INTERVIEW WITH ARNALDO OTEGI. PUBLISHED IN GARA, JUNE 19TH, 2011. [http://www.gara.

net/paperezkoa/20110619/273532/es/El-tiempo-corre-nuestro-favor-seguiracumulando-fuerzas-es-importante]

(Interview conducted by GARA, translation by Darrin Wood. Any errors are on the part of the translator).

Several months have passed since your last interview. What do you make of how things have evolved since then? Before making a general recap in political terms, I would like to highlight and evaluate the capacity and maturity spent by the nationalist left, that even in extreme conditions, has been able to fundamentally review its strategy in line with the needs that the process of national and social liberation in this historical phase. It has also maintained unity and cohesion in the face of a few states that have tried to neutralize it by all means, weaken and even break it, which have failed. This is a battle we're winning against the state. In political terms, my bottom line is that our change of strategy has broken the deadlocked agenda that the state handled with absolute comfort. Today, the sovereign leftist independence movement sets the political agenda in Euskal Herria. Just compare our situation three years ago with the present to corroborate not only the scope of our progress, but the liberating potential of our new strategy. We have exponentially increased popular participation in the mass struggle, we have stabilized strategic alliances with other popular sectors, we have changed the balance of forces, we have engaged the international community in resolving the political conflict, we have regained our credibility with our people, and in just a few years we have placed the Independent left as the second political force in Southern Euskal Herria, with more than 310,000 votes. This only reinforces our confidence in the path taken, remembering that it will be long, hard and difficult. And as for the Spanish state, we see that its legitimacy has weakened and that it has increasing difficulty in maintaining a position of immobility. Madrid still has a blocking strategy. How do you evaluate it and what can be done to overcome it? I want to reiterate something: the state will change its repressive strategy only when it will generate more costs (in political terms, public opinion ...) than benefits. It's a matter of credibility and power relationships. In this sense, the battle for the legalization of Sortu or the presence of Bildu in the election I think is relevant in terms of political pedagogy. Why has Bildu finally been able to be present? Because there was a cascade of accessions and declarations from different sectors for Bildu, so that the pressure at all levels was unsustainable, even for areas of the judiciary. In this sense, it was a battle that was a step ahead of the Basque popular majority against the most reactionary sectors of the state.

From this we can draw a clear conclusion for the future: with organization, with great force, loyalty and cohesion with the Basque society, with popular mobilization in parameters of democratic confrontation, we can win new battles in the future. And we will win. What is your assessment of Bildus results? The results were historic. The left-independence movement now occupies the central line in the Basque political space. These results have led to a veritable political earthquake. On the one hand they show the absolute falsehood and weakness of those arguments that seek to convey the idea of our weakness and even political defeat. On the other hand lay bare the true nature of virtual reality pacts passed PSE or PP-PP-UPN-PSN.

What are the reasons for the electoral success of independence? There are different reasons, but I think there is a structural and fundamental: the Basque people have wished to convey a massive, loud and clear support for a strategy that develops ways and exclusively peaceful and democratic channels. I would like to emphasize one thing: not the Basque people who have connected with the nationalist left, but it is we who have come to connect to a widespread desire of the majority in the independence movement to replace the previous strategy of confrontation by betting on democratic means. There are other factors: the amount of Bildus effort in gathering forces, the depletion of a policy management model subject to the interests of economic elites, the search and need for an alternative social model ... All these factors have undoubtedly contributed to the success of the independence of electoral left. What will happen now? Do you believe Bildu will be able to govern in Guipuzcoa, for example? Let me first reflect on the subject of institutions. There are two things that should fill us with revolutionary pride. First, the commendable work of the thousands of men and women of the nationalist left in the institutions over the past 40 years have demonstrated our honesty and commitment to the people. We were never involved in cases of public financial scandals, and secondly, I want to highlight the nervousness detected in certain economic and political elites, that are only due to one reason: they know that we will not roll over for their interests, but for all of Basque society. Otherwise, I would re-emphasize something that has been and is a watchword for the nationalist left in regard to the institutional work. Institutions also are a tool and not an end in itself. The goal is not to manage the institutions, but to do so in the service of the social and political change demanded by the nationalist left-wing people, and doing right with the participation of the economic, social and union organizations.

Youve often talked of the inevitability of a "second transition" in the Spanish State. How does this matter today?

Time is proving us right. Today everyone is aware of the need to overhaul the reform model built after Franco. And the economic crisis has not only sharpened the need, but is now not only an economic crisis but a political crisis, a crisis of the territorial model, a crisis of the rule of law, of democracy ... This tells us that we are approaching a bottleneck that this second transition is indeed inevitable.

Does the State have the will to deal with this "second transition" in a democratic way? Its not a problem of will, it is a problem of the balance of power. Did the State have the will for Bildu to participate in the elections? Obviously not, but it had articulated a correlation of forces favorable to legalization ... I think we should draw a lesson for the future from this fact and stated in terms of intellectual reflection. Block out all those who have opposed the legalization of Sortu or Bildu: PP, PSOE sectors, media, police unions ... they are the ones who are opposed to a real democratization of the Spanish State. And on the other side put all the sectors that have been in favor of legalization: sectors of the PSOE, PSC, PCE and IU, CiU, PNV, ERC, BNG, Izquierda Castellana, Red Current ... there are other sectors that are interested in the development of a genuine democratic transition in the state. What do you think of the May 15th Movement (15-M)? The question to be asked is why it has arisen in this context. There is no doubt that the brutal economic crisis is at the origin, but the request and requirement (which we share absolutely) in a real democracy, that is participatory, popular and policy which is imposed on markets beyond a conjunctural response and requires a revision of the structural model of the transition.

The democratic process is a key concept behind the initiative of the nationalist left. What stage do you believe it is in? We engaged in a unilateral phase, to the extent that the advances made are the result of our decisions and initiatives, and not the result of any agreement with the state. The objectives of this first phase have been defined by the Declaration of Gernika: legalization and what we might define as a phase of humanization of the conflict (sick prisoners, dispersion, special laws, etc.) as part of a unilateral, indefinite and verifiable ceasefire declared by ETA. We must continue developing initiatives by adding forces and mobilizing around Gernika, towards a scenario of non-violence with guarantees and political normalization. And also go gradually involving the international community in resolving the conflict. Clearly we still have to keep adding initiatives for the normalization of politics.

Viewing the State's position, is it plausible to think now about the negotiation of a framework that would be democratic or would that come at a later stage? We must start from the basis that today we do not have a relationship of sufficient strength to

force the state to recognize and respect a democratic framework for Euskal Herria. Building and articulating this balance of power is our goal, and the new strategy in just a few months has improved our relationship with the government forces (in terms of Basque public opinion or international law, electoral or ideological terms ...). Although we have not yet reached the degree of sufficiency necessary to agree on the agenda defined in the Agreement of Gernika, the political time is on our side, we are becoming stronger and stronger. In this context, the political negotiations around a democratic framework must understand a key strategic pulse. What is important is that further progress is made in the accumulation of forces towards sovereignty and independence. What steps should Arnaldo Otegi take now? In regard to the nationalist left, I consider a priority the task of conquering a legal instrument that allows us to organize and structure the most advanced and combative sectors of the Basque working people. And also, I think that is an unavoidable task for us to devote the necessary time to inform, compare, discuss and share our broad social and activist base all the steps and initiatives that we adopt. That seems essential. As for the release process, in addition to daily tasks and the development of our own political line, we need to continue joining forces in both tactical and strategic terms. Thus, in the field of Euskal Herria we must expand the range of our strategic alliance by adding more forces (such as Aralar, AB, NaBai) to the sovereign left block, in every moment avoiding positions of contempt and prioritizing the interests of Euskal Herria above any other consideration. We must open doors to gather up sovereign and leftist forces.

How do you overcome resistance from the state to launch a process of conflict resolution? As part of Euskal Herria we have to build a great deal of democratic tactical character with those stakeholders in a democratic solution to the conflict. I am referring to a great deal of historic compromise, which I think will fit all political cultures (not only political forces) who understand that Euskal Herria is a nation and respect the right of Basque citizens to freely and democratically decide their future without any limitation or interference. Today it is a historic compromise, because we are again on the verge of a transition in the Spanish State, with one big difference from the first is that the state has no policy to offer Euskal Herria: only repression, less autonomy, cuts in social rights... How do you take into account a future triumph of the PP in the development of this process? First of all, our commitment to a peaceful and democratic strategy is irreversible. And a substantial value of it is that their development does not depend on the will of the ruler in the state, although it is clearly not possible to "close" the democratic process without any bilateral or multilateral agreements with the state. We simply say that whoever is in the Spanish government has a huge opportunity. Now it

is possible that both the PSOE and the PP intend to maintain a stalemate or extension of situations arising from the conflict (prisoners, banning, lawsuits ...). Given that, what do I say? That the more obstinate state repression and blocking is, the more Basque society will be in search of a democratic mass more sovereign pro-independence.

Are alliances possible at the state and even international levels? As I said before, I think we reached a tactical agreement with all political forces that have an interest in promoting a democratic transition in the Spanish State. I mean both the political forces and state historical nationalities and all the leftist forces, always on a democratization program that recognizes the multinational state and the right to selfdetermination of Euskal Herria, Catalonia and Galicia. Internationally, outside the states, our foreign policy should aim at forming tactical alliances with all sectors interested in supporting a democratic, negotiated solution to the conflict between Euskal Herria and the states on the one hand, and we start building a strategic alliance with those parties and even states that share our strategic objectives. Another question, what is the role of the Collective of Basque Political Prisoners now? The Collective has opened up channels of communication with the signers of the Declaration of Gernika. From my point of view, the collective must commit to that statement and stick to it. How can we get moving to the states on this issue? Clearly there is a lot of resistance ... Just remember the preamble of the "first transition". On this topic, I have the firm belief that we need to build a popular movement for the freedom of prisoners that is massive and plural. With a simple and clear objective: the new cycle requires overcoming the consequences of conflict and therefore the release of all prisoners, the return of the repressed everyone.... This is a reasonable demand and a necessary condition to stabilize a framework for peace and democratic normalization.

In this context how will the case against you for the "Bateragune case" develop? What is your opinion? Our arrest was aimed at aborting debate and the consequent change in strategy by the nationalist left. "They built" a story that accused us and then they imprisoned us. In these two years they have tried to keep this story, which is essentially to deny the development of the strategy of the nationalist left and declare that everything is part of a plan by ETA. And while the real hoax is becoming increasingly difficult to sustain (even in the Supreme and Constitutional Court division says that already), they will try again. The question is why? Because despite the vaunted slogan "votes or bombs," the State is not interested in any change of strategy led by the nationalist left, because our irreversible commitment to democratic political means lays bare the untenable position of the State . So this

trial merely transferred criminal space, and will become probably one of the last judicial scenarios where different sectors of the State will re-develop a political-judicial battle (similar to that of Sortu and Bildu). On one side are those who try to settle a hypothetical sentence the thesis of "everything is ETA" opening the doors in the future to further aggression against the process, and the other of which will return to defend the need is now the State which must readjust their strategy and make an exclusive commitment to democratic and political means. It is absolutely necessary to articulate a response and mobilization similar to that presented by Bildu because, beyond the acquittal, it is not what is at stake, but to create the hope that shelters the political, social and economic aspects of this country. In this sense, it is very important how Basque society is facing this trial. And the position of ETA, How do you evaluate that now? Both the general and permanent cease-fire and the willingness for verification is sufficient to perceive the will of ETA, like the letter that was sent to business organizations. I think they are indicators, and also guarantees that ETA has the will for a process that leads to a solution to the conflict. Want to add something else? Just to congratulate the people of the nationalist left-wing for their electoral success on May 22nd, and also the Scottish and Irish independence movements, who have also reaped great results. And, why not? embrace the people of Peru, which have just turned the will of the people to the side who want to build socialism for the XXI century. And the nationalist left, keep your spirits up: to the Basque working people, organization and struggle, and everyone, above all, smile, we will fight and we will win.