Reality Check Radio, March 31

Interview with Tim Adams

RC: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to Reality Check

Radio for March 31, 2011. Hope everyone's having a great

evening. This is your host, R.C., and looking forward to a

great show tonight.

Foggy is producing again. Good evening, Foggy, if you're

there.

FOGGY: Good evening.

RC: Yeah, I got kicked out of chat again, Foggy. I don't

know. I'm just going to stay logged out. I'll let you run the

chat room, and I'll have to check in on it later.

My guest tonight is Tim Adams. Tim is the former election

clerk at the state of Hawaii who caused quite a stir about a

year ago, not quite a year ago, with some claims on whether or

not President Obama was actually born in Hawaii and what went on

at the elections office.

So let me – let's see. Just a couple ground rules here

tonight. We're going to try to keep the number of callers - I

hope Tim – Tim says he can stay around and take some calls, but

rather than have six or eight people on at one time, we're going

to try to limit it to about one caller at a time, ask a question

and maybe a follow-up question, and then we'll – you can either
hang up or we'll mute you, but if we get too many people on, it

gets a little bit hard to follow for both the host and the

listeners with the delay out there. But we do encourage you to

call. I'm not trying to discourage anyone to call. And the

number, as always, to call is (347)324-5546. Foggy will take

your question, and then we'll try to bring you on in the order

you called.

So I think that is it. Good evening, Tim Adams, and

welcome to the show.

MR. ADAMS: Good evening.

RC: Hey, thanks a lot for coming on, and while we tried to

do this I think either earlier this year or last year, I can't

remember, and I know you had – I think your father passed away,

and we certainly pass on our condolences about that.

MR. ADAMS: Well, thank you, yes, and it was right about

the time that they still had a gag order on me down here. So it

was quite a mess at the time.

RC: Okay, I didn't realize that. So, well, anyway, glad

we finally hooked up. I emailed Tim a few weeks ago, and he was

ready to come back on the show. Last week – I was going to have

Tim on last week, but we were supposed to have Kyrsten Sinema

from Arizona on, and she got busy. So but anyway, it all worked

out, and Tim's here tonight.

So tell us a little bit about Tim Adams first.

 MR. ADAMS: Well, I'm actually a fairly ordinary guy. I

was in Hawaii, attending the University of Hawaii, and I had

some friends – I had worked for the Department of Homeland

Security out of Pearl Harbor, and I had some friends who were in

the civil service down in Honolulu, and they asked me to work as

the senior elections clerk for the election cycle in 2008, and

needing the money, I thought it was a pretty good job and so I

took it. And things got interesting from there.

RC: Okay, so you – one question I had then is how you came

to be in Hawaii. So you were going to the University of Hawaii.

How was it living in Hawaii? I've always wondered what it's

like living in a so-called paradise like that, or a vacation

spot.

MR. ADAMS: Well, we have a joke over there. It's a kind

of a black bit of humor. It's called another day in paradise.

Hawaii is beautiful. Most of the people are very friendly, but

they have a lot of problems, and if you don't make six figures a

year, Hawaii is a very different place.

RC: I've heard the cost of living there is probably as

high as just about any place in the country, up there with New

York City and San Francisco, maybe even higher.

MR. ADAMS: It's probably in the top five.

RC: Did you – how did you happen to go to the University

of Hawaii? Did you just want to try that, or try living there?
 MR. ADAMS: I went over there on a visit and, being single,

I did what everybody always says they're going to do. I burned

my return ticket and decided to stay. I wound up spending about

eight years there. Like I said, I had a very good – I had a

pretty good time in Hawaii. It is a place where – it's a very

transient-type society, at least in Honolulu. They have people

from all over the Pacific Rim and Asia coming through there all

the time, people coming back and forth from the mainland all the

time, and so if someone's fairly industrious and likes to work,

you can get ahead fairly well.

RC: Okay, so you ended up working in 2008, you ended up

working in the elections office there in Honolulu, and I think

you mentioned – one question I had was at least I have some

uncertainty about exactly what your position was. It was senior

elections clerk, and you were a temporary or contract employee?

MR. ADAMS: I was a senior elections clerk. It's a

contracted year-to-year employee. We have performance reviews

and everything, just like every other type of administrative

employee. We're the people who manage the temporary hires and

all those kinds of people that they bring in on a seasonal basis

basically.

RC: Okay, now, I went back and listened to the original

interview you gave that kind of burst on the scene over a year

ago on that Political Cesspool show, and if we get time in a

second, I'll play a clip of that, but at least on that show, the

host seemed to be hinting that you were somehow chief election

clerk or running that office, but that wasn't the case then?

MR. ADAMS: Well, I kept trying to correct him. I was - I

wasn't a low-level data processor as some people tried to make

it out. I wasn't a full-time civil servant. Some friends of

mine still work there. I'm still in touch with them.

They worked there on a contractual basis, some of them for

eight or ten years before they ever became a full-time civil

service employee. It's a very competitive job. They pay well.

They have good benefits, and everybody wants one.

RC: Okay, but did you have any direct reports in that

position?

MR. ADAMS: Direct reports as in?

RC: As people working for you.

MR. ADAMS: Oh, I had an office and a secretary and a staff

of about 50 seasonal employees that worked under me that I

managed full time.

RC: All right, and who did you report to there?

MR. ADAMS: I reported – well, I reported to a lady who has

asked that her name not be used. She retired right after the

election. I really don't know if I can say her name or not,

because she's asked that no one mention her. She was about a

40-year civil service employee, a native Hawaiian lady.

 RC: Okay. Well, we won't ask you to break – if you

promised not to do that, we won't ask her to break that trust.

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, she retired right after the election

cycle, and she's asked that we don't mention who she is. She's

older and her health's not that good, and she just doesn't want

the aggravation.

RC: Well, I know a lot of the – I know the people in the

Department of Health in Hawaii probably sympathize with her,

because I know – I've actually spoken to a few of the folks

there and have read some of the news reports that they've been

harassed is probably the best way to put it.

What were your exact dates of employment then?

MR. ADAMS: Oh, I'd have to look at the piece of paper

here. I started in May and I worked through til – oh, no, I

would have started – I would have to dig through – I wish I had

gotten it out. I started in the spring and I worked until

September.

RC: Okay, you left in September then.

MR. ADAMS: I went back to school in September.

RC: One thing I've thought about that I thought was a

little bit odd though, is did you leave voluntarily? I mean, to

me, isn't that the real, really busy time for the elections

office there from maybe September through the general election?

 MR. ADAMS: No, I left voluntarily. They in fact asked me

to come back. But there was a lot of stuff going on,

mishandling the documents, documents coming up missing, and the

work environment got worse and worse, and school started back,

and I said, you know, I don't need the hassle of going to school

and putting up with this. And so I left.

RC: Okay. So you left voluntarily, but you were asked to

come back.

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, they asked me if I would go ahead and

come back to work, and I just told them the way that some of the

employees and stuff were being treated, I said, no, I wasn't

going to come back.

RC: Okay, why don't we play this clip, if you don't mind.

This is from – let me see if I can find it. I think this is

from around June of last year.

MR. ADAMS: If it's the Political Cesspool, it was June 6,

I believe, of last year.

RC: Okay, I'll play this, and then we'll come back. I

think that will lead into some other questions.

[Begin recorded audio.]

SPEAKER: We had no idea he was going to be here, but this

man was certainly at the middle of a political firestorm. His

name is Tim Adams, and he was the chief elections clerk, chief

election clerk, for the city and county of Honolulu, Hawaii,

during the 2008 presidential election. Why is that significant,

Bill?

SPEAKER: That is significant because that is where

questions were raised about the citizenship and origin of the

current President Barack Obama. Tell us what you know, Tim.

SPEAKER: You are in a unique position to have a little

information about the birth certificate issue?

MR. ADAMS: Yes, I was chief elections clerk for the city

and county of Honolulu on a temporary contract. I ran an office

that verified voter eligibility and had a staff of about 50

people.

When this question came up, I had access to all the usual

government databases that people had to verify identity: NCIS

[phonetic], Social Security, all these other things that we use

on average voters. There were two people higher than me in our

office who are under the city clerk of Honolulu, and the

question came up about the birth certificate and about President

Obama's birthplace. In our professional opinion, Barack Obama

was not born in the United States, and there is no Hawaii long

form birth certificate.

SPEAKER: Wow, that is an incredible exposé, right here on

the Political Cesspool. Now, that is an interview that is

worthy of – not that they're better than us, not that they're

more honest or professional, because they're not, but that is

something you would hope you would see on Fox News, Rush

Limbaugh. This should be shouted from the rooftops from the

biggest venues in the world, and yet here we are on the

Political Cesspool. I mean, this man was in a unique position

to confirm or disconfirm the whole birth certificate hysteria,

the chief elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu,

Hawaii, and he just told you a big part of the story.

Bill?

SPEAKER: Well, Tim, when this information – was it pretty

common knowledge within that office that there was no long form

birth certificate?

MR. ADAMS: It was openly admitted by everyone in the

office who was above me, at least my immediate supervisors, that

there is no documentation.

SPEAKER: For Obama being a naturalized American citizen,

born here with the birth certificate.

MR. ADAMS: Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

SPEAKER: And I guess the fact that you know that and

you're speaking out on it, you're probably no longer the chief

elections clerk of Honolulu.

MR. ADAMS: That's another interesting story. I was there

from the start of the election cycle when they hired us in the

spring until August of that year. We had a set of documents, 50

identity documents, stolen out of the office, and they were all
the voting records, the ballots, that people sent in who were

members of the U.S. Foreign Service in the Pacific Rim. Now,

why this is significant is these are ambassadors and people who

work in embassies and so on around the Pacific. They're mailing

in their absentee ballots for the presidential election.

Someone stole these, and since these are political appointee

positions, they would now know whether or not they voted for the

current president.

SPEAKER: Interesting. I see. So this is a way of finding

out who should remain in the diplomatic corps and who should not

or should remain in the foreign service or not, correct?

MR. ADAMS: That's what we believe, yes.

SPEAKER: So there's a little election fraud as well

involved in this whole scheme.

MR. ADAMS: Well, things got really, really [inaudible]

enrolled at the University of Hawaii. I went back to school and

let them fight it out among themselves. I am currently teaching

at Western Kentucky University in the graduate program.

[End recorded audio.]

RC: Okay, let me bring Tim and, Foggy, you're back in,

too.

Now, I noticed in that – you there, Tim?

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, I'm here. Terrible interview, I know.

RC: Okay, we'll talk about it.

 MR. ADAMS: Recording isn't that good.

FOGGY: Well, they were certainly excited to talk to you.

RC: Yeah, they seemed very excited. Now, that was at the

– make sure I get the name right. That was at the Council of

Conservative Citizens Conference down in Nashville last year, is

that correct?

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, last year, first week of June.

RC: Now, one thing, I noticed throughout the interview,

you even there referred to yourself as the chief elections

clerk, I believe, but that wasn't the correct title.

MR. ADAMS: I was trying to – yeah, it's senior elections

clerk.

RC: Okay.

MR. ADAMS: He said chief, and I guess I just repeated what

he said. I went back later and tried to correct him, but it all

got hashed out on the internet about two days later.

RC: Yeah, okay, now you mentioned in there, first of all,

you said it was common knowledge around the office, and you said

we knew that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. Who is we and how did

they know?

MR. ADAMS: Well, when the question about Barack Obama's

birth in Hawaii came up, our office – what we do is we verify

voter identification. We also verify the identity of the

candidates that go on the state ballot. And so the lady that I

report to, who we mentioned earlier, that was part of their

responsibility. They had to verify the identity of the people

who go on the state ballot. So when the questions came up, we

made inquiries, and the only thing we got back was, is, there

are no documents. Now, whether there should be or not is the

entire nother question.

FOGGY: I mean, how did he get on the ballot?

MR. ADAMS: That's something no one's ever been able to

answer, because the Democratic party didn't sign off on him.

RC: Well, we can get into that later. That's been bandied

MR. ADAMS: That gets into a whole nother mess.

RC: Well, that's been bandied around on the internet.

There were actually – a proper application was made that

certified that Obama met the requirements of Article II Section

1 of the constitution. I've seen it on the internet.

But now, you mentioned – let's talk about the database

access.

MR. ADAMS: Okay. That's something Glen Takahashi doesn't

like to talk about.

RC: Okay, I was going to bring his name up, because he –

yeah, tell us what databases you actually had access to there.

Did you – first of all, let me ask you this. Did you have
access to the birth records in the state of Hawaii from that

office?

MR. ADAMS: We did not have access to the Department of

Health birth records. The physical records we did not have, no.

RC: Well, then, what records did you have access?

MR. ADAMS: We had access to the police databases. We had

access to Social Security. We had access to – let's see. We

had access to the police. We had access to Social Security. We

had access to the voting records, and we had access to tax

records and things like that. Actually I found out later,

because I had never worked for the office prior to this

election, that we had access to several databases that our

workers actually weren't supposed to have access to.

RC: All right, how would someone be able to determine from

those databases that the certification of live birth that was

produced was inaccurate or wrong?

MR. ADAMS: Well, from those databases we couldn't, but

what happens is is that when they ask us to verify the identity

of the candidate that we have to go to the people who have the

records, the Department of Health, Kapiolani Hospital, Queens

Hospital, and the answer we got back from them was they don't

have the records.

 RC: But that's not unusual. I'm – I have to say I'm

incredulous that you would actually go to a hospital to verify a

birth, because we're talking about records –

MR. ADAMS: Well, it went to the hospital because there was

nothing at the Department of Health.

RC: And who at the Department of Health –

FOGGY: Now, did you personally contact the Department of

Health, or is this something you heard?

MR. ADAMS: Well, this was what my boss came and told me,

because –

FOGGY: Okay, and the other thing that – I mean, there was

another guy on the ballot. His name was Joe Biden. I don't

think he was born in Hawaii at all. So how could you check on

his birth by going to the Department of Health, Kapiolani,

Queens Hospital? And there must have been some people on the

state ballot in Hawaii that weren't actually born in Hawaii

either.

MR. ADAMS: That I couldn't tell you. It's on a case-by-

case basis. Vice President Biden, they probably had documents

from the national party and went from there.

RC: But didn't the Democratic party supply – first of all,

is there any requirement that you knew of that a candidate had

to provide a birth certificate to get on the ballot?

00:23:21
MR. ADAMS: Well, that's the whole legal question. There is no

– there is a requirement that you prove you're eligible to hold

office, but there is no requirement for an actual birth

certificate. So it's how do you identify who people are.

RC: Well, let me ask you something. Isn't it the job of

the secretary of state, actually controls ballot access in most

states? Wouldn't this have been the job of the secretary of

state of Hawaii, not the election office?

MR. ADAMS: Well, it was our job. It's what we did. In

some states the secretary of state would have done it directly

in their office, I suppose, but in Hawaii the identities are

verified through the Office of Elections.

RC: But you actually worked for the Honolulu office,

correct?

MR. ADAMS: It's the city and county of Honolulu is

actually just the name for the island of Oahu. So it's the

entire island, and it takes in the entire – it's the largest

single office in the state.

RC: So that office was directed by the secretary of state

to validate – let me finish – to validate Barack Obama, but you

didn't do anything for Joe Biden.

MR. ADAMS: I don't know about Joe Biden, because no one

was asking about Joe Biden. I'm sure they have some kind of

paperwork that they do to validate all the candidates. We would

do local candidates right there at Honolulu Hale in downtown

Honolulu. National candidates and so on, that I could not tell

you the exact procedure, because that's above my pay grade, as

President Obama says.

00:24:59

RC: But people there told you there was a problem.

MR. ADAMS: Well, people came and asked. So we had to

enquire, and the answer came back to us is that there is no,

there is no documents. Now that brings up a whole other host of

questions.

RC: Well, yes, it certainly does.

MR. ADAMS: Originally, people were talking about the

certification of live birth for President Obama. Well, if he

had a certification of live birth and was born in Hawaii in the

early 1960s, that would guarantee he was not born in Honolulu.

RC: What? I don't understand that.

MR. ADAMS: If he was born in hospital in Honolulu, which

is what his official autobiography claims, he would have a long

form birth certificate.

RC: How do you know he doesn't have a long form birth

certificate?

MR. ADAMS: Because they say that they don't have one.
 RC: The director of the Department of Health has issued a

statement that all the original records are on file. Was he

lying, and was his spokesperson lying?

MR. ADAMS: Oh, Ms. – I believe it was Fukino?

RC: Yeah, Dr. Fukino.

MR. ADAMS: No, she wasn't lying. What she saw was is

there is a notation in the state archives registering his birth,

but as Governor Abercrombie found out this past January when he

decided he would go and actually find the records, they're not

there.

RC: Now, Tim, that was retracted. He never said that.

That was a quote from Mike Evans, who has since recanted that

quote.

MR. ADAMS: Yes, he made that story and then recanted it,

but the fact is there is no document.

RC: But you were not in a position to know in your office,

and you don't – you won't name anyone. You conveniently can't

name who your supervisor was. You can't name anyone who is

they. It's just this –

MR. ADAMS: Well, there are several people who are there

who know her, but she has said not to use her name, and I'm

obligated not to.

As far as the story from the gentleman who was the reporter

with Governor Abercrombie back in January, Governor Abercrombie

said he would go and find the documentation, okay? He never

came out and said he found it. He just mysteriously kind of let

the whole thing die.

FOGGY: Actually, what he said, Tim, what he said is that

the attorney general of Hawaii told him that he could not

release the long form because it was a privacy violation, and he

couldn't do that without President Obama –

MR. ADAMS: Yes, and they were going – and that's when they

bring up the $100 faith and credit law. They would allow you to

buy a copy, except it wasn't a copy. It was a copy of a

certification of live birth, which would have been manufactured

for the purpose.

FOGGY: Right, but you do know –

MR. ADAMS: Gentlemen, we could argue the point forever,

but the fact is if there had been a document, he'd a brought it.

FOGGY: Tim?

MR. ADAMS: Yes?

FOGGY: You do know that nobody can get a long form birth

certificate in Hawaii anymore.

MR. ADAMS: I know they changed the law in 2009 which said

they will no longer issue long form birth certificates.

RC: No, it was changed in 2001, in 2001 when Hawaii went

all electronic.
 MR. ADAMS: 2001 was the issuance. Yes, 2001 was when they

started issuing the new documents. However, people who were

born before 2001 still got photocopies of their original birth

certificates up until they changed the law in 2009.

RC: No, I don't believe that's correct, Tim. I believe

after 2001 Hawaii has only issued COLBs.

00:29:02

MR. ADAMS: I was there and I know. The so-called

certification of live birth that's on the internet has a date of

2007. The only problem with that document is it wasn't issued

by the state of Hawaii, and it's not a certification of live

birth from Hawaii, and it has the wrong date. A document from

2007 proves nothing about 1961.

RC: Yes, it does. Tim, you're flat out wrong there,

because the document was printed in 2007, when it was ordered.

MR. ADAMS: The document was created in 2007, because you

take a certification of live birth from someone who was actually

born in Hawaii and put it up against it side by side and prove

they're not the same.

RC: Tim, that document has the state seal. It has the

signature.

MR. ADAMS: No, it does not.

RC: It has an embossed seal.

MR. ADAMS: It does not.

 RC: Tim, it has an embossed seal from the state of Hawaii.

FOGGY: There's pictures of it.

MR. ADAMS: No, it does not. I know what you've been

shown, Chris Mathews waving the thing around on TV. Well, as I

recall, Chris Mathews is now the man telling them to actually

find the birth certificate.

RC: I don't care about Chris Mathews. Chris Mathews says

more than he should say.

29:50

MR. ADAMS: There has never been documentation of President

Obama’s birth made public. You know who can get a copy of his

birth certificate? The President of the United States, because

he claims to have one in his possession. He could end the

entire controversy in 5 minutes.

30:09

RC: Tim, there is no, there is no controversy among

reasonable people.

MR. ADAMS: There is a controversy.

30:15

RC: Let’s move on. Now, you mentioned Glen Takahashi.

MR. ADAMS: Yes.

RC: Was he your supervisor?

MR. ADAMS: He was the supervisor in another section of

the, uh, department.

 RC: Ok, here’s, he was interviewed by Dave Weigel, and

here’s what he said, or exchanged an email. He said, Dave

Weigel said:

‘I talked with Glen Takahashi, the administrator of the

Honolulu City Clerk’s Office, and while he verified that Adams

worked there, he explained, gently making it clear he “didn’t

want to call anyone a liar”, but that “Adams never had access to

information about President Barack Obama. Our office does not

have access to birth records”, Takahashi said. “That is handled

by the Hawaiian Department of Health. Where he is getting that,

I don’t know.”

“Put it this way, Barack Obama wasn’t trying to register to

vote in Hawaii. He is, as far as I know, not a registered voter

here, so no one is looking that up.” Takahashi explained that

the senior elections clerk job that Adams held was a low-level

data-entry position dealing with voter registration and absentee

ballots. Adams was one of dozens of temporary employees who

staffed the pre-election rush. He contradicted Adams’ claims”’

MR. ADAMS: That’s already a lie.

RC: ‘He contradicted Adams’ claims that Obama’s lack of a

birth certificate was an “open secret” or that voters contacted

the office to ask about it. “To be honest, I fielded no

questions about that”, Takahashi said. "Why would anyone ask

us? We don’t have the records.”’

 So, is that statement correct?

MR. ADAMS: Uh, actually, there’s several errors there.

But, that’s okay.

RC: Well now, what are the errors?

MR. ADAMS: Um, I was not a low-level data-entry clerk,

one. I was not a temporary employee unless you count a

contractual employee to be temporary.

Um, Mr. Takahashi has been, you know, outed, by my own

testimony for things going on in his, uh, office, which are not

particularly good for him, so I doubt he has very much kind to

say about me. Um, I don’t hold him any hard feelings. He knows

what went on, he knows what people were asking, he was there.

He was aware of what was going on in the office, because, there

were several incidences with the mismanagement of registration

of political candidates and other things that go on. Not that

these are kind of big scandals, these are things that happen

when people are, you know, doing civil service jobs. But, uh,

he’s also a, uh member of the Democratic Party, so -

RC: Oh, so for that reason that makes him a liar, eh.

MR. ADAMS: No. It’s just, uh, it just means that, uh,

speaking out in Honolulu against Barack Obama will probably

guarantee you no longer having a job. Okay. Um, another lady

who I am still friends with and just talked with this same week

still works in Honolulu. Uh, a reporter from Fox News has been
out there snooping around. They asked her to make public

statements. She refused. It took her almost ten years to get

her job in the civil service, and she’s not going to speak

publicly because that means she longer has a job.

There is no such thing as free speech when you work for the

government. And very little free speech if you don’t.

33:45

RC: Well, you, you were certainly able to say what, what

you wanted to say. Now, now you, you did mention, I believe,

and we’ll get to your, the affidavit that you filed. First, I

think we’re able to move on to that. You filed, you filed an

affidavit that appeared in World Net Daily. First of all, was,

was this sworn under, under oath to any officer of the court?

Under penalty of perjury?

MR. ADAMS: Yes.

RC: To what court?

MR. ADAMS: Uh, I’d have to look at a copy of the darned

thing.

RC: Well, I’ve got it here. It’s, it’s signed by a notary

public, but you know I could get my, any, any document I can get

a notary public to sign. But, again, an affidavit is normally,

uh, a court document -

 MR. ADAMS: If you want to go over the affidavit, I can,

can tell you about that.

I had agreed, - I had been willing to do an affidavit last

June, but, um, I’m poor, so, uh, this past year, uh, some of the

folks with, at World Net Daily, or affiliated with World Net

Daily, they paid for the lawyer to draw the thing up. They, uh,

sent it up here and I had it, uh, notarized and signed, and

swore out the statement and sent it back. There’s no duplicity

going on there, that’s just the way it was done.

RC: So, you, did World Net Daily pay you for the

affidavit?

MR. ADAMS: No, they just paid - someone associated with

World Net Daily, I forget who, it might have been Mr. Corsi, um,

had their attorney draw it up. So they paid for the attorney

services to draw the document up.

Foggy: And did the attorney talk to you before he drew it

up?

MR. ADAMS: Yeah. They contacted me about two or three

times on the phone before they sent it up here and told me what

I had to do with it when it arrived. And then I faxed it down

back to them.

RC: But they, they wrote it for you then?

MR. ADAMS: They wrote out the document based on my

testimony. Yeah. Yep.

 RC: Now you say testimony but this, this is not sworn

testimony in any court. You were not under any penalty of

perjury.

MR. ADAMS: Oh, I was not sitting in the dock, no.

RC: Okay.

MR. ADAMS: But I’m still, as far as I understand, if you

swear to it in, uh, notarize it and send it off, you’re still

subject to, uh, charges of perjury.

RC: I don’t believe so because -

MR. ADAMS: If not perjury because that would be a court

proceeding -

RC: Right.

MR. ADAMS: But perhaps signing of a false statement or

issuance of a false document.

RC: Okay. Okay, one problem I have with the affidavit,

and again, you, you say senior officer, senior officers. We’ll

just read part of it here. “Senior officers in the county, city

and county of Honolulu Elections Division told me on multiple

occasions that Hawaii has no long-form, hospital-generated birth

certificate, that no hospital long-form, hospital-generated

birth certificate existed for Senator Obama in the Hawaii

Department of Health and there was no record that any such

document had, had ever been on file in the Hawaii Department of

Health or any other branch of the Department of the Hawaii

government.

Again, who are the senior officers? Can you name one name?

37:14

MR. ADAMS: (Sigh) Oh, I cannot out my friends, so.

RC: Okay, so we have on one hand, we have these unknown

senior officers that you’re quoting, but we have statements from

a Republican governor of Hawaii and a Republican Director of the

Department of Health who absolutely vouched for the authenticity

of the certificate of live birth that is -

MR. ADAMS: Um, no, they haven’t. If you're talking about

the piece of trash that is on the internet -

RC: I, I can read.

MR. ADAMS: - it's not from the state of Hawaii.

37:53

Foggy: No, no, no. Janice Okubo was quoted way back when

on Politifact, which is not the same as factcheck.org - it’s a

separate organization - and she said that, that, um, what, what

he showed, the, the Politifact, um, emailed her their copy of

the certification of live birth -

MR. ADAMS: Well.

Foggy: She was quoted as saying, she said that -

 MR. ADAMS: As I was saying, when they swear it out in

court, under, uh, the threat of perjury, I might tend to believe

it.

Foggy: - she said that it’s a valid Hawaii state birth

Certificate.

MR. ADAMS: It is not.

Foggy: Well -

MR. ADAMS: All I have to do is hold one up against it that

Foggy: Well, I would think that -

MR. ADAMS: - is actually issued by the state -

Foggy: Well, I would think it’s, it’s maintained by the

health department, not by the elections office. The elections

office, even if you ran the elections office, you’re not

qualified to rule on what is a valid Hawaii state birth

certificate and what is not.

And meanwhile, the spokesman for the Department of Health -

MR. ADAMS: I happen to be a trained document researcher,

by the way, sir -

Foggy: - is qualified to rule -

MR. ADAMS: - and have worked with the Hawaii Historical

Association and have worked in the state archives.

Foggy: So, you’re calling Janice Okubo a liar.

MR. ADAMS: So I do know what a document is.

 MR. ADAMS: Calling who?

Foggy: So you’re calling Janice Okubo a liar?

MR. ADAMS: Yes, if she’s saying that that document that is

sitting out there on the internet is an actual document because

we can prove it's not in about 30 seconds.

RC: How could you prove that, Tim?

MR. ADAMS: Because it's altered.

Foggy: Have you, have you seen the photographs of it? The

unaltered one? There’s nine photographs that were taken by

factcheck.org and they were very high resolution. They're like

2,350 pixels across. Have you seen those?

MR. ADAMS: Factcheck.org.

Foggy: Where the, where the certificate -

MR. ADAMS: I’ll tell you what I will do. I will double-

check and look at anything they have. I will also double-check

and look at a, at a known Hawaii Certification of Live Birth and

we will compare the two. And we will see.

39:52

RC: I’ve, I’ve seen a number of -

MR. ADAMS: Nothing I have seen so far would convince me

that anything that has been shown to the public is anything but

a simulacrum.
 Foggy: But have you looked at the factcheck photographs

where the, you know, the one where he’s holding it in his hand?

Have you seen that photograph?

MR. ADAMS: I’ve seen a whole bunch of photographs from

different groups. I do not know if I’ve seen the exact

photographs you’re talking about, and I’ll tell you what, I will

hunt -

Foggy: Okay, well go to, go to - educate yourself a little

bit. Go to factcheck.org, and then within factcheck.org search

for “born in the USA”, and when you find that one, you’ll see

photographs in the article and if you click on them, you'll get

the high resolution version, and it’s very clear in those

photographs that they’re holding an actual piece of paper, it’s

not like the one that wound up on, you know, the flat version

with the certificate number blacked out. They’re holding the

actual piece of paper. They took a picture of the raised seal

from about 3 inches away and it’s very easy to see that there’s

an actual raised seal, official seal. It’s very easy to see

that the registrar signed it.

If you go to the passport section of the U.S. State

Department it says that that is what a certified birth

certificate is. It has to have the raised seal and it has to

have the signature of the registrar and it has to have the date

that the birth certificate was filed. And the, and the
certification of live birth that’s in those photographs, very

high resolution photographs, has all three of those things. And

those are the three things that make a certified birth

certificate.

I just don’t - I mean that, all these things are very

public and meanwhile you come here and say that you worked for

the elections office, which isn’t really in charge of birth

certificates at all -

MR. ADAMS: Well, you know the governor of Hawaii’s not

either, but you seem to be willing to take their opinion.

Foggy: Well, I’m just saying, you obviously didn’t look at

birth certificates. No, I’m, I’m quoting from the U.S. State

Department website and looking at the actual photographs.

MR. ADAMS: The U.S. State Department does not create

documents for the state of Hawaii.

Foggy: Okay, well, I’m just saying, you know -

MR. ADAMS: The U.S. State Department is saying what is

acceptable to them but that, they do not create state documents.

So, I -

Foggy: Did you look at Joe Biden’s birth certificate?

MR. ADAMS: I haven't looked at Joe Biden’s birth

certificate.

Foggy: Did you look at any other birth certificate?

Weren’t there candidates for Congressmen?

 MR. ADAMS: We had local candidates who would bring in

birth certificates and passports and other documents to prove

their identity. That was normal.

RC: Tim, Dr. Fukino put his - is the head of the

department -

MR. ADAMS: Oh, was, yes.

RC: - yeah, is the head of the Department of Health. He

isn’t anymore because we've had a new administration take over

there.

MR. ADAMS: Yeah. [inaudible].

RC. Yeah. He put those folks, those folks - Janice Okubo,

Dr. Fukino and Republican Governor Laura Lingle all put their

entire reputations on the line.

MR. ADAMS: Linda.

RC: Linda Lingle, yeah, Linda Lingle.

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, I understand that but I will tell you

this, they did not go into the archive to see if the physical

documents were present.

Foggy: And neither did you.

MR. ADAMS: (Sigh, laugh) No I didn’t, but you know what?

When we called up they said they didn’t have them.

RC: Who is “they”?

MR. ADAMS: Governor Abercrombie went looking for

documents.
 RC: No, no, you said when we -

MR. ADAMS: He found a registration, he found an archive

notation. He did not find a birth certificate.

RC: You don’t know that, Tim.

MR. ADAMS: You’ll never see one from him.

RC: All right, let’s -

MR. ADAMS: I was in contact with Governor Abercrombie’s

office and I told him point blank, because he said, he made the

statement that he was worried that if they brought out the birth

certificate, it would still not convince people. I contacted

his office repeatedly. I told him, point-blank, in writing,

that if he needed help convincing people that he had the real

birth certificate I would be happy to do so.

RC: What, you volunteered to go to Hawaii and find the

birth certificate for them? Is that what you’re saying?

MR. ADAMS: No, I said that if he came - Governor

Abercrombie said that he was afraid that even if they managed to

bring out the original birth certificate or a copy of the

original birth certificate, there would still be people who

would say, “Oh, it’s a forgery, oh, it’s a fake, whatever”. I

told him that if he wanted help convincing people it was real, I

would be happy to do so. If he actually had the birth

certificate.

I got nothing back from the man.

 RC: Well, I’m not, I’m not surprised. Why would he pick

you out of thousands of people? Why wouldn’t he pick some

document expert? Why would it need to be done in the first

place? The state has issued a document.

MR. ADAMS: Well, because there's been a question of the

validity of Barack Obama to hold the office of the President of

the United States. There was a question whether he was a valid

candidate before he ran for office. There was a question during

the election and there was a question after he was elected.

It’s not went away. It’s been four years. Why not settle the

issue? It would take about five minutes on the part of the

President of the United States to simply kill the entire

controversy. He has refused to do so.

RC: Tim, now one thing, one thing you said – now this may

have been in the affidavit - you said that there were closed

door meetings and that there were political discussions about

Fukino and Okubo’s statements that were issued at the - you

mentioned that in the affidavit. I think you said:

“During the course of my employment, I came to understand

that for political reasons, various officials in the government

of Hawaii, including Governor Linda Lingle and various officials

of the Hawaii DoH” uh, “were making representations that Senator

Obama was born in Hawaii even though government official in

Hawaii could find an official long-form birth certificate for

Senator Obama that had been issued by a Hawaiian hospital.”

Now, as far as I know -

MR. ADAMS: That’s the same thing we have going on now;

there is no document; there are no documents. There are no

records for his mother being a patient at the hospital -

RC: Tim, those, that, hospitals don’t keep - how do you

know? I have a story from a Buffalo newspaper of a lady who was

Obama’s teacher, who talked to a physician at the hospital the

night of his birth.

MR. ADAMS: Who’s the physician?

RC: The physician -

MR. ADAMS: Because no one’s ever been named. Talk about

me being unable to give names. I’d like to actually see someone

who's come forward as a witness to the birth of Barack Obama.

No one has - no one now living has come forward and said that

they witnessed Barack Obama’s birth.

RC: Barbra Nelson is the school teacher who knew the

Obamas and knew Doctor West.

MR. ADAMS: But she was not an eyewitness, now was she?

RC: Well no, but we have -

MR. ADAMS: Well, you say that my testimony’s no good, why

should I believe her?

RC: Because you won’t cite any names.

 Foggy: RC? Dr. Conspiracy is waiting.

RC: Okay, hey, Doc C, welcome to the show.

Doc C: Hi, RC. How’re ya doing?

RC: Oh, good evening, doing okay. Say hi to Tim Adams.

We’re having a good time.

47:43

MR. ADAMS: Doc Conspiracy. Like the name.

Doc C: Oh, uh, thanks, uh you may not know my blog but -

MR. ADAMS: By the way, I never claimed there’s some big

conspiracy here. I believe it’s politics as usual.

Doc. C: Yeah. I’ve had a lot of opportunity to blog about

you so I’m glad to get to speak with you in person.

MR. ADAMS: I don’t believe there’s some big conspiracy

about Barack Obama and I don’t think this should be such a great

issue. I just wish the President would kill it if it’s in his

power to do so.

Doc. C: Well, let me drill down on that comment about the

conspiracy. I mean, if you go to the State Department of Health

website, they have an “Obama, FAQ page”, and it has a link to

the document, which, I’m looking at the State website right now.

And it says, this is a statement by Dr. Fukino:

“Therefore I, as the Director of Health for the state of

Hawaii, along with the registrar of vital statistics, who has

statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital

records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State

Department of Health has Senator Obama’s original birth

certificate on record.“

MR. ADAMS: Yep, that would be the archival notation that

Governor Abercrombie found.

Doc C: If that’s – no, I have seen that the Department of

Health has the original certificate on record, not -

MR. ADAMS: On record. She did not say “I found”. She did

not say “I have seen the certificate”. She saw a record stating

it should be in the archive. Like I’m saying -

Doc C: Verified.

MR. ADAMS: - if the records not there, where is it?

Doc C: She said she verified that the certificate was on

record.

MR. ADAMS: But it’s not.

Doc C: I mean, you have really twist some words to make

that not be really obviously clear.

MR. ADAMS: No, this is the same government that gave us

Bill Clinton and what the meaning of “is” is. The fact is

there’s no document. Now why there’s no document, there could

be several different reasons. But there is not one.

Doc C: Well, then Dr. Fukino further said, she said I, Dr.

Chiyome Fukino – records at the Hawaii Department of health -

have seen the original vital records maintained at the Hawaii

Department of Health.

MR. ADAMS: She never said that.

Doc C: It’s all on the state website,

http:Hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09 –

MR. ADAMS: Well, if there’s a statement on the state of

Hawaii website saying she has seen the original document,

perhaps she can tell Governor Abercrombie where it is.

Doc C: Well, that, she’s not in office anymore, but I

think the thing that is really misunderstood is about Governor

Abercrombie. I mean, when, when Governor Abercrombie said he

was going to start looking for records, he knew immediately,

because of the law, that he couldn’t release the birth

certificate. That was never, never something he could do.

MR. ADAMS: It’s not a matter of releasing the birth

certificate. He was at least honest enough never to claim that

he found it.

Doc C: Well, well, he wasn’t authorized to look at it any

more than you or I are for the tangible interest.

What he was doing was trying -

MR. ADAMS: We do have one person who is, though.

Doc C: - he was trying to find some other record in the

state that he could release, because there was no birth

certificate that could be released because of the law. And what

he did was, he went through the state archives and found some

record where it was noted that President Obama had presented a

birth certificate, to get, maybe when he got his drivers’

license or something. But -

MR. ADAMS: Yeah. He found an archival notation of the

birth and then he found the handwritten notation somewhere in

the archival records.

But the fact is, we’ve had one person all along who could

simply end this. Who supposedly has the document in his

position, and that’s President Obama.

Doc C: Well, you know Tim, in 2008 -

MR. ADAMS: You know President Obama’s opponent was

required to show his documentation to the Senate.

Doc C: Actually, that’s just a rumor that never happened.

MR. ADAMS: Uh, they didn’t hold hearings in the Senate to

validate, uh, Senator McCain’s eligibility to hold office?

Doc C: There was a Senate resolution and they took - a

couple of people testified -

MR. ADAMS: So Barack Obama’s not good enough to verify his

own eligibility for office?

Doc C: Barack Obama was the sponsor of the bill to make

McCain eligible. But the point - that sent us off track, I mean

- I wanted to say briefly, the Abercrombie thing, you know he

didn’t have access to birth records and therefore he was looking

for something else.

MR. ADAMS: I, I remember one thing about the Abercrombie

fiasco, if that’s what you want to call it, is that some Fox

News commentators were on during their typical gaggle of talking

one night when all this was going on back in January, and one of

them said the worst thing that can happen is he doesn’t produce

the birth certificate.

53:03

Doc C: Yeah, but that's a misunderstanding – because he

could never have produced a birth certificate.

RC: Tim, let me –

MR. ADAMS: But the point about the birth certificate is

not the birth certificate, and the point about this entire

controversy isn't even Barack Obama, though there's the racist

side, and I openly call them racists, who oppose Barack Obama

because of his race, but the controversy surrounding Barack

Obama's birth has nothing to do with Barack Obama. It has

everything to do with a government who thinks they don't have to

answer to the people of the United States.

Doc C: You know, back in 2008, there were websites that

were saying that Barack Obama's middle name was Hussein and –
 MR. ADAMS: There's always been that racist element, and

the man will always have to deal with that, I suppose, as long

as he's in office.

Doc C: But at that time, people were saying if you'll just

release the birth certificate, if you'll just release a birth

certificate, this will all go away, and so he gets a standard

birth certificate from Hawaii – and you may say it's not, but

that is the form; there's dozens of ones just like it on the

internet where people have said here's my birth certificate from

Hawaii. I mean, it isn't the hospital form, but it is the

current standard, and I'm sure if you worked in the elections

department that –

MR. ADAMS: I've seen quite a few birth certificates from

Honolulu.

Doc C: You've seen a whole lot of birth certificates.

MR. ADAMS: And the thing I've seen on the internet has not

– does not appear to be the one that they're showing on the

internet, though I'm going to have to check out this one that he

was talking about over at factcheck.org, see if they have a

different one.

Doc C: But the point was that he released the certificate

and did it all go away? It didn't.

MR. ADAMS: Did he? Because I keep hearing that neither

the state of Hawaii nor Barack Obama's administration, either

one will claim any of the documents that's out here floating

around in public. Have they actually vetted that either one of

these documents or whichever document you want to talk about is

actually from President Obama?

RC: Yes, Tim, if you go back and read –

Doc C: Well, it's from Obama, because it's on his own

website.

RC: Right. Let me jump in here just a minute. I want to

clarify a couple things.

MR. ADAMS: That's where you get into there's so much

obfuscation going on it's almost impossible to keep track.

RC: Tim, there's not obfuscation. I don't know where

you're getting that.

First of all, let me correct a couple misstatements you've

made, and I'll get back here. Let's go back to McCain. McCain

didn't have to produce anything. There was a controversy about

John McCain, because the controversy about the meaning of

natural born citizen has never been about someone born in the

U.S. like Barack Obama was. It has been about people –

MR. ADAMS: There is no magic soil. I understand that.

RC: Right, it has been about people who are born to U.S.

citizens abroad, as John McCain was. That came up with George

Romney back in the 60s. It has come up a few times, and there

is among legal scholars some controversy about that. When this

came up in 2008, Barack Obama – and I believe Hillary Clinton

may have been in on this – sponsored a nonbinding resolution to

state that the Senate's opinion was that John McCain was

eligible. John McCain never produced a birth certificate for

that. There were no hearings. It was just simply a let's help

out our colleague, let's say that we don't think that this is a

controversy. It was a nonbinding resolution.

John McCain – there was a birth certificate, and Doc C has

a copy of this on his website. There was a copy of a birth

certificate that is almost certainly a forgery, and Doc C's done

some good analysis on that, produced in one of the eligibility

lawsuits against John McCain.

Now John McCain supposedly did show a birth certificate to

a few reporters, but they weren't allowed to copy it, and no one

has ever seen John McCain's real birth certificate. So the only

presidential candidate in my lifetime who ever produced a valid

birth certificate that I could look at in any way has been

Barack Obama, period, and I've been around for about 11

presidents.

MR. ADAMS: Okay.

So let's get back to how we – how do we prevent this from

ever reoccurring, because that's been my interest since this

whole thing started, is how do we get this to where it never

happens again.
 RC: I think we just don't elect another black president,

and this will never be a problem.

MR. ADAMS: That's not exactly what we were wanting to go

after.

RC: Tim, there are – this is – there are conspiracy

theories about everything, but this one is just plain stupid.

MR. ADAMS: Well, there's different states trying

legislative solutions, and what I was really hoping for, when

all this got kicked off, and I've mentioned it before – I would

like to see – I'm not sure if it would have to be the Supreme

Court of the United States or the Congress or both, I would like

to see them come up with a definition of who is qualified to run

for office, executive office, in the United States.

FOGGY: Well, there has been a court decision in Indiana

that said that if he was born in the United States that it

doesn't matter what the citizenship of his parents is, but

there's something else you've been saying two or three times

already this evening, which is that he could end this whole

controversy if he'd release a long form birth certificate, and I

wonder why he would want to end this controversy. You know, the

only people who believe that he's not a natural born citizen are

people who would never vote for him anyway. The only people who

believe that he was not born in Hawaii is a very small subset of

the Republican party, and the plain truth is that this

controversy is ripping the Republican party apart. I don't know

if you actually pay attention to any of the birther blogs like

we do, but we follow the controversy all over the place, and

every time, for example, yesterday Michele Bachmann, the very

conservative congresswoman from Minnesota, said she thought that

the eligibility controversy was the least important issue in

America today. Now, the birthers are going to go crazy, having

read that -

MR. ADAMS: Well, she's probably correct about that.

Foggy: - there are going to be open letters to her. Yeah,

but the birthers don't believe that, because the birthers

believe that it's the single most important issue in America

today, and you're going to get people writing open letters to

Michele Bachmann, just the same way they've been writing open

letters to Bill O'Reilly, and open letters to Sarah Palin.

MR. ADAMS: I've had some of them jump on me, because I'm

not sufficiently er, what do you call it? I'm trying to subvert

the constitution or something by saying we can decide who we

want to have to run for president.

Foggy: I've seen people threatening Sarah Palin with

criminal prosecution because she won't jump on the birther

issue, so it really is ripping the Republican party apart and

I'm wondering why President Obama would care if the Republican

party gets ripped apart by these people.

 MR. ADAMS: Well, don't you think that's rather mercenary

of him? I mean, you can say Republican Party, Democratic Party,

these are still people of the United States, and to rip apart -

you know we're in a very divided country right now anyway, for a

whole host of reasons; demographic change, economic problems,

you know, social inequities. There's all kinds of things going

on. I think the reason that this controversy doesn't die, quite

frankly, is that it's politics as usual. Both sides are making

hay off this issue. It will not go away, unless somebody like

President Obama steps up and ends it.

1.01.31: R.C: Now Tim, you want Obama to do that, I just -

MR. ADAMS: I do.

R.C: - and I think you agreed with me that President Obama

is the only major candidate, or candidate in either major party

who displayed a valid birth certificate before he was elected –

I know you don't think that, I know you don't think it was valid

MR. ADAMS: Well, we can talk about that, but I will go

with you this far. President Obama has stated that he has

his birth certificate in his possession. He could end this. I

really wish he would. I wish he would. I know it's asking a lot

of the man -

Foggy: Are you talking about what he wrote in the book

where he said that he had found one?

 MR. ADAMS: Yeah, where he says, where he found an original

copy of his birth certificate.

Foggy: That book was written almost 20 years ago, that's

not saying he still has it. You know I - I've had birth

certificates and lost them after moving and if you realize that

he's moved from -

MR. ADAMS: That would be unfortunate.

R.C: Yeah.

Foggy: You know, for who? Certainly not, certainly not for

him, he's President of the United States.

MR. ADAMS: This also brings up another point. He was

given permission to run for office.

Foggy: None of this controversy is ever going to make him

not be President of the United States, so I don't know who

that's unfortunate for.

MR. ADAMS: That gets into the extremist fantasies that

somehow they're going to frog-march Barack Obama out of the

White House - it's never going to happen. That's why these

people with, that's why these people with different lawsuits and

so on that on there, they try to contact me, and I just let them

know that I don't believe in that. I'm looking at legislation -

legislative solutions. I'm looking at getting the Congress or

the Supreme Court to act to give us a definition on Article II,

and I would actually like to see it much more inclusive, because

I have friends who were born while their parents were serving in

the military overseas, and there's that question, are they

eligible to run for vice president or president of the United

States? Because they weren't born there and they held a dual

citizenship at birth -

1.03.34

Foggy: Let me ask you this. Do you - have you been

following this controversy close enough to understand that even

if he did produce a long form birth certificate that said he was

born in Hawaii, that that wouldn't end the controversy at all,

as far as the birthers are concerned? They would still say -

they would say that he lost his citizenship in Indonesia,

there's a whole school of thought that he was adopted in

Indonesia. They would - they would say that his father - his

father wasn't an American citizen. I mean do you - do you

know about those things?

MR. ADAMS: Yes. I understand the idea that his father was

a British subject.

Foggy: Right.

MR. ADAMS: They're bringing that back up now because of

Donald Trump, because his mother was Scottish. At the time of

his birth she was a citizen of Britain.

 Foggy: Well, we've looked at that and we found out that

she was nat - a naturalized citizen when - by the time he was

born, but I'm just saying, that even -

1.04.20

MR. ADAMS: Even so, I mean, they bring these things

up. Barack Obama was given permission to run for office.

Barack Obama won the election. He is the President of the

United States. The more extremist people out there try to - you

know - bring up this issue that he's not legitimately President.

It doesn't hold water. You can't say, once you give the man

permission to run, and he wins the election, that he's not

President. It's not going to happen.

RC: Good, we all agree. We all agree on that, and, and

Tim, you say Barack Obama could end all this. Let's do a little

thought experiment here. Let's say tomorrow Barack Obama says

'Oh, guess what? You know, I went back to Chicago and looked up

in the attic, and by golly, you'll never know what I found.

Here it is, the long form copy that - you know, that grandma -

MR. ADAMS: The extremists will wail and gnash their teeth,

but anybody with any amount of - you know - civility in public

discourse, will go with it.

R.C: I disa - there's where we disagree, Tim, because I

can tell you exactly what would happen. You have a good portion

- now Doc C can back this up - because he has a lot of birthers

that blog over at - that comment over at his blog. More than

half the birthers believe that it doesn't matter where Barack

Obama was born, because they are De Vattelists who believe you

have to have two citizen parents, so that would continue right

on. Do you agree, Doc C?

Doc C: Well, it would surely. You know, there are a

handful of birthers who would go home. You know, Phil Berg for

example, has never bought into the two parent citizen theories,

you know. He and his followers might go home. Certainly the

Apuzzos, and Orly Taitz and all their followers, and Donofrio

followers would say it doesn't matter where he was born: that he

can't be - he can't be President.

MR. ADAMS: It's because they say you have to have two

citizen parents at birth in order - no divided loyalty or

something like that.

R.C: Right, and no dual citizenship. And we even had - we

even had several states propose birther bills that said you

couldn't be a dual citizen. Now, once these saw the light of

day, a lot - they, they all died, but, I mean we had legislators

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, they're trying to - they're trying to

push the law to places it can't go.

R.C: Absolutely, but they have supporters -

 MR. ADAMS: That's why I'm saying what we need is

a national - we need a national definition on who's eligible to

hold executive office in the United States.

1.07.13:

R.C: Well, I think we've one - accepted -

Doc C: There have been several articles, that make that

same argument, that, you know, there is - there is a question -

MR. ADAMS: Well, let's just define it. Let's just say

that if someone is born a United States citizen, let's not worry

about their parentage and all the rest, if they're born a U.S.

citizen they're born a U.S. citizen, and say they're eligible to

run for President of the United States, Vice President of the

United States. Why can't we get Congress or somebody to simply

do that?

Doc C: The optimal way to solve that question is to have a

Constitutional Amendment to define it, or lacking that, we're

probably talking about a Supreme Court decision, probably coming

out of an election, some candidate - some legitimate candidate,

would challenge somebody else -

MR. ADAMS: I'm wondering - I'm wondering, since we've had

so much problem with this issue already - you know - could not

our lawmakers get together and simply do this?

 Doc C: Well, yeah, I think most people would say that the

Congress really doesn't have the power to change what the

Constitution means.

MR. ADAMS: I'm not saying they're trying to - I know the

Supreme Court interprets the Constitution - but could the, could

the Congress not make a, make a resolution, and then send it

over to the Supreme Court, and ask them for a ruling?

1.08.53

Foggy: Say, Tim?

MR. ADAMS: Yes.

Foggy: Let's get - let's get back to when you were

actually still there working in the Elections Office.

MR. ADAMS: Okay.

Foggy: - and you know, we -

R.C: Foggy, let me - let me follow up, just a minute, so

we can put closure on the point Tim made, because believe it or

not I'm actually going to sort of agree with Tim here. I think

yes, I think Congress probably could -

MR. ADAMS: My interest in the whole thing is keeping this

from ever happening again.

R.C: Yeah, well, as I said, I think as soon as Barack

Obama's out of office, and we don't have a person who's a

different color, or who's from a funny state like Hawaii, I

think it'll go away because it's never been there before, but I

think Congress could pass -

MR. ADAMS: Well, hopefully he's not going to be the last

one.

R.C: Well, I hope not too. I'm glad I lived long enough to

see it happen, and I'm very proud of Mr. Obama. But, I think

Congress could pass a law that says - you know - that defines

natural born citizen as mentioned in Article II, is this, this,

this. It could be done. Now that law may be challenged and

that might end it.

MR. ADAMS: Well, then it would go to the Supreme Court,

and then they would -

R.C: Yeah, that is one way it would go to the Supreme

Court. Now it might go to the Supreme Court in the 2012

election cycle if a candidate filed some sort of challenge. Now

the courts have all - you know - none of the courts have seen

fit to get involved in this so far, but I -

Foggy: R.C?

R.C: Yeah, go ahead.

Foggy: I don't think it's necessary myself. I mean as

long as - as far as the two parent citizen thing, you would

think if that was the law, then possibly Hillary Clinton would

have brought it up when she was desperate to beat Obama. You

would think that John McCain might have brought it up, or Sarah
Palin, when they were desperate to beat Obama and were losing.

You would think that the entire time that Obama ran for

President, and got elected President, and right up to the nomin

- the inauguration, we had an Attorney General that was a

Republican appointee of George Bush, and you would think if the

Attorney General thought that was law, he might have mentioned

it, somewhere along the line. And you know, if you talk to

ordinary people who aren't caught up in this controversy, and

try to say both your parents must be citizens in order for you

to be a - to run for President -

MR. ADAMS: Well, it's not just that.

Foggy: - anybody would look at you and just say 'That's

nonsense', you know, that is just utter nonsense, and the truth

is, nobody thought of the argument until Barack Obama was

elected President.

1.11.34

MR. ADAMS: Not for the last 100 years anyway.

Foggy: We've traced down, and the history of the thing is,

nobody said - nobody said two - both your parents must be

citizens, until after he was elected.

But in any event, I'd like to get back to Tim's actual

story, because it does seem - it seems unusual that they look

into the qualifications of candidates, they're looking into

whether or not the candidates are eligible to run for the office
that they're running for; they send off to Queen's Hospital and

Kapiolani Hospital and the Department of Health to get documents

and all of the - all of those places, instead of like for

example Kapiolani, instead of saying, 'Well, federal Law

prohibits us from disclosing any of the records we have on

people', they instead say something -

MR. ADAMS: They don't have to disclose them - they don't

have to disclose records, they just have to verify that they are

in possession of the records.

Foggy: Well, in any event, so, pretty much - the story is

going around the Elections office, as far as I can tell, that

this guy is not eligible to be on the ballot, and the supervisor

knows it, and -

MR. ADAMS: Well, what's going around is, he's not born in

Hawaii.

Foggy: - and the supervisor told you about it, and you

knew about it, and it was common knowledge in the Elections

office, that this guy was not eligible to be on the ballot.

Where did it go from there? What happened with those

conversations?

MR. ADAMS: Well, I wouldn't say that he wasn't eligible to

be on the ballot, it's the fact he wasn't born in the state.

That's why, when I brought out the information, I thought it was

fairly old hat, because the controversy for us wasn't whether he

was eligible to run for the office of the presidency, it was

whether he had actually been born in Honolulu.

R.C: Tim, one thing we didn't mention were the - are the

contemporary announcements that have surfaced in the two

Honolulu newspapers that came out just days after his birth.

How do you explain those, if he wasn't - if he weren't born in

Hawaii?

MR. ADAMS: When they did the notation for his birth that

appears in the archive, it would have generated the birth - the

birth announcements.

R.C: You say when they did the -

Doc C: How was it in the archives?

MR. ADAMS: When they made the notation that they found in

the archives, at the Department of Health, that would have, that

would have generated a birth announcement in the newspapers.

Doc C: But what - how did the announcement get put in the

- how did the notation get put in the archives in 1961, if

Barack Obama wasn't born in Hawaii?

MR. ADAMS: Well, evidently it was a walk in notation,

because it was handwritten. It was not uncommon. The thing

about a certification of live birth in 1961, the short form

birth certificate, was that it was given specifically to people

who were not born in hospital, and it was often given to native

Hawaiians, who were born at home.

 Doc C.: Are you talking about the Certificate of Hawaiian

Birth?

MR. ADAMS: Yeah. The fact is we took the - the short form

in 1961 was given to people who weren't born in hospital. Now

the official autobiography or biography of President Obama is,

that he was born in hospital, in Hawaii. As such, there should

be a hospital-generated long form birth certificate, and it does

not exist.

Doc C: 1.15.05: Have you ever seen, personally, a Hawaiian

birth certificate for someone not born in a hospital, that was

registered within a year of birth?

MR. ADAMS: Have I seen?

Doc C: The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program,

according to the legislation, is for someone whose birth was not

registered within the first year, so, I mean I presume that

there were people in Hawaii who were born at home, and

registered promptly. Have you ever seen a Birth Certificate for

one of those people?

MR. ADAMS: Have I seen [inaudible] any other Hawaiian

birth certificates? Yes I have. I was connected with the

native Hawaiian movement in Hawaii.

Doc C: I'm not talking about the Certificate of Hawaiian

Birth, because again, as you should know - if you were working

in that area - that that's only for people who - whose

birth was registered more than one year after their birth.

MR. ADAMS: Have I seen certificates of live birth for

people who were born at home? Yes.

R.C: Hey, Tim?

Doc C: Did they look different from the person - people

who were born in the hospital, and how are they different?

MR. ADAMS: There [pause] How are they different? Well, if

they're from the -

Doc C: I mean, if someone in - if someone 30 or 40 years

ago were born at home, and somebody else was born in a hospital

and they both have certificates, how are they different?

MR. ADAMS: Well, for one thing, there's no - there's no

hospital or other - or other institution mentioned on the

document. There's no, uh, mention on the document. There's no

doctor's witness, or any other such witness that's signing off

on the document.

Doc C: I mean, is it the same piece of paper -

MR. ADAMS: No, it's not the same form.

Doc C: - same blank form with different information on it?

MR. ADAMS: No, it's not the same form. They were

physically different forms.

Doc C: Okay. I - you know I personally have never seen

this, this home birth form.

 MR. ADAMS: No, back in - 30, 40 years ago, they were -

there were separate forms, and they looked very different. You

could - there's - there's no real similarity.

1.17.25

Doc C: It would be - it would be extremely useful if

someone, somewhere, would provide an example of such a form.

MR. ADAMS: Okay. Actually I could have some people over

on the island look up -

R.C: Yeah, if you could, if you could -

Doc C: That would be extremely useful.

R.C: Yeah, we'd love to see one.

Doc C: The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth is a different

thing. I mean, that was for people who were not registered …

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, it was a program that I don't believe

that program is even in effect anymore.

Doc C: No, it's not.

MR. ADAMS: I believe the Hawaii DoH website says that

they've stopped that program, a few years ago, actually, but -

Doc C: Yes, it’s been a while.

MR. ADAMS: I might be mistaken, I think so.

Doc C: You're correct.

R.C: You're talking about the Hawaiian - the Hawaiian -

Homelands program, I think for -

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, for Hawaiian -

 R.C: Yeah, for people with Hawaiian heritage.

MR. ADAMS: Ended in the early 70s, I believe.

Doc C: One of the problems when you ask the state about

these things you know, and they'll say 'nobody is here that was

working 40 years ago. They're all gone', and

that - by the way that doctor, RC, that you mentioned, Dr.

Rodney West - you know - he died at age 90 something a couple of

years ago, too, so he's not going to come forward.

R.C: Yeah, and I think - I think that's why some of the

things some of the things Tim has said here are a little bit -

what he's asking for, in other words, how do we know

hospitals keep records from births 50 years ago? I doubt that

they do. I doubt that Kapiolani has any -

MR. ADAMS: Well, I can tell you where the documents - the

actual physical documents would wind up if they're not in the

state archive is that they would normally wind up at the medical

school.

1.19.09

R.C: Yeah, now, Tim, you are aware that - you are aware

that both Barack Obama and Kapiolani Hospital have acknowledged

that he was born there, correct?

MR. ADAMS: No, no. I know there was a letter that they

refuse now to show to public scrutiny, that, as far as I can

tell didn't come from either President Obama. Where it came

from is a matter of conjecture. Some people think that somebody

in Washington in the Senate, who's now a Governor may have

written it, but like I said, I don't really want to get into

that. Whether that letter is valid or not, all that letter

proves is, if President Obama wrote the Kapiolani Hospital

letter congratulating them on - I think it was their 100th

anniversary or something like that?

R.C: Yes.

MR. ADAMS: Then all that proves is that President Obama

wrote a letter to Kapiolani Hospital.

Doc C: They did publish a copy of it in their fund raising

brochure, but still, it's not proof. Let me, you know, you were

talking about ”it never happening again”. Let me ask you a

personal question. If you had it to do over again, would you

have ever given that initial radio interview, given that all the

- all the fallout that's happened since?

MR. ADAMS: Well, I - I've had a lot of weird fallout, and

it's caused me quite a bit of grief. Um, would I do it again?

Yes, and I'll tell you exactly why. Because I think eventually,

we will get to a point where the Congress, or the Supreme Court,

or somebody acts, and we can define - update and define - you

know, who is a natural born citizen. Quite frankly, I would

like to see anyone who was born a United States citizen be

eligible to run for any office they would like to run for. I
don't think your parentage, if there's something wrong, if your

parents have a different blood line than you, so to speak

because they come from another nationality, should restrict

someone from engaging in public life. I’d like actually to see

the definition of a natural born citizen become more inclusive,

and not less inclusive.

Doc C: The majority of scholars would agree with you, Tim,

that things are the way that you expressed that they should be,

although there is - there is some dispute, but I think the

majority of authorities would agree with you.

1.21.55

R.C: Yeah. Tim, Doc C's comment caused me to remember

something you said when we first - at the beginning of the show:

that you were under a gag order? You were under a gag order?

MR. ADAMS: I was under a gag order for a while, because

there was so much going on down here. There - the college was

getting death threats, I've had cops who had to escort me the

two miles back and forth to work every day. It was just nuts.

I've had - I've had my phones tapped, I've had my house

searched, I've had all kinds of stuff done. Everything I've

written or spoke or blogged or anything that might possibly have

been mine that was written or spoken or blogged, for about the

last ten years, was drug up and, you know, put out, in an

attempt to become an ad hominem attack on me, and a lot of it

was not from supporters of Barack Obama. It was because I'm not

a neocon, and I'm not a tea partier, I'm pretty much a liberal.

R.C: Well, that's kind of curious that you were at the -

at the CC - at the COCC meeting. I found that quite odd, that

you happened to pop up there, though. That's not a place

that I would have expected to have found a liberal.

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, I was doing some local journalism here

last year, and I'd been fairly successful at it, and they were

having this big meeting down in Nashville, and you always hear

about groups like this, and I said, I don't know what I'm going

to find when I go down there. Are these guys going to be

marching around in - you know - swastikas on their arms or

something. And er, I went down there actually to observe it. I

was doing a - I was doing a summer workshop, over here at

Western, and I was actually using it as writing material. I was

going down there to observe the conference, and to write about

it.

1.53.27

R.C: And what did you find?

MR. ADAMS: Erm, the actual Council of Conservative

Citizen's themselves? They're pretty much just middle class,

mainstream conservative folks, mainly older, the kind of people

you find in church on Sunday. Don't need to worry about them at

all. What's scary is the people who you find down there
attempting to co-opt them. Paul Fromm was there.

The Black family who own Stormfront dot org were there.

They had about half a dozen PhDs running around down there,

which really surprised me, and they all came from this anthropo

- how did they call this? It's a, you know, anthropological

studies type thing. Forensic psychology, I believe they're

calling this discipline they're coming out with now, and

actually my thesis is on the whole thing that I'm working on for

at Western right now. And it's very interesting, because as I'm

- as I'm writing in my own thesis and stuff now on the subject,

after the 60s - you know - basically the white power movement

had to change its image, and so along came David Duke, and he

kind of cleaned it up, and now these guys are trying to coopt

the extreme right wing conservative movement, and they want

people who have PhDs. They want people who are in academia.

You know, they would probably at the time they met me loved to

have converted me.

They want the legitimacy these people bring to these

movements. At the same time they're trying to cover up the

presence of these really extremist people. When I was down at

the conference, there was a gentleman down there who was

obviously quite disturbed, and he would interrupt the speakers

constantly, asking them why they wouldn't name the certain

racial group that he blamed for all the problems in America, and
you know, these kind of people exist, and then you have these

other people that are very respectable, and they appear very

legitimate, but the things that they're pushing are actually the

same old hack, kind of racial doctrines that you've heard for,

you know, a hundred years. But they're packaging it very

slickly.

1.26.39

R.C: Tim, I want to get back to something you said just a

minute ago, there. You said your phone was tapped? How did you

- who tapped your phone?

(long pause)

Hello?

Doc C: I guess somebody tapped his phone.

R.C: Yeah, that's odd! He - we did. He dropped off.

Foggy: He's gone, yeah.

R.C: I hope he calls back in. We'll watch for him there.

Foggy: I should've written the number down. We could call

him back.

R.C: You know I started to and I didn't. I only got the

area code written down. Maybe he'll call back in in a minute,

but I wanted to ask him - that was interesting.

Doc C: Yeah, one of the questions I would like to explore

if we could is, you know, if - if indeed somebody at the

elections division accessed the Social Security database, for

example looking up Obama, and they weren't supposed to, then we

are talking about a crime, and I'm wondering if Mr. Adams would

assert that he is protecting these individuals, that he refuses

to name, because what they might have done was illegal. Because

obviously the Honolulu office is not in charge of who gets on

the ballot at state level in Hawaii. So they - they would not

have had any - even if Mr. Adams thinks that they had a

legitimate reason to look it up, certainly they didn't, and

whether he would go that way as an explanation -

R.C: Foggy, let me ask you, and you too, Doc C , if I

could ask you something. Did you find it incredible that Tim

Adams said that he had never seen the COLB images on Fact Check?

Who knows anything about - what person who knows the word

birther hasn't looked at those?

Foggy: He was full of a good deal of what we would

consider to be wrong information. You know, when he said that

the long form hospital-issued birth certificate was what he was

looking for, you should have seen the Fogbow chatroom going

bananas on us.

R.C: Yeah, I hope we're not missing - I see, I see another

caller with their hand up Foggy, if you want to catch 'em, but

I'll continue with Doc C if you wanna -

 Foggy: This is 808, no, okay, this is going to be

Mimi. I'll - let me double - I don't even have to ask. I know

this one's going to be Mimi. Yeah, here we go.

01:29:45

Mimi: Hi.

Foggy: Mimi, you’re on the air.

Mimi: Hello.

RC: Good evening.

Mimi: Well, that was interesting.

RC: Well, Mimi, I hope he calls back in. I hope got to

questions that people wanted to hear. I tried to stay on script

as well as I could and certainly appreciate -

Foggy: Here he is back again, hang on a second.

RC: Hey, Tim.

MR. ADAMS: You find out what happens when your phones are

tapped. You mention ‘Stormfront’ and they cut your phone line

off.

[Laughter.]

Foggy: Well, we got you back now.

RC: Let me finish with one question and then I’ll let all

the callers, go to the callers questions.

You made a video, and I tried to find it today and I didn’t

find it, about giving up your U.S. citizenship and becoming,

getting something called a World Passport. Are you still

pursuing that or did you abandon that idea?

01:30:45

MR. ADAMS: Well, I found that in order to actually get a

citizenship outside of the United States is going to cost me

about $50,000. There is no, I was exploring trying to do it on

the cheap, but there really is no way to do it. Yeah, back at

the time, I don’t know how much you all heard before I got cut

off there, umm, yeah, when all this happened, it was nuts. It

was a mess. And I really got to the point, I thought, I’m going

to have to leave the country.

01:31:30

I don’t get nearly as much grief now, either professionally

or otherwise. But it was really bad for a while. You know, it

got very violent. There are some really, you know, kind of

dangerous people out there.

Mimi: Mr. Adams?

RC: This is Mimi, Tim.

MR. ADAMS: Hello, Mimi.

Mimi: Hey! Hi! I was wondering about accessing all those

records. So I looked up, at the Hawaiian government website,

the election part, and what they say is that they’re tied in

with the DMV and with the real estate records. They’re working
on the Social Security records. And that’s it. That’s all they

have.

And so you say that your office would, well, somebody

there, would call the hospitals.

MR. ADAMS: Yes, we did.

Mimi: And you also told RC that you had access to criminal

records, and yet -

MR. ADAMS: Yes, we did.

Mimi: Well, they don't list them there.

MR. ADAMS: I know. That’s what we, Glen and them, got in

trouble for. What happens is that when they hook you into the

databases, or how it was. I don’t know if they put up better

safeguards now. Back when I was working there in 2008, they

plugged you into the state database, if you knew how to work a

database, and you had unrestricted access like the managers and

the administrators did, and not like the regular workers.

01:33:10

The regular temporary workers had very limited access. We

could go through several databases, including police, taxes -

Mimi: Why would you do that?

MR. ADAMS: Well it’s all interconnected. It wasn't

intentional. It was just the facts.

Mimi: Yeah, but why would you, why would anybody want to

access the criminal databases?

 MR. ADAMS: Because you might not be able to identify

someone’s - you might not be able to verify someone’s identity

any other way.

It’s not a problem until you can’t prove someone’s identity

and then - they actually didn’t do it as some kind of nefarious

thing. It was just simply the fact that if you have someone

coming in who’s wanting to vote, ummm, if you can’t verify their

identity then you’re going to take away that person’s right to

cast a ballot, and that [inaudible] absolutely the wrong thing.

01:34:00

Mimi: So if you couldn’t verify someone’s identity with

the DMV or with real estate records, or -

MR. ADAMS: They might be a homeless person.

Mimi: And then you would check criminal records.

MR. ADAMS: We could go through criminal records, we could

go through bank records if they wanted to give us information.

There was all sorts of things we could do. We would sometimes

physically get in the car and go out and find people at their

homes to verify their identities. Because the goal, the

mission, of our office, was every person gets to vote.

Mimi: Well, I think that the Hawaiian government is gonna

be real surprised that the elections office has access to the

criminal records.
 MR. ADAMS: Ummm, they were not happy about it when they

found out. See, I didn’t, not having worked there before, I was

not really aware that certain things were supposed to be

restricted. And after I made my original statements last year,

I found out from the people at the Elections Office that they

got quite a bit of heat over that, and I imagine that they've

went in and changed that at this point.

The only problem being there with about one percent of the

population on the island of Oahu homeless at any given time,

they may well not be able to verify those people’s identities

for the voter rolls. And those people may not get to vote in an

election where they should have been allowed to. And that

brings up another whole legal argument.

01:35:30

RC: Hey, Tim. This is RC. One question people wanted me

to ask you is why you waited two years to come forward with

this?

MR. ADAMS: Actually, I didn’t. But no one listened to me

because I’m really not important. It made headlines because -

the only reason anything I’ve said ever made headlines was the

fact that I was on The Political Cesspool with James Edwards.

If it hadn’t been for that, you probably never would have heard

of it.

01:36:00
 RC: Well, I mean, you could have - you could certainly

call my show, but I haven’t been around - I’ve been around about

a year and a half. But I mean there, I mean there - you could

have contacted any number, I’m sure World Net Daily would have

wanted this story two years ago. But you could have contacted

legitimate news sources, too.

MR. ADAMS: I didn’t think it was big news. The whole idea

of Barack Obama not being born - there’s kind of a local

movement in Hawaii that goes ‘Barack Obama Not Hawaiian’. A lot

of people still don’t think that he was born there. They think

that - now that leaves 49 other states for him to be born in and

probably four territories and a whole host of other things. And

I always thought that, since his mom was an American citizen,

they'd try to bring her age into it. But if he was born to an

American mother and - there’s, you know, all sorts of other

things you can go into, but the fact is, he was born - I still

believe the fact is Barack Obama is an American citizen.

01:37:00

RC: But, Tim, if he was not born in Hawaii, you know we

know these newspaper announcements came out four days, five

days, within a week or so after his birth.

MR. ADAMS: Well, his grandparents lived there. It wasn’t

hard for them to register his birth in Hawaii.

RC: Well, where was he born?

 MR. ADAMS: My two most likely guesses are either Kansas,

where his mother was originally from, or Washington state,

because two weeks after he was born she was reportedly up there

going to college.

I’m not saying that there’s - see, the birther movement

started because people perceive that there’s been a lie told.

Barack Obama’s official biography says that he was born in

hospital in Hawaii. And it’s never been conclusively verified.

Now, we can argue about that, but that’s how it got started.

01:38:00

So these people jump to the conclusion, 1) because of his

race, or 2) because of his upbringing, or you know, any number

of reasons. That’s how it got started.

But, the fact is is that people perceive that there’s been

a lie told, that Barack Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii

did not occur. And so, as long as people think that, you know,

I mean, a politician lying is like shooting fish in the barrel,

right? But I mean, the fact is that when people perceive there

is a lie, whether there is or not, that’s why it’s so tenacious

and it’s not going away.

RC: Yeah, Tim, let me correct something, Mimi, and then

I’ll get right to you. Stanley Durham Obama actually enrolled

in the University of Washington, but it wasn’t in August, it was

in September. That’s been corrected. And she was actually a

correspondence student there at least the first quarter, maybe

for an entire year. So she didn’t go to Seattle two weeks after

Obama was born.

But, if Obama was born in Kansas or Washington State, why

wouldn’t the birth certificate had been issued there like it is

for everyone else where they’re born in the U.S.?

01:39:18

MR. ADAMS: Well, that gets into the whole thing. Is his

birth certificate from Hawaii or not? See, they could have

registered him in Hawaii if he was born somewhere else.

RC: But, they could not have registered him, and gotten a

birth certificate, that says ‘Place of Birth, Honolulu’.

MR. ADAMS: Well, despite the argument we had earlier about

the certification of live birth, I haven’t seen one that says he

was born in Honolulu, quite frankly.

RC: Factcheck.org.

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, I’m gonna check this one out after we get

off the show tonight.

RC: All right.

MR. ADAMS: But, in all honesty, people believe there’s

been some kind of cover-up. And I don’t think it’s some kind of

big nefarious conspiracy. I think it’s politics as usual.

Barack Obama’s official autobiography was put out to the public

for the public’s consumption, and we all know that politicians,

they have a public persona, it’s created, you know, for

consumption by the electorate, and I think that they’ve been

caught fibbing. And it’s embarrassing.

Now, I think as much trauma, you know, as all this has

caused, I think if Barack Obama has lied about where he was

born, or there’s something about his birth that he doesn’t want

people to publicly know, if he would come out and say something

like that, I think most people would go “oh, okay”. And they

would go on about their business because they got a thousand

more important things to do.

01:41:00

But it does bring up the change that I would like to see in

our society. And I would like to see a definition of Article II

which is much more inclusive. And I know you could say “well,

technically now we’re there”. But the fact that we have these

fights over what the meaning of ‘natural born citizen’ is would

seem to indicate that we need to go ahead and define it.

Foggy: Well, again I’m gonna disagree there because, you

know, it’s a legal definition. As far as I’ve been able to tell

there are five lawyers in the United States who are arguing that

you need two citizen parents. There are about 1.2 million

lawyers in the United States. The other 1.1 million nine

hundred ninety -
 MR. ADAMS: I’m not even saying that we should have one

citizen parent. I’m thinking if you’re born an American

citizen, whether your parents came here from another country or

not, you should be allowed to run for office.

RC: Tim, you are. You are, Tim.

1:42:00

Mimi: Mr. Adams, at the beginning, uh, you have repeatedly

stated how you were at that convention for a writing assignment.

I was wondering if you’re still a fan of the Westboro Baptist

Church?

MR. ADAMS: I follow the Westboro Baptist Church. We don’t

agree on some things, obviously.

Mimi: Yeah, you called them a blessing.

MR. ADAMS: I think I’m a heathen compared to them.

Mimi: Your words were “it’s definitely a blessing to have

a group of Christians who accurately and blatantly put the real

Gospel of Jesus Christ out in the public view.”

MR. ADAMS: Yeah, consider that statement.

Mimi: I consider them to be a hate church. I consider

them to be a hate group.

RC: Tim, did you actually join them at the protest at

Punchbowl Cemetery when Obama’s grandmother passed away?

01:43:00

MR. ADAMS: No, they didn’t show up.

 RC: You were there?

Mimi: But you did?

MR. ADAMS: I went there to see if they were gonna show up,

but they didn’t show up. There were several members of the

Hawaii Police Department that were there hoping they would show

up also.

I can tell you who was there that I know and that was Mrs.

Freeman [phonetic]. And the Freemans are the owners of AIG

Insurance Company, and they have a very nice estate out there at

Black Point and I used to stay out there in their guest house

quite a bit. Lovely elderly couple. And, she was the one who

was there, placing the wreath on Barack Obama’s mother’s grave.

I mean it’s a very small society over there. There’s only a

million people in Honolulu and you get to meet some fascinating

people. Some people who, I mean the Freemans are billionaires.

Mimi: Well, it doesn’t sound to me like you like the

Hawaiians very much.

MR. ADAMS: Ma'am?

01:44:00

Mimi: It, from your own words, it doesn’t sound to me like

you like Hawaiian people.

MR. ADAMS: Oh, I was very active with the Native Hawaiian

people. And I’ve lived right down in Kapolama [phonetic], right

outside Chinatown. I was in one of the poorest districts in

Honolulu.

Mimi: So, when you said “True, like most minority

societies in history, the Hawaiians: Never domesticated

animals, Never developed the wheel, Never had metal based

technology, Never developed a modern political or social

structure, Never learned to write, Never got rid of their idols,

Never built a road, Never wove cloth, Lost the art of making

pottery, but lapita pottery…”

MR. ADAMS: Where did you get this?

Mimi: You wrote this.

MR. ADAMS: I did?

Mimi: Yes, you did, and -

MR. ADAMS: When did I write this? If you happen to have

it there, since it sounds like you’re reading it, please tell me

because I’ve had several people claim I’ve written things in the

past and it turns out that I did not write them.

Mimi: Well, you’ve used quite a few names, that’s why.

MR. ADAMS: Not really. I use the same names I always

have.

Mimi: Your YouTube channel is under one name, you’ve

blogged under ‘Brian’ - is it ‘Brian Thomas’? Was that you?

MR. ADAMS: Brian Thomas is not me.

Mimi: Well, your picture’s there.

 MR. ADAMS: That doesn’t surprise me. My picture’s all

over the internet. I have 2.5 million hits on videos I didn't

make.

Mimi: No, no, they’re old. Yes, but your blog posts are

exactly the same as your myspace posts, with the same picture,

and the same dates.

RC: And these are before the Political Cesspool

appearance, Mimi? I think those were fairly old.

Mimi: Yes, yes.

MR. ADAMS: Well, those are several years ago.

Mimi: Oh. So you’ve changed your mind?

01:46:00

MR. ADAMS: Actually, no, ma'am. I was living with Native

Hawaiian people while writing all this.

Mimi: Yeah, you weren’t, wait, how is it you referred to

the island, a ‘Ghetto Paradise’? But -

MR. ADAMS: ‘Ghetto Paradise’, yes, ma'am.

Mimi: Additionally, you wrote about Obama. “Racism is

going against Obama, except it isn't, no wait, it really is...no

wait, we have to bring up the race issue because the real

racists are too smart to do it...no wait, if you don't vote for

a Daly Machine, corrupt, racist, islamist, liberal candidate -

MR. ADAMS: Isn’t that the state of public discourse? Any

criticism of Obama has to be based on race?

 Mimi: “because our chosen messiah is getting whipped like

a Hebrew slave child by a white woman from Alaska. Wait, I

can't say that, it's racist, or is it?“

MR. ADAMS: Is it?

RC: Well, yes, if you said what Mimi just said I would

call it racist.

MR. ADAMS: How it is racist?

RC: What? Read that sentence again, Mimi, about being

whipped.

Mimi: “if you don't vote for a Daly Machine, corrupt,

racist, islamist, liberal candidate, it's because you're

racist...or not, we can't say, but of course we just did,

because our chosen messiah is getting whipped like a Hebrew

slave child by a white woman from Alaska. Wait, I can't say

that, it's racist, or is it? Looks like Hillary Clinton (who

still had more votes) should have been the nominee. Democrats

alienate their own membership by forcing agenda with Obama

candidacy...”

You know, you’re not really a fan of President Obama, are

you?

MR. ADAMS: I didn’t vote for Obama, never hypnotized. I

was a Hillary Clinton supporter and donated money and supported

her campaign. I don’t like anybody from the Daly Machine in

Chicago, ma'am, I believe Chicago to be one of the most corrupt

political systems in the country.

RC: Well, I guess Obama ended up in Chicago, but I don’t

think you can really pin him. I’ve heard that said before

because he's from Chicago, but I don’t think there’s any

evidence that he was part of some political machine. He seems

to be able to handle things on his own.

MR. ADAMS: Bill Ayers and Reverend Wright. Two names I

can think of right off the top of the hat are people that I

wouldn’t want to invite to my house.

Mimi: Well, I don’t know, I just got a whole different

picture of you. You know, you’re a fan of Westboro Baptist

Church. You are, obviously, not a fan of Obama, and not a fan

of the Hawaiian people. You’ve also written some really kinda

strange -

01:49:00

MR. ADAMS: You somehow get the idea that I am not a fan of

the Hawaiian people? I’ve lived and worked with the Hawaiian

people, ma'am, in fact I was the person who was given a - how

would you say it? I was asked, commissioned I guess you would

say, to produce a full-length drama about a man by the name of

Henry Obookiah, or Opukaha'ia, who was the first Native Hawaiian

man to bring Christianity to Hawaii.

 Mimi: Well, I didn’t finish the quote though. At the end

of it you said: “When one asks the question, "Why are these

groups on the margins of the world?" Now we can see why.

Those who never managed to reach the basic levels of human

achievement,(by the way, arriving in the Pacific islands because

they were forcibly driven out militarily by incoming mainland

Asians, you mighty warriors you) are evolutionary dead heads,

Hawaii, a stratified, isolated society only did well so long as

they were isolated, not only from the Haoles, but from the other

Polynesians also. Then one day, the competition showed up.”

It doesn’t sound like a person who is, you know, a fan. It

sounds like you hate them.

MR. ADAMS: Because I speak the truth about military

history?

RC: Well, isn’t the very definition of racism an

ethnicism? You know, holding a history like that against

people? Because Hawaiians, yes, isolated societies generally

did not have the advantages of larger societies like the

European and Eurasians -

MR. ADAMS: Well, the Europeans, while they were isolated,

they didn’t do any better. It was only when they started going

out into the world that they started advancing.

01:50:00 Mimi: ‘Evolutionary deadheads’ would not be a term, I

think, that anybody would consider to be flattering.

 RC: If I were in Hawaii, let me just say this, if I were

Native Hawaiian I would just found that passage extremely

offensive. I’d love to talk to a Native Hawaiian and read him

that passage and see what they thought but -

Anything else, Mimi? We’ll give someone else a chance to

call in. We've got about 10 minutes.

Mimi: I think I'll hang up and listen to the rest online.

Thanks, though, that did clear some stuff up for me. I still

don’t understand anything about how it is that the hospitals

would violate HIPAA regulations by just giving out information,

so I think I’ll tend to believe Dr. Fukino, who flat-out said he

was born in Hawaii. But, it’s been interesting. So, thanks a

lot.

01:52:00

RC: One thing, Mimi, that was brought up when Mark

Hatfield was here, too, those hospital records actually are not

the child’s. Those hospital records belong to the mother. And,

of course, Stanley Durham had passed away a long time ago. So,

the idea that somebody can just call up and say “oh, I want

these records” …

MR. ADAMS: Well, it’s not just someone, sir. It happens

to be the state agency in charge of verifying the existence of

people’s identities.
 Mimi: They can’t even tell the police. They’re not even

allowed to give the police hospital information. Not even the

police. It’s a HIPAA requirement.

MR. ADAMS: We weren’t asking for information, ma'am, that

was restricted, we were asking if they were in possession of the

record.

Mimi: They’re not allowed.

MR. ADAMS: They can tell us they’re in possession of the

record.

Mimi: No, they can’t. They cannot. It’s against the law.

It’s against the law. So, if in fact, that’s what you were

doing, there will be a -

MR. ADAMS: No, ma'am, it is not. It’s against the law for

them to release copies to the public.

Mimi: No, they’re not even allowed to say whether or not

they have them. They’re not. However, Dr. Fukino’s statement,

“I have seen the original vital records maintained on file by

the Hawaii State Department -

MR. ADAMS: If you can ever find where Dr. Fukino actually

said that, please let me know.

Mimi: “ - verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in

Hawaii.”

MR. ADAMS: I will disagree with that to you until I see

proof otherwise.
 Mimi: Obviously, with everything that you’ve just told me,

whose side would I take?

MR. ADAMS: My statement remains the same, ma'am, there is

no long form birth certificate, it does not exist.

Mimi: “verifying - ”

RC: And you can tell me one name who I can call tomorrow,

give me one person I can call tomorrow -

MR. ADAMS: I did like the way you brought up the idea

where I was talking, the thing about racist dialogue. You can’t

say something because it's racist, because you can’t get me on

anything else so you’re going to try and paint me as racist.

01:54:00:

Mimi: Get you? You haven’t given us one name. Your

affidavit says ‘Supervisors’.

MR. ADAMS: Ma'am, I’m not allowed to give you those names.

You talk about information you can’t be giving out, when someone

restricts you from giving their name, you can’t do it.

Mimi: An affidavit isn’t - that’s hearsay.

MR. ADAMS: - can’t do it. It’s hearsay -

Mimi: No, you can’t do it. Do you understand? You can’t

just say some guy, who I’m not gonna tell you. I mean, what

does that mean?

 MR. ADAMS: I can tell you who they were, ma'am, but I

cannot give their name because they have forbidden their name to

be used. See, they have that right.

Mimi: Then the affidavit is worthless. It’s hearsay. It

means nothing.

RC: It’s not really even an affidavit. That’s the point I

was trying to get to. An affidavit is sworn under threat of

perjury from an officer of the court. I could go take my cat’s

vaccination papers to the vet, and then take them to a notary

and get them notarized and call them an affidavit. And if I

lied about the cat’s name or age, nobody’s gonna put me.

01:55:00

This was a stunt, a publicity stunt, done for World Net

Daily. You know apparently paid for a - I don’t know why they

needed a lawyer to write this up, because anybody could do this

document on a word processor, I’m not sure why a lawyer -

MR. ADAMS: Well, I’m sure they have lawyers on staff.

Mimi: Hey, have you met any of them? Have you met Corsi

or Joe Farah or Bob Whats-His-Name or any of them?

MR. ADAMS: Bob Unruh? I have not met them in person.

Mimi: Oh. But you talk to them on the phone?

MR. ADAMS: I talk to them on the phone and speak to them

over the internet.

Mimi: Still?
 RC: Tim, do you believe World Net Daily is a credible

source for news?

MR. ADAMS: Well, [inaudible] most of the news we get

nowadays. I take them as credible on some things. I also know

they’re in a business, and so are most of the other media

outlets. And you have to take all of them with a grain of salt.

I don’t particularly trust, you know, any of them. But I think

they’re fairly honest, until I see otherwise.

Mimi: Why would you read a story and trust the account of

a guy where the guy won’t give you the names? I’m just

wondering.

Foggy: Folks, we’re down to about four minutes.

MR. ADAMS: Mimi, I’m sorry, I can’t give you their names

because a number of people still work there.

Mimi: But what would - if you read that story, would you

believe it? If you read a story and it just said some anonymous

sources told me, would you buy it?

01:56:30

MR. ADAMS: I understand. Well, it’s not an anonymous

source, I told you who they are, I just can’t give you their

names. You can go look them up. But I cannot name them because

they have said they do not want their names used.

RC: Okay, give me the title, Tim, give me the title, and

we’ll try to find them.

 MR. ADAMS: If you look for the people who were my

supervisors you will find the names.

RC: Okay. What are their official titles?

MR. ADAMS: Oh Lord, I don’t have the paperwork here in

front of me. Tell you, you know Glen, and Glen has allowed his

name to be used. You can ask Glen what the titles for them are,

and he can fill you in.

RC: I’ll see if I can get -

MR. ADAMS: I don’t have the paperwork here with me. It’s

in the pile here somewhere.

RC: So, did you - you did ultimately report to Glen

Takahashi then?

MR. ADAMS: Well, Glen was over, there was Glen and another

gentleman whose name I’m blanking right now, and they were - it

went down from the city clerk. I believe there was another

gentleman, and then Glen, and then my supervisors, and then me.

So Glen was over basically another part of the operation, but he

was also either one of the people who was in charge of overall

operations or he was right under the man who was in charge of

overall operations.

RC: According to Dave Weigel, he was the Elections

Administrator for the city and county of Honolulu. It sounds

like to me the Elections Offices would have been under his

supervision.
 MR. ADAMS: The main office, downtown, was where he worked.

So, he was probably one of the overall administrators.

Foggy: Two minute warning.

RC: Okay the article says that he is the administrator.

MR. ADAMS: Well, he's been promoted since then.

RC: Foggy, someone there has their hand up there. Did you

check them out?

Foggy: Oh no, I missed that one.

RC: Okay, let’s bring them up.

Foggy: They just went up too. I don’t know who they -

RC: Area code starting with 3, I won’t give any more. Did

you have a quick question? We’ve got about two minutes.

SueDB: Yeah, I’ve got a quick comment.

RC: Okay, a quick comment.

SueDB: Oh yeah, cool. This is SueDB.

RC: Hey! Welcome to the show, SueDB.

Foggy: Hey!

SueDB: I finally got in.

Foggy: The boy named Sue!

01:58:55

SueDB: (inaudible) in about the medical stuff and medical

records get disappeared after like seven or ten years. They go

to a warehouse, then they get burned.

RC or Foggy: How long -

 SueDB: You know, it depends on the rules, and it depends

on their insurance company. How long they’re gonna cover them

for. But, you know, they took X-rays, all old X-ray films that

almost disappeared these days because, you know, they’ve been

burned up to recycle the silver.

RC: After what’s the typical time on that, SueDB?

SueDB: Well, sheesh, like we used to keep even narcotic

records for five years before we destroyed. So our records of

narcotic transactions were, you know, were five years, bang,

they’re gone.

RC: So these birth records Tim is talking about would most

likely not be there, right?

SueDB: No! This is what they did in 2000 is they all went

to these electronic databases. The database is actually the

official file. And, what they’ve done is gotten rid of all the

paper. It’s all gone. It’s disappeared it’s (inaudible). You

will not find a paper copy. But what you will find is a

certified, legal, lawful database that all this information is

in. And, if you say “well, of course you can’t find a long

form” because what people are thinking of is there's a piece of

paper in there, and no, it’s in data. And it’s certified data.

And that’s the way it is because things are interconnected.

RC: Hey, I gotta cut you off, SueDB. Hang on just a

second. Thanks, everybody, because the show’s going off

streaming right now. But we can hang on in the archive here for

just a few minutes.

Okay, we’re not streaming anymore, but we can finish up

your comment, SueDB. And then I want to thank Tim for hanging

in there for two hours. I know we were kind of hard on him.

SueDB: That’s good. He’s hanging in real good. But yeah,

I’ve worked in and out of hospitals for twenty years and, you

know, another five downtown medical, and with HIPAA and

everything, you cannot even acknowledge that you possess a

record. Because that, in itself, is an admission that you’re

seeing a patient which violates the patient’s privacy. You just

cannot do it.

02:01:12

So, anything to do with medical records, it’s like, this

was 1961, anything that Mama had in medical records is long gone

by now. It is absolutely unreasonable to suppose that her

records are going to be there. There’s no reason to have it. It

costs money. And, it’s big money to warehouse all this stuff,

keep it all nice and warm, keep the bugs out of it, and keep it.

And then employ somebody to stand there and look at it all

night. And paper deteriorates. So, you know, it all points to

you just wrap it into an electronic database and be done with

it.
 RC: Which is exactly what Hawaii did. Everything now,

since 2001, everything has been done electronically and that

COLB is a verification of what’s electronically in that

database.

SueDB: Yeah, and if I wanted a long form out of there I

would put in an inquiry that would give me the information that

consists of whatever the long form is. You can custom tailor a

report now to give you exactly what you want in it

(Holy Cao audio plays)

RC: Somebody’s playing. Okay, we gotta wrap it up. Tim -

SueDB: Anyway, that’s the whole deal about this database.

It’s totally unreasonable to expect a piece of paper to be there

after sixty years. Sixty, seventy years. It’s, you know, it

just doesn’t pay.

RC: Okay. Hey, Tim, thanks for -

(outro clip)