J P French λssociates

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ASB/4

In the Matter of R -v- Ahmed & Ahmed

Transcript of Sections of Audio from Covert Recordings with Audio File and Real Timings Produced on 11th April 2012 Author: Ms Asfah Bhagdin

Prepared on the Instructions of Cheshire Constabulary Major Investigation Team Warrington Police Station Arpley WA1 1LQ

by J P French Associates Forensic Speech & Acoustics Laboratory 86 The Mount York YO24 1AR Tel: 01904 634821 Fax: 01904 634626 E-mail: enquiries@jpfrench.com

J P French Limited trading as J P French Associates Registered in England and Wales, Registration No. 5095541 Registered Office: 86 The Mount, York, YO24 1AR

Conventions of Transcription M1 M2 F1 F2 MC S FC M F ? Why did IWhy did I(Yes) (Yes/no) Yes/no er… [Coughing] Male speaker 1 Male speaker 2 Female speaker 1 Female speaker 2 Male child Female child addressed as Saima Female child – either child addressed as Mehvish or Rukish Unidentified male speaker Unidentified female speaker Speaker unidentified or lower confidence in attribution Words spoken in Panjabi Words spoken in English Lower level of confidence in words transcribed Alternatives within lower confidence section Alternatives due to ambiguity in translation Hyphens denote incomplete or interrupted speech Unintelligible speech Description of non-verbal sounds or other information

00:01:44/20:51:44 Audio file time/Real time

R-v- Ahmed & Ahmed - Transcript of Sections of Audio – ASB/4

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Transcript of Sections of Audio from Covert Recordings

Section 1 - AG 1/Tape 1 Tape commenced at 20:50 on 18/11/03 and ended at 00:15 on 19/11/03 00:01:44/20:51:44 [Start section 1]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

S

Mum, do you know what.

F1

What?

S

(Joyce) says … to search for d- again, erm the ones who came here before …

F1

They came, (Rizwan) said they looked at every little thing again today. They looked at every little thing again today.

FC

You know all my clothes that were in the bathroom*.

F1

Yeah.

FC

They were there and … all.

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F1

M1

Which ones?

FC

My shalwar kameez1 …

M1

Leaving aside the clothes, the whole carpet* from upstairs-.

F1

Mm.

M1

To downstairs.

F1

Mm.

00:02:08/20:52:08 M1 They did everything*.

F1

I know they made all this mess. All the sofa*s have been move*d.

M1

The sofa*s …

F1

Even the cushions from the sofa*s have been moved.

M1
1

Forget the cushions-

A ‘shalwar kameez’ is a traditional outfit from the Indian sub-continent. It consists of a tunic and trousers.

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MC

… you know that-

F1

And they’ve taken this sheet off and taken it. Mm?

MC

That- that thing?

F1

Yeah.

MC

That has been move*d as well.

F1

Yeah.

M1

They took that off to see if there isn’t anything behind there (of Shafilea’s).

F1

Yeah. And listen, they’ve taken this sheet as well. They’ve taken this sheet, as well.

00:02:30/20:52:30 M1 And what did they need with the sheet?

F1

I then asked, I said, “Where has the sheet gone?” And then he deliberately started looking around him. And then that Pakistani sayshe says, “You haven’t taken it have you?”. He says, “Oh yeah, we got

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that as well and took it”. He does such acting*. Behind ... picked up the …

FC

I ... behind the ...

F1

These- these ones. They move*d the settee* and started looking. I said “There is one but where has the other one gone? Where has it gone?” After looking, then yeah, they’ve taken the sheet now, they’ve taken the (new) sheet.

00:02:58/20:52:58 F1 And with the sheet, it comes back to that, didn’t she sit on it? Everyone sits on it.

M1

...

F1

On the sheet. It’s not only one person who sits on a sheet. What do you think?

00:03:06/20:53:06 M1 ... to take it and took it.

F1

Yeah. Don’t other people stay in our house? It comes back to that.

MC

You know the phone* number*s you kept on pieces of paper*.

F1

Yeah. Yeah.

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MC

They’ve taken all those-

F1

Taken them. And Rukish’s-

MC

The ones-

F1

I think … ring* …

00:03:15/20:53:15 FC Yeah.

F1

Yeah.

MC

Is that yours? Er is it Rukish’s?

F1

It is Rukish’s. Yeah.

MC

We thought that was yours.

00:03:19/20:53:19 F1 Ask me first. You guys, it comes back to the same thing, as you don’t know about these things, which women know about, you should ask first. That is her ring*, I would have told him/her. And it comes back to the same thing, you should have said, all gold jewellery is the same* and when these girls go, they put it on certain occasions. And they wear it, as well. They went in that- in there today, as well, Hello? Eh?

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00:03:40/20:53:40 M1 Mm?

F1

They went in there, as well?

M1

In where?

F1

There, in there.

00:03:45/20:53:45 MC They broke it.

F1

You know that-

MC

That’s why you can tell.

F1

Can’t you tell?

M1

What did they break?

F1

The one that was paint*ed. It was stuck, wasn’t it.

M1

Yeah.

F1

And they have done it, look er, can you see there is a little crack*. I saw it as soon as I came.

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00:04:00/20:54:00 FC ...

M1

And what have they done outside?

F1

What have they done?

M1

… bag*s there …

F1

I don’t know ... didn’t go outside.

MC

Yeah. You know the side* store*?

F1

Yeah.

00:04:13/20:54:13 MC They’ve taken that- taken … there.

FC

What have they taken then?

F1

Who knows, child, what they have taken-

MC

... and this ...

00:04:21/20:54:21 FC Didn’t … show/say you?

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MC

Yeah-

F1

Mm.

FC

... list* …

MC

But this …

F1

Look at this, Mehvishi.

FC

Mm.

F1

They have even move*d the chair*s. Hello, are you looking?

S

This …

F1

And they have torn that paper*.

00:04:35/20:54:35 MC Yeah.

F1

Do you know why?-

S

...

F1

There was that other paper*. Eh?

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MC

Yeah.

FC

Yeah.

00:04:42/20:54:42 F1 They have torn it.

00:04:45/20:54:45 S This as well ...

F1

Like, how we put on different paper*, this was torn by someone else. And that was different paper*, on (these chair*s), they have torn it again.

00:04:53/20:54:53 S No, I ...

MC

... which phone* book* did they take?

FC

The ...

MC

Blue one ...

F1

Yeah.

00:05:00/20:55:00 MC Yeah.

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F1

Mm.

MC

There was that ... in that.

F1

Mm.

MC

That with them, as well.

F1

Mm.

00:05:04/20:55:04 MC They said they want to look at that, as well.

F1

Eh? I’m saying, there was a different paper* on in a different colour. That we haven’t put on this paper* in a different colour.

M1

Where?

F1

Have a look there. They’ve torn it. They’ve torn it and must have check*ed it, just in case ... on this. Can’t you see? This was torn before and this as well-

M1

Mm.

00:05:26/20:55:26 F1 Leaving everything else aside, these things for the remote* control*, video*, everything has been move*d. Mehvish has given this back ...

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?

... things.

00:05:33/20:55:33 F1 Eh, listen to me, why are they bothered about the video*s?

MC

You know my computer*.

F1

Yeah.

MC

They move*d all that, as well, you know on top/upstairs, they took all the tape*s, everything.

F1

That ... can’t you see it torn? They tore it and check*ed it inside, to see why new paper* has been put on.

00:05:48/20:55:48 M1 Mm.

F1

Yeah.

00:05:49/20:55:49 MC And this, daddy*, er the brown* tape* ... why did they take that outside?

M1

Mm?

MC

There was one in my room*, as well, in the drawer*.

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00:05:59/20:55:59 S Why (have/did) they took brown-

F1

What’s happened to the brown* tape*?

MC

They’ve taken that with them.

F1

Which brown*-

MC

They’ve taken daddy*’s tow*, that thing.

00:06:06/20:56:06 F1 Mm. No, but why did they take the brown* tape*? Why did they take the brown* tape*?

M1

So, that if a body is found tomorrow2, did we use brown* tape*. And they’ve taken the rope and the thing to tow* with.

F1

Mm.

M1

They’ve taken that.

F1

Mm. Yeah, so let them take it.

00:06:30/20:56:30 M1
2

And that personal* organiser* of mine-

The literal translation is ‘tomorrow’. However, it can also be used to mean ‘in the near future’.

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F1

Mm.

M

They’ve taken that, as well.

F1

You know that ... I swear, he is a real bastard. When he came in the morning, I said, “My husband* isn’t here”. “So, we want to do a search”. I said, “You’ve done it once already”, eh. He said, “No, we want to do another one today”, eh. So, I said, “Wait one minute* and let me phone* my husband* first”.

00:06:51/20:56:51 [End of section 1]

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Section 2 - AG 3/Tape 3 Tape commenced at 06:50 on 19/11/03 and ended at 11:00 on 19/11/03 01:31:34/08:21:34 [Start of section 2]

F1

Eh, and Saima?

S

Mm.

F1

Don’t tell anyone at school* that ... came.

S

Yeah. Mummy if Morgan asks, what should I say?

F1

Just say my sister* is missing*. Okay?

S

Mm. (And if/Teacher*) …

F1

I’m saying, don’t say anything. Just act as though you didn’t understand. Start talking about something else.

S

No but he/she knows ... came.

F1

...

S

What should I say?

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01:31:56/08:21:56 F1 [Whispered] Say my sister* is missing*.

S

Mm.

F1

[Whispered] And … for her-

01:32:07/08:22:07 S I…

F1

[Whispered] ...

S

Mum, what can I say? Eh? I will say what ... Morgan, the next* door* neighbours* came. [Laughs]

01:32:22/08:22:22 F1 Shall I cut it like this?

S

Eh?

F1

Shall I cut it like this ...

S

Mm.

F1

Or is it okay like this …

01:32:27/08:22:27 S ... cut it. Those are big ... [Clears throat] ...

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F1

...

S

I will say it.

01:32:41/08:22:41 F1 [Laughs] ... Morgan ... [Laughs]

S

... Yeah.

F1

Is it enough? Or should I make more?

S

It’s enough.

F1

Sure?

S

Mm.

F1

That ...

S

And if- if ... keep coming to our house, I will say they are checking everyone’s houses.

F1

Say everyone’s houses.

S

Yeah, I will say ...

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F1

No, what for? Leave it ... leave it. Now, child, everyone knows and now they are showing it on the TV* again.

01:33:06/08:23:06 S Really?

F1

Really. We will put the T.V. on, as well ... say ... put the T.V. on, put it on the news* ... news* ... (GMTV), put that on.

01:33:16/08:23:16 [End of section 2]

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Section 3 – PTC 1/Tape 4 Tape commenced at 11:00 on 19/11/03 and ended at 15:09 on 19/11/03 02:54:19/13:54:19 [Start section 3]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

F1

And as soon as you got there, you started your devilish ways.

M1

What devilish things did I do?

F1

Everything was devilish. Even if you were right, was it the right time for you? Was it appropriate for you to say all these things? So it comes back to that, was it appropriate for you? What kind of time was it for you? What kind of time was it for you? First, you tell me this. Was it appropriate for you? Did I not prepare you here? I phone*d you in Pakistan and I told you-

M1

...

F1

Please* don’t talk about people. Yeah, stop it.

02:54:44/13:54:44 M1 If you’ve got anything else to say, leave it.

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F1

You’re a pimp. You’re shameless. I’m going to say it to you clearly, I swear to Allah, everything happened because of you. That’s it, everything happened because of you.

02:54:52/13:54:52 M1 So blame it on me.

F1

Yeah. All because of you.

M1

Yeah do it.

F1

Everything happened because of you.

M1

Okay.

F1

Yeah.

M1

...

F1

If you’ve got the guts go and say “I did all this”.

M1

Okay.

F1

It comes back to that. Say it.

02:55:01/13:55:01 [End of section 3]

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Section 4 – AG 5/Tape 6 Tape commenced at 19:15 on 19/11/03 and ended at 07:05 on 20/11/03 00:20:36/19:35:36 [Start of section 4]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

F1

Yeah, so this means they will look at the mileage* of our car, as well, to see how much it is and how much it is not.

M1

For which one?

F1

What it was on which day*. Can they find out about the day*?

M1

For which one?

F1

The (next day/other one).

M1

No, no.

F1

Oh.

00:20:54/19:35:54 F1 They will look at it, not no no.

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M1

Mm?

F1

Not no no, they will look.

M1

For which one?

F1

This.

00:21:00/19:36:00 M1 And how can they find out about the mileage* from that?

F1

...

M1

There isn’t ...

00:21:05/19:36:05 F1 Who knows, they might have a way.

M1

Eh?

F1

There might be a way.

M1

Nonsense3. It is your total* mileage* for how much your car is used in a year.

F1

Well we have ten, ten trips (a day).

3

The literal translation is ‘donkey’s head’.

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M1

Eh?

F1

We have ten, ten journeys just to town*, so it comes back to that.

M1

Yeah, and then, so it is just for normal* use*. And when you go to visit people here and there, don’t you use* the car*. It is for this reason, isn’t it.

00:21:30/19:36:30 F1 We go to Manchester, as well.

M1

What are these sister fuckers going to find from my meter*?

00:21:38/19:36:38 M1 Now, this is stupidity, isn’t it, as the meter* doesn’t tell you that- the meter*, where someone has been and where he has come from. 00:21:46/19:36:46 F1 Who knows, they might find out, if you went to work on that day or not, if you came the next day, or not.

M1

Eh?

F1

If you came the next day, or not.

M1

Who?

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F1

Who knows ...

M1

And what has it got to do with that day?

[Door bell rings] 00:21:57/19:36:57 F1 Look before you go ...

00:21:59/19:36:59 [End of section 4]

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Section 5 – AG 5/Tape 6 Tape commenced at 19:15 on 19/11/03 and ended at 07:05 on 20/11/03 03:01:46/22:16:46 [Start of section 5]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

M1

And this phone* of yours, the phone* has been tap*ped.

F1

… knows if they have put a camera* in.

M1

Not a camera*. They can’t just put a camera* in. They need a court* warrant* for that. (Afterwards/The one outside)-

F1

Who knows, they might have got one. They might have got a court* warrant*.

03:02:08/22:17:08 M1 For that they need to have something on you and then. They are doing the investigation* first.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Once that is clear*, then. If any little thing comes out of that.

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F1

Mm.

M1

Then they will tell you.

03:02:19/22:17:19 F1 Mm. Who knows, they might have put one in.

03:02:29/22:17:29 F1 How do we know? They don’t ask us before putting them in.

M1

What?

F1

Camera*s.

M1

They can’t put them in houses. (It’s illegal).

03:02:39/22:17:39 F1 Rani said they can put them in …

M1

They can tap* your phone*s. They can do your mobile* phone*s.

F1

Mm.

M1

They can’t put a camera* in your house, this- this is- it’s illegal.

03:02:56/22:17:56 M1 … this …

03:03:14/22:18:14 M1 Your phone* calls, which come through.

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F1

Mm.

M1

Whichever ones you make.

F1

Mm.

M1

Right?

F1

Mm.

03:03:19/22:18:19 M1 They listen to those.

F1

Let them listen.

M1

Not, let them listen, check* everything you say … later on they will … what is this? … said.

03:03:52/22:18:52 F1 I’m saying, the car and … will have put it on/in. I swear, I’m saying …

M1

What?

F1

M1

Why?

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F1

When they turned everything upside down …

M1

When they turned everything upside down, whatever forensic* search* they did, whatever they have taken of yours, they have written down. Do you understand? If they are going to do anything like that- if they suspect you, they can’t put a camera* in the house. Outsideoutside they can listen to what you are saying.

03:04:29/22:19:29 F1 Stay inside then, for …

M1

Yeah … you have work to do out of the house …

03:04:44/22:19:44 F1 … seeing their tactics. Who knows if they have put one in.

03:04:48/22:19:48 [End of section 5]

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Section 6 – AG 7/Tape 8 Tape commenced at 11:05 on 20/11/03 and ended at 15:13 on 20/11/03 02:09:00/13:14:00 [Start of section 6]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

MC

Ten?

FC

Yeah.

MC

Why ten?

FC

… (time/fine). (‘Cause they) burn-

MC

(Then), I’ll just keep doing that.

F1

I’m saying … I want to tell you something. Don’t talk about anything in the house … do you know what Rani said? She said, you don’t know they might have put something in your house.

FC

Then?

?

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FC

If they have put a camera* in.

F1

Eh? She said, in the house … they have small things, which …

02:09:32/13:14:32 FC Oi, it’s burning.

MC

No it ain’t.

FC

I told you not to put it on (at all time.)

MC

I c- put it in at ten minutes.

02:09:42/13:14:42 FC (Yet/Yeah), still, you’re putting it on.

MC

You told me.

FC

Yeah, you tell me.

MC

You did, (though).

02:09:52/13:14:52 MC The North West ones (are on at half* one*).

02:09:58/13:14:58 F1 … I just remembered … spoke … let me see.

02:10:02/13:15:02

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[End of section 6]

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Section 7 – AG 8/Tape 9 Tape commenced at 15:13 on 20/11/03 and ended at 19:00 on 20/11/03 02:11:21/17:24:21 [Start of section 7]

F1

If you had spoken to them properly from the first day, they would have known. These people know everything. A person would have said, until you have proof*, you can’t do all this. First provide the proof* and then do it. First go and do your enquiry* with whoever you can. There are people here, as well. Go and ask everyone. Is there anything about marriage … is there anything. Since they’ve got the interview* from there-

M1

The people- do you know what they are saying.

02:11:40/17:24:40 F1 Yeah.

M1

Right. I’ve just spoken to one of our4 people, in front of you. And what did he say, that “They do not believe what you are saying because they want proof”.

02:11:50/17:24:50 F1 Yeah and that’s what I’m saying, if they had proof they could blame this on us.

4

‘Our people’ is referring to a person either from or originating from the Indian Sub-Continent.

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M1

Right.

F1

Now, they’ve blamed this on us, yeah.

M1

But they will go wherever they need to go for the proof.

F1

Mm.

M1

They’re not going to rely on what you’re saying.

02:11:59/17:24:59 F1 Mm. Yeah, so let them first go, that’s what I’m saying. What is the need for them to go on TV first.

M1

They’ve come on TV now because they are saying they want … the body*.

02:12:12/17:25:12 F1 So, first they should find the proof and then go towards the bodie*s.

M1

Where are they going to find the proof?

F1

Yeah, now they’re saying, “We are going to go to Pakistan”. They are going to Pakistan first, but they should get the proof first.

M1

And what, are they going to find the bo- body* from Pakistan?

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F1

Yeah, but it comes back to that again, that first they should come back from there and then they should do the body*. Yeah.

02:12:30/17:25:30 [End of section 7]

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Section 8 – AG 9/Tape 10 Tape commenced at 19:00 on 20/11/03 and ended at 07:00 on 21/11/03 02:26:57/21:26:57 [Start of section 8]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

MC

… a lot …

M1

Oi, you.

MC

… social services.-

M1

Listen to me, right. Listen*. You are a, right, you’re a danger to yourself.

F1

For him every single thing is nothing.

M1

(I’m telling you now). Sort yourself out.

[Sound of a chair being moved]

M1

Life is not a joke.

02:27:19/21:27:19

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M1

You need to take things seriously*, sometimes.

02:27:26/21:27:26 M1 For you everything is a game*.

02:27:28/21:27:28 [End of section 8]

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Section 9 – AG 9/Tape 10 Tape commenced at 19:00 on 20/11/03 and ended at 07:00 on 21/11/03 02:28:04/21:28:04 [Start of section 9]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

M1

Now, be careful of one thing, don’t fight amongst yourselves. Don’t even push anyone by* accidentally*.

F1

Yeah, if you are slightly hurt then, child, we will be blame*d for it, remember that-

M1

I’m telling you now, right, be very careful.

?

Mm.

02:28:20/21:28:20 F1 You have never been hit, have you? It shouldn’t be that we are blamed.

M1

This is what they’re looking for, now.

02:28:27/21:28:27 F1 Explain to this poor cat/monster.

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M1

Who?

F1

Him, here.

M1

This poor guy will be sorted out.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Don’t you worry. I will leave him there with them, for six months to a year, as well.

F1

Mm.

M1

He will be sorted out.

02:28:38/21:28:38 [End of section 9]

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Section 10 – AG 9/Tape 10 Tape commenced at 19:00 on 20/11/03 and ended at 07:00 on 21/11/03 02:33:51/21:33:51 [Start of section 10]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

F1

And he tells everyone at school*, I swear, no child has said anything, even though-

FC

F1

They know, she is my sister*, huh?

FC

And she came and asked me, and I didn’t know he had already* told her.

?

F1

Yeah.

FC

And so she says to me, “Is your sister* miss*ing?” And I said, “No, not mine”. She said, “Your brother* said.”

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MC

… sister* …

FC

Your sister is miss* …

?

Mm.

FC

I said, “No”.

?

FC

Not my sister*. [Laughs]

02:34:11/21:34:11 F1 No, I told you, he-

M1

You told her?

MC

I told (her). She-

M1

Yeah, and so then?

FC

MC

No, she came and said to me, I know about your sister*.

M1

No, you tell me this, one minute …

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MC

Yeah.

02:34:21/21:34:21 M1 Since we have said, from the first day, that there is no need to speak to anyone about this. No, so you-

MC

She knows about Shafilea.

[Laughter]

M1

Now, you are, I swear, I am going to pick my shoe up and split his head open.

F1

[Laughs] No, when did we say she doesn’t know? Did we say she doesn’t know?

M1

Now, everyone outside knows.

02:34:38/21:34:38 F1 Yeah.

M1

(Right?)

F1

Now, are we going to expose ourselves to them and say she is ours?

M1

Everyone knows, don’t they?

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F1

Yeah.

MC

(Yeah.)

M1

I go outside and work, don’t I. People know, don’t they?

MC

Yes.

M1

But I’ve never said it from my mouth that she is my- my daughter*.

02:34:51/21:34:51 F1 Saima is only little and I swear, she wouldn’t even tell Morgan-

M1

She is so much younger than you and she goes to school*.

F1

Yeah.

M1

And no youngster in her school* knows.

F1

Yeah and no child has asked her.

M1

And even if they know, no one has said anything to her.

F1

No one has, I swear, apart from this Morgan, no one has.

02:35:03/21:35:03

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M1

Eh? That’s why that-

S

M1

This social* guy said, “He’s a very good lad”.

S

… me.

M1

Because he talks about things.

02:35:08/21:35:08 S I say, “No*”.

F1

She is saying-

M1

You are a very good (boy).

F1

She is saying-

M1

This very* good* of yours-

F1

Huh?

M1

Will have us put inside.

02:35:15/21:35:15 [End of section 10]

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43

Section 11 – AG 9/Tape 10 Tape commenced at 19:00 on 20/11/03 and ended at 07:00 on 21/11/03 02:48:56/21:48:56 [Start of section 11]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

M1

This … this … you, as well … right*? This, “I thought” and “I thought this and that”, your “It is” and that “It will be”, this “It will be” and “It is”, stop all of this, right, to bring yourself to reality.

02:49:20/21:49:20 M1 “I thought this” and “I thought that”. This business of thinking should completely stop. Keep what is proper/right in your head. 02:49:32/21:49:32 M1 It shouldn’t be that the thinking leads to being put inside.

02:49:37/21:49:37 M1 So, you never ever talk about anything in your … Never.

02:49:48/21:49:48 S [Whispered] …

F1

Be quiet. Saima, be quiet.

[The section between 02:49:51 and 02:51:27 does not appear to contain any non-television speech]

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02:51:27/21:51:27 M1 I told you that day, that he had spoken to him about some things.

F1

Mm.

?

Huh?

M1

And he came home and said, “He only asked me my name and stuff”.

02:51:35/21:51:35 F1 Huh, and what is he saying?

M1

Huh?

F1

What is he saying?

M1

He says he had a lot of conversation* with him5. He is saying, “No … asked me …

02:51:46/21:51:46 S … asked my name* and hobbies* … whatever I like*.

?

02:52:00/21:52:00 M1 Oh, child, it is through talking about hobby*s they talk about things.

5

‘Him’ is referring to Junaid.

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F1

They don’t let people realise.

M1

No, so your hobby* ends up leading somewhere else. He said that you are v- very good*, so you have become big, now. Now, he has left …

02:52:21/21:52:21 MC Where? …

02:52:27/21:52:27 [End of section 11]

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46

Section 12 – AG 9/Tape 10 Tape commenced at 19:00 on 20/11/03 and ended at 07:00 on 21/11/03 02:55:21/21:55:21 [Start of section 12]

S

Mum, do you know what Junaid does in our room*?

F1

He farts?

S

Yeah.

F1

Mm.

S

Do you know what he does-

FC

S

He does it by sticking his bum in the air and does it.

F1

Let me tell you one thing, Junaid, if the slightest thing comes out of your mouth.

MC

What?

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F1

For all our/your lives, we will be stuck in real trouble, remember that. You won’t be able to find your mum or dad6, remember that. They take people away, I swear, Rukish.

02:55:47/21:55:47 [End of section 12]

The actual word is ‘chacha’ which means paternal uncle, but it is often used when referring to a father, as it appears in this context.

6

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Section 13 – AG 19/Tape 28 Tape commenced at 07:01 on 25/11/03 and ended at 11:01 on 25/11/03 03:29:10/10:30:10 [Start of section 13]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

S

All over.

F1

Now, if she does it again.

FC

F1

Then I swear, Saima, you have my permission to take your shoes* off and hit her on the face with them.

FC

Mum, she’s just …

F1

Listen* to what I am saying to you. Just listen*. I know what you are doing. You’ve still not learned your lesson and even if it is Eid, you are going to get hit, let me tell you. What do you want? First, tell me?

FC

Mum, I (did) nothing.

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F1

No, what is it you want? What do you want? What day is it today?

03:29:34/10:30:34 FC It is Eid.

F1

So, what is the matter?

03:29:37/10:30:37 F1 Get up. Move* to there. Move*. Move* over more, away from here. Go on. And you, as well.

S

Yes.

F1

I’m saying it is not necessary to eat like dogs on Eid. Are you listening to me. Daughters of pigs, do you know anything else apart from eating and you can’t even survive without eating a massive amount- look at how your face it’s puffed up. Is she bother*ed about what her mother and father- what I am going through. It’s all about eating. No one is bother*ed about their sister, about anything. You stuff your face and fart and that’s it.

03:30:03/10:31:03 F1 That’s what I’m saying. That slut is acting as if she is relieved. The face is getting puffed up. And you behave7 yourself, as well. Today is not a day to be beaten up, okay. Are you listening to me? I’m talking to you Saim-ieh.

7

The Panjabi phrase is ‘bandeh di ti ban’, which means, ‘become the daughter of a human’.

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S

Me?

F1

Yeah. You learn to become decent8, as well.

03:30:27/10:31:27 [End of section 13]

8

The Panjabi phrase is ‘insaan di ti ban na sikh’, which means ‘learn to become the daughter of a human’.

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51

Section 14 – PTC7/Tape 30 Tape commenced at 15:01 on 25/11/03 and ended at 18:47 on 25/11/03 03:33:22/18:34:22 [Start of section 14]

M1

Listen to me.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Whatever Tariq said.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Right?

F1

Yeah.

M1

He is one hundred percent right. He said, that that person.

03:33:29/18:34:29 F1 Yeah.

M1

Clearly committed murder.

F1

Yeah.

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M1

Right?

F1

(Yeah.)

03:33:33/18:34:33 M1 But by getting the support of the newspapers, he got away with the murder.

F1

Yeah.

M1

These are the ones who save you.

F1

Yeah.

M1

And these are also the ones who can put you inside.

F1

Get you inside … yeah.

M1

Right? So, don’t lose them.

03:33:43/18:34:43 F1 Yeah. That’s why I am saying, you say you are going to do this to them …

M1

No, no, I never said it like that. I am going to tell them to come and-

F1

Yeah.

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M1

Listen to our story*.

F1

Yeah.

03:33:51/18:34:51 [Speech in background] 03:33:52/18:34:52 M1 I am going to say to the solicitor that complete*ly, to all the press*-

F1

No, you should say to the police*- the police* that “I never wanted to give it before”-

M1

And no, I am (not) going to request* the police*, that listen*-

F1

That I- yeah, yeah.

03:33:59/18:34:59 M1 The story* you have given.

F1

Yeah.

M1

You have given from your side.

F1

Yeah, now I-

M1

Right?

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F1

Want to give it from my side.

M1

Now, I want to tell them, that exactly* what has happened.

F1

Yeah, yeah. [Whispered] Tariq is really … report* …

03:34:12/18:35:12 M1 It’s right, I’m telling you.

F1

[Whispered] …

M1

No, no. He is saying, get the blame off your head. He knows, right?* That’s why he said it. He said, “Take the blame off your head, that there is a third person involved”.

F1

Yeah.

03:34:24/18:35:24 M1 He’s not wrong. The advice he has given you, he said this, he said, “You save yourself”. He knows about it … you … (stupid*), you should be careful, that is, but now you should use* your own brain. Don’t think that this is dishonour and that is dishonour. Forget the dishonour, put it on some other sister fucker, so they go and look for them.

F1

[Whispered] …

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M1

Use* some sense, as well. In case you’re thinking, this will happen or that will happen. Sod it. It will be less than this, won’t it.

F1

Yeah.

03:34:53/18:35:53 [End of section 14]

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56

Section 15 – AG 21/Tape 31 Tape commenced at 19:47 on 25/11/03 and ended at 07:00 on 26/11/03 02:46:03/22:33:03 [Start of section 15]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

F1

If only we had the S- SIM* card* from the first phone*, eh? That had a lot of number*s, I swear, of lots of boys, on the SIM* … never mind the … it was true. If only I had kept the number*s, I was silly, I threw them away, a little while ago. You told me-

M1

There is no need to keep the number*s.

F1

You told me, why have you kept it?

M1

F1

Yeah.

M1

There is no need to keep the number*s.

F1

Yeah.

02:46:23/22:33:23

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M1

Have you got that phone* number*?

F1

The first one?

M1

Yeah.

F1

The very first one she had?

M1

The very first one and which was the first one?

02:46:32/22:33:32 F1 The very first one she had, when she had the Nokia phone*.

M1

Mm.

F1

[Whispered] … do you know that … number*s … that had all the number*s.

M1

We know about that one, that we don’t about it/we don’t know where it is.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Which number* did that have?

F1

The second* phone* she had, eh?

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M1

That had it, as well?

F1

That had them, as well, but the thing was, she wouldn’t give it to us but that had them, as well. I even spoke to one boy, eh, on the phone* and I phone*d from the house [Whispered] … But (I spoke to one myself, Shafik), or whatever his name was.

02:47:03/22:34:03 M1 This thing, right.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Not this. What is her/his phone* number*?

F1

No, I told you, I kept the SIM* card* and … in …

M1

No, no, what is her/his phone* number*?

02:47:11/22:34:11 F1 What about her/his? That one … know …

M1

I feel like showing them that- that phone* number* in the morning.

F1

Yeah.

M1

That to say, go back six month.

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F1

Mm. Yeah.

M1

Go back before then.

F1

Yeah.

M1

Look, this is the phone* number*.

02:47:25/22:34:25 F1 Yeah.

M1

Check* on this, where the phone* call*s-

F1

From where the calls-

M1

Have been coming from.

F1

Have been coming from. Yeah.

02:47:37/22:34:37 M1 And now, do you know what, that is right, for them to involve* a third* party*.

F1

Yeah. Do what? It is involved, which, is causing all of this/having all this done.

02:47:49/22:34:49

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M1

That we suspect someone-

F1

Yeah.

M1

Has forced her.

F1

Has done it, yeah.

M1

But we don’t know who they are, who have-

F1

Yeah.

02:48:47/22:35:47 M1 Mm?

F1

[Whispered] …

M1

Whose? Mm. Mm.

02:48:54/22:35:54 F1 [Whispered] … won’t …

M1

This head of yours, straighten your head out.

F1

No … what …

M1

I’m saying, keep it straight. Forgot those things and move forward.

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02:49:10/22:36:10 [End of section 15]

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62

Section 16 – PTC 11/Tape 37 Tape commenced at 11:00 on 27/11/03 and ended at 15:04 on 27/11/03 02:21:01/13:21:01 [Start of section 16]

F1

Now, how do they know what it’s all about.

M1

So, what have you said?

F1

There is nothing. But they- what we have said and what they are going to say, do you know that?

02:21:09/13:21:09 M1 Who?

F1

Them.

M1

Your mother doesn’t know anything about what goes on in our house here, so what is she going to say?

02:21:17/13:21:17 F1 She can say about the girls, that they were going to be left here (for good). They were going to be left here. 02:21:22/13:21:22 M1 Why?

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F1

What does she know? It comes back to that- that again, what to say or not to say. And now you are reading all sorts of nonsense.

02:21:30/13:21:30 M1 If you want to speak to your mother, then speak to your mother.

02:21:36/13:21:36 F1 They are going to … everyone.

M1

Who is left behind9 there, now?

F1

M1

Uncle and aunty10 have come here.

F1

They even asked, “Who went with you?” So, what was I supposed to say about who went? I said, “I went” and I- I said, what’s his name, “My sis- my sister’s husband went with me to the hospital”.

02:21:51/13:21:51 M1 Right.

F1

Okay, “Yeah, and there was the person driving the car. So, first, the car, did you do a taxi*? What did you do?”

M1

Mm.

9

10

‘Behind’ in this context relates to Pakistan. This is a reference to a paternal uncle and aunty.

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F1

I said (“I don’t know), somebody did a taxi*. I don’t know the name but it was somebody”. I never said who it was or wasn’t and nor did they ask, who it was.

M1

Mm.

F1

I said, “Somebody booked the car”.

02:22:08/13:22:08 F1 That’s what I’m saying, they are going to make a point* out of everything that is said. Uncle11 was saying that since last night, they are saying why they have gone there, to Pakistan to make an enquiry*. 02:22:16/13:22:16 M1 Okay.

02:22:21/13:22:21 F1 And you have spent your entire life stirring, when there is something like this, it’s like what Rahmat says, you should act calmly and not act with rage. This stirring of yours, I swear, has been causing us issues all our lives. Just a little- it comes back to that, when a person bows down, even bows before Allah. You say, “I don’t care about anyone”. That ‘care’ of yours is what comes back on to you, right. 02:22:44/13:22:44 M1 No, so what do you want to say to them, now? Come on tell me, what are you going to say now?

11

This is a reference to a maternal uncle.

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F1

Going to say what? Going to say whatever you have said, what are we going to say, now, I- it comes back to that. You’re reading that lesson, that book*. It comes back to that … what has been read in our house? So, it comes back to that, what have you read? If it was me, what have you read?

02:23:00/13:23:00 M1 Now, get out. Go.

F1

Eh?

M1

Get out.

02:23:27/13:23:27 F1 What am I going to say to them. Even that, as my poor mum doesn’t know. I even said that to uncle12 on the phone*. I said, “My mum doesn’t even know about this. And nor have we ever told anyone anything about ourselves”. If they can go to people’s houses here and spend two hours at a time, don’t you think they are going to go there and spend time with them. 02:23:23/13:23:23 M1 And this entire lie will be found out.

F1

It’s not a lie, okay.

12

This is a reference to a maternal uncle.

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M1

Mm.

F1

She said it.

M1

Said what?

F1

She said, first they phone*d.

M1

Mm.

02:23:30/13:23:30 F1 And then they came to our house. And they even went as far as to ask, “Where did you meet?” I said, “At my sister-in-law’s house”. “And then where did you meet them again? How many times did you go to the hospital to ask their daughter?” They asked every little thing. Don’t you say this is a lie. 02:23:41/13:23:41 M1 No, but is this a crime?

F1

It is not a crime but they have asked about everything.

M1

They’ve asked, but it’s not a crime, is it.

F1

Yeah. “Did she/he ever speak to you?” “Were they going to go and do her marriage?” “What date did they go?” “What did they do?”

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Everything. They said, “We haven’t written any dates. We know they …

M1

All the force is being put on this thing.

F1

Yeah …

02:23:58/13:23:58 M1 Right? On the marriage.

F1

Yeah.

M1

And they can clear* it up about the marriage.

F1

Yeah.

M1

That’s what all the fuss is about, isn’t it?

F1

Yeah.

M1

They can clear* that up.

F1

Yeah.

02:24:04/13:24:04 M1 The family in which the marriage was supposed to happen.

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F1

Yeah.

M1

They can go to their house and ask them what was said. It will stop, there and then.

F1

Yeah.

M1

And then there is no need for them to go here and there.

02:24:13/13:24:13 [End of section 16]

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69

Section 17 – PTC 11/Tape 37 Tape commenced at 11:00 on 27/11/03 and ended at 15:04 on 27/11/03 02:27:21/13:27:21 [Start of section 17]

F1

But the proof, it comes back to that, at the moment, us- they are- as it all comes back on to us, at the moment they are … us-

M1

If it was on us, eh, then you wouldn’t be sat here.

F1

Yeah.

02:27:30/13:27:30 M1 Even now the police* have said that, she said, “We only want to eliminate* you from the enquiry*”. All the rest have been done, the little one13 is left. 02:27:39/13:27:39 F1 And where will she do hers?

M1

She will go and get hers from the school* and she says, “We will get it check*ed right now”.

F1

Yeah.

13

This relates to a female child.

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M1

Then, I will phone* you afterwards, as to whether the car is clear* or not.”

F1

Mm.

02:27:48/13:27:48 M1 Only, b- that’s it. “If there was anything on you, you would have been inside by now”.

F1

If there was something, then they would have done it, or would they put us inside for nothing.

M1

And so? That’s what I’m telling you, that there needs to be some girl fucking proof, or is it just like that?

F1

But, I’m just saying that …

M1

Forget what people are saying, don’t just sit there and take it all in. Let it in one ear and out the other. Here, everything works on proof. Without any proof, even if you sister fuckers kill forty people, until it is found, they can’t do anything to you.

02:28:22/13:28:22 F1 Now, I’m saying, they are just going to go to Pakistan and ask around …

M1

They will already* know in Pakistan.

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F1

Mm.

M1

Let me tell you this, the way they are just talking nonsense.

F1

They don’t know.

02:28:31/13:28:31 [End of section 17]

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Section 18 – PTC 11/ Tape 37 Tape commenced at 11:00 on 27/11/03 and ended at 15:04 on 27/11/03 02:39:53/13:39:53 [Start of section 18]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

F1

Didn’t go, but they won’t leave us alone.

M1

They won’t leave us but all it is, is that they want to clear* this up. That’s why they took the meter* out from my car.

02:40:05/13:40:05 F1 No, but what will they find out from mine? Mine doesn’t have any meter*.

M1

What will they do-

F1

Will they look at the mileage*?

M1

With your car?

F1

Who knows, they might look at the mileage* of each* day*.

M1

A car’s mileage* for each* day* can never be check*ed.

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02:40:17/13:40:17 F1 [Whispered] (Who knows) …

M1

Oh, for god’s sake, this- yours- and I think my mind is going, as well-

F1

No … who knows, they might have a …

M1

What will there be?

02:40:23/13:40:23 F1 A mileage* check*ing (system*/thing).

M1

What are they going to check* on that?

F1

So, they can do it. I’m just …

M1

But tell me, what are they going to check* on that? There’s nothing in the cars- if you use* your car every* day*, the annual mileage* is written on the MOT*.

02:40:34/13:40:34 F1 Mm.

02:40:39/13:40:39 M1 If there was anything like that, right*, then the sister fuckers would have done this on you ages ago. 02:40:45/13:40:45 [End of section 18]

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74

Section 19 – PTC 12/Tape 38 Tape commenced at 15:04 on 27/11/03 and ended at 18:30 on 27/11/03 02:30:56/17:34:56 [Start of section 19]

F1

And, child, now you should … a little … your things. [Shouts] And don’t put the money* in the school* one. I told you downstairs, you bastard. That entire drawer* is getting damaged. Junaid, you are becoming … and I swear, at some point you are going to get beaten up by me and I am going to kill you, you remember this. I told you before, don’t put it in the school* one.

02:31:20/17:35:20 F1 [Shouts] If you are just going to act spoilt, sitting in front of the T.V. … all. Go and give it upstairs, my child. I get really irritated.

FC

(You have to go up.)

MC

I am.

02:31:26/17:35:26 F1 That’s what I’m saying go and give it upstairs.

MC

02:31:28/17:35:28 [End of section 19]

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Section 20 – AG 24/Tape 39 Tape commenced at 18:30 on 27/11/03 and ended at 07:08 on 28/11/03 01:39:39/20:09:39 [Start of section 20]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

M1

They have no connection with this. There is no connection with anyone else.

01:40:03/20:10:03 F1 Because I said, who knows if they have found out about the college* in London and they just- use it against us.

M1

Who?

F1

M1

Eh?

F1

… you.

01:40:16/20:10:16 M1 Listen to me, the thing is, have you gone mad?

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F1

(Why/What?) And by the way, tell me, when there is a private* matter, let me give you a lesson, now, if you hadn’t spoken about this marriage proposal, then I swear to Allah, they would never have pushed this further. Since they asked me if there was anything to state and I said there isn’t anything. What was the need for you to say, my uncle*, my so and so and my so and so …

M1

This thing … my-

F1

That’s why I said-

M1

No, no, no, no.

F1

Going into such detail.

M1

Stop this arguing.

01:40:42/20:10:42 F1 I’m not arguing. That’s why I’m saying …

M1

Uncle*’s name- sister fucker, didn’t we get phone* calls, which she herself went and told her friends, “Where they are doing my-”.

F1

Said to the friends- the friends …

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M1

And (Shafilea) had already told those sister fuckers, so how are you (going to hide it).

F1

… she would have told her friends other things that, “They have done this to me”, so it comes back to that. So it comes back to that-

M1

Comes back to what?

F1

Comes back to that …

M1

What did we do to her?

01:41:00/20:11:00 F1 Yeah, and that’s what I’m saying. Forget what she says. Don’t say that she says it. She had gone and said other things, as well.

M1

But even if it was said/happened, it doesn’t mean that we accepted the marriage proposal.

F1

All right, that’s what I’m saying, even if she kept asking you, you should have said, “I’m just (worried about my health*) go- I will go. What need is there for you to say, I’m going to meet him and …

M1

And so, what about the solicitor. Do you appoint a solicitor in secret?

F1

Even still, you don’t talk about your personal things.

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01:41:21/20:11:21 [End of section 20]

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Section 21 – AG 24/Tape 39 Tape commenced at 18:30 on 27/11/03 and ended at 07:08 on 28/11/03 03:19:49/21:49:49 [Start section 21]

[The following section contains speech in the background from the television]

F1

[Whispered] I’m saying … the car … (three times).

M1

What are they going to find in the car?

F1

[Whispered] …

M1

Leave it out.

03:20:05/21:50:05 F1 [Whispered] …

M1

Eh?

F1

[Whispered] … there is something … people …

03:20:13/21:50:13 M1 They are just doing that, don’t worry about it.

03:21:00/21:51:00

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F1

No, and even if there is saliva in the car, it’s not as if she didn’t sit in the car, no so it comes back to that, what is so secret about that?

?

[Whispered] …

03:21:17/21:51:17 ? Mm?

F1

[Whispered] Who knows … our …

M1

… you are really doing … girl … you’re just talking rubbish.

F1

… went to Pakistan …

03:21:41/21:51:41 M1 They can bring whatever they want. Is he/she in Pakistan now? So, they went to Pakistan, and that’s why the sister fuckers are going on the marriage proposal. So, fucking what, whatever happened over there. (Does it/Doesn’t) make any difference? 03:22:04/21:52:04 M1 She went to Pakistan, so weren’t all the other kids with her in Pakistan, as well. 03:22:22/21:52:22 F1 Whatever there is, is down to the teacher* and girls …

M1

It’s all right, don’t worry about it. I’ve told the solicitor about that, as well.

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F1

Mm.

M1

He says, “Don’t worry about it”. If they have said this thing, or they have put that in her head, then what proof* do they have? What do they know? What do they14 know about you? What do they know about your family*? What do they know about your culture*? They know fucking nothing-

F1

Yeah, then you should have said, you should have said, that they didn’t even- it’s like when a person hears of something, they should say, they were upset by it or something-

M1

I said it.

F1

Yeah.

03:22:56/21:52:56 [End of section 21]

14

‘They’ relates to a group of females.

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Section 22 – PTC 13/Tape 41 Tape commenced at 11:42 on 28/11/03 and ended at 15:20 on 28/11/03 03:08:32/14:50:32 [Start of section 22]

M2

Mm.

F1

Brother, they found Wasim’s email* and address* and phone* number*.

M2

All right.

F1

They photocopie*d that and gave it back to us. I said, “If you want to take them, take them”.

M2

F1

I said to Naseer, as well, I said, “We can’t phone* from home/the house because our- we know that they know everything because they have done something.

M2

F2

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F1

They have done it. Our- (fault/I swear), brother, I- you don’t believe it but I don’t even say that much because I’m saying that who knows, what they have done in our house-

M2

No, it’s right, absolutely right …

F2

Have done.

F1

(They) have done. No-

M2

(You never know/There’s no doubt in that.)

F1

These days, they say they can put those small things in-

M2

There-

F1

They can …

M2

There- there is no doubt in that.

03:08:58/14:50:58 F2 Yeah … say.

F1

Brother, they kept my mobile* for a whole week*. They kept Junaid’s for a whole week*. They kept his15 and they say people- they can put

15

In this context ‘his’ is used in reference to her husband.

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in particular types of chip*s and they can listen to what you are saying.

F2

It’s right.

M2

F1

Even if it is a pay* and* go* one.

03:09:07/14:51:07 M2 It’s right, exactly-

F2

F1

They have all these things, for things like that-

M2

It’s right, exactly.

03:09:10/14:51:10 F1 I said, “I can’t phone* you, so you phone* Wasim, so that if they ask him anything”- and really, I swear, sister, no one knows anything about why she is ill and why not- and about marriage, in front of you, sister, now, even you know-

F2

Yeah …

F1

It is not easy to have a marriage done.

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F2

M2

It’s right.

F1

Or, brother, who was the person who was going to get married. Or even if-

M

F1

Ifthikar knows …

F2

No. Farzana.

F1

Yeah.

F2

At the end of the day, you do have the thoughts.

F1

Have them, yes.

F2

And all- I said to Haji.

F1

Yes.

F2

I said.

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F1

Yes.

F2

All people ask their daughters-

F1

Ask their daughters, yes, ask them.

F2

Don’t we ask?

03:09:33/14:51:33 [End of section 22]

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Section 23 – AG 26/Tape 44 Tape commenced at 11:45 on 04/12/03 and ended at 15:45 on 04/12/03 00:17:04/12:02:04 [Start of section 23]

M2

All right.

F1

And I said, “I went”. And “Who went with you? Who went with her?” I said, “My sister*s husband* went as well”.

M2

Mm.

F1

I…

M2

Yes, yes, that’s right.

F2

Mm.

00:17:11/12:02:11 F1 Now, you know, I- now, his16 brother isn’t (in the papers), I couldn’t say …

M2

… not the brother …

F1

I said, my sister*, her husband, I said he went with me.

16

In this context, ‘his’ is used as a term of respect for one’s husband.

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M2

… went.

F1

… went. And I said-

M2

Mm.

F1

We went there.

00:17:19/12:02:19 M2 Mm.

F1

“Hospital name?” I said, “I don’t know, there on that (lane*/line*) … hospital … name.

F2

Yeah, it’s not as if …

F1

I don’t know and it’s true, I swear, sister, I don’t know the name of that hospital-

F2

M

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F1

That hospital name. Yeah, I said, “(Anyway*/It’s not that), if you still want to know, we will ask but I don’t know right now, what the name of the hospital is, I-

M2

… Mm.

F1

I said it was night time* and I was really upset*, myself. I said, I don’t know which hospital it was or wasn’t.

M2

00:17:39/12:02:39 F1 That’s it, end of story. Even now, brother dear, however they could, they should have come for one minute and asked us, without asking us about this through* the phone*.

F2

F1

Okay, he/they didn’t have to come, whoever wanted to come could have come. Arif could have come, or whoever could have come, they could have said, “Well, you know through the papers who my parents are”.

F2

It’s right.

00:17:52/12:02:52

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F1

Now, since they have interview*ed them and Arif, as well, and they kept saying, “He is your big brother and so he would have consulted you.

F2

Would have done it …

F1

That we are going to have a wedding.

00:17:59/12:02:59 [End of section 23]

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Section 24 – AG 26/Tape 44 Tape commenced at 11:45 on 04/12/03 and ended at 15:45 on 04/12/03 00:20:22/12:05:22 [Start of section 24]

M2

No, we know about this …

F2

… say this. He isn’t going to say it.

F1

Just say that they went over there and did an enquiry*-

M2

No, no, he’s not going to say that-

F2

He never talked about that.

M2

I told you before that I’ve told Haji that even if they come home/to the house, tell them this.

00:20:31/12:05:31 F1 Tell them this, yeah.

M1

Yeah, so it comes back to that …

M2

That’s right, isn’t it? I said that before.

F1

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00:20:34/12:05:34 M2 The only issue is the papers in the village, you go to the house.

F2

Yeah.

F1

This is it. This is …

M2

I don’t know about the village people. I came for this reason …

F1

This …

F2

Yeah.

F1

Yes …

00:20:41/12:05:41 M2 I have only come here for this reason.

F1

That’s what I was going to say to you.

M2

Yes.

F1

They are going to go as far as showing a photo*.

M2

Because-

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F1

Who’s son is this?

00:20:40/12:05:40 F2 Yeah.

M2

You know I haven’t said anything on the telephone* …

F

M2

… not … on your telephone*.

F1

Yes, yes … will do it.

M2

Because it is possible it could be tape*d.

F1

… what is happening.

M2

What do you think?

F1

... that’s right.

00:20:53/12:05:53 M2 That’s why I came here, especial*ly-

F1

Yes.

M2

Listen.

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F1

Yes.

M2

I came here today, with the intention-

F1

Yes.

M2

I said, (bring that up again)-

F1

Yes.

M2

Your … what have you thought, you can only ask brothers and sisters, what else can brothers and sisters do-

F1

Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s right. That’s right.

M2

But my aim was-

F1

Yes, yes.

M2

It was that in the papers-

F1

Yes.

M2

You should write Mian Khan.

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00:21:06/12:06:06 F1 Yes, son, that’s right.

M2

That’s how it is, isn’t it? When the enquiry* goes to the village.

00:21:09/12:06:09 F1 Yes.

M2

Okay, so the enquiry* goes to the village. Okay, that, yes, I mean, here, … someone will say Mian Khan’s house is here.

F1

Yes.

M2

“Why did they go here?”

F1

Yes.

M2

“Who is he?”

F1

Who is he. Yeah.

00:21:17/12:06:17 [End of section 24]

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Section 25 – AG 26/Tape 44 Tape commenced at 11:45 on 04/12/03 and ended at 15:45 on 04/12/03 00:22:59/12:07:59 [Start of section 25]

F1

Do you know what, brother dear, this now … isn’t … house …

M1

That … isn’t anything.

F1

Yeah, but there is, If they ask a stranger.

M

Yes.

F1

He will say, that he er is Sarwar’s son. This only little thing-

M

F2

F1

They might come back and do it-

M2

Yes, yes-

F2

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F1

But they can’t do anything else.

00:23:11/12:08:11 M1 …

M2

Do you know what-

F1

Yeah.

M2

Even if they find out about Sarwar.

F1

Yes.

M2

It doesn’t matter.

F1

Yes.

M2

They will just think-

F1

Yes.

M2

That however many statements were given by the people from Bradford-

F1

Yes.

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M2

They were all lies.

F1

They have been lying.

00:23:20/12:08:20 [End of section 25]

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Section 26 – AG 26/Tape 44 Tape commenced at 11:45 on 04/12/03 and ended at 15:45 on 04/12/03 01:12:28/12:57:28 [Start of section 26]

M2

Yes, yes.

M1

It’s been s- eighteen years since-

M2

Yes, yes.

M1

I had a wife before I married her and I had a child, as well, you know don’t you.

M2

Right, I know.

M1

Eh?

M2

It was like that.

M1

It was this same uncle17 who made me leave him/it.

M2

Mhm.

01:12:40/12:57:40

17

This is a reference to a paternal uncle.

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M1

I’ve kept that in my heart and haven’t said anything up until now. And now my other children are being taken away from me, as well.

M2

Mm.

M1

Now, I can’t cope with it.

01:12:51/12:57:51 [End of section 26]

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