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SprinklersinAtrium(NFPA)

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Hi,Everyone
Howyousugesttoprotect(ornotprotect)Atriumverticalflooropeningsthatconnect6floorsis
about30mfromflortoglassroof.I'vesomeopinionthatsprinklersaren'tnecessaryatthoseatrium
rooflevel.
WhereinNFPA13(chapter)canfindrequirementsforthatsituation?
21decembrie2012

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Vizualizaicomentariileprecedente
JamesWaite
FoundthepassagesIwaslookingforat101:12.3.5.3.(3)(a)&(b).
Theapplicationmightbeupfordiscussion....

25decembrie2012

PaulLemke
Thefunwithtakingtheexceptiontonotinstallsprinklersovertheperformanceandseating
areasofastatiaorarenaisthatmeansthebuildingisnotprotectedthroughoutbyanAWS
therefore,onecannothaveanyotheratriaelsewereinthebuildingper8.6.7. 26decembrie2012
JamesWaite
Paul,I'veheardthatstatementbeforeandfindittobelogicallyinconsistent.Whenthecode
offersanexception,compliancewiththeexceptionisfullcompliancewiththecode.Inthiscase
thecodehasacknowledgedthattheinstallationofsprinklersispointless,duetotheir
ineffectivenesswheninstalledatheightsabove50feet.
So,eveninstallationofthesprinklersattheseheights,doesnotproviderequiredcoverage.and
inthestrictsensedoesnotprovidedabuildingsprinkledthroughout,asyousuggest.
Regardless,itdoesprovidecompliancewiththeintentofthecode,andisconsideredasifit
weresprinkledthroughout,duetothecompliancewiththeprovidedexception.
Therecognitionbythecodeofthisconditions,allowstheomissionoftheunnecessarycost,
labor,andprovidesbywayofequivalentcoverageandfullcompliancewiththecode,by
compliancewiththeofferedexceptions.
Additionally,multipleatriaorotherverticalopeningswouldbeallowed,aslongastheyare
properlyseparatedandprotectedindividually,withinthebuilding.
26decembrie2012
JimLathrop
Notonlyisitinconsistentitisillogical.Forexample,NFPA13providesexceptionsfor
numerousareasofabuildingtobeexemptfromsprinklercoverage,doesthatmeanthatthe
buildingisnotfullysprinklered?Ofcourseitdoesntmeanthat.Ifthecode(regardlessofIBC,
IFC,NFPA101,NFPA1,etc.)exemptsaspecificareafromhavingsprinklers,itdoesnot
meanthatthebuildingisnotsprinkleredforthepurposesofthatcode.Itremindsmeofan
enforcermanyyearsagothatprohibitedsprinklersinhospitalORsandthensaidthatthe
buildingwasnotfullysprinkleredandcouldnotusethesprinklerexceptions.NFPA101actually
hasaprovisioninChapters18&19tocounterthatbecauseofthisoneofficial.Amazinghow
oftenthatcodesandstandardsarerevisedtocompensateforimproperenforcement.
26decembrie2012
PaulLemke
1.NFPA10112.3.5doesnotstateanywerethatanassemblyoccupancyshallbeconsidered
"protectedthroughout"whenthe12.3.5.3exceptionittakentherefore,asaverylargeportion
ofthebuildingisnotprotectedbyanAWSthebuildingisnotprotectedthroughout.Since8.6.7
requiresthatabuildingmustbeprotectedthroughoutbyanAWStohaveatria,therecannotbe
anyatriainthebuildingotherthantheperformanceandseatingareas.FromwhatIunderstand

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thisisallaboutrisk.Ifyouareexposingtheoccupantstohazardswithoutmitigation(i.e.,the
AWS)intheperformanceandseatingareas,theriskofexposingtheoccupantstothehazard
associatedwithanatriumfire(smokealongtheegresspaths,etc.)isunacceptable.
Alsonotethatper10112.3.5omittinganAWSfromtheperformanceandseatingareasofan
assemblyoccupancyisonlyacceptableifthe"...useisrestrictedtolowfirehazarduses."101
6.2.2defineslowhazardoccupanciesasthosewithcontentswith"...suchlowcombustibility
thatnoselfpropagatingfirethereincanoccur."Ergo,iftheownerwishestoeverhaveseats
thatcontaincombustiblematerials(cloth,foam,plastic)paperorclothsignsorbannersstage
setsthatcontainwood,paper,oruntreatedfabricsconfettiorpyrotechnicsthentheymust
haveanAWSovertheperformanceandseatingareaseveniftheceilingisgreaterthan50feet
up.
26decembrie2012
PaulLemke
JimL.TechnicallywhenyouusetheNFPA13exceptionsthebuildingis_not_protected
throughout.Itmaybe"fullysprinklered"asitcomplieswiththeAWSInstallationStandard
(NFPA13)butthatdoesnotmeanthebuildingis"protectedthroughout".NFPA101usesthe
term"protectedthroughout"butdoesnotdefinethetermtherefore,wemustconsultother
documents(thatis,dictionaries)forthecommondefinition.The2009AmericanHeritage
DictionarydefinesthroughoutasInorthroughallpartseverywhere.Therefore,bydefinition,
tobeprotectedbyanAWSthroughout,_every_partofabuildingmustbeprotectedbythe
AWS.TherealityisthatmostAHJsacceptthatthebuildingisprotectedthroughoutwhen
NFPA13isfollowed(includingnotinstallingsprinklersintheexceptedspaces)butunlessthe
AHJputsthatinterpretationinwritingtheFPEORisinthecrosshairsfornotincluding
sprinklersinallspaces.However,asNFPA13isaninstallationstandardandnotadesign
standard,howitdefineswhatconstitutesanacceptableLevelofProtectionisirrelevantto
parsingoutwhatNFPA101specifiesastheminimumExtinguishingRequirementsandwhatare
spacesarepermittedinabuilding.
NFPA1018.6.7specificallystatesthatunlessabuildingisprotectedthroughout(thatis,
protectedeverywhere)byanAWSitcannotcontainanyatria.IFastadiaandarenas
performanceandseatingareas_donot_meetNFPA101'sdefinitionofanatrium(theydonot
connectmorethanonelegalfloor,etc.)ANDiftheownerelectstonotsprinkletheperformance
andseatingareas,THENNFPA1018.6.7statestherecannotbeanyatriuminthebuilding.
(Theperformanceandseatingareasarenotimpactedastheyarenotanatrium.)IFthe
performanceandseatingareas_do_NFPA101sdefinitionofanatriumTHENitmustbe
protectedbyanAWSper8.6.7despitetheexceptionin12.3.5.3(3)ANDotheratriaare
permitted(providedtheymeetthefireprotectionrequirementsof8.6.7).
26decembrie2012
ShaikhRafiq
AsperNFPA13Chapter8.14.4.4LargeOpenings.Closelyspacedsprinklersanddraft
stopsarenotrequiredaroundlargeopeningssuchasthose
foundinshoppingmalls,atriumbuildings,andsimilarstructures
wherealladjoininglevelsandspacesareprotectedby
automaticsprinklersinaccordancewiththisstandardand
wheretheopeningshaveallvertical&horizontaldimensionsbetween
oppositeedgesof20ft(6m)orgreaterandanareaof1000ft'
(93m')orgreater.
27decembrie2012
EstherJacobson
Theuseoffastopticaldetectors(thatdetectthefirewhileit'ssmallpreferablyatit'signition
point)coupledwithautomaticsprinklersandsmokedetectioninsuchlargeareas,maybethe
bestsolution.Thealarmissuedbythefastresponseopticaldetectorscanalertthefirst
respondersandfirebrigadeintimetoaddressareasthatarenotcoveredbysprinklers.
27decembrie2012
JesseDenton
Youwillneedtoconsiderthecombustibleloadingintheatriumalso.Youcangenerallyhaveall
thefoliage,concrete,steel,etc.,youwantinanareabutyouwillneedtobecarefulwith
upholsteredfurniture,woodfurniture,carpet,etc.IdonotrememberthenumberofBTU'sper
sq.ft.offthetopofmyheadanddonothaveacopyofthecodesreadilyavailable.
27decembrie2012
RonFletcherSET
Paul,
LetmestartbystatingthatIhaveonlyreferencedNFPA101afewtimesasitisnota
requirementinmostjurisdictionsweworkinsopleaseforgivemyignorance.Ihavebeentold
thattheNFPAstandardsareorganizedsothatageneralrule,inthiscase8.6.7issuperseded
byaspecificexceptioni.e.12.3.5.3(3)?
Justasanobservation,itwouldseemthatyourinterpretationwouldrequireevenretractable
roofstadiums(wehavetwoinPhoenix)tobefullysprinkleredattheroofbecauseoftheirother
usessuchasRVshowsorboatshows.Thisisjustanobservation,likeIsaidIamnotfamiliar
withtheintricaciesofNFPA101.
27decembrie2012

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PaulLemke
RonF.Youarecorrectthatwhetherornotaparticular_typeofoccupancy_needsafire
suppressionorfirealarmsystemiscalledoutintheoccupancychapters(Chapters1242).
(BTW,allreferencesaretoNFPA101,2003editionasthatiswhatIhaveonmydesktoday.)
Whenoneoftheoccupancychaptersrequiresafiresuppressionorfirealarmsystemone
jumpsbacktoChapter9.7and9.6respectivelyforthedesignelementrequirements.Sub
sections9.6and9.7arewritteninscopelimitedlanguage,forexample,9.7.1.1states,Each
automaticsprinklersystemrequiredbyanothersectionofthisCodeshallThislanguageis
whatkeepsusfromhavingtoputanAWSineverytypeofoccupancywhilemaintaining
commonrequirementsforallrequiredAWSs.Butkeepinmind,typesofoccupanciesarenot
theonlydriverforapplicationofrequirementsintheLSCbuildingfeatures,suchasanatrium,
mightdriveouthavingtopartiallyorfullysprinkleabuildingthatnormallywouldnothavean
AWS.
ThebuildingfireprotectionfeaturesrequirementsarespecifiedinChapter8.Unfortunately,the
provisionsofChapter8FeaturesofFireProtectionareabitmoreconfusingthanthe
requirementsoftheoccupancychapters.2003NFPA1018.1.1specifiesthatallrequirements
ofChapter8areapplicabletoallnewandexistingbuildingshowever,thisumbrellastatement
ismodifiedinthechapterssubsections.Someofthesubsectionsarecompletelydependent
upontheoccupancychapterstodetermineifthesubsectionisapplicableinitsentirety(for
example,8.2ConstructionandCompartmentation,8.4SmokePartitions,and8.5Smoke
Barriers).SomesubsectionsaredependentuponotherChapter8subsectionstobeinvoked
(forexample,8.1.2AutomaticSprinklerSystems).Othersubsectionsincluderequirementsfor
alloccupanciesbuttheselectionofthespecificsofthefireprotectionfeatureareinthe
occupancychapters(forexample,8.3specifiescharacteristicsofallFireBarriersbutthe
meansfordeterminingtheappropriatefirebarrierratingsareintheoccupancychapters).
Finally,somesubsectionsareapplicabletoallbuildingsregardlessoftheoccupancytype(for
example,8.6VerticalOpenings).ThenuancewithAtriumsisthattherequirementsofsub
section8.6.7areapplicabletoallbuildingsregardlessofoccupancytypeand8.6.7(4)only
allowsabuildingtohaveanatriuminitifthebuildingisprotectedthroughoutbyanAWS
designedinaccordancewith9.7.
Also,lestweforget,Chapter11addressesSpecialStructuresandHighRiseBuildings.While
therequirementsforpiers,undergroundbuildings,membranestructures,etceteraareapplicable
regardlessofthetypeofoccupancy,subsection11.8HighRiseBuildingsisonlyapplicableif
invokedbyoneoftheoccupancychapters.IfabuildingmeetstheNFPA101definitionofa
highrisebuilding(>75feetinheightfromlowestfirevehicleaccesstothefloorofthehighest
occupiablestory)andanoccupancychapterrefersbackto11.8thenanAWSandClassI
standpipeisrequired.Thisisregardlessofwhetherornotthetypeofoccupancynormally
requiresanAWSorstandpipe.Forexample,NewBusinessOccupanciesnormallyonlyrequire
fireextinguishersandnotanAWShowever,38.3.2specifiesthathighriseNewBusiness
Occupanciesshallcomplywith11.8whichmeanstheyneedanAWSandaClassI
standpipe.
(continued)
27decembrie2012
PaulLemke
(continued)
Sotogettoyourspecificquestion,perNFPA101,yes,astadiumwitharetractableroofwould
requiresprinklersontheretractableroofsectionsIFtheperformancearea(theplayingfield)
qualifiesasanatrium(amultideckstadiumprobablydoesunlesstheupperdecksqualifyas
legalmezzanines)ORIFthebuildingincludesanatriumelsewhereinthestructure(theramps
totheupperdecksprobablyformanatrium)ORIFthebuildingheighttothefloorofthetop
levelplustheheightfromthebuildingbasetothelowestlevelofthefirefightingvehicleaccess
isgreaterthan75feetORIFthestructureisaMixedOccupancythatincludesatypeof
occupancythatrequiresanAWS(forexample,theaggregateofthemercantilespaces(gift
shops)exceed12,000squarefeet).Thatbeingsaid,duetothetechnicalissuesassociatedwith
sprinklingaretractableroofifIwastheFPEORIwouldworkwiththeAHJtopreparean
acceptableperformancebaseddesignratherthanaprescriptivedesign.IwouldalsodothisifI
hadtodealwiththepotentialconcealedcombustiblespaceissuesassociatedwitha
retractablefieldlikeattheUniversityofPhoenixstadium.
27decembrie2012
JamesWaite
AnybasiceducationintheapplicationofNFPA101(aCODE,notaSTANDARD,suchas13,
72,etc)teachesthattheOccupancyChapters(1243)determinethebasicrequirementsby
referencingormodifyingbyadditionorexception,therequirementsofthebasechapters(111),
andthatsinceitisaCODE,overrulesanyrequirementofaSTANDARDitreferences,alsoby
addingorexceptingspecificrequirementsofthatstandard.
Theapplicationof101:12.3.5says,atitsbaselevelyoumustsprinklerandsupervisethe
buildingthroughout,EXCEPTyoumayomitsprinklersatceilingsover50'abovefloorsand
seatingareaunderspecificconditions.
Itisplainthattheintentofthecodeistoallowtheexceptionswithoutchangingthestatusof
thebuildingas'sprinkleredthroughout',forthelimitedconditionsspecified.Otherwiseuseofthe
exceptionwouldcreatenoncompliance.Nospecificstatementtothatresultisnotnecessary.
Asfaras'MIXED'occupancies,asInotedabove,iftheyareSEPARATEDappropriately,they

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donotaffecttheassemblyspacewheresprinklersareallowedtobeomitted.
Detailsforotheroccupancies,mayhaveotherconditionsthatneedtobeconsideredinanother
discussion,butthrowinginconflictingconditions,thatdonotapplytothequestionathand,is
createsobfuscation,andunnecessarycomplexitytoastraightforwardquestion.Inthiscase,if
thebuildingisnotahighrise,whyaddthehighriserequirements,oranyother,tothemix?
28decembrie2012
SuneebRiazBSc(ME),CFPS(NFPA)
Imightbedivertingfromthesubjectbutasweusetheterm"buildingfullyprotected/sprinklered
throughoutbysupervisedautomaticsprinklersystem.Doesitmandateustoprovidesprinklerto
theareaswhicharealreadyprotectedbyothersecondarysystemsasgassuppressionor
others?
29decembrie2012
RakeshBhat
Helloall,interestingdiscussion.Howaboutusingdrenchernozzlesatceilingheightsgreater
than15meterssincefusiblebulbsprinklersmaynotbeeffectiveatthatheight?
Regards,

30decembrie2012

JohnVergara
ThisisasimilarquestiontooneIposedsometimeagoaresprinklerseffectiveinareaswith
highceilingsie20m.
ItismyunderstandingthatCodes,inmostcountries,dealwiththisissuebyrequiringsprinklers
tobefastresponse,higherdensity,higherpressure,closerspacingetc.
1ianuarie2013
AndrzejZalewski
YesinmiddleeuropaPoland,GermanyImeetrequirementfastresponseandhigherdensitybut
additionalyseparationbysprinklerslocatedaroundtheopeningsspacedmax2m.
Butatriumspronklerprotectionmeansprotectionofflorwithshopsexampleorspacebelow
elewatorsorstaircasestheyhavepossibilitytousesprinklersfixedtoconstruction.
Collectingideasdiscusiontoprotectatriumpropose
1.Nosprinklessonthetopofatriumifitsgratherthan15m
1.Sprinklersaroundtheopeningsspacedmax2m(2ft)oneachflor
1.Horizontalnozzelsaroundfirstflorsopeningactuatedbylinearopticaldetectors
4Protectionbelowwlevators,starcases,andobstructionslocatedatthelowestlevel.
2ianuarie2013
WilliamKoffel
Andrzej,Iwouldhavetodisagreewithyourfirsttwopoints.Regardingthefirst,thereisnoset
heightatwhichsprinklersshouldbepermittedtobeomitted.Asstatedabove,youwillnotfind
amaximumheightoftheroofstatedinNFPA13andwhileitwaspreviouslyincludedinNFPA
101,ithassubsequentlybedeletedforlackoftechnicalsubstantiation.Arethereinstancesin
whichsprinklersatsomeheightmaynolongerbeeffective?Yes,butitdependsonthe
situationandthereforethesprinklersshouldonlybeomitteduponcompletionofanengineering
analysisinaccordancewiththeequivalencyoralternativemethodprovisionscontainedinmost
codesandstandards.Asstatedabove,theanalysismayalsoindicatetheneedforsome
alternativeprotectionscheme(watercannonsashasbeenusedforsomelarge,enclosed
stadia).
Regardingyoursecondpoint,NFPA13specificallystatesthatsuchcloselyspacedsprinklers
arenotrequiredforlargevolumespacessuchasatria.Whererequired,theprovisionforclosely
spacedsprinklersisbaseduponamethodoftryingtopreventverticalsmokemigrationin
smallerverticalopeningssuchasescalatoropenings.Withthesmokemanagementsystem
providedinmostatria,mostlikelyyouwantthesmoketoflowintotheatria.Yes,suchclosely
spacedsprinklers,ifactuated,mighthelpcontainsmokewithinthevolumeoftheatriumifthe
fireisintheatriumbutthesmokemanagementsystemshouldalreadybedesignedtokeepthe
smokefromspreadingtoadjacentareasopentotheatrium.
WhileIamnotnecessarilyafanofyourthirdpoint,Iwon'tsaythatitmightbetechnically
wrong.However,itmaynotbeadesirableprotectionstrategyfromtheowner'sperspective.
Withrespecttoyourfourthpoint,Iwouldconcurtotheextentthatsuchsprinklersarerequired
byNFPA13.
2ianuarie2013
TravisAllen,P.E.
AsmanyofuswillbeapplyingtheIBCprovisions,itishelpfultonotethattheICCclarified
"equippedthroughout"inareferencedsection506.3(areaincreaseduetosprinklersystem)in
twoways:
1.thecodelanguageof506.3includes"inaccordancewithSection903.3.1.1"whichisthe
sprinklerscopinglanguageoftheCode,and
2.commentarywhichadds"Thissectionpermitsanincreaseoftheallowablebuildingareas
establishedinTable503foreachtypeofconstructionifthebuildinginquestionisequipped

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throughoutwithanautomaticsprinklersystem...Thescopeofthephraseprotectedthroughout
withanautomaticsprinklersystemmeansthattheentirestructureistobeprovidedwith
sprinklerprotectiondesignedandinstalledinaccordancewithNFPA13,asstipulatedinSection
903.3.1.1.Itisintendedthatonlybuildingsprotectedthroughouttheentirestructurewitha
systemdesignedinaccordancewithNFPA13beeligibleforthesprinklerincreasepermittedby
thissection,exceptasspecificallymodifiedbytheexceptionsinSection903.3.1.1.1.Those
exceptionspermittheomissionofsprinklersincertainlocationswithinbuildingsbecauseof
conditionsthatexistinthoselocations.Evenifanexceptionisutilizedinthesprinklerdesign,
thebuildingisstilleligiblefortheareaincreasebecausetheexemptedlocationseitherhavea
negligibleimpactonthefireloadofthebuildingoritislikelythatotherrequirementswillabate
thehazardassociatedwiththeserooms."
ThishelpstoclarifyhowtheIBCistobeappliedwithreguardsto"equippedthroughout".
2ianuarie2013
PatrickBradshaw
Saneeb.Youmentionothesecondaryprotection...secondarytowhatifsprinklersarenot
provided?
Toansweryourquestion,iftheroom/spaceisrequiredtobeprovidedwithsprinklerprotection,
thensprinklersarerequiredevenifacleanagentorothersuppressionsystemispresent.This
isnottosaythattheAHJcannotviewitasanalternativebutthatdecisionshouldnotbemade
lightly.TheInternationalFireCodeaddressestheuseofAlternativeAutomaticFire
ExtinguishingSystemsinsection904.
*Whererequired.Automaticfreextinguishingsystemsinstalledasanalternativetothe
requiredautomaticsprinklersystemsofSection903shallbeapprovedbythefirecodeofficial.
Automaticfireextinguishingsystemsshallnotbeconsideredalternativesforthepurposesof
exceptionsorreductionsallowedbyotherrequirementsofthiscode.
Asyoucanseeinthissection,ifyouallowthealternativesuppressionsystem,thennoother
allowancesarepermittedtobetaken.Itcanthusbeinfered(myopinion)thatthebuildingisno
longerconsideredfullysprinklered.Mostdesignersintendtotakefulladvantageofall
alowancesforfullysprinkleringabuildingwhenitisdesigned.
Duetothelackofmaintenanceofnotonlythealternativesuppressionsystemsbutalsothe
room/space,Iwouldbeveryreluctanttoallowanalternativesuppressionsystemtoreplacea
requiredsprinklersysteminacertainroom/space.Addtitionally,mostalternativesuppression
systemshaveafiniteamountofextinguishingagentunlikethesprinklersystem.
Mythoughts....

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