JasonPA: Euphony, it won't blow over until that clique chills outEuphony: I've seen Vacula talking about it a lotJasonPA: trueEuphony: I don't follow Watson as much so I'm not sure what she and others sayJasonPA: it makes sense that those directly involved might comment, but yeah even Justiin needs to moveon Notung: anyone planning on calling in?Godlesscat: If I am in a bar with friends and I get approached , 1 st I say no then I embarass them, then Igo to the manager CommanderTuvok: Euphony: I thought you hang out at Skepchick. Watson talks about this a lot.Euphony: I said I read her sometimes.JasonPA: but what is he to do if he's being blacklisted from the movement over this topic? you know?Euphony: It isn't oftenCommanderTuvok: ok Notung: i think move on about certain incidents etc. but there is a chronic problem with dogma andvilification of dissenters etcGodlesscat: no one is being blacklisted Notung: we can't move on from thatEuphony: Vacula seems as popular as ever, unless I'm mistakenCommanderTuvok: Vacula is a good guy, badly treated by Lousy Canuck JasonPA: so does Sam Harris, but as an atheist he's still limited access to thingsGodlesscat: I have never been sexually harassed in the atheist community at eventsGodlesscat: I have been sexually harassed A LOT from other business eventsJasonPA: the other thing was they were calling things sexist that were gross exagerations, but if anybodychallenges that they look like sexistsJasonPA: it's bsEuphony: I would imagine it's somewhat better at atheist events, though I've never been to oneJasonPA: define sexual harassment and sexistGodlesscat: someone grabbing meGodlesscat: someone showing sexual interest and me asking them to stopJasonPA: i hate that so much of this is nuance and difficult to actually discussEuphony: Is it possible that some atheist men are defensive about this issue?Godlesscat: they do not, 3 strike they are out I report themEuphony: But atheist women could have prejudices as wellEuphony: I tend to trust people's experiences and believe them when they say they feel unsafe, but I wantto know whyGodlesscat: everyone is human firstGodlesscat: that may be how they feel but I would have reported it to the hotelEuphony: I think people should report things.Euphony: Sometimes their concerns might not be taken seriouslyEuphony: maybe they don't feel safe enough to report itEuphony: because they wouldn't be taken seriously Notung: that's unfair - as karla said, she's been making substantial and useful pointsGodlesscat: I have never been at an establishment that did not pay attetion to my concernsGodlesscat: NEVER Godlesscat: I could use them if they ignore someone reportingEuphony: I've never been to an event. It could be a possibility at some, but I don't know from experienceGodlesscat: errr sue not useEuphony: I'm going to sign off for tonight. Lots to think about. Hope we can all get along.