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way up to a large yacht. You'll need a crew, familiar with 100' schooners and a skipper of same. When you've paid your dues on that boat, you'll be better prepared to look into a custom set of plans for the boat of your dreams. Currently you have no idea what these sailing dreams are, but after you've manhandled a 100' schooner around for a year or two, you'll have much more insight and will likely want a more manageable craft, considerably smaller in length. I know of no set of low cost or free plans for a vessel of that size. A 15' fishing boat sure, but not a large sailing yacht. I currently have 85' and 135' sailboat plans that could be had as a stock plan set. They aren't low cost, but they are very reasonably, considering it's over 50 sheets of drawings. A set of drawings for a craft of this scale will run about 3% of the finished cost of the yacht (minimum) which is a very small price to pay for a boat that will float upright when launched. Hallo Dany.Real good advise for beginners safewalrus. I'am a beginner to sail boat too. Had experience it the hard way myself..Danysordelli, I'am trimming down our family new sail boat(at wood drying stage now) to something more manageable by us alone..o.k we still need some crew and the maids for the kids..a two mast seven sail phinisi at 150 feet LOA, 120 LOD will need 15 crews to sail..(phinisi can be ketch rig or schooner rig) o.k they got to do it manually..but I believe it is a lotsa fun if I'am able to do the sailing meself..70 feet I think is maximum size for a sail boat to be handle without profesional crew..Briand Eiland article on mast aft is one very interesting article to me..Sorry can't help you Dany on the design..our boat builders here just built from memory and experience. Anybody who is interested to have the design actually got to follow the construction progress daily and record every single thing..and for more than 50 pages of at least A3 size paper..it is very hard to come free.. You might consider Roberto Barros, here in Brasil. http://www.yachtdesign.com.br/03_esp...s_espanhol.htm If I were building a project of that size, in metal, I would be talking with Dudley Dix. At any rate you need to get hold of a study plan. There are enough ship yards in your country to build anything you want. There is no rule that you need to start out small. It is your money and you get to spend it any way that you want. None of us here know how much money you have or what your abilities are so advice to downsize might not be good advice? However, if you a pinched for money don't start a project that you will never finish. Gerald jerry you don't seem to grasp why I said start small, read it again it might sink in! Basically with a small vessel you get to play with all the bits of string and do everything, that way you get to learn! As I said above if you can't be bothered going that way buy the biggest boat you can, get a professional crew and let them do the work! You won't learn anything, (means
you'll miss a lot of the fun) and of course you won't know why you loosing a lot of money to a bunch of rip off merchants who tell you that it's your money and you can spend it anyway you can - they know this but at the same time why should they have to be robbed? (bet you could help them spend it eh!) OK I read it again. These gents want to build a big boat. They didn't mention anything about wanting to learn to sail or captain a boat. There may be a thousand reasons to build a boat of that size, for one, a charter service. There is a man from Argentina here in Florianopolis that owns 11 large charter boats the same number of boats that I own. Argentina lies 1,500 kilometers south of here and my shop is for my use only. Not much chance of making money working as a rip off artist when those conditions are considered. Gerald Ok Jerry, get your point, never thought of it that way - like everybody else thought they were interested in becoming 'yottys', But Yeah they could be wanting a cheap charter boat but.......don't think so? Even an owner needs to know something about his boat don't he? Tank all opinion a advices. All have a good reason (experiences) for to write here and i respect it. I looking for a classic design (yr. 1930-1940) not a custom yatch or new yatch. (PAR 3% of the total cost in plan is very reasonable) or where we find it. Wy, because we want to get a boat together. Jerryniff: Charter in Brazil, we never think it, but may be good idea. Ari: I know Pissini (150') plans. Nice machine. My 135' ketch costs over $90,000 US as a stock set of plans. This should give you an idea of the ball park you'll be playing in. A vessel of this size requires considerable commitment. Her basics are 135' LOA, 112' LWL, 25' beam,11' 6" draft, 231,000 pounds displacement, 27% ballast ratio, aprox.6,000 sq. ft. of sail area in a Bermudian ketch rig, 5,000 gals water, 5,700 gals. fuel, berths 20+ in several state rooms. D'Artois, i have a question for u. Engines = 300.000 EU Mast = 125.000 EU Wy found boat for 200.000 EU and you pay 300.000 EU only for the engine. Wy is the huge price variances In Argentina we found any part for a very low diferent price.
So i agree, one 100' schooner is not boat for sail alone. The boat I described was a navy-sailing vessel transformed into a yacht. So, the hull was already there and had the required characteristics for sailing. What I am talking abouts is that you have to start from scratch. Or, maybe you will find a hull of a fishing vessel of traditional lines that maybe a basis for the boat you want. In this particular respect, the Schooner rig is the best one and also very efficient; more efficient than a Ketch rig. Wooden masts here in Holland are more expensive than aluminium ones, so that might answer your question. Simply taking a long spar in way of a mast is out of the question. Boats in this particular length are very costly to maintain, Gasoil, lubrication oil, the daily jobs, the supporting systems - everything requires daily attention and daily repair. I don't know what you can get in Argentina or not, I have not the slightest idea's what pricwes are, but I do export a lot of ship's parts all over the world and so prices cannot vary that much: on the contrary. My company is specialised in supplying foreign navies so only parts that are manufactured in Argentina could be less expensive than similar parts manufactured in e.g. Germany or Holland. It is a simple tale of economics. If you start from scratch, you have to perfom the work yourself or yolu need hired labour. As a beginner you are not capable of installing a main engine and all the components around by yourself. So you require some shipwrights to do the major works. Of course your team can help. In way of doing you are learning, however it will be an expensive lesson... Talk to Thomas Colvin, he designed and extensively sailed many different types of Chinese junks. Some of them are for open sea and some of those are quite fast according to T.C. http://www.thomasecolvin.com/chinese_junks.htm Milan MMMMmm............ depend wat type of junk u wanna built. Cargo and travelling home type differ. Remember this it is stable but not intented to be a fast sail. It would take ages for u to
Ap Liu Chou... What I and others have made the point on.they love Ulin..........travel the world..this place have boat maker(traditional) The wood is better than ulin.... It will be a good boat house that can move into river...! :d Depends on size. You don't necessarily have to build the thing from scratch.. because you're at the limit at what can be handled by one person (without tech aids)... Size... winches. some withstand typoone but i would not recomment it. Sounds like good advice.The choosen wood for Tuai rumah and warriors tomb (something like totem pole).In Malaysia Ulin are called Belian (Diamond).. A real junk was intented for trade travel in group to foreign land. but enough room for your family and pets. Much have been written about that.. How much time will you two spend knocking rust? Painting? Varnishing? And space-wise. keep it as small as possible. choice is in your hand. About the bigger boat feeling safer. rig.. you also have so much more space to gather speed through the saloon in rough weather....... do much more to the interior and so forth. but those Toredo could'nt careless about it. that once again...Minus those worm. Also.. but the interiour difference will be about twice of that of a 33footer.. I say. resulting in you having to get much bigger sails... check it out in HongKong will be nice... I have to say... 45ft is still microclass. I would venture that steel would be cheaper for the larger ones.. And to try to build a 40ft+ .Those boat builders from Trengganu do converse in more or less same slang with the Bugis from Indonesia. I think. the upkeep. I haven't calculated it. to put it shortly.. I like it small.. is that simply substantially restoring..the moment you're near a shipping lane. I would suggest a multi-hull. fast and room to spare.. it isn't....... Ulin is real hard and heavy... during and after.. carry lots of cargo and humans labour. It is so hard to know what you want untill you have actually tried the things out... especially if shorthanded (remember that you _will_ be sailing it alone.Ulin will survive for a few hundred years in an open to nature environment. As a sidenote . modifying or improving a boat will probably give you more than enough of that feeling. But then again.. all things being equal.....Chengal are Toredo free.posibbly from the same clan. anchors. if there is too much space.... then everything you do will rely on tech.... that way you might even be able to live a little more.... when your better half is off watch).. both before. and. In another thread I (and others) have talked before about that "I did it all myslelf" feeling that a lot of us seem to be after.. pig tails..
Best luck whatever you choose. I like 'mucking with boats' but sailing is really what I want to do. The hull will be strip planked with Kauri and 2 x 45 deg. like the interior fit out.. I tell you. But for 70.. Buy a fiberglass boat with some of the features you think you are after very soon.... I have changed the interior design slightly to improve the living and give more bunks now 7... work on or modify.. But after doing all the work I have done restoring my first boat. and then either continue with your building plans.... you can always play at being a builder too. and it might just put you off your dream of sailing round the world. even with winches and a split sail plan etc. a deck house.. Maybe do some work on it to get the feel and scale of how much work will be required to build your own..... what do you want to be more. or a sailor? If you buy a boat.. and furniture at 45ft with sail of course and anker Then again better craftman would cost more. giving a total of 32mm thick. I would go out there and do like Karsten says.. bare minium interior. US$ 170. not building. I believe 30mm to be the minimum to be seaworthy. Get out on the water. The question is.... there is always something to fix. Or if you even want to go round. or just hunt down the sort of boat you want. a boat builder. Sell it before your three years is up. I am building a Sparkman & Stephens 45ft yawl in New Zealand from a 1945 design. a wooden 30 footer..) Ok.. Pretty soon you will have a much clearer idea of what you want for a round-the-worlder... and then add on the final touches I would want. I am also infected with that dream about building my own round-the-worlder..boat for your first build? You might never finish.000 you'll get a Phinisi Schooner with a small engine. for 40+ft and equipment and world sailing expense. So I think when It comes time for me to get my round-the-worlder. you are pretty much stuck being a builder untill you finish the thing.. laminates placed on laminated frames.000.... . But make sure whatever you do. I shall be buying. I think I would much rather just buy the sort of hull and rigging that I am after. However if you start to build your own boat. etc etc.. or you want to modify to. you start to get out there on the water in the sort of boats you think you are after (crewing or whatever it takes.. Many people don't.boat and travelling expense? I think you are crazy if you are still in Europe. In the three years you say you have.. I think 45ft is the biggest that a short-handed crew could manage.....
I have a rendering guy coming to work for me but still in Surabaya. I began to realised how much I lack understand about the boat building industry. To build this boat in the USA would cost >USD1m.3 months a year is good enough ?There is charter program that can be arrange when you are not around. This thread reveal not a spur of hot air.. He would do a detail rendering of the Trader 65 later from the study plan with my modification. 3 years hammering of my wallet and other resources.000 Installation of equipment .000 Painting .have fun. New built boat prices are a function of the cube of the length. In Europe.sail this region when ever you are free..USD40... Hallo Andreasmehlin.if your budget is tight for Europe market.sailing..a few thousand bars and pubs to crawl. You can get a boat. I deciede to make my own first boat from a designer and real NA.000 Equipment .come to Asia. churchs.. He did not get any spec from me.000..plus 3 crew..a few thousand temples.. .... I would want to outfit it for circumnavigate but rather I think I would private charter it until I am near even before venture sailing and cruising from inter island Indonesia and later to the world.That USD200K is real hugh value here. but a calculated mean of redesign Bruce Roberts Trader 65 ft to fit my junk need. It is not expensive compare to my sanity..when you are ready to sail on your own and circumnavigate. I could imagine it would cost Euro750...mosques and so on. I can tell you the following: Hull.all finished USD320..and still keep your job and house back home in your country.As far as costings are concerned...and so cheap..a few thousand islands to explore...USD40.. Do not think you can do it for any less. the more I read into the old thread with great post by the amount of people who love boat design. I began to enlighten and had a need.welcome. Cosmetic only.. deck and interior . That why.I attach this site for you to see what the others had done. except the weblink of Bruce Robert and the model. I have bought study plan of the Trader 65 and would want to explore the possibility before I buy the full plan and start my Max. Yup.. almost.after alots of month reading and communication.USD 8000 and that is tight costing. looks like I'am not the only dreamer.why not get a good 70 footer Indonesian built wooden boat. with boat builder and shipwright.USD100.. than only you go for it.000 Spars and sails . Hi.! I had attach this hyperlink before in other thread...dive.
but not all of them. I like most of Dudley Dix's work. to boot) probabaly isn't worth it. At some level. Ted Brewer is an extremely respected designer of traditional cruising boats. after spending untold years putting his bathtub together. Bruce Roberts has some reasonably nice design. I am not familiar with his bigger designs. have owned a Trader 65 or have any idea what I need to include in this boat. The discounted prices that may make used Roberts designs attractive at first glance are an indication that the market is wary of homebuilt boats of unknown quality that. but he also has quite a few worse than mediocre designs in his catalog. He seems to have a good sense of proportion and seems to do the kind of careful engineering and detailing that produces good boats. Outside ofthis thread I am not hearing any accolades about Roberts boats. too. Some old designs are classics. How about Dudley Dix? or Ted Brewer? Am I missing any other good designers of steel boats? These guys seem to be in the same business. I was once on their mailing list. Hmm OK. There are enough used boats of known construction quality and known sailing characteristics that taking a risk with a Roberts design (which may have been modified from the plans by the builder. produces designs which would not be very appealing to sailors who care how well a boat sails. . I agree with the comments above. don't necessarily move forward easily or handle well. His Spray series. while quite popular. but fails to mention how long the design has been around or how well it actually performs. and so I see her underway quite often. The likely builder-owner. isn't likely to be too critical of his "baby". Wellydeckhand Bruce Roberts seems to have a good marketing department. I am less impressed with that design. pls dont hesitate to contribute your ideas into my boat as a friend. I am a beginer and I hope to start from here. The pleasant-sounding copy describes what the boat is intended for. My father owns one his 42 foot FRP production boats and it has been an excellent boat. insofar as sending out plans. His 65 foot Liberte' design sails out of Annapolis. though they may float.If anybody. In the 60 foot range I really like his Dix 64 which (except for its extreme shoal draft for a boat this size) is a very moderate and seemingly well thought through design. Pictures of vessels under way are included. even if it took him months to make a trip others do in weeks. with some testimonials from Papua New Guinea or some such place. I don't know about their reputations or any thrid party details about their boats either.
Narragansett. Designers. he was someone who genuinely understood what made a boat work and tried very hard to produce good designs. I also like the work of Yves Tanton who is a very ingenious designer and who seems to produce very clever designs. 02882). If you were going to build a boat this large. charter) Where do you plan to sail this boat? How experienced are you as a sailor or boat builder? This is an enormous boat that will take a large crew to handle safely. Van der Stadt is extremely respected for their very high quality steel boat designs. If I were going to do a custom design. Do you plan to build this boat yourself.Tom Colvin is a guy who thinks out of the box. His designs are beautiful to look at. or have a yard build it. a design that works for your specific needs and goals. I am more familiar with their midsized modern designs and their 35 to 42 foot older designs. it sounds like you want a steel 60 footer with an antiquated rig I think that it would be easier to answer your question about designers of steel boats. but I have known owners of their larger designs who have raved about their boats. and frankly if you are going through the trouble to custom build a boat. He has designed a wide range of traditionally based metal boats. Roberts has the designs that seem to fit. I worked on a number of his steel designs and I think that watching him work. but more importantly extremely well thought through and carefully crafted. While all kinds of grand claims have been made for these boats. if we understood what you are trying to accomplish with this boat. In other words. have strong design personalities that inform the thousands of design decisions that must be made in the course of producing a design. I worked for the late Charlie Wittholz who had a great eye and was a very conscientious designer. I would strongly suggest that you contact Antonio (Tony) Dias (Antonio Dias Design 171 Cedar Island Road." and at the heart of it. these are good solid boats that seem well suited to the non-performance oriented distance cruiser. I seriously want to suggest that you consider a custom design. then the small incremental cost of doing a custom design only makes sense. What is your goal for a boat this big? Why are you focusing on Steel? . Last I heard. live-aboard. distance cruise. his family was still selling his designs. I think that in reality. Tanton's norm. Only you know what you want out of a boat. I have known Tony for may years and I really love his work. or buy a used boat? What do you plan to do with this boat? (i. "My dream boat is a steel hull schooner or ketch with lots of room.e. The only set of his drawings that I have seen was somewhat incomplete but I don't know whether that reflects that specific owner's objectives or Mr. RI. I do want to touch on the premise of this thread. like the people who buy their designs.
In this world of instant communication his being in S.. then you will find the Roberts stuff to be all over the place in terms of construction quality and "personalised" specs. If you are talking about finding existing hulls. It is a conservative looking boat. All the above would have a long list of designs under their belt . should be no obstacle. comfortable ketches.. rather than starting from scratch. Big. I think that building a 60 foot boat fomr the ground up that is not custom made exactly to your specs is like throwing away a million dollars to avoid spending 20. Years back I met a fellow from Wash state who had built a semi-custom hardchine version of the Norseman 440.perhaps one of their designs could be tweaked to suit your needs and/or reflect more modern thinking. with a very liveable interior plan.. but in the end spends most of her time coastal cruising (and casual racing!).d.. in aluminum as an offshore boat and they are very happy with it. This Perry production design was modified by Perry for the builder. It helped that the builder was something of a perfectionist. Here's a . It has been down the west coast a couple of times to Mexico. Best wishes for your project however you take it! Reply With Quote OK. I got a hcance to sit down and review the advice coming in on designers. also in aluminum.... Dix has a good reputation for easy-to-build designs that perform well.I don't particularly like the Roberts designs either.A.000.they design boats even Jeff H and I can agree to like! A couple of anecdotal tales: An acquaintance has (and had built) a custom Brewer 42. Brewer has a proven track record.many of which do not work because they were thought up by the amatuer guy welding the thing together in his backyard rather then someone that has a clue. fast.Stadt has eons of experience in this medium. Shack. and the result was impressive.I would add Steve Dashew's designs to that list for a modern boat in that size range and constructed of aluminium or steel.Check out Van de Stadt designs. v..
I have heard second hand that he is also very reasonably priced for someone of his expertise and experience. I would agree with the suggestion that you add Bob Perry to your list.a player Dudley Dix .cheap. good engineering skills. here? I see you left Robert Perry off you list . cutting edge stuff Anyone see a key player missing.curiosoity? Yves Tanton . and the wrong call can prove very expensive if not lethal. and lots of experience. Which comes back to the question at hand. with the tag line 'build it and they shall sail'. Although not the first name that might come to mind for a cruising boat.looks nice. In many ways.farrdesign. He's also a good communicator and a very decent person. get what you pay for risky? Ted Brewer . but building based on bad decisions is wildly expensive. an updated version of Farr Design Number 86 http://www.solid and experienced. .solid and experienced. good common sense. Designing and having a custom boat requires a vast amount of informed decisions.htm would be near the top of my list. it is really hard to develop the kind of knowledge base that will allow a novice to make the right call. Tech support at Farr has been excellent. Modifying an existing design by a top notch designer may actually be a very reasonably priced way to go. I own one of the 38's from that series. and have sailed on one of the 54 or so footers. Bob Perry is a good as they come when it comes to designing cruising boats. Sometimes I think this place should be change its name from Sailnet to 'Field of dreams'. I must say that you are thinking really huge considering how little sailing experience you say you have.people like his stuff Tom Colvin . He has a great eye.summary. I think if I were looking for my ideal distance cruiser over 50 feet. fast yachts Van der Stadt .strongly recommended Tony Dias . Bruce Farr designed a series of really wonderful cruising boats in the late 1970's and early 1980's that would be really super cruisers even today. 'Don't do it'. understands what it takes to produce good performance and good sea manners. A great yacht designer can help steer you through the process but ultimately there are a whole lot of subjective decisions that have to be made along the way and with all due respect when you talk about a boat this large. Which is not to say. Bruce Roberts .strongly recommended Steve Dashew . ditto Charlie Wittloz (RIP) . As we used to joke on a similar subject. Great short-handed sailing boats.he may be worth consideration as well. building boats based on good marine design decisions is expensive.com/086.
Jay is very much out of the Ted Brewer mold. Karl. I would also consider sheathed cold-molded wood construction. priced by equal strength and equal size. but really are not very practical for distance cruising.Another designer who I really like is Jay Benford. Brewer. I know Jay personally and have always thought he would be a great guy to work with. I would give serious thought to some of the new Marine Aluminum Alloys. but I think that Jay has stayed a little more current in his thinking than the venerable Mr. He designed Patience Wales' (from Sail Magazine) boat a few years back and I was very impressed with that design. So you end up with a MUCH heavier boat because all of your specs go up. and with a concern for safety and durability. I have known Robb for over 25 years and he's very good at what he does. Although aluminum sounds expensive by the pound. I also like Robb Ladd from Annapolis. bigger and heavier rig to .and in fact requires MORE ballast in the right places to compensate for the heavier hull. Several years ago. which again is probably one of the least maintenance and one of the highest strength per pound techniques that you can use in that size range. an adaptation of which eventually became the Morris 45. Weight does not equate to safety or performance unless it is in the right place. Then there is Chuck Paine (C. Schooner rigs are neat to sail if you have no where to go or are a museum ship.Paine) who has a sterling reputation.there are a couple of problems with your reasoning in the last post. (dawg-gone-it I am drawing a blank on his last name) at Chesapeake Marine Design has a really nice eye and I think would produce a very nice traditional design. End of lunch so back to work. In that size range.W. if you plan to sail the boat shorthanded.. I ran into Reindeer at Bert Jabins yacht yard in Annapolis and I found myself standing there just gawking in awe at her design. Other advice. Also he's just a good guy just to talk to. More ballast to hold it upright. I would seriously give up the idea of a traditional schooner rig. Maryland. Jeff Ummm... First and foremost is that "weight" of materials or hull on its own does nothing for safety or stability except slow you down and expose you to more chance of being caught out by bad weather fronts. there is a lot less weight to be purchased. was one of the most impressive modern cruisers that I have seen in recent years. His design for Reindeer.. Having a heavy steel hull does nothing for stability.
End of the world. Got to go... Start by reading broadly (Beyond US based designs and boat building concepts). And by the way.. It is only when a client has overlapping restrictions on ALL fronts that he is left shaking his head. The europeans are huge on aluminium boats.. then he can usually make it all come togetehr. You end up with boats that mostly have the sailing characteristics of arthritic wombats. . You will then be more self sufficient then a GRP boat in most circumstances.) Get a designer. making up for the builder's expected lack of skills (A good assumption given their business model) and access to higher tech materials by substituting "bulk" and low tech. Suppose to be great stuff... in the case of any worth working with.pack a miniwelder the size of a woman's handbag. Boats that are designed and tank tested and refined to be made of aluminium are going to sail and sit at very different lines if constructed of steel. Next point you may wish to reconsider is that the design and the materials are.And with aluminium.But compared to a modern marine grade aluminium. So do not start by shopping the design.You end up chasing your own tail to no greater purpose at all. it's major saving grace is cost and ease of repair in foreign ports.. Tell him you want a certain flavour above waterline and a lot of comfort. I think there is a lesson here..that is the quintessential defintion of most Bruce Robert's designs. you can carry around a of 6x4 sheet of patch material and not have the weight issues seem silly the way you would with steel. and easier to work with than steel (weight and tooling..and those are the success stories. and a TIG kit. as are New Zealanders and quite a few of the top-end Australian and South Africans. As long as a good designer has a free hand in at least one facet of the design. Sasha I recently took a trip to SE Alaska and spent some time there wandering the docks. linked at a very real level. But on a 65footer. bigger and heavier gear to control the rig... This is serious fishing territory and fishermen are serious about reliability and longevity. Steel has it's benefits. crying baby. I was very surprised to see a large number of Aluminum hulls. then tell him that he can do whatever he needs to below the waterline to give you the best of all possible worlds.move the extra weight around. The construction specs are also going to be somewhat different. SASHA I heard much about the corrosive resistance marine grade aluminum (5000 series I think).. My estimate is that way more then 60% of Roberts design hulls are dotting backyards and factory land as lawn art and sculptures to grand ideas left 1/4 finished. I love being a dad..
.... Now I ignored much of his advice in the form of data and hard facts (still gambling that might pay off) but I did pick up some really valuable ways of seeing things to do with boat ownership. Best money you will ever spend in boating! Here endeth the late and probably unnessacerily pompous lesson. sails.And this is a size XXL but. So lets say you decide to go with a kit plan design. So your .. I know). that will fly together. Now you have saved a bit on the hull...gradually it will all gell. and you will get some experience in the meantime. boat is a great stress relief and sanity keeper. Just go sailing. With a pricey construction material like aluminium you can probably call it 35%. having thought about your case. That is a year and a half of free boat hire and sailing lessons. less efficient hull around) and rigging and hardware and so on. He taught me a lot when I went looking for my boat.. After a few months of this you can start approaching designers and yards with a lot more confidence.what the hell do I want to do with 65 feet???' type questions which nothing but ownership will get you (like the fun game of "track that smell". experience and design testing and development.I promise that you will sell the 26 footer from the 1970's for almost exactly the same money you paid for it. BUT..). DO NOT SPEND MONEY SPRUCING IT UP. This means that you still need to pay very real money for riggin. every weekend if you can..including of the stuff that no one ever thinks about "I am knackered just scrubbing the hull on a 26footer. The choice of hull is the MAIN determinate in the boats resale value thereafter...but you still have to buy top of the line spars (especially to push the heavier... and build it (really well) using fibro cement (I might be guilding the lilly somewhat for this example. spars.allbeit smaller.By the way. as well as hobby.. The main one of these I have found to be of great value ever since (and which has proved itself well and truly accurate) is that the hull represents about 30% of the monetary investment that makes a "boat". Goodnight There is a very wise man on this forum named Jeff H. being able to go sailing on yor own . Doesn't have to be anything other then a dodgem car as long as it doesn't actually sink out form under you... Keep looking at big boat designs and ideas as you do this. electronics. It will take them most of a year to build your boat. When the new boat is all doen and sea trialed and "yours". fit out etc.. When that happens. My advice would be to spend a couple of thousand dollars and buy a nice old GRP 26footer of some semi-decent kind. Do not try and own the prettiest boat in the harbour. And keep a log of what you do and don't like and notions that come to you as you go. Not the hull alone. but I promise that it will bog down at some point.
If I were you. If you don't love it or use it (while you are figuring out what you really want in a larger boat) you may save yourself a very costly and time-consuming error.. it may cause you to rethink the aluminim or steel hull and even the 60 + ideas.. One can certainly cruise the world comfortably in a boat in the 40 to 48 foot range with a far greater flexibility (and a much smaller crew or even single-handed) and without all the maintenance issues caused by a steel hull. I'd find an old Pearson 323 or something like it and continue working on the master plan. I hope that it all works out well for you. Turawon & such they can build tougher than steel hulls out of glass now and you don't have to live with any of metal's drawbacks. Most people get into metal for high latitude sailing or due to their own boat-building skills or because they have some exotic design they can't get executed any other way.saving is not that huge across the entire project. When buying a used sailboat off a website or magazine. Arimid.. they make the trade off because building their big boat in the BR way means they get to spend $100 here and there over a period of years instead of having to cough up thousands upon thousands at a go. Also. consider that the budget for the big bit that you actually sit in and live in and think of as "the boat. why is it again that you've decided on a metal boat? With Kevlar.. When building. It is a great rule of thumb to not have financial heart attacks and crippling delays due to cost over-runs. or if they do. Rememebr. yours and where you need it to be (as well as insured and legal and such). This is basically what BR design builders do not seem to realise.and getting it NOW..... mostly" is only 1/3 of what the total cost is going to need to be.. That's a really good reason to use the rule of thumb! Can't claim to have any familiarity with Bruce Roberts designs but I think this is very good advice. It seems to me that you are searching for a design and won't be building it yourself so is the Arctic in your future? . This makes sense to some poeple and thus it has a market. as the rest goes on what it takes to make the boat. do not calculate spending every dollar in your budget ont he purchase price. So the deal is. The choice of hull material and design has devalued the rest of your investment. any money you have left over at the end of the project just translates as buying extra time and freedom to actually spend sailing (the cruising kitty). ready. In all events I wish you the best and envy you putting your dreams into action. But when you go to sell it. What you want to spend is about 75% of your budget.I would rather decide between buying a small and reasonable boat I could afford right now or taking out a loan and absorbing the interest as the cost of getting something good. A smaller boat (to start) is a great way of finding out if the actuality stands up to the romantic.It will be just another concrete boat that people shake their heads at. Shack..
A long time ago. Just go in with eyes wide open. and none came close to the workmanship of this boat. There is a saying: "The worst boats are home-built. but those things are not too difficult to change out. While I own a steel boat I didn't set out to go steel it just happened that the right boat turned out to be steel. The interior is a little funky. west system etc) and concrete. Since then. until I stumbled into the boat I own now. I have viewed a number of European and N. American steel hulls. and I was on target with my initial analysis." So. The other thing I will say about buying a "custom" boat is that irrespective of the build quality and sailing characteristics. The hull. Magnusmurphy. and the best boats are home built. Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in these matters. The "brand name" issue comes into play.Camaraderie asks a good question there Shack. There's a huge discount for "custom". I finally concluded that it was a foolish idea to try to build a large sailboat (I was hoping for something in the 50 ft range). But back to your question: There certainly are plenty of Roberts designs out there on the seas cruising. I own a (oh dear) production boat from one of the Big Three. I discovered that the guy who built it owns and operates a steel fabrication company. It almost sounds more like a rebuttal than a testimonial. While advertised as a home built. I was intrigued by the idea of building my own sailboat. I had a "professionally built" Bruce Roberts 40. Just an interested novice who enjoys discussion. and I looked extensively into the Bruce Roberts designs. I'm sure you are not contemplating selling the boat in the finite future. . don't cross home-built off your list. a Catalina 42 (bias admitted). Quite frankly I prefer the low maintenance option but the only materials I would definitely rule out would be planked timber (and I don't include cold moulded. but resale value should be part of your own consideration in valuation of a prospective boat. Give me an owner built boat any day. Went so far as to buy one of his books. and boats built by recognized yards seem to hold value better. Q I had a strong bias against home built. Some of the stuff the "professionals" did was beyond belief. OTOH. my readings suggest that these boats have tended to be extremely difficult to sell once one owns one. triple diagonal planked. but one thing I will remark about the ad you linked to: it's the defensive tone used to describe the boat in the ad. I fully expect that our next boat will be glass again. and corresponded with Bruce Roberts himself. He built the boat for himself and only sold it because he's now building a 44 footer. who seems very earnest and approachable. is to die for. yes. I have reviewed a lot of opinion about building one's own boat.
But 24 months later having learnt how to layup. I have sailed on a Roberts 43.so whatever you look at be it home built or production .org site. fit bulkheads. well-mannered. which even Bob Perry said was a wonderful surprise in terms of how mannerly it was. As opposed to some that have a very narrow notch where they are well-trimmed. I spent my spare time over 2 years building a GRP Swarbrick S97 and had never done anything like it before. IMHO it was a better build quality than seen on most production yachts. and shows how boat design really is an arcane art.just make sure its surveyed before you part with the cash. A boat that is simply sweet. with no one on the helm.In this economy. there are no real savings in a home built. I've been told by a friend of Roberts . For me it was cost effective.most of then chosen on their ease of self build in stell as opposed to sailing quality. not for being any one thing. for that reason. and the builders did tamper with the design (changing the keel-stepped mast to a kludged deck-stepped one with an offset support). As in life.) It may be relatively heavy. cut and weld all stainless. he charges a $10. build furniture. a boat that is well balanced. Like others have said. I'd have to say the most well-mannered one I've sailed on yet has been the Islander28. install engine. Was not real impressed with the design. I built a Roberts 34(steel). (And the basis for a number of his later and larger designs. Check out the discussuion on skeg failures on Roberts designs on the metalboatsociety. or need constant tending on the helm (like a J/24). What's the sweetest boat you've ever sailed on? By that I mean.. a pleasure to sail on. There are thousands of Roberts yachts out there cruising . Sat low on her lines and was not a great sailing boat. but it balances quite easily and then continues to sail itself. can be easily trimmed to hold a course on her own. but for being so well-mannered that it puts others to shame.that if you ask him to find a builder. Sold it 48 months on for double my hard costs. A boat that doesn't pound in sloppy seas. without an autopilot or a hand on the rudder. At the time got me into a 35 foot race yacht fully kitted for maybe 30% of a new production boat of similar specification. Something I haven't seen done on any number of boats from any number of makers. . you generally get what you pay for .000 finders fee..it's a mixed bag. and then politely holds it. A boat that sets her shoulder in a blow. So what boat has particularly impressed you? Not for being fast. both larger and smaller.
dry and comfortable. though. Sweet sled ride. But I'd have to say the sweetest boat I've been on would be our recent week on a friends' Passport 40 in Mexico. wind was 12-15. But then. she handles well although a little tempermental when you are first getting a feel for her. so I'm not really sure exactly what it is. there aren't too many boats that are! Still. My friend said it was a 52 deck.7. After that she's like a race horse. rushing into the teens there too. Sweet. WOW.5 kts..000 my friends have one helluva boat. steady. Anyway.. Next was my Irwin 37. track on course with barely a touch on the helm. An amazing custom racer/cruiser. extremely well designed and one of a kind. Just last week we went out on our friend's custom-built Columbia 50 for the first time. They sailed the boat from Maui to Friday Harbor three years ago in April. and with a single reefed main and 130 genoa we effortlessly did 8. for $60. planing into the double digits with the kite up.. Yep. she'll still point at 30 degrees apparent and.... Solid. I've sailed bigger and faster. with very little helm. Then there is Larry's Pearson Vangard. sweet ride. Nelson Marek 68. She felt strong and powerful. It's not as fast or as pretty as Gulietta. Rock solid. Island packet 485. Still a Gary Mull design. Same for the 38 Endeavor next to me.. 15kts easy... I'd lean towards my Passport 40... On a par with that was surfing down the rollers off St Vincent on a Bene 36. Easy. if you balance the sails right. Made a winner out of me. so the original builder stretched the hull to fit. Best memories are slicing through the Mac fleet at 81/2 knots in 7 knots true wind going upwind and surfing at 17 knots in 8 foot waves and . Took them 14. and she barely broke 20 degees heel..great riding boat.. Giulietta. It wasn't finished by the factory.. That's pretty good even for some TransPac times. I love it. verging on luxurious. extremely well mannered. and goes like the wind.. racing in Howe Sound with 20+ knots and flat water. Goes straight without touching the helm. (funny) __________________ The coolest rides we've had was on our Martin 242. slices through 6 to 7 footers. Beautiful lines. What a sweet sailor! We were just outside of Friday Harbor between San Juan and Lopez. Hinckley SW-42.. but none sweeter.5 days... great lines. Even loaded down with thousands of pounds of cruising gear. smaller and faster.I'm going with the C&C 30 MKII.. Palmer Johnson 43. Sailed out f Baltimore in 30 knot winds with all sheets up.
J/34c sails well.tedbrewer. you might have a valid point. Sold it in a weak moment. Please note that I didn't build it. now MIKE DAVIS. I just designed the deck and interiors. i. the Tartan 37's get really good marks in my book. but that's all I did. but I can only give this boat praise. and whose hull mould was used on my boat. SHe is fast (loves running in the 7's). http://www. lazarette. If it were simply a question of. But my wife would not budge on the last one as we have two boys. as you can imagine. some difficulty in her system runs. I'm the third crew from the stern. I did varnish a piece once. and has a nice. sure footed. a J/37. but not quite as nice as the J/37. I think there are better boats out there.htm ICHIBAN A 33' Aluminum Junk Rig . The real question concerns the boats resistance to rolling in the first instance. Picture is boat going under the Bluewater bridge in Port Huron. I had it built by Delmar Conde Yard. Very well mannered boats. I am not saying that because she is my current boat. the point at which the boat will continue to roll over through 360 degrees rather than self-right from the direction of the knockdown. a yard with a vast experience and over 60 sailing vessels all hand built. My current boat. Her drawbacks are her draft.e. Many of them fall well short. very comfortable down below. the best one I have ben on is actually the Catalina 400. slow. My last boat. I have sailed a bunch of boats. and that she has two small heads versus one good one. and it's pretty rare for coastal designs to meet those minimum requirements. Also. She was fast and easy to sail. I am being honest. 5 times Portuguese Champ. easy motion. "How does the crew fare when the boat rolls?". Still. Delmar is also the Builder of PT INOVAÇÃO. and I spent countless days and hours admiring them work. But it's not even the keel design that is at issue when distinguishing between "bluewater" and coastal boats. Wow! I can stand up and walk around without looking for something to hold onto. to fit in a racing hull!! That's all I did. in Aveiro Portugal. Seawind 33 catamaran. regardless of keel design. all else equal. well balanced. Designers can calculate the limit of positive stability (LPS).com/sail_aluminum/ichiban. There are minimum suggested LPS figures for off-shore boats. Boat sails like a big dinghy.25 knots of wind in control. points well. Welcome to flat sailing.
wave. Her owner reports that she performs very well indeed and. reefing and tacking are all simplified with the fully battened junk rig so she can be single handed with ease when required. Moondancer is no exception. Although we had seen pictures of the Chinese junk-rigs that have sailed around Hong Kong's harbor and many other places in the Orient for hundreds of years. Why did we decide to build a junk-rigged vessel? Aside from the simplicity of sailing.gif (26442 bytes) click drawing to see larger image The unusual rig spreads generous sail area yet it is very easily handled. Junk-rigs. and take pictures. So. Standing the Test of Time . However. She really doesn't like to sail upwind. as befits a live-aboard yacht. as a rule. Ichiban---sailplan. Her radius bilge aluminum hull is strong and requires only low maintenance. ICHIBAN makes up for it in off wind speed and the ease of tacking. The accommodations are comfortable and homelike. All in all. we share a kinship with our boat.Brewer Design #154 ICHIBAN is a custom yacht and was designed as a permanent retirement home for a couple with occasional guests. Thus. with the good comes the bad. I swell with pride. can't point as high as Bermuda-rigged sloops. how does our boat sail? We absolutely love the way Moondancer sails on a beam reach or deeper. we discovered a long time ago that we don't like to beat too hard upwind either. Twenty knots of wind at our back is the ideal condition for all of us. though she might give away a point to windward. we built this particular boat because we fell in love with her lines. it had to be something unique and beautiful. she has very generous stowage for a vessel of her size and this is essential for a full time retirement home afloat. We decided that if we were going to take a few years off to build a boat. people onshore smile. When the wind comes over the stern and we let the sails out on either side. They have voyaged to Central America and the Caribbean with no problems and still find that the rig and general design suits their needs to perfection. The fin keel/skeg rudder underbody reduces wetted surface and contributes to good light air performance and an easy helm. ideal for a retired couple. As sailors. it never occurred to us that we would build a similar boat. At times like that. Surely there is nothing more beautiful than a junk running wing-and-wing. As well. ICHIBAN is worth consideration as she is one couple's answer to long term voyaging and they gave a great deal of thought to their needs. Setting sail.
is that unlike Bermudian rigs. Probably because more modern hulls have greater capability. Apparently. The hybrid vessel was faster than the Chinese boat and much more weatherly than than European boat. . It is not only needed to steer the vessel but to provide latteral ressistence as well. claims Blain. If it should strike ground. but its latteral resistance as well. Maybe that comes from Greek galleys that had to be beached every night and Viking ships that also served as landing craft. is imposed by the boat's hull shape. contact Blain at: Junk Rig And Advanced Cruising Rig Association 373 Hunts Pond Road Fareham Hants PO14 4PB phone 44 01329 842613. and take advantage of the West's greatest contribution to sailing vessel design.. these sails are so efficient that they don't have to be tended as closely. especially one that's expected to do blue water work and sail in poorly charted areas. these are the most quiet sails available because they don't slat and snap against the rigging. The big weaknes of a junk is its huge ballanced rudder. the current Secretary of the Junk Rig Association based in the UK. Even modern high performance sailboats usually have the keel considerably deeper than the rudder. He says that junk-rigged racing boats have been proven to sail within 35 degrees of the wind.. As I have said before. He refutes the criticism that a junk rig can't sail to windward. Blain claims that the efficiency of the junk rig also has other advantages: The sails needn't be made of high-tech materials. says Blain. But.so cheap to maintain. It projects well below the vessel's bottom and only retracts virtically.. For additional information on the Junk Rig Association. the vessel could lose not only its steering. there isn't any rigging.I love it too. that was a big improvement on 16th and 17th century ship design.000 years ago by Chinese mariners and has only gotten better with time. Beautiful rig. A big part of traditional Western keel design has been sturdiness and rudder protection. The junk's only limitation on windward ability. And yet have a boat that looks like a junk. I see no reason not to put a full keel on a junk. I believe it was the Portuguese who first started putting junk rigs on Western hulls. Blain says that this rig configuration was developed 2.One of the strongest and most vocal proponents of the junk rig is Robin Blain.so easy to make. and compared to Bermuda rigs. Another beauty of the junk rig.
For a fast, comfortable, blue water capable and roomy cruiser that is also affordable, I would nominate the Kelly Peterson 44. I would think many people would like an Oyster of manageable size, say 50 ft. etc. They are made for short handed sailing and are quite nice below. Seriously - the Oyster range of boats have always been appealing cruising yachts. This one the 53 - has the sort of configuration - that I like - with the high safe and roomy, centre console (needs a roof for cruising) - and that stern boarding area. Hallberg Rassy 48 Not to be a stick in the mud, but best really depends on who is going to be sailing her. Different people, different needs. For my wife and I, a Catana 50 is probably the best. I think anything designed by Colin Archer would have to be on my short list. Cruised for 9 years on a Morgan 34 with almost no problems, so it gets my vote! You shuld only vote for boats you have personal knowledge of. Skookum 47' thru 70' , Ed Monk Sr. design. For blue water cruising. Solid built, good seaboats, smooth through the water. I'd vote for the V-40/42. They have proven time and again that they can do it all. George Day, editor and publisher of BLUE WATER SAILING, said there are more Tayana 37's cruising the world than any other class of boat. There are generous, very smart sailors here who will hopefully reply to you but in the mean time I can tell you, we have had 2 Tayanas now(lost the 1st one in Hurr Francis). We are learning so our sailing experience is limited but I did much research before buying and have found for our price range, safety/stability/design qualilies, Tayana fit. We have replaced rigging, and look closely at chainplates. Our newest aquisition has had the black iron tanks replaced. I can say that in every ICW marina we have been at (GA to FL only) so many people come up and ask, "is that a Tayana 37", and tell us great stories about having owned one or sailed on one. There is an active Tayana Owners Group at SailNet, here are some links for you. http://list.sailnet.net/read/?forum=tayana http://my.boatus.com/forum/default.asp Nancy This is going to be a tough call for me. I went to look at a valiant and it was beautiful and plenty of sailboat for me. On the other hand It was -not- plenty of “apartment in the islands” on the inside. I started out long ago daydreaming about owning the big charter boat. I have owned rental property and still do. One thing I have decided is I would like to avoid other people renting my boat !!! I have also read a couple of Hal Roth books
and he has just about sold me on the smaller boat. And yes to him a Valiant 40 is a big boat------also bigger than anything I have Skipper 'd. I am just having trouble letting go of the 30 year daydream of the bigger boat. For the Bahamas might I also suggest a Vagabond Westwind. We draw 4'11" and most boats come with a self tending staysail. I've never sailed on the other boats, but I fell in love with my Hylas 47. The only possible drawback to it compared to the others is in docking. Docking a big boat can be scary. I'm finally comfortable docking it with my wife, but I would probably never leave the marina if I was singlehanding. Yesterday, a fellow with a Carver 57 brought his boat into the marina in about 20 knots of wind and crashed into several other boats, not to mention a concrete piling, before abandoning the attempt to get the boat into his slip. There was a lot of angry talk on the docks after that BECAUSE THE CARVER 57 IS HIS FIRST BOAT, and he can't handle it. I don't mean this to sound abrasive, but just because you can afford a 47 footer doesn't mean you can handle one. I don't have any trouble putting my 46 footer in its slip, but that's because I learned over a course of three decades on a series of gradually larger keelboats: a 22', then a 30', then a 37', then a 41' (that I lived aboard and cruised for eight years,) then finally a 46 footer. If you have any question whatsoever about whether you can dock the 47' boat, then please do the rest of us the favor of not buying it. You'll find out here in the sailing community that we have absolute respect for the fellow in the Santana 22 teaching himself how to sail, but no respect at all for the fellow trying to accomplish the same thing in a Hylas 47. This goes doubly if you're trying to teach yourself the art of singlehanding. I am sorry, but I have to violently disagree with all this crud about handling a 47 ft boat. boat handling is a skill that improves with experience, but the really important thing is the experience. two weeks constant boat handling in confined waters with a teacher who knows what they are doing should solve the problem. Where a larger boat becomes a problem is if the marina is too small for the size. The other major problem is pride. I know I can do it, I don't have to ask for help .....crunch. A bent boat shatters pride far more than asking for help. A real sailor knows when he needs help and asks for it in sufficient time, and is very gratefull to those who assist. Even the best can still get it wrong, thus if you are not sure about the wind/tide effect in a berth, and the ability to get into that berth, ask for help, or ask for an easier berth.
I spoke with the owner of the new Carver 57 this morning, right after the marina notified him that he'd best start looking for a new slip, either that or hire a captain to run the boat. It turns out that the poor fellow had hired an instructor with a hundred-ton ticket to spend a few weekends teaching him how to dock the boat. Additionally, he'd been assured by the dealer that if he purchased both bow and stern thrusters that he'd have no trouble docking it. In my previous yacht club a fellow who'd done well during the dot-com boom ordered his first-ever boat--a new Swan 56--and then joined the club, and then started working toward ASA keelboat certifications. He discovered, to his horror once the boat finally arrived, that he couldn't really take it anywhere without professional "crew." After a couple short years he sold the boat, quit the club, and turned to other pursuits. Anyone who has done any amount of cruising has watched as newbies with a fresh ASA bareboat certification display a complete lack of knowledge about how and where to anchor. Whose fault is this? These folks were sold a bill of goods that said if you take all the lessons (costing thousands of dollars) and pass all the tests you'll be able to charter bareboats anywhere in the world and do the cruising thing. And all too many of them end up chartering boats too large for their skill sets where all they can do is motor from one anchorage to another and hope that they can find a real cruiser at the next anchorage and anchor close to him. No. Sorry. Hylas makes a great boat, but a Hylas 47 makes for a lousy starter boat. No. Sorry. Hylas makes a great boat, but a Hylas 47 makes for a lousy starter boat.
I'm glad I didn't listen to that advice! But I do recommend taking as many classes as you can. Learn to drive rental boats from professional instructors before you think of buying your own. Start small and then work your way up. Then once you have purchased your own (after test sailing it) have someone who knows how to drive yours well, AND who knows how to teach, teach you to drive it. There is no
reason to be afraid of a boat just because it's big, but a healthy respect and knowing your limitations will save you lots of heartache. The problem is that you won't know your limitations until you learn them firsthand! IMHO docking is the least of your concerns. The problem is that the forces increase geometrically with larger sails, etc. So do the costs. If you are singlehanding, what do you need, really? A good seaberth, a convenient head and galley and a well organized deck with good winches, You need a seaworthy boat that balances well with self steering and a reliable engline. You need radar with a proximity alarm. You could find these attributes in many boats under 30 feet. Why so big? Is it because the admiral wants a floating condo that also happens to be single-handable?
don't get overly fixated on size. In other words. do I want light.htm __________________ John. IMO. the most profound. both for seakindliness and better ability to hold and ferry cruising stores. To my way of thinking the first question is.com/pdf/tenBiggerboat. and the most personal. here is a statement by Evans that if doing it again he would aim for a 42 foot boat.com/boats. You can have two boats of similar size but vastly different displacements. In fact. rather than a boat that gets you into trouble. how dependent on mechanical aids do I wish to be? Perhaps that is the real first question in the analysis. the sail area question begs the first order question. is not the size of the boat but her displacement. and they will require quite a bit of a different amount of work to make them go. http://bethandevans. sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design. if indirectly. What's most critical. Go with the 40 and you will be able . I recognize most people will differ with me here. if not sailing high latitudes. And also. or heavy displacment? Once those questions have been answered. I think the light D/L ratios that the Dashews advocate works for boats over 45'. In any case. Displacement determines sail area for the most part. My wife and I cruise very happily for months at a time on our Sceptre 36. the starting place for me is sail area and sail plan. what's the maximum sail area I want to work (and what kind of sail plan for that sail area)? Next. the size of the boat has already been determined. The size of each will determine your dependence on mechanical aids. springing off the point that Larry made. Easy to handle etc. http://bethandevans. But for my size boats. One final comment. keep displacement in mind. around 35'. medium. I think moderate to heavy displacement works better for true cruising. not boat size.I would read very carefully this article by some well known world cruisers about their jump from 37 to 47 feet.pdf I would pay particular attention to the line about when starting out you need a boat that gets you out of trouble. to a degree. ground tackle. I charter 50's in the Caribbean but have several crew to run it. Of course. The extra amount of muscle power to handle a 50 over a 36 is immense.
I just chartered the possible next boat. or entertaining. a ketch or yawl would be a good idea for single handing. I never put myself in a situation if I'm even the least bit uncertain about the outcome. the step from 3800 lbs to 13000 lbs was huge when docking. Engine or no engine. Preparation is also a keyword. but that my Valiant would probably have been very uncomfortable. Ofcaurse there are downsides when docking and when maintaining but it's worth it. it's not anymore and the marinas haven't grown as the boats have. Sometimes we spend an hour or two docking or undocking. Its perfect for that. powered primary winches. I have never ever (knock on wood) damaged anyone elses property. 15 years ago 32 ft was considered a large boat. With bowsprit and davits she's close to 50 ft. Sailing the Transworld 41 is a joy and it never occured to me that she might be too much to handle at sea. Marinas around here are relatively tight. I guess I would second what Rex says. which was a challenge in itself. or I might go for a different marina than I would have preferred. so planning your moves is important and the experience to anticipate upcoming situations and take preventive actions is also very important. Being a ketch. Smaller sail are easier to handle and the two masts give you a vast range of different options for different winds. Barth to Antigua to try and make up my mind. with lots of time. I've always liked heavy displacement boats. so the next boat was a 31 ft double ender with a displacement of 6000kg (13000 lb).to handle it and not exhaust yourself rather than having fun or waiting for crew all the time. that there are plenty of situations I wouldn't be able to get out of without damage and I only hope that I'll never end up in one. I know though. But now that I have basically retired. I would like to take the boat to Mexico. or my own and the trick is LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. with 49 feet of waterline and deliberately sailed upwind from St. but keep thinking of that Baja Bash home to San Diego. I am agonizing over moving up in size. My take away was that it was uncomfortable. I would pine for the simplicity of my 37. and roller mainsail furling the promise of short handed sailing is there. There's a huuuuuuuge difference docking 13000 lbs and 30000 lbs and previous experience come in handy.000 lbs. This boat is probably as big as we'll ever go and she is really all we want. After owning her for two years I had no problems docking or undocking single handed. The prospect of 750 miles into seas and wind makes me wonder what another 15 feet of waterline would mean in terms of comfort and speed. We'd never use the extra space in a bigger boat unless we end up having lots and lots of kids . and I am afraid I would be giving up alot of that with a bigger boat. Great singlehander and couple boat. I have been coastal sailing my Valiant Esprit 37 for 25 years in Southern California. That ofcaurse means that I can't always have the spot I wuld have liked. each sail is relatively small and I easily sail her alone. Now we've moved up to 41 ft and almost 30. But I have this nagging feeling that whenever I wasn't pounding to weather. a Beneteau 57. a Transworld 41 (CC version of CT 41). And that with the bow thruster. The old 24-footer lacked an engine altogether. I guess for me sailing is about freedom. If you go large.
I second that sentiment Dockhead. I heard a story about a guy. but the fact that he just didn't get enough instruction or practice before trying it on his own. saying he had had the time of his life. than a smaller boat with nonpowered winches and regular non-furling mainsail. That guy in the Carver 57 would have been smashing up other boats in any kind of boat -. It will have a powerful linear-drive autopilot and will track straighter than a smaller boat. in my opinion. is perfectly normal for a person with Road Runner's experience. with varying levels of skill and experience. Just be sure to get enough practice. spent about a million bucks on a brand new Oyster 485. To me a 50' boat is small. . so it will behave better on autopilot while you mess with the sail trim.Consider the size you want and think you need. He died soon after. but a feeling of "there but for the grace of God go I". and instruction.across the Atlantic.don't listen to the nay-sayers.. which will make short work of handling the sail area.the problem was not the size. A lot of people here have expressed a lot of snobbery about their seamanship skills. The right reaction to his misadventures is really not disdain. which means it will be easier to dock than a 36 footer without one. and probably easier. and discouraged you from buying a boat they might like to have themselves but can't afford. which makes reefing from the cockpit a cinch you can do alone. but because that Swans of that era were just not set up to sail short-handed. and set out to sea -alone.. cruised the Caribbean . A Hylas 47 is not a Swan 56. He sold his business. and it may mislead you in making your decision. and certainly requires some knowledge concerning the effect of wind and windage. Sorry to say that. but there's definitely an element of that in the discussion. "Easier" is relative. Lots of kids? Guests and friends joining you? Lots to consider. The ofcaurse it depends on how you plan on using her. It will likely have in-mast furling mainsail. like for example a Hylas 47. It will have a bow thruster. who found out he had cancer at about age 50. some sailors with vast experience. A well laid out 40 ft boat would probably suit a couple (definately a solo sailor) better than a 47 ft boat. It will be no harder to single hand. After a little bit of coastal sailing to get a feel for it. He had no serious problems or misadventures. It will be more stable and secure in heavy weather than a smaller boat.alone -. Not so much because of the size. he sailed his boat -. and all the way up to Alaska. docking is a skill which requires a lot of practice on any boat. in my opinion. It will have powered winches. told with affection by some friends in England. He had never even been on a sailboat before. Buy whatever you like. before returning to England. We are ALL amateurs here. took her through the Panama Canal. Do what suits you. So Road Runner -. and can afford. A modern cruising boat in the 45 to 50 foot range. than a smaller boat. that's all.
and maybe will be even easier. They are good boats built on a production line to force the prices down. On a return to Australia 15% tax needs to be paid. You would spend less.My point is he'll do just fine on a boat like a Hylas 47.. which will be no harder to dock or single hand than something in the 30-odd foot range. The costs over time in slip fees.. But 47' for two people seems excessive to me. The general accepted way of buying a boat is waiting for the right one to come on the market in an area close by. especially the earlier Stevens. We wanted to take advantage of a disparity of economic times between USA and Australia to buy a boat saving the shipping cost to Australia. Further they are built with the consumer firmly in mind instead of the dictates of old . Purchasing Sea Life Our Experience of Buying Overseas. great bluewater boat. etc. etc. maintenance.? Yes. Kretschmer and others like them a lot. My question is: why such a big boat? 47' Hylas. and you guys shouldn't discourage him. have more $$ for gear and onboard comforts And have less of a hole over time. Then you can have a good look at it and go for a sail before making an offer. Beneteau has captured my eye at the Sydney Boat Show. Buying a boat over the internet and in a different culture is difficult and has high incidental expenses. What exactly are you planning on doing with her? Are you going sailing with your wife or is she just joining you in the marinas and local sails? How much comfort do you really need? How much entertaining on board are you doing? If you go bluewater later will you singlehand? Easy enough in light air but what about when it gets rough? IMHO I'd go for something smaller with a really nice cabin. maybe a pulman fore cabin or a fuller aft cabin than the Valiant 40. To make it easier I wanted to look at one specific manufacturer and just a couple of models that should be in my price range. will be huge compared to a smaller boat. There are so many boats you can get in the 38-42 range with your budget. We can then cruise off into the sunset.
USA brokers require the 10% deposit to be given to the broker at the time of the offer. One was absolutely shocking and one beautifully kept by a seaman with just 300 hours on the engine. 3 very nice 361's in the USA would not negotiate to a similar price as a same year excharter 393. I had been emailing him and on his email list for a year and had made a few calls to him to get to know him. either an ex-charter boat. Most Australians will find this ridiculous and anyway couldn't comply easily. I wanted a boat less than 10 years old and not in need of more than a good clean and polish.e. In Ft Lauderdale. We knew we had to build a personal rapport with a ex-charter broker and still not make decisions sight unseen. Now I wanted to meet him in Fort Lauderdale to find out if there was a . Our price range would include the Beneteau 36 footer 361. The 361's would have been $7. However I found the prices expected for lightly used boats far above the market value and a strong reticence to negotiating. Some shiver at the thought of an ex-charter boat and are much in preference of a boat with only 200 or 300 hours on the clock. I am not interested in 30 year old boats that need refitting. This has given them deep exposure to the charter market as well as a clearly defined resale value both in Australia and overseas. Although most brokers started by insisting on it I just made the offers without deposits. Their offer forms were long and complicated and are used to try and stop purchasers making too many offers on too many boats thus driving a wedge into the price structure. When you need to cruise across oceans the decision is a no brainer. The price for each was the same. As we just spent one full year buying our house we know the professional photos bare little resemblance to real life. South Carolina. We weren't interested in the crook one and the nice one wouldn't negotiate. Another in Annapolis wouldn't negotiate so it was off to Florida to the boat haven of Fort Lauderdale. or a never chartered one. USA to see two 361's at the same price.000 more than the 393. Using the internet to search for boats is exactly the same as looking at houses on the net. broker Peter Wiersema of Moorings Brokerage deals with Sunsail and Moorings ex-charter boats over a vast area including the Caribbean and Pacific. and perhaps an ex-charter 393. On March 4th we flew into Charleston. The search area: USA and Caribbean. you can sell them easily if the offered price is at the market price. During this time in the USA we saw a number of brokers and boats and made offers on 4 yachts. Ex-charter boats are in a different price bracket and have realistic owners.fashioned 'salts'. Their popular status gives that resale market liquidity i.
Peter Wiersema of Moorings Brokerage Peter Wiersema's name had popped up on Cruisers Forum positively.trust level and see an example ex-charter Beneteau. Moorings Brokerage in the Caribbean works like this: People who want an investment buy a brand new Beneteau that Moorings and Sunsail have the factory slightly modify for charter. So our date was going to be after the Marine Surveyor had tickled the ribs of the 393. The boat sales all happen at the end of the charter year in June and July i. We were expecting an expensive wait for 3 or 4 months. a clear knowledge of what a charterer can do to a boat! Stewart Knaggs. We could afford the 393 if we didnt have to pay accommodation for 3 or 4 months. have been earmarked for sale up to one year before. but you can still pull out of the deal up to a specified date. John Sinke the Base Manager of Sunsail Saint Maarten and Nick the Technical Manager released the boat to us and we sailed out of Oyster Pond on April 11th. Marine Surveyors have one brilliant thing when it comes to Beneteaus: Detailed Knowledge and an intimate understanding of each model as well as the build process and design. further. We started by going to St Maarten to see two boats a 361 and a 393. would say things like: "If a Beneteau has hit the rocks you will see it here. The offer is accepted and the deposit actually made. Surveyor. sell it. however. The 393 was a fine boat.e. The boat is then brought from France and goes into their charter fleets for a few years. during the hurricane season. Also we have noticed a problem with the forward fresh water tank and have reported it to the broker as it was a Survey matter. different culture. See all the negotiational permutations? The other side of the world is a weird place. purchase is daunting! Finding people who you trust makes it easier. As at 27th April we are still waiting for the Australian Shipping Registration to come through. its nothing compared to flying around the Caribbean seeing multiple yachts. Dealing on an overseas. The trust here was getting vital as boats must be seen personally and while driving around the USA is coslty with accommodation. The owner can then sail his boat away. minor items but Peter said they would be fixed prior to closing. The boats. There were. or here. of course. Peter showed us an example boat that was a 'proof of concept'. Our idea was to go sit on the islands and wait for a good ex-charter boat to become available. and importantly." Suffice to say We couldnt find any major problems. Peter Wiersema and John Sinke have conferred and we are taking the boat back to Oyster Pond and Sunsail will fix the . That forum also had a member who was a previous client and I was able to exchange some emails. or put it back out to charter with a second tier charter company.
We are happy that our boat has not been mistreated. Having said that we are enjoying personalising Sea Life and buffing the boat into As New condition. Sometime in the future that may happen.leak. sure it has some extra engine hours.Farr 37 . In conclusion: Yes. Look out also for S&S36 and S&S39 VICSAIL Given your stated price of approx.perhaps even a little bigger? CAN ANYONE RECOMMEND ALTERNATIVE SUITABLE BOATS? I think that we're planning to spend around $70 AUD.charterer prrof. Hello and thanks for reading my post.Farr 37 ( Jutson Upgrades) or Boat Sales Tasmania . but the engines are designed for a long life and are better used than idle. AUD$70k. Thanks and happy sailing. The yacht when bought is "Charter ready" with all systems functioning and serviced even the linen and shampoos are on board along with a galley full of utensils and a Nav table full of the small gadgets. we would love to have Beneteau build us a brand new yacht. I'm planning to buy a yacht in which to do some blue water cruising. But until then we feel we have been able to purchase a wonderful yacht that will safely cruise us 'Bluewater' around the world. i wondered whether there were other boats that I should consider . Remember Charter yachts are made with good systems that are not fragile . Just the sort of kit you need for a long cruise! The survey will determain if the boat has been on the rocks and also the broker will disclose any insurance claims. At the moment much of the literature is pointing towards an S&S 34 . including some major ocean crossings. Nothing wrong with S&S34. However.they're affordable (~$70k AUD) and are proven. you may want to keep your eyes open for some of the follwing: Farr 1104 VICSAIL Farr 37(IOR) eg Boat Sales Tasmania . Now try and get that sort of 'After Sales Service' on any normal second hand boat purchase! Buying an ex-charter yacht has its benifits.
The size of boat you select directly affects your cruising costs. Cost and Time Two of the most important points to remember when selecting a boat are size and cost. The boat you choose should be safe. endless repairs and a low resale price. scuba gear and . Obviously there isn't any one perfect boat for everyone.Boat Selection Before starting the boat selection process. Time spent offshore will quickly clarify your priorities for boat selection and equipment plus generally satisfies the prerequisite for obtaining offshore insurance for your future boat. On a 40‟ new or used boat. this can mean an additional $20. because the money used for purchasing a cruising boat often represents a substantial part of people's life savings. survey. Be patient. but also in cruising expenses once you're under way. complete the purchase transaction and possibly ship or deliver your new boat to a place convenient for outfitting. you'll want to recoup as much of your original purchase price as possible when it comes time to sell. consider a live-aboard cruising instruction course such as Offshore Sailing School‟s Fast Track to Cruising.000 just for essential equipment including additional sails. it is imperative to find out if you really like sailing and are comfortable living aboard. examine. This amount excludes optional equipment such as refrigeration. As many coastal sailors do not enjoy oceans passages complete an offshore passage to ensure you do. electronics. Selecting a cruising boat is the most important decision in preparing for an offshore voyage and often is a pivotal point in the changing of dreams from "Let's take off and go cruising some time”. safety gear and tender. Research boat types that suit your budget and cruising plans.000 to $50. liferaft. Size. outboard motors. I mention resale price now. ground tackle. If you make a poor choice you may be plagued with structural problems. The process of selecting and purchasing a boat for extended cruising usually takes a minimum of six to 12 months. Few people realize that outfitting a stock new boat for long distance cruising can easily take 30% to 50% more than the initial purchase price. You'll need to locate. into the reality of "Let's get outfitted and go". and ideally capable of fast passages while proving to be a good investment If your plans are only for coastal cruising you can consider a winder range of suitable boats than those who are headed offshore and require a sturdier vessel. If you aren‟t yet an accomplished sailor. Although sailboats are rarely a "good" investment in monetary terms. not only in initial purchase and outfitting. slow uncomfortable passages. test sail. leaks. well built. ask questions and learn everything you can while keeping an open mind. comfortable.
When I started cruising the South Pacific in 1974 on a Vega 27. Seasickness or illness may incapacitate you or your partner. replacing rigging. Then see if there is enough money left for the expensive.000). Crew People cruising on larger boats may have to depend on finding pick‑up crew in different ports in order to safely manage their boat on ocean passages and to satisfy insurance requirements. non‑essential but "sure would be nice to have" equipment. Offshore cruising is now rarely an open-ended lifestyle choice. tanks. It's easy to find friends and family members excited about sailing with you when you first leave your homeport. Today we see people cruising faster on larger boats. particularly if the owners are new to sailing. It‟s easy and normal to overspend on the initial purchase of the boat. A better approach if you're working within a fixed budget is to spend less on the initial purchase by either purchasing a well‑built used boat or a smaller new boat. Safety dictates a boat with manageable-sized sails. As you get further away airfares become more expensive. The majority of boats cruising for a year or longer are sailed by couples. leaving one person to handle everything. spend more money on equipment that isn't essential and then run short of funds once you've completed your initial provisioning and have actually started cruising. Purchase the priority equipment first. there were many cruisers on shoestring budgets. Fatigue is the number one cause of short‑handed boats being lost on the rocks while making landfall. In general. it becomes expensive and time consuming coordinating the logistics of crew arrival and departure. then set aside money for an initial provisioning ($2. This may correspond with an increased budget of many cruisers and the development and improvement of sail‑handling systems including furling mainsails and electric winches. On a boat 20 years or older. time and energy required to maintain a 50‟ to 60‟ boat versus a 40‟ boat once you're "out there" cruising is significantly higher. You might also find that you may not be comfortable trusting your boat and life to people whom you don't know well. Crew difficulties are one of the most persistent and common problems on cruising boats. the median length of cruising boats has been increasing steadily. multi-year open-ended cruises on boats under 35‟. visiting many countries in a shorter time. You must be prepared to singlehand your boat. and a boat in the 35‟ to 45‟ size range generally works out best. The cost. engine and upgrading the electrical system can easily add an additional 50% to 100%. so it becomes essential that you are able to handle . but one that most people experience for one to two years before moving on to the next phase of their life. and funds for cruising (an average of $1000 to $2000 for a couple per month) for the period of time you want to cruise.autopilots. a totally dependable wind‑vane self‑steering system and a powerful autopilot.
These add cost and complexity. Example: if you purchase a 15 year old boat for $80. for example. Used Boat: Compromise is important in selecting the right used boat. electronics and epoxy bottom job using 1-2 years of potential cruising time in the process.your boat without help. you‟ll find a lineup of folks wanting to purchase it when you‟ve completed your cruise and you should recoup most (or all) of your initial investment. Custom Built: Having a boat custom or semi‑custom built always takes considerably more time and money than planned and there are nearly always “bugs” to work out that would no occur with a production boat. Purchasing Options 1. keep it in top condition while you‟re cruising. Some people use the justification that since they have rebuilt every system on their boat. . tanks. New Production Boat: Because of a shortage of quality 3-10 year old ocean-cruising boats. consider adding electric winches. Custom boats just don‟t make sense! 3. wiring. and that you realize your abilities and limitations. Chances are you may not find any boat in your price range that exactly meets all of your criteria so be prepared to be flexible and keep an open mind as you learn more about what makes a safe and comfortable offshore boat. probably worth around $90. spend $50. and the high cost and amount of time involved in upgrading a solid 10+-year-old boat. You may go into your boat search thinking that you absolutely must have a heavy displacement double-ender with a long bowsprit and a centerline queen berth.000. purchasing a quality new production boat is more attractive now than ever. rigging. a bowthruster and possibly a furling mainsail. sails.000 replacing engine. you end up with a 17 year old boat. they now can fix them in some distant port.000. If you are considering a boat over 42‟ and aren‟t as strong as you used to be. I personally would rather spend that time cruising than with my head down in the bilge fixing something that I overhauled a year earlier! If you buy the right boat. A better choice might be a new boat that costs more initially but returns closer to 100% of your investment. You will be out cruising 1-3 years earlier with fewer mechanical breakdowns. 2. Resale value on a custom boat is frequently not as high as on a well‑known quality production boat. but being able to easily handle your boat is important.
and personal priorities with the broker. 4. The easiest way to find a quality used boat is to locate a professional and knowledgeable broker who has offshore sailing experience and who will work with you to find a suitable boat. more expensive boats. let them know that in your initial discussion and don‟t expect their full attention until you are really ready to purchase. rather than hiring a surveyor recommended by the seller or yacht broker. Home Built: Home building makes the least sense unless you are an experienced boat builder and are not concerned about time and expenses. · On larger. Cruising equipment adds very little to the selling price of used boats. seriously consider flying the surveyor with you to inspect the boat. other than making sure that the boat you're considering is safe and a good investment for you. Survey · Have the boat carefully and thoroughly surveyed by a marine surveyor experienced in offshore boats. . are usually much more difficult to sell when you‟ve completed your cruise. sails and occasionally rigging. They frequently have a lower resale value than a comparable production boat. Marine insurance companies and banks can recommend surveyors whose opinions they trust. Most marine surveyors do not thoroughly cover these items in a typical survey. budget.com computer-listing network and various publications to locate appropriate boats on a regional and national basis. you may find a boat that has already been outfitted and cruised. Home‑built boats generally cost more than a well‑built used boat. Ask to see examples of previous surveys. saving you tens of thousands of dollars. Be honest and don‟t waste their time. many buyers will also pay for individual surveys of engines. Use Yachtworld. you may decide that these are not necessarily criteria that add to comfort or safety at sea. Spend time clearly communicating your purchase time frame. · If you consider purchasing a boat in a different part of the country and have a surveyor you trust. Some less knowledgeable or scrupulous brokers will try and sell you whatever boat is easiest.After educating yourself. electrical systems. If you need to first sell your house or won‟t be able to make a purchase for some time. It is best if you research and choose the surveyor. You want to hire a surveyor who has no vested interest in the transaction.
· Southern California has a very limited inventory of offshore capable cruising boats. Points to Remember when Considering Boats from Different Regions: · Florida boats tend to be less expensive than boats in other regions. If people can't sell their property. · Canadian inventory particularly in the Great Lakes area is worth looking at. money or interest and have parked the boat with a broker. The light air and generally moderate sea conditions and temperature mean that less-expensive and more lightly constructed coastal cruisers dominate the market. Brokers on both coasts are mentioning a real shortage of good ten-yearold or less cruising boats in the $60.Market Trends Used boat prices vary geographically and may be lowest in areas of the country experiencing economic downturn and weak real estate markets. · Pacific Northwest and San Francisco Bay Area generally has a fairly good inventory of offshore-capable boats. and we aren‟t hearing any tales of "stealing" good used cruising boats for 20% to 30% below asking or BUC Used Boat Guide prices.000 price range. · Annapolis metropolitan area has more quality offshore-capable boats for sale than any other area.000 to $200. In recent years have firmed up substantially nationally. This shortage will become more acute. low salt environment for six months each year will often be in much better condition than a fiveyear-old Florida boat. they are less likely to be able to afford to purchase and outfit a boat for extended cruising. Purchasing a Boat Overseas . · New England and the Great Lakes are excellent regions to shop for a cruising boat. A ten-year-old boat that has been dry stored in a low humidity. Frequently the owners have run out of time. The salt. When boat shopping in Florida. but the higher humidity and salt really take their toll. humidity and UV really takes it‟s toll on boats unattended in the tropics. returning home elsewhere. you‟ll find that many of the boats have been unattended and not maintained for some time.
French canals or New Zealand and aren't interested in the long passages. and $1000 to $2000 for decommissioning and recommissioning. Embassy will be able to provide you with temporary documentation papers if you're purchasing and cruising a boat in another country. there are always a considerable number of boats that have cruised there from Europe or NA that are now for sale as owners are ready to return home.000.S.. New Zealand and Australia have some quality cruising boats for sale. www. Boat Design and Construction . Prices of identical cruising boats are enough higher in Europe that many Europeans are purchasing boat on the US East Coast. sailboat with a beam of no more than 12‟ and a trailer height of under 14'. Boats with beam in an excess of 12‟ will require a pilot car at $1.S.yacht-transport.000 to $15. make sure to factor in all shipping and commissioning costs. depending how much of the work you do yourself. The approximate costs for shipping a 35‟ and 42‟.S. You'll find it much easier to sell a well‑known boat for a reasonable price. Shipping and Commissioning When trying to decide whether or not it is logical to purchase a boat out of your area. Any U. Dockwise Yacht Transport.com is an excellent alternative. is $12. If you're interested in cruising specific areas such as Scandinavia.00 per mile in some states. try and select a well‑known builder who has dealers in the States. purchasing a boat on location may be a good choice. Add approximately $200 for trucking insurance rider. Florida to New York or Los Angeles to Seattle: Annapolis to Seattle or Seattle to Florida: Wisconsin to Seattle: $2815 $3069 $6800 $7600 $4000 $4600 The cost of deck shipping a 35‟ boat from Europe or New Zealand to the U. few people in North America are familiar with these boats and they may be difficult to resell. However. the Med.The present currency exchange rates have made purchasing a boat overseas less attractive. If you're considering purchasing a boat overseas and plan to sail it back to the U. but as these are small run production boats.
Design If at all possible, contact the designer before purchasing. Relatively few boats were actually designed for ocean passage making. You will need to learn if the boat builder followed the designer's construction criteria. Some Taiwanese-built yachts advertised as being designed by Robert Perry or Doug Peterson may actually be pirated designs where the designer has not been paid a royalty and the builder may have tried to save money by reducing structural integrity. None of the Taiwan yards employing this practice were in business very long.
Builder If the yard is still in business it can be quite helpful for purchasing some parts and assemblies, but is by no means essential. If they are still in business, call and ask them about the boat you're considering. Have the hull number and date of manufacture ready. You may find that boats built by a yard that is still in business retain higher value than boats where the builder has gone out of business. As an example, friends of mine had a Southern Cross 35 built for them by Ryder Yachts in 1985. After a successful Pacific circumnavigation and the arrival of two lovely daughters, they decided to move up to a Morris 46. They related that the Morris 36 that they were considering when they ordered the Southern Cross then cost $20,000 more but is now worth approximately $160,000 compared to a value of $75,000 for the Southern Cross today. Morris is still in business building excellent boats; Southern Cross went under not long after my friend‟s boat was completed. If you‟re considering purchasing a new boat, check the financial condition of the company. Some builders are just barely staying in business and may use your deposit money to complete another person‟s boat. This only works as long as the deposits are coming in!
Sailing Performance You‟ll sure appreciate a design that offers good sailing performance and ease of handling the more miles you sail. Few potential cruisers think of passage-making speed as important criteria in choosing an ocean cruising boat. After considerable years and miles of ocean cruising, it is now high on my personal list of priorities. The shorter the passages, the less exposure you have to heavy weather conditions. A boat with good sailing performance requires less
motoring and fuel, is faster, more responsive and fun to sail in the light to moderate wind conditions so common worldwide. Windward sailing performance is nearly as important as passage-making speed. On the other extreme, a very modern, light displacement boat with a flat entry may tend to pound when sailing to windward and may lack directional stability when sailing downwind with large following seas. The ability to sail off a lee shore in an emergency is dependent on windward performance. Negative Design Aspects to be Avoided Bowsprits longer than 24” often prove to be a liability when anchoring, changing headsails or maneuvering in close quarters. Low freeboard may indicate a design that will ship a lot of spray and water on ocean passages. Excessive freeboard may cause poor windward performance and a tendency to "sail" back and forth at anchor. A small amount of weather helm as the wind increases is desirable, but an excessive amount that cannot be decreased by sail trim or rig tuning may mean that a boat will be difficult to steer by hand, windvane or autopilot. If the design is excessively tender, you'll have to get used to living, cooking, navigating and sleeping at 25 to 30 degrees angle of heel every time you are sailing to windward, something you may find fatiguing. A comfortable motion at sea is very important. A vessel with a short waterline and long, graceful overhangs often tends to hobbyhorse or pitch when to sailing to windward making upwind passages uncomfortable and difficult to impossible. Another drawback is frequently a lack directional stability when sailing downwind in a large following sea.
A Comfortable Home This is just as important as each of the above points, because a boat may have the best sailing characteristics in the world, but if your partner views it as a deep, dark, damp, unattractive place to live, you'll either be singlehanding or giving up your cruising dreams. Remember most cruisers are at sea less than a quarter of the time, so comfort at anchor is also very important.
Space for the additional sails, tankage, food, lines, spare parts, medical and safety supplies required for extensive cruising is important. On some boats valuable storage space under the settees and berths is filled with tankage that could have been designed under the cabin sole.
Weight Carrying Capacity A purpose-designed cruising boat will be able to carry the additional weight of three anchors, a windlass and several hundred pounds of chain, as well as additional water (8 lbs. per gallon) and fuel (6 lbs. per gallon), a liferaft, dinghy and outboard. You'll be adding several thousand pounds of equipment, so if the boat you're considering is already on her waterline before you start loading cruising gear you may end up several inches below the designed waterline. On some designs this may be a dangerous problem. Boats that handle the weight the best are not real narrow at the waterline beam and have transom sterns without excessive overhangs.
Mulithull vs Monohull Multihulls advantages include very little heeling or rolling and tremendous interior volume and deck space, making them very attractive for sailing, living aboard and chartering in tropical climes. Another distinct advantage is that multihulls don't sink if holed, unlike ballasted monohulls. Their disadvantages for offshore cruising are that they are more weight-sensitive to overloading; they may be uncomfortable going upwind into a head sea and under extremely rare instances they can capsize. As few marinas worldwide were designed for the width of multis, moorage in some places may be difficult to find. Having said this, multi-hulls are ever increasing in popularity and make the most sense for warm-water cruising areas.
Underbody Design In the past, cruisers assumed a full-keel design with attached rudder was optimum for ocean voyaging. I have cruised on four different modern full-keel boats, plus on a boat with a longish keel and separate full-skeg and rudder. Our present boat has a partial skeg and for me the trade off of less protection is worth the ease of steering and added maneuverability.
Types of Underbodies 1. Skeg Protected Rudder, detached from the keel is well suited for long distance cruising. The skeg protects the rudder to some degree, and may increase directional stability. Examples of this type of design: Valiants, Pacific Seacraft 34, 37, 40, 44. There
This type of rudder generally has three bearings. 46 and the Frers designed Hallberg-Rassys providing some protection from logs and debris and a third rudder bearing and more strength than a spade rudder. with attached rudder and moderate displacement is another good choice for cruising in isolated areas where groundings or scrapes are common and the nearest shipyard may be thousands of miles away. Endurance 35. Examples include Morris 44. Modern Cutaway Full Keel. It is almost like power steering and means that not only hand steering.are many suitable. 3. but also steering under autopilot or windvane is much easier and that there is much less loading on the steering system. making it sturdier than a free-standing rudder which often has only two bearings. Having the rudder mounted slightly above and protected by the full length of the keel and the propeller enclosed in an aperture offer the best protection against damage from collision with submerged or floating objects. Valiant 42 Hallberg-Rassy 43 2. Careening or hauling out in primitive boatyards is easy with this type of design. The downside is that the top of the rudder balance area is prone to catching lines and weed. The cutaway forefoot is a faster. Nicholson 31. Cape Dory. Freya 39. Examples include: Island Packet. Partial-Skeg Rudders can be semi-balanced which is like having power steering. Island Packet 350 . Having the skeg extend only partway down the rudder means that the rudder is semi-balanced. well-built boats of this design type and they are a popular choice for long distance ocean cruising. more maneuverable design that will have fewer tendencies to trip or broach when running under storm conditions than a traditional Tahiti ketch type of full keel boat. Mason. This greatly reduces the amount of effort required to steer the boat.
There are several very successful cruising designs that have a longer. 5. After 40 years these earliest production fiberglass boats are still going strong. Deerfoots. Fiberglass is the least maintenance-intensive material for cruising boats. If your cruise plans involve high latitude sailing or gunkholing in remote areas. A knowledgeable surveyor will be an excellent . Niagara 31. Pearson Vanguards. which can be very expensive. Fin Keel/Spade Rudder is the fastest and most maneuverable design for racing and is the easiest and least expensive underbody to build. Remember that there is not one design or style of cruising that suits everyone. yacht design has made some great advances in the past 40 years. Some builders have a history of serious osmotic blister problems. more easily handled sail plans without resorting to bowsprits and boomkins. and smaller. Hull Construction Material 1. Sundeer. high-aspect keel) and strong rudderstocks. high aspect keel may exhibit a lack of steering directional stability when ocean swells are present. more comfortable passages. but construction quality varies greatly from one builder to the next. However. Hull thickness doesn‟t necessarily translate into strength. Heavy Displacement Full-Keeled Double-Enders based on Tahiti ketch or Norwegian lifeboat lines used to be a nearly automatic choice for long distance voyaging. The majority of fiberglass boats were never designed or built for extended ocean sailing and may eventually start falling apart if pressed into this type of service. you will need to be more cautious with this type of design. substantially supported keel (not a thin. and you may choose to take advantage of these improvements which make for faster. A thick hull with a high resin to glass ratio may actually be more brittle than a thinner hull where the resin has been carefully squeegeed out.4. The unprotected spade rudder is vulnerable to being damaged by groundings or hard impact with objects. In some cases blistering may be serious enough to require removal and replacement of part of the hull laminate. Tritons and Alberg 35's are examples of very well built. reasonably priced earliest production fiberglass boats. 42 and Cal 40. Some designs featuring a deep. there are plenty of folks happily cruising on their Westsail 32s and Hans Christians content that they have the best design for their cruising lifestyle. Sabre 38 Having said that. Some examples of this type of design appropriate for offshore voyaging are Sabre. 35. The other extreme are designs that are so heavily built and overweight and do not have the sailing performance that makes for fast and comfortable passages.
Read Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats by Henry C. Foam-coring provides excellent insulation above the waterline but there can be problems with water absorption if coring is used below the waterline. Mustin. Aluminum boats are generally lighter and faster than steel boats. Westsail 32 If the hull is balsa-cored and the core material becomes saturated because of improperly installed thru-hulls. . have less impact resistance and may be slightly more difficult to have repaired in remote shipyards. Quality aluminum builders include Ovni and Garcia in France and Kanter in Ontario. BC (an excellent yard). BC. Aluminum suffers from electrolysis more severely than steel. they are strong and practical.resource and may recommend looking for a different boat if the blisters are deep and extensive. or if the boat has "gone on the beach" you may want to look at a different boat because of the cost of repairs and potential for future problems. and although you may not find their concrete-colored oxidized aluminum hulls attractive. Steel is an excellent boatbuilding material. Brewer-designed Goderich 35. requiring an expensive repainting job if you want a perfectly fair and shiny hull. structure. modern steel cruising boats are the Waterline Yachts built in Sidney. 1994 for a clear and concise view of hull and deck design. Kanter Yachts. if you're cruising on an aluminum boat you'll need to be very careful when moored in electrically "hot" marinas. they are not particularly fast or attractive to many people‟s tastes. Although strong and stiff. Some attractive. Many of the steel boats on the North American market are owner-built hard-chine designs. Access to every part of the interior of the hull makes checking for corrosion and painting much easier. 3. deck and fittings is an advantage over other materials. and the Amazon 37 and 44 which were built in Vancouver. The impact resistance and total watertightness of the hull. 37 and 41 built in Ontario. A poorly-built steel boat will have places on the inside of the hull that will trap water and rust through from the inside out. International Marine. and is frequently the choice of sailors who have done extensive offshore cruising. There are hundreds of unpainted French aluminum boats cruising the world. and condition 2. With sandblasting and the new epoxy coatings. although it still requires more time and cost to maintain than a fiberglass boat. steel takes less time to maintain than it used to. Painted aluminum boats often tend to develop paint blisters after four to five years of serious cruising.
and keel loading must be spread out through the floor system. · Another option is internal lead ballast that is lowered into the keel cavity and then heavily fiberglassed over. is difficult to finance. Read Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats for more details. Having said this. Keels Most cruising boats run aground at one time or another. Internal lead ballast eliminates some potential problems with keel attachment. insure or repair. I have met two cement cruising boats that have completed two and three circumnavigations respectively. Perhaps because there are so many potential sources of problems on wooden boats in the tropics we see fewer of them long distance cruising each year. It may be difficult to find long-distance offshore insurance for traditionally built wooden cruising boats. Ferrocement is the only material that has no advantages other than inexpensive construction materials. Wood boats often offer a lower purchase price. and has the lowest impact resistance of any material. . whether or not it takes more care and maintenance. 5. Some keel designs are better suited to withstanding a hard grounding without damage. resulting in a boat that heels more quickly and has less room for tankage in the keel. a well-built wooden boat could be a reasonable choice. It is the most labor-intensive material to build with. but check closely during survey for any voids or water penetration in the keel area between the ballast and fiberglass. Cast iron or mixtures of iron and cement are less desirable ballast materials. If you have a limited budget.4. The best areas to find modern cold-molded boats are in the Northwest. · A longer keel with external lead ballast attached to a substantial stub that is an integral part of the hull absorbs groundings well. New England and New Zealand. although the cost and time involved in keeping them in good shape is more than with other materials. There is the special warmth and appeal of wood that some people find irresistible. and sometimes at speed. stronger and often faster than traditionally built boats and have a better chance of being insurable for ocean cruising. and don't mind the additional work. keel bolts attaching the keel to the hull must be accessible. Modern wood epoxy saturation (WEST System) technique produces boats that are lighter. When external ballast is used.
and repairs may be extensive and expensive. Deck Construction The deck surface must provide adequate non-skid without being overly abrasive on bare knees. but the increased complexity and lowered stability are drawbacks. Check with any marine surveyor to verify this and avoid these boats. genoa tracks. insulated decks will reduce condensation and moisture. · Wing keels have a shape similar to a Bruce anchor and can be very difficult to refloat when run aground. Many of the less-expensive Taiwan builders of the „70‟s and „80‟s used random bits of plywood as deck coring material. Teak decks look great at the boat show. High aspect deep and short fin keels (in a fore and aft measurement) are best suited for racing boats. If teak decking was laid over plywood there can be serious problems once the boat is over approximately 8-12 years old. When water penetrates this core material. you may end up with the core material becoming saturated and many small deck leaks where the screws are. Running hard agro can result in damage to the area where the trailing edge of the keel meets the hull and can cause leaks around the keel bolts. Dependable furling headsails and mainsails have meant that cruising couples are able to easily . repairs are often expensive and very time consuming. cleats and other deck fittings are placed. with filler between the wood scraps. If the boat has foam-cored decks. The loading on the keel when attempting to kedge or be towed off is enormous because of the extra surface area of the wing. the marine surveyor will check all horizontal surfaces carefully for voids or delaminating by tapping with a small hammer. but on older boats improperly laid decks will present additional leak potential and maintenance. Rigs The majority of long distance cruisers are choosing sloop or cutter rigs. If you plan on living aboard or cruising in non-tropical areas.Centerboards and lifting keels are an option if your plans include more coastal cruising than ocean voyaging. water will penetrate the balsa sooner or later. I would recommend having a surveyor look very carefully at any boat older than eight years with balsa-cored decks. Unless the core has been eliminated in favor of a solid laminate where stanchion bases. If the plywood core material is not marine grade or if insufficient bedding compound used.
This a mechanical clamp joint is relying on the bond of a sealant adhesive (3M 5200 is often used) to stop leaks. but after seven years and 70.handle cutter or sloop-rigged boats in the 40‟ to 50‟ range. I used to think that I would not like a ketch rig. Two Methods of Solving Caprail Leaks · Remove the teak cap rail or aluminum extruded toerail and clean and re-bed each bolt. A more trouble-free hull to deck joint utilizes substantial fiberglass bonding on the interior of the joint. gluing bulkheads in instead. I don't have any hard and fast rules that apply to my choice of rig. Hull to Deck Joint There are several methods of attaching the hull and deck of fiberglass boats. bulkheads and interior wooden cabinetry . On a fiberglass boat they need to be substantially glassed to the hull on both sides and to the deck with multiple layers of tape. Many cruisers are adding a removable inner forestay on a sloop on which they can set a storm staysail once they have furled or dropped their working headsail. Due to the working of the boat and the different climatic conditions the toerail and hull expand. I changed my mind.000 miles on my previous boat that was ketch-rigged. but once their boats have made several ocean passages. Bulkhead Attachment Bulkheads must be securely attached to the hull. and drip on the inside of your lockers. eliminating mechanical fasteners and leaks. totally sealing it and strengthening the area at the same time. allowing water to follow the bolt or screw threads down. After eight to 12 years and several thousand miles of ocean sailing the sealant/adhesive loses some of its elasticity. · Radius the inside of the joint with epoxy and microballoons and then lay several layers of fiberglass tape over the inside of the joint. contract and flex at different rates eventually weakening the bond. I appreciated the flexibility of the rig and the ability to drop half the total sail area (the mainsail) in less than a minute without having to resort to a furling mainsail. High production builders skimp on this. Amel of France is one of the few yards presently building ketches. The most common method utilizes bolts or screws protruding through on the inside of the hull to the deck joint.
upper and aft shrouds provides more stability for the mast and reduces the chance of deck loading distortion. External chainplates (fastened to the outside of the hull) look salty but have a much higher leak potential and restrict jib sheeting angles. lower production builders. Chainplate Load Transmission The loading from chain plates must be evenly transmitted to bulkheads and structural members below deck to avoid lifting or distorting the deck. Internal stiffening systems (grid floor systems.frequently come unbonded from the hull. but only if proper structural members transmit the load to the keel. . making equipment installation and leak stopping difficult. inspect for corrosion at the base of the mast. With keel stepped masts. Steering System and Position Some sailors prefer tillers on boats under 35‟ as there is less to go wrong and installing most windvane steering systems is less complicated than with wheel steering. Access to hull and deck areas is generally restricted when fiberglass liners and pans are used in construction. If the interior woodwork is just glued or lightly attached to a hull liner pan or to the hull. but this presents a huge disadvantage when easing the main out for downwind sailing. but you won‟t find them on top-end ocean cruising designs. Swept-back spreaders are not really appropriate on an ocean cruising boat. This is one of the reasons for the large price difference between high-volume mass-produced French and German yards and higher quality. hull liners are substantially less expensive than “stickbuilt” interiors. Otherwise deflection and possibly delaminating under the mast occur. Check the mast for trueness. Mast Support System Deck stepped masts work well. and/or full-length and transverse glass over foam (not wooden) stringers) contribute greatly to the stiffness and rigidity of a boat. From a manufacturing standpoint. messy and expensive. it‟s not uncommon to discover it breaking loose after a few thousand miles of ocean sailing. involving grinding and fiberglassing in some difficult to reach areas. Chainplates must be easily removable as crevice corrosion. particularly in warm climates can be a serious problem. Separate chainplates for forward. allowing the hull to flex more than it should. Swept-back spreaders mean a less expensive installation for the builder and a tighter sheeting angle for the headsail. The repair is complicated.
hardto-replace lazarette storage area and buoyancy aft must be taken into consideration. but allows easy access when moored stern-to a dock or wall. Transoms The ideal stern for a cruising boat includes a built-in swim step on a slightly reversed transom stern. Center Cockpit Nigel Calder makes a clear argument as to why he prefers aft cockpit design. Points to Consider in an Engine: · How good is everyday access? Can the water pump be removed without dismantling the engine? . better engine access and less danger of the cockpit being filled from following breaking seas. If the wheel is mounted at the far aft end of the cockpit. Engine Being able to maintain at least six knots under power will get you in most passes and channels at the time of least current. resulting in this problem. Taswell. I can make a reasonable argument for either design. Many Taiwanesebuilt steering systems suffer from poor initial design. Some of the advantages I see to a center cockpit include more privacy. inferior bronze castings and rudders that aren't able to hold up to the stresses of ocean sailing. but the loss of valuable. Double enders may look salty. potentially unseaworthy design. Purists may say that this is excessive. The location of the steering position is also important. This is less of a problem on higher quality Taiwan boats like Norseman. A rule of thumb is two horsepower per thousand pounds of displacement for a sufficiently powered cruising sailboat. it may be very hard to design a dodger that will provide protection to the helmsperson without resorting to a long. a common situation in less developed cruising areas. Most double enders have a tendency to "squat" in the stern and hobbyhorse sailing to windward when loaded with cruising gear. hopefully the system was built by a reputable company like Edson or Lewmar/Whitlock where you‟re assured of quality components and that you‟ll always be able to spare parts if needed. This not only makes getting in and out of the water and dinghy easy. but personally prefer a center cockpit in boats over 40‟-42‟ as long as the cockpit isn‟t unduly high off the water.If the boat you‟re considering has wheel steering. Some designers try to maximize engine room and interior volume. but in my experience it has been an advantage to have sufficient power to deal with currents and the ability to motorsail to windward for short distances into steep chop when necessary. Mason and Little Harbor. Aft vs.
Realistically assess your needs in terms of size of boat and amount of equipment. Caterpillar. remember the KISS formula.5 knots and maximum range under power at 5 knots of 1. I thought the 25 hp diesel engine was excessive for a displacement of only 9. encountering strong currents and tidal rips and fierce catabatic winds daily. · Best manufactures for worldwide parts availability are Volvo. My present 48‟. · Examples of engines which may be difficult to obtain parts for are BMW. You‟ll want to hire a surveyor who has no vested interest in the transaction. from my experience. 38. Perkins. More complicated systems mean more money and maintenance. Isuzu. Yanmar. If you're outfitting and cruising on a budget. and a 1.500 lbs. and Cummins. other than making sure that the boat you‟re considering is safe and a good investment for you. Think moderate in terms of displacement and sail area.000 pounds and was powered with a 62 hp engine which proved very adequate in areas like Patagonia.000 lb boat has a 95 hp.500 miles proved useful.200 to 1. Antarctica and Alaska where conditions dictated powering for weeks at a time. repairs and spare parts to track down. cruising speed of 6. Ideally the boat you are considering will have a common make of engine that will be easy to find parts and service for in less-developed cruising areas.3 knot top speed. My 42' ketch displaced 25.2 knots. . I have supplemented standard fuel tankage with jerry jugs stowed in cockpit lockers with each of these boats. Pisces. Key Points to Remember Make sure you really enjoy and know how to sail.500 mile range at more economical 6 knots. Complete an offshore passage. but the top speed of 7. Marine Insurance companies and banks are often able to recommend surveyors whose opinions they trust. Mercedes. Pathfinder.· Can the engine be removed if necessary for rebuilding without having to destroy the cockpit or companionway? · Is there an engine hour meter and logbook showing maintenance history? · What is the fuel consumption and range under power? 600-800 miles minimum under power for long distance cruising where fuel may not be available for months at a time is only a minimum. When I bought my Hallberg-Rassy 31. motor which provides an 8. Bukh and to a lesser extent.
Also available from Armchair Sailor. Inspecting the Aging Sailboat.O. 2007. Joining a sailing club or chartering different can be helpful. Details on www. International Marine 2006. Nestor. Don't overspend on initial purchase price. Practical Sailor's Practical Boat Buying. provisioning and cruising funds.John Rousmaniere.000 and $200. . Islander.mahina. Sheridan House.95 each or $59. Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats . shouldn‟t be on the list!) The Voyager‟s Handbook. P. CT 06836-2626 for $39. DO NOT FORGET THIS!!! Suggested Reading The Best Used Boat Notebook.com.000 which is still surprisingly accurate. Greenwich. If you need knowledgeable. Paradise Cay. Casey. International Marine. S2. Volumes 1 & 2 from Belvoir Publications. experienced (257. Beth Leonard.Henry C. If you are quite convinced that you want a specific boat. Mustin. Endeavour. save at least 40% to 50% of your total budget for outfitting. Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts . Box 2626.378.95 for both. Practical Sailor December 1993 issue has an excellent list of cruising boat prices between $5. 1994. tel 360. noting pluses and minuses of each.000+ ocean miles) and unbiased advise from someone who has no financial interest in the boat you select perhaps I can help. 2nd edition. Cheoy Lee. a oneweek charter on a sistership will be a sound investment. Twenty Affordable Sailboats To Take You Anywhere. Boats to Consider for Offshore Cruising Updated January 2008 Through our Weekend Offshore Cruising Seminars and personal consultation I have helped thousands of sailors locate the best ocean cruising boats for their planned voyages and budget.com/consult. 2004. International Marine.html or by contacting John Neal at Mahina Expeditions. 2007.6131. by John Kretschmer. sailing@mahina.Sail on as many different designs as possible and take notes on the features you like and dislike. (cross out C&C Landfill.
Between the time we ordered the boat and it was built. Amanda and I traveled around the world inspecting boat yards and speaking with designers.000 years.000 miles over seven years of sail-training. exactly the way we wanted it. This list highlights some of the most noteworthy features: Optional rigid dodgers with opening center windows on the 42 to 62. having watched dozens of our ex-students go through the time and cost overruns and seemingly unending teething problems of custom boats. I was eager to test the sailing performance the new Frers-designed 39. Construction There are many construction details that I've found to be excellent. On a visit to the Hallberg-Rassy yard in Ellös. Dozens of these boats are still out cruising the world. The larger water plane area aft means these boats can sail to windward in strong winds and seas with very little pitching motion. Purchasing a used boat and going through a major refit was something I had done three times previously. and the difference in both light and heavy air performance was surprising. After careful evaluation. trading off with his employees for time aboard. the yard incorporated several standard upgrades which they did not charge extra for. Large tankage and engines and fixed windshields with optional hardtops are common features and consistently high construction quality has resulted in steadily increasing value of these boats over the years. Having sailed 114. very reliable cruising boats without any concession to racing design or passing tends. The entire yard closes for four weeks each summer allowing employees to go cruising on their own boats. 46 and 53. and boatbuilding is a family tradition carried out on the island of Orust for over 10. a center-cockpit. and the designs that followed have consistently been comfortable.HR46 Review Article Christoph Rassy started building production sailboats on Sweden's West Coast in 1966 with the Rasmus 35.000 boats to date. Many of the 260 employees have been with the yard for over 30 years. attractive and reasonably fast. 42. Sweden we met Christoph Rassy the owner of Hallberg-Rassy. In 1988 Germán Frers was hired to design a new series of yachts. The Frers designs brought improved performance with longer waterlines and other features such as external lead ballast. aft cabin cruising boat designed by Olle Enderlein. He is an avid sailor commissioning a personal boat every few years to cross the Atlantic. and in some cases unique to Hallberg-Rassy. Before selecting a Hallberg-Rassy 46 to replace the older-style Rassy-Enderlein designed HR 42 which we sailed 70. according to archaeologists. we took the major step (for us) of ordering a new HR 46. I was particularly pleased to be purchasing hull #92 of the design.000 miles on Rassy-Enderlein designed HR 31 and 42. you'll never want to go back to a canvas dodger that can be . Once you've made a rough ocean passage with a rigid dodger. semi-balanced rudders and a sloop rigs. We gave very little consideration to a custom design. and to know that the yard had completed 8.
easily carried away. A Seldén deck-stepped mast with solid wood support that transmits loading to the interior grid system. This may be due in part to the fact that the hulls are built under strictly controlled temperature and humidity conditions. The powerful 1300 watt. Over 40 knots upwind we easily rig the removable inner stay on which we set a bullet-proof hank-on storm staysail. mast support and engine beds together and divides up the large storage areas below the cabin sole. I have come to prefer this deck-stepped mast design as it eliminates leaks where the mast comes through the deck. A substantial structural grid fiberglassed to the hull made of hand-laid fibreglass that ties the bulkheads. In winds over 50-55 knots. A simple and efficient sloop rig minimizing foredeck clutter. Oversize thru-bolted mooring cleats including midship spring-line cleats mounted on top of the solid teak toerail in such away that chafe is minimalized. An excellent anchoring system with a watertight bulkhead and deck anchor locker for 250' of 3/8" chain and three fenders which drains overboard. creating roomy storage space below the main cabin settees. . Permanent sun protection is also a consideration in these days of ozone depletion and high rates of skin cancer.000 miles to date on our 46. Running backstays provide additional mast stability. not into the bilge. during our 42. Two bow rollers are standard. Delta permanently stored on the bow. screws. After 156. and the boat handles the weight of a 75 lb. I really like the fact that the yard takes the time to grind the inside of the hull and bilge smooth. Very careful osmotic blister protection. The tanks are installed after the deck is constructed and are easily removed without having to destroy interior joinery work. even when we are sailing in Antarctic or Arctic waters. providing a hull with excellent torisional stability and no chance of water absorption. we drop the triple-reefed main and hoist a storm trysail. CQR and 44 lb. Substantial stainless tanks with 275 gallons fuel (including an optional 100 gallon tank) and 245 gallons water are mounted above the keel. A deck that will not leak! The deck also utilizes Divinycell coring which does not have the water absorption problems I've seen on many boats with balsa-cored decks. corrosion at the mast base and deck collar. even in 90' depths. and the inevitable water in the bilge from rain entering around masthead sheaves. I have spent much of the past 22 years in tropical waters aboard my HR boats without blister problems. A strong hull utilizing isophtalic resin and Divinycell closed-cell PVC insulation above the waterline.000 miles on my HR 31. 42 & 46 I have never experienced any deflection or problem with the deck-stepped masts. rivets or adhesive for strength or watertightness. and below the cabin sole. and paint it with a gray topcoat. This means no sliced or scraped fingers from errant fiberglass strands when installing equipment or cleaning. We have only had to hoist the trysail twice while in the Roaring Forties. This eliminates moisture and condensation problems. 24 volt Lofrans vertical windlass has worked flawlessly. Hull-to-deck joint that does not rely on bolts. Utilizing a reefable 130% headsail with foam luff we are able to sail to windward in up to 40 knots. All interior lockers are lined with satin-varnished mahogany battens. The joint is heavily glassed on the inside the entire way around the boat and solid stainless steel rods for mounting stanchions are recessed into the bulwark thus eliminating potential leaks so common when stanchion bases are thru-bolted. I believe this an excellent construction technique for a cruising boat.
12 volt alternator. A semi-balanced rudder suspended on three sets of roller bearings and utilizing Whitlock torque-tube and bevel gear Mamba steering system gives fingertip control. In the aft cabin we chose a double to starboard and single berth to port in the aft cabin. the "power-steering" effect of being semi-balanced is addictive. 24 volt unit and retained the stock 50 amp.000 installed. We replaced the standard alternator with a Balmar 135 amp. one for each bunk.000 of the units installed. I was initially concerned that the design didn't have a full-length skeg. two house) gel batteries for the 12 volt systems. We chose not to utilize solar panels. we installed a total of four 8-D gel batteries for the 24 volt system and three Group 27 (one starting. the bow thruster is a good idea on a boat of this size and displacement. and have found that one hour per day of engine running in the tropics is sufficient for battery charging. In retrospect. A boat with a flatter underbody would surf better downwind but have reduced storage space and prove less comfortable going to windward in heavy weather. electric winches. A convenient swim step built into the reverse transom. and we will probably install one when we sail back to New Zealand in 2002. Options We chose far fewer options than most 46 owners: no generator. plus additional fans in the heads. air conditioning furling main. The rudder post is solid stainless steel.000 miles. Massive amounts of storage area are available below the cabin sole and on the 46 it runs to nearly 3' deep at the main bulkhead. we had the yard install ten Hella Turbo fans. A powerful yet economical 95 hp engine with excellent access from all sides and plenty of room for additional systems. We have five large Rubbermaid bins screwed to the grid system and filled with spares and food. galley and nav station. We cut and pasted layouts from the brochure until we had the combination we thought would work best for eight people on ocean passages in all conditions. hydraulic furling systems or bow thruster. A 3500 watt Trace inverter provides 110 volt power. tapered at the bottom and the substantial welded flanges are also tapered stainless steel. instead of a centerline double. We find this type of transom unbeatable for active cruising. Mooring stern-to floating docks or boarding from a dinghy with this type of transom is a breeze! Layout Although few changes are allowed to the standard layouts. saying that with over 3. Not only does this make getting out of the water after snorkeling and swimming easier. We opted for a four-cabin layout with upper and lower bunks in the cabin directly forward of the main bulkhead. the yard really knew what they were . Instead of air conditioning. standard L-shaped settees in the main cabin instead of easy chairs. a traditional v-berth forward. A substantially deep bilge and sump with external lead ballast with stainless keel bolts. A friend who had just completed a three-year South Pacific cruise aboard his HR 42 with the factory-installed Frigoboat evaporator system convinced me to try it. the yard has several optional layouts for each cabin. Instead of the optional generator. requiring far less rudder input and effort. it is also makes practicing the Lifesling Overboard Retrieval system easier. I had originally planned to install an expensive holding-plate refrigeration-freezer system that would have run $10. but after 42. even in heavy seas.
We had hoped to have a bow thruster installed. In retrospect. Having a boat that is fun and fast to sail has meant that we have enjoyed going for daysails. It has been a delight to spend our time teaching.000 miles in eight legs from Victoria.doing. radar. In six months this summer we sailed 11. In only 28 days of work from the time our Hallberg-Rassy 46 was unloaded from the freighter in Seattle. although we prefer to run or close-reach. SSB. and sometimes it''s surprising how much it can cost just to have a sound but basic boat . through the Panama Canal. We ended our cruise on Sweden's West Coast at the Hallberg-Rassy yard. in 82 degree water with a maximum of one hour of engine running per day. We have twice experienced winds over 65 knots and seas over 30' in the edge of the Roaring Forties between Auckland and the Austral Islands and have found that the HR 46 will heave-to in these conditions. as you may know your particular plan is the hardest one to execute on a small. A bonus was that the cost was a fraction of the holding plate system. INMARSAT-C. Ireland. relatively spacious liveaboard features AND is suitably designed & built for long periods of offshore sailing. There can be no compromises on each of the basic systems as well as the structure of the boat. this wasn't possible. Tahiti. Canada. Our best 24-hour run to date is 200 miles. I chose to install the Max prop and insulated backstay upon commissioning in Seattle. close-reaching in 3545 knot winds from Rangiroa in the Tuamotus to Papeete. hiking. but with a twoyear backlog of orders on most models. additional batteries. to the Caribbean. The second major difference has been how little time we have spent making repairs over the past 42. we are able to comfortably sail 160-180 miles per day. The sailing performance has been very good. This was the first huge difference in time spent outfitting between purchasing a used boat and a new boat specifically designed and built for ocean voyaging. across the North Sea to Norway. weatherfax. The HR 46 has met our requirements and has proven a comfortable home. a friend and I commissioned the boat and were ready for our 10. inverter and highoutput alternator.000 mile shakedown series of sail-training voyages to New Zealand. up the west coast of Ireland and Scotland. Will. In retrospect. holding the freezer at 10 degrees F. Amanda. thinking it would be less expensive. We installed the mast. and meeting people ashore. I know we made the right decision. hardtop. re-bed the windlass and service the forced air furnace. but our list was short: replace a couple of hatch seals. watermaker. finite budget: buying a boat that offers both comfortable. tacking through narrow passes and into anchorages instead of motoring. We have been delighted with how well this very simple system has worked. snorkeling. instead of making repairs. Many people asked if the boat would be ready for a major refit after so many miles. VHF.000 miles and four years of hard sailing. across to the Azores. even in very modest winds. I had the factory install Autohelm ST-50 series instrumentation that has worked well. I now really believe that the factory only charges cost their cost for options and recommend that anyone purchasing an HR have the factory install as much of the optional gear as possible. we have found that this design can sail to windward into 30-40 knot tradewinds at over seven knots without pounding. More impressively.
(before the first piece of gedunk hardware goes aboard).. as well as the overall financial planning plan she offers. Often these boats are initially selected thoughtfully. preference for your kind of project (namely. your time window isn''t as long as it might feel. suitable suit of sails for such a trip. 4. or. Just to give a few examples. they tend to congregate in returning yachtie locales and so targeted shopping can be efficient.. and so the design and build may be suitable. Here are a few things I would do initially. but rather to suggest a context in which you take the next steps. or power.S. the basics might have been already tackled. by the time you leave. Second. and by chatting to them on the phone. bushings and perhaps chain will need replacing. No one does this topic better than Beth and it is crucial to a successful fit-out.g. Third. and 20+ years experience with Interyacht. While you have cruising experience.but I think that''s starting at the wrong end of the logic train. I know this doesn''t take you to a specific recommended list of brands & models. most brokers will want to sell bigger boats. these issues may all be new territory for you. Solicit broker recommendations from others and make your choices using length of tenure as a broker. SF Bay and the Long Beach/San Diego megalopolis. or multihulls. since that not only influences cost and ease of handling for a short-handed crew but also *may* define how ''big'' a boat truly is in the ways that are meaningful to you (volume. Since you will need to tackle these projects yourself ($$$). and it''s unlikely you will find the boat with an adequate. None of this is meant to disuade you from The Plan. Consider a bias for boats that were prepped for cruising but where the cruising never ''took'' for at least one of the crew. if working different coasts) along with doing your own web work. E.). Use a broker (or several. you may have a structural issue to address (how old is that rudder? does it work on its post?). adequate cruising kitty AND financing the subsequent re-entry. older/cheaper/midsize cruising boats. Accept that ''smaller and simplier'' is going to be your primary theme and shape your shopping accordingly. load carrying and such). 3. Annapolis. Just as the previous poster illustrated. given that you also have to find the boat and then sail her sufficiently thoroughly to come to know her before shoving off. the boat will probably require a new standing rig (and perhaps lots of new running rigging). were I in your shoes: 1. I''m thinking of places like S Florida. By ''smaller'' I don''t mean "small" and I''d encourage you to think displacement before length. I would recommend Al Gundry at Interyacht in Annapolis if you are shopping in the Mid-Atlantic/NE region.. Since you are apparently in the U... the steering cables. excellent knowledge of the marketplace and of sailboats. which is what you are asking for. there may well be choices out there that are . 2. Buy Voyager''s Handbook by Beth Leonard and carefully review the chapters on boat selection as it relates to the cost of cruising.
any country eroding their Bill of Rights is turning its back on greatness. I would recommend you review John Neal''s list of recommended design and build preferences for Pacific-type cruising. biased to the larger vs. lower stresses on the boat and crew. Respectfully.html .suitable to your needs but which you wouldn''t consider if starting out with the typical ''Island Packet/Tayana 37'' type list.com/cruise. and lighter than aluminum or steel. to that degree they have fallen from grace and trivialized the sacrifices made by all who have gone before that gave their lives to guarantee their freedom. I think that building this boat in steel would be a major mistake in terms of lost seaworthiness. people are free. offering easier handling. but the consequences of exercising that freedom may be catastrophic. but worship at the altar of irresponsibility. I was born in a country in which freedom forms the cornerstone of our democracy. They know who they need to keep under surveillance. everywhere on planet earth. carrying capacity. Moreover.very useful info IMO and of course John''s been cruising in the South Pacific for 3 decades now. The Caribbean 40 appears to be a nice boat although slightly dated in terms of being derived from a more IOR era design approach to buoyancy distribution and foils and so less likely to offer as comfortable a motion or as high a performance as a more advanced design. because it makes their job easier. lesser well known boats might also have lower prices. However. Good luck on the Big Search. smaller) list of cruising boats. and a wider range of flexibility in changable conditions. motion comfort.mahina. a smaller sail inventory. I have been in countries in which the secret police are more than happy to watch you exercise your personal freedom. and offers some combination of being stronger. I personally like aluminum construction given the newer and better choices in alloys out there. Freedom has many different faces. Many people don't understand the meaning of freedom. The truth is. They talk about freedom. We have a Bill of Rights that guarantees basic freedoms unknown in many parts of the world. it can actually be a lot of fun! Jack As has been noted Van de Stadt is a highly regarded designer. and performance. which does include a (now dated. To the degree they amend their fundamental freedoms. higher maintenance costs. but probably would build using the cold molded wooden option because cold molding is generally cheaper. The fractional rig is a great choice. See http://www. and for that matter. Any country without a Bill of Rights is a scary place to live. They actually believe the world owes them the .
place them on the table. That's thirteen years shackled to the study carrel in the library. maybe even for the next thirty years. the choices I have made have limited my freedom to a significant degree. But there is nothing in that document that makes you free. and I was able to practice my .right to do whatever they want. I have placed a high value upon maintaining my personal freedom to the greatest extent possible. four years in medical school. but they never march in the front door and put shackles on your arms and legs. That doesn't mean you are free. That's not freedom. and fellowship training that made me into a board certified ophthalmologist. They come in the back door with their ball and chain. Your culture has many powerful forces at work that would curtail your personal freedom. doctors are still held in high esteem. their new and unwanted life long companions who will not and cannot go away. you are headed in the right direction. Those who exercise their freedom to engage in promiscuous behavior and inject drugs often find themselves shackled to hepatitis B and AIDS. five years in internship. During most of my adult life. it's anarchy and chaos. This single choice opened the floodgates of freedom. You know exactly what you are going to be doing in the foreseeable future. and retina and vitreous surgeon. so they could take a look in the mirror to check out the long term consequences of the choices they make. and it's going to be a long time before you have enough freedom chips to once again be free. and all that has to happen before I could put up my shingle and practice medicine independently in the real world. When you sign on the dotted line for a thirty year mortgage on an expensive house and a five year loan on a fancy car. and let you put them on all by yourself. young people often make choices that last a lifetime. the operating theatre. irrespective of the impact it has on themselves or other people. because you will make choices that will shackle you more securely than a regiment of secret police ever could. residency. Nevertheless. you just put the shackles on. That's why I didn't dispose of my scalpel or take down my shingle until I was forty-seven years old. Add to that the responsibility of raising a family and paying for their education all the way through university. So what did I do to keep from going crazy in my world of limited freedom? First. It's unfortunate that God didn't install a freedom meter in the middle of their forehead. but at least you have a firm foundation on which you can build a life. because true freedom comes from within. If you can take the Bill of Rights seriously without sliding down the slippery slope of irresponsibility. I chose to work overseas in international medicine. most of the time. There's not a lot of freedom when you spend four years in college. Overseas. the likes of which haven't been seen in the United States for fifty years. They don't need to strong arm you or even intimidate you. the emergency room. Without realizing it. The Bill of Rights protects your freedom from being compromised by forces outside yourself.
then you need to visit another physician. freedom is just a thought away. and that's why so many of them worked there for such a long time. I saved freedom chips. They trusted in God. That means I kept my infrastructure to a minimum whenever possible. My patients knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was their advocate. insurance companies. Fourth. At the same time. I chose to live the unencumbered life. I have never owned a house. If you can't trust your doctor and hand him your burdens. In Arabia. They simply motioned you and your Land Rovers through the checkpoints. the Arabian desert was one of the last places on planet earth where you could do expeditionary travel without fear of running over landmines or getting caught in a crossfire in a civil war. The reason is simple. You must think and act freedom into your life. The parallel universe can be a wonderful place to invest your life. Freedom to practice your craft in an unencumbered manner is worth its weight in gold. the long arm of my own culture didn't reach across the sea and control my daily life. you were just going into the desert to have the adventure of a lifetime. I would do the same thing. I saved up more freedom chips. Not to practice defensive medicine because I needed to cover my buns. and we spent weeks each year exploring this sandy playground. that I would sail around the world. and they trusted in me. and you could get in your Land Rover Defender and drive off-road for 500 kilometers in any direction once you were outside Riyadh. They didn't even stop you at checkpoints. Period. Arabia was peaceful. There is no place on planet earth that was safer or more accessible to people who wanted to drive off-road. Finally. I had more personal freedom in Arabia than in any place I have lived in the world. I had the freedom to be myself and live my life how I pleased as long as I showed up for work on time and practiced my profession with integrity. Each year that I lived in the magic kingdom. to restore lost vision. I lived in a parallel universe in which none of the rules affecting the Saudis applied to me. and no one cared where you went. and if I had to do it over again. even though I lived and worked for sixteen years in Saudi Arabia. Not to argue with insurance companies for reimbursement. my job was to help people. a catamaran. Practicing medicine in the third world was an extremely demanding but very liberating experience. but I have owned five Land Rover Defenders. Not to fill out Medicare forms. because the authorities knew you were not a threat. . The Empty Quarter is the biggest sandbox in the world with sand dunes hundreds of feet high.craft unencumbered by the dead weight of Medicare. Everyone who has been an expatriate in Arabia knows what I am talking about. You can't be free until you learn to think thoughts that result in freedom. so that one day I could buy a freedom machine. and I would move heaven and earth to do everything humanly possible to fix their detached retina. When I worked overseas. Third. and rightly so. and a legal system running amok. Fifth. Second.
Small world!~ One of my workers had been looking for a sailboat for over a year and when he and his wife saw ours they bought one just like it in under 2 weeks.to $100. Those who I have talked to about this have asked large amounts of money. without alienating any local officials. Lar I can cruise on 500-1000 per month. For the money it is alot of boat. We have worked our budgets to allow us to write a check on the day we die.. and find out all that cash can be spent in just a few years. This why I asked you to start with. (the boat is in the yard now) I will be able to fill in some details for you. I Found 2 of these boats in Oriental north Carolina very impressed any one know ware I can find the specs on the 45' Gulf Stair Hirsch I have all the papers from when the boat was new including the color sales brochure. 2. I give more weight to 1 post by an owner/past owner than 20 of the others. The boat is selling for more now than when it was new. or having my boat confiscated. And when I look at Exit Only anchored in paradise. He owned it for 20 years as it seems most owners keep them a long time. I believe there are some changes in the Hirsch version. without working on other boats. Digging around in the www I have found lots of the options/stories on the boat. Our goal is not to leave anyone with a nest egg. I can feel the freedom start to bubble up in my mind. and the "system" required you to be destitute before you qualify for assistance. Set out boat components(frames. scarry truth. you do what you can do and deal with the rest. Make and install steering systems. They are really happy on theirs also. not helping someone else live thiers. Their hull number is #7 1985. from personal experience. somewhere around 90 years old. Cut. learn and work until i can't. i plan to live. Most foreigners require visas. My neighbor likes mine so well that he is traveling to the east coast of Fl to buy one for himself. those experiences will be what she looks back on. fuel and exhaust systems. bulkheads. almost none of us can save or make enough money to guarantee security.000. obviously there is a balance in there. When I get a chance. and explained that their availability is limited.When I sit behind the wheel of my Land Rover Defenders. when she has her old butt parked in some chair. my point is. we will all be dead for a long time. As I move towards building my new boat I would love to have people to help me. and have it bounce! We are living our life. such as workers compensation insurance. Talk about resale value it can cost $60. I thank God that I live in a place and time in which I have the freedom to sail on the ocean of my dreams. glue and paint wood well. I want to earn 500-1000 per month while cruising. So far I have managed to track down only 2 people who have acturally had a 45' HIRSCH and both have given it great reviews. I have things such as the line drawings and original sales price list as well. Near as I can tell these look to be great boats that under rated and valued. personal choices have a lot to do with good health. you can spend your entire life saving for old age. cupboards). I was lucky to purchase mine from the original owner and he kept all the papers. some who know us have described me as the wind that drives the boat. 4. . However this is not an easy thing to do in Australia. Thanks for the posting.000 per year to pay for assisted living. Install and maintain engines. Given all that the following skills must be in demand world wide among the cruising fraternity:1. i feel bad for people who end up in that chair without those experiences. They bought it in Ft Lauderdale. There seems to be a shortage of all kinds of skilled workers at the moment. and taxation make employing someone a problematic exercise. Wages are high and the additional costs. capt. but my wife would be the first to tell you the adventures she has experienced are the best part of her life (except her kids). and my wife as the keel that keeps us stable. 3. and if possible.
repaired canvas and made cockpit line bags for people. but they had a good time visiting us in the Bahamas and St. they live on their boat in a marina in the city they're working in. tenured professors who pretty much cruse whenever they want. We've also worked carnivals. I work as a writers coach and editor and get manuscripts by email from publishers . I tend to carry sufficient tools to rebuild my boat from the ground up. There is no lack of work and marine work pays well. Of course. While working in the States. stainless steel and aluminium. and have skills to match. Get used to working quickly and moving on if storm clouds appear. I run a small web based business that sells 12v and 24v computers we also are doing very well providing wifi and voice over IP products but whatever you do you must remember that it takes a very long time and an awful lot of commitment to make money while afloat I think the key is to have two or three different things on the go and any one time this way you are always able to keep a constant stream of work have a look at my site by all means www . block. The kitty gets fat quick on the hook 330+ days/year. marketing my business. stainless steel etc). We've met public school teachers who cruise the Bahamas in the summer. they don't need the money. From what I have heard from other cruisers (not personal experience). Rigging and mast installation. Tech writing is a very viable source of income that can be done entirely on board.net all the best PAUL Basic Ownership Costs NE 36' sloop Long Island Sound Summer mooring $1. awnings etc. Not that I think that does not have a positive side. wash. and we're looking at the boat show this year. hoping only to locate materials. Charge like a wounded bull. gone aloft. museum festivals. Make the boat big enough so that you have an onboard workshop and store of durable basic materials(wood. etc. is probably the reason that such services are at such a premium. Sevilla & Venice to beat the winter storms. I actually work all year around but do the main part in the winter including networking. epoxy.NeptuneNet .500 Haul. and fiberglass would be hard to provision) Specific to Australia. you have problems. although those skills are in demand (especially below local rates).600 In water storage $1. generators etc. I can say I've been a carnie. the minute you step off your deck in a foreign port to make money. This would develop the above skills.it's a growth industry and jobs are begging. We've been cruising the Med for the past 6 years and stopping up for winter in great locations like Rome. cleaned interior & exterior of other's boats. recharged refrigeration. Sailmaking and making covers. 7. relaunch for bottom paint $400 Add cost of insurance + annual running costs which depend on sail or power. You might make money faster than you can spend it. 9. I know a couple who are both RNs. Cut. (10000# of wood fasteners. Works very well for them. how many days used. My sister and my sister-in-law are both RNs. they both think that sailboats are silly. and many other things. 8. but it certainly does not encourage outside labor.5. where hospitals are very happy to have them. wine and bbq festivals. Even in the third world skilled workers are in demand and difficult to find quicky. too. However. I would say the government's antagonistic view towards outsiders. Installing DC wiring. nothing beats the RN gig . and then they cruise in the Caribbean for six months. 6. Also. numbers on board to be fed and watered etc. Living onboard in the winter here usually means good internet connections and lots of opportunities. and meeting clients IRL. especially those who would like to reside or god forbid earn a living in that country. Set up and maintain watermakers. fit and weld steel. __________________ In the summer we have done prep and paint Awl-Grip. They work for six months in the States. as it certainly can boost an economy. My suggestion is to build your own boat full time. and they make something like $40/hr working for temp agencies whenever they care to. Maarten.
and writers. There are programs on the internet where you do your classes online and then fly to a location to all your clinicals for that semester in a 1 month time frame.. coaching and classes) by visiting an internet café once a week for up. Once you are out and want to stay out you WILL find a way. so finding work shouldn't be too difficult. there is a lot of work out here. the day-offexcursions and so on. I don't compete or interfere locally. Could you arrange workshops in your own field of interest? In the summer. During the winters. then sailed until the $$$$ ran out ~ a pastry chef who worked on the Catskill mountains for 6 months (apparantly a lot of resorts close during the winter up there) ~ a long-haul trucker who sailed till the $$$ was gone. If you have even an A. accomodation (I usually rent large apartments where the diningroom will serve as a classroom). I used to be an IT consultant/manager .B. when I've gotten to know a place. As you can tell by the posts. Her profession is much in demand. This year been working in a Loft/ chandlery in order to get some new sails. If you . When I lived in a motorhome. many of my neighbors were traveling nurses and CT techs working 3-4 month contracts for and average of $40-$50/hr.. Sure. just the way it is. Would that work for you? Oh. not yet financially comfortable enough to retire. they go the dr.. YOu can even be employed in many countries that you would not otherwise open to you. ~ an anesthetist and an RN couple who worked 4 month contracts.anyone can change :-) I turned my hobby into a job. and it mostly depends on where your expertise and desires lie. this same conundrum faces us. should you think I write funny for a writing coach :-) Like Holding Pattern I do what ever it takes. and ship to about anywhere in the world. I am Family Nurse Practitioner. This is the highlight of my year . I will then work for 3-6 months and sail for 9. There is now a Nursing Compact. they get sick and go to the dr. My business is registered in my country where my customers pay and I declare taxes. You will always have a job. This allows you to work on your own states license in another member state without becoming licensed in that state.& downloads and work offline with preparations. when they don't have money. An RN license will also open foreign countries to you for longer stays that just a tourist visa.I love cruising but sometimes miss talking to people with the same interests and during a couple of weeks with the classes I get my full share. but do contribute with "creative tourism" which usually gets attention by the tourist offices. then worked for 5-6 months My girlfriend is a radiographer. and undoubtedly could get work as an engineer. I can easily run my mailbased business (editing. This past winter while cruising we met: ~ two golf pros who worked in NY for 6 months. When people have money. My partner is a qualified occupational therapist. English is not my native language. or even as a CAD draftsman (easy work). Some times you will need to stay somewhere a long time in order to get what you need ( aside from the sails I needed an engine rebuild this year. the registration. I am design engineer.. Been out 5 years. so have been here for a while). PS. Currently working on getting debt free and going to build my own catamaran. but frankly I find myself jaded by the design office environment and am hopeful of finding other work. but it pays well and is a great experience every time. I arrange writing workshops and IRL coaching on location for people from my own country. You will always be busy. 2 year program and easy to find a job just about anywhere. They love to travel and can afford it! I had 40 people come to Venice for 6 different classes (I also flew in established writes as teachers). it's a bit of work arranging the workshops. and I "invented" this job one year into cruising as I was getting all these ideas and wanted more intellectual stimulation.. and is quite happy at the prospect of working for 2 or 3 or 4 months at a time wherever we happen to decide to drop anchor for a while. I also run an email based writing course. preferably boat orientated. (In Istanbul the tourist office staff was so thrilled they came to take pictures in class :-) Hopefully this will give some of you some ideas. As my partner and I get slowly closer to live-aboard life.. but not wanting to wait to go any longer than necessary. then the country club closed for 6 months. seaman's card you can work about anywhere on the coast of the US. and sometimes you will not have to work at all or maybe only for a week or two. there are many ways to approach this equation. The Blue water shipping hitches usually run for 4 months at a go.
I was thinking of taking it cruising and I was wondering if other boaters would be interested in aerial photos of their boats when they pull into scenic locations? I already know local waterside businesses are interested. Last year I put together a system with a radio controlled pan and tilt. erase love handles and bald spots etc. too. but when its good.have a Captain's license you can usually get seasonal work about anywhere. I was racing in a regatta that had a guy that took photos from a ultralite. Canibul. whatever. video downlink. I believe I spent over $100. Photos looking straight down on a reef in clear water are pretty neat. I considered RC helicopters... you can work about any resort in the world. Wish there were more people that offered this service. including underwater housing etc. if you combine it with a dive master's certificate. erase that bikini bimbo who bummed a ride. I would think may owners would appreciate a nice still like these. Logistics on the RC helicopters is tough. Got any pictures of the blimp itself to share? I don't know if your aware of a company that is in the business of taking photos by helocopter called "boatpix".<G>) Plain boaters won't pay you enough to pay for the continual need for helium.. He sent me a couple of proofs which I bought one large photo and a couple smaller photos of me in action on the race course. sunset. then sue you. zoom. LOL these pics were just me messing around from the beach one day here where I live. He had a brochure in with the racing packet where you could leave your name and address. And local harbar patrols and small Caribbean countries will try to throw you in jail for espionage in this crazy jihadi world. Xray Ted Give a man a picture of his boat and you've made his day. shutter etc. The whole package fits under a helium balloon. (Apparently there's even one island nation down there where it is illegal for anyone--including children--to wear camo clothing. What do you think? Would anyone want boat photos from the air if it was immediate? Could hand you a print and photos on CD within an hour. There were over 400 boats at the regatta and I know several others that bought photos too. so you can see right through it and will improve the colours and clarity too. They can remove all of the glare in the water. its really good. Go figure!) Nice toy though. Good luck. The helium approach is limited by wind velocity. Ca. (Easier to sell the rig to real papparazzi. you're papparazzi intruding on them and try to shoot you down.clean up clutter. Teach a man to take the picture and you've ruined a wonderful marketing oportunity! Keep your voice down and just do it!!!!! A guy from S. hung a video camera from a kite. You can also start catching gigs doing yacht deliveries My wife and I have both been amateur photographers for many years.sunrise. Have a number of cameras. Since the system would easily fit on a boat. boat name. I've got to wonder and play devil's advocate though: Rich folk will say. Are there a lot of people doing this to pick up pocket change and beer money? I could put the system on my dink and photo every boat in an anchorage in an hour or so. (Hasnt everybody?) But we've put a few bucks into the hobby. . I'd be tickled pink to see if you COULD make a buck on it. Or rather. and then added Enya's music. A polaroid filter on your camera will improve the quality of your photo's like you won't believe in this situation. which is a fad elsewhere these days. They have been making a living by taking pix on major events (like sail rallies and photos of yachts underway) So there is a market for that too. a buck more than helium refills cost.F. Can photoshop the colors. I've raced at a lot of events in the last 15 years but this was the one and only time I had photo's taken. Polaroid Filter. It was a nice shot. but started with the blimp approach because i dont like the idea of having 10K worth of stuff hovering over salt water. because thats why I got the blimp setup in the first place. Interesting idea.
I think they would head out in the dingy and snap a few photo's themselves. He bounced along in an inflatable with a camera in hand shooting away. Hi a magazine:KAP Background . and then approached the captain with said photo. Now I know that if I head out in my dingy (or Boat) and took pictures of the boats at work with their boat name nicely framed in the picture. I would make sure there is a market for it! Are you kidding me? You need to ask if it's a good idea? It's genius! Especially in areas where there are a lot of charters. the press departments (Public Affairs) of the shipping companies buy a lot of pictures of their ships (especially cruise ship and ferry operators).000 a month in the height of the tourist season. Here's why you won't stay "under the radar" for long: on any given island there are precious few reefs that are good for snorkeling. not to mention their source of revenue. they charter aircraft to do press packs on vessels.Canibul . then approaching the pilots and stewardess's with a proof offering to sell. I've already given away WAAAAY too many secrets. and I have a couple myself. head out today or tomorrow and see about selling a few photo's and let you all know how I made out.definitely a market. I'd hire you to do all of our beach properties. Anyway. problem there is finding the Captains of said tankers.000 a month or so! You know. last I heard. as very few pilots had a picture of themselves in the planes they actually flew. It's only a matter of time. harbor patrol officer. say about $50). They charge a fair bit & are busy all summer.000 for a draganflyer.Famous photographer George Lawrence photgraphed the 1906 San Fran earthquake from kites. there's a company taking photos from a high-tower on their boat. I don't know. and when it's some yachtie in a Pearson 26 trying to eke out extra cash at the expense of their natural resources. don't expect them to take a patient approach in dealing with you. in places like the Bahamas there are boat hands working three dives a day. I knew a guy who paid for his commercial pilots licence by taking pictures of the large planes landing (747's and the such). fish and game officer. Well. I would think that I could do the same for all the tankers that ply the waters here. however. I worked as a divemaster/scuba instructor in a resort area for fifteen years. it didn't take long to figure out whether he was legit. however the sales rate may not reach 90% though. I cannot see why this would not work with boaters. As far as trying to sell a photo to a cruiser. Did well enough that he trained a local to help him. et cetera within a hundred miles knew me. Anyways everybody knows someone who could sell ice to an eskimo. If you ordered he'd drop off prints the next morning.000 a month. Much cheaper than hiring a plane. We would need to do a WHOLE BUNCH of writing to pay for cruising. Vincent & Grenadines. The only plus side is you will have some great scenery while working on your computer. The pros dive those reefs day in and day out.The Aerial Eye . If you were in the Philippines. That's a fairly high-profile work load. They will be aware of increased pressure on those reefs the moment it happens. let see if I do get that 75% success rate or not? Only a $1. I know I have.. then came along side later in the afternoon with proofs to show. And when someone new came into the area. Sounds like a cracking business idea to me. Also. Quite often. I'd have to work ten dives a week to clear $1. The herring fleet is just starting to get geared up here on Vancouver Island. think I will see if I am just blowing smoke outta my butt or not. dont get too attached to any R/C plane or helicopter you fly FROM a boat. coast guardsman. and I'm gonna shut my trap! BTW. Then.Yup .. I often have guests who want a pic of the boat they chartered on. there's magazines. have to get clearance from local authorities to run your business in their country. press libraries such as Popperfoto and others. At $16. betcha I get a 75% sale rate (guess it kinda depends on the price. dive boat operator. He found that his sales were in the 90% range. As well. There is a Brit ex-pat who started taking pix of boats entering Elizabethtown harbor on Bequia is St. and I guarantee you every park ranger. six days a week whose wildest dreams are that if they stay in the business long enough they might some day be able to clear $1. and are very protective of them because of how fragile they are. harbormaster. good luck. and not all would welcome you I'm afrade. I'd suggest you market it to various government tourist bureaus. And I knew all my competitors. The problem with earning a decent living that will support your cruising lifestyle is that it will demand as much time as a full time job. __________________ Not sure what the writing jobs on the net pay but we have been writing for boating publications for almost ten years. Adding the overhead perspective is cool! You would. . Bankaboat is right. air fill operator. It buys some beer and a few dinners out and that is about it. so in the end it's all about price and how well you sell yourself and the product. In Vancouver.
unless you have a very specific skill such as sail/ canvas/ mechanic/ refrigeration. I have written four books. Not all rewards are financial. unless you have a very specific skill such as sail/ canvas/ mechanic/ refrigeration. I have been out about 5 years now. A friend of mine has a mobile welding shop on his 40 footer. but I do have ten websites that cost a couple of thousand dollars a year to operate. You may indeed find some who have successfully done what it is you wish to you.000 pages downloaded per week. so you are half way there already. Do not depend on getting work from other cruisers. My son does sell his cruising DVD on our sites. there will be fewer people lined up to buy the one asset you will have (boat) and they will pay far far less for it than you did. have been out here living it for 3 yrs and love life. Marinas and boatyards hire people with good skills sets. if you do its a bonus not a steady income. due to lack of money. Once you have done a couple of seasons you will find that the connections grow. or by doing deliveries. We get up to 25. I am afraid there is no easy answer.I don't have an internet buisiness. but that dream is skewing your logic. People who have not been out are always worried about finding work. you will be underwater in selling your largest existing asset right now. and I am on track to becoming a bazillionaire if you can reveal to me the financial secrets of the internet. It sounds like you are being realistic in how much you expect to earn. If I was trying to make money and support myself. People who have not been out are always worried about finding work. In the Carib. I find that I need to work about 4 months a year. West Marine is actually not a bad choice for cruisers. but its amazing how much hunger and the need to purchase an expensive part can drive you to a source of readies. __________________ Dave Exit Only Lots of marine based businessess are willing to hire cruisers as long as they will commit to a season. An economic downturn that would mean that customers might be tight for any future business and should you need to bail on this whole deal. Do not depend on getting work from other cruisers. if you do its a bonus not a steady income. I have thirty two web domains that I own. Budget marine is always hiring. and when I hit my download goal. this year has been more as I needed to repower. And you will do this in a recession during which time credit is tight. it is not mean to be. There is a lot of work out there at the levels you are talking about. I understand the "dream". I would have gone bankrupt years ago. I get paid very well for making these kinds of analysis and you are getting this for free. but I don't get anything out of that except the joy of seeing my son's talent and hard work paying off. and the amount of income they would generate would be negligible. Come to think of it. Budget marine is always hiring. cash is tight. A friend of mine has a mobile welding shop on his 40 footer. then I will print up one book and sell it on my sites. . let me know. Lots of marine based businessess are willing to hire cruisers as long as they will commit to a season. and I'm not planning to do anything commercial with my sites until I have at least 100. even if the jobs are not posted on their website. In the US. that's a pretty good reward. I have a number of friends who work for them in season. Once you have done a couple of seasons you will find that the connections grow. but they are few and fair between and they rarely make much more than poverty level living. I apologize if the above seems harsh. even if the jobs are not posted on their website. It is much better to base yerself somewhere for that time than try an make a living and voyage. Marinas and boatyards hire people with good skills sets. thats an average.000 pages a week downloaded. You propose to sell the real assets and property you have and depart whatever enterprise makes for a good life for you and your family. or by doing deliveries. I have a number of friends who work for them in season. but its amazing how much hunger and the need to purchase an expensive part can drive you to a source of readies. If you figure out a way to make money on the internet. it's a lot of fun helping people get their lives together and inspiring them to live their cruising dreams. West Marine is actually not a bad choice for cruisers. so you are half way there already. I don't put any advertisements on my websites because I find that advertisments are irritating. In the US. You will then tie up what looks to be half your liquid assets in a platform that will then continue to incur a tremendous amount of daily and monthly expenses for you that will further erode your remaining cash. It sounds like you are being realistic in how much you expect to earn. Until then. and always managed to find work. And just FWIW I find that on a 38 foot boat I need to earn about 7K USD a year Hope this helps and fair winds Elkman. In the Carib.
you and every other person that has a boat in the carib. No benefits. Sure. Another idea: find a business that you can gain a little income from while not having to be there all the time. But hey. Make money captaining boats. I think you are headed in the right direction. herding tourists who could care less about safety.Making money doing charters? Sure. If all this does not work out. liquidate your assets and invest wisely in securities. ( before they were part of the EU) middle east. You do have to get used to working for local rates. it is to help. and yes it is at " poverty level" in the west. Make a very strict budget that allows you to live on a variable income. What about health insurance for your family? $350-600/mo. Out on the water for long long hours. Why on earth would you trade the nice life you have to compete with all the billions of other guys doing this? All the above said. this is not to be harsh. Buy a $50k monohull at the most.. A slip in a place that your customers will come to. Hope you like oil changes. loving life Don't buy a $180k boat. It is different enough so as to be able to distinguish itself from the billions of other starving charter operators out there. One last thing. If you have years of experience. but from where you are. and otrher places. Sure. living on the hook thats defin. You will work every weekend and every holiday. You will work 6-7 days a week and many do liveaboard instruction. Sure. high end and low end charter biz's that put ads in the glossy mags. Go buy a copy of "A cruising Life". however the chance of success is probably lower than any other new business and the risks are quite high. liability and costs mean that to begin a charter business. I know Pete quite well. long hours fixing engines and then when you return. you love it. commodities and some bonds (whould be about $300k. You have a lot to lose. more than half of what you will need). No vacations. a captain's license and instructor level certification from ASA or USS at a cost of hundreds). you have much less of your money tied up in a boat that may take 1-2 yrs to sell.5-2/ft scraping barnacles off hulls. . Greece. You can always ratchet up from there. and then re-evaluate your plan. Again. back for one day and then out again. and he is still out there living on about 5k a year. for whatever reason.have you done the market research. but you need to shed the ways of land if you want to succeed on the water. the best jobs come to you when you have time to check things out at your own pace.. Buy a much less expensive boat. which even at 5% would give you $15k income. right? Make money diving.. you are investing hundreds of thousands up front to make hundreds in profit all while incuring millions of dollars in liability. but even in third world countries skilled labour runs about GBP 5 an hour ( about 8 USD). As for times being tough. there is Always work. by Pete and Annie Hill. Best John __________________ USCG 100T Master's License I have worked in many coutries that in theory require a work permit. You can get $1. Maybe that will work. I find having a 1500 reserve means I can pick and choose. try having a couple of people come for your fat farm biz aboard your boat (after you get a capt lic and liability insurance) and see how that works. $1000 a month. your idea of a fat farm biz aboard a luxury cat is a good one. Make money teaching sailing. not a problem. they will find a way to employ you. In addition to the huge. it can be done. internet access.. Simple and lower risk. If you have nothing to lose. It can be fun and it gets you out on the water. maintaining those engines. there are a tiny number of sailing schools in FL that may hire you for $31k/yr. business plan and cash flow analysis to take this kind of risk? Charter insurance could be 5% of the value of the boat a year.. in effect this means allowing 6 months in any one place. you will do a lot of them. The above is more than $250 worth of advice. Cell phones. I am not sure that your $1000/mo income require above would cover all that. I have worked in Turkey. And again. How experienced a captain are you? What level license do you have? How are you gonig to cover your liability as a captain and owner of this enterprise? Unfortunately today. If somebody wants to hire you. If you like. web page for your business etc etc. thats just the way it is. Use cash for the first year of cruising and then income for the remaining. it would be difficult to know of these realities. thus you will be gone from your family for 6-7 days straight.but. worthwhile for a cruiser. I apologize if the above seems harsh. so there is $9k for you right there. always leave yourself a nice reserve for arrival. read it twice. And again. Check out Living On a Small Income.
I had a friend in Tokyo that corrected copy for several English magazines. you can just spread the word whenever you come into port and someone is bound to come and ask you to find something. 1.200 sq feet tops. And has been for sometime. food. John Drake made some very on the mark comments. There are few jobs where you are completely independent of other people for long periods of time. Here is how I did it: I worked a traditional retail job for 6 years. buy a boat you can afford.Chris Wow: Thanks for the advice. etc.. On one note I did not make clear.like a life jacket for wheel chairsspecial bathing area and lift to get the person it. The Beneteau First series is a very highly regarded cruising boat even though its primarily a racing design ( at least in the EU) and there appear to be quite a number of Bene 393's out in the blue stuff. I drove a piece of shit car. She got paid about $20USD per page of copy and was making about $500 per week.. It was a great gig. last I looked it was somewhere between $18.in the high 40's. The work was already translated but the spelling and grammar were poor. etc. I spent a few months in Thailand (twice) last years /two in a one bedroom bungalow. Catalina.. I have met people that do it with thousands a month to spend on alcohol. special gear for wheel chairs should the boat sink . especially equipped for the handicapped. or a society or business paid for it. That left me with about 12 thousand to do updates on the electronics. I have had a couple people tell me the 50 K boat is the way to go. He could charge high as usually it was wealthy folks on it. happy as a clam.. You should be able to pick up a vintage (early to mid 80's) one well within your budget.from all of you. Our marina is full of people with boats with payments. etc. I rarely see them as they are all working.but the slip fees will end once I hit the road. I had enough to pay cash for the boat I wanted. He was so successful.. but you might find one for around 65-70. Disclaimer. I am on my boat everyday. Jenneau.. The ketches fetch quite a bit more. Hanse. and make enough each month to keep me in food and slip fees.4 mil is perhaps realistically worth 500k. and if you got instructor certified and get a captain's license you can make good money in the charter buisness because they are always looking for people that a certified divers to take people out on trips and you could get a hefty profit. . Since my boat is paid for. and I have met people that do it for a few hundred a month. This market is untapped so some one out there might want to take advantage of these folks putting together quality cruises. with no payments.and I never did until a friend of mine did it . no TV. actually you can. My advice. My friend set one up in the Okanagon and he was swamped with business. nothing but a toilet and a bed. and probably use it a lot more. without payments. Its high time to unload. His boat was really tricked out. One of my real estate investments here. After 5 years. my business here is losing money every month. Ill be happy to take 300K just so I get something this land based crumbling empire I built. outfit with some solar. I might add that there are a couple of Gin Fizz sloops in the US for sale at very good prices. I've gotta do this right the first and only time so I'm not saying oh fuck later.and that is to equip a house boat solely for disabled folks. wore the same clothes daily. get a dinghy and outboard. there is little expense to the cruise. Personally I am in favour of the lighter production boats over the old heavy displacement cruisers. You will be happier. For example.000 and $25. Bavaria. he outfitted another boat about two years ago.. I had nothing material. and cut back on everything I could.000 for a weeklong charter of a 46' cat that can hold 8 people and that was without diving. Christopher Reeves was one of his clients. Loved every moment of it. I currently find work on the internet. Beneteau. Ill re read these several times. Thank you for your clear and direct well thought out advice.i am owned by one ( not for sale There is a lucrative market that most of you never thought of .. Each month putting as much aside as possible.
paying cash for a boat that needs a bit of work on it is much more sensible if you are a handy-person and it gets you on a boat. live the moment & good luck Saved up money as an employee for years. if hard times ever came. and then we set sail. Many professions require that a person stay current in their area of expertise or they lose their professional credentials. If I was a 36 year old pilot. bad boat and it was just the luck of the draw.com/ I would like to do a schedule of working for six months and playing for six months. Criticisms? Pushpit is a joke & lifelines are too low. these days i fund live-aboard cruising by doing odd jobs for other yachties. Here's a website that might be of use: http://www. That way I would have the best of both worlds. If this one sank tomorrow. They take this attitude because they are suspicious that you have a drug problem and have been in rehab. Sounds easier than it was. too. chainplates. After all. I am not planing to go back to work if at all possible. etc is very problematic with the same true for wiring and plumbing. I would have the credentials to instantly return to work. why would you not be working unless you had some type of serious problem? They can't conceive that you might have another life as a cruising sailor. but the fruits of labour are certainly nice! Prior to 1977 or so the build quality was suspect--kind of good boat. so they definitely are blue water capable. I've seen 50's and 44's all over the place.I worked in Saudi Arabia for eleven years before taking off on our circumnavigation. the last time was for a few days about four years ago. Not having to work is nice. I would plan a mixture of cruising and flying where I had the best of both worlds. I worked as an Airline and Corporate Pilot for US an foreign carriers for 17 years and I am using all my savings plus inheritance. They're well-laid up. Around 1978 Lazzara got his design act together and the yard seemed to really tighten up. I am in medicine. Hospitals and insurance companies don't want to credential you because you have been out of the loop and are not current in their opinion. In addition. The joinery on my 1982 44' mkII sloop is as tight as the Hylas' I looked at in the Miami boat show. leveraged savings into building up a firearms company and sold the business with enough left over to be able to buy the boat and cruise around. and if you don't work for a couple of years. I'd buy another one.gulfstarownersclub. whilst i dont regret anything about my life i often wonder where it might be now had i realized my dream to own a yacht when i was in my twenties and not my 50's. Designs were uninspired. it's very hard to get a job. But keeping your options open and maintaining your credentials is a smart thing to do. I am now 36 years old and I will be living aboard soon at the BVI. and when you finally do your six months of sailing. General access to backing plates. which can be sold when a buyer comes along. . the idea of living in marina doesnt appeal to me at all and as a rule i'll only use one when there is no alternative. No doubt about it. I imagine that a pilot has to fly a minimum number of hours to maintain their rating and flight proficiency. well designed and well built. too. you enjoy it that much more because it is a welcome break from your work. The boats from 1978-on seem to be from a whole other builder. Six months of work generates a lot of disposable income. We saved up Freedom Chips and paid cash for Exit Only. for barter and cold-hard-cash for landlubbers. I'd give it high marks for liveability and comfort.
Now I'm on the boat in the cruising community of Mexico. a car and still had cash leftover. We drove from the Iraqi border to the Yemeni border and from the Persian Gulf to the Red Sea without ever having a problem. We were in Malaysia when 911 happened. but like Topsy it grew and grew. very very broke.. Came back from Asian job with enough cash to buy a fixer upper boat... got divorced and went back on the road. __________________ Dave Exit Only I used to spend a lot of time abroad and not working (albeit no boat) and after 6 months I actually found it felt good to be back "Home" working again and using my noodle (albeit never too much ). that's probably the area to do it. In four subsequent years we've laid up ashore (Spain.. I started with. http://www.March. Greece x2) flown back to the UK. Thanx Homeland Security. funded by savings and planning to go until the money ran out. and for me saving hard for 6 months is so much easier than trying to do the same over a much longer period. had great fun and discovered that almost by accident.htm My last two years in Arabia were not so safe. When hurricane season is over. Life was very good. Bombs and other homicidal events against foreigners were becoming a real problem. things were very safe. you go sailing for six months..interests change for both sides. and drove tens of thousands of miles offroad in the desert. they rounded them all up because they were causing a lot of trouble. At the end of the first season we were unexpectedly in London. I fell in lust I think. 4 kids/8 years later. I see it as being feasible to carry on this way even if/when we cross to the Carribean and US. and if you are going to be "packing". To be honest. About a month ago. Al Quaeda had come back to Arabia. so still have the funds for that three-year break.. Went back to Asia and married a little brown sweetie (9 years ago) who could travel with me. rented a flat and worked for twenty weeks. .com/Positivegraphic55. We actually set sail full-time. Coming up the Red Sea.a very bad idea. and trying to figure out how to bring my Indonesian wife here. Italy. same industry. we've never failed to at least 'break even' for a year. I'll just need to work for an extra couple of weeks to cover the more expensive air fares and boat storage costs. When hurricane season comes. At roadside checkpoints the police motioned us through because they weren't interested in western expatriates driving Landrover Defenders.. I don't feel nearly as safe as when I was out cruising on Exit Only. and the Saudi government released 600 of them back into the general population .positivegraphics. you can haul your boat out and return to work. We had total freedom of movement from coast to coast. Got married .The six month cruising/working routine also fits nicely into global weather patterns. Decided to quit hating the travel work and started long term overseas work. We camped in the desert between 60 to 90 nights a year.. Now that I am back in the USA earning Freedom Chips in Phoenix. Things changed. Bought a condo. During most of the sixteen years that I worked in Arabia. there was no need for weapons. I had a letter from my employer that gave me permission to drive anywhere I wanted in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. got married. I find myself in an armed encampment. Blundered into a job that paid well enough. I'd more than covered all our expenditure for the year. Wrong wife. The Gulf of Aden is a high risk area. Bombs started exploding around Riyadh and in other places around the Kingdom. for some reason. I took on a two-week freelance contract primarily to help out a friend and help stave off the boredom. no plan. I was an eye surgeon in Saudi Arabia. 1 more kid and 8 years later got divorced." I wish they would post signs that told me whether I was in a 38 caliber or 45 caliber zone as I was driving through town. The one big drawback to even the 6 months on / off (albeit it never seemed to work exactly like that) is that can still be easy to drift away from freinds and "home life" . Check out this link to see pictures of our Arabian adventures in the Empty Quarter.. I've never seen so many gun shops. as a result I worked Nov . our expectation was 2-3 years.. Very very broke. where I found that the one aspect of the lifestyle I'm not cut out for is sitting around in a marina for the winter. and lots of people are "packing. sold the condo and came away with enough cash to start a business and quit traveling. But I had to travel and I hated it.. hated me being my own boss..
with the improvement in rope technology these days. The only part that doesn't seem to work is getting my wife’s visas in order. EVERY boat seems to be some kind of "work in progress". I just don't see the call for wire to rope any more. It's a good idea to have a healthy respect for the sea too. I'm being rather tongue in cheek.. Yes. so to speak. my sell price would be $564. Now. Like most things really Thanks for the link Paul. and also assumes this would be a "cash" job. $75 a splice. even so. because the chandlery charges about $6 per metre for 14mm rope. but of you deal with the rope manufacturer direct. and are getting their profit out of selling the rope). Eeek! $1128 for a set of mooring lines. Most seem to be financially secure. Bernard Motissier said "life is too short to do your own rope to wire splicing". say $32.. I think you are right in that it is not used so much today however once you know how to do it. you would need 38m of rope and 12 splices.But aside from that little mud puddle in my life. 14mm double braid. Actually.. say 8m finished With a small eyesplice at the marina end of each line and a large eyesplice at the boat end of the line. I would not be here. I'd even use black thread for the whipping. no? As for wire to rope splicing. I thought $50 (the price around here) was a bit high . And I see cruisers here that don't have much. if I buy the rope and charge $3 per metre. Wow. single braid. What I do know is that I could charge less than half of what the chandleries around here charge and still be making money for old rope. say 4m finished 2 stern lines at. Perhaps most cruisers can splice anyway? Maybe marinas have someone who does all tehir splicing? I don't know. with appropriate sized eyesplices.. . From a chandlery. 3-strand etc. there still looks to be some margin there. I would be living hand to mouth and hating life. you can buy a whole reel (typically 200m.. with my expenses being $38 for the rope and about 8 hours of my time for a $500 or so profit. chandleries charge like wounded bulls for double braid eye-splices.and we are the boom state . heh Obviously that is a rather oversimplified calculation and doesn't take into account freight costs for the reel of rope. Can't keep up with the rules Do you wise people think that there is any money to be made in splicing? I am getting pretty damn good (though I do say so myself) in splicing: Double braid. Some are not. while live aboard cruising. say 4m finished 2 springers at. So now (finally) I have a "plan". This allows more money to be made. that would be $228 for the rope (at $6 per metre) and $900 for the splicing. Around here. As for wire to rope. or normal I think to be afraid of outliving your money.5m per splice. It's OK. which is half the price of the chandlery. Basically. if it were not for a pair of divorces. Bottom line is. or to owners for halyards. black. more than once. I have lost the nest egg. for a standard set of mooring lines: 2 bow lines at.5 per splice. just use Vectran or Amsteel or PBO etc and have the strength of steel. I leave the boat and accept an assignment to some foreign country. but sometimes 100m) at $2 per metre. at the customer's required lengths. Lookimg at it realistically. and assuming 0. Those prices look extremely competetive (I'm guessing they are doing the splicing at pretty much cost. with similar stretch characteristics and a fraction of the weight. and charge. for dock lines etc. so no cut to the taxman. What do y'all rackon? I'm thinking of ofering mooring lines as a complete service. I'm wondering if there is potential to make a bit of money. take my wife with me and we spend months making good money. And when that job is finished we come back to where the boat is. offering spicing services at marinas.. I'm talking like $75 for a 14mm double braid eye-splice. sheets etc.. it becomes quite easy. I will say that I see boats here that are rough. But life is good.
We extended our cruising budget from 3 1/2 years to 14 years by doing odd jobs (mostly refridige and diesel mechanics) and we also had a canvas business on board. for the sake of argument. the customers won't have access to online vendors. which has worked well for us.. Sewing isn't that hard if you have a good machine and a decent size salon on your boat. and paid well.. the idea of working while we cruise was a number 1 thought. we planned this by adding many different skills to chose from. Its worked for me. I now hold a hand-full of qualifications as an ICC . Being in construction can take you around the world. Enough said. your sail boat. what would it be? Is there something that would be valued and usable worldwide? My opinion is: 1) electrical. and 3) Refigirations. 2) diesel. why go cheaper? I like to splice my own stuff. That. These are the important things.. It just takes me too long.. I hope I'll be able to make a few extra bucks. We even got into manufacturing parachute sea .. Casey When we planed our cruising. and I bring it up as you're in the same field. I'm in a very remote corner of the world.. I do know an Anesthesiologist that can work within 24 hours of hopping off the boat if there is a hospital near by. or I'll be flooded with work. but if I can. servicing and installing electronics on tankers. so moving around from job to job or country to country is a reality. but made the change to Construction Inspection. Reasons. We built everything from winch covers to full cockpit enclosures.you might get one! As for boat handy man. I too would say electrics. My advice to you would be to add to your list of qualifications as you work. having shopped around a couple of the other chandlerys. then 2 years travelling around Europe. or most likely they won't have access to a rigger or marine store either. I never tried to work from the boat so I can't comment on legalities. in my above example. there are guys who make a lot of bucks at it. But I sure can't do it time-wise for anything like what these online outfits charge. and your mode of transportation. I've been working in the position for a few years now and have had offers from around the world. Fortunately much of that competition is not committed to putting in a hard day at the office. would equate to about $850.. And now finally on pilot boats. There is also a lot of competition. there probably are people splicing cheaper than chandlers. 1) Electrical problems are the most common on a boat and people are afraid of it so you can charge the most. I am not trying to compete against the cheapest splicers in the world. So. Since I don't work in the medical field myself it's hard for me to say what the lowest level might be that would work. In this case.. We always had more canvas customers than we could handle. but therapists also can do well too. My experience is never to tell anyone around the harbour what I'm doing.. I have managed to get a quoted price down to $54 per splice. diesel mechanic.. etc.. starting out on submarines in the navy for a couple of years.40 per metre for the rope. but where do you find 'em? In fact. and $75 is what the biggest (and most expensive) chandlery hereabouts charges for a splice in 14mm (9/16") double braid.. charge half of what the local guys will charge. Thinking in terms of what locals need is more advantageous than trying to compete for local jobs that don't pay well . The more training you have the better and more valuable you can be.. 12 volt genius. 2) diesel is very important to people and takes an expertise beyond the level of many people once you get past the basics. I've spent the past 9 years in the marine electronic business as a service technitian. They cruise full time and work very little.But the point is that I am not in the USA. If you had to do it over and could spend time learning a trade before you sailed. your sought after. An RN is almost gold.. I could charge as little as $25 per splice and be making good money. And the best thing about it is. for my planned cruise. If the Admiral is happy the crew is happy. I'm competeing against the cheapest splicers in my area. But may want halyards. One of these skills. LPN's and other specialties also are in great demand. Its a good skill to have. Actually. leasure boats etc. being realistic. I think you said you wanted to do this to make money while cruising.Special Inspector in Concrete and Steel. I was a certified welder and an Iron Worker by trade. refrigeration guru. Most won't want dock lines. 3) refrigiration. ferries. and $5. is the construction industry.
I hope you build it. and I like this size. if i need something specific for this water. etc. figure 10 grand for a decent ( not great but decent ) early 80's 27 to 30 foot boat.The Lewis Marine Group: Lewis Marine Group . As far as other people's opinion. John Marples (searunner). What I am looking for it is information . Someone will find the information useful. Personally I'm going to build a 38-42' Horstman Trimaran. I intend building in wood/ply+ epoxy as well and have also emailed DixDesigns.Boat Owners Warehouse: Welcome To BoatOwnersWarehouse. Boatshop Philippines. Norman Cross. Hi this is my first post. It costs us about +or. problem is design. then slip fees from 2 to 4 grand a year plus the electric is . sails. Inc. Most cruisers would also rather pay another cruiser (with good referrences.regardless of their own competence or inclination to perform technical work themselves. One of the problems is to accurately describe what you want.anchors. And in your case.com etc . then it would be useful to have established relationships with: . And like you plan. cruiser ( will be build) wood/epoxy pacific asia waters: Thailand.. I think you may have over budgeted though... perhaps to your benefit. Ed Horstman. Sourcing parts from a remote location can be difficult. because I have many friends. but the overall plan is solid. I have everything under control (money). keep a portfolio) then to pay some boat yard in a 3rd world country that just hired some farmer as a diesel machanic a week ago. I rarely used it (mostly free-dive) and I most certainly wouldn't concider giving dive lessons in a foreign country.too many things to go wrong and the liability and legalities would be very risky. we do not visit marinas and eat on board for the most part. They are as follows: Kurt Hughes. If the USA is to be your source. as I said. Be your worth while having a look at this builder for possible information.Land ‟N‟ Sea Distributing. they all thought we were/are crazy!!!!!!!! But there are also a lot of people who admire us for living the dream. or just regular design should be ok? I am in a good position. A good way to end up in jail IMHO. my quote applies very well " You can always make more money.Kellogg Marine Supply: Kellogg Marine Supply Home . . Inc: Land 'N' Sea Distributing... Philippines best design for this region? yes it is big. Inc..Port Supply (West Marine): https://www. Professional outsourcing of parts often requires that you have a commercial account with wholesale suppliers. sounds like a pretty sound plan to me!! I can't say much about the boats as we are catamaran people. plan: 55 ft catamaran.Jerry's Marine Service: Jerry's Marine Services . I had a dive compressor on-board for several years. He has built multihulls for all/most of the above list I have given here.1k per month to cruise the Bahamas for six months per year.. The designers using wood/ply+ epoxy to build multihulls are from the 70's and 80's.portsupply. Indonesia.com . The co-designer of the Dix 550 built the first Gunboats. so the cost is not the problem. I will have for the fraction of the cost.. all have designs for around the 55' mark. which one? You have picked a very nice boat. but i am going to build only one boat in my life. There are lots of things that you can do out there and a lot of cruisers are (unfortunately) mechanically inept. But you can't make more time" a boat would be much cheaper. So carbon mast. This is why I recommend that all cruisers carry as many Shop & Parts manuals as they can . so we have a lot in common (your English is perfect).
Grampian 26 is roomy. aft cabin. sink. sleeps 5. Trailerable without permits (8' beam). some it might be more For 20 grand there are virtually hundreds boats in 30 ft range.not to see how much of a minimalist I can be.no refrig.000.com/photogallery Clipper Marine 32. newer one). Sailed a 32' Bucc from St. We just brought her down from Jacksonville through some nasty weather on the ICW and she handled it well. then figure 2 to 4 grand a year in paint and other maintenance. so each is a little different. If your not planning on crossing the pacific. sink and shower head. http://www. We just bought a Watkins 25. Pete Fl. definitely not a bluewater boat.refrig.no oven. oputboard powered. Can be found w/ inboard or outboard engines. so yearly cost not including the boat will be 4 to 6 grand. I sail to enjoy myself and travel inexpensively. Very live-aboard friendly. Lots of room for a small boat. Deck stepped masts and fixed shoal keels. other fees like pulling it out for paint. etc. to the Finger Lakes NY (and back) in 2007 no issues.no freezer. so high end it will average 500 to 600 a month. not the world's greatest sailer.) I've had a few of them through the years and have no complaints. enclosed head.(some have marine heads) ours has a porta-potti. perfectly suitable for live aboard. now you could get away cheaper some years.no shower. roomy. 30 foot and trailerable.sailnet.000 mortgage. 2 burner alcohol stove (we are replacing with a safer. the low aquisition cost allows you to invest in more creature comforts (ice maker. Also they can be purchased for extremely little money.solar. I would take her to the Bahamas in a heartbeat. going back to your requirements Bristol 27 with outboard motor well and “dinette“ interior can be found for $6000 at most. Most are listed under $20. However. but each to his own . .nothing compared to a house. great time. Good ones can be had for well under 15k. no tv. winter and other stuff might be 500 a year ( dry storage figured in the slip fee ). which will be more than a house needs. why pay more? I think your best bet for a trailer sailor to live on is the C&C Mega. trailer included. the nice thing with a boat it you can move it when you want a different view. or equivalent to a 80. large icebox. Look at old Bayliner Buccaneers they come in a variety of lengths 24'-30' in the trailerable catagory. but good bang for your buck. mostly 6' headroom enormous interiors for the size. She has 5'11' headroom. and cheap. The each were individually build to the owners specs. We really like her. I laugh uncontrolably at other sailers w/ very expensive boats and no heat. Here are a few pictures of her.generator. I guess.
Depends on the 30 footer. with the right kind of boat. Also depends on the personality of the person too. There are some pictures in here: Flickr: endeavor_64's Photostream I just bought a 30 footer a few weeks ago. it depends almost entirely on a combination of your personality. If you're able to part with the things most people insist on surrounded themselves with. This is getting way to philosophical. I live on a 32' and have no wants. they are usually very happy. I don't think 30 feet is too small either. 30' is not too small. find the "right" boat. You can see the interior of the Yankee here: Winterhawk Restoration I think there is a lot to the go small. I would be very happy on a 30' boat. I think that even a 40 footer is "too small" lol. there are several boats out there that will work.. I am going to be moving on to my 31 Pearson for the summer to give it a try. but would find a 30 foot cape dory a bit small and cramped. but have done what most of us will not do. life will be simpler). and get rid of everything you don't need.. When I look at the people living on 30' or smaller boats. Anything more would simply be extra for me. They moved ashore after their second kid. unfortunately my wife is unlikely to be very happy on anything less than 40' (particularly after she saw the Hanse and Tartans at Strictly Sail in Chicago .really stupid mistake letting her on those boats). a Westerly Pageant. I was looking for something a little bigger. but it was exactly right for them during that time in their life. you'll be golden (and. a yankee 30. but it's plenty of room for me. And the best part is small boats can be had for cheap. which is to get rid of the extras that make life easier (and usually more complicated). . I could be wrong). But the main feature was speed. a 23 foot english pocket crusier. I currently have two boats. I can cruise for a week with my girlfriend and daughter. and systems/maintenence tend to cost less. If you are looking for comfortable accommodations. they bought one and lived on it together for two years. I suspect. and your ability to draw a distinction between the stuff you need and the stuff you want. go now. but I will let you know =) No. If you are looking for a large aft double birth and two heads. I've lived in it for going on two years. I know a married couple who spent their honeymoon on a 24' (I believe it was a Bristol. the enclosed head is nice. Be patient. forget it.. and I've not had enough beer for that. with small but appropriate amenities. and liked it so much. where you are in life.. It is small. Like a lot of people have said. I would have no problem living on a nice Kirie 30 for example. The Westerly is a little sluggish.. I think it will be ok for just me.
. are two very different boats. My dream yacht is an Alberg 30.here in Hawaii it's much easier to live aboard a small boat as the weather usually gives you all that additional deck space to be on. Our kids have long since moved away and the aft cabin is largely empty. It has everything we have at home. however I am not sure that I will be able to fit everything my wife and I psychologically believe we need on board. I know of a couple that live quite happily on a Yankee. the difference in performance is equally noticeable. Aythya crew We could live on our Catalina 30.. My Yankee 30 and a Catalina 30 (for example). While a foot more beam in the Catalina doesn't seem like much on paper. the actual difference down below is startling. but when our two chidren were 7 and 9 years old we went ot a 41' boat. difficult to sail by my self (most of my passangers do not know how to sail). I will be retiring in the next few years and am looking forward to cruising.We have no horror stories to tell and had a great deal of fun. L124C has a great point. a mild climate makes things a lot easier.. except the yardwork I live on my Lancer 30' just fine!! I've not lived on a boat before.") Look in a range and don't rule out those 27 footers. . By 1973 we moved to a 33' boat. It depends on the couple and the number of children! My wife and I moved aboard a 30' sloop than we bought in 1971. "We need a bigger boat.Is a 30 footer too small? For what? for how many? What is your expectations ? what are you willing to give up? what do you hope to gain? Not a simple question. though two people seems tight for me... As already mentioned. We could go back to the 30' and do well. What do you want? I think 30 is big enough. but we're spoiled by the 41'. (I used to be like the guy in "Jaws". I have a 34 and its to big for me. Also "living aboard" while cruising is very different than doing it while working in the "real world". but it is in the plans. 'take care and joy..my neighbors across the dock have 3 kids under the age of 6 and live aboard a 30 ft custom gaff rigged wooden sail boat-They're experienced sailors and feel they have plenty of room now (of course when those boys get to be teenagers all bets are off lol!) When my husband and I were looking for our boat I was overly concerned with length and over the years came to realize that it has nothing really to do with whether the boat is a great liveaboard or not. We were aboard a friends Bayfield 32C and found that it was far too large for us. On the other hand. As far as I am concerned a 30 footer is not too small .I lived on a 27 footer for 2 years with my husband and a small dog spending that time in the Keys and the Bahamas and mainly at anchor and with no shower and no refridgeration and very little money.
We plan to have our kids and grandchildren join us part of the time. how does a couple justify a 3000 sq ft house? If I can squeeze a shower and stove with oven into an Alberg 30. porti potty toilet.000. It would be a whole lot better than living on dirt. boat. Its more of a weekender rather than a liveaboard but I don't have much stuff so it works out ok.. There are many people cruising boats smaller than 30. We often talked about cruising that boat but with the IOR nipped in stern and long narrow bow it would have been like camping.. and no shower so it will be roughing it so to speak but def worth it for the traveling. Will you day-sail? coast-wise cruise? island hop? circumnavigate? How much fuel and water will you need to carry? How much pantry and refrigerated space is enough? We intend to cruise extensively off shore so we went for space and mass. It was a croud. Cozy beside our little wood burning stove. Our Camper is 58 feet and displaces 55. When we decided to retire it was either a large place in Naples or this reltively tiny little boat. The hard chine stretched the flat part of the cabin floor a lot.We felt like we were in an auditorium. There are many options here and what you intend to do with the boat makes a great difference. I guess there has to be some middle ground. . thats where we'll be. It is packed with amenities but it was fitted out to be crewed by one or two. Once I get used to living on it I'll come back and let you know if its too small for me!!! I managed well on my 30ft. If needed I would do that in a heartbeat. Along the same lines. and had to massively downsize. there was a 41 footer near us with a hard chine and about 6" of cabin height.i2f I just bought a 30 foot islander a couple of months ago and have been living on it for about a month. then goes the piano and the guitars minus my fav. Did some cruising on it too. I am compensating by putting things in plastic bins and they work as an ok substitute for drawers. It was more like camping with no Fridge. That was at 40 yrs of age. but it wasn't hardship.. The only way I could do that again at 58 is if I lost everything. Perhaps I am too simple. propane stovetop. I have no idea if 30' is big enough buy that isn't stopping me from buying a 31' sloop and moving aboard. Too much? I raced a Heritage One Ton (38 ft)for many years with a mixed crew of 6 to 8. the transom was broad and the inside of the boat was a palace. I have found several leaks in the rain and my stuff is at least dry that way. The one thing I am noticing is there is a distinct lack of storage space for things like clothes and stuff that you just don't want laying around. but I can't see how a couple could possibly live in a 40 footer. Lived on the boat for years alone. I am really impressed with the volume and comfortable space in the modern smaller boats with the wide transoms and beamy interiors. Some of the recent 30's hold way more space than a lot of the older 40's. It has a full keel with swing centerboard and skeg mounted rudder. they're positively huge. or freezer... I have already sold my harley and the volvo is next. I fig I spent two of the last 3 years in iraq so no matter how small a sailboat it will be an improvement over sand!!!! The sloop has an icebox.
very beamy engineless cutters. After living on a too-big 44' houseboat for a few years I figured out I didn't need most of that space and I'd rather have the freedom to go more places. 99% of my belowdecks time is spent at a desk. One couple who had just come in to a large sum of money and also were both close to six feet tall. I have seen and talked to so many who had bigger boats like 40ft and was tired of working all the time paying just to keep it tied to the dock and there very happy on there 31ft boats. I thought for sure I would be replacing it but I am finding it quite functional. Both boats were purpose built. I to wanted a 35 at first but then realized I don't need . We then spent much of the past 25 years voyaging extensively on board 29'6" Taleisin. In 30 feet a big hardsided suitcase takes up pretty much an entire settee. As some one mentioned here.wouldn't have traded either for any boat we saw out there. (See general questions regarding hyfield levers) Just had to put in a few cents worth. in the galley or in bed. Small enough so I could sail either myself. but if they were I'd probably be wishing I could still float in a foot of water or pull it to a new cruising ground behind a car. It boils water quick enough and I have had no real problems with it. All were out there crossing oceans. Happened to notice this thread when I was coming onto the forum to ask for a bit of assistance. were they small enough. small enough to easily fit into corners of marinas in crowded areas. But if you keep things organized and tidy it goes pretty quick.I am finding I do a lot of shifting things from berths to settees and then back while I am trying to do things. has the living space of the average 33 footer. If I was going to have someone else aboard for more than the usual week or two at a time I'd probably look for a different (though not necessarily larger) arrangement that would let us get a bulkhead between us when needed. I am shopping for a boat and really like the cape dorys and southern cross 31 and plan to liveaboard as well. During our short stays we met five couples on boats 32 feet and smaller. add some more storage space and clean up cosmetic issues so I don't have to do things twice. The other couples were delighted with their boats. Some folks say Taleisin. On a 20footer those happen to all be the same place. wanted to trade up to something about 40 feet. small enough to maintain in top condition at an affordable price. enjoying freedom sooner and at a fraction of the cost(both in cash and maintenance time) of the folks who waited until they could afford that 40 or 45 footer. I was kind of worried that the alcohol stove would not work very well but I am finding it works just fine and I have no problems with the heat output of it. in a comfortable reading chair. The oven does not work so I can't comment on it until I get the tubes cleaned out but it I am using it to store my dishes anyway so am not in a big hurry to get it working. and extolled the advantages of the smaller size. Were they big enough? . I could wish the head & shower were a little more convenient. Larry and I spent eleven years circumnavigating on board a 24'4"cutter (Seraffyn). Just this year as we sailed through the Pacific we stopped in only two ports were there were other voyagers. but move a few cushions around and it works just as well. But maybe the real question was. I am trying to plan out how to attack the leaks. If you have anyone come to stay ask them to bring a smaller soft sided suitcase.
Our 44 footer is a great liveaboard and will be a great cruiser as well. Our current boat (30 feet on deck) is a little tight. Keep the boat small and you''ll find you adapt to your living space. then 6 and 9. Our 30 foot boat was great for cruising. Cruising and caring for a 30 foot boat is much easier than a 45 foot boat. Everybody loves it. Cruised full time for 3 years and 10. I''ve had a 45 footer. but not designed for dock living long term. get a smaller cruiser and adapt yourself to it. Wife and two teenage kids. I asked the same questions when I first considerd this but the more and more I read I would rather something smaller and it's all I can afford anyway. Everybody needs their own space . especially with kids.if it''s a couple. The less systems aboard (pressure water. even if it''s the cockpit. If you just want to liveaboard and occaisionally cruise. However. when buying a boat to liveaboard remember you live on it all the time and only sail it part of the time so the liveability of the boat is more important than how easily or how fast it sails. We all thought the boat was fine for us.02 I currently am moving on to a new 2 cabin Beneteau 473. especially with 4 people. so everyone had their own space . I have been a liveaboard for many years on my 1981 Endeavour 37 MK-II. It''s the largest boat that I can sail singlehanded. My new boat is 47'' with a 14. New boat has a seperate cabin for 17 yo daughter and private quarter berth for 14 yo son. refrigeration. get a bigger comfortable liveaboard.there is never enough room. Reasonable cost for reasonable room and can probably be rigged for coastal cruising. I hope to after I buy my boat to save up and take off for a few years so around a 30ft is more of something I could afford. I live alone and always felt that you needed at least 35'' of sailboat to liveaboard. If full time cruising is what you want. Simple almost always is superior. Layout and systems are important. A couple of points. 41 footer.2'' beam. generator) the easier cruising life will be.that. there needs to be space to get away. Plan to cruise in a few years. get a boat big enough to carry enough water and food. Stuff expands to fill available space . But don''t think that you need a big boat. The projected use of your boat will determine the suitability for cruising or living at the dock. 37 footer. Probably 30 feet is a good choice for a lot of people. My .very important. Works well. so bigger is not always better.000 miles. But it is very affordable and manageable. I would be just find on like a 31ft so that is what I'm shopping for. Currently living aboard a 44 foot cutter in DC area. All you can do is go walk aboard these boats and decide for yourself. It had a v-berth and 2 quarter berths. Previously lived aboard and cruised a 30 foot sloop with kids. My wife can handle it . If you''re going to cruise.
and I just finished drafting "Trish''s dream list for a boat". The list of future improvement projects is long . You can''t have any debt but living aboard take far less than a land ancored life. extra 37.) All liight are florescent or halogen. AM/FM/CD that I rarely use.5 gallons of water. I have added to the ''systems'' to make life aboard comfortable (TV that I rarely use. I will share the SHORT version of the list here (without the explaing notes. Before moving aboard I was a little bit concerned about the hassle of walking to the club house to take a shower every day ..000 square foot houses!) So getting rid of the STUFF is vital to a simple and quality life. I am writing a booklet about choosing a cruising boat. and a hanging rod in the head to serve as a make-shift closet. dodger and the usual stuff.the gentle motion of the boat in the slip. [unless you get too wound up about the periodic mysterious disappearance of the odd towel or bottle of shampoo] I enjoy my "home" . fuel. more affordable. This has allowed me to move most of my clothes out of the main salon where they were hanging. Reply With Quote I''ve lived aboard my 32 ft.. a Robert Perry design that is a snug but comfortable home.you will definitely notice that some of the things are mutually exclusive! Plus. thus. I have a large trunk that I purchased at Target for about $20 that is on the floor in the salon . after 20 years of . I previously cruised first on a Contessa 35 (more of a racer..and I am really enjoying the learning curve as I tackle each new challenge. didn''t have enough stowage for serious cruising) then a Hans Christian 36 (another Bob Perry design). My slips fees were $180 of that the rest was food.I moved all my worldy posssessions into a storage facility . personal needs. but of course the HC had more living space.and that eliminated the hassle of moving the tv from the small settee when guests need a place to sit.. Alder barbour. All the hardware is smaller and. Up and down the East Coast and out to the Islands (Virgin) next year.without a struggle. for almost one year now. ` I have a Morgan 323 and love it..listening to the waves crashing on the breakwater nearby. I am still working full time so I had to keep my truck but total cost for living at the marina were less than $500 a month. Reply With Quote Who''''s living on what?? I can''t resist adding my name to the roll! Skip and I live and cruise aboard a beautiful Baba 30. I installed a shelf for a small TV/VCR combo on the port bulkhead in the main salon . 1971 Islander.it serves as additional clothing storage.and with the exception of finding enough room onboard for a small subset of the 500+ books I have in storage. Renaissance. Laying in the v-berth . Of course.. You never ever can have enough room (look at the people who live in 40. The Baba performs better than the HC as a sailor. big enough for 4 for a short period (week or so) and simple to handle.. In the last few months I''ve made two modifications which have greatly improved the "livability" of my boat: a solar powered exhaust fan for the head. insurance and incidentals. is a comfortable size for me now. The first night on board was the most magical night of my adult life..but it hasn''t registered as a problem in the actual experience of it. It is great for 2. I always wish there was "more" room.32 ft.
-.com trish@takehersailing. -.A boomkin.Aluminum toe rail.A cockpit with a fairly small well and seats long enough to sleep on. -. -.Mast pulpits.cruising. Before this boat we owned a 25'' Hunter.A reefer that can be accessed by side door as well as from the top. -.Some teak trim. this increases the choices for sail and rig. I lived on a Hunter 30 for a year before my wife meet me. -.A fixed keel of no more than 6-foot draft with the boat loaded. -.An aft master cabin with a “pullman” type queen-size berth. and there''s more--I''ve left off my "dream equipment list" because that''s the subject of the NEXT booklet!!! Trish Lambert S/V Nehalennia www. . -. -. Again. -. I notice that many things lean more toward cruising than simply living aboard): -.A Yanmar engine. Like I said. We have been living onboard for only a month now and we are learning as we go. a boat that I am confident that I can handle by myself in any sea condition. -. this is a draft list. -.A hard dodger.Furling headsail and hank-on staysail.Halyards led aft. -. -.A shower stall separate from the toilet area.takehersailing.Lots of counter space in the galley.Finally.A boom gallows.Lots of handholds throughout the cabin.A compact galley. and I live on a 39'' Allied Mistress. But it’s a DREAM boat!) -. -. -.A cutaway full keel with prop in an aperture.Wheel steering.A nonskid deck. I like the look but hate the maintenance! -. Now we are restoring a Cheoy Lee 38 with hopes of cruising after the kid''s are gone.A double ended cutter.An anchoring system that is easy to deploy and haul up. -. (OK.Easy access to tankage and batteries. It’s just what I like! -. -. No good reason for this. -.Easy access to the engine. We are still working and paying the boat off but we love it. so having a compact galley pretty much kills this one. -. After a few months the 30 got small. Shelly.com My wife. -.
Great boat for living aboard. We have been living aboard for about 5 years.Live on a Nantucket Island 38 flush deck sloop.O. Poog: You are the man. We love cruising the San Juan Islands and can''t wait to take off cruising down south in 8-10 years. Getting ready to move back on in a month.A. I started out living on a 36' trojan tri-cabin with plenty of room for a single person. Maybe we will be cruising in two months Mexico and south Florida for the summer. I just bought a Seawolf 41 which I intend to renovate. but I go real slow and it has been fine.0 center cockpit in Honolulu. Then I met my husband and he was living aboard a 27'' Sun. I have lived aboard in the past and really enjoyed it. Can''t wait to be back aboard. WA. When we started looking for a house 5 years ago. Usually it's just been me and my gal and we do O. Two bathrooms. It has been a wild ride so far. At the end of the day life seems so much more cool when you get off the couch and find something different to do. yeah it can get a bit sketchy sometimes around the dock. I am with you in that I enjoy the room that a larger boat provides. a .K. but I will just have to get some more experience. so I could handle her better. Expensive? Heck yeah! Good thing I do my own maintenance. Live aboard an S211. I was the one who thought a boat might work better. please email me. 55' L. shorten sail early when short handed. I fell in love with him and sailing and here we are. We have two kids ages 3 and 1 1/2. I found "Ghost" online and haven''t found a boat I like better. and we have not cared the least in the nay sayers that thought we were crazy for trying to pull this off. two single size sleeping areas in the aft over the engines. (: Two happy people. two in the bow. we have met the greatest people. I grew up not knowing anything about sailing. We haven't completely pulled it off yet as we are still trying to get live aboard status. We are taking the last of the stuff to the storage today and tomorrow they turn off all the utilities. but moved off for a year to do some work on her. We liveaboard a 51'' Formosa in Seattle. What else to say? We love this life we have been pursuing. But we will work it out just like everything else. Comfortable as hell though. Love every minute of it! Well we got real and are now living on a Catalina 38 ease of maintanance and the abuility to sail her away with out a crew made our best bet. but this state (government) is pretty boater-unfriendly! 52' Irwin Ketch (1977). Too much boat to handle? Keep a good weather eye out. Japan. I plan on cruising for a year or two when she is done. I do wish she was a little smaller. 15' 1/2 beam 7' draft Is the boat too big? Absolutely. If there is anyone else out there who lives aboard with kids and you want to talk. We are about 20 south of Nagasaki.
I lived aboard a Catalina 30 for several years. I got rid of a lot of extra baggage when I moved aboard and I found out I really did not need it. Storage is more than adequate. No taxes insurance $1000 a year Parking is free. This year I salvaged a 45' Sundance barge that sunk on the rocks in a river. I have a cell phone as my home phone. Trish and I have been living aboard since December 05. . As I usually spend 100 or so days away from harbors. Dan Forter S/V Eventyr www. and heavy. in Auckland. that wouldn't rock with every wavelet that comes along. Cheers. flat screen tv. and never looked back. could be ok for two. As for living simple. However. printers.full galley and salon with folding dining room table. Shallow draft was another thing. With the addition of some charging (wind and solar). How much does it cost? slip fee is $5000 for the year and includes electric and water. I have the skills and knowledge to do so and generally enjoy it. in a marina. Over the years I have added a full pilothouse above so I do not get wet when I go out fishing on the weekend. but three is too many. There have been a few instances of frustration. computers.ipphotos. FL before heading across the horizon to start our trip. The boat is pretty good for 1 person to live in. fax. I purchased an Island Packet 40 for a 2-3 year cruise of the Caribbean. Fuel and water tankage are more than adequate.. I worked 80 hours a week. and if I don't want to cook I can go to the marina restaurant. and the cat. but I wouldn't do it differently. With extensive systems. always with the dream in mind. easy to handle single handed. by myself. New Zealand. Life is good very few people live aboard in the marina its very quit. and there are many fish to catch and eat Reply With Quote I am living on my Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37. I chose a boat that was fully outfitted and in very good condition. I plan to sell one or the other. We lived aboard dockside for a month and a half in Marco Island. I wanted room for my office.com/eventyr I live on my 33 morgan OI with my girlfriend. she was ready to go. paid cash for the boat. then 4 years ago moved into an '81 Hardin 45 ketch. sheetrock walls. I still watch tv but I do not have cable or sattelite just what ever I get for free. she is a chore to maintain. I'm 34 and Trish is 33. I have had no regrets and no major problems on this boat. plumbing. etc. Food maybe $80 a week or around $4000 a year. and now I'm redoing the whole bottom electrical.
it's plenty of room for myself and an occasional guest or crew. and i can anchor close enough to wade ashore. Rent went up. so life is good.. but trips to Catalina and a shorter working week are becoming more realistic.. I'm in Marina Del Rey CA and still working on the boat. gear. Anyway.. cost of marinas..and at 5. no inboard with all there inherent problems and maintenance issues. i love the simplicity of minimal electronics.. BUT. We have an area for each of us as we believe it s necessary for "sanity" and as I am also an avid long distance cyclist I have a place for my bikes and cycling gear. overall. seventy footers but there are so many things i love about the scale i am on. there is nothing better than lying in the nets with a good book and a corona. it's fast. seems managable as we both still work full time and I do spend some time working at the boat. etc. and to those that want to be. all goes up proportionately with length.the cockpit is big enough for a comfortable double bed and my next project is to add a cockpit enclosure.5 '. few systems to fix. With the mortgage on the boat and slip fee and maintenance costs that I can't do myself. recently bought a 58 ft. It's slow under light winds. a center cockpit which is closed(pilothouse). but where else can you live in beautiful surroundings for less than $600 a month? Good luck to all of you in similar situations. I second that and am glad of it.. japanese tub and shower.fortunately. as a home that can take me anywhere. I don't want or need another boat. I'm getting older and dreams of Tahiti are fading..i do drool over the pics of the fifty. The advisement on cost is absolutely correct.. i liveaboard and cruise on a 24 foot trimaran. For me. maintanence is minimal.. It is larger then we were originally looking for but can't imagine living on anything smaller... It has a 15'6" beam.. Living aboard isn't as inexpensive as it once was. there is more comfortable sitting and lounging space than the 30 foot sparkman and stephens i use to live on. sixty. didn't mean to post unfinished. maintenance. Roberts Custom Ketch built in '81.. it's priceless. with a 30 inch draft i can slip over sandbars that others have to go around. but it's very comfortable for me. large (14 cf) freezer and refrig.ahhhhh. but so am I.5 ft this model fitted my specs. We are planning on taking off in 2 years and it looks like it will take that long to get the boat ready. I love the aft cabin.i hear so many owners of large boats looking forward to when they can go sailing after all the work is done and the upkeep money is made and the systems are fixed... draws 7.mostly making it completely watertight and modenizing some of the running gear.it's nothing to pull up the anchor and go sailing. Maint. i am a very organized person and i love small spaces Reply With Quote Not sure what happened there. after being a "sneakaboard" for 2 years. Fair winds and have a great weekend! . I could be paying off a 5 acre 4 bedroom house in North Carolina. Someone previously said the life is not for everyone. Legal livaboard status is not easy to get and I consider myself lucky to have it. a separate galley. We live in the SF bay area so the weather is good although the cool nights can be a challenge. huge salon and a work shop with a washer/dryer and freezer..has three staterooms.simplicity.. and I love the peace that comes with living in the marina.. An electric banket is a great addition but don't forget the warm slippers.... Craig & I share a 47' Vagabond and we love it! The space! Looking to embark on our sailing dream in 2009. the deck space is huge.. and the lack of rolling at anchor and flat sailing characteristics make for a very stable home..but it's not for everyone.
We've been out for two weeks now and it really depends on what you do... if you anchor out and eat on your boat the expenses are none... going to a marina will run you anywhere from .70 cents to three dollars a foot, plus electricity, eating at restaurants normal spending at stores, etc.... you can fit a cruise to any budget... but a budget is a MUST... no what you have and what you can spend, then adjust.... alway have a "kitty" for the unexpected.. We just had to do some minor repairs and thankfully met some fellow sailors who helped us... Otherwise it could have been quite expensive... Good luck!!!! We moved aboard Dec. 2006. Great life! Jeanneau 42.1 (40'). Our blog. http://travels-of-sv-far-niente.blogspot.com/ We live on a Taswell 58 - 6 months on the Chesapeake, 6 months in the Caribbean. It's tough but someone has to do it. My wife and I live aboard and cruise the East Coast and Caribbean. Our boat is a Valiant 40, and she's been completely comfortable and safe for the eight years we've lived on her.
I have been living on my 32' O'day 322 for six months now and love it. When getting into this, I thought I would have to buy at least a 36 footer. The 32' O'day works just fine. It has a nice big queen berth in the aft behind the galley that is enclosed with door, hanging lockers and drawers. The head is large and the shower area is plenty big enough making showers effortless. Ike destroyed our facilaties and I have been forced to use my boat for all things and I am so lucky to have bought this model. I ran away screaming last October, bought a 76 year old 39' cutter, & have been living aboard since. The boat is dirt simple. DC electricity...no refrigeration...hand pump water. I sailed her from Onset Mass. down to Cobb Island & now living aboard in a marina til spring. Love the peace& tranquilliy, the chores, & the projects. I'm not going back. We live on a 43 young sun. We are a family of 5 and seem to have plenty of room. The center cockpit gives us a nice aft cabin and seperation of space. Only thing I dislike is the narrow sidedecks. I have lived on my Challenger 32 sloop for 4 years, very spacious for a sailboat, also lived on a Challenger 35 ketch for 8 years before that, no difference in interior space, the boat has everything I could wish for regarding comfort and sailing ability. The boat willl be ready to sail this spring, only a roller furling left to buy, after replacing and refurbishing everything from the water system to the mast. Spent a few k but only paid 11k for the boat so she's worth around what a decent one goes for now, but her monetary value is secondary to the utility she gives me. The livaboard way of life is the closest I'll ever get to true independence, and the beauty of the West coast as my backdrop makes me really appreciate what I have, specially at this time of year. Only
advice I have is don't skimp on the boat's needs, it is your foundation for everything else and worth the investment to support a lifestyle that, thank God, is not for everyone. If you live frugally, like me, and have no sea anchors... wife &/or children, then a 30' er is a good choice. If you're new to sailing, have no money, or don't care about how popular your boat ranks, then get a cheap, diesel auxillary, sailboat. I sail/liveaboard a Lancer 30, they're a dime-a-dozen and easy to sail single-handers. I believe that you will find a marina to be the most liveable option -showers, bathrooms, electricity, fresh water, internet access, easy access to supplies, sociability with other sailors, for reasonable yearly rates. Transient daily rates are outrageous though. Cruising is a parttime affair for most liveaboards in my experience. I lived aboard a Pearson 367 Cutter rig in St Thomas, US Virgin Islands for 2 years and now that I am back in the states I am looking at a potential 92' Hunter 30 to live on. We live aboard a 1978 S2 9.2c (30') sloop. Two adults and a cat. I've been living aboard her since 2003. No complaints. We love her.
I am in the process of restoring/moving aboard my new to me 36 pearson pilothouse! At 27 and not wanting to settle in one place I found the next best thing to a house... a PILOTHOUSE! Lots of storage and living space. Reply With Quote
Marjorie and I (and two cats)have been living aboard our Endeavour 32 for a couple years at a marina. We have never felt like we needed more boat, even with the only quarter berth dedicated to kitty litter. (With a full length curtain and vigilance over the box, there are no smell problems.) There is something interesting about how a boat can seem smaller in a marina than at anchor, as well. If the boat starts to seem small, we take it out to anchor and the problem is solved. I had a friend living aboard a Catalina 22 for a while(he was over six feet tall) with a bulldog without any worries about size. It all depends on your perspective and how you live your life. I find our 32 is perfect for us. We have plenty of space and Marjorie can still handle the (oversized) ground tackle by hand. The only thing I miss is a dedicated shower compartment…which doesn‟t matter all that much since we have dockside facilities. I don‟t miss it nearly enough to even consider another boat though. My wife and I are new live aboards. We moved to Hawaii in late Nov bought a 42 sloop. We learn something new every day. What a great adventure I am living on a 24' Islander Bahama sloop. It's great. I am replacing the rig with galvanized, revamping the sail wardrobe, and going cruising! I live on a NorSea 27 and I LOVE the boat!!! She is fantastic! I'm not cruising much now. Just finished a winter in the NE. But I don't live in a marina either. A mooring for this month. Next month..anchor. I wouldn't change a thing, except to do it sooner. I would buy the same boat.
Hey, when will you post the results to your survey? Teresa i have been living aboard ever since 1990--long story--i own 2 sailboats at present-an ericson 35mII on which i lived for 4 yrs until i got this formosa 41 i live on board and refit now in preparation for cruising--i moved out of the ericson because i was always stepping on the kat as he ate his foods---i no longer step on him and he loves his bigger home......repowering this week!!!!!will be out cruising asap--have sailed other peoples boats --much coastal cruising inn kalifornikation--some cruising in caribean----will be taking my formosa to caribean and louseyanna....some east coast..... We've lived at anchor for weeks at a time - while working, not cruising. Lots of drawbacks, like no air conditioning - but the boat points into the wind (unless the current is strong) so you usually have a fresh breeze. You have to pick your spot to avoid the gassholes with the big wakes. Most of the time the seclusion is very nice. We love each other and even more, we enjoy each others company. I wouldn't want to do it by myself. There are a couple of guys in our marina (each on his own boat) who prefer living at a mooring. In the winter, they have to come in to the docks. One always gets a T out on the end so he still has his view of the water. Both actually prefer their moorings. A lot of this depends on the mooring contract. IF the marina owns the mooring, and you pay the marina the mooring fees, then you probably have some rights to use their dinghy dock, showers, and parking lot... but it will be spelled out in the contract more likely than not. If the mooring isn't owned by the marina, chances are pretty good that you don't have any rights to use any of their facilities. Most moorings are rented seasonally, at least in New England. Getting a mooring from the city might save you some money on the front end, but it would cost you more in the long run, in terms of convenience. A seasonal mooring is probably $800 or so from a marina, but generally would have amenities like a launch service or use of a dinghy dock, water, showers, laundry and such.
all! I'm an amateur filmmaker, and this thread is really funny to me. Ya see, I built an R/C camera pod that hangs from a kite and downlinks video to the ground for control purposes last year. Flys off a medium size para-kite. I'm upgrading the Pod to HD video this year, and I'm taking it with me cruising next. My boat is beginning to resemble a "mini" Calypso. Anyone here familiar with Yves Gélinas, and his wonderful movie "With Jean-du-Sud Around the world"? He flew a 16mm camera on a kite back in the 70s, and brought home some awesome footage...UNDER SAIL!!! There is a whole following in kite and balloon photography, and there was even
i am 6'1" and sail a Jeanneau DS40 single handed and the head room is great - have had folks in excess of 6'5' in her good luck but look at deck saloon boats chuck and soulmates
. But is you have your heart set on a new motor sailor check out the Lancer 45' it looks like a nice boat for the money.have the 2 cabin version as i wanted the extra storage space when i started cruising .solid and rigid and very roomy with a lot of storage space . Most of the motor sailers that I see do a lot of motoring.she is shoal draft and thus a bit heavier as i plan to spend time in the bahamas .did look at a bavaria and bennie before i bought the jeanneau the bavaria was a nice boat but did not seem to have the quailty of the jeanneau nor the strength the bennies are becoming cheaper as it seems they are trying to hold the prices level while cost continue to rise . I friend has a Lancer and he bought it for about $75000. that Beneauteu (or how ever you spell it) has decided that they want to cut the quality and the price and sell more boats . I just looked on Yacht world at the Lancers. I measured my Jeannueau DS40 -. It does appear.i bought a jeanneau ds40 new and simply love her .it just did not seem like a well put together boat and while sailing on one did not seem as tight and rigid as a jeanneau i just hope bennie keeps their hands off jeanneau and let them do what they do best make great reasonably priced sailboats that can take you anywhere just my thougths The Wauquiez Pretorian 35 and Wauquiez Hood 38 both have 6'4" headroom throughout the entire boat. from what i read on the Jeanneau board on another site. The folks at Jeanneua know how to build a great blue water boat that is solid and well designed. Some have the mast cut down or removed so they can be used more like a trawler. Vee berths on both boats are very large and spacious.she is 80" .clean lines and easy handling there were some 50' jeanneaus in this years cross atlantic rally the more i sail her the more i like her .the classic American business model of high sales at lower prices with cheaper parts and higher total profit . I would think that the reason for this is because they don't sail all that well.did put a lot of extras on her for cruising now as a full time cruiser i really appreciate her more . If that is the case you may want to keep your present boat. a few years ago and it looks like a very nice boat for that money. you can even get a flybridge model motorsailor. They are more money than I thought but they are a nice boat.those math challenged that is 6' 8" for those less there is lots of upper head room One of the nice things about the Jeanneau was that Beneauteu kept their hands off until this year. I have been cruising and living aboard my Hood 38 for some time now and find her more comfortable everyday.under sail she is quick and as i sometime single hand her with all lines leading aft a breeze to hand .ie market share and disposable products but the older Jeanneaus are truely great boats.
Just one point of view. We like sailing while cruising so we sail. 40-50ft trawlers that only burn 2-5gph while making 7-9 knots. Depending on where you are going and for how long. And these low hp engines are quite fuel efficient. Having said that we try to sail as much as possible but we still end up motoring a fair amount. their speed is the same as any true sailboat of the same weight and dimensions.. as often pointed out. we have many friends who motor and they still have fun and enjoy the lifestyle. niether motor well nor sail well.less noise to have to tolerate for less time. Since they are displacement hulls. you will only have the remaining days allowed.. Most sailboats these days have engines matched to push them beyond their top hull speed. The greater the displacement or the more the desire for speed.noise is noise and it is relentless if you need to go long distance. The KEY is to leave but NOT return prior to the end of the previously approved end date. While English is the Official language in BVI. a trawler does not get up to the sound level of a planing powerboat.I am a catamaran sailor so I am biased and almost always recommend sailing over motorcruisers. If you have a 30 day entrance and leave prior to the full 30 days AND return prior to the end of that 30 days. Yes. for as long as I want it to. I hope this helps. If you like sailboats look at them otherwise look a trawlers. you will often have difficulty in talking with Customs and Immigrations Officers who can often be difficult to understand. A true sailor (vs a motorsailor) will give you more drive up wind and off the wind so that you can reach max hull speed using the sails and be able to sail to most of the points on a compass.... Just remember that the cost of the fuel in a sailboat is all up front in the sails. Thus you require less fuel and . She will also give you much more comfort in a sea way (if designed peoperly) with a nicer motion you will come to be spoiled by.000 lbs 38 footer at 8 knots anytime I want it too. Motorsailors. the fuel usage at these rates may be more acceptable. One of the things I have learned that there are alot of big. etc. I quite frankly hate it.. I would think you would want to look more towards true sailors. but still.we could motor for a lot of years for the price of a set of sails on our boat! It is my personal bias but I simply cannot stand the noise of engines droning on and on. My 47hp Perkins 4-108 will push my 22.. Hatteras. Having a well balanced 3 blade prop will allow you to motor smoothly for as long as you need or wish. . the more noise... So. Since we have been in the caribe we learned that most cruisers spend a lot of time motoring. Defever... I believe mine is about 1gal/hr at 6-7knots. this narrows that fuel expense gap..
That is a drawback. Thomas has interesting places to go on land but not one of my fav boating locations for several reasons. The Spanish Virgin Islands are also a day sail away from St. Thomas. One. anchorage to anchorage (mooring to mooring) in hours or less. It does take some time to get to know "where" to shop and eat to avoid the prices and hassles of the "tourist" areas. I cannot find anything in "Reality Check" that says that St. I know literally hundreds of Ex-Pats/ cruisers who spend most of their time in BVI and they either have the residency approval or make the monthly trips to other locations with an eye on the last date approved for being in BVI and not returning prior to that date or have plans to re-exit and return after it has passed. etc.again because there are fewer charterers. PriceSmart warehouse foods. But for a live-aboard cruiser it is a positive. Just don't be shocked when you arrive to find you have a 30 day limit unless you have made some prior arrangements for a longer stay and have documentations with you on arrival. You will probably still get the 30 approval at entrance then have to go to Road Town to get any changes. but you have to have a good reason for the 2nd one. Add in that you have normal "US Post Office" for mail and packages and there are lots of pluses. James has a nice anchorage and St. St. For actual sailing.don't hesitate to change instructors or even schools if you feel incompatible and are not enjoying/learning to the maximum. They want you to spend money but they don't want to have to support you. is really isn't for most of us. What they are doing is attempting to prevent "dead beats" from becoming island bums and causing a drain on local services. Thomas is just as good as any BVI and you will find fewer crowded anchorages and better snorkel/diving sites . you are in the "USA" for getting work and shopping purposes (Home Depot. There are good instructors and bad instructors and most any of the schools will have . The whole grouping of the Virgins are so close together that you can sail from island to island. Thomas and the two near by islands are full of interesting places you can spend weeks visiting. It appears to be approved if your having boat repairs and parts are due in or if a medical reason prevents you from leaving. Because the numbers of charterers in the BVI's is significantly higher than the USVI's there are comparatively very few charter operations/sailing schools in the USVI. Martin for a while then return to the BVI for another 30 days and repeat as often as you wish but I do think a total of 180 days may be the max in one year without a formal visa or residency approval. St. ** The key to being successful in a sailing school is . While this may seem like a problem. I know you can get two 30 day extensions if you go to Road Town and apply.).no moorings. And many more free anchorages . the island of St. Thomas is not a great place for boating? I have been and spent a lot of time in all the Virgins and really like St.Almost all cruisers stay about 30 days then go to another island such as USVI or St. John has many places to keep you occupied for a few days/ weeks or longer.
103. Looks like Ill just be doing a temporary stay at the BVI ( Sebastian hotel on the west end) or camping at Saint Johns untill I finish the ASA courses (101. Go Back Cruisers & Sailing Forums > Scuttlebutt > Destinations > Atlantic Ocean & the Caribbean Reload this Page Tortola . 05:11 Delecto Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11 Thanks for the all the advice guys. Each ASA level is separate from the next level and completion of any level is transferable to another different ASA school. .104 with the likelihood of doing others). After that I'm not sure what to do. demand a different instructor or change schools. Calendar Today's Reply Page 2 of 2 < 1 2 Rate Thread Display Modes #16 Thread Tools Old 05-07-2009..both.. You are paying good money to learn and if you are not learning.Living Accomodations User Name Remember Me? Password Register Links Gallery FAQ Members List Posts Search Search Forums Show Threads Show Posts Tag Search Advanced Search Google Custom Search Search Links Advanced Search Search Gallery Advanced Search Go to Page.
Each ASA level is separate from the next level and completion of any level is transferable to another different ASA school.again because there are fewer charterers. That is a drawback. PriceSmart warehouse foods. Because the numbers of charterers in the BVI's is significantly higher than the USVI's there are comparatively very few charter operations/sailing schools in the USVI.Reality Check says that Saint Thomas is not a great place for boating.mostly in Grenada Boat: Gulfstar 53 . ** The key to being successful in a sailing school is . any suggestions out there? Thanks Delecto is offline Reply With Quote Delecto View Public Profile Find More Posts by Delecto Old 05-07-2009. Add in that you have normal "US Post Office" for mail and packages and there are lots of pluses. then shopping around for a boat to buy (preferably on the west coast. I will be paying cash so I dont want to be doing any flying or a lot of driving). Thomas is not a great place for boating? I have been and spent a lot of time in all the Virgins and really like St.no moorings. .don't hesitate to change instructors or even schools if you feel incompatible and are not enjoying/learning to the maximum. There are good instructors and bad instructors and most any of the schools will have both. you are in the "USA" for getting work and shopping purposes (Home Depot. And many more free anchorages . why is that? Do they have places that rent out boats for licensed individuals? Like if I join the Yacht club. So basically spending a month or so in Tortola taking all the courses I can. It does take some time to get to know "where" to shop and eat to avoid the prices and hassles of the "tourist" areas. Thomas is just as good as any BVI and you will find fewer crowded anchorages and better snorkel/diving sites . the island of St. One. Do I have other options. would I have access to member boats? Is there anything of that sort on Saint Thomas? If that's not the case then I'll be forced to go back to the states. which is fine because that's where I intend on buying my boat anyways.Osiris Posts: 80 I cannot find anything in "Reality Check" that says that St. etc.). anchorage to anchorage (mooring to mooring) in hours or less. But for a live-aboard cruiser it is a positive. You are paying good money to learn and if you are not learning. The whole grouping of the Virgins are so close together that you can sail from island to island. 06:59 #17 osirissail Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: onboard in the Caribbean . Thomas. demand a different instructor or change schools. For actual sailing.
etc. I had time to explore and get to know the island culture behind the obvious tourist front. Since then I have had occasion to spend considerable time .just to clarify that I wasn't making it up. I had several cruising friends working there for the season to refill their cruising kitty. What still eludes me is whether any of the marina/clubs have memberships where boats are loaned out to its members.. Having to wait many weeks for all the packages to arrive.osirissail is offline Reply With Quote osirissail View Public Profile Find More Posts by osirissail Old 05-07-2009. In addition. St.Osiris Posts: 80 I stand corrected (well more like sitting at my lapbook) .a month and more at a time on my own boat. I only know of commercial "bareboat" charter companies in St Thomas. Delecto is offline Reply With Quote Delecto View Public Profile Find More Posts by Delecto Old 05-07-2009. .mostly in Grenada Boat: Gulfstar 53 .. Thomas Yacht Club. I just got in yesterday and didnt have much time to poke around the island so today I plan on calling and/or stopping by the Crown Bay Marina.not very nice and the BVI's were so much more exciting to a new charterer. 20:09 #19 osirissail Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: onboard in the Caribbean . 07:40 #18 Delecto Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11 Quote: Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post St. Red Hook Marina. My primary reason for returning up island to St Thomas was to take advantage of the no-hassle Postal System without having to deal with customs agents and fees when in a foreign country.but many years ago I held the same opinion of St Thomas . Thomas has interesting places to go on land but not one of my fav boating locations for several reasons. When you learn of the "other side" of a place you get a deeper impression of the place. Anyways you make a lot of great points about Saint Thomas that I haven't considered. There are about 4 or 5 for sailboats and the rates vary from US$400/day to US$2000/week. And you .
. That is the "kicker" . but if you get 2 or 3 couples (4 to 6 friends) together and split the costs it becomes a very economical and fun way to see the islands compared to staying in a hotel/resort. But who knows.getting a sailing resume which is a listing of places." Your plan to check out the various operations around the island is probably the best choice. the rates for chartering out of USVI are cheaper than the BVI's but that may have changed as the number of outfits has decreased over the years.must be already "bareboat certified" by a reputable school . Google St Thomas bareboat charters and you will find the locations of the other places. Bareboat chartering is not cheap. then to Charlotte Amalie and French Town with CYOA. One level lead to the other and in a few years I could rent from 1st level operations especially in the "off seasons. meaning substantially less than a comparable fiberglass vessel. One of the advantages of steel seems to be hull strength. run down boats and weren't too particular about to whom they rented. and I would . Florida I rented boats from the school where I got my bareboat certification. I do not think that there are any local co-op type clubs in the islands only commercial outfits in the normal bareboat business. However.have a sailing resume. On St Thomas there are "jitney" buses that circle the island. advice. boats. I will give you my advice. if you can find a steel vessel that is in good shape (yes. Living Aboard. Where do you start? After I got a "bareboat certification" from ASA in Miami. That is all it is. with a solid (not cored) hull is your lowest maintenance option. But it's probably safe to say that a fiberglass boat. THere are a lot of state parks and lots of places that have not and will not be developed. but again. After that I branched out to 3rd level charter operations who had the older.. One of these days Castro will kick over. you need to find a surveyor who is a specialist with those kind of boats. Normally. They are obvious with their canvas top and bench seats on top of a flat bed truck frame. $3 from Red Hook to Charlotte Amalie last time I was there. From Red Hook the buses go by Benner Bay with some marinas and charter outfits.. which is an easy run). and companies that you already chartered from. Ferro-cement is another option worth considering. The wildlife is great and you are at the gateway to most of the world (including the Bahamas. FL Contrary to the many negative comments you will hear me (and others) say about living aboard in Fl. but that is not a primary consideration as you won't be going offshore any time soon. Costs were about US$2 per half island.and . the state does promote boating and cruising. It is a nice place to live aboard. get a specialist type surveyor to go over the boat thoroughly and the hull thickness can be measured accurately) AND priced right. it might be a viable option for you. I think for your intended use fiberglass is by far the best option.
finding a place to put any boat is tough (esp liveaboard). The cost for the month is $15 USD.Caribbean Yachts . There are yachts for sale there also.Texas. Our dream is also to retire "on the water". Louisiana. Easy access to about anything you would want. But damn. I do not think they are a good choice if you are primaarily going to be around Fl. I have survived 4 of them. two hours by motor before I could raise a sail. Regardless. I did loose my wind generator in Katrina. Of course the gulf coast has hurricanes. If you would like. We were just in Luperon D. but if you just watch and prepare. See Luperon Boat Yacht and Property Sales . it is a nice place to boat. plenty of protected bays. The Boat: I like catamarans a lot (don't let SD hear me say that). which he could be). The area is hurricane prone and there are storms every day it seems in the summer. There is a protected bay where many sailboats and the other kind are mooring. The cost of living is extremely low there too.Dominican Republic Check out my pictures at Picasa Web Albums . you should look into a production type of boat. I will answer them as best as I can. may I invite you to a raft up here on the coast. Getting a part for the boat. it is the area.. Nice N Easy.R.. well almost. THey are roomy and I think they are safe. I lived aboard in far S.. SHHHHHH not too loud! Don't want to have to compete with too many folks for the space !! We don't have the "cachet" of some places but it is a fine part of the country. Fl is not the best place for Cats.. In addition. it was 30 miles to a decent grocery store. why not park it in NC or Texas where the slippage is vastly less expensive? Also realize that many insurance companies will not allow you to keep the boat in FL during hurricane season unnattended. Lots to like there. Weather is not quite as nice. and you will really be limited. Finding a place to put your boat is the biggest. that is what they were built for.:Luperon 2007 I am not saying this is the best place but it is one of many. I would highly recommend the gulf coast area. If you have some more questions. A bunch of us are going to have a big raft up the weekend of March 20. in March. primarily very inexpensive to live. honestly. is mostly an inconvenience. drop in and check us out.Jamie Miller . Now. However. let me know. Lots of wonderful sailing here. about 25 miles east of New Orleans. When I first retired. Mississippi or Alabama. Insurance is the most expensive of anywhere in the country (to the best of my knowledge). If you are going to be checking out Fl. there are many hurdles.. They have a shallow draft which opens up many areas that are not open to others.. I now live on the east end of lake Ponchatrain. Nice to sail across to New Orleans for some fine dining and . Couldn't agree more. It will serve you well anywhere in this hemisphere from Canada to Brazil. now restrict it further with that floating condo. well.. Since you are primarily cruising the US coast and islands. don't even go there. You will be make welcome. with almost no boat damage.imagine our govt's policy towards them will change (if his brother is not worse. The regulations and difficulty of developing more land for boat use (in addition to the large number of boaters) as really made slips difficult to find and expensive. but much less costly than Fla. Year round sailing. Wonderful weather.. Plenty of sailboats. This is about as good as it gets. As far as where to put it. They are comfortable and will allow many amenities. And lots of really nice friendly people. like a Catalina 350 and up. many parts are inaccessible to large boats and the water is very shallow. except. and the first round is on me. It is not the boat. As I said before. if you are not F/T Fl.
5 was in the country for sale. Mexico: "See there. Late Summer is T-Storm season. There are spots of the high priced stuff. I have year round protected sailing on the harbor and blue water sailing in the gulf out Boca Grande pass or take the ICW to Ft. I hate putting those limits on things but it is a fact of life. on a trailer. especially afternoons. At the time I could tell you where every h28. We have the largest racing community in the area and at least 3 cruising clubs that are all very active. but I really have to be in the US and fairly close to some sort of airport.. however it caters to people from all over the world.. on Charlotte Harbor.. Perhaps better. about equal. in some ways. We have multimillion dollar sailing and motor yachts here from all over the world. so you want to take care at that time of year... The 270's too.fine sailing. but a few folks in this marina do.. places can be found that are reasonable. This is the time you spend in the water.. but many reasonable places. You would not believe how many boats are on trailers here.. But not seeing a lot of inlet ports easterly of new Orleans area. My boat was trailered from CO by the former owner.. Happy today the marina here got a wireless connection working so I don't have to go to the cafe to use the computer! North Carolina might be a good choice. when it is much too hot and humid. The gulf side of US sounds more like the right place to be. Some compare it to what you would see and experience in Europe and the Mediterranean. Beneteau 31 on a custom made triple axle aluminum trailer. four-five days to the Yucatan and about the same to Key West. have now moved down here to cruise and race. Yes it is an expat community.. Any ideas of points of entry along the coast? I dreamed about living aboard and living the life so to speak but my spouse wanted a "home base". not as unbearable in the summer time either I have looked at Mexico and sounds like fun. snorkeling.. This is from a friend of mine who keeps an H28.. . Seems like the coast from Applachicola to New Orleans is fine for finding a place to live aboard.. it seems like. He put it up for sale in San Carlos and I found it on Craig's list after about a year o f searching the net. but this was getting too expensive.September. We chose Punta Gorda FL. San Carlos is sort of an unbelievable place.. not as subject to hurricane damage as Texas. the Greek Isles. and still have access to the gulf. See the ones around Lake Pontchartrain. almost unbearable... diving and sleeping under the A/C. Florida. 14 couples from our marina in Il. except the land/sea cycles. etc. I have heard that some doctor owns it. I don't live aboard.the bug has bitten you. however some of us diehards go anyway and tough it out. Read it and weep. about 6 foot draft is a practical max. Not much wind. This turned out to be the best of all worlds. as an inland sea with the conditions. Only thing I've noted is that our water seems to be a little thin. Louisiana. in San Carlos. Right next to me in the dry storage is a brand new. Myers or Naples.5. because all I see lately is the empty trailer. The Grossmans had that hydraulic lift specifically design for launching boats to 75' in length from a shallow ramp. I even tried to buy one in VA and have a trailer made for it. The season is all parts of the year except the months of June . I heard someone say sailing here is much like Lake Erie. I think it is out on the 'Sea" cruising now. I think the key is the Marina San Carlos: I attach pics of the launch of the Caliente and another 40' sailboat. I can be in the Keys in 24 hours or as far north as Tarpon Springs. It has reall been the best idea ever. both good and bad. Marina San Carlos is a world class Marina.. or out to the barrier islands for longer trips.
So the name of the game is to get a boat on a trailer. because warms waters breed 4 X that nasty growth. If you are looking for something classy. expecially the sailor's forum are expecially interesting. world country with archaic methods and laws. I made the trip from Toronto to The Bahamas. The other day I met a guy from Switzerland who bought his 65' trawler here. Some things in Mexico are bargains: especially labor. We have hundreds of people living on sailboats down here. and for convenience and comfort (check out my pics) I really like my stink pot boat. nothing classier in my humble opinion.com. the west coast of Mexico. so you don't have to deal with slip fees and bottom jobs. Key West is the only place to Harbor in South Florida. The best free place to learn about San Carlos is the following website:http://www. Wes.azimutyachts. See if you can find anything on moorings around Christmas Tree Island in Key West. with a month free for advance payment for one year. You can read accounts of cruises throughout the Sea. Azimut has some great power boats that look like extravagant European mansions on water. Bottom jobs are brutal.600 boats in the storage at different times.50 per month. there are a bunch of great people down this way who won't steer ya wrong! Best of luck to you! I had a dream once and I was thinking of a 32-40' sloop.50 to one Dollar.000 when I . as the state room is quite large.) They even mention in many news articles on that boat that it could be a very comfortable live aboard. Because of the real estate depression. They had no complaints so far. get Gerry Cunniham's Cruising Guides to the Sea of Cortez. Check out the Azimut 62S at www. not to mention some awesome power behind them. Hey guys! I recently met a couple with a Hunter 55 and they gave me a tour. South America and other points of interest.well can't say I have personal hands on experience. and you get Key West as icing on the cake! Wes. It can sometimes drive you crazy!! There is a very active Yacht Brokerage.com/ There are many links to other really good sites. I live on a motoryacht and love it. I just really love wood boats. My dry storage fees are: $62. Sea of Cortez Yachts. I don't think you will go wrong down here. " Hi Roberto! Well. Owning a boat in Mexico is about half of that in the USA. of course anything that uses the aft space of the vessel is better than sedan bridge for living aboard! For me I currently live on a 42' Chris Craft Conqueror. If you travel with an animal however. Go on their website.5 Mil condo on the waterfornt in San Diego costs $400K and is probably newer and better. the best live aboard.) Currently. but just from looking at different boats in the market you can't go wrong with a Hunter 45 or 55 center cockpit( i cannot remember which one it is. A 1. it goes on the hard on jackstands. but usually they look more comfy the larger you go.400 on the water at moorings or slips. both sides of Baja. There are 2 marinas. the exchange rate for Pesos is as high as 14. There are probably 400 . I still kick myself for not buying a 34' Hunter for $3. check out wally sail and power boats at www.. another 300 . On a side note of personal taste. I have lived on both sail and power.com. here. No you don't need any certifiction.. I think you are on the right track. real estate now is at an all time low..sancarlosmexico. The one thing you do not ever forget is that Mexico is a 3rd. roomy AND gorgeous is all I can say! They weren't liveaboards. Ken is right about boats being cheaper in The Keys. It is a secure area. The forums. tho not as good. If the boat is big. rent and food. They are unbelievably detailed accounts of a lifetime of cruising and documenting life at sea on the Sea of Cortez..wally. All of his boats are listed on Yachworld. ( Also Charlie's Charts. you do need a permit. If you want further difinitive info.. There are some nice Catamarans out there that look like amazing live-aboards. without them. No sailor would leave the shore. but I know they spend weeks at a time on her.
I have traveled all over Florida looking for a live aboard marina and this is the best. .. Good Luck! I know of a Marina on Tampa Bay that is perfect for living aboard and it is not outragousley priced. The moorings are cheap ($120/mo. Regatta Pointe Marina. There really is no place quite like it. shower facilities if you need them . I wouldn't give much credence to the naysayers (you'll see what I mean when you visit the site). Here's the web address for info on all marinas in that area. small town place with wonderful.one key up from Key West.Deep water slips and access right out to the Atlantic. For my money Boot Key Harbor is the safest place in The Keys to hole up for a while.. water for your tanks.I love it here. For the hard core sailor this might be too many amennties but for someone just looking for a diffrent life style it is great.within bike distance.. They are currently renovating the fitness center and laundry facilitlies.Where I am was Mayberry Marina until June when Andy Griffith sold it to Old Island. I lived on the city operated Mooring field for quite some time 3 years ago..and good neighbors. Tierra Verde.not as colorul though! Another suggestion for South Florida is Key West. and it's cheaper than Key West .trash dumpsters..it really doesn't matter what you have. they have a beautiful dingy dock.had the chance. It is located in Palmetto Fl. Theyre really cleaning it up and making changes. There are a dozen or so liveaboard marinas in the Tampa bay area. As for the boat. Unlike a lot of live aboard marinas in florida this one is well maintained with friendly staff always around to help and attened to immediate issues.yes. Or you can cheaply hire a local to drop in a mooring and fight out the parking and dingy space at the local docks. They also have a wonderful boaters lounge. St. I've been on my 27' Hunter for 6yrs and stayed thru every storm that came by. the pump out boat comes once a week. Cal Dan @305-896-7799 There are afew other marinas down here that allow L/As and the prices vary there are even still some places you can pull your boat and do your bottom. Take a look at their website. Waste removal will be your issue in that case. its a pretty safe place to be. It's also a good place to stage off for The Bahamas.parking. My 2 Cents: Tampa Rocks! Tampa hasn't scored a direct hurricane hit in 50+years. Old Island Marina on Stock Island. More important to get a boat that will not break the budget and that you feel a connection to... Key West has mooring available from the city. It's a beautiful. I believe the rates vary between $10 a foot to $14 depending on which dock you choose. the boat has very little to do with the lifestyle you choose. because all boats are comprimises of one sort or another. You can still anchor out there but space is getting tight because the City is putting mooring balls everywhere for which you have to pay $150/mth.bathrooms... there are a lot of pissed off locals down there who resent The City of Marathon for regulating the harbor. laid back people who really know their boats. Poor dude had the Keys Disease (AKA wet brain) real bad and just wanted out! There are even better deals in the BVI or USVI (People either lose their nerve or run out of money and abandon ship)! Before going to The Bahamas I lived in Boot Key Harbor in Marathon for a while..I dont know how much or who to call but if anyone is interested I can find out. Blind Pass.water. Bringing you all the comforts of home at a marina.$12 a ft & metered electric. garbage removal. security. Dockage rates run $13-$15 per foot per month.. check the NOAA hurricane history.even parking for your car. Pete Municipal to name a few. Get their before winter sets in as they always fill up when the wind pipes up. in 2003).even parking. FYI.
I want to talk with Yordy a bit longer. Of course it isn't always like this. And off he goes to bust his ass and be a hero. Another good source of info is Southwinds magazine (southwindssailing. but he kept the pressure off and was able to survive when the fishing dropped off a few seasons later. She was fine. Her swimming lessons started at the age of three weeks. don't neglect the safety of your son. and re-baited before the line comes taut and pulls the next trap back over the stern into the ocean..com) for listings.. If dad needs a private office and mom needs her sewing room. cleaned. The shallow water allows them to haul and set a trawl at the same time. Yordy gives me twelve lobster tails out of sheer kindness and generosity. wahoo you would only need a 2 or 3 bedroom and watch that little one on the water .. It is a chore to get ice and food supplies on almost a daily basis. He could slip overboard in the blink of an eye. Lake Mead. He and his gorgeous Costa Rican wife and their two lively young children have just moved into their brand new threebedroom house that Yordy is finishing himself on Big Coppitt Key. Yordy and two other men crew the boat. crawfish fill the crate." Yes. useless. he denied greed and refused to over-leverage himself the way a lot of guys did. I would say the bigger the better. Your life style does. There is nothing like boat life. "Brah.. On this day we leave to the dock before 7AM. With the sun still crawling over the horizon. Good luck. He operates entirely under one general premise: keep things simple and work like a mofo. but today.. ARRGH Matey! A sickness exists in the Keys called Keys Disease where the notable laissez-faire attitude of the Keys allows a lazy person to become a sloppy.and then there are the Guavaweeen and Gasparilla festivals. Generallly speaking. On this day we're heading to the dock around 1:30 PM with 600 pounds of crawfish on board. unless you are very rich. He owns a boat and runs a small business.non moving type houseboat with sewer & electric). He made less money in the short run. unproductive member of the community." Of course. you might as well forget boat life. they likey eatey the longosta.. Enough line is tied between the traps to allow it to be emptied.. It's almost acceptable to drink and do not much else. He takes time off in the summer to spend with his family and work on his boat and his gear. (disregard if you mean a permanent . It takes less than twenty minutes to reach the first line of traps. Yes.. Meanwhile. the next trap has been pulled to the rail and awaits tending. Everyone I know who has done this all say they had a fantastic time except for??? And they are really glad to get home sweet home (on land). please. When the industry was really booming several years back. . But this is where Yordy's philosophy prevails. or Lake Havasu or your favorite wet spot AND then post us back. commercial fishing for lobster and stone crab from August through May. I fished my one year old daughter out of the drink once after being distracted for only a moment. Trust me on this one. a sly little smile crosses his face when I mention it. to absorb some more of his vibrant spirit. All of this means that the crew can pull over 500 pots in about six hours. Living on a house boat is a dream come true . they do.. As one trap reaches the rail. its better than having beachfront property no grass to mow and NO Property Taxes . only thirteen years removed. Size doesn't matter a whole lot. . In fact. and. I needey go ang workey on my house. the previous trap is pushed off the stern. We get back to the dock just after 2PM. He's one of the few operations left with a firm foothold in the industry. Living aboard is good stuff. "All ah den rich people. Yordy is living the American Dream better than a lot of Americans I know. The price is just over $7 a pound right now. just living the American Dream.. Go rent a house boat for 10 days to 2 weeks on Lake Powell. I don't know if risking your life to escape social oppression makes one immune to such a sickness.com) which is totally free to download.Check out (marinapal. but he has other plans.. Even the encroaching condominiums and resorts that presumable threaten his existence don't faze the kid.
Oh . you can't buy much stuff because you don't have space leaving you to concentrate on other things that are important to you. It just intails a lot of responsibillty on your hubbie. Many people live on a boat for many different reasons. yet still have plenty of money. It was a real challenge attimes offshore but by and large pretty easy. Finding a gas dock that is on the way. I would often have to roll it up then pull out the storm main.ha ha gas will kill you $$$$ Don't get me wrong . Like getting to that certain canyon or harbor before dark. Of course there are some drawbacks with living on a boat.to last you a lifetime. I like the 4 Bouy House Boats 40 . I usually kept the speed to less . get back to nature and enjoy your life.you say "but I have a generator" . But then cleaning out the excess also clears your soul. Using mostly headsails on furlers or socks is easy. The boat weighted only 1000 lbs and could flip so it required alot of attention... The rocking of the boat will gently rock you to sleep and you will sleep better breathing the fresh air that surrounds the water that you are sleeping on. or attending a cookout thrown together by your neighbors at the last minute. I often sailed it with one reef in or no main at all and just used my head sails. Instead of shopping you may find yourself visiting with people that live beside you. It had no autohelm or rollerfurling or lazyjacks. it has its own way of calming and soothing you. I singlehanded my stilletto 27 for 5 years for a total of about 5 months in the icw and offshore of fl and the Bahamas. lake or ocean is a great way to start your day. After living on a boat for awhile you will learn to enjoy free things you take pleasure in watching the sunset instead of watching television. You can save money living on a boat. I frequently sailed in 30 plus mph winds with it and the storm jib. Some people live on a boat because they love the view when they get up on the morning. they will usually include the electric and the water sometimes even cable and Internet. The main was full battened and weighted 60 lbs.75 feet Living on a boat isn't the conventional way to live but it can be interesting and fun.. If you can not afford ocean front property living on a boat can give you the same view for a lot less money. The spinaker with the sock was very easy to use compared to the main. Some people live on their boats to save money. In the mornings you are not rushed as you get up with the birds and have your morning coffee outside with nature as companion. You really can't be stressed out for long while living on a boat. There isn't as much space as your accustomed to in a house. Looking over the river. Marina fees are usually not that expensive compared to living in an apartment or a house.there are fun times and Kodak moments galore . Sleeping on a boat will be some of the best sleep that you ever had. With less things to worry about you don't have to feel clutter. and then there are some that just love the water. This will allow you to work less hours. Living on a boat can be great to save money. You will have to carefully choose what items you want to bring with you to live on a boat. some travel a few months a year.You will need a second boat for these escapades.
is still sailing having logged over 75.than 12 mph. Now I have a st Francis. From this point visibility forward and to the sides was impaired and access to the mast to raise and lower sails was difficult. Another benefit which became immediately clear was that the deckhouse could be transformed from the normal catamaran “living room” into an effective pilothouse where the boat could be safely navigated and steered. Having a solid anchoring system is paramount for a singlehandler. I plan to sail this like a big stilletto and use more headsails and keep my main usually at the first reef point. 44 which I have added a code zero on facnor furler. materials and methods into the line of Atlantic Catamarans that exist today. This gives me a larger margin of safety. How long have they been around? Chris White designed the first Atlantic Catamaran(TM) in 1983. Go to chriswhitedesigns web site. My only concern is the 15 hp yamaha engine for the dingy. I learned some tricks from 2 70 yr olds on their warram 47 which they are still actively cruising which is a very large boat. The main is 600 sqft and is in a macpac. a asymetric in a sock and it has a 120 jib on a furler and a Hank on storm jib. My approach will be to always sail her under canvased and use more headsails when possible and toss out the drogue when it gets too much. I am 47 6' 2" a d 190lbs. less than 35 ft . On smaller cats . Thanks chris v As far as Chris Whites designs go.000 thousand miles in both cruising and day charter. you can sail it like a smaller cat. At the time. On a bigger cat that is Icw friendly . Arabella. It came with the boat and I will get a smaller one as I age. The original Atlantic 50. aft pilothouse arrangement. the concept of placing the cockpit forward of the deckhouse was unknown and untried. The only concern is docking n strong winds but I will not go to a dock in those conditions but take the dingy and use jugs. the design sequence was: A50 . I have a rocna 73 lb on a new windlass. For those interested.the diesel tanks are often small so limited motoring range and more need to go to marinas. In the early 1980's all of the available cruising catamaran designs required the helmsman to be perched on the aft deck behind the deckhouse. Atlantic Catamaran FAQ What is an Atlantic Catamaran? An Atlantic Catamaran is distinguished by the center sailing cockpit. Later Atlantic cat designs were built upon the concepts pioneered in the Atlantic 50. When the cockpit was placed forward of the deckhouse complete forward visibility was restored as well as easy and safe access to all sailing controls. Chris White sought to improve the safety and utility of the cruising cat by “reversing” the normal configuration. click on custom designs/Voyager 45/photos. gradually refining the design. not all of them have forward cockpits.
In any case. It took a long time but the imitators have arrived and there are now several cats being sold with Atlantic Cat inspired forward cockpits. In the case of a low labor cost environment the bill of materials can be over 60% of the total cost to construct and there is very little that can be done to reduce the material cost without compromising the safety and durability of the boat. One requirement for patent protection is that the invention must not be “obvious”. White and is used to identify the catamarans in this design series. How much do they cost? Because my livelihood depends on having designs built at competitive prices I scour the world looking for the best quality builders at the lowest cost. One man/hour in a good shop in the USA or New Zealand is often the equivalent to two or even three man hours in other countries. Even Lagoon jumped into the act with a vestigial “cockpit” near the mast in one of their designs. I have yet to see any other design that offers the safety and versatility of the Atlantic Cat configuration. The major cost variable is the labor. At the time it seemed that anyone who spent more than an 20 minutes considering the design of a cruising catamaran would come up with this obvious solution and therefore it would have also been obvious to the Patent and Trademark Office. But the labor rate in a given location has to be viewed in the context of the labor efficiency. The materials costs are basically the same the world over and that alone is a large fraction of the total cost.A46 A40 A46LR A42 A46mk2 A55 A48 A57 A42mk2 Is the Atlantic Catamaran concept patented? No. And it takes a HUGE number of man hours to build a good cruising catamaran. The hourly total for a large cat is measured in . if a patent had been applied for and awarded it would now be expired as protection is good for only 17 years. But there are limits to what a boat builder can do. Atlantic Catamaran is a trademark of Christopher R. “copies are seldom improvements”. As the saying goes however.
etc. condition and location of the boat. and cruised all over the place. And I have data to back up the claim. like all materials. If the efficiency adjusted labor cost is $10/hr lower and it takes 20000 man hours to complete the project that is a $200. In some cases the Atlantic Cat has actually been less expensive even though it uses far superior materials in construction such as epoxy resin. Except for some of the older electronics it was not at all apparent that it wasn't a new or nearly new boat. And there are a few excellent high quality boats built at low cost. ten or twenty years down the road when it comes time to sell it. twice across the Atlantic. She had been well maintained and had recently been painted and the sails were new. and much closer attention to weight control. The sales history of used Atlantic Cats is in my opinion spectacular. Carbon fiber is excellent at this and we use lots of it in . But don't confuse costs and quality. It is all in the details and that takes good design and careful management in the boat shop. Her last selling price was 20% more than she cost brand new in 1995. has unique properties. The boat had been sailed a great deal. While there are variations due to the age. This only works when the boats hold up well and the Atlantic Cats do. I was recently involved in the sale of an A46 built in 1995. across the Pacific. In yacht construction we are often trying to obtain structural stiffness at low weight. so if you had bought T-bills in 1995 instead of a boat you'd have more money now but have you tried to sail a pile of paper? Why don't you build hulls out of wood? Wood/epoxy is an excellent boat building material if handled properly. for the most part resale prices remain remarkably stable over time and trend higher with inflation. Not bad! Okay. What is really important to the boat buyer is not so much the initial cost but what the boat is worth in five.000 savings. carbon fiber. All that said.units of tens of thousands of hours. Catana. Many of the first Atlantic cats were built of wood/epoxy and these boats have held up well over the years. There are many very expensive boats built to very low quality standards. in general a custom or semi-custom built Atlantic Cat of a given size will often cost about the same as the offerings from the mainstream catamaran boat builders such as Jenneau. Ample reason to investigate the alternatives wherever they may be. It translates into cost savings for the boat owner as well a better resale value over time. Why don't you build hulls out of carbon fiber? Carbon fiber. Like it or not there is no faster way to construct a lightweight and strong hull than out of a female mould. But as the demand for Atlantic cats has grown it made sense to use moulds where possible to eliminate the need to build and fair the same hull over and over again. SAN foam.
if you leave out most of the interior and equipment you can have a metal cat at reasonable weight. It is also essential to be able to see well to safely maneuver in crowded harbors. That translates into much greater noise levels below deck which are at best distracting and at worst terrifying. which in effect is not much different than single handing because most of the time there is only one person on watch and he/she has to be able to perform all the sailing functions.. One person on watch needs to be able to easily see all around the boat. That is the whole idea. The major drawback to aluminum use in a cat is weight. anyway you slice it. etc. These are long distance cruising sailboats and by definition they will be sailed shorthanded. Carbon laminates resonate more strongly than glass fiber when thumped by waves or banging hardware. get into docks. Collision is a major risk.especially forward. Easy sail handling and reefing. Of course. And a hull is the most likely part of the boat to see impacts. At the end of it all you have a boat that sinks unless you add special provisions. In many cases that means double handing. 2.certain places. The other issue is hull noise. Can I get an Atlantic Cat in Aluminum? Metal has it's advantages and I have looked at this in detail. adds considerable additional weight compared to epoxy composite. Maybe this reason sounds silly to the racing sailor but in my opinion the attainable speed of a performance cruising cat is limited more by crew comfort than anything else. If it is to be painted outside aluminum normally requires lots of fairing putty. THEN if you want a true equivalent you need to insulate the aluminum hull and deck for thermal and sound and then cover the insulation for looks which adds another big chunk of weight. Carbon laminates can be quite thin and still be strong enough for sailing loads but not strong enough for localized impact loads.even more weight. However. Metal. Visibility. The typical 3mm aluminum hull plating with frames and stringers on the required interval weighs about 50% more per unit area than foam/glass/epoxy. Can they be singlehanded? Absolutely.still more weight. the flip side to low stretch under load is often some “brittleness” under impact. It is far too heavy for a performance catamaran. Can I get one in steel? No. Leading all sail controls to a secure cockpit in the middle of the boat makes all sail handling safe and simple. What design traits make a boat safe to sail shorthanded handed? 1. You do not ever need to leave the .
2. the anchor is located off the bows and all components are stowed neatly in one place. In an area with poor holding shortening scope is the last thing you want to be doing when the wind pipes up. taking the bitter end of one rode off. Fatigue is the mother of nearly all sailing accidents. That in itself is a nuisance because an A-cat will ride happily to a single anchor rode most of the time so making up a bridle and taking it off is additional hassle that is not needed. coiling it up and unwrapping it around the other rode. The sides of the cockpit are 10' inboard of the lifelines. 3. The anchor rode is attached to the boat near the mid point fore and aft. Any boat is wildly unstable at anchor with the rode cleated in this position.cockpit to tack. The foam cored boats would typically float higher if flooded than the older wood/epoxy designs. If you must get under the boat in the dinghy to do this you will be limited to near calm conditions and that could cause a big problem. Can an Atlantic cat be capsized? . Each anchor being lead off to one side of the boat so that the load is shared between the anchors. When hanging on two anchors for any length of time. yawing violently from side to side. 1. dry and protected means the difference between being alert and safe or exhausted and dangerous. When you need a bridle it is typically because it is quite windy and what you'd like to be able to do also is put out more scope. 4. Before making any adjustments or retrieving either anchor the twists must first be undone. Yet another important issue is what happens when you put out two anchors. So it requires using a bridle every time you anchor. invariably the two rodes twist around each other. however differences between them in the amount of positive buoyancy. There are. Along with it came a 10' long chunk of tree that the anchor chain had wrapped itself around. At the outset this seems like a reasonable idea. A separate bridle on one anchor will interfere with this and will need to be removed. The easy and safe way to do this is. A protected watch keeping station. On closer inspection I have several problems with this arrangement. while standing on deck. All the Atlantic Cats are inherently buoyant and cannot sink. Having a watch station where you remain warm. It is not possible to fall out of the cockpit. Why don't you carry the anchor under the net like the charter cats? Here is a good question. The way most “underwing anchor” cats are rigged in order to increase the scope you first have to pull in a bunch of scope to first disconnect the bridle. Just yesterday I watched a neighboring boat hoisting their anchor. Can an Atlantic Cat sink? No. Another factor when using two or more anchors is that the bridle effect comes not from one anchor but two. 3. gybe or reef. It would not have been possible had it all been inaccessible under the bow net. By pulling the chain up close to the wrap it was possible to reach down and undo the mess.
There were no injuries and the boat was recovered with minimal damage and is sailing today. My book. Have any Atlantic Cats been capsized? As of May 2009 there has only been one capsize of an Atlantic Cat (an A42). abandoning an unsinkable vessel to a liferaft has often diminished the chances of the crew surviving. the type and size of boat. There are two causes for capsize one is wind capsize the other is wave capsize.Yes. Any catamaran can be capsized. Wave capsize due to horrible conditions is something that the operator can do less to avoid but there are techniques that can be used to help keep the boat upright. If this were to happen on my own cat I think I would still prefer to get into the 11' inflatable dinghy with an outboard motor than a raft. “The Cruising Multihull” goes into this subject in considerable detail. However. It was solely wind induced and happened on Lake Michigan. I have heard the hype . some multihull designs may not float high enough if flooded to offer enough protection to the crew. although I suppose it could happen. Why don't you offer electric drives? As of May 2009. Yes. What about fire? Not many yachts have had to be evacuated at sea due to fire. There is a saying that the only time you want to get into a raft is when you are climbing UP into it. one catamaran) I have not carried a raft because in my judgment these boats would offer better protection than a raft if capsized. A flooded or capsized multihull can (but not always) offer a much better survival platform than a small inflatable raft. Do you carry a life raft? On my last two cruising boats (one trimaran. I have yet to see an electric drive system that offers any net improvements or advantages over a conventional diesel engine coupled to a propeller. Historically speaking. This capsize was very easily avoided if the captain had been paying attention to the boat rather than his computer hard drive! Should a liferaft be carried? This is a decision that every sailor needs to make based on the locations sailed. the experience of the crew and the time of year and conditions expected. The short answer is that wind capsize is almost always due to “operator error” and is most easily avoided.
4. prone to problems. heavy. . 5. Performance. People sometimes go overboard on their requirement for range so I hesitate to say what is right or enough range under power. I have just not seen examples demonstrating the performance promised. We are talking multihulls here and weight control is important if you are going to realize the benefits of sailing a catamaran. Range: A pure electric drive system in a catamaran run off a one ton battery bank will typically provide a range of less than 10 miles! Okay add two more tons of batteries and you might have 30 mile range.000 miles) or you can keep moving. my conventional diesel powered Atlantic 55 can power along for hours at 10 knots at full throttle. If you are going to carry an engine in the boat at all it makes sense to be able to motor at least that far. This is always important regardless of what an enthusiastic supporter of alternative propulsion might say. Yeah. 3. Performance: Javelin. In fact the examples have been SO FAR AWAY from the promised performance that I have little expectation that anyone will deliver the goods soon. you can sit and wait for the wind (been there done that. As a consequence diesel is available all over and is still very cheap compared to the alternatives. Many cruisers would triple that number or more as their baseline requirement. difficult to install and worst of all the performance has been way below expectations. The basic diesel engine and drive system that most people use can be serviced in some form in most parts of the world. But the long and short of it is that for use in a long distance cruising boat you need several things from the axillary engine. Range. The bottom line is that I have yet to hear a single complimentary review of the whole system. From my experience I would say being able to motor a couple hundred miles is extremely handy. 2. And that will of course vary depending on the region and time of year you are sailing. The reason the world runs on diesel engines is that diesel fuel has such incredible energy density.and claims. 1. The subject can get complex as there are several ways you can go about using electric propulsion. Reliability. Bleeding edge equipment has little application to cruising boats that frequent remote places. Cost. I just repeat what I have been told by various owners and boat builders who have used or installed some of these systems. ruin it. Reasonable weight. And it is essential that you have enough power to be able to motor against strong winds in a harbor or other confined area. I have not heard of any electric drive examples that do much better than 7 knots and most are way below that. But what did you just do to the sailing ability of the boat by adding all that extra weight? Answer. They have been expensive. It is a great thing to be able to motor at reasonable speed. So what is the current state of electric propulsion? I am no expert. I have cruised two engine less boats over 10.
exhaust system. Can the boat be beached? Yes. If a cat is going to sail upwind really well it needs deeper fins than the shallow draft fixed fin typical of most cats. The engines and saildrives cost about $12. Some of the high performance “cruising cats” promoted today will. This is going to be the primary limitation until there are huge advances in battery technology (which may come.000.000 each (wholesale). The majority of Atlantic Cats have used vertically retracting dagger boards but some A55's were built with “swing up” centerboards. A prop can be changed. throttle and shift controls add roughly another $10. break off their rudders. Add labor and you are still less than half the cost of the electric drive system. The props. This boat could run less than one hour from it's battery bank. Of course most cruisers try to avoid any sort of grounding because it wears the precious antifouling paint off the bottom of the boat. In contrast the Atlantic Cats are designed to survive contact with the bottom with little risk of significant damage. upon contact with the bottom. The important thing is that there is a well shaped hydrofoil under the boat to allow it to claw to windward. there is no way to store enough electrical power to propel a boat any distance at anything close to an acceptable weight.000 in parts. bend the props into useless shapes and risk large areas of damage to the hull bottoms. But on occasion it is very handy to be able to put the boat on a protected beach near the top of the tide in order to do minor bottom maintenance. . a bit of antifouling paint touched up or other chores which would normally require a haulout. Are there daggerboards or centerboards to aid upwind performance? Always. He was still assembling the post construction cost numbers but was certain the drive system cost in excess of $100. For cost comparison: in the Atlantic 57 we use 55 hp diesel saildrives.Weight: Currently. but who knows when). Why are there fixed fins on the hulls of the Atlantic Cats? The reasons for having a fin on a cruising boat are many so here is a background of the thinking: Because we are designing cruising boats it is essential that they be able to take occasional hard groundings without sustaining major damage. There are pros and cons to each type naturally. We spoke in detail about the installation problems and costs. Cost: Last week I was meeting with a boatbuider who had recently completed a 55' catamaran with electric drives.
props or rudders. the shallower floats of the tri held the boat up as the main hull was ground away and allowed the boat to be towed off the reef and eventually repaired. Now what would have happened in a high performance cat with midship props. Trying to beat some bad weather. it showed a shoal in the middle of the bay but it was so dark it was hard to judge where that might be. For that reason we make the fins VERY strong. These are not “kick up” rudders but “break off on impact” rudders.As one of the few certainties in life. The fin side laminate is doubled up as well resulting in an extremely stout structure. Charts were sketchy. bouncing against it on every wave. She had only scratches and minor gouges on the fins. which extend deeper than the hull body. If it had been a cat without fins and two torn out bottoms it would still be on the reef as nothing would have been able to tow it off. you know that the hull fin being the deepest part will be the “bumper” that will take the vast majority of grounding impact. The fin is not that long fore and aft but it is plenty long enough for the boat to sit on or in the case of grounding. One of my designs without a fin. Within hours two thirds of the main hull bottom had been torn away by the reef. deep vertically retracting rudders and no fins? The first area of contact probably would have been the very deep vertically retracting rudders. Again conditions were moderate but she spent some time there bouncing on the coral. without any damage to hull. Kate and I sailed Javelin into a very dark and unmarked anchorage in Belize. accidentally went on the reef in the Bahamas two years ago. The next area of contact would probably have been the tips of the folding props. bounce up and down on for hours. . So much of the bottom was missing that the engine fell out! Fortunately. And they would most likely have snapped off on impact. The base of the fin is a thick single skin epoxy/glass laminate that is sledge hammer proof. Without a fin to support the boat the hull settled onto the coral. Motoring slow with a following breeze the bottom rose up so fast we came to a sudden grinding stop before there was a chance to react. All I know about the bottom is that it wasn‟t soft! It sounded like small rocks. a Hammerhead 54 trimaran. Contrast this to an Atlantic 48 Cat while unattended broke it‟s mooring in Grenada and fetched up on the reef . The surf conditions were quite benign but the tide was falling and they got stuck. Hoping we were not stuck I went to full reverse with both engines and after an anxious few seconds was able to back out of the two trenches the fins left in the bottom. If this happens the props are usually damaged beyond repair.
depending on the firmness of the seabed. It really isn‟t very often. The more hull freeboard and cabin and shallower the hull form the faster they go sideways. What about rudder protection? As result of the hull fins all of the Atlantic Cats have well protected rudders. I never realized what a difference the fins made until I tried to dock an Atlantic 55 built without fins at the owner‟s insistence. increases the potential for steering failure and requires increased maintenance. whacking the bottom or sucking up rocks is not going to be easy. Building any retracting rudder in a way that works properly gets expensive. With lots of freeboard and little hull in the water they want to blow sideways. what do I do now!” was my basic response to being blown sideways at a much higher than expected rate. If there is wave action the hull skin can easily be damaged as it just isn‟t designed for point loading because that would add way too much extra weight. I elected not to use a retracting or kick up rudder in the Atlantic Cat series. A couple have had gouges or chunks taken out by rocks but never has one failed to do what it was supposed to do. the hull grounds out for maybe 15‟ to 20‟ of hull length and a couple feet of width. Yeah. If it is a hard edged bottom and there is any swell you are likely to have very major hull damage. Also the likelihood of flotsam impacting the rudder with enough force to damage it is diminished. Motoring off with so much hull bottom in contact with the ground and possibly your props compromised because they are bent. If you don‟t need it why do it? Instead we build fixed rudders and the construct the blades. except when the props are so far from the rudders that the prop wash cannot be used by the rudder. In every case my boat has escaped damage other than scratches.Next to hit bottom. That‟s how a cruising cat should be. In the best conditions only bottom paint is going to be lost. The fin is deeper than the rudder so whatever impacts the rudder might see on grounding are vastly reduced.but that is another topic. Why don't you use a wing mast? . rudder stocks and supporting structure very ruggedly. In half a million sailing miles by Atlantic Cats over a 23 year period there have been exactly ZERO structural failures of the rudder. “Yikes. Twin screw cats are typically very maneuverable. But I am not afraid to admit that I go aground now and then. yeah I know… No one should ever go aground. And I am sure that all owners are skillful enough that such events never happen. but there have been a couple of hard ones. And an extra 1/100 th of an inch of Kevlar isn‟t going to be much of a barrier. Another reason that a fin is worthwhile it the help it provides maneuvering in close quarters. As such. Where a cat can be a real handful is in cross winds.
creep. It is difficult to find a company to do a good job building a wing mast and when you do the costs are often quite high. . If someone is dead set on it.Some of the early Atlantic cats had wing masts as did my trimaran Juniper. But the question remains. don't EVER let it get wet! Get wet? On a boat surrounded by ocean and it can't get wet? Whether the rigging providers are playing CYA or being realistic is a difficult question to answer. certainly the cost is high. UV and chemical resistance. actualnot advertised. runs into a couple hundred pounds. There are some potential electrolytic corrosion issues with carbon but it holds paint better than aluminum so it should look good for a long time too. The first A46 launched in 1986 had a wood/carbon composite wing mast so we have a long history with it. Theoretically a carbon mast should last longer as carbon fiber is very good in fatigue resistance. There are some advantages. There is no doubt that substantial weight can be saved over SS wire so the top racing boats use synthetic rigging exclusively. PBO and carbon fibers are now all used in various forms for stays and shrouds. Spectra. Some of these fibers can be made into standing rigging. Don't let the sunlight get to the fiber! Don't allow the protective sheathing to be broken by batten chafe! Replace all rigging in 3 years! And in the case of PBO. a wingmast can be designed for many of the Atlantic Cats. but in general I think there are better alternatives. The weight savings. all of the new A57's have had carbon masts. I see little to be gained for the additional expense and significant additional complication of a rotating wing mast. Can I use a carbon mast? Yes. More recently. and you pay a substantial premium for that. In addition halyard leads become more complex and prone to chafe. What I do know is this: Every fiber has it's own characteristics of stretch. Cautions abound. mostly in weight saving. Typically a carbon mast costs two to three times what an alumium mast costs. Some owners find this attractive. Kevlar. instruments. Then you run into problems mounting nav lights. I know these rigs fairly well and have built several wing masts myself. Where I start to have reservations is when reading the fine print from the makers of synthetic shrouds. Can I use synthetic standing rigging? In recent years there have been many interesting super strong fibers brought to market. but in relation to the weight saved it is not too bad. is this stuff suitable for cruising boats? At more than 5 times the cost of wire. fatigue life. others do not. On balance. for a cruising cats like these. The weight is also greater than a non-rotating mast. radar and other things on a mast that turns 50 degrees side to side.
like most other cats. The Atlantic Cats . There is lots of storage space. As I sit here now typing the full tradewind breeze keeps me cool inside the pilothouse as it flows through the open doorway. plenty of room for refrigeration.but these are just too small to combat the heat generated within the large pilothouse. There are opening deck hatches about every 8 feet throughout the accommodation plan. The primary objection most people have to locating the galley in the hull is that they would feel cut off from conversation in the pilothouse and confined in a tight space. Opening ports in the hull sides and more importantly opening ports that are positioned in places sheltered from spray so that they can be left open under way. As a breed the Atlantic cats have superior ventilation. Eventually SS wire will be replaced with something lighter and hopefully equally or more durable. In contrast the galley in the hull is superb. I have no idea how they can ventilate well enough to stay comfortable but recently I was anchored next to one and the gen-set ran constantly so the best guess is they rely on air conditioning instead of ventilation. We have hatches and an aft facing door in the pilothouse too. However the main contributor to great ventilation is the forward facing door into the cockpit. maybe 120 degrees F. I just don't think we are there yet. Is there enough ventilation? One of the key requirements for cruising in warm places is having excellent ventilation. even in the Atlantic 42. there is a new carbon rigging product that might come close. have eliminated nearly all of the deck hatches. microwave and the elbows of more than one cook. tons of counter space. Can I have the “galley up” arrangement? This question comes up often. However. In the smaller Atlantic Cats moving the galley into the pilothouse would use up so much of the available space that there would be room for little else. Open the forward door and all the hatches and in minutes the heat is gone replaced by a lovely breeze. Recent testing that I heard results of on rigging that had completed a round the world race showed little or no degradation of strength. Some of the production designs such as Catana.Looking at the total picture I have yet to see products that can be put up and ignored for 5 and 10 years the way we are able to do with type 316 SS wire. Coming aboard late in the afternoon after the boat has been closed up for hours it is impressively hot inside. That is very significant and worth closer investigation.
TRT 1200 C Voyage 380 Helios 38 PDQ/Capella 36 Seawind . The benefits to the existing galley plan are: 1) larger. good room. some not.. some were OK. 4) Less disturbance to the watch when cooking at night. higher than average bridgedeck.000 UKP). and you could pick up a good one for about £120K.combat this feeling with an extra wide access to the galley that allows communication between people in the pilothouse and galley. A good friend of mine is looking for a 35 to 38ft Cat for a 2 year sabatical with the aim of a round the world trip. All of my research before we bought was for much larger cats so my experience in this area is limited. My advise to him was that he should really be looking at 40ft plus but he is set on a sub 38ft boat as there will be only the two of them. last ones made about 2005. After seeing how well the galley works in real life. faster I would say than any of those listed. An Outremer 40/42 which is a stretched 38. most Atlantic Cat owners agree whole heartedly that it is in the right place and would not wish to move it. JKD did a great report on the Athena with some very good replies. If he looks in the FP section of the forum. He has said he would prefer a more performance orientated cat but with decent accomodations which is normally a problem to get both. I would be very careful with the Jaguar and wildcat. 3) keeps the galley mess out of the dining and lounging area. 2) easier and safer cooking in rough weather because there are more places for the cook to brace againstfreeing both hands. more functional galley area. but space is tight. His budget won't stretch to a new boat so he is looking at maybe 5 plus years old (say £130. I have started to make a list for him but I could do with extending the list and anyone's comments on these boats would be helpful: Jaguar 36 Lagoon 380 Wildcat 350 Privilege 37 Mahe 36 (probably outside his budget) Leopard 38 (Old style) Maxim 38 I would go for an FP Athena 38. Go for the late model Athena with the taller rig.
There is space for a watermaker in the engine rooms.Tobago 35 Alan My wife and I looked at an Athena 38 as a prospective liveaboard/long distance voyager and threw it out because it would take a lot of modifications to get it into that condition. They seem to be the best built and best laid out x-charter cats. Expect around 50% TWS Go with the 3 cabin versions. especially when loaded down. use Dynex Dux and deadeyes (I have). Steering is normally Morse. Generally positive on the sailing. Under rigged so nearly impossible to flip. If they pulled out the bunks in a forward cabin and set that up for storage. I have only sailed on the Athena. easy to do . Add solar panels over the davits. and my Tobago of course. I do not mean seaworthiness issues but housekeeping ones. it would work fine. The issue is that builders did not really start heavily building the owners style until after 2002 or so and the ones that hit the market are asking some pretty stiff premiums. Wish them luck in their search. You will see later year model charter cats for that price or the rare older "owners version". Keep the old wheel pilot as a spare. or a double jib. (these need reinforcing IMO. There were just more of the charter boats built as well so the sellers are more competitive on price. I saw a Maxim 380 in an anchorage the other day. (205k usd) I think the answer is yes. These boats are actually quite well built and pretty solid. I would have a look at the Leopard 38. 220 water) but easy to increase under the mast. I would add a prodder and some lightweight sails for downwind work. Just to clarify. Water and diesel capacity is a bit limited on the Tobago (120 l fuel. Upgrade the charging capacity. but no way are they performance boats. so would upgrade to hydraulic and add decent autopilot. It was nice on the outside but I was unable to procure a tour. So the choice is really sit and wait for a suitably kitted boat or decide on a model and buy an ex-charter? At the price point your friend is at. The storage spaces on the boat are just not that well thought out so there will be major reworks necessary. They are cheaper and probably sail better than a Lagoon 380. Storage space is not abundant except under the bunks. . and the house bank. so I wouldn't be worried.I have pics) Standing rigging would probably need to be replaced.
To achieve the "exceptional blend" it was essential to use modern materials and construction technology throughout the design in order to maximize strength and minimize weight. The overriding design concept was to utilize the conventional aft cockpit layout in conjunction with a central deck house that contains a large "living room". Not too many used boats that you can walk onto and sail the first 2k miles of the journey. sure tacking and . and 3) create a truly monocoque structure that yields incredible strength and stiffness which in turn allows a reduction in structural weight. High performance uni-direction carbon fiber laminate carries the primary structural loads. low profile deck house design was developed in order to: 1) allow good forward visibility from the cockpit. The V-45 utilizes a single large daggerboard in the starboard hull. Cored epoxy/composite construction is used throughout. Either way he needs to plan on having to invest some cash to bring the boat up to date for rigging.Either wait and pay the money for the low time one that pops up or hold back a chunk of money and put it into a lower priced charter cat. A completely unique. For a cruising cat to really perform it must have some type of retractable keel or fin. Voyager 45 Catamaran The Voyager 45 design offers an exceptional blend of sailing performance with a comfortable cruising interior. Weight of interior furnishings is minimized by extensive use of lightweight aircraft grade honeycomb panels that are surfaced with thin hardwood veneer to provide a rich traditional look. 2) improve windward performance by reducing windage. sails or something on any boat. Board down draft of 7'9" allows fast.
Jim is also a past vice president in charge of operations at Corsair Marine (read. I feel very satisfied that we achieved our aims. is a lifelong sailor with an Olympic gold medal amid his accomplishments. sophisticated accommodations fall well within that envelope. I have particularly enjoyed working with the Jim on this design. It embraces the designer's conviction that sailing performance is a franchise not to be denied. if not devout. power reaches into the high teens without effort and surfs large ocean waves with complete control. He is a genuine. He has sailed all of his 60 years. The client for whom the boat was developed. But rather than build a stripped-out machine that could sail fast but do nothing else we took the hard road and worked to combine all of the wonderful features the cat has to offer without sacrificing any of them. a dedicated blue water cruiser whose exploits with his wife Nina aboard the Voyager 45 Whale & The Bird have taken him all over the Pacific Northwest. the sailing nature of this design was preeminent. cruising. more recently. and that sensible. The V-45 was originally designed for Jim Hunt. passage-making and even racing. LOA LWL BOA Displacement 44' 7" 43' 0" 23' 4" 16. From the beginning. down the West Coast to Panama. particularly aboard his own unique generation of craft. she tacks crisply. When gunkholing the board is fully retracted and a very shoal draft results. F-24) and.500 lbs Draft Draft Masthead from DWL Sail Area: 3' 9" fixed fin version 3' to 7'9" with daggerboard 60' Main: 617 sq ft / Jib: 340 sq ft Voyager 45: An intelligent long-distance cruising cat from Chris White by Quentin Warren Chris White of South Dartmouth. Of particular interest to this forum is Chris's 1995 undertaking. Mass. Jim Hunt.the best of both worlds. His career spans more than two decades of designing and living aboard boats. She will easily accommodate 6 and sleep 8 or 9 if needed by conversion of the settee into a double berth and use of the amidships child's berth on the port side. the Voyager 45 offshore cruising catamaran. F-27. multihuller. The V-45 sails very well.pointing similar to a good monohull. I find all of the interior spaces to be very pleasing and functional and I especially like the large aft double cabins. whose dry wit and circumspect outlook belie his enthusiasm for the art and science of design. through the . raced very competitively (won an Olympic Gold Medal) and ran a large production boatbuilding company. the latest feather in his cap is acclaim for Best Cruising Multihull in a 1998 Boat Of The Year competition for his recent Atlantic 42 catamaran. has done a lot of sailing. Personally. Adept at two and three hulls.
Build it light One of the reasons that more than a few designers and builders generate excessively corpulent catamaran hulls has to do with the need for buoyancy. Aft of that is a section of rigid foredeck. Both hulls sport shallow. aside from the aesthetic reward and the reduction in windage. low-aspect foils to enhance tracking. crisp entries forward to part seas. which indicates good potential for speed and acceleration (most garden-variety production cats tip in at about 8:1). and a rigid construction agenda that designates modern materials and advanced building methodology to achieve the strength. Design considerations The Voyager 45 hulls are relatively narrow in section for minimal wetted surface. satisfying sheer. the bridgedeck element extends fore-and-aft almost 25. cleverly.000 miles of catamaran sailing behind us without any incident or injury we are confirmed cat-addicts. draft reduces to three feet. uncompromised monococque structural integrity. and then wide. Down. In the interest of upwind performance. Of the catamaran's 45 feet. The deckhouse itself is a graceful rounded podlike structure that blends flush into the decks port and starboard. into the western Caribbean.canal. "With 12. A particularly significant advantage of this detail. low-profile deckhouse sections for reduced windage and good visibility forward from the aft cockpit. Set up for cruising. it draws almost eight feet and does wonders for the boat's pointing ability. rounded." The vessel that cast this spell over the Hunts is a powerful cat with looks as graceful and as striking as its behavior at sea. manufactured with conventional fiberglass and layup technology. The ratio of length to beam at the water line is greater than 11:1. The main elements of its design include a tall. he has included a single large daggerboard in the starboard hull. Bridgedeck clearance is two feet. the boats themselves are simply too heavy to sit the way . narrow. A good-sized trampoline forward keeps weight and solid deck away from the bows. In his own words. Chris felt it necessary to provide some sort of retractable keel or fin so. And technically it is a model of simplicity: The high-aspect composite foil lives in a daggerwell that runs up and through a small portion of the starboard hull right to the deck. 63-foot swept-back fractional rig flying a modern roachy full-batten main. and on up the East Coast to New England. with fine. across the Gulf. stable side decks lead you back to the aft cockpit. This allows the vessel as a whole to be stiffer and stronger than it would were there a raised cabin-top separated from the deck by a traditional coachroof. nine-footlong. then rounded configurations as you move aft for stability and buoyancy. low-slung hulls with a subtle. stiffness and reduction in structural weight that make the realization of the boat possible. is the ability to build the boat with complete. raised and retracted. sufficient overall beam at 23 feet to ensure stability and accommodate a roomy bridge-deck.
in the center nacelle beneath an eyebrow window that follows the contour of the cabin-top. to gear and sails. the deck rigid foam. stoppers and tackle to control daggerboard deployment on the starboard deck. a workbench. with wheel-steering mounted on the cabin bulkhead to port. The accommodation plan calls for a navstation to port. Hull specs indicate cedar-strip core."like a leaf upon the water.multihulls in a perfect world are supposed to . The space is open and cheery. Blue Water thoughts . well appointed storage exists throughout the boat for everything from clothing. a small desk and handy wet locker to starboard. to tools. to provisions. cabinets and counterspace. There is enough on-deck real estate port and starboard to make leaving the cockpit and moving forward easy. furnishings and architecture rely extensively on light-weight aircraft-grade honey-comb panels surfaced with Formica and/or hardwood veneer. and increases the bane of any performance vessel: wetted surface. The navigation area is especially well established . and jib primaries on the cabin-top along with halyards and reefing paraphenalia. dressing seat and bureau in the aft stateroom. The interior will accommodate six with ease." They displace too much. Cross beams and other areas of major structural loading employ high-performance unidirectional carbon fiber laminate and epoxy. The Voyager 45 achieves significant weight savings by means of modern cored epoxy/composite construction throughout. and finally a single berth in the bow. The starboard hull features the same stateroom deal aft. and then forward. It is a very businesslike part of the boat. then a private head and shower. Once inside. cabin-house and hull interfaces. the ability to build the boat with monococque integrity reduces the need for heavy conventional structural reinforcement at the bridge-deck. Simply. functional below The cockpit features wrap-around U-shaped seating aft at the stern. and it will sleep eight or nine if needed by converting the main settee into another double and energizing an amidships child's berth located on the port side. a doubleended mainsheet system led to winches port and starboard. And inside. In general. which puts more mass below the waterline. As noted. The port hull features a large double-berth. the main living space occurs in the bridge-deck area. shower and single berth forward. In lieu of a galley amidships. however the slope of the cabin structure as it blends into the deck requires a little getting used to. lockers. plus the same head.hardly the tabletop add-on found aboard allegedly more lavish vessels in which the entertainment center takes precedence. a full working galley stretched fore-and-aft beyond the step-down from the bridge-deck. that area is devoted to the daggerboard trunk. a dinette flanked by settees. There are dinghy davits aft.
room to be comfortable inside. and builder responsibilities brought up to those standards if they intend to compete in a world market. but it is apt to shine most brightly offshore if kept within the payload parameters suggested by the lightweight construction ideal pursued by the designer. mind you) was 245 miles between Belize and the Yucatan. Unless they go back to land life. he believes in the redundancy of systems and tools. where labor costs are so cheap.. I would want something that performs well on all points of sail (or at least reasonably well upwind) with a cruising load and had attractive lines. and dogged enthusiasm when it comes to what one should demand from the materials. maneuverability. In his travels aboard Shale & The Bird. but I haven't seen this boat yet. speed.within specific restrictions of the boats original safety and structural designs.Off the coast of Oregon. but also much more customization. Very interesting conversation! Roxanne s/v Bamboo . The closest I've seen are some of the Wharram designs. in the comfort of full stores and prescribed personal amenity. As I see trends toward not only more catamarans being built and used as livaboards. we frequently did better than 200 miles a day. ie warranties. the latter is subjective. I've met many mono's who would love to own a cat. The Voyager 45 is a marvelous extension of that thinking. The "sailing barge" phenomenon is one of the things that keeps me from seriously entertaining a multi." Performance and comfort are always at odds in the context of serious ocean voyaging. he realized "all that a performance cruising has to offer: stability (the stove isn't gimbaled and the refrigerator front opening). and have a monohull for day sails. Chris White's approach to the conflict combines a philosophy of temperance and reserve when it comes to what one should expect in the way of amenity. I would like to see the standards used in 1st world economy's. and his appreciation of seagoing performance is of overriding significance. Admittedly. and a safe workable platform under arduous conditions. And our best day's run (loaded for cruising. his reflections on time spent aboard paint a telling picture of what Chris White's design can accomplish in the proper hands. but also everything you own short of the Buick in the driveway.. but not any cat owners who go back to a mono.. With so many of the catamarans now being built in South Africa. However. I think as the economy adjusts and settles. If I went to a multi. but increasing the cost of customized cats.. Sailing in the Pacific Northwest... The Voyager 45 certainly has room for a lot. sheer square-footage tempts you to bring aboard not only everyone you know. 40-knot winds and 15-foot seas gave us 20+ knots of surfing joy.In the case of so many cruising catamarans. technology and design logic available today in the semi-custom marketplace. possibly lowering the cost of basic cats..Offshore. What a very interesting discussion! We've just had a catamaran built (St Francis 50) after living aboard our 47' Vagabond monohull for 7 years cruising the Caribbean . the market for personalization of your own living space I think will only increase.. Jim Hunt has not skimped on provisioning by any means. In fact. he has voyaged as a couple with occasional guests. I do believe there is a huge market still available for catamaran builders in customizing to owners spec's.
Cats are great for being there too. After years of being away from boating in S. Requirements One double.com/sagitta. reasonable quality because they make bigger boats where reputation matters. curves where windage or good looks require them. So smaller and simpler is better. No intention to go much further. we can hapily live an "ehanced camping lifestyle". Be single handed easily. eat well and have room to stretch out comfortably in a warm saloon. Which one would you prefer? I really have no favourite.ikarus342000. My inteded size is 28-30 ft. and a reasonable price for a pretty. Then take off for "extended holidays" of 1 or maybe 2 years in the Carribean with wife and two small kids (5 & 6 years on departure). Basically I came to two designs: Woods Sagitta http://www. I returned to a mono after having sailed a cat (prout 37) for 2 glorious years. Additional berths would only be used for storage. I ruled out the second hand market for me. Catamaran of my size are few and I found those I looked at old and worn out. Simple construction with simple materials. a separate heads compartment. I don't want to be wet all day. pretty fast and quite roomy boat. plus a double or two singles for the kids. The mono was okay but not where the heart was. where ever you end up. Real bargains are rare as everywhere. I'd like to keep the boat after the trip for holiday cruising and if time / money allows another trip (??). Acceptable performance to windward. or 8. I prefer sailing to maintenance or wage slavery work. Texas we returned to a cat. Size of accomodations and price were the only reason to go back. I do want to sail in early spring and late autumn when temperatures require warm clothing.. I like mine better. or snooze in a private bunk. Happy days are here again! So here I am thinking about building my own catamaran. I don't want bigger. Two small outboards for tight quarters. if only it had a steam engine! But offer me a straight swap. Use: Some local cruising in the North / Baltic sea. Adequate in most respects.htm and Kohler KD860 http://www. no intention to take guests for more than one or two days. Small enough to be and remain affordable . Flat panels where it fits for speedy build.both in terms of money and maintenance time. Without being wet.sailingcatamarans. No need for luxuries. lots of money and still own an old boat. Both have their strong and weak points. You end up fixing / replacing other people's problems. Shoal draft. you sleep sound.. Sagitta +number of boats in the water . a bridgedeck saloon (not for the tropics but here!). carrying the provisions for 2+2 for 4 weeks.com/P86page.The bigger CAT's seem to dominate this discussion but the Sales of the Mahe 36 are good. The cat needs to be large enough to do the job. acceptable galley. At the end you spend hundreds of hours.htm But now I am stuck.5-9 meters.that's why I'm asking for other opinions.
for example. So it is not a small space. However I will answer some questions in a general way. it is certainly bigger than an Iroquois. I think most experienced catamaran sailors will agree with me when I say that the forward bunks are bouncy and the aft bunks are . load carrying and be slower. relaxing in the comfortable cockpit. I am not going to start comparing one of my designs to another. After all. you wouldn’t buy a car just from the sales brochure. All of Sagitta’s accommodation is aft. To get an impartial opinion you can look at postings about Sagitta on other multihull forums. which although the same length is 7ft narrower. It will probably also have less room. When we designed Sagitta we reckoned a 30ft cat with an accommodation of 20ft wide x 12ft long would be at least as good as a 30ft monohull with an accommodation “box” of 20ft long and 12ft wide. so you will need to email me to get the links if you cannot find them yourself. at least not in public.+only nice comments +available as a production cat +wider hull due to the flare +access to mast from cockpit -weak load carrier -longer build time due to flares and curves -more draft KD860 +much better load carrier +lower draft +provides more privacy +larger saloon +overall a lower profile +simpler to construct -Only one has hit the water (it's a new design from 2006. You queried the comments on the bunk position. Clearly a smaller boat (like the KD860) should be lighter than Sagitta. That keeps the bows light and leaves room forsail lockers and other stowage. This turns the Sagitta into a shorter Eclipse. I assume you have now looked at all the Sagitta you tube videos. much more on my “real” videos). overtaking other (larger) catamarans. I assume you will get at least as much information about the KD860 before deciding which boat is for you. but at the expense of cockpit space and deck lockers. “bashing” to windward. In my previous posting I mentioned the longer/higher cabin option. So you will have seen it sailing at 9 knots to windward. You cannot really tell how fast a car is. the big galley and big saloon (incidentally there is more. although you need to go back some time for references to Bernd Kohler due to his ten years sailing holiday (see the circumnavigation of the "Zeeman" in the early 90s). For example the Sagitta Mandu recently sailed the Atlantic and you can find full reports of that trip online. steering with one finger. The censors on this site ban mentioning their names. just from its hp and kerbside weight. or how well it handles. several are under way) -no widely available experience with anti vortex panels -possibly lower resale value (woods do sell for good prices) Both have reputable designers.
I hope this helps you decide on the best boat for you. styl ish but definitely affordable boats with semi-modern hull shapes and high-volume interiors. We lived with Glenn on board for 2 weeks and were very comfortable.500 built in a production run since 1971 -. John Kretschmerdescribes them as "simple but successful . Many people prefer sleeping fore and aft rather than athwartships.. He built this boat because he enjoyed the life style and wanted it back. C27s are the perfect boat for racing or cruising on the Chessie. Far from surviving he is truly living! .and their versatility alone. I like reading in bed and having a coffee bought for me in the morning (fat chance) so a big comfortable bunk with useful shelving (coffee cup. Richard Woods of Woods Designs Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans By their sheer numbers -. glasses. books etc) is essential in my book." David. while bunks on the bridgedeck are high off the floor. In addition.. I always design bunks with good sitting headroom. Your post says much more about you than Glenn. He is not interested in proving anything to anyone. we could not pass on the Catalina 27 as a "Best Bay Boat". He cruised full time for 10 years across the Pacific and into Asia on a smaller Wharram.much more comfortable. At that point he had been living aboard for a year and was far from suffering.there have been more than 6. fast and roomy. In short. which also makes access difficult. they are cheap. All that time he never had a motor and never used a mooring or a slip. It is awkward getting into a transverse bunk.
I have had 9 guests at one time. really badly. Both engine compartments had leaked enough during the brief life of this boat that the exhaust manifolds were rusted and the exhaust elbows were severely rusted. I can give no credit to the Lagoon 400. The rest of the galley cabinetry was filled with a fridge. freezer and a small trash bin. pans and silverware? The stbd owners hull is immense and open with no bulkheads dividing up the space (I am not listing this as a bad point . pots. This sailor/builder must have Polynesian blood flowing in his veins.Beautiful catamaran. moan. I went with the 42 ft pahi captain cook model wharram and its alot more comfy and incredibly safe. This boat was designed only for sitting on a dock. The boat at the show was delivered by ship from France to Baltimore and motored the short trip down to Annapolis. and it isn't even a good boat for that. move and spring as you walk on them. or can be secured. None of them are secure. Without a doubt. and I was concerned about falling through them they are so unsupported and cheap. There were no steps or easy access into or out of the ~6' deep engine compartments. Here is where having no bulkheads interfering with the interior . The man who built this yacht knows what he wants. I thought maybe one could put a couple of dishes in the lone small ~18"x10" cupboard. Maybe future Lagoon 400 owners only eat frozen burritos and have no need for dishes. and give them credit for filling their design goals and market niche. Many modern yachts are a fashion statement. __________________ Dave Exit Only Glenn has a semi blog on wharrams site. I was on the Lagoon 400 yesterday. They are not built for adventure .until later). Did I mention cheap? The rest of the inside has similar cheap fit and finish throughout. I however and not single and have a wife so. However. It's meant to go to sea on long voyages for long periods of time on small amounts of money. this was the worst catamaran I have ever been on. amazing trip and its not self induced torture some people strive in those conditions and I would feel safer on his boat than alot of Condomarans I have been on. This looks like a yacht built for adventure. the floorboards in the hulls creak. and knows where he is going. No fashion statement here. knows what he is doing. Where to start? The galley has zero (none. but when I opened it. not even a teeny tiny bit) of storage space. but I was shocked at what I found and can't believe a manufacturer is trying to put something like that boat out for sale. Really. I have become used to condomarans and charter boats. I was surprised to find the deck flexing and bouncing 1/8" like a trampoline! I weigh 160lbs wet and could deflect the deck 1/4" by gently bouncing up and down on it. The engine compartments are very deep and poorly sealed. I dislike writing that. Walking up the starboard side deck. where the mast was stepped and rigged. an extension of an image oriented lifestyle. a tiny microwave was stuffed into it. I congratulate him.
but it is a far. There is a single large storage locker in the bow with a very heavy lid. The lid has no handle or finger indent for using it.. but pulled my hand away just in time. the Lagoon 400 was chock full of people drooling over it saying it is the best catamaran ever produced. The catwalk is designed mostly only for use as a chain guide. so maybe I'm missing their charms. The market competition for the Lagoon 400 is the FP Lipari. I weigh 160lbs wet). the struts give up and the lid slams down hard. So I guess the sailing performance is superb and on par with the likes of Playstation. The Lipari also has a lot of flawed compromises. But again. On the other hand. Of course.even for just displaying a small stainless anchor at the dock. most of the charter market boats have this type of seat. but most women have more sense than to get on the helm in these designs). the gas struts take over and the lid comes up easily. His response was "you won't need to worry about bad weather because this boat can out-sail any storm". When the lid gets 3/4 of the way down. The bow seats built into the pulpits were simply a piece of plywood cut to shape with the endgrains fully exposed. The helm design sweeping the catamaran market is one of the helmsman being completely exposed to the elements so that the coachroof can be seamlessly extended back across the whole cockpit. Mark . The coach roof is so high that even standing up on the raised helm a 5'11" person (me) can't see the opposite corner or side of the boat. One opens it by getting your fingertips underneath the 1/8" gap between the lid and deck and pulling strongly with your fingernails. but they are on many boats. The helmseat is the ubiquitous bench seat with a small round cushioned bar hitting you in the back in just the right place to cause incredible pain. The lid/locker interface is of a guillotine design and someone will get hurt. I have never understood these types of backrests. One of the rollers was already pulling out the rivets. Putting it back down is dangerous. there was no way to evaluate the sailing performance. freeze himself or soak himself (or herself. The Lagoon 4000 follows this trend. I am giving Lagoon the benefit of the doubt here and thinking that they forgot to install the seats at the factory and the plywood cutouts were done at the last minute at the show.volume manifests itself. There is a cutout in the solid coachroof extension so that the poor skipper can burn himself. It was not sealed or coated in any way. So what do I know. coupled with its height above water. The fiberglass catwalk connecting the bridgedeck to the cross beam and guiding the anchor chain to the roller flexed alarmingly when stood on . I almost lost a finger.. but I was standing next to a woman who asked the Lagoon rep how the boat handled storms. Although forgetting to install a piece of the boat at the factory brings other doubts to mind. The rollers are simply unusable . Right on your fingers because there is no handle or relief set into the lid. far superior boat than the Lagoon 400. will be very uncomfortable and tiring in rough seas. Just my observations and opinions. The bench seat provides no lateral support and. Once opened a bit.probably 1" or more (again. Both anchor rollers were pathetically undersized and installed on the cross beam with 1/4" aluminum pop rivets. but it is going to be walked on because it is very wide and much more comfortable than the elastic fishnet Lagoon uses for the trampolines.
IMHO. Increased boat size.. I'm one here on the cheap. Bonds that must be secured if you want to stop in some PacificIslands .How much? Well that is variable by an order of magnitude depending upon the boat and lifestyle you want to maintain.real life can really be a bummer when it comes to money. something has to give. There's as many ways to go sailing as there are people doing it. constitute the "floor amount". It was always a dream to have what we have now. better food. Entry/exit fees at the countries you want to visit. no doubt there are some well heeled folks here. you are right. We are in the latter group. and a million other "little nickel/dime" things soon add up to big money or more accurately put . Make most of our own hootch. Yes. And living the "dream" piece by piece.Above that "floor" cruisers will spend .all the money you have available to spend. if not thousands. a certain level of food needed to stay alive and healthy (most countries import all their food except for household gardens). money should not be the deciding factor in whether a dreamer chases their dream or not. But there are hundreds of cruisers. are all in the "floor amount" ... . everyone finds their own level of comfort (and expense). added safety features. If you don't. We sail as long as the wind will move us. Mostly work as boat requires the funds. are also gone. That translates to you are going to have to pay for the privilege of visiting the "paradises" you want to sail to.The old tales and feats of high adventure on the high seas are now Hollywood stuff . insurance if inside a country that requires it. Then over time you build your future cruising adventure by saving and investing until you exceed the "floor/threshold". . Have no desire to change lifestyle. After pulling hair out from stress of running a commercial construction company for 10 yrs. As others stated it is about US$1k/month.oh! forgot you must have credit or sufficient funds to get your butt back to your home country should you get in trouble and they politely ask you to leave. Just like the days of roaming the "wild west" of the USA and "staking a claim" on half of Oklahoma and the unknown oil underneath.Well. don't eat out much (that's easy when your wife is as good in the kitchen as mine is!). There is however a "floor" amount of money.as much as you have available to spend. If you're not independently wealthy. we pass on a lot of other things people take for granted so we can afford to keep a boat and use it. The list goes on. The blackberry I'm typing on is my one automatic monthly bill. . get a marina dock only when we absolutely have to. medical insurance.. The thing I hear all the time is "I've always dreamed of doing that". but there's a lot of Average Joes (or John Does?) here as well who don't have the big bucks and make sacrifices to support their sailing passion. Cost of gasoline or diesel. . Maintenance on the boat and the US$200/gallon bottom paint. Do our own repairs and maintenance as much as possible. Most likely you will build a little higher so that your adventure will not become an ordeal but rather an enjoyable adventure. you will be deported and that will pretty much end any future travel outside your home country. Plain and simple.. That's sad. they constantly chase more. all I wanted was out of ratrace. doing the 6 months on the boat/6 months back working routine. If often seems to me that those who are really wealthy never seem to have enough money.The old buccaneer days and days of Eric Hiscock are gone. That would.The rest of us "planned ahead" (except for those that won the lottery) and saved and invested and now can live the dream full time (or at least a significant period of time).You can enjoy a "piece of the pie of paradise" by starting local within your home country for far less than striking out around the world. it's just common sense.as others have aptly stated . . . The civilized world is full up with people and politicians. -.
I'm way too young to be thinking about retirement and am definitely in the wrong occupation for taking long cruises. steel reserve.. See my Web site for pictures. for the money you have to spend on a boat I would recommend a Hughes 38. and the dream gets further and further away. what you need to do is find the boat and get it survuyed. and are a somewhat dated IOR design.00 year between 1967-1972. Check yachtworld or Google for 38 foot hughes for sale. we develop more and more tastes we don't want to live without. So to the natives. Canada. Price @ $12000 for parts and gear. they were and are budget boats. The downside is that all of Hughes 38s (there were several different designs) are getting little old (ended production very early 1970s). In other countries.000/year. I know the the 38' hughes is a good boat for I own one. So doing the math. $220 on moorage. but some systems details were below average. Many of witch sailed around the world. That should give you a ideal what you are up agents.000/month become a floor when you already own the boat? Maybe if you're buying a lot of visas and all that stuff. and 2 lbs loafs of cheddar cheese. So the term "wealthy" is highly variable depending upon what you are comparing it to. Now I would plan on mostly ribeyes. That's $6.so I'd expect to spend about $500/month for what I consider the essentials (I'd eat out a lot less cruising and spend a lot less on gas and car maintenance. I could spend a long time exploring the US. average. We start earning more.. When I bought the Hughes it was sailed across the Gulf of Mexico with no problem and that is before I started my refit. I think you've got to go before you get used to the good stuff though. Of course. I paid $20000 for my Hughes and it is at present getting a total refit. Good solid boat for bluewater sailing. but would spend a bit on transient moorage and probably have some higher expenses in some ways). eat good steaks) I only spend about $1. Mischief. When I was still in college/grad school it ranged from $700/month to $1. The labor is free for I will do it my self.300/month (studied a year in southern california and it's damned expensive). Assuming I stick to countries I don't have to pay expensive visa fees for that leaves about $500/month of a $1.500/month. 5 years ago I would have planned on buying big bags of frozen chicken.. we spend more. micro-brews and specialty cheeses. The Hughes is one of the only 38' blue water cruiesing sailboats I seen for this price. our US$100 makes us almost a millionaire in their local currency. How does $1. often come with a gasoline engine. I pay about $800 in rent and utilities. But that is just my boat. You should find priced between $20000. Living what I consider pretty well on land (rent a small house. The entire line of Hughes sailboats represents some great bargains that tend to sell noticeably less than almost anything else in their size range.000/month budget for maintenance.but when we arrive at places like Trinidad we can throw around TT$100 bills with abandon as they are only worth US$16. Build quality was. and Mexico.00 to $25000. at best. Hi Mischief.. But $1. You could buy an inexpensive 27' sailboat every year basically.000/month doesn't seem all that unrealistic. Well. .When looking at the cost on living on land we are mostly in the low income range (heck the USA poverty level in 2008 was about $14K a year) . we are "wealthy gringos". but if you're cruising relatively locally or just in a few countries it doesn't seem like it should be that high.
a pain to run back and forth to the shops etc. Have a second think about it all. hot water. At a marina. The people who we have met whilst crusing ALL have threats to their lifestyle. A pain to get to work. it will be a hell of a lot harder for you if you put to sea thinking you can do it on a wish and a prayer. or pirates. I'd never go back to a single stick rig. How you will make one little mistake and it will screw the fund up so bad you will be miserable to the max. If you really want to subject a 2 year old and a baby to the riggors of the ocean on $40k you're nuts. for I am sure you will find the boat best suited for your budget and demands. money. There requirements might not be the same as yours. Just an EPIRB with integrated GPS is reasonable percentage of the value of your boat. partners that don't want to be there. You have to try one with two sticks. And yo expect to be given if for free in some super deal? Also the shitlocker thats worth $40k will be a pain in the neck to sell. ... And that costs money in Australia like you wouldnt believe. Maybe 2 years till you can flog it. No power tools. If you can live simply as you say then why not work till you can afford a boat and the lifestyle? Plus think about what you are really after: do you want to travel the world? Or are you looking for a substitute home for the one the banks wont let you buy? Hang in there. refrigeration. bath times with hot water. Check out on the net the voyages of S/V Atom and see what he had when he started his trip.000 per month in Sydney.Also I prefer a single mast sail plan. $2. but you want to buy another in 2 years? So you will buy one and put it on the market? There ain't no market! Look at Boatpoint and you will see the same boats as last year. If an old boat needs work where can you do that work. it requires a ship buider! A new baby requires clean water. Its NOT storms. A 1970's $40k boat does not require a sailor. How it will never have enough in it. (said in the nicest possable way with a view to: "temper my thoughts") Let me tell you that we know what the costs are and as hard as it is for you. a clear area to safely crash around in.. electricty all the things that a worksite of a boat will not supply. there's the crux.. Now. Don't let anyone talk you out of your dreams. no cheaper up the coast. Now can I mention to you what a contingency fund is? Can I mention how much it needs to be. A 2 year old "terrible two's" requires clean water. To work on the boat at anchor is very difficult. Mix 2 together and we see people with a look in their eyes that you see on bridge ledges.incredible. The threats are: Boats that don't go.
Hey guys Its nice to offer up links to boats in the price range. This is my personal opinion .00 for 18 months in both Eastern and Western Caribbean.00 cruising kitty. A good Wharram very difficult to find.it turns out to be sort of like expensive. but didn't the OP asks for a boat in Australia? How is a USA boat going to help? They are 2 totally differnt price point markets. This is the fourth boat I've built for myself – two were built in the UK. The build is nearing the end and the project has remained. Don‟t dream your dream live your dream before it is too late.000 kms away in Australia The cost to transport the boat to Australia would be far in excess of its value. of classic steam launches . and it is now a decent boat . despite the collapsing dollar. James Wharram has never seen any of our boats nor has visited our boatyard . I deeply modified his poorly designed and not engineered Tiki 38 . say. What you can get for $30k in the USA just doesnt exist 20. so do materials. which is Thailand's biggest. Once you find one . details need watching over. is very good. there is a BIG difference between the requirements (and philosophy) of the Wharram and the relatively heavy displacement motor sailers of the RB catamaran range but even RB's production lines (as opposed to their custom boats) are competitive with most of the USA's best.He basically got no idea of what we are building here . there are Tiki 38 lovers. we don't pay a commission to the designer . one in France – and the overall quality from this Thai yard. Original Tiki design is totally lacking of any logic . So everybody is happy . and this is why we are not recommended by James Wharram . I'm building a 38 foot Wharram Tiki in red cedar composite at RB Power And Sailing: you can see the progress of the work at my blog. of Riva Bahamas and of RB boats as well . But their stability & unsinkability (if made of wood or sandwich) is a very serious benefit. Or not ? .00 for refit and $5000. Give a bad recommendation to somebody that is totally unknown is not a sign of much intelligence . Yes. So my total was $22000. But I would love a professionally built Wharram as a cruising platform.Wharrams are very much 'outdoor' boats . on budget and only a few weeks over time. Of course. The lifestyle may suck to some while it will appeal to others .not fun when the weather turns nasty. Not to bad for the playground I was at. nobody of his staff either .Seven years ago I bought a 1964 Alberg 30 for $12000 and put in another $5000. Building in Thailand doesnot represent the risk of. building in the Phillipines or Indonesia . but the workmanship and the oversight (and enthusiasm) of Raoul Bianchetti's management team can't be faulted. sailing bad and hard to tack and it is surely not a boat that i would be proud to have it designed . Yes .
The only thing that gives me pause with his method is that it looks like you may have to do a lot of fairing of the finished hull.Articles . Then there is always the Tektron 50.html Check out Imagine2Frolic's boat for a beautifull example. in my opinion this is optimum size. and it will be plywood. good performance Dix design is the one i like.com. The co-designer of the Dix 550 built the first Gunboats. Since you don't need huge amounts of space. From: Russian Birch Plywood .You have picked a very nice boat.. If I had the funds and time. fairing : with cnc i can shape plywood a little so my hull should be smoother ( reduction of kgs of fairing material) If you are like me and hadn't heard of Russian Birch ply before. with a laser i should have a good control of building process.. material: i make decision. i have better price and i don't see any advantage of marine plywood. but these are all more performance oriented cats as opposed to a Taj Mahal condo-maran. that will require a smaller rig and make it easier to handle shorthanded. good size if you have visitors. They are designed in Australia and can eitehr be built from scratch or you can buy kits. but two of my favorite designs in that range are the Chis White Atlantic 55Chris White Designs and the Kelsall 54 (love the twin free standing wing masts.Sail Cat. good workmanship should produce strong boat.. I'm not sure what your goals are. If you go with ply. i think epoxy/ply method give me a very good boat. Schionning Designs The one I saw. I'm not sure if you can take a design that was spec'ed for foam core and build in plywood.boatcraft. and hulls very thin. we are building now diy cnc router which give me quality.Kelsall Catamarans . I'd suggest keeping the boat very light. speed and repetition of shape of the parts.I am relatively new to the cat seen but recently saw and toured a Schionning in Northern California . Hi there. Another good designer in wood is Roger Simpson. I hope you build it. http://www. not the plywood itself.(I think she was a Wilderness 48) Apparently she is quite a sailing performer as well. Tektron 50 yacht design you could do a hard or soft house on the bridgedeck (or hybrid similar to the Maine Cat 41). Any catamaran designed for cruising will be OK for SoutheastAsia . but I think you can use a traditional rig). looks good and i think it will be good performer. be very confident in your supplier and do a boil test on some samples prior to commiting. Where in Thailand are you planning to build? Mike about design: i like 55' boat . most of problems are lazy building practices. was built by the owner and was stunning.au/simpson.this would probably the route I would go. The Dix designs are very nice and would certainly be suitable for your purposes. my choice is a russian birch plywood. can be sail by 1 person. Sea Level. The owner/builder also had/has a web site of 900+ pictures of his building process.
Speaking from experience. but does rely on shore based manufacturing. with no particular talent as opposed to skills. Cabinet makers are flocking to the imported plywood because of its excellent properties and soon it will be a common place material. as well as a local clientel. the material has some excellent machiningproperties and does particularly well on CNC machines. not my first choice. or a software professional. but I see a potential for conflict in foreign locals. is a business that can be operated from a boat. new anchor chain and lines. whereas typical plywood can have layers of pine or other woods mixed in. acres of cushions needing recovering. but it did not allow me to travel. engine replacement needed on one engine and the other a "suspect" with over 1000 hours on both Yamaha outboards.after all he just finished 5 years cruising the islands and everything "works". and my car. and that's just the obvious stuff. new sails. Donï¿½t think you can walk into Lowes or Home Depot to buy the product. Because the product is so tight. I know it exists.. new lifelines. and satellite phones. Try a Wharram design .. the prospects are limited. while changing locations internationaly. This sort of thing has potential. As for commitment. until I was bought out. I know Reefurl was started. drying-out of wet cored hulls. but I am qualified. and run as a successful boat based business by a cruising couple. There have got to be some ideas out there with the diversity of the cruising community. however it is rapidly making a very good name for itself. you can actually expose the edges and for certain shop items it is an appealing look. What I am searching out. (Needed new standing and running rigging. It is becoming desirable because it has multiple plies of birch veneer that gives superior strength and a very low void count. Unfortunately. I ran an insurance appraisal business from my boat for over a year.. One of the beauties of the Russian birch lines is that all the layers are actually birch. only specialty wood sources will have it for now.either a Tiki 46 or a professionally build Islander or Pahi. Lot of boat for the buck! All of the above are very true. and he talked it up as "pristine". and not requiring arrival schedules (communication schedules are OK). I have just yet to think of it.. Based on false descriptions I drove 12 hours round trip to see a 10-year-old 33-foot Seawind 1000 listed at $175k that based on my one-hour inspection would need at least $75k+ worth of refit to be offshore-ready seaworthy. new canvas. Making a living as a delivery skipper is impractical at best. etc. I was leashed to the dock. using the communications available from a boat in varying locations. Originally the wood was only available in 5 x 5 sheets which was an odd dimension. just not to a location.. it sounds like if you are not an artist willing to starve your way around the world. Because of this. cruisers commit better than most of society. As a mechanic.Apparently it is also bonded with a waterproof phenolic adhesive. re-bedding of all hatches and deck fittings (many leaking). It was a "pristine" project boat .) Those are not things to ignore if going offshore.. Russian Birch Plywood Russian Birch plywood is not very well known here in the USA yet. The seller thought he had a goldplater -. But it was subsequently sitting on the hard for two years (with sails left bent on the boom and tied but uncovered) and time everything needed maintenance. Now the plywood can be had in the standard 4 x 8 sheet stock as well as other sizes.
and the Caribbean. It's also one of the very few boats that has two sitz baths up forward. If you want to do long ocean passages of more than a week or so I'd rule out the PDQ 36. Its a great boat. I had to sell it due to health problems. I've had two of those boats. Head clearance aft in the hulls is around 6 ft midships. only because it has slender hulls 11 or 12 to 1 without much load carry capacity. More luxurious finish throughout. Some work needed is fine. Have you looked at the Wharram cats? The Pahi 42. By contrast the St Francis is a boat that's used routinely for circumnavigations. It must have a galley that has room to work in. If I were doing a circumnavigation of the caribbean though I would first choose the PDQ 36 as it's so easy to keep. It must have a sit down nav station. 5' 10 aft and 6' 2" in the forward cabins. It must have a diesel engine. Narai or Oro would fit most of your criteria and can be found in your price range. My son is a dwarf. especially considering their initial delivery on the maiden voyage is usually 20+ days at sea from South Africa to the Caribbean or Med crossing the atlantic the long way. now resolved. Central America.Don't rule out a mono. Engines are yanmar. extremely simply to operate. Extremely structurally strong. arguable the best out there. It must have adequate tankage. we like to cook. It's a workman like boat with simpler water based enamel finishes and coatings. when he stepped aboard all of the old salts onboard did the exact same thing and quickly glanced down at the waterline! For doing a circumnavigation of the Caribbean it would be absolutely fine. Heck. Of the boats you've listed (or any catamaran really) it also has one of the bigger galleys with 8 ft of counter space. I have a 350 lb friend and when he stepped onto my PDQ 36 the back transom sank at least an inch. 1 kid (12) and a dog. We looked at that boat again a couple of months ago. We have a list of must-haves. I had a Cross 37 10 years ago. It also has one of the highest sail area/displacement of any catamaran. It's a heavier boat. Mom & Dad. It would also have the most accomodations with a 10 by 14 ft saloon area and very nice forward cabins. but we don't want a multi-year project. Call it a good 12 knot boat in trade winds of 18-20 knots. one a double or a queen and a door. the PDQ 36 and now have the St Francis 44 and been aboard all of them. Very nice for kids and honestly you can fit into it if you don't mind tucking your feet up a bit. Odd. the other can be small. My family is looking for a multihull to cruise Mexico. I'd like to go 40' if possible. For the older models (Mk I) the clearance underneath is probably around 24 inches which isn't fantastic by modern standards but travelling with the trades it won't be an issue. he doesn't need a large bed. I build racecars and my wife was a Mechanic in the Coast Guard. It is not outdated tech at all. you can get a nice 1980s O'day 39' to 40' for the price range you are looking for. but it simply wasn't designed for transpacific passages. It must have 2 separate sleeping areas. it's smaller than I remembered. I'm six ft in dress shoes and find it fine everywhere. In the settee area it's around 6'3 or 6'4". For the price and what the yacht will be used for. Of the boats you've listed it would be one of the best sailors also with hull length/hull beam ratios of 11 to 1 (unlike the PDQ though it has the length to carry the weight you would need for a transpacific). Last it's one of the few boats with engines amidships. Great for balance and sailing ability. it would be hard to beat a nicely taken cared for Catalina 36'. very solidly built. We'll have about $50-$75K to work with. The privilege 39 and 43 are also routinely used boats for circumnavigation. It must be able to tolerate getting stuck out in some bad weather. some consider it more of a 8-9 knot . It must have a shallow draft and should be beachable.
Anyway. you know. good bridgedeck clearance. As to speed. As to there being inadequate space in a cat under 40 for a trans-pac. And you should certainly be able to store and carry the weight of clothes and food for two for the same distance and time. you can't/shouldn't overload the boat with microwaves. However. Brad I looked at Outremer for my family as well.. . camp. air-conditioning. and carry a bunch of jerry jugs and I guess you could get lots of plastic storage bins to keep food. Eric Lerouge certainly designed some fine catamarans . . the performance is also not up to the standard of Outremers . Not coincidentally. No. you can suppliment with water maker (but do you really only want 25 gallons of water if it fails?).. They were solidly constructed . as Lerouge is purported to have complained about the increase in weight (as compared to his original design specs )that resulted when Solaris built them to the Lloyd's offshore standards of the time. etc. I also question the layout of the early boats which had no access from the bridgedeck accomodation to the hulls. The older lagoon 42 (american designed and built) was a very nice boat.think more in terms of the Leopard 38 but with much less susceptibility to bridgedeck pounding. performance. Extremely fast boats. No storage lockers in the hulls or cabins (storage is extremely important).perhaps too solidly. Yes.boat in trade winds. have well-engineered daggerboards. The layout.but it sounds as if that is not your intention if you are considering an Outremer. Roger.. clothes. I would think any of the boats you listed under 40 ft except for the privilege would be a little hard pressed to do a transpacific passage. Seemed like it would be a good performer. they are also very solidly built. Not much room however for a 42 ft boat in modern standards. I guess it depends on how you want to equip your boat. was decidedly not intended for charter for example. I guess my point is that. offshore capable. solid construction. televisions. lengthen the boat from (I believe) 33 to 36 feet to compensate. however. Outremers are amazing boats which certainly put the emphasis on performance and offshore capability. My only question is whether you would be able to acquire one in the proposed price range.in fact. as I recall. 25 gallon capacity for the water tanks for a 43 ft boat. A watermaker (plus some reliable method of catching rainwater off the bimini as a back-up) reduces dramatically the required tankage/weight required for storage of your major essential. They did. dvd's. Lot's of carrying capacity with wider hulls. There's a huge difference between a transpacific and transatlantic by the way.. the Solaris Sunstar 36 is one of his designs that is generally available for significantly less than 200 g's. as if oftimes said about catamarans. Of the boats you've listed it's probably one of unquestioned build quality and strength with probably the nicest interior. reasonable price. good bridgedeck shape (virtually all curves). folding bikes. excellent bridgedeck clearance and keep the weight out of the ends. Older models tend to have the saloon windows where it's difficult to see out and contribute to a lot of solar gain (heat). books. you can have (and canonly have) two of the following three attributes: space. etc.it would seem taking one of these out for a transpacific would be a bit like taking a ferrari camping. only one head compartment.
There are several american designers that use this construction technic.. we definitely have to be very careful in weight. Same is true of Wildcats. Here's the nicest one I've seen for a while. So yes they would be laden and either way far faster than I personally would want to go. it means you will be moving very well. not overloading her. we always watch our waterline.. A friend who is a yacht designer was seeing that their speeds during a Cape to Rio race were about the same as a farr 40.com/ Around US$150k in the Caribbean. but the St Francis can easily sail in the upper teens. In the high teens is the extreme that many owners have seen on tranoceanic passages. http://flica. If the boat has narrow hulls. Which allows more storage capasity.280 lb boat (optimal light ship displacement). which to me is excellent. there are catamarans today which are literally twice the weight of our boat and less sail area. we carry a light RIB. I have found my cat Having test sailed three boats of late I am in an airport in the USA returning from my trip and I have now ordered my new cat. I do know that I can do around 6 knots in 8 knots of wind. The St. I personally think though that the extremely high speeds are not as critical as good speeds in low winds. we're just picker'n'heck (actually we're getting sick of ourselves because of this). And yes. Waarship does a great job. we're hanging in there for a higher bridge deck clearance. and has a lot of sail area to displacement. this is a quote from another st francis just completing her circumnavigation "As we are completing the final leg of our circumnavigation. other than acts of nature (like lightening strikes). ready to go anywhere __________________ We looked at a Pahi 42 in Panama City Florida. I'd like to add to this discussion. we don't carry a generator (we are entirely solar powered). " They state their reason for their success is simple. pretty boat. and the st francis is 11 or 12 to 1. Can anyone name some other cold molded cat builders. Does anyone have cold molded cat for sale? I am shopping in this direction.just not what we're looking for. so is it really worth that much of a trade off for comfort vs speed? Why not get a cold molded built catamaran? They are fast and light. and she handles beautifully at sea. and it was more Spartan than we wanted for a full time liveaboard for the next 10 years or more (we're sort of old fat lazy and pampered). Wildcats are probably used on long passages quite successfully. Francis boats have been exemplary in performance: Our cruising speed is more than 75% of the wind speed. Wharrams are fast and smart boats . These boats have a low bridge deck clearance. an outremer will go faster than a st francis. which in the st francis is 1200 sq ft of sail pushing a 15. which is the majority of passages.ok. Wildcats are great boats. Because our hulls are so narrow though. . For longocean passages.blogspot. we've never suffered system failure or breakage. and your pics indicate a well maintained. and they have a massive interior.
. Wharrams are good boats for the money and can take you far. You will have a lot more $ left over to cruise with.The last two cats I tested were both very good and performed very well in light winds . The Pahi should do OK in light winds. A Wharram downwind in Heavy winds should make some good top speeds (for what it is). And sometimes not so good. At times it will have better performance than many new cruising cats.5 knot under the true wind speed on broad reaches .. The '88 40' Catana that you posted will perform much better. My 33' CSK will regularly do about 1. The Wharram should be able to carry a decent Payload.they were the Leopard 46 and the St Francis 50 . Not all cruising cat speeds are the same. The St Francis was the fastest of all the boats i have sailed in to date but the Leopard was not far behind. Wharram's are not noted for their "to weather " ability. Sometimes 2x. You want to go downwind in 15-25 knts with it. I knew that there was going to be a whole lot of fixing going . you need to be cautious with weight on ANY catamaran if you want to sail best. It was in reasonably good condition but I had no illusions. Kind Regard So here's my story. If you are planning your passages try to have the prevailing winds on or aft your beam unless you plan to motor a lot. For example. Remember.5x the speed of the Lagoon 380 in my harbor. The St Francis costs about 50% more than the Leopard and we have only praise for the the Leopard and the way the test sail was handled . These are good tradewind boats. You are right my 48 is faster and lighter than the 50 . (Motoring excluded) Don't be fooled by sleek lines and space age looking cabins they don't make the catamarans any faster. It will also cost a good deal more. Cheers for now! Your St Francis is the 48 and there are substantial differences between it and the St Francis 50. I have seen the 2 boats on the dry and really they might call it a different boat but in fact it has a expended sugar scoop .a 30+ year old Ericson 32.it seems to represent great value for money. Most these boats were assembled by amateur builders so certainly check out the construction quality before buying. i was at the factory when that happended There is no faster st francis than my 48 around and that all has to do with weight 11.5 tons versus 16 tons is a big difference but not so important to you.Never the less from my research the 48 is a well thought of boat and at the right price should easily sell.i have ordered the St Francis 50 and will be posting a video report of both the Leopard and The St Francis within a week. We were able to point 30 degrees apparent wind (on video) and we were sailing at about 0. the only differences between the 48 and the 50 are a longer sugar scoop and the rear underwater line was changed slightly due to a mistake in the mould. Last fall I bought my very first boat . We will be posting a video of both test sails.also on video.
For a boat your size you may be able to get by with just a simple sculling oar. What I would like is some sound. at the risk of sounding nasty let me say this. The ideas I have had so far. This is simply unacceptable. I don't know where you will be sailing. If you're going to chuckle that smug and sadistic chuckle and offer some tired salty-dawg comment about how owning a sailboat is a labor of love and you've got to pay your dues and put in the blood. 1. Buy a factory new boat. or if you insist on an engine. How does one own a boat and spend more time sailing than fixing? Thanks in advance! Take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't have a problem with that.. those who want company for their misery and those who gave up. I've already received these responses and I've noticed they come from two types . blah. go back to the old fashioned hank-on jib. By complete I mean rip out EVERYTHING that isn't hull and replace it with new. Go with less electronics. Pay interest instead of for parts and labor. 3. Now. blah. In the middle of a storm. but here is what makes sense to me.the things that break and usually at the worst possible times.blah. eight months later I can report that it was every bit as bad as I thought it would be. Buy an old boat with a solid hull and do a COMPLETE refit.those who sail dilapidated rust-buckets and those who sold their boats long ago. and most likely will break. but if it's just around the . sweat and tears.then just move on to the next post.onboard. for instance.. What I want to know is what is the best strategy to pursue to reduce these surprises to a rate that preserves my sanity. no engine problems. Instead of a furler with mechanical parts which could.. I reckon my ratio of maintenance time to sail time is at least 20 to 1. specific advice.simply is not possible.. 2. Well.. What irritates me is the surprises . Get the hell out of sailing because what I'm asking for . That is. No engine.. So here is my question: How does one minimize the amount of fixing that has to be done on a boat? I'm not talking about preventive maintenance. as I still havn't made the jump into actually owning a sailboat yet. But I knew that was part of the deal. One partial solution would be to go with less or simpler systems. Or when you've loaded up the boat with friends and are about to leave the dock.an acceptably low rate of equipment failure . I knew that if I was ever going to understand owning and maintaining a boat that sooner or later I would have to get my nose bloodied while fighting the good boating fight. an outboard would be a heck of a lot easier to fix in most cases than a diesel inside a cramped little compartment.
year? Been there doing that as we speak. Do you need that refridgeration/freezer system? Would a simple change in your diet. That is my day. That month makes all of this worth it. On a sailboat is the best way to take your time and explore the culture.. Two summers ago on our last boat we found a perfect anchorage off of a motu in Bora Bora and stayed put for an entire month. Simplify your living systems. but they're just suggestions and ideas for you to do what you want with them. I just simply listed some of the most common things I read about people having problems with on their boats. A little spear fishing for dinner. calm down with the toys and focus on what is needed for your lifestyle.. I spend more time at the boat yard where it is on the hard than I do at home. holding tank and all the associated plumbing? Wouldn't a bucket do an adequate job? There are liners made for buckets with odor and moisture absorbing things in them(basically cat litter) which are made to be able to be thrown in the trash if you're in an area where you can't chuck it. Everyone who owns a boat hates their boat and is going to give up sailing sometimes. a cheap-to-decent sextant(and learn how to use it). Fiji. For the 5 months after we sold Rover and until we bought Morning Sun we had friends with boats and didn't have to do one ounce of maintenance.bay. the Panama Canal. you can just bucket and chuck it. Do you really NEED that head. If you're going anywhere far away or unfamiliar. sweaty and I hate teak. Had a bad boat day. That said. and MAYBE a handheld gps just for piece of mind. that it is worth it. With out a sailboat I would never have seen Cuba. Don't buy a big boat for fun at the dock. We got up at dawn and had coffee and scotchfingers with nutella. Weather was perfect. But I know. I stay sunburned. Regiment: . there's no reason to have satnav/gps/chartplotters and all that other fancy stuff people say they can't do without.can't think of a way to describe it. Real job to the boat yard home to bed. New Caledona or Australia on a teacher's paycheck. Our view was. Friends with boats are the way to go if you don't want to work more than play. Luckily I am off for the rest of the summer after this week. There might be more you can simplify and some or all of these suggestions may not apply to you. the Kingdom of Tonga. Many do give up. just buy a decent set of paper charts. Went for a dive. French Polynesia. Vanuatu.Cook Islands . As others have suggested.. Marquesas. week. methods of food storage and a decent ice box make up for them? You did not say what you had on your boat specifically that was causing you problems. because I have done this before. if you're more than I think it's 3 miles but it may be a bit more out. Galapogos. Just a month ago bought a 44 gulfstar sloop that needs tons of work. Gulfstar 44 Sloop Simplify: Buy the smallest boat you need to do the job or the size you can afford the time and money to maintain. but don't throw out the refrigerator if you can't live without it. To the local dive shop to fill back up our tanks. Back to the boat for a nap and then reading during the hottest part of the day in the cockpit under the shade tree awning.
" . more worth doing than messing about in boats. Will that $50. He and his wife went through all the maintenance manuals for all the equipment and installed the checklists. I've located a rather tired 20 year old 43footer.. There is no substitute for knowing your boat. new electronics. No electric heads and that sort of thing. Ratty said. I was in a marina with my 1976 Pearson and had the pedestal torn apart and was trying to fish out some things I had dropped inside that I really needed (picture lots of sailorly lanuguage). .000. new deck hardware. They want $55. by any means. and keep smiling.well. I can't wait to change out the old hoses on the head. proper separation of duties.000 give me a reliable boat? Go.. and a cruiser lives with that or doesn't go cruising. Maybe you can enjoy maintaining a boat. I'll give you my specific project.259% more patience. now let's open it up to some wild speculation and shameless opinion mongering. inspections and cleaning into an annual calendar. you haul out and spend lots of time earning your priviledge of going cruising again.. new EVERYTHING. and much better peace of mind. Out of all the jobs. He had just finished his shakedown cruise. Then go cruising on a boat that you know thoroughly. new rigging. forementioned 30 year old boat is going to someone with a bit more maintenance know-how and at least 1.000 for a complete re-fit. Okay. you'd better change how you look at all aspects of it. and his list of problems--some serious--was much larger than mine on a brand new boat he had just paid over $300. new Hunter 46 (or so) docked in the slip beside me. I'm in Southeast Asia where labor costs are low. Rebuilt engine. said that if you truly like surfing . in "A Pirate Looks at 50". They end up with a regimented maintenance plan that results in overall less work.000 for a complete re-fit. that there is nothing. Darrel Smith provided his maintenance plan for living aboard a Privelege 37. work. If you truly like boating. and simplifying systems as much as possible. There is a structural level of broken stuff that is acceptable. Even if you buy a brand-new trawler. I would recommend option #2. The maintenance is part and parcel. when a guy with a shiny.000 US to buy. "I've located a rather tired 20 year old 43-footer. They want $55. you'd better enjoy paddling too. First. Jimmy Buffet. or assume Ratty meant keeping her painted too. When the level of broken stuff reaches a certain point. 'cause surfing includes a hell of a lot of paddling. I suggest we change the "in" to "with". I've budgeted another $50. A new boat will not eliminate the work. new plumbing. Philosophy: Although I paraphrase. I've budgeted another $50. taking your time to get the boat like you want it.000.In March/April Multihulls. it's the most "interesting". simply nothing. a skipper and crew who know pretty much the state of the ship.
What you really have to ask yourself is after paying $105. We wanted something for coastal sailing and weekends away. We sold it after 8 years for nearly the price we paid. __________________ Our first boat was a 5-year old Beneteau 30' which was very lightly sailed.com for anything in the region. A new motor for a private passenger airplane is usually worth 50-100% of the total airplane.e. The key is a very good independent survey. Interesting analogy and one used by airplane guys a lot. OK . We averaged about 7 1/2% yearly in annual maintenance and repairs (less to start.How many 1977 Toyotas have been operated in as severe as an environment as ours (high altitude or the ocean ) and are still purring along like new. A large supply of old airplanes with various levels of maintenance. Cars are a horrible analogy to planes and boats. You can't swap out powerplants and everything has to be FAA certified. We pay a premium to get them here. I suppose splurging on a hand-held GPS would have been fun but it sure wasn't necessary.000 dollar boat when you are done? Or is it an $80k boat? If a 32 foot Ericson is giving you maintenance nightmares than I would suggest a tired 43 footer is probably 2X or 3X the headache. If they are estimating $50k I would add 50% to that number. Buy used but reasonably new. There are folks who buy "great" $50k airplanes and then spend 80-100k on fixing them. 2. mooring.000 for a "decent" boat are willing to pay $600-$1000 a month all in with insurance.SOmeone mentioned airplanes so I have to comment.There is a lot to be said for what you are suggesting . BTW . Others will probably chime in and say that it can be done for less. Some are in sail away condition. bottom cleaning and maintenance for the priviliege of owning and operating a boat. What I learned in respect of keeping costs reasonable (and maximizing sailing time) was this: 1. After 8 years we sold it for $1000 less than what we paid. We are budgeting $500 a month for our little 26 footer. Since you sound like a person who wants to put it all in the hands of a boat yard crew you should be realistically prepared to pay what it takes. We paid about 50% ($40K less) of what the previous Owner paid. Do not take a survey from the marina where it is currently based.Set up a search on boats. That's the cost of the boat. There are a ton of similarities.i. Caveat sailor. simplest boat which meets your needs. Probably but budget more and be pleasantly surprised rather than budget less and cry every time something breaks. Let's say that you do spend $105. buy a tired boat and pay up front to have it refit. Do not take a survey from any one connected with the owner or has anything to gain from you having the boat. The electronics included a handheld VHF and an AM/FM radio. Do not take a survey from the boat yard that is going to do the work. more when she hit 10 years .000 boats for sale in Asia. The question is . Regarding reliable Toyotas. BTW . Yes labor is cheap in Asia but parts don't come from Asia.Is it a $105. There are a lot of $100.000 for a 43 foot boat. Buy the smallest.
. with a modern underbody.more flexible sail combinations offset by more complicated sail-handling and larger sail inventory requirement. storage and comfort.. you are asking about three separate things. They are an affectation. Breaks in critical systems can end up damaging perfectly good equipment at the same time. Fix things before they're totally clapped out and break.DOUBLE-ENDERS: . a style thing that does not help a boat in any conditions but which robs performance. and a spirited debate. The boat looked great but basically $275K would get you a 1 or 2 year old boat. Ketch Rig ? 4. 4. He sold it a year after the refit for $125K. more flexible but also more complicated. Each of the features you’ve cited will. 1. Double-Ended (canoe stern) Hulls ? 2.as with Cutter. nor expertise to offer a detailed analysis of the questions . I had an acquaintance who spent $150K refitting a 15-year old $125K boat for a total investment of $275K. I replaced the mainsheet blocks (and upgraded to nice Shaeffers) before they needed replacing. you might be looking at four questions: What are the pro’s and con’s of . The combination of Cutter-Ketch on a Canoe body ? Personally. __________________ This is the kind of discussion that could fill a book. I’m not particularly fond of any of these layouts. Preventative maintenance. and etc. 2. Cutter Rig ? 3. there are boats that are cutter or ketch rigged double-enders. windvanes. . and volume (storage). I have neither the time. To answer your simple question the answer is 'Yes'. KETCH RIG: . I look forward to some excellent detailed replies (we have some true “experts” aboard). He could have 'freshened up' the boat nicely for $30K.but will also have their detractors.more difficult to utilize the stern & lazarette for such things as boarding ladders. Be strategic if you refit. CUTTER RIG: . CANOE BODY .wave-splitting ability countered by reduced reserve buoyancy. 1. It seems to me. As Gordon so aptly said. seaworthiness. In the big picture. have their proponents . I upgraded a few key systems in this fashion. certainly. I cannot imagine what good things that a sailor knowlegeable about yacht . being a double ender (at least as they are typically designed for cruising boats) does absolutely nothing good for a boat. double enders and Cutter or Ketch rigs (a boat can be a cutter or a ketch but not both at the same time). 3. 3.old).but will start the ball rolling with a couple of basic observations: Each of these will add cost to a comparable Bermuda-Rigged Sloop.
a reefing bowsprit (a bowsprit that could be withdrawn in heavy going). Fractional rigs tend to give the most drive per square foot of sail area. when sail handling hardware was primitive and sails were far more stretchy than they are today. Somewhere in the 1950's or 1960's there was a shift in these definitions such that a sloop only flew one headsail and a cutter had multiple headsails and mast position became irrelevant. The geometry of these running backstays typically allows the boat to be tacked without tacking the running backstays. multiple headsails and in older definitions. With the invention of lower stretch sailcloth and geared winches. fractional rigs intended for offshore use. Without a jibstay to drag the Genoa across. Traditionally the sloop rig was a rig with a single mast located forward of 50% of the length of the sailplan. For the sake of this discussion. That said there are some good double ended cruisers out there dispite their double ends. making them even easier to sail. Since you seem unclear about the definition of the various capabilities I am including the following which was exerpted from something that I wrote for another purpose. I assume we are discussing the modern definition of a sloop and a cutter. In a fractional rig. One of the major advantages of a fractional rigs is the ability when combined with a flexible mast. will often have running backstays that are only rigged in heavy weather once the mainsail has been reefed. Historically. Sloops and cutters are the most common rigs being produced today. sloops are generally easier to tack. In a masthead rig the forestay and jib originates at the masthead. Increasing backstay tension does a lot of things on a fractional rig: it tensions the forestay flattening the jib. In this traditional definition a sloop could have multiple jibs. Today sloops are generally closer winded and easier to handle. the forestay originated some fraction of the mast height down from the masthead. Their smaller jibs and larger mainsail sailplan are easier to power up and down. With less hardware sloops are less expensive to build. the smaller headsails and mainsail of a traditional cutter were easier to handle and with less sail stretch. This allows quick depowering as the wind increases and allows a fractional rig to sail in a wider wind speed range than masthead rig without reefing. which flattens the mainsail and opens the leech of the sail. Historically. Sloops come in a couple varieties. cutters quickly lost their earlier advantage. cutters still have their ardent fans for offshore use. . allowed earlier cutters to be more weatherly (sail closer to the wind) than the sloops of the day. better materials and design approaches have pretty much eliminated the need for running backstays. That said. Their smaller jibs are easier to tack and they reef down to a snug masthead rig. masthead and fractional. Today they are often proportioned so that they do not need overlapping headsails. although arguably requiring a bit more sail trimming skills. While fractional rigs used to require running backstays. sloops were traditionally fractionally rigged. Although the opinion of those how have truly spent time studying alternative rigs for offshore and coastal use has shifted from the cutter rig to fractional sloop rigs. and induces mast bend.design would say about a double end. In current usage these terms are applied quite loosely as compared to their more traditional definitions. is the ability to use the backstay to control mast bend. Cutters had a rig with a single mast located 50% of the length of the sailplan or further aft.
the after mast is forward of the rudder. there is no single right answer when it comes to yawls and ketches either. there is a real limit (typically cited 10% to 15%) to how much a Genoa can be roller furled and still maintain a safely flat shape. Dragging a Genoa over the babystay makes tacking a bit more difficult and slower. it rarely works out that the staysail is properly proportioned. Because of the need to keep the slots of both headsails open enough to permit good airflow. While that is the theory. They tend to be more dependent on large headsails and so are harder to tack and also require a larger headsail inventory if performance is important. Also when these sails are proportioned small enough to be used as heavy weather sails. In theory. the presence of multiple jibs allows the forestaysail to be dropped or completely furled. Tacking these large Genoas through the narrow slot between the jibstay and forestay is a much harder operation than tacking a sloop. Cutters make a less successful rig for coastal sailing. which had pretty much dropped out of popularity during a period from the end of WWII until the early 1970's. the geometry of these running backstays typically requires that the running backstays be tacked whenever the boat is tacked. and the full staysail.e. will often have running backstays that are only rigged in heavy weather once the mainsail has been reefed. the headsails on a cutter cannot be sheeted as tightly as the jib on a sloop without choking off the airflow in the slot. and when combined with a reefed mainsail. When a Yawl or a Ketch has multiple jibs it is referred to a Yawl or a Ketch with multiple headsails. Masthead sloops tend to be simpler rigs to build and adjust.Masthead rigs came into popularity in the 1950's primarily in response to racing rating rules that under-penalized jibs and spinnakers and so promoted bigger headsails. cutter rigs intended for offshore use. Unlike the fractional rig. having a permanently rigged and ready to fly small. This somewhat reduces the advantage of a cutter rig (i. Mast bend is harder to control and so bigger masthead rigs will often have a babystay that can be tensioned to induce mast bend in the same way as a fractional rig does. Either rig can have either a single jib or multiple jibs. Like fractional rigs. (either too small for normal sailing needs and for the lower end of the high wind range (say 20-30 knots) or too large for higher windspeeds) and of a sail cloth that makes sense as a heavy weather sail or which is too heavy for day to day sailing in more moderate conditions. Cutters. Since cutters are generally associated with the less efficient underbodies that are typical of offshore boats this is less of a problem that it might sound. As a result the cutter rig is often cited as the ideal offshore rig. . Generally cutters tend to have snug rigs that depend on larger Genoas for light air performance. came back into popularity with a vengeance in the early 1970's as an offshore cruising rig. A ketch is a rig with two masts. As a result many of today's cutters have a removable jibstay that can be rigged in heavier winds. boats are systems and when it comes to one size fits all answers. these rigs will often develop a lot of weather helm when being sailed in winds that are too slow to use a double reefed mainsail. While roller furling allows a wider wind range for a given Genoa. Cutters also give away some performance on deep broad reaches and when heading downwind because the Genoa acts in the bad air of the staysail. A Yawl is a rig with two masts and the after mast (the mast that is further aft or further back in the boat) is aft of the rudder. results in a very compact heavy weather rig (similar to the proportions of a fractional rigged sloop with a reef in the mainsail). It is considered lubberly to refer to that rig as a 'cutter ketch' or 'cutter Yawl'. heavy weather jib). Yawls and Ketches: As I said at the start of this discussion. Cutters these days generally do not point as close to the wind as similar sized sloops.
Multiple masts. Stretch was minimized so the sails powered up less in a gust and although multiple small sails are less efficient. and low friction blocks. In a time of stone internal ballasting. Sloops are particularly better than Multi spar rigs such as Yawls and Ketches on a beat or on a run. Ketches. came into widespread usage in racing. breaking a rig into a lot of smaller sails made sense. This means it would be better in lighter air but it potentially might heel more. meaning that one sail is operating in the disturbed and turbulent air of the sails in front of it. This popularized the masthead rig and the yawl. mizzen staysails. They continued to be popular under the CCA rule as well. A sloop rig would tend to be taller for a given sail area. Sloops work best on boats with reasonably modern underbodies. Both are more efficient and so can point higher and make less leeway. the sail area of jibs and mizzens were pretty much ignored in the rating. There are also issues of down draft interference. But multiple masts also meant more weight and much more drag. which also greatly reduces the efficiency of multi mast rigs. light weight. BUT in the predominantly reaching races that were typical of offshore races of that era they offered a number of advantages. which are great reaching sails. First of all on a reach the sails are not acting in the slipstream of each other and so each contributes a fair amount of drive for the drag produced. That means that a sloop will be faster or will require less sail area to go the same speed. high strength. or need to be depowered or reefed sooner as the breeze picks up. Downwind mizzens also are a problem. and high drag in relatinship to stability.I lump yawls and ketches together here because the share many similar characteristics. Here again a ketch has the advantage of having a taller mizzen and so can fly a bigger mizzen staysail.low stretch line. In this case the mizzen is forcing the main or foresail to operate in their bad air and so again the mizzen is not adding as much to the speed of the boat as they are taking away. On a yawl going to windward. in one form or another. Ketch and Yawl rigs work best with heavier boats with less efficient underbodies such as full keels and deeply Vee'd hull forms. The yawl or ketch rig's lack of windward ability is less of a liability when placed on a hull that similarly lacks . this was important as it maximized the amount of drive while minimizing heeling. These hull forms often need a lot more drive and the hull is the limiting factor in how fast or how close-winded the boat will be. multiple masts meant more luff length and more luff length meant more drive forces to windward. the hulls were so inefficient that the loss of sail efficiency did not hurt much. allowed boats to have more sail area that would be spread out closer to the water. This is because the mizzen is sailing in really turbulent air and has to be over trimmed to keep from luffing which can effectively act as an airbrake. They are first seen in the 1920's as a rule beater under the Universal and International rules. the mizzenmast and sail generally actually produce more drag than they do drive. In the days before winches. along with bowsprits and boomkins. In theory. Also with the advent of lightweight low stretch sailcloths. Under these rules. It might be helpful to compare yawl and ketch rigs to sloops. have been around for a very long time. Yawls really came into being as race rule beaters. There was a basis for not measuring the sail area of a yawl under these rules. The broad generalities are that for a given sail area a sloop rig will generate a greater drive for the amount of drag generated pretty much on all points of sail. This is slightly less of the case on a ketch where the size of the mizzen is large enough to provide a larger percentage of the drive. It made it easier to manhandle the sails and make adjustments.low stretch sail cloth.
ketch and yawl rigs push the weight of the spars closer to the ends of the boat which can increase pitch angles. Also as on a sloop. To me the only justification for the yawl rig today is solely romantic charm. albeit. It is also often difficult to get proper aft staying on the mizzen of a ketch or yawl as well. or a sense of history. It is not so true of modern sloops. the ability of a ketch or yawl to carry more sail with less heeling moment also makes it a natural for a heavier hull form which often has comparatively little stability when compared to the amount of drive required to make a heavy boat move. Several more were built like that and they quickly proved problematic. both on broad reaches and in lighter air. but for sheer sailing ability a yawl or ketch is a relic of another time. These structural issues are particularly pronounced on Yawls where the mast is so far aft in the boat that on a traditional boat it is hard to get adequate staying base widths. It is often difficult to properly stay a ketch or yawl rig as the mainmast backstay often need to be routed around the mizzen and the forward load component of the mizzen if often taken by the top of the mainmast. I heard the story of how the Bristol 40 became a yawl.the Bristol 40 yawl. to hove to. Bristol was building a 24 foot Corsair and they took a mast and rigging from a Corsair and used that for the mizzen. small adjustments are made moving forward again to reduce downdraft interference between the sails. Then there are structural issues. . fine tuning. Much is made of the ketch or yawl's ability to be balanced to help with self-steering. Without hesitation the potential buyer was told that they happened to have a yawl that was almost finished and would be available in a few weeks. if you live in an area that is typically windier and you like traditional boats. The taller rigs of a sloop tend to increase roll angles while slowing roll rates. I am not clear why that is assumed to be so as there are more sails to trim and more interaction between the individual sails. if you are interested in sailing performance or ease of handling. a sloop rig makes more sense. Sailed with the same degree of precision. With modern slab reefing gear. or the ability to simply sail under Jib and mizzen in a blow. in conclusion. a ketches and yawls require more fine tunning than a sloop but on the whole about the same amount of fine tuning as a cutter. In a properly designed sloop balance is just not all that hard to achieve. Also. Many of the early fiberglass yawls were very poorly engineered. Almost at the same time came an enquiry about the availability of a Bristol 40 yawl for prompt delivery for a different person. The performance of all three rigs. or an obsolete racing rule. A block of wood was glassed onto the hull for a mast step and a hole cut in the deck for the mast to go through and Voila. Still. As on a sloop. Pearson with bit of a problem. can be improved by the ability to carry kites of different types. reefing is far more easily accomplished than dropping the mainsail to the deck on a yawl or ketch. You often hear people say that yawls and ketches are simpler rigs to handle. you start trimming from the forward most sail moving aft.windward ability. Modern (especially fractional) sloops can be easily depowered and that reduces the need to reef. then a ketch or yawl is an interesting albeit complicated rig. while perhaps slowing pitching rates. As the boat was nearing completion the prospective owner bailed out leaving Mr. This is one aspect that a traditional ketch or yawl has over a traditional sloop. It seems that Clint Pearson (who owned Bristol) had started to build a Bristol 40 sloop on order for a particular customer. Anyway. In terms of comfort at sea. I do not mean this to be a put down to those who love historic rigs. Eventually the design was engineered to solve the problems that occurred on the first few yawls.
Also. Lucia and St. Abacos.. Vincent. I did the deal on my catamaran in the Bahamas which meant that there were no taxes. but I had to create and maintain an offshore corporation that owns the yacht. It is easy and relatively cheap for US boats to go places. Since I had not lived in the USA for twenty years.. If you are interested in a Leopard.. Some states have no sales tax.. __________________ Dave Exit Only http://maxingout. Thomas and registered it in St.Respectfully.. Marteen.. If you are going to be cruising for only a couple of years. Thomas at a friend's address. then it may make sense to do the deal offshore and register/document the vessel offshore as well. Years later. but they have residency requirements. I lived on Exit Only for $500 to $1000 per month on my basic expenses. there be dragons. I paid a few dollars each year to update the registration for the three years that I had it in the Caribbean. or you have to have been there on January 1st. I purchased my first Caribbean sailboat in St. If you are headed offshore long-term. does not.. and since I was going sailing around the world. The real question is where are you planning to go and what your registry buys you. it didn't make sense to purchase a boat in the USA and pay taxes in the USA on a boat that wasn't going to be in the USA anyway. . the places to go are around the Moorings bases. You have to have been there for a year. Jeff There are a couple of things you can do to minimize the tax impact of buying a yacht.. Tortola. then it probably doesn't matter that much what you do. My Freedom Chips go a lot farther when my anchor is down in paradise. I keep hearing.. Tortola has the most boats. Please correct me if I am wrong. St.. you could get an address one of those two places for a month if you are purchasing Be careful here. Often other US flagged vessels have been there and the local customs officials won't necessarily be making it up as they go along. St. Belize. or .. Over time the costs of maintaining an offshore corporation mount up.. Living offshore longterm is looking better by the week.com North Carolina. Rhode Island....
Another possibility is buying a charter boat that is being "phased out" for other reasons. the main issues are cost and time. but I know several people who have them and they are OK. The trick is to buy a boat STILL in charter and then walk it through Moorings "phase out" with your own surveyor (You bet Moorings will do this!). The fact is you have three options with Cats: 1.. And the broker was peering out the window commenting how hard it was raining. They probably get the best deal selling it through the Moorings broker. There was a boat in St. but versus building. Leopard Owners Group. Lucia recently that phased out after less than a year in service. No comments like. The truth is that boats who sit and are not used often have more problems than ones that are used regularly. probably your best bet.. go talk to the folks on the Yahoo groups site. there are more used cats in Florida. modern charter boats are designed for low maintenance. 3.) Build one. Lauderdale area.. They do have a personal property tax on boats but if the boat is out of state on Jan 1 you don't have to pay. particularly if they are trading up to a larger boat.. I'm sure you could find a good ex-charter but I'd be more apt in finding one through a private owner who had properly maintained the vessel on a regular basis. you may get the boat of your dreams with everything optimized (trade-offs) specifically for you.) Buy one from a little old lady! Everyone loves this one. I figure my Bahamas cruising permit is the tax I pay. The thing to do IMHO if you want a Leopard is to buy it from The Moorings..) Buy a charter boat and refit her. etc. . Remember. The positive. primarily the Ft. not the Moorings. And the boat I was interested in ended up having the starboard side transmission removed not for the past week like the broker stated but for months. They may ask to see that you have paid taxes somewhere else. Could be some significant cost here. There are often yachts coming out of charter in BVI and other popular charter bases if you want an ex-charter boat.. It definitely answered my question as to why many of these cats smelled funky with mold as well as signs of worn upholstrey from the extended use. I also noticed the vast majority of these used charter cats that were 4 sale were left open. There are pros and cons and you can read some pretty strong opinions in this forum against charter boats. And it'll usually will have a lot less wear and tear both cosmetically and mechanically. Owners can take the boat and sell it at anytime depending on their personal issues. but the number of people actually able to find a gently used CAT is very small. For the most part. these boats are owned by people. After listening to the brokers talk about how they professionally maintain these ex-charter boats to a tee I noticed it started raining.. I disagree about buying charter boats. and they can be fairly easily restored. Here it was raining buckets and the hatches on many of these boats were wide open. Hey.. Just my 2 cents from experience.NC does have a sales tax 3% on boats I believe.. Hmmm. Within the US. 2. Don't take my word for it though.. Finding an awesome Cat like a newer Leopard almost impossible. let's close those boats up. I think they can be a real value. but if you bring a documented boat in from out of state they don't seem to pursue you for sales taxes. When I was shopping for a cat three plus years ago I flew down to the BVI's and checked out several ex-charter boats.
The City of New Bern annexed our marina without notifying the boat owners (we didn't own the land so they had no obligation to notify us). Not no taxes but sure less taxes. If you had bought the boat from a dealer in NC then they would be happy to deduct what ever you paid in NC from the "Use" tax bill. I surprised them the next year. as "an old taxi". I found a marina in another county and not in a city.read through the files at LeopardCat : Leopard Catamaran Owners Group I believe it would be more accurate to align a boat that was designed for the charter market. . That was an extra thousand dollar surprise. Many other states want a "use" tax if you move it to that state and have not owned it for 6 months or more and did not pay the equivalent of their tax in NC. Be careful to put it in a Marina that is not in a city limits or you can get stuck for city taxes as well as county. It has no sales tax on used boats purchased from private individuals. I think that would be an issue only if you moved it from the state. The concentration on bunks versus stowage is a major problem that would need to be amended for a cruising boat. This is still lower than 6% "use" or Sales tax on 300K. For instance if you moved the boat to Florida they would want 6% "Use" tax. I'm not sure about residency requirements. NC has a sales tax of 3% maximum of $1500 for boats purchased at retail. In NC you will get nailed for personal property taxes if you keep the boat in the state over a January 1. My taxes run about $1300 on a boat I paid 260K for 3 years ago.
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