CITY COUNCIL CITY OF NEW YORK

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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES

of the

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

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August 4, 2010 Start: 9:00 am Recess: xx:xx pm

HELD AT:

Council Chambers City Hall

B E FOR E:

INEZ E. DICKENS Chairperson

COUNCIL MEMBERS:
Council Member Vincent M. Ignizio
Council Member Robert Jackson
Council Member Karen Koslowitz
Council Member James S. Oddo
Council Member Annabel Palma
Council Member Joel Rivera 1

A P PEA RAN C E S [CONTINUED]

Inez E. Dickens opening Statement Chairperson

Committee on Standards and Ethics

Nadir Joshua Counsel

Committee on Standards and Ethics

Rafael Perez Sergeant at Arms

New York City Council

Carl D'Alba Security Director

New York City Council

Counsel to Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez

Complainant

Financial Division New York City Council

Eisha Wright

Senior Supervising Analyst Financial Division

New York City Council

Danielle Porcaro Community Liaison Speaker Quinn's Office New York City Council

Pakhi Sengupta

Senior Legislative Financial Analyst Financial Division

New York City Council

2

3

Jeffrey Eodus

First Deputy Director Finance Division

Johanna Garcia

Director for Legislative and Budget Affairs Office of Council Member Jackson

Maria del Carmen Arroyo Council Member

New York City Council

Angel Audiffred Chief of Staff

Office of Council Member Rodriguez

Jessica S. Lappin Council Member

New York City Council

Ydanis Eodriguez Council Member

New York City Council

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

[Background noise]

SERGEANT AT ARMS: Quiet please.

[Background noise)

[Gavel banging]

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

This brings--

SERGEANT AT ARMS:

[Interposing]

8 Quiet please.

9

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

This brings

10 to order the Standards and Ethics Committee

11

12

hearing of Wednesday August 4th, 2010.

Good

morning.

I am Council Member Inez E. Dickens,

13 Chair to the Committee on Standards and Ethics.

14 I am joined by my colleagues

15 Council Member Robert Jackson of Manhattan,

16 Council Member Karen Koslowitz of Queens, Council

17 Member Annabel Palma of the Bronx, our Majority

18 Leader Council Member Joel Rivera, Council Member

19 Vincent Ignizio of Staten Island and our Minority

20

Leader James Oddo.

We are also joined by our

21 Committee Chair attorney, Nadir Joshua and

22 Sergeant of Arms Rafael Perez and Security

23 Director Carl D'Alba.

24

The Committee on Standards and

Ethics is meeting today pursuant to Section 10.80

4

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 of the Council Rules to investigate an allegation

3 that Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez acted

4 inappropriately during an interaction with a

5 Council staff member.

6

COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:

Pursuant to,

7 pursuant to Article 7 of the Public Officers law I

8 move that we go into executive session to consider

9 this matter as it relates to the potential

10 discipline of a Council Member.

11

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Council

12 Member Palma has made a motion that we go into

13 14

executive session.

Is there a second?

COUNCIL MEMBER RIVERA:

I second

15 the motion.

16

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Council

17 Member Rivera seconds the motion. All those in

18 favor say aye.

19 20 21 22

MANY VOICES: Aye. CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: [No nays] CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Knowing that

Nays?

23 the ayes have it and there being no nays, I am now

24 going to close this portion of the meeting and

25

reopen in executive session.

I ask that members

5

1

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: We are now

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 of the public and Council staff except Committee

3 staff clear the room and the floor. Council

4 Member Rodriguez and his counsel and the

5 complainant may, of course, stay in the room.

6 Sergeant of Arms?

7

SERGEANT AT ARMS: Ladies and

8 gentlemen, at this time everyone has to exit the

9 room, we're going into executive session.

10 [Repeats instructions in Spanish] .

11 [Pause]

12

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you so

13 much and at this time I also want to acknowledge,

14 I also want to acknowledge that New York State

15 Assembly Member Adrianna Espaillat as well as many

16 of the other community people are here. Thank you

17 so much.

18 [Pause]

19 [END Standard Ethics 8-4-

20 2010 part 3.mp3]

21 [START Standard Ethics 8-4-

22 2010 part 4-1.mp3]

23 [Background noise]

24 [Gavel banging]

6

2 meeting in executive session. We are here to

3 investigate an allegation made against Council

4 Member Ydanis Rodriguez; specifically

5 ~an employee in the Finance Division reported

6 to Speaker Quinn that on Friday June 25th, 2010,

7 she was poked in an area between her throat and

8 her upper chest by Council Member Rodriguez. ,...

9 ....... 's duties include staffing the Council's

10 11

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

12 The Speaker referred this matter to

13 the Committee on Standards and Ethics on Monday,

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

June 25th•

The Committee opened this matter and

appointed a Subcommittee to conduct a preliminary

investigation.

The Subcommittee consisted of

myself, Council Member Inez E. Dickens and my colleagues Council Member James Oddo and Council Member Annabel Palma.

On Tuesday June 29th, 2010 the Subcommi ttee conducted Ln t e r v i ew s wi th-. Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez, and the following

23 Council employees who were identified by either

24 or the Subcommittee as potentially

25 having information that may be relevant to the

7

1

Pakhi Sengupta, Eisha Wright.

The Subcommittee

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 preliminary investigation: Angel Audiffred,

3 Latonia McKinney, Danielle Porcaro, Jeffrey Rodus,

4

5 also had informal conversations with all of the

6 members of the Manhattan delegation because the

7 incident is alleged to have occurred at the end of

8 the Manhattan delegation meeting.

9 The members of the delegation were

10 asked if they noticed or saw any unusual

11 interaction between a staff member and a Council

12

Member.

Neither the Council Members nor the staff

13 member in question were identified. None of the

14 15 16 17 18

members of the Manhattan delegation indicated that they saw any incident between a Council Member and

a staff member.

Based upon the interviews of each

witness the Subcommittee reported to the Committee

's claims were substantiated.

The

that

19 Committee, through Committee Counsel, notified

20 Council Member Rodriguez of its intention to

21 proceed with a hearing by letter on July 22nd,

22 2010.

23 That letter set forth general

24 guidelines for the hearing including that Council

25 Member Rodriguez could be accompanied by counsel,

8

1

submitted by him or by the Committee.

The

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 would receive a list of potential witnesses that

3 could be called by the Committee at the hearing

4 and that he would have the opportunity to make a

5 statement at the beginning and at the end of his

6 questioning.

7 And a separate letter dated July

8 23rd, 2010, the Committee further noticed Council

9 Member Rodriguez of the list of potential

10 witnesses, that he would have the opportunity to

11 submit witnesses to appear at the hearing and that

12 he could propose questions for each witness

13

14 Committee reserved the right to call all or none

15 of Council Member Rodriguez' suggested witnesses

16 and to use all or none of Council Member

17 Rodriguez' suggested questions.

18 Today the Committee will hear from

19 the following witnesses: Council Member Maria del

20 Carmen Arroyo; Mr. Angel Audiffred, Joanna Garcia;

21 Council Member Jessica Lappin; Ms. Danielle

22 Porcaro; Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez; Mr.

23

Jeffrey Rodus; Ms. Sengupta;

and Ms.

24

Wright.

Witnesses may make a statement to the

2 5

Committee prior to their questioning.

The initial

9

1

Committee.

Each witness's statement and the

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 questioning will be conducted by Committee

3

Council, Nadir Joshua.

The Committee may ask any

4 follow up questions it deems appropriate.

5 This portion of the hearing though

6 in executive session is being recorded by the

7

8 questions and answers will be recorded and the

9 recording will be transcribed in accordance with

10 Council policy.

11 The Committee will decide whether

12 the allegations of misconduct against Council

13 Member Ydanis Rodriguez is substantiated based on

14

a preponderance of evidence.

Should the Committee

15 find that the allegation is substantiated it will

16 submit a report to the full Council along with a

17 copy of the transcript, redacted to protect the

18 complainant's identify.

19 The report will contain a

20

recommendation for appropriate sanctions.

The

21 Committee will now begin to hear testimony and we

22 will start with But before we go, I'm

23 asking is there any other, does Council Member

24 Rodriguez have - - to record this hearing? I

25 didn't hear that.

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COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2

COUNSEL FOR COUNCIL MEMBER

3 RODRIGUEZ: Oh no.

4

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Are you the

5 attorney for Council Member Rodriguez--

6 COUNSEL FOR COUNCIL MEMBER

7

RODRIGUEZ:

[Interposing] Yes I am.

8

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Okay.

9

COUNSEL FOR COUNCIL MEMBER

10 RODRIGUEZ: Am I allowed to--I can take notes?

11 Yeah, okay. We're not recording.

12

13

14

15

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Okay .....

good morning.

Good morning.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: This is the

16 statement I'm going to read.

17 Okay.

18

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you for

19 joining us today and as you have been previously

20 instructed with respect to this investigation you

21 will not be retaliated against or in any way

22 disciplined for making your original complaint.

23 Until this matter is resolved Council Member

24 Rodriguez has been instructed that he and his

staff are not to have contact with

u.

11

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 If you think you are being

3 retaliated against by the Council Member, any

4 member of his staff or anyone else in the Council

5 for making this complaint, you should immediately

6 contact Committee Counsel Nadir Joshua.

7 if you have a prepared

8 statement you may read it into the record. And

9 after your statement, Attorney Joshua may ask you

10 questions to gather additional information about

11 the alleged incident between you and Council

12 Member Rodriguez. We may interrupt you if he

13 needs clarification about any of your answers.

14 This is to ensure that the Committee has a full

15 and clear picture of what occurred.

16 You should let Mr. Joshua know that

17 if you do not understand any questions he asks and

18 you are free to stop at any point if you desire to

19

take a break.

This hearing is being taped and

20

will be transcribed.

This investigation is

21 pursuant to Council policy.

22 You are asked to answer truthfully

23

all questions asked of you.

If it is determined

24 that you have been untruthful in your appearance

2S before the Committee, you may be subject to

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COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 disciplinary action up to and including

3

termination.

Do you understand the statement I

4 have read?

5

6

~ Yes.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

You may read

7 your statement now but would you please identify

8 who is with you.

10 ......

11 Good morning. My name is ........

12 ~ I work for the Finance Division as a

13

14

15

16

and staff the

and

Committee and

the.- Committee on--..

I've worked at

17 the Council for over three and a half years and in

18 that time I have been the Finance Analyst to the

20 I would like to read my statement

21 in regards to the incident that occurred on June

22 25~h, 2010 between Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez

23

and me.

On Thursday June 24"n, a meeting of the

24 New York City Council Budget Negotiating Team

25 occurred to review the proposed budget agreement

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1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 between the Mayor and the City Council, between

3 3:00 and 4:00 that afternoon.

4 Immediately following the BNT

5 meeting all Borough delegations of the Council met

6 in assigned rooms in City Hall to also review the

7 proposed budget agreement. I was assigned to the

8 Bronx Borough delegation. During this review I

9 was pulled from the Bronx to answer a question by

10 the Manhattan Borough delegation in regards to the

11 proposed decision for the Council to fund the

12 Puerto Rican Studies Institute known as El Centro

13 and the Dominican Studies Institute which are part

14 of the City University of New York System at

15 $250,000 each which left each institute with a

16 decrease of $220,000.

17 As I did not know the rationale

18 behind this funding decrease I sought out the

19 Finance Division Director Preston Niblack for this

20 information before speaking to the Manhattan

21

delegation.

He shared that since the Council

22 would restore CUNY's operational need of $21.4

23 million and funded the Vallone Scholarship, CUNY

24 would find the funds to keep each institute whole.

25 I then went into the Red Room where the Manhattan

14

1

information.

The delegation did not have any

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 delegation was meeting and shared this

3

4 follow-up questions or concerns in regards to my

5 response and I was able to leave the Red Room and

6 return to the Bronx delegation.

7 The Chair of the Higher Education

8 Committee, Ydanis Rodriguez, was in the Red Room

9 where I shared this information along with his

10 Chief of Staff, Angel Audiffred. Neither Council

11 Member Rodriguez nor Angel contacted me or anyone

12 in my division during or after this meeting. And

13 later that night the handshake between the Mayor

14 and the Speaker took place at City Hall on the

15 proposed budget agreement.

16 On Friday, June 25th, another BNT

17 meeting occurred around 3:00 P.M. to review any

18 proposed changes that any of the Borough

19 delegations might have brought up the night

20 before, any details overlooked at yesterday's

21 meeting, and to discuss possible designations to

22

be included at the budget adoption.

Immediately

23 following the BNT meeting the Borough delegations

24 were asked to meet so that these changes and

25 possible designations could be decided upon.

15

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COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 The Bronx delegation was one of the

3 delegations to be finished early so I left the

4 Green Room and went upstairs to use the lavatory.

5 Upon my return, my Deputy Director, Latonia

6 McKinney who was assisting the Brooklyn delegation

7 in the Council Chambers asked me to retrieve a

8 colleague, Eisha Wright, to discuss the DOVE

initiative and review designations.

I went back downstairs to find Eisha in the Red Room reviewing this initiative

one on one with Council Members.

She was

currently meeting with Council Member Mark-

Viverito.

I excused myself and shared the request

15 for her presence when she finished with the

16 17 18 19 20 21

22

23

24

25

Manhattan delegation.

I then walked out of the

Red Room and crossed paths with Council Member

Rodriguez and Angel.

I greeted Council Member

Rodriguez with a handshake when he said he needed to speak with me.

He began leading me to the Green Room but there were Bronx delegation members still in the room and he then backed up--backed up still searching but there was no room available for a

private conversation.

He then pulled me back into

16

1 2

He

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

the Red Room a few feet away from the door.

3 stood with his back to the wall and I stood facing

4 him with my back to the center of the room with

5 only a few inches of space between the two of us.

6 This was my first conversation with him in

7 approximately a week or so.

8 Council Member Rodriguez stated

9 loudly and sternly I do not appreciate as Chair of

10 the Higher Education Committee not being consulted

11 on the decision to not fund the Puerto Rican and

12 Dominican Institutes. While saying I do not

13 appreciate it, he has his pointer, middle and

14 index finger half cupped for emphasis of these

15 words which culminated in him poking me in the

16 area between the top of my chest plate and the

17 bottom of my throat.

18 It was after the word appreciate

19 20

that he dropped his hand.

In shock I leaned back

and said okay.

The Council Member continues but

21 at a lower voice decibel that the two institutes

22 should not have to wait on CUNY to secure the

23

remaining funds.

Instead the Council should make

24 the institutes whole by using the $400,000 from

25 the operational support funding.

17

1

Chambers.

I ran into Latonia on the steps and I

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2

Still in shock and confused as to

3 why he was sharing this with me, I responded I

4 will share this with leadership. I do not recall

5

what his response was.

I quickly walked away from

6 him and began walking upstairs to the Council

7

8 told Latonia that Council Member Rodriguez just

9 yelled at me over the funding for the Puerto Rican

10 and Dominican Institutes and how he poked me.

11 She was upset over the exchange and

12 13

stated that she would say something to him.

I

told her no.

She was tired and upset and I didn't

14 think it should be her place to say something.

15 She asked me a few times if I was sure and I said

16

I told her I would send an email to Jeff

yes.

17 Road, First Deputy Director in the Finance

18 Division.

19 I continued upstairs and walked

20 through the chambers to the lavatory where I began

21

I gathered myself together and walked

to cry.

22 downstairs and using my phone and through my

23 personal email account while returning downstairs

24 I sent Jeff an email titled Rodriguez issue which

25 I stated: Council Member Rodriguez came at me

18

1

Literally came at me.

It was sent at 4:57 P.M.

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 about the institutes not being fully funded.

3

4 I saw Council Member Rodriguez

5 still around the area where the copier machine was

6 in between Ramon Martinez' office and the Red

7

I did not want to engage any further with

Room.

8 him and I went into the main waiting area outside

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

of the Speaker's and Chuck Meara's offices.

I was

hoping to see Jeff, Preston or Ramon Martinez, First Deputy Chief of Staff to the Speaker but I

did not.

I did not receive Jeff's response on my

phone so I thought he didn't respond. But apparently he did.

About 15 minutes later I walked out into the corridor and ran into Latonia again

outside of the member's lounge.

I began to cry

18 again and Latonia thought something else had

19 occurred and I shared I was still upset over the

20 earlier incident and I told her I could still feel

21

his fingers at my throat.

She suggested that we

22 leave since I was so upset.

23

When entering the Green Room to

24 gather my belongings, Council Member Jackson and

25 Council Member Arroyo were sitting in the room and

19

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Joanna Garcia who is the Interim Executive

3 Director of the Black, Latino and Asian Caucus was

4 also there. And she asked if I could speak to the

5 Chairs about the Coalition of Theaters of Color

6

Initiative.

Still upset I asked if she could give

7 me a moment to gather myself which she did.

8 Latonia was ready to go but when I

9 told her about the briefing request she sat with

10

me while I gave the briefing.

It was about 5:30

11 P.M. when I finished with Council Members Arroyo

12 and Jackson. And when walking out, we ran into

13 Jeff who wanted to speak to me about capital

14 funding.

15 Latonia had to leave for child care

16

issues and I remained with Jeff.

Neither Jeff nor

17 I referred to my email or his response that I

18 19

hadn't received on my phone.

I figured we would

discuss later.

He wanted me to go over cultural

20 capital projects with the Speaker before leaving

21 for the night and I told him I needed to return to

22 our offices at 250 Broadway to retrieve my capital

23 binder.

24 I walked over and found my

25 colleague Pakhi Sengupta still in the office. And

20

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 as we were--as we are in the same unit we often

3 vent to each other about difficult situations we

4

face in our positions.

I shared with her the

5 exchange I had with Council Member Rodriguez and I

6 knew when I returned across the street I needed to

7 discuss with Jeff and Preston.

8 Pakhi supported me in my decision

9 to share with Jeff and Preston and she also

10

suggested that I tell the Speaker directly.

I

11 returned to City Hall and walked into the waiting

12 room outside the Speaker's Office. Jeff came out

13 and I blurted out the story to him. Jeff

14 immediately called the Speaker and Ramon into the

15 16

waiting room.

He told them that Council Member

Rodriguez had put his hands on me.

The Speaker

17 asked me to share with her the entire story and

18 demonstrate how the Council Member had touched me.

19 During this time Preston entered

20 the room and now my entire leadership was aware of

21

this situation.

The Speaker requested Liz Fine or

22 Jim Caras from the General Counsel's Office to

23

come over and speak to me.

The Counsel then moved

24 me into Chuck Meara's office for privacy. And Jim

25 and Nadir Joshua from the General Counsel's Office

21

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 came In and I shared what had happened.

3 The Speaker then returned and said

4 she was going to file a complaint with the

S 6

Committee on Standards and Ethics. was okay with this and I said yes.

She asked if I Jim and Nadir

7 returned to the room and went over the procedure

8 of the Committee and I was asked not to speak to

9 anyone about the incident, I should not speak with

10 Council Member Rodriguez or his staff and the

11 Council Member or his staff should not speak to

12 me.

13 They shared that I could file a

14 police report but I chose to handle the matter

lS

internally.

I was given the option to leave for

16 the night or continue working and I chose to

17

continue working.

I needed to keep busy. And Jim

18 and Nadir gave me their cell phone numbers. I had

19 regained my composure and went back to work.

20 Between 8:00 and 8:30 P.M. that

21 night I returned to the office and at the entrance

22 of 250 Broadway I ran into Danielle Porcaro, Kate

23 Seely Kirk [phonetic], Melanie LaRocca [phonetic],

24 Eunic Ortiz and others who were leaving the

25

building.

They invited me out with them but I

22

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 declined. Danielle pulled me to the side and

3 shared that Pakhi told her what had happened and I

4 told her that I just shared with the Speaker and

S leadership. And since there was a large crowd we

6 didn't discuss further.

7 I went inside and upstairs and

8

found Pakhi still in the office.

I told her that

9 I had shared with the Speaker and leadership and

10

that the Speaker had filed a formal complaint.

11 then asked her to not share this situation with

12 anyone and she told me about Danielle and I told

13 her not to worry about it because she had shared

14 before the formal complaint was filed.

lS I straightened up and prepared for

16 a 9:00 A.M. meeting I had with Jeff on Saturday

17 for leaving for the night. This concludes my

18 statement. Thank you for this opportunity to

19 20 21 22 23 24

share what led to and occurred on Friday, June

I'm happy to answer any question you may

have at this time.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you so

much for your statement. And an initial set of questions will be asked by the Committee attorney.

25

MR. NADIR JOSHUA: Hi

So

23

I

1

hand dropped and he poked you.

How many times did

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 you indicated that the Council Member, when he met

3 with you, used three fingers and at some point his

4

5 he poke you?

6 I t was around two to

7 three times.

8 9

MR. JOSHUA:

Thank you.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

I'm sorry

10 Committee Chairman, Council Member Ignizio, can

11 you demonstrate the air what you're referring to

12

in terms of three, so I just get a visual.

I know

13 it can't be heard on the--just so we can--sorry to

14 interrupt.

15 It, it's, it was like

16 when he was saying I do not appreciate, so it's

17 18 19 20 21 22

like I, do not, appreciate. it's.

In this area.

So

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Okay so

it's three fingers and a thump--

[Interposing] Hum.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

--type of

23 thing.

25

HR. JOSHUA:

Thank you.

So you

24

1

It was too chaotic, I,

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 also indicated that the incident happened around

3

sort of outside of the Red Room.

Do you remember

4 anyone who was in or around the Red Room at the

S time of the incident?

No. The incident

6

7 happened inside the Red Room and though there were

8 many people in the room with my back facing the--

9 with my back to the inside of the room I, I do not

10 recall anyone specifically who was there at the

11 time.

12

MR. JOSHUA: And you said that

13 there were members who were in the Green Room.

lS

MR. JOSHUA:

Do you remember who

16 those members were?

17 No.

Okay. All right.

You

18

MR. JOSHUA:

19 indicated that when he met you, when he spoke--

20 when the Council Member spoke to you initially,

21 your words were he said loudly and sternly that he

22 didn't appreciate not being told about the

23 changes. Would you say that his statement to you

24 was audible by other people in the area?

-

2S

2S

1

MR. JOSHUA: Okay. So I mean--

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 I would say yes but I don't, I don't know.

3

4 right. Not that you know whether or not other

5 people heard but it would--it could be possible

6 for someone else to have heard.

7 Yes.

8

MR. JOSHUA: Okay. And then you

9 said after that his, his tone sort of--

10 [Interposing] Dropped.

11

MR. JOSHUA: --decreased and he

12 became less audible to other people.

13 ~ Yes.

14

MR. JOSHUA: Okay. So you've

15 identified Pakhi Sengupta, Latonia McKinney,

16 Jeffrey Rodus, and Speaker Quinn and Danielle

17 Porcaro as people who you spoke to about the

18

incident.

Is there anyone else at the Council who

19 you spoke to about the incident?

20 Eisha Wright.

21

MR. JOSHUA: And what is Eisha

22 Wright's position at the Council?

23 She lS the Supervising

24 Legislative Financial Analyst.

25

MR. JOSHUA: And you had previously

26

1

MR. JOSHUA:

So do you know if she

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 said in your statement that Ms. Wright was in the

3 Red Room and that you had gone into the Red Room

4 to get her to go to another meeting.

5 Yes.

6

7 witnessed the interaction with you and Council

8 Member Rodriguez?

9 No I don't think so

10 because she was--it's--involved doing her, her

11 work that--and I think her back was--would--would

12 13

be to, to us.

MR. JOSHUA:

So when did you speak

14 to Ms. Wright?

15 Some time in between--

16 before leaving, before leaving City Hall, so

17 sometime before she went upstairs to deal with the

18 Brooklyn, Brooklyn delegation because I think she

19 saw me with Latonia being upset and so we talked

20 about it.

21

MR. JOSHUA:

Okay. And so did she

22 approach you about the incident or did you

23 approach her?

24

She, she approached

25 just not necessarily about the incident, she just

27

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 approached because she saw where I was upset.

3 MR. JOSHUA: And what did you tell

4 her?

5 And I told her that I

6 had just had an incident with Council Member

7 Rodriguez.

8

MR. JOSHUA: And did you say

9 anything else?

10 No.

11

MR. JOSHUA: And how did she

12 respond?

13

14

15

Upset.

MR. JOSHUA: Did she say anything? No. She could--no she

16 was just--expressed concern, wanted to make sure

17 that I was okay but she then had to go on to the

18 Brooklyn delegation.

19 MR. JOSHUA: And did you talk to

20 her at any other point about the incident?

21 She asked me again if I

22 was okay later that night.

23

MR. JOSHUA: And what did you tell

24 her about that--

25 [Interposing] And I

28

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 said that I was fine. But at that point the

3 formal complaint had been filed so I had no

4 longer; I didn't give any details after that.

5

MR. JOSHUA: Okay. So you told her

6 that you filed a complaint.

7 Yes.

8 MR. JOSHUA: And was anyone else

9 around when you spoke to?

10 No.

11 MR. JOSHUA: To Eisha. Was anyone

12 else around when you spoke to Latonia McKinney

13 about the incident?

14 15

No.

MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone else around

16 when you spoke to Jeff Rodus about the incident?

17

Yes.

Because we were

18 in the waiting room, the waiting room area outside

19 of the Speaker's Office. So the Speaker's staff

20 in that area, they were around. That was it.

21 MR. JOSHUA: Did you talk to any of

22 them directly?

23 No.

24 MR. JOSHUA: About the incident.

25

No.

29

1 2

MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone else around

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

3 when you spoke to--you mentioned that there were

4 several people who were also around when you spoke

5 to Danielle Porcaro but none of the--did you talk

6 to any of those people?

7 No.

8

MR. JOSHUA: Have you spoken with

9 anyone else at the Council about your interaction?

10 No.

11 MR. JOSHUA: With Council Member

12 Rodriguez. And you reported it directly to the

13 Speaker.

14 Yes.

15 MR. JOSHUA: And why did you report

16 the incident?

17 Because it was an

18 incident and I felt that she needed to know what

19 had happened between a Council Member and one of

20 her staff.

21 MR. JOSHUA: Did anyone encourage

22 you to report the incident?

23 No.

24

MR. JOSHUA: Okay.

So those are my

25

questions.

If the Council Members have additional

30

1

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 questions.

3

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: If my

4 Committee has any?

5 [Pause]

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council

6 7 8

Member Oddo?

9 when you spoke to--with Council Member Rodriguez

10 in and around the Red Room, was his Chief of--do

11 you recall if his Chief of Staff was around?

12 I know that he was with

13 us when he was looking for an area to talk to me

14 but I don't know if he was standing right next to

15 us when we had this--

16 17 18

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:

[ Interposing]

Okay--

--conversation.

19 COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: --okay the

20 only other question I have is do you believe that

21 Council Member Rodriguez when, when you say he had

22 his fingers cupping that he intended to touch you

23 or do--was it incidental? Do you--or you don't

24 know?

25

I don't know.

I wo u.I d

31

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 like to believe that it wasn't intentionally but I

3 don't know if it was or wasn't.

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Okay thank

4

5 you.

6 Thank you.

7

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Council

8 Member Jackson?

9 10

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:

Thank you

and friend.

Madam Chair.

Good morning

11 But you had--you, in your testimony that you read,

12 you had indicated that Council Member Rodriguez, I

13 believe you said in a somewhat loud voice or loud

14 voice said he did not appreciate, and he

15 emphasized that you had said that you were within

16 several inches of each other.

17 I would classify that as within a

18 foot of each other when he was communicating with

19 you. And you showed that he was emphasizing with

20 his hand. And that he touched you or poked you

21

between your chin and your chest.

I guess my

22 question is what was the--before him communicating

23

with you, what was, sorry.

How would you

24 characterize Council Member Rodriguez' demeanor

25 during or before this conversation?

32

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 When I, when I went to

3 greet him and I was shaking his hand, he had a, he

4

didn't have a happy demeanor.

So I knew that, you

5 know, it was serious like he had--he needed to

6 have a serious conversation with me.

7

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And how

8 was your demeanor prior to that incident?

9 10

......

Happy_

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. And

11 how would you characterize Council Member

12 Rodriguez' demeanor during the interaction? And

13 how would you characterize your demeanor during

14 15

that interaction?

I:

C £

He, the seriousness

16 stayed as he was making his statement I do not

17

appreciate.

Once his voice lowered and he began

18 to speak about his idea of where the funding

19 should come from, he kind of resumed to the normal

20 demeanor that I'm used to him being more, you

21

know, friendly and open. Mine was of shock.

So I

22 believe, you know, I believe that if I had a

23 mirror in front of me my eyes would be as wide as

24 they could possibly be and I just--I became

25 serious.

33

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:

Now you

3 had, you gave testimony that the two of you were

4 basically very close In proximity. And so close

5 enough that where he was talking to you, that he

6 actually poked you several times.

7 Yes.

8

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:

During

9 this incident did you, if you are aware, did you

10 step back or did you remain in the position in

11 which you were?

I leaned back.

I don't

12 13

think I took any steps back.

I just kind of just

14 leaned back.

15

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:

In your

16 opinion do you believe that Council Member

17 Rodriguez, if you have an opinion at all, do you

18 have an opinion on do you believe that the Council

19 Member was aware that he was poking you?

20 I don't know. Again I

21 would like to think that he--it wasn't intentional

22 but I don't know.

23

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:

Now you

24 had testified that this took place in the Red Room

25 near the door, is that correct?

34

1 2 3

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And you

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

That's correct.

4 said that your back was facing the Red Room so in

5 essence you were facing more, I guess, towards the

6 door, is that correct?

7 Yes. The wall.

8 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: So Council

9 Member Rodriguez' position of his body was facing,

10 his face was facing in towards the Red Room.

11 Correct. Okay. And this took place the day after

12 the handshake. Is that correct?

13 14

Correct.

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay.

15 Okay. Thank you.

16

Thank you.

17 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: The

18 Committee, also, I want to note at this point that

19 we have asked for and received a copy of the email

20 exchange between Mr. Jeffrey Rodus and you""

21 ....

22

Okay. Council Member

23 Ignizio.

24

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Yes, thank I have in my possession that email which

25

you.

35

1

question.

Is this something that, from your

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 reads Council Member Rodriguez came at me about

3 the institutes not being fully funded, literally

4

came at me.

With that, you imply physically with

5 a touching aspect.

6 Have you ever encountered a

7 situation which would have made you believe that

8 Council Member Rodriguez would have done something

9 like this or was it totally a shock to you that

10 this is not his demeanor as a general rule and

11 this, you know, I think you understand the

12

13 perspective, came out of left field, that I didn't

14 think this was within his?

15 I did not think that

16 this incident would ever occur.

17

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

So nothing

18 prior to this ever occurred--

19 [Interposing] No.

20

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

--where he

21 would raise his voice or he would, you know,

22 where--

24

or to any of the other Committee staff.

It hadn't

25 happened.

36

1 2

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Okay. And

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

3 just so I put this in context, historically if a

4 Council Member were to be adamant or emotional

5 have you experienced that in the past of--no

6 touching, clearly, but a Council Member, you know

7 sometimes, me, I speak with my hands a lot, as you

8 can see, I just, that's how I am.

9 R. J. has a loud voice sometimes.

10 I mean something like that where that's elicited

11 emotional response from a Council Member that you

12 have, hey, the guy or the girl was just upset.

13 They're upset about a budget item but, you know,

14 that was that. Have you ever experienced that in

15 the past?

16 Not towards me.

17 18

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Not

towards you.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Thank

19 you Madam Chair.

20 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

21 how would you describe your relationship with

22 Chair Rodriguez prior to this incident, how would

23 you describe your relationship?

24 It was a new working

25

relationship.

I think we were just learning each

37

1 2

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

other.

I do--we didn't spend a lot of time around

3 each other, just trying to help him get through

4 the preliminary and executive budget hearings and

5 making sure that he understood CUNY's budget, so

6 new, professional, courteous.

17 well as the _ Commi ttee on

18 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And but were

19 you wi th.- prior to being--January 1 of

20 2010.

21 Yes.

7 8 9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16

22

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: All right.

And now how long have you been on staff with the Council?

Over three and a half

years.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Well were you with any other Committees other than & If?

I'm currently and

~~- .. a •• '_ Committee, as

Yes.

also on the

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: So prior to

23 you also worked on the same Committee.

24 Yes.

2S

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: All right.

38

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

And also on

you said. Yes.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: So at times,

2 3 4

5 Council Members have all been told about various

6 cuts and enhancements to items on the budget.

7

_:

Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: All right.

9 Have you ever in the past had an experience with

10 one of your Chairs, since you have two Committees?

11 12

~:

Yes.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

That were hit

13 with a cut to their budget and how did they handle

14 it? How did other Council Members handle it? You

15 understand what I'm asking?

16 Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: What is the

18 procedure for Council Members that you know of, if

19 there is a cut? Is that we come at you or ask you

20 about it or what--what--

21

[Interposing] No.

The,

22 for areas like that, for those kinds of purposes

23 they usually discuss with Ramon Martinez, they

24 talk to Preston Niblack or Jeffrey Rodus. They

25 would--because they're the ones that are always ln

39

1

--for the budget. CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: --who Preston

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 the room when it comes to negotiating--

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

[Interposing]

3 4 5 6

Can you tell me--

7 Niblack is?

8 Preston Niblack is the

9 Director of the Finance Division.

10

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Okay. - - so

11 he is the Director for the Finance Division.

12 Yes.

13

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And what

14 about Jeffrey Rodus?

15 Jeffrey Rodus is First

16 Deputy Director of the Finance Division.

17 18 19 20

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council

Member Oddo?

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Thank you

at some point in, after

Madam Chair.

21 the alleged incident took place, did--was there a

22 moment when you shared this--the details of this

23 situation with a colleague and they encouraged you

24 to inform someone higher up in the Council

25 hierarchy where you indicated no I'd rather not or

40

1

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: No. Where I

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 I don't want to?

4

5 don't want to make it an issue or something to

6 that effect?

7 8

No. The--I knew that I

was going to share with Preston and Jeff.

I think

9 in my statement I said that Pakhi Sengupta said

10 that I should, that I should tell the Speaker

11 directly myself instead of having Preston and Jeff

12 relay the incident. And I agreed with that and I

13 didn't even had a, you know, I didn't have to

14 worry about it anyway because Jeff brought the

15 Speaker in immediately.

16 COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Okay. And

17 when you say loudly and sternly, could you just

18 say it to the degree, to the decibel level so that

19 I could better judge what your definition of

20 21

loudly and sternly is.

I'm smiling because I,

22 if anyone knows me; they know I have a very quiet

23 voice. So I'm not--I don't even know if I could--

24

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:

[ Interposing]

25 Okay.

41

1 2 3

-= Sure.

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

._. Do that in.

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Okay. But

4 let me ask you one last question. Would you be

5 willing to demonstrate on me the actual touching?

6

7 COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Madam Chair,

8 is that allowed?

9 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Absolutely.

10 I can even - -

11

COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:

[Laughing] I

12 don't know if I want that.

13 [Demonstration]

14

COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Like that?

15 Okay so it was not--it wasn't [demonstrating] but

16 it was I don't appreciate [demonstrating] Thank

17 you. That's it Madam Chair.

18 MR. JOSHUA: So the record should

19 20

reflect that

and Council Member Oddo

said I

were facing each other and when

21 don't appreciate, used three fingers to touch an

22 area between his throat and upper chest.

23

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Demonstrate -

24 - although Council Member Oddo was--to demonstrate

25 had occurred between you and Council Member Ydanis

42

1

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Do any of my

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Rodriguez.

3 Correct.

4

5 Committee members have any other questions? Thank

6 you.

7 8 9

10 11

MR. JOSHUA: No, no, we thank you.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you.

Thank you Committee.

[Pause]

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

I'm going to

12 call Ms. Eisha Wright - - .

13 [Background noise]

14

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

I want to

15 note that for the Committee, I want to note for

16 the Committee that was told she could

17 remain in the hearing room during the questioning,

18

but she chose not to.

Good morning. Would you

19 please state your name and your title and your

20 longevity with the Council?

21 22 23

MS. EISHA WRIGHT:

Good morning.

Good morning, my name is Eisha Wright.

On now?

Oh.

Good morning, my name is Eisha Wright.

I'm a

24 Supervising Legislative Financial Analyst in the

25 Finance Division and I've been with the City

43

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Council since 2001.

3 4

much.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you so Thank you for meeting with us this morning.

5 You previously met with Council Member Palma,

6 Council Member Oddo and myself concerning an

7 investigation into an allegation of an incident

8 between Council Member Rodriguez and

9

...

The Committee on Standards and Ethics is

10 holding a hearing today to investigate

11 allegation further.

12 If you have a prepared statement

13 you may read it into the record. After such

14 statement, Committee Counsel, Nadir Joshua may ask

15 you questions to gather additional information

16

about the alleged incident.

He may interrupt you

17 if he needs clarification about any of your

18 answers.

19 This is to ensure that the

20 Committee has a full and clear picture of what

21

happened.

You should let Mr. Joshua know that if

22 you do not understand any of the questions he asks

23 of you and of course you are free to stop at any

24 point if you would like to take a break. After

25 Mr. Joshua's questions, Committee members may ask

44

1

pursuant to Council policy.

You are asked to

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 you additional follow up questions.

3 This hearing is being taped and

will be transcribed.

This investigation is

4 5

6 answer truthfully all questions asked of you. If

7 it is determined that you have been untruthful in

8 your appearance before the Committee, you may be

9 subject to disciplinary action up to and including

10 termination.

11 In addition, when you previously

12 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself,

13 you were asked not to share the contents of this

14 incident or the Committee's investigations with

15 any press, any Council Members or anyone else

16 17 18 19 20

employed at the Council.

This prohibition remains

in effect.

Do you understand?

MS. WRIGHT:

Yes.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you so

much.

Do you have a prepared statement or are you

21 ready to begin?

22

MS. WRIGHT:

I'm ready to begin.

23 do not have a prepared statement.

24

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you.

2S

MR. JOSHUA:

Thank you Eisha.

In

45

I

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 your position at the Council do you have regular

3 contact with Council Member Rodriguez?

4

MS. WRIGHT: No my first time

5 meeting with Council Member Rodriguez was on June

6 25th after the Manhattan delegation, I had to meet

7 with him to discuss one of the citywide Council

8 initiatives which was a domestic violence and

9 empowerment initiative.

10

MR. JOSHUA: And in that

11 interaction, how would you describe that

12 interaction?

13

MS. WRIGHT:

This was my, again, my

14 first time meeting with him, the interaction was

15

okay.

I don't know him personally.

I just

16 discussed three initiatives that he, excuse me,

17 three groups that he shares with Council Member

18 Jackson that was previously shared with Council

19

Member Martinez.

That was my first time

20 interacting with him.

21

MR. JOSHUA:

How would you describe

22 the Council Member's demeanor in that interaction?

23

L1 S. vJR I G H T :

Looking back after,

24 you know, knowing what took place he did appear to

25 be a little upset but again I've never had any

46

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 interaction with him so I don't know him

3 personally or know what his behavior is like--

4

MR. JOSHUA:

[Interposing] But at

5 the time of the incident did you perceive him to

6 be upset or is that just in retrospect?

7

MS. WRIGHT: Well he seemed a

8 little rushed but I was more focused on trying to

9 get through the initiatives to go upstairs and

10 meet with the Brooklyn delegation so, you know--

11

MR. JOSHUA:

[Interposing] You said

12 rushed, did you mean hurried as he seemed like he

13 was in a--needed to leave or be in another place?

14 15

MS. WRIGHT: A little hurried, yes.

MR. JOSHUA: Okay.

But he didn't--

16 did he seem--he didn't seem angry or agitated?

17 18

MS. WRIGHT: Not with me, no.

MR. JOSHUA:

Okay. And how was

19 your demeanor in that interaction?

20

MS. WRIGHT: My demeanor was fine.

21 I had just finished meeting with Council Member

22 Jackson and I was getting ready to ask to leave

23 the room and Council Member Jackson called me back

24 and said that Council Member Rodriguez was

25 actually here now so we could finish discussing

47

1

questions about that.

When did you first learn of

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 the initiative.

3

MR. JOSHUA: And when did--so the

4 interaction took place on Friday--

5 6 7

MS. WRIGHT:

MR. JOSHUA:

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] Yes. --June 25 th __

June 25th, after the

8 Manhattan delegation had wrapped up their meeting.

Okay.

In your

9

MR. JOSHUA:

10 position do you have regular contact with

11 ~

12

13

MS. WRIGHT: Yes.

MR. JOSHUA: Can you describe your

14 interactions generally with her?

15

MS. WRIGHT:

Sure, we're both

16 Financial Analysts so oftentimes we'll meet

17 together to discuss, you know, a bunch of

18 documents and find better ways to coordinate with

19 our agencies.

20

Okay.

So

MR. JOSHUA:

21 identified you as a person she spoke with about

22 the alleged incident with Council Member

23

24

Rodri9uez.

So I'm just going to ask you some

25 the alleged incident?

48

1 2

delegation.

I was in the office by myself

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MS. WRIGHT: After I had returned

3 back to the office from meeting with the Brooklyn

4

5 wrapping up, you know my paperwork. And ........

6 came in the office and I looked at her and her

7 face was--she appeared as if she was crying, her

8

face was red.

So I asked her what was wrong. And

9 she began to explain to me what took place with

10 her and Council Member Rodriguez.

11

MR. JOSHUA: And had you heard

12 about an incident at any point prior to that?

13

MS. WRIGHT: Well when I actually

14 had finished wrapping up In the Manhattan

15 delegation my boss, Andy Grossman and another

16 colleague, Regina, was standing outside of Ramon's

17 office--

18

MR. JOSHUA:

[Interposing] I'm

19 sorry could you just state Regina's last name?

20

MS. WRIGHT:

Regina Ryan.

So they

21 were standing outside of Ramon's office and Regina

22 said to me--

23

MR. JOSHUA:

[Interposing] Ramon? Ramon Martinez, I'm

24

MS. WRIGHT:

25

Regina said to me that either

sorry.

49

1 2

So I had, you

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

4S ...... or Pakhi Sengupta was crying.

3 know, looked back over my shoulder and saw

4 _' s back inside of the Green Room so I

5 figured that she wasn't crying and then when Pakhi

6 came out of Ramon's office I saw she wasn't crying

7 and then I went over to, back over to 250

8 Broadway. At that time I don't know what had

9 10

taken place.

It was when I got back to 250 and I

saw tha t _-.1It

explained to me what

11 happened to her while she was also in the Red

12 Room.

13

MR. JOSHUA:

So what did

14 say to you?

15

MS. WRIGHT:

16 that either when she was either coming in or

17 coming--going in or coming out of the Red Room

18 that Council Member Rodriguez had basically

19 cornered her and had expressed verbally to her

20 that he was upset at the fact that he was not

21 included in any of the items pertaining to his

22 Committee. Whereas like citywide Council

23 initiatives. And she said that he had physically

24 got in her personal space and had like pointed in

2S her neck, you k n ow , into her throat area--

50

1 2 3

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MR. JOSHUA: [Interposing] And-MS. WRIGHT: --telling her how

4 upset he was.

5

6 7 8 9

10 11

MR. JOSHUA: And the record should

just reflect that Ms. Wright is now pointing at

her own neck to demonstrate how •••••

had

indicated that the Council Member allegedly pointed at her.

MS. WRIGHT: Yes.

MR. JOSHUA: Is that all she said

12 to you?

13

14 said.

15

16 17 18 19 20 21

22

23

24

MS. WRIGHT: Yes. That's all she

MR. JOSHUA: And how did you

respond?

MS. WRIGHT:

I told her that she

needed to say something because it's not her fault that he was not aware of the process or aware of the items that were taking place in his Committee. So I told her that she needed to say something to Preston about it.

[JjR. JOSHUl\:

To Preston?

HS. WRIGHT:

Preston Niblack, our

25 Director of the Finance Division.

51

1 2

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MR. JOSHUA: Did you say anything

3 else?

4 S

it.

MS. WRIGHT: No I believe that was I mean I did give her a hug and told her that

6 I was sorry that happened to her but that was

7 basically it.

8 MR. JOSHUA: And this conversation

9 about the incident happened at 2S0 Broadway in the

10 Finance Division?

11 12

MS. WRIGHT: Yes it did.

MR. JOSHUA: And do you remember

13 what time the conversation happened?

14 lS 16

MS. WRIGHT:

It was late in the

afternoon.

I don't recall the time.

MR. JOSHUA: Did you have any

17 further communication about the incident?

18 MS. WRIGHT: No.

19 20

MR. JOSHUA: Okay.

So other than

responding that ••••••

should tell Preston

21 Niblack about the incident did you say anything

22

23

24

else to ...... ,?

remember.

MS. WRIGHT: Not that I can

I mean I was really sorry that that

25 happened to her but, you know, again I told her it

S2

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 was not in her control and that if the Council

3 Member had issues that he should speak to the

4 proper people about it, not, you know, direct

5 anything towards us.

6 MR. JOSHUA: And you said that ...

7 _ was crying and that's why you initially

8 spoke to her. Can you just generally describe her

9 demeanor?

10

MS. WRIGHT: Well when I saw her

11 she had appeared as if she had finished crying.

12 Her eyes were very red and she was very flustered-

13

14 15 16

MR. JOSHUA: [Interposing] Okay. MS. WRIGHT: --so I said to her, what's wrong, are you okay. And she

17 began to tell me what took place over in the Red

18 Room at City Hall.

19

MR. JOSHUA: Was--

20

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] She was

21 visibly upset.

22

MR. JOSHUA: She w~s visibly upset.

23

Was anyone with you when you spoke to MS. WRIGHT: No.

-_?

24

2S

MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone around you

53

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 when you spoke to ~

3

MS. WRIGHT: No we were the only

4 ones in the office.

5

6

MR. JOSHUA: At that time.

MS. WRIGHT: Yes. At least that I

7 could see 'cause we were over by my area, my

8 cubicle.

9

MR. JOSHUA: Okay. Did you talk to

10 anyone at the Council about the alleged incident

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

between and Council Member Rodriguez?

MS. WRIGHT:
boss Andy Grossman.
MR. JOSHUA:
mention it to him?
MS. WRIGHT:
that day.
MR. JOSHUA:
Friday June 25th?
MS. WRIGHT:
[vIR. JOSHUA: I mentioned it to my

And when did you

I believe later on

So the day, being

21 And what did you say

22 to him?

23

24

MS. li'7RIGHT:

him that, you know,

I just basically told

-I had s awn ••••

25 when I came back to the office and that she

54

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 appeared upset and I told her--told him, you know,

3

what ••••• told me regarding Council Member

4 Rodriguez.

5

MR. JOSHUA: And how did he

6 respond?

7

8

MS. WRIGHT:

He didn't really have

much to say about it.

He said, you know, she

9 should follow up with Preston about it.

10

MR. JOSHUA:

So do you know where

11 you were when the alleged incident happened?

12

MS. WRIGHT: Apparently I was in

13 the Red Room when it took place but I had my back

14

to her and so I didn't see anything.

I was

15 communicating with Council Member Jackson and

16 Lisa, I don't know her last name, she's from

17 Council Member Mendez' office about the domestic

18

violence initiative.

So I was in the room but I

19 didn't hear what was taking place.

20

21

22

23

24

tVlR. JOSHUA: Have you spoken to
anyone else at the Council?
MS. WRIGHT: No.
MR. JOSHUA: About the incident
with - And have you spoken to any C:)uncil
Member about-- 55

1 2 3 4 5 6

observation of

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] No.

MR. JOSHUA: --the incident. Okay.

Thank you.

MS. WRIGHT: You're welcome.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

I'm opening

7 it up for Committee members, Council Member

Jackson.

8 9

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Good

10 morning Ms. Wright, how are you?

11 12

MS. WRIGHT:

I'm well thank you.

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Good.

13 I've listened to your testimony about the, what

14 you were told occurred and what you witnessed as

15 far as your, your conversation and your

16

And it's obvious that

17 you did not witness the incident, the alleged

18 incident whatsoever is that correct?

19 MS. WRIGHT: Yes that's correct.

20 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And you

21 said that you've worked for the Council since

22 2001.

23

MS. WRIGHT: Yes.

4

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And right

2S now your position is a Senior?

56

1

2

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MS. WRIGHT: A Supervising

3 Legislative Financial Analyst.

4 S 6 7 8

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay

Supervising?

MS. WRIGHT:

Financial Analyst.

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Financial

And _

works in your

Analyst.

Okay.

9 division in your unit?

10

MS. WRIGHT: No she works in my

11 division but in another unit.

12

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. And

13 how would you describe your relationship with her?

14

MS. WRIGHT: We are very close

lS friends.

16

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Close

17 friends?

18 19

MS. WRIGHT: Urn-hum.

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: When you

20 say close friends, as colleagues, do you, do you,

21 are you friends outside of work or only in work?

22 Have you gone to dinner with her? To family

23 outings or what?

24

2S

of work.

MS. WRIGHT: We are friends outside She helped me plan my wedding.

S7

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 3 4

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay.

MS. WRIGHT: So we're very close. COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. And

5 how would you describe her personality?

6

MS. WRIGHT: She's very sweet. She

7 has a very calm demeanor. She's very

8 approachable, professional, honest person.

9

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And as far

10 as her honesty and integrity, in your opinion?

MS. WRIGHT:

I think she's very

11 12 13

honest and she holds herself with high integrity.

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Urn-hum.

14 Have you ever witnessed where she was loud or

15 screaming around the office?

16 MS. WRIGHT: No.

17 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And do you

18 have any knowledge of her having any alleged

19 incidents with any individuals internally as far

20 as staff or with Council Members, anything?

21

MS. WRIGHT: No.

22

COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. No

23 further questions, thank you.

24

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you.

25 Council Member Ignizio.

58

1

2

3

4

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Yes, thank

you.

Sorry, thank you very much.

Pardon me, Jim.

I kicked him on accident.

How was the touching

5 described to you if you may verbatim from .........

6 to you?

7

MS. WRIGHT: IIIIIIIfsaid to me

8 that Council Member Rodriguez approached her, got

9 into her personal space and, you knowr as he was

10 talking to her, used his finger to like point in

11 her throat and tell her how unhappy he was with

12 the way the process was in--the fact that he was

13 not included initiatives that were under his

14 Committee.

15

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Were any

16 descriptive words used in the description of the

17 touch? Forceful, just a poke, a point, something

18 to, something like that?

19

20

22

23

MS. WRIGHT:

She said it was more

of a poke but she said she tried to let it go but

then she could actually feel after she walked away

that, you know, wow he was like touching me.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Yes f:vla' am.

24 In the past in your dealings with Council Members

5 or staff, whatever, have you had any situations

59

1

MS. WRIGHT: And I've never seen or

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 whereby there's been an emotional but not physical

3 response, a Council Member who got angry, walked

4 away, stormed off, you know, is that part of, part

5 of doing business sometimes Council Members get

6 upset and they will vent their frustration and

7 walk away or is this something new that you have

8 just, you know, this is a new thing that you've

9 heard of recently?

10

MS. WRIGHT:

In my experience, this

11 is new. Again I've been with the Council since

12 2001.

13

14

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Right.

15 heard of a Council Member who was verbally

16 disrespectful to any staff member.

17

Council Member IGNIZIO:

Including

18 raising their voice to a member, to a staff

19 member, excuse me.

20

MS. WRIGHT:

Including raising

21 22 2 3

their voice, yes.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Okay thank

you very much.

No further questions.

24

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you so

2S

much.

What Committee are you a Financial Analyst

60

1

MS. WRIGHT:

I cover the Committee

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 to?

3

4 on Juvenile Justice which has oversight over the

5 Department of Juvenile Justice, the Committee on

6 Fire and Criminal Justice Services.

7 8

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Urn-hum.

MS. WRIGHT:

I cover the Department

9 of Probation, the Department of Correction,

10 Indigent Defense and Legal Services as well as the

11 Gov Ops Committee in which I manage the Law

12 Department.

13

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And so over

14 the years you've had occasion to be the messenger,

15 if you will, of delivering to Council Members,

16 cuts and/or enhancements to a budget item.

17 18

MS. WRIGHT:

Yes.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And during

19 the years, since 2001 you've done that--

20

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] Since

21 2005 I've been with Finance--

22 23

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

[Interposing]

Since 2005.

Have you had occasion where any

24 Council Member that you had to deliver news that

25 cut occurred to their budget item, was that, is

61

1

MS. WRIGHT:

Yes oftentimes Council

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 that normally discussed with you? Were cuts--you

3 delivered the message that the cuts occurred but

4 do the Council Members generally discuss with you

5 their dismay or their dislike or their reasons--

6 requesting reasons to you as a Financial Analyst?

7

8 Members do, you know, defer to us because we're

9 the first line of contact and we'll discuss the

10 initiative, you know, whether it's a cut or an

11 enhancement and then I will give that message to

12 my Director, you know, my Assistant--my Deputy

13 Director Andy Grossman who then will relay the

14

message to Preston.

But we do often communicate

15 about the initiatives. Members often want to have

16 more detail about it and such.

17 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: But

18 ultimately where do Council Members, the

19 20 21

discussion has to go.

To get--are you the final--

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] No.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

--are you the

22 decision-maker?

23 24

[vIS. ~]RI GHT:

No I'm not the

decision-maker.

The decision-maker Idould be, you

25 know, my boss Preston Niblack and the Speaker.

62

1

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Council

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you so

3 much.

4

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

I was just

5 going to--

6

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

[Interposing]

7 Council Member Ignizio.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Yes.

8 9

Council Member Ignizio.

I was just going to say

10 in fairness, the Council Member in question lS

11 relatively new, he may not be aware of the

12 protocols on who to, who to speak to in regards to

13 budgetary items.

14 So him speaking to--this is not

15 directed to you, this is more so to the Committee,

16 him speaking to a staff member, you know, asking

17 questions or expressing some dismay in some things

18 that didn't make it is to me potentially fair and

if he didn't know the process that's fine.

It's

19

20 the emotional response and the potential physical

21

that's concerning for me.

I jus t wa n ted to ...

22

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you

23 Council Member.

24

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: All right.

25

63

1

COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:

Thank you.

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Member Palma?

3

4 Thank you Madam Chair. Ms. Wright do you remember

5 when you sat with Council Member Rodriguez to

6 discuss the DOVE initiative if it was before or

7 after he had his interaction with

8

MS. WRIGHT:

I'm not sure but I'm

9 going to say that it had to have been after

10 because when I left the room that's when I saw my

11 boss Andy Grossman and Regina Ryan, you know, and

12

Regina had said to me someone's crying.

So it

13 must have been before.

14

COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:

Okay thank

15 you, no further questions.

16

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Would you

17 speak into the mic?

18

MR. JOSHUA:

Sorry, you said, the

19 last thing you said is that it must have been

20 before the incident?

21

MS. WRIGHT:

I believe so because

22 again I was meeting with Council Member Jackson

23 first.

24

MR. JOSHUA:

Uh-huh.

25

MS. WRIGHT: And we discussed all

64

1

then I have a follow-up question.

If the

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 the items Council Member Jackson, gave his

3 approval and I was exiting or ready to leave the

4 room and Council Member Jackson called me back and

5 said Council Member Rodriguez is there, you can

6

discuss these three items with him.

So I'm

7 thinking during the time that I was talking to

8 Council Member Jackson, this must have taken

9 place.

10

MR. JOSHUA:

so you think your

11 conversation with Council Member Rodriguez

12 happened after the alleged incident which--

13

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] Yes,

14 after.

15

MR. JOSHUA:

--happened.

Thank

16 you.

17

COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA: And, I'm

18 sorry, and your conversation with Council Member

19 Rodriguez took place in the Red Room.

20

MS. WRIGHT:

In the Red Room.

21

COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA: Thank you.

22

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council

23 Member Ignizio.

24

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

I'm sorry,

, r; L J

65

1

little hurried.

But I was more focused--he was a

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 conversation took place after, how would you

3 describe Mr. Rodriguez' demeanor, potentially

4 after the, whatever you would call it,

5 conversation and potential incident with l1li

6 ~

7

MS. WRIGHT:

I'm sorry, repeat the

8 question, I think I understand but.

9

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Sure.

I

10 mean you're saying, your testimony you just said

11 your conversation with Council Member Rodriguez

12 occurred after the potential incident with ....

13 _

14 How would you then describe his

15 demeanor? Was he leaving that, you know, if the

16 testimony is that he was an emotional response,

17 whatever, did he carry that with him to your

18

conversation?

Did you notice any angst, emotion,

19 anger, whatever, we're here discussing, carried

20 out, you know, if you have--if I'm arguing with

21 Jimmy when I turn to go to him, even though I may

22 not mean to carry it with you, you carry that

23

emotion with you.

Did you see any of that?

24

ns . WRI c:;HT :

Again, he seemed a

25

66

1

enough.

Thank you very much.

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 little hurried and maybe a little frustrated but

3 I'm thinking in hindsight after finding out what

4 the incident was that maybe that was partially the

5 reason but again this was my first time

6

interacting with him.

So I was just, you know, In

7 a rush myself to go--not in a rush but going over

8 the initiatives to go up to the Brooklyn

9 delegation.

10

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

So not to

11 put words in your mouth, seemingly you came and

12 whatever questions he had you were going to answer

13

and you were going on your way.

So if he was

14 emotional or not, there was something--

15

MS. WRIGHT:

[Interposing] I was

16 really unable to tell.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Okay, fair

17 18

19 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Are there any

20 other questions from the Committee? All right,

21 seeing none, thank you so much Ms. Wright for

22

coming in this morning.

I want to just remind

23 you, you should not have any discussion with the

24 press, other Council Members, Council Member

5 Rodriguez and/or his attorney or anyone else here

67

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 at the Council other than the Committee attorneys.

3 4 5 6 7 8

MS. WRIGHT: Yes. CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you.

MS. WRIGHT:

Thank you.

[Pause]

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Witness

Danielle Porcaro.

Good morning.

Thank you Ms.

9 Porcaro, would you please give your name, your

10 11 12 13 14 15 16

title and how long you've been employed at the Council?

MS. DANIELLE PORCARO:

[Off mic]

Danielle Porcaro, Community Liaison for over six years.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you for

meeting with us this morning.

You've previously

17 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself

18 concerning and investigation into an allegation of

19 an incident between Council Member Rodriguez and

20 The Committee on Standards and

21 Ethics is holding a hearing today to investigate

22 s allegation further.

23 If you have a prepared statement

24

you may read it into the record.

Do you have such

25 a statement?

68

1 2 3

about the alleged incident.

He may interrupt you

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MS. PORCARO:

[Off mic] No.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: After such

4 statement, Committee Counsel, Nadir Joshua may ask

5 you questions to gather additional information

6

7 if he needs clarification about any of your

8 answers.

9 This is to ensure that the

10 Committee has a full and clear picture of what

11

occurred.

You should let Mr. Joshua know that if

12 you do not understand any question that is asked

13 and of course you are free to stop at any point if

14 you would like to take a break.

15

After Mr. Joshua's questions,

16 Committee members may ask you additional follow-up

17 18

questions.

This hearing is being taped and will

be transcribed.

This investigation is pursuant to

19 Council policy.

20 You are asked to answer truthfully

21

all questions asked of you.

If it is determined

22 that you have been untruthful in your appearance

23 before the Committee, you may be subject to

24::iisciplinary action up to and includinq

5 termination.

69

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 In addition, when you previously

3 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself,

4 you were asked not to share the contents of this

5 incident or the Committee's investigations with

6 any press, any Council Members and/or anyone else

7

employed at the Council.

This prohibition remains

8 in effect. Are you--

9 10 11

[Off mic]

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] I understand.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

--prepared to

12 answer questions? Thank you.

13 14 15

MR. JOSHUA: Hi Danielle. MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] Hi.

MR. JOSHUA: You said that you're a

16 Community Liaison at the Council and you've been

17 18 19 20 21

in that position for six years. other positions at the Council?

Have you held any

MS. PORCARO:

[ 0 f f m i c ] lj'J e 11 I

started off six years ago in the Speaker's--the Council Member Quinn's District Office, her

22 scheduler. And then when she became Speaker I

23 became Community Liaison.

24

MR. JOSHUA: And in

ur position

25 do you have any regular contact with Council

70

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Member Rodriguez?

3 4

MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] No.

MR. JOSHUA: In your position do

5 you have any regular contact with

6 7 8

MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] Yes. MR. JOSHUA: What kind?

MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] I am the

9 Speaker's Arts Liaison so she just works for

10 Finance so we work closely during the budget and

11 not during budget times on

12

MR. JOSHUA:

I'm not sure that your

13 mic is on, you're loud enough but I'm not sure

14 that your mic is on, would you just press the

15 back, up a little I think. Yeah, it's--yeah,

16 there you go.

17 18 19 20

MS. PORCARO: Hello. Oh there you

go.

MR. JOSHUA: Thank you.

MS. PORCARO:

[Laughing] I'm just

21 very loud.

22

t1R. JOSHUA: So you work VIi th _

23 IIIIIIpretty regularly.

24

25

MS. PORCARO: Yes.

MR. JOSHUA: And how long have you

71

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 worked with her?

3 MS. PORCARO: I think around two

4 years she started her, doing in

5 6

Finance.

I think it was about two years ago.

MR. JOSHUA: Okay.

7 identified you as a person she spoke with about

8 the alleged incident with Council Member

9 Rodriguez. I'm just going to ask you some

10 questions about that.

11 12

MS. PORCARO: Sure.

MR. JOSHUA: When did you first

13 learn of the alleged incident?

14

MS. PORCARO:

I was on the Finance

15 Division floor that day, later in the afternoon

16 and another colleague Pakhi told me of the

17 incident.

18

MR. JOSHUA: What is Pakhi's last

19 name?

20

MS. PORCARO: What is her last

21 name ... Pakhi. What's her last name?

22

MR. JOSHUA: Sengupta?
t1S. PORCP.,RO: Sengupta, yeah.
t1R. JOSHUA: So--
MS. PORCi\RO: [ Ln t e r po s i nq ] Sorry 23

24

25

72

1

So Pakhi

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Pakhi.

3

MR. JOSHUA:

--what did Ms.

4 Sengupta tell you?

5 MS. PORCARO: She just said that a

6 Council Member got close to he was

7 screaming in her face and pointing at her.

MR. JOSHUA: She said?

MS. PORCARO: Council Member

8 9 10

Rodriguez got--was yelling at ••••

11 knows that and I are close so I asked--I

12 don't know, I think I asked Pakhi how'_' s

13 doing, whatever, in this budget process and she

14 said oh she got yelled at today and a Council

15 Member Rodriguez was pointing at her, over an

16 incident of funding or something.

17

MR. JOSHUA: And where did that

18 conversation--that conversation took place in the

19 Finance Division.

20 21

MS. PORCARO: Correct.

MR. JOSHUA: And you were there

22 talking to Pakhi generally?

23

MS. PORCARO:

Yeah, just chit-

24 chattinq.

25

t1R. JOSHUA:

And Pakhi initiated

73

1

MR. JOSHUA: --to your question,

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 the conversation--initiated the information--

3

MS. PORCARO:

[ Interposing]

4 Correct, correct.

MR. JOSHUA: Sharing what happened

5 6 7 8 9

with--

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing]

Correct.

MR. JOSHUA: --Council Member

10 Rodriguez, what had allegedly happened. When did

you speak to about the incident?

11 12

MS. PORCARO:

Later that day I saw

13 her on my way out of 250 Broadway and I said oh I

14 heard what happened are you okay, what's going on.

15 And that sort of--and she just said that she had,

16 you know, I said did you tell anyone what happened

17 so she said she told the Speaker and I was like

18 great and, you know, gave her a hug and said have

19 a--basically have a great weekend. And it was a

20 Friday I believe and so.

21

MR. JOSHUA: Okay I just want to

22 return, I'm sorry--

t1S. PORCARO:

[Interposing] Ye a h .

23 24

25 your conversation with Pakhi.

74

1 2 3

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MS. PORCARO: Yeah.

MR. JOSHUA: So Pakhi told you that

4 the Council Member allegedly yelled at and poked

5 or pointed--

6 7 8 9

10

11 horrible. How could that happen? That sort of

12 deal, is she okay. What's going on?

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing]
Pointed, poked.
MR. JOSHUA: --at How
did you respond to that?
MS. PORCARO: Oh my god. That's 13

MR. JOSHUA: And in between the

14 time where you spoke with Ms. Sengupta and you

15

spoke with

did you speak to anyone else

16 about the incident?

17

MS. PORCARO: No.

I mean it was a

18 short period of time between that, yeah.

19 20 21

MR. JOSHUA: So when you met with •••• wha t exactly did she tell you?

tvlS. PORCARO:

I said oh I heard

22 what happened. You know, she said, yeah, you

23

know, he yelled in my face.

I--she said he poked

24 right here, in that area, at her ...

25

tvlR. JOSHUA: Could you just

75

1

MS. PORCARO: And I think that was,

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 describe that? So we could--

3 4

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] Like-MR. JOSHUA: --demonstrate it on

S the record--

6 7

MS. PORCARO: --poked--yeah.

MR. JOSHUA: --so the record should

8 indicate that Ms. Porcaro is poking in an area

9 between her throat and upper chest.

10

11 you know, she was kind of just, you know, I think

12 was just tired from the budget and everything and

13 she was just kind of, you know, we didn't talk too

14 long, I just gave her a hug and said, you know, I

lS hope you don't have to work a lot this weekend.

16 That was it.

17 We didn't talk about it too long.

18 It was more of just like a I can't believe it

19 happened, are you okay. And she did say that she

20

told the Speaker.

Because I said did you tell

21 someone what's going on and she said I told the

22 Speaker. And that was it--

23

tv18.. JOSHUA:

[Interposing] So who

24 initiated the conversation?

25

r1S. PORCARO:

With •

I:ii d .

76

10

11

1

MR. JOSHUA: And so then you had a

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 I said I heard what happened.

3

MR. JOSHUA: And where was the

4 conver--where did the conversation--

5

MS. PORCARO:

[Interposing] In

6 front of 250 Broadway.

7

MR. JOSHUA: And you said I heard

8 what happened and then did she describe what

9 happened?

MS. PORCARO: Yeah.

MR. JOSHUA: And what exactly did

12 she tell you.

13

MS. PORCARO: That's when she said

14 oh he yelled at me and he was pointing right here.

15 And got close to her and whatnot.

16

MR. JOSHUA: And you responded

17 that? What exactly?

18

MS. PORCARO: Oh my god are you

19 okay--

20

21

23

MR. JOSHUA: [Interposing] Okay.

MS. PORCARO: --I can't believe

that happened.

It's horrible.

24 conversation that entailed what? I just want to

25 know, so to the best of your recollection what

77

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 exactly was said between the two of you.

MS. PORCARO:

It's kind of hard to

3 4

remember.

I mean I think it was just like

5 surprise, you know, she just kind of being like

6

done with the budget.

It was like towards the

7 end. And then I think the rest of the

8 conversation entailed about are you working this

9 weekend, you know, I hope you can get out--it was

10 a Friday at like 7:00 o'clock, I think or 6:00

11 12 13 14 15 16

o'clock or so, so I was like oh I hope you can

leave soon.

I think the conversation just went

to budget talk.

Yeah.

MR. JOSHOA: And then how did the

conversation end?

MS. PORCARO:

Just, you know, I

17 think I gave her a hug or whatever and, you know,

18 said have a good weekend.

19 20

MR. JOSHOA: And In that

••• told you that she'd already

conversation

21 reported the incident to the Speaker.

22

MS. PORCARO:

IVlR. JOS HOA:

Correct.

23

Okay.

Did she tell

4 you anything else?

25

MS. PORCARO:

No but then she

78

on

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 called me on Monday and told me that it was being

3 reported to the General Counsel's Office so to not

4 speak about it, which I hadn't at that point.

5

MR. JOSHUA:

So can you describe

6 's demeanor when she told you about the

7 incident?

8 MS. PORCARO: She's a pretty kind

9 of calm demeanored, you know, she doesn't really

10 get loud or agitated. And it was sort of just

11 kind of like kind of tired and this is what

12

happened.

It wasn't anger.

It was just sort of

13 like this happened to me kind of complacent, you

14

know, nothing--she wasn't angry.

She was just

15 kind of calm if I remember correctly.

16

MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone with you

17 when you spoke to

18

MS. PORCARO:

There were people

19 around but the conversation was just between the

20 two of us.

21

23

24

MR. JOSHUA: And so who was around?

MS. PORCARO:

It's hard to

remember.

I believe there was--I was--I believe I

was

ing out for dinner with some colleagues.

25 I believe it was, shou d I say names?

79

So

1

MR. JOSHUA:

So have you had any

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 3

MR. JOSHUA: Yes.

MS. PORCARO: Danielle Castaldi-

4 Micca who's one of my colleagues in outreach, Kate

5 Seely Kirk who works in the Speaker's District

6 Office, I believe was there. Maybe Brian Footer

7 who works the Speaker's scheduling, scheduler.

8 Again they were like--it was kind

9 of like a bunch of people waiting to get to the

10 subway and she happened to walk up and we had like

11

an aside.

So they were there but I don't know if-

12 -I don't believe they--I mean they didn't--I don't

13 believe they heard our conversation.

MR. JOSHUA: And did you talk to any of them about the incident?

14 15 16

MS. PORCARO: No.

I mean since

17 then people have been talking about it but no, not

then, no.

No.

18 19

MR. JOSHUA:

Since then people have

20 been talking to you about it?

21

MS. PORCi\RO:

Not to me

22 specifically but generally speaking, you know,

23 it's been a topic of conversation like what's

24 going on, what happened, what--you know.

25

80

1

MS. PORCARO: No.

MR. JOSHUA: Any Council Members? MS. PORCARO: No.

MR. JOSHUA: Council employees? MS. PORCARO: Well I had it--I was

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 conversations with anyone at the Council about it?

3 4 5 6 7

8 supposed to staff the Speaker today and I had to

9 tell someone I couldn't and loosely explained why

10 and they cut me off and I told Casey the

11 12 13

scheduler--

MR. JOSHUA:

[Interposing] Right.

MS. PORCARO: --I told him I

14 couldn't staff her and I said I have to be here

15 for a hearing and he was like uh, and then he just

16 stopped me so.

17

MR. JOSHUA: Okay. And aside from

18 that conversation have you spoken to any--

19 20

21

22

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] No. MR. JOSHUA: --any other--

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] No.

MR. JOSHUA: --staff members.

So

23 where were you when the alleged incident happened?

24 [Pause]

2 5

MR. JOSHUA:

If you know.

81

1 2 3

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

MS. PORCARO:

I can check my

schedule but I'm sure just at 250 Broadway.

I was

4 not at City Hall that day.

5 6 7 8 9

10 11 12 13

MR. JOSHUA: So you did not

witness--
MS. PORCARO:
MR. JOSHUA:
MS. PORCARO:
MR. JOSHUA:
you since spoken to

MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] No---the alleged--

--no.

--incident. And have about the incident? No.

MR. JOSHUA: So other than the

14 conversation on--there was a conversation you said

15 that she had with you on Monday about--

16

MS. PORCARO:

[ Interposing]

17 Telling--yes, saying that it's been at the General

18 Counsel and then we have not talked about that

19 since.

20

MR. JOSHUA: And in that

21 conversation she told you that you were not to

22 speak to anyone else.

23

24

25

MS. PORCARO: Correct.

MR. JOSHUA: Okay.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council

82

1

MS. PORCARO:

[Interposing] Oh

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 Member Ignizio.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Hi Ms.

3 4 5

Porcaro.

How would you describe the word--how

would you describe from her words .e ••••• ' s

6 words to you regarding the touch? What word did

7 she use to describe what allegedly occurred?

8

MS. PORCARO:

I don't remember the

9 words really as much as she was just saying that

10 he got close to her--I guess he said, you know,

11 got close in her face and yelled at her and then

12 poked in this general region.

13

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: And that

14 was Ms.--because from my perspective your

15 conversation with Pakhi is not germane at all.

16 I'm only concerned--

17

18 right.

19

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

--about

20

your conversation with

Did she

21 describe a poke or did she use any word like yell

22 or poke or what descriptive words did she use

23 before--

24

JV1S. PORCAFO:

[ Inte

s i riq ] It's

25

hard to--I'm sorry.

I'm having a hard time

83

1 2

remembering.

I might have--in like I might have

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

3 said to her--

4 [Crosstalk]

5 COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

6 [Interposing] If you don't--if you don't remember

7 don't say it--

8

MS. PORCARO: --I don't remember.

9 I don't remember. Yeah--

10

11 saying--

12

13

14

IS

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: --I'm just

MS. PORCARO: --I don't remember. COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Okay.

MS. PORCARO:

- - was saying that.

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:

Fair

16 enough. And historically in your years in the

17 Council, how long have you been with the Council?

18

MS. PORCARO: A little over six

19 years.

20

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Have you

21 heard of or been involved in any situations where

22 Council Members either yelled or poked or

23 potentially inappropriately touched a staff

24 member?

2 5

MS. PORCARO: No.

84

1 2

COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Okay.

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

3 Thank you very much. No further questions.

4 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council

5 Member Palma?

6

COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:

I don't have

7 any questions at this time. Nadir asked his last

8 two questions were the ones that I wanted to ask.

9 Thank you.

10 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Does the

11 Committee have any other questions? Then thank

12 you.

13 14 15

MS. PORCARO: Thank you. [Pause]

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Mr. Joshua,

16 will Ms. Pakhi Sengupta.

17 MR. JOSHUA: She'll be coming in.

18 Yeah she's here.

19

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Yeah, come on

20 in. Good morning. Would you please (jive us your ...

21 see how to turn on the mic?

22

fiR. .JOSHUA:

It's in the back.

23

MS. PAKHI SENGUPTA: Hello? CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Would you

24

25 please give us your full name, your title and how

85

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 long you've been with the Council?

3 4

MS. SENGUPTA:

Pakhi Sengupta,

Senior Legislative Financial Analyst.

I've been

5 here since April 2007.

6 7 8

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: April 2007?

MS. SENGUPTA:

Yeah.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you for

9 meeting with us today. You previously met with

10 Council Member Palma, Council Member Oddo and

11 myself concerning an investigation into an

12 allegation of an incident between Council Member

13

Rodriguez and

The Committee on

14 Standards and Ethics is holding a hearing today to

15 16 17

investigate ••••••

allegation further.

If you have a prepared statement

you may read it into the record.

After such

18 statement, Committee Counsel Nadir Joshua may ask

19 you questions to gather additional information

20

about the alleged incident.

You may--he may

21 interrupt you if he needs clarification about any

22 of your answers.

23 This is to ensure that the

24 Committee has a full and clear picture of what

25

happened.

You should let Mr. Joshua know if you

86

1

pursuant to Council policy.

You are asked to

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 do not understand any of the questions he has

3 asked and of course you are free to stop at any

4 point if you would like a break. After Mr.

5 Joshua's questions, Committee members may ask you

6 additional follow up questions.

7 This hearing is being taped and

will be transcribed.

This investigation is

8 9

10 answer truthfully all questions asked of you. If

11 it is determined that you have been untruthful in

12 your appearance before the Committee, you may be

13 subject to disciplinary action up to and including

14 termination.

15 In addition, when you previously

16 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself,

17 you were asked not to share the contents of this

18 incident or the Committee's investigations with

19 any press, any Council Members, or anyone employed

20

at the Council.

That prohibition remains in

21

effect.

Do you have a statement?

22 23

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I do not.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Mr. Joshua,

24 please?

25

NADIR JOSHUA:

Hi, Ms. Sengupta.

87

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 You said that you've been with the Council Slnce

3 April 2007. Have you held any other positions at

4 the Council?

5 6 7 8 9

10 11 12

PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.

NADIR JOSHUA: In your position, do

you have any regular contact with Council Member
Rodriguez?'
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Sometimes, yes.
NADIR JOSHUA: Can you describe
what kind of contact you have with him? PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I staff the budget

13 negotiating team. So any matters regarding the

14 budget, if there are issues that come up that he's

15 involved with. But I've had pretty limited

16 interaction with him.

17

NADIR JOSHUA: And how would you

18 describe those interactions?

19

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

Fine, perfectly

20 normal, professional.

21

22 up?

23

24

NADIR JOSHUA: Can you just speak

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.

Sorry.

NADI R ,JOSHUl,,:

In any of those

25 interactions, has he ever been agitated towards

88

10 11 12

1

PAKHI SENGUPTA: She's my colleague

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 you?

3

4

PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.

NADIR JOSHUA: Generally, how would

5 you describe his demeanor?

6

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

Fine,

7 professional.

8

NADIR JOSHUA: Professional, okay.

9 In your position, do you have regular contact with

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.

NADIR JOSHUA: What kind of contact

13 do you have with her?

14

15 in the Finance Division. We collaborate, as all

16 Finance staff do, to provide information for the

17 budge negotiating team and for members throughout

18 the year during and throughout the budget process

19 and then also for other budgetary needs that come

20 up throughout the year.

21

NADIR JOSHUA: So you work with her

22 on a daily basis?

23

PAKHI SENGUPT,/\:

I mean she

Yes.

24 s e r v e s on .t i f f e r en t ommittees than 1.::10.

25

NADIR JOSHUA: Right.

89

1

remember.

I mean I know that it was

ring the

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2

PAKHI SENGUPTA: But the

3 responsibilities that we all have within the

4 division, I mean, she and I share and collaborate

5 on those things.

6

NADIR JOSHUA: Would you describe

7 your relationship as just colleagues or also

8 friends outside of work?

9

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Both colleague and

10 friend.

11

NADIR JOSHUA: Okay. So

12 identified you as a person that she spoke with

13 about the alleged incident with Council Member

14

Rodriguez.

I'm just going to ask you some

15 questions about that.

16

17

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Sure.

NADIR JOSHUA: When did you first

18 learn of the alleged incident?

19

PAKHI SENGUPTA: About half an hour

20 after it happened. About 20 minutes to half an

21 hour after it happened.

22

NADIR JOSHUA: Can you just say for

23 the record when that was?

24

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I honestly don't

90

1

2

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

day.

I really don't remember.

I know we had been

3 here for so many hours at that point that I

4

5

honestly don't remember.

But it was midday.

NADIR JOSHUA: Okay.

Then we'll

6 just stipulate for the record that it was Friday,

7

8

June 25th.

How did you learn of the incident?

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

How did I learn of

9 the incident?

10

11

NADIR JOSHUA: Yes.

PAKHI SENGUPTA: She told me.

12 _ told me.

13

14

NADIR JOSHUA: _ told you.

What did •••••• say when she told you about the

15 incident?

16

17

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

She came to me,

she was very upset.

I was actually speaking about

18 a different incident with another coworker who I

19

20

was frustrated with.

She seemed really agitated.

I asked her what was wrong.

She started to cry.

21 She said that there was an issue with Council

22

Member Rodriguez.

Basically she said that she was

23 pulled aside by him and was asked very harshly and

24 rudely why he wasn't told of a cut to I believe

the Dorn i n ic a n a

Puerto Rican Studies Institute

91

1

NADIR JOSHUA: And when she

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 within the budget since some decisions were made

3

as to certain cuts.

So she said that he was very

4 angry and that he was very uncomfortably close to

5

her, close to her face.

And took his forefinger

6 and put it on her, at the upper part of her chest,

7

close to her neck and pressed down.

She said that

8 she felt intimidated and very, very uncomfortable.

9 It was at that point I told her that she really

10 does need to tell someone.

11

NADIR JOSHUA:

So when she

12 described the incident to you, she said that he

13 used his forefinger and pressed down?

14

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.

15

NADIR JOSHUA: Just for the record,

16 are you paraphrasing, or is that her exact

17 description?

18

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I'm paraphrasing.

19 I don't know exactly what she said, but it was

20 that.

21

NADIR JOSHUA:

Did she demonstrate

22 it for you or did she just tell you?

Yes, she did.

She

23

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

24 demonstrated it on me.

92

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 demonstrated, she just used one finger?

3

PAKHI SENGUPTA: She used one

4 finger and pressed down on my chest close to my

5 neck, like so.

6

NADIR JOSHUA: Just for the record,

7 Ms. Sengupta is pressing down on her chest close

8 to her neck, and she only used one finger. You

was upset and agitated when she

9

said that

10 was telling you the story.

11

PAKHI SENGUPTA: And crying.

12 NADIR JOSHUA: And crying. So this

13 conversation took place where exactly?

14

PAKHI SENGUPTA: At my cubicle on

15 the 15th Floor.

16 17 18

NADIR JOSHUA: At 250 Broadway? PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes. At 250

Broadway.

19 NADIR JOSHUA: Did you initiate the

20 conversation or did she initiate the conversation?

21

22

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I believe she came

by.

I was talking and then she initiated the

23 conversation about this inci nt.

24

25

NADIR JOSHUA: Did you have any

further--I'm sorry.

You responded that

93

1

[Pause]

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 should report the incident to someone?

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yeah.

NADIR JOSHUA: Why did you say

3 4

5 tha t?

6

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Because she was

7 clearly agitated and if what he did was true, it's

8 extremely and unbelievably inappropriate and

9 unprofessional.

10

NADIR JOSHUA: I'm sorry, I'm just

11 going to pause for one second.

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Sure.

NADIR JOSHUA: Do we need to stop

12 13 14 15

the tape?

16 NADIR JOSHUA: Did you have any

17 other communication with about the

18 incident?

19

COUNCIL MEMBER KOSLOWITZ: There's

20 music playing.

21

22

23

MALE VOICE: Excuse me, I'm sorry? COUNCIL MEMBER KOSLOWITZ: Music. MALE VOICE: Somebody has it

24 p La y i n q ,

25

Ni\DIR ,JOSHUA:

I think maybe that's

94

1 2 3

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you.

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

been resolved.

I don't hear it anymore.

4 I'm sorry.

5 NADIR JOSHUA: I'm sorry.

6 PAKHI SENGUPTA: That's okay.

7 NADIR JOSHUA: Did you have any

8 further communication with about the

9 incident?

10

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

Yes.

She said

11 that she reported to the general counsel's office

12

or the Standards and Ethics Committee.

I don't

13 which is the appropriate.

14

NADIR JOSHUA: When did this second

IS conversation take place?

16

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Again, I really

17 don't remember exactly, but it was that day maybe

18

about an hour or two hours later.

I believe it

19 was probably an hour.

20

NADIR JOSHUA: Where did that

21 conversation take place?

22 23

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

The same place, at She came to me and

my cubicle on the 15th Floor.

24

she said I reported this.

We can't have any other

25

conversations about this.

Please don't tell

95

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 anyone else. That since it's being investigated

3 don't talk to anyone about it. But she did me and

4 I said good.

5 6

NADIR JOSHUA: You said that you

should report the

responded that

7 incident. Did you respond in any other way when

8 -'told you about it?

9 10 11

12 else to ••••

13

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I was really

angry.

I'm not sure what you mean.

NADIR JOSHUA: Did you say anything

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yeah, I mean I may

14 have said some things out of anger just about the-

15 16 17 18 19 20 21

NADIR JOSHUA: [interposing] The
incident?
PAKHI SENGUPTA: The incident,
yeah.
NADIR JOSHUA: Okay. Was anyone
around when you spoke with
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No. I'm sorry, 22 there may have been people on the floor. There

23 wasn't anyone around my cubicle.

24

NADIR JOSHUA: So now one else

25 participated in the conversation?

96

1

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.

NADIR JOSHUA: With whom? PAKHI SENGUPTA: I spoke with

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 3

PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.

NADIR JOSHUA: Did you talk to

4 anyone at the Council about the alleged incident?

5 6 7

8 Danielle Porcaro and Kate Celikirk [phonetic] who

9 came by literally minutes after I had the

10 conversation with her. She had not reported the

11 incident as of yet. All of this happened in

12 probably a span of ten minutes. But I was livid.

13 I was really angry and upset and they just

14 happened to come by and see me and ask what was

IS wrong and I told them.

16 NADIR JOSHUA: And you spoke with

17 both Ms. Porcaro and Ms. Celikirk?

18 PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.

19

NADIR JOSHUA: What did you say to

20 them?

21

PAKHI SENGUPTA: Exactly what I

22 just said to you as far as what happened to

23 r I said that _ was really upset and

24

that she had been crying.

I just said that,

u

25 know, we've been working for hours and hours and

97

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 hours and we're all just exhausted and we're

3 trying to do the best that we can. And this is

4 really inappropriate and appalling.

6 respond?

7

5

NADIR JOSHUA:

How did they

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

They were angry,

8 disgusted and, you know, just kind of shared my

9 view, I guess.

10

NADIR JOSHUA:

So do you know where

11 you were when the alleged incident occurred?

12

PAKHI SENGUPTA:

I don't know,

13 because I don't know what time it happened, but I

14 was either at City Hall in another part of City

15 16 17

Hall or I was on the 15th Floor.

There's only two

places I could have been.

But I don't know where

I was.

The other thing that we also discussed was

18 that the matter could have been brought up to

19 absolutely anyone, including and up to the Speaker

20 as far as if Council Member Rodriguez had an issue

21

22 23 24

with not being told about a cut.

He could have

spoken to other members.

He could have spoken to

the Speaker.

He could have spoken to Ramon

Martinez, Chuck Meara, anyone.

So part of what we

2S discussed when we talked about it was we didn't

98

1

COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS

2 understand why it was taken out on a staff member

3 who has the least amount of power in making

4 decisions about what cuts are corning down the

5 pike, or how to tell members as to what cuts are

6 corning down the pike.

7

NADIR JOSHUA:

So, have you spoken

8 to anyone else at the Council about the alleged

9 incident?

10 11

PAKHI SENGUPTA: No . .......,

NADIR JOSHUA: To 3 • right.

12 Have you spoken to the Council Member about the

13 alleged incident?

14 15 16 17

PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.

NADIR JOSHUA: Okay, that's all. PAKHI SENGUPTA: Okay, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:

Thank you.

18 The conversations that you described with_

19 and I believe you said Danielle Porcaro, these

20 occurred prior to your having met with committee

21 members, where we asked that you not--

22

P}\KHI SENGUPTA:

[ interposing]

23

Right. And it was prior to

even filing a

24

I mean, this happened in the span of

report.

25 f i v e , ten minutes.

99

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