@mathfour Guess who's here...

:D #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:32:00 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80356764226289665 - #1

@ColinTGraham Hello everyone and welcome to today's #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 19:32:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80356794454654977 - #2

@ColinTGraham @mathfour Hi Bon! #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 19:32:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80356851769810944 - #3

@mathfour My fav part of any #mathchat - the confusing topic #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 19:32:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80357006636093440 - #4

@mathfour I'm having to construct corporate training while I chat, so y'all bear with me. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:33:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80357133828358144 - #5

@ColinTGraham For first first-timers, don't try to follow everything, it moves fast at times! Just interact with one or two people. Don't forget ---> #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:33:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80357152153276416 - #6

@ColinTGraham Today's topic is: "Is mathematics unique in the wider curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops?" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:34:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80357336635543552 - #7

@ColinTGraham We got 'hung up' last time on 'defending other subjects'... and didn't really say what we thought deeper thinking skills were #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:36:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 8035 80357852358787072 - #8

@Janshs RT @ColinTGraham: Today's topic is: "Is mathematics unique in the wider curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops?" #mathchat hinking
Mon Jun 13 19:36:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80357934630060032 - #9

@Janshs great #mathchat q from @ColinTGraham might get some non non-Maths teachers involved???
Mon Jun 13 19:37:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 8 80358080705077249 - #10

@MrHonner I wasn't there last time, but my first impression of this topic was definitely "This is somewhat offensive to non hat non-math teachers" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:37:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358163265753088 - #11

@mathfour So can you clarify the question, since I missed last time (and the last and the last before that, etc.)? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:37:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358237370712064 - #12

@Sundayteatime #mathchat yes maths rules ;-)

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 19:38:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358280525918208 - #13

@ColinTGraham @MrHonner Well I just put out the questions as asked on the discussion document Patrick! Management accepts no responsibility... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:38:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358384800514048 - #14

@mathfour @MrHonner Oh! Now I get it! Is math unique in that it creates a different type of thinking than other subjects...? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:38:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358466811731969 - #15

@jmclean77 My first thought is "No", are we maybe asking "is Math effective at developing deeper thinking skills and why?" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:38:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358473099001857 - #16

@Janshs I think that sociology & social sciences must surely look at deep thinking? surely #mathchat - but are they taught early enough for most folks?
Mon Jun 13 19:39:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358689286004738 - #17

@ColinTGraham The general feeling was that all subjects have deeper thinking skills and that they can be developed in context, so "no", but... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:39:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358690871455744 - #18

@mathfour I think that since math is often taught as algorithms, then it is LESS effective in creating deeper thinking skills. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:39:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358761117650944 - #19

@suburbanlion Dig deep enough in any subject & you'll find math, but "digging deeper" should not be limited to math class. #mathchat imited
Mon Jun 13 19:40:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80358938012434433 - #20

@jmclean77 When it comes to inquiry, the work of @ddmeyer is effect effective at having students ask what they are looking for and how to get there #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:40:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359016936652800 - #22

@mathfour I think math should be taught within every other subject. Then we could let the logical thinking really blossom. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:40:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359021718151169 - #23

@ColinTGraham However, my view was that maybe mathematics *requires* thinking at owever, deeper levels the farther you go/need to go #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:41:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359074931294209 - #24

@MrHonner @mathfour That's what I was thinking it requires deep thinking about logical thinking--it truth, as opposed to empirical truth #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:41:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359093772099585 - #25

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

@mathfour Yepper! RT @suburbanlion: Dig deep enough in any subject & youll find math #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:41:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359130375794689 - #26

@ColinTGraham @jmclean77 That was a general feeling, last time, maybe mathematics provides more opportunity for developing dee deeper thinking... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:42:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359301897662464 - #27

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham I think math requires a unique kind of deep thinking, but in general, depth is a function of teacher and student. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:43:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359643980890112 - #28

@jmclean77 @ColinTGraham if presented properly, math takes on catalytic role in motivating students to ask questions and guide their learning #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:43:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359642508689409 - #29

@ColinTGraham @suburbanlion Digging deeper is not necessarily deeper thinking, though. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:43:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359670010748928 - #30

@MrHonner @jmclean77 @ColinTGraham But the same can be said of most subjects, really, if "taught properly". #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:44:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359868137078784 - #32

@mathfour @jmclean77 That's only if they are intrigued in that way. I would have gone wouldn't for that type of thing when I was a kid. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:44:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80359869386993664 - #33

@ColinTGraham @jmclean77 Many mentioned the analysis required in, say, literature or music lessons as being deeper thinking... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:45:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360054657785856 - #34

@jmclean77 Inquiry, critical thinking, analysis what other deep thinking skills does math thinking, help students learn? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:45:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360111809380352 - #35

@mathfour @jmclean77 But proper presentation depends on the child/learner. Not every method works for everyone. @KhanAcademy or @dydan #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:45:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360135377158145 - #36

@jmclean77 @mathfour I would have agreed with you but @ddmeyer changed my mind #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:45:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360197201215489 - #37

@jmclean77 @mathfour I would have agreed with you but @ddmeyer changed my mind #mathchat
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 19:45:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360197201215489 - #38

@mathfour @jmclean77 Metaphysical thinking, too. #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 19:46:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360405934931968 - #39

@ColinTGraham @mathfour @jmclean77 What do you mean by "proper" in this context? Appropriate or proper to whom or to what? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:46:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360468266483712 - #40

@jmclean77 @ColinTGraham by proper I meant in a way that engages the learner and creates curiosity #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:47:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360606179409920 - #41

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham Profound understanding of art (literature, music) can create the same "deep thinking" in students, I believe. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:47:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360727000514561 - #42

@mathfour @ColinTGraham @jmclean77 Exactly my point. If a S doesn't c care about the world (some don't - I didn't) then... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:48:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360858831687680 - #43

@ColinTGraham @jmclean77 What other deep thinking skills would you add to your list "Inquiry, critical thinking, analysis"... is that not enough #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:48:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80360861104996352 - #44

@mathfour @ColinTGraham @jmclean77 ...then math for math's sake might be best. Not nTGraham everyone will take the experiment route. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:48:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361029602783234 - #45

@ColinTGraham @MrHonner Do you mean reflection here, Patrick? Relating a new experience to a past one? What is profound under understanding, exactly? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:49:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361169990332417 - #46

@Janshs are we talking 'higher order thinking skills'? #mathchat do you need to be able to deal w/ abstract concepts for those? wd eg algebra h help?
Mon Jun 13 19:49:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361269789605888 - #47

@mathfour @jmclean77 @ColinTGraham Engaging and curiosity provoking is dependent curiosity on S, not method or teacher. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:50:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361323262787584 - #48

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham Trying understand the rules (of writing, of music, of art), trying to understand your role in the process. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:50:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361507027820547 - #49

@ColinTGraham @Janshs Well I tend to look towards Bloom's taxonomy and cognitive load when starting any discussion about thinking... #mathchat
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 19:51:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361553525874688 - #50

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham Reflection, absolutely, but more than that. And these all apply in #math, too. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:51:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361620982861824 - #51

@jmclean77 RT @mathfour: Engaging and curiosity provoking is dependent on S, not mthd or tchr. #mathchat Really!? I m surprised & intrigued, elaborate?
Mon Jun 13 19:52:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361861077401603 - #52

@Janshs #mathchat @ColinTGraham I'd agree - does the ability to suspend belief come into this?
Mon Jun 13 19:52:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80361940605599744 - #53

@teachdig I think deeper Thinking comes when analyzing historical documents as well #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:52:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362010788888576 - #54

@ColinTGraham @mathfour @jmclean77 I know, for example, I may have a p passing interest in some areas of mathematics, but will never really engage #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:53:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362066451513344 - #55

@maxmathforum Seems like transfer is a big question here. Does critical historical analysis help a kid get better at critical quant analysis? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:53:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362280239366144 - #56

@ColinTGraham @teachdig Yes, because analysis is 'higher' in Bloom's taxonomy, for example... then any analysis is deeper than comprehension... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:54:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362464637747200 - #57

@maxmathforum I'm not convinced being good at asking good questions in math class transfers to a general good question skill, for example #mathchat nsfers
Mon Jun 13 19:55:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362661866516480 - #58

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Or does developing rational analysis techniques in mathematics help with approaching qualitative analysis too? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:55:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362715520049152 - #59

@Janshs #mathchat @maxmathforum hmm you've made me think if what we call transfer of skills is just transfer of knowledge sometimes ...
Mon Jun 13 19:56:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362843995774977 - #60

@mathfour @jmclean77 What is engaging and curious is kinda like what is humorous different for different people. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:56:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80362891995385856 - #61

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

@mathfour @jmclean77 I hate problem solving. I'll do it. I'll teach it. But I'd much rather see how equations can be messed with. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:57:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363080177025024 - #62

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum A 'good' question (I prefer appropriate) in maths is "What if..." That may be less acceptable in history than ...? #mathchat hat
Mon Jun 13 19:57:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363117405679616 - #63

@jmclean77 @mathfour oh very true, but the teacher still has to provide the opportunity to the class and, in doing so, reach some. Agree? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:57:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363189799358464 - #64

@MrHonner @maxmathforum If you can ask a good q in math, one that gets to the heart of the matter immediately, that can be applied anywhere. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:58:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363319214608384 - #65

@mathfour @maxmathforum I totally don't get what you typed there about the good question asking thing. Help. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:58:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363362147512320 - #66

@jmclean77 @mathfour I agree with your point, but I found that when i spent that day with @ddmeyer, we can change how we deliver lessons... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:58:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363438215401472 - #67

@maxmathforum @mathfour @jmclean77 why isn't messing with equations problem problemsolving? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:58:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363476828172288 - #68

@jmclean77 @mathfour and find ways to engage learners regardless of the topic. Maybe wishful thinking but he had me convinced #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:59:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363562907865088 - #69

@mathfour @jmclean77 Yes - and the opportunity that the teacher presents will be ba based on his/her own curiosities. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:59:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363569287409664 - #70

@jmclean77 @mathfour don't agree with you there, when I prepare a lesson I try (and maybe fail) to predict what would engage my stdnts not me #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 19:59:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363795393953792 - #71

@ColinTGraham @Janshs @maxmathforum I tend to think deeper thinkers are actually transferring cognitive process, rather than 'skills'/knowledge #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:00:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363843406143489 - #72

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum if it's about developing a sound method then qual or quant might be proved #mathchat but .....
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 20:00:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80363880852897792 - #73

@maxmathforum @mathfour we're wondering if math teachers critical thinking. I'm suggesting that critical thinking skills in math may not transfr #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:00:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364010490429441 - #74

@mathfour @jmclean77 I gotta present what makes me so excited I'm gonna we my wet pants. The energy is contagious. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:01:00 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364064278196224 - #75

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum ..... Do other subjects help in the same way as maths to develop logic, speculation, reflection? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:01:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364111795453952 - #76

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum ..... Do other subjects help in the same way as maths to develop logic, speculation, reflection? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:01:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364111795453952 - #77

@jmclean77 @mathfour haha that is awesome, I get that. #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 20:01:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364221023526912 - #78

@mathfour @maxmathforum @jmclean77 It is. Messing with equations is very problem solving - especially when you take of the "right way" stigm #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:01:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364268196872192 - #79

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum how do you feel maths curriculum helps with that process? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:02:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364403119239168 - #80

@mathfour @maxmathforum Critical thinking skills in math transfer to everything.#mathchat

Mon Jun 13 20:02:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364426267602944 - #82

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @mathfour The transferable aspect is maybe what is required for thinking to be considered "critical" in subjec subjects... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:02:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364564549603328 - #83

@maxmathforum @mrhonner hard to separate cognitive process from domain persistence seems universal yet i persist mathematically, don't musically #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:03:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364604001226752 - #84

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @mathfour For example, 'tradition mathematical 'traditional' proof is based on reasoned logical deduction... anything else is 'demo' #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:03:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364753268117504 - #85

@mathfour @maxmathforum You create new brain passages/rivers by thinking in all sorts of ways. It is creating that place outside the box. #mathchat
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 20:03:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364768464084992 - #86

@maxmathforum @mathfour prove it! #mathchat (can't decide if this tweet is ironic or not)
Mon Jun 13 20:03:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364795370536962 - #87

@mathfour Once you think in ways you wouldn't normally think, you've made a path in your brain so you can go out of the box whenever #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:04:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80364973133545472 - #88

@mathfour @maxmathforum No irony here, all passion. #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 20:05:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365094441193472 - #89

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @mrhonner With experience of both, at higher level (I hope!), music tends to emotional expression for performers #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:05:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365138175213568 - #90

@Janshs @CafeRico just wondering if you have noticed #mathchat might be of interest to you
Mon Jun 13 20:05:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365295537094656 - #91

@MrHonner @maxmathforum I'm not sure what you are saying there. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:05:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365316558946304 - #92

@MrHonner @maxmathforum I'm not sure what you are saying there. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:05:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365316558946304 - #93

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @mrhonner Musicology, though, tends to become very analytic and mathematical in appearance, though... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:06:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365327212494848 - #94

@mathfour @maxmathforum I teach math as if they'll never use it - they only use the pathways for other things. And I tell them that. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:06:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365359688986624 - #95

@maxmathforum @mathfour I meant my post was ironic. I want you to use proof and yet I'm saying math skills (like proving stuff) don't transfer #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:06:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365363128311808 - #96

@mathfour @jmclean77 Most of the time they think I'm nuts, but they still get excited. #mathc hat
Mon Jun 13 20:07:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365607568154624 - #97

@maxmathforum #mathchat I mean that I didn't learn how to persist from doing hard math problems persistently. The skill doesn't transfer to learning piano tly.
Mon Jun 13 20:07:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365612391608320 - #98

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Math and music are both fund. about understanding the rules, whether following them or breaking them. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:07:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 8036568072940339 - #100 80365680729403392

@mathfour @maxmathforum Sorry - sarcaso-meter is down today. Trying to work the meter day-job and do this too. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:07:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365732474519552 - #101

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @mathfour So being able to analyse the logical fallacies in argument during a debate is not transferred maths skill? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:07:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365734307434496 - #102

@jmclean77 @mathfour well with that motivation I can see why they get so exci excited #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:07:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365807028289536 - #103

@maxmathforum #mathchat I think we can teach kids how to transfer skills and concepts, but I'm not convinced we become more logical thinkers by doing math
Mon Jun 13 20:08:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365836543590400 - #104

@mathfour @MrHonner @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum So is learning a language! :D #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 20:08:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365920039612416 - #105

@maxmathforum #mathchat unless we are helped to reflect and see the relevance of cognitive skills across domains
Mon Jun 13 20:08:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80365933901783042 - #106

@NatBanting #mathchat I need your opinions. Do cheatsheets help students in grade 11 math? #math #edchat #mathed
Mon Jun 13 20:08:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366060875943937 - #107

@mathfour @jmclean77 And still there are many I don't reach. Probably because they clean77 need your & @dydan's methods. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:09:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366084028506112 - #108

@mathfour @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Yes - debate is math. (The reason most math profs go off to law school as a retirement project) #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:09:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366321740681216 - #109

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum I don't think being able to think 'logically' is necessarily a 'deep' skill... evaluation/judgment/justification...? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:10:00 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366327319105536 - #110

@MrHonner @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Musical exploration is aki to math. expl.akin -play, find patterns, make rules, deviate, reflect, repeat #mathchat play,
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 20:10:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366459963965440 - #111

@mathfour @NatBanting Depends on all the other stuff around those "cheat sheets" and what they have on them and how you're teaching... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:10:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366471976464384 - #112

@maxmathforum @ColinTGraham @mathfour not sure. there's cntnt knwlg involved and knwlg of what counts as rigor. r all mathematicians gd at it? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:10:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366486975299584 - #113

@mathfour @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Depends on how many logical steps you gotta take from one place to another. #mathchat om
Mon Jun 13 20:11:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366610862440448 - #114

@ColinTGraham I think too many people also ignore the second dimension of cognitive burden that was added in the revision of Bloom's taxonomy #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:12:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80366922264358912 - #115

@maxmathforum #mathchat recognizing need for proof, and maybe seeing bad logic if you've been trained in logic could transfer... But making args is hard!
Mon Jun 13 20:12:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367033358876672 - #116

@Janshs @maxmathforum reflection 1 of key attributes (avoiding skills or knowledge) IMO #mathchat do ss receive more guidance in this in maths?
Mon Jun 13 20:13:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367307318247425 - #117

@NatBanting @mathfour What "other Stuff" They could have rules, formulas, and examples. Basic. What are your thoughts? yes or no? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:13:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367320618369025 - #118

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum That's because it is the creative end of the scale scale... which relies on synthesis/evaluation not just regurgitation #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:14:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367421843709953 - #119

@mathfour @ColinTGraham second dimension of cognitive burden <= them's fightin' words, don'cha think!? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:14:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367485865558016 - #120

@Janshs @informed_edu or - does learning always come from a perturbations? (#mathchat )

Mon Jun 13 20:15:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367639733612544 - #122

@mathfour @NatBanting I always allow a "cheat sheet" in every single class. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:15:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367652865970176 - #123

@ColinTGraham @mathfour Yep! It's the meta thinking you referred to earlier! meta-thinking Knowledge = low level, How do I know I know... meta meta-knowledge! #mathchat
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 20:15:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367769861890048 - #124

@mathfour @NatBanting I say, "Anything on a 3"x5" notecard - formulas, Shakespeare or prayers" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:15:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367808298483713 - #125

@mathfour @ColinTGraham AH! Mathematical maturity. #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 20:16:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80367966268559361 - #126

@maxmathforum @ColinTGraham Thx! I think I recognize, from math training, good synthesis/evaluation in other domains but struggle to *do* it. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:17:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80368108677775360 - #127

@ColinTGraham @Janshs @informed_edu I always think learning happens "between" the experiences... lessons may be 'noticing' or 'experiencing' #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:18:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80368499075186688 - #128

@maxmathforum @colintgraham @mathfour ooh, meta thinking. Math is a window into meta-thinking. thinking about thinking. Being good at meta thinking transfers! #mathchat nking
Mon Jun 13 20:18:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80368520667467776 - #129

@maxmathforum #mathchat any domain in which meta-cognition is included explicitly cognition teachers thinking skills and transfers well. Math doesn't have monopoly
Mon Jun 13 20:19:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80368752838983681 - #131

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @mathfour But again, the burden of "meta ..." at "metavarious cognitive levels may be higher than t next level #mathchat the
Mon Jun 13 20:20:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80368903238324224 - #132

@Janshs @informed_edu @colintgraham I like that "shaking them up to cement them" #mathchat nice
Mon Jun 13 20:21:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 8036926654 80369266544738304 - #133

@ColinTGraham @informed_edu @Janshs reconnection and re experiencing of existing re-experiencing 'facts' etc. perturbation is always a good thing <evil laugh> #mathchat lways
Mon Jun 13 20:21:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80369335541039104 - #134

@ColinTGraham @ColinTGraham @informed_edu That's largely what I'm doing for my presentation at #TMThink on Wednesday... making (re (re)connections #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:23:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80369632334196736 - #135

@informed_edu @ColinTGraham @Janshs The perturbation is the most powerful (and initially uncomfortable) bit... "Huh? But... Aha!" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:23:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80369644577366016 - #136

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Don't think any of us is comfortable in claiming a mathematical monopoly, however may be best developed in maths? #mathchat
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 20:23:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80369830829637633 - #137

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @informed_edu always remember when my tutor said the penny dropped for me (was about 40 yo!) was about metacognition #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:24:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370028779802624 - #138

@ColinTGraham @informed_edu @Janshs Equally important, but often overlooked, in terms of thinking is the "Doh!" moment... the 'anti Aha! #mathchat 'anti-'
Mon Jun 13 20:25:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370179195944961 - #139

@Janshs @informed_edu @colintgraham yes! I sometimes get ss to actually write aha! At appropriate time I'm the margin #mathchat opriate
Mon Jun 13 20:25:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370254269779968 - #140

@maxmathforum @ColinTGraham why best developed in maths? why not reading & writing? Or scientific method? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:26:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370373727752192 - #141

@Janshs @ColinTGraham : #mathchat :-)

Mon Jun 13 20:26:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370400432898048 - #142

@informed_edu @ColinTGraham @Janshs It strains every teacherly bone in my body to not jump in when they say "Doh!". So hard! #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:27:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370687423942656 - #143

@Janshs @maxmathforum @colintgraham I cannot help thinking linguistics might be similar? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:27:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370765270228992 - #144

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Maths is about noticing and comparing patterns, @maxmathforum communicating abstraction, so maybe 'best suited' to application #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:27:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80370812321927 80370812321927168 - #145

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum I see it more as a purposeful application of metacognition... analysis is perceived as being a part of mathematics. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:28:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371083630493696 - #146

@delta_dc Agreed! >> RT @Janshs: @maxmathforum @colintgraham I cannot help thinking linguistics might be similar? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:29:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371198889951232 - #147

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum The fact that Paul McCartney may not be able analyse a symphony by Beethoven does not impede his musicianship or...? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:30:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371370680266753 - #148

@docdcc @ColinTGraham @maxmathforum Back to Skemp. Mathematics as discipline relates to metacognition. Math as subject typically does not. #mathchat
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 20:30:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371548854292481 - #149

@maxmathforum Numbers are the other language besides language that we express ourselves in. But science, anthro, etc. are also ways to analyze #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:30:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371604714029056 - #150

@ColinTGraham So, once again, we are successfully skirting around defining what we see as "deeper thinking"... any takers? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:31:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371657646161920 - #151

@ColinTGraham @docdcc @maxmathforum My feeling too... a totally missed opportunity in the way that mathematics is approached and taught... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:32:27 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80371976572649473 - #152

@ColinTGraham @informed_edu @Janshs The "Doh!" is often a big part of Martin @Janshs Gardner-like puzzles... finding the 'trick' or cognitive shortcut #mathchat like
Mon Jun 13 20:33:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372325815566336 - #153

@delta_dc @ColinTGraham Would it help to consider people we think of as deep thinkers and explain why? #Mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:33:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372347638513664 - #154

@maxmathforum @ColinTGraham @docdcc a missed opportunity in the way *school* is taught. Y not make every subject about learning & metacognition? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:34:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372417331077121 - #155

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum @docdcc Part of what Edward deBono was trying to do in getting thinking put onto school curricula. #mathchat etting
Mon Jun 13 20:34:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372600366313473 - #156

@Janshs @ColinTGraham well is it simply learning to learn? #mathchat & does maths engender that or does it help to dev develop ppl who will be prone to?
Mon Jun 13 20:34:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372612231999488 - #157

@Janshs @delta_dc @maxmathforum @colintgraham finding patterns? Maths? @maxmathforum Linguistics? Other? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:35:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372819212509184 - #158

@informed_edu @Janshs @ColinTGraham I guess it's about striking the balance between training the builder and giving him/her more bricks... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:36:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80372929363312641 - #159

@Janshs @ColinTGraham @informed_edu can you have a "doh aha!" moment?! "doh-aha!" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:36:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373038067093504 - #160

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

@ColinTGraham @Janshs I don't think it's as easy as that... eg licensed to drive a car... does it make me a good driver? Do I continue learning? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:36:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373056001933312 - #161

@Janshs @ColinTGraham absolutely! Yes! So how do we encourage desire to keep on learning? Is that the deep skill? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:37:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373355945005056 - #163

@ColinTGraham @Janshs @informed_edu The doh-aha! is the ideal... or the aha aha! aha-doh! where you recognize something you should have known & 'forgot' #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:38:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373379219202048 - #164

@maxmathforum #mathchat maybe what makes math so good fo learning 2 learn is that for it's so miserable to be forced to do math w/out being supportd to think
Mon Jun 13 20:38:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373545795989505 - #165

@delta_dc Deep thinkers are metacognitive, able to make connections, consider possibilities, create something new ... am I getting close? #Mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:38:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373558802513920 - #166

@informed_edu @ColinTGraham @Janshs Is the perfect lesson "Aha! Doh! Hmm... Aha! lesson Doh! Hmmm... Aha! Doh!"... etc? #mathchat :)
Mon Jun 13 20:38:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373603236974592 - #167

@ColinTGraham Knowing when to stop, maybe? RT @cherraolthof: Not going with the obvious. Making decisions based on critical thought & analysis? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:38:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80373609973035008 - #168

@Janshs @informed_edu @colintgraham hehe I love it : #mathchat :-)

Mon Jun 13 20:40:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80374066929868800 - #169

@informed_edu @kalinski1970 Me too. I need to start teaching more metacognition and strategies-for-struggling-successfully, I think. #mathchat successfully,
Mon Jun 13 20:41:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80374140619599873 - #170

@ColinTGraham @maxmathforum As so much of mathematics as a discipline is based on thinking ... we do Ss a dis-service if we don't support theirs #mathchat service
Mon Jun 13 20:41:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80374154129448 80374154129448961 - #171

@ColinTGraham @delta_dc I think there is a lot of evaluation, judgment, comparison, noticing, etc. tied in with that too. Awareness of limits #Mathchat t
Mon Jun 13 20:42:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80374534401818624 - #172

@informed_edu Do we need maths textbooks that are more than lists of repetitive questions? Or do we just need to use them better? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:44:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80374904213606402 - #174

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

@ColinTGraham How much more important is it going to be to develop deeper (critical) thinking skills as more 'knowledge/fact' appears online? #Mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:44:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80375017950552064 - #175

@mathfour Crumb - what'd I miss? #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 20:45:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80375159357308928 - #176

@ColinTGraham @informed_edu Do we need to rethink what the textbook is for, too too? Does it have a 'life' in its present form? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:45:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80375180131704833 - #177

@ColinTGraham @mathfour The cheerleaders and the rodeo clown... ; #mathchat ;-)
Mon Jun 13 20:45:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80375309018472448 - #178

@ColinTGraham @Janshs For me the deeper skill is expanding cognitive awareness across everything... eg Paul McCartney is studying orchestration. #mathchat ..
Mon Jun 13 20:46:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80375614426722304 - #179

@earlsamuelson @ColinTGraham .....could deeper thinking involve applying known theory to "real world" applications? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:47:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80375799408107520 - #180

@ColinTGraham @earlsamuelson Knowing when to apply is 'higher' (in Bloom's apply taxonomy) than just applying or understanding or knowing... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:48:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80376127658541056 - #181

@Janshs @ColinTGraham so is it that maths enables us to encourage that cross disciplinary skill or develops ppl who can? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:50:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80376593985445888 - #183

@ColinTGraham @Janshs Ah, that is the question, Jan! For me, I don't think we teach enough thinking about anything in any subject.... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:52:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80376927944310784 - #184

@ColinTGraham @Janshs What mathematics gives us is a platform where teaching analysis, comparison, evaluation, etc. "makes sense" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:52:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80377119770812416 - #185

@ColinTGraham @Janshs For example, I'm not sure that analysing characters in Shakespeare plays will necessarily 'improve' audience experience... #mathchat re
Mon Jun 13 20:54:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80377586294853633 - #186

@ColinTGraham @Janshs However, if I want to perform Shakespeare, then maybe being able to analyse characters in dramas *is* important #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:55:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80377831951044608 - #187

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

@informed_edu I wonder if a greater emphasis on stats wouldn't help encourage a critical onder stance through maths? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:56:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378045554372609 - #188

@ColinTGraham @Janshs Whereas, analysing the steps in a mathematical proof for 'soundness' or validity is 'perfectly natural' [purposeful] #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:56:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378117243416577 - #189

@earlsamuelson True RT @ColinTGraham Knowing when to apply is 'higher' (in Bloom's taxonomy) than just applying or understanding or knowing... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:57:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378253503770624 - #190

@Janshs @ColinTGraham interesting; in a dance cover lesson today we had to watch video & analyse choreo - I thought I did rather well :) #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:57:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378388400967680 - #191

@ColinTGraham @informed_edu Ah, now, as a statistician, I suppose, at heart... I have to declare a (somewhat skewed) bias in favour of that! #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:58:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378456415809536 - #192

@Janshs @ColinTGraham back to research skill perhaps then (qual or quant) .... Hmmm thinking #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:58:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378616457867264 - #193

@ColinTGraham @earlsamuelson The same is true of knowing "what to apply" and may be more difficult for many than knowing "when" #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:59:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378684363653120 - #194

@Janshs RT @informed_edu: I wonder if a greater emphasis on stats wouldn't help encourage a critical stance through maths? #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 20:59:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378739480985600 - #195

@Rolfster @informed_edu I'm an Assistant Head and Head of maths and I can honestly say I haven't used a textbook years. #mathchat sed
Mon Jun 13 20:59:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378757831073793 - #196geo info: Point - lat = 51.42201013 - long = -0.1946497

@ColinTGraham @Janshs If you want to preserve performing arts or pass on a particular production, then you need to develop notations (symbols) #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 21:00:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378938303586305 - #197

@Janshs @informed_edu interesting q #mathchat I sometimes think probability is 1 of most creative aspects of maths
Mon Jun 13 21:00:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378972935954432 - #198

@Janshs @informed_edu interesting q #mathchat I sometimes think probability is 1 of most creative aspects of maths
Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)

Mon Jun 13 21:00:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80378972935954432 - #199

@ColinTGraham @Janshs @informed_edu With a 99.9% certainty? ; #mathchat ;-P

Mon Jun 13 21:00:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80379145372172288 - #200

@Janshs @ColinTGraham hehe it's about trust and belief though isn't it? ; #mathchat ;-)
Mon Jun 13 21:02:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80379536956592128 - #201

@earlsamuelson cont) and may be more difficult for many than knowing "when" than #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 21:02:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80379598537375744 - #202

@earlsamuelson #mathchat Project scenarios are helpful with this.....to some extent RT @ColinTGraham The same is true of knowing "what to apply" (cont
Mon Jun 13 21:02:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80379605260840961 - #203

@ColinTGraham OK people, that's it for another #mathchat (probably) Thank you all for making us think! ;-) Vote for next topic here: http://bit.ly/e72g8r )
Mon Jun 13 21:02:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80379652425793536 - #204

@ColinTGraham Watch out for #TMThink on Wednesday: http://bit.ly/gKl6ih if you want to brush up on thinking, I'm one of the presenters! #Mathchat
Mon Jun 13 21:03:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80379912661377024 - #205

@mathfour I agree. RT @ColinTGraham: I dont think we teach enough thi thinking about anything in any subject.... #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 21:04:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80380025735610370 - #206

@Janshs RT @ColinTGraham: OK people, that's it for another #mathchat (probably) Thank you all for making us think! ; Vote for next topic here ... ;-)
Mon Jun 13 21:05:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80380392821104640 - #207

@mathfour @ColinTGraham Oooo! Can I plug @MariaDroujkova's MathFuture? I'm Can going to present on August 3. #mathchat
Mon Jun 13 21:06:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80380560110919680 - #208

@mathfour @ColinTGraham Thanks for hosting! #mathchat

Mon Jun 13 21:06:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80380650988908544 - #209

@informed_edu I crashed the end of a very interesting #mathchat I shall try and be a #mathchat. more regular participant. Thanks everyone
Mon Jun 13 21:07:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80380739690037248 - #210

@ColinTGraham @informed_edu Thanks for joining us Dave. #mathchat it's not just for Mondays... ;-)
Mon Jun 13 21:08:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 80380927158665216 - #211

Monday, 13th June 2011Is mathematics unique in the curriculum for the deeper thinking skills it develops? (follow Is (follow-up)