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To Tie or Untie Solar

To Tie or Untie Solar

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The costs and dangers of a Grid Tie Inverter
The costs and dangers of a Grid Tie Inverter

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Published by: pearsch on Nov 25, 2013
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01/06/2014

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TO TIE OR UNTIE?

24NOV2013, edited by PEARSCH, IAeSR.

Re: Clarian plug-in solar JUL2006 I am not su e t!e "as "ene ato s a e a "ood #om$a ison... %!e t ans&e s'it#!, at (east, usua((y e)ui es a (i#ensed e(e#t i#ian. And in ou a ea, a &i*ed "enset 'ou(d +e y (i,e(y e)ui e t!e same (o#a( bui(din" $e mits. Not a sim$(e do-it-you se(& $ o.e#t. A(so, at (east in Ca(i&o nia, t!e e(e#t i# " id is !ea+i(y e"u(ated by t!e Ca(i&o nia Pub(i# /ti(ity Commission. And, as su#!, t!e uti(ity !as t!e i"!t to ,no' and e"u(ate t!e #onne#tion o& any $o'e "ene ation e)ui$ment to t!ei #ustome s. And, in &a#t, i& I #!oose to 0&o e*am$(e1 ta,e my !ome o&& t!e uti(ity " id and un my e(e#t i# $o'e & om my o'n 2e o $oint $o'e ea#to 0o natu a( "as "ene ato 3tu bine #o-"ene ato &o t!ose t!at a e not into s#ien#e &i#tion 1--%!e uti(ity !as t!e i"!t to #!a "e me &o (ea+in" t!e " id 0t!e uti(ity made in& ast u#tu e in+estments based on t!e $ omise to (ende s3in+esto s t!at my !ome 'ou(d be on t!e " id &o t!e ne*t 204 yea s and !a+e t!e i"!t to be $ ote#ted a"ainst my (ea+in"1. %!ese se$a ation #!a "es !a+e been bi" issues &o (a "e a" i#u(tu a( and #omme #ia( #om$anies t!at 'anted to #o-"ene ate $o'e & om t!ei o'n 'aste and su#!. It may not be 5&ai 5--but it is t!e (a' 0at (east in Ca(i&o nia1. %!e &a#t 'e a e a((o'ed to add so(a 6% to ou !omes 'it!out $ayin" separation/stranding !arges is a tem$o a y e*#e$tion ' itten &o +a ious &o ms o& sma(( so(a systems. -7i(( ------------------------------------Re: Clarian plug-in solar JUL2006 7ut #o e#t me i& I8m ' on", but t!e 9ede a( in#enti+e 'on8t a$$(y to a tem$o a y system, su#! as 'ou(d be $(u""ed into an out(et. And state in#enti+es 'ou(dn8t a$$(y un(ess a system 'as (e"a((y insta((ed, meanin" NEC-#om$(iant: ------------------------------------Re: Clarian plug-in solar JUL2006 A $(u" in ty$e system 'it!out net mete in" may e+en #!a "e you &o t!e e*t a ;<H $ odu#ed. <!en my PV system 'as &i st insta((ed t!e #ont a#to tu ned it on 'it!out t!e net mete and (e&t it on, '!en $o'e 'as $ odu#ed my mete s$un e+en &aste t!an be&o e addin" to my #onsum$tion instead on subt a#tin". ------------------------------------Re: Clarian plug-in solar JUL2006 C(a ian seems to be on a bi" PR $us! - must be t yin" to im$ ess a $otentia( in+esto o somet!in" o& t!at natu e. 11 %!e a ti#(e must !a+e been a $ ess e(ease e+e yone do#to ed u$ &o t!ei o'n e(ease. 21 /ni&o m(y t!e ' ite s didn8t !a+e any idea '!at t!ey 'e e ' itin" about 31 C(a ian !as no PV $ odu#ts on t!e ma ,et at t!is time - t!ey say anot!e #ou$(e o& yea s 41 %!ey !a+e no /= a$$ o+a( &o su#! a unit and /= a$$ o+a( 1>>1 is e)ui ed. %!e #om$onent /= #e ti&i#ation is meanin"(ess ?1 No 'ay t!ey e+e 'i(( "et a$$ o+a( &o many easons - t!e main bein" t!at t!e in+e te inte na( dis#onne#t is not "oin" to be a##e$ted by t!e uti(ities &o sa&ety easons - t!e e must be 20 di&&e ent easons

@1 %!is 8$i#, it u$ and "o8 #on#e$t sounds neat but is &a & om $ a#ti#a(. %!e enti e #on#e$t is so " een it stin,s - " eens #an un a ound !a$$y but !a+e abso(ute(y not!in". I be(ie+e it is a s!yste attem$t to im$ ess someone '!ose $o#,ets C(a ian is t yin" to "et into. ------------------------------------Re: "rid Tie #i ro In$erter t!at plugs into !ouse %C outlet&&& %!e e a e se+e a( t!in"s to #onside !e eA Pe !a$s !e bi(( is on(y a (itt(e (o'e t!an you s be#ause s!e uses a =O% mo e e(e#t i#ity t!an you do 0I don8t ,no' t!is, it8s .ust a $ossibi(ity. As t!ey say t!e &i st ste$ in "oin" so(a is to edu#e you $o'e #onsum$tion, many $eo$(e .ust don8t "et t!at. %!e e a e some t!in"s you sti(( !a+e to $ay &o e+en 'it! net mete in". Bou sti(( !a+e to $ay t!e &ee &o t!e mete and you sti(( !a+e to $ay t!e %a*es and su #!a "es &o ene "y used at ni"!t, e+en i& it8s ene "y you ban,ed du in" t!e day. A #ou$(e o& t!ese &ees 0RES% &o e*am$(e1 '!i(e based on a $e #enta"e o& ene "y use a e #a$$ed at a (o' (e+e(, my RES% &ee d o$$ed & om C3.4D 0#a$$ed1 to about C3 'inte E C2.2? summe '!en I insta((ed my a ay. So basi#a((y t!e e a e about C20-C2? 'o t! o& &ees you !a+e to $ay e+en i& you "ene ate a(( o& you o'n $o'e %!e SSVEC Net mete in" &ee is on(y C2.>0, not a (ot o& money #onside in" !o' mu#! time and money t!ey !a+e s$ent e$ o" ammin" t!ei bi((in" system to a((o' net mete in". %!ey !a+e on(y been doin" Net mete in" &o a (itt(e o+e a yea and don8t !a+e many net mete in" #ustome s. Ho'e+e , it (oo,s (i,e t!ey !a+e 'o ,ed most o& t!e bu"s out no'. I (i+e out in He e&o d and my 3.4?,' a ay mounted on t a#,e s $ odu#es mo e $o'e t!an I use i"!t no'. At t!is time o& yea I on(y use about 4D0-?00 ,'! a mont! and my a ay $ odu#es about >00 ,'! a mont! 0t!is time o& yea 1. Sin#e Se$tembe t!e on(y mont! I used mo e t!an I $ odu#ed 'as Fe#embe and t!at 'as on(y 4,'! e*t a. <it! net mete in" I .ust $u((ed t!at out o& t!e @00 ,'! I !ad ban,ed. No' t!e e a e a #ou$(e 'ays you #an 2e o out you bi((. Bou #an insta(( an a ay t!at is u$ to 2?G (a "e t!an you need. On an annua( basis, i& you $us! mo e ,'! to t!e " id t!at you $u((, SSVEC 'i(( $ay you about 4 #ents $e ,'! &o t!e su $(us. %!e isin" #osts o& diese( 'i(( d i+e u$ t!e de(i+e ed #osts o& #oa( soon and sin#e a(( o& ou $o'e is $ odu#ed by a #oa( bu nin" $o'e $(ant u$ in %u#son, t!at means t!ey 'i(( sta t ta#,in" t!e 5<!o(e Sa(e Cost Ad.ustment5 onto ou bi((s soon. A #ou$(e yea s a"o t!at #ost ad.uste made u$ a(most ?0G o& my bi((. I& you $ odu#e mo e $o'e t!an you use '!en t!e 5<!o(e Sa(e Cost Ad.ustment5 is in e&&e#t, you "et a CREFI% &o t!at instead o& a #!a "e. 9ina((y i& you 'ant to insta(( so(a , SSVEC #u ent(y !as about a 4 to ? yea 'aitin" (ist &o t!e ?0G ebate. Ho'e+e t!ey a(so o&&e anot!e $ o" am t!at not many $eo$(e ,no' about o a e ta,in" ad+anta"e o& #a((ed a 5Pe &o man#e 7ased In#enti+e5 t!at #an $ay ba#, u$ to @0G o& you #osts, t!e P7I is a+ai(ab(e NO<, no 'aitin" and P7I #ustome s "et $aid 9IRS%, t!e ?0G ebates a e on(y a+ai(ab(e i& t!e money !asn8t been s$ent on P7I. %!e $ ob(em is t!at t!e P7I $ays ba#, mont!(y in sma(( amounts o+e 10-20 yea s de$endin" on '!i#! $ o" am you #!ose.
9i st 1 23 4 ? =ast

I #!ose t!e 1? yea $ o" am so I ea n 1H.> #ents $e ,'! t!at my a ay $ odu#es $ odu#e. It doesn8t matte '!et!e I used t!is $o'e immediate(y o e*$o t it to t!e " id, I "et $aid &o e+e y ,'! $ odu#ed. %!ey !a+e to insta(( a se#ond mete .ust to measu e you a ays out$ut and o i"ina((y t!ey 'e e sayin" t!at t!ey 'ou(d !a+e to #!a "e &o t!e se#ond mete , but I 'as on(y #!a "ed on#e on t!e mont! t!ey insta((ed it. Iy P7I $ayment is about C130 a mont!, t!ey automati#a((y subt a#t any &ees I o'e 0basi# mete &ee, net mete in" &ee, ta*es and ta i&s, et#.1 and i& t!e e is at (east C100 (e&t o+e t!ey #ut me a #!e#,. Ot!e 'ise t!ey ban, it and 'ait unti( t!e ne*t mont!. I !a+en8t $aid an e(e#t i# bi(( sin#e my a ay 'ent on(y and most mont!s I "et a C100 #!e#,, o e+e y t'o mont!s "et a C1H0-C1D0 #!e#,. ' P e+ious %! ead J Ne*t %! ead ( ------------------------------------Se+e a( t!in"s... 1. A 148 * 148 a ay 'ou(d be about 12 PV $ane(s, o on t!e o de o& 2.> ,'. Su#! an a ay 'ou(d "ene ate somet!in" (i,e C400 'o t! o& e(e#t i#ity $e yea , o ou"!(y C3?3mont!. It is be(ie+eab(e t!at a&te dedu#tin" any SSEVC se +i#e &ee, t!at !e a ay 'ou(d yie(d on(y a C20303mont! # edit...es$e#ia((y i& it 'e e a 'inte mont! bi(( t!at s!e s!o'ed you. Fu in" 'inte , my PV a ay $ odu#es !a(& as mu#! as it $ odu#es in summe . 2. It is a(so $ossib(e t!at !e PV a ay is not $ odu#in" as mu#! as t!eo eti#a((y $ossib(e. S!e mi"!t !a+e s!adin" issues, o $e !a$s !e a ay is not $e &e#t(y sout! &a#in". Eit!e o& t!e (atte t'o issues #an edu#e !a +est by 10-20G. 3. Bou !ouse and !e !ouse may !a+e enti e(y di&&e ent $o'e #onsum$tion. %!at means t!at !e bi(( bein" 5on(y5 C20 (ess t!an you s may be out o& #onte*t. 9o e*am$(e, $ io to my PV a ay8s insta((ation, my ne*t doo nei"!bo 8s bi(( 'as doub(e my o'n, e+en t!ou"! 'e a e in (i,e !ouses. %!is 'as be#ause I did a (ot o& #onse +ation measu es and !e !as done none. Bou s!ou(d as, to see !e bi((s be&o e s!e insta((ed t!e PV a ay, &o t ue a$$(es to a$$(es. 4. =ast(y, t!e e a e moneta y in#enti+es ot!e t!an t!e mont!(y sa+in"s t!at you may not be a'a e o&. %!ese #ou(d in#(ude t!e 9ede a( ta* # edit, a #as! ebate & om t!e (o#a( uti(ity, and #as! "ene ated & om sa(es o& so(a ene'ab(e ene "y # edits 0)RECs1. In my o'n #ase, su#! sou #es e$ esent 30K t!e +a(ue o& my annua( $o'e $ odu#tion. --Lo!n ------------------------------------See atta#!ed &o massi+eM Rea((y t!e i"!t 'ay to "o about an in# ementa( add system is to $u(( t!e $e mits, 'i e t!e system &o &ina( si2in", use mi# o in+e te s and ta(, to t!e #ode "uys about '!at t!ey 'i(( e)ui e to add to t!at system. None o& t!at is #!ea$, t!e #ode "uys may e)ui e a ne' $e mit at e+e y add o& $ane(s3in+e te s and t!at is an additiona( e*$ense you 'i(( !a+e to dea( 'it!. One o& t!e $ ob(ems 'it! 5$(u"-in5 in+e te s is t!at t!ey #an o+e (oad t!e (ine t!ey a e atta#!ed to. Lust t!in, o& it t!is 'ay, 1? am$ b ea,e #an $ass in 1? am$s on a 14 "au"e 'i e to t!e #i #uit, t!en you add a $(u" in in+e te to t!e (ine say anot!e 1? am$s, no' you !a+e t!e $otentia( to (oad a 14 "au"e 'i e ated &o 1? am$s u$ to 30 am$s 'it!out a b ea,e t i$. Su e(y t!at is a $otentia( &i e & om an

o+e !eated 14 "au"e 'i es. I& a &i e did !a$$en, you insu an#e #om$any #ou(d deny you #(aim be#ause o& you a#tions. ------------------------------------Re: *C du+p loads ,or grid-tied in$erters <!at Ii,e said. <ind must !a+e a di+e sion (oad, so(a doesn8t need it. I #an 'e(( unde stand you desi e to !a +est e+e y (ast $otentia( <att, but t!e e is no $ a#ti#a( 'ay o& doin" t!is 'it! a " id-tie set-u$ as t!e e8s no stand-a(one #!a "e #ont o((e . A !yb id system su#! as t!e Kant e* K< se ies 'o ,s somet!in" a(on" t!ese (ines, a(t!ou"! it #!a "es t!e batte ies &i st and t!en se((s to " id. Pe !a$s t!e ne' !i"! Vo(ta"e #!a "e #ont o((e s .ust bein" int odu#ed may o&&e a $otentia( so(ution: %!is is '!y t!e $ane(3in+e te mat#!-u$ is based on a+e a"e $otentia( out$ut. Sometimes t!e $ane(s 'i(( $ut out ma*imum - 100G o e+en mo e o& t!ei 5name$(ate5 atin". /sua((y it8s (ess, es$e#ia((y in summe '!en it8s !otte 0$ane( e&&i#ien#y #an d o$ d asti#a((y1. Run t!e PV <atts $ o" am !tt$A33 ed#.n e(."o+3so(a 3#a(#u(at...A%%S3+e sion13 &o t!e $ o$osed set-u$ and t y a #ou$(e di&&e ent #on&i"u ations to see .ust !o' mu#! 5su $(us5 $o'e you8 e (i,e(y to miss out on. 9ou 1>? <att $ane(s, O7 IK@0, 232 Am$ ! s, O7 3?24, Honda eu2000. O!m8s =a'A Am$s N Vo(ts 3 O!ms Po'e 9o mu(aA <atts N Vo(ts O Am$s -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LIN-):
!tt$A33'''.'ind-sun.#om39o umV73s!o't! ead.$!$:tNHD>> %!e #om$any (isted in t!at t! ead, C(a ian, at t!e time 'as ta "etin" ea (y 2011 to e(ease a $ odu#t. A +isit to t!ei 'ebsite s!o's no u$dates sin#e initia( ma ,etin" s$(as! in 2010. I 'ou(d assume t!at t!at de(ay attests to t!e di&&i#u(ty o& "ettin" /= a$$ o+a( and some ,ind o& "ene i# a$$ o+a( to $(u" into t!e " id 'it!out uti(ities8 #onsent. !tt$A33'''.#(a iante#!no(o"ies.#om3m...(a P$o'e .!tm( !tt$A33'''.&o bes.#om3201030H31H3#(a... tne Nya!ooti* <!en t!e 6RIF "oes do'n. Iy %EF ?000 system 1? S!a $ 23?' N/-/23?93 PV modu(es and 1? En$!ase I1D0->2-240 Ii# oin+e te s. 1? CS@P-230P on 2 /R%9-120s and one !ome made t a#,e <it! En$!ase in+e te s !tt$A33en(i"!ten.en$!aseene "y.#om3$...stems3!B><??3@ !tt$A33'''." een$o'e ta(,.o "3s!o't! ead.$!$:tN11>02 !tt$A33'''.na+it on.o ".u,3&o um3ind...,11>D0.1?.!tm( !tt$A33'''.na+it on.o ".u,3&o um3ind...i#,D0>2.0.!tm( http://www.cleanenergystates.org/Cas...itc-report.pdf Is so(a i"!t &o you bui(din": <!at $e mits a e e)ui ed to insta(( so(a $ane(s:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Resour es . In enti$es ,or )olar • Sma tSo(a P o" am $ o+ides & ee indi+idua(i2ed te#!ni#a( assistan#e and on(ine assessments o& so(a $otentia( &o 7e ,e(ey esidents and businesses. A(so #!e#, out t!e so(a ma$ to see a(( t!e so(a insta((ations in 7e ,e(ey. • Ca(i&o nia So(a Initiati+e is a ebate $ o" am. %!e 'ebsite a(so in#(udes a (ist o& e"iste ed so(a e(e#t i#ity #ont a#to s, insta((e s and etai(e s. 7e su e to "et at (east t! ee bids &o you $ o.e#t. • So(a PV System Submitta( Re)ui ements detai(s '!at is needed to obtain City o& 7e ,e(ey $e mits &o so(a PV insta((ations. As a membe o& t!e East 7ay 6 een Co ido , t!e City o& 7e ,e(ey a(so a##e$ts t!e standa di2ed $(ans and #!e#,(ists & om t!e 6 een Co ido in (ieu o& City $e mit submitta( e)ui ements &o esidentia( so(a PV insta((ations. • %!e 6 een Co ido 8s st u#tu a( en"inee in" "uide(ines o&&e en"inee in" tab(es &o oo& a&te s$ans and ot!e te#!ni#a( "uidan#e t!at may be !e($&u( &o $(annin" a esidentia( so(a PV insta((ation • Fatabase o& State In#enti+es &o Rene'ab(es and E&&i#ien#y (ists in&o mation on state, (o#a(, uti(ity, and &ede a( in#enti+es t!at $ omote ene'ab(e ene "y and ene "y e&&i#ien#y. 9o e*am$(e, in&o mation on t!e #u ent &ede a( ta* # edit is a+ai(ab(e at Residentia( Rene'ab(e Ene "y %a* C edit. • Ca(i&o nia 9IRS% $ o+ides so(a &inan#in" &o #omme #ia( and mu(ti&ami(y bui(din"s. • So(a Readiness S$e#i&i#ations detai(s e)ui ements &o ne' #onst u#tion. • So(a %!e ma( in&o mation on $e mit e)ui ements &o insta((in" so(a t!e ma( !ot 'ate .

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