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CPUC PPH Los Angeles Transcript

CPUC PPH Los Angeles Transcript

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California Public Utilities Commission Public Participation Hearing on smart meter opt-out fees held in five regions of CA in Dec., 2012. CPUC official transcript of meeting held in Los Angeles, California. Many speakers complaining of health impacts of smart meters. None in favor of fees.

California Public Utilities Commission Public Participation Hearing on smart meter opt-out fees held in five regions of CA in Dec., 2012. CPUC official transcript of meeting held in Los Angeles, California. Many speakers complaining of health impacts of smart meters. None in favor of fees.

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BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE AMY YIP-KIKUGAWA, presiding

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

PUBLIC PARTICIPATION HEARING Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT Los Angeles, California December 17, 2012 Pages 822 - 903 Volume - 8

Reported by:

Ana M. Gonzalez, CSR No. 11320

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 MR. JINBACHIAN MS. KAN MS. KIEHL MR. FUSCO MR. KAZAZIAN MS. AXNESS MR. DAY MS. LEVINE MS. BRUCE MS. GREGORY MS. BARRIS MR. GREY MS. HERTEL MS. BOIVIN MR. SOSENKO MR. JASON MS. HARDISON MS. BARTON MR. CANGEMI MS. ACKERMAN MR. McSPADDEN MR. SACKS MS. BRUNOEHLER MR. SCHAEFER MR. CORREIA MS. COLLISON

STATEMENTS

830 832 833 835 837 840 843 845 848 851 853 856 858 860 861 862 865 866 868 870 872 875 876 878 880 881

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MR. LEVY MS. MAKSHANOFF MS. WALKER MS. VALLADOLID MS. DHUN MAY MS. ARMAITI MAY MS. ROSS-BLUMER MR. BLUMER MR. HYMAN

882 884 887 889 890 893 895 897 900

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 you.

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA DECEMBER 17, 2012 - 6:00 P.M. * * * * *

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE YIP-KIKUGAWA: We will be on the record. The Commission will come to order. This is time and place set by the Commission for the public participation hearing in Applications 11-03-014, 11-03-015, and 11-07-020 addressing cost and cost allocation issues related to providing an option for gas and electric utility residential customers who do not wish to have a smart meter installed at their location. And good evening, everyone. I'm

Administrative Law Judge Amy Yip-Kikugawa. The assigned commissioner in this proceeding is President Michael Peevey. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Turn the volume up. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: volume. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Put the speaker Sir, there is no We can't hear

in front so we can hear, if you want to be heard. Get closer to the mike. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: record. (Off the record) Let's go off the

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 begin. here.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Back on the record.

This is, as I said, a public participation hearing. that is. of you. That is exactly what

I am here to hear comments from all I am not here to answer questions or

to make any comments of my own other than this short introduction. If you would like to make a comment this evening, you should have signed up outside at the desk with the Public Advisor. If you have not yet done so and you do wish to make a comment, please go do so now. A couple of housekeeping rules as we First, I do have a court reporter She is here to the take down every So I do ask that you all

word that you say.

be respectful as people are speaking and not make noise so that she can get an accurate transcript. The transcript will be given to So they

each commissioner for their review.

will also have an opportunity to, even though they are not here today, to read what is said at this hearing. When I do call your name up I will ask you to come up and speak into the microphone. Please speak slowly and please

also spell your name for the reporter. We do have a timer down here.

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Everybody will have three minutes to speak. She will give you a warning when you have one minute left and also a notice when time is up. Our hearing is scheduled to last two hours. And I would like to make sure that

everyone does have an opportunity to speak. So please do not exceed the three-minute time limit. Before we go forward with the speakers I just wanted to give a brief outline of what is going on in this proceeding in terms of how a decision will be made. The -- earlier this year the

Commission had issued three decisions which directed Pacific Gas & Electric Company, Southern California Edison Company, and San Diego Gas & Electric Company to modify their advance metering infrastructure programs to include an opt-out option. At the time they

ordered the opt-out options to be implemented, they also adopted NRCs. At this point of the proceeding we are going into a Phase 2 which is to look at the permanent fees for opting out in terms of what costs should be recovered from ratepayers, and also how those costs should be spread out, who should pay those fees.

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For Southern California Gas Company they have a separation application out with the Commission right now that is pending to also modify their advance metering infrastructure program. It hasn't been acted

on, but the interim Southern California Gas Company is participating in Phase 2. So that

once a decision is issued on that, they will also have their fees that they will implement and put in place along with everyone else. For this proceeding we are developing a record from the perspective of the parties, evidentiary hearings, and also filing of briefs. In addition to the four

utilities, there are numerous consumer groups that have been actively participating in the proceeding, and that includes the Commission's own Division of Ratepayer Advocates as well as The Utility Reform Network. All of these parties have, for the evidentiary hearings, have had an opportunity to submit testimony and to cross-examine witnesses. We will also have, again, the

filing of briefs from the parties. The record is also going to consist of comments from the public, and that is why I'm here today, is to hear from all of you.

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As I develop my proposed decisions, once all of the evidence has been put into the record I will be considering everything which includes comments from the public. So I've

heard a number of times where you have said, you know, at Commission meetings we speak and you don't hear us. am here to hear you. what you say. When I develop my decision I will be writing a proposed decision for consideration by the commissioners. A commissioner may not I do want to tell you I I am here to consider

agree with my proposed outcome, and they will write what is called an alternate proposed decision that will have a different outcome than mine. The four commissioners would then

vote on the proposed decision, and whatever is voted on as a final decision is a decision of the Commission. What I would like to also do now is just introduce a few people before we go into the public comment period. And the first

opinion person I would like to introduce is over here on my right, that is Mr. Jinbachian. Advisor's office. He is with our Public And what I would like to

do is have him just give a few words of what the Public Advisor does and how they help

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people who wish to participate in our proceedings. STATEMENT OF MR. JINBACHIAN MR. JINBACHIAN: Thank you, your Honor. My name

Good evening, and welcome. is Varouj Jinbachian. I'm with the

California Public Utilities Commission, the Public Advisor's office. I will ask if you have a mobile device if you would put on it silence so we don't interrupt other speakers. As the judge said, we sign up speakers outside. If you would like to

speak, sign up outside. Additionally, if you would like to submit written comments to us, we have an agenda outside. On the back of the agenda is

our e-mail address or regular mail address. We collect those comments, and we route them to the offices of the commissioners and judge for review of those comments. In addition to that, on the back of our agenda we also have a link for a subscription service. It is free. All you

have to do is sign up, and you will receive updates on this proceeding. If you have any

other questions, please either see me outside or you can talk to me after the hearing.

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Thank you, and welcome. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. The

other people that I would like to introduce at this point, there are representatives here from both Southern California Edison and Southern California Gas Company. They are

here to address any comments or concerns that you may have. You may speak with them

separately either after the hearings or at some point you can go outside. What I would like to do is introduce Mr. Bostick (phonetic) from Southern California Edison Company. hand over there. He is raising his

There is also Mr. Mendoza

who is from Southern California Gas Company. He is over there. are available. So both of those gentlemen

There are other people from

their regulatory group. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Please stand up.

There are also

outside customer service representatives from both Southern California Edison Company and Southern California Gas Company. So if you

have any questions on your bill, if you wish to sign up for the opt-out option, you may do so with them. So at this point I would like to proceed with the public comment period. And

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what I will do is as I call your name, please come forward. I will call two names at a

time so that we can move through our list today. First speaker is Virginia Kiehl followed by Terri Kan. come up first. STATEMENT OF MS. KAN MS. KAN: Okay. Ready to begin. So if Ms. Kiehl would

First, smart meters should have never been installed anywhere due to proven health dangers to people, their pets, and all living things including bees that pollinate our food and supply our honey. I personally won't have any place to live if these are installed in my neighborhood or anywhere in L.A. My cell

phone protection device won't help me. It is a travesty to force a penalty to opt out. These are economically hard

times, our utility rates are exorbitant, and it appears that arrogant government agencies don't care about us. No one should pay any

more for utilities than they are already paying. Other people that follow me I'm sure will have other things to say. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: That is all.

Thank you very much.

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Terri Kan followed by Scott Fusco. STATEMENT OF MS. KIEHL MS. KIEHL: Virginia Kiehl. Good evening. My name is

V-i-r-g-i-n-i-a, K-i-e-h-l.

The last name is K-i-e-h-l. I'm here speaking out against smart meters and the proposed increase in the opt-out fees. My main concern with smart

meters is the health issues related to the radioactive sensitivity and radiofrequency. How many fees and what amount of fees will be charged by SCE gas company -UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: sorry, I have to interrupt. Excuse me, I'm We can't

understand a word you are saying. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Off the record.

(Off the record) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: record. MS. KIEHL: Okay. I'm here to speak out against smart meters and the proposed increase and the opt-out fees. My main concern with smart Does this sound better now? Let's go back on the

meters is the health issues related to radioactive sensitivity. How many sets of

fees and what amount of fees will be charged by SCE, the gas company, and I understand my

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city water utility will be going to smart meters. I'm a senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't qualify for CARE. I already

pay Edison $195 a year.

All of the utility

companies should coordinate their activities so that no further fees are necessary. When smart meters first started it was advertised that the meters would pulse and transmit four times a day information to the utility company. That is what Edison

said, and now my water district is saying the same thing. In reality, these meters have RF

emissions and are pulsing to the blanket network in excess of 100,000 pulses per meter, per day. hazards. I'm not aware of a single person who monitors their utility metering usage to lower their bill as advertised. I want to be on record that the timing of this hearing is too close to the holidays, and to -- to be given an effective turnout, which there is more people here than what I expected. either. The location isn't the best The meters are a health

It is dangerous to be out after dark

in this neighborhood riding around on transit. I would like to see the hearing

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during daytime hours and better locations. More health research is needed on smart meters. They should not be installed

by the gas company and the water utilities, as well as SCE, without permission of properties. Opt-out fees must be coordinated

and made such, if necessary, that people can opt out to protect their health and still be able to eat. Thank you. Thank you very much.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Scott Fusco followed by Aram Kazazian. STATEMENT OF MR. FUSCO MR. FUSCO: spelled F-u-s-c-o. I opted out of smart meters in July. And looking at the document you have outside here it says that smart meter fee to opt out is $75. I was charged 95. I've got the bill My name is Scott Fusco,

here to show it too. They have the options to go and do solar on your house. I've called many times.

I can't do solar because my bill doesn't average over $150 a month. opted out. That was until I

So now that I've opted out my In June or May it

bill continues to climb.

was $123, June 155, July 158, August 200, September 199, and then we are looking at October 246, November 255, and the month of

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December $280. So I went back and I looked at all my bills. And I've got, this is printout We

from Microsoft Money going back to 2008. are looking at June bills 151, 160. called up the Edison Company. many refrigerators do you have? So I

They said how Maybe you

are using off-peak hours, on-peak hours? Well, I still work during the day and I'm home at night. The only difference between today and two years ago, three years ago in July, is now I turn the lights off. My garage

lighting used to be on all the time because we have cameras in there. I have a fountain I

in front of the house that is unplugged. turned it off. Bunch of stuff reducing Motion sensors, I

lights in the house.

kicked off those in back for security. Another thing that I checked into was if you were to take my bill by the kilowatt-hour, you divide that, say you've got this amount of dollars, this amount of kilowatts. Divide one by the other, my

kilowatt-hours would have been $3.99 would have been my rate in June. So $3.99 July,

sorry, 3.99 May-June 5.06, July 5.37, August $7.07, in September it is now $6.29. It went

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down a bit.

Up in October to 7.17.

November

it is $7.76 and December 7.95, okay? My bill and my rate continues to climb. There has got to be something in the I checked with my neighbor

commerce clause.

across the street, behind me, and next to me. Nobody else's bill is climbing, just mine. So I'm being discriminated against. There

has got to be something in the commerce clause that deals with treating customers unfairly or unjustly compared to my neighbors. My $10 fee would be fine, but It just keeps climbing. Thank you. Aram

this is ridiculous.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Kazazian followed by Dr. Marcy Axness. STATEMENT OF MR. KAZAZIAN MR. KAZAZIAN: Kazazian. examples. My name is Aram

I'm only here to give you some I have meters in the Edison area

and LADWP also Glendale Water and Power. Glendale Water and Power changed their meters to smart meters. They did that as a scam That is The same

just to steal money from the public. all it was. Just a scam, a theft.

thing is happening over here. that.

I can see

The cost to read the 80,000 electric meters that Glendale had was $600,050 a year.

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That is documented. documented report.

I'm giving you a Now to read the smart

meters electronically on the computer system, because they have to pay the employees, you know, $400 an hour versus, you know, $17 an hour people are walking around. million a year. public. So they went ahead and increased the water meter rates. They find a consultant They increased the It is $5.6

So they are soaking the

they can con into them.

water bill from 58 percent to 641 percent. You don't cover that, I know that. thing is happening, 641 percent. To read the water meters in an apartment building commercial they put a charge of $990 a month to read the meter only. That is not the water usage. They are theft. That is They The same

what they are doing. are crooked.

So original started to change all these meters was $28 million. The $28

million went up, went up 50 million, 71 million. They run out of money. Now they

said they need another 20 million, so they give another $20 million. Now they are going They couldn't So if

to increase our electric rate.

do it because election is coming up.

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they do it, we are not going to get elected. We are not going to get our money in our pockets again. So we are going to wait until

after to do this, to let people know this. Then they hired a consultant $71,000 to say how they can hit the people with more money. crooks. They are crooks. They are all

A lot of this money, by the way, They disappeared.

they can't even audit. Okay.

So smart meters cost less to

read -- the regular meters cost less to read than the smart meters. So people should

refund their money back, not they should be paying for it, they should refund their money because it costs less. saying. So that is what I'm

There is so much going on I can't

even tell you. The health effects on the people. We have people sleeping in their bedrooms, they have changed their bedroom location because they are afraid of these meters. These meters put out a lot of pulse. They

give you a chart, you know, it is only 40 in three feet. Some of these bedrooms where

people's children sleep are right next to the meters. Imagine you have a house, you have a So they

meter right there right behind them.

got to get the kid away 10 feet not to get

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brain damage on the child. That is what is happening, and people don't care. One congressman said if Go to a Thank

you can't afford it, move out. different city. you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

That is what he said.

Thank you.

Dr.

Marcy Axness followed by Jerry Day. STATEMENT OF MS. AXNESS MS. AXNESS: I'm Dr. Marcy Axness,

M-a-r-c-y, A-x-n-e-s-s. I'm an early development specialist. I teach graduate students about prenatal health. I help parents who want to support

their children's optimal development. My book Parenting For Peace came out this spring. It is really about how do we

raise a generation with a brain wired with the capacity of a peacemaker. I know this is a hearing about fees, not about health effect issues. lot about health effects. one thing. I've heard a

I just want to say

I do have a section in here where

I talk about the famed neuroscientist from UCLA, Ross Adey. He was one of the very

first to really bring up concerns about what EMFs do. They alter the permeability of the The cell, our basic

cell membrane.

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foundation of our well-being and our health. It would be as if I asked you to put on earmuffs and put marbles in your mouth and then asked you to do your job effectively. You couldn't bring in information correctly, and you couldn't respond appropriately. that is all professional. It got personal for me in January. My smart meter was put on the end of January, and at the end of February I came up with tinnitus, ringing in my ears. the connection then. A few months later I started having intense musculoskeletal pain while sitting at my computer where the smart meter happened to be mounted on the wall. the connection. I still didn't make I didn't make So

It took a while.

When I finally figured it out, I called up to opt out. fee plus $10 a month. health? Okay. I want to say three overarching comments about the opt-out fees. I'm shaking I was told $75 initial I said what price

in my boots after that guy just testified about his raise in rates. I'm sure a lot of

people will be siting Section 415 about fairness. First of all, philosophically that

I have to pay to opt out of a technology that

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has a massive amount of concern focused upon it, especially in other countries, and that has caused me actual physical symptoms seems to strike right at the heart of my pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. And my way of

thinking this has class action written all over it. (Applause) MS. AXNESS: It seems unjust that I,

whose bill is sometimes $39 would be paying this now proposed $29, almost 100 percent of my bill. That it wouldn't be based on a

percentage, if I'm going to be pragmatic. Lastly, if you do persist in charging opt-out fees of any size, it seems that those of us who live in tiny homes, which is impossible to relocate, to be in a place -- to put the meter where humans don't routinely hang out. We are penalized. I

don't have the option to have my meter moved anywhere where I don't spend a lot of time. There is literally no place on the outside of my house that isn't directly adjacent to a living space. Again, I just keep hearing the words class action ringing in my ears along with the ringing in my ears. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Jerry Day followed

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by Julie Levine. STATEMENT OF MR. DAY MR. DAY: I'm Jerry Day.

The power companies -- let me start here. How did the power companies and the

CPUC ever come to the notion that when a radiation emitting surveillance device is unlawfully installed on someone's home without their knowledge or consent that they may be charged a fee for its removal? Apparently the power companies and the CPUC have no fundamental grasp of reality. If someone is to be charged for removal, they must be informed of the intention to install and given the choice before installation takes place. To simply

install without disclosure and without consent causes the power company to be fully and solely liable for all costs of removal. (Applause) MR. DAY: Electronic surveillance is a

crime under Federal Title 18, Wiretapping, calls for five years imprisonment. Everyone

at the CPUC is subject to that prosecution for complicity. Also exposing people to --

on private property to cancer-causing radiation is a crime against health, safety, and property rights.

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This is criminal misconduct.

It is

absurd to contemplate a fee to be paying to the criminal -- by the -- excuse me, to be paid to the criminal by the victim for the benefit of ceasing the criminal activity. (Applause) MR. DAY: (Inaudible) has spun If the power

completely off of its pin here.

company has no consent for installation, it has no claim for costs of removal. Law 101. The easement is not consent. easement is for an analogue meter, not a radiation-emitting device. adequate disclosure. consent. There is no The This is

There is no informed

Therefore, there is no easement for

the violating conduct. The secrecy and misrepresentation surrounding the meters and the smart grid program is clear evidence of the dangers and repugnancies of the program to the homeowner and the occupants. The power companies now

know that digital meters are dangerous and repugnant, because they have worked very hard to not inform the people of the installations and to not inform the public about exactly what the meters would be doing. obvious campaign. This is an

Installers who should know

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better are sneaking into properties, rushing the installations, and even swapping the meters under a full load which must know has caused more than a thousand house fires in California alone. Meter manufacturers have even removed the product's specifications from their websites. There is premeditated

manipulation, deceit, and fraud behind this digital meter program. And it is astonishing

that you can even imagine that any cost of this fiasco would be conveyed to the innocent victims of it. (Applause) MR. DAY: mistake. mistake. The program is a horrible

Digital meters are a terrible You cannot put a switching load It

power supply at the head end of a wire. just doesn't work.

It wastes electricity.

It radiates homes, damages appliances, and warning of that is in every textbook on electrical engineering. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Judy Bruce. STATEMENT OF MS. LEVINE MS. LEVINE: My name is Julie Levine. Julie Levine

And like many others, I've experienced lethal health effects caused by the installation of

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smart meters and the accompanying smart meter grid. I opted out of the program, as did many of my neighbors, and thought that would be the end of it. But the smart meter grid,

high voltage power lines, transformers, signal boosters, and collector/medusa meters has made me so sick that I have been forced to put my home on the market. I have ever owned. An increased electrosensitivity from these meters has made sleeping or functioning anywhere near the grid impossible for me. feel a constant electrical pulse shaking me awake all night long, and it increases in severity as the grid wakes up from around 3:00 a.m. on. I have diarrhea and vomiting I The only home

every morning from this pulsing, ringing and pain in my ears, heart racing, and palpitations, disorientation, confusion, and nervousness. My doctor has told me that my sensitivity to these new electromagnetic frequencies is exacerbated by neurological vulnerability from two previous traumatic brain injuries and spinal surgeries. He

advised me move away as soon as possible from the electric grid to avoid more dire health

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problems like cancer. I called SCE and was told by Jacqueline at the smart meter center that I could be feeling pulsing underneath my house from the communication between neighbors' smart meters; but it was not SCE's responsibility because the meters are on my neighbors' property, and I am not on the program. Jerry, SCE's smart meter guru said I

there are 500 households on my grid.

helped some of them opt out and pay their fees. I cannot do so for 500, thus I cannot

be removed from the grid. I filed a complaint with the CPUC and it was embarrassing. I got a boilerplate

response that did not address the pulsing or the grid. I fought to out opt to no avail, since my neighbors' meters and the grid beam directly into my home. I'm extorted extra

money for trying to protect myself and still pay more for my own radiation. There is no

opt out from the smart meter grid and no proof of the safety of these meters and grids. The American Academy of Environmental Medicine called on the CPUC to immediately halt the program and investigate

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these issues as it has been deemed carcinogenic. It is being ignored.

The opt-out process is a joke and a farce. Meanwhile, the utility companies

benefit, and we get increased surveillance and loss of privacy. home. I have had to sell my

I spent over $20,000 this July to

remediate my home to rule out alternative causing of pulsing and other impacts of radiation. tent. I'm living in a minivan and a

And I got off the grid to lower Big

Sir where I can actually sleep through the night. And now I am in a tent. I am a

homeowner, okay? Renters and low-income homeowners also have health impacts, but they can't afford to opt out. I have paid those fees,

and yet my beloved home has become completely unlivable for me, and my health is seriously compromised. This is a nightmare that must

be stopped immediately and a public health emergency. Please do not ignore us, please. Judy Bruce followed

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by Shane Gregory.

STATEMENT OF MS. BRUCE MS. BRUCE: My name is Judy Bruce.

First talk about the interims and monthly fees, opt-out fees. I say no to extortion.

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They are unjust and punitive.

Why should we

have to pay for not getting sick? These are arbitrary and unreasonable and they violate California Public Utilities Code 451. Code 328.2 (b), no customer should

have to pay separate fees for utilizing services that protect the public. These fees also may violate federal discrimination laws as disabled and poor and medically ill will not be able to afford the fees. The federal government never made That is from the Time-of-use

smart meters mandatory.

Energy Policy Act of 2005.

metering is not mandatory, CPUC code Section 745 (d)(1). California Public Utilities Code 8360 program smart grid states, quote, it is the policy of the state to provide safe and secure electrical service, end quote. Wireless smart grid is not safe. Therefore,

fees to provide safety are unjust and in violation of state law. Now, regarding the smart meters, this is a United Nations-led conspiracy to hook the world up to control them and to ration power. monopolies. Electricity companies are They will keep rates criminally

high, and they count on the public's

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ignorance. My neighbors -- I have opted out. The other 86 homes have complained that their energy bills have skyrocketed since the smart meters were deployed. And then what about these unsuspecting earth haters who wash their clothes during the day. They are not going

to know what they really are doing wrong until they reach their first smart meter bill. What happened to the changes promised in the California Energy Act of 2005 which states smart meters are going to be available upon request, not some monetary sneak attack. Why would anybody want

something equivalent to a, quote, cell tower in the middle of their home emitting a vivid profile of the personal living and to the world? Where is our right to privacy? How

can the government and health authorities allow smart meters to be installed if they are a known public health threat? Answer,

unfortunately, their interests are way above the public's health. Bottom line, smart meters are a dangerous to health and an invasion of our privacy.

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ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Liz Barris.

Shane Gregory

STATEMENT OF MS. GREGORY MS. GREGORY: Shane Gregory. It has been 14 months since I first appeared to tell the CPUC about the health effects that I began to suffer when smart meters were deployed in my former home. direct result of the installation of the meters, I have lost my home of 24 years. The As a Good evening. My name is

past year and a half has been a living hell for me. I have been homeless until last

month when I finally managed to find an apartment in an area that is not yet filled with smart meters. My civil rights and human rights have been violated by utility companies who have blanketed the country with smart meters forcing ratepayers to accept them or to pay extortion fees to try to protect their health and safety. I have slept on park benches. have slept in my car. I

I have couch surfaced.

I have spent days in parks because I had nowhere to go. I am disabled. I have had

four brain surgeries. income.

I live on a fixed

I have Section 8 housing subsidy.

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It is next to impossible to find suitable housing for that program. I am very

fortunate that I have now found a place for a moment. But my life has never been the same

since I got a smart meter July 28th, 2011. I never heard of a smart meter. I

never heard of electrosensitivity, but it is real and it is true. The headaches, the

heart palpitations, the anxiety, and indeed the feelings, suicidal feelings. I mean I

thought I was possessed by something that was unfamiliar to me. I picked up my keys after

five days, because I knew I was in dire danger. Now we are being asked to make choices. poison. We are being asked to choose our I will not participate in that

debate, because to do so would be to condone this program. My only answer to the questions posed to us is resounding. at all for anyone. meters back. and for all. No opt-out fees

Give us our analogue

Take down the smart meters once Restore our rights and our

health and our freedom to choose where and how we live. Do not make us ill, do not

charge us for our constitutional rights. Thank you.

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ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by William Grey.

Liz Barris followed

STATEMENT OF MS. BARRIS MS. BARRIS: Before you start timing

me, I just have to state that I am separate from my -- I'm someone involved in the hearing. I'm speaking as an individual

tonight, not representing The People's Initiative. Okay?

I have been too busy trying to organize people to get down here. yesterday. written out. I was ill

I didn't have my statement I've been going crazy. Quite

frankly, the PUC has heard it all before. This is old news to you by now. Judge Yip-Kikugawa, I respect you personally. I feel you -- I feel out of all

the PUC people -- by the way, they left you here alone? PUC? Where is all the rest of the

We are -(Applause) MR. BARRIS: So I just want to say that

I have no respect for the Public Utilities Commission anymore. personally about you. I'm not talking I feel you out of But it has

everybody is the most receptive.

been my experience -- I stood before Michael Peevey, and I told him that I had a digital

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meter on my apartment.

I didn't know there

was a meter on there, but I moved into an apartment, ironically, to get away from the cell tower. I moved into an apartment

because the cell tower was causing me problems. This stated with digital meters. I started getting

How did I find that out?

stabbing pains in my ear and heart arrythmia and headaches so that I couldn't function in my apartment. Finally I asked the landlord,

and I looked, and there were digital meters. Well, currently -- you are not even allowed if you have a digital meter -- I ended up, by the way, before getting into that, I ended up sleeping in my car for seven months because I had this meter running. was breaking the law in Los Angeles. I

Seven

months, every day, every night I slept in my car because that apartment was uninhabitable to me. I stood before Michael Peevey. told my story. I

I said Edison is trying to I told

charge me $4,000 extra a year.

Michael Peevey right to his face, and I begged for my life. absolutely nothing. Michael Peevey did So I personally know the And we

Commission is worthless, worthless.

are going to need to sue, everybody, the

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city, county.

You are going to see thousands

of complaints, thousands about health effects. Nothing has been done to protect anybody. And the Public Utilities

Commission's website states responsibility is to protect, is to provide safe service. of this has been lived up to. You can laugh. It is a joke. So before None

It is a joke.

So not only -- all right. I get wrapped up here, businesses are currently not allowed to opt out. crazy.

That is

A business, like I'm a resident --

I'm in business, so I'm going to have to get cancer from that meter because I don't have a choice. Is this like Nazi Germany? If you have a digital meter prior and you just found out about the health effects, you just found out why you got this insomnia, headaches, stabbing pains, your heart arrythmia. Well, guess what? We can't

go back to analogue meters because Edison says so. The silver lining in this very dark cloud is that people are very angry. By the

way, it is the people who are neurologically compromised that are getting hit first. are up here tonight, okay? Older people, We

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people that are vulnerable. Silver lining is that we are wanting to one break this monopoly up. is a monopoly. Because this

That is the only way. I said

We have gas at my apartment.

to the gas company I don't want that smart meter. They said no problem, ma'am. One day

they replaced it with an analogue meter or a safe meter. That is because of competition.

There is a monopoly all across the state that needs to be broken up. It is quite apparent

that they are disgustingly abusing their position. Respectfully, Judge Yip-Kikugawa, the PUC is a disgusting bunch of criminals, okay? Disgusting. They need to go down just

like Edison does. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: William Grey

followed by Catherine Hertel. STATEMENT OF MR. GREY MR. GREY: I would like to apologize

for not being aware of how commissioners are -- how do they get their jobs? I don't

know whether they are voted in by the public or whether they are appointed by someone, but I think there may be a problem there. Ever since I saw about seven or eight CEOs of the tobacco companies swear

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under oath in front of Congress that they didn't feel that tobacco was an addictive drug, and then to follow up there was no perjury charges on any of these CEOs. little suspicious of authority. I'm a

And I can't

for a minute trust people who may, after they've served their portion on the Commission, take some nice cushy job with the utilities. I don't know if there is laws But forgive me for

against that or not. being suspicious.

Now, regarding the fee for opting out. $75, I can afford $75, but it is There is no two ways about it. There

extortion.

It is just out and out extortion.

is -- if you don't use something you've got to pay us money. Where did that come from?

On what moral scale does that find itself? It is -- if you are responsible, and I'm not so sure it isn't criminal to try to pull something off like that on the public. And I don't have any real health issues about it, but I don't know. I don't

know that there are assurances that are healthy or not dangerous. Is it credible? I

have no idea whether it is credible or not, but my suspicion is that it is probably not, because it is being done on kind of a

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surreptitious level. I didn't realize this was an issue until recently. Apparently there is 4-1/2

million of these things in operation already. Now that is pretty stealthy, if you ask me, and I think that by itself should give one pause. And I think these commissioners before they take a vote ought to be very leery of being found complicit in a criminal activity. Thank you. Catherine Hertel

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Tina Boivin.

STATEMENT OF MS. HERTEL MS. HERTEL: Can you hear me okay?

Name is Catherine Hertel, with a C, and last name is H-e-r-t-e-l. Baldy, California. And I'm here from Mt. And I'm going to read a

letter from my landlady who is physically unable to be here, but she represents four generations of one of the first families in our community who were there when Southern California Edison first brought electricity to our community. wanted to say. Dear Commission, I live in Mt. Baldy, California, and have been very satisfied and appreciative Southern And here is what she

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California customer for over 50 years. Mt. Baldy is a remote community in the San Gabriel Mountains. Southern

California Edison has always gone above and beyond to provide excellent service and service restoration when it was impacted by flood or wildfire. Recently Southern California Edison installed digital smart meters to be read remotely by radiofrequency. Unfortunately,

while I appreciate the communities and cost savings offered by today's modern technology, it should be applied with a dose of commonsense. Baldy. There is no cellphone in Mt. Why was the

There never has been.

decision made to install digital smart meters in a location where they cannot be read due to the lack of cell phone reception or radiofrequency? Why now must I bear the

cost, $98 up front and $24 a month, to reinstall an analogue meter that I previously already had? My desire to opt out of the digital smart meter is driven by the fact that I insist on being billed for actual electric usage consistent with state code. Currently,

Southern California Edison is estimating usage. I have a rental cabin that has been

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vacant for four months. has not changed.

The electric bill

Is Southern California

Edison in violation of state code by estimating usage for all currently installed digital meters Mt. Baldy? Coverage map of cell phone and radiofrequency availability are readily provided by all telecommunications companies. SCE customers and areas where cell phone or radiofrequency reception is not available to support the digital smart meters should not be made to bear the cost of the poor business decision by SCE management. Replacement of

perfectly fine analogue meters and the cost of the meter readers in these areas should be borne by SCE, and not responsible for ensuring that technology works everywhere. Why should I bear the cost of the fact that it does not? Thank you for considering my comments. Sincerely Patricia Chapman,

Chapman Ranch, Mt. Baldy. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by Gary Sosenko. STATEMENT OF MS. BOIVIN MS. BOIVIN: Yes, my name is Tina, and Tina Boivin followed

the last name is B-o-i-v-i-n, Boivin. Yes, when I started hearing about

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the smart meters I decided to write a note and put it outside the meter, and which I took a picture on July 14th, 2011, which said do not remove our analogue meter with a date. And wrote "photo take" so that they would know the photo was taken. And I checked the meter about once a week to make sure it was still there. noticed I think it was around end of September, beginning of October, can't quite remember the day, I walked out and the letter, which I had taped on tons of tape, was ripped off and a smart meter had been placed on my garage. I haven't noticed any problems with me physically yet. My complaint is that I Then I

don't feel that Edison had the right to come onto my property, rip my sign down, and totally ignore my rights as a property owner to place their meter instead. Now I'm going

to be charged to put the analogue meter back on the building. problem. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Robert Jason. STATEMENT OF MR. SOSENKO MR. SOSENKO: Hi. My name is Gary Gary Sosenko That is insane. That is my

Sosenko, S-o-s-e-n-k-o.

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I feel abused by my utility Smart meter may be smart for

Southern California Edison, it may be the newest technology, it may save them for having thousands of meter readers and make them a lot of profit. convert? Why do I have to

Why do I have to pay a fee for not

doing anything to keep my analogue meter? Why do I need to be a part of a system that has not improved, that may impair my safety, my health? If this system is so good, wouldn't everybody want to be part of it? Wouldn't

people want to save money to have the latest technology? Wouldn't they be calling Edison

to have this meter put in instead of wanting to opt out? There is really not a need to

have everybody on the grid right away. Why does Edison extort its A smart company would respect Thank you.

their customers, not abuse them. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Robert Jason, then

we are going to take a short five-minute break, and then we will resume with the rest of the speakers. STATEMENT OF MR. JASON MR. JASON: Thank you. My name is

Robert Jason, J-a-s-o-n.

I'm an attorney for

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the County of Los Angeles, kind of semiretired, for 44 years. Although I've

only done criminal law, it seems to me there are some civil, legal situations that I think the PUC should be aware of and that strike me as very relevant. There is two issues that are being talked about, mostly health which I think is of most importance. I have not personally

had sensitivity, but my heart goes out to those that do. But it seems to me that if

there are 10 people in this room whose lives have been destroyed, there are thousands of people just in Southern California that are similarly affected. There are a vast majority of the people that have smart meters who don't even know they have one, and who are having health effects and have no way of knowing why they are feeling how they are feeling. (Applause) MR. JASON: There is a basic concept in

the law in terms of civil liability that you are liable for the foreseeable consequences of your actions. And what you are hearing

today and what you will hear over a period of time are the consequences of the PUC allowing smart meters to be installed and making them

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mandatory, or at least allowing them to be proliferated in the community. There are foreseeable health consequences. There are also foreseeable Those are being felt

security consequences. already.

They will continue to be felt in a We don't even You

greater degree over years.

know the long-term health consequences.

didn't do a 30-year study to determine the health consequences of smart meters. The

cell phone companies didn't do a 30-year study to see how many people are going to get brain cancer. after 20 years. They are just starting now But these are foreseeable

consequences that you were liable for, and the courts will hold you liable. On the security issue, by your information it says we have developed comprehensive security processes and procedures adapted many -- adapted from the banking and defense industry. Two industries

who have been hacked with security systems a million times more sensitive and sophisticated than you could ever dream of. Bank of America, the Pentagon has been hacked. It is absurd to think that

individuals will not have our personal information of how we use our electricity

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which tells people when we are home and when we are not home. I have dealt with criminal defendants for 44 years. They would love --

all they want to know for burglaries is whether people are home. They don't want to That is

go into a home where people are at. all they want to know.

These are issues that will come back to haunt this community and the PUC. And I

think you should reflect on this even though I know this hearing today is only dealing with this little fee, which is annoying, but there are much deeper issues that go to the root of this. consider them. And I think you should Thank you. Thank you. We are

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

going to take a five-minute break, then we will resume. We are off the record.

(Recess taken) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: record. Ms. Hardison, please. STATEMENT OF MS. HARDISON MS. HARDISON: Yes. I was planning to Let's go back on the

read someone else's letter, which I don't have. But plenty of people here have been

expressing their lives, their thoughts.

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And I just feel if the Commission is not listening, doesn't listen, take to heart what people are saying. a democracy. Thank you. Thank you. We no longer live in

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Denise Barton followed by Louis Cangemi. STATEMENT OF MS. BARTON MS. BARTON: Hello. My name is Denise Please

Barton, B-a-r-t-o-n.

Good evening.

allow me to explain generally how smart meters work in correlation to opt-out fees. Smart meters transmit information to utility companies like the Edison mandate, and has a computer running 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Has anyone else noticed how

electrical bills have gone up since the smart meters were installed? Now you have a

computer running up energy consumption. In other words, the smart meters cancel out those energy conservation measures you have done. Put that together with the

opt-out fee and the monthly opt-out charge, and looks like a scam on the consumer. Because if they remove the smart meter, they will have to make money up somehow, in this case through additional fees. I'd also like to mention when I spoke to the PUC, a Mr. Williams, his

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attitude was very telling too.

During the

conversation he said I was wasting his time, reading propaganda. And when I told him I

was getting sick from them, he said he didn't want to hear it. Now I would like to address the testing by California Council considering they have people getting sick in the general population. I personally found double talk

about the issue in their report regarding radiofrequency from smart meters. In

addition, the seniors, the disabled, children, pregnant women not being included in the testing who are actually the most susceptible to radiofrequency radiation. Put this together with the testing in coordination with the utility companies may be major contributor. It looks like

profit for the utility companies at the expense and disregard of the general population. In ending the mandate in the general population makes people sick, fees should not be allowed. Seems like nothing more than

extortion, especially when the meters, when clustered together, are making a difference in the amount of radiation being exposed. And many low-income people can't afford to

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opt out. Please don't make electric magnetically sensitive people have to live like that. They will be forced to live in a

cave due to the negative health effects they are having. So any and all help in eliminating the opt-out fees will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you very much.

Louis Cangemi followed by Sunja Ackerman. STATEMENT OF MR. CANGEMI MR. CANGEMI: Yes. My name is Louis

Cangemi, and I'm here on behalf of someone who is so susceptible to EMFs she could not attend this evening. This is her letter. I'm a

My name is Laura Palacio.

former high school science teacher who is having health issues with smart meters. I

would be here in person, but I am myself so sensitive that it is difficult for me to be in buildings with large amounts of wireless. There is a significant amount of research that has been done on the effects of wireless signals on the human body. This

information is poorly communicated in most scientific communities. RF, or

radiofrequency radiation, consists of

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wireless signals and includes that emitted from cell phones, smart meters, and microwave ovens. These wireless signals have been

shown to make the blood brain barrier leaky to affect the activity of cells in the brain, to affect sugar levels in the blood leading to a condition known as brittle diabetes that contribute to ADD and ADHD and to affect heart rate. Some of these effects occur only

in sensitive individuals. The smart meters installed in the neighborhood where I live have caused me massive headaches and insomnia. The signals

from smart meters on neighboring houses affect me greatly, and I have no control over what type of meter my neighbors have. The radiation from smart meters is so much stronger and its affects on me than that from WiFi from neighbors' homes or even that from cell towers that I drive by. dismayed that they have been installed without safety testing. The radiation from I'm

wireless electrical meters is a health hazard not just for people like me, but for all, and not necessarily in terms of cancer. I remember my friend told me he quit smoking when the doctor told him that if he continued smoking he might possibly get lung

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cancer, but that he would definitely get emphysema. Wireless exposure is the same.

We may or may not get cancer from it. Research is there to show increased risk of cancer from wireless. For instance, the

World Health Organization has found smart meters to be a carcinogen. We most

definitely will have some detrimental health effects as a result of exposure. I hereby request two things. First,

that we not be required to pay fees in order to opt out of the wireless meter program. Second, that the entire program be scuttled in favor of the analogue meters for health reasons. Sincerely, Laura Palacio. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Sunja Ackerman Sunja Ackerman.

followed by Mark McSpadden.

STATEMENT OF MS. ACKERMAN MS. ACKERMAN: Thank you. First of

all, I admire you judge and the PUC for even holding this meeting. incredible. This is absolutely

Because there is a lot out on

the Internet, there are a lot of people doing a lot of things that are going and are not okay. And you are listening to us, and that

is awesome. I have to admire also the staff of

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Con Edison.

These guys are incredible. No.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. ACKERMAN: are being paid by.

You have to see who they If you look at these

guys, they are one of the best staff members you could have anywhere. for them? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. ACKERMAN: Yes. Blood money. And I have admired But who is paying

Con Edison for what they did before. I want to know what is wrong with the old meters. Did they suddenly go

inefficient or is something else going on here? I'm going to point out something at

the end of my speech that is quite remarkable. It is brilliant, brilliant PR. a PR person. I know PR. And this is I'm

brilliant: more choices, more reliable service, future benefits. that sound wonderful? My God, doesn't

And they say here at

the bottom of the page, oh, if you want to formally opt out and pay the applicable fees or allow the installation of an advanced meter at no incremental cost. of you, Con Edison. There is something here. 75 years old. Now, I am Well, how kind

I am in perfect health, and I

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intend to stay that way.

Many people cannot

afford to not take these smart quote, unquote, meters. the fees. health. They can't afford to pay

They cannot afford to keep their I can. On the top also of this Edison thing

it says, I don't know if anybody notices, here is how they probably have hung themselves. You are going to call it It is, I suppose. It

conspiracy theory?

says Southern California Edison, we all know that. Underneath it says, an Edison Does that say global

International Company. or what?

Thank you for being here. Marc McSpadden

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Stephen followed by Steven Sacks. STATEMENT OF MR. McSPADDEN MR. McSPADDEN: Your smart meter policy Your

is un-American and arguably criminal.

smart meters being the instrument of these crimes. You are extorting from every

California citizen that chooses to opt out, according to the program. The 4th Amendment of the Constitution states that you, no individual, no government agency has a right to enter any person's home without permission of the homeowner unless there is a warrant issued by

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a judge, to enter that home based on the judge's receiving evidence of probable cause of a crime being committed. How are you violating the 4th Amendment? With your smart meters you are

electronically entering the home of what likely will be millions of Californians and electrically snooping around the homes to see what electrical appliances are being used. Many of the Californian citizens do not want to give you permission to do so. But you've

gone to them and said all right, we won't force our way into your home against your will; but to prevent us from doing so, for violating your 4th Amendment protected right, you must pay us money and do so every month. That act by definition is extortion. (Applause) MR. McSPADDEN: By what right do you

shake down hundreds of thousands maybe millions of Californians who will eventually opt out of the smart meters? Now, the smart meter proponents say they have a right, you have a right to enter the home because of fictitious environmental concern. They believe your electricity needs

to be restricted because of an eminent environmental threat. As I just said, the

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Constitution doesn't give you the right, even after that alleged threat. The smart meters are one of many dozens of 1992 UN Earth Summit, U.N. Agenda 21 programs that are being currently imposed upon the world enacted to keep all levels of government in America. Smart meters and a

whole list of other U.N. Agenda 21 programs exists to the implementation of Agenda 21 in U.S. The stated reasons for the Earth Summit and term "smart meters" is a compact manmade global warming. However, according

to science there is absolutely no manmade global warming problem. Over 38,000 of the

top climatologists, astrophysics, meteorologists in the world have signed a petition have said essentially that. So in summary, you are entering our homes, snooping around, violating our property rights protected by the 4th Amendment, a crime. And will only cease

doing so if we, the homeowners, pay you extortion money. Your argument for your need

to snoop around our homes with your meters is based on a fraudulent crisis, an alleged manmade global warming problem. Fraud,

illegal searching of our homes and extortion

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are all crimes. I urge the State Commission to cease committing ASAP at least two or three of these crimes by abolishing all opt-out fees and fines. Stop extorting us. Stephen Sacks

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Bobbi Brunoehler. STATEMENT OF MR. SACKS MR. SACKS: S-a-c-k-s. Every point in my letter has been made already, except perhaps I think, you know, we've been working in Mt. Baldy in opposition to cell towers going in because there are electromagnetic sensitive people in our town. And they are injured by cell phone Their smart My name is Stephen Sacks,

technology, cell phones cells.

meters are even more potent than the cell phones. The problem that we've run into in Mt. Baldy is that people don't believe us that -- they don't believe that the health impacts are true, but there is a lot of new science that backs this up. If anybody is

wondering about whether it actually is dangerous to your health, they need to read the Bio Initiative Report which is peer-reviewed and published by The Journal of

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Physiology in their August 2009 edition. I've attached to my letter a 28-page summary of that report. Other than that, I give my time to other people that have other issues. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Bobbi Brunoehler,

I'm sorry if I mispronounced your last name, followed by John Schaefer. STATEMENT OF MS. BRUNOEHLER MS. BRUNOEHLER: My name is Bobbi Everybody

Brunoehler, B-r-u-n-o-e-h-l-e-r. mispronounces it.

I am here to at least try to represent some of the minimum of 3 percent of the people on this planet that are now electrically sensitive. There is at least 3

percent of the population, possibly 6 percent. I went through a period of my life where I lived in several homes, one at a time where I was exposed to fields that I couldn't be with. I actually had to leave. I had to

leave my children who -- like I had to leave my children. I had to leave my family. I

had to leave everything.

I went through a

horribly couple of years trying to get us into a place where we could be where I could be okay, and to make myself physically strong

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enough to withstand the toxins in the air. Now I'm being told that this meter is going to be put on my house. The fact of

the matter is I know what happens if meters like that are on my house. my life. It ruins my life. There is a woman here living in a tent, I know, I understand. I will do anything. I've been there. I know it ruins

I would pay anything, It

and that is the definition of extortion. is extortion. it is.

I'm sorry, but that is the way

There are people who they know they

are going to pay that money instead of feeding their children. We are all bent out of shape about a horrible thing that happened this week to children. We are not thinking about all of

the children that are going to be affected by these meters. instance -(Applause) MS. BRUNOEHLER: What is happening is It just doesn't happen in an

their bodies are being grown, and women who are sleeping next to smart meters. shouldn't we care? I got my bill, my bill from Southern California Gas Company. And had this And

beautiful picture, this beautiful picture.

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Give the gift of warmth. can make a difference.

Donate now.

You

Well, if they want to

make a difference then they need to get rid of the smart meters. They need to make it

easy for people to opt out, and they need to think about the health of the people of the United States of America. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Tadj Correia. STATEMENT OF MR. SCHAEFER MR. SCHAEFER: me is $350 a year. cost me $545. Right now the cost for First year is going to The This Thank you. John Schaefer

These are estimates.

second year is going to cost me $470. is on top of other expenses.

Governor Brown proposed three times on order to appeal license fees. fees would be three times greater. License We tried It is

to try to talk him down to two times. still a lot.

Opposition 30 was retroactive.

That

means for this whole year we have to pay that tax on our next tax form, plus Proposition 32 taxes. And I have Obama CARE taxes up to Mutual funds, I don't have

$2,000 a year.

very much, but I get taxed 20 percent on the money I take out. I mean I just can't afford

to have that on a fixed income.

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Now, a friend of mine lives in Every day he passes his meter, so he One day he went by it,

is familiar with it.

saw something different, the digital meter. He thought nothing of it until he started getting his electric bills, and he saw the difference. Now, I was with him about two weeks And we -- I have a friend of mine who

was an engineer, electronic engineer, another one a contractor. hacking. And they discussed the As you The

Hacking is very easy to do.

remember, many of the grids were hacked.

fellow mentioned the Pentagon and all that. So people can do a lot of mischief with these meters. I don't like the idea of having more security threatened by invading my personal privacy. I don't like the idea that they can

turn off my refrigerator, or they can turn off my microwave with that. that idea at all. And that is about it. better than that. a ballot? I can't do I don't like

Why can't they put this on

Why not let the public know what

is going on. (Applause) MR. SCHAEFER: All these guys didn't

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show up because they are ashamed to show their face. That is why they didn't show up. Tadj Correia

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Renate Collison. STATEMENT OF MR. CORREIA MR. CORREIA: My name Tadj Correia.

I'll start by putting this on the ballot. How many of you here in this room

have problems with the old meters, the analogue meters? Who has problems? Raise

your hand if you have a problem with analogue meters. So no one has raised their hand in

this entire room in terms of having problem with analogue meters. We've heard tonight accounts of people having adverse reactions to smart meters. There are people in the scientific

community who say that smart meters have adverse health effects and there is also privacy issues. So I want to know why there

are even smart meters in the first place. Second, I want to know if you opt out of having a smart meter why should you have to pay to not have one? To me it is insulting to my college education. I could have had an elementary

education and known the answer to that question. It is absolutely ridiculous. That

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is all I have to say. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Collison followed by -STATEMENT OF MS. COLLISON MS. COLLISON: My name is Renate Thank you. Renate

Collison, R-e-n-a-t-e, C-o-l-l-i-s-o-n. I do not want the adverse concern about the cost even for $8. I would like to

talk about the health aspect of smart meters, and the opt-out possibility. High frequency radiation through smart meters is a constant bombardment of your residency. High frequency radiation is

especially harmful to unborn children, fetuses, people with compromised immune systems, and older people. A friend of mine in Seattle had for 10 years Parkinson's disease. He had his ups

and downs, but he lived still quite comfortably. As his widow found out after he

died six months after the smart meter was installed, the man died, and she had no idea she had a smart meter. It was done without

her knowledge, without her permission. For those of us, including your Honor, who would like to know more information about the affect of smart meters, you should go to You Tube and

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greenheartacademy com.

You will see a video

by Dr. Greenheart (phonetic) who is in Seattle about the threat of smart meters and what you can do to protect yourself. Glean heart is an MD. Dr.

He has done extensive

research on smart meters both in Europe and in the United States. We could have avoided all this, because we could have used fiberoptic which is the technology that does not affect health. I will, on behalf of my three young

grandchildren, certainly join a lawsuit, but I hope it is not necessary. much. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Morton Morton Thank you very

Levy followed by Andrea Makshanoff. Levy. STATEMENT OF MR. LEVY MR. LEVY: L-e-v-y.

My name is Morton Levy,

I agree with a great deal of what I've heard here tonight, and I'm equally alarmed as all of you. I want to just give

you something else to worry about. Thirty years ago I became chemically sensitive in a very short period of time for no medically observable known reasons. And I

experienced some of the problems that some of

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our other speakers have experienced.

I

didn't lose my home; but I had to -- well, I guess I did in a way. I had to move to

places that didn't have new carpet, that didn't have new paint, that didn't have new furniture, that didn't have plastics and vinyls. And I had to dodge everywhere I went

in the world to try to avoid those things. I'm somewhat better. I don't react

as readily as I used to, but I've never recovered. Thirty years of trying everything

in the world, and I've never recovered. So part of what I thought I would say, because everybody has covered so many points, was I was 30 years old when that happened. So I made it 30 years with

pesticides and diesel fumes and new carpet with plume underneath, and all the different materials we put into all our new items and electronics and stuff. Some of us are getting smart meters, and we don't notice anything. Some of the

people are reacting right away, and that is terrible. But my point is some of this will I mean people are pointing

be really slow.

out about the kids, and I agree with the worry about the kids and everything. But

some of you, maybe 30 years old and maybe 10

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years later, boom, your health crashes and you won't know why. I meet all the time people I suspect are chemically sensitive. And I think I was

they've never made the connection.

lucky enough to at least figure out what was going on. But this is really hitting, and a

lot of people aren't going to figure it out. Yeah to all of you guys fighting this. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Andrea

Makshanoff followed by Candace Carnicelli. STATEMENT OF MS. MAKSHANOFF MS. MAKSHANOFF: members of this board? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MS. MAKSHANOFF: members of this board? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: There are five, I'm sorry? Are there seven Hello. Is there seven

there are five commissioners. MS. MAKSHANOFF: one? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: commissioner. judge. MS. MAKSHANOFF: commissioner here? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MS. MAKSHANOFF: No, there isn't. There is not one Is there any I'm not a And you are the only

I'm an administrative law

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commissioner here. reported.

I think this needs to be This

This needs to be reported. This is a travesty.

is a travesty.

(Applause) MR. MAKSHANOFF: Ms. Kikugawa. You've been very kind, I

Thank you very much.

thought I was speaking to a commissioner. And I wanted to warn them too that there is lack of choice here. going to affect everybody. And it is

It is going to

affect everybody, even the -- our Southern California Edison employees in the back of the room. It will affect them and their

families too. I don't have -- have not had any neurologic damage. heart condition. I'm not -- don't have a I've not had an injury, but

every night I wake up around 3:00, 3:30. There is pulsing in my house. bad dream? Did I have a

Did I -- my heart is pounding. It is not my heart. What is

Is it my heart? it?

What is going on? Then starts the roundabout

throughout the house.

I wonder how many

people here have experienced that, where you go and check is my refrigerator on the blink, is the vibrating shaking the walls? Then I go and pull out the plug from

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the router, then I go down and pull the plugs from the box. Then I go and I check, maybe

it is coming from -- 3:30 in the morning, maybe it is in the sky. I live in a

mountainous area, and sound vibration travels in a very specific way, and I feel it. feel there is a truck on the street. it. I I feel

Here I am at 3:30 in the morning running

around the neighborhood wondering what the heck is going on. that. I did not -- I do not have a smart meter. out. I'm not on the grid. So I've opted I shouldn't have to do

I'm paying the fees, and I'm still

locked into this, and I'm affected by it. There has been issues, security issues. We do not want to be like Dan from

Whittier where he is like an Cosmeton (phonetic). Orwell. He is like right out of George

A customer's success story on what

the PR Department of Southern California Edison has created here. He wants to check See

in with his, you know, utility company.

if he is doing the right thing at all moments so he can improve. We do not want this. None of us do.

It is a time, it is a new time for everything in the United States of America. Occupy has

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shown us that.

We do not want this.

We are

not going -- it will affect everybody including our Southern California Edison people. care. Whoever they are paid by, I don't I don't want your children to be hurt

or to be waken up in the middle of the night running around what the heck is going on. Time is up. Thank you very much. Candace Carnicelli

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Andrea Walker. MS. CARNICELLI: is next. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: All right. After I'm passing, so Andrea

Ms. Walker will be Patti Nicklaus. STATEMENT OF MS. WALKER MS. WALKER: Yes. I'm Andrea Walker,

and I'm here to share my story. Well, back in early July, late June I started to notice a surge, an electrical sound. I tried to trace it. I couldn't I

figure out where it was coming from.

thought maybe I should call Edison to see if they could help me, because I was concerned about this new sound mostly in the morning when things are quiet, and in the evening again when the rest of the world quiets down. I was talking to my friend. She was

sharing with me her experience with the smart

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meter grid.

Then I realized the sound I was

hearing was the smart meter grid which really surprised me since I had paid my money to opt out. I figured that I was protected from And I've since read I realized that the

these radiofrequencies. and learned about them.

sound I am hearing is the actual -- I can tell you with my hand. It is on, it is off.

So I know this pulse that I just read in the paper from Edison that is supposed to be lasting a fraction of a second actually lasts a second or two, and it is sporadic. not like a clear on/off pattern. This is basically dirty energy. Dirty, it is not clean. comfortable. It is not It is

It does keep me awake at night. And it is -- like I I rely

It is very irritating. can't relax.

I live in a quiet area.

on that sense of relaxation that I've experienced from the quiet, but now I can't experience that because there is constant surge, or pulse. So here I am paying my opt-out fees, and yet I don't get a choice after all because it is this grid that is still going right through, into my house, outside as well. to say. I can hear it, and that is all I have

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ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Patti Nicklaus Next speaker

followed by Gloria Valladolid. is Patti Nicolas.

How about Gloria

Valladolid, and then after Gloria it will be Dhun May. STATEMENT OF MS. VALLADOLID MS. VALLADOLID: V-a-l-l-a-d-o-l-i-d. When I first got wind of the smart meters I wanted to stop them all. But I Gloria Valladolid,

didn't know how, so I decided to stop mine. I made calls. I wrote letters. And they

told me I had to pay $75, and I did not want to pay it, but I did not want the meters, so I paid it. In the letter from the Public Utilities Commission it says that one of the reasons to justify the $75 is they are removing the regular meter, putting in the new meter, and then going back to remove the new meter to reinstall the original meter. And none of that ever happened at my house, because I was on it right away. So I have contacted Southern California Edison and asked them for my $75 back, because they are not complying with the PUC guidelines for the $75 fee. And they

have sent me a form letter explaining that

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the PUC has approved the $75.

And when I

called on the phone they gave me about seven more reasons to justify their unfair initial $75. I asked the customer service rep to send me her reasons in writing, and she said she was only a service rep, customer service rep, and she didn't have it in writing and she couldn't send it. And about three more

times in the conversation she referred me to the Internet access where her reasons would be written, and I could see them. And I told

her I did not have access, and we went around and around. And so Southern California Edison is just being unfair all the way around. And I

think that Southern California Edison is trying to raise money wherever they can, because of the high cost that they are suffering from their nuclear power plant being down. And they want to be able to give

their executives big bonuses. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Dhun May, D-h-u-n So I assume

May, and then Armaiti May. Mr. and Mrs. May.

STATEMENT OF MS. DHUN MAY MS. MAY: Thank you for the opportunity

to address you had regarding smart meter

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concerns. There is much anecdotal evidence that smart meters are negatively impacting the health or well-being of many people. there are various scientist papers also, including the 2011 safety report on the possibility of adverse health effects from smart meters, including long-term possible ill effects. Furthermore, that American Academy of Environmental Medicine has recommended that pregnant women and people with high variety of medical conditions not have a smart meter on or in the vicinity of their homes. However, in spite of all this, fees in the amount of $195 for the first year are being extracted from non-CARE opt-out customers by Southern California Edison. the gas company has proposed significantly higher opt-out fees. This means, for And And

example, that Southern California Edison customers at an apartment complex with say 10 units would collectively pay $1,950 or almost $2,000 just for the first year if all choose to opt out and none of them qualify for the lower opt-out fee for CARE customers. Even

though those meters are clustered together.

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Now, while opt-out fees seem to be unfair for customers with stand-alone meters, the situation is much worse for people who live in apartment complexes in terms of this per-customer opt-out fees, because they are not charging us by location, they are charging us per customer. They are more problematic. For one

thing, even while paying the opt-out fees a customer would get little or no benefit, because he or she or his or her family would still get unwanted radiation from other customers in that same apartment complex who did not opt out, if there are such customers. Of course many customers won't opt out only because they don't want to pay the fees or also the possibility they were not aware of all the issues surrounding smart meters. So -- and furthermore, the imposition of opt-out fees on a per-customer basis can create a conflict between tenants in these apartment complexes, and some of them are very huge complexes, you know, 50 or more units. And it can also create a

conflict between the landlord and tenants. So at the very, very, very least, you know, the opt-out fees should be on a

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per-location basis.

If they need to charge a

little extra for the additional meters for whatever -UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. DHUN MAY: No fees.

No fees, I agree. It is

I had a lot more to say. illegal.

For example, if you look at some of

the codes, you know, one of the codes says it is supposed to be reasonable. reasonable. My time is up. It is not Thank you. Armaiti

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Thank you.

May, and then that will be followed by Bettie Ross-Blumer. STATEMENT OF MS. ARMAITI MAY MS. ARMAITI MAY: name is Armaiti May. Good evening. My I

I'm a veterinarian.

have a number of concerns regarding the smart meters as well as the opt-out fees. I think this imposition on consumers to authorize the smart meters by penalizing them with a charge for not allowing them is just one example of many in our society today where technology is being pushed on people before adequate testing has been done to verify safety and health effects of these technologies. Now, it is possible that those who invented this idea or proposed it had good

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intentions, maybe not.

I don't know.

I

would like to learn more about it. point is regardless of whether their

But my

intentions were good or not, we need to look at the effects that these smart meters are having on people's health. I've heard

reports of people having adverse health effects that range from ringing in the ears migraine headaches and a number of other issues. The fact that there are a certain percentage of people who are sensitive to wireless should even underscore the importance of them having some refuge in this whole world where they can be free from that harassment. If have it they can't go into

Starbucks, they can't go into a lot of places where they have WiFi, a least they should be in their own -- comfort of their own home without -(Applause) MS. ARMAITI MAY: It is unfair to

charge these opt-out fees for citizens trying to protect their own health. As the earlier

speaker mentioned, we are all grieving over the loss of the children in Connecticut who were massacred. And what this is, is perhaps

as not as blown up on the media, but it still

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has long-term effects on many people's lives, and effects that we may not even be able to identify for many years to come because it has not been tested adequately. Cell phone towers are an example of health concerns which has become more of an issue because of the numbers of them, and how and how prominent they are, and how close they are to people's residents. There have

been developmental disorders that have occurred from that, brain tumor formation, and many other health issues. In addition to that, as the planet is in a peril condition right now, I have to wonder how sustainable are these so-called smart meters when they have to take them out and replace them with new ones. What are I

they doing with the old analogue meters? would like to now. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: them. MS. ARMAITI MAY:

They destroyed

Thank you for your

consideration please reconsider the opt-out fees. Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Frank Blumer. STATEMENT OF MS. ROSS-BLUMER MS. ROSS-BLUMER: Hi. I'm Bettie Bettie Ross-Blumer

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Ross-Blumer, I'm on the neighborhood council of Winnetka. I'm an assistant secretary I was also

there and also the vice chair. last year a DWP liaison.

I have never heard of this opt out or fees. That has never been discussed. It

has never been raised at the Winnetka Neighborhood Council. I've attended many There is 95 I have

larger council meetings.

neighborhood councils in Los Angeles. not heard this being raised.

I just found

out about this hearing today, early this morning. And are you a commissioner? not have any commissioners here? And to

I'm going

to go back and report this to my neighborhood council. I'm going to blow the whistle on

this to all the neighborhood councils, and there is a lot of us. disregard. I did at one time find out a lot about cell phone towers, and I was very instrumental in keeping the cell phone tower from being put up three doors from my house in a residential neighborhood. In May -- I'm speaking against the opt-out fees, and I'm speaking against smart meters being installed and having a smart To do this in such

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meter grid. On May 31st of 2011 the World Health Organizations International Agency for Research on Cancer classified radiofrequency electric magnetic fields as possibly carcinogenic, causing cancer to humans. Now,

that means that is in the same category as lead. In California we have all these Toys

restrictions for lead, for lead paint.

are restricted when they come in from China possibly lead. This radiation is very

susceptible, as other people have pointed out, to babies and to fetuses and to the young and old and to people having illnesses. To do this with so little disregard for scientific research and for what even the World Health Organization is saying about these EMF and RF, I consider it a huge disregard for human health and safety. And

the cost to lives and health care will be much bigger than what maybe you are saving on employees walking up and checking meters. don't know, but I'm very concerned. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Frank Blumer. I

STATEMENT OF MR. BLUMER MR. BLUMER: you think? Hello. Well, so what do

Do you think some of these people

have pretty smart things to say?

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 vote.

(Applause) MR. BLUMER: impressed. Now, you are listening, right? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MR. BLUMER: Yes, I am. I thought so. I'm

Do you have the power to

make a decision about this? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: I'm the presiding

officer of this proceeding. MR. BLUMER: Could you change any of

these fees or rules or laws? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: I do not have a

However, I'm going to be writing a

proposed decision based on the record in this proceeding. MR. BLUMER: Yeah. So it actually

would be pretty brave to -- don't you think it would be pretty brave to stand up in this and say no? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Let's support

Judge Amy Yipigawa- -- Yipkugawa (laughter) in saying no to smart meter meters fees and to the smart grid. MR. BLUMER: I think for us it is hard

too because it is much easier to agree and send them -- isn't it about $100. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: please turn around? Mr. Blumer, can you

Our reporter cannot hear

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

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you if you are not talking into the microphone. MR. BLUMER: Yeah, okay. Yeah, so I

think it is much easier for the public to just agree. But we all came down here So that means that

because we don't agree.

our public officials have to also not agree, which I don't think would be easy to do. sure that there is plenty of pressure, you think? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: interest. MR. BLUMER: I think there is plenty of But Conflict of I'm

pressure on them to go with the program.

we are all here I think asking, asking you, and asking those who may read this, this is going to be read by -- yeah. So we are And

asking them to not go with the program.

we are asking them to stand up against this, am I right? THE AUDIENCE COLLECTIVELY: MR. BLUMER: Okay. Yes.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

With that, those are all the speakers who have signed up. Is there anyone who would

like to make a comment at this point before we conclude -- yes, sir. yourself. Please identify

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

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STATEMENT OF MR. HYMAN MR. HYMAN: H-y-m-a-n. I want to make one comment, ladies and gentlemen. There is a lot of laws that The My name is Bob Hyman,

protect us that aren't being done.

Federal Statute Title 42 U.S. Code 1983 allows every public official be liable and sued, which no one knows the code. is liable. employees. Everyone

Unfortunately, all you are are You work as public servants. You

are hired as trustees of our affairs, and you are granted privileges. are all employees. It is our land. You

You all need to be fired. Okay. Now, before

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

we conclude, I would like to just comment on some of the things that were said regarding the presence of the commissioners. Although

the commissioners are not present today, as I said, we do have a court reporter here who has been taking down everything that all of you are saying. It is on the record. It is

part of the record of this proceeding. Each commissioner will be receiving a copy of the transcript, and they will read it. I will tell you, I was an advisor to a Every time I

commissioner a few years ago.

received a transcript from public

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

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participation hearings that were of high public interest, I made the point of reading them and telling my commissioner this is what people said. So please don't think that the

fact that they are not present means that they won't be hearing what you have said tonight. I do appreciate all of you coming today. I know that you all came, took time

out of your busy day and came this evening to attend this public participation hearing. do thank you all for attending. Are there any other comments before -- speakers who have not had an opportunity to comment at this point? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: (Inaudible). I

Ma'am, we can talk They do

about that with the Public Advisors.

have an address for you to write letters for people who are not present tonight. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: deadline? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: off the record. We are going to go What is the

These are procedural items

that we are not going to be discussing on the record. So we are off the record now. Thank you very much.

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(Whereupon, at the hour of 7:57 p.m., this matter having been continued to 6:00 p.m., December 18, 2012 at San Clemente, California, the Commission then adjourned.) * * * * *

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

903

BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Ana M. Gonzalez, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11320, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on December 17, 2012. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 17th day of December, 2012.

_________________________ Ana M. Gonzalez CSR No. 11320

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