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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON JAMES P . CHASSE, JR. ; JAMES P.

) CHASSE; LINDA GERBER; and MARK ) CHASSE, individually and in his ) capacity as Personal Representative ) of the ESTATE OF JAMES P. CHASSE, ) JR., ) Plaintiffs, ) V. )NO. CV-07-0189-HU CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; ) CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND ) JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS; ) PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER ) PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE ) OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH ) COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and ) JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL) PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and) JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER ) OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN ) TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE NORTHWEST, INC., Defendants.
)
)

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)

DEPOSITION OF MARK J. GINSBERG Taken in behalf of Defendants

July 31, 2008 1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900 Portland, Oregon Shannon K. Krska, CSR
~~~

court-Reporter
4 0 0 Columbia, Suite 1 4 0 Vancouver, W 9 8 6 6 0 A 13601 695-5554 Fox (3601 695-17 3 7

Schrmtt&Lehmann,I ~ c .
C O U R T R E P O R T E R 5
w.slreporting.com

121 SW Morrison st., Suite 850
Portland, O 9 7 2 0 4 R 15031 223-4040 ~, slinc@qwestoffice.nei

.

~

~

Mark J. Ginsberg, 7/31/2008

Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
2

APPEARANCES : For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSON Attorney at Law 815 S.W. Second, Suite 500 Portland, OR 97204 MESSRS. JAMES RICE and DAVID A. LANDRUM Attorneys at Law 1221 S.W. Fourth, Suite 430 Portland, OR 97204 MS. SUSAN DUNAWAY Attorney at Law 501 S.E. Hawthorne, Suite 502 Portland, OR 97214 MS. JEAN BACK Attorney at Law 1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900 Portland, OR 97204 Steven Kraemer INDEX EXAMINATION BY: Mr. Rice PAGE NO.
3 -

For the Defendants Humphreys, Nice, and City of Portland:

For the Defendants Burton and Multnomah County: For the Defendant AMR:

Also Present:

23

Ms. Dunaway
Ms. Back

23 - 29 29 - 30

EXHIBITS No. 306 Diagram

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PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JULY 3 1 , 2 0 0 8
8 : 3 2 AM

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*

*

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MARK J. GINSBERG called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants, having first been sworn by the Reporter, testifies as follows: EXAMINATION

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BY MR. RICE:
Q.

10 I1 12 13 14
15
16

Good morning, Mr. Ginsberg. Hi, Mr. Rice.

I'm Jim Rice.

A.
Q.

Nice to meet you. We're here to take your

deposition today. Have you ever actually been deposed be£ore?

A.
Q.

I have never been deposed.
Have you ever given depositions or taken

17 18

depositions of other parties? A.
Q.

I've taken depositions, yes. And you're an attorney; is that right? That's correct. How long have you been an attorney? Since 1995 Do you generally practice in the civil

A.
Q.
22
23

A.
Q.

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field?
A.

Yes, I do
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Q.

And what kind of civil work do you do? Vast majority of my work is plaintiff's side

A.

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civil litigation, personal injury.
Q.

4 5
6
7

Personal injury work. All right.

Is there any reason, either

medically or on medication, lack of sleep, anything like that, that this is not a good day to take your deposition?
A.

8 9

No, sir.

Today is fine.

10 11 12 13 14 15
16

Q.

And you understand you need to answer out

loud to assist our court reporter in taking down the answers?
A.

Yes, sir. I'm going to skip over the normal

Q.

introductory stuff. You know what I'm talking about; right?
A.
Q.

17 18 19 20
21

Yes, I do.

Thank you.

Would you give us your full name, for the

record.

A.

It's Mark Joshua Ginsberg, G-I-N-S-B-E-R-G.

Q. And what's your date of birth?
A.
Q.

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23

5-31-70.

If we need to either subpoena you or contact

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you, is it best to contact you either at home or at the office? Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040

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A.

Either.

I'm not planning on leaving either

any time soon.
Q.

And what's your office address?

A.

I moved since my recorded statement. My

current office address is 1216 S.E. Belmont Street, Portland, Oregon
Q.
97214.

And is that the one that's listed with the

Oregon State Bar?
A. Q. A.

Yes, it is. And what's your home address? My address is

Q.

Is there a best phone, a cell phone number

or some other number that's best to reach you at?

A.

Probably my office first,

503-542-3000,

and

then my cell phone is fine as well,
Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.

And how tall are you? Five eight, five nine. Okay. And you went to college I assume? Yes, I did. And where did you go to college?
I attended Brandeis University.

And what year did you graduate from

Brandeis?

A.

I graduated early, but technically my
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diploma was issued in May of '92, but I stopped taking classes at the end of the fall semester December '91.
Q.

And what was your major? Sociology. Did you have minors? No. Did you go directly to law school? Yes. Fall of '92 I began law school here at

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A.
Q.

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A.
Q.

A.

Lewis and Clark.
Q.

10

And what year did you graduate from Lewis

11 12 13 14 15 16
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and Clark? A.
Q.
1995.

All right.

Have you - - do you either wear

glasses, have a hearing aid, anything like that, that assists you in observing or hearing things?
A. Q. I wear glasses.

And is it for reading or distance or both? For distance. Ever in the military?
No, sir.

18 19
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A.
Q.

A.
Q.

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Do you have any involvement working for law

enforcement?
A. Q.

No, sir. Have you had any contact with law

enforcement other than for routine matters? (360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
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A.

Yes.

I - - here in Portland I chair the City

of Portland's bicycle advisory committee, and in that role I certainly deal with the police on an ongoing basis. Right now there are two police officers who

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sit on - - well, one police officer sits on the committee formally and two others also attend our meetings regularly. And in that capacity I've also dealt with other officers through the years as the traffic division's leadership has changed, as the chief has changed, and then also because of that I've had the opportunity this year to actually mediate a case at the request of the Portland Police Bureau. And I know a couple officers personally.
Q.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16
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All right. Do you have any medical

training?
A.

No, sir. EMT training? No, sir. Ever in the military? Still no, sir. Prior to the incident we're talking about

Q. A. Q.

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A.
Q.

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today, had you ever met Mr. Chasse, the deceased?
A.

No, sir. Have you had any contact with the Chasse

24

Q.
family?

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A.

Other than their attorneys making sure I was

available to be here today, no, sir.
Q.

Okay.

And that's Mr. Steenson; is that

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correct?
A.

Correct.

Q. And in terms of did he contact you to set up
a good time to come in, is that what that consisted of?
A.

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8
9

I think county counsel scheduled my

10
11

appearance today, but Mr. Steenson called me to make sure I understood what a deposition was as well.
Q.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21

Okay.

Any other contact with the Chasse

family?
A.

No, sir. Let's talk about the incident that occurred You recall that incident with

Q.

on September 17th. Mr. Chasse?
A.

Yes, sir.

Q. And you recall what you were doing at the

time you were observing Mr. Chasse the first time you saw him?
A.

22

I was sitting in my car at the time.
Okay. What kind of car was it?

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Q.

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A.

It was a Volkswagen Jetta wagon, it's a 1994

I believe.

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Q.

Okay. Might be '95 - - or, I'm sorry, 2005. Okay. And about what time of the day was

A.
Q.

this? A. It was early evening.

I don't remember the

exact time, but my wife was shopping for a picnic dinner for us and I had our baby son in the car so I was, in essence, driving around the neighborhood of the store waiting for her.
Q. A.

To come out of the Whole Foods? Our son was happy in the car, we left him in

the car.
Q.

All right. As you approached the

intersection of 13th and N.W. Everett, which direction were you traveling? A.
Q.

Was traveling southbound. Okay. And when you first observed

Mr. Chasse, were there any vehicles between you and Mr. Chasse or in front of you as you're in line?

A.

No.

The first time I saw him I had come to

a full stop at the stop sign and when I looked through the intersection I saw him on the opposite side of the intersection.
Q.

Is the Jetta an automatic transmission or a

stick? Schmitt
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A.
Q.

It's a stick shift. Okay. When you first observed Mr. Chasse is

he just directly across the street from you or is he off to the side? A. He was on the sidewalk not in the roadway,

so if I was facing due south he was slightly off to my right approximately on a clock face about my one o'clock.

Q.

And when you first observed him, what did

you notice about him?

A.

Simply that he was standing there.

You

know, as I said in my recorded statement to Detective Courtney, I noticed him and I just wanted to make sure he wasn't a pedestrian walking into the roadway so I didn't hit him.
Q.

Okay.

And you mentioned in your statement

to Detective Courtney?

A.
Q.

Yes, sir. Have you given any statements to anyone

other than Detective Courtney?
A. Q. A.

His and the grand jury. Okay.
I did testify in front of the grand jury,

but other than that, no, only Detective Courtney.
Q.

All right. And when you observed Schmitt
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Mr. Chasse, what did you notice about his appearance? A. Well, as I said in the recorded statement,

he definitely looked like a scruffy homeless person.
Q.

Okay.

And what was, if anything, was

Mr. Chasse doing when you saw him? A. there.
Q.

It appeared to me that he was just standing

What direction was he facing? He was facing westbound. All right. So as he's facing westbound, are

A.
Q.

you looking at the profile of his face? A. Yes.

I would be looking at the right side

of his face, that's correct.
Q.

Did you notice anything about his clothing? Nothing that stands out now, sir, no. Do you recall him having anything with him

A.
Q.

at the time? A. You know, I
--

I didn't. And I have had the

chance to review my recorded statement with Detective Courtney. As I said then, I don't recall if he had

anything with him, but he might have had a bag or something, but I'm not positive.
Q.

Did you see him do anything that we've not

talked about prior to a police car arriving? A. No. Schmitt
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Q.

And when you first saw a police car, what

direction was it coming from?

A.

They were coming from my right so it would

have been traveling eastbound.
Q.

Okay. And what did you see the police car

do?

A.

The first car I saw was a white police car And they pulled to

in the furthest lane from me.

their right at an angle so that I was able to see the entire driver's side. And I noticed that it said transit police which because, as I've mentioned, I've dealt with different police, I sort of noticed that right away and wondered to myself what the transit police would be doing over there. And their car stopped so that the nose of it was pulled into a parked - - a parking space and the rear of the car was still in the roadway. And there were two officers who

I recognized by uniform colors Portland Police Bureau
officers who both got out were standing with their doors open.
Q. A.

Okay. And what happened next? Then I - - I intentionally didn't enter the

intersection because I wanted to make sure I was safe. And then a second car came past them and pulled up almost directly in front of me which was a white Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 6 9 5 - 5 5 5 4 * * (503) 223-4040

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vehicle, but the person who stepped out of the driver's seat, based on the color of their uniform, I recognized as a Multnomah County Sheriff, the dark green, olive drab uniform. And then I saw Mr. Chasse

himself rotate counterclockwise, that is say sort of on his left foot, so he went from his right side profile facing me to his left side profile facing me, but he turned with his back to me.
Q.

Like a 270 degrees? Correct. No. It would have been 180 degrees from

A.

facing looking to my right rotating to looking to my left.
Q.

All right. And he did that such that his back was

A.

facing me during the rotation.
Q.

And while he's doing that are any of the

officers out of their cars or are they still in their cars? A. I believe they were all out of their cars

but standing by their cars.
Q.

Okay.

What happened next?

A.

One of the officers said something along the

lines of he's running or he's going, and all three officers approached him rapidly, you know. As I said Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040

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in the recorded statement to Detective Courtney, one of them definitely tackled him. My recollection is it

was the Portland Police officer who had been on the passenger side of the Portland Police Bureau car.
Q.

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5
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Okay. And when you saw him make contact

with them, could you see what the Portland Police officer was doing with his arms?
A.

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Well, to the extent that anything I say

today varies from that recorded statement, that was certainly the most contemporaneous thing that I've done, so to the extent that I don't remember things exactly today I would say whatever I said in the recorded statement is the most accurate.
Q.

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Sure. But it's my recollection that the officer

A.

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sort of did a flying tackle at him. And I don't remember if his arms remember wrapped around Mr. Chasse or if they were at his sides, but I believe they were sort of in an attempt to - - to catch and hold Mr. Chasse.
Q.

Okay. And when that officer made contact

with Mr. Chasse, did - - were there other officers making contact with him at the same moment or - A.

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It's my recollection that the one officer
--

was the one who

the first initial contact or impact

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with Mr. Chasse and then when they landed on the ground the two other officers also joined in.
Q.

Okay. Do you know how far the officer who

made contact with Mr. Chasse was from him when Mr. - when he sort of went flying or - - did he leave his feet?

A.

I don't recall. And I donlt know that I

would have been able to see his feet because there were parked cars as well even though I could see Mr. Chasse.
Q.

But I'm not sure, I don't recall. So Mr. Chasse goes to the

All right.

ground?
A.
Q.

Correct. And the other officer, where did he end up,

the one who tackled him as you described it?
A.

Oh, that officer ended up on top of

Mr. Chasse.
Q.

Okay. When Mr. Chasse went to the ground,

were you able to see where Mr. Chassels hands were?
A. Q.

When he hit the ground? Yes.

A.
Q.

I don't recall where they were, no.
All right. And when the officer landed on

top of Mr. Chasse as you described, would you describe it as landing directly on top of him, as to one side Schmitt
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one way or another? A. No, my recollection is he landed directly on

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top of Mr. Chasse.

Q.

And when that occurred, the other two

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officers, did they approach Mr. Chasse?

A.
Q.

Yes, they did. How far do you think they were from

Mr. Chasse when he was knocked to the ground? A. Oh, all three of them were approaching

Mr. Chasse at the same time so in the time that it took Mr. Chasse to
--

to be tackled the two other

officers were also continuing to approach.
Q.

Okay. What happened next? There was - - there was a struggle.
--

A.

Mr. Chasse and the officers

and the officers were

trying to - - Mr. Chasse, at that point, I seem to recall ended up face down and the officers were attempting to
--

what appeared to me to get his arms

behind his back I assume to handcuff him.
Q.

Okay.

And is the one officer who initially

made contact with Mr. Chasse still on top of him? A.
Q.

I believe so, yes, sir.

And did the other two officers, are they

standing, sitting, kneeling? What's their position? A. They were also - - they were certainly not Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040

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standing. They were I would say scuffling with Mr. Chasse so they may have been a combination of on him and kneeling and trying to wrestle his arms around.
Q.

3
4

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Okay.

And did you see, during that period

of time, either of the officers or the deputies make any blows or strike any blows against Mr. Chasse? A.
Q.

8 9

No, sir, I did not. Did you see him kick him in any way? No, sir, I did not. Did you see Mr. Chasse doing anything to the

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A.
Q.

officers other than physically resisting them? A.
Q.

No, I did not. Didn't see him bite an officer?
I did not.

A.
Q. A. Q.

Didn't see him strike an officer?

I did not see him strike an officer.
What's the next thing that happened? It - - within that struggling period it

A.

became very clear to me that the - - the officers had physical control of Mr. Chasse.

Q.

And how long did that take from the first

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contact to actually maintaining control of Mr. Chasse? A.
Oh, it would be an estimate, but it seemed

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very quick.

The whole thing I would say would be less Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040

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than - - less than a minute and a half.

Q.
A.

Okay. Maybe even less time than that.

3

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Q. All right. And as they are maintaining
control of him, what are you doing?

A.
Q.

I was still in my car. Okay.

I hadn't moved yet.

A.

If I had pulled straight forward it would

have been very close to the officers while this event was happening and I - - I really didn't want to endanger the officers or personally get involved. And when it seemed as the officers had physical control of Mr. Chasse, although they hadn't handcuffed him yet, I proceeded through the intersection.
Q.

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11 12 13
14

15 16 17 18
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Okay.

Up to that point, had you heard any

officer or deputy say anything to Mr. Chasse?

A.

I

--

I don't recall.

I think they may have

been speaking with him something along the lines of get your hands behind your back, but I don't
--

I

really don't recall. The part that stands out for me is, as I was pulling past them, and I did have the front windows of my car open, was that as I was driving past them I did hear Mr. Chasse yelling mercy, mercy, mercy, and that was personally pretty sort of disturbing to me. And then I left.

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Q.

Okay.

So Mr. Chasse made some statements

mercy, mercy? A.
Q.

Yes, sir. And how about did you hear any police

officer say anything to each other? A. At the very beginning before they - - one of

them said something along the lines of he's running or he's going which is - - which was the statement before the officers started approaching Mr. Chasse.
Q.

Was there any way of you telling which

officer said that? A.
Q. I don't recall, no, sir.

All right.

Was there any other conversation

you recall that day that we've not talked about?
A. Q.

Between whom? Between any of the parties, Mr. Chasse and

the police officer, the police officers among each other.
A.

Oh, no, not - - not that I heard.

I'm sure

there must have been, but not that I heard.
Q.

Okay.

And as you drove by there was then

sufficient space for you to go to the left of where Mr. Chasse was and continue down 13th; is that right?
A.

No, no.

They were to my right, so as I

continued straight across the intersection they were Schmitt
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still on the sidewalk.
Q.

Okay. And so they were on the right side of my car

A.

on the passenger side.
Q.

So there was sufficient room for you to

travel down 13th and continue straight ahead?
A. Q.

Yes, sir, correct. Okay. Did you have
--

observe or hear

anything else about Mr. Chasse and the police officers that day?

A.

Well, eventually my wife called my cell

phone, told me she was done with her food shopping, and so I picked her up. And as we were leaving we

drove - - I mentioned to her sort of vaguely what I had just seen. And as we were driving up Davis, I forget which, a block away to head to our final destination, we could see a lot of police vehicles with their lights on, and I pointed to them and said that was where that thing I just saw happened. it.
Q.

But that was

Have you followed the events involving

Mr. Chasse in the media?
A. A little bit, yes.

Q. A.

Okay.

Do you read The Oregonian?

Sometimes, but not regularly. Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040

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1 2

Q.
A.

Okay.

What's your principal source of news?

I'm embarrassed to say the Internet these

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days.
Q.

All right. Nothing embarrassing about that. And the way that I found o ' that it was uk

A.

6

Mr. Chasse was that - - and that was - - that was where things ended for me. And then later that week or it

7
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might have even been the next week the Mercury ran a story about it, and when reading that I realized that this was the event that I had witnessed.
Q.

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11 12 13
14

All right. And I was in my old office suite at that

A.

point and I mentioned it to one of my suite mates who mentioned that Mr. Steenson's firm was handling the case. And I called Mr. Steenson's firm and I also called Norm Frink at the DA's office to let them know
I was out here which precipitated Detective Courtney's

15
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17

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call to me and my scheduling with the grand jury. And then I also knew Matt Davis from the Mercury who has been, shall we say, very aggressive in attempting to get me to talk with him.
Q.

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Okay. No.

Have you given him any statements?

A.

Since the Chasse incident, Mr. - -

Mr. Davis has run a story about a client of mine and he
--

25

he very much has extended invitations to me. Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040

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It's my understanding the Mercury is doing a movie of some kind. And I've declined those invitations of his.
Q.

Was it a Sunday this incident happened with

Mr. Chasse, does that sound right to you?
A. Q. I don't know, but it sounds right.

Okay.

Had you have any alcohol to drink

that day?
A. Q.

No.

No, sir.

Any prescribed medicine, anything like that? No, sir. And after driving along Davis heading to

A.
Q.

wherever you were going, that's the last thing that you saw that day regarding Mr. Chasse or any police officer involved with Mr. Chasse; is that right?
A. Q.

That's correct. Did you testify at the grand jury? Idid. What was the first indication you had that

A.
Q.

Mr. Chasse had died after the incident you observed?
A. Q. A.
Q.

When I read about it in the Mercury. Okay. Were you surprised that he had died?
I would agree with that, yes.

Okay. That's all the questions I have. Some of the other

Thank you for coming down today. Schmitt
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Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
23

attorneys may have some questions to ask you.
A.

Thank you. EXAMINATION

BY MS. DUNAWAY:
Q.
I just have a couple of questions and then

this is a diagram that we've been using through these eye witness depositions. First question is: Why were you surprised

to find out that Mr. Chasse died? A. Well, the last time I - - the only time I saw

him he was - - he was alive yelling mercy, mercy, and I didn't know anything about the events following that until I read about it in the Portland Mercury, so that was the first I knew that - - that he was dead.
Q.

So would it be true that you didn't observe,

personally, any injuries occur that you would have expected to result in Mr. Chasse dying?
A.

Well, I don't know that I'm qualified to Certainly what I

answer the second part of that.

observed was the contact between him and the police and the deputies as I've described. To the extent

they may have resulted in injuries, I don't know that
I saw any physical - - I didn't see any blood, I didn't

see anything like an obvious external fracture of a bone, or anything like that.
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Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
24

Q.

Okay. And I don't have x-ray vision so I don't

A.

know that I would have been able to see anything like internal injury.
Q.

But nothing that you saw led you to believe

that Mr. Chasse was at risk? A.
Q.

At risk? Of dying. Oh, again, I don't know that I'm qualified

A.

to tell you the risk for his dying, but I was surprised to hear that he had passed away, yes.
Q.

Okay.

Can you study that for a second and

see if you recognize that intersection?
A.

Sure.

Is this premarked as an exhibit or we

just - Q.

No, we 're going to mark it. Okay. So this is in blue. All right. There's a pen. First thing I need for you to mark is where

A.
Q.

A.
Q.

your car was. A. When I came to a stop I was on 13th and

that's my car.
Q.

Okay.

Can you mark where Mr. Chasse was
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Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
25

standing when you first saw him with a l?

A.
Q.

(Witness complied.) Let me look. So you were going north on

13th?
A.

No.

I was heading - - I'm sorry, do I have

the intersection backwards?
Q. A.

Yes, you do. My apologies.

I was heading south.

Yes, I'm sorry, I have the intersection reversed.
Q. A.

Yeah. Should I start with a clean copy or should I

just draw on this?
Q.

I don't know that I have a clean copy with

me.

Let me see.
A.

I apologize.
I can do it in a black pen if you wish. MR. RICE:

I've got a red pen.

Whose red is

better?
MR. m E M E R :

Yours is closer. Thank you, I apologize.

THE WITNESS:
Q. A. Q. A.

(By Ms. Dunaway) That Is all right. The blue markings I did were reversed. Okay. I was heading southbound on Everett and Schmitt
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Humphreys, et al.
26

1
2
3

Mr. Chasse was diagonally across the street as I indicated approximately - -

Q.
A.
Q.

Okay.

Before you start marking

--

4
5
6
7

Thank you.
- - look at that intersection and try - - and

try to picture because there is also a tree mark. you see that?

Do

8 9

A.
Q.

Yes. Okay. So you still want to mark it where

10 11 12 13
14

that first little dash is?

A.

That's approximately where I first saw

Mr. Chasse.
Q.
A.

Okay.

So he was just at the intersection?

That's my recollection, yes. Okay. You want to mark that with a I? Sure. He may have been further west closer

15

Q.

16 17 18
19

A.

to the tree, but it was somewhere within a foot or two of where I've indicated.
Q.

Okay. Sure.

Could you circle that so - -

2o 21
22
23
24

A.

Q. All right.

Where did you see the white

police car parked?
A.
Q.

The first police car? Yeah. They were both white is my recollection. Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040

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A.

Mark J. Ginsberg, 7/31/2008

Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
27

1
2
3

Q. A. Q. A.

Okay. The first one then. The Portland Police Bureau vehicle? The transit vehicle. Okay. That one would have been pretty much

4
5
6

at the edge of this map so approximately where we've got the arrow for the 13-foot sidewalk.
Q.
A.

7
8 9
10

Okay.
I would estimate they were partially, as

I've indicated, in the parked car lane and partially sticking out of the parked car lane at an angle. can draw part of the vehicle in if you'd wish.
Q.
A.

I

11 12
13

Okay, that would be great. So I saw them coming down Everett from my

14 15
16

right and then they pulled in at an angle something approximating that.
Q.
A.
Q.

Okay. Sure.

Can you put a 2 in there?

17
18

Okay. Now, I think that you said that there

19
20 21 22
23

was another police car?
A. Q.

That's correct. Okay. Could you draw in where that other

police car was parked?

A.

Sure. My recollection is the second car

24

came around the first on Everett and then pulled also to the curb type position. Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc. (360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040

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Mark J. Ginsberg, 7/31/2008

Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
28

1
2
3

Q. And could you put a 3 in there?
A.
Q.

Sure. Okay. Can you put a 4 where it was that you

4
5
6

believe that Mr. Chasse was tackled?
A.

Also approximately where he was.

As I said,

he took maybe a single pivot step. moved very far at all.

I don't think he

7
8 9

So if I were to draw the 4

with a circle it would overlap the circle from the 1. Shall I do that?
Q.

10
11

All right. So you're saying that he was

still on the sidewalk?
A.
Q.

12
13

That's my recollection, yes.
And not in the intersection?

14 15 16
17

A. Q.

That's my recollection, yes. Okay. Sure. Okay. When you drove by after the struggle Can you put a 4 there?

A.
Q.

18 19
20 21
22

began, where were the police officers and Mr. Chasse? A. sidewalk. My recollection is they were still on the It's possible they may have come into the

parking - - the parked car lane, but I - - I know that when I pulled through the intersection I was able to drive through the travel lane.
Q.

23 24
25

Is that part of 13th one lane or two lanes?
I believe 13th in that place is two lanes

A.

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Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
29

both southbound. So two travel lanes, two parked car lanes.
Q.

Okay.

So when you traveled through that

intersection, were you in the right-hand lane? A. yes.
Q, Okay.

I was in the right-hand or west-side lane,

Can you put a

5

then where the - -

where you believe the struggle was occurring? A. The struggle was also occurring pretty much

where I wrote 1 and 4, in the very same region.
Q.

Okay. Yes.

And that was the last that you saw? After I drove past I didn't see them

A.

ever again.
Q.

Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. MR. RICE:
You want to mark that?

A.

You want

to put an MG - MS. DUNAWAY: MR. RICE: Sure.

- - in that vehicle?

MS. DUNAWAY:

All right, that was it.

EXAMINATION
BY MS. BACK:
Q.

My name is Jean Back.

I represent the

paramedics and the ambulance company that were there that day. Schmitt
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Chasse v . Humphreys, et al.
30

1

You didn't see - - my recollection from your testimony is you didn't see anything with respect to the ambulance providers that were there?

A.
Q.

That's correct. Okay. Did you see whether Mr. Chasse hit

his head when he came down on the ground?

A.
Q.

I don't recall if I saw that or not, no.

Okay.

That's all the questions I have. No questions.

MR. STEENSON:

(The deposition concluded at 8 : 5 7 AM.)

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Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.

C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF WASHINGTON COUNTY OF CLARK
) ) )

ss

I, Shannon K. Krska, a Certified Shorthand
Reporter for Oregon, do hereby certify that, pursuant to stipulation of counsel for the respective parties hereinbefore set forth, MARK J. GINSBERG personally appeared before me at the time and place set forth in the caption hereof; that at said time and place I reported in Stenotype all testimony adduced and other oral proceedings had in the foregoing matter; that thereafter my notes were reduced to typewriting under my direction; and that the foregoing transcript, pages
3 to 30, both inclusive, constitutes a full, true and

accurate record of all such testimony adduced and oral proceedings had, and of the whole thereof Witness my hand and CSR stamp at Vancouver, Washington, this 11th day of August, 2008.

Shannon K. Krska Certified Shorthand Reporter Oregon CSR No. 90-0216

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