nabil el haddani 2010-01-13, 01:05 AM Hi experts, I'm working on SHO overhead optimisation on UMTS900 and UMTS2100 layers; I have a lot of cells

with excessive SHO overhead; For rural sites, i can apply more downtilt to reduce the SHO area; for urban and dense urban sites i have the same problem but i can't downtilt because the tilt is already 8, 9 or 10, i thought about reducing the Active set size to 2 but it's not good idea cuz i will loose SHO gain.. Can anyone light my way with some good ideas in order to optimise to the normal range which is 30%-40% and share some experience related to this task. Br Nabil desi_larka 2010-01-13, 04:35 AM Nabil i am assuming u have the right sorts of neighbours defined. there are a few ways to acheive this You could increase your threshold for adding which would avoid weak radio legs, you could change hystersis which would also do similar thing. There are also priorities defined for the neighbous so you could do that. BTW having more than 3 RL would it give you much SHO gain anyways ? i doubt it nabil el haddani 2010-01-13, 04:56 AM Thanks for your answer, i already tried that but in vain! Do u know how to implement prorities for neighbours with NSN vendor? I know that in ZTE but NSN i should dig in Br, Nabil wolverine 2010-01-13, 05:08 AM Have you examined the possibility of reducing the power of the pilot channel (CPICH)? This is usually the second step if downtilting doesn't work/isn't possible. nabil el haddani 2010-01-13, 05:17 AM It's a risky solution man :) roamR 2010-01-13, 02:20 PM How high is the antenna height for urban area and dense urban implemented? Physical changes such as lowering the antenna height also might help. gprastomo 2010-01-13, 05:27 PM Hi,

07:22 PM Do you work on U900-2100 SHO or separately ? nabil el haddani 2010-01-14. its better to apply to antenna downtilt for the cells which we dont want to serve. i thought about reducing the Active set size to 2 but it's not good idea cuz i will loose SHO gain. Can anyone light my way with some good ideas in order to optimise to the normal range which is 30%-40% and share some experience related to this task. what's the effect? fangruan2201 2010-01-14. I have a lot of cells with excessive SHO overhead. for urban and dense urban sites i have the same problem but i can't downtilt because the tilt is already 8. Thank u guys gprastomo 2010-01-14. 9 or 10. I doubt it is the counter problem? Tto confirm u can analyse the logfiles? Export the active set size statisctics then calculate the average: Eg: Number of Components in Active Set Count Percentage 1 222 2 . 07:02 PM Hi guys. 08:09 PM Hi experts. Anyone have an idea.. br nabil el haddani 2010-01-14. Br Nabil Friend! If the statistics u got are from OMC. I realised that mostly all U900 cells have SHO overhead higher than 50%. or if you want to make it difficult SHO for specific neighbour you can apply Cell Individual Offset or EcNo Offset for that neighbour. i can apply more downtilt to reduce the SHO area.Reducing the SHO. I'm working on SHO overhead optimisation on UMTS900 and UMTS2100 layers. For rural sites. 08:00 PM I'm working on U9-U21 together. seems global problem.

Nabil gprastomo 2010-01-14. but not for U21 (with YEU naming). you can see that's it's general issue for U9 cells (like 143YEW1). Thanks for ure help @fangruan2201: i already did this exercise. 08:25 PM Hi gprastomo.444 3 111 Then the SHO overhead = (1*222 + 2*444+3*111)/(222+444+111) ~1-2 is fine! nabil el haddani 2010-01-14. so the SHO OH have higher than U2100. it gives the same results with high SHO overhead!! Br. it's filtered on SHO overh more than 50%. plz find enclosed the xls file with SHO overhead statistics for RT and NRT services. it's filtered on SHO overh more than 50%. Nabil Dear Friend. 08:10 PM Hi gprastomo. You can find also ADJS for neighbours and also gsm timing advance to have an idea about the overshooting sites in 900 band. but not for U21 (with YEU naming). based on my general analysis. U900 will have better coverage than U2100. it should be like this (This case almost the same with GSM and DCS layer). You can find also ADJS for neighbours and also gsm timing advance to have an idea about the overshooting sites in 900 band. plz find enclosed the xls file with SHO overhead statistics for RT and NRT services. Both of them implemented on the same antenna or not ? . Thanks for ure help @fangruan2201: i already did this exercise. What i want to know is : 1. you can see that's it's general issue for U9 cells (like 143YEW1). it gives the same results with high SHO overhead!! Br.

addition time 640ms (for HSDPA it's 100ms). 08:49 PM Hi Boss. 08:56 PM additions parameters: -for RT :addition window: 4db . the parameter should be differ from U2100. drop parameters: -For RT: drop window :6db. the parameter should be differ from U2100. we have to match with the objective of implementing this U900 (is is coverage or capacity issue) both of these issue will treated as different strategy. and on the top of this layer we have U2100 layer for capacity issue in the hot spots and high traffic areas. we have defined different templates/objects for each layer of course. we have to match with the objective of implementing this U900 (is is coverage or capacity issue) both of these issue will treated as different strategy gprastomo 2010-01-14. 08:33 PM To answer your questions: 1. deletion and replacement for both band ? br nabil el haddani 2010-01-14. Here we have continuous coverage of U900 so it's for coverage issue.5db. -For NRT: drop wiondow 4db. NRT and HS default ones : 2db as replacement window and 100ms as replacement time . Nab So this U900 should be treated differently. 2. don't hesitate to ask me more questions to have clear idea about my case. replacement parameters: for RT. What is the value for addition window. addition time is 1280ms. addition time 640 ms -for NRT: addition window : 2. The tilt should be different between both of them So this U900 should be treated differently. For the paramaters. Thanks for ure time Br.2. addition time is 1280ms(for HSDPA it's 640ms). br nabil el haddani 2010-01-14. The tilt should be different between both of them indeed it's different value since it's different antennas. Both of them implemented on the same antenna or not ? we have separated dual antenna one for GSM900/UMTS900 and second one handling DCS/U2100.

negative value will act as opposite way. 10:45 PM Hi Boss... Do you add the Cell Individual Offset to specific neighbour ? So what we have to do is : 1. negative value will act as opposite way. . You can select which neighbour which has illogical attempt (high attemp from the faraway). you can generate the per neighbour performance.:D fahmi 2011-04-13. anlysing the pillot pollution area -> from drivetest 3. 11:46 PM Sorry For the EcNo offset. Then you can apply CIO (Cell indiividual Offset in Siemens 3G). identify on which cells the SHO is taking place -> by looking to SHO per adjacencies (which neighbour is the most illogical SHO event) 2. You can select which neighbour which has illogical attempt (high attemp from the faraway). From the SHO adjencies report. Then you can apply CIO (Cell indiividual Offset in Siemens 3G). Positif value will treat the cell as if better than the real value. analysing the cells which has more than 2 average active set size-> from the counter br nabil el haddani 2010-01-14. how to choose these specific nighbours to apply an offset on it? by looking to SHO per adjacencies !!? gprastomo 2010-01-15. johnsonsem 2011-03-21. From the SHO adjencies report. Positif value will treat the cell as if better than the real value. identify on which cells the SHO is taking place -> by looking to SHO per adjacencies (which neighbour is the most illogical SHO event) 2. IntraFreqNcellEcNoOffset on NSN 3G. 10:27 PM This parameter is quite normal. 09:16 PM Hi guys. Good thread and learn alotz. IntraFreqNcellEcNoOffset on NSN 3G. how to choose these specific nighbours to apply an offset on it? by looking to SHO per adjacencies !!? arameter is quite normal. you can generate the per neighbour performance. 01:03 AM Hi Boss. anlysing the pillot pollution area -> from drivete nabil el haddani 2010-01-14.. Do you add the Cell Individual Offset to specific neighbour ? So what we have to do is : 1.Thanks Nabil gprastomo 2010-01-14. 11:46 PM For the EcNo offset.

U900 goes a long way and the cell coverage has to be controlled in order to reduce SHO OH. 01:59 AM this activity for lazy engineer to make optimization. 10:06 PM Hello. RFDude_PMA 2011-05-11. 10:41 PM Just a basic comment. Then what type of vertical BW do you have in your network on U900. please put antenna height of U21 higher than U900 that make sharing of coverage (possible using different antenna type) adewijaya 2011-04-14. For Urban/Dense you try to reduce for threshold HO and sharing coverage with the neighbour base on Propagation Delay each cell to the neighbor Note : to reduce problem U900 on urban/dense. 1. last choice is reduce PCPICH but please do some tilt more better solution in case of signal penetration fahmi . 11:07 PM absolutelly if u900 have more SHO than u21 because of using lower frequency range the coverage bigger than u21. A higher vertical BW even with DT will increase the SHO overhead. it's just make downtilt antenna but hardly if concentration of traffic far away from Node B 2. Clearly for rural. 12:48 AM yes i think is better solution rimoucha 2011-05-10. Thank u guys Hi nabil. seems global problem. Sorry but I have a question: How to determine the SHO overhead for a cell (vendor is Huawei). Best regards. 01:12 AM Why do you think is a risky solution to reduce the CPICH? How much do you have it right now? adewijaya 2011-05-11.I realised that mostly all U900 cells have SHO overhead higher than 50%. Anyone have an idea. does it still persists ? if not. :) riyantoyadi 2011-04-13. how did you proceed ? BR developingrhythm 2011-04-13. What's new for this problem.

yafawi79 2011-05-11.in new launced nw it generaly gives high values due to less traffic raghchau 2011-06-15. 03:54 AM Hi nabil what about the SHO qual min? did u try to tune it ? raghchau 2011-06-15. 10:24 PM Which vendor please specify? . its not much alarming. Initially it was 32% but in further 2 months it has increased to 58%. Can you suggest some specific parameters to tune for this. last choice is reduce PCPICH but please do some tilt more better solution in case of signal penetration Yes. but downtilting may affect the G900 coverage. soft handover overhead is very high(58%)..It is newly launched network but it is increasing gradually.It is newly launched network but it is increasing gradually. there are not as parameter. 10:11 PM You are right.it not alarming if ur nw doesnt have much traffic.....2011-05-11. Can anyone suggest means to improve this? auto_art 2011-06-15. Can anyone suggest means to improve this? hi check for pilot pollution also.. soft handover overhead is very high(58%).. Initially it was 32% but in further 2 months it has increased to 58%.. 09:46 PM In my network..wait for some let traffic to rise. 09:01 PM In my network. 02:11 AM this activity for lazy engineer to make optimization. in such a case no solution but changing CPICH :rolleyes:.first. auto_art 2011-06-15. Can you suggest some specific parameters to tune for this.noly way to reduce it to tune HO. maasricht 2011-06-15. 10:06 PM You are right....

Can anyone suggest means to improve this? normally is 30%-40% for SHO Overhead.. Now we are planning to run Schema cycle to further reduce pilot pollution issues. 11:40 PM 58% is quite high ratio. 06:54 PM As cluster & market optimizations have already been done. try with the parameter SHOqualmin and change it from -24 to -20 and see what happens. dimooon11 2011-06-15. Try to check electrical and mechanical tilt and azimuths first. 11:38 PM In my network. sometimes it works sometimes not... first eliminate all overshooting cells from your network . 03:30 AM Mate try this.azimuth change)... Hope this could help. RB raghchau 2011-06-16. 05:48 PM As cluster & market optimizations have already been done. adewijaya 2011-06-15. not before Tomas Delgado 2011-06-16. too many SHO make system high load on signalling. only after this you can think about look into parameter tuning. 11:11 PM It is for Huawei system... please consider with Time Propagation Delays on that sector and Pillot Polution Plot review.it surely gonna help u. soft handover overhead is very high(58%). Is much better to make a physical optimization and then proceed to parameters change. auto_art 2011-06-16.all the physical optimization we made. Although SHOqualmin is the param you can play with and some more parameters are also there like TRIGTIME1A ( you can increase like from 160 to 320) and FILTER COEFFICIANT can be increase (like 2 to 3)but again. sometimes it works sometimes not. Now we are planning to run Schema cycle to further reduce pilot pollution issues.this is tradeoff between SHO and Call drop.all the physical optimization we made. So better idea is go with Hard optimization(tilt.it could delay the SHO but may increase the Call drop. 01:58 AM Mate try this. hesh 2011-06-16.and limit the overshooting servers. Regards. 05:28 AM I think it is not the time to work with parameters.. try with the parameter SHOqualmin and change it from -24 to -20 and see what happens.downtilt antenna. . yeaah schema is good.raghchau 2011-06-15. Rodbar 2011-06-16.

05:48 PM Hi 1)Pls take the SHO report cell wise and base don same do a drive test in that cluster . 4)finally go for pillot power decrease(Not recommened . 2)Do physicall optimization for site. Any soft approach is bound to have some trade off. 05:55 PM I will say not to go Hesh method as this is not very fruitful. 3)if it fails go for Parametric optimization. .plannerguy 2011-06-21. It will be reflected in SHO factor. Better go for cluster drive and and then selectively reduce overlap area. but if now way then can be executed) Regards Plannerguy mobilink999 2011-06-21.