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My Experience on the Anabolic Diet 01 23

My Experience on the Anabolic Diet 01 23

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My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Yes. To guarantee a good start go the first weekend as normal on the AD.

This will give you 12 days straight to wring every last bit of glycogen out of your hide and then you go 5-5 1/2 days low carb, then 36 hours of food orgy. For mass of course. If you want to cut, then just have a slow dance and some heavy petting. ;-) Example. I start the AD on Monday, June 20th and go until Friday July 1st OR Saturday July 2nd for my carb load. Best scenarios. #1 Standard. Start carbing from Saturday morning until Sunday evening. Give yourself a break before bed Sunday night or you may not sleep well. #2 My current. Start carbing on Friday morning or at lunch and go till Saturday evening. Both ways give you *2* days effectively, but it's really @36 hours. That is a good duration. That is the best way to understand your 2 day load. All day Saturday (from about 8am) and all day Sunday (till about 6pm). DH --The AD is a fun way to eat. During the week I'm eating eggs, steak, bacon, chicken, olive oil, feta cheese, and a multitude of I-talian cheese...along with things like saut. spinach and garlic in olive oil. Then, you can really look forward to that box of cereal or piece of cake on saturday. Oh boy, this is one sweet diet. I thought I would be sluggish, tired, week, and dying for some carbs. I am experiencing the opposite of all of these. Here is a sample of my diet so far today. Meal 1: 1/2 scoop pro powder, six scrambled eggs, 3/4 cup of Cheddar cheese. eight pieces of bacon. 10 fish oil pills,1 liter of water Meal 2: Same as above minus protein powder. Meal 3: Pre workout? two scoops of Power Drive mixed with some strong green tea Meal 4: PWO All you can eat BBQ beef, about 1-11/2 lbs. One huge salad with oil and vinegar. My training partner told me he has never seen anyone eat that much beef in one sitting:) Meal 5:Two Bubba burgers, four pieces of cheese(Swiss, and cheddar), 10 fish oil pills, and two tablespoons of sugar free fiber supp. My next meal will be the same as meal five and I will have some full fat cottage cheese and more fish oil before bed. Today I was kind of lacking in the veggie department, but I will make up for it tomorrow. I have never consumed so much fish oil in my life. Hopefully I won't grow gills:) One more week until carb up, and I could care lees. I love cheese! Joe It IS a sweet ride. Just be aware that you might hit a wall, but tough it out. This makes all the difference. When I first did it, I was feeling like I had the flu by Friday. Few days later and I'm jumping out of the bed in the morn. GF was amazed as I always hated mornings. DH

mdragon, that is a valid point and one that does play into your choice of CHO on the AD. The big one is that starches are broken down into glucose primarily with small amounts of fructose. Glucose preferentially fills the muscle while fructose heads to the liver. Sucrose (table sugar in your sweets) is a dissacharide and has a larger fructose content that will allow the liver to be full faster and then when you begin carb depletion, the liver will continue to spike and drop your blood sugar levels for hours until it is depleted again. Better to focus on filling muscle glycogen stores to the max. Also sucrose and fructose stimulate fat creating enzymes. So keep your loads smart. Have your goodies, but do it after you've consumed quality carbs. You'll feel better, look better, and your appetite won't get you into trouble by driving you to down a gallon of Ben & Jerry's. DH pretty much so. And I too am an all or nothing guy. Really a blessing and a curse isn't it... Seems like your not you're own boss at times. ;-). The AD seems best for this personality type even more. The only time you have to "down shift" is when you walk away from the load on Sat or Sun evening. But it's easy to bear when you know another will be coming soon, and tomorrow morning ... eggs and bacon await. :0. On a standard diet, you have to become too involved for the all or nothing guy. DH Is it possible to due this diet witout eating Pork? I dont have pork in my diet kind like to keep that way but like the sounds of the diet so far! Absolutely! However, how can you give up bacon man? Those crispy, little morsels are one of the things that make this diet so great. In all honesty, pork is the meat I eat the least, aside from bacon and the occasional BBQ ribs (minus the BBQ sauce), and it is not necessary that you consume it either. There are plenty of other low-carb, high-protein foods out there. If I remember correctly, DH himself eats little in the way of pork, although I do know we share the same passion for "those crispy, little morsels". Steak, chicken and fish(Yes, i consider it a meat. Who cares if no one else does!) are my main staples as far as meat goes. So, as far as not wanting to eat pork, don't sweat it man! Thought DH? -BD "Long live the bacon!" Of course! I've done the Anabolic Diet off and on for the past 3 years (currently 5'6", 205, single digit bodyfat), and I generally eat pork no more than once a week. You'll just be eating more chicken, beef, fish, and eggs. As tasty as bacon and eggs are, they don't hold a candle to steak and eggs or a good jerk chicken omelet, IMO. I've actually got a vegetarian friend who follows the Anabolic Diet successfully. Chuck, looks great. Enjoy. And I'm still reeling from finding people on Earth who don't want bacon on the AD.. Stop the Insanity...

I eat plenty of: olive oil, fish oil caps, some Cod liver oil in winter mostly, bacon (entirely unnecessary) steak, pork steak, ground sirloin, ground chuck, chicken breast, whole chicken, eggs, cheese (real not cheese food), real butter, smart balance butter, almonds (raw), raw walnuts, natural peanut butter, heavy whipping cream, cauliflour, brocolli, green beans, onions, mushrooms, romaine lettuce, iceberg lettuce, cream cheese, deli steak, deli turkey, salmon steaks, shrimp, green peppers, cucumbers, red peppers, ceasar salad dressing, ranch salad dressing, mayonnaise, mustard, tomatoes (7g for a full one), every herb and spice on Earth, and much more... Also for our pleasure: Hood low carb milk (choc and whole are my favorites). Low carb fajita shells (minus the fiber, I've found them as low as 5g each to be used for steak and chicken fajitas or a breakfast burrito.) Sugar free jello with some Cool Whip Healthy Life low carb bread (minus fiber leaves 5g per slice. If you are smart AND have ALREADY adapted to the diet you can leave enough CHO from you limit to have a steak and cheese deli sandwich with the veggies and mayo.) Heinz low carb Ketchup (1g per tbsp) Pork Rinds with some low carb salsa is great too. And our good friend Splenda. Use for baking some low carb goodies, for your coffee with the heavy cream, or mix it with your nasty hydrolyzed whey to remove that lovely after vomit/jock strap taste. DH I am going to the store later today and will be buying: eggs-3 dozen cheese, full fat-several blocks,different varieties spam-several cans ham-1 large cream-1 pint sausage-several varieties bacon-3lbs corned beef hash-5 cans steak-as much as I can afford ground beef-as much as I can afford fish-several kinds,3 or 4 lbs a fiber supplement I've already got 12lbs of ground chuck at home, also butter, several cheeses and lunchmeats, some spam, olive oil, and some bacon. Sorry for the mix-up man, those foods above are what I plan on eating. My normal weekly fare consists of such items as: Lean beef, chicken by the truck load, many eggs, bacon or canadian bacon, spinach, broccoli, olive oil, flax meal, green tea, pork, salmon, the occasional lobster, crab or shrimp, red or green leaf lettuce, mixed nuts when I just need a little

something...protein powders, water, cheese (good greek and italian cheese), once in a while some italian lunch meats (procchuito, etc), tuna, and grass fed beef. Now, this weekend included such lovely carb ups as: A box of Fruity Pebbels A PWO shake with 2 scoops of chocolate whey mixed with a box of low fat, sugar free Pastachio pudding...this is good enough to punch someon for. Actually, I look forward to my friday night and saturday PWO shakes because I mix them with various flavors of pudding and they are excellent. I would be remiss if I did not emphasize one more time: PLENTY of fresh veggies. (watch labels) SOME fresh blueberries and strawberries (HIFWAC fruits) High Fiber/water content) 2-3g of DHA/EPA per day PLENTY of monounsat. fat (Olive Oil) PLENTY of fiber (at least 20g daily. Rest of the sat and unsat fat from foods will keep the T levels nice an high. And the big back breaker... COUNT ALL ITEMS THAT YOU PUT IN YOUR MOUTH (no dirty comments) AGAINST YOUR CARB LIMIT. Fiber does NOT count. Want everyone to be healthy. Also it is always smart to have blood work done before the diet and then a while after you've been on. The diet shows great benefit with repect to cholesterol levels (which are beginning to lose importance in the research world) and more importantly triglyceride levels, but CHECK yourself out. Just do it both before and after so that you don't wrongly attribute anything to the diet. Be smart. FYI. Niacin, in the correct dosage, has been touted to drop cholesterol around 25%. DH Check out this link for a more info. wilstar.com/lowcarb/print-hiddencarbs.htm Metamucil has 2g of carbs per serving not counting the fiber. I would still suggest getting the bulk of your fibers from good, fresh veggies, nuts and psyllium hulls. 3/4 cup of walnuts would give you 20g fat, 12g carbs(but you only count 6 grams because 6 of those grams are fiber) and 15g protein - about 600 calories all together. You would then only need to come up with around 19 more grams per day to make up the rest of your fiber. Do a little research on the net to find out the fiber content of various veggies, nuts and seeds and incorporate them into your daily diet. Google carb counter and play with it. You can easily find natural foods to get your daily fiber needs. Good luck! -BD I strongly suggest getting some Flax seeds or Flax Seed meal. Huge fiber, good healthy fats, and even a few g's of protein. Add it to a shake and you won't even taste it.

Also, eat lettuce, spinach, and a few strawberries or blueberries. Eat a big spinach and egg omlet and you'll see how fast the fiber works. If you went from a lot of carbs to under 30 a day, you'll drop some water weight at first. Just keep an eye on the mirror, your measurements and the scale...I think all 3 are needed. Day eight and still going strong. I am down about 10 lbs. It is mostly water and Glycogen, possibly a little fat. I have been eating about 1500 kcals over maintenance, but I appear a little more ripped? I guess it is all the water and glycogen loss, but damn I look good. Waist is shrinking and oblique's look huge :) I have been strong in the gym, which I didn't expect not eating any carbs. I can already tell that this is the diet to get huge and ripped. Four days until carb up and no cravings. I think I found the holy grail:) Joe I felt like I had a near death experience when I hit the wall during my metabolic shift. Seriously. I was lying on the decline bench and just moaned while a friend of mine said those awful words. "You look kinda puny today." She horrified me. It cannot be emphasized enough, this diet will bust your chops at some early point when you finally deplete your glycogen stores. Sooner or later. BUT that is good because it takes this bottoming out to move to the top. Everyone is doing fine. Just keep the cals up. Your body will do two important things: 1) you will force it to alter krebs cycle substrate use to burn fat. 2) you will begin to become more efficient at not only sparing protein but ALSO holding carbs in the muscle. Whatever you give the body in short order, it will attempt to hold onto. Holding water, drink some more. Holding fat, eat some more fat. Eat fewer carbs, teach the body to be stingy with them and tap them only when necessary. You win all the way around. Hang in there, it's worth it. BTW, that day's bench workout never happned. I knew not to push it. That call is up to you, just be aware of this and have some spotters if you are going heavy... VERY important. I'd suggest a few days of active recovery instead. Soon, though, you'll be moving along. DH My supp use is currently: Whey (hydrolyzed, but WPI works too) Use for pre and post meals. Milk protein isolate/WPC combo for genaral use and quick cals. Mixed with olive oil and a few tbsp of heavy whipping cream. Sugar free jello too. *Low-Carb Grow! would be fine here.* Creatine (5g per day to be sure as per Dave Barr. I get a bit more than suggested just to cover bases) Multi nutrient caps Extra Vit. C, E, B's. Fish Oil caps Power Drive (to prevent CNS fatigue and to keep me out of the coffee so much) Some extra minerals such as Zn, Mg. I also experiment with some herbs from time to time. Avena, tongkat, tribulus, etc..

I also like Calcium D-Glucarate for preventing E increases. I'm paranoid about environmental estrogens. Very simple, mostly food based. Very effective. DH If you want to support T-Nation then Low-Carb Grow!, Power Drive, and ZMA would all fit nicely in the above. Adding HOT- ROX, Carbolin 19, or some of the T boosters would be fine too for specific effect/use. zdrax wrote: So just to confirm, when you start the diet, you eat < 30g carbs for 12 days. Carb-up. Then go onto the schedule of 5 days on @ < 30g carbs, 2 carb-up? Is this correct? Can you get away with 1 carb-up day if you're leaning out? Personally, I would do a two day carb-up after the 12 day starting period to replenish the body. After that, tou can get away with a 1 day carb up depending on your body. The Doc recommends staying on the diet as written for a period of time to see how your body is adjusting to the diet, and then you can alter it to your own requirements. If you use very high GI carbs, your carb up will take less time than if you eat low GI carbs. The carb up days are just as important as the low carb days. Without carbing up, you are on the Atkins Diet which is crap for bulking and generally very catabolic. Charles Atlas wrote: Thanks DH, will try to get some more fish oil in there, but I haven't been to costco in a while, so my supply is running low. Today I had: eggs whey protien ,(4X) monterey jack cheese, (2X) pumpkin seed kernals cheddar cheese big spinach salad with much olive oil (3X) pork roast bit of pepperoni How does this look? I realize I'm lacking on the good meats, but I really didn't have any time to cook today. This thread is one of the best ever on the forums. I think some of us should post our daily menu from time to time...kind of keep focus and maybe learn something new to eat. Today I had: 5 eggs, 2 meatballs, 1oz feta, 2 fish oil caps tuna, olive oil, redleaf lettuce Low-Carb Grow! in coffee (c. 24oz) Whey shake, 5 fish oil caps Steak, 2c spinach, olive oil Whey and Low-Carb Grow! shake, flaxmeal About 3/4gallon water 3 glasses iced green tea

Thats pretty lite, but I am usually still full from the weekends on monday. Yesterday in the life of DH: Meal 1: 5 fish caps 5 free range eggs 6 slices bacon 1/2 tomato 1/2 reg mixed w 1/2 decaf. coffee 2tbsp heavy whipping cream 2tsp splenda Meal 2: 6oz deli roast beef 2 slices of colby jack cheese 2 pickle spears 2 tbsp cream cheese 2 sticks celery with natural PB. *Made into meat rolls 12oz low carb chocolate milk Meal 3: 2x 1/3lb angus beef burgers 2 slices american cheese 2 tbsp low carb ketchup 1 large salad: romaine lettuce, radishes, red onions, eggs, frozen peas, and bacon bits. 2 tbsp Ceasar dressing Meal 4: 2 oz Milk protein/WPC mix (50/50) 3tbsp olive oil 2 slim jims 1/2 tomato Pre/during workout. 40g of Hydrolyzed whey with a bit of whey isolate for taste (75/25) Added splenda and sugar free jello. Post workout. 25g Hydro whey (MW 520) 5g creatine 10g of grape juice for a small kick Meal 5: 8oz sirloin tips w/ onions & shrooms Large salad (rest of pre made above) Olive oil and vinegar mix for dressing. 1 cup green beans (cooked in onions and bacon pieces) Meal 6: 1oz of Milk protein/WPC 12oz Hood LC choc. milk 4 oz cottage cheese (full fat) 5 fish caps Hey new AD devotees, Check the second or so message in the thread. Don't say you weren't warned! Stick it

out like Hoss and the guys are saying. Many people give up right here. One good thing to note is that you are on the right track. Feeling this 'dead' is a sign your body is fighting to adapt. In answer to those questions about how long, how much. Basically: 30 grams for 12 days, 2 day free for all (you deserve it)then 5 days 30 grams, 1 or 2 days carb load but not such a free for all. Forget about the hype filled 'net carb' bs. Count whole foods as much as possible. Like the veterans have been saying this diet was conceived before the low carb fad. A real good meat that works for me is 'little smokies' you know little cocktail weiners. Just microwave them and you are good to go. I've had good results with a full 2 day, 48 hr. carb load. Friday night to Sunday night. When cutting for a Bodybuilding Contest I went to a 1 day load for about 5 weeks and just got ripped to the bone. You just have to try it out and even vary the carb loads from time to time. But I can't stress enough to tough it out through the adaptation phase. I've seen many people give up right here. Barry Here is my day two. I had to take up the calories from yesterday's 3000 to 3500 today, and I still felt absolutely starving around 2:30 or 3:00. Tommorow I'll take them up to 4000, but here it is anyhow: Meal 1-7.30(all other meals are 2.5hrs after the previous meal) 4eggs, 2oz chicken breast, 1oz cheddar cheese, big cup of coffee(about 2C). Meal 2 6 hard boiled eggs, 1oz cheddar cheese Meal 3 5oz chicken breast, 3oz raw spinach, 2T olive oil Meal 4 3/4C raw pumpkin seed kernals, 2oz chicken breast Meal 5 1.5oz raw walnuts, 5oz yellow bell pepper, 10 fish oil tabs, 1 scoop of wpi Meal 6 9oz Pork Roast, 3oz Spinach, 1T olive oil, 10 fish oil tabs that's it for today. I'm planning on giving this diet a shot in order to bulk up and gain more lean muscle mass. i was just wondering whether it would be ok to have some veggies with the lunch and dinner meals. --No, as long as you follow what I write below... Does this violate the AD rules? Which are the best low-carb veggies you recommend for this diet, since I want to ingest the maximum greens possible without surpassing the 30g carb barrier. --Spinach, spinach, spinach! Lettuce, the greener the better, some broccoli, tomato,

garlic, some onion, and cucumbers...I'd stay away from corn, potatos, and peas. Also, does Metamucil count as carbs? I think I might have problems with bowel regularity (I already have the tendency to get constipated on "normal" diets) on such a high protein + low fiber diet.. --Forget Metamucil. Start using Flax seeds or Flaxseed meal. I'm sure you've read the benefits of flax oil on this site...the seedmeal gives you the benifits of the EFA's but the added bonus of a good deal of fiber. Add a few tbs to your shakes and, trust me, you'll have no problems with regularity. Thanx for your responses btw ! Broccoli and Green beans are good but be careful as both have roughly 8 grams per cup. Lettuce is good and celery. The constipation is not what you would think on this diet. I eat cheese like it's going out of style and don't have problems. Barry Oh yeah. I've given exercise technique demos at the gym and started to sweat right through my basketball pants. The AD (and all low carb diets) are natural diuretics. (Had somebody ask me once if that was a book by L. Ron Hubbard. Ha!) If I'm not mistaken, something like 1 molecule of glucose carries double it's weight in water with it. Always keep your water up on the AD. In addition water is "anabolic" in a round about kinda way. Without adequate hydration, you cannot operate at your optimum thus decreasing load, volume or density. Any of which will spell sub par results from your training. Best, DH Generally, no. Eat to taste, gents. That being said, I like mine about 85% or so. Of course my Bubba Burgers (Black Angus) from Walmart have a whoppin' 38g of fat per patty (before cooking). Just keep the good fats, and veggies up. Be sure to take extra nutrients such as vitamin B, C, E, and some minerals just to prevent any deficiencies. Veggies and some fruit should cover most of this. As I've said: before and after blood work is always a good idea on any new diet. Especially for anyone in their 30's or above. DH Last night I started my Carb load. Two whoppers from burger king, water and a few french fries at 6pm. Pasta, red sauce and chicken at about 8pm. This morning Oatmeal and blueberries. I'm feeling good other than having crappy sleep because my daughter is sick and teething at the same time. So I was up and down about 20 times. I think I'll give her some vodka tonight. J/K. WHOA, MD. You might want to keep protein a little more controlled and get more carbos. The load should be controlled protein. Just a tip from a veteran. DH The Cocky poster boy for the AD, you guy's crack me up. This morning I weighed in at 191. I started the AD at 205. My BF has went down 2%, but I am pretty sure that is from the water and glycogen loss. So far the carb up and today's workout have went great. Here's what I have ate so far today: Meal one. Two cups oats (uncooked weight), one cup of mixed berries, 2 scoops of LowCarb Grow!, and a banana.

Meal two: The same as above. Meal three: during workout 3 scoops of Surge (I got four tubs to use up somehow:) Meal four: PWO half a BBQ chicken all white meat and three sweet potatoes and cole slaw. meal five: will be one cup of brown rice with soy sauce and a boneless skinless chicken breast. Meal six will be 1 cup full fat cottage cheese, 1/2 scoop of Low-Carb Grow!, 1 tblsp of flax and olive oil and 10 fish oil caps. Tomorrow I will basically eat the same thing minus the BBQ chicken PWO. I think I might try and take two fish oil caps with each meal instead of all of them at once. I don't think I will eat any junk on my carb up day's for I while . I want to gain some more LBM while getting ripped:) Joe No need to eradicate the protein. You should play around with this. Just make sure that you're getting at least 40-50% of your daily intake as carbo. YOU may do OK with lots of protein. I've wondered if keeping it a bit low for a day or two might increase uptake thereafter. Doc says some do very well on 60C/30F/10P. I go more 50C/30F/20P overall. But then again this is by mental notation. Who wants/needs to count calories when the buffet is calling... Bottom line: Get enough carbs and don't exceed 36 hours (for now to see how you do). Softening is a normal phenomenon. You have evacuated all the extra glycogen and water from your tissue. Once your body learns how to use fats for energy and be carb stingy, you'll be more balanced. Just console yourself with the fact that #1: This was not muscle you lost so you lost nothing of any value, #2: You will have the reverse after you load, #3: This "softening" will be much less severe when you fully adapt. Let me emphasize: This diet WILL be a little crazy at first. But you'll be cruisin' soon enough. It all depends on your mental toughness. Some walk away while they are on the precipice of breakthrough. Too bad. Thursday and Friday are what I call my dry days. You'll be leaner looking from the low water retention and eventually these may be your favorite days. We are essentially putting a bodybuilding contest prep cycle inside of a week each week. You'll learn your best days and enjoy knowing that you're optimizing your hormones for peak anabolic response. DH. And one more itty bitty piece of advice, MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT GETTING TOO MANY CARBS. Many, and I repeat, many people, no matter how many times it is said, do not fully understand that you must count ANY thing of any substance (liquid or solid) that goes into your mouth. All of it. Of course oxygen is carb free. ;-) DH, I want to make sure I understand your training recommendations. You believe that higher rep workouts right after the carb load are best (ex. sets of 8 reps) and heavier, low rep sets (ex. sets of 3) are best towards the end of the week right before the next carb up. Is this correct? Thank you. - reddman DH,

One of the differences in AS that I'll mention, is that Dr. D states that the range for an adapted person is 30-70 grams CHO per day, and that each person should experiment to determine their own tolerance--provided that you've already completed the strict 30 gram break-in period and have fully adapted. That's probably the biggest difference in the books. Bino moves to the top of the class. Good to see you, bro! Yes, adding the AD and/or AS are not of any real benefit if you already have one or the other. Better to buy some steak with the $. The two are the same animal. The biggest benefit is probably format. The AD is not in hard copy now. But it has the video w/it. The AS is currently in print. Either way, you're good to go. No worries. And, it should be stated again, practical application is the completion of the theory. Stick around on the thread for the best of both. Doc D and I have talked about how the concepts here are golden, and once adaptation has occurred, you can make some intelligent tweeking. Nothing crazy. Just like training, you know.. Room for individual variability WITHOUT destroying the diet. The more you drive this performance vehicle the more you "know" it and your responses. I just cannot emphasize enough, NO alterations for a few months (say 3-4). You have to be able to compare the "tweeks" to the original responses. Everybody needs a map before they set sail. Otherwise hitting your destination is as likely as the survival of that proverbial snowball somewhere south. ;-) DH For all the impatient guys out there: The first tweek that one CAN do, not necessary and I usually don't, is to add about 25-30g CHO as a pre or post workout drink. The research (DB's article) shows that this, mixed with some aminos or hydrolyzed whey, can boost your protein synthesis. BUT, you don't need those carbos. I usually don't. The right protein is fast enough to give you enough of a hit , too. Especially if you want to lean up. DO NOT: 1. think that this is necessary or even optimal for everyone. If we push our glycogen levels too high then the carb load will NOT work. So less is more here, with added emphasis. Don't exceed the 25-30g. We are different animals to a significant degree once we alter energy substrate usage following the shift. What has one effect in the "other" world can be something different on the AD. You MUST understand that. 2. add this step until you have 3 months stict adherence to compare yourself to. This also allows for insurance on making sure you are a full fat burner AND that you have seen what type/quantity CHO you need to get the best result. Best, DH Go to whatever your "finer" chain of grocery stores is out there. At least here in CO, they only have the plastic bottles at Walmart and the other "cheap" stores. I paid $18.99 for a 3L tin of Star brand cold pressed extra virgin. I am convinced that light shielding is critical to keep the oil the freshest and avoid damage to the more unsaturated FA chains. If you are interested in learning more, I highly recommend "Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill", by Udo Erasmus. It is a fantastic book that explains just about everything you could wish to know about fats and oils.

Hope this helps. You've found the diet. Best diet bar none to lose fat/keep muscle. One word of caution: patience. The AD works like a charm but it will take awhile before the cuts start to show. There have been a few guys post that they've started the AD and gone down to zero carbs. Don't do this. It is highly unlikely in the first place that they are truly at 'zero' carbs and there are hard scientific reasons behind the 30 grams per day rule. With 23% bodyfat you may have some serious carb cravings to deal with. Try sugar free jello with cool whip. It will surprise you how lo carb cool whip is. There are also some great lo carb yogurts that come in at 5 grams/serving. Heed the warnings about the crash. I have seen the higher the bdyfat the harder the crash. It's easy to read/write about but till you try it...well I've seen some pretty hard core dudes cash it in when the crash came. Another thing, don't be a slave to the scale. After your first carb up you will probably even gain scale weight. Don't even get on a scale till after 3-4 months on the AD. Go for it and keep us posted. Barry V, Don't say I didn't warn you if you decide to go sugar crazy... Eat some pastas, oatmeal, taters, veggies, AND some sugary stuff. But alas, we must all experience the "Coma load" at some point. ;-). And if one so chooses, Fruity Pebbles are indeed a wonderful way to go... DH Vegita wrote: Yea I'm trying to figure out just what I want to pig out on over the upcoming weekend. I'm really feeling Il cazzo's fruity pebbles idea. Unfortunately I have been known to eat the entire box in one setting. I'll have to break it up into at least two, maybe back to back though. V Experienced AD'ers, Some weeks I travel extensively for my job. What have you found to be the best carry around snacks during the week? I am thinking beef jerky and nuts have to be the best. Any other suggestions or tips? Does anybody else have a similar work related travel challenge? Thanks in advance. -reddman Vasudeva, A good way to lean out while maintaining (or even bumping)muscle is to wave your calories. I used a pattern such as this to get very lean a few summers ago. I'd severed the tendon, artery, and nerve in my thumb at work and had to consequenlty quit training/eating for mass. I needed to drop the weights and change the movements. Of course, had my doctor known that I was sliding the sheath off of my forearm and training still, he'd have killed me, but we're lifters man, and this wasn't bone we're dealing with ;-). This forced me on a little "leanness" detour. I decided to start cutting at 2500 cals

2500x7 = 17,500 cals weekly. Monday (after loading so I felt strong) 1500 cals Tuesday (still pretty glyco full) 2000 cals Wednesday 3000 cals (to prevent T3 level drop??) Thurday 2000 cals (burning some fat now) Friday 1500 cals (rapid fat burning) Saturday 4000 cals (GOOD carbos w/ few treats) Sunday 3500 cals (all clean carbs and a slight drop in cals as I approach the end of the load) I would use some of the following to make sure I'd be ready to have my blood sugar back down and be ready to burn fat faster too: Slo-Niacin. (WATCH THE DOSE/START LOW) and some Vanadyl Sulfate. I went with about 10mg VS on the afternoon and evening meal on Sunday. By the next morning I was very hungry and knew there was no residual excess glucose in the blood to be concerned with. You WILL likely be hungry so eat some fat fast on Monday morning. VS can drop you pretty fast sometimes. best, DH

Vas, See how you do first. I've found that I'm strong on my low carb days no matter where they are situated. Even when I think I'm feeling a bit nappy. Get a good warmup first on your Wednesday ME day. Without the "cushion" of the glycogen and water from the load, I feel a bit more stiff. Again, get a good warmup but do so with low reps. I was surprised to find that even though I started a bit "off" that I actually was quite strong on Wednesdays. It's the high rep stuff that'll bust your chops toward thurs and fri. Your glyco levels are low and these HR workouts rely on just that. Not that you can't do them at this point, it's just that you may not do as well as you would with heavier weight and

lowered reps. For example on Waterbury's TBT I make a slight change that in no way alters the principles of the program. I simply move the higher rep day to monday and the rest as follows: Sat evening (Low rep day using 5 reps) Mon evening (high reps using 15 reps) Wed evening (moderate reps..8 reps) This also affords me opportunity to utilize Bill Starr's heavy, light, medium schedule that I've always done well with. Perfect. Now, as with much on the AD, you'll want to experiment. Some may be just fine doing high rep work later in the week. Depends on how glycogen stingy your body is. Should you find that you are CERTAIN that you cannot do well, then I'd suggest hitting some CHO in the way of a pre workout shake with maybe 40-50g CHO and some protein. Say 30 minutes prior to the workout. Again, if this is not necessary then you're all the better. Also, some do better with a slow releasing CHO like oatmeal before the workout. Avoid a crash or the "squirts" that can sometimes hit you with a rapid release CHO drink. ;-) Best, DH

I'm starting to see the benefits of the adaptation. I'm most vascular on Wednesday and Thursday. I'm recovering better. I get sore faster but so far have recovered a full two to three days faster. I seriously feel like, I would imagine, being on gear to feel. I'm three weeks in and have visibily lost fat. My ass is smaller and the love handles are gone. People are commenting that I'm "blowing up" but it is the illusion of fat loss. My weight has come back up and I'm only 3 pounds down versus 8 pounds down. So LBM is already increasing. I plan to eat somewhat moderately during the locarb phases and bump the cals up to the 10,000 to 15,000 range during the carb up days. From the book this seems to be the approach that may work best for me. I'll be experimenting the whole way through until I "dial in." I'm going to post new measurements so that my progress in that area is tracked. I'm anticipating that they will be very similar except waist and hip measurements. I'm looking forward to Sunday's Strongman training and I am thinking of doing four days a week now instead of just three. I needed to drop to three before for sufficient recovery. Sunday's are a bitch, harder than the comps. Felt very strong Tuesday and we will see how I feel today. I plan to do some moderatly heavy high total rep sumo squats today. Bring up the weaknesses! Vegita wrote: Just an observation I made as I'm on day 10 of the break in. My muscles feel kinda soggy, like if I flex they aren't as rock hard as normal. Is this a good thing, does it mean they are carb depleted and all? I'm guessing that when the carb load goes in it gives you

an insane pump, so the reverse would be true. My energy has planed out versus the beginning of the week and end of last week. Not really any more ups or downs, going to play 18 holes in a bit out in the heat, so it will be a good test as to if i'm still carb crashing. V You are on track Veg. It is pretty common to feel 'flat' on the lo carb days on this diet. It will be like this for quite awhile. Sometime down the line the body seems to adapt and the fullness from the carb loads carries through the week or at least most of the week. Later on you can experiment with the mid week carb spike. If your system can handle it this works great. You basically eat 1 or 2 high carb meals on Wednesday. Plan your training accordingly. Get ready for a great pump. Like mdragon says: almost like the gear. As an AD vet, my workouts even on lo carb days produce great 'pumps'. In the past I have used the midweek carb spike with great results. During that time though I was getting alot of cardio and I would use the carb meals to fuel the cardio sessions because they were 45 minutes of intense cardio (spin instructor). Take plenty of water on the course, 'course you know that. Yea, I think you have it. Barry

I have been drinking a shake after I train and before bed on non-traing days. 2 scoops of Grow!, 8 tablespoons of Heavy Cream, and two tablespoons of olive oil. The taste is outstanding and it has around 900 kcal. This has got to be one of the ultimate Mass gainer shakes, and it has quality kcal not cheap sugars. Damn if I keep eating like I have been I'll be 250 with 20" arms in no time ;-)

Thanks Arctos, I was worried that I was getting hit with hidden carbs and ruining my diet. Gonna go with Low carb grow next time. Everyone on here keeps talking about how good it is with some olive oil added. #1: Make sure that you are loading with slow quality carbos with only a few treats. Some are just sensitive. See how this works first. Now, you may want to try one of three options: Option 1: A 6day/1day cycle. Self explanatory. Option 2: Or (to address a previous post too) the Faigin plan. Some do better on shorter abbreviated loads. Wednesday evening: Last meal 150g CHO minimum up to last two meals for a grand total of 500g CHO for larger men. Each one being 200-250 or so to fill up the glycogen levels of a male with plenty of muscle. Saturday evening: Same as Wednesday. It is of the utmost importance to make these the last meal(s) of the day to avoid any long insulin surges throughout the day when you eat pro and fat. Putting all together in a short cycle is a recipe for fatness.

You do a 3day/4day cycle each week. Every third of fourth day you have a mini-load, go to bed a few hours later and then resume low carbing. Option 3: Do a wednesday carb spike (last meal or evening post workout) of about 200g CHO, then do a 12 hour high quality load on Saturday. 8am - 8pm, for what amounts to a full load day. Important NOTE TO ALL: Once you give the standard AD a full 2-3 months, the give one of the above a shot IF and only IF you need to. You must be observant and systematic so that you leave yourself a back trail to compare one to the other. I do so well on fats (and most do even according to Charles Poliquin who follows Doc's rationale with the majority of his athletes) and don't need to alter the overall scheme. DONT unless you are certain you need to, not just go belly up and convince yourself you need to. Faigin's main gripe with the AD, although he holds Doc D in very high regard, is that Doc D never really specified what types of CHO to use. But Doc says that is up to you. You'll figure out that snack cakes and tubs of ice cream smooth you out quicker than taters and pasta. Experiment. So Faigin while being technically accurate on this one critique doesn't make good argument overall. Doc says figure it out on your own, Rob says just go quality carbs. Both come to the same end sooner or later. His second critique was duration. But recent studies have shown that an adapted fat burner continues to burn fat for at least 24 hours of loading. Rob was uncertain how far it could be pushed. Now these type of recommendations work well for the general public, but we lifters are able to surmise the effects on our own bodies with a better understanding. I've found 36 hours to be great. Doc has found that at least 24 hours of the load are still "fat burning" so you are storing all that CHO. Rob was just unsure of this info at the time of his writing. Both are great guys with great books. You'd never need another variation in your life if you owned both. Faigins is Natural Hormonal Enhancement. Interested parties can do a search. best, DH BTW, it does mimic Beverly's load timing, but Faigin wrote his in 99 and Jay Robb wrote in 95 or so. Faigin goes low carb but Beverly goes 20% CHO. I find this too high to get proper glycogen depletion for the supercompensation load. A Beverly diet, as Poliquin states, is for those who are carb burners by nature. He surmises about 20% of his athletes fall in this range. The majority do well on cyclical higher fat diets. And for a history lesson, they all got their info on a 3/4 cycle from Vince Gironda. VG was right again. ;-) Gentlemen, meet your distant cousins: Beverly: 50P/30F/20CHO 3/4 load cycle Jay Robb: (exactly the same) Faigin: Anabolic Diet on 3/4 load cycle Vince Gironda: (exactly the same ) Charles Poliquin: (basically the same)

And for good measure, Will Brink and Bill Starr both advocate taking in about 1g/lb of bodyweight of CHO for lifters/athletes. Most are surprised that Starr did this as he worked with football players. Just shows that CHO are not as important as widely believed. We are in good company guys, no matter how much "the world" whines and argues. Best, DH conorh wrote: I've only done two carb ups, so I don't have alot to base this on, but so far I'm noticing the opposite of some others: I feel harder than normal, not flat at all, especially in my arms. On the other hand, when I load, I spill over instantly and look puffy all day. What gives? Is this in and of itself a bad thing if it doesn't affect results otherwise or is it indicative of a problem that needs fixin? I have changed up my training a little bit and am slowly creeping my weights up in the squat and rack pull, so that may very well have something to do with it. Oh, and I was also hungry as hell today. I've already had my crash weeks ago, but I was just hungry. I had to add a bunch of bacon and breakfast sausage to kill my appetite today. I work nights and I'm trying to cut, so I added a half dose of Hot-Rox before work last night, I think that may explain it...

Hey lets get some good recipes up here from fellow ADers. I put a few recipes together in the last week and I was wondering if you guys have any input in them. I don't think I am hitting any hidden carbs but input is always appreciated. #1 Turkey roll ups 1 slice of Boars Head Pepper Mill turkey 2 strips Bacon 1 tsp Mayo 5-6 baby spinach leaves These things are great little snacks. Take the turkey, spread the mayo across it, Lay the bacon strips on when they are still hot and slightly pliable, cover with the spinach leaves and roll up. Try not to let the bacon get too crisp or it just falls apart, and also make sure everything is in order so the bacon stays hot as you roll. Once it cools it helps hold the wrap together. #2 Thai ground beef 2lbs 90% lean ground beef 1/2 cup Natural Peanut Butter 2 tbsp Sirancha Chili Sauce 2 tbsp Butter 2 tbsp Olive Oil 1 tsp salt 1 tsp garlic powder 1 tsp onion poder 1 tbsp dried thyme 1 tbsp dried basil 1-2 tbsp Balsamic Vinagar

Brown the meat in a large skillet, either add in the dried spices from the start or drain the fat and then add them. I left in the fat, I like it. Once the dried spices are added, put in the butter, olive oil, and PB. Drop the heat to low until the last three are incorporated. Add in the sirancha and just as that mixes in add the balsamic just before you pull it. You don't want too much of it to evaporate. I like to eat this just as it is, but it is also good over baby spinach and would actually be really good over nachos. Add or subtract to taste or heat preferences. Also watch the ammount of PB and Balsamic since thier are carbs in both of them. Let me know what you think, I would love any input on changes or if I am over doing the carbs.

A simple but tasty recipe/idea: Take cauliflour and "mash" it to your liking and then add butter and cheese to use as a substitute for mashed potatoes. DH

A simple but tasty recipe/idea: Take cauliflour and "mash" it to your liking and then add butter and cheese to use as a substitute for mashed potatoes. DH Today is my 1st carb up day. These 2 weeks flew right by. The only problem I feel that I have on this diet is that it has turned me into a freaking eating machine. I cannot not stop craving red meat. Feel like a zombie that needs to feed on brains! So far on this diet I have dropped 8lbs. and an inch on my waist. This diet F-in rocks. Has anyone else had an increase of aggression in the gym. Maybe its in my head but I feel like I'm back on sust. Remember that the carb-up macronutrient ratio is approximately the following: 20-40% Fat, 15-30% Pro, 35-60% Cho. While you can technically consume an "unlimited" amount of carbs from any source, you should be wary of consuming outside of this ratio initially. Also, since you are cutting, I would suggest keeping your Cho sources clean. Best! njstomp wrote: This diet F-in rocks. Has anyone else had an increase of aggression in the gym. Maybe its in my head but I feel like I'm back on sust. Aggression increase? totally. A few minutes ago I was talking to a friend and I had to apologize for busting his chops so badly. I grinned and blamed the AD. As far as my workouts are concerned I have so much more energy, focus, and aggression. It's wondeful. Yup, just remember with carbs, you can subtract the dietary fiber. So, if you are eating a serving of peanuts and it says it has 5g carbs/serving and the dietary fiber/serving is

2g, then treat that serving as if it had 3g carbs. The fiber will not effect your blood suger and need not be counted. -BD Also, depending on age and/or genetic predisposition, be sure to watch putting all this together. Your neurotransmitters are already optimized on the AD and you *could* create some blood pressure issues. Just something to monitor. It is ALWAYS a good idea to get some routine blood work done and a regular checkup whenever you are on any type of eating pattern. In my opinion everybody should have this done every 6 months, and especially if you are 25 or older. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. In my earlier years I couldn't shake the more is better mentality. Now I see the wisdom in balance. Your body is just too smart to be pushed too far out of kilter without ramifications. You must coax changes, not bludgeon your carcass into submission. More is not *always* better, better is better. DH Owen70 wrote: cccp21 wrote: What does anyone think of an anabolic diet combined with ephedra(pseudophed)or HOTROX combined with Power Drive? Will it work? Brandon Green HOT-ROX will work fine. Power Drive will work fine. ephedrine will work fine(but add some caffeine in a 1:10 ratio E:C). add them altogether and you'll feel like lindsay lohan on a friday night. With ya Hoss, There is a local place here that serves a giant cheeseburger. One of those that they put your picture up if you eat it. That is an AD lovers dream. Lot's o' beef. Another good place is one of those Mongolian barbeque deals. Just pack your bowl with meats and a few veggies, delicious. Barry Today was the start of my second carb up, and I now understand why this diet is called the Anabolic Diet. I have never in my life be so pumped up during and after I've worked out. These pumps are as good or better than those I have experienced off of MAG-10. I am dead serious when I say this. I didn't catch a pump like this last weekend, but If I can expect this from now on great! I can actually see the veins in my shoulders, arms and chest. This isn't too big a deal for most, but I am probably the least vascular person ever. Man this diet kicks so much ass. Time to hit the pool! Joe I really didn't notice too much of a pump on last Saturdays workout. Today was awesome though. I ate 2 cups of oats, one cup of mixed berries, and a scoop of Grow! and a banana pre workout. I drank one serving of Surge during and one a few minutes after my workout. I went six days before my carb up so I felt completely depleted and flat. About half way through my workout I just exploded. It might have also been the

Waterburyish (a new word for ya) workout I did today. I am not used to bodybuilding type workouts. Joe I just destroyed some banana-caramel pancakes at my local waffle house. I'm now eating a big bowl of oatmeal and blueberries with a handfull of Fish oil caps to curb the damage. I literally finished eating the pancakes and felt like going for a nap... Anvil

Yeah, I've found that the best way to enjoy some junk is to make sure it is surrounded by better quality stuff. Some ice cream after pasta, cookies and milk after a baked potato, rice, and veggies at the buffet. By mixing in the good stuff it allows you to enjoy the load while feeling much better. DH ruglayer09052000 wrote: Learned an interesting thing this weekend during my first carb-up. Hi glycemic and sugary carbs equal COMA!!!!! Low gly loading with few treats appears to be the way to go, at least for me. I'm gonna try that way next weekend. Seeing how I like fruits and vegis, that won't be a problem. I'll just limit my icecream to 1 scoop, instead of 1 bowl :) DH, I'm going on a 2 to 4 week cutting cycle to finish my leanout for the summer. I'm gonna give HOT-ROX a shot. Ill keep you updated. Realitivly speaking, I'm only going to drop 5lbs of fat when i'm done. rancho wrote: Owen70 wrote: rancho wrote: I am on the AD and I presently weigh about 250 lbs if my goal is cut and 215 would it make more since or even be beneficial to calculate my cals by the weight I desire 215 instead of 250 no, do it like so... 250 x 12 = 3000 so eat 3000 cals a day. then fuck with it from there. Owen, Would I make the adjustsment every five days afther weighing my self? thx Rancho, Welcome to the AD. I would make adjustments to your total Kcal intake as your weight drops. First week down to 245, then 245x12 and so on as the weeks progress. Good luck and keep us informed. JOe I took those measurements. Upper arms, neck, thighs, calves all measure same as before AD. Waist down an inch, hips down 1.5 inches, and chest down an inch. all my fat places. I put 1/4 of an inch on my forearms. Weight is only down 5 lbs. I'm into week four now and am starting to see the areas that need work. For instance I need more

calories on the carb up. DH could you give a typical carb day food log? That would be most helpful! I can only eat so many sweet potatoes and oatmeal. My strength is a little better after the carb up. My recovery is better and I've lost a lot of fat already. I look bigger but am just leaner. Good "dieting" to all! Oh yeah I tried half and half with my protein shake and it is awesome! I finally figured out what to do about flax seeds: Mix them in whipped cream (just the plain aerosol stuff that you usually eat out of the can) and you've got dessert. Perhaps I'll experiment with adding protein powder or freezing it. No more feeling guilty about eating sausage, I'm all healthy fats from here on out (except for cheese, which of course is why I like the AD in the first place).

mdragon wrote: Oh yeah I tried half and half with my protein shake and it is awesome! if you liked half and half you should give heavy whipping cream a try. It's AMAZING

Second that. I use heavy cream (with water)in all of my protein drinks for the AD. With DH's suggestion of adding a little sugar-free Jello, it tastes good enough to make me feel guilty! milkmeasurer wrote: mdragon wrote: Oh yeah I tried half and half with my protein shake and it is awesome! if you liked half and half you should give heavy whipping cream a try. It's AMAZING Had a PM on this issue, and thought it might be good to post the content. Name edited out for privacy, of course. ----Use cardio as little as possible. You can do it 2-3x per week for 20 mins or so. The thing with cardio is that the caloric usage is not great and the hormonal stimulation is minimal and sometimes detrimental. I prefer something of an interval activity such as tennis, biking (fast for 30 secs, slower for a few minutes), hiking on rough terrain, some street basketball, etc... These, due to bursts of anaerobic exertion, will stimulate GH and T levels in a fashion more like training. The "best" alternative is really light weight AR sessions, too. Just don't overdo any superfluous training to the detriment of your workouts. Also, don't be worried to drop the cals down to as low as 1500 cals or so. Just bump them up to maintenance on wedneday and during the load. This would allow for 4 low cal days and 3 "normal" days. For example if you weigh 240 at @26%then try using the following: Low cal days: Lean mass x 10 (@180 x 10 = 1800 kcal) Maintenance cal days: Lean mass x 15 (@180 x 15 = 2700 kcal)

Also some HOT-ROX, kelp tablets, and plenty of vitamins and minerals should help keep the T3 humming. Use a thermometer in the am's before moving. If your temp drops more than .5-1.0 degree then bump cals a little bit that day. Best, DH luddini wrote: Wow I just read all 15 pages of the thread and am going to give the AD a try. My questions are: What kind of suitability this has in the long term. Is this something that can be used as a lifestyle change for the future (is it safe to have such a high fat level in the diet for years on end, even if proper fat ratios are used??) Also for example, is this diet limited for use by bodybuilders/powerlifters or could this be useful to other athletes that have slightly higher endurance requirements? why not. eskimos live on meat most their lives. but my answer is way to simple. if you get health problems from eating this way(check after the first 2-4 months) then obviously you cant. but if you naturally burn fat fairly easily i dont see why you could eat this way forever. luddini wrote: Responses appreciated!! by the way, I do a 3 day TBT routine of mostly powerlifts and I also do some biking, basketball, etc. a few times week so im curious to know if this AD is something I could use long term with healthy results i follow a diet alot like the AD, in that it cyclical with a once a week refeed. so day 1-lo, day 2 lo..etc...day5 refeed, day 6 restart. i also play bball like 5 days a week, and it hasnt really been a problem for me. Doc D states that the AD should have been called the Anabolic lifestyle. I've done it for a decade. Its healthy as long as you get the right fats mixed in and consume plenty of veggies. Far better than the alternative. Far... Best, DH Sup' V, The calorie issue is a common one. Once your body knows how to burn some body fat for serious fuel, it can take the appetite away. You've got food all over your body, now. ;-). If you are wanting to trim down then its cool to let this work to your advantage. If you want to mass or maintain thereby needing more cals, then DRINK your needs. I consistently drink 3 meals per day, cycled with 3 solid meals and snacks if I so choose/ need. My appetite has never been big, at least not for more than a few meals. I'll get 50g protein powder mixed with 3-4tbsp heavy cream and 1tbsp olive oil. This gets around 500 cals, is easy on the gut, and allows for more frequent feedings. But again, if you are looking to do some summer cutting, then enjoy yet another benefit of the AD...less severe hunger fluctuations. Not only is the AD easier to build muscle on,

but it's much easier to lose bodyfat (while keeping ALL the muscle) on. Best of both worlds. With props to Van Halen. ;-) Best, DH chucky atlas: you can pretty much expect to always crash if you are doing the other facets of the diet right. i.e. if your carb intake was low enough during the week to promote operating in a keto-ish environment, and your carb load contained enough pure starches/ sugars(remember keep fructose low below 50 grams) you will most likely crash. i have been dieting witha refeed every 5 days for like 2 months now, and the only thing that has changed from week to week is the severity of the crash, i.e. i always do. I've never crashed; this includes the first 12 day period. However, I also get low-grade headaches, almost like a constant humming. When this begins, I've found that 100mg of potassium two to three times a day does wonders. But be careful, toxicity can be achieved quickly. Don't go over 500mg/day, and don't take the stuff day in and day out. I tend to use it on Thursdays and Fridays.

Somebody call? The crashes could be mediated by improper loading parameters, but is unlikely, use of stimulants, or most likely your body still trying to re-wire itself to all the nuances of the AD. As long as you are getting around 30g per day and then keeping the load to 36 hours, you should be OK. The 48 range is for serious volume training and/or large men. I think it takes about 12 weeks to FULLY adapt. I don't experience any type of headache or have crash issues. On friday I feel a bit less powerful so I don't train or do a light AR workout. My guess is one of two issues. First, still learning to get the waves under control. The severity should subside big time. Or, AFTER about 12 weeks on the diet, use 20-25g of fast CHO after a workout. With this keep your loads clean and don't bust 36 hours. If the fast CHO is too much and you don't feel well, then use a slow CHO like oatmeal after your workout. Really though, most feel just fine after it "levels out". Just make sure you are doing the numbers correctly. My estimation is that 60% will do best on the strict AD, about 20% will need to utilize some targeted CHO, about 20% will need to use 50-80g CHO per day and keep the load well monitored to prevent fat gain. Just ride the full 12 weeks out to see where you need to be. Most everyone I've put on it are in group 1, with a few group 2, and one buddy who is a group 3. Once we've got some guys who are at 12 weeks then we will systematically begin trying the tweeking process to to tailor make the AD for individual variability. Best, DH


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