A Grieving J&J Employee And Cubicle Photos // Pharmalot

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Pharmalot.com

Grieving J&J Employee And Cubicle Photos

By Ed Silverman // September 6th, 2011 // 7:03 am

63 Comments

In2003,CeceliaMavicaIngraham,anadministrativeassistantinamarketing departmentatJohnson&JohnsonsOrthoMcNeilPharmaceuticalunit, learnedthatherteenageddaughterhadacutelymphocyticleukemia.ByMay 2005,herdaughterhadpassedaway,butaproblemaroseintheworkplace forsome18months,Ingrahamcontinuedtoopenlygrieve,anddisplayed photosandherdaughtersballetslippersinhercubicle,allegedlymakingsome coworkersuncomfortable. AndsotheheadofherdepartmentmetwithIngrahamtosaythatseveralcomplaintshadbeen lodgedandsothepicturesandslippershadtoberemoved,becausethecumulativeeffectwas disruptingtheworkplacetothepointwhereotherswouldtrytoavoidspeakingwithIngraham.And thedepartmenthead,CarlDeStefanis,toldhersheshouldnolongerspeakof(her)daughter becausesheisdead.Inresponse,sheaskedhimifwastellinghertoact(as)if(she)didnotexist. Andhesaidyes. Hetoldmethatspeakingofherandhavingherpicturesinmycubiclewasadisturbancetothe workenvironmentandalsothatswhypeopleavoidedme,accordingtocourtdocuments.You havetotakethosepicturesdownbecauseshesdead,yourdaughterisdead,anditbotherspeople. Theyhaveaproblemwithit.AndyoucannolongerspeakaboutherWhentheycometomy cubicletheyrebotheredbyit.Theyredisturbedbyherpicturesbecauseshesdeadandhekepton sayingthat.Again,Iwasinshock. Ingrahamleftworkthatafternooncryingandsobbing,andneverreturned.Overthenextfew days,shevisitedhercardiologistforheartpalpitationsandsubsequentlywastreatedwithan angioplastyprocedureandmedication.Shetookshorttermdisabilityleaveandeventuallyresigned fromherjob.ShelaterfiledalawsuitclaimingtheJ&Junitcausedhertosuffersevereemotional distress. Butlastweek,aNewJerseyappealscourtupheldanearlierdecisionbyastatecourttodismissthe lawsuit.AlthoughplaintiffsversionofthemeetingwouldallowthejurytoviewDeStefanisas insensitiveand,perhapsnegligentofplaintiffsvulnerabilityinhercontinuingbereavement,the conductdescribeddoesnotmeettherequisitestandardtosupportaclaimofintentionalinfliction ofemotionaldistress,thepanelwrote. TheevidencewasnotsufficienttodemonstratethatDeStefanisactedintentionallyorrecklesslyto causehersevereemotionaldistress.Nothingintherecordwouldallowarationaljurytofindthat DeStefanisintendedtocauseplaintiffemotionaldistressHispurposewastoaddressaworkplace issueofefficiencyandcoworkerrelationships. Tosatisfytheelementofrecklessness,plaintiffmustprovethatdefendantactedindeliberate disregardofahighdegreeofprobabilitythatemotionaldistresswillfollowThereisnoquestion

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thatanyreasonableemployershouldknowthattellingagrievingmothernottotalkabouther deceaseddaughtermightcauseemotionaldistress,butaseverereactionwasnotariskthatone shouldpredict.Anemployerisnotchargedundertortlawwithadutytoavoidallemotionaldistress toemployees,onlysuchdistressthatisextreme,outrageous,and utterlyintolerableinacivilized community. Hereistheruling.

Comments

Kevin
September 6th, 2011 7:16 am

Absolutelyridiculous.Eveninherownstatement,sheonlydescribedthe managerbeingcoldandinsensitive,yetsheispullingtheemotional distresscard.Shedemandedtoknowwhothecomplainerswere,buther managerisnotobligatedtogivethesenamesout. Companiesareallowedtoregulatecubiclecontentsincetheyownthe property.Mostapplyareasonablenessstandardwhenitcomestocubicle decoration.Undersuchstandardacompromisecouldhavebeenreached.For example,youcanbuypictureframesthatareglazedinsuchawaythatyou canseethepictureifyouresittinginfrontofit,butapasserbycannot. SimilarprincipletoanLCDscreen. Unfortunatelythesethingswillcontinueaslongaswehaveamale dominatedpharmaculture.Caseinpoint,amaleemployeeinaprevious pharmacompanyhadafullsizedcopyofthefamousFarahFawcettpinup photo(seebelow)hunginhiscubicleforalltosee.Itmadesomeofthe femaleemployeesuncomfortable,andtherewerecomplaints,butwhileIwas theretheemployeewasneverrequiredtoremoveit. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0038YCY5O/ref=dp_image_0? ie=UTF8&n=1055398&s=homegarden

original industry insider

September 6th, 2011 9:42 am

Elmore
September 6th, 2011 9:44 am

Somuchforemotionalintelligenceintheworkplace.DoesJ&Jhavea requirementthatallphotosbeoflivepeople?Itseemstometheissuewasnt photos,butthefactthatthemotherhadbuiltakindofmemorialthatpeople felttheycouldntavoid. Itcouldallhavebeenhandledsomuchbetter.Shemighthavebeentoldthat whilehercoworkerssympathized,theyfeltuncomfortablewithhowoften conversationsturnedfromworktoherdaughterandthenmaybesuggest griefcounseling? Astothephotosandshoes,maybeputtheshoesinadrawer,whilekeeping thephotosout,ifeveryoneelsewasallowedphotos.

original industry insider

September 6th, 2011 10:18 am

Elmore,yousaiditright.APfizerfriendsaidthattheyarenowtaking trainingsessionsonddevelopingemotionalintelligence,whichisjust coroporatejargonforempathy.Moreover,EIissomethingyoueitherhaveor donthave,andcantbetaught.

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Steve_McQueen
September 6th, 2011 12:04 pm

CanyouimaginetryingtosueJ&JinNewJersey.Theyessentiallyownthe F*ckingState.Shedhavebeenbetteroffcomingtoworkwithabaseballbat andbeatingthelivingsh*toutofhersupervisor.Betteryetsheshouldhave justtakenanautomaticweaponandcompletelyleveledthewholefloor. Whatsnext?Suingadoctorforbringingyouthenewsthatyourlovedoneis sickordeadinacoldmanner?Wemightaswellbeginsuingcompaniesfor criticisminacoldandnonconstructivemanner. Kevin,yousirhaveseniormanagementwrittenalloveryou,domeafavor meetmeinmyofficelatertodayandwecangooveryourcredentialandtest youranusforpliability. Myinitialreactiontothiswasamixofutterdisgust(atthemanager)anda sneakingsensationthattherehadtobemuchmoretothestory.Ifyouread page3oftheruling,itseemsasthoughMsIngrahamwasconstantly instigatingconversationsaboutherdaughterandherdaughtersdeathwith hercoworkersmorethanayearafterthechildsdeath.Myguessisthatthe picturesandballetslipperswereprobablyusedastoolstobringupherchild andstartsdiscussionaboutherlosswithcoworkers(withthecoworkers feelingliketheywereacaptiveaudiencewhocouldnoteasilyescapeMs IngrahamorthetopicofherdaughteronceMsIngrahaminitiated discussion/reminiscingofherdaughter).Duetothetragiccircumstances(I cantimagineanythingasbadasthelossofachild)thecoworkersprobably didntstartvoicingcomplaintsuntilMsIngrahamsbehaviorcontinuedand escalated,insteadofsubsidingovertime.Thisisfarfromacaseofpeoplejust havingaproblemwithherhavingapictureandherdaughtersballetslippers atherdeskorheransweringquestionsaboutherfamily/daughter/howshe wasdoing.ItsoundsasthoughIngrahamsbehaviorwasdisruptiveandvery likelypathological. Whiletoomuchpersonalconversationofanytypeisdisruptiveinthe workplace,douchebagswillbedouchebags,andtheydontgetfired.Theyget promoted.IllbetthatDeStefanisisnowEVP. Agreewithcranky.J&JhasaverygenerousEmployeeAssistanceProgram. Thereisnoevidencethatshehadeventriedtousetheseservices,butrather preferredtoactoutusingtheballetslippersasprops.Ialsowonderhow productiveshewaswithconstantgriefevokingremindersofherdaughterall aroundherallthetime. Steve,yousoundlikeyoureadvocatingtheTheodoreStreleskimodeof conflictresolution.MrStreleskiwasamathgraduatestudentatStanford whofailedtogethisPhDafter19yearsoftrying.Frustratedandangryathis advisor,hetookasledgehammerintotheadvisorsofficeonemorningand beathisbrainstodeath.Storybelow:

Kevin
September 6th, 2011 12:19 pm

Steve_McQueen
September 6th, 2011 12:26 pm

ol cranky
September 6th, 2011 1:11 pm

ChicNotGeek
September 6th, 2011 1:43 pm

original industry insider

September 6th, 2011 2:25 pm

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Streleski Pharmergirl
September 6th, 2011 3:27 pm

IthinkCrankyisontosomething.Itsprettycreepythatthiswomanisstill openlygrievingsome18monthsafterthelossofherdaughter.Ibetitcould havebeensomesortofpathologicalploytomonopolizepeoplestime. Nowhavingsaidthat,whatescapesmeishowthisDeStafanischaracter permittedthistopersistforsofrigginglong.WhydidnthesuggesttheEAP forthiswoman,perhapsarrangeforaleaveofabsencetogetsomeinpatient care,SOMETHING.ANYTHING. Whenyouthinkaboutit,therestoftheofficestaffprobablyhasastronger caseagainstDeStafanisforfailingtomaintainaworkenvironmentthat fosteredproductivityandcohesivenessandallowedthistypeofdisruptionto festerandevolveintoatoxicandhostileenvironment.Iwonderhowmanyof workersstartedtakingxanaxafterthecurtainswentuponthedoomand gloompictureshowintheIngrahamCubicle.

marcia stone
September 6th, 2011 3:39 pm

Iworkedwithawomanwhodlostachildandnever,everletanyoneforget it.Everyconversationwasaboutthischildwhohadahearttransplantpaid forbythepharmaceuticalcompany. Theolderchildconstantlyactedout,evenscreamingatthemotherBecause ofyoumysisterdied!whenhedidntgethisway.Ifsomeoneavoidedherit wasbecauseheorshecoulddealwithherloss.Nottrue,itwasbecauseshe neverletup. Everyonehasgriefintheirlivesbutworkisnotgrouptherapyandthepeople youworkwitharenotyourfamily.Peopleshouldhavetimetogrievebutat somepointleaveithome.

Observant Earthling
September 6th, 2011 4:51 pm

Anothervoteforolcrankyregardinghis/hersuspicionsonthisissue, especiallyafterhavingworkedaroundsomeoneinthepastwhowasina situationverysimilartoMs.Ingrahams.Itgottothepointthatwenearly tiptoedaroundtheindividual,tryingnottodrawhis/herattentionandfor fearofbecomingentangledinlongwinded(andusuallytearful)memorials; talkaboutwalkingoneggshells! HeywhatdoIknowImjustadeadmoviestar.ButwhenIwasaliveInever caredmuchformanagement.InfactIneverlikedmostpeople.Impretty surethatStreleskiandIsharedabeeronceintheMissionDistrict. YeahEarthling.Everyoneinthecorporatesettingshouldremaincheerfuland productive.Ihopeshenevermissedworktocareforherkid.Imeanwhatthe hell.Wehavedrugstosellandnumberstomake. Steve,IguessoldTedbrokethemold.Thiswasfollowedinsuccessionbya masskillingatUniversityofIowabyanotheracademic.LikeEllisRedding

Steve_McQueen
September 6th, 2011 4:54 pm

Steve_McQueen
September 6th, 2011 4:56 pm

original industry insider

September 6th, 2011 6:30 pm

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saidinTheShawshankRedemptioneverymanhashisbreakingpoint.PS,I lovedyouinBullitt. http://articles.latimes.com/19920607/magazine/tm411_1_lugang original industry insider

September 6th, 2011 6:34 pm

Steve,Iwasjustthinking,maybeweshouldteethisoneupwiththe producersofTheOffice.WouldbeinterestingtoseehowMichaelScott wouldhandlethissituation.Anyideas? IlikeyourthinkinginsidermyguessisthatMichaelScottwouldinsistona catharticjourneythatwouldsomehowpurgethispoorwomansmisery.I envisionaweekendspentatDwightSchrutesfarmandperhapssome peyote.Itsworkedinthepast. Backtotheepisode Edwrites:Anemployerisnotchargedundertortlawwithadutytoavoidall emotionaldistresstoemployees,onlysuchdistressthatisextreme, outrageous,and utterlyintolerableinacivilizedcommunity. IsthisNewJerseylawspecifically? Anyway,Iassumeitsnotthedistressthatisutterlyintolerableinacivilized community,buttheprovokingaction. Imaskingmyselfwhatsortofactionswouldqualify.Imassumingactions likesexualharrassment,abusivebullying,orracistslurringarecoveredby otherlaws?Oristhisaquestionofcivilversuscriminal?

Steve_McQueen
September 6th, 2011 8:05 pm

Justice in MI
September 6th, 2011 9:54 pm

Steve_McQueen
September 6th, 2011 10:12 pm

Lawyersarenextonthelistofscumbagstobeguttedintherevolution.So justiceIsuggestyoustepbackandlettheregularAmericanssortthisout. Violenceandgoodhairaretheonlythisthatwillsaveusnow. OhEd,thisthreadisinneedofsomemoderation. ThanksOII,forthestoryonStreleski.Itwasfarmorefascinatingthan readingthecourtsopiniononJ&J. BTWOriginal,doyouactuallybelieveitsthemaledominationofculture thatstheproblem? Whatyoudescribedisjustasexistcontextforadifferentunderlying problem:selectiveenforcementofrules.Thatsortofthingisntlimitedby gender,andIcanassureyouthatthereareplentyoffemaleadministrators outsideofpharmawhoroutinelyexhibitsociopathicbehaviorfarworsethan that.

Mike S.
September 7th, 2011 1:43 am

yo
September 7th, 2011 7:45 am

Thereisalotmoretothisstorythanisexploredinthisblog.Thiswomandid indeedsufferagreatlossbutdidshethenreallyupsethercoworkersoverthe nextsixmonthssomuchsothatcomplaintswerelodgedagainsther?Read

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olcrankyspostaboveasheindicatesthereismuchmoretothisstory.So holdoffonjudgementsineitherdirection. ol cranky

September 7th, 2011 7:51 am

Nowhavingsaidthat,whatescapesmeishowthisDeStafanis characterpermittedthistopersistforsofrigginglong.Whydidnt hesuggesttheEAPforthiswoman,perhapsarrangeforaleaveof absencetogetsomeinpatientcare,SOMETHING.ANYTHING. @Pharmergirl assomeonewhosbeeninlinemanagement,IthinkIcan shedsomelightonthis.Tryingtohelpdirectreportsbymakingevenveiled suggestionsofanythingtheydonotwanttohearcanbeaverydangerous thingforamanagertodo.Italltoooftenresultsincomplaintsbeingfiled againstthelinemanagerandwaytoofewHRpeoplearewillingtorespond appropriatelybecausetheyjustdontwanttohavetolistentoit(theytoo oftentendtojustplacatewhoevercomplainsthemost/loudestinsteadof helpinguncoverthetruthofthesituationsoitcanberesolved appropriately).Agoodlinemanagerwhotriestointervene[appropriately]to helpanemployeeimproveperformanceorsuggestassistancetosomeone whoisobviouslyindistresscangetbeatenupbyHRwhenthatemployee complains.Weworkinaculturewhichallowssomeveryextremelevelsof entitlementanditcanbiteagoodmanagerwhowantstohelphis/herstaff growintheass.Thatbeingsaid,waytoomanymanagersprefertoallow unhealthyofficedynamicscontinueorgetworsebecausetheydontwantto interveneininterpersonalissuesnomatterhowdisruptivetheyaretothe office.

Howard
September 7th, 2011 8:26 am

Idliketothinkthat,ifthispoorwomanwasgrievinginappropriately(if thatsnotanoxymoron),thensomesensitiveprofessionalcounsellingwas required,asopposedtoanunempatheticsoundingbossplayingamateur psychiatrist.Idontunderestimatetheimportanceofbusinesstargetsbut someofusatleastarehumanbeings,notmachines. Tastefulandsensibledecorationwouldbemyguidingprinciple.Iwould submitthatifyourcubicleresemblestheVoodooShrineScenefromthe movieMajorLeague(seebelow)youveprobablygonetoofar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85i5CpyBv Q&feature=player_embedded#!

original industry insider

September 7th, 2011 9:05 am

Justice in MI
September 7th, 2011 12:32 pm

McQueenImnotalawyer,butIknowwhatstinks. ShameonOII,whohashumoredyour(shared)fascisticfantasies.He/shehas lostwhatinterestinhisviewsIhad. Seemstobemoresuchlunaticshere,whichwillultimatelybetheendof usefulparticipationonPharmalot. Shameonanyonewhoencouragesit.And,atacertainpoint,whodoesnot condemnit.

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Thisisseriousashell. Justice in MI
September 7th, 2011 12:43 pm

Ofcourse,itcouldbeanattemptatirony.Alsopitiful,butinadifferent way. Justice,trylighteningupabit.Ninetyfivepercentofmypostsontheseand otherthreadsareofaseriousnature.Thefactisthatwehaveanobviously pathologicallyactingoutemployee,whichissofaroutofthebellcurveof normalofficecomportmentthatthelawsuitislaughableonitsface. Howaboutsomeseriouscriticismonyourpartoftheplaintiffinthiscase whowaswastingthelegalsystemstime.Butthenagain,shewontbethe last.Myshrinkfriendsaregettingbusydealingwithequallyludicrouswork relatedstresscompcasesbroughtbysuchpeople.Theyknowhowto capitalizefinanciallyonalegitimateperiodofdifficultybyturininmgitinto shortandlongtermpsychiatricdisability(withcompensation,ofcourse), lawsuitsforinflictionofemotionaldistress,etc.Thereareevenchatyou cangotofakeadiagnosisofMajorDepressionwhengoingforyourshrink visittoputinyourclaimofPostTraumaticStressDisorderbecausetheboss mancrossedhiseyesatyouonetimeintheconferenceroom. YouwanttoknowwhytheAmericanworkplaceisgoingtohellina handbasket?Becausejustlikewedonttellofftheschoolyardbullyanymore, whichworkedgreatinthepast,wetieupthecourtsystemwiththingsthat couldberesolvedonaninterpersonallevel. Thatswhythestorywassoridiculous.Youacademicsreallyneedtogeta senseofhumor.

original industry insider

September 7th, 2011 1:22 pm

original industry insider

September 7th, 2011 1:51 pm

Crankyspointwassoonthemarkthatitbearsrepeating,for,asamanager Ivealsobeenbitteninthatanatomicalpartaftertryingtohelpfully intervene. Agoodlinemanagerwhotriestointervene[appropriately]tohelpan employeeimproveperformanceorsuggestassistancetosomeonewhois obviouslyindistresscangetbeatenupbyHRwhenthatemployee complains.Weworkinaculturewhichallowssomeveryextremelevelsof entitlementanditcanbiteagoodmanagerwhowantstohelphis/herstaff growintheass.Thatbeingsaid,waytoomanymanagersprefertoallow unhealthyofficedynamicscontinueorgetworsebecausetheydontwantto interveneininterpersonalissuesnomatterhowdisruptivetheyaretothe office. Iwouldsayamenbro,exceptasimilarlywordedsignwasrecentlyforcedto beremovedatasportingeventbecausdeitwasdeemedraciallyinsensitive.

Ed Silverman
September 7th, 2011 2:08 pm

HiFolks,

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Justaquicknotetoremindeveryonethatitwouldbeappreciatedifweall couldsticktothetopicand,importantly,useappropriatelanguage. Althoughsomemayhavemissedthisanalogy,inthepast,Ihavementioned thatthesiteshouldbeviewedasalargegardenparty,whereoneisfreeto mingleandflitamongdifferentgroups.Butusinginvectiveistheequivalent oftossingawineglassorchair. Thanks ed Justice in MI

September 7th, 2011 2:25 pm

OII, Wow.Alotofmyfriends(includingthosehere)wouldbesurprisedtoread youresuggestingasenseofhumorto_me_! Anyway,asfarastheplaintiff,Ihavenofriggingideawhatwasgoingon beyondwhathasbeenreported.Anyonewithoutsuchdirectknowledgeis purelyblowingwind. ThatswhyIaskedaboutthelawsomethingwecanactuallyknowabout.

Christopher
September 7th, 2011 2:32 pm

JiM, Ithinkyourfearsareunfounded.TherearethousandsofPharmalotreaders, onlyafractionofwhombothertocomment.Isuspectthatmostwillweed outandignoretheexhibitionists. Thisarticlecreatedgooddiscussiontoothough,aswellasthesideshowyou areconcernedabout. Ithinkitsunfortunatethattheindividualsconcernedarenamedand consequentlyjudgedinpublicutthatsthewayitgoes.Inthiscaseweare toldwhathappenedbutnothowithappened.Ithinkthe whatiscorrect andentirelyappropriate. HowitwasdoneremansunknownyetIthinkthat isakeyelement.Whetherknowingthe howwoulddiscouragesomeofthe moreextreme,anonymouscomments,Idoubtverymuch.

Christopher
September 7th, 2011 2:38 pm

OIIandCranky IagreewiththeriskbuthavebyinvolvingHRfirst(legal tooifnecessary) beforeintervening thereisasignificantlybetteroutcome. DependsonthequalityofyourHRpeopleandyourrelationshipbutifyoure alinemanageritmakessensetobepreparedbeforeyouarecalledontoact. Chris, Iappreciatewhatyousay.WhatIthinkwouldbehelpfulwhichmostfolks doisjusttoignoretheloonsratherthangetinthebintoplaywiththem. YourlastpointsoundslikewhatImeantaboveamoremodestappreciation ofwhatwedontknow.Butperhapsyouarerightthatsuggetingthattothe windis,well,suggestingittothewind.

Justice in MI
September 7th, 2011 2:39 pm

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Observant Earthling
September 7th, 2011 4:36 pm

@Steve_McQueen:TheincidentofwhichIspokewasactuallycontinuingat maximumintensityafter22months;sorry,Istillstandbyolcrankys thoughts. Ok,backtothetopic,asEdsuggested.Ihavespecificknowledgeofhow administrativelawjudgesworkintheStateofNewJersey,andhowworkers trytotakeadvantageofagenerousworkerscompensationprogramthrough physicalandmentaldisabilities.Thewaytheygamethesystemisthatthey knowthatthesejudges,asoverwhelmedbythesecasesandwilloftengrant sometypeoffinancialawardtotheplaintiffinordertoavoidlitigationand keepthecasesfromcloggingupthecourt. Thusanundservingplaintiffwithagoodlawyercangamethesystemtoget somekindofmonetaryaward.Thesystemiscorruptandneedstobe changed,butforanyonewhowonderswhythecostofdoingbusinessisso insanelyhighinthisstateIvejustgivenyouonereason.

original industry insider

September 7th, 2011 6:31 pm

original industry insider

September 7th, 2011 6:46 pm

Hereisanothertheory,whichtheabove35posters,includingmehave completelyoverlooked.Thisispurelyhypotheticalsincewedonthavethe patientsmedicalrecords. Notethatsoonaftertheincidentwiththemanagertheplaintiffcomplained ofpalpitationsandsubsequentlyhadanangioplasty.Iftheplaintiffhada historyofcoronaryarterydiseaseherhealthinsurancecompanymighthave consideredthatasapreexistingconditionanddeniedcoverage.However,if shecouldtietheneedforherangioplastysomehowtotheemotional distressprecipitatedbytheincidentwiththrmanagershemightbeableto getJ&Jtopickupthetabfortheangioplasty. AstheytaughtusinCorporateAmericayouhavetothinkoutsidethebox.

kerry_zaputz
September 7th, 2011 7:17 pm

Thereareveryoddfeaturestothisstory.Whileanyonewouldhave compassionforthiswomanwholostadaughter,Icanseehowthe conversionofacubicleintoashrinecausedhercoworkerstofeeluneasy.It wouldbebizarretodisplayonesdaughtersballetslippersatworkevenif shewasalive;allthemoresowhensheisdeceased.Theinformationabout thedaughtersacceptanceintoCornellmusthavebeenpartoftheplaintiffs testimony.ImnotseeingtherelevanceofCornelltohergrief.Hergrief wouldbelessifherdaughterwasonlyacceptedintoajuniorcollege?Lastly, ifthiswomanhadangioplasty,shehadatherosclerosisnotanacute conditioncausedbystress.Ithinktheverdictwasjust. Wealsodontknowanythingwhatsoveraboutherpersonally,despiteallthe presumptiveconclusionsaboveaboutmanipulativeorotherwisepathological character. ThatswhyIsuggestedthatwithoutsuchdirectknowledge,itwasall blowingwind.

Justice in MI
September 7th, 2011 7:58 pm

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Justice in MI
September 7th, 2011 8:01 pm

Yossuggestiontoholdoffonjudgmentineitherdirectionexactlybecause ofallwedontknowwasprobablyhewisestandmostusefulpostonthis thread. Idonotappreciateanywhining,mournful,womenclerksinmycompany takingmycubiclespaceupwiththeirballetslippers.J&Jisnotadancestudio oracancercluster.Sure,mystockstinksandpipelinesux.Butdonottakeup mytimewithyourproblems.Nowgetbacktowork!!!!NOW!!! ThesepostsfromBig_Bill_Wareoffensive,unfunnyandindecent.Sadperson shouldbeblocked. Christopher,ablogbydefinitionisanopenforum,andcensorshipwouldbe antitheticaltotheconcept.Ibelieveittobeaselfcorrectingmechanismthat actuallyworksifyoulookatthehistoryofthesethreadsovertheyears.I evengettiredofmyownbloviationattimes,whichpromptsmetomoveon. OII:Idisagreewithtwoofyourthreesentences.Imnotevensureaboutthe third,butIdobelievethatthesecommentssimplycrossthelineof acceptability.Ihavebeenareaderandoccasionalcontributorheresincethe beginning,andbelievethetoneisgenerallycivilandususallyconstructive. Thesecommentsareneitherbutareuglyandhurtful,andwouldandshould getthe authorthrownoutofthegardenparty. Christopher,hereswhatcrossestheline,touseyourterminology:yelling fireinacrowdedtheaterwhenthereisnoactualfire.Thatmightendanger people.Thereisnoendangermenthere.ReadyourUSConstitution.Its calledFreedomofFpeech.IfEdweretostartcensoringposts,hewouldlosea lotofposters,andnotjusttheonespostingcommentsinpoortaste.He wouldlosethoseposterswho,likeIbelieveintheprincipleofFreedomof Speech.IllgoforexclusionofGeorgeCarlinssevendirtywords,butnot muchelse. Again,touseyourphraseology,evenatgardenpartyyouwillfindafew overripetomatoes.Analagouswiththeselfcorrectingmechanismofthese blogssuchfruitusuallydoesnthangaroundverylong.

Big_Bill_W
September 7th, 2011 9:59 pm

Christopher
September 8th, 2011 8:07 am

original industry insider

September 8th, 2011 8:45 am

Christopher
September 8th, 2011 9:27 am

original industry insider

September 8th, 2011 9:47 am

Christopher
September 8th, 2011 9:59 am

OII:Endangermentneverenteredintomythinking;regardless,Iam unconvincedbyyourargumentbutthatsneitherherenorthere.Edhasused thegardenpartyanalogyforyears includingyesterday.Ithinkthatsaysit all. Interestingthatapostaboutagrievingwomanandherlawsuithasprovoked somuch.

Justice in MI
September 8th, 2011 1:11 pm

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Forwhatitsworth,IassumedBigBillwasbeingacaricatureofacertain attituderatherthanactuallybelievingit.Butwhoknows? Perhapstheambiguitiesofwrittencommunicationisanotherreasontotake particularcarewithwhatonesaysandhowonesaysit. Sothatdoesntsoundhumorless,Iwouldcontributeagrapejokenow,but probablyfewhereremembergrapejokes. JaT

September 8th, 2011 1:46 pm

NotonlyaheartlessmovebyJ&Jbutnonetoosmart. Itwouldhavebeenmorefairandcompassionatetoimposearuleaboutnot displayingfamilyitemsordiscussingfamilyintheworkplace. IsthecompanylessresponsibleforpreventingCeceliasdistressthanthe distressoftheemployeeswhocomplained?Discriminationdoesnotplaywell incourt.Ithinkherlawyersblewit.

original industry insider

September 8th, 2011 2:01 pm

JaT,onceyoustartimposingrulesaboutwhatcanandcantbedisplayedina cubeyouwindupwithsomethingsimilartothesituationwhencompanies wentbusinesscasual.Thereweresuchoutrageousexamplesofwhatpeople consideredcasualthatcompaniesresortedtodevisingarbitrarylistsof whatmanagementconsideredappropriateattire.Wereinthebusinessof makingdrugs,andwerenotinthebusinessofarbitratingwhatshouldbe consideredappropriateintermsofpersonalattireorcubedecoration. Weasmanagersthoughtwecouldrelyoncommonsensetoprevail,butwe wereonlyfoolingourselves. p.s.doesanyoneconsiderSpandexandcargopantsproperofficeattire?We hadaplethoraofthatuntilwehadtoresorttomakingthoselists.

RandDChemist
September 9th, 2011 8:13 am

Thissituationiscomplexandnomerestorycandoitmeritandcoveritto thelevelofdetailneededtodecidewhatwentwrong. Itseasytoblameonesideortheother,butIsuspectbothsidesdidnot handleitwell. Thereisatleastonestudythatsuggeststhatcubicledecorcanbedistracting atacertainpoint,eventhoughitseemsheavyhanded. Tome,ifshewasgrievingatasignificantlevelafterseveralmonthsshe clearlyneededmorehelp.Ifshechosenottoget/receivethathelp,wellthen shebecameamajorissueandneededtomoveonforeveryonesbenefit (especiallyhers).Thegrievingwillnevergoaway,buttimedoeshealifthe processisanoverallhealthyone. MentalhealthcareintheUShasimproved,butitstillhasalongwaytogo.

Lynn M
September 9th, 2011 12:07 pm

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Isaythisassomeonewholosta17yearoldniecethatIhelpedraise(andwho wasmyfavorite)andasacitizenofNJ:Icarrythedayofherdeathinmy heartasapainthatneverhealsbutteachesmewisdom.MsIngrahamstrikes meassomeonebadlyinneedofcompassion butshedidntdeservetowin thatcase.Pictures,andyeseventheballetshoes,areonething.Ikeepa prompictureofmynieceatmydesk.Constantdiscussionofthegrief however,afterafewmonths,isdistruptiveoftheworkplace.Mybrotherand hiswiferanabusiness,sotheyhadtomanagetheirgriefinordertosurvive. Andtheydid.Theirofficewasfilledwithremindersoftheirdaughter,but theykeptdiscussionoftheirgrieftoaminimumintheworkenvironment andonlyspokeofittooutsiderswhenasked. Havingsaidthat,themanagershouldhaveworkedwithHRearlyontotry andfindawaytomitigatethesituation.Andsayingjustgetoverit,shes deadisneverconstructive. Expert Testimoney
September 10th, 2011 1:56 am

Thisstoryhasbeenpickedupbythenationalmedia.Addthistothepiss pooroversightthecompanyhasdisplayedinjustabouteveryfacetoftheir businessandtheiroverpaidincompetentCEOandyouhavearecipefor disaster.ThisisaPRnightmareforastruggling,yesstruggling,oncegreat Americancompany.YoucanbetthattherearepeoplewhowillavoidJ&J productsinthefuture.Countmeasone. Dontcountmeasone.J&Jstillmakesthebestbabypowder.Icanjustsee theheadlineintheNYPost:Extra,extra,readallaboutit.Grievingcube momsuesbandaidmakerforemotionaldistress!. Cantwaitforthepapertohitmydoorstep.

original industry insider

September 10th, 2011 9:53 am

Paula Marie
September 12th, 2011 9:03 am

Iamcominguponthe5thanniversaryofmy21yearoldsonsdeath,andI canrelatethatthepaindoesnotgoaway.Thepaincausedbythelossofyour child,nomattertheageorcircumstance,isunimaginable,andlearningto managethegriefisdifficultanddifferentforeveryone.Mostpeoplecannot relatetothesuffering.CompaniesshouldofferthroughHRsometypeofgrief counselingpriortoreturningtowork,andshouldalsooffersensitivity training,whichcoversmanydifferentcircumstancesincludingloss,anew child,divorce,etc.IveworkedforthesamesmallR&Dcompanyforover20 years,andonlyoneofmycoworkerscametomysonswakeorfuneral;Im tryingtoacceptthefactthattheycannotrelatetomyloss.Aparentwill nevergetoverormoveonfromthelossoftheirchildandtheirchilds future. Paula,companiesofferhelpthroughEAPsforthesesituations.PersonallyI wouldrecommendavoidingthem.Youdontgetreferredtoaboardcertified psychiatrist.Yougettoseeaclinicalpsychologistwhomayknowaboutrats inmazesbutnotmuchelse.Ifyouneedanantidepressant,whichonemay wellneedinsuchgriefsituations,thepsychologistwillthenpingpongyouto ashrinkwhowillfollowyouwith15minutemedicationchecksforadefined period,butnopsychotherapy,asthatistheprovinceoftheratdoctor.

Former Pharma Director

September 12th, 2011 9:52 am

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Moreover,thefratdoctorandtheshrinkusuallynevertalktoeachother althoughtheyaresupposedtocorrdinateyourtherapy.Plusdependingon yourplanyouarelimitedtoafinitenumberofsessions. Ifyoucanafforditdoyourselfafavorinsuchsituation.AvoidtheEAP altogetherandseektheservicvesofacompetentMDpsychiatrist. Working mom

September 12th, 2011 10:36 am

Iguessyouallaresodistractedbythepsychoticlooninthenextcubicle whoismourningoverherdeadchildthatyousimplycannotworkandmust insteadwriteaboutthosethingsofwhichyouclearlyknownothing.Iwould thinkacompanylikeJ&Jwouldrequireallemployeestoundergoannual sensitivitytraining,whichconverseverythingfromgrieftoanewchildto divorce,andthatavisitwithaninhousepsychologistwouldbesuggested andperhapsrequiredbeforereturningtowork.Igetthefeelingthatnoneof youhavechildren,andcertainlynoneofyouhavelostone,oryouwould knowthattimedoesnothealallwoundsandagrievingparentneversimply moveson.Ihavemanyphotosofmychildreninmyworkarea,including severalofmydeceased21yrold.Ineverflauntitinfrontofmycoworkers, andinsteadIcarryaverylargechiponmyshoulderbecausenoneofthem attendedhiswakeorfuneraleventhoughweveworkedtogetherforover20 years.PerhapstheyshouldbetakingXanax,asoneofyourecommended,so thatnoneofthemwillseeorfeelitcoming.Whenitcomestotheirkids, motherscanliftcars.Thewomaninquestionclearlyneededhelpearlyon, andshameonhercolleaguesfornotsteppingup.Ihopeyoualldiealone. Wheredoesallthesensitivitytrainingbeginandend?Myschooltaxesare alreadyhighbecauseofallofthesocalledspecialistsintheschoolsystem. Soifagroupofunderagehighschoolcheerleaderschoosestogoeona drinkingbingeandgetkilledinanMVAdoweneedtoimmediatelysummon thegriefcounselorsintotheclassroomthenextday?Maybeweshould includegriefcounselingaspartofworkingmomsproposedmandatory sensitivitytraining.WhenIwasinBigPharmawewounduphavingto spendsomanyhoursindiversityandsensitivitytrainingtherewasbarely enoughtimetodoourwork. Whendidgrievinggofrombeingaprivatemomenttoapublicspectacle? Someonetellme.Iknowwhatyouronewordanswerwillbe:Columbinne.

original industry insider

September 12th, 2011 12:10 pm

Connnie Reader
September 12th, 2011 6:10 pm

originalindustryinsiderinconfusingFreedomfromGovernmentCensorship ofSpeechwithFreedomtoGetAwaywithbeingInsulting,Stupid,or DishonestintheCompanyofothers amistakemademorecommonlyby TeaPartyCandidates. SeeingasEdisnottheFederalGovernmentcontrollingspeechinthe metaphoricalPublicSquare,hecansetthestandardshewantsfora discussiongroupinspacehecontrols. OIIsaid:

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...ReadyourUSConstitution.ItscalledFreedomofFpeech.IfEdwereto startcensoringposts,hewouldlosealotofposters,andnotjusttheones postingcommentsinpoortaste.Hewouldlosethoseposterswho,likeI believeintheprincipleofFreedomofSpeech.IllgoforexclusionofGeorge Carlinssevendirtywords,butnotmuchelse. Again,touseyourphraseology,evenatgardenpartyyouwillfindafew overripetomatoes.Analagouswiththeselfcorrectingmechanismofthese blogssuchfruitusuallydoesnthangaroundverylong. original industry insider
September 12th, 2011 6:46 pm

Connie,freedomofspeechalsoappliestowrittenspeech,asexemplifiedby posterswhocannotmanagetostringtogetheracoherentsetofparagraphs. Onlysomanyhoursintheschooldayforwritingclasses,Isuppose,withall ofthatextrarequiredtimeneededforextraneoussubjectsthatImentioned above. Peopleareforgettingthatitsthewomanwhowalkedoutofherjobandsued J&J.Whatsthepoormanagertodowhenotheremployeesarecomplaining tohim.Itsveryhardtryingtodealwithaemotionalwomanwhere performancebecameaproblem.Ihadtothiscoupleoftimesinmycareer (divorceinonecase;anaffairgonewrongwithanother).Bothwerenot pleasant. Agree100%withJ&Jer.IntheolddaysIwouldhavereferredtheemployeeto theEAPprogramandgivenheraperformancewarningonherquarterly review.IfthesituationdidntimproveIwouldhavePIPdherathernext reviewandputheronperformanceprobation,endofstory.TodayifIwereto PIPthesameemployeeIwouldmakedamnsurethatIcheckedwithLegal firsttomakesurethatmybacksidewascovered.LikeIsaidourjobas managersistocrankoutthedrugs,notmanageadaycarecenter. Ifyoulookatthisobjectively,thecompanywaswellwithinitsrightsto addresstheconcernsofotheremployees.Theissueishowpoorlytrainedher supervisorwas.Thisemotionallydistraughtwomanneededprofessional help,notcoldcallouscompanyfirstattitudes.WhileIrespecttheopinionsof others,whenyousayourjobistocrankourdrugs,notbabysit,youresort tofearbasedmanagementstylesthatneverworked.Ifyoutakecareofyour employees,theywill,inturn,takecareofcustomersandgrowthhappens.If youabuseemployees,theyabuseorignorecustomers.Itsprettybasic. FormerPI,asyouknowPerformanceImprovementPrograms(PIPS)areone outcomeofapoorperformancereview,atleastinallofthecompaniesIve workedfor.Theyactuallyhelptheemployeebyoutliningaprogramthatsets specificgoalsforimprovementsothatthePIPdemployeeknowsexactly wheretheystand,andHRisonboard,maybeevenlegal.Iwouldarguethat itisexactlytheoppositeoffearbasedmanagement,whichIagreeisbad,as itkeepstheemployeeinaperpetualstateofuncertainty.

J&J'er
September 19th, 2011 2:13 pm

original industry insider

September 19th, 2011 6:19 pm

Former Pharma Insider

September 21st, 2011 10:08 am

original industry insider

September 21st, 2011 1:04 pm

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