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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Male Speaker: You’re listening to a podcast of the Dan Yorke Show here on
WPRO 99.7 FM. Listen to the Dan Yorke Show weekdays from
2:00 ‘til 6:00, and enjoy excerpts via the podcast section of the
website here at 630wpro.com.

Male Speaker: This is the show of record on Rhode Island station of record, the
Dan Yorke Show on News Talk 630 WPRO and 99.7 FM.

[00:00:29]

Linc Chafee: There’s a gap here of communication, and the two sides, you can
tell by the body language, there’s not a whole lot of trust between
them. And that’s where that third party’s so critical, someone that
both sides can trust. Don’t forget, both sides said they preferred
the transformational model, and so what I’m saying is if both sides
prefer that, let’s get there. And my experience was that third party
was critical to our success [inaudible].

[00:00:55]

Dan Yorke: And he actually volunteered himself, former Senator Chafee, now
gubernatorial candidate Chafee, Linc Chafee, is in the studio.
Great to have you in. How are you doing?

Linc Chafee: Good, Dan. Good afternoon to all you listeners.

Dan Yorke: Respectfully, what the hell are you doing putting yourself fin the
middle of this whole situation? You’re running for governor, for
crying out loud. Anything you do will be perceived as political.
Would you admit it was one of your biggest mistakes so far?

Linc Chafee: When you played that clip about there’s no communication, a lack
of communication between the two sides, there’s a newspaper
article from a week ago, last Friday, in which the Superintendent
Gallo was saying she offered the high school 74 teachers “100
percent job security”.

[00:01:39]

One paragraph later, teachers’ union president, James Sussam said, “Well, the
issue of job security certainly came, job security certainly came up
during negotiations, Gallo never promised to protect every job.”
And job security is the issue here. That’s what it’s all about. They

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can work out those requirements and the compensation issues, it’s
about job security.

[00:02:00]

And there’s a complete gap of communication. I heard on the way in here, you
were talking about the February 9 letter. I have it here.

Dan Yorke: I have it too.

Linc Chafee: And nowhere that I could see is there anything about job security.
Never in that letter does she talk about 100 percent job security.

Dan Yorke: But here’s the thing.

Linc Chafee: No, Dan, one more thing I’d like to say. Tuesday I was in the
auditorium –

Dan Yorke: You’re going to –

Linc Chafee: – in Central Falls –

Dan Yorke: – you’re going to roll me here. All right, let’s go. I’m ready.

Linc Chafee: – and Superintendent Gallo courageously stood up and read to the
teachers the last offer.

[00:02:33]

When said, “And I offered 100 percent job security,” – and everybody was quiet
up until then – all the teachers says, “No, you didn’t.” So my point
is, the lack of communication. And before this goes down the path
of complete labor strife that’s going to hurt Rhode Island – there’s
no doubt about that – and I’m running for governor to get the state
going in a better direction.

[00:002:57]

And this isn’t going to help when you’re trying to attract business to Rhode
Island. We’ve got this terrible strike going on with sympathy
strikes and work to rule and who knows what could happen. Court
cases with lawyers making millions and millions of dollars. I
mean it’s all the worst-case scenario. Before we get there,
shouldn’t a third party step in –

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Dan Yorke: Well, you know –

Linc Chafee: – and mediate?

Dan Yorke: I’m glad you’re so revved up and researched on this because you
and I are going to have a hearty debate on this. I will tell you that,
first of all, as an aside since you brought up the reputation of
Rhode Island and the viability of Rhode Island and the marketing
of Rhode Island, I have to tell you.

[00:03:28]

By and large, I think most people outside the state think this is one of the best
pieces of news they’ve heard coming out of the State of Rhode
Island, that educators have actually decided that they’re going to
step up – meaning education management – is going to step up
here and demand change in places that are failing. Now you’re
shaking your head. I have to – you know, one thing I admire about
you, Senator, is that you will say things that are completely off the
map, but you’ll say them.

[00:03:57]

Honest to God, you think the rank and file constituents in this state think that
what’s happening at Central Falls is a damaging thing to the State
of Rhode Island, you will lose this race by 40 points. If you say
that over and over again, you’ll never get out of the box.

Linc Chafee: Okay, Dan. I agree with you that probably a great many of Rhode
Islanders are saying, “This could be a good thing.” But look in the
crystal ball, if you will, and don’t you see, down the road, this
deteriorating into a situation that most Rhode Islanders will say is
not good for our state?

[00:04:31]

Dan Yorke: In which way?

Linc Chafee: And I’m talking about –

Dan Yorke: Name a way. In what way?

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Linc Chafee: Work stoppages at other AFT schools, work to rule in other AFT
schools, or sympathy strikes.

Dan Yorke: What, you got some intelligence you want to tell us about?

Linc Chafee: Teachers coming in –

Dan Yorke: Because I know that –

Linc Chafee: Don’t you see that?

Dan Yorke: I know that –

Linc Chafee: Do you think the teachers are going to –

Dan Yorke: Well, I know that you –

Linc Chafee: – do this around the country, around the state, they’re going to take
this, the firing of their brethren?

Dan Yorke: I know that you, I know –

Linc Chafee: I mean I’ve worked with unions long enough to know what’s going
to happen.

Dan Yorke: I know that you’ve married labor in this governor’s race, so maybe
you’ve got some intelligence that I’m not aware of.

[00:004:56]

What deal for AFT other unions to, in their brotherhood/sisterhood support, are
going to go ahead and protest over what is happening in Central
Falls? Is that what you’re insinuating? Is there something you
know that we don’t know? Because I’d like to hear it.

Linc Chafee: Well, I have no deal with the teachers. I want what’s best for
Rhode Island, and the teachers’ unions have never supported my
previous campaigns. In fact, when I went in to meet with the
teachers’ union just last week, the big picture of my opponent from
’06 there, Sheldon Whitehouse.

Dan Yorke: Well, that was then, this is now.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Linc Chafee: But I’m always – I voted along their lines when I was in the
Senate.

[00:05:28]

Dan Yorke: What kind of promise is –

Linc Chafee: They still support my opponent.

Dan Yorke: What kind of –

Linc Chafee: My point is –

Dan Yorke: – mutual promises have been made with the AFL CIO?

Linc Chafee: No promises. Not a single one.

Dan Yorke: Okay.

Linc Chafee: And I don’t expect any quid pro quo on this. I want what’s best for
Rhode Island, and I do, as I said in my press conference, fear the
consequences, and I do have some experience having been
probably in the worst labor dispute as mayor, in Rhode Island’s
history. Right?

Dan Yorke: Giving away the store?

Linc Chafee: No, I settled that in the fall of 1994 with the City Council’s
favorable vote.

[00:05:58]

Then went to the voters of my city and they returned me to office with winning 8
out of 9 wards with 56 percent.

Dan Yorke: But let’s go back –

Linc Chafee: I did not give away the store.

Dan Yorke: Then we’ll talk more about that in – we’ll have an entire political
year to talk about your track record, which has many pluses and
some interesting questions. Let me ask you this. Since you
brought up the February 9 letter that we were talking about last

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week, it gives me another chance to at least discuss with somebody


who is high level to mete out what the language is in this letter.

[00:06:30]

There’s a paragraph in this letter that says, “I need to emphasize the


transformation model. It’s the only model in which it’s possible,”

Linc Chafee: Which paragraph then because I have the letter here.

Dan Yorke: Paragraph 3 on Page 1.

Linc Chafee: Okay.

Dan Yorke: “I need to re-emphasize that the transformation model is the only
model in which it is possible for the majority of teachers and
administrators for the school to retain their jobs.” Now I’m getting
all sorts of email from people, and I’m guess you would probably
agree on this premise, that majority means 51 percent or more.
And so there’s a whole bunch of – so it doesn’t equal to 100
percent. I understand, I understand why that argument would be
made.

[00:007:01]

But the narrative of this letter is not the offer. The offer is in the bullet points,
which identify the turnaround model requirements. What’s
missing from the turnaround model requirements is any mandatory

Linc Chafee: Wait a sec, wait a sec – I think you’re wrong here because you said
turnaround. And I think these bullet points –

Dan Yorke: I’m sorry, I’m sorry, transformation.

Linc Chafee: Thank you.

Dan Yorke: Thank you. No, you’re correct – that identify the transformation
model.

[00:07:26]

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It is without reference to any kind of mandatory terminations. That exemption,


that missing element is what I’m sure the doctor, the
superintendent, is saying is the guarantee. She also told us
yesterday that she fought with her lawyer over this. I am quite
certain that the legal language in the paragraph that precedes the
tenets here that I just pointed out to you in Paragraph 3, directly
relates to the idea that if in fact there are going to be evaluations
made anyway that there could be teachers who, for cause, are let
go.

[00:008:01]

Dan Yorke: That things are –

Linc Chafee: Even under the transformational.

Dan Yorke: Sure.

[Crosstalk]

Linc Chafee: Because that’s why I was surprised to see Superintendent Gallo say
100 percent job security. That’s here quote.

Dan Yorke: No but see, there’s a difference.

Linc Chafee: And I heard it say it in the auditorium.

Dan Yorke: But Senator, you have to understand, God I hope if you’re going to
try to manage this state, that you can distinguish between what is a
systemic guarantee and specific exemptions from such.

[00:08:25]

For instance, if I promise you 100 percent guarantee return as a body, it doesn’t, it
doesn’t – in other words, no systemic proportional cuts to the staff
as part of the protocol, it does not preclude the idea, if there’s some
dead wood individual who does not buy into these six individual
things, that, that, and based on a review for compliance with the
protocol, wouldn’t be let go. It is a complete red herring to, to
suggest and to play in with these teachers, that they don’t have the
kind of job security that they’re looking for with this letter.

[00:09:03]

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Linc Chafee: Well, after all – let me say a couple of things here.

Dan Yorke: Because you know there’s a union, there’s a whole union protocol
that goes along with letting somebody go for evaluation and cause.
So I say, come on.

Linc Chafee: Okay, after all those words, there’s nothing unequivocal about 100
percent job security.

Dan Yorke: You’re not listening, are you? You cannot – 100 percent job
security is a systemic, is a systemic promise, that this
superintendent is now arguing with her own council.

[00:09:31]

Because if she writes 100 percent guarantee, what she’s saying is she, in essence,
there’s 100 percent guarantee. There’s no proportional 80/20
formula. There’s no 90/10 formula. There’s no 95/5 formula.

Linc Chafee: Okay, let me address your point.

Dan Yorke: But I may have to pop a few of you if you don’t comply. That’s
what that’s about.

Linc Chafee: But that happens even under the normal school year.

Dan Yorke: Exactly.

Linc Chafee: So if the superintendent had made that offer, that you have, you all
have your job security under the transformation model –

Dan Yorke: That’s how I read it.

[00:09:59]

Linc Chafee: – except for why didn’t she put that in writing?

Dan Yorke: I think that’s how it reads. That’s how this reads.

Linc Chafee: I don’t see it.

Dan Yorke: Well, you know, it’s like you and I can look at the sky and argue
the color of it. But I mean, I cannot believe that you cannot see

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that. And I cannot believe that somebody as bright as you and as


scholarly as you cannot see that.

Linc Chafee: No, it’s not in the February 9 letter. But let me – the bullet points
are all very, very clear.

[00:10:29]

Dan Yorke: And what do they not include?

Linc Chafee: The most important issue for the union, job security. That’s the
whole issue.

Dan Yorke: There is no –

Linc Chafee: Then why did Superintendent Gallo use that quote in public, but
not in the February 9 letter?

[Crosstalk]

Dan Yorke: Because –

Linc Chafee: 100 percent job security is –

Dan Yorke: – she’s speaking, she’s moving –

Linc Chafee: – something really powerful.

Dan Yorke: Yeah, but Senator, she’s –

Linc Chafee: Whether it’s 99 percent job security.

Dan Yorke: I’d love to have her here to argue her own case, but obviously I
have to do it myself. It is not – she is talking conceptually, off a
model of 50/50 –

[00:11:--]

Linc Chafee: Well, what this all calls out for is a mediator.

Dan Yorke: Who, you? So let’s get back to that part because that’s the fun part
for me. Like who the hell do you think you are trying to put
yourself in this, in the middle of a governor’s race?

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Linc Chafee: Well, the –

Dan Yorke: And I say that, you know, hugging you.

Linc Chafee: The media –

Dan Yorke: It’s like, come on, man.

Linc Chafee: – took that I had offered myself when my press release talked
about a number of different people that could do it, retired
presidents, President Carruthers, President Nazarian or retired
judges. And we had a judge step forward, Judge Fifer, and offer
his services to be the mediator.

[00:11:31]

So that got kind of off the track. I was offering any third party. And I do have a
great deal of experience, probably in the worst way, of dispute in
the State’s history.

Dan Yorke: Because you want to be in it.

Linc Chafee: No.

Dan Yorke: Come on, admit it. You want to be in it. You want to put a star on
your political refrigerator for this race. Come on. At least be
candid about that. That’s why you came up with this.

Linc Chafee: Dan, none of my political advisors agreed that I should step into
this briar patch.

Dan Yorke: Maybe you should listen to them.

Linc Chafee: But the reason I did is because I want to be governor.

[00:12:00]

And I want to get this state going in the right direction, and I don’t need another
labor dispute to inherit like I did in 1994, 1993 when I became
mayor of Warwick.

Dan Yorke: Well, I’ve got to tell you –

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Linc Chafee: And that took a great deal of energy out of our city. We could not
– people couldn’t sell houses back then. It was terrible, and it took
a long time to get that settled. And I don’t want to inherit that
again. As I go out on the road, selling Rhode Island in 2011 –

Dan Yorke: Well, I’ve got to tell you , I’ve got to tell you. You may see
yourself as purely a salesman, as the governor, marketing the State
of Rhode Island, but guess what?

[00:12:29]

That’s a problem-fixing issue that’s going to go on here –

Linc Chafee: If you’ve got unemployment below the third highest in the country.
How are we going to do that?

Dan Yorke: But Senator, with all due respect, if you don’t want to deal with
labor strife, you ought to not run. Because we are heading into a
new world here, where some concepts are clashing.

Linc Chafee: That’s all fine. That’s all fine.

[Crosstalk]

Linc Chafee: But let’s at least deal on a –

Dan Yorke: If you don’t have the thick skin for that –

Linc Chafee: I do. I do.

Dan Yorke: – you ought to reconsider just going over and teaching at Brown
and take it easy, man.

Linc Chafee: I do. I was mayor. I dealt with some of the strongest unions in the
state.

Dan Yorke: So what is this nonsense if you don’t want to deal with that?

Linc Chafee: I don’t like when it’s unfair negotiations.

[00:13:00]

And what I see here is a lack of communication. Back to your original piece that
you ran before we came on the air. There’s a lack of

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communication. There’s no doubt about it. 100 percent job


security versus all the teachers saying, “You never offered that.”
Which is it?

Dan Yorke: No. The communication I’m talking about is intra-union. Intra-
union. Not between the two parties. You have decided because
it’s politically expedient for your labor promises, to make this the
teachers have been miscommunicated. The teachers and the
teacher union are miscommunicating amongst each other.

[00:13:30]

And when I get all of these emails, many of which I’d be happy to show you,
where the teachers are saying, “You know what? We’d like to
weigh in on this concept of job protection which is inherently
explicitly,” – I shouldn’t say explicitly – it is inherently part of this
proposal, with some legal language that provides for, as you will
admit, the off teacher that’s got to get popped because all you’ve
got to do is write 100 percent on something, and that one teacher
who deserves to have their foot up their wazoo out the door, says,
“Oh ho, I got a lawyer. You said 100 percent job guarantee.”

[00:14:01]

You know that. You ran a city. You want to run the state. You know what the
legal issues are there.

Linc Chafee: Why is she saying that then in public?

Dan Yorke: It’s a conceptual formulaic response to what was a 50/50 formula
and an 80/20 formula. Now she’s saying, “Screw the formula. I’m
not firing anybody. I need you guys to acquiesce to this plan.”
That’s what she’s saying.

Linc Chafee: It wasn’t a mistake either because she said it in the paper and that
week-ago article.

Dan Yorke: Oh my God.

[00:14:29]

Linc Chafee: And then she went and said it in public. 100 percent is 100
percent.

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Dan Yorke: Oh my God.

Linc Chafee: Even for any negotiator.

Dan Yorke: You just admitted to me –

Linc Chafee: Even for the Board of Regents.

Dan Yorke: Oh boy.

Linc Chafee: Or for the commissioner. Yes, they must have been shaking their
heads, saying –

Dan Yorke: Senator, respectfully –

Linc Chafee: – “How can you be offering 100 percent job security?”

Dan Yorke: I’m so glad you came because, you know, I’ve never –

Linc Chafee: That’s not my quote. That’s hers.

Dan Yorke: I am so glad you came because I have never had – you know, I’m
so glad you came because this conversation ought to be the
warning signal to everybody listening about what kind of nuance
detail you’ll pay attention to when you don’t want to.

[00:15:05]

Linc Chafee: At least I’m in the mix. Where are my opponents?

Dan Yorke: What does that have to do with the price of [inaudible]?

Linc Chafee: They’re scared. Don’t get involved. This is the most important
issue facing –

[Crosstalk]

Dan Yorke: Maybe your opponents know that they shouldn’t use this –

Linc Chafee: [Inaudible] and there’s one gubernatorial candidate that wants to
step up and try and get the two sides to work together. And I’ll
take all the abuse that you want to deal out on that. But I still think
it’s in Rhode Island’s best interests to get the two sides back to
where they said they want to go, the transformational model.

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[00:15:30]

Male Speaker: 422. The [inaudible] Marketing Real Time Traffic Center.

Dan Yorke: 4:26 here on the Dan Yorke Show. The Senator and I are still
going at it on the Central Falls situation. I’ve got a good idea. I
think that you should, you should mediate the union’s intra.
Because we have a split between union leadership and union rank
and file. Happened with Council 94 that got all their bravado up.

[00:16:00]

They told the governor to pound sand. The union rank and file went nuts, and
Council 94 with its tail between its legs, went back to the governor
saying, “Sorry, can we do this again?” That’s what’s going to
happen here in Central Falls. Why don’t you, instead of mediating
the whole damn deal and trying to put a gubernatorial star on your
refrigerator, why don’t you go to the union and say, “Well, let me
have a mediation between the union leadership and the rank and
file.” That’s where the problem is, Senator.

Linc Chafee: All right. I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but if I go to either the
leadership or the rank and file with 100 percent job security, I
think I’ll get a deal very, very fast.

[00:16:30]

That never was in writing.

Dan Yorke: I’m glad you recognize that you’re beating a dead horse because
you keep harping on a concept that is legally impossible.

Linc Chafee: That’s the crux of it here. That’s the crux of this, the back hole.

Dan Yorke: I’m going to explain something to you one more time. Here at
[inaudible] Broadcasting, say we have 100 employees. We do.
We have about 100 employees. And say you’re the general
manager.

Linc Chafee: 100 percent’s 100 percent. It’s not 99.9.

Dan Yorke: All right. So when you promise –

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Linc Chafee: I didn’t say it.

Dan Yorke: – when you, when you promise 100 percent guaranteed
employment for all the radio employees at the Salty Brine
Broadcast Center, and then you decide you want to pop me –

[00:17:01]

– what’s going to prevent my lawyer from coming to you and say, “You just
guaranteed 100 percent employment.”

Linc Chafee: All right. Well, we can argue over this for a while, the semantics
of 99.9 or 100 percent. I didn’t say 100 percent. That’s my point.
That is not in the – anything close to it in the February 9 letter.

Dan Yorke: There’s a reason –

Linc Chafee: Let’s move on to another subject.

Dan Yorke: No. No. I’m running the show. When you’re governor, you run
the state. I’m running the show. The reason why she said what
she said is a comparative model, a comparative model.

[00:17:30]

When it’s 50/50 out there, she’s talking about dumping the model. And I don’t
know why you won’t acquiesce to that, other than doing the
bidding of the labor folks here, who don’t want to hear it either. I
thought you were the independent objective evaluator of the truth
in this state. You’re not playing that role right here, Senator.

Linc Chafee: Again, I don’t want to keep repeating myself, but I did not say 100
percent job security. That’s Superintendent Gallo.

Dan Yorke: You know, if you want to have a scoreboard on who said what,
you’re right.

Linc Chafee: That’s important. Those words are very, very important in this
whole discussion.

[00:18:02]

Dan Yorke: Oh boy. Okay. You wore me out. What do you want to talk
about?

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Linc Chafee: How to get Rhode Island, Rhode Islanders back to work.

Dan Yorke: Okay. I want to talk about your sympathy vote. Here’s what
Senator Theresa Piva Weid said on the morning show a couple of
days ago, about people who would vote for Linc Chafee.

Male Speaker: What about for governor?

Female Speaker: It’s too early yet to know what’s going to happen. Certainly, you
know, Frank has been a colleague and a friend.

[00:18:30]

A lot of individuals, you know, I think, in my particular community, Linc Chafee


probably has a little bit of an edge up because people feel bad they
didn’t vote for him. They voted for Sheldon. Not anything about
Frank.

Male Speaker: Hmm.

Female Speaker: And I think Patrick [inaudible] in the race now.

Male Speaker: Okay,

Male Speaker: That would be very difficult.

Dan Yorke: Okay, that’s John De Petro with Senator Theresa by the way. The
Senator [inaudible] thinks that you’re going to be the recipient of
a sympathy vote. The short answer, and then we’ll elaborate after
the 4:30 headlines.

[00:18:58]

Linc Chafee: Well, as I travel around the state, people really don’t care about
what happened in the past. That’s the truth as I travel around.
They want to know from the candidates, what are you going to do
to get this state going? And I don’t want a lot of smoke and
mirrors, I want some real ideas, some real plans on how you’re
going to get this state going in a better direction. And the first
order of business, and you talk about sympathy votes and what’s
happened in the past, it’s about getting a budget that’s balanced.

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And that’s no easy matter. No company’s going to come to Rhode Island if we


have chronic budget problems.

[00:19:30]

And then, after this music, we’ll – after your break, we’ll talk more about it.

Dan Yorke: The senator’s got the cue thing going. It’s 4:30. We will come
back.

Male Speaker: If you missed a minute, you’ve missed too much. The Dan Yorke
show continues on News Talk 630, WPRO and 99.7 FM.

Dan Yorke: All right, so Senator Chafee, former Senator Chafee is in the studio
here and he is, of course, running for governor via the independent
road.

[00:20:00]

Gosh knows what this will all look like by the time all the formal paperwork is in
in this race. We just spent a half an hour trying to come to some
understanding about (a) his intent to mediate and/or facilitate
mediation. I have to tell you, Senator, your fundamental
conceptual problem with the number 100 tells me that maybe you
should have suggested that someone else mediate from the
beginning. Because I’m completely confused, and I’m petrified
over the idea that you would be a collective bargaining agent for
the State of Rhode Island with that mindset.

[00:20:33]

I’m just going to chalk it up to political alliances versus your acumen on this.
Let’s talk about –

Linc Chafee: 100 percent’s 100 percent.

Dan Yorke: You know –

Linc Chafee: It’s not 99.9.

Dan Yorke: I’ve got to give you credit. There is kind of a Rain Man thing
about you, where you keep repeating the same thing over and over
again. I don’t know if that’s brilliance or just political stupidity.
I’m not sure which. [Laughs]. Honestly, I have no idea what

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

you’re doing here, repeating 100 percent is 100 percent. I


expected more high-level approach from you.

[00:20:59]

But I’m not going to get it and I’m not going to beat a dead horse as you would
say. So let’s move on and talk about, again, the concept of the
sympathy vote. I guess what Theresa Pipe Weid was saying, in her
own special way, is, “Hey, your family’s got a legacy.” Hey,
people like you. I like you. I hate torturing you like this. I like
you. I don’t know many people who don’t like you, and maybe
that’s what she’s saying, that there are people who like you and
feel bad that you got beat.

[00:21:28]

So there’s your 35 percent in the polls right now. Your reaction to that is –

Linc Chafee: Well, before we go there, I just want to say one thing about the
Central Falls issue, and that is –

Dan Yorke: Oh, you’re kidding. You’re a glutton for punishment, aren’t you?

Linc Chafee: – as a governor –

Dan Yorke: I was moving off. Go ahead.

Linc Chafee: – as a governor – this is an important issue – as a governor, you


don’t get to pick the issues.

Dan Yorke: What do you mean?

Linc Chafee: What happens, what comes along, the different confrontations that
happen when you’re mayor or governor or executive position, you
don’t get to pick those.

[00:21:58]

Linc Chafee: And I find it curious that none of my opponents that are running
for governor, that want to govern the state, have stepped forward
and talked about what’s happening in Central Falls. So at least
give me credit on that.

Dan Yorke: Well, no. Okay.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Linc Chafee: Then we’ll get back to whatever Theresa Pipe Weid said.

Dan Yorke: There’s a difference between reflecting on an issue and butting in.
Your premise –

Linc Chafee: I had a constructive –

Dan Yorke: – your premise was that you wanted to play the role of mediator.

Linc Chafee: I had a constructive point of view.

[00:22:29]

Dan Yorke: Your premise was that you wanted to play the role of mediator.

Linc Chafee: It screams out for a mediator.

Dan Yorke: Your premise was you wanted to play the role of mediator.

Linc Chafee: Well, that got, as I said earlier, it got taken out of context. I do
have the experience, however. I do have the experience. You
might say, “Who else?” Name somebody else in the state that has
the experience I have at dealing with a very, very difficult teacher
dispute.

[00:23:00]

I did it and I settled it.

Dan Yorke: Did what? In Warwick?

Linc Chafee: Yes, that was a bad one.

Dan Yorke: Can I ask you this?

Linc Chafee: We had teachers going to jail in handcuffs.

Dan Yorke: Why did you tell me last segment that people don’t care what
happened in the past, and you keep bringing up what you did in
Warwick? I mean you can’t have it both ways.

Linc Chafee: Well, I’m saying –

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Dan Yorke: I’m confused by you.

Linc Chafee: Well, answer my question. Don’t you find it curious that none of
my opponents have weighed in on this topic?

Dan Yorke: Maybe they want it to, maybe they want it to breathe on its own.
Because the chapter isn’t written.

[00:23:30]

I don’t see where the need for mediation is. See, you seem to think that mediation
is necessary, and you know that historically, in mediation, at least
in this state, mediation falls to the 51 percent favor of labor.
That’s why you want mediation. Three’s a process here that has
been started by Barack Obama. Did you vote for him?

Linc Chafee: Yes, I did.

Dan Yorke: Oh, yeah.

[00:23:58]

Arnie Duncan, his education commissioner, put this protocol in place. The
admitted Democrat, Deborah Gist, education commissioner, put
this protocol in place. I don’t know what the superintendency’s
political affiliation is. But she’s following orders and trying to
navigate. This is a protocol that has been delivered for the local
education agency to work out on its own. The idea that you want
to mediate de facto suggests that it’s a collective bargaining matter.

[00:24:33]

And that’s what the union leadership wants to make it. You’re feeding that beast.
Since you brought it up –

Linc Chafee: Yes.

Dan Yorke: I’m telling you, you’re feeding that beast, which tells me you’ve
played your cards as a pro-labor deal-making candidate.

Linc Chafee: No, you’re wrong on that, Dan. You’re 100 percent wrong on that.
And the point, my point is both sides are saying, “We want to have
the transformational model.” And my experience in Warwick, was
that I couldn’t have settled in 1994 without a third party.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

[00:25:00]

An individual named Kevin McCarthy walked into my office and said, “I’ve got
some ideas on getting this together.” The unions didn’t trust me. I
couldn’t get that deal. But they trusted Kevin, and he worked back
and forth between the sides, and we got a deal. That’s why I’m so
strong on getting a mediator in here. As we get both sides to what
they say they want.

Dan Yorke: I don’t know why, I don’t know why you keep –

Linc Chafee: And before we head into a turnaround model that has labor strife
that could plague this community for years and years and years.

[00:25:28]

It took years to heal from that labor strife in Warwick, and I was just in
Middletown at a school, and the principal said, “We had a strike
here. It took us seven years to heal from that strike.” These have
long-ranging consequences, and that’s why I think it’s so important
somehow to get both sides to where they say they want to go to a
transformational model.

Dan Yorke: Well, since you keep harping on that concept, the reason why
they’re both saying they want the transformational model is
because the union –

Linc Chafee: Let’s get there.

Dan Yorke: – they want a transformational model that pays them more dough,
Senator.

Linc Chafee: Well, I don’t agree with that.

Dan Yorke: What do you mean you don’t agree with that?

[00:25:59]

Linc Chafee: Because –

Dan Yorke: They went on the record with this.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Linc Chafee: – I was listening to your show and I heard the guidance counselor
saying, “We do most of that already without any pay, never mind
30 percent, 40 percent, whatever the - $30.00 an hour.”

Dan Yorke: Right.

Linc Chafee: “We stay after school.”

Dan Yorke: Again, it goes to that –

Linc Chafee: “So we don’t have lunch with the kids, but we do everything else.”

Dan Yorke: It goes – I’m glad you listen to the show on a regular basis. Take
some notes. It might help you in the campaign. Here is the
difference I’m trying to tell you.

[00:26:28]

If there’s mediation, it ought to be intra-union. The union leadership’s asking for


bucks for elements of this plan. He’s saying, “Hey, a lot of us do it
all.” That’s what the teachers are clamoring right now, in, you
know, a covert manner, to say the union leadership may not be
representing, is not representing what we think about this plan. Let
me ask you this. Do you think it was wise for the union leadership
to make these people walk out with candles, to have a candlelight
vigil on the same day that four kids were being vigiled after being
killed in a fire?

[00:27:01]

Do you think that people in Rhode Island are sick to death of the same old
playbook of union leadership? Do you think they want to gag
themselves? And do you think you’re going to win the governor’s
seat by placating to that?

Linc Chafee: And again, don’t say that. I’m not, I’m not taking sides on this. I
just want labor peace. And we said off the air, you’re originally
form New Jersey. I mean you know what it’s like when you get
into a labor dispute, and whether it’s candlelight vigils or on and
on it goes. And I certainly saw it when I was mayor, work to rule,
the teachers would not sign recommendation letters to colleges.

[00:27:32]

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

They wouldn’t go on field trips. It was bad, and I’m just trying to head that off.

Dan Yorke: It’s still bad.

Linc Chafee: Before we get there –

Dan Yorke: [Inaudible] work to rule.

Linc Chafee: – before we go to turnaround, let’s make every, every effort to


avoid it.

Dan Yorke: It was only a year or two ago in your fair city, they were still
wearing buttons in Warwick, you know, making the kids part of a
collective bargaining act. You don’t have to go to Jersey to figure
that out. By the way, Rhode Island is North Jersey, in case you
don’t know. It’s the same damn place. It’s just 150 miles north.
All right, you want to talk about anything else? You keep talking
about this Central Falls thing. You are a glutton for punishment.

Linc Chafee: Well, we’ll go back to what –

Dan Yorke: There’s no doubt about that.

[00:28:00]

I mean, you know, and you know what –

Linc Chafee: No, it’s important. This is a very, very important issue. And the
next governor could inherit something very, very disruptive with
national attention –

Dan Yorke: So what?

Linc Chafee: – on our state.

Dan Yorke: So what? What is this?

Linc Chafee: That’s why I feel so strongly about it because I –

Dan Yorke: What do you want to sing? I want to teach the world to sing? You
want to do a piece, man? You want to do a vigil here yourself?
What’s the matter with strife. Strife is good, conflict is good. You
get resolution.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Linc Chafee: Well, it’s good for talk radio hosts, but it’s not good if you’re a
governor.

Dan Yorke: Oh here we go. It’s always about the talk radio.

Linc Chafee: You love it.

[00:28:30]

Dan Yorke: It’s all about that.

Linc Chafee: If I’m governor, I’m going out trying to get companies to come to
the intermodal district, where they’ve just invested hundreds of
millions of dollars, or coming to Quonset Point, we’ve invested
hundreds of millions of dollars, or we’re trying to bring companies
into the knowledge district in downtown Providence where we’ve
invested hundreds of millions of dollar –

Dan Yorke: I just want to –

Linc Chafee: – and they say, “Forget it. That place is a mess.”

Dan Yorke: Senator, I just want to suggest to you that if you think that this
microphone on this show, that I think that strife is good for its
inherent nature for the radio program, I’ll, I guess I’ve offered you
a couple of mild insults.

[00:29:02]

I’ll accept that one. It’s, I’ll score one for you. But it’s not true.

Linc Chafee: All right.

Dan Yorke: I care about a the quality –

Linc Chafee: Okay, [inaudible].

Dan Yorke: – I care about the quality of life in this town.

Linc Chafee: Good.

Dan Yorke: And as a matter of fact, I see that the quality of life in this
community, Central Falls and beyond, is wholly dependent on
these kinds of matters to be resolved by the parties who are there,

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

without the kind of typical labor, pro-labor mediation that you are
talking about. Let the unions work it out amongst themselves.

[00:29:30]

There’s a bust up going on there, and a dichotomy between union leadership and
union rank and file. We saw with Council 94, did we not? You
watched that process. Did we not? Would you admit that that was
a situation that was intra-union confrontational?

Linc Chafee: I don’t remember all the details, how that came down.

Dan Yorke: How in heaven’s name can you run for governor, not remembering
all the details of the most important –

Linc Chafee: I’m just not sure if what you said is 100 percent accurate.

Dan Yorke: – collective bargaining agreement this state has had?

Linc Chafee: I’m just not sure if what you said is 100 percent accurate.

Dan Yorke: Oh, Senator. You can’t run for governor without having that story
on your fingertips.

[00:30:00]

Linc Chafee: No other candidate has the experience I do at dealing with unions.

Dan Yorke: You can’t recall the most important collective bargaining issue
we’ve had in the last year here?

Linc Chafee: I just can’t recall if what you said is accurate.

Male Speaker: 4:47. The [inaudible] Marketing real time traffic center and the
Burger King Regional –

Dan Yorke: 4:52. We only have a few minutes here with – five minutes or so
with Senator Chafee, who’s requested to go back to Theresa Piva
Weid. Good. Then don’t you fall back to Central Falls because if
you do, it’s your fault. Not mine.

[00:30:30]

Dan Yorke: Sympathy vote. What’s your point?

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Linc Chafee: Yes, my point is that if Theresa Piva Weid is saying there’s some
sympathy because the voters voted out Chafee in ’06 after his
senate career, in which he voted against the $1.5 trillion tax cut,
which he was right on. When he voted against the $1 trillion war,
which he was right on. When he voted against the $800 billion
prescription drug benefit, which now prevents us from having,
getting us – all those things, you add up, there’s our deficit.

[00:31:00]

There’s $3 trillion right there. And that’s why we’re in deficit. That’s why the
economy’s doing terrible. Maybe that’s a good thing to have a
sympathy vote. He was right. He was right. If we hadn’t done
any of those things, we wouldn’t have this terrible economy.

Dan Yorke: Because whatever works, right? Moving forward in this race – by
the way, you’re absolutely, positively [inaudible].

Linc Chafee: There’s $1 trillion right there.

Dan Yorke: Are you absolutely, positively in this race?

Linc Chafee: Absolutely, positively.

Dan Yorke: How much dough are you –

Linc Chafee: I want to get this state going.

Dan Yorke: How much dough are you putting in this race?

[00:31:29]

Linc Chafee: Whatever it takes. But we’ve got a finance committee meeting this
afternoon. We’ve got a good –

Dan Yorke: Whatever it takes?

Linc Chafee: – finance committee to be competitive. I’ll be competitive.

Dan Yorke: Well, I know you’ve got it. But you used to say, “I’m not so sure I
want to put it in.” Now’s it’s, whatever it takes?

Linc Chafee: We’ll be competitive, Dan.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Dan Yorke: You having trouble raising money out there?

Linc Chafee: Yes.

Dan Yorke: Why?

Linc Chafee: It’s a difficult economy and obviously, and there’s a lack of focus
so far. My opponents have done a much better job of raising
money, but that’s not everything.

[00:32:00]

It’s who has the direction and the vision for the state. And I haven’t heard it from
the others.

Dan Yorke: What are you going to do to turn the fundraising application of this
race around?

Linc Chafee: As I said this afternoon, we had a great finance committee


meeting, and some really, really talented people, and they want to
help. And that’s fantastic news for the campaign.

Dan Yorke: Let me pick an issue out of the clear blue sky. Do you believe that
public employees in this state have got to move to a defined benefit
plan versus defined contribution?

Linc Chafee: There’s all sorts of complications in that. The upfront cost.

[00:32:30]

The upfront cost of implementing that. And that that’s really, that’s the hurdle
that impossible.

Dan Yorke: Actually, I asked it wrong, by the way. You know, we have
defined benefit. I’m asking about whether we ought to move to
defined contribution. That was my bad. You’re saying it’s too
complicated?

Linc Chafee: Up front, the up front cost is the impediment.

Dan Yorke: Well, tell me about the concept. Do you think that we can
continue to promise benefits while we don’t have pensions that are
whole, and the liabilities grow and grow and grow and grow?

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

[00:32:59]

Linc Chafee: When I became mayor, I inherited a huge, unfunded liability in our
pension system. And what I did is addressed the disability.
There’s a high number of people going out on disabilities. We got
a commission together. We looked and made it much harder. You
had to go to three doctors. We cut down on the high number of
employees going out on disabilities. The actuaries then looked at it
and changed their assumptions, and we made that pension fund
solvent. So I have experience. I don’t think any of the other
candidates have that kind of experience coming in and taking a
very complicated, difficult question and making it better.

[00:33:32]

On the pension issue on the State, I will say that the governor, Governor Kacheri
and the Legislature, as recently as 2005, have made changes to
make it more affordable. And so what goes forward, it’s only
since ’05, the new employees are only going to be the five years of
them, if you follow me.

Dan Yorke: Well, look. You’re going to be welcome here as much as you want
between now and the campaign, general election, I guess.

[00:33:59]

But I’ve got to ask you this one question because it’s just been bugging me not to
ask you. Do you really want to do this?

Linc Chafee: Absolutely. It’s a great state. I drive around this state, and even in
February, it’s a great state.

Dan Yorke: I think it’s a great state, but I don’t want to run for governor.
There’s thousands of listeners right now going, “It’s a great state.”
But they don’t want to run for governor. Do you really want to do
this?

Linc Chafee: Yes because I have the experience. I keep going back to being
mayor, but it’s really critical. I dealt with the unions. I dealt with
the city council. I have that experience.

Dan Yorke: So what?

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

Linc Chafee: Now, that’s important.

Dan Yorke: Why do you want to be governor? Why do you want to be


governor?

[00:34:30]

Linc Chafee: You know, the old, the obvious answer, it’s about our children and
making it better. So they have a place to work.

Dan Yorke: You sure you’re just not bored?

Linc Chafee: Absolutely not. No. There’s huge challenges ahead, enormous
challenges ahead, and I want to be part of the answers to those
challenges.

Dan Yorke: You also want to be a mediator. Tell me about that expertise on
body language, by the way.

Linc Chafee: It was what a teacher actually told me. He said, “Did you see
Channel 12 newsmakers? The two sides? The body language.
They weren’t even – there was absolutely no communication.”

[00:35:00]

I think it was Jim Parise and Superintendent Gallo.

Dan Yorke: Listen, come back soon.

Linc Chafee: There was nothing going on between them. We’ve got to fix that.

Dan Yorke: Thanks for coming.

Linc Chafee: You’re welcome.

Dan Yorke: Senator Chafee.

Linc Chafee: Have a good weekend.

Dan Yorke: Be right back.

Male Speaker: Thanks for listening to the podcast here from the Dan Yorke
Show, weekdays, 2:00 ‘til 6:00 on News Talk 630, WPRO at 99.7
FM.

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Dan Yorke, Linc Chafee, Male Speaker, Female Speaker

[End of Audio]

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