layman2u

The four Gospels describe the person who is the heart of the gospel 2Pet1:16; 1Cor15:1-4. they are not a doctrial exposition, although occasional expository notes are found. Matthew presents Christ as the king of the Jews. Mark has him as the Perfect Servant. Luke features him as the Perfect Man. Finally John shows that he is above all the son of God.

imtiazq

Hi there, Luke claims that 'Gospel of Luke' is merely a history book written along with others based on what he heard from some sources - no divine inspiration involved. Reference - Luke 1:1-4 Now, if there is no divine inspiration involved, why studying this book to get closer to The Divine Entity? It doesnt make much sense to me. Another point, may be off topic, if your religion is the true religion of God, what name God gave to your religion? I dont meant to offend anyone here (honestly), just some points that distracted me from Jesusianity regards Q

Mormon-Quill

The four gospels were not written by four apostles. John marc and Luke were not apostles. Matthew and John alone of the evangelists were apostles. You seem to be unaware of the possibility of 'Q' and of the literary dependency shared by Matthew and Luke on Mark's rescension of 'Q.' The four accounts were not merely remembrances of the life of Jesus and his doings. Each gospeller wrote with a distinct purpose and for discreted target audiences. Apostle Matthew writes for his Judaic brethren and so quotes from tnk to demonstrate that Jesus fufills the promises made about the Messiah that is to come. Physician Luke wrote for gentiles - himself a gentile of Greece - and appeals to reason to make his case, for he knows the Hellenic mindset. Companion of Peter John Marc did little more than catalogue the stories of and about Jesus, neatly, and according to place, for example, 'by the sea shore,' &c. He is thought to represent Peter's view of Jesus, and also to have consulted the 'speculative' source dopcument, 'Quelle' called 'Q' for short. Some scholars posit a document earlier than Q on which Q was dependant. It is evident that Matthew and Luke have profound leaning on Mark's account, because they elaboratye what he wrote, and have their materials slightly in different order, but overall from the same perspective, hence, synoptic, having the same or a similar view. The Fourth Gospel is another matter entirely. It is the last book in the NT to have been written, later than Revelation. John's purpose [if it is written by John the apostle] is to correct a disturbing trend in the Church at the end of the first century of the Common Era. Without delving deeply into the mnay probloems the church had at this time, one was that the Jesus that died on the Cross was a phantom, and not really Man-God [or God-man]. John sets out to resore belief in the humanity of Jesus whilst keeping his divinity shining bright. In 4G the writer's purpose is not to describe what happened, but to illuminate the puspose of what happened. It has been called 'The Book of Signs,' having, it is said, seven signs that prove the Divinity of Christ, the power of God with which his Father had endowed with him. Nevertheless, there are significant departures from the common path as, for example, how long Jesus' ministry in Jerusalem, and whether 'the last supper' was a Pesach meal, or whether it took place the day before. John is widely at cvariance with the synopticists on these two,and other, historic points. One further thjing [among many] where John wanders off by himself is in the case of his introduction of 'realised eschatology.' It is obvious from your writing that you have zeal to defend your faith. However, and I do not say this in any way to offend or insult, but your zeal is not accompanied by knowledge of the Bible in an equal amount. You reach some wrong conclusions by guessing. Your intentions are honourable, and I commend yuou for that./ But to step iunto the light of day in either polemical, exegetical, or proclamative fashion, it is incumbent of you to study the Bible from several of the many up-to-date 'Introductions' that are written by excellent Bible scholars. Having done that, then your output would be significantly less fragile, less easily critiqued negatively, and less simplistic. This would make you a powerful voice in your cause because then you would 'speak with authority and not as do the scribes and pharisees.' I am encouraged that you acknowledge scribal errors in the transmission of ther Bible. There are, however, many other kinds of errors, some intenyional, others intentional, and some occur because the accounts are from separate documents, known as variants. It seems likely that when these, or most of them, came together, the collection was not filtered to suit the theologies of the men in charge of the collecvtion, but they kept good and bad together, and when forming tnk they threw everything they had into. That there are some texts stitched together from a variety of bricollage [fragments of loosely connected material, but with variations] as can be demobnstrated in Genesis, whether one accepts Wellhausen's theory or not. Any way the Bible is viewed it is fascinating, informative, and inspiring. What it is NOT, is perfect, of equal value in all its parts, inerrant, and in agreement with itself throughout the whole library that is the Holy Bible. Please maintain your studies. You have a gift for it. In Christ

ronross

It seems important to you to maintain that there were 14 generations between Babylon and Jesus (#32) But you ignore the incorrect use of "14" generations to describe the period between David and the captivity in Babylon. As you yourself note in #30 , some were left out of Matthew's list. This may not be simply to arrive at the number 14. Those left out of the genealogy were Joram, only surviving son of Jehosphat, Ahaziah, only surviving son of Joram, Joash, the only surviving son of Ahaziah, and Amaziah, son of Joash and father of Uzziah. (see 2nd Chronicles 21-26) The reason for this may be so that Matthew can include a tirade in chapter 25 in which he accuses the ancestors of scribes and Pharisees of killing the prophet Zechariah "between the temple and the altar." In fact, It was actually Jesus' own ancestor Joash who killed Zechariah between the temple and the altar. In any case there were 18 generations between David and Babylon.

zakiii

hi there.. i agree with you wich it exist some contradiction in "bibles".. but the problem what bibles do you talking about??!!! so.. i think wich you must take a look in a bible name's "SAINT CORAN", the bible of the islam rligion frind.

dc1989

Yes the contradictions were resolved by men REWRITING THE TEXT, to fit and make sense. It should of never been revised in the first place. and yes corrected into what <i>they want you to believe</i> and the only way relgion appeases to anyone is because VAST RICHES, paradise, or virgins are promised, sounds kind of humanely doesn't it?

Divus

A lot of questions can be solved in the New Testament, reading the book of Francesco Carotta. http://www.carotta.de

arshie

It is good to see that we have something in common. Maybe some time you can tell me about it. Yes, what I have told you is Islam. God summarizes the purpose of life in Quran 67:1-2 "Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and, He is Able to do all things. Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving". To Muslim, this life is a testing ground. The scoring of which is done on the basis of deeds. And the reward of which will be given by the Creator on the day of Judgement. To a Muslim, for the Creator to be pleased and happy with him is the utmost achievement. This is what a Muslim strives for to earn the acceptance of his Creator. And when the Creator is pleased he blesses his servants with endless bounties. Those who believe in the Oneness of God and are righteous would earn His pleasure. Any other rewards that come along the way in Paradise are an added advantage. Such as a perfect social life that you Dennis dream of, infact much better than that, everlasting life, happiness, peace, luxuary, absence of pain, anguish and suffering. These are the motivation factors (from hereafter) for a Muslim. There are worldly motivations as well, which I will write about in due course of time. The torment of hereafter is certainly a deterrant from transgressing the Quranic Law. A person might escape and avoid the punishment for his wrong doing in this world. But, when he is Judged by the Creator from whom nothing is hidden, all accounts will be settled in full. God says in Al-Quran 99:6-8: "That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then.". The judgment is also mentioned in Al-Quran 101:4-11: "A day wherein mankind will be as thickly-scattered moths And the mountains will become as carded wool. Then, as for him whose scales are heavy (with good works), He will live a pleasant life. But as for him whose scales are light, Will have his home in a (bottomless) Pit. And what will make you know what it is? (It is) a Fire Blazing fiercely!". I shall write about the aspect of God's law implementation on earth that deters people from committing injustice at a later time. Thanks

den3

very interesting. thank you, you did a great job of explaining. it seams that we both have almost the same ideas. just some of mine tend to blend with other religions but this is very much like what i belive. you said this is Islam, correct? what i am confused by is this. Every one needs a motivation to live, and is this motivation a chance to see the Creator? also is the threat of the Lord punishing them a some-what safe guard to keep the people in order? thanks alot, i'll post again soon. dennis

arshie

.. continued .. This is a true democratic system woven within the fabric of Islam, which gives people freedom to implement matters within the limits prescribed by God. And the greatness and Oneness of God with the responsibility of personal accountability on the day of judgement makes righteous people stay on the straight track. A righteous Muslim is like a bird with two wings. One wing of Hope that God the most merciful and most forgiving will forgive him and grand his a place in paradise where he would be able to see his Creator. Another wing of fear that God the most Just would punish him for his wrong doings. The result of excessive wrong is hell-fire. And worst of all it is the feeling that one might never ever able to know who created him to start with.

arshie

..continued... "That no laden one shall bear another's load, And that man hath only that for which he maketh effort, And that his effort will be seen. And afterward he will be repaid for it with fullest payment; That to thy Lord is the final Goal;" Al-Quran 53:38-42. It states that every person is responsible for his own actions. One person cannot be held accountable for anothers persons deeds. There is no original sin. Every child is born sinless, with a clean slate. Everyone would be rewarded upon resurrection after death. And the reward would be eternal life in Paradise, or an eternal life in Hell-fire. Above is regarding the accounting in the hereafter. While Quran clearly states the prohibitions of stealing, lying, cheating, backbiting, slandering, murdering, committing indecency etc. Which are important for safeguarding the peaceful operationg of a society. It also tells us how to create an environment where people do not commit the prohibited actions that would cause chaos in the society. For instance, God command in Quran not to steal, or not to take anything from anyone without permission. And inorder to create an environment that would prevent people from stealing God commands in Quran to give 2.5% of ones annual saving to the people in the neighborhood who are in need of it. This social wellfare system reduces the problem of "theft out of necessity". And if anyone has what he needs and he steals because of greed. Then there is a criminal punishment which warns, flogs, or chops of the hands depending on the seriousness of the theft. In terms of murder. God says in Holy Quran 5:32 "If anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if he has saved the whole of humanity.". This prohibits killing of innocent people. In order to establish a state of justice in the society God says in Al-Quran 17:33: "Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law). Again, the prohibition is accompanied but a punishment and bounds. While God allows the killing or forgiving of a murderer, He also tells that it is only the right of the relatives of close ones who get to decide, and that they can only punish the criminal and not anyone else and neither in any other manner. The list of such prohibitions, methods of arbitration in this world, limits in arbitration and recompense in the hereafter is comprehensive in Islam and Quran and Ahadith cover all the aspects of human beings personal, social, financial, legal, humanitarian and military affiars in great detail. This is a true democratic system woven within the fabric of Islam, which gives people freedom to implement matters within the limits prescribed by God. And the greatness and Oneness of God with the responsibility of personal accountability on the day of judgement makes righteous people stay on the straight track. A righteous Muslim is like a bird with two wings. One wing of Hope that God the most merciful and most forgiving will forgive him and grand his a place in paradise where he would be able to see his Creator. Another wing of fear that God the most Just would punish him for his wrong doings. The result of excessive wrong is hell-fire. And worst of all it is the feeling that one might never ever able to know who created him to start with.

arshie

Brother Dennis, I pray that you you get well soon. I am not an expert on Bible. A Bible Scholar would be a better person to ask this question to. But I do know the Islamic stand on this matter. Everything in Islam has its basis on the Oneness of God. In Islam there are no ifs and buts about Oneness of God. In Al-Quran Chapter 112, God tells of Himself: Say: He is God, One and Only. God, The Absolute, The Eternal. He Begets not Nor is He Begotten. And there is absolutely nothing even remotely similar to Him. In other words He is Supreme, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Seeing, most-forgiving, most-merciful, ever existent, independant, uncomparable. In Islam all human beings are created equal. Islam absolutely negates the concept of superiority of any nation, race, class or sect over another. This is evident from Holy Quran: "O Mankind, We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you" (Quran 49:13). This verse not only addresses Muslims but the whole of mankind as a single greater brotherhood. The criteria of superiority in the sight of God is not race, class or wealth, it is God consciousness. The fact that God divided men in different nations, colors and tribes is not wrong, rather it is a sign. "And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colors. Verily, in that are indeed signs for those who know" [Quran 30:22]). The injunctions of Quran are further emphasized by the last prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace be upon him) throughout his life and specially during his last sermon: "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black, nor a black has any superiority over a white- except by piety and good action." And this concept of universal brother is practically implemented 5 times a day in the Mosques, streets and houses around the world during Salaah (prayers), where rich, poor, scholars, illiterates, all colors stand shoulder to shoulder and prostate together with humility. Universal brotherhood is further practically demonstrated when 2.5% of annual wealth is distributed to the needy in the community. In Islam there are no intermedieries to God and no one can forgive anyones sins on behalf of God. God is most forgiving most merciful, and closest to Human being, more closer to him than his jugular vein according to Quran. But God is the most Just. And it is out of his Justice that everyone would be held accountable, rewarded and punished. "That no laden one shall bear another's load, And that man hath only that for which he maketh effort, And that his effort will be seen. And afterward he will be repaid for it with fullest payment; That to thy Lord is the final Goal;" Al-Quran 53:38-42. It states that every person is responsible for his own actions. One person cannot be held accountable for anothers persons deeds. There is no original sin. Every child is born sinless, with a clean slate. Everyone would be rewarded upon resurrection after death. And the reward would be eternal life in Paradise, or an eternal life in Hell-fire. Above is regarding the accounting in the hereafter. While Quran clearly states the prohibitions of stealing, lying, cheating, backbiting, slandering, murdering, committing indecency etc. Which are important for safeguarding the peaceful operationg of a society. It also tells us how to create an environment where people do not commit the prohibited actions that would cause chaos in the society. For instance, God command in Quran not to steal, or not to take anything from anyone without permission. And inorder to create an environment that would prevent people from stealing God commands in Quran to give 2.5% of ones annual saving to the people in the neighborhood who are in need of it. This social wellfare system reduces the problem of "theft out of necessity". And if anyone has what he needs and he steals because of greed. Then there is a criminal punishment which warns, flogs, or chops of the hands depending on the seriousness of the theft. In terms of murder. God says in Holy Quran 5:32 "If anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if he has saved the whole of humanity.". This prohibits killing of innocent people. In order to establish a state of justice in the society God says in Al-Quran 17:33: "Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law). Again, the prohibition is accompanied but a punishment and bounds. While God allow

den3

firstly, thanks for hoping that im in good health but i just resently got into a terrible axident with ha miter saw :( but thats beside the point. any way, the society i envision is actualy some what of a socialist/communist like society. where most property is shared. so a local organisiation would be fairly easy for a group of people to establish. also i belive in a thing called the common knowledge. its basicaly where knowledge is shared without governmet censorship. so in common knowledge, say if a ufo was sigted, the government would not be able to kidnap the sighter and tell him that ufo's dont exist and if he ever speeks of what he saw he, his family, and his friends will be killed. ( i know its a exagurated example but i think it proves my point better). this " common knowledge " would VERY efectively moniter the amount of power that the local government has. also your right, its human nature to get caried away with power. their are the very few rare people ( like me) who would refuse the oportunity to have mass power. and i think those people should be in charge. george washington was a person like this, and probably the one and only " good" president of the u.s. people like this are very eisily distinguished by their personality, interests, and emotions. and i think that a few well educated people who study this kind of stuf ( sorry i dont know what this branch of science is called) could eisily distinguish these people as children and give them the oportunity to have some amounts of power over others. what im wondering though ( this gose back a few posts) is how the bible explains these questions. such as how a soverign person wouldent become a savage with power. and how a person is puished for thei crimes?

arshie

Hi Dennis, I hope that you are in the best of health and spirit. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I agree with you on the money front. However, I think that the problem that we have with money would still exist even if money was not there. Money is just another representation of wealth or value. If we look back at history when banks had not taken over the lives of people , the situation was not so bad as it is today. But, even with trade system people still had this urge to gather more of valuable items such as grain, sheep, horses, gold etc. And crimes were committed, although to a lesser degree. So, in my opinion, removing money and going back to trade based system will certainly lower "greed of wealth" related crimes, but not eliminate them completely. Local governance is a good idea. Issues can be settled much more quickly without too much of a red tape. But again the question arises: How would the rules of a community be defined? In other words how would the equivalent of a scaled down constitution be achieved? How would the community arrive at these rules. Such are the questions which come to my mind when I think of this situation. Would it be similar to the democratic process we have today, which is ofcourse not so democratic any more. The one with more guns has the biggest mouth. The concept of "sovereignty belongs to people" is running wild and unleashed without knowing any morality or respect for humanity. How can the micro community concept prevent "sovereign people" from becoming savages?

den3

state came to compete in long boat races. so the raes were held last week i and some friends went to watch and it was fun, i lost 10$ in a bet though. anyway, yesterday i read this arcicle in the newspaper about how someone had found out about under the table deals doune to set the winers of that race. so i just ask myself the question why someone would do that. wouldent the world be so much better if people like that were somewhere else? ill explain the whole story if you want in another post later. dennis.l