By Syed Jaffer

He gave his life for the nuclear program. He was more for the peaceful use of the technology his argument was that since we don’t have fossil fuel and possibility of hydal-power, we have no option but to go for nuclear option. Sure he did some loose talk by saying that if there can be a Christian bomb, a Hindu bomb an atheist bomb and a Jew bomb why not an Islamic bomb. His program was a very ambitious one. By 1985 we were supposed to have three reactors at Karachi and coastal areas. Several more reactors were envisaged in Punjab and north, some of which were of fast breeder type and some were capable of desalination. We were to have fuel refining and reprocessing plants also. We have in the north the necessary ore rich in the required element to be used as raw material what we would get at the end was complete nuclear fuel cycle. For the reprocessing plant we had a confirmed agreement with France. Not only the Americans got Bhutto hanged they also were able to get the foreign minister of France sacked. After hanging Bhutto, Zia did not peruse for the agreement with France and obeyed the Americans. He took an oath. He died defending his oath, his country, and the constitution of his country. He could have bargained and lived a luxurious life in some so called kingdom. Riaz ul Khateeb and many-many more were here all along his trial to plead with the military dictator to take ZAB with them. Disobedience of Clause 6 of the constitution of Pakistan is high treason. It is said that ZAB declared at some occasion during the trial that “the dictator has no choice but to hang me if he does not I will hang him for high treason.” The problem with our country is that people at high places are willing to change oath at every turn of the event. This book is collection of blogs at Orkut. The comments will help me add more information about the great leader who still lives in the hearts of his admirers. I can recall one speech of Mr. Bhutto when he makes a chain by his index fingers and says “me and my people are like this whether in love or hatred I will be in their hearts for generations to come”. These may not be exact words but this is what I remember.

Contents

01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15

bhuttos acheivements...pdf East PakistanThe end game.pdf was zulfi bhutto behind disintegeration of east pa.pdf Bhutto's speech to the un.pdf He was a GR8 man.pdf Hail Ziaul Haq; Bhutto got what he deserved!.pdf What's so special about Bhutto.pdf Zulfi Bhutto - Quaid-e-Awam or Traitor.pdf Need your few words abut Bhutto Sahab.pdf Why is it all praise for Bhutto.pdf Husna Shaikh.pdf BENAZIR'S INTERVIEW ON JAWABDEH.pdf Does Mussharraf deserve to govern the country.pdf MUSHARAF...BLAME ZULFIQAR THAT!!!.pdf WHHT BAD THINGS HAVE U HEARD ABT ZULFIKAR ALI.pdf

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=2444764615473548407&na=1&nst=1 topic: bhuttos acheivements.. bhuttos acheivements.. 1/28/2006 6:10 AM name any one of his acheivements?? i cant think of any anyone wanna share

Flex 1/28/2006 10:03 PM chairman's biggest acievement waz dat he made masses aware of their rights ... and he re unit da country after dacca fall

Umer 1/29/2006 4:22 AM Building of the much needed Steel Mill by acceptance of aid from USSR, the very backbone of a nation's construction. Faraz 1/31/2006 3:22 AM only 2 acheivememnts WOW thats alot..NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Flex 1/31/2006 4:29 AM He Made the people of this country understand POLITICS.. he gave the concept of the power of MASSES... He Gave us the Constitution... He strengthened the idea of Federation... He gave us the Nuclear Dream... He gave us the Foreign Policy.. He Gave us a Martyr.. Sayed Faysal 1/31/2006 4:37 AM he is the BIIGGEST ASS in the history of pakistani politics and that is what he did took all the money in his ass hole..... ~ KДmig™~♥! 1/31/2006 4:46 AM you r such a big LOSER Kami

Sayed Faysal kami... 2/1/2006 8:37 AM Perhaps u wud like 2 elaborate y Bhutto is such a big 'asshole' and y u think he robbed Pakistan of more treasures than any other politician? Faraz ...or do u just meant to spit at him just for the sake of hatred?

2/2/2006 11:24 AM He very cleverly managed to become an elected dictator. He fooled our uneducated masses into believing that they were all actually going to get bread, clothes, and shelter! Even the US, UK and other 1st world nations have not been able to achieve this as yet, and here this son of a bitch actually got the ppl to think he was gonna do it. Shehzad Bhutto, as I have said repeatedly, was a man who came into power by fooling the masses. His only vision was to make this nation so dependent on him, that they could turn to nobody else. And of course he did want his family to take over and rule Pak politics for generations to come. A genius, no doubt, unfortunately though, an evil one. 2/5/2006 3:12 AM fooling the people into voting 4 him? hmmmm....that's something new. Faraz 2/5/2006 4:39 AM no doubt Bhutto is better then others

Benazir 2/5/2006 8:54 AM ok what was his achievment tell me one really gud one .....and by the way if he was such a gr8 leader why was he hung after all ..........listen u have some respect some social relationships with other countries well hello UNO ..... u cant just speak ur shit in there ....people wake up i dont say oppose him but he is not to be treated like a GOD .....i mean y the hell any leader should be compared with mohammad ali jinnah.....if any one here wants a real discussion most welcome do communicate but i can not do if u r sum bhotto worshiper.............damn him 2/5/2006 1:23 PM shehzad kami wel said i hate bhutto now .. but yes he got hanged thank God , bhutto and his family are were and always will be theives..

~ KДmig™~♥!

Flex @ Sanaullah 2/6/2006 1:04 AM Listen sana-ullah why don't u pipe-down ure stupid little ass, you bastard son of a male prostitute. No one is swearing at u, so i'll adivse you to keep ure emotions to ureself, and perhaps give a second-thought to ure writing. You said u wud kill any1 who spoke against bhutto--well guess what? THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN. Shehzad You're not gonna kill any1, and ure not gonna swear at ny1. Watch yourself pal! If u want to express ure love for bhutto (which i hope is hetrosexual), and jump up and down screaming 'bhutto zindabad', ure most welcome to do so. However, start watching the way u talk to ppl. No1 is in the mood to listen to ure bullshit, when he/she is having an imp, and mature discussion.

@STUPIDS 2/6/2006 3:26 AM WHATEVER STUPIDS SAID I GIVE DAMN TO THEM, GEAY BHUTTO...... BHUTTO ZINDABAD!!! REGARDS KASHIF SARMAD Kashif Stop bitching u guys! 2/6/2006 5:52 AM So Shehzad u don't like Bhutto, u dunno hell about history. plz perform an unbiased analysis on his era compared to the policies of his successors and predecessors n u might see y we r in favour of it...no offense yaar, but u shud do that first before howling at the moon 'bout things beyond ur comprehension. And Kami 2/6/2006 5:55 AM Just cause he was hanged, doesn't actually mean that he deserved it (deja'vu neone?) He was hanged cause that ******* dictator Zia wanted to claim his seat and cause his policies had angered that piece-of-crap USA that wanted Pakistan to stay it's lap-dog. 2/6/2006 7:18 AM faraz sahib u r talkin bout the god dam,n history of this country ....just tell me for what reason we dont go to UNO for this kashmir problem...........and by the way dont be a bitch of bhotto theek hai ...he is not ur PIYO he is an ass and just an ass...and talkin bout zia common wake up atom bomb???? economy common who am i takin to u dont even know any thing

Faraz

Faraz

~ KДmig™~♥!

2/7/2006 7:01 PM Bhutto's an ass! Happy Kami? Faraz U can go all night banging ur goddamn head 'bout how Bhutto's an ass without ONCE giving a reason 4 it. So keep humiliating urself...i'll just sit by and enjoy. 2/8/2006 4:39 AM GUYS, I AM SHOCKED TO SEE INSANE BEHAVIOUR FROM YOU. I THINK WE MUST HAVE MANNERS REGARDING TO OUR COMMENTS. SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT TO BUT IT SHOULD REFLECT YOUR EDUCATION AND MANNERS. I AM SORRY TO SAY I HAVENT SEEN IT YET. PLZ COMMENT WTH FACTS AND FIGURES ABOUT ANYTHING & ANYONE. ABUSING DEAD PERSON IS IMMORAL ACT. PLZ AVIOD IT. REGARDS KASHIF SARMAD Exacly my point Kashif! 2/8/2006 8:21 PM Some ppl here r going 'round screamin' how Bhutto was so horrible without even once telling why that's so! We've got his achievements posted all over this community, Kami. Go take a look. If u still don't like Bhutto, that's ur call. But don't insult Bhutto without even knowing what he did in his era 2/9/2006 10:27 AM hi guyz, nice discussion going on, I think , I read all the veiws about Zulfiqar Ali bhutto, i am not saying against anyone or how anyone thinks....but against all odds... I must say, he is the one who gave us the respect, power in the world community, and the biggest of all achievments is '' Pakistan's Nuclear Power Plant'' and b/c of that we have standing in this world...... byee bhuttos acheivements.. 2/9/2006 10:31 AM ur every one r fooool and stupid , idoit and mean who dosent know acheivements of bhutto ,,,and who balme on bhutto ,, i will compare them on tip of my foot who balme on greatest leader and revolutionist of the time, who said once at the top of white house ,, mr. kennedy white house is beneath of my fooot,, bhutto gives such a wonderful constitution , that no boday can even imgine of itt , bhutto makes pakisatni neaulear power ,,,other wise u will be on beaneath the foot of indians,, just think and talk ,, if u reads the history , and books , u will

Kashif

Faraz

ABDUL RAB

cute

see every truth ful person hangs on,, becaz , this world is the place of liars ,and hypocrate, truth ful can never be survive there 2/9/2006 11:49 AM mehr & kami juz shut ur ass & do 1 thing go buy a cd of (Zulfikar Ali Bhutto history) u will know every thing if u both hav a mind ........ _!_ brainless ppl Addy Bhuttos Achievements 2/9/2006 11:59 AM Economic Reforms Order Nationalisation of Key Industries - January 3, 1972 Announcement of Labour Policies - February 10, 1972 Workers would participate in Profits Old Age Pensions and Group Insurance Land Reforms - 1st March, 1973 Ceiling reduced from 500 Acres to 150 Acres of irrigated land and 1000 Acres to 300 Acres for semi-irrigated land. All lands in excess of 100 Acres allocated to Govt. Servants confiscated and redistributed. The Law Reform Ordinance - giving effect to the recommendations of the Law Reforms Commission. - 14th April, 1972 Martial Law Lifted 21st April, 1972 Simla Agreement Signed Pakistan to get back 5000 square miles of territory occupied in 1971 war. India and Pakistan to respect line of control in Kashmir without prejudice to Pakistan's claim. - 2nd July, 1972 National Book Foundation established - 24th September, 1972 Inaugurated Pakistan's first Nuclear Power Plant at Karachi. - 28th November, 1972 Establishment of NDFC - 5th February, 1973 Establishment of Quaid-E-Azam University - 9th February, 1973 Constitution of Pakistan passed unanimously - 12th April, 1973 Establishment of Port Qasim Authority - 27th June, 1973 Elected Prime Minister of Pakistan - 14th August, 1973 Identity Cards for Citizens - 28th July, 1973 Agreement for repatriation of 93,000 POWs - 28th August, 1973 Administrative Reforms Order - september, 1973 Laid Foundation Stone of Pakistan Steel Mill - 30th December, 1973 Nationalisation of Banks - 1st January, 1974 Establishment of Allama Iqbal Open University - 21st May, 1974 Islamic Summit at Lahore - 22 February, 1975 Inaugurated Pakistan's First Seerat Conference - 3rd March, 1976 2/9/2006 12:02 PM Bhutto's finest hour came in the reconstruction of Pakistan after the traumatic dismemberment of Pakistan upon the fall of Dhaka on 16th December, 1971. He successfully put the derailed nation back on the track by rebuilding national institutions. His lasting achievement was the unanimous adoption of the Constitution in 1973. He established the Pakistan Steel Mills, Heavy Mechanical Complex Taxila, Port Qasim Authority, Quaid-e-Azam University, Allama Iqbal Open University, Karachi Nuclear Power Plant; thus, fortifying the prosperity, integrity and security of Pakistan. Using his experience as Foreign Minister, Bhutto cemented Pakistan's relation with Afro-Asian and Islamic countries and by 1976 had emerged as the Leader of the Third World. As an author, he brilliantly advocated the cause of hewers of wood and drawers of water of the Third World. Bhutto was the founder of Pakistan's Nuclear Program. Under his guidance and leadership as Minister for Fuel, Power and Natural Resources, President and Prime Minister, Pakistan developed into the unique Muslim State with a nuclear capability for which he paid with his life. In his book "If I am Assassinated" written from the Death Cell, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto revealed how Kissinger had said "We will make an example of you". COMPARE THIS WITH WHATS HAPPENING TODAY. WHAT OUR RULERS DID AFTER BAJAUAR AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND HOW BIG A LEADER HE WAS. 2/9/2006 12:04 PM Now can someone please tell me with facts and figures why should we not love him? Please talk with some logic and facts. Taimur

Taimur

Taimur

2/9/2006 10:30 PM HATS OFF TO TAIMUR BHAI! WELL DONE YAAR. REALLY THIS IS IMPRESSIVE WORK DONE BY YOU MAN. KEEP IT UP. REGARDS KASHIF SARMAD Kashif 2/10/2006 6:50 AM so that clearly establishes Bhutto's credentials as gulliver in the land of lilliputians. though, I see this merely as a list. it is the consequences of Gulliver's actions that need to be debated. maybe we will get there someday. Hussain till then, shukran Taimoor. atleast the pms'ing pricks will go back to their hovels for a while. Wow...... 2/10/2006 9:27 AM Hi taimur, It's really a great work. I think now they will understand it. ABDUL RAB thanks take care byee 2/12/2006 8:53 AM he made us nuclar power,steeel mill.hee introduced nationall identity card.islamic conference. and many others Wasib 2/12/2006 11:12 PM i think other presidents have done equally better or more better thats the fewest acheivements for a man in complete power...i mean his acheivements are written in two posts WOW im impressed ... NOT ...acheivements aren't this shit u write here but what ever i donot care as far as i know he wasnt a shaheed he was hanged like the rat he was Flex @above 2/13/2006 1:30 AM hahaha. Grow up kid. or get some life. say something logical. Taimur Achievements 2/13/2006 7:25 AM Z.A. Bhutto was the first to start Pakistan nuclear program Salute to Z.A.Bhutto. Fähäd look at ur face mehr when u say that 2/13/2006 11:35 AM huhh i heard all the filth abt the only MAN This country has producedddddd yea i do accept that he had some weakness's n flaus but the only thing that makes me his fan is that he was a NAR BACHA not like ur other impotent leaders who dun even have guts tu portest against american attacksss yaakhh thoooo FreNzy he had attitude he had pride a leader reflects a nationn ....ur PM nawaz shareef took off his shoes n socks in white house ,,,had it been BHUTTO he would have slammed the bloody americans wid his own shoesssss.....

Kashif

@mehr 2/13/2006 9:46 PM YOU ARE LOSSER! YOU PEOPLE ONLY KNOW TO CRITISIZE. YOU DONT KNOW HISTORY, YOU DONT KNOW POLITICS AND YOU EVEN DONT KNOW THE CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN. THE PERSON WHO EVEN DONT KNOW ABOUT HIS/HER RIGHTS IN HER OWN COUNTRY, WE CANT EXPECT ANYTHING MORE. ITS BETTER TO READ ABOUT BHUTTO. LET ME SUGGEST YOU THE BOOK WRITTEN BY STANLEY WOLPERT "ZULFI BHUTTO OF PAK". HE IS NOT MEMBER OF PPP, HE IS ENGLISHMAN BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU ONLY TRUST ENGLISH PEOPLE. FASHION HAI BABA. REGARDS KASHIF SARMAD 2/14/2006 12:37 AM whatever you MONKIES ..PROBABLY BHUTTO GAVE YOU'RE PARENTS SOME MONEY TO DO SHIT THATS Y U STILL LICK HIS BALLS ...BHUTTO WAS A THEIF A LOW LIFE AND YOU PEOPLE WERE THE PEOPLE WHO HE FOOLED ,DEEP INSIDE YOU ..YOU ALL KNOW THAT BHUTTO WAS BAD THats y he got hanged THANK GOD

Flex @above 2/14/2006 2:49 AM When will u grow up? havent someone taught u how to talk with any sense and logic. I am still waiting for one single reason, just one single reason why should we hate Bhutto. Any facts. Any figures. Any thing? 2/14/2006 7:18 AM Bhutto's major short-coming was his feudal background and connections. Thats your whole fucking existance, Ms Mehr Bugti. Go back to your rocky hideout and continue sucking the bloods of balochi serfs and paying their parents to sing paeans for your family and sacrifice their lives to ensure that you guys have your bubble baths. its not like pot calling the kettle black. its even worse. like a stripper suing the government for legalizing prostitution with the claim, that she only strips and not fucks. 2/14/2006 7:21 AM kashif, you have to decide whether its Bacha or Man. and did you say I have Viking language? Thats kinna cool. Death to all IDIOTs!! Hussain and the freemasons! and George W. Bush Jnr. and senior. and if you don't stop soon kashif, you too will be on the list. @mehr 2/14/2006 9:30 PM I THINK BHUTTO GAVE UR PARENTS A PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR SHITS, THATS Y YOU ARE ANGRY OVER A GREAT PERSONLITY. HUH! I DONT WANT TO DEBATE WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO DONT HAVE MANNERS TO TALK. I THINK YOUR PARENTS NEEDED TO TEACH YOU MORE REGARDING TO MANNERS. I SUGGEST YOU TO TALK ON TOPIC RATHER THAN ABOUT ANY PARENTS. IF YOU WILL TALK WITH GENTLE LANGUAGE YOU ARE WELCOME AND IF YOUR NOT. GOD WILL HELP YOU! Kashif REGARDS KASHIF SARMAD 2/15/2006 4:00 AM and hopefully, the doctors at Giddu Bandar will help you too.

Taimur

Hussain

Hussain 2/15/2006 8:56 AM Bhutto is dead. Gone. No more. Out of this world. No more in Pakistani Government or politics. Which part of it you do not understand? It is time to think about the future, u idiots. And the future lies in unity, regardless of the fact that you hate Bhutto, or praise him. Get a life ppl!!! Nabeel 2/15/2006 9:54 AM kami and shezad i think u r being real harsh i mean if u said all that abt the real asshole get who i mean ya i m talking abt MUSHHRRAF well we wouldnt have minded it ...all bhutto was to strike at the weakness of the people and he did work to provide them with food and shelter and clothes ...those are the few basic necessities of life .... 2/15/2006 10:04 AM the first person to start the nuclear development in PAKISTAN ..the leader who took measurez with shah faisal to unite the muslims ..all these assholez having no knowledge must shut up n open the history books ..fuck uu guyz ...he waz a greta leader who gave his life but did not bow in front of the military generalz itll be a waste of time telling u lot. 2/15/2006 4:41 PM u guys r just over eacting let these idots say what tehy want for everyone knows Bhutto was and stillsi the best leader PAKSITAN HAS EVER HAD. as for what he gave us ill just like to point out a few things. the constitution a perfect document that ppl like u and musharaf and the rest r trying very hard to screw over. he gave us a nuclear programme the sole reason y u idiots r still alive and able to criticize him. he gave us a vision an ideology. he gave us a future.he made us proud. tell me of any other leader who had the balls to say no the the international community. i.e. the UN. he didnt go licking the americans shoes. he created the islamic summit uniting all muslim states and creating the biggest threat to the west. he was popular well educated and a charismatic leader.above all he was Bhutto....THE LEGACY Zain and no offence but with bugti as ur surname i dont know howe u can be talking about families.... ill admit he wasnt perfect and he was no angel but he was still better than the rest.i dont want to win u over or ask u to support him.but think tehre has to be something about the man for him and his party to still ahve teh largest vote bank in teh country 30 years after his death. in the last election aswell ppp got the highest percentage of votes in the country.think rationally and u might get an idea.but then there si a chance ur one of them stupid on track minds who think bhutto was hung cuz he got someone killed. lol NICE DEBATE GUYZ 2/16/2006 7:10 PM IT WAS REALLY NICE DEBATE GUYS BUT I DONT THINK SO THAT STUPID PERSONS LIKE MEHR GONNA LISTEN TO US BECAUSE BUGTIS WAS KICKED BY THE BHUTTO BEACUSE THEY WERE BLACKMAILING THE GOVERNMENT FOR ENHANCING THE LOYLITIES THAT BHUTTO DIDNT ACCEPT AND DID OPERATION AGAINST THEM. THEY ONLY WANT MONEY FOR THEIR SHITS ONLY. THEY DONT WANT TO EDUCATE PEOPLE. SARDARS LIKE THEM ARE FOOLING AND HARRASING THE PEOPLE FOR THEIR OWN INTREST. I THINK THEY MUST BE HANGED PUBLICALLY. WHAT THEY HAVE DONE FOR THE PEOPLE IN 50 YEARS? NOTHING... BHUTTO IS GREAT AND WILL ALWAYS BE GREAT, WHATEVER STUPID PEOPLE THINKS ITS DEFINATELY NOT PUT ANY IMPACT TO BHUTTO'S PERSONALITY. SO GO TO HELL THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST THE LEGEND BHUTTO! REGARDS KASHIF SARMAD

LiVe F®ëÊ..

\/\//-\L!

Kashif

Bhutto is great 2/16/2006 9:24 PM he was the leader of the entire 3rd world, not just Pakistan. - He was the one who brought the Muslim nations closer to each other. - In his time, Pakistan's international relations with every country were the best. - He was the one who gave Pakistan the dream of Nuclear bomb so that dirt minded Indians can be tackled. - Bhutto is one leader who is praised by every great leader. - He could have easily run out of the country like other leaders, but he did not! He wanted to die with honour and this is why we all remember him as Shaheed. - His family was already one of the richest and well respected families of sub-continent even before 1947. So there is no point in him being greedy. - Bhutto was a highly qualified person and he could have lived a very comfortable life in any of the developed countries of the world like UK and USA, but he came back to serve his country! He was not a chaudhry or a terrorist turned into a politician :S - Bhutto was the one who brought back 90,000 pakistani soldiers alive from Indian cells!! that too at the time of high tension! Can any of your chaudhry birathraaans do that?? these are just a few that come to mind. There are plenty others! everyone does make mistakes, so did he. But his mistakes are far too less to challenge his good deeds. Some ppl think he was responsible for fall of Dhaka but the truth is: Bangladesh was always gonna be saparated one day because of the violation of rights with Bengali people since 1947. Bangalis were already pushing hard for independence so no matter who the leader was at that time, this would have happened anyway. You cant blame one person for such a big thing, it was a long process which led to saparation of B'Desh. nabeel 2/17/2006 1:33 AM yea ur right kid hate him or love him one thing we need is UNITY whos with me?

Kamran

Adam Got it Assholes???(Kami,Mehr,Shazad) 2/17/2006 1:02 PM Great Men...! Supporters of Mr.Bhutoo...Bravo!... You ppl have shut the shitting mouths of Kami..Mehr and shahzad and Everyone who hat My great leader(Mr.Bhutto) @Sana 2/17/2006 2:19 PM lolz ! keep it up moi boy !!

Sanaullah

Jatoi @majid 2/18/2006 5:10 AM Thanx ustad.... Sanaullah Sanaullah 2/18/2006 11:16 AM Bhurway thera dimaagh kharab tho nahin: i thought i told ure sorry ass to watch the way to talked to ppl, and most of all ME. Shehzad U think i don't know politics?! U stupid bastard, ure the one who doesn't know politics. All uve

managed to say up till now is that u love bhutto, and u'll kill ny1 who hates him.... Why don't u come up with something productive like the rest of ure fellow bhuttoites. relax... 2/18/2006 12:07 PM goodness....this isnt a matter of personal pride and honour at stake whether u hate him or not....everyone is entitled to their opinion goddammit....all u people need is an excuse.... heres what i think of bhutto. the only true statesman, politician, and diplomat to take office. the rest are either generals, feudal lords, or bankers without any previous political experience...but understandably, that doesnt necessarily mean he had a clean conscience. a politician at heart. 77 elections WERE rigged. and he was charged with SOMETHING that he got hanged. now i dont tend to be an expert on these things because i am not that well versed. and if someone is disagreeing then please at least not abuse me. and mehr, i think just insulting bhuttoites wont do u any good. presenting a suitable argument can though. 2/18/2006 3:43 PM i didnt wish to...but u asked for it... Bhutto...no doubt a great leader...infact one of those very few leaders with true leadership qualities. But what good of it if it only brought destruction. Bhutto came into politics under the arch bureaucrat and dictator, Sikandar Mirza, who tore asunder the first and the consensus constitution of 1956. Then he changed his loyalties to Field Marshal Muhammad Ayub Khan. He not only served him for consecutive eight years but also eventually became his chief election campaigner against Mohtarama Fatimah Jinnah, who had challenged the autocracy of Ayub Khan. He caused the fall of the Ayub regime only to grab power and helped Gen. Yahya Khan for another martial law that proved fatal and most disasterous for the development of Pakistan. Bhutto was not only an adviser to the new dictator but also acted as his foreign minister and accomplice in the dismemberment of the state that was founded by Quaid-i-Azam. He played, indeed, a decisive role in the separation of East Pakistan particularly by refusing to accept 1970 electoral results, as he was not willing to hand over the power to the majority party - Awami League. Accepting defeant would have proven his bravery…but no. He raised the slogan of ‘idhar ham udhar tum’ only to obstruct the holding of the National Assembly’s session. After the fall of Decca, despite getting around 36 percent of the votes in West Pakistan the founder of the Pakistan Peoples Party maneuvered to get himself appointed as civilian chief martial law administrator, a novel position hardly found in the political history of the world. He retained this post until interim constitution was adopted. Under one-man constitution, he sought to establish the presidential form of government. When in accordance with the 1973 constitution he had to accept parliamentary system, he wilfully distorted it by centralizing powers as a Prime Minister so much so that the President became only a show-piece and a puppet in the hands of the most powerful Prime Minister. 2/18/2006 3:44 PM Strictly speaking, it was not a parliamentary form of government. The day the constitution was adopted, he resorted to the emergency powers by suspending fundamental rights. Parliament had never been supreme and the judiciary was never allowed to become independent of the executive. Actually he lacked the democratic spirit due to his bureautic and feudal behavior. What was the vision that Bhutto cherished? About the original 1973 constitution that he had given to the country, let us see what his own right-hand men and law minister Mahmud Ali Qasuri observes: ‘Instead of a full fledged democracy and a parliamentary government, we are, in the draft Constitution, provided with a government wherein the prime minister will have every opportunity of becoming a dictator. Once a person has secured his election as a prime minister, he can act and continue to act in defiance of the wishes of the majority of the Members of Parliament or even the overwhelming majority of the members of his own party. This is not parliamentary government but is prime minister’s dictatorship’. He killed many political leaders and civilians as well. It’s a long list…trust me. Sardar Ataullah Mengal’s son killed and buried somewhere unknown. Nawab Muhammad Ahmad Khan, father of dissident PPP MNA Ahmad Raza Kasuri killed. Dozens killed in Laiqat Bagh protest. Crackdown in balochistan killing many civilians. MNA and veteran politician Khwaja Saad Rafiq’s father murdered…and the list goes on. I do praise Bhutto…and that only for the Nuclear Technology. Rest is exaggerated.

Saim

Nabeel

Nabeel

2/18/2006 3:44 PM Steel Mill project was started during Yahya Khan's rule. You would know this if u start reading real history, rather than PPPz. Apparently Gen Yahya khan does not have a political party to praise him. btw...im not praising Yahya khan...dont take it wrong :D which some people might do...just for the sake of argument Nabeel 2/19/2006 5:51 AM cha gaya hai nabeel...

Cheeky 2/19/2006 9:56 PM Started the nuclear program. Conducted Islamic Summit and united the Islamic Ummah. Brought back 90000 prisinors of war from India. Stood fast against the military tyrants. Introduced land reforms and took steps to end feudalism and made people empowered. Sanaullah 2/20/2006 2:00 AM Thank you my friend for agreeing with me to not swear. Now, moving toward a mature argument. Never, will I say that bhutto was stupid, or an ass, or nything of the sort. Bhutto was indeed almost a genius. My reasons however, for not liking are included in, and have now extended to the list that Nabeel has provided. He was a power-hungry individual. His rule appeared to be democratic, but it really wasn't. In his time, those who chose to oppose him, or speak against him were eliminated instantly-that is not a democratic form of govt. Every move he made, since, and and even before, promoting Operation Giblater, were to gain power. The anti India speeches, him bashing the US: all these and various other actions were all nothing but political strategies to fool the nation. He was a man on a misson for personal achievements. When som1 is as widely hated as Bhutto, then there is a reason behind it, many of which have been provided in various discussions. mirza agha 2/20/2006 5:44 AM nuclear program - much appreciated. Islamic Summit...u kidding me?...OIC has been having Islamic Summits in different Muslim nation...this time it was pakistan...not a big deal... stood against military tyrants...lol...what military...he was brought in by gen Iskander Mirza and the Ayub khan...he praised the military until he formed his own political party...he betrayed Ayub khan...Gen Zia betrayed him...this is life mate...shit happens Land reforms...u talking abt land reforms? The first series was the Land Reforms Regulation of Pakistan 1959, enacted as Martial Law regulation 64. it restricted the individual holding to 500 acres of irrigated or 1000 acres of un-irrigated land or 36000 PIUS ( produce index units), whichever was greater. Bhutto wasnt even in picture during that time. The next reforms was promulgated in 1972, again through a martial law regulation (MLR-114), enacted as Land Reforms regulation 1972. the ceiling of individual holding was lowered to 12000 PIUS, or 150 acres of irrigated, or 300 acres of un-irrigated land, whichever was greater, with additional allowance of 2000 PIUs for tube-well or a tractor. During Gen Yahya's short tenure. Yea...what bhutto did later was that he made a new constitution and made these laws (already applied) part of the constitution. 90000 prisoners of war from india...bhutto was the reason they got captured in the first place. 'idher hum, udher tum'. but Bhutto is gone people...dead...and even if he was a great leader, that is not a reason to

Mirza Agha

Shehzad

Nabeel

support PPP. Its got different leaders now...in complete shambles. well.. 2/21/2006 12:20 AM all i can say positive Mr. Bhutto is his SLOGAN "Roti Kapra Aur Makaan" which really had the public with him. the 2nd most important thing was his Attitude. He could talk to ANYONE ANYWHERE no matter what position the next person held. Bhutto had a convincing my way or high way approach with them.. One But in the end, that cost Pakistan a Bangladesh and i can only blame BHUTTO FOR THAT... If today Bangladesh was present day Pakistan.. Then the situation would have been much MORE DIFFERENT MLK 2/21/2006 12:33 AM fuck still my veiws for him are he is an ass hole and that is what he will remain

~ KДmig™~♥! kami 2/21/2006 3:16 AM kami i guess bhutto was ur` mother fucka ! I am readin ur` commentz since a long but unfortunatly i ve neva seen any one else to submitting bullshit commentz like u for Bhutto Sahab !! So I must say ure truly asshole n Bhutto came to ur home n fucked ur` mother in ur absentee ! Jatoi Kis shaks ko sooli pih charha baithay ho logo 2/21/2006 4:56 AM he was the one who stand in the favour of tashkand. he gave the 1973 constitution which never been possble in the previous 25 years period of Pakistan. he was the one who make this country a capable in nuclear tech. He was the one who declred Ahmedis as non muslim. He was himself a landlord but he always stand for the poor. China-Pakistan friendship, and our relation with Saudia are just bcoz of him. what he has done for Pakistan in his periord from 73-77, no one can do even in entire his life. About his murder i would say this thing in urdu Yeh kia sitm dha baithay ho logo Kis shaks ko sooli pih charha baithay ho logo Imran 2/21/2006 5:56 AM Absolutely ryt Imran !

Imran

Jatoi 2/21/2006 9:47 AM Yeh kia sitm dha baithay ho logo Kis shaks ko sooli pih charha baithay ho logo......... gr8 shair imran. but these stupids ppl will never understand this....... 2/21/2006 10:53 AM Salam… Tashkent…why was Bhutto against Tashkent? Was it because of the ‘no-war’ clause? The ‘no-war’ clause could have resulted in better ties in both countries. Wars get us no where. And we have seen that. Loss of good men and wealth. So why was Bhutto against Tashkent? The answer is that he was not included by Ayub khan in the meeting with the Indian Prime Minister. That’s it. There was nothing to gain from it. By the way, Bhutto was against Tashkent, not in favour. Ayub khan was in favour. Read history first please. 1973 constitution. Wow…as if he wrote it himself. Like amazing. Truly superb.

Emaan

Nabeel

Declared Ahmedis non-Muslims? Was it Bhutto? He never even spoke of it. It were the religious leaders like Maulana Noorani sahib who came out against Ahmedis and forced Bhutto to do so. He was simply losing vote. There was no other apparent reason. He stood for the poor? Like when? I cannot find a single example in books of history. But let me assure you of one thing. I do not find him hungry for money, like today’s leaders. For power, yea... but not for money. @Nabeel 2/21/2006 12:38 PM Listen.. You are opposing every Achievement of Bhutto sahab and u are completey wrong. Believe me..No one is going to believe u..what do u think..writing some names of other people in ur post can make people believe u..? I know the complete History about Mr.Bhutto and i am damn sure that all the things u r shitting are just wrong.. Wrong and Wrong..Every single achievement that has been mentioned in the Topic is true and was done by Mr.Bhutto.Belive me!..He (Nabeel) is completely wrong and is lieing at a glance. That's other reason that u may be the son of some Army Officer that's why u r oppsing Mr.Bhutto. What has Army given to us..? And what is Army giving to us?...Army dictators doomed us completely.They belonged to the lower class people and they meant to have money by ruling the country.Why we are so backward today...? Just because of these Army Dictators.They always break the laws of the country and started ruling us and dooming us.The same case is with Musharraf.Listen dude here, the conversion is not going on PPP but on Mr.Bhutto.I know that today's PPP is not that PPP during Mr.Bhutto was...But is still better than others. And who said u that Mr.Bhutto was an angry man..? Impossible Mr.Bhutto was that kind and softhearted man i haven't seen in my life.Yes he was angry for US and INDIA but not for his country remember.You are talking about having good relations with INDIA and US..Are the Indians and Americans like for having Friendship..???India Always broke the agreements with Pakistan and because of Them only Bangladesh was separated. And what America is doing for Islamic World..? Just plannig to target the Islamic Countries.And Mr.Bhutto was the man who oppenly Opposed US and it's policies and that was the reason for his execution. Listen.. The Islamic Summit Conference was the most important conference in the history of OIC.Do u know how..? No You may not that's why u just took it little. Mr.Bhutto Presented His goals Befor the Islamic countries....Continue... ....continued.. 2/21/2006 12:55 PM 1)All the Islamic countries should get their money out of the World Bank and make their own bank which should be known as The Islamic Bank and which should help all the Islamic countries without any profit. 2) All the natural resources of the Islamic countries should be first provided to Islamic countries and then western countries. Think if these goals would have completed.World bank is the backbone of the economy of the WEST.And Natural resources are the biggest need of them.Think if these goals of Bhutto sahab would have completed,US troops were not sitting In Afghanistan and Iraq nor pressurizing Iran to get off it's Nuclear Programme.But unfortunately after that Conference,the sleep of Western countries specially US, had become "haram" for them and they started struggle to Execute Mr.Bhutto.And they succeeded just because of these Army Dictators (Assholes). I hate Army Dictators.They have always doomed my country and not only my country but All the Islamic World. Jeay Bhutto. Jeay Bhutto. Jeay Bhutto. @Nabeel 2/21/2006 1:30 PM Don't u think so having "no-war" clause with India makes no sense... Uncountable agreements on "no-war" have been done with India but tell if INDIA stood according to the agreements.No Example. Having "no-war" clause with India was just the Wastage of time.And that was the reason

Sanaullah

Sanaullah

Sanaullah

Cheeky

Sanaullah

Mr.Bhutto opposed it. 2/21/2006 3:57 PM Think if these goals of Bhutto sahab would have completed---> This is what was impossible. The aims and goals of bhutto sahib were indeed very high. But the way to achieve them was very childish. Lets compare bhutto sahib with hitler and chinesse leader mao. Both worked silently untill they got power instead of bashing on their enemies. I am 100% sure that things would had been same even if bhutto stays for another 20 years in power. That is, pakistan would had been third world country and usa would had been super power. However, this does not mean that i favor dictators. I hate them as much as any body else. I only want to say that what nabeel has said is also right. Similarly, i can not understand bhutto sahib's socialism? Why this was needed at first instance? I even can not understand this! When i see some other nations of the world where every body have rooti, kapra and makan and that even without any kind of socialism then why we need socialism? Why not first try to follow those nations? Secondly, if you are promising some body to give him rooti,kapra and makan then why will he work hard? This will ultimately lead to a collapse of economy. May be bhutto was right for land reforms. I feel that was needed but nationalizing industries was not the right thing to do. @Cheeky and others.. 2/22/2006 2:53 AM When did u give chance to Bhutto Sahab to complete his goals...? Just after the end of the dialogues in Islamic Summit conference US started interfearing in Pakistan's Interior politocal affairs.US Intelligence started it's struggle to corrupt Mr.Bhuttos right handed men.US Intelligence started killings in Pakistan and imposed their responsibilities to Mr.Bhutto.US just wanted Mr.Bhutto to look into his country's own matters and forget about Islamic Summit Conference. You are Comparing Mr.Bhutto with Hitler and Bao.Listen..This comparison makes no sense.Mr.Bhutto only worked for the development of his country and he did not care for his Rule but he only and onle thought for the development of his country and US could not see an Islamic country to grow as faster. Which World country today is Pakistan...? Ofcourse 3rd world country and i will say that Pakistan is not even the 3rd World country but worse than 3rd world country.Pakistan is now a days the worst country in the World except it's defence.And all is due to these Army Dictators.You are talking about 20 years..believe me if Mr.Bhutto had been in power for next 5 years only,The Islamic Republic Of Pakistan would have been the 1st World country. Which countries you are talking about having no socialism..? Socialism means a political and economic theory that a country's land,transport,Natural resources and Chief Industries should be owned and controlled by the whole community or by the state and that wealth should be equally distributed........Now tell me which country is completely developed without Socialism..???? America and other countries are completey developed just because of Socialism.No developed country can oppose socialism.What Mr.Bhutto wanted was to make Pakistan The first World country and that can be done only if u act upon the rules of socialism. No doubt on Mr.Bhutto's land reforms policy.He got currupt landlords into jail and gave the rights to deservers(Fielders..Kisaan). 2/22/2006 3:08 AM i hate the army being in government as much. btw...who says that i hate Bhutto... he was a genius...but what good if one can't make the best use of his abilities.

Nabeel 2/22/2006 3:12 AM and dont even get me started on OIC...what i have presented are fac based on actual occurrings. please revise your history. i cant keep arguing with you...you may never agree to what i say but, as i said before, Bhutto is gone. dead. no need to quarrel on that. think about the future... Nabeel

Nabeel

Sanaullah

Nabeel

2/22/2006 3:16 AM u talk of army being of lower class. what do u know about these classes...on one hand u praise bhutto on his Islamic moves...and on the other u talk reverse. Islam doesnot teach us classes and if u think that these classes differentiate people, then please atleast do not talk about Islam. U know nothin. and if i may ask, what is your class?...rich landlord? politician? elite business man?...lol...my ass...grow up...for your own good. class...lol...btw...as i said...i do not support army involving itself in politics. @class.. 2/22/2006 3:51 AM Hey...you took it wrong buddy.. I did not spoke about Class of livelihood of a person....As u r asking me about my livelihood..whether i am a businessman or Landlord whatever.. I just mentioned the class on the moral qualities of Dictators...When u join army an oath is taken from u that u will never oppose ur Senior's advice and u will not interfear in Politics of the country.But those who broke the laws and started ruling country..what will u say to them as far as their moral values as being Army Officers are concerned.I am not talking about All the Army Officers...There are many JAWANS in Army who doesn't mean Politics and they are completely filled with the Spirit of Jihad. And i know the Complete History about OIC...What fatcs u r talking about OIC..did i oppose OIC..never.. Listen dude Every Muslim has right to speak about Islam and i was no wrong that u asked to not to speak about Islam..It was ur mistake that u took the meaning of class wrong..May be in ur daily life u may practicing classes of livelihood of people that's why u took it in that sense.. 2/22/2006 9:38 AM man...what do u know about economics...lol @ USA...give me an example...one single example where USA has adopted nationalisation policy....or any other developed country for that matter. Schools, colleges, police, hospitals and other such institutions are nationalised because it is the duty of the government to provide such services. And such services exist in both private and public sectors of the economy through out the world. Let me give you a simple example. Take UK, one of the most developed countries of the world. Be it Gas, Electricity, Water, Telecommunication, pharmaceuticals, or British Rail…everything is privatised. They are even making a move to privatise the NHS (their medical and hospital service). Talking of the US, Lockheed Martin (one of the world’s largest weapons manufacturer and the manufacturer of F-16 as well), Boeing (one of the largest commercial plans manufacturer), in fact 90 per cent of all the top-500 USA companies are private, may be more. Please do your research before you pen down your ideas. 2/23/2006 4:24 AM go on

Flex 2/23/2006 10:26 AM btw...i m sorry that i misunderstood your 'low-class' phrase. perhaps u need to use more appropriate selection of words when issue such remarks.

Nabeel 2/23/2006 10:27 AM *while issuing

Nabeel @ sanaullah 2/23/2006 11:32 AM I am dusgusted after reading sanullah's posts. Not only is this young Bhuttoite a disillusioned individual, but he is only a reckless writer. Shehzad

sanaullah, would you care to name even one industry in the US today which has been nationalized? I can't believe these ppl. First of all, they have the nerve to defend a guy who ruined this nation, and to top it all off, they use all sorts of false examples to "aid" their arguments. ahaha--well i'm not surpirsed--isn't that what bhutto did too? taimur 2/24/2006 1:50 PM definitely u have given gr8 achievements f bhutto......but let me add only one thing.......and that s his death for law,constitution,and civillian power.........this s the aheivement which only bhutto won and that s y he s sooooo great........bhutto bhi jaan bacha kar bhaag sakta tha my dears but he was the man of principles...... 2/24/2006 2:24 PM Bhutto didnot leave the country and flee reason being that he had this thought in his mind that he wont be hanged. neways it was a brave thought.

melted

Nabeel @All 2/25/2006 12:44 AM Ahan....! Give me a break..! Don't just Consider on the Examples Of the countries ok.. Just consider on the benefits of the Nationalization.... Then Speak... Many Illitrate pplz just start their Personal Conversion that makes no sense...Be sensity and just talk about the topic..specially Shahzad.. 2/25/2006 1:21 AM Listen..Nationalization is the must taken step for the development of a country.By Nationalization u can provide people with High Quality Commodities in Lowest Prices but if the Privatization is allowed,the prices of Commodities(goods) are upto the owners of the Institutions.Take an Example of Higher Secondary School..A Government school requires fees of Rs.20 in a year and Private school requires more than Rs.1000 per month.Remember during Mr.Bhutto's government,Government schools used to to provide best education and Private schools had tough competetion with Government schools (Means Government and Private schools were Equal).Not like todays Government schools which have no competetion with Private schools but Still there are some Government Schools which Provide best Education Without any charges.So,the step of Nationalization was in Fever of the Nation.As we know that main problem of Pakistan is Poverty,many people can not even bring 2 times meal for themselves.In this situation how poor people can Afford the Prices of Commodities....? And this concept is Completey Wrong that Nationalized Institutions can not Provide High Quality commodities.People who run Institutions both Nationalized and Privatized are the same Pakistani people.Rather the national Institutions have more attraction for Employement than Private Institutions so how can be there a difference between Private and National Institutions as far as Quality of Goods is concerned.The Big Difference between National and Private Institutions is Prices.The thing provided to u in Rs.100 by private institution can be proved to u in Rs.50 by the National Institution with the same quality. 2/25/2006 1:28 AM Nationalization was in benefit of the ppl of Pakistan as far as the quality and Prices of commodities are concerned.. Privatization started it's way after 90's.Before that Many Industries were Nationalized... 2/25/2006 1:33 AM However..Nationalization or Privatization..Economy of the country was Improved at a glance during Mr.Bhutto's Government.. Sanaullah nabeel 2/25/2006 2:16 AM ya nabeel most f the writers say bhutto ws sure that he culdnt b hanged......thats a different thing.....bhutto has made a history ,how,why,he was culprit or not.....these questions are important but not so much.......in world history bhutto is remembered as an elected prime minister who ws hanged by the establishment..........facotrs u ppl know.

Sanaullah

Sanaullah

Sanaullah

melted

Nabeel

2/25/2006 3:39 AM As i said "Schools, colleges, police, hospitals and other such institutions are nationalised because it is the duty of the government to provide such services. And such services exist in both private and public sectors of the economy through out the world." Please read what i write carefully. Nationalisation is seen in the context of nationalising production industries, factories where stuff are made like textile, sugar mills and many more. And no where in the world has it ever been succesful,...nowhere... 2/25/2006 3:42 AM The economy never improved during bhutto's government. yeah...the most effective industrial reforms were made under the government of Ayub khan. which we indeed quite successful

Nabeel @ shahzad 2/25/2006 3:51 AM Bhutto was never an elected representative of the people...mind you...it was mujib-urrehman. he just divided the part where he has SLIGHT majority. thats it. In the 1970 elections mujiburRehman's part won 160 seats overall in the national assembly and PPP winning only 81. the difference is clear. Nabeel 2/25/2006 3:52 AM which was indeed quite successful *

Nabeel shahzad 2/25/2006 10:44 AM in facts of history when bhutto was hanged he was the legal pm of pakistan.so bhutto's death was not his death butt the death of a state and death of the constitution and whol f the nation as well..........and remember after 71 pakistan and bangladesh are two different countaries

melted

re 2/25/2006 1:53 PM YEH KON SAKEH HAI JIN KAY LALOO KI ASHRAFIYAA CHAN CHAN[WHO ARE THESE GENEROUS SOUL'S WHOS BLOODS SHILLINGS FILL THE CUP OF HUMANITY[FAIZ Mohammed AHMED FAIZ] 2/26/2006 4:33 PM bhutto led to the seperation...and then became the PM

Nabeel 2/27/2006 3:37 AM The separation of East Pakistan was decided by a meeting while Ayub in the chair. Before taking over as CMLA Yahya spent one whole day with Mujeeb while Mujeeb was in jail for Agartala Case. The Six points of Mujeeb were drafted by Altaf Gauhar, a bureaucrat in Ayub’s government. “Six points demand of mujeeb are a receipie of the separation of east from the west” Noorul Ameen a Bengali leader in 66 during the round table conference called by Nasrullah Khan attended by Ayub. Military bureaucracy in the west could not rule the country with out getting rid of the Bengalis. The generals in East Pakistan were busy in the smuggling of Pan and neglected their professional duties. Syed Denial plan is the war strategy by which a retreating army destroys every thing that could be of use for the advancing enemy. Complete squadrons of fighter planes tanks and tons of unused armament were handed over intact to India at the surrender ceremony. Senior Pakistani generals from the POW camps in India were allowed out of the camps with their families for shipping in Calcutta.

Please have some time to read the Hamood Commission Report don’t just accuse Bhutto for the debacle. It is common practice in Pakistan to take oath and go against it. He is the only person in Pakistan who gave his life defending the Oath of his Office and stood for what he thought was right. Riaz al Khateeb the Saudi ambassador those days was begging for the life of Bhutto and wanted to take him to his land. Zia sent Dr. Mubashar several times for a patch up to which he refused “I would rather die at the hands of army and not in history” that was his conviction. 2/27/2006 4:45 AM Check out the following link East Pakistan:The end game Kausar Niazi in the Bhutto Cabinet was considered to be from the Military lobby. Syed 2/27/2006 5:40 AM This is what the leader of the country whose 90,000 soldiers were prisoners of war that lost half of the country negotiated with India and got in return Simla Agreement please don’t try to diminish the personality of Bhutto he stands too high among the leaders of his time. Syed And following is what the fake Field Marshal who allegedly won the 65 war got from India and USSR Tashkent Declaration when I get time I will discuss the so called economic prosperity of that era which terminated by celebrating “decade of reforms of Ayub” popularly know as DECAY OF REFORMS. .... 3/1/2006 3:10 AM His Biggest Achievement Was NUCLEAR Program. This Really pushed the Pakistan to Safety.

Kashif 3/1/2006 4:23 AM He gave his life for the nuclear program. He was more for the peaceful use of the technology his argument was that since we don’t have fossil fuel and possibility of hydal-power, we have no option but to go for nuclear option. Sure he did some loose talk by saying that if there can be a Christian bomb, a Hindu bomb an atheist bomb and a Jew bomb why not an Islamic bomb. His program was a very ambitious one. By 1985 we were supposed to have three reactors at Karachi and coastal areas. Several more reactors were envisaged in Punjab and north, some of which were of fast breeder type and some were capable of desalination. We were to have fuel refining and reprocessing plants also. We have in the north the necessary ore rich in the required element to be used as raw material what we would get at the end was complete nuclear fuel cycle. For the reprocessing plant we had a confirmed agreement with France. Not only the Americans got Bhutto hanged they also were able to get the foreign minister of France sacked. After hanging Bhutto, Zia did not peruse for the agreement with France and obeyed the Americans. 3/1/2006 12:01 PM It was with these developments in mind when Bhutto smashed his fist on the table of the famous Darbar Hall declaring that, "there was a Christian bomb, a Jewish bomb and even a Hindu bomb, I want an Islamic bomb." It was Bhutto who sanctioned the establishment of Kahuta laboratories, for "research purposes". To keep the evil eyes of the Americans and other hostile powers away the late Prime Minster played a masterstroke that misled the entire world including the Americans in spite of all the technology at their command. Bhutto signed a deal with France for the installation of a nuclear reprocessing plant; King Faisal of Saudi Arabia paid the money for the deal. The Americans after this deal devoted all their energies, attention and pressure to ensure that Pakistan never got the plant.

Syed

Syed

Syed

3/1/2006 12:05 PM This resulted in the deal between Pakistan and France being off and then on, France ultimately surrendered to the pressure of the United States and scrapped its international commitment. But in the meantime Pakistan had acquired the know how of enriching uranium, a vital process to develop a nuclear weapon. In between another snag arose and that was the transfer of uranium ore from the mines to the laboratories engaged in the process of building a nuclear deterrence for the country. To transport ore, Pakistan made an agreement with (West) Germany to purchase five trucks but the Americans subverted that deal. To overcome this difficulty, an illiterate bus body mechanic was taken to the German plant that made the special purpose trucks. That illiterate person learnt the design of the trucks and also the formula of metal sheets used in the body of those trucks. He came back to Pakistan and with some effort was able to deliver identical trucks that were tested and found to be safe for transporting uranium ore. When the Americans learnt that they had been tricked by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto they sent their Jewish secretary of state Dr Henry Kissinger to Pakistan who made a public threat to Bhutto when he said, "We (Americans) will make a horrible example out of you and your country." see complete article here this was an article of The News International Edition February 9 2004. .... 3/2/2006 12:56 PM Wot u Think Sir??Now..Musharaf Has Rolledback Our Nuclear Program? May B Bcoz Of Americans..as they are callin em their Big supporter N V have also heard n Seen the AQ departure.

Kashif 3/2/2006 3:51 PM I respect Bhutto...he's dead... now...u talk about seperation...keeping all the other things aside...does "idher hum udher tum" ring any bells? Maybe not...because it conflicts with you theory... Okay...If bhutto was a good leader...he could've had simply given up his prime ministerial seat to Mujib...for the good of the nation...who had actually won the elections...and he won he elections after Ayub khan's government and before seperation...I am not completely blaming it on Bhutto...there were a series if event before that as well...but u cant even take bhutto out of picture... Nuclear technology...much appreciated... What about nationalisation and the mass-murder by bhutto...please read my previous scraps btw...i m not even praising army in politics. 3/2/2006 3:53 PM oh...one thing i forgot...there isnt much difference between Simla and Tashkent agreements, just a few words here and there...

Nabeel

Nabeel 3/2/2006 4:02 PM oh mind you...i do not argue with Scientologists...there is an element of conflict of interest.

Nabeel 3/2/2006 8:38 PM Mr. Nabeel! Once I also had the opportunity to visit Madam Tussauds but I chose to stand beside Nelson Mendela. ither ham oodhar tum; a jamaat/jasarat conspricy I don’t know of any mass murders which

Syed

Syed

Bhutto committed, please give authentic evidences and links. Nationalization is a serious and long subject, I am busy these days even to search out my own contributions on Orkut, and you will have to wait. 3/2/2006 8:39 PM It is the words and the punctuation, which matters most in the international pacts and agreements. A single comma can be of extreme significance. Bhutto was facing a leader of winner country who wanted the trial of the POWs on Nuremberg War Crime Trials style. He was there to plead for the release of POWs one of the biggest and humiliating surrender ever in the history of the world. Simla Agreement terms in specific words that Kashmir is a dispute while Tashkent Declaration does not, one is an agreement while the other is a declaration. If I get time I will give you links to several threads where I confronted Indians on the issue of Kashmir. If you get time do check from my communities on international matters with topic Kashmir Issue. check this one I will give you al lot more links I have them on my other computer which has broken down these days. You will notice the significance of the international documents. I don’t mind if you don’t like to argue with me, I will still be putting the facts on Orkut. 3/9/2006 12:32 PM well i havent read all d replys, but i think alot of ppl dont think Bhutto has achieved any thing worth while for our country. please ppl lets think relisticly, point1:Bhutto made d nuclear bomb for us, and if it wasent for dat bomb india our so called friend now would have attacked us along time ago to make pakistan a part of their country again. which by d way i personally think dey are,not by force now but by acting as our friends n geting into our homes(country). wat do u think america would have not made up a stupid reason to attack pakistan just as it attacked afghanistan.dey even have a reson now because according to their latest intellegence usama bin ladin is currently in pakistan.now lets think of a reason america would have made to attack pk..... i thik harbouring a criminal would have been enough of a reason for dem. now coming to point 2:Bhutto made the STEEL MILL for us which really helped our economy n our ppl.the steel mill contains 22 plants n can u imagine how many ppl got employment because of dis mill. now for d ppl who oppose him can u tell me any other president dat has created so many job oppertunities for so many ppl at 1 time. all mussarraf wants to do is make dose dams so dat it will stop wat ever little dirty water sindh is geting. point no3:Bhutto wanted to create a muslim group like d UN. dis is not 1 of his achievments unfortunately but i wrote it down just to make u see d vision of d man.if we had a muslim UN dey would have spoken up against these cartoons of our prophet n all d mishaps dat are taking place against muslims. now point 4: Bhutto brought back DR QADEER who was our head scientist from holland. DR QADEER was was d main scientist in d creation of our nuclear program,america even tried to take DR QADEER away by offering him to come n work for nasa which he dutifuly refused.now DR QADEER is rotting in jail, hes our national hero ppl. dis shouldnt be happening to national hero.n we all know which fine president of ours has put him dere, n for who........ america!!! 3/9/2006 12:57 PM i hope every 1 reads wat MR SYED has writen about BHUTTO and i hope many questions get cleared up. i just want to say 1 thing, its BHUTTO'S achievemnts dat are still getting us by but i dont know for how long dey will. iam no historian or a politician, just a 19 year old patriot n i love pakistan.i would also like to ask d ppl who oppose BHUTTO wat d current president n d ones before him have done for pakistan and its my personal opinion dat BHUTTO would not hav attacked his own ppl with pakistans artilary. des bombs guns n tanks dat r being used to attack our own pakistanis are made or bought from our paid taxes. we pay dese taxes for d betterment of our country, not to destroy wat little dere is. i would also like to mention IMRAN KHAN here, he has d pottential to become d next great leader for pakistan n i hope we vote for him in d up coming elections. n for d ppl who oppose him too,i would like u to ask dis question from ur self dat wat is he geting out of trying to up hold justice n democracy. he had a great life a good wife who by d way was put into jail for 12 months for an incident with a painting. now here in our country ppl get away with d biggest crimes n she was put into jail for a painting????now why didnt he just sit at home put his coments forward on cricket n enjoy a gr8 life.......ill tell u y, it because he knew pakistan is not going any where with dese fake presidents whose only objective is to make america happy.n may i also bring to d ppls attention dat recently he was put in house arrest wen his party wanted to do a rally against mussaraf n bush.he was put into house arrest before d rally......wat was his

Danial

Danial

Cheeky

Cheeky

Danial

crime???????now we as pakistanis have to stand by d ppl who really want d betterment of our country and not insult d great ppl who have put foward their lives for pakistan, we owe it to dem!!!!!!!!!i hope i have cleared up some visions ALLAH HAFIZ 3/9/2006 3:05 PM Bhutto made nuclear bomb for us---he did not made it, he started it.. but any how he gets the credit for that. For this, i can conclude that he was a better leader than nawaz shareef or bay nazir. But we are here talking about bhutto in a greater context. We got the feeling from the replies of fans of the bhutto that he is such a great leader that he has done miracles for pakistan. 2:Bhutto made the STEEL MILL---Ok, that is again a sign of a leader and not just an ordinary politician. For this, i can give a counter example of motorway made by nawaz shareef. I believe that projects like motorway also does have effect in the progress of our country. Similarly, there are a lot of other such developmetns that have happened without bhutto like Heavy Mechanical Complex etc etc. 3-Bhutto wanted to create a muslim group like UN.... This is really that i can not understand... i think it as a negative point... This is like china in early 50's or 60's raises the voice for the unity of asia against europe and america. I believe any good pakistani leader should first concentrate on our own country. Once all the problems are finished only then we should try to become the leader of the whole muslim nation. The reason is not that this is not a good idea. The reason is that this will fail. And it was failed very easily as every body should know. 4- Now DR QADEER is rotting in jail... I think that musharraf is doing very nice job. Do u think that he has grudge on Dr. qadeer and thats why he is doing this. I think this is not the reason. Perhaps the reason is that he is thinking in a wider context which ordinary people like you and me can not think. He is trying his best to keep his relations normal with the west. And west is power at the moment. What if they put some kind of ecnomic sanctions on pakistan. This will surely have a negative effect on our daily lifes. All right... i want to summarise now.. --first, bhutto was no doubt a great leader but we should accept that he was only a great visionary. 3/9/2006 3:13 PM and he was not very successful otherwise. --secondly, the main reason for bhuttoos popularity is not any of his achievements bhut the only reason is that he talked about rooti, kapra and makan slogan. So, he was like a ray of light for poor people. All i want to say is that we should not only concentrate on that bhuttoo was a great leader(offcourse, he was a great pakistani leader) but we should also accept that he was not very successful on practical grounds. And his policies were not at the very best. 3/10/2006 1:05 AM directed to MR CHEEKY, how can u say dat BHUTTO was not successful in d practical sense? u r saying nawaz shareef made d national high way, now tell me how many ppl got permanent employment because of dat? u said dat america is d power rite now n musarraf is only trying to build good relations with dem.....how by bowing down to dem? i hope u are aware of d way d americans treated our prime minister wen he recently went to america.he was made to take his shoes off!!!!!n now wen bush came to pk, all he said dat he wanted terrorism finished n all dese days u can here from musarafs mouth is dat iam working against terrorism n extremism.do u personally think dat by killing dese so called terrorist in wazirustan, dat r our paki brothers musarraff will wipe out extremism. d only way to wipe out extremism is to educate ppl, provide dem with a better life n help dem develop.now coming back to ur point about BHUTTOS popularity. u said BHUTTO was popular becoz he made promises to ppl abt roti kapra n so on. just tell me its a fact today d rich r geting richer n d poor r geting poorer. d sugar prices r at 40 rs in pk rite now. dis never happened in BHUTTOS time.even so BHUTTO opened universities and hospitals in cities like quetta, peshawar,larkana in which facilities like dis did not exsist until d 70s, now hows dat for practical. do u know dat china is d future super power, BHUTTO was d person who made dese relations possible with china.coming toward DR QADEER dude wat ever he did, he is our national hero, hes my hero. a national hero should not be treated like dat,DR QADEER should have been relieved of his duties not put in jail wat ever his crime was, which by d way i think he has done d rite thing.

Danial

3/10/2006 1:47 AM BHUTTO made d pakistan constitutuion.he also got his oposition leaders to sign on dem. he also called d first islamic confrence in d history, in lahore in 1974, in which even MUJHEEB UR REHMAN was invited(bangladesh leader at dat time). d QASIM PORT was also build in his time, one more of his achievments.n about d point on becoming d leader of muslims, i dont think dat was not his objective.a muslim UN would have ment d collective voices of all muslim leaders.d main reason for his trying to make d united nations is dat he wanted to make all d muslim ppl to become united n not be dependant on d west.n for cheekys point on america being d power rite now, america would not have been d super power if we had our own muslim united nation.n again about d point dat BHUTTO only started d nuclear program n was not able to finish it, it was because he killed. if he wer alive for longer time i think he would have seen d whole program through. i hope i have not offende any 1 here, all i want to do is for d ppl to have more facts before day judge BHUTTO. 3/10/2006 5:40 AM u r saying nawaz shareef made d national high way, now tell me how many ppl got permanent employment because of dat?--- A lot of progress has been made in pakistan since 1947 and lots of people have got jobs because of that. so steel mill was only one of the series. A big deal but NOT such a big deal. i hope u are aware of d way d americans treated our prime minister wen he recently went to america.he was made to take his shoes off!!---ahan, so do u think that our prime minister was happy because of that? I guess.. and the "why" has been answered by musharraf as well... what if they put economic sanctions and what if they started bombing in pakistani areas.. so may say that well we are nuclear power.. but the thing is that do you want a nuclear war between pakistan and USA? I think its always better to play the trump cards at the end! Secondly, i want to clear my point of view..i am not comparing bhutto with any of the leaders. i am discussing bhutto only. may be he was better than musharraf. no problem. but perhaps you are trying to defend bhutto's agressive nature. But if bhuttoo had been in this position, i can imagine what he would be doing! Giving speeches like at UN. Scolding the whole world and declaring war against them. Could this improve the situation by any means? I want an answer from you for this.. Could this improve any kind of situation.. economic or military or betterment of islamic nation or any other? 3/10/2006 5:55 AM just tell me its a fact today d rich r geting richer n d poor r geting poorer.--- I accept that this is the main achievement of the bhuttoo, he wants social reforms. And i must admitt that social reforms are needed. For this, i can again say that bhutto was a great pakistani leader. He has the vision. But again, i am forced to say that he was not very successful for implementing his reforms (what so ever was the reason) and his reforms were not the best. Instead of nationalizing the private factories. He could have put attention on other matters. For example, education, law and order,tax reforms and making new industries instead of nationalizing the already present one. I am not here to denounce bhutto or even his policies. I believe that he was the first stone in the pond. What i want to say is that we as a nation should learn from his mistakes and should accept that he indeed made mistakes instead of making an idol out of him. (please bear with my speeling mistakes if there are any) 3/10/2006 5:57 AM DR QADEER should have been relieved of his duties not put in jail wat ever his crime was,-Ok, allright, Dr. qadeer is my hero as well. i am not taking side of musharraf. So may be you are right.

Cheeky

Cheeky

Cheeky 3/10/2006 6:02 AM he also called d first islamic confrence in d history,...this has been answered by nabeel as well that islamic confrence is called rountinely after some years in different muslim countries. Cheeky

Sanaullah

@Cheeky 3/10/2006 11:03 AM U r afraid of America.......?? Are u a Muslim..?? America can not attack us....keep in mind just because of Nuclear Programme of Mr.Bhutto...U need not to be afraid of America it will not attack u...again just because of Mr.Bhutto's Nuclear Programme...Time to think..Mr.Bhutto was the Leader because of whom we are living as a Nation..Mr.Bhutto is my National Hero...! 3/10/2006 11:54 AM dude i dont think u have read all wat i have written.n to refresh ur memory dis comunity is for BHUTTOS fans not for his critisizers!!!!! BHUTTO was d first person to call a muslim leader confrence.... d first. its not a matter of how many happened after dat he was a first 1 to take d initiative. 3/10/2006 12:24 PM It was the second islamic conference in lahore and not the first one. First islamic conference was in Rabat, Kingdom of Morocco, on 12 Rajab 1389H (25 September 1969).

Danial

Cheeky 3/11/2006 12:06 PM fuck bhooto

~ KДmig™~♥! 3/12/2006 4:27 AM lets conjugate. Bhutto gave us a present ( and im sorry it sounds cliched and decadent but it really is)...at a price. He got to compromise his country only because he wasnt a so-called "smart politician" so as to play his trump card.... The thing is, the father of the nation, helped put this dream in action of our country...but the ppl who came from allover the subcontinent to run it sadly lacked the intensity of loyalty. Loyalty was only on the biased towards their relative returns from it. In a conscious and unconscious manner. coming back to the nuclear issue, i wonder what else would the prime minster have to releive from himself if we didnt even half the nuclear bomb?? This bomb is our one and only trump card as you say...sadly, noting else we have is of consequence to the west. @kami 3/12/2006 4:38 AM yeah well....its wierd that people who despise certain people, create special time out to brandish their achievements... do you even know what they are? 3/12/2006 5:03 AM First, in my opinion, bhuttoo gave us the principles like courage,self independence ,self respect, social reforms,democracy etc. But he was not successful to take us to the heights of the destination. Steel Mill etc were only tiny achievements. See how other nations like germany, japan, china, india have done marvelous things in the same span of time. Coming to the nuclear bomb and the trump card. The thing is that in this thread, i only want to talk about bhuttoo. I am not defending musharraf's government. I support democracy at the first instance. Secondly, by using the trump card, i did not mean to use the nuclear bomb. What i meant was that the strategy of being polite by the musharraf government is OK if not best. But this is a small matter. I do not even want to talk about this. This was in response to the post about the behaviour by US officials with shaukat aziz at his arrival to the US.

Madiha

Madiha

Cheeky

Cheeky

3/12/2006 5:05 AM First, in my opinion, bhuttoo gave us the principles like courage,self independence ,self respect, social reforms,democracy etc. But he was not successful to take us to the heights of the destination. Steel Mill etc were only tiny achievements. See how other nations like germany, japan, china, india have done marvelous things in the same span of time. Coming to the nuclear bomb and the trump card. The thing is that in this thread, i only want to talk about bhuttoo. I am not defending musharraf's government. I support democracy at the first instance. Secondly, by using the trump card, i did not mean to use the nuclear bomb. What i meant was that the strategy of being polite by the musharraf government is OK if not best. But this is a small matter. I do not even want to talk about this. This was in response to the post about the behaviour by US officials with shaukat aziz at his arrival to the US. 3/13/2006 2:34 AM well, just becsuse u say d steel mill is not a big deal it doesnt make it any smaller of a deal. d steel mill employed 45000 ppl dat worked directly in d plants n administration. 3/13/2006 2:42 AM This is in response to cheeky's point about BHUTTO not concentrating more on education and welfare of people...I would advise you to read before you type cheeky. I have written previously that, BHUTTO was the first prime minister to make universities and hospitals in cities like PESHAWAR,QUETTA,LARKANA, in which facilities like this did not even exist until the mid 70s. 3/13/2006 2:51 AM well, these countries did so great in that specified time-span as you say, mainly because of their leaders and the people. We as a nation have our work cut out for us...if certain masses spend more time into putting certain others down ,well, reality check here:_ nothing good is going to happen in your country dude. You can bet on that front, right and centre. Coming to the point, of the islamic conference...well, its not really important if it was the 1st or the 2nd, cheeky...but its the one in which Bhutto gave the muslim leaders( at that period in history....now all they seem to do is talk, talk and not TO each other..just AT each other../) He gave them the easiest way to become a superpower ...collectively..we didnt have selected areas or weapons like the west...but we had brains which needed capital investments and faith in them... The muslim leaders like the King Faisal and Khalid of Saudiarabia and those of UAE, they were giving blank checks to Bhutto cause he had a vision, and he knew he could lead all these countries into it. 3/13/2006 2:56 AM the islamic confernce inundated by Bhutto was indeed a cursory glance to the west and its mediocrisy of thought....we had the resources which we had to keep IN our court-yard.... This alarmed the West...and aided by the so-called patriotic opportunist(pakistani, im afraid) Ziaul-Haq....incarcerated bhutto and his legacy so as to keep their dreams from becoming nightmares.

Danial

Danial

Madiha

Madiha

And the lack of development or its limited evidence in Pakistan today is due to this fact that NOT 1 leader seems to have the backbone to stand up and follow in the legacy that Bhutto created.... How can they? These "leaders" ALL have hidden skeletons in their closets ,which the big bad West is keeping a damn close eye on, eh? bhutto's point in the conference 3/13/2006 3:01 AM 1) Keep the oil in our muslim wold 2) Get you money out from the world bank and Geneva and keep it to be spent for the muslim world's benefit...so as to not let the west freeze or abuse these funds

Madiha

3) the 1st islamic conference was merely a fashion statement.....it had diplomats mostly...not ALL the muslim world leaders Bhutto's conference enticed all of them to come an join under 1 roof...never happened before.

4)Create a muslim army...so as to defend muslim sovereignity....and help asap where needed... It would have helped the poor American led-late-realized NATO rescue mission in places like Kosovo and Bosnia....we could have done then what they hate to do now. 3/13/2006 3:31 AM nice answer yaar kami,now just tell us how many hours did it take you to come up with such a "WITTY ONE LINER"!!!! Danial 3/16/2006 6:56 AM Seperation of east pakistan,nationalization,destruction of industrial base,tradition of rigged elections and much more Maharana 3/17/2006 6:12 PM Earlier I gave this link Seperation of east Pakistan I think you have not been able to open it I have cut/paste the same for your convenience Bhutto was behind the breakup of pakistn---This phrase echoes every now and then---- There were several occasions where the establishment always hostile to Bhutto could prove it if it was true. At least two documents; the white paper (a number of books almost 1700 pages released at different occasions by Zia containing forged documents) and the Hamood ur Rahman Commission Report does not accuse Bhutto of the charge. Zia had to conspire with false charges and fictitious stories which were not political in nature to get rid of Bhutto. Idher hum udhar tum was a Jamat Jasarat lies and conspiracy. Syed Yahya the following generals todate are guided by the lobby which works for some kind of a role for the army in Pakistan politics. Yahya imposed a binding condition on the elected representatives of Pakistan to prepare and agree on a constitution within 90 days of the commencement of the assembly, namely LFO. If the assembly was not able to give a constitution Yahya had his constitution authored by Justice Cornelius ready to be implemented which gave a presidential form of government run by him. Tufail of Jamat had seen it and was in favor and declared it to be Islamic. Mujeeb won on the basis of six points which were said to be authored by some bureaucrat (Hamood Report hints). Mujeeb’s manifesto was nothing but a recipe for separation. Continued 3/17/2006 6:14 PM Not attending the assembly; Bhutto was very clear about that. He did stop his party members to attend the assembly session. He set preconditions for the session to start. He said that calling of the assembly was a trap of Yahya to prolong military rule. He wanted the 90 days condition imposed by LFO be removed and the assembly be allowed to work and deliberate on the agreement for the people of Pakistan to live together. If the 90 days condition stayed he wanted all the major political leaders to agree on all the important points of the future constitution. When ZAB gave the constitution in 71 he got together JUI, NAP, and PPP to agree on the draft and sign it before taking it to the assembly. What he confessed was that the mess created by the civil military establishment for about 25 years could not be cleared with in 90 days with LFO hanging on the heads of the parliamentarians. What Mujeeb wanted was separate currency, finance, foreign policy, trade, armed forces, banking system etc. Bhutto went to the extent of accepting 5 points of Mujeeb. IF MUJEEB EVER WAS A PAKISTNI HE SHOULD HAVE NAMED HIS COUNTRY PAKISTAN AND DEMANDED THE WESTERN PORTION ALSO. I supported Bhutto as his voter and support now as his admirer. 3/18/2006 12:17 AM just build a nation or murder the berocracy culture nd tht y he was a leader Bunti

Syed

Mustafa

3/18/2006 2:27 AM Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's foremost acheivement was that he removed the poor man from the clutches of the powerful.. my dear if there wud have been no bhutto today.... the power would have been in the hands of the few who were portege of the west.. the feudals.. sain zulfiqar ali khan brought a social revolution.. sain zulfiqar ali khan empowered the poor.. for the first time .. the middle class dared to get up against the rich.. and he did not do it due to spite for the rich he did it because he was a PATRIOT and it was very rightly said JAB TAK SOORAJ CHAND RAHEY GA BHUTTO TERA NAAM RAHEY GAH.. 3/18/2006 3:51 AM true! But, the best thing I liked about Bhutto is his unforgettable service in acquiring nuclear weapons for pakistan. 3/18/2006 4:44 AM I dont know whether somebody has written this earlier or not but I want to mention one more acheivement of Shaheed Bhutto, he, after the division of this country, gathered people and brought back the lost moral and confidence of this nation. If someone says Bhutto was the one responsible for the division of the country, I will not confront because no one can give final verdict on this issue. Just look at things from the perspective that when we were people who had lost greater part of its country, we were people who were defeated twice by our enemy, we were people who waited for 12th fleet to come for our rescue which never shown up, we were people who had no friends in need and in deed, we were people whose 90000 soldiers were in prisons of enemy, we were people whose ruling dictator left us when we were in grief, who picked us up from the floor and made us a proud nation. Nation, the word has lost its spirit for us after the Shahadat of Bhutto, now we are same old people Punjabi, Muhajir, Sindhi, Baloch and Pakhtun. 3/18/2006 5:06 AM yep, this disunion of us.. its been one of the biggest dilemma for our nation and surprisingly its still found nowadays and even in a broader sense...

kîdD¥ ƒØÛ-Lú

Noor

kîdD¥ ƒØÛLú 4/2/2006 4:31 AM @noor...your words are brutal but right as for now. ZAB culdnt clear up the military's sef-induced-self-involved opportunistic mess which skyrocketed the east pakistan issue into a virago... its was claimed to be his fault when he wasnt even in power at the time of this and its creation....(25 yrs before) Madiha he was a convenient scapegoat for the army holders, who proclaimed to be saviours with their own issues at hand... sometimes i feel sorry for the general soldeirs in the armed forces...they are so idealistic about "serving their own country and protecting it".... hah. serving opportunists that is what they have to be doing. 4/11/2006 6:29 AM bhutto murdered 23 poloticions and 400 innocent people , may his soul burn in hell

Flex

4/11/2006 6:30 AM syed my old haggerd freind ...sir you are sadly mistaken the shit ur writing is utter shit no offense, y dont u go outside and i dont know water some plants or something

Flex @Mehr 4/11/2006 12:52 PM You are the same as your photo. I think You better keep your mouth shut. The person who dosent know how to behave with the seniors must keep their presence out of the civilised debate.... Kashif Who the hell you are who decide whether Bhutto must be hell or not. I suggest you to concentrate on prays that Allah forgive u......

4/11/2006 11:33 PM A- he decided to die but not ran away, B- he insisted a nuclear Pakistan at extreme cost if he was after chair he would not have decided to go with, which endangered his chair, C- Most of Pakistani Defence industry constructed in his period, D- he gave a gift of Pakistan Steel to people, E- He awakened the people to stand up and regard and maintain self respect, when people are respected then pakistan is respected, F- his govt. took honor and prepared the constitution 1973 passed in the parliament unanimously. G- he started real freindship with China since he was Foreign Minister, H- he started an era of independent foreign policy, Ihe set higher prices for agriculture products to benefit farmers and pakistan as well, and ๑ enacted tax relief for the poorest agriculture workers and placed ceilings on land owner ship, Psychedelic J- he inaugurated karachi nuclear power plant in 1972, K- Kahuta facility was also installed in his era, L- The Senate of pakistan was created in his era, M- The council of common interst ๑ for each province was established in his era, N- Labour Laws passed to ensure the future of labour, O- Several new posts were created in Pakistan Army to increase combat ability, Pprices were very much lower during his period as compared to the dollar price, 4/12/2006 9:11 AM My dear young and newly hatched fellow, you started with the photo of a lady on your profile which turned into a dog and now you are a thin body builder trying to keep yourself fit. Flex, Mehr or what ever variety or species you belong to. Don’t you think you are a confused person? The language you use for a great leader reflects your state of mind and state of maturity you are in. Kid; grow up and decide what you actually are. What murders you are talking about? Clear you mind and try to dig out the real facts. The trial against Bhutto was a judicial setup against him. It was an in-camera trial; against all judicial norms the trial was taken up directly by the Lahore high court. The presiding judge was the most biased person and an enemy of Zurfikar Ali Bhutto incapable of delivering any justice. He has been accused of prompting and harassing the witnesses during the crossexamination to get the statements of his choice against Bhutto. He has been accused of going to Zia pleading even before any hearing, that it is only he who can hang Bhutto. All the leaders of PNA who conspired with army to over throw Bhutto don’t have the face to publicly side with the trial judges who were against Bhutto. Retired Justice Naseem Hassan shah on TV program Jawabdeh has publicly admitted that members of the then judiciary were afraid to loose their jobs.

Syed

IPFC SNOBS http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=709633&tid=2441755035240645237&na=3&nst=2&nid=709633-2441755035240645237-2443978694430529808 topic: East Pakistan:The end game East Pakistan:The end game 1/12/2006 12:53 AM Finally some one has the balls to speak up openly. Unfortunately its too late. This should be a lesson for those who are conducting operations in Balochistan and NWFP for similar reasons. Here is a snapshopt from the book. Siddiqi also exposes the infamous General Niazi who shamelessly defended the rapists by declaring that: “You cannot expect a man to live, fight and die in East Pakistan and go to Jhelum for sex, would you?” You can buy the book from Dukandar 1/12/2006 9:35 PM @junaid as early as 1969, Tariq Ali criticized the army rule in Pakistan in his book “Pakistan: Military rule or People’s power” [I’ve yet to read it] and became a bitter critic of its actions in East Pakistan in 1971. Sandy Around the mid 1990s, I read his other book “Can Pakistan Survive? The Death of a State”, which was supposedly an ‘expansion’ of the previously mentioned one. Now I don’t remember most of what I read, but I sure was surprised by the author’s criticism of the Pakistan govt. and army on the East Pakistan question. Pakistan resources must be defended 1/12/2006 10:23 PM The Pakistani military's "alleged" misconduct in 1971 does not, in any way, mean that the Pakistani military is carrying out atrocities in Baluchistan. This is faulty logic. Recently, Asma Jehangir, the representative of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, was in Baluchistan to assess the situation first hand. She reported counter claims from both the Bugtis and the military. Aqdas Baluchistan has vast energy resources (natural gas and possibly oil)that must be protected and secured at all cost. These resources belong to the Pakistani people. The Pakistani military apparently is working on behalf of the Pakistani people. These natural resources do not belong to any tribe, Baluch or otherwise. 1/13/2006 1:49 AM The Pakistani military's "alleged" misconduct in 1971 does not please explain the extra effort made by putting those double qoutes around the word alleged. 1/13/2006 1:51 AM This is faulty logic. you are right. i didnt mean to infer that because pakistan army commited murders in bengladesh thats why it is also commiting murders in balochistan. i only meant to emphasize that those who dont learn their history are condemned to repeat it. 1/13/2006 1:52 AM Recently, Asma Jehangir, the representative of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, was in Baluchistan to assess the situation first hand. She reported counter claims from both the Bugtis and the military.

umm please provide the proof. i read in dawn.com that her caravan was fired upon by "unknown" miscreants. please note the extra effort made by me this time to put the quotes around the word unknown. 1/13/2006 1:55 AM Baluchistan has vast energy resources (natural gas and possibly oil)that must be protected and secured at all cost. bengaldesh used to produce "patsan" that is jute and all of the revenue earned by gov of pakistan used to be spent building the pakistani capital while bengalis were starving. protected and secured against whom? against your own people? thats why it is a famous saying in pakistan that pakistan army conquers pakistan every ten years. may be they cannot digest the fact that they still have not been able to annex kashmir to pakistan from the "clutches" of the indian state. 1/13/2006 1:57 AM The Pakistani military apparently is working on behalf of the Pakistani people. CORRECTION: it is working on behalf of the handful of aristrocratic families which consists of generals, chaudries of punjab , secretaries of islamabad and ministers. These natural resources do not belong to any tribe, Baluch or otherwise. yes they dont belong to any one whether a general or a baloch. and the revenue earned from it should go to the development of pakistan. not in the pockets of the corrupt bastards who control pakistan. 1/13/2006 2:02 AM Rashed Rahman, the Executive Editor of The Post, wrote a comprehensive 6-part series on Balochistan as he knows Balochistan inside out. Here are the links (though he wrote it very cautiously since its a sensitive issue) Part I Part II Part III Part IV Part V Part VI (PS: I am not prejudiced coz I am a Baloch ... but I do know that what the military is doing is absolutely wrong!) @Junaid 1/13/2006 1:00 PM Sir, 1)The reason I used "double quotes" when refering to the alleged atrocities is that there has not been any legal proof of these - atleast by a joint Pakistani-Bangladesh Commission. Unless there is such an effort, we only know the story from one side. Aqdas 2) Please read Asma's Jehangir's account (and that of other journalists) on the BBC Urdu website. 3) I shall write some more comments later. 1/13/2006 3:36 PM Evidence of killings and massacres in Bangladesh have been well documented by a number of sources. While the exact figure have been debated even conservative estimates put civilian deaths into the millions. Its been argued that the number of dead far exceeded those in Rwanda and Cambodia.

Mehmal

Rohit

Particularly brutal were massacres of professors and students at Dhaka University. Women were particularly prone to assualt. In her ground-breaking book, Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, Susan Brownmiller likened the 1971 events in Bangladesh to the Japanese rapes in Nanjing and German rapes in Russia during World War II. "... 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women (three sets of statistics have been variously quoted) were raped. Eighty percent of the raped women were Moslems, reflecting the population of Bangladesh, but Hindu and Christian women were not exempt. ... Hit-and-run rape of large numbers of Bengali women was brutally simple in terms of logistics as the Pakistani regulars swept through and occupied the tiny, populous land ..." (p. 81). Also check out this memoir by a Pakistani army officer. "Siddiqi also exposes the infamous General Niazi who shamelessly defended the rapists by declaring that: "You cannot expect a man to live, fight and die in East Pakistan and go to Jhelum for sex, would you?"

The truth of the matter would have been settled if Bangladesh had been allowed to try the Pakistani officers concerned for war crimes. Unfortunately for them Mrs Gandhi forced them to give up their PoW's. 1/13/2006 6:28 PM 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women Of all the figures, the ones I'm most skeptical about are the ones for rapes. How many Pakistani soldiers were there? 90,000 odd no? This would require basically the whole army contingent to have behaved in the most lascivious way possible. It is perhaps easier for a non-Pakistani, or Pakistanis not aware of the way these jawans are trained to believe that might've happened. For me it's hard to fathom that there were more than a 100 odd bad apples. Btw what happened to Sarmila Bose's report? (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005\12\18\story_18-12-2005_pg7_40) There was an additional claim that there were only a 100 odd incidences reported by some international team called by MajiburRehman to deal with these specific cases. Can't dig up the details now, but someone might know more. 1/13/2006 9:30 PM this is something that is as old as conquest itself. the occupying army rapes the women of the occupied, because military domination is just a gun away from the psyche that causes a man to rape a woman. what makes the difference is the degree to which it is tolerated by the military brass, or if it is even endorsed by them. it is an acknowledged fact that there have been transgressions against kashmiri women perpetrated by indian armed forces, and the indian government is apologetic about it, whether or not any real action is take against the perpetrators in ALL cases or not is another issue. however, if general niazi actually became an apologist for the rapists, that either shows a plain disregard for women on general niazi's part, or it shows an insidious scheme to subjugate the bangla psychologically after having done so militarily. this is an abject action and is thoroughly reprehensible. rapists will exist as long as there are women; however, that does not mean that one should condone the action, whatever the circumstance. Thank You Mansur 1/13/2006 10:25 PM I think after reading Mansur's link those pseudo-liberals, who jump at any opportunity of finding a fault with their own military, should, once and for all, cease to argue.

Mullah Mansur

(OMkAr)

Aqdas No tin-pot Baluchi war lord, Bugti or otherwise, should be ever allowed to dictate his terms or to hijack the future of Pakistan. I support the operation in Baluchistan that is aimed at flushing out miscreants and other assorted Indian agents. Nontheless, once these miscreants have been flushed out - and thrown in the Arabian sea - a politial solution needs to be found. The Pakistani government must, has to, and will, establish its writ in Baluchistan. It will only negociate at its own terms - like a strong government should. The Pakistani state and the Pakistani nation is more important than "invented" Baluch rights. 1/14/2006 12:52 AM punjabi rights fundamental and balochi rights invented? the central government in pakistan has done little to improve the lot of the balochis, pretty much like the indian government did little to improve the lot of the north eastern states. no wonder they are both up in arms. can you stick your neck out and say that a baloch voice carries as much weight in pakistan as a punjabi voice? (OMkAr) considering that balochistan is the largest and now, possibly a veritable cash cow, what has the pakistani government done for them to demand absolute loyalty from the balochis? i agree that the bugti leaders may be as indifferent to the lot of the common baloch as the pakistani government, and that the pakistani government should not tolerate them, but has there been a plan by which the baloch voice can be silenced through negotiations and offers of investment in development and progress of balochistan in general? or is it going to be tried and failed formula of military subjugation followed by exploitation? 1/14/2006 1:42 AM Basically this comes down to nationalism vs provincialism. If you want to go with the former, you will inadvertently end up favoring the most populous province. The gov has been undertaking projects in Balochistan actually. But they have always been sabotaged by the feudals. For example I think they kidnapped and killed the Chinese constructors of some coastal road recently no? And the feudal lords even have problems with a new port being built in Balochistan! Now what exactly do they want the government to do? Build a model city on the slopes of some rugged useless mountain range? 1/14/2006 3:50 AM I found this heart rending report recently: Pak Army operation in Marri and Bugti area Warning: I repeat the warning I found from the original piece where I chance to come upon this news item - the photos are very disturbing and graphic, harden your heart if you want to see them.. 1/14/2006 7:09 AM @aqdas please try to get your hands on hamood-ur-rehman commission report which has been hidden away from all of us till now. it is the only investigation till now about 1971 and it is by a pakistani senior judge and not a bengali. @prabhu

Mullah Mansur

Prabhu

those pics are of american air strikes in afghanistan not balochistan. there was a full programme about it on Geo TV. @Friends 1/14/2006 9:02 AM @junaid I actually read the HR Commission report in 2001 when it was first released by an Indian newspaper. If memory serves me well, there is no mention of "atrocities" in it. It only deals with w/ the following: First, it analyses the decision to surrender. It focuses on why was it taken by the Eastern Command. Second, it talks at length about what certain officers did (desertion) and what should be done about it (court martial). Lastly, it takes account of certain acts of low moral turpitude carried out by the commanding officers at the front and what that did to the jawans' morale (it makes a recommendation that Army Mess establishments should be officialy made "dry" (no alchohol)and religosity should be inculcated (namaaz)in all ranks. Thus, I really don't know how that report is pertinent here. I think the best account (and most recent and probably unbiased) is the one provided by Mansur. Aqdas @On Rights I personally think that Baluch rights at this juncture are more a figment of Bugti's imagination than anything else. Living within a federation (like PAK) there can be legitimate demands for more rights. For instance, a bigger share of the National Finance Commission (NFC); more civil service and military jobs through quota; more developmental projects etc. However, to claim that certain natural resources that are found in Baluchistan are only for the Baluchs is not only mean and ludicrous but outright treacherous. By the same logic, then, all the wheat (atta) made in Punjab should belong to the Punjabis and they should take up arms to prevent it expropriation. No one here should underestimate the level at which tribal leaders can stoop to achive their mean spirited goals. If Bugti is so heart broken for his fellow Baluch why does he not implement immediate land reform and distribute his thousands of acres (yes, thousands) among his fellow Baluch? I rest my case. 1/14/2006 9:32 AM Aqdas The wheat logic doesn't work well because Punjab sells its wheat to people oustide Punjab and gets the money for it. What the Balochi's claim that their natural resources are sold outside and they seem to get no benefits. Fifty years ago using somone else's resources and not giving them benefits was called colonialism. Balochistan is very undeveloped compared to Punjab and even Sindh. The resentment is natural. The analogy with Bengal is that East Pakistan used to be a major foriegn revenue for Pakistan but never felt the benefits flowing to it. Rohit I agree the exact numbers of those killed in Bangladesh is unverifiable but a general sense of the scale comes through, give or take a few thousands. But the fact that you can close your eyes and state things like there could hardly have been more than a 100 rapes is just sad. Discounting the sexual violence the number of civilians disappeared or killed, particularly at the University is again undeniable. Has Pakistan ever issued an apology?

It is hard to believe that the army commits rapes. Not just driven by lust (as Omkar explains) but also as a definate part of the plan to subjudgate the population. In South Asia where community identity is tied up to women's honor, raping a woman is a ultimate insult to the community. Mansur, I have family members in the army and most armymen I know are gentleman. It horrified me to read about rapes done my the Indian Peace Keeping Forces in Jaffna. But after a point it was hard to deny a multiplicity of evidence. rohit 1/14/2006 10:49 AM it's going to happen. the rapes, i mean. i mean, just look at it this way, you are a soldier, you have a wife back home, but you've the sexual urge whenever you see this woman that belongs to the people that you've just militarily subjugated. you try to woo her; if she refuses, as she will, in most cases, you will rape her, because after all, you're the dominant force in her life right now and she'd better do what you say, right? if the army makes certain demands of the occupied people, they expect them to be satisfied, otherwise they will do so by force. this not only applies to sexual gratification, but also to food, fuel and other things the armed forces may require. in olden days, when most armies weren't salaried soldiers, rape and pillage was a way of boosting troop morale. heck, the jat-maratha alliance broke up prior to the third battle of panipat because the marathas refused the jats to plunder delhi, as it was a maratha protectorate. most armies in the olden days paid their soldiers from the plunder of cities defeated. 1/14/2006 11:11 AM @junaid here is the HR Commission report [chapter on alleged atrocities by the Pakistan Army], which, in my opinion, obviously favors the Pakistani establishment. [You can find other chapters on wiki’s Tikka Khan entry] Sandy yes, one might doubt the numbers put foreward by the bangladeshi side, but it would be unwise for the pakistanis to put blind faith on its army. after all, the pakistani aam-janta will have to continue to live with the army[-rule] PS- why is tikka khan, “the butcher of east pakistan”, also known as “the butcher of balochistan”? I found no mention of it on wiki. 1/14/2006 12:29 PM Severely constrained for time. Quick question. Suppose you find oil/gold/relics depot under your house; is it your property or the property of the state? @Rohit 1/14/2006 1:24 PM But the fact that you can close your eyes and state things like there could hardly have been more than a 100 rapes is just sad. Discounting the sexual violence the number of civilians disappeared or killed, particularly at the University is again undeniable. Has Pakistan ever issued an apology?

(OMkAr)

Mullah Mansur

Dude, what have you been somkin'? Why are attributing stuff to me that I have never said? Aqdas Why should Pakistan deliver an apology? And, to whom? A mistake has to accepted and recognized before an apology is submmitted. If PAK does not recognize the authenticity of the charges then how can they issue and apology? Along the same lines, then, why has Bangladesh not issued an apology for killing scores of

West Paksitanis? Do you see the weakness of your arguments? In other words, if I had a penny for every weakness in your arguments, I would be a millionaire. mansur 1/14/2006 2:35 PM depends on the kind of government, i guess. a very capitalist government would say that it is your property. a socialist government like india's would say that it's your property but you MUST sell it to the government at a price fixed by the government. (OMkAr) maybe a more social democratic government will say that it's your property but you can only sell to certain people at market price a certain quantity fixed by the government, and the rest you must sell to the government at a price fixed by the government. a very socialist government would say that the property belongs to the government and give you alternative property which you would HAVE to take. 1/14/2006 5:37 PM However, to claim that certain natural resources that are found in Baluchistan are only for the Baluchs is not only mean and ludicrous but outright treacherous. they are not laying claims to it. they want a share in the revenue generated from it. the natural gas which lits the cooking ranges of islamabad and lahore comes out from Sui and yet the people of sui themselves cook using wood. why is that? unless there is justice and equality there would be no harmony. and can u give ur reasons for why bengalis wanted to have a separate state back in 1971? the reasons are very much the same today in 2006 in balochistan. @rohit most army men are well disciplined during peace time. however war makes an animal out of even the finest gentlemens. when u know there is no one to report to or answer to, human nature can do miracles. 1/14/2006 7:20 PM While the exact figure have been debated even conservative estimates put civilian deaths into the millions. Its been argued that the number of dead far exceeded those in Rwanda and Cambodia. And i'll quote this: The documents released on June 28 provide full coverage of the US policy towards India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the newly created state of Bangladesh from January 1969 to December 1972. Documents from March to December 1971 include intelligence assessments, key messages from the US embassies in Islamabad and New Delhi and the Consulate General in Dhaka, responses to National Security Study memoranda and full transcripts of the presidential tape recordings that are summarized and excerpted in editorial notes in volume XI. The historian branch of the State Department held a two-day conference on June 28 and 29 on US policy in South Asia between 1961 and 1972, inviting scholars from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh to express their views on the declassified documents. During the seminar, Bangladeshi scholars acknowledged that their official figure of more than 3 million killed during and after the military action was not authentic. They said that the original figure was close to 300,000, which was wrongly translated from

Mullah Mansur

Bengali into English as three million. Shamsher M. Chowdhury, the Bangladesh ambassador in Washington who was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1969 but had joined his country’s war of liberation in 1971, acknowledged that Bangladesh alone cannot correct this mistake. Instead, he suggested that Pakistan and Bangladesh form a joint commission to investigate the 1971 disaster and prepare a report. Almost all scholars agreed that the real figure was somewhere between 26,000, as reported by the Hamoodur Rahman Commission, and not three million, the official figure put forward by Bangladesh and India. 1/14/2006 7:20 PM While you might still continue to haggle about the 26,000 figure, I'm hoping at the very least you will be shy of using the millions scale in the future. Mullah Mansur 1/14/2006 7:58 PM @sandy my point is that the real hamood-ur-rehman comission report was never allowed to be published because it contained names of great soldiers like gen tiger ( the one with a tail) niazi and company. the small snippets of the report which we see today can very probably be forged ones. lets hope the real report surfaces some where in the near future but its chances are very less. @aqdas the fact that pakistan doesnt accept that a crime has been commited doesnt mean the crime has REALLY NOT BEEN COMMITTED. similarly if bengalis do not want to say sorry for killing west pakistanis , why should we also relegate ourselves to the same low levels by following what they are doing. accepting your own mistake doesnt make you a smaller person. it further makes you strong. however, if u dont want to accept that pakistani army didnt do any thing in 1971 , i dont have any problem with that. you have a right to put forward your own suggestions and views of history. however, i hope that if u ever really come up with solid evidence that indeed pakistan army did rape women and kill thousands, you will have the courage to change your opinion and accept the dark murderous past of our army. 1/14/2006 8:07 PM @sandy i just had a quick look at the report. i didnt find it pro-army. it clearly speaks about the attitude of non-bengali army officers to the rest of bengalis. and yes ofcourse bengalis were no angels either. after seeing their country torn apart by outsiders they also must have wanted revenge and killed and raped any one they got their hands on. its simple: tit for tat.

Mansur 1/14/2006 8:29 PM The common law rule is that whoeever has the best title to the property gets it. So if A robs B of his wallet and drops it on the road where its picked by C. B has rights over C and A has rights over both. We enacted law for this called the Indian Treasure Trove Act. Unlike Omkar's theory, the finder basically has to deposit it with the collector then the public can make claims. Basically if someone can be shown to have better title to the property then there is some sort of division between them. Rohit However if the treasure is found on public grounds and there are no claimiants the state gets it. Natural resources such as Oil can be compulosritly aquired by the state for certain consideration. 1/14/2006 11:12 PM @junaid <<<…i didnt find it pro-army...and yes ofcourse bengalis were no angels either. after seeing their country torn apart by outsiders they also must have wanted revenge and killed and raped any one they got their hands on…its simple: tit for tat.>>> But the report mentions: “between 100,000 and 500,000 [west-pakistani/pro-pakistani] persons were slaughtered during this period [March 1-25, 1971] by the Awami League militants.” “….The crimes committed by the Awami League miscreants were bound to arouse anger and bitterness in the minds of the troops, especially when they were not only confined to barracks during the three weeks immediately preceding the military action, but were also subjected to the severest of humiliations. They had seen their comerades insulted, deprived of food and rations, and even killed without rhyme or reason. Tales of wholesale slaughter of the families of West Pakistani officers and personnel of several units had also reached the soldiers who were after all only human, and reacted violently in the process of restoring the authority of the central government” i.e., the Bengalis killed the west-pakistanis before the March crackdown, and actually the Pakistani army might have been the one taking revenge Now is it believable that the Pakistani army waited until up to 5,00,000 west Pakistanis were killed, that under martial law too? Now, does it mean no biharis were killed after 16 dec, 1971? There must have been revenge killings. I have no idea how many were killed, especially since the Indian army probably wouldn’t have allowed the Bengalis take widespread revenge even if they wanted to [how many surrendered Pakistani soldiers had been allowed to be lynched by the Bengali mob?] finally, I suspect the report to be biased because I find the figures put foreword by the report ludicrous: Bengalis killed: 26,000 West-pakistanis/ biharis killed: 1,00,000-5,00,000 [note the wide range] 1/14/2006 11:16 PM Also from the report: “…Harrowing tales of these atrocities were narrated by the large number of West Pakistanis and Biharis who were able to escape from these places and reached the safety of West Pakistan. For days on end, all through the troubled month of March 1971, swarms of terrorised non-Bengalis lay at the army controlled Dacca airport awaiting their turn to be taken to the safety of West Pakistan…”

Sandy

Sandy

Now read this relatively recent Dawn article: “…Bengalis are poised to celebrate their independence day on December 16. But what are some 2.5 lakh ‘Pakistanis’, stranded in Bangladesh since 1971, doing here? …” “…After independence, the government of Bangladesh offered the community two options — staying back in Bangladesh as its nationals or repatriation to Pakistan. A total of 5,29,669 non-Bengalis expressed their desire to go to Pakistan.” “…After 32 years of broken promises by successive Pakistani governments, the bitterness is now apparent. “The ruling elite of Pakistan, especially the politicians and bureaucrats, are responsible for the plight of the stranded Pakistanis”, comments Nasim Khan, president of the SPGRC.” “Over Rs 100 crore has been collected in Pakistan for the cause of our repatriation and settlement, but till today we have neither been repatriated nor helped financially with that money,” says his deputy Ehtesham Khan. “In 2002, we met Gen. Musharraf when he visited Dhaka and urged him to resolve our longstanding problem. He assured us of repatriation, emphatically, and asked us to leave it to him. Not once, thrice! Today all I want to ask him is, ‘Gen. Musharraf, we left it to you Sir but who did you leave it to?” link 1/14/2006 11:20 PM @sandy again u must remember this is a part of the report declassified by the gov of pakistan after almost 40 yrs. plus if it was pro-army then why was it no declassified and made public right there in 1974? it is openly known that this report contained the names of the top criminal/generals and bhutto was in no mood to start another political crisis in pakistan. so he simply suppressed the report. and why has gov of pak only declassified only one part of the report. why not the whole of it? it simply point towards the fact that this report has been tampered with before declassifying it. 1/14/2006 11:33 PM Incidentally, why did Pakistan not take the Bihari civilians back? Bangladesh doesn't want them, they want to leave and Pakistan doesn't want them. Aparently they live in HUGE refugee camps outside Dhaka. Rohit 1/14/2006 11:45 PM @rohit during nawaz sharif's time there was a program to re settle them back in pakistan. i saw a news item on TV which was a documentary about biharis being brought back to pakistan. a small town has been set up for them some where in punjab and hundreds of biharis were settled in punjab. ofcourse the limited resources of gov of pak do not allow all biharis to be accomodated. 1/15/2006 12:20 AM <<<Aparently they live in HUGE refugee camps outside Dhaka>>> there are big ones inside Dhaka too. The biharis make the best kababs in Dhaka, and many well-off people frequent those dirty road-side eateries near the ‘Geneva camp’- probably the largest one. There is no restriction on their movement. And many non-bengalis, especially the ones who do not want to go to Pakistan- both rich [yes, many successful businesses-

Sandy

including private airlines- are run by non-bengali families] and poor, live outside the camps. 1/15/2006 12:43 AM The problem is these are the same Biharis which actually left india in persuit of Pakistan and now find themselves in a confused state...... $!^&hY@)( They could have had same freedom in India as well.. so all their sacrifice and labour bears them nothing?? 1/15/2006 10:13 AM <<< ofcourse the limited resources of gov of pak do not allow all biharis to be accomodated.>>> of course Pakistani financial limitation is one major issue, but according to the following report, “Pakistan’s domestic politics [*especially of mr Bhutto and his daughter*] and its general disinterest in receiving the Biharis have prevented a permanent settlement of the problem to date.” “…Islamabad, however, was less interested and showed a lax attitude about the repatriation of the Biharis except those who joined the East Pakistan Civil Armed Forces and surrendered with the Pakistan Army. According to a Pakistani Foreign Ministry official: “What are we supposed to do with them (the Biharis)? We have enough problems already. Besides, you must remember that they are really Indian refugees.” Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the first post-1971 civilian president of Pakistan, was even unwilling to admit any sizeable number of ‘Bihari refugees’ to be repatriated to Pakistan.” Sandy moreover, the report also states, “In 1988, a trust agreement was signed between Pakistan and Rabita Al-Alam Al-Islami (an Islamic charity organization, hereafter Rabita) to expedite the process of Bihari resettlement in Pakistan. A repatriation and resettlement plan was drawn up which included the construction of 36,000 houses spread over 80 sites costing about $278 million and with approximately $30 million for community services and $10 million for the transportation of the refugees. Despite elaborate preparations, the repatriation process could not get off the ground.” link more on the condition of the biharis: #1 #2 1/24/2006 12:31 AM . . “East Pakistan: The end game” as the topic goes started right after the language riots in Dhaka while Quaid was still alive. Thereafter there have been actions and retaliations from the respective sides i.e. the ruling clique in the west and the people of East Pakistan with its local leaders. As early as 1964, I can recall my Bengali classmates in Karachi, used to say that the two wings cannot and will not remain together. Religious papers Jasarat in Karachi and Sangram in Dhaka used to incite local sentiments. In west we were told that struggle in the east was Hindu led against Islam, while in Dhaka they used to print that the west is exploiting and looting the East. As pointed by Sandy in an earlier post there were atrocities by the Mukti Bahini prior to the Yahya’s military action. I can recall the rumors that a shipload of mutilated bodies of west Pakistanis arriving to Karachi harbor.

Syed

Syed

Contnued….. 1/24/2006 12:33 AM . . My uncle who used to write for Pakistan observer (Dhaka) and remained under detention during Yahya’s rule, used to say without mincing word, that the separation of the eastern wing was formally decided by Ayub Khan. The Hamood Report points out towards Altaf Gauhar (a bureaucrat) for drafting the famous Six Points of Mujeeb, and narrates an occasion during the roundtable conference where Mujeeb first read his Six Points. The report also gives you the reaction of the Bangali leaders Nurul Ameen and Mehmood Ali. Punjabi landlords, Pak Army, and the bureaucracy in Islamabad could never ever conceive the idea that the people can rule them; not than and not even now. Pray for the solidarity and safety of what remains of Pakistan and keep up the good discussion. 1/24/2006 3:36 PM nice insight into the events of 1971. its always good to hear a first hand narrative of the events. what were the feelings of west pakistanis immediately after 1971? and is it true that in that time of great trouble LIbya gave an aid of almost a billion US dollars to pakistan and rescued it from bankruptcy? 1/25/2006 1:06 AM what were the feelings of west pakistanis immediately after 1971? Every one was stunned and in a state of disbelief. It is almost 36 years after that event; tears still roll over when I write these lines. This is the feeling whenever I am reminded of that that event That feeling was not only on this side of the divide the same was the case on the eastern wing. At a later stage when Bhutto visited Bangladesh my uncle was also in the entourage. There were so many people to shake hands with him that when he came back to the hotel his sleeve was torn out of his kurta. A fellow Bengali journalist of his was so moved that he could not help and bite on his shoulder. He says that every one in the Dhaka press club was crying loud like children as if some one was dead. 1/25/2006 1:41 AM and is it true that in that time of great trouble LIbya gave an aid of almost a billion US dollars to pakistan and rescued it from bankruptcy? Colonel Muammar Gaddafi those days was a great friend of Pakistan, though I am not sure of the amount of his contribution. Muammar Gaddafi, King Faisal, Houari Boumédienne, Hafez al-Assad and many more were supportive and had vision for the progress of Muslims in general and the third world in particular.

Syed

Syed

The above were Muslims; they had to. Within weeks of the ceasefire between India and Pakistan after the war of 71, Indira Gandhi, our adversary allowed Mazhar Ali Khan (Father of Tariq Ali) and Syed Najiullah (my uncle), in their private capacity to travel to Bangladesh through her country. Mujeeb ur Rahman welcomed them. The purpose was to explore if we, Bangladesh and West Pakistan, can still live together as a confederation. 1/25/2006 12:31 PM A fellow Bengali journalist of his was so moved that he could not help and bite on his shoulder Umm..that sounded really strange.

Rohit 1/25/2006 4:43 PM wow i never knew all this. what was mujeeb's reaction to the proposal of still living together.

1/25/2006 11:00 PM The thing died before it could take any start. The whole show was still under the radicals of Mukti Bahini; followers of Tajuddin Ahmed and Major Ziaur Rahman. The emotions were running high in Dhaka. Certain quarters were asking for the trial of the POW’s on Nuremberg style. Mujeeb had yet to consolidate his position. The visit was solely on the request of the two journalists Mazhar Ali Khan and Syed Najiullah. Bhutto government in the west allowed them to proceed via India; we were yet to recognize the new country of Bangladesh. They met Indira Gandhi in New Delhi, and conditions were created for them to proceed to Dhaka. Mujeeb or the Bangladesh Government did not object to the scheme. I don’t recall or remember if they met Mujeeb or not. When both of them were in Dhaka Kausar Niazi (I think he was Information Minister of Pakistan) issued a press statement that Mazhar Ali Khan and Syed Najiullah have gone to Bangladesh on the invitation of Mujeeb. This was embarrassing for the authorities in Dhaka. The moment Kausar Niazi statement was received in Dhaka both the journalist were put in the military jeep and confined to the hotel until they were flown back. 1/26/2006 6:33 AM It is and was an odd situation really!!! the same army actually concieded to the Six points when all was lost.....but then again what can you expect from a short Sighted person!!! $!^&hY@)( and even today its Bengalis who are actually called traitors for the Bifurcation rather the the People who actually "Master Mind" that!!! also Its a Big mistake to think, a Illegtimate Leader, like an Army Chief will ever allow truth to come out, as it was......

Syed

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=6208650&start=1 topic: was zulfi bhutto behind disintegeration of east pa was zulfi bhutto behind disintegeration of east pa 1/9/2005 10:00 AM many people say that bhutto was behind the creation of bangladesh. he tore polish resolution in united nations.he did not allow his party MNAs to attend national assembly session in dakkah. he did not cooperatev with mujib. he later released mujib and recognized bangladfesh and hios famous sloagon "AIDHAR HUM , UDHAR TUM" 1/9/2005 10:35 AM Good Topic Rana Sahab! Yaaar, actually, Bhutto Sahab said," Agar idhar tum jeetoo hoo tu idhar hum jeetay hain, agar idhar tum hoo tu idhar hum hain." Next day, a newspaper came up with a huge heading saying "idhar hum udhar tum" which sent a totally wrong message to the masses. It is just like Woolmer said that Shoaib played really well in the first two test but in the last he was shadow of his past. And the media came up with the idea that Woolmer criticizes Akhtar for the loss. Well, what I shall like to point out is that "Dhaka Fall" was not the worst part of the story. The real debacle was actually the tradegy that was before the actual loss of Bangladesh, that is, the death and destruction that befell our Bangladeshi brothers and sisters. I think that the conditions that were prevalent at that time made independence of Bangladesh inevitable but the manner in which it happened was devastating. I think many people and institutions were responsible for it ,may be Bhutto Sahab should have shown more flexibility. And about the recognition of Bangladesh , well it was a stark reality we had to recognise it sooner or later. And he had to release Mujeeb because if he had kept him or killed him, Mujeeb would have become one of the greatest leader in South Asian History. Yaar, just think about the great feat of rebuilding a torn nation into a regional power within a span of 6 years that Bhutto Sahab achieved. Few people know that there was a great separatist movement in Balochistan just after the Dhaka Fall and Bhutto Sahab dealt with it in a great manner. Yeah, he made a few mistakes and every mortal makes them but just think about his achievements and all his mistakes will vanish into thin air. 1/10/2005 8:16 AM yes i agree. mujib got his fate in the army coup of 1970s. he was killed in a brutal way along with family members and nobody touched his body for many days

Rana

Mujji

Rana 1/14/2005 8:23 AM Absolutely not------- There were several occasions where establishment could prove it if it was true. At least two documents; the white paper (a number of books released at different occasions by Zia containing forged documents) and the Hamood ur Rahman Commission Report does not accuse Bhutto of the charge. Zia had to conspire with false charges and fictitious stories which were not political in nature to get rid of Bhutto. Idher hum udhar tum was a Jamat Jasarat lies and conspiracy.

Syed

Syed

Yahya was guided by the lobby which to date works for some kind of a role for the army in Pakistan politics. He imposed a binding condition on the elected representatives of Pakistan to prepare and agree on a constitution within 90 days of the commencement of the assembly, namely LFO. If the assembly was not able to give a constitution Yahya had his constitution authored by Justice Cornelius ready to be implemented which gave a presidential form of government run by him. Tufail of Jamat had seen it and was in favor and declared it to be Islamic. Mujeeb won on the basis of six points which were said to be authored by some bureaucrat (Hamood Report hints). Mujeeb’s manifesto was nothing but a recipe for separation. recipe for separation.... Continued 1/14/2005 8:23 AM Not attending the assembly; Bhutto was very clear about that. He did stop his party members to attend the assembly session. He set preconditions for the session to start. He said that calling of the assembly was a trap of Yahya to prolong military rule. He wanted the 90 days condition imposed by LFO be removed and the assembly be allowed to work and deliberate on the agreement for the people of Pakistan to live together. If the 90 days condition stayed he wanted all the major political leaders to agree on all the important points of the future constitution. When ZAB gave the constitution he got together JUI, NAP, and PPP to agree on the draft and sign it before taking it to the assembly. What he confessed was that

the mess created by the establishment and the armed forces for about 25 years could not be cleared with in 90 days with LFO hanging on the heads of the parliamentarians. What Mujeeb wanted was separate currency, finance, foreign policy, trade, armed forces, banking system etc. Bhutto went to the extent of accepting 5 points of Mujeeb. If Mujeeb ever was a Pakistani he should have named his country PAKISTAN. I supported Bhutto as his voter and support now as his admirer. Hamood-ur-rehman commission report 1/15/2005 1:11 AM it actually contained 40 pages against bhutto but as bhutto was in power so he got them deleted. secondly if the report had nothing about bhutto then why did Mr Bhutto did not made the masses to see the report...Daal mein Kuch kala Tha Rana 1/15/2005 7:42 AM Do you or any one else has those 40 pages? Several governments who came after Bhutto were hostile and tried to dig out what ever they could and failed. Many of those governments and care takers had only one purpose that is to malign him or his family. Mind you most of the important papers in the government custody bear Bhutto's signature or notes. Zia had to forge most of the documents whose copies he has published in the white papers. Only accusing him is not enough. besides... 1/16/2005 5:21 AM apart from tht i saw dr shahid masood's program tht day on the debacle of east pakistan in wich he interviewed a ptv official of pre-east pakistan separation....the guy revealed that mujeeb even a year before independence insisted on using the name Bangladesh in his speeches nd broadcastings...this guy had an interview with Mujeeb in wich Mujeeb kept on using the name bangladesh as a separate entity.....seems like Mujeeb no longer wanted any link with pakistan 1/17/2005 4:35 AM How can Bhutto be held responsible for Bangladesh while he was not even the part of establishment or the ruling body PS he was in USA will Bangladesh got seprated.

Syed

Khizer

Ahmed Ali Exodus of fellow Bengali students 1/17/2005 7:43 AM this guy had an interview with Mujeeb in wich Mujeeb kept on using the name bangladesh as a separate entity Khizer I can recall those days there used to be Bengali students with us in college. Most of those were very active in politics. Not siding any party but taking not of the changing political conditions and issues effecting people in general and students in particular. I remember many of those leaving Karachi to go back taking leave not to return again. This phenomenon was more apparent after the decade of reforms of Ayub. I remember some of those mentioned it in clear words that living together is impossible. 1/18/2005 3:34 AM MR BHUTTO was DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND FOREIGN MINISTER OF UNITED PAKISTAN WHEN EAST PAKISTAN GOT SEPERATED.AIR MARSHAL(R) ASGHAR KHAN SAID THAT MUJIB WAS ALSO THE PATRIOT BUT THE POLITICANS(BHUTTO) AND THE ARMY DID SUCH ACTIONS WHICH MADE HIM CREATE BANGLADESH

Syed

Rana

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=24310497&start=1 topic: Bhutto's speech to the un Bhutto's speech to the un 9/17/2005 10:41 AM i really want to read the text of the speech that bhutto gave to the un security council, i thnk in 1965......... the one where he said "we will wage war for a thousand years......" i know that there are books on bhutto's speeches but i would really like to get my hands on this particualr speech ASAP. could some one be nice enough to tell me what website i could look up. thanx 9/21/2005 10:18 AM yaaa he said that my country izzz in danger n we r waisting our time over here n crop da paper n all pakiz cum out from de assembly.......but sorry 2 say he was drunk at dat time...i listen 4m my elderz... 9/22/2005 6:45 AM Jammu and Kashmir is not an integral part of India and has never been an integral part of India. Jammu and Kashmir is a territory disputed between India and Pakistan. It is more a part of Pakistan than it can ever be of India, with all the eloquence and with all the extravagance with words displayed by India. The people of Jammu and Kashmir are part of the people of Pakistan in blood, in flesh, in life-----kith and kin of ours, in culture, in geography, in history and in every way and in every form. They are a part of the people of Pakistan. We will wage war for a thousand years, a war of defence. I told that to the Security Council a year ago when that body, in all its wisdom and in all its power, was not prepared to give us even a resolution. The Security Council felt that we had brought a dead horse to this council that we were trying to make internal propaganda. But the world must know that the 100 million people of Pakistan will never abandon their pledges and promises. The Indians many abandon their pledges and promises; we shall never abandon ours, irrespective of our size and of our resources. We shall fight to the end, but we shall fight in self- defence; we shall fight for honor. We are not aggressors; we are the victims of aggression. It was the duty of the Security Council to pronounce itself on who is the aggressor and who is the aggressed; it is Pakistan that is the victim of aggression. These are two paragraphs form the “Address to the Twelve Hundred and Forty-fourth Meeting of the Security Council on September 22, 1965”. The book is “Important Speeches and Press Conferences of Zulfikar ali Bhutto Foreign Minister of Pakistan”. The book has around 760 pages, printed at the Inter Services Press Ltd., Karachi J-228 June 1966 9/22/2005 6:46 AM Recalling those days I like to put my own views here. Like it is today in those days also the UN was unable to solve any of the problems which were contrary to the wishes of the super powers the USSR and the USA. To each action which went in favour of Pakistan USSR was always there to Veto the move. We the youth in the weaker countries were seriously thinking of quitting the UNO, I was a college boy in those days. It was speculated in those days that Dr. Ahmed Suikarno of Indonesia was actually planning such an event where all the poor and helpless countries of the third world were to join the organization of the poor. Below I like to copy the last paragraph of the same speech. It is very difficult to feel the pain felt by ZAB due to the ineffectiveness of the organization just by reading the extracts; you should read the whole speech to grasp the heat of the event. I don’t know how many of you have faced a situation when you are on correct path and still punished for no reason. I am not saying that in the form of an ultimatum. I am saying it as I am honour bound to respect the very purposes of the Charter. In leaving the United Nations, Pakistan will be fulfilling the Charter of the United Nations. And then one third or more of the world will be outside the organization. 9/22/2005 7:14 AM @A.J(asad) Dear Asad. What you are referring to is the polish resolution. Your elders might have given you their perspective. I like you to read what I have to say, and judge for yourself, in the given situation what would you do. Syed

Ayesha

A.J(asad)

Syed

Syed

It was the 1971 war and resulting UN meeting. This was the time when Pakistan was about to breakup. India and its allies were delaying any resolution and waiting for the Dhaka to fall in the Indian hands. I have not seen the text of polish resolutions. But know for sure that the resolution was not in favour of Pakistan and all the movers of that resolution were worst enemies of our country. All those in favour of the polish resolution were having military pacts with India. Thank You 9/23/2005 5:32 AM First of all, let me thank you Syed Sahib, for making us aware of our national history. But beyond that i had like a favour, can you please create an entire online version of this very speech...or do you know where i could find the video on the internet.Thank You. Regards Ayesha 9/23/2005 8:13 PM It hurts to admit that we as a nation have a very rich heritage and how we preserve it. The PTV had a rich collection of videos and films pertaining to all the events relating to Bhutto. During Zia’s regime that record was systematically burnt, if at all the videos are available these will be from the personal collections of people who love Bhutto. Syed As for the speech subject of present discussion I have requested my daughter to type it out. I will put that on this very thread 9/24/2005 1:38 AM Address by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto to the twelve Hundred and Forty-Fourth Meeting of the Security Council on September 22, 1965 Mr. President, I am thankful to you and to the members of the Security Council for having met at this late hour to discuss a matter of vital importance to my people, to the sub-continent, to Asia, and perhaps to the world at large. In expressing my gratitude I would like to address not only the permanent members but also the other members of the Security Council for having taken the trouble to be with us this morning. I have come direct from Pakistan, and I have requested this meeting because the issues that face us are indeed so fundamental and important that it is necessary for us to meet to dilate upon them. I am thankful also to the Secretary-General for his endeavors to bring about a meaningful settlement between India and Pakistan. We are aware of all his efforts; we are grateful to him and to the Security Council; we are grateful to all peace-loving countries for having taken such a direct interest in a war which we do not want, which has been imposed on us by a predatory aggressor. Syed Pakistan is a small country. You have only to look at a map of the world and see our size to be aware of our resources and our ability. We are facing a great monster, a great aggressor always given to aggression. During the sixteen or seventeen years of our independence we have seen India commit aggression time and again. Ever since 1947, India has followed the road of aggression. It committed aggression against Junagadh, against Manavadar, against Mangrol, against Hyderabad and against Gova. It brought about a situation which has caused the Sino-Indian conflict. It has committed aggression against Pakistan. And Pakistan, according to Indian leaders, is its enemy number one. Pakistan is supposed to be the country which is the fulcrum of India’s fundamental policies. From 1947 we have been faced with this situation. We have always known that India is determined to annihilate 9/24/2005 1:39 AM food-neighbourly relations with India. He knows that from the very beginning our President, from the time he came into office, has made positive gestures to India to establish goodneighbourly relations with his country. We have taken many initiatives to bring peace, tranquility and friendship between Pakistan and India. These are matters of record, not a question of propaganda, of trying to get kudos. These are tangible and well-known facts of history: that ever since he has become President of Pakistan he has gone out of his way to establish good relations with India by co-operation in every field-co-operation in trade, in economics and in politics. Has the world forgotten that in 1959 it was the President of Pakistan who made an offer to India to disengage, to bring about a meaningful settlement so that our armies do not face each other in an eyeball-to-eyeball stance, so that we may take

Syed

care of our own difficulties? These are matters of record, matters of history. Thus we want good-neighbourly relations with India; we want peace and friendship with India. But that peace and friendship must be peace with honour and it must be peace of a self-respecting sovereign State. India must accept that. India must know that peace can be established only on the basis of self-respect and honour, on the basis of its own commitments, on the basis of its won pledges, on the basis of its own promises to the people of Pakistan, to the people of India, to the world at large and, above all, to the people of Jammu and Kashmir. Jammu and Kashmir is not an integral part of India and has never been an integral part of India. Jammu and Kashmir is a territory disputed between India and Pakistan. It is more a part of Pakistan than it can ever be if India, with all the eloquence and with all the extravagance with words displayed by India. The people of Jammu and Kashmir are part of the people of Pakistan in blood, in flesh, in life-kith and kin of ours, in 9/24/2005 1:40 AM Pakistan. Pakistan’s basic principle was the bringing about of a permanent settlement between the two major communities. For seven hundred years we sought to achieve equilibrium between the people of the two major communities. We believed eventually that the only way to live in lasting peace with India was to establish our own homeland, to establish a country smaller in are, but nevertheless capable of having a relationship, a modus vivendi, with a great and powerful neighbor. That was one of the prime factors responsible for the creation of Pakistan. We know that in Europe certain countries have had the separate in order to get closer together; Sweden and Norway, for instance, had to separate in order to get closer to on another. We believed that with the creation of Pakistan we would be able to establish a permanent peace, a permanent understanding, b between the people of India and people of Pakistan. Syed We are a smaller country and, as said, our resources are limited; one has only to look at a map of the world and a map of the sub-continent to see that. We are not interested in war. We do not want aggression; we do not want conflict. We want peace in order that our people can develop. This is the age of rising expectation. We should like to see all our energies and all our efforts directed towards economic well-being. It is not the low of God that people in Asia and Africa should be poor. It is not a predestined rule or an immutable law that they should always remain in poverty. We want to break the barriers of poverty; we want to give our people a better life; we want our children to have a better future. The leaders of Asia and Africa are determined to break the barriers and legacies of the past. In order to do so we must channel all our resources for productive ends, for a peaceful and purposeful future. This is a dire need for a country such as Pakistan. 9/24/2005 1:41 AM We do not want conflict. We are not for war. We do not want to see the extermination of peoples. We respect and have regard for the people of India. A few years ago we were part of the same country, but, for the reason which I have stated, we were obliged to separate. By means of separation we had thought that our people would be brought closer together, that we should bring about harmony, understanding and tranquility. The basic idea in the creation of Pakistan was that the areas occupied by the Muslim majority should form Pakistan. This basic principle was accepted by the Indian leaders. All we ask is to live in peace, friendship and goodwill with India on the basis of the understanding and agreements which the Indian government and the Indian leaders themselves solemnly pledged to my people and my country. Today we are fighting a war, a war imposed on us by India, a naked, predatory, unwarranted aggression by 450 million people against 100 million people, a war of chauvinism and aggrandizement by a mighty neighbor against a smaller country. It is as if, in Europe, France or Germany committed aggression against Denmark. It is as if a small country in South America were subjected to aggression by Argentina or Brazil. It is as if the United States waged a war against a small country. We don not want to be exterminated. We cherish life. We want to live; we want our people to live; we want our people to progress. But today our cities are being bombed indiscriminately by the might of India, by the formidable machine of the Indian armed forces.

Syed

This will not, however, deter us from seeking justice. We are resolved to fight for our honour, to fight for Pakistan, because we are the victims of aggression. Aggression has been committed against the soil of Pakistan. Irrespective of our size, irrespective of our resources, we have the resolve, we have the will, to fight because ours is a just cause. Ours is a righteous cause. We are wedded to principle. We are wedded to our 9/24/2005 1:41 AM own pledges. We believe in the right of self-determination------a Wilsonian right, as I told you this evening, sir, a concept which has inspired the whole of Asia and Africa. It is a phenomenon that cannot be stopped; and that is why we are fighting. We are fighting with our backs to the wall, but we shall fight with all determination, irrespective of the odds and of all the forces that are pitted against us. The secretary-general, as I have already said, has made some very constructive suggestions, and we are grateful to him. He is not only the Secretary-General of the United Nations; he is also a great Asian from a great Asian neighbor of Pakistan and of India. And we should like to co-operate with him both in his capacity as the Secretary-General and as a leader of a great Asian country. We have had useful discussions with him in Pakistan, and we told him that are for peace. We do not want war, we do not want destruction and we do not want disaster. But it should be a meaningful peace, a purposeful peace, a peace for all time, a peace in which India and Pakistan can live as good neighbours. We are neighbours and we want to live as good neighbours. We do not want to have conflict and trouble with India for all time. No people would want that We are a smaller country. The cardinal principle of Pakistan’s foreign policy has been to establish good-neighbourly relations with all countries, with all its neighbours----and India is our principal neighbours. All our efforts to establish good-neighbourly relations with all other countries would be in vain if we are not able to establish good-neighbourly relations with India, which, as I have said, for historical political and geographical reasons is our principal neighbor. We will make every endeavor to establish such relations. The Indian representative, whom I know well and for whom I have great regard, is aware of the efforts we have made to establish 9/24/2005 1:42 AM principles to be negated and destroyed by sheer force and power. Having made those remarks, I have the honour to transmit the following message from the President of Pakistan, which I have just received from Rawalpindi. “Pakistan considers Security Council resolution 211 of 20 September as unsatisfactory. However, in the interests of international peace and in order to enable the Security Council to evolve a self-executing procedure which will lead to an honorable settlement of the root cause of the present conflict”_ Namely, the Jammu and Kashmir dispute_ “I have issued the following order to the Pakistan armed forces they will stop fighting as from 1205 hours West Pakistan time today. As from that time they will not fire on enemy forces unless fired upon, provided the Indian Government issues similar orders to its armed forces…” Thus, in response to the call of international peace and international goodwill, we have ordered our troops to cease hostilities, provided India agrees to such a cessation of hostilities. But a cessation of hostilities is not enough. The Security Council-the most important organ of the United Nations-must now address itself to the heart of the problem. For eighteen years it has played and toyed with the future of Kashmir. It can no longer make a plaything or a toy out of 5 million people. It is the moral responsibility of the Security Council to address itself to a meaningful and lasting solution of the problem of Jammu and Kashmir. The Security Council has been seized of this problem for eighteen years. There are more documents, more resolution on Jammu and Kashmir- the most fundamental problem facing the world today-than on any other problem. Is it not ironical that with regard to a conflict that may lead to world conflagration-and the present situation has shown that it is possible for this conflict to lead to world conflagration-the Security Council has shown lethargy and indolence?

Syed

Syed

9/24/2005 1:43 AM I was here a year ago, and the Security Council was not prepared to give Pakistan a piece of paper called a resolution. It did not even want to consider the problem. It thought that this was a dead issue, or that it was dormant. This can never be a dead issue; it can never be dormant. This is now the last chance for the Security Council to put all its force, all its energy, all its moral responsibility behind a fair and equitable and honorable solution of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute. History does not wait for councils, organizations or institutions, just as it does not wait for individuals. Ultimately we shall have to be the final determiners of our own course. Let me tell the Security Council, on behalf of my government, that if now, after this last chance that we are giving the Security Council, it does not put its full force, full moral responsibility and full weight behind and equitable and honorable settlement of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute, Pakistan will have to leave the United Nations. Syed We have decided to give the untied nations a last opportunity to determine what it can do towards a purposeful, peaceful and lasting settlement of the problem of Jammu and Kashmir. We shall give the United Nations a time-limit. Within a certain period of time, if the Security Council is not able to act in accordance with the responsibility placed on it, in accordance with its honour under the Charter which believes in self-determination, Pakistan will have to withdraw from the United Nations. I am not saying that in form of an ultimatum. I am saying it as I am honour bound to respect the very purposes of the Charter. In leaving the United Nations, Pakistan will be fulfilling that charter of the United Nations. And then one third or more of the world will be outside this Organization. 9/24/2005 1:43 AM culture, in geography, in history and in every way in every form. They are a part of the people of Pakistan. We will wage war for a thousand years, a war of defence. I told that to the Security Council a year ago when that body, in all its wisdom and in all its power, was not prepared to give us even a resolution. The Security Council felt that we had brought a dead horse to this Council that we were trying to make internal propaganda. But the world must know that the 100 million people of Pakistan will abandon their pledges and promises; we shall never abandon ours irrespective of our size and of our resources. We shall fight to the end, but we shall fight in self-defence; we shall fight for the honour. We are not aggressors; we are the victims of aggression. It was the duty of the Security Council to pronounce itself on who is the aggressor and who is the aggressed; it is Pakistan that is the victim of aggression. I am not referring here to some of the remarks made by countries which have no right to be here; they are not even countries. I am referring to the great powers; I am referring to those who believe in the cause of justice, in the cause of righteousness and in the cause of honour. After all, history is not in vain. Wars have been fought in the past ad people have upheld great causes. I am referring to the great powers and also to those other countries in the Security Council which have espoused the cause of righteousness. We are grateful to all of you for whatever you have done to uphold the cause of justice because, finally and ultimately, justice must prevail. We believe more than ever before that justice is bound to prevail for the people of Jammu and Kashmir. Five million people must have the right to decide their own future. Why should they be made an exception? Should the whole phenomenon of self-determination, stretching from Asia and Africa, apply to the whole world excepting the people of Jammu and Kashmir? Are they 9/24/2005 1:43 AM some outcasts of Indian society? Are they some untouchable pariahs that they should not be given the right to self-determination, that they should not be allowed to have the right to their own future? The great country of France permitted the Algerians to exercise the right of selfdetermination. The right of self determination is a Wilsonian concept. The Soviet Union believes in the right of self-determination of all peoples. The whole world believes in the right of self-determination. Must it be denied to the people of Jammu and Kashmir merely because power must prevail over principle? Power shall never prevail over principle. Finally and ultimately, principle must prevail over power. This is a Christian concept, it is an Islamic concept, and it is a civilized concept. Those nations which do not believe in such a concept must face the ultimate consequences. India is isolated today. India, in spite of its size and its resources, has no one to support it

Syed

Syed

openly. The whole of Asia and Africa supports the right of self-determination of the people of Kashmir. The Arab countries, in Casablanca, have supported the right of self-determination for the people of Kashmir. European countries have supported the right of self-determination for the people of Kashmir. The Secretary of State of the United States of America, Mr. Dean Rusk, said that the historical position is a plebiscite in Kashmir. On the one hand, you have the whole world arrayed on the side of the cause of right and justice and morality, and, on the other hand, you have a war machine, an arrogant and chauvinistic state breaking its pledges, breaking its promises and wanting to destroy the will and the spirit of people. The will and spirit of our people can never be destroyed. Let me tell you: you can have one cease-fire, you can have another cease-fire, but the 100 million people of Pakistan shall face extermination rather than forsake their principles or allow their 9/24/2005 5:40 AM principles or allow their principles to be negated and destroyed by sheer force and power. Having made those remarks, I have the honour to transmit the following message from the President of Pakistan, which I have just received from Rawalpindi. “Pakistan considers Security Council resolution 211 of 20 September as unsatisfactory. However, in the interests of international peace and in order to enable the Security Council to evolve a self-executing procedure which will lead to an honorable settlement of the root cause of the present conflict”_ Namely, the Jammu and Kashmir dispute_ “I have issued the following order to the Pakistan armed forces they will stop fighting as from 1205 hours West Pakistan time today. As from that time they will not fire on enemy forces unless fired upon, provided the Indian Government issues similar orders to its armed forces…” Thus, in response to the call of international peace and international goodwill, we have ordered our troops to cease hostilities, provided India agrees to such a cessation of hostilities. But a cessation of hostilities is not enough. The Security Council-the most important organ of the United Nations-must now address itself to the heart of the problem. For eighteen years it has played and toyed with the future of Kashmir. It can no longer make a plaything or a toy out of 5 million people. It is the moral responsibility of the Security Council to address itself to a meaningful and lasting solution of the problem of Jammu and Kashmir. The Security Council has been seized of this problem for eighteen years. There are more documents, more resolution on Jammu and Kashmir- the most fundamental problem facing the world today-than on any other problem. Is it not ironical that with regard to a conflict that may lead to world conflagration-and the present situation has shown that it is possible for this conflict to lead to world conflagration-the Security Council has shown lethargy and indolence? 9/24/2005 5:41 AM I was here a year ago, and the Security Council was not prepared to give Pakistan a piece of paper called a resolution. It did not even want to consider the problem. It thought that this was a dead issue, or that it was dormant. This can never be a dead issue; it can never be dormant. This is now the last chance for the Security Council to put all its force, all its energy, all its moral responsibility behind a fair and equitable and honorable solution of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute. History does not wait for councils, organizations or institutions, just as it does not wait for individuals. Ultimately we shall have to be the final determiners of our own course. Let me tell the Security Council, on behalf of my government, that if now, after this last chance that we are giving the Security Council, it does not put its full force, full moral responsibility and full weight behind and equitable and honorable settlement of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute, Pakistan will have to leave the United Nations. Syed We have decided to give the untied nations a last opportunity to determine what it can do towards a purposeful, peaceful and lasting settlement of the problem of Jammu and Kashmir. We shall give the United Nations a time-limit. Within a certain period of time, if the Security Council is not able to act in accordance with the responsibility placed on it, in accordance with its honour under the Charter which believes in self-determination, Pakistan will have to withdraw from the United Nations. I am not saying that in form of an ultimatum. I am saying it as I am honour bound to respect the very purposes of the Charter. In leaving the United Nations, Pakistan will be fulfilling that charter of the United Nations. And then one third or more of the world will be outside this Organization.

Syed

ATI

Thank u SYED Sahib... 9/30/2005 6:22 AM Dear Syed Sahib, I don't know about other's but i am very thankful to you for this speech i love Bhutto sahib very much but i love also those people's who love's Bhutto. Syed Sahib you are included in my ideal personalities & one day inshallah i'll meet u when i am able to meet u, if you don't mind may i add you in orkut i promise i don't disturb you i think i can learn much from you thank you 10/1/2005 8:27 PM Audio recording of the last part of the speech: http://www.historychannel.com/speeches/archive/speech_19.html

Mujji Back 2 da future... 10/5/2005 4:52 AM you should go the www.bhutto.org where there are all the speeches Martyr Bhutto, did. Thanks.

SsarFara zZ 10/5/2005 10:18 AM i once read an itneresting detail in a very interesting book. it was regarding the much romanticized speech that dear zulfi cut short while tearing his notes in a sensational gesture, and saying, with all his eloquence, "my country harkens me.." left the UN, at the time of war with india. the interesting detail in the book says that bhutto sahab had it all planned out, his theatrics, and so excited was the teenage benazir about it all, that she called up one of her friends and told her to watch the UN proceedings the next day and see how dashingly her famous papa will behave. none of my making up. its in the book. a very interesting one, i must say. called "The Terrorist Prince" about Mir Murtaza Bhutto 10/20/2005 9:01 PM Not all the books are to bring you what is true. Please always remember that the book reflects the political philosophy of the respective author and made colourful to make it commercially viable. Leave alone a particular book, the contemporary history 99 % of the time is biased in favour of the ruler. Please see the following link and the following paragraphs copied for you convenience. You will find some discussion on a related topic you may find it interesting. http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=927339&tid=5043269&start=1&na=2&nid= Bajwa and Rabbani are not honest people if they were honest they should have produced the text of the Simla Agreement in the text books and argued point by point to make their point. I know of these books my own children have read these books in their O Levels and in foundation year of professional degree. I taught to them that this is the truth but you must write what is taught to you in the schools and colleges. Syed As a student of O Levels you have the liberty to put both the views and can get away securing the marks. But if you are appearing through some Pakistani board you have no chance of getting marks and praising Bhutto at the same time. Our ruling clique can do any thing to remain in absolute power. Bhutto died 28 years ago but our ruling establishment and bureaucrats with or without uniform are afraid of him. They can mislead their own coming generations to discredit Bhutto. My additional post is to make sure that trying to speak the truth you may fail in your exams. In my BSc I have been a victim of such situation. I failed trying to write the logic and truth in the examination. If the examiner is a Bhutto fan you will get away but if the examiner happens to be one of the disciples of Bajwa/Rabbani then you had it. All the kids please take care.

Hussain

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=20282771&start=1 topic: He was a GR8 man He was a GR8 man 8/12/2005 4:36 PM hey every 1... I was reading Javed Hashmi's "Haan! Mein Baaghee hoon"... he wrote " Bhutto is young, He is young in everybody's memory. If he had been alive, he must have been 80 but now there's no one who has old Bhutto in his mind" .I think that, yes, Mr.Bhutto is very lucky. He is young in everybody's mind... n he is alive... (May his soul rest in peace) 8/12/2005 9:13 PM Absolutely no doubt about that he was the great man of his times. I like to share what I heard regarding Mr. Bhutto and his hard work. All the presidents need to go through the proposals reports and news to keep them abreast of the event and to come up to a decision on issues. It is said that unlike other presidents before him, and many after him also, he always wanted the complete reports and could go through a report as detailed as containing 500 pages. Normally Yahya Khan used to ask for a summary of 5 pages for a report of five hundred pages. Yahya had other activity for his colorful nights, Hamood report contains log sheets of the gate of president house with details of people male/female going in and out of the present house during his nights. Syed Bhutto would, with in two days, return the report with margin notes on almost every page. To the extent that he would correct spellings and punctuations. One such report was sent to him that contained the phrase “the matter was dealt with in retail” it was the typing mistake, instead of the word detail it was written retail. The report came back with thousand other remarks and the remark “what about the wholesale” What I want to show is that he used to stay in the office as late as 3 o clock in the morning working and reading different files and reports. He would not loose his touch of humor means he would not feel tired and board of the work: his dedication. May you all follow him and become great.

Waqas

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=739304&start=131&na=3&nid=187664-739304140387819 topic: Hail Ziaul Haq; Bhutto got what he deserved! Hail Ziaul Haq; Bhutto got what he deserved! 7/20/2004 10:30 PM Obviously i'm not a Bhutto fan. The only reason i've joined this group is on the constant insistence of its founder. I felt bad basits group had only one member :p Shujaat Shame! 7/21/2004 7:18 AM Its a shame....for the entire nation that a bold,. determined and honest leader like Bhutto was made a scapegoat at the behest of the west. He did for Pakistan which none had ever dared to do....He made Pakistan a nuclear power...He is the real founder of Pakistan's Nuclear program..and yes shujaat you are right..he got what he deserved...because if u do any good for this country or even think about doing it...u only get pain and sorrow...the zia administration hanged him to get rid of his popularity..but he still lives on...his PPP was the most popular party in the 2002 elections...whereas Zia's own son could only muster one seat that too with the help of another military administration....yes Bhutto got what he deserved...he lives on...in our memories and he will continue to live forever and ever! 7/29/2004 5:50 AM Nixon has mentioned in his book leaders that " ordinary ppl either hate leaders or they love them, but they are never indifferent to them' and believe me whenever some one is saying something abt this Great man, they always tend to have extreme reactions whenever ZAB'S name is mentioned, and it just proves that zab's stature is that of a leader. Not really! 7/29/2004 10:16 AM You could say the same about hitler too! ..."Extreme Reactions"... is Not equivalent to..."Great Leaders"...from where I come from. And Basit, you forgot to add one major point to his resume. Bhutto fueled the fire that burned our country into half. And this isn't just a mere allegation, its a verifiable and sustainable fact. Maybe your patriotism needs a better direction. Peace!:) Shujaat you need to get your facts straight! 7/29/2004 11:14 AM Hahah...shujaat u really make me laugh sometimes..but i must admire one thing..your audacity to present your self-created, totally biased and unrealistic views..that makes this whole discussion all the more interesting...so coming to the point.. what fueled the separation of East Pakistan? Was it really the events that happened in 1971? Well..to get your facts straight..no...we kept denying the Bengalis everything...Bengali was made the twin national language only after years of struggle by them (initially we had denied them that right too)...All the military and civil bureaucracy headquarters were in West Pakistan whereas 56% of the population came from East Pakistan. The Governors, High-level bureaucrats and even the judges to East Pakistan used to be imported from West Pakistan. The flood in 1970 literally crippled East Pakistan but no financial or even moral support came from West Pakistan...Now if u still think Z A Bhutto was behind it...I can only say..u r out here to write your own history..All this happened because uptil 71 your country had not seen real democracry..it had been ruled by the military..and that is what hurts me most...we have got worst wounds inflicted on us by our own military regimes and yet we do nothing about preventing such things in future... and finally the event that happened in 1971 that eventually led to the partition was the decision to send troops into East Pakistan to crush the uprising there...Now who sent the troops? your dear General Yahya or ZA Bhutto...was the army under Z A Bhutto's command when it was raping the East pakistani women and molesting the children there....It was all done by your own dear Great and Proud Generals...but we still lack courage to point fingers at them...and guess what ppl like General Niazi and General Yaha..got the state honors even after 1971..What a great nation we are..and someone who put ourselves back on the track after 71..and started the Nuclear project and created your country's first and only Steel mill...He was hanged!to be contd! Oh really!? 7/29/2004 2:57 PM basit, basit, basit... are u related to Bhutto?khair. You do make a good point however, when you talk about... oh wait, my bad, I started reading my response to you; you have NO good

Basit

Pirah Sindhu

Shujaat

Basit

Shujaat

points. I was waiting forever for you to point out the Generals and co-relate them with the Dacca collapse, must have taken all 3 of your brain cells, to work that one up, as you have done so, with your ridiculously munipulated facts, but interesting nonetheless... I shall be the beacon of light and tell you the whole story. Bhutto stands right there in line with the rest of those "Great and Proud Generals". Do you know why? Cuz At that time he sided with them. Bhutto 'Never' sided with the Bengalis and promised to deliver them their rights; the pre-71 bengali discriminations that you ever so rightly explained. Bhutto needed power, and it was againest his 'interest' to go againest the Generals. So darlin kindly go back read what I earlier said...he 'fueled' the fire that burned our country. Talkin abt the 'great' deeds of his 'highness'. You forgot another one; Bhutto had the audacity to produce a child that 'sucked' our country dry. Someone who lives far n away and still cherishes the luv of the people she deceived. Look i honestly couldn't care less, what you'all think. Every once in a while, I'll get a piece of argument so stupid that it's brilliant, yours qualifies right up there! Nothing personal Basit... no wait, now what fun would that be? damn right its personal, bring it on!! Peace!;) Hail Ziaul haq??? HAHA 7/30/2004 2:35 AM shujaat forget what you feel about bhutto - your not honestly saying you liked zia ul haq??

Altamash

And you should check out this one Bhutto speech he gave at the UN - it does not matter what you think what matters is that people still shout Jiay Bhutto and not Hail ziaul haq 7/30/2004 10:46 AM aaah yes... a true PPP supporter. A majority of the Pakistani population is illiterate...a majority of them are easliy manipulated. My advice to you is, dont go with the flow. Know the 'whole' story and learn to stand up for what 'you' believe in. What A Joke! 7/30/2004 12:22 PM Its hilarious Mr. Shujaat Ali..the way you present your argument. Replying to your first penultimate post..The decision to send army into Bangladesh was not Bhutto's..It was solely taken by GHQ and approved by Yahya Khan. The command to rape and molest the bengali women and children was not Bhutto's but issued by General Niazi and General Khan. These were the issues that fueled fire. Bhutto never ever sided with the decision of sending troops into East Pakistan. Even the Hamood-ur-Rahman commission report..the first and the only independent commission report..acquitted Bhutto of any charges of association in the Dacca fall...It does point some serious fingers at the military bureaucracy...so plz get your facts right first of all..I dont know from where you got this idea that Bhutto sided with sending troops into Bangladesh..and he was the one organized ure disgruntled and humiliated army after 71. He strenghened the military with modern arms..established arms factories in Wah, Punjab. Otherwise after 71..so accept the facts. Yes Bhutto became the Prime Minister after the fall of 71..but that does not mean that he is to be blamed for Dacca's fall..and if you r forgetting..He won the war against India twice (where ure generals had lost) once in Tashkent in 65 and then in Simla in 71. So Shuj.get your facts straight! and now being a Zia -ul-Haq fan...well its a whole new debate...i'll leave you to ponder over the real truth of Bhutto's legacy for the moment..the Zia-ul-Haq's bitter and harsh truths will follow soon! Response to the illiterate part 7/30/2004 12:47 PM Now Shujaat saahib..being uneducated does not meant that you cannot understand things that go around u..u dont need rocket science (:P) to figure out that the prices of things are going up and ure wages are not...you dont need to go to an IVY league college to find out that the law and order situation is getting bad..u dont need some private school lectures to explore that your children are not getting proper health care and education..the issues that surround the poor ppl of pakistan are ROTI KAPRA and MAKAAN...and guess what...who voiced this slogan...the one and only Zulfikar Ali Bhutto..He gave a voice to your lower middle-class..yes most of them are uneducated..does not mean that we shud not respect their opinion.. and let me remind you of our neighbours...recent elections...a heavy majority in the cities voted for BJP (they were even willing to accept the Gujarat Massacre..just for economic gains)..but the rural india..the poor and uneducated...toppled the BJP...u wanna know why..because they thought BJP fueled religious segregation...they realised that the economic gains were only for the rich and educated....and the beauty of democracy is..that the opinions of the poor, the uneducated and powerless get heard...they also have a say in the whole

Shujaat

Basit

Basit

process..Noww we can sit in our Air-conditioned rooms and moan about the lower middleclass as being uneducated and illiterate and making sure that we deny them every right..even the right to have their opinions heard....lets not forget that they are also the citizens of our country..yes their concerns might not be economic in nature but they concern all of us..a better life..a protected future for the children and everlasting peace...so lets respect their voice and opinion...the way Bhutto did..by raising the slogan of Roti, Kapra and Makaan!!! Bullshit* 7/30/2004 2:54 PM nnnnd...its back. The unflushable rhetoric of Bhuttos Sainthood. But before I break it down... i'll k you again; are you related to Bhutto? Khair. So darlin... read a couple of newspaper articles nd you think you know it all. Now the true story: Your Saint relished power. Your Saint relished e fact that the army was engaged in East Pakistan and provided an avenue for his own growth power. Ofcourse Bhutto didn't give the orders for the rape and the rest... he was in no position do so. What goes with your saint is the tacit approval of all the details that you laid out. Tell e if your saint can go all out for Roti, kapra and Makkan, why not stand for a united Pakistan in e first place? Why not stand against the military then?... maybe it just wasn't in his interest. ow about Zia.. i dont stand for everything what Zia did either... but i can take a shot at one ng. The 'soldier' Zia stood against the Russian superpower. He checked them there and then. hat did your 'saint' do? Whats the point of building casinos in Karachi when you are losing half e country? The next time you sell your soul to the devil, just think again...i know its not easy for meone like you, but try.. h yeah... The illiteracy factor; How many times have the Bhuttos come to power? Three times i ess; first your saint and then twice his daughter, the princess of...i'll leave that for your agination. Have you noticed that the people are still sayin the same slogan; Roti, Kappra and akaan. In all these 30 years have we moved on? Even after all those promises her highness ade, did it help? the second time she came back to power, she did absolutely nuthin but choke erself and her Brad Pitt husband on public money... And still... still if she comes back today, the blic will give her a 'heavy mandate'... Either our people are plain morons or just 'easily anipulated'. I'd go with the latter jus for the sake of it. So pleeeeese dont give me that bullshit bout our public opinion. 7/31/2004 2:33 PM heeyyy...y dont u quit tis community if u wana talk nasty abt our most famous leader of paki history (after the Quaid)..u need 2 get ur facts n figures straight n think w/an open mind..whch obviously ur not doing..u hv a biased opinion n it cannot b debatable... 8/1/2004 11:45 PM For a second there i thought Lahoris were bright, open minded people... i guess Ms. Aasiya proved that wrong. Lets see now... Bhutto was a 'liberal' who believed in 'democracy'. And democracy means the opinion of each and every individual should be heard, if I am correct... well if i'm being asked to quit for raising my opinion, then I guess 'democracy' isn't what this community is following. Shujaat hmmm... quite a lot of double standards for a liberal-minded, democracy-loving Bhutto fanatic. But I thank you, from the depths of my heart, for proving my point. Someone wisely said (too bad it wasn't me)... "Democracy is a luxury that the people of Pakistan can't afford..." and you just reaffirmed that belief. 8/2/2004 1:51 PM "Democracy"...??? wht wud u know of democracy mr...??..ur not being asked 2 quit 4 raising ur precious opinion..Traditionally the purpose of democracy is to prevent tyranny (the accumulation of too much authority in the hands of one or a few). That is, democracy is not necessarily intended to give us "good" government, but to put some limits to the abuse of power, and to ensure that any bad government can be deposed and replaced peacefully. Nonetheless, many people think that there is no system that can ideally order society and that democracy is not morally ideal. "democracy" refers to a government chosen by the people, whether it be direct or representative.and let me add 2 ur reminder tht mr bhutto was uninimously elected bythe people of pakistan...n he proved 2 b a gr8 leader not just 2 the people of our country but was tremendously appreciated all over the world...Zia being the army solider had no damn right 2 overthrow him or gv him an unfair trial..he was being begged by several heads of states to gv him a fair trial or pardon him..but Zia knew if he did nething of the sort..he wud b 1st 2 get slaughtered by the people so he chose to have him killed in jail n bury him in the darkest hour of the night...is tis wht u call democracy...??? is tis wht u call the viewpoint of the masses..is democracy tyranny of the majority armed forced soliders who hv solemnly sweared 2 protect

Shujaat

Aasiya

Aasiya

the frontiers of the country n not indulge in politics... interesting 8/20/2004 2:59 PM wow.... someone who starts a topic "hail zia-ul-haq" is talking about democracy....pardon me but i read somewhere in ur post a word called "double standards"...can u elaborate on it JAWWAD very interesting 8/20/2004 11:00 PM Actually those are 2 words... and if u care enough to read the context, u'll see why i used those 'two' words. Zia, to an extent, was the need of the hour... Dont be something that you are not... 'smart'. Careful kid, you'll hurt yourself. 8/21/2004 3:41 PM kya baat hai aap ki mr.s...must admire ur handling the situation..2 add 2 ur knowledge..let me dare 2 add in k Zia DEFINATELY NOT cud b remotely considered "to an extent, was the need of the hour" guy..he deliberately jumped in 2 gain his own interests..lets give the faujis some credit 4 defending our frontiers..u c thts their job..not looking 2 ways 2 grab power (esp democratically elected!!)n sit on it "till death do them apart"...mr.s.j..as far as "double standards" was concerned..mr.s...was directly hitting on my views abt quitting tis forum....well..now tht i hv it even w/him..so no worries..;)) Chill... Even..I dont agree! 8/21/2004 7:44 PM Well well well! I doubt that u r even with Shuj! But i must say..well done...i appreciate ure ability to respond to crappy rhetoric with sensible logic...way to go....btw..just kidding...i think..shujaat still leads the pack...he has been giving you guys nightmares all alone...how abt moving the discussion to the new topic..that i just set...so i am waiting to see Miss. A and Mr. S rivarly gettin renewed on the new forum...so come over guys..lets add some spice to the discussion! Heck no!!! 9/4/2004 8:21 AM I totally disagree zulfiqar ali bhutto did not get what he deserved! zia was a murder!!!!!!!!!!!

Shujaat

Aasiya

Basit

Anza 9/5/2004 9:19 AM your sudden burst of luv for bhutto is all but justified. Shujaat

9/7/2004 2:04 AM Was someone singing paeans for Zia? The maggot infested, two-faced, lacquered hair lackey is cheifly responsible for the law and order(or lack thereof) situation of Karachi. Had it not been his stupidity to (tacitly) stand up against the Russians, by supporting the Afghan Mujhaideens, Karachi would have been spared the Klashinkov culture and the thriving poppy/opium/marijuana trade. A very interesting thing Babar said about the Afghans in Tuzke-Babari, "the Afghans are a strangely stupid race. neither can they manfully support a war, nor can they live like men in peace." Zia, financed by Saudi petrodollars, American weapons and strategic support, and recruits from all over the Islamic world, thanks to zia's instituionalized terrorist recruiting system, getting us embroiled in war which was given a religious colour. Hussain Some idiot pointed out that Zia's despotic regime was the need of hte hour. You fucking wuss, imposing Shariah in a country with a sizeable non-muslim minority and then moving on to exterminate it is hte need of the hour? I dont care about the fucking chooras who had to bear the brunt of his chootyapa. But when someone says that Zia did something because it was the need of the hour, it pisses me off. Do not be an apologist for your inanity. Then, my friend, the whole transferrence of weapon and money to Jehadis was a shady affair, half hte money siphoned off by smart-ass generals, who later on made names for themselves in hte list of richest generals alongisde south american dictators. Cool, innit. The list of his maachudais is limitless; i'm sure Zulfi bhai will be able to match him on a few things too.

But Zia Ul Haq was what his father was - a bastard. 9/11/2004 12:42 AM I guess only a bastard can tell a bastard apart. Shujaat (I usually dont reply in such a tone... but this was called for) Peace! Shame 9/12/2004 11:49 AM Well well well...I didnt know that I would have to jump in to teach some manners to u supposedly educated ppl! A good discussion is one where you share ideas...ppl might disagree with what u say..but what do u do then...start getting personal...use abusive tone...huh? well..mr. hussain whoever u r...wherever u come from..ure message tone was highly uncalled for..even if u r really close to Bhutto family and have a great hatred for Zia..what were you really trying to prove with all your abusive language..using words that u have used...dont make anyone sound cool... And shujaat...come on! u have been part of this forum for too long to stoop to this level..you have always replied gracefully and made this forum an interesting one...if someone stoops low in the discussion..does not mean that u have to follow him to that level or in fact to an even lower level! I hope this message is not taken in a personal way...all i wanted to say was that..lets discuss ideas...in a better and constructive way! 9/25/2004 4:09 AM It was a great honour to go through all the posts from both the sides trying to prove whose better. Im not die hard fan of either Zia or Bhutto. But if somebody asks me to pick between the two and i have no other option ill chose Bhutto, for few reasons . 1) Bhutto got elected from the people where as Zia never had guts to go out and ask for his mandate instead he held that hilarious refrendum saying in a way if ur muslim then im ur President ... lolz 2) On political front people take pride in associating themselves with Bhutto as compared to Zia-il-Haq .NS was the only major Zias idealogy supporter but not that long ago he apologized for being " son of zia" . PPP got more than 10 million votes even though Benazir was out of country . Does any political party exist in the name of Zia ? ( his son joined PML ( Pervez Musharraf leauge )) few months back . Alost 3) Both Bhutto and Zia made mistakes , but the mistakes of Zia had deep and long lasting impact on Pakistan. The drug culture, ethenic divisions within society , Islamic fanaticism are all gifts of Zias era. Bhutto worst act was Nationalization , it ruined many industrial areas but now our current econmoic situation is bad due to many other reasons . Nationalization isnt the only dominant reason . 4) Both of them exploited the people . Bhutto slogan was " roti , kapra , makan " . On the other hand zia exploited ppl. in the name of Islam . He used islam to strengthen his control over power. Manipulating religion is worst form of exploitation that a leader can do . 5)Its Zia who made Bhutto to wat hes now , A vote bank for Peoples Party long after his death. Had he not killed bhutto , bhutto would have died his own political death . My verdict 9/25/2004 8:21 PM I agree! After months of confrontation, and fighting our hearts out, I think your analysis sums it all up. I know I started out from the other side, but it all makes sense now. Well mR. A, your post was definitely well thought out and I admit I agree to your 5 points. (gotta be a first for me!:P) Shujaat So "Hail Bhutto; Zia got what he deserved!" Well i wudnt say that:p They all did something good for the country, and we shud remember them for that. Its about time we all became part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. And wrangling over the past is not the way to go... 9/26/2004 2:37 AM Thats the spirit Shujjat (Y) , at times debate did get out of control but this not our fault. We dont have many forums where we can talk about these issues.W hen we read an opponents view , we think of him as an alien and try to bring him down at any cost to prove our point.

Basit

Alost

Putting our most heated debate back in spotlight 11/2/2004 9:21 PM Since we are nearing the magic figure of 100..Just thought about putting our most heated discussion back in the spotlight...so that the new members could see what we all have been discussing so far.. Keep up the good work guys! Basit Basit100 Up Guys! 11/3/2004 1:21 PM Well done!! We have reached the magic figure! Basit INDEED HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED!!!! 11/3/2004 11:58 PM INDEED BHUTTO GOT WHAT HE DESERVED!!! Few get the chance to die for their country and be remembered as SHAHEEDS Atleast he had the GUTS to stand for what he believed in---- A TRUE EGALITARIAN SOCIETY,.,,,, Unfortunately his vision threatened the INDUSTRIALISTS and CAPITALISTS of this country.... Ibrahim wht hv ZIA's gifts to the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN been.... NARCOTICS KLASHNKOV SECTARIANISM HUDOOD ORDINANCE my advice to you would be to go back to primary and read history!!!!! now now...dont fight! 11/4/2004 8:03 AM we all know Shujaat is a batty boy who liked to take Zia`s in his bum. Hye...bumhole..go be Ijaz-ul-haq (dumbasses) boyfriend. Shit....i feel sorry for u Ali gul

now now...dont fight! 11/4/2004 8:03 AM we all know Shujaat is a batty boy who liked to take Zia`s in his bum. Hye...bumhole..go be Ijaz-ul-haq (dumbasses) boyfriend. Shit....i feel sorry for u...u pathetic looser.

Ali gul he occasional insect 11/4/2004 9:43 AM alking about f**ked up people... wow! Ali gul has the guts to put up a pic in his 'blow job pose'. robably taking care of Zardari, cuz u cant seduce a dead guy! l be honest with you Gul, …I hate it when insects like you creep up, use all three of their brain ells and post a lousy comment like that. I know its inherent and your system functions that way, ut maybe u can find something more productive. I wont give a damn if ur homo, ansvestite...or some wannabe drag queen. You can go hump farm chickens and i'll care less. ut when it comes to intellectual discussions, maybe u shudn't think so hard. You will probably nd up hurting urself. verybody has a right to their opinion, but that was provocative. 11/28/2004 6:29 AM shujjat...............ru a bengali? 11/28/2004 6:49 AM god's justice is never denied,yes bhutto got wht he deseved ,he has bin immortalixed forever,his legand still remains,the land of sindh still whispers his saindhood,his name will

Shujaat

always echo with the history of our land...........yes,he still lives on.as for zia he was even denied the right of dying a peaceful death,his remains were laminated with that of the infidels,it says in the quran"beware of gods wrath,he if wants,can inflict vengeance upon us in this world too"n yes this is exactly wht happened fuk zia ul haq an shujaat.. 11/28/2004 11:38 AM guyz say wat ever to him...he wont changed hiz screwd mind....leave em alone....let the poor pussy be... Umar bunch of morons! 11/29/2004 6:18 PM Do I look Bengali ??? If any of you morons took the time to read the entire discussion, you would have known that I 'accepted' some of Bhuttos achievements. He did somethings for the country that no one can deny. Even general Musharraf accepts Bhutto as one of the major benefactors of our country. ...as for Umar. You can go fuck 'yourself' inside out. And while you are at it... take care of that pathetic smiley pic of yours. You look like a stripper who lost her customer! 11/30/2004 9:22 AM I'm pro Bhutto...but everyone has a right to an opinion...And if you really respect your own opinion then defend it logically instead of goin to the last n the most pathetic resort of inflicting personal insults on each other. I think a great leader deserves a better defense than THAT. 11/30/2004 9:29 AM POor,poor shujjat!!look bengali?ahm sure its now that ur bengali genes have finally surfaced,so,tell me were u actually a low-paid male stripper back in the days??huh!tsk tsk,no wonder ur all sour faced now!!!pooooooh 11/30/2004 9:29 AM POor,poor shujjat!!look bengali?ahm sure its now that ur bengali genes have finally surfaced,so,tell me were u actually a low-paid male stripper back in the days??huh!tsk tsk,no wonder ur all sour faced now!!!pooooooh 11/30/2004 11:07 AM Whoa lady! Dont get me started now. Firstly, for someone who cant even spell my name right, even on her thrid attempt, you sure have an attitude. Bodacious!...yet suicidal. Lets start with the 'bengali genes'. Apart from the fact that if i'm remotely near that ethnicity, then lady ur a direct cousin of A.R Rahman. What really bugs me is your patronizing attitude towards that community. No wonder the country broke in half, all cuz of self-centerd, self-glorifying ppl like u. And ofcourse ppl like you hold bhutto as their leader. No surprises there... Shujaat And finally we have the stripper crack!... frankly you could be a little more original. Maybe next time u cud rub the remaining two neurons in your brain together, and come up with something...more interesting? I agree with Madiha, everyone has a right to their opinion... So next time Mariam, lets battle with facts rather than insults, cuz u know now who wins on this frontier :p Peace!

Shujaat

interestin' 12/8/2004 5:44 AM the discussion has been really kewl except for some hiccups (wont mention names to avoid more hiccups ) Actually Shujaat ( plz dnt mind if the spellin ain't correct ... its a proper noun ) the reason why poeple start with such a tone (thats my opinion) is the topic itself. Nobody would particiapte in a forum he duzn't like (or maybe have misconceptions about) ... so naturally there can be only two people who would join this forum. F|zZz 1. Someone who knows who ZAB was , his legacy , his charisma ... all in all ... his life 2. Someone who know no !&$#@% (no puns intended) about the forum and is just here to insult Ok. Now most of the people who have joined this specific forum belong to category 1 and a very few belong to category 2. Now, I have been reading a lot on ZAB here (including ur

posts) and i guess i wouldn't put you on the second category either (ur not in the first na???). What I think (the first impression) is when people (category 1) read this topic ... they see you ... and they see your topic ... and the first thing that comes into their mind is ... yeah u guessed it rite ... that ur from category 2. So i guess therez where people catch on a li'l fire (which i also did) and post comments with language not suitable on such discussion forums. As far as you accepting the fact that there were some rights in ZAB , my dear , you have your opinion and I do respect them. But once you have accepted something (for eg. the 5 points) then i guess you should stick to it, which is actually NOT portrayed by your last post. So I guess, lets cut the crap (AGAIN, no puns intended) and just think about how can we work on ZAB's legacy and make a difference in someone's life. If you think that there are "some" points right about ZAB , then lets talk about how we can actually put them into action ! Adios ~ BASIT BASIT 12/8/2004 5:47 AM so far i agree with u.no doubt that bhutto was n is a great leader coz for me he never died.he was the best leader in the history of pakistan.bot am sorry if u support ppp of today then my friend u need to sort out ur part first.the part dosnet honours the dreams of bhutto.bhutto however did sum things which wrent soo good .n for tjose reasons i hate the guy.bot as a leader of pakistan i have never seen a person like him..... Did I say Dat ?? :P 12/8/2004 5:58 AM Hey Basit I guess I didn't say dat i liked the present PPP platform (now thats lots of Ps ) I would reserve my comments on the present platform because this topic ain't nuffin 2 do wid it. Scrap On Dude :) Adios ~ Afsoas.. 12/8/2004 11:40 AM i swear man its Sad to see wat Mr.Shujaat is saying about a leader...an extra ordinary leader.. wich our country got bby accident as a gift from GOd..! Zulfiar ALi bhutto was I'D say a leader greater than Quid-e-Azam.. his bravery can be seen from the confrence in wich.. he insulted the ameican foriegn minister on wen the Foriegn minister said something about kashmir tht was in favour of India rather than pakistan... .. ZIA was a DOG.. an american DOG>. i know . this forum says sumthing about clean language.. but i cant control myself.. HE was sold to americans.. ... Bhutto was a born leader.. MAn u wudnt be sayin this .. agar.. u wud have ever heard one of his speeches..! !! ! AFSOAs hota hai.. on the luck of this country.. .. i mean cant u seee man.... BHUTTO was gathering all the MUSLIM COUNTries.. togather at the Islamic summit.. he was trying to make a Power tht wudve been composed of all the Mulsim countriess... . . . shame on Zia.. I WUD SAY THT ZIA IS THE ONE HU GOT THE DEATH HE DESERvED... he died a DOGS death.. ... ...... . and fer ur information... if u think Zia is in his grave right now at faisal mosque..?? then ur wrong.. thts his glasses's grave... hes resting under the Satluj river...... not a ssingle parrt of his body was recovred.. as far as my vision can see.. . . i think the grave duznt even has his glassses in itt.... Shujaat... 12/8/2004 11:48 AM oh yea.. and fer the storry part... im not sayin ke i know everything but.. as far as can say.. i think ur the one hu duznt knw the whole story.....no offense though to wali 12/8/2004 12:19 PM well i saw ur scrap.i feel sorry for u mate as u compare bhutto with mohmmad ali jinnah.mon u cant compare both.bhutto wudent be able to do anything agar jinnah na PAKISTAN na banaya hota .so mate u cant compare both of em.they both were great leaders in there own respect. plz dont mind that .i respect bhutto as a leader . i belive me i admire his work. bot wot u r talking is totally wrong Yaar Go n watch+hear his speeches 12/8/2004 12:41 PM Please

F|zZz

Fahad

Basit

A little Reminder 12/8/2004 2:14 PM Some very interesting posts...and some equalling apalling....Its a shame to see some of you educated fellows stooping to the level of personal insults...Come on guys..we can do better than that..We should have patience to listen to others opinions...we should try to convince them through our logical reasoning and facts...if they still dont agree...let them disagree..but we should not just stoop to personal insults... Whats a difference between an educated person and illiterate if the literate cant show patience and tolerance...That is the problem we as a people..as a society are facing today...we just cant tolerate others...thats the very root of all the problems...family disputes..stupid quarels ..and all the more..the sectarian violence...lets learn to show patience towards others...If some Mr. XYZ (shujaat in this case) is not a Bhutto fan...what should we do? murder him, molest him or crucify him? Is that the Bhutto legacy we are cherishing...lets remind and convince him with reasoning...and if he is still bent upon disagreeing..let him do that..but trust me on one thing..personal insults would only distant him from reality..only patience and reasoning will bear fruit..so lets all act with some wisdom here... to basit 12/8/2004 2:17 PM well mate . i agree with u .bot i hope u agree with me that comapring two great leaders aint good.they both worked for pakistan .one in trying to make pakistan n the other trying to make it a better place.n a country which has it own name in teh world.so its insane to compare themboth .ka whos bettea aur who did a great job..... i hope u agree with me interesting? ...definitely 12/10/2004 10:42 PM I guess you guyz have done ur homework... specially Faizan! Finally a few educated pieces of posts...(appreciate ur effort ppl!) Yeah i admit, i've been foolin around. Its just that whenever I come across a rash, moronic, sentimental post created on an impulse; I have to channel some steam out... thus the last comment on Bhutto. As for Wali, thanx for the insight on Zia and his burial ground. I shall contact the caretaker for an immediate investigation...:p On a serious note, its unfortunate all the way around, Bhutto or Zia, the Pakistani ppl suffered. Whether it be political instability, the loss of a visionary or a mighty general, who prevailed over a super power (ooh, striked a nerve back there) However, i'd have to agree with Waleed. We should leave Quaid (jinnah) out of this discussion. BTW... why do u ppl despise Zia so much? jus wondering... Peace~!

Shujaat

absorb the wisdom... 12/11/2004 1:11 PM It was really interesting reading this discussion. It got funny when the insults got going (which shujaat won in my opinion ;) ). None the less, I’ve been in various discussions with my friends, political groups and others about this specific topic. I’ve seen one very distinctive thing in all of them. We as a nation get very emotional and aggressive about issues we should be realistic about; it’s something we never look into. Humans commit errors, it’s in their nature. What we do wrong is symbolize people with that mistake and erase all their good deeds. That’s were our ignorance shows. We as a nation have struggled with leaders, and in a little span of 50 years of nation building we have found loads of time degrading leaders who committed their lives struggling for us. It’s a shame that we indulge in degrading any of our leaders in any sense and find our self following none of them. I guess we can all praise Zia or Bhutto all our lives but I know there will not be many participating in this discussion who will struggle as they did. That’s what we’re good at; Zia was good no Bhutto was good no they both were bad. I think we need to realize that if Zia stood for something right we need to follow that, if Bhutto stood for something right as a leader we need to follow that. Comparing both and finding who was wrong at what stage or wholly is something we don’t want. A leader is neither better nor worse than the situation and environment he is given. It’s his role that matters, if he left some wisdom for you, follow it. Peace

Waleed

12/12/2004 5:13 AM i agree with waleed he is rite

Jazz Jazzy Jazz zulfi bhutto of pakistan 12/12/2004 10:07 PM my message to all of you is that i am not get shocked when i heared the decision of hanging bhutto because in pakistan there is decisioning power in the hand of pakistani government all decisions are made in america and if anyone try to make pakistan and islamic countries progress america sweep that person pout of his way u can see mushaf,bhutto,omerasghar khanand many many more :) 12/13/2004 11:44 PM Thanx Shujaat, Nice to hear some good comments. Wali, you sure are right, we shouldn't be comparing Quaid-e-Azam wid ZAB ... both had different philosophies and personalities;where Jinnah Sb. had the dream of building a country for the muslims (that wuz Allama Iqbal's dream originally but Jinnah Sb. made it a reality), ZAB had a vision for creating harmony amongst muslim countries so that a solid force can be created which can reckon foreign diplomatic attacks (and others) on muslim countries. Unfortunately, the west sensed it and thats why we can see this topic on Orkut! ZAB's legacy remains ... followers remain ... its just that the followers didnt/don't practice what ZAB preached (an opinion ladies and gentleman, no need to get harsh on this fact!) Adios` zia got what he deserved 12/14/2004 7:44 AM zia the one eyed lil troll got what he deserved.

Jawad

F|zZz

Billy Law 12/18/2004 3:35 AM Z.A Bhutto did for Pakistan which none had ever dared to do.n he is the gr8 leader in true sens who wanted to do alot for this country but unfortuntly at last what he has got hmmm.Abt zia i would say he was a person who deserve this @shujaat:mr i think now basits group dont need U so if u wana leave u can(sorry dont mind but ) Main Bhutto Hoon 12/20/2004 10:48 PM Halaat ka dhaara badley ga her gher se BHUTTO nikley ga her shakhs kahega ye badh ker main Bhutto hoon,Main BHUTTO hoon 12/20/2004 10:49 PM Pakistan got one leader with deep insight, great courage, intelligence and wat not, he had got wat a man can only thiink n' desire for......but this PAKISTAN lost Him.....so sad :S

S@n@m

Abbas

Abbas ohh 12/21/2004 6:28 AM yes actually there is a very very misconception abt. bhutto and zia there are some pplz who make ditator zia a hero and some make the common(with a lot of qualities) man bhutoo, god.. and there are some pplz around us (shaujaat) who are grown by reading GHQ writtn history.. pplz like shujaat commets is not amazing for me.. i know mny pplz who said bullshit abt. Mr. bhutto sahib.. altough ignoring fact tht he is from feudal system.. but when land reforms is enforced in pakistan.. he is the first one to gave up their lands.. he is the one who make the greatest history mistake tht came back these 90 thousands dogs to that country where they Mohammad again conspirte with the democracy and again enter in governmet with theif gates.. again they do the same.. the zia ul haq the greatest mujahid of the country who made their rule and accounts in soviet war by buying land of pakistan .. and known to be a "mujahin-e-azam of world".. i m not amazed if some pplz around there declre dicttor zia a prophet.. actually i haave many words to say but i know pplz didnt hear any one of theses.. coz they dont want to

Abbas

listen.. mr. basit nd others and me are fools and stupids in this society.. this society is nothing but a group of sheeps they are unite because they are led by our mafia (army) with a stick in their hand.. well, 12/21/2004 11:16 PM if i become the president of apkistan ever..what my first order would b to demolish the socalled tomb of Zia outside Faisal Mosque,,,,i simply hate that person.....he is the one jiski waaja se aaj saari pakistani qaum suffer ker rahi hai....he was the real Black SHEEP

GUTS man! 12/24/2004 2:59 PM Shujaat...i donno if ya Che Shujaat or not. U got GUTS man!...afta every TOM n HARRY screwed u in this cmmttee...u still up for arguments ...thass HARD!...respect man! Mushee Demolish the curse of making this country a joke. 12/27/2004 2:33 AM I wish each one of you gets what his ambition is. I wish every one of you gets a chance to become the president or the prime minister of this country. The first thing one should do is dig out each individual who betrayed his oath and hang him dead or alive. Find out all who took refuge behind the doctrine of necessity and let them have an exemplary punishment. Inshah Allah. Very Well Said ... 12/27/2004 5:06 AM Very well said Syed Sahab. There were days when people used to ask Bhutto Sb. for every thing they wished for ... and then there were days when they left Bhutto Sb. alone in his battle; hiding behind the so-called beurocratic shield provided by the then military rulers. He (Bhutto Sb.) was asked that if he would ask for Govt.'s plea for forgiveness, he would live a longer life ... that meant he would be convicting himself in a case where he was never ever involved ... he refused ... he simply refused ... Geedar ki so saal ki zindagi say Shair ki aik din Zindagi behter ... F|zZz Apart from this, I would just like to mention one thing here. Lets not talk about demolishing Zia's Tomb just because of the fact that he hanged Bhutto (everyone wud wish dat, but lets be sensible). Think about it guyz, Bhutto Sb got his justice through a man-made machine ... an aeroplane. Lets not be rash here ... Someone Up there knows everything ... he gives justice to everyone ... chahay woh uski zindagi main ho ya Qabr main ... I would like all of you to please be participative by talking about how can we carry on his legacy and work towards Bhutto Sb.'s dream. 12/28/2004 3:24 AM very well said by Syed sahab and Faizan. but listen Faizaan, to teach others a lesson, the persons who betrayed should b taught a lesson, i've got an xample of i think Europe. about 300 yrs back of the court's decision, a General had unlawafully imposed martial law, it was decided by the court after 300 yrs of his deed that to hang him (since he was not alive, his dead body was hanged). These things are juss to teach others lessons. Abbas ofcourse! we should try more to keep up Bhutto's dreams, his thinkings, his work.... and try our best for our beloved homeland Pakistan. Haalaat ka dhaaraa badlayga, Her gher se Bhutto niklayga, Her shakhs kahayga ye badh ker, Main Bhutto hoon,Main Bhutto hoon. Agreed ... but to some extent 12/28/2004 5:29 AM Abbas, agreed but to some extent. I think people who betrayed Bhutto Sb. and are still alive living peacefully under the UNdemocratic shades should be put to justice. I guess Zia got what he was destined for ; i know people still take it as a BIG conspiracy against Bhutto Sb. but hanging a dead guy would not bring him back. What can bring him back is his pilosophy ... the legacy he left with us ... Bhutto Sb. has a special corner in the hearts of the people who admired him ... Lets make that corner , a permanent place for Bhutto Sb. to reside

Syed

F|zZz

hi abbas 12/28/2004 9:22 AM abbas i like ur shairs.. abbas actually this shair's mening came out to be true.. i saw asghar khan inteview 2 weeks ago, he used some sensible words to bhutto, the slogen "roti, kapra, makan is used by many of political parties. and now general faiz ali chushti .. the bastard who play a major role in bhutto's death. said in one of hius interview that my hand's are clean in bhutto's death sin.. general hameed gul, ishaq khan, asghar kahn and many leaders who are against bhutto at that time now appreciating bhutto... har ghar se bhutto nikal gaya har ghar se kafan aab nikle ga aab waqt hai unki gardan urane ka Mohammad jo kahta tha ke bhutto zalim hai. tum aik mazar ki baat kiya karte hoo. aab waqt hai us kaabe ko daha'ne ka.. jo khara hai bhutto ki nafrat main.. i agree with your opinion about demolishing Zia's tomb, thats the sign-e-kufr in our society.. 12/28/2004 10:32 AM What is the use of demolishing somebody's tomb?Instead of wasting our time on destructive activities,we should spend our time on some sort of constructive activities.Willfully, demolishing or disfiguring somebody's grave or deadbody is forbidden in Islam. If we talk Mujji about demolishing somebody's grave than what is the difference between us and Hinda? come on mijji 12/28/2004 1:44 PM ohh mijji agin islam.. that man used islam for 11 years and now u r here to teach us islam again.. ohh my God.. my friend i dont know islam much, because i m a humanist but i know one thing if peoples did wrong with nation then its a responsiblity of nation that to hang those.. and if they were dead then crush and burnt their bones from the graves..i hve only one say "true revolution throw dead bodies of holy peoples into the street".. Mohammad and my dear it is the matter of that person who looted countries for year and translate islam aaccording to his way. 12/28/2004 2:54 PM I am not able to fathom the use of such an activity. Every Head of the State or Head of the Government made mistakes while he/she was at the helm but what will be the objective of such an activity? And my dear friend, even religious humanism does not allow the kind of activity that you are supporting. Instead of talking about dead bodies, can't we think of a way Mujji in which we can promote Bhutto's Ideology. I believe that will be more fruitful and effective. @Mujji 12/28/2004 10:00 PM ofcourse! promoting his thoughts is much more effective but listen Each Head of the state here made mistakes but what Zia did was not mistake it was BLUNDER rather much much more than that coz u know persons like BHUTTO are not born again and again and he man was about to change the fate of the country but he was crushed by that US-Fed Zia....

Abbas

agreed 12/29/2004 2:37 AM totally agreed with abbas .. but abbas its not the matter of one blck sheep, its the matter of whole of the generals in GHQ,, REMEMBER dictator zia is only one men and whole of the army support him against bhutto.. so if i become PM one day i will make u the minister in my cabinet and command u to destroy not only zia's tomb but also GHQ in rawalpindi.. these are Mohammad some cowards who always conspirate gainst their own peoples.. and conqured n victorize civil institutions in pakistan.. 12/30/2004 3:03 AM yes! but woh kehtay hain na! "Chadtay Sooraj ko slaam". to yehi kertay hain ye saaray Army walay bhi, , if u see now, ager Musharraf had failed in his operation to except a few Generals, all would have been with ZIa-Ud-Din but now since ha succeeded then all were with Musharraf....yes! they all need Punishments and they should be punished but Zia being the leader is dealt with seriously. Abbas aur jahaan tak cabinet ka problem hai to thanx! 4 that but u know i've already finalised my cabinet.its somethinng very wonderful, but i've really done it. 12/30/2004 8:41 PM Yaar that is the problem whenever anybody comes into power they just keep on maligning and disrupting other people's image and work instead of starting something fruitful and

Mujji

creative.Zia spent his whole life in libeling against Bhutto Sahab. Nawaz and BB did the same for eachother. BB started the coastal highway but Sharif Sahab stopped it abruptly although it was just about to be completed instead he started the Motorways, so, if you people come into power we can only expect revenge and destruction of what was accomplished by others. 1/1/2005 3:27 AM YES! u r rite Mujji, it is really the problem, the politicinas here think more abt themselves than about the country. what can be done! mujji 1/3/2005 1:45 AM welll.. i gotta say.. wat u just said ... seems to be the bitter reality . . i mean i totally agree with this.. none of these people hu came into power focused on building and leading their country towards prosperity. .(excluding Bhutto sahab) ... instead they were too busy in tackling with their own personal quarrels.. VERY WELL SAID MUJJI i agree 1/4/2005 11:21 PM i agree .... hundred percent . u r talking xactly rite.

Abbas

Abbas Happy Birthday 1/6/2005 4:26 AM Happy Birthday Z.A.Bhutto :) Abbas ya rite 1/6/2005 10:28 PM Mr Bhutto got wat he deserved.......and that is eternity he will always live in the heart of the people of pakistan and Mr Haq will alwys be cursed for bringing drug&klashancove cluture in pakistan. Mir 500 up! 2/4/2005 5:39 PM I think...with the 500 figure...its time to put our very first topic back in Spotlight..we had some really heated debates over the issue....So keep the dice rolling guys! Some Great Posts overall...but some equally disturbing ones as well..but thats part of the game! Emergency 2/4/2005 5:47 PM Guyz believe me I had recognized this person at the first meetu-up, He is completely PSYCHO...if there is any Psychology Community on Orkut, please at least get him enjoined there. Shujaat, have a nice hail with ZIa in the hell..Lolz...I know why you have put up this Discussion,,,,And Only I know that... SsarFarazZ Celebrating Kashmir day on 5th February and on the vary next day celebrating Hindu custom that is Bokata in Punjab,,,that is the sincerity these people have... Basit

2/5/2005 3:50 AM oh wait a goddamn minute! isnt that? nooo... it coudnt be... it is!! it's the obnoxious internet cam whore, sarfaraz! Now...now, the only reason ur Sindhi butt is still alive and prosperin is becoz of our beloved leader Gen Zia. Not did he only defeat the soviets, he was a visionary too; afghanistan was totally under our influence. But...anyway, guess thats a lil too much vision for someone as short-sighted as you. Wait a second 2/5/2005 1:54 PM Hey Shuj! Easy tiger....You are going way over the limits now! You might have an opinion about Sarfraz...that opinion might be absolutely right and it may be wrong as well :P ...but i think its highly unappropriate to use such words in our discussions...So please restrain! Yea... 2/5/2005 3:19 PM Tiger...Yea Right Basit.... A BENGALI TIGER....Lolz

Shujaat

Basit

SsarFarazZ

Yes... 2/5/2005 6:35 PM Yes...Mr Basit you should really keep an eye on every individual's post...Nice job...there a lot of messeges but you do gr8 Job...Braveo from Me....He'z impatient when he can't retaliate us physically or has now reply, he comez up wid his so-called words indescent ones....Well SsarFarazZ Bravo Again... No explitation 2/5/2005 6:35 PM No, i dont think its exploitation, it's people who are zealous enough, that actually might do something to fix things in pakistan. also i think we have a right to defend our culture and customs, whether they are imported or not, cuz they have become our identity Shiraz To Mr. Wise Sabre 2/23/2005 1:18 AM I am bringing this topic back into Limelight..jsut for our friend Wise Sabre who seemed to have made an anti-Bhutto Community. I surely don't mind that. He is entitled to his own opinion. But if there is something...he wants us to know..I think its better if he joins in a debate here... And if he goes through this particulat topic...he will find plenty of stuff about Bhutto's great qualities and his not-so great qualities..and for that matter his short-comings...So go through this discussion first..and then u r more than welcome to post your own opinion... @basit 2/23/2005 2:40 AM man u soo gud at thz wow

Basit

Sana Basit..... 2/23/2005 4:19 AM I'm desperately waiting 4 that man, I promise to you, I won't let you have complaints against me. SsarFarazZ 2/23/2005 10:41 AM ...i can just imagine basit sitting on the docks with his fishing rod and throwing in bait for an elusive Shujaat Farhan for the sake of a more even argument - im going to support shujaat if he decides to go for it 2/23/2005 1:25 PM You know what Farhan, u stole my words... the argument started when shujaat offered the bait the scenario is same again only this time its Basit. And ya when i read all the posts of this article...i think it is the most amusing argument around where shujaat has kept everyone on their toes singlehandedly... brother u have my support as welll... i support ur topic if u want to go ahead with it. And it is may b not just coz i want to stand out... i do have my personal reasons to do so... anyway one thing proved...no wait verified again.... it was so easy to get them all worked up....most of them had no reasoning just a bunch of abuses and insults...the few who had a valid argument...yes u r right at times..but ur argument was spoiled again and again by the passionate display that most others displayed.....we pakistanis are so passionate that we even forget what we are fighting for and what are the reasons behind it.... most of us just follow what is being given to us from our elders. Good job shujaat... though u mite b wrong and u mite be rite...one thing is for sure they both are dead and both died in rather distinct circumstances.

Usman

2/24/2005 1:17 AM About a while back, a motion was passed in this community, an ‘attempt’ to force me out. Funn now i'm being called back by 'popular demand'... after a bunch of hate-mails. There hasn’t been any worthy opponent as yet to challenge my resolve to persist, encounter an destroy, but hats off to Farhan and Usman. "But there is still hope in the race of men..." (LOTR It takes a guy from Yale and someone with near perfect SATs to figure out what i've been up to finally!;) True, I've been playin with emotions… of our excessively-sensitive, overly-sentimental and highly inflammable community. I assure you, the response is always worth the indulgence. Just spark a flare, and u'll get a downpour of scraps... never fails. Thank you guys! for not being the 'yes-men' of this group and for goin against the flow.

Shujaat

Remember..."Conquer your fear and I promise you..... u'll conquer death!" (sheeesh.... note to self: take it easy on those dvds from home!) the Bhutto dynasty 2/24/2005 1:18 AM So continuing my assault on the Bhutto dynasty, (by popular demand!) Lets keep 'the Saint' aside, for the time being, and focus on one of his most cherished 'gifts' to the nation… Benazir. Born in glory, this lady has held the titles.... "daughter of the east" and "the most powerful woman" at one time (Time magazine) The so-called oxford-Harvard educated princess got 'elected' twice to reign our sovereign lands. But the question is... do we care if she was educated in an ivy league? or was the best orator in her league? when all she did in her rule was plant trees around Marghalla hills... and pamper that Brad Pitt husband of hers and a couple of his prized poodles. Shujaat Given the opportunity, to mould this nation into one seamless prospering unit, on the socalled dreams of her dad.... i ask u'all, did she ever deliver??...(well actually she did...ummm... never mind). The people of this sacred land remained imporvished, poverty level sustained its staggering level, and we lost the most precious thing we had... 'hope'. Is it revenge she seeks for her fathers fate? or the mere seduction of the throne that still persists... Whatever the reason, I hope she remains banished from these lands, under her self-imposed (self-centered) exile. That is the only un-selfish thing she has ever done for us. ~Peace! You following Sarfraz's path! 2/24/2005 1:55 AM Hehe...I guess Sarfraz has had a lot of influence on u (Shujaat)...Remember him bringing Larkano issues in the Balochistan topic....What Benazir is..and what she have been doing is a separate topic of debate...So why don't you set a topic about Benazir and start a completely new debate on it...Lets keep the focus of this discussion to Zia and Bhutto only..I guess thats what the topic suggests...Doesn't it:?? Basit Well done Sarfraz...You already have one follower in Shujaat:P Cum on how much more posts to welcom.cum 2 da poin 2/24/2005 6:12 AM I've had enough! Really Zia Ul Haq a betrayl leader, who sold his consciousness to the West, for gaining leadership. Martyr Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, did only one mistake ever in his life, that of making Zia, Chief of Army Staff. As I already have stated that Martyr Bhutto had said that, those who would hang him, their bodies would not be accepted by Earth and Skies. I don't know, how people examined remains, to be belonging to Zia and buried him near Faisal Mosque (He's been there because of Afghans, for whom he was a Hero). Martyr Bhutto had a finest destiny that of receiving Martyrdom, some analysts say that even if He (Martyr Bhutto) whould have escaped murder attempt, on opponent leader, there were many other cases filed against him, that might have made him, visit Court occasionally all life. SsarFarazZ Martyr Bhutto is still alive in hearts of people, in Basit's heart, Miss Assiya's heart, and in my heart, and in everyone's heart, even those who know right and wrong, and those who outspokenly say that they don't like Martyr Bhutto, their heart speaks "Infect He was Hero." I watch community members growing since last week from 532 to 607 currently, isn't it all enough for proof. Even the small kids of Pakistan know that Zia was a wicked and cruel, remourseless leader of Pakistan, infect a stain on Pakistan, which cannot be washed even with Ariel Detergent. Where is Shujaat? 2/24/2005 7:18 AM sarfaraz, the bhutto fanatic where'v u been?! theres much to learn from bhutto...i mean good stuff. because we can use his good ideas, and learn from the mistakes of his bad ones. he was popular because of, more than anything, his oratal skills. a great opportunist. critics might suggest he was more a 'drama' than anything else. well.. whatever he was, he showed that it was possible -to some extent- to adopt policies to which the logic in them was not understandable to only a few. he appealed to the masses... all that said... umm... he did make many mistakes>>> S -Bhutto turned a blind eye to the native sindhi-mohajir troubles and it was Bhutto who revitalized leaders like G.M Syed... what followed? more trouble. what followed that? mqm. what followed that? even more trouble...altaf hussain.. ufff...too much trouble (1990's -Bhutto provoked the 'civil war' in balochistan (some charge), and even if HE didnt, i wonder why Gen Tikka Khan(the 'Butcher of Bengal', the guy in charge when all the dirt was done in East Pak.) was called upon to lead the army into the Balochistan province

-the FSF (now abolished) was a creation of Bhutto, and it was drawn from the darker side of society. it also conducted operations that should not really have happened in a democracy, under Bhutto. -J.A Rahim, Mubashir Hassan, Khurshid Hassan Meer, Mustafa Khar, Hanif Ramay were all leaders on the PPP, once Bhutto's friends. what happened to them? arrested, imprisoned, exiled. hmm why? too loud for his liking. (his desire for too much power is what killed him...) -bhutto's policies, later on, took away incentives for investment. businessmen began withdrawing their funds from the country, looking to invest inother markets. -it was Bhutto who asked Zia to declare martial law in Karachi, Hyderabad and Lahore where rioting was spiralling out of control because of discontent with Bhutto and the PPP Yes my boy you need back-up (Shujaat) 2/24/2005 9:59 AM .....I wonder what need you people, seek to be member of this community when you can't move a lil bit to proofs..well watever our work is to inculcate in your mind the proofs, if your Qanoon (Law) is Andha (Blind) Qanoon (Law, What can we do? Call me whatever you like. Well,I wonder if really Sindhi-Muhajir Conflict took place in Martyr Bhutto Tenure? What about Zia, did he try to settle disputes like; Kilashonkov-culture, drugs, SsarFarazZ secterian, as well as ethical violences? better created by Martyr Bhutto, according to your socalled knowledge 2/24/2005 12:17 PM well - Sarfraz I dont really think that one can blame Zia for the AK-47 culture - that was always going to be a spin-off of the proxy Afghan war. And you must admit that the Afghan war was brilliantly executed. I have the personal opinion that it was the Afghan war that really brought about the fall of the Soviet Union. Not only that he also managed to steal some of that American technology and get it over to China . 2ndly he had the mullah elements under his control - whereas BB was the one who was truly responsible of their spill-over in the rest of the country. tsk tsk... 2/24/2005 12:46 PM basit, basit, basit... the mighty group founder at a loss of words for Bhutto's own daughter. As if it wasn't bad enough that you couldn't defend his reckless daughter, you have to hide behind Sarfraz... sheeeshh. I mean how low can you get??... even for basit!:p Shujaat The reason why I found Benazir pertinent to Bhuttos recklessness, was that other than being his own flesh n blood, she boldly proclaims holding strong on her fathers so-called 'vision'. Fine, if you feel yellow on this frontier, we shall come back to your 'saint'. 2/25/2005 12:09 AM S thats where i agree with u completely.. Bhutto was a case of the phenomena that "power corrupts". The man certainly had the brains, the visions the watever... but later he just lost it.... the same thing which happens with every leader in pakistan... the lust of power engulfs them. Yes and this is also very true that watever to be said the Afghan war was pretty well executed... and we cannot just dismiss zia ul haq for doing nuthing... we did pay a heavy price for the afghan war.. who more than the citizens of karachi... but we can have satisfaction of one thing... watever the reason at least we supported our muslim brothers and at the day of judgement we can claim for that sacrifice! and that happened in Zia's regime.. so he remains responsible for that 2/25/2005 12:12 AM by the way thanks Shujaat.. and that reminds me .. y the hell are we still arguing on this.... proving shujaat's point more n more?

Farhan

Usman

Usman

Be Realistic Mr. Usman 2/25/2005 3:41 AM Mr. Usman, your gesture of talking hereafter and standing shoulder to shoulder with Afghans, and then holding head high-sprited at the end of the world, makes me shiver. Well, my dear, it is not only Afghans who are Muslims, why don't you go for Iraq, Chechnya and now to pre-hold war-scenario with Iran. Aren't they your brothers. Afghans have still bitter feelings toward Pakistan, even in many of interviews Afghan President Karzai has explicitly said that Pakistan is behind the every now and then attacks near it's border and acroos whole SsarFarazZ of Afghanistan. I hope that gesture was not enough to let you own furthur appreciations, Mr. Usman.

Martyr Bhutto was unlike rest of other politicians, so Please don't resemble Him with them, when you say, speak of thirst of power, let leaders have; the like climax. 2/25/2005 4:49 AM Sarfraz - the Afghan war was never about Jihad. It was about maintaining the integrity of Pakistan as an independant republic. If the Soviets had gotten total control of Afghanistan Pakistan would hardly have been a hurdle to overcome. Once the Red Army retreated, the Pakistani greater goal was to expand and maintain its influence in Afghanistan - so as to get what is called 'strategic depth' in case of a war with India. To this end Pakistani backed and armed forces under the united banner of 'Taliban' were supported - as opposed to the rest of the resistance movements which were also contending for power. That is the reason for Hamid Karzai's criticism and mistrust of Pakistan. Farhan It is no secret that Zia's dream was to form a union of states consisting of Pakistan/Afghanistan/Tajikistan and any other central asian contries that he could overcome and hence the reason of the plane crash. Had he succeeded, such a block, combined with the close ties with China would have been a very effective counter to the current uni-polar power centre. On a more personal note - Sarfraz I think you should stop referring to ol' Zulfi as if he were a diety. He was good leader, but he had his shortcomings as well - a lot of mud can be splashed on a leader like Churchill as well. 3/11/2005 9:47 PM One historically dark midnight the only ever elected prim minister of this unfortunate country was thrown out of the chair. The charges were: He sold out Kashmir in Shimla He made a constitution to suit him and helps him stay in power. He was not popular amongst the masses of this country. He conspired and rigged elections to remain in power. He murdered his political opponents. He made civil services subservient to his party He was delaying a settlement between PPP and PNA and trying to gain time He maintained files of foreign dignitaries and all the other politicians He blackmailed his party politicians very popular on their own to stay in party folds He nationalized the industry transport and education Above are some of the accusations against the sword of Ali, which one needs to be further elaborated. Both zia and Bhutto stand trial of history, all are free to side with their choice. It is an irony that zia’s own son is not willing to support all what zia stood for. Ijaz-Ul-Haq 3/12/2005 2:40 AM well Syed, its nice to hear he doesnt agree with everything. although i did see an interview last year when he was going on about how he still goes to these villages in pakistan where people go mad over their love for his father... yuk. ive heard this guy owns owns a pepsi or coca cola factory in pakistan. its annoying that this guy has been given a ministry, just because he happens to be the son of zia. he's obviously quite rich, and we all have a good idea why this is. he is not a bad public speaker to be honest, but its just so distasteful to be reminded of zia even today. 3/12/2005 11:44 PM All the intrigues and manipulations of the civil/military establishment have failed to break up the vote bank of ZAB. All the above false accusations have been proven wrong. Vote goes whether through sherpaous, jatoies, patriots, parliamentarians, ghnwa, mumtaz, etc. all is for Bhutto. Together they were a political force alone they are insignificant individuals. That is what the establishment likes to see in politics. Since 77 there have not been any fair and impartial elections. When ever there is a fair election with out intrigues Bhutto will come back in power. Fortunately or otherwise it is his daughter who has been chosen by the people, masses are never wrong. Both zia and Bhutto have got in history what they deserved. 3/13/2005 1:12 PM Though I think that bhutto is responsible for many of the problems Pakistan faces zia wasn’t any less of a bastard either 1. bhutto’s financial policies fuked up the countries financial state 2. bhutto was equally responsible for the separation of east Pakistan.. mujib ur rehman won the elections with an overwhelming majority. But bhutto warned yahya that if mujib was allowed to assume power then there would be serios problems. He is reported to have

Syed

S

Syed

Ihab

‘thanked god that Pakistan was saved’ when yahya decided to order the army to take control of east Pakistan.. if bhutto would have perhaps reached a compro with mujib the sitution may have never arised.. but he was too busy getting power for himself. 3. bhutto might have been democratically elected on his phony manifesto of ‘roti kapra and makan’ which he never delivered to the people…but after getting elected he ignored the democratic process and in the 1977 elections were so heavily in his favour despite the popularity of the opposition that many are sure it was RIGGED. 4. he was a sharabi (that’s a fact) and was busy building a casino in khi rather than paying attention to pressing issues 5. he carried out systematic victamization of political opponents through the FSF 6. and u guys call him a freaking shaheed ! a saint ! sheesh Zia on the other hand was a complete DICK TATOR and like all Pakistani leaders carried on the tradition of acquiring as much power for himself as humanly possible 1. he also completely ignored the democratic process 2. u think he prepared the afghan resistance against the soviets for the sake of Islam. Reality check…..the billions of dollars of aid and assistance that flew into pak due to the situation was shoved up his and his generals asses. Thereby allowing the afghans to encroach Pakistan and giving birth to radicalism. 3. hudood ordinance which was promulgated by zia to establish and Islamic order in the country is perhaps the most fuked up law ever made in pak history 3/13/2005 1:13 PM 1. 2. u think the explosion at ohjri ammunition dump was an accident then ur mistaken zia ‘s general were the ones who were responsible…no wonder when the prime misnister ordered an investigation, he was immediately sacked. Ihab So id conclude by saying that none of these two ‘leaders’ outdid the other in motherfuckery .theydeserved their respective deaths and may the burn in hell for eternity. 3/13/2005 2:03 PM Well...just a momentary turn of the coat - I dont think calling Bhutto a sharabi has any weightage in this argument. Thats a personality trait not a leadership flaw. Now back to pro-Zia: 1. & 3. : He had the mandate from the people of Pakistan to go ahead with Islamic law. That was what the people of Pakistan wanted - he had massive 99% approval (or maybe it was 97% - thats just a technicality). 2. & 4. : Afghans encroahed Pakistan and gave birth to radicalism?? Dude!! Come on!! The Taliban were totally a Pakistani organized group - the Pakistani establishment supported and in fact concieved the radicalism in this region of the world; reason: to kick soviet ass, to gain control of Afghanistan, to support the Kashmiri insurgency. As for the billion of dollars going in Zia's pocket theory - if we go by this then what do you suppose made the Soviets retreat? Ghulail-launched raakets?? Stinger-Wattay??? But I agree that all of the US weaponry and money did not go to Afghanistan - it went to the development and modernization of the Pakistani defence forces. This brings us nicely to the Ojhri camp explosion - I agree that was not an accident. It was done on purpose because that was where the Pakistanis were hiding a shipment of US weapons which was supposed to go to Afghanistan, a team of US inspectors was travelling from Islamabad to Rawalpindi for the sole purpose of checking that very depot. So yes - it had to be done, otherwise we were busted . Might I add that I was in Rawalpindi at that time - a bomb fell 20 feet from my home in the playground where we kids used to play. I remember climbing on the flush to see out of the toilet window into the playground - mega crater dude!! 3/14/2005 5:03 AM Bhutto was behind the breakup of pakistn---This phrase echoes every now and then---- There were several occasions where the establishment always hostile to Bhutto could prove it if it was true. At least two documents; the white paper (a number of books almost 1700 pages released at different occasions by Zia containing forged documents) and the Hamood ur Rahman Commission Report does not accuse Bhutto of the charge. Zia had to conspire with false charges and fictitious stories which were not political in nature to get rid of Bhutto. Idher

Farhan

Syed

hum udhar tum was a Jamat Jasarat lies and conspiracy. Yahya the following generals todate are guided by the lobby which works for some kind of a role for the army in Pakistan politics. Yahya imposed a binding condition on the elected representatives of Pakistan to prepare and agree on a constitution within 90 days of the commencement of the assembly, namely LFO. If the assembly was not able to give a constitution Yahya had his constitution authored by Justice Cornelius ready to be implemented which gave a presidential form of government run by him. Tufail of Jamat had seen it and was in favor and declared it to be Islamic. Mujeeb won on the basis of six points which were said to be authored by some bureaucrat (Hamood Report hints). Mujeeb’s manifesto was nothing but a recipe for separation. 3/14/2005 5:04 AM Not attending the assembly; Bhutto was very clear about that. He did stop his party members to attend the assembly session. He set preconditions for the session to start. He said that calling of the assembly was a trap of Yahya to prolong military rule. He wanted the 90 days condition imposed by LFO be removed and the assembly be allowed to work and deliberate on the agreement for the people of Pakistan to live together. If the 90 days condition stayed he wanted all the major political leaders to agree on all the important points of the future constitution. When ZAB gave the constitution in 71 he got together JUI, NAP, and PPP to agree on the draft and sign it before taking it to the assembly. What he confessed was that the mess created by the civil military establishment for about 25 years could not be cleared with in 90 days with LFO hanging on the heads of the parliamentarians. What Mujeeb wanted was separate currency, finance, foreign policy, trade, armed forces, banking system etc. Bhutto went to the extent of accepting 5 points of Mujeeb. IF MUJEEB EVER WAS A PAKISTNI HE SHOULD HAVE NAMED HIS COUNTRY PAKISTAN AND DEMANDED THE WESTERN PORTION ALSO. I supported Bhutto as his voter and support now as his admirer.

Syed

3/14/2005 5:05 AM I can recall the last days of united Pakistan there used to be Bengali students with us in college. Most of those were very active in politics from the National Students Federation platform. Not siding any party but taking note of the changing political conditions and issues effecting people in general and students in particular. I remember many of those leaving Karachi to go back to Sonar Bangla taking leave not to return again. This phenomenon was more apparent after the decade of reforms of Ayub. I remember some of those mentioned it in clear words that living together is impossible. Syed It is also alleged that Bhutto had destroyed some 40 papers which were against him in the Hamood report. Do you or any one else has those 40 pages? Several governments who came after Bhutto were hostile and tried to dig out what ever they could and failed. Many of those governments and care takers had only one purpose that is to malign him or his family. Mind you most of the important papers in the government custody bear Bhutto's signature or notes. Zia had to forge most of the documents whose copies he has published in the white papers. Only accusing him is not enough. 3/14/2005 5:26 AM The 70 manifesto of Pakistan Peoples Party comprised of all the popular demands of the day. And the party itself was a Grand National Alliance of the progressives. Bhashani deserted at the last moment. For the last 28 years bureaucrats and general are eating up the savings of this country in the form of nationalized units. At the last I know some one will bring the matter of Polish resolution at the United Nations: will some one let me have the contents of that resolution was it in favor of Pakistan were Soviet Union and Poland siding Pakistan or having pacts with India. I will refer to Shahi’s recent interview with Shahid Masood 3/14/2005 12:26 PM recently, i read that benazir had stated in a public interview that she herself had bought blue prints for nuclear installations from nortk korea....imagine an american president disclosing country secrets after he was no longer in power...perhaps she really is avenging her father's death on the cost of her own homeland

Syed

Ihab

S

SsarFarazZ

benazir 3/15/2005 1:14 AM its hard to see how she can drop any lower. mujji posted ealier how she joked about OBL hiding in pakistan. she also wanted musharraf to be attacked from outside. she used to fly to india hoping to convince our neighbours that musharraf or any army general shouldnt b trusted. recently she flew to US hoping to see condoleeza rice, but ms.rice wasnt interested. and yesterday benazir forced a meeting with british secretary of state, jack straw... who after the meeting reiterated his govt's strong relationship with Gen Musharraf's govt. she is the cheapest leader we couldve expected from zulfiqar's blood. this is her leadership, open for all to see. it makes me sick. lhmm.... 3/15/2005 2:54 AM cheapest leader...from Martyr Bhutto's blood, one appreciation from Basit doesn't give you authority to use your so-called words in such a way Mr. (what if I write your name as) "Mr. :S", You even don't match her in either way, apart from Gender :D. sarfaraz 3/15/2005 4:39 AM this hasnt got anything to do with basit. in my opinion, as im sure Farhan would like to agree, ure just acting like a SHEEP. thats because, as uve just demonstrated, benazir gets her support from idiots like urself, not because of her leadership qualities (which are very hard to find on display in the last 8 years) but because she is the daughter of Zulfi Bhutto. having referred to me as 'MR' (which is a word used to address a MAN), u went on to claim that benazir is actually a MAN. sarfaraz, ure always going on about eveyone here being educated and all that. so why then do u constantly revert to the cheap method of personal attacks (which make no sense), instead of putting together a structured explanation for ur point of view. if i was going to be like u, i wouldve posted stuff like benazir is a gushtee, etc. do u see my point? i dislike benazir not because she is the daughter of ZAB (from whom there is much to be learnt) but because she is cheap, and purely an opportunist -not a leader of the masses. if u think i am wrong, why dont u try convince me otherwise my brother... its better to learn from one another. 3/17/2005 8:01 AM U ppl have lsot it? Zia?..WTF r u thinkin? He is da reason y our country is so fucked up 2day!!! Who Created the MQM.....Zia....who made Altaf wat he is 2day?...Zia......Who fucked our country???? Zia....he was a fuckin TYRANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1000 Up! 5/6/2005 11:16 AM Right on...As we r 1000 up..I thought we should some of our most heated debates rolling again!

S

Furqan

Basit Shahadat qomoon ki zindagee hotee hay!! 5/7/2005 5:21 AM well that dirty son of a bitch zia ul haqq...was in fact na haqq.jo shaheed hota hay wo amar ho jata hay n jo zalim jhota hay wo neest o nabood hota hay... the history of islam is full of the examples of the right n wrong...like Imam Hussain (as) n Yazeed(laan allah).shahdat of our mola saved the relegion....what abt yazeed hez still a sign of failure!!! Hussain qtal hokay bhi zinda raha...aur yazeed zinda reh k bhi marr gaya!! same is here ....zia jeet k bhi haar gaya n bhutto marr k bhi jeet gaya!!! Ya Ali Madad 5/8/2005 3:36 AM this is the most bizzare thing i have ever heard. hail to zia-ul-haq...for startin the kalashenkauv culture...hail to zia for introducing herion....hail to zia for breeding extremism...hail to zia for mocking democracy....as for what he did to Bhutto...the entire civilized world curses him for that. What he did to Bhutto sahib was out of personal animosity and fear...Zia was a puppet of the West who murdered the greatest leader Pakistan has ever seen. History will never forgive him for this unpardonable crime..Zia will always be remembered as the murderer...nothin else...tell me one thing that Zia did that was right?...Zia's ghost still haunts the pakistani scoiety...Bhutto's charm still enchants masses...Jeay Bhutto

HAsHiR

5/9/2005 10:05 PM i really dont know what make you to write these kind of words regarding BHUTTO. but the only thing which i wanna add is that no body can be hailed on the basis of his name , for that

Robia

Rude^

purpose one have to prove his self and i think BHUTTO had already done that. JIYE BHUTTO hey! 5/11/2005 11:47 AM As'Salaam O Aleikum, well being new to join the comunity as i first had a glance over the comunity name got bit xcited to c over a layout..how ever never got stunned to c suchaa long and baseless disccusion regarding Shaheed Z.A Bhuto.Z.A bhuto ws the man whoss efforts still prevail here in the country the nation shld b 100 lives thankfull to him for his deeds for the country's betterment..!the few issues i got to know were reopened here..not goin into the details but wld say that He ws out n out a gentle man..who sacrificed his life instead there were 3 countries beggin to save him! Libya's aircraft stayed here even after his death for 3 days for a hope!..the entire family ws put into the miserable conditions..but truth prevails rest all decays..Z.A bhuto gave contitutional framwork that ws nt introduced in any military govt:, Atomic plant,islamic submit..nevertheless simla pact..but still the hatered is seen..for those i wld say a Allama Iqbal's couplet! dun xactly remeber the words but it goes like "Khuda us koom ki halat nai badalta ho na khayal jis ko apni halat k badalne ka"...freedon of speech and xpression made this conversation long..but i wdl suggest Shujaat to plz read outa book called "shuhaab-nama" by Qudrat-ul-ALLAH Shahab..and know the real inside storied of pakistani politix... zia ws a black sheep..and is not remembered now..but Shaheed Z.A.Bhuto's name is eternal!still u wld find the oceans of people luvin him admirin him at juss a call!...at last i wld say..a mother who brings up a child worths more than a mother who juss give birth to..! Quaid-e-azam is a man who acted like a mother who gave a birth to the country..and S.Z.A Bhuto..brought this infant country up..to his level best..but the enimies..did nt let him do so...thatz nobody else..but pakistani ARMY..! who has ever been an agent of other countries...in the 60 or more yrz history of independence u wld find Army ruling out the most and putin a great economic and social flaw..May Allah Bless Pak: jeeye bhuto: Fuck Off 5/14/2005 5:37 AM Shujaat basit might b goin' wid d flow but yes the flow which bhutto showed 2 the country the flow which was leading 2wards prosperity.nd ya he is right any1 who is leading u 2wards prosperity should b hanged in this country but the nation which doesn't respect its heroes ruins.God bless u 4 ur thoughts hey mr 5/17/2005 5:03 AM i think u have not studied pakistan studies it was f m ayub who first stated "join army and become the president of pakistan" then g yayha khan he sold the east pakistan and 90 000 soidiers ok pakistan then g zia whos era was the darkest he was soo in capable that in missile depot islamabad some problem occured and thousands of missiles just flew away and thousands were dead in that and now musarraf u r watching............. lissen 5/17/2005 4:15 AM Bhutto could make things much better is he went with surawardy to east to hold talks with mujib he was invited but bhutto kept his arrogant stance for his own political future

Nauman

Usman

Ammar Lissen ppl zIA was a joke 5/17/2005 4:18 AM ZIA was a joke so lets not get into was bhutto better or ZIA and look at the great things zulfi did and give him due credit for those action and like every human he had many flaws and made many mistake but in the history of pakistan his policys were amazing his internal state politcs were bad Ammar SARDAR MUMTAZ ALI KHAN BHUTTO 5/17/2005 4:48 PM join "SARDAR MUMTAZ ALI KHAN BHUTTO" thr cheif of our bhutto community Mohsin 5/19/2005 7:32 AM Huh. This community isn't for political discussion. It is not even for an objective discussion. It's just for Bhuttos fan. And I'm surprised there are any! Meenah

Bhutto was a genius. He could "charm people pantless". But he was no sincere leader. Plz stop being fooled by his memory and his family. 6/2/2005 11:29 PM HAIL HITLER AbooAlo0f 6/5/2005 1:16 AM Meenah Bhutto was a genius. He could "charm people pantless". But he was no sincere leader. Plz stop being fooled by his memory He was a genius no doubt. No sincere leader; hard to swallow. He had ample opportunity to get amnesty, go to Saudi Arabia and sped his remaining life playing golf with other exiled leaders he chose to walk to the gallows to defend his constitution. In return Zia only wanted no interference from ZAB in his way of politics. The maximum sacrifice an honorable man can offer is his own life. There are people still alive who were sent by Zia to Bhutto for a patchup. Ammar Bhutto could make things much better is he went with surawardy to east to hold talks with mujib he was invited but bhutto kept his arrogant stance for his own political future Syed The assembly of the 1970 was to be convened under the legal frame work order of Yahya Khan. Under the LFO assembly was required to deliver a workable constitution within a period of 90 days of its coming into session. Failing which Yahya had his own constitution to be implemented. This constitution was drafted by Justice Cornelius. It was approved by Tufail, Amir of Jamat e Islami. Mujeeb won elections on Six Points. Awami League’s demands were separate armed forces of east and west, separate central banks separate trade, separate currency, separate foreign policies, division of all the assets on the basis of population compensation to the Bengal for its grievances of the past 25 years and so on. Mujeeb was gracious enough to allow the provices of the west to work jointly if they so desired. Continued…………

6/5/2005 2:16 AM Continued………….. Mujeeb’s agenda was to solve the problems of Sonar Bangla (golden Bengal) alone he was least bothered about the west. I know it because a few of his volunteers and voters were my class fellows. Agenda of the armed forces in general and of Army in particular was to have a presidential form of government with provisions in the constitution for the army to take part in politics and rule the country for ever. Smaller leaders of the western provinces were hoping for a lesser Punjab domination under Mujeeb’s rule. Majority of the sane common people and the intelligentsia were of the view that Pakistan is made up of provinces hence only a federal parliamentary form of government with two sovereign houses is necessary for its survival. This I am sure it is valid even for today. Every one knew that 90 day binding on the assembly was the trap of the generals in power. The only sane solution was either to allow the assembly to deliberate without the 90 day condition or have a consensus on the matters before going to the assembly. Bhutto being a leader spoke it loud it was not his arrogance. When Bhutto gave the 73 constitution he got together all the major parties to agree on a draft constitution before going to the session and got it signed by all the political leaders. Young man Husain Shaheed Suharwardy was killed in Beirut in Ayub’s days if you are referring to him. There were rumors that Ayub killed him. Suharwardy too was a man of principles and against Army’s role in politics. Politics is not just gossip it is an agenda of the future of the country and matter of life and death for our coming generations. Please take it seriously. No Foul Language! 6/6/2005 3:45 PM I just deleted an obscene post...To put it in simple words..If u dont know the manners associated with a civilized debate u r more than welcome to quit this forum..The purpose is healthy debate..not showing off colorful vocabulary. If someone does not like ure Hero..try convincing him/her..if u cant...well then forget it...i cant let u force ure personal opinion on others... laterz-

Syed

Basit

Camran

jeay bhutto 6/14/2005 3:46 PM well everyone iz allowed to comment but none has the final comment. Bhutto was the greatest leader of south asia.He did very well in those post 71 war sitautions. The only thing which every poor n elite says here iz JEAY BHUTTO 6/16/2005 1:07 AM the fact that people (shujaat) are so blinded by their elitist point of view is a shame. you and your army controlled media blame him for being power hungry when i think the finger should point somewhere else.. you blame him for dividing pakistan when we all know that a nation is not divided in one day ... you blame him for destreoying our economy..that economy only benefitted your elitist class that supports caitalism and inequality...your elitist class is full of psuedo-intellectuals and murderers...your elitist class and present government is full of maligned no good crooks and they all deserve to rot in jail and yet you pick on the greatest leader this country has had...shujaati pity you for your ignorance... talk to the people of the country...talk to the poor..the majority..talk to people with character like george callaway and then come and criticise 7/8/2005 6:59 PM In the community United Nations on the Orkut on a thread entitled India & Kashmir issue some one pointed out that “because Bhutto, the Pakistan Premier after the war of 71, made a deal with india which stated that pakistan would not take the matter up to the united nations in exchange for Prisoners of war.” http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=4608&tid=12388804&pno=23 The above allegation was one of the major points of the PNA movement to over throw ZAB. I can recall the so called intellectuals and politicians of those days, some of them still alive, spreading lies on TV that Bhutto was a sold out on Kashmir issue. Thanks to the internet, now every one has access to these documents. The Simla agreement states following in its concluding paragraphs: “In order to initiate the process of the establishment of durable peace, both the Governments agree that:

Assad Zulfiqar

Syed 1. Indian and Pakistani forces shall be withdrawn to their side of the international border. 2. In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971, shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognised position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line. 3. The withdrawals shall commence upon entry into force of this agreement and shall be completed within a period of thirty days thereof. This agreement will be subject to ratification by both countries in accordance with their respective constitutional procedures, and will come into force with effect from the date on which the instruments of ratification are exchanged. 7/8/2005 7:00 PM Both Governments agree that their respective heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that in the meanwhile the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of durable peace and normalisation of relations, including the questions of repatriation of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of diplomatic relations.” Syed And the title of the agreement is Simla Agreement on Bilateral Relations between India and Pakistan signed by Prime Minister of India, Mrs. Indira Gandhi, and President of Pakistan, Mr. Z. A. Bhutto, in Simla on July 3, 1972. Thanks Syed Sahab 8/31/2005 2:15 AM That was indeed a very deep insight into "WHAT ACTAULLY HAPPENED". i liked this piece of information... BHUTTO...A GREAT MAN... 9/1/2005 11:36 AM WAT I CAN ONLY SAY IZ THT DA ONLY GREAT LEADER PAST IN PAKISTAN ....

Adeel

Zahra

@ SuckerZZZ 9/12/2005 5:59 AM Hey guyz wat da fukK u think ov urself haan? i guess Bhutto waz da only sincere leader of Pakistan..... U neva kno wid Bhutto once read abt him or luk at ur past den u'll cum ta kno wat great personality waz Z.A Bhutto.... Aur Zia got wat he deserved...... Sallay ka body tak nahi mila.... lolx.... It waz he did bad wid Bhutto..... .........../´¯/) .........,/¯../ ........./.../ Zia Suckzzz ..../´¯/.'.../´¯¯·¸ ../'/..../..../..../¨¨/¯\ ('(....´....´.....¯&;/'...') .\.................'...../ .'\'...\..........._.·´ ...\..............( ....\.............\ Shujjat is coming to the point. slowly 9/12/2005 12:08 PM AlThough gradually.. but shujat is coming to the point we all are talkin abt.... Look, He just said "I 'accepted' some of Bhuttos achievements. He did somethings for the country that no one can deny" ... This shows k shujat is really getting the point of ours... And listen Shujat sahab... keeping the dicussion back, let me clear u one thing regarding the partition of Pakistan... I would like to clear u in this matter as my maid clears my house (Totally).. And I hope there would be no WASTE in ur sinful mind then.. Well, this is not only written inthe newspapers... read the books, even if it is written by a Bengali, or a Muslim League supporter... Everybody claims that there was not any hand of Bhutto Sb. in the partition stuff! After the partition, Bhutto thought to give his resignation letter... Like u said, that after the partition he became the PM, this doesn't mean that he supported the partition... He became the Prime Minister, only bcuz General Khan excused him "TO SAVE THE COUNTRY"... After he became the prime minister... He gave a hillarious speech in Sindh, in which he continously repeated his words LETS SAY, THAT WE ARE THAT NATION, THAT PEOPLE, WHO LEARN FROM MISTAKES, AND NO MATTER THE PEOPLE WHO LEARN FROM MISTAKES ARE ABOVE ALL! If he was involved in the partition, then why his eyes washed in tears in that speech? If i m not wrong, u wanna say he was an actor? Man, get the patriotism... and trust me u will also get the tears in ur eyes... even when u r not just giving a heartly speech to the nation, but just READING a delivered speech of bhutto! U should, and must, have the guts to realize to the facts! Read some books, no matter the writer is supporter of PPP or not, and then reply to this message! NOTE: Dont reply before u r fully acknowledged by the books!

ЯύĐз đŨďЭ

Musavir

9/14/2005 12:58 AM Major General (R) Safdar Ali Khan disclosed following on Jawas Deh Programme of Geo TV “Court or no court I will hang that bastard” Zia ul Haq “I am the only one who can hang him; Please let me conduct the trial” Justice Molvi mushtaq to Zia Syed “Take care of him in return I will make you the President” Zia to Justice Anwar ul Haq. “Kill the brother and get rid of both the brother and the sister” some undisclosed powerful people. Hey Shujaat! 9/14/2005 9:21 AM Any person who has studied enough Pak history would know that the situation regarding East and West Pakistan had become so tense during Yahya's reign that nothing could have stopped the break-up, not even Bhutto who is so conviniently blamed 4 everythin' Rather, the credit goes to Gen.Tikka Khan for the separation....who popped into into the scene and began slaughtering the East-Pakistani's like anythin'! Apparently, he was tryin' to help West Pakistan, but his precarious methods did nothin' to calm the situation.

Faraz

Chu chi

Salman

duniya makafat e amal hai 9/16/2005 6:37 AM mr shujaat aap ny iss sentence ko to suna hy ho ga ? baat ko idher hy khatam kartay hain bhutto ko to sirf hang kia gia tha .woh bhi zia k kehnay py. magar zia k saath ALLAH ny kya kia ? ous ki to bones bhi nahin mili thien.sirf ous ki cap ko dafnaya tha ALLAH ny loogoon ko dekha diya "Nishanian hain iss mein aqal waloon k liay" surah AL REHMAN meray khayal mein itna kafi hai @ chu chi 10/3/2005 5:50 AM wah chuchi ji zabardast aap cha gie hain aap ny to wakai mein shujaat ka munh band karwa dia

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=3253961&start=1 topic: What's so special about Bhutto What's so special about Bhutto 10/31/2004 8:55 AM I am not a Sindhi, neither am I a PPP follower. But reading the past and studying the leaders, Mr. Z.A Bhutto no doubt creates an impression. With this topic on...Lets discuss the most special aspects you like about the most presentable, sober and outspoken politicians of all times! give your comments!!! 10/31/2004 10:34 AM hey pple its not abt being a sindhi or a ppp follower, its abt having a serious leader who can lead da nation to prosperity. Bhutoo sahab had all the qualities to be a gud leader and the most important point to be noted here is tht bhuto's intensions were good....... thus he had a good vision for the country, not any 1 province. and INDEED he was the best leader in the history of PAKISTAN! 1/19/2038 3:14 AM Read about him and you will know it that wat is actually so special abt him... he is no more a person he has become a symbol, icon and an ideology ....and u will better understand wat i m saying if u just read abt him :)

Cashev

Ashhar

Pirah Sindhu B H U T T O 11/4/2004 12:06 AM His VISION for a united muslim world which probably died with him..... his charisma,, aura,,, ability to captivate people.... standing up for what he thought was just... we kept fighting for a constitution for 25 years n lost one half of the country .... who gave the first true constitution which reflected peoples wishes... to the extent that its been 31 years and 2 military dictatorial rules yet with all the bloody effort of sharifuddin pirzada the constitution is still the symbol of this federation .... the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of PAKISTAN more to come as the discussion proceeds... 11/9/2004 9:59 PM a true visionary who thought 50 yerz ahead of his time....his foreign policy would have led to sumthing tht the west cudnt bear to c(just picture the global arena of politics had he succeeded).his cunning policies, nationalistic goals nd selfless struggle all came down to an exceptional leader who cud sadly not accomplish his mission.his murder wuz the gr8est tragedy tht befell the muslim world in the 20th century.taught pakistanis to live with honour. "a nations honour is greater than the nations comfort,yes than the nations life itself." 11/10/2004 12:27 PM he was nationalist... Pakistan was primary concern for him chrismatic personality... "intelligence combined with courtesy is the best instrument for seduction" Oriana Fallaci's comments had a gr8 vision... frndship wid China, Iran, unity of muslim world and nuclear plan.... is there ne match was a brave leader... remember security council hard working... "used to work for more than 18 hrs and when free used to read read and read" Nusrat Bhutto used to think dynamicaly... "consistence is virtue of small minds"

Ibrahim

Khizer

ZAB's own views gr8 Politician "well, a polician must hav fairly ligth and delicate fingers, to insuniate them under the bird and take away the eggs one by one . Without the bird realizing that" ZAB's own views and and and and much much more if u wanna know more read read and read russia 11/12/2004 3:17 AM specially his friendship with russia ... first ever initiative to bring balance to pakistan's foreign policy Ibrahim had he succeeded.. we wudnt be living in a unipolar world A GREAT LEADER!!! 11/18/2004 5:41 AM WAT 2 SAY ABT HIM....I M A BIG FAN OF HIZ PERSONALITY....HIZ ATTITUDE TOWARDZ POOR PEOLE...HIZ LOVE WID LOWER CLASS...IT WAZ JUST REMARKABLE...HIZ NUCLEAR PROJECT...EVERYTHING....WELL HIZ DEATH HAD A VERY STONG IMPACT OVER PEOPLE...HE IZ STILL ALIVE IN THE HEARTS OF MANY PEOPLE...A DARING PERSONALITY!!! 11/20/2004 4:07 AM Pakistan became orphan in 1948 with the death of our dearest Mr.Jinnah & was adopted by Mr.Bhutto in 1973 after its long n brutal life in army orphanage. Allas the Pakistan was hanged with Bhutto. The only difference is Bhutto died at the spot & his adopted son the PAKISTAN is still hanging on to the rope with some grasps of life. Anyways whats so great abt the man. Every thing I say, but most of all his ability to speak. He can make n break any one with his speech. "I'll fight, I'll go back & Fight, My country harkens for me. Why Should I waste my time here at security council !!!!!" & he walk off from the session. But I believe great men dnt die, so he lives & I some times feel that his legacy has been reincarnated in me. You may have read him but I have been feeding upon him. He is my political Father, the father I never met, but I'll have my revenge for my Father. We shall all have our revenge for him from those who took him away. Lets all reunit to fulfil his legacy of united Pakistan & Muslim world. Lets make Pakistan a super power. Its time we take Pakistan off the hanging rope n let it live. 11/28/2004 6:55 AM he was the true micheal corleone of this world if there ever was one,bhutto romanticizied the face of pakistani polotics forever. hmm 2/5/2005 5:43 AM he was a literates person and a bold attitude and good thing of buttoo he want to build a educated nation

Khurram

Ahmed Ali

Maimoona You should first... 2/5/2005 10:27 AM I think you should first learn the meaning of Zulifkar, I think only then I promise would tell you what is so special about Him? Because I'm in his home-Town Larkana-Nau Dero, and visit there, who else can tell you more than me,,,,as still some servants alived set a gathering and SsarFarazZ tell how Our Martyr Bhutto lived his life........?

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=4558056&start=1 topic: Zulfi Bhutto - Quaid-e-Awam or Traitor Zulfi Bhutto - Quaid-e-Awam or Traitor 12/1/2004 4:25 AM Guys....What do you think was Zuflikar Ali Bhutto a traitor or the true leader of the People. Zulfi Bhutto was and will remain an icon an ideal for many, but for some he will remain to be known as the Traitor. Zulfi Bhutto was intelligent, clever, honorable but he had his bad qualities. Its all about your view. well every one has a bad qulaities 12/1/2004 4:58 AM everyone has bad qualities...we ppl are not rasools (nauzubillah) bad thing is we have to comapre the bad qualities with good qualities and when they are more in number..we simply ignore the bad qualities ...zulfiqar ali bhuto thinked and used his ablities for pakistan and thats why he was hanged ...even after his impresionment zia used to slaute him... aint this proving a point 12/1/2004 12:44 PM TRAITOR ???? y is he traitor. What bad did he do against the country. He did what he promissed to ppl. ppl asked him to do what he was doing. He did nothing bad nor did he had any intentions to do so. He was hangged in a false murder case, which still has no evidence or record of him being involved. There is no record of him being traitor nither a single case of as such against him in any Pakistani court. He was born hero, he died hero. Wait he is not dead. He lives & He will rise again. Pakistan has had so many rulers but only 2 leaders. Jinnah & Zulfi Bhutto. Both "killed" by the people. Zia dint hang bhutto ,ppl did. He would have been happy if ppl came to save him. Not cause he would have lived but cause ppl gave their verdict. If pp had come out in majority n say "Kill Him" he would have died happy. So its the ppl who r traitors. Ahmed Ali PPL accuse him off dividing the country. How can a man divide he a country when he is not even part or member of the administration. He picked up the broken peaces of the country n glued them, n ppl come up saying bad things against him. Only ppl who hate him r the rich industrialists who had played a monopoly with nation's economy n Bhutto gave them what they deserve. These industrialists r backing the anti PPP n Bhutto govts just to bring his name down. But he has risen too high now 4 any 1 to bring him down. "We the people r taitors, we killed Jinnah & we killed Bhutto, & we r killing our country. If the people dont rise the nation will fall"---I said that. traitor ... thats a strong word budz !!! 12/2/2004 12:54 AM Heyy First of all , Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto has been my idle since childhood. A leader par excellence and a person who knew what he wuz doin and a person who lived accroding to his principles. My dear friend, traitor is too strong a word to be used for this personality. Quaid-e-awam ... Yes ! ROTI-KUPRA OR MUKAAN ... yeh naara aaj bhi humari awam kai laboun per hai ... unfortunately no one to guide our nation to it ... cuz my dear , Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto ain't dere ... although his legacy remains ... laiken us mashal ko aaj tuk kisi nay uthanay ki koshish nahi ki hai . 12/2/2004 5:19 AM rafae are u okayy..?

Rafae

Kamran

F|zZz

Shezreh

Syed

Just ponder !!!! 12/2/2004 9:06 AM He took an oath. He died defending his oath, his country, and the constitution of his country. He could have bargained and lived a luxurious life in some so called kingdom. Riaz ul Khateeb and many-many more were here all along his trial to plead with the military dictator to take ZAB with them. Disobedience of Clause 6 of the constitution of Pakistan is high treason. It is said that ZAB declared at some occasion during the trial that “the dictator has no choice but to hang me if he does not I will hang him for high treason.” The problem with our country is that people at high places are willing to change oath at every turn of the event. I hope my young friends don’t mind for intruding. 12/6/2004 8:12 AM Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, is my idle too. Indeed he was a great man, and great men come once in a century, once in a millenium. He was indeed the Quaid-e-Awam, but the PPP has forgotten all about its unity which they once had under Zulfi Bhutto. I respect the man, I respect his PPP, i respect his dream, he showed to the world, that he was an honorable man. But Benazir Bhutto, doesnt have the charisma of her father, the uniqueness of Zulfi Bhutto. The People still chant Jiyay Bhutto! But by that Bhutto they mean Zulfi Bhutto Lives in their hearts, many might disagree with this. But in the end everyone has Freedom of Speech. Rafae Niazi (Future Prime Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan) Jiye Bhutto 12/8/2004 5:10 AM Huzaaroun Saal Nargis apni baynoori pay roti hai - buri mushkil say hota hai chamun main deedawar payda Rafae ... if u chose dis topic just because of the fact that you dnt like the existing PPP setup ... well, u definitely chose a wrong topic dude. If u would have understood the charisma ZAB had , his personality ... infact his life ... you would have never ever thought of this topic.

Rafae

F|zZz

Syed Jaffer Sahab, freedom of speech prevails ... and you have your freedom of speech. As far as our generation is concerned , yes we 'can' learn a lot from people who have made difference in someone's life. Your more then welcome to comment My regards to your knowledge ONE OF THE BEST 12/8/2004 5:15 AM guys i must say ka he was teh best leader ever.i just cant find teh words to honour him .bot the thing is that he was proud .he said sumthins like once he came of from anaeroplane .n a reporter said sumthing n started with teh name of ALLAH .to MR bhutto said ka pointing straght at the height of his nose" FROM ABOVE THIS POINT IS ALLAH N BELOW IS THE GOVERNMENT OF BHUTTO" n that was teh time when his downfall came.no doubt that he was a goof leader nbelieve me whne i say that pakistan needs bhutto again .bot one who dosent challanges ALLAH .. 12/8/2004 5:30 AM ppp .ppp today isent sumthing bhutto wud like .he had sumdreams which i think his daughter dident honoured.when bhutto died he asked his daughter that ur brothers can not come to pakistan otherwise they wud have been in the party bot coz they cant u have to be ther president .n my name wud definately give u the seat for once.he knew his name is so strong ka gara sarak se kuta la ker ppp ka leader bana data to wo be jheet jata..bot banazire destroyed ppp.ppl like bhutto bot the ppl who like banazire r ignorent.

Salman

Murtaza

BHutto> 12/8/2004 11:52 AM well.. i ve admired since i was 12 man... hes my role model.. ofcourse i can be nuthin even close to him... but still .. wat more can i say... was a man 12/14/2004 1:24 PM Bhutto sahib was a man but a great one. We all are human beings and we should not consider ourselves as infallables. Bhutto sahin himself has got some good qualities & bad as well. But he was a great Pakistani & we should not have any doubt abt his patriotism in precise 12/14/2004 10:17 PM We here are talking about Mr. Bhutto, that was he a traitor or a true leader, but if we use our senses n read the past history which is in the books, in papers, in the form of audios n videos, n ask every other elder man of his time in the country about him, then you'll realise that what we have lost after loosing him, we lost better future of our country, we lost all the hopes, we are in middle right now, we aren't safe with the policies that the current Govt: is running right now. Anytime in the future we may be slaves of other kingdom. No true passionated Armed

S@n@m

Forces we've, like we had in 1965, when i was a kid at tht time i saw a young army man, believe me i was amazed that army man r like this, they wear this, they have this gun etc Now when Army is so indulged with the civilian, they not only lost most of their respect but also they've made themselves weak, they are more into money n the future, this thing has burnt their very roots. Mr. Bhutto was fighting for all this, He was making all the Islamic countries as one Big Powerful Nation, The wealth of Arab countries and the Power of Pakistan, just imagine what Pakistan would had become till now, World Bank was opening its Head Office in Karachi, and Mr. Bhutto's foreign Policies were so strong that Pakistan was introduced in many countries where no one ever heard even her name. He was the man of honor, a brave, enthusiastic, truthful n loyal leader to his country. He sacrificed n left a perfect example for his people, but he never accepted any luxurious offers that he received by Gen: Zia ( on behalf of USA obviously bcoz he was the biggest threat to USA ). Why would he hadn't accepted those, why he sacrificed his life, he would had lived a more better life than Nawaz Shareef is living right now. Only because he loved his country, he loved his people, he always wanted his people to be known throughout the world, he wanted that Pakistan shall never be concured, n in the end he had the loyal blood in his veins n that matters alot. hmmmm 12/14/2004 10:40 PM i would like to say k there are very few personalities in the world which in real words want to do something for our country but unfortunatly our coutry dont know that which value shud be given to that person.About Z.A Bhutto he was the gr8 leader he has a lot of good qualities n also bad qualities as he was a human being but still even more good than our so called politicians which we have n had. At last i would say that he is the gr8 hero n me the gr8 fan of him @ ihtesham 12/18/2004 12:46 PM no 1 but Allah killed Jinnah

Salman 7/9/2005 5:33 AM Guys, some more views on this topic please.......anywayz, who do u think is the rightful heir to the Bhutto throne, Benazir Bhutto, Shaheed Murtaza Bhutto or Mumtaz Bhutto?......Why are the Bhutto's divided, why cant they form a united front once again? We need another leader like Zulfikar Ali Bhutto traitor...?? 7/9/2005 7:18 AM Ppl in this community and ppl living in Pakistan, in my opinion, are quite confused. This is bcuz they tend to expose that "BAD" side of Bhutto's persona which had nothing to do with his politics nd leadership. Yes, guys i m talkin abt his actions such as liberal point of views , his way of style etc...do u think this has got sumthin to do with his leadership ...NOOO!! all in all it effected him....so why r others so worried abt it as long as it doesnt affect 'em...huh? what about musharraf ....is he a MOWLWI....look at women around u ....they wear clothes which werent witnessed in Bhutto's era, who was nd still considered as the most liberal pakistani leader. moreover, guys...YOU ppl r our present nd future, u need to have more spirit than the previous leaders had...i dont see it anywhere around me...do you? 7/9/2005 12:58 PM bhutto was a leader, fuck all who call him traitor 7/10/2005 3:34 AM i agree with you guys Bhutto was the Greatest Leader Pakistan ever had and he will remain in the hearts of the people....Jiyay Bhutto....but we can not always think about the past, the future is what we need to think about and the future shows us that there is no more that Bhutto who will lead us today....the Bhutto of today (Benazir) is a corrupt politician and is not good at diplomacy....she is no where near Zulfi Bhutto.....so the question comes, should we look towards another leader? or should we remain with the Bhutto's just because she is the daughter of Pakistans greatest Politician? Well, being a great fan of Zulfi Bhutto and a Patriotic Pakistani, i believe we should look towards another leader, we should forget about Benazir Bhutto.....Musharaff should continue atleast till 2007.....Long Live Bhutto, Pakistan Zindabad - Prince of Mianwali

Rafae

Ayesha

Frave

Rafae

7/10/2005 3:52 AM I don't understand, why do we have to be aggresive & abusive in this discussion group. Everyone has their own opinions and even if we don't agree with them, we should try to convince them with facts not abusive language. Personally i'm a huge fan of Z.A Bhutto so i won't go into his qualities as i'm sure u all know more then me, although i do think some of his policies were wrong. For one, Nationalization was a huge mistake on a personal and econimic level. Today after almost more then 30 years, we can see that in the entire world, Capitalism is successfull. Majority of the government institutions are in huge losses & being privatized now. On a personal level, it was very unethical for a government to take over private buisness without paying a single rupee. How would any one of us would feel if our buisness is taken over by present day government without paying us anything and claiming it for the good of the nation.

Asad

Benazir Bhutto 7/10/2005 5:04 AM I like the way u think Prince of Mianwali, although i kind of dissagree with u. I don't think Benazir Bhutto is corrupt, although the people surrounding her are corrupt as hell.............. I mean lets consider Naheed Khan, wasn't she her maid when she first came in 1986 and got married. Why is she such a huge PPP spokesmen now. The same goes for Asif Ali Zardari, he pushed himself into PPP ranks only becuz he was Benazir's husband. what happened to the real PPP workers who went to jail and were tortured during Zia era................ Why is Qasim Zia President of Punjab PPP, if donating money can get u on a high post in a PPP, Asad then God save the party! 7/10/2005 5:47 AM well Those who r using TRAITOR word 4 this gr8 personality r their self traitors.. This man have saved this pakistan otherwise our army n general yahya khan were goin to give this land in hands of India too.But that waz Bhutto Sahib who saved our dear Home land n I think he is the real Father of nation n this pakistan iz Bhutto's pakistan coz Quaid-e-azam's pakistan was combined east n west pakistan which is already been broken. Camran Therefore now Mr.Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto shud b declared as Founder of Islamic Republic of Pakistan. 7/11/2005 5:37 AM Mr.Kamran, dont be stupid...think before u say somethin......Pakistan is neither Bhutto's nor is it Jinnah's..Pakistan is for the Awam.....Both Bhutto and Jinnah are gone.....both were great leaders...but they cant be our everyday role models....think for a second.....were these leaders Islamic? i dont think so.....someone was telling me that Jinnah ate pork....now if the leader of an Islamic nation eats pork than what would the citizens do? who follow him?.....Jinnah and Bhutto were great leaders but not great human beings....by the way i Rafae really prefer Bhutto over Jinnah because he was a much better politician.......and guys i wanna ask u guys another question, Who murdered Kasuri (i dont remember the full name)? Was Bhutto behind the attacks? My thinking is that Bhutto was behind it, but i dont know much about this incident so wont say anything else. BS.... 7/11/2005 8:26 PM Lissen Mr Rafae....and lissen carefully....its xtremists like u, who have their vision blinded by their narrow mindedness....who r responsible for wots happeneing to Pakistan......do u knw ke since the reign of the 4 Khulfaa-e-Rashideen,Islamic Shariat has never been enforced in its entirety...wot has been in effect r interpretations......our ultimate goal is to attain complete enforcement of the shariah.....but in order to achieve that....we have to use intermediate paths.......and dat is xactly wot Bhutto did......and Mr Kamran......i think u need to get ur perspective correct as well......Bhutto was a great statesman but not as great as Jinnah.......so Muhammad calling him the Father of this nation is preposterous........personally speaking i think both of u r ungrateful brats......aaj Pak naa hotaa naa.....Hindu jab sub ki bajatay......to lagg pataa jataa......eating pork dats wot U wudv been doin......ungrateful ppl............. i dun hav da words to show my disgust on ur comments......... 7/12/2005 5:35 AM its all about our point of view mister.....i have high regards for Zulfi Bhutto and Jinnah both....but the point im raising is that they werent good muslims....they were great politicians...indeed Bhutto cant take Jinnahs place.....but i was just stating that i have higher Rafae regards for Bhutto....anywayz Jinnah was even a great leader.......but who is the rightful heir to the bhutto throne, Murtaza or Benazir?....... 7/12/2005 12:00 PM Mr. RAfee mind u I m not stupid ..Its u who making stupid comments.. when u r saying that u dun know much then how can u comment like this..n as far as a issue of being good muslim is I think this is everyone's individual contribution ..if someone not a good muslim then i have Camran nothing to do wid this .This is b/w ALLAH n him..dun u ever heard that lines

AREY MULLAH JANAZA PARH MEIN JANU MERA KHUDA JANEY So its everyones personal matter.. n i have already told u that Dun believe on BAKED INFO as u said now that someone told u ab Mr.Jinnah.. Dun beleive on these things my dear ... try to discover urself.. and i think Steps which Mr.BHUTTO took for making Pakistan a total Muslim state r highly appretiateable.. He worked against America and Qadianis for that measures.. He took bold steps for the united Muslim world. So i think being a Statesman he was a complete Muslim n I have nothing to do wid his personal life coz tht was b/w him n ALLAH.. and as far as kasuri's murdur in concerend I will suggest u to read the book which r Bhutto's letter to His daughters during his imprisonment.. I will again suggest to read through in any matter before giving ur comments on it. U Rock Rafae 7/12/2005 2:36 PM Keep it up Rafae, u are making a lot of sense compared to others............... Quaid-e-azam is the founder of Pakistan & Zulfikar Ali Bhutto has his own special place in Pakistan's history. No one can take their places. I just can't understand why some of you think that Z.A Bhutto was the biggest Islamic leader. He banned liquor & passed a legislation against qadiani's in 1977 before his government was removed just to clam people. Although i think his biggest religious achievement was to arrange islamic summit in Pakistan. 7/13/2005 6:33 AM asad i appreciate your support....and dont like the others talking about stuff which they dont even know....u guys r only looking from the point of view of the Bhuttos what about Kasuri....why is that everyone who was the opponent of Bhutto was the worst person whereas everyone who supported him were good.....PPP is a secular party......and Bhutto did something for Islam by holding the Islamic Summit and ofcourse the Islamic Bomb.....but everyone knows that Bhutto was a drinker and a drinker is not a good Muslim no matter hes Bhutto or hes me.....just get that.....Bhutto was not at all the greatest Islamic leader....but was the greatest Pakistani leader after Jinnah.....Bhutto supported Ayub but went against him, why?.....if Benazir Bhutto is so damn good then how come the real people who supported Zulfi Bhutto dont support her? why dont u guys answer this question? every politician has higher regards for Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi then Benazir.....why shouldnt we support NPP or SNF or SDA or PPP-SB...why should we only follow PPP just because everyone else around us does that......we werent even there when Zulfi Bhutto ruled so we can never be sure....thats the reason why i say i can not be 100% currect...becuz history teaches me that we cant be 100% currect...........itz all abt your opinion 7/14/2005 6:52 AM im waiting for replies

Asad

Rafae

Rafae 7/15/2005 6:25 PM traitor ??, nops at all , he was the only dictator of pakistan who did some thing for the country and used to think for it, if we say him traitor so we have just fick up on us, F a H a D... we have lost a good dictator cos of some polititians and thats why we are incurring problems

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=4826595&start=1 topic: Need your few words abut Bhutto Sahab !! Need your few words abut Bhutto Sahab !! 12/8/2004 12:54 PM i need ur few beautifull and extraodinary comments .. plzz.. a worker...

‫روصنم‬ 12/9/2004 4:03 AM words cant describe him, specialy few of them. Ahmed Ali he is great 12/9/2004 12:10 PM its a fact that words can not describe him he was the best he was the hero simply he was a adorable personality i love him and......

Batista Siddique aaahhhh 12/9/2004 9:24 PM Guys Mr. Bhutto is one of the best person i know after reading abt him, i wasn't born when Mr. Bhutto was in existence, but i've read, researched n realised abt him tht he was the best man for Pakistan n really was a man of honor ... a brave, intelligent, determined, enthusiastic etc these r few of his qualities, he was hell of a genius, he was combining all the islamic countries together n making them one big power, with the power of Pakistan n the wealth of Arab, just imagine wat life would now muslims might have be living ... The World Bank was developing its main branch in Karachi, n just imagine wat Pakistan would have been right now ... n the muslims of afghanistan, iraq, palestine, chechniya, bosnia etc ese suffer na kerte kabhi bhi ... He brought Dr. Qadeer Khan into Pakistan, so that now we r proud to be a Nuclear power only bcoz of Mr. Bhutto n we shd not forget this ... Mr. Bhutto's foreign affairs were excellent n really gave a name to the whole world which is Pakistan, otherwise pehle koi bhi nahi janta tha ... he was doing much efforts like these n thts the reason behind his Assasination, he was the biggest danger to america's forcefuly applied policies to muslim countries ... so by the help of Mr. Zia ( a traitor ) they assasinated Mr. Bhutto ... Mr. Zia offered Mr. Bhutto with many choices of leaving the country etc but Mr. Bhutto was determined, truthful n brave, woh peeche nahi hate, n he sacrificed his life n left the best example for braveness, trustworthiness, n for the humanity ... we being true pakistanis should not ignore or forget this great man ... the best politician in the world, the best person in the world, i dont like any other politician, only Ma'ma Benazir is good otherwise the whole PPP has now become corrupt ... n all other politicians simply sucks ... My Prayer for a man who tried n wanted the best for his country n for the humanity ... JEAY BHUTOO !!!! 12/9/2004 9:27 PM MARYTERS DON'T DIE !!! THEY LIVE !! SO HE LIVES !

Murtaza

Ashhar to Murtaza 12/12/2004 6:39 AM an excellent explanation abt Bhutto saab ... u ve described him well in few words .... but .... i wont agree with the last part of ur post. i think Benazir Bhutto is no match to her father... infact, i think she has disappointed the nation ... the whole nation was expecting much more from the daughter of that great man but she has not come up to the expectations... tell me her one extraordinary achievement that could match her father's achievements ???

Nouman

Murtaza

to Nouman 12/13/2004 11:44 PM yaar i didn't say tht she is a match to her father, i was talking abt PPP so i just mentioned tht she is fine from others, she don't have sincere n good party leaders, her companion was the disaster in her life, these r few of the points tht just bounded her in coming out as her own ... but being a woman she did alot, as u know here is Pak its really difficult for a woman to show herself, but she didn't only show herself but also fought back after his father's assasination ... read it man wat she did n how she faced everything n how she faced torturing time in jails ... i guess being a woman its really appreciable ... but wat she hasn't got is a sincere bunch of leaders in her party ... anyways man there is no match for Mr. Bhutto, n Ma'am Benazir herself accepts it ... 12/14/2004 1:58 AM MAIN BHUTTO HOON ! MAIN BHUTTO HOON. "I'LL FIGHT ! I'LL GO BACK & FIGHT. MY COUNTRY HARKENS FOR ME! Y SHOULD I WAIST MY TIME HERE AT SECURITY COUNCIL." "Aray Haramiyoon, aray zalimoon, aray zulm karnay waloon, churu iss kursi ko,ye awam ki kursi hai, awam ko chalane do, tum se nahi chale gi......." "BHUTTO: TU KHAO KASM, KARO WADA.....PAKISTAN K LIYE KAAM KAROGE AWAM: KARAINGAI BHUTTO: PARHO GAI AWAM: PARHAIN GAI BHUTTO: MEHANT KARO GAI AWAM KARAIN GAI BHUTTO: PAKISTAN K LIYE LARO GAI AWAM : LARAIN GAI BHUTTO: PAKISTAN K LIYE MAROO GAI AWAM: MARAIN GAI BHUTTO: KHUDA KI KASM KAROO GAI AWAM: HAAN KHUDA KI KASM KARAIN GAI Ab aaoo maee (women: refered to Indra Gandhi) ab laro Pakistan se." these quotations I hope will describe him. !~ Zulfikar Ali Bhutto ~! 12/14/2004 4:03 AM Well I didnt know much about 'Zulfikar Ali Bhutto'....I liked 'Zulfikar Ali Bhutto' because my father liked 'Zulfikar Ali Bhutto' alots .... so I followed him... but when I read about 'Zulfikar Ali Bhutto' Now from my understandings all I'd say about 'Zulfikar Ali Bhutto' would be that :

Ahmed Ali

Jamil

Ahmed Ali

-----> After Qauid-e-Azam if there was anyone... who could be called 'The Man of Honour & Resolute Character' is Mr.Zulfikar Ali Bhutto' <----12/16/2004 12:29 AM Well my Uncle was one of the ZAB's best friends. I first saw him in pics hanging in my Uncle's drawing room,n whem i come to know who he was I became a huge fan. M his fan since i was a child.

12/16/2004 1:41 AM Making of BHUTTO. Before 65 during and after the war it seemed impossible to remove Ayub the self styled field marshal. But all those interested in the future of this country were worried and knew that if the dictatorship prolonged it will be bad for the country and that ultimately it will break the country itself, students were the most vocal. It is said that the breakup of this country was decided under the very president-ship of the dictator during 66: Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report hints to this effect, it is implied too that the 6-points of Mujeeb were drafted by a civil servant. ZAB was one of the very strong supporters of Ayub until then, and was his foreign

Syed

minister. After the war Bhutto had to resign as a consequence of his differences with Ayub on Tashkent and other issues. No doubt the man ZAB was a true patriot with feelings, hidden some where inside his dynamic personality visible only to those with vision. A true leader of this country its poor and the middle classes, was famous world over, an orator of the highest standard, very hard working, highly learned sophisticated aristocrat. The students of those days were the spear head of the movement for the restoration of democracy. I was one of the common students of those days. Mind you we were students only not muhajirs, punjagies, sindhies, bangolies, baloochies, pathans, muslims, christians, or hindoos. Any excesses against a student would result in an agitation culminating to such a situation where the government of the day was forced to kneel down. We as a nation had no TV, radio, and internet, fax or news paper of our own to express our views, all the meers and haroons of the media of that day were most of the time siding with the government of the day. People were only given on the media what the government of the day thought fit for the consumption of the nation the common people. Continued 12/16/2004 2:11 AM Continued Making of BHUTTO There was an invisible Grand National alliance of the students lawyers laborers peasants left and liberals at the grass root level where as all the leaders even the leftist ones at the top were fighting for the positions in their respective parties, a leader not getting the position as he thought fit for himself would form his own new party. People involved in the discussion against the anti-people policies of the government were taken as traitors and would vanish in thin air. Demands raised by the students were reflected almost in all the manifestos of the leftist parties of the day. Government of those days had acquired the power to take back a degree awarded to a student after the successful completion of his studies. A student wanting to import books for his studies would require buying dollars from the open market at a price of Rs. 15 where as an industrialist traveling abroad for whatever purpose would get a dollar for Rs. 5 only. Syed All the wealth of the country was accumulated in the hands of 90 families only. An industrialist would have his factory, his own insurance company, his bank, take overdraft from the bank without a legal stand, burn his own factory get written off his debts and claim on the insurance company and the bank of his own while the wealth accumulated in the banks and the insurance companies would belong to a common and poor depositor. An industrialist would pay 1 % of his turnover only as salaries to his employees and staff and keep all the remaining for him self, condition prevails even today. While there was unity among the poor masses for their demands there was another Grand National alliance of industrialist, molvies, landlords, vested interest, the smugglers, a number of generals, and most of the bureaucrats. Continued Jiay Bhutto 12/16/2004 2:27 AM Continued Making of BHUTTO An industrialist could put up an industry if he could show certain assets and was able to borrow more than twice that amount form the banks. Having sanction to put-up an industry he was allowed to import necessary machinery from abroad. With banks and insurance companies of his own or in private hands was able to misappropriate the entire amount by over invoicing. Almost in every case an industrialist was able to withdraw more than what he initially invested at the very beginning of the project. As per the record collected to that date all the dawoods adams jees etc etc. were on records of having “Zero” contribution to the revenue of this country while their group would give birth to a new industrial unit every five years. It was hard to understand how the industrial empires were growing while the record showed them being in loss all along. Well the write-up is getting very long but it is very necessary to elaborate the actual situation when the great leader; my HERO was in making. And he was at the highest of levels when he was assassinated. In short the strongest forum for any political venture was the platform where the students of that day were venting their feelings. All the political leftist parties were in disarray while all the rightist parties were the lackeys of the establishment; students were the leaders while the leaders would follow us. None had the capability to lead. Nation was in

Syed

desperate need of a true leader and we saw him in ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO. We needed him and he needed us we were organs of the same body. Mind you ZAB used the platform of the students before initiating his own party. There was nothing wrong in it Quaid e Azam was in congress when the young fellows of Aligargh invited him to work for Muslim League and our caliphs were not in its fold before they saw the light of Islam. Continued 12/16/2004 2:46 AM Continued Making of BHUTTO. ZAB owned all the demands of the students of the day and made them a part of his manifesto. He strived to fulfill all the demands and tried to implement them one by one. What he wanted in 77 was another term to consolidate his reforms. Believe me he was the genuine winner of that election too I was his voter and I firmly stand by it and can prove it, but the establishment created confusion in the minds of people and falsely accused him of rigging the election. Thereafter the establishment lead by another general was so fearful of the followers of ZAB that the elections could not be held until the general fell from the sky and the following general thought it necessary to have a civilian setup. He may be resting in peace in Garhi Khudabuksh I am not sure because if I am dead and able to see the condition of this nation I would just be frustrated and would want to die another death. He was accused that to win the Larkana constituency he kidnapped some unknown and insignificant leader of Jamat e Islami. He had than said that I can defeat Jan Mohammed Abbasi from Garihi Khudabuksh. The place is a grave yard he has kept that promise too, he is defeating his opponents till now from his grave. For more than two decades every ill conceived effort has been made to eliminate him from the history and his opponents have failed miserably. Even today the largest vote of this country is for him. All the parties claiming to stand by the people of this country use his name for the support. The polarization to the present day is, for or against BHUTTO. I am proud that my leader stood by what he believed in and died an honorable death defending his oath this country and its constitution. Few words and summaries can be misleading. Thank you for letting out my true feelings. Jiay Bhutto sada Jiay. oh i love to 12/16/2004 5:57 AM I love to talk on this man ok i m his fan from my childhood bcz of my father but as i grew up i read books about him n the old newspapers of 1980's n also more n really start idealising this person i think dont have many words for him but what he has done for our country n for us that is really gr8 but unfortunatly what now PPP is doing is so pathetic when i look at this gr8 leader n then to present PPP then really i m so much shocked But i would like to say that if PPP remain or not but a gr8 leader like Z.A Bhutto would b there forever jiye BHUTOOO We lost one of the Best Leader 12/17/2004 5:18 AM Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto was the best leader, and Pakistan will never ever get the personality like Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, Everyone realise his efforts which he made for the betterment of Pakistan. as well as for Arabs, During the tenure of Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto as a Prime Minister of Pakistan he had given awakness to the Arab World and Now these days Arab World become a richest countries of the World all because of the ideas of Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto. He wants to do lot of things for Pakistan and the People of Pakistan, but his enemy never let him to do. Really we lost one of the Great Leader and Pakistan will never every get the leader like Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto. 1/22/2005 2:48 PM Sir Bhutto is really a Legend.Words cannot describe him.I must say that if Sir Bhutto never murdered,Pakistan would be the Super Power.Sir Bhutto did alot for Pakistan and for Muslims.Especially his slogan "Rooti,Kapra aur Makaan"..........................................................Jiyay Bhutto.May his soul rest in peace.AMIN 1/23/2005 6:03 AM Jab Tuk Sooruj Chand Rahey Ga ...BHUTTO Tera Naam Rahey Ga......May His Soul rest In Peace...Ameen...

Syed

S@n@m

Zahid

/~\+iI=

Bari

1/24/2005 3:47 AM main to buss itna kahon ga ke in jaisa is dunya main aur koi nahi aasakta agar agaya to paksitan tabhi tarraqee karay ga...rite guys?????

Khurram

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=6215430&start=1 topic: Why is it all praise for Bhutto? Why is it all praise for Bhutto? 1/9/2005 12:38 PM Why is it all praise for Bhutto? How come a fresh Barrister directly got into Ayub’s cabinet with no prior political legacy ? Sajjad 1/10/2005 8:22 AM ZAB was only one who delivered. After he took over there were a number of reforms he was su He was able to bring together all the divergent parties to agree on one constitution. He was abl winning party in the war and bring back our solders. What ever he did was in accordance with t constitution. He was able to take over all the major industries and nationalized them. Those wh enterprise may not like it but it was in the interest of Pakistan. The nationalization was and still progress for the poor countries. With the free market economy USA took 200 years to come to development which USSR achieved in 70 years and China did in 25 years. The difference is be control and prevalent corruption of the state on the running and development of the industry. I w on because I know a lot of objections will be raised on the issue of nationalization. I will try to co by one if the discussion on this topic continues. 1/10/2005 8:34 PM Well nice to hear from u Syed,I didn't mean that he didn't do anything good! He must have done all those things you mentioned but did you ever thought of how a 25-26 year guy who just graduated ended up in such a high profile job of a cabinet minister under an authoratarian ruler! 1/10/2005 9:28 PM Yeah, Ardeshir Cowasjee often writes about the way Zulfi came into politics. He calls him a sycophant who was about to become a great leader but was hanged. I don't agree that he did not have a political background. He was the son of Sir Shahnawaz Bhutto and was one of the most influential feudals of Sindh. Whatever is the case, we should always salute his work which resulted in the betterment of Pakistan. Syed Sahab nationalization is a great debate, should form another thread for that. 1/11/2005 3:05 AM to be old is not the qualification to enter into politics.. Jhon Nash was in his early 20's when he wrote the theory which won him the Noble Prize in Economics... so being Young is not an obstical. and if u r a GOD Gifted leader like ZAB.. u can find ur ways to the top in every condition.. 1/11/2005 8:06 AM Leader and followers relation is a very strange phenomenon. But definitely there are a lot of other things too. He was the son of a prominent personality of his time; family relations do have sure contribution in ones life. ZAB himself had a very volatile personality in his youth. He was a very active in student’s activities during his education life. He was a very hard working person. It is said that all the other presidents and prime ministers before him would only read the extracts or summaries of the reports for policy making, while Bhutto would go through the full report with all the margins full or remarks to the extent he would correct punctuation. My uncle told me that he made a typographic mistake and wrote “the matter was discussed in retail” instead of detail, ZAB prompted with the remark on the margin “what about whole sale”. He would recall persons by his name at the first glance. Above all the mob psychology is very peculiar, when people love someone you cannot attribute any reason. 1/11/2005 8:28 AM Don’t think that other leaders of his time were in any way less than Bhutto. To name some Doultana, Qaium Khan, Mufti Mehmood, Bhashani, Wali Khan also worked hard each one had and was committed to what they professed. Each one of these had the back ground of links and relations in one way or the other. A few like Bhashani were from the masses. But the love Bhutto got from the people was exemplary; those who loved him then still love him, to the extent that their offspring also adore him. Even today the polarization is for or against Bhutto. People, the leaders from Bhutto’s party, who joined him in the early stages of the PPP struggle, were mostly committed and hard working coming from the ‘wadera’ background. When these leaders left Bhutto to form their own factions could not get the peoples support.

Syed

Sajjad

Mujji

Syed

Syed

Mr.BHUTTOU IS GREAT 1/11/2005 8:35 AM well i dont have words for the personality like bhutto sahib,straight forwardness,honesty and sincerity to people were his assets.He was a friend of my dad(late)...,they hav real good memories.goshhhhhhhh we missed a gm... Fayez I Love u Bhutto 1/11/2005 9:33 AM United States of islam is concept of 1970's by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Shah Faisal shaheed and few other muslim leaders. In islamic summit which was held in Lahore at that time this concept was finalised . which was to make a unity of islamic countries as a Muslim Ummah. but unfortunately western countries didnot like that as non muslims are enemies of islam how they want 2 see muslims in thier full strength. Henry kasinger then fm of USA came Pakistan and he said Bhutto that Mr. Bhutto we will make a horrible figure of u if u continue to work on ur agenda. then they kill Faisal shaheed and Z.A.Bhutto . now i think again time have came when islam is again in danger. we have to think of unity. 1/11/2005 9:02 PM I shall not like to use words like "in danger" but one thing is for sure that we are at a very important point in Islamic History from where we'll move towards islamic renaissance or further subordination by the so-called "developed world".

Shahzad

Mujji

1/12/2005 2:55 AM he was a man of dignity and the other thing i would say is JEVAy BHUTTO SAHIB Naveed 1/12/2005 9:12 AM its simple and straigt...he ws the one who took the poor from sitting on the ground infront of landlords to sitting on chairs with them as equals.. 1/14/2005 2:26 AM i would say only one thing..."JEAY BHUTTO SADA JEAY"...JEAY BENAZIR SADA JEAY" Bari

Sardar

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=6862172&start=1&na=3&nid=187664-686217239610463 topic: Husna Shaikh Husna Shaikh 1/22/2005 4:05 AM Wht was the deal with women and Bhutto? Husna Shaikh was just one of many instances... Hi 1/25/2005 4:33 AM Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto is was the great person , human & political leader for pakistanis never like bhutto alive no one great for me in all over countries except THE GREAT BHUTTO i have also movies of bhutto in which his speeches and so soooooo.. 1/25/2005 5:01 PM Imran, She is not talking about how great Bhutto was, there are many threads about that, She is refering to the famous affair of Bhutto with Husna Sheikh. Most of the neutral books mention the affair in a bit of detail like Stanley Wolphert's Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan. Mr Wolphert also writes that Bhutto was a womanizer during his stay in States and England. Other people also mentions about the Husna affair like Qudarat ullah Shahab, so, at least I belief there was something because where there is smoke, there is fire. 1/25/2005 6:44 PM It is normal for people to hang around famous people. These fans could be male or female. Does the ability of a person as a politician diminish, him being in affair with a woman? Opponents of Bhutto went as long as declaring him an illegitimate. Some …..Kashmiri an editor of Chattan I guess use to fill all the issues of his magazine with filthy stuff against ZAB. And the islamist used to feel proud carrying that magazine along with them all the time with their personal stuff. Maligning him was the main task for his opponents and it is no secret that the campaign was funded by CIA and our forces took active part in it. 1/25/2005 9:44 PM I fully agree that his personal life has nothing to do with his leadership skills and many people try to slander about that without any reason but People like MrWolphert and MrShahab have some credibility. Another fact is that both of them are his staunch supporters, so, if they say something about Husna Sheikh and other women then there must be something. 1/25/2005 11:31 PM Well i was reading my feudal lord by Tehmina Durrani some days ago and she also discussed his relations with Husna Sheikh..... Well weather he had relations with that lady or not these issues are personal matters as far as Mrs Nusrat Bhutto had no objections on it or she remained loyal with him and dont speak any thing against Bhutto we people should not discuss his personal life publicaly... Well every one knows that what in our society is happening we should see ourselves first every boy has a girl friend now and every single girl is having a boy friend now so are we in the position to criticize any other body when we ourselves are not clean ? TCares Ali @aLi... 1/26/2005 3:59 AM i'vE aLso ReaD mY FeuDal LoRD bY TeHMiNa DuRRaNi.... i dUn rEMembER eXaCTLy...BuT iN ThaT boOK iTs RiTTeN, HuSNa sheiKh wUz BhuTTo's sEcreT WiFe...n0boDy kneW abouT theiR aFFaiR aT dA iNiTiaL staGE oF theiR ReLaTiOns... eXCePT a FeW ppL Lyk MusTaFa khAR... @ Ali 1/26/2005 8:30 PM You are right that we have no right that we should discuss anybody's private life but a few things I shall like to mention according to Mr Wolphert and Mr Cowasjee, Ms Nusrat Bhutto was livid about Bhutto's relations with other women and they specifically mention many instances where they witnessed or learned about their private enmity. On the other hand, I don't think that every youth has got a galfriend or boy friend in our society.....I am a living example and I am very proud about this fact! 1/28/2005 6:59 PM hey!!! is anybuddy jealous here...???? Ibrahim with the stature of bhutto... there wud hv been hundreds of husna sheikhs....

Imran

Mujji

Syed

Mujji

Raja

AxE`

Mujji

but at the end its his personal life... his personal domain and if any one has any pics of husna shaikh wid bhutto.... i wud luv to c them..... zara daikhain.... kon thi wou bandi jis par bhutto tunnn tha Whats the big deal? 1/31/2005 4:08 AM Whats the big deal about it even if thats true?

Aasim Guys we should just leave the topic 1/31/2005 6:39 AM Its human nature, if boys dont fall for girls then theyre probably GAY. So we can say Bhutto proved one point atleast and besides he's a dead man now, so we should just leave him in peace. I prefer talking about his policies and the way he couldve changed our country and lets not forget the hard time he gave to CIA and the americans. Mind Ur Language.. 2/4/2005 11:55 AM Martyr Zulifkar Ali Bhutto is not dead he is Martyr, mind it....

Danish

SsarFarazZ 2/4/2005 1:04 PM One of the biggest reasons that I really admire Bhutto is that he slept with a looooottt of women. A lot more than I ever will (I try not to believe in this, but I have to be realistic). And even if its not true - I still admire him for the ability to conjure up such exploits about himself - or make ppl do it for him. As I see it a leaders sexual drive is a gauge of his agressiveness - as you know lions mate more than 50 times a day. 2/5/2005 2:49 AM Most of u have sent in things like " Guys will fall over grls, its natural " . Its not the fact that Bhutto was a womanizer- the thing is , that husna shaikhs' affair was an "Extra-marital one"! If in a value-less country like the US, the President cud be put at stake for impeachment, than think of this country as a much more orthodox one, relatively. theres no doubt that Bhutto, as a policy maker, as a leader, as a true intellectual , had created marvels... And theres no doubt also on the other hand that most of the politicians in this country are very similar in attributes to those of Bhuttos personal lifes..who doesnt do all that stuff Nusrat Bhutto was following the true traditions of being a wife to a Sindi Feudal lord..she has to accept the fact that she'll have to share yet by the end of the day the guy will always return to her and have the utmost respect for her only...others r just passers-by Sometimes I wonder wht Bhuttos family, or his daughter wud have to say abt Husna Shaikh..i mean she just vanished into thin air, no reports of her, not even if shes alive or dead

Farhan

Community: Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=7665361&start=1 topic: BENAZIR'S INTERVIEW ON" JAWABDEH" BENAZIR'S INTERVIEW ON" JAWABDEH" 2/13/2005 7:25 AM hey guys what do u think of the interview benazir recently gave to the geo people. i think it was super that way she handled the questions. have ur say.

Mehreen Well 2/13/2005 3:38 PM ....This was not first time she could have given interview to the channel. She's been master of this, she has appeared in more news magazines of Europe, Fast-East, and Americas. Geo is nothing, that can be taken for granted, SsarFarazZ 2/14/2005 12:22 AM atleast her urdu has gotten better over the years

Shiraz weLL.. 2/14/2005 2:14 AM well she no how to face thiz type of..thing she iz master in giving interviews.

T@H@ Yep it was awesome! 2/14/2005 4:45 AM hmm yeh i liked it... amazing 2/14/2005 2:09 PM i like her bold attitude and how they tackle the question hmmn nice shes a amazing women with sharp mind and i also seen a follow up with fahad also a nice interview Maimoona 2/14/2005 3:12 PM But whats the point of being so eloquent, when you cant channel it for your own country in the 2 tenures she had?... On the other hand, we have a military ruler who has actually done more... 2/14/2005 9:52 PM all my gora friends that have kept up with politics in pakistan think she is hot

Shujaat

Shiraz 2/15/2005 4:55 AM and that on that murtaza bhutto's question. she got so emotional that she left the stage for a while.i think that was really wise cuz had she cried infront of the camerab geo tv wud have made a drama of it.

Mehreen

HMM 2/16/2005 12:56 PM ya she anger with him question and shoutly say y liyaqat ali khan son dont investigate for his father

Maimoona 2/16/2005 12:56 PM and he was also murder by

Maimoona hmmm 2/17/2005 7:02 AM well im fond of her courage and attitude from the first day...which made her different from our other so called politicians...

Fahad BENAZIR'S INTERVIEW ON" JAWABDEH" 2/17/2005 6:13 PM Yup ! She is always amazing !

Nukhbat 2/21/2005 12:51 AM She is so used to giving interviews that she can just wakeup and give one without any preparation Usman 3/1/2005 3:36 AM well i think the way geo tv presented the interview was quite bold n that just to support musharraf. the thing is that benazir is much more bigger than this geo channel , in their interview they were trying to impose murtaza's murder on her which is something really absurd. n they also didnt cut the scene when she leaves the interview room,that is just to make people believe that she cant asnwer .....but she is very intelligent lady n knows how to tackle such things. i was really amused by the way she called the host a ""journalist" .... s H i T 3/1/2005 7:35 AM I DoNt KnOw y u PeOpLe ARe LiKinG HeR REaLLy SpEaKiNg ... ShE iS sHiT Ali 3/1/2005 8:19 AM well ali its not ur fault , the thing is is just dat u dont have a brain good enough to understand her , i m amazed that u r calling her a shit, u know what!!! such remarks r given by ignorants, sorry to say that but thats the fact. u don know her, u r speaking whatever u hv gathered from government supporting newspapers or discussions..grow up man n have ur own opinions. n if u have any negative opinion abt her then express it but quite sensibly , we r not discussing aishwarya rai ok, so dont use such cheap words like shit, we r talking abt benazir bhutto. respect her status . fine? i have a different view 3/1/2005 10:44 AM Benazir leaving da programme was emotional or something else..... son of Liaquat Ali was not the Prime of Pakistan but Benazir Bhutto was one..... wen shabaz Sharif(not as popular as Benazir) can make a try to come back,y cant she? n da last thing she said dat she does not possess Surey Palace.....registeriing something on ur husband's name does not mean dat u dont possess dat...........

Riya

Riya

Fahad

WeLL iTs Me AgAiN 3/2/2005 3:28 AM Hi 2 aLL first i would like 2 give the definition of a prime minister " a person who takes care of the people of his country " i said her shit because 1)she sold the power house of pakistan and bought a MAHAL consisting ofabout 213 room and each room of about 4 acres 2)she got the light expensive 3)she was just taking care of the people of sindh not whole the country .. 4)people respect her coz she is the daughter of zulfiqar ali bhutto ( my ideal ) and not for something that she has done for the whole COUNtRy.. 5)she makes people flow in emotions not reality.. 6) AND if really she wants to do something for the people of pakistan so why is she sitting out of the country if she comes in PAKISTan so the police will arrest her so WhAt sheshould sacrifice for ThE cOuNtRy ...

Ali

Riya

AnD aGaIn ShE iS sHiT 3/2/2005 3:58 AM well ali ! do u have any evidence against her regarding all what u mentioned?? i m sure u dont have any coz u r telling wut u have learnt from newspapers n general political discussions which r mostly based on government supporting factors. u r talking abt the charges on her n not the proved facts. tell u what, when musharraf will leave the seat, u will find urself talking abt him like that too, coz its the very common practice here. so plz stay away from all this n let the court decide it. wut we r discussing here is her interview on geo channel . n by calling her a shit , u have again proved that u r not sensible enough to make healthy discussions.u want to abuse her coz u know ur point is not that strong enough n so u r using this tool of abusing.grow up man!!!ooh not a man, grow up "guy". I aM NoT a AbUzEr 3/2/2005 6:19 AM first of all i am not a abuzer ... and wat about ur fuzz about newspapers or not my desicision bla BlA bLa .. har kisi ki apna mind hota hai ... and i know that u know how 2 respect others .... my thinking iz toTaLLy different from ur thinking and u know wat i think thats cool .... really speaking i dont think that benazir bhutto is a good lady ... and if u think that the court is gonna decide wats really going on so u are wrong ... well LeAvE iT ... MUJHE APPP SE KOI PANGA NAHI LENA ... MEIN NE YE FORUM IS LIYE JOIN KYA KE SHAAYAD YAHAN KUCH ACHA HOGA PAR MY mIsTaKe...... well bye i am outta here 3/2/2005 9:04 AM well ali!!thats wut i m trying to point out , i mean ur attitude,u r not into making healthy discussions.... see how u have turned all this into a kind of a war or pangaaa, wutever u call it. well we r having a discussion, a sort of a debate here, let it move on in a pleasant atmosphere... u r perceiving as if i m quarelling with u. no man, not at all. i was just opposing ur views.but u got mad at me n decided to leave it, dont do that...put forth ur views, surely they will be welcomed. all i say is that u shud not use "shit" sort of words for her. n tell me onething ..u say mein samjha yahan kuch acha ho ga. how do u define this 'acha", does it go like this:views against benazir=something "acha"????????

Ali

Riya

Mehreen

Yousaf

Mustafa

Chu chi

@ali 3/4/2005 5:51 AM well i wud like to say sumthin on some of the points u wrote. @no1. well benazir has already clarified that she doesnot own the surrey palace.its just the media propaganda against her. @no3.isnt it high time somebody starts caring about the other three provices of pakistan.and not just concentrating their efforts on punjab. @no4.well i also respect her cuz she is the daughter of a great leader and i dont think there is anything wrong in it. it's like father like daughter. @no6.u said that she shud come to pakistan and shud go to the jail and sacrifice and blah blah blah.its easy saying than doing mr ali.i must remind u that she has spent the best part of her life in jail.isnt that sacrifice enuff.i'd like to see what u wud do in a situation like benazir's. and i do think that if not anything else u shud respect her as a women.that shit business is really gross. Leadership in Daughter ! 3/4/2005 1:59 PM Interview was gr8 and now I can feel his father Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the Man of dignity, The Man of Dedication & Man of Devotion. The real leader in the history of Pakistan. Leadership was God gifted to him. The newspapers of last 1 month, that the next Government most probably comes to PPP. Lets hope for best. But we pray who ever comes for the Country Management, should took this country towards development in all sectors. AAMIN. If there was someone.... 3/4/2005 9:16 PM in the entire PPP who was sincere with Pakistan it was only Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. The people who are using his name to advance are honestly pieces of SHIT in comparison to him. Benazirs way of dealing with issues in comparison to her dad is to compare Apples and Oranges. Benazir, Zardari, Murtaza Even Nusrat i just think these guys are just cashing Bhuttos Death. AND THATS A SHAME FOR OUR IGNORANT PEOPLE TO BLINDLY FOLLOW THESE MANIACS...Last but not Least try being liberal in politics as thats the only reason for Pakistans Existence on the World Map. 3/6/2005 2:20 PM yaar she waz a student of howarrd n oxford n she waz the of both universities n she knowz how 2 takle ppl aur interview iz a not difficult task 4 her.its her routine.atleast interview diena ous k liay masla nahin hai y bb is better!! 3/8/2005 9:27 AM as far as the fact tht a military dicator doing good not done by an elected govt, is concerned ......lemme remind u .. tht the first package for karachi was announced by the peoples party govt in end of 1995.. including th karimabad flyover... the flyover at ftc which just finished... the one at shah faisal colony... the lyari expressway... the repair of rashid minhas bridge.. the nipa flyover... the bridge at drigh road... these all were part of tht package... the new govt as a matter of fact has done nothing new but to only implement wht was planned by the then ppp govt... n for those who say tht ke y dint ppp complete the projects .. tou there is a pre-project analysis... where load bearing test for the soil is done.. n it takes time n their govt was removed by oct 96 (correct me if i m wrong) y benazir is gud n others are b**tards.. is coz... baad waloon ne paisay banayeeyy.... remember the hole at the drigh road bridge... n remember the potholes at karimabad flyover... n the only reason they had to stay on with the projects was.. of the fact tht as per the contracts made during the ppp govt... the Govtof Pakistan had to pay 75% of the amount whether the project was carried out or not... so they had to carry them out... warna ye paisa bhi pehlay walay ki tarha lahore mein lagta... oh Lord.. forgive them.. coz they hear not they see not n they say not!! y ppp deserves to be in power!!! 3/8/2005 9:35 AM PPP is still the only party representing the masses of Pakistan..... the last polll conducted by the military dictator... indicated ... tht peoples party had a good 63% of total casted votes... in the last election...

Ibrahim

Ibrahim

n y they are not in power... coz every time a dictator comes in he .... to play his power politics... changes the total number of seats of the assembly .... rmember wht zia did after bhutto... remember wht musharraf did after nawaz!!! we have such a true democracy in our country tht 63% represent only 18 seats... THIS IS THE STATE OF OUR DEMOCRACY... meaning tht those 63% ppl are not considered worth having an opinion...... PATHETIC!!! --- A SHAM DEMOCRACY!! 3/8/2005 9:36 AM ye but, atleast we're still breathing.

S ibrahim 3/8/2005 9:42 AM and the others arent bastards, as u described them. theyre all the same. maybe not like me, but certainly like u. they normally do what u just did. mixed everything up, hardly made any sense, and ..still dont understand what pakistan needs. byee

S y she referred to liaquat ali's son!! 3/8/2005 9:43 AM she did not refer to liaquat ali's son coz he was son of a PM... but because.. he was killed coz he had started an investigation on a scam regarding arms buying scam of our beloved army.... and so our first prime minister was shot dead... in the city of rawalpindi... and his son inspite of all power given from the people could not get the case to be heard in court... till date!! our armed forces... hv by and large... most of the times carried out directly or indirectly... political murders... remember how ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO died.... tried and hanged for Ibrahim 1) a crime he dint commit in person... 2) the person killed for whom the case was being fought was not a direct hinderance in his agenda... the only reason the army dint want him was because they dint want a check on themselves... which was the FEDERAL SECURITY FORCE!! Dear Mr. S 3/8/2005 9:51 AM samajh mein nahin aye ga aap ki... agar hum loagoon ki samajh mein aata tou shayad mulk ka ye haal na hota as far as corruption is concerned... alll r corrupt ... but then u hv to choose the better of two evils!! Ibrahim so a person who brings in progress is better!! and had her govt stayed longer... we wud hv been in a better position... Dear Mr. S (Part 2) 3/8/2005 9:59 AM "...theyre all the same. maybe not like me, but certainly like u..." u arnt n i am... yet u r shy to use ur full name ?? y?? Ibrahim AMAZING!!

ibrahim 3/8/2005 10:36 AM it was unfortunate for u that benazir had her govt dismissed by the president...leghari..her one time friend and 'brother.' and he wasnt a military officer either. yes, we should all learn from ZAB's demise, and make sure it doesnt happen again. he had a good mind. -even though the cities of lahore, karachi and hyderabad had spiralled out of control in their discontent with him. but lets not get into that.. uve just admitted 'all are corrupt' and decided that u have to chose the lesser of two evils. thats wierd. but then again, uve only ever read two books, right? hmm. yea.. ibrahim, benazir had two chances in power. she didnt do wonders. and Pakistan is not crying for her, although it mightve cried because of her. she's been in self-imposed exile for a while, and its difficult to see what leadership she has given both her party and people in the last few years. what is beyond debate here, however, it the fact that until now, president musharraf has managed to sustain more stability in pakistan since 1999 than both short-lived admins of PPP and PML (twice). so, if it is going to be that ure forced to chose the lesser of two evils, why not just stick with Mr Musharraf who's being transparent, consistent, open, logical and positive about our furture. And, irronically, democracy as well. democracy will come to pakistan in due time, but timing is crucial. we should find the right momentum of economic and social progress before new elections. if they come too early, they'll just hinder the fruition of the new policies,reforms and development projects initiated in the last 4-5 years. we should be content and happy with the current govt. its done good for pakistan. so lets work with it, as opposed to against it. and, ibrahim, when i said "...theyre all the same. maybe not like me, but certainly like u..." i dont think u understood. i was comparing u to the very ppl u called 'Ba*****s' ..although i did not agree they should be labelled as such. lets change our mindset. that will change everything. for the better 3/8/2005 10:40 AM anyway, theres no chance for benazir with shahbaz around! trust me. he`ll b PM by 2009.

S

S 3/8/2005 7:16 PM It was just an interview, there is no need to make an issue out of it. Imran Khan is very out spoken so should we make him the Prime Minister just because of that? Altaf Hussain is becoming quite popular because of his emotional rhetoric among the nationalist leaders so should we make him President just because of that? Shujaat and S have aptly said that She was given her chances but I am sorry to say she was an utter failure, not even a shadow of her dad. We should never support someone because his/her dad was a great leader. By the way, I am surprised that people are making such merry out of a good interview and nobody has talked about Jawed Hashmi( I was never a PML-N fan and still not one of their fans). I believe what he is doing is simply great, single handedly taking on the whole army even though he was afford a lot in return if he forgoes his position. Do the people in this community know that the letter on which Jawed Hashmi is waging a war on army was brought to him by a female PPP MNA(Source:Hamid Mir)? What was the reason that she did not go to Amin Fahim or Asif Zardari with that letter?......interesting thought! I salute that guy who is imprisoned by ISI under tough conditions and who is not spending his time in Agha Khan University Hospital(=Five Star Hotel) like Asif Zardari. 3/8/2005 11:39 PM I totally agress with you Mujji what Javed Hashmi is doing only a man of character can do this thing i didnt like him rather didnt think him as a leader but now i really admire him as the only leader in Pakistan we has his own idealogy and withstand with it in any circumstances... TCares Ali 3/9/2005 9:59 AM Read this - it will show the true colors of BB (the second B does not stand for Bhutto). http://www.dawn.com/2005/03/09/top5.htm Farhan What a characterless bitch! She even called for US action against the Musharraff government during the hieght of the Afghanistan operations. I'm sorry to demean myself and condescend

Mujji

Raja

Hassan

Mujji

to her level of rhetoric - but the word is just sooo made for her. 3/10/2005 3:35 AM i have great respects for zulfiqar ali bhutti but benazir is nothin but another manipulating politician... i dont belog to any party and i think no party is worth it but im amazed at how u ppl. admire her foe destroying pakistans economy the world knows what zardari (mr10%)earned and how. she has done nothing at all while sittin in the corridors of power.. leave the time when she was in power but when she has not been she went mad giving such statements that r against the country itself and her statements about the dupatta ..... and what do u say about the interview she literally ran away as she had no bloody answer to the wuestion of murtaza's death.. the guy who conducted the interview was excellent and she couldnt help but runninng away i again say that bhutto was a great leader but his daughter is just nothing absolutely useless 3/10/2005 7:24 AM Yaaar when I joined this community I also used to post articles like this and I was livid when I saw this article but I believe there is no use arguing with some people about her because they regard her as high as a Goddess but still I believe we should continue our efforts in showing her true face to the World. She even stated that OBL is hidding in the Presidency just after 9/11 and when the American media investigated about the authenticity of that statement, she just said that was a joke. 3/12/2005 8:43 PM well that was a joke. but only if u can take it.

Mehreen imagine 3/21/2005 12:53 PM i wuz thinking wen i saw tht interview had tht bewakoof any idea who he wuz speaking to wen he lost control of himself he wudnt hav even raised his eyebrow in front if her.but then i thot had bhutto sahab been there instead of benazir he wud hav held the guy by his collar nd thrashed him into nonexistence for not behaving decently. Superb interview... 3/22/2005 2:24 AM I really liked her interview it was awesome the way that man was blaming her 4 Murtaza's murder man she really did good i am proud of my aunty... luv her

Khizer

Agha Fahad She rulzzz 3/24/2005 8:45 PM I didnt see the interview as we dont get the channel GEO here but I love her n she rocks n rulzzz. Sara Hell0 3/25/2005 1:13 PM Actually da thing is dat, dese interviewers think dat every person whom they interview is like Faisal saleh hayat dat he can`t even speak, which is infact wrong but TOTALLY WRONG. Benazir Bhutto sahiba belongs to a Family of Giant Minds and its so easy 4 her 2 handle people like dat as like breaking a tooth pick!!!! 3/25/2005 8:30 PM dude i think shes such a drama queen,shes adroit in manipulating the whole situatation to her advantage and thats exactly how shes has managed to generate empathy from the people,who of course turn to jelly at the sight of "her highness" the one and only queen of the hearts of the people of this country who r so ready to forgive n forget that i think america should not make a public display of occupying this land too. 3/27/2005 1:44 AM Respected Mehreen What else are you expecting from bhutto family? They are born politicians ma'm. The only true politician of Pakistan. She has great great temperament and many other qualities which

PrIncE

Aziz H.

any politician need. Haven't you seen any interview of her on BBC and CNN. Haven't you seen her Lawry King apperance? And her face was simply flat in it. She really is awesome. We really need few politician like her. Adios Amiga. 3/27/2005 8:48 AM Who need enemies with politicians like that!?! Mujji 3/30/2005 12:08 PM I am actually surprised that this topic still continues... I dont want to waste my energy on such a useless debate...and I wud advise u mujji not to do that either. What i earlier said was enuff.. she was a good debator in her college time .. so giving interviews is not difficult for her.. but abt being a politician... i m sorry i cant even think of calling her a politician.. whatever she got was just coz ppl luvd her father

Usman

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=12798305&start=1 topic: Does Mussharraf deserve to govern the country? Does Mussharraf deserve to govern the country? 5/28/2005 10:30 PM do u think that Mussharraf does deserve to govern the country? i wud say...NO WAY! he stepped in illegally (the '73 constitution clarifies this) Anum ans: 5/29/2005 4:11 AM well i believe non the army General cld run the govt: or are worth deserving to b the administrators..coz economically it affectz the country and put a gr8 flaw in the relations of a country..! India inspite of being in inadequate political conditions never allow their army to take over..but unfortune prevails here!!!.. and the second reason anum mentioned! @anum n Rude!! 5/31/2005 6:08 AM well i think musharraf neva deserved the government.But islam n quran says that it will impose the leaders according to the condition nations...... So n e thing can happen here!!n thats a fact!!but one thing i shud say in his duration ......lots n lots of bombings,killings, because he tried to stop all as a rezult they became resistant!! so there shud be no army NO WAYY!!!!to rule the country!!n musharraf neva deserved the Govt. sorry to say Mr.President:) if not musharraf then who 6/4/2005 6:07 AM who do u think after 911 could take stand and control pakistan and ppl pakistans economy isnt doing that bad also most politicains have used india ( kashmir to further there political cause musharraf has done a great step mending good terms with india this is a step forward and i have only seen such steps since mushi has come to power for some reason pakistans democracy has been a joke more of a feudal democracy at least now u have to be educated enough to run in an election .....Who do u think would be good to govern as a leader if not musharraf in this time frame wot can u do even if u don't accept him 8/12/2005 4:52 PM well i think wot the hell u r talking about...Governing? He is a traitor he does'nt deserve to stay in PAkistan even.....Anyone else but not an bloody Army General(bloody cause it has always worked against the national interest) 8/12/2005 9:21 PM Yeah, sure thing, the Army does not deserve at all to govern the land of the pure but it was your very own Benazir Bhutto who applauded and appreciated General Musharaf for over throwing the democratic Government of Mr Sharif, how would you explain her betrayal of democracy and constitution? 8/12/2005 9:27 PM HE DESERVES TO BE COURT MARSHALED FOR BREAKING HIS OATH OF OFFICE.

Rude^

HAsHiR

Ammar

Waqas

Mujji

Syed 8/14/2005 11:03 AM only court marshalled??!

Ayesha Hell NO !!! 8/14/2005 9:51 PM Musharaf or any other army leader has no right to govern the country. Free and Fair elections are the only solution to the problems facing Pakistan. Even if people make mistakes in electing their rulers once, they will not make the same mistake again, tht is only if democracy is revived in its true spirit and polls are not rigged, Opposition candidates not asasinated ! Ashhar

8/14/2005 10:40 PM And also deserves to be tried under Article 6 of the 73 constitution.

Syed 8/15/2005 5:57 AM well peple pakisat is based on the democracy n dis MUSHARAF is not the elected president.so how he can stand as president of pk.the only way is dat there shoiul b peoplez govt.not hould me one man show....sme members r sayin in their posts dat there is no leader these dayz who can rulew.i must say dat there r only AWAMI leaders who can won the hearts of public not these kings party leaders.just like muslim league(q)....... Shah wat r u talking abt is this a question hell no!!!! 8/15/2005 9:30 AM he deserves to run nothing he is a army general his job is to defend this country not hijack it ok.so he shuld be court martialed. Syed Ali 8/15/2005 1:33 PM MUSHARRAF IS HUNGRY FOR POWER!

Ayesha 8/15/2005 3:50 PM i believe in democracy 'n so many of u here do too,i have a solution.. First,cross ur fingers...now,i guess it won't be too long b4 history of an army general repeating itself... KABOOM!!!!!lol don't get pissed ppl,just tryin'to use humour to calm myself from mushi-bashing!!! time has always shown us,to expect the unexpected!!! u never know,what 2morrow brings!!! 8/17/2005 6:19 AM Why I wrote the last posts, I should clarify this and share my thoughts with the young friends. Initially when Musharaf took over he showed to the nation a very honest face and charming personality. Ranging from Jamal Nasir to Hochi Minh there have been dictators in the recent history, who have been able to change the entire fabric of their respective nations for good. We are a nation composed of different cultures and nationalities. For different cultures to live together there needs to be a binding agreement. 1973 constitution provides such a binding force. If one individual or a group tries to make that very book questionable he is not a friend of this country. Had there been an agreed constitution in 1971 with civilian setup our country would still be one. If a dictator acts with his dedicated team to reform a nation amongst from his own kind he can be successful half hearted measures always result in disaster. Take the example of Attaturk, when he took over he devised a program that without changing things he will not be able to transform his society into a modern one. He abolished every thing old even to the extent of dress and the script of his language. And implemented the new with force and harsh punishments, the quality of implementation was such that an announcement in the evening would bring out all the mullahs clean shaven with women’s bonnet on their head the next morning. What Musharaf has done is maintaining the status co, collected the most corrupt of the elements from the society for that, given absolute free hand to the exploiters to loot the common people. His policies have resulted in increasing the polarization in our society. As per Hamood report what Ayubs era caused for the formation of Bangladesh the present setup is following the exact foot steps. With out implementing the true law in its true spirit we will be now where in future. I THINK............... 8/18/2005 10:25 AM its not the question that he entered in the government illegally......and the answer of ur question is YES MUSHARAF DESERVES TO GOVERN PAKISTAN......I CAN EXPLAIN BUT

Nässer

Syed

~ εфф~

ITS NOT THE PART OF ANSWER SO I LEAVE HERE ............BYE 8/18/2005 10:31 AM i agree wid Mr. Jaffer musharraf should be court marshalled...

Haider

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Topic http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=2450556900700769831&na=1&nst=1 topic: MUSHARAF...BLAME ZULFIQAR THAT!!! .... 2/28/2006 11:26 AM Musharaf sahib Blame Bhutoo that hez responsible for partition of Bangladesh!!??

Kashif 2/28/2006 6:02 PM any news source?

Insanity 2/28/2006 10:54 PM the same Bhutto did with Gen. of that time but the fact is if Bhutto would be the reason M.Rehman Commission Report would have been released in the Zia period....i was not born when bhutto was assacinated but i love him bc of his atire and image he created .....we r least concerned what bhutto did wrong because we have alteast some reason to be proud of our past as nation only because of Bhutto....he was a leader the rest Drama..... 2/28/2006 11:11 PM (In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.) I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to Pakistan and uphold the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan which embodies the will of the people, that I will not engage myself in any political activities whatsoever and that I will honestly and faithfully serve Pakistan in the Pakistan Army (or Navy or Air Force) as required by and under the law. May Allah Almighty help and guide me (A'meen). Musharraf took this Oath of office at the time of his appointment. It is in the Constitution of Pakistan, [Article 244] under title Third schedule, Oath of office, Member of the armed forces. Article 6 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. (1) Any person who abrogates or attempts or conspires to abrogate, subverts or attempts or conspires to subvert the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason. (2) Any person aiding or abetting the acts mentioned in clause (1) shall likewise be guilty of high treason. (3) [Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] shall by law provide for the punishment of persons found guilty of high treason. Please go through the link and if possible read the Hamood Commission Report. 3/1/2006 1:35 AM I was a scout in my primary school days. A scout takes an oath; I was taught to recall it at the start of every action of mine. It may seem to the young ones a bit funny, that’s how we were brought up. None of us these days consider the sanctity of an oath before taking an action against it, none of us has that education now; only Bhutto did. I was taught in school and home that it is your duty before any thing else to abide by the law. If you don’t like the law, my father used to say, have the courage to change it by legal means. Syed I am a layman as far as the law is concerned, but I know that you cannot take the word of a person if he is accused of a crime. A common soldier if deserts the army and takes a civilian job he is taken as an absconder and court marshaled, why not a general. We live in a lawless land it is mockery. If the top most person in a society does not honor his oath of office no one below him will. Please learn to obey the law of the land otherwise every thing will be doomed.

Israr

Syed

.... 3/1/2006 2:59 AM Well!! The Question is Had he not annoucned partition of Bangladesh? Kashif 3/1/2006 3:21 AM No he did not. He never had any authority or the opportunity to do so. Major Ziaur Rahman of east Bengal Rifles and Tajuddin Ahmed of Mukti Bahini were the ones who made the formal announcement and formed the government in exile of Bangladesh in Calcutta. Syed .... 3/1/2006 11:42 AM |n Lahora JALSA.. Had he not Released the Mujeeb-ur-rehmen?? Had he not annouced the Partition of bangal!!?? R these Not the words..." ""Wo wahan Khush ..Hum yahan Khush""?? 3/1/2006 12:14 PM Check out the following link East Pakistan:The end game Kausar Niazi in the Bhutto Cabinet was considered to be from the Military lobby. 3/1/2006 11:09 PM bhutto ney east pakistan elahda nai kiya tha balkey gn niazi ko jab wahan bheeja geya to usney airport per utartey saath eik beyan diya or woh yeh tha we need land not man iss ka kya maqsaad tha aap ki east pakistan army ki wajah sey elahda hua tha janab iss beya nkey baad aap key bangali bhai hamarey khalaf hogey iss wajah sey yaahn sey india mar rai thi wahan sey bangali aab lagi samjh kaam kahan sey kharab hua hai ...

Kashif

Syed

Bunti

.... 3/2/2006 1:07 PM | want some facts here!!... I have heard that Bhutto Had released Mujeeb from jail??? Is it true...? Kashif .... 3/4/2006 11:14 AM No onE?

Kashif 3/4/2006 5:30 PM He released him that is right, and it was the right thing to do. The worst punishment you can impose on a nation is, deprive that nation of its leadership. The statement he made after the release was. I met Mujeeb last night we discussed the present situation in detail. I have tried to convince him that we can pardon each other, I believe in one Pakistan. Bengalis need him. I have trusted him and left every thing on his conscious. 3/5/2006 12:13 PM musharraf has said this because of zulfi bhutto army failed to win the hearts of people

Syed

[<GUN1t>]Shobi

Suleman

TO KASHIF................. 3/6/2006 8:41 AM what r u trying to prove by mentioning that bhutto released mujiburahman...........ya he released him as it was the need of time.this thing doesnt prove that he was the main character in the partition of pakistan...... Had he not annouced the Partition of bangal!!??

Kashif

R these Not the words..." ""Wo wahan Khush ..Hum yahan Khush""?? he had never given this statement....this was only a misunderstandingand rumour spread by militiary propaganda machinery......he asked GEN NIAZI many timez not to begin military action but he commited this blunder 25th march......bhutto was so depressed by this action but he did not quit.he went to UN and try to save his country but it waz too late then..Ny wayz if u have any other point in ur mind i can satisfy u. .... 3/6/2006 12:02 PM @ Suleman!!! No Worries!!No Fightings Buddy!! | juzz want to study the case!!..And..Well I knew Many things!! I have also heard that Army feltdown bcoz..of his..Late speech!! 1 day Late!!! Now Look I dut Blame!! Him...But Juzz..Trying to Digout Things.

Community Zulfikar Ali Bhutto http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=2422523380732810597&start=11&na=3&nid=18 7664-2422523380732810597-2426625555532541528
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topic: WHHT BAD THINGS HAVE U HEARD ABT ZULFIKAR ALI
T T

Mehak
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Adeel
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Umer
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WHHT BAD THINGS HAVE U HEARD ABT ZULFIKAR ALI 9/30/2005 10:15 AM PLZ WRITE IN N TEL ME WHT BAD VIEWS HAVE U HEARD ABT ZULFIKAR ALI BHUTTO FROM UR FRNDZ N OTHER RELATIVES He was a pure leader.. 9/30/2005 11:17 AM To be very honest, Whom so ever I discussed about Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, the reply was positive. Everyone admits that he was the only person in the entire Political History of Pakistan, who had the qualities of Leadership. He never bowed in front of brutality but preferred to secrifice his life. I am afraid that This National Won't Ever get a leader like Bhutto. 9/30/2005 12:17 PM lemmi b very truthfull..... ihvent heard bad thinz abt bhutto di gr8 frm others ....but wat ive noticed and felt after reading books colums and other thin ....i feel dat he waz a very emotional person.....infact i wud say over emotional..... 10/1/2005 3:30 AM Let some one come up with some thing undesirable about Bhutto then I will write to defend.

Syed
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10/1/2005 3:40 AM i think all the controversies regarding Z.A. Bhutto had been mentioned and well defended. And now no one dares to speak up=) Ayesha
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Here we go! 10/1/2005 5:24 PM First of all, I'll like to state that I know Zulfi was the best thing that happened to Pakistani Politics( Yeah, I also think Jinnah was never part of Pakistani Politics except for the first year or so) but like all mortals he had his shortcomings and I 'll like to point out that. 1. Bhutto was a splendid sycophant at the start of his political career. He exhibited his art of sycophancy greatly when he was working under General Ayub and Iskander Mirza. Many great people in human history have been sycophants but still it does not justify being a sycophant, does it? so, I believe Bhutto was a great sycophant! 2. Bhutto grew arrogant and snobbish with the passage of time. Roedad Khan and Ahmed Faraz state that power got to his head and that was one of the major reason that he lost popularity and loyalty. It also led Bhutto to politically victimize his opponents and old friends. 3. Bhutto loved his sycophant friends and did not do anything about the injustices they committed against the people. Prime example being Mustafa Khar, who ran abroad as soon as Bhutto was removed from power. On the other hand, he sidelined his close and loyal friends. 4. Bhutto played a minor role in the separation of Bangladesh. Instead of stressing about getting large share in the power structure, he could have left his potential large share in the political structure for the sake of Pakistan and our Bengali brothers. 5. Bhutto had the perfect opportunity to make Army accountable for the loss of Bangladesh and end their role in the Pakistani politics once and for all but he didn't do anything about that. I know answers to some of these questions but still these are debatable points. Looking forward to the arguements of Syed Sahab. Regards Shahneel! Partial defects 10/10/2005 12:46 AM I feel myselft a fan more than any one can in the world regarding to Z.A Bhutto. What a leader he was, elquent, intelligent, energatic in crutial times, flourished with diplomatic skills, Glorious

Mujji
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MURAD ALI KHAN
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Pubic relashing ablities, btilliant political mind and a great speaker. But the best thing I have learnt about him is that he was the greatest patriot of Pakistan, No, A man mad for his country. He had the courage to snatch sight by one who had bad views about Pakistan. But as far as his defects are concern, Many are regarding to his private life, mostly the religious sectors used to raise the objections about his life, like he was a chain drinker. But these things are not worthy to be even considered. He is often critisized for Nationalizing the industries of Pakistan, and this movement is so called a factor for a decline in industial improvement in Pakistan. I am over ruling the objection because there were no personal interest envolved in making the decision, It was all following the pledge he had made with the people of pakisan, that of food, clothe and shelter. And I think if he was allowed to carry on his movement he would have created a better pakistan for specially for the poors to whome bread is a question of life and death today. He was exactly following the motive of PPP. Islam is our faith, Democracy is our Policy and Socialism our economy. 10/10/2005 4:51 AM @ Mujji I just saw the thread and your post. Although I am in Karachi far away for the northern areas, can’t just feel like writing. Some of the required answers were answered on different threads where you are also there. I will answer them I need some time, please be patient. 10/10/2005 11:31 AM No Doubt that he was a great leader but he used to opress his opponents. he three vocal PPP MNAs Rana Mukhtar and two others deseated and got them involved in fake criminal cases. it was famous line

Syed
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Rana
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LARKANA CHALO WARNA JAIL CHOALO in total agreement with Shahneel. 10/10/2005 7:21 PM @ murad very few people actually care & comment on Bhutto's private life though i believe a leader's private life has a lot to do with his public life but lets leave that aside for a while. The real objection & criticism has been pointed out very clearly & comprehensively by 'mujji', try to address and defend the same please.

@ ZAB's fans Another thing, you people try to portray ZAB as some great HERO & a PICTURE PERFECT sort of a politician which he certainly wasnt, i mean, yes, he was better than the rest and ofcourse a better choice but then, frankly, "WHAT CHOICE DID WE HAVE?!" so, it makes me wonder whether it was a popular support or lack of choice?! Fatima
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Anyway, i would like to share a quote: "BARREN IS THE LAND WHICH DO NOT HAVE HERO'S" In reply: "BARREN IS THE LAND WHICH NEEDS HERO'S"

@ Uncle Syed you are right about "not feel like" thing, really, the situation is very depressing. Im just trying to divert my attention from it for sometime but i admit its just not possible.

Cathrine
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about ZA Bhutto 10/10/2005 10:35 PM 786 Bhutto was a very genius and capable man this kind of man born after many ages ...we were lucky to such a nice person as our leader but now we are un lucky 2 loose him.....he was a great politician. his name will alwys written in golden words in history of pakistan.

MURAD ALI KHAN
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Shehzada
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Raza
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@Mujjii 10/12/2005 12:24 AM Not about all queries but I try to answer a few. 1- Bhutto has no role at all in the dismemberment and deintegration of Pakistan. The all unpardonable blunder he is trialed to make was that he denied to attend the Dacca session of National Assembly. But let me make it clear that he was totally fair in his decission to denie. Whay ?????? I think you are well informed about Mujib's six points, totally leading to secession and isolation of Bangladesh. So Butto was optimistic for Composite Dialogues and Negociations between Awami League, PPP and the Ruling Junta on six points. Because had he let the session started it ulternately ment a gradual dismemberment because Mujeeb-ulRehman has won 160 out of 162 seats from East Pakistan, and could have passed the resolution of six points with quite ease. 2- He played every possible roll in re-organizing and re-motivating the Army, but He had other Herculain tasks to be done with his first priority Like the Architecture of Constitution, which he did with his full efficiency. regarding my hero 10/12/2005 12:44 AM well ive read ur pplz comments about ZB...I admit that he had shortcomings n fallacies like all other politicians n men have but no one is perfect in this world...I was reading a book written by khalid chaudry(siasat dano k muashqay)in which he has criticised bhutto n has mentioned his scandals of youth...but it has not made his image bad in my mind,it has even brought me closer to him...it is his personal life..n a leader is questionable 4 his policies n decisions infront of a nation...no one should point fingers on his personal life..overall bhutto was a visionary,geneous,God gifted,far sighted n sincere politician. 10/12/2005 12:58 AM well i dun agree with Fatima here, ppl chose bhutto not because there was a dearth of leaders in pakistan, there were ppl like wali khan, mufti mehmood, GM syed, professor ghafoor, asghar khan, but no one actually appealed to the masses as much as bhutto, now for qualities, to b very honest i have heard both positive and negative things abt the man, his decision of nationalization is highly despised by ppl and there are many things where ppl i feel he could have done better. But one thing is for sure in Bhutto's time Pakistan had more friends in the international world than enemies. 10/13/2005 8:11 PM Sorry for the late reply but I was busy with earth quake funds collection and I am going to be very brief as well. Bhutto always talked about democracy and the power of the people then if the party which was democratically elected, Awami League, wanted greater autonomy then what was wrong with that? They wanted more share from jute export and a separate regiment for Bengalis, which were fully justified. There are many Countries where the provinces form a lose confederation and they are quite well developed, the prime examples being Canada and United Kingdom. Another thing, what was a greater tragedy? The fall of Dhaka or the murder of around 1 Million( according to independent agencies) bengali brothers by Pakistan Army( Pakistan Army says it killed just over 100000 bengalis while bengalis say Pakistan Amy killed more than 2 million people, both the figures are preposterous). For me the genocide which was carried out by the Pakistani Army in Bangladesh is the bigger tragedy! There is joke in Pakistan Army that after Dhaka Fall the average height of Bengalis increased by two inches! I think You know what I mean??(Just count the number of rapes that were carried out by Pakistan Army over there and you will get the joke)Bhutto knew very well about these inhuman acts of Army but he still supported the Army and even boosted in the Security Council that we'll fight for 1000 years although he knew very well at that time that we have lost it! I'm not saying that he murdered or raped Bengalis but he could have supported them and stood against the Army instead he sided with the Army against the democratically elected party of Awami League! Your second point is that Bhutto spent his whole tenure (71-77, six long years) in drafting the constitution. Well, the constitution was a great achievement but it was drafted in 1972-73 and even that gave a lot of leverage to the Army! You will ask how come?!? Well, that constitution reduced the role to just a figure head and his President was popularly known as (Contd) 10/13/2005 8:31 PM (Contd)....was known as the "Rubber Stamp President" and that exactly is the reason that General Zia put forward when he removed Bhutto from the office that it was a "National Political Crisis" and nobody else could have done anything about that except the Army. Actually, Zulfi Bhutto wanted to keep the Army tamed that is why he never mentioned the atrocities of Bangladesh and appointed the great sycophant Zia as the Chief of Amy although there were many people who were more competent and experienced than Zia but he wanted an Army Chief who keeps on praising him. As I was saying that the constitution was drafted

Mujji
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Mujji
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by 1973 so he still had 4 long years to make Army accountable for all its atrocities but he never did that. You know what General Yahya Khan ,General Tikka Khan and General Niazi were laid to rest with complete military honour and medals that they had recieved while Bhutto was hanged till death! I have written these points in a hurry so if I missed to answer any of your points or if you have any other objections then do mention that, I 'll answer them later. Regards Shahneel! @Fatima….. 10/20/2005 9:54 PM It is cruel to dig the private life of a devoted leader. He had very few moments for himself and his private life during his peak time. Mr. Bhutto had charisma and could attract men and women alike. I personally would not want my leader with a disorganized beard, shalwar above the ankles, Kurta below the knees, towel on the shoulder, miswak in the pocket and gazing women through the corner of his eyes. Please check the following post if you have time. http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=187664&tid=20282771&start=1
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Syed
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What I want to show is that he used to stay in the office as late as 3 o clock in the morning working and reading different files and reports. He would not loose his touch of humor means he would not feel tired and board of the work: his dedication. May you all follow him and become great. Mujjis post is very important, no doubt. It needs point by point treatment and answers. I have replied all these questions on different topics on different communities. I am trying to find time to search out the links so that I may paste those here. I unfortunately got deleted a number of posts by me which were against Mushi and contained pro Bhutto material from the community Pakistan http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=5167 .
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ATI
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As far as the grim situation regarding the quake, the scars are on the whole generation and will require a generation to heal. jiye bhuttooooooo 10/22/2005 6:28 AM mujhe ziada pata nahi lakin meri tarah se SYED sir aur FATIMA aunty jawab de rahi hai .... All the best Sir & aunty mai totally inke sath ho inko support karo ga .... king bhutto 10/22/2005 12:41 PM i study abt life of zulfikar ali bhutto i dont think so he heard me , bhutto was great presnolity in asia , i appreciate with syed uncle .

Mustafa laghari
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Great Bhutto 10/22/2005 12:53 PM bhutto was greatleader he fight his all life for fredom of poor people and @ he gives us right way of freedom , zulfikar ali bhutto introduced democrecy in pakistan

Mustafa laghari
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.. 10/23/2005 1:33 PM yeah i hav heard and read many things about bhotto(good and bad). he was a good and intelligent leader,no doubt,in the begining. he was one of the four great muslim leaders,who had a secret meeting in makkah against INSOMNIAC usa,i dont hav time to discuss that,but power ate his loyalty. bye ppl dont hav much time and ignore spell mistakes and grammer. hmm 10/24/2005 9:45 AM well zab no dount he was a great man but i think i note frm abt his histry well his emotions kll him
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Maimoona
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hmm 10/24/2005 9:45 AM well zab no dount he was a great man but i think i note one thing frm abt his histry well his emotions kill him Maimoona
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@ Syed 10/24/2005 12:50 PM well one can not deny bhutto shaib's statemenship, but i wud like to highlight a few points to your attention syed shaib as you are a knowledge able person. The creation of FsF ( feadral security force) this lead to active involvement of the agencies in the main stream politics. Butto attitude with his fellow comrades was not approprite, at one instance his very close associate J.A rahim was beaten by the agencies as he critcized bhutto on ploicy matters Ammar
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Socialism was the ideolgy of PPP and i would like to mention that Dr.Mubbashir hassan (Former.Genral Sec PPP)did a lot to uphold this ideology, but afterwards 1974 pherhaps feudals joined the main stream politics of PPP which is a sad thing. They way he diswoned Khar also raises some eye brows and some people say if bhutto shaid did not isnsult Zia so much in public maybe the hatered wud have been less. gal make good topic abhe saeh plz 10/25/2005 8:42 AM saeh does have any bad thing so no body can say abt him .so i dont heard any bad thing abt saeh zulfikar ali bhutto he was the leader of pakistan and no body take his seat becz Leader u dont creat its god gifted so jeyah bhutto (ghous1) There is only 10/25/2005 1:34 PM There is only 1 bad thing that he was only among us wo always live for other for his nation (He's people champ). i'm not mentioning what's he thought or his plans bcz every 1 knows that. Only due to this reason he was hang out. he is 1 who hang out only for his nation he never accept "Gla Watni" lagharis 10/27/2005 1:47 PM ohh, what can i say abt him, every one should have a friend like him he is such a good preson he crack me up with laughter and touch my heart with his kind ness he has a wonderful ability to when offer advice and when sit in quiet support. i realy do believe everybody should have frind like him.

CH GHOUS1
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Bilal
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Mustafa laghari
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