14 And I'm referring to the evaluation report from the Federal

15 Medical Center in Devens.

16 THE DEFENDANT: That's correct.

17 THE COURT: I'm going to have my law clerk make a

18 copy of the report for you right now, Mr. Buczek, so that you

19 have it.

20 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.

21 THE COURT: Am I correct in understanding there's

22 another indictment right now?

23 MR. BURGASSER: There is, Your Honor. Does the Court

24 have a copy of that? I have an extra.

25 THE COURT: No, I don't.


3

1 MR. BURGASSER: Let me bring this up to the Court.

2 It's a two count indictment.

3 THE COURT: Have you given Mr. Buczek a copy?

4 MR. BURGASSER: He does have a copy, Your Honor, and

5 he was also mailed a copy on an earlier date.

6 THE COURT: Is there a criminal number assigned to

7 this one? Oh, yeah, 09-CR-121.

8 MR. BURGASSER: Correct, Your Honor, Judge Skretny.

9 THE COURT: Are you handling this one, or is --

10 MR. BURGASSER: Mr. Bruce is handling this, Your

11 Honor. He's unavailable, and I am standing in for him for

12 today's appearance.

13 THE COURT: Let the record reflect that my law clerk

14 is now handing Mr. Buczek a copy of the evaluation report that

15 was done by the Federal Medical Center at Ayer, Massachusetts,

16 consisting of ten typewritten pages. You have that report,

17 correct, Mr. Buczek?

18 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor.

19 THE COURT: Okay.

20 THE DEFENDANT: Is this our discussion for today? Or

21 are we going --

22 THE COURT: We're going to have to discuss where

23 we're going in the case in 08-CR-54. But I also want to

24 arraign you on the new indictment in case 09-CR-121.

25 How are you doing this for docket sheet purposes?


4

1 THE CLERK: I'm going to do one docket referencing

2 both numbers.

3 THE COURT: So you want to step up to the podium,

4 Mr. Buczek?

5 THE DEFENDANT: So there's a case number for this

6 now, right?

7 THE COURT: Right, it's up on the top, you'll see it.

8 THE DEFENDANT: 09?

9 THE COURT: Yes.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

11 THE COURT: All right? Mr. Buczek, you have been

12 indicted by the federal grand jury for the Western District of

13 New York sitting in the May 2007 term, in the case of United

14 States of America versus Shane C. Buczek, case number

15 09-CR-121. Have you received a copy of that indictment?

16 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge, I received it around

17 7:00 o'clock in Batavia.

18 THE COURT: Okay.

19 THE DEFENDANT: Last night, and I just reviewed it

20 last night. Came at the last minute.

21 THE COURT: The indictment contains two counts. You

22 have the right, if you so wish, to have me read the indictment

23 to you, or you can waive the reading of it.

24 THE DEFENDANT: No, I would like you to read it,

25 please.
5

1 THE COURT: You want me to read it to you.

2 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

3 THE COURT: All right. This is in the case of United

4 States of America versus Shane C. Buczek. Count one, the

5 grand jury charges that from on or about September 18th, 2008,

6 to on or about January 16th, 2009, in the Western District of

7 New York and elsewhere, the defendant, Shane C. Buczek,

8 unlawfully, willfully and knowingly executed and attempted to

9 execute a scheme and artifice to defraud, and to obtain the

10 money, funds, credits, assets and other property owned by and

11 under the control of a financial institution, namely, HSBC NA,

12 hereinafter HSBC, an institution which had its deposits

13 insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.

14 That is to say, on or about September 18, 2008, the

15 defendant, Shane C. Buczek, opened a credit account at Best

16 Buy in Hamburg, New York, which account had a credit limit of

17 $3300, and which account was actually a Visa account with

18 HSBC. Thereafter, the defendant used the account to purchase

19 various items from Best Buy, which purchases approximately

20 equaled the defendant's $3300 credit limit.

21 Then, on or about November 13, November 17, November 24,

22 November 25 and November 28, and again on December 2nd, 2008,

23 in efforts to replenish his line of credit, the defendant

24 contacted HSBC's Check Direct department to pay down his

25 balance, each time by supplying HSBC with the routing number


6

1 of Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation, referred to as

2 DTCC of New York City. And an account number of an account in

3 the defendant's name at DTCC, and directing HSBC to debit that

4 account to pay the defendant's outstanding balance.

5 In truth and in fact, the defendant did not have, and knew

6 he did not have an account at DTCC, and knew that in supplying

7 HSBC with the routing number for DTCC, and an account number

8 for an account at DTCC in his name, the defendant was

9 providing HSBC with false information for the purpose, among

10 others, of temporarily returning his line of credit to or near

11 its $3300 limit, so that he could make additional purchases

12 from Best Buy.

13 Then, following each instance in which the defendant

14 supplied HSBC with DTCC's routing number, and a number of the

15 nonexistent account at DTCC, the defendant made further

16 purchases from Best Buy, knowing that by employing the scheme

17 outlined above, he was enriching himself with Best Buy

18 merchandise, knowing full well that HSBC would never be paid

19 for the defendant's purchases from Best Buy. All in violation

20 of Section 1344 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

21 In count two of the indictment the grand jury further

22 charges that defendant, Shane C. Buczek, was on release

23 pursuant to an order dated March 13, 2008 from the United

24 States District Court for the Western District of New York,

25 Case No. 08-CR-54, which order notified said defendant of the


7

1 potential effect of committing an offense while on pretrial

2 release.

3 From on or about September 18, 2008 to on or about

4 January 16, 2009, in the Western District of New York and

5 elsewhere, the defendant, Shane C. Buczek, did commit the

6 offense of bank fraud in the manner set forth in count one of

7 this indictment, in violation of Title 18 United States Code

8 Section 1344. All in violation of Title 18 United States Code

9 Section 3147 subdivision (1).

10 Since you are representing yourself, I ask you,

11 Mr. Buczek, how do you plead to these counts in the

12 indictment; guilty or not guilty.

13 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, as authorized

14 representative of the name on the paperwork, and the entity,

15 I'm going to go ahead and ask first for a certified copy of

16 the record, and the grand jury transcripts and the logs from

17 the clerk. And I'd like to ask for a signed copy from the

18 grand jury. And again, I think I might have mentioned this

19 back in March 14th of 2008, again, I do not accept this offer

20 or presentment, and I don't consent to any proceedings. I

21 just -- when I received it yesterday at the last minute, it

22 was just -- in a way, I wasn't surprised, but it's just --

23 MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, just's for the record --

24 THE DEFENDANT: -- amazing. Absolutely amazing.

25 MR. BURGASSER: The letter was sent out on


8

1 April 21st, 2009, from Mr. Bruce, with a copy of the

2 indictment. I don't know when it was received by the

3 defendant.

4 THE DEFENDANT: Right here, Judge. I got it last

5 night.

6 THE COURT: The point is, you have received a copy of

7 the indictment, right, Mr. Buczek?

8 THE DEFENDANT: Yes. That's correct.

9 THE COURT: And I just read the charges to you,

10 correct?

11 THE DEFENDANT: That's correct, yes.

12 THE COURT: All right. So you are now aware that you

13 have been charged with a two count indictment, as I've read to

14 you. Correct?

15 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

16 THE COURT: And how do you plead to those charges,

17 guilty or not guilty?

18 THE DEFENDANT: Judge, I object to any type of plea

19 at this time.

20 THE COURT: All right, then I will enter a plea of

21 not guilty on your behalf as to each count of the indictment.

22 THE DEFENDANT: And I would object to that.

23 THE COURT: Your objection is noted.

24 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.

25 THE COURT: Now, because you are charged with a crime


9

1 in this indictment, as well as the crimes charged in the prior

2 indictment in the companion case, you once again have the

3 right to remain silent. You cannot be compelled to answer any

4 questions, you cannot be compelled to make any statements,

5 because anything you might say, can be used against you.

6 However, you also have the right to be represented at all

7 stages of this case by an attorney. And you have the right to

8 hire an attorney of your choice. But if you cannot afford to

9 hire an attorney because of your financial condition, the

10 Court will assign an attorney to represent you. And the cost

11 for that service will be paid for by the taxpayers of this

12 country.

13 So even though I've just advised you that you do not have

14 to answer any questions put to you by anyone, including me, in

15 order for me to make sure your constitutional rights regarding

16 hiring of counsel and being represented by counsel are carried

17 out, the only way I can reasonably do that is by asking you

18 certain limited questions about counsel. And in doing that,

19 in asking you those questions, I do not want you to say

20 anything about the case, the charges against you, or make any

21 other comments or statements, other than what is in response

22 to my questions about counsel. Because anything else you

23 might say, can be used against you.

24 Do you understand?

25 THE DEFENDANT: Judge --


10

1 THE COURT: Do you understand; yes or no.

2 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

3 THE COURT: I'm sorry?

4 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

5 THE COURT: All right. Do you plan on hiring an

6 attorney of your choice?

7 THE DEFENDANT: I do plan on getting counsel when I

8 get out of here, but at this point I've been in, you know,

9 I've been locked up for four months now for a psych evaluation

10 that I have completed.

11 THE COURT: I understand. Don't go any further,

12 Mr. Buczek.

13 THE DEFENDANT: I --

14 THE COURT: Do you plan on hiring an attorney of your

15 choice?

16 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

17 THE COURT: All right. Do you have an attorney in

18 mind?

19 THE DEFENDANT: I have a few, yes, but I can't really

20 do much of anything. In fact, I want to let you know that my

21 family planned on being here, we had about ten people coming

22 today, and we tried to change the date to Monday or Tuesday,

23 but we couldn't do it. And everybody had to leave for an

24 emergency conference, so that's why there's -- my family's not

25 here today.
11

1 THE COURT: Well, your family did contact my

2 chambers.

3 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

4 THE COURT: And your family had been in contact with

5 my chambers on a regular basis, inquiring as to when you were

6 going to be returned to the Western District of New York and

7 when you would be appearing. And because I felt it absolutely

8 necessary to schedule your appearance as soon as I knew the

9 Marshal Service would have you here in the Western District of

10 New York, as well as giving the appropriate parties sufficient

11 notice that you were going to be here, I scheduled a

12 conference for today, that being the first available date, so

13 that all of those factors could be taken into account and

14 accomplished.

15 I had that explained to your parents when they called, and

16 indicated to them that it was my obligation to make sure that

17 the matter was not delayed any further, as they had requested,

18 because they were not going to be in attendance, and that it

19 was my obligation to make sure that your constitutional rights

20 were being effectuated, and that you were being brought into

21 court so that you could be advised of your present

22 circumstances, as well as be arraigned on this new indictment,

23 as soon as was reasonably possible. And that's why we

24 maintained the schedule of today, May 6, 2009.

25 Now, we do have the situation arising out of the other


12

1 case, 08-CR-54, wherein and whereby you will recall you had

2 previously been released on bail, subject to certain terms and

3 conditions that I had imposed. But that on January 16th,

4 2009, the Government had made a motion to have your bail

5 revoked, claiming you had violated terms and conditions of

6 bail that I had imposed.

7 And on January 16th, 2009, in that case, 08-CR-54, I, on

8 my own motion, so to speak, the appropriate legal term being

9 sua sponte, after listening to you and having heard your

10 statements, took it upon myself, as the law allowed under the

11 statute, ordered that the mental evaluation pursuant to Title

12 18 of the United States Code Section 4241(b) be effectuated.

13 And that was why you then were sent to the Federal Medical

14 Center at Devens. And the report then thereafter was

15 prepared, a copy of which was given to you this morning.

16 I further, as part of the Government's motion, as well as

17 what had transpired on January 16, 2009, revoked your bail,

18 but reserved your right and the Government's right for

19 reconsideration as to the issue of bail upon your return from

20 that evaluation at Federal Medical Center Devens.

21 We now have the new indictment with totally new different

22 charges in the case of United States versus Shane C. Buczek,

23 09-CR-121. So the bail issue really is one both in that new

24 case, as well as the case of 08-CR-54.

25 What's the Government's position, Mr. Burgasser, as to


13

1 both cases?

2 MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, we're moving to detain as

3 to both indictments.

4 THE DEFENDANT: And, Judge, I would object to that.

5 THE COURT: You have a right to, Mr. Buczek.

6 THE DEFENDANT: I -- the indictment that I got

7 yesterday -- well, first let me back up a second. When I was

8 detained back on January 16th, I'm sure you probably already

9 looked at my itinerary, all the different locations I've been

10 over the last four months.

11 THE COURT: That's the travel -- logistical travel

12 system that the Marshal Service utilizes in transporting

13 people who are in detention to take them to the facilities

14 that they're to be delivered to.

15 THE DEFENDANT: I know, I just want to make a record

16 of it, that's all. I had no idea what I was looking at. I

17 had no idea I was going to be transferred all over the

18 Northeast. And then when I got to Devens, I was there, I

19 thought I was going to be there for 30 days, ended up being

20 two months. And I had no idea I was going to be at a county

21 jail for two weeks, I had no idea I was going to Ohio. So

22 everything I've been through is -- I mean, I've been under

23 severe duress the whole time. And I've kept my cool about

24 everything. And now this latest indictment -- and I know, I

25 know that you -- this indictment is -- it's not valid, Judge.


14

1 It's just baffles me. But I'm not surprised.

2 I believe I sent you a letter of rogatory, I'm not sure if

3 you ever read it or not, explaining basically if I have

4 standing to even speak as a beneficiary at all. I don't know

5 if I do or if I don't.

6 THE COURT: Beneficiary of what?

7 THE DEFENDANT: Have you ever had an opportunity to

8 read the --

9 THE COURT: I read your letter where you were

10 requesting production of the names of the grand jurors who

11 returned the indictment in 08-CR-54.

12 THE DEFENDANT: And you have never had an opportunity

13 to read the letter of rogatory?

14 THE COURT: I don't know what letter you're referring

15 to.

16 THE DEFENDANT: I have a copy right here, Judge.

17 THE COURT: What's the date of it?

18 THE DEFENDANT: April 13th, 2009.

19 THE COURT: All right. Where did you send it to?

20 THE DEFENDANT: I sent it to your chambers, and also

21 William Skretny, Judge William Skretny.

22 THE COURT: It may not have come to me, it may have

23 gone to the clerk's office, and has not yet been processed up

24 here.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.


15

1 THE COURT: I don't know what the status is as far as

2 what you sent to Judge Skretny's chambers.

3 THE DEFENDANT: But everything in this letter's

4 outlined, and supports this indictment that's totally invalid.

5 THE COURT: You're talking about 08-CR-54?

6 THE DEFENDANT: 09-00121. The latest one.

7 THE COURT: All right.

8 MR. BURGASSER: I thought he just got that last

9 night.

10 THE DEFENDANT: No, this is a letter I sent to the

11 judge, letter of rogatory.

12 MR. BURGASSER: No, you said in reference to

13 09-CR-121, which is the new indictment, which you said you

14 just received last night.

15 THE DEFENDANT: That's correct, yes.

16 MR. BURGASSER: So you just sent the letter out last

17 night?

18 THE DEFENDANT: No. No, no, no, this was sent back

19 on April 13th.

20 THE COURT: That's the question that counsel for the

21 Government seems to be raising is, if you claim you just got

22 this new indictment last night, how could you be writing a

23 letter on April 13th about an indictment that you just got

24 last night?

25 THE DEFENDANT: Because when I was arrested back in


16

1 January, it says they might possibly do a superseding

2 indictment. Remember the complaint that they had?

3 THE COURT: I understand.

4 THE DEFENDANT: I knew it was coming down the

5 pipeline, and I says, well, hey, you know, that's why I did a

6 special letter of rogatory to the Judge Skretny and you in

7 your chambers.

8 THE COURT: All right. At that time the case had not

9 been indicted, on April 13th, as I understand it.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

11 THE COURT: Wait a minute. The date of the

12 indictment is April 21st, 2009. And the case had not been

13 referred to me until apparently April 24th, 2009. So I would

14 not have been even notified by the clerk's office as to your

15 April 13th letter, since the case had not yet been assigned to

16 me.

17 THE DEFENDANT: Well, I mailed it to you, and I even

18 made a copy of the envelope for evidence, too.

19 THE COURT: I'm not questioning that you mailed it.

20 I'm just saying I have not seen it and I have not taken any

21 action with respect to it.

22 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

23 THE COURT: But I did get your prior motion -- I'll

24 call it a motion, I'm treating it as a motion -- in 08-CR-54,

25 where you were seeking the names of the grand jurors and the
17

1 minutes of the grand jury proceeding, because you claim that

2 the indictment returned in that case is defective.

3 THE DEFENDANT: Right. And I didn't really want to,

4 you know, argue that, but I want to point out page five of the

5 post settlement closure that was filed back on November 7th of

6 2008, that was --

7 THE COURT: Now, I don't understand what you mean by

8 post settlement closure.

9 THE DEFENDANT: Post settlement closure? Well, I

10 went ahead and got it authenticated and got the two seals from

11 the --

12 THE COURT: I saw that, where you got a seal

13 indicating --

14 THE DEFENDANT: DOJ of the U.S.

15 THE COURT: -- the authenticity of the Department of

16 Justice and the authenticity of the State Department of the

17 United States.

18 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

19 THE COURT: But I have to say to you in all candor, I

20 don't know what either one of those have to do with the case,

21 08-CR-54. All that those authentications said was that the

22 signature of the individual from the Department of Justice was

23 an authentic signature, and the signature of Condoleezza Rice

24 at the Federal -- at the United States State Department was

25 authentic. But I don't know what Condoleezza Rice, in her


18

1 capacity of Secretary of State of the United States, and what

2 the position of the individual -- I can't remember whether it

3 was the Attorney General himself or a deputy Attorney General,

4 but what either one of those two authentications had to do

5 with the case.

6 The grand jury indictment, 08-CR-54, as I indicated, when

7 it was returned to me by the grand jury foreperson, and I

8 reviewed it, and I stated for the record that the return and

9 the report submitted by the grand jury, through the

10 foreperson, established to my satisfaction that the

11 appropriate number of grand jurors had voted for the return of

12 the indictment. And my review of the indictment established

13 that it had been properly executed on behalf of the United

14 States Attorney for the Western District of New York, as well

15 as by the foreperson of the grand jury, and I received it then

16 as a valid indictment.

17 THE DEFENDANT: Are we ever going to be able to get a

18 certified copy of the record at all?

19 THE COURT: Why do you need a certified copy of the

20 record?

21 THE DEFENDANT: I need that, Judge.

22 THE COURT: For what?

23 THE DEFENDANT: To validate the indictment.

24 THE COURT: The indictment has been found to be

25 valid. I just got finished telling you that.


19

1 THE DEFENDANT: All right.

2 THE COURT: I did that when it was returned to me,

3 when it was brought to me, and I reviewed the record of the

4 grand jurors concurring in the voting of the indictment.

5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

6 THE COURT: And I reviewed the indictment, and I

7 found that the indictment had been properly executed on behalf

8 of the United States Attorney, as well as by the foreperson of

9 the grand jury.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

11 THE COURT: And that the appropriate number of grand

12 jurors had voted for the return of the indictment. That made

13 it a valid indictment.

14 Now, that's not to say you cannot make motions attacking

15 the legal sufficiency of the indictment. For example, but not

16 limited to, your claim that the charges in the indictment are

17 not properly stated. Or that the charges in the indictment

18 are defective for some reason or other. But you have to spell

19 that out in a motion.

20 Once again, as I tried on numerous occasions when you

21 appeared before me, and I'm going to try again this morning,

22 these are complex legal matters and complex legal issues. And

23 it's because of that, that I told you it would be in your best

24 interest, in my opinion, to have an attorney represent you,

25 rather than you trying to represent yourself, because you do


20

1 not have any training in the law, and that you, as I've

2 indicated to you in the past, are basically trying to walk

3 through a mine field blindfolded. And it's very dangerous.

4 THE DEFENDANT: I realize that.

5 THE COURT: And so I once again implore that you give

6 serious thought to having an attorney represent you.

7 THE DEFENDANT: I'm entertaining --

8 THE COURT: These are serious charges, both in

9 08-CR-54 and 09-CR-121. And as I've indicated to you, if you

10 cannot afford to hire an attorney, I will assign an attorney

11 to represent you, so you don't have to be worried about

12 whether you're going to have the money to get an attorney. If

13 you do not have the money, I will assign a competent attorney

14 who has been certified as one who is qualified to practice in

15 this court and handle these types of cases.

16 THE DEFENDANT: I just want to finish up on that

17 letter of rogatory I mentioned earlier, if I had standing in

18 this court to be a beneficiary.

19 THE COURT: I don't know what you mean by standing as

20 a beneficiary. You are in this court as a defendant charged

21 with crimes under two separate indictments.

22 THE DEFENDANT: And I mentioned before, Judge, I am

23 the authorized representative of the entity.

24 THE COURT: You can represent yourself under the

25 Constitution of the United States. I told you that in


21

1 08-CR-54; I'm telling you that now in 09-CR-121. You have a

2 constitutional right to represent yourself. I am not

3 disagreeing with you on that. However, what I am suggesting

4 to you, as I indicated to you once before, not being trained

5 in the law, trying to represent yourself in a serious criminal

6 case is very very dangerous. And I told you, I used the

7 analogy, it's like trying to walk through a mine field

8 blindfolded. And that you're not going to be doing yourself

9 any real benefit, when you could be represented by an attorney

10 who at least is trained in the law and who at least has

11 experience in these types of cases.

12 But, if you so choose to exercise your constitutional

13 right to represent yourself, then you have the right to do so.

14 The choice is yours. So you have standing to be your own

15 attorney, as a pro se defendant.

16 THE DEFENDANT: But I don't have standing for a

17 beneficiary?

18 THE COURT: I don't understand what that means.

19 Unless you're trying to say that you're the beneficiary of an

20 indictment, which is a contradiction in terms. You are the

21 defendant in an indictment, which means the Government has

22 charged you with a crime.

23 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. And have you appointed a

24 trustee to the case at all?

25 THE COURT: A trustee?


22

1 THE DEFENDANT: Correct.

2 THE COURT: No; why would I appoint a trustee?

3 THE DEFENDANT: That's what the letter of rogatory

4 and beneficiary claim was all about.

5 THE COURT: We're not dealing with trusts and

6 estates.

7 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

8 THE COURT: What is the res of the trust? Do you

9 know what I mean by res, R-E-S? What is the principal of the

10 trust that you claim to be a beneficiary of?

11 THE DEFENDANT: That was the whole purpose of a

12 trustee, Judge.

13 THE COURT: I'm totally confused. You have to

14 explain to me, Mr. Buczek, and I'm not being flip, I just do

15 not understand what you're talking about.

16 THE DEFENDANT: And I --

17 THE COURT: I understand trusts, I understand a res

18 or a principal of a trust. I understand what a trustee is,

19 and I understand what a beneficiary of a trust is. I did take

20 those courses in law school. But I don't understand how you

21 think that applies in a criminal case, wherein and whereby you

22 are a named defendant charged in two separate indictments

23 brought by the United States Government. There's no trust

24 fund involved here. There's no claim that you embezzled trust

25 funds as a trustee or as a beneficiary. What you're charged


23

1 with is that you have defrauded a bank by using false

2 documents and false information in order to get lines of

3 credit.

4 THE DEFENDANT: And I believe HSBC should be

5 indicted. Because they're -- Judge, I don't want to get out

6 on a tangent here, because you know how I feel about

7 everything. But getting back to the original indictment, I --

8 THE COURT: 08-CR-54.

9 THE DEFENDANT: The newest one, I should say. Sorry.

10 THE COURT: That's 09-CR-121.

11 THE DEFENDANT: Correct, yeah, the newest one.

12 Again, I'm just going to go one more time I'm going to ask for

13 a certified copy of the record, certified copy of the grand

14 jury transcripts that took place to even get this indictment.

15 And again, if we can't get that, then I'm just going to put on

16 the record that I do not consent to the proceedings, and I do

17 not consent to the indictment. That's all.

18 THE COURT: All right. I'm denying your request for

19 certified copies of the grand jury proceedings at this time

20 without prejudice. I am denying your request for a certified

21 copy of the record of these proceedings.

22 I am noting for the record, your objection to these

23 proceedings taking place. But nevertheless, I have indicated

24 and repeat that I am entering a plea of not guilty on your

25 behalf to the two counts contained in 09-CR-121.


24

1 Now, how much time do you think you will need to make

2 contact with or have your family make contact with or someone

3 on your behalf make contact with an attorney that you have in

4 mind for purposes of hiring that attorney?

5 THE DEFENDANT: As soon as I can meet with one. I

6 don't know how much time it's going to be before I even have a

7 hearing to be released. I need to meet with an attorney or

8 counsel. This case is just overwhelming. I had no idea this

9 was going to blow up into this as of January 16th. And we

10 were close to a plea deal, but there's some issues in the plea

11 that Mr. Bruce and I never got -- had an opportunity to talk

12 about. But I do want to get some type of assistance of

13 counsel.

14 THE COURT: Do you want me to assign an attorney to

15 represent you?

16 THE DEFENDANT: If you believe that that would help

17 me in my defense.

18 THE COURT: I certainly do. I've been telling you

19 that right from the beginning. In fact, I had assigned

20 standby counsel for you. I had assigned the Federal Public

21 Defender's office to assist you.

22 THE DEFENDANT: Who was that? I didn't -- I never

23 knew that.

24 THE COURT: I think it was Mr. Humann. But you

25 insisted that you did not want standby counsel. You had your
25

1 own counsel, Mr. Altman, and then you terminated him.

2 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, but there was cause behind

3 that.

4 THE COURT: I don't want to get into what the

5 relationship, what the reasons were, I'm merely pointing out

6 that you were represented at one time by counsel of your

7 choice; that was Mr. Altman. Then you terminated him. And

8 then I had you before me and I indicated to you that you

9 should get new counsel, if you were going to hire counsel, or

10 that I was prepared to assign counsel to represent you, if you

11 could not afford to have counsel. And you indicated to me at

12 that time that you did not want me to assign counsel.

13 Then I contemplated, and maybe I didn't do it formally,

14 assigning the Federal Public Defender's office on a standby

15 basis, just to be there to give you some assistance.

16 Now, if you want me to assign counsel to represent you, I

17 will assign counsel to represent you in each case, 08-CR-54

18 and 09-CR-121. However, before I can make the formal

19 assignment, you must agree and you must fill out a financial

20 affidavit setting forth your financial circumstances, and

21 agree to allow me to place you under oath and question you

22 about your financial circumstances, because that is the only

23 way I can reasonably determine whether you do qualify to have

24 such an assignment of counsel made, because of your financial

25 circumstances. If you do so agree, I will limit my questions


26

1 solely to your financial circumstances, and will not question

2 you about anything else about the case, the charges or

3 anything of any other nature. And I will also instruct you

4 that I do not want you to say anything about the case or the

5 charges or anything else, and that I want you to limit your

6 answers solely to your financial circumstances. Because once

7 again, anything else you might say, can be used against you.

8 Now, are you willing to fill out a financial affidavit and

9 swear to its contents as being complete and true, and allow me

10 to place you under oath and question you about your finances,

11 in order for me to determine whether you qualify to have

12 assignment of counsel made?

13 THE DEFENDANT: Judge, I'd like to meet with my

14 family first.

15 THE COURT: All right.

16 THE DEFENDANT: That's why I was hoping to get this

17 hearing done.

18 THE COURT: I'm willing to do that. Now, as I

19 understand it, and as you indicated, your family have left the

20 area for a trip of some sort.

21 THE DEFENDANT: It was an emergency conference.

22 THE COURT: I'm not quarreling with you, I'm just

23 stating that as I understand it, your family's not available

24 right now.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Right.


27

1 THE COURT: Okay. I'm willing to give you time until

2 they return. But I want you to understand then that nothing

3 further is going to transpire on either one of these two cases

4 until your family has returned and you have had an opportunity

5 to discuss this matter with them. Do you understand?

6 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

7 THE COURT: Do you know when they're supposed to

8 return?

9 THE DEFENDANT: In approximately one week.

10 THE COURT: All right.

11 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah.

12 THE COURT: Just so you understand then, you will be

13 detained, that is, you'll be taken back to where they've been

14 housing you, at least for that period of time while we're

15 waiting for your family's return, and then you're going to

16 have to have some time to discuss the matter with your family.

17 And then if your family and you are going hire an attorney,

18 you're going to need some time to make those arrangements.

19 And then I have to be notified that that's been done, and I'll

20 schedule the matter thereafter, so that we can get this case

21 moving.

22 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Now, we're not going to be

23 getting into being released at all, or -- because the order --

24 THE COURT: No, because I want you to have the

25 services of an attorney. If that's what you are going to do.


28

1 The Constitution says you have a right to be represented at

2 all stages of the case. And, therefore, because detention

3 hearings, which you have a right to, in response to the

4 Government's motion to not let you be released on bail, you

5 have a right to a detention hearing. But a detention hearing

6 involves legal issues and legal procedures. And because of

7 that, I suggest to you that you should wait until you have an

8 attorney to represent you, so that the attorney can address

9 those legal issues and those legal procedures on your behalf.

10 THE DEFENDANT: So no entertainment of bail at all,

11 because I've completed the psychological evaluation?

12 THE COURT: The issue of bail is now totally related

13 to other factors and elements. It is not related to the

14 psychological evaluation. The issue of bail now is whether

15 there are terms and conditions that I could impose that would

16 ensure your compliance with the terms and conditions of bail,

17 that would ensure to a reasonable extent that you will not go

18 out and commit further crime, allegedly, or to ensure that you

19 will appear in court when you are scheduled to appear in

20 court. In other words, that you will not flee.

21 Those are the issues that will have to be addressed for

22 purposes of bail.

23 Now, as you already know, back on January 16th, 2009, the

24 Government moved to revoke your bail in 08-CR-54, claiming

25 that you violated the terms and conditions of bail set in that
29

1 case, by your actions in going out and allegedly defrauding

2 Best Buy in the purchase of the flat screen TVs, the washers

3 and dryers and so forth, which are the subject matter of this

4 new indictment in 09-CR-121. And that's why the Government

5 moved to have your bail revoked.

6 I was addressing that issue on January 16, 2009, when you

7 made your statements to me about this fund you claimed existed

8 and this administrator in Texas that you claimed you had, if I

9 recall correctly, a $2 billion account upon which you, under

10 the United States Treasury Regulations were entitled to draw

11 upon. And as you had gone into great detail about that

12 so-called fund that you said entitled you to draw upon,

13 because of your social security number, that I had concerns

14 about --

15 THE DEFENDANT: My psychological evaluation.

16 THE COURT: Your psychological evaluation. And

17 that's why I, sua sponte, then asked for and directed that

18 there be such an evaluation done. We now have that completed.

19 We are now going to go forward on both cases, 08-CR-54 and

20 09-CR-121. We are at this stage, this threshold stage of

21 counsel representation. I am giving you and your family the

22 opportunity to discuss and to take steps within which to hire

23 an attorney of your choice, that being your constitutional

24 right, if that's what is going to be done. If that is not

25 what is going to be done, and you come to that conclusion


30

1 after you have had an opportunity to confer with your family,

2 you will then have to consider whether you are going to ask

3 the Court to assign an attorney to represent you. And if you

4 are going to do that, you must then fill out a financial

5 affidavit, swear to its contents as being complete and true,

6 and allow me to place you under oath and question you about

7 your financial circumstances. If that does occur, and I

8 determine that you do qualify financially to have an

9 assignment made, I will then appoint an experienced, competent

10 attorney to represent you in both cases, 08-CR-54 and

11 09-CR-121, so as to effectuate your constitutional rights to

12 be represented at all stages of both cases.

13 If such an assignment is made, then, after that attorney

14 has been assigned, I will bring you and that attorney back

15 with the Government's attorney in order to discuss the

16 scheduling of a bail hearing in both cases, 08-CR-54 and

17 09-CR-121.

18 In addition to discussing the bail issues in both cases,

19 that attorney, in your presence with you here in court and

20 with the Government's attorney here, we will also address

21 putting in place a scheduling order in both cases. Scheduling

22 order being deadlines for when motions are to be filed on your

23 behalf, when responses to any motions filed must be made by

24 the Government, and my scheduling argument of those motions.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Judge, if I proceed as I have been


31

1 proceeding, and that was one of the issues I had with

2 Mr. Altman, is our discovery issues. Will we ever ever get

3 discovery in the original case that we put a bill of

4 particulars in way back in the springtime of 2008, still no

5 answer on that. I'm afraid to even put any motions in,

6 because they're going to be denied, like Mr. Altman told me.

7 He said it doesn't matter what you put in here, they're all

8 going to be denied. I said, wait a second.

9 THE COURT: I don't want you to disclose your

10 conversation with your prior attorney. If you get an

11 attorney, either an attorney you hire of your choice or I end

12 up assigning an attorney, we will then address those issues.

13 And yes, you will have the right to make motions for

14 discovery. In fact, there will be a procedure in which I will

15 direct the United States Government, by its attorney, to

16 provide voluntary discovery material to your attorney. In

17 both cases. And then we will also set a scheduling order as

18 to when motions must be filed, when motions must be responded

19 to and when motions will be argued. But I can't do anything

20 right now in that regard until I know what the situation is

21 going to be as far as attorney representation. Because those

22 are your constitutional rights, your constitutional right to

23 hire an attorney of your choice. If you exercise that right,

24 then you need time to talk to your family and you need time to

25 work out the arrangements with the attorney to retain that


32

1 attorney. And I'm going to give you that time.

2 If it turns out, after you've had discussions with your

3 family, that you are not going to be in a position to hire an

4 attorney of your choice because of the financial

5 circumstances, I will then allow you to make application to

6 the Court to have the Court assign an attorney to represent

7 you, provided you fill out a financial affidavit, swear to its

8 contents as being complete and true, and agree to allow me to

9 question you under oath about your finances. If I find that

10 based on that information that you do qualify, I will then

11 assign the attorney. And as soon as I get the attorney

12 assigned, I will schedule a matter back here in court, and we

13 will then move forward on all of these issues of bail,

14 detention, discovery motions and any other motions.

15 THE DEFENDANT: The Government has already said

16 they're going to deny my bail, is that correct?

17 THE COURT: The Government has made a motion asking

18 that you be detained. Under the statute, they have a right to

19 do that. The substance of that motion is the Government says

20 you should not be released on bail because you do not comply

21 with terms and conditions of bail when they are imposed.

22 Because the Government alleges, as they have now done in this

23 second new indictment, while you were on bail in 08-CR-54, you

24 went out and committed more crimes. That's their allegations.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Right.


33

1 THE COURT: You are presumed innocent of those

2 charges, just as you are presumed innocent of the charges in

3 08-CR-54. But the Government has the right to make that

4 motion. In response to that motion, you have a right to a

5 detention hearing. And as I've indicated to you, a detention

6 hearing does involve legal issues and legal procedures. And

7 in my opinion, you would be at a disadvantage to go to that

8 hearing and represent yourself. That you would be better

9 served to have that hearing with an attorney representing you,

10 a person who is trained in the law, who is familiar and

11 experienced in these kinds of things, to represent you at that

12 hearing. The hearing will be conducted, and then it will be

13 for me to decide whether I should grant the Government's

14 motion or I should deny the Government's motion, and release

15 you on bail with terms and conditions, as I did in 08-CR-54.

16 THE DEFENDANT: I know. Last thing is the -- I mean,

17 obviously we're not going to be entertaining bail today, it

18 looks like.

19 THE COURT: Well, the Government's made the motion.

20 THE DEFENDANT: They made the motion, but it's

21 something that you're not going to entertain talking about

22 today?

23 THE COURT: No, because you don't have an attorney

24 here.

25 THE DEFENDANT: So what if I proceed -- proceed for


34

1 bail today?

2 THE COURT: No.

3 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

4 THE COURT: I'm not going to do anything further

5 today, because I am honoring your request to have time to talk

6 to your family --

7 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

8 THE COURT: -- about whether you are going to be able

9 to hire an attorney or not.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Right. But the whole purpose of

11 meeting with my family is for me to get out. I can't do that

12 until I get out.

13 THE COURT: But you told me that you would be

14 discussing with your family whether they are going to be able

15 to assist you in hiring an attorney.

16 THE DEFENDANT: Right, when I get out. I can't do

17 that sitting behind -- over there in Batavia, Judge.

18 THE COURT: Your family isn't even here.

19 THE DEFENDANT: Right, that would give me more time

20 to get on the phone and communicate with other counsel out

21 there. I can't do anything from sitting in a jail cell, being

22 on these ridiculous phones. You're paying $2 a minute for

23 these things.

24 THE COURT: All I can say, Mr. Buczek, is your family

25 was aware that you were going to be appearing here in court


35

1 today.

2 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

3 THE COURT: Your family had the opportunity to be

4 here, had the opportunity to confer with you today. Your

5 family chose to do otherwise. I can't be held responsible for

6 that.

7 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So we're not going to

8 entertain -- Could I go forward with the bail hearing right

9 now?

10 THE COURT: No.

11 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

12 THE COURT: Only because you do not have an attorney

13 here to represent you; and, the Government is entitled to have

14 three business days within which to prepare for such a

15 hearing, under the statute.

16 THE DEFENDANT: Okay, Judge. I was wondering if

17 the -- the last thing I had that I wanted to get into was the

18 ratification of commencement on the not guilty plea.

19 THE COURT: I don't know what that means,

20 ratification of commencement. I entered a plea of not guilty

21 on your behalf. The record will reflect that you objected to

22 me doing that.

23 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

24 THE COURT: But nevertheless, your plea imposed by

25 this Court is one of not guilty. And I've done that because
36

1 that's another way for me to effectuate your constitutional

2 right to presumption of innocence. You are presumed innocent

3 of these charges throughout this entire case, until such time

4 as your guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, based

5 on legally competent evidence received in a trial. So by my

6 entering with your plea of not guilty on your behalf, over

7 your objection, I have done nothing more than put in play, put

8 in force, in effect, your constitutional right of presumption

9 of innocence.

10 THE DEFENDANT: So if I'm presumed innocent, why am I

11 still locked up?

12 THE COURT: That's on the issue of bail.

13 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

14 THE COURT: The law also says even though a person is

15 presumed innocent of the crime within which they are charged,

16 if there are facts and circumstances as alleged and put forth

17 and proffered by the Government, that indicate that that

18 person might constitute a danger to the community or members

19 of the community, or that person might flee, or that person

20 might continue to commit acts of criminal nature, the law says

21 that person then can be detained until such time as the trial

22 on the charges are held, or is held, and a result reached.

23 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

24 MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, just so the Government's

25 clear, it's my understanding at this point that the defendant


37

1 is requesting time to find out if he wants an attorney, as

2 opposed to going forward pro se at this time. And that --

3 THE COURT: It's my understanding that Mr. Buczek

4 wants time in order to meet with his family to discuss whether

5 his family and Mr. Buczek are going to be able to retain an

6 attorney of his choice. And that if they are going to be able

7 to retain an attorney of his choice, then they need time to

8 actually hire the attorney. That if it should be decided

9 after Mr. Buczek has had an opportunity to confer with his

10 family, that they are not going to be able to hire an

11 attorney, because of financial circumstances, Mr. Buczek is

12 then going to have to make a decision if he is going to ask

13 the Court to assign an attorney to represent him, by filling

14 out a financial affidavit, swearing to its contents as being

15 complete and true, and agreeing to allow me to question him

16 under oath about his finances.

17 THE DEFENDANT: I still have that right to proceed

18 and represent myself, is that correct?

19 THE COURT: You do have that constitutional right.

20 THE DEFENDANT: Okay, Judge. And, you know, the

21 whole issue is that I was under the understanding that the 30

22 days was the longest I was going to be detained.

23 THE COURT: I extended the 30 days because Devens,

24 the Federal Medical Center, said they needed more time to

25 complete its evaluation of you, and I felt that that


38

1 evaluation was also in your benefit, and, therefore, I granted

2 that extension of time. Because, quite frankly, if they were

3 to find that you were not capable of assisting in your

4 defense, I didn't want you to be deprived of that opportunity

5 for such a finding to be made. I did not want you to have to

6 go forward to face these serious criminal charges, if the

7 professionals felt that you were not able to properly assist

8 in defending against those charges. So because I wanted to

9 make sure you were given every benefit that the Constitution

10 allows, and that you were not railroaded in any way, and that

11 you were not rushed to judgment in any way, I agreed to extend

12 the time so that the professionals could complete their work.

13 And as you find from the report, they did prepare a final

14 report and --

15 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

16 THE COURT: -- they made a finding.

17 THE DEFENDANT: Are we having a hearing on that, or

18 has that just been --

19 THE COURT: No, there's no need for a hearing because

20 they have found that you are competent and you can assist in

21 your defense.

22 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. I haven't even seen it yet. I

23 have not had an opportunity to review it or anything.

24 THE COURT: Well, that's the finding. The finding is

25 that you are competent to stand trial.


39

1 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So you did read the whole

2 report then?

3 THE COURT: I did.

4 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. I haven't yet.

5 THE COURT: I understand.

6 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

7 THE COURT: But I did read it. And that's why I

8 scheduled this matter for today.

9 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Okay. I just want to make a

10 record that it was my understanding after the 30 days is

11 complete, 30 business days --

12 THE COURT: I sent you notice and I sent you a copy

13 of my order extending the time.

14 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

15 THE COURT: So you got that.

16 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

17 THE COURT: Okay.

18 THE DEFENDANT: I did get that, but it was my

19 understanding that once this is complete, okay, it says in the

20 order that once this is complete, that the defendant can be

21 released.

22 THE COURT: Didn't say you would be released, because

23 we go back to the date of January 16th --

24 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

25 THE COURT: -- 2009, when the Government moved to


40

1 revoke your bail.

2 THE DEFENDANT: Correct.

3 THE COURT: On the basis, as the Government has

4 alleged, while on bail in 08-CR-54, you went out and committed

5 further crimes. And that's what is now reflected in the

6 indictment 09-CR-121. But I'm telling you, we're going to

7 have a hearing on that.

8 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

9 THE COURT: But I'm giving you the opportunity to be

10 represented by an attorney in having that hearing.

11 MR. BURGASSER: Also, just for the record, I believe

12 you noted that on that previous date on 08-CR-54, the

13 Government did make a bail motion to detain. Bail was -- I'm

14 sorry, to revoke.

15 THE COURT: To revoke.

16 MR. BURGASSER: And it was revoked at that time. But

17 he was allowed to renew it, which he's doing on today's date.

18 He's renewing your motion.

19 THE COURT: That's correct. I revoked the bail with

20 the -- reserving the right of the defendant, Mr. Buczek, to

21 readdress the issue of bail upon his return when he was

22 brought before the Court and had counsel to represent him.

23 THE DEFENDANT: Judge, I guess I am competent, I

24 didn't know that, you just told me. If I am competent --

25 THE COURT: Competent to understand the proceedings


41

1 and to assist in your defense.

2 THE DEFENDANT: Correct.

3 THE COURT: That's not to say that you are competent

4 to represent yourself --

5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

6 THE COURT: -- in these serious criminal matters.

7 THE DEFENDANT: So you believe that I can't represent

8 myself?

9 THE COURT: I didn't say that. I do have

10 reservations, I do have serious doubts about your representing

11 yourself on complex legal issues for which you have no

12 training. And once again, to me, it's equivalent to you

13 trying to walk through a mine field blindfolded.

14 THE DEFENDANT: Okay, Judge.

15 THE COURT: You would be better served, in my

16 opinion, to be represented by an attorney, a person trained in

17 the law, a person experienced in the law, in these kinds of

18 cases. But I'm not saying you cannot represent yourself.

19 Because the Constitution says you can represent yourself. Do

20 I think it's wise for someone to represent themselves? No.

21 Do I invoke the old adage of Mark Twain, "The person who

22 represents himself has a fool for a client."? Yes.

23 THE DEFENDANT: What about Thomas Jefferson?

24 THE COURT: What about Thomas Jefferson?

25 THE DEFENDANT: Thomas Jefferson said it's the right


42

1 of the people to represent themself.

2 THE COURT: I said that. The Constitution says you

3 can represent yourself. But does it mean it's a wise

4 decision? I don't think so. I'm not telling you, you can't

5 represent yourself. I'm merely trying to give you some sound

6 advice based on 40 years experience of practicing law, and

7 almost nine and a half years as a sitting judge, that in my

8 opinion, a person who is not trained in law, who is charged

9 with serious crimes, is running a very very serious risk in

10 trying to represent himself or herself. And that in doing so,

11 and if convicted, you, in this case, could end up facing

12 serious time in prison. And to me, that's a gamble that you

13 should not take. Especially when I'm telling you that I'm

14 willing to assign an attorney to represent you, if you can't

15 afford an attorney.

16 THE DEFENDANT: Which leaves me to, again, when is

17 our next date we're going to have the bail?

18 THE COURT: The next date will be as soon as I find

19 out from you that you've hired an attorney of your choice, as

20 the Constitution says you can do; or, if you tell me that you

21 cannot afford to hire an attorney and that you are asking me

22 to assign an attorney; or, you tell me that you're not going

23 to do either one of those things and you're going to insist on

24 representing yourself.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. And when would that date be


43

1 set for a bail hearing?

2 THE COURT: As soon as you tell me one of those three

3 things.

4 THE DEFENDANT: Well --

5 THE COURT: We're back to where you told me you

6 needed some time to meet your family. I said I was going to

7 give that you time.

8 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

9 THE COURT: And you told me your family's going to be

10 away for a week.

11 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

12 THE COURT: So we're not going to have the hearing

13 for at least a week, because I'm going to let you meet with

14 your family.

15 THE DEFENDANT: And the Government needs three days

16 to put a motion together to deny my bail?

17 THE COURT: They don't -- the Government is entitled

18 to three days to prepare for the hearing. They made the

19 motion.

20 MR. BURGASSER: We'll be ready to run the hearing in

21 three days, if he's representing himself. If he's going to

22 get an attorney, as the Court said, we have no problem going

23 along with the adjournment for him to discuss it with his

24 family and to make that final decision.

25 THE DEFENDANT: I can discuss it over the phone,


44

1 Judge.

2 THE COURT: All I'm saying is I'm going to give you

3 as much time as is reasonably necessary for you to confer with

4 your family. You told me they're away for a week.

5 THE DEFENDANT: Right. I was --

6 THE COURT: I'm willing to give you a week, I'll give

7 you ten days, I'll give you two weeks.

8 THE DEFENDANT: Right, but I understand that, but I

9 had no idea -- I had no intentions I was going to be detained

10 even longer than four months.

11 THE COURT: Well, you have been.

12 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah.

13 THE COURT: So that's a fact. Now the question is,

14 we're going forward.

15 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

16 THE COURT: Do you want a week, do you want ten days,

17 do you want two weeks in order to meet your family, discuss

18 with your family attorney representation, time within which to

19 hire an attorney, if that's what the decision is, and then

20 we'll bring you back with the attorney you've hired; or, do

21 you want a week or ten days or two weeks to meet with your

22 family and come to a decision that the financial circumstances

23 are such that you cannot hire an attorney, and that you're

24 asking the Court to assign an attorney, I will bring you back

25 and you will fill out the affidavit and I will examine you.
45

1 And I will tell you this right now, I will have an attorney

2 here present on that day. If I find that you qualify

3 financially, I will immediately assign that attorney to

4 represent you, so there will be no further delay.

5 THE DEFENDANT: I would like to entertain bail as

6 soon as possible.

7 THE COURT: I told you that I would be willing to

8 entertain bail as soon as I know what the attorney situation

9 is. Or, if you're going to insist, then I'll schedule the

10 bail hearing, if you're going to represent yourself. But I'm

11 telling you, if you're going to represent yourself in the bail

12 hearing, which involves legal issues and legal procedures,

13 you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage.

14 THE DEFENDANT: So when is the soonest we can have a

15 hearing on the bail?

16 THE COURT: Do you want a hearing on bail

17 representing yourself, or do you want a hearing on bail with

18 an attorney to represent you?

19 THE DEFENDANT: By myself, Judge.

20 THE COURT: All right.

21 (Brief interruption in proceedings.)

22 THE COURT: Where's Mr. Buczek being housed right

23 now?

24 THE MARSHAL: Batavia detention facility.

25 THE COURT: Okay. We can do it on Thursday, May 7th,


46

1 at 10:30. That's tomorrow.

2 THE DEFENDANT: They're going to come pick me up

3 tomorrow?

4 THE COURT: They'll take you back to Batavia today

5 and they'll bring you back tomorrow.

6 MR. BURGASSER: What time is that, Your Honor?

7 THE COURT: 10:30. Now, are you expressly waiving

8 your right to be represented by an attorney tomorrow, May 7th,

9 2009, for purposes of this detention hearing?

10 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

11 THE COURT: And you understand that I'm willing to

12 give you time within which to hire an attorney of your choice.

13 Do you understand that?

14 THE DEFENDANT: Well, it will give me time --

15 THE COURT: Do you understand that?

16 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge, I do.

17 THE COURT: And nevertheless, you are asking that you

18 want to go forward with the detention hearing tomorrow without

19 an attorney, you want to represent yourself. Is that correct?

20 THE DEFENDANT: That's correct, Judge.

21 THE COURT: All right. And you understand that I'm

22 willing to give you time to fill out a financial affidavit and

23 to ask the Court to assign an attorney to represent you, and I

24 will have that attorney, if I find you qualify to have an

25 attorney assigned, here to represent you in the bail hearing;


47

1 but you are waiving that as well?

2 THE DEFENDANT: You're saying you would have an

3 attorney sitting here tomorrow?

4 THE COURT: If you fill out a financial affidavit.

5 If you fill one out right now, and you agree to allow me to

6 question you under oath about your financial circumstances,

7 after you fill out that financial affidavit, and if I find

8 that you qualify financially to have an attorney assigned to

9 represent you, I will have an attorney here tomorrow morning

10 to represent you. And, that attorney will represent you

11 throughout the rest of the cases, that is, in 08-CR-54, and

12 09-CR-121. I will have that attorney here tomorrow. If you

13 qualify financially.

14 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Again, I'm going to go ahead

15 and proceed by myself tomorrow, and I'll make the necessary

16 phone calls from Batavia, and I'll be here tomorrow at 10:30.

17 THE COURT: So you're waiving your right to have an

18 attorney represent you tomorrow?

19 THE DEFENDANT: Well, I'm actually reserving all my

20 rights.

21 THE COURT: All right. Are you going to be here

22 ready to go forward tomorrow, or are you going to ask for an

23 adjournment because you want to get an attorney?

24 THE DEFENDANT: I need to get out as soon as

25 possible. I need to go ahead with the bail hearing and have


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1 you make a decision on that.

2 THE COURT: And you want to do that representing

3 yourself?

4 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

5 THE COURT: All right. I want to make sure that you

6 fully understand that I am trying to give you every

7 opportunity to be represented by an attorney in this detention

8 hearing. Be it an attorney that you hire of your own choice,

9 which is your constitutional right, or be it an attorney that

10 I will assign to represent you because of your financial

11 circumstances. That you are knowingly and voluntarily telling

12 me that you do not wish to delay this detention hearing for

13 purposes of your getting counsel or having counsel assigned.

14 And that instead, you are asking that that hearing be held

15 tomorrow, May 7, 2009 at 10:30 a.m., and that you're going to

16 represent yourself. Is that what you're telling me?

17 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Judge.

18 THE COURT: All right.

19 THE DEFENDANT: And again, getting back to this brand

20 new indictment that I received last night, it says count two,

21 there was a violation of my conditions of release.

22 THE COURT: That's right.

23 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Now, if we refer back to the

24 docket, back in October of 2008, I did do a rescission and

25 revoke of signatures of the condition of release back in


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1 October. I found out in late December, around Christmastime,

2 I found out it never even made the docket. So I had to refile

3 a second time. Remember it was on docket sheet, a rescission

4 and revoke of signature?

5 THE COURT: I remember that, but --

6 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

7 THE COURT: -- to this day I still don't understand

8 what you're talking about.

9 THE DEFENDANT: Because there's been no discovery met

10 in the very first indictment. And I --

11 THE COURT: I know it. There's been no discovery

12 because you had Mr. Altman representing you, and then

13 Mr. Altman was fired by you.

14 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

15 THE COURT: And Mr. Bruce had offered to give certain

16 discovery. And then you told me you and Mr. Bruce were in

17 plea negotiations. And then you told me that the plea

18 negotiations broke down.

19 THE DEFENDANT: Almost, yeah, they did break down.

20 But, you know, that's where I don't understand where count two

21 is coming from. There's no agreement.

22 THE COURT: That's a matter that will be subject to a

23 trial.

24 MR. BURGASSER: Your Honor, in reference to the new

25 date that's being set for tomorrow, could I just ask that the
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1 speedy trial time be excluded under 31 --

2 THE COURT: It is going to be excluded, only because

3 there's a motion pending by the Government pursuant to Title

4 18 of the United States Code Section 3161(h)(1)(D), and in the

5 interests of justice, because I'm trying to give the defendant

6 as much of the benefit as I can give him in order to

7 effectuate his constitutional right to be represented at all

8 stages of this case by an attorney, be it an attorney of his

9 choice or by assigned counsel. And, therefore, that time is

10 justifiably excluded and is hereby so excluded for purposes of

11 the Speedy Trial Act, pursuant to and in accordance with the

12 provisions contained in Title 18 of the United States Code

13 Section 3161(h)(7)(A) and Title 18 of the United States Code

14 Section 3161(h)(7)(B)(4).

15 THE DEFENDANT: Judge, it's my opinion under Title 28

16 U.S.C. Section 638(c), all orders must have an official seal

17 on that, and I believe you did receive my letter, or maybe the

18 clerk --

19 THE COURT: I did, and I denied that.

20 THE DEFENDANT: And I wasn't trying --

21 THE COURT: I understand. I'm not criticizing you.

22 THE DEFENDANT: I wasn't trying to start an argument.

23 THE COURT: I'm not criticizing you, Mr. Buczek, all

24 I said was that I do not agree with you that all orders have

25 to be in writing and have a seal on them.


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1 THE DEFENDANT: No, that's what it says in the books.

2 THE COURT: You can raise that on appeal to the

3 District Court.

4 THE DEFENDANT: The search warrant, the arrest

5 warrant, the raid at the house on January 16th, I mean, it

6 goes on and on and on.

7 THE COURT: I understand. Those are all subject to

8 motions to be made at a later date.

9 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

10 THE COURT: You've got to do it a step at a time in

11 an orderly procedure. The next step we're going to do is

12 tomorrow, May 7, 2009, when we're going to hold the detention

13 hearing on 08-CR-54 and 09-CR-121. And you told me you're

14 going to represent yourself and that you are waiving your

15 right to be represented by counsel, either counsel of your

16 choice or assigned counsel.

17 THE DEFENDANT: And public policy is denied in this

18 court then?

19 THE COURT: Pardon me?

20 THE DEFENDANT: Public policy?

21 THE COURT: Public policy what?

22 THE DEFENDANT: That was the whole conclusion of the

23 case for the very original case, public policy, post

24 settlement closure.

25 THE COURT: I don't understand that.


52

1 THE DEFENDANT: UCC 6 -- 3603?

2 THE COURT: The Uniform Commercial Code has nothing

3 to do with the Bail Reform Act.

4 THE DEFENDANT: All I want to know is if public

5 policy is going to be accepted in this court or it's not going

6 to be accepted, that's all, so I know what direction to go

7 down here.

8 THE COURT: What will be accepted is what the law

9 allows.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

11 THE COURT: We are going to proceed tomorrow under

12 the Bail Reform Act of 1984 as amended. Title 18 of the

13 United States Code Section 3161.

14 THE DEFENDANT: What about public policy?

15 THE COURT: Public policy is public policy. I mean,

16 there's public policy that covers all kinds of things. What

17 we're going to be operating under is the Constitution of the

18 United States and the Bail Reform Act of 1984 and the Federal

19 Rules of Criminal Procedure.

20 MR. BURGASSER: Thank you, Your Honor.

21 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you, Judge.

22 THE COURT: In the meantime then the defendant is

23 remanded to the custody of the U.S. Marshal Service until

24 further order of the Court.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.


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1 THE COURT: You're welcome.

3 (Court adjourned at 11:18 a.m.)

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1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION

3 I, Debra L. Potocki, RMR, RDR, CRR, Official Court

4 Reporter for the United States District Court for the District

5 of South Carolina, hereby certify that the foregoing is a true

6 and correct transcript of the electronically recorded above

7 proceedings, to the best of my ability.

10
S/Debra L. Potocki
11 _______________________________

12 Debra L. Potocki, RMR, RDR, CRR

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