TRANSCRIPT

Press Conference
Shangri-La Hotel, Jakarta
10:15am, 7 March 2002

RE: Defence relationship with Indonesia,

Terrorism…………………...e&oe

Senator Robert Hill:

Thanks for coming along. I spoke to a number of groups of journalists
yesterday who happened upon some of my meetings, but others who didn't
get the opportunity we said we would extend the opportunity if there was
anyone who wanted to ask me questions, particularly from the Indonesian
media. So I will just say a few introductory words and then give you that
chance.
I am here as the Australian Minister for Defence. I have only been in that
office a short period of time and this is my first visit to Jakarta as Defence
Minister. The purpose of the visit has been to meet with my various
counterparts in Jakarta in order that we can open a level of personal
communication to ensure that we properly understand each other's
perspective on a range of defence issues that affect our two countries.
It’s an opportunity for me to emphasis to Indonesian ministers my desire that
at the defence level that we work constructively and positively together. That
we ensure that each of our defence forces has open appropriate levels of
communication. That they understand the mission of each other and that they
are best able therefore to avoid any misunderstandings. It is also an
opportunity to say, from time to time, there may be a need for our defence
forces to work together in relation to some third party issue, whether that be a
terrorist type issue or otherwise. Towards that end to say that I think it is
desirable that we take steps to rebuild the defence relationship which has
suffered a bit in recent years.
Although, nevertheless, more has perhaps continued behind the scenes than
might have been apparent to all. We have continued to have Defence
Attaches in each other's countries. We have continued to provide courses at
our military institutions. We’ve continued to maintain communication between
our military forces in various ways. But we haven't had the sort of exercises
that we have had in the past. And that, in an ordered way, the rebuilding of
that relationship I think is in the interests of both our two countries, and I
wanted to communicate that to my counterparts.
And that’s basically what I have been doing. I have met with the Defence
Minister, with the Coordinating Minister, with the Foreign Minister, with the
Heads of the Defence Department, with the Chief of the Defence Forces in
Indonesia and some other interlocutors.
Any questions?
Journalist:
Senator, you talked about the step-by-step progression of relations. Where do
you see the relationship ending up and will that relationship be at the same
level as it has been in the past - before East Timor?
Senator Hill:
We haven't defined an end product because the challenges change as time
goes by. I'll mention a couple of areas. We want to ensure that we have an
effective communication to avoid misunderstandings. We want to have a
relationship that would enable us to deal together if there was some third
party issue if it was appropriate. There is a whole range of future possibilities
where a good defence relationship, where there is no misunderstandings,
where we appreciate each other's culture, is important and I want to rebuild
the relationship in that direction.
You would be aware, I think, that we have had two meetings at senior official's
level to try and put that program back in place. Both sides, I think, believe that
it was important that it not be simply rhetorical, that it was useful to talk about
the substance, and to get a better understanding of the aspirations of each
country and so forth. So that it becomes perhaps a more substantial
relationship than what it might have been in the past.
Journalist:
Would you see joint exercises as happened in the past, the pursuing of
information (inaudible)....
Senator Hill:
We have taken advantage of the memorandum of Understanding that was
agreed between our two countries recently on the issue of terrorism to look at
some practical implementation of the sort of spirit that I have just been talking
about. In the area of intelligence we have already commenced a dialogue
since that memorandum because, on the issue of terrorism, obviously there
will be instances where we can share information to our mutual advantage. So
agencies have started to explore how this might work in practice. In relation to
exercises, we’ve had some preliminary discussions as to whether we might
look to some maritime surveillance-type exercises as a start. They have
worked quite successfully in the past, and again it would be possible then to
translate the exercises into some practical work that our two navies might be
able to do together to mutual advantage some time in the future.
We’ve talked a bit about our counter-terrorism capability in Australia and
whether there’s lessons that Indonesia might like to learn from our experience
in that regard, particularly in such areas as command and control, how we
bring together the various agencies, police and defence and so forth. To
hopefully deliver the most effective response if a counter-terrorism capability
was ever required. We have talked a bit about training and we are in fact
offering the Indonesian armed forces some further places for their cadets in
our military institutions. We think that that’s a good investment for Australia in
terms of future defence leaders in this country understanding our society, and
we would like to think that that is a good investment for Indonesia as well. The
preliminary response to that has been very positive.
Journalist:
[Inaudible - concerning space port at Christmas Island.]
Senator Hill:
Space port? No we didn't discuss the space port in Christmas Island, although
I did read in the press that there was some speculation about what would be
the purpose of that space port. It’s a private sector investment in Australia, in
Christmas Island, to deliver satellites for communication purposes. It will be a
completely transparent and open process, there is no military involvement in it
at all. There is no other untoward objective at all.
Journalist:
[Inaudible]
Senator Hill:
I am sure if there was ever any concern by the Indonesian authorities they
would be perfectly welcome to visit Christmas Island and see what this
company is seeking to do.
Journalist:
[Inaudible - about Indonesian Parliament's concerns.]
Senator Hill:
Well as I said, there is no military aspect to this whatsoever. And it’s a
completely open book. As I said any Indonesian authority that wants to look at
what we are doing, well that is fine.
Australian Ambassador Ric Smith:
I would add that have had two delegations here in Jakarta in the last month to
go over all of these issues with the Indonesian authorities.
Senator Hill:
It is purely Australia trying to do business. At the moment we have to pay for
those satellites to be launched elsewhere in the world and we would like to be
in the business of satellite launching if that can help create wealth. There is
absolutely no military aspect at all. And, as I said, it is an open book, and
despite the visits that have been made the Indonesian authorities are
welcome at any time.
Journalist:
Has Australia set any goal posts on your resumption of full military
relationships with Indonesia? [Inaudible] ... with the US where it wanted to see
trials put in place for people who committed atrocities in East Timor. Are there
no similar goal posts for Australia?
Senator Hill:
There seems to be a presumption in the question that we don't have military
relations, which is not the case. We do have military relations. What we are
talking about is how we might further develop them in the future.
We haven't set strict prerequisites of the type that you are talking about. The
US is a bit different where you have a congressional role in terms of it
legislation. This is purely government to government in our instance. The
Indonesian authorities are well aware of our values and where we come from
in terms of our military culture. But we do think that between our two
neighbouring countries there is value for both of us if we build upon the
existing defence relationship in some practical and sensible ways and that is
what we’re looking to do.
Journalist:
Can I rephrase. Is there anything Indonesia could do that would speed up
these closer military ties with Australia?
Senator Hill:
There is nothing that Indonesia is not doing. I think both sides have said let's
progress this on a step-by-step basis and let's make sure we both understand
what we are seeking from that defence relationship. I think that is a sensible
way to go forward. I think perhaps in the past all too often we have set out on
paper what the relationship is without perhaps there being developed within
that a more substantial understanding of each other's aspirations and
capabilities. Now we are starting really at the other end and trying to build the
relationship step-by-step. The Memorandum of Understanding on Terrorism
gives us a good practical opportunity to do that in a way that can benefit both
countries.
Journalist:
Would any progress on human rights issues have any bearing on the speed
with which Australia reviews its defence relationship with Indonesia?
Senator Hill:
Well, as I said, neither side is rushing to rebuild the defence relationship for
the sake of rebuilding the defence relationship. We are seeking to build the
relationship to our mutual advantage, where we see benefit in it for us, and
where Indonesia sees benefit in it for them. On the issue of human rights, our
position is well known, on the basis of our culture and our political philosophy
and Indonesia is well aware of our views on that subject.
Journalist:
So there is no linkage between Indonesia's performance on human rights?
Senator Hill:
We haven't established a set of tests as such. We are pleased that the
administration and the leadership within this country would seem to be putting
a greater emphasis on the importance of human rights. We say that not just
as Australians but as part of a broader international community that claims,
under international conventions and so on, that claims that there are universal
human rights that we should all seek to respect.
Journalist:
There hasn't been an incident on the West Timor border for some time. Last
week in Bali officials from Indonesia and East Timor discussed greater
access, greater free flow across the border of trade and people. How long to
you envisage Australian troops being stationed along that border with West
Timor?
Senator Hill:
That is something we would obviously have to work on in conjunction with the
United Nations and what will be the new independent state of East Timor. I
think the UN, though it had a shorter mandate, its next phase overall, subject
to the views of the independent countries, is talking of a two year period. That
might turn out in practice to be a reasonable period of time for such a
presence. What we are doing is we are reducing our military presence as the
size of the total UN force reduces. So we have about 1500 defence force
people at the moment and by the end of June the intention is to reduce that to
about 1250 which will be when the total UN force is reduced down to 5000. So
we will continue to provide about a quarter. We would expect that gradual
reduction to continue, subject to the views, as I said, of the UN and East
Timor. I'd actual like to see some further reduction by the end of this calendar
year.
I should just take the opportunity to say I visited East Timor just before
Christmas and the Australia forces expressed to me the fact that they were
very pleased with the working relationship that they’ve established with the
Indonesian forces. They were having regular dialogues at a range of different
levels and they thought that was proving to be constructive and helpful in the
sort of trans-border issues that you’re talking about. I passed that message on
to my counterparts here because it is I think a good sign in terms of the
broader defence relationship, the fact that the forces in practice do seem to be
able to communicate effectively together, and work in what could be a tricky
situation from time to time effectively.
Journalist:
What is your view on how Indonesia is dealing with the alleged terrorists in
Indonesia?
Senator Hill:
We are obviously very committed to the war against terrorism. We believe that
one of the lessons of the 11th of September is the need to confront these
issues head on and to ensure that we are all operating on the best intelligence
and that, where we see a potential problem for the future, we confront it.
Therefore it is important that we all play our role in that regard because we
now know that these terrorist networks are international and if there is a weak
link then that can potentially become a threat to all of us. And we know from
more recent experience in South East Asia that our region is not excluded
from this international/national picture. So we’ve got to play our part, and we
accept that, and Indonesia has got to play its part. What senior ministers have
said to me during this visit is that that is accepted and they are willing to do
so, both in terms of Indonesia's welfare but also in the terms of the whole
region. And as you are probably aware there’s been several meetings within
ASEAN and ASEAN states to look at improving the intelligence dialogue. In
relation to the networks in this part of the world and under the Memorandum
of Understanding that we have entered into with Indonesia, we are starting to
develop a similar sort of response. So, I interpret that as a positive message
from my interlocutors, the Ministers I have been meeting with, that the issue is
taken seriously and that Indonesia accepts that it’s got to play its part to
ensure that we collectively combat what might one day be a threat to any one
of us. And I have been quite pleased with the response that I have received in
that regard.
Journalist:
So you don't see Indonesia as the weak link as some commentators have
suggested?
Senator Hill:
I do see the difficulty for authorities in this country with such a huge population
spread over an enormous geography, and also evolving political systems and
administration and the like. But what’s been put to me, which I accept, is what
I have just said to you; that Indonesia accepts its responsibility and is going to
play its part and I’m already seeing that starting to work in practice in the
relations with our country. We want to be supportive of Indonesia in that
regard. So we realize that the only effective way to tackle what could
potentially become a problem within this country, is through the Indonesian
authorities and we have offered whatever support we can to assist them in
that regard.
Journalist:
What do you think so far of the investigations [inaudible - about terrorists].
Senator Hill:
It has been pointed out to me that if you aspire to be a democracy you have
got to act in democratic ways. As an Australian I understand that. Having said
that, perhaps we as a democracy haven't always had the most effective tools
to tackle this particular problem because we now see it as we haven't seen it
in the past. We are moving to reform the Australian domestic laws in that
regard. We’re introducing legislation, I expect, next week in that regard. And
Indonesia is looking to legislative change itself to assist it in meeting its share
of the responsibility. But what’s been put to me, which I accept, is that in each
case where evidence has been put to authorities here about the involvement
of any individual, that the Government is seeking to investigate those
allegations in a thorough way and has a commitment to ensure that within the
capabilities of Indonesian law that there is a full and appropriate response. It
is true that there are certain powers in some other neighboring states that
Indonesia does not have, and it is up to Indonesia to determine whether it
wishes to extend its powers. But what I am told is that they are looking at
some legislative reform in this area.
Journalist:
Implicit in what you are saying Senator Hill is that more remains to be done in
Indonesia?
Senator Hill:
Well I'd say that more remains to be done in Australia. We are all on a
learning curve in this experience. We now know more than we knew six
months ago about these networks, not so much in terms of action they may
be taking now, but action that they may be take at some time in the future.
And I think that Indonesia and we therefore share the understanding that we
need to respond effectively and that is going to require, over time, for us all to
do more. That’s why we are both talking about the need for legislative change.
Journalist:
[Inaudible - on particulars of terrorism cooperation.]
Senator Hill:
I mentioned that we are looking to share intelligence where it can be useful to
each other and I think that is the most important building block of all. We are
prepared to talk to Indonesia about the capabilities that we have built up
within Australia to address a terrorist act if it was to occur. We have really
quite sophisticated response mechanisms now. There is a whole range of
different practical steps that we can take. Legislative reform is one that I have
already mentioned that both of us are looking to take. We are prepared to
provide legal advice, and a lot of this depends on the international legal
network that exists, and there is help that we can give in that regard. This
series of meetings that I have been having is just the first in what I hope will
be a series over the next few years and part of that will be to ensure that we
are both as able as possible to meet this threat if it was to eventuate.
Journalist:
[Inaudible]
Senator Hill:
I suppose the only other thing I would say in concluding is how pleased I have
been with the very warm and positive response I have received from all the
ministers. I have said that, from an Australian perspective, we want a good
positive relationship with Indonesia. It’s important to us. I am very pleased to
have noted that all ministers have said to me that it is important to Indonesia
as well. Thanks.
ENDS