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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
-against-

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:

MOHAMMED WALI ZAZI

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:

Defendant

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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
BEFORE:

10-CR-60 (JG)
U.S. Courthouse
Brooklyn, New York

July 18, 2011
9:30 a.m.

HONORABLE JOHN GLEESON
United States District Judge
and a jury

APPEARANCES:
For the Government:

LORETTA E. LYNCH
United States Attorney
271 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York 11201
BY: BERIT WINGE BERGER
MELISSA MARRUS
ANDREW EDWARD GOLDSMITH
Assistant U.S. Attorneys
and
COURTNEY A. SULLIVAN
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530

For the Defendant:

COLSON & HARRIS LLP
10 East 40th Street
Suite 3307
New York, New York 10016
BY: DEBORAH AUSTERN COLSON
JUSTINE A. HARRIS

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BURTON SULZER
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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Court Reporter:

Burton H. Sulzer, OCR CM
Official Court Reporter
225 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York 11201

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Minutes Taken Stenographically.
By Computer Aided Transcription.

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Transcript Produced

****

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(Open court-case called-appearances noted.)

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THE COURT:

Good morning.

We have a small issue

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with Alternate Six, whose employer wrote me on Friday

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afternoon suggesting that it would be too much of a financial

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burden for her to serve.

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I don't really care about the employer, the

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Princeton club of New York, but if the financial concern

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emanates from the juror herself it's a different story.

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I'm going to ask Ilene to probe a little bit to see whether

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it's just the employer's concern or her own.

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Are you ready with your opening statements?

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MR. GOLDSMITH:

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MS. COLSON:

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matters that we wanted to raise.

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THE COURT:

So

Yes, your Honor.

We are.

We do have two very brief

Before we do that, Ilene didn't swear

the interpreters yet.

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(Interpreters sworn: Naim Saidi and Nasir Ahmad.)

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THE COURT:

Thank you.

BURTON SULZER
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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MS. COLSON:

The first is with respect to Amanullah

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Zazi -- and the reason we are raising it because the

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government had told us they are calling him to testify this

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morning.

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We would like to introduce some calls into evidence

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on our cross-examination of a monologue between him and our

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client in which our client refers to Amanallah as son.

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The government has told us that they believe these
calls open the door to their 404(b) evidence.

We don't

believe they do.

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We should let you know that we intend to argue at

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trial that our client and Amanallah Zazi lived together for

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many years --

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THE COURT:

Sorry.

Immigration stuff?

What do you

mean by 404(b)?

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MS. COLSON:

Immigration stuff.

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THE COURT:

Go ahead.

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MS. COLSON:

That our client and Amanallah Zazi

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lived together for many years, that our client fed him and

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clothed him and sent him to school and treated him like a son

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and that they developed a father/son relationship over time.

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We do not believe that that opens the door.

We are

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not going to argue or tell the jury how Amanullah came to this

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country or why he came owe this country but merely discuss the

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relationship that developed.

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THE COURT:

I take it there is not going to be any

dispute that he's not actually his son?

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MS. COLSON:

We are not disputing that.

We have in

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fact signed a stipulation that says that Amanullah Zazi is not

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the biological child of our client.

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We should also let your Honor know that the

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government informed us this weekend that they have indicted

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Mr. Zazi in the Southern District on the immigration fraud.

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So that case is now open and pending, which is another factor

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for consideration in deciding what we may or may not argue at

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trial.

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THE COURT: The statute hasn't run on the most recent
development in that fraud, is that what it is?

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MS. BERGER:

Correct.

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THE COURT:

When was that?

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MS. BERGER:

When was the fraud?

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THE COURT:

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The most recent percolation of it in the

INS?

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MS. BERGER:

I believe it was January of 2007.

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THE COURT:

I see.

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The case wasn't brought here

because it's all venued in Southern?
MS. BERGER:

The case was originally brought here

and the defendant moved to dismiss.

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THE COURT:

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MS. BERGER:

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I understand that.
So now it's in a fraud in the Southern

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District.

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MS. COLSON:

That's the first issue.

The second

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issue that the government has given us a list of proposed

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calls they would like --

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THE COURT:

issue, give you a ruling now?

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MS. COLSON:

I think we need a ruling sometime this

morning before he testifies.

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What do you want me to do on the first

THE COURT:

Why?

MS. COLSON:

Because we intend to introduce the

calls.

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THE COURT:

You mean before your cross?

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MS. COLSON:

Yes.

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THE COURT:

All right.

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I'll try to give you one, but, you know, don't get

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used to the notion that in advance I can preflight everything

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you intend to do and tell you whether it's okay or doors will

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be opened.

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I understand this application and it sounds like
you're on safe ground but let me hear the direct.

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All right?

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MS. COLSON:

Okay.

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THE COURT:

I interrupted you in the middle of your

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second application.
MS. COLSON:

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The second application can probably be

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raised later as well.

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even know if it's coming in this morning or later on.

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hold off on that.

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THE COURT:

We can

As long as we are waiting for the jury,

give me a hint.

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It's about another call that I don't

MS. COLSON:

A call between our client and

Najibullah Zazi that took place on September 15th.

The.

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Government proposes to introduce into evidence

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Najibullah said something to our client like, "Don't say

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anything.

Don't talk."
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We believe that since Najibullah is unlikely to

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testify the government cannot explain the relevance of that

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call or the meaning of that call to the jury.

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should stay out.

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MS. BERGER:

So we think it

Your Honor, just for greater clarity,

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the exhibit that we are actually talking about is Government

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Exhibit 76.

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you should have a transcript binder.

The transcript is 76 T.

I have a copy here but

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THE COURT:

Is it in the transcripts or exhibits?

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MS. BERGER:

I believe in both.

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in the transcript binder; 76 T.

It might be easier

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This is a call that takes place on September 15th of

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2009, which is a day before the defendant Najibullah goes into

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the FBI for the interview.

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The call is admissible clearly under 801(d)(2) as an

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admission by a party opponent.

It seems to me that the

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defendant's arguments go more to the weight of the call than

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the actual admissibility.

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If the defendant wishes to argue to the jury that we

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don't know what it is that they are referring to they have the

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option of doing that.

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admissibility of the call itself though.

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THE COURT:

I don't think that actually goes to the

So the record is clear, what we are

talking about is a really short call.

Najibullah says, Don't

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tell them anything, tell them I don't know."

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says "okay."

The defendant

Essentially that's it.

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What is your response to that?

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MS. COLSON:

Your Honor, there is no context here.

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We don't know the meaning, we don't know who "them" is.

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don't know if "okay" constitutes a party admission.

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THE COURT:

You'll argue that.

I

The context is the

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investigation that is happening right at this point in time,

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right?

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MS. COLSON:

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THE COURT:

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Possibly.
You'll argue that.

they're talking about something else.

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MS. BERGER:

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issue that we could case raise.

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Zazi this morning.

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You can argue that

Overruled.

Your Honor, we have one more minor
We intend to call Amanullah

In Amanullah Zazi's cooperation agreement, one of

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the crimes that he got coverage for was his immigration fraud.

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Now, that is intricately entwined with the defendant's

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immigration fraud, which I understand your Honor has

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precluded.

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as to whether we should actually redact that portion of the

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cooperation agreement to give coverage for his immigration

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fraud, just to cover our bases.

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THE COURT:

Do you want to be heard?

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MS. COLSON:

We have no objection to redaction..

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MS. BERGER:

We would prefer for the jury to know

We did not intend to -- I guess we sought guidance

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all of the crimes that Amanullah is actually covered for so I

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this our preference would be to have it not redacted as long

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as that doesn't step on the toes of your Honor's ruling.

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THE COURT:

It sounds like it does.

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instinct was an admirable one.

So your first

Redact it out.

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MS. BERGER:

Thank you, your Honor.

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I think that is all we had, unless your Honor would

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like us to respond on the calls between Amanullah and Wali,

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which I'll be happy to do.

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THE COURT:

Go ahead.

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MS. BERGER:

Your Honor, the reason we think this

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opens the door, the defense, as they explained to the court,

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the defense is not going to be arguing in the trial that

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Amanullah is in fact the defendant's son.

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stipulated that he's not the biological son.

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The only other way that somebody can be your son if

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not biological is through adaption.

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on arguing that he is in fact the adopted son then these calls

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would leave the jury with the misimpression that is in fact

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the relationship between them.

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If they are not planning

Since we have a stipulation where the defendant says

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he's not my biological son, and we have these calls where the

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defendant refers to Amanullah as son, the jury may well be

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left with the impression that he's in fact the adopted son,

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which is factually incorrect.
THE COURT:

When I asked before -- the fault is

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mine -- but I assumed that there was not going to be any

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dispute as to the fact that Amanullah was neither his adopted

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nor his biological son.

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Am I right about that?

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MS. COLSON:

Your Honor, we are not going to argue

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that Amanullah Zazi was legally adopted by our client.

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going to argue that they developed a father/son relationship

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over time and that using the word "adopted" may not have

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been -- was an accurate way of describing that relationship

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even though there was no legal adoption.

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THE COURT:

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or what does it read?

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MS. BERGER:

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We are

What is the stipulation going to read --

As of now it says that Mohammed Wali

Zazi is not the biological father of Amanullah Zazi, he's a

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biological uncle.

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Mohammed Wali Zazi did not adopt Amanullah Zazi.

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said they do not want to sign that stipulation.

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We proposed a stipulation that also says

THE COURT:

Hold on.

You should.

The defense

I don't think

it's fair.
I've kept out, for reasons I've already expressed,

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this immigration fraud.

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unfair prejudice.

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think, but it's a cost you have willingly incurred.

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I think it has the capacity for

That comes at some cost to the defense, I

I don't want there to be a quasi litigation over

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this issue that is really not in dispute.

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stipulate to this as a matter of fairness, that he's neither

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adopted nor biological.

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MS. COLSON:

I think you need to

We were willing to stipulate to the

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fact that Mr. Zazi did not really adopt Amanullah Zazi.

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government was unwilling to put in the word "legal" or

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"legally," and we do intend to argue to the jury that he

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treated him like an adopted son.

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we intend to make.

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THE COURT:

The

That is part of the argument

I'm not sure I want to do this.

There

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is a certain distortive effect that this Rule 403 ruling I've

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made creates.

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intent behind what the government claims is an encouragement

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of false statements.

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The distortion is over the motive behind, the

The mens rea for the crime isn't corrupt intent to

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obstruct the investigation.

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there that I have taken out of the case now, the motive to

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deal with and not reveal the immigration fraud that occurred.

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I thought the second installment of that was a little earlier,

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but the second installment is 2007, the first installment is

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in the late nineties?

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MS. BERGER:

That's correct, your Honor.

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THE COURT:

So we're taking that out of the case

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There is this other motive out

and the cost you willingly incur to get it out of the case is

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that the alleged encouragement to lie about the relationship

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with Amanullah Zazi will now appear to the jury to be part and

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parcel of this claimed effort to obstruct the investigation

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that was ongoing.

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We talked about this, you've taken that under

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advisement.

It strikes me that this whole maybe not legal but

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quasi legal adoption is inserting yet a third possible motive,

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which really isn't supported by the evidence; the jury

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wouldn't believe that if it knew what the real facts were.

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I don't think the jury -- I think if you want to

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litigate the question whether maybe he didn't legally adopt

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him but in his mind he thought he had quasi -legally adopted

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him, why shouldn't the government then be permitted to say,

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No, no, no that's not right, none of this was about formal

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legal adaption as opposed to informal adoption, it's really

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about this third thing, this immigration fraud he's trying to

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keep from being exhumed.

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MS. COLSON:

That's my concern.

Your Honor, if we signed the

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stipulation that says he is not adopted -- if we signed the

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stipulation are the calls admissible?

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THE COURT:

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MS. COLSON:

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I'm sorry?

What calls?

The calls between Amanullah Zazi and

our client in which our client refers to him as son.

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THE COURT:

Are they admissible?

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MS. COLSON:

Yes.

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Without opening the door to the

immigration fraud?

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THE COURT:

I see.

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First of all -- baby steps.

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right?

Everything is interlinked.

That stipulation would be true,

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MS. COLSON:

It is true.

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THE COURT:

He didn't adopt.

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MS. COLSON:

He did not adopt him.

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THE COURT:

Well, I'm not that concerned about you

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arguing that even though he didn't adopt him he had this kind

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of relationship, you can do that.

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MS. COLSON:

Okay.

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THE COURT:

I don't regard them to be linked in

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this manner.

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advantage being taken by the exclusion of the evidence.

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What I'm concerned about is a possible unfair

I'm not sure if all that evidence came in you'd be
making this argument.

BHS

Maybe I don't understand the way it's

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going to play out in front of the jury.

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Do you intend to open on this subject?

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MS. COLSON:

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Not really, no.

But it will come in

through the cross-examination of Amanullah Zazi.
THE COURT:

As the trial unfolds -- you folks are

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steeped in what the evidence will be, I'm not -- as the trial

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unfolds maybe I'll see it differently and more clearly.

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this point I don't really see that stipulation as opening the

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door for the government.

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At

The government will argue that most

things open the door and I'll hear you on that.
But I'm concerned -- I'm not going to repeat

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myself -- I'm concerned about this adoption issue and if the

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actual facts are that he's not either the biological or the

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adopted son, I don't think you should be permitted to litigate

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that one of those is the case when you've kept out this other

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reason for the false statements.

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MS. COLSON:

Sorry for interrupting.

We're not

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going to argue that he is the adopted child of our client.

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I'm sorry if I led you to believe that was the case.

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going to argue that they developed a father/son relationship.

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We are

The reason the word "adopted" is relevant is because

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in describing that relationship to the FBI agent, that is the

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word our client used.

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a lie on his part even though there was no legal adoption.

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But we will sign the stipulation if that allows us to

BHS

So we intend to argue that that was not

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introduce the call without opening the door.

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THE COURT:

Given the first thing you said, that

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you're not going to argue that he's the adopted son of the

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defendant, you shouldn't have any problem with that

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stipulation.

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MS. COLSON:

Okay.

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THE COURT:

Ilene, how are we doing with the juror?

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(Pause.)

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THE COURT:

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employer.

We will sign it.

The juror is fine.

The employer has not made a compelling case to me.

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Bring in the jury, please.

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(Pause.)

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(Jury present.)

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THE COURT:

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to see you again.

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JURORS:

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THE COURT:

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trial.

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we begin.

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It's just the

Good morning.

Seated everyone.

Nice

Good morning.
Welcome back.

We're ready to begin the

Let me give you a few preliminary instructions before

The defendant is Mohammed Wali Zazi.

He's seated

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over there.

He's charged with three offenses, conspiracy to

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obstruct justice and a couple of counts of obstructing

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justice -- I'll give you much more detailed instructions about

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those charges later on in the case -- to which he has pled not

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guilty, which, as you know, places the burden of proving him

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guilty squarely on the shoulders of the government.

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burden never shifts, always stays on the government's side of

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the courtroom.

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That

A defendant in a criminal case, and Mr. Zazi in this

5

case, must be presumed by the jury to be innocent throughout

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the trial and indeed throughout your deliberations unless and

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until you're convinced unanimously beyond a reasonable doubt

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that he has been proven guilty of a particular charge you're

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considering.

So that presumption of innocence stays with the

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defendant, protects him throughout the trial and throughout

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your deliberations.

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Consistent with that and with the burden being on

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the government, the defendant in a criminal case, as I've told

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you already, doesn't need to prove he's innocent, doesn't need

15

to prove anything.

16

remain silent, which means he's got the choice to testify or

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not to testify as he sees fit.

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He's presumed innocent, has a right to

It is a bedrock principle of our criminal justice

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system, he has a right to remain silent and a right not to

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have the jury hold it against him if he chooses not to

21

testify, so no inference can be drawn against him if in fact

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he chooses not to testify in this try.

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The trial will proceed in the following way:

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will hear first from counsel in what we call opening

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statements.

You

You will hear from Mr. Goldsmith on behalf of the

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government and then Ms. Harris on behalf of Mr. Zazi.

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The government has to make an opening statement.

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The defendant, consistent with everything I've said so far,

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has an opportunity but no obligation to make an opening

5

statement.

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I have been informed before you came into the

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courtroom that the defendant has chosen to avail himself of

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that opportunity, so you will hear from Miss Harris after you

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hear from Mr. Goldsmith.

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Maybe the most important thing to be said about

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opening statements is that they are not themselves evidence.

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The evidence on which you will base your verdicts in the case

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will be the testimony you hear from that witness stand and any

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exhibits that I receive in evidence during the course of the

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trial.

16

So what the lawyers say to you directly from that

17

podium in opening statements and then later on in summations

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is not evidence.

19

opening statements are the lawyers' opportunity to tell you

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what they think the evidence in the case will prove.

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It doesn't mean it's not important.

The

After openings the government will proceed in its

22

efforts to prove the charges in the case.

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will call witnesses, they will be placed under oath, subjected

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to direct examination by one of the prosecutors, subjected to

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cross-examination at the defendant's option by one of his

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The prosecutors

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counsel.

Sometimes there is redirect, recross, all in an

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effort to give each side a full and fair chance to bring out

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from that witness the testimony that side wants to bring out.

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There will come a point when one of the prosecutors

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stands up and says "the government rests," or "the United

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States rests."

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opportunity, but again I emphasize, no obligation to present

8

evidence in defense of the charges.

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At that point the defendant has an

If the defendant avails himself of that opportunity,

10

he will proceed in the same way; one of his lawyers will call

11

a witness, or witnesses, they will be placed under oath, the

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defense lawyers will conduct a direct examination, the

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prosecutors will cross, and so on.

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There will come a point when both sides rest.

Then

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the lawyers have a chance to speak to you again in what we

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call summations or closing arguments.

17

instructions, on the elements of the crimes charged, and I'll

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give you some instructions about evaluating evidence in your

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deliberations as well.

Then I will give you

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After all that happens, then and only then it will

21

be appropriate for you to discuss the case among yourselves.

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I talked to you about this Wednesday when you were sworn in.

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Until then please don't discuss the case.

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The discussion about a case can cause opinions to form and

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even if those opinions were preliminary and subject to change

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I told you why.

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it wouldn't be right for you to make up your mind even

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preliminarily, even subject to change before you heard all the

3

evidence in the case and the lawyers' arguments and my

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instructions to you on the law.

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So make sure you don't talk about the case.

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Sometimes jurors very innocently will go back on a break and

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want to talk about a witness' testimony and that's okay

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because they forget, but there are 18 of you, you won't all 18

9

forget.

One of you will are remember and say, "Whoa, Judge

10

Gleeson said don't discuss the case.

11

discuss the case among yourselves until it comes time to

12

deliberate.

13

All right.

So don't

During the course of the trial lawyers will object,

14

that's what lawyers do, they object.

15

lawyer if he or she makes an objection, they are just doing

16

their job protecting their side's interest in the case.

17

Never hold it against a

When they do object, it calls upon me to do my job,

18

which is to decide if what has been objected, it it's a

19

question, whether you ought to hear the answer to that

20

question.

21

document or something, then my job is to determine whether

22

under the Rules of Evidence I ought to receive it in evidence,

23

which means, by the way, it's available for your inspection,

24

but not always right on the spot.

25

If the objection is to a physical exhibit, a

Don't be perplexed if someone offers a document into

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evidence and I receive it and you don't see it.

2

never see it.

3

available for your inspection during deliberations.

4

Sometimes you

Sometimes you see it in summations, but it's

Anyway, to get back to the point.

Sometimes for me

5

to do my job right, to rule on the objection, I can benefit

6

from a little more argument as to what the basis of the

7

objection is, what the other side's response is and it

8

wouldn't make much sense to have that back and forth in your

9

presence because the conversation might include the answer to

10

the question.

11

If I were to rule the question out of bounds it

12

wouldn't make much sense to have exposed you to the answer to

13

it.

14

out of your presence.

15

sometimes keep you waiting.

So sometimes I invite them up to sidebar and hear them
We do it out of your hearing and

16

I mention it now to ask you in advance for your

17

patience if that happens during the course of this trial.

18

try to keep those sidebars to a minimum, but sometimes they're

19

necessary and that's why we're doing it.

20

patience if that happens during the course of this trial.

21

So I appreciate your

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THE COURT:

If I overrule an objection, and you hear

2

the answer to the question, and you'll see the objected-to

3

exhibit, don't give it greater weight.

4

important evidence because it came in over objection.

5

just part of the evidentiary mix, like all the other evidence

6

in the case.

7

Don't think it's more
It's

On the other side of the coin, if I sustain an

8

objection, you won't hear the answer.

You won't see the

9

exhibit, if that's what's been objected to, and by no means

10

should you speculate as to what the answer would have been or

11

what the document contained.

12

Forget it.

13

I've ruled it out of bounds.

We'll move on.
I made it possible for you, or Ilene has made it

14

possible for you, to take notes, if you want.

15

fair.

16

want to.

17

ahead.

18

We all take notes.

Seems only

You ought to be allowed to if you

You don't have to, but if you want to, go right

A couple of things about the notes I ought to tell

19

you up front.

20

it does come time for you to deliberate, share your views

21

about the testimony and the weight and effect of the evidence.

22

Don't let one juror's voice in the jury room have greater

23

weight because that juror happened to be a copious notetaker

24

and another juror wasn't.

25

One is obvious, but I'll say it, anyway.

Right?

Don't let that happen.

Less obvious, just as important, is, sometimes

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

When

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1

jurors don't quite remember exactly what the testimony was.

2

Sometimes, frequently, jurors will have a disagreement as to

3

precisely what the testimony was.

4

happens with you, you won't be resolving that failure of

5

recollection or that disagreement by reference to somebody's

6

notes.

7

out during the course of the trial.

8

every word that's said, the official record of the

9

proceedings.

If either of those things

See, we have court reporters here.

They'll be in and

They are taking down

If there comes a point when you need to know

10

precisely what a witness said, you'll ask for a readback, and

11

we'll either read it back to you, or send the transcript into

12

the jury room, so you have the testimony.

13

become your quasi-official record of the case.

14

Don't let the notes
All right.

You'll see even in a short trial like this one that

15

a courthouse is a little community unto itself and it's almost

16

inevitable, during the course of the trial, as you come and

17

go, you'll run into one of the participants in the trial, and

18

you, being decent folks, will say to someone that you have

19

been seeing every day in the courtroom, you know, Good

20

morning, Good evening, as the case may be, and they'll ignore

21

you.

22

an order I'm about to put them under not to communicate with

23

you at all.

24
25

They won't even say hi.

That's because they are under

I hereby order all the people in the well of the
court at both tables to have no communication whatsoever with

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

any member of the jury during the course of the trial.

2

The reason for that is, it's another kind of

3

hard-and-fast rule, not discussing the case.

I'll tell you

4

the reason for this rule.

5

one of the prosecutors or one of the defense lawyers to talk

6

to you about the case outside the courtroom.

7

inappropriateness of that, talking to you about the case

8

outside the courtroom.

9

important as substance, and it wouldn't look right even if you

You know, it wouldn't be right for

You can feel the

Sometimes appearances can be just as

10

are talking about the weather or Mets or something, it

11

wouldn't look right if you were having a conversation with one

12

of these people during the course of the trial.

13

hard-and-fast rule where they have no communication with you

14

whatsoever during the course of this trial, and if they do,

15

they'll be violating an order of the Court.

16

to you so you don't think they are being rude if you say hi to

17

them in the elevator and they are stonefaced, they ignore you.

18

They are not being rude.

19

just placed them under.

20

they fail to comply with that rule.

21

through Ilene if there's any communication with you

22

whatsoever, no matter how innocuous it may seem, emanating

23

from one of the people at either of the two tables in the well

24

of the court.

25

Hence, that

And I mention it

They are complying with the order I
In fact, I want to know from you if
I want to know from you

Lastly, and this has become so much more important

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

the last few years, before I turn it over to Mr. Goldsmith for

2

his opening statement, is to reiterate to you what I have

3

already said to you about communication.

4

that you respect the reality that when you do retire to

5

deliberate and discuss the evidence, reach verdicts, that the

6

grist for the deliberation mill be only the evidence that came

7

out during the course of the trial.

8

find you.

9

searching for information about the trial or this kind of

It's very important

Don't let information

Certainly don't go looking for it.

Don't go

10

trial, the people involved in the trial.

11

you.

12

the case, put the newspaper down.

13

want to save that stuff, you want to save clippings, get a

14

friend, a loved one, to clip them for you.

If there's a newspaper report or radio broadcast about

15

Turn the radio off.

No communicating out, either.

16

blogging, no e-mailing.

17

case.

18

This case is important to the government.

19

Mr. Zazi.

20

tweeting about your jury service.

21

you.

If you

No tweeting, no

You're jurors in a federal criminal

I was going to say important.

Respect your role in it.

They are all important.
It's important to

Don't go blogging or
Don't let information find

All right.

22
23

Don't let it find

That's all I have.

Are you ready with your opening

statement?

24

MR. GOLDSMITH:

25

Good morning.

Yes, your Honor.

Thank you.

In September 2009, FBI agents across

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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242

1

the United States were frantically trying to stop a terrorist

2

attack aimed at New York City.

3

target, they didn't know when the attack was supposed to take

4

place, but they knew the plot as serious, and they needed

5

answers fast.

6

They didn't know the specific

That man, the defendant, Mohammed Wali Zazi, decided

7

to stand in the FBI's way.

He lied to the FBI, and he

8

convinced other people to lie to the FBI.

9

destroyed evidence.

He concealed and

Because of the defendant, the FBI lost

10

valuable time and valuable evidence, and that's why we're here

11

today.

12

In September 2009, the FBI's prime suspect was a man

13

named Najibullah Zazi.

14

Amanullah Zazi and two other men had gathered in Pakistan,

15

where they met up with recruiters for Al-Qaeda.

16

A year earlier, Najibullah, his cousin

Now, Najibullah and Amanullah were living together

17

in Colorado along with Najibullah's family, and the other two

18

men were living in Queens.

19

On September 9, 2009, Najibullah rented a car in

20

Denver, Colorado and drove across the country to New York.

21

carried with him a laptop computer containing detailed

22

instructions for building a bomb.

23

day before the anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

24
25

He

He arrived in Queens on the

The FBI and the NYPD put all of their resources into
uncovering Najibullah's plans and identifying who he was

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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243

1

working with.

2

Najibullah and on the other men who had been in Pakistan,

3

Amanullah in Colorado and the two men in Queens.

4

The FBI put twenty-four-hour surveillances on

The FBI tapped phones, talked to informants,

5

searched apartments in Queens and elsewhere.

6

media learned about the searches of those apartments in

7

Queens, and soon members of the SWAT teams flashed across

8

television sets all over the country.

9

Eventually, the

The defendant was watching those reports carefully,

10

because he's the father of Najibullah Zazi and the uncle of

11

Amanullah Zazi, and when the defendant learned that Najibullah

12

was a prime suspect in a terrorist plot, he made a choice a

13

choice to obstruct the government's investigation by lying, by

14

concealing and destroying evidence, by making it harder for

15

the FBI to get the answers that they so desperately needed.

16

In September and October of 2009, the defendant and

17

other members of his family actively obstructed the

18

government's investigation over and over.

19

to cover Najibullah's tracks.

20

destroyed chemicals and other equipment that Najibullah had

21

collected for his bomb.

22

evidence and they made sure the FBI would never get it.

23

First, they tried

They concealed and then

They knew the FBI would want that

Next, the defendant lied.

In interviews with the

24

FBI, first he lied about a man named Ahmad Wais Afzali.

25

Afzali was a religious leader in Queens whose mosque the

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

defendant and his family had attended.

2

Afzali and asked him if he knew Najibullah or Amanullah or the

3

two men from Queens.

4

defendant and tipped him off about the investigation, and when

5

the FBI asked the defendant about Afzali, he denied having

6

spoken to him.

7

The NYPD approached

Afzali turned around and called the

In fact, he said he didn't even know him.

That was not his only lie.

The defendant also lied

8

about Amanullah Zazi, his nephew, the one who had been in

9

Pakistan and was now living with Najibullah and the defendant

10

in Colorado.

11

his son, insisting that he had adopted him years before in

12

Kabul, Afghanistan, when Amanullah was two years old, even

13

though that had never happened.

14

The defendant told the FBI that Amanullah was

The defendant told other members of his family to

15

tell the same lie.

16

received subpoenas to testify in front of the grand jury in

17

Brooklyn here in this courthouse, the defendant told them to

18

repeat the lie and they did.

19

to stop this terrorist attack on this city, the FBI and the

20

grand jury wasted precious time and resources unraveling the

21

defendant's lies.

22

In fact, when some members of his family

And so, in the midst of trying

Now, let's be clear:

23

with being a terrorist.

24

of Al-Qaeda.

25

plot in advance.

The defendant is not charged

He's not charged with being a member

He's not charged with knowing about Najibullah's
He's charged with obstructing the

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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245

1

government's investigation of that plot, because when the

2

defendant made the choice to lie, to hide and destroy

3

evidence, he committed crimes.

4

The defendant is charged, as the judge told you, in

5

this case with three counts of obstruction of justice.

During

6

this trial, we will use a variety of the evidence to prove to

7

you that he committed those crimes.

8

You'll hear testimony from FBI agents who

9

participated in the investigation of Najibullah, Amanullah and

10

their conspirators, coconspirators.

11

firsthand about the plot to obstruct the government's

12

investigation from people who participated in it.

13

witnesses have pled guilty to crimes, and they'll be

14

testifying in this trial in hopes of receiving lesser

15

sentences for those crimes.

16

testimony carefully.

17

corroborated by all of the other evidence in this case.

18

You will also hear

Now, those

You should consider their

When you do, you'll find that it is

For example, you'll see grand jury transcripts of

19

the testimony that some of the defendants' relatives gave here

20

in Brooklyn.

21

recorded on the wiretaps that I mentioned earlier.

22

those calls, you'll hear the defendant talking to Ahmad Wais

23

Afzali, the man he told the FBI he didn't know.

24

Najibullah's bomb-making recipes, and you'll hear from an FBI

25

chemist about the residue of the bomb ingredients that were

You'll hear telephone conversations that were

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

In one of

You'll see

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1

found in the drains in the house in Colorado, where Najibullah

2

had left his supplies.

3

When this trial is over, we'll ask you to hold the

4

defendant accountable for his choices, accountable for hiding

5

and destroying evidence, accountable for lying.

6

to reach the only conclusion consistent with the evidence:

7

That the defendant is guilty of the crimes charged.

8

THE COURT:

9

Ms. Harris.

10

MS. HARRIS:

We'll ask you

Thank you, Mr. Goldsmith.

Good morning.

When it comes to

11

families, nothing is ever simple, and that's what this case is

12

about.

13

Mohammed Wali Zazi did not know about Najibullah's bomb blot.

It's about a family, about a father and his son.

14

When Mr. Zazi learned on September 11, 2009 that the

15

FBI was looking for his son, he was confused and in the dark.

16

You're going to hear this in his own words.

17

calls Najibullah, who is still in New York, and he asks, Son,

18

what is going on?

19

done?

20

subway.

21

investigation of that plot.

22

conceal any evidence, he did not tell other people to destroy

23

or conceal evidence, he did not lie to the FBI, and he did not

24

tell other people to lie.

25

intention of obstructing justice.

What has happened?

On that day, he

What have you boys

This case is not about a plot to bomb a New York City
This case is not about obstruction into an

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

Mr. Zazi did not destroy or

Above all, Mr. Zazi had no

CSR

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247

You are going to hear a painful story about a family

2

put under intense and overwhelming pressure.

3

conducting twenty-four-hour surveillances, interviewing each

4

family member over and over again, media from around the world

5

bombarded them with questions day and night.

6

family lost their jobs.

7

Life as they knew it was over.

8
9
10

The FBI was

Many in the Zazi

Some were forced out of their homes.

Now, under this intense pressure, some family
members turned on other family members, and it turned out that
those family members, unlike Mr. Zazi, had something to hide.

11

You're going to hear from two of these family

12

members at this trial.

13

confused with Zazi -- Naqib Jaji.

14

brother-in-law, with whom Najibullah lived in Denver, Colorado

15

for several months before the trip to New York.

16

The first is Naqib Jaji -- not to be
He's Mr. Zazi's own

It was in Naqib's house that Najibullah supposedly

17

stashed these bomb-making chemicals, and Naqib, unlike Mr.

18

Zazi, knew about these chemicals months before anybody else.

19
20

THE COURT:
screen.

Excuse me one second.

I see it on my

Do you want it up here?

21

MS. COLSON:

Yes, your Honor.

22

MS. HARRIS:

Naqib Jaji.

23

The second is Amanullah Zazi, Mr. Zazi's nephew,

24

whom he helped raise.

25

he has a little bit of a drug problem.

Thank you.

Amanullah is twenty-four years old, and

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

As you heard from the

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248

1

government, he was actually in Pakistan when Najibullah went

2

there in 2008.

3

training camps and get in touch with Al-Qaeda.

4

for Amanullah Zazi, none of this might have happened.

5

under pressure, Naqib and Amanullah did what they had to do to

6

save themselves.

7

turned on Mr. Zazi.

8

come to court, sit in that chair and lie, all to make sure

9

that they themselves don't have to go to jail.

10

He actually helped Najibullah get to the
Who knows but

They turned on their own relative.

So,

They

Desperate and afraid, they are going to

But Mr. Zazi, he didn't know about his son's

11

activities.

12

took no shortcuts.

13

truth comes out and justice is done.

14

So, under all this pressure, he made no deals, he
He is here today to make sure that the

Now, you will hear that Mohammed Wali Zazi has tried

15

to do the right thing for a long time.

16

country in 1990 without a penny to his name, he was poorly

17

educated, he didn't speak any English, and he didn't have many

18

skills.

19

as a yellow-cab taxi driver right here in New York, working

20

twelve hours a day, six or seven days a week to support his

21

wife and children, all so that they could have a better life.

22

He became a United States citizen, sent his children to school

23

in Queens, and strived to live the American dream.

24
25

He came to this

But he didn't let that stop him.

He worked very hard

Fast-forward to 2009, two years ago, in the summer.
After visiting his sister and brother-in-law in Denver,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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249

1

Mr. Zazi decided to move his family to Colorado, as well,

2

where, as you can imagine, life is a little less expensive, a

3

little slower.

4

crashing down when he learned that the FBI was looking for his

5

son.

6

But that promise of a better life came

Now, what did Mr. Zazi do when he got that

7

information?

8

He did not drive him across the Mexican border.

9

to see a lawyer, and then he took him directly to the FBI.

10

He did not buy him a one-way ticket to Pakistan.
He took him

Now, when Mr. Zazi brought his own son to the FBI,

11

it turned out that the FBI wanted to talk to him, as well, and

12

he readily agreed.

13

friendly, polite and accommodating.

14

And you will hear that Mr. Zazi was

Now, communication wasn't always easy.

Despite

15

being in this country for twenty years, Mr. Zazi does not

16

speak English perfectly.

17

always make himself understood, and he has trouble

18

understanding and expressing nuances, but he did his best.

19

volunteered for questioning on two separate days, and he

20

provided as much information as he could.

21

He has a heavy accent.

He can't

He

Nevertheless, despite his cooperation, the

22

government has dragged Mr. Zazi to court and accused him of

23

obstructing justice on two supposed lies, the first about this

24

religious leader, Ahmad Wais Afzali, and one about his nephew

25

Amanullah.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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Opening - Harris
1

250

But listen and look carefully at the evidence.

2

will see that these were not lies at all.

3

misunderstandings and miscommunications.

You

They were
They were not lies.

4

Now, not only did the -- not only did Mr. Zazi try

5

to cooperate with the FBI, but he had nothing to do with the

6

destruction of the chemicals, the pair of goggles and the mask

7

that were supposedly at Naqib Jaji's house.

8
9

You will hear a lot of about other family members,
Sultan Bibi, Mr. Zazi's wife, and Amanullah, the nephew

10

supposedly pouring chemicals down the drain and cutting up a

11

mask.

12

Mr. Zazi had anything to do with this.

13

destroy or hide anything.

14

Whatever the plan was with respect to the chemicals and the

15

evidence, he didn't have anything to do with it.

16

But what you are not going to hear is any evidence that
He didn't agree to

He didn't help hide anything.

So, who is going to try to link Mr. Zazi to this

17

supposed conspiracy to get rid of the stuff and lie about it?

18

Those two family members that I told you about, Naqib Jaji and

19

Amanullah Zazi.

20

they are getting in exchange for their testimony.

21

When these two testify, keep in mind what

Naqib and Amanullah pled guilty to crimes.

Both

22

pled guilty to destroying evidence.

Amanullah also pled

23

guilty to helping Najibullah getting training in a terrorist

24

camp.

25

going to testify to take care of themselves.

Both could go to jail for a long time, so they are

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

They are going

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251
1

to say, All my lies, everything I did wrong, Mr. Zazi told me

2

to do that.

3

are getting their own ticket out of jail.

4

But just remember, by pointing the finger, they

Now, even though this case is not about terrorism,

5

you're still going to hear a lot about terrorism.

6

remember that when you hear the details of the bomb plot and

7

the urgent investigation into that plot, this is not

8

Najibullah's trial.

9

agents are going to testify about how the plot was discovered,

He pled guilty.

Please

In this case, a lot of

10

how they stopped it, all their efforts to try to crack the

11

case.

12

when we do question them, we are not going to second-guess

13

their efforts or question their work.

We might not have much to ask some of those agents, and

14

On trial today is no terrorist, but a father.

15

Remember his words:

16

happened?

17

Son, what is going on?

What has

What have you guy done?
So, listen carefully.

Mr. Zazi did not know what

18

was happening.

Mr. Zazi tried to do the right thing by his

19

family and by the law.

20

carefully the lies of the family members who are going to come

21

to court to save themselves.

22

this case, they'll be only one verdict compelled by the

23

evidence:

Put the fear aside and scrutinize

If you do that, at the end of

Not guilty on all counts.

24

Thank you.

25

THE COURT:

Okay.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

Thank you, Ms. Harris.

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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Marten - direct - Marrus
1

Call your first witness, please.

2

MS. MARRUS:

3

The government calls Special Agent

Robert Martin.

4

THE COURT:

5

If you'd stand behind that chair.

6

R O B E R T

7

Good morning.

Come on up here, please.

M A R T E N,

having been duly sworn, was examined and

8

testified as follows:

9

THE CLERK:

10
11

252

State your name and spell it.

THE WITNESS:

My name is Robert Martin, M A R T E N,

first name Robert.

12

MS. MARRUS:

13

THE COURT:

May I inquire, your Honor?
Yes, please do.

14

DIRECT EXAMINATION

15

BY MS. MARRUS:

16

Q

17

where you work?

18

A

19

Enforcement.

20

Q

21

Enforcement?

22

A

23

to become Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

24

Q

25

Enforcement?

Good morning, Agent Marten.

Where I work?

Could you tell the jury

I work at Immigration and Customs

How long have you been with Immigration and Customs

I started in August of '97 with INS, which merged in 2003

What is your position with Immigration and customs

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 35 of 280 PageID #: 1110
Marten - direct - Marrus
1

A

I'm a special agent.

2

Q

Where are currently assigned?

3

A

I currently work in the New York office of the

4

Immigration and Customs Enforcement on the Joint Terrorism

5

Task Group.

6

Q

Please explain what the joint terrorism task force is.

7

A

It's a task force run by the FBI that conducts

8

counter-terrorism investigations.

9

Q

253

Agent Marten, are you familiar with the travel records

10

that are kept as a matter of routine by the United States

11

Government?

12

A

Yes, I am.

13

Q

Can you just explain what types of records the United

14

States Government maintains?

15

A

16

records for people exiting and returning to the United States.

17

Q

Can you explain where that information comes from?

18

A

There's two primary databases.

19

TECS, Treasury Enforcement Communications System.

In the data bases, there is departure records and inbound

20

One is referred to as

A more modern Windows-based version of that system

21

is called ATSP, Automatic Targeting System for Passengers.

22

Q

23

is stored.

24

A

25

airlines themselves that fly in and out of the United States

You explained about the data bases that the information
Where does the actual information come from?

The primary information is put into the system from the

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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254

1

into TECS and ATSP that mirror each other.

2

Q

3

that's stored in those data bases?

4

A

5

name and date of birth, travel information and travel

6

documents.

7

Q

Who actually sends that information to the database?

8

A

The airline industries themselves, once the manifest is

9

finalized that you boarded the flight and the flight has

Can you explain for the jury the types of information

Along with the basics, your air carrier, your flight,

10

pulled away from the gate they transmit that information into

11

the system that is CBP's TECS and ATSP.

12

Q

Do you they send that information because of regulations?

13

A

It's required, entering and existing the United States.

14

Q

As an immigration customs enforcement agent do you have

15

access as to those data bases?

16

A

Yes, I do.

17

Q

In connection with those, have you reviewed travel

18

records for particular individuals?

19

A

Yes, I have.

20
21

MS. MARRUS:

Your Honor, can I show the witness only

some documents, please?

22

THE COURT:

23

It's working.

24
25

he sees.

Yes.
Look to your right.

You can see what

You can adjust the document accordingly.
MS. MARRUS:

It's not coming up here.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

That's okay.

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 37 of 280 PageID #: 1112
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1

Q

Agent Marten, are you able to see that document?

2

A

I see the bottom half.

3

push it to your right.

4

Q

5

Government's Exhibit 1.

6

A

Yes I do.

7

Q

What are they, generally speaking?

8

A

This is a record of outbound travel.

9

Q

For a particular individual?

10

A

It's for Najibullah Zazi.

11

Q

Did you obtain this information from the database that

12

you had identified?

13

A

This is an ATSP record.

14

Q

I show you what is marked for identification as

15

Government's Exhibit 2.

16

A

17

travel record.

18

Q

19

Government's Exhibit 3?

255

If you can bring it down some and

There you go.

I show you what is marked for identification as

Yes, I see that.

Do you recognize these document?

Are you able to see that?
That's a similar record, an outbound

Outbound of the seat for Adis Medunjanin.

Showing you what has been marked for identification as

20

THE COURT:

21

MS. MARRUS:

Are there a loft these?
One more.

22

A

This is again an outbound travel record from the ATSP

23

system for Zarein Ahmedzay.

24

Q

25

for identification as Government's Exhibit 4, what is that?

Showing you Government's Exhibit 4, what has been marked

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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256

1

A

2

Amanullah Zazi.

3

Q

4

were these all obtained from the data basis that he testified

5

about?

6

A

7
8

That is an inbound record from the TECS system for

And are all of the records contained in these exhibits,

Yes.
MS. MARRUS:

Your Honor, I offer Government's

Exhibit 1, 2, 3 and 4 into evidence.

9

MS. COLSON:

No objection.

10

THE COURT:

Received.

11

(So marked.)

12

Q

13

going to come up on the screen.

14

A

15
16

Now, Agent Marten, I'm going -- I'm not sure if this is

There it is.
MS. MARRUS:

in evidence.

17

I'm sorry.

Your Honor, this is not yet

I apologize.

THE COURT:

That's all right.

18

Q

19

identification, Government's Exhibit 1 A, do you recognize

20

that?

21

A

22

Agent Marten, I'm showing you what has been marked for

Yes, I do.
(Continued on next page.)

23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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257

1

CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. MARRUS:

3

Q

What is that?

4

A

There is a spreadsheet of travel records for the three

5

subjects, Zarein Ahmedzay, Najibullah Zazi and Adis

6

Medunjanin.

7

Q

8

within Exhibits one, two and three?

9

A

10
11

All this information is seen within this spreadsheets are

Yes.
MS. MARRUS:

At this time I offer Government

Exhibit 1-A into evidence.

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. HARRIS:

14

THE COURT:

15

MS. MARRUS:

16

THE COURT:

Any objection?
No.
Received.
May I publish?
Yes.

17

Q

Agent Marten, can you explain to the jury the information

18

that you have summarized here on this spreadsheet?

19

A

20

the top, it shows what's referred to as the crossing date,

21

whether it was inbound or out bound.

22

first record, outbound record, August 28th, 2008 --

23

Q

24

should mark.

25

A

Listed by subject, starting with Najibullah Zazi across

Can you indicate on the screen?

That happens to be his

Press the screen.

There you go.

SS

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It

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 40 of 280 PageID #: 1115
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1

Q

Thank you.

2

A

That's the outbound record.

3

THE COURT:

258

Not the most precise thing in the

4

world.

If you want to use a pencil or pen to show him?

5

Q

6

crossing date?

7

A

8

2008, outbound trip, departed Newark Liberty International

9

Airport in Newark, New Jersey on Qatar Airways Flight 84 to

You're indicating the first row underneath where it says

Yes, crossing date for Najibullah Zazi, August 28th,

10

Geneva International Airport.

11

Q

12

you know whether or not that was his final destination during

13

that trip?

14

A

That was the first leg of his trip.

15

Q

Why do you say that?

16

A

He returns of January 15th, 2009 through Doha

17

International Airport in Qatar to New York JFK International.

18

Q

Can you mark on the screen where the return is indicated?

19

A

Right here, departure airport, Doha International

20

Airport.

21

to the left -- it's not marking --

22

Q

What date did he return?

23

A

Between those dots to the left, shows you January 15th,

24

2009.

25

Q

It says he arrived in Geneva International Airport. Do

He returned to JFK under arrival airport, when I go
there you go.

Are there travel records summarized for other individuals

SS

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259

1

on this spreadsheet as well?

2

A

3

Ahmedzay, in the middle.

4

Q

What flight did he take out?

5

A

He took, departed the same flight with the original

6

subject individual, August 28th out of Newark on the same

7

flight, same carrier, same flight number flying to Geneva

8

International Airport as well.

9

Q

What did Zarein Ahmedzay return from that trip?

10

A

Returned on January 22nd, 2009.

11

Q

From where?

12

A

The airport he entered the flight was Doha International

13

Airport in Qatar.

14

Airport.

15

Q

To your knowledge where is Qatar?

16

A

In the Middle East.

17

Q

Is there a third passenger information listed here?

18

A

Yes, third subjected Adis Medunjanin in the bottom,

19

departed August 28th, 2008.

20

Q

Is that the same flight as the two other individuals?

21

A

Same flight, Qatar Airways, Flight 84.

22

in Geneva International Airport on August 28th, 2008.

23

Q

When did he return to the United States?

24

A

He returned to the United States on September 25th, 2008.

25

He again boarded the flight at Doha International Airport in

Yes, two other subjects.

SS

The next one would be Zarein

He landed at New York JFK International

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Again, it arrives

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1

Qatar, arrived at Newark International on September 25th,

2

2008.

3
4

MS. MARRUS:

If I may show the witness another

exhibit that is not yet in evidence?

5

THE COURT:

Sure.

6

Q

Agent Marten, you recognize this?

7

A

Yes, this is the same travel records put on the

8

spreadsheet For Amanullah Zazi.

9

Q

Government Exhibit 4A for identification, is it within

10

the records admitted under government Exhibit 4?

11

A

12
13

Yes.
THE COURT:

Is 4 a spreadsheet --

spreadsheet?

14

MS. MARRUS:

15

THE COURT:

16

4A is a

Yes.
Any objection to this exhibit?

What is

this number?

17

MS. MARRUS:

4-A.

18

THE COURT:

19

MS. COLSON:

20

THE COURT:

21

(So marked.)

I apologize.

Any objection?
No.
Received.

22

Q

Whose travel records does this summarize?

23

A

Relate to Amanullah Zazi.

24

Q

Are these all the traffic records you found for Amanullah

25

Zazi?

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1

A

No.

2

Q

Just for two particular trips?

3

A

These are the inbound and outbound for two particular

4

trips.

5

Q

6

trip on this spreadsheet?

7

A

8

on October 28th, 2003.

9

Q

When did he return to the United States?

10

A

Returns April 4th, 2004.

11

Q

Where did he fly to based on the records that you

12

reviewed?

13

A

14

Airlines Flight 718, leaving JFK International Airport,

15

arriving at Karachi Airport, Pakistan.

16

Q

Can you indicate?

17

A

Sure.

18

Q

Is there a second trip indicated on Government Exhibit

19

4A?

20

A

21

outbound and he departs JFK International Airport, arrived at

22

Heathrow in England.

23

Q

24

your review of the travel records that was Amanullah Zazi's

25

final destination?

Can you just explain, show the jury what is the earliest

The earlier trip I have is outbound of the United States

When he departed, he was on Pakistani International

Yes, another trip where he departs June 29th, 2004,

Again, Agent Marten, do you know whether or not based on

SS

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262

1

A

No, it was likely a connecting flight onward to another

2

country, likely Pakistan.

3

have him returning to Doha, Qatar, to New York JFK Airport on

4

a Qatar Airways Flight 83, April 16th of 2009.

5

Q

6

let's say, England indicated on the spreadsheet, is the record

7

of where Amanullah Zazi would have gone from England reported

8

in the system you reviewed?

9

A

We have him returning because we

Just to be clear, if this was a connecting flight out of,

No, these systems, they have the flight you arrived or

10

depart from the United States.

11

all not captured in the system.

12

MS. MARRUS:

13

THE COURT:

14

Any cross?

15

MS. COLSON:

No cross.

16

THE COURT:

Thank you.

17

Have a good day.

18

THE COURT:

19

E R I C

20
21

If you travel onward, they're

I have no further questions.
Thank you, Ms. Marrus.

That means you're excused.

Call your next witness.
J U R G E N S O N

having been duly sworn/affirmed, was examined
and testified as follows:

22

THE CLERK:

State and spell your name.

23

THE WITNESS:

Eric Jurgenson.

24
25

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1

DIRECT EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. BERGER:

3

Q

Good morning.

4

A

Good morning.

5

Q

Who do you work for?

6

A

Special agent assigned to the Denver field office in

7

Colorado.

8

Q

Is that the FBI?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

How long have you worked for the FBI?

11

A

Nine years.

12

Q

You testified you work in Denver?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Assigned to any particular squad?

15

A

Assigned to National Security Squad 3 which is

16

Afghanistan/Pakistan international terrorism.

17

Q

How long have you been on that squad?

18

A

Since the day I arrived in Denver.

19

Q

What kind of training did you receive for your position

20

as a special agent with the FBI?

21

A

22

training course at Quantico, Virginia.

23

completion of that course, I was assigned to Denver and have

24

since that time taken regular training courses as part of the

25

job.

There's a 17 week-long -- at that time 17 weeks --

SS

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Following that,

CSR

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1

Q

Directing your attention to September of 2009, were you

2

involved in an investigation called Operation High Rise?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

When did you first become involved in the investigation?

5

A

My office was in receipt -- I was notified, I should say.

6

My office was in receipt of several e-mail messages, e-mail

7

communications.

8

resolved to an individual living in Colorado.

9

messages contained language consistent with terrorism

Those e-mail communications, several of them
Those e-mail

10

activity.

11

Q

12

information?

13

A

14

determined they did --

15

the IP resolved to, also set up 24/7 surveillance coverage on

16

that particular address.

We started to issue subpoenas.

17

started to task sources.

We started to look at travel

18

records, immigration files, things of that nature.

19

Q

Did you actually open an official investigation?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

What was the date you opened the investigation?

22

A

September 7th, 2009.

23

Q

I'll show you what's been marked as Government Exhibits

24

25A through C.

25

is this?

What did you do as a result of receiving this

We did some further checking on the IP addresses and

SS

we determined an exact address where

I'll show it on the Elmo.

OCR

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First, 25-A.

CSR

We

What

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 47 of 280 PageID #: 1122
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265

1

A

That's two of the e-mail messages as I explained earlier

2

that my office was in receipt of.

3

Q

And 25B, do recognize this?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Is this also one of the e-mail messages you received?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

25C, do you recognize this?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

What is that?

10

A

That's another e-mail message that we received.

11

Q

Special Agent Jurgenson, are these the e-mail messages

12

you testified that led to the investigation?

13

A

Yes.

14

MS. BERGER:

Offer 25A, B and C.

15

THE COURT:

Any objection?

16

MS. COLSON:

No, Judge.

17

THE COURT:

18

MS. BERGER:

19

THE COURT:

Received.
Publish to the jury?
Yes.

20

Q

Starting with Government Exhibit 25 A, starting with the

21

e-mail on the bottom, can you read the "from" address?

22

A

Njbzaz@yahoo.com.

23

Q

Who is the e-mail from?

24

A

Njbzaz@yahoo.com.

25

Q

The date?

SS

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266

1

A

Sunday, September 6th, 2009.

2

Q

The subject line?

3

A

Zahid here.

4

Q

Were you able to subpoena information on the IP addresses

5

of this e-mail?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

Were you able to subpoena information on the

8

sana_pakhtana address?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Where did that resolve?

11

A

Sana_pakhtana, Pakistan.

12

Q

The njbzaz, where did that resolve to?

13

A

An address in 2259 East Smoky Hill Road, Aurora.

14

Q

Are you able to describe the person on this address?

15

A

Mohammed Wali Zazi.

16

Q

Were you able to make any determinations who was likely

17

using that e-mail account?

18

A

19

indicated earlier, we had set up surveillance at the

20

residence, started to identify people who were living there,

21

an individual by the name of Najibullah Zazi, the name

22

Najibullah Zazi is consistent with the njbzaz@yahoo.com.

23

Q

24

says.

25

A

There were several different things.

First of all, as I

On this same e-mail, read aloud what the text of that

AOA,,hi how r u,how z ur life going,,i need MUhammad

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1

email adress or phone number.if u have thn reply me on the

2

same adress n whch i mailed u...more over how is ur business

3

and family.ifu need sm thng thn plz tell me every time,pay my

4

salam to all friends n family members.take ur good care n

5

ALLAH hafiz.

6

Q

Above it, is this a reply to that e-mail?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Who is the above e-mail from?

9

A

Njbzaz@yahoo.com address.

10

Q

What is the date of this?

11

A

September 6th, 2009.

12

Q

If you could read where I'm pointing right here, starting

13

here?

14

A

15

also slam on ur friends and family. how is ur work everything

16

is all right. zahid listen i need a amount of the one mixing

17

of [Flavor and gee oil} and i donot khow the amout plz right

18

away and my phone # is 303 -- 500-2877

19

Q

Did you do any investigation as to that phone number?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Were you able to determine who was using that phone

22

number?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Who is that?

25

A

Najibullah Zazi.

Zahid aslamulikum how r u and to good hear from u and

SS

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268

1

Q

I'm putting Government Exhibit 25B on the screen.

2

the e-mail from?

3

A

The njbzaz@yahoo.com address.

4

Q

Who is it sent to?

5

A

Sana_pakhtana @yahoo.com.

6

Q

Tell us the date and time.

7

A

September 6th, 2009, 7:21:51 AM.

8

Q

I'm going to put 25A back on this screen.

9

time this reply here was sent?

Who is

What was the

10

A

7:09 and 58 seconds AM.

11

Q

Government Exhibit 25B, is it fair to say that came about

12

20 minutes later?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Can you just read, starting where my pen is here?

15

A

All of us our here r good and working fine. plez reply to

16

what i asked u right away. the marriage is ready flour and

17

oil.

18

Q

19

on the bottom, is this the original e-mail that was also

20

contained in 25A?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Moving to the e-mail on the top here, what's the date on

23

this e-mail?

24

A

September 7th, 2009.

25

Q

What time?

Putting Government Exhibit 25C on the screen, the e-mail

SS

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1

A

9:32:26 PM.

2

Q

This is from the najib zazi coount?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Where I'm pointing right here, start reading from there.

5

A

Me and friends r all ok and plz sends me details about

6

about {gee flour} {mixtures} Right away plz

7

Q

8

investigation?

9

A

What about these emails that caused you to begin an

As I stated, there's language in there consistent with my

10

training, background.

11

things of that nature are consistent with terrorist activity

12

or planning.

13

Q

14

to begin an investigation?

15

A

16

e-mails, mixtures, right away, were very urgent, please, right

17

away I need this immediately.

18

in order, the three replies.

19

Those are terms such as marriage,

Is there anything else about the e-mails that caused you

Actually, two things.

Number one, the sender of the

In fact, they were sequential

In addition to that, the date of them was peculiar

20

to us as well it was an anniversary of the 9-11 attacks in

21

New York City.

22

Q

The e-mails were prior to 9-11?

23

A

Correct.

24

Q

In order to begin an investigation, what steps do you

25

have to take as an FBI agent?

SS

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1

A

Basically, we run our investigations on a tiered level,

2

start out with threat assessments, six different types of

3

threat assessments, graduates by severity of the information

4

to a preliminary investigation and then finally to a full

5

investigation which this investigation was.

6

Q

Do you need to get approval for opening an investigation?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

For a full investigation like this, what kinds of

9

approval do you need?

10

A

At that time, it was supervisory approval in addition to

11

a copy to headquarters unit back in Washington, D.C.

12

Q

13

order for a full investigation to be opened?

14

A

15

articulable facts.

16

Q

Who has to make those findings?

17

A

It starts out with me, the case agent, then is obviously

18

turned over, approved to executive management within the field

19

office.

20

Q

Then ultimately approved by headquarters, correct?

21

A

Copied to headquarters.

22

Q

What type of an investigation was this?

23

A

This was a full investigation.

24

Q

Who was the initial target of the investigation?

25

A

Najibullah Zazi.

Are there any kinds of findings that need to be made in

Yes.

Full investigations are based on specific and

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1

Q

Did there come a time you opened an investigation on

2

other targets?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Who?

5

A

There was an investigation opened Najibullah Zazi,

6

Najibullah has a cousin.

7

Mohammad Tariq Azai, his brother, also an investigation opened

8

on Mohammad Wali Zazi.

9

Q

There was an investigation opened on

Can you describe -- you testified before some of the

10

initial steps you took with this investigation.

I believe you

11

said in addition to getting the IP address information, you

12

conducted surveillance, travel records, things of this nature;

13

is that right?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Agent, did you have any information about Najibullah Zazi

16

before you began this investigation?

17

A

None.

18

Q

You testified you began surveillance of Najibullah Zazi.

19

When did that investigation begin?

20

A

21

September 7th, 2009.

22

Q

Were was Najibullah living at that time?

23

A

His father, parents, mother and father at the Smoky Hill

24

apartment in Aurora.

25

Q

That surveillance began in the late evening hours of

Where is that?

SS

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1

A

A suburb of Denver, located just east of the city.

2

Q

You testified about a few people that were living with

3

Najibullah.

4

A

I see Mohammad Wali Zazi seated at the defense table.

5

Q

Can you identify him by something he's wearing?

6

A

Got a gray jacket, suit coat on with glasses.

You see any of those people in court today?

7

THE COURT:

8

Any objection?

9

MS. COLSON:

10

Q

Identifying the defendant.

No.

I'm going to show you a few photographs.

11

MS. BERGER:

May I show the witness, your Honor?

12

THE COURT:

Go ahead.

13

Q

I'm showing you what's marked as Government Exhibit 6.

14

Who is this individual?

15

A

Najibullah Zazi.

16
17

THE COURT:

Are you going to put them all on, go

back and put them on again?

18

MS. BERGER:

19

THE COURT:

20

MS. BERGER:

21

THE COURT:

22

MS. COLSON:

Whatever.
You're going to offer it?
Yes.
Received, show him one at a time.
No objection, one shot of each

23

picture.

24

Q

Is this Najibullah Zazi, is that your testimony?

25

A

Yes.

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Q

2

Exhibit 8.

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Who is that?

5

A

Amanullah Zazi.

273

I'm now showing you what's marked as Government
You recognize this?

6

MS. BERGER:

Offered.

7

MS. COLSON:

No objection.

8

THE COURT:

9

(So marked.)

Received.

10

Q

I'll show you Government Exhibit 7.

11

A

Mohammed Wali Zazi.

12

MS. BERGER:

Offer Exhibit 7.

13

MS. COLSON:

No objection.

14

THE COURT:

15

(So marked.)

Received.

16

Q

Government Exhibit 10.

17

A

Sultan Bibi Zazi.

18

Q

What is her relationship to Najibullah?

19

A

Mother.

20

MS. BERGER:

Offer Government Exhibit 10.

21

MS. COLSON:

No, we have no objection to any of the

22

photographs.

23

THE COURT:

24

(So marked.)

25

THE COURT:

SS

Received.

Identify them, I'll receive them as

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identified.

2

Q

274

I'm showing you Government Exhibit 11.

3

THE COURT:

Received.

4

Q

Who is that?

5

A

Murwari Zazi.

6

Q

What is her relationship to Najibullah Zazi?

7

A

His sister.

8

Q

Government Exhibit 9?

9

THE COURT:

10

Received.

(So marked.)

11

A

Mohammad Tariq Zazi, Najibullah's brother.

12

Q

Government Exhibit 13?

13

THE COURT:

14

(So marked.)

15

A

16

aunts.

17

Q

Received.

Rabia Zazi, Rabia Zazi, the sister and Najibullah Zazi's

Government Exhibit 12?

18

THE COURT:

Received.

19

(So marked.)

20

A

Naqib Jaji, the husband, Najibullah's uncle.

21

Q

At some point did other FBI offices become involved in

22

this investigation?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Which offices?

25

A

The New York office.

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1

Q

Did this rise to a national investigation?

2

A

Yes, absolutely.

3

Q

Why did New York become involved?

4

A

In the early morning hours of September 9th, 2009,

5

Najibullah got in a rental car, drove across the country and

6

was on his way to New York City, eventually arrived here on

7

the 10th.

8

Q

Najibullah ever return to Colorado?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

When did he return?

11

A

September 12th, 2009.

12

Q

13

this trip from Colorado to New York City?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Did New York open an investigations on other people

16

connected with Najibullah?

17

A

18

Adis Medunjanin, among others.

19

Q

20

Colorado were working on this investigation?

21

A

I would estimate well over a hundred.

22

Q

What about New York?

23

A

I believe every terrorism squad in New York City was

24

working on this investigation.

25

Q

Were there surveillance teams with Najibullah throughout

Yes, they had investigations into Zarein Ahmedzay and

September of 2009, approximately how many agents in

Were there analysts assigned to this investigation as

SS

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1

well?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

How are people actually getting their assignments?

4

A

In Denver, we had a command post that was operational

5

24 hours a day.

6

that command post.

7

Q

How would you describe the pace of the investigation?

8

A

Very quick, very quick at that time.

9

Q

Once Najibullah returned to Colorado, did your

The assignments were being doled out from

10

investigation strategy change?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

Why?

13

A

The investigation had become overt at that time, meaning

14

it was known to him.

15

at him.

16

Q

Who is the "he"?

17

A

Najibullah was aware that law enforcement was looking

18

into him.

19

Q

Why do you say that?

20

A

We had received information that he had been tipped off

21

here in New York by an individual who alerted him that law

22

enforcement had been there with his photograph so he was aware

23

of law enforcement's interest in him.

24

after his return to Denver, the media caught wind of searches

25

that were being conducted, criminal, here in New York City and

SS

He was aware law enforcement was looking

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1

that was widely publicized back in Colorado.

2

Q

Did you in fact see media?

3

A

They were knocking on his door, camped outside his house,

4

trying to interview him, any chance they got.

5

Q

Did there come a time when you interviewed Najibullah?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

When was that?

8

A

First time was September 16th, 2009.

9

Q

Where was that interview conducted?

10

A

The Denver FBI field office.

11

Q

Who else attended the interview?

12

A

My co-case agent was there.

13

with his two attorneys.

14

Q

How long did that initial interview with Najibullah last?

15

A

That interview lasted hours, well into the evening at

16

that time.

17

Q

Najibullah, was he asked questions about his family?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Ask about Amanullah Zazi?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

What did you first say about Amanullah Zazi?

22

MS. COLSON:

23

THE COURT:

24
25

earlier, correct?

Objection.
Sustained.

We talked about this

Who made the objection, Ms. Colson?

MS. COLSON:

SS

Najibullah was there along

Yes.

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2
3

THE COURT:

278

We addressed this earlier?

side bar.
(Continued on next page.)

4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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Come up to

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(Side bar.)

2

THE COURT:

3

MS. BERGER:

THE COURT:

10

Remind me what the answer to this

statement is?

8
9

Yes, it is my understanding your Honor

said we could introduce into the ruling last week.

6
7

Are these the statements in your letter

after my ruling you couldn't bring in all these statements?

4
5

279

MS. BERGER:

The first statement Amanullah is the

biological brother and, then he says Amanullah is his real
brother.

11

THE COURT:

Not offering it in for the truth?

12

MS. BERGER:

13

THE COURT:

14

(Continued on next page.)

Yes.
Your objection is preserved.

15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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280

(Open court.)

2

Q

I'll ask you the same question again.

3

asked questions about his family?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Was he asked about Amanullah Zazi?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

What did he first say about Amanullah?

8

A

He first indicated to me he was his blood brother.

9

Q

Did he make any other statements about Amanullah later in

10

the interview?

11

A

12

with us.

13

He then said well, we all know him.

Was Najibullah

He's always lived

It was somewhat confusing for us.
(Continued on next page.)

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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1

Q

Did he say he was his real brother.

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

Did you have any further interviews with Najibullah in

4

Colorado?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

When?

7

A

September 17th, 2009.

8

Q

Any interviews after that?

9

A

Also the 18th of September, 2009.

10

Q

Did there come a time where you searched any e-mail

11

accounts?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Whose e-mail account did you search?

14

A

Those belonging to Najibullah Zazi.

15

Q

Did Najibullah give you consent to search his e-mail

16

accounts.

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

How many different e-mail accounts did he give you

19

consent to search?

20

A

Several.

21

Q

How did you get the password to those accounts?

22

A

He provided them.

23

Q

What if anything did you find in your search of the

24

e-mail accounts?

25

A

281

I believe there was maybe four.

In one of the gmail accounts in the sent folder we found

BHS

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the messages that I had previously read earlier.

2

Q

Government Exhibit 25 A, B and C; is that right?

3

A

Yes.

4

found notes, handwritten notes which appeared to be

5

formulations for explosive mixtures.

282

In another gmail -- in two other e-mail accounts we

6

MS. COLSON:

Objection.

7

THE COURT:

I'm sorry?

8

MS. COLSON:

I don't believe your Honor has ruled on

9

this yet.

10

We have an objection.
THE COURT:

Overruled.

11

A

They appeared to be formulations for explosive mixture,

12

specifically triacetone triperoxide, or TATP.

13

Q

14

Exhibit 21, sir.

15

A

16

account.

17

Q

18

these results that you found in your search of the

19

zazmjhd@yahoo.com account?

20

A

I'm going to show you what is marked as Government
What are these?

That's one of the accounts, the zazmjhd@yahoo.com

And I have here 21, Exhibits 21 A through 21 B.

Are

Yes.

21

MS. BERGER:

I would offer Government Exhibit 21, 21

23

THE COURT:

Any objection?

24

MS. COLSON:

We object to -- we don't object to 21

22

25

A, 21 B.

A.

BHS

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THE COURT:

2

(So marked.)

3

Q

283

Received.

I'm going to direct your attention to 21 A.

4

If I can put that on the screen for the jury.

Can

5

you just read right here, Agent Jergenson, what folder was

6

this in?

7

A

8

Zafarmal.

9

Q

What is the date on the message there?

10

A

December 2, 2008.

11

Q

I'm putting up Government Exhibit 21 B on the screen.

12

that in fact the e-mail that was from Abdullah Zafarmal?

13

A

It appears to be, yes.

14

Q

This e-mail seems to indicate there's an attachment?

15

A

Yes.

16

nine different attachments.

17

That was in the in box and that message is from Abdullah

Is

It looks as those they are nine pages of documents,

MS. BERGER:

At this time I'd like to show the

18

witness what is marked as Government Exhibit 22.

19

Q

Agent Jergenson, what is this?

20

A

Those are the attachments to the e-mail.

21

formulations that I referred to earlier.

Those are the

22

MS. BERGER:

The government would offer Exhibit 22.

23

MS. COLSON:

We object.

The same objection we had

Sustained.

You can have him describe

24
25

previously.
THE COURT:

BHS

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for the jury generally what they contain but I don't want them

2

in evidence.

3

Sustained.

4

Q

5

attachments were to Government Exhibit 21 B?

6

A

7

formulations or directions for the manufacture of TATP,

8

triacetone triperoxide, which is an explosive.

9

Agent Jergenson, can you generally describe what the

Again, they were handwritten notes that appeared to be

THE COURT:

Let me give you a little framework for

10

this testimony.

11

government's case, but testimony like it.

12

is a case about allegations that the defendant obstructed

13

justice into an investigation.

14

case about terrorism charges or building explosives and the

15

like.

16

I'm not sure what is coming in terms of the
As you know, this

It's not, strictly speaking, a

Obviously, at least it's obvious to me, there ought

17

to be some context regarding underlying terrorism crime and

18

allegations about it -- people have pled guilty to it -- some

19

backdrop for the evidence of the crimes charged.

20

We're not going to try the terrorism case, this

21

isn't the terrorism trial, but you need to know a little bit

22

about it in order to place into context and to appreciate the

23

evidence that the government is going to offer regarding

24

efforts to obstruct justice.

25

All right.

BHS

So we're going to dip our toe in the

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water here and there on the underlying crime just for purposes

2

of backdrop, but don't take your eye off the ball, the ball

3

here being the charges that the defendant endeavored,

4

conspired to endeavor to obstruct justice into the

5

investigation.

Okay?

6

Any objection to the limiting instruction?

7

MS. COLSON:

No, your Honor.

8

THE COURT:

How about from you, Miss Berger?

9

MS. BERGER:

No, Judge.

THE COURT:

Go ahead.

10
11

BY MS. BERGER:

12

Q

13

the attachment, Agent Jergenson, did the attachment reference

14

specific chemicals that would be used for explosives?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And were some of those chemicals ones that you could

17

purchase at pharmacies or beauty supply stores?

18

A

They could be purchased easily anywhere.

19

Q

Did the notes reference acetone?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

What about hydrogen peroxide?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

In fact -- the last question on this -- did the notes

24

specifically say that these materials could be purchased at

25

pharmacies or other retail stores?

Generally speaking, without getting into the specifics of

BHS

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1

A

They did.

2

Q

I now show you what has been marked as Government

3

Exhibit 23.

4

move on though, one other question about Government

5

Exhibit 22.

6

This is going to be 23 A through F.

Before I

Had you ever seen -- when you recovered these notes

7

from Najibullah's e-mail accounts, had you ever seen them

8

before?

9

A

I had seen them before.

10

Q

How had you seen them before?

11

A

Najibullah had, as we discussed earlier, he had come to

12

New York, he arrived in New York City on the 10th and left on

13

the 12th.

14

His car was obtained by the FBI on September 11th,

15

towed to a secure facility, and searched.

16

agents located his laptop computer.

17

and imaged and within the image were these same formulations

18

and notes that we have just looked at.

19

Q

You were given a copy?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

The e-mail address, I think you testified to, that these

22

notes were attached to was Abdullah Zazi's mail; is that

23

correct?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

Did you do any subpoenas on the IP address for that

BHS

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During that search

That computer was taken

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e-mail address?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

Where did that result to?

4

A

Pakistan.

5

Q

Now showing you what has been marked as Government

6

Exhibit 23.

7

I will just show the witness, your Honor?

8

THE COURT:

Yes.

9

Q

What is this?

10

A

That is another e-mail account, zazmjhd@hotmail.com.

11

Q

Was this one of the e-mail accounts that you searched?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And are Government Exhibit 23 A through F, are these all

14

results from the search of that e-mail account?

15

A

Yes.

16
17

MS. BERGER:
F.

The government would offer 23 A through

I believe there would be an objection on 23 F.

18

THE COURT:

19

MS. BERGER:

Yes.

20

THE COURT:

The cover page.

22

MS. COLSON:

We do.

23

THE COURT:

All right.

21

Are you offering 23 as well?

Is that right, Miss

Colson?

24

sustain.

25

you just did.

We object to 23 E and 23 F.
Same ruling.

I'm going to

You can elicit from the witness similarly to what
I sustain the objection to 23 E and F.

BHS

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288

B, C and D are received.

2

(So marked.)

3

Q

Agent Jergenson, calling your attention to Government

4

Exhibit 23 D.

5

A

6

account, same account as in Yahoo.

7

contains the attachments that we had just looked at, the

8

formulations for the TATP instruction.

9

Q

What is this?

That is another e-mail from the Abdullah Zafarmal
In that account it just

And just directing your attention to the two lines there.

10

Were the he mails sent to two different e-mail addresses?

11

Were e-mails sent to two different e-mail addresses?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

One is the zazmjhd@yahoo.com and one is the

14

zazmjhd@hotmail.com account?

15

A

That's correct.

16

Q

This e-mail also attached the same bombing instructions;

17

is that correct?

18

A

19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Yes.
THE COURT:

When would be a good time to take our

morning break.
MS. BERGER:

I am about 3 or 4 minutes away from the

end of his direct.
THE COURT:

Why don't we finish up the direct and

we'll take a break.
MS. BERGER:

BHS

Maybe closer to five.

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THE COURT:

289

You're pressing it now, but try and

2

finish it.

3

Q

4

you recognize this?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Contained here are 24-A through D.

7

from the search of this e-mail account?

8

A

I'm showing you what is marked Government Exhibit 24:

Do

That is the najibzazi@yahoo.com address.
Are all these results

Yes.

9

MS. BERGER:

I would offer 24 and 24-A through D.

10

THE COURT:

Any objection?

11

MS. COLSON:

No objection.

12

THE COURT:

Received.

13

(So marked.)

14

Q

Can you just read what the address on this is?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

Showing you what is in evidence as 24-A.

17

A

It's an Orbitz travel record for -- it appears a flight

18

arrangement for Friday, September 11, 2009 on United Airlines.

19

Q

What is the date of this flight?

20

A

Friday, September 11, 2009.

21

Q

And where is the flight leaving from and going to?

22

A

Leaving New York New York, La Guardia and arriving at

23

Denver, Colorado on the same day.

24

Q

25

confirmation?

It's najibzazi@yahoo.com.

Now, I'm going to show you 24 B.

BHS

OCR

CM

What is this?

Is this also an Orbitz

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290

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And is this for a rental car?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

And can you see the -- what was arranged for the pickup

5

date and drop off date?

6

A

7

September 14, 2009.

8

Q

Pick up location was Aurora, Colorado?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Drop off location in Flushing Queens?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

I am going to show you what is marked as Government

13

Exhibit 25, and this will be 25 A through H.

September 8th, pick up, 2009, and the drop off was

14

THE COURT:

You said in evidence, did you mean

16

MS. BERGER:

Sorry.

17

THE COURT:

Go ahead.

15

that?
Marked for identification.

18

Q

Agent Jergenson, do you recognize these?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And is Government Exhibit 25 A through H the results of

21

your search of that account?

22

A

23
24
25

That is the njbzaz@yahoo.com address.

I believe so, yes.
MS. BERGER:

Your Honor, the government would offer

25 A through, and then 25 A through H.
THE COURT:

BHS

Any objection?

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1
2

MS. COLSON:

291

We object to 25 D and 25 E as

irrelevant.

3

THE COURT:

Overruled.

4

(So marked.)

5

MS. COLSON:

Received.

I would note for the record we also

6

object to 25 H for the same reasons.

7

Q

Agent Jergenson --

8

THE COURT:

Hold on.

9

MS. BERGER:

Sorry.

THE COURT:

Overruled.

10

That is received too.

Go

11

ahead.

12

Q

13

Government Exhibit 25 A, B and C.

14

about these e-mails back and forth between Sana Khan and this

15

njbzaz account; is that right?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Were these e-mails, 25 A through C, also found during the

18

search of this account?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Without putting those e-mails back up on the screen, do

21

those e-mails make a reference to a Mohammed?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

When you first discovered those e-mails, did you know who

24

Mohammed was?

25

A

Agent Jergenson, previously admitted into evidence were
I believe you testified

Absolutely not.

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1

Q

Were there people associated with Najibullah named

2

Mohammed?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Who?

5

A

His father, Mohammed Wali Zazi and his brother, Mohammad

6

Tariq Zazi.

7

Q

8

opened under those people?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Did you eventually learn who Mohammed was that referred

11

to in the e-mail -- just for clarity, 25 A as received in

12

evidence already.

13

in that e-mail was?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Who was that?

16

A

Adis Nedunjanin.

17

Q

When did you learn that?

18

A

Months after the opening of our investigation in Denver.

19

Q

Agent Jergenson, you testified about many investigative

20

steps you took in connection with this investigation; is that

21

correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

About searches and surveillance.

24

investigative steps all approved by a court?

25

A

Is that one of the reasons investigations were initially

Did your learn who the Mohammed referred to

Were these

Yes.

BHS

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293
1

Q

And is it fair to say that these investigative steps are

2

not routine in all cases?

3

A

No, they're not.

4

Q

Did there come a time when Najibullah was arrested?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

When was that?

7

A

September 19, 2009, the evening.

8

Q

Was anyone else arrested on that day?

9

A

Yes.

Mohammed Wali Zazi was arrested along with

10

Najibullah and also Ahmad Wais Afzali was arrested in New York

11

City at that time.

12

Q

Did the investigation continue after that date?

13

A

It did.

14
15

MS. BERGER:
Honor.

16
17

I have no further questions, your

THE COURT:

We will resume in about ten minutes.

Don't discuss the case.

18

(Jury leaves.)

19

THE COURT:

All rise.

You can step down.

I got an ex parte

20

application from the government regarding a protective order,

21

a question whether to disclose certain information regarding a

22

witness, dated July 17th.

23

clarify.

24

stay ex parte.

25

I have an additional question to

I would like you to come up to sidebar.

(Sidebar-order sealed.)

BHS

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294
1

(Sealed page.)

2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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1

(Open court.)

2

THE COURT:

3

295

About how long do you think your cross

is?

4

MS. COLSON:

Fifteen, 20 minutes.

5

THE COURT:

Who's next?

6

MS. BERGER:

Your Honor, we have a stipulation to

7

road and then we'll be calling the cooperator, Amanullah Zazi.

8

THE COURT:

Is he around?

9

MS. BERGER:

He's in custody, your Honor.

10

THE COURT:

Do the marshals know to bring him up?

11

MS. BERGER:

Yes, your Honor.

12

THE COURT:

All right.

13

(Pause.)

14

(Jury present.)

15

THE COURT:

16

MS. COLSON:

17

THE COURT:

Please be seated everyone.
May I proceed?
Yes.

18

CROSS-EXAMINATION

19

BY MS. COLSON:

20

Q

Good morning.

21

A

Good morning.

22

Q

You testified on direct that you interviewed Najibullah

23

Zazi in September of 2009?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

And you conducted three interviews of him; correct?

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1

A

Yes.

2

Q

The first interview took place on September 16th?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

That was at the FBI field office in Denver.

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Najibullah Zazi came to your office voluntarily on that

7

day, right?

8

A

He did.

9

Q

When he arrived he was accompanied by his two lawyers; is

10

that correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

There names are Arthur Fulsome and Armstrong Graham?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

He was also accompanied by his father, Mohammed Wali

15

Zazi?

16

A

Mohammed Wali Zazi was there, yes.

17

Q

You took Najibullah and his two lawyers into an interview

18

room; is that correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And Mohammed Wali Zazi, Najibullah's father, remained in

21

the reception area?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And he was there by himself; is that correct?

24

A

I believe so, yes.

25

Q

Well, he didn't appear to have an a lawyer with him, did

BHS

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1

he?

2

A

No.

3

Q

And he didn't appear to have any other friends or

4

relatives with him, did he?

5

A

No.

6

Q

By the way, his cellphone was taken from him when he

7

entered the building; is that correct?

8

A

9

also in the reception area.

Everybody's cellphone was maintained in a locker that was

10

Q

You spoke to Najibullah Zazi for approximately eight

11

hours on that day; is that right?

12

A

I can't say specifically.

13

Q

Many hours.

14

interview room; is that correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And it was a hidden video camera?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

So the entire interview was videotaped, correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

It was videotaped without Najibullah Zazi's knowledge; is

21

that correct?

22

A

Correct.

23

Q

At one point during the interview Najibullah Zazi's

24

father, Mohammed Wali Zazi, was brought into the room; is that

25

correct?

BHS

Okay.

OCR

I know it was many hours.

And there was a video camera in the

CM

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1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And that is because you wanted to look at his cellphone;

3

is that correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And you needed to get his permission to do that?

6

A

His consent, yes.

7

Q

So he was brought into the room and he sat down; is that

8

correct?

9

A

I'm not sure if he was standing or if he ever sat down,

10

I'm not sure.

11

Q

At a certain point you asked for his cellphone number?

12

A

I asked for his cellphone.

13

Q

You asked for his cellphone?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

You asked for his cellphone number?

16

A

Sure.

17

Q

And he gave that to you; is that correct?

18

A

He did.

19

Q

There was no resistance on his part; is that correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And he was polite to you; is that correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Now, since there was a hidden video camera in the room,

24

your interaction with Mohammed Wali Zazi was videotaped; is

25

that correct?

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1

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299

Yes.

2

MS. COLSON:

Your Honor, I have a video of that

3

moment.

By agreement with the government I'd like to

4

introduce it into evidence and play it for the jury.

5

THE COURT:

6

given it?

7

what?

Sure.

What exhibit number have we

We're feeding this from your laptop?

8

MS. COLSON:

16.

9

THE COURT:

Received.

10

(So marked.)

11

(Video plays.)

12

(Video stops.)

It's exhibit

13

Q

So the phone you were examining in that video clip was

14

Mohammed Wali Zazi's phone?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And Najibullah Zazi was helping you locate the contents;

17

is that correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

The man who walked into the room and asked Mohammed Wali

20

Zazi some questions, that was Arthur Fulsome; is that correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And that was Najibullah Zazi's lawyer?

23

A

It is my understanding that Arthur Fulsome were

24

representing both.

25

both Najibullah and Mohammed Wali.

BHS

He and Armstrong Graham were representing

OCR

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Jergenson - cross - Colson
1

Q

2

building that day?

3

A

4

communicated to

5

representing both of them.

6

Q

300

Was that your understanding when they first entered the

It was shortly thereafter when they got there, it was
me that both of them were there for

Okay.

7

It was Ramadan; is that correct?

8

A

I'm not exactly sure.

9

Q

You were told in that video clip that it was Ramadan; is

10

that correct?

11

A

I guess, yes.

12

Q

They said on video clip that it was Ramadan; is that

13

correct?

14

A

Okay, yes.

15

Q

You interviewed Najibullah Zazi for a second time on

16

September 17th; is that correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And that interview also took place at the FBI office in

19

Denver?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And how many hours did that interview last?

22

A

Again, hours.

23

Q

Was that interview videotaped?

24

A

No.

25

Q

You interviewed him for a third time on September 18th;

BHS

Hours long.

OCR

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301

1

is that correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And was that again at the FBI field office in Denver?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And how long did that interview last?

6

A

Hours long.

7

Q

Was that interview videotaped?

8

A

No.

9

Q

Were any of the interviews with Mohammed Wali Zazi

10

videotaped?

11

A

Not to my knowledge.

12

Q

You said you opened an investigation into this plot on

13

September 7th of 2009; is that correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

You didn't need court approval to open the investigation?

16

A

No.

17

Q

You also participated in several interviews of Amanullah

18

Zazi; is that correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

MS. BERGER:

Objection.

21

THE COURT:

Overruled.

22

Q

You interviewed Amanullah Zazi on September 2nd of 2009;

23

is that correct?

24

A

I'm not sure of the exact date.

25

Q

Would it refresh your recollection if I showed you copies

BHS

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Jergenson - cross - Colson
1

of a report?

2

A

Yes.

3

MS. COLSON:

4

THE COURT:

5

Q

302

May I publish this to the witness?
Yes.

It's Government Exhibit 3500 AZ 7.

6

Do you see that?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

So you interviewed Amanullah Zazi on December 2nd of

9

2009; is that correct?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And that interview took place at the FBI office in

12

Denver; is that correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And that is the same office where you had interviewed

15

Najibullah Zazi?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Amanullah Zazi was not in custody, was he?

18

A

No.

19

Q

He came in voluntarily; is that correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

This is before he pled guilty to anything; is that

22

correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Before he had a cooperation agreement?

25

A

Yes.

BHS

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303

1

Q

You didn't videotape that interview, did you?

2

A

No.

3

Q

You didn't create an audio recording of that interview?

4

A

No.

5

Q

So no recording of that interview exists today?

6

A

No.

7

Q

Is that correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

You were present a for a second interview with Amanullah

10

Zazi on December 10th?

11

A

12
13

If I can see the 302, please.
MS. COLSON: I will publish this to the witness from

here, your Honor?

14

THE COURT:

Sure.

15

(Continued next page)

16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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304

1

Q

That interview also took place at the FBI office in

2

Denver; is that correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

And it was conducted in the SEC briefing room; is that

5

correct?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

Again, Amanullah Zazi was not in custody?

8

A

No.

9

Q

He still had not pled guilty?

10

A

He had not pled guilty.

11

Q

Now, this time, the briefing room where you interviewed

12

him was wired for audio; is that correct?

13

A

I'm not sure.

14

Q

Would it refresh your recollection if I showed you the

15

last page of that 302?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Take a look at the last paragraph there?

18

I don't think that it was.

(Pause.)

19

A

Okay.

20

Q

So, the briefing room was wired for audio; is that

21

correct?

22

A

Apparently, yes.

23

Q

And the audio was broadcast into a nearby room; is that

24

correct?

25

A

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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Jergenson - cross - Colson

305

1

Q

And that's where several agents were listening to the

2

audio; is that correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

You didn't create an audio recording of that interview,

5

did you?

6

A

No.

7

Q

So, there's no recording of that interview today?

8

A

No.

9

Q

Now, the next interview you participated in with

10

Amanullah Zazi was on December 11; is that correct?

11

like to take a look at your report?

12

A

13

part?

14

Q

Sure, please.

Thank you.

Would you

If I can just see that bottom

Okay.
I'll show you the last page, as well?

15

THE COURT:

Can you push it up a little bit?

16

Is there a date on the bottom?

17

THE WITNESS:

18

THE COURT:

No.

It's just on the front page.

19

A

Okay.

20

Q

So, again, Amanullah Zazi came in voluntarily; is that

21

correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

He still was not in custody?

24

A

No.

25

THE COURT:

I think you began with the date.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Did

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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306

1

you mean to elicit it was December 11?

2

Q

It was December 11?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

This is your third interview?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

The room was again wired for audio?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Again, there were agents in another room listening?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

There was no audio recording created of that interview,

11

either; is that correct?

12

A

No.

13

Q

Now, there was a fourth interview, and I'll show you your

14

302 that took place on December 12; is that correct?

15

A

16

December 12.

17

Q

18

that correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And again, he had not pled guilty yet?

21

A

No.

22

Q

He had not been offered his cooperation agreement yet?

23

A

No.

24

Q

Again, the room was wired for audio?

25

A

Yes.

The date is going to be at the bottom.

Correct,

And the same thing, again, he came in voluntarily; is

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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Jergenson - cross - Colson

307

1

Q

The audio was broadcast in a nearby room --

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And again, there was no audio recording of that interview

6

made?

7

A

No.

8

Q

Now, you interviewed him for a fourth time -- or, a fifth

9

time, I should say -- I apologize -- on December 14; is that

10

-- for monitoring by agents?

correct?

11
12

THE COURT:

Do you want to take a look at the 302

again?

13

THE WITNESS:

14

THE COURT:

15

302 is.

16
17

Yes, please.

Maybe we ought to tell the jury what a

What's a 302?
THE WITNESS:

A 302 is just our standard way of

documenting interviews that we conduct.

18

THE COURT:

That's the number on the form, yes?

19

THE WITNESS:

20

THE COURT:

It's called a FD, Standard Form 302.

Go ahead, Ms. Colson.

21

Q

That interview did not take place at the FBI office?

22

A

No.

23

Q

Where did that interview take place?

24

A

Fort Collins, Colorado.

25

Q

Was he in custody at that time?

It says "Vicinity of Fort Collins, Colorado."

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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Jergenson - recross - Berger

308

1

A

No.

2

Q

That interview was not recorded, either; is that correct?

3

A

No.

4
5

THE COURT:

It's not correct, or it was not

recorded?

6

THE WITNESS:

It was not recorded.

7

Q

That was the last interview Amanullah Zazi had in

8

Colorado before he was sent to New York; is that correct?

9

A

I can't say for sure.

It was likely the last one that I

10

was involved in.

11

Q

12

correct?

13

A

I don't know.

14

Q

Have you participated in any interviews of Amanullah Zazi

15

since that last date, December 14?

16

A

17

some documentation.

18

Q

Okay.

19

A

No.

When he got to New York, he was given a lawyer; is that

Again, not that I am aware of.

I may have, if there's

Have you participated in any recently?

20

MS. COLSON:

21

THE COURT:

22

Any redirect?

23

MS. BERGER:

24

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

25

BY MS. BERGER:

No further questions.
Thank you, Ms. Colson.

Just briefly, your Honor.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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309

1

Q

Agent Jergenson, you were shown a portion of a videotape

2

earlier; do you recall that?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Was that just a portion of the entire interview you had

5

with Amanullah Zazi on that date?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

I believe you testified that the individual that walked

8

in the room at some point was an attorney; is that right?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And did the attorney say, on that video, that he was

11

comfortable with the questions that the FBI agents had been

12

asking Mr. Zazi?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And his lawyer said that it was finished with him if

15

Mr. Mohammed Wali Zazi, the defendant, continued to answer

16

questions from the FBI; is that correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Agent Jergenson, you were asked about a number of

19

interviews that you conducted with Amanullah Zazi; is that

20

right?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And were reports prepared after those interviews

23

detailing statements made by the witness during those

24

interviews?

25

A

Every time.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 92 of 280 PageID #: 1167
Jergenson - recross - Berger
1

Q

2

right?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

So, the video -- the videotape, is a detailed report

5

prepared?

6

A

And those are the FBI 302's that you referred to; is that

Yes.

7

MS. COLSON:

8

THE COURT:

9

Q

310

Objection.
Overruled.

In the video, there was some talk where you're looking at

10

the cell phone and you said something about, This is against

11

the rules.

12

there?

13

A

14

cell phone within that space.

15

leave the cell phones out in reception area, because there was

16

a search going on simultaneously with the interviews that day.

17

We didn't want anyone there to be getting a phone call, to be

18

advised of the search.

19

possibility that they could have called off the interview.

Don't saying anything.

What were you referring to

It was basically a ruse or -- anyone can operate their
What we were trying to do is,

We were fearful that there was a

20

MS. BERGER:

Thank you.

21

THE COURT:

22

Anything further, Ms. Colson?

23

MS. COLSON:

24

THE COURT:

25

(Witness excused.)

Thank you, Ms. Berger.

No.

Thank you, your Honor.

You can step down.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

You are excused.

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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311
1

THE COURT:

2

MS. MARRUS:

3

apologize.

Call your next witness.
Your Honor, we call Amanullah Zazi -- I

We were going to read a stipulation first.

4

THE COURT:

Tell them to hold up one second.

5

A stipulation is the result of both sides agreeing

6

that certain facts can be considered proved by you.

7

Stipulations eliminate the need for witnesses to come to court

8

unnecessarily, because the parties agree that the facts that

9

are stipulated to should be considered by you as proved for

10

the purpose of the trial.

What weight to give them in the

11

final analysis is up to you.

12

Are you going to read this, Mr. Goldsmith?

13

MR. GOLDSMITH:

14

THE COURT:

Yes, your Honor.

When he reads the facts that have been

15

stipulated to, listen to them and you should consider those

16

facts to be proved for the purposes of trial.

17

skip the preliminary stuff and get to the facts that are

18

stipulated to.

19

MR. GOLDSMITH:

20

"Paragraph 1:

Feel free to

Thank you, your Honor.
Government Exhibits 70, 71, 72, 73,

21

74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79 and 80 are recordings of conversations

22

that were lawfully obtained by the government.

23

"2.

Government Exhibits 70-T, 71-T, 72-T, 73-T,

24

74-T, 75-T, 76-T, 77-T, 78-T, 79-T and 80-T are accurate

25

transcripts and translations of the recordings described in

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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312
1

paragraph one.

2

prepared with input by the government and the defense.

3

"4.

These transcripts and translations were

Government Exhibits 70-T, 71-T, 72-T, 73-T,

4

74-T, 75-T, 76-T, 77-T, 78-T, 79-T and 80-T accurately

5

indicate the date and time at which each recorded conversation

6

began.

Government Exhibits 70-T, 71-T" --

7

THE COURT:

8

MR. GOLDSMITH:

9

THE COURT:

10

Can we skip that and go "70 to 80-T"?
This is different.

Great.

MR. GOLDSMITH:

--

"70-T through 78-T, which are

11

transcripts of translations of telephone calls, accurately

12

indicate the telephone numbers involved in the calls.

13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

"In September 2009, the phone number 303-500-2877
was used by Najibullah Zazi.
"In September 2009, the phone number 303-627-2355
was used by Amanullah Zazi.
"In September 2009, the phone number 303-688-4176
was used by Amanullah Zazi.
"In September 2009, the phone number 303-766-3188
was used my Naqib Zazi and Rabia Zazi.
"In September 2009, the phone number 303-944-3596
was used by Zaheer Akbar.
"In September 2009, phone number 347-228-6738 was
used by Naqib Jaji.
"In September 2009, the phone number 646-702-3691

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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313
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13

was used by Mohammed Wali Zazi.
"In September 2009, the phone number 720-495-0663
was used by Zaheer Akbar.
"In September 2009, phone number 917-217-3319 was
used by Ahmad Wais Afzali.
"Government Exhibits 70 through 80, 70-T through
80-T and this stipulation are admissible in evidence."
The government offers this stipulation as
Government's Exhibit 60 and the exhibits listed in the
stipulation.
THE COURT:

60 is received as 70 through 80, and

70-T through 80-T.
MS. MARRUS:

Your Honor, with the next witness, we

14

intend to publish some of the recordings that were in the

15

stipulation, and we have a binder to pass out to the Court

16

when we get to that part.

17
18
19

THE COURT:

Why don't you pass them out now while we

are getting the witness?
Don't look at anything until we tell you to.

20

go foraging around in the books.

21

to the right transcript at the right time.

Don't

We'll invite your attention

22

If you can bring out the witness, please, Ilene.

23

(Pause.)

24

THE COURT:

25

Everyone have a seat while the witness

is sworn, please.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

A M A N U L L A H

2

Z A Z I,

having been duly sworn, was examined and

3

testified as follows:

4

THE LAW CLERK:

5

THE WITNESS:

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

THE COURT:

9

MS. MARRUS:

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. MARRUS:

State your name and spell it.

Amanullah Zazi.

Could you spell your name.
A M A N U L L A H, Z A Z I, Zazi.

Thank you.
May I inquire?
Yes, you may.
Thank you, your Honor.

12

DIRECT EXAMINATION

13

BY MS. MARRUS:

14

Q

Good afternoon, sir.

15

A

Good afternoon.

16

Q

Mr. Zazi, where were you born?

17

A

Pakistan.

18

Q

And is English your first language?

19

A

No. Pashto.

20
21
22
23

314

THE COURT:

Let's do this:

There's an interpreter

present, obviously.
It's also clear that you have some command of
English; correct?

24

THE WITNESS:

25

THE COURT:

Yes.

Unless somebody wants to object, in

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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315

1

which case I'll hear you, why don't you just use the

2

interpreter as you need him, if you need him.

3

translate unless you ask him to.

4

THE WITNESS:

5

THE COURT:

6

THE WITNESS:

7

THE COURT:

8

MS. MARRUS:

So, he won't

Okay.

Fair enough?
Yes.

Is that all right?
Absolutely.

9

Q

Mr. Zazi, how old are you?

10

A

Twenty-four.

11

Q

You said you were born in Pakistan.

12

A

Pakistan, in Peshawar.

13

Q

Do you currently live in the United States?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Are you testifying here today because you signed a

16

cooperation agreement?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

As a term of that cooperation agreement, did you plead

19

guilty to crimes?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Could you please tell the jury what crimes you pled

22

guilty to?

23

A

24

Adis and Zarein, helped them get their Al-Qaeda training.

25

Q

Where in Pakistan?

I pled guilty for I took my cousin Najibullah Zazi and

Where was that?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

316

1

A

Waziristan, overseas.

2

Q

Did you yourself go as to Waziristan for Al-Qaeda

3

training?

4

A

No.

5

Q

How did you help Najibullah, Adis and Zarein get Al-Qaeda

6

training?

7

A

8

student, and then I went to the sheik and told him there are

9

three guys, one is my cousin, and two others, and they came

I connected them -- I went to the sheik, I used to be his

10

from the States and want to go to Waziristan.

11

Q

Did the sheik help them to get to Waziristan?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

You talked about your cousin Najibullah Zazi.

14

MS. MARRUS:

15

THE COURT:

Permission to publish?
Yes.

16

Q

Government's Exhibit 6 in evidence, do you recognize him?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Who is that?

19

A

Najibullah Zazi, my cousin.

20

Q

Is that one of the people that you helped go to

21

Waziristan for Al-Qaeda training?

22

A

23
24
25

Yes.
MS. MARRUS:

Your Honor, may I have permission to

publish these photographs to the jury on a board?
THE COURT:

Sure.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

Where is the board?

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

MS. MARRUS:

2

THE COURT:

3

MS. MARRUS:

4

Around the corner.
Where are you going to set it up?
In front of counsel table, not on an

easel.

5
6

THE COURT:

So it's down low and we don't block

anyone's view?

7

MS. MARRUS:

8

BY MS. MARRUS:

9

Q

Exactly.

two other men, Adis and Zarein?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

Showing you --

13

MS. MARRUS:

14

are in evidence yet.

15

Q

16

Thank you.

You mentioned that in addition to Najibullah, you helped

10

17

317

Your Honor, I don't believe that these

Showing you Government's Exhibit 17 for identification.
Do you know who that is.

A

Yes, it's Adis.

18

THE COURT:

Hold on.

19

Are you moving that in?

20

MS. MARRUS:

21

THE COURT:

22

MS. COLSON:

23

THE COURT:

24

(So marked.)

25

THE COURT:

Yes, your Honor.
Any objection?
No, your Honor.
Received.

Show it to him, now that it's in.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

The

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1

318

other one.

2

MS. MARRUS:

3

Q

Who is this?

4

A

Adis.

5

There it is.

MS. MARRUS:

One more that's not in evidence.

6

Q

Showing you what has been marked for identification as

7

Government's Exhibit 18.

8

A

Yes.

9

Do you know who that is?

His name is Zarein.
MS. MARRUS:

I offer Government's Exhibit 18 into

11

MS. COLSON:

No objection.

12

THE COURT:

13

(So marked.)

10

evidence.

Received.

14

Q

Who is Zarein?

15

A

The third guy.

16

Q

That went to Waziristan for Al-Qaeda training?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Did you plead guilty to any other crimes?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

What?

21

A

Destroying chemicals and lied to the grand jury.

22

Q

You said that you destroyed chemicals.

23

when was that?

24

A

2009.

25

Q

Was that before or after Najibullah, Adis and Zarein came

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Approximately

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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319

1

back from Al-Qaeda training, from Waziristan?

2

A

It was after.

3

Q

Whose chemicals did you destroy?

4

A

Najibullah.

5

Q

What did you believe that those chemicals were going to

6

be used for?

7

A

For a bomb.

8

Q

Why did you destroy them?

9

A

Because to protect him.

10

Q

Did you destroy them on your own, or with other people?

11

A

With other people.

12

Q

With who?

13

A

With my Aunt Rabia and my other aunt, Sultan Bibi.

14

Q

Prior to destroying the chemicals, did you have any

15

conversations with anyone about what you were going to do?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Who was a part of that conversation?

18

A

My uncle Wali and Sultan, me and Rabia.

19

Q

Can you tell the members of the jury what happened during

20

that conversation?

21

A

22

house, and he said that, Now Naqib -- Zaher told me that, that

23

he was saying that Naqib told Zaher that he have a chemical in

24

his garage.

25

sat down for five minutes, and then Rabia went to like the

We had a conversation in our house.

My uncle came from the garage or somehow he came to the

And then an hour later, Rabia came and then we

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

320

1

bedroom or a bathroom and pointed at my Aunt Sultan Bibi to

2

talk to her, and then she came back, and Sultan Bibi told Wali

3

that she's saying that, Naqib sent me here, and Naqib saying

4

that I have chemicals in my garage.

5

I'm not responsible for it, and if you want to do anything

6

about it.

7

Q

Who was talking in that conversation?

8

A

Sultan Bibi.

9

Q

Who was she talking to?

10

A

My uncle Wali.

11

Q

What, if anything, did Wali say in response?

12

A

Wali was kind of pissed.

13

now.

14

to kill -- first, he told Zaher that my son was going to kill

15

himself.

16

garage.

He said, Look at this bastard

He's saying that, First, he told Zaher that he's going

Now, he's saying that he have chemicals in his

17
18

If anything happens, and

And then Rabia was like, Oh, we're in the same
situation.

19

Then a couple of minutes later, they said, Okay, me

20

and Sultan Bibi, we will go there and take care of it.

21

Q

Okay?

22

Let's go back through that a little slowly.

23

So, you said that Rabia had come over and talked to

24

Sultan Bibi in the bathroom?

25

talking.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

Did you know where they were

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
They went behind the living room.

321

1

A

I don't know if they

2

went to the bathroom or bedroom.

3

Q

You didn't hear that conversation; is that correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

After they had their private conversation, was there then

6

a conversation between Sultan Bibi and Wali?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

So, the four of you, yourself, Rabia, Sultan Bibi and

9

Wali Zazi were in -- were together and having a conversation?

Rabia was there, too, and I was there, too.

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And during that conversation, what did Sultan Bibi report

12

to Wali?

13

A

14

and saying that he have chemicals in his garage, and if

15

something happened, and I'm not responsible for it.

16

can do anything, do about it.

17

Q

Naqib had told --

18

A

Rabia.

19

Q

Naqib had told Rabia there were chemicals in his house?

20

A

He sent her like as a messenger, yes.

21

Q

What, if anything, did Rabia ask Sultan Bibi, Wali or

22

yourself to do?

23

A

24

Whatever you got to do about it, do it.

25

Q

She said that, Rabia is saying that Naqib sent me there

If you

And then --

She said, We're not responsible if anything happens.

You said during this conversation someone said that you

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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322

and Sultan Bibi should go over --

2

MR. HARRIS:

3

THE COURT:

Objection.
Overruled.

4

Q

You said during this conversation that someone had said

5

that Sultan Bibi and yourself would go over to take care of

6

the chemicals; is that correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

And who said that?

9

A

Wali.

10

Q

When Wali told you to take care of the chemicals, what

11

did you understand that to mean?

12

A

To destroy.

13

Q

Showing you Government's Exhibit 7 in evidence.

14

that?

15

A

That's my Uncle Wali.

16

Q

Is that the Wali that you said told you to destroy the

17

chemicals?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Showing you Government's Exhibits 10 in evidence.

20

that?

21

A

Sultan Bibi.

22

Q

What is her relationship for you?

23

A

She's my aunt.

24

Q

How is she related to Wali?

25

A

His wife.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Who is

Who is

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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323

1

Q

Is she one of the people that you went over to destroy

2

the chemicals with?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Showing you Government's Exhibit 13 in evidence.

5

that?

6

A

Rabia.

7

Q

How is she related to you?

8

A

She's my aunt.

9

Q

How is she related to Wali?

10

A

His sister.

11

Q

And is she one of the people who helped you destroy the

12

chemicals?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Who is this?

15

A

Naqib.

16

Q

How is he related to you?

17

A

He's my aunt's husband.

18

Q

When you say your "aunt," which aunt?

19

A

Rabia.

20

Q

And was he the person who had said that the chemicals

21

were in his house?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

You said that you pled guilty to not only destroying the

24

chemicals, but lying in the grand jury.

25

own, or with other people?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Who is

Did you lie on your

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

A

2

jury.

3

had inside the jury.

4

I don't know if other people -- everybody went to the
I didn't went with them.

I don't know whatever they

We were told -- I lied.

(Continued on next page.)

5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

324

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1

325

CONTINUING DIRECT EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. MARRUS:

3

Q

Prior to your testimony in the grand jury, did you have

4

conversations with other people about the grand jury?

5

A

6

house, everybody was talking, like keeping quiet, whatever

7

happens.

8

Q

Who was there at Babrak's house?

9

A

Babrak was there, Zaheer, Wali, Rabia and Kubra and me,

Yes, when we received the subpoena, went to Babrak's

10

Naqib Murwari.

11

Q

12

the grand jury?

13

A

14

anything, just tell them we don't know nothing.

15

Q

16

specific?

17

A

Zaheer, Naqib, Wali and Babrak, Rukia and Kubra.

18

Q

Was this before or after you helped Najibullah go to

19

Waziristan for Al Qaeda training?

20

A

It was after.

21

Q

Was this before or after you and Wali and Sultan Bibi and

22

Najiba and Naqib had helped to destroy the chemical?

23

A

24
25

What was the conversation you had at the house regarding

Everybody was like if anybody asked a question about

When you say everyone said that, would you be more

After.
MS. MARRUS:

I don't believe these photographs are

in evidence yet.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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A. Zazi-direct-Marrus
1

Q

2

them?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Who is that?

5

A

Zaheer.

326

I'm showing you Government Exhibit 14, you recognize

6

MS. MARRUS:

Offer Government Exhibit 14 into

8

MS. HARRIS:

No objection.

9

THE COURT:

7

evidence.

10

Received.

(So marked.)

11

Q

Was Zaheer at that meeting at Babrak's house?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Was Zaheer also the one you mentioned earlier who had

14

discussed the chemicals in Naqib's house?

15

A

Yes.

16

MS. MARRUS:

I have one more that I don't believe

17

is in evidence.

18

Q

19

you recognize him?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Who is that?

22

A

Babrak.

23

Q

Was that the person, was he also at that meeting when you

24

discussed what was going to be said in the grand jury?

25

A

Showing you Government Exhibit 15 for identification, do

Yes.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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327

MS. MARRUS:

Offer Government Exhibit 15 into

3

MS. HARRIS:

No objection.

4

THE COURT:

5

(So marked.)

2

evidence.

Received.

6

Q

Are there other members of Wali's family?

Does he have

7

other children other than Najibullah?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Who?

10

A

Murwari, Najibullah, Tariq, Usman and Khadija.

11

Q

I'm showing you Government Exhibit 11.

12

A

Murwari.

13

Q

Was she at that meeting when you discussed lying in the

14

grand jury?

15

A

Who is that?

Yes.

16

THE COURT:

17

MS. MARRUS:

Is this in evidence?
Yes, this should be in evidence.

18

Q

I'm showing you Government Exhibit number 9, who is that?

19

A

Tariq.

20

Q

Was he at that meeting when discussing the grand jury?

21

A

I don't recall.

22

Q

You don't recall?

23

A

No.

24

Q

I'm showing you Government Exhibit number 8.

25

that?

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Who is

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A

328

That's me.

2

THE COURT:

Who?

3

THE WITNESS:

4

THE COURT:

Me.
Keep your voice up.

5

Q

You mentioned lying in the grand jury.

6

little more specifically about that.

7

the things you lied about?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Were you asked questions about who were your parents?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

Were you asked about your relationship to Wali?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

What did you say about your relationship to Wali?

14

A

He's my father.

15

Q

Did you say how he was your father?

16

A

He adopted me.

17

Q

Why did you say that Wali adopted you?

18

A

Because I lied.

19

Q

Let me ask you this.

20

about where you discussed lying in the grand jury, did anyone

21

talk about your relationship to Wali and what you should say

22

in the grand jury?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Who?

25

A

Wali told me tell them that I adopted you when you were

SS

OCR

Let's talk a

Do you remember some of

At that meeting that you talked

CM

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1

two years old and I just find out and I never know about it.

2

Q

3

old?

4

A

Was that true?

Were you adopted when you were two years

No.

5

MS. MARRUS:

6

THE COURT:

One more picture not yet in evidence.
Okay.

7

Q

I'm showing you Government Exhibit number 16.

8

recognize that picture?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Who is that?

11

A

Ahmad Wais.

12

MS. MARRUS:

13

evidence, your Honor.

14

MS. HARRIS:

15

THE COURT:

16

(So marked.)

I move Government Exhibit 16 into

No objection.
Received.

17

Q

Who is Ahmad Wais?

18

A

Our teacher.

19

Q

You say our teacher.

20

A

Mine, Naqib and Tariq.

21

Q

When was he your teacher?

22

A

In 2000.

23

Q

For how many years was he your teacher?

24

A

Two, two and a half or three.

25

Q

Where did he teach?

SS

Do you

OCR

Whose teacher?

CM

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1

A

In Abu Bakr's masjid.

2

Q

Is that a mosque?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Where was the Abu Bakr mosque?

5

A

Queens, flushing.

6

Q

What was Wais's role at the mosque?

7

A

He was our teacher and sometimes he used to give a speech

8

out in the mosque.

9

Q

Can you explain what you mean by a speech?

Who would he

10

speak in front of?

11

A

12

education --

13

Q

14

people at the mosque?

15

A

On Fridays only.

16

Q

Would this be in front of the congregation?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Did Wali know Wais?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

How, how do you know that?

21

A

Because we used to mention his name in our house and his

22

wife came to the house a couple of times and once we had a

23

party in Zaheer's house.

24

He was like a popular guy in our community.

25

Q

Like Muslim people in the mosque, like give Islamic
I mean Islamic ceremony.

This would be in front of a large or small group of

Wais was there, talking about it.

We've gone through your extended family.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

Your uncle,

CSR

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1

aunt and cousins.

2

A

Lal Mohammad and Najiba.

3

Q

Where do they live?

4

A

Overseas, Pakistan.

5

Q

What is Lal's relationship to Wali?

6

father's relationship to Wali?

7

A

Brothers.

8

Q

How many brothers and sisters does Wali have?

9

A

Seven brothers, three sisters.

10

Q

Who is the oldest?

11

A

Wali.

12

Q

You said Najibullah is Wali's son; is that right?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Who is he married to?

15

A

To my sister.

16

Q

What is her name?

17

A

Marzia.

18

Q

Where is she?

19

A

Pakistan.

20

Q

Do you have other brothers and sisters?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Where are they?

23

A

Pakistan.

24

Q

Are you the oldest?

25

A

Yes.

SS

Who are your parents?

OCR

CM

CRR

What is your

CSR

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1

Q

At some point did you come to the United States?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

When?

4

A

1999, August 1st.

5

Q

Approximately how old were you at the time?

6

A

12 or 13.

7

Q

Up until you came to the United States in 1999, who did

8

you live with?

9

A

With Wali.

10

Q

I'm sorry.

11

States, before you came to the United States, who did you live

12

with?

13

A

My mother, my parents.

14

Q

Where?

15

A

Overseas, Pakistan.

16

Q

When you came to the United States, who did you live

17

with?

18

A

Wali.

19

Q

Why did you come to the United States?

20

A

To live here, have education.

21

Q

Where did Wali live at the time in 1999 when you came

22

here?

23

A

Queens, Flushing.

24

Q

Did there come a time when you left the United States?

25

A

Yes.

SS

Up until 1999 when you came to the United

OCR

CM

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1

Q

Approximately when?

2

A

2003.

3

Q

Where did you go?

4

A

Pakistan.

5

Q

Would you explain to the jury why you left briefly?

6

A

Because I was using drugs and I wasn't behaving in

7

school, getting into a lot of fights.

8

Q

You said you were using drugs.

9

A

Marijuana.

10

Q

How old were you in 2003?

11

A

15.

12

Q

How often were you using marijuana at that time?

13

A

Most days.

14

Q

Most days?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

You said you went back to Pakistan?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

How long did you stay in Pakistan?

19

A

Six months.

20

Q

Who did you live with when you went back to Pakistan?

21

A

My mother, my father, my father Lal Mohammad and my

22

mother, Najiba.

23

Q

After six months, did you come back to the United States?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

Why did you come back?

SS

OCR

CM

What kind of drugs?

CRR

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A

I didn't plan there to go forever.

2

Q

When you came back, where did you live?

3

A

With Wali.

4

Q

Where was that?

5

A

Queens, Flushing.

6

Q

You said that you left the United States in 2003 because

7

you were getting into trouble and doing drugs.

8

when you came back to the United States?

9

A

It was the same thing.

10

Q

Can you explain what you mean?

11

A

I started more drugs, started drinking alcohol.

12

Q

What kind of drugs were you doing?

13

A

I did marijuana, like every day, and did cocaine a couple

14

of times and started drinking.

15

Q

16

did you decide to go back to Pakistan a second time?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Approximately how much does a plane ticket back to

19

Pakistan cost at that time?

20

A

600 or 7.

21

Q

Dollars?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Initially did you buy a ticket?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

How did you get the money to buy a ticket?

What happened

I got worse and worse.

At some point after you came back to the United States,

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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A

I stole it.

2

Q

From?

3

A

Wali.

4

Q

How much did you steal?

5

A

A thousand dollars.

6

Q

What happened to that ticket?

7

A

I returned it back.

8

Q

Why?

9

A

Because everybody give me a lecture, don't go.
Don't come, stay there.

My father

10

called from overseas.

Najiba gave me

11

a lecture.

12

Q

Did you ultimately go to Pakistan?

13

A

When I got the ticket?

14

Q

After you got the ticket, you returned the ticket.

15

A

After that I went back, yes.

16

Q

When?

17

A

Two months later.

18

Q

Is this still in 2004?

19

A

In 2004, yes.

20

Q

Where did you get the money to go back to Pakistan the

21

second time?

22

A

Wali bought a ticket for me.

23

Q

How long did you stay in Pakistan your second trip?

24

A

Five years.

25

Q

Who did you live with?

Then I went back to the states.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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1

A

Lal Mohammad and Najiba, my grandmother.

2

Q

Your parents?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Turning you're attention to August of 2008, were you

5

still in Pakistan at that time?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

Did Najibullah come to Pakistan in August of 2008?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Did he come alone or with other people?

10

A

He came with two guys, Hadis and Zarin.

11

Q

Did you know Hadis and Zarin?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

How?

14

A

From school, from here in New York.

15

Q

Where did Najibullah, Hadis and Zarin stay when they came

16

to Pakistan?

17

A

Lal Mohammad's house, my father's.

18

Q

At first, did Najibullah, Hadis and Zarin tell you why

19

they came to Pakistan?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

What did they tell you?

22

A

Zarin, he was there for the wife and add Hadis going to

23

get a wife.

24

Q

25

were coming for Hadis to get a wife and Zarin Najibullah were

Did you learn whether or not that was true, that they

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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coming to visit their wives, was that true?

2

A

No.

3

Q

What was the truth?

4

A

To go to training.

5

Q

You helped them get that training?

6

A

Al Queda training.

7

Q

Did anyone else offer to try to help them get Al Queda

8

training?

9

A

Yes, Zarin.

10

Q

Was he successful?

11

A

No, I told him don't trust him.

12

Q

Were you successful?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Earlier you had mentioned a sheikh who you had consulted

15

with to get help to get them to Waziristan.

16

that sheikh?

17

A

I studied under him.

18

Q

After you consulted with the sheikh, what did the sheikh

19

tell you he could do?

20

A

21

like later on.

22

Q

Did you later learn who that guy was?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Who?

25

A

Ahmed.

How did you know

He was my teacher.

He said if the guy is available, I'll call him.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Come

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1

Q

Did Ahmed help Najibullah, Hadis and Zarin go to

2

Waziristan for training?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Where did Najibullah, Hadis and Zarin go for Al Qaeda

5

training?

6

A

Waziristan.

7

Q

Let's talk about your time in Pakistan.

8

there, did you start doing drugs again?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

What kind of drugs?

11

A

Opium, hashish and medical.

12

Q

You say medical.

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

How often were you doing hashish?

15

A

Every day.

16

Q

How often were you doing opium?

17

A

Most days.

18

Q

What about pharmaceutical drugs?

19

A

Most days.

20

Q

Where did you get the money to take the drugs?

21

A

My father, my mother, my grandmother, sometimes friends.

22

Sometimes we would get it free.

23

Q

24

friends, did they know what this money was going for?

25

A

While were you

You mean pharmaceutical drugs?

When you would get the money from your parents and

My mother and father and grandmother didn't know like two

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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339

1

or three years.

They stopped giving

2

me money.

3

Q

At some point did you start stealing money?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Who did you steal money from?

6

A

From my grandmother and father, I mean --

7

Q

When did you leave Pakistan?

8

A

2009.

9

Q

Do you remember the date?

10

A

April 16th.

11

Q

Where did you live when you came back?

12

A

Queens, Flushing.

13

Q

With who?

14

A

Wali.

15

Q

You testified that while you were in Pakistan you helped

16

Najibullah, Hadis and Zarin travel to get Al Qaeda training.

17

When you returned to New York, did you talk to anyone about

18

what they had done?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Who?

21

A

One of my friends, Wali and there's another guy.

22

Q

Tell us about your conversation that you had with Wali.

23

Approximately how long after you came back to the United

24

States from Pakistan did you have this conversation?

25

A

yeah.

A month, a month and a half or a month later.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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1

Q

Can you tell the jury what was said?

2

A

We were talking about overseas and conversation end up by

3

somehow I told him one.

4

A

5

Najib and Hadis and Zarin I could take you to Waziristan.

6

After that when he left, I told Naqib told don't trust this

7

guy, he works for the government.

8

they got caught on checkpoint, came back in the morning.

9

were so upset.

Came to the house, Yassin came to the house and told

When he left, then tomorrow

I told them I could hook you up with somebody,

10

I help him to go to Waziristan.

11

Q

Did you tell Wali who you Najibullah

12

A

I don't remember.

13

Q

You said you told Wali you helped Hadis, Zarin and

14

Najibullah go to Waziristan.

15

going to Waziristan?

16

A

No.

17

Q

At some point --

18

They

up with?

Did you tell them why they were

withdrawn.

At the end of that conversation, what if anything

19

did Wali respond?

20

A

He said don't tell nobody.

21

Q

He said not to tell anybody?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

At some point did you move from New York?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

Where did you go?

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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A

Colorado.

2

Q

Did the rest of Wali's family go as well?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

When did the family move to Colorado?

5

A

2009, August 1st.

6

Q

Where did you live this Colorado?

7

A

Aurora, Smoky Hill.

8

Q

Aurora?

9

A

Smoky Hill.

10

Q

Is that the road you lived on?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

The street?

13

A

(No response.)

14

Q

How far from Denver, downtown Denver, is Aurora?

15

A

20 minutes, 30 minutes.

16

Q

You talked about Naqib, Zaheer and Babrak.

17

families also in Colorado at that time?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

When you moved to Colorado, who did you live with?

20

A

With Wali, Sultan Bibi, Tariq, Najibullah, Usman and

21

Khadija.

22

Q

23

names have come up before.

24

A

Wali's youngest kids.

25

Q

Approximately how old were they in 2009?

You mentioned Osman and Khadija.

SS

OCR

Were their

I don't believe those

Can you tell us who they are?

CM

CRR

CSR

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A

Eight and nine.

2

Q

How big was the apartment that Wali, Sultan Bibi,

3

Najibullah, Murwari, Tariq, yourself and Khadija and Hussain

4

lived in?

5

A

Three bedroom house.

6

Q

Earlier you talked about helping to destroy Najibullah's

7

chemicals.

8

house?

9

A

Did you ever see Najibullah using chemicals in the

Yes, one morning I saw him.

He was boiling something on

10

a teapot, asked him what is it.

He said don't worry about it.

11

I went to work, came back, I saw a greazer.

12

Q

What was a greazer?

13

A

Water heater.

14

Q

Approximately when was it you found boiling something on

15

the stove?

16

A

17

if it was August or September.

18

Q

Was it before or after you destroyed the chemical?

19

A

It was before.

20

Q

Can you just describe what the substance was that he was

21

boiling?

22

A

It looked like a gray color, like a clay.

23

Q

Was it a thick consistency?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

Approximately how much was in the teapot, did you see?

I don't know the exact time.

It was 2009.

I don't know

What did it look like?

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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A

Probably three-quarters.

2

Q

Full in the teapot?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Can you show with your hands about how big the teapot

5

was?

6

A

7
8

(Indicating).
MS. MARRUS:

Indicating maybe about a foot, a foot

and a half?

9

THE COURT:

10

MS. HARRIS:

Seems about right, a foot.

You agree?

Yes, your Honor.

11

Q

Where was he boiling the gray clay consistency substance?

12

A

In the kitchen.

13

Q

First of all, what time was it approximately?

14

A

Probably 8:30 or 9:00 o'clock.

15

Q

The morning or night?

16

A

Morning.

17

Q

Was anyone else home at that time?

18

A

I think Murwari was home.

19

Q

Did Najibullah appear to try to hide the liquid or was it

20

just out there on the stove?

21

MS. HARRIS:

22

THE COURT:

Objection.
Overruled.

23

A

It was just on the stove.

24

Q

What was he doing with the liquid?

25

A

No, he was sitting in the living room and the tea pot was

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

Did you see?

CSR

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on the stove.

2

Q

3

Approximately how much later did you come back?

4

A

Three hours.

5

Q

When you came back to the house, where was that gray

6

clay-like liquid?

7

A

Next to the greazer.

8

Q

The greazer you said was the water heater?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Where was the water heater?

11

A

In the kitchen.

12

Q

At this point what was the consistency of the liquid?

13

A

Kind of muddy.

14

Q

Again, was it out in the open or did he appear to try to

15

hide it?

16

A

It was open.

17

Q

Did you ever observe Najibullah watching any videos at

18

home?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

What kind of videos?

21

A

Jihadi.

22

Q

Pardon?

23

A

Jihadi.

24

Q

Did you ever watch parts of the videos with him?

25

A

Yes.

You said you left the house, you came back.

SS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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1

Q

Did you watch the whole videos or just parts of it?

2

A

A little bit.

3

Q

Did he continue to watch videos even after you stopped

4

watching the videos?

5

MS. HARRIS:

6

THE COURT:

Objection, your Honor.
Sustained.

7

Q

When you say he was watching Jihadi videos, can you

8

describe what you saw?

9

MS. HARRIS:

10
11

THE COURT:
the case.

12
13

Objection.
Let's break for lunch.

We'll resume at 2:00 o'clock.
THE COURT:

chairs.

Don't discuss

All rise.

Leave your transcript books on your

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

14

(Jury leaves courtroom.)

15

THE COURT:

16

(Witness leaves courtroom.)

17

THE COURT:

Please be seated, everyone.

18

THE COURT:

What do you want to elicit about this

19

Take the witness out, please.

witness, about the videos he watched?

20

MS. MARRUS:

Najibullah would watch videos in the

21

house, made no effort to hide the videos and that they were

22

Jihadi videos, just trying to explain what they meant, Jihadi

23

videos.

24

THE COURT:

25

MS. MARRUS:

SS

What's his testimony going to be?
That he would watch the videos in the

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

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346

house, did not make any effort to hide it.

2

THE COURT:

3

MS. MARRUS:

That's it?
That he would say there was fighting

4

in the videos, that it was Russian versus Mujahideen in the

5

video.

6

THE COURT:

7

MS. MARRUS:

8

THE COURT:

9

It's the Afghan/Russian conflict?
Yes.
How is it relevant to the charges

against this defendant?

10

MS. MARRUS:

Defense counsel has opened on the fact

11

Mr. Zazi had no knowledge what was going.

Given the fact

12

Mr. Zazi knew the defendant went to Waziristan, knew the car

13

was rented to go to New York and various other factors, that

14

that's simply incorrect.

15

Q

16

the obstruction charges?

17

A

He knew something was up.

How does that advance the ball for the government proving

He knew the nature of the FBI investigation.

18

THE COURT:

19

MS. HARRIS:

What's your objection?
I think they're essentially trying to

20

suggest constructive notice.

There's no direct evidence our

21

client was present watching the videos, especially given the

22

videos are a conflict many years ago, of little relevance,

23

frankly, to jihad, different type video than the one

24

described.

25

should have known about a suicide bombing plot in the New York

Has no relevance, being on constructive notice or

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347

City subways, too attenuated, substantial prejudice.
THE COURT:

I'll allow it.

The probative value

3

doesn't blow me away.

I don't see any unfair prejudice in it.

4

You could argue to the jury he wasn't there, he didn't see it,

5

but the obviousness of Najibullah's sentiments within that

6

household, I think, is fair game.

I'll allow it.

7

I want to see counsel at side bar, please.

8

(Continued on next page.)

9

(Pages 348 and 349 sealed by order of the court.)

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349

(Luncheon recess taken.)

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AFTERNOON

2

(Open court.)

3

THE COURT:

4

350

SESSION

Good afternoon.

Please be seated in

the back.

5

(Witness resumes.)

6

THE COURT:

7

MS. COLSON:

Yes, your Honor.

8

MS. HARRIS:

Yes.

9

THE COURT:

Are you ready?

Do you want to be heard any further on

10

that issue that we addressed briefly at the sidebar at the end

11

of the morning session?

12

MS. HARRIS:

No, your Honor.

13

MS. BERGER:

The government would request that the

14

portion of the transcript at the sidebar be sealed.

15

THE COURT:

Granted.

16

JOHN RILEY:

John Riley from Newsday.

On behalf of

17

the media, we would -- actually, I have a letter here

18

requesting the release of that transcript.

19

the sealing.

20

THE COURT:

I would object to

I will make the requisite findings.

21

Just so you know, it had to do with preclusion as

22

insufficiently relevant, a family matter.

23

If you want to submit something in writing, I

24

welcome it and I will probably do a little more formal

25

resolution of it.

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1

MR. RILEY:

Thank you.

2

THE COURT:

3

(Jury present.)

4

THE COURT:

5

MS. MARRUS:

May I inquire, your Honor?

6

THE COURT:

Yes, you may.

You're welcome.

Please be seated everyone.

7

DIRECT EXAMINATION

8

BY MS. MARRUS:

9

Q

Mr. Zazi, first of all, are you currently incarcerated?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

Before the break we were talking about events that were

12

going on in the house in Colorado.

13

gears and talk a little bit about jobs.

14

Colorado, did you have a job?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

What was your job?

17

A

Delivery.

18

Q

What did you deliver?

19

A

Food.

20

Q

What about Najibullah, did Najibullah have a job?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

As a taxi driver did Najibullah have his own car?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

What kind of car did he have?

25

A

He had a van.

(Continuing.)

I would like to switch
Were you employed in

He was a shadow taxi driver.

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1

Q

A van?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And Wali, did Wali I have a job?

4

A

No.

5

Q

And just to be clear, when I say Wali, is that your

6

understanding, Mohammed Wali Zazi?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

You talked about Naqib who is your aunt's husband.

9

Naqib have a job?

No.

We were opening a taxi company.

Did

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

What was his job?

12

A

He was a shadow driver too, taxi driver.

13

Q

You also talked about Babrak and Zaheer.

14

explain to the jury how you're related to Babrak and Zaheer?

15

A

Zaheer and Babrak's wife are my father cousins.

16

Q

When you say your father, who are you referring to?

17

A

Lai Mohammad and Wali, he's my uncle.

18

Q

They are brothers?

19

A

Brothers.

20

Q

Babrak and Zaheer are Wali and Lai's cousin?

21

A

No, their wives are our father uncle's cousins.

22

Q

What about the women in the family, do the women in the

23

family work?

24

A

No.

25

Q

Directing your attention to September of 2009.

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They are cousins.

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Najibullah leave Colorado to go on a trip?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

Where did he tell you he was going?

4

A

Chicago.

5

Q

Did he say why?

6

A

For tabligh.

7

Q

What is tabligh?

8

A

Islamic education.

9

THE INTERPRETER:

353

Preaching.

10

Q

So you said that Najibullah said that he was going on

11

tabligh, which you said is Islamic preaching?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

How did he leave, did he fly, did he drive, take a train?

14

A

He drove.

15

Q

What car did he drive?

16

A

No.

17

Q

How do you know that?

18

A

Because we try to eat food for fasting and he say, Can

19

you start the car.

20

he didn't working and he was at a window, like that's not the

21

car.

22

it up.

23

Q

Had you ever seen that car before?

24

A

No.

25

Q

Did Najibullah say anything to you about why he had

Did he drive his car?

He drove a rent a car.

So then I went to try and start it up but

Next to it, that's the car, start it up.

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rented a car as opposed to using his own car?

2

A

No.

3

Q

After Najibullah left did there come a time that you

4

learned from Wali that the FBI was investigating Najibullah?

5

Do you understand the question?

6

A

Yes.

But he came, he said Ahmad Wais called and said

7

there's FBI looking for four guys -- FBI showed Ahmad Wais

8

pictures.

9

Q

When you say he came and he said that Ahmad Wais -- that

10

he had spoken to Ahmad Wais, who is he?

11

A

Wali.

12

Q

And so when did you have this conversation, do you

13

remember, about how long after Najibullah left?

14

A

Probably 4, 5 days.

15

Q

And where were you at the time of the conversation, do

16

you recall?

17

A

Living room in my house.

18

Q

And who was present for that conversation?

19

A

I was there, Sultan Bibi, Murwari was there and I don't

20

know anybody else.

21

Q

22

Wais?

23

A

Our teacher from New York.

24

Q

And that is that picture down there in Government

25

Exhibit 16?

And when you said that Ahmad Wais called, who is Ahmad

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A

Yes.

2

Q

And what did Wali tell you that Ahmad Wais had said?

3

A

He said that FBI showed four pictures to Ahmad Wais

4

looking for them.

5

Q

6

those the pictures?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Did Wali tell you why the FBI was showing pictures to

9

Ahmad Wais?

Was Adis, Zarein, Najibullah and me.

You said Adis, Zarein, Najibullah and yourself.

Were

10

A

No.

11

Q

Based on what you learned from Wali that Ahmad Wais had

12

seen pictures of yourself, Najibullah, Adis and Zarein, did

13

you have any understanding about what the FBI investigation

14

would be about?

15

A

16

about Najim, Adis and Zarein, that they went to Waziristan.

17

Q

18

wise, where in fact was Najibullah Zazi?

19

A

In New York.

20

Q

How did you find that out?

21

A

Because when he called we were worried and we start

22

calling him and I try and call him like 6, 7 times and he

23

didn't pick up the phone and then later on he called and we

24

were like, Where are you?

25

People say anything, ask about me, tell them that I am here

I was thinking maybe they find out or somebody told them

At the time that Wali told but the conversation with

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for a coffee truck, for renewing a permit for a coffee truck.

2

Q

3

say about what you should say about why he was in New York?

What did he say about the reason he was -- what did he

4

MS. HARRIS:

Objection.

5

THE COURT:

Overruled.

6

Q

What did Najibullah say to tell people about why he was

7

in New York?

8

A

To renewing his coffee truck permit.

9

Q

Did you believe him?

10

A

No.

11

Q

Why?

12

A

Because first he said he going to Chicago, and then he is

13

in New York and why did he rent a car, why didn't he flew?

14

Q

You talked about Babrak and Zaheer.

15

A

Colorado.

16

Q

Where did they do?

17

A

Babrak have mechanic shop and he used to drive.

18

know how.

19

Q

Did Zaheer also work at that mechanic shop?

20

A

Sometime.

21

Q

Did there come a time that you were part of a

22

conversation in their garage, in September of 2009?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Approximately how long after Wali told you about his

25

conversation with Wais this conversation in the garage?

SS

Where did they work?

I don't

But he used to drive shadow.

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A

Couple of days later.

2

Q

Could you describe for the jury what happened in the

3

garage.

4

A

5

and went inside and Zaheer was there, Babrak was there, Ajmal

6

was there and Zaheer trying to start talking about Najibullah

7

and then they said -- Zaheer said or Babrak said there could

8

be chip in the garage and FBI could be listening.

Me and Wali went to the garage, took the car over there

9

So the music was on a little bit but then I told

10

them put the volume up and then I went outside, going forth

11

and back, and I came inside and Zaheer was telling Wali that

12

Naqib said that Najibullah was going to kill his self.

13

Q

14

about a chip.

15

A

I think Zaheer say that.

16

Q

What did you understand that to mean?

17

A

That they could be listening, recording something like

18

that.

19

Q

Who could be listening?

20

A

The FBI, the government.

21

Q

And because Zaheer believed that there could be a chip,

22

what did you do?

23

A

24

put it loud so he could make background noises or something

25

like that.

Let's go back through that.

First of all, you talked

Who was it who first talked about a chip?

The music was on but it was not that loud and I told him

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Q

Why did you tell him to make the music loud?

2

A

Because they mentioning they were talking about a chip so

3

I told them put the music on so nobody would listen.

4

Q

5

conversation about Najibullah.

6

conversation about?

7

Could you be a little more specific.

8

A

9

was going to kill his self.

And you said that in the mechanic shop that there was a

Yeah.

What specifically was that

You said something about killing himself.

Zaheer told Wali that Naqib saying that Najibullah

10

MS. HARRIS:

Objection.

11

THE COURT:

Come up to sidebar.

12

(Sidebar.)

13

(Continued next page.)

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THE COURT:

2

MS. MARRUS:

359

What is the testimony going to be?
Essentially that Zaheer had heard from

3

Naqib that Najibullah was going to kill himself and then later

4

they learned -- again, Zaheer finds out or says that he found

5

out from Naqib that Najibullah had chemicals at Naqib's house

6

and it was after that that they destroyed the chemicals.

7

I submit it's a coconspirator statement, part of the

8

conspiracy.

He was at the meeting.

9

clearly he knew what was going on.

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. MARRUS:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. MARRUS:

14

THE COURT:

15

MS. HARRIS:

16

Lying in the grand jury,

The hearsay is as to who?
Wali.
In the presence of this witness?
Correct.

I can further elicit that.

What is your objection?
I'm trying to track when he's actually

hearing something and when he is not hearing something.

17

MS. MARRUS:

My apology.

18

MS. HARRIS:

Protective measures.

19

THE COURT:

I'm sorry?

20

MS. HARRIS:

All right.

21

THE COURT:

22
23

Continue to lay that foundation.

If you

continue to have your objection you'll make it.
MS. HARRIS:

This may be a concern throughout the

24

case, but there is a lot of double hearsay, some of which may

25

rise to the level of a coconspirator statement and some which

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may not.

2
3

360

THE COURT:

Understood.

You will make your

objections.

4

MS. HARRIS:

5

THE COURT:

Thank you.
This prior objection, the one that I

6

overruled, I take it that evidence wasn't offered for the

7

truth?

8

MS. MARRUS:

9

prior objection was.

10

THE COURT:

11

That Najibullah -- I forget what the

So did I.

I was hoping that you would

remember.

12

MS. HARRIS:

A conversation when Najibullah was

13

still in New York, about telling people why he had gone to New

14

York.

15

MS. MARRUS:

He didn't believe that.

16

THE COURT:

Not only didn't he believe it, but

17

you're saying that it wasn't the truth, that Najibullah wasn't

18

uttering the truth, correct?

19

MS. MARRUS:

Correct.

20

THE COURT:

All right.

21

MS. HARRIS:

I was unclear at that point as well,

22

whether he was actually speaking directly with Najibullah at

23

that point.

24
25

MS. MARRUS:

I believe he said he was speaking to

Najibullah.

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MS. HARRIS:

361

I would reiterate, I mean whether -- to

lay a foundation maybe after the fact is not appropriate.

3

THE COURT:

4

MS. HARRIS:

That was a conversation -He said we were speaking to them.

5

was a phone conversation about we were speaking.

6

unclear whether he personally was speaking with him.

7
8
9
10
11
12

THE COURT:

It

It was

As long as it's said in the presence of

the witness and it's not offered for the truth.
MS. HARRIS:

Correct.

THE COURT:

Thank you.

The objection is overruled.

Lay a foundation.
(Continued next page.)

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(Open court.)

2

THE COURT:

362

I told you that would happen.

Thanks

3

for your patience.

4

BY MS. MARRUS:

5

Q

6

you present when Zaheer told Wali that Naqib had said that

7

Najibullah would kill himself?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

You actually heard Zaheer say that?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

First of all, when you referred to Najibullah, do you

12

refer to him by other names; do you shorten his name?

13

A

Najib.

14

Q

Najib refers to Najibullah?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

I wanted to make sure that was clear.

17

conversation in the garage, what, if anything, was Wali's

18

reaction to learning that Najibullah was going to kill

19

himself?

20

A

21

telling you and not telling me and Naqib?

22

Q

Who is the "he" referring to, why is who not telling me?

23

A

Naqib, why is Naqib not telling me and telling you that

24

and he's my son and not your son?

25

Q

So we were talking about the garage conversation.

Were

After you had the

It was fright first of all and he was like, Why that he's

Najibullah?

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A

Najibullah was Wali's son not Zaheer's son.

2

Q

You said during this garage conversation that Zaheer told

3

Wali that Najibullah is planning on killing himself.

4

hear whether Zaheer told or said how that was going to happen?

5

A

No.

6

Q

Did there come a time that Wali told you about a second

7

conversation he had with Zaheer?

8

A

9

Wali came home and said that Zaheer said now Naqib saying that

Yeah.

Did you

I was in the house with the family and Zaheer --

10

he have chemical in the garage and do something about it and

11

if anything happen I'm not responsible for it.

12

Q

First of all, approximately when was that, do you recall?

13

A

I have no idea.

14

Q

Was this before or after the garage conversation?

15

A

I think it was after.

16

Q

You said that Zaheer had talked about Naqib again.

17

did say Zaheer that Naqib had said?

18

A

19

chemicals in his garage and if anything happens I'm not

20

responsible for it and he told Wali that.

21

Q

Who had chemicals in Naqib's garage?

22

A

Najib.

23

Q

I'm sorry.

24

A

I was there, Sultan Bibi was there, and I don't know if

25

Murwari or Tariq was there.

What

He say that Naqib say -- Naqib saying now that he have

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Who was present for that conversation?

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Q

Did Wali talk about why Najibullah had chemicals at

2

Naqib's house?

3

A

No.

4

Q

What, if anything, was Wali's reaction to the information

5

that that Najibullah had chemicals at Naqib's house?

6

A

7

going to kill his self.

8

in his garage he going to tell me.

9

should have told me before and after later Rabia came.

Now first he say -- first he told Zaheer that he was
Now he saying that he have chemicals
Why is he tell Zaheer?

You talked briefly about when Rabia came.

He

10

Q

Did Rabia come

11

over to the house that same day?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

What was the conversation between Rabia, Wali, Sultan

14

Bibi and yourself at that time?

15

A

16

minutes and then Rabia went to the corner and point Sultan

17

Bibi to come in..

18

Q

So -- continue.

19

A

Point at her and she went there and then they talk for

20

two minutes or a minute, and later they came back and Sultan

21

Bibi told Wali that Rabia saying that Naqib send me here, he

22

said there's a chemical in any garage and if anybody happens

23

I'm not responsible for it.

24

something about it.

25

Q

Rabia came and we did the greeting, sat down for five

If you can do anything, do

Did you have any understanding what she meant when she

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said I'm not responsible if anything happens?

2

A

3

not responsible.

4

Q

5

an FBI investigation.

Like if the government find out, anything happens, we're

To your knowledge, you mentioned that you became aware of

6

Withdrawn.

After Rabia had talked about the chemicals in the

7

house, what was Wali's response?

8

A

9

have told us not Zaheer and he's telling us too late and what

He told Rabia that he should have told us -- Naqib should

10

kind of people are you, what kind of sister are you?

11

Rabia said, Oh, we're in the same position, he have stuff in

12

my garage.

13

responsible for it too.

14

And then

You know, if anything happen we could be

So then we made appointment and we were like we

15

going to come tomorrow 2 o'clock there, I mean, tomorrow

16

morning and we going to call you first and make like code

17

word, like we going to pick up the medicine and Wali told them

18

they going to come over there and take care of it.

19

Q

20

get in trouble, who was it that made the decision to destroy

21

the chemicals?

22

A

Wali.

23

Q

And when were you supposed to destroy the chemicals?

24

A

I think tomorrow.

25

Q

The day after that conversation?

After Rabia said, We're in the same situation, we can all

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1

A

Yes.

2

Q

Who was supposed to do that?

3

A

Me and Sultan Bibi go there.

4

Q

Did Wali say whether he would help you to destroy the

5

chemicals physically?

6

A

No.

7

Q

So you talked about a code word.

8

the jury what was the code word?

9

A

Can you describe for

It was like, I'm going to call our -- I was going to call

10

Rabia and tell her that I'm coming -- are you home or not, I'm

11

coming to your house to teach you how to use the medicine for

12

Sultan Bibi.

13

Q

14

take the medicine, what was that really supposed to mean?

15

A

16

chemicals.

17

Q

Why did you use a code word?

18

A

So if we were to say we coming to destroy the chemicals,

19

if the phone was tapped FBI would be there before us.

20

Q

21

that the phones were tapped?

22

A

When you said, I'm going to come over to teach you how to

We're coming there and we going to take care of the

So in addition to the chips in the houses did you believe

Yes.

23

MS. HARRIS:

Objection.

24

THE COURT:

Overruled.

25

Q

Who came up with the code word?

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1

A

I have no idea.

2

Q

Was Sultan Bibi in fact taking medicine at that time?

3

A

Yes, she was sick.

4

Q

She was sick?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Do you know what kind of medicine she was taking?

7

A

No.

8

Q

Let's talk about the following morning.

9

the plan was to do all of this the next day.

10

steps that morning to destroy the chemicals?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

What did you do?

13

A

I called Rabia and I call her like I'm coming, we're

14

coming and teach us how -- you know, we used the code word and

15

then we left, we went to Rabia's house, Naqib's house and

16

knock on the door and Rabia opened the door.

17

You said that
Did you take any

We went inside and Naqib was standing inside the

18

door -- in the living room.

19

and check around and then Rabia and Sultan Bibi went to the

20

garage, came back out and two minutes later they went back in

21

and got the chemicals, went upstairs to the second floor

22

bathroom and --

23

Q

All right.

24

A

And --

25

Q

So after they went -- when they went up to the bathroom

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1

with the chemicals, where did you go?

2

A

Go upstairs and come down, go upstairs and come down.

3

Q

What were you doing?

4

A

Checking around, what's going on.

5

Q

Sorry?

6

A

Checking on them.

7

Q

Where was Naqib at the time, was Naqib home?

8

A

Yeah, he was in the living room staying downstairs.

9

Q

At some point did you smell anything?

10

A

Bleach.

11

Q

What happened after you smelled the bleach?

12

A

I went upstair and somehow Naqib said there is a lot of

13

smell, a lot of bleach smell, and I went upstair and told him

14

there's a lot of smell and he dumped it and somebody said turn

15

on the fan or the AC, open the windows.

16

Q

17

the garage initially when you first got to the house.

18

did they take out of the garage?

19

A

Two containers and a mask and goggles and a measure cup.

20

Q

The containers, what kind of containers were they?

21

A

Plastic, white plastic.

22

Q

And to your knowledge, is that what the chemicals were

23

in?

24

A

Inside.

25

Q

You talked about masks and goggles and a measuring cup.

You mentioned that Sultan Bibi and Rabia had gone into

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1

What did you do with -- let's start first with the mask.

What

2

happened to the mask?

3

A

4

of smoke inside, and then they cut it and they trying to break

5

the goggles, they couldn't and I break it down.

6

measuring cup, they trying to break it down.

7

it, so then I told them use it as a laundry, laundry measure

8

cup.

9

Q

You said "they" tried to burn the mask.

10

A

Rabia and Sultan Bibi.

11

Q

After they tried and failed to burn the mask, what

12

happened to the mask?

13

A

I cut it down 2, 3 pieces, each mask.

14

Q

What did they cut the mask with?

15

A

A knife.

16

Q

Why did they use a knife?

17

A

Because we had no scissors.

18

Q

What about the goggles, what happened to the goggles?

19

A

I break them down in half.

20

Q

You did?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And you said the measuring cup, what did you try to do to

23

the measuring cup?

24

A

25

break.

They're trying to burn it, and I was like there's a lot

And the

I couldn't break

Who is they?

Put them inside and break them outside but it didn't
I told them use it as a laundry cup.

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1

Q

What happened -- you mentioned the containers.

2

happened to the containers?

3

A

Cut them down to pieces.

4

Q

Was it before or after they had spilled the chemicals?

5

A

After.

6

Q

And who cut up the containers?

7

A

Rabia and Sultan Bibi.

8

Q

What did they cut up the containers with?

9

A

A knife.

10

Q

So now you have the pieces of the containers, the cut up

11

mask, the broken goggles, what did you do with all of those

12

items?

13

A

Put them in a plastic bag.

14

Q

What happened to that plastic bag?

15

A

Put them in Osman school bag.

16

Q

Can you explain how it was that Osman came to be at the

17

house?

18

A

19

stuff?

20

school anyway in like half hour.

21

home and put in there the bookbag, so that's how we going to

22

walk with the bookbag so the government thinking they came in

23

from school and put that bag in the bookbag so they won't know

24

what happened inside.

25

Q

We pick him up.

What

How we going to do it now with this

I told them, Osman, the kid's going to get off from
We pick him up and bring him

So, first of all, who were you talking to when you were

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1

discussing what to do with the pieces?

2

A

Rabia and Naqib and Sultan Bibi.

3

Q

Whose idea was to it put the pieces of the chemical

4

container, the mask and the goggles in Osman's bookbag?

5

A

Mine.

6

Q

Did you pick up Osman?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

From where?

9

A

From school.

10

Q

What happened when you came back to Rabia's house?

11

A

Put that bag in his bookbag.

12

Q

And then what happened?

13

A

Then we left and just drove around couple of minutes and

14

we went to our complex and then we trying to climb the stairs

15

up and Sultan Bibi told Osman dump that in a dumpster and I

16

give you $5.

17

Q

18

didn't you go straight home?

19

A

20

that and dump it in the dumpster they will know what happened

21

so at least we buy some food and we will have a lot of

22

shopping bags, so that's how it was.

23

You said that you drove around for a little while.

Why

If we go straight ahead, we took that bag out, if we do

(Continued next page)

24
25

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372

BY MS. MARRUS:

2

Q

And when you say you thought they would find it in the

3

dumpster, who were you referring to?

4

going to find it?

5

A

The government.

6

Q

At that point in time, what was your impression as to

7

whether or not -- withdrawn.

8

Who did you think was

When you got home, where was the dumpster?

9

A

It's like twenty feet away from us.

10

Q

From your house?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

How far is Naqib's house from Wali's house?

13

A

Ten minutes' drive.

14

Q

Approximately how long did it take you to get home?

15

A

First, I went to the store, took me like a half hour to

16

drive, and came back, probably forty minutes -- I mean, an

17

hour, hour and ten minutes.

18

Q

What did Osman do with that plastic bag?

19

A

Dumped it in a dumpster.

20

Q

When you got home, who was home?

21

A

Wali, Murwari and Tariq.

22

Q

When you got home, did you have any conversations with

23

Wali?

24

A

25

Yes, one upstairs.

He said, What happened?

We said, The job is finished.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Everything is taken

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373

care of.

2

He said, Okay, good.

3

Q

When you said "The job is finished," what were you

4

referring to?

5

A

Just dumped evidence in the dumpster.

6

Q

You mentioned that Osman put the plastic bag containing

7

the evidence in the dumpster.

8

A

It was gone for like four days.

9

Q

How did you learn that the dumpster was taken away?

10

A

The dumpster never been taken more than an hour.

11

time, it was gone for three days, four days.

12

Q

I'm sorry?

13

A

Three or four days.

14

Q

Did you have any conversations about it with the family?

15

A

We're like, What happened to the dumpster?

16

like, Where is it?

17

Q

I'm sorry.

18

A

Was worried.

19

Q

Why?

20

A

Because it could be checked by the government.

21

happened before.

22

Q

When you say everyone was worried, who was everyone?

23

A

Wali, Sultan Bibi, Rabia, Wali.

24

Q

Did there come a time when the FBI searched Mohammed and

25

Rabia's house?

What happened to the dumpster?

This

Everybody is

Everyone was?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

It never

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1

A

2

dumpster evidence, destroyed.

3

Q

4

to the FBI office?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

About how long after the FBI search of Naqib and Rabia's

7

house?

8

A

Three hours later, we went to the FBI's office.

9

Q

The same day of the search?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

Why did you have to go to the FBI?

12

A

For a handwriting test.

13

Q

Did you go by yourself or anyone else?

14

A

Me and Rabia went.

15

Q

When you were at the FBI office to do the handwriting

16

test, did the FBI tell you whether or not you would have to

17

come back?

18

A

19

2:00 o'clock for fingerprints.

20

Q

Did you go back?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Before you went back for your fingerprints, did you have

23

any discussions with anyone in the family -- withdrawn.

24
25

Yes.

374

A day after or two days after we dumped the

Did there come a time when you learned that you had to go

Yes, they told us, You have to come back tomorrow

Did you have any discussions with Wali about having
to go back to the FBI?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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375

1

A

2

to do handwriting, and somehow in the morning, Wali called and

3

he said he was talking to Rabia about adoption stuff, and then

4

he's -- he tell him to give me the phone, and I was trying to

5

talk to him.

6

I spent the first time at Rabia house, that we went

He said, Why won't you come home?

And then I went home, and then he said, They ask you

7

to come to the FBI office 2:00 o'clock today.

8

I said, Yes, we're going.

9

And he said, Rabia and Naqib are going, too?

10

I said, Yes.

11

He said, Why won't we go in the same car?

12

And somehow, somebody called or something happened,

13

and for five minutes, we stopped.

14

Q

15

back to the FBI about your relationship?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

What was that conversation?

18

A

He said that, Your case just came out about that you were

19

two years old when you were adopted.

20

your parents in Afghanistan.

21

Q

He was talking to you about being adopted?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Were you adopted?

24

A

No.

25

Q

Had you ever heard from anyone before, anything about

Did you have any conversations with Wali before you went

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Then we brought you from

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1

adoption?

2

A

No.

3

Q

When did you first move in with Wali?

4

A

1999, August 1.

5

Q

And how old were you?

6

A

Twelve or thirteen.

7

Q

Who did you live with up until the time you were twelve

8

or thirteen?

9

A

My mother.

10

Q

And prior to this time in 2009, had Wali ever said

11

anything to you before about being adopted?

12

A

No.

13

Q

Did you in fact go back to the FBI office that night?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

With who?

16

A

Me and Wali and Sultan Bibi and Murwari.

17

Q

Did you have tests done at the FBI?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

What tests?

20

A

Fingerprints and DNA tests.

21

Q

Were DNA tests done, as well?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Did you have any conversations with Wali at the FBI

24

office?

25

A

Yes.

He said, when we were downstairs, first, we did a

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

fingerprints, and then he said, They are going to do your DNA

2

test, just to show that you are not my son.

3

you're not my son and you're adopted.

4

Q

5

receive a subpoena?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

For what?

8

A

For grand jury.

9

Q

Where was the grand jury?

10

A

New York, Brooklyn.

11

Q

Do you remember about when this was?

12

A

After FBI office.

13

Q

Do you know how long after the FBI office?

14

A

Probably a week or two weeks later.

15

Q

Did anyone else in your family receive a subpoena to

16

testify in the grand jury in Brooklyn?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Who?

19

A

Naqib -- Naqib, Rabia, Sultan Bibi, Murwari, Tariq and

20

me.

21

Q

22

subpoena?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Was that conversation at Babrak's house that you

25

summarized before?

And that's true,

Now, at some point after getting DNA tested, did you

Did the family have a conversation about receiving a

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

A

Yes.

2

Q

Approximately how long after receiving that subpoena did

3

you have that conversation?

4

A

I think the same day or the next day.

5

Q

Who was present?

6

A

In Babrak's house?

7

Q

Yes.

8

A

Barbak, Zaher; Zaher was there, Barbak was there.

9

Kubra was.

Murwari was there.

I don't remember.

Kubra.

I was there.

10

Q

When you came to the house, what were people doing?

11

A

Just sitting around watching TV.

12

Q

What was on TV at the time?

13

A

I think they were watching a movie.

14

Q

Did the news come on at some point?

15

A

Yes, later on.

16

Q

What came on the news?

17

A

Najib.

18

Q

Did Wali make any comments about Najibullah on the news?

19

MS. HARRIS:

20

THE COURT:

Objection.
Overruled.

21

A

What?

22

Q

Did Wali make any comments?

23

A

Yes.

24

clubs, and -- he didn't go to clubs.

25

with drugs.

He said he didn't do nothing.

He didn't go to

He didn't got caught

He's a kind of hero.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

Q

2

conversation about the subpoena -- withdrawn.

After you watched the news, you said earlier there was a

3

So, you were watching the news.

At some point, did

4

the conversation shift to talking about the subpoena?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Can you describe what happened?

7

A

Everybody said, Who got a subpoena?

8

Zaher, Barbak, Wali -- Wali, like, we don't know nothing.

9

MR. HARRIS:

10

THE COURT:

And everybody,

Objection.
Sustained.

Lay a foundation for this.

11

Q

Were you a part of this conversation, Mr. Zazi?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And at this point in time, when was this conversation

14

with respect to destroying the chemicals?

15

A

I don't understand.

16

Q

Did you destroy the chemicals before or after you had

17

this conversation?

18

A

Before.

19

Q

And who did you destroy the chemicals with?

20

A

With Rabia and Naqib -- I mean, Rabia, Sultan Bibi and

21

me.

22

Q

25

Can you repeat the question?

And you testified earlier -- withdrawn.

23
24

Who had told you to destroy the chemicals?
A

379

Wali.
MS. HARRIS:

Objection.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

THE COURT:

380

Overruled.

2

A

Wali.

3

Q

So, it's fair to say that all of those people knew about

4

the chemicals in Naqib's house at this time?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

And you talked earlier about a conversation with Zaher in

7

the garage about Najibullah killing himself?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Was that before or after this conversation in Babrak's

10

house?

11

A

It was before.

12

Q

Was Babrak a part of the earlier conversation in the

13

garage, as well?

14

A

15

the car, and I don't know if he was listening or not.

16

Q

17

Najibullah had chemicals at Naqib's house, I guess?

I have no idea.

Maybe he was busy.

He was working on

You testified earlier about Zaher telling Wali that

18

MR. HARRIS:

19

THE COURT:

Objection.
Overruled.

20

A

Zaher told Wali that Naqib is saying that he have

21

chemicals in his garage.

22

Q

23

Was that conversation with Zaher about the chemicals, was that

24

before or after the subpoena conversation in the house?

25

A

Was that before or after this conversation in the house?

It was before.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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381

1

Q

You said that Wali had talked to you about being adopted.

2

Was that before or after the conversation in this house?

3

MR. HARRIS:

4

THE COURT:

5

-- come up to sidebar, please.

6

(Sidebar.)

7

THE COURT:

8

Objection.
Sustained.

I really wanted you to lay

What's the basis of your objection, by

the way?

9

MR. HARRIS:

The objection is, who was speaking, and

10

to establish whether or not once we know who is speaking,

11

whether or not there's an evidentiary basis for the admission

12

of the statement.

13

THE COURT:

14

MS. HARRIS:

15

THE COURT:

16

MS. MARRUS:

17

(In open court.)

18

BY MS. MARRUS:

19

Q

20

talking to?

21

A

I apologize.

Everybody had a subpoena.

I misunderstood.

We just went there, because --

Slow down.

-- because Sultan Bibi was there.

24
25

That's the foundation I want you to lay.

Who was discussing the subpoena?

THE COURT:
A

Right.

During this conversation at Babrak's house, who were you

22
23

In this conversation at Babrak's house?

THE COURT:

Listen to the question.

Answer the

question.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1

MS. MARRUS:

382

I'll rephrase the question.

2

Q

Did Wali talk at this meeting at Babrak's house?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Did Zaher talk at the meeting at Babrak's house?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Did you talk at the meeting at Babrak's house?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Did Rabia talk at the meeting at Babrak house?

9

A

No.

10

Q

How about Sultan Bibi?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

Focusing just on those people, what did they say about

13

the subpoena?

14

A

They said everybody --

15

MR. HARRIS:

16

THE COURT:

17

Do you recall who said what?

18

THE WITNESS:

19

MR. HARRIS:

20

THE COURT:

21

Listen to my question.

22

Objection.
Sustained.

Objection.
Overruled.
Listen to me:

Do you recall

who said what, which person said what thing?

23

THE WITNESS:

24

THE COURT:

25

Everybody said, We got the subpoena.

Which one are you referring to?

In this conversation at Babrak's house,

do you recall which person said which thing?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

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1
2

THE WITNESS:

THE COURT:

And do you recall, of those things that

you recall being said, do you remember who said them?

5

THE WITNESS:

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

Kubra and Rabia and I.

9

THE COURT:

10
11

There were many things said, but I

recall just some of it.

3
4

383

Yes.

Who?
Babrak and Wali and Zaher and Roqia,

The objection is overruled.

Do the best you can to elicit attributions to people
as to what was said.

12

You have your objection.

13

MS. MARRUS:

It's overruled.

Yes, your Honor.

14

BY MS. MARRUS:

15

Q

What did Wali say during that meeting?

16

A

Wali said he didn't do nothing and they just -- they are

17

just doing their job, the government, you know, to prove it

18

that he did or -- something or not, but he didn't do nothing,

19

and don't worry about it, and --

20

Q

Have you finished your answer?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

At the end of that meeting, did you have another

23

conversation with Wali?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

What did he say to you?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

384

1

A

When I was leaving, Wali said that, Remember, son, that

2

you were two years old and I adopted you from your parents and

3

you just found out.

4

grand jury, just tell them, I don't know nothing, go ask my

5

father.

6

Q

7

you understand that to mean?

If they ask you any other question in the

And when Wali told you you don't know nothing, what did

8

MS. HARRIS:

9

THE COURT:

Objection.
Overruled.

10

A

Like, I don't know nothing, don't ask me no more

11

questions.

12

Q

13

understanding of that what pertained to?

14

A

That was about adoption.

15

Q

Did there come a time that you actually traveled to the

16

grand jury in Brooklyn?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Who traveled with you?

19

A

Me and Murwari and Tariq went in a different airport, and

20

Naqib and Sultan Bibi and Rabia and Mohammed flew in another

21

airplane.

22

Q

Who is Mohammed?

23

A

Mohammed is son of Rabia.

24

Q

Was he going to testify in the grand jury?

25

A

No.

If you have anything, go ask Wali.

Was that pertaining just to the adoption?

What was your

We just took him, because --

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 167 of 280 PageID #: 1242
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

385

1

Q

How old is he?

2

A

Five years old.

3

Q

Where did you stay when you came to Brooklyn?

4

A

In a Marriott hotel.

5

Q

Did you testify in the grand jury?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

Did you tell the truth?

8

A

No.

9

Q

Let's talk about some of the questions you were asked in

10

the grand jury.

Were you asked questions about, Who are your

11

parents?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Were you asked questions about your relationship to Wali?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Did you tell the truth?

16

A

No.

17

Q

What did you say?

18

A

I said, they are my adoption father.

19

Q

Who is your adoption father?

20

A

Wali and Sultan Bibi.

21

Q

Were you asked questions about Najibullah traveling

22

anywhere else while he was in Pakistan?

23

A

Yeah.

24

Q

Did you tell truth?

25

A

No.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 168 of 280 PageID #: 1243
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

Q

What did you say?

2

A

I told them they went to Tabligh and Lahore.

3

Q

Again, can you explain what Tabligh is?

4

A

Preaching.

5

Q

Does that have anything to do with Jihadi training?

6

A

No.

7

Q

Was that true?

8

A

No.

9

Q

Were you asked about the names and identities of

386

10

Najibullah's friends who had traveled to Pakistan with him?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

Did you tell the truth?

13

A

No.

14

Q

What did you say?

15

A

I don't know them.

16

Q

Were you asked about whether or not you had ever handled

17

a gun?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Did you tell the truth?

20

A

No.

21

Q

What did you say?

22

A

I never had it.

23

Q

When did you have the gun?

24

A

When I was overseas.

25

Q

Why?

I never seen it.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 169 of 280 PageID #: 1244
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

A

Just protection.

2

Q

Did you ever use it?

3

A

No.

4

Q

Did you ever use any gun?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

For?

7

A

For just targeting.

8

Q

Why didn't you tell the truth about that?

9

A

Protecting myself.

10

Q

After the grand jury, did you meet with the members of

11

your family?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Where?

14

A

In the hotel.

15

Q

That was the Marriott?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Who was present for that conversation?

18

A

Rabia, Sultan Bibi, Murwari, Tariq.

19

Q

What did you say about what you had said in the grand

20

jury?

21

A

I told them --

22

MR. HARRIS:

23

THE COURT:

24

Go ahead.

25

A

387

Objection.
Overruled.

I told them that -- I told them that I told in the grand

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 170 of 280 PageID #: 1245
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

388

1

jury that Najib, Zarin and Adis went to Tabligh in Pakistan,

2

and Sultan Bibi and Murwari got pissed.

3

you told them?

They said, Why did

4

I told them, What should I tell?

5

Then they make me more pissed, and I told them --

6

MS. HARRIS:

7

THE COURT:

8

THE WITNESS:

9

THE COURT:

10

(Sidebar.)

11

THE COURT:

What's the objection?

12

MR. HARRIS:

Hearsay, your Honor.

13

THE COURT:

14

MS. MARRUS:

Objection.
Who was present at this conversation?
Rabia, Sultan Bibi, Murwari and Tariq.

Come up.

What's the answer?
I believe what the witness is going to

15

testify to that everyone was talking about how they were upset

16

that Amanullah Zazi, talking about anything in the grand jury,

17

because they were all co-conspirators in the conspiracy, to

18

lie in the grand jury about what Najibullah was up to.

19
20
21
22
23
24
25

THE COURT:

Give me this roster one more time in the

Brooklyn Marriott.
MS. MARRUS:

Sultan Bibi, his wife, is Murwari, his

daughter, and Tariq, his son, and Rabia, who is Naqib's wife.
THE COURT:

Your evidentiary posture here, these are

coconspirator statements -MS. MARRUS:

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 171 of 280 PageID #: 1246
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1
2

THE COURT:

389

-- in furtherance of the conspiracy to

provide false testimony to a grand jury?

3

MS. MARRUS:

4

THE COURT:

5

MR. HARRIS:

Correct.
What's your answer to that?
Frankly, the only thing that is in the

6

record now, this conspiracy involving our client, the

7

conspiracy to lie about the "adoption" issue.

8

there's been a foundation laid for a bigger conspiracy about

9

other false statements.

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. MARRUS:

12

grand jury.

I don't think

Your answer to that?
Lying in the grand jury is lying in the

I don't think we can parse it out so finely.

13

THE COURT:

The objection is overruled.

14

(In open court.)

15

BY MS. MARRUS:

16

Q

17

Murwari, Tariq and Sultan Bibi after your grand jury

18

testimony?

19

A

20

Mr. Zazi, we're talking about what you had told Rabia,

They were asking me, What did you say?
I told them that I said nothing else.

21

Najib and Adis and Zarein went to Tabligh.

22

Q

And you said that they became upset?

23

A

Yes, they became upset.

I told that

They said, Why did you say that?

24

I was like, What else should have I have said?

25

Then they make me pissed, and I told them, I'm going

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 172 of 280 PageID #: 1247
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

390

1

to tell them everything.

2

Q

After your grand jury testimony, did you go to Colorado?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Did you have any conversations with Wali about your grand

5

jury testimony?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

What did you talk about?

8

MS. HARRIS:

9

THE COURT:

10

A

Objection.
Overruled.

I told him that -- he asked, What happened?

11

I told him, Nothing happened.

And I knew it, that

12

Sultan Bibi was going to tell about the police stuff because I

13

made them pissed.

14

Najib and Adis and Zarein went to Tabligh.

15

I told Wali that I told the grand jury that

And he said, Okay, that's good, no problem.

16

Q

Let's talk about what happened leading up to your arrest?

17

Did there come a time that you were arrested in this case?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Before you were arrested, did you have meetings with

20

federal agents?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Approximately when did you first start meeting with

23

federal agents?

24

A

2009, December, like.

25

Q

Where were you living when you first started meeting with

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 173 of 280 PageID #: 1248
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

391

1

agents?

2

A

Colorado.

3

Q

With whom?

4

A

With the agents.

5

Q

When you first started meeting with agents, who were you

6

living with?

7

A

With Wali.

8

Q

Did there come a time that you moved from Wali's house?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Do you remember approximately when?

11

A

I have no idea.

12

Q

About how soon after you started meeting with federal

13

agents?

14

A

Probably a week, two weeks later.

15

Q

Where did you move to?

16

A

To Rabia's house.

17

Q

Did there come a time that you moved out of Rabia's

18

house?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Where did you go?

21

A

To the hotel.

22

Q

Do you know how long after you moved into Rabia's house

23

you moved out?

24

A

Two, three weeks later.

25

Q

You mentioned you moved to a motel.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

Who paid for the

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 174 of 280 PageID #: 1249
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

hotel?

2

A

Government.

3

Q

Where was the hotel?

4

A

Colorado.

5

Q

Why did you go to a hotel?

6

A

Because I had nowhere else to go.

7

Q

While you were at the hotel, did you meet with federal

8

agents?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

What did you discuss?

11

A

About the case.

12

Q

When you say the "case," what do you mean?

13

A

About Naqib and Adis and Zarein, my case.

14

Q

Did you provide information to the agents?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

Did there come a time that you -- withdrawn.

17

392

Did there come a time that the agents brought you to

18

New York?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Where did you stay when you came to New York?

21

A

In a motel.

22

Q

Who paid for the hotel?

23

A

Government.

24

Q

Did you have a job?

25

A

No.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 175 of 280 PageID #: 1250
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

393

1

Q

Why not?

2

A

Because I was meeting with the government, keep going

3

forth and back.

4

Q

About how often would you meet with the government?

5

A

Every day.

6

Q

I'm sorry?

7

A

Every day.

8

Q

What were you talking about when you met with the

9

government?

10

A

About Najib and Adis and Zarein overseas, What happened?

11

What did you do?

12

Q

Is it fair to say that you met with agents a lot?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Were you completely truthful when you met with agents?

15

A

No.

16

Q

Among other things, did you tell the truth about how

17

Najibullah got the training?

18

A

No.

19

Q

What were some of the things you said?

20

A

I never went to Waziristan, I never took them.

21

lot.

22

Q

23

to get explosives?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

What did you say?

Who did it?

I lied a

But I don't remember.
Did you talk about whether or not you went to Najibullah

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 176 of 280 PageID #: 1251
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

394

1

A

I said I followed him and I lied.

2

Q

That was not true?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Did you talk about whether or not you had ever provided

5

information to the Police Department before?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

What did you say?

8

A

I lied.

9

Q

What did you say?

10

A

I told them I used to give up drug dealers to a cop.

11

Q

Why did you say that?

12

A

To get a credit.

13

Q

Did you talk about who told you to destroy the chemicals?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Did you tell the truth about that?

16

A

No.

17

Q

What did you say?

18

A

I told them me and Sultan Bibi and Rabia, we destroyed

19

it.

20

Q

Why did you lie about that?

21

A

Because I didn't want them to be in trouble.

22

Q

Mr. Zazi, you talked about pleading guilty.

23

willingly plead guilty pursuant to a cooperation agreement?

24

A

25

Did you

Yes.
MS. MARRUS:

This is not yet in evidence, your

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 177 of 280 PageID #: 1252
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus
1

Honor.

2

THE COURT:

Okay.

3

Q

Showing you what's been marked for identification as

4

Government's Exhibit 44.

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Turning to the last page, do you recognize this?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

What is that?

9

A

My signature.

10

Q

What document is this?

11

A

Cooperation.

12

Q

Is it your cooperation agreement?

13

A

Yes.

14
15

MS. MARRUS:

Do you see that up on the video?

Your Honor, at this time, I offer

Government's Exhibit 44 into evidence.

16

MS. HARRIS:

No objection.

17

THE COURT:

18

(So marked.)

Received.

19

Q

When did you plead guilty, Mr. Zazi?

20

A

2010, January 5.

21

Q

What did you plead guilty to?

22

A

Taking Najib and Adis and Zarein to Al-Qaeda training,

23

and plus destroying chemicals and lying to the grand jury.

24

Q

Those are two separate charges?

25

A

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

395

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 178 of 280 PageID #: 1253
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

396

1

Q

What penalties do you face for the crimes you pled guilty

2

to?

3

A

Thirty years.

4

Q

Is that the most time you can do, thirty years?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

What is your understanding of what you have agreed to do

7

under your cooperation agreement?

8

A

Tell the truth and cooperate and testify.

9

Q

If you comply with your cooperation agreement, if you

10

tell the truth, cooperate and testify, what is your

11

understanding of what the government has agreed to do for you?

12

A

To write a letter to the judge.

13

Q

What's the letter called, do you know?

14

A

I don't know.

15

Q

What's in that letter?

16

A

Good and bad.

17

Q

Can you explain what you mean?

18

A

What I did bad and what I did good.

19

Q

So, when you talk about what you did bad, what do you

20

mean?

21

A

22

training, and destroying chemicals, I took drugs, other stuff.

23

Q

When you say "good," what do you mean?

24

A

Cooperating, telling the truth.

25

Q

Information you provided?

Taking Najib and Adis and Zarein to Waziristan for

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 179 of 280 PageID #: 1254
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

397

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

Who does that letter go to?

3

A

The judge.

4

Q

What is your understanding of what that letter does?

5

A

I don't know.

6

Q

Is that letter important to you?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Why?

9

A

Because the judge could decide I did good or bad.

10

Q

So, the judge can consider that letter when sentencing

11

you?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

If the government writes that letter for you, what's the

14

lowest sentence you can receive?

15

A

Zero.

16

Q

Even if the government writes the letter for you, what's

17

the most you can receive?

18

A

Thirty.

19

Q

Thirty?

20

A

Thirty years.

21

Q

Who makes that decision, who decides what you get

22

sentenced to?

23

A

The judge.

24

Q

Does the government recommend a sentence?

25

A

No.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 180 of 280 PageID #: 1255
A. Zazi - direct - Marrus

398

1

Q

What happens if you violate your cooperation agreement?

2

A

Cooperation will be ripped up.

3

Q

Do you get to take your plea back?

4

A

No.

5

Q

Mr. Zazi, you indicated earlier that you are currently in

6

jail.

7

A

Last week.

8

Q

Prior to last week, were you out of jail?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Why did you go to jail?

11

A

Because I told them I'm not going to testify.

12

Q

And you told who?

13

A

The government.

14

Q

Did you also --

15

A

And plus, I was taking drugs.

16

Q

What drugs?

17

A

Marijuana, cocaine.

When did you go to jail?

18

MS. MARRUS:

19

THE COURT:

20

(Pause.)

21

MS. MARRUS:

22

THE COURT:

23

Ms. Harris.

24

MS. HARRIS:

25

THE COURT:

Can I have a moment, your Honor?
Sure.

No further questions.
Thank you, Ms. Marrus.

One moment to gather my papers?
Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

Take your time.

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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A. Zazi - cross - Harris

399

1

CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. HARRIS:

3

Q

Good afternoon.

4

A

Good afternoon.

5

Q

Now, before you came to the United States, you lived in

6

Pakistan; is that correct?

7

A

Yes, ma'am.

8

Q

And you were a child then?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And when you lived in Pakistan, you lived in a family

11

compound; correct?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And you lived there with your biological father?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

Your biological mother?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

And Sultan Bibi lived there, as well; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And that's Mr. Zazi's wife?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And she helped take care of you; correct?

22

A

Actually, my mother and Sultan Bibi, and there was my

23

other uncle's wife were like all the same, same family.

24

were never separated at that time, and everybody had their own

25

turn to cook, everybody have their own schedule, and we were

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

We

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 182 of 280 PageID #: 1257
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

kids and outside all the time.

2

Q

3

all the children; correct?

4

A

5

but the cooking for the family is different term.

6

Q

You lived together with your cousins; correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Najibullah?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Tariq?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

Murwayi?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And I'm going to show you -- Judge, for the witness --

400

It's fair to say that the women took turns taking care of

Yes.

15

But everybody is taking their own children care,

THE COURT:

Yes.

16

Q

17

And that's a picture of you as a child; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And next to you -- you're the shorter child on the right?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Next to you is Najibullah; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And that picture was taken in Pakistan?

24

A

Yes.

25

-- what has been premarked as Defendant's Exhibit 10.

MS. HARRIS:

I would like to admit Defendant's

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 183 of 280 PageID #: 1258
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

Exhibit 10.

2

THE COURT:

Any objection?

3

MS. MARRUS:

4

THE COURT:

5

(So marked.)

No, your Honor.
Received.

6

Q

This picture is taken at the family house; correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

During this time period, Mr. Zazi, Wali, who you have

9

referred to as "Wali," he was living in the United States;

10

correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

And he would come back to visit Pakistan; correct?

13

A

He came once, I think.

14

Q

He also sent money home; correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

To help support everyone in the house; correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And I would like to show you now what I have marked --

19

for the witness, your Honor -- as Defendant's Exhibit 8.

20

That's you in the front row; correct, in the center?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And the taller boy next to you is Najibullah?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And the other boy in the uniform is Tariq?

25

A

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

401

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 184 of 280 PageID #: 1259
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

402

1

Q

And standing behind you is Mohammed Wali Zazi; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And the woman is Sultan Bibi?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And the younger girl behind you is Murwayi; correct?

6

A

Yes.

7
8

MS. HARRIS:

I would like to move for the admission

of Defendant's Exhibit 8, your Honor.

9

MS. MARRUS:

No objection.

10

THE COURT:

Received.

11

(So marked.)

12

BY MS. HARRIS:

13

Q

This picture was taken in Pakistan; correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

And in that picture, you're wearing a school uniform?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

That was a private school; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And a school that cost money; correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And Mr. Zazi paid for that school; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And that was the same school that Najibullah went to?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

And the same school that Tariq went to?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 185 of 280 PageID #: 1260
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

A

Yes.

2

Q

I would now like to show you what has been marked as

3

Defendant's Exhibit 9.

4

you're in the blue; is that correct?

5

I'm sorry.

6

A

I don't know what color.

7

Q

You're in the front row; correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

In the brown outfit?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And standing next to you is Murwayi?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Standing behind you is Mr. Zazi?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

And Sultan Bibi?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Najibullah?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And Tariq?

20

A

Yes.

21
22

That's another picture, I believe

MS. HARRIS:

You're in the white?

Your Honor, I would like to move for

the admission of Defendant's Exhibit 9.

23

MS. MARRUS:

No objection.

24

THE COURT:

25

(So marked.)

Received.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

403

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 186 of 280 PageID #: 1261
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

404

1

Q

And that picture, that was also taken in Pakistan;

2

correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

That was before you moved to the United States?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Now, I want to talk about your time in the United States.

7

In 1999, you began living in the United States; correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

And you were living, I think as you said, with Mr. Zazi?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

In his home?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And he sent you to school; correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

And you slept -- you shared a room with Tariq and

16

Najibullah?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And Mr. Zazi bought you clothes?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And he bought you food?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And I would like to show you now what's been marked as

23

Defendant's Exhibit 6.

24

Your Honor, for the witness?

25

THE COURT:

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

Go right ahead.

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 187 of 280 PageID #: 1262
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

405

1

Q

That's another photograph with you in the front; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And Mr. Zazi in the middle?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And Najibullah in the back?

6

A

Yes.

7
8

MS. HARRIS:

Move to introduce Defendant's Exhibit

MS. MARRUS:

No objection.

6.

9
10

THE COURT:

Received.

11

(So marked.)

12

Q

That picture is a picture of you in New York; correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Is that at the house where you lived with Mr. Zazi?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

Now, while you were in New York, you said you went to

17

religious preaches; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

You went to the same religious school that Tariq went to?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And the same religious school that Najibullah went to;

22

correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And I want to talk a little bit about Colorado?

25

When you came back from Pakistan, you moved to

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 188 of 280 PageID #: 1263
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

Colorado with Mr. Zazi; correct.

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And at the house in Colorado, you shared a room with

4

Najibullah; correct?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

I would like to show you what's been marked as

7

Defendant's Exhibit 5.

8

correct?

9

A

That's a picture of Sultan Bibi;

Yes.

10
11

406

MS. HARRIS:

Your Honor, I move for the introduction

of Defendant's Exhibit 5.

12

MS. MARRUS:

Your Honor, I would request a

13

clarification as to the other.

14

THE COURT:

Yes.

15

Q

And the other children in that photograph are Osman;

16

correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And -- I'm sorry for my pronunciation -- Khadija?

19

A

Yes.

20

MS. HARRIS:

Your Honor, I move for the admission.

21

MS. MARRUS:

No objection.

22

THE COURT:

23

(So marked.)

24

Q

25

correct?

Received.

That's also a picture from here in the United States;

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 189 of 280 PageID #: 1264
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

A

Yes.

2

Q

They were born while you were living in the United

3

States; correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

I would also like to show the witness Defendant's

6

Exhibit 7.

7

correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

That picture is taken in Colorado; correct?

10

A

I don't know.

11
12

407

That's another picture of Osman and Khadija;

MS. HARRIS:

Your Honor, I move for the admission of

Defendant's Exhibit 7.

13

MS. MARRUS:

14

THE COURT:

15

Received.

16

(So marked.)

17

Q

18

correct?

19

A

20

Relevance, your Honor.
Overruled.

It's fair to say that this is a more recent picture;

What?
THE COURT:

Than?

21

Q

This is a more recent picture than Defendant's Exhibit 5?

22

A

They just took it.

23

Q

I'm asking --

24
25

THE COURT:

Is she older here than the other

picture, when she's a lot younger?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 190 of 280 PageID #: 1265
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

THE WITNESS:

408

Yes.

2

Q

This is close to the age that they are now; correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Now, you don't know how to use computers very well;

5

correct?

6

A

That's true.

7

Q

And, Mr. Zazi, Wali didn't have his own computer;

8

correct?

9

A

Not him, yes.

10

Q

I'm sorry?

11

A

Not him.

12

Q

He doesn't really know, Mr. Zazi, Mohammed Wali Zazi, he

13

doesn't really know how to use a computer; correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

You talked a little bit with the government lawyer about

16

the different cars that you have at the house.

17

of 2009, you were doing deliveries for Jason's Deli; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

You needed to drive to make those deliveries; correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And so, you were using, I believe it was, a Nissan; is

22

that correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And Najibullah had a van that he used for his job;

25

correct?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

In September

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 191 of 280 PageID #: 1266
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

409

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And Mohammed Wali Zazi used the Chevy Suburban; correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

It was an older model; is that right?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

He used it to drive the kids to school?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

And you also discussed that at the time period, September

9

2009, Mr. Zazi was trying to start his own shuttle business;

I don't know what year it was.

10

is that correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

I want to talk to you about what Zaher Akbar told

13

Mohammed Wali Zazi.

14

been received from Wais; correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

That's how you know the gentleman -- correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

19

A

Ahmad Wais.

20

Q

You don't know him as Afzali; correct?

21

A

I didn't know him up to now.

22

Q

Since that time period, you have learned that his name is

23

Afzali; correct?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

At the time in September 2009, you did not know that he

You talked about a phone call that had

-- by the name of Wais?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 192 of 280 PageID #: 1267
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

410

1

went by the name Afzali; correct?

2

A

Correct.

3

Q

Throughout your testimony in this case, you referred to

4

Mr. Mohammed Wali Zazi as "Wali"; correct?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

And Wali, it's common in the Pashto language to refer to

7

someone by their middle name; correct?

8

A

9

have oldest people, my uncles or aunt, we don't call them by

Actually, no.

10

name.

11

call him "Daddy."

12

Some people, like if we are young and we

We call them by nickname.

You can call father, like

It was like a respect name.

(Continued on next page.)

13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 193 of 280 PageID #: 1268
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

411

1

BY MS. HARRIS:

2

Q

3

respectful name, correct?

4

A

Everybody got different names for respect.

5

Q

But throughout your direct testimony you referred to Mr.

6

Zazi as Wali; correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

And you didn't refer to him as Mohammed; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

That would not be the custom; correct?

11

A

I don't know.

12

Q

Now, you talked about a time when Wali came -- Mr. Zazi

13

came back to the house after he had had a phone call with

14

Wais?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

Do you recall that?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And he told you that he had learned that the FBI was

19

looking for Najibullah; correct?

20

A

No.

21

Q

He learned that the FBI was interested in Najibullah;

22

correct?

23

A

I don't know.

24

Q

And he began to ask you questions; correct?

25

A

Questions?

That is the name you would use for your elders, a

He said that FBI show Ahmad Wais four pictures.

BHS

No.

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 194 of 280 PageID #: 1269
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

412

1

Q

Well, he wanted to know what was going on; correct?

2

A

I have no idea.

3

Q

He didn't know why the FBI was looking for Najibullah,

4

did he?

5

MS. MARRUS:

Objection.

6

THE COURT:

Overruled.

7

A

8

but --

9

Q

10

Asked and answered.

I don't know about Wali, what he was thinking inside,

Well, he said to you that he thought that perhaps they

were following them because they were Muslims, correct?

11

MS. MARRUS:

Objection.

12

THE COURT:

Come up.

13

(Continued next page.)

Don't answer.

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 195 of 280 PageID #: 1270
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

(Sidebar.)

2

THE COURT:

3

MS. MARRUS:

4

What is your objection?
The witness has testified that they

didn't have a conversation about this.

5

THE COURT:

6

MS. MARRUS:

7

413

Suppose he says yes?
What is the basis in the record to ask

that question?

8

THE COURT:

Overruled.

9

(Continued next page.)

10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 196 of 280 PageID #: 1271
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

(Open court.)

2

THE COURT:

414

Pose it again, please.

3

BY MS. HARRIS:

4

Q

5

following him because you were Muslims; correct?

6

A

I don't know.

7

Q

Now, at some point Mr. Zazi and you, according to you,

8

went to the auto body shop; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

You say that you heard Zaheer tell Wali that Naqib had

11

told him that Najibullah was going to do a suicide mission;

12

correct?

13

A

Suicide mission?

14

Q

He would commit suicide?

15

A

Yes, he was going to kill his self.

16

Q

You did not hear -- withdrawn.

17

Mr. Zazi got very upset; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

He was shocked?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And he was angry?

22

A

Yes, at Naqib.

23

Q

At Naqib because Naqib had kept him in the dark; correct?

24

A

Kept in the dark?

25

Q

Naqib had not told Mr. Zazi directly, correct?

He said to you that he thought perhaps they were

BHS

No.

After this conversation

I don't know.

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 197 of 280 PageID #: 1272
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

415

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

Naqib had not told Mr. Zazi earlier; correct?

3

A

Yes.

4
5

THE COURT:

Would now be a good time for a break,

Miss Harris?

6

MS. HARRIS:

It would.

7

THE COURT:

Let's take our afternoon break.

8

discuss the case, ladies and gentlemen.

9

Don't

All rise.

(Jury leaves. .)

10

THE COURT:

We will resume in ten minutes.

11

(Recess.)

12

(Open court.)

13

THE COURT:

14

(Witness resumes.)

15

THE COURT:

16

(Jury present.)

17

THE COURT:

18

MS. HARRIS:

May I proceed?

19

THE COURT:

Yes.

20

MS. HARRIS:

Thank you, your Honor.

Please be seated.

Bring in the jury, please.

Please be seated everyone.

21

BY MS. HARRIS:

22

Q

23

you had said you had been interviewed many, many times by the

24

government; correct?

25

A

When you were being questioned by the government lawyer

Yes.

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 198 of 280 PageID #: 1273
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

416

1

Q

And you said, when the government lawyer asked you, you

2

said that you haven't told about Mr. Zazi before because you

3

didn't want to create any trouble; correct?

4

A

5

trouble.

6

Q

7

destruction of evidence, you told about Sultan Bibi destroyed

8

the evidence, correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

You told about Rabia destroyed the evidence; correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

But you don't want them to be in trouble, do you?

13

A

They are women, and Rabia wants to destroy from her

14

house.

15

Sultan Bibi, she's a mother and everybody understand that, you

16

know, a mother, anytime, with anything a mother will do

17

anything, a mother is always a mother.

18

Q

19

role in the destruction of evidence; correct?

20

A

I don't understand.

21

Q

You told them that the destruction of evidence had

22

happened at Naqib's house, correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

That Naqib was there; correct?

25

A

Yes.

I just want to defend him.

Right.

I didn't want him to get in

The first time you told the government about the

She don't want no trouble for maybe her husband and

You were willing to tell the government's about Naqib's

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 199 of 280 PageID #: 1274
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

417

1

Q

That Naqib had asked them to come over, correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

I want to talk to you a little bit about the time when

4

you were in junior high school.

5

school in Queens; correct?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

And then you attended a few months of Flushing High

8

School, correct?

9

A

No, I went to junior high school for three years.

10

Q

And then afterwards you went to high school for a few

11

months; correct?

12

A

13

over there.

14

Q

You went back to Pakistan in the fall of 2003; correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

In the middle of the school year; correct?

17

A

I was drop out.

18

Q

You didn't do too well in school; correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

You skipped a lot of classes?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

You began using marijuana in junior high school; correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And you started around the age of 12?

25

A

Twelve?

Few months?

You went to junior high

I don't think so.

I finished tenth grade

It's like a year.

I don't know because I came to United States.

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

I

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 200 of 280 PageID #: 1275
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

418

1

didn't start right away.

2

Q

And you were smoking pretty much every day; correct?

3

A

First time when I smoke, start smoking I didn't smoke it

4

every day.

5

Q

6

correct?

7

A

Most days.

8

Q

And you also eventually started using alcohol as well;

9

correct?

After a little bit of time you started smoking every day,

Not every day.

10

A

Second time when I came back from overseas.

11

Q

And you got in a lot of fights?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Now, during this time Mr. Zazi was driving a yellow cab;

14

correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And he was working about six days per week?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And he would leave in the morning around 11 a.m.?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Come home around midnight?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And he would leave money for expenses; correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Whatever was extra was saved; correct?

25

A

Yes.

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 201 of 280 PageID #: 1276
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

419

1

Q

And sometimes the family would use an old salt container;

2

correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

To put the cash in?

5

A

Salt and baby milk formula container.

6

Q

And that's where the household money would be saved;

7

correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Ten dollars here?

10

A

Ten dollars here?

11

Q

Sometimes he would put $10 in?

12

A

Sometimes it used to be a lot of money.

13

Q

It would add up over the week; correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

And drugs cost money; correct?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

And you stole from the family; correct?

18

A

A couple of times.

19

Q

And on one occasion you stole a whole salt container;

20

correct?

21

A

A thousand dollars.

22

Q

You also stole money from Mr. Zazi's bag; correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And when you were asked by the family whether you had

25

taken the money, you lied to them; correct?

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 202 of 280 PageID #: 1277
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

420

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And when they asked you why you would take the money, you

3

lied to them; correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

You didn't tell them that you were using drugs?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

You told them you needed the money for chicken; correct?

8

A

I don't remember that.

9

caught me later on, like two years later they found -- caught

But they found out later on, they

10

me stealing money.

11

Q

And --

12

A

First I was stealing like four quarters, 6 quarters and

13

then -- just for friends.

They used to be a lot of friends

14

used to give me for free.

In the neighborhood where I lived

15

it was all drug addicts and everybody was smoking weed, girls,

16

boys, so sometimes, you know, I didn't need no money for that.

17

Q

Sometimes you did need money, right?

18

A

Sometime I did, but quarters, quarters, quarters, collect

19

it up.

20

time.

21

Q

Well, you took whatever you could get; fair to say?

22

A

I could took all the money but I didn't took it, I just

23

took quarters.

24

Q

Now, you said eventually you got caught; correct?

25

A

Yes.

But I wasn't that addicted to it until I came second

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 203 of 280 PageID #: 1278
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

421

1

Q

And you kept getting in trouble, right?

2

A

In school, outside, yes.

3

Q

And at home, right?

4

A

Getting trouble outside.

5

inside home.

6

Q

And you were bringing the outside trouble in; correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

And eventually Mr. Zazi decided you had to be sent back

9

to Pakistan; correct?
First time -- no.

On the outside trouble come

10

A

I became crazy.

I was like I want to

11

go back overseas and I went to Rabia's house, stayed there for

12

two months in her house and then he apply for a travel

13

document for me because I was like I want to go back overseas.

14

Q

15

correct?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

And sometimes you would run away to her house, correct?

18

A

All the time?

19

Q

And Mr. Zazi wanted you to stop getting in trouble;

20

correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And get you away from drugs; correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

He wanted you to stay in school?

25

A

He wanted me to stay school, yes.

Now, you say you went to Rabia's house.

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

You love Rabia,

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 204 of 280 PageID #: 1279
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

422

1

Q

To get a job; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

out.

4

Q

5

back to Pakistan; correct?

6

A

7

behaving.

8

reason and I was bored of this country, I'm like what this

9

country give me, just drugs and beating up every day, not

To do something, engineer first, but then I dropped

When that wasn't working out, he agreed you should go

Actually, I decide to go back overseas because I wasn't
I was getting jumped every day and beat up for no

10

behaving in school, so I want to go back overseas and see my

11

parents.

12

Q

13

Pakistan you continued to smoke marijuana, correct?

14

A

Hashish.

15

Q

Hashish?

16

A

But not -- I smoked first time when I went, I smoked it

17

like couple of times.

18

Q

19

about the first time that you went, we're talking about the

20

fall of 2003; correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And you went back to Pakistan you stayed approximately

23

four months, correct, or maybe seven months?

24

A

No.

25

Q

And then you came back to the United States?

Let's talk about your time then back in Pakistan.

After that I didn't smoke.

Let's talk about that a for a second.

When you talk

Five months and 24 days.

BHS

In

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 205 of 280 PageID #: 1280
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

423

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And shortly thereafter you went back again to Pakistan;

3

correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And then you stayed for five years; correct?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

And I'm talking about the five-year period when you were

8

in Pakistan.

9

correct?

You were smoking during that time period;

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And drugs are much cheaper in Pakistan; correct?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

You can get a baseball size of hashish for $5?

14

A

Baseball -- ball?

15

Q

Baseball size.

16

A

Oh, if you have friends, you can get it for free.

17

Q

And you didn't have a job in Pakistan; correct?

18

A

No.

19

Q

You weren't going to school?

20

A

No.

21

Q

You would just hang out all day mostly, correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Smoke?

24

A

Smoke.

25

Q

Use pharmaceuticals?

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 206 of 280 PageID #: 1281
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

424

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

Cocaine?

3

A

No.

4

Q

You would drink alcohol?

5

A

I drank maybe 4, 5 time.

6

Q

Now, I want to talk to you about your lies in the grand

7

jury.

8

correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And, in fact, he was in Colorado; correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

And you came to New York?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And you were given a lawyer when you came to the grand

15

jury; correct?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

And that lawyer explained to you your rights; correct?

18

A

He explain them, but I didn't understand.

19

When you lied in the grand jury, Mr. Zazi wasn't there,

(Continued next page)

20
21
22
23
24
25

BHS

OCR

CM

CRR

CSR

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 207 of 280 PageID #: 1282
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

425

1

BY MS. HARRIS:

2

Q

3

government lawyers was there; correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And they also explained your rights; correct?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

They told you that if you lie, it could be a crime;

8

correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And they told you that you don't have to answer questions

11

if answering them would hurt you; correct?

12

A

I remember everything, whatever he said.

13

Q

And you took an oath -- correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

An oath to tell the truth?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Much like the oath you took here today?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

But you told a lot of lies; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

You told the grand jury that you had not hung out with

24

Najibullah in Pakistan; correct?

25

A

And then when you went into the grand jury, one of the

-- in the grand jury?

I don't know.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 208 of 280 PageID #: 1283
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

426

1

Q

In fact, you did associate with him; correct?

2

A

When he came over?

3

Q

When Najibullah came to Pakistan, you did spend time with

4

him; correct?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

You said in the grand jury you had never met anyone

7

associated with the Taliban or Al-Qaeda?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

That was a lie?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

In fact, you have met people associated with Al-Qaeda?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

You also lied and said you never knew anyone who had

14

attended the training camp?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

But you in fact had known that Najibullah had attended

17

the training camp; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And his two friends.

20

the government lawyer.

21

you had ever carried a gun?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

All those lies, those lies protected you; correct?

24

A

Me and my family.

25

Q

You were the one who put Najibullah in touch with

When he came to Pakistan, you mean?

I was hanging around outside all the time.

And his two friends.
You talked about this a bit with

But you also lied about whether or not

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 209 of 280 PageID #: 1284
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

427

1

Al-Qaeda; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

You wanted to hide the truth about that; correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Now, I want to talk to you about the time period after

6

Najibullah got arrested.

7

correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

A lot of times; fair to say?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

It's pretty stressful; right?

12

A

It was, but it was fun.

13

Q

And there comes a time when you pick up the phone and you

14

call one of those agents; correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

You decided that you wanted to talk about a job with the

17

government; correct?

18

A

19

were out of jobs.

20

Q

And you couldn't take it anymore?

21

A

I could, because it will be fun for me just to drive

22

around and smoking for free.

23

the future and overseas, my family, and when somebody need to

24

work in the house, and all of us were out of a job and you

25

can't live.

You were questioned by agents;

Government, or any job, because we were, all of us, we

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

But then I was thinking about

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 210 of 280 PageID #: 1285
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

Q

I'm sorry?

2

A

You can't live without money in the world.

3

Q

You needed money?

4

A

To work and support families.

5

Q

You decided to call agent Mike Neener?

6

A

Correct.

7

MS. HARRIS:

428

Your Honor, with the previous agreement

8

with the government, I'm going to play the November 20 phone

9

call.

10

THE COURT:

11

MR. HARRIS:

12

Okay.
And the accompanying transcript will be

published to the jury simultaneously.

13

THE COURT:

All right.

14

Are we able to do that?

15

THE CLERK:

16

(Tape plays.)

17

(Tape stops.)

Yes, your Honor.

18

Q

Just to be clear, Mike Neener is an agent with the FBI;

19

correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And the job that you are talking about is a job with the

22

government; correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Because you had heard that the government can give you

25

money; correct?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 211 of 280 PageID #: 1286
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

429

1

A

No.

2

Q

Well, isn't it true that you had heard from Zaher Akbar

3

that you can get money by giving information to the

4

government; correct?

5

A

6

We went to the library.

7

house.

8

to go overseas in Afghanistan, being a translator overseas.

9

And then I try to went there, and he give a cell phone which I

No.

This phone call I made, Tariq was there, my cousin.
Before that, we went to Zaher's

He came from some sort of a training that he was going

10

never used it, and his wife said, Zaher wants his phone back,

11

and me and Tariq went to Zaher's house and give him the cell

12

phone back.

13

the job, and he said you could get -- it's not with the

14

government, it's like a translator overseas with the military.

15

And I told him, What do you need for that?

16

And he said, You need to be a citizen.

17

But I told him, I'm not a citizen and I have only

18

green card.

19

know.

20

And he came from the training, and I asked about

He said, Well, you could do that, too.

You never

And then after that, we went to the library, and it

21

was the same day or different day, I went to the library, me

22

and Tariq went to the library, and I told Tariq to look for

23

that website that people -- Afghani website that people, they

24

have interview with you on the phone, then they ask you a

25

couple of questions, if you speak their language, and they

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 212 of 280 PageID #: 1287
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

430

1

will accept you, and they will ask for your documents to send

2

it over there and they will have you a call.

3

When I went to the library and check the website,

4

they said, You need to be a citizen.

And then I had no other

5

jobs, and Zaher -- plus, I heard from somebody that government

6

know about me a lot.

7

just come over there and meet me to tell him about the secret.

8

Q

So, I called Mike.

So, at the time,

Right?

9

So, you did in fact meet with Mike Neener that day.

10

A

With Jason, too.

Mike and Jason.

11

Q

You also, at that meeting, told them what you were --

12

what kind of job you were hoping to get; correct?

13

A

I have no idea.

14

Q

You told them that you had heard that Zaher was working

15

for the FBI, and you wanted to know if you could get a similar

16

deal; correct?

17

A

18

Zaher.

19

Q

20

correct?

21

A

22

trick or something like that, and he came to our house one day

23

with his wife and he brought a gift and he said, The FBI sent

24

us here.

25

something, and they never talked loud until they wrote a

I don't know if I said that.

But I was suspicious about

You thought that he was a paid informant for the FBI;

Yes, because a couple of times, he used some kind of like

And they have a tape-recorder under the shirt or

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 213 of 280 PageID #: 1288
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

431

1

letter to, I don't know, Wali, because Sultan Bibi don't know

2

how to read our language.

3
4

Zaher said, The FBI sent me here.

Be careful,

whatever you said.

5

When I came home later on and I find out and I found

6

out why did the FBI send only you, nobody else, so I got

7

suspicious.

8

took them to some sort of a desert and talked to them about

9

us, to tell us something or to find out about us.

10

After that one day, Zaher was telling us that FBI

I was like, He might be working.

Why he's taking

11

you two times and not us?

12

Q

13

might get a good deal with the government; correct?

14

A

15

and get myself out of trouble.

16

Q

17

correct?

18

A

19

house is bigger than everywhere in Colorado.

20

five-bedroom house and a big basement.

21

Q

22

correct?

23

A

No.

24

Q

I'm going to show you -- for the witness only -- a

25

document to see if this refreshes your recollection.

Let's cut to the chase here.

You were hoping that you

I was going to think I was going to tell them everything

You were hoping that you would get a place to live;

I have a place to live.

I have a big house.

My aunt's

She had a

I can stay there.

You were hoping to get some money out of the FBI;

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

I want

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 214 of 280 PageID #: 1289
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

to draw your attention to where my finger is.

2

THE COURT:

3

MS. HARRIS:

4

Q

5

recollection.

Do you want him to read it to himself?
Yes.

Read that to yourself and see if that refreshes your

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

(Pause.)

9

432

A

Can you read English okay?
Yes.

Yes.

10

THE COURT:

Pose the question again, please.

11

Q

Does that refresh your recollection that you wanted the

12

FBI to give you money?

13

A

14

to find out if Zaher is working for FBI and he came to our

15

house.

16

us, so I was like, Zaher is really working for FBI, then, if

17

they offer me a job.

18

Q

19

your chances might be better?

20

A

21

then I was going to I think that he's a real snitcher.

22

Q

You had called the FBI this day; correct?

23

A

Yes, I did.

24

Q

You made a call?

25

A

Yes.

No.

I was asking the FBI questions, because I was going

So, that means if they say, Yes, you could work for

So, if Zaher was getting paid by the FBI, you thought

No.

I was going to find out, if he's a real FBI agent,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 215 of 280 PageID #: 1290
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

433

1

Q

On that call, you had asked about a, quote

2

unquote, "job"?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

And you needed to go somewhere; correct?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

That you were bored?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

You just needed to do something?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And you were hoping that they would help you do

11

something; correct?

12

A

13

or arrested.

14

could have drove.

15

job over there, drive a taxi.

16

not under the job list.

17

who is a real snitcher.

18

Q

19

to call the FBI; correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And isn't it true that you also, that same day, told the

22

FBI agents that you wanted to be free to live your life;

23

correct?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

You wanted to be free to drink; correct?

No, because I was free.

I wasn't not under investigation

I couldn't fly, but I could take a train.

I

I would have go to New York, have a better
I was under the fly list, but

The thing is, I was going to find out

So, you were free to do all those things, but you chose

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 216 of 280 PageID #: 1291
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

434

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

You wanted to be free to smoke marijuana; correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

And have fun?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

This was your idea, to call the FBI; correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

It wasn't Mr. Zazi's idea?

9

A

No.

10

Q

He didn't even know that you had called the FBI; correct?

11

A

No.

12

Q

You went and talked to the agents by yourself; correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And when you met with the agents, you lied; correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

You told the agents about Najibullah going to Waziristan?

17

A

Later on.

18

Q

Well, you certainly didn't tell the agents that you had

19

helped Najibullah go to Waziristan; correct?

20

A

Up to the time, yes.

21

Q

In fact, you blamed it on someone else; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

In fact, you had been drinking alcohol when you called

24

the FBI; correct?

25

A

No, because I was with Tariq, and I couldn't drink in

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 217 of 280 PageID #: 1292
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

435

1

front of him.

2

Q

3

FBI; correct?

4

A

A day before.

5

Q

I'm sorry?

6

A

A day before.

7

Q

Well, during the interview with the FBI agents, they in

8

fact asked you whether you had been drinking; correct?

9

A

I don't remember.

10

Q

Let me show you a document that might help you refresh

11

your recollection.

But you had snuck some alcohol before you met with the

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. HARRIS:

14

Q

THE COURT:

Point out what you would like him to

read to himself, please.

17
18

I'm sorry.

Government's Exhibit 3500-AZ-4, the last page.

15
16

Just give the identification number.

Just read it to yourself, and let us know when you
are done.

19

(Pause.)

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Does that refresh your recollection?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

You in fact had been drinking; correct?

24

A

No.

25

Q

They did ask you about drinking alcohol; correct?

I drink the day before.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

I lied to them.

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 218 of 280 PageID #: 1293
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

436

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And you told them that you had been?

3

A

I told them I did drink.

4

Q

Now, you met with the agents again a couple of days

5

later; correct?

6

A

I met a lot of times, but I don't know which day.

7

Q

It's fair to say that this phone call started a lot of

8

meetings with the agents; correct?

9

A

I think so.

10

Q

And you met with them a few days later; correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

And again, that meeting was not Mr. Zazi's idea?

13

A

None of the calls -- none the meetings was nobody's idea.

14

It was only me.

15

Q

He didn't even know about the meetings?

16

A

Nobody knows.

17

Q

He didn't tell you what to say in those meetings?

18

A

If he didn't knew it, how was he going to tell me what to

19

say?

20

THE COURT:

21

He didn't know; correct?

22

Don't do that.

He didn't tell you what to

say; correct?

23

THE WITNESS:

24

THE COURT:

25

Don't do that.

Yes.

Just answer the questions.

Don't ask

questions back.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 219 of 280 PageID #: 1294
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

437

1

Q

And you chose to lie again; correct?

2

A

To who?

3

Q

Is it fair to say that you lied repeatedly to the FBI

4

agents; correct?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Not just once?

7

A

No.

8

Q

Not just on November 20?

9

A

I don't remember the dates.

10

Q

You lied again on November 25, 2009?

11

November 26, 2009?

12

THE COURT:
Yes.

You lied again on

You have to answer out loud.

13

A

I don't know the dates, but I lied.

14

and I lied to them a lot, too.

15

Q

And you lied about all sorts of things; correct?

16

A

Possible.

17

Q

You lied about what you did in Pakistan?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And you also made up lies that you thought would make

20

yourself look good; correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Like telling them that you have been an informant for the

23

NYPD?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

That you had ratted out other drug dealers to eliminate

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

I met a lot,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 220 of 280 PageID #: 1295
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

438

1

competition?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

That was a lie?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

You thought it made you look tough?

6

A

No.

7

Q

I think what you said is, you thought it would give you

8

credit; right?

9

A

Credit, yes.

10

Q

Credit, or credibility?

11

A

Make them like pay attention.

12

Q

They were not paying attention to you very well, were

13

they?

14

A

They were.

15

Q

Because you wanted to get a good deal from them; correct?

16

A

I didn't know about the deal that time.

17

Q

Now, fair to say you kept on meeting with them in

18

December; correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

December 2?

21

A

I don't remember the dates.

22

Q

Every couple of days, you met with them; correct?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And not in any of these meetings did you admit that you

25

introduced Najibullah to Al-Qaeda; correct?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 221 of 280 PageID #: 1296
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

439

1

A

Yes.

In September, yes.

2

Q

December?

3

A

December.

4

Q

And you only did that after at least five or six or seven

5

meetings; correct?

6

A

I don't remember the numbers.

7

Q

When you did admit it, you only did it because the agents

8

started telling you that you were in trouble; correct?

9

A

I don't know.

10

Q

And that if you didn't tell them what was going on, you

11

would go to jail; correct?

12

A

I have no idea.

13

Q

And you wouldn't get any deals; correct?

14

A

We didn't talk about no deals until we came to New York,

15

and there was no deals.

16

Q

17

you had done in Pakistan, they put you up in a hotel; correct?

18

A

19

out of there, because if you guys keep taking me outside,

20

Naqib is going to think, Why are they taking you outside all

21

the time?

22

It's going to be hard for me to talk to you guys.

23

better to put me somewhere else, so we could talk.

24

Q

They didn't put you in jail?

25

A

Yes, because I didn't plead guilty.

I don't know.

Let me ask you this:

No.

The day after you told them what

I told them I don't want to -- I just want to get

They are going to be asking a lot of questions.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

It would be

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 222 of 280 PageID #: 1297
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

Q

2

Al-Qaeda; correct?

3

A

440

You just told them that you had introduced Najibullah to

Not there, not in Colorado.

4

MR. HARRIS:

5

THE COURT:

6

(Pause.)

7

Q

8

3500-AZ-11.

And I don't know.

I forgot.

May I have a moment, your Honor?
Yes, you may.

Let me show you page four of Government's Exhibit

9

Just for the witness, your Honor.

10

Drawing your attention to the bottom paragraph.

11

THE COURT:

Center it and focus in a little bit

12

more.

13

Q

14

done with that section.

I can show you page one of the same exhibit, if you are

15

THE COURT:

16

(Pause.)

Tell us when you're done, please.

17

A

Yes.

I remember.

18

Q

So, that's the first time that you told the agents that

19

you had arranged for the training in Waziristan; correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Right.

22

wrong; correct?

23

A

Let me read.

24

Q

You told them that you were the one who had arranged for

25

Adis, Zarein and Najibullah to be trained in Waziristan?

But I lied there, too.
At least you said that you had done something

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 223 of 280 PageID #: 1298
A. Zazi - cross - Harris

441

1

A

Yes, through somebody else.

2

Q

That meeting took place in Denver; correct?

3

A

I don't know.

4

Q

Let me show you page one of the same Exhibit, 3500-AZ-11.

5

Drawing your attention to the top paragraph?

6

(Pause.)

7

A

I don't understand the writing.

8

Q

Does that refresh your recollection that this meeting had

9

taken place in a Denver field office the FBI?

10

A

I don't even understand what was wrote there.

11

THE COURT:

Don't worry about that.

You've read it.

12

Do you now have a recollection that the meeting occurred in

13

Denver?

14

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

15

Q

And that meeting occurred on December 10, 2009; correct?

16

A

I have no idea.

17

Q

And the next day, you were put in a hotel; correct?

18

A

I don't know what date it was when I was put in a hotel,

19

but I think it was December.

20

Q

It was December and it was in Colorado; correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

For about a week; correct?

23

A

A week, yes.

24

Q

Until you were brought to New York?

25

A

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 224 of 280 PageID #: 1299
A. Zazi - cross - Harris
1

Q

2

occasions, they would buy you food; correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Pizza?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Sprite?

7

A

I don't know.

8

what I ate.

9

442

And when you met with the agents on these multiple

I don't know what Sprite is.

I forgot

(Continued on next page.)

10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 225 of 280 PageID #: 1300
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris
1

BY MS. HARRIS:

2

Q

3

you made up some stories about chemicals; correct?

4

A

In Denver?

5

Q

Correct?

6

A

About what chemicals?

7

Q

You talked about this on direct with the government

8

attorney.

9

had followed the juga to Walmart; correct?

443

And on one occasion when you went to the FBI in Denver,

You said that you had lied and told them that you

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

You lied and told the agents that you had actually seen

12

the chemicals in the van, correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And you lied and said that you had actually seen the

15

chemicals at Naqib's house before September 2009; correct?

16

A

I might, but I don't remember.

17

Q

You were telling all these lies because you thought it

18

would make you more valuable to the FBI; correct?

19

A

No.

20

Q

Sorry?

21

A

I couldn't think something else.

22

Q

You're making up whatever came into your head, correct?

23

A

At that time.

24

Q

When you finished these stories on December 11th, you

25

demanded to see the big boss of the FBI; correct?

I was just lying because I couldn't think no more.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 226 of 280 PageID #: 1301
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

444

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

The FBI agent in chief, correct?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

To see if he would believe you, correct?

5

A

Actually, when I saw him I was like this, how about if I

6

give these people all the information and I didn't know about

7

the lawyer and I'm like these people bring me in the media and

8

everything -- I'll be everything responsible for everything

9

happening.

So that's why I didn't trust the little guys so I

10

went to the boss.

11

Q

12

correct?

13

A

I would make sure that I was safe.

14

Q

I want to talk about your cooperation agreement.

15

look at the last page.

You wanted to make sure that you would get a good deal,

16

THE COURT:

17

MS. HARRIS:

18

(Pause.)

Take a

You want the jury to see this too?
Yes.

19

Q

That is dated January 8, 2010; correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

That's the date you signed this agreement, correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And that is the same day that you pled guilty?

24

A

What?

25

know when I pled guilty, but I remember I think it was

I think I plead guilty on January 5th.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

I don't

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 227 of 280 PageID #: 1302
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

445

1

January 5th.

2

Q

3

admitted into evidence, this document is an agreement between

4

you and the United States Attorney's office; correct?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

And before signing it you read it carefully, right?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

And you discussed it with your lawyer?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Make sure that you understood all of the provisions;

11

correct?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And in this agreement you have certain obligations;

14

correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And the government has certain obligations, correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Well, let's talk about it in detail.

19

debriefed; correct?

20

A

About what?

21

Q

You agreed to meet with them; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Whenever they want, correct?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

And to answer all of their questions; correct?

This document, Government Exhibit -- what has been

I don't know.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

You've agreed to be

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 228 of 280 PageID #: 1303
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

446

1

A

Yes, truthfully.

2

Q

And to tell them about all the criminal activity that you

3

are aware of; correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Give them any documents?

6

A

I had no documents on me.

7

Q

To testify at any proceedings?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Your testimony here today, that is part of your deal;

10

correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

And if you refuse to testify the government could rip up

13

your agreement; correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

And you could lose all the benefits contained in it?

16

A

Yes, but I don't know if -- I don't know what kind of

17

benefit I have because it's up to the judge, not up to me.

18

Q

19

government that if you did your job they would write you a

20

letter; correct?

21

A

To the judge.

22

Q

At your sentencing; correct?

23

A

It's up to the judge sentence me.

24

Q

The government --

25

A

Yes.

Well, let's talk about that.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

You were promised by the

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 229 of 280 PageID #: 1304
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

447

1

Q

And they would tell the judge about all the meetings that

2

you had with them; correct?

3

A

I don't know.

4

Q

And they would tell the judge about your testimony;

5

correct?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

And you only get that letter if you do everything the

8

government wants you to do; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And you only get that letter if you give them substantial

11

assistance in their investigation; correct?

12

A

I don't know.

13

Q

Well, fair to say that you have to help them in their

14

other cases; correct?

15

A

How am I going to help them?

16

Q

This letter is supposed to help the judge decide what

17

sentence to give you; correct?

18

A

They don't give to it me.

19

Q

I'm sorry.

20

lawyer; correct?

21

A

Yes, my attorney.

22

Q

And you reviewed the paragraphs of the cooperation

23

agreement; correct?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

And you read paragraph six of the cooperation agreement,

I think so.

It's to say the truth.

They give it to the judge.

You discussed this agreement with your

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 230 of 280 PageID #: 1305
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris
1

correct?

2
3

448

Tell me when you want me to turn the page.
(Pause.)

A

I don't understand, can you explain it to me?

4

THE COURT:

No.

She asks the questions.

5

Go ahead, ask another one.

6

Q

Your hope is that the judge is going to reward you for

7

your cooperation; correct?

8

A

No.

9

Q

I'm sorry?

10

A

I hope my judge give me nothing, no sentence.

11

Q

But your hoping for no time, right?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

You don't want to go to jail for 30 years?

14

A

No.

15

Q

And the lawyer told you that is a possibility; correct?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Let's talk about what you might be facing.

18

obstruction charge you could go to jail for up to 20 years;

19

correct?

20

A

What is obstruction?

21

Q

For destroying the evidence.

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And for helping Najibullah get into Pakistan you could go

24

to jail for up to ten years?

25

A

I just hope that my judge give me nothing.

For the

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 231 of 280 PageID #: 1306
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris
1

Q

You face a total of 30 years altogether?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

With the help of the government there is no minimum;

4

correct?

5

A

I don't know what is their law.

6

Q

Now, the cooperation agreement also promises that you

7

won't be charged for any other crimes; correct?

8

A

I don't know.

9

Q

Today in court under oath you have told the jury that

449

10

Mr. Mohammed Wali Zazi told you to go destroy the evidence,

11

correct?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And you were together in the same room with him when you

14

had that conversation, correct?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And that he told you to make the appointment and to make

17

the medicine call; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Now, since the beginning of your cooperation,

20

November 20, 2009, you probably met with the agents at least

21

40 times, correct?

And Sultan Bibi.

22

MS. MARRUS:

Can she clarify cooperation?

23

THE COURT:

Overruled.

24

A

I don't know the specific number, but it was a lot.

25

Q

A lot of times.

And the first time that you told the

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 232 of 280 PageID #: 1307
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

450

1

United States government that Mr. Zazi was involved in the

2

destruction of evidence was in June of 2011; correct?

3

A

You mean 2011?

4

Q

Just a month ago.

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

That was the very first time that you said anything about

7

Mr. Zazi being involved in the destruction of evidence?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

And that meeting was with Miss Marrus here; correct?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And Agent Copeland; correct?

12

A

I think so.

13

Q

Another FBI agent, correct?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

And they met with you to discuss this case; correct?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

And that was the first time that you had net with Miss

18

Marrus; correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And they told you that they might need you to testify

21

against Mr. Zazi; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And you wanted to make them happy; correct?

24

A

No.

25

Q

They told you they had to -- that you had to testify to

I don't know the name.

First I think so, yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 233 of 280 PageID #: 1308
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

451

1

keep your cooperation agreement; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And that's the day, first day that you said that Mr. Zazi

4

had anything to do with the destruction of evidence?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

And on that day in June 2011, you didn't say anything

7

about having a conversation with Mr. Zazi after you came back

8

from destroying the evidence; correct?

9

A

Which day and which evidence?

10

Q

Under oath here today you told the jury that when you

11

came back from Naqib's house that you had a conversation with

12

Mr. Zazi and that you told him the job is done?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

In June, 2011 you did not tell Miss Marrus about that

15

conversation; correct?

16

A

17

but I don't know, I don't remember, but I think so I told

18

them.

19

Q

20

destruction of evidence; correct?

21

A

I said two things.

22

Q

Remember meeting with the prosecutors and agents in New

23

York in December of 2009?

24

A

In New York?

25

Q

Correct?

I don't know.

I told them that Wali told us to go there

I don't remember.

There was too much going on then.

In fact, you told a lot of different stories about the

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 234 of 280 PageID #: 1309
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

452

1

A

Yeah, I met like a lot of times but I don't remember.

2

Q

Isn't it true that at one meeting you told them that

3

Sultan Bibi had made the medicine call, the coded medicine

4

call about the destruction of evidence?

5

A

6

maybe Sultan Bibi did it.

7

Q

8

it; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

You also at that meeting said that Rabia and Sultan Bibi

11

had poured all the chemicals down the drain and you had done

12

nothing, correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And that was a lie too, correct?

15

A

I think so.

16

Q

You had in fact cut up some of the evidence yourself,

17

correct?

18

A

I don't know.

I think I told them maybe I did it or

It would have been a lie if you had said Sultan had done

Ahuh.

19

THE COURT:

20

THE WITNESS:

That is yes?
Yes.

21

Q

On January 6, 2010, you met with the agents and the

22

prosecutors again; correct?

23

A

I don't know the date.

24

Q

It was two days before your guilty plea.

25

A

I don't know.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 235 of 280 PageID #: 1310
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

453

1

Q

You were here in New York in January 2010, correct?

2

A

2010, yes.

3

Q

And you were staying in a hotel, correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

At government expense?

6

A

Government expense?

7

Q

They were paying for you, correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

And at that meeting you told them about how the chemicals

10

had been destroyed; correct?

11

A

It might be.

12

Q

And that you didn't think Mr. Zazi was present; correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

And two days later you pled guilty; correct?

15

A

I don't know the date.

16

Q

We just talked about the cooperation agreement you signed

17

on January 8, 2010, correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

In that cooperation agreement you promised to tell the

20

truth, correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And then in November 17, 2010, just last year, just last

23

November, you met with the prosecutors and the agents again,

24

correct?

25

A

I have no idea.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 236 of 280 PageID #: 1311
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris
1

Q

2

destruction again; correct?

3

A

I think so.

4

Q

I'm going to show you what is marked Government

5

Exhibit 3500 AZ 53.

6

paragraph describing -- well, I'll let you read it.

454

And you told the agents a story about the evidence

Looking first at the first page, first

7

THE COURT:

You want him to read the top paragraph?

8

MS. HARRIS:

Yes.

9

(Pause.)

10

THE COURT:

Let us know when you're done.

11

Are you done?

12

THE WITNESS:

13

THE COURT:

Yes.

Go ahead.

14

Q

And at that meeting you told them about the conversation

15

between Rabia and Sultan Bibi, correct?

16

A

I think so.

17

Q

And at that meeting you told them that Mr. Zazi was not

18

present, correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And you told them that Sultan Bibi loved her son very

21

much; correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

You told them that Sultan Bibi has control over Mr. Zazi

24

when it comes to her son; correct?

25

A

Possibly, it could be possible.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 237 of 280 PageID #: 1312
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

455

1

Q

2

obligations in your cooperation agreement; correct?

3

A

Yes, but I still lied.

4

Q

Now, one thing that you always said was true about the

5

destruction of evidence is that you were there; correct?

6

A

Yes, I was there.

7

Q

Now, again, you were the one who had helped Najibullah

8

meet up with Al Qaeda, correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And that's where Najibullah learned how to make a bomb;

11

correct?

12

A

13

Waziristan to learn over there how to make a bomb.

14

Q

15

responsibility for what had happened, correct?

16

A

17

to get there to Waziristan.

18

Q

And destroying the chemicals helped you; correct?

19

A

No.

20

Q

Well, if there was less proof against Najibullah, you

21

were the one who had introduced Najibullah to Al Qaeda,

22

correct?

23

A

24

government, I would have lied too.

25

And at the time of that meeting you were under the

I don't know what he learned, but I didn't go with him to

Fair to say that after this all happened you had some

Yes.

That I pushed him toward Waziristan.

I helped him

I shouldn't have done it.

It didn't help me.

Then I will never cooperate and never tell the

THE COURT:

Listen to the question and answer the

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 238 of 280 PageID #: 1313
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

456

1

question.

2

Q

You would destroy evidence to help yourself; correct?

3

A

I think -- I didn't think nothing.

4

Q

You just said a moment ago that you would lie to try and

5

get yourself out of it, correct?

6

A

Later on.

7

Q

If necessary correct?

8

A

Like after we destroy chemicals and everything went to

9

court, went to the grand jury, so then I was helping myself

10

and my family.

11

Q

12

correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

It was in white bottles; correct?

15

A

Containers.

16

Q

Containers.

17

remember; correct?

18

A

I don't remember that much.

19

Q

And there were about 2 or 3 bottles; correct?

20

A

I think so.

21

Q

And at one of the meetings the agents asked you a lot of

22

questions about the substance, correct?

23

A

Yes, they asked me lot of questions.

24

Q

You remember them putting a little cup of another

25

chemical in front of you?

The evidence that you destroyed smelled like bleach;

White bottles with blue labels, if you

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 239 of 280 PageID #: 1314
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

457

1

A

A cup?

I don't remember.

2

Q

They asked you to smell it; correct?

3

A

I think so.

4

Q

They asked you does this smell, smell like what you

5

remember the smell being at Naqib's house?

6

A

Oh, yes, yes.

7

Q

And you said no?

8

A

No.

9

Q

You said it definitely smelled like bleach; correct?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

Before coming to court today you met with the

12

prosecutors; correct?

13

A

Today?

14

Q

Before coming to court today, you did meet with the

15

prosecutors; correct?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

And you met with agents as well; correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And you met with them recently to talk about this trial;

20

correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And they discussed what kinds of questions were going to

23

be asked; correct?

24

A

No, they just tell me to just go with my story.

25

Q

They told you what it might be like when I'm asking

I saw them.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 240 of 280 PageID #: 1315
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

458

1

questions; correct?

2

A

Like what?

3

Q

They told you that Mr. Mohammed Wali Zazi's lawyers might

4

be asking you some questions; correct.

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

They told you how you should answer them, correct?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

And they practiced asking you questions; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

I'm going to talk to you a little bit about Naqib Jaji.

11

Now, you lived with them for several weeks in December of

12

2009; correct?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Before you went to the hotel?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And that was during the time period when you were meeting

17

with the FBI?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And you told them about what you had done in Pakistan;

20

correct?

21

A

Naqib?

22

Q

Rabia and Naqib.

23

A

I told them a lot of stuff.

24

Q

You told them about what had happened with Najibullah in

25

Pakistan, correct?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 241 of 280 PageID #: 1316
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris
1

A

I have no idea.

2

Q

They also told you things; correct?

3

A

About what?

4

Q

They told you that they had thrown out other evidence;

5

correct?

6

A

I don't remember.

7

Q

Rabia had told you that she had thrown out garbage in

8

boxes of Najibullah's that she had found in the garage;

9

correct?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And that they had thrown out that evidence long before

12

September 15, 2009; correct?

13

A

I have no idea what they did.

14

Q

But when you went over on September 15th supposedly to

15

destroy these chemicals, there were no papers or boxes to

16

destroy; correct?

17

A

No.

18

Q

Nowhere to be seen, correct?

19

A

I never searched around the house.

20

and down.

21

Q

22

the FBI.

23

correct?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

That was in Colorado?

459

I was just going up

Now, let's go back to when you first started meeting with
They put you up in a hotel in Denver for a week,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 242 of 280 PageID #: 1317
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

460

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

At that point, although you weren't telling the truth,

3

you had told them that you had helped Najibullah get in touch

4

with Al Qaeda; correct?

5

A

I think so.

6

Q

But they paid for your week in a hotel?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

Correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And they paid for you to fly to New York City, correct?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

You are weren't flown in handcuffs; correct?

13

A

No.

14

Q

You didn't have to wear a prison uniform?

15

A

No.

16

Q

And when you got to New York you were given a lawyer,

17

correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And you continued to tell the government about your

20

crimes; correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And they didn't put you in jail then either, did they?

23

A

No.

24

Q

In fact they put you up in a hotel in New York?

25

A

Yes.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 243 of 280 PageID #: 1318
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

461

1

Q

They paid for your food?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And your transportation?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Your clothes?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

And then there came a time when you actually pled guilty?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

In front of a judge?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

Under oath?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

In this courthouse?

14

A

I don't know if this room or other room, yes.

15

Q

And you were not in jail then either, were you on that

16

day when you pled guilty?

17

A

No.

18

Q

You continued to stay in a hotel; correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And there was no bond or bail set; correct?

21

A

I don't know if they bail me out or what.

22

Q

You didn't have to pay any money to stay out of jail, did

23

you?

24

A

I didn't get nothing, yes.

25

Q

In fact, the government gave you money; correct?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 244 of 280 PageID #: 1319
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

462

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

To continue living?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

And then there came a time in February 20, 2010 when the

5

government paid for a furnished apartment; correct?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

And you stayed in a furnished apartment from February

8

2010 until December 2010; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And they continued -- and the government continued to

11

support you; correct?

12

A

After that time?

13

Q

No, I'm talking about during the time, between February

14

and December of 2010?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

Paid for your food?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

They paid for a cellphone?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

They paid for household items?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

It cost a lot of money, right?

23

A

Might be.

24

Q

And you talked a lot about drug use, problems you've had

25

over the past number of years.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 245 of 280 PageID #: 1320
A. Zazzi - cross - Harris

463

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

After you pled guilty were you subject to any drug

3

testing?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

How many?

6

A

I don't know the count, but the probation officer used to

7

come and do the drug test.

8

Q

Now, recently you had problems with drugs again; correct?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And you came to New York to get ready to testify;

11

correct?

12

A

I wasn't going to testify until I was in jail.

13

Q

And you went to see the judge about -- on July 12th,

14

correct?

15

A

Last week.

16

Q

Just last week you saw the judge?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

When you went to see the judge you were not in prison;

19

correct?

20

A

No.

21

Q

And what was -- at that court appearance you were told

22

that you're being sent to jail because you abused drugs;

23

correct?

24

A

Not testifying.

25

Q

And your lawyer said that they would try to get you out

And drugs.

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 246 of 280 PageID #: 1321
A. Zazzi - redirect - Marrus

464

1

again; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

He would try to get you out after you finished testifying

4

here; correct?

5

A

I think so.

6

MS. HARRIS:

May I have one minute?

7

THE COURT:

Yes.

8

(Pause.)

9

MS. HARRIS:

I have no further questions, Judge.

10

THE COURT:

Thank you, Miss Harris.

11

Any redirect?

12

MS. MARRUS:

Yes, your Honor.

13

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

14

BY MS. MARRUS:

15

Q

16

put up in a hotel and the government paying your expenses.

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

After you began cooperating with the government, was it

19

safe for you to go home?

20

A

No.

21

Q

Had you provided information on people beyond Mr. Zazi?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Had you provided information about people in Al Qaeda?

24

A

Yes.

25

Q

Mr. Zazi, you were asked questions on

Mr. Zazi, you were just asked some questions about being

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 247 of 280 PageID #: 1322
A. Zazzi - redirect - Marrus

465

1

cross-examination -- you heard a recording between yourself

2

and Agent Neener, remember that?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

And during that recording you were asking Agent Neener

5

for a job as a translator?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

Did Agent Neener get you a job as a translator?

8

A

No.

9

Q

Mr. Zazi, you are currently in jail?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

Is that correct?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And you were asked questions on cross-examination about

14

when you went to jail; is that right?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

Why did you go to jail?

17

A

Because I tell them I'm not going to testify, and plus I

18

took drugs.

19

Q

Who weren't you going to testify against?

20

A

The government.

21

Q

I'm sorry?

22

A

The government.

23

Q

Why didn't you want to testify against Wali?

24

A

Because I respect him and he's my uncle.

25

MS. MARRUS:

Against Wali.

May I have a moment?

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 248 of 280 PageID #: 1323
A. Zazzi - redirect - Marrus

466

1

THE COURT:

Yes.

2

MS. MARRUS:

I have no further questions.

3

THE COURT:

Anything further?

4

MS. HARRIS:

Nothing further.

5

THE COURT:

All right.

6

witness out, please.

7

(Witness excused.)

8

THE COURT:

9

You're excused.

Let's break for the day.

tomorrow promptly at 9:30.

your transcript books on your chairs.

11

notes back to the juryroom.

12

overnight.

Leave

You can bring your

Ilene will take care of them

You know the drill:

Don't go looking for

14

information, don't let information find you.

15

evening.

16

9:30.

Don't discuss the case.

Good night.

We will start

Don't discuss the case.

10

13

Take the

Have a nice

See you tomorrow morning at

All rise.

17

(Jury leaves.)

18

THE COURT:

19

(Continued next page)

Please be seated everyone.

Okay.

20
21
22
23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 249 of 280 PageID #: 1324
467
1
2

THE COURT:
Where are we going?

3

Okay.

Let's have the one-day audit.

What's left.

MS. BERGER:

Your Honor, we have, as far as tomorrow

4

looks, we have a number of short law-enforcement witnesses.

5

We have another cooperating witness, Naqib Jaji.

6

THE COURT:

7

MS. BERGER:

Okay.
We'll be playing a few recordings.

The

8

witnesses I think might take a little while tomorrow would be

9

Naqib Jaji and the agent that took Mr. Zazi's statements.

10

THE COURT:

11

that I have misplaced.

12

the government's case?

13
14

MS. BERGER:

I may have a witness list around here
How many witnesses are there total in

I think there's about fourteen, your

Honor.

15

THE COURT:

Okay.

17

MS. BERGER:

Yes.

18

THE COURT:

19

MS. BERGER:

20

THE COURT:

21

Come up, please, Ms. Harris, Ms. Colson.

22

MS. BERGER:

16

You'll get to Naqib Jaji

tomorrow?

All right.

Good night.

Good night, your Honor.
See you tomorrow.

Just briefly, your Honor, members of

23

the media had requested if they had permission to have copies

24

of the photographs that were admitted in evidence.

25

we needed to get the court's permission before we would give

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

And I said

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 250 of 280 PageID #: 1325
468
1

those photos over.

2
3

THE COURT:

They are exhibits in evidence.

I think

they are entitled to them.

4

Do you want to be heard?

5

MR. HARRIS:

6

THE COURT:

7

(Case adjourned to Tuesday, July 19, 2011, at 9:30

8

No, your Honor.
Good night.

a.m.)

9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 251 of 280 PageID #: 1326
469
1

INDEX

2

R O B E R T

3

M A R T E N

252

5

DIRECT EXAMINATION

252

14

4

1, 2, 3 and 4

256

8

5

E R I C

262

19

262

24

J U R G E N S O N

6
7

DIRECT EXAMINATION

8

CROSS-EXAMINATION

295

18

9

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

308

24

313

25

10

A M A N U L L A H

11

DIRECT EXAMINATION

314

12

12

CROSS-EXAMINATION

399

1

13

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

464

13

14

Z A Z I

EXHIBITS

15

1-A

257

11

16

4-A

260

17

17

25A, B and C

265

14

18

6

272

13

19

8

273

2

20

7

273

12

21

10

273

20

22

11

274

2

23

9

274

8

24

13

274

12

25

12

274

17

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 252 of 280 PageID #: 1327
470
1

21, 21 A, 21 B

282

21

2

23 A, B, C and D are received

287

25

3

24 and 24-A through D

289

9

4

25 A through H

290

24

5

16

299

8

6

60

313

11

7

70 through 80

313

11

8

70-T through 80-T

313

12

9

17

317

15

10

18

318

9

11

14

326

6

12

15

327

1

13

16

329

12

14

44

395

15

15

10

401

1

16

8

402

8

17

9

403

22

18

6

405

8

19

5

406

11

20

7

407

12

21
22
23
24
25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 253 of 280 PageID #: 1328

$
$10 [1] - 419:11
$5 [1] - 371:16

'
'97 [1] - 252:22

1
1 [9] - 255:5, 256:8, 256:19, 311:20,
376:4, 469:4, 469:12, 470:12, 470:15
1-A [2] - 257:11, 469:15
10 [9] - 219:22, 273:16, 273:20,
322:19, 400:16, 401:1, 441:15, 469:21,
470:15
10-CR-60 [1] - 219:3
10016 [1] - 219:23
10th [3] - 275:7, 286:12, 303:10
11 [15] - 242:23, 246:14, 274:2, 289:18,
289:20, 305:10, 306:1, 306:2, 327:11,
418:18, 469:15, 469:22, 470:6, 470:7,
470:19
11201 [2] - 219:15, 220:2
11th [2] - 286:14, 443:24
12 [12] - 274:17, 306:14, 306:16, 332:6,
417:24, 469:11, 469:20, 469:24,
469:25, 470:8, 470:13, 470:20
12th [3] - 275:11, 286:13, 463:13
13 [6] - 274:12, 323:4, 332:6, 469:13,
469:18, 469:24
14 [8] - 290:7, 307:9, 308:15, 326:1,
326:6, 469:3, 469:17, 470:11
15 [7] - 326:18, 327:1, 333:11, 459:12,
470:9, 470:12, 470:14
15th [5] - 224:7, 224:22, 258:16,
258:23, 459:14
16 [6] - 299:8, 329:7, 329:12, 354:25,
470:5, 470:13
16th [4] - 262:4, 277:8, 296:2, 339:10
17 [7] - 263:21, 317:15, 453:22,
469:16, 469:25, 470:9
17th [3] - 281:7, 293:22, 300:16
18 [7] - 219:7, 236:8, 318:7, 318:9,
469:8, 470:10
18th [2] - 281:9, 300:25
19 [3] - 293:7, 468:7, 469:5
1990 [1] - 248:16
1999 [6] - 332:4, 332:7, 332:10,
332:21, 376:4, 404:7
1st [2] - 332:4, 341:5

2
2 [11] - 255:15, 256:8, 283:10, 311:23,
365:15, 369:13, 438:20, 456:19, 469:4,
469:19, 469:22

20 [9] - 268:12, 295:4, 341:15, 428:8,
437:8, 448:18, 449:20, 462:4, 469:21
2000 [1] - 329:22
2003 [7] - 252:22, 261:8, 333:2,
333:10, 334:6, 417:14, 422:20
2004 [4] - 261:10, 261:20, 335:18,
335:19
2007 [2] - 222:19, 229:5
2008 [10] - 248:2, 257:22, 258:8,
259:19, 259:22, 259:24, 260:2, 283:10,
336:4, 336:7
2009 [62] - 224:23, 241:25, 242:12,
242:19, 243:16, 246:14, 248:24,
258:16, 258:24, 259:10, 262:4, 264:1,
264:22, 266:1, 267:11, 268:7, 268:24,
271:21, 275:4, 275:11, 275:19, 277:8,
281:7, 281:9, 289:18, 289:20, 290:6,
290:7, 293:7, 295:23, 301:13, 301:22,
302:9, 312:13, 312:15, 312:17, 312:19,
312:21, 312:23, 312:25, 313:2, 313:4,
318:24, 339:8, 341:5, 341:25, 342:16,
352:25, 356:22, 376:10, 390:24,
408:17, 409:9, 409:25, 437:10, 437:11,
441:15, 443:15, 449:20, 451:23,
458:12, 459:12
2010 [11] - 395:20, 444:19, 452:21,
453:1, 453:2, 453:17, 453:22, 462:4,
462:8, 462:14
2011 [6] - 219:7, 450:2, 450:3, 451:6,
451:14, 468:7
20530 [1] - 219:19
21 [15] - 282:14, 282:17, 282:21,
282:22, 282:24, 283:3, 283:11, 284:5,
470:1
22 [4] - 283:18, 283:22, 286:5, 470:17
225 [1] - 220:2
2259 [1] - 266:13
22nd [1] - 259:10
23 [13] - 286:3, 287:6, 287:13, 287:16,
287:17, 287:18, 287:22, 287:25, 288:4,
470:2
24 [9] - 276:5, 289:3, 289:9, 289:24,
422:24, 469:6, 469:9, 470:3, 470:4
24-A [4] - 289:6, 289:9, 289:16, 470:3
24/7 [1] - 264:15
25 [17] - 265:20, 282:2, 290:13, 290:20,
290:24, 291:1, 291:6, 291:13, 291:17,
292:11, 437:10, 469:10, 470:2, 470:4
25-A [1] - 264:24
252 [2] - 469:2, 469:3
256 [1] - 469:4
257 [1] - 469:15
25A [5] - 264:24, 265:14, 268:8,
268:20, 469:17
25B [3] - 265:3, 268:1, 268:11
25C [2] - 265:7, 268:18
25th [2] - 259:24, 260:1
26 [1] - 437:11
260 [1] - 469:16
262 [2] - 469:5, 469:6
265 [1] - 469:17

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

271 [1] - 219:14
272 [1] - 469:18
273 [3] - 469:19, 469:20, 469:21
274 [4] - 469:22, 469:23, 469:24,
469:25
282 [1] - 470:1
287 [1] - 470:2
289 [1] - 470:3
28th [6] - 257:22, 258:7, 259:6, 259:19,
259:22, 261:8
290 [1] - 470:4
295 [1] - 469:8
299 [1] - 470:5
29th [1] - 261:20
2:00 [3] - 345:11, 374:19, 375:7
2nd [2] - 301:22, 302:8

3
3 [7] - 255:19, 256:8, 263:15, 288:21,
369:13, 456:19, 469:4
30 [3] - 341:15, 448:13, 449:1
302 [8] - 303:11, 304:15, 306:14,
307:11, 307:15, 307:16, 307:19
302's [1] - 310:1
303 [1] - 267:18
303-500-2877 [1] - 312:13
303-627-2355 [1] - 312:15
303-688-4176 [1] - 312:17
303-766-3188 [1] - 312:19
303-944-3596 [1] - 312:21
308 [1] - 469:9
313 [4] - 469:10, 470:6, 470:7, 470:8
314 [1] - 469:11
317 [1] - 470:9
318 [1] - 470:10
326 [1] - 470:11
327 [1] - 470:12
329 [1] - 470:13
3307 [1] - 219:23
347-228-6738 [1] - 312:23
348 [1] - 347:9
349 [1] - 347:9
3500 [2] - 302:5, 454:5
3500-AZ-11 [2] - 440:8, 441:4
3500-AZ-4 [1] - 435:14
395 [1] - 470:14
399 [1] - 469:12

4
4 [10] - 255:24, 255:25, 256:8, 260:10,
260:12, 288:21, 312:3, 354:14, 424:5,
469:4
4-A [2] - 260:17, 469:16
40 [1] - 449:21
401 [1] - 470:15
402 [1] - 470:16
403 [2] - 228:21, 470:17

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

1

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 254 of 280 PageID #: 1329

404(b [2] - 221:9, 221:15
405 [1] - 470:18
406 [1] - 470:19
407 [1] - 470:20
40th [1] - 219:22
44 [3] - 395:4, 395:15, 470:14
464 [1] - 469:13
4A [3] - 260:9, 260:12, 261:19
4th [1] - 261:10

5
5 [9] - 354:14, 395:20, 406:7, 406:11,
407:21, 423:13, 424:5, 469:2, 470:19
500-2877 [1] - 267:18
53 [1] - 454:5
58 [1] - 268:10
5th [2] - 444:24, 445:1

7:21:51 [1] - 268:7
7th [4] - 264:22, 268:24, 271:21,
301:13

8
8 [13] - 273:2, 327:24, 401:19, 402:8,
444:19, 453:17, 469:4, 469:19, 469:23,
470:5, 470:16, 470:18
80 [4] - 311:21, 313:6, 313:11, 470:7
80-T [6] - 311:24, 312:4, 312:7, 313:7,
313:12, 470:8
801(d)(2 [1] - 224:25
83 [1] - 262:4
84 [2] - 258:9, 259:21
8:30 [1] - 343:14
8th [1] - 290:6

9

6
6 [10] - 272:13, 316:16, 355:22, 404:23,
405:8, 420:12, 452:21, 469:18, 470:11,
470:18
60 [3] - 313:9, 313:11, 470:6
600 [1] - 334:20
646-702-3691 [1] - 312:25
6th [3] - 266:1, 267:11, 268:7

9 [9] - 242:19, 274:8, 327:18, 403:3,
403:22, 469:23, 470:3, 470:10, 470:17
9-11 [2] - 269:20, 269:22
917-217-3319 [1] - 313:4
950 [1] - 219:19
9:00 [1] - 343:14
9:30 [4] - 219:8, 466:9, 466:16, 468:7
9:32:26 [1] - 269:1
9th [1] - 275:4

7
7 [10] - 273:10, 273:12, 302:5, 322:13,
334:20, 355:22, 407:6, 407:12, 469:20,
470:20
70 [5] - 311:20, 312:7, 313:6, 313:11,
470:7
70-T [7] - 311:23, 312:3, 312:6, 312:10,
313:6, 313:12, 470:8
71 [1] - 311:20
71-T [3] - 311:23, 312:3, 312:6
718 [1] - 261:14
72 [1] - 311:20
72-T [2] - 311:23, 312:3
720-495-0663 [1] - 313:2
73 [1] - 311:20
73-T [2] - 311:23, 312:3
74 [1] - 311:21
74-T [2] - 311:24, 312:4
75 [1] - 311:21
75-T [2] - 311:24, 312:4
76 [4] - 224:17, 224:21, 311:21
76-T [2] - 311:24, 312:4
77 [1] - 311:21
77-T [2] - 311:24, 312:4
78 [1] - 311:21
78-T [3] - 311:24, 312:4, 312:10
79 [1] - 311:21
79-T [2] - 311:24, 312:4
7:09 [1] - 268:10

A
a.m [3] - 219:8, 418:18, 468:8
Abdullah [4] - 283:7, 283:12, 286:22,
288:5
able [8] - 255:1, 255:15, 266:4, 266:7,
266:14, 266:16, 267:21, 428:14
absolutely [3] - 275:2, 291:25, 315:8
Abu [2] - 330:1, 330:4
abused [1] - 463:22
AC [1] - 368:15
accent [1] - 249:16
accept [1] - 430:1
access [1] - 254:15
accommodating [1] - 249:13
accompanied [2] - 296:9, 296:14
accompanying [1] - 428:11
according [1] - 414:7
accordingly [1] - 254:24
account [14] - 266:17, 281:13, 282:16,
282:19, 287:10, 287:14, 288:6, 288:14,
289:7, 290:21, 291:15, 291:18
accountable [3] - 246:4, 246:5
accounts [10] - 281:11, 281:16,
281:18, 281:21, 281:24, 281:25, 282:3,
282:15, 286:7, 287:11
accurate [2] - 227:20, 311:24
accurately [2] - 312:4, 312:11
accused [1] - 249:22

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

acetone [1] - 285:19
actively [1] - 243:17
activities [1] - 248:11
activity [3] - 264:10, 269:11, 446:2
actual [3] - 225:3, 231:13, 253:23
adaption [2] - 227:2, 229:24
add [2] - 336:22, 419:13
addicted [1] - 420:19
addicts [1] - 420:15
addition [6] - 269:19, 270:10, 271:11,
276:23, 317:9, 366:20
additional [1] - 293:22
address [15] - 264:14, 264:16, 265:21,
266:8, 266:13, 266:14, 267:9, 268:3,
271:11, 286:21, 286:25, 287:1, 289:5,
289:14, 290:19
addressed [2] - 278:1, 350:10
addresses [4] - 264:13, 266:4, 288:10,
288:11
Adis [23] - 255:17, 257:5, 259:18,
275:18, 292:16, 315:24, 316:5, 317:10,
317:17, 318:4, 318:25, 355:4, 355:5,
355:12, 355:16, 388:1, 389:21, 390:14,
392:13, 393:10, 395:22, 396:21, 440:25
adjourned [1] - 468:7
adjust [1] - 254:24
admirable [1] - 226:15
admissibility [2] - 225:3, 225:7
admissible [4] - 224:25, 230:4, 230:8,
313:7
admission [7] - 225:1, 225:15, 381:11,
402:7, 403:22, 406:20, 407:11
admit [3] - 400:25, 438:24, 439:7
admitted [4] - 260:10, 291:12, 445:3,
467:24
adopt [6] - 228:2, 228:15, 229:20,
230:15, 230:16, 230:18
adopted [25] - 227:3, 227:9, 227:13,
227:17, 227:19, 228:13, 228:18,
229:21, 230:3, 231:14, 231:18, 231:21,
232:3, 244:11, 328:16, 328:17, 328:25,
329:2, 375:19, 375:21, 375:23, 376:11,
377:3, 381:1, 384:2
adoption [12] - 227:21, 229:16,
229:24, 231:12, 231:24, 375:3, 376:1,
384:12, 384:14, 385:18, 385:19, 389:7
adress [2] - 267:1, 267:2
advance [4] - 223:16, 237:16, 244:25,
346:15
advantage [1] - 230:23
advised [1] - 310:18
advisement [1] - 229:15
Afghan/Russian [1] - 346:6
Afghani [1] - 429:23
Afghanistan [3] - 244:12, 375:20,
429:8
Afghanistan/Pakistan [1] - 263:16
afraid [1] - 248:7
AFTERNOON [1] - 350:1
afternoon [7] - 220:11, 314:14,
314:15, 350:3, 399:3, 399:4, 415:7

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

2

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 255 of 280 PageID #: 1330

afterwards [1] - 417:10
Afzali [12] - 243:24, 243:25, 244:2,
244:3, 244:5, 245:23, 249:24, 293:10,
313:5, 409:20, 409:23, 410:1
age [2] - 408:2, 417:24
agent [21] - 231:22, 253:1, 253:9,
254:14, 255:1, 256:18, 263:6, 263:20,
269:25, 270:17, 271:15, 277:12,
292:19, 309:1, 309:18, 428:5, 428:18,
432:20, 444:2, 450:13, 467:9
Agent [19] - 252:2, 252:16, 256:12,
257:17, 260:6, 261:23, 265:11, 283:5,
283:19, 284:4, 285:13, 288:3, 290:18,
291:7, 291:12, 450:11, 465:2, 465:4,
465:7
agents [43] - 241:25, 245:8, 251:9,
251:11, 275:19, 286:16, 305:1, 306:8,
307:3, 309:11, 390:20, 390:23, 391:1,
391:4, 391:5, 391:13, 392:8, 392:14,
392:17, 393:12, 393:14, 427:6, 427:14,
433:22, 434:12, 434:14, 434:16,
434:18, 435:7, 436:4, 436:8, 437:4,
439:7, 440:18, 442:1, 443:11, 449:20,
451:22, 452:21, 453:23, 454:1, 456:21,
457:17
ago [4] - 248:24, 346:22, 450:4, 456:4
agree [3] - 250:12, 311:8, 343:9
agreed [6] - 249:12, 396:6, 396:11,
422:4, 445:18, 445:21
agreeing [1] - 311:5
agreement [26] - 225:25, 226:6, 299:3,
302:24, 306:22, 315:16, 315:18,
394:23, 395:12, 396:7, 396:9, 398:1,
428:7, 444:14, 444:21, 445:3, 445:13,
446:13, 447:19, 447:23, 447:25, 449:6,
451:1, 453:16, 453:19, 455:2
ahead [13] - 221:17, 226:20, 238:17,
272:12, 285:10, 290:17, 291:11,
307:20, 371:19, 387:24, 404:25, 448:5,
454:13
Ahmad [20] - 220:24, 243:24, 245:22,
249:24, 293:10, 313:5, 329:11, 329:17,
354:6, 354:7, 354:9, 354:10, 354:21,
355:2, 355:3, 355:9, 355:11, 409:19,
411:20
Ahmed [2] - 337:25, 338:1
Ahmedzay [5] - 255:23, 257:5, 259:3,
259:9, 275:17
ahuh [1] - 452:18
Aided [1] - 220:4
aimed [1] - 242:2
air [1] - 254:4
airline [1] - 254:8
Airlines [2] - 261:14, 289:18
airlines [1] - 253:25
airplane [1] - 384:21
Airport [14] - 258:9, 258:10, 258:11,
258:17, 258:20, 259:8, 259:13, 259:14,
259:22, 259:25, 261:14, 261:15,
261:21, 262:3
airport [4] - 258:19, 258:20, 259:12,

384:19
Airways [3] - 258:9, 259:21, 262:4
Ajmal [1] - 357:5
Akbar [4] - 312:22, 313:3, 409:12,
429:2
Al [24] - 242:15, 244:24, 248:3, 315:24,
316:2, 316:5, 316:21, 318:16, 319:1,
325:19, 337:6, 337:7, 338:4, 339:16,
395:22, 426:7, 426:11, 427:1, 438:25,
440:2, 455:8, 455:21, 460:4, 464:23
Al-Qaeda [15] - 242:15, 244:24, 248:3,
315:24, 316:2, 316:5, 316:21, 318:16,
319:1, 395:22, 426:7, 426:11, 427:1,
438:25, 440:2
alcohol [6] - 334:11, 418:8, 424:4,
434:23, 435:2, 435:25
alerted [1] - 276:21
ALLAH [1] - 267:5
allegations [2] - 284:12, 284:18
alleged [1] - 229:10
allow [2] - 347:2, 347:6
allowed [1] - 238:15
allows [1] - 231:25
almost [1] - 239:15
alone [1] - 336:9
aloud [1] - 266:23
Alternate [1] - 220:10
altogether [1] - 449:1
AM [2] - 268:7, 268:10
Amanallah [3] - 221:7, 221:12, 221:18
Amanullah [67] - 221:1, 221:23, 222:4,
225:23, 225:25, 226:11, 226:18,
226:24, 227:8, 227:13, 227:17, 227:25,
228:2, 228:15, 229:11, 230:6, 231:4,
242:14, 242:16, 243:3, 243:11, 244:2,
244:8, 244:10, 244:12, 245:9, 247:23,
247:24, 248:4, 248:5, 249:25, 250:9,
250:19, 250:21, 250:22, 256:2, 260:8,
260:23, 260:24, 261:24, 262:7, 273:5,
277:19, 277:21, 279:8, 279:9, 280:5,
280:7, 280:9, 295:7, 301:17, 301:22,
302:8, 302:17, 303:9, 304:7, 305:10,
305:20, 308:7, 308:14, 309:5, 309:19,
311:2, 312:16, 312:18, 314:5, 388:16
AMERICA [1] - 219:3
American [1] - 248:23
amount [1] - 267:16
amout [1] - 267:17
analysis [1] - 311:11
analysts [1] - 275:25
ANDREW [1] - 219:16
angry [1] - 414:21
anniversary [2] - 242:23, 269:20
answer [20] - 236:19, 237:9, 237:12,
238:2, 238:8, 238:10, 279:6, 309:15,
381:24, 383:20, 388:13, 389:4, 389:10,
412:12, 425:10, 436:24, 437:12,
445:25, 455:25, 458:6
answered [1] - 412:5
answering [1] - 425:11
answers [2] - 242:5, 243:15

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

anytime [1] - 416:16
anyway [3] - 237:4, 238:19, 370:20
AOA,,hi [1] - 266:25
apartment [4] - 271:24, 342:2, 462:5,
462:7
apartments [2] - 243:5, 243:6
apologize [5] - 256:16, 260:17, 307:9,
311:3, 381:16
apology [1] - 359:17
appear [5] - 229:11, 296:25, 297:3,
343:19, 344:14
appearance [1] - 463:21
appearances [2] - 220:8, 240:8
APPEARANCES [1] - 219:12
appeared [3] - 282:4, 282:11, 284:6
application [4] - 223:19, 223:24,
223:25, 293:20
apply [1] - 421:12
appointment [2] - 365:14, 449:16
appreciate [2] - 237:19, 284:22
approached [1] - 244:1
appropriate [2] - 235:21, 361:2
approval [4] - 270:6, 270:9, 270:10,
301:15
approved [3] - 270:18, 270:20, 292:24
April [3] - 261:10, 262:4, 339:10
area [3] - 296:21, 297:9, 310:15
argue [16] - 221:11, 221:23, 222:10,
225:4, 225:16, 225:20, 227:16, 227:18,
228:17, 231:9, 231:18, 231:20, 231:23,
232:3, 347:4
arguing [3] - 226:23, 227:3, 230:18
argument [3] - 228:18, 230:25, 237:6
arguments [3] - 225:2, 235:16, 236:3
Armstrong [2] - 296:12, 299:24
arranged [3] - 290:4, 440:19, 440:24
arrangement [1] - 289:18
arrest [1] - 390:16
arrested [8] - 293:4, 293:8, 293:9,
293:10, 390:17, 390:19, 427:6, 433:13
arrival [1] - 258:20
arrived [9] - 242:22, 258:11, 260:1,
261:21, 262:9, 263:18, 275:6, 286:12,
296:9
arrives [1] - 259:21
arriving [2] - 261:15, 289:22
Arthur [3] - 296:12, 299:20, 299:23
articulable [1] - 270:15
aside [1] - 251:19
aslamulikum [1] - 267:14
assessments [2] - 270:2, 270:3
assigned [6] - 253:2, 263:6, 263:14,
263:15, 263:23, 275:25
assignments [2] - 276:3, 276:5
assistance [1] - 447:11
Assistant [1] - 219:17
associate [1] - 426:1
associated [3] - 292:1, 426:7, 426:11
assumed [1] - 227:12
ate [1] - 442:8
ATSP [5] - 253:21, 254:1, 254:11,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 256 of 280 PageID #: 1331

255:13, 255:22
attached [2] - 286:22, 288:16
attachment [3] - 283:14, 285:13
attachments [4] - 283:16, 283:20,
284:5, 288:7
attack [3] - 242:2, 242:3, 244:19
attacks [2] - 242:23, 269:20
attended [5] - 244:1, 277:11, 417:7,
426:14, 426:16
attention [12] - 264:1, 283:3, 288:3,
288:9, 313:20, 336:4, 352:25, 432:1,
438:11, 438:12, 440:10, 441:5
attenuated [1] - 347:1
attorney [4] - 309:8, 309:10, 443:8,
447:21
Attorney [1] - 219:14
Attorney's [1] - 445:4
Attorneys [1] - 219:17
attorneys [1] - 277:13
attributions [1] - 383:10
audio [11] - 303:3, 304:12, 304:20,
304:23, 305:2, 305:4, 306:6, 306:10,
306:24, 307:1, 307:5
audit [1] - 467:1
August [12] - 252:22, 257:22, 258:7,
259:6, 259:19, 259:22, 332:4, 336:4,
336:7, 341:5, 342:17, 376:4
Aunt [2] - 319:13, 320:1
aunt [7] - 319:13, 322:23, 323:8,
323:18, 331:1, 410:9
aunt's [3] - 323:17, 352:8, 431:18
aunts [1] - 274:16
Aurora [6] - 266:13, 271:24, 290:8,
341:7, 341:8, 341:14
AUSTERN [1] - 219:24
auto [1] - 414:8
Automatic [1] - 253:21
avail [1] - 234:7
available [3] - 236:23, 237:3, 337:20
avails [1] - 235:9
Avenue [1] - 219:19
aware [6] - 276:14, 276:17, 276:22,
308:16, 365:4, 446:3
AZ [2] - 302:5, 454:5
Azai [1] - 271:7

B
Babrak [14] - 325:9, 325:17, 326:22,
341:16, 352:13, 352:14, 352:20,
356:14, 356:17, 357:5, 357:7, 380:12,
382:8, 383:7
Babrak's [13] - 325:5, 325:8, 326:11,
352:15, 377:24, 378:6, 380:9, 381:13,
381:19, 382:2, 382:4, 382:6, 382:24
baby [2] - 230:12, 419:5
backdrop [2] - 284:19, 285:2
background [2] - 269:10, 357:24
bad [4] - 396:16, 396:18, 396:19, 397:9
bag [9] - 370:13, 370:14, 370:15,

370:23, 371:11, 371:19, 372:18, 373:6,
419:22
bags [1] - 371:22
bail [2] - 461:20, 461:21
Bakr [1] - 330:4
Bakr's [1] - 330:1
ball [4] - 285:2, 346:15, 423:14
bar [3] - 278:2, 279:1, 347:7
Barbak [3] - 378:8, 379:8
base [1] - 234:12
baseball [3] - 423:13, 423:14, 423:15
based [5] - 253:20, 261:11, 261:23,
270:14, 355:11
basement [1] - 431:20
bases [5] - 226:7, 253:15, 253:22,
254:3, 254:15
basics [1] - 254:4
basis [5] - 237:6, 256:4, 381:7, 381:11,
413:6
bastard [1] - 320:12
bathroom [5] - 320:1, 320:24, 321:2,
367:22, 367:25
beat [1] - 422:7
beating [1] - 422:9
beauty [1] - 285:17
became [5] - 248:22, 365:4, 389:22,
389:23, 421:10
become [7] - 239:13, 240:25, 252:23,
264:4, 274:21, 275:3, 276:13
bedrock [1] - 233:18
bedroom [4] - 320:1, 321:2, 342:5,
431:20
BEFORE [1] - 219:9
began [9] - 271:16, 271:18, 271:20,
305:25, 312:6, 404:7, 411:24, 417:22,
464:18
begin [6] - 232:17, 232:19, 269:7,
269:14, 269:24, 271:19
beginning [1] - 449:19
behalf [3] - 233:25, 234:1, 350:16
behaving [3] - 333:6, 422:7, 422:10
behind [7] - 228:22, 228:23, 252:5,
321:1, 402:1, 402:5, 403:13
belonging [1] - 281:14
benefit [2] - 237:5, 446:17
benefits [1] - 446:15
Berger [2] - 285:8, 310:21
BERGER [54] - 219:15, 222:14,
222:16, 222:19, 222:22, 222:25,
224:15, 224:20, 225:22, 226:10,
226:16, 226:21, 227:24, 229:7, 263:2,
265:14, 265:18, 272:11, 272:18,
272:20, 273:6, 273:12, 273:20, 279:4,
279:8, 279:12, 282:21, 283:17, 283:22,
285:9, 285:11, 287:16, 287:19, 288:21,
288:25, 289:9, 290:16, 290:23, 291:9,
293:14, 295:6, 295:9, 295:11, 301:20,
308:23, 308:25, 310:20, 350:13, 467:3,
467:7, 467:13, 467:17, 467:19, 467:22
BERIT [1] - 219:15
best [2] - 249:18, 383:10

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

better [5] - 248:21, 249:3, 432:19,
433:14, 439:23
between [13] - 221:6, 224:6, 226:18,
227:5, 230:6, 258:23, 291:14, 321:6,
364:13, 445:3, 454:15, 462:13, 465:1
beyond [2] - 233:7, 464:21
Bibi [62] - 250:9, 273:17, 319:13,
320:1, 320:2, 320:8, 320:20, 320:24,
321:6, 321:8, 321:11, 321:21, 322:1,
322:5, 322:21, 325:21, 341:20, 342:2,
354:19, 363:24, 364:14, 364:17,
364:21, 366:3, 366:12, 367:2, 367:19,
368:16, 369:10, 370:7, 371:2, 371:15,
373:23, 376:16, 377:19, 379:20,
381:23, 382:10, 384:20, 385:20,
387:18, 388:2, 388:8, 388:21, 389:17,
390:12, 394:18, 399:17, 399:22, 402:3,
403:15, 406:7, 416:7, 416:15, 431:1,
449:12, 452:3, 452:6, 452:10, 454:15,
454:20, 454:23
big [5] - 342:2, 343:4, 431:18, 431:20,
443:25
bigger [2] - 389:8, 431:19
binder [3] - 224:18, 224:21, 313:15
biological [12] - 222:5, 226:25, 227:2,
227:7, 227:14, 227:25, 228:1, 228:13,
231:13, 279:9, 399:13, 399:15
birth [1] - 254:5
bit [14] - 220:16, 247:25, 284:21,
305:15, 345:2, 351:13, 357:9, 405:24,
408:15, 417:3, 418:5, 426:19, 440:11,
458:10
blamed [1] - 434:21
bleach [5] - 368:10, 368:11, 368:13,
456:11, 457:9
block [1] - 317:5
blogging [2] - 241:16, 241:19
blood [1] - 280:8
blot [1] - 246:13
blow [1] - 347:3
blue [2] - 403:4, 456:16
board [2] - 316:24, 316:25
boarded [2] - 254:9, 259:25
body [1] - 414:8
boiling [4] - 342:9, 342:14, 342:21,
343:11
bomb [11] - 242:22, 243:21, 245:24,
245:25, 246:13, 246:19, 247:17, 251:6,
319:7, 455:10, 455:13
bomb-making [2] - 245:24, 247:17
bombarded [1] - 247:5
bombing [2] - 288:16, 346:25
bond [1] - 461:20
bookbag [5] - 370:21, 370:22, 370:23,
371:4, 371:11
books [3] - 313:20, 345:12, 466:10
border [1] - 249:8
bored [2] - 422:8, 433:6
born [3] - 314:16, 315:11, 407:2
boss [2] - 443:25, 444:10
bottles [3] - 456:14, 456:16, 456:19

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

4

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 257 of 280 PageID #: 1332

bottom [8] - 255:2, 259:18, 265:21,
268:19, 305:12, 305:16, 306:15, 440:10
bought [3] - 335:22, 404:18, 404:20
bound [1] - 257:21
bounds [2] - 237:11, 238:11
box [1] - 283:7
boxes [2] - 459:8, 459:15
boy [2] - 401:22, 401:24
boys [2] - 246:18, 420:16
break [15] - 236:6, 288:20, 288:24,
345:10, 351:11, 369:4, 369:5, 369:6,
369:19, 369:24, 369:25, 415:4, 415:7,
466:8
brief [1] - 220:20
briefing [3] - 304:4, 304:11, 304:20
briefly [5] - 308:23, 333:5, 350:10,
364:10, 467:22
bring [11] - 232:11, 235:2, 235:3,
255:2, 279:3, 295:10, 313:22, 370:20,
415:15, 444:7, 466:10
bringing [1] - 421:6
broadcast [3] - 241:11, 304:23, 307:1
broken [1] - 370:11
Brooklyn [10] - 219:5, 219:15, 220:2,
244:17, 245:20, 377:10, 377:16,
384:16, 385:3, 388:20
brother [9] - 247:14, 248:25, 271:7,
274:11, 279:9, 279:10, 280:8, 281:1,
292:5
brother-in-law [2] - 247:14, 248:25
brothers [6] - 331:7, 331:8, 331:9,
331:20, 352:18, 352:19
brought [9] - 222:20, 222:22, 249:10,
297:24, 298:7, 375:19, 392:17, 430:23,
441:24
brown [1] - 403:9
building [4] - 242:22, 284:14, 297:7,
300:2
burden [4] - 220:12, 232:25, 233:2,
233:12
burn [3] - 369:3, 369:9, 369:11
Burton [1] - 220:1
business [2] - 267:2, 409:9
busy [1] - 380:14
buy [5] - 249:7, 334:23, 334:25,
371:21, 442:2
BY [24] - 219:15, 219:24, 252:15,
257:2, 263:2, 285:11, 295:19, 308:25,
314:13, 317:8, 325:2, 362:4, 372:1,
381:18, 383:14, 389:15, 399:2, 402:12,
411:1, 414:3, 415:21, 425:1, 443:1,
464:14

C
cab [2] - 248:19, 418:13
Cadman [2] - 219:14, 220:2
called-appearances [1] - 220:8
camera [3] - 297:13, 297:16, 298:23
camp [3] - 250:24, 426:14, 426:17

camped [1] - 277:3
camps [1] - 248:3
cannot [1] - 224:12
capacity [1] - 228:7
captured [1] - 262:11
car [20] - 242:19, 275:5, 286:14, 290:2,
346:12, 351:22, 351:24, 353:15,
353:16, 353:19, 353:21, 353:23, 354:1,
356:13, 357:4, 375:11, 380:15
card [1] - 429:18
care [13] - 220:13, 250:25, 267:4,
320:20, 322:5, 322:10, 365:18, 366:15,
373:1, 399:21, 400:2, 400:4, 466:11
careful [1] - 431:3
carefully [6] - 243:9, 245:16, 250:1,
251:17, 251:20, 445:6
carried [2] - 242:21, 426:21
carrier [2] - 254:4, 259:7
cars [1] - 408:16
case [66] - 220:8, 222:9, 222:20,
222:22, 225:23, 229:2, 229:8, 229:9,
231:15, 231:19, 232:10, 232:24, 233:4,
233:5, 233:13, 234:12, 234:20, 234:22,
235:21, 235:23, 235:24, 236:3, 236:5,
236:10, 236:11, 236:16, 238:6, 239:13,
239:20, 240:3, 240:6, 240:7, 241:12,
241:17, 241:18, 245:5, 245:17, 246:11,
246:19, 246:20, 251:4, 251:8, 251:11,
251:22, 270:17, 277:12, 284:11,
284:12, 284:14, 284:20, 293:17, 315:1,
345:11, 359:24, 375:18, 390:17,
392:11, 392:12, 392:13, 410:3, 415:8,
450:15, 466:9, 466:15, 467:12, 468:7
cases [2] - 293:2, 447:14
cash [1] - 419:4
caught [6] - 276:24, 340:8, 378:24,
420:9, 420:24
caused [2] - 269:7, 269:13
CBP's [1] - 254:11
cell [5] - 310:10, 310:14, 310:15,
429:9, 429:11
cellphone [8] - 297:6, 297:8, 298:2,
298:11, 298:12, 298:13, 298:15, 462:18
center [2] - 401:20, 440:11
ceremony [1] - 330:12
certain [6] - 228:21, 293:21, 298:11,
311:6, 445:13, 445:16
certainly [2] - 241:8, 434:18
chair [2] - 248:8, 252:5
chairs [2] - 345:13, 466:10
chance [3] - 235:2, 235:15, 277:4
chances [1] - 432:19
change [3] - 235:25, 236:2, 276:10
charge [2] - 233:8, 448:18
charged [10] - 232:21, 235:17, 244:22,
244:23, 244:24, 244:25, 245:4, 246:7,
284:19, 449:7
charges [8] - 232:24, 234:22, 235:8,
284:14, 285:3, 346:8, 346:16, 395:24
chase [1] - 431:12
cheaper [1] - 423:11

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

check [2] - 367:19, 430:3
checked [1] - 373:20
checking [3] - 264:13, 368:4, 368:6
checkpoint [1] - 340:8
chemical [7] - 319:23, 325:22, 342:18,
363:10, 364:22, 371:3, 456:25
chemicals [65] - 243:20, 247:17,
247:18, 250:6, 250:10, 250:14, 285:14,
285:16, 318:21, 318:22, 319:3, 319:5,
319:14, 320:4, 320:15, 321:14, 321:19,
322:6, 322:10, 322:17, 323:2, 323:12,
323:20, 323:24, 326:14, 342:7, 359:5,
359:6, 363:19, 363:21, 364:1, 364:5,
364:7, 365:6, 365:21, 365:23, 366:5,
366:16, 366:18, 367:10, 367:21, 368:1,
368:22, 370:4, 379:14, 379:16, 379:19,
379:23, 380:4, 380:17, 380:21, 380:23,
394:13, 395:23, 396:22, 443:3, 443:6,
443:12, 443:15, 452:11, 453:9, 455:18,
456:8, 459:15
chemist [1] - 245:25
Chevy [1] - 409:2
Chicago [2] - 353:4, 356:12
chicken [1] - 420:7
chief [1] - 444:2
child [5] - 222:5, 231:18, 399:8,
400:17, 400:19
children [6] - 248:21, 248:22, 327:7,
400:3, 400:4, 406:15
chip [5] - 357:8, 357:14, 357:21, 358:2
chips [1] - 366:20
choice [4] - 233:16, 243:12, 243:13,
245:2
choices [1] - 246:4
chooses [2] - 233:20, 233:22
chose [2] - 433:18, 437:1
chosen [1] - 234:7
citizen [4] - 248:22, 429:16, 429:17,
430:4
City [11] - 242:2, 246:19, 269:21,
275:6, 275:13, 275:23, 276:25, 286:12,
293:11, 347:1, 460:10
city [2] - 244:19, 272:1
claimed [1] - 229:12
claims [1] - 228:23
clarification [1] - 406:13
clarify [2] - 293:23, 449:22
clarity [2] - 224:15, 292:11
classes [1] - 417:20
clay [3] - 342:22, 343:11, 344:6
clay-like [1] - 344:6
clear [7] - 225:8, 244:22, 262:5,
314:22, 352:5, 362:16, 428:18
clearly [3] - 224:25, 231:7, 359:9
CLERK [4] - 252:9, 262:22, 314:4,
428:15
client [15] - 221:7, 221:12, 221:18,
221:19, 222:5, 224:6, 224:9, 227:17,
230:7, 231:18, 231:23, 346:21, 389:6
climb [1] - 371:14
clip [4] - 241:14, 299:13, 300:9, 300:12

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

5

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 258 of 280 PageID #: 1333

clippings [1] - 241:13
close [1] - 408:2
closer [1] - 288:25
closing [1] - 235:16
clothed [1] - 221:20
clothes [2] - 404:18, 461:5
club [1] - 220:14
clubs [2] - 378:24
CM [1] - 220:1
co [2] - 277:12, 388:17
co-case [1] - 277:12
co-conspirators [1] - 388:17
coat [1] - 272:6
cocaine [3] - 334:13, 398:17, 424:2
coconspirator [3] - 359:7, 359:25,
388:24
coconspirators [1] - 245:10
code [6] - 365:16, 366:7, 366:8,
366:17, 366:25, 367:14
coded [1] - 452:3
coffee [3] - 356:1, 356:8
coin [1] - 238:7
collect [1] - 420:18
collected [1] - 243:21
Collins [2] - 307:22, 307:24
color [2] - 342:22, 403:6
Colorado [41] - 242:17, 242:20, 243:3,
244:10, 246:1, 247:14, 249:1, 263:7,
264:8, 275:8, 275:13, 275:20, 276:9,
277:1, 281:4, 289:23, 290:8, 307:22,
307:24, 308:8, 341:1, 341:4, 341:6,
341:17, 341:19, 351:12, 351:14, 353:1,
356:15, 390:2, 391:2, 392:4, 405:24,
406:1, 406:3, 407:9, 424:10, 431:19,
440:3, 441:20, 459:25
COLSON [62] - 219:22, 219:24,
220:20, 221:1, 221:16, 221:18, 222:3,
223:2, 223:7, 223:10, 223:13, 223:22,
223:25, 224:6, 225:13, 225:19, 226:9,
227:16, 228:14, 230:2, 230:6, 230:9,
230:14, 230:16, 230:20, 231:3, 231:17,
232:6, 247:21, 256:9, 260:19, 262:15,
265:16, 272:9, 272:22, 273:7, 273:13,
273:21, 277:22, 277:25, 282:6, 282:8,
282:24, 283:23, 285:7, 287:22, 289:11,
291:1, 291:5, 295:4, 295:16, 295:19,
299:2, 299:8, 302:3, 303:12, 308:20,
310:7, 310:23, 317:22, 318:11, 350:7
Colson [6] - 277:24, 287:21, 307:20,
308:21, 310:22, 467:21
comfortable [1] - 309:11
coming [13] - 224:2, 254:25, 284:10,
336:25, 337:1, 366:10, 366:11, 366:15,
366:18, 367:13, 367:14, 457:11, 457:14
command [3] - 276:4, 276:6, 314:22
comments [2] - 378:18, 378:22
commit [1] - 414:14
committed [2] - 245:3, 245:7
common [1] - 410:6
communicate [1] - 239:22
communicated [1] - 300:4

communicating [1] - 241:15
communication [5] - 239:25, 240:13,
240:21, 241:3, 249:14
communications [2] - 264:7
Communications [1] - 253:19
community [2] - 239:15, 330:24
company [1] - 352:4
compelled [1] - 251:22
compelling [1] - 232:10
competition [1] - 438:1
completely [1] - 393:14
completion [1] - 263:23
complex [1] - 371:14
comply [2] - 240:20, 396:9
complying [1] - 240:18
compound [1] - 399:11
computer [5] - 242:21, 286:16, 408:7,
408:13
Computer [1] - 220:4
computers [1] - 408:4
conceal [2] - 246:22, 246:23
concealed [2] - 242:8, 243:19
concealing [1] - 243:14
concern [4] - 220:14, 220:17, 230:1,
359:23
concerned [4] - 230:17, 230:22,
231:11, 231:12
conclusion [1] - 246:6
conduct [2] - 235:12, 307:17
conducted [6] - 271:12, 276:25, 277:9,
295:25, 304:4, 309:19
conducting [1] - 247:3
conducts [1] - 253:7
confirmation [1] - 289:25
conflict [2] - 346:6, 346:22
confused [2] - 246:15, 247:13
confusing [1] - 280:12
congregation [1] - 330:16
connected [2] - 275:16, 316:7
connecting [2] - 262:1, 262:5
connection [2] - 254:17, 292:20
consent [3] - 281:15, 281:19, 298:6
consider [3] - 245:15, 311:15, 397:10
consideration [1] - 222:10
considered [2] - 311:6, 311:9
considering [1] - 233:9
consistency [3] - 342:23, 343:11,
344:12
consistent [7] - 233:12, 234:3, 246:6,
264:9, 266:22, 269:9, 269:11
conspiracy [8] - 232:21, 250:17,
359:8, 388:17, 389:1, 389:6, 389:7,
389:8
conspirators [2] - 245:10, 388:17
conspired [1] - 285:4
constitutes [1] - 225:15
constructive [2] - 346:20, 346:24
consulted [2] - 337:14, 337:18
contain [1] - 284:1
contained [6] - 238:11, 256:3, 264:9,
268:20, 289:6, 446:15

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

container [4] - 371:4, 419:1, 419:5,
419:19
containers [10] - 368:19, 368:20,
370:1, 370:2, 370:6, 370:8, 370:10,
456:15, 456:16
containing [2] - 242:21, 373:6
contains [1] - 288:7
contents [1] - 299:16
context [4] - 225:13, 225:16, 284:17,
284:22
continue [6] - 293:12, 345:3, 359:21,
359:22, 364:18, 462:2
Continued [13] - 237:21, 278:3,
279:14, 280:13, 303:15, 347:8, 358:13,
361:12, 371:23, 412:13, 413:9, 424:19,
466:19
continued [10] - 256:22, 309:15,
324:4, 410:12, 422:13, 442:9, 460:19,
461:18, 462:10
CONTINUED [1] - 257:1
CONTINUING [1] - 325:1
continuing [1] - 351:8
control [1] - 454:23
conversation [68] - 237:9, 240:11,
312:5, 319:16, 319:17, 319:20, 320:7,
321:3, 321:5, 321:6, 321:9, 321:11,
321:25, 322:4, 325:11, 339:22, 339:24,
340:2, 340:18, 354:12, 354:15, 354:18,
355:17, 356:22, 356:25, 358:5, 358:6,
360:12, 361:3, 361:5, 362:5, 362:17,
363:2, 363:7, 363:14, 363:23, 364:13,
365:25, 375:17, 377:21, 377:24, 378:3,
379:2, 379:4, 379:11, 379:13, 379:17,
380:6, 380:9, 380:12, 380:22, 380:23,
380:24, 381:2, 381:13, 381:19, 382:24,
383:23, 387:17, 388:7, 413:4, 414:16,
449:14, 451:7, 451:11, 451:15, 454:14
conversations [9] - 245:20, 311:21,
319:15, 325:4, 372:22, 373:14, 375:14,
376:23, 390:4
convinced [2] - 233:7, 242:8
cook [1] - 399:25
cooking [1] - 400:5
cooperate [4] - 250:5, 396:8, 396:10,
455:23
cooperating [3] - 396:24, 464:18,
467:5
cooperation [25] - 225:25, 226:6,
249:21, 302:24, 306:22, 315:16,
315:18, 394:23, 395:11, 395:12, 396:7,
396:9, 398:1, 398:2, 444:14, 447:22,
447:25, 448:7, 449:6, 449:19, 449:22,
451:1, 453:16, 453:19, 455:2
cooperator [1] - 295:7
coount [1] - 269:2
cop [1] - 394:10
Copeland [1] - 450:11
copied [1] - 270:21
copies [2] - 301:25, 467:23
copious [1] - 238:23
copy [3] - 224:17, 270:11, 286:19

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

6

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 259 of 280 PageID #: 1334

corner [2] - 317:1, 364:16
correct [395] - 222:14, 229:7, 269:23,
270:20, 277:24, 286:23, 288:15,
288:17, 292:21, 295:25, 296:10,
296:18, 296:23, 297:7, 297:14, 297:18,
297:21, 297:22, 297:25, 298:3, 298:8,
298:17, 298:19, 298:21, 298:25,
299:17, 299:20, 300:7, 300:10, 300:13,
300:16, 301:1, 301:13, 301:18, 301:23,
302:9, 302:12, 302:19, 302:22, 303:7,
304:2, 304:5, 304:12, 304:21, 304:24,
305:2, 305:10, 305:21, 306:11, 306:14,
306:15, 306:18, 307:10, 308:2, 308:4,
308:8, 308:12, 309:16, 314:23, 321:3,
322:6, 359:13, 360:18, 360:19, 361:9,
389:3, 399:6, 399:11, 399:17, 399:21,
400:3, 400:6, 400:17, 400:21, 401:6,
401:10, 401:12, 401:14, 401:16,
401:20, 402:1, 402:5, 402:13, 402:17,
402:19, 402:21, 403:4, 403:7, 404:2,
404:7, 404:13, 405:1, 405:12, 405:17,
405:22, 406:1, 406:4, 406:8, 406:16,
406:25, 407:3, 407:7, 407:9, 407:18,
408:2, 408:5, 408:8, 408:13, 408:17,
408:19, 408:22, 408:25, 409:2, 409:10,
409:14, 409:16, 409:20, 409:23, 410:1,
410:2, 410:4, 410:7, 411:3, 411:6,
411:8, 411:10, 411:19, 411:22, 411:24,
412:1, 412:10, 414:5, 414:8, 414:12,
414:17, 414:23, 414:25, 415:2, 415:24,
416:3, 416:8, 416:10, 416:19, 416:22,
416:24, 417:1, 417:5, 417:8, 417:11,
417:14, 417:16, 417:18, 417:22, 418:2,
418:6, 418:9, 418:14, 418:22, 418:24,
419:2, 419:7, 419:13, 419:15, 419:17,
419:20, 419:22, 419:25, 420:3, 420:7,
420:24, 421:6, 421:9, 421:15, 421:17,
421:20, 421:22, 422:1, 422:5, 422:13,
422:20, 422:23, 423:3, 423:5, 423:9,
423:11, 423:17, 423:21, 424:8, 424:10,
424:15, 424:17, 425:3, 425:5, 425:8,
425:11, 425:13, 425:21, 425:24, 426:1,
426:4, 426:17, 426:23, 427:1, 427:3,
427:7, 427:14, 427:17, 428:6, 428:19,
428:22, 428:25, 429:4, 430:12, 430:16,
430:20, 431:13, 431:17, 431:22,
432:22, 433:4, 433:11, 433:19, 433:23,
433:25, 434:2, 434:6, 434:10, 434:12,
434:14, 434:19, 434:21, 434:24, 435:3,
435:8, 435:23, 435:25, 436:5, 436:8,
436:10, 436:21, 436:22, 437:1, 437:4,
437:15, 437:20, 438:15, 438:18,
438:22, 438:25, 439:5, 439:8, 439:11,
439:13, 439:17, 440:2, 440:19, 440:22,
441:2, 441:15, 441:17, 441:20, 441:22,
442:2, 443:3, 443:5, 443:9, 443:12,
443:15, 443:18, 443:22, 443:25, 444:2,
444:4, 444:12, 444:19, 444:21, 445:4,
445:11, 445:14, 445:16, 445:19,
445:21, 445:23, 445:25, 446:3, 446:10,
446:13, 446:20, 446:22, 447:2, 447:5,
447:8, 447:11, 447:14, 447:17, 447:20,

447:23, 448:1, 448:7, 448:15, 448:19,
449:4, 449:7, 449:11, 449:14, 449:17,
449:21, 450:2, 450:9, 450:11, 450:13,
450:15, 450:18, 450:21, 450:23, 451:1,
451:8, 451:15, 451:20, 451:25, 452:8,
452:12, 452:14, 452:17, 452:22, 453:1,
453:3, 453:7, 453:10, 453:12, 453:14,
453:17, 453:20, 453:24, 454:2, 454:15,
454:18, 454:21, 454:24, 455:2, 455:5,
455:8, 455:11, 455:15, 455:18, 455:22,
456:2, 456:5, 456:7, 456:12, 456:14,
456:17, 456:19, 456:22, 457:2, 457:9,
457:12, 457:15, 457:17, 457:20,
457:23, 458:1, 458:4, 458:6, 458:8,
458:12, 458:20, 458:25, 459:2, 459:5,
459:9, 459:12, 459:16, 459:18, 459:23,
460:4, 460:8, 460:10, 460:12, 460:17,
460:20, 461:18, 461:20, 461:25, 462:5,
462:8, 462:11, 463:8, 463:11, 463:14,
463:19, 463:23, 464:1, 464:4, 465:11
corroborated [1] - 245:17
corrupt [1] - 228:25
cost [7] - 228:8, 228:9, 229:9, 334:19,
402:19, 419:15, 462:22
counsel [5] - 233:24, 235:1, 317:3,
346:10, 347:7
count [1] - 463:6
counter [1] - 253:8
counter-terrorism [1] - 253:8
country [10] - 221:24, 242:20, 243:8,
248:16, 249:15, 262:2, 275:5, 422:8,
422:9
counts [3] - 232:22, 245:5, 251:23
couple [13] - 232:22, 238:18, 320:19,
330:22, 334:13, 357:1, 371:13, 419:18,
422:17, 429:25, 430:21, 436:4, 438:22
course [12] - 234:14, 236:13, 237:17,
237:20, 239:7, 239:16, 240:1, 240:12,
240:14, 241:7, 263:22, 263:23
courses [1] - 263:24
Court [2] - 220:1, 220:1
COURT [1] - 219:1
court [22] - 220:8, 239:6, 248:8,
249:22, 251:21, 272:3, 280:1, 292:24,
295:1, 301:15, 311:7, 350:2, 362:1,
381:17, 389:14, 414:1, 415:12, 449:9,
456:9, 457:11, 457:14, 463:21
court's [1] - 467:25
court-case [1] - 220:8
Courthouse [1] - 219:4
courthouse [3] - 239:15, 244:17,
461:13
COURTNEY [1] - 219:18
courtroom [7] - 233:3, 234:7, 239:19,
240:6, 240:8, 345:14, 345:16
cousin [8] - 242:13, 271:6, 315:23,
316:9, 316:13, 316:19, 352:20, 429:5
cousins [5] - 331:1, 352:15, 352:19,
352:21, 400:6
cover [3] - 226:7, 243:19, 287:20
coverage [3] - 226:1, 226:6, 264:15

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

covered [1] - 226:11
crack [1] - 251:10
crashing [1] - 249:4
crazy [1] - 421:10
create [3] - 303:3, 305:4, 416:3
created [1] - 306:10
creates [1] - 228:22
credibility [1] - 438:10
credit [4] - 394:12, 438:8, 438:9,
438:10
crime [4] - 228:25, 284:17, 285:1,
425:7
crimes [16] - 226:1, 226:11, 235:17,
245:3, 245:7, 245:13, 245:15, 246:7,
250:21, 284:19, 315:19, 315:21,
318:18, 396:1, 449:7, 460:20
criminal [6] - 233:4, 233:13, 233:18,
241:16, 276:25, 446:2
CROSS [4] - 295:18, 399:1, 469:8,
469:12
cross [10] - 221:6, 223:12, 231:4,
234:25, 235:13, 262:14, 262:15, 295:2,
465:1, 465:13
CROSS-EXAMINATION [4] - 295:18,
399:1, 469:8, 469:12
cross-examination [5] - 221:6, 231:4,
234:25, 465:1, 465:13
crossing [3] - 257:20, 258:6, 258:7
cup [9] - 368:19, 368:25, 369:6, 369:8,
369:22, 369:23, 369:25, 456:24, 457:1
custody [5] - 295:9, 302:17, 304:7,
305:23, 307:25
custom [1] - 411:10
Customs [4] - 252:18, 252:20, 252:23,
253:4
customs [2] - 252:24, 254:14
cut [9] - 369:4, 369:13, 369:14, 370:3,
370:6, 370:8, 370:10, 431:12, 452:16
cutting [1] - 250:10

D
D.C [1] - 270:11
Daddy [1] - 410:11
dark [3] - 246:15, 414:23, 414:24
data [5] - 253:15, 253:22, 254:3,
254:15, 256:4
database [2] - 254:7, 255:11
databases [1] - 253:18
date [28] - 254:5, 257:20, 258:6, 258:7,
258:22, 264:21, 265:25, 267:10, 268:6,
268:22, 269:19, 283:9, 289:19, 290:5,
293:12, 301:24, 305:16, 305:25,
306:15, 308:15, 309:5, 312:5, 339:9,
441:18, 444:21, 452:23, 453:15
dated [2] - 293:22, 444:19
dates [3] - 437:9, 437:13, 438:21
daughter [1] - 388:22
days [21] - 248:20, 249:19, 333:13,
333:14, 338:17, 338:19, 354:14, 357:1,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

7

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 260 of 280 PageID #: 1335

373:8, 373:11, 373:13, 374:1, 418:7,
418:16, 422:24, 436:4, 436:10, 438:22,
452:24, 453:14
DC [1] - 219:19
deal [7] - 229:3, 430:16, 431:13,
438:15, 438:16, 444:11, 446:9
dealers [2] - 394:10, 437:25
deals [4] - 248:11, 439:13, 439:14,
439:15
DEBORAH [1] - 219:24
debriefed [1] - 445:19
December [23] - 283:10, 302:8,
303:10, 305:10, 306:1, 306:2, 306:14,
306:16, 307:9, 308:15, 390:24, 438:18,
438:20, 439:2, 439:3, 441:15, 441:19,
441:20, 443:24, 451:23, 458:11, 462:8,
462:14
decent [1] - 239:18
decide [5] - 236:18, 334:16, 397:9,
422:6, 447:16
decided [5] - 242:6, 249:1, 421:8,
427:16, 428:5
decides [1] - 397:21
deciding [1] - 222:10
decision [2] - 365:20, 397:21
defend [1] - 416:4
Defendant [2] - 219:7, 219:22
defendant [41] - 222:23, 224:23,
225:4, 225:10, 227:6, 227:8, 232:4,
232:20, 233:4, 233:10, 233:13, 234:3,
234:7, 235:6, 235:9, 242:6, 242:9,
243:9, 243:11, 243:16, 243:23, 244:1,
244:4, 244:5, 244:7, 244:9, 244:10,
244:14, 244:17, 244:22, 245:2, 245:4,
245:22, 246:4, 246:7, 272:7, 284:12,
285:3, 309:15, 346:9, 346:12
Defendant's [13] - 400:16, 400:25,
401:19, 402:8, 403:3, 403:22, 404:23,
405:7, 406:7, 406:11, 407:5, 407:12,
407:21
defendant's [5] - 225:2, 226:2, 226:24,
234:25, 244:21
defendants' [1] - 245:19
defense [10] - 226:22, 226:23, 228:2,
228:8, 235:8, 235:12, 240:5, 272:4,
312:2, 346:10
definitely [1] - 457:9
Deli [1] - 408:17
deliberate [3] - 236:12, 238:20, 241:5
deliberation [1] - 241:6
deliberations [4] - 233:6, 233:11,
235:19, 237:3
deliver [1] - 351:18
deliveries [2] - 408:17, 408:19
delivery [1] - 351:17
demanded [1] - 443:25
denied [1] - 244:5
Denver [26] - 242:20, 247:14, 248:25,
263:6, 263:12, 263:18, 263:23, 272:1,
276:4, 276:24, 277:10, 289:23, 292:18,
296:4, 300:19, 301:3, 302:12, 304:2,

341:14, 441:2, 441:9, 441:13, 443:2,
443:4, 459:22
depart [1] - 262:10
departed [4] - 258:8, 259:5, 259:19,
261:13
Department [2] - 219:18, 394:5
departs [2] - 261:20, 261:21
departure [2] - 253:15, 258:19
describe [10] - 266:14, 271:9, 276:7,
283:25, 284:4, 342:20, 345:8, 357:2,
366:7, 379:6
described [2] - 311:25, 346:24
describing [3] - 227:20, 231:22, 454:6
desert [1] - 431:8
Desperate [1] - 248:7
desperately [1] - 243:15
despite [2] - 249:14, 249:21
destination [2] - 258:12, 261:25
destroy [28] - 245:2, 246:21, 246:22,
250:13, 319:3, 319:8, 319:10, 322:12,
322:16, 323:1, 323:11, 325:22, 342:6,
365:20, 365:23, 366:4, 366:18, 367:10,
379:16, 379:19, 379:23, 394:13,
416:13, 449:10, 456:2, 456:8, 459:15,
459:16
destroyed [11] - 242:9, 243:20,
318:22, 342:18, 359:6, 374:2, 394:18,
416:7, 416:10, 453:10, 456:11
destroying [12] - 243:14, 246:5,
250:22, 318:21, 319:14, 323:23,
379:14, 395:23, 396:22, 448:21, 451:8,
455:18
destruction [11] - 250:6, 416:7,
416:19, 416:21, 450:2, 450:7, 451:4,
451:20, 452:4, 454:2, 455:5
detail [1] - 445:18
detailed [3] - 232:23, 242:21, 310:4
detailing [1] - 309:23
details [2] - 251:6, 269:5
determinations [1] - 266:16
determine [2] - 236:21, 267:21
determined [2] - 264:14
developed [4] - 221:21, 221:25,
227:18, 231:20
development [1] - 222:13
different [15] - 220:15, 266:18, 270:2,
281:18, 283:16, 288:10, 288:11, 312:8,
346:23, 384:19, 400:5, 408:16, 411:4,
429:21, 451:19
differently [1] - 231:7
dip [1] - 284:25
direct [10] - 223:20, 234:24, 235:12,
283:3, 288:22, 288:23, 295:22, 346:20,
411:5, 443:7
DIRECT [9] - 252:14, 257:1, 263:1,
314:12, 325:1, 351:7, 469:3, 469:7,
469:11
directing [3] - 264:1, 288:9, 352:25
directions [1] - 284:7
directly [4] - 234:16, 249:9, 360:22,
414:25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

disagreement [2] - 239:2, 239:5
disclose [1] - 293:21
discovered [2] - 251:9, 291:23
discuss [13] - 221:24, 235:21, 235:23,
236:10, 236:11, 241:5, 293:17, 345:10,
392:10, 415:8, 450:15, 466:9, 466:15
discussed [9] - 286:11, 326:14,
326:24, 327:13, 328:20, 409:8, 445:8,
447:19, 457:22
discussing [4] - 240:3, 327:20, 371:1,
381:20
discussion [1] - 235:24
discussions [2] - 374:23, 374:24
dismiss [1] - 222:23
dispute [3] - 222:2, 227:13, 228:11
disputing [1] - 222:3
distortion [1] - 228:22
distortive [1] - 228:21
DISTRICT [2] - 219:1, 219:1
District [3] - 219:10, 222:8, 223:1
DNA [4] - 376:20, 376:21, 377:1, 377:4
document [12] - 236:21, 236:25,
238:11, 254:24, 255:1, 255:5, 395:10,
421:13, 431:25, 435:10, 445:2, 445:3
documentation [1] - 308:17
documenting [1] - 307:17
documents [6] - 254:6, 254:21,
283:15, 430:1, 446:5, 446:6
Doha [5] - 258:16, 258:19, 259:12,
259:25, 262:3
doled [1] - 276:5
dollars [5] - 334:21, 335:5, 419:9,
419:10, 419:21
done [18] - 246:19, 248:13, 251:16,
339:18, 376:17, 376:21, 435:18,
439:17, 440:14, 440:15, 440:21,
451:12, 452:7, 452:11, 454:10, 454:11,
455:17, 458:19
donot [1] - 267:17
door [11] - 221:9, 221:22, 226:22,
230:9, 231:9, 231:10, 232:1, 277:3,
367:16, 367:18
doors [1] - 223:17
dots [1] - 258:23
double [1] - 359:24
doubt [1] - 233:7
down [24] - 239:7, 241:12, 249:4,
250:10, 255:2, 293:19, 298:7, 298:9,
310:24, 317:5, 319:25, 354:24, 364:15,
367:18, 368:2, 369:5, 369:6, 369:13,
369:19, 370:3, 381:22, 452:11, 459:20
downstairs [2] - 368:8, 376:25
downtown [1] - 341:14
dragged [1] - 249:22
drain [2] - 250:10, 452:11
drains [1] - 246:1
drank [1] - 424:5
draw [1] - 432:1
drawing [2] - 440:10, 441:5
drawn [1] - 233:21
dream [1] - 248:23

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

8

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 261 of 280 PageID #: 1336

drill [1] - 466:13
drink [5] - 424:4, 433:25, 434:25,
435:24, 436:3
drinking [6] - 334:11, 334:14, 434:23,
435:8, 435:23, 435:25
drive [12] - 249:8, 353:13, 353:15,
356:17, 356:20, 372:13, 372:16,
408:19, 409:6, 427:21, 433:15
driver [5] - 248:19, 351:21, 351:22,
352:12
driving [1] - 418:13
drop [4] - 290:5, 290:6, 290:10, 417:17
dropped [1] - 422:2
drove [7] - 242:20, 275:5, 353:14,
353:16, 371:13, 371:17, 433:14
drug [7] - 247:25, 394:10, 420:15,
437:25, 462:24, 463:2, 463:7
drugs [24] - 333:6, 333:8, 334:7,
334:11, 334:12, 338:8, 338:10, 338:12,
338:18, 338:20, 378:25, 396:22,
398:15, 398:16, 419:15, 420:5, 421:22,
422:9, 423:11, 463:8, 463:22, 463:24,
465:18
duly [3] - 252:7, 262:20, 314:2
dump [2] - 371:15, 371:20
dumped [4] - 368:14, 372:19, 373:5,
374:1
dumpster [12] - 371:15, 371:20, 372:3,
372:8, 372:19, 373:5, 373:7, 373:9,
373:10, 373:15, 374:2
during [31] - 234:14, 236:13, 237:3,
237:17, 237:20, 239:7, 239:16, 240:1,
240:12, 240:14, 241:7, 245:5, 258:12,
286:15, 291:17, 297:23, 309:23,
319:19, 321:11, 321:25, 322:4, 363:2,
381:19, 383:15, 401:8, 418:13, 423:8,
435:7, 458:16, 462:13, 465:4

E
e-mail [42] - 264:6, 264:7, 264:8,
265:1, 265:5, 265:10, 265:11, 265:21,
265:23, 266:5, 266:17, 266:23, 267:6,
267:8, 268:2, 268:18, 268:19, 268:22,
268:23, 281:10, 281:13, 281:15,
281:18, 281:24, 282:3, 283:12, 283:14,
283:20, 286:7, 286:21, 287:1, 287:10,
287:11, 287:14, 288:5, 288:10, 288:11,
288:16, 289:7, 292:11, 292:13
e-mailing [1] - 241:16
e-mails [9] - 269:13, 269:16, 269:22,
288:11, 291:14, 291:17, 291:20,
291:21, 291:23
earliest [1] - 261:5
early [1] - 275:4
easel [1] - 317:4
easier [1] - 224:20
easily [1] - 285:18
East [5] - 219:14, 219:22, 220:2,
259:16, 266:13
east [1] - 272:1

EASTERN [1] - 219:1
easy [1] - 249:14
eat [1] - 353:18
educated [1] - 248:17
education [3] - 330:12, 332:20, 353:8
EDWARD [1] - 219:16
effect [2] - 228:21, 238:21
effort [4] - 229:12, 235:2, 345:21,
346:1
efforts [4] - 234:22, 251:10, 251:13,
284:24
eight [2] - 297:10, 342:1
either [9] - 231:13, 239:3, 239:11,
240:23, 241:15, 306:11, 308:2, 460:22,
461:15
elders [1] - 411:2
elements [1] - 235:17
elevator [1] - 240:17
elicit [5] - 287:24, 306:1, 345:18,
359:13, 383:10
eliminate [2] - 311:7, 437:25
Elmo [1] - 264:24
elsewhere [1] - 243:5
email [1] - 267:1
emails [1] - 269:7
emanates [1] - 220:15
emanating [1] - 240:22
emphasize [1] - 235:7
employed [1] - 351:13
employer [4] - 220:10, 220:13, 232:10
employer's [1] - 220:17
encouragement [2] - 228:23, 229:10
end [6] - 251:21, 288:22, 340:2,
340:18, 350:10, 383:22
endeavor [1] - 285:4
endeavored [1] - 285:3
enforcement [5] - 254:14, 276:14,
276:17, 276:22, 467:4
Enforcement [6] - 252:19, 252:21,
252:23, 252:25, 253:4, 253:19
enforcement's [1] - 276:23
engineer [1] - 422:2
England [3] - 261:22, 262:6, 262:7
English [5] - 248:17, 249:16, 314:18,
314:23, 432:6
entered [3] - 259:12, 297:7, 300:1
entering [1] - 254:13
entire [2] - 297:18, 309:4
entitled [1] - 468:3
entwined [1] - 226:2
equipment [1] - 243:20
Eric [1] - 262:23
especially [1] - 346:21
essentially [3] - 225:11, 346:19, 359:2
establish [1] - 381:10
estimate [1] - 275:21
evaluating [1] - 235:18
evening [5] - 239:20, 271:20, 277:15,
293:7, 466:15
events [1] - 351:11
eventually [6] - 243:5, 275:6, 292:10,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

418:8, 420:24, 421:8
everywhere [1] - 431:19
evidence [97] - 221:5, 221:9, 224:8,
229:17, 230:23, 230:24, 231:6, 234:11,
234:12, 234:14, 234:18, 234:20, 235:8,
235:18, 236:3, 236:22, 237:1, 238:4,
238:5, 238:21, 241:5, 241:6, 242:9,
242:10, 243:14, 243:22, 245:3, 245:6,
245:17, 246:5, 246:6, 246:22, 246:23,
250:1, 250:11, 250:15, 250:22, 251:23,
256:8, 256:16, 257:11, 260:4, 284:2,
284:19, 284:23, 289:16, 290:14,
291:12, 292:12, 299:4, 313:7, 316:16,
317:14, 318:5, 318:10, 322:13, 322:19,
323:4, 325:25, 326:7, 326:17, 327:2,
327:16, 327:17, 329:5, 329:13, 346:20,
360:6, 373:5, 373:7, 374:2, 394:25,
395:15, 416:7, 416:8, 416:10, 416:19,
416:21, 445:3, 448:21, 449:10, 450:2,
450:7, 451:4, 451:8, 451:9, 451:20,
452:4, 452:16, 454:1, 455:5, 456:2,
456:11, 459:4, 459:11, 467:24, 468:2
Evidence [1] - 236:22
evidentiary [3] - 238:5, 381:11, 388:23
ex [2] - 293:19, 293:24
exact [3] - 264:14, 301:24, 342:16
exactly [3] - 239:1, 300:8, 317:7
EXAMINATION [17] - 252:14, 257:1,
263:1, 295:18, 308:24, 314:12, 325:1,
351:7, 399:1, 464:13, 469:3, 469:7,
469:8, 469:9, 469:11, 469:12, 469:13
examination [7] - 221:6, 231:4,
234:24, 234:25, 235:12, 465:1, 465:13
examined [3] - 252:7, 262:20, 314:2
examining [1] - 299:13
example [1] - 245:18
exchange [1] - 250:20
exclusion [1] - 230:23
excuse [1] - 247:19
excused [5] - 262:16, 310:24, 310:25,
466:5, 466:7
executive [1] - 270:18
exhibit [9] - 224:16, 236:20, 238:3,
238:9, 260:4, 260:15, 299:5, 299:6,
440:13
Exhibit [80] - 224:17, 255:5, 255:15,
255:19, 255:24, 255:25, 256:8, 256:19,
257:11, 260:9, 260:10, 261:18, 265:20,
268:1, 268:11, 268:18, 272:13, 273:2,
273:10, 273:12, 273:16, 273:20, 274:2,
274:8, 274:12, 274:17, 282:2, 282:14,
282:21, 283:11, 283:18, 283:22, 284:5,
286:3, 286:5, 287:6, 287:13, 288:4,
289:3, 290:13, 290:20, 291:13, 302:5,
313:9, 316:16, 317:15, 318:7, 318:9,
322:13, 323:4, 326:1, 326:6, 326:18,
327:1, 327:11, 327:18, 327:24, 329:7,
329:12, 354:25, 395:4, 395:15, 400:16,
401:1, 401:19, 402:8, 403:3, 403:22,
404:23, 405:7, 406:7, 406:11, 407:6,
407:12, 407:21, 435:14, 440:7, 441:4,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

9

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 262 of 280 PageID #: 1337

445:2, 454:5
EXHIBITS [1] - 469:14
exhibits [5] - 224:19, 234:14, 256:3,
313:9, 468:2
Exhibits [9] - 257:8, 264:23, 282:17,
311:20, 311:23, 312:3, 312:6, 313:6,
322:19
exhumed [1] - 230:1
existing [1] - 254:13
exists [1] - 303:5
exiting [1] - 253:16
expense [2] - 453:5, 453:6
expenses [2] - 418:22, 464:16
expensive [1] - 249:2
explain [17] - 224:12, 253:6, 253:13,
253:17, 254:2, 257:17, 261:5, 330:9,
333:5, 334:10, 345:22, 352:14, 370:16,
386:3, 396:17, 424:18, 448:3
explained [5] - 226:22, 253:22, 265:1,
424:17, 425:5
explosive [3] - 282:5, 282:11, 284:8
explosives [3] - 284:14, 285:14,
393:23
exposed [1] - 237:12
expressed [1] - 228:6
expressing [1] - 249:18
extended [1] - 330:25
extra [1] - 418:24
eye [1] - 285:2

F
face [2] - 396:1, 449:1
facility [1] - 286:15
facing [1] - 448:17
fact [34] - 222:4, 226:24, 227:3, 227:4,
227:9, 227:13, 228:15, 233:21, 240:19,
244:6, 244:15, 269:17, 277:2, 283:12,
285:23, 346:10, 346:11, 355:18, 361:2,
367:2, 376:13, 424:10, 426:1, 426:11,
426:16, 430:9, 434:21, 434:23, 435:8,
435:23, 451:19, 452:16, 460:24, 461:25
factor [1] - 222:9
factors [1] - 346:13
facts [8] - 229:18, 231:13, 270:15,
311:6, 311:8, 311:14, 311:16, 311:17
factually [1] - 227:10
fail [1] - 240:20
failed [1] - 369:11
failure [1] - 239:4
fair [18] - 228:5, 235:2, 238:15, 268:11,
293:1, 315:5, 347:6, 380:3, 393:12,
400:2, 407:17, 420:21, 427:9, 436:7,
437:3, 438:17, 447:13, 455:14
fairness [1] - 228:12
fall [2] - 417:14, 422:20
false [4] - 228:24, 231:16, 389:2, 389:9
familiar [1] - 253:9
families [3] - 246:11, 341:17, 428:4
family [45] - 242:17, 243:17, 244:1,

244:14, 244:15, 246:12, 247:1, 247:4,
247:6, 247:8, 247:9, 247:10, 247:11,
249:1, 250:8, 250:18, 251:19, 251:20,
267:4, 267:15, 277:17, 280:3, 327:6,
330:25, 341:2, 341:4, 350:22, 352:22,
352:23, 363:8, 373:14, 374:23, 377:15,
377:21, 387:11, 399:10, 399:23, 400:5,
401:6, 419:1, 419:17, 419:24, 426:24,
427:23, 456:10
family.ifu [1] - 267:3
fan [1] - 368:15
far [4] - 234:3, 341:14, 372:12, 467:3
fast [4] - 240:3, 240:13, 242:5, 248:24
fast-forward [1] - 248:24
fasting [1] - 353:18
father [26] - 227:25, 243:10, 246:12,
251:14, 271:23, 292:5, 296:14, 296:20,
297:24, 328:14, 328:15, 333:21, 335:9,
338:21, 338:25, 339:6, 352:15, 352:16,
352:21, 384:5, 385:18, 385:19, 399:13,
410:10
father's [2] - 331:6, 336:17
father/son [3] - 221:21, 227:18, 231:20
fault [1] - 227:11
FBI [104] - 224:24, 231:22, 241:25,
242:7, 242:8, 242:9, 242:24, 243:1,
243:4, 243:15, 243:21, 243:22, 243:24,
244:5, 244:10, 244:19, 245:8, 245:23,
245:24, 246:15, 246:23, 247:2, 249:4,
249:9, 249:10, 249:11, 250:5, 253:7,
263:8, 263:10, 263:20, 269:25, 274:21,
277:10, 286:14, 296:4, 300:18, 301:3,
302:11, 304:1, 307:21, 309:11, 309:16,
310:1, 346:17, 354:4, 354:7, 355:3,
355:8, 355:13, 357:8, 357:20, 365:5,
366:19, 373:24, 374:4, 374:6, 374:11,
374:15, 374:16, 374:25, 375:7, 375:15,
376:13, 376:17, 376:23, 377:12,
377:13, 411:18, 411:20, 411:21, 412:3,
428:18, 430:15, 430:19, 430:23, 431:3,
431:6, 431:7, 431:21, 432:12, 432:13,
432:14, 432:16, 432:18, 432:20,
432:22, 433:19, 433:22, 434:6, 434:10,
434:24, 435:3, 435:7, 437:3, 441:9,
443:2, 443:18, 443:25, 444:2, 450:13,
458:17, 459:22
FBI's [3] - 242:7, 242:12, 374:8
FD [1] - 307:19
fear [1] - 251:19
fearful [1] - 310:18
February [3] - 462:4, 462:7, 462:13
fed [1] - 221:19
federal [5] - 241:16, 390:20, 390:23,
391:12, 392:7
feeding [1] - 299:6
feet [1] - 372:9
few [9] - 232:18, 241:1, 272:2, 272:10,
417:7, 417:10, 417:12, 436:10, 467:7
field [6] - 263:6, 270:18, 277:10, 296:4,
301:3, 441:9
fifteen [1] - 295:4

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

10

fifth [1] - 307:8
fighting [1] - 346:3
fights [2] - 333:7, 418:11
files [1] - 264:18
final [3] - 258:12, 261:25, 311:11
finalized [1] - 254:9
finally [1] - 270:4
financial [2] - 220:11, 220:14
findings [3] - 270:12, 270:16, 350:20
fine [2] - 232:9, 268:15
finely [1] - 389:12
finger [2] - 251:2, 432:1
fingerprints [4] - 374:19, 374:22,
376:20, 377:1
finish [2] - 288:23, 289:2
finished [7] - 309:14, 372:25, 373:3,
383:20, 417:12, 443:24, 464:3
First [1] - 320:13
first [70] - 221:1, 223:2, 223:5, 226:14,
229:5, 230:12, 232:2, 233:24, 243:18,
243:24, 247:12, 249:23, 252:1, 252:11,
257:22, 258:5, 258:14, 264:4, 264:24,
266:18, 277:8, 277:21, 279:8, 280:7,
280:8, 291:23, 296:2, 300:1, 311:3,
314:18, 320:14, 336:18, 343:13, 351:9,
356:12, 357:13, 357:14, 362:11,
362:20, 363:12, 364:6, 365:16, 368:17,
369:1, 370:25, 372:15, 375:1, 376:3,
376:25, 390:22, 390:25, 391:5, 416:6,
418:3, 420:12, 421:10, 422:2, 422:16,
422:19, 440:18, 449:25, 450:6, 450:17,
450:22, 451:3, 454:5, 459:21
firsthand [1] - 245:11
fit [1] - 233:17
five [12] - 288:25, 319:25, 335:24,
364:15, 367:18, 375:13, 385:2, 422:24,
423:5, 423:7, 431:20, 439:4
five-bedroom [1] - 431:20
five-year [1] - 423:7
flashed [1] - 243:7
Flavor [1] - 267:17
flew [2] - 356:13, 384:20
flight [17] - 254:4, 254:9, 259:4, 259:5,
259:7, 259:12, 259:20, 259:21, 259:25,
262:1, 262:5, 262:9, 289:17, 289:19,
289:21
Flight [4] - 258:9, 259:21, 261:14,
262:4
floor [1] - 367:21
flour [2] - 268:16, 269:6
flown [1] - 460:12
Flushing [5] - 290:10, 332:23, 334:5,
339:12, 417:7
flushing [1] - 330:5
fly [6] - 253:25, 261:11, 353:13,
433:13, 433:15, 460:10
flying [1] - 259:7
focus [1] - 440:11
focusing [1] - 382:12
folder [2] - 281:25, 283:5
folks [2] - 231:5, 239:18

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 263 of 280 PageID #: 1338

followed [2] - 394:1, 443:9
following [5] - 233:23, 263:22, 367:8,
412:10, 414:5
follows [3] - 252:8, 262:21, 314:3
food [7] - 351:19, 353:18, 371:21,
404:20, 442:2, 461:1, 462:16
foot [3] - 343:7, 343:9
foraging [1] - 313:20
force [2] - 253:6, 253:7
forced [1] - 247:6
forever [1] - 334:1
forget [4] - 236:8, 236:9, 238:12, 360:8
forgot [2] - 440:3, 442:7
form [2] - 235:24, 307:18
Form [1] - 307:19
formal [2] - 229:23, 350:24
formula [1] - 419:5
formulations [6] - 282:5, 282:11,
283:21, 284:7, 286:17, 288:8
Fort [2] - 307:22, 307:24
forth [4] - 237:8, 291:14, 357:10, 393:3
forty [1] - 372:16
forward [1] - 248:24
foundation [6] - 359:21, 361:2,
361:11, 379:10, 381:15, 389:8
four [15] - 243:1, 247:3, 247:24,
281:20, 315:10, 321:8, 354:7, 355:3,
373:8, 373:11, 373:13, 411:20, 420:12,
422:23, 440:7
fourteen [1] - 467:13
fourth [2] - 306:13, 307:8
framework [1] - 284:9
frankly [2] - 346:23, 389:5
frantically [1] - 242:1
fraud [11] - 222:8, 222:13, 222:16,
222:25, 226:1, 226:3, 226:7, 228:7,
229:3, 229:25, 230:10
free [10] - 311:16, 338:22, 420:14,
423:16, 427:22, 433:12, 433:18,
433:22, 433:25, 434:2
frequently [1] - 239:2
Friday [3] - 220:10, 289:18, 289:20
Fridays [1] - 330:15
friend [1] - 241:14
friendly [1] - 249:13
friends [13] - 267:4, 267:15, 269:5,
297:3, 338:21, 338:24, 339:21, 386:10,
420:13, 423:16, 426:18, 426:19
fright [1] - 362:20
front [14] - 231:1, 238:19, 244:16,
305:18, 317:3, 330:10, 330:13, 330:16,
401:20, 403:7, 405:1, 435:1, 456:25,
461:9
full [7] - 235:2, 270:4, 270:8, 270:13,
270:14, 270:23, 343:2
Fulsome [3] - 296:12, 299:20, 299:23
fun [3] - 427:12, 427:21, 434:4
furnished [2] - 462:5, 462:7
furtherance [1] - 389:1
future [1] - 427:23

11

G
game [1] - 347:6
garage [27] - 319:21, 319:24, 320:4,
320:16, 321:14, 356:22, 356:25, 357:3,
357:4, 357:8, 362:5, 362:17, 363:2,
363:10, 363:14, 363:19, 363:21, 364:8,
364:22, 365:12, 367:20, 368:17,
368:18, 380:7, 380:13, 380:21, 459:8
garbage [1] - 459:7
gate [1] - 254:10
gather [1] - 398:24
gathered [1] - 242:14
gears [1] - 351:13
gee [2] - 267:17, 269:6
generally [4] - 255:7, 284:1, 284:4,
285:12
Geneva [4] - 258:10, 258:11, 259:7,
259:22
gentleman [1] - 409:16
gentlemen [2] - 345:13, 415:8
gift [1] - 430:23
girl [1] - 402:5
girls [1] - 420:15
given [9] - 223:3, 232:2, 286:19, 299:6,
308:11, 346:11, 346:21, 424:14, 460:16
glasses [1] - 272:6
GLEESON [1] - 219:10
Gleeson [1] - 236:10
gmail [2] - 281:25, 282:3
goggles [8] - 250:6, 368:19, 368:25,
369:5, 369:18, 370:11, 371:4
going,,i [1] - 266:25
Goldsmith [5] - 233:25, 234:9, 241:1,
246:8, 311:12
GOLDSMITH [7] - 219:16, 220:19,
241:24, 311:13, 311:19, 312:8, 312:10
government [85] - 221:3, 221:8, 222:7,
223:3, 224:8, 224:12, 228:16, 228:23,
229:22, 231:9, 233:1, 233:13, 234:1,
234:2, 234:21, 235:5, 241:18, 248:1,
249:22, 252:2, 260:10, 283:22, 284:23,
287:16, 290:23, 293:20, 299:3, 311:22,
312:2, 313:8, 340:7, 346:15, 350:13,
357:20, 365:2, 370:22, 372:5, 373:20,
383:17, 392:2, 392:23, 393:2, 393:4,
393:9, 396:11, 397:13, 397:16, 397:24,
398:13, 408:15, 415:22, 415:24, 416:1,
416:6, 425:3, 426:20, 427:17, 427:18,
428:8, 428:22, 428:24, 429:4, 429:14,
430:5, 431:13, 443:7, 445:16, 446:12,
446:19, 446:24, 447:8, 449:3, 450:1,
453:5, 453:6, 455:24, 460:19, 461:25,
462:5, 462:10, 464:16, 464:18, 465:20,
465:22
Government [54] - 219:13, 224:16,
253:11, 253:14, 257:10, 260:9, 261:18,
264:23, 265:20, 268:1, 268:11, 268:18,
272:13, 273:1, 273:10, 273:16, 273:20,
274:2, 274:8, 274:12, 274:17, 282:2,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

282:13, 282:21, 283:11, 283:18, 284:5,
286:2, 286:4, 287:5, 287:13, 288:3,
289:3, 290:12, 290:20, 291:13, 302:5,
311:20, 311:23, 312:3, 312:6, 313:6,
326:1, 326:6, 326:18, 327:1, 327:11,
327:18, 327:24, 329:7, 329:12, 354:24,
445:2, 454:4
government's [8] - 233:2, 243:13,
243:18, 245:1, 245:11, 284:11, 416:18,
467:12
Government's [19] - 255:5, 255:15,
255:19, 255:24, 255:25, 256:7, 256:19,
313:9, 316:16, 317:15, 318:7, 318:9,
322:13, 322:19, 323:4, 395:4, 395:15,
435:14, 440:7
grade [1] - 417:12
graduates [1] - 270:3
Graham [2] - 296:12, 299:24
grand [44] - 244:16, 244:20, 245:18,
318:21, 323:24, 325:3, 325:4, 325:12,
326:24, 327:14, 327:20, 328:5, 328:20,
328:22, 359:8, 377:8, 377:9, 377:16,
384:4, 384:16, 384:24, 385:5, 385:10,
387:10, 387:19, 387:25, 388:16,
388:18, 389:2, 389:11, 389:12, 389:17,
390:2, 390:4, 390:13, 395:23, 424:6,
424:7, 424:14, 425:2, 425:15, 425:23,
426:6, 456:9
grandmother [4] - 336:1, 338:21,
338:25, 339:6
granted [1] - 350:15
gray [4] - 272:6, 342:22, 343:11, 344:5
great [1] - 312:9
greater [3] - 224:15, 238:3, 238:22
greazer [4] - 342:11, 342:12, 344:7,
344:8
green [1] - 429:18
greeting [1] - 364:15
grist [1] - 241:6
ground [1] - 223:20
group [1] - 330:13
Group [1] - 253:5
Guardia [1] - 289:22
guess [4] - 226:4, 251:12, 300:11,
380:17
guidance [1] - 226:4
guilty [34] - 232:25, 233:1, 233:8,
245:13, 246:7, 250:21, 250:22, 250:23,
251:8, 251:23, 284:18, 302:21, 304:9,
304:10, 306:20, 315:19, 315:22,
315:23, 318:18, 323:23, 394:22,
394:23, 395:19, 395:21, 396:1, 439:25,
444:23, 444:24, 444:25, 452:24,
453:14, 461:7, 461:16, 463:2
gun [4] - 386:17, 386:23, 387:4,
426:21
guy [7] - 251:16, 318:15, 330:24,
337:20, 337:22, 339:21, 340:7
guys [6] - 316:9, 336:10, 354:7,
439:19, 439:22, 444:9

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 264 of 280 PageID #: 1339

H
Hadis [11] - 336:10, 336:11, 336:15,
336:18, 336:22, 336:25, 338:1, 338:4,
339:16, 340:5, 340:13
hafiz [1] - 267:5
half [7] - 255:2, 329:24, 339:25, 343:8,
369:19, 370:20, 372:15
handcuffs [1] - 460:12
handled [1] - 386:16
hands [1] - 343:4
handwriting [3] - 374:12, 374:15,
375:2
handwritten [2] - 282:4, 284:6
hang [1] - 423:21
hanging [1] - 426:5
happy [2] - 226:19, 450:23
hard [4] - 240:3, 240:13, 248:18,
439:22
hard-and-fast [2] - 240:3, 240:13
harder [1] - 243:14
HARRIS [74] - 219:22, 219:24, 246:10,
247:22, 257:13, 322:2, 326:8, 327:3,
329:14, 343:10, 343:21, 345:5, 345:9,
346:19, 350:8, 350:12, 356:4, 358:10,
359:15, 359:18, 359:20, 359:23, 360:4,
360:12, 360:21, 361:1, 361:4, 361:9,
366:23, 378:19, 379:9, 379:25, 380:18,
381:3, 381:9, 381:14, 382:15, 382:19,
384:8, 387:22, 388:6, 388:12, 389:5,
390:8, 395:16, 398:24, 399:2, 400:25,
402:7, 402:12, 403:21, 405:7, 406:10,
406:20, 407:11, 411:1, 414:3, 415:6,
415:18, 415:20, 415:21, 425:1, 428:7,
428:11, 432:3, 435:13, 440:4, 443:1,
444:17, 454:8, 464:6, 464:9, 466:4,
468:5
Harris [8] - 234:1, 234:8, 246:9,
251:25, 398:23, 415:5, 464:10, 467:21
hashish [5] - 338:11, 338:14, 422:14,
422:15, 423:13
head [1] - 443:22
headquarters [3] - 270:11, 270:20,
270:21
hear [30] - 223:20, 231:10, 233:24,
233:25, 234:8, 234:9, 234:13, 236:19,
237:13, 238:1, 238:8, 245:8, 245:10,
245:20, 245:22, 245:24, 246:16, 247:1,
247:11, 248:14, 249:12, 250:8, 250:11,
251:5, 251:6, 267:14, 315:1, 321:3,
363:4, 414:16
heard [14] - 226:8, 236:2, 247:25,
350:9, 359:2, 362:9, 375:25, 414:10,
428:24, 429:2, 430:5, 430:14, 465:1,
468:4
hearing [3] - 237:14, 359:16
hearsay [3] - 359:10, 359:24, 388:12
heater [3] - 342:13, 344:8, 344:10
Heathrow [1] - 261:22
heavy [1] - 249:16

help [17] - 250:13, 316:5, 316:11,
337:7, 337:15, 338:1, 340:10, 366:4,
401:16, 433:10, 435:10, 447:13,
447:15, 447:16, 449:3, 455:19, 456:2
helped [17] - 247:24, 248:2, 315:24,
316:20, 317:9, 323:11, 325:18, 325:22,
337:5, 339:15, 340:13, 399:21, 434:19,
455:7, 455:16, 455:18, 460:3
helping [5] - 250:23, 299:16, 342:6,
448:23, 456:9
hence [1] - 240:12
hereby [1] - 239:24
hero [1] - 378:25
herself [1] - 220:15
hi [2] - 239:21, 240:16
hidden [2] - 297:16, 298:23
hide [9] - 245:2, 247:10, 250:13,
343:19, 344:15, 345:21, 346:1, 427:3
hiding [1] - 246:4
high [5] - 417:4, 417:9, 417:10, 417:22
High [2] - 264:2, 417:7
Hill [4] - 266:13, 271:23, 341:7, 341:9
himself [13] - 234:7, 235:9, 249:17,
296:23, 320:15, 358:6, 359:3, 362:7,
362:19, 363:3, 380:7, 432:2, 435:16
hint [1] - 224:5
hold [8] - 224:3, 228:4, 233:20,
236:14, 246:3, 291:8, 311:4, 317:18
home [22] - 343:17, 343:18, 344:18,
363:9, 366:10, 368:7, 370:21, 371:18,
372:8, 372:14, 372:20, 372:22, 375:5,
375:6, 401:14, 404:11, 418:20, 421:3,
421:5, 431:5, 464:19
homes [1] - 247:6
Honor [73] - 220:19, 222:6, 224:15,
225:13, 225:22, 226:3, 226:16, 226:17,
226:21, 227:16, 229:7, 230:2, 241:24,
247:21, 252:12, 254:20, 256:7, 256:15,
272:11, 279:4, 282:8, 285:7, 287:7,
290:23, 293:15, 295:6, 295:9, 295:11,
299:2, 303:13, 308:23, 310:23, 311:2,
311:13, 311:19, 313:13, 314:11,
316:23, 317:13, 317:20, 317:22,
329:13, 343:10, 345:5, 350:7, 350:12,
351:5, 383:13, 388:12, 395:1, 395:14,
398:18, 401:3, 401:19, 402:8, 403:21,
404:24, 406:10, 406:12, 406:20,
407:11, 407:13, 415:20, 428:7, 428:15,
440:4, 440:9, 464:12, 467:3, 467:14,
467:19, 467:22, 468:5
Honor's [1] - 226:13
HONORABLE [1] - 219:10
hook [1] - 340:9
hope [3] - 448:6, 448:8, 448:10
hopes [1] - 245:14
hoping [7] - 360:10, 430:12, 431:12,
431:16, 431:21, 433:10, 448:11
hotel [18] - 385:4, 387:14, 391:21,
392:1, 392:3, 392:5, 392:7, 392:22,
439:17, 441:17, 441:18, 453:3, 458:14,
459:22, 460:6, 460:24, 461:18, 464:16

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

12

hour [8] - 243:1, 247:3, 319:24,
370:20, 372:15, 372:17, 373:10
hours [14] - 248:20, 271:20, 275:4,
276:5, 277:15, 297:11, 297:12, 297:13,
300:21, 300:22, 301:6, 344:4, 374:8
house [89] - 246:1, 247:16, 250:7,
277:3, 319:16, 319:22, 321:19, 323:21,
325:6, 325:8, 325:11, 326:11, 326:14,
330:21, 330:22, 330:23, 336:17, 340:4,
342:5, 342:8, 344:2, 344:5, 345:21,
346:1, 351:12, 354:17, 359:5, 363:8,
364:2, 364:5, 364:11, 365:7, 366:11,
367:15, 368:17, 370:17, 371:10,
372:10, 372:12, 373:25, 374:7, 375:1,
377:24, 378:6, 378:10, 380:4, 380:10,
380:17, 380:22, 380:24, 381:2, 381:13,
381:19, 382:2, 382:4, 382:6, 382:8,
382:24, 391:8, 391:16, 391:18, 391:22,
401:6, 401:16, 405:14, 406:3, 408:16,
411:13, 416:14, 416:22, 421:11,
421:12, 421:14, 421:17, 427:24, 429:7,
429:11, 430:22, 431:18, 431:19,
431:20, 432:15, 443:15, 451:11, 457:5,
459:19
household [3] - 347:6, 419:6, 462:20
houses [1] - 366:20
hundred [1] - 275:21
hung [1] - 425:23
hurt [1] - 425:11
husband [4] - 274:20, 323:17, 352:8,
416:14
Hussain [1] - 342:3
hydrogen [1] - 285:21

I
idea [16] - 363:13, 367:1, 371:3,
380:14, 391:11, 412:2, 430:13, 434:6,
434:8, 436:12, 436:13, 439:12, 441:16,
453:25, 459:1, 459:13
identification [12] - 255:4, 255:14,
255:18, 255:25, 256:19, 260:9, 290:16,
317:15, 318:6, 326:18, 395:3, 435:12
identified [2] - 255:12, 274:1
identify [3] - 266:20, 272:5, 273:25
identifying [2] - 242:25, 272:7
identities [1] - 386:9
ignore [2] - 239:20, 240:17
Ilene [7] - 220:16, 220:22, 232:7,
238:13, 240:21, 313:22, 466:11
image [1] - 286:17
imaged [1] - 286:17
imagine [1] - 249:2
immediately [1] - 269:17
immigration [12] - 221:14, 221:16,
222:8, 226:1, 226:3, 226:6, 228:7,
229:3, 229:25, 230:10, 254:14, 264:18
Immigration [5] - 252:18, 252:20,
252:23, 252:24, 253:4
important [12] - 234:10, 234:18, 238:4,
238:25, 240:9, 240:25, 241:3, 241:17,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 265 of 280 PageID #: 1340

241:18, 397:6
impression [2] - 227:9, 372:6
in. [1] - 364:17
inappropriateness [1] - 240:7
inbound [4] - 253:15, 256:1, 257:21,
261:3
incarcerated [1] - 351:9
include [1] - 237:9
incorrect [2] - 227:10, 346:14
incur [1] - 229:9
incurred [1] - 228:9
indeed [1] - 233:6
INDEX [1] - 469:1
indicate [5] - 257:23, 261:16, 283:14,
312:5, 312:12
indicated [6] - 258:18, 261:18, 262:6,
266:19, 280:8, 398:5
indicating [2] - 258:5, 343:7
indicating) [1] - 343:6
indicted [1] - 222:7
individual [7] - 255:9, 259:6, 264:8,
266:21, 272:14, 276:21, 309:7
individuals [3] - 254:18, 258:25,
259:20
industries [1] - 254:8
inevitable [1] - 239:16
inference [1] - 233:21
informal [1] - 229:24
informant [2] - 430:19, 437:22
informants [1] - 243:4
information [36] - 241:7, 241:9,
241:20, 249:7, 249:20, 253:17, 253:22,
253:23, 253:24, 254:2, 254:5, 254:7,
254:10, 254:12, 255:11, 257:7, 257:17,
259:17, 264:12, 266:4, 266:7, 270:3,
271:11, 271:15, 276:20, 293:21, 364:4,
392:14, 394:5, 396:25, 429:3, 444:6,
464:21, 464:23, 466:14
informed [2] - 222:7, 234:6
ingredients [1] - 245:25
initial [3] - 270:24, 271:10, 277:14
innocence [1] - 233:9
innocent [3] - 233:5, 233:14, 233:15
innocently [1] - 236:6
innocuous [1] - 240:22
input [1] - 312:2
inquire [3] - 252:12, 314:9, 351:5
INS [2] - 222:18, 252:22
inserting [1] - 229:16
inside [11] - 324:3, 357:5, 357:11,
367:17, 368:24, 369:4, 369:24, 370:24,
412:7, 421:5
insisting [1] - 244:11
inspection [2] - 236:23, 237:3
installment [3] - 229:4, 229:5
instinct [1] - 226:15
instruction [2] - 285:6, 288:8
instructions [7] - 232:18, 232:23,
235:17, 235:18, 236:4, 242:22, 288:16
insufficiently [1] - 350:22
intend [10] - 221:11, 223:10, 223:17,

225:23, 226:4, 228:17, 228:19, 231:2,
231:23, 313:14
intense [2] - 247:2, 247:8
intent [2] - 228:23, 228:25
intention [1] - 246:25
interaction [1] - 298:24
interest [2] - 236:16, 276:23
interested [1] - 411:21
interlinked [1] - 230:11
International [15] - 258:8, 258:10,
258:11, 258:17, 258:19, 259:8, 259:12,
259:13, 259:22, 259:25, 260:1, 261:13,
261:14, 261:21
international [1] - 263:16
INTERPRETER [1] - 353:9
interpreter [2] - 314:20, 315:2
interpreters [2] - 220:23, 220:24
interrupted [1] - 223:23
interrupting [1] - 231:17
interview [38] - 224:24, 277:4, 277:9,
277:11, 277:14, 277:15, 280:10, 296:2,
296:17, 297:14, 297:18, 297:23,
300:18, 300:21, 300:23, 301:5, 301:7,
302:11, 303:1, 303:3, 303:5, 303:9,
304:1, 305:4, 305:7, 305:9, 306:4,
306:10, 306:13, 307:5, 307:21, 307:23,
308:2, 308:7, 309:4, 310:19, 429:24,
435:7
interviewed [10] - 277:5, 295:22,
300:15, 300:25, 301:22, 302:8, 302:14,
304:11, 307:8, 415:23
interviewing [1] - 247:3
interviews [12] - 243:23, 281:3, 281:8,
295:25, 301:9, 301:17, 307:17, 308:14,
309:19, 309:22, 309:24, 310:16
intricately [1] - 226:2
introduce [7] - 221:5, 223:10, 224:8,
232:1, 279:5, 299:4, 405:7
introduced [3] - 438:25, 440:1, 455:21
introduction [1] - 406:10
investigating [1] - 354:4
investigation [56] - 225:17, 229:1,
229:12, 243:13, 243:18, 244:4, 245:1,
245:9, 245:12, 246:21, 251:7, 264:2,
264:4, 264:19, 264:21, 265:12, 267:19,
269:8, 269:14, 269:24, 270:4, 270:5,
270:6, 270:8, 270:13, 270:22, 270:23,
270:24, 271:1, 271:5, 271:6, 271:7,
271:10, 271:16, 271:19, 274:22, 275:1,
275:20, 275:24, 275:25, 276:7, 276:10,
276:13, 284:13, 285:5, 292:18, 292:20,
293:12, 301:12, 301:15, 346:17,
355:13, 365:5, 433:12, 447:11
investigations [6] - 253:8, 270:1,
270:14, 275:15, 275:17, 292:7
investigative [3] - 292:19, 292:24,
293:1
invite [2] - 237:13, 313:20
involved [9] - 241:10, 264:2, 264:4,
274:21, 275:3, 308:10, 312:12, 450:1,
450:7

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

13

involving [1] - 389:6
IP [5] - 264:13, 264:15, 266:4, 271:11,
286:25
irrelevant [1] - 291:2
Islamic [4] - 330:11, 330:12, 353:8,
353:11
issue [10] - 220:9, 223:2, 223:3, 223:6,
225:23, 228:11, 231:12, 264:16,
350:10, 389:7
items [2] - 370:12, 462:20
itself [2] - 225:7, 239:15

J
jacket [1] - 272:6
jail [20] - 248:9, 250:24, 251:3, 398:6,
398:8, 398:10, 439:11, 439:24, 448:13,
448:18, 448:24, 460:22, 461:15,
461:22, 463:12, 463:22, 465:9, 465:14,
465:16
Jaji [10] - 247:12, 247:13, 247:22,
250:18, 274:20, 312:24, 458:10, 467:5,
467:9, 467:15
Jaji's [1] - 250:7
January [11] - 222:19, 258:16, 258:23,
259:10, 395:20, 444:19, 444:24, 445:1,
452:21, 453:1, 453:17
Jason [2] - 430:10
Jason's [1] - 408:17
Jergenson [11] - 283:5, 283:19, 284:4,
285:13, 288:3, 290:18, 291:7, 291:12,
292:19, 309:1, 309:18
Jersey [1] - 258:9
JFK [6] - 258:17, 258:20, 259:13,
261:14, 261:21, 262:3
JG [1] - 219:3
jihad [1] - 346:23
Jihadi [6] - 344:21, 344:23, 345:7,
345:22, 386:5
job [33] - 236:16, 236:17, 236:21,
237:5, 263:25, 351:14, 351:16, 351:20,
352:3, 352:9, 352:11, 372:25, 373:3,
383:17, 392:24, 408:24, 422:1, 423:17,
427:16, 427:18, 427:24, 428:21,
429:13, 430:12, 432:17, 433:2, 433:15,
433:16, 446:19, 451:12, 465:5, 465:7
jobs [4] - 247:6, 351:13, 427:19, 430:5
JOHN [2] - 219:10, 350:16
John [1] - 350:16
Joint [1] - 253:4
joint [1] - 253:6
judge [20] - 245:4, 396:12, 397:3,
397:9, 397:10, 397:23, 446:17, 446:21,
446:23, 447:1, 447:4, 447:16, 447:18,
448:6, 448:8, 448:10, 461:9, 463:13,
463:16, 463:18
Judge [6] - 219:10, 236:9, 265:16,
285:9, 400:14, 464:9
juga [1] - 443:9
July [4] - 219:7, 293:22, 463:13, 468:7

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 266 of 280 PageID #: 1341

jumped [1] - 422:7
June [4] - 261:20, 450:2, 451:6, 451:14
junior [4] - 417:4, 417:9, 417:22
Jurgenson [2] - 262:23, 265:11
juror [5] - 220:15, 232:7, 232:9,
238:23, 238:24
juror's [1] - 238:22
JURORS [1] - 232:16
jurors [4] - 236:6, 239:1, 239:2, 241:16
jury [90] - 219:11, 221:23, 224:4,
224:13, 225:4, 226:10, 227:4, 227:8,
228:17, 229:11, 229:17, 229:19, 231:1,
232:11, 233:5, 233:20, 238:22, 239:12,
240:1, 241:20, 244:16, 244:20, 245:18,
252:16, 254:2, 257:17, 261:5, 265:18,
283:4, 284:1, 295:14, 299:4, 307:14,
315:21, 316:24, 318:21, 319:19,
323:24, 324:2, 324:3, 325:3, 325:4,
325:12, 326:24, 327:14, 327:20, 328:5,
328:20, 328:22, 333:5, 340:1, 347:4,
352:14, 357:2, 359:8, 366:8, 377:8,
377:9, 377:16, 384:4, 384:16, 384:24,
385:5, 385:10, 387:10, 387:20, 388:1,
388:16, 388:18, 389:2, 389:11, 389:12,
389:17, 390:2, 390:5, 390:13, 395:23,
415:15, 424:7, 424:15, 425:2, 425:15,
425:23, 426:6, 428:12, 444:16, 449:9,
451:10, 456:9
Jury [7] - 232:13, 293:18, 345:14,
351:3, 415:9, 415:16, 466:17
juryroom [1] - 466:11
Justice [1] - 219:18
justice [10] - 232:22, 232:23, 233:18,
245:5, 246:25, 248:13, 249:23, 284:13,
284:24, 285:4
JUSTINE [1] - 219:24

K
Kabul [1] - 244:12
Karachi [1] - 261:15
keep [8] - 230:1, 237:15, 237:18,
250:19, 328:4, 393:2, 439:19, 451:1
keeping [1] - 325:6
kept [7] - 228:6, 231:15, 253:10,
414:23, 414:24, 421:1, 438:17
Khadija [6] - 327:10, 341:21, 341:22,
342:3, 406:18, 407:6
Khan [1] - 291:14
khow [1] - 267:17
kid's [1] - 370:19
kids [3] - 341:24, 400:1, 409:6
kill [9] - 320:14, 357:12, 358:9, 359:3,
362:7, 362:18, 364:7, 414:15
killing [3] - 358:6, 363:3, 380:7
kind [19] - 230:18, 240:2, 241:9,
263:19, 320:12, 333:8, 334:12, 338:10,
344:13, 344:20, 351:24, 365:10, 367:6,
368:20, 378:25, 430:12, 430:21, 446:16
kinds [3] - 270:8, 270:12, 457:22
kitchen [2] - 343:12, 344:11

knife [3] - 369:15, 369:16, 370:9
knock [1] - 367:16
knocking [1] - 277:3
knowing [1] - 244:24
knowledge [6] - 259:15, 297:20,
301:11, 346:11, 365:4, 368:22
known [3] - 276:14, 346:25, 426:16
knows [2] - 248:3, 436:16
Kubra [5] - 325:9, 325:17, 378:8,
378:9, 383:8

L
labels [1] - 456:16
ladies [2] - 345:13, 415:8
Lahore [1] - 386:2
Lai [1] - 352:17
Lai's [1] - 352:20
laid [1] - 389:8
Lal [4] - 331:2, 333:21, 336:1, 336:17
Lal's [1] - 331:5
landed [1] - 259:13
language [6] - 264:9, 269:9, 314:18,
410:6, 429:25, 431:2
laptop [3] - 242:21, 286:16, 299:6
large [1] - 330:13
last [21] - 241:1, 277:14, 279:5,
285:23, 300:21, 301:5, 304:15, 304:17,
305:14, 308:7, 308:9, 308:15, 395:6,
398:7, 398:8, 435:14, 444:15, 453:22,
463:15, 463:16
lasted [1] - 277:15
lastly [1] - 240:25
late [3] - 229:6, 271:20, 365:9
laundry [3] - 369:7, 369:25
law [10] - 236:4, 247:14, 248:25,
251:19, 276:14, 276:17, 276:21,
276:23, 449:5, 467:4
LAW [1] - 314:4
law-enforcement [1] - 467:4
lawfully [1] - 311:22
lawyer [18] - 236:15, 249:9, 296:25,
299:22, 308:11, 309:14, 408:15,
415:22, 416:1, 424:14, 424:17, 426:20,
444:7, 445:8, 447:20, 448:15, 460:16,
463:25
lawyers [11] - 234:16, 235:10, 235:12,
235:15, 236:13, 236:14, 240:5, 296:9,
296:17, 425:3, 458:3
lawyers' [2] - 234:19, 236:3
lay [6] - 359:21, 361:2, 361:11, 379:10,
381:4, 381:15
leader [2] - 243:25, 249:24
leading [1] - 390:16
learn [7] - 292:10, 292:12, 292:17,
336:24, 337:22, 373:9, 455:13
learned [13] - 243:6, 243:11, 246:14,
249:4, 354:4, 355:11, 359:4, 374:3,
409:22, 411:18, 411:21, 455:10, 455:12
learning [1] - 362:18

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

14

least [5] - 284:16, 371:21, 439:4,
440:21, 449:20
leave [9] - 227:4, 310:15, 339:7,
345:12, 353:1, 353:13, 418:18, 418:22,
466:9
leaves [5] - 293:18, 345:14, 345:16,
415:9, 466:17
leaving [4] - 261:14, 289:21, 289:22,
384:1
lecture [2] - 335:9, 335:11
led [2] - 231:19, 265:12
left [16] - 227:9, 246:2, 258:21, 258:23,
286:12, 332:24, 333:5, 334:6, 340:6,
340:7, 344:2, 354:3, 354:13, 367:15,
371:13, 467:2
leg [1] - 258:14
legal [6] - 227:21, 228:16, 229:15,
229:16, 229:24, 231:24
legally [4] - 227:17, 228:17, 229:20,
229:21
less [3] - 238:25, 249:2, 455:20
lesser [1] - 245:14
letter [16] - 279:2, 350:17, 396:12,
396:13, 396:15, 397:2, 397:4, 397:6,
397:10, 397:13, 397:16, 431:1, 446:20,
447:7, 447:10, 447:16
level [2] - 270:1, 359:25
Liberty [1] - 258:8
library [5] - 429:6, 429:20, 429:21,
429:22, 430:3
lie [22] - 229:10, 231:24, 242:8, 244:7,
244:15, 244:18, 245:2, 246:23, 246:24,
248:8, 250:17, 323:24, 388:18, 389:7,
394:20, 425:7, 426:9, 437:1, 438:3,
452:7, 452:14, 456:4
lied [31] - 242:7, 243:23, 243:24,
244:7, 318:21, 324:3, 328:7, 328:18,
393:20, 394:1, 394:8, 419:25, 420:3,
424:7, 426:13, 426:20, 434:14, 435:24,
437:3, 437:10, 437:13, 437:14, 437:15,
437:17, 440:20, 443:8, 443:11, 443:14,
455:3, 455:24
lies [12] - 244:21, 249:23, 250:2,
250:3, 251:1, 251:20, 424:6, 425:21,
426:23, 437:19, 443:17
life [6] - 247:7, 248:21, 249:2, 249:3,
266:25, 433:22
likely [4] - 262:1, 262:2, 266:16, 308:9
limiting [1] - 285:6
line [1] - 266:2
lines [1] - 288:9
link [1] - 250:16
linked [1] - 230:21
liquid [4] - 343:19, 343:24, 344:6,
344:12
list [4] - 223:3, 433:15, 433:16, 467:10
listed [3] - 257:19, 259:17, 313:9
listen [9] - 250:1, 251:17, 267:16,
311:15, 358:3, 381:24, 382:21, 455:25
listening [6] - 305:1, 306:8, 357:8,
357:17, 357:19, 380:15

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 267 of 280 PageID #: 1342

litigate [2] - 229:20, 231:14
litigation [1] - 228:10
live [20] - 248:23, 315:13, 331:3, 332:8,
332:11, 332:16, 332:20, 332:21,
333:20, 334:2, 335:25, 339:11, 341:6,
341:19, 376:7, 427:25, 428:2, 431:16,
431:18, 433:22
lived [15] - 221:12, 221:19, 247:14,
280:11, 341:10, 342:4, 399:5, 399:10,
399:13, 399:17, 400:6, 405:14, 420:14,
458:11
living [19] - 242:16, 242:18, 244:9,
264:8, 266:20, 271:22, 272:2, 321:1,
343:25, 354:17, 367:18, 368:8, 390:25,
391:6, 401:9, 404:7, 404:9, 407:2,
462:2
LLP [1] - 219:22
locate [1] - 299:16
located [2] - 272:1, 286:16
location [2] - 290:8, 290:10
locker [1] - 297:8
loft [1] - 255:20
look [15] - 240:9, 240:11, 250:1,
254:23, 264:17, 298:2, 304:17, 305:11,
307:11, 313:19, 342:21, 429:22,
437:20, 438:5, 444:15
Look [1] - 320:12
looked [3] - 286:18, 288:7, 342:22
looking [12] - 241:8, 246:15, 249:4,
276:14, 276:17, 310:9, 354:7, 355:4,
411:19, 412:3, 454:5, 466:13
looks [2] - 283:15, 467:4
LORETTA [1] - 219:13
lose [1] - 446:15
lost [2] - 242:9, 247:6
loud [5] - 357:23, 357:24, 358:1,
430:25, 437:12
love [1] - 421:14
loved [2] - 241:14, 454:20
low [1] - 317:5
lowest [1] - 397:14
lunch [1] - 345:10
Luncheon [2] - 347:10, 349:1
lying [11] - 243:13, 246:5, 323:24,
327:13, 328:5, 328:20, 359:8, 389:11,
395:23, 443:19
LYNCH [1] - 219:13

M
ma'am [1] - 399:7
mail [43] - 264:6, 264:7, 264:8, 265:1,
265:5, 265:10, 265:11, 265:21, 265:23,
266:5, 266:17, 266:23, 267:6, 267:8,
268:2, 268:18, 268:19, 268:22, 268:23,
281:10, 281:13, 281:15, 281:18,
281:24, 282:3, 283:12, 283:14, 283:20,
286:7, 286:21, 286:22, 287:1, 287:10,
287:11, 287:14, 288:5, 288:10, 288:11,
288:16, 289:7, 292:11, 292:13

mailed [1] - 267:2
mailing [1] - 241:16
mails [10] - 269:13, 269:16, 269:22,
288:10, 288:11, 291:14, 291:17,
291:20, 291:21, 291:23
maintained [1] - 297:8
maintains [1] - 253:14
man [5] - 242:6, 242:12, 243:24,
245:23, 299:19
management [1] - 270:18
manifest [1] - 254:8
manner [1] - 230:22
manufacture [1] - 284:7
marijuana [7] - 333:9, 333:12, 334:13,
398:17, 417:22, 422:13, 434:2
mark [2] - 257:24, 258:18
marked [47] - 255:4, 255:14, 255:18,
255:24, 256:11, 256:18, 260:21,
264:23, 272:13, 273:1, 273:9, 273:15,
273:24, 274:10, 274:14, 274:19,
282:13, 283:2, 283:18, 286:2, 287:5,
288:2, 289:3, 289:13, 290:12, 290:16,
291:4, 299:10, 317:24, 318:6, 318:13,
326:10, 327:5, 329:16, 395:3, 395:18,
401:5, 401:18, 402:11, 403:2, 403:25,
404:22, 405:11, 406:6, 406:23, 407:16,
454:4
marking [1] - 258:21
marriage [2] - 268:16, 269:10
married [1] - 331:14
Marriott [3] - 385:4, 387:15, 388:20
Marrus [5] - 262:13, 398:22, 450:9,
450:18, 451:14
MARRUS [90] - 219:16, 252:2, 252:12,
252:15, 254:20, 254:25, 255:21, 256:7,
256:15, 257:2, 257:10, 257:15, 260:3,
260:14, 260:17, 262:12, 311:2, 313:13,
314:9, 314:11, 314:13, 315:8, 316:14,
316:23, 317:1, 317:3, 317:7, 317:8,
317:13, 317:20, 318:2, 318:5, 318:9,
325:2, 325:24, 326:6, 326:16, 327:1,
327:17, 329:5, 329:12, 343:7, 345:20,
345:25, 346:3, 346:7, 346:10, 351:5,
351:8, 359:2, 359:11, 359:13, 359:17,
360:8, 360:15, 360:19, 360:24, 362:4,
372:1, 381:16, 381:18, 382:1, 383:13,
383:14, 388:14, 388:21, 388:25, 389:3,
389:11, 389:15, 394:25, 395:14,
398:18, 398:21, 401:3, 402:9, 403:23,
405:9, 406:12, 406:21, 407:13, 412:5,
412:11, 413:3, 413:6, 449:22, 464:12,
464:14, 465:25, 466:2
marshals [1] - 295:10
Marten [8] - 252:16, 253:9, 255:1,
256:12, 256:18, 257:17, 260:6, 261:23
Martin [2] - 252:3, 252:10
Marzia [1] - 331:17
masjid [1] - 330:1
mask [12] - 250:6, 250:11, 368:19,
369:1, 369:2, 369:9, 369:11, 369:12,
369:13, 369:14, 370:11, 371:4

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

15

masks [1] - 368:25
materials [1] - 285:24
matter [4] - 228:12, 240:22, 253:10,
350:22
matters [1] - 220:21
mean [24] - 221:15, 223:12, 234:18,
290:14, 306:1, 322:11, 330:9, 330:12,
334:10, 338:12, 339:6, 357:16, 361:1,
365:15, 366:14, 372:16, 379:20, 384:7,
392:12, 396:17, 396:20, 396:23, 426:2,
450:3
meaning [3] - 224:13, 225:14, 276:13
means [5] - 233:16, 236:23, 238:9,
262:16, 432:15
meant [2] - 345:22, 364:25
measure [2] - 368:19, 369:7
measures [1] - 359:18
measuring [4] - 368:25, 369:6, 369:22,
369:23
mechanic [3] - 356:17, 356:19, 358:4
media [7] - 243:6, 247:4, 276:24,
277:2, 350:17, 444:7, 467:23
medical [2] - 338:11, 338:12
medicine [8] - 365:17, 366:11, 366:14,
367:2, 367:6, 449:17, 452:3
Medunjanin [4] - 255:17, 257:6,
259:18, 275:18
meet [8] - 387:10, 392:7, 393:4, 430:7,
430:9, 445:21, 455:8, 457:14
meeting [34] - 326:11, 326:23, 327:13,
327:20, 328:19, 359:8, 382:2, 382:4,
382:6, 382:8, 383:15, 383:22, 390:22,
390:25, 391:5, 391:12, 393:2, 430:11,
436:12, 438:17, 441:2, 441:8, 441:12,
441:15, 450:9, 451:22, 452:2, 452:10,
453:9, 454:14, 454:17, 455:1, 458:16,
459:21
meetings [9] - 390:19, 436:8, 436:13,
436:15, 436:17, 438:24, 439:5, 447:1,
456:21
MELISSA [1] - 219:16
member [3] - 240:1, 244:23, 247:4
members [15] - 243:7, 243:17, 244:14,
244:15, 247:9, 247:10, 247:12, 250:8,
250:18, 251:20, 319:19, 327:6, 387:10,
467:22
members.take [1] - 267:4
men [6] - 242:14, 242:18, 243:2, 243:3,
244:3, 317:10
mens [1] - 228:25
mention [3] - 237:16, 240:15, 330:21
mentioned [11] - 245:21, 317:9,
326:13, 328:5, 337:14, 341:22, 365:4,
368:16, 370:1, 373:6, 391:25
mentioning [1] - 358:2
merely [1] - 221:24
merged [1] - 252:22
message [3] - 265:10, 283:7, 283:9
messages [6] - 264:6, 264:9, 265:1,
265:5, 265:11, 282:1
messenger [1] - 321:20

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 268 of 280 PageID #: 1343

met [22] - 242:15, 393:8, 393:12,
393:14, 426:6, 426:11, 434:14, 435:2,
436:4, 436:6, 436:10, 437:13, 438:22,
442:1, 449:20, 450:15, 452:1, 452:21,
453:23, 457:11, 457:17, 457:19
Mets [1] - 240:10
Mexican [1] - 249:8
Middle [1] - 259:16
middle [5] - 223:23, 259:3, 405:3,
410:7, 417:16
midnight [1] - 418:20
midst [1] - 244:18
might [16] - 224:20, 237:9, 248:4,
251:11, 431:10, 431:13, 432:19,
435:10, 443:16, 448:17, 450:20,
453:11, 457:25, 458:3, 462:23, 467:8
Mike [5] - 428:5, 428:18, 430:6, 430:9,
430:10
military [1] - 429:14
milk [1] - 419:5
mill [1] - 241:6
mind [3] - 229:21, 236:1, 250:19
mine [3] - 227:12, 329:20, 371:5
minimum [2] - 237:18, 449:3
minor [1] - 225:22
minute [2] - 364:20, 464:6
Minutes [1] - 220:4
minutes [17] - 268:12, 288:21, 293:16,
295:4, 319:25, 320:19, 341:15, 364:16,
364:20, 367:18, 367:20, 371:13,
372:16, 372:17, 375:13, 415:10
minutes' [1] - 372:13
mirror [1] - 254:1
miscommunications [1] - 250:3
misimpression [1] - 227:4
misplaced [1] - 467:11
Miss [8] - 234:8, 285:8, 287:20, 415:5,
450:9, 450:17, 451:14, 464:10
mission [2] - 414:11, 414:13
misunderstandings [1] - 250:3
misunderstood [1] - 381:16
mix [1] - 238:5
mixing [1] - 267:16
mixture [1] - 282:11
mixtures [3] - 269:6, 269:16, 282:5
model [1] - 409:4
modern [1] - 253:20
Mohammad [9] - 271:7, 271:8, 272:4,
274:11, 292:5, 331:2, 333:21, 336:1,
352:17
Mohammad's [1] - 336:17
Mohammed [39] - 227:24, 228:2,
232:20, 242:6, 246:13, 248:14, 266:15,
273:11, 291:21, 291:24, 292:2, 292:5,
292:10, 292:12, 293:9, 296:14, 296:16,
296:20, 297:24, 298:24, 299:14,
299:19, 299:25, 301:9, 309:15, 313:1,
352:6, 373:24, 384:20, 384:22, 384:23,
402:1, 408:12, 409:2, 409:13, 410:4,
411:8, 449:10, 458:3
MOHAMMED [1] - 219:6

moment [6] - 299:3, 398:18, 398:24,
440:4, 456:4, 465:25
money [31] - 334:25, 335:20, 338:20,
338:23, 338:24, 339:2, 339:3, 339:5,
401:14, 402:19, 418:22, 419:6, 419:12,
419:15, 419:22, 419:25, 420:2, 420:7,
420:10, 420:16, 420:17, 420:22, 428:2,
428:3, 428:25, 429:3, 431:21, 432:12,
461:22, 461:25, 462:22
monitoring [1] - 307:3
monologue [1] - 221:6
month [4] - 339:25, 450:4
months [13] - 247:15, 247:18, 292:18,
333:19, 333:23, 335:17, 417:7, 417:11,
417:12, 421:12, 422:23, 422:24
morning [29] - 220:9, 221:4, 223:8,
224:2, 225:24, 232:14, 232:16, 239:20,
241:25, 246:10, 252:4, 252:16, 263:3,
263:4, 275:4, 288:20, 295:20, 295:21,
340:8, 342:9, 343:15, 343:16, 350:11,
365:16, 367:8, 367:10, 375:2, 418:18,
466:15
mosque [7] - 243:25, 330:2, 330:4,
330:6, 330:8, 330:11, 330:14
most [12] - 222:12, 222:17, 231:9,
234:10, 258:3, 333:13, 333:14, 338:17,
338:19, 396:4, 397:17, 418:7
mostly [1] - 423:21
motel [2] - 391:25, 392:21
mother [15] - 271:23, 273:19, 332:13,
333:21, 333:22, 338:21, 338:25, 376:9,
399:15, 399:22, 416:15, 416:16, 416:17
motive [4] - 228:22, 229:1, 229:2,
229:16
move [14] - 238:12, 249:1, 286:4,
329:12, 340:23, 341:4, 376:3, 391:15,
402:7, 403:21, 405:7, 406:10, 406:20,
407:11
moved [9] - 222:23, 341:19, 391:8,
391:17, 391:22, 391:23, 391:25, 404:4,
405:25
movie [1] - 378:13
moving [2] - 268:22, 317:19
MR [20] - 220:19, 241:24, 311:13,
311:19, 312:8, 312:10, 322:2, 351:1,
379:9, 380:18, 381:3, 381:9, 382:15,
382:19, 387:22, 388:12, 389:5, 428:11,
440:4, 468:5
MS [261] - 220:20, 221:1, 221:16,
221:18, 222:3, 222:14, 222:16, 222:19,
222:22, 222:25, 223:2, 223:7, 223:10,
223:13, 223:22, 223:25, 224:6, 224:15,
224:20, 225:13, 225:19, 225:22, 226:9,
226:10, 226:16, 226:21, 227:16,
227:24, 228:14, 229:7, 230:2, 230:6,
230:9, 230:14, 230:16, 230:20, 231:3,
231:17, 232:6, 246:10, 247:21, 247:22,
252:2, 252:12, 252:15, 254:20, 254:25,
255:21, 256:7, 256:9, 256:15, 257:2,
257:10, 257:13, 257:15, 260:3, 260:14,
260:17, 260:19, 262:12, 262:15, 263:2,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

16

265:14, 265:16, 265:18, 272:9, 272:11,
272:18, 272:20, 272:22, 273:6, 273:7,
273:12, 273:13, 273:20, 273:21,
277:22, 277:25, 279:4, 279:8, 279:12,
282:6, 282:8, 282:21, 282:24, 283:17,
283:22, 283:23, 285:7, 285:9, 285:11,
287:16, 287:19, 287:22, 288:21,
288:25, 289:9, 289:11, 290:16, 290:23,
291:1, 291:5, 291:9, 293:14, 295:4,
295:6, 295:9, 295:11, 295:16, 295:19,
299:2, 299:8, 301:20, 302:3, 303:12,
308:20, 308:23, 308:25, 310:7, 310:20,
310:23, 311:2, 313:13, 314:9, 314:11,
314:13, 315:8, 316:14, 316:23, 317:1,
317:3, 317:7, 317:8, 317:13, 317:20,
317:22, 318:2, 318:5, 318:9, 318:11,
325:2, 325:24, 326:6, 326:8, 326:16,
327:1, 327:3, 327:17, 329:5, 329:12,
329:14, 343:7, 343:10, 343:21, 345:5,
345:9, 345:20, 345:25, 346:3, 346:7,
346:10, 346:19, 350:7, 350:8, 350:12,
350:13, 351:5, 351:8, 356:4, 358:10,
359:2, 359:11, 359:13, 359:15, 359:17,
359:18, 359:20, 359:23, 360:4, 360:8,
360:12, 360:15, 360:19, 360:21,
360:24, 361:1, 361:4, 361:9, 362:4,
366:23, 372:1, 378:19, 379:25, 381:14,
381:16, 381:18, 382:1, 383:13, 383:14,
384:8, 388:6, 388:14, 388:21, 388:25,
389:3, 389:11, 389:15, 390:8, 394:25,
395:14, 395:16, 398:18, 398:21,
398:24, 399:2, 400:25, 401:3, 402:7,
402:9, 402:12, 403:21, 403:23, 405:7,
405:9, 406:10, 406:12, 406:20, 406:21,
407:11, 407:13, 411:1, 412:5, 412:11,
413:3, 413:6, 414:3, 415:6, 415:18,
415:20, 415:21, 425:1, 428:7, 432:3,
435:13, 443:1, 444:17, 449:22, 454:8,
464:6, 464:9, 464:12, 464:14, 465:25,
466:2, 466:4, 467:3, 467:7, 467:13,
467:17, 467:19, 467:22
muddy [1] - 344:13
MUhammad [1] - 266:25
Mujahideen [1] - 346:4
multiple [1] - 442:1
Murwari [18] - 274:5, 325:10, 327:10,
327:12, 342:3, 343:18, 354:19, 363:25,
372:21, 376:16, 377:19, 378:9, 384:19,
387:18, 388:2, 388:8, 388:21, 389:17
Murwayi [3] - 400:12, 402:5, 403:11
music [4] - 357:9, 357:23, 358:1, 358:3
Muslim [1] - 330:11
Muslims [2] - 412:10, 414:5
must [1] - 233:5

N
Naim [1] - 220:24
najib [1] - 269:2
Najib [11] - 340:5, 362:13, 362:14,
363:22, 378:17, 388:1, 389:21, 390:14,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 269 of 280 PageID #: 1344

393:10, 395:22, 396:21
Najiba [5] - 325:22, 331:2, 333:22,
335:10, 336:1
Najibullah [170] - 224:7, 224:9, 224:11,
224:23, 225:9, 242:13, 242:16, 242:19,
243:2, 243:10, 243:11, 243:20, 244:2,
244:9, 245:9, 246:1, 246:17, 247:14,
247:16, 248:1, 248:2, 250:23, 255:10,
257:5, 257:19, 258:7, 266:21, 266:22,
267:25, 270:25, 271:5, 271:6, 271:15,
271:18, 271:22, 272:3, 272:15, 272:24,
273:18, 274:6, 274:15, 275:5, 275:8,
275:12, 275:16, 276:9, 276:17, 277:5,
277:12, 277:14, 277:17, 280:2, 281:3,
281:14, 281:15, 286:11, 292:1, 293:4,
293:10, 295:22, 296:6, 296:17, 297:10,
297:20, 297:23, 299:16, 299:22,
299:25, 300:15, 302:15, 312:14,
315:23, 316:5, 316:13, 316:19, 317:9,
318:25, 319:4, 325:18, 327:7, 327:10,
331:12, 336:7, 336:15, 336:18, 336:25,
338:1, 338:4, 339:16, 340:11, 340:14,
341:20, 342:3, 342:7, 343:19, 344:17,
345:20, 351:20, 351:22, 353:1, 353:10,
353:25, 354:3, 354:4, 354:13, 355:4,
355:5, 355:12, 355:18, 356:6, 357:6,
357:12, 358:5, 358:8, 359:3, 359:5,
360:8, 360:12, 360:17, 360:22, 360:25,
362:7, 362:11, 362:14, 362:18, 362:25,
363:1, 363:3, 364:1, 364:5, 378:18,
380:7, 380:17, 385:21, 388:18, 393:17,
393:22, 400:8, 400:21, 401:22, 402:23,
403:17, 404:16, 405:5, 405:21, 406:4,
408:24, 411:19, 411:21, 412:3, 414:11,
425:24, 426:3, 426:16, 426:25, 427:6,
434:16, 434:19, 438:25, 440:1, 440:25,
448:23, 455:7, 455:10, 455:20, 455:21,
458:24, 460:3
Najibullah's [15] - 242:17, 242:25,
243:19, 244:24, 245:24, 246:13, 251:8,
274:11, 274:20, 286:7, 296:20, 342:6,
347:5, 386:10, 459:8
najibzazi@yahoo.com [2] - 289:5,
289:15
Najim [1] - 355:16
name [23] - 248:16, 252:9, 252:10,
252:11, 254:5, 262:22, 266:21, 314:4,
314:6, 318:8, 330:21, 331:16, 362:12,
409:18, 409:22, 410:1, 410:7, 410:10,
410:11, 411:2, 411:3, 450:12
named [3] - 242:13, 243:24, 292:1
names [5] - 296:12, 341:23, 362:12,
386:9, 411:4
Naqib [70] - 247:12, 247:13, 247:17,
247:22, 248:5, 250:7, 250:18, 250:21,
274:20, 312:20, 312:24, 319:22,
319:23, 320:3, 321:13, 321:17, 321:19,
323:15, 325:10, 325:17, 325:22,
329:20, 340:6, 341:16, 352:8, 352:9,
357:12, 358:8, 359:3, 359:5, 362:6,
362:21, 362:23, 363:9, 363:16, 363:17,
363:18, 364:21, 365:8, 367:17, 368:7,

368:12, 371:2, 374:6, 375:9, 377:19,
379:20, 380:20, 384:20, 392:13,
414:10, 414:22, 414:23, 414:25, 415:2,
416:24, 417:1, 439:20, 458:10, 458:21,
458:22, 467:5, 467:9, 467:15
Naqib's [16] - 247:16, 326:14, 359:5,
363:21, 364:2, 364:5, 367:15, 372:12,
380:4, 380:17, 388:22, 416:18, 416:22,
443:15, 451:11, 457:5
Nasir [1] - 220:24
National [1] - 263:15
national [1] - 275:1
nature [4] - 264:18, 269:11, 271:12,
346:17
nearby [2] - 304:23, 307:1
necessary [2] - 237:19, 456:7
Nedunjanin [1] - 292:16
need [24] - 223:7, 228:11, 233:14,
239:9, 266:25, 267:3, 267:16, 269:17,
270:6, 270:9, 270:12, 284:21, 301:15,
311:7, 315:2, 420:16, 420:17, 427:23,
429:15, 429:16, 430:4, 450:20
needed [9] - 242:4, 243:15, 298:5,
408:19, 420:7, 428:3, 433:4, 433:8,
467:25
Neener [6] - 428:5, 428:18, 430:9,
465:2, 465:4, 465:7
neighborhood [1] - 420:14
nephew [4] - 244:8, 247:23, 249:24,
250:9
net [1] - 450:17
never [21] - 233:2, 236:14, 237:2,
243:22, 244:13, 329:1, 373:10, 373:20,
386:22, 393:20, 399:24, 426:6, 426:13,
429:10, 429:18, 430:25, 455:23, 459:19
nevertheless [1] - 249:21
NEW [1] - 219:1
New [63] - 219:5, 219:15, 219:23,
220:2, 220:14, 242:2, 242:20, 246:17,
246:19, 247:15, 248:19, 253:3, 258:9,
258:17, 259:13, 262:3, 269:21, 274:25,
275:3, 275:6, 275:13, 275:15, 275:22,
275:23, 276:21, 276:25, 286:12,
289:22, 293:10, 308:8, 308:11, 336:14,
339:17, 340:23, 346:13, 346:25,
354:23, 355:19, 355:24, 356:3, 356:7,
356:13, 360:13, 377:10, 392:18,
392:20, 405:12, 405:16, 424:12,
433:14, 439:14, 441:24, 451:22,
451:24, 453:1, 460:10, 460:16, 460:24,
463:10
Newark [4] - 258:8, 258:9, 259:6,
260:1
news [5] - 378:14, 378:16, 378:18,
379:1, 379:3
Newsday [1] - 350:16
newspaper [2] - 241:11, 241:12
next [33] - 237:21, 243:23, 256:22,
259:2, 262:18, 278:3, 279:14, 280:13,
295:5, 303:15, 305:9, 311:1, 313:13,
324:4, 344:7, 347:8, 353:21, 358:13,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

17

361:12, 367:9, 371:23, 378:4, 400:19,
400:21, 401:22, 403:11, 410:12,
412:13, 413:9, 424:19, 441:17, 442:9,
466:19
nice [2] - 232:14, 466:14
nickname [1] - 410:10
night [7] - 247:5, 343:15, 376:13,
466:16, 467:18, 467:19, 468:6
nine [4] - 263:11, 283:15, 283:16,
342:1
nineties [1] - 229:6
Nissan [1] - 408:21
njbzaz [2] - 266:12, 291:15
njbzaz@yahoo.com [6] - 265:22,
265:24, 266:22, 267:9, 268:3, 290:19
nobody [4] - 340:20, 358:3, 431:6,
436:16
nobody's [1] - 436:13
noises [1] - 357:24
none [5] - 229:23, 248:4, 271:17,
436:13
note [1] - 291:5
noted [1] - 220:8
notes [14] - 238:14, 238:15, 238:18,
239:6, 239:12, 282:4, 284:6, 285:19,
285:23, 286:6, 286:18, 286:22, 466:11
notetaker [1] - 238:23
Nothing [1] - 390:11
nothing [17] - 246:11, 250:5, 325:14,
378:23, 379:8, 383:16, 383:18, 384:4,
384:6, 384:10, 389:20, 448:8, 448:10,
452:12, 456:3, 461:24, 466:4
notice [2] - 346:20, 346:24
notified [1] - 264:5
notion [1] - 223:16
November [7] - 428:8, 437:8, 437:10,
437:11, 449:20, 453:22, 453:23
nowhere [2] - 392:6, 459:18
nuances [1] - 249:18
number [26] - 259:7, 260:16, 267:19,
267:22, 269:15, 298:11, 298:15, 299:5,
307:18, 309:18, 312:13, 312:15,
312:17, 312:19, 312:21, 312:23,
312:25, 313:2, 313:4, 327:18, 327:24,
329:7, 435:12, 449:24, 462:25, 467:4
number.if [1] - 267:1
numbers [2] - 312:12, 439:6
NW [1] - 219:19
NYPD [3] - 242:24, 244:1, 437:23

O
o'clock [5] - 343:14, 345:11, 365:15,
374:19, 375:7
oath [8] - 234:23, 235:11, 425:13,
425:17, 425:19, 449:9, 451:10, 461:11
object [11] - 236:13, 236:14, 236:17,
282:24, 283:23, 287:22, 291:1, 291:6,
314:25, 350:18
objected [3] - 236:18, 238:2, 238:9

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 270 of 280 PageID #: 1345

objected-to [1] - 238:2
objection [77] - 226:9, 236:15, 236:20,
237:5, 237:7, 238:1, 238:4, 238:8,
256:9, 257:12, 260:15, 260:18, 265:15,
272:8, 272:22, 273:7, 273:13, 273:21,
277:22, 277:24, 279:13, 282:6, 282:9,
282:23, 283:23, 285:6, 287:17, 287:25,
289:10, 289:11, 290:25, 301:20, 310:7,
317:21, 318:11, 322:2, 326:8, 327:3,
329:14, 343:21, 345:5, 345:9, 346:18,
356:4, 358:10, 359:14, 359:22, 360:5,
360:9, 361:10, 366:23, 378:19, 379:9,
379:25, 380:18, 381:3, 381:7, 381:9,
382:15, 382:19, 383:9, 383:12, 384:8,
387:22, 388:6, 388:11, 389:13, 390:8,
395:16, 401:2, 402:9, 403:23, 405:9,
406:21, 412:5, 412:11, 413:2
objections [1] - 360:3
obligation [2] - 234:4, 235:7
obligations [3] - 445:13, 445:16, 455:2
observe [1] - 344:17
obstruct [7] - 229:1, 229:12, 232:22,
243:13, 245:11, 284:24, 285:4
obstructed [2] - 243:17, 284:12
obstructing [4] - 232:22, 244:25,
246:25, 249:23
obstruction [5] - 245:5, 246:20,
346:16, 448:18, 448:20
obtain [1] - 255:11
obtained [3] - 256:4, 286:14, 311:22
obvious [3] - 238:19, 238:25, 284:16
obviously [3] - 270:17, 284:16, 314:21
obviousness [1] - 347:5
occasion [2] - 419:19, 443:2
occasions [1] - 442:2
occurred [3] - 229:3, 441:12, 441:15
OCR [1] - 220:1
October [2] - 243:16, 261:8
OF [2] - 219:1, 219:3
offenses [1] - 232:21
offer [18] - 256:7, 257:10, 265:14,
272:19, 273:12, 273:20, 282:21,
283:22, 284:23, 287:16, 289:9, 290:23,
318:9, 326:6, 327:1, 337:7, 395:14,
432:17
offered [4] - 273:6, 306:22, 360:6,
361:8
offering [2] - 279:11, 287:18
offers [2] - 236:25, 313:8
office [26] - 253:3, 263:6, 264:5, 264:6,
265:2, 270:19, 274:25, 277:10, 296:4,
296:6, 300:18, 301:3, 302:11, 302:14,
304:1, 307:21, 374:4, 374:8, 374:15,
375:7, 376:13, 376:24, 377:12, 377:13,
441:9, 445:4
officer [1] - 463:6
offices [2] - 274:21, 274:24
Official [1] - 220:1
official [3] - 239:8, 239:13, 264:19
often [4] - 333:12, 338:14, 338:16,
393:4

oil [2] - 267:17, 268:17
old [14] - 244:12, 247:24, 315:9, 329:1,
329:3, 332:5, 333:10, 341:25, 375:19,
376:5, 384:2, 385:1, 385:2, 419:1
older [2] - 407:24, 409:4
oldest [3] - 331:10, 331:24, 410:9
once [6] - 254:8, 276:9, 330:22,
381:10, 401:13, 437:6
one [80] - 223:15, 225:22, 225:25,
226:15, 231:15, 234:24, 234:25, 235:4,
235:10, 236:9, 238:19, 238:22, 239:14,
239:17, 240:5, 240:11, 240:23, 241:14,
244:8, 245:21, 247:19, 249:7, 249:24,
251:22, 253:18, 255:21, 257:8, 259:2,
265:5, 267:16, 269:15, 272:21, 272:22,
281:25, 282:15, 286:4, 287:11, 288:13,
292:7, 297:23, 308:9, 311:4, 312:1,
316:9, 316:20, 318:1, 323:1, 323:11,
326:13, 326:16, 329:5, 339:21, 340:3,
342:9, 346:23, 360:5, 372:24, 382:23,
388:19, 398:24, 419:19, 425:2, 426:25,
427:14, 430:22, 431:7, 440:13, 440:24,
441:4, 443:2, 448:5, 452:2, 455:4,
455:7, 455:21, 456:21, 464:6, 467:1
One [1] - 318:5
one-day [1] - 467:1
one-way [1] - 249:7
ones [1] - 285:16
ongoing [1] - 229:13
onward [2] - 262:1, 262:10
Open [5] - 280:1, 295:1, 350:2, 362:1,
414:1
open [14] - 220:8, 221:9, 222:9, 231:2,
231:10, 264:19, 275:15, 301:15,
344:14, 344:16, 368:15, 381:17,
389:14, 415:12
opened [11] - 223:18, 264:21, 270:13,
271:1, 271:5, 271:6, 271:7, 292:8,
301:12, 346:10, 367:16
opening [15] - 220:18, 230:9, 231:8,
232:1, 233:24, 234:2, 234:4, 234:11,
234:17, 234:19, 241:2, 241:22, 270:6,
292:18, 352:4
openings [1] - 234:21
opens [2] - 221:22, 226:22
operate [1] - 310:13
Operation [1] - 264:2
operational [1] - 276:4
opinions [2] - 235:24, 235:25
opium [2] - 338:11, 338:16
opponent [1] - 225:1
opportunity [5] - 234:4, 234:8, 234:19,
235:7, 235:9
opposed [2] - 229:24, 354:1
option [2] - 225:6, 234:25
Orbitz [2] - 289:17, 289:24
order [11] - 239:22, 239:24, 240:15,
240:18, 269:18, 269:24, 270:13,
284:22, 293:20, 293:25, 347:9
original [2] - 259:5, 268:19
originally [1] - 222:22

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

18

Osman [10] - 341:22, 370:15, 370:16,
370:19, 371:6, 371:15, 372:18, 373:6,
406:15, 407:6
Osman's [1] - 371:4
ought [6] - 236:19, 236:22, 238:15,
238:18, 284:16, 307:14
outbound [10] - 255:8, 255:16, 255:17,
255:22, 257:22, 258:2, 258:8, 261:3,
261:7, 261:21
outfit [1] - 403:9
outside [13] - 240:6, 240:8, 277:3,
357:10, 369:24, 400:1, 421:2, 421:4,
421:6, 426:5, 439:19, 439:20
overnight [1] - 466:12
overrule [1] - 238:1
overruled [23] - 225:21, 282:10, 291:3,
291:10, 301:21, 310:8, 322:3, 343:22,
356:5, 360:6, 361:10, 366:24, 380:1,
382:20, 383:9, 383:12, 384:9, 389:13,
390:9, 407:14, 412:6, 413:8, 449:23
Overruled [3] - 378:20, 380:19, 387:23
overseas [16] - 316:1, 331:4, 332:15,
335:10, 340:2, 386:24, 393:10, 418:10,
421:11, 421:13, 422:6, 422:10, 427:23,
429:8, 429:14
overt [1] - 276:13
overwhelming [1] - 247:2
owe [1] - 221:24
own [15] - 220:17, 246:16, 247:13,
248:6, 249:10, 251:3, 319:10, 323:25,
351:22, 354:1, 399:24, 399:25, 400:4,
408:7, 409:9

P
pace [1] - 276:7
page [30] - 237:21, 256:22, 278:3,
279:14, 280:13, 287:20, 294:1, 303:15,
304:15, 305:14, 305:18, 324:4, 347:8,
358:13, 361:12, 371:23, 395:6, 410:12,
412:13, 413:9, 424:19, 435:14, 440:7,
440:13, 441:4, 442:9, 444:15, 448:1,
454:5, 466:19
Pages [1] - 347:9
pages [1] - 283:15
paid [12] - 391:25, 392:22, 402:21,
430:19, 432:18, 460:6, 460:10, 461:1,
462:5, 462:16, 462:18, 462:20
painful [1] - 247:1
pair [1] - 250:6
Pakistan [62] - 242:14, 243:2, 244:9,
248:1, 249:7, 261:15, 262:2, 266:11,
287:4, 314:17, 315:11, 315:12, 331:4,
331:19, 331:23, 332:15, 333:4, 333:16,
333:18, 333:20, 334:16, 334:19,
335:12, 335:20, 335:23, 336:5, 336:7,
336:16, 336:19, 338:7, 339:7, 339:15,
339:24, 385:22, 386:10, 388:1, 399:6,
399:10, 400:23, 401:12, 402:13, 404:1,
405:25, 417:14, 421:9, 422:5, 422:12,
422:13, 422:22, 423:2, 423:8, 423:11,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 271 of 280 PageID #: 1346

423:17, 425:24, 426:2, 426:3, 437:17,
439:17, 448:23, 458:19, 458:25
Pakistani [1] - 261:13
papers [2] - 398:24, 459:15
paragraph [7] - 304:17, 312:1, 440:10,
441:5, 447:25, 454:6, 454:7
Paragraph [1] - 311:20
paragraphs [1] - 447:22
parcel [1] - 229:12
pardon [1] - 344:22
parents [10] - 271:23, 328:9, 331:1,
332:13, 336:2, 338:23, 375:20, 384:2,
385:11, 422:11
parse [1] - 389:12
part [14] - 228:18, 229:11, 231:24,
238:5, 263:24, 298:19, 305:13, 313:16,
319:17, 356:21, 359:7, 379:11, 380:12,
446:9
parte [2] - 293:19, 293:24
participants [1] - 239:17
participated [6] - 245:9, 245:12,
301:17, 305:9, 308:14, 308:18
particular [7] - 233:8, 254:18, 255:9,
261:2, 261:3, 263:14, 264:16
parties [1] - 311:8
parts [2] - 344:24, 345:1
party [3] - 225:1, 225:15, 330:23
Pashto [2] - 314:19, 410:6
pass [2] - 313:15, 313:17
passenger [1] - 259:17
Passengers [1] - 253:21
password [1] - 281:21
past [1] - 462:25
patience [3] - 237:17, 237:20, 362:3
pause [1] - 313:23
Pause [14] - 232:8, 232:12, 295:13,
304:18, 398:20, 432:8, 435:19, 440:6,
440:16, 441:6, 444:18, 448:2, 454:9,
464:8
pay [2] - 438:11, 461:22
paying [3] - 438:12, 453:7, 464:16
peculiar [1] - 269:19
pen [2] - 258:4, 268:14
penalties [1] - 396:1
pencil [1] - 258:4
pending [1] - 222:9
Pennsylvania [1] - 219:19
penny [1] - 248:16
people [45] - 239:24, 240:12, 240:23,
241:10, 242:8, 245:12, 246:22, 246:24,
253:16, 266:20, 272:2, 272:3, 275:15,
276:3, 284:18, 292:1, 292:8, 316:20,
319:10, 319:11, 323:1, 323:11, 323:25,
324:1, 325:4, 330:11, 330:14, 336:9,
355:25, 356:6, 360:13, 365:10, 378:10,
380:3, 382:12, 383:10, 410:8, 410:9,
426:11, 429:23, 444:6, 444:7, 464:21,
464:23
per [1] - 418:16
percolation [1] - 222:17
perfectly [1] - 249:16

perhaps [2] - 412:9, 414:4
period [7] - 401:8, 409:8, 409:22,
423:7, 423:8, 427:5, 458:16
permission [5] - 298:5, 316:14,
316:23, 467:23, 467:25
permit [2] - 356:1, 356:8
permitted [2] - 229:22, 231:14
peroxide [1] - 285:21
perplexed [1] - 236:25
person [5] - 266:14, 323:20, 326:23,
382:22, 382:25
personally [1] - 361:6
pertained [1] - 384:13
pertaining [1] - 384:12
Peshawar [1] - 315:12
pharmaceutical [2] - 338:12, 338:18
pharmaceuticals [1] - 423:25
pharmacies [2] - 285:17, 285:25
phone [32] - 267:1, 267:18, 267:19,
267:21, 299:13, 299:14, 310:10,
310:14, 310:17, 312:13, 312:15,
312:17, 312:19, 312:21, 312:23,
312:25, 313:2, 313:4, 355:23, 361:5,
366:19, 375:4, 409:13, 411:13, 427:13,
428:8, 429:5, 429:9, 429:10, 429:12,
429:24, 436:7
phones [3] - 243:4, 310:15, 366:21
photograph [3] - 276:22, 405:1,
406:15
photographs [5] - 272:10, 273:22,
316:24, 325:24, 467:24
photos [1] - 468:1
physical [1] - 236:20
physically [1] - 366:5
pick [8] - 290:6, 290:8, 355:23, 365:17,
370:18, 370:20, 371:6, 427:13
pickup [1] - 290:4
picture [20] - 272:23, 329:5, 329:8,
354:24, 400:17, 400:23, 401:6, 402:13,
402:15, 403:3, 404:1, 405:12, 406:7,
406:24, 407:6, 407:9, 407:17, 407:21,
407:25
pictures [6] - 354:8, 355:3, 355:6,
355:8, 355:12, 411:20
pieces [5] - 369:13, 370:3, 370:10,
371:1, 371:3
pissed [5] - 320:12, 388:2, 388:5,
389:25, 390:13
pizza [1] - 442:4
place [15] - 224:7, 224:22, 242:4,
284:22, 296:2, 300:18, 302:11, 304:1,
306:14, 307:21, 307:23, 431:16,
431:18, 441:2, 441:9
placed [3] - 234:23, 235:11, 240:19
places [1] - 232:25
plan [3] - 250:14, 334:1, 367:9
plane [1] - 334:18
planning [3] - 227:2, 269:12, 363:3
plans [1] - 242:25
plastic [6] - 368:21, 370:13, 370:14,
372:18, 373:6

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

19

play [3] - 231:1, 299:4, 428:8
playing [1] - 467:7
plays [2] - 299:11, 428:16
Plaza [2] - 219:14, 220:2
plea [2] - 398:3, 452:24
plead [7] - 315:18, 318:18, 394:23,
395:19, 395:21, 439:25, 444:24
pleading [1] - 394:22
pled [21] - 232:24, 245:13, 250:21,
250:22, 251:8, 284:18, 302:21, 304:9,
304:10, 306:20, 315:21, 315:23,
323:23, 396:1, 444:23, 444:25, 453:14,
461:7, 461:16, 463:2
plez [1] - 268:15
plot [12] - 242:4, 243:12, 244:25,
245:1, 245:11, 246:19, 246:21, 251:6,
251:7, 251:9, 301:12, 346:25
plus [4] - 395:23, 398:15, 430:5,
465:17
plz [4] - 267:3, 267:17, 269:5, 269:6
PM [1] - 269:1
podium [1] - 234:17
point [30] - 225:17, 231:8, 235:4,
235:6, 235:14, 237:4, 239:9, 274:21,
297:23, 298:11, 309:8, 332:1, 334:15,
339:3, 340:17, 340:23, 344:12, 360:21,
360:23, 364:16, 364:19, 368:9, 372:6,
377:4, 378:14, 379:3, 379:13, 414:7,
435:15, 460:2
pointed [1] - 320:1
pointing [3] - 251:2, 267:12, 269:4
police [1] - 390:12
Police [1] - 394:5
polite [2] - 249:13, 298:21
poorly [1] - 248:16
popular [1] - 330:24
portion [4] - 226:5, 309:1, 309:4,
350:14
pose [2] - 414:2, 432:10
position [3] - 252:24, 263:19, 365:11
possibility [2] - 310:19, 448:15
possible [6] - 229:16, 230:22, 238:13,
238:14, 437:16, 454:25
possibly [2] - 225:19, 454:25
post [2] - 276:4, 276:6
posture [1] - 388:23
pot [1] - 343:25
poured [1] - 452:11
pouring [1] - 250:10
practiced [1] - 458:8
preaches [1] - 405:17
preaching [3] - 353:9, 353:11, 386:4
precious [1] - 244:20
precise [1] - 258:3
precisely [2] - 239:3, 239:10
precluded [1] - 226:4
preclusion [1] - 350:21
prefer [1] - 226:10
preference [1] - 226:12
preflight [1] - 223:16
prejudice [3] - 228:8, 347:1, 347:3

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 272 of 280 PageID #: 1347

preliminarily [1] - 236:2
preliminary [4] - 232:18, 235:25,
270:4, 311:17
premarked [1] - 400:16
prepared [3] - 309:22, 310:5, 312:2
presence [4] - 237:9, 237:14, 359:12,
361:7
present [16] - 232:13, 235:7, 295:14,
303:9, 314:21, 346:21, 351:3, 354:18,
362:6, 363:23, 378:5, 387:17, 388:7,
415:16, 453:12, 454:18
preserved [1] - 279:13
press [1] - 257:23
pressing [1] - 289:1
pressure [4] - 247:2, 247:8, 248:5,
248:11
presumed [2] - 233:5, 233:15
presumption [1] - 233:9
pretty [2] - 418:2, 427:11
previous [1] - 428:7
previously [3] - 282:1, 283:24, 291:12
primary [2] - 253:18, 253:24
prime [2] - 242:12, 243:12
Princeton [1] - 220:14
principle [1] - 233:18
prison [2] - 460:14, 463:18
private [2] - 321:5, 402:17
probation [1] - 463:6
probative [1] - 347:2
probe [1] - 220:16
problem [3] - 232:4, 247:25, 390:15
problems [2] - 462:24, 463:8
proceed [5] - 233:23, 234:21, 235:10,
295:16, 415:18
proceedings [2] - 239:9, 446:7
Produced [1] - 220:4
promise [1] - 249:3
promised [2] - 446:18, 453:19
promises [1] - 449:6
promptly [1] - 466:9
pronunciation [1] - 406:18
proof [1] - 455:20
proposed [2] - 223:3, 228:1
proposes [1] - 224:8
prosecutors [10] - 234:22, 234:24,
235:4, 235:13, 240:5, 451:22, 452:22,
453:23, 457:12, 457:15
protect [1] - 319:9
protected [1] - 426:23
protecting [2] - 236:16, 387:9
protection [1] - 387:1
protective [2] - 293:20, 359:18
protects [1] - 233:10
prove [6] - 233:14, 233:15, 234:20,
234:22, 245:6, 383:17
proved [3] - 311:6, 311:9, 311:16
proven [1] - 233:8
provide [2] - 389:2, 392:14
provided [6] - 249:20, 281:22, 394:4,
396:25, 464:21, 464:23
proving [2] - 232:25, 346:15

provisions [1] - 445:10
publicized [1] - 277:1
publish [7] - 257:15, 265:18, 302:3,
303:12, 313:14, 316:14, 316:24
published [1] - 428:12
pulled [1] - 254:10
purchase [1] - 285:17
purchased [2] - 285:18, 285:24
purpose [1] - 311:10
purposes [2] - 285:1, 311:16
pursuant [1] - 394:23
push [2] - 255:3, 305:15
pushed [1] - 455:16
put [36] - 228:16, 239:22, 241:12,
242:24, 243:1, 247:2, 251:19, 253:24,
260:7, 268:8, 272:16, 272:17, 283:4,
357:10, 357:24, 358:3, 369:24, 370:13,
370:15, 370:21, 370:23, 371:3, 371:11,
373:6, 419:4, 419:11, 426:25, 439:17,
439:23, 439:24, 441:17, 441:18,
459:22, 460:22, 460:24, 464:16
putting [5] - 268:1, 268:18, 283:11,
291:20, 456:24

Q
Qaeda [22] - 242:15, 244:24, 248:3,
315:24, 316:2, 316:5, 316:21, 318:16,
319:1, 325:19, 338:4, 339:16, 395:22,
426:7, 426:11, 427:1, 438:25, 440:2,
455:8, 455:21, 460:4, 464:23
Qatar [8] - 258:9, 258:17, 259:13,
259:15, 259:21, 260:1, 262:3, 262:4
Quantico [1] - 263:22
quarters [7] - 343:1, 420:12, 420:18,
420:23
quasi [4] - 228:10, 229:16, 229:21,
239:13
quasi-official [1] - 239:13
Queda [2] - 337:6, 337:7
Queens [14] - 242:18, 242:22, 243:3,
243:5, 243:7, 243:25, 244:3, 248:23,
290:10, 330:5, 332:23, 334:5, 339:12,
417:5
questioned [2] - 415:22, 427:6
questioning [1] - 249:19
questions [37] - 247:5, 262:12,
277:17, 280:3, 293:14, 299:20, 308:20,
309:11, 309:16, 328:9, 384:11, 385:9,
385:10, 385:13, 385:21, 398:21,
411:24, 411:25, 425:10, 429:25,
432:13, 436:24, 436:25, 439:21,
445:25, 448:4, 456:22, 456:23, 457:22,
458:1, 458:4, 458:8, 464:9, 464:15,
464:25, 465:13, 466:2
quick [2] - 276:8
quiet [1] - 325:6
quite [1] - 239:1
quote [1] - 433:1

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

R

20

Rabia [61] - 274:15, 312:20, 319:13,
319:18, 319:24, 319:25, 320:17,
320:23, 321:7, 321:8, 321:13, 321:18,
321:19, 321:21, 323:6, 323:19, 325:9,
364:9, 364:10, 364:13, 364:15, 364:16,
364:21, 365:6, 365:8, 365:11, 365:19,
366:10, 367:13, 367:16, 367:19,
368:16, 369:10, 370:7, 371:2, 373:23,
374:14, 375:1, 375:3, 375:9, 377:19,
379:20, 382:8, 383:8, 384:20, 384:23,
387:18, 388:8, 388:22, 389:16, 394:18,
416:10, 416:13, 421:14, 452:10,
454:15, 458:22, 459:7
Rabia's [9] - 367:15, 371:10, 373:25,
374:6, 391:16, 391:17, 391:22, 421:11,
421:14
radio [2] - 241:11, 241:12
raise [3] - 220:21, 225:23, 247:24
raised [1] - 224:1
raising [1] - 221:2
Ramadan [3] - 300:7, 300:9, 300:12
ratted [1] - 437:25
rea [1] - 228:25
reach [2] - 241:5, 246:6
reaction [2] - 362:18, 364:4
read [24] - 227:22, 227:23, 239:11,
265:21, 266:23, 267:12, 268:14, 282:1,
283:5, 289:14, 311:3, 311:12, 431:2,
432:2, 432:4, 432:6, 435:16, 435:17,
440:23, 441:11, 445:6, 447:25, 454:6,
454:7
readback [1] - 239:10
readily [1] - 249:12
reading [1] - 269:4
reads [1] - 311:14
ready [6] - 220:18, 232:17, 241:22,
268:16, 350:6, 463:10
real [6] - 229:18, 279:9, 281:1, 432:20,
432:21, 433:17
reality [1] - 241:4
really [13] - 220:13, 225:9, 228:11,
228:15, 229:17, 229:24, 231:3, 231:8,
366:14, 381:4, 408:12, 408:13, 432:16
reason [8] - 221:2, 226:21, 231:16,
231:21, 240:2, 240:4, 356:2, 422:8
reasonable [1] - 233:7
reasons [3] - 228:6, 291:6, 292:7
receipt [3] - 264:5, 264:6, 265:2
receive [9] - 234:14, 236:22, 237:1,
263:19, 273:25, 377:5, 377:15, 397:14,
397:17
Received [7] - 318:12, 395:17, 401:4,
402:10, 403:24, 405:10, 406:22
received [32] - 244:16, 256:10, 257:14,
260:20, 265:5, 265:10, 265:17, 272:21,
273:8, 273:14, 273:23, 274:3, 274:9,
274:13, 274:18, 276:20, 283:1, 288:1,
289:12, 291:3, 291:10, 292:11, 299:9,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 273 of 280 PageID #: 1348

313:11, 317:23, 325:5, 326:9, 327:4,
329:15, 407:15, 409:14, 470:2
receiving [4] - 245:14, 264:11, 377:21,
378:2
recent [4] - 222:12, 222:17, 407:17,
407:21
recently [3] - 308:18, 457:19, 463:8
reception [3] - 296:21, 297:9, 310:15
recess [2] - 347:10, 349:1
Recess [1] - 415:11
recipes [1] - 245:24
recognize [13] - 255:5, 256:19, 260:6,
265:3, 265:7, 273:2, 289:4, 290:18,
316:16, 326:1, 326:19, 329:8, 395:6
recollection [10] - 239:5, 301:25,
304:14, 431:25, 432:5, 432:11, 435:11,
435:21, 441:8, 441:12
recommend [1] - 397:24
record [17] - 225:8, 239:8, 239:13,
255:8, 255:13, 255:16, 255:17, 255:22,
256:1, 257:22, 258:2, 262:6, 289:17,
291:5, 389:6, 413:6
recorded [5] - 245:21, 308:2, 308:5,
308:6, 312:5
recorder [1] - 430:24
recording [9] - 303:3, 303:5, 305:4,
305:7, 306:10, 307:5, 357:17, 465:1,
465:4
recordings [4] - 311:21, 311:25,
313:14, 467:7
records [16] - 253:9, 253:13, 253:15,
253:16, 254:18, 256:3, 257:4, 258:25,
260:7, 260:10, 260:22, 260:24, 261:11,
261:24, 264:18, 271:12
recovered [1] - 286:6
recross [1] - 235:1
recruiters [1] - 242:15
redact [2] - 226:5, 226:15
redacted [1] - 226:12
redaction. [1] - 226:9
redirect [3] - 235:1, 308:22, 464:11
REDIRECT [4] - 308:24, 464:13, 469:9,
469:13
refer [3] - 362:12, 410:6, 411:8
reference [4] - 239:5, 285:13, 285:19,
291:21
referred [10] - 253:18, 257:20, 283:21,
292:10, 292:12, 310:1, 362:11, 401:9,
410:3, 411:5
referring [7] - 225:5, 310:11, 352:16,
362:22, 372:3, 373:4, 382:23
refers [4] - 221:7, 227:8, 230:7, 362:14
refresh [6] - 301:25, 304:14, 432:11,
435:10, 435:21, 441:8
refreshes [2] - 431:25, 432:4
refuse [1] - 446:12
regard [1] - 230:21
regarding [5] - 284:17, 284:23,
293:20, 293:21, 325:11
regular [1] - 263:24
regulations [1] - 254:12

reiterate [2] - 241:2, 361:1
relate [1] - 260:23
related [5] - 322:24, 323:7, 323:9,
323:16, 352:14
relationship [19] - 221:21, 221:25,
227:5, 227:18, 227:20, 229:10, 230:19,
231:20, 231:22, 273:18, 274:6, 322:22,
328:11, 328:13, 328:21, 331:5, 331:6,
375:15, 385:13
relative [1] - 248:6
relatives [2] - 245:19, 297:4
release [1] - 350:18
relevance [4] - 224:12, 346:22, 346:24,
407:13
relevant [3] - 231:21, 346:8, 350:22
religious [5] - 243:25, 249:24, 405:17,
405:19, 405:21
remain [2] - 233:16, 233:19
remained [1] - 296:20
Remember [1] - 384:1
remember [35] - 236:9, 239:1, 251:2,
251:6, 251:15, 328:6, 339:9, 340:12,
354:13, 360:11, 377:11, 378:4, 383:4,
391:10, 393:21, 420:8, 425:12, 435:9,
437:9, 438:21, 439:6, 440:17, 443:16,
444:25, 451:17, 451:18, 451:22, 452:1,
456:17, 456:18, 456:24, 457:1, 457:5,
459:6, 465:2
remind [1] - 279:6
renewing [2] - 356:1, 356:8
rent [2] - 353:16, 356:13
rental [2] - 275:5, 290:2
rented [3] - 242:19, 346:13, 354:1
repeat [3] - 231:11, 244:18, 379:15
repeatedly [1] - 437:3
rephrase [1] - 382:1
replies [1] - 269:18
reply [4] - 267:1, 267:6, 268:9, 268:15
report [5] - 241:11, 302:1, 305:11,
310:4, 321:11
reported [1] - 262:7
Reporter [2] - 220:1, 220:1
reporters [1] - 239:6
reports [2] - 243:9, 309:22
representing [3] - 299:24, 300:5
request [2] - 350:13, 406:12
requested [1] - 467:23
requesting [1] - 350:18
required [1] - 254:13
requisite [1] - 350:20
residence [1] - 266:20
residue [1] - 245:25
resistance [1] - 298:19
resolution [1] - 350:25
resolve [2] - 266:10, 266:12
resolved [2] - 264:8, 264:15
resolving [1] - 239:4
resources [2] - 242:24, 244:20
respect [8] - 221:1, 241:4, 241:19,
250:14, 379:14, 410:11, 411:4, 465:24
respectful [1] - 411:3

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

21

respond [2] - 226:18, 340:19
response [5] - 225:12, 237:7, 320:11,
341:13, 365:7
responsibility [1] - 455:15
responsible [10] - 320:5, 321:15,
321:23, 363:11, 363:20, 364:23, 365:1,
365:3, 365:13, 444:8
rest [2] - 235:14, 341:2
rests [2] - 235:5, 235:6
result [3] - 264:11, 287:3, 311:5
results [4] - 282:18, 287:14, 289:6,
290:20
resume [3] - 293:16, 345:11, 415:10
resumes [2] - 350:5, 415:14
retail [1] - 285:25
retire [1] - 241:4
return [8] - 258:18, 258:22, 259:9,
259:23, 261:9, 275:8, 275:10, 276:24
returned [7] - 258:20, 259:10, 259:24,
276:9, 335:7, 335:14, 339:17
returning [3] - 253:16, 262:2, 262:3
returns [2] - 258:16, 261:10
reveal [1] - 229:3
review [1] - 261:24
reviewed [4] - 254:17, 261:12, 262:8,
447:22
reward [1] - 448:6
rid [1] - 250:17
rights [2] - 424:17, 425:5
RILEY [2] - 350:16, 351:1
Riley [1] - 350:16
rip [1] - 446:12
ripped [1] - 398:2
Rise [1] - 264:2
rise [6] - 275:1, 293:17, 345:11,
359:25, 415:8, 466:16
Road [1] - 266:13
road [2] - 295:7, 341:10
Robert [3] - 252:3, 252:10, 252:11
role [3] - 241:19, 330:6, 416:19
room [27] - 238:22, 239:12, 296:18,
297:14, 297:24, 298:7, 298:23, 299:19,
304:4, 304:11, 304:20, 304:23, 306:6,
306:8, 306:24, 307:1, 309:8, 321:1,
343:25, 354:17, 367:18, 368:8, 404:15,
406:3, 449:13, 461:14
Roqia [1] - 383:7
roster [1] - 388:19
routine [2] - 253:10, 293:2
row [3] - 258:5, 401:20, 403:7
rude [2] - 240:16, 240:18
Rukia [1] - 325:17
rule [6] - 237:5, 237:11, 240:3, 240:4,
240:13, 240:20
Rule [1] - 228:21
ruled [2] - 238:11, 282:8
rules [1] - 310:11
Rules [1] - 236:22
ruling [7] - 223:6, 223:7, 226:13,
228:21, 279:3, 279:5, 287:23
run [5] - 222:12, 239:17, 253:7, 270:1,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 274 of 280 PageID #: 1349

421:17
ruse [1] - 310:13
Russian [1] - 346:4

S
safe [3] - 223:20, 444:13, 464:19
Saidi [1] - 220:24
salam [1] - 267:4
salt [3] - 419:1, 419:5, 419:19
Sana [1] - 291:14
sana_pakhtana [3] - 266:8, 266:11,
268:5
sat [5] - 298:7, 298:9, 319:25, 364:15,
367:18
save [4] - 241:13, 248:6, 251:21
saved [2] - 418:24, 419:6
saw [6] - 342:9, 342:11, 345:8, 444:5,
457:6, 463:16
schedule [1] - 399:25
school [30] - 221:20, 248:22, 333:7,
336:14, 370:15, 370:20, 370:23, 371:9,
402:15, 402:17, 402:19, 402:21,
402:23, 402:25, 404:13, 405:19,
405:21, 409:6, 417:4, 417:5, 417:9,
417:10, 417:16, 417:18, 417:22, 421:2,
421:24, 421:25, 422:10, 423:19
School [1] - 417:8
scissors [1] - 369:17
screen [11] - 247:20, 256:13, 257:23,
258:18, 268:1, 268:8, 268:18, 283:4,
283:11, 291:20
scrutinize [1] - 251:19
sealed [3] - 293:25, 347:9, 350:14
Sealed [1] - 294:1
sealing [1] - 350:19
search [14] - 281:13, 281:15, 281:19,
281:23, 282:18, 286:15, 287:14, 289:7,
290:21, 291:18, 310:16, 310:18, 374:6,
374:9
searched [6] - 243:5, 281:10, 286:15,
287:11, 373:24, 459:19
searches [3] - 243:6, 276:24, 292:23
searching [1] - 241:9
seat [2] - 255:17, 313:24
seated [10] - 232:14, 232:20, 272:4,
295:15, 345:17, 350:3, 351:4, 415:13,
415:17, 466:18
SEC [1] - 304:4
second [20] - 223:2, 223:24, 223:25,
229:4, 229:5, 247:19, 247:23, 251:12,
261:18, 300:15, 303:9, 311:4, 334:16,
335:21, 335:23, 363:6, 367:21, 418:10,
420:19, 422:18
second-guess [1] - 251:12
seconds [1] - 268:10
secret [1] - 430:7
section [1] - 440:14
secure [1] - 286:15
Security [1] - 263:15

see [47] - 220:16, 222:20, 230:11,
231:7, 231:8, 232:15, 237:1, 237:2,
238:2, 238:8, 239:6, 239:14, 245:18,
245:23, 247:19, 249:9, 250:2, 254:23,
255:1, 255:2, 255:15, 255:16, 272:3,
272:4, 277:2, 290:4, 302:6, 303:11,
305:12, 342:7, 342:25, 343:24, 347:3,
347:4, 347:7, 395:4, 422:10, 431:25,
432:4, 443:25, 444:4, 444:16, 463:13,
463:18, 466:15, 467:20
seeing [1] - 239:19
seem [1] - 240:22
sees [2] - 233:17, 254:24
self [4] - 357:12, 358:9, 364:7, 414:15
send [5] - 239:11, 254:12, 364:21,
430:1, 431:6
sender [1] - 269:15
sends [2] - 254:7, 269:5
sense [2] - 237:8, 237:12
sent [17] - 221:20, 248:22, 268:4,
268:9, 281:25, 288:10, 288:11, 308:8,
320:3, 321:13, 321:20, 401:14, 404:13,
421:8, 430:23, 431:3, 463:22
sentence [5] - 397:14, 397:24, 446:23,
447:17, 448:10
sentenced [1] - 397:22
sentences [1] - 245:15
sentencing [2] - 397:10, 446:22
sentiments [1] - 347:5
separate [2] - 249:19, 395:24
separated [1] - 399:24
September [54] - 224:7, 224:22,
241:25, 242:12, 242:19, 242:23,
243:16, 246:14, 259:24, 260:1, 264:1,
264:22, 266:1, 267:11, 268:7, 268:24,
271:21, 275:4, 275:11, 275:19, 277:8,
281:7, 281:9, 286:14, 289:18, 289:20,
290:6, 290:7, 293:7, 295:23, 296:2,
300:16, 300:25, 301:13, 301:22,
312:13, 312:15, 312:17, 312:19,
312:21, 312:23, 312:25, 313:2, 313:4,
342:17, 352:25, 356:22, 408:16, 409:8,
409:25, 439:1, 443:15, 459:12, 459:14
sequential [1] - 269:17
serious [1] - 242:4
serve [1] - 220:12
service [1] - 241:20
SESSION [1] - 350:1
session [1] - 350:11
set [4] - 264:15, 266:19, 317:2, 461:20
sets [1] - 243:8
seven [4] - 248:20, 331:9, 422:23,
439:4
several [8] - 247:15, 264:6, 264:7,
266:18, 281:20, 301:17, 305:1, 458:11
severity [1] - 270:3
shadow [3] - 351:21, 352:12, 356:20
share [1] - 238:20
shared [2] - 404:15, 406:3
sheik [3] - 316:7, 316:8, 316:11
sheikh [4] - 337:14, 337:16, 337:18

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

22

shift [1] - 379:4
shifts [1] - 233:2
shirt [1] - 430:24
shocked [1] - 414:19
shop [4] - 356:17, 356:19, 358:4,
414:8
shopping [1] - 371:22
short [3] - 225:9, 239:14, 467:4
shortcuts [1] - 248:12
shorten [1] - 362:12
shorter [1] - 400:19
shortly [3] - 276:23, 300:3, 423:2
shot [1] - 272:22
shoulders [1] - 233:1
show [36] - 254:20, 255:4, 255:14,
258:4, 260:3, 261:5, 264:23, 264:24,
272:10, 272:11, 272:21, 273:10,
282:13, 283:17, 286:2, 287:7, 289:24,
290:12, 305:14, 306:13, 317:25, 343:4,
377:2, 400:14, 401:18, 403:2, 404:22,
406:6, 407:5, 411:20, 431:24, 435:10,
440:7, 440:13, 441:4, 454:4
showed [4] - 301:25, 304:14, 354:7,
355:3
showing [23] - 255:18, 255:24, 256:18,
272:13, 273:1, 274:2, 287:5, 289:3,
289:16, 317:12, 317:15, 318:6, 322:13,
322:19, 323:4, 326:1, 326:18, 327:11,
327:18, 327:24, 329:7, 355:8, 395:3
shown [1] - 309:1
shows [2] - 257:20, 258:23
shuttle [1] - 409:9
sick [2] - 367:3, 367:4
Side [1] - 279:1
side [6] - 233:2, 235:2, 235:3, 238:7,
278:2, 347:7
side's [2] - 236:16, 237:7
Sidebar [5] - 293:25, 358:12, 381:6,
388:10, 413:1
sidebar [6] - 237:13, 293:23, 350:10,
350:14, 358:11, 381:5
Sidebar-order [1] - 293:25
sidebars [1] - 237:18
sides [2] - 235:14, 311:5
sign [3] - 228:3, 231:25, 232:6
signature [1] - 395:9
signed [6] - 222:4, 230:2, 230:3,
315:15, 444:21, 453:16
signing [1] - 445:6
silent [2] - 233:16, 233:19
similar [2] - 255:16, 430:15
similarly [1] - 287:24
simple [1] - 246:11
simply [1] - 346:14
simultaneously [2] - 310:16, 428:12
sister [6] - 248:25, 274:7, 274:15,
323:10, 331:15, 365:10
sisters [3] - 331:8, 331:9, 331:20
sit [1] - 248:8
sitting [2] - 343:25, 378:11
situation [2] - 320:18, 365:19

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 275 of 280 PageID #: 1350

Six [1] - 220:10
six [7] - 248:20, 270:2, 333:19, 333:23,
418:16, 439:4, 447:25
size [2] - 423:13, 423:15
skills [1] - 248:18
skip [2] - 311:17, 312:7
skipped [1] - 417:20
slam [1] - 267:15
slept [1] - 404:15
slow [1] - 381:22
slower [1] - 249:3
slowly [1] - 320:22
sm [1] - 267:3
small [2] - 220:9, 330:13
smell [8] - 368:9, 368:13, 368:14,
457:2, 457:4, 457:5
smelled [3] - 368:11, 456:11, 457:9
smoke [8] - 369:4, 418:3, 422:13,
422:17, 423:23, 423:24, 434:2
smoked [2] - 422:16
smoking [6] - 418:2, 418:3, 418:5,
420:15, 423:8, 427:22
Smoky [4] - 266:13, 271:23, 341:7,
341:9
snitcher [2] - 432:21, 433:17
snuck [1] - 435:2
someone [6] - 236:25, 239:18, 321:25,
322:4, 410:7, 434:21
sometime [3] - 223:7, 356:20, 420:18
sometimes [20] - 235:1, 236:6, 237:1,
237:2, 237:4, 237:13, 237:15, 237:18,
238:25, 239:2, 240:8, 330:7, 338:21,
338:22, 419:1, 419:11, 419:12, 420:16,
420:17, 421:17
somewhat [1] - 280:12
somewhere [2] - 433:4, 439:23
Son [1] - 246:17
son [34] - 221:7, 221:20, 222:2,
226:24, 226:25, 227:1, 227:3, 227:7,
227:8, 227:9, 227:14, 228:18, 230:7,
231:14, 232:3, 244:11, 246:12, 246:15,
249:5, 249:10, 251:15, 320:14, 331:12,
362:24, 363:1, 377:2, 377:3, 384:1,
384:23, 388:22, 454:20, 454:24
son's [1] - 248:10
soon [2] - 243:7, 391:12
sorry [25] - 221:14, 230:5, 231:17,
231:19, 256:15, 282:7, 290:16, 291:9,
332:10, 359:19, 363:23, 368:5, 373:12,
373:17, 393:6, 403:5, 406:18, 408:10,
428:1, 435:5, 435:13, 443:20, 447:19,
448:9, 465:21
sort [2] - 429:7, 431:8
sorts [1] - 437:15
sought [1] - 226:4
sounds [2] - 223:19, 226:14
sources [1] - 264:17
Southern [3] - 222:8, 222:21, 222:25
space [1] - 310:14
speaking [10] - 255:7, 284:13, 285:12,
360:22, 360:24, 361:4, 361:5, 361:6,

381:9, 381:10
special [3] - 253:1, 263:6, 263:20
Special [2] - 252:2, 265:11
specific [6] - 242:2, 270:14, 285:14,
325:16, 358:7, 449:24
specifically [5] - 282:12, 285:24,
297:12, 328:6, 358:5
specifics [1] - 285:12
speculate [1] - 238:10
speech [2] - 330:7, 330:9
spell [4] - 252:9, 262:22, 314:4, 314:6
spend [1] - 426:3
spent [1] - 375:1
spilled [1] - 370:4
spoken [2] - 244:6, 354:10
spot [1] - 236:24
spreadsheet [8] - 257:4, 257:18,
259:1, 260:8, 260:12, 260:13, 261:6,
262:6
spreadsheets [1] - 257:7
sprite [1] - 442:6
Sprite [1] - 442:7
squad [3] - 263:14, 263:17, 275:23
Squad [1] - 263:15
squarely [1] - 233:1
stairs [1] - 371:14
stand [3] - 234:13, 242:7, 252:5
standard [1] - 307:16
Standard [1] - 307:19
standing [5] - 298:9, 367:17, 402:1,
403:11, 403:13
stands [1] - 235:5
start [15] - 269:4, 270:2, 338:8, 339:3,
353:19, 353:21, 355:21, 357:6, 369:1,
390:22, 409:9, 418:1, 418:3, 466:8
started [18] - 252:22, 264:16, 264:17,
266:20, 334:11, 334:14, 353:21,
390:25, 391:5, 391:12, 417:24, 418:5,
418:8, 436:7, 439:8, 459:21
starting [5] - 257:19, 265:20, 267:12,
268:14
starts [1] - 270:17
stashed [1] - 247:17
state [2] - 262:22, 314:4
State [1] - 252:9
statement [9] - 234:2, 234:5, 241:2,
241:23, 279:7, 279:8, 359:7, 359:25,
381:12
statements [14] - 220:18, 228:24,
231:16, 233:25, 234:11, 234:17,
234:19, 279:2, 279:3, 280:9, 309:23,
388:24, 389:9, 467:9
STATES [2] - 219:1, 219:3
states [1] - 335:11
States [40] - 219:10, 219:14, 235:6,
242:1, 248:22, 253:10, 253:14, 253:16,
253:25, 254:13, 259:23, 259:24, 261:7,
261:9, 262:10, 315:13, 316:10, 332:1,
332:7, 332:11, 332:16, 332:19, 332:24,
333:23, 334:6, 334:8, 334:15, 339:24,
399:5, 401:9, 404:4, 404:6, 404:7,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

23

406:24, 407:3, 417:25, 422:25, 445:4,
450:1
statute [1] - 222:12
stay [13] - 224:14, 293:24, 333:18,
335:10, 335:23, 336:15, 385:3, 392:20,
421:24, 421:25, 431:20, 461:18, 461:22
stayed [4] - 421:11, 422:22, 423:5,
462:7
staying [2] - 368:8, 453:3
stays [2] - 233:2, 233:9
steal [2] - 335:4, 339:5
stealing [3] - 339:3, 420:10, 420:12
steeped [1] - 231:6
Stenographically [1] - 220:4
step [3] - 226:13, 293:19, 310:24
steps [7] - 230:12, 269:24, 271:10,
292:20, 292:24, 293:1, 367:10
still [8] - 246:17, 251:5, 304:9, 305:23,
335:18, 336:5, 360:13, 455:3
stipulate [2] - 228:12, 228:14
stipulated [4] - 226:25, 311:9, 311:15,
311:18
stipulation [18] - 222:4, 227:6, 227:22,
228:1, 228:3, 230:3, 230:4, 230:12,
231:8, 231:25, 232:5, 295:6, 311:3,
311:5, 313:7, 313:8, 313:10, 313:15
stipulations [1] - 311:7
stole [4] - 335:1, 419:17, 419:19,
419:22
stonefaced [1] - 240:17
stop [4] - 242:1, 244:19, 248:18,
421:19
stopped [4] - 251:10, 339:1, 345:3,
375:13
stops [2] - 299:12, 428:17
store [1] - 372:15
stored [2] - 253:23, 254:3
stores [2] - 285:17, 285:25
stories [3] - 443:3, 443:24, 451:19
story [4] - 220:15, 247:1, 454:1,
457:24
stove [4] - 342:15, 343:20, 343:23,
344:1
straight [2] - 371:18, 371:19
strategy [1] - 276:10
street [1] - 341:12
Street [1] - 219:22
stressful [1] - 427:11
strictly [1] - 284:13
strikes [1] - 229:15
strived [1] - 248:23
student [1] - 316:8
studied [1] - 337:17
stuff [11] - 221:14, 221:16, 241:13,
250:17, 311:17, 365:11, 370:19, 375:3,
390:12, 396:22, 458:23
subject [7] - 231:2, 235:25, 236:2,
257:19, 259:6, 266:2, 463:2
subjected [3] - 234:23, 234:24, 259:18
subjects [2] - 257:5, 259:2
submit [2] - 350:23, 359:7

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 276 of 280 PageID #: 1351

subpoena [15] - 266:4, 266:7, 325:5,
377:5, 377:15, 377:22, 378:2, 379:2,
379:4, 379:7, 380:24, 381:20, 381:21,
382:13, 382:18
subpoenas [3] - 244:16, 264:16,
286:25
substance [4] - 240:9, 342:20, 343:11,
456:22
substantial [2] - 347:1, 447:10
suburb [1] - 272:1
Suburban [1] - 409:2
subway [1] - 246:20
subways [1] - 347:1
successful [2] - 337:10, 337:12
suggest [1] - 346:20
suggesting [1] - 220:11
suicide [4] - 346:25, 414:11, 414:13,
414:14
suit [1] - 272:6
Suite [1] - 219:23
SULLIVAN [1] - 219:18
Sultan [64] - 250:9, 273:17, 319:13,
319:18, 320:1, 320:2, 320:8, 320:20,
320:24, 321:6, 321:8, 321:11, 321:21,
322:1, 322:5, 322:21, 325:21, 341:20,
342:2, 354:19, 363:24, 364:13, 364:16,
364:20, 366:3, 366:12, 367:2, 367:19,
368:16, 369:10, 370:7, 371:2, 371:15,
373:23, 376:16, 377:19, 379:20,
381:23, 382:10, 384:20, 385:20,
387:18, 388:2, 388:8, 388:21, 389:17,
390:12, 394:18, 399:17, 399:22, 402:3,
403:15, 406:7, 416:7, 416:15, 431:1,
449:12, 452:3, 452:6, 452:7, 452:10,
454:15, 454:20, 454:23
Sulzer [1] - 220:1
summarize [1] - 260:22
summarized [3] - 257:18, 258:25,
377:25
summations [3] - 234:17, 235:16,
237:2
summer [1] - 248:24
Sunday [1] - 266:1
supervisory [1] - 270:10
supplies [1] - 246:2
supply [1] - 285:17
support [4] - 248:20, 401:16, 428:4,
462:11
supported [1] - 229:17
suppose [1] - 413:5
supposed [7] - 242:3, 249:23, 250:17,
365:23, 366:2, 366:14, 447:16
supposedly [4] - 247:16, 250:7,
250:10, 459:14
surveillance [7] - 264:15, 266:19,
271:12, 271:18, 271:20, 275:12, 292:23
surveillances [2] - 243:1, 247:3
suspect [2] - 242:12, 243:12
suspicious [2] - 430:17, 431:7
sustain [3] - 238:7, 287:24, 287:25
sustained [6] - 277:23, 283:25, 284:3,

345:6, 379:10, 382:16
Sustained [1] - 381:4
SWAT [1] - 243:7
swear [1] - 220:22
switch [1] - 351:12
sworn [5] - 220:24, 235:22, 252:7,
313:25, 314:2
sworn/affirmed [1] - 262:20
system [8] - 233:19, 253:20, 253:24,
254:11, 255:23, 256:1, 262:8, 262:11
System [2] - 253:19, 253:21
systems [1] - 262:9

T
table [2] - 272:4, 317:3
tables [2] - 239:25, 240:23
Tabligh [5] - 386:2, 386:3, 388:1,
389:21, 390:14
tabligh [3] - 353:6, 353:7, 353:11
Taliban [1] - 426:7
taller [1] - 401:22
Tape [2] - 428:16, 428:17
tape [1] - 430:24
tape-recorder [1] - 430:24
tapped [3] - 243:4, 366:19, 366:21
target [2] - 242:3, 270:24
targeting [1] - 387:7
Targeting [1] - 253:21
targets [1] - 271:2
Tariq [27] - 271:7, 274:11, 292:6,
327:10, 327:19, 329:20, 341:20, 342:3,
363:25, 372:21, 377:19, 384:19,
387:18, 388:8, 388:22, 389:17, 400:10,
401:24, 402:25, 403:19, 404:15,
405:19, 429:5, 429:11, 429:22, 434:25
Task [1] - 253:5
task [3] - 253:6, 253:7, 264:17
TATP [3] - 282:12, 284:7, 288:8
taxi [6] - 248:19, 351:21, 351:22,
352:4, 352:12, 433:15
tea [1] - 343:25
teach [4] - 329:25, 366:11, 366:13,
367:14
teacher [8] - 329:18, 329:19, 329:21,
329:23, 330:7, 337:17, 354:23
teams [2] - 243:7, 275:12
teapot [4] - 342:10, 342:25, 343:2,
343:4
TECS [4] - 253:19, 254:1, 254:11,
256:1
telephone [3] - 245:20, 312:11, 312:12
television [1] - 243:8
ten [7] - 293:16, 372:13, 372:17,
415:10, 419:9, 419:10, 448:24
tenth [1] - 417:12
term [2] - 315:18, 400:5
terms [2] - 269:10, 284:10
terrorism [11] - 251:4, 251:5, 253:6,
253:8, 263:16, 264:9, 275:23, 284:14,

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

24

284:17, 284:20, 284:21
Terrorism [1] - 253:4
terrorist [7] - 242:1, 243:12, 244:19,
244:23, 250:23, 251:14, 269:11
test [4] - 374:12, 374:16, 377:2, 463:7
tested [1] - 377:4
testified [18] - 252:8, 256:4, 262:21,
263:12, 265:12, 271:9, 271:18, 272:2,
286:21, 291:13, 292:19, 295:22, 309:7,
314:3, 339:15, 379:22, 380:16, 413:3
testifies [1] - 223:8
testify [26] - 221:3, 224:12, 233:16,
233:17, 233:21, 233:22, 244:16,
250:19, 250:25, 251:9, 377:16, 384:24,
385:5, 388:15, 396:8, 396:10, 398:11,
446:7, 446:12, 450:20, 450:25, 463:10,
463:12, 465:17, 465:19, 465:23
testifying [4] - 245:14, 315:15, 463:24,
464:3
testimony [25] - 234:13, 235:3, 236:7,
238:21, 239:1, 239:3, 239:12, 245:8,
245:16, 245:19, 250:20, 272:24,
284:10, 284:11, 325:3, 345:24, 359:1,
389:2, 389:18, 390:2, 390:5, 410:3,
411:5, 446:9, 447:4
testing [1] - 463:3
tests [4] - 376:17, 376:19, 376:20,
376:21
text [1] - 266:23
THE [30] - 252:9, 252:10, 262:22,
262:23, 305:17, 307:13, 307:16,
307:19, 308:6, 314:4, 314:5, 314:7,
314:24, 315:4, 315:6, 328:3, 353:9,
382:18, 382:23, 383:1, 383:5, 383:7,
388:8, 408:1, 428:15, 432:7, 436:23,
441:14, 452:20, 454:12
The court [308] - 220:9, 220:22,
220:25, 221:14, 221:17, 222:1, 222:12,
222:15, 222:17, 222:20, 222:24, 223:5,
223:9, 223:12, 223:14, 223:23, 224:4,
224:19, 225:8, 225:16, 225:20, 226:8,
226:14, 226:20, 226:22, 227:11,
227:22, 228:4, 228:20, 229:8, 230:5,
230:8, 230:11, 230:15, 230:17, 230:21,
231:5, 232:2, 232:7, 232:9, 232:14,
232:17, 238:1, 239:24, 240:15, 240:24,
246:8, 247:19, 251:25, 252:4, 252:13,
254:22, 255:20, 256:10, 256:17,
257:12, 257:14, 257:16, 258:3, 260:5,
260:12, 260:15, 260:18, 260:20,
262:13, 262:16, 262:18, 265:15,
265:17, 265:19, 272:7, 272:12, 272:16,
272:19, 272:21, 273:8, 273:14, 273:23,
273:25, 274:3, 274:9, 274:13, 274:18,
277:23, 278:1, 279:2, 279:6, 279:11,
279:13, 282:7, 282:10, 282:23, 283:1,
283:25, 284:9, 285:8, 285:10, 287:8,
287:18, 287:20, 287:23, 288:19,
288:23, 289:1, 289:10, 289:12, 290:14,
290:17, 290:25, 291:3, 291:8, 291:10,
293:16, 293:19, 295:2, 295:5, 295:8,
295:10, 295:12, 295:15, 295:17, 299:5,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 277 of 280 PageID #: 1352

299:9, 301:21, 302:4, 303:14, 305:15,
305:18, 305:25, 307:11, 307:14,
307:18, 307:20, 308:4, 308:21, 310:8,
310:21, 310:24, 311:1, 311:4, 311:14,
312:7, 312:9, 313:11, 313:15, 313:17,
313:24, 314:6, 314:8, 314:10, 314:20,
314:25, 315:5, 315:7, 316:15, 316:25,
317:2, 317:5, 317:18, 317:21, 317:23,
317:25, 318:12, 322:3, 326:9, 327:4,
327:16, 328:2, 328:4, 329:6, 329:15,
343:9, 343:22, 345:6, 345:10, 345:12,
345:15, 345:17, 345:18, 345:24, 346:2,
346:6, 346:8, 346:18, 347:2, 347:9,
350:3, 350:6, 350:9, 350:15, 350:20,
351:2, 351:4, 351:6, 356:5, 358:11,
359:1, 359:10, 359:12, 359:14, 359:19,
359:21, 360:2, 360:5, 360:10, 360:16,
360:20, 361:3, 361:7, 361:10, 362:2,
366:24, 378:20, 379:10, 380:1, 380:19,
381:4, 381:7, 381:13, 381:15, 381:22,
381:24, 382:16, 382:20, 382:24, 383:3,
383:6, 383:9, 384:9, 387:23, 388:7,
388:9, 388:11, 388:13, 388:19, 388:23,
389:1, 389:4, 389:10, 389:13, 390:9,
395:2, 395:17, 398:19, 398:22, 398:25,
400:15, 401:2, 401:4, 402:10, 403:24,
404:25, 405:10, 406:14, 406:22,
407:14, 407:20, 407:24, 412:6, 412:12,
413:2, 413:5, 413:8, 414:2, 415:4,
415:7, 415:10, 415:13, 415:15, 415:17,
415:19, 428:10, 428:13, 432:2, 432:6,
432:10, 435:12, 435:15, 436:20,
436:24, 437:12, 440:5, 440:11, 440:15,
441:11, 444:16, 448:4, 449:23, 452:19,
454:7, 454:10, 454:13, 455:25, 464:7,
464:10, 466:1, 466:3, 466:5, 466:8,
466:18, 467:1, 467:6, 467:10, 467:15,
467:18, 467:20, 468:2, 468:6
themselves [7] - 234:11, 248:6, 248:9,
250:25, 251:21, 253:25, 254:8
thereafter [2] - 300:3, 423:2
thick [1] - 342:23
thinking [4] - 355:15, 370:22, 412:7,
427:22
third [7] - 229:16, 229:25, 259:17,
259:18, 300:25, 306:4, 318:15
thirteen [2] - 376:6, 376:8
thirty [5] - 396:3, 396:4, 397:18,
397:19, 397:20
thn [2] - 267:1, 267:3
thng [1] - 267:3
thousand [2] - 335:5, 419:21
threat [2] - 270:2, 270:3
three [18] - 232:21, 245:5, 257:4,
257:8, 269:18, 295:25, 316:9, 329:24,
331:9, 339:1, 342:5, 343:1, 344:4,
373:11, 373:13, 374:8, 391:24, 417:9
three-quarters [1] - 343:1
throughout [8] - 233:5, 233:6, 233:10,
275:12, 359:23, 410:3, 411:5
thrown [3] - 459:4, 459:7, 459:11
ticket [10] - 249:7, 251:3, 334:18,

334:23, 334:25, 335:6, 335:13, 335:14,
335:22
tiered [1] - 270:1
time,pay [1] - 267:3
tipped [2] - 244:4, 276:20
today [15] - 242:11, 248:12, 251:14,
272:3, 303:5, 305:7, 315:15, 375:7,
425:19, 446:9, 449:9, 451:10, 457:11,
457:13, 457:14
toe [1] - 284:25
toes [1] - 226:13
together [6] - 221:12, 221:19, 242:16,
321:9, 400:6, 449:13
tomorrow [11] - 340:7, 365:15, 365:24,
374:18, 466:9, 466:15, 467:3, 467:8,
467:16, 467:20
took [32] - 224:7, 248:12, 249:8, 249:9,
259:5, 271:10, 292:20, 296:2, 296:17,
300:18, 302:11, 304:1, 306:14, 315:23,
357:4, 371:19, 372:15, 384:25, 393:20,
396:22, 400:2, 407:22, 420:21, 420:22,
420:23, 425:13, 425:19, 431:8, 441:2,
465:18, 467:9
top [4] - 257:20, 268:22, 441:5, 454:7
total [2] - 449:1, 467:11
touch [3] - 248:3, 426:25, 460:3
tough [1] - 438:5
toward [1] - 455:16
towed [1] - 286:15
track [1] - 359:15
tracks [1] - 243:19
traffic [1] - 260:24
train [2] - 353:13, 433:13
trained [1] - 440:25
training [29] - 248:3, 250:23, 263:19,
263:22, 263:24, 269:10, 315:24, 316:3,
316:6, 316:21, 318:16, 319:1, 325:19,
337:4, 337:5, 337:6, 337:8, 338:2,
338:5, 339:16, 386:5, 393:17, 395:22,
396:22, 426:14, 426:17, 429:7, 429:12,
440:19
transcript [10] - 224:17, 224:18,
224:21, 239:11, 313:21, 345:12,
350:14, 350:18, 428:11, 466:10
Transcript [1] - 220:4
Transcription [1] - 220:4
transcripts [5] - 224:19, 245:18,
311:25, 312:1, 312:11
translate [1] - 315:3
translations [3] - 311:25, 312:1,
312:11
translator [4] - 429:8, 429:14, 465:5,
465:7
transmit [1] - 254:10
transportation [1] - 461:3
travel [18] - 253:9, 254:5, 254:17,
255:8, 255:17, 255:22, 257:4, 258:25,
260:7, 260:22, 261:24, 262:10, 264:17,
271:12, 289:17, 339:16, 421:12
traveled [3] - 384:15, 384:18, 386:10
traveling [1] - 385:21

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

25

Treasury [1] - 253:19
treated [2] - 221:20, 228:18
triacetone [2] - 282:12, 284:8
trial [34] - 221:12, 222:11, 226:23,
231:5, 231:6, 232:18, 233:6, 233:10,
233:23, 234:15, 236:13, 237:17,
237:20, 239:7, 239:14, 239:16, 239:17,
240:1, 240:12, 240:14, 241:7, 241:9,
241:10, 245:6, 245:14, 246:3, 247:12,
251:8, 251:14, 284:21, 311:10, 311:16,
457:19
trick [1] - 430:22
tried [5] - 243:18, 248:14, 251:18,
369:9, 369:11
trip [12] - 247:15, 258:8, 258:13,
258:14, 259:9, 261:6, 261:7, 261:18,
261:20, 275:13, 335:23, 353:1
triperoxide [2] - 282:12, 284:8
trips [2] - 261:2, 261:4
trouble [15] - 249:17, 334:7, 365:20,
394:21, 416:3, 416:5, 416:12, 416:14,
421:1, 421:4, 421:6, 421:19, 431:15,
439:8
truck [3] - 356:1, 356:8
true [13] - 230:12, 230:14, 329:2,
336:24, 337:1, 377:2, 386:7, 394:2,
408:6, 429:2, 433:21, 452:2, 455:4
trust [3] - 337:11, 340:6, 444:9
truth [23] - 248:13, 279:11, 337:3,
360:7, 360:17, 360:18, 361:8, 385:7,
385:15, 385:24, 386:12, 386:19, 387:8,
393:16, 394:15, 396:8, 396:10, 396:24,
425:17, 427:3, 447:12, 453:20, 460:2
truthful [1] - 393:14
truthfully [1] - 446:1
try [19] - 223:15, 233:22, 237:18,
250:4, 250:16, 251:10, 284:20, 289:1,
337:7, 343:19, 344:14, 353:18, 353:19,
355:22, 369:22, 429:9, 456:4, 463:25,
464:3
trying [15] - 229:25, 242:1, 244:18,
277:4, 310:14, 345:22, 346:19, 357:6,
359:15, 369:3, 369:4, 369:6, 371:14,
375:4, 409:9
Tuesday [1] - 468:7
turn [5] - 241:1, 241:12, 368:14,
399:25, 448:1
turned [7] - 244:3, 247:9, 248:6, 248:7,
249:11, 270:18
turning [2] - 336:4, 395:6
turns [1] - 400:2
TV [2] - 378:11, 378:12
tweeting [2] - 241:15, 241:20
twelve [4] - 248:20, 376:6, 376:7,
417:25
twenty [6] - 243:1, 247:3, 247:24,
249:15, 315:10, 372:9
twenty-four [2] - 247:24, 315:10
twenty-four-hour [2] - 243:1, 247:3
two [55] - 220:20, 240:23, 242:14,
242:17, 243:3, 244:3, 244:12, 247:11,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 278 of 280 PageID #: 1353

248:24, 249:19, 249:23, 250:18,
250:19, 253:18, 257:8, 259:2, 259:20,
261:2, 261:3, 265:1, 269:15, 277:13,
282:3, 288:9, 288:10, 288:11, 296:9,
296:17, 316:9, 317:10, 329:1, 329:2,
329:24, 335:17, 336:10, 338:25,
364:20, 367:20, 368:19, 374:1, 375:19,
377:14, 384:2, 391:14, 391:24, 395:24,
420:9, 421:12, 426:18, 426:19, 431:11,
451:21, 452:24, 453:14
type [2] - 270:22, 346:23
types [3] - 253:13, 254:2, 270:2

U
u,how [1] - 266:25
u...more [1] - 267:2
U.S [3] - 219:4, 219:17, 219:18
ultimately [2] - 270:20, 335:12
unanimously [1] - 233:7
Uncle [1] - 322:15
uncle [9] - 228:1, 243:10, 274:20,
319:18, 319:21, 320:10, 330:25,
352:17, 465:24
uncle's [2] - 352:21, 399:23
unclear [2] - 360:21, 361:6
uncles [1] - 410:9
uncovering [1] - 242:25
under [25] - 224:25, 229:14, 234:23,
235:11, 236:22, 239:21, 239:22,
240:19, 247:2, 247:8, 248:5, 248:11,
258:20, 260:10, 292:8, 337:17, 396:7,
430:24, 433:12, 433:15, 433:16, 449:9,
451:10, 455:1, 461:11
underlying [2] - 284:17, 285:1
underneath [1] - 258:5
understood [3] - 249:17, 360:2,
445:10
unfair [3] - 228:8, 230:22, 347:3
unfolds [2] - 231:5, 231:7
uniform [3] - 401:24, 402:15, 460:14
unit [1] - 270:11
UNITED [2] - 219:1, 219:3
united [1] - 219:10
United [39] - 219:14, 235:5, 242:1,
248:22, 253:10, 253:13, 253:16,
253:25, 254:13, 259:23, 259:24, 261:7,
261:9, 262:10, 289:18, 315:13, 332:1,
332:7, 332:10, 332:11, 332:16, 332:19,
332:24, 333:23, 334:6, 334:8, 334:15,
339:23, 399:5, 401:9, 404:4, 404:6,
404:7, 406:24, 407:2, 417:25, 422:25,
445:4, 450:1
unless [4] - 226:17, 233:6, 314:25,
315:3
unlike [2] - 247:10, 247:17
unlikely [1] - 224:11
unnecessarily [1] - 311:8
unquote [1] - 433:2
unraveling [1] - 244:20

unto [1] - 239:15
unwilling [1] - 228:16
up [81] - 235:5, 236:1, 237:13, 238:19,
242:15, 247:20, 250:10, 252:4, 254:25,
256:13, 264:15, 266:19, 278:1, 283:11,
288:23, 290:6, 290:8, 291:20, 293:23,
295:10, 305:15, 311:4, 311:11, 317:2,
328:4, 332:7, 332:10, 340:2, 340:9,
340:11, 341:23, 346:14, 353:19,
353:21, 353:22, 355:23, 357:10,
358:11, 365:17, 366:25, 367:25, 370:6,
370:8, 370:10, 370:18, 370:20, 371:6,
371:15, 376:7, 381:5, 388:9, 388:18,
390:16, 394:10, 395:4, 398:2, 409:21,
412:12, 419:13, 420:19, 422:7, 422:9,
427:13, 434:20, 437:19, 439:17, 443:3,
443:22, 446:12, 446:17, 446:23,
448:18, 448:24, 452:16, 455:8, 459:19,
459:22, 460:24, 464:16, 467:21
upset [5] - 340:9, 388:15, 389:22,
389:23, 414:17
upstair [2] - 368:12, 368:13
upstairs [4] - 367:21, 368:2, 372:24
ur [5] - 266:25, 267:2, 267:4, 267:15
urgent [2] - 251:7, 269:16
Usman [2] - 327:10, 341:20
uttering [1] - 360:18

V
valuable [3] - 242:10, 443:18
value [1] - 347:2
van [4] - 351:25, 352:1, 408:24, 443:12
variety [1] - 245:6
various [1] - 346:13
venued [1] - 222:21
verdict [1] - 251:22
verdicts [2] - 234:12, 241:5
version [1] - 253:20
versus [1] - 346:4
Vicinity [1] - 307:22
video [15] - 297:13, 297:16, 298:23,
299:2, 299:11, 299:12, 299:13, 300:9,
300:12, 309:10, 310:4, 310:9, 346:5,
346:23, 395:4
videos [16] - 344:17, 344:20, 344:24,
345:1, 345:3, 345:4, 345:7, 345:19,
345:20, 345:21, 345:22, 345:23,
345:25, 346:4, 346:21, 346:22
videotape [3] - 303:1, 309:1, 310:4
videotaped [6] - 297:18, 297:20,
298:24, 300:23, 301:7, 301:10
view [1] - 317:6
views [1] - 238:20
violate [1] - 398:1
violating [1] - 240:15
Virginia [1] - 263:22
visit [2] - 337:1, 401:12
visiting [1] - 248:25
voice [2] - 238:22, 328:4

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

26

volume [1] - 357:10
voluntarily [4] - 296:6, 302:19, 305:20,
306:17
volunteered [1] - 249:19

W
Wais [25] - 243:24, 245:22, 249:24,
293:10, 313:5, 329:11, 329:17, 330:18,
330:23, 354:6, 354:7, 354:9, 354:10,
354:21, 354:22, 355:2, 355:3, 355:9,
355:11, 356:25, 409:14, 409:18,
409:19, 411:14, 411:20
Wais's [1] - 330:6
waiting [2] - 224:4, 237:15
Wali [147] - 226:18, 227:24, 228:2,
232:20, 242:6, 246:13, 248:14, 266:15,
271:8, 272:4, 273:11, 292:5, 293:9,
296:14, 296:16, 296:20, 297:24,
298:24, 299:14, 299:19, 299:25, 301:9,
309:15, 313:1, 319:18, 320:2, 320:10,
320:11, 320:12, 321:6, 321:9, 321:12,
321:21, 322:9, 322:10, 322:15, 322:16,
322:24, 323:9, 325:9, 325:17, 325:21,
328:11, 328:13, 328:17, 328:21,
328:25, 330:18, 331:5, 331:6, 331:8,
331:11, 332:9, 332:18, 332:21, 334:3,
335:3, 335:22, 339:14, 339:21, 339:22,
340:11, 340:13, 340:19, 341:20, 342:2,
352:3, 352:5, 352:6, 352:17, 352:20,
354:4, 354:11, 355:2, 355:8, 355:11,
355:17, 356:24, 357:4, 357:11, 358:8,
359:11, 362:6, 363:3, 363:6, 363:9,
363:20, 364:1, 364:13, 364:21, 365:17,
365:22, 366:4, 372:21, 372:23, 373:23,
374:24, 375:2, 375:14, 376:3, 376:10,
376:16, 376:23, 378:18, 378:22, 379:8,
379:24, 380:2, 380:16, 380:20, 381:1,
382:2, 383:7, 383:15, 383:16, 383:23,
384:1, 384:6, 384:11, 385:13, 385:20,
390:4, 390:13, 391:7, 401:8, 401:9,
402:1, 408:7, 408:12, 409:2, 409:13,
410:4, 410:6, 411:6, 411:12, 412:7,
414:10, 431:1, 449:10, 451:16, 458:3,
465:22, 465:23
WALI [1] - 219:6
Wali's [10] - 327:6, 331:12, 341:2,
341:24, 362:17, 363:1, 364:4, 365:7,
372:12, 391:8
walk [1] - 370:22
walked [2] - 299:19, 309:7
Walmart [1] - 443:9
wants [5] - 235:3, 314:25, 416:13,
429:10, 447:8
Washington [2] - 219:19, 270:11
wasted [1] - 244:20
watch [5] - 344:24, 345:1, 345:3,
345:20, 345:25
watched [2] - 345:19, 379:1
watching [8] - 243:9, 344:17, 345:4,
345:7, 346:21, 378:11, 378:13, 379:3

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 279 of 280 PageID #: 1354

water [4] - 285:1, 342:13, 344:8,
344:10
Waziristan [26] - 316:1, 316:2, 316:10,
316:11, 316:21, 318:16, 319:1, 325:19,
337:15, 338:2, 338:6, 340:5, 340:10,
340:14, 340:15, 346:12, 355:16,
393:20, 396:21, 434:16, 434:19,
440:19, 440:25, 455:13, 455:16, 455:17
wear [1] - 460:14
wearing [2] - 272:5, 402:15
weather [1] - 240:10
website [3] - 429:23, 430:3
Wednesday [1] - 235:22
weed [1] - 420:15
week [15] - 248:20, 263:21, 279:5,
377:14, 391:14, 398:7, 398:8, 418:16,
419:13, 441:22, 441:23, 459:22, 460:6,
463:15, 463:16
week-long [1] - 263:21
weekend [1] - 222:7
weeks [5] - 263:21, 377:14, 391:14,
391:24, 458:11
weight [5] - 225:2, 238:3, 238:21,
238:23, 311:10
welcome [3] - 232:17, 350:24, 351:2
whatsoever [3] - 239:25, 240:14,
240:22
whch [1] - 267:2
white [4] - 368:21, 403:4, 456:14,
456:16
Whoa [1] - 236:9
whole [3] - 229:15, 345:1, 419:19
widely [1] - 277:1
wife [14] - 248:21, 250:9, 322:25,
330:22, 336:22, 336:23, 336:25,
352:15, 388:21, 388:22, 399:19,
399:23, 429:10, 430:23
willing [2] - 228:14, 416:18
willingly [3] - 228:9, 229:9, 394:23
wind [1] - 276:24
window [1] - 353:20
windows [1] - 368:15
Windows [1] - 253:20
Windows-based [1] - 253:20
WINGE [1] - 219:15
wired [4] - 304:12, 304:20, 306:6,
306:24
wiretaps [1] - 245:21
wise [1] - 355:18
wishes [1] - 225:4
withdrawn [8] - 340:17, 365:5, 372:7,
374:23, 379:2, 379:22, 392:16, 414:16
witness [39] - 234:13, 235:3, 235:11,
239:10, 252:1, 254:20, 260:3, 262:18,
272:11, 283:18, 287:7, 287:24, 293:22,
302:3, 303:12, 309:23, 310:25, 311:1,
313:13, 313:18, 313:22, 313:24,
345:15, 345:19, 359:12, 361:8, 388:14,
400:14, 401:19, 404:24, 407:5, 413:3,
415:14, 431:24, 440:9, 466:6, 466:7,
467:5, 467:10

Witness [2] - 345:16, 350:5
WITNESS [25] - 252:10, 262:23,
305:17, 307:13, 307:16, 307:19, 308:6,
314:5, 314:7, 314:24, 315:4, 315:6,
328:3, 382:18, 382:23, 383:1, 383:5,
383:7, 388:8, 408:1, 432:7, 436:23,
441:14, 452:20, 454:12
witness' [1] - 236:7
witnesses [7] - 234:23, 235:11,
245:13, 311:7, 467:4, 467:8, 467:11
wives [2] - 337:1, 352:21
woman [1] - 402:3
women [4] - 352:22, 400:2, 416:13
word [11] - 227:19, 228:16, 231:21,
231:23, 239:8, 365:17, 366:7, 366:8,
366:17, 366:25, 367:14
words [2] - 246:16, 251:15
works [1] - 340:7
world [3] - 247:4, 258:4, 428:2
worried [3] - 355:21, 373:18, 373:22
worry [3] - 342:10, 383:19, 441:11
worse [2] - 334:9
write [2] - 396:12, 446:19
writes [2] - 397:13, 397:16
writing [2] - 350:23, 441:7
wrote [3] - 220:10, 430:25, 441:10

Y
Yahoo [1] - 288:6
yahoo.com [1] - 268:5
Yassin [1] - 340:4
year [6] - 242:13, 409:5, 417:13,
417:16, 423:7, 453:22
years [29] - 221:13, 221:19, 241:1,
244:11, 244:12, 247:24, 248:24,
249:15, 263:11, 329:1, 329:2, 329:23,
335:24, 339:1, 346:22, 375:19, 384:2,
385:2, 396:3, 396:4, 397:20, 417:9,
420:9, 423:5, 448:13, 448:18, 448:24,
449:1, 462:25
yellow [2] - 248:19, 418:13
yellow-cab [1] - 248:19
YORK [1] - 219:1
York [62] - 219:5, 219:15, 219:23,
220:2, 220:14, 242:2, 242:20, 246:17,
246:19, 247:15, 248:19, 253:3, 258:17,
259:13, 262:3, 269:21, 274:25, 275:3,
275:6, 275:13, 275:15, 275:22, 275:23,
276:21, 276:25, 286:12, 289:22,
293:10, 308:8, 308:11, 336:14, 339:17,
340:23, 346:13, 346:25, 354:23,
355:19, 355:24, 356:3, 356:7, 356:13,
360:13, 360:14, 377:10, 392:18,
392:20, 405:12, 405:16, 424:12,
433:14, 439:14, 441:24, 451:23,
451:24, 453:1, 460:10, 460:16, 460:24,
463:10
young [1] - 410:8
younger [2] - 402:5, 407:25

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

27

youngest [1] - 341:24
yourself [17] - 316:2, 321:8, 321:22,
322:5, 342:3, 355:5, 355:12, 364:14,
374:13, 432:4, 434:12, 435:17, 437:20,
452:16, 456:2, 456:5, 465:1
yourselves [2] - 235:21, 236:11

Z
Zafarmal [3] - 283:8, 283:12, 288:5
Zaheer [36] - 312:22, 313:3, 325:9,
325:17, 326:5, 326:11, 326:13, 341:16,
352:13, 352:14, 352:15, 352:20,
356:14, 356:19, 357:5, 357:6, 357:7,
357:11, 357:15, 357:21, 358:8, 359:2,
359:4, 362:6, 362:9, 363:2, 363:4,
363:7, 363:8, 363:9, 363:16, 363:17,
364:6, 364:8, 365:9, 414:10
Zaheer's [2] - 330:23, 363:1
Zaher [24] - 319:22, 319:23, 320:13,
320:14, 378:8, 379:8, 380:6, 380:16,
380:20, 380:23, 382:4, 383:7, 409:12,
429:2, 429:10, 430:5, 430:14, 430:18,
431:3, 431:7, 432:14, 432:16, 432:18
Zaher's [2] - 429:6, 429:11
zahid [2] - 266:3, 267:16
Zahid [1] - 267:14
Zarein [22] - 255:23, 257:5, 259:2,
259:9, 275:17, 315:24, 316:5, 317:10,
318:8, 318:14, 318:25, 355:4, 355:5,
355:12, 355:16, 389:21, 390:14,
392:13, 393:10, 395:22, 396:21, 440:25
Zarin [13] - 336:10, 336:11, 336:15,
336:18, 336:22, 336:25, 337:9, 338:1,
338:4, 339:16, 340:5, 340:13, 388:1
Zazi [184] - 221:2, 221:12, 221:18,
222:4, 222:8, 224:7, 225:24, 227:17,
227:25, 228:2, 228:15, 229:11, 230:6,
231:4, 232:20, 233:4, 234:1, 241:19,
242:6, 242:13, 242:14, 243:10, 243:11,
244:8, 246:13, 246:14, 246:21, 246:24,
247:5, 247:10, 247:13, 247:18, 247:23,
248:4, 248:7, 248:10, 248:14, 249:1,
249:6, 249:10, 249:12, 249:15, 249:22,
250:4, 250:12, 250:16, 250:19, 251:1,
251:17, 251:18, 255:10, 256:2, 257:5,
257:19, 258:7, 260:8, 260:23, 260:25,
262:7, 266:15, 266:21, 266:22, 267:25,
270:25, 271:5, 271:8, 271:15, 271:18,
272:4, 272:15, 272:24, 273:5, 273:11,
273:17, 274:5, 274:6, 274:11, 274:15,
277:19, 277:21, 280:5, 281:14, 292:5,
292:6, 293:9, 295:7, 295:23, 296:6,
296:15, 296:16, 296:20, 297:10,
297:24, 298:24, 299:16, 299:20,
300:15, 301:9, 301:18, 301:22, 302:8,
302:15, 302:17, 303:10, 304:7, 305:10,
305:20, 308:7, 308:14, 309:5, 309:12,
309:15, 309:19, 311:2, 312:14, 312:16,
312:18, 312:20, 313:1, 314:5, 314:7,
314:16, 315:9, 315:23, 316:13, 316:19,

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Case 1:10-cr-00060-JG Document 172 Filed 08/18/11 Page 280 of 280 PageID #: 1355
28

321:9, 346:11, 346:12, 351:9, 352:6,
355:18, 379:11, 388:16, 389:16,
394:22, 395:19, 398:5, 401:8, 402:1,
402:21, 403:13, 404:9, 404:18, 405:3,
405:14, 406:1, 408:7, 408:12, 409:2,
409:9, 409:13, 410:4, 411:6, 411:12,
414:7, 414:17, 414:25, 415:2, 416:2,
418:13, 421:8, 421:19, 424:7, 449:10,
450:1, 450:7, 450:21, 451:3, 451:7,
451:12, 453:12, 454:17, 454:23,
464:15, 464:21, 464:25, 465:9
zazi [1] - 269:2
ZAZI [1] - 219:6
Zazi's [17] - 225:25, 247:13, 247:23,
250:9, 261:24, 274:15, 286:22, 297:20,
297:23, 299:14, 299:22, 399:19,
419:22, 434:8, 436:12, 458:3, 467:9
zazmjhd@hotmail.com [2] - 287:10,
288:14
zazmjhd@yahoo.com [3] - 282:15,
282:19, 288:13
zero [1] - 397:15

ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,

CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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