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BHO Extraction
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLC.
Butane Honey Oil, or BHO, is the essential oil from the cannabis plant, extracted using n-
Butane as a solvent. If it is extracted from fresh material, it is a Concrete, and if from cured
material, it is an Oleoresin. A concrete or an oleoresin that has been winterized to remove
the waxes, lipids, and fats, is known as an Absolute.
Butane Honey Oil extraction refers to the method used to extract the essential oils from
cannabis, and there are multiple theories on the best way to accomplish this, as well as what
material is best to use.
Perhaps the first question is why use a BHOtechnique to extract the resins, instead of just
boiling the material in alcohol to get the greatest amount of extracted material?
The answer to that is that because butane is relatively non polar, it doesnt extract the water
solubles like chlorophyll and plant alkaloids. Butane produces one of the cleanest
extractions, albeit typically at a lower yield than polar alcohol.
On average we have extracted about 18%oil by weight from bud, but as low as 5.7 %absolute
and as high as 25 absolute%.
The first wash will usually extract 7 5 to 80%, leaving the balance for the second after
repacking the column. The second extraction will be more sedative and less heady. If you
use a hand microscope, you can easily see when the trichome heads are gone and the stalks
look like wet fur.
Weve only tried a few processes here at the pharm, so I will cover only simple flow through
columns, a thermos bottle, a pressurized system, and a closed loop one.
We currently use a closed loop system for BHO, and as I am covering that process on a
separate thread named The Terpenator, where I will detail building our second generation
automated system.
Prior to using our DIY closed loop system, we did our BHOextractions using single pass flow
through packed columns, and experimented with a thermos and a simple pressurized system
to soak at ambient temperature. I will cover simple columns and thermos bottles
separately, as the techniques are different and I need to make some more pictures for the
latter.
Before we discuss how to extract the essential oils from cannabis, let us talk about the plant
material to be used. That immediately brings to mind the qualifying question, What do you
want to use it for?
Oil that is to be vaporized, is normally treated differently than oil that is used orally or
topically, because it doesnt need to be decarboxylated. For cannabis concentrates to be
orally and topically active, it does require that the THCA and CBDA be converted to THC and
CBD, by a heating or drying process. I will cover that issue under a separate thread on
Decarboxylation, so as to not clutter this post.
Terpenes:
Besides the cannabinoids, which are Di-Terpene alcohols and di-alcohols (diol), there are
also other terpenes in cannabis essential oils, which add to its smell, flavor, and medicinal
entourage effect. Some of these terpenes are highly aromatic alcohols, phenols, ketones,
aldehydes, ethers, and esters, which are aromatic because they freely give off molecules at
even ambient temperatures.
Heating the plant material or the oil to decarboxylation temperatures will evaporate off
most of these smaller aromatic Mono-Terpene and Sesqui-Terpene molecules, before the
larger and heavier cannabis Di-Terpenes are affected. Decarboxylated oil is smoother to the
taste, but basically tastes like hash, with the floral undertones gone.
Gone also are the medicinal and entourage effects from those terpenes. The price we pay for
decarboxylation, so we shouldnt decarboxylate casually, and should first consider the end
use before picking the process.
One of our process limitations, is that though non polar, n-butane has slight water
solubility. At 20C/68F, it is only 0.0325 percent by vol/vol, but not zero and is still
enough to pickup undesirable water solubles. 1 liter, or 1000 ml X0.0325 = 32.5 ml of
water.
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With water, comes water solubles, which includes chlorophyll and plant alkaloids, that
detract from the taste, so the dance is to maintain the volatile terpenes, while studiously
avoiding the water solubles.
Freezing the water is one method that works well, but it is important that the material be dry
when it was frozen and that it is not exposed to high humidity while frozen, or ice will form
over the trichomes, preventing their extraction.
Another method is to simply remove most of the water. This will produce pristine
extractions, but doesnt preserve the terpenes. If the material is to be decarboxylated
anyway, that is of little concern, because we will lose them anyway.
We also have the issue of purging out the remaining butane, while preserving the terpenes.
Again, there are a number of ways to do that, but I will address only a few of the ways that
have worked for us here. Those are light heat, high heat, and thin film vacuum.
So, besides decarboxylation, what are some of the things to consider selecting a process and
how should the plant material be prepared?
In our experience, for best flavor and taste, freshest material works best, whether it is fresh
frozen material or dried. Older cured material loses the nuances of the floral undertones and
just tastes like hash. That means that the degree of drying and curing is also critical, if your
goal is to maintain maximum terpene content.
Oil from buds is tastier than oil from even sugar trim, because most of the terpenes are
produced by the buds, and that is where they are the most plentiful. Tasty is usually not a
word used to describe oil from fan leaves or stems, though effective may be.
The absolutely most flavorful BHOextract to me personally and to the test panels thus far, is
fresh picked buds, that are immediately frozen to tie up the water, and extracted while still
frozen. It produces an oil that abounds in whimsical flavors darting about and the word
most often used to describe it by panel members, was the word fresh.
Next most flavorful, from a BHOstandpoint, is material that has only been cured 5 to 7 days,
and is at the small stem snap stage, where you might jar it if you were curing it to smoke.
Part of the formula is of course the degree and methods used to purge out the remaining
butane. While there are a number of ways to do that as well, I will address only a few of the
ways that have worked for us here. Those methods are low heat, high heat, and thin film
vacuum.
Butane supply:
Lastly, selecting a suitable butane source is a key step, in that all butane sources arent
created equal. n-Butane (normal butane) is a simple alkane, with four carbon atoms linked
together in a row, with the remaining possible carbon bonding sites taken up by hydrogen
atoms.
The simple alkanes all are gaseous at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. They are
removed from crude oil before it is further processed, by simple heating. The simplest is
Methane, which is only on carbon and four hydrogen atoms, followed by Ethane with two
carbons, Propane with three, and Butane with the four.
Pentane is the next simple alkane, the first to be liquid at room temperature and the first to
have zero water solubility. From Pentane on, the simple alkanes are named from the Greek
alphabet, and are Hexane, Heptane, Octane, etc, on through the light naphthas, oils, waxes,
and asphalts.
The formula for all simple alkanes, is the number of carbon atoms times two, plus two,
because each carbon atom has four possible bonding sites. A mnemonic device for
remembering the first four alkanes, which were named before the Greek system was applied,
is Mary Eats Peanut Butter.
After removal from the crude oil, the gases are typically de-sulfurized using steam and a
catalytic reactive bed, and fractionally distilled into the four basic gases. As fractional
distilling separates the gasses by specific gravity, the principal contaminants in n-Butane at
that point, will be Iso-Butane, a branched molecule isomer of n-Butane, as well as n-
Propane, and Cyclo-Propane, plus low levels of heavier, longer oleaginous alkane wax
chains.
Neither of the butanes or propanes are particularly toxic at any sort of reasonable levels.
The following for instance is taken from a typical MSDS sheet for n-Butane. The Rat LD-50
(50%dead) is 658000 mg/m3 4 hours. That is breathing a 65.8%pure butane atmosphere
and asphixiating.
MSDS info:
Section 11. Toxicological information for n-Butane; Diethyl; Freon 600; Liquefied
petroleum gas; LPG; n-C4H10; Butanen; Butani; Methylethylmethane; UN 1011; UN 1075;
A-17; Bu-Gas.
Specific effects
Carcinogenic effects No known significant effects or critical hazards.
Mutagenic effects No known significant effects or critical hazards.
Reproduction toxicity No known significant effects or critical hazards.
No specific information is available in our database regarding the other toxic effects of this
material to humans.
Chronic effects on humans May cause damage to the following organs: central nervous
system (CNS).
Other toxic effects onhumans
Toxicity data
Butane LC50 Inhalation Vapor
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Rat 658000 mg/m3 4 hours
Product/ingredient name Result Species Dose Exposure
Products of degradation: carbon oxides (CO, CO2) and water.
Section 12. Ecological information
Products of degradation :
Environmental fate : Not available.
Environmental hazards : No known significant effects or critical hazards.
Toxicity to the environment : Not available.
Aquatic ecotoxicity
Not available.
The MSDS LD-50s on Iso-Butane, Propane, Cyclo-Propane, and oleaginous waxes are as
follows:
n-Propane; Dimethylmethane; Freon 290; Liquefied petroleum gas; Lpg; Propylhydride;
R 290; C3H8; UN 1075; UN 1978; A-108; Hydrocarbon propellant. LC50 Inhalation Gas:
Rat >800000 ppm 15 minutes
Cyclopropnane; Trimethylene; Trimethylene (cyclic); UN 1027; No LD-50 established;
Iso-Butane; 2-methyl-; Trimethylmethane; 1,1-Dimethylethane; 2-Methylpropane;
isoC4H10; i-Butane; Isobutane mixtures; UN 1075; UN 1969; R 600a; tert-Butane; A
31;Methylpropane; Propane, 2-methyl-isobutane LC50 Inhalation Vapor Rat 658000
mg/m3 4 hours
Oleaginous Waxes- Paraffin, no notable toxicity or LD-50 available
n-Butane is used for any number of things, so it is processing beyond this point, or sharing
storage tanks with other contaminated sources that may create health concerns. While n-
Butane is non-toxic enough used as a food propellant, if it is to be used as a stove fuel, it will
in most cases have an odorant added for leak detection, as n-Butane has only a very light
sweet petroleum odor.
Ethyl Mercap is most often added for that purpose, and is the familiar rotten egg smell is
detectable at the astonishing low concentration of under 3 parts per Billionth! Hexane
(Gasoline) by comparison, has an odor threshold of around 30 parts per millionth, or about
10,000 times more is required for us to smell mercaptoethanol.
The MSDS for Ethyl Mercaptan shows 4420 ppm/4 hour(s) inhalation-rat LC50; 682 mg/kg
oral-rat LD50, with the target organs being the central nervous system. Not super toxic, but
tastes and smells of rotten eggs, so that point may be mute.
Butadiene may be added to stove fuel as well, and is of serious concern. While the following
typical MSDS example shows relative low toxicity, take a look at the carcinogenic effects.
LD50 Oral Rat 5480 mg/kg -LC50 Inhalation Vapor Rat 285 g/m3 4 hours
LC50 Inhalation Vapor Rat 285000 mg/m3 4 hours
LC50 Inhalation Gas. Rat 128000 ppm 4 hours
Mutagenic effects No known significant effects or critical hazards.
Reproduction toxicity No known significant effects or critical hazards.
No specific information is available in our database regarding the other toxic effects of
this material to humans.
CARCINOGENICEFFECTS: Classified 1 (Proven for humans.) by IARC, 1 (Known to
be human carcinogens.) by NTP, + (Proven.) by NIOSH, 1 (Proven for humans.) by
European Union. Classified A2 (Suspected for humans.) by ACGIH.
MUTAGENICEFFECTS: Classified 2 by European Union.
May cause damage to the following organs: the reproductive system, mucous membranes,
upper respiratory tract, skin, eyes, central nervous system (CNS).
n-Butane may also be further refined to increase its purity, or to make it suitable for use in
butane lighters. R-600 Refrigerant and Instrument grade n-Butane are examples of higher
purity n-Butane suitable for extractions, and are distributed by suppliers like Matheson and
Airgas.
Lighter Butane:
As those sources are expensive and not usually available to non commercial customers, in
support of federal guidelines listing it as a controlled substance used in the manufacture of
illegal drugs, most folks use butane made for butane lighters.
Each manufacturers blend is slightly different, with n-Propane usually added as a propellant,
because below the freezing temperature of water, butane is a liquid instead of a gas.
They also further refine the n-Butane to remove more of the low level oleaginous waxes,
which clog the small orifices in expensive butane lighters. This is often shown on lighter
butane cans as a number followed by an X. IE: 5X.
The common name for Oleaginous Waxes from petroleum, is Paraffin, which is non-toxic
enough to have no known LD-50 data and be used to seal jelly jars, so they are of low
concern when extracting.
Here Madison Avenue has gotten a foot hold, and even 7 Xbutane is available for even more
money, though there is no advantage over a good 4Xfor the purpose of extraction.
One refiner has started labeling the brand names that they produce, Near Zero Impurities,
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guaranteeing under 50ppm impurities. An independent test showed that they in fact are
under 50 ppm, and even under the 15ppm testing cutoff, as were competitors brands not
touting near zero impurities.
If using lighter butane, the safest course is to use tried and proven brands, but if forced to
improvise, first obtain a MSDS sheet from that specific manufacturer, showing the contents.
Reject any containing mercaps or Butadiene.
Ingredients less than 1%need not be shown on the MSDS sheet, unless they present a health
risk at the levels present, so they are not all inclusive, but a good place to start.
If the MSDS looks OK, spray a five second burst on a mirror or clean glass pane and let it
completely evaporate. Check for residue. Smell it for mercaps; you cant miss them.
Each brand extracts slightly differently, because the mixes are slightly different. Adding
propane for instance, increases water solubility and the propensity to pick up water
solubles.
Here are some brands that weve tried and work well, as well as being tired and proven
brands by others. This list is by no means inclusive:
Colibri
King
Lucienne
Newport
Vector
Safety:
Butane is highly flammable, so let us next talk about safety. First and foremost, always
perform the extraction outside in a well ventilated area. Have a fire extinguisher handy, as
well as a blanket to roll up in, should the unthinkable happen.
It goes without saying that smoking around a butane extraction is asking for a disaster, but I
have literally grabbed the hand of folks starting to light up because they forgot where they
were at and what they were doing. May I suggest that you leave your lighter and smokes
somewhere else when you are doing extractions.
Same with your cell phone!
Wear no synthetic fabrics, including your socks, because static electricity sparks probably
ignite more butane unintentionally than bone headed smokers.
We use a fan to disperse the butane rapidly so as to keep it from pooling. Butane is heavier
than air and will collect in low spots given its own devices. We use a plastic fan so that no
sparks are created by a piece of gravel or other hard material passing through the fan blades.
In dry cold conditions, we add a grounding strap to our cans, so as to not draw static
electricity sparks between the can and the column.
Material Prep:
Material prep will of course depend on the application, so lets cover that subject generally.
Fresh buds should be dry of standing water and cut into small pieces, before being stuffed
into a column or thermos and placed in a -32C/0F freezer for 48 hours to solidify. Fresh
frozen buds produce the most aromatic extraction.
Second best for for maximum terpene retention are buds ground up after 5 to 7 days
hanging, or as soon as the small stems break freely. They should be jarred immediately to
retain freshness and run as soon as possible to prevent molding.
When extracting dried buds for vaporization, or bragging rights, the material is broken up
just loosely enough to extract, but not enough to expose excessive broken cell boundaries.
That can be done by hand, or with a nugget buster. Here is an example of a nug buster
design that I scored off Roll It Up forum, but alas I cant remember the author: The wire
cloth can be obtained from Howard Wire at http://howardwire.com/square_mesh.html
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Buds for decarboxylation and most pristine appearance, should be placed on a coffee sheet
and baked in a 94C/200F oven until just frangible, when rolled between the finger and
thumb. They can then be ground or scrubbed through a pasta strainer to remove the sticks
and stems. They should be jarred after grinding, to keep moisture pickup low.
The material shouldnt be bone dry as it will become too frangible, nor should a coffee
grinder be used, because of the fines that it produces, that have to be subsequently
removed.
We also dry our trim and leaves until frangible as above and scrub ti through a pasta
strainer, using a leather gloved hand and firm pressure, so as to minimize the amount of fine
particles generated.
So now that we have covered some of the basics, lets move on to the different processes:
Simple Flow Through Column:
One of the simplest methods of extracting using butane, is a packed column. A column is a
long narrow containment that allows a solvent to be passed though it using either gravity or
pressure. The column is packed with plant material to be extracted and the essential oils are
dissolved by the butane and carried out the filter in the bottom of the column, into a
collection device.
Column materials:
Columns may be made from any number of different materials, but not all are suitable for
butane service. http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance is an excellent site to
check material compatibility with the various solvents. You do however have to read
between the lines, and for medical use, stick with those materials listed as excellent.
Using those guidelines, a quick check reveals that Poly Vinyl Chloride (PVC), Acrylonitrile
Butadiene Styrene (ABS), Low Density Poly Ethylene (LDPE), for instance, are not suitable,
even though listed as good to fair, because the butane leaches out the constitutes, so they
will end up in the meds.
They list copper as fair, not because the butane attacks it, but because of sulfur compounds
and water that may be present in the butane, which form sulfuric acid and attacks the
copper. Dry low sulfur butane doesnt present the same issues, but copper columns have to
be kept meticulously clean of oxides, as for instance, welding copper without adequate
respiratory protection, produces a medical condition known as fume fever. If you do not
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have the time or inclination to keep the extraction column pristine, glass or stainless is a
better choice.
Poly Propylene (PP), Poly Vinylidene Fluoride (PVDF), Polytetrafluorethylene
(PTFE=Teflon), are listed as excellent, and High Density Poly Ethylene (HDPE), Ultra High
Molecular Weight Poly Ethylene (UHMW), or Cross Linked Poly Ethylene (XLPE) may be, but
are not listed.
Glass and borosilicate (Pyrex) work well, as does 300 series stainless steel. Neither are dirt
cheap, but our local cost for borosilicate columns from the local scientific glass blower is
only a buck an inch, plus five bucks to flare one end and close to an orifice on the other end.
1 Stainless schedule 10 pipe was only $6.20 a foot, last time I checked, but prices vary
considerably, so you should check local sources for pricing.
I dont recommend single pass columns with a larger IDthan 1, as extraction efficiency
drops rapidly above that size. Primarily because the material near the injection end is
inadequately wetted, and because the larger the column, the easier it is for the butane to just
find an easy route through, and continue to follow it.
The absolutely cheapest stainless column that Ive found is one made from a stainless turkey
baster from Bed,Bath, and Beyond for $7 .99. Throw away the bulb and pull the press fitted
needle out of the threaded adaptor, and you are good to go.
Ive made a number out of copper, usually with a union near the injection end, so that it
could be easily opened and cleaned. I also made a copper one with a can holder at the top,
using a contractors size caulking gun, and my first experiments with pressurized butane
extraction, were in a copper test sled.
In the latter case, we also added vibration and as we try to use free donated material where
at all possible, I draw your attention to the gold plated personal vibrator used for that action
and give thanks to the donor, whom wishes to remain anonymous.
A stainless column can be made by screwing a cap on one end and screw radiator clamping a
double coffee filter over the other end. Drill a 1/8 hole in the cap for the butane nozzle, and
after thoroughly cleaning the insides by washing out with alcohol and boiling in hot soapy
water, it is ready to go.
You can also stick a one hole Neoprene cork in the top of the column, instead of using a cap.
It works well enough, though more sensitive to blowouts.
We have our borosilicate columns made and some development was required to stop
breaking them in cold wet weather. What was required to stop spalling off conchoidal divots
from the injection port in frigid weather, was to make the closed end a smooth even radius of
uniform thickness, so that stresses from uneven expansion and contraction were not an
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issue. You also need to insure that the column is annealed after forming, to relieve all
residual stresses.
We add a flare to the ends of our borosilicate columns, to make filter retention easier, so as
to reduce blowouts.
A blowout, is where the filter at the end of the column ruptures and blows the column
contents into your collection vessel, or the filter blows off entirely, doing the same thing, or
when using a cork in the top, it blows out during injection.
You can guard against filter rupture, by backing the coffee filter with stainless mesh, or
cloth.
Preventing a blow off gets trickier with glass tubes, in that you cant just crank down harder
on the radiator clamp, without breaking the glass. Alternatives that work better with glass,
are twine wraps, zip locks, or rubber bands. We mostly use rubber bands, and stretch them
tight.
Column Loading:
When loading the material in the tube, we use a wooden dowel to keep it uniformly and
firmly, but not tightly packed. A dowel close to the IDof your column will make even
packing easier.
Before loading the tube, we wad up a coffee filter and stuff it in the injection port end, to
diffuse the butane as it enters and so that no plant material blow back out into our
extraction, should for any reason we need to release butane pressure in the middle of the
process.
We cut the top out of a water bottle to use as a funnel, and pack the material as we load it,
stopping about every foot to compact. When the column is full of plant material, we double
a coffee filter over the end, and then cover that with a cloth patch, securing both with
multiple tight wraps of a heavy weight rubber band.
We also scissor trim away all extra filter material, so as to minimize the oil soaked up during
the process. I find that if I am careful removing the filter after an extraction, that I can reuse
it multiple times, so as to further minimize losses. We also wash out our filters in alcohol, to
recover any essential oils soaked into them.
Skunk pharm use of a column is common general practice, though our collection and
processing techniques deviate from the norm. We simply support the column full of
pulverized plant material over a collection vessel and inject butane through the top port in
the column, and let gravity carry it through the column.
As the butane passes through the material in the column, it dissolves the trichomes, and
conveys them out the end of the column, into the collection vessel. The butane
subsequently evaporates off, it leaves the extracted cannabis oil behind.
When the stream of solvent running out of the bottom runs clear, we cease injecting butane
and insert a basket ball pump needle into the injection hole and blow out any remaining
liquid. A modified butane can nozzle adapter will adapt the needle to seal the hole.
Examination with a microscope will tell you when the trichomes have been dissolved away,
and looks like wet hairs lying down, with the capitate heads missing. Our average yield at
this point was around 17 to 18%by weight, but weve yielded up to 21.6%by dumping the
column, repacking it, and making a second run.
This second run will be less heady, and of lower viscosity, with more sedative properties, so
we keep it separate from the first.
Collection vessels:
How we are going to use the oil, to a large degree dictates how we collect it, so lets look at
some of the methods weve found effective.
Pyrex Pie Plate:
The first that I tried, was collecting in a 10 Pyrex pie plate, sitting in a larger Pyrex dish full
of hot tap water. That works well and the key is the hot water that it sits in, in at least this
neck of the Pacific NWrain forest, where we often have high humidity. If we dont set it in
hot water, ice forms at the edge of the evaporation pool, adding considerable water to the
mixture.
The hot water also rapidly boils off the butane, until all of it visibly gone, although some
remains un-purged and in solution with the oil. Techniques for purging the remaining
material vary, so we will cover those steps as a separate issue.
This technique is suitable for any process, with certain precautions and subsequent
processing.
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Stainless Bain Marie:
Even better in this land of the midnight rain, is a deep stainless bain marie container, sitting
in a hot water bath. The deep vessel fills with butane fumes, which floats away the
atmosphere, so that no moisture laden atmosphere is anywhere near the evaporation line of
the butane. That is how we processed most of our oil, when using single pass columns.
The real advantages to using this type of collection, are that it can be wiped dry on the
outside and the pot set directly into a hot oil pot for a rapid purge and decarboxylation,
followed by formulation in the same stainless vessel, so that nothing is lost to films left
behind in transfer pots. We have the tare marked on each of them, so that we can weigh the
material while still in that pot, to establish yield, and the quantities for the rest of the
ingredients.
This system works well for decarboxylated and formulated meds, but presents a challenge to
remove the oil afterwards, if you are not, and has less surface area for evaporation if you
arent planning to hot purge or wash it out with alcohol and do thin film vacuum purging.
Absolutely the best method weve found overall, subject to the above limitations.
Purging:
Butane is relatively easy to purge from cannabis oleoresins or concretes, as it has a boiling
point of around -.5C/31.5F, or right about the freezing point of water. Given enough time
just sitting around, it will purge below our 5000 ppm smell sensory threshold, and even our
far more acute sense of taste, either of which is a small percentage of the 658, 000 ppm, that
the MSDS LD-50 tells us it took to asphyxiate 50%of the test rats in 4 hours.
We can speed up that purge, by using a dish with a large surface area, relative to the depth of
the pool of oil. Usually small extractions, so as to keep the pool depth thin, are the easiest to
purge.
Typically, the thin film is scrapped and stirred periodically, to speed up the process, and a
flame may periodically be lightly run over the surface, to warm it and determine if the
bubbles exiting are butane and terpenes, or CO2. Some care needed here, as THC, CBD, and
CBN are di-terpene alcohols, and are flammable themselves, as are the other terpenes
present.
Air movement over the pool speeds up evaporation, by whisking away the saturated
boundary layer and providing the extra energy for the molecules of butane to escape the
surface of the oil, as it is ricocheting about in the pool. Care must be exercised here, as any
dust or lint in the air will end up in the oil, so usually a cheese cloth or similar porous cover
is placed over it, before blowing over the top with a fan.
We can also speed it up with the application of heat. Any heat will speed up the evaporation,
and one line of thought is to keep the heat low and around 60C/140F, using a hot pad after
the hot water bath and scraping and popping any bubbles with a razor blade. A typical
purge might take an hour and provides maximum terpene retention.
When adding bottom heat, you can also add a loose fitting lid, which will speed up the
purging and keep out lint and dust.
For a faster purge, the temperature can be raised to above the melting point of the cannabis
essential oils, or around 82C/180F, to give the butane molecules maximum mobility.
Instead of heat, vacuum may be applied to speed up the purge process. That is the process
that we use when we wish to maintain the cannabinoids in their carboxylic acid forms.
In thin film vacuum purging, we place about an 3/16 of the oil in a 6 Pyrex Petri dish, and
place that in a vacuum chamber, which also contains a hot plate. That allows us to
manipulate both the temperature and atmospheric pressure, so that we can achieve boiling
at very low, or even ambient temperatures.
While we use 180F to vacuum purge a raw oleoresin, adding heat isnt necessary when thin
film vacuum purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The alcohol will boil away under
28.5Hg at ambient temperatures, as will the water that is left behind, even without adding
any heat.
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For our oral and topical meds, we exclusively used the bain marie collection vessel, and
simply wiped the water off the outside, following the hot water purge, and set it in an electric
fondue pot full of hot 121C/250F Canola oil.
The residual butane will boil off first, exiting in larger, multi sized bubbles, followed by the
smaller equally sized CO2 bubbles from decarboxylation.
Depending on the use, we remove it from the hot oil when the bubble activity suddenly
slacks dramatically off, indicating the 7 0%peak of the decarboxylation curve, or when it
becomes quiescent, if we are looking for maximum sedative effect.
Hot oil Pots:
We use electric fondue pots for decarboxylation and I prefer the Quisinart, for their
sensitive controls and narrow dead band. We also have a couple of Rivals, which work well
too, but whose controls arent as sensitive.
Some fry cookers may have sensitive enough controls, but most are designed to primarily
run at 37 5F, and lack control sensitivity, as well as have a large dead band at 250F.
It is important to make sure that the container is sitting on something that suspends it up off
the bottom of the oil pot, to eliminate direct transfer hotspots. We keep several jar lid rings
in the bottom of our electric fondue pots for that purpose.
We never trust any controls however, and use a good mercury lab thermometer, a digital, or
an infra red optical pyrometer to establish and control temperatures.
Thermos extraction:
Thermos extraction is a technique allowing an extended soak period at atmospheric
pressure. At sea level, n-Butane boils at approximately -0.5C/31.5F, so unless the local
ambient temperature happens to be under that temperature, the butane will warm up
enough to return to its gaseous state.
In thermos extraction, the prepared material is loaded into a stainless steel thermos bottle
and frozen before having pre-chilled butane added. The thermos acts as a Dewar to keep the
butane temperature low enough to keep it in its liquid state.
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Dropping the temperature will of course also slow down the extraction rate, so the resident
soak time must be increased to compensate.
An advantage of keeping the temperatures low, is that it allows you to run fresher material,
as the water will be tied up in the form of ice.
Butane has the very slight water solubility of 0.0325 vol/vol, or about 32 milliliters per
liter. That means if there is any water available, some of it will come along and bring with it
undesirable water solubles, such as chlorophyll.
Tying the water up as ice, allows a longer soak resident time, without picking up those water
solubles. Operating at 50F outside temperatures locally, an optical pyrometer showed the
butane in the thermos to hover around +8.7 F, with mild bubbling action and minimal loss of
liquid.
Because of the low operating temperature, you can run either fresh frozen or dried material
equally well and can therefore control a wide range of flavors, by simply controlling the pre
extraction state of drying, and evaporation of aromatic terpenes.
A fully cured material will produce hashy tasting oil, and fresh material will produce floral
oils, and the rest of the flavors will be in between. The flavors besides cannabinoids, are the
lighter mono and sesquiterpenes, which are the aromatic alcohols, phenols, ketones,
aldehides, and esters.
Equipment required for this process are minimal. I scored a gorgeous little stainless steel
thermos at the local Goodwill for $4.99 and my only alteration was to drill three holes in the
cap. One to fit a lighter butane can nozzle, and a couple to allow venting during injection. I
tossed the inner lid, as the gasket was unsuitable for butane.
After soaking one hour, we pour the butane through a strainer suspended over a bain marie
catch vessel, but we also subsequently winterize, so if you arent going to, you can rubber
band a coffee filter over the opening and dump through that.
A second soak in chilled butane may be used to extract any remaining essential oils. Jump,
one of the developers of the process, reports using a 30 minute first soak, and a 2 hour
second soak, with pictures showing pristine quality from both extractions.
Once in the catch vessel, the extract can be purged any number of different ways, like any
other BHOextraction.
Notice in this case, we broke up the buds and removed the stems in a harvest box, which we
subsequently harvested the kif out of for our pipe while standing around.

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616 responses to this post.
Posted by Ron on March 3, 2014 at 11:18 AM
Hey GW,
What about butanol ? Its allot safer! and would it be possible winterize in
that solution?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 5, 2014 at 4:52 PM
You could use butanol and probably winterize just fine. In a closed loop
they are equally safe.
Joe
Posted by Waleed on March 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM
Hey GW, ive been trying to find a good amount on information on thermos
extractions ive been reading everywhere but no one seems to give a good detailed
explanation of soak times, i currently associate with a couple dispensaries and ive
been trying to increase yields i have been using open tube for 3 years and would
like to switch to thermos before i get my closed tube. My question is how long can
you soak i understand you have said that your friend does 30 min and 2 hour
soaks with both being pristine extractions. which is great but im curious if you do
soak for lets say 4-6 hours could you still get pristine quality and yield more? (also
would you i be pulling more fats cause of the soak?). I am using grade a trim after
about 5 days of drying(small stem snap). using open tube i get yellow, amber, light
colored high quality extracts in general. not trying to gloat as i have copied the tec
from others(including yourself) and the growers have done everything for me i
just would like to know if that color would darken for longer soak times I also am
curious if you have heard of dewaxing it is like winterization but using butane i
havnt read anything on here about it and would like to share the information with
you if you havnt heard of it(i was assuming you are aware but did not post it on
here cause it is a lot more dangerous.) i dont get why people like adding a second
solvent when u can remove the fats with the solvent you are using to extract
before the butane evaporates, much easier imo and you dont have to use another
solvent that boils at a much higher temp.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 5, 2014 at 5:06 PM
We encourage everyone to move to a closed loop system. Its extremely
dangerous to blast. One recent explosion was determined to have originated
from a neighbor using their toaster. You could do everything right and a
piece of toast might ruin your lifetime.
Posted by John nichols on March 1, 2014 at 6:47 AM
Is there a way to (clean) the bho so that it has a nice golden color instead of a pine
tar look?
John
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 5, 2014 at 5:11 PM
See our polishing extracts page
Posted by joe rodriguez on February 28, 2014 at 2:06 PM
Couldnt you blow into a parchment paper on silicone pad under bubby hot water
19 Votes
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til evaporation, vac for a few, flatten to square, then vac for 12-14hours? on 81-84
degrees on the hot plate, decarbing and purging all the terpenes out? But how do
you know what heat for wax and shatter?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 5, 2014 at 5:12 PM
Parchment is generally contains silicone.
Posted by bongoognob on February 25, 2014 at 1:12 PM
Hey gray..
Running a closed loop system, an active one. Coming across residue.. Just trying
to distill my CP n-tane. A tire smelling amber colored shit. I am running an appion
with this system. Is it possible to pull this residue from the appion? Is my n tane
from airgas just dirty? Ive distilled it 3 times with the same residue. Now Im
runnig a passive recovery to see if its still there. Thoughts, opinions?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 5, 2014 at 5:26 PM
High BP petrochemicals. Youll need to recover at low temperature to leave
it behind.
Posted by Joe Con February 24, 2014 at 2:56 AM
Hi Skunk, Ive read in a few places before stumbling on your awesome site that
dehydrating or putting bud in the oven before is better for BHOextraction i plan
to winterize but not decarboxylate as the end product will be vaporized What are
your thoughts on the drying pre extraction? &any other suggestions greatly
apprecited !
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 24, 2014 at 6:09 AM
I prefer material that has been hung for 5 to 7 days, or until the small stems
snap. Oven drying it drives off the monoterpenes.
Posted by beereighty on February 20, 2014 at 8:49 AM
http://tiny.cc/d49kbxIts a polypropylene cap with a silicone seal that screws
onto mason jars, wide or regular, spill proof. works AWESOMEfor mason soaks,
self filters to a decent degree for winterizers, use mesh if just purging. That link
goes to the ebay sellers page for the caps. Stay safe
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 2, 2014 at 9:33 AM
Silicone seal worries me
Posted by beereighty on March 2, 2014 at 10:14 AM
Agreed. I use the yellow tef tape on the jar. The top is a snap seal.
Posted by ommp pay it f orward on February 19, 2014 at 4:43 PM
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Posted by thrag on January 23, 2014 at 8:00 PM
I use an empty rum bottle with 3 caps. 1 for injection 1 for extraction and 1 for
straining. The injection cap has 2 holes. 1 in the center which is tapered for the
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nozzle fit, and 1 at the perimeter for pressure relief. The straining cap has a series
of small holes drilled over the entire top and fitted with a coffee filter section.
Everything (weed, bottle and gas) is frozen before starting. I simply fill the bottle
3/4 full of dry finely chopped weed and add butane until weed is covered. I then
switch to the extraction cap which has been unaltered. This cap will prevent the
butane from gassing off after it reaches its partial pressure equilibrium. I leave it
sit for 20 minutes. I then CAREFULLY ANDSLOWLY remove the cap from the
bottle relieving the gas pressure that has built up, and place the filtering cap on the
bottle and pour off into a pyrex bowl. Simple and cheap.
Posted by Colomex510 on January 17, 2014 at 1:18 PM
Nice feed bro What u think of my tech? If u dntund reading bt I blast on to a little
squared Pyrex waterbath at 120 f for 3 hours then I let it heat purge at 100 f for 48
hrs throw in to my chamber turn my vac on 29 ppm for 7 2hrs at 100 f n heres
where I have Trouble it becomes very stable n I have hard time scraping off any
suggestions?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 19, 2014 at 6:47 PM
You will get better aromatics if you throw it in the vacuum chamber as soon
as the visible butane is gone, at 115F and -29.5 Hg until the solvent bubbles
cease.
If you warm the dish up some, it will scrape easier.
Posted by keith on January 11, 2014 at 5:04 AM
My oil is so sticky I cant even work with,what can I do to make it more dry?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 12, 2014 at 3:24 PM
Tell me more about the material and how it was extracted.
Posted by cory on January 10, 2014 at 9:22 AM
Ive managed to purge to a shatter but cant seem to get it out of the pyrex vessel
without it shattering into hash-dust. Any tricks to this? Prying/scraping tools?
Temperatures? Perhaps my thin layer is too thin?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 13, 2014 at 10:12 AM
Warm up the dish enough to make easy to scrape.
Posted by Chris on January 4, 2014 at 4:20 PM
Due to a static spark my butane collection pot caught fire . I have a lot! Of oil in it
but I was forced to use a ABC fire extinguisher. Will I be able to recover my oil
back? I was thinking maybe I can dissolve it in ethanol and try to drop it out of
solution with cold? What is your idea? Theres just no way? Or with effort and time
yes
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 4, 2014 at 4:31 PM
I dont think there is much hope for the oil.
Posted by Aardvark on December 30, 2013 at 7:29 PM
Hey GW, thanks again for keeping this thread fresh, even after evolving on to the
The Mk IVA Phoenix Terpenator. I am assembling my own closed system and
decided to revisit back to the basics and see here that you recommend a column
no larger than 1; however, the Terpinator has a 4 capacity. Is the 1 column
constraint only a factor when using the open system?
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AirGas quoted me $238 for 23.1 pounds of 99%N-Butane (plus $150 shipping &
tank fee), but I also saw here that it is a controlled item, so it may be hard to
obtain. What is the best way to clean the canned Colibri-type from cans? I
already have a few lab-grade stainless tanks for reusing the Butane. Is there a
carbon/silica cartridge I can use to filter out the water content as well as boiling
off the Propane? Would an automotive refrigerant dryer cartridge help?
Thanks!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 24, 2014 at 2:24 PM
Yes, 1 IDis for a single pass open column. The Terpenators all have flooded
columns.
The best way Ive found to remove the residual longer chain molecules from
butane, is vacuum distillation.
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-mystery-oil/
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/removing-butane-mystery-oil-
using-a-terpenator/
Propane actually works well in a Terpenator for extraction.
Posted by su artma on December 30, 2013 at 10:09 AM
Im sure this is on the list of such a great deal very important information and facts
for me. And im delighted examining a persons report. Nonetheless should
observation for couple of frequent factors, The site design is perfect, the particular
reports is absolutely great : Debbie. Great undertaking, kind regards
Posted by Dr. SexPot on December 29, 2013 at 9:16 AM
Thank you Pharma-Wolf
In your vast knowledge of canna/Chemistry what base product (method of
extraction) should I be using for edibles that are geared towards recreational use?
Conversely: what method (is it different then above) for a edible geared towards
medicinal edables?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 19, 2014 at 7:55 PM
I use butane for both. I extract using more heat in the recovery pot when
making decarboxylated oil for medibles, and no heat to keep it in carboxylic
acid form when extraction for vaporization.
Posted by Matt on December 23, 2013 at 10:24 PM
Thanks for the wealth of information. You do amazing work.
I was wondering if you could use a glass mason jar or stainless steel pot instead of a
thermos?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 26, 2013 at 7:55 PM
You can if you get them cold enough. The advantage to the vacuum Dewar
style thermos, is that they stay cold for several hours.
Posted by Matt on December 26, 2013 at 11:27 PM
Thanks for the quick reply! I have been trying to find a completely
stainless steel thermos to no avail. Any suggestions? I think Ill try a
steel pot in a ice bath and see how it goes.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 27, 2013 at 3:41 AM
Ive been picking used thermoses up at Goodwill.
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Posted by MadHasher on December 19, 2013 at 7:47 PM
Merry Christmas to all you on the SkunkPharm Team, hope that you all are having
an awesome holiday season! I was wondering a few things about the Thermos
extraction, I am planning to do it following your instructions, but using a 145u
sieve to 120u second sieve dry ice extracted kief as my starting material. I have
been getting 2 ounces pr lb of decent 3/4 sugar trim and 1/4 big leaf after following
a lot of your info I dried and froze the material for 48 hrs before tumbling, using a
2-1 at least ratio of dry ice to material weight I tumbled for 2 mins, in return my I
got on clock work a 53-58 gs to lb of material, which in turn got 45-50 gs off the
second sieve with dry ice through the 120u (this was done directly after the initial
first sieve while still cold transferred from the 145u to 120u drum for filtration). I
will be breaking down the 120u into full melt kief, all the left overs from that as well
as the initial 120u leftovers I plan to put through the thermos extraction which I
will subsequently winterize as you suggest. While considering what is my starting
material, my questions are:
What ratio of butane to material should I use?
Would you suggest a longer and/or multiple soaks?
Is there a specific type of butane that you would use?
And one slightly off subject question, is it possible to turn polished absolute to
wax or are some components of the wax equation filtered out once the
polishing process of the absolute has been done?
Thanks so much for your time, and please take your time, enjoy your holidays,
thank you so much for all your hard work and dedication to the giving of this
information. Bless
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 27, 2013 at 3:49 AM
No ratio, we lightly pack the thermos 3/4 full and fill the rest of the way with
butane.
We use one soak if we are making it to vaporize ourselves and one thirty
minute soak, followed by an hour and a half soak if we are going for bragging
rights.
Posted by Josh on December 14, 2013 at 1:49 PM
My mother has been diagnosed with cancer, it has been close to 8 to 9 months
now. e want to try some oil to see if that will help her. I saw that in your article it
states that both THC and THCA have medicinal properties. In my mothers case,
would THC be better? Also you state that heating the BHOto activate the THC will
evaporate some of the terpines. Am I better off making the oil with alcohol?
Thanks in advance!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2013 at 9:03 AM
CBDmay play as much or even a stonger role in cancer treatment, than THC.
It is easy to extract all of the terpenes, by any number of different methods,
so holding on to the monoterpenes during purge is the challenge. It is easier
to extract the oil with butane, but without significantly lowering extraction
temperatures, you will end up with waxes that you have to winterize with
alcohol to remove.
Alcohol doesnt extract the non polar plant waxes, but it grabs the water
solubles and chlorophyll, so the process has to be done frozen and more
carefully controlled.
Before focusing unduly on the terpenes, take a look at the medicinal
properties of the individual monoterpenes present, and consider what effect
they may have on your moms cancer treatment.
Posted by longingf orwisdomon December 13, 2013 at 1:47 AM
I have a bunch of fresh flowers (non decarboxylated, uncured, non frozen) that I
ran once through a butane extraction via a glass tube. After looking at the material
under a microscope there is still a significant amount of trichomes on the material.
I have access to 7 5%, 151 proof grain alcohol and 99%isopropyl alcohol. I was
wondering which solvent/method (temperature, pressure, time, agitation) you
would suggest I use to have a final product that can be vaporized?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2013 at 6:26 AM
Too much water in the 151 proof. I would do a QWISOextraction
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http://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwiso/
Posted by longingf orwisdomon December 13, 2013 at 1:37 AM
I have a bunch of fresh flowers I processed one time through a butane extraction
via a glass tube but still have significant trhricomes (when looking at it under a
microscope) on the material. I have access to 7 5%, 151 proof grain alcohol and
99%isopropyl alcohol. What would be the better option/ method (temperature,
pressure, time of agitation) to obtain a product that can be vaporized?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2013 at 9:24 AM
The 99%will produce a superior extraction for vaporization.
Posted by longingf orwisdomon December 18, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Thanks, I did a combined 1st and 2nd wash with the 99%in a mason
jar and then filtered it through a strainer.
I am refreezing the material because it appears to still have at least
30%of its trichomes left ( I am planning to cook that into a coconut
oil for oral consumption and topical rubs).
Since I didnt have enough ISOto do all the material I have left the
butane washed material frozen until I can obtain more 99%and get
back to location where the freezer is.
I didnt have the time to run the ISOextractions I did do, through a
coffee filter yet, so I also placed the mason jar with the 99%
extractions in the freezer.
I did test dry some of the yield from the ISOextractions in a pyrex
dish (1 dish not run through the coffee filter and 1 dish with it ran
through the coffee filter), and let it dry. It turned into a green oil like
material. I am guessing this is why you want to do the heated water
bath after an ISOextraction? Is that what makes it into a high quality
vaporization extract?
I appreciate the work you do. I myself have been running tests long
before I found you, using all my knowledge from Organic Chemistry
so thank you for adding your knowledge. It is most helpful to have
someone whose has ran, or has data from running an experiment I
have not ran myself.
I do have one last question for you. Do you believe I need to take any
steps before cooking the left over material that is frozen and has been
through the 1 BHOextraction and 2 ISObath extractions?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 27, 2013 at 3:56 AM
Please elaboborate on your Iso process.
Im surprised that after a BHOand two ISOextractions, that
there is enough left to make a forth extraction cost effective.
Posted by Asmodeus on January 14, 2014 at 5:45 PM
I did a bho for first, iso for second and tried another iso
for a third and ended up with a blackish tar that smelled
like grassnot the good kind
Posted by grrrld on December 9, 2013 at 6:24 PM
been making bho both for vaping and edibles. been using the same material for
both. column holds ~65 grams. not the freshest material, but it was cheap.
decarbed material (2hrs at 200 degrees) has consistently yielded ~6g, whereas the
other yields ~10g. any ideas as to why decarbing is reducing the yield? and would
it be more productive to decarb at the end of the process?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 24, 2013 at 5:28 PM
Not sure why decarb should reduce yield. Ostensibly it should increase it by
lowering the starting weight of water.
We always decarb afterwards.
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Posted by Lady Stiltz on December 9, 2013 at 2:38 AM
Ok just trying to get this right from the get go. Im using fresh frozen bud in one run
and the left over trim in another. Planning to use the thermos method, using the
end product in an oil rig. Question is I plan to soak and dump twice into a Pyrex
dish in a hot water bath. I want to winterize, so post bubble stopping do I then add
the alcohol direct to the Pyrex? And do I need to do anything additional before
throwing it in the vac purger to get rid of the alcohol or will the vac do that for me?
Sorry that is where I am to get lost. Great information, thanks for helping keep
everyone informed and safe!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 24, 2013 at 5:26 PM
You can dump the alcohol in at that point, and we stick it in the freezer for
48 hours and filter out the waxes, before purging the alcohol. Check out
winterization at http://skunkpharmresearch.com/getting-the-
green-and-waxes-out-afterwards/
Posted by SamStroup on December 7, 2013 at 3:29 PM
Oral consumption of hash oil has lots of varying opinions on the correct way to
perform such a task and I was wondering if you could help clear up some of the
questions I have about it. There seems a consensus that whatever method of
administration you choose the THCA must first be decarboxylated into THC.
Where the most variation in opinions occurs in wether this now active THC needs a
solvent such as ethanol, or and fat based solvent for efficient absorbtion in the
intestines or if the decarboxylated [butane] hash oil could just simply be
swallowed. Any help clearing this up would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 8, 2013 at 6:53 AM
THCA and THC both have medical properties, so it depends on what you are
treating, as to whether it has to be decarboxylated. Cannabis oil has to be
decarboxylated to be orally active at the CB-1 receptors, but only because
of the blood brain barrier, which isnt an issue for the immune systems CB-2
receptors.
Cannabis oil will absorb all by itself, but if you take it with alcohol or a fat,
they will tie up the liver processing them, so as to leave the cannabinoids in
our system longer.
Posted by What is the dif f erence between SHATTER, WAX, OIL, BUDDER? - Page 10 on December 6,
2013 at 1:17 PM
[] site if you just wanna talk shit, some people are trying to use the site for good
Anyways http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ Reply With
[]
Posted by zungguzungguguzungguzeng on December 1, 2013 at 9:18 AM
Hi, first of all thanks for such detailed explanations and for the engagement with
the community, you are amazing!
That said Im trying to do my first extraction with the thermos method but Ive got
some doubts Im hoping you could help me with.
First of all, the material would be fresh trimmings that I conserved in my freezer in
tupperware, so while it was pretty much sealed since it was not packed very tightly
or to the brim theres definitely some ice but just on the surface I guess, I red you
recommend to let it thaw out until dry, pack in the thermos and re-freeze.. but if I
already drilled the hole in the thermos wont the ice just form again in it? Or even if
its still intact if its not completely filled wont the remaining air inside form a film
of ice on top as it happened with the tupperware? Mainly I guess Im asking whats
the adverse effect of the ice and if its just a film on top can I just scrape it away and
be cool?
Also, how much should I pack said thermos as rule of thumb for a good soak?
I also red in the comments of people doing the soak while putting the thermos in a
basin of ice and in your photo you just left it outside with a towel over it, couldnt I
just put it back in the freezer? Because of the low temperature the butane should
remain liquid and not be risky, so whats the downside? Lower temperature just
means longer soaking time?
Thanks!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 8, 2013 at 7:50 AM
The issue with ice covering the trichomes is of course that the butane
doesnt have access to the resin. That is why it is important to seal the
material before freezing.
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Whatever your process, you need to remove the ice before extracting.
Ostensibly you could sublimate it away under vacuum as well.
We pack the thermos about 3/4 full when pressed firmly with thumb
pressure, and submerge it in about an inch of butane.
I dont recommend putting an open container of butane in a freezer. There
are some examples on line of folks who thought they could get away with
and were wrong.
Posted by DY on November 30, 2013 at 7:47 PM
GREAT SITE! I love how much there is to learn! Quick question,
When trying to make a winterized extract as the end objective, is it necessary to
hot-water or vacuum purge the butane from the extraction mixture before adding
the ethanol? I have seen individuals simply pour the ethanol into the
butane/extraction mixture while the butane is still liquid, and a rapid bubbling
ensues.Is this a safe way to purge the butane, or is more purging needed?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 1, 2013 at 7:54 AM
You can add the alcohol any time, but we usually allow the butane to be
visibly gone, before adding the alcohol.
Posted by Advice needed! Tips on increasing BHOyield. - Page 8 on November 26, 2013 at 1:58 PM
[] BESTUPIDANDBLOWYOURSELF UP. Also here is some great info for you
here (very indepth) http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/
Happy hash making and hope you never have to such a low yield again Reply []
Posted by C4h10 on November 24, 2013 at 9:52 PM
Hello GW, When I vacuume purge I normally run my vac chamber at about 110f
and about -27 hg (cant seem to get this pump to go all the way to -30) normally I
purged until all the bubbles stop rising to the top wich is around 6 to 8 hours.
Recently Ive tryed flipping my slab over and purging again for a few more hours.
The thing thats confusing me is that every time I flip the slab over it seems to
bubble up against even after a few flips. Could it actually be that every time Im
pulling more butane out? Or is it just air getting trapped in the concentrate? Do I
need more vacuume or heat? Thanks.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 26, 2013 at 2:09 PM
What altitude are you at? You can only hit 29.92 inches at sea level and by
2000 feet elevation, barometric pressure is only around 27 .
If you will raise the temperature to about 115F and stop purging when the
larger irregular bubbles cease, you will be good. Carboxylic acid will
continue to release smaller fizzy bubbles as a function of decarboxylating.
Posted by Gbroque on November 16, 2013 at 9:09 PM
Does one need a solvent safe vacuum pump for cold boiling a winterized alcohol
solution? If the answer is yes, does one need a solvent safe pump for use with a
Bchner funnel?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 17, 2013 at 6:09 AM
You need either a solvent safe pump, or a cold trap to cold boil alcohol. You
can get a small solvent safe pump, and switch to it after pulling down the
chamber with a larger conventional pump.
You can also make do by changing the pump oil frequently, if if the level
gets too high, or the color changes.
A Buchner funnel is a less severe application and it isnt as long, but
eventually you end up with the same problem. We picked up a military
surplus MASHpump for filtration.
Posted by Cascade TEK on November 18, 2013 at 10:43 AM
Skunk Pharm is spot on. A standard, oil-sealed rotary vane pump will
quickly be trashed when used for solvent extraction. A dry ice trap is a
solid, cost-effective accessory that will also allow for reuse of Butane.
Dealing with cry ice can be a hassle and a safety hazard so do your research.
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Refrigerated traps tend to be prohibitively expensive for all but full-scale
producers. We recommend a chemical duty membrane pump. You still have
the flexibility of using a fore-line trap for Butane reuse but you dont need to
in order to protect your pump.
Posted by Jenni on November 14, 2013 at 10:19 AM
Hi. Just planned to inquire a rapid problem. Now i am setting
up my personal blog as well as want to know in which you have your own design?
Has been that free? Or perhaps was it paid for?
I cannot seem too find anything as good as this one, thus ideally
you can ok, ill recognize. Many thanks. PS, my personal im sorry.
The english language is just not my own primary words.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2013 at 5:08 AM
We are using WordPress and pay to not have advertizments popping up.
Posted by How long do you dry/cure bef ore blasting? - Page 4 on November 14, 2013 at 4:11 AM
[] to extract the frozen material? Can you explain this process please fade? Here
is how we do it. http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ We cut
the fresh colas up into about 1/4" pieces and pack into a thermos, which we put a
lid []
Posted by Andy Sanchez on November 7, 2013 at 1:51 PM
Gw,
can any regular refrigerant work?
I.e r22, r12 ,r134a ,r407 c, r404a ,r410a.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 7, 2013 at 1:57 PM
Many will extract, but arent something that you want an residuals in the oil,
if it is to be combusted.
Posted by Eric on November 1, 2013 at 4:50 PM
Whats the best way to preserve wax, and to save potency
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM
In an opaque air tight container in the freezer.
Posted by Jamie on October 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM
Ive been looking to buy a vacuum chamber and have heard good things about the
vac-it pro. I was able to find it on ebay about two weeks ago but didnt buy it. Now
when I look on the ebay page it doesnt show that hes selling anything. I tried the
website (vac-it-pro.com) and that didnt work. Does anyone know if vac-it-pros are
still being sold?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 30, 2013 at 7:37 AM
Sorry, no. Weve never used one and havent kept track of them.
Posted by Geof f on October 30, 2013 at 9:04 AM
I noticed the same thing. I dont know where to get a vac it pro, but I
ordered a similar chamber, the provac, off amazon. It is a bit more
expensive, 160 with shipping, as opposed to the vac it pro, which I believe
was 125 with shipping, but also has a few extra features, such as I rings
around the joining parts to help provide a better seal. If you are interested I
am happy to give you a more thorough review when it comes in the mail
tommorrow. Just reply or email me at gbroque@me.com
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Posted by ganar dinero mientras duermes pdf on October 27, 2013 at 9:01 PM
Great blog here! Also your web site loads up fast! What web host
are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my site loaded up as
fast as yours lol
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 28, 2013 at 5:48 AM
We use Word Press
Posted by Hydra Group on October 27, 2013 at 5:24 PM
Hello GWand thanks for all the wonderful work you do for the community
I have a 48 stainless steel extraction tube 1/2 lb and packing and loading has
been a major pain in the arse LoL I remember seeing a post about using some air
thing to clear the tube out easily?? Aside from that any good tips on loading and
unloading?? One person recommend to me to unpack right after running the BHO
into the pyrex my concern is that after running the cans I see butane gas still
coming out from the top and worried if I open the clamp and oring seal it will not
be safe?? Would love to buy one of those MK automated systems when they
become avail
Any recommendations for open style extraction tubes for 1lb or more
processing??
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 28, 2013 at 5:58 AM
Packing a pound into an open column either makes it excessively long, or
large in diameter. You could run 160 grams in a 1 X48 tube, but it might
be tough to unload, even with air pressure. When we were experimenting
with 48 columns, I used a 6 electricians flexible drill bit to punch it out
when stuck.
Posted by Gbroque on October 24, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Hello again. I have a few questions about safety.
I recently received some components of my extraction setup, namely a hot
plate/electric griddle and a infrared thermometer. both came with warning labels,
the electric plate cautioned about sparks and risk of fire presumably
exacerbated with the presence of butane the infrared thermometer warns against
using on flammable materials like butane but everybody uses these
thermometers while making bho!
so
1) How can i maximize safety while using the hot plate?
2) How can i safely use the thermometer?
On another note, i was wondering why people use hot water baths/double boilers
to purge instead of just low heat on the griddle, if its because of the griddle not
going low enough, would the use of a light dimmer help cut electrical flow to the
griddle, reducing temp?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 12, 2013 at 6:09 AM
At the time we use a thermometer and hot plate in the process, there
shouldnt be enough butane left to reach ignition levels.
The griddles dont maintain well at low temperatures and dont heat
uniformly. If you put sand or an oil bath on the griddle, it will work
somewhat. Most folks are plugging and unplugging griddles to maintain
heat.
A light dimmer usually is around 600Wand a griddle about twice that.
Posted by f rank l jones on November 12, 2013 at 7:45 PM
hey bro , a heads up on a great hot plate,Id tryDto find the perfect heat
source
got pretty close using G.Ws heat mats then went to a corning pc-400d hot
plate
it dials in and only has a bout a 2 deg plus or minus ,well worth the money
just wanna share as I was not giving in(smile)
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 13, 2013 at 4:39 AM
Thanks for the heads up bro! Looks like it controls from 5C up.
http://catalog2.corning.com/Lifesciences/en-
US/Shopping/ProductDetails.aspx?productid=6795-
400D(Lifesciences)&categoryname=General+Labware+and+Equipment(Lifesciences)%7cHot+Plates(Lifesciences)%7cHot+Plates%2c+5+x+7+Inch+Dig
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Posted by Kyle on October 24, 2013 at 9:56 AM
I could use some help. I did a run, about 12 ounces or so, into a 8 by 8 pyrex dish.
Heat was at 120 but I think because I used a smaller dish the tane made it cool
down a lot because it piled ontop of each other. However, after blasting outside
and it evaporating I brought it inside. Scraped it up and put it on parchment and
into my vacuum chamber on my griddle. My griddle is a black and decker that is 4
years old. The temp settings dont do much. Ill turn it until it barely kicks on, the
lowest temp and itll shoot up to 17 0 then turn off and wont turn on until its close
to 100 again. I put a pizza stone under my chamber to help with heat. Its been
going for 9 hours at full vac since I added the pizza stone, prior to that about 24
hours at full vac. Still hasnt waxed up. Im wondering if its because my griddle is
basically flash heating the entire time but the pizza stone kinda prevents that to an
extent so I just dont know. >.< http://imgur.com/SqIPuEc
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 12, 2013 at 6:20 AM
Do you have a optical thermometer and if so, what is the temperature of the
oil itself?
Posted by Alex Ron October 21, 2013 at 2:07 PM
Hey Greywolf, I have read many of your posts on this site and various forums and
appreciate you informing the public with safer and effective techniques. I have
been making BHOfor quite some time now and I still struggle with one thing. My
question for you is when purging by using heat from approximately 130-140F,
what are the tell tale signs that the oil is ready to be scraped? How can you tell that
all the butane has properly been purged out enough for the product to be safely
vaporized?
One last question is I have a batch of oil that would leave a very strange residue, so
I repurged it at temps that must have gotten rid of any remaining butane, but the
oil continued to leave a strange residue. Is the residue most likely harmless? Any
information on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 24, 2013 at 7:42 AM
Taste and smell.
I would have to see the deposit and an analysis of the oil to have an opinion,
but plant waxes will leave a residue in the vapor pipe and they are non
toxic.
Posted by cooper517 on October 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM
the tube is 10 1/2 in long and about 2in across(looks very similar to a tube of caulk
or silicone, for a comparison) the packing wasnt too tight (i use a wooden dowel
about 3/8 in size and do not force it to pack tightly ,basically i just use the weight
of the dowel the pack it. as far as material(i am a medicinal grower/caregiver so
have decent material to work with) but i have been letting it dry and chopping it up
with scissors to a joint roll-able consistency (maybe not that fine but close) i have
not inspected with microscope, going to start doing that.
thanks for the help btw
a friend suggested i put some paper beside be when i am making my product and to
quickly let a few drops onto the pape the quickly back to the pyrex dish , he said if
u see no golden color it done if u sitll got color keep on going with ur solvent. what
do u think about this idea? thank u again i so wish i could get into some of the
studies u teach
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 20, 2013 at 9:16 AM
I recommend a smaller IDtube, no larger than about 1. I liked my 1 X36
tubes for that purpose.
Get around a 3/4 packing dowel, for the 1 tube.
Push down firmly on the material, until it stops moving and then quit. Pack
several times in the course of loading the column, to keep it even.
I stick my finger in the stream and check it for sticky between my finger and
thumb.
Posted by cooper517 on October 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM
i was thinking the same, a bigger dowel would probably ensure a more
evenly packed tube too as far as my larger tube goes. thanks bro! i
just harvested some pretty frosty goodness so i am drying it out as we
speak. it will take probably a few-some days depending on the
wonderful Michigan weather,but lately it has been cool and wet so i
am redialing in my drying area. i am thinking i may just stick with my
turkey baster for some runs until i can get better with my returns ? at
least so i dont go through so much material lol , i have been
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reading more about the turpinator u built and the schematics(sorry if
i miss spelled) how are the returns with that beautiful monstrosity?
i hope ur having a great Sunday GW, watching some football and
relaxing
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 24, 2013 at 8:34 AM
Averaging just over 20%on prime bud and about half that on
trim.
Peace!
Posted by cooper517 on October 24, 2013 at 11:38 AM
thanks again. i gat amother problem too. i did the
routine same as before, i had approx 1.8g i vac it down
and placed it on the griddle at about 150 degrees F for
approx 2hours and 10 mins. i pulled it out lut it cool and
it was like a syrup consistency? i contacted a
acquaintance he said my pyrex plate may not have been
hot enough and being the butane is so cold, to say it
trapped moisture from like condensation or something?
i has been siting for like 3 days and still no solidity. is
this possible about the moisture thing? the plate temp
was like the only thing i did not check before i started
blasting. i did freeze the butane cans for like a hr befor i
blasted and the were frosted over when done. maybe
frost from can? when u hit it to the nail it crackles or
sizzles a little sounds like if u ever had water in ur
titanium nail and try to heat it , it will sizzle and crackle a
little. please help GW. thank you my friend
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 12, 2013 at 6:18
AM
If you heated it to 150F for two hours without being in a
vacuum, you most likely have partially decarboxylated
it, so it wont turn to shatter.
If it has water in it, it will crackle and fire dance. You
might spread it thin on parchment and hit it with a heat
gun, or use vacuum.
Posted by cooper on October 15, 2013 at 2:03 PM
i am new to extraction process i have did a few runs with flowers, however no
matter how hard i try i cannot get my returns over 10-12%(12%if i am kicking ass
that day lol) and most peeps i talk too on the net say they get like almost 20%on
nug runs ? i have read quite a bit of ur work here u seen to be the most informative
also on the other site forms too so here is what i have i have.. 2 nonbleached
coffee filters, glass blasting tube along with the turkey baster tube (glass can hold
about roughly 35g of semi-hard packed material,and of course u know what the
turkey holds), and Lucienne butane. from their i do the pyrex dish with w/hot
water bath underneath.(i am sure u smell what im stepping in now)..but i do not
freeze the butane or column will this make a difference? and can u give me any
more pointers? please thanks you so much for the help and reply also thank you
for taking the time to share ur work to ensure people get a good understanding on
how to provide a safe medication
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 16, 2013 at 7:45 AM
Yeah, we average about 20%yield by weight on prime bud, but have had as
low as 5.7 %and as high as 28.1%.
How are you preparing and packing the material. What state of dry is it.
How large an IDis the glass tube.
Freezing the tube will improve quality, but will reduce extraction efficiency.
Have you examined the left over material with a microscope, to see what is
being left behind?
Posted by Geof f on October 15, 2013 at 2:00 PM
Im trying to figure out what tube to buy and could use your input, the one I am
most interested in is a 150g apx capacity tube with a 1.5 diameter, possible
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bigger, no more than 2. The other is a little more expensive but 1.1/4 diameter,
with a 200g apx capacity.
Also wondering about how best to purge an ethanol winterized solution, with
shatter being the goal, and time being an issue. I read cold boil can take a while.
Given that I want it to be a shatterific as possible, I presume that means a minimal
amount of decarboxilation in the purging process?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 16, 2013 at 7:41 AM
Anything larger than about 1 IDis hard to pack evenly enough that the
butane doesnt just find an easy way out. I used a 1 X36 for efficiency and
ease of packing and unpacking, which holds around 115/120 grams of 10
mesh prime bud.
Posted by Steve Weglein on October 12, 2013 at 10:05 AM
Hello,
I use the stainless steel thermos with kif and butane (all freezer chilled to 0f) to
extract my bho. Normally, I put the thermos in a 1 gallon plastic pitcher of ice to
keep everything cool for longer, and stir the contents with a long kitchen knife
every so often to keep refreshing the boundary layer to enhance the extraction
speed. I have kept the contents cold for up to 2 1/2 hours before dumping and
filtering.
It occurs to me that the process could be improved with the addition of vibration.
As I do my extraction outside in the open, and butane vapor pooling isnt a
problem, especially with the 0f temperature of the butane minimizing
evaporation.
What I am contemplating using is an inexpensive ultrasonic (42,000 cycles, I
believe) jewelry cleaner such as the one in this link ..
http://www.amazon.com/Medelco-SJ4-sonic-jewelry-
cleaner/dp/B000AMG0ZM%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAIF33BTK3TZWASH5A%26tag%3D05-
sonicjewelrycleaners-
20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB000AMG0ZM
Have you any experience with this? Do you think the boundary layer would be
effectively moved? If you think this idea has some merit, would you vibrate
constantly, or every few minutes, or do you see problems?
Thanks in advance
Steve
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 2:02 PM
We havent tried that yet, but Ostensibly, the ultrasonics would improve the
extraction rate.
Posted by Steve Weglein on October 13, 2013 at 5:49 PM
I will report back in a few weeks, when I have some kif again .. It
occurred to me that the same strategy might work for a QWET (from
kif) to maximize extraction rate for that as well
Posted by tomon October 9, 2013 at 5:11 PM
I am going to be making oil for my first time this weekend so i just wanted to make
sure i had all the info i can get. how do you make it so that your oil comes out in
the shatter form or the Honeycomb form. Is this something that is done during
the purging process?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 2:40 PM
Oil starts out in the shatter form unless you decarboxylate it with heat or
retain solvent.
We get the best results reliably producing shatter, by using -29.5 Hg
vacuum and 115F until the solvent bubbles cease coming off.
Posted by triple on October 9, 2013 at 3:53 PM
Hi Sunkpharm, first off great site! I have spent hours scouring this site, as well as
others, looking for an answer to a question i have:since both kiefing and bho
extraction recover approximately the same amount of product from buds- say
20%return-and from my reading i see GWproposes a 60%or greater return on
kief.
Is one losing 8%yield [in this theoretical example] by pre kiefing the buds?
Yet, at the same time, one is reducing the amount to be processed with butane by a
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factor of 5X.
I am considering getting a Mark3a from specialized formulations with a 6 column
for kief as per your use mentioned above.Using kief rather than bud seems as
though it would allow one to gain efficiency by using 1/5 the materialalbeit with
a corresponding lose in yield.An alternative may be using bud in a Bhogart 5lb
model or equivalent. Or perhaps your own Mark V when it becomes available.I
cannot find yield data for the Bhogart unit online and they have not returned
queries regarding this matter as of yet.
In the short term i am going to try the thermos method-would i get similar yields
but in a longer time frame with the thermos method as compared to the Mark3a?
Thanks so very much for all you do!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 5:39 PM
Assume there is about 20%potential by weight.
You extract about 10%kifing, which leaves about 10%behind on the plant
material. Kifing a higher percentage, starts to green the kif from leaf
material.
A 60%yield on that kif, would be a 6%overall yield.
You might build a Mk II with a 3 X36 column, you can process a couple
pounds at a time.
The automated Mk V prototype is in final assembly. Ill post some updated
pictures.
The Terpenator should provide a higher yield than a thermos with a single
processing.
Posted by J444 on October 8, 2013 at 3:29 PM
I want to make my own BHOfor my O.PenVape. I refill it myself now with Tetra
Labs Pure Gold but it is expensive at $30 per .5g. I am concerned about the
consistency of the final product, Pure Gold is about as thick as honey. What is your
BHOs consistency and what oil if any can I add to it to so it will absorb through the
wick and vaporize?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 6:56 PM
Pure Gold adds 5%Limonene to make theirs flow. You can also use
Propylene Glycol.
Posted by cooper on October 8, 2013 at 10:56 AM
i have a few question do you still check the site and update? i could really use the
help as i am trying to learn for my patients. thanks
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 14, 2013 at 7:00 AM
We update, but mostly at this moment, Im just trying to catch up, before
dashing off to catch up on something else.
What are your questions bro?
Posted by Kyle on October 3, 2013 at 2:34 AM
Hello, great research and read. I make my bho for vaporizing and I dehydrate my
material at about 110 115 for a few hours. It comes out golden and whatnot but I
need to increase my yield. What are some things that can be done to increase
yield? Thanks in advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 6, 2013 at 9:26 AM
How are you extracting?
Posted by Kyle on October 7, 2013 at 3:12 PM
Vector and a Silika Extractor Tube
Posted by korupt on September 26, 2013 at 12:00 AM
So I did my 3rd and 4th run yesterday and I manage to increase the yeild 3-fold by
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using trapped butane and soaking my material and shaking. Since I use good grade
hash I dont think long soking is a problem for me and I get a pretty decent clarity.
My result looked something like: http://i46.tinypic.com/2q22v02.jpg but I
will post a pic or two when Ive gotten my vac chamber.
So with that experience, I got a few questions if someone has the time.
1: Does long soaking pull out more impurities.
2: What does long soaking in butane pull out.
3: Will these supposed impurities go away with a hexane/saline wash?
4: What is the smallest possible filter you could use? Ive seen 0.2 micron
mentioned a lot.
Thanks in advance
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 26, 2013 at 5:40 AM
If you soak long enough, you can pick up water and water solubles. Though
non polar and generally considered immiscible in water, butane will absorb
up to 32 ml/L if left long enough.
It will never pull a dark green extract like a polar solvent will, but it will
start to take on an electric green hue.
Ostensibly they would be removed by a hexane/saline wash, but so will
many of the monoterpenes getting rid of the hexane. It isnt harsh like
extracts heavy with chlorophyll, but the color is off putting to some folks.
We use 25 micron to winterize and then filter down to 0.2 microns, using a
syringe filter.
Posted by ommp pay it f orward on September 24, 2013 at 10:52 PM
Follow more of the Skunk Pharm Research llc team on Twitter @GrayWolf23
Posted by Geof f on September 24, 2013 at 4:57 PM
Hey, I have a few questions I was hoping you guys could answer for me. Sorry if
Im posting in the wrong section or my answers have already been covered.
1) I see a variety of Vacuum pumps in use, single and 2 stage, as well as with
different CFMratings. I am willing to cash out on this most essential gear for a
good one if I need too, but would rather spend as little as I need too. Is a single
stage 1.5 CFMpump good enough to get the job done? For that matter, is there any
advantage of a two stage pump other than noise level?
2) I plan to follow your ethenol wash 48 hour freeze polishing process, do I still
need to vacuum purge to good bho quality/at all my bho before I use this process?
In other words, will the ethanol wash take care of the butane?
Related ethanol wash questions:
What is a safe way to store the ethanol mixture in the freezer
How much ethanol will I need to use for say, an ounce of bho?
3) as far as extraction tubes go, does the length matter? As far as I can tell, the
longer the better, but I wanted an expert opinion.
4) I have seen a lot of people hype about using a dehydrator to eliminate more
chlorophyll, I want as gold and as pure a product as possible, without loosing too
many cannabinoids along the way, is his the way to go? Is it as good worse or
better than the decarboxilation w an oven you describe on this site?
Thanks in advance, and Ill take this opportunity to thank you all for sharing your
research and insights on this site. It is very helpfull.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 25, 2013 at 8:34 AM
A 1.5 cfm single stage vacuum pump would get the job done, but a larger
one would get it done lots quicker. We like our CPS VP6S single stage rotary
vane pumps.
Even a single stage pump can pull low enough to boil away the THC at room
temperature, so no need for a double stage.
The ethanol will remove the butane.
Under an inch IDfor an open column extraction, and much over about 36
becomes a pain in the butt to unload. I made 12, 24, and 36 lengths last
time around, and the 36 got used most, the 12 second, and the 24 hardly
at all.
Chlorophyll is not much of an issue with a non polar extraction and we
freeze the material and the solvent for a polar extraction. Fully desiccated
material will shed more chlorophyll than something in the 20/25%moisture
content, because the water soluble chlorophyll binding proteins are also
desiccated and less effective.
I prefer to decarboxylate my oil in a 250F hot oil bath after extraction.
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GW
Posted by ommp pay it f orward on September 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM
Follow GrayWolf on twitter
@GrayWolf23
Portland
Posted by Ommp Payit Forward on September 19, 2013 at 7:40 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/SkunkPharm
Posted by Robert on September 18, 2013 at 7:58 PM
How crazy do you guys go on stem/leaf removal for fresh material to be frozen?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 18, 2013 at 8:25 PM
Pluck and shuck. No trim.
Posted by Steve Weglein on September 15, 2013 at 8:37 AM
I am looking at various glass BHOextraction tubes. I would like to get one that
holds just enough high quality flowers to exhaust 1 can of butane, without wasting
too much THC. Would you suggest a 28gram size 9 inches tall and 32mm diameter,
or the 40 gram size which is 9 inches tall and 38mm in diameter.
I am not expecting 100%in one can, of course . 85-90%with 1 can is what I am
looking for.
Or are both of these sizes too large there is a mini, which only holds 7 -10 grams
7 inches by 19mm it seems to me that this is too small to need a whole can of
butane.
I found the alcohol extraction class fascinating, and informative. And the lunch
provided by Carla, was deliscious. Thanks for everything
Steve
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 15, 2013 at 10:09 AM
I dont recommend a single pass extraction tubes with an IDof larger than
1. I like a 1 X12 for one can extraction.
Posted by Geof f on October 14, 2013 at 1:08 PM
What about for multiple can extractions? Im looking into a 150g tube
with a 1.5 inner diameter, would that result in a profound drop in
yield? Since it has a 150g capacity I would be running 5 cans of
butane through it per load.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 16, 2013 at 7:22 AM
1 IDis about the largest tube size that we found to efficiently
extract material in single pass columns. The loss depends on
how carefully the tube was packed to keep the butane from just
finding an easy way out.
Posted by Everett James on September 21, 2013 at 10:08 AM
14-18 gram extraction tubes will yield the cleanest/most consistent
trichome count, but will take longer to extract depending on your batch
size. Ive found 25-28 gram tubes to work a little better in terms of
portioning out butane, as I average out 300mL (1 can) n-Butane per Oz of
plant material per run through. Most head shops will carry glass or Boro
tubes in half-Oz, Oz, 2-Oz, and, more uncommonly, 4-Oz sizes.
Posted by Steve Weglein on September 2, 2013 at 9:49 AM
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I tried a butane in the ss thermos extraction with frozen kief and frozen butane. I
put the thermos (like yours pictured) in a container of ice cubes, so I could extract
for hours. What I found was that there was still plenty of undissolved thc in the
(former) kief, after it dried. I ran a 2nd can of butane with the same setup, and after
drying the remains, still saw plenty of thc.
My question is do you have any idea what the maximum one could expect frozen
butane to dissolve of thc in the kief.
I would like to put more than enough kief in the thermos, but not excessively too
much.
Prior to my finding this site, I used to blow butane thru a tube filled with partially
ground flowers. My maximum return was about 6 grams of honey oil from 1 can of
(not frozen) butane .. can I expect more from the thermos/kief/frozen butane?
The kief that was partially extracted with 2 cans of butane, I dried, mildly
reground with a coffee grinder, and covered with 99%isopropanol. The resulting
liquid was quite green.
Ive put that in the sun for a while, and wrote this question while waiting for the
green to fade. I have a feeling that the thc quantity from the iso wash will outweigh
the results of the 1st 2 butane extractions, which is why I would like to have a
better idea how much kief to use with a can of butane, in the first place.
If I used a device like the mark III terpenator, how much kief would I be able to
extract, in how long?
Enjoy Labor Day
Thanks as always
Steve
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 3, 2013 at 1:15 PM
I usually extract kif at least three times with a thermos. It is hard to get it to
dissolve without agitation and agitation will speed the butane on its way.
A thermos will extract more resin than a column, but is more work.
We run a 1 1/2 X6 column on the Mk IIIA for extraction bubble and kif. I
usually use four 10 second floods for full extraction. It leaves behind a light
tan dry non sticky duff.
Posted by Steve Weglein on September 3, 2013 at 5:53 PM
I guess learned several things with this trial. The ss Thermos will hold
wildly too much kief to ever get extracted. I put about 2 ozs of prime
kief in the thermos it appeared to be half full one can of butane
was well above the kief. I think a can of butane will only absorb
enough thc to result in the range of 6 grams of Absolute Amber (after
winterizing with ethanol). I would rough it out at about 15 grams of
kief, 20 grams to be really sure, that can be dissolved by the butane in
the thermos. It really appears that to use kief with butane requires a
closed system why bother creating kief, if you can blow thru a tube
full of flowers (that could have been turned into kief) and get the same
return. The closed system changes the dynamics.
The kief that was not dissolved by the 2 butane runs, I decided to
dissolve in 99%isopropanol. I learned a few things in that as well. I let
the iso and the kief remains sit overnight, and used a generous
amount of iso to insure that I got almost all the remaining thc.
Talk about green what a surprise to me how green the iso was after
filtering, as the kief was light golden in color. I put this filtered iso-thc
liquid in a jar in the sun for no more than 2 hours and it was no longer
green, but, more like dark honey color. It seemed to me that the
green broke down quicker in iso than it does in ethanol, as well.
I evaporated this in a pyrex dish with a fan and a hotpad on low. I
scooped off more than half (it still had some iso in it) and dissolved
the rest in 192 proof ethanol, which I then placed in 0f freezer to see
what might filter out. I was hoping at least the chlorophyll breakdown
products might filter out.
Another big surprise awaited me. After 24 hours in the freezer, I
filtered the liquid thru a coffee filter in a funnel, into another jar, all in
the freezer. Ive had the feeling in previous winterizings (standard
ones butane first then ethanol) that by the time the ethanol had all
drained thru the coffee filter, it had warmed up enough to redissolve
some of the waxes in the filter. which is why Ive switched to
filtering in the freezer. Anyway there was a relatively enormous
amount of tan color stuff. I recall you wrote in response to a
question recently that iso was not as good to use for winterizing ..
this certainly bears that out ethanol is much pickier.
I put this ethanol filtered liquid in a pyrex dish over a hot pad on low,
with a fan blowing gently on it. When the thc coated the bottom, I
poured the whitish liquid off carefully, but thoroughly, as it can only
contain impurities, as thc does not dissolve at all well in water. I
scraped scooped the remaining product it was not quite hardened
(still some ethanol to remove) into a cupcake paper made out of
parchment (quite a convenience for the final purge). Into my vacuum
chamber (which is (shudder) a ball jar with a vacuum hose thru the lid
that Ive used for more than a year without problem) which rest on a
hotpad on high. The ball jar allows me to watch whats happening from
all sides. As there is very little alcohol left I can carefully vacuum off
the remaining alcohol in the parchment dish, working with letting in
some air if the muffin puffs up too much . and not have to change
the oil in my vacuum pump.
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The results have all the holes that my honeycomb use to have . but
are rock hard, not at all waxey or soft and not sticky in the
slightest. When held up to the light the thinner parts are very much
amber, while the thicker parts are somewhat darker.
The other part of iso product that I originally scooped off, I dissolved
in ethanol and put in the freezer . but this time I will leave it there a
2nd day as well, in the hopes of removing even more impurities.
Is it possible to winterize somehow, by dissolving an iso or ethanol
created raw thc resin in butane (not in a closed system), and then
filtering and evaporating and purging the butane?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 11, 2013 at 4:40 PM
Winterizing is redissolving a non polar extract in a polar
solvent and freezing to drop out the non polar waxes. Butane is
less polar than Iso, so wouldnt work the other way around.
Posted by Bhombsnotbombs on September 2, 2013 at 9:26 AM
Just wondering if there is any way to de-wax your product and still produce a
honeycomb consistency ? Or is it really the waxes and lipids pulled off during
extraction that cause the butter or honeycomb consistency ?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 3, 2013 at 8:24 AM
You can turn winterized oil to wax, but weve never tried to turn it into
honeycomb.
Posted by Peter McDonald on August 28, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Perhaps i am ignorant but someone please comment as to galvanized steel. It is
conspicuously absent from the analysis of column materials. What is the problem
with zinc?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 31, 2013 at 7:29 AM
Zinc is a heavy metal that is readily attacked by both high and low Phs.
Posted by gilmourof curtis on August 27, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Is there such a thing as solventless winterization? I think my friend wants to
remove fats and lipids some full-melt cold-water. Sorry if im posting in the wrong
thread.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 31, 2013 at 7:35 AM
Not that Im aware of.
Posted by Taylor on August 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM
Hey Skunk Farm
just wanted to thank you guys for the outstanding amount of info you have
provided, if used both you thermos and column techniques to make some fantastic
oil.
My question is one of opinion. We (myself and friend) were talking about refluxing
in DCM(dichloromethane) and have a condenser above the evaporation flask
so the solvent heats up but goes back down the condenser when it turns to gas.
Just wondering your thoughts and recommendations on this technique
Thanks a lot guys, again, by far the most reliable and legitimate info you could
possibly find on extracting oils anywhere
Cheers,
Taylor
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 27, 2013 at 7:41 AM
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I dont like Methylene Chloride for extractions, because of its health hazards
like cancer, and mutations, etc.
Section 11: Toxicological Information
RTECS#:
CAS#: 7 5-09-2: PA8050000
LD50/LC50: CAS# 7 5-09-2: Draize test, rabbit, eye: 162 mg Moderate;
Draize test, rabbit, eye: 10 mg Mild; Draize test,
rabbit, eye: 500 mg/24HMild; Draize test, rabbit, skin: 810 mg/24HSevere;
Draize test, rabbit, skin: 100 mg/24HModerate;
Inhalation, mouse: LC50 = 14400 ppm/7 H; Inhalation, rat: LC50 = 52
gm/m3; Oral, mouse: LD50 = 87 3 mg/kg; Oral, rat: LD50
= 1600 mg/kg;
Carcinogenicity: CAS# 7 5-09-2:
ACGIH: A3 Confirmed animal carcinogen with unknown relevance to
humans California: carcinogen, initial date 4/1/88
NIOSH: potential occupational carcinogen
NTP: Suspect carcinogen
OSHA: Possible Select carcinogen
IARC: Group 2Bcarcinogen
Epidemiology: There are few reports of injury despite widespread use of
dichloromethane (ACGIH, 1991). Solvent abuse has
led to death (Harbison, 1998).
Teratogenicity: Inhalation, rat: TCLo = 4500 ppm/24H(female 1-17 day(s)
after conception) Effects on Newborn behavioral.;
Inhalation, rat: TCLo = 1250 ppm/7 H(female 6-15 day(s) after conception)
Specific Developmental Abnormalities -musculoskeletal system and
urogenital system.
Reproductive Effects: Reproductive effects have occurred in experimental
animals.
Neurotoxicity: No information available.
Mutagenicity: DNA inhibition: Human, Fibroblast = 5000 ppm/1H
(Continuous).; Morphological transformation: Rat, Embryo
= 160 umol/L.; DNA damage: Oral, rat = 127 5 mg/kg.; Inhalation, mouse:
TCLo = 2000 ppm/5H/2Y-C (Tumorigenic -
Carcinogenic by RTECS criteriaLungs, Thorax, or Respiration Tumors).
Other Studies: See actual entry in RTECS for complete information.
Posted by Taylor on August 27, 2013 at 11:17 AM
Would you say after a extensive purge in a vaccum chamber with
heat, that you would still be concerned about the toxicity levels? I
found the thermos technique allowed plenty of time for the bud to
soak in butane for all essential oils and alcohols to dissolve, buy DCM
would allow an extended soak time
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 31, 2013 at 7:37 AM
All of the solvents can be removed below levels of immediate
health concern, but I consider the longer term chronic effects,
when things have been identified as a carcinogen, teratogen,
mutagen, etc.
Posted by Taylor on August 28, 2013 at 12:08 PM
As well would refluxing in other organic solvents like toluene or
hexane be a viable option? OR perhaps a acetone reflux with a toluene
wash of the crude oil?
Sorry for all the questions! Trying see if refluxing will increase yield in
anyway. Again thanks for all the help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 31, 2013 at 7:34 AM
Hexane works well if adequately purged so as to not raise
concerns for 2.5 dione metabolites.
Tolulene concerns me from a mutagen, teratogen, and birth
defect standpoint.
Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Dermal contact. Eye
contact. Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals:
WARNING: THELC50 VALUES HEREUNDER AREESTIMATED
ON THEBASIS OF A 4-HOUR EXPOSURE. Acute oral
toxicity (LD50): 636 mg/kg [Rat]. Acute dermal toxicity
(LD50): 14100 mg/kg [Rabbit]. Acute toxicity of the vapor
(LC50): 440
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24 hours [Mouse].
Chronic Effects on Humans:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4 (Not classifiable for human or
animal.) by ACGIH, 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC.
May cause damage to the following organs: blood, kidneys, the
nervous system, liver, brain, central nervous system (CNS).
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of
inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact
(permeator).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals:
Lowest Published Lethal Dose: LDL [Human] Route: Oral;
Dose: 50 mg/kg LCL [Rabbit] Route: Inhalation; Dose: 55000
ppm/40min
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:
Detected in maternal milk in human. Passes through the
placental barrier in human. Embryotoxic and/or foetotoxic in
animal.
May cause adverse reproductive effects and birth defects
(teratogenic). May affect genetic material (mutagenic)
Posted by Robert Gon August 26, 2013 at 9:35 AM
What is the consistency of the absolute in the picture above? Ive most recently
been using a box fan w/an a/c filter on the intake to purge as much of the ethanol
as possible after the 48 hour soak, by placing my open topped Pyrex in front of the
fan on full speed. I dont get any foreign items in the oil, as the filter is obviously
effective in catching any visible contaminates &the air flow keeps anything on the
other side of the fan from falling into the dish. This has saved me the headache of
changing the vacuum oil out, at all, during the entire oven purge. Also, bubbles
have been limited to very few in # @ 115 &my sea level adjusted vacuum level. I
feel as if the purge would be complete in 30 mins. This time I came out with hard
shatter in the amount of time I would have yielded goo, had I not used the fan
purge. Which brings me to my point: I feel as though Ive lost flavor &aroma w/the
hard shatter vs. the goo. It may be that I had shatter long before I removed it from
the oven, but I wanted to find out which you prefer if everything is done properly.
Best Regards,
Robert
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 27, 2013 at 7:36 AM
The absolute in the picture is shatter and flint hard. I had to warm it to
scrape it up.
Some monoterpenes are lost with winterizing, as they leave with the alcohol
whether you use heat or vacuum. It is a trade, as some of them smell and
maybe even taste good, but add harshness to the oil when vaporized.
Using a fan works well when the humidity is low, but alcohol is hygroscopic
and on a high humidity day, you may end up with a lot of water in the
alcohol, and a light tan watery solution toward the end.
Posted by Robert Gon August 27, 2013 at 12:13 PM
Ah, I see. That would not be good. Luckily, Im in Colorado. Not much
humidity to speak of, but I will keep an eye on it. What humidity level
would be a show stopper? I imagine on most days, Id be fine
outdoors. But, if theres a more preferable method, lmk! I also make
kava and kratom tinctures, &I use a still to remove the ethanol from
those Im considering selling it and just getting a cold trap. Do you
guys endorse, or have you begun selling, a cold trap such as the one
you designed? $500 sounds a lot better than $3500. One more
question: Approximately, what amount of time would you say it takes
in the oven @ 115 w/vac, considering the ethanol is nearly dissolved
at the start? Thank you so much for the info! There are many people
enjoying much higher quality, and healthier, medicine because of the
time you guys have so generously put into spreading the truth.
Best Regards,
Robert G
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 31, 2013 at 7:50 AM
Probably below 50%.
Still playing with our cold trap design but will publish more
build information after I have run it longer and tweaked the
operating parameters.
Cold boiling is slooow. It takes all day to pump off a quart.
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Posted by Robert Gon September 28, 2013 at 3:43 PM
How warm do you get it to facilitate scraping?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 29, 2013 at 7:16 AM
100F or so.
Posted by Funkydslr on August 24, 2013 at 5:40 PM
How would you recommend one purge 100+ grams of oil at a time. Its usually
split between 2, 5 gallon vac chambers down to 30hg for 6 hours at a time, but its
still not shatter at the end. Even exposing it to as much surface area as possible at
110 degrees isnt quite producing patient quality results. Lost at this point.
Thanks for the help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 25, 2013 at 5:37 AM
I would split up the sample into more lots, so that I could run them in a thin
film at 115F and -29.5 Hg. It takes less than an hour, so you could run it six
times in 6 hours.
6 hours at even 110F is long enough to partially decarboxylate, which will
leave it soft.
Posted by tony on August 23, 2013 at 11:38 PM
I got a question I did a run my bho came out sappy orange an its unstable even if I
put it in the vac for hrs what should I do? It looks bright red orange see thru.
Thanks
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 24, 2013 at 5:55 AM
Purdy clear, but sappy can be retained solvent or partially decarboxylation.
What temperature did you run it at in the vacuum?
Posted by Winterization of Concentrates and Oleoresin: A Practical Application - BreedBay on August 22,
2013 at 11:18 PM
[] rn rn-Skunk Pharm Researchrnrnrnrn Quote:rn rn []
Posted by ched on August 21, 2013 at 1:43 PM
Hi Skunk Pharm. Thanks for the write up and consistent commenting. I have
typically been doing small runs (roughly 11g of plant material in my extract tube)
and my typical methodology is as such:
-pre-freeze nugs for about 20 minutes or so
-pack tube with nugs broken up as little as possible to preserve cell membranes,
trying to get an even pack
-blast directly onto an oil slick mat which is lining a pyrex dish, then float this dish
in a large pot of water on the stove
i use an IR thermometer making sure to keep the surface temp of the oil pad <
115F, letting this go for a few hours until bubbling has stopped. At this point, I
usually use the oil slick pad to roll the oil onto itsself. This results in pretty much
0%loss by way of dust from scraping and such, but the last couple times i've done
it, after a few days my oil has gone from a nice log toliterally sappy sometimes
liquidy oil. Clearly I am doing something wrong (especially since my reason for
blasting is to load into my portable vape which works best with shatters.
So I guess my questions are:
A) For this size and purpose would you recommend the standard extractor tube
method or the thermos method
and
B) When you're ready to finally empty your oil once the evaporation has taken
place, how are you doing this? Am i understanding correctly that you're re-
dissolving your BHOin ethanol and then re-evaporating this? Are you still able to
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get shatters this way and do you feel like you're having any additional product loss
by this additional dissolving?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 23, 2013 at 5:42 PM
For 11 grams I would use a thermos.
I redissolve in ethanol and freeze the alcohol mixture for 48 hours to
precipitate out the waxes, and then filter the solution to remove them.
If I reliably want shatter, I then cold boil the alcohol away at 115F and -
29.5 Hg vacuum.
Posted by jesse on August 21, 2013 at 5:27 AM
hey guys hope all is well. so people are finding that there is a mystery oil in
canned butane(possibly a lubricant for the lighters its meant for?) my question is if
activated carbon would remove it
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 21, 2013 at 9:19 AM
My guess is the mystery oil is Pentane, the closest heavier fraction to
butane, that would be a liquid at ambient. The other two fractions present in
butane are propane and isobutane, but they wouldnt be a liquid at ambient
temperatures.
Pentane does a pristine extraction, is easily purged, and of low toxicity.
All of the simple alkanes are single bonded carbon atoms, with the
remaining bonds filled with hydrogen, including the longer chain alkanes
used for lubricating oil. Why anyone would have to add a lubricating oil for
the valve is the pregnant question, because it not only isnt required using
butane, it would not feed well through the small orifices of a butane lighter
and would produce poor flame characteristics.
Posted by Dave on August 22, 2013 at 11:43 AM
How would one go about removing the Pentane?
A few people are saying that this mystery oil might make open
blasting a thing of the past
thoughts?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 23, 2013 at 5:37 PM
We like to purge at 115F and -29.5 Hg.
As a tongue in cheek thought, it is certainly one more good
reason to use a closed system, but that conjecture before the
mystery oil is identified would be premature. It is certainly of
concern until it is, but it could easily be things that we already
know are in butane, such as oleaginous waxes and sulfur
compounds at low levels, which are being concentrated.
Posted by Alaskan Dromie on August 19, 2013 at 2:40 PM
First off, thanks for all the amazing detailed info! A buddy from jointogether
referred me to your site and I must say, I love how in depth and explanatory you
make everything that said, is there any way to remove the waxes while
preserving the terpenes? Id like to remove the waxes, but as the terpenes are also
extremely beneficial medicinally and also add flavor Id like to keep them. Sorry if
you covered that at some point, any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
again
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 21, 2013 at 8:34 AM
You can winterize while its still suspended in Butane using a dry ice bath.
Its not as effective but the wax concentration will be significantly reduced.
Posted by Alaskan Dromie on August 23, 2013 at 3:15 AM
Ah I dont really have the option of doing that where Im at, thanks
for the suggestion though. What percent weight do you usually lose if
removing the waxes and terpenes?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 23, 2013 at 5:05 PM
8 to 20%
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Posted by Brad on August 16, 2013 at 8:34 PM
Ill first make an assumption (yeah I know) that no-one else has posted this in the
replys below I just dont have time to read them all.
Secondly Ill say how excellent I consider MOST of the info on this site, even
though Im about to criticize just a few facts.
The article above states:
Butane Honey Oil, or BHO, is the essential oil from the cannabis plant, extracted
using n-Butane as a solvent. If it is extracted from fresh material, it is a Concrete,
and if from cured material, it is an Oleoresin. A concrete or an oleoresin that has
been winterized to remove the waxes, lipids, and fats, is known as an Absolute.
In fact the essential oil of cannabis was clearly defined about a century ago (before
THCs structure was known) and IT HAS NOT CHANGEDfrom being the volatile
fraction obtained via steam distillation (only ~0,5-2%by wt. of cannabis).
Cannabis essential oil (which is available from at least 2 essential oil sellers I know
of: one Canadian produced and one Swiss produced) is totally legal worldwide,
since it is devoid of any cannabinoids and is composed almost entirely of terpenes
and terpenoids (there is a slight diff.).
BHOis in fact basically a mixture of the cannabis essential oil + cannabis
cannabinoids (absolute) + cannabis waxes and lipids (which includes fats) + traces
of a few other impurities.
I would suggest that BHOis in fact a concrete whether extracted from fresh
material or cured material, since the only difference would be a slightly lower level
of volatile components (mainly the essential oil) and most concretes produced by
the essential oil industry (mainly for perfumery &food flavorings) are made from
dried (and/or cured) plant material which is almost identical in composition to
that of fresh plant material.
An oleoresin is normally extracted from plant material using Ethanol, which
dissolves both lipophilic (fat soluble) as well as hydrophilic (water soluble)
compounds and thus produces a product with a whole bunch of additional
impurities not found in a lipophilic extract eg. from hexane (the standard solvent
in industry) or liquid butane extraction. Thus a concrete will produce an absolute
upon winterization (wax &lipid precipitation), however an alcohol extracted
oleoresin will not form a true absolute upon winterization, since additional
impurities are present.
Otherwise, guys keep up the damn good work at SPR!!!
Just say know
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 24, 2013 at 7:09 AM
Thanks for the insight bro and sorry to take so long to answer this one, but I
kept setting it aside to go read Geunther some more before answering.
Tis true that Essential Oils were first extracted using steam and thus only
included the mono and sesquiterpenes, while the cannabinoids are
diterpenes with too high a boiling point for saturated steam.
It is also technically correct that nothing extracted using a solvent
therefore qualifies and that is technically absolutely correct, but given that
we are extracting the exact same mono and sesquiterpenes and the
diterpenes using a solvent, for some of the audience that is cutting the
details a mite thin.
In the spirit of cannabis Active oils extraction, Absolute Amber is a term
covering a mixture of essential oils, ranging from Isoprenes, to poly-
terpenes, that was extracted using a non polar solvent and winterized using
a polar solvent.
If you are selling cannabis essential oils in most places in the US, you are in
violation of both local and federal laws if they contain the diterpenes like the
cannabinoids, so that thin slice of fact would be damn important, so it is an
excellent point.
I will review my verbiage and amend it to reflect the difference.
The biggest problem with mono-terpenes is not extracting them with a
solvent, it is holding on to them while evaporating away the solvent. Many
are alcohols, ethers, aldehydes, ketones, etc, with a high vapor pressure
themselves, so are happy to leave with the alcohol being distilled off.
In fact, if you sniff and taste the alcohol distilled off using a simple pot still, it
will be a gin like spirit, tasting of floral mono-terpenes.
Same with vacuuming off the solvent without heat, the vacuum pump oil
begins to smell more floral than the end product.
With steam, they just condense the steam and float off the oil as it falls out of
suspension. They also market the condensed steam as a hydrosol.
Weve considered steam extraction for the mono and sesqui-terpenes,
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followed by solvent stripping the remaining terpenes, and recombining
them, but need to mock up an experiment before jumping in with both feet,
because the steam may have some effect on the quality of the heavier
terpenes.
I thought we had a joint experiment set up with a steam extractor, but it
didnt work out, so were holding that experiment off until I complete the
fractionating still and we can run a column of material on it, vis a vis the
fractionating column packed with stainless ribbon.
Probably not as efficient as the big boys, but it should still tell us enough to
know whether we wish to proceed with something more elaborate and
spendy.
Posted by Gary on August 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM
If I extracted in to a teflon evaporating dish (like the one I posted in the link
below) thats in a pyrex dish with some vegetable oil in it; on a hot a plate to do the
heat purge. Then I put the teflon dish in the freezer. Would it just come out without
scraping? Is this a good idea to use PTFE?
Thanks for any help and this awesome resource.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 17, 2013 at 9:35 AM
There are folks using and swearing by PTFEand as long as you dont burn it,
it should be good. When burned, it releases HF acid. Unless you are scraping
with a blade, I dont see PTFEgetting into an extract.
Posted by Gary on August 15, 2013 at 3:30 PM
If I extracted in to a teflon evaporating dish (like the one I posted in the link
below). That is in a pyrex dish with some vegetable oil in it; on a hot a plate; to do
the heat purge. Then I put the teflon dish in the freezer. Would it just come out
without scraping? Is this a good plan for my first run?
Thanks for any help and this awesome site.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 24, 2013 at 7:10 AM
It should work.
Thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by doc martens mortorcycle boots on August 24, 2013 at 4:43 PM
Hey there! Ive been following your website for a long time now and
finally got the bravery to go ahead and give you a shout out from
Lubbock Texas! Just wanted to tell you keep up the good work!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 25, 2013 at 6:16 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts bro!
Looking at your address, I dont blame you for your concern!
Good luck, and keep up your own good work! Do drop in for tea
and crumpets if you are in the area!
Peace, GW
Posted by mikey on August 14, 2013 at 3:11 PM
thanks for all of the helpful information. i have been spraying onto a silicone mat
untill i have read your article on the sponge like characteristics of said mats.
with that being said, the talk about spraying into pyrex pans has me thinking about
the gathering process and having product lost on the sides of the pan. are there
any helpful hints or tools to be used and achieve a clean run with a high yield and
minimizing the contaminates in my errl.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 15, 2013 at 6:27 AM
Either freezing the extract to make it super brittle and easy to chip with a
razor, or washing it out with ethanol and winterizing it work for us.
I also sometimes wash oil out with the minimum amount of alcohol, and
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then evaporate that off using vacuum, if the yield is small and Im trying to
preserve every last shred.
Posted by Robert Gon August 31, 2013 at 11:35 AM
Hmm, Ive been winterizing and finishing in a pyrex dish. I was going
to use silicone, but read about the reaction. What do you use?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 31, 2013 at 1:07 PM
Pyrex.
Posted by CrackityJones on September 1, 2013 at 1:59 PM
Ah, so you still have the corners and sides to deal with
after winterizing. Be nice if there were 90* angles. One
thing I use that helps: a razor blade scraper Find it on
amazon. I think its typically used for taking off window
tent. Provides a handle, reach and leverage.
Posted by Sterling on December 18, 2013 at 3:22 PM
make a boat out of parchment to set in your pyrex. once your butane boils
off and your oil hardens a bit it will stick to itself and not the parchment so
much. easy to handle and no loss or mess. also easier i find to do low temp
purges by setting it on top of a glass bowl in heated water by a hot
plate/crock pot of some sort.
Posted by Sterling on December 18, 2013 at 3:27 PM
I wanted to clarify the importance of the parchment not overly
touching the glass so as to be heated by the air and thus maintaining a
lower temp than the heating device can reach on its own with
previous methods. i have only done this with small quantities 1-6gm.
Posted by Chris on August 12, 2013 at 9:08 PM
If a column is loaded with frozen material and the extractor is reassembled and
then drawn into a vacuum, doesnt the frozen material thaw out? I recently put
some dry trim in an open container and put it into the refrigerator rather than
using the oven. It seems to have dehydrated the trim nicely. Is this an acceptable
technique or is the trim being damaged in some way?
I have been getting excellent test results on my oil and owe it to Skunk Pharms!
Thank you
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 13, 2013 at 5:26 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts Chris!
Yes, frozen material thaws out in a column, but the injected butane is close
to freezing temperatures, so it still stays cold. It refreezes again during final
vacuum recovery.
Freezing to tie up the water is an acceptable technique, and one which we
use with fresh cut material.
Posted by Gary on August 8, 2013 at 11:10 PM
Anyone use a teflon evaporating dish? Seems like a good idea.
http://www.dynalabcorp.com/wc1/productdetail.aspx?
catalogid=1&categoryID=1&subcategoryid=1411&catcode=R&subcatcode=49&subcatdesc=Additional%20Products%20%20%20%20%20%20&subcat3code=&subcat3desc=&subcat2code=D&subcat2desc=Evaporating+Dishes+++++++&itemnumber=5531-
0400%20%20%20%20%20%20&price=50.6240
Posted by Hands on August 6, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Ive not tried the BHOmethod, but I just had a thought for the thermos extraction.
Would setting a stainless steel thermos inside a custom dry ice cooler surrounded
by the dry ice for an extended period of time allow for the material to be
winterized in the butane before filtering it the first time? I wonder if the
maintaining temperatures of the Butane and Dry Ice would correspond to cause
winterization, but I guess that would depend on the key factors that result in the
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catalyst of winterizing. . . thoughts? You guys are my heros Cheers
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 7, 2013 at 8:20 AM
Winterizing is extracting with a non polar solvent like butane and then
redissolving the extract in a polar solvent like alcohol, before freezing for 48
hours or so, and filtering out the precipitated waxes.
It works because the polar solvent really doesnt like the non polar waxes
much and dumps them first as its ability to hold the solute in solution falls as
its temperature drops. That wouldnt happen the same using a non polar
solvent for both.
Posted by Hands on August 9, 2013 at 1:44 PM
I see thanks for the clarification. After reading your QWET method,
I see that you are starting with ethanol and then winterizing with the
same solvent? Basically why is it that the polar to polar in that case is
working or am I missing something? I apologize if this is a stupid
question as I am still refreshing all the distant memories of my
chemistry lessons. Thank you for you patience, Bless
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 13, 2013 at 6:11 AM
Not a stupid question, because it improves it very little and is a
nuance.
Posted by chris on August 5, 2013 at 12:18 AM
So the removal of carboxylic acids will make oil sappy in texture? True or false??
And what is cold boiling?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 5, 2013 at 5:15 AM
True, removing the COOHgroup from the oil molecule softens it and makes
it sappy.
Cold boiling is dropping the absolute pressure on a solvent, by using a
vacuum, so that it boils at ambient temperatures.
Posted by chris on August 5, 2013 at 8:19 PM
Thank you, your a great resource.
Posted by chris on August 3, 2013 at 2:31 PM
Also as im doing bigger runs than my usual im not getting shatter from C4H10
extraction. Purged at sun temp in in the PNW. Why is this? is it too thick? Whats
your suggested thickness? And its confusing because when i was doing smaller
runs i got great shatter every time. novac used
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 4, 2013 at 7:31 AM
1/8 or less.
Posted by chris on August 2, 2013 at 2:15 PM
How would you go about processing a QP of bud that is old and dry? Hand break it
up then use butane?, NaCL wash? Wintetize? Should i freeze the plant matter?Going
to chose quality and color over quantity. Thank you
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 5, 2013 at 5:29 AM
A non polar solvent will be more forgiving with dessicated plant matter. I
would do a BHOextraction and winterize it to see what I got, before
planning anything more elaborate.
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Posted by Zipdeez on August 2, 2013 at 11:16 AM
Do you usually always winterize your bho? I have been blasting bho for a long time
never have tried winterizing it with ISO. Have recently been enlightened into
using it to make shatter. Is washing your bho with alc usually a good outcome? I
simply blast, heat purge, then throw it in the vac oven. It almost always honey
combs after awhile.
Thanks for the amazing site.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 5, 2013 at 6:16 AM
Winterizing removes the plant waxes and I do usually winterize my extracts
because I dont want the waxes coating my lungs when I vaporize, diluting
my oral meds, or lingering behind on the skin when used topically.
Moderation in all things, including moderation. Sometimes I dont winterize
to achieve a particular effect, usually as requested by others, but sometimes
just for more flavor.
Posted by scott zcollett on August 1, 2013 at 9:15 PM
I was just wondering if you have been around or have any knowledge of expression
extractions of cannabis.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 2, 2013 at 7:40 AM
Not by that name. What is expression extraction of cannabis?
Posted by scott zcollett on August 2, 2013 at 8:38 PM
it is cold pressed at extremely high pressure that gets slowly
increased. Dont know too much about it myself and was looking for
insight. You can google the process as there are 3 different types.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 4, 2013 at 7:39 AM
Because the resin is in the trichomes, vis a vis inside of the
plant material, I cant visualize how cold pressing could be
used to extract cannabis essential oils.
A good book on extracting essential oils using the various
processes, which you might enjoy and find useful, is The
Essential Oils, Volume 1, by Guenther.
Posted by @zueBlombie on August 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM
its pressed into a liquid then the essential oils float to the
surface where they are siphoned off
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 13, 2013 at 6:29 AM
Ummmmmmmm, context?
Sounds like a description of cold press extraction.
Posted by 215dank on August 1, 2013 at 1:22 AM
I have two questions for you. the first is have you ever seen what I would assume
to be floating waxes and frozen water in your oil after sparying but before all the
liquid tane has evaped? My theory is since the butane is below freezing at this time
they become solid, they look almost like little icebergs and I seem to get more of
these when i chill my butane before blasting. I have seperated these a few times
and they always become cloudy and gross looking oil with sugary water like
pockets. just wondering if you could give me more knowledge on what this is or if
you have experienced this.
My next question is have you ever heard of using uv to break down cellulose in
bho? I was recently told since cellulose is hygroscopic the uv will help break it
down in return breaking down the waxes and water held by that cellulose. Doing
this should benefit the clarity and make it alot harder to achieve a butter/wax like
state. Yet again would just like to hear your thoughts on this.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 1, 2013 at 8:19 AM
Yes, when we spray in a shallow dish, the humidity from the air forms ice
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around the edge of the evaporating pool of butane and contaminates our oil
with water. That is why we started spraying into a bain marie pot, sitting in
hot water, so that the evaporating butane keeps the moisture laden air out
of the pot and away from the evaporating pool.
Cellulose is not readily broken down by UV light, so Im unsure of how such
a thing might work. Do you have more detail?
Posted by 215dank on August 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jctb.2632/abstract
http://www.conservationphysics.org/detcell/detcell.pdf
To my knowledge it could be broken down by uv but this is something
new that I have only experimented with a few times giving intersting
results. Im no expert on the subject yet but it may be something to
look at
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 2, 2013 at 9:44 AM
Breaking down cellulose with UV is a long term project, not
something typically done in an essential oil, because the same
UV is at least an order of magnitude more damaging to the
aromatic alkene hydrocarbons.
Plants use cellulose in their structure, specifically because it is
strong and UV resistant.
One of the above studies uses titanium dioxide to catalyze a
faster degradation and the other is a long term study.
My first question would be why there is cellulose in the BHOin
the first place?
If I found some and wanted it out, I would personally use a 0.2
micron syringe filter, not try to break it down into byproducts
that would remain behind in the oil.
Posted by 215dank on August 2, 2013 at 2:24 PM
http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/hfsg.1964.18.issue-
1-2/hfsg.1964.18.1-2.24/hfsg.1964.18.1-2.24.xml
I guess those werent the best examples to link but you
get the point that it is able to be broken down by uv, just
another reason why growers give their plants 48 hours
darkness before chopping due to degradation of trichs.
there arent many scientific studies I could find on uvs
reaction with trichome cellulose. Cellulose is not desired
in the extract but usually comes through with the
trichromes during extraction since they are incased in a
wall of it. Cellulose generally makes its way into your
extract hence winterization to process it but if you
winterize your extract you will remove valuable
terpines that could be saved with low heat and uv IF this
tech really works. I appreciate your insight and
knowledge, thanks for helping me to get to the bottom of
this and see if theirs any truth behind it.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 5, 2013 at 5:28 AM
The cellulose comes along with the trichomes when dry
sieving or making bubble hash, but isnt extracted by
Butane. There should be no cellulose that needs to be
broken down.
Posted by chris on July 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM
Should i run fresh frozen then dried for a 2 days or cure my plant matter before i
blast or should i use liquid nitrogen to lock up all the chlorophyll and blast away.
Im aware that ice formed on leaves will not release the heads. This is for
vaporization and plan on making it absolute later, i really would like to have pretty
bho to start bfor i winterize it. Also i was told that 80-110 is shatter 110-120 is
wax and 140-160 is sappy? Whats your take?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 1, 2013 at 7:40 AM
We make shatter from ambient to about 115F. Wax can be made at a wide
range of temperature and time at vacuum, but 140/160F will partially
decarboxylate and be sappy.
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Posted by chris on August 1, 2013 at 2:44 PM
Thank you, but im still lost a lil bit lost heres the scenario, 1lb fresh
cut frozen (A-grade)trim strain black berry kush, i let it air dry for, 2
days till it was dry but still soft like . Put plant matter in 2 x 2 vessel.
Extracted in a small Pyrex pan an used the sun to purge it was about
1-2 inchs in thickness and got very dark oil sappy, amber when light is
behind it. My variables are ( plant matter dryness) (heat useds during
extraction) ( oil thickness over all) ive seen the same strain in wax
look light in color mine is dark what should i change to achieve a
lighter oil in color and get shatter every time? Thank you for your
help
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 2, 2013 at 9:57 AM
Sun purging can get the alcohol solution hot enough to
caramelize plant sugars. Cold boiling under vacuum would
eliminate that variable.
The color of the trichomes when harvested can also have an
effect on the color or the oil. Amber trichomes make a darker
oil than clear or cloudy trichomes.
Posted by www.youtube.comclip emusic on July 30, 2013 at 11:15 AM
Howdy! I could have sworn Ive been to this blog before but after browsing
through a few of the posts I realized its new to me.
Nonetheless, Im certainly happy I stumbled upon it and Ill be bookmarking it and
checking back regularly!
Posted by Bikini on July 28, 2013 at 7:13 AM
My Brother was given 14 months to live when the Doctor finds out that his body
cannot take Chemo anymore. ever since then, the family have been in pain
knowing that they where going to loose a precious son that was just 23 years old to
Cancer of the lungs. my mother did a lot of research when she found out that
cannabis oil was the cure all medication for cancerous diseases, that was highly
guaranteed to cure all cancers and other various diseases. my mother bought the
Hemp oil for my brother and he has just completed his treatment 3 weeks back. his
latest test result indicated that his cancer has been gone without a single trace in
his system. Thanks to Rick Simpson and Thomas Kelvin where the Hemp oil was
purchase. (edit address)
This really is a miracle to the new generation. Bikini
Posted by MB on July 27, 2013 at 1:29 PM
Hey guys I had a question about silicone baking dishes.
My process involves me spraying directly into a container with 192 Proof
Alcohol. My question is that once the butane has evaporated and I am just left
with the alcohol solution, is it safe to tranfer this into a silicon baking dish for final
evaporation of the alcohol?
This has made my life extremely easy but I am just curious if there is anything in
the alcohol that could react with the dish to bring in unwanted contaminents.
This is used for vaporizing
Thank you for your help..
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 28, 2013 at 9:49 AM
The Cole Palmer chemical compatability chart shows that silicone rubber is
only Good with ethyl alcohol. Here is the link and an explanation of what
good means:
http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance
Ratings Chemical Effect
A = Excellent.
B= Good Minor Effect,
slight corrosion or
discoloration.
C = Fair Moderate Effect,
not recommended for
continuous use. Softening,
loss of strength,
swelling may occur.
D= Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.
N/A = Information not
available.
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Posted by C4h10 on July 26, 2013 at 8:53 PM
Hello again! I was thinking of switching from un bleached coffee filters to paper lab
filters for the bottom of my column. I was wondering what micron size would be
best? And what kind of flow rate should I look for? I normally dont winterized and
its for vaporizing if that matters. Thanks for all the help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 28, 2013 at 10:09 AM
The coffee filters are about 20/25 micron nominal filters, so a lab filter in
that range would duplicate the results.
With a deadhead filter, flow rate is moot as it changes every time a particle
plugs a pore. If you stayed in the 10/25 micron range, I predict that it
would work.
Posted by Dro Hernandez on July 26, 2013 at 10:24 AM
Hello and thanx Pharm! Theres lots of insightful information given here, and
greatly appreciated. Ive ran about four extractions in my recent time, each time
trying a slightly different method. Ive attempted using a 12 glass tube, a small
honeybee extractor, and a large honeybee extractor, each time using dry cured
sugar trim mixed with small bottom of the barrel buds. Ive ran every tube twice,
meaning i used two cans per tube, and every time Ive yielded the same 4-5.5
grams.
Ive tried the hot water bath purge, as well as whipping the wax while under-
heating the pyrex. I really like the consistency of the wax i got back after whipping
and under heating most, but im really interested in trying a vacuum purge.. Can
you point me to link where i may be able to purchase a reliable inexpensive
vaccum, or if possible, a simple dys link.
My biggest issue i have is trying to produce a larger quantity, i havent been able to
get over 6 grams, using 2 cans with the same filled tube. Im really looking to
produce at least 1oz. Any help??
Thanks again S.PHARM
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 1, 2013 at 9:13 AM
How large an IDon the 12 tube?
You might try repacking your tube between cans.
Here are some links:
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/diy-vacuum-purging-
chamber/
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/vacuum-purging-and-
processing-tips/
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/vacuum-oven-controls-
upgrades/
Posted by greenbean on July 24, 2013 at 8:58 AM
Thermos or column? Which is better
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM
Depends on what you are making. What material and what end product do
you covet.
Posted by greenbean on July 28, 2013 at 5:35 AM
A quality oil to vaporize. Currently Im running a simple turkey
baster setup with average of 17 %or so after a single flow through. I
want to be as effective in recovering as much resin as possible aswell
of course. After emptying the turkey baster each run I have saved the
material for a second wash I was going to do with just ethanol rather
than butane again, because of such drop in quality of a second butane
wash, and just use it for edible meds. Edibles tend to not do much for
me so I was wondering if the thermos would recover more resin
effectively the first wash rather than the way I am doing it now?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 28, 2013 at 9:39 AM
At 17 %, you are pretty close and a thermos soak would pick up
more the first time. What are you pickling up after repacking
and making a second run?
Posted by greenbean on July 29, 2013 at 3:41 AM
I have yet to try that. I have been doing extractions for
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almost a year and just got serious about two or three
months ago. I have ran the column without repacking
out of curiosity one time and got a 1%return and the
quality was not near the same. This is why I was thinking
about just doing ethanol for the second wash and just
use for edibles. That being said, would it be worth the
extra work to go about the thermos method to retain
more yield the first wash
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 30, 2013 at 9:11 AM
The difference is in the neighborhood of 3%, of a lower
grad medication. The bigger question might be how
much that amount of time and effort are worth to you?
Posted by sshguy on July 24, 2013 at 5:07 AM
I read that everclear should not be used as to it having sugar and some sort of
flavoring in it. Could you clear that up for me?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 24, 2013 at 7:19 AM
A myth. The other 4.5%of Everclear is water. There is no flavoring added or
present in 190 proof ethanol.
Posted by sshguy on July 24, 2013 at 7:45 AM
thank u for such a fast response. If vaporizing, do you always
winterize? Return percentage is so minimal already I was hoping to
find it to not be needed, but after numerous days reading through
your site it seems to be highly recommended
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 25, 2013 at 5:52 PM
We dont always winterize, but we do for most of what we
vaporize. If you are vaporizing oil regularly, I would highly
recommend it.
Posted by HealingGreen on July 24, 2013 at 4:57 AM
First off id like to say thank you very much for your help to us all. I am looking to
end up with a flavorful end product that is smooth and does not irritate the throat
when vaporized. I currently vac purge the butane and it does a great job at doing
that but my throat still becomes irritated after vaporizing. Is winterizing going to
be my best option or should I only vacuum purge the butane if I want to keep any
flavor terpenes?
One other question I have is should I scrape up the bho from the pyrex and onto a
pad/parchment or would I benefit at all from putting the pyrex directly into the
vacuum chamber.
Thank you so much for your help.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 25, 2013 at 6:45 PM
Winterizing will reduce the harshness by removing the plant waxes that
induce coughing to expectorate them, and the monoterpene levels, which
can also add harshness, because some of them, like Pinene for instance, are
expectorants.
You can purge either way, but we like a Pyrex dish and a thin film purge
under vacuum.
Posted by HealingGreen on July 28, 2013 at 5:45 AM
Thank you for your help. Can u suggest anything for scraping the
pyrex with? I have tried razor blades and putty tools but it seems to
me they have coating on them and it scares me to use them. I usually
torch them to sanatize and get anything there could be off but after
they cool I notice a thin film of flaking. Should I not torch them and
just thoroughly wash with alcohol?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 28, 2013 at 9:33 AM
Acetone should remove the protective coating on the scrapers
if you soak them in it. It is a thin plastic coating to prevent
oxidation.
You could also torch them and use steel wool, but that will
wreck the temper in the scraper blades and they may no longer
be springy.
Posted by Pwankton on July 21, 2013 at 8:04 AM
Three questions:
1)In my quest for most efficient yield I found a recommendation for using stainless
steel extractor tubes of 1/2 IDmax in order to avoid butane channeling. Reports
of a significant increase over larger IDglass tubes in extracted yield, with no
quality loss, are given and to me it makes a lot of sense, just seems like a pain to
load. Your thoughts?
2)Using previously dried and cured material, I have been using a food dehydrator
for three or four hours at 95-100F before loading my typical glass flared boro
tubes. Using many different starting materials, regardless of age, all of my extracts
have ended up an amber colored shatter consistency. Aside from ease of handling,
is there any real advantage to making other end results, like wax or crumble? The
amber shatter that I end up with after a low heat vacuum purge is very nice but it
is all that I end up with, am I missing out on something?
3) Is budder merely a whipped extract or is something else done to it, like
isomerization, to make it more psychoactive?
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 21, 2013 at 9:01 AM
We found about 1 to be the upper IDlimit for an open extraction column
and anything under about 3/4 a royal pain to load and unload.
I personally prefer shatter, but have made wax for folks who wanted it in
that form. We make shatter first, and then turn it into wax.
The extra processing removes a significant amount of the monoterpenes,
which end up in the vacuum pump oil.
The reason that waxes smell so aromatic, even with fewer terpenes, is that
they started out concentrated in the first place, and so much more surface
area is exposed with the wax hydrates.
The down side to waxes, is that their aromatics and pungency are short
lived due to the extra surface area exposed to oxidation, so you need to use
them fast.
Budder is just a whipped extract that has turned into a hydrate. It is no
more potent than the oil it was made from.
Posted by skepler on July 21, 2013 at 7:47 AM
There are many comments regarding chlorophyll. I have long regarded this
component to be an irritant when smoked. Over the years of growing, last year I
had a few varieties of which I had two plants, and it was about to freeze at night. I
harvested one green, removed shade leaves, hung for a few days, and cut into 18
colas to age in containers. Trichromes just getting yellow. The second of each
variety, I let go through the frost, and harvested within the week. This lets the
chlorophyll break down into carotenes, reds and yellows of fall leaves, and
sweetens the smoke. I cant tell a difference in potency. I like to let my girls have a
long life in natural light of at least six months, they start budding about now, at 15
weeks. I think the commercially grown products miss out on this aspect. I would
be curious what yields commercial growers get/plant in their controlled short-
cycling of the plants life. I find yield doubles with an extra 4-6 weeks.
Posted by scott zcollett on July 18, 2013 at 2:48 PM
I just wanted to check with you to get an address for the bho class next weekend.
Im not very familiar with Portland and would like to know if there is ahotel in
walking distance or close where I can stay.
Thanks,
Scott
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 19, 2013 at 9:43 AM
I will be sending out that information to the class signup, but dont see you
listed this weekend. Did you send in an application?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 21, 2013 at 7:22 AM
Check you e-mail.
GW
Posted by Contact at VHon August 29, 2013 at 10:59 AM
you suck
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 30, 2013 at 8:35 AM
Well thank you, thank you very much! Coming from a person of
your level of taste and refinement, that is the best compliment
that you could possibly give!
Do I infer that you blow instead?
Posted by joey ellington on July 12, 2013 at 6:13 PM
I just got into extraction .So I just got a sweet ass glass Extractor for $25!, the
ends flange out so the filter will not fly off.. they sold kits for more money, but it
was just a mesh and a clamp coffee filter and a rubber band works just great..
Save the $ Dont get the expensive one, just get the cheap one.(It does the same) Its
small so you can run 20-25 grams at once. Perfect for the smoker, not the
grower.at http://www.puffnuggs.com/glass-honey-oil-extractor-tube-
kit.html I dont work there an am not spamming Just saying.
Anyways I ran the butane 2x like everyone said and didnt get that much return..
Can I run it 3 times? What am I doing wrong? There is pressure in the tube. Im
rinning a big can per oz.. Great herbs ect..
Thanks for your help
Joey
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 16, 2013 at 11:30 AM
$25 is a good price if it is a quality borosilicate column!
Not sure about the low return. That column shouldnt require more than
one can of butane. What was the material and how was it prepared?
Posted by MWiz on July 10, 2013 at 2:10 PM
My goal is to make nice flaky wax, instead of the sticky, sludgy product. I do not
have a vac oven, so I am purging the butane using boiling water, stirring, and time.
The material I use has ranged from fresh cut buds and leaves, to stuff that has been
cured and dried.
My problem is being consistent.
How can I consistently produce wax? And, would purchasing/making a vac oven
aide me in this quest?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 11, 2013 at 7:20 AM
The easiest way to reliably produce wax, is using a vacuum with heat.
Posted by chris on July 7, 2013 at 6:53 PM
Questions about running fresh trim/ popcorn nug. If its fresh cut you say its the
most pristine and its a concentrate. cured/ dry trim is Oleoresin.. Ive made
blonde bho crumble once but have failed the last 2 times i tried to repeat. Ive gotn
fresh off the plant trim/ popcorn thats been frozen, i dry it kinda for 2 days to
release the ice thats formed and then i run it. Im getting chlorophyll justa lil bit
but enough to make it darker than my usual. You talk about frozen fresh trim is
best but frozen w/ no humidity to avoid ice on surface. All i want is blonde oil
should i freeze fresh w/ no humidity or dry it more out what will make blonde
amber. Oil
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 8, 2013 at 1:39 PM
Oil color is strain specific, but on average a Sativa produces a lighter oil than
an Indica and the oil is lightest colored, when the trichomes are still clear.
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Heat caramelizes the plant sugars and darkens them, so the extraction and
purging has to be done with minimal heat.
A vacuum purge at around 115F at -29.5 Hg is the best way that we have
found to purge oil with minimal darkening.
Posted by eric on July 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM
hey so i did a propane run today and i liked the way it worked, but for some reason
it has a kinda odd way of drying out, any input on that ?, and also as well with a
recovery system when using mixed gas do find its better to do the soak or let it
pass through a few times
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 8, 2013 at 1:20 PM
We get the best results with a soak.
When you talk about the odd way of drying out, are you talking about the
cotton candy like extraction?
Posted by Eric on July 28, 2013 at 9:39 PM
Ya cotton candy like, but for some reason half the runs I do I cant get
them to dry out all the way. The bottom layer seems to stay sticky
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 30, 2013 at 9:06 AM
The lower layer may be too thick.
Posted by eric on July 30, 2013 at 9:34 AM
no it is super thin, and usually i dont have a problem, at
first i though it was humidity, and it could b,, but i have
been able to do runs in humidty just as high im at about
35%, the other issue is, could it be possible that my
revocery tank has contaminent in it?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 1, 2013 at 9:01 AM
If you put a thin film of the sticky material in a -29.5 Hg
vacuum at 115F, my guess is that you will find some
retained butane.
Posted by steve on July 5, 2013 at 1:43 PM
I am looking to produce a high quality wax made purely for smoking or vaping. If I
were to use the column method of extraction, would you recommend
decarboxylation? Also, what method of purging would you suggest?
PS. Thank you for providing all of us with quality information, knowledge can be
very hard to come by in my area.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 6, 2013 at 6:46 AM
No need to decarboxylate material for smoking or vaping. It will take care of
itself when you heat it.
Posted by eric on July 4, 2013 at 9:11 AM
hey so have you seen the machine from ETS, i have one and i was wondering if you
had any input on it, or if uve used it
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 5, 2013 at 8:56 AM
No, but if you can guide me to a link, Ill check it out!
GW
Posted by eric on July 5, 2013 at 11:37 AM
ya here it is, you may know who it is his name is matt,
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http://extractiontek.com/
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM
Once the kif is separated from the green plant material, you can
soak it in isopropyl as long as you like and you dont have to do
it frozen. Just mix them together and shake periodically until
dissolved.
Dont worry about the wash time with kif, only with frozen
green plant material when doing QWET or QWISO.
Technically, winterizing is extracting with a non polar solvent
and redissolving in a polar solvent, before freezing to coagulate
and precipitate the non polar plant waxes, so that they can be
removed by filtration.
Since Iso and ethanol are both polar, the best you can do is
extract with less polar isopropyl and winterize with the more
polar ethanol. Neither should pick up that many non polar
waxes anyway.
I suspect you mean that the trichomes, rather than the
terpenes settled to the bottom. After a solvent extraction, the
trichomes have their essential oil removed and it is mostly
stems and discs left. The resin will be in solution, not in
suspension, so wont settle or filter out.
Posted by chuckananda on July 2, 2013 at 7:48 PM
i want to buy one of these machines . can you contact me? please!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 3, 2013 at 12:07 PM
Contact information sent.
Posted by steve hill on July 1, 2013 at 6:19 PM
Hey when you say you are freezing fresh material, are you referring to freshly
cut off plant or just dried or dried and cured? And do you pack the glass tube and
then freeze.?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 2, 2013 at 7:29 AM
I cut fresh cut colas to about 1/4 size and pack into a column or thermos,
before freezing. It is important to keep atmospheric air humidity from it
during freezing, so as to not coat the trichomes with ice.
Posted by step on October 18, 2013 at 2:14 PM
With regards to atmospheric humidity, would vacuum sealing freshly
harvested material just before popping it into the freezer work?
I am concerned about the non-existent air exchange causing a
humidity spike before it gets down to freezer temp.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 19, 2013 at 8:43 AM
Im guessing that it would work well, as all you are trying to do
is keep ice off the trichomes, which should be far less than if
you have a constant moisture laden air exchange.
Posted by step on October 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM
Additionally, you all mention freezing the column prior to extraction.
For terpenator purposes, is loading 1/4 sized fresh frozen buds
directly into the column the right way to go about it? For throughput
reasons I figure you all are not freezing the column every time..
Where does drying until frangible fit into the equation? Does 200F
lead to some partial decarboxylation?
I suppose my goal is to make a fragrant, light-colored shatter while
minimizing water pickup by the butane using the MkIIIA design.
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I will of course have a filter drier in line coming into the recovery
pump, but I have noticed others have had issues with water
saturating butane on this blog.
Just trying to get the procedure straight in my head before starting
out.
Thanks again for your knowledge and support!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 19, 2013 at 8:52 AM
The oven dry is for material to be decarboxylated.
For fragrant, light colored, bragging rights shatter, the best
way that weve found is to just break the buds up lightly or pack
them whole and instead of freezing them, extract using subzero
cooled butane.
We set the 50# refrigerant recovery tank in denatured alcohol
and dry ice, and get the tank temperature down to below 0F. It
doesnt extract as many non polar plant waxes, or colored
polar elements. Butane at that temperature also doesnt pick up
any water, or water solubles, where at ambient, it can absorb
as much as 32 ml/L.
Posted by f rank l jones on November 8, 2013 at 9:58 AM
new info , so im liking this idea and wanna make sure im
getting it right
fresh cut unfrozen bud using subzero butane? this using
a thermos?and if we are talking ss thermos soak how
much soak time?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 9, 2013 at 8:14 AM
Weve done it up to a couple of hours.
Posted by Rosco cash on June 30, 2013 at 3:44 PM
Hey so totally in related but u seem to really know ur shit n reply fast so I was
gonna ask your opinion. This is the first year Im doin it all myself out door. In Cali
5k elevation. Shooting for feeding nuits twice a week. I used two diff types of soil
cuz got some free its that infinity heavy blend from humbolt. It says its good for
6weeks, with supplying nutrients. But other I used black gold. N some I mixed the
two. I didnt lable all of them an wondering if its ok to still feed all them the
nutrients I usually would or if that soil thats packed with nuits could be harmfull if
extra is added. Planted within the last month. Thx!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 30, 2013 at 8:44 PM
Hi Rosco,
Good question! The safe move is to start light, no matter what you choose to
do. I feed light even in newly transplanted soil, but that is out of habit (i feed
daily) and unnecessary in a well blended soil.
Most nutrient manufacturers recommend more then what is needed. It is
easy to see their motive. Our usage should be directed by the plant itself
rather then scheduled. If you start light, you are less likely to error. When
more of some component is needed, it will be reviled in time. When growing
weed, less is best. Growm big!
ES
Posted by Rosco cash on June 29, 2013 at 5:59 AM
This was def a very Insightful read. I have been using a larger in width plastic PVC
pipe I made into an extraction tube and a mesh screen instead of coffe filters. And
when adding heat to get the butane out I have a grow bulb/spot grow using as a
heat lamp
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 29, 2013 at 9:09 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts bro!
I highly recommend ditching your PVC and getting stainless or glass. PVC
leaches plasticizers into the butane.
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http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance
Posted by Rosco cash on June 29, 2013 at 5:56 AM
Would it be beneficial even to maybe jus try, running a tube filled with just keif?
Im assuming if thats what is being actually used from the product it could maybe
jus produce a massive amount Im a fraction of the time. Never heard of it tho
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 29, 2013 at 9:06 AM
Running straight kif can be problematic, because of clogging. Mixing with
some plant material will help avoid that.
You can run straight kif in a thermos.
Posted by Jonh on June 27, 2013 at 6:03 AM
Hey what is up great tutorial Ive never ran fresh frozen run before Ive packed my
three columns and Im ready to go only question is when Im repacking is moisture
an issue?? Thanks
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 27, 2013 at 6:30 PM
Yes. You dont want the trichomes coated with ice.
Posted by Taylor Fulton on June 28, 2013 at 1:52 AM
What effect does a slight bit of ice or moisture tend to have on the
final polymer? I may be out of place, but for that matter, why do
some say that reclaim thats been through water is bad?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 28, 2013 at 8:45 AM
The terpenes, including the diterpene cannabinoids are slightly
water soluble, so it will absorb and hold a certain amount of
water.
Water speeds up the degrading of the cannabis essential oil,
and can lead to mold or rancidity.
Posted by Willbur on June 25, 2013 at 2:40 PM
HI! So i am planning on doing my first fresh frozen experiment soon and I was
curious if you pack your tube with fresh material first and then freeze it or freeze
the material and then pack it frozen? I was also curious if bringing the tube from a
freezer to a outside temp of 80/90 degrees would make the inside of the tube sweat
and in turn extracting water soluble waxes and chlorophyll?
thanks
Willbur
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM
We cut the fresh material in about 1/4 chucks and load it before freezing, so
as to keep ice from forming on the trichomes, from exposure to atmospheric
moisture.
Posted by Robert Gon October 9, 2013 at 11:15 AM
I had a friend freeze some fresh for me in a turkey bag, pretty sure it
got some extra moisture and had frozen trichs. Do I thaw, reload into
thermos, and freeze again?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 3:05 PM
I would thaw and dry to the touch, before reloading into the
thermos again.
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Posted by gilmourof curtis on June 16, 2013 at 10:43 AM
Is there any chance you could make a parts list for your pressurized or closed loop
sled?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 17, 2013 at 7:27 AM
Sure, there are parts list on the threads.
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/mk-iii-terpenator/
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/projects/
Posted by scott zcollett on June 12, 2013 at 4:34 PM
Interesting thought could u use sand in a double boiler. I heard this in reference to
another application but since i only have an electric skillets sand would be easier
for me to use and safer then water. Any suggestions? Tnx
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 13, 2013 at 8:15 AM
Yes you can use sand in a double boiler and sand is a common lab practice,
instead of an oil bath or heating mantle.
Posted by Richard on June 12, 2013 at 1:55 AM
how long and on what temp do you have to heat purge to get shatter like oil? i dont
have a vac or chamber and dont really want to spend the money on one if im just
doing small runs here and there
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 12, 2013 at 6:15 AM
When we werent using a vacuum, we kept the oil under 125/130F in a thin
film until the solvent bubbles ceased. Maybe half a day.
We currently use -29.5 Hg vacuum in thin films, at 115F.
Posted by Derick Johnson on June 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM
water that is just about to boil and purge around 17 mins cool the dish down
and enjoy
then air purge for a day to get max. shatterness
Posted by Jester on June 12, 2013 at 11:38 PM
I am a 100%newb to this entire subject, and about 90%newb on HVAC (air
conditioning), but the pump I have seen used is the same as what I was able
to rent from autozone to do the A/C work on my car. Its fairly spendy up
front at ~$200 (not sure exactly what the pump alone costs, b/c I rented
gauges as well). Their rental system boils down (pun not exactly intended)
to:
You give them face value for the tool and if returned in 24-48 hrs they
refund all your money. Its a pretty sweet deal that most auto parts stores
do with tool rentals, but unfortunately Autozone appears to be the only
parts chain that carries these pumps (at least in here in PHX).
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 13, 2013 at 7:29 AM
Good info Jester! Thanks for sharing!
Posted by Jay White on June 9, 2013 at 6:57 PM
Butane bonds to cannabinoids and its terpenoids by means of hydrogen bonds
correct? The only way to separate would be to winterize with ethanol or another
less volatile polar solvent correct? Also, is lab grade HPLC ethanol good to use?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 11, 2013 at 7:33 AM
Butane dissolves the diterpene cannabinoids and holds them in solution, but
there are no bonds. Butane already has all its bonds full.
You can simply evaporate or vacuum the butane away, or winterize with
ethanol, and let the rest of the butane exit with the alcohol.
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A 200 proof HPLC grade of ethanol will work, though so will 190 proof
azeotropic grade. Sometimes they use driers like Benzene to remove the last
bit of water from 200 proof, so we even prefer the 190 proof food grades.
Posted by Bobjones on June 6, 2013 at 8:24 PM
Hey Folks,
Ive got a small problem, and could really use a bit of expert advice. I have a crop
of 14 plants that are 40 days into their flowering cycle. Unfortunately, the crop has
recently begun seeding. My question is, should I immediately harvest my crop and
use for BHOextraction, or is there any benefit whatsoever in allowing my crop to
continue growing to full maturation? This is obvious a time-sensitive matter, so
any and all prompt responses will be most appreciated. Thanks in advance for
your support!
Cordially,
Chesshack59
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 7, 2013 at 6:51 AM
Seeding lowers potency, but doesnt eliminate it. What is the normal bloom
cycle for your strain?
Posted by scott zcollett on June 1, 2013 at 8:04 AM
Im currently making ear wax or dry crumbles, i would like to try making budder
next.
Posted by f rank l jones on June 3, 2013 at 4:33 PM
here bro need your advice
Im doing my 1st thermos bho soaked 1 hour
drained and strained as directions just used 1 oz of prime bud
it extracted amazing lookin did a hot water bath using tap water
changed it a few times till bubbles look about right( about 30 min)
then I heated to boiling my everclear mixed and it turned gold and
dissolved
on the spot,i then strained thru a coffee filter into a jar and placed into the
freezer,my plan is to leave for 48 ours
at that point if I understand im to filter once more placing into a collection
vessel? and then use a hot water bath
or heat pad with temps at 125-140 deg? up to a coulpe of hours
would it still be possible to vac purge at 115 temps/
some how ive gotton my self confused
please ive got about 40 hours down time
flj
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 6, 2013 at 10:58 AM
You can vacuum purge after evaporating away most of the alcohol on
a heating pad, or do the whole thing under vacuum. We use 115F and -
29.5Hg for the vacuum purge,.
Posted by f rank l jones on June 6, 2013 at 10:31 PM
thank you for getting back to me,so I did do my first run and it
did butter on me
however the taste and affects are as good as ive ever had(smile)
I discovered that if I placed a pyrex pie plate directly on top of
glass range
set on low this was a stable 134 deg I placed my plate and I did
the really newbie thing and it was turning to oil like beading
up,should I have pulled it at that point? it buttered reall quick,i
was wanting shatter and seemed to miss my mark(smile) like I
said Im not unhappy kinda blown away that its
come this far,the return was around 10 percent still have 1
more chance
as my last small bottle dwells with in the freezer
so to make sure ive got things correct do I place the plate with
3/16
inch deep right into the dessicator? you have mentioned the
option of using a hot bath so im wondering will the 114 temps
under vac leave me with more terps? im also wondering if I use
the 140 temps do I lose terps? guess im more after flavor,so im
feeling good with my 2nd try in the am just one more
question when ya redissolve the bho into the hot everclear
how long
is advised before placing this into freezer
and bro , thanks a million
never met such generous folks I do wanna attend your school
but will need to wait till winter to do so
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peace
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 8, 2013 at 1:50 PM
Yes, it goes into the desiccator and the alcohol is cold
boiled away under vacuum. 115F will still leave lots of
floral terpenes, while 140 will boil them away under
vacuum.
I stick the jar of oil dissolved in Everclear directly in the
freezer and leave it for about 48 hours, before filtering
out the waxes.
Posted by scott zcollett on May 30, 2013 at 1:43 PM
I am getting ready to start using a double boiler when im blasting. I have been
doing a lot of reaserch into temperature and was wondering what are good temps
for your water, under the pan water and then oil in the pan if it matters with
different materials like a pie plate or pyrex. Then i understand you leave at that
temp for 3 hours then air cure for 3-4the days. Anything you would like to share
with me prior to class would help.
Tnx
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 1, 2013 at 7:35 AM
We use 140F tap water in the lower pan.
What are you going to make out of the oil as an end product?
Posted by Cletus the slackjawed apostle on May 29, 2013 at 12:21 AM
Hello and thank you for this post. First time posting, longtime a reader. First i want
to say this is a fantastic attempt at creating a concise and thorough thread
concerning the gathering of 420bho related info. I am a longtime fan of the
concentrates, and I am also on a personal mission of helping those who medically
need these concentrates for their day to day fight versus sickness and disease.
I have some questions regarding Absolute Shatter. This is the concentrate I myself
prefer to make and enjoy. I have Woody Oilmaker to thank, if I could, for his
efforts to educate the masses with his quality vids. Its through his videos, and this
page, and the work of many others and then my tireless efforts of combing the
internet and speaking to growers and producers for tips and tricks to produce a
high quality Absolute shatter, that I feel good about the product I am producing.
To all of you I say Thank you.
Now for my questionsHow can I get my product to people that need the
medicine?Im not looking to make a profit other than to keep being able to stay
above water in order to help others? I produce butter or oil for cooking, as well as
I have refined recipes and produce edibles that taste and look appealing. And my
Absolute shatter is the bomb.
I would also like to get my shatter out to people in the know so that I can get
feedback that can be helpful for future batches. No one I make it for has ever had
AShatter before, so there is no basis for a comparison and analysis.
I have read of all the medicinal abilities of cannabis but until I started making
shatter I never had experienced any positives relating expressly to helping
someones ability to breathe more freely.
I have self medicated for Inflammatory Bowel Disease for years, but now I find my
shatter can help people breathe more freely.
THAT is my biggest questionWhen I smoke my shatter, I can within minutes
breathe more deeply and freely than before my hit. Is this a result of clean, shatter
interacting within the lung membrane, opening up airways because of the
medicinal characteristics of pot? Or am I stoned?
I work hard to refine my shatter, before I winterize, i let my grain alcohol mix sit
12 hours at room temp stirring every couple hours.
I really want to help if I can, If i thought I wasnt helping anyone with my
attemptsI would be willing to just continue to make for myself and my friends.
But I would like to help people who i can trust and need some help.
Any thoughts would be great, Again I think you for the forum and If you could use
a future helping hand in any endeavors with this website, blogging, or otherwise
please contact me.
Best regards
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Cletus the slackjawed apostle
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 30, 2013 at 8:45 AM
Cannabis essential oils are a bronchodilator, which open up the lung
passages and promote easier breathing.
Some of the constitutes are also expectorants, which help clear out any
COPDobstructions.
One of the best forums that Ive found for distributing our extractions
locally, is freemygreenpdx.com aka PIF. It is where we donate our surplus
and if you are in Oregon, more help is always appreciated.
Posted by Cletus the slackjawed apostle on June 6, 2013 at 12:37 AM
I just completed another run of SHATTER and I used Bacardi Rum
151-proof instead of my traditional Everclear, I was wondering if
moonshine would be better?? When it comes to winterization, is the
bottom line always what grain alcohol has the highest Proof?? Thank
you in advance.
Cletus the slawjawed apostle
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 6, 2013 at 3:56 PM
190 proof is best and if you can get good moonshine higher
than 151 proof, then I would give it a shot.
Posted by C4h10 on May 28, 2013 at 1:28 PM
Ive been making BHOfor awhile now and Ive always wash out my BHOPyrexs
with ISOto get the oil out of the corners then I let the ISOevaporate so it can be
smoked. It seems as tho when I re dissolve the BHOwith The ISOit purges the BHO
without using a Vac. my questions are is it safe to re wash BHOwith ISO? And is
this really releasing all the butane?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 29, 2013 at 8:10 AM
Yes, redissolving BHOin ISOwill release the butane when you purge the Iso.
It is safe as long as you purge the Iso afterwards.
Posted by Derek on May 25, 2013 at 5:55 AM
Forgive me if this is a stupid question,
I recently starting smoking BHO, and have noticed something that has brought me
here. I have been smoking herb for at least 5 years and never had much of an issue.
But when i take a Dab after work or whatever i notice the corners of my eyes or
head tend to slightly twitch, not like a tick, just a slight muscle spasim. Has anyone
else had this? Could it just be relaxing muscles? I would just like to compare with
someone.. Thank you
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 25, 2013 at 7:25 AM
No spasms or ticks here. Anyone else?
Posted by Dayzty on May 25, 2013 at 10:37 AM
Ive had that happen to me a few times. For me it was just nerves relaxing
after a long day. I do computer work, so my eyes sometimes are a bit
strained, and bho (as well as a strong joint) will have this effect as its
sedative effect forces me to release that built up stress.
Posted by jon on June 6, 2013 at 4:54 AM
Ive heard this can be related to dopamine systems. Hopefully not the
honey.
Posted by Matt on May 22, 2013 at 8:33 PM
Thanks for all your hard work!
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I just have a few questions. Have been making BHOvia glass extraction tube
(small) using dried and cured bud usually doing small runs around 2g-3g, yielding
anywhere from 10%-22%
1. I have never frozen my bud before I blast. Living in a warm and humid climate
would freezing my bud before help in any way?
2. should I grind up my bud for extraction? I normally just slightly break up my
nugs to fit in the tube.
Also, seeing your URL by any chance do you have formal training from a
University or have you figured out all of this wonderful information through trial
and error?
Thanks

Matt
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 24, 2013 at 10:37 AM
We only freeze fresh cut material for BHOextraction, or dried material for
alcohol extractions.
Grinding increases packing uniformity and density, but lightly breaking up
by hand produces less green color,
Our groups training hails from Oklahoma State, Portland State, Oregon
Institute of Technology, and University of Washington, but most of the
information about cannabis was through physical and on line research. Not
much in the college text books about cannabis extraction or formulation.
Posted by scott zcollett on May 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM
I just had my bho product tested in a lab and it came back at 88 percent thc. Whst
is the average that you all normally see.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 14, 2013 at 1:50 PM
Still dialing our GC to other labs Scott, so Ill hold off sharing our numbers
until I am confident they are correct and defensible. It really depends on
the strain, as we also grow high CBDstrains, but high 80s, low 90s us
typically where most high THC Absolutes seem to fall.
Posted by scott zcollett on May 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM
How can i register for your next bho class on 7 -7 -13.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 15, 2013 at 6:08 AM
Fill out the application at the end of the page at
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/skunk-pharm-
research-classes/ and send them to
graywolf@skunkpharmresearch.com.
The 7 -7 class is already grossly overbooked, so you might
consider the 7 -27 class, which is only slightly overbooked.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 9, 2013 at 11:56 AM
Thank you first of all, you have the most in depth site on extraction methods. I
have been studying and experimenting with making the safest BHOI can so
patients dont suffer. Where I live far too many people are cutting corners at the
cost of other peoples health. So my question to you is I have been using butane to
pour through a glass or stainless tube into pyrex just like most, and I want to make
something better than your average honey oil. Its been lab tested and it was one of
the labs only oil to pass their solvents test. I just dont have the access or the
finances to work with the equipment you are talking about. There is so much
information on here my head is spinning. Maybe you can tell me what your
opinion is on the different extraction methods for gaining the highest THC and CBD
potency, and also best way to reach absolute or an oil that will actually retain the
wonderful smells and attributes that led me to pour that strain in the first place.
Sadly, the highest grade alcohol I can find around is usually just 91%is what I was
taught with for helping with the purging process. Like I said Ive been reading your
site for days and my head is spinning so if you can make any sense of that I would
love to improve. Thank you and I hope to hear back. It is nice to see some people
taking this to a place where it can help people. BHOhas been so controversial that
I would love to be better. I would honestly love to come to one of your classes or
seminars I read about. I have chronic pain for life from a fractured calcaneus and a
shattered foot so everything I have read about opiate withdrawl and pain
management is amazing. Thanks again.
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 12, 2013 at 4:12 PM
We get the highest potency using a non polar solvent, like propane, butane,
pentane, or hexane, and winterizing it to remove the non active waxes using
a polar solvent like ethanol.
Have you tried ordering 190 proof from
http://www.winechateau.com/ ?
Love to see you in class. We currently have more out of state students
attending, than Oregon students.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 12, 2013 at 5:20 PM
Thank you. I read much more of your site and did a lot more research
and decided that I like the fact that butane extracts the least water
soluble biproducts . I made some drastic changes to my process and
was left with the most pleased results i think ever. I used to pour over
a dish already on heat to speed up the purging process but i was
losing all of the terpene quality and decarbing way to fast, for one of
the first times even as it still had butane bubbles, it reeked of the
strain I used. Im looking forward to your suggestion because i think
the winterizing was the last step i was missing. Ill just have to be
patient and get the right grade alcohol or ethanol to do it right. Thank
you again. I really appreciate the info and Im serious about signing
up for your classes so hopefully i will get up to Oregon. Like I said this
is something that I plan on using to change my life. Thank you.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 13, 2013 at 4:35 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts bro! Look forward to seeing you
in class!
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 27, 2013 at 5:28 PM
Hello GW,
I just wanted to thank you for all of your help. I sadly
after reading more in depth about the LLC as a whole and
the classes and their specifics, I can not attend. I am not
a medical student, I would love to be but I dont think it
is in the cards. I can not express how much I appreciate
the help as I said before I want to make something as
high/medical grade as you describe but I dont have the
access to some of the items you use. But, I am pretty
clever on my own and with a little guidance from you, I
have been making shatter with the goal of getting it as
close to absolute as possible with the equipment I have
for a while now. I have just done loads and loads of
research, and then seperated out all the people that
really dont have a clue and finally found your website,
and havent closed it for like a month. I wanted to come
up there for a very similar reason as to why you seem to
be doing what you are, so the patients in the area where
I live and are a part of the community, arent going to
their local Dispensary or wherever and buying products
riddled with cancinogens. They have safe access to safe
MEDICINE! I love that your meds are free to the patients
and that you can use this as a catalyst to do amazing
experiments with extraction and be able to have the
access to have patients to give you direct results, not to
mention all the people you are able to help. So it really
took the wind out of my sails to find out I am not eligible,
but I feel after reading your entire site a few times and
getting to correspond with you I have a pretty good
feeling. Sorry for the long post, I just knew I wouldnt get
a chance to thank you in person now. So I think I really
just have one or two simple questions for you. In my
original post, I asked you what your opinion on the
different methods were and that was far too vague. I
really wanted to know of all the non-polar solvents you
listed; hexane, pentane, propane, butane, etc.
1) Is there one that you prefer for highest yield in weight
and potency, for either THC or CBDs and CBNs using
almost always cured materials?? And I understand you
can achieve different levels of different chemicals by
decarbing at different temperatures, because I
understand they all have different applications. I have
always prefered butane extraction and used 91%to
wash, I am finally getting the right stuff to winterize, but
anyways using low heat I always simply purged the resin
of contaminants and also dehydrated it to the point of
shatter.
2)Keeping in mind Im planning to winterize when the
materials arrive, is there a better way?
3)Lastly, I just was wondering when to introduce the
ethanol. So it sounds like I dissolve the oil into the
ethanol after it has finished cleaning with I believe it was
like a 10:1 ratio and then freeze for 48 hours and strain
through coffee filter, correct?
Again, thank for your time, it is a privilege to get to
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interact with other people with such a passion for
helping people. Peace, Joseph.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 29, 2013 at 9:02 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts and sorry we wont be
meeting your smiling face!
We mostly use butane, because it does a good job and
with recycle, it is the cheapest method that weve found.
Hexane also does a nice job, but is more expensive and
more work to purge.
We winterize with 190 proof ethanol, which works better
than Iso for that purpose.
We pour in the heated ethanol as soon as the bubbles
stop, with the BHOextraction sitting in a hot tap water
double boiler bath.
Mixing the BHOextract at about 10:1 with alcohol and
freezing for 48 hours before filtering out the waxes,
using a coffee filter, is correct.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 27, 2013 at 5:37 PM
Also PLEASEpost any updates you have with pain
management and opiate withdrawl, as I thought that was
extremely useful and I would love to pinpoint an oil to
help me. Thanks Again.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 31, 2013 at 9:12 PM
Thank you, I know everyone says that, but I truly
appreciate the sound reliable advice and respect the
words and work you are doing. It sounds like I should
have a pretty pristine extract with the ethanol. I had one
idea to run past you, I was pouring and Im sure you
know that whatever collection dish you are using it is
going to be extremely cold from the negative
temperatures being poured out. I was just trying to be
creative while I wait for my winterization materials, and
thought as I introduced the alcohol almost immediately
after finishing pouring the bho and mixing quickly and
thoroughly I saw tons of clumps form under the cold
temperatures and the reaction. Could I strain that
immediately after to extract a portion of the fats and
waxes caught in the winterization process? Or is this
something else entirely? They were evenly distributed
white clumps which I know I have read about in
someone elses post but I was just wondering if I was
quick about it, could achieve a better extract? Thank
you, Sincerely, Joseph
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 2, 2013 at 6:20 PM
We always filter both before and after freezing when
winterizing. We are able to strain out some of the waxes
immediately after re-dissolving in alcohol, but it takes
colder temperatures and time to fully winterize the
material.
We have the most success after about 48 hours at
around 0F.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 3, 2013 at 8:09 AM
Thank You once again. Of course I only meant this for
the meantime while shipping feels like an eternity.
Because of my recent surgery, Im just relearning to walk
this week so Im sure Im just being impatient. This, I can
do anytime. So I saw that you said that you heat your
ethanol before introducing it into the oil: 1) what
temperature do I heat to? 2) I will look up the
evaporation heat and rate for ethanol but I imagine you
would heat it right before introducing it so as to not
evaporate the alcohol too fast or too early, is this
correct?? I would think with a 10:1 ratio you would be
fine. I just havent done it yet so I wanna make sure I get
it right and its strange to strain an oil. Im very excited.
Best wishes to what seems like a great group of people!!
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 6, 2013 at 4:21 PM
I just heat it somewhere between about 140F to boiling,
as it will cool down rapidly when it contacts the oil and
the container. You can dissolve the oil in cold alcohol, it
just takes a long time.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Hello GreyWolf,
A few last details. I feel like planning is your best friend
in this case. 1) Is a flat electric pancake skillet with a
buffer in between the skillet and pan the best way to boil
off the everclear after straining and reintroducing all the
oil/alcohol mixture. I feel like thats how I have the most
control over temperature and the ability to get to a
specific temperature. Ive seen people do some scary
looking setups to heat their mixture. 2) With raising
temperatures up to 17 5 degrees F or above to start the
evap. process, will most of my terpene quality be
destroyed because Im breaking my usual temp.
threshold of about 80degrees?? Lately more like
90/95degrees or so and I honestly only go that hot
because the summer is upon us and its simply that hot or
hotter. 3) At whatever stage you introduce the
everclear, isnt that going to bring your butane purging
to a halt because of the low low temperatures you put
the oil/alcohol mixture in? I was just thinking, should I
let the oil go for a few days on low heat before
introducing the alcohol to get the cleanest shatter, or
does any residual butane get released when you boil the
alcohol off?
Sorry for the long posts I just always think of the little
details and I want to make sure I have them covered. 4)
Have you had these essential oils you make tested to see
what percentage of solvents IF ANY are still left. I just
simply find everyone calling there stuff ABSOLUTE
Shatter. But what I truly want is CLEAN CLEAn
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 11, 2013 at 7:24 AM
I like a hot Canola oil bath for the best temperature
control without local hot spots. I use an electric fondue
pot to control the temperature of the oil and a laser
thermometer to keep track of the temperatures.
Yes, you are boiling off the monoterpenes at 17 3F, along
with the alcohol.
I pour in the Everclear as soon as the butane appears to
be gone. The rest of the butane will leave with the
alcohol.
We have a GC and test our own oil for content. There is
no issue with purging residual solvents below levels of
concern using just heat, or heat and vacuum.
There is also no problem telling with just taste and smell
whether you have residual solvent present at any levels
of concern. We can taste and smell the alkanes and
alcohols an order of magnitude lower than the levels
NIOSHfound them to be insalubrious.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 11, 2013 at 12:00 PM
Ok, Thank you again. That is beautiful that you can test
your oils on the spot for contaminants. Anyways, I guess
I thought skillet because I was thinking of putting it back
into the 139 trays and using a skillet simply because of
the surface area, but if I am going to lose those terpenes
anyways I can use a setup more like what you are talking
about. I remember it from the website. 1) So using pretty
fresh material, like a month old, is it possible to
winterize and boil off the alcohol and still be able to
control whether you have the taste, smells and effects
that you want? I just dont typically purge at that temp
unless Im trying to achieve a certain affect? Peace and
Have a wonderful day!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 14, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You lose some of the monoterpenes when you boil off
the alcohol, because they are alcohols, ketones,
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aldahydes, ethers, esters, etc, with a high vapor pressure
to start with.
If you vacuum purge at a low temperature, you can
preserve more of them than if you purge the alcohol
with heat. You can make an oil that smells and tastes like
the original material that it was extracted from.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 14, 2013 at 11:26 AM
Greetings!
I was wondering if you had a recommendation on a
vacuum purging system and the right specs I want to
look for as far as CFMs and all that? I have never vacuum
purged simply because I got busy but with my new
found time with my injury and my passion to learn more
about this I figured I would get one. It seems like that is
another way people are achieving very good results in
making shatter or taffy as well. If you have any ideas on
a good setup please let me know. Thank you.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 14, 2013 at 4:16 PM
Weve had good luck with all of our vacuum chambers so
far, but if you have the funds, I would go with a vacuum
oven big enough to hold a dish the size you will be
working with. Not sure who has the best deal, as we
bought a used Napco and completely rebuilt it, including
new digital controls.
I can tell from the design, that the Napco wouldnt hold
the required narrow dead band, with the existing heat
strip arrangement and mechanical capillary tube
control.
From a controls standpoint, it needs a narrow dead band
and needs to be controllable from ambient to 300F. Plus
or minus one degree F is reasonable. After rebuilding
and upgrading the controls, ours now holds dead on at
plus nothing, minus nothing.
The other end of the spectrum is a DIY, like the one we
built at http://skunkpharmresearch.com/diy-
vacuum-purging-chamber/
I would pick up a single stage vacuum pump in the 6 or 7
cfm range. A smaller one will work, but the speed of the
larger ones is handy. Weve used our CPS VP6S pump
reliably for about five years, so you might take a look at
them.
You dont need a two stage pump, as you dont want to
vacuum below about -29.5 Hg, because it boils away
the cannabinoids.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 15, 2013 at 8:51 AM
See, I knew I asked the right man! Many thanks! You
always seem to steer me in the right direction. And now
I can use those specs to get exactly what I need. So the
CPS VP6S pump, 1) would I simply create my own
chamber and use parchment or some type of wax paper
to put the concentrate on while it purges? I can see why
the bigger chamber is so nice. User friendly it sounds
like. Again Have a Wonderful Day and Thank you!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 17, 2013 at 7:32 AM
Yes, you can use parchment paper or a silicone rubber
pad, as well as a shallow dish to cold boil.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM
I just wanted to let you know what a profound effect
your website and its information has had on the
Northern California Region. I cant speak for everyone,
but the people I talk to have heard of this site and you
seem to be some what of the authority on how to
correctly make concentrates. And in turn I have been
able to change some peoples minds about essential oils
and I am able to present them in a safer, more medicinal,
more user friendly, more aromatic, more scientific light.
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Breaking down the science for people is sometimes the
only way to break down their closed minds. They need
facts I guess. So again, Thank you from the bottom of my
heart to all of you there that sit and read my long rants
and still take the time to reply. I hope you know you
change peoples lives. Peace, Oh and thank you for the
vacuum recommendation, My New Project!!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts Joseph and youre
welcome! You can repay the favor by passing on any
portion of it that works for you on.
Good luck with your new project!
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Drake Snow on June 5, 2013 at 11:10 AM
Dear Mr. GF,
Recently, I stumbled upon the most interesting of sorts with what I
am about to ask if I can redeem this or not? My material so happened
to fall in bag mind you, near a dryer sheet. The material was near this
dryer sheet for about 2 weeks. I did not think much about it, because
I had mixed that specific material with other of the same material that
was stashed elsewhere for blasting. I have used your thin film vacuum
purging technique since February of this year. I usually place a little
heat underneath for speeding of purge. Thus, I did so with the
material I had mentioned before. However, after 30 minutes of
vacuum purge at 90F and then a little more with an additional 15
minutes, plus trying to place in freezer over night inside petrie dish
for speedy drying.
I still taste the damn dryer sheet in my oil!!! What am I to do? Is this
something that you have ever heard off? I want to purge it out
without killing the floral notes or the oleoresins/terpenes. I can taste
the delicious taste in the back of my palate, but it is on the exhalation
that I sense the dryer sheet taste and this is even filtering through
water, mind you.
I do not know what to do? Should I purge it some more? What can I
do to get that dyer sheet fragrance taste out of my oil? I feel awful
about it. It would have been delicious if it had not been for that 10gs
of material that was left inside a bag which was inside a vacuum sealed
bag near the dryer sheet, this oil would have been outstanding like
the last few oils have been due to your amazing simple process
Please GF. If you think I can salvage this by any means? I am here to
learn! Please shed light on what I can do, if I can do anything at all?
Thank you in advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 6, 2013 at 4:17 PM
Wow, dryer sheets are potent! Using dryer sheets is actually
how women tell other women that a man is taken. What
bachelor ever uses fabric softeners?
Sorry I dont and Joe doesnt either. Any process known to us,
would also remove the lighter terpenes.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM
Hello Again,
I hope all is well! I have a quick winterization question. I started to pour the
190 everclear in the somewhat purged but still liquid stage. I had seen
someone do this and get a wild reaction. And being my first attempt I
figured I might make a mistake or two. But I had quite of bit of research and
it often conflicts itself. My question is 1) when I poured the alcohol in it
seemed to be evaporating faster than I could pour. or is that simply the
butane evaporating and the alcohol taking its place. I Put the whole thing in
the freezer then was able to add it much more freely. Now After over 48
hours at 0degrees or below i just have alot of little white things floating. I
understand Im trying to strain out the fats waxes lipids etc. but I just
wanted to see if this was right before I take it out of the freezer. 2) Should I
have waited longed, closer to the oil state before adding the alcohol. 3) Also
if so, could i take it out and let the butane evaporate further and then redo
the process if necessary. Thank YOu so Much! Peace
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 30, 2013 at 6:12 PM
After 48 hours, you should be able to filter out the wax and lipids.
Adding the butane early is no problem, as it will leave with the
alcohol.
I would just filter it and vacuum or evaporate away the ethanol.
Posted by jozikins on May 9, 2013 at 11:23 AM
Hey guys, this is a great read, great attitude!
Question: I was looking into Hexane extraction, but because of the price of Hexane
I was looking into alternatives. Calibration Gas is 40%N-Hexane Gas, and
background gasses are N-Pentane, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. I know that Hexane and
Nitrogen are excellent for extracts, Oxygen Im not worried about, but what about
Pentane? You egg heads have any insight?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 10, 2013 at 6:02 AM
Pentane makes an excellent non polar solvent for extraction.
Posted by jozikins on May 16, 2013 at 10:51 PM
Thanks guys! This bit of literature has saved me loads of time and
expenses!
Posted by jozikins on May 16, 2013 at 10:53 PM
Awesome, thanks a lot guys! This bit of literature has saved me loads
of time and expenses. Good job everyone.
Posted by JackFlash on April 29, 2013 at 12:54 PM
Hi Greyfox. 1st Id like to express my gratitude for your openness &willingness to
share reliable info. You are obviously highly competent &I love the creativeness
of all your projects. I have 2 questions &I value your opinion. Hope you can help.
1. I plan to set up 3 36 SS columns &use your BHOextraction method. Freezers
capable of -32C/0F &large enough to contain a 36 column are financially
impractical for me. What do you think of using a 4 ft long x 8 dia sched 40 PVC
pipe with push-on caps filled with dry ice to freeze the columns? Id drill a pressure
relief hole in one cap. Will I damage the product with the extremely cold (-
7 8.5C/-109.3F) temps? If this is a problem perhaps I could put a scrap piece of
SS pipe filled with old material with a lab thermometer inserted in the middle into
the dry ice &remove extraction columns when they reach ~ -10F. What do you
think?
2. In the interest of saving time &perhaps a little butane, Ive had both ends of my
SS columns threaded. After the 1st run of each column, I plan to reverse
input/output ends, put columns back in dry ice to chill &do 2nd run with reverse
flow. Do you think this would be an effective approach instead of repacking?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 8:10 AM
My wife mate Grayfox thanks you for the good thoughts bro!
Dry ice temperatures wont damage the cannabinoids, but it will
dramatically slow down the process.
Are you freezing the columns to run fresh frozen green material or using it
on dry material?
Reverse flow is a good compromise, but wont usually give the same return
as a complete repack.
Posted by JackFlash on May 1, 2013 at 9:14 AM
Thanks for the feedback GreyWOLF. Sorry bout that!
Im running fresh dry material but plan on trying the green next time
around. I will use a lab thermometer as I described in the 1st post to
keep the temperature between 0 &-10F. Ill try both reverse flow &
repack &post the difference in results if thats helpful.
I also found an old SS 2 qt thermos. I put a handful of flint chips in it &
put it in a tumbler to clean which worked well. Im going to try the
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thermos method as well using dry ice &an infrared pyrometer to
control temperature. Ill post the results &anything else that might
prove useful.
Again, thanks for your help &for being an invaluable source of info.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 2, 2013 at 5:48 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts and good luck with your
experiments! I look forward to seeing the results!
Posted by adamon April 27, 2013 at 1:37 PM
hey got a question greywolf so i come across material that blows gold but once in
vac oven goes darker after a few min of purging to honeycomb. I like you host
medical patients, i run uhp u butane so on. I am no first timer just bouncing ideas
from one co op owner to the next. thanks brother
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 29, 2013 at 9:44 AM
What temperature are you purging at?
Posted by Josh B on April 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM
I need help , I have spoke with Graywolf on another site in the past(which I no
longer have access to) , but my father inlaw was getting his cannabis oil from
someone other then me at the time .. he has cancer , already went thru chemo
once and now the tumor is back and bigger then ever , the Doctors gave him
6months to live , but want to double his amount of chemo in hopes it may help ..
For aggressive cancer treatment how do I convert the BHOinto something I can
put into a capsule ? Just decarb it ?
What temp and how long should I heat the BHOto properly decarb it so it can be
taken orally ?
Where in the PDXarea can I buy empty capsules to load ?
What dosage of BHO(far as weight per day) should he be taking ? (Ive read starting
with a size of a grain of rice ramping up to one gram per day)
Or is BHOthe wrong method here ? Maybe I should be extracting with a different
solvent ?
I really love the idea of the HAO, but during the chemo his taste buds freak out to
the point he cant stand the taste of anything , so thats why I feel an oral capsule is
going to be the best bet
Thank you , Josh
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 29, 2013 at 9:42 AM
We decarb oil at 250F until we reach the stage of decarboxylation we are
seeking. See http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
You can put decarboxylated oil in a capsule, or better yet mix it with about
30%coconut oil to help uptake and tie up the liver. We then mix that with
cornstarch to stabilize it into something like silly putty and then stuff that in
caps.
Most health food stores have Oand OOgel caps. I got my last bag at Natures.
The standard Rick Simpson cancer dose is 1 gram a day, broken up into
three or four doses. We start patients with unknown tolerance at 50 mg, to
see what happens and then titrate upward to reach the desired dose.
That is half the 100 mg dose weve found to be about an average low
tolerance dose for pain, with 200 mg about average, and 300 mg a high
tolerance dose.
Posted by c on April 29, 2013 at 10:27 PM
If a person didnt want to get the high ,etc effects but just needed the
THC for cancer wouldnt shatter or preshatter taffy be a good addition
to the full plant extract rso style? I am curious because it is hard to
get enough rso into people without them getting too high. Although
in my experience they all claim that after a while it doesnt effect em
that much but,,,,,,,,,, Just wondering if you have any experience
blending it together. Would the undecarboxilated THC still be usable
by the body for the cancer or would it need to be heated before it
would become active against the cancer?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 8:21 AM
I dont know the answer to that question, but there are folks
juicing raw carboxylic acid cannabinoids and reporting good
results, so my best guess is that it would do something positive,
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even if it werent the panacea that you are looking for.
One thing that THCA cant do readily, is pass the blood brain
barrier, but that only prevents it from reaching the CB-1
receptors, because our immune systems CB-2 receptors are
scattered throughout the body, and so the CBDA present has
full access. They are also finding more new cannabinoid
receptor types scattered throughout our bodies, and they may
also be involved.
Posted by c on May 9, 2013 at 3:50 PM
amazing times. I know of many people doing the raw
plant juice and they all have had great results . The
shatter is just more of that kind of THC accesibility to
the body. Course the shatter doesnt have the fresh other
stuff that comes right out of the plant but that would be
in the rso already to some extent. Interesting stuff for
certain!
Posted by Josh B on April 30, 2013 at 1:32 PM
Thank you very much for you reply , I will follow as you suggested
with coconut oil and cornstarch ..
Would you suggest using butane or 99%iso for the extraction ?
I dont know if its true or not , but I read that iso will extract cbds
where as butane will not ,or not as well is maybe what I read ..
If I am leaving my questions in the incorrect area of the site please let
me know
Thanks , Josh
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 7:27 AM
Both butane and Iso will extract the CBD, but we use butane
and ethanol for our oral meds.
Posted by Josh B on May 6, 2013 at 3:07 PM
What percentage of corn starch is normally used to
achieve a thicker state ? something like silly putty as you
refereed to ?
Using a stainless steel cup I submerged 42 grams of vac
purged bho into 250deg canola oil , took 10-15 minutes
for it to stop bubbling after it was heated.. I let it cool
down to about 100-110degs and added 12grams (30%)
coconut oil ,after that I began to add corn starch , got up
to 12grams of corn starch and it still wasnt changing the
viscosity any thicker ,I tried adding heat to see if the
corn starch would react/thicken the mix and it did not
(200-210degs for a couple minutes).. I just grabbed a
syringe and filled the capsules
Im thinking Ill just skip the corn starch in the future
batchs, or try it on a smaller batch next time . is there
any advantages or disadvantages besides changing the
consistency in adding or not adding corn starch ?
Thank you so much for helping us out with this , putting
the info out here for us all to use is a true blessing !
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 9, 2013 at 5:38 AM
35 grams of our silly putty consistency, contains 10
grams oil, 3 grams coconut oil, and 22 grams of
cornstarch.
That makes the cornstarch 62.8%of the mixture.
42 grams of BHOwould use (4.2 X3 grams) of coconut
oil, or 12.6 grams, and (4.2 X22 grams) of cornstarch, or
92.4 grams.
Adding the cornstarch just keeps everything more stable
for travel, so that the caps are much less likely to leak.
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Posted by MCon April 19, 2013 at 2:32 PM
What about freeze dried material?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Never tried it, but ostensibly it would work. The quality of the extraction
would be influenced by how frangible the material becomes when that dry.
Posted by matthew on April 15, 2013 at 11:42 AM
Your article and the others on your site have been very informative. i just have a
question about a current batch I made. I used dried plant material and ran it
through a glass extractor with power 5x butane and two coffee filters at the end. i
have been having success with this and have been using heat purging in hot water
on an electric range and have been getting nice, rock hard concentrate that can be
easily handled. however this time did a bigger run than normal but cant seem to
get the oil to the hard stage this time. we have tried vac purging as well as heat and
somehow cant seem to get it to what we have done all the other times. what do you
think could be the cause of this and how can it be corrected?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 15, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Retained solvent or partial decarboxylation.
It takes more heat and time to purge in deeper pools, so more may remain.
The added heat decarboxylates the oil and makes it more runny.
You might consider purging in smaller quantities or in a larger container,
with more surface area.
Posted by MCon April 16, 2013 at 12:20 PM
Ding ding ding! I had the same kind of thing going, great bho, then bad
bho, much hair pulling, thinking, asking, etc and a month of bad
batches I came up with three things that are pretty key
-the depth of the pool.
I was killing myself trying to crank through 4-6 columns then purge
all at once. I noticed a batch could be under vacuum for 6 hours, be
flat w/ no bubbles, but tip the container so the batch runs, and
whammy, bubbles. Too thick
-Dry source material. No, really dry. A friend related that he packs his
material away with large bags of dessicant he makes from bulk for a
week or more before running it. So now after the screen, right before I
run my material, I toss it in the oven for a little while (like toss as it
warms, not throw in and leave) then pack in a tube.
-Quality of vacuum. I was pulling down to -29 hg but I was also
loosing pressure very rapidly if I flip the valve to isolate the tank.
What that means to me is that the pump is pulling outside air and
whatever through the tank. Not going to be thorough. When I worked
out my lid gasket deal better, I noticed the pump quieted down a lot,
no rattle, and could run all night without getting really hot.
And do yourself a favor and put a vapor trap between the pump and
your pile of profit. Things go wrong, pumps (cheaper ones) will leak
oil back to the vac chamber while you wait for depressurization. Make
Hulk Angry.
Posted by MCon April 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM
And I still want to come visit, take a class, rub brains and see
what happens, but I still have a wildfire for a life, cant really
make it happen yet.
Side note..
Making a new vac tank, I had on hand a 2021 stainless bowl 22
in dia around 12 g, and recalled squirreling away a round plate
of glass 1/2 thick, with holes predrilled for hanging the thing.
As the plate is larger than the bowl, I could hang 2 holes off the
edge and only have one exposed to vacuum, so I set the
valve/vac line to that. 3/8 neoprene gasket contact cemented
to lip of bowl, put them together and see how it
works.rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
hmm, looks like it is pulling vac pretty fast, looks goo
BOOOM
which is not what the plate glass imploding into the bowl,
upwards since it was on bottom, then all crashing to the floor
while I stood next to it in shorts.
I like Implosion better than explosion. I can still walk.
Why for it go boom?
the holes in the glass were left rough, not polished out. any
roughness to glass is a micro fracture, weakening the entire
matrix. And the vacuum says, Grrrr.
Sometimes you just want things to work so you ignore what
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you already know, I guess?
Posted by MCon April 16, 2013 at 1:25 PM
which is not what it sounds like, the boom I mean..
tangential brain!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 17, 2013 at 7:40 AM
Yeah, I decided to put a bulkhead fitting into the side
wrapper, rather than weaken the already marginal
acrylic lid.
Makes a mess, doesnt it?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM
Thanks for sharing bro!
Really dry material sidesteps water soluble issues, but makes
the materia brittle and frangible. We prefer to run at about 10%
water content minimum for oil to be decarboxylated.
For more floral vaporizing flavors, we extract closer to 25%
water content, because the lighter terpenes evaporate away
with it.
For the most floral flavor, we freeze fresh cut material and
extract it frozen.
Posted by f rank jones on May 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM
so could you recommend a vapor trap? size and where to make
purchase
seems im putting together my own lab(smile)
thank you
frank
Posted by f rank jones on May 6, 2013 at 8:10 PM
While we use 180F to vacuum purge a raw oleoresin,
adding heat isnt necessary when thin film vacuum
purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The
alcohol will boil away under 28.5Hg at ambient
temperatures, as will the water that is left behind, even
without adding any heat.
hello Greywolf
1st I wanna thank you for sharing such as craft,i live in
Colorado and
Im seeing prices soar 2 years ago we were paying 25
bucks a gm for co2
honey oil 15 bucks for full bubble melt,now everything is
twice that price
Im not sniveling just trying to convey my thankfull ness
so im a newbie at extraction s I do have a medical
garden ,thanks to you folks im now gonna be able to
make my own,
if ya dont mind id like to hear you elaborate on how to
operate a dessicator and pump you mentioned that you
control the vac for a half hour or so then lock it down
and continue under heat
does this mean pump is running during the controlled
period to observe
the bigger bubbles then you shut off pump and keep it
under vac?
there are so many utube videos but no one seems to
include details
also im wanting to try out vaccuming ethanol with out
heat
hope this isnt a pain to ask of ya,it seems im
understanding most of
your info . Im also building the diy stainless dessicator
and about to order
the filter gear and should be on the road soon
thank you
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Once you have pumped the system down and it is stable,
you can close the valve between the pump and the
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desiccator and the pressure inside the chamber will stay
relatively stable, rising only in response to the boiling
going on inside.
During the periods of slow pressure rise, the pump is
over kill, so as soon as you close the valve, you can turn
off the pump. Periodically turn on the pump and open
the valve to vacuum off any accumulated purged gases,
before repeating the isolation and shutdown procedure.
Do remember to turn it on before opening the valve
again though, as it can spray oil from the pump into your
chamber and product, if you suck air backwards through
the pump.
Yes, I just watch the bubbles to tell the difference
between solvent and fizzy C02 bubbles. The solvent
bubbles are random sized, with some quite large, and the
CO2/Terpene fizzy bubbles, are relatively uniform and
smaller.
If you cold boil alcohol, you will need a cold trap
between the chamber and pump and/or watch your
pumps crankcase level like a hawk, and change it every
time it reaches max level.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 10:21 AM
Im still working on our cold trap bro, but should have
the final part this week.
Ive had only limited success in the lab using dual cold
traps and dual condensers running ice water, so how
well this works remains to be seen.
What I did, was order a refrigerant recovery pump after
cooler to go in front of the vacuum pump, to cool down
the alcohol vapors enough to be captured by the cold
trap Ive made out of a sanitary spool and a lid with one
vacuum port and one dip tube port.
The incoming stream will be pulled through the after
cooler, then the dip tube side of the cold trap, and then
out the vapor port, to pass through the pump. I can
determine what vacuum pressure it will support, after I
see how low it gets the temperature of the stream at
current flows.
Obviously the after coolers could be cascaded, and there
can be multiple cold traps, or the bath temperature
could be lowered by using antifreeze.
More on the assembly, after I try it out.
Posted by Kerr on April 30, 2013 at 6:56 AM
This could also be the product of excessively dried material. The
cannabinoids partially break down from theircarboxylic acid state,
leaving you with somewhat decarboxylated material to begin with.
This will result in gooey bho.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 8:39 AM
True story.
Posted by f rank jones on May 16, 2013 at 10:40 AM
thanks Bro
so as I was a sayin(smile) back to the thin film purge of
butane extract
redissolved in eth that it needs no heat,Im stuck on cold
trap,so my question is (in photo of diy cold/vapor) what
size are the flask being used?
and I do notice a filter there as well so,if ya get a moment
sure would
like more info(smile),and thank yas for such kind
offerings
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 18, 2013 at 6:18 AM
I am in the process of building my latest cold trap
version, after having experimented with using the
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original 6 X6 Mk III butane storage tank for a trap,
with a refrigerant after cooler in front of it, and both
submerged in an ice bath. It works OK, but still doesnt
catch but about 90%, and slows down the process from
the added resistance, so larger diameter tubing in the
chilling coils are required to reduce resistance, as well as
colder water or more chilling surface to capture more
solvent.
My newest version is based on a 6 X12 sanitary spool,
and instead of having an after cooler in front of as a pre
chiller, the cooling coils are inside the cold trap and I am
going to circulate ice water or antifreeze through them. I
expect it to collect a higher percentage of the alcohol,
and be faster than the current test sled.
Posted by lvzy on April 7, 2013 at 10:33 AM
thanks for the great information.
I use a griddle to heat up the inside of my chamber to about 110F.
drop in my parchment paper with the concentrate, and purge till there is no
movement.
I was wondering why my concetrate seems to have lost all its taste and flavor.
I have had plenty of runs without vac purging and tasted and smelled great.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 8, 2013 at 9:58 AM
Possibly the no movement part. We vacuum purge at 115F in a thin film
until there are no solvent bubbles present, but remove it while there are still
CO2 bubbles coming off. If you cook it until it is bubble free, it will lose
many of its lighter terpenes.
Posted by Carson on March 30, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Where I live, there isnt any lab testing or high standards for concentrates. Most is
sent from out of state and not properly purged. I started making my own after
learning a lot off your site about BHOsafety and proper procedures. Just wanted to
make sure there isnt more I need to do in order to achieve a clean absolute.
Process: After spraying butane through an unbleached coffee filter into a pyrex
cup, I wait until most of the butane naturally evaporates away and then right
before I get magma sludge I pour in a 3:1 ratio of 190 proof alcohol to oil. I wait
until all the butane bubbles are gone, then freeze mix for at least 24 hours. Pour
through another unbleached coffee filter to trap solids then evaporate alcohol in
pyrex tray over steaming pot @17 5 F until sap becomes flat and hardens. Scrape n
enjoy?
Ive been diggin the process so far, but with everything you know about solvents
and extractions, I just thought id ask to make sure.
Thanks for your help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 2, 2013 at 9:40 AM
The proof of the pudding is in its taste and effect. If it tastes good and works,
you have a winner!
A few differences in our processes:
I add the alcohol hot, after all the observable butane is gone.
I use closer to 10:1 alcohol to oil ratio, but dont measure it, just put in
enough so that it is still easily filterable once the temperature is lowered.
I filter before and after winterization, using a coffee filter or Wattman #1 lab
filter with vacuum assist.
17 5F works, but you can preserve more carboxylic acid closer to 140F
without vac and 115F with.
If you are using it for oral, I would use 250F, and decarboxylate at the same
time.
Posted by Arturo Gomez on April 3, 2013 at 11:14 AM
I need help! I am not decarbing my buds. I did not know about your
methods until I stumbled on your website one day and have tried to
learn as much as I can from you. Which so far I have been very
gracious for and I appreciate the time you took to make it happen. I
use Luciene butane. I use a glass extraction vessel. I wanted to know
once I blast into my dish, I add hot ethanol? What temperature? I
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have a glass vacuum desiccator with pump. But I have just been
breaking buds and packing them tight into glass vessel. I use a 200
micron mesh filter and use an unbleached coffee filter with clamp.
While I allow for the butane to evaporate as much I have in a pyrex
dish, I have not used hot water bath from the tap as you suggested,
the last time I did my blasting. Not thinking about condensation or
anything for that matterI have to say you have shed some light.
However, I am a little confused about the purge process. Why add
alcohol? As of now, I just wait till all noticeable bubbles evaporate
and then I scrape to place unto parchment paper where it fits into a
petri dish top. I place entire glass chamber on a flat skillet, due to its
best precision in heat. I purge until all bubbles are gone. But even at
low level temps and so forth, I still feel there is residual residue in my
oil and I am not content with it. So how does alcohol affect your
purging process? I understand that I would purge the oil and alcohol
together? I am trying to figure out how to make my oil proud. What
do I need to do to make my oil the best? Do I decarb before packing it
into my extraction vessel? Do I add hot alcohol to the extracted
material just enough to cover the surface area? Do allow for
evaporation to occur then or do I just go ahead and proceed as I
usually do by purging out the gases after extraction without adding
alcohol?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 4, 2013 at 7:05 AM
Adding alcohol is an option, but not necessary. We wash out
with alcohol, because we are going to winterize the oil to
remove the waxes.
We heat the alcohol to boiling before pouring it in, but it cools
down immediately. You can use cold alcohol, but it takes more
stirring and agitation to get the BHOto dissolve in it.
Purging the alcohol will remove the residual butane, by
forming an azeotrope with it, as well as stirring the puddle to
aid in the butane molecules escape.
It works best for us to decarb the oil after extraction, because
you can tell exactly what is happening, by watching the CO2
bubbles.
We are adding alcohol to the extracted oil at the ratio of about
10:1. It needs to be thin enough to filter, at around 0F.
Posted by f unkmecca on April 4, 2013 at 11:10 PM
Ok, so you decarb your oil before you add your hot
ethanol and then you winterize? I am trying to
understand your steps, are they in sequential order? The
3rd step. You say you decarb the oil. You mean you
reheat it after all visible bubbles disappear?
Do you vacuum purge or are you speaking about purging
the BHOwith ethanol by allowing the bubbles to escape,
in step 2? Or are you reheating your oil prior to vacuum
purging, then adding ethanol?
Is a thin film vacuum purge different than purging with a
chamber a hose a valve and a dual stage pump?
Thank you again for your time! You have shed much
light. I just want our oil to taste right.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 5, 2013 at 7:17 AM
No, we add the ethanol, winterize, remove the alcohol,
and then decarboxylate the oil.
We decarboxylate oil by placing a container of it in a
250F hot Canola oil bath, and watch the bubbles. See our
procedure at
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
We dont bother to vacuum purge oil that we are
decarboxylating for oral use. We use vacuum to keep the
heat low so as to preserve carboxylic acid for
vaporization.
A thin film purge is vacuum purging the material spread
out in a thin film, so that the solvent can more readily
escape.
Posted by f unkmecca on April 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Thank you again for clarification and link! I appreciate
your time and lend of knowledge. It is very generous and
well informed.
For the oral BHO, you do the steps regarding
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carboxylation and the hot alcohol.
For vaporization what you guys will do is just the
extraction onto surface area of choice and then use the
thin film technique to extract the leftover gases or
butane trapped inside the BHO? At low heat to preserve
the carboxylic acid at about 115 F, while vacuum
purging? Sorry, if this is mundane and obvious. Obvious
newbie here.
However, I am curious. Can you vaporize the oral BHO?
Also, would like to know if there is anything I should
know as far as steps and advice for making BHOfor
vaporization?
Thank you kind sir. I appreciate all your help in
advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 8, 2013 at 10:17 AM
Yes, we always decarboxylate our oral meds and
remove the inert waxes.
Yes you can vaporize oral decarboxylated BHO, but
usually dont with our oral formulas, because of the
other things that we add like cinnamon and myrrh.
The other difference between the decarboxylated AA
that we produce for oral and topical use, and the
Carboxylic acid AA that we produce strictly for
vaporization, is that one is in the decarboxylated
nonpolar form, while the latter is still in the original
polar carboxylic acid shatter form it was in on the plant.
Both work for vaporization, but the THC will typically be
slightly higher with the carboxylic acid shatter form,
because less of it will have been converted to CBN.
We get bragging rights vaporization shatter by putting
about 3/16 to 1/4 in a shallow dish and heating it to
115F in a -29.9 Hg vacuum. Control the pressure until
all violent boiling stops and then allow to cook under
vacuum until the random sized solvent bubbles are
gone, but remove as soon as only the fizzy equally sized
CO2 and terpene bubbles remain. Remove it from the
chamber at that point and let cool.
Posted by CALumi on April 8, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Well, the proof is in the pudding. I followed your steps.
Using the thin film technique. One question I have. The
initial purge was on extreme low heat. All major bubbles
dissipated during this time, like you said. It was 2 hours
of vac purging. Finally I took it out and let cool down. I
tasted a slight dab. The taste was 10x better than when I
did it the last time as a result, it gave me that resin taste
in the back of the mouth that I got from the very first
dab I ever had. I used an older batch of material, but all
flowers. I extracted onto a glass dish that sat in warm tap
water. The thin film technique was used and I got
shatter. The constancy was hard like candy. I thought it
needed more purging so I did an additional purge using
slightly higher temperature than the last time (never
above 101 F). I got more of a raw honey consistency and
the taste is a little modified. Now, it is easier to handle
with the glass dabber. It vaporizes rather quickly and
the taste seems to be more acidic? Not in a bad way at
all.. It seems to taste that initial taste and then it turns
into a bite at the end. Is this based on preference at this
point? I can do it how I did it the first time, by allowing it
to sit on a warm surface no higher than 90 F and I can
get shatter. The taste is amazing either way, but do you
think I lost something when I did it the second time
because the consistency changed and so did the taste. I
noticed it had less bubbles in between time and they
seemed to appear smaller and denser. I am just
wondering if there is one better for you than the other?
The raw honey one seems to have a sheen to it in some
parts, is this ok? Do I need to do an additional low heat
and purge? The parts that are like raw honey, change
color when I move it with the glass dabber. Is this a good
sign? Which is better? I probably did not need the
second purge, but it is much more easier to dab with.
However, I think the taste of the shatter seems cleaner
and crisper than that of the second purge. Your feedback
would be greatly received. Thank you GF for all your
help. I appreciate everything!
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 11, 2013 at 7:37 AM
Sounds like you are trying all the right things!
I get consistent shatter at 115F under -29.9 Hg vacuum.
I purge until the random sizes solvent bubbles cease,
and only the equally sized fizzy CO2 bubbles remain. I
then pull it and let it cool.
The honey consistency is because of decarboxylation
and will have a lower terpene content and be less floral,
as well as have slightly lower THC and higher CBN. It is
still good and we routinely vaporize both.
Posted by CALumi on April 9, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Dear GW, I attest that you have shed much light to my
myopic ways of thought and have helped me think
differently. Your forums helped to simplify how I was
making BHOby using your thin film technique ..I really
did not realize how much heat plays a role in making
your BHOtaste delicious. I was taught to let all bubbles
disappear. Now, I know from proof that this is NOT
TRUE. My last batch was amazing in taste, smell and
consistency. I messed around with temperatures and
found that less is better using the thin film technique. A
few questions that I have and I do not know if anyone
has ever asked? What should I do with all my BHO
reclaim that is not as good as what I am getting now? I
have some stuff that is reclaimed via ethanol and some
that I basically purged at too high-heat, resulting in the
taste to go away, but the potency is there. Should I
throw-out the old reclaimed wax? Or can it be recycled
maybe for an oral recipe? Green elixir? Something of the
sort? Also, what do I do with the left over extracted
material? Some of it smells really fresh still. Could I
make a QWET extraction from blasted material?
Thank you in advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 11, 2013 at 8:13 AM
We make an sedative oral or a topical with our reclaimed
oil.
I would repack the tube and run the material again if
microscopic examination showed that there were still
trichome heads left. You could also make a QWET.
Posted by Zephyr on May 14, 2013 at 4:36 PM
When you say Whattmann #1 are you referring to Grade 1: 11 m?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 15, 2013 at 6:10 AM
Yes #1 means grade #1.
Posted by f ullmeltmike on March 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM
Is there a method for using kief only with the column?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 29, 2013 at 9:41 AM
Yeah, weve used a 6 column on a Mk III for extracting kif with good
success. We havent tried longer columns, over concern for plugging.
Posted by Sppete13 on April 1, 2013 at 7:47 AM
I love Skunk pharms Butane Thermos QWmethod with kief. just make sure
you put your butane in the already cold thermos BEFOREputting in your
kief. or it can get messy
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Posted by Sppete13 on April 1, 2013 at 7:49 AM
(The best medicine I have made to date was pure kief doing a qw with
butane winterized absolute amber. )
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 2, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Could you explain?
We usually put the kif in the thermos before freezing it.
Posted by Mookie on March 26, 2013 at 2:05 AM
You guys are hella cool and about the mission. Many blessings.
Posted by MCon March 16, 2013 at 11:45 AM
Also, my resin puddle is maybe an 1/8 thick, will this still purge in vac tank?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 17, 2013 at 7:15 AM
Yes, if you heat it to about 115F.
Posted by Marc on March 25, 2013 at 9:15 PM
I have 2 questions. first one, if my oil comes out dark, like dark brown
or even black is there a way to remove that color and make it more
clear? yellow? Obviously the better looking product i use doesnt
come out that color but i was just wondering. and my second
question is how to get HARDSHATTER SNAP at room temp every
single time?? Sometimes it glasses up in like no time at all and when i
take it out its perfect. other times ive left it in the vac and literally
gone to bed, woken uop the next morning to take it out and it was
STILL sticky! WHY? help please.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 27, 2013 at 5:54 AM
The dark color is usually a function of heat and age of the
material. Young fresh material is lighter colored than older
dried material, because the carboxylic acid forms are lighter in
color than the decarboxylated forms. Consider the trichome
that matures from clear to dark amber.
Sativa oil is typically lighter than Indicas.
Removing it is not easy and the only reliable way that weve
found so far, is using ionic resin columns, which is slow and
expensive. In most cases, it is easier to not darken the material
in the first place.
Shatter is carboxylic acid. Any decarboxylation makes it softer
and more maleable. We get it most consistently by using young
material and using thin film purging at 115F and -29.9 Hg.
Posted by MCon March 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Hey, back again!
OK, tearing my hair out now. I had gotten a process down to deliver a very nice
extract in a flake form. Growers came out of the woodwork to dump trim on me,
now I cant get clean extract, everything tastes contaminated, never seems to stop
bubbling after 10 hours under vacuum. After finding another online info resource
on Utube, I tried a colder (120 deg f) longer purge. 20 hours at about 120, I have
burned oil with butane or something in it. I had been using power 5x, but given a
deal on Dodo 7 x I switched. I also went from an entire steel canister as vac
chamber, to a stainless lid clamped onto a pyrex bowl so I can see inside. I also
have a cheapo harbor freight vac pump.
I am out of money, barely keeping power on, sitting on loads of material that is
getting older, with folks calling me. And I cannot get my product made to save my
life. Which is what I need it to do before I lose my house. No more money to pour
into gear.. I am stumped. I am at 29 in merc vac according to guage. ?? help.
please.
MC
Seattle
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 17, 2013 at 4:34 PM
Were you flaking shatter, or were you making wax?
The oil will continue to bubble after the solvent is all gone, from
decarboxylation.
We use 115F and -29.9 to produce shatter in thin films in a couple of hours.
We watch it closely, and when the random sized bubbles stop and only the
small equally sized fizzy bubbles are left, we remove it from the chamber
and let it cool in the open air.
If you are making wax, some strains wax up easier than others. 125F at -
29.9 for as many hours as it takes, usually 10 to 20, should get you wax
with the strains that we typically work with.
Posted by chives greenthumb on March 26, 2013 at 10:58 PM
make sure the product is not stale or full of fan leaves. Both of these will
cause that taste you are mentioning and make set up much harder.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 27, 2013 at 6:34 AM
Good point! Fanleaves work well for pain, but they dont taste very
good and give you a charlie horse between the ears instead of
euphoric head effect. Ostensibly because of the older more mature
trichomes, which are sedative.
Posted by 3 kinds of BHOw/budder on March 9, 2013 at 7:09 AM
[...] Check out Jumps Absolute Amber thread for details or the last procedure
detailed on the page at http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/
Reply With [...]
Posted by Newbie BHOFeedback/Tips on March 7, 2013 at 12:44 PM
[...] by mokuro if possible, what is Double solvent method? can you link me some
tutorial about it? http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ this
guys the shit! Check out YouTube as well. Type in winterizing BHO. Reply With [...]
Posted by aaron on February 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM
hey yall wondering if someone can answer something for me. i bought my bho
steamroller from a guy who said i could reclaim my bho resin using some process
of rubbing alcohol, then letting it vapor out over a weeks time, then you can
resmoke your lost dabs has anyone heard of this? and how exactly is it done?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 24, 2013 at 7:51 AM
We clean our oil rigs in ethanol, by emersing them in alcohol until the resin
is dissolved in it. You can speed it up by heating the alcohol.
We make a sedative evening med out of it, by cooking off most of the alcohol
in our still, and boiling the rest off to atmoshpere, with the oil container
sitting in a 250F hot Canola oil bath. When it stops bubbling, it is ready.
Posted by aaron on February 24, 2013 at 10:51 PM
Would I get the same results from using 91%isopropyl? Sorry Im sort
of new at this whole thing. Initially I was concerned about heating it
too, thought maybe it might kill the potency? Also, what kind of
container are we talking for the aforementioned oil container. Is this
beyond my ability to do at home on the stove? Thanks for the
information
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 27, 2013 at 8:45 AM
Not sure exactly which oil container of which you speak, but
we usually use stainless bain marie wear from the local
restaurant supply to hold the oil and set it in hot Canola oil in
an electric fondue pot.
Posted by john on February 27, 2013 at 1:15 AM
How much canola oil per / g of absolute ethanol ? You guys are the
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best
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 27, 2013 at 8:47 AM
Umm, could you elaborate on the question?
Posted by John on February 28, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Yes, I have about 2 grams of absolute extract that I got
from reclaiming my piece with everclear numerous
times before winterizing and pouring through a coffee
filter onto Pyrex on top of a pot of water on its lowest
setting, Let it sit for about 5 hours .. Now what? I usually
just hit it on a nail again but I really want to try this
canola oil and didnt know how much to use. Thanks!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 28, 2013 at 10:45
AM
If you are mixing it with Canola oil to make an oral, it
will mix at any ratio. 100 mg is about the standard dose
for a low tolerance person, so if it is mixed 50/50, you
would have to take 200 mg to get a 100 mg dose.
For oral, we generally add about 33%coconut oil, but as
long as you do the math, you can pick our own ratios.
Posted by john on February 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Thanks! Cant wait to try it! As for my ethanol reclaim
process, anything I should tweak or change?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 9, 2013 at 3:23 PM
Sorry John, can you elaborate on your question?
Posted by f rank l jones on June 9, 2013 at 12:49 PM
been wanting to ask about the reclaim still ,im about to order the
parts to
build a unit once again I do thank you
so is this unit suitable for small bathes? like im only doing small
batches.
in between harvest like only a coulpe of ozs each time once I feel like
Ive got this dialed in then I plan on running like half pounds,so is this
unit overkill?
or would I be better off using a distiller set up?how long would it take
to reclaim 1/2 liter? just to get a idea
looking forword to hearing back
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 11, 2013 at 7:34 AM
Hi Frank, are you talking about the DIY alcohol still, or the
butane recycle system?
Posted by steve on February 23, 2013 at 3:04 PM
First BHOrun today and i have a question. When you smoke concentrates, are you
supposed to get a film, residue like feeling inside your mouth? or is that butane?
smh
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 24, 2013 at 8:09 AM
That is most likely plant waxes that are present in a raw oleoresin or
concrete. We remove those waxes by winterization, if we are going to use
the oil for vaporization.
We also remove it for oral meds, because they are basically inert and dilute
the potency. We remove it from our topical, because it is left behind on the
skin and prills up when rubbin the topical in.
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Removing them also removes some of the lighter terpenes, so the flavor
loses some of its flora undertones.
Posted by James on February 20, 2013 at 2:32 PM
Was also wondering how many minutes you guys purge absolutes at ambient
temperature in the 6 petri dish (3/16 of resin). Please let me know if there is a
more appropriate forum to discuss this in. Thank you!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 23, 2013 at 6:35 AM
As long as it takes. Usually three or four hours.
Posted by James on February 20, 2013 at 2:20 PM
My vacuum chamber reads at almost 28Hg, more like 27 3/4. Is this enough
negative pressure to evaporate ethanol at ambient temperatures? If I applied heat
from the bottom, what temperature would you recommend? My chamber is made
of thick stainless steel.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 23, 2013 at 6:42 AM
That could be either your gauge calibration, leakage, or that may be the
relative pressure at your altitude. Did you calibrate your gauges zero, hot
tight is the system, and what altitude are you at?
Some gauges faces twist off, and there is a calibration screw in the face near
the bottom where the sweep hand pivots. Vacuum grease can help seal
mating surfaces, and if 28 Hg of absolute pressure is all that you have at
your altitude, it is the same as -29-9 Hg.
Posted by Ben on February 17, 2013 at 7:00 PM
Hey GreyWolf, i was wondering your opinion on soxhlet extraction, like the Eden
labs Coldfinger?? What solvents what be best, if any??
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 18, 2013 at 7:32 AM
Soxhleting with a non polar solvent like Pentane or Hexane works OK, but
with a polar solvent it picks up excessive Chlorophyll.
Posted by nugget1 on February 17, 2013 at 10:33 AM
i have made a batch of oil and i hot water bathed it then put it on a skillet at which
bounced between 125-140 it sat for an hour i poped the bubbles with a pin then at
about an hour and half when i went to pop the bubbles it buddered up. I put some
on a pin and put a torch to it and it crackled quite a bit is there any way to re purge
to get any remaining butane out?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 17, 2013 at 10:35 PM
You can continue to purge until you feel it has achieved your desired
consistency. You may be dealing with residule water not butane. Butane
would just burn. Water will evaporate if left at 140F long enough. I would
suggest a quick trip north of 212F to make sure its gone.
Joe
Posted by James on February 12, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Before I go ahead and purchase these tubes, I was wondering if you could forsee
any problems using poplypropylene pipe 36 length and an inch in diameter. I
know the chemical comparability is fine, but do you think I would need some kind
of gasket between the male threaded pipe and female end cap? Just not sure if the
PP threads would be air-tight.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 13, 2013 at 9:35 AM
PP works fine and if you Teflon tape the threads, they should be tight
enough!
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Posted by James on February 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM
Great news! Thank you for the fast reply.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 12, 2013 at 10:42 AM
Welcome!
GW
Posted by James on February 10, 2013 at 7:38 PM
Was curious if you guys knew what PSI would be in a flowing packed column 36 in
length and 1 in diameter. Im looking into using schedule 8 polypropylene pipe
with an end cap on one end and clamped filters on the other. The max rating for
these tubes is 250 PSI, hopefully this is safe. Thanks for any and all help. Hope to
see you in March!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 11, 2013 at 7:25 AM
Ive never seen above 30 psi and usually far less.
Posted by Dr teeth on February 10, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Hello,
I recently purchased 17 0 proof ethanol (the best I could get in Ca) and did a small
test run. I was not very successful and had a very difficult time purging the water
out.
Im wondering if 99%isopropyl alcohol is acceptable for absolute amber
production?
On a side note, acrylic reacts with alcohol by cracking. So be careful with what you
make your purge chamber out of. Mine imploded and it sounded like a shotgun. I
was very fortunate to not be staring at it at the moment.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 11, 2013 at 7:36 AM
99%Iso will work for AA production.
You might also try having 190 proof shipped to you from
http://www.winechateau.com/
Posted by Zypher on May 6, 2013 at 2:45 AM
Would you please email me and elaborate? I am having difficultly
finding ethanol.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM
Email sent.
Posted by Goude Witty Comment on February 7, 2013 at 12:01 AM
Excuse the post if in the wrong area, but what are your thoughts on this product in
use for cannabis alchemy? Is it safe for use? Ultra-Ever Dry is a superhydrophobic
(water) and oleophobic (hydrocarbons) coating that will completely repel almost
any liquid. Ultra-Ever Dry uses proprietary nanotechnology to coat an object and
create a barrier of air on its surface. This barrier repels water, oil and other liquids
unlike any coating seen before. The other breakthrough associated with Ultra-Ever
Dry is the superior coating adherence and abrasion resistance allowing it to be
used in all kinds of applications where durability is required. video here.
http://youtu.be/IPM8OR6W6WE Thank you for all the information, have a
great day!!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 9, 2013 at 8:15 PM
Good question! The MSDS doesnt provide enough information to tell, but it
sure looks interesting, doesnt it?
http://www.ultraeverdrystore.com/how-to-use/base-coat-
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safety.pdf
Lots of nasty stuff that you wouldnt want in an extract, but what is unclear
is what might be remaining and what some of the proprietary ingredients
are.
Posted by MC"Mr. Science" on February 6, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Hello good people of the S-P,
I never made it down to visit in person, as my life is, .. , vigorously evolving. But
rest assured, I have been very busy in the Z-L (zombieland) refining my extraction
technique, apparently to a look that is unseen around here. One of the vendors I
process for has asked me to just make the sticky shatter because people know what
it is and he cant / is tired of explaining what this stuff is.
I started calling it Absolute Sugar tm.
So, after having the rest of the internet give me enough info to get people sick and
maybe blow myself up, I joyously found this (and many more) thread and had the
process come together.
The material:
I have used everything from big honking yellow leaves mixed with sticks and
crumbles to tiny flavor samples of AAA flowers. I think the most important aspect
of the material is uniformity. It can be really dry or a little moist ( and I mean
little) and it can be material from any where but the stem I suppose, but it should
be uniform in size and moisture content. If uniformity is not achieved, partial
extractions as well as leaching undesirable elements out faster than normal occur.
I work with glass as well, so I have the benefit of having a kiln that is usually
somewhere between 400-1000 deg sitting around that I can lay material out near
to dry it if need be. I then put on a leather glove and push/grind all the material
through a #10 screen. The material is ready for packing the
Glass Column:
I am using medium wall tubes with an IDof 1 various lengths, the average holds
about 40 grams. The glass has a dome and orifice on one end and the tube is flared
on the other, assisting in keeping screens on.
Collection vessel:
I run the butane through and into a shallow wide pyrex bowl. This sits in oil
(cooking) in a binks pressure pot (used for painting) with rubber gasket, ports, etc,
but no view window. I am using carbon steel now, but as the product never comes
in contact with it, and has a lid on during purge (overhead drips from lid). This sits
on a hot plate in front of a large explosion proof fan in my shop. The fan is run by a
pulley to a remote motor isolated from the work environs.
Process:
Heat the collection tank to about 200 and start running either 5x or 7 x butane
through the column. After a while of watching the flow of butane, having run many
many columns, I started to release pressure from the can valve, but keep the
orifice covered, stalling the butane for a little soak. I usually run 2 cans through
(300 ml ea) and had been running them back to back. I noticed after an
experiment however that more extract can be gained by being able to wet the
material more times. The brunt of the solvent kick is when it initially wets the
material, it seems to me. So I took a column, and took note of the color of the
eluate. Then I took the same size column packed with the same material, ran one
can, used compressed air to blow it out thoroughly, then ran another. The initial
eluate was almost as amber as the eluate from the beginning of the first can. It ran
to clear much faster than the first can of course, but it seemed obvious that a gain
was made.
Next I thought about very pollen heavy material and the possibility of mud
blockage, or getting a puck formed in the tube that the solvent then takes path of
least resistance and does not work on. What about back flushing? The next trial was
releasing the bottle slightly from the orifice to allow some butane to escape,
enough so I see material move up the column a little, then press the bottle back to
correct flow. Hard to gauge if this is really helpful without a bit more precise
testing and measuring.
OK, pot of very cold amber bubbly butane purging off until it is a thick fluid with
more occasional bubbles, raise heat to 160 deg f. and vacuum down to -29 for a
while. I have to open and check temp a few times to check the temp and make sure
I dont burn it due to the lack of precision in my equipment. Once it is flat, it is fully
purged. Different strains seem to take different times.
Now I put the product back into solution in either ethanol or methanol, freeze for
many hours depending on schedule, then strain through coffee filter. Marvel at the
odd mud left, of course I have gloves so I can gently squeeze out the filter to get
the most product.
Then it gets laid out on glass sheets, I tip them back and forth to thin the material
and let it cure in a warm area for 7 hours or so. Then I quickly cool it, usually by
just setting outside in Seattle. When it is cold, I feel check the product, especially
the thick spots to make sure it is hardened, not sticky or mushy. Then I razor it
up/flake it off the glass. I use parchment over the scraper due to the stuff popping
2-3 feet away sometimes when scraped. What I have is a pile of amber crystal flake
stuff that generally does not melt back into an amber shard if kept cool. Not freezer
cold, like in a cabinet so warm temp spikes in the room dont bother it.
Some people like this as the final, some want shatter. I weigh it up into grams then
flash it on parchment in front of the kiln. The stone is usually over 190 deg, but the
pile of sugar is not there long enough to get over 125 deg. Just watch it, when flat,
cool, break into chunks for packing. Very transparent. One vendor made a joke
about do I have one with a thousand year old fly in it.
I have pictures of all this stuff if you want to see. I have put off writing this as I
knew it would take a while.
Just today I had a client say the last stuff popped on the nail when he went to
vaporize it. This generally means butane. It was a small batch, so not a bunch of
people got some, but no one else has complained, and I certainly have not had any
pop when I vaporized it.
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The only difference in the batch was I went to plastic containers at the urging of a
vendor instead of parchment envelopes. I measured out the grams into the cups,
put them on the warm stone, watched the sugar melt down in a few seconds and
removed to cool.
I did have one cup left over short a gram, with sugar not melted. I vaporized, no
pop. I put the cup in front of the kiln, and when it melted down, bubbles started to
appear. I removed it, cooled a little but not to full harden, vaporized, no pop. I did
not inhale to taste, nor did the client.
How can there be butane after the methanol wash and cure??
All other batches before this pineapple express have been fine with repeat clients.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Thanks for sharing bro! Looking at your process, my guess is that the pop
was water. Water will turn a smooth burning oil into a sputtering popping
spitting oil, and there is virtually no chance there was enough butane to pop
after your process.
Posted by lindsay on April 6, 2013 at 6:38 PM
What can you do to get the water out? Just leave the concentrate out
and let it evaporate?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 7, 2013 at 7:17 AM
How much water do you have, and what product do you wish
to end up with?
Posted by Budhappy on February 4, 2013 at 12:21 PM
One other thing, the thermos soak was for about 1 hrs each time, and got maybe 20
hits each time. Even for the fresh ph that was done today.
Posted by Budhappy on February 4, 2013 at 12:19 PM
Hi all.
Just wanted to say that I ordered a vacumn chamber and had my first vacumn
purged bho oil. I dont think that I would ever smoke any other kind. I picked
some buds from my purple haze, super lemon haze, and cheese, and a homemade
hybrid of of slh x oracle. These are still a few weeks away. Havent started flush
yet. First picked fresh buds, then stuffed them in large honey bee extractor.
-30C here, so placed outside for 12 hrs. Blasted 2 cans of near zero impurities
butane. Not much oil at all. 15-20 good tokes maybe.. Ended up being the color of
hard honey. Not really yellow, more clear. Dabbed it with a buddy, (going to buy
one of those too, a dabber tastes awesome), and wow. This doesnt taste like oil. Its
like walking into a flower shop, and smelling with your taste buds.I could feel the
residue all over my teeth, gums, cheeks for about 15-20 mins later. Very uplifting
and gave me goosebumps after about 25-30 secs of inhaling. I rewashed the weed
in the thermos method, and it came out really yellow. No heat was needed for the
purge, room temp and oil was still pliable. The rewash tasted about the same, but
not quite as potent. The comedown made me a little tired. Just thermosed some
purple haze today and came out dark yellow as well. I have been a smoker since
84, and never tasted oil this good. Just my 420 cents worth.
Happy medicating!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 11:57 AM
Thanks for sharing!
Posted by The Dissent Grow - Page 758 on February 3, 2013 at 7:07 AM
[...] not so little write up , covers a lot of shit. more than I even read. now let's
make some more oil! http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/
Colorado Amendment 20 compliant! I gave up playing guitar to grow weed, I gave
up tv to [...]
Posted by star crash on February 1, 2013 at 8:47 PM
So , instead of a thermos , I tried a one quart mason jar as a collection vessel .
Experimented with 20 gs of popcorn bud and soaked them for one hour (outside
temps are below freezing so this was easy) that filtered that liquid into a tray , let
the solvent (butane) evaporate , re-dissolved in 191 proof ever clear &let
evaporate again
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Yield was .7 5 gs of very clear amber.
2NDwash the buds were powdered and soaked in the mason jar for 2 hours &
again follow the above steps
Yield was 1.25 gs of a darker , yet still translucent amber grade extract
so , around a 10%total return in an extremely easy fashion . Total butane used was
1200 milliliters
how Id do?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 4, 2013 at 7:33 AM
Good job, your 10%yield is in the ballpark for popcorn, so it sounds like you
probably got it all and very clear amber, plus your darker amber grade
sounds like the right colors.
The real test is in the taste and effects! After trying it, how do you think it
turned out?
Posted by star crash on February 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM
Taste is exquiste Its incredible!! I vaporize with a dome globe &
titanium nail set up. One small dose &Im thoroughly medicated in a
way that smoking cannabis flowers just can not achieve. These
extracts are a true shatter amber and I cant really call it an oil
per say . Im very proud . Ive been smoking cannabis since 197 3 &at
almost 52 years of age Ive really discovered something special ,
thanks in part to folks such as yourself. I will try to get some pics up
at icmag
much peace from Star Crash!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 11:58 AM
Looking forwar to the pictures!
GW
Posted by How of ten do you dab? - Page 2 - Grasscity.comForums on January 30, 2013 at 8:30 PM
[...] [...]
Posted by Toke Signals with Steve Elliott | Absolute Medication: To Hash Oil And Beyond! | Toke Signals
with Steve Elliott on January 29, 2013 at 10:31 AM
[...] [Skunk Pharm Research LLC] [...]
Posted by Laron on January 26, 2013 at 9:50 AM
I found desecration jars at amazon I also have a vid on making a great chamber out
of a co2 alum pressure vessel the des jar is good to 29 inches of mercury complete
and total evacuation at EXTREAMLY low temps
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 29, 2013 at 6:20 AM
Love to see your video link!
GW
Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:44 PM
Candy topical cream cough drops chapstick and questionable to some animal treat
slash meds
Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:37 PM
decarboxylated oil plus your favorite honey plus 2 teaspoons of coconut oil plus
proper catalyst and mixing procedure makes absolute 100 percent measurable
amount gof THC given proper storage measures. that can go into any recipe,
homemade soda, favorite drink
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Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:17 PM
Allows larger quantities of oil to come out cleaner with less effort for medical use
via vaporization and seems to leave the high in cannabinoid leaf material or
cellulose to be extracted for topical use. I would like to know if Im losing out on
precious Micro chemicals in my head stash by using this mmethod
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 31, 2013 at 3:48 PM
Maybe less flavor, but the important terpenes and cananbinoids should be
there.
GW
Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:10 PM
silk screen from bubble bags work very well for screens and a add a question for
anyone.
does oil made from only kief only have a different chemical composition then usin
g kief and plant material or celluose together at the same time. I find that in all kief
g extraction allows larger quantities of oil additional in vaporizer a shin use to be
extracted
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 31, 2013 at 3:47 PM
Weve extracted premium oil from kif, and it is different that oil from plant
material.
Posted by Sppete13 on February 7, 2013 at 8:38 AM
What is the best way to do this?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 11:18 AM
If you are asking what the best method to extract BHO, I like
using a closed circuit Terpenator best, but a column or
thermos both work well, albeit at a higher operating cost.
Posted by jesse on January 20, 2013 at 6:14 AM
According to the cole-parmer compatibility chart butane causes a severe reaction
to silicone, so what are you suppose to vac purge on after you scrape it off Pyrex? I
saw you say it was ok to blast onto parchment, although certain company started
producing ptfe paper specifically for that purpose. Thoughts? Another question I
have is I scored a vac oven on ebay for 100 bucks but it doesnt a window in the
door so I have to open it to check on the oil, is that problematic? Can I replace the
door with lexan or will the butane cloud and crack it? Also you guys rock and I
wish I could come to or to take a class but I live in ri
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 21, 2013 at 8:56 AM
The word Silicone covers a range of manmade polymers, based on a silica
backbone, with carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and other atoms bonded at the
atomic level. It is used in oil and grease, silicone rubber, silicone resins,
silicone caulking, adhesives, etc.
We may be talking semantics and word usage with the Cole-Palmer
compatibility charts, as they are soaking mostly gasket materials in different
solutions, to observe weight gain, loss, and change of physical appearance.
The polymers dont all react the same to n-butane, and another issue Cole
Palmer would have against using a silicone gasket material, is its gas
permeability. It is about 400 times more permeable than butyl rubber, so
while it is super for medical applications requiring aeration, it stinks for a
gas tight seal.
A silicone resin spray, doesnt care about gas permeability, and the n-
Butane molecule has full valence orbit, it is not likely to react with the
highly inert Silicone resin. Neither appears to be reactive enough to start or
support a reaction at the temperatures involved.
I would be more concerned about PTFEfinding its way into my heated oil,
because even though it has a combustion temperature that starts
decomposing it as low as 200C/392F (163C/325F?), if you read the fine
print of the following two links, you will note the following issues, amongst
them HF acid as a pyrolysis byproduct:
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a2f806ab36e.pdf
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
Acute inhalation toxicity: The thermal decomposition vapours
of fluorinated polymers may cause polymer fume fever with flu-
like symptoms in humans, especially when smoking
contaminated tobacco.
The pyrolysis of PTFE is detectable at 200 C(392 F), and it
evolves several fluorocarbon gases[21] and a sublimate. An
animal study conducted in 1955 concluded that it is unlikely
that these products would be generated in amounts significant
to health at temperatures below250 C(482 F).[22] More
recently, however, a study documented birds having been killed
by these decomposition products at202 C(396 F), with
unconfirmed reports of bird deaths as a result of non-stick
cookware heated to as little as 163 C(325 F).[21][23]
While PTFE is stable and nontoxic, it begins to deteriorate after
the temperature of cookware reaches about 533 K (260 C; 500
F), and decomposes above 623 K (350 C; 662 F).[24] These
degradation by-products can be lethal to birds, and can cause
flu-like symptoms in humans.[24] In May, 2003, the
environmental research and advocacy organization
Environmental Working Group filed a 14-page brief with the U.S.
Consumer Product Safety Commission petitioning for a rule
requiring that cookware and heated appliances bearing non-
stick coatings carry a label warning of hazards to people and to
birds.[25]
Meat is usually fried between 400 and 450 F (204 and 232 C),
and most oils will start to smoke before a temperature of 500 F
(260 C)is reached, but there are at least two cooking oils (refined
safflower oil and avocado oil) that have a higher smoke point
than 500 F(260 C). Empty cookware can also exceed this
temperature upon heating.
[edit]PFOA
Perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA or C8) has been linked to cancer,
thyroid disease, ulcerative colitis, and high cholesterol.[26] In
the form of an ammonium salt,[27] it is used as a surfactant in
the emulsion polymerization of PTFE,[28] [29] and has been
detected in some PTFE products. [30][31] The levels that have
been measured in nonstick cookware range from not detectable
to 75 parts per billion.[31] [32] These are lower than in PTFE
products such as thread sealant tape (with 1800 parts per billion
(1.8 parts per million) of PFOA detected) because nonstick
cookware is heated to volatilize PFOA.[30]
A DuPont study on Teflon PTFE did not detect any PFOA above
their detection limit of 9 parts per billion,[33] and DuPont says
no PFOA is in Teflon brand cookware.[34] A 2009 USEPA study
found levels of PFOA in nonstick cookware ranging from
undetected (with a detection limit of 1.5 parts per billion) to 4.3
parts per billion.[31] DuPont says there should be no measurable
amount on a finished pan provided it has been properly
cured.[35] While PFOA has been detected in the lowparts per
billion range in the blood of people,[36]exposure from nonstick
cookware is considered insignificant[37][38] despite the
marketing of other wares. However, at temperatures well above
those encountered in cooking,[39] PTFE pyrolysis can form
minor amounts of PFOA.[40][41]
In January 2006, DuPont, the only company that manufactures
PFOA in the US, agreed to eliminate releases of the chemical
from its manufacturing plants by 2015,[42] but did not commit
to completely phasing out its use of the chemical. In the
emulsion polymerization of PTFE, 3Msubsidiary Dyneon has
developed a replacement emulsifier[43] despite DuPont stating
that PFOA is an essential processing aid.[44] As of August
2008, the EPAs position was that it has no information that
routine use of household or other products using
fluoropolymers, such as nonstick cookware or all weather
clothing, poses a concern.[45]
GW
Posted by jesse on January 21, 2013 at 9:24 AM
Thank you. So do you think it is worth it for me to make a transparent
door for my vacuum oven?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 21, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Yes, but probably not out of Lexan. In the right thickness it
would be strong enough, but wouldnt like any upper 292F
decarboxylation temperatures and might suffer high cyclic
fatigue.
Lighting the oven and installing a tempered glass sight glass, or
small glass window just big enough to tell what was going on
might work better. For design purposes, glass has about the
same rigidity as alumnimum. Both have I values of 10 X10-6,
while steel is 30 X10-6.
Posted by Dr teeth on January 21, 2013 at 10:57 AM
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I justed used 3/8 acrylic for my homemade vacuum
chamber. I cycle it often and for long periods and it has
no problems. My 14x14 piece cost me around $25. It
rests on top of a 20 quart aluminum pot that was $38
shipped to my door. With my vac gauge, brass fitting and
vacuum hose my entire 5 gallon (12 id) vac chamber
was under $100. I suggest people just go look at some
diys instead of giving the DIY guys on eBay around $120
profit.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 22, 2013 at 5:34 AM
Good show building your own! How hot have you
operated it?
Posted by jesse on January 22, 2013 at 5:39 AM
Yeah making my own was next if the vac oven was
broke, I feel safer running an oven for ten hours, saw too
many crushed stock pots on tc lol
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 24, 2013 at 6:26 AM
Yeah, it definitely requires a heavy wall pot, as
atmospheric pressure is almost 15 pounds per square
inch.
Posted by f obextractions on January 18, 2013 at 10:11 PM
Where did you source your information that our sensory threshold for n-butane is
6.61ppm? thank you. A link would be greatly appreciated!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 19, 2013 at 10:20 AM
Hi FE! Sorry, after four hours of searching, I havent located my original
source, so Ive changed that reference in the posting. Thanks for pointing it
out to
As I recall, it came up in a search on the suitability of n-butane as a food
propellant, but too much time since I researched it too few brain cells left. If
I run across it again, I will record the source and give you a heads up.
GW
Posted by Mark on January 23, 2013 at 9:17 AM
Hello Skunk Pharm Researchers. Thank you for all of your dedicated work
here. In reference to a question posted by fobextractions, Jan 18, 2013, I
have found a different value and source for the sensory threshold of n-
butane. The TEXAS COMMISSION ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
published FACT SHEET Butane, All Isomers July, 2012. The bottom pf
page 1 states, An odor detection threshold of 1,200 ppm was reported for
n-butane.
Hope this helps!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 24, 2013 at 6:54 AM
Thanks Mark, it does trump my Praxaire MSDS source for odor
detection! Still trying to find my data source on taste!
GW
Posted by Dr. Teeth on January 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM
Sorry, I have a lot of questions. Im a strong believer in The waiting man gets the
wind behind him. So stop rushing into things and plan properly in order to be
successful.
1) What length for single pass extraction do you recommend? Also with a 1
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diameter, how much dry material can you fit into say a 2 long extraction vessel?
2) I am wondering what vacuum pump and purge container you are using and if
you can link where I could purchase one or one similar online? I noticed that your
purge container has a rubber stopper that can allow the power cord for your
hotplate to work. Would you still recommend using a hotplate or could you simply
submerge the purge container into temperature controlled hot water?
3) I had a friend point out to me that a metal extraction vessel has a possibility of
creating a spark and starting a fire; so he recommended using plastic. Do you find
these claims to be valid or not really worth worrying about? I can order PP online
or get SS locally, they cost about the same.
4) As for the filter at the end of the extraction vessel, is a certain micron
recommended or does any fine mesh work?
Im sure I have more questions but cannot think of anymore at the moment.
Thank you
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 10, 2013 at 9:01 AM
When using columns, I ended up with three glass ones. A 12, a 24, and a
36. By a factor of 10X, my most used one was the 36 and the least used the
24. I either had a short run, or was in a hurry with a long one.
How much weight you get in a column, depends on what it is and how hard
you pack it. For instance, a 1 X1 1/2 X24 column on a Mk IIIA has 35.6
cubic inch internal capacity, and holds from 135 to 203 grams of material,
depending on whether it is prime bud or trim, how wet it is, and who is
packing it.
The way we prepare our bud, I pack about 150 grams in that column, so that
is about 4.2 grams per cubic inch. A 1 X24 column would therefore hold
about 80 grams.
Our pumps range from a surplus MASHpump, a CPS VP6DAC vacuum
pump, and a Robinair 15500. We got them all off e-Bay.
I picked up a glass vacuum desiccator from American Scientific, but you
might look at what they use in the epoxy casing industry to degas castings.
IE: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Gallon-Vacuum-Chamber-With-
3-CFM-Vacuum-Pump-New-/130690001230?
pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1e6dbb294e#ht_1811wt_932
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Gallon-Vacuum-Chamber-for-
Silicone-and-Resin-Casting-/130690140675?
pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1e6dbd4a03#ht_1503wt_932
You can simply submerge a suitable container in hot water and in fact, we
also do that using a Lil Terp tank.
Your friends concerns are ill founded and the Terpenator wont work in
plastic, because of the heat transfer rates. The butane is in a closed cycle,
where there is no oxygen to burn, nor any way for a spark to get to it, unless
you have a leak.
Because it always possible to have a leak, we use these puppies only in well
ventilated areas, and away from ignition sources.
As the joke goes, Please lean back and relax for your trip, as all human
error has been removed from the controls of this vessel and absolutely
nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong..
We use a 20 mesh screen at both ends of the column, and pack two wadded
up coffee filters in both ends of the plant material, which the screens hold in
place.
We also filter it with a coffee filter, when we wash it out of the container with
ethanol, and again after we winterize the ethanol to remove waxes. We use
either a coffee filter, or a #1 Wattman (17 mic) filter, with a vacuum assist.
If we are serious, we then filter with a 0.2 micron syringe filter, to get out
mold and bacteria.
Posted by Les Reasonover on January 7, 2013 at 3:46 PM
What is the benefit, if any, of ingesting oil with THCA (low heat purged Concrete) as
opposed to oil that has undergone decarboxylation with THCA converted to THC?
I have found ingesting oil that has not undergone decarboxylation, that contains
high THCA and low THC provides good pain relief with less intoxication.effects. Is
this the reason for making such a oil? If not, what are the reasons? Are there some
conditions the high THCA and low THC extract is more effective for?
Great info! Thanks!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 9, 2013 at 9:48 AM
I am asking those same questions, as it would appear that undecarboxylated
cannabis oils still cure things. Is decarboxylation only necessary to make
the THC pass the blood brain barrier more readily, so that it is orally active?
So far the best answer that I have is that THCA may act on other receptor
sites than the CB-1, to create its effects.
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Posted by Les on January 9, 2013 at 1:44 PM
or reacts to the CB-1 receptors in a different way or
decarboxylates in the body releasing over time? I seem to get some
psychoactive effects from undecarboxylate oil/bud. Is this THCA or
CDBor some combination thereof or is it a small amount THCA that
has been decarboxylated? Either way, Im thinking it is essentially the
same as ingesting fresh bud (a very nice and popular way to medicate,
for pain at least) without the hassle of a constant supply of ripe fresh
harvested material. Thanks for your input!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 10, 2013 at 7:41 AM
The CB-1 receptors are in the brain, so the blood brain barrier
issue would be a problem for polar carboxylic acid.
CBD, reacting mostly with the CB-2 receptors scattered
throughout our bodies, doesnt produce psychoactive results,
as it is an analgesic. The CB-2 receptors do however control
much of our immune system, so Im guessing it is the CBDthat
is responsible for much of the effects and it doesnt have to be
decarboxylated to reach the CB-2 receptors.
Posted by Dayzt on January 10, 2013 at 9:00 AM
Great conversation regarding CBD! I just wanted to add
decarbed or not, infusing it with something (ie: cococnut
oil) will help keep it tied up in your system longer,
thereby giving a better chance to be effective before it
passes through the body. Just my 2c =)
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 11, 2013 at 6:24 AM
Very good point! One of the purposes of coconut oil in
our orals, are to tie up the liver processing it, so as to
increase cannabinoid residence time.
Posted by Les on January 11, 2013 at 7:47 AM
Yes Dayzt, I have been using olive and grape seed oils
for ingestion but after reading here I see there is
evidently an advantage to using coconut oil. I rub a
couple of drops of ~1:1 BHOand carrier oil on my gums.
Works fast and great! Thanks again for the excellent info
SPR. Very helpful!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 12, 2013 at 4:33 AM
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted by CannaBliss Liberty on February 23, 2013 at 4:58 PM
Just wanted to point out that CB1 receptors are also
expressed in liver, fat, muscles (theres more) cells,
digestive tract and in the lungs and kidneys, to name a
few. There is also large concentrations in the spine.
Also Dr. Courtney has said that there is some evidence
that show the so called CB3 receptor (which does not
respond to any active Cannabinoid) responds to
Cannabinoid Acids.
Posted by hitboro on January 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Hi! Could you please help me come up with a way to filter the sulphur out of my
shatter? Its the best looking extraction but the buds had been under a sulphur
burner and it leaves a bad taste. Is there anyway of filtering sulphur out of the final
product?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 8, 2013 at 6:58 AM
I am happyto troubleshoot your sulfur problem. Please send your
telephone contact info to joeoakes@skunkpharmresearch.com and I
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will contact you in the evening.
Posted by Dayzt on December 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM
Hey there GW been doing a ton of reading on your blogreally great resource!!
Weve made some really nice BHOusing the Honey Bee Exctractor device from
BUZZnn.ca (check the website) and are looking to decarb our BHOto make it
usable orally like the Rick Simpson oil so if Im understanding correctly, we can
heat our BHO(thick, amber oil) slightly to decarboxilate it then maybe add a
small amount of coconut oil to it in that state, mix it together and syphon it to use
drop by drop? Comments..? Thanks again!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 28, 2012 at 12:00 PM
Yes, place it in a 250F oven or hot oil bath and watch the bubbles to keep
track of decarboxylation as outlined in
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
Adding coconut oil is a good idea, as it keeps the liver tied up processing it
and it takes longer to remove the cannabinoids from our systems.
Posted by Dayzt on December 28, 2012 at 2:01 PM
Ok, thanks! I would assume we can just use the same pyrex weve
extracted the oil into, once the liquid butane has all evaporated..?
(Normally, for gathering BHOfor vaporizing, we do the wash with the
honey-bee device, then put the pyrex into another larger pyrex that
has hot water in it (a hot bath) to soften the oil then use razor-
blades to scrape up the oil and drip it into small vials. In order to do
that though, we have to use a lighter so it will drip off the blade into
the viali think that process may be burning off some of the THC..?)
So we should be able to just take the pyrex after the butane
evaporates and put into the oven at 250, watch for the bubbles to
stop, then add a small amt of coconut oil to the pyrex directly, stir it
in and pour into a vial or syphon it up?
Thanks againthis is very helpful, especially since we have such a
limited supply of product to work with, so every drop counts! peace.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 29, 2012 at 3:44 AM
It should work as you have outlined, but it is important that a
good hot water purge be used before putting the oil in the
oven, because excess butane can cause an explosion.
What we like to do instead, is use a deeper bain marie vessel to
catch and boil off the butane, and then set the bain marie vessel
directly in a 250F hot oil bath, with the ventilation hood going.
Posted by benjaminword on December 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM
Can you shoot bho on to parchment paper?
Your thoughts
Love the info on your site
Thanks
Ben
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 23, 2012 at 12:48 PM
People certainly can and do just that, to good effect.
I dont see anything in the silicone parchment paper that should be an issue,
but wouldnt use a silicone rubber pad, as it is unsuitable for butane service.
Thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by Zypher on May 6, 2013 at 2:01 AM
What about the silicon pads here?
http://oilslickpad.com/
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 9:25 AM
We are experimenting with an Oil Slick pad in the vacuum
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chamber for purging, but now for blasting directly onto.
Posted by Will on December 20, 2012 at 11:01 PM
First, thank you! To Greywolf and the whole Skunkpharm team your sharing of
knowledge and experience has been such a blessing to me. Ive loved honing my
skills and brain storming some new projects thanks to your work.
Second, do you have to constantly pull a vaccuum on BHO? Ive seen people online
use a simple hand pump to evacuate the chamber and leave it there. Ive always
done a constant vacuum but never done a side by side comparison.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 21, 2012 at 4:50 AM
As the solvents purge from the liquid, it will cause the vacuum to decay and
atmospheric pressure to rise. It is necessary to keep the vacuum pumped
down, but you can pump it down and simply valve it off under vacuum, so
as to periodically shut down the pump. When the vacuum decays, simply
pump it back down again.
Posted by Jimmy on December 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM
Hey guys, absolutely love the site. Definitely the most informative resource on
extractions and the like.
My question is this: my friend just bought an 8cfm vacuum pump along with a nice
little desiccator. Works great. Problem is that he lives in a place that doesnt really
have the space to run butane safely. Combine this with the fact that we all ride
bikes and you can see how it would be difficult to transport the 50 pound pump
across town to my place just to extract outside.
So, in order to make life easy, weve left the pump at his house. He would like to
run the material at my place then take the non-purged oil in a container back to his
place to vacuum purge.
My concern is that waiting up to 20 minutes from the time the oil is extracted to
the time that it is purged will allow the oil to harden, thereby making it difficult to
fully purge the butane. The only way that I can see us removing all of the butane
from hardened oil is to reheat it . This worries me, though, as I fear that the
temperatures necessary to melt the oil back to the point of allowing the vacuum to
work will kill flavor. The point of having a vacuum is for us to maintain the lowest
temperatures possible. If this is indeed what were trying to achieve, does allowing
the oil to harden before purging force us to use higher temps than we would if we
transferred the oil straight into the vacuum chamber.
I just worry that the dude isnt getting the most out of his $300+ setup
Thanks!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 19, 2012 at 6:08 AM
No problem, just heat the oil to 115F before vacuuming. The butane will exit
at that temperature and decarboxylation is minimized.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 15, 2012 at 11:36 PM
I am interested in using your thermos method for small high quaility personal use
batches. It seems the most cost effective, straight forward, and safe. I do have a
few questions. You said you add the butane pre chilled? Is this done in a
refrigerator or freezer and for how long? Also When you transfer the butane
mixture out of the thermos, how fine is the strainer you use? Is there a specific
micron count to shoot for? And is it possible to purge all of the butane using only
low heat (suspended in a constant flow of 114 degree water for example) without
reaching decarboxylation and losing those valuable flavor and aromatic
components which I want to preserve? A decent vacuum system is financially out
of reach at this time but I still wish to make the highest quality product I can with
what I can afford. I dont necessarily care about consistency of the final product,
more the preservation of flavor, aroma, and potency.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 16, 2012 at 2:21 AM
Also, when allowing the butane mixture to soak in the thermos, do you
leave the lid off to Allow butane to boil off? Or is the whole idea to keep the
thermos as sealed and cold as possible during the soak period to keep any
water content tied up in ice form until the butane is removed?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2012 at 8:16 AM
I leave the top cap, with the holes in it, in place and drap a towel over
the thermos, in the shade somewhere. There is little outgassing, but it
will need to escape.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2012 at 8:22 AM
We stick it in a freezer set at -18C/0F until it is stable at that temperature.
I just dump the butane through a French Chinose strainer for a fast drain,
because I will filter it again when I wash it out of the collection vessel with
alcohol, and yet again when I winterize it.
If I wasnt winterizing, I would dump it through a wire strainer setting in a
larger paper filter, or stretch a paper filter over the opening of the thermos.
A paper filter by itself will start to clog, resulting in a lot of oil left behind on
it as the flow slows to a stop.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 16, 2012 at 8:31 AM
Thanks for the speedy response! I see so there are a couple extra
steps I was unaware of. Forgive my ignorance, but may I ask what
winterizing entails? So after the butane is purged from your product
you use alcohol to easily remove the product from its collection
vessel, and then run it through a different screen? Then evaporate the
alcohol content? Clarification would be most appreciated. (If youd be
willing to get more detailed about your process please message me at
entity_exe@yahoo.com).
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2012 at 5:50 AM
Yes, we heat 190 proof to boiling and pour it in the collection
tank, to dissolve and wash out the collected oil.
We filter the mixture through a coffee filter, or through a
Wattman #1 lab filter, using vacuum assist.
We place that mixture in a freezer for 48 hours, to coagulate
the waxes and fats, which we filter out using a coffee filter or a
Wattman #1.
We then evaporate away the alcohol.
Reply sent to your e-addy.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 17, 2012 at 3:09 AM
I apologize for asking so much, but the more I learn, the more
questions I have! Compiling all necessary information in logical order
is a project in its own! I should clarify that I intend to make these
extractions for vaporizing.
I found your seperate thread detailing the winterizing process. So
with this method, after the butane and plant material have soaked
long enough in the thermos, you first do a fast and crude strain into
a collection vessel to boil off the butane content?
Then wash with ethanol and do a finer strain through coffee filters
Before winterizing, Or just go straight to winterizing without filtering
first? And when boiling off the ethanol after all waxes etc have been
filtered out, what process and safety precautions should be taken?
Another question pushing the winterized absolute through a
syringe filter would be the last step of the process? To remove any
final remaining plant or bacteria particles Id assume.
Again I apologize for all of the questions. I want to do this safely and
correctly the first time. I would like to thoroughly document my
experiences for everyone else to learn from as you all have.
Thank you.
-T
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2012 at 6:18 AM
Submitted on 2012/12/17 at 6:14 AM| In reply to
unlikelyhero432.
Then wash with ethanol and do a finer strain through coffee
filters Before winterizing, Or just go straight to winterizing
without filtering first?
You can do it either way, but we usually strain twice.
Some of the waxes also fall out during the first filter,
so there is less to filter the second time around.
And when boiling off the ethanol after all waxes etc have been
filtered out, what process and safety precautions should be
taken?
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You can simply evaporate away the alcohol, boil it off,
distill it off, or vacuum it off. It is a flammable, and
should be treated as such.
Another question pushing the winterized absolute through a
syringe filter would be the last step of the process? To remove
any final remaining plant or bacteria particles Id assume.
0.2 micron syringe filtering is the last step, and we use
it only when we have reason to be concerned.
Most of our stuff just gets coffee filter filtration, or
Wattman #1 using vacuum.
Again I apologize for all of the questions. I want to do this
safely and correctly the first time. So I need to make sure I
have all steps in order. i would like to thoroughly document
my experiences for everyone else to learn from as you all have.
Thank you
-T
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted by Bob Gargamel on December 18, 2012 at 9:49 PM
I am in the midst of trying a new methodwel new to meBlasting the
butane thru the tube into a mason jar. letting the butane evap, then using
everclear in the jar and putting it into the frezer for 48 hours. after that im
goin to filter the alcohol and then let that evap in a warm bathhoping it
comeds out well.tryin to maximize all meds..im used to doin a steam
purgehasnt done me wrong yet but still wanna learn new ways.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 19, 2012 at 5:56 AM
Glass doesnt tolerate thermal stess well, so you might consider
blasting into a stainless container and washing it out with the ethanol
and pouring it into the fruit jar for winterization.
Ive had enough ah shits using fruit jars, that I am very selective
where.
Posted by Bob Gargamel on December 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM
I had thought of that so i am only blastin into each jar once
then its cleaned and cycles to the curing roomand also i
dont use high heats, at least not enough to fracture the jar, but i
had thought about that prior, good point. well in the end i
filtered the solution, into a pyrex dish where i then gave a few
hour warm bath to it. end result amazingBob Gargamel
from OR
P.S. Yous have an awesome site here. So much info and
innovative ideas.RIDEMIGHTY HIGH!!!!
Posted by Bob Gargamel on December 20, 2012 at 1:46 PM
also, i usually do a steam purge and the end product is a
shatter or Jolly rancher as i call it.this end product is
more a plyable taffy,very easy to dabinsky
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 21, 2012 at 4:51
AM
Good job and thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 15, 2012 at 11:28 PM
I am interested in using your thermos method for small high quaility personal use
batches. It seems the most cost effective, straight forward, and safe to expirement
with starting out. I do have a few questions. When prechilling your butane, do you
put it ina regular fridge or freezer and for how long? Also When you transfer the
butane mixture out of the thermos after it has soaked in the plant material,, how
fine is the strainer you pour it through? Is there a specific micron count to shoot
for? And is it possible to purge all of the butane using only low heat (suspended in a
constant flow of 114 degree water for example) without reaching decarboxylation
and losing those valuable flavor and aromatic components that i seek to preserve?
How long would this take, and would I have to constantly aid the butane escaping
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process by popping bubbles etc? A decent vacuum system is financially out of
reach at this time. But I still wish to make the highest grade product I can with
what I can afford.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2012 at 5:42 AM
Submitted on 2012/12/15 at 11:28 PM
I am interested in using your thermos method for small high quaility
personal use batches. It seems the most cost effective, straight forward, and
safe to expirement with starting out. I do have a few questions.
When prechilling your butane, do you put it ina regular fridge or freezer and
for how long?
I put it in a 0F freezer, until it reaches 0F. Usually I put it in
overnight.
Also When you transfer the butane mixture out of the thermos after it has
soaked in the plant material,, how fine is the strainer you pour it through?
I use a French chinoise wire strainer, followed by a commercial
coffee filter, or plan to strain it again while winterizing.
Is there a specific micron count to shoot for?
0 to 20 microns works well.
And is it possible to purge all of the butane using only low heat (suspended
in a constant flow of 114 degree water for example) without reaching
decarboxylation and losing those valuable flavor and aromatic components
that i seek to preserve?
Any heat decarboxylates, low heat just does it slower. 114F is not
hot enough, without a vacuum. Try 140F at atmospheric
pressure.
How long would this take, and would I have to constantly aid the butane
escaping process by popping bubbles etc?
~8 to 24 hours.A decent vacuum system is financially out of reach at this
time. But I still wish to make the highest grade product I can with what I can
afford.
Posted by Minor Wager on December 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM
Thanks for all the great info! Been all over the forums and Im even more confused
than when I started. Seems like everyone just wants to argue shatter vs
wax/butter. Inevitably, during my super thin film vac purging of micro batches
(.5-1gm) of clear bho, there is a small point(s) created that is a little cloudy. The
longer I purge, the more the clouds grow, usually from the center out until the
entire sample is a honeycomb or wax cookie. Ive aso noticed this process
seems to be more frequent with higher temps and/or if I scrape or otherwise
agitate the oil before the vac. Was hoping you guys have a straight answer as to
what is actually happening here and how to avoid this.
Also, after a few days storage of my glassy shatters, the outer surface becomes
covered in micro bubbles, causing the surface to appear lighter in color and
seemingly very dry. Not sure how these bubbles form at all as the oil completely
hard and glassy. When handled, the bubbles break, leaving a dry dust. Some have
said these is unpurged butane while others say it is moisture escaping?
Thanks again for any help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2012 at 4:52 AM
I think you get so many different answers, because no one knows for sure
what is causing the waxing action, including me.
As far as clouds, Ive noticed that if I pull a hard vacuum on BHOat room
temperature, that bubbles try to form, but cant. As I warm it up, at about
115F, bubbles start to break free at the surface.
I get no waxing at 115F, though I have from about 130/160F.
What comes off first, is the solvent in random sized bubbles, followed by
fizzy CO2 bubbles. They do come off in clouds and I suspect the source of
your post purge bubbles.
What temperature do you purge at and at what point do you stop purging?
Posted by Minor Wager on December 15, 2012 at 7:37 AM
I try to keep my purge temp around 120F and was under the
impression that I should purge until all bubbling stops. I definitely do
get spots of tiny, fizzy, equally sized bubbles and alot of times, these
are the starting points of the waxing. At these temps, can these CO2
bubbles be the result of decarboxylation?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2012 at 7:48 AM
Yes, there is decarboxylation at 115F, it is just slower.
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Posted by concentrait on December 14, 2012 at 12:56 PM
How long do you vac it for
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2012 at 4:19 AM
Untill the solvent bubbles stop forming and the pool clears.
Posted by Oliver on December 10, 2012 at 5:59 PM
So I am vacuum purging about 10 grams right now, with no heat.
Is heat necessary?!
If not, how long should 10grams take approximately?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 11, 2012 at 6:58 AM
With no heat at all, even in a thin film, it will take days or weeks. If you look
very closely, you will see bubbles trying to form under the surface, and
making bulges, but are unable to break free. If you will bring the
temperature up to 115F, they will break free and start to disapate.
Posted by Jack Draak on January 5, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Something Im experimenting with is using a bit of iso-alcohol in the
capture/purge vessel even a teaspoon will greatly change: boiling
point, viscosity &surface tension My working theory is that with
the reduced viscosity you need less heat and/or vacuum to purge the
butane and propane. Of course, you either need to dehydrate your
alcohol or consider that youll be adding a small amount of water to
your solution. By raising the boiling point somewhat, you reduce the
chance of having a rolling boil which could be seen as beneficial: with
a slower purge its easier to maintain a safe vapour concentration
level; the also means that the cooling effect will be slowed-down,
reducing or eliminating some condensation concerns, perhaps
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 13, 2013 at 6:12 AM
Good show experimenting! Hoping you will share your results
bro!
Posted by Derrick on January 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM
Just wanted to say thank you for all of the great information youre
sharing. I can honestly say that I have learned more about the BHO
process from your sharing than anywhere else. Maybe you can help
me feel a little more confident in my lab skills by addressing one of
my concerns. I purchased a 12 glass vacuum desiccator and Robinair
model#15500 pump. I would like to make a butane free extract
however I am concerned about the safety of using a hot plate inside
the vacuum chamber. Would you mind sharing with me your
reasoning on the safety of this method so I can confidently produce
the cleanest and safest BHOfor our Colorado patients. Thanks.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 14, 2013 at 4:52 AM
The laboratory hotplate has solid state controls and is
sparkless. Under vacuum there isnt sufficient oxygen to
combust the solvent.
Posted by Shannon on December 9, 2012 at 12:48 AM
Ive searched deep and wide and this website is by far the most complete and
accurate collection of information for anyone looking to do solvent extractions
safely. Thank you for sharing so much hard earned knowledge and taking the time
to put together an easy to navigate site.
Have you tried using soda or Cornelius kegs in any of your terpenator
incarnations? Stainless steel, liquid and vapor taps, a port on top you can reach
your arm in, 5 gallons @ 130psi max. Great success, except the butane swells the
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rubber o-rings so I have to swap them out from time to time.
Also, what advantages and disadvantages do you see in using this machine for
recovery?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 9, 2012 at 4:44 AM
No, but I sure looked at them. The terpenator tank needs to hold both
pressure and vacuum, which ostensibly makes the Cornelius keg lid design
unsuitable.
Are you able to pull -29.9Hg on your kegs?
The primary benefits that I see using recovery is that we can extract a gram
of oil for about $0.038, dont pollute the atmosphere, and it is a safer fully
enclosed process for most folks. The advantage of using pumps over passive
recovery, is speed. I can extract twice as much material in 15 minutes using
a Terpenator Mk III, than I can using a Lil Terp passive extractor, in 1 hour,
45 minutes.
GW
Posted by Shannon on December 9, 2012 at 9:51 AM
Thanks for the speedy response, here are some more details on my
current process.
1. Keg filled with plant matter
2. Keg hooked to another empty keg from liquid to liquid tap with
clear line
3. Recovery machine hooked to empty keg vapor tap
4. Recovery tanks liquid tap hooked up to 1st kegs vapor tap
5. Recovery machine turned on
6. Liquid from recovery tank slowly added to 1st keg keeping under
10psi (freezes keg)
7 . When I see liquid coming through the clear line from keg to keg I
flip the first keg over.
8. Continue adding liquid butane keeping under 10psi.
9. When I see liquid in the clear line again I know the 1st keg is full of
sub-freezing liquid butane and I flip the keg back right-side-up.
10. When I see air in the clear line again I disconnect the two kegs and
fill the 1st one with liquid butane @ 80psi for a second, room temp
run.
11. I place the second keg in a bucket of hot water and leave it on the
recovery machine until it reads <5psi
12. I blow the remaining, now fairly thick, butane from the 2nd keg
into a mason jar which has a bulk-head fitting in the lid and connects
to the recovery machine for a 115F @ -29.9"Hg final purge.
In my previous posting "this machine" was supposed to be a link to
the brochure for the machine I'm using, but the HTML force is not
with me today.
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diagnostics/salessheets/EEAC307C-
308C.pdf
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 10, 2012 at 7:17 AM
Thanks for sharing Shannon! I see you solved the issue with the
keg lid sealing system, by not using vacuum.
Posted by Shannon on December 10, 2012 at 7:33 AM
Correct, Im not pulling a vacuum on the kegs
themselves, but first transferring to a more appropriate
vessel.
What Im most curious about is what your thoughts are
on the machine I linked to in my previous posting.
This one:
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diagnostics/salessheets/EEAC307C-
308C.pdf
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 11, 2012 at 6:50
AM
The important question that I am unable to answer, is
whether the crank case is oil less or not. As it doesnt say
so, and it has an oil separator, I suspect that it may not
be. If it isnt oil less, the butane will eventually wash out
the bearing lubrication and not only contaminate the
meds, but burn out the bearings.
The rest of the specs look good and the -30Hg
capabilities is impressiove. You might contact Snap On
directly and ask whether it is oil less!
GW
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Posted by Paul Thacker on December 7, 2012 at 1:35 AM
While we use 180F to vacuum purge a raw oleoresin, adding heat isnt necessary
when thin film vacuum purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The alcohol
will boil away under 28.5Hg at ambient temperatures, as will the water that is left
behind, even without adding any heat.
can you explain this to me a little furthur? I struggle with purging for some reason,
with both techniques vac and straight low heat Ive been told disolving in alcohol
and evaporating doesnt help the process, and have had that experience myself.
please help me! D:
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 7, 2012 at 6:24 AM
Not sure that I understand the question, but the point of the paragraph in
question, is that alcohol and water both boil at ambient temperatures in thin
films under vacuum.
The reason for dissolving in alcohol, was to winterize a non polar extraction,
which definitely helps purify the essential oil, but it is at the cost of some
terpenes. The price of taking out the plant lipids and waxes.
Posted by Paul Thacker on December 7, 2012 at 6:52 AM
let me ask a different question then i have a bunch of slightly
unpurged oil that i want to refine down to a safer state the purging
process has taken a toll on it and it is hard and taffy like even when
warmed to 130*. what would you suggest me do? Vac is out of the
question because mine doesnt work. I struggle with all of this
biochem stuff, i just want safe medication to consume. Im so
confused because i follow the purging directions word for word
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 8, 2012 at 7:50 AM
Are you going to vaporize it or take it orally?
Posted by paul thacker on December 8, 2012 at 9:01 AM
I was hoping to vape it
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 10, 2012 at 6:29
AM
Safe to vaporize is easy.
For starters, n-butane is non toxic at the levels found in
poorly purged oil, it just tastes bad.
We can taste butane at levels far below levels of toxic
concern, so if you are purged to the level that you cant
taste it, you are more than safe.
As you are planning to vaporize the oil, you have a
couple of easy options available to you.
The first involves placing the oil in a 10 Pyrex pie plate,
on a 130/140F surface, until it purges to the desired
level by taste test. About 4 to 24 hours.
The second involves placing it in a suitable container,
and placing that container in a 250F oil bath and
watching the bubbles.
The first multi sized bubbles to come off will be the
solvent, and the small equally sized fizzy bubbles will be
CO2 from decarboxylation. As you will be vaporizing the
oil, you dont need it decarboxylated, so as soon as only
the small fizzy bubbles are left, remove it from the hot
oil and cool. That takes about 15 minutes.
Posted by Kendall on December 8, 2012 at 2:36 PM
I am having many of the same problems as Paul it seems.
In my case, I would be vaporizing. What would I do?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 10, 2012 at 6:29
AM
How does my answer to Paul work for your case?
Posted by Paul Thacker on January 8, 2013 at 11:41 AM
Now I have the same problem but wanted to cook with it
crockpot style is there anything i need to do to it
before? is the residual butane harmful to me when
ingested this way? Thanks for all your help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 9, 2013 at 9:17 AM
Be sure your Crockpot has sensitive enough controls, as
most dont, and get a quality thermometer. We like the
Cuisinard, and the Rival fondue pots for this purpose,
and use a mercury lab thermometer, a digital, and a
laser pyrometer to measure temperatures.
Residual butane is more of an issue of bad taste at the
levels typically found in underpurged BHO. If you set the
oil pot at $250 and pull it as soon as the random sized
solvent bubbles stop rising, it will also be below sensory
threshold.
Posted by James jackson on November 27, 2012 at 10:45 PM
Wow you are very smart with ur oil extracting.I have been trying different
methods and was wondering without using heat, and letting my extract sit out for a
week or two and let the butane evaporate on its own. Would this work?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 28, 2012 at 4:29 AM
It would work, I dont know what the time line would be.
At a given atmospheric pressure, purging is time at temperature, so less
temperature equals more time.
Once the surface has solidified and skinned over however, it takes a lot more
time. Enough heat to keep the surface plastic or liquid, will speed things
along.
It takes less time if the surface area is large, and the film thickness small, so
that the butane molecule doesnt have as far to travel.
It also takes less time if you blow filtered air against the evaporation
surface, to keep the enriched layer blown away.
It takes less time if you drop the atmospheric pressure, by using vacuum.
We like both low heat and high vacuum, using 115F @ -29.9Hg, for
maximum retained carboxylic acid.
Posted by James jackson on November 29, 2012 at 3:06 AM
Awesome answer! Thank you.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 29, 2012 at 4:43 AM
Youre welcome!
GW
Posted by nate on November 19, 2012 at 11:10 PM
Wow nice oil! I make oil myself for our local co op but I have been on a mission
trying to get my oil clear! Having issues please e mail me I have a question
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 21, 2012 at 6:02 AM
Graywolfs e-addy is: graywolf@skunkpharmresearch.com.
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Posted by Debbie on November 16, 2012 at 4:31 PM
Hi, Ive been using Rick Simpson oil for osteosarcoma in my sinus area. Its been
hard to find lately and ended up with this small square of bho. I was putting a small
drop on a small piece of bread. Can I ingest the bho in the same way?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 19, 2012 at 7:02 AM
Yes, or you can mix it with a little vegetable oil so as to be dropperable.
The oil also ties up the liver for awhile, which keeps it from breaking down
the cannabinoids as rapidly, thus increasing apparent potency. You might
achieve the same thing with bread, by dipping it in olive oil, after folding it
around the grain.
Posted by adamon November 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM
HEy there! quick question about bho color and consistency
i have been making bho for a while now, i have done many different processes for
extraction and purging. from pumps to rapid heat from below to rapid heat from
the top. my question is, How do you get orange chunky wax? i can easily make
pure golden wax that can be handled if your quick about it, but can also be
extremely adhesive if you slowly push into it. i also make a lot of wax that is more
like a hash texture, its soft and somewhat crumbles to the touch. the flavor and
high of each is about the same. only thing i change is the process and those two
types are all i can get to come out. i only use premium trim, no shade leaves, lots
of kief. i use a large stainless steel tube that hold around 100 grams of trim. i crush
the trim but dont grind it down, never put more than 3 cans through one tube,
usually get about 11 grams per tube. what can i do to get the solid orange texture?
thanks for all the help!!!!
(Michigan MMP)
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2012 at 5:10 AM
The oil has to remain in carboxylic acid state to stay hard, smooth and waxy
to the touch at room temperature. We vacuum purge the raw BHOoleoresin
extraction from prime bud at -29.9Hg and 115F to get our best results. We
warm it slightly to remove it from the 6 Petri dish, as it is too brittle
otherwise.
Younger material is lighter colored, and decarboxylated material is not
only darker, but runnier and stickier.
Posted by Dr. Hunchback on November 12, 2012 at 5:53 PM
Hi! Im loving this site. Theres sooo much great information here. But, I have a
couple of questions regarding your thermos BHOextraction method.
First, it appears from the photos that youre using a 12oz. thermos. Is that correct?
Also, do you gently pack the thermos with material the same way as you would a
Flow Through Column? And finally, how many cans of Butane does it take for each
extraction? For the first and second run?!
Thanks again for having such a great site. You guys rock!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2012 at 4:49 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
We use whatever sized thermos that we run across at Goodwill, which we
pack more lightly than a column. Pressed firmly, but not tightly.
I add butane untill I am about an inch above the plant material for all packs.
Posted by MCon November 12, 2012 at 5:07 PM
Hello, thanks for the mother load of info. Question: I remember back in the day
reading about extraction and enhancement techniques, one of which was to soak
the plant material in water for a day, then dry and process, the idea being that you
would leach out most of the water soluables first. Seems like this would help with
the Butane and water soluables issue, yes?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2012 at 4:50 AM
That technique tones down the chlorophyll, but also washes away some of
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the trichomes. We dont use it for that reason,
Posted by taylor on November 9, 2012 at 2:54 PM
what vacuum pump do you use when you do your runs?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 19, 2012 at 7:13 AM
A CPS and a Robinair for evacuation, and an Appion for recovery.
Posted by concentrait on November 1, 2012 at 5:11 PM
Can you please explain what causes the oil/shatter to become budder/earwax? I
can not find a straight answer really on the subject
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 2, 2012 at 5:29 AM
Ive never heard an answer that I embrace either bro! It looks like an
emulsion to me, but not everyone agrees with that assessment.
A good question, which Ill pass on to Joe, our biochemistry braintrust, and
ask him to share his thoughts.
GW
Posted by concentrait on November 2, 2012 at 5:48 AM
Im starting to believe that also because before the alcohol had
completely evaporated I stirred a small section lightly of my
winterized bhoand it buddered. The taste of alcohol never left.
Budder tends to hurt my sensitive throat and tongue more. So the
question becomes is the butane emulsion safe to consume in large
quantities, which is nearly impossible to answer because it will
budder with varying amounts of tane.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 3, 2012 at 6:55 AM
n Butane has a LC50 Inhalation Vapor Rat, of 658000 mg/m3
4 hours. It is a simple asphixiate and not of health concern at
the levels you would find them in oil that looks solid, but hasnt
been fully purged. Its low toxicity is why n-Butane is often
used as a food propellant.
Posted by cxxc@.comon November 8, 2012 at 11:18 PM
look up nucleation
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 9, 2012 at 9:18 AM
Ummm, in what sense?
Posted by jt on October 19, 2012 at 7:46 PM
does winterizing remove any unpurged butane?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 20, 2012 at 5:35 AM
Yes, that is a highly effective way to do so. Ethanol boils at about 17 3F and
n-Butane at about 31.5F.
GW
Posted by concentrait on September 29, 2012 at 5:56 PM
Can you explain the difference between ISOand n-butane and why the latter is
superior?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 30, 2012 at 6:00 AM
ISO, made with the polar alcohol Isopropyl, has more polar elements in it
than the non polar butane.
Not sure I would say that it is superior, but it is easier to extract pristine oils
with non polar butane, because it doesnt pick up as many water solubles or
chlorophyll, and it is easier to purge, due to its low boiling point.
The test panels actually rated QWET and QWISOfrom cured material, more
flavorful than butane extracts from cured material, because it has more
floral undertones. All three were rated effective, to incapacitating,
depending on the tolerance and dosage.
Posted by Shannon on December 15, 2012 at 7:38 AM
I think he meant the difference between iso-butane and n-butane.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM
Clarification???
GW
Posted by Marc on September 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM
When mentioned above, most flavorful from yourself and test panels, Do you mean
literally, immediately frozen when picked? Or cured for 5-7 days then packed in a
Column to freeze? Sorry Im confused.. I just want to get it right before I start a
trial run!
Posted by Marc on September 29, 2012 at 3:54 PM
I just read you recommend a thermos if freezing my material.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 30, 2012 at 5:53 AM
Either a tube or thermos will work, but the thermos is more efficient,
because at low temperatures the extraction rate slows way down and
the thermos allows you to soak the material.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM
Cut up and pack in the thermos or column right off the plant, and place in
the freezer. Make sure the material has no water standing on it, as it will
freeze and cover up the trichomes.
Posted by f rank l jones on July 28, 2013 at 5:37 PM
I recently did try the thermos soak extraction ,
using dried cured frosty bud and I was pleased(smile) now im about
to do the fresh cut frozen using the thermos soak so my question is do
we use the same soak times when using fresh cut frozen flowers? and
is it possible to rerun a 2nd time? Looking forword to hearing about
this
thank yas and hope all is well
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 30, 2013 at 9:08 AM
I would suggest a 30 minute soak, followed by a 1 1/2 hour
soak with the fresh frozen. You can run it as many times as it
takes to get the trichome heads, as long as you keep it frozen
and a 100Xmicroscope will tell you when you are done.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 28, 2012 at 6:51 PM
It means that not everything was volatilized. Periodically you should heat your
nail to glowing red to turn all remaining organic compounds to CO2 and water
vapor, like you do in a self cleaning oven at about 7 00F.
I lightly brush off the light gray ash that forms during use, but never clean my nail,
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skillet, or wand beyond that super heat and self clean.
Posted by to on August 29, 2012 at 3:31 PM
you cant used his info without permission.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 2, 2012 at 7:10 AM
Are you refering to the information that he has placed on public domaine?
Posted by to on August 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM
You guys have used the TAMISIUMinfo and videos! SOsad!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 2, 2012 at 7:12 AM
If David wants the links sending potential customers to his public domaine
site removed, all he has to do is ask. Why have you taken it on yourself to
speak in his capable behalf?
Posted by First time Aussie Grow - Page 199 - Grasscity.comForums on August 8, 2012 at 10:25 PM
[...] [...]
Posted by Just made some oil today... - Page 5 on August 8, 2012 at 7:00 PM
[...] Here is the best write up I've ever seen, thx Gray Wolf
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ Reply With [...]
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 9, 2012 at 7:33 AM
Thanks for your enthusiasm and good thoughts! Hope you find stuff that is
useful!
Peace GW
Posted by justin on August 15, 2012 at 6:03 PM
Where could I get Rick Simpson Oil in Bay Area.My mom has a colun
cancer stage 2 so I would like to buy for her.
Thanks GW
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 16, 2012 at 8:44 AM
Sorry, I dont know where to get oil in the bay area. You might
try posting on a medical forum like
http://www.greenpassion.org/, and ask that question.
GW
Posted by David myrick on October 15, 2012 at 4:27 AM
Thanks for your information.! Was wondering about any
extractions done with any other fruits or flowers to combine
them together to enhance the floral flavors? An it would effect
the Thc ?
Thanks from all @ 3mc delights
Hey Justin, rick just call me an sent me your Simpson oil.link
me an cure Mom!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 15, 2012 at 4:37 AM
No but it is on the project agenda to mix in other terpene
sources, so as to replace monoterpenes and
sesquiterpenes lost during purging. An alternative is to
just purchase and blend in other essential oils, but
extracting them along with the cannabis sounds like a
better idea.
GW
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Posted by Mane on August 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM
Awesome write up! How did you make that stand thing for the glass columns? Id
be really interested in making one, my arms have been getting tired!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 6, 2012 at 5:11 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
The stand is made from a cat litter bucket and the clamp from a 2 X4 and a
couple pieces of 3/8 all thread, with wing nuts. All scientific grade or
better, of course
GW
Posted by cedar on November 27, 2012 at 5:31 PM
i asked my local pet supply for scientific grade kitty litter and they
called me a wing nut! help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 28, 2012 at 4:15 AM
They ostensibly have no sense of humor. A standard grade
kitty litter bucket will work.
Posted by TOOOOOOooooooooo on August 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM
Awesome article! ive allread used your thermos method several times with solid,
consistent yields. One question though and I know you already touched on this but
I still dont fully understand. Do the effects and medicinal qualities carry over when
converting into oil? What im asking is; is there any point in me buying, lets say,
blueberry, when its going to be the same high as oil made from Purple kush, or any
combination of strains for that matter?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 4, 2012 at 6:03 AM
The essential oil from each of the strains tastes and effects differently,
because the mixtures are all slightly different. Like bud, it works best if you
select a strain that works well for you specifically.
Having said that, they all work for my pain, just some better than others.
Trainwreck works best overall for me, but some like C-99 are more uplifting,
and others like Hippy Chick make me want to eat everything in sight.
ES
Posted by TOOOOOOooooooo on August 14, 2012 at 1:07 PM
Hello again and thanks for the incredibly helpful information! Ive
encountered a rather troubling problem I was hoping you would be
able to help me solve. About a week-week and a half after making my
first batch of oil, I went to use some and (for lack of a better way of
describing) it had turned into a mellow yellowish color with the
consitency of paste/dust. I have been storing it in a small plastic bag
in an airtight mason jar. When I first made it I had it on a piece of wax
paper for about a day-2 days. I recall reading somewhere that oil
should not be stored on wax paper, or parchment paper but I cant
remember what the article specified. Is this possibly the problem? As
well after applying heat to the oil/paste/dust, it seemed to return to
its golden honey oil form.
Again thank a ton for all the great info, your research has giving me
boat loads of confidence in my minimal scientific ablity and
experience! If you need anymore info on my process please ask.
PS. Up until now I had not seen any problem with the oil, mind you
that last time I checked on it was 2-3 days ago.
TO
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 15, 2012 at 6:04 AM
The phenomena is called self buddering and is usually strain
specific. It does it all by itself.
It is still good and some folks budder on purpose, to make it
easier to handle.
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Posted by montroller on July 14, 2012 at 7:22 PM
Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the great information. I do have one question
about properly freezing the material prior to extraction. I am using an open ended
tube for reference. You mentioned that it should be frozen in a dry environment to
avoid freezing the buds over and decreasing yield. So I am wondering if a freezer is
suitable for this or if I should use dry ice? Also should I pack the tube and freeze it
all packed or freeze the material and pack after? My plan was to pack the tube
almost full and fill the last part with dry ice, let that sit until the dry ice has frozen
the material inside the tube then pack the remaining portion and run it as quickly
as possible. Any feedback or insight is very helpful.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 16, 2012 at 7:36 AM
Youre welcome!
With our humidity, it works better for us to pack the tube and then freeze it.
It exposes the material to less humidity to form ice.
For running fresh frozen material, consider using a thermos instead of a
tube. It allows you to extend the soak time to compensate for the lower
temperatures.
As far as dry ice, chilling the material slows down the extraction rate and it
is only necessary to chill it enough to keep the water tied up as ice. I
personally have never tried to use dry ice in a tube, so if you do, perhaps
you can report back.
Posted by ommp pay it f orward on June 23, 2012 at 9:50 PM
We appreciate all the updates and fresh photos. Our followers really loved your
plant turnover and dipping fixture.
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/2012/06/16/plant-turnover-and-
dipping-fixture/
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 24, 2012 at 8:14 AM
Thanks bro! Glad it interests more folks, than just the nice lady whom I
whomped it up for!
It is based on the same principles that we used to build large mold turn over
devices in the aerospace investment casting industry. You can rotate
objects weighing tons freely with one hand, if you just pick their neutral
axis.
It also isnt all that big, so it can also easily be built from scraps of lumber, as
was mine. The pinion hanger strips and the upper spreader beam were made
out of scraps of unistrut, the aluminum angle was from short pieces of scrap,
and as I recall, all I had to buy was the long pinion bolts, nuts, and washers,
plus the hanger ropes.
I have my own junk piles in two garages and my basement, but sometimes
also pick up scrap metal at $0.50/lb at Clackamas Steel scrap yard here
locally, so do check your scrap yards before pundling down cash for new
stuff, if you dont have what you need squirreled away.
Also check your local Goodwill and Salvation Army stores for cheap
components before starting any project, and you will be amazed at what you
discover if you look at everything from the standpoint of what can I do with
this, instead of just what it is.
It can also be a fun way to spend some quality time with like minded brain
trusts.
Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort,
ahwoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted by All about BHOExtraction on June 17, 2012 at 9:01 AM
[...] [...]
Posted by B.H.Ois in the House!! - Page 3 on June 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM
[...] nuts BHOExtractionPosted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC. Butane Honey
Oil, or BHO, is the essential oil from the cannabis [...]
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Posted by Small Runs of BHO? - Grasscity.comForums on May 29, 2012 at 10:10 AM
[...] [...]
Posted by ommp pay it f orward on April 2, 2012 at 11:13 AM
Join http://www.ommppayitforward.com for more from the Skunk Pharm
EK
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 3, 2012 at 5:36 AM
An overall good forum for OMMP patients looking for information and
support, without drama.
GW
Posted by bongoognob on March 15, 2012 at 8:10 PM
How many times will you purge your oil in the vacuum with heat? Just the once
youve noticed?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 16, 2012 at 5:26 AM
Five minutes, one time, at -29.9 mm/hg, sitting in near boiling water, using
the Terpenator.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 19, 2012 at 9:36 AM
Once!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 18, 2012 at 6:40 PM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 2, 2013 at 5:43 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts but no experts here, only more advanced students.
Do feel free to take what you can use and discard the rest!
GW
Posted by cooper on October 8, 2013 at 10:58 AM
do u still update the site i had a few questions
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 7:16 PM
What are your questions?
Posted by Organic alchemist on March 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM
Bump !!
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