Objection One:

“I do not remember all the conversation in detail. But the following is part of what was being discussedat that time. Father Timothy Mock wrote a thesis paper on this subject years before Vatican II started.He writes about what could be done and who could elect a pope if all the cardinals were killed. He thenexplains about the law of devolution.

If there are no cardinals to elect the pope, it devolves down tothose next in line who can elect a pope. After the cardinals I think it devolves to the clerics in Rome. If there are no Catholic clerics in Rome it devolves to the other Catholic bishops in the world. It willnever devolve past these Catholic bishops because there will always be Catholic bishops on earth.Therefore, it could not devolve down to the laity.”

I Answer That,

On the contrary, can not a person refuse to act either out of malice or out of ignorance? For example,can the clerics out of malice and hatred to the Church, refuse to elect another pope? Yes, that is whatthe gift of free will is. They can choose to do evil or to do good. Can not a person out of ignorance, notwillful ignorance (willful ignorance is a grave evil), not elect a pope because they do not know thecurrent situation?Theoretically speaking, they (those clergy that are ignorant of the situation) are considered “dead”.Because their ignorance does not allow them to act as they ought. In addition, their ignorance stopsthem in their tracks.The clergy has a few options once their ignorance is cleared.A) Stay in their malice and refuse to help.B) If the papacy is vacant, fill the vacancy.C) If the papacy is filled with its proper head, help restore the Church, under the guidance of the Pope.There is only two ultimate ends that the clergy (and laity for that matter) can head toward. Either theyrevert to option A or follow option C. Purgatory is not an ultimate end, for it is a state of purgation of sins. Eventually the souls, after satisfying Divine Justice for their sins, will be brought to Heaven toenjoy eternal bliss. So too is ignorance not an ultimate end. For it is a state in which a soul can neither be obedient to the Church or be disobedient. Souls that are in ignorance are like the poor souls in purgatory, suffering dearly for their blindness and absence of the Vision of God. The ignorant soulswho are suffering in darkness, are waiting for someone, anyone for that matter, to give them the Visionof Truth, which is the only way and cure from darkness and blindness. As I stated earlier: “Becausetheir ignorance does not allow them to act as they ought.” Just like there are truly only two ultimateends in this life, that is Hell or Heaven. Those who are disobedient to the Church and her Master, will perish under His Justice. Those who are faithful are rewarded for their sacrifices by His Divine Mercy,if they have completed their mission from God. “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter intothe kingdom of heaven.”

Which from eternity was their vocation given to them by God. “For this isthe will of God, your sanctification.”

Therefore, it can devolve down to the laity, because they, theclergy, failed to act, either out of malice or out of ignorance.

Devolution:

When a patron has failed to exercise, or has exercised improperly, his right of presentation to a benefice, theright is transferred, for that occasion only.2. Matthew 7:213. 1 Thessalonians 4:3

Objection Two:

“Another subject discussed was: who are Catholics? I told them that in the external forum we were allnon-Catholics for belonging to the Novus Ordo sect and/or other non-Catholic sects. Therefore, Iexplained why non-Catholics need to be received back into the Church by means of the Abjuration of Error and Profession of Faith. However, that teaching is not true. Non-Catholics must be received intothe Church by means of the Abjuration of Error and Profession of Faith by some priest or bishop thatstill has jurisdiction in the Church.”

I Answer That,

On the contrary, this is fatalism,

on the grounds of the circumstance of the election. Should we wait for a miracle for a priest or a bishop to come around for the election? After thirty years (1958), with moreand more souls perishing to Hell, can the Church really wait for a Catholic Priest or Bishop to stroll inat the perfect time, that is at the time of the election? See footnote.

“Having come through Baptism to the supernatural life, being members of the Christiansociety and adopted children of God, the laity belong to the "chosen race", the "royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9) formed of all those who are born again in Christ. They havetherefore a right to share in the common spiritual goods of the Christian society, whichimplies a corresponding obligation on the part of the clergy to bestow on them thesegoods, in as far as this bestowal requires the intervention of the ministers of religion andof the spiritual authority. But if the laity are to share in these common goods they mustemploy more or less frequently the means of sanctification instituted by Jesus Christ inHis Church, and of which the clergy have been put in charge. Further, the laity, beingsubject to ecclesiastical authority, must obey and respect it; but in return they have theright to obtain from it direction, protection, and service.”

If the laity cannot obtain these goods, then there is no purpose for the Church to exist. The laitymust have the right to elect the pope, so the laity can be in subject to ecclesiastical authority, in additionto direction, protection, and service. Canon 682: “The laity has the right to receive from the clergy thespiritual good and especially the necessary means of salvation, according to the rules of ecclesiasticaldiscipline.” If the laity has no right to elect a pope, then their would be no Church, and we might aswell despair! What madness! Since the Catholic clergy failed to act either through malice or throughignorance, the Catholic laity (which you claim) cannot elect a pope, then all Catholics will all perish toHell for they could not be subject themselves to the Pope: "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, wedefine that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the RomanPontiff."

(If we continue to assume the Catholic clergy stayed in their malice or ignorance) And that ismadness! Then God would have truly forsaken the Church, allegorically speaking. But we know thatcannot happen since Jesus Christ stated Himself, "behold I am with you all days, even to theconsummation of the world."

So if Jesus Christ stated Himself that He is to be with us, the Church,

Fatalism:

The doctrine that all effects are produced by a blind necessity (see destiny).

Destiny:

In Catholic philosophy destiny means the ordering of secondary causes that they produce their effects inaccordance by the Fatalists to be a blind necessity binding all things and all their actives. Such a view destroys free will.(cf., Fate).

Fate

(Lat. Fatum, a prediction): In its Christian sense, the ordering of secondary causes by God so that they produce their effects in accordance with the divine providence.5. http://www.vaticaninexile.com/WillChurchSurvive/ShouldWeAwaitaMiracle.html6. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08748a.htm7. Pope Boniface VIII, Encyclical Unam Sanctam, 13028. Matthew 28:20

even to the consummation of the world, then this only reaffirms the teaching of the Council of Trent:“A visible Church requires a visible head; therefore the Saviour appointed Peter head and pastor of allthe faithful, when He committed to his care the feeding of all His sheep, in such ample terms that Hewilled the very same power of ruling and governing the entire Church to descend to Peter's successors.”So as long as Jesus Christ is with the Church, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, so toowill there be a Successor to Peter for the “direction, protection, and service” of the laity. Without Peter,there is no unity. Without Peter there is no purity of doctrine. Without Peter there are no Sacraments.Without Peter, there cannot be the Church, thus no sanctity in society. Society will become corrupt allthe way to the core. “They are all gone aside, they are become unprofitable together: there is none thatdoth good, no not one.”

As we can see from 1950's – present, (except the few Christians fighting this persecution). If society does not fear that someone will punish them for their wickedness, will they not just continue in their perversity? Without Peter, what is there left? There is one thing left. The wolf only to devour the helpless sheep.“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep. But thehireling, and he that is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and flieth: and the wolf catcheth, and scattereth the sheep:And the hireling flieth, because he is a hireling: and he hath no care for the sheep. I amthe good shepherd; and I know mine, and mine know me. As the Father knoweth me, andI know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.”

Society is founded first on the Church (since it is a divine institution), second on the State. To give youan analogy, society is like man. Man has a body and soul. Society has a body and a soul, the State andthe Church. The body, when it is not mortified, passions are allowed to rule the body and the soul, viceflourishes. Thus war, famine, injustice, is the plague God justly sends us for His chastisement, when wecommit sin. However, when the body is mortified, the soul reigns supreme, and virtue flourishes. Sowhen there is peace, justice, and charity in society, that shows the Church is reigning above the State.Just as the Council of Trent teaches on death, results in the separation of the body and the soul,

Ianswer that society dies, that is morality and sanctity disappears, when the Church is separated from theState. Without the Church there is no need for the State. For society would not be able to stay in anycohesiveness. However, without the State, the Church cannot execute its temporal commands, uponHer children and Her enemies. It is the Church that must reign, if society wishes to cure this current plague of godlessness. But it is the Vicar of Christ that we must fear, lest we should disobey, “And heshall rule them with a rod of iron.”

It is only then will peace, justice, and charity will ever take itsaffect. And you want a great example? Look at the world currently. No one acknowledges PopeMichael as the true Pope. Society too is currently running rampant with lust, greed, lack of charity,famine, unjust wars, disease, etc. However, whenever God converts the world from its pagan ways,charity, peace, and justice will reign supreme.

And that is only when the Papacy is properly restoredin the world, “And I send the promise of my Father upon you: but stay you in the city till you be

9. Psalms 13:310. John 10:11-1511. Council of Trent (Page 55): “

Moreover as Christ was true and perfect man, He of course was capable of dying.

Now man dies when the soul is separated from the body

. When, therefore, we say that Jesus died, we mean that His soul wasdisunited from His body.

”12. Apocalypse 2:2713. (

All the holy Fathers agree that after the death of Antichrist

(1978)

the whole world will be converted, and although some of them assert that the world will last but a few days after his death, while others say a few months, some authoritiesinsist that it will continue to exist many years after. St. Catherine of Sienna, St. Vincent Ferrer, St. Francis of Paula, and anumber of other saints have predicted this ultimate universal conversion.

Saint John Eudes, page 319, The Admirable Heartof Mary.)