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Jackson V AEGlive - Transcripts - June 25th - Gordon Matheson sports med-conflict of interest testimony

Jackson V AEGlive - Transcripts - June 25th - Gordon Matheson sports med-conflict of interest testimony

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Published by TeamMichael
The director of Stanford University’s sports medicine program testified Monday that Michael Jackson’s doctor for his “This Is It” concert series, who administered a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol to the singer, had conflicts of interest with the tour promoter that “were likely to lead to poor medical decisions.”

Testifying in the wrongful death case brought by Jackson’s mother and children against promoter and producer AEG Live and two of its executives, Dr. Gordon Matheson said Dr. Conrad Murray’s debts meant he badly needed the $150,000 a month he was supposed to receive. Matheson testified that the contract made him answerable to AEG rather than his patient, and that because he would have been out of a job if the 50 concerts had been postponed, Murray was more likely to want to please the company.

Matheson, who has an M.D. and a doctorate, said that when Jackson’s health deteriorated, “that conflict played out.”

Michael Jackson | 1958-2009 Photos: Michael Jackson | 1958-2009

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Matheson testified under the assumption that Murray had a contract with AEG, one of the most contentious points at the trial, which just completed its 35th day of testimony. The Jacksons say that AEG negligently hired and supervised the doctor, while the entertainment company says any money it was supposed to pay him was an advance to Jackson, who was Murray's employer. Murray signed his contract the day before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Neither AEG nor Jackson signed it.

The Stanford doctor, who worked as the team physician for the Vancouver Canucks professional hockey team and the Canadian Olympic hockey team, said it didn’t make a difference that AEG didn’t sign the contract because the terms had been negotiated, and that Murray was “fully engaged” and had passed on his bank information to the company so he could get paid.

“Whether it was signed or not didn’t change my feeling as to whether there was conflict of interest,” he testified.

Matheson pointed to a line in the contract that said Murray was to “Perform the services reasonably requested by Producer.” The language he said, tied Dr. Murray to AEG even though his was supposed to be looking after Jackson’s health, creating a conflict “as to which of the interests is primary.”

AEG has argued that the contract Murray signed was one of the three or four drafts and that “Producer” was one of several mistakes that would have been corrected in the final version of the contract.

Matheson wondered why Murray would close his practice when he faced losing his job caring for Jackson if the show were canceled, especially since he was in such bad financial straits. “It can produce a bias in the thinking where Dr. Murray wants to preserve that income at all costs and keep the people paying that income happy,” he said
The director of Stanford University’s sports medicine program testified Monday that Michael Jackson’s doctor for his “This Is It” concert series, who administered a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol to the singer, had conflicts of interest with the tour promoter that “were likely to lead to poor medical decisions.”

Testifying in the wrongful death case brought by Jackson’s mother and children against promoter and producer AEG Live and two of its executives, Dr. Gordon Matheson said Dr. Conrad Murray’s debts meant he badly needed the $150,000 a month he was supposed to receive. Matheson testified that the contract made him answerable to AEG rather than his patient, and that because he would have been out of a job if the 50 concerts had been postponed, Murray was more likely to want to please the company.

Matheson, who has an M.D. and a doctorate, said that when Jackson’s health deteriorated, “that conflict played out.”

Michael Jackson | 1958-2009 Photos: Michael Jackson | 1958-2009

Full coverage: AEG-Michael Jackson wrongful death trial Full coverage: AEG-Michael Jackson wrongful death trial

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Matheson testified under the assumption that Murray had a contract with AEG, one of the most contentious points at the trial, which just completed its 35th day of testimony. The Jacksons say that AEG negligently hired and supervised the doctor, while the entertainment company says any money it was supposed to pay him was an advance to Jackson, who was Murray's employer. Murray signed his contract the day before Jackson died on June 25, 2009. Neither AEG nor Jackson signed it.

The Stanford doctor, who worked as the team physician for the Vancouver Canucks professional hockey team and the Canadian Olympic hockey team, said it didn’t make a difference that AEG didn’t sign the contract because the terms had been negotiated, and that Murray was “fully engaged” and had passed on his bank information to the company so he could get paid.

“Whether it was signed or not didn’t change my feeling as to whether there was conflict of interest,” he testified.

Matheson pointed to a line in the contract that said Murray was to “Perform the services reasonably requested by Producer.” The language he said, tied Dr. Murray to AEG even though his was supposed to be looking after Jackson’s health, creating a conflict “as to which of the interests is primary.”

AEG has argued that the contract Murray signed was one of the three or four drafts and that “Producer” was one of several mistakes that would have been corrected in the final version of the contract.

Matheson wondered why Murray would close his practice when he faced losing his job caring for Jackson if the show were canceled, especially since he was in such bad financial straits. “It can produce a bias in the thinking where Dr. Murray wants to preserve that income at all costs and keep the people paying that income happy,” he said

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Dr. Gordon Matheson
(Director of Sport !e"icine# St$nfor" %ni&erit' $n" Conf(ict of Interet E)pert*
+($intiff, E)pert -itne.
Continued direct examination ! "illiam #loss$
/. Dr. !$theon# 0hen 0e 1ro2e 'eter"$'# 0e 0ere t$(2in3 $1out one of the e4$i( $ p$rt of the
5trou1(e $t the 6ront5 ch$in. 7ou re4e41er th$t8
A. 7e.
/. An" I thin2 99 Dr$0in3 'our $ttention to e)hi1it 30:# i th$t 0here 0e 0ere 0hen 0e 1ro2e8
A. 7e.
/. An" 0hich e4$i(# pecific$(('# 0ere 0e in the 4i""(e of t$(2in3 $1out8

A. ;hi 0$ the e4$i( fro4 <$n"' +hi((ip to Kenn' Orte3$ on June 20th.
/. A(( ri3ht. An" 'ou,&e =ut 99 to put it in conte)t o 99 0ithout repe$tin3 e&er'thin3 th$t 'ou $i"
'eter"$'# 0h$t 0$ it $1out thi e4$i( th$t 'ou thou3ht 0$ i4port$nt8
A. -h$t I thou3ht 0$ i4port$nt 0$ <$n"' +hi((ip 0$ reco3ni>in3 the "ec(ine in !r. J$c2on,
he$(th $n" th$t he $c2no0(e"3e" th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" reco44en"e" continue" p$rticip$tion $t
rehe$r$(. An"# $(o# th$t he reco3ni>e" th$t there $re conf(ict of interet en&iron4ent# for e)$4p(e#
0hich $ ph'ici$n cou(" 0or2 in 0here he $'? 5The doctor is extremely successful (we check
everyone out), and does not need this gig. He's totally unbiased and ethical." th$t $'# to 4e# th$t he
reco3ni>e" th$t conf(ict of interet $n" 1i$ i i4port$nt.
/. A(( ri3ht. No0# i there $n'thin3 e(e th$t 'ou "i" not t$(2 $1out 'eter"$' th$t 'ou coni"ere" to 1e
4$teri$( for the purpoe of 'our opinion in thi e4$i(8
A. 7e. ;here, one 4ore thin3. It, $t the &er' 1e3innin3 of the e4$i( 0here it $'? 5enny, it is
critical that neither you, me or anyone around this show become amateur !sychiatrists or
!hysicians.5 So 0h$t th$t in"ic$te# to 4e# i $ 2in" of puh1$c2# 0hich i $ re4in"er th$t 0e h$&e $
ph'ici$n# Dr. !urr$'# $n" 0e "on,t nee" o4e1o"' e(e re3iterin3 their opinion or 1rin3in3 for0$r"
infor4$tion re($te" to !r. J$c2on, he$(th.
/. -hen 'ou ue the 0or" 5puh1$c2#5 0h$t "o 'ou 4e$n 1' th$t8
A. 5+uh1$c25 i $ 0or" I 0ou(" ue to 4e$n $ "eire to contro( or "eire to fi(ter the infor4$tion.
/. An" 0h$t i the i4p(ic$tion of puh1$c2 in $ conf(ict9of9interet en&iron4ent8
A. ;he i4p(ic$tion 4e$n it pre&ent or (i4it the ph'ici$n, in"epen"ent "eciion94$2in3 for 4e"ic$(
he$(th9re($te" iue.
/. An" for the purpoe of 'our opinion# 'ou re&ie0e" &$riou piece of teti4on'# "epoition
tr$ncript@ i th$t correct8
A. 7e.
/. An" "i" 'ou re&ie0 !r. +hi((ip, teti4on' re3$r"in3 $ te(ephone c$(( he h$" 0ith Dr. !urr$'
hort(' 1efore thi8
A. 7e.
Ms. %teins$ &'ection. (a)ue as to testimon!. *s he re+errin) to deposition or trial,
-ud)e$ %ustained.
/. -e((# "i" 'ou re&ie0 1oth8 -h$t "i" 'ou re&ie0# Dr. !$theon8
A. I re&ie0e" !r. +hi((ip, "epoition $n" tri$( teti4on'.

/. O2$'. An" i there $n'thin3 $1out 0h$t !r. +hi((ip $i" h$ppene" "urin3 the te(ephone c$(( 0ith
Dr. !urr$' th$t 'ou coni"ere" to 1e 4$teri$( 99 0ithDr$0n. I there $n'thin3 $1out !r. +hi((ip,
teti4on' re3$r"in3 the te(ephone c$(( 0ith Dr. !urr$' on June 20th th$t 'ou coni"ere" to 1e 4$teri$(
to $n' of 'our opinion8
A. -e((# I 0ou(" $' it, not t'pic$( or it, not "eir$1(e in $ conf(ict9of9interet itu$tion for o4eone
(i2e $ te$4 o0ner or pro"ucer to 1e co44unic$tin3 "irect(' 0ith $ ph'ici$n.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue it $"" to the potenti$( conf(ict of the "octor, in"epen"ent "eciion94$2in3. It i inf(uence"
or &io($te" in o4e c$p$cit'.
/. An" "i" 'ou 99 i there 99 (et, 3o 1$c2 to e)hi1it 30:. ;here, $nother e4$i( up $t the top fro4 !r.
+hi((ip to t0o peop(e 99 three peop(e# I,4 orr'# $t B?CD p.!. Di" 'ou re(' on th$t for the purpoe of
$n' of 'our opinion8
A. 7e# I "i". ;hi e4$i( $'# fro4 !r. +hi((ip? 5This guy is really starting to concern me.5
/. <eferrin3 to 0ho# $ 'ou un"ert$n" it8
A. A I un"ert$n" it# he, referrin3 to !r. Orte3$ i t$rtin3 to concern hi4. An" th$t tri2e 4e $
unuu$(# $(4ot to the point of re4$r2$1(e# th$t the "irector of the tour e)prein3 4e"ic$( concern h$
no0 1eco4e $ pro1(e4 for !r. +hi((ip. So to 4e# th$t 0ou(" fit in the c$te3or' of puh1$c2.
/. An" puh1$c2 4e$nin3 99 0h' "o 'ou put it th$t 0$'8
A. -e((# i it !r. +hi((ip, concern th$t !r. Orte3$ i 4iin3 the choreo3r$ph' or not "oin3 the (i3ht
correct(' or o4e $pect of the ho0 re($tin3 to hi 2i((# or i he concerne" th$t !r. Orte3$ i 4$2in3
co44ent on !r. J$c2on, he$(th# $n" th$t i 0h$t concern hi48 ;h$t i (i2e(' the c$e# to 4'
un"ert$n"in3 of thi# o th$t 0ou(" repreent puh1$c2.
/. A(( ri3ht. Dr. !$theon# "i" 'ou $(o coni"er 99
!r. A(o? If I c$n $2 e)hi1it 31B to 1e 1rou3ht up.
/. Di" 'ou coni"er $nother et of 5trou1(e $t the 6ront5 e4$i( in co4in3 to 'our opinion8
A. 7e# I "i".
/. An" i th$t e)hi1it 31B8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou h$&e th$t in front of 'ou8
A. I "o. ;h$n2.
/. A(( ri3ht. -h$t i it $1out e)hi1it 31B th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e i 4$teri$( to 'our opinion8

A. ;here $re e&er$( e4$i( in thi eEuence. ;he firt th$t I ue" for 4' opinion 0$ fro4 John
Fou3h"$h( to <$n"' +hi((ip on June 1Dth reportin3 $""ition$( he$(th concern.
/. A(( ri3ht. -e,&e $(re$"' t$(2e" $1out the firt one# 5Not 1ein3 $ Dr$4$ Eueen5 e4$i(. I there
$n'thin3 e(e $1out th$t# other th$n 0h$t 'ou tetifie" to 'eter"$'8
A. Fe $i"? 5enny said he was shaking and couldn't hold a knife and fork. enny had to cut his
food before he could eat, and then he had to use his fingers. enny said re!eatedly that m" was in no
sha!e to go on stage. He ke!t on going on and on about how no one is taking res!onsibility for
getting him ready. #e might be getting beyond damage control here.5 So to 4e# th$t i $nother
in"ic$tion th$t the he$(th concern i eriou.
/. A(( ri3ht. An" "i" 'ou coni"er !r. +hi((ip, repone to th$t e4$i(8
A. 7e. ;he repone $1o&e th$t $'? 5$'m not sure what the !roblem is, chemical or !hysiological.5
0hich $'# to 4e# !r. +hi((ip i reco3ni>in3 there, no c(e$r "i$3noi or i4preion of 0h$t the
he$(th pro1(e4 i.
/. An" 0h' i th$t i4port$nt to 'ou for the purpoe of con"uctin3 $ conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i8
A. -e((# firt $n" fore4ot# in $n' itu$tion# inc(u"in3 port 4e"icine# 0e 0$nt to h$&e $n
un"ert$n"in3 of 0h$t the p$tient, pro1(e4 i. -h$t i the "i$3noi@ th$t i# 0h$t pre"$te or (e$" u
to the proper tre$t4ent# or the effect of reo(ution of the pro1(e48 So to not 2no0 0h$t the "i$3noi
$n" tre$t4ent $re 1ut ti(( reco44en" th$t th$t $th(ete p$rticip$te in the 3$4e 4$2e $1o(ute(' no
/. No0# 'ou,re $0$re# thou3h# th$t !r. +hi((ip "i" 4eet 0ith Dr. !urr$' on the $fternoon of June
A. 7e.
/. An" 0h$t i 'our un"ert$n"in3 $ to 0hether !r. +hi((ip recei&e" $n $n0er to hi Euetion to Dr.
A. -e((# 4' un"ert$n"in3 fro4 the tri$( teti4on' i th$t he "i"n,t recei&e $n $n0er.
/. ;he tri$( teti4on' of 0ho8
A. !r. +hi((ip.
/. -h$t, 'our reco((ection th$t 'ou,re 1$in3 'our opinion on8
A. !r. +hi((ip, teti4on' th$t he $2e" Dr. !urr$' 0h$t the pro1(e4 0$# $n" Dr. !urr$' in"ic$te"
he 0$n,t cert$in. It cou(" 1e the f(u.
/. An" 0h$t i the i4p(ic$tion of th$t# if $n'thin3# for the purpoe of 'our opinion8
A. -e((# o1&iou('# !r. +hi((ip i in&o(&e" in tr'in3 to 4$n$3e the he$(thc$re pro1(e4. Aut in $""ition#

the f$ct th$t there, no "i$3noi preent $t the point 0hen thee he$(th concern $re 1ein3 r$ie"# 1ut
'et !r. J$c2on i 1ein3 put 1$c2 into rehe$r$(# thoe $(to3ether $re $ concern.
/. No0# if 'ou 3o to the ne)t e4$i( on e)hi1it 31B# !r. Gon3$0$re repon"in3 to !r. +hi((ip# 'ou ee
A. 7e# I "o. ;hi i fro4 !r. Gon3$0$re to !r. +hi((ip# $n" it $'? 5He is not a !sychiatrist5 99
/. If 'ou 3o "o0n 99
A. I,4 orr'.
/. 99 $ctu$(('# to the one 1e(o0 th$t.
A. 7e. ;hi i !r. Gon3$0$re to !r. +hi((ip? 5Take the doctor with you. #hy wasn't he there last
/. An" i there $n'thin3 4$teri$( $1out th$t 0ith re3$r" to 'our conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i8
A. 7e. ;o 4e# it, 4$teri$( 1ec$ue !r. Gon3$0$re i $'in3# 5;$2e the "octor 0ith 'ou.5 in other
0or"# it, $nother in"ic$tion of the eroion of the in"epen"ent "eciion94$2in3 of the "octor.
/. -h'8 C$n 'ou =ut e)p($in th$t8
A. -e((# to 5;$2e the "octor 0ith 'ou5 i $'in3 0e 0$nt the "octor 99 o 0e,&e $(re$"' in"ic$te" in
e4$i( th$t the "octor h$ 1een 1rou3ht into the fo(". -e 0$nt the "octor to co4e 0ith u to thi
4eetin3 4e$n th$t 0e 0$nt to h$&e o4e input in the 4e"ic$( "eciion94$2in3. -e 0$nt to inf(uence
th$t co44unic$tion or con&er$tion. -e 0$nt to 1e p$rt of it.
/. Cou("n,t it =ut 1e th$t if 99 "i" 'ou coni"er it cou(" 1e =ut 3et infor4$tion fro4 the "octor $1out
0h$t the pro1(e4 i8
A. -e((# th$t in $n" of ite(f 4$' not 1e $ppropri$te.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue it ti(( cou(" 1e interference 0ith the "octor, "eciion94$2in3. ;he "octor $i" $t one point#
5I 0$nt to ho(" !r. J$c2on out of rehe$r$(#5 $n" th$t, $ 4e"ic$( "eciion. So to 5;$2e the "octor 0ith
'ou5 in"ic$te th$t AEG ti(( inten" to 4$n$3e the "octor, $cti&itie.
/. No0# in the conte)t# I," (i2e to =ut $2 'ou $1out 0hether the conte)t of thi p$rticu($r erie of
e&ent 4$tter. An" 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' $1out the fin$nci$( conf(ict of interet th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$
un"er. Doe th$t f$ctor 99 "oe th$t conte)t enter into 'our opinion re($tin3 to thi e4$i(8
A. It "oe# in the ene th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ conf(icte". An" hi conf(ict 0$ 1et0een 4eetin3 the nee"
th$t AEG reEuire" 99 h$" for hi4 or reEuire"# $n" 4eetin3 the he$(th nee" of !r. J$c2on. Aut he
nee"e" to 99 he nee"e" to honor the contr$ct th$t he h$" et up to3ether 0ith AEG A' "oin3 0h$t the'
0$nte"# $n" th$t p($ce" hi4 in conf(ict# $n" he 0$ (i2e(' to 1e inf(uence" 1' th$t interet 1ec$ue he
0$nte" hi contr$ct to not 1e ter4in$te".

/. No0# i there $nother e4$i( on the top of e)hi1it 31B th$t 'ou coni"ere" to 1e 4$teri$(8
A. 7e. ;h$t, the one fro4 +$u( Gon3$0$re to <$n"' +hi((ip th$t $' 99
/. Other 0$' $roun"# ir.
A. 7e. 6ro4 <$n"' +hi((ip to +$u( Gon3$0$re? 5he i not $ p'chi$trit o I,4 not ure ho0 effecti&e
he c$n 1e $t thi point.5
/. No0# thi 99
Mr. #loss$ *+ * can as. +or exhiit 30/0 pa)e 10 to e rou)ht up. 1nd speci+icall!0 the +irst
para)raph o+ that email.
/. -e 0ere =ut t$(2in3 $1out th$t one. ;h$t 0$ the one fro4 <$n"' +hi((ip to !r. Orte3$@ i th$t
A. I,4 orr'. -hich e4$i(8
/. 30:. ;he e4$i( fro4 !r. +hi((ip to !r. Orte3$ $1out not 1eco4in3 $4$teur p'chi$trit.
A. 7e. I 2no0 the e4$i( 'ou 4e$n# 'e.
/. A(( ri3ht. It, up on the creen# $ctu$(('# if th$t 0ou(" he(p 'ou $t $((. A. Fere 0e 3o (in"ic$tin3*.
A. 7e.
/. No0# firt of $((# the e)hi1it 31B# 5He is not a !sychiatrist#5 0ho "o 'ou un"ert$n" th$t to 1e
referrin3 to8 -h$t in"i&i"u$(8
A. !r. +hi((ip# I 1e(ie&e# i referrin3 to Dr. !urr$'.
/. A(( ri3ht. No0# in co4p$rin3 or coni"erin3 e)hi1it 31B 99 $n" 'ou h$&e $n un"ert$n"in3 $ to the
ti4in3 of thee t0o e4$i( fro4 !r. +hi((ip to !r. Gon3$0$re# firt of $((# $n" the e4$i( fro4 !r.
+hi((ip to !r. Orte3$8
A. !' un"ert$n"in3# the e4$i( to !r. Orte3$ c$4e 1efore the one to !r. Gon3$0$re 1' 4$'1e 15
/. A(( ri3ht.
Mr. #loss$ -ust +or the record0 !our honor0 exhiit 318 is the one on the top o+ that screen0 and
30/ is on the ottom o+ the screen.
-ud)e$ 2han. !ou.
/. An" Dr. !$theon# in co4p$rin3 thee t0o e4$i( i"e 1' i"e# i there $n'thin3 $1out thi th$t 'ou

1e(ie&e thee t0o e4$i( $re 4$teri$( to 'our opinion8
A. -e((# in the firt e4$i( fro4 !r. +hi((ip to !r. Orte3$# he i re$((' $'in3# 5Don,t 1e $ "octor. -e,&e
3ot thi co&ere". Dr. !urr$' i our "octor. 7ou "on,t 0$nt to 1e $n $4$teur p'chi$trit or ph'ici$n.5
An" then $ fe0 4inute ($ter# he, $'in3# 5Dr. !urr$' i not $ p'chi$trit. I,4 not ure ho0 effecti&e
he c$n 1e.5 -hich# to 4e# in"ic$te !r. +hi((ip i 0on"erin3 0hether the' h$&e the ri3ht "octor#
0hether he c$n 1e effecti&e. So to 4e# thoe $re t0o &er' "ifferent opinion# 1ec$ue the one th$t 3oe
to !r. Orte3$ $'in3# 5&on't worry, we've got this covered, you don't need to worry about this or be
involved5@ the ne)t e4$i( $'# 5$'m not certain we have the right !erson.5
/. Fo0 "oe th$t 4$tter for conf(ict of interet# if it "oe8
A. -e((# it ee4 to 4e <$n"' +hi((ip i $'in3 t0o "ifferent thin3 0ithin the conf(ict9of9interet
en&iron4ent. ;he firt 4e$3e to !r. Orte3$ i to puh 1$c2 $n" $'# 5Don,t 1eco4e in&o(&e" in thi.5
$t the $4e ti4e# he, $'in3# 5I,4 not cert$in 0e "o h$&e thi co&ere" the ri3ht 0$'.5
/. An" 0h$t 99 'ou,&e re&ie0e" $ u1t$nti$( $4ount of e&i"ence in thi 4$tter# h$&e 'ou not8
A. 7e.
/. -h$t e&i"ence h$&e 'ou re&ie0e" th$t in"ic$te th$t !r. +hi((ip $tte4pte" to reo(&e th$t iue8
A. ;here, $ coup(e of thin3. 7ou 4e$n the initi$( 4eetin38
/. An'thin3.
A. An'thin3. ;here 0$ $ 4eetin3 th$t 0$ he("@ there 0$ $ phone c$(( th$t 0$ he(". Specific$(('
fro4 !r. +hi((ip# 'ou 4e$n8
/. 7e.
A. ;he 4eetin3 $n" the phone c$((.
/. -e((# ho0 "o thoe 99 i there $n'thin3 th$t h$ppene"# th$t 'ou,re $0$re of# $t the 4eetin3 or the
phone c$((# 1$e" on 'our re&ie0 of teti4on'# th$t $ctu$((' "i" reo(&e the iue of 0hether Dr. !urr$'
0$ the ri3ht "octor8
A. I "on,t 1e(ie&e it 0$ e&er effecti&e(' reo(&e".
/. -e((# $ 'ou un"ert$n" it# 0$ there $ "i$3noi 1' Dr. !urr$' of 0h$t the pro1(e4 0ith !r.
J$c2on h$" 1een8
A. No. I "on,t 1e(ie&e there 0$ $ "i$3noi.
/. An" i th$t i4port$nt $t $(( for the purpoe of 'our conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i8
A. It, critic$((' i4port$nt# 1ec$ue the "eciion to return o4eone in p$rticip$tion i tot$((' "epen"$nt
on the "i$3noi# the n$ture of the pro1(e4# $n" 0h$t the $ppropri$te tre$t4ent i.

/. No0# Dr. !$theon# there i $(o $nother p$rt of 99 or re($te" p$rt to the 5trou1(e $t the front5 e4$i(
ch$in# e)hi1it 30C. 7ou h$&e th$t in front of 'ou8
A. I "o. ;h$n2 'ou.
/. -h$t "o 'ou un"ert$n" e)hi1it 30C to 1e8
A. E)hi1it 30C i $n e4$i( fro4 <$n"' +hi((ip to !ich$e( 2$ne $n" John Ar$nc$# ;i4 Lei0e2e# +$u(
Gon3$0$re. It $' $ coup(e of thin3 in it. ;here, 99 firt of $((# there, $ t$te4ent in the firt (ine th$t
$'# 5The doctor was fantastic.5 An" th$t tri2e 4e $ unuu$(# 1ec$ue I 0ou(" thin2 $ f$nt$tic
"octor 0ou(" 4$2e $ "i$3noi $n" 0ou(" 2no0 0h$t the proper tre$t4ent i# o 99
/. -e((# i $ t$te4ent th$t 99 (et, $u4e for the purpoe of 'our opinion th$t the "octor $'#
5;here, no pro1(e4. !ich$e( i fine. Fe c$n 3o on to pr$ctice.5 I th$t $ "i$3noi8
A. No# it, not $ "i$3noi.
/. -h$t i th$t8
A. ;h$t, =ut e)$ct(' 0h$t 'ou $i" it i. It, 1uine $ uu$(. Let, 3o on 0ith the tour. Let, 3o on
0ith the rehe$r$(.
/. A(( ri3ht. No0# "i" 'ou un"ert$n" 99 "i" 'ou re&ie0 $nother e4$i( 0here !r. Ar$nc$ offere" to
connect !r. 99 pro&i"e the n$4e of $ u1t$nce9$1ue coune(or8
A. I "i". C$n I $' one 4ore thin3 $1out thi e4$i(8
/. Of coure.
A. ;here, $(o# to 4e# thi continue" puh1$c2 in here 0here he 99 !r. +hi((ip $'# 5enny's hysteria
will be in check.5 An" $ (itt(e (o0er "o0n# it $'# 5Things are not as bleak as enny's emails.5 o !r.
Orte3$ h$ preente" o4e 4e"ic$( infor4$tion# put it for0$r"# 5-e nee" to 1e concerne" $1out thi
he$(th pro1(e4 th$t I,4 0itnein3 0ith !r. J$c2on.5 $n" th$t i preente" 1' !r. +hi((ip# or it,
Eu$(ifie" 1' !r. +hi((ip $ h'teri$# not $ 1(e$2 $ it $'. So I thin2 in $ conf(ict9of9interet
en&iron4ent# 0h$t 'ou 0$nt to "o 0hen 'ou 3et infor4$tion th$t co4e for0$r" $1out the he$(th of
o4eone# i 'ou 0$nt to chec2 out th$t infor4$tion r$ther th$n ($1e( it $ h'teri$ or e)cei&e(' 1(e$2.
So to 4e# th$t, $""ition$( puh1$c2.
/. No0# there i $(o $ (ine $t the en"? 5'ohn, now is not the right time to introduce a new !erson into
his life.5 Do 'ou ee th$t8
A. 7e# I "o.
/. -h$t "o 'ou un"ert$n" th$t to 1e referrin3 to8
A. ;h$t, !r. +hi((ip in"ic$tin3 to !r. Ar$nc$ th$t# "epite the u33etion of in&o(&in3 $n $""ition$(
4e"ic$( peron to o(&e the pro1(e4# 4$2e $ "i$3noi# he(p 0ith tre$t4ent# th$t it, not the ti4e to "o
th$t. So th$t i puh1$c2 in the tron3et ter4.

/. An"# no0# thi 99 !r. +hi((ip h$" $tten"e" $ 4eetin3 0ith Dr. !urr$' $n" !r. J$c2on 1' thi ti4e.
I th$t 'our un"ert$n"in38
A. 7e.
/. No0# I," (i2e to $2 $ coup(e of Euetion $1out# in conf(ict $n$('i# ho0 99 0h$t 2in" of 0ei3ht 'ou
put on the p$tient, interet# or the p$tient, o0n reEuet. I t$2e it th$t $ $ port 4e"icine "octor#
there 4$' 1e $ ti4e or t0o 0hen 'ou h$&e "eci"e" th$t it 0$ 4e"ic$((' $"&i$1(e to t$2e $n $th(ete out
of the 3$4e.
A. 7e.
/. An" the $th(ete "i"n,t 0$nt to.
A. Correct.
/. F$ th$t e&er h$ppene" to 'ou8
A. ;h$t h$ h$ppene".
/. -ithout 3i&in3 $n' n$4e or pri&$c' iue# c$n 'ou =ut 3i&e u $n e)$4p(e8
A. ;h$t, $ co44on e)$4p(e. ;here $re &er' fe0 $th(ete in the 4i""(e of the 3$4e $n" he$t of the
1$tt(e 0ho 0$nt to 1e re4o&e" fro4 th$t# for $ nu41er of re$on? ;he',&e prep$re" for the 3$4e@ it
cou(" 1e $ &er' i4port$nt 3$4e to the4. ;heir f$4i(' 4i3ht 1e &iitin3 $n" in the t$n" for the firt
ti4e. It cou(" 1e th$t the' fin$((' 4$"e the roter# 1ec$ue the p($'er $1o&e the4 i in=ure"# $n" the'
0$nt to pro&e the4e(&e@ it cou(" 1e it, o4ethin3 th$t 0ou(" inf(uence their ch$nce for in&o(&e4ent
in $ hi3her (e$3ue the ne)t 'e$r. Aut there $re (ot $n" (ot of preure to not 1e re4o&e" i44e"i$te('
fro4 the 3$4e.
/. An" h$&e 'ou 99 0h$t i the ph'ici$n, ro(e in th$t circu4t$nce8
A the ph'ici$n, ro(e i to "o the ri3ht thin3 1oth in the hort9ter4 $n" for (on39ter4 he$(th $n" 4$2e
the "eciion 1$e" on thoe f$ctor.
/. F$&e 'ou e&er t$2en $n $th(ete out of $ 3$4e $n" he or he 3ot 4$" $t 'ou8
A. 7e. A1o(ute('.
/ h$&e 'ou e&er t$2en $n $th(ete out of the 3$4e 0ho 3ot 4$" $t 'ou 0ho o4eti4e ($ter h$" the
ch$nce to co44unic$te 0ith 'ou ($ter $3$in8
A. 7e. I,&e h$" (etter fro4 $th(ete 4onth $n" 'e$r ($ter# $'in3# 5th$n2 'ou for t$2in3 4e out of the
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue the' "i"n,t h$&e the perpecti&e $t the ti4e the in=ur' occurre".

/. No0# if 99 I 0$nt 'ou to $u4e# for the purpoe of 'our opinion# th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ hire" 1'
AEG Li&e $t the 1ehet of !ich$e( J$c2on. If th$t 99 if the hirin3 of Dr. !urr$' 0$ "one $t the 1ehet
of !r. J$c2on# "oe th$t $ffect 'our opinion8
A. No.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue AEG Di"n,t h$&e to cre$te th$t $rr$n3e4ent. ;he' choe to et up th$t tructure# $n" the'
"i"n,t h$&e to "o th$t.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 $ to 0ho u(ti4$te(' 0$ 3oin3 to 1e reponi1(e for Dr. !urr$',
fee if the re($tionhip h$" continue" $n" the tour h$" continue"8
A. !' un"ert$n"in3 i th$t AEG, cot th$t 0ere fronte" 0ou(" 1e recoupe" 0hen re&enue c$4e in
fro4 the tour.
/. <ecoupe" fro4 0ho8
A. 6ro4 the procee" of the tour.
/. An" 0ou(" th$t 1e !r. J$c2on# effecti&e('# rep$'in3 AEG Li&e8
A. I preu4e it 0ou(".
/. If $(( of th$t i true 99 $n" $u4e it i for the purpoe of 'our opinion 99 "oe th$t $ffect 'our
opinion in $n' 0$'8
A. No# it "oen,t.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue the conf(ict of interet 0$ ti(( the $4e.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n un"ert$n"in3 0hether Dr. !urr$' 0$ $ctu$((' e&er p$i" $n'thin3 fro4 AEG
A. I "on,t 1e(ie&e he 0$ e&er $ctu$((' p$i".
/. Doe th$t $ffect 'our opinion8
A. No# it "oen,t.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue he 0$ oper$tin3 $ if he 0$ 3oin3 to 1e p$i".
/. An" 'ou,&e re&ie0e" the contr$ct th$t Dr. !urr$' i3ne"# h$&e 'ou not8

A. 7e# I h$&e.
/. An" there i ($n3u$3e in th$t th$t 99 0here Dr. !urr$' $' th$t he 0i(( pro&i"e hi3h Eu$(it' 4e"ic$(
c$re@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. -h' i $ non4e"ic$( pro&i"er 99 0ithDr$0n. Fo0 "oe th$t ($n3u$3e $ffect 'our opinion $ to $
conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i# if it "oe8
A. It "oen,t $ffect 4' opinion.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue $(thou3h 0e e)pect $(( profeion$( to oper$te $t $ cert$in (e&e(# 0hen p($ce" in $ conf(ict9
of9interet en&iron4ent# the ree$rch ho0 th$t their =u"34ent i often $ffecte".
/. If $ non4e"ic$( co4p$n' chooe 99 ee2 to hire $ ph'ici$n to tre$t $ thir" peron# $re there tep
th$t the co4p$n' c$n t$2e to re"uce the ri2 of conf(ict of interet8
A. 7e# there $re.
/. Jut u44$ri>e the4# if 'ou c$n.
A. ;he firt thin3 th$t I 0ou(" "o# if I 0$ $ co4p$n' (i2e th$t# i I 0ou(" 3o to $ cre"i1(e 4e"ic$(
intitution th$t $(re$"' e)it th$t "oe thi. 6or e)$4p(e# I t$(2e" to o4eone fro4 the %CLA !e"ic$(
center to tr' to put to3ether $ te$4 th$t 0ou(" pro&i"e co4preheni&e he$(thc$re. I 0ou("n,t nece$ri('
tr' to "e&e(op th$t e)pertie 0ithin the co4p$n' 0hen it $(re$"' e)it e(e0here.
/. -e((# ho0 "oe th$t re"uce the ri2 of conf(ict of interet8
A. It 4e$n th$t the 4e"ic$( "eciion $re in"epen"ent. ;he',re not tie" to the pro"ucer.
/. An" "o 'ou ee 99 1$e" on 'our re&ie0 of $n' of the e&i"ence in thi c$e# "o 'ou ee $n' effort $t
$(( to 4iti3$te conf(ict of interet8
A. No# I "on,t.
Mr. #loss$ * ha3e no other 4uestions. 2han. !ou0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ 1ll ri)ht. 2han. !ou. Cross examination.
Ms. %teins$ 5es0 !our honor.
Cross examination ! -essica %teins$

/. Goo" 4ornin3# Dr. !$theon.
A. Goo" 4ornin3.
/. I,4 3oin3 to t$rt to"$' 1$c2in3 up $ (itt(e 1it to "e$( 0ith o4e of the thin3 0e t$(2e" $1out
'eter"$'. An" 'ou t$(2e" 'eter"$' $1out the i"e$ of fin$nci$( conf(ict@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou tetifie" th$t o4eone 0ho nee" $ =o1 i 4ore (i2e(' to $ct unethic$((' th$n o4eone 0ho
"oen,t nee" $ =o1@ i th$t ri3ht8
A. I thin2 there, the $4ount of 4one' in the fin$nci$( conf(ict or in the p$'4ent $ 0e(( $ the nee"
th$t peron h$# correct.
/. So th$t, $ 5'e#5 peop(e 0ho nee" =o1 $re 4ore (i2e(' to 1e unethic$(# $t (e$t $ (itt(e 1it# th$n
peop(e 0ho "on,t nee" their =o18
A. +eop(e 0ho nee" inco4e# 'e.
/. Aut# o1&iou('# the &$t 4$=orit' of peop(e 0or2in3 nee" the inco4e fro4 their =o1@ ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" 0e "on,t e)pect $(( peop(e to 1eh$&e unethic$((' =ut 1ec$ue the' nee" their =o18 A correct. /
$n" in f$ct# o4eone, peron$( fin$nci$( 0e$(th i not 3ener$((' $ f$ctor th$t, i4port$nt in "eter4inin3
$ "octor, co4petence# i it8
A. Cou(" 'ou repe$t th$t8
/. Sure. So4eone, peron$( fin$nci$( itu$tion i not 3ener$((' coni"ere" i4port$nt in "eter4inin3
0hether the',re profeion$((' co4petent or not8
Mr. #loss$ * o'ect to +orm0 !our honor. *s the 6someone6 the doctor,
Ms. %teins$ 5es0 the doctor.
-ud)e$ &.a!. %ustained 77 o3erruled.
A. No# not nece$ri('. Correct.
/. 6or int$nce# 'our uni&erit'# St$nfor"# "oen,t run peron$( cre"it chec2 0hen it hire ph'ici$n@
A. I,4 not ure of th$t. I "ou1t the' "o.

/. 7ou "on,t 1e(ie&e the' "o8
A. I "on,t 1e(ie&e the' "o.
/. 7ou "i"n,t h$&e to i3n per4iion to h$&e 'our cre"it run 0hen St$nfor" hire" 'ou8
A. No.
/. An" ph'ici$n 0ho 0or2 $t St$nfor"# the' h$&e to "ic(oe if the',&e 1een ue" for 4e"ic$(
4$(pr$ctice 1ut not if the',&e 1een in&o(&e" in o4e other 2in" of ($0uit th$t, not re($te" to 4e"ic$(
c$re@ ri3ht8
A. I,4 not ure of th$t.
/. 7ou "on,t 1e(ie&e o8
A. I,4 not cert$in 0hether the' h$&e to "ic(oe other ($0uit th$t $re non4e"ic$( or not.
/. O2$'. So 'ou "on,t 2no0 one 0$' or $nother8
A. I "on,t 2no0 one 0$' or $nother.
/. Di" $n'one $2 'ou to "ic(oe peron$( ($0uit 0hen 'ou 0ere hire"8
A. No.
/. An" "i" 'ou $' $t 'our "epoition th$t 'ou "i"n,t 1e(ie&e th$t th$t 0$ $ reEuire4ent8
A. 7e. I "i" $' th$t# correct.
/. So St$nfor" %ni&erit'# $t (e$t# "oen,t p($ce $ (ot of i4port$nce on $ ph'ici$n, fin$nci$(
circu4t$nce 1efore the' hire th$t ph'ici$n8
A. +ro1$1(' not.
/. An" !r. A(o# hi co((e$3ue# the' "i"n,t run $ cre"it chec2 on 'ou 1efore ret$inin3 'our er&ice in
thi c$e# "i" the'8
A. Not th$t I,4 $0$re of.
/. -e((# 'ou 0ou(" h$&e to i3n per4iion for it. 7ou "i" not i3n $ per4iion for48
A. I "i" not i3n per4iion.
/. No0# 0e c$n $(o $3ree# Dr. !$theon# ri3ht# th$t Dr. !urr$' $n" !ich$e( J$c2on, re($tionhip
(on3 pre"$te" $n' cont$ct 1et0een AEG Li&e $n" Dr. !urr$'@ ri3ht8
A. I 1e(ie&e it 0$ $1out three 'e$r.

/. Dr. !urr$' t$rte" tre$tin3 !r. J$c2on $n" hi chi("ren 1$c2 in 200G8
A. 7e.
/. An" in 200D !r. J$c2on 0$ p($nnin3 on 3oin3 to Lon"on for the ;hi I It tour8
A. 7e.
/. +($nnin3 to 1rin3 hi chi("ren 0ith hi48
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou 0ou(" $3ree th$t# in 3ener$(# $ co4petent 509'e$r9o(" 4$n i Eu$(ifie" to chooe hi o0n
ph'ici$n@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" !r. J$c2on 0$nte" Dr. !urr$' to co4e to Lon"on 0ith hi4@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Fe peron$((' reEuete" Dr. !urr$' $n" $2e" AEG Li&e to "o $ "e$( 0ith hi4@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" Dr. !urr$'# un(i2e $ te$4 "octor# 0$ =ut 3oin3 to 1e tre$tin3 !r. J$c2on $n" hi f$4i('@
A. I 1e(ie&e o.
/. 7ou h$&en,t een $n' e&i"ence he 0$ 3oin3 to 1e tre$tin3 Kenn' Orte3$8
A. Correct.
/. Or K$ren 6$'e8
A. Correct.
/. ;r$&i +$'ne8
A. Correct.
/. No1o"'@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. Other th$n !r. J$c2on $n" hi f$4i('8
A. 7e.

/. No0# 'ou," $(o $3ree 0ith 4e 99 $n" 0e,(( t$(2 $ (itt(e 1it 4ore $1out thi ($ter 99 1ut =ut $ $ 4$tter
of $rith4etic# Dr. !urr$' 0$ 3oin3 to 1e p$i" 4onth('@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" if the tour 0ere c$nce(e" or potpone"# he 0ou(" 1e ter4in$te"# $ the 0ho(e tour 0ou(" 1e
ter4in$te"# $n" no one 0ou(" 1e p$i" $n'4ore@ ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. So Dr. !urr$', fin$nci$( interet 0$ in 4$2in3 ure !r. J$c2on 0$ he$(th' enou3h to p($' the
entire tour@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aec$ue if he p($'e" $(( 50 ho0# th$t, the 0$' th$t Dr. !urr$' 0ou(" 4$2e the 4ot 4one'8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, the 0$' th$t !r. J$c2on 0ou(" 4$2e the 4ot 4one'# too# 0$ to p($' $(( 50 ho08
A. 7e. If th$t 0$ the 3o$(.
/. An" the $4e for AEG Li&e8
A. 7e.
/. So it 0$ in e&er'1o"', interet th$t !r. J$c2on 1e he$(th' enou3h to p($' the entire ho0 0ithout
inci"ent@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. If th$t 0ere poi1(e8
A. 7e.
/. Dr. !$theon# 'our pri4$r' $re$ of e)pertie i port 4e"icine@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. An" 'ou,&e 1een in th$t fie(" $ (on3 ti4e# $n" 'ou,re one of the (e$"in3 peop(e in the countr' in th$t
fie("@ ri3ht8
A. I,&e 1een in the fie(" $ (on3 ti4e# 'e.
/. An" 'ou,re offerin3 opinion in thi c$e re($tin3 to conf(ict of interet $n" ethic$( conf(ict@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.

/. Aut 'ou,re not $n e)pert in 3ener$( 4e"ic$( ethic outi"e of the port conte)t@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. 7ou h$&en,t un"er3one $n' peci$(i>e" tr$inin3 in 4e"ic$( ethic outi"e 0h$t e&er'one "oe in
4e"ic$( choo(8
A. No.
/. An" 'ou h$&en,t pu1(ihe" in the $re$ of 4e"ic$( ethic# other th$n the $rtic(e 0e,&e t$(2e" $1out $
(itt(e 1it to"$' in the return9to9p($' "eciion in the port conte)t@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. So 'our un"ert$n"in3 of 4e"ic$( ethic# it, f$ir to $'# i 1$e" prett' 4uch entire(' on 'our 0or2
in the port in"utr' $n" thoe return9to9p($' "eciion# p(u o4e (iter$ture 'ou,&e re$"8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ 0h' p($intiff pic2e" 'ou to tetif' $ $n e)pert inte$" of o4eone 0ith $
1ro$"er e)perience in 4e"ic$( ethic8
A. I thin2 it, 1ec$ue the p$r$((e( 0ere the three90$' re($tionhip.
/. An" o the' c$4e to 'ou 0ith thi i"e$ th$t there 0$ $ three90$' re($tionhip $n$(o3ou to the
port in"utr'8
A. I preu4e th$t, 0h' the' choe 4e# 'e.
/. An" $(( of 'our opinion in thi c$e $re 1$e" on "ocu4ent th$t p($intiff, coune( h$ pro&i"e"
'ou 0ith@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. No0# 'ou t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it to"$' $1out the teti4on' 'ou re&ie0e". F$&e 'ou re&ie0e" $(( the tri$(
teti4on' in thi c$e8
A. No.
/. -h$t h$&e 'ou re&ie0e" fro4 the tri$( th$t the =uror h$&e $ctu$((' een8
A. I,&e re&ie0e" "etecti&e 4$rtine>, tri$( teti4on' $n" $ i3nif 99 pro1$1(' h$(f of !r. +hi((ip, tri$(
/. F$(f. Fo0 4$n' "$', 0orth@ "o 'ou rec$((8 Aec$ue he 0$ here $ (on3 ti4e.
A. ;hree "$'. An" 2$i ch$e, tri$( teti4on'. A (itt(e 1it of ;r$&i +$'ne,.

/. Fo0 4uch of ;r$&i +$'ne,8
A. A1out one thir" of it.
/. An" "o 'ou 2no0 ho0 the portion of ;r$&i +$'ne, teti4on' th$t 'ou re&ie0e"# ho0 p($intiff
"eci"e" 0h$t to 3i&e 'ou of th$t8
A. No. ;h$t 0$ =ut 4e re&ie0in3 $ thir" of it. I 1e(ie&e the' 3$&e 4e the entire tr$ncript.
/. 7ou =ut "i"n,t 3et throu3h $(( of it8
A. Correct.
/. Di" the' te(( 'ou to (oo2 $t $n' p$rt in p$rticu($r8
A. No.
/. An'1o"' e(e,8
A. I thin2 th$t, $((.
/. So not +$u( Gon3$0$re8
A. Correct.
/. Not St$c' -$(2er8
A. Correct.
/. Not Sh$0n ;re((8
A. Correct.
/. No0# "i" 'ou re$" $(( of Detecti&e !$rtine>, teti4on'# or =ut o4e of it8
A. I re$" $(( of it.
/. No0# Dr. !$theon# 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$'# $n" I "on,t thin2 'ou,(( "ipute it to"$'# 'ou,re not $n
e)pert in the concert in"utr'@ correct8
A. Correct.
/. An" 'ou,&e ne&er 1een hire" $ $ ph'ici$n for $ concert tour8
A. Correct.
/. Ne&er 0or2e" in the entert$in4ent in"utr'# e&en outi"e of 0h$t 'ou coni"er 99 ep$r$tin3 port
$n" entert$in4ent# 'ou,&e ne&er 0or2e" in the entert$in4ent i"e of the entert$in4ent in"utr'8

A. Correct.
/. An" for 'our opinion in thi c$e# 'ou "i" not re(' on $n' 4e"ic$( pu1(ic$tion $1out the
perfor4in3 $rt# (i2e "$nce $n" 4uic@ ri3ht8
A. Correct. I h$&e pu1(ihe" $1out cirEue "u o(ei(# 0hich i $ prett' $th(etic perfor4in3 3roup.
/. So 'ou pu1(ihe" $1out 0or2in3 for cirEue 99 or 0h$t "i" 'ou pu1(ih $1out cirEue8
A. It 0$ re($te" to 4e"ic$( con"ition to opti4i>e tre$t4ent $n" (oo2 $fter their he$(th.
/. Di" 'ou 0or2 0ith cirEue perfor4er in co4in3 up 0ith th$t pu1(ic$tion8
A. I 0or2e" 0ith peop(e th$t 0or2e" 0ith cirEue# 1ut not "irect(' in their perfor4$nce# correct.
/. So 'ou 0ere $ fe0 tep re4o&e"8
A. 7e.
/. 7ou,re not $ 4e41er of the perfor4in3 $rt 4e"ic$( $oci$tion# $re 'ou8
A. No.
/. An" $re 'ou f$4i(i$r 0ith the 4e"ic$( pro1(e4 of perfor4in3 $rtit =ourn$(8
A. No.
/. So 'ou "i"n,t re&ie0 $n'thin3 fro4 th$t =ourn$( in prep$r$tion for teti4on' here8
A. No.
/. -h$t $1out the te)t1oo2 of perfor4in3 $rt 4e"icine8
A. No.
/. ;he =ourn$( of "$nce 4e"icine $n" cience8
A. No. I,4 $0$re of the =ourn$(# 1ut# no# I "i"n,t re&ie0 $n'thin3.
/. So 'ou,re 1$in3 'our opinion o(e(' on 'our port e)perience $n" not on the (iter$ture re($tin3 to
the perfor4in3 $rt $n" 4e"icine@ i th$t f$ir to $'8
A. Cou(" 'ou repe$t th$t one 4ore ti4e8
/. Sure. 7ou,re 1$in3 'our opinion in thi c$e on 'our e)perience in the port $ren$ $n" not on the
(iter$ture pecific$((' t$r3ete" $t the re($tionhip 1et0een 4e"icine $n" the perfor4in3 $rt8
A. I,4 1$in3 4' opinion on 4' e)perience in port 4e"icine# 1ut the (iter$ture th$t I h$&e re$"
inc(u"e $re$ outi"e of port 4e"icine.

/. Aut nothin3 pecific to perfor4in3 $rt8 ;h$t, $(( I,4 tr'in3 to et$1(ih here.
A. 7e. Correct.
/. An" in the port $ren$# 'ou h$&e $ &er' 3oo" un"ert$n"in3 of $(( of the p($'er in&o(&e"# $n" their
ro(e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. I thin2 'ou tetifie"# $t St$nfor" 'ou $ctu$((' et up the 'te4 th$t h$n"(e St$nfor" $th(etic# $n"
ho0 e&er'1o"' 0or2 to3ether@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut in the concert in"utr'# 'ou "on,t h$&e th$t un"ert$n"in38
A. Correct.
/. 7ou "on,t un"ert$n"# 3ener$(('# outi"e of thi c$e# ho0 tour pro"uction $re fun"e"8
A. Correct.
/. 7ou "on,t un"ert$n" 0h$t the i4p(e ro(e of the pro"ucer i &eru pro4oter &eru tour "irector
&eru the tour 4$n$3er# $(( of thoe "ifferent ro(e8
A. Correct.
/. An" 'ou on(' h$&e $n $&er$3e un"ert$n"in3 of 4e"ic$( ethic $n" conf(ict of interet outi"e of
the port conte)t@ ri3ht8
A. !' un"ert$n"in3 i th$t conf(ict of interet i $ 3ener$( princip(e# re3$r"(e of the fie(" 0ithin
0hich it, $pp(ie".
/. Aut 'our p$rticu($r e)pertie i ho0 it, $pp(ie" in the port conte)t8
A. Correct.
/. An" 0e,(( 3et to it in $ (itt(e 1it# 1ut conf(ict of interet co4e up in $ (ot of "ifferent $re$ in
4e"icine@ ri3ht8
A. 7e# the' "o.
/. 6or int$nce# o4eti4e $ p$rent 4i3ht 0$nt $ tre$t4ent for $ 4inor chi("# $n" the chi(" 0$nt $
"ifferent tre$t4ent# $n" the "octor h$ $ conf(ict there8
A. 7e.
/. Or $ ph$r4$ceutic$( co4p$n' 4i3ht offer free $4p(e of their pro"uct to 3i&e to p$tient# $n" $

"octor 4i3ht 1e 4ore inc(ine" to 3i&e out the free &erion r$ther th$n $ p$' &erion of 4e"icine@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" thee 2in" of interet $re co44on@ ri3ht8
A. ;he' $re co44on.
/. Another one 4i3ht 1e $n inur$nce co4p$n'# the' on(' 0$nt to p$' for one 2in" of tre$t4ent# $n"
the "octor thin2 the p$tient nee" o4ethin3 e(e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So e&er' "octor h$ to 4$n$3e thee 2in" of conf(ict prett' 4uch $(( the ti4e8
A. ;he 4$n$3e4ent i the "octor $n" the 'te4 $roun" the "octor# uu$(('.
/. Aut it i o4ethin3 th$t $(( "octor h$&e to "e$( 0ith8
A. 7e.
/. 6or int$nce# $re 'ou $0$re th$t o4e BC percent of pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n h$&e re($tionhip 0ith
ph$r4$ceutic$( co4p$nie8
A. I th$t current8
/. ;h$t, $ of thi 4onth# to 4' un"ert$n"in3.
A. 7e. It i hi3h.
/. An" o4ethin3 (i2e :2 percent of A4eric$n h$&e 4$n$3e"9c$re itu$tion 0here the inur$nce
co4p$n' h$ $ f$ir(' heft' $' in their 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'our un"ert$n"in3 of thoe 2in" of conf(ict in,t 1etter th$n $n' other ph'ici$n@ ri3ht8
A. +ro1$1(' not.
/. No0# 'ou $i" $ 4o4ent $3o# it, the 'te4, reponi1i(it' to "e$( 0ith thi. Aut it i in f$ct the
ph'ici$n, reponi1i(it' $n" the ph'ici$n, "ut' to put their p$tient firt re3$r"(e of the conf(ict of
interet@ ri3ht8
A. It i their "ut'.
/. An" in f$ct# ph'ici$n pecific$((' t$2e $n o$th# $ hippocr$tic o$th# to p($ce their p$tient, 0e(f$re
firt# no 4$tter 0h$t other concern co4e to p($'8
A. 7e.

/. No0# in o4e int$nce# $ "octor, profeion$( "ut'# the' reEuire th$t "octor to reit preure $n"
outi"e inf(uence@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. 6or int$nce# no 4$tter ho0 4uch preure 'ou 0ere un"er $t St$nfor" %ni&erit'# 'ou 0ou(" ne&er
3i&e $n $th(ete teroi" to 1oot hi perfor4$nce@ ri3ht8
A. I 0ou("n,t.
/. Aec$ue it 0ou(" 1e unethic$(8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou h$&e to 4$2e thoe 2in" of "eciion# e&en if 'ou 4i3ht fee( preure# to 4$2e the $th(ete
the 1et $th(ete he cou(" 1e8
A. I thin2 the $n0er to th$t i# $n'thin3 cou(" h$ppen one ti4e. If it h$ppen o&er $n" o&er# it ref(ect
$ 'te4 th$t in,t 0or2in3 correct('.
/. Aut 4' Euetion i th$t 'ou 0ou(" not "o th$t8
A. I 0ou(" (i2e to thin2 I 0ou("n,t# 'e.
/. 7ou 0ou(" ne&er 3i&e i((e3$( "ru3 to $ p($'er8
A. Correct.
/. An" 'ou 0ou(" ne&er "o o4ethin3 th$t 'ou 2ne0 4i3ht 1e h$r4fu( to $n $th(ete@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. No 4$tter 0h$t preure i put on 'ou8
A. I hope not.
/. An" thi u(ti4$te "ut' th$t $ "octor h$ to hi p$tient# th$t, o4ethin3 th$t e&er' "octor h$@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. 6or int$nce# in $ hippocr$tic o$th# "octor pro4ie not on(' to "o the 1et for their p$tient 1ut $(o
to repect their p$tient, pri&$c'8
A. 7e.
/. ;he' pro4ie th$t if the' c$n,t fi3ure out $ pro1(e4# the',(( c$(( in the 2i(( of their co((e$3ue to "o
0h$t, 1et for the p$tient8

A. 7e.
/. In 4ot 99 in 4$n' &erion of the hippocr$tic o$th# "octor further pro4ie th$t the' 0i(( not
2no0in3(' $"4initer $n' h$r4fu( "ru3 to their p$tient@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, p$rt of 0h$t e&er' "octor pro4ie 0hen the' enter thi profeion$( fie("@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. In 'our e)perience# "o 4ot "octor t$2e thi o1(i3$tion eriou('8
A. 7e. ;he' cert$in(' tr' to.
/. An" "o 'ou 1e(ie&e# th$t in 3ener$(# the pu1(ic h$ the ri3ht to re(' on "octor t$2in3 thi o1(i3$tion
A. I thin2 the pu1(ic, trut "epen" on $ nu41er of f$ctor# not =ut the "octor.
/. Aut "o 'ou thin2 th$t the pu1(ic hou(" 1e 99 h$ the ri3ht to re(' th$t "octor $re "oin3 0h$t "octor
$re uppoe" to "o8
A. 7e.
/. No0# Dr. !$theon# 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' th$t 'ou 0ent to 4e"ic$( choo( in c$n$"$. Aut $ $
ph'ici$n pr$cticin3 in the %nite" St$te# 'ou,re f$4i(i$r 0ith the $4eric$n 4e"ic$( $oci$tion@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" the' h$&e $ co"e of 4e"ic$( ethic@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, $nother et of ethic$( 3ui"e(ine th$t $pp(ie to 'ou $n" $n' other "octor pr$cticin3
4e"icine in the %nite" St$te8
A. 7e# it i.
/. Are 'ou f$4i(i$r 0ith the $4eric$n 4e"ic$( $oci$tion, conf(ict9of9interet po(ic' $n" 0h$t it $'
$1out fin$nci$( conf(ict of interet8
A. 7e# I,4 f$4i(i$r.
/. An" in f$ct# it $'? 5un"er no circu4t$nce 4$' ph'ici$n p($ce their o0n fin$nci$( interet
$1o&e the 0e(f$re of their p$tient.5 ri3ht8
A. Correct.

/. An" it further $' th$t? 5if $ conf(ict "e&e(op 1et0een the ph'ici$n, fin$nci$( interet# $n" the
ph'ici$n, reponi1i(itie to the p$tient# the conf(ict 4ut 1e reo(&e" to the p$tient, 1enefit.5 ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" th$t, prett' $1o(ute@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. ;he intruction fro4 the $4eric$n 4e"ic$( $oci$tion i th$t un"er no circu4t$nce c$n $
ph'ici$n $((o0 outi"e inf(uence to $ffect hi 4e"ic$( =u"34ent8
A. 7e$h. ;h$t, $ reco44en"$tion# I 1e(ie&e.
/. It, $ 99 it, $n $4eric$n 4e"ic$( co"e of ethic opinion8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" th$t, o4ethin3 e(e th$t peop(e t$2e eriou('@ ri3ht8
A. 7e# the' "o.
/. An" thi reco44en"$tion# $ 'ou put it# $pp(ie to 'ou $n" to $(( the "octor $t St$nfor"8
A. 7e# it "oe.
/. An" no 4$tter ho0 3re$t the conf(ict itu$tion 99 $n" 0e t$(2e" $1out $ (itt(e 1it $1out o4e of the
conf(ict "octor f$ce on $ "$i(' 1$i 99 "octor ti(( h$&e the $1i(it' to fo((o0 their profeion$( o$th@
A. ;heir $1i(it' 3et ero"e" in $ conf(ict9ofinteret itu$tion.
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e there $re "octor 0hoe $1i(it' i o ero"e" th$t the' no (on3er h$&e $ choice to $ct
A. ;h$t h$ppen# 'e.
/. So it, 'our opinion th$t $ "octor p($ce" in $ itu$tion of ufficient conf(ict =ut 1eco4e he(p(e8
A. ;heir $1i(it' to 4$2e "eciion 1eco4e ero"e". It cou(" en" up th$t the' fee( he(p(e# 'e. /. ;he'
ti(( h$&e $ "ut' $ profeion$(# ri3ht# to put the interet of their p$tient firt8
A. -e((# the "ut'# their 1eh$&ior# i $(o ero"e".
/. An" if the' 1re$2 thoe profeion$( o1(i3$tion# thou3h# the' c$n (oe their (icene@ correct8
A. 7e# the' c$n.
/. ;he' c$n (oe the repect of their co((e$3ue8

A. 7e.
/. ;heir p$tient8
A. 7e.
/. ;heir peer8
A. 7e.
/. If the' 1re$2 the o1(i3$tion to put their p$tient firt# no 4$tter 0h$t# the' h$&e eenti$((' &io($te"
the core purpoe of 1ein3 $ "octor@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, =ut not 0h$t "octor $re uppoe" to "o un"er $n' circu4t$nce@ correct8
A. Correct.
/. An" $ p$tient i entit(e" to e)pect th$t $ (icene" "octor i 3oin3 to honor hi profeion$( "ut' not
to h$r4 the4@ ri3ht8
A. I thin2 p$tient 3ener$((' e)pect th$t# 'e.
/. An" the' h$&e the ri3ht to e)pect th$t8
A. I 3ue the' h$&e the ri3ht.
/. A o4eone 0ho h$ een $ peron in $ profeion$( re3u($te" in"utr'# the' h$&e the ri3ht to e)pect
th$t if th$t peron h$ $ (icene# if th$t peron h$ not (ot th$t (icene# if th$t peron h$ not 1een
repri4$n"e"# the' $re $ctin3 in $ccor"$nce 0ith their profeion$( o$th8
A. 7e. I 0ou(" ue the 0or" 5e)pect$tion5 r$ther th$n 5ri3ht.5 1ut# 'e# th$t i their e)pect$tion.
/. Aut 'ou "on,t thin2 the p$tient h$ $ ri3ht to h$&e $ "octor th$t, tre$tin3 hi4 $ccor"in3 to hi
profeion$( o1(i3$tion8
A. I thin2 it, $ 3oo"# he$(th' e)pect$tion to trut 'our "octor.
/. An" in thi c$e# Dr. !urr$' h$" $ "ut' to pro&i"e proper 4e"ic$( c$re to !r. J$c2on. -e c$n $3ree
on th$t@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" $u4in3 th$t !r. J$c2on repe$te"(' reEuete" propofo( fro4 Dr. !urr$' $n" to(" Dr. !urr$'
th$t, 0h$t he 0$nte"# $n" the on(' thin3 he cou(" "o to (eep# Dr. !urr$' ti(( &io($te" hi profeion$(
"utie 1' 3i&in3 !r. J$c2on propofo(@ ri3ht8

A. I,4 not ure I c$n tetif' $ to th$t. Aut# 'e# I "o thin2 he &io($te" hi "utie.
/. -here i the "ou1t8
A. -e((# I,4 not re$((' offerin3 teti4on' on the 4e"ic$( c$re th$t 0$ pro&i"e".
/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t it, $ccept$1(e 4e"ic$( c$re to 3i&e $ p$tient $nethei$ in $ ho4e
A. No.
/. -ithout proper 4onitorin3 eEuip4ent8
A. No. A1o(ute(' not.
/. So $u4in3 th$t 0$ "one# 0ou(" 'ou $3ree th$t Dr. !urr$' &io($te" hi profeion$( "utie8
A. 7e.
/. Dr. !$theon# 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ in $ peci$(('
co4pro4iin3 con"ition 1ec$ue he h$" $ ($r3e $4ount of "e1t@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut it, not unuu$( for "octor to h$&e "e1t# i it8
A. -e((# I thin2 the $4ount of "e1t &$rie coni"er$1('.
/. Aut 4ot h$&e "e1t8
A. +ro1$1('# "epen"in3 on their $3e $n" f$4i(' t$tu.
/. 7ou,re $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t the $&er$3e 4e"ic$( choo( 3r$"u$te# =ut on 3r$"u$tion# h$ ne$r('
H200#000 in "e1t8
A. C$n$"$ i 4uch (e e)peni&e.
/. ;h$t# I 1e(ie&e# ir. Aut in the %nite" St$te# 4e"ic$( choo( i e)peni&e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e# it i.
/. An" =ut to 1eco4e $ "octor cot $n $0fu( (ot of 4one'@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" if the "octor, f$4i(' i not in"epen"ent(' 0e$(th'# it, co44on to p$' for 4e"ic$( choo( 0ith
"e1t $n" tu"ent (o$n@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.

/. An" then $fter 3r$"u$tion# $ "octor 4i3ht t$2e on 4ore "e1t throu3h $ 4ort3$3e# for int$nce8
A. 7e.
/. An" if 'ou 1u' $ houe in c$(iforni$# th$t 4ort3$3e i 3oin3 to 1e
A. +rett' ($r3e $4ount@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So 4$'1e H200#000 for the "e1t# $n" 4$'1e $nother 39 to HC00#000 for the 4ort3$3e. 7ou,re $(re$"'
o&er h$(f $ 4i((ion for the $&er$3e "octor@ ri3ht8
A. 7e# 'ou cou(" 1e.
/. Aut 0e $u4e th$t thoe "octor# "epite their i3nific$nt fin$nci$( 1ur"en# $re 3oin3 to $ct
ethic$((' in $ccor"$nce 0ith their profeion$( o$th@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" it, $ctu$((' in their (on39ter4 interet to "o o# ri3ht# 1ec$ue if the' &io($te their o$th# the'
cou(" (oe their (icene8
A. 7e.
/. An" then the' cou("n,t 4$2e $n' 4one' to p$' 1$c2 thoe "e1t8
A. 7e.
/. No0# 'ou re&ie0e" Detecti&e !$rtine>, teti4on'@ ri3ht8
A. 7e# I "i".
/. So 'ou 2no0 th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" $ (ot of thoe "e1t th$t he h$" for Euite $ (on3 ti4e 1efore 200D@
A. 7e.
/. An"# 'et# prior to 200D# he h$" no hitor' of 4e"ic$( 4$(pr$ctice8
A. 7e.
/. ;h$t, $ 5'e58
A. ;h$t, $ 5'e.5
/. An" he 0$ (icene" in four t$te to pr$ctice 4e"icine8

A. 7e.
/. An" thoe (icene h$" ne&er 1een upen"e" in $n' of thoe four t$te@ ri3ht8
A. Not to 4' 2no0(e"3e.
/. An" to 'our 2no0(e"3e# Dr. !urr$' h$" ne&er 1een ue" for 4$(pr$ctice# either8
A. Correct.
/. No0# 0e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it e$r(ier $1out 'our 3ener$( e)perience 0ith the concert in"utr'# $n" it,
prett' 4uch >ip# ri3ht# other th$n eein3 $ concert fro4 ti4e to ti4e8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou h$&e no i"e$ ho0 4uch "octor 0ho tour 0ith $rtit $re cuto4$ri(' p$i"@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. An" 0ou(" it ch$n3e 'our opinion $t $(( in thi c$e if H150#000 per 4onth 0$ $ t'pic$( fee for $
"octor 3oin3 on tour 0ith $n $rtit8
A. No# it 0ou("n,t ch$n3e 4' opinion.
/. Jut "oen,t 4$tter one 0$' or $nother8
A. Not in thi c$e.
/. An" 0ou(" it ch$n3e 'our opinion $t $(( in thi c$e if it 0$ cuto4$r' for concert &enue to h$&e
on9c$(( ph'ici$n to pro&i"e er&ice for $rtit if there 0$ $ 4e"ic$( e4er3enc'8
A. No# it 0ou("n,t ch$n3e 4' opinion.
/. Let, 3et into o4e of the pecific of the port in"utr' no0.
A. O2$'.
/. An" 0e,&e $(re$"' t$(2e" $1out the i"e$ th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e the t0o in"utrie# the concert in"utr' $n"
port in"utr'# $re $n$(o3ou@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut fro4 $ 4e"ic$( t$n"point# o4e of the ri2 $re $ (itt(e 1it "ifferent@ ri3ht8
A. <i2 to he$(th8
/. 7e.
A. 7e.

/. I 4e$n# (et, t$2e 1$e1$((# for e)$4p(e. No one i 3oin3 to thro0 $ f$t1$(( $t !r. J$c2on, f$ce@
A. ;h$t, correct.
/. An" no1o"', 3oin3 to (i"e t$c2(e hi48
A. Correct.
/. No one, 3oin3 to punch hi4 in the f$ce# (i2e in 1o)in38
A. <i3ht.
/. So un(i2e in port# in "$nce $n" in perfor4in3 $rt# o4eone i not t$2in3 $n $ction "e(i1er$te('
th$t 4i3ht eriou(' in=ure the peron@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. ;he' cou(" h$&e tre9re($te" or t$4in$ iue8
A. 7e.
/. Aut not 3ener$((' in=urie fro4 "irect tr$u4$ in the 0$' th$t 0ou(" h$ppen on the 1$(( fie("8
A. Correct. I 3ue the' "o occur# the' h$&e occurre"# 1ut the',re not re3u($r or inten"e".
/. ;he',re not e)pecte" 99
A. Correct.
/. 99 the 0$' th$t the' $re in 0h$t I 0ou(" c$(( the t'pic$( te$4 port8
A. 7e.
/. An" the concern of $ ph'ici$n tre$tin3 o4eone 0ho in3 $n" "$nce $ren,t 3oin3 to 1e
nece$ri(' the $4e $ the concern of $ ph'ici$n tre$tin3 $ foot1$(( p($'er8
A. Correct.
/. Or $ 1$e1$(( p($'er8
A. 7e.
/. No0# Dr. !$theon# in,t it true th$t the $re$ of port 4e"icine i o4e0h$t uniEue $4on3t
4e"ic$( fie("8
A. ;here $re 221 4e"ic$( u1peci$(tie in the %nite" St$te# o I "on,t thin2 it, 4ore uniEue th$n $n'

/. So 'ou "on,t 1e(ie&e th$t $n' of the ethic$( iue th$t co4e up in port 4e"icine $re uniEue8
A. 6ro4 $n ethic$( t$n"point# i it uniEue8
/. 7e.
A. 7e$h# the (iter$ture often $' it, not uniEue. ;he princip(e $re the $4e.
/. So it, 'our opinion th$t port 4e"icine i not ethic$((' uniEue8
A. I thin2 port 4e"icine "oe h$&e the iue in the three90$' re($tionhip in $ 4ore u1t$nti$( 0$'
th$n 4ot other peci$(tie. I thin2 the pr$ctice of 4e"icine# thou3h# i &er' i4i($r.
/. 7ou,re f$4i(i$r 0ith the intern$tion$( fe"er$tion of port 4e"icine8
A. 6.I.!.S.# 69I9!9S8 7e.
/. An" the' h$&e $ co"e of ethic# too@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" their co"e of ethic pecific$((' cite the "itinct ethic$( iue th$t co4e up in port 4e"icine@
A. 7e.
/. It pecific$((' $' th$t $ "ifferent re($tionhip e)it 1et0een port 4e"icine pr$ctitioner# their
e4p(o'er# offici$( port or3$ni>$tion# profeion$( co((e$3ue $n" the $th(ete8
A. 7e.
/. So $t (e$t $ccor"in3 to 6.I.!.S.# there i o4ethin3 uniEue $1out the ethic of port 4e"icine8
A. 7e.
/. An" I," (i2e to ho0 'ou e)hi1it 13#1DD.
Ms. %teins$ Pam0 can !ou 'ust put up the headline o+ this article,
/. Dr. !$theon# the $rtic(e I,&e =ut h$n"e" 'ou i one th$t 'ou pro"uce" $t 'our "epoition@ correct8
A. 7e.
/. An" re(ie" on for 'our opinion in thi c$e8
A. I 0ou("n,t $'# 5re(ie" on.5 I coni"ere" it.
/ it 0$ o4ethin3 th$t 'ou ou3ht out in $"&$nce of 'our "epoition 1ec$ue it 4i3ht h$&e

A. 7e.
/. An" 0h$t, the tit(e of thi $rtic(e8
A. 5%niEue ethic of port 4e"icine.5
/. An" if 0e turn to the 1otto4 of th$t firt p$r$3r$ph 99
A. 7e.
/. 99 c$n 'ou re$" the ne)t9to9($t entence there8
A. In the &er' firt p$r$3r$ph8
/. 7e.
A. 5;hi perpecti&e# then# u33et o4ethin3 "ifferent $n" e&en uniEue $1out the ethic of the port
4e"icine pr$ctitioner.5
/. So Dr. Johnon# 0ho 0rote thi $rtic(e# $t (e$t# thin2 th$t port 4e"icine i $ uniEue pr$ctice8
A. 7e.
/. An" thi $rtic(e $(o cite th$t there $re uniEue iue of infor4e" conent in port 4e"icine@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t co4e fro4 thin3 (i2e 1o)in3# 0here $n $th(ete i 3oin3 to 3o out $n" "e(i1er$te(' h$&e
o4eone punch hi4 $(( o&er hi 1o"'8
A. I thin2 the iue of infor4e" conent 99 Dr. Johnon i $ f$4i(' ph'ici$n in 4inneot$# $n" the iue
of infor4e" conent i re($te" to the f$ct th$t the $th(ete i not $1(e# $(0$'# to $ctu$((' 3i&e $ true $n"
un1i$e" infor4e" conent 1ec$ue of other preure on the4.
/. Aut 0h$t Dr. Johnon $' here i th$t the $th(ete h$ the $utono4' to 4$2e "eciion re3$r"in3
4e"ic$( tre$t4ent# pro&i"in3 the ph'ici$n h$ 3i&en the $th(ete $(( the re(e&$nt infor4$tion@ ri3ht8
A. In theor'# h$ the $utono4'# 1ut $(o h$ preure.
/. An" infor4e"9conent iue $re of $ 3re$ter iue in port 4e"icine th$n in other $re$# 1ec$ue
the $th(ete i en3$3in3 in o4ethin3 th$t cou(" re$((' 1e h$r4fu( to hi48
A. Correct.
/. An" there $re $(o uniEue iue re($tin3 to "ru3 ue in port 4e"icine@ ri3ht8
A. 7e$h. Dru3 ue not o 4uch in the ene of recre$tion$(# 1ut in perfor4$nce enh$nce4ent# 'e.

/. +uttin3 e)tr$ re" 1(oo" ce(( in 99
A. <i3ht.
/. 99 or hu4$n hor4one. ;h$t t'pe of thin38
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, o4ethin3 prett' uniEue to port 4e"icine@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, $nother ethic$( iue th$t co4e up in port 4e"icine $n" not in other conte)t8
A. Not other 4e"ic$( peci$(tie# 'ou 4e$n8
/. 7e.
A. 7e.
Ms. %teins$ 5ou can ta.e that do8n no8.
/. No0# 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t 'ou,re Eu$(ifie" to 3i&e $n opinion in thi c$e on the conf(ict9of9interet
itu$tion# $ 'ou c$(( it@ correct8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou 1e(ie&e 'ou,re Eu$(ifie" to "o th$t# re3$r"(e of the f$ct th$t 'ou "on,t un"ert$n" the ro(e
of $ pro4oter# pro"ucer# $rtit# tour 4$n$3er# tour "irector# $n" ho0 thoe ro(e re($te to one $nother8
A. It, true. I "on,t un"ert$n" $(( the "et$i(# correct.
/. Aut 'ou "on,t thin2 th$t 4$tter8
A. No. Not in thi c$e.
/. Aut $ren,t the ro(e $n" reponi1i(itie of the &$riou p($'er prett' i4port$nt in "eter4inin3 ho0
4uch preure i 1ein3 p($ce"# $n" 0h$t the conf(ict of interet $re8 A I thin2 the ro(e $re (e
i4port$nt th$n 0h$t i $i" $n" 0h$t i "one.
/. Aut ho0 c$n 'ou un"ert$n" the effect of 0h$t i $i" $n" 0h$t i "one if 'ou "on,t un"ert$n" the
ro(e of the pe$2er8
A. I thin2 'ou c$n =u"3e 1' the $ction $n" the co44unic$tion th$t t$2e p($ce.
/. Let, t$(2 $1out th$t $ (itt(e 1it. 7eter"$' 'ou co4p$re" !ich$e( J$c2on $n" AEG Li&e,
re($tionhip to the St$nfor" foot1$(( te$4@ ri3ht8

A. Di" I8
/. I thin2 'ou "i".
A. O2$'.
/. I thin2 'ou $i" th$t !ich$e( J$c2on 0$ $n$(o3ou to $ p($'er# $n" AEG Li&e 0$ $n$(o3ou to
the te$4# $n" Dr. !urr$' 0$ $n$(o3ou to the te$4 ph'ici$n. Correct 4e if I,4 0ron3.
A. ;h$t, fine.
/. -ou(" !r. J$c2on 1e $n$(o3ou to $(( of the St$nfor" foot1$(( te$4 for =ut the Eu$rter1$c28
A. +ro1$1(' =ut the 1et p($'er on the te$4.
/. Let, $u4e Eu$rter1$c2. Cou(" 1e o4e1o"' e(e# 1ut for 4' $n$(o3'# it i i4p(er.
A. O2$'.
/. A the te$4 "octor# 'ou 0ou(" 1e reponi1(e for tre$tin3 the entire te$4# not =ut the Eu$rter1$c2@
A. Not $(( $t once. -hen 'ou tre$t o4eone# it, one peron $t $ ti4e.
/. -e((# of coure it, one peron $t $ ti4e. Aut 'our o1(i3$tion $
A. ;e$4 ph'ici$n $re for $(( the p($'er@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. E&en the econ" $n" thir" trin38
A. 7e.
/. E&en peop(e 0ho pr$' for four 'e$r th$t the',re 3oin3 to 3et on the fie(" o4e "$'8
A. 7e.
/. Aut Dr. !urr$'# he 0$ on(' reponi1(e for tre$tin3 !ich$e( J$c2on@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. Fe "i"n,t h$&e o1(i3$tion to the other 4e41er of the tour8
A. 7e.
/. An" the te$4 "octor# $ "octor (i2e 'ou# i choen 1' $ uni&erit'@ ri3ht8 I thin2 'ou $i" th$t
A. 7e.

/. A Eu$rter1$c2 "oen,t 3et to chooe the St$nfor" %ni&erit' foot1$(( te$4, "octor8
A. ;h$t, correct.
/. Aut Dr. !urr$' 0$ choen 1' !ich$e( J$c2on@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" the te$4 "octor# the "octor 'ou,re t$(2in3 $1out# co4e into the p($'er, (i&e 0hen the' =oin the
te$4@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. It, not $ (on3t$n"in3 re($tionhip# (i2e !r. J$c2on h$" 0ith Dr. !urr$'8
A. ;'pic$((' not.
/. So# for int$nce# the "octor th$t tre$te" the Eu$rter1$c2 0ho 0$ $ hi3h choo( p($'er in,t 3oin3 to
fo((o0 hi4 $t St$nfor" $n" tre$t hi4 there8
A. Correct. -e h$&e i) "octor 0ith one te$4# it, not =ut one "octor. So there $re choice th$t the
$th(ete h$ th$t the' 0$nt to ee.
/. So it, (i2e $n h.!.O.8
A. A port h.!.O.# 'e.
/. 7ou c$n ee one of thoe i) "octor# hope 'ou (i2e the48
A. -e((# the' h$&e "ifferent $re$ of e)pertie.
/. Got 'ou. Jut for i4p(icit' of 4' $n$(o3'# c$n 0e tic2 0ith one "octor8 !$'1e it, $ &er' 4$((
A. 7e.
/. An" then 0e h$&e AEG Li&e. An" in the $th(etic conte)t# 'ou $i" th$t AEG Li&e 0ou(" 1e
$n$(o3ou to the te$4@ i th$t ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut $ Eu$rter1$c2 "oen,t "o $ contr$ct 0ith the te$4 to $((o0 hi4 to p($' foot1$(( to 1e $ p($tfor4
for hi4 to p($' foot1$((@ ri3ht8
A. I,4 not ure I un"ert$n" th$t.
/. I 0$nt 'ou to $u4e for $ 4o4ent th$t !r. J$c2on ou3ht out AEG Li&e $ $ concert pro"uction
co4p$n' $n" $i"# 5I 0$nt to hire 'ou to put to3ether 4' tour# $n" I 0i(( p$' 'ou $ percent$3e of the

profit# o 0e,(( "o $ "e$( th$t 0$'.5 th$t "oen,t h$ppen 0ith $ co((e3e foot1$(( p($'er@ ri3ht8 Fe "oen,t
co4e to St$nfor" $n" $'# 5I 0$nt to hire St$nfor" to 1e 4' p($tfor4 to p($' foot1$(( to the 0or("58
A. I thin2 the' "o chooe# $n" the' "o 3et p$i" in the ene th$t the' recei&e $ cho($rhip.
/. Aut the',re not 99 the uni&erit' recruit the4# the' "on,t recruit the uni&erit'@ ri3ht8
A. I 0ou(" $' it, 4utu$(.
/. So 'ou thin2 the re($tionhip i e)$ct(' the $4e 1et0een the re($tionhip of $n $"u(t 0ho p$' for $
co4p$n' to pro"uce $ tour for hi48
A. No# it, (i3ht(' "ifferent. Aut I "o thin2 th$t the $th(ete 0$nt or ee2 out th$t p$rticu($r te$4.
/. Aut the te$4 h$ to $3ree to put hi4 in the 3$4e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. It, the te$4, choice# or the "octor, choice# the $th(ete p($' or not@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" it, not the c$e 0here 99 it, not the $4e $ the c$e of $n $rtit pro"ucin3 $ concert tour 0here
it, u(ti4$te(' the $rtit, "eciion 0hether or not to t$2e the t$3e@ ri3ht8
A. I,4 not ure 0h$t the contr$ct i. 7ou,re $'in3 the $rtit cou(" chooe not to t$2e the t$3e $fter
for4in3 $ contr$ct8
/. I,4 3oin3 to $2 'ou to $u4e th$t the contr$ct 1et0een AEG Li&e $n" !r. J$c2on 3$&e ri3ht $n"
o1(i3$tion to 1oth of the4.
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t if AEG Li&e c$nce(e" the contr$ct 0hi(e !r. J$c2on 0$ re$"'# 0i((in3 $n" $1(e to
perfor4 it $n" $i" th$t he 0$nte" to t$2e the t$3e# th$t AEG Li&e 0ou(" 1e in 1re$ch# 1ut th$t if !r.
J$c2on "i" not ho0 up on the "$' the concert 0ere uppoe" to t$rt# th$t he 0ou(" 1e in 1re$ch.
A. 7e.
/. ;h$t, not $ itu$tion th$t e)it 0ith foot1$(( p($'er# i it8
A. ;h$t either one# either i"e# the te$4 or the $th(ete# cou(" 1re$ch8
/. No. ;h$t if the $th(ete 99 if 99 (et 4e tr' to 4$2e it i4p(er. If St$nfor" %ni&erit', foot1$(( co$ch
"eci"e not to put $ p($'er in the 3$4e 99
A. 7e.
/. 99 th$t $th(ete c$n,t ue St$nfor" for 1re$ch of contr$ct@ ri3ht8

A. Correct.
/. ;he co$ch h$ "icretion o&er 0ho to put in the 3$4e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut I 0$nt 'ou to $u4e th$t if AEG Li&e 1re$che" it contr$ct to !r. J$c2on $n" to(" hi4 he
c$n,t t$2e the t$3e# it 0ou(" 1e in 1re$ch of contr$ct. So th$t 0ou(" 1e the "ifference# if th$t, true@
A. ;he te$4 h$ 100 choice to put on the fie("# not one.
/. So the te$4 h$ choice $ to 0hether to put $ p($'er in the 3$4e or not8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, $ctu$((' $n i4port$nt p$rt of 'our return9to9p($' $n$('i# i the i"e$ th$t# 'ou 2no0# the
te$4 i 3oin3 to 1e "eci"in3 0hether or not the p($'er p($'8
A. 6ro4 $ ph'ic$(92i((9perfor4$nce t$n"point# not fro4 $ 4e"ic$(9in=ur' t$n"point# 'e.
/. Aut there, ti(( 4u(tip(e "eciion94$2er in the te$4 conte)t8
A. 7ou 4e$n o0ner# $"4initr$tor# co$che8 ;here, "ifferent ($'er# 'e.
/. An" 0ou(" 'ou $3ree th$t, $t (e$t $ (itt(e 1it "ifferent th$n $ 509'e$r9o(" 4$n hirin3 $ pro"uction
co4p$n' to pro"uce $ tour for hi48
A. 7e.
/. -e t$(2e" e$r(ier $1out conf(ict of interet# $n" the f$ct th$t the',re o4e0h$t ine&it$1(e in the
4e"ic$( fie("@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. E&en thou3h 0e 0ou(" r$ther the' "i"n,t e)it# the' unfortun$te(' "o8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t "octor re$((' h$&e to "e$( 0ith the4 on $ "$'9to9"$' 1$i $n" thin2 $1out the4 $n" 4$2e
ure the',re not $ffectin3 their =u"34ent8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou h$&e to "o th$t in 'our (ine of 0or28
A. 7e.

/. An" it, 'our opinion th$t conf(ict of interet hou(" 1e 4iti3$te"# to the e)tent poi1(e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aec$ue the' c$n,t re$((' 1e $&oi"e" $(to3ether8
A. Correct.
/. An" the pri4$r' 0$' of 4iti3$tin3 conf(ict i throu3h "ic(oure@ ri3ht8
A. Dic(oure i the firt tep.
/. E&er'one $'# 5here $re 4' interet#5 $n" then 0e t$(2 $1out 0hether it, $ pro1(e4 or not8
A. 7e.
/. In thi c$e# thou3h# e&er'one 2ne0 0h$t the itu$tion 0$@ ri3ht8
A. 5in thi c$e#5 1ein38
/. !r. J$c2on, re($tionhip 0ith AEG Li&e.
A. E&er'one 2ne0 0h$t th$t itu$tion 0$8
/. Let 4e put it "ifferent('. ;hi in,t $ c$e 0here AEG Li&e h$ $ ecret re($tionhip 0ith Dr. !urr$'
th$t !r. J$c2on "oen,t 2no0 $1out@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. In f$ct# the on(' re$on AEG Li&e e&er po2e to Dr. !urr$' 0$ 1ec$ue !r. J$c2on c$4e to the4
$n" $i"# 5I 0$nt 'ou to "o $ "e$( 0ith 4' "octor (i2e 'ou,re "oin3 $ "e$( 0ith e&er'1o"' e(e on thi
A. I 1e(ie&e o# 'e.
/. So !r. J$c2on# $t (e$t# 0$ $0$re of the f$ct th$t he 0$ in&o(&in3 AEG Li&e in o4e t$n3enti$(
0$'# $t the &er' 4ini4u4# in the re($tionhip 1et0een hi4 $n" hi "octor8
A. 7e.
/. An" he pecific$((' $2e" th$t AEG Li&e $"&$nce 4one' to hi "octor $t $ fee of H150#000 $ 4onth8
A. 7e.
/. An" Dr. !urr$' 2ne0 th$t 0$ the itu$tion@ ri3ht8
A. ;h$t !r. J$c2on 0$nte" hi4 in&o(&e"# 'ou 4e$n8

/. 7e.
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ u(ti4$te(' 3oin3 to 1e reponi1(e for p$'in3 hi4# 1ut AEG Li&e 0$
3oin3 to $"&$nce the fee8
A. I,4 not ure 0h$t 99 0hether Dr. !urr$' 2ne0 0here the fun" 0ere co4in3 fro4. Aut# 'e# th$t
cou(" 1e correct.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t, not the c$e8
A. No.
/. I it 'our poition# then# th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ not $1(e to conent to $ re($tionhip 0here AEG Li&e
0ou(" 1e p$'in3 hi "octor8
A. No.
/. So he 0$ $1(e to conent to th$t re($tionhip8
A. 7e.
/. An" in f$ct# the Dr$ft $3ree4ent 0ith Dr. !urr$' e)pre(' reEuire" !r. J$c2on, conent to th$t
re($tionhip@ ri3ht8
A. 7e. I 1e(ie&e# thou3h# th$t it 0$ unuu$( in th$t there 0$ $ i3n$ture (ine th$t re$((' put hi4 $ $
p$rticip$nt# not $ $ pri4$r' peron in th$t re($tionhip.
/. <i3ht. ;he $3ree4ent reEuire" hi $ppro&$(@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. It t$te" th$t he h$" 99 the 1(oc2 he 0$ uppoe" to i3n t$te" th$t he h$" reEuete" Dr. !urr$' $t
hi o0n e)pene to pro&i"e 4e"ic$( c$re on the tour@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" the $3ree4ent pro&i"e" th$t if th$t i3n$ture 1(oc2 0$n,t i3ne"# if !r. J$c2on "i"n,t pro&i"e
hi conent# then AEG Li&e $n" Dr. !urr$'# the' 0ou("n,t h$&e $n' re($tionhip $t $((@ correct8
A. +reu4$1('# 'e.
/. An" 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ c$p$1(e of conentin3 to th$t 2in" of re($tionhip8
A. 7e.
/. No0 99 1ut 'ou,&e $(o tetifie" th$t 'ou "on,t 1e(ie&e there, $n' 0$' th$t $ in3(e "octor 1eh$&in3
ethic$((' cou(" e&er h$&e 3one on tour 0ith !r. J$c2on@ i th$t ri3ht8

A. Not un"er thoe ter4 $n" con"ition.
/. %n"er $n' ter4 $n" con"ition8
A. ;here cou(" 1e ter4 $n" con"ition th$t 0ou(" re"uce the ri2 of conf(ict.
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e it, poi1(e for $ in3(e "octor to h$&e 3one on tour 0ith !r. J$c2on8
A. Depen"in3 on the con"ition.
/. -h$t con"ition 0ou(" 4$2e it o2$'8
A. -e((# for e)$4p(e# $ (u4p u4 p$'4ent th$t 0$n,t tie" to the in"epen"ence of 4e"ic$( "eciion9
4$2in3. ;h$t 0ou(" h$&e 4$"e $ "ifference.
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t, poi1(e8
A. ;h$t, poi1(e.
/. I th$t $ ch$n3e in 'our opinion fro4 'our "epoition8
A. Fopefu((' not.
/. A(( ri3ht. Let, 3o $he$" $n" p($' 'our "epoition. I,4 not ure if I h$&e thi c(ip in here or not. -e
4$' p($' it $fter the 1re$2 thi 4ornin3.
Ms. %teins$ Pa)e 21/0 line /0 throu)h 2180 line 3.
/. I,(( h$&e it re$"' $fter the 1re$2.
A. O2$'.
/. Let, 3o on for no0. So 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t $ (u4p u4 p$'4ent in $"&$nce 0ou(" h$&e 1een o2$'8
A. -e((# th$t, one f$ctor th$t 0ou(" i4pro&e the ri2 of conf(ict# 'e.
/. So (et, t$2e th$t itu$tion. It, !$' 200D or# (et, $'# June 200D. !ich$e( J$c2on co4e to AEG
Li&e $n" $'# 5I 0$nt 'ou to p$' to 1rin3 4' "octor on tour 0ith 4e. An" inte$" of $ 4onth('
$3ree4ent $n" $ contr$ct# I 0$nt 'ou to =ut 3i&e hi4 H1.5 4i((ion upfront.5 th$t 0ou(" 1e o2$'8
A. -h$t $re the con"ition for recei&in3 th$t 1.58
/. No con"ition. Jut 3i&e the "octor 150#000 $ 4onth 99 3i&e the "octor H1.5 4i((ion# $n" he, 3oin3
to =oin the tour.
A. -e((# if there, no con"ition for i44e"i$te ter4in$tion# $n" there, no con"ition th$t tie the 0or2 he
"oe to AEG# it, (e (i2e(' th$t he 0ou(" fee( contro((e".

/. So it, 'our poition th$t the on(' 0$' to $&oi" contro( i to p$' hi4 for the entire tour upfront# $n"
e&en if the tour ne&er h$ppen# he 3et to 2eep $(( the 4one'8
A. -e((# I 0ou("n,t nece$ri(' tructure it e)$ct(' (i2e th$t# 1ut th$t, ri3ht. ;o re4o&e o4e of the
ter4 $n" con"ition th$t in&o(&e i44e"i$te ter4in$tion $n" reportin3 to AEG -ou(" re"uce the
conf(ict# 'e.
/. Let, $' th$t th$t, $ "eciion th$t "oen,t fin$nci$((' 4$2e ene# to p$' o4eone for $ tour if the'
"on,t 2no0 ho0 (on3 the tour i 3oin3 to 1e. I it o2$' to p$' Dr. !urr$' H150#000 $ 4onth# $ (on3 $
there $re no con"ition $tt$che" to it# 1ut it 0ou(" 1e ter4in$te" if the tour 0ere ter4in$te"8
A. -e((# I,4 not ure 0h$t 2in" of ph'ici$n 0ou(" i3n up for th$t $n" (e$&e $ pr$ctice to "o th$t. Aut
if the' "i"# it, 99 it "oe re"uce the ri2# 'e.
/. So th$t 0ou(" 1e 1etter8
A. ;h$t 0ou(" 1e 1etter.
/. -ou(" it 1e o2$'8
A. It 0ou("n,t 1e 100 percent 1etter# no.
/. So 'ou ti(( 1e(ie&e th$t th$t "octor 0ou(" 1e tr$&e(in3 un"er $ potenti$((' cruhin3 ethic$( conf(ict8
A. I,4 not ure if it, cruhin3# 1ut it 0ou(" re"uce the ri2 of i44e"i$te ter4in$tion# 0hich 0ou("
re"uce the fin$nci$( concern th$t 1ore on th$t conf(ict.
/. Aut it, 'our opinion# pe$2in3 3ener$(('# th$t it, re$((' ethic$((' ch$((en3in3 for $n' "octor to 3o on
$ tour 0ith $ 4uici$n@ correct8
A. 7e. Aec$ue the "octor i oper$tin3 in $ uniEue en&iron4ent# not in their t'pic$( 4e"ic$(
/. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 $ to ho0 often "octor tr$&e( 0ith tour@ ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. I it 'our opinion th$t e&er' "octor th$t tr$&e( 0ith $ tour i oper$tin3 un"er o4e 2in" of ethic$(
co4pro4ie poition8
A. ;h$t the itu$tion the',re in 0ou(" 4ore (i2e(' th$n not h$&e conf(ict in it# 'e.
/. So if $ perfor4in3 $rtit 0$nt to 1rin3 $ peron$( "octor on tour# in $n" of ite(f# th$t, $ pro1(e4 to
A. It cou(" 1e# 'e.
/. Aec$ue 'ou thin2 it, 1etter to hire $ hopit$(8

A. I thin2 it, 1etter to h$&e $n i4p$rti$( 3roup 4$2in3 thoe "eciion# 'e.
/. Aut it i# 3ener$(('# 'ou 0ou(" $(o $3ree# o4eone, choice to 1rin3 their o0n "octor# $n" 0hich
"octor the' 0$nt to ee@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So 'ou "on,t h$&e $ pro1(e4 0ith the i"e$ th$t $n $rtit 0$nt to 1rin3 hi o0n "octor on tour 99
A. No.
/. 99 in the $1tr$ct8
A. Correct.
/. 7ou =ut thin2 th$t th$t "octor i (i2e(' to 1e co4pro4ie" ethic$(('8
A. ;here, $ &er' hi3h (i2e(ihoo" of conf(ict# 'e# th$t nee" to 1e 4$n$3e".
/. I,4 =ut tr'in3 to fi3ure out 0h$t $ 3oo" ethic$( itu$tion 0ou(" 1e.
A. A 3oo" ethic$( itu$tion# for e)$4p(e# cou(" 1e to h$&e $ rot$tin3 3roup of peop(e th$t 3o o&er t0o
0ee2 $t $ ti4e# or three 0ee2 $t $ ti4e. -e,&e "one th$t in port.
Ms. %teins$ 1nd proal! time +or our rea.. *s that o.a!0 !our honor,
-ud)e$ 5es. &.a!. 15 minutes.
9-ur! exits:
-ud)e$ &.a!. %ee !ou in 15 minutes.
Mr. Putnam$ 2han. !ou0 !our honor.

!. Ste11in? Dr. !$theon# $t the 1re$2 "i" 'ou 3et $n opportunit' to t$(2 0ith p($intiff, coune(8
A. 7e.
/. Di" 'ou t$(2 $1out the c$e $t $((8
A. No.
/. Nothin38

A. No.
/. I 0$nt to $2 'ou for $ 4inute $1out o4ethin3 'ou =ut $i" =ut 1efore the 1re$2. An" 'ou $i"#
Euote# 5I,4 not ure 0hether Dr. !urr$' 2ne0 0here the fun" 0ere co4in3 fro45@ ri3ht8 I th$t ri3ht8
A. I 1e(ie&e he thou3ht the' 0ere co4in3 fro4 AEG ;h$t, 0h$t the contr$ct 0$ $1out.
/. So if Dr. !urr$' "i"n,t 2no0 the fun" 0ere co4in3 fro4 AEG Li&e in the firt int$nce# he cou("n,t
h$&e fe(t preure fro4 AEG Li&e@ ri3ht8
A. I thin2 the contr$ct in"ic$te th$t, 0here the fun" 0ere co4in3 fro4.
/. O2$'. So 'ou 0$nt to t$2e 1$c2 the i"e$ 'ou,re not ure if Dr. !urr$' 0$ $0$re 0here the fun"
0ere co4in3 fro48
A. -h$t i 4e$nt i# e&entu$((' he 0$ not ure 0here there 0$ p$'1$c2# 1ut initi$((' he 2ne0 it 0$
co4in3 fro4 AEG
/. -e((# he $(o 2ne0 th$t the Dr$ft contr$ct th$t he i3ne" $i" the en3$3e4ent 0$ to 1e $t !ich$e(
J$c2on, e)pene@ ri3ht8
A. I 1e(ie&e 99
/. It $i" th$t in e&er' in3(e Dr$ft8
A. I 1e(ie&e o.
/. No0# 'ou tetifie" e$r(ier th$t 'ou,re not f$4i(i$r 0ith ho0 $ tourin3 in"utr' i tructure" 3ener$(('.
An" I,(( repreent to 'ou there, 1een o4e teti4on' in thi c$e $1out other tour "octor th$t 3o on
tour 0ith ph'ici$n 99 or th$t 3o on tour 0ith 4uici$n# e)cue 4e. An" I 0$nt to $2# "o 'ou h$&e
$n' i"e$ 0ho p$' ce(ine "ion, "octor 0hen he 3oe on tour8
A. No# I "on,t.
/. 7ou h$&e $n' i"e$ ho0 th$t contr$ct i tructure"8
A. No.
/. Fo0 $1out 1(in2 1B2, "octor8
A. No.
/. <o((in3 Stone, "octor8
A. No.
/. 7ou h$&e no un"ert$n"in3 0h$toe&er on ho0 tour "octor $re cuto4$ri(' 1rou3ht on $ tour $n"

p$i"@ ri3ht8
A. No. I,&e he$r" $nec"ot$( torie# 1ut I "on,t h$&e $ 3ener$( un"ert$n"in3.
/. -e((# in thi c$e# 'ou "on,t h$&e $ pecific un"ert$n"in3 of the ro(e of &$riou fo(2@ ri3ht8
A. Of the &$riou 0hich8 I,4 orr'.
/. V$riou peronne( in&o(&e" in the tour.
A. I h$&e =ut $ 3ener$( un"ert$n"in3 of the reponi1i(itie.
/. An" 'ou "o un"ert$n"# 3ener$(('# th$t the 0$' the tour 0$ 3oin3 to 0or2 0$ th$t $(( the cot of
the tour 0ere 3oin3 to 1e $"&$nce" $n" then recoupe"8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t $(o th$t $ nu41er of peron$( e)pene 0ere 3oin3 to 1e $"&$nce"8 6or int$nce# the cot
of !r. J$c2on, ho4e rent$(# $n" the $($rie of hi houeho(" t$ff in Lon"on8
A. 7e.
/. So 'ou un"ertoo" th$t prett' 4uch e&er'thin3 re($tin3 to the tour 0$ 3oin3 to 1e $"&$nce" 1'
AEG Li&e# either $ $ pro"uction $"&$nce or $n $rtit $"&$nce# $n" then rep$i" 1' !r. J$c2on@ ri3ht8
A. 5Ether $ pro"uction $"&$nce#5 "i" 'ou $'8
/. Or $n $rtit $"&$nce.
A. -h$t, the "ifference 1et0een thoe t0o8
/. ;he $rtit $"&$nce $re 99 h$&e $ (i3ht(' "ifferent p$'1$c2 tructure# "epen"in3 on 99 the pro"uction
99 one i ue" to c$(cu($te the pro"ucer fee# $n" one i not ue" to c$(cu($te the pro"ucer fee.
A. O2$'. An" the Euetion i# "o I h$&e $n un"ert$n"in3 th$t thoe 0ere 3oin3 to 1e rei41ure"8
/. <i3ht.
A. 7e.
/. ;h$t e&er'thin3 0$ 3oin3 to 1e 1orro0e"# eenti$(('# $n" p$i" 1$c28
A. I =ut un"ertoo" th$t the re&enue 0ou(" co&er the e)pene $n" p$' the $ppropri$te peop(e#
$ccor"in3 to the contr$ct. I 0$n,t ure e)$ct(' ho0 th$t 0$ 3oin3 to 1e c$(cu($te" or "i&i"e".
/. An" "i" 'ou h$&e $n un"ert$n"in3 th$t if the tour 0ere c$nce(e"# !r. J$c2on 0ou(" h$&e to p$' $((
th$t 1$c28
A. I 1e(ie&e he "i".

/. So eenti$(('# it, 2in" of (i2e t$2in3 out $ 4ort3$3e to p$' for $ concert tour8
A. I 3ue th$t, $ 0$' of (oo2in3 $t it# 'e.
/. An" if !ich$e( J$c2on h$" in f$ct t$2en out $ 4ort3$3e to p$' for
A. Concert tour 99 (et, preten" 0e,re in $ 0or(" 0here Ne&er($n" i not 4ort3$3e"# $n" he $'#
5<$ther th$n AEG Li&e $"&$nce the 4one'# I,4 3oin3 to 4ort3$3e ne&er($n" $n" ue th$t to p$' for the
tour.5 0ou(" the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' h$&e $n' o1(i3$tion to p$' !r. J$c2on, ph'ici$n8
A. Depen" 0hether the' tructure" it or the repreent$tion re($te" to the 4ort3$3e.
/. So 'our opinion i th$t the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' 4i3ht h$&e h$" o1(i3$tion in chooin3 the
A. Depen"in3 on ho0 it 0$ tructure"# 'e.
/. Let, $u4e it 0$ tructure" 0here !r. J$c2on choe Dr. !urr$'# $ he "i" in thi c$e# 1ut th$t
there 0$ $ pro"uction co4p$n'# $ there 0$ in thi c$e# $n" the pro"uction co4p$n' 0ou(" $ctu$(('
en3$3e the ph'ici$n. -ou(" the co4p$n' then h$&e o1(i3$tion8
A. ;he co4p$n' (en"in3 the 4ort3$3e8
/. 7e.
A. Not if there 0ere not ter4 $n" con"ition th$t p($ce" retriction on the (en"in3 of th$t 4one'.
/. No0# 'ou t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it 1efore the 1re$2 th$t re$((' the on(' 0$' 'ou 0ou(" 1e co4fort$1(e
ethic$((' 0ith $ "octor 3oin3 on tour 0$ if AEG Li&e entere" $n $3ree4ent to en3$3e $ te$4 of
"octor@ ri3ht8
A. ;h$t, not the on(' 0$'# 1ut th$t 0ou(" 1e one 0$' to "o it# 'e.
/. -h$t other 0$'8
A. 7ou cou(" fin" $ cre"i1(e 4e"ic$( f$ci(it' $n" 3roup of pro&i"er $t the ite the tour 0$ t$2in3
/. So# for int$nce# 'ou cou(" fin" $ hopit$( in Lon"on# $n" $ffi(i$te" 0ith th$t hopit$(# h$&e th$t
hopit$( en" "octor to tre$t !r. J$c2on8
A. ;h$t, poi1(e. -e "o th$t in port. -e 3o $he$" of the te$4 in europe $n" fin" 4e"ic$( pro&i"er
$n" $ net0or2 of referr$( e)pert.
/. -h$t e(e8
A. 7ou,re $2in3 4e 0h$t cou(" h$&e 1een "one th$t I 0ou(" 99 or 0h$t 0ou(" I "o if I 0$ ettin3 up
the tour in europe8

/. If 'ou 0ere ettin3 up the tour in europe# 0h$t 4e"ic$( $rr$n3e4ent 0ou(" 'ou 1e co4fort$1(e
0ith !r. J$c2on to 1e ethic$( $rr$n3e4ent8
A. ;he firt thin3 i I 0ou(" "o $ co4preheni&e $e4ent of hi he$(th# $(( or3$n 'te4# t$tu# hi
nutrition# ph'ic$( c$p$cit'. An" ue th$t $ $ 0$' of cre$tin3 $n' ch$n3e to hi 4e"ic$( pro3r$4 or
tre$t4ent th$t, reEuire".
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e the on(' 0$' $ concert pro"uction co4p$n' c$n t$2e $n $rtit, "octor on tour i if
the concert pro"uction co4p$n' "oe $ co4preheni&e 4e"ic$( $e4ent of the $rtit8
A. ;h$t, not the on(' 0$'# 1ut th$t, pro1$1(' in prett' 4uch e&er' other in"utr'# fro4 po(ice to
$th(etic to the $uto4oti&e in"utr'.
/. It, 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t in the $uto4oti&e in"utr'# 1efore en"in3 o4eone on $ 1uine trip#
the $uto4oti&e co4p$n' "oe $ 4e"ic$( $e4ent8
A. Aefore the e4p(o'ee i hire"# the' h$&e $ co4preheni&e $e4ent# 'e.
/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ 3oin3 to 1e $n e4p(o'ee of AEG Li&e8
A. No# 1ut he 0$ 3oin3 to en3$3e in thoe 2in" of $cti&itie th$t reEuire hi4 to 0or2 ph'ic$(('.
/. <i3ht.
A. ;h$t, one thin3 i 0ou(" "o# 'e.
/. O2$'. So in 'our &ie0 of the 0or("# in or"er for !ich$e( J$c2on to 1rin3 $n' ph'ici$n or e&en to
hire $ te$4 of "octor in Lon"on# AEG Li&e h$ to un"ert$2e $ ph'ic$( e)$4 of hi48
A. 7ou,re $2in3 4e 0h$t !ich$e( J$c2on thin2 of th$t# or 0h$t AEG thin2 of th$t8
/. I,4 $2in3 'ou if th$t, 'our un"ert$n"in3 if th$t, the on(' 0$' 0e c$n "o thi ethic$(('8
A. Ethic$(('# 'ou 0ou(" 0$nt to "o $ co4prehen
i&e e&$(u$tion of the peron un"er3oin3 the perfor4$nce# the ph'ic$( $cti&it'. ;h$t, the i"e$(# 'e.
/. Aut it 0ou(" 1e the ph'ici$n th$t "oe the co4preheni&e $n$('i# not the pro"uction co4p$n'@
A. ;h$t $ctu$((' perfor4 it8 It 0ou(" pro1$1(' 1e 4ore th$n hi ph'ici$n. It 0ou(" inc(u"e $ ph'ic$(
ther$pit# $ nutritionit# $ 3roup of peop(e. Aut th$t 0ou(" 1e co44on pr$ctice.
/. Aut not in the concert in"utr'# 1ec$ue 'ou "on,t 2no0 $n'thin3 of the concert in"utr'@ correct8
A. Correct.
/. -h$t e(e8
A. ;hen# I thin2# 4ot oper$tion (i2e thi reEuire $ te$4 of peop(e. Occ$ion$(('# 'ou c$n fin"

o4eone 0ho i o 3oo" or o e)perience" in $(( $re$# the' c$n "o it 1' the4e(&e. Aut 4ot often
'ou nee" $ te$4 1ec$ue there $re &$riou $pect. 7ou h$&e 4ucu(o2e(et$( he$(th in"utrie#
ph'ic$( he$(th# perfor4$nce c$p$cit'# there, nutrition# reh$1i(it$tion# p'cho(o3ic$( 0e((91ein3. ;hoe
$re $(( f$ctor th$t 3o into ph'ic$( c$p$1i(itie.
/. So for one pop $rtit to 3o on tour# he nee" $ te$4 of ph'ici$n to tr$&e( 0ith hi48
A. No. ;h$t, the $e4ent I,4 pe$2in3 of.
/. Oh.
A. ;h$t 0ou(" t$2e p($ce $t the 1e3innin3 to out(ine $n' iue th$t nee" to 1e "e$(t 0ith.
/. An" then 0h$t8
A. ;hen once thoe $re 2no0n# 'ou "e$( 0ith thoe. An" then the ne)t i 99 0e,re 3oin3 on the tour
/. 7e.
A. So the ne)t thin3 I 0ou(" "o i 4$2e ure th$t 0e h$" hire" $ 3roup of peop(e th$t 0ou(" continue
0h$t 0$ i"entifie" in th$t prep$rticip$tion e&$(u$tion $n" pro&i"e th$t c$re $n" 1e $1(e to pro&i"e c$re
"urin3 the tour. It cou(" 1e tructure" in $ nu41er of 0$'. 7ou 99 if I 0ere AEG An" I "i"n,t h$&e th$t
in9houe 4e"ic$( e)pertie# I 0ou(" (oo2 for it o4e0here in thi $re$. An" perh$p $ re($tionhip
"e&e(op# $n" o4e of thoe peop(e continue co4in3 to europe# to en3($n"# or perh$p the' rot$te
throu3h. An" $(o "e&e(op $ cre"i1(e 3roup 0ithin Lon"on to pro&i"e or continue th$t 2in" of er&ice.
/. So 'ou "o thin2 th$t there nee" to 1e $ 3roup 0ith 0ho4 AEG Li&e $ffi(i$te for the purpoe of
tre$tin3 !r. J$c2on8
A. It, h$r" to i4$3ine it cou(" 1e on(' one peron# 'e.
/. No0# 'ou,re $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t !r. J$c2on "i" h$&e $ ph'ic$( "one in fe1ru$r' of 200D8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t th$t ph'ic$(# AEG Li&e 0$n,t 4$"e $0$re of the reu(t 1ut 0$ to(" he p$e" it8
A. 7e. Aut th$t ph'ic$( 0$ (i4ite". It, not the ph'ic$( I,4 t$(2in3 $1out.
/. <i3ht. Aut to 'our un"ert$n"in3# 0$ there $n' 0$' AEG Li&e cou(" h$&e 2no0n ho0 (i4ite" or
co4preheni&e th$t ph'ic$( 0$8
A. ;he' 2ne0 the "octor 0$ $n e$r# noe $n" thro$t peci$(it# o preu4$1(' th$t e)$4in$tion 0$
(i4ite" to th$t peci$(t'# th$t p$rt of the 1o"'.
/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t e$r# noe $n" thro$t peci$(it "on,t "o co4preheni&e 4e"ic$( e)$48

A. Not co44on('.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ 0hether the',re cuto4$ri(' ue" to con"uct e)$4in$tion of perfor4in3
$rtit on tour8
A. +reu4$1(' the' cou("# 1ec$ue the &oice i i4port$nt# $n" the &oc$( cor" $re i4port$nt. So
preu4$1(' th$t, $n i4port$nt co4ponent of $ co4preheni&e e&$(u$tion.
/. Aut 'our 1et9c$e cen$rio# the 0$' thi tour hou(" h$&e 1een tructure"# 0$ 99 $n" i =ut 0$nt to
4$2e ure I h$&e it correct('. !ich$e( J$c2on co4e to AEG Li&e $n" $'# 5-ith $(( the other
entour$3e I,4 1rin3in3 on 1o$r"# I 0$nt to 1rin3 4' (on39ti4e peron$( ph'ici$n 0ith 4e# $n" I 0$nt
to 1rin3 hi4 to Lon"on# $n" c$n 'ou $rr$n3e th$t5@ th$t AEG Li&e hou(" h$&e $i"# 5No# 0e c$n,t
$rr$n3e th$t. Inte$"# 0e h$&e to h$&e $ te$4 of "octor e&$(u$te 'our he$(th# $n" then contr$ct 0ith $
hopit$( either here or in Lon"on# $n" 1rin3 th$t te$4 of "octor 0ith u58
A. AEG Li&e hou(" h$&e $i"# 5-e,re not e)pert in 4e"ic$( c$re# o 0e,re 3oin3 to fin" out 0h$t the
1et 0$' to "o thi i#5 in the $4e 0$' the',re not e)pert in (i3htin3 or# perh$p# in choreo3r$ph' or
in p'rotechnic. ;he' contr$ct th$t out. ;he' hou(" h$&e "one th$t 0ith the 4e"ic$( c$re.
/. Doe AEG Li&e nee" to 1e $n e)pert for 4e"ic$( c$re for !ich$e( J$c2on to chooe hi o0n
A. If the',re 3oin3 to enter into $n $3ree4ent# 'e.
/. So 1' &irtue of $3reein3 to p$' the "octor $t !r. J$c2on, reEuet $n" on hi 1eh$(f# 'ou 1e(ie&e
AEG Li&e h$" $n o1(i3$tion to 1eco4e $n e)pert in 4e"ic$( c$re or hire $n e)pert in 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. ;he' $ccept reponi1i(it' for th$t# 'e.
/. 7ou thin2 =ut 1' &irtue of $3reein3 to p$'8
A. 7e.
/. E&en thou3h the',re p$'in3 for the 4$2eup $rtit8
A. ;he 4$2eup $rtit 0$n,t pro&i"in3 4e"ic$( c$re.
/. Chef8
A. S$4e.
/. So it, 'our opinion th$t $n'1o"' 0ho p$' in $n' 0$'# h$pe or for4 for $ perfor4er, 4e"ic$( c$re
h$ to 1e reponi1(e for th$t 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. 7e. ;h$t, the i"e$( 0$' to $&oi" conf(ict of interet. ;h$t, the i"e$( 0$' to pro&i"e 3oo" c$re.
/. An" 'ou thin2 th$t 0ou(" $&oi" conf(ict of interet8
A. C$n 'ou $2 th$t Euetion one 4ore ti4e8

/. Sure. 7ou thin2 th$t hirin3 $ te$4 of ph'ici$n 0ou(" pre&ent the conf(ict of interet8
A. It 0ou(" re"uce the conf(ict of interet# 'e.
/. Aec$ue $(( thoe te$4 of ph'ici$n 0ou(" ti(( h$&e their =o1 to co4e 1$c2 ho4e to8
A. ;he' 0ou(" pe$2 to e$ch other $1out pro1(e4@ the' 0ou(" h$re thoe pro1(e4# he(p e$ch other
o(&e the4@ there 0ou(" 1e openne $1out co44unic$tion# 'e.
/. ;here, no re$on th$t $ 509'e$r9o(" 4$n in 3oo" he$(th nee" $ te$4 of ph'ici$n to pro&i"e
4e"ic$( c$re in the e&ent of $ 4e"ic$( e4er3enc'# i there8
A. -h$t 2in" of e4er3enc'8
/. -e((# I 3ue 0h$t I,4 $'in3 i# (et, t$2e $n $&er$3e 509'e$r9o(" 4$n in 3oo" he$(th. Doe he nee"
$ te$4 of peci$(it urroun"in3 hi4 $t $(( ti4e8
A. Fe nee" o4eone 0ho i $1(e to $cce $n" ue thoe peci$(it# 1ec$ue the &$riet' of pro1(e4
th$t c$n "e&e(op $re not (i4ite" to one or3$n 'te4.
/. Aut $(( "octor c$n refer p$tient to peci$(it@ ri3ht8
A. If the' h$&e the 2no0(e"3e th$t 0h$t the',re "e$(in3 0ith i outi"e of their $re$ of e)pertie.
/. In f$ct# th$t, p$rt of the hippocr$tic o$th th$t 0e t$(2e" $1out e$r(ier# if it, outi"e the $re$ of their
e)pertie# the',(( refer o4eone to $ peci$(it@ ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. So there, no re$on Dr. !urr$' cou("n,t h$&e referre" !r. J$c2on to $ peci$(it# if nee"e"# if he
0$ $ctin3 ethic$((' $n" in $ccor"$nce 0ith hi profeion$( o1(i3$tion8
A. Fe cou(" h$&e "one th$t# 'e.
/. So I 3ue 0h$t I,4 $2in3 i# h'pothetic$((' pe$2in3# t$2in3 out the !ich$e( J$c2onIDr. !urr$'
conte)t# cou(" $n $rtit hire $ in3(e ph'ici$n to 3o on tour 0ith hi4 $n" re(' on th$t $rtit to re$ch out
to $ peci$(it# if nee"e"8
Mr. #loss$ * thin. there 8as a misstatement in the 4uestion. 6rel! on the artist.6
Ms. %teins$ *t;s a h!pothetical0 !our honor. * as.ed0 outside o+ this speci+ic case0 could an artist
theoreticall! rin) 77 hire a doctor to )o on tour 8ith him and rel! on that doctor;s pro+essional
oli)ations to 77
Mr. Panish$ %he said0 6artist.6
Ms. %teins$ Did * sa!0 6artist6, %o did * misspea.,

/. Su1titute 5"octor5 for 5$rtit.5 'ou un"ert$n" the Euetion8
A. Cou(" 'ou repe$t it8
/. Sure. F'pothetic$((' pe$2in3# cou(" $ 509'e$r9o(" $rtit chooe to 1rin3 $ pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n
on tour 0ith hi4# re('in3 on th$t pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n, o1(i3$tion 99 ethic$( o1(i3$tion $n" e)pertie
to re$ch out to peci$(it# if nee"e"8
A. 7e. Depen" on the tructure of the contr$ct.
/. S$' there, no contr$ct.
A. -e((# 'ou 0$nt 4e to pecu($te8
/. I 0$nt 'ou to pe$2 to the h'pothetic$(. In th$t h'pothetic$( itu$tion# $n $rtit 0$nt to 1rin3 $
"octor on tour# $ pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n. ;he "octor h$ the $1i(it' to cont$ct other ph'ici$n th$t 0e
t$(2e" $1out e$r(ier# the o1(i3$tion to "o o. C$n the $rtit# 0ithout $ contr$ct# 1rin3 the "octor on tour
to "o th$t8
A. An" there, no p$'4ent or other 1enefit8
/. -e((# the "octor i p$i" for hi ti4e $ the tour continue.
A. -e((# for e)$4p(e# i th$t p$'4ent p(it 1et0een the other conu(t$nt or i it $ 3(o1$( fee 0here
e&er'1o"' 3et p$i"# or i the "octor $1(e to 2eep it $(( if he "oen,t refer8 ;h$t 0ou(" not 1e $n i"e$(
/. In thi h'pothetic$( I 0ou(" e)pect the peci$(it 0ou(" 1e p$i" $ 0e((. In other 0or"# the pri4$r'
c$re ph'ici$n 0ou(" 1e p$i" $ $($r'# (i2e o4e pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n $re# $n" if there 0$ nee" for
$ peci$(it# the peci$(it 0ou(" 1e p$i" ep$r$te('.
A. If there 0$ no eroion of in"epen"ent 4e"ic$( =u"34ent in th$t# th$t 0ou(" (een the conf(ict# 'e.
/. I,4 $2in3 0hether there, $n eroion of ethic$( 4e"ic$( =u"34ent in th$t itu$tion.
A. A3$in# it re$((' "epen" on 0h$t the p$'4ent i (i2e# $n" if there, $n' tructure. It, h$r" to
concei&e of o4ethin3 (i2e th$t e)itin3 0ithout $ tructure.
/. Aec$ue in 'our 0or("# there, $(0$' $ tructure@ ri3ht8
A. ;here, $n un"ert$n"in3 of 0h$t the tructure i# 0ho 3et p$i" 0h$t# 'e.
/. ;here h$ to 1e tructure 0ith port te$4# ri3ht# 1ec$ue 'ou h$&e the $4e 2in" of itu$tion
co4in3 up o&er $n" o&er $3$in# $n" 'ou,re "e$(in3 0ith ($r3e 3roup of peop(e# $th(ete# th$t nee"
tre$t4ent 'e$r in $n" 'e$r out@ ri3ht8
A. ;here "oen,t h$&e to 1e $ tructure. An" hitoric$(('# there h$n,t 1een in $ (ot of itu$tion# 0hich i
0h' 0e run into o 4$n' pro1(e4 in port.

/. Aut it, "eci"e" in the port conte)t th$t 1ec$ue thee pro1(e4 co4e up o&er $n" o&er $3$in# it
4$2e ene to h$&e tructure@ ri3ht8
A. ;h$t tructure 0$ 1ui(t o&er $ (on3 perio" of ti4e# reco3ni>in3 the conf(ict inherent in it.
/. <i3ht. I,4 $2in3 0hether or not th$t, the $4e itu$tion 0ith concert tour 0here "octor $re
co4p$r$ti&e(' r$re.
A. I 0ou(" $' the concert tour in"utr' oun" (i2e it, 1ehin" the port 4e"icine in"utr'.
/. No0# 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t $n' ti4e $ thir" p$rt' i fin$nci$((' in&o(&e" in the tour# the thir" p$rt' h$
o4e $' in chooin3 the tour, pro"uction t$ff@ ri3ht8
A. 7e. ;he' h$&e $ reponi1i(it' 1ec$ue the' $re $ p$rt' to it.
/. An" it, 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t in thi int$nce# AEG Li&e h$" $ ri3ht to chooe the tour
pro"uction t$ff8
A. I preu4e it 0$ $ ne3oti$tion 1et0een $ nu41er of peop(e# $ oppoe" to $n in"i&i"u$( 4$2in3 one
/. An" in f$ct# if !ich$e( J$c2on choe the pri4$r' pro"uction t$ff# $n" AEG Li&e =ut p$i" for
the4# 0ou(" th$t ch$n3e $n' of 'our opinion in thi c$e8
A. No.
/. Aec$ue in 'our opinion# =ut the p$'4ent o1(i3$tion cre$te the choice# e&en if the peron "oen,t
$ctu$((' h$&e the choice8
A. An" the pro"uction t$ff $ren,t pro&i"in3 4e"ic$( c$re th$t c$n $ffect o4eone, he$(th.
/. An" 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t e&en
A. !ort3$3e co4p$n' th$t 0$ p$'in3 for Dr. !urr$' 0ou(" h$&e o4e $' in Dr. !urr$', c$re $n"
A. Depen"in3 on ho0 it 0$ tructure". If there 0$ $ repreent$tion 4one' 0$ (ent 0ith cert$in
e)pect$tion# 'e@ if not# then# no.
/. So if 4one' i (in2e" 0ith e)pect$tion# there, $ pro1(e4@ $n" if the 4one' i (ent 0ithout
e)pect$tion# there, not8
A. If 4one' i (ent 0ith e)pect$tion# then the (en"er 1eco4e $ thir" p$rt' to the re($tionhip.
/. An" 0h$t if the e)pect$tion i th$t the $rtit 0i(( 1e pro&i"e" 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re $n" 2ept in 3oo"
he$(th8 Doe th$t cre$te $ conf(ict of interet8
A. ;h$t, $ 3oo" e)pect$tion# 1ut it, =ut $n e)pect$tion.

/. <i3ht. Aut 'ou =ut $i" th$t the conf(ict of interet $rri&e 1ec$ue of the e)pect$tion. Doe it 4$tter
0h$t the e)pect$tion $re8
A. A' 5e)pect$tion#5 I 4e$n con"ition of the $3ree4ent# 'e. ;he e)pect$tion th$t he pro&i"e 3oo"
4e"ic$( c$re i $ nor4$( e)pect$tion# 'e.
/. O2$'. So i it or i it not $ pro1(e4 to (en" 99 (et, 3o 1$c2 to the 4ort3$3e co4p$n'. ;he 4ort3$3e
co4p$n' (en" 4one' to p$' for Dr. !urr$'# $n" it $'# 5the on(' thin3 I e)pect fro4 'ou i 'ou
pro&i"e 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re.5 conf(ict or no conf(ict8
A. -e((# the f$ct i# the',re puttin3 one con"ition ri3ht there 1' $'in3# 50e e)pect 'ou to pro&i"e 3oo"
4e"ic$( c$re.5 0h$t i 53oo" 4e"ic$( c$re5 to the 4ort3$3e co4p$n'8
/. -e((# th$t, 0h$t I,4 $2in3. Doe th$t cre$te $ conf(ict of interet# =ut th$t8
A. It cou("# 1ec$ue the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' 4$' "efine 54e"ic$( c$re5 $ cert$in 0$'. If the 99
/. Let, $' the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' h$ no "efinition of 54e"ic$( c$re.5 the',re re('in3 on the
ph'ici$n, "efinition of 4e"ic$( c$re.
A. -h' "oen,t the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' 3i&e the 4one' 0ith no con"ition8
/. !$'1e the',re concerne" $1out 3i&in3 4one' 0ith no con"ition. !$'1e the' 0$nt to enure th$t
the peron h$ 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re. I,4 $2in3 if th$t cre$te $ conf(ict.
A. I 1e(ie&e it "oe cre$te $ conf(ict.
/. So 'ou thin2 th$t $ 4ort3$3e co4p$n' (en"in3 4one' to !ich$e( J$c2on, "octor# $'in3# 5pro&i"e
3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re#5 cre$te $ conf(ict of interet $n" ri2 th$t the "octor 0i(( not pro&i"e 3oo" 4e"ic$(
A. A3$in# it "epen" on the con"ition in there. ;he 4ort3$3e co4p$n' 4$' ne&er $2 0h$t the 4one'
i for# in 0hich c$e there, no con"ition.
/. In 4' h'pothetic$(# there, one con"ition.
A. ;h$t the "octor pro&i"e 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re8
/. 7e.
A. If it, =ut $ t$te4ent# if it, $ contr$ct th$t "efine 0h$t 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re i# in the e'e of the
4ort3$3e co4p$n' th$t cou(" 1e $ conf(ict. If it, =ut $ t$te4ent# 5p(e$e "o the 1et 'ou c$n#5 th$t
"oen,t oun" (i2e $ conf(ict.
/. So if the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' =ut $i"# 5I,4 (en"in3 'ou the 4one' to 1e $ ph'ici$n on the tour.
+(e$e pro&i"e the 1et 4e"ic$( c$re 'ou 2no0 ho0 to#5 th$t, not $ conf(ict8
A. ;he 4ort3$3e co4p$n' i t$(2in3 to the ph'ici$n8

/. In the contr$ct.
A. So there i $ contr$ct8
/. In thi h'pothetic$(# there, $ contr$ct 0ith thi one con"ition.
A. 5+(e$e pro&i"e 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re58
/. <i3ht. 5-e 0i(( (en" thi 4one' on the con"ition th$t 'ou pro&i"e 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re $ "efine" 1'
'our fie(" $n" 1' 'ou.5
A. An" i the ph'ici$n $ i3n$tor' to th$t contr$ct8
/. 7e. An" the 4ort3$3e co4p$n'.
A. An" i the p$'4ent con"ition$( upon the ph'ici$n pro&i"in3 0h$t the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' thin2 i
3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re8
/. ;he 4ort3$3e co4p$n' i not "efinin3 the 4e"ic$( c$re. I,4 =ut $2in3 'ou if there, $ conf(ict.
A. Doe the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' h$&e the c$p$cit' to top p$'4ent of th$t 4ort3$3e if the',re not h$pp'
0ith the 4e"ic$( c$re# or recei&e $n in"ic$tion th$t there $re pro1(e4 0ith the 4e"ic$( c$re8
/. I 0ou(" $' 5no#5 un(e the' 0ere e&ere.
A. ;hen 0h' "on,t the' =ut 3i&e $ 4ort3$3e $n" not h$&e $ con"ition in it8
/. I,4 not $2in3 'ou 0h' "oe the 4ort3$3e co4p$n' chooe to "o it thi 0$'.
A. <i3ht.
/. I,4 $2in3 "oe th$t in ite(f 99
A. I 0$nt to 4eet thi 4ort3$3e co4p$n'. I thin2 there, $ potenti$( for conf(ict# 3i&en 0h$t 0e,&e =ut
/. So there, $ potenti$( for conf(ict8
A. 7e.
/. E&en in th$t itu$tion8
A. 7e.
/. No0# $ $ p$i" e)pert# there, $(o potenti$( for conf(ict of interet for 'our 0or2 in thi c$e@ ri3ht8
A. ;here i $ potenti$(# 'e.
/. Aec$ue 'ou,re p$i" for 'our ti4e to 1e here8

A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou,re 3ettin3 H500 $n hour to 1e here8
A. 7e.
/. An" preu4$1('# if the p($intiff "i"n,t (i2e the opinion 'ou 0ere 3i&in3 in thi c$e# the' 0ou("n,t
p$' 'ou to it in th$t ch$ir8
A. I 1e(ie&e I,4 1ein3 p$i" for 4' ti4e# not to 1e ittin3 in the ch$ir.
/. 7ou,re cert$in(' 1ein3 p$i" for 'our ti4e in the 0itne t$n"# thou3h@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" it, f$ir to $' th$t if 'ou," 3one to p($intiff $n" $i"# 57ou 2no0 0h$t8 I "on,t $3ree 0ith 'our
interpret$tion of the "ocu4ent $n" 'our un"ert$n"in3 of the c$e#5 the' pro1$1(' 0ou("n,t h$&e
1rou3ht 'ou 1$c2 here to tetif'@ ri3ht8
A. If I "i$3ree"# I "on,t thin2 I 0ou(" h$&e t$2en on thi c$e ri3ht fro4 the 1e3innin3.
/. <i3ht. Aut th$t, not 4' Euetion. +($intiff 0ou("n,t h$&e 1rou3ht 'ou here un(e 'ou $3ree" 0ith
the4@ ri3ht8
A. I thin2 99 I,&e foun" thi 3roup of ($0'er th$t I,&e 0or2e" 0ith on thi to 1e 99 to not 1e &er'
"irecti&e in ter4 of te((in3 4e 0h$t to $' or not to $'. I,&e foun" the4 to 1e &er' upporti&e of 4'
c$p$cit' to e&$(u$te the recor" on 4' o0n $n" 4$2e 4' o0n "eciion.
/. A3$in# th$t, not 4' Euetion.
A. A(( ri3ht.
/. !' Euetion i? If 'ou h$" e&$(u$te" the recor" on 'our o0n $n" 4$"e 'our o0n "eciion $n"
co4e to $ conc(uion th$t the' "i"n,t (i2e# the' pro1$1(' 0ou("n,t h$&e c$((e" 'ou into court to tetif'@
A. +ro1$1(' not.
/. So it, f$ir to $' th$t 'ou,re 3ettin3 p$i" o4e 4ore 4one'# "on,t 2no0 ho0 4uch# 1ec$ue 'ou
h$&e $n opinion th$t $3ree 0ith p($intiff8
A. 7e.
/. I it poi1(e th$t 'our "eire to 4$2e 4ore 4one' fro4 tetif'in3 h$ inf(uence" 'our teti4on' in
$n' 0$'8
A. It, poi1(e# 1ut I "on,t thin2 it, true.

/. Aec$ue 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t 'our =u"34ent i in"epen"ent@ ri3ht8
A. -e((# e&er'thin3 I,&e "one i open recor". I,4 not 3oin3 to $' $n'thin3 th$t, 3oin3 to inf(uence or
"$4$3e 4' reput$tion 1ec$ue e&er'thin3 i open. In f$ct# $t the "epoition 0ith 'ou# 'ou h$" 'our
o0n 0itne on conf(ict of interet there in the "epoition I 0$ 3i&in3# o th$t 0$ in the open# (i2e the
ret of the pu1(ic recor" i.
/. <i3ht. ;h$t 0$n,t 4' Euetion. !' Euetion i? 7ou,re tr'in3 h$r"# 1ec$ue 'ou,re $ profeion$(#
not to (et the poi1i(it' of 3ettin3 4ore 4one' inf(uence 'our teti4on' in thi c$e8
A. Correct. Aut I "on,t h$&e fin$nci$( =u"34ent $3$int 4e $n" $ hu3e 4ort3$3e $n" other 2in" of 99
if I "i"n,t t$2e thi c$e on# it 0ou("n,t $ffect 4e fin$nci$(('. I "on,t nee" to t$2e the c$e on.
/. So 0e,re 1$c2 to if 'ou "on,t nee" $ =o1# 'ou c$n 1e unethic$(@ 1ut if 'ou "o nee" 'our =o1# 'ou c$n
1e 4or$((' co4pro4ie"8
A. ;here, "e3ree in there. It, not nece$ri(' 1in$r'. Not 1($c2 $n" 0hite# entire('.
/. Aut 'ou,re confi"ent# 1ec$ue 'ou,re $n ethic$( ph'ici$n# th$t 'ou h$&e not (et the pro4ie of
p$'4ent inf(uence 'our teti4on' in $n' 0$'# h$pe or for48
A. I 2no0 th$t ethic c$n 1e ero"e"# $n" I,4 conciou of it. I "on,t thin2 in thi c$e the' h$&e.
/. An" in f$ct# th$t, p$rt of 'our "utie $ $ ph'ici$n# ri3ht# to (oo2 $t the itu$tion# to $c2no0(e"3e
$n' poi1(e conf(ict# $n" then fi3ht the4 $cti&e('8
A. In ter4 of he$(thc$re# th$t, 0h$t the hippocr$tic o$th i# 'e# $(thou3h thi in,t he$(th c$re.
/. 7ou,re $'in3 'ou h$&e no ethic$( o1(i3$tion in thi c$e8
A. I h$&e ethic$( o1(i3$tion in thi c$e.
/. An" it, ti(( 'our o1(i3$tion to e&$(u$te the itu$tion proper(' $n" not 1e co4pro4ie" 1' the
pro4ie of p$'4ent8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t 'ou $t (e$t $re c$p$1(e of "oin3 th$t8
A. 7e.
/. No0# 0e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it to"$' $n" 'eter"$' $1out the i"e$ of Dr. !urr$' co4in3 on tour# $n" 'ou
$re $'in3 th$t 'ou re$((' thin2 it 0ou(" h$&e 1een 1etter to "o o4ethin3 "ifferent th$n# $' 99 th$n to
"o 0h$t !ich$e( J$c2on $ctu$((' $2e"@ ri3ht8
A. ;he' h$" $ choice# 'e.
/. An" 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t it 0$ pro1(e4$tic for Dr. !urr$' to 3o on tour 0ith !r. J$c2on8

A. 7e.
/ $n" i it or i it not 'our teti4on' th$t if AEG Li&e h$" i4p(' 3i&en !ich$e( J$c2on the 4one' to
p$' Dr. !urr$'# there 0ou(" h$&e 1een no conf(ict of interet8
A. -ithout the $4e ter4 $n" con"ition th$t e)ite" in the $3ree4ent8
/. -e((# (et, $' th$t AEG Li&e on(' 3i&e !r. J$c2on the 4one' $ (on3 $ the tour continue.
A. I,4 not ure I un"ert$n".
/. So (et, $' th$t the itu$tion i e)$ct(' (i2e the itu$tion 0$# in th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ 1ro2e# !r.
J$c2on 0$ h$&in3 the tour fin$nce" 1' AEG Li&e# $n" !r. J$c2on $'# 5Fe'# I 0$nt to 1rin3 4'
(on39ti4e peron$( ph'ici$n on tour.5 An" AEG Li&e $'# 5Gre$t. -e,(( $"&$nce 'ou H150#000 $
4onth# p$' 'our "octor 0h$te&er 'ou 0$nt. Aut if the tour i c$nce(e"# o1&iou(' the $"&$nce 0i(( 1e
cut off# 1ec$ue th$t, true 0ith e&er' $"&$nce in the tour58
A. ;h$t, ti(( $ conf(ict of interet.
/. So th$t, ti(( $ pro1(e48
A. ;h$t, ti(( $ pro1(e4.
/. So there, 99 0h$t if AEG Li&e $'# 5I,(( p$' 'ou 1.5 4i((ion upfront# 1ut if the tour i c$nce(e"# $t
o4e point 'ou h$&e to p$' 1$c2 th$t entire $4ount#5 $n" the' te(( th$t to !ich$e( J$c2on8
A. It, ti(( $ conf(ict of interet.
/. -h$t if !ich$e( J$c2on 99 0h$t if AEG Li&e "oen,t 2no0 $n'thin3 $1out Dr. !urr$'. ;he' 3i&e
!ich$e( J$c2on $ H35 4i((ion $"&$nce $n" $'# 5Go put 'our o0n tour to3ether.5 $n" !ich$e( J$c2on
"eci"e to 1rin3 in Dr. !urr$' $n" p$' hi4 H150#000 $ 4onth 0ith the con"ition th$t the tour "oen,t
3o on# the p$'4ent i c$nce(e"8
A. -e((# Dr. !urr$' 0ou(" ti(( 1e conf(icte" in th$t itu$tion. AEG Li&e# if their on(' ro(e 0$ to 3i&e
hi4 $ ($r3e u4 of 4one'# 2ne0 nothin3 $1out hi4# no contr$ct# no pro&iion# th$t 0ou(" 1e $ 4uch
re"uce" conf(ict# 1ut it 0ou(" ti(( e)it.
/. Fo0 0ou(" it 1e re"uce"8 I 3ue th$t, 4' Euetion# 1ec$ue either 0$'# ri3ht# the 99 if the tour i
c$nce(e" or potpone"# Dr. !urr$' "oen,t 3o on tour# Dr. !urr$' "oen,t 3et the 4one'8
A. Aec$ue 0h$t 0ou(" h$ppen if Dr. !urr$' 0$ conf(icte" i# he cou(" 4$2e 1$" 4e"ic$( "eciion#
$n" then th$t, the pro1(e4.
/. <i3ht.
A. Aut if AEG Li&e 0ere in&o(&e"# then there cou(" 1e in"epen"ent inf(uence on hi 4e"ic$( "eciion9
/. I,4 confue" $ (itt(e 1it# Dr. !$theon. Sorr'. So in either itu$tion# Dr. !urr$' i 3ettin3 H150#000 $

4onth th$t top if the tour i c$nce(e" or potpone". Aut 'ou 1e(ie&e i4p(' 1' &irtue of h$&in3 $
ep$r$te contr$ct 0ith AEG Li&e# there, o4e $""ition$( conf(ict or preure# $n" th$t, 0h$t I,4 tr'in3
to unp$c2 $ (itt(e 1it.
A. 7e. ;he "octor 0$ $n0er$1(e to AEG In th$t contr$ct.
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ $n0er$1(e to AEG# $n" th$t, $ ep$r$te ource of conf(ict8
A. 7e.
/. So if th$t p$rt c$4e out 99
A. Of the contr$ct8
/. 7e. ;he p$rt th$t 'ou,re c($i4in3 i $n0er$1(e to AEG Li&e. -e,(( t$(2 $1out th$t $ (itt(e 1it thi
$fternoon. Other0ie# it 0ou(" 1e e)$ct(' the $4e itu$tion8
A. -e((# there, $(o the i44e"i$te ter4in$tion.
/. <i3ht. Aut th$t, in 1oth 4' h'pothetic$(.
A. ;here, the e)pect$tion th$t the pro"ucer h$# for the ho0 to 3o on# th$t cou(" ti(( inf(uence
4e"ic$( c$re.
/. <i3ht. Aut 0e =ut too2 th$t out of the eEu$tion.
A. Aut i it out of the eEu$tion or out of the contr$ct8
/. -e((# in thi h'pothetic$(# the pro"ucer ne&er t$(2e" to Dr. !urr$'# o 0h$te&er the pro"ucer,
e)pect$tion $re# the' ne&er t$(2e" to Dr. !urr$'.
A. An" $(( thoe e4$i( "on,t t$2e p($ce# $n" the 4eetin3 "on,t t$2e p($ce# $n" the phone c$(( "on,t
t$2e p($ce8
/. I,4 $2in3 $1out the etup. So (et, (e$&e $i"e the e4$i( $n" phone c$(( th$t 0e,re t$(2in3 $1out.
A(thou3h# there 0eren,t $n' e4$i(# to 'our 2no0(e"3e# 1et0een AEG Li&e $n" Dr. !urr$' re($tin3 to
!r. J$c2on, c$re@ ri3ht8
A. Correct. So the etup# it ti(( c$rrie $ conf(ict of interet. Not $ 3re$t# thou3h# $ e)ite" in thi
/. Aut either 0$'# 0e h$&e the $4e core pro1(e4 th$t 'ou,&e i"entifie" $ $ core pro1(e4# 0hich i#
Dr. !urr$' on(' 3et p$i" for 3oin3 on the tour if he $ctu$((' 3oe on the tour8
A. 7e.
/. No0# it, 'our un"ert$n"in3# thou3h# in,t it# th$t !r. J$c2on h$" 1een uin3 the er&ice of Dr.
!urr$' for three 'e$r prior to the ;hi I It tour@ ri3ht8

A. !' un"ert$n"in3 i he h$" een hi4 (e th$n 10 ti4e. I thin2 it 0$ i) ti4e o&er th$t three9'e$r
/. An" 'ou,re 1$in3 th$t on 4e"ic$( recor"@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' 2ept $"eEu$te or co4p(ete 4e"ic$( recor" of hi
&iit 0ith !r. J$c2on8
A. No# I h$&en,t een thoe recor".
/. In f$ct# he 2ept no recor" of the entire perio" he tre$te" hi4 "urin3 $pri(# 4$' $n" June 200D@
A. Not to 4' 2no0(e"3e. Correct.
/. So it, poi1(e he tre$te" hi4 4uch 4ore freEuent(' in the prior 'e$r $n" =ut "i"n,t 2eep recor"
of the48
A. ;heoretic$(('.
/. 7ou h$&e no re$on to 1e(ie&e he "i" 2eep $"eEu$te recor"8
A. ;h$t he 2ept $"eEu$te recor" or th$t he tre$te" hi4 4ore often8
/. ;h$t he 2ept $"eEu$te recor".
A. No. I "on,t h$&e $n opinion either 0$'.
/. An" 'ou 2no0 th$t he "i" tre$t hi4 $t (e$t fro4 200G8
A. 7e. Epio"ic$(('.
/. -e((# 'our 1$i for 5epio"ic$(('5 i thee 4e"ic$( recor"@ ri3ht8
A. An" not (i&in3 in the $4e to0n.
/. -e((# the' 1oth (i&e" in L$ Ve3$# "i"n,t the'8
A. Continuou('8
/. ;o 4' un"ert$n"in3. I th$t ri3ht8
A. %h4# 4' un"ert$n"in3 i the tre$t4ent 0$ epio"ic# 2in" of hit $n" 4i. It 0$n,t re3u($r.
/. An" 'our 1$i for th$t un"ert$n"in3 i8
A. I 4e"ic$( recor"# 'e.

/. O2$'. So if the 4e"ic$( recor" $re not $ccur$te# then 'ou "on,t $ctu$((' h$&e $n' i"e$ ho0 often Dr.
!urr$' tre$te" !r. J$c2on8
A. I "on,t h$&e $n $ccur$te fi3ure# nece$ri('# other th$n 4' i4preion# correct.
/. Aut th$t, $(( i,4 $2in3. Do 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t if the tour 0ere c$nce(e"# !r.
J$c2on 0ou(" u""en(' top eein3 Dr. !urr$'8
A. No. I "on,t h$&e $n' e&i"ence.
/. An" he h$" in f$ct een hi4# $t (e$t on $n" off# for $t (e$t three 'e$r@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou,re $0$re th$t $ of $t (e$t $ 'e$r 1efore the tour# Dr. !urr$' 0$ $cco4p$n'in3 !r.
J$c2on to $ppoint4ent 0ith other ph'ici$n@ ri3ht8
A. 7e# I $4.
/. An" 'ou,re $0$re th$t he 0$ intro"uce" $ hi peron$( ph'ici$n8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t re($tionhip 0ou(" h$&e u""en(' en"e" =ut 1ec$ue
the tour 0$ c$nce(e"8
A. I 0ou(" pecu($te# 1ut# no# I "on,t h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t.
/. So (et, t$(2 $1out 4$' of 200D. So $t thi point# !r. J$c2on i $pp$rent(' he$(th' to $(( concerne"@
A. 7e.
/. -or2in3 out e&er' "$'8
A. I he8
/. I,4 $2in3.
A. I "on,t 2no0 if he, 0or2in3 out e&er' "$'.
/. Do 'ou 2no0 if he, in&o(&e" $n" en3$3e" in rehe$r$( $t thi point8
A. I 1e(ie&e he i in&o(&e" 0ith rehe$rin3# 'e# in 4$'.
/. Aut it, 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t no one h$" $n' concern $1out !r. J$c2on, he$(th in !$' 200D@

A. ;h$t, $ "ifficu(t Euetion to $n0er. I "on,t 2no0 if peop(e h$" concern $1out hi he$(th. I thin2
there 0ere concern $1out 3ettin3 thi ho0 3oin3 $n" $ potenti$( there. Aut pecific concern# no.
/. 7e$h. It, not 4e$nt to 1e $ h$r" Euetion. ;here, nothin3 'ou c$n point to 4e pecific$((' th$t
u33et $n'1o"' 0$ concerne" $1out !r. J$c2on, he$(th in !$' 200D8
A. Correct.
/. So $t th$t point# !r. J$c2on co4e up to AEG Li&e $n" $'# 5I 0$nt to 1rin3 4' (on39ti4e "octor
on tour5@ ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" it, 'our 99 it, 'our opinion th$t AEG Li&e hou(" h$&e $i"# 5No# 'ou c$n,t 1rin3 'our o0n
"octor on tour5@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" hou(" h$&e 3one to o4e 4e"ic$( intitution# (i2e %CLA# or $ hopit$( in Lon"on# to
coor"in$te !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut 'ou,re $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t AEG Li&e $tte4pte" to con&ince !r. J$c2on to ue $ hopit$( in
Lon"on r$ther th$n Dr. !urr$'@ ri3ht8
A. A(( I re4e41er i th$t there, $ &$3ue reference to# 5;here, 3re$t 4e"ic$( c$re in Lon"on.5
/. 7ou,&e on(' re$" h$(f of !r. +hi((ip, teti4on' in thi c$e@ ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou h$&en,t re$" !r. Gon3$0$re, tri$( teti4on'8
A. Correct.
/. So 'ou,re not $0$re of 0h$t the' tetifie" $1out their $tte4pt to peru$"e !r. J$c2on not to ue
Dr. !urr$' 1ut inte$" to ue the f$ci(it' of $ hopit$( or 4e"ic$( er&ice in Lon"on8
A. Correct.
/. So $u4e for $ 4o4ent th$t the' "i" "o th$t# $n" Dr. !urr$' then 99 !r. J$c2on then c$4e 1$c2
$n" $i"# 5No# I 0$nt 4' "octor# Dr. !urr$'. Fe, 4' peron$( "octor. I,4 0i((in3 to p$' for hi4 $t
H150#000 $ 4onth. Jut "o the p$per0or2.5 At th$t point# it, ti(( 'our opinion th$t AEG Li&e cou(" not
"o 0h$t !r. J$c2on $2e"8
A. Shou(" not h$&e# correct.
/. Jut no 0$' th$t cou(" 1e "one ethic$(('8

A. No. I 0ou("n,t "o th$t.
/. 7ou 0on,t# 1ut it, 'our opinion th$t no one cou(" "o th$t8
A. -e((# th$t 99 the conf(ict of interet potenti$( i too hi3h.
/. So =ut "oin3 0h$t the p$tient $2 $n" $"&$ncin3 the 4one' for the "octor# (i2e e&er'one e(e on
the tour# 0hen 'ou 1e(ie&e the p$tient i he$(th'# th$t in $n" of ite(f i =ut not poi1(e8
A. It, theoretic$((' poi1(e# 1ut it cre$te $ ri2 for conf(ict th$t, u1t$nti$(.
Ms. %teins$ &.a!. *;m )oin) to )o into another area. 1nd it;s 12$000 so 77
-ud)e$ &.a!. 1$30.
9<unch rea.:
Cross7examination ! -essica %teins$
/. Goo" $fternoon# Dr. !$theon.
A. Goo" $fternoon.
/. Di" 'ou h$&e
A. Nice (unch8
A. 7e# th$n2 'ou.
/. ;$(2 $1out the c$e $t $((8
A. No.
/. An' of 'our opinion8
A. !r. +$nih "i" $2 4e for i"e(ine p$e to the %SC 3$4e# 1ut 99
/. I th$t $ conf(ict of interet8
A. I hope not.
/. A(( ri3ht. Dr. !$theon# 0e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it e$r(ier thi 4ornin3# $n" I 0$nt to 4$2e ure I
un"ert$n" 'ou# 'ou 1e(ie&e there i no 0$' th$t $ ph'ici$n cou(" ethic$((' 3o on tour 0ith $n $rtit
$roun" the 0or("8

A. It "epen" on ho0 it, tructure".
/. So 'ou thin2 there 4i3ht 1e $ 0$'8
A. It, poi1(e# 'e.
/. Do 'ou rec$(( $'in3 o4ethin3 "ifferent in 'our "epoition8
A. I c$n,t rec$((# orr'.
Ms. %teins$ Go ahead and pla! that clip * had this mornin)0 8hich is 21/0 line /0 throu)h 2180
line 3.
Mr. Panish$ =old on a second. 21/7/ to 23,
Ms. %teins$ 2o 21873.
Mr. Panish$ &.a!. Go ahead.
9a 3ideo clip +rom Dr. Matheson;s deposition is pla!ed durin) 8hich the +ollo8in) testimon! 8as
Q. In your view, is there any way that a physician could ethically go on tour with an artist around the
A. I think if they were set up as part of a group that had good checks and balances, and that was
A. Credible entity, and they rotated people through, I think it's possible.
Q. I'm asking about one physician, not a rotating group.
A. I think it's very difficult. ow would that physician stay up to speed with medical education and with
the normal rounds that they attend and the educational sort of opportunities? !hey wouldn't have their
"" their thinking shaped day to day by running patients by other people. !hat would be
A. #retty lonely, isolated way to practice medicine.
Q. $o is the answer no?
A. %o.
Q. It's not possible?
A. Correct.

/. So# Dr. !$theon# i it poi1(e for $ in3(e "octor to tr$&e( 0ith $n $rtit or not8
A. It, poi1(e if the con"ition 0ere correct# 'e.
/. So 'ou 0$nt to correct 0h$t 'ou $i" $t 'our "epoition 0hen 'ou $i" it 0$n,t poi1(e8
A. 7e. I "on,t thin2 it i poi1(e un"er the circu4t$nce in thi c$e.
/. Aut 'ou thin2 'ou there, o4e h'pothetic$( c$e 0here it 4i3ht 1e poi1(e# =ut 99
A. It, poi1(e to concei&e of $ h'pothetic$( c$e# 'e.
/. An" o un(i2e 0h$t 'ou thou3ht $t 'our "epoition# 'ou no0 thin2 there, o4e h'pothetic$( c$e
0here it 4i3ht 1e poi1(e8
A. I thin2 it, $ 4$(( ch$nce# 1ut it, poi1(e# 'e.
/. -e 0ere t$(2in3 =ut 1efore (unch $1out the conf(ict th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e Dr. !urr$' h$" =ut 1'
p($nnin3 to 1e $ tour "octor@ $n" 0e h$" t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out the i"e$ th$t re3$r"(e of 0ho 0$
p$'in3 hi4# 'ou h$" $n iue 0ith the i"e$ th$t if he 3oe on tour $n" the tour i c$nce((e"# he (oe hi
=o1# th$t $uto4$tic$((' in $n" of ite(f# to 'ou# cre$te $ re$((' 1i3 conf(ict of interet# ri3ht8
A. So the Euetion i 0hether 1ein3 u1=ect to ter4in$tion cre$te $ conf(ict for Dr. !urr$'8
/. 7e.
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, true 0hether he, hire" "irect(' 1' AEG Li&e or hire" "irect(' 1' !ich$e( J$c2on or
hire" 1' !ich$e( J$c2on throu3h AEG Li&e 0ith !ich$e( J$c2on u(ti4$te(' p$'in3 for hi4# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. No 4$tter 0ho, p$'in3 for hi48
A. 7e# $(thou3h it, "ifferent. I 4e$n# the e)tent of th$t conf(ict i "ifferent "epen"in3 on 0ho i
p$'in3. Aut he i conf(icte"@ $n" if he, ter4in$te"# 'e# th$t, true.
/. An" it, Dr. !urr$', conf(ict# ri3ht8
A. It 1e3in 0ith Dr. !urr$', conf(ict.
/. An" it, Dr. !urr$', "ut' to 4$n$3e conf(ict# $ 0e t$(2e" $1out e$r(ier# ri3ht8
A. It, hi "ut' to tr' to 4$n$3e conf(ict# correct.
/. An"# in f$ct# $ccor"in3 to the 4e"ic$( $oci$tion, 3ui"e(ine# if he fin" hi4e(f in $n i4poi1(e
itu$tion# it, hi "ut' to t$2e hi4e(f out of th$t itu$tion# ri3ht8

A. If he c$n# 'e.
/. An" no 4$tter ho0 4uch preure he, un"er# he ti(( h$ hi o1(i3$tion to fo((o0 the hippocr$tic
o$th $n" tre$t hi p$tient ethic$(('# ri3ht8
A. -e((# the e&i"ence 0i(( ho0 'ou c$n,t 0itht$n" $n un(i4ite" $4ount of preure. It, &er' "ifficu(t
/. So 'ou 2no0 of pecific tu"ie 0here the e&i"ence ho0 th$t $ ph'ici$n, 0i(( 0$ co4p(ete('
co4pro4ie" to the point the' h$" no choice8
A. I "on,t thin2 it, 1($c2 $n" 0hite# I thin2 it, "e3ree of e&erit'# $n" the 3re$ter the conf(ict# the
incre$e" (i2e(ihoo" th$t poor "eciion 0i(( 1e 4$"e.
/. Aut 'ou,re not $'in3 Dr. !urr$' h$" no choice here# ri3ht8
A. Fe h$" $ choice# 'e.
/. Fe h$" $ choice not to tre$t !ich$e( J$c2on in $ 4e"ic$((' "$n3erou 0$'8
A. ;h$t choice 4$' h$&e 1een to forfeit hi =o1# 1ut he h$" $ choice.
/. <i3ht. An" if 4' =o1 to(" 4e to "o o4ethin3 unethic$(# 'ou 0ou(" e)pect 4e to Euit r$ther th$n
1re$ch the o$th I,&e t$2en $ $n officer of =u"3e# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, 0h$t 'ou 0ou(" "o if 'ou 0ere 3i&en the choice 1et0een 'our =o1 $n" o4ethin3
unethic$(# ri3ht8
A. 7e. Aut I thin2 conf(ict of interet i $ 99 i $ et of circu4t$nce# not $ in3(e e&ent# o it t$2e
p($ce o&er ti4e# $n" 'ou 4i3ht co4e to th$t conc(uion $fter $ perio" of ti4e.
Ms. %teins$ 5our honor0 * mo3e to stri.e as nonresponsi3e e3er!thin) a+ter the 8ord 6!es.6
-ud)e$ Motion )ranted. 2hat portion is stric.en.
/. Dr. !$theon# 0e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it thi 4ornin3 $1out the i"e$ th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t $n'one 0ho
p$' for ph'ici$n er&ice h$ o4e in&o(&e4ent in their c$re $n" o4e reponi1i(it' for the p$tient,
c$re# correct8
A. 7e.
/. So if I 0ent to $ "octor $n" 4' frien" p$i" for the "octor for 4e# 0ou(" 4' frien" h$&e $ ri3ht to
inf(uence 4' 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. 7ou 0ent to ee $ "octor $n" 'our frien" 3$&e 'ou 4one' to p$' for the "octor8
/. Or 4' frien" 0ent on the &iit 0ith 4e $n" p$i" the "octor. I,4 =ut $2in3 ho0e&er 4' frien" p$i"

the "octor# "oen,t 4$tter ho0 the' p$i"# "o 'ou the' h$&e the ri3ht to inf(uence 4' c$re =ut 1'
A. 6or $ in3(e &iit8
/. Sure.
A. No.
/. -h$t $1out for 100 &iit8
A. One 0ou(" 0on"er 0h'# $n" I thin2 th$t, $ re$on$1(e Euetion to $2# 0h' $re the' "oin3 th$t.
/. ;h$t, not the Euetion. ;he Euetion i "o the' then h$&e $ ri3ht or $n o1(i3$tion re3$r"in3 4' c$re#
=ut 1et0een 4e $n" 4' frien"# 4' frien" p$' for 4' "octor, &iit.
A. Not nece$ri('# un(e there, o4e tructure I,4 not $0$re of.
/. An" if I p$i" for 4' he$(thc$re 0ith $ cre"it c$r"# "oe the cre"it c$r" co4p$n' h$&e $ ri3ht to
"ict$te 4' 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. No.
/. An" if 4' 0or2 p$' for 4' he$(thc$re throu3h $ 4$n$3e" c$re or throu3h inur$nce# "oe 4'
e4p(o'er h$&e the ri3ht to "ict$te 4' he$(thc$re8
A. No.
/. So it, not =ut the f$ct of p$'in3# ri3ht8
A. It, not on(' the f$ct of co&erin3 the cot# correct.
/. F$ to 1e o4ethin3 4ore th$n =ut p$'in3 for he$(thc$re8
A. 7e.
/. O2$'. Let, t$(2 $ (itt(e 1it $1out o4e of the "ocu4ent th$t 'ou 0ent throu3h 'eter"$' $n" thi
4ornin3. An" the firt one I 0$nt to t$(2 $1out 0$ the "r$ft contr$ct 1et0een AEG Li&e $n" Dr.
!urr$'. An"# p$4# if 'ou cou(" put th$t up. It, e)hi1it 3C3. Dr. !$theon# 'ou,&e re&ie0e" thi
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou un"ert$n" thi i $n une)ecute" contr$ct# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou,&e ne&er een $ &erion 0ith !r. J$c2on, i3n$ture on it8

A. I c$n,t rec$(( if I h$&e.
/. 7ou c$n,t rec$(( 0hether 'ou,&e e&er een $ &erion 0ith !r. J$c2on, i3n$ture8
A. Correct# I c$n,t.
/. Fo0 4uch ti4e h$&e 'ou pent on thi c$e8
A. Aroun" 100 hour.
/. An" 0ith 100 hour# 'ou "on,t 2no0 0hether the 2e' contr$ct in the c$e 0$ e&er i3ne" 1' !r.
Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ &3erruled.
A. I 1e(ie&e it 0$# 1ut I,4 not 100 percent poiti&e.
/. 7ou 1e(ie&e th$t !r. J$c2on i3ne" thi contr$ct8
A. I c$n,t rec$((.
/. I,(( repreent to 'ou =ut for the $2e of to"$' th$t he, not 99 there i no e&i"ence in the recor" th$t
he i3ne" th$t contr$ct. O2$'8
A. O2$'.
/. So (et, $u4e th$t he "i" not i3n it# $n" $u4e th$t AEG Li&e "i" not i3n it. No0# 'ou cite" $
coup(e of "ifferent pro&iion of thi contr$ct 'eter"$'# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" the firt one 'ou t$(2e" $1out 0$ p$r$3r$ph 3. +$4# c$n 'ou 1(o0 th$t up. An" th$t, 0here it
t$te ho0 4uch 4one' per 4onth Dr. !urr$' i 3oin3 to 1e p$i"8
A. 7e.
/. Aut 'ou,re $(o $0$re of p$r$3r$ph D of the $3ree4ent th$t t$te th$t !r. J$c2on h$ to $ppro&e the
0ho(e thin3# ri3ht8 7ou c$n (e$&e p$r$3r$ph 3 up# p$4. I,(( 1e co4in3 1$c2 to it. 7ou,re $(o $0$re of
p$r$3r$ph D# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t !r. J$c2on h$ to i3n off on thi $3ree4ent8
A. 7e.
/. Goin3 1$c2 to p$r$3r$ph 3# p$r$3r$ph 3 $ctu$((' $(o $' th$t Dr. !urr$' "oen,t 3et p$i" unti( the

$3ree4ent i e)ecute"# ri3ht8
A. -h$t point i th$t in ection 38
/. 5pro"ucer h$(( re4it p$'4ent to GCA in the $4ount of 150#000 per 4onth to 1e p$i" on the ($ter of
the 15th "$' of the 4onth or fi&e 1uine "$' $fter the e)ecution $n" "e(i&erin3 the $3ree4ent.5
A. 7e.
/. So 'ou 0ou(" $3ree 0ith 4e th$t the e$r(iet Dr. !urr$' c$n 1e p$i" i $fter the $3ree4ent i
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou =ut tetifie" thi 4ornin3 there i no e&i"ence Dr. !urr$' 0$ e&er $ctu$((' p$i" 1' AEG
Li&e# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou 2no0 0hether !r. J$c2on 0$ p$'in3 Dr. !urr$' in 4$' $n" June 200D8
A. I,4 99 I 1e(ie&e there 0$ teti4on' th$t he recei&e" o4e 4$(( $4ount of c$h.
/. So 'ou $re $0$re th$t !r. J$c2on p$i" Dr. !urr$' in !$' $n" June8
A. 7e.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ e)$ct(' ho0 4uch !r. J$c2on p$i" Dr. !urr$' in 4$' $n" June8
A. I "on,t 2no0 e)$ct(' ho0 4uch. I 1e(ie&e it 0$ 4$(( $4ount# perh$p in the hun"re" of "o(($r.
/. An" $re 'ou ure th$t, the on(' $4ount th$t !r. J$c2on p$i" Dr. !urr$'# or th$t, =ut 0h$t 'ou,re
$0$re of8
A. ;h$t, =ut 0h$t I,4 $0$re of.
/. So it cou(" 1e 4ore8
A. It cou(" 1e.
/. In $n' e&ent# in thi ti4e perio"# AEG Li&e 0$ not p$'in3 Dr. !urr$'# $n" !r. J$c2on 0$8
A. 7e.
/. No0# (et, t$(2 $ (itt(e 1it $1out p$r$3r$ph C.1# 1ec$ue 'ou t$(2e" $1out th$t $ f$ir $4ount 'eter"$'.
+$4# if 'ou cou(" 1(o0 up C.1. 7ou tetifie"# Dr. !$theon# "i"n,t 'ou# th$t thi pro&iion i
A. Ver' i4port$nt p$rt of 'our opinion th$t thi $3ree4ent cre$te" $ conf(ict of interet# ri3ht8
A. 7e.

/. Aec$ue it reEuire Dr. !urr$' to perfor4 er&ice reEuete" 1' AEG Li&e8
A. 7e.
/. -ou(" 'ou $' it, foun"$tion$( to 'our opinion8
A. 7e.
/. F$&e 'ou h$" the opportunit' to re&ie0 Sh$0n ;re((, tri$( teti4on'8
A. No.
/. So 'ou "i"n,t ee hi teti4on' $1out thi pro&iion8
A. Correct.
/. 7ou "i" re&ie0 K$th' Jorrie, "epoition teti4on' $1out thi pro&iion# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut not her teti4on' $t the cri4in$( tri$( 99
A. Correct.
/. 99 of Dr. !urr$'8 So 'ou,re $0$re# in $n' e&ent# th$t !. Jorrie tetifie" th$t Dr. !urr$' h$"
pecific$((' $2e" her to ch$n3e thi ($n3u$3e to 4$2e c(e$r th$t the contr$ct 0$ 99 th$t er&ice 0ou("
on(' 1e perfor4e" reEuete" 1' the $rtit $n" not 1' the pro"ucer# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t !. Jorrie i not 1ein3 truthfu(8
A. No.
/. Au4in3 he i 1ein3 truthfu(# $n" Dr. !urr$' pecific$((' reEuete" th$t the $3ree4ent 1e
c($rifie"# $n" AEG Li&e $3ree" to o c($rif' it# then thi 0ou(" not 1e $ 1$i for 'our opinion $n'4ore#
A. -e((# it, ti(( in there.
/. <i3ht. Aut $u4in3 it 0ou(" h$&e 1een t$2en out $n" no one 0ou(" h$&e e&er fo((o0e" it 1ec$ue it
0$ not p$rt of their intent 99
A. -e((# th$t, $n $u4ption. It ti(( i in there.
/. -e((# th$t, 0h$t I,4 $2in3. I,4 $2in3 'ou to $u4e th$t it 0$ un"ertoo" 1et0een K$th' Jorrie
$n" Sh$0n ;re(( on the one h$n" $n" Dr. !urr$' on the other h$n" th$t er&ice 0ou(" on(' 1e
reEuete" 1' the $rtit $n" not 1' the pro"ucer. So $u4in3 th$t# then there 99 thi p$rt 0ou(" no (on3er

1e $ p$rt of 'our opinion# ri3ht8
A. If there 0$ no reference to Dr. !urr$' 1ein3 $n0er$1(e to AEG# then 'e# it 0ou(" not 1e p$rt of
4' opinion.
/. An" it 0ou(" 1e $ prett' 1i3 p$rt of 'our opinion th$t "i"n,t h$&e $ foun"$tion $n'4ore# ri3ht8
A. It 0ou(" 1e $ p$rt of 4' opinion. ;hi i foun"$tion$(# 1ut it 0$ $ p$rt of 4' opinion.
/. Aut 'ou "i"n,t t$2e into $ccount !. Jorrie, teti4on' in "eter4inin3 ho0 4uch to re(' on thi
A. !r. -ho, teti4on'8
/. !. Jorrie, teti4on'. Sorr'. I pe$2 2in" of Euiet(' o4eti4e.
A. Cou(" 'ou $2 th$t $3$in# p(e$e8
/. 7ou "i"n,t t$2e into $ccount !. Jorrie, teti4on' in "eter4inin3 ho0 4uch to re(' on thi
A. ;o 4e# thi 99 the intention of thi 0$ th$t he 0ou(" 99 th$t Dr. !urr$' 0ou(" report to AEG@ 1ut it
h$"n,t 1een ch$n3e"# o to 4e# thi i 99 thi i $ "ocu4ent th$t in"ic$te 0h$t the intention 0$.
/. Aut 'ou,re $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t thi ($n3u$3e ori3in$((' $ppe$re" t0ice in the "ocu4ent8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" th$t $fter $ con&er$tion 1et0een Dr. !urr$' $n" K$th' Jorrie# it 0$ ch$n3e" in the other
A. In one of the p($ce# 'e.
/. An" then !. Jorrie h$ tetifie" un"er o$th th$t it 0$ inten"e" to 1e ch$n3e" in 1oth p($ce8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t "oen,t $ffect 'our $n$('i $t $((8
A. No.
/. 7ou =ut $u4e th$t the ($n3u$3e i $uto4$tic$((' contro((in3 no 4$tter 0h$t the p$rtie, intent
Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ &3erruled.
A. I 99 it, not =ut no 4$tter 0h$t the ($n3u$3e $'# 1ut it 0$ in 1oth ection of the 1e3innin3# $n"

preu4$1(' th$t, 0h$t AEG inten"e". An" $(thou3h it 0$ correcte" in one p($ce# it ee4 th$t th$t# to
4e# 0$ ti(( the intent.
/. So 'ou thin2 "epite !. Jorrie, teti4on' th$t he i44e"i$te(' to(" Dr. !urr$'# 5(ou're right, you
re!ort to )r. 'ackson only#5 $n" ch$n3e" the contr$ct# it 0$ AEG Li&e, intent th$t th$t 0$ not the
c$e $n" th$t the' 0ou(" contro( Dr. !urr$'8
A. So4e of the e&i"ence point to th$t# 'e.
/. So 'ou,re 0ei3hin3 the e&i"ence8
A. !' opinion i 1$e" on $(( of the e&i"ence.
/. A(( of the e&i"ence +($intiff, coune( 3$&e 'ou8
A. 7e.
/. Aut not $(( of the e&i"ence th$t, 1een preente" to the =ur' in thi c$e8
A. Not $(( of the e&i"ence the =ur' h$ recei&e"# no.
/. O2$'. An" 'ou 0ou(" $3ree th$t the =ur'# 0ho h$ 1een here for I "on,t 2no0 ho0 4$n' 4onth
no0# i in the 1et poition to e&$(u$te the e&i"ence in thi c$e# ri3ht8
Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ &3erruled.
A. 7e.
/. No0# $u4in3 99 it 0$ $(o pro1(e4$tic# $n" 0e t$(2e" $1out thi $ (ot# $n" I "on,t 0$nt to 3o
throu3h thi too 4uch $3$in 99 it, pro1(e4$tic to 'ou th$t the "r$ft contr$ct cou(" 1e ter4in$te" if the
tour c$nce((e" or potpone"# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" in 'our 4in"# th$t, $nother 2e' pro1(e4 0ith it8
A. 7e.
/. Aut the $3ree4ent "oen,t reEuire th$t Dr. !urr$' 1e ter4in$te" if the tour i potpone"# ri3ht8
A. It "oen,t reEuire it# 'e$h# correct.
/. It, poi1(e th$t the tour cou(" 1e potpone" for $ hort perio" $n" Dr. !urr$' cou(" ret$in hi
A. It, poi1(e.

/. An" it, poi1(e th$t the tour cou(" 1e potpone"# Dr. !urr$' cou(" $(o 1e potpone"# $n" then
($ter on the tour cou(" 1e reint$te" $n" Dr. !urr$' 0ou(" h$&e hi poition $3$in# ri3ht8
A. It, poi1(e# 'e.
/. An" 'ou 0ou(" $3ree 0ith 4e th$t in $n' e&ent# Dr. !urr$' 4$2e 4ore 4one' if the tour 3oe
for0$r" $n" !r. J$c2on i he$(th' the entire ti4e# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t e&en if the tour 0ere potpone" $n" Dr. !urr$' h$" to co4e 1$c2 $n" "o the tour# he
0ou(" ti(( 4$2e 4ore 4one' if the tour ($te" $ (on3er ti4e# ri3ht8
A. I,4 not ure I fo((o0 th$t.
/. Let, $' h'pothetic$((' the tour i potpone" $n" Dr. !urr$' "oen,t 3o on tour 0ith !r. J$c2on in
the u44er of 200D. I there $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t !r. J$c2on 0ou(" then not 0$nt Dr. !urr$' on
tour 0hen he 0ent on tour $ fe0 4onth ($ter8
A. No. Fe 4$' ti(( h$&e 0$nte" to# correct.
/. So it 0ou(" ti(( 1e in Dr. !urr$', interet to 2eep !r. J$c2on he$(th' $n" in $ 3oo" $ h$pe $ he
cou("# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht@ o he 0ou(" 0$it for th$t econ" tour 99 'e$h# he 0ou(" 1e une4p(o'e" for $ perio" of ti4e
$n" then co4e 1$c2 $3$in# i 'our Euetion8
/. -e((# 4' Euetion i# 'ou "on,t 2no0 0h$t 0ou(" h$&e h$ppene" in th$t itu$tion# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. Aec$ue 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' he 0ou(" "efinite(' 1e une4p(o'e"# ri3ht8
A. 7e# he cou(" 1e# &er' 0e((. ;here, no pro&iion to 2eep hi4 e4p(o'e".
/. Aut 'ou "on,t 2no0 0hether he 0ou(" h$&e 3one 1$c2 to one of hi e)itin3 pr$ctice8
A. I "on,t 2no0 th$t for ure. I "o 2no0 th$t he i3ne" off thoe pr$ctice.
/. Fe ent $ (etter to hi p$tient $'in3 he 0$ t$2in3 $ (e$&e# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So $ (e$&e i4p(ie th$t 'ou cou(" 1e co4in3 1$c28
A. It, poi1(e.
/. An" preu4$1(' o4e of the p$tient th$t h$" 1een 3oin3 to hi4 $ &er' (on3 ti4e# 4$n' 'e$r#
4i3ht return to hi4 if he c$4e 1$c2 to hi prior pr$ctice# ri3ht8

A. It, poi1(e# 'e.
/. In $n' e&ent# he 0ou(" 1e 1$ic$((' in o4e0h$t the poition he 0$ 1efore he 0ent on the tour#
A. +reu4$1('.
/. An" 'ou tetifie" e$r(ier th$t 'ou thou3ht !r. 99 or Dr. !urr$', $($r' of H150#000 $ 4onth# the
p($nne" $($r'# 0$ e)cei&e(' hi3h# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut 0$n,t p$rt of the pre4iu4# $t (e$t $ccor"in3 to Dr. !urr$'# "ei3ne" to 4iti3$te the effect of
A. I,4 not $0$re of th$t co44unic$tion.
/. So 'ou,re not $0$re of teti4on' 0here Dr. !urr$' to(" !r. Gon3$0$re th$t he nee"e" e)tr$ 4one'
1ec$ue he h$" to 3i&e up hi pr$ctice# $n" th$t 0ou(" 99 th$t 0ou(" 1e $""ition$( cot for hi48
A. I,4 not $0$re of th$t pecific$(('.
/. If 'ou 0ere $0$re of th$t# 0ou(" th$t $(ter 'our opinion in $n' 0$'8
A. No.
/. Jut nothin3 0i(( $(ter 'our opinion in $n' 0$'# ri3ht8
Mr. #loss$ &'ection> ar)umentati3e0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ %ustained.
2he 8itness$ 2hat 8ouldn;t.
Ms. %teins$ &.a!.
/. No0# in or"er to 1e en3$3e" for the tour# the "r$ft contr$ct th$t 0e 0ere =ut (oo2in3 $t reEuire" th$t
Dr. !urr$' h$&e $ (icene to pr$ctice in Lon"on# correct8
A. Correct.
/. No0# I cou("n,t he(p 99 'eter"$' 'ou t$(2e" $1out 0itchin3 (icene fro4 countr' to countr'. An"
'ou,re no0 (icene" to pr$ctice in the %nite" St$te# correct8
A. Correct.
/. -$ th$t $n e$' proce or $ h$r" proce8

A. It 0$ 99 it 0$ 4e"iu4. It 0$n,t re$((' 99 it 0$n,t re$((' h$r".
/. Di" 'ou h$&e to "o o4e p$per0or28
A. 7e.
/. Sho0 proof of 'our 4e"ic$( tr$inin38
A. 7e.
/. Sho0 proof th$t 'ou 0ere (icene" in 3oo" t$n"in3 in c$n$"$8
A. 7e.
/. An'thin3 e(e8
A. I h$" to t$2e $ tet.
/. ;o 4$2e ure th$t 'ou 0ere co4petent to pr$ctice 4e"icine8
A. <i3ht.
/. -h$t e(e8
A. 6i((e" out $ (ot of for4. ;h$t, $(( 99 it 0$ 20 'e$r $3o. ;h$t, 99
/. ;h$t, 0h$t 'ou re4e41er8
A. 7e$h# th$t, 0h$t I re4e41er.
/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t in or"er to pr$ctice in the unite" 2in3"o4# Dr. !urr$' 0ou(" h$&e to 3o
throu3h o4e 2in" of proce8
A. 7e. I,4 ure the',&e ch$n3e"# 1ut 'e.
/. So 'ou "on,t 2no0 the e)$ct proce# 1ut $fe to $' it, $ proce8
A. 7e.
/. 7ou c$n,t =ut hop fro4 countr' to countr' $n" pr$ctice 4e"icine8
A. <i3ht.
/. So 1' reEuirin3 th$t he 1e (icene" in the unite" 2in3"o4# th$t, o4e 4etho" to $fe3u$r" hi
co4petence# ri3ht8 ;o "e4ontr$te th$t Dr. !urr$' i co4petent8
A. 7ou 4e$n the ch$nne( he 0ou(" 3o throu3h to pro&e th$t he, co4petent 0ou(" 1e reEuire" 1'
o4e 1o"' in the %nite" Kin3"o48 7e.

/. E)$ct('. An" the "r$ft $3ree4ent 0ith Dr. !urr$' $(o reEuire" th$t he h$&e 4$(pr$ctice inur$nce#
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t 0$ the reponi1i(it' of hi co4p$n'# GCA Fo("in3# to o1t$in $n" ecure# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, o4ethin3 th$t reponi1(e ph'ici$n 3ener$((' h$&e in p($ce# ri3ht8
A. !$(pr$ctice inur$nce8
/. 7e.
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, $nother $fe3u$r" $3$int profeion$( inco4petence 1ec$ue in or"er to h$&e 4$(pr$ctice
inur$nce iue"# 'ou h$&e to 1e $ re($ti&e(' co4petent ph'ici$n8
A. In or"er to ho(" 4$(pr$ctice inur$nce# 'ou nee" to 1e $ co4petent ph'ici$n8
/. 7e# or 'ou,re 3oin3 to p$' $n outr$3eou pre4iu48
A. If 'ou,&e h$" no pre&iou =u"34ent $3$int 'ou# it, (e e)peni&e th$n if 'ou,&e h$" =u"34ent. I
$u4e o.
/. An" if $t o4e point 'ou 0ere re$((' inco4petent# 'ou 4i3ht not 1e $1(e to fin" 4$(pr$ctice
inur$nce to inure 'ou# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. So th$t, $nother in"ici$ of o4ethin3 e(e th$t 0ou(" "e4ontr$te Dr. !urr$', co4petent# ri3ht8
A. ;h$t he 0$ $1(e to 3et 4$(pr$ctice inur$nce8 I "on,t 2no0 th$t it "oe "e4ontr$te co4petence. It
"e4ontr$te th$t he "oen,t h$&e $n' =u"34ent $3$int hi4.
/. It "e4ontr$te o4e $4ount of reponi1i(it'8
A. 7e.
/. An" he 0ou(" $(o h$&e to 99 he 0ou(" $(o h$&e to t$2e reponi1i(it' in the e&ent he $cte"
ne3(i3ent(' un"er thi contr$ct# ri3ht8
A. ;$2e reponi1i(it' in 0h$t 0$'8
/. +ro&i"e" in"e4nit' for $n' $ct of ne3(i3ence 1' hi4 or hi co4p$n' or peop(e he 0$ uper&iin38

A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, $ i3n# $ 0e((# of 0i((in3ne to t$2e reponi1i(it'8
A. 7e.
/. In other 0or"# if 'ou 0ent in 2no0in3 'ou 0ere 3oin3 to co44it 4$(pr$ctice# 'ou pro1$1('
0ou("n,t pro4ie to 1e reponi1(e for 'our 4$(pr$ctice8
Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ Do !ou understand the 4uestion,
2he 8itness$ ?ot exactl!.
Ms. %teins$ &.a!. * can tr! to clari+! it.
/. ;he point 1ein3 if 'ou $re $ re$(('# re$(('# re$((' 1$" "octor# $n" 'ou 2ne0 'ou 0ere $ re$(('# re$(('#
re$((' 1$" "octor# it pro1$1(' 0ou("n,t 1e in 'our 1et interet to pro&i"e in"e4nit' for 'our 1$"
con"uct# ri3ht8
A. I 3ue 'ou cou(" hope 'ou "i"n,t 3et c$u3ht.
/. So 'ou,re either $ ne$2' "octor or tupi" "octor8
A. 7e$h# or o4e0here in 1et0een.
/. A(( ri3ht. An" then thi "r$ft contr$ct 0e t$(2e" $1out e$r(ier $ctu$((' reEuire" Dr. !urr$' to
$"4initer er&ice profeion$((' un"er the 3re$tet "e3ree of c$re to 1e e)pecte" fro4 i4i($r('
itu$te" 4e41er of the 4e"ic$( fie("# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. So h$" thi $3ree4ent 1een e)ecute" $n" in effect# Dr. !urr$' $"4initerin3 propofo( in hi 99 in
!r. J$c2on, 1e"roo4 $t ni3ht 0ou(" not on(' h$&e 1een unethic$( $n" &io($te" the t$n"$r" of c$re# it
0ou(" h$&e &io($te" thi $3ree4ent8
A. 7e.
/. A(( ri3ht. In,t the re$( pro1(e4 in thi c$e not Dr. !urr$', fee(in3 to0$r" AEG Li&e 1ut the f$ct
th$t he 3$&e in to !ich$e( J$c2on8
A. ;h$t, p$rt of the conf(ict# 'e.
/. Let, turn to the ne)t topic. -e t$(2e" $ (ot 'eter"$' $n" thi 4ornin3 $1out o4e e4$i( in one
0ee2 in June 200D. Do 'ou rec$(( th$t8
A. 7e.

/. An" the firt one# I 1e(ie&e# i June 1Cth@ $n" the ($t one $re $1out June 20th8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou rec$(( th$t8
A. 7e.
/. An" I," (i2e to t$(2 $ (itt(e 1it $1out o4e of thoe e4$i(. 6irt of $((# 0ere 'ou 99 0hen 0ere 'ou
pro&i"e" thoe e4$i(8
A. I 1e(ie&e th$t I firt re$" thee $ p$rt of the K$ren 6$'e "epoition in fe1ru$r'.
/. An" "o 'ou re4e41er 0h$t e(e 'ou re$" $roun" the $4e ti4e $ th$t "epoition8
A. I re$" the +$u( Gon3$0$re "epoition# the <$n"' +hi((ip "epoition# $n" the Ste0$rt 6in2e(tein.
/. An" thee 99 thee e4$i( 0ere prett' 4uch ue" in $(( thoe "epoition# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So 'ou 2ne0 the' 0ere i4port$nt to +($intiff, poition $n" their un"ert$n"in3 of the c$e8
A. 7e.
/. Di" 'ou e&er $2 to ee $(( of the e4$i( correpon"ence in thi perio" 1et0een thee peop(e8
A. No# not pecific$(('.
/. An" 'ou,re not $n' 2in" of e)pert in re$"in3 e4$i(# $re 'ou8
A. I 3et $ (ot of e4$i(.
/. 6$ir enou3h. +erh$p I hou(" $2 the Euetion 4ore pecific$(('. 7ou,re not for4$((' tr$ine" in the
re$"in3 of e4$i(# other th$n 'ou 0ere for4$((' tr$ine" to re$" $t o4e point8
A. I,4 not ure ho0 to $n0er th$t.
/. A p$rt of 'our profeion$( reponi1i(itie $t St$nfor" %ni&erit'# $re 'ou e&er reEuire" to interpret
e4$i( fro4 peop(e 'ou "on,t 2no0 th$t 0ere 0ritten four 'e$r $3o8
A. No.
/. ;h$t, not o4ethin3 th$t, in 'our 0hee(houe8
A. Correct.
/. An" th$t, not o4ethin3 'ou 0ou(" coni"er 'oure(f $n e)pert in8

A. I,&e ne&er thou3ht $1out it.
/. So 'ou 4i3ht 1e $n e)pert in re$"in3 e4$i( 0ritten 1' peop(e 'ou "on,t 2no0 four 'e$r $3o8
A. I cou(" 1e prett' 3oo"# 'e$h. I 4i3ht 1e.
/. Do 'ou thin2 'ou,re 1etter th$n the =ur' $t re$"in3 thoe e4$i(8
A. I "on,t 0$nt to $' th$t.
/. 7ou "on,t 0$nt to $' th$t 1ec$ue 'ou "on,t thin2 th$t# or 99
A. -e((# I,4 not ure. I "o thin2 I,4 prett' 3oo" $t re$"in3 e4$i(. I "o recei&e $ (ot of the4# I rep(' to
$ (ot of the4 on 4' (itt(e phone $(( "$' (on3.
/. Aut 'ou," $3ree th$t the =ur' th$t h$ 1een ittin3 here for 0ee2 i in the 1et poition to e&$(u$te
thee e4$i( $n" their conte)t# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Let, t$(2 $1out e)hi1it GG5# "$h# B0# 0hich I 1e(ie&e i the firt one fro4 'eter"$'. If 'ou 0$nt to
pu(( up the firt e4$i( in thi ch$in# p$4# 0hich i the 1otto4 one. Dr. !$theon# "o 'ou re4e41er
t$(2in3 $1out thi e4$i( 'eter"$'8
A. 7e.
/. 7ou re&ie0e" thi e4$i(# $n" 'ou note" th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" $pp$rent(' he(" !r. J$c2on out of
rehe$r$(# correct8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou interprete" thi e4$i( to 4e$n th$t, $ pro1(e4# Dr. !urr$' hou("n,t 1e ho("in3 peop(e out
of rehe$r$(# ri3ht8
A. No# I 99 I 1e(ie&e th$t, the "octor, ro(e# to 4$2e 4e"ic$( "eciion.
/. <i3ht. 7ou 1e(ie&e th$t Dr. !urr$', ro(e 99 th$t Dr. !urr$' pro1$1(' $cte" proper(' $n" pro1$1('
4$"e $ 3oo" "eciion# 1ut 'ou interprete" thi e4$i( erie $ 1ein3 critic$( of th$t "eciion8
A. 7e.
/. Doe it $' $n'0here in thi e4$i( ch$in th$t Dr. !urr$' hou("n,t h$&e 2ept !r. J$c2on out of
A. Not in thoe e)$ct 0or".
/. In f$ct# "oen,t it $' 5#ithout invading )''s !rivacy, it might be a good idea to talk with his
doctor to make sure everything )' re*uires is in !lace"8

A. 7e$h 99 'e# it $' th$t.
/. An"# in f$ct# on the 99 on the top e4$i( on the ne)t p$3e# it 3oe on to $' th$t Dr. !urr$' 99 not Dr.
!urr$'# 1ut 5)r. 'ackson must take care of himself. #e need a healthy, rested and ready )' at the
+orum and ,ta!les for remaining rehearsals58
A. 7e.
/. I there $n'thin3 in thi e4$i( th$t u33et to 'ou th$t !r. Orte3$ 0$nte" !r. J$c2on to $tten"
rehe$r$( re3$r"(e of 0hether he 0$ he$(th'8
A. No# there, nothin3 th$t $' pecific$((' th$t.
/. In,t the 1etter 99 tron3er i4p(ic$tion th$t he 0$nte" !r. J$c2on to 1e he$(th'8
A. I thin2 the firt i4p(ic$tion i he, preentin3 concern $1out hi he$(th# 0h' i he e&en 99 0h' i he
e&en concerne" $1out hi he$(th $n" en"in3 $n e4$i(. ;here, o4ethin3 he, concerne" $1out.
/. <i3ht. ;h$t 0$n,t 4' Euetion. I thin2 0e c$n $3ree th$t he, e)prein3 concern. !' Euetion i#
in,t he $'in3 5-e 0$nt !r. J$c2on to 1e he$(th'# 0e 0$nt 0h$te&er i 1otherin3 hi4 to 1e tre$te"
$n" 3et 1etter58
A. 7e# I thin2 he 0$nt to 1e he$(th' $n" 1etter# correct.
/. An" 'ou interpret !r. Gon3$0$re, e4$i( in contr$t to !r. Orte3$, to 4e$n 5-e 0$nt hi4 to co4e
to rehe$r$( no 4$tter 0h$t58
A. -h$t !r. Gon3$0$re, e4$i( $'# 5#e want to remind &r. )urray who he works for.5
/. An" 'ou interprete" th$t 'eter"$' to 4e$n# 5-e 0$nt hi4 to top ho("in3 !r. J$c2on out of
A. ;h$t 99
/. <i3ht8
A. 7e# I thin2 th$t, $ 3oo" interpret$tion.
/. Aut th$t, not 0h$t it $ctu$((' $'# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" 'ou re&ie0e" the "epoition teti4on' of !r. Orte3$# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So 'ou 2no0 th$t, not ho0 he un"ertoo" th$t e4$i(8
A. 7e.

/. An" 'ou h$&en,t re&ie0e" the tri$( teti4on' of !r. Gon3$0$re# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. Are 'ou $0$re th$t !r. Gon3$0$re tetifie" he ne&er h$" $n' con&er$tion 0ith Dr. !urr$' 0here
he re4in"e" hi4 0ho 0$ p$'in3 hi $($r'8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou,re $(o $0$re th$t !r. +hi((ip $n" !r. Gon3$0$re h$&e tetifie" th$t there 0$ $ 4eetin3
0ith Dr. !urr$' o4eti4e in the firt h$(f of June th$t t$(2e" $1out !r. J$c2on, nutrition# $1out
4$2in3 ure th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" 0h$t he nee"e" to prep$re !r. J$c2on for the ho08
A. 7e.
/. An" there, nothin3 0ron3 0ith $ concert pro4oter $2in3 $ ph'ici$n# 5Fe'# i there $n'thin3 0e
c$n "o to he(p out85 ri3ht8
A. Not (i2e th$t# no.
/. ;here, nothin3 0ron3 0ith $'in3# 5Do 'ou h$&e e&er'thin3 'ou nee" to 4$2e ure he, he$(th' $n"
t$2en c$re of85
A. <i3ht.
/. ;h$t, fine8
A. ;h$t, fine.
/. It, on(' if 0e interpret thi e4$i( to 4e$n o4ethin3 "ifferent# o4ethin3 4ore nef$riou# th$t
there, $ pro1(e48
A. 7e# if there, inf(uence on "eciion 4$2in3# e)$ct('.
/. Aut# in f$ct# 'ou h$&en,t een $n'thin3 in the recor" to in"ic$te th$t there 0$ $ctu$((' inf(uence 1'
AEG Li&e peronne( on 99 on !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re# ri3ht8
A. ;he Euetion i h$&e I een $n'thin3 pecific8
/. 7e.
A. Jut 0h$t 0e,&e t$(2e" $1out in thee e4$i(.
/. <i3ht. Aut 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 th$t there 0ere e&er con&er$tion 0ith Dr. !urr$' th$t
in&o(&e" AEG Li&e inf(uencin3 Dr. !urr$', 4e"ic$( c$re 99 !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. I "on,t 2no0 the e)$ct content of thoe 4eetin3# correct.

/. Aut there, nothin3 in the recor" to in"ic$te pecific$((' th$t the' h$" $n' 4e"ic$( inf(uence o&er Dr.
A. Nothin3 th$t I c$n rec$((.
/. 7ou,re =ut $u4in3 th$t h$ppene"8
A. Au4in3 0h$t8 Sorr'.
/. Au4in3 there 0$ o4e 2in" of inf(uence8
A. 7e.
/. -ithout $n' 1$i in the recor"8
A. Jut 0h$t thee e4$i( $i".
/. So =ut 1$e" on thee e4$i(# th$t, 'our on(' 1$i8
A. No# th$t, not 4' on(' 1$i. ;here 0ere phone c$((# there 0ere 4eetin3# there 0ere e4$i(# there
0$ the e)preion of concern.
/. Aut the phone c$(( $n" the 4eetin3# 'ou =ut to(" 4e 'ou h$&e no re$on 99 no e&i"ence th$t $n'
2in" of unto0$r" con&er$tion too2 p($ce there.
A. ;here, nothin3 in the recor" th$t h$ pecific. I 1e(ie&e o4e of the peop(e in the 4eetin3 "on,t
re4e41er the 4eetin3.
/. -e,(( 3et to th$t. Aut nothin3 4ore th$t 'ou c$n te(( 4e ri3ht no08
A. Correct.
/. It, 1$e" princip$((' on the e4$i(8
A. +rincip$(('# 'e.
/. Let, (oo2 $t the ne)t one# 0hich i e)hi1it 2:C# "$h# 1. An" if 'ou c$n >oo4 in on the 1otto4 e4$i(
there# I thin2. Or it $ctu$((' 4i3ht 1e the top one. 7e# thi one. Do 'ou rec$(( t$(2in3 $1out thi e4$i(
'eter"$'# Dr. !$theon8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou t$(2e" $1out the f$ct th$t !r. +hi((ip "ecri1e" the 4eetin3 th$t 'ou c$((e" $n inter&ention
0ith Dr. !urr$'8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou foun" th$t i3nific$nt8

A. 7e.
/. I 0$nt to $2 'ou $1out the 0$' Dr. !urr$' i referre" to in thi e4$i(.
A. O2$'.
/. -h$t "oe !r. +hi((ip c$(( hi4 here8
A. Let 4e =ut re$" it for $ 4inute.
/. %h9huh.
A. I,4 not ure I 99 I 2no0 99 I c$n ee in there 0h$t he, c$((in3 Dr. !urr$'.
/. Do 'ou ee $n' reference to Dr. !urr$' in thi e4$i(8
A. 5His doctor named -onrad from .egas#5 'e.
/. So 5Fi "octor n$4e" Conr$" fro4 Ve3$#5 'ou 1e(ie&e i Dr. !urr$'8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t 0ou(" 1e !r. J$c2on, "octor n$4e" Conr$" fro4 Ve3$8
A. Conr$" !urr$'# 'e.
/. Doe th$t phr$in3 oun" (i2e# to 'ou# o4eone 0ho 2no0 Dr. !urr$' 0e((8
A. Fe ue hi firt n$4e.
/. ;rue# 1ut he $(o refer to hi4 $ "octor fro4 Ve3$# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Fe "oen,t refer to hi4 in the 0$' th$t he "oe Gon3$0$re $n" Di(eo# o4eone he, f$4i(i$r 0ith
$n" "oen,t nee" $n' e)p($n$tion8
A. I 99 I,4 orr'. I "on,t un"ert$n" 0h$t 'ou,re $'in3.
/. Fe "oen,t refer to hi4 $ !urr$' or Conr$" 0ithout o4e other $""ition$( e)p($n$tion# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht# correct.
/. An" he "oen,t $' 5Our tour "octor# Conr$" !urr$'58
A. No# he "oen,t.
/. Fe "oen,t $' 5!' e4p(o'ee# Conr$" !urr$'58

A. No.
/. Fe "oen,t $'# 'ou 2no0# 5;he "octor I hire" to t$2e c$re of !ich$e(# Conr$" !urr$'58
A. No# he "oen,t.
/. Fe $' J$c2on, 5Doctor n$4e" Conr$" fro4 Ve3$58
A. 7e.
/. An" it, 'our un"ert$n"in3# in,t it# th$t !r. J$c2on (i&e" in L$ Ve3$ 1efore 4o&in3 to Lo
A. 7e.
/. Let, 3o on to the 5trou1(e $t the 6ront5 ch$in. It, e)hi1it 30:# i the firt one# I thin2. -e t$(2e" $
(ot $1out thi ch$in# $n" I "on,t 0$nt to 1e($1or the point 1ec$ue the =ur' h$ he$r" $ (ot $1out thi
ch$in# 1ut I h$&e $ coup(e of Euetion for 'ou.
A. 7e.
/. An" (et, t$rt =ut 3ener$(('. 7ou 0ou(" $3ree th$t in thi correpon"ence# the tour 4$n$3er# !r.
Fou3"$h(# $n" tour "irector# !r. Orte3$# r$ie" concern $1out !r. J$c2on, he$(th $n" $ rehe$r$( on
June 1Dth# 200D# correct8
A. 7e.
/. ;h$t on th$t ni3ht# !r. J$c2on $ppe$r Euite i((8
A. 7e.
/. Aut $(o p'cho(o3ic$((' out of ort8
A. 7e.
/. Chi((e"8
A. ;h$t, not p'cho(o3ic$(.
/. <i3ht. ;h$t, the ph'ic$( i"e8
A. <i3ht.
/. ;h$t, re$((' the on(' ph'ic$( '4pto4# 2in" of 0e$2 $n" chi((e"# ri3ht8
A. -h$t p$rt $re 0e (oo2in3 $t here8
/. An' '4pto4 in the 0ho(e ch$in.

A. Di" 'ou $' th$t, the on(' ph'io(o3ic$(8
/. <i3ht. I 4e$n $i"e fro4 1ein3 thin.
A. Chi((# tre41(in3# 'e. ;h$t, 99 "epen" on 0hich e4$i(# I thin2# 1ut 99
/. In 3ener$(# it, chi(( $n" tre41(in38
A. 7e.
/. An" then there, $(o p'cho(o3ic$( '4pto4 of 1ein3 r$41(in3 $n" p$r$noi" $n" thin3 of th$t
A. 7e.
/. So &er' concernin3# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut not o4ethin3 $ ($'peron 0ou(" 1e nee"e" to fi3ure out the c$ue of# ri3ht8
A. 7ou 4e$n the "i$3noi8
/. <i3ht. If 'ou 0ere u""en(' r$41(in3 $n" f$ti3ue" $n" chi((e"# I 0ou("n,t 1e $1(e to te(( 0h$t 0$
0ron3 0ith 'ou# not 1ein3 $ ph'ici$n8
A. <i3ht.
/. An"# in f$ct# the e4$i( ch$in in"ic$te th$t no1o"' re$((' 2ne0 0h$t 0$ 0ron3 0ith !r. J$c2on
th$t ni3ht# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. No0# 'eter"$' 'ou cite" !r. +hi((ip, initi$( e4$i(# $n" th$t, in the 4i""(e of p$3e 99 on the ri3ht9
h$n" i"e. 7ou cite" thi e4$i( $ $n in$"eEu$te repone. An" =ut for the recor"# thi i the June 20th
$t G?5B $4 e4$i(.
A. 7e.
/. ;hi i =ut $n intern$( e4$i(# ri3ht8
A. -h$t "oe 5intern$(5 4e$n8
/. It, on(' 1et0een the tour "irector $n" !r. +hi((ip8
A. Intern$( 0ithin AEG8 Oh# $re 'ou $2in3 4e 0ho it, $""ree" to8
/. I,4 $2in3 if thi ch$in i intern$( 0ithin the tour &eru 99 it, not ent to Dr. !urr$' or !r.

A. Correct.
/. ;h$t, the point I 0$ tr'in3 to 3et to.
A. Sorr'. Correct.
/. An" it, ent $t G?5B in the 4ornin3# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" I 3ue I 0$ =ut 0on"erin3 0h$t 0ou(" 'ou h$&e 99 0h$t 0ou(" 1e $n $ppropri$te repone# in
'our &ie0# to 99 0hen $ concert pro4oter he$r fro4 $ tour "irector th$t o4eone i ic2 $t rehe$r$(8
A. I thin2 $n $ppropri$te repone i to 4$2e ure 'ou h$&e the ri3ht 4e"ic$( peop(e in p($ce to fi3ure
out the "i$3noi or 3et the4 in p($ce.
/. So 'ou thin2 it, the concert pro4oter, =o1 to "ict$te !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. Fe, the one 0ho i recei&in3 the infor4$tion.
/. <i3ht. Aut preu4$1(' !r. J$c2on 0ent ho4e to hi ph'ici$n# ri3ht8
A. ;here, no recor" of th$t. A 'ou $i"# he "oen,t 2eep recor".
/. Aut !r. Orte3$, e4$i( in"ic$te th$t he 0$ c$((in3 Dr. !urr$' th$t ni3ht# ri3ht8
A. 7e. ;he point i !r. 99 !r. +hi((ip 3et thi# $n" o he cou(" repon".
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e 1' recei&in3 $n e4$i( "ecri1in3 o4eone 1ein3 i((# 'ou h$&e $n o1(i3$tion to h$u( in
$ 4e"ic$( te$4 to fi3ure out 0h$t, 0ron3 0ith the peron8
A. Not =ut o4eone# the t$r of 'our ho0.
/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t $ concert pro4oter h$ the $1i(it' to contro( the 4e"ic$( c$re of $n
$rtit 0ho i perfor4in38
A. No.
/. I,4 $2in3 1ec$ue# 'ou 2no0# 0e,&e t$(2e" $ (ot $1out te$4 "octor@ $n" in th$t int$nce# the te$4
"oe h$&e $ cert$in $4ount of contro( o&er the p($'er# ri3ht8
A. -hether the' p($' or not# 'e.
/. <i3ht. An" the te$4 c$n $ctu$((' te(( the p($'er# 'ou 2no0# 5'ou nee" to 3et thi in=ur' chec2e" out
1' $ "octor#5 ri3ht8
A. 7e# the' c$n.

/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t $ concert pro"ucer or pro4oter h$ th$t $4e $1i(it' 0ith $n $rtit8
A. ;he' 99 the' cert$in(' h$&e the opportunit'# 'e.
/. ;h$t, 99 the' h$&e the opportunit' to u33et# 1ut the' c$n,t $ctu$((' or"er o4eone in the 0$' $
te$4 cou("# ri3ht8
A. ;he' cou(". ;he' cou(" $'# 5-e 0$nt th$t chec2e" out 1efore 'ou co4e 1$c2 $n" p$rticip$te in
rehe$r$(.5 ;h$t, 0h$t 0e "o in port 4e"icine.
/. <i3ht. An" th$t, 99 th$t, 0h' I,4 h$&in3 o4e trou1(e 0ith thi 4et$phor 1ec$ue in port
4e"icine# 'ou h$&e thee c(e$r9cut ro(e $n" 'ou $ctu$((' h$&e the ri3ht to "o th$t# ri3ht8
A. !r. +hi((ip h$ th$t $4e ri3ht.
/. 7ou thin2 th$t !r. +hi((ip h$ the ri3ht to te(( !r. J$c2on# 57ou c$n,t rehe$re un(e 'ou ee $
"octor of 4' chooin358
A. A1o(ute('.
/. Do 'ou 2no0 99 0h$t, 'our 1$i for th$t8
A. Fe h$ the ri3ht to $'# 5I,4 concerne" $1out 'our he$(th# !r. J$c2on. I 0$nt 'ou to 3et thi
chec2e" out 1efore 'ou co4e 1$c2 to rehe$r$(.5
/. An" if !r. J$c2on $' no8
A. ;hen I thin2 it 1eco4e $ "icuion# 1ut $t (e$t th$t tep nee" to 1e t$2en.
/. An" if !r. J$c2on, "octor $' he, o2$' to rehe$re# it, 'our opinion th$t !r. +hi((ip hou("
o&erri"e th$t 4e"ic$( "eciion8
A. ;he f$ct i thee $re occurrin3 in the preence of !r. J$c2on, "octor# Conr$" !urr$'.
/. O2$'. It, 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t "r. !urr$' 0$ $t rehe$r$( on the 1Dth8
A. I "on,t 4e$n the ph'ic$( preence# I 4e$n $t the $4e ti4e th$t he h$ $ "octor# he, 1ein3 1rou3ht
into the fo("# $ccor"in3 to Kenn' Orte3$# $n" it ti(( "oen,t ee4 to 1e o(&in3 the pro1(e4# o he h$ $
ri3ht# 'e# to u33et $n $(tern$te $ppro$ch.
/. I "on,t un"ert$n" 0h$t the 5ri3ht to u33et5 4e$n. Are 'ou $'in3 th$t AEG Li&e cou(" for3et $((
of it contr$ctu$( o1(i3$tion to !r. J$c2on $n" $'# 5un(e 'ou 3o to $ "octor# I,4 not (ettin3 'ou
1$c2 into rehe$r$(58
A. ;he' cou(" $'# 5-e 0$nt 'ou to ee $ "octor 1efore 'ou co4e 1$c2#5 'e. ;h$t, the 1e3innin3 of
the "icuion# $n" I "on,t 99 I cou(" pecu($te ho0 it 0ou(" 3o# 1ut th$t "icuion cou(" t$2e p($ce.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 of 0hether $ concert pro4oter or pro"ucer cuto4$ri(' h$ the
$1i(it' to contro( $n $rtit, 4e"ic$( c$re8

A. -e((# I thin2 th$t, 0h$t 'ou $2e" 1efore. I thin2 the $n0er i ti(( no.
/. An" i it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t one peron in $ 1uine re($tionhip 0ith $nother peron c$n force
th$t peron to 99 the firt peron to ee o4eone other th$n their o0n ph'ici$n of their chooin38
A. I,4 not u33etin3 th$t he force $n'thin3. I,4 u33etin3 he cre$te the opportunit'.
/. Cre$te the opportunit' to ee $nother ph'ici$n8
A. Correct.
/. An" 0h$t 1$i $t thi point "o 'ou h$&e to 1e(ie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' i not $ ph'ici$n 0ho cou("# $t
(e$t in the firt int$nce# (oo2 $t !r. J$c2on8
A. Aec$ue thee '4pto4 $ 0e(( $ other of "ec(inin3 he$(th $re t$2in3 p($ce $t the $4e ti4e th$t
Dr. !urr$' i hi ph'ici$n.
/. So if o4eone i ic2 $n" the',re not 3ettin3 1etter# th$t 4e$n their "octor i upect8
A. It "epen" on the peron. If the peron 0$ he$(th' to 1e3in 0ith# it r$ie the iue. A(o# !r.
+hi((ip h$ in"ic$te" he, not ure he, the ri3ht "octor.
/. Fe "oen,t in"ic$te th$t in thi e4$i(.
A. Correct.
/. I 3ue 4' Euetion i# 0e t$(2e" e$r(ier $1out the i"e$ of $ pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n $n" 99 the
pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n# then 'ou ee $ peci$(it# ri3ht8 <efer to peci$(it8
A. Correct.
/. So 0ou("n,t it 1e re$on$1(e 99 ettin3 $i"e thi c$e# in 3ener$(# 0ou("n,t 1e re$on$1(e for
o4eone 0ho i i(( to 3o firt to their pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n# 3et the pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n,
e&$(u$tion# $n" then ee $ peci$(it if reco44en"e" 1' the pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n8
A. -e((# in thi int$nce# the pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n# Dr. !urr$'# i conf(icte" $n" he h$ no c(inic to 3o
to other th$n to !r. J$c2on, 1e"roo4.
/. <i3ht. I $2e" 'ou to et $i"e thi int$nce. I,4 $'in3 in 3ener$(# outi"e of thi c$e# if o4eone i
ic2# "on,t the' uu$((' 3o firt to their pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n8
A. 7e# or the e4er3enc' "ep$rt4ent# o4ethin3 (i2e th$t.
/. <i3ht. An" !r. J$c2on h$" other ph'ici$n he cou(" 3o to# ri3ht8
A. ;h$t he cou(" 3o to8 7e.
/. In f$ct# he h$" $t (e$t 99 he $0 $t (e$t i) other ph'ici$n in the prin3 of 200D8

A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 th$t AEG Li&e 0$ co4preheni&e(' 4$n$3in3 !r. J$c2on,
4e"ic$( c$re# ri3ht8
A. I "on,t thin2 the' h$" the $1i(it' to.
/. An" 'ou "on,t thin2 th$t the' 0ere# "o 'ou8
A. I thin2 the' 0ere tr'in3 to contro( o4e $pect@ 1ut no# I "on,t thin2 the' h$" the $1i(it' to.
/. So 'ou thin2 the' 0ere tr'in3 to contro(# 1$e" on the e4$i( 0e,&e $(re$"' "icue"8
A. 7e.
/. An" p$r$3r$ph C.18
A. 7e.
/. Aut 'ou "on,t thin2 the' 0ere $ctu$((' 4$n$3in3 e&er' "octor !r. J$c2on $08
A. No.
/. In f$ct# 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' re$on to 1e(ie&e the' e&en 2ne0 $1out 4ot of !r. J$c2on, other
"octor# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. So it, 'our opinion th$t the $ppropri$te thin3 for $ concert pro4oter to "o 0hen $n $rtit i ic2 i to
inter&ene in their 4e"ic$( c$re $n" hire $n outi"e te$4 of "octor8
A. I "i"n,t $' inter&ene or hire# I $i" cre$te $n opportunit' for $n $(tern$te opinion. If the' h$" =ut
t$2en hi4 to the e4er3enc' "ep$rt4ent# for e)$4p(e# th$t 0ou(" 1e $nother et of e'e# o4e tet#
o4eone e(e (oo2in3 $t it. 7e# th$t, poi1(e.
/. It, not poi1(e to t$2e o4eone to the e4er3enc' "ep$rt4ent 0ho "oen,t 0$nt to 3o there# thou3h#
un(e the',re unconciou# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. So !r. J$c2on 0ou(" h$&e h$" to chooe to ee $n $(tern$te pro&i"er8
A. 7e# he 0ou(" h$&e to $3ree 0ith th$t.
/. An"# in f$ct# in thi $4e ti4e perio"# $nother one of !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( pro&i"er u33ete" th$t
he 3o to the e4er3enc' roo4 $n" he f($t9out refue"# ri3ht8
A. !r. J$c2on refue"8

/. 7e.
A. I "on,t rec$(( th$t.
/. 7ou "on,t rec$(( !. Lee tetif'in3 th$t he to(" !r. J$c2on# 57ou hou(" 3o ri3ht $0$' to $n
e4er3enc' roo45 0hen he "ecri1e" '4pto4 to her# $n" he "i"n,t 3o8
A. 7e# I "o rec$(( th$t.
/. O2$'. An" !r. J$c2on 0$ o4eone 0ho 0$ &er' pri&$te 0ith hi 4e"ic$( c$re# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Fe h$" $ (on3 hitor' of pre intruion# for ($c2 of $ 1etter 0or"# into hi 4e"ic$( circu4t$nce8
A. 7e.
/. An" there h$&e 1een iue 0ith hopit$( (e$2in3 p$tient infor4$tion# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So it, 'our un"ert$n"in3# in,t it# th$t !r. J$c2on 0ou(" 1e o4e0h$t re(uct$nt to 3o to the
A. Cou(" 1e# 'e.
/. Let, t$(2 $1out $nother e4$i( in th$t ch$in. An" th$t, e)hi1it 99 th$t, the one fro4 99 0e t$(2e"
$1out it 'eter"$' $n" thi 4ornin3# fro4 !r. +hi((ip to !r. Orte3$. Do 'ou rec$(( thi e4$i(# Dr.
A. 7e# I "o.
/. An" 'ou $i" $ coup(e of thin3 thi 4ornin3 I 0$nt to Euetion $1out. 6irt off# 0ou(" 'ou $3ree
th$t# in 3ener$(# it, $ 3oo" i"e$ for ($'peop(e not to 1eco4e $4$teur ph'ici$n $n" p'chi$trit# 1ut
to re(' on profeion$(8
A. I "on,t un"ert$n" th$t Euetion 1ec$ue to 1eco4e $ ph'ici$n# 'ou nee" to 3o to choo( for ei3ht
/. <i3ht. So it 0ou(" 1e $ 1$" i"e$ for 4e to $tte4pt to "i$3noe $ con"ition 0ithout 3oin3 to 4e"ic$(
choo(# ri3ht8
A. ;o 4$2e $ "i$3noi# 'e.
/. ;h$t 0ou(" 1e not $ 3oo" i"e$8
A. -e((# I "on,t 99 I "on,t thin2 'ou cou("# pro1$1('@ 1ut# 'e$h# e)$ct('.

/. It 0ou(" 1e 1$" 99
A. 7ou cou(" report '4pto4.
/. It 0ou(" 1e 1$" for 4e to $'# 5I 2no0 0h$t, 3oin3 on 1ec$ue I,&e een '4pto4 (i2e thi
1efore#5 ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. ;h$t hou(" 1e (eft to $ profeion$( 0ho h$ the 2i(( $n" e)pertie to 4$2e th$t c$((8
A. 7e.
/. An" then it $' 99 it t$(2 $1out $ te(ephone con&er$tion 1et0een Dr. !urr$' $n" !r. +hi((ip#
A. 7e.
/. 7ou tetifie" thi 4ornin3 th$t 'ou thou3ht it 0$ in$ppropri$te for $ ph'ici$n to t$(2 0ith $nother
t$2eho("er in&o(&e" in $ concert pro"uction# ri3ht8
A. Another t$2eho("er8 I $i" ph'ici$n# I thin2.
/. I thin2 'ou $i" it 0$ in$ppropri$te for !r. +hi((ip $n" Dr. !urr$' to h$&e $ phone con&er$tion.
A. 7e.
/. Aut# in f$ct# in 'our return9to9p($' pu1(ic$tion# 'ou reco44en" th$t ph'ici$n 3et input $n" 99 $n"
3i&e input to the co$ch# the te$4# the p($'er# $n" e&er'one in&o(&e"# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So it, not the 4ere f$ct of $ con&er$tion th$t, $ pro1(e4# ri3ht8
A. It "epen" on 0h$t, "icue" in the con&er$tion# it "epen" on 0hether it, $ conf(ict9of9interet
en&iron4ent $n" o forth.
/. So $u4in3 it, not $ conf(ict9of9interet en&iron4ent# i there $n' pro1(e4 99 0e((# (et, 3i&e $
h'pothetic$( o it, c(e$r. Let, $' Dr. !urr$' 0$ =ut one of !r. J$c2on, 4$n' tre$tin3 ph'ici$n in
Lo An3e(e. O2$'8 No $3ree4ent 0h$toe&er 0ith $n'1o"'# no conte4p($te" $3ree4ent 0ith AEG
Li&e# he, not 3oin3 on tour# he, =ut $ ph'ici$n in Lo An3e(e.
A. 7e.
/. An" !r. J$c2on e)hi1it thee trou1(in3 '4pto4 on June 1Dth. I there $n' pro1(e4 $t th$t point
0ith Dr. !urr$' $n" !r. +hi((ip h$&in3 $ con&er$tion8
A. ;here cou(" 1e. ;he con&er$tion th$t $re $ppropri$te $re 3ener$( con&er$tion $1out he$(thc$re
$n" po(ic'# $ oppoe" to pecific 4e"ic$( con"ition 0ith $n in"i&i"u$( p$tient.

/. <i3ht. It 0ou(" 1e in$ppropri$te for Dr. !urr$' to "ecri1e the "et$i( of hi 99 of hi tre$t4ent of
!r. J$c2on# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut it 0ou(" not 1e in$ppropri$te for !r. +hi((ip to re($' the '4pto4 th$t he h$" een 99 or he$r"#
r$ther# th$t !r. J$c2on h$"8
A. A $ ($' ph'ici$n8
/. A $ ($'peron.
A. A $ ($'peron8 No. I thin2 th$t, 0h$t e&er'1o"' i "oin3# i tr'in3 to 3et th$t infor4$tion out.
/. <i3ht. An" it, $ppropri$te to te(( $ peron, "octor $1out the '4pto4 the',&e 1een o1er&in3#
A. 7e# it i.
/. So inof$r $ the con&er$tion in&o(&e" "ecription of !r. J$c2on, '4pto4# there, no pro1(e4#
A. Inof$r# 'e.
/. An" 'ou,re $0$re th$t Dr. !urr$' $ctu$((' c$((e" !r. +hi((ip# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. ;he phone recor" ho0 th$t8
A. I "i"n,t 3o o&er the phone recor".
/. Aut 'ou $re $0$re th$t th$t 0$ the c$e8
A. 7e.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 $ to 0hether or not Dr. !urr$' 0$ $uthori>e" 1' !r. J$c2on
to 4$2e th$t c$((8
A. I "on,t h$&e $n un"ert$n"in3.
/. An" if !r. J$c2on pecific$((' to(" Dr. !urr$' to c$(( !r. +hi((ip# th$t 0ou(" 1e fine# ri3ht8
A. 7ou 4e$n he $uthori>e Dr. !urr$' to pe$2 0ith !r. +hi((ip8 7e.
/. In other 0or"# to t$(2 $1out 99 for !r. +hi((ip to te(( Dr. !urr$' 0h$t he $0 or he$r" or $n'thin3#
there, no iue# there 99 no1o"', per4iion i nee"e" for th$t@ 1ut for Dr. !urr$' to t$(2 $1out !r.
J$c2on, tre$t4ent in $n'thin3 other th$n 3ener$( ter4# he 0ou(" nee" !r. J$c2on, per4iion#

A. 7e.
/. An" (et, (oo2 $t thi e4$i(. ;here, nothin3 in thi e4$i( th$t "ecri1e Dr. !urr$', tre$t4ent of
!r. J$c2on# i there8
A. -e((# there, the 3ener$( co44ent in the 4i""(e of the firt p$r$3r$ph th$t 99 th$t $' th$t Dr.
!urr$' h$ $i" th$t "icour$3in3 hi4# !r. J$c2on# to p$rticip$te 0i(( h$ten hi "ec(ine inte$" of
toppin3 it@ o it "oe 3i&e $n in"ic$tion of 0h$t hi reco44en"$tion 99
/. <eco44en"$tion &i9$9&i $ concert tour 99 ri3ht8 99 1ut not hi tre$t4ent of !r. J$c2on8
A. <eco44en"$tion re3$r"in3 p$rticip$tion in rehe$r$(.
/. <i3ht. So to t$2e 'our return9to9p($' $n$('i# the ph'ici$n co4e 1$c2 $n" $'# 'ou 2no0# 5here,
0h$t I reco44en" to the co$ch#5 th$t, $ccept$1(e# ri3ht8
A. 5Fere, 0h$t I reco44en" to the co$ch58
/. 5Fere, 0h$t I reco44en" in ter4 of 0h$t 0i(( $33r$&$te the p$tient, con"ition $n" he(p the
p$tient, con"ition.5
A. -e "on,t ten" to co44unic$te th$t 0ith co$che.
/. If $ peron i 3oin3 1$c2 to p($'# "o 'ou e&er en" the4 1$c2 0ith $ "octor, note $'in3# 5he'# "on,t
h$&e the4 "o thi or th$t58
A. -e 99 0e co44unic$te th$t to the ph'ic$( ther$pit or the $th(etic tr$iner# 1ut 99 0e "o 3i&e report
to the co$ch# 1ut the',re f$ir(' (i4ite" in cope.
/. <i3ht. An" thi i (i4ite" in cope# ri3ht8 It, =ut $ t$te4ent th$t "icour$3in3 hi4 to perfor4 0i((
4$2e hi4 0ore8
A. <i3ht.
/. It, not o4e "et$i(e"# pecific $n$('i of e)$ct(' 0h$t, 0ron3 0ith !r. J$c2on or 0h$t tre$t4ent
Dr. !urr$' h$ 3i&en# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. An"# in f$ct# 'ou h$&e no re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t thi c$(( in&o(&e" $n' of thee "et$i(e"# pecific
A. I h$&e no 2no0(e"3e either 0$'.
/. Aut nothin3 i reference" in thi e4$i(8
A. Correct.

/. An" 99 no0# 'ou h$&e $(o t$(2e" $1out the i"e$ th$t it 0$ co4p(ete(' unre$on$1(e to 99 for $n'one
to 1e(ie&e th$t "icour$3in3 !r. J$c2on to perfor4 0ou(" 4$2e hi4 0ore r$ther th$n 1etter# ri3ht8
A. It 0$ unre$on$1(e to 99 cou(" 'ou $' th$t $3$in8
/. 6or $n'one to 1e(ie&e th$t "icour$3in3 !r. J$c2on fro4 perfor4in3 0ou(" 4$2e hi4 0ore r$ther
th$n 1etter# ri3ht8
Mr. Panish$ "hat;s the 4uestion,
2he 8itness$ "hat is 77 8hat;s the 4uestion,
/. I th$t 'our 99 i it 'our opinion 99 i thou3ht 'ou $i" 'eter"$'# o correct 4e if I,4 0ron3# th$t it
0$ unre$on$1(e for $n'one to 1e(ie&e $ "octor, t$te4ent th$t "icour$3in3 !r. J$c2on to perfor4
0ou(" 4$2e hi4 0ore r$ther th$n 1etter.
A. 7e# I thin2 th$t i unre$on$1(e.
/. 7ou =ut "on,t thin2 $n'one 99 th$t 'ou cou(" poi1(' trut $ "octor if the' $i" th$t8
A. I thin2 th$t th$t 0ou(" $1o(ute(' r$ie Euetion in 4' 4in".
/. Doctor $re 3ener$((' e)pert in thi $re$# ri3ht8
A. In return to p$rticip$tion8
/. In he$(thc$re# 0h$t, 1et for their p$tient.
A. I Dr. !urr$' $n e)pert here returnin3 !r. J$c2on to p$rticip$tion in $ rehe$r$(8
/. ;he Euetion i# $re "octor 3ener$((' the e)pert in 0h$t, 1et for their p$tient8
A. ;here, &$r'in3 (e&e( of e)pertie. ;he' h$&e 4ore e)pertie th$n $ ($'peron# 'e.
/. A 1et0een $ "octor $n" $ ($'peron# 'ou 0ou(" 3ener$((' trut the "octor, =u"34ent8
A. 7e.
/. An" the e4$i( in thi ch$in $ctu$((' reference $ (ot of iue 0ith !r. J$c2on 0here encour$3in3
hi4 to perfor4 cou(" $ctu$((' he(p# ri3ht8 Let 4e 3i&e 'ou o4e e)$4p(e o it 0i(( 1e o4e0h$t c(e$r
$ to 0h$t I,4 3ettin3 $t.
A. 7e.
/. 6or int$nce# if !r. J$c2on, '4pto4 0ere c$ue"# $ o4e peop(e 1e(ie&e" $t the ti4e the' 0ere
c$ue" 1' e&ere t$3e fri3ht 1ec$ue he 0$ $fr$i" hi f$n 0ou("n,t 0$nt to ee hi4 $n'4ore# in thoe
int$nce# rehe$rin3 $n" prep$rin3 for the ho0 4i3ht $ctu$((' i4pro&e hi t$te r$ther th$n 4$2e it
0ore# ri3ht8

A. 7e.
/. An" if !r. J$c2on 0$ 1$"(' out of h$pe 1ec$ue he h$"n,t 1een 0or2in3 out enou3h# he h$"n,t
1een con"itionin3 enou3h to prep$re for the tour# in th$t int$nce# continuin3 to 0or2 out $n" prep$re
for the tour 0ou(" 4$2e hi4 1etter r$ther th$n 0ore# too# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" if the pro1(e4 0$ c$ue" 1ec$ue !r. J$c2on 0$ e&ere(' tree" out $1out "oin3 the tour#
4i3ht it 1e poi1(e th$t he 0ou(" 1e 4ore tree" out $1out the i"e$ of it 1ein3 c$nce((e"8
A. I thin2 'ou h$&e to (iten to the $rtit in th$t int$nce.
/. 7ou h$&e to (iten to the $rtit8
A I thin2 the' 2no0 their 1o"' 0e((# $n" 99 'e.
/. An"# in f$ct# th$t, e)$ct(' 0h$t h$ppene"# in,t it8 ;here 0$ $ 4eetin3 =ut $ fe0 hour $fter thi
e4$i( 0ith !r. J$c2on $n" Dr. !urr$' $n" !r. Orte3$ $n" !r. +hi((ip# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, $ppropri$te# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. ;o h$&e $ 4eetin3 0ith $ ph'ici$n $n" tr' to 3et 99 tr' to fin" out 0h$t# if $n'thin3# the tour nee"
to "o to $cco44o"$te the p$tient, nee"8
A. I thin2 it, 99 it, unuu$( to h$&e $ 4eetin3 (i2e th$t 1ec$ue it in"ic$te the' "on,t 2no0 0h$t,
3oin3 on.
/. Aut 'ou,&e =ut to(" 4e th$t there, no 0$' $ ($'peron c$n fi3ure out fro4 the '4pto4 on June
1Dth 0h$t 0$ 0ron3 0ith !r. J$c2on.
A. -h' i th$t their ro(e to fi3ure out8
/. ;h$t, 4' Euetion. <i3ht8 Aut it i their ro(e# in,t it# $ 'ou $i"# to fi3ure out 0hether or not !r.
J$c2on i c$p$1(e of rehe$rin3# ri3ht8
A. 7e# ph'ic$(('# 4ent$(('# 'e.
/. Aec$ue the' 0ou("n,t 0$nt to put hi4 in $ rehe$r$( itu$tion if he 0$n,t $1(e to rehe$re8
A. Correct.
/. So it 0ou(" 4$2e ene $t th$t point to h$&e $ 4eetin3 $n" $'# 5he'# c$n !r. J$c2on rehe$re or
c$n,t he85 ri3ht8

A. If th$t, 0h$t, $2e"# 'e.
/. An" h$&e 'ou re$" !r. Orte3$, teti4on' $1out th$t 4eetin38
A. 7e# I "i".
/. -hen8 7ou 0ere 2in" of heit$nt on th$t.
A. A (on3 ti4e $3o# 1ut I "i" re$" it.
/. An" "i" 'ou re$" !r. +hi((ip, tri$( teti4on' $1out th$t 4eetin38 -$ th$t in the three "$', 0orth
'ou re$"8
A. No# it 0$n,t.
/. So 'ou h$&en,t h$" $n opportunit' to re$" $1out th$t 4eetin3 recent('# ri3ht8
A correct.
/. Do 'ou rec$((
A. Dicuion $t the 4eetin3 $1out 99 tri2e th$t Euetion. I (ot it 4i"0$' throu3h. 7ou t$(2e" e$r(ier
$1out the 4eetin3# $n" 'ou $i" th$t 'ou 0ere concerne" 1ec$ue Dr. !urr$' "i"n,t i"entif' $ "i$3noi
$ to 0h$t 0$ 0ron3 0ith !r. J$c2on# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut e&en if Dr. !urr$' h$" $ "i$3noi for !r. J$c2on# he cou("n,t "ic(oe th$t to !r. Orte3$ or
!r. +hi((ip 0ithout !r. J$c2on, per4iion# ri3ht8
A. ;he "i$3noi8
/. <i3ht.
A. Correct.
/. Fe 0ou(" h$&e to 2eep th$t confi"enti$( 1ec$ue of "octorIp$tient confi"enti$(it'8
A. 7e.
/. Aut 0h$t Dr. !urr$' cou(" "o 0$ te(( !r. Orte3$ $n" !r. +hi((ip 0hether or not !r. J$c2on 0$
to 1e rehe$rin3# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 0h$t# if $n'thin3# the' hou(" 1e "oin3 "ifferent(' in ter4 of !r. J$c2on, rehe$r$( che"u(e8

A. 7e.
/. So# in other 0or"# the "octor cou(" 3i&e intruction to e&er'one e(e $ to ho0 1et to 4$n$3e !r.
J$c2on, itu$tion# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut he cou("n,t "icu e)$ct(' 0h$t 0$ 0ron3 0ith !r. J$c2on 0ithout !r. J$c2on, per4iion8
A. 7e.
/. An" he cou("n,t "icu ho0 he 0$ tre$tin3 !r. J$c2on 0ithout !r. J$c2on, per4iion8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou,re $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t $t thi 4eetin3# $ccor"in3 to the teti4on' of !r. Orte3$ $n" !r.
+hi((ip# Dr. !urr$' $ctu$((' to(" the4 th$t he h$" the 4e"ic$( itu$tion un"er contro(# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. In f$ct# he pecific$((' intructe" !r. Orte3$ to top 3ettin3 in&o(&e" in 4e"ic$( c$re $n" to (e$&e
th$t to hi4e(f# the profeion$(# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. No0# in the te$4 ph'ici$n conte)t $t t$nfor"# $ ph'ici$n, $uthorit' in th$t $re$ i u(ti4$te# ri3ht8
A. +rett' ne$r u(ti4$te# 'e.
/. In other 0or"# if 'ou h$&e the te$4 ph'ici$n $'in3 one thin3# $n" the co$ch $n" p($'er $'in3
o4ethin3 e(e# the te$4 ph'ici$n i the one 0ho i reponi1(e for the 4e"ic$( c$re# he, the one
0hoe opinion contro(# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So it, not urpriin3 to he$r $ ph'ici$n $'# 5Fe'# t$' in 'our o0n ($ne# fo(2. I,4 the "octor# $n"
I,&e 3ot thi un"er contro(58
A. No. ;he iue i ho0 he$&i(' conf(icte" the ph'ici$n i 4$2in3 th$t t$te4ent.
/. <i3ht. Aec$ue in 'our &ie0# Dr. !urr$' $t thi point 0$ =ut o conf(icte" he h$" no cre"i1i(it'
A. Fe 0$ not re(i$1(e# correct.
/. Aut 'ou "on,t 1e(ie&e th$t hi 0i(( 0$ $ctu$((' "etro'e"# ri3ht8
A. I "on,t 2no0 ho0 I cou(" "eter4ine th$t.

/. -e((# i it 'our opinion th$t Dr. !urr$', 0i(( 0$ co4p(ete(' "etro'e" 1' thi 99 thi conf(ict of
interet uch th$t he h$" no po0er $n'4ore8
A. I thin2 he 0$ &er' he$&i(' conf(icte".
/. -h$t, 99 0h$t, the 1$i for th$t8 Di" Dr. !urr$' e&er $'# 5I,4 he$&i(' conf(icte" here58
A. Not th$t I rec$((.
/. In f$ct# he $ctu$((' he(" !r. J$c2on out of rehe$r$( on June 13th# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" then on 99 on June 20th# he to(" tour pro"ucer# 5Fe'# t$' in 'our o0n ($ne. I,4 the one in
ch$r3e of 4e"ic$( c$re#5 ri3ht8
A. 7e# he "i".
/. An" then on June 99 I thin2 it 0$ the 22n"# he to(" K$th' Jorrie# 57ou," 1etter 4$2e ure th$t thi
contr$ct $' !r. J$c2on t$2e "irect 99 I t$2e "irection fro4 !r. J$c2on $n" not fro4 'ou#5 ri3ht8
A. 7e. +reu4$1(' he 0$ fee(in3 $ (ot of preure.
/. -e((# "o 'ou thin2 he, fee(in3 preure =ut 1ec$ue he $2e" th$t the contr$ct 1e c($rifie" to ho0
th$t he, the one reponi1(e for !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. E&er'thin3 in"ic$te he, recei&in3 preure.
/. 5e&er'thin35 4e$nin38
A. ;hee e4$i(.
/. Specific$((' 99
A. ;hi co44unic$tion.
/. 99 0hich e4$i( in"ic$te to 'ou th$t Dr. !urr$' i recei&in3 preure8
A. 5#e need to remind him who he works for.5
/. An'thin3 e(e8
A. -e((# I thin2 99 I thin2 $(( of thee in"ic$te th$t he 99 th$t 99 th$t he i recei&in3 preure# $n" he,
conf(icte"# 'e. An" 0e 2no0 he, conf(icte".
/. I,4 $2in3 'ou 0h$t in the e4$i( 99 'ou 3$&e 4e one pecific e)$4p(e. -h$t e(e in the e4$i(
in"ic$te to 'ou th$t Dr. !urr$' i fee(in3 preure8

A. C$n I (oo2 throu3h thee for $ 4inute8
/. Sure. ;$2e 'our ti4e.
A. !r. +hi((ip notice in th$t 99 or in th$t e4$i( 4ention th$t conf(ict of interet i $n i4port$nt iue.
/. Not 4' Euetion.
A. O2$'. ;he "octor i in the fo(".
/. So 'ou 1e(ie&e the t$te4ent the "octor i in the fo(" 4e$n th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ 1ein3 preure"8
A. Li2e('# 'e.
/. O2$'. -h$t e(e8
A. 5Take the doctor with you.5
/. 7ou thin2 $ reco44en"$tion to 1rin3 the "octor into $ 4eetin3 $1out !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re
repreent th$t the "octor i fee(in3 preure8
A. It, not $ u33etion# it, 4ore or (e $n or"er# 5;$2e the "octor 0ith 'ou.5 7e$h# I thin2 th$t i o4e
/. 7ou h$&en,t re$" !r. Gon3$0$re, teti4on' $1out th$t e4$i(# h$&e 'ou8
A. No. 5He re*uires more attention and management than he's currently getting.5
/. ;h$t, !r. J$c2on# not the "octor# ri3ht8
A. +$r"on 4e8
/. ;h$t 5he5 there i !r. J$c2on# not Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So ho0 "oe th$t in"ic$te Dr. !urr$' i fee(in3 preure8
A. -e((# preu4$1(' th$t 4e$3e i 3ettin3 throu3h to hi4. I "on,t h$&e e&i"ence of th$t# 1ut
preu4$1(' it i.
/. So th$t, not $ctu$((' e&i"ence of preure8
A. O2$'. <eEuet for 4eetin3 0ith the "octor.
/. After !r. J$c2on i &er' i((# ri3ht8
A. ;here 0$ $(o K$i Ch$e, teti4on' the "octor (eft the rei"ence upet# $'in3 he "i"n,t 0$nt to
h$n"(e thi 2in" of tuff $n'4ore $fter the 4eetin3. ;here i $n in"ic$tion th$t he, un"er preure.

/. So it ee4 to 4e th$t 'ou,&e 3i&en# 1$ic$(('# t0o e)$4p(e@ !. Ch$e, teti4on' $n" !r.
Gon3$0$re, e4$i(# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
Mr. #loss$ &'ection> +orm.
-ud)e$ &3erruled.
2he 8itness$ 5es.
/. An'thin3 e(e th$t pecific$((' in 'our 4in" in"ic$te preure th$t Dr. !urr$' i fee(in38
A. -e((# the f$ct th$t he i 99 thoe t0o $re 99 thoe t0o $re the one I c$n thin2 of ri3ht no0# 'e.
/. So 0e h$&e to 1e(ie&e 'our interpret$tion of !r. Gon3$0$re, e4$i( $n" 0h$te&er i4p(ic$tion 'ou
c$n "r$0 fro4 !. Ch$e, teti4on'8
A. 6or 0h$t $re 'ou 1e(ie&in3 thoe8
/. 6or the preure. In other 0or" 99 (et 4e 1e 4ore pecific $1out !r. Gon3$0$re, e4$i(. !r.
Gon3$0$re tetifie he ne&er po2e to Dr. !urr$' $1out 0ho 0$ p$'in3 hi $($r'# ne&er put preure
on hi4. ;h$t 0ou(" ne3$te the effect of th$t e4$i(# ri3ht8
A. S$' th$t $3$in# p(e$e8
/. Sure. One of 'our 1$e for Dr. !urr$' fee(in3 preure i th$t there, $n e4$i( th$t $' 5/emind
him who's !aying his salary.5 !r. Gon3$0$re tetifie th$t he ne&er 4et 0ith Dr. !urr$'# $n" ne&er
h$" $ con&er$tion 0ith Dr. !urr$' re4in"in3 hi4 0ho 0$ p$'in3 hi $($r' $n"# in f$ct# ne&er to("
hi4 in $n' 0$'# h$pe or for4# 5AEG Li&e i p$'in3 'our $($r'#5 other th$n th$t initi$( con&er$tion
1$c2 in 4$' $ to ho0 he 0$ 1ein3 fin$nce". If th$t, true# then th$t e4$i( i no (on3er $ 1$i for
preure# ri3ht8
A. ;he 0or" $ren,t# 1ut I thin2 the tone i there.
/. Aut it, on(' preure if it, $ctu$((' co44unic$te" to Dr. !urr$'. -e c$n $3ree on th$t# ri3ht8
A. Co44unic$tion t$2e &$riou for4.
/. Correct. Aut it h$ to 1e co44unic$te" in o4e for48
A. 7e$h. It c$n 1e the 0$' the cu(ture i et up# it c$n 1e the en&iron4ent $n" 99 $n" th$t, $ 4etho" of
co44unic$tion th$t, not nece$ri(' &er1$(. -e ee th$t in port $(( the ti4e.
/. Aut# in f$ct# the inter$ction 1et0een AEG Li&e peronne( $n" Dr. !urr$' 0ere prett' 4ini4$(#
A. 7e# I 1e(ie&e o.

/. A coup(e 4eetin38
A. 7e.
/. Aoth 4eetin3 0ith !r. J$c2on preent8
A. 7e.
/. An" one phone c$((8
A. 7e.
/. No0# $t th$t 4eetin3# !r. J$c2on 0$ there# $ 0e((# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" if !r. Orte3$ $n" !r. +hi((ip, teti4on' i to 1e to 1e 1e(ie&e"# he ho0e" no i3n of the
i((ne he h$" the ni3ht 1efore# ri3ht8
A. 7e@ 1ut the',re ($'peop(e.
/. <i3ht. Aut ($'peop(e 0ere the peop(e 0ho h$" o1er&e" !r. J$c2on, '4pto4 on June 1Dth# too#
A. Aut 0e,&e "icue" th$t the',re not $1(e to 4$2e "i$3noe.
/. Co4p(ete(' $3ree the',re not $1(e to 4$2e "i$3noe@ 1ut the' $re $1(e to o1er&e '4pto!# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" per their o1er&$tion# on June 20th# $t the 4eetin3# !r. J$c2on 0$ not tre41(in38
A. 7e.
/ !r. J$c2on 0$ not co("8
A. 7e.
/. !r. J$c2on 0$ not r$41(in38
A. 7e.
/. Fe 0$ pe$2in3 (uci"('8
A. 7e.
/. Fe $ppe$re" $(ert8

A. 7e.
/. ;h$t, 99 th$t, per their teti4on'# correct8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' re$on to "ou1t th$t teti4on'# "o 'ou8
A. No.
/. No0# 'eter"$' 'ou $i" th$t the itu$tion 0ith !r. J$c2on on June 1Dth 0$ (i2e the fourth Eu$rter
of $ foot1$(( 3$4e# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t, 99 th$t, ri3ht 1efore the 3$4e i o&er# ri3ht8
A. It, the fourth Eu$rter# 'e.
/. Aut here# 0e 0eren,t $t the fourth Eu$rter# re$(('# 0ere 0e8 It, ti(( $ 4onth 1efore the ho0# $(4ot#
A. -h$t I 4e$nt 1' th$t 0$ there 0$ $ e4i9crii itu$tion# circ(e the 0$3on# th$t 2in" of thin3.
/. Aut !r. J$c2on ti(( h$" o4e ti4e 1efore he h$" to perfor4 hi openin3 ni3ht# ri3ht8
A. I thin2 he h$" 20 "$' or o4ethin3 (i2e th$t# 'e.
/. An" 20 "$' in,t $ (ot of ti4e# 1ut it, $ (ot 4ore th$n the fourth Eu$rter of $ foot1$(( 3$4e# ri3ht8
A. It i 4ore# 'e.
/. In other 0or"# it 0$ poi1(e to 0$it $ fe0 "$' $n" ee 0h$t 0$ 3oin3 on 0ith !r. J$c2on#
A. 7e.
/. An"# in f$ct# !r. J$c2on "i"n,t rehe$re for $ coup(e of "$'# correct8
A. 7e.
/. An" then 0hen he "i" return to rehe$r$(# he $ppe$re" 4uch 1etter# correct8
A. Correct.
/. An" 4$'1e not $(( the 0$' 1etter# there, o4e conf(ictin3 teti4on' on th$t# 1ut u1t$nti$((' 1etter#
A. 7e.

/. Not $t $(( (i2e he 0$ on the 1Dth8
A. <i3ht.
/. No0# 0e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out !r. J$c2on, "ec(ine# "ec(inin3 he$(th# or 0h$t h$&e 'ou# I thin2
'ou $i"# thi 4ornin3.
A. 7e.
/. Aut th$t 0$ $ctu$((' $ &er' hort perio" of ti4e# correct8
A. I 1e(ie&e !r. Fou3"$h( $i" he "ec(ine" o&er $n ei3ht90ee2 perio".
/. Aut !r. Fou3"$h(, June 1Dth e4$i( $t 10?5: p.!. I the on(' 1$i for th$t# ri3ht8
A. I 1e(ie&e K$ren 6$'e $i" th$t# too.
/. Di"n,t !. 6$'e# in f$ct# tetif' th$t he "i"n,t ee $n' pro1(e4 0ith !r. J$c2on unti( e$r(' to 4i"
A. 7ou,re ri3ht. I,4 not ure of the e)$ct "$te.
/. In f$ct# prett' 4uch 99 other th$n !r. Fou3"$h(, e4$i(# prett' 4uch $(( the e&i"ence $1out !r.
J$c2on not 1ein3 99 1ein3 in not 3oo" h$pe co4e fro4 4i" June or ($ter# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht. !r. +hi((ip c$(( 99 c$(( it "ec(inin3. Fe ue" the 0or" 5"ec(inin35 he$(th.
/. -e((# he ue" the 0or" 5"ec(ine5 in hi e4$i( recitin3 the con&er$tion 0ith Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. So 'ou "on,t $ctu$((' 2no0 0hether th$t 0$ !r. +hi((ip, 0or" or Dr. !urr$', 0or" or 0here th$t
c$4e fro48
A. <i3ht.
/. Aut in $n' e&ent# it, $ prett' hort perio"# t$rtin3 4$'1e $roun" the 13th of June or o8
A. Dec(inin3 uu$((' 4e$n $ (on3er perio" of ti4e.
/. Aut there, no $ctu$( e&i"ence in the recor" th$t 'ou $re $0$re of th$t !r. J$c2on 0$# in f$ct#
"ec(inin3 o&er $ (on3 perio" of ti4e8
A. K$ren 6$'e 3i&e teti4on' $1out !r. Auh th$t "oe the unifor4# $n" h$&in3 to t$2e the4 in
1ec$ue of continue" 0ei3ht (o.
/. ;h$t 0$ in ($te June# correct8

A. I,4 not ure of the e)$ct ti4in3 of it.
/. -ou(" it ch$n3e 'our un"ert$n"in3 of !r. Fou3"$h(, e4$i( $t $(( if 'ou 2ne0 =ut four "$' 1efore
en"in3 th$t e4$i(# he h$" ent $nother e4$i( $'in3 $(( th$t 0$ 0ron3 0ith !r. J$c2on 0$ he
nee"e" o4e cheee1ur3er $n" $ coup(e of 1r$t $n" 1eer8
A. -ou(" it ch$n3e 0h$t8
/. 7our opinion th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ in "ec(ine o&er $ (on3 perio" of ti4e.
A. -e((# 1' 5(on3 perio" of ti4e#5 0e 4e$n $ fe0 0ee2. I "on,t thin2 th$t he$(thc$re 1ounce up $n"
"o0n on $n hour(' or "$i(' 1$i.
/. I,4 t$(2in3 $1out 0h$t, o1er&e"# thou3h.
A. 7e.
/. At (e$t four "$' 1efore !r. Fou3"$h( 0rote the ei3ht90ee2 e4$i( th$t 'ou reference" =ut no0# he
$i" !r. J$c2on =ut nee" o4e cheee1ur3er# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So $t th$t point# he "i"n,t thin2 there 0$ $ eriou pro1(e4 0ith !r. J$c2on8
Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm> misstates e3idence.
-ud)e$ &3erruled.
A. It, h$r" to 2no0 0h$t the e)tent of hi i4preion 0$.
/. Aut 'ou,re &er' 3oo" $t re$"in3 e4$i(# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" $n e4$i( th$t $' o4eone =ut nee" o4e cheee1ur3er $n" $ coup(e of 1r$t $n" 1eer
"oen,t in"ic$te th$t o4eone h$ $ eriou he$(th pro1(e4# ri3ht8
A. It "oen,t oun"# $ctu$(('# (i2e $ eriou
/. <i3ht. It oun" (i2e the',re =o2in3# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" it, not $t $(( the tone th$t !r. Fou3"$h( too2 on June 1Dth8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" if 99 'ou 2ne0 th$t throu3hout thi perio" there, $ (ot of other e&i"ence th$t !r. J$c2on 0$

$ctu$((' "oin3 0e(( prior to 4i" June# in,t there8
A. 7e.
/. 6or int$nce# on Apri( 2Cth# he h$" $n enor4ou "$'# $n" th$t he $n" !r. Orte3$ "icue" 1i3
"re$4 for $(( the &i"eo portion of hi ho08
A. 7e.
/. On !$' 12# there 0$ $n $1o(ute(' f$nt$tic "$' th$t 0$ o pro"ucti&e th$t !r. +$'ne $ctu$(('
ent $ th$n29'ou note to !r. J$c2on8
A. 7e.
/. On !$' 1Cth# !r. J$c2on $tten"e" $ "inner 0ith prett' 4uch hi entire f$4i('# $n" the' $(( $i" he
(oo2e" 0e(( $n" en3$3e" $n" nor4$(8
A. 7e.
/. On !$' 22n"# !r. J$c2on h$" $ 3re$t eion $t the houe 0here he 0ent throu3h 4u(tip(e on3
$n" the choreo3r$ph'8
A. 7e.
/. On !$' 2G# !r. J$c2on 0$ ti(( $t "$nce rehe$r$( $t D?00 p.!. D$ncin3 $ nu41er of on38
A. 7e.
/. On June 3r"# !r. J$c2on $tten"e" $ four9hour 4eetin3 0ith $"&ertiin3 e)ecuti&e to "icu tour
4erch$n"ie "ei3n8
A. 7e.
/. An" 0$ $(ert $n" en3$3e" throu3hout th$t 0ho(e 4eetin38
A. 7e.
/. An" then on June Cth# !r. Gon3$0$re reporte" eein3 !r. J$c2on run throu3h nine on3 $n"
in3in3 e&er' one8
A. 7e.
/. So# re$(('# there, $ (ot of e&i"ence th$t up unti( e$r(' to 4i" June# peop(e 0eren,t noticin3 pro1(e4
0ith !r. J$c2on# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" then thi 99 thi perio" of concern 0$ $ctu$((' f$ir(' hort in ti4e8

A. 7e.
/. Doe th$t ch$n3e $n' of 'our opinion in thi c$e8
A. It "oen,t ch$n3e 4' opinion 0ith repect to 1rin3in3 thoe he$(th concern for0$r" $n" the 0$'
th$t 0$ h$n"(e".
/. An" it, $ (itt(e unpecific. I it 99 I,&e 3ot to fi3ure out ho0 to 0or" thi. A of !$' 200D 0hen !r.
J$c2on 0$ in $pp$rent(' 3oo" he$(th# $n" $2e" AEG Li&e to p$' for hi ph'ici$n to co4e on tour
0ith hi4# 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t there 0$ no 0$' AEG Li&e cou(" ethic$((' "o th$t# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. An" then 'ou $(o h$&e concern $1out June 1ec$ue 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t 99 the 0$' the itu$tion 0ith
!r. J$c2on, he$(th there 0$ h$n"(e" 0$ 0ron3# $n" th$t, 1ec$ue 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t 'ou cou("n,t
trut !r. J$c2on or hi pri4$r' c$re ph'ici$n# ri3ht8
A. I thin2 th$t the conf(ict9of9interet itu$tion 0$ et out $n" et up $n" 0hen it p($'e" out 0ith the
"e&e(op4ent of thoe he$(th concern# th$t, 0here it 1ec$4e o1&iou th$t the conf(ict 0$ eriou.
/. So to 'ou# !r. J$c2on 1ein3 i(( on June 1Dth# 200D# "e4ontr$te" th$t hi ph'ici$n h$" $ conf(ict
of interet8
A. Aein3 i((# no.
/. -e((# 0h$t# then8
A. Fo0 it 0$ h$n"(e".
/. Aut 0ou("n,t it 1e $ppropri$te nor4$(('# in 'our opinion# to h$&e $ con&er$tion 0ith 99 0ith $
p$tient, "octor# "ecri1e the '4pto4# $n" then $2 th$t "octor for ho0 1et to procee" 0ith
rehe$r$(# if $t $((8
A. 6or AEG ;o $2 th$t8
/. 6or 99 (et, 3o 1$c2 to the te$4. Let, $' the port te$4. It 0ou(" 1e $ppropri$te 99 ri3ht8 99 (et, $'
$ p($'er# $fter $ 3$4e# "e4ontr$te '4pto4 i4i($r to !r. J$c2on, on the 1Dth. ;he $ppropri$te
thin3 to "o 0ou(" 1e to h$&e the te$4 "octor e)$4ine hi4 $n" then "ecri1e the '4pto4 th$t h$"
1een o1er&e" to the te$4 "octor# $n" then $2 the te$4 "octor# 5o2$'. -h$t# if $n'thin3# "o 0e nee" to
"o to 4$2e ure th$t 0e,re 4eetin3 the p($'er, nee"#5 ri3ht8
A. No. I thin2 the $ppropri$te thin3 0ou(" 1e to =ut h$n" it o&er to the "octor $n" not h$&e $n' further
/. -e((# $t o4e point# the p($'er i 3oin3 to co4e 1$c2# ri3ht8
A. -e((# 0e,(( ee. -e,(( ee 0h$t, 0ron3.
/. -e((# (et, $' there, $ 3$4e th$t 0ee2en". It, not $ppropri$te to $2 the "octor 0hether or not the

p($'er 0i(( 1e re$"' to p($' th$t 0ee2en"8
A. If there, '4pto4 $fter $ 3$4e# then the $th(ete 3oe in to 3et thoe chec2e" out# e)$4ine"# the
"i$3noi i 4$"e# $n" 0i(( 1e 1$c2 $t o4e point in ti4e 0ith $ report.
/. So $t o4e point# the' "o 3et $ report $ to 0h$t, ne)t for the p($'er# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. So ettin3 $i"e the conf(ict of interet th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e e)it# there 0$ nothin3 inherent(' 0ron3
0ith t$(2in3 to !r. J$c2on, "octor $1out hi '4pto4 $n" then $2in3 !r. J$c2on, "octor# 5o2$'.
-here "o 0e 3o fro4 here85 ri3ht8
A. -e((# the pro1(e4 i there 0$ no "i$3noi. ;here 0$ re$((' nothin3 to $2 $1out.
/. -e((# 'ou "on,t 2no0 there 0$ no "i$3noi# ri3ht8
A. -e 2no0 th$t <$n"' +hi((ip $i" he, not cert$in 0hether it, che4ic$( or ph'io(o3ic$( or 0h$t,
3oin3 on.
/. <i3ht. Aut 0e,&e t$(2e" $1out the f$ct th$t !r. +hi((ip 0ou("n,t 1e the one 4$2in3 the "i$3noi#
A. Correct. -h$t i the Euetion8
/. !' Euetion i# there, nothin3 inherent(' 0ron3 0ith 99 ettin3 $i"e conf(ict of interet# if there
0ere no conf(ict of interet# there 0ou(" 1e nothin3 0ron3 0ith t$(2in3 to !r. J$c2on, "octor $n"
$'in3# 5he'# i he o2$'8 -h$t# if $n'thin3# hou(" 0e 1e "oin3 "ifferent('85 ri3ht8
A. ;h$t, fine# 'e.
/. So 'our on(' re$( pro1(e4 0ith ho0 the June 1Dth $n" 20th itu$tion 0$ h$n"(e" i the f$ct th$t
'ou 1e(ie&e th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ oper$tin3 un"er uch $n i4poi1(e conf(ict th$t hi opinion cou(" not
1e trute"# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. An" th$t, 1$e" on the f$ct th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t no one cou(" "o $3ree4ent 0ith 99 (i2e the one th$t
0$ p($nne" here 0ithout puttin3 $ "octor in $ poi1(e co4pro4ie" con"ition8
A. No# not un"er thee con"ition.
/. No0# 'ou,re $0$re th$t +($intiff, e)pert# "$&i" 1er4$n# tetifie" ($t 0ee2 99 4$'1e 'ou,re not
$0$re of it 99 there, no pro1(e4 if $n $rtit =ut 0$nt to 1rin3 $ "octor on $ tour $ (on3 $ the' hire
the "octor8
A. 7e.
/. -ou(" 'ou $3ree 0ith th$t t$te4ent8

A. -e((# if there $re no con"ition 0ith $ thir" p$rt'# 'e# I 0ou(".
/. So e&en if the $4e con"ition e)it in ter4 of if the tour 3et c$nce((e"# the "octor "oen,t 3et p$i"#
'ou,re ti(( o2$' 0ith it8
A. If th$t, 1et0een the $rtit $n" the "octor8
/. 7e.
A. 7e.
/. So th$t, $ ch$n3e fro4 'our "epoition8
A. -e((# I thin2 it ti(( i $ conf(ict of interet. It, not $n i"e$( itu$tion# 1ut it, &er' "ifferent th$n the
circu4t$nce here.
/. An" in 'our &ie0# it, &er' "ifferent fro4 the circu4t$nce here 1ec$ue 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t p$r$3r$ph
C.1 reEuire" Dr. !urr$' to report to AEG Li&e# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht@ $n" their inf(uence.
/. An" if p$r$3r$ph C.1 0$ out of the picture# then there re$((' i no "ifference# ri3ht8
A. I thin2 AEG i ti(( in&o(&e".
/. In&o(&e"8
A. -e((# 'ou 2no0# $2in3 4e to pecu($te# the' 0ere in&o(&e" throu3hout thi 0ith their 4eetin3 0ith
their e4$i( $n" o forth. So if th$t 0$ 3one# th$t 99 if th$t p$rticu($r pro&iion 0$ 3one# it 0ou("
re"uce the conf(ict# 'e.
/. <i3ht. An" 0e,&e $(re$"' t$(2e" $1out there, $ctu$((' t0o 4eetin3 99 ri3ht8 99 in June8
A. 7e.
/. One phone c$((8
A. 7e.
/. So it, not (i2e $ 1i3 $4ount of cont$ct other th$n 'our concern $1out p$r$3r$ph C.1# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. No0# Dr. !$theon# it, 'our opinion th$t there, i3nific$nt ri2 0ith $ "octor tre$tin3 =ut one
p$tient or one f$4i('# ri3ht8
A. ;here c$n 1e# 'e.

/. F$&e 'ou re$" e)pert teti4on' of +($intiff, 0itne Dr. -oh(3e(ernter8
A. No.
/. So 'ou,re not $0$re th$t Dr. -oh(3e(ernter tetifie" th$t it, not inherent(' pro1(e4$tic for $ "octor
to 0or2 for $ in3(e p$tient8
A. No# I,4 not.
/. -ou(" 'ou "i$3ree 0ith hi4 on th$t8
A. I thin2 it "epen" on the con"ition. A3$in# if it, (u4p u4 $n" there, no ter4 $n" con"ition th$t
contro( the "octor, 4e"ic$( "eciion# then it, not the $4e (e&e( of conf(ict.
/. Au4in3 it, not (u4p u4# $n" the p$tient c$n fire the "octor $t $n' ti4e# 0ou(" 'ou $3ree 0ith
Dr. -oh(3e(ernter then8
A. It cou(" ti(( 99 it cou(" preent $ conf(ict of interet# 1ut it 4$' not. It, $ "ifferent (e&e(.
/. No0# it, 'our opinion th$t Dr. !urr$', conf(ict of interet 4$' h$&e 99 the conf(ict of interet 'ou
1e(ie&e he h$ 99 h$" 4$' h$&e contri1ute" to co4pro4ie" c$re# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou $' th$t e&en thou3h 'ou $c2no0(e"3e there, no e&i"ence th$t $n'one $t AEG Li&e h$"
4e"ic$( inf(uence o&er Dr. !urr$'8
A. 7e.
/. Aut 'ou,re $(o $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t 99 0e((# 4$'1e 'ou,re not 1ec$ue 'ou "i"n,t re$" the
teti4on' of !r. Gon3$0$re 99 no one $t
AEG Li&e h$" e&er he$r" of Dr. !urr$' prior to 4i" Apri( 200D $t the e$r(iet8
A. 7e.
/. Are 'ou $0$re of th$t8
A. 7e.
/. Aut 'ou,re $(o $0$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t Dr. !urr$' firt or"ere" propofo( $n" h$" it ent to Lo
An3e(e on Apri( Gth# 200D8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t 1' e$r(' Apri( 200D# !. Ch$e 0$ 0$tchin3 Dr. !urr$' co4e "o0n the t$ir 4u(tip(e
ti4e $ 0ee2 c$rr'in3 o)'3en t$n2 in 1oth h$n"8
A. 7e.

/. So 0h$te&er 0$' th$t 'ou 1e(ie&e Dr. !urr$', ethic 4$' h$&e 1een co4pro4ie" 1' hi
$3ree4ent 'ou 1e(ie&e he h$" 0ith AEG Li&e# it "i"n,t c$ue hi4 to or"er propofo( for the firt ti4e#
"i" it8
A. It "i"n,t c$ue hi4 to# no.
Ms. %teins$ ?othin) +urther at this time0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ &.a!. @edirect,
@edirect examination ! "illiam #loss$
/. Dr. !$theon# I 0$nt to "irect 'our $ttention to the June ti4e fr$4e# June 200D. Do 'ou h$&e $n
opinion $ to the June ti4e fr$4e $ to 0hether the conf(ict of interet cre$te" 1' AEG Li&e (e" to 99
(i2e(' (e" to Dr. !urr$', u1t$n"$r" 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. 7e# I "o.
/. -h$t, th$t opinion8
A. !' opinion i th$t the conf(ict of interet contri1ute" in $ 99 in $ &er' i3nific$nt 0$' to Dr.
!urr$', t$n"$r" of c$re.
/. An" th$t, 1$e" on the fin$nci$( conf(ict of interet 'ou tetifie" $1out e$r(ier 99
A. 7e.
/. 99 in p$rt8
A. I thin2 the 0$' 99 the 0$' it h$ppene" 0$ the conf(ict of interet 0$ et up# $n" then the ph'ic$(
'4pto4 $ppe$re"# $n" there 0$ $n $tte4pt to contro( thoe# $n" then other peop(e 0ho 0$nte" to
re3iter their co4p($int 0ere puhe" 1$c2# o it p($'e" out in ($te June.
/. Dr. !$theon# h$&e 'ou 1een in&o(&e" in itu$tion 0here co$che or te$4 o0ner or te$4
e4p(o'ee trie" to interfere# put preure on $ te$4 "octor8
A. 7e# I h$&e.
/. Fo0 4$n' phone c$(( "oe it t$2e to tr' to "o th$t8
A. One.
/. Fo0 4$n' 4eetin3 "oe it t$2e to tr' to "o th$t8
A. One.

/. In 'our e)perience 0hen 'ou,&e confronte" $"4initr$tor 99 h$&e 'ou confronte" $"4initr$tor8
A. 7e# I h$&e.
/. An" "o the' often co4e $n" $'# 57ou,re ri3ht# "octor. I "i" tr' to put preure on the te$4
A. No.
/. An"# in f$ct# "i" 'ou re&ie0 !r. +hi((ip, teti4on' $1out the June 20th 4eetin38
A. 7e.
/. Aoth in hi "epoition $n" in thi courtroo4 1efore thi =ur'8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou re&ie0e" !r. Orte3$, teti4on' $1out the June 20th 4eetin3 $t hi "epoition8
A. 7e.
/ "i" 99 0ere 'ou $1(e to 99 "i" 'ou 99 0$ there $n inconitenc' th$t 'ou 99 th$t $ffecte" 'our $1i(it'
to fin" out 0h$t h$ppene" $t th$t 4eetin38
A. -e((# I "on,t 1e(ie&e he re4e41ere" the 4eetin3.
/. !r. +hi((ip8
A. 7e.
/. An" 0$ there 99 in ter4 of the (en3th of the 4eetin3# i there $n'thin3 $1out th$t th$t $ffecte"
'our $1i(it' to $e 0h$t the n$ture of the infor4$tion con&e'e" in the 4eetin3 0$8
A. I 1e(ie&e the 4eetin3 0$ o4e0here 1et0een $n hour $n" $n hour $n" $ h$(f.
/. Accor"in3 to !r. +hi((ip8
A. 7e.
/. An" "i" !r. Orte3$ h$&e $ "ifferent teti4on' $1out (e$&in3 the 4eetin3 $t o4e point8
A. I 1e(ie&e he $i" he (eft $fter 10 or 15 4inute.
/. An" "i" th$t h$&e $n i4p$ct on 'our $1i(it' to un"ert$n" 0h$t h$" $ctu$((' h$ppene" $t th$t
A. -e((# 'e# it 99 it 99 I 1e(ie&e 0h$t h$ppene" 0$ o4e 2in" of $ confront$tion 0here !r. Orte3$
1rou3ht 4e"ic$( infor4$tion for0$r" $n" then (eft 1efore the 4eetin3 0$ o&er@ o (i2e(' th$t 0$ not $
frien"(' 4eetin3# th$t 0$ $ confront$tion$( 4eetin3.

/. An" 'ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $1out !r. Fou3"$h(, e4$i( 5$'ve watched )ichael deteriorate
over the last eight weeks.5 "o 'ou re4e41er th$t e4$i(8
A. 7e# 'e.
/. An" 'ou,&e (oo2e" $t thou$n" of p$3e of "ocu4ent in thi c$e8
A. 7e.
/. !u(tip(e e4$i(8
A. 7e.
/. E)teni&e "ocu4ent8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou e&er ee one 0or" 0here !r. +hi((ip 0rote 1$c2 to !r. Fou3"$h( $n" $i"# 5John# th$t, =ut
not the c$e58
A. No.
/. Do 'ou ee $n' e&i"ence in the recor" th$t 'ou h$&e re&ie0e" th$t Dr. !urr$' e&er $i" to !r.
+hi((ip# 5I 2no0 0h$t the pro1(e4 i. Fere, 0h$t it i58
A. No.
/. An" "oe th$t trou1(e 'ou in ter4 of $ conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i8
A. 7e# $1o(ute('.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue the concern hou(" 1e for the $rtit, he$(th# for !r. J$c2on, he$(th. So $ "i$3noi i
reEuire"@ $n" $n' ti4e '4pto! $re 1rou3ht for0$r"# the' nee" to 1e p$i" $ttention to. An" in thi
c$e# it "oen,t $ppe$r th$t the' 0ere.
/. In coni"erin3 99 'ou,&e $(re$"' t$(2e" $1out the phone c$((# the 2594inute phone c$(( on June 20th
1et0een !r. +hi((ip $n" Dr. !urr$'8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' e&i"ence $t $(( in the recor" th$t !r. J$c2on# the p$tient# 3$&e per4iion for hi
"octor to c$(( !r. +hi((ip th$t "$'8
A. No.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' infor4$tion $t $((# other th$n !r. +hi((ip, teti4on'# $1out 0h$t too2 p($ce in

th$t phone c$((8
A. No.
/. Di" 99 $n" 'ou,re $0$re of 0h$t !r. +hi((ip tetifie" to in thi courtroo4 $ to 0h$t he cou("
re4e41er fro4 the phone c$((8
A. 7e.
/. An" "i" it $ppe$r to 'ou th$t he h$" $ fu(( reco((ection of e&er'thin3 th$t 0$ $i" in th$t 2594inute
phone c$((8
A. No.
/. An"# in f$ct# "i" 'ou rec$(( th$t 0hen !r. +hi((ip 0$ $2e" $1out th$t phone c$(( in hi "epoition
99 "o 'ou re4e41er ho0 (on3 he $i" the phone c$(( ($te"8
A. I thin2 it 0$ t0o or three 4inute.
/. An" !r. +hi((ip $ctu$((' 99 'ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $1out 0hether it 0ou(" 1e $ppropri$te
for the ph'ici$n to 3i&e $ "i$3noi to !r. +hi((ip $t the June 20th 4eetin3 in the $1ence of
per4iion fro4 !r. J$c2on. Do 'ou re4e41er 1ein3 $2e" thoe Euetion =ut no08
A. 7e.
/. An"# in f$ct# !r. +hi((ip "i" $2 0h$t 0$ 0ron38
A. 7e.
/. Correct8
A. 7e.
/. At (e$t $ccor"in3 to hi teti4on'# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 0h$t "i" !r. +hi((ip tetif' Dr. !urr$' $i" 0$ 0ron38
Ms. %teins$ &'ection> 3a)ue as to Mr. Phillips; testimon!. 1re !ou spea.in) at his deposition,
-ud)e$ &.a!.
Ms. %teins$ =e said he read three pa)es o+ the trial testimon!0 so *;m 'ust tr!in) to clari+! +or
the record.
Mr. #loss$ ?o0 !our honor0 that;s not 8hat he said. =e said he read three da!s0 not three pa)es.

Ms. %teins$ %orr!. 2hree da!s. M! mista.e.
Mr. Panish$ "ell0 Phillips didn;t rememer an!thin).
-ud)e$ Mr. Panish0 no comments0 please.
Mr. Panish$ *;m sorr!.
Ms. %teins$ 2he o'ection0 !our honor0 8as 3a)ue as to 8hich testimon!.
-ud)e$ &.a!. "h! don;t !ou 'ust rephrase.
Mr. #loss$ 2hat;s +ine.
Mr. Panish$ *;m sorr!.
/. !r. +hi((ip $2e" Dr. !urr$' 0h$t the pro1(e4 0$# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou tetifie" e$r(ier th$t th$t 0ou(" 1e $ppropri$te# for $ "octor to h$re the "i$3noi if the
p$tient 3$&e per4iion8
A. 7e.
/. An" the p$tient 0$ ittin3 ri3ht there# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e 99 $t (e$t $ccor"in3 to !r. +hi((ip, recountin3 of th$t 4eetin3# "i" the p$tient
offer $n' o1=ection to the Euetion8
A. No.
/. An" "i" Dr. !urr$'# upon 1ein3 $2e" 0h$t, the pro1(e4 0ith the t$r of thi ho0 on June 1Dth 99
"i" Dr. !urr$' h$&e $n $n0er8
A. I 1e(ie&e he $i" he 0$n,t ure.
/. An" i th$t $ "i$3noi8
A. No.
/. -h$t 0ou(" $ "octor 0ho 0$n,t ure in th$t itu$tion# preente" 0ith thi 99 0ho i unconf(icte"# "o
A. -ou(" un"ert$2e to 4$2e $ "i$3noi 0ith proper in&eti3$tion or conu(t$tion 0ith e)pert.

/. No0# there i one of the e4$i( th$t 'ou 0ere =ut ho0n th$t t$(2e" $1out 0here !r. +hi((ip
reporte" 99 I thin2 I,4 referrin3 to e)hi1it 30:. ;hi i the e4$i( 0here !r. +hi((ip 99 "o 'ou h$&e th$t
in front of 'ou# Dr. !$theon8
A. 7e.
/. !urr$' $i" th$t !ich$e( i not on(' ph'ic$((' eEuippe" to perfor4 99 no0# i th$t conitent or
inconitent 0ith Dr. !urr$', t$te4ent# $ccor"in3 to +hi((ip# th$t he cou(" not 4$2e $ "i$3noi8
A. It, inconitent.
/. 5$n" "icour$3in3 hi4 to 0i(( h$ten hi "ec(ine inte$" of toppin3 it.5 "o 'ou ee th$t8
A. 7e# I "o.
/. An" 'ou un"ert$n" th$t $ Dr. !urr$' reportin3 to !r. +hi((ip th$t toppin3 0i(( h$ten the
A. 7e.
/. An" h$&e 'ou een $n'thin3 in the "ocu4ent th$t 'ou,&e 1een ho0n 0here !r. +hi((ip $i"# 5I
"on,t 2no0 0h$t 'ou,re t$(2in3 $1out $1out $ "ec(ine8 -here 99 0h$t "ec(ine85
A. No.
/. I there $n'thin3 (i2e th$t th$t 'ou,&e een8
A. No.
/. I th$t 4$teri$( to 'ou8
A. 7e# it i.
/. An" the ne)t entence $i" 5&r. )urray also reiterated that he is mentally able to and was
s!eaking to me from the house where he had s!ent the morning with )'5. Do 'ou ee th$t8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou 99 "i" 'ou h$&e $ &ie0 th$t the 99 there 0$ $ concern $1out 0hether !r. J$c2on h$" $
p'cho(o3ic$( pro1(e4 1efore thi8
A. 7e# in the e4$i( reportin3 hi he$(th concern# 'e.
/. <i3ht. An" !r. Orte3$ h$" $i" 99
A. 7e.
/. 99 50e nee" $ p'chi$tric e&$(u$tion#5 ri3ht8

A. 7e.
/. An" 0h$t 0ere Dr. !urr$', cre"enti$( in ter4 of 4$2in3 $ p'chi$tric "i$3noi to "eci"e th$t
!r. J$c2on i 4ent$((' $1(e to procee"8
A. Fe "oen,t h$&e thoe cre"enti$(. Fe, $ c$r"io(o3it.
/. An" 0h$t 0ou(" $ c$r"io(o3it "o in thi circu4t$nce in ter4 of 3ettin3 $ 4ent$( 99 $
p'cho(o3ic$( e&$(u$tion in $ unconf(icte" itu$tion8
A. Fe 0ou(" nee" to refer the peron to $ conu(t$nt 0ho peci$(i>e in th$t.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' e&i"ence $t $(( th$t th$t h$ppene"8
A. No.
/. No0# 'ou "i" t$(2 $1out 99 $ (itt(e 1it e$r(ier $1out 0hether the 99 the 99 0h$t AEG Cou(" h$&e "one
to u33et to !r. J$c2on or encour$3e !r. J$c2on to 3et $ econ" opinion# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" "i" 'ou h$&e 99 i th$t 'our &ie0 th$t the 99 th$t AEG cou(" h$&e $i"# 5Don,t co4e 1$c2 to
rehe$r$( unti( 'ou,re c(e$r $n" 0e 2no0 0h$t the pro1(e4 i58
A. 7e.
/. 7ou 1e(ie&e th$t 0ou(" h$&e 1een the 4ot re$on$1(e pr$ctice un"er the circu4t$nce8
A. I thin2 th$t, $ &er' 3oo" pr$ctice# 'e.
/. An" i th$t effecti&e(' 0h$t 'ou "o in the conte)t of port 4e"icine8
A. ;h$t, e)$ct(' 0h$t 0e "o.
/. An" i th$t $ 99 i th$t $ 99 $n effecti&e 0$' to reo(&e $n" 4iti3$te conf(ict in the three9p$rt'
4e"ic$( re($tionhip $ 0e h$" here8
A. 7e# it, one of the4.
-ud)e$ <et;s stop no8 and )i3e the 'ur! a 157minute rea..
-ud)e$ Aatherine -ac.son 3ersus 1BG <i3e. 5ou ma! continue 8ith !our redirect.
Mr. #loss$ 2han. !ou0 !our honor.

/. Dr. !$theon# 'ou 0ere "epoe" in thi c$e# 0ere 'ou not8
A. 7e.
/. ;he ($0'er for AEG Li&e 99 or $ ($0'er for AEG Li&e $2e" 'ou Euetion $t $ 99 in $ conference
roo4 in Lo An3e(e8
A. 7e.
/. An" "i" oure(&e pro&i"e 'ou 0ith 4$teri$( to re&ie0 1efore 'our "epoition8
A. 7e.
/. -h$t 99 $n" =ut 3ener$((' 0h$t8
A. ;he' 0ere 4ot(' "epoition 0ith e)hi1it $tt$che".
/. An" "i" the e)hi1it inc(u"e the e4$i( th$t 0e,&e t$(2e" $1out here# the 5trouble at the +ront5
e4$i(# the 5#e have to remind him who's !aying his salary5 e4$i(# $n" 4$n'# 4$n' other e4$i(8
A. 7e# the' "i".
/. Di" 'ou h$&e $n un"ert$n"in3 $ to 0h' 'ou 0ere pro&i"e" 0ith thoe 4$teri$( 1efore 'our
A. It 0$ 99 'e. It 0$ to un"ert$n"# to the e)tent poi1(e# the c$e fro4 the conf(ict9of9interet
/. An" o 'ou cou(" pro&i"e 'our $ccur$te teti4on' $t the "epoition8
A. 7e.
/. I 0$nt to =ut $2 'ou $ coup(e of Euetion $1out Dr. 6in2e(tein. Do 'ou re4e41er 99 $re 'ou
$0$re 99 0h$t infor4$tion "o 'ou h$&e $1out 0hether Dr. 6in2e(tein 0$ $ppro$che" 1' o4e1o"' to
p$rticip$te in thi tour8
A. !' reco((ection i th$t !r. Gon3$0$re "icue" the poi1i(it' 0ith hi4.
/. An" "o 'ou re4e41er Dr. 6in2e(tein offerin3 to perfor4 er&ice on $ coup(e of con"ition8
Ms. %teins$ *;m )oin) to o'ect> e!ond the scope.
-ud)e$ &3erruled.
A. 7e# I rec$((.
/. -h$t 0ere the'8

A. I re4e41er hi4 $'in3 it 0ou(" cot HC0#000# or he 0ou(" 0or2 for HC0#000.
/. +er 4onth# or per 'e$r# or 99
A. +er 4onth.
/. O2$'. A co4p$re" to !urr$', 150#0008
A. 7e.
/. An' other con"ition8
A. Fe $2e" if !r. J$c2on 0$ c(e$n.
/. Fe $2e" 0ho8
A. !r. Gon3$0$re.
/. O2$'. An" "o 'ou 2no0 if 99 i there $n'thin3 th$t 'ou,&e een in !r. Gon3$0$re, teti4on' or !r.
+hi((ip, teti4on' th$t the $(tern$ti&e of uin3 Dr. 6in2e(tein 0$ preente" to !ich$e( J$c2on8
A. No# I h$&en,t een $n' teti4on'.
/. I th$t 4$teri$( to 'ou in $n' 0$' for the purpoe of 'our conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i8
A. 7e. I thin2 it, i4port$nt th$t $n $(tern$ti&e 0$n,t $t (e$t u33ete".
/. ;he 99 $t 'our "epoition# 'ou ho0e" up 0ith o4e nu41er of $rtic(e th$t 'ou $i" 'ou h$"
coni"ere"# re&ie0e"# in co4in3 to 'our opinion. Do 'ou re4e41er th$t8
A. 7e# I "o.
/. Do 'ou re4e41er $ppro)i4$te(' ho0 4$n' $rtic(e# =ourn$(# 1oo2 99$ (et, $' 12 to 15 $rtic(e.
/. A(( ri3ht. -h$t ro(e "i" oure(&e h$&e in pro&i"in3 thoe 4$teri$( to 'ou8
A. None.
/. -h'8 -h$t "i" 'ou "o8
A. I ou3ht thoe out 4'e(f 1' "oin3 $ (iter$ture e$rch.
/. 6or 0h$t purpoe8
A. ;o (oo2 $t the 1$c23roun" infor4$tion th$t 0$ pu1(ihe" in the cientific (iter$ture on conf(ict of
interet# =ut for 4' o0n 1$c23roun".
/. An" "i" 'ou coni"er th$t 99 the cho($r(' ree$rch on the effect of conf(ict of interet# in p$rt# in
co4in3 to 'our conc(uion th$t 'ou,&e tetifie" to here to"$'8

A. 7e# in p$rt.
/. 7ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $1out e)$4p(e of other conf(ict. 7ou 0ere offere" 99 I thin2 'ou
0ere $2e" $1out 0hether the in&o(&e4ent of $n inur$nce co4p$n' in 99 in $ppro&in3 $ p$rticu($r
4e"ic$( tre$t4ent 4i3ht 1e $ conf(ict of interet. Do 'ou re4e41er 3ener$((' t$(2in3 $1out th$t8
A. 7e.
/. -h$t, the "ifference 1et0een th$t ettin3 $n" thi ettin38
A. Aet0een $ 4e"ic$( inur$nce co4p$n' 99
/. <i3ht.
A. In $ 4e"ic$( inur$nce co4p$n'# the',re in the 1uine of he$(thc$re. ;he' un"ert$n" 0h$t conf(ict
of interet i. ;here $re co44ittee in p($ce th$t ho(" 4eetin3 $n" "e$( 0ith report to reo(&e conf(ict
of interet. I 0ou(" $' th$t, $ &er' "ifferent itu$tion.
/. Fo0 $1out the itu$tion 0here 99 I thin2 'ou 0ere 3i&en $ h'pothetic$( of if $ 99 if $ cre"it c$r"
co4p$n' 99 if $ cre"it c$r" 0$ ue" to ch$r3e for 4e"ic$( c$re. I th$t in $n' 0$' $n$(o3ou to thi
itu$tion 0ith AEG Li&e# Dr. !urr$' $n" !ich$e( J$c2on8
A. No# I "on,t 1e(ie&e it i.
/. -h'8
A. -e((# if there $re no con"ition $tt$che" to the cre"it c$r" co4p$n' pro&i"in3 the 4one'# it, =ut $
&er' "ifferent itu$tion. ;he circu4t$nce# the re($tionhip# the con&er$tion $re $(( "ifferent.
/. 7ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $(o $1out Dr. !urr$' poi1(' 3oin3 1$c2 to hi pr$ctice if the tour
h$" 1een c$nce((e"8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou coni"er th$t to 1e $ &i$1(e $(tern$ti&e8
A. Not re$(('. It, h$r" to (e$&e $ pr$ctice. -hen 'ou (e$&e it# 'ou either e(( it or 'ou $rr$n3e for it to
1e t$2en o&er. Aut uu$((' 'ou e(( it# $n" then it, o&er. An" it t$2e $ (on3ti4e# perh$p 'e$r# to 1ui("
$ pr$ctice# t$2e 4onth to 0in" $ pr$ctice "o0n# o it, 99 it, h$r" to ch$n3e in $n" out (i2e th$t.
/. Do 'ou re4e41er Dr. !urr$' 3i&in3 o4e infor4$tion to AEG A1out ho0 (on3 it 0ou(" t$2e to
0in" "o0n hi pr$ctice8
A. 7e# I 1e(ie&e he 99 there 0$ $n e4$i( fro4 !r. Gon3$0$re to the effect th$t he nee"e" ten "$' to
0in" "o0n hi pr$ctice.
!r. A(o? An" if I c$n $ppro$ch# 'our honor.
Ju"3e? 7ou 4$'.

/. If I c$n "r$0 'our $ttention to e)hi1it 1:5# i th$t the e4$i( th$t 'ou,re referrin3 to8 A. 7e# fro4 !r.
Gon3$0$re# 5"one $t 150#000 per 4onth# he nee" $1out ten "$' to 0in" "o0n hi pr$ctice.5
6ro4 'our point of &ie0 in ter4 of the conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i# i it i4port$nt to 'ou# the
t$te4ent th$t he nee" ten "$' to 0in" "o0n hi pr$ctice $n" then 0i(( 1e fu(( ti4e8
A. 7e. -h$t, i4port$nt $1out th$t i it 0ou(" t$2e the t'pic$( ph'ici$n 0ith $ 1u' pr$ctice 4uch
(on3er th$n ten "$' to 0in" it "o0n.
/. Fo0 $1out hi $1i(it' to return to th$t pr$ctice if $ tour 0$ potpone" or c$nce((e" $n" hi contr$ct
to er&e $ the ph'ici$n 0$ 99
A. -e((# I thin2 once 'ou 0in" it "o0n# it, "ifficu(t to 1ui(" it 1$c2 up Euic2('. It 0ou(" t$2e $t (e$t
/. An" i thi in $n' 0$' conitent 0ith 'our &ie0 $ to the fin$nci$( conf(ict of interet th$t Dr.
!urr$' 0$ oper$tin3 un"er $t the ti4e8
A. -h$t it $' to 4e i he (eft hi pr$ctice prett' Euic2('@ $n" t'pic$((' I thin2 'ou tr' to e(( $ pr$ctice
or recoup cot fro4 the in&et4ent 'ou,&e 4$"e in it. It $' to 4e 99 it "oen,t oun" (i2e he 0$
(e$&in3 $ (ot.
/. I 0$nt to 99 I "o 0$nt to $2 'ou $ coup(e of Euetion $1out 99 I "o 0$nt to $2 'ou to e)p($in 'our
$n0er 99 'ou t$rte" to t$(2 $1out ho0 $ conf(ict c$n "e&e(op o&er ti4e.
A. 7e.
/. C$n 'ou e)p($in th$t8
A. In the ene th$t 99 $ conf(ict of interet i not $ in3(e e&ent. It, not $n occurrence# it, not one
e)$4p(e of 99 of $ "eciion 1ein3 4$"e or c$re 1ein3 pro&i"e". It, $ et of circu4t$nce th$t "e&e(op
o&er $ perio" of ti4e. An" the 99 the perio" of ti4e &$rie# 1ut the et of circu4t$nce $re 99 $re uch
th$t the' 3et 99 the' 3et put in p($ce o&er $ perio" of ti4e.
/. An" i th$t 0h$t h$ppene" here8
A. 7e.
/. ;he 99 'ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $(o $1out the 0ritten $3ree4ent. I thin2 it, e)hi1it 333. -e
"on,t nee" to pu(( it 1$c2 up. Aut =ut for the recor"# 'ou re$" !. Jorrie, "epoition8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou re&ie0e" the e)hi1it to th$t "epoition th$t inc(u"e" the &erion of the $3ree4ent th$t 'ou
$0 i3ne" 1' Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. 7e.

/. An" $re 'ou $0$re of $n' effort $t $(( to en" "r$ft of th$t $3ree4ent to $n' of !ich$e( J$c2on,
repreent$ti&e 1efore the fin$( &erion 0$ ent to Dr. !urr$' for e)ecution8
A. No# I,4 not.
/. Di" 'ou 99 i it i4port$nt $t $(( for $n' of 'our opinion 0hether or not !r. J$c2on e&er i3ne" th$t
A. -e((# it $' to 4e th$t the $3ree4ent 0$ 1ein3 contructe" $n" ne3oti$te" 0ithout !r. J$c2on,
/. An" ho0 $1out 0hether !r. J$c2on i3ne" it or not8 I th$t i4port$nt to 'ou in $n' 0$'8
A. No.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue it 0$ effecti&e(' put in p($ce $n" the "octor 0$ en3$3e" 0hether !r. J$c2on i3ne" it or
/. ;he ($n3u$3e th$t 0e t$(2e" $1out in 99 in e)hi1it 99 in p$r$3r$ph C.1# the 99 in u1t$nce# the "octor
-i(( ren"er the er&ice re$on$1(' reEuete" 1' the pro"ucer# $re 'ou $0$re of e&i"ence fro4 'our
re&ie0 of the recor" for purpoe of conf(ict9of9interet $n$('i of AEG Aeh$&in3 conitent(' 0ith
th$t pro&iion8
A. 7e.
/. -hen8
A. ;he 99 I 1e(ie&e AEG In"ic$te" 99 or the recor" in"ic$te th$t
AEGActe" in $ 0$' th$t the' fe(t $ thou3h the' e4p(o'e" Dr. !urr$'.
/. 7ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $1out $ 4eetin3 $n" !r. +hi((ip, teti4on' $n" e4$i( re3$r"in3 the
99 the June 1:th e4$i( t$(2in3 $1out $n inter&ention 0ith $ "octor n$4e" Conr$" fro4 Ve3$. Do 'ou
re4e41er th$t8
A. 7e.
/. An" $t (e$t th$t e4$i( $' th$t !r. Gon3$0$re p$rticip$te" in the 4eetin3# "i"n,t he8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou re$" !r. Gon3$0$re, "epoition8
A. 7e.
/. -ere 'ou $1(e to "eter4ine $n'thin3 $t $(( fro4 !r. Gon3$0$re, "epoition $1out 0h$t he $i" $t
th$t 4eetin38

A. No.
/. -h'8
A. Fe "i"n,t rec$(( the 4eetin3.
/. So if 99 $n" th$t 0$ the 4eetin3 t0o "$' $fter the 5#e have to remind him 995
A. 7e.
/. 599 who he's working for5 e4$i(8
A. 7e.
/. I there 99 'ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $1out 0hether 99 I thin2 $1out !r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$(
tre$t4ent 0ith Dr. !urr$' in 200G# 200:# 200B. Do 'ou re4e41er th$t8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' infor4$tion $t $(( th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ to 1e p$i" or 0$ p$i" H150#000 4onth('
"urin3 th$t ti4e perio"8
A. No.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' e&i"ence $t $(( $1out 0hether 99 $n' $4ount 99 0ith"r$0n. 7ou 0ere $(o $2e"
o4e Euetion $1out the contr$ct in ter4 of (icenin3 of Dr. !urr$' in the %nite" Kin3"o4# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou peron$((' 2no0 0h$t 'ou," h$&e to "o to 1eco4e $ &iitin3 "octor in the unite" 2in3"o4 in
A. No# I "on,t.
/. Do 'ou h$&e $n' infor4$tion $t $(( fro4 re&ie0in3 the recor" 0hether AEG Di" $n'thin3 to chec2
to ee 0hether Dr. !urr$' h$" ou3ht 0h$te&er (icenin3 he nee"e" to to $ct $ $ ph'ici$n in the
unite" 2in3"o48
A. No.
/. An" there 0$ o4e ($n3u$3e in there th$t 'ou 0ere $2e" $1out 0hether the 99 $1out $n
in"e4nific$tion pro&iion# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" $ 'ou un"ert$n" it# i $n in"e4nific$tion pro&iion o4ethin3 0here one peron pro4ie to
p$' the other peron if the other peron 3et he(" (i$1(e for the firt peron, 4it$2e8
A. 7e@ 1ut I thin2 4$(pr$ctice inur$nce i 4ore to protect the "octor fro4 fin$nci$( (o.

/. <i3ht. I,4 t$(2in3 $1out the in"e4nit' pro&iion ri3ht no0. 7ou 0ere $2e" 0hether th$t 0$ o4e
e&i"ence of co4petence of Dr. !urr$'. Do 'ou re4e41er th$t8
A. 7e.
/. In 'our e)perience# Dr. !$theon# i $ peron 0ho h$ no $et# in f$ct# $ ne3$ti&e 4i((ion "o(($r
net 0orth 99 0ou(" th$t t'pe of $n in"e4nific$tion pro&iion pro&i"e $n' 3u$r$ntee $t $(( of
A. No.
/. -h'8
A. Aec$ue it 99 o4e1o"' 0ith th$t 2in" of "e1t 0ou(" not nece$ri(' 1e interete" in
/. Ae $1(e to in"e4nif' $n'1o"'8
A. Correct.
/. A(( ri3ht. Dr. !$theon# 'ou re&ie0e" u1t$nti$( cho($r(' ree$rch# $rtic(e# 0ritin3 $1out the
effect of conf(ict of interet to prep$re for 'our "epoition8
A. 7e.
/. An" $(o to prep$re for 'our teti4on' here to"$'8
A. 7e.
/. An" i there $n $ccepte" et of criteri$ 0ithin 'our 99 'our fie(" to "eter4ine the e&erit' of conf(ict
of interet8
A. I thin2 the one th$t, 4ot 0i"e(' $ccepte" i the Intitute of !e"icine.
/. -h$t, the Intitute of !e"icine8
A. It i one of the four 3o&ern4ent 1o"ie th$t $re p$rt of the N$tion$( Ac$"e4ie# 0hich i $n
or3$ni>$tion th$t 0$ put into effect 99 I 1e(ie&e it 0$ in 1BG3 1' +rei"ent A1r$h$4 Linco(n@ the
N$tion$( Ac$"e4ie of Science# En3ineerin3# $n" o forth. It, one of 99 it, one of four of thoe.
/. An" =ut in u44$r'# 0h$t $re the criteri$ th$t c$n 1e ue"# $pp(ie"# to "eter4ine ho0 e&ere $
conf(ict of interet 4$' 1e in the 4e"ic$( fie("8
A. -e((# the u44$r' 99 the Euetion $re re($te" to t0o p$rt. One i 0h$t i the ri2 of un"ue
inf(uence of $ econ"$r' interet# $n" the econ" i ho0 eriou cou(" the coneEuence 1e. An" the
Euetion th$t $re $2e" $re thin3 (i2e 0h$t i the &$(ue of the econ"$r' interet. So for 99 in thi c$e#
for e)$4p(e# it, H150#000# $n" the nee" for it. ;here $re Euetion $(o th$t $re re($te" to the &$(ue of
the pri4$r' interet@ in thi c$e# !r. J$c2on, he$(th# 0h$t i the e)tent of the "icretion or ($titu"e in

profeion$( =u"34ent 4$"e# 0h$t i the cope of the re($tionhip# ho0 4uch cont$ct $n" inter$ction i
there# 0h$t i the potenti$( erioune of the coneEuence. So 99
/. F$&e 'ou $tte4pte" to $pp(' thoe criteri$ to circu4t$nce in thi c$e8
A. 7e.
/. -h$t, 'our conc(uion8
A. ;h$t the conf(ict9of9interet en&iron4ent in thi c$e 0$ e&ere.
/. 7ou,&e 1een $ ph'ici$n for ho0 (on38
A. 35 'e$r.
/. 7ou,&e peci$(i>e" in reco3ni>in3 $n" 4iti3$tin3 conf(ict of interet for ho0 (on38
A. 20 'e$r.
/. Fo0 4$n' conf(ict9of9interet itu$tion h$&e 'ou een in 'our e)perience or re$" $1out in the
(iter$ture th$t 0ere $ e&ere $ the one preente" here8
A. None.
Mr. #loss$ 2han. !ou0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ &.a!. @ecross,
@ecross7examination ! -essica %teins$
/. Dr. !$theon# in 'our 'e$r of 0or2in3 in port 4e"icine# 'ou,&e ne&er $ctu$((' $""ree" conf(ict
of interet in the entert$in4ent in"utr'8
A. Correct.
/. An"# in f$ct# 'ou to(" 4e thi 4ornin3 $(( of 'our e)perience i "e$(in3 0ith thi in the port
A. 7e.
/. -here 'ou un"ert$n" the ro(e of the p($'er $n" the ri2 $n" prett' 4uch e&er'thin3 $1out it8
A. 7e.
/. An" in prep$rin3 for 'our "epoition $n" teti4on' in thi c$e# 'ou re$" $ppro)i4$te(' 15 or 20
$rtic(e# ri3ht8

A. 7e.
/. Aut none of thoe re($te" to the perfor4in3 $rt8
A. 7e.
/. None of thoe re($te" to the 4e"ic$( =ourn$( or 'te4 th$t h$&e 1een 1ui(t up $roun" the
perfor4in3 $rt in"utr'8
A. Correct.
/. Jut "i"n,t thin2 th$t th$t 0$ o4ethin3 th$t 'ou nee"e" to coni"er8
A. I fe(t $ thou3h the princip(e 0ere $pp(ic$1(e to $ &$riet' of circu4t$nce.
/. So th$t, no8
A th$t, $ no.
/. No0# coune( co&ere" $ nu41er of "ifferent thin3. I,4 3oin3 to tr' to hit o4e of the4 2in" of
Euic2('. So (et, t$rt 0ith Dr. 6in2e(tein. An" 'ou 4entione" th$t Dr. 6in2e(tein h$" 99 h$" 99 'ou
un"ertoo" he h$" $ con&er$tion 0ith !r. Gon3$0$re in the prin3 of 200D $1out 4$'1e =oinin3 the
tour# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" th$t !r. J$c2on 99 then Dr. 6in2e(tein $2e"# 'ou 2no0 99 $i" he 0ou(" "o it for HC0#000 $
4onth# $n" $2e" 0hether# 'ou 2no0# !r. Gon3$0$re 1e(ie&e" !r. J$c2on 0$ c(e$n $n" "ru39free#
A. 7e.
/. An" "o 'ou rec$(( !r. Gon3$0$re, repone8
A. I 1e(ie&e he $i" 99 I "on,t rec$(( e)$ct('.
/. Fe in"ic$te"# thou3h# to Dr. 6in2e(tein th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ c(e$n to the 1et of hi un"ert$n"in3#
A. 7e.
/. An" then# in f$ct# Dr. 6in2e(tein further tetifie" the re$on th$t he "i"n,t 3et the =o1 0$ 1ec$ue he
0$ to(" th$t !r. J$c2on 0$nte" to 1rin3 hi o0n peron$( ph'ici$n# ri3ht8
A. ;h$t, Dr. 6in2e(tein $'in3 th$t8
/. <i3ht.
A. 7e.

/. ;h$t, 0h$t 'ou un"ert$n"# th$t, 0h$t 'ou re&ie0e" to 1$e 'our opinion on8
A. 7e.
/. An" the recor" th$t 'ou re&ie0e" "oe in"ic$te th$t AEG Li&e $n" AEG Li&e peronne( 4$"e
e&er$( $tte4pt to "iu$"e !r. J$c2on fro4 1rin3in3 Dr. !urr$' on tour# ri3ht8
A. ;he recor" $' th$t8
/. ;he recor" th$t 'ou re&ie0e"# the "epoition.
A. 7e.
/. An" 'ou h$&e no re$on to 1e(ie&e th$t "i"n,t h$ppen8
A. Correct.
Ms. %teins$ ?o80 !ou tal.ed a moment a)o aout Mr. Gon)a8are and his email as o+ 77 8as it
ma! 8th0 * thin., Ma! Cth0 200D, "hat exhiit numer 8as that0 Mr. #loss,
Mr. #loss$ 1/5.
Ms. %teins$ * can;t rememer i+ it;s ma! Cth or ma! 8th.
Mr. Panish$ Ma! Cth.
/. No0# thi e4$i(# Dr. !$theon# t$(2 $1out ten "$' to 0in" "o0n Dr. !urr$', pr$ctice# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. No0# i it 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t !r. Gon3$0$re# $ concert pro4oter# 0ou(" h$&e $n'
un"ert$n"in3 $ to ho0 (on3 it cuto4$ri(' t$2e to 0in" "o0n $ 4e"ic$( pr$ctice8
A. Fe 4i3ht# he 4i3ht not. I "on,t thin2 I c$n co44ent.
/. ;here, no re$on th$t he 0ou(" 2no0 th$t# ri3ht8
A. 7e$h# he, not in the 4e"ic$( in"utr'# ri3ht.
/. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in3 $ to 0hether or not Dr. !urr$' 0$ $(re$"' prep$rin3 to 0in"
"o0n hi pr$ctice $n" 0in"in3 it "o0n 0e(( 1efore thi e4$i( 0$ ent8
A. No# I "on,t 2no0.
/. Aut 'ou "o 2no0 th$t he 0$ in Lo An3e(e $t (e$t three "$' $ 0ee2 in !r. J$c2on, ho4e
tre$tin3 hi4 $ 4onth 1efore thi e4$i( 0$ e&er ent# ri3ht8
A. 7e.

/. So he cou("n,t h$&e 1een fu(( ti4e $t hi pr$ctice in $nother t$te 1' th$t point $n'0$'# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. 7ou c$n t$2e th$t "o0n# p$4. No0# 'ou 0ere $(o $2e" $1out !r. Gon3$0$re, "epoition $n" the
f$ct th$t he cou("n,t rec$(( 0h$t h$ppene" $t $ 4eetin3 in 4i" June# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. 7ou h$&en,t re&ie0e" !r. Gon3$0$re, tri$( teti4on'8
A. Correct.
/. Aut 'ou "o re4e41er fro4 !r. Gon3$0$re, "epoition th$t !r. Gon3$0$re h$ $(0$' 1een $1(e
to rec$(( th$t he h$" e)$ct(' one 4eetin3 0ith Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Fe =ut h$n,t 1een $1(e to te(( 0hen it h$ppene"8
A. 7e.
/. Aut he, $(0$' rec$((e" one 4eetin3# $n" he, $(0$' 1een $1(e to te(( 3ener$((' 0h$t h$ppene" $t
th$t 4eetin3# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. O2$'. No0# 'ou $2e" 99 'ou 0ere $2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out 0h$t +($intiff, coune( 3$&e 'ou to
re&ie0# $n" 'ou t$(2e" $1out "epoition $n" "epoition e)hi1it. Di" the' $(o 3i&e 'ou $ ep$r$te
p$c2 of e4$i( to re&ie0# $ 4$(( one8
A. Not th$t I rec$((.
/. No0# 'ou 0ere $2e" $1out !r. J$c2on, in&o(&e4ent in ne3oti$tin3 0ith Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. It, 'our un"ert$n"in3 th$t !r. J$c2on initi$((' $2e" !r. Gon3$0$re to cont$ct Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. An" th$t !r. J$c2on pro&i"e" the H150#0009per94onth ter48
A. 7e.
/. Aut 'ou $i" 'ou "i"n,t other0ie un"ert$n" th$t $n' of !r. J$c2on, repreent$ti&e 0ere
in&o(&e" in the proce8

A. In the ne3oti$tion# 'e.
/. Jut in the ne3oti$tion8
A. Of the contr$ct.
/. Aut !r. J$c2on, 4$n$3er# !r. Di(eo# 0$ $0$re of Dr. !urr$'# ri3ht8
A. I 1e(ie&e o# 'e.
/. An" 'ou re&ie0e" hi "ec($r$tion8
A. !r. Di(eo,8
/. 7e.
A. I "on,t thin2 I,&e een $ "ec($r$tion fro4 !r. Di(eo.
/. So th$t 0$n,t o4ethin3 th$t +($intiff pro&i"e" 'ou 0ith8
A. I re4e41er $ &oice4$i(# 1ut not $ "ec($r$tion.
/. So 'ou "on,t 2no0 0hether or not !r. Di(eo h$" $(o $tte4pte" to t$(2 !r. J$c2on out of 1rin3in3
Dr. !urr$'# 1ut Dr. !urr$' h$" inite" th$t he 1e ret$ine" 99 th$t !r. J$c2on h$" inite" th$t he 1e
A. I "on,t 2no0.
/. An" 'ou 0ere $2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out conf(ict $n" e)p($ine" ho0 the inur$nce co4p$n' 99
inur$nce in"utr' i "ifferent th$n thi c$e. Aut there $re other conf(ict 0here "octor fee( preure#
A. 7e.
/. 6ro4 ph$r4$ceutic$( co4p$nie8
A. 7e.
/. 6ro4 p$rent $n" chi("ren th$t 4i3ht h$&e "ifferent interet8
A. 7e.
/. 7ou,re not tr'in3 to $' th$t "octor "on,t h$&e to 4$n$3e conf(ict of interet# ri3ht8
A. No# I,4 not.
/. An" o4eti4e the' h$&e 4ore he(p in 4$n$3in3 the4# $n" o4eti4e the' h$&e (e# ri3ht8

A. 7e.
/. Aut 0hether the' h$&e $ (ot of he(p in 4$n$3in3 the conf(ict or on(' $ (itt(e 1it or none $t $((# it,
ti(( their ethic$( "ut' to $ct in the interet of their p$tient# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. 100 percent of the ti4e# th$t, $(0$' the c$e8
A. 7e.
/. No0# (et, ee. -e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out thi i"e$ of 0hether or not 99 oh# of ho0 (on3 !r. J$c2on
0$ "eterior$tin3 for# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. 7ou,&e not een $n' e&i"ence th$t !r. J$c2on 0$ i(( 1e'on" $1out $ one9 to one9$n"9$9h$(f90ee2
perio" in 4i" June# ri3ht8
A. Correct.
/. An" 'ou 0ere $2e" $1out !r. Fou3"$h(, e4$i(# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. F$&e 'ou e&er re$" $ "epoition 1' !r. Fou3"$h(8
A. No# I "on,t 1e(ie&e I h$&e.
/. Do 'ou 2no0 0hether +($intiff e&er $2e" !r. Fou3"$h( 0h$t he 4e$nt 1' th$t e4$i(8
A. I "on,t 2no0.
/. -e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out the conf(ict of interet@ $n" 'ou 1e(ie&e th$t not0itht$n"in3 the f$ct th$t
Dr. !urr$' 0$ $(re$"' in !r. J$c2on, ho4e 4u(tip(e "$' $ 0ee2# $n" h$" $(re$"' or"ere" propofo(#
hi =u"34ent 0$ further co4pro4ie" 1' ne3oti$tin3 0ith AEG Li&e# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. An" 'our e&i"ence th$t th$t h$ppene" 0$ !r. Gon3$0$re, e4$i( fro4 4i" June $n" 2$i ch$e,
teti4on' th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ upet $fter $ 4eetin3# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aut# in f$ct# there, $ (ot of e&i"ence th$t Dr. !urr$' continue" to $ct in"epen"ent('# in,t there8
A. -h$t "oe th$t 4e$n8
/. -e((# he pu((e" !r. J$c2on out of $ rehe$r$(# ri3ht8

A. Once# 'e.
/. An" he 99 he puhe" 1$c2 0hen Kenn' Orte3$ $n" to(" hi4# 'ou 2no0# 5I,4 the peron in ch$r3e of
!r. J$c2on, 4e"ic$( c$re#5 ri3ht8
A. Fe "i$3ree" 0ith hi4# 'e.
/. An" if 'ou 0$nt to pu(( up e)hi1it 30C $3$in 99 thi i one 'ou (oo2e" $t thi 4ornin3. +u(( up the
4i""(e e4$i(# if 'ou 0ou(". Fe 0$# $t (e$t to o4e e)tent# in&o(&e" in cre$tin3 $ che"u(e th$t
0or2e" 1etter for !r. J$c2on8
A. Dr. !urr$' 0$8
/. -e((# I,4 $2in3 i th$t 'our re$" of thi e4$i(8 I "on,t 0$nt to put 0or" in 'our 4outh.
A. 50e h$&e $(( $3ree" on $ che"u(e th$t 0or2#5 'e.
/. An" 'ou re$" !r. Orte3$, teti4on' th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" $ctu$((' $2e" hi4 to 4$2e o4e
$"=ut4ent to the che"u(e8
A. 7e.
/. So in th$t int$nce# he 0$ $ctin3 contr$r' to 0h$t !r. Orte3$ 4i3ht 0$nt 1ut in hi p$tient,
interet# ri3ht8
A. 7e. I,4 not ure of the re$on for the reEuet# 1ut 'e.
/. An" then he $2e" !. Jorrie to 4o"if' the "r$ft contr$ct to 4$2e ure it 0$ c(e$r th$t he, on('
t$2in3 or"er fro4 !r. J$c2on# ri3ht8
A. 7e# 1ut he i3ne" one th$t 99
/. So he c(e$r(' "i"n,t proofre$" c$refu(('# ri3ht8
Mr. #loss$ &'ection. =e can;t speculate to proo+readin).
-ud)e$ &.a!. %ustained. 1r)umentati3e.
Ms. %teins$ 1ll ri)ht.
/. An" then 0e t$(2e" $ (itt(e 1it $1out AEG Li&e $2in3 for inur$nce recor"# $n" Dr. !urr$' $ctu$(('
refue" to pro&i"e thoe recor" 0ithout p$tient conent# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. So there $re $ nu41er of int$nce# $ren,t there# 0here Dr. !urr$' $t (e$t ee4e" to 1e $ctin3
in"epen"ent(' in the interet of hi p$tient8

A. In"epen"ent in the ene th$t he "i"n,t co4p(' 0ith outi"e preure8
/. -e((# he "i"n,t "o 0h$t the concert pro4oter or concert pro"ucer 0ou(" h$&e 0$nte"8
A. +erh$p# 'e.
/. An"# in f$ct# Dr. !urr$', fin$nci$( interet# 0e t$(2e" $1out# 0$ in 2eepin3 !r. J$c2on $ he$(th'
$ poi1(e o th$t he cou(" "o the entire tour# ri3ht8
A. 7e# to the e)tent poi1(e.
/. It 0$n,t in hi interet to 4$2e !r. J$c2on ic28
A. Correct.
/. It 0$n,t in hi interet not to 3et !r. J$c2on the he(p he nee"e" to 3et 1etter8
A. Correct.
/ it 0$ in hi fin$nci$( interet to 2eep hi4 he$(th'# 1ut $(o in hi profeion$( interet# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. Aec$ue not tre$tin3 !r. J$c2on proper(' cou(" hurt Dr. !urr$', profeion$( interet# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/. It 0$ in hi ethic$( interet8
A. I "on,t 2no0 0here thoe c$4e in# 1ut it 0$ "efinite(' in hi peron$( interet.
/. Fi peron$(# profeion$(# fin$nci$( interet 0$ $(( in 2eepin3 !r. J$c2on he$(th'8
A. 7e.
/ $n" he 0ent $3$int $(( of th$t 0hen he $"4initere" propofo( in the ho4e ettin38
A. 7e. Fe 0$ &er' conf(icte".
/. An" 'ou thin2 he "i" th$t 1ec$ue of AEG Li&e $n" not 1ec$ue !r. J$c2on $2e" hi4 to
$"4initer propofo(8
A. I thin2 AEG Li&e en$1(e" it# 'e.
/. An" 'ou thin2 th$t e&en thou3h propofo( 0$ or"ere" $ 4onth 1efore
AEGLi&e c$4e into the picture8
A. 7e.

Ms. %teins$ ?othin) +urther.
Eurther redirect examination ! "illiam #loss$
/ "o 'ou 2no0 if AEG Li&e e&er ou3ht to Euetion !r. Fou3"$h( $1out 0h$t he 4e$nt 1' ei3ht
0ee2 $n" "eterior$tion8
A. No# I 99 I h$&en,t een $n' e&i"ence.
/. F$&e 'ou een $n' e&i"ence th$t 99 either here in court to"$'# or $t 'our "epoition# or $n' other
ti4e# 0here $n'1o"' fro4 AEG Li&e e)pree" "i$3ree4ent 0ith !r. Fou3"$h(# or $i"# 5-h$t $re
'ou t$(2in3 $1out8 -h$t "ec(ine85
A. No.
/. An" "epite 99 Dr. !urr$' h$" $ "ut' 99 h$" $ 99 too2 $n o$th to ren"er 3oo" 4e"ic$( c$re# ri3ht8
A. <i3ht.
/. +reu4$1(' 0hen he 0$ 99 0h$te&er h$ppen 0hen 'ou,re $"4itte" to 1e $ "octor# ri3ht8
A. 7e.
/ ho0 i it th$t conf(ict of interet c$ue peop(e to &io($te th$t o$th8
A. It ero"e their =u"34ent unconciou('# in $ 0$' the',re not $0$re of# 0here the' "e&e(op $ 1i$ $n"
4$2e "eciion th$t $((o0 the4 to ee the conc(uion the' 0$nt to re$". It h$ppen in $ 0$' 'ou c$n,t
nece$ri(' "etect in 'oure(f# 1ut c$n 1e een fro4 the outi"e.
/. An" $t the ti4e Dr. !urr$' $i" to Kenn' Orte3$ on June 20th# 5St$' out of it. I,&e 3ot it 995 $t th$t
ti4e# ho0 e&ere 0$ the conf(ict of interet th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ oper$tin3 un"er8
A. It 0$ e&ere.
/. 7ou thin2 th$t (i2e(' (e" to u1t$n"$r" 4e"ic$( c$re8
A. 7e# I "o.
/. An" 'ou 0ere $2e" o4e Euetion $1out 0hether "octor c$n h$&e he(p in cert$in circu4t$nce
4$n$3in3 conf(ict8
A. 7e.
/. Li2e th$t, 0h$t 'ou "o $t St$nfor"# 'ou et up procee $n" proce"ure to he(p 4$n$3e conf(ict8
A. 7e.
/. An" the inur$nce co4p$nie c$n he(p 4$n$3e conf(ict 0ith their co44ittee8

A. 7e.
/. Do 'ou ee $n' e&i"ence $t $(( th$t Dr. !urr$' 0$ 3i&en $n' 2in" of 4ech$ni4 or 99 or tructure
to he(p 4$n$3e the conf(ict8
A. No# I "on,t.
/. In f$ct# "o 'ou ee e&i"ence 0hether AEG !$"e the conf(ict 1etter or 4$"e the conf(ict 0ore8
A. ;he' 4$"e the conf(ict 0ore.
Mr. #loss$ 2han. !ou0 !our honor.
Ms. %teins$ ?othin) +urther0 !our honor.
-ud)e$ &.a!. 2han. !ou. 5ou ma! step do8n.
2he 8itness$ 2han. !ou.
-ud)e$ "ere 8e )oin) to end at F$00 toda!0 or do 8e ha3e somethin) else to do,
Mr. Panish$ "ell0 8e ha3e an hour depo> ut * 8ould plead 8ith 'ud)e0 i+ possile0 that 8e could
stop ten minutes earl!0 i+ that;s o.a!0 i+ e3er!one is o.a! 8ith that. #ut i+ 8e need to )o ten
minutes0 8e can pla! the depo +or ten minutes.
-ud)e$ &.a!. 2omorro8 at D$F5. 2han. !ou. =a3e a )ood e3enin).
9the +ollo8in) proceedin)s 8ere heard in open court0 outside the presence o+ the 'ur!:$
-ud)e$ O2$'. So to4orro0 'ou,re p($'in3 "epoition8
Mr. Panish$ No. C$((in3 0itnee firt.
-ud)e$ O2$'. A(( ri3ht. Do 'ou h$&e $n'thin3 'ou nee" 4e to 0or2 on. -e h$&e $ 4otion concernin3
!r. Anchut># I thin2# 1ut 0h$t $1out 99
Mr. Panish$ I "on,t thin2 there, $n' 99 oh# !r. ;$'(or# too# there, $ 4otion on# the teti4on' of !r.
;$'(or. I thin2 e&er'one h$ fi(e" 1rief on th$t.
Ms. %teins$ I thin2 1oth of thoe $re fu((' 1riefe".
Mr. Panish$ So thoe t0o iue. Aut 0e," r$ther 99 ince i thin2 0e h$&e (i&e 0itnee to4orro0# 0e
"on,t nee" to 0$te ti4e 99 or pen" ti4e "oin3 th$t to4orro0. An" I 2no0 !. C$h$n h$ $nother
potenti$( "epo iue# $n" her $n" I =ut "icue" th$t# $n" 0e fi3ure" ince 0e 0eren,t 3oin3 to 3et to
th$t teti4on'# 4ot (i2e(' 0e "i"n,t nee" to pen" the ti4e. ;o4orro0# if 0e 3et "one# $t the en" of the
"$'# 0e c$n poi1(' "icu the "epo iue. !. C$h$n? <i3ht. If 0e 0ere to finih $ fe0 4inute e$r('

to4orro0 0ith teti4on'# 0e c$n h$n"(e $n' $r3u4ent for th$t@ 1ut 0e "on,t 0$nt to "e($' (i&e
teti4on' to4orro0. It, the re4$inin3 iue on Dr. 6in2e(tein re3$r"in3 the "octor forec$t iue.
-e,re ti(( t$(2in3 on th$t. -ith repect to !r. Lei0e2e# 0e,re $(( et# 0e "on,t nee" to $r3ue on th$t.
Mr. Panish$ So if for o4e re$on 0e finih $n hour e$r('# then 0e h$&e th$t to "o to 4$2e up the ti4e.
I "on,t thin2 it 0i(( h$ppen# 1ut 0e,re prep$re" to "o th$t. So I thin2 0e,(( h$&e enou3h# no pro1(e4 to
fi(( the "$'.
-ud)e$ O2$'. An" 0ho $re 'ou c$((in3 to4orro08
Mr. Panish$ +rince !ich$e( J$c2on firt# $n" t$= J$c2on.
Mr. #o!le$ An" then $(o perh$p !r. Lei0e2e 1' &i"eo# if nece$r'# "epen"in3 on the ti4e.
-ud)e$ A(( ri3ht. ;h$n2 'ou.
Mr. Panish$ An"# $(o# I to(" the4 there, $nother one (ine" up# t.J.@ 1ut I "on,t thin2 0e,(( 3et to hi4.
!r. +utn$4? -e 0ere to(" th$t 0$ thur"$'.
Mr. #o!le$ ;o 1e c(e$r# 'our honor# 0e,re c$((in3 prince J$c2on# !ich$e(, o("er on# firt. I,4 orr'.
Mr. Panish$ -hich 0ou(" 'ou (i2e8
Ms. %teins$ I "on,t c$re# 1ut 0e hou(" 2no0 0ho, 99
Mr. Panish$ ;h$t, f$ir enou3h. ;h$t, f$ir# $n" 0e 0i(( te(( 'ou 0hen 0e 3o outi"e 0ho 0i(( 1e
econ" if 0e 3et to th$t# $n" 0ho 0i(( 1e thir" if 0e 3et to th$t.
Mr. Putnam$ -e $(re$"' 2no0 1ec$ue 'ou 3$&e u $ CB9hour notice.
Mr. Panish$ Aut I =ut 0$nt to 4$2e it 2no0n the n$4e# th$t the',re co4in3 in.
Mr. Putnam$ ;he',re co4in3 on t0o "ifferent "$'# 'ou,&e $(re$"' to(" u. Ke&in $(re$"' to(" u th$t.
Mr. Panish$ If 0e finih &er' f$t# I 0$nte" to (et 'ou 2no0. -e pro1$1(' 0on,t# it h$ 'et to h$ppen in
the tri$(. Aut =ut to 1e e)tr$ c$utiou# the',(( 1e here.
-ud)e$ A(( ri3ht. ;h$n2 'ou.
9court ad'ourned to 8ednesda!0 -une 2C0 20130 at D$F5 am:

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